"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002249728285be824c66a85aac587c08c920\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 14 NOVEMBER 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d5205330ce3a458cbb355ffe119da197\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 14 NOVEMBER 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022092dec2e3d4b44ae927e474452da4116\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e4b247a91c4d43baa8b10258843ffe49\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u00225d77f2b3cd5b4759b4a8433e98a06e59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d77f2b3cd5b4759b4a8433e98a06e59\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Assistant Speaker):\u003C/span\u003E E te Atua kaha rawa, ka tuku whakamoemiti atu m\u0101tou, m\u014D ng\u0101 karakia kua waihotia mai ki runga i a m\u0101tou. Ka waiho i \u014D m\u0101tou p\u0101nga whaiaro katoa ki te taha. Ka mihi m\u0101tou ki te K\u012Bngi, me te inoi atu m\u014D te \u0101rahitanga i roto i \u014D m\u0101tou whakaaroarohanga, kia m\u014Dhio ai, kia whakaiti ai t\u0101 m\u0101tou whakahaere i ng\u0101 take o te Whare nei, m\u014D te oranga, te maung\u0101rongo, me te aroha o Aotearoa. \u0100mene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E[Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom and humility for the welfare, peace, and compassion of New Zealand. Amen.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002255ae4a19db8f4870a4c8cabe750c9ef9\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Rulings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221089b86fe8384d339626dfd40a9312bf\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u2014Form of Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u002283b1ed9ce6d74b979ed2305bf6def8de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283b1ed9ce6d74b979ed2305bf6def8de\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, yesterday when I suggested to a member that she find another way of asking a question, I did not intend to suggest that members cannot ask the same question more than once. Parties have a limited number of oral questions allocated to them. If they wish to use that allocation asking the same question, there are certainly no restrictions to doing so. Speaker\u2019s ruling\u00A0186/4 makes that clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b0b62d41633440c2adcf4c0eb616e5cd\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022735c4288b8834b49a2864d4757a759e5\u0022\u003ECanada\u2014Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022c630824d200e451b8c094ba7412f7da7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c630824d200e451b8c094ba7412f7da7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure members would wish to welcome Kate Reid, who is a member of the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories of Canada and is present in the gallery this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222091076442ea4e4c99760307417145e2\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225bb38a57b4ad4a538217c3ccf7982855\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022 data-id=\u002225ca360c818b4867805c6853e60d52b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225ca360c818b4867805c6853e60d52b4\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Next week, the House will\u00A0consider the committee stages of the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products Amendment Bill (No 2) and the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill. There will be extended hours on Wednesday morning for Government business and the afternoon will be a member\u2019s day. On Thursday at 5.45 p.m., there will be Benjamin Doyle\u2019s maiden speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5b13eb0cbdd48b79c5920963d7b4959\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5b13eb0cbdd48b79c5920963d7b4959\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Does the Government intend to have any other contentious legislation lined up for when the Prime Minister isn\u2019t here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7c08edd369b406e80c86202f4cd9c76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7c08edd369b406e80c86202f4cd9c76\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Well, we\u2019ve got a very busy agenda, as that member knows.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002206cd5aacb3014ef7955074de1bfd6589\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c1419d9f564541efb956f3c8098410a4\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u00224a45303545a040fd80d47b076ddfe3e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a45303545a040fd80d47b076ddfe3e5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Two petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00227ae25fdc3375409eb797e4d0927e2ee9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ae25fdc3375409eb797e4d0927e2ee9\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EPetition of Greenpeace requesting that the House reverse the decision to amend the Hauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana Marine Protection Bill to open protected areas of Hauraki Gulf to commercial fishing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Epetition of Forest \u0026amp; Bird requesting that the House stop work on the proposed amendment to the Hauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana Marine Protection Bill that would allow commercial fishing in high protection areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u00220aa173eaa8b847419b8334e4d0e9effc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220aa173eaa8b847419b8334e4d0e9effc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those petitions stand referred to the Petitions Committee. Ministers have delivered two papers for the Clerk to present.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00225163e2e37c0b4aba9e96a1a463a69734\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225163e2e37c0b4aba9e96a1a463a69734\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: 2024 annual reports of New Zealand Growth Capital Partners Ltd and Research and Education Advanced Network New Zealand Ltd.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u002231112b5e761443bb8a299955b84d1c87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231112b5e761443bb8a299955b84d1c87\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, I present the report of the Controller and Auditor-General entitled Immigration New Zealand: Managing how it makes decisions about skilled residence visas. Those papers are published under the authority of the House. No select committee papers have been reported. The Clerk has been informed of the introduction of two bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022eff23de0006945be842f02335394f4e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eff23de0006945be842f02335394f4e7\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ECrimes (Countering Foreign Interference) Amendment Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EDisputes Tribunal Amendment Bill, introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca1e7886581f4a9b98c2b811b7b9e125\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca1e7886581f4a9b98c2b811b7b9e125\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those bills are set down for first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002251f564e17b314fdaae0a3aaa0453d584\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cadf6e2ee2c94e86b39aae5180c6eb90\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002230c759e06b474075bee24262c9e7a099\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Social Investment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290f442a79aea4ce0aeae083763135935\u0022 data-id=\u002220e6c9660e62489583d1de44bd91ce98\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290f442a79aea4ce0aeae083763135935\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220e6c9660e62489583d1de44bd91ce98\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Investment: What recent reports has she seen on progress in social investment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022 data-id=\u00229e3bb013ce2546adba67806cf8e5610f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e3bb013ce2546adba67806cf8e5610f\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister for Social Investment):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, I announced an important step in the Government\u2019s implementation of social investment. That is the new Social Investment Board, chaired by former Treasury Secretary Dr Graham Scott, and made up of highly skilled people with a diverse range of expertise and known to many members of this House. They are Laura Black, the Hon Te Ururoa Flavell, Helen Leahy, Katie Murray, Julie Nelson, Debbie Sorenson, Mike Williams, and David Woods. I met with the board earlier today, and I know it will make a valuable contribution to bringing about better outcomes for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290f442a79aea4ce0aeae083763135935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f6bfa90a9cb46948eaa44a013785a5f\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: What is social investment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286292d2d3ea24087855cd441443d244c\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Social investment is about funding, delivering, and measuring the impact of social services in a way that ensures better results for the most vulnerable New Zealanders. Despite decades of good intentions, multiple strategies, and thousands of contracts, Government efforts have not had the impact required. Social investment is more than simply delivering better value for money; it is about improving people\u2019s lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290f442a79aea4ce0aeae083763135935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276c55014a9f045919ff332609c53575b\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: How will social investment be implemented?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c4b197ce7574440a326984c0232340c\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Social investment will only come to life by the Government working closely together with others. That means drawing together grassroots providers, iwi, experts, and others, and empowering providers to do what works. I\u2019m delighted that Andrew Coster has this week taken up his role as chief executive of the Social Investment Agency. He has the skills and experience to foster those partnerships. Work has already begun to create a social investment fund, create a new way to commission social services, and, most importantly, to identify investments that will make a difference to the lives of the most vulnerable New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290f442a79aea4ce0aeae083763135935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255e9745d5d1346adb2abfd314015365e\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: What other progress is being made in implementing social investment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cd82a72936f4b63b64921d743c7339b\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Tomorrow, I will attend a social investment hui in Lower Hutt, bringing together more than 100 people who work, lead, and support the delivery of social services in New Zealand. There will be grassroots providers at the hui with deep experience and knowledge. There will be iwi representatives, experts, philanthropists, Public Service leaders, and others with an interest in getting better results for our most vulnerable. The hui will discuss how we collectively push ahead with social investment. I\u2019m looking forward to those discussions, and, more importantly, I\u2019m looking forward to getting on with delivering solutions for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae286eb9e81341289846de9905d63e50\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: What analysis has she reviewed on the social investment implications of repealing section 7AA, disestablishing Te Aka Whai Ora, cutting front-line Oranga Tamariki social workers, and the social division caused by rewriting the Treaty of Waitangi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022057f6f4303c040a0af2b4c214a3d0afb\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Part of that question illustrates part of the problem, which is that the idea of creating a new bureaucracy in the form of the M\u0101ori health commission\u2014a\u00A0view that that would somehow help a M\u0101ori child in Kait\u0101ia. What I would put to you is that we have to get away from the idea that creating new structures for Government is the way of getting better results for people. In fact, it\u2019s my view that we should devolve more power and responsibility to those closest to those we wish to help. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246101e360a0f4131a9a546384816c8cd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I just made the point at the start of question time that a general barrage like that is not acceptable. Rare and reasonable interjection is the accepted norm in the House, but it does have to be more rare and more reasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225c383cad3a4740869829919629ecade2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022 data-id=\u00223e04609ebf9142bd83b447175419f6ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e04609ebf9142bd83b447175419f6ee\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all the Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022 data-id=\u0022b81cc291c03548109236d409dff870c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b81cc291c03548109236d409dff870c8\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: Speaking on behalf of the Prime Minister, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203497d4389f0462d9e6a57954c96f96d\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement that the Treaty principles bill is a \u201Cdisservice\u201D to the Treaty; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bb53a5b2bb5487082119b2a35b70e4b\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I stand by all my statements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022321377bb0a124996b8a193f8fc580ac4\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: What did he mean when he said the bill is \u201Cdivisive\u201D; and how does it reflect upon the Prime Minister that he is willing to introduce legislation he describes in those terms to secure a coalition?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ccabdfc9ae941ab88cd7bf6eebcefb7\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking on behalf of the Prime Minister, the Government in its coalition agreement has agreed to support this bill to the select committee process, and we are doing so. The National Party has indicated it will not support this bill becoming law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cd4cac1fc9545f9b79788e40cfcba9f\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Treaty principles bill \u201Cvery simplistic\u201D, as he described it this morning, and does he acknowledge the complex and detrimental effects it is having on Crown-M\u0101ori relations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed1285dba8d7469c8f33d6a15595a37a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we believe in equal citizenship and equal opportunity for all New Zealanders, but we do not believe that this bill is the way to achieve that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5ea0ca42f924df28b10c9e1dc6bc286\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with 42 King\u2019s Counsel that the Treaty principles bill and the intended referendum on the implementation of the bill is \u201Cwholly inappropriate\u201D as a way of addressing such an \u201Cimportant and complex constitutional issue\u201D; if not, why\u00A0not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1166b7588514656944dad0c27115c4c\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking on behalf of the Prime Minister, and as has been traversed in this House many times, it is not the intention of the National Party to support this bill becoming law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2ee061e281c4336bd53860d3de78414\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that the bill is disturbing even the business community, with a director telling the Mood of the Boardroom survey last month that \u201C[Mr Seymour\u2019s] divisive approach needs to end; this is not the Kiwi way\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e569ff5e48f04c88b7e6bb79e3d77945\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: As we have set out, it is a bill that is required through a coalition agreement to be supported to a select committee. What I have said before is that I do not think\u00A0it makes sense or will be enduring for Parliament to simply set down its interpretation of the Treaty and then seek a majority of the public to confirm it in a referendum. That is a crude way to handle a very delicate subject.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ea0242e075e44cc869b95d1ae7c750e\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: What does it say about his leadership when his soon-to-be Deputy Prime Minister accused him of being \u201Cclearly nervous\u201D about the bill and the National Party of being \u201Cafraid of taking on hard issues\u201D, with him doing nothing to dissuade the public of that notion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022604b139a8eae42a8afb71fa0246014ed\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, of course, David Seymour is responsible for his own statements. In this case, they are wholly incorrect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ae2afbc48144f05be43bc95c367acfd\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. The Prime Minister is responsible for comments made by Ministers, even those Ministers speaking on behalf of the Prime Minister in this capacity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225551eb8deefa4e9ba9546aae72086618\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That might be true, and if that is the case, then the person acting for the Prime Minister in this case saying that Ministers are responsible for their own statements is an answer to the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022070b1a77cfea4170a4dd9ea73360b8f9\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. With respect, sir, if the Prime Minister gave that answer, then, as you have in the past, you have agreed that they are responsible for comments made by their Ministers. A Minister speaking on behalf of the Prime Minister\u2014and for the purposes of the Hansard it\u2019s considered to be the Prime Minister\u2019s words\u2014surely shouldn\u2019t be able to provide a different answer to that expected of the Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccfc8eed8b0641f8a0488c7e4959aae6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m not requiring that. I just made the point that the Minister acting for the Prime Minister specified the Minister who had made the statements was the leader of another party and said he is responsible for his own statements. I don\u2019t think that\u2019s anything other than an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022736b8b027736439499e1f129edcf2203\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268d0756896a4448480edbcc04dff329d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what is it\u2014supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e21a9c948d9742c281b0e4fa8d007b88\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: No, I was going to offer some assistance to the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d4b617f1b9346f3a7397b3953111047\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. I think we\u2019re right here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226129aa376f9d4ae6a701856e82a8f5e4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022 data-id=\u00229abe6c511133417794d5d9a32bf0e563\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229abe6c511133417794d5d9a32bf0e563\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: E tautoko ana ia i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero me ng\u0101 mahi katoa a t\u014Dna K\u0101wanatanga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E[Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022 data-id=\u0022df48d9a150354ce5846afc174e88de41\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df48d9a150354ce5846afc174e88de41\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: Speaking on behalf of the Prime Minister, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7a4b6cbf4304aa590929fa831e32326\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister stand by his statement both yesterday and earlier today that the Treaty principles bill is \u201Cdivisive\u201D, and, if so, does he take personal responsibility for the division currently amplifying across this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022016ed45df7044d5ea4a8933da2152c3e\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking on behalf of the Prime Minister, I stand by my statements in the context in which they are given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b290720acd248fea0caf06aea07f68a\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister take personal responsibility for the division that the Treaty principles bill is causing across this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223156d6f22e1241ed87b5b0da437370e6\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: What I take responsibility for is the coalition agreement which I am honouring by supporting the first reading of the Treaty principles bill. As I have made clear in this House on several occasions, we in the National Party will not support it becoming law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a99342becdb4db297ceb5acc2c354ee\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister have the constitutional power to block National Party MPs from voting with their conscience on the Treaty principles bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7e89b648c7e4efebeeacf54c56e55b9\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: The member is confecting things that haven\u2019t occurred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cdc482d2d0843999e2a577a4a0b1606\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister there saying that members of the National Party are free to vote with their conscience this afternoon on the Treaty principles bill? [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f93cb903a9c40df858e530050fd435b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is to be the last outburst from the gallery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262736072a1574ef1a9abc5a71a559f1a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: The vote this afternoon will be a party vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225578f66bf78145069543a7d4cace7618\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Are we to take from that that the Prime Minister is blocking his MPs from exercising their conscience on one of the most significant constitutional votes that has come before this House in living memory?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e136c029870491dbdeb9e09bdb42652\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking on behalf of the Prime Minister, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220bdf2cbc243d4f519ed290e0013ac437\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022 data-id=\u0022cbde0ba80b2a4084b227bb95145d9bf8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cbde0ba80b2a4084b227bb95145d9bf8\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What recent announcements has he made on the K\u0101piti Expressway speed limit? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022 data-id=\u0022cdc0b68241284e78abe5594ba065a908\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cdc0b68241284e78abe5594ba065a908\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Good news for K\u0101piti: on Monday, I announced that the speed limit on the Mackays to Peka Peka and Peka Peka to \u014Ctaki sections of the K\u0101piti Expressway would increase to 110 kilometres per hour from yesterday. [Interruption] This road of national significance, built by the previous National Government, was designed to a safety standard suitable for 110 kilometres per hour. Enabling these types\u00A0of expressway to have speed limits of 110 kilometres per hour is part of our Government\u2019s plan to get New Zealand moving again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe9fec8a03c241168cec6cf424de475b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And that needs to be a much more muted response to a question that pretty much everyone in the House knows the answer to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2d36168009f471aac5fe7bbd63ccdad\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: What support has he seen for having a 110-kilometre-per-hour speed limit on the K\u0101piti Expressway road of national significance? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022008e952bcfd247ef8f7c5be8b7c6c975\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, a lot of support. In April, I announced that the New Zealand Transport Agency was consulting on the new 110-kilometre-per-hour speed limit on the K\u0101piti Expressway road of national significance. The results are in: 93\u00A0percent of the 3,313 submissions received supported the new 110-kilometre-per-hour speed limit, and this has now been delivered for those travelling through K\u0101piti. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221013eb30db6a46b4898d70bf71bdbf47\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has the Minister seen on the safety benefits of the K\u0101piti Expressway road of national significance? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022634326611f0c46f98749403f4f45628c\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Incredible safety benefits. The K\u0101piti Expressway, started by the previous National Government, was designed and constructed to a high safety standard. Since this expressway opened, no one has died in a crash, and there has been a 70\u00A0percent reduction in road deaths in the K\u0101piti Coast District. Our Government is committed to delivering safe, and new roads of national significance across the country to enable people and freight to get where they need to go quickly and safely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022004137bc47fe4220ad62f4edff3a3e99\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: What other roads of national significance are currently proposed to have a 110-kilometre-per-hour speed limit? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f746ca57662048398a38d997c8fda5ca\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Good news: there are currently proposed speed limit increases to 110\u00A0kilometres per hour between \u014Crewa and Warkworth, and on the Christchurch Southern Motorway road of national significance to reduce travel times for those travelling on these routes. The roads of national significance are some of New Zealand\u2019s best highways that are unlocking economic growth and improving safety. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221628542b69924d4caa02f6f7f00939ca\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014M\u0101ori Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022 data-id=\u0022501e54966d53429d9c7fd921abbc17b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022501e54966d53429d9c7fd921abbc17b1\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for M\u0101ori Development: Does he stand by his statement, \u201CTe Tiriti o Waitangi is foundational to our country\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9184879287542c7997362602f21cc5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9184879287542c7997362602f21cc5a\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E \u0100na\u2014yes. Te Tiriti o Waitangi\u2014the Treaty of Waitangi\u2014is foundational for our country, past, present, and future. Whilst there are other important documents, like the Magna Carta 1215, the National Party recognises that the Treaty is fundamental in our constitution by stating recognition of the Treaty of Waitangi as the foundational document of New Zealand as one of our 10 party values.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac758eeed3524490bfe782ee4e65e932\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: If Te Tiriti is foundational to our country, why is his Government allowing the Treaty principles bill to proceed when all the evidence shows that the bill will discriminate against M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b008b1dcff0d45fca61984530cffa01a\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: First, I want to acknowledge that there\u2019s significant opposition to this bill. Second, National supports the process to take this bill through first reading to select committee. This was the output from negotiating coalition Governments in an MMP environment. However, as you know, National\u2019s focus is to rebuild the economy, reset law and order, and deliver better public services. This bill does not strengthen that focus. As a result, we will not support this bill beyond select committee and will vote it down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205e0b5d081d94ab7a5cea5d4e45f7888\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, can I\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288a40e8b9f1749b88bb1d062beb92c2f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just wait till the House gathers itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f98d10bb5f944aa4a5f5140d9bec5025\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Has the Minister read the Cabinet Manual, which provides a framework for policy formation and decision making and recognises the Treaty as a major source of the constitution which accords special recognition to M\u0101ori rights and interests, and, if not, when does he plan to read it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e80414bcf2f448cf8d0164468e87a685\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: I have read that manual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213778c99e793478a96d14575b5652dd2\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he choose to appoint former ACT Party leader Richard Prebble to the Waitangi Tribunal ahead of the brilliant Dr Hana O\u2019Regan and our foremost broadcaster Derek Fox\u2014why was that appointment made given that Mr Prebble has actively advocated against the tribunal and also said that he thinks there should be a Treaty principles debate, which he is on record as saying?