"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022510a10633d2d490ab628a8ed626900a6\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 10 DECEMBER 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022906957808b064e21917fa44ddb14e447\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 10 DECEMBER 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223e3ff5d30a3a4f99949101c96451522b\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221df7c2569fef47c898c52f701ee4dd63\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00220d77eb0f4ee54a78ac211eafc4c995f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d77eb0f4ee54a78ac211eafc4c995f7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229c1b69edb8634be99a84b0ee5f514ed2\u0022\u003EObituaries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e252ae59dfe0456495c7b6570b04e8f8\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Laura Kaye\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00223cea749af4024be69a0b7ad1a1c0cadb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223cea749af4024be69a0b7ad1a1c0cadb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I regret to inform the House of the death on 23 November 2024 of Nicola \u201CNikki\u201D Laura Kaye, who represented the electorate of Auckland Central from\u00A02008 to 2020. She was the chairperson of the Education and Science Committee, and then held several ministerial portfolios, including Minister of Civil Defence, Minister for Youth, Minister for ACC, and Minister of Education. In 2020, she became the Deputy Leader of the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI desire, on behalf of this House, to express our sense of loss and sympathy with the relatives of the late former member. I now ask members to stand and observe with me a period of silence as a mark of respect to her memory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EMembers stood as a mark of respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228e60d5da98cb415c9f4a8418356a6728\u0022\u003EPrivilege\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002242b5230566ee44d1a31d4b20116f1926\u0022\u003EConduct of Members\u2014Disruption During Vote\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00225838f0c0887144658b2e0cd00826f225\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225838f0c0887144658b2e0cd00826f225\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I\u2019ve received letters from the Hon Shane Jones, Suze Redmayne, and Todd Stephenson asking that I consider actions that may be considered a breach of privilege that took place following the debate on the Treaty principles bill on 14 November. I previously named Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke for interrupting a vote, which should be considered a serious matter by every member of this House. Taking an action to prevent votes being completed is completely unacceptable. At this point, however, naming has been the only action I\u2019ve chosen to take on that matter. The letters I\u2019ve received name a number of members who participated in a haka in the House, and, in particular, four members who left their seats to stand on the floor of the House, with three of those members advancing towards the seats of another party. That is disorderly and cannot be considered anything other than disorderly. I do not make any ruling in this decision about the appropriateness of haka and its place inside the tikanga of this House. That is a matter for the Standing Orders Committee and will be discussed in a meeting later today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EHowever, the issue of members leaving their seats to participate in an activity that was disorderly and disruptive to the procedure of the House is something that should be considered further. The House may treat as contempt an act, or any act, which obstructs or impedes the House in the performance of its functions. Standing Order 418 lists \u201CExamples of contempts\u201D, which include \u201Cthreatening, or intimidating a member \u2026 in the discharge of [their duties]\u201D and \u201Cthreatening, or disadvantaging a member on account of [their] conduct in [the House]\u201D. It is my decision, therefore, that this is a matter the Privileges Committee should consider. I have determined that the actions of the Hon Peeni Henare, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer, Rawiri Waititi, and Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke, in participating in disruptive activity on the floor of the House on 14 November, gave rise to a question of privilege which stands referred to the Privileges Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022488608dd1bff486aaa2fd1d3f63141f4\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002207e24af21b3e4bffba8cb32d46994ec9\u0022\u003EHealth Workforce Plan\u2014Release\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c6bfdbfd795e457e96d3766dc8fb134f\u0022\u003EMarsden Fund\u2014Funding for Humanities and Social Sciences\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00229a04c1ae1b0a415783e65a65b1872fc4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a04c1ae1b0a415783e65a65b1872fc4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve received a letter from Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall seeking to debate under Standing Order 399 the release of the Government\u2019s health workforce plan. This is a particular case of recent occurrence for which there is ministerial responsibility. However, not every Government announcement warrants an urgent debate. Even though the announcement may be important, there must be such an element of urgency that the matter must take precedence over other business. I do not think that this application reaches that threshold. The application is therefore declined. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve also received a letter from Hon Dr Deborah Russell seeking to debate the removal of funding for humanities and social sciences from the Marsden Fund. While this is also an important matter, it\u2019s not of such urgency that it warrants setting aside the business of the House today. This application is therefore declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226815d87c7e114f5ea88f5c5118c5a639\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225301146847f947318b902cbc05b74c6f\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc2595f6b8814c30b59ed2c41ef9a77a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc2595f6b8814c30b59ed2c41ef9a77a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There have been 11 petitions delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00226e173a08c709462bb30cfc50ead20cbb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e173a08c709462bb30cfc50ead20cbb\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EPetition of Raewyn Harrison requesting that the House ban the public sale of fireworks\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Ponsonby Chambers requesting that the House expand the scope of discrimination under section 21 of the Human Rights Act 1993\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of the New Zealand Values Alliance requesting that the House hold an inquiry into China\u2019s foreign interference activities in New Zealand and the Pacific \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Alan Peacock requesting that the House pass legislation that limits any increases in regional or local council rates and levies to a maximum of the current rate of inflation \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Geoffrey Mortlock requesting that the House pass legislation to require the Government to specify and publish more comprehensive performance metrics for Government agencies \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Patrick Rooney requesting that the House urge the Government to ensure any Cook Strait replacement ferries are rail-enabled\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Helen Duyvestyn requesting that the House urge the Government to reallow the sale and distribution of micronutrient formulas for those experiencing mental distress\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Charlene Whyte requesting that the House urge the Government to require primary and secondary schools to provide education on social media \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Geoffrey Mortlock requesting that the House urge the Government to specify more detailed comprehensive performance requirements for all the Reserve Bank\u2019s functions \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Leah Hawkins requesting that the House urge the South Wairarapa District Council to cap its rates increase at 3 percent\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Kylie Whellan requesting that the House urgently establish a subject select committee that considers Government-funded business related to all New Zealand children\u2019s rights, care, and wellbeing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022877f1ee95f8848fc99b34b1f77213693\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022877f1ee95f8848fc99b34b1f77213693\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those petitions stand referred to the Petitions Committee. Ministers have delivered 49 papers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022e49c672578e84a8dbc6844b4eefd3ac1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e49c672578e84a8dbc6844b4eefd3ac1\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2023-24 annual reports for:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EAccreditation Council\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EChildren and Young People\u2019s Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ECivil Aviation Authority\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EClimate Change Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ECommerce Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EEducation New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EEnergy Efficiency and Conservation Authority\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EFire and Emergency New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EHealth Quality and Safety Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EIndependent Police Conduct Authority\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EMinistry of Education and Student Loan Scheme\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Blood Service\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Green Investment Finance Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Lottery Grants Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EPharmac\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ERadio New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ESocial Workers Registration Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ETakeovers Panel\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ETaumata Arowai\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ETe Papa\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ETe Whatu Ora Health New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ETertiary Education Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EWorkSafe\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2023-24 statements of performance expectations for the Children and Young People\u2019s Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2024-25 statements of performance expectations for:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EChildren and Young People\u2019s Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EHealth Quality and Safety Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Blood Service\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EPharmac\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ESocial Workers Registration Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ESport Integrity Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ETe Papa\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ETe Whatu Ora Health New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Estatements of intent for:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EHealth Quality and Safety Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EInland Revenue\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Blood Service\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ESocial Workers Registration Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ESport Integrity Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ETe Whatu Ora Health New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Estrategic intentions for the Ministry of Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EGovernment response to the petition of Leonie Morris\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Justice Committee on the petition of Liya Lupala\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Justice Committee on the report of the Ombudsman Kia Whaitake Making a Difference: Investigation into Ara Poutama Aotearoa Department of Corrections\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReserve Bank of New Zealand Monetary Policy Statement November 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EAgreement on Climate Change, Trade, and Sustainability, together with the National Interest Analysis\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EAgreement on Climate Change, Trade, and Sustainability revised\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EUS Tuna Treaty Amendments to Annex II of the Treaty on Fisheries between the Governments of certain Pacific Island States and the Government of the United States of America, together with the National Interest Analysis\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Climate Change Commission on advice on Aotearoa New Zealand\u2019s fourth emissions budget, November 2024, and review of the 2050 emissions target including whether emissions from international shipping and aviation should be included\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ENg\u0101i Tahu Ancillary Claims Trust, annual financial statements for the year ended 30 June 2024.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002273f0c2629ece48b8aa6d3b2fa08da3a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273f0c2629ece48b8aa6d3b2fa08da3a9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I present the strategic intentions for the Parliament sector for December 2024 to June 2029. I also present the Register of Pecuniary and Other Specified Interests of Members of Parliament: Summary of amendments to previous returns and of initial returns. Those papers are published under the authority of the House. Twenty select committee reports have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00226ec3020040004ea9aa2fc06f99da9e22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ec3020040004ea9aa2fc06f99da9e22\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReports of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee on the:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereview briefing on the 2022-23 annual review of Landcare Research New Zealand Ltd\t\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereview briefing on the 2022-23 annual review of New Zealand Forest Research Institute Ltd\t\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Education and Workforce Committee on the Regulatory Systems (Immigration and Workforce) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Health Committee on the briefing on the implementation of regulations to limit youth vaping\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Justice Committee on the:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EMarine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) (Customary Marine Title) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EParole (Mandatory Completion of Rehabilitative Programmes) Amendment Bill and Report of the Attorney-General under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereview briefing on the 2022-23 annual review of the Privacy Commissioner\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ESentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee on the:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ebriefing on the visit from the delegation of the Speaker of the Canadian Senate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Einquiry into learning support for \u0101konga M\u0101ori\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereport of the 2022-23 annual review of Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi M\u0101ori\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereview briefing on the 2022-23 annual review of Te Reo Whakapuaki Irirangi\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereports of the Petitions Committee on the petitions of Bronwen Jones, Entrust, Greg Rzesniowiecki, Kristine Hayward, Steven Price, and VOYCE - Whakarongo Mai\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereport of the Primary Production Committee on the Regulatory Systems (Primary Industries) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereports of the Social Services and Community Committee on the petition of Veronica Turketo, and report of the Controller and Auditor-General Leading New Zealand\u2019s approach to housing and urban development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002272e45278fbe946e0bad59af12020d6ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272e45278fbe946e0bad59af12020d6ee\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The bills are set down for second reading. The inquiry, review briefings, and the report of the Controller and Auditor-General are set down for consideration. The Clerk has been advised of the introduction nine bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022b51723f45b5c46eb9916765a62b7a417\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b51723f45b5c46eb9916765a62b7a417\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ERacing Industry Amendment Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EOffshore Renewable Energy Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ESocial Security Amendment Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EEmployment Relations (Pay Deductions for Partial Strikes) Amendment Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EResource Management (Consenting and Other System Changes) Amendment Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori Purposes Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ECrimes Legislation (Stalking and Harassment) Amendment Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ELocal Government (Water Services) Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EGene Technology Bill, introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002295d7022ac260477aa7cced3762eb896d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295d7022ac260477aa7cced3762eb896d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those bills are set down for first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fb1dcc6d34c741129b1c8fb5bc516fff\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a6a76adfeffb4d7c9579a84daeb7ec0d\u0022\u003EConduct of Members\u2014Privileges Committee Referral\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00221ca800f3dd104dae9810936a77b2d9e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ca800f3dd104dae9810936a77b2d9e2\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I waited for the end of the House business to be able to make this. In your response to the privileges complaints earlier, you mentioned four members, and you distinguished between the actions of three, who approached other members in leaving their seat, and the other member, who did not. In referring all four members to the Privileges Committee, are you distinguishing between those actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022610e6c1951ea4e30bd684bde7fbbd0b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022610e6c1951ea4e30bd684bde7fbbd0b2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not for me to distinguish; that\u2019s for the Privileges Committee to determine. The point I\u2019d make is that the disorderly aspect is leaving the seat, where you are privileged to speak from, to conduct activities on the floor of the House while we should be in session. That\u2019s a matter for the Privileges Committee to determine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002269de4e64a979453a9003588a6404fc89\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269de4e64a979453a9003588a6404fc89\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. My understanding is that there were a number of MPs who participated in the haka who did not leave their seats. They stood, they participated in it, but they did not leave their seats. How have you determined which members have been referred to the Privileges Committee and which haven\u2019t?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00225233cd87965b41878098fa28331fe98c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225233cd87965b41878098fa28331fe98c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I\u2019ve just said, I think the action of leaving your seat to move on to the floor of the House to conduct an activity that I certainly considered to have been disruptive is quite a different matter. I\u2019ve also said that the issue of haka, which is not disallowed currently but the circumstances in which it may be allowed as part of the tikanga of the House, as opposed to the celebration that it normally is or has been up to this point, is also a matter for the Standing Orders Committee. Referring people one after the other to the Privileges Committee I don\u2019t think is particularly useful given that we had very much only a bare-majority vote on the naming, and I think it\u2019s now up to members to start making decisions about what they find acceptable in the House, as opposed to relying on past rulings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022654d37fb14a34bd9b0b2150f06e15082\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fad7cad993b345d19b4269628060c0d6\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022790d7160ebfc4af4bfcec457d69073bd\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00221cdcb8537cf24305956da1a687a2277d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221cdcb8537cf24305956da1a687a2277d\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022557c0823d00842faab90ea7c7bf24f21\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022557c0823d00842faab90ea7c7bf24f21\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and especially our actions to rebuild the economy, given the economic mismanagement of the previous Government. This is a Government that is on the side of working New Zealanders. And the progress that we are making by offering tax relief for the first time in 14 years, having inflation at 2.2 percent to have wages growing faster than inflation for the first four quarters of this Government versus 13 under the last one where it went backwards, having the official cash rate and interest rates down, having actually business sentiment and confidence up and consumer confidence up\u2014we\u2019re making good progress. A long way to go, but we\u2019re on the right track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9df62bba1e746eb8526ea7e66ad9be9\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his claim, \u201CWe haven\u2019t had a single rent increase; it\u2019s been stable rents over the last 12 months.\u201D; if so, how does he reconcile that with Statistics New Zealand\u2019s annual rent inflation figure of 4.5 percent over that time, over twice the rate of headline inflation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271d5aeaf50c64cecad5705895aa8a9a6\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Because that is the case. We have actually had stable rents under this Government versus $180 per week under Labour. Our source of data, from memory, is the tenancy bond data.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a8330e74f284c498ad00f80b7f1f16e\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: So is he saying that Statistics New Zealand is just wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255224ba935fc492a9a92bbee20e0abcc\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m saying that we\u2019ve had stable rents based off the data that we\u2019ve been using, compared to the $180 per week increase under his Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f451218eeffa47128aa36b98f2c92404\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Given he promised New Zealanders rents would decrease as a result of reintroducing interest deductibility for landlords, how is rents going up 4.5\u00A0percent during his tenure as Prime Minister something for New Zealanders to celebrate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c0d382b663c4a36b717f6bc972c8ebe\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I find it ironic, from that member, getting lectured about rent increases, don\u2019t you think? It\u2019s $180 per week that it went up under his Government. We have stable rents under this Government. Why is that? Because we\u2019ve taken the costs off landlords, we\u2019ve actually got the balance right between tenants and landlords, and we\u2019ve pulled the brightline test back to two years. I\u2019ll just say to that member: rents are stable. They went up $180 under his Government. We\u2019re doing the opposite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec8e045598a748b2987cda87c9134a0c\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister please define what he means by \u201Cstable rents\u201D, and if that includes increasing rents at double the rate of Consumer Price Index inflation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279a2ea21c07c475abf1b4dabfd11c155\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not sure where you\u2019re getting your data from as the member. I\u2019ll just say to you, I\u2019m getting my data from the tenancy bond data\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5ca4204973447cebaf24af2c0a6662c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We just should, right at the beginning of today\u2019s question time, establish that we\u2019re going to be a little bit more cautious about the barracking and interjection. Interjection: rare and reasonable; outright barracking: not acceptable. The Rt Hon Winston\u2014the Rt Hon Chris Hipkins.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b91b3e0a6b0461fb5ccae8c2f421e69\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Crikey! Will he guarantee that the new inter-island ferries Cabinet has agreed to fund will cost less than the $551 million contract with Hyundai that his Government cancelled; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7eea92c8456466ea63b05bd22ab1604\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I can guarantee that member they will cost less than the $3.2 billion he let that project grow out to. It\u2019ll be less than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221539fb262af24b72b92dc47aba7aaece\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Could the Prime Minister tell us whether there\u2019s any connection between the fall of the 50-year dynasty in Syria and so many Opposition members having a Damascus experience from their own parties\u2019 war on this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219d83c8ec06e4db4aa6f39de8c6bc1ef\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As much as that might be a fascinating answer, we\u2019re not going to hear it. When the House is ready.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241267a78b70c45b6a829811235db0272\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285dc91de2acf43e8b3759ebebf1b25f8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, just when the House settles itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c887ce74d7e4c8ebe8e7155bc48ac0a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Will he assure the New Zealand public that his Government will not liberalise the sale and supply of military-style semi-automatic weapons; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2863b9e2a774309875c95825c09fcc6\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: We haven\u2019t had that conversation in Government, but I can assure you we are focused on improving public safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225400c6d2b9464e94984eb9f4248d6c3f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with his Deputy Prime Minister, Winston Peters, that he is struggling in the job of Prime Minister, and, if he doesn\u2019t, why should New Zealanders respect his leadership when his own deputy clearly doesn\u2019t?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224234df402a2c4c84baf1e71d51cadf90\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I don\u2019t agree with that, but I\u2019ll just say to you members: the New Zealand public can see that this is a Government that\u2019s getting the work done. They can see that inflation\u2019s down, they can see that interest rates are down, they can see that crime is down, and\u2014compared to the ungodly mess that that Government left us\u2014they can see we\u2019re making progress. That\u2019s why they think the country is heading in the right direction, not the wrong direction as it was under your Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d5b8d91c81974090aa7dcb2c06c74e4c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022 data-id=\u002272e5102218004bb292758b959fd4e1f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272e5102218004bb292758b959fd4e1f8\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent announcements has she made on banking?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022127b3a92bb254e3d9be6a27c4e9387af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022127b3a92bb254e3d9be6a27c4e9387af\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday, the Government announced it is proceeding with plans to provide Kiwibank with access to more capital. The Treasury and Kiwibank\u2019s parent company, Kiwi Group Capital, will talk to New Zealand KiwiSaver funds, New Zealand investment institutions, and New Zealand professional investor groups about a potential investment of up to $500 million in the bank. Additional capital would enable Kiwibank to compete more vigorously against the \u201Cbig four\u201D Australian-owned banks. As the Commerce Commission reported earlier this year, the banking sector is a \u201Chighly profitable, two-tier oligopoly\u201D, and New Zealanders are not well served by what could be characterised as a cosy pillow fight between the \u201Cbig four\u201D banks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6ff0db945004986b10d36e608d8fbf7\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: What benefit would there be in providing Kiwibank with access to more capital?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cf60c45f4ab412bac7b12da87f554ff\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Kiwibank has been growing faster than the market average for six years, but it is still a relatively small player. To keep growing, it needs more capital. I\u2019ve been advised that an additional $500 million of capital could support up to $4 billion of business lending or $10 billion of home lending. That is sufficient to add competitive pressure to the market. Treasury calculates that even a 0.25 percent drop in personal and business lending rates across all banks would save customers $1.5 billion to $2 billion a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a92a24c45fca4f83b77926fe6c9b51da\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: When will the Government make a decision on access to additional capital?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e7b64b61f9d4d768dd7cf5fc43a5d91\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Around the middle of next year, Kiwi Group Capital and the Treasury will report to me on options. Cabinet will then make a final decision on whether to proceed with a capital raising. If a decision to proceed is taken, it is expected that Kiwi Group Capital will launch a formal offer to raise new capital from suitable New Zealand investors between October next year and June 2026.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022206d55714c0946ad99c9cd0e1c101ece\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: Will Kiwibank be floated on the open market?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224af7b39802034ae7b8df0cfadec2ee73\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: A future Government may consider the possibility of a public share offering at some point, but, at this stage, the potential offering would be limited to KiwiSaver funds, New Zealand investment institutions, and New Zealand professional investor groups. I\u2019m advised that Kiwibank would not be in a position to conduct a public offering until it has completed upgrading its systems and technology. That is not scheduled to happen until 2028. Therefore, the Government is not considering a market float during this term of Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cd164ac533b7454c9f506080f6a52956\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u002288c176ef4d64404da894cd93f755d506\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288c176ef4d64404da894cd93f755d506\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Fa\u2018afetai tele lava, Mr Speaker. Does she stand by her statement that \u201CWe have a responsibility to ensure the public gets value for its money\u201D; if so, is she confident that the Government\u2019s alternative ferries will be less than the $551 million contract with Hyundai that was cancelled?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002269499c9682b84d1e8e4cfd890880822a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269499c9682b84d1e8e4cfd890880822a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. I stand by the statement which was referring to the Government\u2019s decision to decline a request from KiwiRail to contribute additional funding to the iReX project. And, yes, I\u2019m confident that the Government\u2019s alternative ferry solution for the Cook Strait will cost less than the iReX project that was started under the previous Government and which blew out to a cost of at least $3 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233f941e889844111b2a23db0557a6554\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. This is a question on notice. It was not a question about the whole of the iReX project; it was a question specifically about the cost of the ferries. It wasn\u2019t a question about the whole project and it\u2019s a primary question on notice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258f96223a847429f81f07a62edf7493c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister might like to respond to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022083ec4b409514349acabd3fb8cfeedbe\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member may like to pretend you can have ships without berths and you don\u2019t need to consider the cost of port-side infrastructure, but we here in the real world understand that the two must come together. So we have considered project costs in their totality. I can also say that the likely cost of ferries and other infrastructure needed to support them cannot be disclosed due to commercial sensitivity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249b7c8b4b9b346c28c860a9eb35e7b57\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Has she set aside a tag contingency of $900 million for the procurement of two smaller, non - rail-enabled ferries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d01288b00ca4fea8e96f38c724771c8\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I do not believe it is in the public interest to answer that today. The member will just have to wait until an announcement is made later this week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3bf26ac99074c9e9bcca99ee8ae1848\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Has she undertaken a cost-benefit analysis to understand the increase in cost to users, freight operators, port operators, and the wider transport system as a result of her decision to not support rail-enabled ferries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220013b431c063463aaf665b7e0f501716\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: That question contains speculation which I think I do not have a need to respond to. What I can say is that Cabinet, in considering a ferry replacement option, has had in mind safety, reliability, resilience, compatibility with rail, and value for money, not just for freight users and passengers but for New Zealand taxpayers as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210040f176b66478fa14f123d58c76982\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain how it was that a commission of $400 million to buy two ferries ended up at $3.2 billion, and 80 percent of that money was not to do with the ferries but with infrastructure that was not required in the first tender that was put out in 2020, when somebody who knew what he was doing was running the outfit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc93015e32254befa3c101451e87a8c7\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member makes a very good point. It should be remembered that by the time we came into Government, the cost of the ferries\u2014the ships themselves\u2014was just 21 percent of the total cost of iReX. That is to say, four in every five dollars was going towards costs that weren\u2019t even ships, with the blowout having been overseen by members who were in that Cabinet and sat by while New Zealanders\u2019 money was recklessly put at risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0f9a990e6e64dfeb0c6880f76e81ff2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just make the point that current Ministers are not responsible for what happened or how it came about; they\u2019re responsible for the portfolio in its entirety over a duration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228488ed3446a847299ebd9f68a4b444a5\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. With respect, sir, coming to that conclusion, why did you not stop the Minister from answering? Surely you didn\u2019t wait till the end to make your mind up on that matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277b6ad538a62416188f5c316ee582424\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order. Your ruling is correct, with one exception: if the Minister\u2019s trying to wrestle to explain how the costs got out of hand, and that deals with a previous Minister, then this is the entitlement of the House to hear the facts; not just one side of the story but the full story. This started off at $400 million for two ferries\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ba40d9cbddf40c8a88f8c0377a2e488\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, look, that\u2019ll do. Because that\u2019s the point that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e48e802733e4e258c056f236ff6aedf\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no, and it goes to $3.2 billion and it won\u2019t do because we can\u2019t afford that sort of rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac3641a5a4224e3b8eed5aacd5f90414\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s the point I was about to make to the Hon Kieran McAnulty: that the question started by asking for confirmation of a figure. The question, then\u2014I must confess\u2014did slide into an area that it perhaps shouldn\u2019t have. I think that was an oversight on my part, but I don\u2019t think it rules out, entirely, the question that was asked, which was, \u201CWhat was the start price?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a515ba8b04904794a0ecc93614f1dbfe\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Is it the Minister\u2019s understanding that the whole point of ferries is to transport people and goods between points on the land, and therefore focusing on the price of the ferries without thinking about where they would dock is not only totally impractical but grossly fiscally irresponsible?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8d0a7ebfc0240e6b1a069107f86c442\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, insomuch as the answer will relate to the primary question, the Minister may make a comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e920ad98ec6a4a0d8cc2fe86c00613ed\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. It may be the case that some members might like to pretend that you can buy ships without caring about supporting infrastructure, but I would say that is as fantastical as promising 100,000 KiwiBuild houses\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e399345f6f394a1d8d03931c0ae5d05e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s enough\u2014that\u2019s enough. Look, sorry. If that happens again, the question time will be terminated for members who speak that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e08e7fe497e40c49f7df2a1dca3d02e\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Has she set aside $300 million to cover the cancellation cost with Hyundai?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3a8c8d6456b4b24923cc9d15c25ddd4\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: The negotiations with Hyundai are yet to conclude. The details of those negotiations are highly commercially sensitive. It is my responsibility to protect the taxpayer and so I won\u2019t be disclosing details about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f4dd479726749e19b872fa1ee5bdfee\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Does she regret making the political point by refusing additional funding for KiwiRail now that her alternative deal for the new, smaller ferries could cost $900 million, the sunk costs on winding up the project are around half a billion, and the break fee could be upwards of $300 million?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261748ab548b04ff79516e049a0e9b072\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just make the point that if the Minister were to answer that question, the Minister would be free to range very, very broadly across anything relating to this at all, given the speculative nature of the question. If you read the Standing Orders, that\u2019s how it works. If you\u2019re going to ask for a strict interpretation of the Standing Orders in one breath, then you\u2019ve got to expect that the response might be similar in a further consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd00f3c26b9f4294bf41ff815120dd0b\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I regret and will always remember an incoming Government being faced with a situation where they were set a deadline of a matter of weeks to determine whether we would shovel more cash into a failing project that had had multiple cost blowouts, that had gone completely off the rails, and that the last Government had not acted on. For an incoming Government\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c5b2229ab8a406f86f9607ac4e7fcfd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s enough. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9608e1c5ba44137ac413654bb02a3ce\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to be faced with such a situation is regrettable, and I do hope that Ministers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9653e04b2344efc83acaa84aea3a59e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, sorry\u2014hang on. I\u2019m not\u2014just, you can finish your answer, but we\u2019re not putting up with that constant barrage from this side of the House and some sort of endorsement coming from the back of the House. It\u2019s unnecessary. Please finish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdae5d3c36b448d8b7431e33803c6493\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: And I would hope that members opposite would reflect on the mess they left behind them and the extraordinary efforts our Government has had to go to to clean it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275342970b1db41d1930f52bdc74b72f2\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Is it a good deal for Kiwis that around half a billion dollars has been written off the Government\u2019s financial statements and potentially a $300 million cancellation cost as a result of her Government\u2019s decision to cease the iReX project?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b28170a37cea4fcc90f1759384f97708\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said, it would not have been a good deal for New Zealanders to have shovelled more cash at a failing project which had blown out to more than $3 billion in cost, and I would say was destined to blow out even further; where there were still questions about whether the ships could pass through the Tory Channel; where there were still questions about whether berths would be delivered on time. It was a failed project, and the member\u2019s defence of it tells me that she does not take value for taxpayers\u2019 money seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224700c37687874491bf9923f4682b28d7\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u002209d9c381c8624db7bf9a6078008dd0ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209d9c381c8624db7bf9a6078008dd0ad\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u002257cf029c2987407b9bf90f257cb75b5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257cf029c2987407b9bf90f257cb75b5f\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265e49d08db2b4eb6926014134e0d76d3\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: What is his message to the one in eight tamariki who will not be having a merry Christmas this year as their wh\u0101nau can barely afford kai, let alone Christmas presents? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225298d93891064be5af214284828f93fe\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I acknowledge that\u2019s an incredibly tough situation. There are many New Zealanders that have had a very difficult year and continue to do so, and that is directly a function of economic mismanagement over the previous six years. When Government spending goes up 84 percent, when inflation goes up to 7.3 percent, and when interest rates go up 12 or 13 times and you end up putting an economy into recession, people start losing their jobs\u2014it\u2019s tough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226851746d22ac4815bc5ed75b71baffd3\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: What is his message to the hundreds of tamariki who, according to Variety\u2019s Kiwi Kids Sponsorship, have asked for kai instead of presents in their Christmas wish-lists this year? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c78d9f18031416fb8711dea52d3574b\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I refer the member to my former answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e35fa2c1efb40e692ad348c2940bda4\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcf43dc0a7434d4085af59125f0a8a52\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9f4168100534d0e917bc0c771b7b8f4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll take three, first\u2014oh, point of order, the Hon David Seymour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecdbdf73563f4e8d8922c39ded093690\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I\u2019d just seek your guidance. The member has asked a primary about statements and actions of the Prime Minister, and then asked a series of questions about circumstances within New Zealand that may not relate to anything the Prime Minister has done or said, but imputes that those circumstances are somehow his fault. I think that\u2019s out of order and, frankly, unfair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b9c0b6e6a924f48a3e668fe8b9982d6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, look, I\u2019d\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f406e10daea246f490280aa60de0a9a8\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6db0ecbaf394b97a9ef1051a9470664\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: All right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022997d42831b154b86993df6a4a6419d26\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: The Child Poverty Report from the Budget said that this Government was knowingly making decisions to put thousands more kids in poverty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bca572926494eb981cb21f0403db6cd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s the interpretation you\u2019re putting on it. I\u2019m merely saying that we\u2019ve ruled that \u201CDoes he stand by all his statements and actions?\u201D\u2014almost everything the Government does can be attributed to something somewhere, good and bad, and, therefore, questions of this nature are not out of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223df04388c32644ad8a70b58fb334fef5\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Well, speaking to that, Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d889313cf84461db8501512cbb6cbb2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What is this\u2014sorry? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afaf885bd2fd4e2db467549d2f273548\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not then incumbent on the questioner to identify the statement or action? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffadaaddedb248e9959c02cee79bcdba\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, certainly, the questions relate to statements that have been made; we\u2019ve just had that pointed out to us. But, look, if the House wants to go down to a very pedantic way of dealing with questions, we\u2019ll do the same with answers, and that won\u2019t suit everybody, either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022632d43c87052436ab9cc89b9c4210035\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: How much did the Prime Minister profit from untaxed capital gains this year? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022368b527daede45cca03a1802f748bacd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, that question is out of order\u2014that question is out of order. The member can try another question, if she wants, but not that one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e8545e08e9549aa9655e2a1448e9fdb\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Is it fair that everyday New Zealanders are paying over 20\u00A0percent in tax while the richest 40 percent get away with only paying 10 percent through untaxed capital gains? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed42e938a4bc4dc6a5f20c11a7db98a6\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s not fair is that 23,000 children were put into poverty in the last year under the Labour Government. Thanks to our Budget actions, 17,000 children are being moved out of poverty, and that is because we\u2019re offering tax relief, that\u2019s because we\u2019re getting inflation relief, that\u2019s because we\u2019re getting interest rate relief, and we\u2019re actually building confidence in this economy so that it can grow and keep people in jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9338bcd74f7461f9dcea6ad85895841\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Has this Government ever made any statements or will it make any statements to the effect of telling people that their problems are caused by other people\u2019s success and dragging down other people for being successful is somehow the solution to their problems? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7e74f730d5a47928ffd0a5c6f8ce5e7\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: This is a Government that believes we should celebrate people who have been successful and that are working incredibly hard to get ahead. If you care about low and middle income working New Zealanders, you are a fiscal conservative, unlike the last Labour-led Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272772044567b48f88858463ad4ddf885\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister concerned about how much Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori were enhanced by the abuse of the charities legislation of this country? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7407d647ae14ca7babc6675258a12ec\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, that\u2019s not something that the Prime Minister can answer. We\u2019ll move to question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221403a79eaf2a486aa3acd9cdaa7170be\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022802ca8798aac4686986bd4269c07e074\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, a supplementary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224df54026c73c4e31b97bfa843373c1f2\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Prime Minister declare any conflicts of interest when he became the Prime Minister of a Government that is actively passing laws to line the pockets of landlords like himself while taking away renters\u2019 rights?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204528537ee3c47cb91765528834fe04a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m sorry, that question is out of order. The member knows that there is a pecuniary interests document and that all members declare their interests in that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cfa58351ef346659c1874f00fea69ca\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: How many houses could we build over six years with $200\u00A0billion, which is the amount of additional revenue we would gain from a capital gains tax?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf1d59eeb8b5468998dc78d28b89903f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I think the point made by the Hon David Seymour earlier is a correct one when you start getting that far away from statements and actions of the Government. There are different ways to ask that question without losing the question. Have another go\u00A0at it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0429dcbaabe4ca9ae46b0b4098fe492\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll go on to another one if that\u2019s OK with you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022478ba4893ff04241bd51df436c9ba044\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That depends whether it\u2019s in order or not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e225adcdf534b97bbfbb775e343ddf7\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. What urgent, tangible actions is the Government taking to protect the livelihoods of the 230 workers facing the axe at Kinleith\u00A0Mill before Christmas and prevent Tokoroa\u2019s economy from spiralling into intergenerational hardship?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247eed004566342f2b11e3a6a41219eca\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, again, I want to acknowledge how difficult it is for the workers and the families impacted by the closure of the mill. I thank the Minister for Social Development and Employment, who has made sure that the Ministry of Social Development is in there working with that community to look at opportunities for people in employment. But I also want to say that Oji, the company that is behind the mill, is a large multinational corporation with billions of dollars of investment. They have said for some time that the paper mill is unprofitable, and it hasn\u2019t been helped by the Labour-Greens energy policy, which ended up creating high electricity wholesale prices, because the Green Party thought it was a great idea to import Indonesian coal rather than to use domestic gas, and that is a contributing factor to what has happened here. So we are a Government that is focused on rebuilding the economy, and that means actually good financial and fiscal discipline so that we lower inflation, so that we lower interest rates, so that we grow the economy, and so that we get people into high-paying jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a795bb2e745e48c78858c4a9f322c00b\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister aware that one of if not the greatest inputs to such a mill is electricity, and does the Government have any policies that will make it easier to build generation capacity, which happened to be opposed by Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294c7a7b12d264d5c9cf875dffc709599\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I would encourage Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori and the Greens and Labour\u2014if they cared about the environment, if they cared about our energy policy, they would back us in ending the oil and gas ban. They would back the legislation around fast-track legislation that is building 30 percent more renewable electricity into this country. There\u2019s a lot that they should be supporting in this Government, because we are delivering on the economy, making sure that people are doing better, and making sure the environment is going ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e318dfcc87a405b970f28f1bea472da\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. David Seymour has been raising a number of points of order today about questions from the Opposition which he regards as being out of order. That question asked the Prime Minister to speculate on Opposition parties\u2019 support or otherwise for a piece of legislation. The question itself was therefore out of order. All of the Prime Minister\u2019s answer was out of order as well, because he has no responsibility for that. I\u2019m surprised that you ruled neither the answer nor the question out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a72ac012218740cf8b6fd736d96b35e3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the question was not out of order, because I heard that in silence. Therefore, I did hear it. It was not out of order, because it was a follow-on from the matters that were brought up by the primary questioner in an earlier supplementary. I heard very little of the Prime Minister\u2019s response, largely due to the noise in the House. We\u2019ll come now to question No. 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022543bdf8911854592af06542fc87debee\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc03f193214341eb9fe03cacc035b5b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc03f193214341eb9fe03cacc035b5b2\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: E tautoko ana ia i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero me ng\u0101 mahi katoa a t\u014Dna K\u0101wanatanga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E[Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022b468b8d62aa34bafa373f23d3380645d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b468b8d62aa34bafa373f23d3380645d\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ba196834dbe487bbf9444d01a899745\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Government committed to meeting our nationally determined contribution (NDC) to the Paris Agreement to limit global warming below 1.5 degrees?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed01984001264140a7843b13bb32a32c\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we\u2019re going to work incredibly hard to deliver on our climate commitments and goals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aae107a099094e80b3860672e9ea6ebf\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Is that a yes or a no answer to whether his Government is committed to meeting our nationally determined contribution?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cab49f98e554a1b9783f69eb64c8130\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member will know that yes or no answers can\u2019t be required. So without losing the supplementary, try again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022320ac3db3355472b830447720333fae3\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister and his Government committed to meeting our nationally determined contribution?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218fd3af247dc4334aa744920824074c6\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re going to do everything we can to meet some very ambitious goals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bf1ad188402450d9e9246ee749a16d5\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Is that answer to be taken that this Government is not committed to meeting our nationally determined contribution to the Paris Agreement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220aeafd90de941e4ac407353c0afd699\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d9920d94b0e4c35a97f1d13429dc3c9\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: What, then, are we to make of answers from the Prime Minister, refusing to give a yes or no answer as to whether we will meet our nationally determined contribution out to 2030?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293635cfbd73b4fa1a00afd44afa0209c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the problem is, even asking it that way requires a yes or no answer. That\u2019s not how the place works. So the member could ask that question again without penalty, because it\u2019s Christmas time\u2014end of year, great generosity; all that sort of thing\u2014and try and ask the question in a way that brings it into line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a8867e24aa245d5851477bc69bc79b4\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister aware that the Ministry for the Environment and Treasury last year forecasted that we could be on the hook for up to $24 billion to pay other countries to reduce their emissions if we refuse to do it here at home under our nationally determined contribution?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e84519267b42420eae7cb7eac48c4932\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Our Government\u2019s very committed to delivering on our net carbon 2050 goals and doing everything we can to deliver on NDC 2030.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4da35b6d3374cf888dc59a7cedc9ba1\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister tell us which party\u2019s Minister on this issue incurred us a potential of $22 billion being owed offshore, and for how long was he\u00A0here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261a9daa25783416899d9cbcf7034c9f2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Ah, no\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022661f6ca713e34f9ca0c585e410aab506\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, come on, we all know the story\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0018e66c290486a9dd11a396563be0d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well, look, it\u2019s a great general debate line; it\u2019s brilliant. But it\u2019s not particularly useful for question time and directed at the Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225db03fa659ae47fa915fb93404faeeee\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Mr Speaker, that is the fourth question from a Government Minister\u2014the third from the Deputy Prime Minister\u2014that you have ruled to be out of order. Is there going to be any attempt to try and curtail this or is it just going to be allowed to continue all through the remaining two years of this term?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e73f533c5a9640ea9d9626bf77e18aa7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I don\u2019t know, because I don\u2019t know how many further out-of-order questions there\u2019ll be. But I previously have stated that if it continues, then the question lines will be terminated. So I\u2019m being a bit flexible today to both questions being asked and answered, but that question was out of order and not required to be answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1f3236ef4364812af4cdf545e8171a9\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Should the New Zealand public be concerned that the Prime Minister of this Government is refusing to commit to meet our nationally determined contribution out to 2030, only promising that he is hopeful that we will do so?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a05ad2bf9f1f4c53b97adb00bf508817\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, this Government is committed to net carbon 2050. That\u2019s our commitment. That\u2019s what we\u2019re working towards. Our emissions budget 1 puts us on track to do that. Emissions budget 2 puts us on track to do that, and you\u2019ll hear more about that with the emissions reduction plan announced this week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022313719fe7e564f01a2bdab96bf413d4d\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: The NDCs, Christopher. It\u2019s $24 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b5b83962485468899c5b456e5a7a40e\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d just say to that member, if you actually cared about the environment\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207f52d6d71d74986882b99fc103c1b0d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on, hang on, wait. Please, just listen to the answer to the question that you\u2019ve asked. If the question was important, listen to the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e592a717f4ed4c94a49b3336e8969488\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d just say to that member, I think she and her party should get behind the fast-track legislation. We are looking at a 30 percent increase in renewable electricity generation from those 22 fantastic renewable electricity projects. We want the benefit of renewable electricity sooner rather than later. It\u2019s a good idea. Why don\u2019t you support it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229208d86860cf469abcfddb7d526fd409\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Children\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u002211babc09a2f34b0b9967a8c26b9b3e43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211babc09a2f34b0b9967a8c26b9b3e43\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Children: Does she stand by all her statements and actions in relation to the Military-Style Academy Pilot and young offending; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022 data-id=\u002297b95fc0e31b4cccbf236a5655db0c34\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297b95fc0e31b4cccbf236a5655db0c34\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context in which I said and did them; in particular, my statements that Oranga Tamariki does not have the ability to restrict the movement of these young people, or the choices they make once they leave the residence and return to the community, and also my statement that we have already seen success with the military-style academy, including involvement for the participants in jobs, education, and training. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e57386198376492e963e1e0637bd6533\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement in relation to the young serious offenders legislation that \u201CThen we can actually have a more intensive programme where it\u2019s not just three months in, nine months out; it\u2019ll be 12 months in, 12 months out with the option of extra time if the young person still needs it.\u201D, and, if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255597bba10904c27b639fce9c4ecb722\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: The new legislation will allow the ability for a judge or a court to decide on the level of intensive response that is needed for a young person based on their needs. It is to be no less than three months, but no more than 12 months. Each young person has their own issues that they are dealing with and may need a different level of intervention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263ad22abff364f50b99320ada1a33b6b\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Will she rule out any involvement of the New Zealand Defence Force or Corrections in any future military-style academy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229103503576544bef8d2d8553a75e1284\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not responsible for Corrections or Defence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214cbf3ccb8324742a0364787c6ff7761\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. It is in relation to the military-style academies; I have asked if she will rule out their involvement in the military-style academy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022377733f1b01e4223b8b8e92d0a78479f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: From the point of view of the Minister for Children, I think the Minister could expand on that answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f07a7c348a148719dbe5066726b0e4d\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: This is a pilot that is ongoing that has worked with Defence and has worked with multiple agencies to make sure that we get the best outcomes for these young people, and those will be future discussions to be had.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acb0785d8fee4c9d9dea79cd9f7185b7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Laura Trask.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225757dbde46af4efa9fa86b63220f735c\u0022\u003ELaura McClure\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s Laura McClure now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227986656e6d564deb982750aba316dee9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, OK, I got that wrong, sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea5680f29a3e453f9667d547086d9f6b\u0022\u003ELaura McClure\u003C/span\u003E: No worries. What would the alternative be for these 10 young people if they hadn\u2019t been on the military-style pilot programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251616f4502e247bca0995bea7f9390b3\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: These young people were already in a youth justice facility, on a supervision and residence order from a judge. If they were not on the pilot, they would still have been released back into the community at the end of their order. However, they would not have had the extra support the pilot provided, such as intensive case management, a one-on-one intensive mentor, psychologists, social workers, and other service providers that were working with them to help keep them on track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281abffc9d65341278a85d28fd2bb65e0\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: How many participants, in total, have allegedly reoffended, including offending not involving police, or breached the conditions of their in-community transition plan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b9e4c437218417ca495611ca462244b\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s some questions in there that I may not be able to answer because they may not be to my knowledge, but there have been three young people that have had accusations of reoffending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b63644809d4947d2a7e7c0dc407c7a9b\u0022\u003ELaura McClure\u003C/span\u003E: What recent statements has she seen about the military-style academy pilot?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd25b5a99ca74f338a2ea3d4d49972e4\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s been many statements that have been put out into the public, and I think there\u2019s one in particular that needs to be clarified. It was suggested that a young person had died in the military-style academy pilot. This is simply untrue. A young person has tragically died in the community whilst in wh\u0101nau placement. The attempt to use the death of a young person for political gain is absolutely shameful and disgusting, and that statement was actually shared on social media by someone who should have known better, and that was Green MP Tamatha Paul. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b65cb6ea13d4e30bbd8e39473387ac6\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205d85e09c77d480e9530b54a9d881fde\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Let\u2019s give the House a few seconds to settle itself down. Now would be\u00A0good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d971abf96d64a86934c50b5d4e4071f\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: In relation to the previous question I asked, has Oranga Tamariki advised you of any other incidents?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbc501f5f90b45faa793f5ad1f3ddb55\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Nothing that was in the public interest currently that I can speak to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022767c835a54b74d10a0ea544cfdd1f2e4\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: If she sees any harm being done to children in the military-style academies\u2014in residence or in the community\u2014will she promise to shut them down?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c799fcd39994488a922508217cac748d\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: In all seriousness, I came into this role to make the lives of young people better. Children and young people have been hurt and harmed for over 20 to 30 years. The royal commission report has brought this to our attention. What I can say is I will put all safety mechanisms that I can in place to keep these young people safe, but we cannot continue to do what we were doing, which was absolutely nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224bee8dd43bb74528886b6a2319c59528\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1ecfab7813f4570bcafc7f1c5cae815\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1ecfab7813f4570bcafc7f1c5cae815\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What recent announcements has he made on restoring democratic accountability to transport in Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00222b72585c891344a9958ca77c821f3cd6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b72585c891344a9958ca77c821f3cd6\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E On Friday, I announced, alongside Auckland Mayor Wayne Brown, that our Government is restoring democratic accountability to transport decision-making in Auckland, ensuring voters can hold their elected representatives accountable for the city\u2019s transport policies. The changes we\u2019re making will ensure that transport policies have democratic legitimacy and democratic accountability, something that has been sorely lacking in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e21f1f9729304bd99f20f8c9dc4573ea\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: What reforms are the Government making to transport decision-making in Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bc811330dac41d298da35ef1ff2cefa\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, our reforms will return regional transport policy and planning to Auckland Council; establish a new Auckland regional transport committee, which will develop a 30-year integrated transport plan for Auckland, designate Auckland Council as Auckland\u2019s road-controlling authority, and empower Auckland Council to have control over its council-controlled transport organisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1d66efea9014e3b8fd5180848981143\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government restoring democratic accountability to transport in Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a074ddc84d74bde8d477443a7b29881\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Aucklanders have become increasingly frustrated with how transport decisions are being made and how little their views have been taken into account. Even Auckland Transport\u2019s recent annual report highlighted that only 29 percent of Aucklanders felt the organisation listens and responds to their needs. To address these concerns, we\u2019re restoring democratic decision-making for transport in Auckland, and if Aucklanders continue to feel the transport system isn\u2019t working for them, they can hold their local elected representatives to account at the ballot box.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cf21a64d7ab4a328e56f2d92a4fcb44\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: What do these important reforms mean for Aucklanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256662059e11c4291bfff807b7709bd62\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, these reforms will mean there\u2019ll be greater long-term planning between central and local government, with a 30-year integrated transport plan; focus on delivery with a transport council-controlled organisation focused on delivering transport services and infrastructure; and accountability over decisions made in local communities, such as removing car parks, installing speed bumps, putting cycleways in place. Aucklanders will be able to hold their elected members to account at the ballot box.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002260e6387e2c82464bb459044b67f5f82d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Science, Innovation and Technology \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee86660a75e340908434987d948f7c68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee86660a75e340908434987d948f7c68\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Science, Innovation and Technology: Is she comfortable with her decision to cut social sciences and humanities research from the Marsden Fund, and, if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00221a47858680a649e2afaa519fff439688\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a47858680a649e2afaa519fff439688\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Science, Innovation and Technology):\u003C/span\u003E Unsurprisingly, yes, I am. Last week\u2019s changes to the around $78 million Marsden Fund ensure our limited funding is focused on the areas of science research with the greatest potential to grow our economy while enhancing quality of life for New Zealanders. The Marsden Fund will continue to support blue-skies research, but will now focus on those core science areas more likely to lead to scientific breakthroughs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4ae20a9971e4de794e69734d665eb1d\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement that the Marsden Fund should \u201Cfocus on core scientific research that helps lift our economic growth and contributes to science with a purpose.\u201D, and, if so, is she confident that the science system will still be able to address the most pressing challenges facing Aotearoa today, when it is simply funding a narrow and politically manufactured definition of a science system, based purely on economic gain?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268f82141648244d0b698880bdb13082f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Now, there\u2019s a whole lot of that question that was out of order, but the substance of it can be answered by the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e97fd546bae54a5babd9031a4700fc87\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, thank you, Mr Speaker. Look, I\u2019m very confident that we\u2019ll be going to be doing even better science than what we have been doing. And, certainly, it\u2019s wrong to say that the entire focus will be on economic gain; only 50 percent of the applications, or around that, will need to show that they can actually start to grow the economy and they have potential to do so. There is still blue-skies research, but it will be on science.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9316be6a4f948fda32a4aa18cf26de3\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Is she saying that research on housing, homelessness, poverty, poor achievement in schools, racial hatred and terrorism, crime rates, violence, discrimination, the marginalisation of groups in society, social cohesion, mental health, addiction, and poor health outcomes does not \u201Ccontribute to science with a purpose.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c418b28d719b4f0ab2fa647027e185db\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t want to pick on any particular area that the member\u2019s raised, but I will say that most of those that he\u2019s named are not science. They are, however, very important, and many of those are already funded through the funding that the universities get\u2014if I think about things like, for instance, the Performance-based Research Fund, the centres of research excellence, and tuition subsidies. In addition to that, many Government departments commission research to support policy objectives, including some of those that the member\u2019s raised, social and cultural outcomes\u2014for example, the Treasury; the Reserve Bank; the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment; the Ministry for Primary Industries; the Ministry for the Environment; the Department of Conservation; and others. In essence, this is targeted funding for science, and it will be staying with science while I\u2019m the\u00A0Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3849c4c1b3c428c96c8c5c3b674831e\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain what she means by \u201Cscience\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a3b399eec37496b8f67814ae078a01c\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think it\u2019s really important to go back\u2014so, I mean, when I was at school, we learnt about maths; so we learnt chemistry, biology, physics. We learnt about science. We also understood that in order to deal with some of the big issues of the world\u2014whether it\u2019s climate change, whether it\u2019s pollution, whether it\u2019s those sorts of issues\u2014we need to go to science. So, you know, when I look at some of the things that I would like to talk to him about, and you mentioned some of the things that I consider science, that have been funded this year through Marsden\u2014\u201CMapping how viruses get into and travel around B cells and lymph nodes\u201D; that\u2019s science. \u201CProducing next-generation materials that can capture methane\u201D\u2014that\u2019s science. \u201CThe molecular mechanisms driving gastric cancer survival rates: understanding the role of nuclear immune systems\u201D\u2014yes, no, no, that\u2019s science. \u201CUnleashing the potential of titanium as a replacement for precious metal catalyst by fixing it to solid supports\u201D\u2014yeah, no, that\u2019s science too. And I\u2019d also say that there\u2019s quite a lot of science that\u2019s currently being funded, but I do not think $360,000 of taxpayer money to look at what are the implications of policing climate justice activism\u2014nah, that\u2019s not science.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dced616e18fb4d8c8eb8e8644bb38295\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8bdc682ff984d758d921e17a34b4dda\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll just\u2014just quiet, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e04d00b8ef1d4355aadf11abb4b19993\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement regarding social sciences and humanities research that \u201CThere is actually no payback at all for the New Zealand taxpayer.\u201D, or does she see value for taxpayers in research which helps Aotearoa avoid costly climate change adaptation impacts by combining modelling and science with social research?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eafca0e9776b4e58aab941946f99ff72\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think I made it really clear that social sciences\u2014research into those\u2014there\u2019s already loads of funding for that. It\u2019s in various areas but it\u2019s not going to be coming out of my science budget; I want to make that really clear. These are the things I\u2019ve listed off what I think is science\u2014I do actually accept that they need to be funded. I\u2019m not happy with things like $360,000 going for Big Things, Complex Shadows: Investigating Intersecting Stories Of Place, Identity, And Erasure Through Aotearoa\u2019s Large Roadside Sculptures in Aotearoa. And this is all about, basically, the carrot outside Paeroa. No, I don\u2019t think that\u2019s science, sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e360008e8474197b1e468b3ac272308\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u003C/span\u003E: How do these changes to the Marsden Fund align with the Crown\u2019s obligations under Te Tiriti o Waitangi to actively protect and promote M\u0101ori knowledge and development?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a951a77c9df47cdb32be9e44bea9e90\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Look, what I think is really important to realise is that if there are science applications or science research applications that are relevant with Vision M\u0101tauranga policy, that\u2019s fine, too\u2014they\u2019re still relevant\u2014and I think that\u2019s really important. But I don\u2019t think that M\u0101ori or anyone else in New Zealand, apart from a few, might be that excited about the fact that they want to look at the history of big things that were put outside towns in the 1980s. I mean, next thing the member will be suggesting that we fund a study into those great big pou that are around those wonderful roads of national significance, but I actually don\u2019t think that\u2019s science. It might be interesting\u2014ain\u2019t science.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284e6e09c781845d3aff9b74f28cf7fb0\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that many M\u0101ori happen to view science as a method of building knowledge by testing falsifiable hypotheses through empirical observation, and to suggest that we don\u2019t get that and are into superstition or that the Treaty requires us to be into superstition instead of science is, frankly, offensive?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022325ccbf97aed4346b07a9e725b8f6793\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s a great statement but not a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e8bc7ea0c85241efae97cd49e2522f17\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u00226df04d0f8d3d431fabe8735e6165c33e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226df04d0f8d3d431fabe8735e6165c33e\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What recent announcements has the Government made regarding new work-focused support for people on jobseeker benefits?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc1ac7b9bc6f45a5b5d8d07fd4d9fdde\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc1ac7b9bc6f45a5b5d8d07fd4d9fdde\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m pleased to say that we have recently expanded the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s (MSD) phone-based case management service to support 10,000 job seekers. This has increased the total number of people who are being supported by an MSD employment case manager at any time to 70,000. All 70,000 will now be eligible to receive a new, more comprehensive needs assessment of the challenges that might be holding them back from finding work and a personalised job plan to overcome them. These new supports add to the ever growing suite of welfare initiatives that we have introduced in our first year and demonstrate our commitment to delivering better public services and supporting more people to move off welfare and into work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc1cc13746314bfa8eb918db8cbddd54\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: How do individual job plans work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8d69f865ca4431ea719e6ef9218b137\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Individual job plans will begin with a comprehensive work-readiness needs assessment that will go beyond someone\u2019s work experience, availability, and career aspirations. It will examine any barriers to employment that they may have, such as their reading and writing skills, childcare needs, driver-licensing requirements, and how comfortable they are with digital technology, as well as any physical or mental health issues that they may have. Their case manager will work with them to come up with a personalised plan to address these issues and for a time line to complete them. The job seeker will then be referred to any training programmes or support services as required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f8e96e528d54e2b92a926b44e67f00f\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Government consider new work-focused support necessary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fade4ea333134672a28b73cbdd65365a\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Slowing benefit exit rates in previous years has contributed to a significant increase in the amount of time people on benefits are predicted to spend on welfare. For instance, people under the age of 25 who come on to a main benefit are currently forecast to spend an average of about 20 future years on welfare over their lifetime. This is a 49 percent increase over the figures in 2017. We also know that many people on jobseeker support have complex backgrounds, and not being able to read instructions properly or take the company van out to run errands because they don\u2019t have a driver\u2019s licence is holding them back from finding work. We want MSD assessing the needs of job seekers early so that they can identify issues and get the help they need to overcome them faster.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b8fde9c1bd3410e95d428824c90de4a\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: What is the benefit of having more people in employment case management?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022799b7e8b43f04122b7b423653ff8ecf4\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Case managers provide greater opportunities for job seekers, but the most important is the regular one-on-one support that people on benefit get to help them in their job search. Case managers know their communities and how to use local networks to find the work that is available. They help job seekers to upskill and train, to create a CV or cover letter and get connected with any wraparound support that they might need. I\u2019m really pleased that our Government\u2019s focus on delivering better public services has seen MSD\u2019s phone-based case management service rapidly grow from assisting 1,500 people in July to 10,000 today, meaning significantly more people are receiving one-on-one support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a4ca016db8ee46a39569c0e5a659669f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00222cdb43318989475585850f669d06513a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222cdb43318989475585850f669d06513a\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Does he stand by his statement, \u201CHaving considered my performance over the last year in Government, I believe that I have delivered on my promise for New Zealanders to see change in my first 12 months as Police Minister\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u002263061c714d154bc58416f5fc77cf374f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263061c714d154bc58416f5fc77cf374f\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do: victimisations are down, ram raids are down, aggravated robberies are down, serious assaults are down, burglaries are down, crime in the Auckland CBD is down. Foot patrols are up. Police are back on their core role, keeping communities safe. Gang patches are banned. The gangs have found out that they\u2019re not above the law, and police do outstanding work every day reminding them it\u2019s them who control the streets. Earlier this year, TVNZ polled the public and asked if they felt safer; they did it again last night. The good news is more people feel safer. I recognise that there\u2019s still a lot of work to do. We\u2019ve inherited, as an incoming Government, a terrible situation left by the previous Government, and it\u2019s going to take a lot of hard work to get on top of that, and we acknowledge that, but we\u2019re seeing good movement in the right direction. There was one poll that was taken when the previous member was Minister of Police\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263e1a717b4ad4e0aa1ced67df7328d79\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, hang on\u2014hang on, wait on. I think the question\u2019s been answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6de8dbb9e474e9e948c13da6ca2ab00\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Was the Deputy Commissioner of Police correct about the delivery of 500 more police at the annual review when he stated, \u201CWhen that wing graduates on 26 June 2026, we\u2019re projected to have achieved that by that date.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a96d51432a584452b11fb909b2678999\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, he was correct in stating that the funding by this Government goes through to June 2026. That\u2019s how appropriations work. But he would also agree with me and say that under this coalition Government, an excellent recruitment policy brought by our partners New Zealand First for 500 additional police officers is to be delivered in November of this year, unlike the previous Government, who promised 1,800 and only delivered 1,500.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222325ce380d564132aa8a240c654b90ed\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Was the Commissioner of Police wrong when he told One News that he was confident that 500 more police would be delivered in 2026; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225446ecd363dd4e84b814dbdccfaf4b1b\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Because he knows that there\u2019s going to be a lot more police on the street in 2026. But the reality of it is that the commissioner agrees with the deputy commissioner and agrees with me that our target is to deliver 500 additional police officers in November of this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293b8b7298772463c980c644c5edcf772\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Do you agree with the Commissioner of Police\u2019s statement \u201Cif it takes us a little bit of extra time to produce the best men and women of our organisation for the front line, then we\u2019ll take that [time].\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd85c56223e54e519d02aed55151ed1e\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think we\u2019ve got an outstanding Commissioner of Police, and we were very, very pleased to make that appointment. I think that he recognises, as do we, that standards are extremely important. That\u2019s why the Police College is now delivering a 20-week course instead of a 16-week course. The commissioner agrees with me that we have our target, an aspirational target, a very good target, delivering 500 additional police officers in November.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221165bff838a4d9ca325a706345c2413\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Who is correct: Casey Costello, who said, \u201CI think it\u2019s really important to get the context of what the commissioner was saying.\u201D\u2014and it was that he had said there was no deviation from the commitment to achieve November 2025\u2014or the Commissioner of Police, who publicly stated on the national news that Police will have 500 more police in 2026?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202dfcf20f80243b7a62a0cb8c1601229\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they\u2019re both right. Casey Costello\u2019s absolutely 100\u00A0percent correct, as we are committed to delivering 500 police officers in November of this year. The Police Commissioner is also correct in saying there\u2019ll be 500 additional police officers in 2026, because there will be\u2014they would\u2019ve been delivered in November 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236d414aacdf348abb5bcc1a851f667e1\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Who is correct: the police Minister on 30 January, who said it would take three years to deliver the 500; the police Minister, who said, the next day, after a phone call from Winston Peters, that the 500 would be delivered in two years; or the Commissioner of Police, who said just last week it would take three years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022634408fad075433b894215f6f4549993\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: The problem the member has is she\u2019s got no credibility around her information sources and figures, so that\u2019s a whole lot of rambling mumbo-jumbo. I just want to say that on this side of the House, in this coalition Government, we are deadly serious about public safety and we are focused on making sure that we\u2019re a safer country. We inherited a shambles from the previous Government that wasn\u2019t focused on that. We are laser-focused on it, and we\u2019ll deliver our police officers and we\u2019ll make New Zealand a safer place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2197895303e40da8b7cb9837c6b8d37\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister taking a very cautionary tone because the record is of a former promise to deliver 1,800 but we delivered 2,338, only to see a massive reduction in those numbers under a Labour-alone Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fffc95a64828402484ccadfee7794030\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Well, look, the Deputy Prime Minister makes a very good point, which is that the previous Government promised to deliver 1,800 police officers. They missed their target three times\u2014I think it\u2019s three times\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c59ce35cbce48bbb9db63584e257dad\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re not here to discuss the previous Government. It\u2019s the rules of the House. You want to change the rules? Turn up to the Standing Orders Committee and have a shot at it there\u2014not in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e03f99a7ee554340b61585f780dfd9d2\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Does he regret not fronting up to scrutiny week and showing some leadership now that he is left with no other option but to gaslight New Zealanders about the broken promise to deliver 500 more police in two years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3ae9625d9ab4ae885b6ad2f8417bdfb\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Oh no, don\u2019t worry. I front up all right\u2014don\u2019t worry about that. I get around the country and I constantly get asked, \u201CWhere\u2019s that Chris Hipkins and Ginny Andersen that walked around with\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ddb7e9f9b44410496bbfbe6a816fb51\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, that\u2019s enough. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad6d7931fa9e4c9ca9384250c230121c\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the police are successfully implementing the gang patch ban, and have there been any commentators or other members of this House who\u2019ve had a road to Damascus experience on that one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9e1fa43648f43ebaf2c02e38e1b65e6\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Very good question. So after 12 months of hearing from those commentators and others that the police didn\u2019t have the capability and the gangs were too strong, I think the police have answered that one in the last two weeks. They\u2019ve done an\u00A0outstanding job in policing the new gang legislation, and they\u2019ve let the country know\u2014and the country\u2019s responded to it\u2014that they are controlling the streets, not the gangs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f657aed8a2024156a0b405545208da3a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Building and Construction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022 data-id=\u00220a6e80af99494878af92181e03aef1bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a6e80af99494878af92181e03aef1bc\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD (National\u2014New Plymouth)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Building and Construction: What announcements has he made around reducing the cost of building?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u00229418b5f1fa3b47a88721a3e5ef449931\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229418b5f1fa3b47a88721a3e5ef449931\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E We\u2019ve made many such announcements, but yesterday we announced that we\u2019re proposing sensible changes to the installation standards for energy efficiency that will enable a more flexible approach to be taken to achieve the same standards but in a more nuanced fashion that will have the added benefit of reducing cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230245b850ac147a6b86c7e7dcd681fac\u0022\u003EDavid MacLeod\u003C/span\u003E: Why was change needed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022839a8519fa834c928508bdf44504041a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: The context is that since 2019, the cost of construction increased by 40 percent. That was due to many different factors, including additional costs imposed by the rules in the form that they were imposed that came into effect late last year. So our approach was to consider ways that we might be able to achieve the same standards in a more flexible or nuanced way, relying on the calculation and modelling methods as opposed to the more prescriptive schedule method in the building code.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ae524902dc944f9bbb48271d48dba3d\u0022\u003EDavid MacLeod\u003C/span\u003E: What changes are being proposed to the installation standards?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226511b8cdb28e4383a0c49c4ecd5a8f36\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve referenced the proposed removal of the schedule method, meaning that in different parts of the country with different climactic conditions, we will allow designers and builders to take account of the requirements in those areas in a way that makes sense for those conditions. We are adjusting the minimum R-values in the installation, for example, in the walls, so that the overall building design can get us to the place that we need to be for the purpose of energy efficiency, respiratory health, energy efficiency and therefore cost, all without increasing the additional cost that had been imposed in the rules in the form that they had been introduced last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226936a294f6d4437fa096b64f0c659e79\u0022\u003EDavid MacLeod\u003C/span\u003E: What impacts will these changes have on building costs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225410fd1ea3144f55bf6c71fa329e6ba8\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: We hope and expect that they will reduce the cost considerably in many cases. The figures provided by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment in relation to the first part of the consultation ahead of the public consultation that will now take place indicates that up to $15,000 may be saved in the case of each new build. So we think it\u2019s a very positive result and we\u2019re grateful for the engagement that\u2019s got us to this outcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e9279d7620384c25a2febde3c59ab584\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Energy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u00228e3d573bf49d48dd94d695e6d40af530\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e3d573bf49d48dd94d695e6d40af530\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister for Energy: What recent announcements has he made regarding fuel security?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u00225ee5f2667ab74113bfaa2d5cd1b5f333\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ee5f2667ab74113bfaa2d5cd1b5f333\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Associate Minister for Energy):\u003C/span\u003E Fuel security is at the apex of our concerns in terms of our economy. Sadly, the security was undermined as the closure of the Marsden Point refinery was green lighted by the Labour Government. To reverse that imperilment, what we have done is announce that new rules are about to be put in place to ensure that we have at least 10 days of jet fuel at the country\u2019s busiest airport. Sadly, this was due to be implemented over the last three to five years and has taken the arrival of the matua to address this problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273c2f1c20106469a94b5edef3bbe64c4\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: Why is fuel security important?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d111552cd2443009d19a1a4a5a75357\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Fuel security is an important part of broader energy security, and no one, sadly, when that unwise decision to cancel the oil and gas industry, ever imagined it would depend on Indonesian coal. We cannot afford to recreate a situation where jet fuel supply was undermined and we had planes diverted, reducing our connectivity with the rest of the world. A 2019 Government inquiry into the fuel supply disruption concluded that regulations and a remedy needed to be found in a rapidly short period of time. Sadly, this lingered. That has undermined perceptions about our resilience. Consequently, we will no longer allow our energy sector, in relation to fuel security, to be imperilled further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225330745a69ba4facb5d37267b422414a\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: When will the new rules come into place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db16d67dbb6640fdad92773f5acba87e\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: The new rules will be in place by November 2026. This is to ensure that no indiscriminate decisions are made which have unintended consequences, as was the case with the Labour Government\u2019s closure of the oil and gas industry in New Zealand. Therefore, we are working with the fuel companies, but they know that there is no time left\u2014no opportunity for wriggle room. They have to respect that if they want their social licence to be esteemed in New Zealand, they have to step up to the plate and not further undermine our fuel security, as, sadly, was the legacy of the Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3da3aaeefd24e52bf2e587251df9201\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: What other actions is he taking to ensure fuel security?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d79e74bd7e143da80d3d8d47e84e2b3\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Well, obviously the oil and gas industry is about to be re-established, but I\u2019m confident that the 21-day cover for diesel or for jet fuel as a stockholding rule will boost our resilience. We are also completing an independent study on the options as to how Marsden Point may further play a role in respect of fuel security, and indeed whether there\u2019s a case for a bespoke set of planning regulations to protect the strategic importance of that site, given it was trashed over the last three years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223879ef7d41074b33bd7eb8d8bf3b5fb5\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022865aab2077064936b3d96987a560a7ac\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00224579d730d67242fd90a84f532771208b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224579d730d67242fd90a84f532771208b\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That urgency be accorded to the introduction of the Broadcasting (Repeal of Advertising Restrictions) Amendment Bill, the introduction and passing through all stages of the Racing Industry (Unlawful Destruction of Specified Greyhounds) Amendment Bill, the first readings and referral to select committee of the Racing Industry Amendment Bill and the Employment Relations (Pay Deductions for Partial Strikes) Amendment Bill, the committee stage of the Fast-track Approvals Bill, the remaining stages of the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill, the third reading of the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products Amendment Bill (No 2), the first readings and referral to select committee of the Social Security Amendment Bill and the Crimes Legislation (Stalking and Harassment) Amendment Bill, and the remaining stages of the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill and the Therapeutic Products Act Repeal Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe Racing Industry (Unlawful Destruction of Specified Greyhounds) Amendment Bill needs to be passed tonight so that these dogs are protected. The Broadcasting (Repeal of Advertising Restrictions) Amendment Bill is being introduced so that it will be available for debate next week. The Racing Industry Amendment Bill, the Employment Relations (Pay Deductions for Partial Strikes) Amendment Bill, the Social Security Amendment Bill, and the Crimes Legislation (Stalking and Harassment) Amendment Bill are all having their first readings and are being sent to select committee so that the submission process can get under way. The Fast-track Approvals Bill committee stage will take the time so that this will allow for the House\u2019s consideration of this important piece of legislation. The smoke-free bill is a quarter four commitment to pass and is partway completed, and this Government is committed to seeing it passed before Christmas. Urgency is also required to have the following legislation in force by the end of the year: the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill, the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill, and the Therapeutic Products Repeal Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fd20e8aee3424512b1e7dc7c97c93781\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That urgency be accorded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b7b5bc305b174b8e9a338a4dc2c61ca1\u0022\u003EIntroduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229240d0446b1b4469a37e4015aedfffdd\u0022\u003EIntroduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022316e1a46a92343119d448d6261a38c14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022316e1a46a92343119d448d6261a38c14\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I understand it is the intention of the Government to introduce two bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00220ce81258feec4a15864270fa5b39e837\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ce81258feec4a15864270fa5b39e837\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EBroadcasting (Repeal of Advertising Restrictions) Amendment Bill, introduction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ERacing Industry (Unlawful Destruction of Specified Greyhounds) Amendment Bill, introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022fca160277a7c4f74be0a56f3e7c9325a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fca160277a7c4f74be0a56f3e7c9325a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Broadcasting (Repeal of Advertising Restrictions) Amendment Bill is set down for first reading next sitting day. The Racing Industry (Unlawful Destruction of Specified Greyhounds) Amendment Bill is set down for first reading immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022767921987e4343e590074d0e6c839867\u0022\u003ERacing Industry (Unlawful Destruction of Specified Greyhounds) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a7e40462bb644614a14c5a5b7ca21a73\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022606e896c4f26456ab069095fea880f14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022606e896c4f26456ab069095fea880f14\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister for Racing):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Racing Industry (Unlawful Destruction of Specified Greyhounds) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af9e6388bac64513bf54c26c3ff9930e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on Parliament\u2019s website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df4b966aac90467f909a645deca09f4a\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Racing Industry (Unlawful Destruction of Specified Greyhounds) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EAs announced today, it is intended that the greyhound racing industry in New Zealand will close by 1 August 2026. It is important, first, to acknowledge that this news is not the decision those in the industry wanted. There are approximately 1,054 people directly and indirectly supported by the greyhound racing industry, who work in and around the six tracks across the country. It is because of these people that this decision has been a very hard one to make. However, it is the right one and comes after serious consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ESuccessive reviews over the last 10 years have reported animal welfare concerns in the greyhound racing industry. In 2013, 2017, and 2021, different reviews all came to the same conclusion that things needed to change. In 2021, following the review into the New Zealand greyhound industry by Sir Bruce Robertson, the industry was put on notice. Since my returning as Minister for Racing last year, the greyhound racing industry has continued to be carefully monitored, with particular focus on greyhound injuries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EConsideration was given to whether stricter regulation could improve greyhound racing in a way which would allow it to continue safely. However, this was not convincing and showed that injury rates would not improve to a level which could be socially acceptable. The industry has made genuine efforts, particularly within recent years, to address the animal welfare issues, and this should be acknowledged, especially in regard to dog deaths. However, despite the multiple safety initiatives by Greyhound Racing New Zealand, injuries and serious injuries persistently remain too high.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EIn addition to these realities about injuries, public support for greyhound racing in New Zealand has declined. A poll commissioned by the SPCA, and updated within the last month, showed that 75 percent of New Zealanders would vote for an end to greyhound racing in a referendum. Worldwide, greyhound racing is also on the decline. We are one of only five countries where commercial greyhound racing remains legal. It is for these reasons and against this backdrop that the Government today has made this tough but correct decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EA two-stage legislative process has intentionally been chosen to close the industry. Two bills will, collectively, ensure that the animal welfare of the greyhounds is protected throughout this transition period through to closure and that licensed persons and stakeholders are supported through the closure process. This first bill today is to ensure that dogs are not needlessly put down. A second bill will follow next year and will be concerned with winding up the industry the right way. This will cover all remaining operational aspects of the closure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThis will give affected persons an opportunity to submit at the select committee process to have their say on how best to support them and greyhounds to transition out of the industry.\u00A0The transition to closure will be complicated and will require careful consideration. This is why the Government has appointed a ministerial advisory committee to oversee and provide advice on the remaining operational aspects of the closure. For the near 3,000 greyhounds leaving the industry, the advisory committee will work with charities concerned with rehoming greyhounds to support the greyhounds moving from the track to the couch, so to speak.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EI now wish to speak to the details of this first bill. This bill, as I say, amends the Racing Industry Act 2020 to prohibit the destruction of greyhounds that are registered with Greyhound Racing New Zealand unless it is done by a veterinarian and for the reasons in accordance with this bill. The Government expects most, if not all, people in the industry will do the right thing by their dogs. However, there is a risk with the announcement of the Government\u2019s decision today that some otherwise healthy dogs could be destroyed for no other reason than that they are no longer economically valuable. This bill will ensure their safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThis applies Greyhound Racing New Zealand\u2019s comprehensive euthanasia policy to currently registered greyhounds, regardless of whether their owners choose to exit the industry, as well as puppies born to breeding females, to ensure that they too are protected. Under this bill, a main reason a greyhound may be euthanised is when a veterinarian certifies that the greyhound is suffering from a condition or injury that causes significant pain or discomfort or worsens their quality of life so that it is inhumane or would otherwise compromise the welfare of the greyhound to delay euthanasia. This bill is, essentially, to put in protections for greyhounds as the operational plan for the closure is worked through with the industry as it winds down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThis industry has run its course, and this bill is the first step in the closure of the greyhound racing industry. It is a quick but necessary step, and could I thank, across the political divide, the other parties in Parliament\u2014all the other parties in Parliament\u2014for their committed support for this action. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd9bfec78d7141558ac0d87dee7a6011\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd9bfec78d7141558ac0d87dee7a6011\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s my opportunity as Labour\u2019s racing spokesperson to take a call on this. It\u2019s the first piece of legislation in the racing portfolio that has come to the House. I want to acknowledge the comments that the Minister has made in concluding his contribution and indicate what is already known, and that is that members on this side of the House in the Labour Party will be supporting this bill. This bill is vital. This bill is a core step in ensuring that there is a humane level of treatment for greyhounds, alongside consideration for ethical standards and also for animal welfare as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe Minister has touched on the potential impact that this decision will have for participants within the industry and, yes, he is correct in that particular space. It is hoped that by signalling a particular time frame through to August 2026 that that does provide some runway for those industry participants to do the right thing. This particular bill that the House is progressing tonight is the first part in, basically, bringing an end or a conclusion to greyhound racing in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe second part, as the Minister has said, will be subject to a full select committee process, but it is this particular bill that is progressing through urgency to ensure that there is an absolute form of protection for dogs as this bill comes into effect overnight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThere have been a number of reports over the last decade that have looked into greyhound racing: the suitability, some of the decisions that have been taken, the way in which that operation has gone about their business. The most recent of those are the Hansen report in 2017 and the Robertson report in 2021. I\u2019ll talk more about those specifically in perhaps my second reading contribution. Fundamentally, they touched on issues of transparency but also real, strong concerns around animal welfare considerations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThroughout this whole time, members on this side of the House\u2014members in the Labour Party\u2014have shone a spotlight on this issue and the concerns that we have. We have agreed with the view that the industry participants and the industry itself, when it comes to greyhound racing, have been on notice. There has been a need to do better, and we have now got to that point where the social licence that has been given to that particular component of the industry is no longer valid. It is on that basis that we very happily support this piece of legislation this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EIt also aligns with the community expectations that show a very clear and real desire to not just cease greyhound racing but to ensure that we are, when we look around the world, also doing the right thing. The Minister has touched on the number of countries that still have greyhound racing within their particular boundaries or confines, and some other members may choose to touch on that. I do think it\u2019s worth noting that the whole consideration about whether regulation would be a more appropriate way\u2014absolutely, I think this Parliament does need to turn its mind as to whether that was appropriate or not. Clearly, we have got to a particular point in time where regulation is not an option. It was an option, but it\u2019s no longer an option, simply given the state of affairs that we find ourselves in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe focus needs to very clearly be on transitioning this industry and its participants in a safe way to signal a very clear desire and an absolute willingness to rehome as many greyhounds as is possible. What this bill does is it, basically, provides an additional layer of protection involving a veterinarian\u2014a professional in this particular space\u2014alongside the existing policy framework that exists within Greyhound Racing New Zealand to ensure that that transition process is a smooth one but also it can be a timely one in terms of giving a runway in that regard as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWe do support all stages of this particular bill being progressed to provide the certainty that participants will need as part of this decision that has been taken by the Government and will be supported by the Parliament. On that basis, I commend this bill to the House currently and through the remaining stages this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u002297b390fd50164f428cdab2769574dccb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297b390fd50164f428cdab2769574dccb\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This is a very good day for the welfare of greyhounds; they have a right to live without suffering. After years of advocacy by animal welfare experts and veterinary experts and the Green Party, we are very happy to hear the Government has listened to the voices of animal lovers country-wide and taken a long-overdue decision to bring an end to greyhound racing on 1 August 2026. I will be glad, today, to remove my bill to ban greyhound racing from the ballot\u2014a bill that I inherited from the\u00A0honourable Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, who also advocated for a long time in this space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EI particularly want to acknowledge the decisive decision by the Minister for Racing, the Hon Winston Peters, to take this action today. Minister, this is an important decision and it is a very special one, as you said in your statement earlier today. We acknowledge, also, the willingness of the Minister to have his office involve us in discussions about how best to achieve an outcome in the best interests of the animals, and it\u2019s good to see today he has the assurance that the entire House will be supporting the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003ERacing is inherently dangerous for dogs. On any given day at a greyhound race, dogs risk suffering from broken bones, dislocations, ruptured muscles, spinal damage, and wounds. Some dogs are left permanently disabled, and others suffer injuries so catastrophic they need to be euthanised. Multiple investigations in the industry reveal countless issues beyond injuries, including poor kennel conditions and methamphetamine exposure, and\u2014even under intense scrutiny\u2014the industry\u2019s efforts have not been sufficient to address these fundamental problems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EI do, however, want to acknowledge that the industry and some members of it have made significant efforts in recent times. We met with Edward Rennell from Greyhound Racing New Zealand, and I came away from that meeting convinced that he had a genuine commitment to trying to achieve the best outcomes for dogs. I would appeal to Greyhound Racing New Zealand to do all in your power to ensure that we centre the welfare and the protection of greyhounds in this time, which, no doubt, will be a difficult time for the industry. In the winding-down of greyhound racing in New Zealand, we must ensure the dogs are kept safe, and we must also rightly acknowledge the impact it will have on workers and those who depend on the industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EWe will certainly be supporting this legislation before us at this moment, which is to ensure that any euthanising of dogs is done for the appropriate reasons, not done purely because they cease to be of economic value to the owners. This is a sensible move to pass this particular and specific first move fast through the House, in the cause of protecting the welfare of animals, and we will be commending this bill to the House. Thank you, Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022 data-id=\u00223573542a4e0943c6aa02bf4b2f8bc978\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223573542a4e0943c6aa02bf4b2f8bc978\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of ACT to speak in support of the Racing Industry (Unlawful Destruction of Specified Greyhounds) Amendment Bill. I just want to acknowledge what the Minister for Racing has said: that this is the first bill in two pieces of legislation, with his announcement today that the Government has agreed in principle to end greyhound racing in 20 months\u2014that is 1\u00A0August 2026. I want to acknowledge that this transition will have a major impact on those involved in the greyhound industry, and so I think that it is good that we are going to have that transition period and a full select committee process around the other bill which the Minister spoke to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EAs has been already acknowledged in this House, the vast majority of dog owners do care for their animals, and I want to stress that. However, this bill\u2014which we are putting through under urgency and we\u2019ll have all stages of reading today\u2014is to ensure that there are no unnecessary deaths from the announcement that was made today. I am comforted that the actual Greyhound Racing New Zealand\u2019s own euthanasia policy is actually referenced in the bill, and so I think that shows that the industry has done some thinking on what is appropriate in this area. There is much work to be done in rehoming the around 2,900 racing greyhounds, but I know some groups have already put up their hands to work alongside the Government and Greyhound Racing New Zealand in that project. This is a bill that does need to be put through under urgency\u2014it is a piece of public policy which needs to be done to ensure there are no unintended consequences from what the Government has announced today. ACT will be supporting it and commends it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u002293c6fb257f334c709e236cbd17efce7b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293c6fb257f334c709e236cbd17efce7b\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E The National Party strongly supports the Racing Industry (Unlawful Destruction of Specified Greyhounds) Amendment Bill and its passing under urgency today, taking effect very, very soon. This is a good day for the 2,900 greyhounds\u2014approximately\u2014that are out there up and down New Zealand. The welfare of racing dogs is a priority for this Government, and, as we\u2019re hearing today, across this House. This 20-month transition period, as we wind down the greyhound industry, ensures an orderly process, including support for affected individuals and the rehoming of racing dogs. This will enable us to collaborate with animal welfare organisations and to establish rehoming programmes and to save the welfare of those dogs. I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022 data-id=\u00221b173475a7c24723a806f7869400cc09\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b173475a7c24723a806f7869400cc09\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka, otir\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. E t\u016B ana ahau ki te waha i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero m\u014D Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i te rangi nei, \u0101, e kaha tautoko ana m\u0101tou i t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire\u2014I stand on behalf of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori in support of this bill. I\u2019d also like to acknowledge the Deputy Prime Minister and his party for bringing this into the House. I will be taking a short call today to make sure we don\u2019t prolong this process and to enact this bill as soon as possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EGreyhound racing will be phased out in Aotearoa New Zealand over the next 20 months. Urgent laws will prevent the unnecessary killing of racing dogs during this transition. The sport won\u2019t stop immediately but will be phased out gradually over the next 20 months to allow time to rehome the estimated 2,900 racing dogs in the industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EUrgent laws are also being passed to prevent racing dogs from being killed amid moves to end the sport. In the most recent 2023 to 2024 season, Greyhound Racing New Zealand\u2019s animal welfare report said nine dogs were euthanised because of injuries suffered during a race, up from seven the season before; 224 dogs suffered serious injuries; and a further 672\u00A0had injuries classified as minor or medium in the past season, according to the report. The SPCA has called this decision a great day for the greyhounds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, e tautoko katoa ana m\u0101tou Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E[Therefore, we in Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori wholeheartedly support this bill. Thank you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022 data-id=\u00221067f49aaa654c458b63a072ab8d30c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221067f49aaa654c458b63a072ab8d30c0\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E Like many children of the 1980s, my first experience of greyhound racing came through the first ever episode of The Simpsons and Santa\u2019s Little Helper some 35 years ago. Over those 35 years, I\u2019ve gradually learnt more about the animals involved and about the welfare of these greyhounds. Indeed, I think that, over that time, many New Zealanders have learnt more, and, indeed, attitudes have changed to the point that now our Government is the first Government that will phase out greyhound racing in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EOf course, animal welfare is first and foremost, and that\u2019s why this legislation is so important. As simple and short as it may be, it puts the welfare of these almost 3,000 animals in New Zealand first and foremost, and so this Christmas, Santa\u2019s Little Helper is our Government. I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022839308d7ed714811a749894af43d4d74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022839308d7ed714811a749894af43d4d74\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m very pleased that we have arrived at this point, and arrived to the extent where the entire Parliament supports this move. I acknowledge the work of the Minister for Racing, and I thank him for the acknowledgment that he made of the work that was done to lead up to this. Actually, if you look at today, it\u2019s one of those rare moments people keep asking us for, where the whole Parliament works together and we don\u2019t take political potshots at each other; we acknowledge the work that our opponents have done to lead to this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe fact is it\u2019s not an easy decision to close an entire industry, because there are good people who will be affected by this decision, but as the various reviews showed\u2014and the review period that greyhound racing was put under by the last Government, at the end of which I was the Minister\u2014greyhound racing is inherently dangerous. It doesn\u2019t matter how much attention and how much care and how much love people have for their animals; if the task itself is so dangerous that it leads to unacceptable levels of injury and unacceptable levels of death, then this was the only conclusion that we could reach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThere was a tremendous amount of work that went in by the industry to try and improve things, and they did make improvements, but, again, when 70 percent of the injuries occur on the corner and even now we don\u2019t have the level of infrastructure to get around that\u2014we have no real choice but to race them around on tight tracks\u2014we weren\u2019t making the improvements that would\u2019ve been necessary for greyhound racing to maintain its social licence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIt was a difficult situation for me to be in, as a lifelong racing fan. Being Minister for Racing was my personal dream in politics\u2014alongside others, obviously, but that was one thing I wanted to achieve\u2014and what I faced was the prospect of banning one of the three codes, but the evidence was so clear that, as I say, despite the efforts, there really was no other option.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, I do have a regret. I regret that because Cyclone Gabrielle hit when it did, and the direction was that cyclone-related pieces of legislation would take priority and other things would need to take a step back, this could\u2019ve happened before the last election. I personally regret that it hasn\u2019t, but I\u2019ve been reflecting on the speeches so far, and, actually, if we\u2019re honest, if the previous Government introduced the legislation, I don\u2019t think the whole of Parliament would\u2019ve supported it. Leading into an election, I\u2019m not sure that every party represented in Parliament would have got behind that piece of legislation. But we are today, and that has to be seen as a positive, because that is as clear a message as possible: that animal welfare is of the utmost importance to this Parliament and to this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EAs a proud owner of a greyhound, I would like to take the opportunity to encourage anybody that is considering taking on a dog and introducing a dog into their family: please consider a greyhound. They are the most gentle, loving, caring, fun animals anyone could ever imagine. Anyone that lives in an apartment and says, \u201CI don\u2019t have the space for a dog.\u201D\u2014try a greyhound. They are all the things I\u2019ve just mentioned, but they are also incredibly lazy. Give them a walk in the morning and they will curl up in the corner quite happily, and when you\u2019re not looking\u2014well, this is the case for my greyhound anyway\u2014they will jump on the couch; and when they hear you coming back to your office, they will jump off the couch. They are smart as well. You could not ask for a better pet to introduce to your family, as a companion for an elderly relative or a friend to a young child. They are simply the best pet you could ever hope for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s what I think we should focus on today, acknowledging the difficulty that\u2019ll be faced by those that are impacted by this decision, but, essentially, what we are collectively doing today is committing to a good life for a good animal that will be a loving part of any good family. I couldn\u2019t support this bill more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u00222899542d06874cd4ae1ac8cbb6e42078\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222899542d06874cd4ae1ac8cbb6e42078\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I may not be a greyhound owner like the previous speaker, being the owner of a Jack Russell instead, but I know just how vital dogs in general are to us as New Zealanders. Today is a great day for greyhounds\u2014it\u2019s a great day for greyhounds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EYes, it is a difficult decision for us to make as a Government, and it\u2019s great to have the support from across the House, but it\u2019s the right decision. We\u2019re making the right decision, and we\u2019ll be working through this legislation as it comes through the House and as it progresses today. I just commend the Minister, and I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u0022298a584d37d74324883646c4989ee369\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022298a584d37d74324883646c4989ee369\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is a real pleasure to take a call today as Labour\u2019s animal welfare spokesperson in support of the Racing Industry (Unlawful Destruction of Specified Greyhounds) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ECan I begin by acknowledging and thanking the Minister for Racing who has brought this bill to the House today and for his announcement. As previous speakers have said, this is a great day for greyhounds. I am well known to be a dog lover and dog owner, but I am sorry to disappoint my colleague Kieran McAnulty that I think my husband would probably seek some legal proceedings himself if I took on a greyhound in addition to the two labradors I\u2019ve brought home from the SPCA. Can I just acknowledge him for looking after those dogs while I\u2019m here. It\u2019s a burden and a joy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI think the bill that we\u2019re bringing forward today that the Minister\u2019s introduced to the House is a fantastic bill to ensure that while the industry is transitioned through a process, we can do everything we can as a Parliament to ensure the safety of greyhounds who are currently racing in the industry. This specific bill will ensure that there are safeguards in place for dogs who may be at risk of being harmed as a result of today\u2019s announcement. I\u2019ll have more to say in future readings around, I guess, how we got here, but I just wanted to focus specifically on the animal welfare clauses in the bill today, just to note those. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThe Animal Welfare Act doesn\u2019t create a right to life or restrict owners from killing healthy dogs for solely economic purposes, so what this bill will do is create an offence of imprisonment of up to 12 months or fines of up to $50,000 if someone were to breach the law that we\u2019re going to pass today. What the bill does is it incorporates Greyhound Racing New Zealand\u2019s own euthanasia policy. Others have spoken about that, but, essentially, euthanasia of a greyhound that is registered as a racing dog would need to occur within that policy and with the oversight of a veterinarian, which I think is a very, very good thing to ensure we don\u2019t have any unintended consequences from today\u2019s announcement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ELike other speakers, I do want to acknowledge the industry. I have also met with Edward Rennell of Greyhound Racing New Zealand and I do want to acknowledge there have been some improvements to the industry over the past few months. We have seen a reduction in deaths. Unfortunately, we haven\u2019t seen a big enough reduction in the number of injuries that are occurring to dogs. One of the things that we saw was\u2014and I\u2019ll talk to it a little bit later in a future contribution\u2014a beginning of some work around straight tracks. I was part of the select committee that looked at the petition of Steve Cross during the previous Parliament. One of the things that frustrated us as a committee was that for many, many years there had been talk about straight tracks, that these were safer for dogs, but we hadn\u2019t seen any introduced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI understand that people, like Edward, were working and had introduced a trial of a straight track at Whanganui, but in my view it didn\u2019t go far enough\u2014it didn\u2019t go fast enough\u2014and we hadn\u2019t seen enough change to say that this industry had changed, had done everything it could to protect the welfare of dogs, and, in my view, it has lost its social licence to operate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EToday\u2019s decision is a very, very good decision. It needed to have the appropriate analysis; robust analysis provided to it. I want to acknowledge previous racing Ministers Grant Robertson and Kieran McAnulty, who did a lot of that initial work, and now the Minister, the Rt Hon Winston Peters, who has taken that step. We support you in your decision. We will support you through the process over the next couple of years as we work with industry and work with animal welfare organisations to rehome these dogs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EToday\u2019s legislation is very, very needed to ensure that there are no unintended consequences for these dogs, who do make wonderful, wonderful pets. It\u2019s a fantastic announcement, a fantastic bill we\u2019re passing today, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022 data-id=\u00228361c917a98842c19b9d4d2079389b9c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228361c917a98842c19b9d4d2079389b9c\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This bill, as has been previously stated today, will ensure that a transitionary period for those in the greyhound racing industry is enacted and that the welfare of the dogs in the industry is ensured. We should also acknowledge the significant impact that this decision will have on the workers and their families within the industry, and it\u2019s really important that they are supported. That\u2019s why a dedicated ministerial advisory committee has been established to oversee a transition and to provide targeted advice to all those that have been impacted. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022340371a09d0d46708862650b412724a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022340371a09d0d46708862650b412724a6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is set down for second reading immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002275a94bd94a9b4ebd9909548e73f3dab7\u0022\u003ESecond Reading \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e03502fe97f3446fb48cb929f850b9d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e03502fe97f3446fb48cb929f850b9d8\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister for Racing):\u003C/span\u003E Now, look, we\u2019ve got to save a bit of time, and it\u2019s quite possible we could have the second reading just like that and go straight to the committee of the whole House stage, and people can make their extended, elongated speeches in the third reading\u2014it\u2019s only a suggestion, but don\u2019t forget where it came from!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThank you to the members across the House today for their support in progressing this bill to the second reading. It was, as outlined\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a01bd5956b94855a2f9657957d65ed6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Apologies to the Deputy Prime Minister, you have to move\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b29f901259849bc82f6c3a0262e6101\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yes, I just did that! I move, That the Racing Industry (Unlawful Destruction of Specified Greyhounds) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ERight, as was outlined in the first reading, this is a small-scope and targeted bill designed to protect greyhounds during the closure process. It is a preventative measure and is expected most, if not all, people within the greyhound industry will do the right thing by their dogs. This bill recognises that with the industry closing, these dogs are no longer as economically valuable, and some are, therefore, at risk of being unnecessarily being put down. That\u2019s why this is an urgent bill. It\u2019s in this spirit of urgency that I commend this bill, second reading, to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022d13e7081e85d45d68707f617ae340f71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d13e7081e85d45d68707f617ae340f71\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Mr Speaker. I will in a small sense take the Minister for Racing\u2019s lead in making a briefer contribution. I did, in my first reading speech, sort of touch on the couple of reports that I did want to reference, and usually in a second reading contribution, we would have heard back from the community around that, so I do want to just touch on two. That\u2019s the Hansen report, but more timely is the Robertson report that was done by Sir Bruce Robertson back in 2021, and I know that Sir Bruce had spent a bit of time actually meeting and engaging with industry to pull all of that intel, shall we say, together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EOne of the interesting things was that the outcome of those reports in terms of the context was that there was no real oversight as to the specific reasons for euthanisation, which meant that many healthy greyhounds were euthanised, and this is the exact point that this bill, under urgency, is seeking to mitigate and address. The proposition that some greyhounds would, effectively, be destroyed for no other reason except, as the Deputy Prime Minister has said, that they might no longer have at some point in the future any economic viability or benefit is something that does not sit well with members of the House. I do think that the report from Sir Bruce, which identified not just that but some of the issues around the breeding component\u2014which is also part of the Minister\u2019s bill\u2014was also very, very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI note that the consequence, if you like, for this\u2014and perhaps we\u2019ll talk about that briefly in the committee stage. The penalty is one of up to 12 months\u2019 imprisonment alongside, potentially, a $50,000 fine, and so we are talking about quite a stiff deterrent, which it needs to be. I mean, there needs to be a stiff deterrent for this, and I think what it needs to signal is that there is an expectation of Parliament that the industry might come to an end in August 2026, but until that point in time, there needs to be active efforts that are taken to rehome the many greyhounds that would be otherwise in a state of limbo until then. I\u2019ll take the Minister\u2019s lead and take my seat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00222f02e3d7c498471cb18aec2138c54134\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f02e3d7c498471cb18aec2138c54134\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u00222bea7da36d5647918b8260ab6298e039\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222bea7da36d5647918b8260ab6298e039\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I\u2019m also going to take a very short call on this and perhaps prosecute some more specific details in the committee of the whole House stage, but I just wanted to speak from the explanatory note, which I think very well outlines the importance of this particular bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThe Greyhound Racing Association actually already has a policy on ensuring proper veterinary involvement in any decision to euthanise a dog\u2014it has to be done for specific reasons\u2014and because we\u2019ve got a 1 August final closure date, it\u2019s important that we enact legislation in a timely manner to protect the welfare of the animals. Reading from that explanatory note, \u201CWhile most people in the industry will act in good faith in keeping or rehoming their greyhounds during the closure period\u201D\u2014and I think that\u2019s a very important thing to acknowledge\u2014\u201Cthere is a concern that a small number of owners may take steps to dispose of their greyhounds only because they have become less economically valuable and, with closure imminent, [Greyhound Racing New Zealand\u2019s] current euthanasia policy will no longer be an effective deterrent to the unnecessary destruction of greyhounds.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why this legislation is so important and we commend it to the House. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022 data-id=\u00221fdf4f4bd4594f0b898d73e7da15127e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221fdf4f4bd4594f0b898d73e7da15127e\u0022\u003ELAURA McCLURE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019ll also keep my contribution very short, because we support this bill. Greyhounds, as many people have said, are lovely, wonderful pets. This is a bit of a pledge out there for those homes that are looking for a furry friend: they\u2019re low-shedding and apparently quite lazy\u2014but my colleague over here said not so much sometimes, so, hopefully, you\u2019ve got a little bit of space somewhere for them to run around. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1e491e3b6d74a4bb66b792ffef0549c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1e491e3b6d74a4bb66b792ffef0549c\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I just think it\u2019s important, at this stage, to outline the explanatory note as to what this bill creates. It\u2019s creating \u201Ca new offence of intentionally destroying a greyhound that is or was registered with [Greyhound Racing New Zealand] or the offspring of a breeding female that is registered with [Greyhound Racing New Zealand]. A person who commits the offence will be liable in terms of imprisonment not exceeding 12 months or a fine not exceeding $50,000, or both\u201D\u2014unless, and there are provisions within this legislation, it\u2019s by a vet for a very specific reason as per Greyhound Racing New Zealand\u2019s euthanasia policy. Those are the consequences for those that dabble with this law. I commend this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022 data-id=\u0022899705a11a1944b7945c11bc15070d4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022899705a11a1944b7945c11bc15070d4d\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora e te P\u012Bka. K\u0101ore he k\u014Drero i tua atu i te tautoko i t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire\u2014there\u2019s nothing that we are adding to the contribution that we\u2019ve already made, other than we support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022 data-id=\u002286682d8aa4564d378893b4f0bf0c7a0a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286682d8aa4564d378893b4f0bf0c7a0a\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to make the point that although we are rushing through this legislation, it is to safeguard the welfare of animals and not because we inherently believe that all greyhound owners are bad people. Of course, there are a large number that will be wanting to look after their animals, but we want to ensure that every animal has the highest welfare standards. There is the provision, as Mr Brewer outlined, for euthanasia where it is done by a vet within the specific guidelines. This is an important step to take, it\u2019s considered, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8af5268b12f445082f389cc386e8a8d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8af5268b12f445082f389cc386e8a8d\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to take a call on the Racing Industry (Unlawful Destruction of Specified Greyhounds) Amendment Bill. I would like to agree with my colleague to the left here. It\u2019s really fantastic to see this bill come to the House, but, I don\u2019t feel like I\u2019d necessarily be adding anything to the conversation that hasn\u2019t already been said by previous speakers. I think, in kind of potential preparation for us getting into Government in a couple of years\u2019 time and seeing how short some of the Government MPs\u2019 calls tend to be when it\u2019s a Government bill, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u00223b0ed0cd402642d784e125df9296af7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b0ed0cd402642d784e125df9296af7d\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you very much. I\u2019ll just take the opportunity to say a few words on a bill that has been a long time coming. As a former Minister for Racing, I want to acknowledge the current Minister, who\u2019s taking this bill through\u2014one of two bills, I understand. This is to protect, I guess, the welfare of sentient animals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThese animals involved in the greyhound industry and the racing, the greyhounds themselves, have been bred to race with good intent by owners and people who have been part of an industry that has quite a history. We have to acknowledge them; they\u2019ve worked within the law. But they\u2019ve seen this coming, and the social licence to continue, I think, has been pushing up against it for a number of reasons\u2014the injuries in particular. While there have been trials\u2014and I, as Minister, visited the greyhound tracks and saw some of the, I guess, challenges that have been there\u2014ultimately, the call to close this down is quite a tough one; it\u2019s the right one. I acknowledge the Minister. We\u2019ve just got to make sure that we, in this bill, deal with the sentient animals who want to race, who like to race, and now won\u2019t be able to, so we\u2019ve got to make sure that they have a good life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EFor those people involved in the industry, we also have to acknowledge that they\u2019ve committed themselves, their livelihoods, their incomes, taking a chance\u2014the racing industry is not an easy one to be involved in, but it\u2019s been part of our heritage. It\u2019s been part of the communities around New Zealand\u2014less so greyhound. There is a lesson in here for the horse racing industry: to make sure that we do everything we can to look after the animals and give them a good life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ETo finish off, I acknowledge the decision by this Government to do the right thing, and we in Opposition will support that. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8f7db57526949c3bcbbac23405c9ae6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8f7db57526949c3bcbbac23405c9ae6\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. A couple of points I just want to raise in this second reading: firstly, New Zealand is one of only five countries in the world that still permit commercial greyhound racing. This bill specifically does focus on the unlawful destruction of specified greyhounds, but also, as we go through that transitional period, a ministerial advisory group has been established, chaired by Heather Simpson, which will oversee that transition process. Today, we\u2019re focused specifically on the unlawful destruction of specified greyhounds, and as I just said previously, it\u2019s a great day for greyhounds. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u002223a57f558ba84cb6bc1afbb4c14d3c57\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223a57f558ba84cb6bc1afbb4c14d3c57\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I too stand in support of this bill and want to acknowledge the Minister for Racing and the work he has done to lead such support across the House on something so important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI make the point that I, for one, have been, in the past, along to watch dog racing. For those of you who know T\u0101maki-makau-rau well, you\u2019ll know where Manukau is and you\u2019ll know where the dog racing track was. It was quite the place to be in T\u0101maki-makau-rau. Interestingly enough, now it plays host\u2014and has done for a number of years\u2014to the Polyfest. Now I think it\u2019s a good move as we look towards the future, if you will, of those kinds of places whereby our tamariki are now standing up in those places and representing all of us into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge, though, that, for many, they have invested their lives into this particular sector and into this particular area. I acknowledge the Minister in his work about having a runway, if you will, to make sure that we can do this and remain vigilant on these matters as we give them the time frame that\u2019s been afforded with this particular bill. I\u2019ll leave my contribution there and say that we support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022 data-id=\u0022e064dc4d75bc41c9b49a4695f774e04e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e064dc4d75bc41c9b49a4695f774e04e\u0022\u003EMILES ANDERSON (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a tough decision to make for so many people who are going to be impacted by the banning of greyhound racing in New Zealand, particularly those who\u2019ve done a really good job of looking after the animals. It\u2019s not easy doing the right thing, I suppose, sometimes. That is that there are too many animals injured, too many animals that needed to be euthanised, and a number of\u2014a small number, I might add\u2014contributors to the industry that weren\u2019t doing their part. I do want to acknowledge those that have contributed to the industry in a positive way over many years and the stress and the unknown future in front of them. With that, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u00225e9d190eae3645ec841453491f2f4e66\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e9d190eae3645ec841453491f2f4e66\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I just wanted to make a short contribution and just correct something I said in my first reading speech. I mentioned the petitioner who has taken a number of petitions to ban greyhound racing, but I said \u201CSteve Cross\u201D, who\u2019s a well-known agitator in Nelson who stands up for fairness. I meant to say \u201CAaron Cross\u201D, who is also an agitator and stands up for fairness, but this time for dogs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ECan I just acknowledge all of the work that Aaron has done over many, many years to continue to bring petitions to Parliament. I know it has at times been a tense conversation between himself and other organisations, and can I just acknowledge everyone who has been involved to date in this process to continue to put the welfare of dogs first. This is an excellent bill, as many of us have already spoken about, because it will ensure that the welfare of dogs is upheld as we then go through the transition process as we ban and end greyhound racing in New Zealand. Today is a great day. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022 data-id=\u00224fa29a9005394acd8e60b91c35f90746\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224fa29a9005394acd8e60b91c35f90746\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. As a sheep and beef farmer, my life\u2019s always involved dogs, whether they\u2019re huntaways, heading dogs, or the odd ankle-biter. they\u2019ve been an integral part of my life, and they still are. Not only are our four-legged friends great workers, they\u2019re also great mates and loyal, and I\u2019d urge New Zealanders to think about rehoming dogs from the industry as the transition occurs because they could become integral in their lives as my dogs have become in my family\u2019s. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002291142855d7844ba7ba96598e0c124deb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291142855d7844ba7ba96598e0c124deb\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u0027Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The bill is set down for committee stage immediately. I declare the House in committee for consideration of the Racing Industry (Unlawful Destruction of Specified Greyhounds) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022115181b4448d40438703e37ed6da4a49\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a65c36a24cb24b58a93f21e4ef0767f4\u0022\u003EClause 1  Title\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002235387a138ff9439095b570f3a4b461da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235387a138ff9439095b570f3a4b461da\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Racing Industry (Unlawful Destruction of Specified Greyhounds) Amendment Bill. We start with clause 1. The question is that clause 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f0aa6c8ef99b4cecbd990b9331c6e356\u0022\u003EClauses 2 to 4\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00223d2b62f53aa442cba518ec7f4c59fb0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d2b62f53aa442cba518ec7f4c59fb0c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: We will now come to clause 2. The question is that clause 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea5cda2a90a74eb1bdc667302b16ace7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea5cda2a90a74eb1bdc667302b16ace7\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Chief Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. I seek leave for all provisions to be taken as one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d14489acf7be492a8aa720df499a2235\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought for that purpose. Are there any objections? There are no objections. The question is that clauses 2 to 4 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022b559d7c868a5419a895a288c7f44cf44\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b559d7c868a5419a895a288c7f44cf44\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ve only got a couple of questions for the Minister. In looking at clause 4, which inserts the new Subpart 5, in new section 53A(1), it basically identifies \u201CA person (other than a veterinarian or a veterinary student). Further down, in new subsection (2), there is a reference to \u201Ca veterinarian\u201D as well but not the veterinary student. I was just wanting a comment on the consistency or otherwise of the term. Is it that the primacy of it sits with the veterinarian, so, basically, this student is not surplus but that\u2019s covered?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe other question was around the penalty provision of \u201Cnot exceeding 12 months or a fine not exceeding $50,000, or both.\u201D, and whether that\u2019s consistent with other offences\u2014I know it\u2019s within the section, but where that kind of sits in the wider scheme of things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe final question from me was just the role, if any, of the ministerial advisory committee in any of this work, or is that only sort of related to the additional piece of legislation that will come next year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed4cec980ba2432f9dcdedbefb96ab47\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed4cec980ba2432f9dcdedbefb96ab47\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister for Racing):\u003C/span\u003E Perhaps I could answer those three questions. The first one is as to the class of person that can be responsible for euthanising the animal. Well, clearly in the veterinary practices, the vet is able to assign qualified people within his organisation\u2014not necessarily veterinarians but oversight is still his or hers, and that\u2019s how the job\u2019s done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe second question that you asked was whether the level of offence was about where it should be. Now, I don\u2019t know how you\u2019d liken other offences, but a year in prison, or $50,000, is a pretty stiff fine and enough to be a serious consideration if someone\u2019s thinking about offending. As to where it fits into the criminological code, well, who knows\u2014it depends who you\u2019re talking to and which side of the House you\u2019re on on this matter, so I don\u2019t want to go there at this time of bipartisan approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe last one: yes, those three people on that committee, including one who\u2019s a veterinarian, I think that those people will be having oversight as we go through, and that\u2019s why such a senior, respected group has been chosen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u00225da2e90d99e04a3283e9508c8a448beb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225da2e90d99e04a3283e9508c8a448beb\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m talking about the commencement time. My understanding is that it is possible in exceptional circumstances for a bill to come into effect at the time of it passing\u2014at the time of Royal assent rather than a day after Royal assent. I wonder if the Minister for Racing is comfortable that the day after Royal assent is sufficiently rapid for the purpose that we\u2019re trying to achieve here, which is to get legislation on the books as quickly as possible, or whether the Minister might be open to considering an amendment to bring the Act into force at the time of Royal assent, acknowledging that that should be a thing\u2014if it was an amendment put up, and I\u2019d be happy to put that amendment forward, that that would be something we would want the full support of the committee for also, we have for the rest of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022cdf885fe9ea44fc7bbfe08fe7b43d306\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cdf885fe9ea44fc7bbfe08fe7b43d306\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister for Racing):\u003C/span\u003E There is only one slight complication: the Governor-General is on the Chatham Islands\u2014right?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022553418d227884496b333935237af81fd\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s still New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a194046850eb43288e86bb788c1353f0\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Just our luck! I know it\u2019s still New Zealand, even though over there they refer to \u201Cgoing to New Zealand\u201D. We\u2019re constrained by that, but we\u2019ve set the date and the date starts when this bill passes its third reading today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u002203f651d2b1a64528ae2b05e26cf217eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203f651d2b1a64528ae2b05e26cf217eb\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EClauses 2 to 4 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EBill to be reported without amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00225210b923bc5244bab9706fd7e0c0903a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225210b923bc5244bab9706fd7e0c0903a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, the committee has considered the Racing Industry (Unlawful Destruction of Specified Greyhounds) Amendment Bill and reports it without amendment. I move, That the report be adopted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EReport adopted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022025855fcca4740fe81a67a4d0d2f13c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022025855fcca4740fe81a67a4d0d2f13c4\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is set down for third reading immediately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ec7607067eb74853ba43a10cce8649a4\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00222e3bee8ff7224de79ce7a6d598915467\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e3bee8ff7224de79ce7a6d598915467\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister for Racing):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Racing Industry (Unlawful Destruction of Specified Greyhounds) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EAs has been canvassed today, this bill is one of two to close the industry by August 2026. This bill is concerned with protecting greyhounds through the closure process, and it has been very difficult for the members here to come to this decision because there are many in the industry that they know and many in the industry whom they regard as responsible. Members across the House are thankful for their recognition of ministerial urgency to progress this bill to its third reading today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EA second bill will come next year and it will be concerned with the remaining operational aspects of closure. Greyhound racing participants and animal welfare stakeholders are encouraged to submit on the second bill at the select committee process. At the appropriate time, suggestions on how to best phase out the industry will be seriously considered and concerns listened to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EAs the industry heads towards closure, participants will be leading at their own pace, and it\u2019s expected that while some licensed persons will choose to keep their dogs as pets, many, if not most, of the nearly 3,000 greyhounds in the industry will be put up for adoption throughout this period. For those dogs that will be rehomed, the advisory committee will be working alongside key rehoming organisations such as the SPCA to transition the dogs out of the industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EIn 2006, when previously the Minister for Racing, I launched the first Greyhounds as Pets adoption scheme, and that was 18 years ago. Because these dogs make great pets and deserve to have a good life beyond the track, those watching and listening today should consider adopting a greyhound. Ultimately, this bill being passed by the House today aims to ensure dogs are not needlessly destroyed, giving them the best chance at a successful rehoming and a happy life post-racing. It\u2019s the right thing to do, and I want to thank members from all sides of the House, in often a very, very difficult political climate, for understanding that it\u2019s Christmas and doing the right thing altogether might be just a good idea. Thank you very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u002259adb4d6582149538cbc30a213b90976\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259adb4d6582149538cbc30a213b90976\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Mr Speaker. The  Minister is right: it is the right thing to do, and that\u2019s why we on this side of the House have supported the bill through all stages today. As was indicated earlier, this is a vital and a core step in ensuring that there is an ongoing level of humane treatment for greyhounds moving forward, but also that really important issue of animal welfare that Rachel Boyack has touched on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThere have been numerous reports over the years that sought to try and paint a picture around what some of the issues were for the industry and what needed to happen to mitigate some of those risks and concerns moving forward. It is unfortunate that the social licence no longer is in a position to be given to the greyhound industry because of the concerns that have now eventuated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI want to thank the Minister for his brief time in committee stage identifying a few things. I do think that the 12-month imprisonment period or a $50,000 fine is a significant deterrent. Obviously, we would expect that those who wish to trifle with this piece of legislation would be made aware that that is a significant impost upon their liberty or their financial capacity, and it should serve as a deterrent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EIn the last week, the Racing Integrity Board have issued a decision that relates to a participant within this industry. Just reflecting on the written decision that has been issued by the racing integrity board, it talks about the fact that, in this particular case, there was a failure to meet requirements around verification of rehoming of greyhounds within the sector. It talks about the sense of uncertainty as to what ultimately happened to the dogs in question. It talks about the challenges to welfare rules and compliance which are fundamental to the integrity of the system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis is exactly what this piece of legislation and the one that will follow next year is all about. It\u2019s about integrity in the system, it\u2019s about protecting animals, but it\u2019s also about ensuring that we continue to uphold our status around the world as someone who values integrity in all sports codes and what that might mean. As Labour\u2019s racing spokesperson, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022cbd3f5f213c24504b4e75525d535ed48\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cbd3f5f213c24504b4e75525d535ed48\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022adc23e5faeb24338b60bf9fbf270b054\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022adc23e5faeb24338b60bf9fbf270b054\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister for Racing):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Could I make a correction of something I said at the committee stage, as I need to do it right now if I can. I said that the Governor-General was in the Chatham Islands and therefore couldn\u2019t sign the document today. Her flight got cancelled, so she can sign the document. Ha, ha! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022994fa38482ca4472b1cada287e22ce08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022994fa38482ca4472b1cada287e22ce08\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that clarification. The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022577f6b5ca6a04bf28cc8d9b05a2675c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022577f6b5ca6a04bf28cc8d9b05a2675c9\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. New Zealanders do value animal welfare, and New Zealanders do not want to see animals suffer unduly. They do not want to see them injured in the cause of sports or in the cause of animal production or in any instance unnecessarily. Surveys on the specific support for greyhound racing show that there is a very low level of support. One in 10 New Zealanders does not support a continuation of greyhound racing. This is an industry that has lost its social licence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EI do want to reiterate that we as the Green Party advocate strongly for the highest animal welfare expectations of our society, but in no way are we suggesting that there are not many members of that industry who do not also love and care for their dogs and want to ensure their welfare. That is something it is important to acknowledge, and I just want to lean into those of you in the greyhound industry today and call on your better instincts and your good instincts for protecting the welfare of your animals. I am sure that 90 or 99 percent of people in the industry will be doing that, but this legislation is to protect from that small percentage who may not be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge those organisations who have advocated so long and hard for the protection of greyhounds\u2014Save Animals from Exploitation, Helping You Help Animals, Veterinarians for Animal Welfare Aotearoa, Dogwatch, and the SPCA\u2014and I want to acknowledge the efforts of my colleague Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, who first put the ban on greyhound racing bill into the ballot in 2022 and made appeals to the then Minister, Grant Robertson, to act on the reports that were coming in showing that the industry was inherently dangerous. I was very happy to take that bill on board when I became a member of Parliament last year and to have kept it in the ballot since then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThis is a very good day for the welfare of animals, and I would call on the Government to consider that what underlies that loss of social licence in this industry is a fundamental New Zealand value that animals should not suffer unnecessarily, and in other matters of legislation that will come before this House, we will be calling that principle out and highlighting it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EIn terms of the rapidity of the passing of this bill through the House, for those of you watching to understand, this is because we are lined up in unanimous support for the principle of bringing an end to this industry, and for looking after the welfare of the animals. This legislation makes sure that they cannot be euthanised unnecessarily. We commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022 data-id=\u00221750b9ae147d4894bd905cd2a66b700f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221750b9ae147d4894bd905cd2a66b700f\u0022\u003ELAURA McCLURE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I won\u2019t leave this too much longer, but I do want to actually acknowledge the industry, and, like other speakers have said, most of them have done quite a lot of work in the space around animal welfare, and this will be a really tough day for them. Once again, go out and rehome a greyhound. I think it\u2019s a great thing to do. I commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022bcdd3112586143a89739ce813360df9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bcdd3112586143a89739ce813360df9f\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Again, the National Party is very strongly in favour of this legislation now that we got to its third reading. For those that may have just tuned in or flicked on Parliament TV, and looking at the Minister for Racing, the Rt Hon Winston Peters\u2019, legislative statement, again, this legislation is required as a preventative measure following the announcement of the Government\u2019s decision to close commercial greyhound racing in New Zealand in principle decision from 1 August 2026\u201420 months away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EFollowing this announcement, it has been well canvassed that there will be a heightened risk of some otherwise healthy dogs being destroyed for economic reasons. Thanks to this bill, anyone that breaks the law will face the consequences. As has been already put, the penalties are large and, in most cases, the only person that will be able to euthanise a registered dog will be a vet for very specific reasons under very strict guidelines.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EAgain, as my good colleague Tom Rutherford, MP for Bay of Plenty, has said, this is a great day for greyhounds. We are protecting those greyhounds. It\u2019s great that this will be passed for Royal assent. Given that the Governor-General is ensconced at Government House in Wellington, thanks to a cancelled flight, this will take effect almost immediately. That is great news for the 2,900 greyhound dogs that will be protected as this wind down for the next 20 months of this industry continues. I commend this third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5eec285845e44d9a14ae473d6b2153f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5eec285845e44d9a14ae473d6b2153f\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora e te P\u012Bka. E \u0101piti ana m\u0101tou i te tautoko o t\u0113nei pire, rawe te kite atu i te kaha tautoko o ng\u0101 p\u0101ti katoa i t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire, hakoa ng\u0101 p\u0113hitanga nui o te ao t\u014Drangap\u016B i t\u0113nei w\u0101. e h\u0101koakoa ana au ki te kite e kaha tautoko ana ng\u0101 p\u0101ti katoa i t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 horopaki. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E[We would like to add our support of this bill. It is amazing to see the huge support from all parties on this bill, despite the pressures brought upon by politics at this time. I am delighted to see the immense support by all parties on this bill.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EAgain, we\u2019d just like to reiterate our support for this bill. I acknowledge the Deputy Prime Minister and all parties that have supported this bill, to enact the significance and importance of this bill as soon as possible. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022 data-id=\u00227bd9b4b5859549de98e860b43b32a770\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bd9b4b5859549de98e860b43b32a770\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. Thinking about this bill, I\u2019m also reminded of some good friends of mine\u2014Marc and Inge\u2014who have a lovely rescue greyhound called Lily. Lily is one of those dogs that you really do become attached to, even though greyhounds have a very small brain. But they are also quite endearing, and I am reminded of Lily, who at one of our book club meetings bumped her foot just on a bit of furniture, and the screech that she put out meant everyone leapt out of their chairs thinking that this dog had come to some great damage, and it was a bump.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EThis dog is a great companion, has retired from racing, and provides a real support to our friends. She likes to go for walks but not too, too far and she\u2019ll chase things occasionally, and I particularly like it when she comes to book club. What I\u2019m really, really pleased about with this bill that needs to pass today is that it offers an opportunity for others to rehome a greyhound, to look after a greyhound, and have something that might not be very bright but is very endearing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e417ec8849f40aeb5654a0e37c26106\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s rather unbecoming, Scott.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256353435451c4ee9a413c6128bb3b280\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, come on\u2014come on. We\u2019ve got to be frank about this. They\u2019re not the most intelligent of animals, but they\u2019re also very endearing. I think this bill is really about the welfare of dogs, of animals, to make sure that they can be looked after and to do the right thing by them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t think we need to spend a great deal of time on this. This is a very commendable bill and it is fantastic to see such support across the House. I would wish that we could do more of this and have more support generally for positive bills across the House. With that, I would like to commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022 data-id=\u00220d85293551a347acb0612e960b63bd08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d85293551a347acb0612e960b63bd08\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m not going to besmirch the intelligence of these animals; this is about the welfare of them. Look, I want to acknowledge that the next\u00A020 months will be a difficult time for many in the greyhound racing industry as we phase it out. However, that does not mean it should be a difficult time for the animals that have been\u00A0involved\u2014that\u2019s what this bill does. It is about protecting their welfare, having clear standards in place to protect them from unwanted or unnecessary euthanising or destruction. That\u2019s why this bill puts in place a 12-month prison term or a $50,000 fine, or both, for anyone found to be doing that. There is a provision that vets on medical grounds can still\u00A0euthanise animals, but there are clear guidelines for that, which I think strikes an appropriate balance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EThose watching at home might be asking, \u201CWell, what can we do? We want to help with this situation.\u201D One easy option is to rehome one of these beautiful dogs. Good friends of mine have done this. I want to give a mention to Meredith Marsone, a great artist from Foxton\u2014in fact, her art has been hanging in the Beehive foyer for the last few months. Her and her husband, Grimmy, have rehomed them and have found it to be a great thing. That\u2019s something that we can all do. For the House today, of course, it\u2019s about putting this legislation through. In the spirit of Santa\u2019s Little Helper, we all have a part that we can play. For me, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00221cfe3a7898504b779135e71db07670d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221cfe3a7898504b779135e71db07670d9\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a privilege to speak on this bill, which is one of two, as the Minister for Racing has said, to close the greyhound racing industry by August 2026.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIn this call, I would like to acknowledge the advocacy of South Aucklanders who have long been opposed to greyhound racing at New Zealand\u2019s only stand-alone greyhound racing track, which is the Manukau Sports Bowl. It\u2019s worth acknowledging the long history that the industry has in South Auckland, which began in 1987 with the construction of both the velodrome and the greyhound racing track alongside each other. Those facilities were made in preparation for the 1987 Commonwealth Games, and in 1989 became the Manukau City Council\u2019s property\u2014it had paid for a quarter of that for those two facilities to be designed, and it was a public facility that had long attracted advocacy not only around the use of that space but also for the industry that was greyhound racing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s right for us to be able to have some time in the House to acknowledge the importance of this bill, which is about the protection of the greyhounds which exist within the industry. It\u2019s also right to acknowledge how this has come to be and the kind of support out there that our many and diverse communities have for taking this step. This is something which is really important to a huge number of working South Auckland families in Manukau who live around the Manukau Sports Bowl. It\u2019s worth just setting out for the House what this will mean, because the lease for the greyhound club came to an end at the end of last year. It was part of the transformation of Manukau plan\u2014longer than the works by not only the Auckland Council but the legacy council before that Manukau City Council, about how the people within the boundaries of Manukau City wanted that space to look.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EYou might have been to the Manukau Sports Bowl, Mr Speaker, and never realised, because it is the venue for Pasifika\u2014it\u2019s also a venue for the new Manukau AFC club for football; it\u2019s long been a club for rugby; it\u2019s a place where high school athletics and competitive athletics is held\u2014but it has always been burdened by the fact that a large part of it has been, effectively, privatised by use by the greyhound club there. To be able, today, to see not only the end to the industry of greyhound racing throughout New Zealand but also\u00A0the\u00A0end of the industry\u2019s use of that public space that South Aucklanders want to be using for athletics, they want to be using for concerts, they want to be using for clubs and sports, to be able to get the maximum use out of what is a public facility, is really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThere are a number of people who have been strong voices in this debate who I want to acknowledge today, in leading to this outcome that the Government has been able to take. The chair of \u014Ctara-Papatoetoe Local Board, Apulu Reece Autagavaia, has long been an advocate in his community, not only in the South Auckland community and Papatoetoe but also in the Samoan community, as a voice for change, as a voice for humanity towards the dogs who have been involved in an industry which he felt had long outrun its social licence and had become exploitative. I want to acknowledge councillor Lotu Fuli, who was also a strong voice within the community about using that space as one where young Pacific people, young M\u0101ori people, young South Aucklanders could see themselves represented and enjoy a community facility that should always have been theirs to enjoy, as something which they could practise sports in, go for a run, and use at high school events.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESince it was built as a Commonwealth Games facility, the Manukau Sports Bowl has passed through the ownership of not only the Manukau City Council, which contributed that quarter of the cost of building it\u2014which at the time was $4 million, a significant investment in the late 1980s\u2014through to now a mixture of Auckland Council ownership and those trusts which continue on sports in South Auckland. It\u2019s a great day for them, because the closure of this industry gives a real sense of clarity around what the future use of that facility can now be, which is hugely important to the future of Manukau. The Manukau Sports Bowl is an absolute anchor stone for not only tourism but cultural events in South Auckland. It\u2019s somewhere that is crying out for more use, and this is a real opportunity for South Aucklanders and the South Auckland region to benefit from further investment in and further public use of what is a great facility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI\u2019m happy to commend this bill. I\u2019m happy to acknowledge those South Aucklanders who have worked hard to really raise this issue up, not only in our local politics at the Auckland level but also at the national level, as a working people\u2019s issue, as South Auckland working people coming out and saying, \u201CWe want to be able to use these spaces and see ourselves represented in this public space which should be ours.\u201D Also, I want to acknowledge a long history of advocacy from members around this House to end this practice in New Zealand, and I commend it now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022c5d1907911f7478389559c31e0d1ea5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c5d1907911f7478389559c31e0d1ea5f\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I\u2019ve made a quick call to the boss of the Rutherford household to see if we could adopt one of those 2,900 greyhounds that\u2019ll be looking for a home\u2014that\u2019s a work in progress. I may wear the pants in that household, but she tells me which ones to wear! We\u2019ll be working on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EOne thing that is for certain: today is a great day for greyhounds\u2014it\u2019s a great day for greyhounds. Having that ministerial advisory committee that I spoke about in the second reading is really going to help with the transition that we\u2019ve seen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EAs many speakers have also mentioned, it\u2019s a difficult day for those that work in that particular sector, and those greyhounds that we\u2019re talking about, as well. Ensuring that we\u2019ve got good transitional planning, that we\u2019ve got the necessary services and support there for them and the greyhounds, is really, really important too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EThis, as I\u2019ve said throughout, is really great day for greyhounds; we\u2019re going to be protecting them; we\u2019re going to be looking after them here in New Zealand. I\u2019m really proud to be in support of this legislation. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022 data-id=\u00226694a0ee67e9428ead8437d31c614ac8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226694a0ee67e9428ead8437d31c614ac8\u0022\u003EHon JO LUXTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a real pleasure to stand up and take a call on this piece of legislation. I want to acknowledge the Minister who\u2019s brought it to the House, and I want to acknowledge the members of this House who\u2019ve come together to pass this\u2014from what I can understand, is going to be unanimously. When I was the Associate Minister for Agriculture with responsibility for animal welfare, greyhound racing and the welfare of the dogs was one of the things I heard most about\u2014probably quite likely from some of those South Aucklanders that my colleague referred to earlier. I\u2019m not going to hold this process up any longer. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022 data-id=\u00227a5cfe3aafab4598b60cebc1083c1ddd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a5cfe3aafab4598b60cebc1083c1ddd\u0022\u003EMILES ANDERSON (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This is, as has been mentioned by many people in the House, quite an historic day. It is certainly something that is nice to be part of with a unanimous decision around the House. I\u2019d also like to do a callout to those that are involved in the industry who are facing some difficult times over the next 20 months, and I encourage not only their communities but the country to wrap around them and help them out by adopting a dog. With that, I\u2019d like to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u002206b5ba9e6f2b4a91a7ed872b02ef7587\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206b5ba9e6f2b4a91a7ed872b02ef7587\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is a pleasure to take a final call on this important piece of legislation in this third reading. Just noting a number of colleagues from across the House have, I hope, put their hands up to adopt a greyhound. I am going to suggest to my old friend Tim Costley that he has three daughters, so he could take three. I\u2019m sure that those of us who are sitting on the Governance and Administration Committee, when the second bill comes through\u2014hopefully to us\u2014I\u2019m sure that throughout that time, we will do our bit to try to promote the adoption of greyhounds across New Zealand, because there are around 3,000 dogs that are going to need rehoming. We will need a number of people in New Zealand to step up and adopt one of these remarkable animals\u2014they are very smart\u2014and take them on as a family pet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI said in an earlier contribution I wanted to make a few remarks about the select committee report into the petition of Aaron Cross that we\u2014our committee, the Petitions Committee\u2014reported to the House around two years ago in November 2022. One of the things that was common about that report and today\u2019s debate was that there was a unanimous view across the committee about the social licence that the greyhound industry was losing and that a number of steps needed to be taken if the industry was to continue. I just wanted to point out a few things, particularly from an animal welfare perspective, that came up in that report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve already mentioned today about straight tracks, that one of the biggest causes of an injury to a dog is when they\u2019re turning around the corners on an oval track. Despite the Hansen report in 2017 stating that there needed to be straight tracks, when we presented to the House in 2022\u2014five years later\u2014there were still no straight tracks. Now, the industry has put one straight track on trial in Whanganui, but, in my view, that\u2019s not enough. It\u2019s now seven years since that report in 2017. The industry should have moved by now to having all of those tracks being straight tracks in order to reduce injuries to dogs, and they haven\u2019t done so, and we haven\u2019t seen enough pace in terms of the changes needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EAnother comment we made in our report was about the focus of the industry on reducing greyhound deaths. While that was a good thing, we didn\u2019t see a similar reduction in injuries or focus on reduction in injuries to the dogs. Ultimately, even if they weren\u2019t killed while racing, a lot of those dogs did end up having a shorter life and were unable to enter the rehoming programme. We have, I acknowledge, started to see some change there, but, again, it has not been enough change and it has not been fast enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI just wanted to talk a little bit about rehoming. At that stage around two years ago, we couldn\u2019t see a long-term plan for rehoming dogs, and so the dogs do get to the end of their racing life. We have a number of organisations, like Greyhounds as Pets, that do a great job working to rehome greyhounds, but we weren\u2019t seeing enough movement there. Over the next 20 months, there\u2019s going to have to be a big piece of work\u2014and I know that the Minister has already commented on this\u2014between Government, industry, and animal welfare organisations to rehome a large number of dogs. I do want to acknowledge the SPCA and Save Animals from Exploitation and Helping You Help Animals have already this year put their hands up to assist with that, but we\u2019re going to need a lot more than that. This is going to be a huge effort.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EWhen I met with industry earlier this year, alongside my colleague Tangi Utikere, one of the things we did talk to industry about was rehoming dogs into other countries. I\u2019m actually quite open to that, but I would want to see the animal welfare standards of dogs being taken by aeroplane and knowing that they were going to go into a safe home overseas. There is actually quite a large demand for greyhounds as pets. I think we\u2019re going to need to look at all of those options. We need to make sure they\u2019re safe options, but those are the kinds of things we\u2019re going to need to look at over the next few months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EWhat I will say is the Government has Labour\u2019s full support in that process. It is going to take a lot of work, and so it\u2019s not straightforward to just implement a ban tomorrow. We need to actually go through a transition process like we did with live cattle export\u2014maybe Government could change their position on that too. We actually need to go through a transition process to ensure that the dogs\u2019 wellbeing is upheld.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EOne of the other things we noted during that report was just a lack of good data. There has been, again, attempts to improve the data in terms of injuries, in terms of tracking dogs, for a process, but again, just not enough progress to ensure that this industry can continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThe last thing I wanted to note from that report was we have had a lot of operators in this industry who have been good operators\u2014and I do want to acknowledge them; it\u2019s going to be a very tough day for them. A lot of these operators love their dogs and care for their dogs, but we have had some very bad actors\u2014a small number\u2014and they bring the rest of the industry into disrepute. One of the things we saw was methamphetamine was found to be present in the dogs. It was called an accident by the industry when they came to select committee. I\u2019ve reiterated that to industry again: that they actually should have said at the time, \u201CNo, that occurred and it wasn\u2019t good enough and we\u2019re taking steps around that.\u201D Instead, it was minimised and the select committee at the time was not impressed with how it was dealt with by industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI do want to acknowledge, again, Edward Rennell. I do believe he has had good intent here and I enjoyed talking with him. I know that he has tried to improve things\u2014but, again, it\u2019s just not enough. This industry has lost its social licence to operate, and so it\u2019s going to be good to be able to scrutinise the second bill that the Government introduces to our committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EToday\u2019s bill is a very important bill to ensure that we don\u2019t have any unintended consequences. It\u2019s really important that there is a strong deterrent so that anyone who might be tempted to take matters into their own hands and harm their dogs gets a very strong message from this Parliament today that we are unanimous that that must not happen and if it does happen you will be punished.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EToday is a great day for greyhounds. A lot of people have done a lot of work\u2014Government, officials, animal welfare organisations\u2014and I want to acknowledge everybody who has done that work, especially today the Minister. Thank you for taking this important step. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022 data-id=\u002234afeccbe14a433a872c340fe4231c8d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234afeccbe14a433a872c340fe4231c8d\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would again just acknowledge the impact on all of those in the industry. Today will be a very tough day, despite what\u2019s been inevitable over a period of time. I would also acknowledge those that are involved currently in the sector of the rehoming of the greyhounds. I would just thank them for the work that they currently do, and I\u2019ve heard very recently\u2014yesterday, in actual fact\u2014of the successes that they\u2019ve had. I want to thank you for all the work that\u2019s ahead of you and for others as we have a transition out of the industry occur. I would again encourage all Kiwis to participate in the rehoming of the dogs involved. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a99b2b0b5ea64e5281c9bf0af51185c8\u0022\u003ERacing Industry Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227f7ae726193543269e4a133951dba027\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022cdf3b57e3931439193aa869e1686a710\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cdf3b57e3931439193aa869e1686a710\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister for Racing):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Racing Industry Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279a2d2e8fc6944b79b2f217a199587ac\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f979bd9594634f9790b61d2af8b507f7\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Racing Industry Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Governance and Administration Committee to consider the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EIn this environment of cooperation, let\u2019s press on and get as much as can be done as fast as we can, bearing in mind that the industry that I inherited is what I\u2019m trying to fix up. I\u2019m not making any complaint about it, but this is what I did. We had Entain there, which I inherited, and you\u2019ve got to make the most of it now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThis Government moves that the committee consider the bill for a period of 19 weeks and report it back to the House on 30 April 2025, and that the committee have the authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting, except during oral questions, during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, despite Standing Orders 193 and 196(1)(b) and (c). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThis Government is pleased to introduce an amendment to the Racing Industry Act 2020 that will protect the long-term financial sustainability of New Zealand\u2019s racing industry. The Act established TAB New Zealand and sets out legislative purposes, including to provide funding to the racing industry on which its products depend. As part of this revenue purpose, the Act sets out TAB NZ as the only authorised land-based sports and race betting operator, and today TAB NZ continues to provide over 90 percent of the three racing codes\u2019 revenue\u2014now two racing codes, very shortly after 1 October 2026. The Act also provides for revenue gathering from international providers of wagering who offer odds to New Zealand punters and on New Zealand events. These offshore charges were designed to offset the revenue lost to betting operators who do not otherwise pay profits to the sporting and the racing industries of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe scale of offshore operations has grown since the last time I held the racing portfolio and brought the Racing Industry Act to this House. Despite entering into a partnership with a global betting operator as part of the efforts to develop a competitive edge, the tide of money from New Zealand punters has steadily turned. Offshore operators are consolidating a significant market share of New Zealand betting, and the revenue which\u00A0New Zealand\u2019s racing industry relies on is certainly not guaranteed. This Government is introducing legislation today that will stem that tide. Once enforced, it will prohibit any operator other than TAB NZ from offering sports and race betting to a person in New Zealand. In effect, this Government is extending the existing sole authority of TAB NZ to include online wagering. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThis Government is not just betting on the success of the racing industry; this Government is in the pole position and creating the odds for success. To use racing phraseology. \u201CSuccess for who?\u201D, you might ask. As this Minister says, it\u2019s for all who are willing to place a bet. While this bill seeks to persuade the tides, it does, effectively, reduce the market to one sports and race betting operator, and this Government knows that Kiwi punters want a desirable Kiwi-run option that puts New Zealand and its economy first. The bill introduces regulation-making powers that will allow us to set the conditions on which TAB New Zealand may exclude or limit Kiwi punters, ensuring that New Zealand\u2019s eager punters have a reliable and trustworthy operator to stake their bets with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThis bill secures more than one good success\u2014a real daily double, one might even say. TAB NZ\u2014I get it; somebody who\u2019s got a sense of humour wrote this. TAB NZ\u2019s agreement with Entain includes a one-time payment of $100 million if TAB New Zealand\u2019s monopoly is expanded to online wagering in New Zealand. This bill secures that payment for TAB NZ and, by extension, the racing industry. This prohibition is a very good thing for the racing industry and for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe Act provides for revenue recovery from bets placed by people in New Zealand with providers other than TAB NZ. This point of consumption charge is known as the \u201CPOCC\u201D. However, as this Government is amending the bill to prohibit such operators from participating in New Zealand\u2019s market, this change will no longer be necessary. Therefore, the bill removes the POCC from the legislation after 24 months. This period is to ensure that the POCC can still be recovered in the period following enactment while operators still have bets pending on future events. This Minister for Racing has been around the track enough times\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f0ab79f3be443b09cc9db693aadb281\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CFalse Start\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f36088e1d23481a82b624f48f2cf333\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually, that was a racehorse\u2019s name, but way back in the 1950s. The other one I\u2019m talking about is Rising Fast\u2014he won the Melbourne Cup, Rising Fast did. But back to the point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe Minister for Racing has been around the track a few times, and increasing the market dominance of TAB NZ is a bold expansion of their prerogative on wagering in New Zealand. This Government\u2019s bill seeks to oversee that expansion with the appropriate rigour. This bill introduces powers for the Minister for Racing to request information from TAB NZ at any time. This is a broad power but a necessary one for oversight of a statutory entity for whom the Government is granting a great deal of fortune in the competitive market. These are sensible changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EAlso to that end, this bill will appoint a regulator to monitor compliance, with the new prohibition in addition to the reporting done by TAB NZ to the Minister for Racing. Compliance with both rules is set to be a top priority. The civility of the racing industry depends on it, and this legislation codifies that expectation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, thank you, I commend this bill to the House. I just suggest to my parliamentary colleagues from across the House that this is not party political, so to speak. We have to, if we\u2019re going to turn our economy around, go to industry after industry after industry and do so much better. This is one where we can do a whole lot better, as evidenced from the fact that we recently were in Malaysia and decided we\u2019d have an afternoon where we could go out and see a famous racecourse there getting under way. The consequences of that visit was that they came to the Ready to Run races at the end of this year at Karaka and must have bought about 35 horses, and they\u2019re coming back\u2014those same Malaysians\u2014at the yearling sales at the beginning of next year, at the end of January. It\u2019s by doing that in so many industries that we\u2019re going to lift this country\u2019s performance. As I said, it\u2019s hardly political; it\u2019s just plain common sense. Let\u2019s make sure this horse can run. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002210672f10442b42de8e667b86657d72a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210672f10442b42de8e667b86657d72a4\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac6548141d6c4effbbca6ed4673257c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac6548141d6c4effbbca6ed4673257c2\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Mr Speaker. Well, racing as a portfolio is certainly getting some exposure in the House today. As the racing spokesperson for Labour, I can indicate to the Minister that we will be supporting this bill through to select committee, although it\u2019s disappointing that the Minister didn\u2019t get to introduce this bill sooner. If he had, then the much-needed revenue that flows from this would have been in the pockets of industry participants much sooner than is the case, which would mean that the revenue could be reinvested here in New Zealand much sooner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWhat this bill does is it creates what we refer to as a \u201Clegislative net\u201D. It, basically, provides an opportunity to ensure that the revenue that has wagered on an online basis, overseas and the like, is, basically, retained or captured here in New Zealand. What does that mean? Well, it means that the money does not go offshore; it\u2019s retained here domestically and can be reinvested into the industry. If the Government had made that decision much sooner, following up from the work that was initiated under the Labour Government, that revenue would have flown in the form of investment and reinvestment into industry participants much sooner than is the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re talking about an industry here\u2014I know the Minister knows this, and I know he\u00A0knows it well\u2014that, basically, is around 14,000 full-time jobs here. If we take into consideration the number of volunteers and other participants, that sort of skyrockets beyond 40,000. We\u2019re talking about a significant amount of individuals who are associated within the racing industry here in Aotearoa New Zealand that generates close to $1.9 billion in value-added contribution to our economy. We\u2019re not talking about any small sense of coin in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EMany of us will have spent time visiting race courses not just in our electorate but beyond that. As we head into summer, there will be a number of racing opportunities where rural communities really rely on participation and involvement to help with community spirit. If we all reflect on opportunities that exist, that\u2019s just a wonderful opportunity that is there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re also known globally as a world leader when it comes to breeding\u2014our thoroughbreds. I know the Minister in jest talks about particular runners in the Melbourne Cup and the like, but we are well known around the world for our sense of breeding and also in terms of the equine component\u2014the particular approach that we have in that space, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe issue with this bill being delayed in terms of its introduction means that the additional turnover, which may be around about $180 million extra that could be circulated into the industry, is going to be further delayed. The $100 million payment that will come as a result of the Entain arrangement, which is a 25-year arrangement working with TAB New Zealand, also could have been received much sooner. It is disappointing that that is not the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EOne of the real benefits of this bill is the focus on harm prevention and harm minimisation. That is something that is happening all around the world. Earlier in the year, I was able to visit Kempton Park, where they were talking about, as part of their race day approach, the various approaches to harm minimisation and what that means. The problem that we have at the moment, of course, is that the TAB is only a land venue monopoliser. What this will do is it will, basically, extend that to an online offering\u2014or oversight on an online sense. It is a good move. I know that there will be a number of issues that we will still look forward to teasing out as part of the select committee process. We look forward to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis is actually identified in the departmental disclosure statement\u2014removing that point of consumption charge that the Minister talks about. That really is no longer a viable charge if the TAB is going to be the monopoly of it. The point of the consumption charge is to, basically, be able to clip the ticket and gather some revenue on any operators that are offshore, so that the domestic market is able to fare its sort of share as part of that. I did question why there is a 24-month delay. I understand it\u2019s because there still needs to be an opportunity to capture that charge for future betting\u2014stuff that happens into the future, into 24 months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ELook, we look forward to progressing this through the select committee, where we will tease out a few of the things that we would like to. On this basis, at the moment, we commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022408a1ea00551495498d559253f3e6885\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022408a1ea00551495498d559253f3e6885\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E This legislation will support New Zealand\u2019s racing industry by making TAB New Zealand New Zealand\u2019s sole provider for sports and racing betting, both on land and online. It thereby ensures gambling profits are returned to the domestic racing industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThe bill makes several other changes, including new oversight powers for the Minister to seek information from TAB New Zealand; the regulatory oversight and the prohibition on other operators; and extends regulation-making power for harm prevention and minimisation. As my colleague Tangi Utikere has just mentioned, that is something of significant importance. It will extend those regulation-making powers for harm prevention and minimisation to online TAB platforms, and it will create regulation-making powers to specify circumstances in which the TAB exclude customers from using their online platforms and other consumer protections. The net profits of the TAB are distributed to the racing industry and, through grants, to sporting organisations, so minimising competition protects gambling revenue for the domestic racing industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThe Green Party has a policy specifically that says we wish to prevent new forms of gambling\u2014they\u2019re associated with harm\u2014and regulate all existing forms of gambling to minimise harm. This bill does prohibit online betting services by offshore operators, and\u00A0online gambling is one of the risker forms of gambling due to its easy access and easiness to conceal, for those who do have issues with problem gambling. Offshore operators are also not covered by New Zealand law and the protections provided by our regulation. We previously supported legislation in 2019 to introduce offshore betting changes with revenue distribution among the racing codes, which we determined was sensible given that the current racing industry provides a service to offshore vendors for no compensation. The same justification applies to prohibiting offshore betting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThe primary point of the bill is to protect the financial sustainability of the racing industry. There is some question over whether that sustainability is a good thing\u2014for those who are concerned with issues of animal welfare, animals used for entertainment, and across racing codes. We cannot but acknowledge the very important decision that has just been passed this afternoon to protect greyhounds from racing harm, in the prohibition of that industry. Our party policy, however, seeks to regulate racing and does not explicitly call for its abolition\u2014in terms of horse racing, obviously, and other forms of racing. The primary point of the bill is to protect the financial sustainability. There is the risk that protecting TAB\u2019s monopoly in limiting competition will increase TAB profitability at the expense of betting consumers. However, we do not want the industry to grow and expand in a way that is potentially harmful for consumers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EIn that regard, we will be supporting this bill to the select committee. We will be seeking opportunities to make further potential amendments once we understand and review how best this bill can accommodate our objective of reducing the harm and improving community outcomes in regard to gambling. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2a07c9588474d588f233a55b6ae149c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2a07c9588474d588f233a55b6ae149c\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, and thank you to the House for the opportunity to speak to the Racing Industry Amendment Bill. Suffice to say, this is a good piece of legislation. We did grapple with some of the thoughts and discussion about how it would bleed into creating the right profit streams for the industry. We were a bit unsure about where the bill would land in its future but, equally so, I think it\u2019s incumbent upon us to allow it to go to select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re interested to hear, obviously, what the industry thinks about its own future, and we are, evidently, somewhat concerned about the creation of a monopoly in the private sector. That I say all that, this bill is an amendment to the 2020 Racing Industry Act and creates the right environment for long-term financial sustainability for New Zealand\u2019s racing industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a couple of key points I just want to canvass with the House if I can. Obviously, this is an extension to the monopoly and extends TAB New Zealand\u2019s existing land-based monopoly to include online sports and racing betting reality. I think we\u2019ve ever heard today a couple of salient points. Obviously, that speaks to the investment that the industry can reinvest in harm minimisation and issues to do with gambling addiction. That was notable and I think you can\u2019t canvass that point enough, as was raised by Steve Abel. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EThe economic impact: the racing industry generates significant economic benefits to New Zealand. I think that was well canvassed: 13,000 to 14,000 people and I think the wider number for the industry at large by extension to those associated with the industry was near\u00A0on\u00A040,000, and worth a couple of billion dollars. Suffice to say, I think that can only be a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EThe strategic partnership: the bill supports TAB\u2019s new strategic partnership with Entain, which is expected to deliver substantial financial benefits to the racing industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t want to over-litigate the point. We are a little bit concerned about the potential monopolisation of the industry and there will be some unintended consequences, I think, that the select committee will have to grapple with: economic impact to offshore operators, regulatory challenges, consumer choice\u2014where will that sort of bleed into. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EOverall, without overplaying my hand, we look forward to the findings from the select committee process and how they litigate the positives and the negatives of this legislation. Suffice to say, in the art of collegiality, we will be supporting it through this first reading, allowing that natural process of select committee scrutiny to go ahead. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa0ee7c0494f46a3b02cea5b7205bd2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa0ee7c0494f46a3b02cea5b7205bd2b\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me great pleasure to rise for the Racing Industry Amendment Bill first reading, and we look forward to it working its way through select committee and hearing the submissions on it. A great day for greyhounds and a great day for the New Zealand\u2019s thoroughbred racing industry here and its long-term sustainability. This legislation, as has been canvassed, will enhance that sustainability by making TAB New Zealand New Zealand\u2019s sole provider for sports and race betting, both on land and online. I commend this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e56f8d2c26814dcda28d89e61cc6e88c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e56f8d2c26814dcda28d89e61cc6e88c\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. We take these things seriously, and this is one of those bills that we welcome, as introduced by the Minister, as a look towards the current and the future state of the way that people bet\u2014in particular with respect to horses, but, of course, other sports betting online.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EWe acknowledge the partnership that\u2019s been entered into and, in particular, the goodwill monies, if you will, that has been given towards the sector and, broadly speaking, sport\u2014which is why it\u2019s one of those opportunities where we\u2019ve got a chance now to look towards how we might support right across the board and not just the specific part of online gambling. The reason I say that is because while that\u2019s important in this particular bill, we know that online gambling\u2014whether it\u2019s pokies or\u2014is already in our communities. I acknowledge the attempts at trying to minimise gambling harm in this country, and communities have taken steps towards doing that. For example, pokies in places like South Auckland; stopping the proliferation of those kinds of forms of gambling are important. But, of course, all that has done with new technology is shift gambling online.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EWith respect to this particular bill, it\u2019s good for sports betting\u2014in particular, horse racing. The Minister has spoken to that and we will be supporting it, but I want to caution the House here and say there are other things that we need to look at with respect to online gambling to make sure that what we\u2019re doing here is something that we can cast a lens across online gambling in other spaces that our communities are already engaged in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve noticed recently, for example, there are online influencers who promote online gambling to their communities, and that\u2019s a serious issue that we\u2019re yet to confront, but what we are doing with this bill is making sure that, \u201COK, we can allow this sort of thing, but we\u2019ve got to have an eye on the ball\u201D\u2014or an eye on the horse, as it would be. We\u2019ve got to make sure that it doesn\u2019t get away on us. We\u2019ve got to make sure that there are regulations here that will allow us to make sure that we don\u2019t see the horse getting away on us, if you will. That\u2019s why we support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EWe will interrogate a number of the matters as it goes through the select committee to make sure that the deal\u2014and that was engaged in by TAB and Entain\u2014was one that benefits the sector correctly and also doesn\u2019t, as members across the House have already mentioned, the way you create monopolies in these kinds of sectors. It\u2019s always something we\u2019ve got to be aware of and make sure that we aren\u2019t, by dint or doing something good here, simply creating monopolies for the sake of creating monopolies. We\u2019ve got to be very clear about why we\u2019re doing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the comments by the ACT Party member Mark Cameron, because this is where the select committee is going to be really important as we scrutinise this particular bill as it goes through, but from what we can see\u2014and the fact that the sector is already changed and has changed in the short number of years where online gambling and online betting has been in our communities\u2014one might argue that this has been a long time coming and it\u2019s been a little bit slow with respect to its introduction into the House. Having said that, we support it. We\u2019ll make sure we interrogate it through its processes. I take the Minister\u2019s word that we will be going through the full committee stage process, which I think is a good thing and welcome for such an important thing\u2014an important bill\u2014in our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to acknowledge just the work that\u2019s been done on racing. Why I say that\u00A0is, of course, COVID impacted communities and sectors right across the country\u2014in particular, horse racing, and racing and sports in general. We know that COVID had a significant impact on it. What it did do, however, is it gave the industry the opportunity to push the reset button, to say, \u201COK, what do we look like in a post-COVID world?\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c344756180d4aae8a67066742f6ace8\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab473f59b830400f817f91c40eacb97b\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014it\u2019s an opportunity\u2014\u201CHow might we be able to modernise ourselves? How might we be able to continue to reach our existing markets while looking towards other opportunities in this space?\u201D An acknowledgment to the industry, because it hasn\u2019t been easy; it has been a difficult time, and if there\u2019s one thing certain\u2014it\u2019s not to do with betting\u2014it is that technology will continue to change the way we operate. Let\u2019s just remind ourselves as regulators and lawmakers that we must remain nimble on the matter as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022 data-id=\u00220d60d8eaa8394684a6d9b891d1855508\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d60d8eaa8394684a6d9b891d1855508\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E I want to support this bill. I think that establishing the Department of Internal Affairs as the sole regulator for sports gambling in New Zealand is a positive step. I also think closing that loophole that\u2019s been exploited by overseas operators, so that the revenue stays in New Zealand, not just providing additional revenue for racing but for other sporting codes as well\u2014that\u2019s got to be a positive thing for New Zealand. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb57996c3b30461d804d4d624ccf3596\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb57996c3b30461d804d4d624ccf3596\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Like my colleague Tim Costley, I\u2019ll keep it short and sweet. Let\u2019s be clear, this bill aims to counteract the growing influence of offshore betting operators and ensure continued funding for the racing industry in New Zealand, ultimately keeping money raised through the TAB here in New Zealand. It\u2019s a good change; it\u2019s a smart change. As a member of the Governance and Administration Committee, I\u2019m looking forward to being a part of the consultation and listening to the submissions we receive. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00225e01b905930f4c5e9cc7a3da6c427905\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e01b905930f4c5e9cc7a3da6c427905\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to take a call on this bill, the Racing Industry Amendment Bill. As you\u2019ve heard from my colleagues, it\u2019s an important step but it\u2019s also important that we fully understand that the Government\u2019s proposal here is to be able to interrogate this bill through a select committee process. I understand that the Minister, when giving instructions to select committee, will be giving a full allocation of time to the select committee to move through that process, and that is a good thing. For the Governance and Administration Committee to be able to really drill down into what the industry needs and some sensible reforms there, it\u2019s going to be important that all parties represented in the Parliament are able to make their views clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve heard, for instance, from the Green Party today that their party policy is not to restrict all racing but that they would see a significant downsizing of the industry. I\u2019ve heard from my colleagues here that the industry is important to the regions, particularly some of the regions represented by the members who have spoken today, like Tangi Utikere. This is something that deserves proper consideration. It\u2019s very useful that we are not rushing this through. Without needing to prolong the debate here, I thank the Minister for his interest and his work on this. I thank him for the opportunity for my good colleague Tangi Utikere to be able to speak in his racing portfolio. It\u2019s a real enthusiasm of his, as it is for many of the Labour members who have held that portfolio, and I commend this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022 data-id=\u002257f654ef02e04b169fdf2fcf17a620fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257f654ef02e04b169fdf2fcf17a620fe\u0022\u003ESUZE REDMAYNE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. The TAB is the backbone of New Zealand\u2019s racing industry, and the racing industry itself is a significant contributor to our economy. A day at the races is a cultural institution in rural and provincial New Zealand. I want to take this opportunity to pay tribute to Kevin, Angela, Jason, Luke, and Caley Myers of KT Racing in Turakina, in the mighty Rangit\u012Bkei, who run a fantastic racing enterprise. Thank you. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022931c7d83c8cc4fd799b9db2a625333a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022931c7d83c8cc4fd799b9db2a625333a6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Racing Industry Amendment Bill be considered by the Governance and Administration Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Governance and Administration Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227caa7c21f5db42c08934186f51f4a871\u0022\u003EInstruction to Governance and Administration Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2352510a469448eb69931623d8b1ebd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2352510a469448eb69931623d8b1ebd\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Deputy Leader of the House)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Racing: I move, That the Racing Industry Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 30 April 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002244b10346c67d4c18a581abb2c83eac2b\u0022\u003EEmployment Relations (Pay Deductions for Partial Strikes) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002252b52696f48b4fce8bc0841b80a59f59\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022af778d48468c4769af25b7d7cb3068e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af778d48468c4769af25b7d7cb3068e0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Minister for Regulation)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: I present a legislative statement on the Employment Relations (Pay Deductions for Partial Strikes) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022859f69f1fbea47f4ae9b9ce22ea22eff\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be5a6852958c436f9bb5dd9891d5f8d6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Employment Relations (Pay Deductions for Partial Strikes) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Education and Workforce Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 22 April 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe Employment Relations (Pay Deductions for Partial Strikes) Amendment Bill reintroduces the ability of employers to make pay deductions in response to partial strikes. This change to collective bargaining settings will provide a far more effective and efficient bargaining environment where rights and consequences are more balanced and which minimises potential disruption to public services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWe have seen partial strikes result in patients facing delays to receiving medical scans and treatment due to medical staff limiting the number of scans they completed each day, and kids missing out on education due to teachers refusing to teach certain year groups on certain days. However, in spite of these inconveniences created by the withdrawal of people\u2019s work, there were no pay packet consequences for the medical staff or teachers involved in these partial strikes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EEarlier this year, train operators in Wellington undertook a work-to-rule industrial action, including refusing shift changes, which led to disruption for travellers. Currently, the New Zealand Defence Force Public Service Association union members are working to rule. They\u2019ve been taking coordinated breaks and stopped working at heights or off site. The Minister of Defence has responded by authorising uniformed personnel to cover civilian work in selected areas. Needless to say, this is a rare move from the Minister of Defence, and it\u2019s a shame that it\u2019s been made necessary by this industrial action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EOn the other hand, when a full strike occurs, employers can respond by suspending the employees and not providing pay. In this situation, there are negative consequences for both sides: the employees lose pay; the employer loses output. This provides an incentive for both sides to cease industrial action and return to the bargaining table as soon as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe same cannot be said for partial strike action under the current rules. If an employee is engaged in a partial strike, the employer\u2019s options are to either accept the partial strike action or to lock out or suspend the employees for the duration of the strike. Employers who do not want to be so heavy-handed in their response have no choice but to continue to pay the partially striking workers in full. There is currently no provision to allow a more nuanced or proportionate response, as would be normal in a society where people believe in cause-and-effect thinking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe ability to make pay deductions in response to partial strikes was introduced in 2014 as part of a package of amendments aimed at ensuring a flexible and fair employment relations framework for both employees and employers. In 2018, the previous Government removed employers\u2019 ability to reduce pay in response to partial strikes. Now, once this bill becomes law, an employer will not have to make a pay deduction in response to partial strikes. Under this bill, it will be an option for an employer involved in a negotiation. Employers will again be able to respond to partial strikes by being able to either reduce an employee\u2019s pay by a proportionate amount or deduct 10 percent of their pay. The ability to make a fixed deduction of 10 percent gives employers a choice in situations where it may be difficult to calculate a proportionate pay deduction. For example, for a large workforce, without the option to make it a fixed deduction, the administrative costs of calculating the proportion of work impacted could mean that it is not practical for some employers to make a deduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ERestoring employers\u2019 ability to make pay deductions for partial strikes could help incentivise both parties to return to the bargaining table and reach agreement sooner. This will reduce the impacts on communities that result from ongoing industrial action. I consider that enabling employers to make partial pay deductions provides the opportunity for a more balanced and appropriate response to partial strikes. It\u2019s also more consistent with the approach used in Australia and the United Kingdom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWhile I recognise the entitlement of employees to strike in support of their collective bargaining claims, they should not be able to do it at no cost to themselves, effectively putting the cost on to the employer and, as we heard in the case of school children and their parents and those patients waiting for vital medical scans, actually putting the cost on to the customers or the patients or the students of their employer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, this bill will provide employers with a specific response to partial strikes by reintroducing the ability to make pay deductions in response to partial strikes. It is sensible, proportionate change that should minimise potential disruption to public services. All New Zealanders will be able to have their say on the bill when it goes to select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI just hasten to add that I have brought this bill and taken this speech on behalf of the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety, the Hon Brooke van Velden. I have to say that, while she could not be in the House today, she is doing a superb job across the portfolio of making our labour laws make sense\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d269b7f5807b4bd99bb4573e575d65c9\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: A lot worse\u2014constantly attacking workers; taking workers backwards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aefb9a4bbfb54d8685dc433ecf1e6aeb\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014for contractors with holiday pay, with personal grievances. I hear Camilla Belich, the one-time employment lawyer, braying away there saying she\u2019s constantly attacking us. Actually, she\u2019s not, and it says something about Camilla Belich\u2019s attitude towards the workers that she believes something like this bill\u2014the idea that if you work, you get paid; if you don\u2019t work, you don\u2019t get paid. If you work\u00A0less, you get paid less; if you work more, you get paid more. To most New Zealanders, this kind of logic is common sense and first nature. To the Labour Party, they believe that you should be able to go on strike, inconvenience patients, inconvenience students, inconvenience parents, and still get paid the full amount, all the while creating incentives to continue industrial action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWell, once upon a time, there was a Labour Party that actually believed in public services for the public. Their interest was in equal opportunity for every child to get an education; for every patient, whether or not they had the means, to get healthcare. And what do you have today? You have a Labour Party that\u2019s going to stand up and complain and say it\u2019s an attack on workers to say that if you don\u2019t work, you don\u2019t get paid, and if you do work, you do get paid, and if you go on strike, you are withholding your work\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022600ded2ea653442db8a57a81cae0608b\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Does it just apply to work\u2014does it just apply to work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225698d757dce24d9f9f56c86ecc8aa579\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and not working, so you don\u2019t get paid. And then they\u2019ll say\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212bb6ea1958b499e9e98c66f52e65e7b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Ms Belich, I note that you\u2019re the next speaker. That might be the better opportunity than yelling across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a889b25c3c74a72ae70c3ffca57441c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Speaker, I\u2019ve seen Ms Belich give many speeches, and I\u2019d never contest your ruling, but I\u2019m not entirely sure about that one. The thing about it is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022da935c448f7d40b88bfc3cfabbc56bc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da935c448f7d40b88bfc3cfabbc56bc0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. Mr Seymour, sit down. Camilla Belich.