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0b5728d4f5f4b97b1d6885b66b3dfb5\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: A number of members from across our communities are appointed to different boards, such as the former Labour Party president Mike Williams being appointed to the Social Investment Board. As a former Minister of various Labour Governments and someone who is well acquainted with the machinations of this House, Richard Prebble is an appropriate person to be appointed to the tribunal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228034bf63e41149658c68577eba48cf63\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister for M\u0101ori Development stand there and look our people in the eye and tell them that he is an advocate for M\u0101ori rights when he has done nothing to stop the Treaty principles bill proceeding?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e4c34a4f0c140fbbbfbd8d9ec1ea4d4\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: The member presumes what happens in caucus and Cabinet and various other places where I advocate for various matters, and I think that is very presumptuous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ecdcd8993534aa2adbdaffcfc3c5a41\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Can I say to the Minister, what will it take before\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ceafe6d930b4f34ae32e1b97fb53940\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Wait on\u2014wait on. Your own side\u2019s making a lot of noise. So let\u2019s just all get quiet for questions, which are asked in silence. When you\u2019re ready, Mr Jackson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228313f3b0ed2a4b7683bf5acfb61f6ab5\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. What will it take before this Minister actually does something, or has he given up because\u2014and I will quote him\u2014he\u2019s \u201Cway down \u2026 the food chain\u201D and has no influence at all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba0db34347b84350ad198e772d628583\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: As we\u2019re aware, National will not vote for this bill beyond select committee. Our long-held position is that a referendum on the Treaty would be divisive. It is unrealistic for that member, who was part of a former Government that saw an increase of unemployment across M\u0101ori by over 30\u00A0percent, to come and give me a lecture on tikanga or anything else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230df70acdb154600820dcf9054e0ac9f\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e51e3cc3b091410d902aab79b90e1734\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and it will be heard in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6481f4dfb4d475188cf02b8f9bfed64\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. The question was pretty clear and direct there; I don\u2019t think he got anywhere near it. It was asking him when he would do anything or had he given up because he\u2019s well-known, and he\u2019s given the quote\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f35dd76a2ca4d5aa513cc656157e927\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, hang on\u2014OK, you\u2019ve made your point. I think the Minister would probably want to say something in addition to what he has already said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c46c37d21bdb4ddba759b751ff18394c\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: As people are aware, in my caucus in this House, my quest is to help achieve equal citizenship and equality of opportunity that your tupuna T\u0101 Apirana Ngata wrote about a century ago and that many of our kaum\u0101tua went to battlefields across the world to fight for. The equality of opportunity that I fight for was left well short by people like the other member who\u2019s barracking right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb472d8468f44b8fb4380ca88d99928a\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014Mr Speaker, point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf0409d80fa24b66a9594e2aca4b27c6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, I haven\u2019t called you. I haven\u2019t called the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b80a0dfc5b394b08a501da3bff55f494\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sorry, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252c102cc854f47e7a08129d303d1d0d1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is the last outburst that the House is to have today. Otherwise, if we do that again, we\u2019ll be hearing the balance of question time\u2014questions and answers\u2014in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1a216790f7d4043abb7a6e5dfa9ef5c\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, point of order. I still don\u2019t believe the Minister has got anywhere near answering the question, because I\u2019m asking a specific question\u2014what will he actually do?\u2014and he goes waffling off about the army and t\u016Bpuna and ancestors. What will this Minister actually do for his people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a4119096cf44332bbeacfc35a310278\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1e81bf546a24b2fb88a96540d179897\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014or has he given up because he has no influence in terms of Cabinet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d4ae85f1ad64ec898344b93bc811ff6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s enough\u2014that is enough. The member clearly wasn\u2019t listening to the answer; I was, and he started by saying what his entire focus as a Minister is. I think that is more than enough to answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226367138d60484ffba6fab120c75a84ac\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022 data-id=\u0022062d9fb708614c22bd0ef64f24705c05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022062d9fb708614c22bd0ef64f24705c05\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (National\u2014Napier)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Transport: What recent announcement has the Government made regarding funding support to strengthen front-line volunteer service organisations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022 data-id=\u00223274687d684e4a599620d8b18b17e06c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223274687d684e4a599620d8b18b17e06c\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY (Associate Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E More good news. Last month, the very hard-working Minister of Transport and I announced a $23.1\u00A0million funding package over four years to boost critical front-line volunteer services. Heading outside for a day of fun is part of the Kiwi life, I\u2019m sure you\u2019ll agree, Mr Speaker, particularly as we head into the busy summer season. However, with that comes risk. That is why our Government is making this investment so we can better equip and prepare organisations to continue saving lives, communities, and livelihoods when faced with emergency situations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f9e9475cfd149948672d8067c33ccda\u0022\u003EKatie Nimon\u003C/span\u003E: What organisations are set to benefit from this announcement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022596c66a0e33e44de9902ab2f1092210a\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, good question. More good news. Surf Lifesaving New Zealand will receive $14.6\u00A0million over four years. Coastguard New Zealand will receive $3.1\u00A0million. These two front-line agencies provide critical water safety services for Kiwis, and their services are delivered almost entirely by volunteers. Let\u2019s have a big shout-out for our hard-working volunteers in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a234030489b4a6289df85fbd6ccaeb6\u0022\u003EKatie Nimon\u003C/span\u003E: What will these funds be used for?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274b69084a70c4be99fbd7e02a7578b56\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, another good question. Surf Lifesaving will use this funding to repair and replace Surf Lifesaving assets that were damaged in the 2023 North Island weather events, including a replacement for the Surf Lifesaving Club at Bethells Beach and repairs to the Mangawhai Heads club that was damaged following a landslide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d080c2b9ede4406b8c6c6ecda8d43fbd\u0022\u003EKatie Nimon\u003C/span\u003E: What other actions has the Government taken to support front-line volunteer service organisations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edb85f80d33849e0a25437a580dd37e9\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what we have here is a Government that\u2019s focused on reducing wasteful spending so we can reinvest that into critical front-line services. So that\u2019s why you see in this funding package an addition to early investment that the Government announced for Coastguard and Surf Lifesaving New Zealand. Through Budget 2024, Coastguard and Surf Lifesaving received a funding boost of $63.644\u00A0million over four years to keep Kiwis safe in, on, and around the water.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002229fa010cfc7742e7a4d7e617bbbe9a46\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Small Business and Manufacturing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022 data-id=\u0022f486518efe3647bbaded20f80c022287\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f486518efe3647bbaded20f80c022287\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing: What recent steps has the Government taken to improve payment times for small businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227b3ebe24438640afbed0da464f9b88bc\u0022 data-id=\u0022c796a3ad6b6c469f9341c60133023c3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b3ebe24438640afbed0da464f9b88bc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c796a3ad6b6c469f9341c60133023c3e\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY (Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing):\u003C/span\u003E My colleague the Hon Melissa Lee and I recently announced that the Government is committed to supporting faster payments for small businesses, especially given that the Government spends over $50\u00A0billion annually with its suppliers. From 1 January 2025, the Government\u2019s 135 agencies will be required to pay small businesses much more promptly, providing these\u00A0businesses with the timely cash flow they need to grow and succeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d225fa92c8de4170a0a9d85176880f0c\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: What is the time line for implementing faster payment requirements for Government agencies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b3ebe24438640afbed0da464f9b88bc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228215b68d6e3a48db847285a1c8b9c7c3\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: From 1 January next year, the 135 agencies must pay 90\u00A0percent of trade invoices within 10 business days, increasing to 95\u00A0percent in 2026. Secondly, as part of the Government\u2019s focus on encouraging greater digitisation of the economy, from 2026, Government agencies processing over 2,000 domestic invoices annually must use e-invoicing, ensuring payment within five working days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9dd683c0ed74d96996c725ee88c484f\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: What steps will the Government take to ensure compliance with these payment rules?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b3ebe24438640afbed0da464f9b88bc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296f1ff30625047689ddcc39efef047c0\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: To ensure compliance, we will require Government agencies to report their payment results quarterly. These results will be published on the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment website. This will allow anyone to check the compliance of relevant Government departments. These agencies will also have to report why they have failed to meet the payment requirements and front up to their respective Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222194f343aa8947e2b569106faca12a6c\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: How will these new rules impact the day-to-day operations of small businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b3ebe24438640afbed0da464f9b88bc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228831ebf6e8d945b08c516815a1f67a2d\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: These rules are set to make a substantial difference. We know that for small businesses, cash flow is critical, and waiting extended periods for payment can hinder growth or even threaten survival. By mandating shorter payment times, we\u2019re providing business owners with the resources they need to invest in their operations, whether it\u2019s hiring more staff, upgrading equipment, or expanding services. This is all part of the Government\u2019s support for small businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022963d54d7cdf14d91b284b4e68af02eb1\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014M\u0101ori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc22bdfaf1904a999020d7dc2b534ae7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc22bdfaf1904a999020d7dc2b534ae7\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for M\u0101ori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti: Does he stand by his answer to oral question No. 11 on 7\u00A0November 2024 that \u201CThere are a number of matters that have strengthened the M\u0101ori-Crown relationship\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022 data-id=\u0022675315ab777e4d3685d6bd46562e4d42\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022675315ab777e4d3685d6bd46562e4d42\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister for M\u0101ori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti):\u003C/span\u003E I stand by this answer, and, as mentioned, people like Minister Goldsmith are prioritising outstanding Treaty settlements in the vein of previous Ministers for Treaty of Waitangi negotiations. Minister Willis has continued to support M\u0101ori back pockets through tax cuts, resulting in hundreds of millions of dollars staying with wh\u0101nau. Of course, we are expediting purely settlement delivery matters, like the payment of $25\u00A0million to Kurahaup\u014D iwi last week for the failure to deliver the airport to them. Constructive relationships do require work. There is a lot more mahi to do no matter who is the K\u0101wanatanga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd51f535ff0f4b8a87534b064020d36e\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: What does he say to Ngati Toa leader Helmut Modlik, who described his answers last week as \u201Cso dishonest, duplicitous, and dishonourable\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d532a8d89ae04abb854697e20ddd7e62\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Matua Helmut. I know you are pono. I know you are genuine, and I know you carry the international responsibilities of our people of Ng\u0101ti Toa Rangatira, and thank you for your tautoko of Te Kahu o Te Raukura here today and every day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272275e273d444806b6eb1a4c6b1f573c\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Treaty principles bill one of the matters the Minister has referred to that has strengthened the M\u0101ori-Crown relationship?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223abeb56120654f04aaa05ab3f792413f\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: As we\u2019re aware and as I\u2019ve mentioned today, the bill is the result of a coalition arrangement between the National Party and the ACT Party in order to get a stable Government in an MMP environment. But, as you know and I know, our view from the National Party is that this bill is too blunt, is too simplistic, that it fails to address equal citizenship and equality of opportunity for iwi members, M\u0101ori, and all New Zealanders, and that our quest is to ensure equal citizenship and equality of opportunity for\u00A0M\u0101ori and for everyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c15375450c094a7a8a97b92c68814444\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Should the Treaty principles bill be voted down, will he commit to ensuring that every Minister directs their agencies to uphold their Te Tiriti o Waitangi obligations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f376e1a6e05e4c7fbc37899a1ba3ec32\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: National will vote this bill down at its second reading, and it is absolutely clear to us that the Treaty responsibilities and obligations, whether they come from a settlement arrangement or otherwise, need to be upheld and pursued by agencies across this Government and future Governments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227baeecf900c24980b354a1b6c286d8ad\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Who is correct: the Prime Minister, who says the Treaty principles bill is \u201Cdivisive\u201D; or David Seymour, who says the bill is not divisive, and what does he think that these divided opinions mean for the M\u0101ori-Crown relationship?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223687a8ea3a824ba9bcdf18afa653c9c9\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: I stand by the Prime Minister\u2019s comments and say this: the Treaty of Waitangi\u2014Te Tiriti o Waitangi\u2014can be and should be and will be a force for kotahitanga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ea78963b5f745aca2759f2bce8e1ed9\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Will he commit to, after his vote is registered as in support of the Treaty principles bill, fronting up to the h\u012Bkoi on the forecourt of Parliament on Tuesday and explaining his decision?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbaeef24159949118c33da8c79cda263\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: E te M\u0101ngai, e mihi ana ki t\u0113r\u0101 p\u0101tai. Me te mea nei kei te tautoko au i te anga whakamua o t\u014D m\u0101tou Pirimia, t\u014D tatou Pirimia, me te mea nei ko te tumanako ka taea e au te k\u014Drero, te noho, w\u0101nga enei kaupapa me te tira haere e haere mai nei.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E[Mr Speaker, I\u2019d like to acknowledge that question. And to say, I am supporting the future aspirations of my Prime Minister, of our Prime Minster, in the hope that I can speak, sit, and discuss this bill with the right people.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293cfafedbde74635afffa4dee8d79c0b\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: On the forecourt? He didn\u2019t answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc461f4782ef437d976902633935ff6a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes he did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e8b8e2541afb479a969aa9aeb8b44d85\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014M\u0101ori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022 data-id=\u00229c4b04e8b6a144b69f0ef47eb432085e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c4b04e8b6a144b69f0ef47eb432085e\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for M\u0101ori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti: Does he consider that the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill threatens the continued existence of the M\u0101ori-Crown relationship?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022 data-id=\u0022a226f8b7b2b14749a5e42481b0a0ab29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a226f8b7b2b14749a5e42481b0a0ab29\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister for M\u0101ori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai, e mihi ana ki te p\u0101tai. [Mr Speaker, I acknowledge that question.] First, I wanted to acknowledge that there is significant opposition to this bill across many communities\u2014tangata M\u0101ori, tangata Tiriti, tangata Pasifika. Second, in response to the question, this bill cannot and will not wipe out the responsibilities of rangatiratanga and K\u0101wanatanga, along with the quest to achieve equal citizenship and equality of opportunity. National supports the process to take this bill through to select committee. That was the output from negotiating the coalition Government; however, as you know, National will not support this bill beyond select committee and will vote it down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266c6e46672da477189c803c5a87b7701\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: What message is the Minister sending to te iwi M\u0101ori and ng\u0101 mokopuna in the gallery today that it is OK to compromise the mana o Te Tiriti?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7a47d6eca5c4462afa02a4090d68566\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: As we know, and as I\u2019ve discussed today, we have taken this matter forward as a result of negotiating a coalition arrangement, in light of an MMP environment and to ensure that it wasn\u2019t left for other parties to create an unstable situation. However, what I can also add and say is that, please mauria mai \u014D p\u016Bkana, \u014D arero, \u014D tet\u0113, t\u014D ihi t\u014D wehi t\u014D wana [bring your bulging eyes, your protruding tongue, your clinging teeth, your fearlessness, your power, and your prowess] to the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223328ff5c5a0f4db393fa5748402a1ae9\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: How can you be a Minister of this Government and allow the Treaty principles bill to viciously attack your people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228120a0eb62704141b9141d4ca518ceba\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Look, reword that question. The Minister is not doing anything of the sort, and the question should not be as personally directed as that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7cf5d4a1abd4660a2feef89f3ad0eaa\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Ka pai. How can you be a Minister of this Government and allow the Treaty principles bill to viciously attack te iwi M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220afc3909dc684708951a6f6043c637ad\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. She\u2019s referring to you, Mr Speaker, and I think\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221399ec5855ae41f28fc129ddd4dc0bba\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Can\u2019t hear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022774bffdfd4cf41cd886adc8a27bf0b6c\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry. The member is saying \u201Cyou\u201D in the question, which, in this instance, is referring to you as the Speaker, and I would suggest that again she should be rewording that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022127031ee3aa24dfab4c39170cea2dae6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, look, I\u2019ve taken a much more liberal approach to members using the term \u201Cyou\u201D. In the strictest sense, that is referring to the Chair, but I think that everyone knows it is a question directed to the Minister. I certainly didn\u2019t for a minute think that the member was accusing me of attacking anybody, but if I\u2019m wrong, she should tell me and I can take some action. Just ask the question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296ddb6b2606a4e0a837fd4109c067a6b\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: How can he be a Minister of this Government and allow the Treaty principles bill to viciously attack te iwi M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7c455164e8b46349da2f6decdbfd331\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a basic rule in this House that questions cannot have assertions in them, and that is an assertion, which is not correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296108cf534ea4fb3be0a2dd5177808cd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I would immediately point out to the Minister that answers can\u2019t have assertions in them either, and, well, if you want to go down that track, it will become a very sterile House. I think, given the circumstances, the way in which the Minister is handling these questions, it\u2019s not an unreasonable one to ask him to answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0b27945666e4ece930e0e9a95503c1b\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: I can acknowledge that there is genuine hurt and pain across many communities as a result of this bill, but what I will say is\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e44661e5758e4f5bae180cdbd7cf9795\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s it. Silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227346aaec910e484c9a7de0f21b6057eb\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Ka mate t\u0113nei pire \u0101 te whakamutunga o te k\u014Dmiti arohaehae.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E[This bill will be revoked at the end of the committee process.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d55e075dcf94828a55e7804aafb9c21\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Minister use the position to fight for te iwi M\u0101ori if there is a referendum?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bce247a249ad4234a0ccf12d027fc2e0\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: As we\u2019ve said many times, whilst the National Party is a part of this coalition Government, we will vote down the proposed Treaty principles bill immediately after the select committee and at the second reading. That is what we will do, and I can repeat it as many times as you like in this Whare this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db30108182d942eda9e629d7051d5e94\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, please, Mr Speaker. The question was specific. You may think otherwise, but the question specifically asked what role or how the Minister would use the role to fight for te iwi M\u0101ori if the referendum got through. There is an assumption that it won\u2019t get through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de7922ce7a674bf78a404d41db73bcb3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, yes, I know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a833d33125d40809fb10587b0e146ff\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: So the question was really targeted\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb801ee6269d4e929253262e9da99aef\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The assumption was that the bill would pass. The Minister answered, saying it\u2019s not going to pass, which nullifies the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cc1d960d7560432c96e740a091006e03\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022 data-id=\u002271174bc3ccf34f0cbbc74358ae3d2473\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271174bc3ccf34f0cbbc74358ae3d2473\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Does he have confidence that the Government is upholding the rule of law and Aotearoa\u2019s constitutional arrangements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022 data-id=\u002225b98333dc0a4cc08e6f42b57e644fb5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225b98333dc0a4cc08e6f42b57e644fb5\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. The Government is committed to upholding the rule of law and New Zealand\u2019s constitutional arrangements. I\u2019m also confident that our constitutional arrangements have the strength to withstand unhelpful comments, such as those by that member\u2019s party leader that we have \u201CA criminal justice system that we all know only serves to produce more harm, more crime, and more victims\u201D, which is a slap in the face for the tens of thousands of Kiwis who work every day in the justice system to keep our communities safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249a23d5b6659457fa8292badc4c7d99f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I\u2019ll just point out that some of the Minister\u2019s own answers there were somewhat incongruous with his concern about the questions asked earlier in the day. Tamatha Paul\u2014sorry to interrupt you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba91097c51094b34ab8aa0a99d25b8b7\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: Thanks, Mr Speaker. How is it consistent with upholding our constitutional arrangements for the Government to, in the words of the most senior legal counsel in our country, \u201Cunilaterally [change] the meaning of te Tiriti\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5334adfd4804e8f91e055f6e66404f7\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member opposite doesn\u2019t seem to understand the processes of the Parliament\u2014that would only happen if a law was passed and it did indeed do what the member claims. We won\u2019t be passing it, and it doesn\u2019t even do what the member suggests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fca0e527f0884079b467c23094ae04fb\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: What would be the effect of the Government proceeding with a bill that 40 King\u2019s Counsel say would \u201Ccause significant legal confusion and uncertainty, inevitably resulting in protracted litigation and cost.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022069f711c7a4b41b1a378e7479ca82ce6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no disrespect to the opinion of the learned King\u2019s Counsel, but that is also a supposition. I\u2019m not sure that the Minister is responsible for answering such a supposition. Please ask another question without loss of that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b852d0bbb2ad415dbe521849e8555010\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the open letter to the Government from 40 King\u2019s Counsel stating that the Treaty principles bill seeks to \u201Crewrite the Treaty itself.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022663da74704b34161a81aaa3a0808adb8\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Look, the very nature of the law is that there is a wide variety of opinions, and lawyers always argue over every piece of legislation. They\u2019re perfectly entitled to their views, and they\u2019ll have an opportunity, no doubt, to discuss them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d24887fbca647d8968ee13cb8e3e731\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: Has the open letter signed by the most senior legal counsel in this country given him pause for reflection or concern at all as the Minister responsible for the rule of law, constitutional arrangements, and protecting our democracy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239acc6156a2a4191a1c4d0a7d5f35c94\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m always pausing and I\u2019m always reflecting, but I won\u2019t be taking lectures on the rule of law from that party, which has the view\u2014it\u2019s campaigned on removing welfare sanctions on people who are on the run. I mean, I know it\u2019s expensive to be on the run, but I don\u2019t think that strengthens the rule of law in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3191535d83c4203a1e3f8f4f66686ef\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: Will he heed the call of these 40 King\u2019s Counsel and the Waitangi Tribunal and the tens of thousands of people currently in the h\u012Bkoi across the nation to \u201Cact responsibly now and abandon the Bill.