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c87ffcb867034574b5cc03f62668797e\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7e69a2c8ea64ecb8c633d3f5bfdd8e5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve criticised the Speaker\u2019s ruling, so I\u2019ve curtailed your speech. If your point of order is in relation to that, don\u2019t bother.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c377e58825c425c8ae25638b83e02c6\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually, Mr Speaker, it is, because it was clearly in jest. I was facing significant barracking\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241fd6be7b7d44d7dacf730c297a0da18\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: On which, Mr Seymour, I had intervened. You didn\u2019t need to do that\u2014sit down. Camilla Belich.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b82c6bd1c29544c9897a9f00af65e173\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually, Mr Speaker, I\u2019ve got a right\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4b6436351bf4292935446538f65fdba\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Sit down, Mr Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u0022af0bd1fb1687431d85873cc85f5268ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af0bd1fb1687431d85873cc85f5268ee\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I wish I could say it was a pleasure to take a call on this bill, but it is absolutely not. The harmony that has presided over this House in relation to this urgency motion has well and truly ended with this terrible bill, which does attack workers\u2019 rights and does take working New Zealanders backwards, both literally in the sense that this was the law that used to apply. Does the ACT Party have no new ideas apart from rehashing things that were tried and tested and found to have failed? There is no evidence for this bill to go ahead at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003ENot only that\u2014not only does this bill take workers backwards\u2014but there is absolutely no evidence provided in the regulatory impact statement on the effectiveness of this bill or the fact it is actually needed at all. In fact, the regulatory impact statement goes into great detail on the fact that there couldn\u2019t be proper assessments done on this bill and the bill itself only partially meets the quality assurance standards of the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, the very ministry who drafted this bill. Why is the ACT Party deciding to, at every attempt, bring ideological changes to this House which simply do not work in practice, do not take New Zealand workplaces forward, and actually have no evidential basis and not only to bring them forward but also with not sufficient time for their own officials to actually scrutinise them and put them through the proper processes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThis is absolutely terrible and I want to speak\u2014I don\u2019t have much time, as this is first reading; five minutes\u2014to the real heart of the problem of this bill, and that was, in essence, the interjections that I was making to the previous speaker, the Hon David Seymour. This is a bill that does not just apply when people do not work; partial strikes are often situations where people have things like a union T-shirt on, a badge, a sign on their fire truck. These are all examples of partial strikes that would be covered by this bill. In those circumstances, at the passage of this bill, an employer would be able to deduct 10 percent\u2014or more, possibly, if they use the other type of calculation of an employee\u2019s wages\u2014when they have done their job, when they have fulfilled their contractual entitlement, and the only thing that they are doing is taking action to support their bargaining that they\u2019re having with the employer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003ENow, this bill, I would even go as far to say, goes against the object of the Employment Relations Act. The object of the Employment Relations Act is to promote collective bargaining. We\u2019ve seen the Council of Trade Unions state this today\u2014that this bill would do the exact opposite of promoting collective bargaining. This will\u00A0actually, possibly, encourage the use of the full withdrawal of labour from workplaces\u2014so encourage more strikes, so be more inconvenient to the public, meaning that people can\u2019t access the public services that we all want them to see, because they don\u2019t have the option of a partial strike without financial penalty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThis is a ridiculous proposition to put forward that people should, and employers should be able to dock people\u2019s wages\u2014their hard-earned wages\u2014when they have done the job they contracted to do. This could include things like coaching at schools\u2014that would be impacted by this. If you decided not to do that, if you weren\u2019t paid for it, that could be considered a partial strike and you might actually be paid less as a result of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022593a149f876149f281389db5d853081e\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Doing what, sorry, at schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e374627c9ee4694b527f40061d8c6dc\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: Doing extra duties, attending a rally during your lunch break\u2014that would be considered coaching. Yeah, you know? Like a sports coaching team. It\u2019s something that happens quite often in schools, and schools do have industrial action. The coaching that people might do is an additional thing to their job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003ENow, I do note the bill\u2014and I\u2019m grateful that it does\u2014excludes partial strikes for things like health and safety. That is correct; that is the way that it should be. But there are so many other different types of ways that people could be political in their role, supporting the role of their union, their right to collectively bargain, which is protected under the Employment Relations Act, which would be covered by this bill. This is a bill\u2014and I\u2019m looking at members opposite\u2014that stops people being paid the minimum wage if they have a deduction for a partial strike. This is what you\u2019re passing today. It could be people who do their entire contracted duties, who do not breach their contract, who do not get paid the minimum wage because they are taking part in their union action for better pay and conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThis is taking New Zealand workplaces literally backwards to a different time when the law came into place. There is no evidence. There are actually mistakes in this legislation. It is being rushed through\u2014I know that we are having a select committee, and I feel silly saying that I\u2019m grateful for it but I am. I do not commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00225a74b0d1542f4e0fbc04b08ec25732fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a74b0d1542f4e0fbc04b08ec25732fe\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Once again, this Government is the Grinch that stole Christmas. Here we are just a couple of weeks out from Christmas and the workers are getting another kick in the teeth from this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThis legislation is appalling. The Government is introducing legislation that will make it easier to penalise workers fighting for better pay and conditions. It is dire, Draconian, and outright disgraceful, even by this own Government\u2019s standards. The ability to strike, organise, and collectively bargain is a democratic right. These are critical tools that have empowered workers to contest and challenge unfair working conditions in the uneven playing field between them and their bosses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EWe did hear comments about concerns about interruptions to public services, and I think we all share that, but do you want to know something? If you want to minimise disruptions to public services, you pay people properly\u2014you pay the nurses, you pay the teachers, you pay people properly. What\u2019s the count now of the number of people across the public sector that have lost their jobs\u20146,000 or 8,000? I\u2019ve seen numbers up to 10,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EEverybody across the House likes to talk a big game about the brain drain, but where do you think these people go? Where do people go when they lose their jobs? They get on a plane and they get out of here to find better work and conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe Government is also getting ahead of the collective bargaining in the big public sector\u00A0workforces next year to undermine their ability to strike and try to frighten the workers into accepting their miserly offers that are coming. It is so important that we protect workers\u2019 rights, that we protect the right to strike as well. Acknowledging the comments of\u00A0my colleague Camilla Belich as well\u2014all of those different ways that are expressions of frustration with workers. If you are wearing a T-shirt as a part of the partial strike, that will\u00A0count as your pay getting docked; the different ways that people find to express their frustrations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThis is something that should be opposed across the House. The Greens will continue to fight this legislation every step of the way. Just to reiterate that point again, that if we do want to see fewer strikes\u2014if we do want to see fewer strikes\u2014you have to pay people properly. You have to pay the nurses properly. You have to pay the teachers properly. You\u2019ve got to pay those people that do all of those different bits and pieces. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EWe have this wonderful saying in te reo M\u0101ori, which goes \u201CKo te amorangi ki mua ko te h\u0101pai \u014D ki muri\u201D, which, if I can translate that into English, says, \u201CIf you take care of the front and you take care of the back, that\u2019s when everything comes along in a good way\u201D. Particularly on the marae, if you look after the paepae and you look after the k\u0101uta, the marae is well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EWhat we have with this Government is a commitment to gut the back office without any concern with what that means to the front office. This bill is Draconian, it is dire, and it is diabolical, a couple of weeks out from Christmas. This is a kick in the teeth for workers. Workers should be getting ready to organise against this Government and make them a one-term Government. We oppose this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3cdd6c0d21d4394b93f75ac3e19a659\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3cdd6c0d21d4394b93f75ac3e19a659\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022 data-id=\u0022391b6b2b5c6344aa90bdcbcd02477b16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022391b6b2b5c6344aa90bdcbcd02477b16\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E I think it\u2019s important to clarify for the House what partial strikes mean and how disruptive they are to the community. I have worked in transport for most of my career, and I have seen examples where bus drivers will turn up for work and they will drive around the route with the door closed and refuse to let passengers on, or they will refuse to take revenue to subsidise the ratepayer-funded public\u00A0transport. Not only do all of these things detrimentally impact the bottom line of a regional council or a business but they also affect the customer, the very person that every business and employee or public service and public servant purport to support and be there to work for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003EAt the very end of the day, the purpose of this bill is to introduce balance to a situation that is currently out of balance. We are reintroducing a piece of legislation that was revoked in 2018, which is not saying that nobody can strike, which is not saying that nobody can partially strike; it\u2019s to say that there actually has to be a consequence for the impact that this has on a business, on the Public Service, on the customer, on the member of the public that is entitled to that public service or to that service that they are expecting to pay for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003EAnother example is where partial strikes have been in the healthcare system, where, yes, people have turned up to work, but they\u2019ve taken half the number of, let\u2019s just say, MRI scans that they are supposed to. Now, again, not only is this actually putting more pressure on the future workforce, it\u2019s actually really a critical healthcare concern. There are examples of this across all sectors. It\u2019s not just public transport, it\u2019s not just health; in some cases, it\u2019s education, where the teachers, yes, are on site, they\u2019re at the school\u2014and they do that to avoid taking full strike action, which has its own repercussions\u2014but they aren\u2019t taking class or they aren\u2019t teaching certain things. Now, who does that disbenefit? It disbenefits the public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003EWe are here to reintroduce the balance, and that is what this is about. It\u2019s all about limiting the effects that strike action takes on the consumer, on the communities, and on the Public Service, because, ultimately, businesses and the Public Service don\u2019t have the resources to respond to every single strike action\u2014in this particular case, partial strikes. They have no ability to have recompense for what happens. In so many cases, actually, the Public Service or businesses have to put on additional staff that aren\u2019t part of the strike action and pay them additionally to the person they\u2019re still paying. Again, in this case, partial strikes, they might be on site, they might be reporting for duty, but they\u2019re not performing the duty, and so all of this has a cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003EAt the very least, to expect businesses and the Public Service to be able to take some of that, in this case, 10 percent\u2014up to 10 percent\u2014and take that as compensation, whether it\u2019s for the logistics involved in the disruption, the additional cost of having to put extra staff on, the compensation required for customers, the follow-up that\u2019s required when that partial strike action is complete and we have to put extra staff on to cover the backlog of work. All of these things cost. Actually, that is absolutely a disadvantage to the very people taking partial strike action, because they are bargaining for better terms and conditions or pay. If it\u2019s costing more to cover that strike action, what is that doing? Again, that\u2019s disproportionately affecting those people that are taking partial strike action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003EAgain I will summarise what I have said today, which is that, in the end, this is about putting balance back into a system and a situation where it is disproportionately disadvantaging those people that are entitled to a public service\u2014for the most part, it\u2019s people in the Public Service that are disproportionately impacted by this situation. The reintroduction of balance is bringing something back that we had prior to 2018, that is in step with the rest of the world; it is the norm around the world to be able to take this kind of consequence. It\u2019s a very simple thing to expect\u2014that that is what we would do in this case\u2014so to be throwing our arms in the air, saying that this is sending us back into the dark ages, is absolutely untrue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003EThis is a proportionate response to something that has a disproportionate impact on the public, and I think that when we go through the select committee process, we will hear just that. I look forward to that process. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u00225e565b431c68496a8d36373d56f3302b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e565b431c68496a8d36373d56f3302b\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON (Minister for Rural Communities):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. New Zealand First supports the Employment Relations (Pay Deductions for Partial Strikes) Amendment Bill. We have always believed in the egalitarian principle that a fair day\u2019s work deserves a fair day\u2019s pay, but both of those things need to go together. To get your fair day\u2019s pay, you do have to do a fair day\u2019s work, and to be able to withdraw your labour and still get paid doesn\u2019t balance, in our view. There should be some consequences, and we absolutely support the right to strike and withdraw your labour, but it cannot be done at the expense of your employer who you\u2019re bargaining with. That\u2019s a disproportionate balance of power and exactly the opposite of what the previous bill purported to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EWe do think that this rebalances and is proportionate, and it does incentivise both parties to settle. The employer, if there is a partial strike going on, is still paying a price\u2014they\u2019ve lost that productivity during that period\u2014and the chance of a spurious walkout is mitigated because there are consequences for people withdrawing their labour, workers withdrawing their labour. It\u2019s sensible to us, it\u2019s balanced, and it will hopefully save the nuclear option of having to have a lockout or full strikes, because it will incentivise both parties to come to the table. That seems fair to us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EWe have seen the consequences of this on a number of occasions since the law that we\u2019re repealing came into place, particularly, I know from personal experience, the teachers\u2019 strikes under the last Government, where the teachers were just striking and striking and striking, and the inconvenience to the general public was enormous. We didn\u2019t have the flexibility and the parents didn\u2019t have the flexibility and had to work around all those scenarios. It was tremendously disruptive to the broader community, and the teachers were able to strike with impunity at that point. That was under the previous administration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EAll the dire catastrophising over there from the Green Party, saying, \u201CJust pay people better.\u201D, well, they were in confidence and supply with a Government that conceivably would have wanted to pay them as well as they could, but there are real-world consequences. Everyone and every Government has got a budget they\u2019ve got to keep to. Every employer has got a budget they\u2019ve got to keep to. This balances that out. We\u2019ve got consequences on either side. It is a sensible bill. It is a balanced bill. New Zealand First will commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u00223a18525bcb7b4ff5b39b24f74b074939\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a18525bcb7b4ff5b39b24f74b074939\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E We continuously hear from and see from the Government for the elite, by the elite, from the elite; out there to make sure that they\u2019ve demonised every hard-working person, every community, anyone that wants to fight for their rights\u2014what we\u2019ve continuously seen from this Government. While I heard my colleague on the right calling them the Grinch, I just think that\u2019s way too kind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EWhat we have here\u2014and I think probably about this time last year we were speaking to\u00A0the reintroduction of the 90-day trials. That really should be of no surprise that we\u2019re here today again, talking about why people shouldn\u2019t strike, pretending that we\u2019re worried about the services. Actually, what you\u2019re worried about is the shareholders\u2019 profits\u2014the shareholders\u2019 profit margins\u2014because that\u2019s, effectively, what productivity is turning around for you. Let\u2019s just remind ourselves what we\u2019re here about. This Government\u2019s whole tough on crime, now tough on employees, seems to be really the key message.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232d6ba38837e4fc5b9cd143e25b991af\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I wonder if you might draw the member speaking\u2019s attention to Standing Order 112. She\u2019s so far spoken for a minute and hasn\u2019t actually addressed the bill. She has made a number of imputations about the motivations of the Government to which you might draw your attention\u2014to Standing Order 121, I think it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208529b906cb347ee88792f8ec810e5da\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s also the purview of the Chair. Thank you for that advice. Carry on, Ms Ngarewa-Packer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022142d7c1ebc2a402b84a06feddc8d2869\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. What we see here is, sadly, a bill that\u2019s been put forward\u2014a bill called the Employment Relations (Pay Deductions for Partial Strikes) Amendment Bill. What we see is it\u2019s been brought forward here to demonise workers\u2014to demonise\u2014and enhance and help bad employers. It\u2019s always been that a good employer will not want to see things carry on\u2014they will not want to see their staff strike and they will want to mitigate it and come together and negotiate and settle as fast as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EI just want to give a list in respect to this bill and how it relates to marginalised workforces. W\u0101hine M\u0101ori and Pasifika are, effectively, working for free for the rest of the year when they compare the pay to the average P\u0101keh\u0101 man\u2019s salary. Over a lifetime, M\u0101ori women will\u00A0have earned over $400,000 less than P\u0101keh\u0101 men. Discrimination in the workplace\u2014because this is why we fight for rights: discrimination in the workplace. We know that M\u0101ori are adversely affected. Approximately 93 percent of M\u0101ori have experienced some form of workplace discrimination, as disclosed in findings released just last year. This is why we have strikes. M\u0101ori are often\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cfef8f76a934ea4a7dcf2a98ee13342\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Ms Ngarewa-Packer, some references to the bill would be good around now, and some speaking about the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022233d5f00538741538eec34e75f7aa311\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yep, sure. M\u0101ori are often represented in sectors including agriculture, construction, and hospitality. These types of working environments are notorious, and why they are part of the partial striking environment. When we strip workers of their rights to protest and strike against these types of realities, these types of working conditions in place put bad employers ahead and use the balance of power\u2014because that\u2019s really what this bill is about. It\u2019s about the balance of power and those in workplaces that are unsafe, those that are sitting there fighting for their rights to be paid better, to be recognised better, to end discrimination.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EThe right to strike is a fundamental democratic right, one that we\u2019ve been very proud of having in Aotearoa, especially when working conditions become so dire that there is no other means by which to make their voices heard. The amendments to this bill absolutely revoke the democratic rights of workers. In this Government, particularly the ACT Party, these amendments expose their true agenda\u2014the agenda to support and look after the profits of the shareholders that we see from entities like, I don\u2019t know, Atlas, revealing not a democratic party but rather one that would prefer to silence the voices that advocate for change. In this case, better working conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022991a1d887bcc490ca6084310e189dd09\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aeaf38ec8d9c4e91a7ffc1b61defbcf1\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, David Seymour. This had better not relate to the current speaker and her reference to the bill. That, again, as I\u2019ve reminded you, is the purview of the Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7d4538d529f4e25bbf757fb96d336dc\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Speaker, you acknowledged my previous point of order, and the member appears to have completely ignored what you\u2019ve said. I would argue that she\u2019s now trifling with you and perhaps you could be a bit consistent and sit her down too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c339012d6fe74bdf901f0007c1a589ad\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you can argue all you like. Carry on, Ms Ngarewa-Packer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e090699ac3954e0b8361477d7d288148\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. This bill is not about protecting workers or the general public; it\u2019s about protecting unfair, bad employers from any consequences. Really, what it comes down to is being able to make sure that those workers are able to deliver these services and that they are working for good employers and that they are able to strike and demand better conditions that cannot put themselves and their jobs at risk. It\u2019s simple. A broken workforce means broken services\u2014whether it\u2019s healthcare, education, or public safety. Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori do not support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u00223eff8e6218e34ac59235e31c4bb3e7e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223eff8e6218e34ac59235e31c4bb3e7e0\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui): \u003C/span\u003EThank you, Mr Speaker. I can\u2019t help, as we speak this evening on the Employment Relations (Pay Deductions for Partial Strikes) Amendment Bill, to listen to the irony that\u2019s coming from the other side of the House. On the one hand, they want us to create employment relationships here in New Zealand that are fair and reasonable, but on the other hand, if we make a change that is fundamentally about fairness to both parties, they\u2019re worried about people going to places like Australia. Well, I want to remind you of the speaker from the Green Party\u2014Teanau Tuiono\u2014who spoke about them getting out of New Zealand and heading off to Australia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EWell, it\u2019s interesting, if we go to the regulatory impact statement on this bill, it says in paragraph 32 that \u201CEnabling employers to make partial pay deductions in response to partial strikes would be consistent\u201D\u2014would be consistent\u2014\u201Cwith the approach in Australia (from 2009)\u201D. The Australians didn\u2019t repeal this in 2018\u2014unlike some Government that wanted to take New Zealand backwards that happened to be in these seats then. It goes on to say, \u201Cand the United Kingdom (UK)(in case law from the 1980s).\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EThe Opposition want to argue this concept of fairness, and when it\u2019s not fair in their eyes\u2014because they have a one-eyed view of fairness. They think fairness all relates to one party in a relationship. They don\u2019t understand the concept that fairness is about both parties coming to the table and determining a relationship that works and is appropriate for both parties. If it\u2019s not fair in their eyes, \u201CSend them off to Australia. Send them off to the UK\u201D. Actually, they\u2019ll just find that not only are the rules the same over there, or very similar, but they\u2019re going to those places or they\u2019re looking to go to those places because they\u2019re more productive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EUnlike the view of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, which thinks that productivity is all about shareholders making money, productivity, fundamentally, is about these workers earning money at a value for the roles that they play. Now, it didn\u2019t fall on deaf ears\u2014it did not fall on deaf ears when Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori referred to the work that is being done, that these employees are partially striking from, as being the \u201Cbits and pieces\u201D. Now, I don\u2019t know about you, Cameron Brewer in Upper Harbour or Mike Butterick there in Wairarapa, but I reckon the teachers in Whanganui, the nurses in Whanganui, the doctors in Whanganui, the police in Stratford, the tradies in H\u0101wera, the MRI operators at Whanganui Hospital, the kindergarten teachers, the bus drivers, even here in this precinct, the Parliamentary Service staff, would be offended by their work being referred to as the \u201Cbits and pieces\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EI think the Opposition needs a dose of realism as we come to Christmas, needs a dose of realism when it thinks about the relationship between employees and employers, because, fundamentally, the relationship has to be based on fairness. This legislation is going to rebalance it. It\u2019s going to ensure, as we had prior to 2018, a relationship that recognised that, if you did a good day\u2019s work, you got a good day\u2019s pay, but if you choose not to do a good day\u2019s work, if you choose not to help the health sector deliver, if you choose not to help your employer earn some money, then there\u2019s going to be no money to pay you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EBoth the State, who employs people, this economy, the Crown here, has to be financial, and that\u2019s why we\u2019ve been making the changes that we have, but companies need to be as well. Money doesn\u2019t just materialise out of thin air; you can\u2019t just appropriate it. We need to ensure that our employment laws here are consistent with those around the world as we build a nation of productivity that can pay the sort of incomes that these people deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00224179d4165ec84fe0ac56c6a207951eff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224179d4165ec84fe0ac56c6a207951eff\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E That was a shocking speech\u2014absolute shocker\u2014and par for the course from an ill-informed National Party, who, sadly, are being led around by the one and only David Seymour over there, who is taking all their votes at the moment, as you can see. The puppet master is leading them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ENow, in terms of this Employment Relations (Pay Deductions for Partial Strikes) Amendment Bill, just for Mr Seymour, I wanted to quote that bill for him, because we had a h\u012Bkoi the other day. Mr Seymour, he\u2019ll recall it; he was bravely standing three kilometres from the h\u012Bkoi with all his police escorts around him, but the very brave and courageous David Seymour was there and he was looking out at the h\u012Bkoi. Why I\u2019m mentioning the h\u012Bkoi is because thousands of workers were participating on that h\u012Bkoi\u2014thousands. That\u2019s why this is so relevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIt wasn\u2019t just about M\u0101ori; it was about New Zealanders participating and protesting against Mr Seymour and his useless, rotten ACT Party and a National Party that has walked away from their principles and what they stand for. This is, as Camilla Belich said, yet another shocking attack on workers\u2019 rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b8c58c718b840d5a46b1b7b9c53d6a5\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c524ba6cc1b43f4b298dbda8ea5b7f3\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you\u2019re not going to complain about me calling your party\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002299d6aa86d6ea4b1fabe9bce79a5c810c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299d6aa86d6ea4b1fabe9bce79a5c810c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Sit down, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022213d45df5fe14f288a399477865c5c57\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: I shouldn\u2019t need to do this, but I wonder if you might draw the member\u2019s attention to the Standing Orders I referred to earlier, particularly 112, about relevance to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002258bc9f64bfbd4d8d9faa7d156136f1b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258bc9f64bfbd4d8d9faa7d156136f1b0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I wonder if the member considers, when he stands on his feet to do this, whether he actually might be buying another minute or so for the person who\u2019s speaking, but I\u2019ll let him consider that. Carry on. As I\u2019ll point out, that is a job for the Speaker. Carry on, Mr Jackson, but please don\u2019t take that as an invitation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a20a8f604b1e438ba9b4d702b07c593c\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, no, that\u2019s all right, Mr Speaker. That\u2019s all right. But I do have to make it clear to Mr Seymour that on that h\u012Bkoi, 60,000-plus\u2014so many workers were protesting against his dirty, rotten ACT Party and this coalition. It\u2019s important that we make the point today that workers are sick of it. This is a day when nurses are walking out\u2014they\u2019re walking out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThis is a cynical move by the Government. They\u2019re amending our work from 2018, and it weakens workers\u2019 ability to ask for better conditions and pay; that\u2019s just the reality. It\u2019s part of this wider Government\u2019s strategy in terms of rolling back workers\u2019 rights, including getting rid of fair pay agreements, 90-day trials. It just continues and continues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EYou have to ask, what is driving this coalition Government in terms of their agenda? It\u2019s very upsetting for us when we think about workers who could get docked or penalised for nonsensical things. It\u2019s already been mentioned by Camilla Belich\u2014wearing a T-shirt, losing their wages. Going by this particular agreement, if they went on the h\u012Bkoi, I mean, they\u2019d be in their own time, but Mr Seymour and this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3d648e67d1440e08db799db0503e93d\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Totally irrelevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b4c8cedbd6f4ccab6f4afe341c0f482\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely relevant, because so many of those workers hate you, and absolutely relevant that I put on the table that thousands of people are not just protesting against the breach of M\u0101ori and Treaty rights but they\u2019re standing up for their rights, for their workers\u2019 rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EAs Camilla Belich said, this doesn\u2019t stack up. It doesn\u2019t stack up on the regulatory impact statement, it doesn\u2019t stack up in terms of what the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions is saying. In fact, we had the president, Rachel Mackintosh, calling on political parties to vote down this terrible piece of legislation. She said that it will undermine the ability of workers to engage in industrial action and may even lead to workers losing pay for simply doing their job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019m saying here is that on the job they can lose money. They can be docked for wearing a T-shirt. They can be docked for anything, all in the name of productivity, as the brilliant member from Whanganui talks about, and I\u2019m actually talking about Tariana Turia, certainly not that member over there. They can be docked for nonsensical things, all in the name of productivity. What is that? We know what it is, but the other side have a different view in terms of how productivity works. Market flexibility is not the be-all and end-all in terms of workers\u2019 rights in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI say today, on behalf of Labour, we are disgusted by this bill that Mr Seymour and his team are putting up. It\u2019s yet another attack on workers\u2019 rights. It\u2019s another attack on basic rights that every worker in this country should be entitled to. We just ask the question: when is this going to stop, Mr Seymour?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022c957785c82b74ec0a55381aa896b6a3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c957785c82b74ec0a55381aa896b6a3e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The time has come for me to leave the Chair for the meal break. The House will be resumed at 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 5.57 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022 data-id=\u002265348ad70a83407b945ec06c27ef0195\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265348ad70a83407b945ec06c27ef0195\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This bill, despite what we\u2019ve heard from the other side of the House, does not take workers backwards. There actually seems to be an inherent distrust of employers on that side of the House. Who are employers? They\u2019re mums and dads that work hard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve also heard about people heading across the Ditch for the brain drain. Well, you\u2019ve got to ask yourself: why are they going? It\u2019s because of a recession forced by the administration. It\u2019s a bit rich.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003EThis bill\u2019s about restoring proportionality and balance between an employer and employee. I commend this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0a5966795dc41d0b8d78b5abe4a4d5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0a5966795dc41d0b8d78b5abe4a4d5a\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E Well, once again we\u2019re here in this House as the National Party and its coalition partners chip away steadily, progressively undermining the rights of workers and of unions to negotiate on their behalf. This bill is manifestly both unfair and impractical. It\u2019s unfair because it is diminishing the rights and the bargaining power of workers in this country to negotiate and get a fair share of the wealth that they contribute to producing. It\u2019s also completely impractical. The apparent, professed intent of this bill is that it will incentivise people to settle their industrial disputes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWell, let me tell you why it\u2019s unfair, first. It\u2019s unfair because the simple act of, for example, a nurse who\u2019s part of industrial action wearing a union T-shirt, which includes a demand for better pay, for example, instead of their uniform at their place of work, could actually be penalised, could have their pay deducted by 10 percent or whatever it would be under the formula in the bill. Teachers taking industrial action, partial industrial action, by, for example, declining to do things that they normally do, like teaching sport, that are not in their collective employment agreement, but doing things like that as a way of actually protesting against their employer as part of a bargaining process could have their pay deducted. That\u2019s not an incentive to settle a dispute\u2014it\u2019s actually an incentive to go all the way and not protest by a partial withdrawal of labour, but it actually incentivises a full withdrawal of labour. It\u2019s completely impractical. It doesn\u2019t do what it says on the tin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI want to say also that this just once again really exposes the doublespeak that we constantly get from the National Party and their allies on questions of collective bargaining and industrial relations. They say from time to time that they want to see incomes increased and they shed crocodile tears about people going to Australia so they can earn more money, but every single time\u2014every single time\u2014a bill comes before this House that has the potential either to increase incomes or to diminish them, that side of the House always votes to reduce the incomes and the bargaining power of workers in this country. We saw it in the demolition of fair pay agreements earlier in the term. We saw it in the minimum wage increase that wasn\u2019t actually a real increase; it was a real reduction in the minimum wage. We saw it in the restoration of the 90-day, fire-at-will trial legislation, and now this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWhy is that? It\u2019s because for that side of the House, wages are a labour cost for them. That\u2019s how they see it. It\u2019s a cost\u2014of course they want to drive it down. They don\u2019t see and they don\u2019t understand that actually low pay is a scourge in this country. It\u2019s at the root of so many of the social problems that the State spends all of its time and money trying to fix. Why do they want to actually take away and constrain the ability of workers to partially withdraw their labour as a way of showing protest in a bargaining process? It\u2019s because they actually believe and they favour low wages. They don\u2019t support increasing the wages of working people in this country. They take every opportunity to undermine the bargaining power of workers and to drive down wages, because for them labour costs are just that: they are a cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI look forward to digging in a bit deeper in the select committee on this bill, and learning just how pathetic and tawdry and undermining it really is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022 data-id=\u00225bd112f3fe694ed8a8bacceb338b1f43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225bd112f3fe694ed8a8bacceb338b1f43\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to take the final call in the first reading of the Employment Relations (Pay Deductions for Partial Strikes) Amendment Bill. A very simple principle in life: if you want to get the full pay, do the full day. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220881ec60b5c94a26b9a5c53438b31507\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Employment Relations (Pay Deductions for Partial Strikes) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000672\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022bfc9b6a63ec64833a50989c083a08e66\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bfc9b6a63ec64833a50989c083a08e66\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Employment Relations (Pay Deductions for Partial Strikes) Amendment Bill be considered by the Education and Workforce Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Education and Workforce Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c8521436f84c4045aafdede308fc3236\u0022\u003EInstruction to Education and Workforce Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022194068ac146149949b3cdb0949b14253\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022194068ac146149949b3cdb0949b14253\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Minister for Regulation)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: I move, That the Employment Relations (Pay Deductions for Partial Strikes) Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 22 April 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022794814adb3304714b9447893b9319b1d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022794814adb3304714b9447893b9319b1d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I declare the House in committee for consideration of the Fast-track Approvals Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226793bad1d6064180999d4fad93b4e55b\u0022\u003EFast-track Approvals Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b13fab00908c4a659d9cc0954653378a\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022126ce0ca8bb54ddc88c3df8a0f3cb90b\u0022\u003EPart 1  Preliminary provisions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002252538c49592e43f2a087b5781416f4d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002252538c49592e43f2a087b5781416f4d7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Right, members, the House is in committee on the Fast-track Approvals Bill. We come first to the debate on Part 1. Part 1 is the debate on clauses 3 to 9, \u201CPreliminary provisions\u201D, and Schedules 1, 2, and 3A.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EBefore we begin, I draw the committee\u2019s attention to the Minister\u2019s amendment to listed projects in Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238. Advice I have considers that it is out of order as being in the nature of private legislation. Many of the projects are listed under authorised persons in a private capacity. The effect of being listed appears to be of benefit to\u00A0the specified persons, which would differ from other persons who apply for fast-track approval. Provisions that are for the particular interest or benefit of a person or persons are classified as private legislation by Standing Order 257(1)(d). As a result, the Minister\u2019s amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 may not be debated and no question will be put on it. The question is that Part 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd558332c310411f88930c8027b9b58b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd558332c310411f88930c8027b9b58b\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, on this side of the Chamber, we take a different point of view in terms of the advice that you have received from, I presume, the Clerk, and I seek now your confirmation: are you accepting the advice of the Clerk to rule out the schedule?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e62b4e80f3645959dcb7df693e0e127\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf57545fdca14e9a959760201802731c\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: In that case, I would ask that the Speaker be recalled to further adjudicate on this matter, because this is an important principle and an important part of this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002236035dc6904348ca8c7ec972aee30196\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236035dc6904348ca8c7ec972aee30196\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: OK, we have a request that the Speaker is recalled. Is that a vote? That is a vote. The question is, That the Speaker be recalled to give a ruling on the matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c4af7cc2eeef496e94e844c7fac2bea4\u0022\u003ESpeaker Recalled\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6934465c6db45259e7e5a30c82902f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6934465c6db45259e7e5a30c82902f6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I\u2019m directed by the committee to obtain a ruling from you on the admissibility of the Minister\u2019s amendment to list projects in Schedule 2, as set out on Amendment Paper 238.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EWhen commencing the debate on Part 1, I informed the committee that Schedule 2 is debatable with that part. I told the committee that the Minister\u2019s amendment to the schedule is out of order as in the nature of private legislation. This is because many of the projects are listed under authorised persons in a private capacity, and the legislative effect would appear to be of benefit to the specified persons, which would differ from other persons who apply under the bill or fast-track approval. On that basis, I informed the committee that the amendment was out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EA point of order has been raised, and I have been asked to obtain your ruling on this matter now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2c08f1f24124f86a6ea6a66de15574b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2c08f1f24124f86a6ea6a66de15574b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Is there anyone else who wants to speak to the point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022997a9f4ca5fa4a9cb0bcb89563870497\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022997a9f4ca5fa4a9cb0bcb89563870497\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the point of order, the Government profoundly disagrees with the ruling, and it is our submission that the amendments in Amendment Paper 238 in my name are matters of public policy as described in Standing Order 257 and, therefore, more than appropriate for consideration as an Amendment Paper. I would point you, sir, to the example of the COVID-19 Recovery (Fast-track Consenting) Bill considered by the last Parliament, which also included a list of projects in its schedule, with some promoted by private entities. Projects were also added to that bill via Amendment Paper, like the Government is proposing here. That bill was accepted as a Government bill and passed by Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ERather than focusing, sir, on whether or not the amendment in question confers a private benefit, I would submit to you that Standing Orders require the focus should clearly be on whether or not this is a matter of public policy. The intent of the Cabinet and the Government is clear. The projects have been listed for their ability to deliver significant regional and national benefits, and the overall value of them in terms of economic and social benefit. The Government is listing these projects, or attempting to list these projects, in order to generate significant regional and national benefits to the country. That is clearly a matter of public policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EPrivate bills are an ancient parliamentary power that have enabled Parliament to address private wrongs that are done to people or where a private individual or company sought to be exempted from compliance with a law that caused them acute hardship. But maintaining this form of direct access to Parliament by private individuals should not come at the expense of Parliament\u2019s sovereign power to legislate upon matters like this. The Government\u2019s strong view is that if the position is taken that the Government is unable to propose legislation like this to Parliament, it will set a dangerous precedent that will fundamentally undermine the executive\u2019s power to progress matters of public policy through legislation and will potentially lead to perverse outcomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ETo give you an example, sir\u2014and this illustrates the silliness of the current proposition\u2014if this interpretation is correct, a wind farm listed in the Fast-track Approvals Bill by Government-owned Meridian Energy would be able to be listed because it is a 51 percent - owned Crown mixed-ownership company; however, a hydroelectric power scheme seeking to be listed in the bill by privately owned Contact Energy, notwithstanding the fact that it used\u00A0to be Government-owned, would not be able to be listed because it is a listed public company, despite the reason for the listing being the exact same reason, which is the benefits that accrue from having renewable energy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EPast Speakers\u2019 rulings support the Government\u2019s position; I\u2019d refer you to 109/5: this concerns a Government bill relating to the Bank of New Zealand Inc. Speaker O\u2019Rorke ruled\u00A0that, despite the bill benefiting a private corporation, because the bill was an amendment to a public bill pertaining to a measure of public policy, it was therefore not ruled to be a private bill. In the past, it is clear the same public policy test that the Government holds to\u00A0has\u00A0been\u00A0used in determining the classification of bills under Standing\u00A0Order 257.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EFor example, the Christ Church Cathedral Reinstatement Act 2017 and the Riccarton Racecourse Development Enabling Act 2016 dealt with privately owned buildings, land, and facilities. Perhaps a more apposite example that members will be familiar with is the Dairy Industry Restructuring (Fonterra Capital Restructuring) Amendment Act 2022, which supported the introduction of Fonterra\u2019s new capital structure. These were all deemed to be Government bills as per the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s profound view is that the Government is entitled to put legislation of this nature before the House, and we ask you, sir, to overturn the ruling of Madam Chair in the committee of the whole House stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd4170665cf142438ea6d4f6c68ce900\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd4170665cf142438ea6d4f6c68ce900\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. We profoundly disagree with the position of the Leader of the House, particularly his statement that if this ruling by the presiding officer were to continue, that that would set a precedent. That is incorrect. We have three instances here\u2014in 2003, 2006, and 2018\u2014when this ruling was made and upheld.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIn fact, we would put to you that if you were to rule against the presiding officer\u2014and\u00A0then, in doing so, against the advice of the Clerk\u2014that would actually be unprecedented. For a Speaker to be recalled and say that both the Clerk and the presiding officer have this wrong would actually have significant consequences to this Parliament and indeed raise the question whether a private bill could continue to be one of the three types of bills that this House considers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWe are unable in this Parliament to consider hybrid bills. They do in the House of Commons in the UK, but here it is quite clear that it is either a member\u2019s bill, a private bill,\u00A0or a Government bill. In fact, Speaker Mallard made a detailed ruling on this in Speaker\u2019s ruling 108/2, referring to Speakers\u2019 rulings 118\u2014and others, in fact\u2014which state that matters that should be in private bills cannot be introduced into public bills by way of amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s quite clear that the distinction here is when a bill will materially benefit an individual or an organisation. That is the Clerk\u2019s advice, and it was outlined very clearly in Speaker Mallard\u2019s ruling around the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill, that matters that should be in one kind of bill cannot be introduced to another\u2014and it appears that is the basis of the Clerk\u2019s advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ETo rule against them, sir, we\u2019re very concerned about what impact that would have on the role of private bills moving forward. We\u2019re concerned about what that would say about your stance on the Clerk\u2019s advice\u2014given that I\u2019m not aware of any instance, our researchers aren\u2019t aware of any instance, ever in the New Zealand Parliament where the Clerk\u2019s advice on matters such as this, when the Speaker\u2019s been recalled, has been overruled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWe have other points that we wish to make, sir, but I\u2019m not sure we need to go on right now. That\u2019s all I wish to put forward at the moment. Others may wish to have other points to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00222f5b3d83be184fffafc6e0fdd08f3d66\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f5b3d83be184fffafc6e0fdd08f3d66\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I do want to just speak relatively briefly on the importance of the question before the House today, because if we are going to today decide that matters of a private nature which confer private benefits can be lumped into public bills, we are fundamentally changing some of the constitutional precepts which underpin this Parliament. The Hon Kieran McAnulty has alluded to the fact that there are very distinct bills and the twain do not meet, but the really important thing here is that this Parliament has developed a procedure where if there is a petition of a private person to right some wrong or to confer some benefit, then there is a very clear private bill procedure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe Leader of the House alluded to the ancient origins of private bills, and he\u2019s right, and they actually come from the ability to have judicial questions determined in this House, which is actually very apposite for this bill, because there are a number of private interests in that schedule who have gone through the courts and have been declined permission. I know a development in \u014Choka in Canterbury is one of them. They have lost in the courts, and by coming into this schedule, they are, essentially, trying to use this House as a final court of appeal to confer a private benefit. Now, that is possible under a private bill. This House should thoroughly interrogate whether there are good reasons to change the law for a particular person in that instance\u2014that\u2019s what a private bill does. A public bill is separate for a reason; it changes the law for everyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EFor the Leader of the House to loosely wave at the private benefit of hydro projects, it doesn\u2019t answer the real question. If we want to go through that schedule one by one and say\u00A0which belongs within a public bill and which belongs in a private bill, we are prepared to do it, but to slip in private projects which have been declined by the courts, and to overrule the courts in a private contest is more than just procedurally poor, it changes what we do here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019m reading here from Professor Philip Joseph\u2019s text on constitutional and administrative law, where he makes very clear the fact that private issues are quasi-judicial, because they affect a private right, not the law for all of New Zealand. It would be procedurally an outrage, frankly, to accept this schedule, but that is the least of the problems, because constitutionally it would shake the very foundations of what we do in public bills. That\u2019s why Dr Wilson gave the advice that he did, and that\u2019s why the Chair of this committee agreed with Dr Wilson. My very clear view is that both procedurally and constitutionally, a separation is needed between private interests and public interests, and this has been muddied horrifically in this schedule. I implore you, Mr Speaker, to uphold the Chair\u2019s ruling in this case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022a519096da3524c838bc513a286e77d9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a519096da3524c838bc513a286e77d9d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call any other member, can I just ask that contributions are confined to the question that\u2019s in front of us. Matters of public policy, or concerns about particular items that might appear in the schedule, are not relevant to the question that I\u2019m being asked to judge today. While I\u2019m sure some of the views that have been expressed are deeply held, I\u2019m not particularly swayed by the emotive aspect of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00227990bbcbc463424e91ebf027ce9b7ce4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227990bbcbc463424e91ebf027ce9b7ce4\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you. You have been recalled to give a ruling on the admissibility of Amendment Paper 238, and that is what I\u2019m speaking to. New Zealand\u2019s Parliament has the fewest veto points of any Western Parliament. The Speaker is one of them, and you are being asked to use that power today to preserve the constitutional arrangements of New Zealand\u2019s democracy. It\u2019s right that we are able to contribute to this debate now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a21a32343b924d8c89dfc0899e500842\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think it\u2019s good for you to contribute to the debate, but don\u2019t presume to give the Chair a lecture on the constitutional arrangements of New Zealand. Some of those claims are just claims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f11302d5c8ec42509ddf022f55938741\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: The point I wish to make is about the Ng\u0101ti Mutunga bill in 2006, the debate of which you were a part. I\u2019ve read that debate carefully and understand the difference now between what was being alleged there, which was, essentially, that was a hybrid bill between the public function of the iwi organisation that was receiving a benefit, and the private benefit which was being received by the existing trust structure in settlement of its assets. That\u2019s a useful precedent to consider here because there is a mixture of private and public benefit in this bill, but where the Speaker was returned to the chair in that case and backed the ruling of the chair of the committee, it was because the private benefit conferred at an amendment stage went to the heart of what a private bill is meant to be, which is promoted by the promoter so that there is sufficient public scrutiny that has been invited by that promoter, and that the private benefit was well understood. Neither of those two things were met in that case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also drew your attention, Mr Speaker, to the fact that that was about a creature of legislation. A number of the examples that the Hon Chris Bishop has presented to you are about entities which were creatures of legislation that were created by law. That was also the case in the Ng\u0101ti Mutunga decision, but what made that a private benefit was not that it was a creature of legislation; it was because a private trust with private members and private capital was receiving a benefit through this process, and it wasn\u2019t adequately promoted. That is the same situation here. That is the precedent we should be continuing, and overruling that precedent would create a huge problem for the way that we continue with pieces of legislation like that in future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00220c06ee0174fe4c4380a22581fa8fbb71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c06ee0174fe4c4380a22581fa8fbb71\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, I appreciate I\u2019m a little late to this particular debate and I\u2019ll keep my points relatively confined. You\u2019ve been here longer than me, but I\u2019m still a relatively longstanding member, having been here for 16\u00A0years, and the points that I would make are this. I have never seen the ruling of a presiding officer, a Chair of the committee of the whole House, on the admissibility of an Amendment Paper, or what we used to call Supplementary Order Papers, overruled by the Speaker during the time that I have been here. We would be entering into very rare, if not new, territory for the House were you to overrule the decision of a presiding officer. In the whole time I have been here, all of the Speakers that I have served underneath have taken the view that they will not undermine the standing of the presiding officers of the committee of the whole House on a recall overruling decisions that they have taken. This would be new territory for that to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe second is that, of course, does rely on the committee Chairs following the advice of the Clerk of the House, which I understand has happened here. The Clerk of the House\u2019s job is to provide impartial advice to the presiding officers to ensure that the Parliament acts within the confines of its own rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232dcd9cfe7b1405e8b06cbb691d6e74c\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: It doesn\u2019t mean he\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cd7505835094e008915973f3ff778c6\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: This is a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecaa616dc5424b8bb3df3281b4966861\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll have no comment during points of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228451f76607634fcfae0ef8de17829156\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The Clerk is here to determine that the Parliament acts within its own rules, within its own precedents, and makes decisions that are consistent. If the Clerk has advised that this Amendment Paper should be ruled out of order, and the committee Chair has ruled that the paper should be ruled out of order, it would be unprecedented for the Speaker, on recall, to reverse that decision, and would create a whole series of precedents I\u2019m not sure you would want to get into, because you\u2019ll find yourself recalled very, very frequently if that becomes your practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6c357ad70734c2a8fd536b88b2efa10\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll take the Hon David Seymour and then one other call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00223609ec1ff94d4bdb9b04d35b31dd551d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223609ec1ff94d4bdb9b04d35b31dd551d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Minister for Regulation):\u003C/span\u003E I just feel that someone should point out that the question of whether the benefits given by this bill is public or private is actually moot. It doesn\u2019t give any benefit. It doesn\u2019t take from one and give to another. It simply allows people to use their property rights with a little bit less bureaucracy and rigmarole than they\u2019d otherwise face under laws made by this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00227f00af9fbd30402bb0ebb862a6f24a95\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f00af9fbd30402bb0ebb862a6f24a95\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I have four brief points to make. The first deals with the precedent that Minister Bishop raised in respect of the BNZ reference in Speakers\u2019 rulings\u2014quite different. I agree with the ruling, of course, that is in the Speakers\u2019 rulings. That is, as a matter of public policy, the Government of the day chose to issue a guarantee to the BNZ as a matter of public policy to protect the banking system and the depositors\u2014clearly a matter of benefit to the public and a matter of public policy. I don\u2019t think that\u2019s a precedent that the Minister can rely upon, because it wasn\u2019t conferring a private benefit to the BNZ; it was conferring a benefit to the banking system and to the depositors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe second precedent that was raised was in respect of the COVID-19 legislation. That legislation was quite different from this legislation. That just changed a process in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic; it didn\u2019t change legal rights. This legislation changes the Conservation Act, the Resource Management Act, the normal protections in the Wildlife Act, and many other pieces of legislation, for the benefit of the people that get that special leg-up. In a way, that is a private benefit, which, in my suggestion, would be quite different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe third point I would make is that, with respect, sir, I think you should take cognisance of the fact that this hasn\u2019t been raised at select committee. There has been controversy that this been dropped on the House late in the piece, and there were people wanting to make submissions, maybe because they wanted to make the very points that the Clerk of the House has made to the House\u2014that there are issues here that we should be concerned about that go to probity\u2014which is one of the reasons why we have rules against this sort of thing being done in a public bill rather than a private bill. Indeed, that\u2019s the reason\u2014and I was the Minister responsible for the overseas investment legislation, where the exemption that was given to a development up North was ruled out by the Speaker. I accepted that ruling as being proper, and I think the same principle applies here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe fourth point: if this ruling of the Chair is upheld, it\u2019s not the end of the world for the Government. They still have the ability to push these projects through\u2014the legislation, if it passes. It\u2019s just that they\u2019re not listed in the schedule, because that creates a private benefit from the legislation, rather than the process that subsequently flows from the legislation. Although the Government might not want that to happen, they still could avail themselves of this legislation when it is passed to, if they want to at that stage, avail themselves of the process under the Act that will then exist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e687e09b8ab44e16bd879bcef7625f91\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00226e28c925452c462ab078f12f800152dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e28c925452c462ab078f12f800152dc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK, look, this had better be short and preferably not the sort of lecturing comments I\u2019ve heard from most speakers so far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u00229fb66b90f2db4294b59681b601620946\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229fb66b90f2db4294b59681b601620946\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Resources):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This is a significant issue, and I don\u2019t want to trifle what you\u2019ve said before; you didn\u2019t want to hear from anyone else. Most of what we\u2019ve heard pertains to a private benefit. I endorse what has been said, that these are broad impacts upon society. I respect the role that the Clerk of the House has and I respect the role that his fellow workers have, but this has a broad impact. It is not correct to analogise it to a singular recipient of a private benefit, as my dear friend on the other side of the House\u2014Mr Parker\u2014has referred to. I don\u2019t want to rehearse the arguments in relation to the first fast-track bill. This has such a widespread impact. It is not sustainable to continue to argue that the impact of this schedule will be enjoyed by a narrow range of New Zealanders. It is profound. It is not inconsistent with the public welfare, which this bill seeks to produce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c21a5908bce4a388bb5cc7807471880\u0022\u003ELan Pham\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022649a04d9037f4c46b761bb31d968e228\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022649a04d9037f4c46b761bb31d968e228\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, look, I did say we\u2019re at the end of it, so this will be the very last contribution. Lan Pham. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022 data-id=\u0022373742f1714443658c96478484411468\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022373742f1714443658c96478484411468\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I wanted to rise just to respond to what\u00A0has already been raised by the Government member, particularly about these being broad aspects across society. These are not broad impacts. This is about a specific set of 149\u00A0projects that specifically impacts quite a narrow group of people, and I want to give one example, being the Waimate waste incineration plant. This is an entirely private company. It impacts one school, a very set amount of farmers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f057d93be104eeda0325236fe535875\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, look the question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bef071717792425c90dfa13d1ff2eb77\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s narrow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2fbeec6a9d54f5091b9c6cffbb13e33\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: With all due respect, the question here is: is the amendment in or out, tested against what has been the advice from the Clerk? Go again to the projects\u2014we could do it one by one, but it won\u2019t make any difference to the thinking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236d448324e134f94b39998be3dd3c4eb\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. The reason I\u2019m responding to this is because we absolutely support the view of the Clerk, and we think that this amendment confers an unacceptable threshold of private benefit afforded to a few, compared to the general public. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022f48afd29b88345bb99c2cc7ad3dc4b9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f48afd29b88345bb99c2cc7ad3dc4b9a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It won\u2019t surprise members that I\u2019ve done a great deal of thinking about this\u00A0particular issue, as it\u2019s been on the cards for a number of days. I want to, at the outset, thank the Clerk for the advice that he has provided and acknowledge the Chairperson for her taking that advice and presenting it to the committee. In the end, though, a decision about this\u00A0lies with me as Speaker. I thank members for their contributions to this particular debate, and if I was to summarise it, it is in favour of policy on one side and in favour of precedent on the other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EGenerally, it\u2019s the role of the judiciary to decide how law applies to particular cases. It is undesirable, in principle, for Parliament to make law that is only for the benefit of specific private persons. Where the House does consider such law, it does so carefully. We would not want to permit a situation where members and Ministers could simply propose bills and amendments to benefit particular private interests without proper scrutiny under the House\u2019s rules. The issue here centres on what it means for a provision or amendment to be private legislation. There are three tests to apply. If the answer to all three questions is yes, then the proposed provision is private legislation and should not be included in a Government bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe first question is: does the proposed provision affect a particular person or body in a private capacity? Clearly, this is not the case where the entity concerned is a public body. If the provision affects a private entity but relates to a public function carried out by that entity, then that may be a matter that can be dealt with in a Government bill. There are clearly some persons listed in the Minister\u2019s amendment that are affected in a private capacity. It\u2019s worth noting, though, that there is virtually no bill passed in this House that doesn\u2019t have some private benefit, or at least have it claimed to be part of its legislative arrangements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe second question is: does the proposed provision affect the person or body but not affect all others belonging to the same category or class? Under the bill, a person listed in Schedule 2 would be affected differently from the rest of the very broad category of persons who may apply for fast-track approval\u2014that being that they are in the schedule; others need to come to the Minister to seek approval to get on that fast track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe third question is: does the proposed provision have a legislative effect that gives rise to a particular benefit or interest to a person or body? I agree with the Chairperson\u2019s assessment that there could be a beneficial effect from being listed in Schedule 2. However, this legislative effect needs to be considered in the broader context of the bill. On the one hand, a listed project would not need to go through the initial process of applying and being considered for referral under the bill, and would not be subject to the same criteria as a referred project. On the other hand, if the Minister\u2019s amendment to Part 2 were adopted\u2014I\u00A0should add, too, that when it\u2014well, just go back a little bit, and say considered for referral under the bill and would not be subject to the same criteria as a referred project. Those referred projects listed in the bill have been through a process, although that is not something the House can consider. On the other hand, if the Minister\u2019s amendments to Part 2 were adopted, a listed project would still need to undergo a substantive application process, with a number of requirements in common with any other referred project. Approval for the project could still be declined or conditions imposed, as for a referred project.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIt differs in some ways to some of the points that are made, quite correctly, by members of the Opposition; where the argument from the Government seems to be that a bill should be able to benefit a particular private entity directly, as a matter of public policy. That is not unusual. This is not a sustainable position, though, in reference to Standing Order 257(1): to a matter of public policy, make a distinction between that sphere and matters that are of interest to or benefit to particular persons. It is what is meant by \u201Cthe interest or benefit to a particular person\u201D that is the issue here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re looking at admissibility. The presiding officer considered the text of the proposed legislation without regard to process carried out within the executive branch; that is appropriate. The fact that the Government deems the proposal to be a matter of public policy is not the presiding officer\u2019s concern. Subject to the Standing Orders, the presiding officer treats all legislative proposals the same way, whether they are put forward by a Minister or another member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI therefore consider, with all the remarks that have been made, taken in the context of the other amendments set out on Amendment Paper 238, the legislative effects would not be sufficiently clear as to give rise to a particular benefit for an authorised person for a listed\u00A0project, as distinct from a referred project. On that basis, I\u2019m not satisfied that the Minister\u2019s amendment to Schedule 2 would fail the third test as I\u2019ve set out. It\u2019s finely balanced, but that is my conclusion. Depending on the amendments agreed by the committee before reaching Schedule 2, my view is that the Minister\u2019s amendment to Schedule 2, set out on Amendment Paper 238, is admissible. However, on account of the potential beneficial effects the amendment may confer, the Chairperson would be justified in allowing a more considered and lengthy discussion in the committee stages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI declare the House in committee for further consideration of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022528a382f98fd4493b95d4e69cf009ea7\u0022\u003EFast-track Approvals Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b5e9d1e273a14469b16e49a5f4e1455c\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000751\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223967fcef188d4a2faef27f1a7a71c55d\u0022\u003EPart 1  Preliminary provisions (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002225c8a0dc1a09496c8c21013c9ff8642d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225c8a0dc1a09496c8c21013c9ff8642d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: OK. So, members, we are back in committee stage for the Fast-track Approvals Bill, and the question is that Part 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u00222f519e3cfa134e348eea4976d4a586ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f519e3cfa134e348eea4976d4a586ea\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Now, I want to clarify a couple of things with you, Madam Chair, before we really get into this, and that is, of course, we\u2019ve now had that ruling from the Speaker. Schedule 2 is in Part 1, so we will want to be discussing those projects, probably project by project, and we are also very interested in going through every clause of this bill. Now, of course, that Schedule 2, as we\u2019ve just heard, has not gone to select committee. This is our only opportunity to scrutinise the projects contained in that, so we will want to spend some time going through it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI do want to start on clause 3, before we get to the schedule, because clause 3 is the most important clause in this piece of legislation. It is the purpose clause, and why it\u2019s so important is because of the mechanics of the rest of the bill, and particularly in the schedules further on that will be in the Part 2 debate. That is because when decision makers are making decisions on any approval, they have to give greatest weight to this purpose clause. It\u2019s very important that we look at what the purpose clause says. That is that the \u201CAct is to facilitate the delivery of infrastructure and development projects with significant regional or national benefits.