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022993bde67070a47dc888170ef7a74c16c\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m always willing to listen to the views of all New Zealanders, and the Government is also committed to its coalition agreements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a840741503b4399b38f74a16eaa6d91\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: What exactly triggers the Minister about my statements that the criminal justice system currently creates more victims, more crime, and more harm; and has he considered changing the Ministry of Justice\u2019s website and the statistics on that, which make these points demonstrably clear?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfd49ebdbe13439c86ed9d4133b34adf\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: What triggers me is the fact that there are tens of thousands of New Zealanders working in the justice system that that member characterised in that way, and those people are doing their very best to keep this community safe. That member would do better to support them in their efforts to keep New Zealanders safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ffd4393688fd4d33b3341d100de2b294\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022 data-id=\u0022031e83441fa249c2a8bf7f3fa18ff57b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022031e83441fa249c2a8bf7f3fa18ff57b\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Is she committed to the purpose of the Education and Training Act 2020 that establishes and regulates an education system that \u201Chonours Te Tiriti o Waitangi and supports M\u0101ori-Crown relationships\u201D; if so, how?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1c15fda015a46e69cd30ff1269029e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1c15fda015a46e69cd30ff1269029e6\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Absolutely. As I have said many times, raising achievement and closing the equity gap is at the heart of everything that we do. For M\u0101ori students in mainstream education, the outcomes are of great concern to me. Regular school attendance rates are 39.1\u00A0percent, 12\u00A0percent of M\u0101ori students at the end of year 8 are at curriculum for maths, over a third of rangatahi M\u0101ori left without NCEA level\u00A02 last year. Everyone has a part to play\u2014parents, iwi, M\u0101ori leaders, schools, the Crown, and both sides of this House. This Government\u2019s relentless focus on lifting attendance and achievement of tamariki M\u0101ori is an utterly essential way in which we must collectively honour the Treaty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae517e057d8c4f648834c95b2762da58\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: What does tino rangatiratanga in article 2 of Te Tiriti o Waitangi mean for M\u0101ori education?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289205d3d72a647ce95af39273595b06f\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Charter schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5cfa050f8934a189d46a23b61e52dfb\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there was a comment to my right that mentioned charter schools. It is also this Government\u2019s commitment to kaupapa M\u0101ori education\u2014[Interruption] In answer to the question, this Government is about choice in education. We are massive supporters of kaupapa M\u0101ori education, as evidenced by my support for Te R\u016Bnanga nui o ng\u0101 Kura Kaupapa M\u0101ori o Aotearoa and Ng\u0101 Kura \u0101 Iwi o Aotearoa, who I meet with regularly and have an excellent relationship with, and I\u2019m rebuilding that relationship. It\u2019s evident in the fact that we have also set aside $100\u00A0million for kura kaupapa property because of the state of their buildings. It\u2019s evident in the fact that everything that we\u00A0have done in structured literacy and maths in the mainstream, we have also provided in te reo M\u0101ori for rumaki and for kura kaupapa as well. We have delivered the world\u2019s first structured literacy phonics checks in te reo M\u0101ori because we are supportive of choice in education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eed77612024e453fa50ea22344d20bfa\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I appreciate the Minister\u2019s answer, but I was actually asking the Minister what tino rangatiratanga in article 2 of Te Tiriti o Waitangi means for M\u0101ori education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288763a78304247d796f6131396f9aef1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I would have thought that the long list of initiatives listed by the Minister is a satisfactory answer to the question; perhaps not the one the member wanted. Is there another supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de96e02950e84d9b8d97577fbee0d079\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: How can she say that she is honouring Te Tiriti o Waitangi when national education leaders including Te Akatea, NZEI Te Riu Roa, New Zealand Principals\u2019 Federation, New Zealand Post Primary Teachers Association, Teaching Council of Aotearoa New Zealand, and others have said, \u201CAs a group of national education organisations, we are united in our opposition to the Treaty principles bill.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265fedbba8ce14c3786800a923262ad93\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: All of those organisations are also extraordinarily concerned about the achievement of our tamariki and rangatahi M\u0101ori. Every single one of those educational groups has talked about the fact that things like 66\u00A0percent of the young people in alternative education are our rangatahi M\u0101ori, because we are utterly failing them. This is a Government that is putting educational outcomes and the achievement of young M\u0101ori at the heart of everything we do so that they can go on to live the life that they want.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022658932b7969549b8aea1ab33cf4ddea6\u0022\u003EHon Tama Potaka\u003C/span\u003E: How does her approach to Te Marautanga o Aotearoa give further effect to the Education and Training Act requirement to honour Te Tiriti o Waitangi\u2014the Treaty of Waitangi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dd1a2c5e1e94c16b5b1943b4ddb8e18\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m proud to be supporting te reo M\u0101ori in line with article\u00A02 of the Treaty through a refresh of Te Marautanga o Aotearoa. This Government is refreshing Te Marautanga o Aotearoa to be a knowledge-rich, year-by-year curriculum in te reo M\u0101ori; launching Rangaranga Reo \u0101-T\u0101, which is a structured literacy programme teaching reading, writing, and k\u014Drero; providing free decodable books for the first time; and, as I mentioned, that world-first phonics check. These tools and resources have been developed with M\u0101ori education leaders and sector groups, demonstrating my commitment to M\u0101ori-Crown relationships and to raising M\u0101ori achievement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ceb7e63e05f84a9b89ba4d03d5624b21\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Would this Government consider abandoning charter schools supported by the Iwi Chairs Forum at the behest of the predominately P\u0101keh\u0101 teacher unions, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbbfef3b75714ae38244e8ca3b6aa842\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely not. There are many M\u0101ori groups and excellent M\u0101ori educators around this country who are very excited at the prospect of running their own school and having self-determination in their own educational settings, and we support that because we know the outcomes are excellent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9f8e0874381445bb7840c79d0587493\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: How is she honouring Te Tiriti o Waitangi and supporting M\u0101ori-Crown relationships when she is whitewashing the curriculum by removing Te Tiriti o Waitangi from the curriculum framework, Te M\u0101taiaho, and scrapping the group of experts contributing te ao M\u0101ori knowledge to science?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b22ae2b694c4079b84f8a3876a17716\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK\u2014just a minute. Think about the question you\u2019ve just asked\u2014some of the concerns that have been expressed in the House, from both sides, I might say, about the use of various descriptors that are in the nature of an opinion. Ask the question again, without that descriptor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227941ba3458bd46f593740ce411c46e5f\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: How is she honouring Te Tiriti o Waitangi and supporting M\u0101ori-Crown relationships when she is mainstreaming the curriculum by removing Te Tiriti o Waitangi from the curriculum framework, Te M\u0101taiaho, and scrapping the group of experts contributing te ao M\u0101ori knowledge to the science curriculum?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b7201f1011f4b068d7d91888a29779e\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: There have only been two parts of the curriculum that have been released, English and maths, and also in P\u0101ngarau as well. Now, the full curriculum with all of the details has yet to be released. So that member\u2019s assertion that things have been taken out is not true, because we haven\u2019t released the full document yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f6a061eb7204ab599d3e8331879c066\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: How is rebalancing Aotearoa histories in school curriculum honouring Te Tiriti o Waitangi and supporting M\u0101ori-Crown relationships?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221811691e6a044cf88146b16970306a52\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s an excellent question. One of the problems that the Education Review Office determined in their report into the New Zealand histories curriculum was that there wasn\u2019t enough of our national history being taught. There wasn\u2019t enough consistency in the curriculum. For example, there are certain\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9969e7b977c4f43928ec64d0f5067c6\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Too much M\u0101ori!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9f377fc840a49799462f77828cd26ad\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: That member should listen, because this is quite important. There are certain things like the M\u0101ori Land Wars, and people like Meri Te Tai, that we should all learn about. Unfortunately, the history curriculum is far too localised and it\u2019s not consistent enough. We are going to make sure that there are certain things that every single child in New Zealand should learn about our national history and how it links to international events.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297e4ddcbdeaf4725a7656aa81535d66d\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: What broader actions is she taking\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7eaac7fcaab4f879c313f3d566d2d8b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a minute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208cd6ebfacdb492d93024ffe43d11edb\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: What broader actions is she taking to establish a M\u0101ori education work programme and honour M\u0101ori-Crown relationships?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3b4fcb1fc0944329398f84f15a85de9\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m delighted that this Government has a quarter 4 target to deliver a M\u0101ori education action plan. Work on this is well along the way, supported by my recent appointment of my M\u0101ori Education Advisory Group led by Dr Wayne Ngata. A key recent announcement included the funding of P\u0101ngarau maths resources for M\u0101ori medium and kura, including student workbooks and teacher guides that are curriculum aligned and available in either English or te reo M\u0101ori. Now, if the previous Government had been concerned about M\u0101ori achievement rates, we wouldn\u2019t be sitting at 12\u00A0percent of M\u0101ori kids being at curriculum for mathematics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022617adaac8ae1474fb214354d94dba873\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: How is she honouring Te Tiriti o Waitangi and supporting M\u0101ori-Crown relationships when Te Akatea, who represent M\u0101ori tumuaki and leaders across Aotearoa, including the 97\u00A0percent of M\u0101ori learners who participate in English medium schooling, say they have not been consulted on any of the Government\u2019s education priorities or proposed changes to the Act that downgrade Te Tiriti o Waitangi and the national education learning priorities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223826a1d3d31e47e39600979f32751252\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I have met with most of those groups. In fact, the one that the teachers spoke\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222df619d4e6ea4583a3bfdddaae525745\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Just one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da4d37544eec45baa0383a28f33688a7\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve met with Te Akatea and Bruce Jepsen\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c63def1f83ed446da42d97e75436c2d8\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Did you consult them on it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b2a8af00e584e0f8de0e14f06ab50ec\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: And the ministry and I both consult with a wide group of principals and groups who represent unions, teachers, including Te Akatea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002276ba043fb7fa4f798403e264e62c9eff\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Land Information\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022 data-id=\u002212ef01bc83964c70be7271eb1e810b0a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212ef01bc83964c70be7271eb1e810b0a\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Land Information: What announcements has the Government made on removing roadblocks to building infrastructure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022 data-id=\u00222b1d20c983b842b39b35831e48202399\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b1d20c983b842b39b35831e48202399\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is committed to making it easier to build infrastructure in New Zealand. As part of a suite of efforts to achieve this, we have appointed an independent expert advisory panel to review the Public Works Act. This important legislation allows the Government to acquire land for critical infrastructure, of course while also respecting and acknowledging property rights. I\u2019m pleased to say that the panel has now reported back to me on recommendations for improving the fairness and efficiency of the Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288c1579f0c684989902dcf2d8203fece\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Public Works Act require a review?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2edc70fa19841eb997d9b8f1e10ae53\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: New Zealand has a widely acknowledge infrastructure deficit which is holding us back socially, environmentally, and economically. We\u2019re determined to do something about that, and, in particular, to improve our levels of productivity, lift our standard of living, and so we need it to be easier to build infrastructure such as schools, hospitals, public transport facilities, water facilities, and flood mitigation works. The Public Works Act has not been substantially amended since 1988. It\u2019s outdated in several key respects, leading to long delays and cost blowouts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce8d2170d8924667989e977f20fb29cd\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: What did the review focus on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022003c45e722aa4ea99d3c7eecda9ca7ce\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: The independent expert advisory panel has completed a short, sharp review of the Act, focusing on areas in which the efficiency, effectiveness, and clarity of the Act can be improved. Modern, large-scale infrastructure projects often create a knock-on effect where existing infrastructure must be upgraded or moved to accommodate the new project. For example, the current version of the Public Works Act does not allow for this and nor does it allow for collaboration between local and central government agencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc99a1279b4945dd8ed5d7a6934f7ae6\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: When will these changes come into effect?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022103d70596bdc4c558f534fd271a51fc2\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: We are moving at pace\u2014you\u2019ll be pleased to hear. The Government is considering the panel\u2019s recommendations, and I hope to make an announcement shortly. An amendment bill will likely be introduced into this Parliament in the middle of next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002227ba34f807424c87b383a136ee4b029a\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Rulings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022588120bcbbb04d0c9ff30cbebcfb66f8\u0022\u003EPublic Galleries\u2014Conduct\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022a36f588777a64cd38fcc7ccd8e937d77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a36f588777a64cd38fcc7ccd8e937d77\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the next item of business, I want to make clear the expectation of conduct from the public galleries. The debating chamber is a place for MPs, as elected representatives, to debate important issues. The public are very welcome to watch proceedings in the House. They are not permitted to take part. An exception to this rule has been where Speakers have allowed for waiata following Treaty settlements and other bills, the passing of which recognises a significant occasion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EFree and unintimidated speech underpins our parliamentary democracy. Members of Parliament must be able to debate issues without interruption from the public galleries. That becomes even more important when a bill before the House does not meet favour with all who are viewing its proceedings. Accordingly, then, if anyone interrupts proceedings from the galleries, they will be removed and not permitted to return.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fb250a539f8a4e759a2892dc2ad41574\u0022\u003EPrinciples of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a7366ce11a764dce977e0517023af22c\u0022\u003EDischarge\u2014Leave Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022 data-id=\u002241fa24e1544e42f1bd61986bf81f643a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241fa24e1544e42f1bd61986bf81f643a\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave for the order of the day for the first reading of the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill be discharged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022bad26d4935bb499fac3be63368092e12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bad26d4935bb499fac3be63368092e12\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection to that course of action? There appears to be objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226fe14ce90e96470ebe153526bfa82dd7\u0022\u003EAdditional Speaking Time for Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Leave Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022420f72e8bcc84c869a366ff712af8e49\u0022 data-id=\u0022829e7379ce574531b6a6b47bcb84c028\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022420f72e8bcc84c869a366ff712af8e49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022829e7379ce574531b6a6b47bcb84c028\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. We seek to move an urgent motion that Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori is granted an additional five-minute speaking slot for the first reading of the Treaty principles bill. If enacted, this bill will have a devastating intergenerational impact on our mokopuna.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u002299b9c5237f924e3dbb79a010f7866903\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299b9c5237f924e3dbb79a010f7866903\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cdbeef568f174bf6b2bd92b211f7433a\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022 data-id=\u00225b0c99419e0444b180785332f8aad6cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b0c99419e0444b180785332f8aad6cc\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8edd72e34794ffd81a9774ddc24af39\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a2e0712dded451380720a6357e9d7f8\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. According to Standing Order\u00A0116, matters subject to judicial decisions may not be referred to in any debate. Te Tiriti o Waitangi underpins the judicial system in Aotearoa and, therefore, Te Tiriti o Waitangi and its principles are currently being adjudicated in all cases currently before the courts. It would be inappropriate to debate this matter until all of these court cases have been concluded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d4b97899a574b15b4a17f22be7f734c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that would be an interesting proposition if it were realistic. It\u2019s not. Regardless of the status of the Treaty, if you look at all sorts of other documents that support the constitutional arrangements of New Zealand, then you could make the same case and, therefore, all debate in the House on all matters would be suspended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f9ea2441a7a4798b60874572fb74d9d\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Thank you, Mr Speaker. The member is in contempt of the House according to Standing Order 418(h). He has provided a bill which contains false or misleading information in an attempt to erase the rights of tangata whenua and sell our resources to offshore interests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274a993442161442db13e82e13426eabd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that would be a matter for the House to deal with, not for me to deal with by way of points of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022160dc061d0464da8a246b94b6b46353b\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Well\u2014contempt of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204da8578cdb543a78e55ed40359a8638\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Contempt of the House is a matter that you are suggesting. I\u2019m certainly not going to rule on it, because this is a bill that has been through a process inside the various arrangements between parties\u2014in fact, there is a thing called the legislative committee\u2014to get here. The second point I\u2019d make is that, if you think there has been a contempt of the House, you need to write to the Speaker in a timely fashion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a18faa4d288a4651b29183caf65ac664\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I move, That the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Justice Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003EIn 1975, this House passed the Treaty of Waitangi Act. That Act\u2019s preamble says it was \u201Cestablished to make recommendations on claims relating to the practical application of the principles of the Treaty and, for that purpose, to determine its meaning and effect and whether certain matters are inconsistent with those principles.\u201D There was one big problem: nowhere in the Treaty of Waitangi Act and at no time since has this Parliament said what those principles actually are. The democratically elected body of this Parliament has been silent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003ENature abhors a vacuum, so Parliament\u2019s silence has been filled by various court findings, tribunal reports, and the Government departments having a go at defining the principles. They\u2019ve variously arrived at the Crown having a duty to partner with M\u0101ori, to protect M\u0101ori self-determination, to consult, and redress past wrongs. What all of these principles have in common is that they afford M\u0101ori different rights from other New Zealanders. And I know why that is: lawyers, with their training, can\u2019t help but see a contract, and their instinct tells them to interpret a contract instead of asking, \u201CWhat is the best constitutional foundation for a country?\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003ESeeing the Treaty as a \u201Cpartnership between races\u201D, as the Court of Appeal once said, does not work as a constitutional foundation for a country. The lawyers will defend their logic to the hilt, but there is one question they cannot answer: where in the world is it a good idea to give citizens different rights based on ancestry? Where in the world has that approach been a success? Dividing people into tangata whenua, land people; and tangata Tiriti, people here by dint of the Treaty\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b4dca8badaa4c05ae622f01ea33266c\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Standing Order 119, \u201CReferences to Sovereign\u201D\u2014it is offensive and members cannot make reference to the Sovereign. We have our own Sovereign as M\u0101ori. We have never ceded sovereignty. What the Minister is doing is deliberately\u2014deliberately\u2014bringing into disrepute and making references to the sovereignty of M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d8694d163234d7b8063906f790c2f59\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, look, I\u2019m sorry, that\u2019s not a point of order that can stand against the cited point of order. I\u2019m not going to go into the constitutional arrangements\u2014the Standing Order doesn\u2019t stand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225feb55d9d51c4009a8013fcba2fa3343\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: We can all think of examples where dividing people up by their race or religion has failed badly. It is time for the body that posed that question in 1975 to say what those principles are. The purpose of this bill is to break this Parliament\u2019s 49-year silence, to define the principles in law so it\u2019s crystal clear what the Treaty means to modern New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003EClause 6 is the core of the bill. It says: \u201CThe principles of the Treaty of Waitangi are as follows: Principle 1 The Executive Government of New Zealand has full power to govern, and the Parliament of New Zealand has full power to make laws,\u2014(a) in the best interests\u00A0of everyone; and (b) in accordance with the rule of law and the maintenance of a free and democratic society. Principle 2 The Crown recognises, and will respect and protect, the rights that hap\u016B and iwi M\u0101ori had under the Treaty of Waitangi/te Tiriti o Waitangi at the\u00A0time they signed it. However, if those rights differ from the rights of everyone, subclause (1) applies only if those rights are agreed in the settlement of a historical treaty claim under the Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975.\u201D\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffe0c481776940c39cbce817d7dcafae\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a little bit of order, thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6c2c753bacb465aa6d8567aa328bc6c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Principle 3 says that \u201CEveryone is equal before the law. Everyone is entitled, without discrimination, to\u2014(a) the equal protection and equal benefit of the law; and (b) the equal enjoyment of the same fundamental human rights.\u201D These principles are based on the three articles of Te Tiriti, the M\u0101ori text\u2014or at least Professor Kawharu\u2019s 1987 translation of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to thank the officials at the Ministry of Justice, who, I suspect, don\u2019t all agree with this particular kaupapa but have been scrupulous in their professionalism and shown what the Public Service in New Zealand can be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003EThe bill has other important clauses. Clause 7 says the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi, in clause 6, must be used to interpret enactments. In other words, where there\u2019s a legal reference to the principles, this interpretation must be used. Clause 8 says that the Act is not to apply to interpretation of a Treaty settlement Act. In other words, Treaty settlements are safe. Some people have said that the bill threatens Treaty settlements. It does not, and there\u2019s no reason for anyone who has read the bill to say so any more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003EClause 9 says, \u201CNothing in this Act amends the text of the Treaty of Waitangi/te Tiriti o Waitangi.\u201D Once again, many people have falsely claimed this bill rewrites the Treaty. There are even those who campaigned for \u201CToit\u016B Te Tiriti\u201D or \u201CLeave the Treaty undisturbed\u201D. In black and white: this bill does not change the text of the Treaty itself; what it does do is confirm the Government has the right to govern New Zealand and this Parliament has the right to make laws in the best interests of everyone. It commits to protecting the rights of everyone\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249a9cd22aa0442ad8b0cdf82bef5fe7d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry to interrupt the member, but this constant barrage has to stop. I\u2019m actually hearing some of the comments that are being made and, if people think that they are in any way enlightening the debate, they are seriously deluded. So we\u2019ll have very rare and reasonable comments only.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4fd19d6bf9d4924bb475502ab3d88f6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. It commits to protecting the rights of everyone, including M\u0101ori, and upholding Treaty settlements. It commits to give equal enjoyment of the same fundamental human rights to every single New Zealander. The challenge for people who oppose this bill is to explain why they are so opposed to those basic principles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003EThe bill does something else, and that\u2019s the answer: it democratises the principles of the Treaty; it gives everyone a say. The commencement clause says the principles of this bill only come into force if a majority vote for it to do so in a referendum, and, as I mentioned, the principles we know today have been created by a small number of New Zealanders, even though we all have to live within them. But if democracy means anything, it means each and every person has a say in how the rules we all live under are made. It is that democratisation of the Treaty that is so important. The big change here is the idea that each person has a say on the rules they live under. Even people who are convinced this bill will not become law are determined to stop it being discussed, and that\u2019s why you hear so much outspoken criticism of it. They know that whether or not this bill becomes law in this term of Parliament, it\u2019s only a matter of time before its logic prevails. That\u2019s why they say, \u201CKill the bill\u201D, because they can\u2019t kill the idea behind the bill, especially not the idea of each person who lives legally in this country having equal rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003ENow, let me say I recognise there are people in te ao M\u0101ori who do not trust the State, and with good reason. The mamae or pain that has grown up over centuries is real: land taken, culture and language squashed, discrimination in public life. There are those who say this bill takes us back to the 1950s and earlier. I hear those who seek to stir up fear and division saying this bill will strip people of their mana, their taonga, and their reo. That is simply untrue. My mission in politics is to empower every person and every community to choose the life they want to live. It\u2019s at the core of my belief system and, funnily enough, it\u2019s the same belief system that drives many M\u0101ori activist movements. I believe that you should be empowered to do what you want with your land, to start your own school or your social service in your rohe using tikanga M\u0101ori and M\u0101ori language\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a28c2bed848470a9cfd7f2a2dc22451\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just halt for a minute. Start again\u2014it\u2019s not going to cost you any time. Why is it so hard just to listen to an argument before offering a rebuttal? It can\u2019t be too hard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2740ed73dc04f01acff3d88a0c3e3e1\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re trying to save him from himself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c7346c48bca4f91aba440d4cc48528a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m not on my feet, so I\u2019m not taking any action. I don\u2019t want to start using members\u2019 names here, but some of the calling out is ridiculous. The Hon David Seymour\u2014resume.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db44a1aabe5d46d18f5d930da5773c1e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: In short, I believe in freedom under the law, and I believe that you have those rights because of being a human being, not because you have any particular ancestry. I believe that all New Zealanders deserve tino rangatiratanga, the right to flourish as you would like to live, because all human beings are alike in dignity, and thus the bill does not extinguish any right; it does not take from anyone. It reinforces the rights of the Treaty as universal human rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003EThere are those who say that the Treaty is necessary because there\u2019s still inequity between M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori\u2014on average\u2014and that is true if you view the world as groups of people based on ancestry and you average them. But the truth is that each person is more than an average. We are thinking and valuing beings with challenges and choices and hopes and dreams. Many M\u0101ori do very well and need little help; many non-Maori are struggling and in need of greater help. If you want to help people in need, skip the division and just help people in need is what I say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003EThere are those who may agree with the sentiment of the bill but believe that there are other priorities. The simple answer is that this Government has not been stopped by this bill\u2014in fact, this Minister has not been stopped by this bill\u2014from making massive progress in health and housing and economic growth and education. You can walk and chew gum at the same time. But more importantly, a system of equal rights is essential for solving the practical problems we face: a separate health administration, seats reserved at the table of public entities, the requirement to consult people on resource management decisions based on ancestry\u2014all of it just makes the task of solving the very real problems we solve all the harder than if we join hands in common humanity against the challenges we seek to overcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003EThe division that you are seeing was not caused by this bill; it has been built up over decades, during which New Zealanders have come to regard themselves as based on ancestry or one side of a partnership instead of as New Zealanders, and, what\u2019s worse, successive Governments have encouraged that division. The division is there whether this bill is here to reveal it or not, and we cannot afford to ignore it any longer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003EIn summary, the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill fills a silence this Parliament has left for five decades. In so doing, it affirms the basis of our country. It is not division. Treaties are supposed to unite people, not divide them. We are fortunate that our country was founded by a voluntary agreement giving ng\u0101 tikanga katoa rite tahi [absolutely equal rights], or equal rights, to all, and for affirming and celebrating that wonderful inheritance, I commend this bill to the House. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022 data-id=\u0022e89d6ea6ac9b47dbb6eb4f0c821c358a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e89d6ea6ac9b47dbb6eb4f0c821c358a\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Shame, shame, shame on you, David Seymour. Shame on you for what you\u2019re trying to do to this nation in introducing this Treaty principles bill. Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia will be ashamed that one of their sons has come up with a political stunt that looks to divide the nation and the partnership that we\u2019ve been trying to get right since the most pre-eminent jurist in New Zealand history\u2014Lord Cooke\u2014made that historic declaration of partnership in 1987. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EThis bill seeks to rewrite the Treaty. David Seymour wants to turn over 50 years of our understanding of Treaty principles and partnership. The principles are clear\u2014they\u2019re clear. They\u2019re about partnership, they\u2019re about equity, they\u2019re about active protection, and they\u2019re about redress\u2014simple. Why does this offend the Associate Minister of Justice so much? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EThis bill seeks to give M\u0101ori rights and indigenous rights to everyone, and there\u2019s no doubt that Mr Seymour wants to totally change the Treaty as we know it. That\u2019s the view of the best legal minds in the country: the King\u2019s Counsel who have said to abandon this bill; the Waitangi Tribunal, who have said that by engaging with this process, the Crown was sanctioning a process that will take away indigenous rights; and, in fact, there\u2019s a view of Crown Law, the Government\u2019s own lawyers\u2014the Government\u2019s own lawyers\u2014who have said that this bill will undermine M\u0101ori rights. But still David Seymour persists with this disgusting piece of legislation. I said some time ago that he was the most dangerous politician in New Zealand, and that has come to pass. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EI\u2019m a Labour Party member, but I\u2019m also a proud M\u0101ori and New Zealander, and I denounce this foul attempt to rewrite the constitutional framework of this nation simply because the Prime Minister is too weak to stop the dangerous extremism of the ACT Party. [Applause from gallery] The party of Doug Graham, the party of Chris Finlayson, Jim Bolger, Jenny Shipley\u2014none of those people would have been played the way the Prime Minister has been played. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022211523ca1cf1484082bbb8e8bf3006a7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is the last time there is to be any outbursts from the gallery, and that is the last time we\u2019re to hear a personal reflection of that nature in today\u2019s speeches. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a10c1251073547c4b4570838c1c715e3\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Mr Speaker\u2014thank you, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister claims that this is MMP and his hands are tied, but he chose to sell M\u0101ori down the river and chose to throw all our shared work out just so he could be Prime Minister. Every single National Party member should be ashamed at the cowardice shown by the Prime Minister and this party. By introducing the bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d57a4e611e34ff8bc33b99630793625\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Jackson\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d988d23b5b884fc1bcc52804a94ffd69\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014National are letting M\u0101oridom down\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223feefbecce9147459f44215a704b4b20\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Jackson, think about what you\u2019re saying. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6aa12e492d54fcd8f4ccb3590d8e8bc\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I have very much, Mr Speaker, but thank you for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdbd9dca407f4bf1ba1af83f38d4efa4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I know, but not very clearly, obviously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1c214236671497786d8f70342408c1c\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s your view, Mr Speaker. Thank you for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e29e342600a49d1b709740fef77262a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry to interrupt you, but don\u2019t go down that track. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258d9b3e833c4401383188957c6774551\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: OK. By introducing the bill, though, National are allowing David Seymour to launch a six-month hate tour. He\u2019s using that six-month hate tour to launch a citizens initiated referendum to fight the National Party in 1996. The Minister\u2019s \u201CVanity Treaty Principles Bill\u201D will cost us $4\u00A0million\u2014$4\u00A0million\u2014at a time when we\u2019ve got the cost of living going through the roof. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EI\u2019m telling Mr Seymour, and some of the National Party members who are enabling this, that M\u0101oridom will never accept a redefining of the relationship with the Crown, not today, not tomorrow\u2014not ever. We will march and march and h\u012Bkoi for our rights m\u014D \u0101ke \u0101ke \u0101ke. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EThis Minister has purposely allowed misinformation to replace the true nature of the relationship from the M\u0101ori chiefs and Crown, and has sold that criticism as equality. He is not standing up for democracy. He is using and abusing democracy against my people; against your people. How dare you, David Seymour? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EYesterday, I was on a h\u012Bkoi. I was so proud to be on that h\u012Bkoi with our political colleagues in the M\u0101ori Party, the Green Party\u2014wonderful\u2014and Asians, M\u0101ori, and Pasifika were all there. They gave me a clear message, and I agreed to give that message here, today. This is to you, David Seymour: you fuel hatred and misinformation in this country, you bring out the worst in New Zealanders, you should be ashamed of yourself, and you are a liar. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ee06fee5ff44fb1a9d32b43bdb082ee\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u00229d25d47780cd44e08e6bb5928eab6bd6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d25d47780cd44e08e6bb5928eab6bd6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s all right, I\u2019m about to rule. Withdraw and apologise for that last statement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282d3c9b1a1884331b1a787ecd8fe1dfb\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, I can\u2019t do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d69bfc14eb214f99a386b26b6d1b0605\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Willie Jackson, I\u2019m asking you to withdraw and apologise for your last statement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9de7318e2c842898a2a2248ba97fe9b\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, I can\u2019t do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022541618a034054b5aa82efb00abedc663\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Willie Jackson, are you not going to withdraw for saying something that is so blatantly unparliamentary as that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f05b341ff1d4465b8859472890687e3b\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, that\u2019s a message from the h\u012Bkoi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b9df3f4a4dd466391faedc8b0e0befa\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It doesn\u2019t matter who it came from. You used the term in the House. You made the accusation in the House. Withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EAll right, then. I\u2019m going to have to ask the member to withdraw himself from the House for the rest of the afternoon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson withdrew from the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022 data-id=\u002286caec0737274c6cb5ff8232897f4910\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286caec0737274c6cb5ff8232897f4910\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E When you\u2019re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression. That is what is behind this bill. Its architect tells us that this is about equality, but we do not have equality in this country. Pick almost any statistic that you like\u2014housing, incarceration, health, life expectancy\u2014M\u0101ori get unfair and unequal outcomes because of unfair and unequal treatment which started with the Crown\u2019s intentional violent actions to dishonour Te Tiriti o Waitangi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EBut this is not just about M\u0101ori; this is about all of us. Te Tiriti is why and how each of us is on this whenua. It tells us so much about who we are, how we got here, and where we go if we treat each other and our planet well, if we are good Treaty partners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003ECapitalism, an economic system with the key priority being to turn profit at almost any cost, needs colonisation. This insatiable, unsustainable economic system needs to assimilate and acquire new frontiers to exploit. It needs to turn every citizen into a consumer and to commodify our natural world. And right now, in this country, the biggest thing standing in its way is the resilience and the fire in the enduring movement from mana motuhake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EWhen Te Tiriti was signed, M\u0101ori outnumbered P\u0101keh\u0101 by 40 to one. Can you imagine a small group of people coming to this country, signing an agreement to look after themselves in orderly cohabitation, then, instead, taking our land and our language? Well, that is the abridged history of Aotearoa New Zealand. That is what the British Crown did in establishing this Parliament and its institutions. The legacy of that violence, oppression, theft and colonisation and the breach of Te Tiriti o Waitangi is represented in today\u2019s deeply unequal and unfair statistics in people\u2019s lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EP\u0101keh\u0101 m\u0101, tauiwi m\u0101, we have been told for almost all of our lives that M\u0101ori sovereignty is something to be afraid of. Who has been telling you that? Who benefits and who pays the price? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EThe discomfort that you feel\u2014that I once felt\u2014is an invitation to listen, to learn, to understand, and to honour. Te Tiriti o Waitangi is gift. It is a blueprint of an Aotearoa that respects people and planet. It is the antidote to the exhaustion and the disenfranchisement that I know profoundly is felt in communities across this country right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003ENow, some politicians will tell you that we just need a clean slate for the past. They will tell you that people today should not be held responsible for the actions of our forebears. So let\u2019s be really, really clear here: you do not need to be personally responsible for the historical dishonouring of Te Tiriti o Waitangi to actively benefit from that horrific legacy today. That is the truth. But this Parliament does benefit; all 123 members of this Parliament do benefit. The power in this place, in this Parliament, was built on a legacy of deceit, dehumanisation, and domination, and today all 123 members of Parliament will vote to either further entrench that utterly shameful legacy or to be honest and to do something about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister has told us that there\u2019s nothing that he likes about this divisive bill. He\u2019s told us that the National Party don\u2019t support this bill. Any member of Parliament in this Chamber right now can call for a personal vote on this bill to vote differently from their party, to put the country above partisan politics. A leader or a whip cannot stop MPs\u2019 constitutional right to vote how they know that they need to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EMy question to MPs is: are you here to hold on to power at any cost or are you here to do the right thing? Are you here to listen to your conscience or are you here to give it all up on one of the most significant votes in this House in our lifetime? Because, if you wear the mask for a little while, it becomes your face. We are what we do. If you vote for this bill, that is who you are and this is how you will be remembered. Toit\u016B Te Tiriti.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2cbe658b0b942a48212779c63cf543d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2cbe658b0b942a48212779c63cf543d\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The background to the arrival of this bill, the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill, for its first reading in Parliament has been well traversed. The coalition agreement between ACT and National stipulates that National will support the Treaty principles bill for its first reading and to select committee, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re doing today. The Prime Minister also has indicated many times that, as far as the National Party is concerned, that is far as our support will go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003EParliament first referred to the principles of the Treaty in the 1970s but never defined them. The courts have stepped into that vacuum over the past 30-odd years. The principles of the Treaty, such as the concept of partnership, have gained more and more weight over time. It is, of course, appropriate for politicians and the public to debate what the Treaty means today and what it should mean in the future. The interpretations given by the courts are not gospel. We should be able to debate these things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003EOur concern comes, however, with the process under this bill, whereby Parliament would simply set down its interpretation of the Treaty and then seek a majority of the public\u00A0to confirm it in a referendum. This is a crude way to handle a very delicate subject. With a wave of the wand, as it were, we would unwind more than 30 years of jurisprudence\u2014winner takes\u00A0all. Of course there will be a wide variety of views amongst M\u0101ori, just as there is amongst any group, but those opposed to the changes will likely conclude that fundamental change is being imposed on them by a majority if it were to pass. That would risk stoking an already keen sense of grievance. It would risk increasing divisions in our country rather than reducing them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why National has indicated it will not support the bill in its final stages or for it to be put to a referendum. We believe the better way to address the many legitimate questions about the role of the Treaty in our democracy today is to progress the numerous specific changes we are making issue by issue. The guiding principle is that, in our efforts to honour Treaty of Waitangi commitments and the Treaty settlement, we should never lose sight of the basic expectations of people living in a modern democratic society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9c60b543e724683bcbbfbbf03587458\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Enough of that constant, across-the-House comment that adds nothing to the debate. The member may look shocked at that, but if I was to write it down and present it to him, he\u2019d be horrified.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272a01a7fc62a4ff2be44bcd446b15602\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The guiding principle is that, in our efforts to honour Treaty of Waitangi commitments and Treaty settlements, we should never lose sight of the basic expectations of people living in a modern democratic society, such as equal voting rights; equality before the law; and, broadly speaking, an equal say in matters affecting their lives and the world around them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003EThere is a tension between those two things, between honouring commitments to M\u0101ori flowing from the Treaty and the basic expectations of equality in a modern democracy. This is a tension that can\u2019t just be glossed over or ignored. Our proposition is that, as a nation, we should be serious in our commitment to the first but, in doing so, should be careful never to lose sight of or drift too far from the second. To be absolutist in the sense of demanding perfect equal treatment on absolutely everything would be to overlook the complications of history and commitments made. All democracies have kinks in them flowing from historical compromises. Think of the UK House of Lords or the fact that voters in the US Senate elections in Wyoming have a much greater say than voters in California. At the same time, to drift too far from basic equality would be an invitation to disaster.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003EThis is not a topic that lends itself to a neat, tidy, single solution; it has to be worked through issue by issue, which is what we are doing. That\u2019s why we have reasserted the principle that healthcare should be delivered on the basis of need alone. That\u2019s why we\u2019re pushing back against the previous Government\u2019s move against equal voting rights in local government. That\u2019s why we\u2019re unwinding co-governance arrangements in core public services and a separate M\u0101ori Health Authority. That\u2019s why we\u2019ve taken the unusual step of overturning the reasoning behind a Court of Appeal ruling in the marine and coastal area Act to restore a high test before the customary marine title is awarded on parts of our coastline. That\u2019s why we\u2019re embarking on the mammoth task of reviewing the Treaty references in existing legislation to ensure they\u2019re clear about what Parliament does and doesn\u2019t mean.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003EAt the same time, we\u2019re committed to continuing and completing the Treaty settlement process begun in the 1990s. It\u2019s been a bipartisan effort over decades and involved thousands of M\u0101ori up and down the country, studying history, negotiating, forming new structures, and managing settlements. The settlements have never been an exercise in attaining perfection, but it is the best effort across many generations and we\u2019re proud of those efforts. The Government will never lose sight of the reality that the things that most M\u0101ori want are the same as what most other New Zealanders want: a strong economy that can deliver jobs and incomes and sustain a good standing of living, decent housing, to feel safe in their community, and for their kids to access great education that sets them up to succeed. [Interruption] The reality is that, in each of those areas\u2014[Interruption] Point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a4a30cb9b154216b3cc914ed1686056\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, your time is up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d53c48e637d47fe93308dceda0b9154\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I was interrupted half a dozen times by the barracking and intimidation on the other side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022360d0d9346a04f719855f5dd68d3b520\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022360d0d9346a04f719855f5dd68d3b520\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sit down. Your time\u2019s up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022 data-id=\u0022456db988fdb043ebbfa05137c66bd969\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022456db988fdb043ebbfa05137c66bd969\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E Te Wai Pounamu, Te Ika-a-M\u0101ui, ng\u0101 iwi katoa, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. Ko te k\u0101inga manaaki, he mahana; ko te k\u0101inga wh\u0101nau, he aroha; ko te k\u0101inga wairua, he p\u016Bmau. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003E[South Island, North Island, and all the nations, greetings to you all. A hospitable house is a warm house; a family house is a house with love; a house of union is for ever.] [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e2daab4c3d64b1bbf62253f012e85e3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Right, sorry. I\u2019ve asked repeatedly for people to restrain themselves a little bit. Of course emotions run high in a debate like this, but outbursts of the type we\u2019re getting don\u2019t change that. So, please, just respect a bit of decorum in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4580ad5ee73450d98171cc6e2dbe893\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: As this Ng\u0101puhi proverb says, \u201CThe warm home is safe. The family home is love. The home with spirit endures.\u201D I stand here today, in this House of Parliament, our democracy, a home where\u2014as it\u2019s evident today\u2014our spirit endures. Today, I do not speak only about principles, legal contrivances, ideological posture, rather to reflect on the deeper roots beyond politics\u2014the very elements my ancestor T\u0101mati Waka Nene highlighted when he signed the Treaty in 1840.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003EAs it was recorded, when signing the Treaty, the chiefs were greeted with \u201CHe iwi tahi t\u0101tou.\u201D\u2014together we are a people, a nation\u2014and we did form a nation, and our people, although not always getting it right, did come together. We are not a people who should fear debate, ideas, or difference of opinion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003EDemocracy is weakened by a censorious approach. Democracy is chilled if the highest court in the land is stifled. Differences of opinion are expected, and today, in the esteemed debating chamber, we have the chance to demonstrate that we are not censorious and we will not be stifled. There is nothing to fear through challenging ideas and presenting different positions. That is what brings us to the House today\u2014the ability to bring ideas, challenge those ideas, and perhaps be enriched by those different perspectives and maybe come to a better position because of what we have learnt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First has a very long and consistent history on our position regarding the Treaty principles. As a party, we have brought legislation to this House in order to deliver clarity and certainty to this nation regarding the Treaty and its influence on who we are. We have, and continue to, reject that there are principles. New Zealand First brought legislation in 2005, the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Deletion Bill, which was voted down. Following the 2005 election, a confidence and supply agreement between the Labour Party\u00A0and New Zealand First stated, \u201CSupport New Zealand First bill relating to Treaty principles going to select committee for consideration.\u201D This allowed us to bring this bill back to this House. Therefore, it seems not unprecedented to allow contentious legislation in the agreements to form a Government, to come to this House. And we are a healthy enough democracy to survive contentious debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003EWe do not stand alone in this view that there are no Treaty principles. Our leader, the Rt\u00A0Hon Winston Peters, has referred often to the great M\u0101ori leaders who forged the path for\u00A0a better New Zealand: Sir Apirana Ngata, Sir Peter Buck, Sir M\u0101ui P\u014Dmare, Sir James Carroll. They all shared the position that there were no principles to the Treaty, and that will remain New Zealand First\u2019s position. It is under the shared knowledge and understanding of our history that New Zealand First has remained committed to the purpose of the Treaty. As Dame Whina Cooper said, \u201CWe signed the Treaty to become one people\u201D, but that does not mean that we turn away from our obligation to our democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003EAs my esteemed colleague, the Hon Shane Jones, elucidated to the House yesterday, this precious place in which we stand is a place where ideas must be respected. Parliamentarians are entitled to put ideas forward for debate. The issues on which a party campaigned and, through that campaign, received a mandate to enter this House must be respected, and the process of our democracy must be afforded the opportunity to be heard. We need, in this House, to be guardians of the rights that this Chamber represents. Free and open exchange of ideas is not something to be feared; it is a legacy that was hard fought by many who have gone before. Agreement and consensus of opinion, accompanied by a reluctance to put forward different thinking, would stifle the development of ideas to broaden our minds and innovate our solutions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003EThis bill is brought to the House for consideration, and I cannot help but be reminded of the words of Voltaire, to paraphrase, \u201CI may not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it.