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EYou will note that, unlike other resource management or conservation legislation, there is no reference to anything to do with the environment. There is no reference here to sustainable development. We know\u2014we have the supplementary analysis\u2014that, in fact, officials recommended that there should be such a reference. This goes to the heart of why we on this side thought that those private projects in Schedule 2 should have been ruled out, because this purpose is totally different from all the other environmental legislation and because this purpose has the greatest weight, that means that the projects listed get a benefit that normal applicants do not get. That benefit is to pollute, and it is a disgrace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, my question to the Minister is if he will consider an amendment in my name, Amendment Paper 129, and that is that the purpose is amended and amended on a number of fronts, to read: \u201CThe purpose of this Act is to facilitate the delivery of public infrastructure, housing, or aquaculture with significant regional or national benefits while continuing to promote the sustainable management of natural and physical resources for current and future generations.\u201D That change to the purpose does a number of things, and it was reflected in a number of submissions from people who think a lot about resource management and environmental legislation, such as the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, the Rt Hon Simon Upton; such as the Environmental Defence Society; and many others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThat is to not only include that reference to sustainable management that would solve lots of the problems I\u2019ve just addressed but also to constrain this fast-track bill to projects that are going to be helpful to the public: public infrastructure, also housing. We acknowledge that there are housing issues in New Zealand\u2014nobody has an issue with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a774fc783914b88bcfe604b650b128d\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what did you do about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022178839972e5c491e8d62230a05f5e826\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m being asked what the previous Government did about housing. Of course, one of the things was a Spatial Planning Act that this Government repealed a year ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232a4d8181fdc4ff5883d4a4f5fb66e2a\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: K\u0101inga Ora\u2019s gone broke.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1f9733d38164c86a6b6feeb9d49546a\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Medium density: something that the National Party agreed to and then reneged on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThe Minister heckling will be interested to know that I\u2019ve also included aquaculture in here. There seems to be a lot of want for aquaculture, but, of course, I\u2019m very open to other amendments where that may or may not be included. The point is that, for something to benefit from this bill, it should be in the public\u2019s interest. There should be a public policy reason for doing it and it should not be for the private profit of individual companies being allowed to pollute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002247a1234efd284e919d5a389b6bbcea70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247a1234efd284e919d5a389b6bbcea70\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thank you, Madam Chair. I have two questions. The first one is to clarify a recent change to committee stage rules that allowed for an Associate Minister who isn\u2019t sitting at the Table to sit near the Table and make themselves available for questions. The question I have is: is the Hon Shane Jones\u2014albeit in his normal seat\u2014given his responsibility relevant to this bill, here in the committee available to answer questions? If he is, then he should not be allowed to heckle as the Minister in the chair isn\u2019t allowed to heckle, otherwise they\u2019re having a bob each way. I\u2019ll come back to my second question if you wouldn\u2019t mind responding to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002299a287ea77a441acae3ad180b642c6b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299a287ea77a441acae3ad180b642c6b1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Thank you. Could we just clarify if Minister Jones is here in fact to answer questions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002236d999efb22143a78dffc771cc02aac8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236d999efb22143a78dffc771cc02aac8\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00229ecf15f51fed415db3dddf9d47202ab7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ecf15f51fed415db3dddf9d47202ab7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The answer I had is no, he\u2019s not here to answer questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00222f6c9877a2104898b10415c857fb8113\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f6c9877a2104898b10415c857fb8113\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E OK. Further to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eca58111a6f6497cb0c9d3a0ec94b4df\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll tag team it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edc059953d95443ba1b54e1951d0d451\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you\u2019re going to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022454cccb6667d40f4b0bbe815c8edd731\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll tag team it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa47cd72809241bab50fb68d137fc6aa\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re going to tag\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc9398b6cdb74bbb92859dfdd5b0a4df\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll alternate in and out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fadf39a31cb49a0b8dca3463881ae75\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019ll be sitting here when he answers questions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220df53334b5a0435cbce72821275e5279\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Yep.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffbb6bac23c7478eba2a568039485f6c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022567601565aa049c088ffa993f03f327b\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that raises claim to the rule that says you can\u2019t change seats in order to heckle. If they\u2019re going to be tag teaming in and out, then surely there must be a restriction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec50bb1978004720a80218191c0899e9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I think it really is inappropriate if there\u2019s a Minister who\u2019s going to be sitting in this chair who will be heckling from the sidelines too, so that\u2019s fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8e57019288748beaaf07c75d1b9bcd8\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. The second question is much more substantial. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260487118f54c4134b1f77cf358c523ce\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Can we have the point of order in silence, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7880f4cb1214d58b2982df5e0e9b976\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve just had a ruling from the Speaker that is unprecedented. That was established, and I\u2019m not doing a point of order to challenge that. There are other avenues in which for us to talk to the Speaker about that. However, by virtue of being unprecedented, we haven\u2019t had it before, and so we don\u2019t know what this means in terms of how the House runs. At the end of his ruling, the Speaker\u2014this is the only point I\u2019m going to focus on at this moment\u2014indicated that due to the nature of this amendment and the nature of his unprecedented ruling, the House can expect an extended and broad-ranging debate on this matter. Now, we don\u2019t have other rulings to rely on to give us clarity here, so I think it would be in the committee\u2019s interest for you to clarify how that is going to be applied in practice during the remainder of this committee stage debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c337d46e9c148a3b3c101a8e8d91972\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, in practice, if the questions that are being asked refer to parts of the bill and are not repetitive and asking genuine questions, not repetitive and exactly the same as any other committee stage, then there is the ability to ask those questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a4a388dcf6b482a90778535d737738e\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Further to this point of order. Exactly the same as any other committee stage doesn\u2019t really sound consistent to me with\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8fcff0450184c73a36a408514eaf588\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, speaking to the member\u2019s point of order, we\u2019re under urgency, which is a feature in itself\u2014that when we don\u2019t have a select committee, we have the ability to ask more questions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e564d5a3fa24954b98fd39e5d5f8526\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: This was at committee for six months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c55457960c64549a4f4557d39682982\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but it\u2019s under urgency right now, and so we\u2014yeah, sorry, it was at a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f76e08668e24122b82ec9c8dbdc6fa4\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Not the schedule, though, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d930117b509a4d27878e5b8772e8a67b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: But the schedule has not been at select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be0521f8b6534bd09a837ee4865792e8\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: And that\u2019s what the Speaker was ruling on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022757cc8ec5c7c45878c34eaa41592907d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The bill itself has been at select committee but the schedule has not been at select committee. All I\u2019m saying to you is that if the questions are relevant and not repetitive and specific to the bill, then I welcome your questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272481936a04d4971bb7a319337a4d84d\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: With the utmost respect, my only concern with that is that is no different to any other committee stage, and when the Speaker does a ruling of that nature and gives the House an undertaking that there will be a broad and ranging debate on the schedule\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022beac3fa86ede465186209b496e5e484c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: On the schedule.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b673bbdab9a44e5288d1a9f879376674\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I accept that. That\u2019s my only point: it is on the schedule, which hasn\u2019t been to select committee, and in the context of that, I was hoping for an undertaking from you for clarity to the committee how that would be applied. You\u2019ve given that, but it is no different to how it would be applied in any other committee stage, and that, to me, seems an inconsistency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e73be2c4fbc84fe18435fa24451990fa\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: OK. The answer to that is that it still cannot be repetitive but it was a warning to the Government that the committee stage would be longer than usual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb13ade5e0a34a0b9139b05db691f114\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb13ade5e0a34a0b9139b05db691f114\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to deal with the couple of remarks made by the Hon Rachel Brooking. Firstly, on the purpose clause, clause 3: no, the Government won\u2019t be adopting her amendment, for the simple reason that we are comfortable with the purpose clause as described, because it does what it says on the tin: \u201CThe purpose of this Act is to facilitate the delivery of infrastructure and development projects with significant regional or national benefits.\u201D That is literally the reason why the fast-track bill is before Parliament and why the Government is attempting to pass it. We are comfortable with the purpose clause, and we won\u2019t be amending it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EOn the broader issue about the alleged difference between public infrastructure and private, the Opposition seems to be of the view that everything private: bad; everything public: good. As I pointed out in my remarks in the debate that we\u2019ve just had, that ignores the fact that much infrastructure in New Zealand is privately owned\u2014for example, wind farms and hydro stations up and down this country that are owned by Contact Energy, a private company. It can\u2019t be the case that something is OK because it happens to be 51 percent owned by the Government and listed on the stock exchange, and not OK when it happens to be privately owned by a group of investors across New Zealand and Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI would also point the committee to private housing developments. Now, Rachel Brooking makes the point that we need more housing. Well, most housing in New Zealand is not built by councils or the Government. If it was, we would be in some significant trouble. Most housing in New Zealand is built by the private sector. Do they do it for profit? Yes. Do they do it to make money? Yes. Do they do it to provide houses for people? Yes. Are there public benefits from the provision of widely accessible, affordable housing? Yes, of course there are, but the capital deployed to build that housing is not public capital. If the solution was K\u0101inga Ora, then we would have no housing crisis any more, because under the last Government, they had billions upon billions upon billions of debt given to them, or allowed to borrow, and billions of dollars of operating subsidies, and the public housing waiting list quadrupled. It can\u2019t be the case that the solution is always public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s the reality that seems to have escaped the Labour Opposition: we live in a mixed economy. We live in an economy where public and private capital is deployed to create jobs and growth. Clearly, the Government has a really important role in doing that; equally, so does the private sector. The projects listed in this bill, and indeed the whole purpose of this bill, is to utilise public and private capital and reduce the red tape that allows that capital to build the type of prosperous New Zealand I think everyone in this House supports. There are public projects on this list. The New Zealand Transport Agency is listed on a range of the roads of national significance projects. There are council projects, which are clearly public in nature because they are council projects. There are private sector projects led here, but the point I\u2019m making is that it is wrong to try and create a false distinction between the ownership of an entity doing a particular thing and separate that off from the benefits that accrue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EMeridian Energy is publicly owned but creates benefits across the economy. Contact Energy is privately owned but creates benefits across the company. Lines companies in the electricity sector have a variety of ownership structures\u2014Vector has some. Wellington Electricity is a privately owned company; most Wellingtonians probably think it\u2019s owned by the council\u2014it\u2019s not, thank God. It is in fact owned by a private, foreign-owned company, and they deploy their capital and provide electricity to Wellingtonians.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWe live in a mixed economy is my point, and just the ownership of a particular entity is irrelevant to the issue of benefits that accrue to the economy in a regional and national way, whether or not they\u2019re jobs, whether or not they\u2019re growth. That is why the Government took the position we did on the Amendment Paper. That is why we\u2019re listing the projects in the first place. This false dichotomy that the Opposition seeks to draw between public and private benefit, as I\u2019ve demonstrated through repeated examples, breaks down when you actually apply your mind for more than five seconds to the issue at hand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00225b3b51b97e404b28a0056a05fbe2a711\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b3b51b97e404b28a0056a05fbe2a711\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I think we do need to go through a number of the examples that are listed in the schedule in Part 1 of this bill, to see that we on the Opposition are not talking about false dichotomies; we understand the complexity of the interaction between public and private benefits. But what we have with some of the examples is actually the head-on collision of private benefit and why this bill did need to be examined in more detail around where those private benefits were accruing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI want to talk about the Trans-Tasman Resources application that is listed in the schedule. There\u2019s, of course, some potted history that some members of this House know very well\u2014the history of this claim. It had been overturned by the High Court, had gone to the Supreme Court, and it had not been allowed. What we have is a listing of that project in the schedule of the bill. Sitting alongside that is that we have another form of private benefit leaving New Zealand, taking their capital in the form of an offshore wind development company, citing the inclusion in the schedule of this bill as one of the reasons why they are withdrawing their investment in New Zealand and taking it to jurisdictions where it is more welcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EFor the Minister responsible for RMA Reform to stand up and say that we just don\u2019t see that there\u2019s any place for private investment is naive; of course we do. We understand that private investment in infrastructure is absolutely necessary. The contention we have with this bill is the fact that we have such clear accrual of private benefit through the schedule, and sometimes meaning that they can leapfrog other private benefits\u2014other people seeking to invest capital that will have public good for New Zealand in the form of more energy and electricity generation in the form of offshore wind. The Minister needs to actually grapple with the concepts that we\u2019re talking about here, engage with them in a mature way, rather than just dismissive headlines that we saw in that last contribution, which, although I\u2019m giving a very specific contribution in this call, I will note how broad the Minister just took the debate in that one contribution that he gave\u2014an already broad stage of this bill got even broader with that Minister\u2019s contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe Minister has to explain to the committee why it is appropriate that we are here under urgency, legislating for the private benefit of a single entity that have been denied by the courts, over and above another form of private investment in the form of offshore wind, which has explicitly cited the inclusion of Trans-Tasman Resources\u2019 application in this bill as a reason why they\u2019re withdrawing their capital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ENow, one of the things that we\u2019re making very explicit\u2014and my colleague Rachel Brooking was at pains in her contribution, and always is at pains to emphasise\u2014is that, obviously, in the Labour Party, we are not opposed to a process to expedite projects that we need to: infrastructure, housing. We put one in place when were in Government and we did it for a very good reason. We saw housing developments occur. We saw renewable energy projects go through. We saw a number of good infrastructure projects be progressed. But there is a fundamental difference with the bill that is on the Table today, which is contained in the purpose statement, and it is one of the most fundamental unbalancing of how we think about our environment and our economy in New Zealand in decades. I think we need to be very clear on what we\u2019re doing there. We saw the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment say that this goes further than the notorious National Development Act 1979 in terms of that great unbalancing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI would encourage the Minister in the chair to explain to this committee why it is that it\u00A0is appropriate for this committee to be legislating and giving the regulation-making process, under 61B, which gives the power to grant exemptions from the Act\u2014why it is, in Schedule\u00A02, that Trans-Tasman Resources is listed. He can\u2019t say it\u2019s because we just don\u2019t like any private benefit, because what we\u2019re asking is: what about other private investors who are seeking to bring their capital to this country to invest in important infrastructure like offshore wind but have been driven out, in no small part, by the inclusion of a project that has been overturned in the courts time and time and time again? That is an example that we do need an explanation on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022175eb14bb69a4056a79d0527298f12ad\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00220a323afa6a8e4bfd89ae1ebf0597f5ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a323afa6a8e4bfd89ae1ebf0597f5ac\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order over here from\u2014[Interruption] Are we sure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a75a6b8eefc145d99e0a858f79c1f909\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: He wasn\u2019t even calling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206e0bb259b3845dda969c26709a7036d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: He did call. Someone over here called a point of order, I believe it was\u2014thank you. The Hon David Parker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022e70e0cfb799b46938a975af816c55ddb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e70e0cfb799b46938a975af816c55ddb\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E In regard to the Minister in the chair, the Hon Chris Bishop\u2019s comments about public or private, can I refer him to the first listed project from the Amuri Irrigation Company, which is an application that\u2019s described as being \u201Cto construct and operate a ring dam providing approximately 10 million cubic metres of water storage and to divert approximately 1.5 million cubic metres of water from the Hurunui River.\u201D I don\u2019t know how often\u2014what the period is on that, whether that\u2019s over a year or whether it\u2019s per month, or per week, but how can the Minister justify that sort of application being included in Schedule 2, given that the provisions of the Act deliberately exclude the participation of any environmental interest?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI would have thought that the Minister, even if he wanted to push through developments, would want to hear an environmental perspective in respect of an application to store 10\u00A0million cubic metres of water, diverting 1.5 million cubic metres of water from the Hurunui River, given that that must, surely, have an environmental effect. Why is it that unlike the earlier version of fast track, where there were some listed environmental groups\u00A0who could make a written submission to the decision-making panel, such as the Environmental Defence Society (EDS) and Greenpeace\u2014Greenpeace didn\u2019t actually often choose to do it, but EDS often did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022192e6176be824228b41d2f36264e2ddd\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: We did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ef6ba32864146888888d2cb7119ac91\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Greenpeace did, often, thank you. How can the Minister justify that\u2014that there is no environmental voice being listened to\u2014whereas the development interests of the applicant in line with the purpose of the legislation is given such weight?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESecondly, in respect of that, am I correct in my understanding that even if that was found by the council to be in breach or found by people looking at the application to be in breach of the regional or district plan\u2014either of them\u2014does the panel have the right to override the plan and give them a consent anyway, notwithstanding the provisions of the Resource Management Act which are intended to protect the river ecosystem, and, if so, how can the Minister justify that, and how can he further justify that without an environmental lobby group having the ability to even make a written submission?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u002230a9e4f270174ed0b6b48a4008b55d8c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230a9e4f270174ed0b6b48a4008b55d8c\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. And just briefly clarifying the comment made by the Hon David Parker: you\u2019re right that Greenpeace did not commonly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8497baf488b4f87bcd6d6df0bc59520\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Never.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbc77483616541049f26d6b24dd80b4b\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL\u003C/span\u003E: No, there\u2019s not never. In fact, we\u2019re part of Ng\u0101 Hap\u016B o Ng\u0101ruahine in opposing one of the projects on the fast track\u2014that ended up going to court, but it was not often. That\u2019s an important point to make\u2014that, in fact, there is a challenge with the onerous burden of putting on a non-governmental organisation the expectation that they can scrutinise a multitude of applications. In the case of Greenpeace, which is the biggest environmental NGO in the country, it was even a challenge for the capacity of that organisation to take on that responsibility. There was only one primary piece of that fast track in the previous iteration challenged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003ENow, I wanted to speak to the purpose clause, as Rachel Brooking had raised earlier on, and to the point of why is it so much of a revulsion, should we say, for the Minister responsible for RMA Reform to consider the environment as part of that purpose clause? As the Hon David Parker rightly pointed out\u2014he should know; he drafted the legislation\u2014the previous version said that significant regional and national benefits \u201Cwhile continuing to promote the sustainable management of natural and physical resources.\u201D There is a very useful and important qualification to it simply being about things that are in the national interest, projects of regional and national significance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThe environment is the foundation upon which all of our endeavours are built. It is indeed the basis of life on earth\u2014and I\u2019m not trying to be dramatic about that; it is a scientific fact\u2014and we came into existence through the thriving means of environmental ecological activity. Indeed, if we compromise it in such a manner as it is unable to provide us with those necessities of life, it is certainly not in the national or the regional interest\u2014such as clean water, such as a stable atmosphere, such as fertile land, such as a healthy marine coastal environment. All of these things are serious and vital considerations, foundational considerations, in this century, in this era, when we know just how much harm we are capable of doing in the Anthropocene to that foundational cause of our existence\u2014indeed, all our endeavours and activities as a species on this planet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EWe have, in Part 1, clause 3, a very simple amendment that comes under my name. After \u201Cregional or national benefits\u201D, page 6, line 11, it inserts \u201C, in line with existing environmental protections and democratic processes.\u201D\u2014in line with existing environmental protections and democratic processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003ENow, why is that important? Because, in the words of the other interested Minister, Shane Jones, we have far-ranging projects here, across a multitude of regions, across a multitude of activities, across the country. It is important that we have some basic principles of environmental protection upheld and considered, as well as democratic processes, because, as in the case of the Waimate waste incinerator\u2014and I just speak to that as an example\u2014this is an instance where you have a community that has roundly expressed their opposition to this project. The local council has expressed opposition. Even the local member of Parliament has expressed opposition. On every count, if this project is to have any licence at a public level, at a democratic level, it should have to take into account the feeling at that local level.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EUnder the current iteration of the purpose of the bill, there would be no requirement, there would be no hint of a requirement, under principles of democratic participation for those making determinations on a given project\u2014[Time expired] Madam Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220170702d89c2473a8d58352a0dcbc987\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Steve Abel. It would be helpful if members that were speaking to amendments tonight would actually quote the number of the amendment, because there\u2019s quite a number of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c16716be51f4e0f8c531ad70a33364a\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s Amendment Paper 148; thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s vital, in terms of any show of respect to principles of democratic participation, that those people in the region where the project is going to occur should have some right to have a say\u2014by whatever means. There is an exclusion already, in the fast-track legislation, of public participation. The public will not be allowed to make submissions, but there must be a taking into account of that. That is what this amendment would facilitate. That after \u201Cregional or national benefits\u201D, the Minister inserts the wording \u201C, in line with existing environmental protections and democratic processes.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThis also clarifies that those pieces of legislation, or those processes under the existing Resource Management Act which set in place the conditions on which any project should proceed, are going to have a framework for their being applied to any given consent given through the fast track. The framework is facilitated by recognition of existing environmental protections, thereby a determining panel can search out the precedents set in previous consents by existing protections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThis is the sort of simple and principled amendment to the actual purpose of the bill, which takes us some little way towards making this a piece of legislation that is not merely a wrecking ball through the environment, an utter disregard for everything that has been established over the preceding decades in terms of our attitude towards protection of the environment, an utter disregard for all pieces of legislation that pertain to the environment. You are going to rule them out through this legislation, but this simple clause would allow there to be some recognition and some acknowledgment that existing environmental protections and democratic processes matter. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022a97223f7d68741b98a3dfa0f8b291527\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a97223f7d68741b98a3dfa0f8b291527\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I thought I\u2019d just take the time to respond to a few of the questions and comments raised so far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn terms of the Hon Dr Megan Woods\u2019 comments around Trans-Tasman Resources, perhaps if I answer that particular project in the way that I\u2019ll answer all of them, which is that the Government ran a robust process in order to select projects\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f2e1330b3044f4d9f4c83504985eb82\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: Your mates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a73869ea3bf43b1875973cf8efd3241\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014for inclusion in the bill. You need to be careful about making comments like that, Ms Brooking. It\u2019s the second Labour Party MP this week in Parliament to say scurrilous things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EMinisters deliberately insulated themselves from the advisory group process and we set up an advisory group made up of experts who then facilitated a process with the Ministry for the Environment to have a look at projects. It\u2019s fair to say, we were inundated with applications\u2014too many, if anything. There are even now people who are upset that they\u2019re not listed in the fast track, which I think speaks to the wider issue about the stultification of our economy through red and green tape, but that\u2019s why we\u2019re here, for the fast track. The Trans-Tasman Resources project, like all of them that were listed in the schedule, were recommended by the panel and therefore it will go into the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe second point to make is a really important one, which is the bill, as introduced, essentially expedited the granting of consents and allowed the troika, as we became known for some time\u2014myself, the Hon Shane Jones, and Simeon Brown\u2014to, essentially, decide the consents. It\u2019s fair to say that that was a bold call. That was pushing the boat out, so to speak, through the hydro dam. The Government decided, after listening to comments, including from the Opposition and others in civil society, that instead we would revert back to a model similar to the Labour Government\u2019s COVID19 fast track, where the panels made the decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThis bill does not grant consent for projects and there has been this constant call from some that sort of fast track is automatic consent. It doesn\u2019t do that. In relation to the 149 listed projects, it will allow those project sponsors to apply to the Environmental Protection Agency for referral to the expert panels and it sets up a more generic pathway for other projects and other project sponsors to apply. It doesn\u2019t grant consent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn response to the Hon David Parker\u2019s issues, there is the ability for environmental NGOs to be involved. I\u2019m advised that the Minister may direct parties to be consulted. The panel has discretion to invite people. In response to some of his points around conservation, it is true in the bill that relevant statutory bodies can be invited to comment on conservation appeals\u2014for example, New Zealand Fish \u0026amp; Game Council, conservation boards, the New Zealand Conservation Authority, and the New Zealand Game Animal Council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn response to Mr Abel\u2019s point around the Waimate waste-to-energy project, he seems very worked up that the local council is opposed to it. Well, the local council, as per the bill, must be invited to comment on the bill. This idea that\u2019s sort of been put about that there is no ability for anyone to be involved and there\u2019s no ability for the council, no ability for the public is just not accurate. It is true that there are fewer participation rights and less ability than in the past as per the Resource Management Act, for example, but that is precisely the point. That is one of the purposes of the bill. That is why the bill has been drafted the way it is. Members can oppose that, but the Government stands firm in our proposition that this will make it easier to build things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5aec6b4792f4f5189d86cd6aa4cd193\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Now, I just say at this stage, I\u2019ve been listening to the debate from the start. I say this every time we come into this, but if members are prepared to ask questions and the Minister answers them, then I\u2019m happy to stick with a line of questioning and then move to someone else. You also heard the Speaker say there\u2019s going to be plenty of time in this debate. Everyone will get that opportunity, I can assure you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5481afce8d74ea5a3f4cbf9e742879d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5481afce8d74ea5a3f4cbf9e742879d\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I will take you up on that kind offer, sir, and see if the Minister is of a mind to follow that approach as well. I am still on clause 3, the purpose clause, and that is because the Minister has rejected my Amendment Paper\u00A0129 and gave some speeches about the imaginary difference between private and public projects in his mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EMy question to that point is: does he consider that that whole point would be fixed\u2014any distinctions wouldn\u2019t have to be made\u2014if, of course, there was no Schedule 2 and no listed projects, as suggested by the Hon David Parker in the debate at the outset about whether or not the amendment bill should be set aside or not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022303a8c7f4f9a4c8fa77705a4fbab0657\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022303a8c7f4f9a4c8fa77705a4fbab0657\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E Well, of course that is true, but the Government wants there to be a schedule. That\u2019s why we\u2019ve moved the schedule and that\u2019s why we\u2019ve listed the projects. Of course, that point is true, but it doesn\u2019t take you very far, because we don\u2019t agree with that proposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022db42cf8d64fc4990a1d8a7613048ac99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db42cf8d64fc4990a1d8a7613048ac99\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. Still on the purpose clause, has the Minister considered the submissions of Straterra and the advice of officials that there should be in a clause, a subclause, referring to the environment\u2014in my amendment, I\u2019ve called it \u201Csustainable management\u201D; it could be something else\u2014and the submission that without such a reference and because of the mechanisms of the Act that I\u2019ve already talked about, that this will enable cowboys?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8ee1624891c44ca883f964bedaea599\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8ee1624891c44ca883f964bedaea599\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E Well, \u201Ccowboys\u201D is a pejorative term; so, no, I don\u2019t accept that. I\u2019m not even sure what the member means by that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226a5491cb1e94638bf7a3eae85745edc\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: The member calls them friends.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d06c21936cc54cefb919865494fc7b2e\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: So, no. Well, again, you know that former Minister needs to be careful about the language she uses around that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019ve already said, we\u2019re sort of re-litigating the point around the purpose clause. It\u2019s not our intention to add a reference to sustainable management, as the member suggests, to the purpose clause. We\u2019re comfortable with the purpose clause as it is because it does what it says on the tin, which is to \u201Cfacilitate the delivery of \u2026 projects [of] significant regional [and] national [significance].\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not to say that the environment is not important\u2014it is important\u2014and there\u2019s a variety of mechanisms that are scattered throughout the bill in order to give effect to environmental considerations; make sure that the conditions upon which the projects we are talking about will be done in an environmentally friendly way, or at least a way that takes account of the environmental effects of particular projects. That would vary, obviously, depending on the particular project being talked about, but the Government has worked hard to make sure that all of those considerations are factored into the decision-making process throughout the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u00222c9bd2f2069b4252a8415143d472d03b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c9bd2f2069b4252a8415143d472d03b\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Of course, what the Minister just talked about I will want to ask questions on when we get to Part 2 and, particularly, the schedules, where I very strongly disagree with the Minister when he says that there are environmental protections there when this purpose is given the greatest weight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, I have a further question for the Minister to consider, and then I\u2019ll be done on this particular point. We\u2019ve heard a lot from the Prime Minister\u2014and we heard it in question time again\u2014that the Opposition should be supporting this bill because it\u2019s going to be good for climate change, because it\u2019s going to enable renewable generation, and, of course, he then doesn\u2019t mention any of the other projects. Given that great commitment to renewable energy generation and given the difficulties that the Minister has referred to already about the ownership models of many of our generators\u2014some Government-owned, some part Government-owned, some private-owned, some council-owned\u2014would he consider putting in a specific reference just to fast tracking renewable electricity generation, rather than specifically naming them project by project, and being clear about that in the purpose clause? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00220b5be569b3f24f3089064b5877124d74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b5be569b3f24f3089064b5877124d74\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E No. The projects listed in the schedule are renewable projects. There\u2019s a whole mixture of solar; from memory, there\u2019s some wind; and there\u2019s a whole variety of different projects which are really, really important. Without relitigating the point, we\u2019ve an energy shortage in this country, and anyone who knows anything about the energy industry will tell you that one of the reasons why it\u2019s so difficult to fill that gap, or that shortage, is resource consenting. It takes for ever to get consents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s not to say, by the way, that renewable projects are in and of themselves extremely popular. For example, there are plenty of people up and down the country who\u00A0are opposed to solar farms, including the Environmental Defence Society, which used as a paradigmatic example of why this bill was, apparently, a bad idea that it might fast track a solar development down South. There are plenty of developments over the years, without relitigating all of them, that members in this House\u2014including two former energy Ministers who are in the House\u2014know have been held up for years, and they\u2019re renewable. Actually, in a funny sort of way, for quite a long time it was probably easier to get a consent for a coal-fired power station or a gas station than it has been for wind farms\u2014or geothermal, in particular, which is one that has really struggled to get consent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EAnyway, without relitigating the point, the answer is, no, we\u2019re not going to do that. One of the reasons why we\u2019re trying to get on the fast track is to get these projects away so we can get on and fill this energy shortage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022dfe259b0e19f4ca0a8139daf4fa7c95c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dfe259b0e19f4ca0a8139daf4fa7c95c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman. A question for the Minister in the chair: he said one of the problems that New Zealand\u2019s energy sector faces that this bill is seeking to rectify is the fact that it takes so long to get a consent for a renewable energy project. Could the Minister, please, tell the committee how many megawatts of consented but unbuilt renewable energy projects there are in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022c664296bb765494f99b6ad3a3dbfbd43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c664296bb765494f99b6ad3a3dbfbd43\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E Well, it\u2019s nothing to do with the bill, but I\u2019m happy to answer it. As the member Megan Woods knows, there are thousands of megawatts that are consented but unbuilt, but, as she and I have had discussions about before, (a) some of those projects will likely never be built, because they\u2019re not economic in the current form they are in, or the consents have expired or they are very old conditions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f956b0ae7804eb1915b404474d36f20\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: No, they\u2019re currently consented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4287094dfef46cfbe488df75ef57d76\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: They are currently consented, but just because something is consented, it doesn\u2019t necessarily mean that it gets built. The point is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c0ffb7be8d342b591a4fd78a95955d7\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: No, but it\u2019s not the consent that\u2019s the problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224db697e28416497c88151d202725c381\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, but as I\u2019ve just said, the conditions on the consent may render the project so uneconomic that it may never be built. The point is you need a massive pipeline of thousands of megawatts of consented pathways into the future. It is impossible to build that pipeline under our current Resource Management Act (RMA) settings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not just me who thinks this, by the way. In fact, under the previous Government, the Infrastructure Commission commissioned a report, done by Sense Partners, from memory\u2014I think it was 2022\u2014which makes the point that under our current environmental resource consent settings, it is impossible to meet the electrification pathway that we could otherwise be on as a country, in which we transform the economy through mass electrification of industrial heat and transport and all of the things that we all want to do in this Parliament. It is impossible to do that with the current RMA. There is widespread consensus around that. The answer is to fix the RMA. I agree with you; fast-track is an important part of that. It\u2019s not the only answer, but it\u2019s an important part of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00220bbaed54ece24bdaa6818a43d4b8f492\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220bbaed54ece24bdaa6818a43d4b8f492\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Of course, the Labour Party fully acknowledges the importance of having renewable electricity projects in fast-track legislation. In fact, I think we put through our fast-track legislation more than the equivalent of two Clyde Dams\u2019 worth of renewable energy projects. My question for the Minister in the chair is: how many of the consented but not built renewable energy projects fall under the umbrella of \u201Cunlikely to be built\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe fully acknowledge the need to have a large pipeline of projects that come through and to be continually filling up that pipeline. That is exactly why we set up our COVID fast-track legislation to be able to do that. But it is possible, as we demonstrated, to not completely ignore the environment when you\u2019re doing this\u2014to have proper environmental protections in there. The Minister is claiming that one of the reasons we need to do this is to keep filling the pipeline, because there are so many consents that are there that can\u2019t be built, because they may be out of date, or whatever\u2014what is the number of that? What is the problem that he is working to rectify?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec9c3014baab49d0bd44a9fa2e7ac0a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec9c3014baab49d0bd44a9fa2e7ac0a8\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It\u2019s been some time since I\u2019ve been seeking to take a call on this, and I want to speak to the purpose clause. As we\u2019ve discussed earlier, we have had an unprecedented decision here, with the Clerk\u2019s Office and the Chair\u00A0previously ruling the Government\u2019s Amendment Paper out of order, and then it was back in order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EWhat we have here is a clause in Part 1 that certainly is presenting some problems and some challenges to us, as we\u2019ve heard, and I think can do with some improvement. I think I have a solution for the Minister because we do want to give assurance to the community that if we are going to have to live with this dog-awful legislation, we can at least make some improvements to it and make it something that will deliver some benefit to the communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll refer back to the Minister\u2019s claim that the Waimate incineration plant, the council which opposes it can simply be invited to discuss this with the fast-track committee. In fact, the council, iwi, the school, and the local community have asked it to be removed from the fast-track legislation because this is clearly a case of direct private benefits in a public bill. The council recognises that and they want it taken out; so do iwi. This is just one example\u2014one example\u2014and there are so, so many more examples.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EI have an amendment, Amendment Paper 146, which proposes that \u201CIn clause 3, after \u2018delivery of\u2019 (page 6, line 10), insert \u2018public\u2019.\u201D This Amendment Paper amends the Fast-track Approvals Bill to ensure that only public infrastructure that has a public good\u2014not private development\u2014is included in the purpose of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s like a \u201Cget out of jail free\u201D card for the Minister. Instead of brassing off regional Aotearoa, rural communities; instead of dumping waste to toxin plants in out-of-the-way places; instead of digging up our natural resources, our coal, our parks, our conservation estate, the Minister could look to the public benefit. And this is what this amendment proposes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000866\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a really simple amendment, but it gives the Minister a \u201Cget out of jail free\u201D card. I\u2019d invite the Minister to consider it and make some hay with this. Let\u2019s at least improve what is a really awful bill with something good to make sure that we get some public benefit out of this. Certainly I do want to see more State control in renewable electricity generation and I do want to see more State control of our assets like bridges and like ports. I want to see public good. I want to see them delivering for our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000867\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EThis gives us the opportunity, and it gives the Minister the opportunity that he wants the same thing. It gives the Minister a way of saying, \u201CI\u2019m not just here to provide for my donors or the private interest; I\u2019m here to provide for the community.\u201D, and that\u2019s the invitation that I\u2019d put to the Minister. There is a really clear amendment here. It is Amendment Paper 146 and it asks the Minister to insert \u201Cpublic\u201D in clause 3 after \u201Cdelivery of\u201D to ensure that we are building public benefit infrastructure that has a public good, not private development\u2014and it\u2019s public infrastructure. I\u2019d like the Minister to respond. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00223671e4bf13814eb6b00c5323c9c8ac1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223671e4bf13814eb6b00c5323c9c8ac1f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E Well, firstly, I\u2019ve given about 10 minutes about the illusory distinction between public and private. The member should have listened, so I don\u2019t intend to relitigate that, because I\u2019ve dealt with that issue at length. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESecondly, I won\u2019t repeat what the member said in his speech, but it is against the Standing Orders to imply, directly or otherwise, that a member is doing something influenced by donors or other outside interests. I know the member is new, but he shouldn\u2019t do that, and I take offence at that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210f14a31ac5c4839b2bb1f05bb9127c2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, also, I remind the Minister in the chair that that\u2019s a job for the Chair, and was noting that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1f89b8904b54619ada4fad5bf1fc00d\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a good point, sir. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Sorry, my apologies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022df4a61e71c6e485c92d5010fded45108\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df4a61e71c6e485c92d5010fded45108\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00222963ab012c0b4d2eb829ffe142cf40c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222963ab012c0b4d2eb829ffe142cf40c0\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Duncan Webb, mate!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c119a53692754b2f9affa244e39a5e5f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Duncan Webb. And it\u2019s only 9 o\u2019clock!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000875\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022375faf59896c4729a160f7ca412db644\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora. I\u2019m interested that the Minister responsible for RMA Reform chose to stand up and make that statement, given that the media is full on with statements about donors in this bill. It\u2019s in the public domain. I\u2019ve spoken about it in this Chamber before, and so we should. But I have two questions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000876\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269b1ec52eab74294a8ffcd247b72197f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I just warn members to be very careful about going towards individuals\u2014it is where you will start to get some kickback from the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000877\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274bba70d3fc74b06b28233fb23c95ca0\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Unrelated to that point\u2014not for the Minister to tell us what our debates are\u2014is two distinct points. One is: do we know who the people on this fast-track list are, and, in particular, who the ultimate owners of the private entities are? There are three ways in which I\u2019d like to know this. I\u2019d really like to know that the Government has done its due diligence and know who actually owns these projects. Firstly, there are a number of limited companies, and that\u2019s really normal; nothing concerning about that, in and of itself. What I want to know is: has the Government gone through and tracked back to find out who the owners are, to make sure that there\u2019s transparency there?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000878\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWhich brings me to my second point. There are numerous limited partnerships on this fast-track list\u2014Beachlands South Ltd Partnership, to name one; Blackmans Creek Holdings Ltd No. 1 Limited Partnership. Now, one of the troubling aspects of limited partnerships in New Zealand is that general partners are secret\u2014that there is no public register of the general partners in an unlimited partnership. What I want to know is: in respect of each of the limited\u00A0partnerships there, has the Government required transparency so that we know who is actually getting on the list? Who are the parties not only who, on this side of the committee, we argue, are getting a private benefit from this legislation, but also who are expected to complete this project\u2014whatever it may be\u2014in a responsible and compliant manner? That\u2019s just good due diligence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000879\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI also note there\u2019s one there in respect of a development in Rangiora, a residential development of 780 dwellings, and it\u2019s just Ben Dormer. Now, it may be that Ben Dormer is actually the person, but he\u2019s listed as an authorised person, and it\u2019s not clear to me\u2014and the Minister may be able to clarify\u2014whether that means he is the owner of the development itself; I mean the owner, in law, of the property. That\u2019s my first point: transparency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000880\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe second point, which is quite distinct and it occurred to me as the Hon David Parker spoke, is that this bill has a number of projects in the South Island. I\u2019ve read it before, and I was reading again the Ng\u0101i Tahu Claims Settlement Act. That Act goes through and recognises grievances and sets out protections. Two struck me, in particular. It lists significant rivers\u2014rivers of significance; that is to say rivers of significance to Ng\u0101i Tahu, and te Hurunui River is one of them. The other thing it does\u2014and it does many, many more things, but just by way of example\u2014it identifies taonga species; species which are at risk and are of special value to Ng\u0101i Tahu. In respect of both of those things, as part of their settlement, Ng\u0101i Tahu were given particular rights to be consulted in things like these projects. Now, I can understand the Minister might say, \u201CWell, we are still able to do that.\u201D, but the contract in the\u00A0settlement bill was that you\u2019re obliged to do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000881\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EMy question is this: whether it is consistent with the Ng\u0101i Tahu Claims Settlement Bill, not only with its words but also with the good-faith obligation of the Crown to now not be obliged to consult on rivers of significance and on the impact on taonga species. I\u2019d really appreciate it if you could answer those two themed questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9f8e166a36943489b32748cb65faf49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000882\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9f8e166a36943489b32748cb65faf49\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I have some very specific questions for the Minister responsible for RMA Reform, so I\u2019ll just wait till he\u2019s finished his advice. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8ae6534d54342ebb756c9174fb31b60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000883\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8ae6534d54342ebb756c9174fb31b60\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re welcome to wait while the Minister is listening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000884\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022119b39fbc91342c78898fbb5819b6404\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Thank you for allowing us to step very carefully and deliberately through the bill, because that is of utmost importance. I\u2019m going to get really specifically to my amendment, which is Amendment Paper 147. I want to ask the Minister and hear from the Minister about where environmental outcomes actually sit within the purpose clause of the bill. It\u2019s a really genuine question, because this amendment proposes that after regional or national benefits\u2014and this is page 6, line 11 of the bill\u2014we actually insert a part of the clause that says, \u201Cwhile continuing to promote the sustainable management of natural and physical resources.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000885\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EI\u2019m interested in the Minister\u2019s consideration of this, because this is not a high bar. This is not talking about explicit protection of all environments everywhere. We\u2019ve seen that with the Resource Management Act (RMA). We\u2019ve seen that the evidence, time and time again, in every domain report that the Ministry for the Environment and Stats New Zealand are putting out across air, ocean, fresh water, biodiversity, is that our environment is in decline. That is an undisputable fact, so why is it seen as such an unimaginable thing that we have a very basic reference to the natural environment in the purpose clause, again, given the RMA has still been enabling development and, essentially, the decline of the environment? Is it that the Minister has such a low expectation of the operations of these companies and the activities that they will carry out, if ultimately approved under fast track, that he thinks that they cannot meet very basic bars of environmental enhancement, of environmental protection of some form within their development?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EI wanted to vocalise one of the submissions that we heard at the Environment Committee. It was from a housing developer in Selwyn who had been working over many years very closely with Ng\u0101i Tahu and the Selwyn District Council and Environment Canterbury to get houses built very efficiently and effectively in Selwyn while not destroying the environment. He talked about how it\u2019s been really simple. It\u2019s been good processes. What is wrong with having a very basic reference in the purpose clause that actually does, in some very basic way, provide for environmental considerations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed55991516a84aa5a2509d5b6e49e0e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000887\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed55991516a84aa5a2509d5b6e49e0e6\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll just deal with Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s issues. I\u2019m advised that the legislation does not override the Ng\u0101i Tahu Claims Settlement Act, so the Treaty obligations as per that Act remain extant. In relation to his\u2014I found it a somewhat confusing point, but I think he is, basically, making a point around how do we know who the people are. I\u2019m advised by the officials that all of the companies or people listed in Schedule 2 are either the owner of the project or have an access arrangement for it, so then it deals with his point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe more substantive contribution was made by Lan Pham. I won\u2019t relitigate what I\u2019ve said; the Government is not going to change the purpose clause, for the reasons that I\u2019ve already given. I was intrigued by her remarks that the Resource Management Act (RMA) is an enabling piece of legislation. That was the view when it was passed in 1991. I think, actually\u2014and I don\u2019t think I\u2019m going too far as to say this\u2014the RMA has been one of the biggest public policy failures in New Zealand history, because the RMA is almost directly responsible for the fact that over the last 20 years we have had the fastest house price growth in the OECD.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe Infrastructure Commission, again, has done really interesting research on this that shows that since the inception of the Town and Country Planning Act 1977, which layered on zoning and introduced the modern-day form of zoning in town and country planning\u2014the clue\u2019s in the name. Then, accelerated by the RMA in 1991, we have endured\u2014I was going to say enjoyed\u2014extremely high house price growth, rental price growth, and have now the affliction of a housing crisis that, in a country that has a landmass the size of the United Kingdom but yet only 5 million people in it, it should not have to endure. It is one of the great tragedies of New Zealand history over the last 30 years that kids live in cars and motels, and students and young families pay exorbitant rents, and people can\u2019t get their feet on to the property ladder, because we have not zoned enough land\u2014in a country the size of the UK. I\u2019m intrigued by the idea\u2014what\u2019s that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000890\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec8426b1f0d14e0cbd21a8674d5756f6\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: You brought the RMA back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000891\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ac3ea5d796a41dca8ba780f8dd31a98\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, while we fix it fundamentally and we change the fast track. The Natural and Built Environment Act would have been way, way, way worse. That\u2019s why we got rid of it: because it was a 10-year transition window and everyone was going to have to start getting on with it. The member knows exactly why.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000892\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI\u2019m intrigued by the comment that the RMA has been enabling. Actually, the RMA has helped directly contribute to the infrastructure crisis. Again, research shows over a billion dollars spent per year on consenting costs for infrastructure. It\u2019s the $785 million of road cones\u2014that\u2019s the health and safety stuff. It\u2019s the same when it comes to resource consenting: endless time and money for Bell Gully and Russell McVeagh and Buddle Findlay and all of the top-tier law firms to spend time arguing, up and down the country in councils and the Environment Court and the Court of Appeal and beyond\u20142\u00BD years to find a Supreme Court decision about whether or not the East West Link can go ahead. Endless arcane arguments about what the word \u201Cavoid\u201D means. We\u2019ve spent 20 years of jurisprudence on the word \u201Cavoid\u201D, in the coastal policy statement on King Salmon, and all that other malarkey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EPart of the problem with this country is a myopic focus on the environment at the expense of nearly everything else. We are humans; we live in an environment. We need houses, we need roads, we need rail, we need public transport, we need renewable energy, we need mines, and we need quarries. It is nearly impossible to consent a quarry. We have a shortage of aggregate\u2014you can\u2019t consent a quarry. The further a quarry is from a road you try and build, the costs go up astronomically. This idea that the RMA has been enabling\u2014I\u2019m sorry, that idea is fanciful. The RMA is a straitjacket on the growth of this economy, which could be so much wealthier, so much more prosperous, and so much more renewable and clean and green, if we could only untrammel ourselves from the straitjacket of dumb planning laws that have a myopic focus on environmental effects above all else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000894\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWe are humans; we live in an environment. We should take advantage of it and protect it, but it does not mean we need to have a myopic focus on every single environmental effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002259305e12e9864c3c97e58e25e4c3aff6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000895\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259305e12e9864c3c97e58e25e4c3aff6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I guess that\u2019s the end of my quick question, quick answer attempt, but I will warn the Minister: doing a general debate speech as part of a committee stage does open lots of areas for questioning. But be it on his own head.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00224314fd81b3af4eeb94cec08b52a055b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224314fd81b3af4eeb94cec08b52a055b3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the call, Mr Chairman. I will endeavour to cover a number of points that I\u2019d like to hear the Minister respond to. Can I for a start say that I agree with much of what he said in the last speech, but not everything, and I agree that one of the reasons house prices went so high was having too strict rules around land markets. We addressed that as a Government in part, with the cooperation of that member\u2014initially, without that member\u2014through the National Policy Statement on Urban Development, and then, through the mixed-use zone introduced by an amendment to the Resource Management Act (RMA) and through our version of fast track, which consented thousands of houses. We don\u2019t disagree with that; we\u2019re just saying that in respect of this, you\u2019re going a step too far by excluding environmental concerns to the extent that you are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000897\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of the points the Minister made in an earlier contribution in respect of geothermal\u2014with respect, that\u2019s a wee bit cute, because the longest period for those geothermal consents relate to renewals, and they were appallingly long. Some renewals took seven years, but once you applied for a renewal, your old consent kept running anyway, and so there was no incentive on either the applicant or the council to get on with it. In truth, since the central North Island came up with rules relating to field pressure, it has been relatively easy to consent geothermal, and I don\u2019t think we\u2019ve had a problem consenting geothermal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000898\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EMy first question relates to the pass rate, if you like, under the existing fast track, which didn\u2019t override the RMA, the Conservation Act, the Wildlife Act, etc., but, despite that, 95\u00A0percent of the applications were granted approvals. In fact, the last time I counted, about a hundred approvals had been given, and other people have recounted the breadth of those. I would have thought having five being turned down is not too bad. My understanding was that one of the ones turned down was a wind farm that the consent panel\u2014and, I think, rightly\u2014said was in the wrong place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000899\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of the aquaculture one that was turned down, did the Minister consider whether a spatial planning approach would have been preferable there to dealing with these on a consent by consent basis? We have had a problem consenting aquaculture in New Zealand, and there is room for it in some places; we just don\u2019t seem to get approval to put it anywhere because everyone gets turned down. That\u2019s my second question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000900\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EMy next question relates to the exclusion of people having a right of participation, and their proxies, on the environmental front, and I want to read an email here that I have in respect of the application which I think is listed in Schedule 2, on page 123, relating to Matakanui Gold Ltd. It\u2019s the Bendigo-Ophir Gold Project to \u201CEstablish, operate, and remediate an open pit and underground gold mine\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000901\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, for the benefit of members, I want to put this in context. The Macraes Mine is the second-largest hard rock goldmine in Australasia, and Australasia has some big mines. This proposed goldmine in Central Otago, which is called Santana, even though the application here is by Matakanui Gold Ltd\u2014it must be one of their companies\u2014is bigger. It\u2019s bigger. This is the\u2014sorry, my laptop has just closed. If the\u2014sorry, I\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000902\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f73972c1de847288aa4709484b1b20a\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: The password is \u201CLabour\u201D\u2014no? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000903\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222222c23d04434e718da2ceafb244f1fc\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right! I had this letter come in from a Hayden Johnston\u2014and he\u2019s happy for me to read it out\u2014from Tarras Vineyards Ltd. He\u2019s on the Bendigo Loop Road, and you\u2019ll see that Bendigo is one of the areas that\u2019s listed in the schedule: \u201CThe reason for this email is I hold a resource consent hard fought for at the Environment Court to operate The Canyon\u201D\u2014which is a wedding venue\u2014\u201Cat Tarras Vineyards, located 5 kilometres from the proposed new greenfields opencast goldmine listed in Schedule 2. Even the talk of a mine next door has resulted in lost venue bookings, and I just lost $800,000 from an investor, with the sale and purchase agreement falling over at due diligence, directly because of fears about\u00A0the effects of the goldmine. I\u2019m very concerned the expert panel will fail to identify and consider the effects on my business and the local community because my title isn\u2019t immediately adjacent to the mine site.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000904\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI suggest to the Minister that this is an example of how there are interests to be balanced here. In respect of projects like this mine, which would be bigger than Macraes, which is already the second-biggest hard rock mine in Australasia, how can it be justified that that application for something that vast could proceed without public input from the likes of that person there, who says he\u2019s already suffered an $800,000 loss? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022268cee5a764445158b40a0aa3447f68c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000905\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022268cee5a764445158b40a0aa3447f68c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I think the Hon David Parker makes a good point. The laptop issue distracted me, but I think I heard him say that he was an adjoining landowner. Adjoining landowners are\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000906\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022913bf37f3a9c4c35a8d434a7cd5a8d2e\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: No, he\u2019s not; he\u2019s 5 kilometres.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000907\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224737dec32a1340139a9d5d370d7ff0e6\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, OK. Well, there is the ability for people affected by projects like that to be part of the expert panel process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ead0d39f966a43cb8790fd80cb182823\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019ve got no right to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000909\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243ea980821324b40898eb8635d92aadd\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: It would be my expectation that someone in that situation would be involved in that process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00227e80b721ea6c4704bc45945c0a422518\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e80b721ea6c4704bc45945c0a422518\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. Thank you for the opportunity to speak to Amendment Paper 130 in name of the Hon Peeni Henare. The Minister will have had a chance to consider this. It\u2019s about clause 3, which is the purpose clause, which Opposition members are still on, because, as the Hon Rachel Brooking pointed out at the beginning of this debate, the purpose clause is in fact the part which Labour members have raised real concerns about as being a real departure in this legislation from other empowering provisions like it in the past. New clause 3A, proposed by Amendment Paper 130, is to bring this in line with other empowering environmental legislation, to introduce the requirement for people exercising public power under this bill to do so with recognition to Te Tiriti o Waitangi. That is a power that is well understood. The first provisions like this were introduced in 1975 and 1986 in legislation before the House. They are well understood in our law and in practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000911\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EMy questions to the Minister\u2014there are four. The first is in relation to: given that there is not a provision like this already in the bill, what considerations have the Minister and other Ministers responsible for this legislation given to the Cabinet Manual 2017 guidelines on how our Cabinet Ministers should give effect to Te Tiriti o Waitangi? I\u2019ll read him the part that I want his response to. The Cabinet Manual 2017 says, \u201CThe law may sometimes accord a special recognition [for] M\u0101ori rights and interests such as those covered by Article\u00A02 of the Treaty. And in many other cases the law and its processes should be determined by the general recognition in Article 3 of the Treaty that M\u0101ori belong, as citizens, to the whole community. In some situations, autonomous M\u0101ori institutions have a role within the wider constitutional political system. In other circumstances, the model provided by the Treaty of Waitangi, of two parties negotiating and agreeing with one another, is appropriate.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000912\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EMy question is about what consideration he gave to his role as a Minister, when that is a well-established constitutional convention of the excise of public power, and why new clause\u00A03A, as I have proposed it, does not exist in the legislation already, given what the Cabinet Manual says. My next question will be about the Cabinet Office circular with guidance on these clauses\u2014it was in 2017. The question after that will be on the Legislative Design and Advisory Committee\u2019s advice and guidelines\u2014those are the guidelines from 2021. The fourth question is around his obligations under the Public Service Act 2020.