\u201D It is important to maintain perspective and dignity in this debate, and we do not allow this to become antagonistic. New Zealand First will, as we\u2019ve committed to, support this bill to the first reading; it is our commitment to this Government and to this democracy. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022 data-id=\u00226c49750277d64ccb98b9ba41219d411c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c49750277d64ccb98b9ba41219d411c\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E As I take to my feet, and as my people have taken to theirs, I stand here on behalf of my babies in the gallery, and all of our mokopuna.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003EKo aku whakaaro kei te ika hui rua o te w\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003E[My thoughts are with the two recently deceased.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003EAs I stood at the edge of Te Rerenga Wairua at the beginning of our h\u012Bkoi, ka tangi kotokoto ki a Koro Bom Gillies [I sobbed with sadness for Koro Bom Gillies] and my teina, Ricky Mitai. Both are the epitome of kotahitanga in life and death. The kotahitanga of the M\u0101ori Battalion on the battlefield meant their survival and success. They knew that division would be fatal\u2014a lesson to us all. Ricky Lee, in his short life, has embodied the voice of kotahitanga from the lens of k\u014Dhanga reo generation. In death, he has brought together all generations and all iwi as they mourn what should have been a future leader they had nurtured and moulded. They are the cost of kotahitanga, and they are the mana and tapu of our Toit\u016B Te Tiriti h\u012Bkoi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003ETe Tiriti o Waitangi is superior to any person and any law ever created in this House. It is the constitutional document by which this House and democracy is established here in Aotearoa. This Parliament means nothing in Aotearoa without Te Tiriti o Waitangi. The only reason this Parliament exists in Aotearoa is because our t\u012Bpuna consented to it. The only people who can make changes in an agreement are the parties who signed it: the King of England me ng\u0101 rangatira o ng\u0101 hap\u016B o Aotearoa [and the chiefs of the hap\u016B of Aotearoa]. Now, tell me, David Seymour, which one of those are you? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003EACT are seen to be pulling the strings and running the country, like the KKK with a swipe card to the Beehive, and Luxon doesn\u2019t even care. There\u2019s a ghost in his chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003EEverybody, every single one of the members sitting on that side of the House have enabled this bill to be introduced to the House. You are complicit in the harm and the division that this presents and are complicit in the euthanising of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. You have no right to touch something you have no mana over. Te Tiriti o Waitangi sits above you. You have no right to make VIP decisions from the cheap seats. How dare you threaten our mokopuna. Te Tiriti was an arrangement to unify. This bill serves to divide. Te iwi M\u0101ori don\u2019t expect this House to liberate us. We must be our own liberation. We\u2019ve been talking about P\u0101keh\u0101 honouring Te Tiriti o Waitangi, expecting solutions to come from the very House that attacks us every single day. So the real question we now need to ask ourselves, e te iwi M\u0101ori, is when will we honour Te Tiriti o Waitangi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003EArticle 1 gave consent to P\u0101keh\u0101 to govern over themselves. They\u2019ve assumed governance over us. When will we begin to assume governance ourselves? Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori is the only party committed to establishing our own whare rangatira [house of leadership]. E oho. E oho. [Wake up. Wake up.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003EOur role as Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori is not to be a part of this system but to create our own. What is the pathway forward for us, e te iwi? Tino rangatiratanga and self-governance is the ultimate goal, but there are steps we must take to get there. First, we need to do what we need to do to get rid of this Government. This must be a one-term Government. How do we do that? E te iwi M\u0101ori, we must all register on the M\u0101ori roll. E oho. [Wake up.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003EEverybody must register on the M\u0101ori roll if you are M\u0101ori or if you have M\u0101ori whakapapa. That is the goal. In order to make this a one-term Government, we need more\u00A0M\u0101ori voices in this House. We need more M\u0101ori independent seats in this House. That is how we do it\u2014everybody on the M\u0101ori roll. If you are M\u0101ori, get on the M\u0101ori roll. Talk to your pakeke. Ko r\u0101tou ng\u0101 mea kei te raruraru. [They are the ones who are in trouble.] The rangatahi are migrating. They are registering on the M\u0101ori roll. That must be our goal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003EE taku iwi [To my M\u0101ori people]: 35,000 people marched yesterday across that bridge, and they will arrive here, at Parliament. And one message to you, David, is \u201CSee you next Tuesday.\u201D Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u0022fac294ee4c9a424184ed0c1d8e01090b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fac294ee4c9a424184ed0c1d8e01090b\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to speak on this bill. As I reflect on the 16 years\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cbf72f7486e4c938c25bddf891e38fc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just wait till the House and galleries go quiet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254bec0159cd249739e212fc4266c0a75\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that I\u2019ve been a member of Parliament, as a country we have faced some significant challenges, and I know that we are better when we face them together, when we are united. National\u2019s long-held position is that a referendum on the Treaty would be divisive and would not deliver an outcome that takes our country forward. It\u2019s a simplistic approach to a very complex issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003EOver successive decades, our country has grappled with how to deal with the Treaty, and, of course, significant challenges remain. National has never shied away from the challenging issues or the hard work that is needed, working together through the issues around the Treaty on a case by case, issue by issue basis. I\u2019m proud to be part of National\u2019s broad-church approach to dealing with tough issues and our track record of doing just that. We have actively\u00A0progressed Treaty settlements to address historical wrongdoings. We continue to build on the relationships that we have forged with iwi M\u0101ori over the decades. We have reversed a number of Labour\u2019s divisive co-governance policies, like three waters and the M\u0101ori Health Authority. We are working through specific instances where the Treaty is mentioned in legislation and we need to be clear about what it means in the context of that\u00A0legislation. It is a harder approach, but it is the right approach because it will deliver enduring solutions. It is simply not realistic to suggest 184 years of debate can be settled with the broad stroke of a pen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003ENational\u2019s focus and motivation is on improving outcomes for all New Zealanders by rebuilding the economy, restoring law and order, and delivering better public services. Through Government, business, iwi, and community working together, we will have a greater impact on the people we serve. This bill does nothing to help. I am determined to build a society that breaks down barriers for Kiwis with the highest needs. Too often, those with the highest needs are M\u0101ori, and, in many cases, M\u0101ori have the answers. I\u2019m proud of the work that we do to support a by M\u0101ori, for M\u0101ori approach. We are working to help New Zealanders with a package of reforms to get our kids back to school and learning the basics brilliantly through programmes that support families to move out of motels and into stable housing and by helping people move off benefits and into work. This is how we improve lives and opportunities for New Zealanders. This bill does nothing to help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003EMMP is a complex environment, and all parties are required to make compromises to form a Government. National will uphold the coalition agreement with ACT and support their Treaty principles bill at first reading, allowing it to go to select committee. However, we will vote against it at the second reading, as this bill does nothing to help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022 data-id=\u0022d06c691cdcf5483fa6666bc2a0026c9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d06c691cdcf5483fa6666bc2a0026c9a\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora e te Mana Whakaw\u0101. This bill is a shameful return to some of the most offensive legislation this House has passed. When we look back and we think of the Maori Prisoners Act 1880, suspending trial rights for M\u0101ori at Parihaka; the New Zealand Settlements Act 1863, confiscating land after the Tainui wars; the Tohunga Suppression Act 1907, banning traditional practices; and the Native Schools Act 1867, banning the use of te reo\u2014we look back now and we think, \u201CHow could Parliament have been so wrong, so fundamentally at odds with the promises made in the Treaty? So racist.\u201D Yet here we are. Christopher Luxon, you are presiding over the most racist piece of legislation in a hundred years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bab02bd2773840938f31500eddea1ac1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You could use the word \u201Cis\u201D but not \u201Cyou\u201D. I take a liberal approach generally, but I\u2019m getting a little bit tired of the number of accusations firing my way at the moment. So you could word that a different way\u2014no loss of time here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4c36dfd027046c9aa980d57805acc31\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll continue. This bill is a bill that\u2019s so obnoxious that 40\u00A0King\u2019s Counsel have spoken out against it. They point out that \u201C[This] coalition Government\u2019s Treaty Principles Bill seeks to redefine in law the meaning of [the Treaty] by replacing existing Treaty principles with new Treaty principles which are said to reflect the three articles of [the Treaty] \u2026 The problem is they [don\u2019t]. By imposing a contested definition of the three articles, the bill seeks to rewrite the Treaty itself.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EThe Treaty has endured despite everything\u2014a hastily drafted document that has versions in M\u0101ori and English that don\u2019t agree with each other, a Treaty which this House has repeatedly ignored, a Treaty that the courts once called a \u201Cnullity\u201D, but its spirit has endured. M\u0101ori have never given up. They have been tenacious across generations. In the Treaty, there is an underlying agreement and an intention between the Crown and M\u0101ori to work in partnership, to recognise their respective spheres of authority, and to protect, promote, and preserve those things which are M\u0101ori. This bill seeks to do away with this by rewriting how the Treaty works, by creating new and deeply objectionable principles which deny the authority of M\u0101ori. What then is the promise of tino rangatiratanga in the Treaty? In the\u00A0words of those 42 distinguished lawyers, this new principle \u201Cerases the Crown\u2019s Article\u00A02 guarantee to M\u0101ori of tino rangatiratanga\u201D; it seeks to undermine the chieftainship and self-determination and their political authority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EThis is a damaging piece of legislation. This Government\u2014Christopher Luxon\u2014is taking a wrecking ball to the work that has been done by successive Governments over the past 50 years since the Waitangi Tribunal was established. This bill would amount to the dictatorship of the majority. This Parliament can\u2014and has passed racist laws in the past, and M\u0101ori are still paying the price and we all are still paying the price.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve come a long way since those laws were passed\u2014or so we thought. We\u2019ve recognised this House does not have an unfettered mandate to violate the rights of others. But this bill demonstrates that some people still think that because Parliament is sovereign, because the power exists, there\u2019s a mandate to expropriate, rewrite, and revisit. They think their power is unfettered, unbridled, and unconstrained\u2014but it\u2019s not. As those 42 King\u2019s Counsel said, even if Parliament can legislate like this, it should not, because it\u2019s not for the Government of the day to retrospectively and unilaterally reinterpret constitutional treaties\u2014that would offend the basic principles which underpin New Zealand\u2019s representative democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EThere are big constitutional questions that deserve debate and Te Tiriti is one of them\u2014a contentious one. But it should be given a debate which is careful and conducted in good faith. This Government has approached this debate in a way that\u2019s disrespectful at best and hateful at worst. Will a later Parliament look back at the conduct of Christopher Luxon presiding over this bill and put it alongside those Parliaments which drove a wedge in our society and\u00A0caused generations of harm? I think so. And now we go to a futile select committee process\u2014one where the National Party said they\u2019re not going to vote for it; we\u2019re not going to vote for it. It\u2019s wasteful, it\u2019s divisive. That Government should be ashamed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022 data-id=\u00226db94402581f4a5d8a0106e3f7306f7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226db94402581f4a5d8a0106e3f7306f7e\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity to participate in this debate. In doing so, I want to echo the words of my National Party colleagues who have already spoken. It\u2019s National\u2019s long-held position that a referendum on the Treaty would be divisive. We therefore do not support this bill becoming law. We believe this bill is a simplistic approach to what is a very complex issue and will not deliver the equality of opportunity that National believes all New Zealanders deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003EOver successive decades, New Zealand has grappled with how to deal with the Treaty. It\u2019s not realistic to suggest that almost 200 years of debate over what is an incredibly complex and challenging issue would be resolved by the passing of a single piece of legislation. It is too blunt and simplistic and risks stoking grievance and driving division.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003ENational therefore takes the more difficult but more practical and enduring approach to dealing with Treaty and race issues, and that is to work together on these issues, case by case.\u00A0Successive National Governments have worked well with M\u0101ori on Treaty issues. We have a proud track record of progressive Treaty settlements to address historic wrongdoings. We know we won\u2019t always agree with each other on the best way forward\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022083d676e75be4ad2b6f983368023482a\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re making your colleagues agree.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226461b0c14b144058ac2151e4bccdd270\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and that is to be expected\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f8713bd35b04402a2114d17a8075554\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just give it a rest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b777ad8f3e494dfeba0f00db666bff50\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014on an issue as complex as this. For instance, National does not believe in co-governance of public services, and we don\u2019t agree that having a separate M\u0101ori health bureaucracy or a co-governance of local water assets is the way to achieve equality of opportunity. Just as we do not believe that this bill will help us to\u00A0achieve equality of opportunity all New Zealanders deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003ENational was elected to rebuild the economy, to restore law and order, and deliver better public services. This bill does none of those things. The reality of MMP is that parties\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022770bb7a284a54df6b55c2f8ed93cbfb5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on. Constantly talking like that is not interjecting\u2014it\u2019s being disorderly. There are two members particularly who\u2019ve done it repeatedly throughout the afternoon, and I\u2019ve been very, very tolerant. But they should remain silent for the next two minutes and 10 seconds at least\u2014actually, a couple of days would be good!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022052331de37164b17aec563ffabb72ec0\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: Hope springs eternal! The reality of MMP, as I was saying, is that parties are required to make compromises to form a Government; that\u2019s the essence of MMP. National has made a commitment to our coalition partner that we will support this bill to select committee, and we will honour that commitment today by voting as such. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f9d75cdfba14e06a4dcc12b4ce5cda6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, hang on. Stop there. What did I just say about constantly talking? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272cea052018b4bf483e3d191686e113d\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you said to them. You didn\u2019t say here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e934524f9724905958c6309597c1b59\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, it wasn\u2019t them. I was looking directly at the member who is in my line of sight at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5e9e53783734605941962fc2f24e575\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: You can\u2019t give them an easy run, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce2fa70c908f4749a72878ba39c48e7b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no, please. Enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e59241e16e0442182963fdd3d8b633a\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I was saying, we will honour that commitment today by voting as we have agreed in our coalition agreement. However, National is united in our view that this bill should not pass into law, and that is why we will vote against it at second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022 data-id=\u0022fcbdd20f5d594621b057d4e0c4232ceb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fcbdd20f5d594621b057d4e0c4232ceb\u0022\u003ECUSHLA TANGAERE-MANUEL (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare; otir\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. \u201CEhara taku maunga, a Hikurangi, i te maunga nekeneke; he maunga t\u016B tonu mai onamata\u201D. Engari i t\u0113nei r\u0101 kei te h\u016Bnuku a Hikurangi ki konei ki te whakah\u0113 i t\u0113nei pire kino rawa atu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003E[Greetings, Mr Speaker; indeed all of us. \u201CMy mountain, Hikurangi, is not a transient mountain; it is a mountain that has stood strong since former ages\u201D. But today Hikurangi is moving all the way here to oppose this exceptionally bad bill.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003EMy mountain, Hikurangi, is not a moving mountain. It has stood fast since time immemorial, but today Hikurangi is on the move, supporting the thousands descending upon Parliament to condemn this divisive moumou moni, moumou t\u0101ima [waste of money, waste of time] bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003EHeoi ko taku mihi tuatahi i t\u0113nei r\u0101 ki a koutou e t\u016B ana m\u014D t\u0113nei kaupapa, kia whai mana tonu te Tiriti o Waitangi. Kei te rongo au i t\u014D koutou ihi, t\u014D koutou wehi, t\u014D koutou wana, t\u014D koutou mana, t\u014D koutou t\u016Bmanako. T\u0113nei te mihi nui rawa atu ki a koutou e whawhai tonu ana m\u014D m\u0101tou, te iwi M\u0101ori, m\u014D \u0101 m\u0101tou tika. Ko te inoi kia kaha tonu koutou. M\u0101 te Atua koutou e manaaki, e tiaki kia tae ora koutou ki konei \u0101 t\u0113r\u0101 wiki.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003E[However, my first acknowledgment today is to you all who are standing up for this initiative, so that the Treaty of Waitangi retains its power. I feel your internal power, your awesomeness, your fervour, and your hope. I appreciate very much that you are fighting for us, the M\u0101ori people, for our rights. My request is that you keep up your strength. May God care for you and protect you so that you arrive here safely next week.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003EI stand today with a great sense of responsibility to those gone before me and the mokopuna who will come. I feel them here with me as I stand to condemn this backward-looking, resource-wasting, divisive bill, the Treaty of Waitangi principles bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003EI stand here proud to be M\u0101ori, tangata whenua, a proud W\u012Bw\u012B N\u0101ti, but I also stand here ashamed\u2014ashamed\u2014that this Government is even entertaining this ridiculous bill. What are we grappling with? It\u2019s simple: honour the Treaty; no grapple involved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003EThe people of Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti brought me to this House with hope\u2014hope that we might actually address the real issues that wh\u0101nau are facing, issues like housing, employment, education, and economic development. Instead, on a daily basis, they are faced with what they describe as incessant attacks on M\u0101ori: the removal of section 7AA from the Oranga Tamariki Act, Te Aka Whai Ora\u2014but this bill takes the cake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003EThe explanatory note of this bill says that an overarching objective is to \u201Cpromote a national conversation about the place of the principles, etc.\u201D M\u0101ori have held national conversations about all aspects of Te Tiriti since 5\u00A0February 1840 at Taurangatira. It\u2019s been debated on every marae, the length and breadth of Aotearoa since. Why should this Government\u2019s belated arrival to the scene usurp all the conversations that have gone on\u00A0before? Honour Te Tiriti before altering the spirit, intent, and outcomes t\u012Bpuna signed up to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003EYesterday, we stood in unison to honour T\u0101 Bom Gillies, who said, \u201CWe returned from war to the continued subjugation of M\u0101ori, since the Treaty to this day,\u201D. Honestly, e hika m\u0101 [my friends], what is the price of citizenship? Since signing what was, effectively, our very first social cohesion document, M\u0101ori have held up our side of the bargain. M\u0101ori have fought for this country. M\u0101ori have died for this country. Let M\u0101ori live in this country with tino rangatiratanga, as we afforded our Treaty partners. I want to be clear: this bill is not a threat to tino rangatiratanga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003EKo t\u014Dku mana n\u014D tuawhakarere. Ko t\u014D m\u0101tou mana n\u014D tuawhakarere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003E[My authority is from ancient times. Our power is from ancient times.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003EThis bill has already impacted M\u0101ori-Crown relationships. Iwi have united in their stance against this backward-looking, money-wasting, divisive bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003EHei whakakapi, e hika m\u0101, kei te tautoko awau i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero a taku t\u016Bng\u0101ne. M\u0101ori m\u0101, e t\u016B. Me p\u014Dti. [To conclude, my friends, I support the statements of my brother. To the M\u0101ori people, stand up. You must vote.] As my favourite banner, so far, in the h\u012Bkoi has said, we don\u2019t need to change the Treaty\u2014we do not need to change the Treaty\u2014we need to change this Government. I stand united with the thousands across Aotearoa who are descending upon Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003EKei te whakah\u0113 rawa atu awau i t\u0113nei pire. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003E[I absolutely oppose this bill. Thank you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022 data-id=\u002273d5e5d69c084990b5c4d7513fef9701\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273d5e5d69c084990b5c4d7513fef9701\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. As has been well covered, National does not support this bill becoming law. Minister Goldsmith outlined very clearly our long-held position on this bill\u2014[Interruption]\u2014and the reasons why we will\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e30c045ae18453f9edc83999c63fb3a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK, that\u2019s the absolute end of it. It\u2019s the last speech, it\u2019s going to be heard in silence. [Interruption] Did someone disagree?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7691d39ddc44ce4a59d7557b3fb6789\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, Minister Goldsmith did outline very clearly our long-held position on this bill and the reasons why we will vote for it to go to a select committee hearing, but no further. Our coalition agreement with ACT stipulates we will \u201Cintroduce a Treaty principles bill based on existing ACT policy and support it to a select committee as soon as practicable.\u201D We will honour this commitment and support this bill to select committee. We will also honour our pre-election commitment and vote against the bill at second reading. It is important to point out that compromises like this are at the heart of the MMP system that New Zealanders voted to introduce before the 1996 election and reaffirmed their support of at the 2011 referendum. I suspect neither the National Party nor the ACT Party have achieved exactly what they want with the outcome of this debate, but that is the reality of forming coalitions under MMP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022\u003EYes, the Treaty is a topic of debate in this country, and it has been for the almost 200\u00A0years since its signing, and different people will have different views about what it means. But the things that people stop me in the street about, in my electorate, are the same things that National is squarely focused on addressing. How do they pay the mortgage or the rent? How do they fill the car or the shopping trolley? How do they find work after their freezing works is shut down? How do we make our community safe? How do they get the healthcare they need, when they need it? How do they make sure their kids are equipped with the skills that they need to live better lives than their parents did? That is not to say that this issue is not important to some people. The select committee process will allow everyone who wants to make a submission and have their say. But to suggest that this bill would put an end to nearly two centuries of debate is not practical, nor is it realistic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022\u003EWhile National does not support this bill becoming law, as chair of the Justice Committee and out of respect for our parliamentary process and the institutions of this House, it is my job to ensure submissions are heard respectfully and in line with the Standing Orders, and it is my commitment to do just that. So I just simply and respectfully ask that all members do the same as this bill is considered over the coming months. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill be read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b7a27ef6929444fab16e2701dd514b8\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ffa7f5301334237b56a9653dae6587e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re in the middle of a vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220359f300bba14ec9af1f1a2597c8b0e3\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I call that a personal vote\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3f03e0a561e41bb9a0830bbf2f0f57d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, sit down. We\u2019re in the middle of a vote. The Ayes have it. A party vote has been called for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4c0ac7af0f34b1d97f127beb839a169\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207c13a3b6c034acfb6039fecee01a7fd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A party vote has been called for. There is a process here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222ebe93c916924ba69ac61864bd8f7e29\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill be read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E[Members perform the haka \u201CKa Mate\u201D on the floor of the House]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022bece6ffb1a88487f8c016d0f868bd692\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bece6ffb1a88487f8c016d0f868bd692\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, don\u2019t do that. The House is suspended until the ringing of the bells. The gallery is to be cleared.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 4.05 p.m. to 4.31 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022535f56ad2ce54360acbe4e5977ee4790\u0022\u003ENaming and Suspension of Member\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221edb4cba70ab4f31a7e412a581caa6e1\u0022\u003ENaming and Suspension of Member\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022e47598b900e743d89f9ef5c37d248f60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e47598b900e743d89f9ef5c37d248f60\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: At the end of the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill, Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke misused the voting procedure to stage a protest. Other members joined in. The result is that the vote was not declared and the bill has not yet been read a first time. I\u2019ll proceed to that shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EFirstly, the matter of misconduct, appalling disrespectful conduct inside the House: premeditated actions to disrupt the House by one of its members is grossly disorderly and I name Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke. Therefore, the question is that Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke be suspended from the service of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e11eddbca4fd4e2e86b2dfc6fd829f6d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke be suspended from the service of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b671f107fcd04c6e93dd1fe933ba670f\u0022\u003EPrinciples of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225ec0ad6ef0ef4e9697cc0a119cca5fdd\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000417\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022 data-id=\u002276bb8261b6544a4ab78d5dbbe5429d4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276bb8261b6544a4ab78d5dbbe5429d4b\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f03108e917314e579022b846a59f341c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, remembering that I haven\u2019t yet declared a vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b67f38526922420aad2b0636986b6398\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: It was on that question, though.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fc67838d58f4613bed23a113962f516\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233ede6cbf0954bd0ba8573419d9bd24a\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: I call that a personal vote be held on that question which has just been put, under Standing Order 142.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u002250914eaaabab4b2f8153560a86ab1938\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250914eaaabab4b2f8153560a86ab1938\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If you read the Standing Orders, you can\u2019t do that until you know what the vote is. It\u2019s quite clear. I\u2019ll just make this explanation, for anyone who is watching. The limitations on a Speaker accepting a motion for a personal vote are in our Standing Orders: reason to believe that there is a gap between the vote legitimately cast by party whips and the intentions of members. That needs to be signalled by a member; it cannot be called for by other members\u2014quite clear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EThe Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill: the Ayes are 68; the Noes are 55.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022 data-id=\u002248206c6b971d425e86152df5a52e2a8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248206c6b971d425e86152df5a52e2a8b\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. To be clear: the Green Party will allow all of our MPs to vote in line with their conscience and we will not\u00A0whip our MPs. So, on that note, I call for a personal vote to be held on that question on the Treaty principles bill at first reading, under Standing Order 142. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u002289650ee04ce141f4a51f69ef13b9c634\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289650ee04ce141f4a51f69ef13b9c634\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m not accepting that. The time for the Green Party to notify me or the Clerk that there was to be a personal vote by its members would have been before the party vote was cast. That is very clear. It\u2019s been clear for nearly\u2014how long? Since 1996. So there\u2019s nothing new in that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022 data-id=\u00223c167e00636641cab8e813e5025ad89e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c167e00636641cab8e813e5025ad89e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. I reflect on your naming of one member for grossly disorderly conduct. I wonder if others\u00A0who participated in the same action might also be suitable to name for doing the same thing; in particular, getting out of their seats and coming up to the desks of members from the opposite side of the House. As you know, that\u2019s been the subject of a matter of privilege. I wonder if your guidance is that it should be raised that way or if perhaps they too should be named.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc2f95135b664d59af0dfd0fc061f116\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc2f95135b664d59af0dfd0fc061f116\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, thank you for your question. I would suggest that if you think there has been a matter of privilege breached, then a letter stating that would be the next course of action. It is, in this case\u2014naming is a very serious thing, and I certainly don\u2019t do it lightly or with any degree of personal satisfaction whatsoever. But it is the instigator of the disorder that should receive that very, very high penalty. If you think there is more to be done, then write me a letter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EThe question is, That the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill be considered by the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022eb01bb6ec1314fb7b87af40d5daf499a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A05.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000432\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 68, Noes 55.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000433\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Justice Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226cd59fbc43514345b87885d951821320\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228d39cb614786479aae5db029c7530498\u0022\u003EDefence Act 1990\u2014Extension of Authorisations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022 data-id=\u0022db40b1cb899448f28affd14382b82c25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db40b1cb899448f28affd14382b82c25\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Associate Minister of Defence) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Defence: I move, That, under section 9(8) of the Defence Act 1990, the following authorisations given on 5\u00A0November 2024 and 11\u00A0November 2024 to use the armed forces to provide public services in connection with an industrial dispute be extended to 14\u00A0February 2025:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EAuthority for the use of appropriately trained members of the armed forces located at RNZAF Base Auckland to provide aircraft rescue and firefighting services; \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EAuthority for the use of appropriately trained members of the armed forces posted to HQNZDF, Trentham and Linton Military Camps to provide security guard services for Defence House and Pipitea House, Wellington; \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EAuthority for the use of appropriately trained members of the armed forces located at specified camps and bases to provide security guard services at those camps and bases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EAs my colleague and friend the Hon Judith Collins KC advised the House yesterday, as Minister of Defence, she had authorised the use of the armed forces to perform a public service in connection with an industrial dispute. The purpose of this motion is to advise the House of the period of time for which that authorisation will apply. On 5\u00A0November, the New Zealand Defence Force received an official notice from the New Zealand Public Service Association\u2014the PSA\u2014that strike action would occur from 6\u00A0November to 31\u00A0January. Among other things, this will impact security guard and firefighting services at various camps and bases across New Zealand. The Minister of Defence, in line with section 9(2) of the Defence Act, has authorised the use of appropriately trained members of the armed forces to provide security guard services at certain defence areas, and for appropriately trained members of the armed forces to provide aircraft rescue firefighting service at base Auckland, in Whenuapai.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EIt is in the public interest that the security of defence areas and firefighting services can be maintained throughout the industrial dispute, to ensure the safety, preservation of life, and the protection of critical infrastructure and assets. Simply put, the New Zealand Defence Force can only maintain our national security by ensuring these camps and bases are kept safe and secure. These actions, authorised by the Minister of Defence, are necessary to maintain public\u00A0health and safety. Further, the defence force continues to bargain in good faith with the PSA. These are hard-speak questions, and they\u2019re not made lightly. The New Zealand Defence Force effectively went into this financial year with less operating expenditure than the previous year due to cost pressures such as rising fuel and power costs. The defence force\u00A0has, therefore, undergone a rapid reprioritisation of its budget to ensure that ships, aircraft, equipment, and personnel are ready to respond when needed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the valuable contributions that civilian staff in the New Zealand Defence Force make in service of New Zealand\u2019s national security. And, of course, I acknowledge that along with the contribution, likewise, that is made by our uniformed personnel. Unfortunately, we do not live in a benign strategic environment, and so it is a fact of life that the defence force must prioritise core military outputs in the current fiscal environment in order to support our international partners and ensure that New Zealand does its bit for the\u00A0international rules-based order. While the current industrial action is an operational matter, I place on record that I have, and the Minister of Defence in this Government has, complete faith in the Chief of Defence Force to prioritise accordingly in the current fiscal environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022 data-id=\u00228700507bada7412eaef73cac19a776be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228700507bada7412eaef73cac19a776be\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I wanted to take the opportunity to respond to this motion as moved by the Associate Minister of Defence on behalf of the Hon Judith Collins KC. I wanted to briefly touch on the circumstances surrounding these quite unusual notices and authorisations that the Associate Minister has\u00A0made, and I also want to put forward an amendment to the motion which has been tabled by the Associate Minister today. I will speak to that motion and then I will be tabling that amendment as well, but I think it\u2019s important for the House to note that a thousand defence force personnel have given notice to go on strike, and the dates that they have proposed to go on strike are from 6\u00A0November until 31 January.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003ENow, the circumstances of this particular strike, I dare say\u2014and I dare say there\u2019s probably agreement across the House\u2014were not entered into lightly by the civilian members of the defence force who decided to take this strike action. It is important to note that the circumstances of that were that they received a zero\u00A0percent offer from their employers in relation to their most recent pay negotiation. It won\u2019t be news to this House that there\u2019s been significant increases in terms of inflation in recent times, and for those members of the civilian staff to then receive a zero\u00A0percent increase should not be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc2d7231066e4a7baafaf9846f22b3df\u0022\u003EHon Chris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s what you gave us for six years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba409e2da02c446ea1cbaab507e3f59f\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually, the previous Government did actually look at giving pay increases to civilian staff, I understand. Certainly, the zero\u00A0percent offer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223165d8b295284104b71fc090096ee122\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: What about people in uniform? Do you care about them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cc7dae00cb14aa1afcad05051eba858\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member like to take a call to ask some of these questions? I would welcome that. I don\u2019t get to answer questions in this House. I\u2019m not a Minister. I am simply making a suggestion to amend and noting the circumstances, and I\u2019m sure that member has as much respect as I do for the civilians in the defence force who are on strike at the moment, and additionally for the members of the defence force who have been, as a result of this motion, asked to perform the work of the civilian defence force; showing, I think, proving, the essential nature of the work that the civilian staff do and the importance of the work not only to their day-to-day jobs but, in fact, as we\u2019ve seen in many of these authorisations that have been made, to the workings of the defence force.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003ENow, these circumstances, I would offer, are entirely of the Government\u2019s making. They have chosen to cut parts of the defence budget, which has resulted in this quite astonishing zero\u00A0percent offer to staff. This is the cause of this strike. The Minister has then taken quite an extraordinary act, which has only been\u2014and I asked the Parliamentary Library to research this\u2014used on a few occasions in our recent history; once in 1996 and in 2001, as has been\u00A0recently covered in the media, and again, I understand, in 2018 by Ron Mark. This is a very, very rare power. One of the things that I\u2019m interested in, which I would hope that the Minister is able to provide to the House, is advice on why this quite extraordinary step needed to be taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003EThere are provisions in the Employment Relations Act when there are concerns around the health and safety of striking workers to actually replace those staff. What advice has been taken\u2014it would be very helpful to find that out\u2014on why that particular provision couldn\u2019t be used? That is a provision which is used in all other industrial disputes when\u2014I think it\u2019s section 97\u2014there is a need, for safety reasons, as you can imagine, when some of these roles are firefighters at airports and they need to be filled in this particular instance. Why has the Minister decided to take this extraordinary step when there was a much better\u2014actually, two clear options available to her? The first is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7b9826b18a74cdba4ab28bd6a8e808e\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: Like pay more money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022474696ccb8ce4ebaa6179f885276f079\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, exactly; paying more money\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225a5f483ced34175ab99af69458260fe\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s always the answer, isn\u2019t it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228608f0f11ea847ba8095d707cfba730a\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and recognising the service of defence staff. Members opposite laugh but they clearly have an important role. A zero\u00A0percent pay increase for defence staff is absolutely shocking, and it is undoubtedly the cause of us using Parliament\u2019s time now\u2014because of that offer. It\u2019s why these people had to take this extraordinary action. That is a very important thing that needs to be addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Defence could solve this problem if she wanted to. She obviously does want to interfere in this dispute because she\u2019s taken this extraordinary step of providing these authorisations. My question\u2014and I leave it hanging in the House, in lieu of an answer\u2014is: why was her decision to involve herself in this particular dispute the one that was less likely to solve the problem? Why didn\u2019t she decide to say to the parties, \u201CGet back to the table. Negotiate in good faith. We respect both parties. We respect you as an employer, New Zealand Defence Force, and we respect the work that your civilian staff do.\u201D Why did she not decide to do that if she decided to involve herself in it? That is, I think, a very important question that is begging to be answered. Instead, we have a few notes that have been made on 5\u00A0November and on 11\u00A0November that authorise the use of defence staff to fill these civilian roles during the strike action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003ENow, I don\u2019t know why\u2014and I\u2019m also looking for an answer to this\u2014a notice was put forward on 5\u00A0November but was not reported to the House until yesterday. It is very clearly the intention of section\u00A09 of the Defence Act that this is raised at the earliest possible opportunity in the House. Why has that not taken place? I think that\u2019s a very important issue in terms of the application and the correct use of section\u00A09 of the Defence Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003EI do have an amendment to make to this, and I think it\u2019s one that the Minister should consider accepting. That amendment is to look at the wording of this particular motion, which has been tabled in the House. This motion allows striking workers to be replaced by defence staff until 14\u00A0February 2025. This is inconsistent with the times of the strike dates. The strike notice is until 31\u00A0January 2025, so that leaves, effectively, a two-week period where there is no strike notice, yet there is an authorisation from the Minister in this House for that work to be filled. Why is there this inconsistency? I cannot see any logic to it. If another Minister on the other side of the House would seek to take a call on that, I\u2019d be interested to hear it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003EI would like to move, That the words \u201C14\u00A0February 2025\u201D be replaced with the words \u201C31\u00A0January 2025\u201D. The reason I\u2019m suggesting that is because I cannot see any logical reason why these authorisations need to go on for two weeks longer than the strike notices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003EThere may be other amendments to make in relation to the reviews and the amount of information that is provided to the House and whether in fact this extension should go ahead, but, at minimum, I cannot see any right reason why the Minister would not accept this amendment, which would allow consistency between the authorisation and the dates where the authorisation applies. I will be shortly tabling that amendment, and I very much hope that the Minister will accept that to at least provide some consistency in the record keeping in relation to this very unusual move that has taken place in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003EI again urge the Minister and the parties to try and get around the table and solve this issue so that we\u2019re not wasting House time talking about bargaining when we could be doing other things to address concerns that New Zealanders have, like the cost of living, the environment, and all of the other concerns that are present in people\u2019s minds, and not this particular issue which is involving a Minister of the Crown in an industrial dispute, very unusually and not with the efficiency it would take in order to solve this particular dispute through actually providing additional funding to Defence to allow them to offer a pay increase that was respectful and along the lines of the inflationary period we have just endured.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u00220f821cafe926477f81e73556591d1b9e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f821cafe926477f81e73556591d1b9e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the question before the House for debate is that the amendment be agreed to. The amendment is now debatable together with the motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002242629c0cd0fe47a8a794d4696abb9499\u0022\u003EVoting\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022164a07bc2b714c96947a9703176bdf6a\u0022\u003ECorrection\u2014Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill, Referral to Justice Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u0022c033b783592b49c583ea300272dcf010\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c033b783592b49c583ea300272dcf010\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the next call, can I just inform members that six votes were cast by Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori on the vote on the referral to the Justice Committee of the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill. Five votes should have been cast by Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori due to the suspension of Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke. Accordingly, the vote is corrected as 68 votes in favour and 54 votes opposed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221908f6028882404c8ba2117d6ca62d2b\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d7672433b9734121b4ad6df8fbb00984\u0022\u003EDefence Act 1990\u2014Extension of Authorisations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000465\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u00221e410c569eec48bcb1b795a548516ef9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e410c569eec48bcb1b795a548516ef9\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022507e5401f67e48158fe46728af211556\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022507e5401f67e48158fe46728af211556\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I was just listening to Camilla Belich\u2019s contribution there and it occurred to me that there are actually some quite pertinent questions asked. Yes, this is a debate on a motion\u2014it\u2019s not a committee of the whole House stage\u2014but I do wonder whether it might be helpful to the House to provide clarity on the restrictions on the number of calls, because, whilst the Associate Minister of Defence is under no obligation whatsoever to answer questions, it might be useful for all members to hear from you that if, indeed, a Minister chose to answer those questions to assist the debate, no member would be under any restrictions on the number of calls they take as a result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u00220872628d489e45489fbec88c385199ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220872628d489e45489fbec88c385199ab\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that point of order. I will take more advice as I take the next call, but my understanding at the moment is that, when an amendment is put on the floor, as in the case of Camilla Belich, the Associate Minister of Defence is able to take a follow-up call on that, but I will confirm that with advice from the Clerk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022 data-id=\u0022685bb06d0bea49caa8f2e9cb6823927c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022685bb06d0bea49caa8f2e9cb6823927c\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I think, from a Green Party perspective, I do want to lay out our view as to why we are here debating this motion of notice No. 1 from the Government. While yesterday we heard a lot that some of these negotiations were an operational matter, they have to be contextualised around decisions that this Government has made to underfund our Public Service entities, which has actually resulted, and then operational matters around salary issues playing out. We cannot decouple those two things. This is the direct result of austerity politics. The stuff that we\u2019re debating right now is actually deeply unusual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EYesterday, we heard a lot about how the work that civilians do at the defence force is \u201Clife-preserving\u201D. I think this cannot be understated, right? When there are extreme weather events or fires, we rely on our civilian defence force to preserve life. Now, we\u2019re debating the extension of the authorisation for that civilian workforce to be replaced by armed forces. I take the point that the Minister of Defence was raising yesterday around how the civilian workforce performs tasks that do require a lot of skills and training, and cannot easily be replaced, but at the same time, I was quite shocked at, I guess, the dismissal from the Minister at the time around genuine questions on whether alternatives had been sought around this course of action. I have similar questions as well, regarding the dates in relationship to the extension of these authorisations, so far as we know them\u2014they\u2019re from 11\u00A0November to 14\u00A0February. That\u2019s almost three months, and I cannot see why. For example, we could have come back in a two-week period or at least in the next sitting week, to then, once we\u2019d allowed those two weeks to play out, discuss whether an extension would have been needed. It kind of felt pre-emptive. I guess my first question is in relationship to the dates. I\u2019m curious to know as to what advice the Minister sought around those options.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EI do think Camilla Belich\u2019s amendment is really useful for us to take into account, because if we think about when we\u2019re coming back after the summer break, I think there are opportunities for this House to debate whether a further extension would have been needed, right? Because of how unusual these extensions are, I think the Government should do scrutiny and debate around whether, actually, we need to wait way beyond the time we come back to the House, after the new year, to even know if these negotiations have been resolved or whether we need to end such authorisations. I actually think it would even better for the Government to enable scrutiny, say on the first week coming back. I think that would have been quite fair. There\u2019s going to be a break for Waitangi\u2014and all good; I do think that political attention should be in relationship to what is going on at Waitangi after the first sitting week\u2014but there\u2019s nothing that would have stopped the Government to enable these orders and these extensions to, basically, be debated on the first week coming back. I think that\u2019s an incredibly fair request from Camilla Belich, and the Green Party backs that amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really curious, and the Green Party is curious, to understand why the Minister wouldn\u2019t accept that. As has been canvassed, because of how unusual these extensions are and actually the consequences of having armed personnel replacing a civilian workforce, I think, again\u2014and the nature of the job that they perform\u2014it\u2019s really important that we allow scrutiny of them. I\u2019m also curious to know around arrangements that will be made over the summer, and for the Minister to actually expand, for the public\u2019s benefit, the arrangements that these armed forces will be performing over the summer break, and then also the exceptional circumstances that require these. I guess, the budgetary decisions that create these circumstances in some ways I don\u2019t think are that exceptional\u2014they are of the Government\u2019s own doing. It\u2019s not like we had something outside of the Government\u2019s control that created these conditions. In fact, some people could argue that they could have predicted this happening. In fact, that would have necessitated this extension.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EI note the Speaker is receiving advice, so, at any point, feel free to interrupt me to give us an update, but for now, I think, I do want to invite the Minister to give a reflection as to Camilla Belich\u2019s amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EI also want to understand why the Government would be against us debating this in the first week? Is it that perhaps they\u2019ve got more controversial legislation in place that they\u2019re hoping to get through in that first week, without being interrupted by a debate in the first week coming back? I think, to me, like, the way that this has happened, I don\u2019t think the Government has engaged in the debate. Yesterday definitely didn\u2019t give us the impression that the Government is operating in a good-faith way when it comes to just genuine questions around advice around the considerations that we\u2019re giving. Again, these are quite extraordinary tools that the Government is tapping into.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EWith that, I will, I hope, allow the Minister to engage with the amendment on the advice that he would have received around the specific reasoning for 14 February, and I hope that we can move forward constructively, because, again, this is no minor issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EFinally, I do want to move forward in the debate around some of the arguments that were said yesterday around the Green Party\u2019s position on the funding of the New Zealand Defence Force. I want to make it really clear that we should separate our political arguments around the funding of the defence force for the purposes of waging war versus actually life-preserving services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a57323d80a0d4234b48e610672e9c900\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what we do. That\u2019s all we ever did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022577c81d442924b0b9260aab8699cc463\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, I think this is important, because if we have Ministers yesterday making accusations around this, I think it\u2019s an important point to be made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf9cc3fde6ea44a1bb80c6ff425aec6e\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: No one made accusations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bb6e87a9ce143aa81e930477ef87dc2\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you may have not been listening yesterday, but that was what\u2019s been happening. The Green Party does have a longstanding position around what the defence force should be used for. I do think it\u2019s important that the public\u00A0has the means to know that the Public Service is there to back them\u2014should, for example, a fire break in the vicinity of someone\u2019s livelihood\u2014and that they know they will have the resources to be supported. With that, I will allow more contributions from other members of the Opposition, and the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u0022c06247deee764ee6b8ae1f04b57a2ddd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c06247deee764ee6b8ae1f04b57a2ddd\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Just to inform the House to the point of the Hon Kieran McAnulty: I was right, but in terms of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1fde8f1ce0842738d60f910deaebb72\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! Good on you!