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u00225a89aa24cf964b7997955ee18c2da36c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000913\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a89aa24cf964b7997955ee18c2da36c\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ve got a couple of questions for the Minister, and also some well-crafted amendments, which I\u2019m sure you\u2019ll appreciate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000914\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EThe first thing is that there is a real concern about the destruction and the reputational damage that this bill is proposing to do to our region. You will be aware of our views in Taranaki regarding seabed mining and the inclusion of Trans-Tasman Resources, who have lost, as you\u2019ve heard and I\u2019m sure you\u2019re aware, in the High Court; they have lost in the Court of Appeal, they have lost in the Supreme Court\u2014pretty much lost in every court that exists in Aotearoa\u2014because they could not prove without doubt the damage that the discharge that they would do from a marine consent would create to our environment and, indeed, our moana. We are living with the fact that they\u2019ve been given this reincarnation through this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EI guess some of the questions that we have for you are that that decision was mooted on the basis that they would bring billions of dollars to the New Zealand economy. We\u2019ve recently seen Trans-Tasman Resources backtrack on that statement\u2014in fact, backtrack so badly that they had to do a formal retraction to the Australian Stock Exchange. That is extremely concerning for us, especially given that you have also endorsed them coming in. Again, I respect what you\u2019re saying. There\u2019s a process that they\u2019re meant to go through, and I will pick that up. We have lost the sight of windfarms and sustainable renewable energy which would have been much better supported and welcomed by the Taranaki community\u2014people who have decided to take their investment elsewhere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000916\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve seen a company that lost in every court and that is unwanted by locals\u2014in fact, so bad that they decided not to go through the decision-making committee (DMC) process that the court had proposed they could and instead ducked through this bill. One of the couple of questions we have for the Minister is: what is New Zealand\u2019s experience in seabed mining? What is the cost that the new expert panel will be bearing and what will taxpayers expect to bear, given they already have three or four court cases, three DMCs, two Environmental Protection Authority meetings? What is the experience of New Zealand Government officials\u2014in fact, Ministry for the Environment\u2014in dealing with 30 years of discharge of sediment from 50 million tonnes of seabed mining for 30 years consecutively?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000917\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EIn the court case, there were two rulings particularly that I would like to ask the Minister about. The exclusive economic zone legislation, which is, effectively, the Resource Management Act on water, which your Government endorsed in 2013-17, and then also section 10(1)(b), which talks about the marine discharge\u2014that that would need to be monitored, because that is, effectively, what seabed mining\u2019s destroying. It\u2019s not the mining so much as the discharge created by the mining. The Supreme Court particularly made a ruling on section 12(c), which refers to Treaty of Waitangi and the principles which must be given effect to. How are you going to ensure that the Treaty of Waitangi is given effect to in this decision to bring Trans-Tasman Resources and, in fact, keep the confidence of the multiple iwi and sectors, including fishing, that will continue to take this to court? I guess the amendments that we\u2019ve had, in conclusion for just this part\u2014I haven\u2019t gotten past the title and clause 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000918\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EFor your benefit, we ran a poll and asked rangatahi what they would like to call this bill, and we would like to replace, in clause 1, \u201CFast-track Approvals Act\u201D with \u201CEnvironmental Ram Raid Act\u201D. I think they were extremely ingenious in how they came up with that name.\u00A0We\u2019ve also got another amendment, and, sorry, through the Chair, it hasn\u2019t got a number, but it is on the Table. It has been tabled. In clause 3, we have asked for an amendment to\u00A0the Fast-track Approvals Bill that aligns with the bill\u2019s purpose and the Crown\u2019s obligations under Te Tiriti o Waitangi. We\u2019re asking, for clause 3, after \u201Cnational benefits\u201D, to insert \u201Cwhile upholding Te Tiriti o Waitangi, safeguarding M\u0101ori social, cultural, and environmental\u201D\u2014[Time expired] Mr Chair, I\u2019d like to carry on, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000919\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231639c3c9a254bb5bd12c8d33931fe34\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Debbie Ngarewa-Packer\u2014and can I just, before you do: avoid the use of the word \u201Cyou\u201D. It means that we are actually keeping it on the bill rather than the personal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000920\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224560d8065ce94314ba58bc643e403da1\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER\u003C/span\u003E: Ka pai. We would like to, in clause 3\u2014I\u2019ll just take it a little bit slower. In clause 3, we\u2019ve made an amendment. Just to remind people, clause 1\u2014to replace \u201CFast-track Approvals Act\u201D with \u201CEnvironmental Ram Raid Act\u201D. And, in clause 3, after \u201Cnational benefits\u201D, insert \u201Cwhile upholding Te Tiriti o Waitangi and safeguarding M\u0101ori social, cultural, and environmental wellbeing\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000921\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EThis amendment has been tabled\u2014again, to state it aligns the bill\u2019s purpose with the Crown\u2019s obligations under Te Tiriti o Waitangi and acknowledges the importance of considering M\u0101ori interests alongside development goals. Emphasising these values ensures long-term cultural and environmental sustainability. Now, the Minister will know from all experience that the amendments will align with, as I said earlier, section 12(c) that was ruled by not only the Court of Appeal but also the Supreme Court, which acknowledged the role of tangata whenua and mana whenua when there is activity done within our moana. These are settled iwi that certainly the Minister has stated they want to abide by.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000922\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EThe question in that final aspect is: what is the Minister going to do to ensure the obligations as determined in Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101ti Ruanui and Te Korowai o Ng\u0101ruahine are respected and upheld, and how is the Minister going to ensure that the confidence and the reputational damage that has come from allowing this type of activity, or the reliving of Trans-Tasman Resources to be able to come back to fruition\u2014particularly as we stated the huge disappointment that we have had to see wind turbines and wind companies leave, who actually were proposing to bring economic development to the region. They have not had to stand up in front of the Australian Stock Exchange and retract promises that they would make, and they have not had to renege on making promises to bring in a billion dollars to the New Zealand economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002243297cd514dd49529ccf6c20595ca00a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000923\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243297cd514dd49529ccf6c20595ca00a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E There\u2019s quite a lot to that contribution. I can\u2019t comment on the comments around the stock exchange. I end where the member ended, which is in relation to offshore wind. I think it\u2019s worth noting that there is great potential for offshore wind in New Zealand, but there isn\u2019t even a regulatory regime in place yet. The best estimates that I\u2019ve seen are that 2035, maybe a bit later, we could see the development of it. It would be subject to the economics of it. Actually, we\u2019ve got plenty of cheap energy in this country; it\u2019s just that the Resource Management Act makes it very difficult to get access to that cheap energy. I won\u2019t relitigate my long rant from 15\u00A0minutes ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000924\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to the Treaty, I would encourage the member Debbie Ngarewa-Packer to actually read the bill. Clause 6, which is the Treaty settlements clause: \u201CAll persons performing and exercising functions [and] powers, and duties \u2026 must act in a manner \u2026 consistent with \u2026 the obligations arising under existing Treaty settlements; \u2026 customary rights\u201D, and a variety of different protections around that, including Te Ture Whaimana, in clause 7. I\u2019d also encourage the member to read clause 4A around ineligible activities, and there\u2019s a variety of provisions there around M\u0101ori customary land. I\u2019d also encourage the member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf61962646284ceaa8ba61fe9d56c5dd\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what my amendment is: 4A.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000926\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdd9c2beff3d41b7b9a48e74a4343c18\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member needs to actually get familiar with the bill. I\u2019d\u00A0also encourage her to read clauses 18B, 19A, and 24WA, which impose a variety of obligations on decision makers and panels when it comes to the effect of Treaty settlements. I think we actually spent quite a considerable amount of time\u2014between myself; the Hon Shane Jones; the Minister for M\u0101ori Development, who\u2019s in the House, the Hon Tama Potaka\u2014working our way through some of the complex questions that the member raises. I think we\u2019ve done a really good job balancing the right interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022 data-id=\u0022178ade064da44b15a6052b3ef5046ef1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000927\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022178ade064da44b15a6052b3ef5046ef1\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. Thank you for the opportunity to add my comment in support of those who have already spoken in relation to the centrality of Te Tiriti o Waitangi and how it\u2019s missing from this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000928\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s disappointing to hear the focus on settled iwi and post-settlement governance entities (PSGEs), knowing that Te Tiriti o Waitangi obligations are beyond an entity and beyond a settlement. It is all-encompassing for all of our obligations for the betterment of New Zealand society and te iwi M\u0101ori as we\u2019re trying to move forward kia kotahi ai t\u0101tou. [so that we may be united.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000929\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EWhen I hear the emphasis on post-settlement governance entities leaving hap\u016B out, leaving marae voice out, and leaving whenua M\u0101ori voice out, I start to worry, because the amendments proposed by my learned colleagues from Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori and Labour are quite common sense. What we\u2019re seeking to do in these amendments, really, for anyone who\u2019s operating within this fast-track space is to give effect to the principles of Te Tiriti o Waitangi, and that is in Amendment Paper 130 by Peeni Henare. Then we have Debbie Ngarewa-Packer\u2019s amendment, where she is also suggesting that we should uphold Te Tiriti o Waitangi and safeguard M\u0101ori social, cultural, and environmental wellbeing. That\u2019s all common sense, really, you would think, in a Te Tiriti - based society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000930\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EThen, referring to my proposed amendment on Amendment Paper 152\u2014which is aligned in the same way as my whanaunga, my tung\u0101ne Peeni Henare\u2014it is about saying that anybody who is operating in this space needs to give effect to Te Tiriti. That protects all of us, and, in particular, those who are without Treaty settlements, those who may not have a Mana Whakahono \u0101 Rohe agreement, or those that may not have a marine and coastal area (MACA) takutai moana settlement. There are many M\u0101ori that need protection from fast track, and that\u2019s well beyond having a settled iwi framework.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000931\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EIn relation to what\u2019s being said, it\u2019s lovely that there\u2019s been consideration for our iwi entities\u2014absolutely. They have negotiated a settlement, which is important for their people, but there are many that are impacted in this space, and whenua M\u0101ori, in particular, need to add that, considering that public, community, and M\u0101ori in general are being blocked from the process of having their voice being heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000932\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EThese projects are happening in our k\u0101inga\u2014these projects are happening in our k\u0101inga. You can\u2019t say to te iwi M\u0101ori who are looking over the fence when you\u2019re digging up the papa moana to take the sand from out of our moana, or you\u2019re reigniting Northport, \u201COh no. No, no, you\u2019re not a settled iwi. Sorry, we can\u2019t talk to you. You\u2019re not allowed to be a part of the process.\u201D, because doesn\u2019t that undermine our fundamental agreement of Te Tiriti o Waitangi, whereby we are meant to have participation, whereby our rights are meant to be protected, and whereby, as the indigenous people of that specific whenua, we cannot be blocked out of this process? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EI contest anything that says that Te Tiriti o Waitangi should not be included, but also you limit and narrow the voice of M\u0101ori down to PSGEs\u2014those who have endorsement from the Crown\u2014and don\u2019t worry about the rest of us, eh? We only signed Te Tiriti o Waitangi, we\u2019re only uri of the signatories of He Whakaputanga; no, we don\u2019t get any rights because we haven\u2019t signed a settlement with the Crown!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000934\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EMana Whakahono \u0101 Rohe is limiting. Takutai moana\u2014oh, well, you know, you\u2019re repealing it. How many of us M\u0101ori are going to have to go back to the High Court? And then, you turn around and say, \u201COh no, it\u2019s only those that have negotiated a settlement.\u201D Well, kei hea te hap\u016B rangatiratanga m\u014D t\u0113n\u0101? [where is hap\u016B sovereignty for that?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s the point in having the stage 1 report of Te Paparahi o Te Raki, whereby our t\u016Bpuna said, \u201CWe did not cede our sovereignty as the tribes of Ng\u0101puhi.\u201D, and then we come here and then we see Te Tiriti o Waitangi being thrown out across legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000936\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EAroha mai, Mr Chair. I am taking a bit of a liberty because it\u2019s quite a passionate issue, Te Tiriti. I don\u2019t know whether you\u2019ve noticed that, but we had a h\u012Bkoi a couple of weeks ago and quite a few people are pukuriri. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000937\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EWe are giving voice to the centrality of Te Tiriti. It does need to broaden beyond post-settlement governance entities and those with the Mana Whakahono \u0101 Rohe but also those with MACA takutai moana rights. Oh, it\u2019s pretty small in terms of those who have gotten through that Crown-mandated pathway. Plenty of us aren\u2019t in that pathway, so where is our voice protected? Where is our voice, as marae and hap\u016B and those who are iwi mana whenua, whenua M\u0101ori? [iwi that have authority over land, M\u0101ori land?] Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7299b8fbcc845cfa19b210e8744286e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000938\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7299b8fbcc845cfa19b210e8744286e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I will just remind members that having a different member saying the same thing is still repetition. I\u2019m also saying that general debate speeches on both sides of the House are not helpful, because it means that we can broaden the debate out further. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u00228e87f6e427a24f1fad933f8acacf297f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000939\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e87f6e427a24f1fad933f8acacf297f\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I have a number of short questions for the Minister responsible for RMA Reform, but I\u2019m just going to say them all at once, knees and all that, and then I want to ask him some questions about his Amendment Paper and how we work through that. I might seek your guidance on that as well, Mr Chair, noting that I\u2019m still not on clause 4A, which is ineligible activities, and nowhere near Schedule 2, which I want to talk about and have amendments on. In that general debate, or long rant, depending on if it\u2019s the Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df69e2b8c7c34be5a2450c626cf67117\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, did you say you are on 4A, or you\u2019re not on 4A?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022deed7aef0a4d499698a83f1e1604705e\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: No, not yet\u2014not on 4A yet. I was just saying about the long rant, as the Minister called it. I want to ask a number of questions about that discussion on the Resource Management Act (RMA), and one is: does he acknowledge that this bill doesn\u2019t fix the fundamental timing and cost problem with the RMA, which is that when you compare the consenting time frames and cost to developers, which are far too high, the problem when you compare it internationally is with those smaller and medium sized projects, which, of course, are not covered by this bill because this is for large projects? That\u2019s the first question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000942\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWhat are his views on infrastructure funding in terms of slowing down housing development in this country? The Minister made the point that we are the same land size or bigger than Great Britain, we only have 5 million people, but we still have a housing problem. I do not disagree with that, but one of the main problems for putting more houses anywhere, even in increasing density, is the infrastructure funding, and I cannot see anything in this bill that addresses that problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000943\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThird question, then, is: given this housing problem, why has his party reneged on the medium-density rules, and would that not help and wasn\u2019t it helping already?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000944\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, those are three questions, but now I\u2019m moving on to clause 4, which is the interpretation section, and the Minister\u2019s Amendment Paper, which is 238\u2014it\u2019s very large. It is the whole bill, though, and it has a number of tracked changes from the version as reported back by the Environment Committee, which is helpful. It was tabled this afternoon, so we have not had long with it. Of course, we have known about some of those projects in Schedule 2\u2014not to go on to the select committee, but I wanted to ask the chair and the Minister for some guidance on how to deal with these substantial Government amendments, because it might be simplest just to move through the bill as per the Amendment Paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000945\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfc396b31f5e4be899e2866da596945f\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: No, we\u2019ll just have a debate part by part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000946\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d50cdae10a904e6bb3c0e1c27ed74e2f\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry? No, part by\u2014sorry, I\u2019m now having a conversation with the Minister. No, of course we want to move through part by part, but are we discussing the Minister\u2019s Amendment Paper now\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000947\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f93fa08fe2641d8930e230cd83b108d\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000948\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b252eee30354785a873b24908f343e0\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014as we go through? I\u2019m getting a nod. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000949\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c15d8d6c5e86462e8607d82ba58db2b1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, the schedule is in this part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000950\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d403255f0e2842619e31ea1bd450f50f\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, but, of course, it\u2019s not just the schedule that\u2019s in the Amendment Paper; the Amendment Paper amends many, many, many clauses of the bill. It does not amend clause 3, which we\u2019ve been talking about to now, but it does amend many others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000951\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI have a question, and the Minister might want to make a general comment on clause\u00A04, which is the interpretation clause. There are a lot of changes in his Amendment Paper to clause 4, and one of them is a competing application. This is a new definition, and it\u2019s talking about substantive applications, and it seems to be when there is a conflict between two different applications. I would like to know if that is a correct interpretation of that new competing application definition, and I would also like to know how this worked in the process that the Minister set up and says is robust. I, of course, question how robust it was, given we\u2019ve had reports in the media about this very short time that that group considered any applications and, very importantly, that they did not consider environmental considerations. Did that group not check between the different items on the schedule to see if they were in conflict with each other?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000952\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s the question relating to competing application, and I\u2019d be interested if the Minister wants to explain why there are so many new definitions in clause 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002245bd5082f39a421da3be5f0c801c3b4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245bd5082f39a421da3be5f0c801c3b4f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m happy to deal with most of the questions from the member. Firstly, does this fix the underlying problems of the Resource Management Act (RMA)? No, of course it doesn\u2019t. That\u2019s why we have an RMA bill\u2014bill one has already passed; bill two got introduced yesterday and will have its first reading next week; RMA phase three is under way. Of course that is true. Does it deal with infrastructure funding? No, it doesn\u2019t. Of course she is right that that is a significant issue. The Government has a substantial policy programme under way around that. It\u2019s one thing to unlock the land, but you need the infrastructure funding and financing tools. I\u2019ve made public comments around our work programme to that extent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000954\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThirdly, on the medium-density residential zones\u2014well, they haven\u2019t actually been repealed yet, by the way. They\u2019re still the law; heaps of councils are still doing them, for better or worse. Our view is that greater flexibility around zoning, but with a greater intensity around public transport corridors, rapid transit, and strategic bus corridors, allied with easier access to greenfield housing will make much more of a substantive difference. Our policy is Phil Twyford\u2019s original 2017 housing policy, except we\u2019re going to make it work. I\u2019d encourage the member to read the New Zealand Initiative speech Phil Twyford gave in 2019, in which he outlined an extensive programme of competitive land market reforms. It was a great policy\u2014it\u2019s a shame that he got into Government and firstly he was saddled with the disaster that was KiwiBuild, and then Jacinda Ardern actually took the portfolio off him and gave it to Megan Woods\u2014and New Zealand would be a better place\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000955\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e6f0a96c3ce4b2097114b0833197fac\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Not relevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000956\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bb42ee29fff47dd8cd2ff539178b7ab\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, exactly, it is irrelevant, but Rachel Brooking brought up infrastructure funding, which has got nothing to do with this bill. Clause 4 on competing applications\u2014I\u2019m advised that deals with the \u201Cfirst in, first served\u201D nature, so the bill doesn\u2019t affect the way that\u2019s dealt with under the RMA, which is basically \u201Cfirst in, first served\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3fe6fcee72a422782a151a327226db1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000957\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3fe6fcee72a422782a151a327226db1\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ll ask the Minister the last three of my four questions to him. My question is about the Cabinet sector in 2017 and the Legislation Design and Advisory Committee\u2019s (LDAC) advice around clauses like the one I\u2019ve proposed at 3A is simply that: is the provisions that he has relied on in his answer to me at clause 6 and clause 7\u2014those are about existing settlements and about ineligible M\u0101ori land\u2014is that enough, in his view, to satisfy what are essentially constitutional conventions here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000958\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThe question that LDAC asks Ministers to propose themselves and the Public Service is: does the proposed legislation affect, or have the potential to affect, the rights or interests of M\u0101ori under the Treaty? Not whether their settlements that have been passed through legislation are affected or whether M\u0101ori land as constituted under te ture o M\u0101ori Act 1994 or the definition that he\u2019s added to the legal definition of \u201CM\u0101ori land\u201D in clause 4A constitute that. If that is the case, why is he ignoring the constitutional conventions outlined in the Cabinet Manual 2017, that circular, and LDAC\u2019s advice? And what advice did the Minister have from LDAC about the effect of the way that this legislation has been drafted on those longstanding constitutional conventions? That\u2019s my question to him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI also have a specific question on the new definition of \u201CM\u0101ori land\u201D. At clause 4(1)(h) on page 9, the Minister has included \u201Cother land held by or on behalf of an iwi or hap\u016B if the land was transferred from the Crown [or] a Crown body \u2026 [for] the intention of returning the land to \u2026 holders of mana whenua\u201D. For many of the Treaty settlements, that will be affected by many, many, many of these projects that are listed in the 149 in the schedule today. Treaty settlement rights will be run roughshod over by this legislation because they are rights in future; they are rights of first refusal in collective agreements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESay, for example, the Ng\u0101 Mana Whenua o T\u0101maki Makaurau Collective Redress Act 2014, which legislates for the collective redress of the 19 iwi with an interest in Auckland. There is a right of first refusal that is collectively shared between three carousels of the iwi that are represented in three different parts of Auckland with different interests. Those carousels are offered rights to buy land which is sold by Government or Crown departments. When transfer occurs\u2014that might be between, say, the transfer of a court building to Police\u2014it is the intention of the 2014 Act that that offer would be made to iwi. We have caught in this definition every single piece of Crown land in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000961\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIs the intention here of the Minister that every single piece of Crown land should be deemed M\u0101ori land? Or would it not be simpler to remove the provision there to include every single piece of Crown land and to simply make it explicit that decision makers under this bill\u2014like the panel and like Ministers who make decisions about public land\u2014should give effect to Te Tiriti o Waitangi? That is less burdensome on New Zealanders, that is simpler, that is well understood in our jurisprudence. It\u2019s been an established piece of our law since 1975.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022114596b7fa784218ba5a5a30ec8601a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022114596b7fa784218ba5a5a30ec8601a1\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E Look, I don\u2019t want to relitigate past ground, because we\u2019ve gone through this at quite some length in response to H\u016Bhana Lyndon\u2019s contribution but also Ms Packer\u2019s contribution. There are extensive provisions throughout the legislation, including in Part 1, which we\u2019re meant to be talking about, for the protection of M\u0101ori land. Nothing can happen in a substantive sense on M\u0101ori customary land, without the permission of the landowner, and there are protections for existing Treaty settlements through there. Yes, officials and the Government did take advice from a variety of bodies throughout the development of the bill, which has been under way for the better part of a year now, and we\u2019re very confident that we have given effect to Cabinet circulars and various Cabinet Manual requirements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000963\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe member\u2019s suggestion that we should just create a carte blanche \u201CThe bill must give effect to the Treaty\u201D would be a licence, with respect, for utter legal chaos. The Government is not willing to do that. What we have tried to do in a very precise legal way is uphold and protect Treaty settlements\u2014everyone acknowledges that that is very important\u2014and the bill does that, and we are very confident the bill does that; and protect M\u0101ori land, and the bill does that. This sort of idea that we\u2019ll have an untrammelled right to give effect to the Treaty would be a recipe for legal chaos and would be contrary to what the Government is intending to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000964\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd97e9043a644b3ca702ea3708cce65d\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Through the Chair, point of order, please. I\u2019d like to have it corrected on record, please\u2014it\u2019s taken me a very long time to hold the name \u201CNgarewa\u201D\u2014my surname is Ngarewa-Packer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000965\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9bcb0c05f964f989479651365e568c1\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: My apologies. It\u2019s very late. My apologies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u00226e244fce1a424515972b6aae91f30898\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000966\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e244fce1a424515972b6aae91f30898\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Chair. It\u2019s interesting to be able to take a call this evening on this piece of legislation. Listening to what the Minister responsible for RMA Reform has just been saying in his last two contributions, I guess my caution is that several learned lawyers during the select committee space\u2014one challenged this Government about this bill having the potential to be this Government\u2019s KiwiBuild disaster, and you just spoke about that. Just so you know, there are some very learned members. The second part in that last contribution that he\u2019s made is the fact that other lawyers\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000967\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b08e0c506a84dfe9c2ca581b0406395\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: No one will say the members are asleep at 10 o\u2019clock at night!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000968\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6faaae20cc04deab8c558551893efa6\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: The other lawyers spoke about, basically, the truck you could drive through this legislation in terms of the fact that litigation with this legislation would be massive. I just thought I\u2019d raise that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000969\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI know there\u2019s been a lot of discussion this evening about the purpose of the bill, and I\u2019ve heard the hard and fast answer that you\u2019re not going to change that, but the challenge is, for me, as I listen, we can\u2019t take this in isolation this evening. We\u2019ve got to look at the previous months in terms of the process that we\u2019ve been through, and the challenge of democracy within that, but also the challenge\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000970\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bdf89c2fb5840bcbc78188a081bcb26\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: We can, actually, Mr Bennett\u2014at this stage of night, we could stick to fairly narrow. We\u2019ve probably had a few general debate speeches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000971\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f250c421bfe4ca7b9a9dd057837ed6a\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to go for five minutes past 10, Mr Chair. What I really briefly want to say is we don\u2019t disagree with the fact that a one-stop shop\u2014we don\u2019t disagree with the fact that the Resource Management Act has been clunky. We\u2019ve spoken about that already. But what is this Government afraid of in terms of considering the environment as part of that? What is this Government afraid of in terms of maybe ensuring that the systems are better set up, that funding is in place to ensure that we can move things on far quicker? My question is: why is the Minister afraid of including the environment in the purpose of the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022adc29208015246a88e632a7c67962dea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000972\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022adc29208015246a88e632a7c67962dea\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The time has come to suspend this debate. It will be resumed at 9 a.m. tomorrow. Goodnight, everyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000973\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210460ba5d23ecb4d35b5cd804aa9a89712000974\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 9.58 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a038536829984b5887fafb19f701787d\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 10 DECEMBER 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002232b52864cd9a4db082aad541ed31d659\u0022\u003E(continued on Wednesday, 11 December 2024)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022301f46dc471945e7b9ee2a211374cdaa\u0022\u003EFast-track Approvals Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002293b2426cbc134bf5a59b02c8e3bd96c4\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002297bdc37587524de2a774f0c9f102e991\u0022\u003EPart 1  Preliminary provisions (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002260c0ff7366b947bb9cfd35038ca0bf61\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260c0ff7366b947bb9cfd35038ca0bf61\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, when we suspended last night, we were debating Part 1. Part 1\u2014this is the debate on clauses 3 to 9, \u201CPreliminary provisions\u201D, and Schedules 1, 2, and 3A. The question, again, is that Part 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u00227a44ebf35d9b4c50a9cc04c660f2d4a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a44ebf35d9b4c50a9cc04c660f2d4a9\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m now moving to clause 4A\u2014so, still in Part 1. I remind the Minister responsible for RMA Reform that when we were discussing the bill last night, I did think he wanted to take up the opportunity to discuss his changes in his Amendment Paper about the interpretation clause, clause 4. The same goes for clause 4A, because there are some changes in his Amendment Paper\u2014Amendment Paper 238; it\u2019s a big one\u2014to clause 4A as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWhat I want to talk about is clause 4A, \u201CMeaning of ineligible activity\u201D. This is a really fundamental clause. It\u2019s not as important as the purpose clause, but it\u2019s very fundamental to how the whole scheme of the bill acts, and that is because if something fits in the definition of \u201Cineligible activity\u201D, then the approvals under the bill can\u2019t be granted. There are a number of activities that are excluded, and they are listed in clause 4A.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EMy questions to the Minister are related to Amendment Paper 141 in the name of Glen Bennett. The first part of the Amendment Paper amends clause 4A by replacing paragraphs (m) and (n) with \u201C(m) an activity that is a prohibited activity under the Resource Management Act 1991: (n) an activity that is inconsistent with a water conservation order made under Part 9 of the Resource Management Act 1991: (o) an application for an activity that is substantially the same as an application under a specified Act previously made and declined by a tribunal or court.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThese are three particular additions that we think should be included in \u201Cineligible activities\u201D. I want to outline those reasons now. The first is about prohibited activities. It\u2019s very difficult for a council to make a prohibited activity in a plan. There are certain thresholds that have to be met to make a prohibited activity, and most prohibited activities in council plans are things like building on flood plains or building nuclear power plants\u2014it\u2019s a very high bar to make something a prohibited activity. What it means is that when something is prohibited, you cannot apply for a consent for that activity. Councils are nervous about making a prohibited activity, because they know that they are likely to be appealed if there is a landowner who doesn\u2019t want that activity to be prohibited.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWill the Minister consider including prohibited activities as ineligible activities? There has been no other fast-track legislation or similar legislation that has ever allowed for permissions to be granted to prohibited activities. What analysis has been undertaken about the prohibited activities that could be overruled by this bill? I cannot recall seeing any of that. Those are the questions on the prohibited activities. They are very serious. An activity has to be very bad and very inconsistent with the plan made by the council, made with the community, for it to be prohibited, so overruling it is a fundamental affront to all those processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThe next activity that we think should be included in the list of ineligible activities is an activity that is inconsistent with a water conservation order made under Part 9 of the Resource Management Act. Water conservation orders are referred to often as the national parks of water bodies. They are very significant water bodies and there is a very long process for communities and environmental groups to go through to apply for a water conservation order. Depending on when it was made, there\u2019s a panel process or a court process required. There are, in fact, only 16 water conservation orders in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EAgain, there have been enormous public processes to protect these 16 water bodies. We\u2019ve heard particularly about the springs in Nelson. We\u2019re very worried and concerned that there could be projects that would override their recent water conservation order. I\u2019m sure other members will want to speak about that specific example, but, again, it seems entirely inconsistent that while some activities will not be allowed in national parks, and nor should they, things could happen that would be inconsistent with these water conservation orders that have been through years and years and years of processes for those very special protections. It totally undermines the whole point of those water conservation protections if they can just be overridden by a fast-track approval.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThe third one there is an application for an activity that is substantially the same as an application for a specified Act previously made and declined by a tribunal or court. Of course, the specified Acts are the different Acts that the fast-track approvals can be made for, and the ones that I\u2019m particularly thinking of here are the Resource Management Act and the Conservation Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWe know that a number of the projects that now turn up in Schedule 2 of the Minister\u2019s amendment have already been decided and declined by a court or tribunal. When the Prime Minister stands in this House in question time and says the Opposition members should support this fast-track bill because it\u2019s good for the environment, he needs to make this change to this clause as well, and some other changes, to be able to demonstrate that this bill is not, in fact, an override of those protections\u2014because an application has been made, it\u2019s been declined on environmental grounds, and then, now, magically, it can be approved under this fast-track bill despite the fact that it had already been declined on environmental grounds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThe Minister may say, \u201CWell, the application will be different this time and it will provide better protections for the environment and that is why the fast-track legislation should apply.\u201D I can understand that argument in part, which is why we\u2019ve put in this Amendment Paper, which is substantially the same as an application. If it is different, if for some reason a coal mine in a kiwi habitat is suddenly not going to harm kiwi, or if it\u2019s a marine farm in a landscape area and there\u2019s some environmental effects regarding penguins that can now be mitigated in a sensible way by changes to that application, then it wouldn\u2019t be substantially the same and it could still go through this process if this amendment is made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EAt the moment, the way the bill is structured, any argument that this bill somehow protects the environment is undermined by the fact that applications that have previously been declined because of their adverse effects on the environment can be approved under this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a specious argument to try and then argue that somehow this bill is going to protect the environment. We\u2019ve solved that problem for the Minister by this Amendment Paper in Glen Bennett\u2019s name, with that change that adds paragraph (o). I\u2019d like the Minister\u2019s comments on excluding prohibited activities and any evidence or thought that\u2019s gone into what those activities might be, and why they should be included in the fast-track bill, and about protecting water conservation orders that have gone through these giant public processes that I\u2019ve just canvassed and not allowing projects that are substantially the same as ones that have already been declined. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce40a64021a24188836a5abd301d193c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce40a64021a24188836a5abd301d193c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E The answer in relation to all of the three areas that the member, the Hon Rachel Brooking, raises\u2014prohibited activities, water conservation orders, and previously declined projects\u2014is the same in all of them, which is that the bill is designed to facilitate projects with significant regional or national benefits. Very deliberately, the Government has gone for a wide scope to enable a broad range of activities, wider than the existing Resource Management Act (RMA), but that\u2019s not to say that those things that the member mentioned aren\u2019t important; our expectation is that they will be taken into account during the panel process. The point is we\u2019re just not excluding, up front, projects that fall within any of those categories from being considered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESpecifically, when it comes to previously declined projects, I take a different view to the member Rachel Brooking, which is the Government\u2019s view that there have been projects under the RMA that have been declined that we would like to see progressed. That is an explicit policy decision, and that, I think, gets to the nub of the issue and the heart of the bill, which is that the current laws are too restrictive about projects that can be done. If you take the view that the status quo is fine, then, obviously, you support restrictions and the status quo when it comes to projects that have been declined, because that\u2019s your view. That\u2019s acceptable\u2014that\u2019s a legitimate point of view; reasonable people can disagree. The Government\u2019s view is that the current laws have not allowed enough development and therefore we are changing the law to make clear that we want to see projects happen that would\u2014that have\u2014otherwise been declined in the past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s just really an issue as to the committee\u2019s comfortableness with the strictures placed on projects right now, and our Government position is that there are a whole range of activities that have not been allowed that should be allowed. It really gets to the heart of the bill, and that is the Government\u2019s position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u002235078465435548e286f5d0f3828fb3b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235078465435548e286f5d0f3828fb3b0\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. Just in reply to that\u2014and I know that my colleagues from the Green Party have more questions on Part 1 of the bill before we get to the schedule in some detail\u2014given the Minister responsible for RMA Reform\u2019s answer just then that he\u2019s unhappy with the current law and the decisions that have been made under that law that have constrained some development, and therefore it is a policy choice to go through with this piece of legislation to enable those projects to proceed, does he agree that that is then inconsistent with the Prime Minister\u2019s remarks in question time yesterday that this bill will protect the environment? That is my first point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EMy second one is a point of frustration, really, because many people, when this bill was introduced, came and made submissions to the Environment Committee and said this bill is about process only. The word \u201Cprocess\u201D was, in fact, in the purpose clause as the bill was introduced\u2014it\u2019s been removed now by the select committee\u2014but they said, and a number of parties who then went on to also apply to be in the bill said, \u201CNo, no; this bill is about speed and it is about the joined-up, the one-stop shop. That\u2019s all it\u2019s about.\u201D We\u2019ve listened to the Minister and we\u2019ve listened to the Prime Minister say it\u2019s not about overriding environmental protections, but what the Minister\u2014and I would like him to agree or not agree with me; I think it\u2019s useful to have on the Hansard\u2014has just clearly outlined, in my opinion, is that this bill is about substantive decision making, which is consistent with the changes to the purpose clause, and is very particularly designed to enable projects that would otherwise fail under existing legislation to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a \u201Cgetting things done\u201D approach that, regardless of what happens to the environment, regardless of what the community thinks, the projects that are included in his Schedule 2\u2014the 149 projects\u2014are there purposefully to override the environmental protections that we have seen stopping some of these projects in the past. If that is the case\u2014we\u2019re following on from the logic that he was just discussing\u2014does he think it would have been better or would he consider some changes to specify the projects included in the 149 why it is that the Government thinks that the previous decisions\u2014the 149 projects; the ones that have already previously been declined\u2014why it is; what the public interest is, apart from regional or national benefit, that is so important that those environmental protections should be overridden?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThis is fundamentally important: there\u2019s been a judicial process and something has had a negative environmental effect\u2014say, it\u2019s going to kill kiwis\u2014and then the Government, the Minister is here saying, \u201CWell, we\u2019re OK with the killing of those kiwis.\u201D We\u2019ve heard his colleague the Hon Shane Jones say, \u201CGoodbye Freddie.\u201D He said it a number of times: \u201CWe\u2019ll say goodbye to the Archey\u2019s frog.\u201D\u2014something that horrifies OceanaGold, who tell me how much work they\u2019ve done to protect Archey\u2019s frog and that there is no way that they want Archey\u2019s frog to go extinct. They said in the submissions that they\u2019re very happy to have an environmental clause added to the purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EHas the Minister thought about specifically outlining the projects that have previously been declined for environmental effects and what the justification is for that particular project to override those environmental effects? Or, if he considers that the process under the fast-track bill will provide enough security for those environmental impacts to be treated differently, is it his expectation that the projects will be different from the ones that were applied for with the negative environmental effects; that this process will give them a chance to rethink about the project; and does he expect different environmental outcomes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002200f667a5445e41f89d7dcf8f1b8f0480\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200f667a5445e41f89d7dcf8f1b8f0480\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E Well, the member, the Hon Rachel Brooking, makes some reasonable points, but all I would say is this: she seems to be drawing a distinction between various different rationales for the bill and trying to claim that they are different; they\u2019re not. There are multiple rationales for the bill. One is speed; there\u2019s no doubt about that. One is the one-stop shop nature of it, which is the major distinction between this version of fast track and the previous Government\u2019s version of fast track, which was basically a Resource Management Act (RMA) fast track. This incorporates a variety of underlying statutes like the Wildlife Act and various other statutes that are often required\u2014the Conservation Act being the most notable other one. It is partly about speed; it is also partly about the one-stop shop element of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIt is also partly about changing the decision-making framework to allow more projects to happen, and we\u2019ve been really up front about that. When we launched fast track in December last year, soon after the Government came to office, I gave a series of speeches about that. It\u2019s not to say that the environment is not important; it is important, and layered throughout the bill are a series of protections about the environment. The underlying parent legislation for all of the statutes we are talking about\u2014the RMA, Conservation Act, etc.\u2014is layered through the bill. Those things are considered at the substantive expert panel stage, and those protections and the conditions placed on the way in which a project happens, the activities that a project undertakes, are weighed against the purpose of the legislation. The Government\u2019s view is that we\u2019ve struck the right balance between one-stop shop, speed, and making it clear that the purpose of the bill and the legislation is to facilitate the delivery of regionally and nationally significant projects while still maintaining core environmental protections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI come back to what I said last night, which I think is the major point of disagreement between both sides of the Chamber: the Government\u2019s view is that the status quo is unacceptable. Members are entitled to take a different view. The Government\u2019s view is that the status quo is unacceptable when it comes to speed, when it comes to condition setting, when it comes to environmental protections weighed against the economic interests. We are disrupting that; we are quite explicit about that. We want more houses built more quickly, we want renewable energy built more quickly, we need more quarries, we need more mines, we need more infrastructure built. The status quo does not work; it fails New Zealand, and that is why we have fast track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u002213015f5de6384be693cf5975cffb2065\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213015f5de6384be693cf5975cffb2065\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Now, you\u2019ll get the sense that we\u2019re prosecuting quite deeply this question of environmental protections, but I think it\u2019s important, because the Minister responsible for RMA Reform\u2019s just stated that within the purpose of the bill there is still an intent to maintain core environmental protections, but it is not clear how that intent is fulfilled in this legislation, because at every step the legislation is unwilling to express that principle in its drafting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003ELast night, there was a debate-like speech by the Minister on how the Resource Management Act (RMA) had failed to facilitate development that was wished\u2014a speech that was reined in by the Chair, we might recall, because it was not appropriate to the setting. The point that had been made by my colleague that the Minister was responding to was in fact that not only has the RMA, in your conception, failed to facilitate the sort of development you would like to see; the RMA has facilitated environmental decline as well. There is not disagreement across this Chamber that the RMA is problematic and failing. When you were asked specifically, \u201CWhere do environmental outcomes fit in this bill?\u201D, you\u2019ve just said that this bill will still maintain core environmental protections. The question is: by what means will it do that? In its drafting, it clearly, specifically, and explicitly rules out multiple pieces of environmental legislation. That is what the legislation does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003ETo remediate this, we have proposed various additions or changes to clause 3, the purpose of the bill. My colleague proposed inserting the words \u201Cwhile continuing to promote the sustainable management of natural and physical resources.\u201D I had proposed inserting \u201Cin line with existing environmental protections and democratic processes\u201D. There is another Amendment Paper that I\u2019d like to speak to in that regard that I\u2019d like the Minister to respond to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239d7e22c1afc4c5b9652252023a666e5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Can you give us the Amendment Paper number?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4046c6e4f584c918f416a47ac739310\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL\u003C/span\u003E: Pardon me, the two that I just referred to, the one by Lan Pham, 147, which my colleague spoke to last night, and I spoke last night to 148, and I\u2019m now speaking to Amendment Paper 149, which has not yet been spoken to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThis is an attempt to get the Minister to put in some form of the word \u201Cenvironment\u201D, the conception of the environment as a thing that is part of the intent of the bill to be protected, because it seems to me that they are throwing out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak. The Minister\u2019s argument is that environmental protections have been the primary barrier to the sort of development that he would like to see, but here he is absolutely removing any true burden and consideration on decision makers to take into account the environment. The question, I still believe, remains unanswered: where do environmental outcomes fit in this bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThe amendment I\u2019m proposing is: at clause 3, after \u201Cregional or national benefits\u201D\u2014on page 6, line 11\u2014insert the words \u201Cfor the prosperity of all New Zealanders and the natural environment\u201D, thereby clarifying that the intent should also include the environment. Is the Minister suggesting development at all costs? Why is it so pernicious to the Minister, or so revolting to the Minister, to consider putting in mention of the environment in the actual purpose?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThe Minister said that what he was trying to achieve was a belief that there were projects that have been declined that this Government would like to see progress. Now, I wonder if the Minister can outline: what are those declined projects that you would like to see progress? You have stated that. It seems to me that he has clarity about there being specific projects that have not been allowed to progress. I wonder if the Minister can outline some examples of projects that were turned down in the previous regime that the Minister would like to progress\u2014this is another point, really\u2014the obvious big ones being the Trans-Tasman Resources seabed mining project that suffered 10 years of being kicked back because it was so bad for the environment and had such a negative effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EI noted last night that the Minister said, in regard to the departure of a major offshore wind interest in this country because of the Government\u2019s articulated support for seabed mining in Taranaki, there was no regulatory regime for offshore wind. What is the regulatory regime for deep-sea mining, Minister? There is no regulatory regime for that. It is a totally novel and extreme extractive industry. It basically doesn\u2019t exist anywhere in the world. You\u2019re purporting to support, and have added to the fast-track list, this novel, unregulated industry and seem to be backing picking a winner. Is that one of the projects that was declined that the Minister would like to see progress?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EI wonder, in that context, what is the line of environmental damage that is acceptable? What is the guidance for those decision makers who are making determinations around the projects that you wish them to make evaluations on? What is the line of environmental damage that is acceptable and what are the protections that you expect, and, in the simplest terms, where do those environmental outcomes fit in this bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EI will leave it for another call to talk about the Te Tiriti o Waitangi considerations that my colleague Debbie Ngarewa-Packer talked about last night, the fact that there is no mention of Te Tiriti in the fundamental clauses, and your response that it would be utter legal chaos to consider Te Tiriti. I\u2019ll come back and speak to that, but my primary question, Minister, is: where do environmental outcomes fit in the bill, and how will you maintain core environmental protections if you don\u2019t mention them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002231a0afbc7dd240baa319e6b981dd2382\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231a0afbc7dd240baa319e6b981dd2382\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E I want to encourage the member Steve Abel to read the bill, for starters. The various pieces of underlying legislation are in the schedules, and all of the environmental considerations as part of those statutes  are part of the bill. The member says, \u201CIs the Government\u2019s position development at all costs?\u201D No, it isn\u2019t, and I point him to clause 24WD, which is \u201CWhen panel must or may decline approvals\u201D, which is the panel must decline an approval if the panel forms the view that there are one or more adverse impacts in relation to the approval sought. This is the key issue: those adverse impacts are sufficiently significant to be out of proportion for the project\u2019s regional or national benefits that the panel has considered under section 24W(3)(a) after taking into account conditions, etc. There\u2019s a very clear decline clause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EAs I canvassed last night in the Chamber, the Government\u2019s initial position was that Ministers should be both the referring body to the fast-track panels and then ultimately make the consenting decisions. Now, that met with some degree of scepticism from people, including from members opposite, so the Government\u2019s changed its stance on that, and the panels now make the final decisions, and we put clear criteria in there around declines. It\u2019s not development at all costs, but it is a pro-development statute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll just make the point that I made before and again last night: this is a disruption to the status quo. It is a change. We\u2019re explicit about that and we\u2019re deliberate about that, because, as we canvassed last night, the status quo is not working for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to projects that we would like to see advance that have been previously declined, I\u2019m going to decline the member\u2019s invitation to get into the specifics about that. Suffice to say\u2014just to repeat what I said before\u2014that if that wasn\u2019t the case, we wouldn\u2019t be here. Clearly, there are projects that we would like to have seen happen that have been declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to Trans-Tasman Resources and the offshore wind, I mean, it is a true statement of fact that there is no regulatory regime for offshore wind, but there is for the activities that Trans-Tasman Resources wish to undertake. We have an Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act and we have a Resource Management Act, so there is a well-canvassed regulatory regime around that. There isn\u2019t for offshore wind. It\u2019s not a most super important point, to be honest, but it is a point I make in passing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to his comments around the Treaty, I stand by what I said last night, which is that an untrammelled clause to just give effect to the Treaty\u2014I mean, Parliament does not legislate for \u201Cthe Treaty\u201D. To be honest, that shows a staggering lack of constitutional nous from those members. Parliament has not done that for years and years. In fact, the last time Parliament tried to legislate the Treaty was the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022827bba7acd4f4708b1d6637fbf02a858\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: It doesn\u2019t mean you can\u2019t change and start doing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d854633fbe6b41d3ad48244dc7de4774\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well, just listen to what I\u2019m saying. The last time a serious proposition was put to legislate the Treaty was the 1987 Palmer proposal for the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act\u2014the first draft\u2014which went out for consultation. Palmer\u2019s version of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act actually wanted to literally incorporate the entirety of the text of the Treaty\u2014leaving aside the debate about which version you do. He wanted to put the entirety of the Treaty in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act\u2014it was 1985, sorry. That met with widespread opprobrium from everybody, and so that idea was rejected, including by M\u0101oridom, by the way. Views may be different 40 years on, but that was the last serious attempt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThen, subsequent to that, Parliament decided that we would legislate Treaty principles. The Government\u2019s position is that we should be much more specific about what legal rights and obligations you are creating. The approach of untrammelled, broadly defined words and phrases that we ultimately leave to the courts to define has been problematic. That\u2019s one of the major reasons why the then Opposition, now Government, opposed the Natural and Built Environment Act because of the reference to Te Oranga o te Taiao, which has never been used in New Zealand law before and would have led to years and years of litigation. Parliament has to be clear and specific about what it is legislating. I stand by what I said. It would be chaos to\u2014[Time expired] Mr Chair? Just very briefly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022626ec00ee8ca4ed8b1dd6b4fefb24c22\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Chris Bishop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b8a6279676d4dfc9afe00c760af2193\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair, I\u2019ll just finish this point off. It would cause chaos to just insert \u201Cthe Treaty\u201D into a piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe principles have proved problematic and difficult enough for the polity and the courts to grapple with, and we are trying to be more specific and clear about what we are creating, which is why in the bill there are references to Treaty settlements. The settlements are agreements between the Crown and iwi in relation to specific legal obligations that the Crown imposes on itself around consultation, around\u2014I mean, it depends on the settlement, but there\u2019s a variety of different things that the Crown enters into and then legislates. We have not sought at any point\u2014in fact, it\u2019s a core part of all of the coalition documents that we will uphold and honour Treaty settlements. That is a critical bottom line for the Government. That\u2019s why it\u2019s reflected in the legislation. The idea\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ffb2676fd334b9ea5fdff13ffea4f60\u0022\u003EH\u016Bhana Lyndon\u003C/span\u003E: Only historic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209f51e97671440799904883141c0a341\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226439356d59904a40863c4b11a9c7d611\u0022\u003EH\u016Bhana Lyndon\u003C/span\u003E: Those are only historic agreements. That does not recognise contemporary breaches that you\u2019re doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a2d98bb478b44258a3db6806719f266\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: OK, let\u2019s not have conversations across the Chamber, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c10a8d4f442e4681b860355e3e4f3119\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, contemporary\u2014I mean, it depends what your definition of a contemporary breach is. The Waitangi Tribunal\u2019s currently seems to be that literally anything the Crown does is a contemporary breach; the Government has a different view, unsurprisingly. That\u2019s a conversation for another day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a core commitment to uphold Treaty settlements, but we are not going to insert a clause into the bill that puts a broad commitment to \u201Cthe Treaty\u201D. That is not the way Parliament, including for the last 40 years\u2014that is not what Parliament has done, and Parliament has not done that for a very specific reason. Actually, that enjoys cross-party consensus. Maybe it doesn\u2019t any more, but it certainly enjoys consensus across the Government parties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea95b497023d46619636c65fbb55f4cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea95b497023d46619636c65fbb55f4cd\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I want to pick up, firstly, on the Minister Responsible for RMA Reform\u2019s reply to the question about where do the environment and environmental outcomes sit in the bill. He very accurately described what is in the bill, when it comes to environmental aspects, as \u201Cenvironmental considerations\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003ENow, that is the accurate way to summarise where the environment sits in this bill. It is a consideration, rather than protections that New Zealanders would typically understand are involved when it comes to environmental legislation. We previously had various checks and balances where there were thresholds that constitute environmental protections, but we know that, under fast track, these are now merely considerations which ultimately need to be weighed up by the panel, and when they legally have to give the greatest weight to the development benefits, we know that they are simply considerations rather than protections. I\u2019m really interested in if the Minister thinks that is an accurate way of summarising where the environment sits in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EI want to specifically talk to Amendment Paper 150. The context for this is that we\u2019ve heard, time and time and time again, particularly from the Prime Minister, about, for example, the renewable energy projects that sit within fast track. We hear about various projects that confer actual public benefit. Now, if this is the thing that, publicly, the Government wants to point to about fast track, then let\u2019s actually make the fast-track bill about these public projects. Here we have an amendment that very basically spells out a definition of what would constitute \u201Csignificant regional or national benefit\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EIn clause 4, which involves various definitions about how to interpret words that are used within the bill, after \u201Cresponsible agency\u201D, we would actually suggest a definition of \u201Csignificant regional or national benefits\u201D. We would say that this \u201Cmeans public infrastructure projects that provide a public good; and (b) includes, without limitation, public infrastructure projects that relate to-sustainable transport: [to] water: [to] hospitals: [to] education: [to] renewable energy generation: [and to] telecommunications\u201D. Again, these are the kinds of projects that the Government likes to point to that are part of fast\u00A0track, but it isn\u2019t actually defined. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EA lot of submitters during the select committee process actually pointed this out as a really sensible way to narrow the eligibility of projects that actually deliver public benefits, rather than the private, more controversial aspects of, like, the waste incinerators, the seabed mining, the coal mining, the open-cast gold mining\u2014these are the kind of projects which are causing all of the controversy with fast track. We had a number of submitters, including the Infrastructure Commission, recommend that we actually do make changes here, and we proposed these changes, even at select committee stage, but, like so many sensible suggestions, they were shut down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EI am really interested to hear the Minister\u2019s response: why is he not considering narrowing to this very clear definition which would make the fast-track bill exactly what the Government purports it to be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022e74fd18ff0e04de186b8b34adac2914d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e74fd18ff0e04de186b8b34adac2914d\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E We\u2019ve been through this for two hours last night, but I\u2019m happy, hopefully for the final time, to deal with this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIt depends on what your definition of a public benefit is. The debate last night, as I demonstrated, was about this proposition\u2014nuts proposition, frankly\u2014that a privately owned electricity generator didn\u2019t deliver private benefits. The member Lan Pham\u2019s argument seems now to be that renewable energy is a public benefit. I agree\u2014I agree with her\u2014there are public benefits from renewable energy, but much of New Zealand\u2019s renewable electricity infrastructure is privately owned. Trust Power\u2014or Manawa Energy, as it\u2019s now called\u2014and Contact Energy are privately owned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ENow, that reflects historical circumstance and a variety of different things. If the member\u2019s proposition is that renewable energy is a public benefit, I agree with her, but the point we made last night, and I make it again today, is that the ownership structure of those entities differs. Some are publicly owned, listed companies; 51 percent owned by the Crown. Others are wholly privately owned. The member\u2019s argument across the foregoing debate last night was that all of those private benefits had to be ruled out. She now seems to be claiming that renewable energy is a public benefit and, therefore, that should be allowed. Well, I agree with her, but the point is that the ownership of those entities differs. The argument seems to have changed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe core contention of the Government is this: all of the projects and all of the activities listed in the fast track deliver public benefits, and those benefits differ depending on the project and the activity, but they are all public benefits\u2014for example, housing. Now, the vast bulk of housing in New Zealand\u2014again, I said this last night, and the point remains true; it\u2019s never been rebutted\u2014is delivered by the private sector; it\u2019s not delivered by the public sector. K\u0101inga Ora has a role to play, but the vast bulk of it is delivered by people putting their own private capital up, developing their own land that they buy\u2014and it\u2019s bloody tough, frankly. We need more private sector housing. That\u2019s part of the reason why we\u2019ve got fast track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIs there a private benefit from someone developing a piece of land and selling it to buyers of houses? Well, of course; they\u2019re making money out of it. Is that a private benefit? Yes. But is there a public benefit in more housing? Absolutely there is, because we need more houses. That is a public benefit. Is there a private benefit from Contact building a wind farm and making a buck out of it in the electricity market? Yes. Are they making money for their shareholders? Yes. Is there a public benefit from renewable energy? Yes. The member\u2019s argument is that renewables are a public benefit. We agree.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe member is actually making our point, which is that, in a mixed economy, there is a variety of different ownership structures and there are different benefits, both public and private. Is there a benefit from more quarries? Yes, there is, because to do anything in infrastructure in this country you need more quarries. Are they publicly owned quarries? No, the Government hasn\u2019t nationalised the quarrying sector. The Government doesn\u2019t run quarries. We haven\u2019t run quarries since probably the 1870s. Do we need more quarries? Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EMining: is there a private benefit from mines? Yes, of course there is. Well, we used to own a coal-mining company in New Zealand. It was called Solid Energy. The Government didn\u2019t do a very good job of running Solid Energy, because the Government doesn\u2019t do a very good job of running most businesses, so we don\u2019t own Solid Energy any more. The majority of mines in New Zealand are privately owned. Is there a private benefit to them? Of course there is, because people who own the mines will make money out of it, but is there a public benefit to the West Coast from having coal mining on the West Coast? Absolutely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EGo down to the West Coast and tell the people of the West Coast that the mines that thousands of New Zealanders and West Coast workers depend on for their livelihoods, or go to Waih\u012B and tell the people there that the mine that is near there, which provides jobs and growth and regional resilience in sometimes quite neglected parts of New Zealand\u2014tell those people there aren\u2019t public benefits from mines! There are, and the Government\u2019s position is that the broad suite of projects that are in fast track or that will be considered, whether it\u2019s mining or renewables or quarries or wind farms or housing or roads, all of those different things\u2014all of them, yes, to some extent have private benefits for their owners or private benefits for the people who run them, but they all have public benefits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThat is the reason why they are being fast-tracked. They all have public benefits, and the member\u2019s own argument makes that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1ae53e8fc1c4ddc9c81628b63dd37ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1ae53e8fc1c4ddc9c81628b63dd37ee\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m really appreciating the Minister Responsible for RMA Reform\u2019s responses, in basically saying that the sky is blue, but I don\u2019t accept the quite disingenuous assumption, or assertion, that my argument is changing. It\u2019s not changing. What I\u2019m saying, and what we\u2019ve been saying all along, is: make it really clear within the fast-track bill that companies that apply for fast track need to prove that they are conferring these public benefits. I disagree that every project in the list confers a public benefit, and if you narrow it, again, like many submitters suggested, including the Infrastructure Commission, you would actually avoid a lot of the controversy about these much more damaging projects which are included in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003ENow, what I want to pick up on is another aspect, which I refer to in Amendment Paper 151. This is about adding a clause after 4A(1) that inserts where a project is contrary to a regional or district plan, regulations, or an Order in Council\u2014this would, basically, amend the bill itself to make activities that are contrary to these plans set by local authorities, regulations, or Orders in Council ineligible for fast-track approval.