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e63df14cdb54689b56e2dd84c52bcbd\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve got to own something, guys. But, for further clarification, may I draw members\u2019 attention to Standing Orders 124 through to 130. There\u2019s a bit more detail in terms of the ability to speak to further amendments. The way that it works, if there is an amendment that has been tabled: if you have spoken before, you can then speak to that new amendment\u2014and there are a couple of other things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022 data-id=\u00228ef29949366b4867871055d07602008a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ef29949366b4867871055d07602008a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Associate Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity just to respond very briefly to the amendment that is on the Table, which I think deserves consideration to the extent that I feel the need to point out that the Government regards it as prudent to provide a notice that will be long enough, at least until such time as the industrial action takes place, and a bit longer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EThe reason for additional time could well be\u2014well, number one, I suppose if in unforeseen circumstances the industrial action were somehow prolonged, but actually even if not, then as a matter of practicality to allow a couple of weeks for rosters to be put on so that people know, from one day to the next, when they are going to be required to turn up and do their shifts, including overnight, at all hours of the day. Of course, we require our personnel to be on standby for accidents\u2014God forbid\u2014in terms of aircraft crashing, for example, or on security gates and so on, so a little bit of lead time is prudent to allow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EOf course, I also just finally add the obvious point that the notice can be cancelled at any time, so we\u2019re very hopeful that the matter will be able to be resolved not only before 14\u00A0February but also before 30 or 31\u00A0January, and, indeed, as soon as possible. As I said at the start, I\u2019m very confident that the Chief of Defence Force and his team will work constructively in good faith. No doubt, the Public Service Association and their respective members will too, and we wish all parties the best to reach a satisfactory resolution as soon as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022 data-id=\u00223108116a45c14dd4b73ab695db60d2ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223108116a45c14dd4b73ab695db60d2ac\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you, and thanks to the Associate Minister of Defence for that contribution. I really enjoy and value his plain-spoken presentations in the House. We\u2019re here today debating this motion because 1,000 civilian defence force staff will go on strike because of their zero\u00A0percent pay offer from the New Zealand Defence Force. This motion is to enable an extension to authorisations for orders made by the Minister of Defence to replace the striking uniformed civilian staff with uniformed staff. This includes for important roles to do with health and safety, such as aircraft rescue and firefighters and security staff at bases. No one is doubting the importance of that work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003EWe might cast wider when we think, \u201CWell, why are we really here?\u201D As my colleague Camilla Belich has noted, we are here because there was a zero\u00A0percent pay offer to those civilian defence staff this year at a time when members of the Government have been declaring widely that there has been a cost of living crisis. Well, surely those hard-working people fulfilling these essential functions are also entitled to have their wages keep up with\u00A0inflation. The Labour Party supports the rights of workers to be able to take a strike, to be able to work with their unions, and to have their employer\u2014even if it is the New Zealand Defence Force\u2014come to the table to negotiate with them and to constructively resolve this dispute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003EI want to reflect on the comments made by the Minister in relation to the earlier motion yesterday. At that stage, the Minister\u2014I appreciate it was Minister Collins\u2014made comments which I\u2019ll paraphrase as not letting these important functions go unstaffed, such as fire crews and security. Well, that is actually not the choice that is before the Government. The choice before the Government was how much to fund the defence force in the first place. The choices that this Government made were made in Budget 2024-25 when they set the funding envelope for the defence force in the context of a Budget that had marked cuts to public services across all votes, but defence was not exempt. The defence budget\u2014total Vote Defence\u2014was $4.949\u00A0billion for this financial year, which was a $308\u00A0million reduction on\u00A0the budget for the preceding year. That is why the defence force is in the situation it is in. That is why the staff have been offered a zero\u00A0percent pay increase in the context of recent\u00A0inflationary pressure. That is why the defence force is also undergoing 200 voluntary redundancies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003EIt is the choices this Government has made when it promised tax cuts to landlords, tax cuts to tobacco companies, and set commitments about their Budget prior to the election that did not add up. As a result, public servants of all sorts, including those civilian members of our defence force, are unable to get the pay they deserve. It is easy to get into the weeds of how on earth this piece of rarely used legislation is being invoked in this particular instance. I am lucky to have skilled employment lawyers in my caucus who can take the Government to task on that, but I am not one of those. I just want to reflect on the fact that it is the overall funding environment that has created such a limited set of choices for the defence force and they cannot treat their staff as well as I am sure defence leadership aspires to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003EIt has been a tough time for public servants across the Public Service, defence, and elsewhere. They have often heard their service\u2014their essential service to our country\u2014reflected as being mere bureaucrats. That is not OK. It is not OK to malign these people who serve our public. In this debate, we\u2019re not talking about the uniformed members of the armed forces; we\u2019re talking about the civilians who help them do their job every day, but they are just as important. They are just as important to the efforts to recover the Manawanui. They are just as important to the pilots being able to fly the planes safely, to know that they can have a safe landing with fire crew at the other end, but this Government has demonised public servants. They have just used that demonisation to justify large-scale cuts of the Public Service. Defence is only one of many agencies having 6\u00A0percent cuts across the board. This has caused multiple impacts for the services themselves. We see that this type of trajectory for our public services is one that happens across the board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve looked at the Budget documents while preparing for this debate, and you see annual increases to the combined operational expenditure and capital expenditure defence budget under the last Government, and then they all step down, going down from here. That is the impact of the Budget that this Government sitting across from me passed. These consequences\u2014strikes from people running our essential services\u2014are the consequences of that Government\u2019s decisions. This will happen over and over and over again. It is unusual that we have to debate it in the House because of the legislation that is being invoked, but it is just one of many examples about how our public services are being taken backwards by this Government. We hear about it in health, where we know\u00A0that voluntary redundancies are removing vital support staff from across services. We hear about it in education, where many of the back-office staff are being removed there. The idea that these sorts of cuts\u20146\u00A0percent cuts\u2014cannot impact the front line is absolutely wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s happening to the front line under this motion? Well, the defence force was probably where the very definition of the idea of a front line came from. The front line is being pulled into doing other jobs. They\u2019re being pulled into doing jobs that non-uniformed staff usually do. We are reducing and hampering the front line, when there are many demands on their time, because of this Government\u2019s cost-cutting agenda.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227aceeac7eef5448ebdcc5702f06958b6\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: Like isolation hotels, for example?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd95f12f0e834a65854a5bcdae6d1f2a\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I just welcome the member who has so much to say about this to come over here and run a response to a national emergency, and then can lecture me about what to do in that situation. When you\u2019ve saved 20,000 lives in a health emergency, come and tell me how to run a Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003EThis Government will want to take cheap shots again and again, because fundamentally they are unwilling to face up to the consequences of the Budget that they passed\u2014the Budget that never added up before the election and the Budget that now will have multiple consequences as years go on. We see it regularly in this city. We see it in the number of our young people leaving. We see it in the fact that many people have lost their jobs. And we see it in the fact that even those who do have their jobs feel so insecure precisely because of events like this\u2014voluntary redundancies, zero pay offers\u2014that they don\u2019t have any money to spend. The knock-on effects are that other businesses are going out of business. The Wellington hospitality sector is struggling, retail is struggling; all of this because of the\u00A0decisions that Government has made in its Budget. It does mean that over time we are facing an erosion of public services. Bit by bit, things are being nibbled away\u2014whereas we made progress. We managed to invest in new aircraft for our defence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003EWe see under this Government again and again the rug is pulled out from public services that New Zealanders need and depend on. Overall, both the capital expenditure and the operational expenditure goes backwards. We end up in a situation where we have industrial action like this. These are the consequences of that Government\u2019s poor choice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b901ff576d064334ab2f5bdccdb98c32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b901ff576d064334ab2f5bdccdb98c32\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, I was motivated to make a contribution and draft an amendment to this after the Associate Minister of Defence\u2019s response. I find the Associate Minister to be a reasonable man and indeed it was a reasonable response, but it did make me wonder: what is the purpose of this extension? This is a very rare thing for Parliament to consider, and not only is it rare to consider an extension, I\u2019m not aware of an example where an extension is sought that goes for so long. The provisions available to the Minister of Defence in the Defence Act allow her to make a decision to authorise properly trained defence personnel to do a particular task for 14 days\u2014two weeks\u2014and anything beyond that, the Minister is required to come to the House and that\u2019s why we are here today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003ENow, there\u2019s a reason that 14 days was the original number, because this is an extraordinary measure for a Minister to move and so it was deliberately restricted to a fortnight. What we are being asked to do is to support an extension motion for the exact same reasons that were given yesterday by the Minister, but all the way out to 14\u00A0February. Nothing given today is any different to the reasons given yesterday. Those reasons were to justify 14 days; we would have expected something more compelling to justify all the way up to 14 February.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003EIf Parliament has risen for the Christmas period and an emergency arises, the Minister has a provision to go through the Governor-General to seek these powers, but whilst Parliament is sitting, the Minister requires the support of Parliament to be able to do this. But why all the way out to 14\u00A0February? The Associate Minister, in response to the amendment moved by Camilla Belich, says that, for practical reasons, the Government would like these extraordinary powers to be available until the industrial action is concluded, with a little bit of wriggle room at the end to allow for logistics and shift changes, etc.\u2014fine\u2014but at the heart of this is an industrial disagreement and there\u2019s industrial action in play. There are negotiations under way between the civilian staff in the Ministry of Defence and the Ministry of Defence. Both parties are required to act in good faith. How is it good faith for this Parliament to send a message to those workers that they shouldn\u2019t expect a resolution until at\u00A0least 14 February?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003ENow, that\u2019s not good faith. If the Government is determined to negotiate in this industrial action in good faith, it certainly shouldn\u2019t be asking for extraordinary powers all the way through to halfway through February next year\u2014beyond new year\u2019s, beyond R\u0101tana, and beyond Waitangi Day. There are a lot of things that are going to happen in people\u2019s lives between now and 14 February\u2014Christmas being one. These workers who are entering into industrial action in good faith, in the hope of being able to settle this before Christmas, are being sent a message today by this motion. It is saying, \u201CYou should expect to go through Christmas and New Year\u2019s with uncertainty hanging over the wages and conditions that you are working under.\u201D, and I think that\u2019s wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003EThe other reason that I wish to propose an amendment is that in passing this, Parliament would be accepting the implication that the Government is giving\u2014that there is no need for further debate. If the Defence Act only gives the Minister the power for 14 days, there\u2019s a good reason for that. It is because any extension beyond that needs to be justified at every\u00A0step. I think this is an overreach. I think that for the purposes of potentially undermining the bargaining but also definitely restricting the opportunity of Parliament to have a debate on this matter, the Minister is pushing it out to 14\u00A0February. Why couldn\u2019t we apply the same rationale and approve an extension of 14 days, exactly the same amount that the Minister has available to her under the Defence Act, and then come back to Parliament and justify it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e81b296cccb1444f88ed4b45461b4e24\u0022\u003EHon Chris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re not sitting that week or the one after that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022582f4543dfbb4e7897c9c76fa40f8003\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: The answer is that we\u2019re not sitting that week, which is exactly why I\u2019m not proposing that. What I am proposing is, in a practical way, a month. A month would be a Saturday. I\u2019ll get in front of the Minister and say that I\u2019m not proposing that either, but I am proposing the following Tuesday\u2014the first opportunity that Parliament will have after a month from this date, assuming that it gets passed, and, to be honest, the quality of the contributions suggests that there is a lot that people want to have a say about on this, so it might not. A month from today, until the next Tuesday\u2014that happens to be the last sitting week of this sitting calendar year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003ENow, the Government hasn\u2019t confirmed this, but chances are Parliament\u2019s going to knock off on Wednesday, 18\u00A0December of that week. They\u2019ve pretty much confirmed it at the Business Committee, or at least we figured it out and Simeon Brown didn\u2019t deny it and that\u2019s good enough for me. The 18th December is likely to be the last sitting day, so what I\u2019m proposing is, That we amend this extension motion to replace \u201C14\u00A0February 2025\u201D with \u201C17\u00A0December 2024\u201D. I\u2019ll be tabling that at the conclusion of my contribution. That\u2019s twice the amount of time that the Minister has available to her in the Act. It\u2019s allowing the extension that the Government is proposing, but it doesn\u2019t go all the way\u2014almost two months later. This motion proposes 14\u00A0February; I\u2019m proposing 17\u00A0December.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003EWhat that will mean is if the Minister does wish for a further extension, she can come to Parliament and explain why and can justify it, and, in doing so, potentially give an update as to the negotiations and the industrial action where appropriate, because the House deserves to know. At the heart of this are workers who are facing a zero\u00A0percent pay rise. Now, I don\u2019t intend to go into those reasons\u2014others may wish to and others already have, and I\u2019m sure there\u2019s many reasons they haven\u2019t been touched on\u2014but the fact is that is why\u00A0they are striking, and the Labour Party will always support their right to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s an expectation that both parties act in good faith. I don\u2019t believe that the Ministry of Defence can act in good faith if this Parliament sends them a message that they actually don\u2019t need to engage with the union or engage with the workers until next year: \u201CWell, it\u2019s a busy time of year. We\u2019re coming up to December. Everyone\u2019s got a lot on. We\u2019ve got a lot on our plate. We\u2019re thinking about other things.\u201D I\u2019m sure the Ministry of Defence, given the current circumstances around the world, has a lot to think about at the moment, and it would be very convenient for them to just leave this until next year when everyone has a break and comes back. This actually suggests to them that they can do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003EWhere does that leave the workers? They\u2019re already facing zero\u00A0percent\u2014facing the cost of living, dealing with zero\u00A0percent pay increases, with rates, with insurance, with rent all going up\u00A0at\u00A0record levels. That is not a pleasant prospect to face heading into Christmas and New\u00A0Year\u2019s. As a message to the Ministry of Defence and a message to those workers, if we amend this today to 17 December, it\u2019ll say, \u201CYou keep negotiating; we will revisit this. Ideally, by 17 December, before Christmas, you would have resolved this and there\u2019ll be no need for an extension.\u201D I think it sends the wrong message and, frankly, I think the Minister deserves to justify any extension.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a pretty simple proposal; a pretty simple amendment. I\u2019m not wanting to fiddle around with the justifications as outlined\u2014the three bullet points in the motion\u2014it\u2019s simply to change \u201C14\u00A0February 2025\u201D to \u201C17\u00A0December 2024\u201D. I\u2019d be very interested to hear why the Government wouldn\u2019t support that. What could possibly be wrong with coming back to\u00A0Parliament on the last sitting week of the year for, say, an hour, an hour-and-a-half , or two-hour debate to justify why they need to extend it further?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u0022accc502313fc423e87d195aeb71686a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022accc502313fc423e87d195aeb71686a0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the question before the House for debate is that the amendment be agreed to. The amendment is now debatable together with the motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022 data-id=\u00222d3d42674a5344afb64587de01f70288\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d3d42674a5344afb64587de01f70288\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Following that contribution from my colleague the Hon Kieran McAnulty, which differs slightly from the amendment that I had put up, I think it is incumbent on me to make some comments about his amendment that he has made, which does make a lot of sense to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003EI think that it\u2019s really important to remember, when we talk about the fact that there are uniformed personnel from the defence force being seconded into work to cover striking workers, how fundamental the right to take industrial action is and where that comes from. When\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b82b1a67fb04e938d97710f14b3690a\u0022\u003EHon Chris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: Uniformed personnel don\u2019t have it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dda668e7b6164331b904da410a323a31\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: When there is a\u2014well, we\u2019re talking about civilian staff having the right to take industrial action. And that right to strike comes from the right of freedom of association.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003EThe International Labour Organization, which New Zealand participates in, has ratified many, many different conventions on this; and a lot of our domestic legislation, including the Employment Relations Act, recognises the right of freedom of association and sees the right to strike as a corollary to the right of the freedom of association. Because of this, when using these extreme powers\u2014which does impact on the industrial action of the civilian defence force who are permitted to take industrial action\u2014there are significant limitations on it, and that is why I support the amendment put forward by my colleague Kieran McAnulty. I think that it is fair enough that, when we have a piece of legislation decided on by this Parliament which puts such restrictions on the utilisation of uniformed officers to take over the work of striking workers, we need to respect that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003EI mean, if you read the piece of legislation; if you read the Defence Act 1990, if you look at section\u00A09, you will see how seriously the Parliament who passed this Act took this exceptional power. The reason that they put in the 14 days is, I think, reflective of how serious they thought utilisation of this power is. I do support the amendment of my colleague Kieran McAnulty, but I also have a slightly different amendment which I think could go alongside his amendment and would assist with making sure that there was accountability to this House. The amendment that I want to move, Mr Speaker, is that after on the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f85061538a5e4cf48ab141ee88bc35ae\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Just for clarity, Standing Order 130: \u201CA member who has moved \u2026 amendment may not move a further amendment\u201D. A member who has moved an amendment may not move a further amendment to the same question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5b895c8b3494ae69c69a7f636a7d311\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s OK; Glen will do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022438a8b4429f546c6af6f31a3780a9ed1\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that is OK. Glen will do it. Thank you, Mr Speaker. That was not my understanding of the procedures, but I\u2019m happy to take your guidance from it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226261b5142964e4ca8e64fe369553a70\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m here to help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7b431bca6304051a4c3d17fb6301613\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: I think the point stands that I would encourage my colleagues to put forward this amendment. If it can\u2019t be in my name, then hopefully another honourable member will put it forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003EI do consider that this amendment that I would speak to\u2014that I think would complement Mr McAnulty\u2019s amendment, which I am speaking to\u2014would assist the House in that it requires the Minister to report to the House every two weeks on the status of the resolution of the industrial action. Now, I actually think that is a very minor requirement in line with the spirit of section 9, and so I would encourage other colleagues to recognise that that is an important power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003EIn terms of Mr McAnulty\u2019s contribution and amendment, though, I do think that we haven\u2019t been provided with\u2014as he\u2019s said\u2014the additional reasons as to why such a significant extension would be given without the requirement on the Minister of Defence to come back and report to the House. The Minister provided an explanation to Parliament, as she was required to do, yesterday in the House, and she talked about the important work that the New Zealand Defence Force does and she talked about why it was important to have people covering important work for safety reasons, like the firefighters at airbases. She made a good point that you wouldn\u2019t ever expect to be in a civilian aeroplane and not have those emergency firefighting rescue services available, even at a domestic airport, and you certainly shouldn\u2019t expect that either at a defence airport or, in fact, at any place where aeroplanes are landing because this is one of the health and safety requirements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003EI do a lot of work on health and safety and a lot of consideration, as I know you do, Mr Assistant Speaker Tuiono\u2014but I\u2019m not wanting to bring you into this debate\u2014and health and safety is incredibly important. We\u2019re not arguing about that here, and I hope that the Minister and those opposite will reflect on the fact that that is not the basis and the thrust of our amendments and our contributions today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003EWe do not begrudge the Minister taking responsible decisions in terms of health and safety\u2014that is, of course, important\u2014but the Minister must also recognise the reason that we are in this particular situation, which is to do with the fact that the defence force and the Ministry of Defence are not in a position to pay their civilian workforce an adequate amount to account for their work and to account for the fact that they have had a number of significant costs in terms of the cost of living in recent times. That is the true reason for this. We\u2019re not saying that there shouldn\u2019t be adequate health and safety measures in place to ensure the safety of individuals\u2014that is, of course, essential\u2014but let\u2019s try and resolve this matter, and the way to resolve this matter is through resolving the industrial action that is being undertaken by these members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003EAs I said at the beginning of my contribution, we must recognise the spirit and the intent of the legislation which we\u2019re working under: the Defence Act 1990. I know that the Associate Minister of Defence will be very keen to refresh his memory around how important and how particular this piece of legislation is, and it doesn\u2019t take the right of undermining the industrial action, which I think it\u2019s fair to say that utilising additional labour to mitigate the impact of a strike is. It means that there has to be a review within 14\u00A0days. I think that is an effective period of time because you can get a lot of negotiating done\u00A0 in 14 days, and that is an appropriate time for there to be an update to the House and\u00A0for the Minister to come back to the House and extend, if needed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003EOf course we all want this industrial action to be resolved amicably to the satisfaction of both parties as soon as we possibly can. However, we\u2019re in a situation now where the Associate Minister has put on the table an extension until 14 February. We have put forward two reasonable, sensible, practical amendments which allow for the health and safety of the\u00A0personnel involved, and also to recognise the fact that there must be accountability to\u00A0the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003EI do support my colleague Kieran McAnulty\u2019s amendment. I also do think that if the Minister is not minded to support Mr McAnulty\u2019s amendment, there should be some accountability to this House. I would be interested to know, if the Minister\u2019s view is not to accept the amendment and the Government\u2019s view is not to vote for it\u2014and, obviously, they have a majority in this House and they can determine that. Why, within the spirit of this Act\u2014which was so carefully pored over by a Parliament in the past that required accountability\u2014would he not agree to additional reporting by the Minister to make sure that there is a spotlight on the parties to actually resolve this dispute and get everyone back to work, which is what I think we all want. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002233d6c990c64e41428c25aa2fcb7c3bf3\u0022 data-id=\u00220f0989788ebd4d6983af4b7f4495c0d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233d6c990c64e41428c25aa2fcb7c3bf3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f0989788ebd4d6983af4b7f4495c0d2\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Thank you for allowing me to take this call. I\u2019d like to elaborate a little bit on the comments that were made by the previous speaker, Camilla Belich. In her comments, she talked a little bit about some of the reasons why the defence force was facing quite significant pressure and why they were perhaps having trouble settling. She mentioned the cost of living crisis, which is no doubt an important factor, but she neglected to mention two key Government initiatives that have been passed recently, which I believe are quite significant contributors to, I guess, the reason why we\u2019re having this debate in the first place. Those two things are the baseline savings target exercise which all Government departments were required to meet\u2014all Government departments made cuts between, I believe, 5 to 7.5\u00A0percent, and that included the Ministry of Defence\u2014and the Government Workforce Policy Statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233d6c990c64e41428c25aa2fcb7c3bf3\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll go through why the baseline savings targets led to these cuts. Obviously, we heard the Minister of Defence speak yesterday about how the funding for the Ministry of Defence had been increased by $571\u00A0million, and, look, we have to recognise that that is\u00A0a significant increase in the context of this. We have to wonder, why is it, in the context of such large budget increases, that the Ministry of Defence is having such trouble actually negotiating for this pay? It seems like, if your department has just gotten a nearly $600\u00A0million increase, you shouldn\u2019t be offering zero-dollar pay increases to your civilian staff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233d6c990c64e41428c25aa2fcb7c3bf3\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s actually break down what that announcement was for\u2014the $571\u00A0million\u2014because I think it\u2019s important to illuminate. I did wonder how it is the case that a Government department that just got nearly $600\u00A0million can have such trouble actually paying workers what they\u2019re worth. We\u2019ve heard, and I recognise the contributions of the Associate Minister of Defence and members across the House, about how important these striking civilian workers are and what valuable roles they play across the defence industry, and the fact that we are debating this motion in the first place and the fact that they\u2019re even being replaced by\u00A0the military in the first place speaks to quite literally how\u2014well, I was going to say irreplaceable, but they\u2019re being replaced\u2014critical the roles are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233d6c990c64e41428c25aa2fcb7c3bf3\u0022\u003EOf this $571\u00A0million increase, $163\u00A0million would go to improving remuneration for the New Zealand Defence Force personnel and $408\u00A0million to upgrading equipment and infrastructure. All important things\u2014all things that are important for meeting the capability of the defence force\u2014but the issue is that the $163\u00A0million increase for remuneration was\u00A0for uniformed personnel only; I guess that\u2019s the key distinction here. The reason why the defence force is actually having trouble meeting the needs of the civilian workers who are striking is because the funding increase which was tagged to remuneration was for uniformed personnel in the first place. Nobody on this side of the House is saying that they\u00A0shouldn\u2019t have gotten those pay increases, that they shouldn\u2019t have gotten $163\u00A0million to boost remuneration for\u00A0them, but the issue is that this was not the case for the civilian workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233d6c990c64e41428c25aa2fcb7c3bf3\u0022\u003EIn fact, if we\u2019ve looked at what the civilian workers have had to go through\u2014and I\u2019m referring to I know (a) that was proactively released was they had to make cuts under the baseline savings targets, the non-uniform personnel. That was cuts of $7.5\u00A0million, so that affected the civilian personnel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233d6c990c64e41428c25aa2fcb7c3bf3\u0022\u003EAnother facet of that is that while the baseline savings target was imposed on the defence force, that meant that the people running your defence force had to come under pressure to actually find how to meet that savings target. I think because they\u2019re incentivised to be a little bit more aggressive on how they perhaps conduct these negotiations, they might have gotten a little bit overzealous. I think we would agree that literally a zero\u00A0percent increase in your wages, particularly at a time when there\u2019s been such cost of living pressures, is actually being quite aggressive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233d6c990c64e41428c25aa2fcb7c3bf3\u0022\u003EThis is why us in the Greens will be supporting the amendments that our colleagues and comrades in the Labour Party have put forward. We do need to make sure that we\u2019re actually putting a little bit of pressure on the Ministry of Defence to actually settle these claims and settle them in a fair way. The issue with the current time line is that they are quite far into the future, so it doesn\u2019t create any incentives. In fact, all the incentives are for them not to settle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233d6c990c64e41428c25aa2fcb7c3bf3\u0022\u003EI alluded to one of the things that I wanted to speak to earlier was the Government Workforce Policy Statement. Now, the Government Workforce Policy Statement that the public services Minister, the Hon Nicola Willis, published earlier this year\u2014I think it was in August\u2014said that remuneration had to be met within baseline. Because remuneration has to be met within baseline\u2014there\u2019s no additional funding\u2014that means that in the context of the baseline, which was already reduced by the baseline savings targets, that the people running defence have to choose between paying workers what they\u2019re worth and also upgrading the other operational aspects of defence and the other things that defence needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233d6c990c64e41428c25aa2fcb7c3bf3\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s not a context that\u2019s isolated in defence only\u2014the Government Workforce Policy Statement does apply across the wider public sector and we have to acknowledge that context\u2014but acknowledging and actually knowing the wider context doesn\u2019t actually mean that we actually need to support this action, even though the same level of cuts being imposed on defence are being imposed across the wider public sector, that doesn\u2019t mean that they\u2019re right or good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233d6c990c64e41428c25aa2fcb7c3bf3\u0022\u003EThe Government Workforce Policy Statement means that because they\u2019re having to compete between different funding priorities that this is putting great, great pressure on the Ministry of Defence to actually have to pick and choose. I think that is something that we, as a House, should be very careful about because when you allow the military to replace striking workers for any reason\u2014and, you know, as my colleague Camilla Belich spoke of earlier, we take no issue with the valid health and safety reasons why striking workers might need to be replaced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233d6c990c64e41428c25aa2fcb7c3bf3\u0022\u003EIf the Government is doing it in order to alleviate pressure on the Ministry of Defence to actually negotiate a fair settlement for the workers, because of the funding freeze that they\u2019ve essentially created, then that\u2019s something that is not a good justification for this Government notice of motion. This is why we in the Greens will be supporting the motion to cut the length of time, and this is why we in the Greens will also be advocating for wider policy solutions so that the actual cause of this motion\u2014which is the fact that the wider Public Service and, well, more specifically, defence and, more specifically, I guess, the civilian component of the Ministry of Defence has been gutted of funding\u2014then we need to actually overcome these barriers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233d6c990c64e41428c25aa2fcb7c3bf3\u0022\u003EOtherwise, we\u2019re just going to be sitting here in maybe\u2014well, I think the original motion was meant to be 14\u2014we\u2019re going to be sitting here again on 14 February with the Ministry of Defence again asking for this motion to be extended. Because if we\u2019re not dealing with the fundamental issues, then we\u2019re just going to be going around in circles again. As to avoid going around in circles with my contribution, Mr Speaker, I\u2019ll take a seat now. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022 data-id=\u00221f6aa3afc4b841ceb0b27ac8874cf5c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f6aa3afc4b841ceb0b27ac8874cf5c5\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb74e99addd34a18800606ff72e4ddc8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb74e99addd34a18800606ff72e4ddc8\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fa6b878067e41c499cc6cbff6344079\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I just wonder, for my clarity, if you could help me to understand. With respect to Standing Orders 124 through 130, I understand that each member can speak once, and if they have already spoken once, which some of these haven\u2019t, they can speak again after an amendment is made. I just wonder, at what point, given the content of the contributions, is the same argument\u2014and there appears to be, perhaps, a lot of repetition more targeted on the resolution of industrial disputes and funding, not the use of defence force\u00A0personnel under section 9 of the Act, which is indeed the question. I just wonder if you could provide some guidance as to where that balance lies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022865430c2c0a94ecca65f324055ac1b4d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, so, with the Standing Orders, members who haven\u2019t spoken are able to participate in the debate. I do note that Glen Bennett has yet to speak in this debate and possibly he might be proposing a new amendment, but I guess I make the reflection that, if people that have spoken previously want to take further calls on new amendments, which they are entirely allowed to do under Standing Orders, it would assist the House if those further comments were focused specifically on those amendments, appreciating some of the general comments that members have made previously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022deb57c82e87349e0beca38826aee63c1\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, point of order. I\u2019m concerned about what just played out there. It is very unruly for a member to move a closure motion to be ruled on and then do a point of order questioning the decision of the Chair. Now, it was very respectful and very calm, but that, in effect, is exactly what happened and you, as Chair, should not have to deal with that. If you look at what was proposed to you then, it was proposed immediately after you rose on a closure motion that in that member\u2019s view, there was grounds for that, but that was dealt with by you deciding to seek another call, and I don\u2019t believe you should have had to put up with that questioning of your ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d2488f292634266bbf775e0404ed016\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, thank you for that, the Hon Kieran McAnulty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c1fa4756fac4db5b02ea381ee93cc70\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Just speaking to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221af89529247b46a496167bae6e134d17\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I do want to move this debate on, so I do want this to be specific.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207631089caaa43fab733a3b0e14d66eb\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m happy for you to move it on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a005bf814cb4f53b96532020eab1bc6\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, have I got a deal for you: I am bringing you content to this conversation as the member who tried to comment on this. I do actually want to focus specifically on the defence force and the fact that this is unprecedented in many ways in terms of this decision that\u2019s being made today. I am in a bit of a dilemma as well, and I do want to briefly comment on some of the dates, which I will move quickly on from because I know it has already been traversed. I\u2019m in a bit of a predicament, a bit of a quandary, because I have my friend and colleague the Hon Kieran McAnulty proposing a date; I also have my good friend and colleague Camilla Belich proposing another date. I had considered a separate date yet again, but I think I will move on from that because it is important for us to prosecute the challenges we\u2019re facing and the time line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EI will come back to that, but I really want to comment on the defence force and the use of the defence force in the history of New Zealand in terms of when they have actually engaged, in terms of stepping up because of industrial action. The piece of legislation that we are referring to in the motion is, obviously, the Defence Act 1990. Camilla Belich already spoke of two incidences, or situations, in 1996 and in 2001 where the defence force was brought in. I guess it\u2019s extraordinary circumstances and that\u2019s why we need to take time to consider it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EI was reflecting on the fact that this is a very rare occurrence\u2014a very rare occurrence. The Great Strike was in 1913. Of course, it was huge for New Zealand in terms of the labour movement and, I guess, the trajectory to where we are today in terms workers\u2019 rights. It was a very important time in New Zealand history; it was a very fraught time. Obviously, we were close to some geopolitical issues\u2014we were on the cusp of World War I. Between 1913 and 1914, there was major strike action around Aotearoa New Zealand. That was the first time that I can recall\u2014not that I was there, but the first time I can recall in terms of my history lessons\u2014when the New Zealand Defence Force was actually brought in to actually deal with things like transportation, things even like waste, etc., and the movement of people and that type of thing. That was 1913. That was, as far as I know, the first time the defence force actually was used in this capacity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2b8e263d5e0463ba7176ee39756bbc2\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Although they were volunteers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259fea4cf89094002a25bfb3e8923cbf1\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: As we said, although they were volunteers. Of course, there were also the special constables in that\u2014just a fun fact for everyone\u2014I think they were called \u201CMassey\u2019s Cossacks\u201D, who came in and who, again, weren\u2019t paid. It very much was around the fact that we were trying to keep the country operating, which I understand is what the Government was wanting to do, but the fact is that the defence force and the special constables, Massey\u2019s Cossacks, were there to do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EWell, that was 1913, and then nothing happens for a long time until 1951. We all know of\u2014hopefully, if we did learn a bit of history at school\u2014the great waterfront dispute, which was an appalling time in New Zealand history.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d62caff4dc8d4e8a9b5d66c737a108db\u0022\u003EHon Chris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s getting very far from the motion, man.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edb54df156454cae9800c1a7d6a471ca\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: But in terms of\u2014no; one of your colleagues, Minister, was asking me to come back to the defence force and talk about that, so I thought I would reflect on that just to understand that they\u2019re actually unusual and extraordinary circumstances when they are used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EThen we look and we come along, and there was 1979, in terms of transportation. Then, because we\u2019ve talked about firefighters and that type of thing, 1981 was around traffic control. Again, this is where we understand that the defence force plays a key role in terms of the operations and the skills that they bring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EI want to propose an amendment. I want to step aside from the dates and look at amendment\u2014so we look at what the Minister of Defence has here and we look at the third bullet point, which says, \u201CAuthority for the use of appropriately trained members of the armed forces located at\u201D specified camps and bases, it continues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EI would like to move an amendment in my name, That after the words \u201Ccamps and bases\u201D the following words are added: \u201Cas long as the above authorisations are in place, the Minister will update the House on the progress being made to settle this industrial dispute on a weekly basis or on the next sitting day.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EThe reason I propose that that be added is, again, around transparency. I don\u2019t know if the word \u201Cpressure\u201D is the word I want to use but it puts it firmly in the camp of the Minister to ensure that the work that is being done to negotiate with the civilian staff\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a48075ea6b9c4f99b1e56bc6d22c7149\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Can we get a copy of that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226981cd3a645247929aace6490dbbf369\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I can provide it here, Mr Speaker. The reason is not only for the Minister to account to this House to make sure that progress is being made but also it is, I would hope, around allowing for the public to know what is actually progressing in terms of this space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EI want to ensure that all avenues have been exhausted before we actually come to this point. It was in July that negotiations began, and it\u2019s been several months now. Having that added into that third bullet point, I think, just allows clarity not only for us to hold the Government to account in terms of progress being made but so that the public is fully informed of what is happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EThere has been a zero\u00A0percent pay offer. It is taking time, and I think we really need to consider how we come to a place of solution. I\u2019m just coming back to my initial thoughts on my colleagues and their amendments around the dates. I fully hear what the Hon Kieran McAnulty is saying about something before Christmas, and I think that really honours the staff and says, \u201CLook, we are committed to working towards a solution before Christmas.\u201D I think the amendment I am moving is far more significant because we haven\u2019t traversed any dates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EI had considered putting in \u201C28 January 2025\u201D as the day, and the reason I was thinking of that, just so you know, was that it is our first sitting day back in 2025. I thought it would be a good line in the sand, but also we hear the narrative that this Government is a hard-working Government and they work through Christmas and New Year, so we come to the House early, back in January, and we\u2019re all here. Of course, we have a recess the week after and we don\u2019t actually have a full three-week sitting block until the end of March. But that\u2019s beside the point. It kind of strays away from this motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EI hope the clerks will give me some advice on the wording. I hope that the wording is correct and appropriate. I really do believe we should support the Minister in terms of getting this right. It does also put pressure on her to ensure that she is reporting back to the House, that she is ensuring transparency. We know that there has been some criticisms, and we on this side of the House have criticised some of those things. We felt that, potentially, transparency has been degraded slightly. We were speaking yesterday on the fast-track bill and our concerns on that. This is making sure we shine light in that space and making sure\u00A0that the Minister is in a place where she can work her way through and keep us, as a House, notified. Of course, what that means is it keeps the public notified.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EI caution the Government to seriously consider the issues of 1913 and the issues of 1951, the issues of 1979, or 1981. Are those issues that are etched in the memory of New Zealand\u2019s history\u2014are we in that pivotal moment? Or is this just something that they\u2019re doing because they haven\u2019t really given it the time, haven\u2019t given it the effort, and really haven\u2019t looked at the funding structure so they can do right by the civilians in the New Zealand Defence Force who do an amazing job, not only for our security here but in serving in peacekeeping throughout the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022 data-id=\u00220d2c75cd18694e57b2f5dea3fdc41fab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d2c75cd18694e57b2f5dea3fdc41fab\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u00229e50e4a993784e46bc44816e35f1afca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e50e4a993784e46bc44816e35f1afca\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the next call, I do want specific contributions on the amendments. That would be very helpful for the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0900d4a3c9c49be9108a4073d9c8af8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0900d4a3c9c49be9108a4073d9c8af8\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Mr Speaker, thank you. This is the first opportunity I\u2019ve had to take a call on this Government notice of motion No. 1. I concur with the comments that have been made around this being a very unusual step to take. I mean, it is one that is obviously permitted with the legislation, so there\u2019s no issue there, but it is\u2014well, it\u2019s not unusual; it is very rarely enacted. I understand the last time that it was enacted was back in 2001, so it means that this is not an issue or an item that has been placed before the Parliament on a frequent or regular basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003EThis does come back to the position of the Government not having any financial resource or capacity to be able to deal with the zero-pay offer from the New Zealand Defence Force\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022986548e96d644bd1b01862a8ca2f5ac0\u0022\u003EHon Chris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, repetition, come on! This is half a dozen times, for God\u2019s sake!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e9be04dd66d4d9c8eefd8ea7fe34509\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and that really is a matter for the Government. Now, I raise that because this has a direct implication on my constituents. My constituents of Palmerston North, as you know, sir, are individuals who are employed heavily within the defence force. When we\u2019re talking about the financial position of the Government and the decisions that\u00A0they take, I do not believe that anyone in this House has spoken about the impacts on the constituents of Palmerston North as a result of that Government\u2019s choices in this particular space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c755a0eb87db4e7694f8b11df68c573f\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297df721b78c84633948688cf30e3fe18\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: Now, members opposite might laugh about that, but I might need to remind them that a significant number of defence force personnel who will be undertaking this work fall within Palmerston North City\u2014and I\u2019m not just talking about those from Linton Military Camp; I am talking about those who, Mr Costley will be aware of, also are employed or work at Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF) Base \u014Chakea. This does relate, actually, to the decisions that the Government have taken and the impact that this will have on my community in Te Papaioea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, I actually was reflecting on the amendments\u2014and you\u2019ve asked me to speak to the amendments, which I will specifically do. Mr McAnulty has identified a particular range of dates there. I think actually having that as the option of the last sitting date of this calendar year does make some sense, because it does allow for the Parliament to turn its mind to those particular issues, which are pretty important as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003EOne of the things that hasn\u2019t been addressed\u2014and this might be something that the Associate Minister of Defence can respond to\u2014is he\u2019s identified that the strike notice ends on 31\u00A0January. The extension is sought through to 14\u00A0February, which in itself is questionable. Is he aware as to whether or not those involved would be, effectively, within the time period within which that ends and the extension ends\u2014whether a lockout is going to be on the cards or undertaken? Now, that is not something that the House has been made aware of, in terms of that. It is important, because\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ea5511295554e9aa8cddeb2d48ec936\u0022\u003EHon Chris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a bad-faith suggestion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a82b9dc8e1d94e37a64fe0aede04f7dd\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: A bad-faith suggestion? OK, well, then I look forward to the Minister\u2019s response around that, because there must be some movement perhaps that must be discussed, and maybe the Minister just wants to indicate that no, it\u2019s not on the cards. There is a clear difference here between when the notice ends and when the extension period is sought to end as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232b4dc4b096c429a99b1493a15891870\u0022\u003EHon Chris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: I explained it earlier; you weren\u2019t here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f03fb7f194ef4f22814add17d2f273c9\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Minister Penk. I intend to move an amendment that doesn\u2019t relate to dates, actually, and it doesn\u2019t relate to what Mr Bennett has referred to. The reason why I\u2019m going to move this amendment is that the original order that was issued by Minister Collins on 5\u00A0November had an annex appended to it, Annex A. It actually identified the specific list of defence force bases within that. That was not contained in the subsequent one in terms of the further extension notice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003EMy amendment seeks to just focus specifically on the third bullet point of the Government\u2019s notice of motion\u2014and I have a copy of it. I will move, That \u201Cauthority for the use of appropriately trained members of the armed forces located at specified camps and bases to provide security guard services at those camps and bases\u201D\u2014so that\u2019s the final bullet point in the notice motion\u2014be replaced with \u201Cauthority for the use of appropriately trained members of the armed forces located at\u201D, and then specify the individual locations. That is important because it was contained specifically in the 5\u00A0November documentation that the Minister issued\u2014it didn\u2019t appear anywhere else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003ENow, there might be a question, \u201CWell, you know, you don\u2019t need to do that from the Government because we\u2019re just referring to camps and bases.\u201D If that is the case, why did the Minister of Defence specify that on 5\u00A0November? There is a bit of a mismatch there. To address that, I suggest that it be replaced with \u201Cauthority for the use of appropriately trained members of the armed forces located at Devonport Naval Base, RNZAF Base Auckland, Papakura Military Camp, RNZAF Base \u014Chakea, Linton Military Camp, Trentham Military Camp, Burnham Military Camp, RNZAF Base Woodbourne, and Headquarters, Joint Force\u00A0New Zealand\u201D. That is, basically, a lift and shift from the 5 November annex, Annex A. It is basically, effectively, introducing this into the notice of motion to provide a level of specificity around where this would apply. I reflect on that, and that\u2019s why I think\u2014well, you know, the folk of Linton and \u014Chakea are constituents of Palmerston North, and, somewhat, the wider surrounds of course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003EI think providing some clarity would be very important, and that\u2019s why I\u2019m prepared to move that amendment in my name. When we look at the actual relevant piece of legislation, which is the Defence Act, we know, Part 1, section 9(2)\u2014it does indicate in that piece of governing legislation that the \u201Cauthority shall specify the part or parts of the Armed Forces that may be used and the public service or public services that may be provided.\u201D Now, the Government might be pursuing that, \u201CNo, no, that\u2019s contained in the earlier notice of motion.\u201D, but the question I have for the Minister is: why was that not effectively carried through to any of the documentation post 5 November, but also any of the documentation that currently is in front of the House in terms of the notice of motion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003EThis is, in terms of the exercise of this power, something that is not utilised very often at all, and so I think the proposed amendments\u2014I\u2019m sorry to my colleague Camilla Belich, but I do prefer Mr McAnulty\u2019s amendment in terms of the date, just because it provides a little bit more timeliness. I think Mr Bennett has identified that issue of transparency\u2014that\u00A0this is a responsibility of this House and of this Parliament to effectively extend the Minister of Defence\u2019s time frames and rights. On that basis, I commend this particular amendment to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u0022bdf989975ec24e84b477129100fab276\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bdf989975ec24e84b477129100fab276\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: This debate is interrupted and set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2\u00A0p.m. on Tuesday, 19\u00A0November 2024.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2024111451c9551c440e48078ab83d9d996a7642000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 6.01 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"