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EWhy I think that is really important at the approval stage is that these plans and the processes that councils and communities have been through are often years in the making, and they actually form this democratic structure of our society, about how we want our communities and our cities to look, how we want them to develop, how we want different protections to be in place or not. I think what\u2019s so important about this is that there\u2019s really clear aspects within these plans\u2014for example, prohibited activities\u2014where it\u2019s been so clear from the community and the council that they do not want specific activities in these plans to be eligible for development. Now, the fact that fast track overrides these is a gross breach of our democratic structure and the way that we actually have plan making and the ability for communities to actually contribute to plan making in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EIf the Minister considered this amendment, it would go much further in terms of providing really clear, or much clearer, social licence for these activities and companies, which will, ultimately, be setting themselves up in communities, setting themselves up in our regions. The people who live in these communities, who are affected by these projects, would at least, in some small form, through the recognition of the district plans, or the regional plans, for example, have a say in that way. There has been no clear rationale that I have seen or heard\u2014even throughout the entire select committee process, and certainly as part of this committee of the whole stage\u2014that is a rational justification for being able to override these plans and rules that have been democratically arrived at through submissions, through consultations with the community, and through councils actually putting that in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EI am really interested as to why, again, the Minister has, so far, refused to implement this as part of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022260ecd3286a74f4c90936b0009be6c63\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022260ecd3286a74f4c90936b0009be6c63\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Chair. In the previous speech from the Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, he spoke about the statutes within this legislation, and obviously there\u2019s a lot of Acts of Parliament that it refers to. You also spoke about Treaty settlements that are included in this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, I understand that it is around a one-stop shop, hence why there is a lot of this information in the bill. But I\u2019m just wanting to get clarity in terms of\u2014I looked around recently in terms of, as far as I can see, this probably has the largest amount of statutes and Acts of Parliament that are in one piece of legislation. I just want to sort of get some clarification, if that is the case, if it feels comfortable, them all being in here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ESecondly, I\u2019m just going to briefly come back to the interpretation and there\u2019s the piece around competing application in relation to a substantive application. Now, I just want to get clarity from the Minister about what a \u201Csubstantive application\u201D is, just so we can understand as a committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThirdly, my third question this morning is: just looking at my Amendment Paper 141, which talks about inserting \u201Can activity that is inconsistent with a water conservation order made under Part 9 of the Resource Management Act 1991:\u201D\u2014I just want to get some clarity, because in the Environment Committee we obviously went through the process; we worked with the bill; we changed the bill, and it came back to the House. Now the Minister, in Amendment Paper 238, has added a section in the interpretation around the \u201Ccomplex freshwater fisheries activity\u201D and what that means in terms of \u201Cculverts and fords:\u201D, \u201Cpermanent dams\u201D and structures. I just want to be really clear in terms of why the Minister felt it important to add the complex freshwater fisheries activity explanation into the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u00228736d9fda14d43aa98e7564272618a8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228736d9fda14d43aa98e7564272618a8b\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ve got a number of quite contained questions to say about Part 1, before Schedule 2, and then I\u2019d like to move on to Schedule 2\u2014so, a number of things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EFirst of all, the idea that this side of the Chamber likes the status quo of the Resource Management Act (RMA) is offensive. I spent all of last term working on the Spatial Planning Act and then the Natural and Built Environment Act, which was to change the status quo and which of course, a year ago, this Government repealed. I asked a question yesterday to the Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, which I haven\u2019t heard an answer to, which was the problem\u2014one of the many problems\u2014with the status quo is that, compared with international comparisons, it is the smaller and medium projects that take too long and cost too much. The large projects take about the same amount of time as international comparisons and cost about the same amount for those applicants. So that would be good to get an answer to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EIt goes to the heart of the problem definition. If the problem definition is \u201Cwe need to get stuff done\u201D, well, is it the really big stuff or is it the small and medium stuff that should be having the priority? Obviously, the Government\u2019s decided on the big stuff, but that doesn\u2019t seem to be where the problem is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWe also just had a discussion from the Minister about a Treaty clause, and I think it\u2019d be useful to have on the Hansard that of course\u2014and I don\u2019t think he meant the opposite of this, but it sounded like it\u2014Governments have for many years inserted Treaty clauses into bills. In fact, the Minister acknowledged that the Natural and Built Environment Act did have a Treaty clause and it was referring to the principles of the Treaty, and it was a \u201Cto give effect to\u201D clause, which is the same as the Conservation Act and stronger than the RMA. The amendment that my colleague, Arena Williams was talking to yesterday was to include a \u201Cgive effect to the Treaty\u201D clause. That\u2019s not abnormal; many Governments have done it. The Minister then raised an argument that it is better, rather than to have a \u201Cgive effect\u201D or \u201Ctake into account the principles of the Treaty\u201D clause\u2014that can be up for discussion; so it\u2019s better to have specific provisions. Of course, the RMA has a section 6(e) and 7(a), which do some of that lifting, and then whole sections on Mana Whakahono a Rohe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThe point is that this bill doesn\u2019t do the specifics except for settled iwi and a little bit about the Mana Whakahono a Rohe, but iwi or hap\u016B that do not have settlements or do not have Mana Whakahono a Rohe agreements, which are very rare, are not really mentioned in this bill. That is the problem. The Minister\u2019s idea that you have a Treaty clause that sets out exactly what it is that is expected\u2014that is, you know, a logical thing that we can all debate here, but that is not what this bill does. This bill is only about settled iwi and Mana Whakahono a Rohe. There\u2019s a couple of bits in there, so he might want to come back to that point as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThen the Minister talks about how this bill is pro-development, but I would challenge him on that again, because it\u2019s pro very specific development. It\u2019s pro the things that are listed, the 149 things that are listed in that schedule too. It\u2019s not all development; it\u2019s those specific projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EBefore I get to those 149 projects, which I do want to do, I want to, again, ask the Minister about his amendment\u2014I need to be looking at the right version of the bill here, because he has an amendment that is the whole bill\u2014and whether or not the changes that he has made to clause 4A, which is the meaning of \u201Cineligible activity\u201D, if\u2014you know, what is the point of those changes? Do they enable more items to be considered under this bill, as in it reduces the amount of ineligible activities, or does it extend the amount of ineligible activities? Why has he made those changes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThen we can go through to Schedule 1 and the transitional provisions\u2014these are very large bills, excuse me for a minute\u2014and there are some changes in Schedule 1 in his amendment as well. It would be interesting to know why there are the changes in Schedule\u00A01, and there\u2019s a new bit on new applications at clause 4 of Schedule 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThose are a number of questions, but now I would like to move on to Schedule 2 and the list of projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022823c9a9a929a461b82c0c7a3d7c92523\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, we\u2019ve already talked about these.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240f6d78f1e054a5e877e2fcf8296a7a7\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Mr Meager, we have not talked about these, and, of course, we want to talk about them in a lot of detail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a702082716524a678a737248cb227edf\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s No. 3?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa5ac56b818c4cb687fa07d145376406\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Meager asks, \u201CWhat\u2019s No. 3?\u201D Of course, if he looks at Schedule 2, he will see that they are not numbered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI have flicked to the Minister\u2019s amendment, to page 129 of that, and on that\u2014I just flicked to this page\u2014I see NZSki Ltd. This talks about The Remarkables Ski Area upgrade and Doolan\u2019s expansion, and the project description says, \u201CUpgrade existing infrastructure at The Remarkables Ski Area, including a new passenger transport lift, carparking areas, and expanding the ski field into the adjacent Doolans Basin.\u201D Now, I have to declare that I do frequent The Remarkables Ski Area and that my family are all great fans of this particular ski field. I know the NZSki Ltd people well, through being sort of the Labour representative who does some work and tries to raise issues around the Queenstown area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThis expanding of the ski field into the adjacent Doolan\u2019s Basin is on conservation land and it means blasting a giant hole through the mountains. You wouldn\u2019t know that from reading this project description. Of course, everybody in Queenstown knows exactly what this project is, and there will be different views in Queensland about the importance of extending The Remarkables Ski Area into an area that I\u2019m sure will make for some very great skiing; there is no doubt about that. It is also on conservation land, and it is also a major project, and I\u2019m sure mana whenua will have many things to say as well about those Remarkables\u2014called that in English for a reason\u2014having a giant tunnel blasted through them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, when NZSki Ltd came and made their submission to the Environment Committee, I specifically asked what they thought about community input and that, of course, this fast-tracked process avoids that. The CEO, Paul, of NZSki Ltd did say, \u201CWe won\u2019t do this without community input.\u201D, but I don\u2019t know how that can happen with this mechanism through the fast track. My question for the Minister on this item\u2014and I know everybody else will have questions on different projects, the different 149 projects included in this\u2014is that NZSki Ltd is a private company and it\u2019s working on conservation land and it wants to, in this project description, blast a big tunnel through a mountain. That is a very private benefit that this company will get through having the purpose clause not refer to the environment. I want to ask the Minister how he can justify that a project that benefits the shareholders, or the main owner of NZSki Ltd, should be able to avoid consideration of the environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EHe might say, \u201CWell, it\u2019s going to be very useful for them to have all their approvals considered at once because there will be many approvals required.\u201D I don\u2019t disagree with that. The point here is that there is no reference to the environment in the purpose and that this project is going to make a very private benefit to a very private company and should not be included in a public bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022181bc9451b4f4105ade7cfae2661a171\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022181bc9451b4f4105ade7cfae2661a171\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ll just deal with a few of the questions by the last few speakers. Firstly, Glen Bennett asks whether I am comfortable with so many statutes being included in fast track? Yes, we are. That\u2019s why it\u2019s in the bill. Secondly, he asks \u201CWhat is a substantive application?\u201D Well, it is literally an application under the fast track; that is what it means. It\u2019s a standard application to go to the expert panel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ERachel Brooking made a number of points. In relation to small and medium projects versus large projects, yes, she\u2019s right that we need to make it easier for small and medium projects. We agree. That is why we have a comprehensive programme of Resource Management Act (RMA) reform, in particular quite a large suite of national direction coming next year, which respectfully builds on some of the work developed by the last Government. We\u2019re now picking up some of where they left off, in some respects. I won\u2019t get ahead of Cabinet decisions, but it\u2019s definitely true to say that we can do a better job of synthesising the parent legislation with clear instructions and directions around what the Government considers to be important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn particular, we can set standards to reduce the need for resource consents, and everyone seems to be on board with that. One of the great failures of the RMA over the last 20 or so years is that we haven\u2019t been better at doing that. Simon Court, in particular, my under-secretary, is doing a good amount of work there around standards. Anyway, that\u2019s a bit of a preview for next year, but she is right that we need to do a better job with small and medium projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to non-settled iwi, there are a range of protections\u2014not just for settled iwi\u2014throughout the bill as well. In particular, I would point her to the make-up of the panels where there has to be a person on the panel with the knowledge of te ao M\u0101ori and M\u0101ori development. There\u2019s also provisions in there around ineligible M\u0101ori land, for example, as well; that was well canvassed last night.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to The Remarkables project which, to be honest, I\u2019m not familiar with\u2014I\u2019m not from down there. But it\u2019s good to see that she\u2019s a frequent user of the great ski field\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276ba88cb2d824f6b9f79eb5265e5613b\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: My family is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc11bec0d41a4873b32fbf83239889e8\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, your family is; OK, that\u2019s fair enough. I mean, as I said last night, I\u2019m not intending to entertain a dialogue about each particular project, largely because, for some of them, I have no great familiarity with the project. The point is, again, as we covered last night\u2014the debate is becoming repetitious\u2014the bill does not consent these projects. The bill expedites their processing into the fast-track panel process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EShe asks about community input. The reality is, as happened under the previous COVID-19 fast track, applicants don\u2019t just apply and randomly work their way through the process and through the consenting process, kind of on a whim. There\u2019s a huge amount of pre work that goes into preparing these applications; draft conditions that they themselves propose to the panel to be set, and there\u2019s a bit of a back and forward and a dialogue about what conditions should be set and which ones are appropriate. That is completely acceptable; we don\u2019t envisage that process changing. Part of that is the community engagement that the member talks about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EVery often, particularly when it comes to energy projects, for example, there\u2019s a huge amount of community consultation, engagement\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b1d92c92b27403aaeb59ce502f776af\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s because it\u2019s required; it\u2019s not in this bill. We\u2019ll get to that in Part 2. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247918ecba10d47289da998e707384baa\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well\u2014and in relation to her point around, \u201CWell, it\u2019s a private development on conservation land.\u201D, yeah, it is. There\u2019s private developments on conservation land up and down the country, and this gets to the point, again, which I\u2019ve made about seven times now, which is that if your view is that private development should just not be eligible for fast track, well, that\u2019s a legitimate point of view, but it\u2019s not one the\u00A0Government holds. Again, I just repeat the point: private development can have public benefits because we live in a mixed economy. There will be public benefits from that particular project that the member is talking about, in the same way that there are public benefits from privately run renewable energy projects. Lan Pham, her colleague, agrees, because that was her precise point for much of her speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWe agree. The Opposition\u2019s got to get its ducks in a row about what their actual point is. Private projects that have private profit for private gain can have public benefits. We stand by that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022727cd6e69bef404b93be3c9b08d0b963\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022727cd6e69bef404b93be3c9b08d0b963\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chair. There is a comment there made by the Minister responsible for RMA Reform that concerns me, and I think it warrants a response from you. Last night, you\u2019ll be aware, there was a significant ruling made by the Speaker when recalled by this House that was considered, and came about as a result of a decent amount of debate on both sides of the House. Now, at the end of that ruling the Speaker said, \u201CThe Chairperson would be justified in allowing a more considered and lengthy discussion in the committee stages.\u201D That was a quote, but it was clear that he was referring to Schedule 2, which was originally advised by the Clerk that it was out of order. The presiding officer at the time agreed with that, and then the Speaker ruled differently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EGiven that is a direct quote from his ruling, which the presiding officer subsequently clarified to the House that that does mean the Government can expect a lengthy and detailed debate about that schedule, for the Minister to stand up in one of the very few questions about specific projects and say that he is not going to enter into a debate about, or doesn\u2019t want to entertain a debate about specific projects\u2014I think the committee needs some clarity here. Normally, if a Minister refuses to engage in questions, that means that we have an even longer debate because for a closure motion to be considered, the Minister\u2019s engagement in that is a factor. If that is the case, directly contrary to the ruling that the Minister made, we\u2019re in a difficult situation here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228001ca98556c445084a2b403e7e77c16\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The Speaker made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022441ab53a418d4e7db34d8fac09bca482\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Apologies, the Speaker made, and I think we need some clarity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ffc40ab3fd6413983c6b4bfe32e29c4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The member has anticipated exactly what I was going to say when I came in. I\u2019ve been following this debate for several hours, including being in the Chair\u2014that we have traversed much of Part 1 and questions from here on in, without risking a closure motion, need to be around Schedule 2, and that\u2019s what the Chair will be looking for. I\u2019m ruling that the points you made are the points I was about to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed2b67c431cc4130ac6a80a2a99eaa5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed2b67c431cc4130ac6a80a2a99eaa5d\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E I want the Minister responsible for RMA Reform to tell the committee how many tens of millions will Winton Land Co. make on the value of their project that is in Schedule 2 on the passing of this bill. This is Winton\u2019s project. [Holds up picture of planned development] It\u2019s very close to the electorate of Manurewa and, as the local MP in Manurewa, I have an interest in it. The Minister is proposing to expedite the process for Winton here, which also comes into contracts with another project on this fast-track list. The route of Mill Road, which is being expedited by the fast-track bill as well, goes right through the middle of Winton\u2019s project. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWinton Land Co. has a right to buy this land. They paid for that right earlier, and so any uplift in the value of that land makes their project significantly more valuable. The option to buy becomes millions of dollars more valuable when it is expedited to become residential land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ERight now, it\u2019s rural land. Every MP in this House who is a rural MP knows that rural land zoning is incredibly important to those developers who are land bankers or those developers who expect local projects to progress on their land, like New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) projects. NZTA is now being told by the Minister in this bill to purchase land from these landowners which, last year, was worth only $1 million, $2 million, or $3 million, but which will now be in the tens of millions. This is a public Government entity which is now going to pay out tens of millions of dollars in taxpayers\u2019 money for land which was not valuable before and is now. It is not only a private benefit; that is public money going into the hands of Winton Land Co. for a residential development that they have lobbied successive Governments for, and it has been turned down over and over again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWinton Land Co. donated $100,000 to the National Party in its campaign year. Its board members include Steven Joyce, a previous Minister from the National Party. This is public money going into private hands. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThere is also an element of private benefit here which is extraordinary. We have rules which require private developers to share the public cost of their developments. This development will cost Auckland Council a huge amount in the infrastructure that is required to build this kind of development: in roads, in pipes, in playgrounds, in libraries, and in facilities for commercial development. All of that is on the line here when this is being expedited in a way where Auckland Council cannot require the developer to put in the kind of infrastructure that will cost the developer many millions more. Not only have they made a huge amount of money when this passes, but they have also saved a huge amount on the infrastructure, which will then be passed on to Auckland ratepayers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EPeople in the electorate of Manurewa will be bearing the cost of this for a generation if the infrastructure is put back on to their rates bill\u2014back on to the people in New Zealand who can least afford it\u2014to build hundreds of new houses that will cost this area in terms of infrastructure. Yes, we need those houses, but we do not need this at the expense of the people who will be paying for it in my electorate. It should be funded by the people who are making the exorbitant profits out of this which this bill confers on them. Not only will they be making a huge amount on the options that they have to buy\u2014overnight, when this passes\u2014straight from the public purse, but they will be making that on the expediting of their projects through an almost guaranteed set of consenting requirements that are fresh and new in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThis is unlike anything we have had before. This is the closest New Zealand has ever come to cronyism through the legislative process. This is wrong, and this project should be struck out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022985c5d8889c8472caf47be643cdd136c\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022628b6d6ee71640bda52aba8ba4034a08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022628b6d6ee71640bda52aba8ba4034a08\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before the Minister speaks, I\u2019ll just set this out. We\u2019re on territory here where we\u2019re going to be talking about donations to parties and, obviously, the projects. The unique nature of this bill means that I\u2019m ruling that it is more relevant in this particular bill than it may be in other legislation. However, just be wary that where any of these allegations go towards individuals, that is where the line will be got close to. I just make that ruling now, because I anticipate that as we go into these projects, there may be more of that, and that\u2019s the line that the Chair will be looking at. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002299ff25328fef49299532b376b698acbc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299ff25328fef49299532b376b698acbc\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Chairperson. Thank you for that, and I note that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb also has a point to make. Just for absolute clarity\u2014thank you for that\u2014there was no issue with what was said in that contribution. You\u2019re just pre-empting that and indicating that the debate and contributions on this\u2014is it exceptional to the normal process, and what might not normally be accepted will potentially be accepted here and you\u2019ve drawn a line as to what might be? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00220e118e7fd8f24988a8aeaa8453adc23a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e118e7fd8f24988a8aeaa8453adc23a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s not. I\u2019d just say that the line remains, but, again, taking into account the unique nature, where allegations start to come towards individuals is where members need to be very aware.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e38d367aa91e4f4b8f4a7c5134b75408\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: But that contribution was OK?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f94f0059ebe049e5bbdad8ba03461869\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u0027Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: That contribution was fine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260058bc6174545e689ef526601b4a964\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0ffdccf74184aedade1807728b70297\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Webb, were you looking for a point of order? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2a74a5ae5c74046abeb591256d1e896\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2a74a5ae5c74046abeb591256d1e896\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. My point of order was\u2014because I do think clarity is really important here, going forwards. I accept the obvious statement that members are not to make allegations of corruption against members in the House or that any particular legislative initiative is being done because of, essentially, a corrupt purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI was concerned that you\u2019ve suggested that individuals can\u2019t be named, because there are many projects in Schedule 2 which individuals absolutely have their hands on, and there are\u00A0legitimate questions around transparency and process about which it\u2019s entirely appropriate to ask\u2014not because there\u2019s an allegation of corruption in there, but to give the Government an opportunity to show that there is transparency and honesty and that the public can have confidence in exactly that. I just want to make sure that you\u2019re not ruling that members can\u2019t say, \u201CIn respect of this person, who made a donation to that party, how can you assure me that there is no invidious nature to that?\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002216b76b34ba2044b2b4b80f8747a21fc2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216b76b34ba2044b2b4b80f8747a21fc2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, well, when I say, \u201Can individual\u201D, I mean an individual within the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002270417d1e308a415b87d12d365ef75b94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270417d1e308a415b87d12d365ef75b94\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E Well, it\u2019s easier when you\u2019ve got privilege, eh? If the member Arena Williams really believes that, say what she said outside the House. I bet she won\u2019t\u2014I bet she won\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe first thing is to publicly acknowledge that, in relation to the particular project the member\u2019s talking about, as that went through the Cabinet process I declared a conflict, out of an abundance of caution, on advice from the Cabinet Office in relation to a press release I issued in relation to that particular project back in 2022, from memory. It was actually about K\u0101inga Ora. It wasn\u2019t actually about the specific project but, out of an abundance of caution, I declared that conflict. The member makes a series of facile allegations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8f61792f0f446cca1f93dcf47d8e62a\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abf27129b4ec4897bbe7109dc56f2c2e\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, firstly, the allegation that infrastructure will just be delivered for\u2014it was actually unclear what the member was saying; it\u2019s pretty disappointing. She is allegedly the spokesperson for building and construction, but her knowledge about how housing and infrastructure development works\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228108c0c1488344b0830a2b8738321624\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Get personal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecd3a932f9504bd6ab9720c160c7d380\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014has now proven to be sadly lacking. Oh, I\u2019m getting personal? Are you for real? What a joke.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EFirstly, councils are able to charge development contributions for housing developments. The bill does not change that. You\u2019ve got to separate out consent for building of houses. It\u2019s interesting to see the sort of nimby attitudes from members opposite so far in relation to housing. Auckland needs more housing, but, anyway, I make that as a general point. The development contribution regime and infrastructure is a wholly separate issue from consent for housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe other point I\u2019d make here is that the Government actually has a comprehensive programme of work under way. It\u2019s called \u201CGoing for Housing Growth\u201D. It actually builds on what the last Government started in relation to infrastructure funding in the form of the Infrastructure Funding and Financing Act, which was passed by the last Government, building on work by the last National Government. It\u2019s actually a strain of continuation here, and the core principle of that is to make growth pay for growth. I actually agree with the one decent point the member made, which is that the beneficiaries of new infrastructure to support housing should pay for that infrastructure, and that is the thrust of the Government\u2019s housing policies. We\u2019ve got work under way around\u2014that\u2019s not dealt with in this bill; it\u2019s not relevant to this bill, but that is very important. If we\u2019re now going to go through every single project one by one, I\u2019ll just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cc011614d4242d0bbf2eb26c3ab21a4\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Yes we are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228590d6f71c134f189e00d59b2f30ee81\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, OK, I\u2019ll just make the general point I made right at the start, which is the point I\u2019ll continue to make, which is that we ran a process insulated from Ministers and the Government around projects that could be considered for inclusion in the schedule. We then took advice from the expert group and we put not all of them but we put 149 of them into the bill. The bill does not grant consent for those projects or the relevant approvals. The bill puts them into the process to go to the expert panel, and many of the issues that the members will have with a variety of the different projects\u2014all of those issues will be dealt with through the expert panel process. The answer is the same for all of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2d5963a8e1f4b00b69b17f5a2ac06a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2d5963a8e1f4b00b69b17f5a2ac06a1\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I want to draw the attention of the Minister responsible for RMA Reform to the Bream Bay proposal\u2014the Bream Bay sand extraction project\u2014which is a project to extract, using a motorised trailing suction dredge, up to approximately 150,000 cubic metres of sand per annum for an initial period of three years and up to approximately 250,000 cubic metres per annum thereafter. The approximate geographical location is a 17-square-kilometre area of seabed in the marine coastal area of Bream Bay, Northland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003ENow, my question for the Minister is: given his recent statements about non-inclusion of Te Tiriti considerations, what is the say and rights of iwi impacted by that project if they do not have customary marine title, if they are not settled, and if they do not have mana whakahono? If we go to Part 1, clause 4A, the meaning of ineligible activity, subclause (1)(b) of that\u2014\u201Can activity that\u2014(i) would occur in a customary marine title area; and (ii) has not been agreed to in writing by the customary marine title group:\u201D\u2014there are numerous tribes of Whang\u0101rei who are not settled, do not have customary marine title, and do not have mana whakahono. Is the Minister saying they get no say whatsoever in determinations around the likes of that project at Bream Bay?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EIt is, of course, but one example, but such a substantive sand-mining project that will certainly impact the interests in the rohe and the marine coastal environment, of which those iwi have customary traditional use. Currently, because they don\u2019t have settlement and they don\u2019t have customary marine title, they will get no say. What is the means, Minister, by which they would get a say if it is not in some way a recognition of the broader Crown\u2019s obligation under Te Tiriti o Waitangi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00223b7b80493d524f6eabd107766cedda86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b7b80493d524f6eabd107766cedda86\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman. Last night, I asked the Minister in the chair, the Hon Chris Bishop\u2014and I thank him for his reply\u2014in respect of a large mining proposal for what is a project which extends, essentially, from the Clutha River to the Manuherikia River. This is a huge area of land which, if mined, would be the largest mine ever in the history of New Zealand. I asked the Minister how he can justify doing that without rights of public input, as opposed to discretions for public input. I would also suggest to the Minister that one of the reasons why fast track, so far, has not had a tarnished reputation is that there was judgment exercised as to when projects were too big and controversial to go through a non-public process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe fast track that we introduced post-COVID\u2014which has been very successful, and the Minister has said is the model for this legislation\u2014had a number of safeguards in it. We had a discussion in Cabinet as to whether there should be a group of Ministers authorising projects to go through fast track, or whether it should be an individual Minister. Cabinet, in the end, said that it should be the individual Minister for the Environment\u2014who happened to be me\u2014but it was the office of the Minister for the Environment that was chosen in order to avoid lobbying and to create pressure through groups of Ministers to get certain sorts of projects on the list. I would suggest to the Minister that that was a wise way of protecting the reputation of fast track, because the risk that the Government is taking with the reputation of fast track is that they\u2019ll so tarnish the reputation of fast track that there will be a push against the legitimacy of fast-track decisions more generally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EFirst of all, my question is: did they consider just having an individual Minister with an environmental Resource Management Act (RMA) bent\u2014which also goes to development, because the RMA is also meant to achieve development, not just protection of the environment; it\u2019s meant to balance it too?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe second issue is that I\u2019m intrigued as to why it is that the South Island Resource Recovery Ltd project is included in Waimate. This is the first ever large waste-incineration project to be considered in New Zealand. Indeed, the National member for Waitaki took an interest in it during the election and, I think, said he\u2019d resign\u2014I might be overstating it\u2014or took very strong opposition to that particular project, which is now being pushed through under fast track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, why I\u2019m interested in that is that that project came to me as Minister for the Environment at the request of the local council, who said that they lacked the wherewithal and the competencies to properly deal with what is a very, very complex application relating to the burning of plastic waste, amongst other things, which, in addition to toxic fume risks\u2014and they can probably be moderated\u2014does have greenhouse gas implications because carbon in, carbon out. If you burn plastic, you actually release carbon dioxide to the atmosphere, and there is no current way of avoiding that. I understand this application doesn\u2019t propose to capture the carbon dioxide. Faced with that, I, as Minister for the Environment, said, \u201CLook, this is the first of these events. We need to actually look at it properly. We\u2019re not necessarily opposed to it. It needs to be properly considered.\u201D We, as a Government, decided that we would refer that to the Environment Court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIf the applicant had pushed that through the Environment Court, they\u2019d just about be through the process by now, because it\u2019s well over a year ago since that was done. Instead, they\u2019ve gamed the system to get on this process, which doesn\u2019t have any right of public input, and, indeed, probably at law, the greenhouse gas implications can\u2019t be properly considered; whereas through a referral to the Environment Court, they specifically could be considered, and, indeed, my direction as Minister, asks particular attention to be paid to that particular issue. Instead of actually drawing upon the wisdom of the Environment Court judges, who are wise in these matters and would hear evidence on all sides, in respect of what is the first of these, it\u2019s on this list in Schedule 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EMy question is: why? What justification is there? It was already going through a one-step process which would have kicked the tires on it properly; there would have been appropriate public consideration of the issues. How can the Minister justify the South Island Resource Recovery project?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u00220a591cf7b9914a1f8fcc89d5141f4138\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a591cf7b9914a1f8fcc89d5141f4138\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I appreciate the opportunity to take a call on the bill, and I\u2019m going to specifically ask the Minister responsible for RMA Reform questions relating to a project listed in Schedule 2. It\u2019s a New Zealand Transport Agency Waka Kotahi project and it is the Hope Bypass in my electorate of Nelson. Labour supports this project and we were really pleased to include this in our version of the Government policy statement on transport, but I do have some questions for the Minister, and they do come off the back of the fact the schedule has come to us at this stage of the process and not through the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI will start with some questions I have that are quite specific and are related to a recent media report from two of our mayors, and some of the wording that is in the schedule that could make it difficult for the mayors to get the change they want to the project. I don\u2019t necessarily agree with the mayors on their view. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThe thing about the Hope Bypass is that there is cross-party support, at least between Labour and National, for the project, but there are some differences around the edges of the project. I want to talk specifically to parts of Schedule 2. It\u2019s called the Hope Bypass. In the project description, it says, \u201CConstruct approximately 4.2 kilometres of new highway bypassing Richmond and Hope townships, altering the existing designation, and additional land acquisition outside of that designation.\u201D That is really specific in the schedule, and the mayors of Nelson and Tasman, the Hon Dr Nick Smith and Tim King, have recently called, on 16 November\u2014and it\u2019s a story in The Press\u2014for the scope of the project to no longer bypass Hope. They want the bypass to only cover the Richmond piece and then for the project to be extended out further into Nelson City. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t necessarily agree with them, by the way, but I think what the process is showing us is that if the schedule had been presented in the select committee process, the mayors would have seen it and been able to submit to the select committee process, perhaps with the wording to be less specific. What concerns me is that if the NZTA together with the two councils, through the design process\u2014because we\u2019re actually still at the design process of that road\u2014do decide to agree with the mayors and make that change, then what\u2019s going to need to happen? Is there going to need to be further legislative change coming back to this House to amend the schedule? These are the kinds of small technical details that exist in a lot of these projects, where there\u2019s been real specifics written into the schedule but it might actually have some unintended consequences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of other questions I have for the Minister on this particular project, and just on that, I understand the transport Minister is going to be in the electorate on Thursday about this project, so, hopefully, he might have some further things to say on this. There are questions in the community as to how many lanes. There is certainly a question\u2014and there\u2019s nothing mentioning it in the schedule\u2014about protecting the existing cycleway, which is part of the Great Taste Trail, which was funded by the Key Government. It is a fantastic part of our electorate, and there is concern in the community that we might lose part of that important tourism infrastructure. Also, the name causes confusion. People might want to change the name of the project. People often don\u2019t understand where it goes when we call it the Hope Bypass.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThe schedule talks about land acquisition, and I\u2019m really interested in understanding the interrelationship between this legislation and an important court case that is currently making its way through the courts, which is the tenths. I understand the Minister might not be able to talk to this, but there was a recent ruling in favour of Wakat\u016B Incorporation in relation to the tenths land. It has been issued with NZTA land potentially being subject to claims under those cases. In fact, a small project just around the corner from where this project will happen had to have significant changes because the land couldn\u2019t be transferred from NZTA to the polytechnic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThere are some technical legal issues that I\u2019m concerned perhaps have not been considered, but my fundamental question to the Minister is around the specifics related to this project. I want to be really specific that my question is about how specific it is here in the legislation and what the Minister intends to do if, indeed, the mayors and NZTA do actually agree to change, through the design process, the scope of the Hope Bypass project.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u002256d9e74469ec4f9688603e68b77c7e23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256d9e74469ec4f9688603e68b77c7e23\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Before I begin, I just want to seek some clarification from the Chair. I understand that we are currently moving on to Schedule 2, but I have not been able to take a call at all for any of Part 1. Would the Chair allow me to ask three very specific clarification questions for clauses\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a760e1bb8e2043b68a8fdeadf37c461f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. The fact that the member didn\u2019t participate earlier doesn\u2019t mean the subject matter hasn\u2019t been covered, but what I have just declared is that now the debate has been going for some time. The Speaker\u2019s ruling last night was that it should be allowed to extend perhaps beyond the normal time that it would do, where it pertains to Schedule 2. Calls outside Schedule 2 do risk straying off or into an area that may invite a closure motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ff981fec999420fa8d32cc7649144bd\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: OK. I will stick to Schedule 2, then. Thank you for that clarification, Mr Chair. And, again, just a reminder to the governing members, as well, that this is a 235-page amendment that was dropped on our lap yesterday, with no public consultation. Please, bear with us while we do, actually, for many of us, speak to our portfolios and also our communities. Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EMy question is around the fact that, in Schedule 2, there is a particular project, which is the Summerset Retirement Villages Ltd, and it is the Summerset Retirement Village in Mosgiel, in the deep South. I have an Amendment Paper on this, for this particular one to be removed. Now, the reason is that I would like to ask the Minister responsible for RMA Reform around what he said before in terms of public good and public benefit in the context of this particular project. I think the key word here\u2014and this is something that my colleague Lan Pham was trying to get through as well\u2014is the proportionality test of public benefit. In the case of retirement villages, now there are a number of retirement villages that are part of the 149 projects, but this is the only one that is specifically just on a new retirement village.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, many of us, with the committee of the whole House, have gone through various bits and pieces in the South Island, in the deep South, around aged-care facilities, but one of the things that we do notice\u2014one of the things\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a85ff85b859d452490588e9b442d2e0e\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: The bill does a lot for the South Island. The Government\u2019s delivering for the South Island.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d6664665bcd44729444e7c315cbde79\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: I said the deep South. One of the few things that we have noticed, and particularly in the context of the retirement village, is the fact that there\u2019s currently a live review of the Retirement Villages Act, which is currently with the Associate Minister of Housing. Fundamentally, this is to do with the way that retirement villages have been allowed to operate and take advantage of our seniors and elderly, from the perspective of not sharing capital, deferred management fees, not paying out capital when they move out, or sometimes when they\u2019re forced to move out due to additional health reasons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, this is something that the Retirement Village Residents Association\u2014this is within my seniors portfolio\u2014has spoken a lot about in terms of the way that the privatisation of retirement villages has had a detrimental effect on our seniors, and the lives of our seniors. That, coupled with the fact that we\u2019re seeing an increasing number of our seniors\u2014possibly, now, 40 percent, up to 50 percent\u2014no longer owning their own property, which means that they are no longer able to have the capital, because you have to pay cash upfront to enter one of these retirement villages; they\u2019re no longer able to pay cash upfront to access some of these retirement villages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EIn the context of this particular project, I would like to ask the Minister what sort of public consultation has been done with senior residents\u2014with Grey Power, with other relevant communities and organisations\u2014around the need, in the beginning, for a new retirement village, purely just a new retirement village, in that area, and whether the companies are able to show proof that they\u2019re able to house or able to actually bring people in as part of that. Again, we\u2019re seeing that retirement villages are struggling because people are not able to pay up front to access the licence to occupy some of these retirement villages. If the Minister wouldn\u2019t mind clarifying what data is there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002236520b9ad24f4ded8da1103dbd831bde\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236520b9ad24f4ded8da1103dbd831bde\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I\u2019ll deal with a few of the questions that have been raised in the last few contributions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EFirstly, to start where we left off with the last contribution, which was, basically, a long rant about the problems in the Retirement Villages Act, which, as Lawrence Xu-Nan rightly notes, is under\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221eb9e9c98f84eedb5f4d6111144c329\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: So why are you fast tracking it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022388e3b7e8e1f4c9685b9f28a79b14755\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, notwithstanding that the Act itself is under review, the Government does not have a problem with retirement villages. If the member wants to campaign on abolishing privately owned retirement villages, which provide residential accommodation very happily for people up and down the country, that\u2019s over to the Green Party. But that was just, really, a long rant about some of the alleged problems with retirement villages\u2019 practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EHe says, \u201CHow do we know there\u2019s a need for it?\u201D Well, last time I checked, the Parliament and the Government wasn\u2019t in the business of determining need for retirement villages. Normally, what happens is that, if someone wants to build one, they go and build one and get consent for it. If they can\u2019t make a buck out of it, they don\u2019t build it. And if it fails, it fails. We don\u2019t run a planned economy here, at least certainly not on this side of the House. I think, to be honest, a lot of what he was talking about is really away from the bill. In relation to Rachel Boyack, which was a really good question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022014657db0c174b47ade1e61baeb4863d\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll pass it on to her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e479174e2056425992d12764759b5eef\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Righty-o, pass it on. Very good. I wasn\u2019t going to breach the Standing Orders by commenting on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to Rachel Boyack, her issue is, basically, summarising it\u2014well, interestingly, the most interesting part of her speech was, it turns out, that the Opposition supports one of the projects in the Schedule 2 list, which is the Hope Bypass. That\u2019s quite interesting. It might be an interesting exercise to go through and work out how many of the projects the Opposition actually supports, because it turns out there\u2019s at least one of them, which is the Hope Bypass. That\u2019s interesting. We support all of them, so it\u2019d be an interesting little exercise to work out how many of them the Opposition supports. But, anyway, it turns out they support at least one of them, which is the Hope Bypass.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EHer substantive issue was about the route in, I think it is, page 126. I went away and checked and the basic point is, I\u2019m advised by the officials, that the definition of project provides some flexibility. The definition of project at clause 4 includes an activity that is involved in or that supports and is subsidiary to a project referred to in Schedule 2. Her point is that the route listed in Schedule 2, in relation to the Hope Bypass, is quite specific. The mayors have got a different route, which might be better. That\u2019ll be worked through later. Her point was, essentially, that it\u2019s good it\u2019ll be fast tracked but we just want to make sure that we can fast track that particular route, if indeed the route changes. I\u2019m advised the answer is yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e4387ea611441b1ae385cb1681424e9\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fec132485e1f463691d7b071fe987964\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on\u2014hang on. I\u2019ve got two more points to make. I\u2019m trying, in the interests of completeness\u2014members ask questions; they\u2019re going to get answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe Hon David Parker asked, basically, why is it not just left to one individual Minister? And it is. It\u2019s just that it\u2019s not the Minister for the Environment, which it was under the last fast track. It\u2019s the Minister for Infrastructure, which happens to be held by me at the moment. That reflects the fact that it\u2019s a development statute. We\u2019ve changed that, but there\u2019s a requirement\u2014I forget the exact clause\u2014to consult with the Minister for the Environment as well. That was one of the changes made through the Environment Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESteve Abel asks about a particular project and what you do if you\u2019re a relevant iwi and you\u2019re not\u2014it was a slightly confused question, but I would just direct Mr Abel to clause 24M, which is about the panel inviting comments on substantive applications. There\u2019s a long list of people that have to be invited to comment, and actually, this question goes to many of the questions that I suspect have been raised or might be raised in the future: relevant local authorities, relevant iwi authorities, relevant Treaty settlement entities, protected customary rights groups, groups under the marine and coastal area Act, tangata whenua of an area which the substantive application relates to, m\u0101taitai reserves, local fisheries, the owners of the land, the occupiers of the land, the Minister for the Environment, relevant administrating agencies, requiring authorities\u2014there\u2019s a long list.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThis kind of idea that it\u2019s all kind of like everything just goes off to a panel and no one gets a say and no one gets any public input is, with respect, not accurate, and members need to read the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00222f6a1299efdf4343929ad850f7d85a77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f6a1299efdf4343929ad850f7d85a77\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just comment that, while the Minister\u2019s colleagues are vigorously seeking a closure motion, I wonder whether he will consider he has now invited the Opposition to go through each project. The Minister might need to just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f8dc9b6d61741639f14ed8141943d3b\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: I said it might be interesting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227425fc0d64ae4e2e9ae39ec12d676aea\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Might be interesting. But I\u2019ll also make another comment that we are going to be speaking on projects, but just mentioning a project and\u00A0taking that as an excuse to do a broad-ranging presentation is also not advisable at this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2c2201c96a447cdaf5cada5430ded75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2c2201c96a447cdaf5cada5430ded75\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I can name a few projects, actually, but they\u2019re all themed around a particular question and whether the Minister responsible for RMA Reform has received some advice in relation to these different projects. I\u2019ll go through them: the Beachlands South Limited Partnership, so Beachlands South\u2014that\u2019s on page 114 of Amendment Paper 238, Schedule 2; the \u014Choka Residential Subdivision on page 115; the Gibbston Village, which is page 118; the Plimmerton Farm, on page 121\u2014I\u2019ll keep going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f26a909a5bd847c789c3c758a66abef7\u0022\u003EHon Dr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: Slow down\u2014not all at once.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022988523ef99d54d8a8c067b68b1904a35\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I know\u2014not all at once. Ha, ha! Page 132, that is\u2014actually, no, not that one, I\u2019ll come back to that one, actually. And the Sunfield development, on page 141.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ENow, the reason why I\u2019ve picked out those specific projects, and my question to the Minister, is because each of those projects has a comment around \u201Cenable the potential development of a school\u201D. These are all very large residential development projects, and as part of the project description, there is a sentence at the end of it that says, for example, \u201Cdevelop X residential dwellings, on approximately X hectares land\u201D\u2014add commercial, add retail. But, actually, the really key theme which strings these different projects together is to enable the potential development of a school. However, as I pointed to, there are other projects right throughout this schedule, such as Stratford Park Limited, that have a very similar example of where it\u2019s basically developing the land for multi-use, for different complexes and facilities, and hosting agricultural and pastoral shows, etc., etc.\u2014different uses\u2014but it doesn\u2019t actually say it won\u2019t enable the potential for a school.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EMy question to the Minister is: as part of the weighting for those projects, was the ability to enable the potential development of a school\u2014how much weight was that given by the panel in suggesting this to Ministers, and did the Minister or the panel receive independent advice from the Ministry of Education as to the development of these potential schools? I could understand why you would weight your decision very differently if there was the potential for the enablement of a school; however, I would like to know whether the Ministry of Education actually provided that advice, or was that just part of the specifications that that commercial developer decided to input on their own? Unless they\u2019re looking at doing a private school and therefore developing the private school by themselves using their own money, I wouldn\u2019t have thought that having a sentence like that as part of the project description, or as part of the project evaluation as to whether it should be given greater weighting, should be in the absence of the Ministry of Education, who does provide the schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EIf I look to Plimmerton Farms, which is a development within my electorate of Mana\u2014yes, our population of Porirua City is growing and there is a need for schools in the northern area. However, I would also argue that, as part of the Porirua regeneration\u2014the east project\u2014for a number of years, K\u0101inga Ora, the local government, and schools within that area have been asking the Ministry of Education to do a review of that area because of the population, the number of people that live there, the development of houses. That\u2019s had to be something that over a number of years\u2014and we still haven\u2019t come to a conclusion as part of that review\u2014the Ministry of Education has had to lead, because they\u2019re the ones, in the end, via Crown funding, that then develop this infrastructure of a school. There\u2019s also, when you think about it\u2014I\u2019m not too sure where these other projects are and what the school network looks like in those other projects; I can only really speak to the one I know in particular here. For example, there was an Aotea development, which was a number of stages\u2014I think it was, like, 19 stages. For a number of years there, the community had been asking for a school because the two closest schools are oversubscribed, and the Ministry of Education has basically been trying to put money into those two current local schools to build more buildings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EFor me, it\u2019s a really important decision as to a development, but when they put that proposal through to the panel, how much does that actually weigh on that decision? How much information was given by the ministry? It would be concerning to me if it was just, \u201COh, we have the potential for a school to be built here\u201D, but there was no actual official advice as to the wider network and the implications of the wider network, and therefore the implications on Crown funding. If there is going to be potential for more schools to be built in the future, who\u2019s going to pay for that? If it\u2019s not the developer, I don\u2019t understand why that would be part of the consideration. I would like the Minister to be able to provide a bit of elucidation around that, the weighting of it as part of the project assessment by the panel or the Minister himself; whether the Ministry of Education was included as part of this advice that they received around that particular weighting. Otherwise, I can\u2019t understand why there is a distinction between some of these projects which have the ability or potential to enable schools but a number of other projects don\u2019t even mention it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EWhere did that come from, who was advised or consulted as part of that, and were wider network implications\u2014and therefore the Crown having to fund it if it\u2019s not the private developer themselves; who is having to fund these? I understand it\u2019s the potential to enable it, but surely there must be some advice that was given by officials or someone as to why they could put that in a project description which is now in Schedule 2 of this particular bill going through the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00229b3dd438054346caafac845c77a0aa15\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b3dd438054346caafac845c77a0aa15\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I do just want to note a couple of things before we talk about a particular project I\u2019m interested in. It was that the Speaker\u2019s ruling last night did give us the scope to discuss this bill in quite a bit of detail, particularly with that huge Amendment Paper that landed and in particular all these projects which didn\u2019t go through a select committee process. We\u2019re trying to replicate that process now with a bit of back and forth as to many of these projects. In fact, I hope we do have time to discuss all of them, and I note that the Minister responsible for RMA Reform did invite a little bit of information there as to whether the Opposition agrees with some of the projects or not, and we\u2019ll get through that as we go through these projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI want to draw the committee\u2019s attention to a particular project. It\u2019s a KiwiRail project; it\u2019s on page 120 of Amendment Paper 238, in Schedule 2, and it\u2019s the four-tracking from Westfield to Pukekohe. Looking at this particular project\u2014and the Minister looks very satisfied that I\u2019ve raised this one\u2014and it is actually one that was something that was proposed under the previous Government as well\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243e63f038d8249359ee9c54be7ad6341\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: You should have funded it. You did the three-track, not the four-track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022091373d702df436192e9683027a5f8f9\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s sort of one of those ones which the Minister might like to put a tick in his list of the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228238034c455949e5b968d12348b56b58\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: The benefit-cost ratio\u2019s higher with a four-track. Bill should have funded the whole thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd7fc4cf04534f139730e57cc36a2f81\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014projects that the Opposition agrees to. If I look at this project, this four-tracking\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022169740e4bf0e4f8cbfa2ebdfef8b880f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I just invite the Minister in the chair to know he\u2019s got a microphone there. When he does yell across the Chamber, he\u2019s giving himself a big advantage in that his words are heard by those listening. If he could contain himself, it would be appreciated\u2014or at least give me a warning and I\u2019ll turn the microphone off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022508ec79959554f60991665c7895e2c5e\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: I may need to seek another few seconds at the end of this call because of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWhat it\u2019s going to do is widen the existing rail corridor, all right, and expand the North Island Main Trunk line between Westfield Junction\u2014that\u2019s Newmarket in Auckland\u2014and Pukekohe. It goes from a two-track to a four-track, which is pretty interesting. A bit of grade separation going on at Westfield Junction. Of course, in order to enable four-tracking, you\u2019ve got to widen the bridges and maybe change the configuration of some station platforms. Interestingly, in fact, we\u2019re going to remove some level crossings. Of course, we\u2019re going to support that. Level crossings are a known danger, and it\u2019s a good thing to remove level crossings. Of course, alongside all of this, we\u2019ll need new track, new signals, and electrified lines\u2014so, quite a big project.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe reason I want to discuss it in particular is because this was on the cards before the change of Government. There was a bit of discussion on it. The big thing about this is that it goes through residential Onehunga. There\u2019s going to be a big trench dug through Onehunga in order to enable this, as far as I can tell\u2014it\u2019s not specified in what\u2019s going on in the bill, but that was the project that we had under way. One of the candidates for the seat of Maungakiekie said\u2014I\u2019m going to quote. On this heavy rail going through, this big rail corridor going through, one of the candidates in that electorate said, \u201CI think I might cross the floor on that one, or certainly beg leave to differ. That would be such a bad piece of decision making in terms of the impact on this community.\u201D That\u2019s the exact quote from this candidate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe candidate responded to the mood of the community. The community doesn\u2019t want it, the community in Onehunga, and the candidate said, \u201CThey want to hear me say that if I become the local MP, I will lie on the proposed railway tracks.\u201D \u201CAnd I will!\u201D, he went on to say. That candidate became the National Party MP for Maungakiekie. Good on Greg Fleming for standing up for what he perceived the interests of his community to be, but now he\u2019s probably in a bit of a bind, and can I suggest to the Minister that this just might be one of those situations where quite a lot of community consultation might be needed. I\u2019m going to ask the Minister to comment on this because my understanding is\u2014and I\u2019ve been told and I\u2019ve read\u2014that community consultation \u201Cmay\u201D be undertaken but there\u2019s no \u201Cmust\u201D about it. The legislation enables consultation, but it doesn\u2019t require consultation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI guess that\u2019s part of the point of the fast track, but, in that case, what is the Minister going to say to his own colleague, who says that the community is really opposed to this particular rail development? I think it highlights a real problem\u2014[Bell rung] Mr Chair, just a few more seconds?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022c881f5bfe8bf47cfb54704c314efe86f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c881f5bfe8bf47cfb54704c314efe86f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u0027Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Damien O\u2019Connor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7fd88ac73cc41a8837c3b65f2edaff6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7fd88ac73cc41a8837c3b65f2edaff6\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Sorry, I was little slow there, Mr Chairman. I\u2019m just working my way through Schedule 2\u2014the first time I\u2019ve had a chance to look at it. I\u2019ll start right at the beginning. It relates to the \u0100muri irrigation project, which the Minister responsible for RMA Reform, I understand, has already put up an amendment to\u2014the Balmoral Water Storage Facility project.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI just happened to be in and around Culverden this week, so I\u2019m familiar with some questions that should be asked, and it\u2019s really, to the Minister, on advice that the panel received. This is quite a unique area of North Canterbury. The area runs, basically, between the Waiau River and the Hurunui River. This is the area that currently has irrigation from the Waiau River. There\u2019s quite a complex irrigation system that\u2019s been running for some time. The area is quite dry. It has been converted in the past into dairy operations. In fact, it continues to be developed and transitioned from forestry\u2014a huge area of forestry\u2014into farmland. This Amuri Irrigation Company Limited is going to put in this water storage facility, and the amount of water coming from the Hurunui River will, as the Minister has amended, change from \u201C1.5 million cubic metres\u201D, which is not right, to \u201C1.5 cubic metres of water per second\u201D, which is the proposed extraction rate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EMy questions to the Minister relate to the nitrate levels in the Culverden basin. It\u2019s quite a unique geological area. There are already increasing nitrate levels in that aquifer. My question to the Minister is: what advice did the panel receive regarding the already increasing nitrate levels\u2014whether this project would rapidly increase the nitrate levels in that aquifer, and what would be the long-term consequences of that? As we\u2019ve seen in Waimate\u2014in fact, there were some other projects here that are likely to impact on that\u2014the school at Waimate can\u2019t drink the water because of the nitrate levels in the water supply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t think any New Zealander, whether they be in rural or urban areas, wants to see that degradation continue. Here is a project which, again, continues the irrigation\u2014and I\u2019m not opposed to that at all. I think that has allowed us to expand farming operations, but there are consequences in some areas. As I\u2019ve said before, this is a unique geological area where the nitrates, if not managed properly, will remain in that aquifer, affecting the local community\u2019s ability to get good, fresh water. So, firstly, the question to the Minister: did the panel receive any advice on the nitrate levels and what might happen with this greater level of irrigation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThen the other issue of Ng\u0101i Tahu: Ng\u0101i Tahu are big landowners in the Culverden basin there. They will be potential beneficiaries of this. This will enable more conversion of their forest land into farmland, possibly going from dry stock operations into dairy. The nitrate footprint of both those operations is quite different. What advice did the panel receive, and were there any guidelines as to the utilisation of this water over what kind of farming operations will develop from access to more water facilities? These are really important issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe other cultural question that I have\u2014and the Minister may know this. This will, effectively, be the mixing of water from both the Waiau and from the Hurunui rivers\u2014two different catchments coming into one area for the development of farming operations. As I say, that in itself is a good objective, but we are learning as we go forward about the impacts of inappropriate land use in inappropriate places: the wrong tree in the wrong place or the wrong farm in the wrong place. The questions go to the Minister: what advice did the panel receive when it looked at this application? Are the issues of the cultural mixing of water important; and, in fact, should that be a deal breaker? And how does Ng\u0101i Tahu manage the issues of the cultural values of water and then the commercial objectives of their land development?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s quite a significant project\u2014one that\u2019s No. 1 in the schedule. As I work through, I\u2019m sure I\u2019ll have other questions to the Minister, but I welcome his reply on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002257106b6261f04d1cb903092dfdca3e41\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257106b6261f04d1cb903092dfdca3e41\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll just deal with some of the last few questions. In relation to the Hon Barbara Edmonds\u2019 question around a variety of different housing projects, some of which have schools as part of them, some of them don\u2019t: nothing particularly turns on that, to be honest. Some of the applications proposed included the potential for a school as part of the development, others did not, but that wasn\u2019t determinative as to whether or not they were listed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to her question around the Ministry of Education, I\u2019m advised that the advisory group and Ministers did not receive advice from the Ministry of Education. The wording reflects an option expressed by the applicant to work with the Ministry of Education to include a school in a development down the line\u2014that there may be the potential for a school; there may not be. There\u2019s a whole lot of work that has to go under way around that, and the Government\u2019s got work under way around better school property processes\u2014that\u2019s a separate issue. I think it\u2019s helpful for some of these developments that, when they do take place, developers are thinking ahead about infrastructure, about schools that may or may not be included, but those are kind of subsidiary questions to what we\u2019re actually dealing with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to the Hon Deborah Russell\u2019s point around some of these KiwiRail projects, I think, respectfully, she may be a touch confused. There are two KiwiRail projects; in fact, there are four KiwiRail projects listed. The two she\u2019s talking about are the four-tracking of Westfield to Pukekohe. I happen to know a little bit about this project because I used to be the transport spokesperson. Suffice to say that the Government is\u2014this is the third main line. The last Government funded it; they should have done the fourth main at the same time. The benefit-cost ratio of the fourth main is actually higher if you do them both at the same time. They didn\u2019t do that. It\u2019s quite an odd decision. So that is that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThis allows me to make a general point, which is that consent is different from funding. Just because something might get consent or it might go through to expert panel does not mean it\u2019s funded. There\u2019s billions of dollars\u2019 worth of projects here, and consent is not the same as funding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe point she was making about Avondale-Southdown is a wholly separate project across another part of Auckland. She was attempting to make a political point about a National Party MP. They\u2019re completely separate projects, by the way, but she seemed to think they were the same.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to Damien O\u2019Connor\u2019s project point, I don\u2019t know what advice the panel received; that was a process run separately to Ministers. Many of the issues that he talks about would be considered by an expert panel as it goes through the process, but I don\u2019t have visibility about what advice the advisory group who gave Ministers recommendations received.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8034a1801fd490cb6dc170811ec0604\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8034a1801fd490cb6dc170811ec0604\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2014before I take this call, I have been watching the debate with interest and we have been on Part 1 for four hours. As I indicated last night when I was in this Chair, we can have a bit more of a wide-ranging debate, but I\u2019m starting to hear lots of repetition around the purpose and the environmental issues, which I think have been well answered by the Minister. I understand there\u2019s been a bit of an opening up to the projects this morning. I think, if people could be really specific with something new, that would be really helpful, because we have been on this stage for about four hours, and while we accepted that it could be longer, I\u2019m feeling that there is a lot of repetition from what I\u2019ve heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00228e8a41f99515470dac5811d09bf54809\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e8a41f99515470dac5811d09bf54809\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Chairperson. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for that guidance. I think the committee would benefit from some clarity here, because it wasn\u2019t that long ago that we sought clarification from the presiding officer in the Chair around the ability of the committee, given the Speaker\u2019s ruling last night and the subsequent conversation that I had with you last evening and then with the presiding officer around what that meant in practice, and where we landed was that if members of the Opposition, or, indeed, the Government\u2014so members of this committee\u2014wished to speak specifically to each of the 149 projects listed in Schedule 2, that would be permissible. Now, subsequent to that, the presiding officer has made it clear that if we stray outside Schedule 2 at this moment, then that could bring on a closure motion, so that\u2019s something for all of us to consider. But, essentially, in summary, as long as we talk about projects in this, we\u2019re OK. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a82c56bcad346aeb91f58b3cc066943\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I guess we\u2019re speaking the same language, Mr McAnulty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202661a38e6c841199adfa50791f0ea05\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b15639c77134837a700d0afff7a214e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m saying to, please, make it very specific and not repetitive to where we shouldn\u2019t be going. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aab4f6e2ddb14a7e82822f2346c6f4d4\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: My question is around it being repetitive. If we were to take that guidance given and the permission, essentially, to speak to each project, naturally we might ask similar questions but about different projects. So my question is: would you deem that to be repetitive? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ceef233ef1a24e0090ef3c68c47f3d0e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214346aecf54c43c9b034afaef42a78ba\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Excellent\u2014thank you. The other question I have is around the ability to speak to amendments that relate to these projects. There are a number of amendments that are being progressively tabled that propose to remove a specific project. Now, that hasn\u2019t been tested or discussed yet, and I don\u2019t actually intend to ask that question specifically, but I just want to be really clear that if some member has spoken about a project and then another member wishes to speak to an amendment that relates to that project, would that be deemed repetitious? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db1f0c8b5adf4c749c3deb69187cfdc9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: In my view, it would be deemed repetitious if we were to have people standing up individually wanting to remove projects one by one. I\u2019m happy for people to speak to the project and suggest during their speech, as they\u2019re doing that, that it might be removed and to speak to that amendment, but I don\u2019t think it would be helpful for the committee if we had only speeches about removing the projects one by one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7a88af5c10b4dd8a342c3446b83ab0b\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: So a member could potentially not have the opportunity to speak to an amendment that they\u2019ve put forward?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288e2a3e8a3af4e0ea568d3e86e307167\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, that\u2019s always the case\u2014nothing changes there. Not all amendments are spoken to on many occasions, on lots of bills. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4af118c060343bf8ba32f7b0254969b\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: OK, so I suspect that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff69a45eb70d45a891112e5888387bde\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Why don\u2019t you just get on with it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229035834e1769425d8df40bb2b1feb484\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: This is a point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c33e43de2fb4e4f9f6e908f4d9e57b1\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014we will see, in taking on that guidance\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc345b39f5da48d39355c4ee16c62d68\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: You should see the way you behaved in the chair, Megan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c473546aefad43adabd1e5a38b2ebb17\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me, Minister. I\u2019m taking a point of order, which I take in silence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224aa3283eccdb411cb731ceafb7f778c6\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that we will see contributions from members specific to projects that won\u2019t be touching on contributions to projects that have been spoken of before and won\u2019t be repetitious. I\u2019m sure we can expect to see that. I\u2019d like to make my call now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233920fad618a46099c4de17acac3c4f2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, and I don\u2019t expect that people will speak to the project and then get up and take another call suggesting that it be cancelled. I\u2019m sure people can refine what they\u2019re saying and bring up\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce8799a264f94a8786c24cda01e31a8c\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s really useful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a290e1f77a234b2fb4ed01ff9ca1aeac\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the amendments during the course of their speeches about the projects, because I don\u2019t want to see a whole list of speeches just suggesting that we remove the projects. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cabbab968dd646518f2d95b45de6bb54\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, that\u2019s really useful. Do you have a point of order? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223703b4398f294c7eab2fb2cad6a32c13\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, a point of order, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7bdcd0e77b6478f8d63de60255e89f9\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to leave it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8864acb08304bd18ce4a2ff21b681ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8864acb08304bd18ce4a2ff21b681ac\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, and thank you for your guidance, Madam Chair. Just further to the clarifications you\u2019ve been able to give my colleague Kieran McAnulty, my question is: if there\u2019s a member who has taken a call, asked the Minister some questions, and is seeking information before they decide they need to put in an amendment, because, actually, their decision about whether or not there does need to be an amendment is dependent on the Minister\u2019s answer\u2014whether, in that instance, they will then be able to speak to their Amendment Paper, because they won\u2019t know until the Minister has answered the questions that we\u2019re seeking in this committee of the whole House stage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1b489c795dd455da89af13d67846b92\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1b489c795dd455da89af13d67846b92\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a fair question. We\u2019ll judge that one case by case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022d80a58b317e148efb51c7f914d7cf2e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d80a58b317e148efb51c7f914d7cf2e3\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. The project I wish to speak to is listed on page 133, Schedule 2: Tararua Wind Power Limited. It relates to the area of the \u201CFoothills of the Tararua Range, south of the Manawatu Gorge, and north of the Pahiatua Track, 5.5 kilometres west of Woodville.\u201D Now, this is obviously in the Tararua District, where both sides of my family are from, and it\u2019s an area that I hold very dear. It\u2019s appropriate that I speak to this project because I\u2019ve spoken about this area before in the House, in relation to proposed wind farms and this specific area in particular.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, there are already substantial wind farms in this area, and in fact this project proposes to improve and expand, in terms of the size of the turbines, those that already exist, but what it doesn\u2019t provide the committee is the context. Separate to this scheme, but right next door, is another project\u2014the Makomako proposal\u2014that has been given separate fast-track approval outside this bill. Why is that important? Because the Tararua District has numerous consents for wind farms that have already been issued\u2014more towards the east\u2014and they\u2019ve never been actioned. This bill is asking this Parliament to approve projects that subvert the normal process and override or prevent the public from having a say whilst there are consents sitting there that haven\u2019t been used. It\u2019s very hard for us to understand the justification here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIf indeed all those consents had led to projects being built and there continued to be barriers to future projects getting through the consenting process, we might have a valid discussion there, but we don\u2019t. I remember when I was fencing out Makuri for a few seasons, we did work on areas that were consented for wind farms\u2014we\u2019re talking about 20 years ago\u2014and they still haven\u2019t been built. Yet, we go to these areas near Makomako where a project, an additional project, has already been given approval, overriding the views of those communities and all the affected properties. And now, in addition to that, we\u2019ve got this project here that again wants to override their views.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI\u2019m also mindful of Mount Munro, just down the road in Eket\u0101huna. The residents there have similar concerns that their opposition to the wind farm right next to their residential areas\u2014a relatively compact residential area in the context of a rural community\u2014their views have been overlooked. The Makomako views have been overlooked. And here we are, the fast-track proposal\u2014exactly the same thing. Why I\u2019m particularly concerned about this is that this community has already done their bit; they already have a massive wind farm right up against their farms and right up against their houses. This proposal is going to make that bigger, and they\u2019ve got another project coming. The main concern here is that, in including this project in this bill, it doesn\u2019t provide the context that a normal process would allow, and that is a concern for all of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIt is also a concern the way in which the Government is trying to frame this debate. They are trying to frame, as the Minister responsible for RMA Reform indicated earlier, that because members of this committee are expressing concern about the inclusion of a project, that means they are against that particular project or they are against that industry. We are not against renewable energy\u2014I don\u2019t think there\u2019s a member in this House that is; we\u2019re certainly not against proposals that look to increase the proportion of renewable energy\u2014but when this bill allows the communities that are affected, their views, to be completely ignored and completely overlooked, we have an issue with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EMy question to the Minister is: why are we including this project when projects in the exact same area, surrounding farms, and surrounding residences have already been approved without the requirement of this bill, and yet that fact will not be considered?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u00222fd8fea43a6e49d5bc5ca7e2e567053d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222fd8fea43a6e49d5bc5ca7e2e567053d\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Chair. As I listen to and consider what is going on this morning, I want to look at the bigger picture and come, obviously, to one of the pieces here, because the challenge that I\u2019m seeing is that there are some projects\u2014and I\u2019ll allude to them very shortly\u2014with community controversy or there are issues in terms of the projects that have been declined or there are issues in terms of the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThe Minister responsible for RMA Reform has spoken several times today, and my colleague just now spoke about the fact that this side of committee isn\u2019t opposed to all of these projects, but there are some that we need to take into real consideration. The Minister spoke to us about nimbyism and the fact that we don\u2019t want progress to happen, but, actually, it\u2019s about the protection of our communities and the protection of people for whom these projects are on their doorsteps; not nimbyism, but getting it right, because this is for generations and generations to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, the project I want to speak on is on page 122, and it\u2019s Maia Properties Ltd in New Plymouth. Again, looking at this project\u2014119 potential allotments, residential development, including stormwater infrastructure\u2014that does sound good, but the question I have for the Minister is in terms of we\u2019ve heard from the Minister that the process, at arm\u2019s length, was with the panel who came up with recommendations; then it went to Cabinet, and Cabinet decided on these 149 projects. The challenge the Minister has\u2014and, I believe, the Government has\u2014is that some of these projects have major issues that are not only running through the media but have run through the courts, as we\u2019ve talked about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThis project in particular\u2014and, in fact, I\u2019ve been tracking with some of the families involved, who, on the record, say completely that they support the development up the top of Mangorei Road. As New Plymouth continues to grow, and as we see communities around the country growing, we see, obviously, moving into farmland, but there\u2019s also challenges: there\u2019s wetlands up there, there\u2019s council reserves. There have been challenges around the developer, in terms of what is good development. This is the thing, I guess, for us on this side of the committee, where we say, \u201CYeah, of course we want housing development, of course we want more people owning their own homes, but, again, at what cost and at what implications to social cohesion within those communities?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m holding up a series of news articles from over the last four or five years around this particular development. The reason I\u2019ve got them here is because I\u2019ve been considering that the council\u2019s had to get involved because there was an issue in terms of engineering. One of the houses actually had the potential of subsiding because they had cut far too close to the side of the property that isn\u2019t part of the development that already exists, and now the council is committed to building a public access way along there just to create protection for that home and other homes that are already existing. It went through a process. This project went through the engineering association\u2014I forget what they\u2019re called. The sort of Engineering New Zealand had to actually look into this because there were some mistakes made, and, again, for the local residents, there\u2019s been dust, there\u2019s been concerns around the wetlands, and concerns around council reserves that it feels like it\u2019s impeding on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThe question I\u2019m trying to ask the Minister is: how comfortable is the Minister around some of these projects\u2014I\u2019m going to get to a few a bit later on\u2014that definitely are controversial and that definitely don\u2019t have local support? As you\u2019ve said, Minister, we know that this is about consenting; this isn\u2019t about funding. Just because it\u2019s on the fast-track Schedule 2 doesn\u2019t mean that it will necessarily happen, but if it does, these community members who live there now or live there for years to come will potentially not have a say in what happens. Currently, they feel out in the dark. Currently, they feel like they\u2019re being ignored. This piece of legislation and this project up on Mangorei Road just shows the potential of the community falling apart, but also bad infrastructure, bad build\u2014actually, someone who maybe doesn\u2019t know what they\u2019re doing. The question is for the panel who made the decision: how did that happen? Secondly, why would the Cabinet decide on a project that is as controversial as this to go ahead and be in Schedule 2?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00223427b22dd9534f0aae838406292f84aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223427b22dd9534f0aae838406292f84aa\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I take the next speaker, I also want to say that the questions around the community concerns and things are relevant, but we want to be careful also that there\u2019s a panel to be appointed as a result of this bill, and we\u2019re not actually here in this Chamber to do the work of the panel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022 data-id=\u0022987eca81e7a043bd8db7c6f123b66c40\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022987eca81e7a043bd8db7c6f123b66c40\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for those comments, Madam Chair. I\u2019m going to be very specific about my contribution and the very clear questions that pertain to the bill and the process ahead of us. I want to focus in on a project on page 129 of Amendment Paper 238 in Schedule 2, and the company is OceanaGold, which is a multinational mining company based in Canada and Australia. The specific one that I\u2019m talking to in this contribution is the Macraes phase four, where in stages it proposes to expand the existing open pit and underground gold mining operations to enable output of approximately 130,000 ounces per annum out to 2036.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EThe concerns that I have around this and the questions that I have for the Minister responsible for RMA Reform pertain to a very significant ongoing pattern of non-compliance of the company and about how that relates to how that will be picked up through the application process by the panel and actually given due consideration to. Now, what we\u2019ve found with OceanaGold at this Macraes site is that they have demonstrated significant negligence, and this is across both the consenting from Otago Regional Council and also Waitaki District Council, who both undertook auditing and reporting on the company that documented this pattern of non-compliance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EThis has been over a five-year period, the Otago Regional Council\u2019s audit found, and it found continued or repeated non-compliances over this time which related to the declining of aquatic health and the surrounding ecosystem. These are really significant breaches. It had higher than allowed chemicals and algae levels in the water, and there were gaps in both the monitoring and then the non-notification to the council when there were breaches. With the submitting of their compliance reports, there was a pattern of them being late, but not just a few days or weeks\u2014we\u2019re talking about between five months to one year. I want to make that really clear: that this is a significant pattern; this is not just one-offs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EThe same was found for Waitaki District Council. They found significant negligence, particularly when it came to stock exclusion and allowing cattle to graze against consent conditions. A number of these breaches were actually in relation to QEII covenants, and there were certain conditions that actually asked or made clear that OceanaGold would actually have to create lizard habitat, for example, but then the stock issues actually destroyed their own lizard habitat creation, and fencing activity was compromised due to a continued failure to exclude stock. Waitaki District Council found they\u2019d breached all of their ecological consents multiple times, often at different mining sites, and this is captured in an article by RNZ just this morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003ENow, what I\u2019m concerned about with this, and what I\u2019d like to hear the Minister\u2019s comments on, is that even in the early stages, where Cabinet actually considered these on a project-by-project basis\u2014considered these companies that would be eligible to going through and being listed in this schedule\u2014there was, I believe, a part of the application that asked about previous non-compliance. I\u2019m interested whether the Minister is aware whether this kind of non-compliance was first and foremost present in these applications which have now gone through into this schedule. If not, how are the next processes in the bill, in terms of the panel decision making, making clear that these concerns will be vetted and visible to the panel?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022d489c39c4ed04cfab4f64a2a518bc630\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d489c39c4ed04cfab4f64a2a518bc630\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll just very briefly deal with three of the last contributions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EFirstly, in relation to Mr McAnulty\u2019s point about the Tararuas, which is a haven of wind power, he seems surprised by that. It\u2019s because the wind is good. That is why everyone wants to build wind farms in the Tararuas. He doesn\u2019t like it very much, but the point is the same for the particular project he is talking about, as it is for all of the projects, which is that expert panels are required to invite local councils to comment on projects so they can consider the full context of projects. That point remains true for all of them, and members opposite often say that local councils know their local communities. Well, that is indeed the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to Glen Bennett\u2019s points about the particular project he was talking about, again the point is the same. The expert panel\u2019s job is to consider the effects of the project and can apply conditions as appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to Lan Pham\u2019s point just made now, which was a good point, the bill provides that panels can take into account the history of applicants regarding previous non-compliance. This has to be included in both listed and referred applications. That is something the panels can specifically take into account, which, I think, deals with the nub of the point she was making. We\u2019ve put the specific provision in the bill for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b66248dd4fda4562b1d2807eccb756f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b66248dd4fda4562b1d2807eccb756f6\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb9a06346cd04c5ba2090dd0613e3669\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb9a06346cd04c5ba2090dd0613e3669\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to take a call now from the Hon Dr Megan Woods, but I\u2019ve just been through a process of having a discussion and Part 2 is related to the process, and I think we\u2019re now heavily straying into Part 2. I\u2019m going to take a call from the Hon Dr Megan Woods and then assess the situation. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00220fe89368714a4831bda175bce0a48911\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220fe89368714a4831bda175bce0a48911\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I specifically want to address my comments and questions to the Minister in the chair, the Hon Chris Bishop, around the Mid Canterbury Water Storage Limited Klondyke Storage project, which is listed on page 123 of the schedule. This proposal is to construct storage for up to approximately 53 million cubic metres of water for irrigation to improve the reliability of\u00A0the existing MHV Water Ltd and Ashburton Lyndhurst Irrigation Ltd community irrigation schemes, including realigning parts of the Rangitata Diversion Race to facilitate the diversion and take of water into storage. Specifically, it is 917 and 986 Shepherds Bush Road, Ruapuna, Canterbury, adjacent to the Rangitata River, and approximately 38 kilometres from Ashburton.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s fair to say that the Rangitata races and the Rangitata Diversion Scheme is something that is very dear to the Labour Party\u2019s heart. Of course, it was built between 1937 and 1944, and was very much part of the first Labour Government\u2019s mission around regional economic development. This is a scheme which is part of our proud history of how it is we have supported rural communities in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIt is worth, before asking my questions, also putting on the table that we\u2019re not opposed to fast-track schemes, but my questions to the Minister around this specifically relate to the fact that this is a fast-track scheme like we have not seen for decades. This is a fast-track scheme where Part 1 of the bill, the purpose statement, clearly lays out the hierarchy of what can be considered, and the environment is not in that hierarchy. That is one of the things that we have been seeking answers on when we have schemes such as this, which I\u2019ve given some of the past history on, but I haven\u2019t gone back to the 1860s when runholders first started building culverts to irrigate their land in that part of mid-Canterbury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThere has been, since 2016, an attempt to get this Klondyke storage scheme up and running. It has had various stages through that, and it has gone through various processes. In September 2016, the Ashburton District Council published the notice of application for the resource consent. The application included consents to divert an additional 10 cumecs from the Rangitata River, at times when the flow exceeded\u2014now, I\u2019m not going to go through everything like that, but the decision to grant this resource consent was appealed by several bodies, notably including the New Zealand Salmon Anglers Association and Ng\u0101i Tahu. These were the two entities that appealed strongly around this in 2016.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIn 2019, the disputed application for resource consent was still in the mediation phase in the Environment Court when the then Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage, announced that a project was being developed in conjunction with partners to ensure the ecological health and biodiversity of the Rangitata River. Now, this is really important, because this says that there were processes in place that put at the heart, in terms of decision making, the environmental impacts of the scheme, and we know from the purpose statement of the legislation that we\u2019re debating today, which is in Part 1 of this bill, that the environmental concerns really slipped down the hierarchy. We know from the purpose statement what the overarching concerns were and, when these fast-track projects which were included in the schedule are referred to the hearings panel, the hierarchy of considerations they\u2019re going to have to take.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EOne of the things was that an agreement to withdraw the appeal was linked to a detailed monitoring plan for the river. I\u2019m not going to go through every detail of this, but there still was a certain amount of angst around this project, particularly around the water conservation order and how that was being adhered to. A key environmental consideration has sat at the heart of this, yet this is a project that is now being included in this legislation, in this schedule to this legislation, under a purpose clause that takes the environment out of the hierarchy of considerations and puts economic development right at the top, when, clearly, what we\u2019d seen over the last years, in an attempt to find a way to work our way through this, was actually finding a way that did bring the environment centrally into the decision making of whether or not this should be a project\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u002232f7b224b5c44c348c8ffe486c4059c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232f7b224b5c44c348c8ffe486c4059c9\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7598cd451504f0cadd268e017ad3dcc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7598cd451504f0cadd268e017ad3dcc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that debate on this question now close. [Interruption] I\u2019ve started voting, Mr McAnulty. Sorry, were you calling before I\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212020b39d7a44c18b35e42c2764eb5b7\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022297c5a6c737348eca668497fed78b1c9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I have started voting but I will take the point of order. I suspect I know what the member is going to say, but my judgment is that in the last few minutes, we\u2019ve been talking heavily around the process, which relates to Part 2, and there\u2019s a lot of work in Part 2 around the process. It\u2019s one thing to talk about the projects; they can be used as examples in Part 2, to make the case of the points that the members are trying to raise around process, and I feel right now we\u2019re doing that in Part 1 when it belongs in Part 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002260bf257588624a18bdccdb8dd86f789d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260bf257588624a18bdccdb8dd86f789d\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I appreciate that, Madam Chair, and thank you. I heard the guidance you provided to the committee earlier that it is your view or your preference that there not be contributions talking about process, and as long as there are calls that don\u2019t touch on process, members can still refer to specific projects as has been established previously. My concern, though, is that you took one call and throughout the Hon Dr Megan Woods\u2019 call\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022cdb0a2df53464358921a8c3c1ce36b8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cdb0a2df53464358921a8c3c1ce36b8b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Just for the member\u2019s benefit, I had actually taken one call, but I had been listening to the calls previous to that and I feel that the calls, including the one that I just took, are based around process. I\u2019ve made a decision to take a closure motion. We\u2019ve still got Part 2 to go, and we can still example the projects when we\u2019re talking about the process. What I\u2019m finding is that what we\u2019re talking about now is the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022b596ccbdbef443b9a840e0a5b3ce0dd1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b596ccbdbef443b9a840e0a5b3ce0dd1\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Chair. With respect, I haven\u2019t actually made the point that I wanted to make, and that is that, very reluctantly, if it is indeed your intention to take a closure, then I move that the Speaker be recalled to rule on that decision on the basis that his ruling last night indicated that the debate on the schedule would be wide-ranging, and that was very clearly made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002237f4f871610242a488bcfaf03245b57f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237f4f871610242a488bcfaf03245b57f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well, I would point the member to Speaker\u2019s ruling 67/3, on page 67 of Speakers\u2019 Rulings, which states that \u201CIt is not for the Speaker to second-guess the Chair\u2019s judgment [on \u2026 closure]. Of course, if in fact the committee does not agree with the Chair\u2019s decision \u2026 then it is always open to the committee to vote down the question,\u201D. I\u2019m going to make the decision now to take the vote, so the question is that debate on this question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226331bc00d97848efb61582b2968e1504\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4d45ebcbe2b414f9d04688407dac2af\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Now, I had started voting, and I\u2019m going to continue voting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5a6d0c03b9c4396995ea2af9a74548a\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair, you referred to a Speaker\u2019s ruling and it is only appropriate that we are able to respond to that before a decision is made, so respectfully I seek\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d93adcf630345f2addf6f869855229d\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, I feel the Opposition are trifling with the Chair. It is your decision, as you quite rightly pointed out, and they\u2019re attempting to obfuscate you and not allow you to carry out your duty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252b30a0b3ecc477bb74119570d28e50a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m actually going to start the vote now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228ed143420b664d7c8db757d785bc966b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00226a46b87c7a0b493c934368641d95d580\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a46b87c7a0b493c934368641d95d580\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Part 1 set out on Amendment Paper 238 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c61964a27528418e9ac0999ed1a29ab0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1fa1128554846d4b411047d99ff22ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1fa1128554846d4b411047d99ff22ca\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s amendment to replace clause 3 set out on Amendment Paper 129 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226b146a3d762a4082b09a4ba9ac7aaff0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022de340169bf534e3684c51269d5b69c9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de340169bf534e3684c51269d5b69c9b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Scott Willis\u2019 amendment to clause 3 set out on Amendment Paper 146 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221643cb5198fe441fa6fffbb6a5e4a795\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3d8efb6d3f443f1ac4cc8fba47a5851\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3d8efb6d3f443f1ac4cc8fba47a5851\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Lan Pham\u2019s amendment to clause 3 set out on Amendment Paper 147 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002277e0d3b7181241d380cba6e8c44209e1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6cc995c51544ad8907670625667f307\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6cc995c51544ad8907670625667f307\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Steve Abel\u2019s amendment to clause 3 set out on Amendment Paper 148 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220c3cc88816234e7d8bd10aeb7a727298\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002248f645b2d6fe46928a68c61ade64acb5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248f645b2d6fe46928a68c61ade64acb5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Steve Abel\u2019s amendment to clause 3 set out on Amendment Paper 149 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022502fb6788e9b48238cb455d72e48d78b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002285fb34a4f7be43a9a91e8d09bbd8d80d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285fb34a4f7be43a9a91e8d09bbd8d80d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Debbie Ngarewa-Packer\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f41455879b344876a478b5d73f5c7bf2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022168dd9fc6a26485ca3779d12a8cb372b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022168dd9fc6a26485ca3779d12a8cb372b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Peeni Henare\u2019s amendment to insert new clause 3A set out on Amendment Paper 130 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e010d6a1b0d643b39c2838b709715935\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022633bdbeccfd14dad8f06873f4f8f7423\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022633bdbeccfd14dad8f06873f4f8f7423\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Julie Anne Genter\u2019s amendment to clause 4 set out on Amendment Paper 150 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228ecb66ea84204fc198f1a230ebdcc904\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00225aa64495c742486a87c452e38d228842\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225aa64495c742486a87c452e38d228842\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Glen Bennett\u2019s amendments to clause 4A set out on Amendment Paper 141 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f4312407f7484973ad97a11b9ca60151\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac9926778baa40d19ce256573e73e4e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac9926778baa40d19ce256573e73e4e4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Lan Pham\u2019s amendment to clause 4A set out on Amendment Paper 151 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022debb892690e0471ebbe9944215892846\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00225e4380a1e5fe4e0483ae771219cf4367\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e4380a1e5fe4e0483ae771219cf4367\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Debbie Ngarewa-Packer\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4A to insert new paragraphs (la) and (ma) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002284d0f075bea74ca7b33c9f2089dc450b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f783ccd54a704f4dab534d5afda5d85d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f783ccd54a704f4dab534d5afda5d85d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: H\u016Bhana Lyndon\u2019s amendment inserting new clause 6AAA set out on Amendment Paper 152 is out order as being the same in substance as a previous amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that Debbie Ngarewa-Packer\u2019s tabled amendment replacing clause 6 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022635fb50622594f3ba6f3b17dad45ef36\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00229339756f92da499280b0d4ed0268f92d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229339756f92da499280b0d4ed0268f92d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Debbie Ngarewa-Packer\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 6 to replace subclause (3) and insert new subclause (4) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224833d8b6d2714c6f97e4248b7a92afc9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002281c298e287d5468c8937fa0fbc47143a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281c298e287d5468c8937fa0fbc47143a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Debbie Ngarewa-Packer\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 8 to include a reference to the Crown\u2019s obligation under Te Tiriti o Waitangi is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fca89c4d6ec44fab9ce305cbc92fb46d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224c88b0257f534d4892c60bfe6005f304\u0022\u003EPart 2  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000309\u0022\u003EFast-track approvals process\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc16143edba9412381df5e48c8f7dcbe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc16143edba9412381df5e48c8f7dcbe\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: We now come to the debate on Part 2. Part 2 is the debate on clauses 14 to 33, \u201CFast-track approvals process\u201D, and Schedules 3 and 4 to 13. The question is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022cbf464b58b71456dacc87c1b70b590aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cbf464b58b71456dacc87c1b70b590aa\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019ve no desire to dispute your ruling previously. However, we are in a situation, given the Speaker\u2019s ruling last night and the unprecedented nature of it, that I think it\u2019s reasonable to say that some clarity is required. My understanding is that Schedule 2 can still be debated in Part 2. Is that correct?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db9231f5848f4bfd926e15ec426b27dd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Reference to the projects in terms of process\u2014Schedule 2 not in itself, but the projects can be referred to, to clarify what the members are asking around process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fab65a9fb734132ab98423a4d985faa\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. That\u2019s important, and that\u2019s how I read it, but for the sake of everybody\u2019s awareness I thought it was best that we set that out from the get-go. Members can still go through project by project, but it\u2019s your expectation that the calls are focused on the process around those projects?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237d19aecfd39485f865524875d85682a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s my expectation that this is around process but the projects can be used for examples to clarify the questions. Is that clear? I\u2019m not sure that it\u2014am I making myself clear?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdea961a28f04abd84bb32758ef83990\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it\u2019s just not what I had expected, so I\u2019m pleased I\u2019ve asked the questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00224764e15f0aad48a3bd3f2e18f272482e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224764e15f0aad48a3bd3f2e18f272482e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not ruling out people talking about the projects; all I\u2019m saying is that Schedule 2 was in Part 1. This is about process. If people want to speak about their particular projects in relation to how the process is going to work, then that is fine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00224474787f466541cdb5fe36d44fc138b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224474787f466541cdb5fe36d44fc138b7\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, speaking to the point of order, I just want further clarification from you that we are then able to also, for example\u2014because we are using examples from different projects\u2014refer to the same clause within Part 2 in order to receive some enlightenment from the Minister around the process for those specific projects. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241424d0f7f554002aedb8a6a40055403\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: That would be really helpful if people did refer to the clauses, because then it makes it much clearer for the Minister in terms of the questions that the members are asking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fed7b99950c140ca9863c3ad3933efb3\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: But we can refer to the same clause or the same subclause, depending on the project that we are using as an example?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257593e11679a417ab97ba52c2aece9b8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: As long as you\u2019re using the clauses in Part 2 and the projects to, I guess, quantify what you\u2019re asking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229acb1ef0b58b468e9fd0c40bb98e15d9\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: Sounds great\u2014thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229501a977bcf44dcb9f4af0086a626a91\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: All right, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022f52b114e07104db382f40b049d24ac57\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f52b114e07104db382f40b049d24ac57\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Assistant Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thank you, Madam Chair. I seek leave to give a five-minute call on Part 1 in relation to Winton Sunfield.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002287c7765c5505409192a66b9263b78546\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287c7765c5505409192a66b9263b78546\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there agreement on\u2014[Interruption] There\u2019s disagreement? No, there is objection\u2014there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc7e322033b244cfb61b87283259ce9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc7e322033b244cfb61b87283259ce9f\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Right, as we\u2019re moving on to Part 2, I want to note at the outset that this includes many, many schedules that are very important in terms of process. Of course, Schedule 2 does link to Part 2 as well, as we\u2019ve just been discussing. Whilst other members may want to talk more about the Schedule 2 projects and how they relate to this process\u2014this process which involves a lot of \u201Cmays\u201D and not very many \u201Cmusts\u201D. I\u2019m going to talk quite a lot about the difference between \u201Cmays\u201D and \u201Cmusts\u201D as we go through this because, fundamentally, there are not any of the requirements or protections for the environment or for community participation or for Treaty considerations in this bill, and the requirements in terms of the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to start right at the start, and I will try and move through; I cannot speak for what other people will do, but that is my plan. We have a number of Amendment Papers, some of which have been tabled early last month, so these should not come as a surprise to members at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EBefore I go to the first one, on clause 14, I would note that the Minister\u2019s giant Amendment Paper 238 includes a new clause 14AAA, \u201CConsultation requirements for referral application\u201D, and also clause 14AAB, \u201CNotice of request to grant right of access for proposed access arrangement\u201D, and the short question on that is: if they have come from somewhere else in the bill and it\u2019s just a move around, or if they are new, could that be pointed out to us? There aren\u2019t the little numbers that sometimes there are in these documents with the comparison there is at clause 9, so why are they there? That\u2019s the basic question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWhilst the Minister responsible for RMA Reform considers that, if we move on to clause 14, there are a couple of amendments that Labour\u2019s had on clause 14, and this is \u201CReferral application\u201D. This is not for the projects that are already included in the Schedule 2\u2014those 149 projects\u2014this is for other projects that might want to be referred. It\u2019s an important process issue of how you go about being referred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWe have Amendment Paper 131, in the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s name, that\u2019s after clause 14(3)\u2014which is \u201CThe information to be included in the [referral] application is as follows\u201D, and there\u2019s a wide range of projects, of information that is required\u2014to add at the end of that list, so it would have been (ix) and (x): \u201Cneighbours\u201D and \u201Crelevant public interest groups\u201D. I\u2019m wondering if the Minister will consider these changes, because the list of groups to be considered there is very narrow. \u201CPersons affected\u201D includes: \u201Crelevant local authorities\u201D, some \u201Ciwi authorities\u201D, \u201CTreaty settlement entities\u201D, \u201Ccustomary rights groups\u201D, \u201CNg\u0101ti Porou\u201D, \u201CMarine and Coastal Area\u201D, \u201Cperson with a registered interest in land that may need to be acquired under the Public Works Act\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWhat is not included in that list is \u201Cneighbours\u201D. We heard before, in a contribution from the Hon David Parker, some concerns from a chap, Hayden, whose surname escapes me, who has a wedding venue near a large, proposed goldmine. He is not an adjoining neighbour, and so I was concerned that he will not be able to participate. I mean, that\u2019s slightly different because that process has already been referred, but it\u2019s that type of situation where neighbours should be included, and relevant public interest groups.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWe have a further amendment on this clause as well that I\u2019ll quickly move to, and that is in the name of Glen Bennett, Amendment Paper 141, and that is to delete paragraphs\u00A0(ea) and (ua). That is a statement of any activities involved in the project that are prohibited activities under the Resource Management Act. That is, of course, because we consider that prohibited activities should not be included in this bill. We\u2019ve discussed that again, but, again, I advocate for a change in this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ESo, very quickly wrapping up on the start to Part 2, what are those new clauses before 14 about, and will the Minister consider opening up the referral application information to neighbours and other interested parties? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u00226824183e0a4e4c6880b2b7a5cacfdef6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226824183e0a4e4c6880b2b7a5cacfdef6\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Chair. My question is a continuation of what my colleague has just been talking about: new clause 14AAA in Part 2, on Amendment Paper 238. It\u2019s not repetition, because she alluded to this clause but she did not delve specifically into the content, and it is around consultation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI\u2019m glad that the Minister responsible for RMA Reform and his officials have ensured that the word \u201Cmust\u201D was included in this, because in many ways, if this legislation goes through, this is potentially the only place where consultation will take place before the lodging of a referral application. My concern around this is that for many people who have maybe been involved in local government or been involved in any kind of consenting, or who have been involved in iwi and hap\u016B relations or in community engagement, with this sort of thing, you can always drive a digger through it. It talks here about this and says that they must consult with \u201Crelevant local authorities;\u201D, \u201Crelevant iwi authorities, hap\u016B, and Treaty settlement entities,\u201D and then it goes on to include others, as well as the \u201Crelevant applicant groups with applications\u201D, and so on and so forth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, the concern I have is that it\u2019s pretty vague on what consultation is, and I often speak to colleagues and friends of mine in Taranaki, including some of my iwi and hap\u016B friends, who talk about the dreaded email that gets sent. It\u2019s the email that says, \u201COh, we\u2019ve consulted because we actually emailed the local hap\u016B. We sent the email and we told them, and we asked them to respond to us by 5 p.m. on Friday with their feedback.\u201D, and often what I then get coming back to me from the other side is people saying, \u201CThey never replied to our email. We tried to send something through.\u201D The challenge of \u201Cmust consult\u201D is the fact of capacity but also just the fact of just the sheer arrogance, I\u2019d sometimes say, or the assumption that sending a random email to people who, often, they don\u2019t even know and don\u2019t even have the connection with is their version of consulting, and it\u2019s not\u2014it\u2019s not. It has to be far more than that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI really want to understand in terms of this consultation requirement how we can firm it up so that the engagement, the connection, and the consultation is actually something that is thorough, something that dives deep, and something that is meaningful with relationships. Now, they don\u2019t need to be friends and they don\u2019t need to be best mates, but the fact that that consultation can just be an email is actually, to me, not acceptable, because I have seen it so often in my own community and I\u2019ve heard about it far too often in so many other communities around the fact that consultation is just a once-over-lightly tokenism. We need to consider as we move forward as a nation but also within our regions and our cities and within our councils and local authorities and other agencies what true consultation and engagement look like, and I\u2019m concerned because of what comes after this in the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThis piece here has the consultation requirement just for the actual application, so if they do that once-over-lightly, the one email that they might get a reply or might not get a reply to\u2014and I\u2019m not arguing that part of it, because I think it\u2019s just a bit embarrassing sometimes. The fact is that this, potentially, would be the only check and balance in terms of going through the process. Do you know what? It may end up with the panel. It may end up with the panel, and it may make some choices in terms of this process to engage or to seek further information, but, as my colleague the Hon Rachel Brooking has said, there\u2019s lots of \u201Cmays\u201D versus \u201Cmusts\u201D, and that challenges us in terms of how we make sure that the process is good, that it is tight, and that communities feel heard. It\u2019s not about slowing things down, but it\u2019s actually about having genuine engagement, a genuine relationship, and a genuine understanding of the issues and the challenges but also the possibilities of projects. That could also be good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ETo the Minister: how do we ensure that this consultation is fair and engaging, and we are prescriptive enough in terms of clause 14AAA in terms of the consultation requirements? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00222c1222e06107426c8e2cba9cd5fcdffb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c1222e06107426c8e2cba9cd5fcdffb\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister for Energy):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the members for their questions. A question from Rachel Brooking: the Minister can identify other parties, including neighbours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe question from the member who\u2019s just resumed his seat, Glen Bennett, in regards to how do we understand whether the consultation has been adequate: there\u2019s a requirement for the applicant to include a summary of consultation and how it has informed the project.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff714c955bbc49de8e4c8560c3c0331a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff714c955bbc49de8e4c8560c3c0331a\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. Thank you for the opportunity to speak to Part 2 in the fast-track approvals process. My questions do follow on alongside my colleague from Labour in terms of consultation and determination of what is consultation, but also links into clause 14(3)(ha), \u201CPersons affected\u201D, on page 24. What I\u2019m seeing here in terms of a theme is there\u2019s a list of M\u0101ori to engage with, but there\u2019s specific wording\u2014and the \u201Cmay\u201D, and specific wording that the applicant \u201Cconsiders\u201D. Is it the intention of this Government to say that the applicant will determine who\u2019s going to be the local M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s pretty tricky, eh? While we\u2019ve got a list of iwi authorities, those who have done a Treaty settlement, you might have a Mana Whakahono \u0101 Rohe agreement, you\u2019re probably going back to the High Court again for marine and coastal area because the customary marine title (CMT) threshold is so high now\u2014very few of us have got any of that. A lot do not have organised authorities or charitable trusts who represent their hap\u016B groupings. Some organise themselves through marae as well. If the applicant is the one to consider who is the best M\u0101ori to engage with, I\u2019m a bit worried about that, because that\u2019s where you fall into the trick of tick-box exercise and favouring who is the best M\u0101ori of the time. I am cynical about that because I have experienced that myself in hap\u016B and iwi land whereby you pick and choose who the relevant M\u0101ori is that you engage, but it should be a blanket approach. It should be all-inclusive, because we have layers of interest in this space. We have layers of whakapapa, and we have layers of connection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EMoving over to a couple of projects I\u2019d like to speak to within my own tribal rohe, being the project from McCallum Bros for Bream Bay sand extraction\u2014and we\u2019ve heard about that a little bit earlier; that\u2019s in the south of Whang\u0101rei\u2014and also the Northport expansion, which was also listed here. I know that it\u2019s been spoken to a lot by members of the coalition Government around how it\u2019s a national significance project. Now, in terms of the process, I\u2019m really wanting to understand the intention. This is an intention k\u014Drero, because I think, from the amendments I\u2019ve seen, there is a desire to try and improve this space. We have heard from the Minister responsible for RMA Reform that there will be a M\u0101ori on the panel\u2014there\u2019s apparently going to be a M\u0101ori\u2014and that impacted whenua M\u0101ori landowners also will get a say. That assumes that there is whenua M\u0101ori there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003ENow, if I can speak specifically to south Whang\u0101rei\u2014aka Ruak\u0101k\u0101, Bream Bay\u2014the tribes of that area only have tiny little land parcels; I would say less than 2 percent whenua M\u0101ori. For the adjacent whenua M\u0101ori, there\u2019s very little at Bream Bay. We claim Poupouwhenua\u2014Poupouwhenua is under claim. That\u2019s of particular contention with the Northport expansion proposal. But, for the McCallum Bros over there on that side, whenua M\u0101ori will not get a say, because there is none on that side of town.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EFurther, with the Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Act implications\u2014and noting earlier in the legislation; and it\u2019s only a brief mention\u2014Part 1, clause 4A talks about if you do receive Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Act customary marine title, you can decline or you can approve activity. Now, this goes hand in hand in terms of you giveth the opportunity to say no, but then you take it away with the repeal or the amendments being proposed in the current Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) (Customary Marine Title) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EFor the hap\u016B, for the iwi of Bream Bay, learning I guess from what we\u2019ve already experienced in the P\u0101kiri sands issue\u2014so, P\u0101kiri sands, our wh\u0101nau there, and I\u2019d like to signal that I\u2019d like to continue on with this line of k\u014Drero with you, Mr Chair, to take a second call. P\u0101kiri wh\u0101nau, \u014Cmaha Marae, in April this year won in the Environment Court against McCallum Bros. McCallum Bros have now changed tack in coming north to Bream Bay for this purpose\u2014for sand mining, of which they are going to take 150,000 cubic metres of sand per annum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222f218652d0047b08c078aaea6574c44\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Take a call?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022498abc643e8546058d903bf3a9ada554\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON\u003C/span\u003E: \u0100e. I just want to take a second call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be597a902ca14c148200e7075f2d64e5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: H\u016Bhana Lyndon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243ea786d403746adb7e2ebbef9ba2da2\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chair\u2014thank you. McCallum Bros are there. I\u2019m wanting to see what learnings we have in terms of what consultation looks like, and if these applicants who are coming into the process and are listed are going to have high thresholds in terms of what is consultation with the local M\u0101ori. Will it just be only those who have the tribal authority status, who have the Mana Whakahono \u0101 Rohe? Can marae be consulted? It seems to be pitched towards the applicant determining who is the M\u0101ori. That\u2019s of grave concern as an uri of that district.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003ESimilar with Northport, knowing that there\u2019s some 12 hectares of reclamation proposed for the Northport expansion. Again, these are pan-tribal interests. They have just finished two hearing processes for inside the harbour and outside of the harbour for the Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Act, of which they\u2019re probably going to have to go back to court. It\u2019s a significant impact of which the tribes had already been to the Environment Court or had been before commissioners and are in mediation right now. It\u2019s custom and practice. How do these panels assess\u2014because you\u2019re going to have a M\u0101ori, so I acknowledge that. You\u2019re going to have a M\u0101ori, but how will the panels assess how pono, how tika the applicant is in their genuine engagement with the local hau k\u0101inga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EI go to hau k\u0101inga on this, because the hau k\u0101inga are the people of the land\u2014the people who have lived there for generations, who have seen the obliterations of pipi beds in Whang\u0101rei Harbour, and they may not be represented by a tribal authority. Ain\u2019t nobody got any CMT rights in Whang\u0101rei? And there are no Treaty settlements on that side of town as well, in the south of Whang\u0101rei, so it\u2019s a very narrow group of M\u0101ori that these applicants will be engaging with. It\u2019s an important question because I think it opens up more questions around the 149 projects, but also how the M\u0101ori on the panel will operate and how the M\u0101ori is appointed to the panel. Do the M\u0101oris of the rohe get a say on who the M\u0101ori is that considers their project? Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00228e5c9626282a4582b18cbce3d37226e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e5c9626282a4582b18cbce3d37226e8\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister for Energy):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I thank the member for her questions. Clause 14AAA obviously includes the list of people or organisations or iwi that are to be consulted. The Ministry for the Environment will check the completeness of the application at the referral stage, and the Environmental Protection Authority will check that parties required to be consulted have been consulted at that stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u0022b74cf546427e4e04867fe0744f709a16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b74cf546427e4e04867fe0744f709a16\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019d like to follow on from clause 14AAA, and actually there are a whole lot of others. I\u2019ll go into it, but if the Minister for Energy will just bear with me. There are a few things that concern us, and if we were looking for a project that should be removed from this, I\u2019m more than available to help you locate that one. It does start with Trans-Tasman Resources, which should never ever have made the list, and I refer to that particular project on page 138.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003ENow, the reason\u2014and there are a few things I\u2019d like to highlight. If we were to go on to clause 14AAA and talk about consultation\u2014there must be a consultation with hap\u016B and iwi. This project specifically has had extreme consultation with hap\u016B and iwi. In fact, one of those iwi which settled and was apologised to by the Government in 2002 has made it known since 2014 how it feels about this particular project. I want to be able to delve into the process and the concerns we have there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EOn 30 September 2021, the Supreme Court highlighted two particular issues and its concerns with, one, the domestic law and how it applied to Te Tiriti, and the international law. If we were to look at affected iwi and hap\u016B and what it is that clause 14AAA is intended to do, and the significance of the importance of tikanga M\u0101ori, the hap\u016B opposed the marine discharge consent as is very clear and outlined in the exclusive economic zone, nicknamed the EEZ, or the Resource Management Act on water, if you prefer to call it that way. There was extreme concern with the way that the decision-making committee (DMC) at the time refused to decline the applicant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EThey then in 2014 and 2016 consulted with the Government and it resulted in them taking the DMC\u2019s decision to the High Court, which ruled in their favour. In short, Trans-Tasman Resources could not provide any predictive model for the environmental effects. In fact, it was so bad that Trans-Tasman Resources sought to redact all information from their application because they did not want to be consulted and neither transparent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EIn 2016, they won this in the High Court and it was won on the absence of base-line evidence. As we progressed this hap\u016B and iwi in their consultation process, we went through the High Court, to the Court of Appeal, to the Supreme Court. Four judges agreed on New Zealand\u2019s obligations to Te Tiriti, to give effect to the principles of Te Tiriti, and on their obligations to the international law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EIf we can, effectively, go into the EEZ, the Treaty clause in section 12 said the courts will not easily read\u2014in fact, sorry, I\u2019ll just go back a bit. The judges\u2019 decision stated, \u201Cthe courts will not easily read statutory language as excluding consideration of Treaty principles if a statute is silent\u201D. In fact, what it states is, rather, they must give a broad and generous construct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EI think what we have here, Minister, is a project that has made the cut, that had no right, no business, no support from any of those hap\u016B and those iwi in those communities\u2014business communities, hap\u016B, and iwi\u2014who invest largely in the whole region. Nowhere did they have any support at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EIf we go into the further regard on whether there was any doubt about the process\u2014and I think of the hypocrisy of being able to see this particular case make it in here. We have a Government that has told its voters, including iwi and hap\u016B, that they support a moratorium of deep seabed mining in international waters, so it\u2019s really, really hard to understand why we now have a Government that is supporting seabed mining and supporting a particular project that, again, as I said, has lost in every court\u2014every court that exists in Aotearoa\u2014to prove without doubt that it could do this particular activity without detrimental effects to the environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EWe have a perfect storm: we have an economic crisis and we have a company that has had to retract its statement that it gave to The Australian\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c557eb86cb248d6bee6db0e4f74da2d\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7ee0902680a42cabe9b0b18ce30aa91\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER\u003C/span\u003E: If I could carry on please, Mr Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002247246acf22074cd2a23e3e182e4f7720\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247246acf22074cd2a23e3e182e4f7720\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Simeon Brown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022574288c127094d218399160b4b0662d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022574288c127094d218399160b4b0662d0\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister for Energy):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, appreciate the opportunity to take a brief call. Much of what the member is discussing is in regards to whether or not a particular project should be on the list in Schedule 2 or not\u2014that has already been determined as part of Part 1 of the bill. This part we\u2019re dealing with here, and the consultation, is in relation to how our project is referred, and as I\u2019ve answered very clearly, there\u2019s a range of requirements upon parties as they put forward an application as to who they must discuss that with and consult.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u00221a244fe33ec34c9c92f4347db191cd97\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a244fe33ec34c9c92f4347db191cd97\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Chair. Kia ora, Mr Chair. I believe that, in terms of the previous person in the Chair, it was made very clear to us that we are within our rights to prosecute this section, which includes referring to what is in the schedule, because it was specifically around process\u2014if we need to do that. I guess the point I will make, just to push it through, is this wasn\u2019t something that was able to be discussed during the select committee process I was part of. This is our one and only chance to really challenge and work through this and dive deep into it. I just ask you to consider that, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022e32503b1c3c4489580e8a6fa04eee5fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e32503b1c3c4489580e8a6fa04eee5fd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Before we move on, I acknowledge the point of order, and my understanding is that Part 2 focuses on the process. In the sense that the projects that members are talking about are linked to the process and therefore to Part 2, then we\u2019re able to make those interventions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EBefore I move forward, though, members, I\u2019d just like to draw your attention to a new tabled amendment, from the Minister responsible for RMA Reform, to Schedule 2. This was lodged after the debate on Part 1 had concluded, so I\u2019m ruling that members can debate that amendment during this debate on Part 2. I would warn members, though, that this does not reopen a broad debate on Schedule 2. This amendment corrects a small error; it\u2019s in Schedule 2: item relating to Macraes phase 4 (MP4), page 129, which replaces the number 13,5000 with 13,500. There was an accidental zero there somewhere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u002254ab7919c9404b0b9828f7aa4c8f1309\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002254ab7919c9404b0b9828f7aa4c8f1309\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I am still on Part 2 referring to referrals, so this is not relevant to the 149 projects. I will get there, though. Again, I encourage the Minister for Energy to comment on the changes in the Amendment Paper\u2014to explain why they\u2019re there\u2014from those early clause 14s to where I am now, which is at clause 22B, \u201CCriteria for assessing referral applications\u201D. We, in my name this time, have some amendments on clause 22B, and the first is that at subclause (1)(a). It\u2019s \u201C(1) The criteria for accepting a referral application are that\u2014(a) the project is an infrastructure or development project that would have significant regional or national benefits;\u201D Of course, in line with the arguments I was making in Part 1 and that a number of people were, we would like the Minister to consider that that is changed to \u201Cpublic \u2026 project\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThen some further amendments are to delete, at clause 22B(2)(a), subparagraph (vi), which is about whether \u201Cthe Minister may consider\u2014(a) whether the project\u2014\u2026 (vi) will support development of natural resources, including minerals and petroleum:\u201D. This does not fit with any of what the Prime Minister has been saying over and over again at question time about how this bill is somehow going to help meet climate change objectives. Supporting the development of minerals and petroleum, particularly coal and petroleum, will not help us achieve our climate ambitions. I would like his opinion on deleting that. He may even say, \u201CWell, we think in terms of climate change that there are some minerals\u201D\u2014I note the Minister\u2019s interest in this\u2014\u201Cthat are going to be useful to make renewable energy.\u201D It may be that those minerals are included, but that coal, which does not help, to my knowledge, make wind turbines or electric cars or batteries or anything, is excluded. I would like the Minister\u2019s thoughts on that deletion or change to subparagraph (vi).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThen the third suggestion in this Amendment Paper, which is Amendment Paper 132\u2014apologies if I didn\u2019t say that originally\u2014is that the Minister also considers supporting green infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWe have also heard from the Prime Minister\u2014in question time, often\u2014that this bill is somehow going to support the environment, despite its focus on minerals and petroleum. One way\u2014a good way, a good show of good faith\u2014would be to make conclusions like this: that in fact, when referral applications are assessed, if it is going to be supporting green infrastructure\u2014or there could be many other terms for this; nature-based solutions is another name for it\u2014this would be good faith demonstration of how this bill can encourage things that are positive for the environment. That is, a nature-based solution might be the growing of Macrocystis and native seaweed on our coastlines to stop erosion. That would be an example of a nature-based solution or green infrastructure. It might be having wetlands to slow down stormwater flow\u2014those sorts of things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EIt seems to me a very easy amendment for the Government to make, one that would demonstrate some adherence to the rhetoric that we\u2019ve heard over and over again from the Prime Minister, that somehow this bill is going to be good for the environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u002298fa6e2c41ff4a98a2008bd5691a0ecb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298fa6e2c41ff4a98a2008bd5691a0ecb\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair\u2014first time rising in Part 2 of this debate, and I want to talk specifically about the process for referring an application in clause 14. My colleague Scott Willis has an Amendment Paper, 154, which I hope the Minister responsible for RMA Reform and the Government will consider, which is adding, in clause 14(3), after paragraph (a), \u201C(aa) [a requirement for] an outline of the regional or national benefits of the project, including\u2014(i) what those benefits are; \u2026 (ii) who will be the recipient of those benefits; and (iii) what the duration of those benefits will be:\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to point out that, if we go to clause 22B, \u201CCriteria for assessing [a] referral application\u201D, the very first criteria that is noted is \u201Cthe project is an infrastructure or development project that would have significant regional or national benefits;\u201D\u2014so that\u2019s clause 22B(1)(a). Then, if you go down to subclause (2)(iv), it \u201Cwill deliver significant economic benefits:\u201D. I guess the question is: these are the criteria for assessing the referral application; however, if we go earlier in the process, the details that are needed to assess those criteria aren\u2019t required or specified in the referral application under clause 14. There\u2019s a whole lot of information that is required both in the bill as amended from the Environment Committee and the Minister\u2019s substantive amendment, which was tabled yesterday, controversially, but there\u2019s a whole lot of information that\u2019s meant to be included in the referral application. We can look at that under clause 14(3), \u201Cdescription of the project and the activities [involved]:\u201D. There is \u201Can explanation of how the project meets the criteria\u201D, but I think that is quite vague.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI mean, the whole premise of this entire bill apparently rests upon the idea that we should be able to do projects faster on the basis that those projects will deliver benefits\u2014regional benefits, national benefits, economic benefits. That has been the mantra of the Government. However, if I can refer to an example in Schedule 2, which was different options for a new Mount Victoria Tunnel. In Schedule 2, there\u2019s different options for the Mount Victoria Tunnel. One of those that is in the Amendment Paper from the Minister has already been ruled out by the Government, but they did spend over a million dollars investigating a long tunnel\u2014still referred to\u2014so it could still potentially go on the fast track, but the Government says they won\u2019t do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThen we had a story released under the Official Information Act to Oli Lewis and BusinessDesk\u2014I think the Minister and Government members should be very interested in this\u2014about the economic assessment of the long tunnel, because the long tunnel was assessed as having a benefit-to-cost ratio of around 0.2 to maybe 0.6 if you try to include wider economic benefits, which, to be honest, don\u2019t really exist when it comes to road projects in cities; there\u2019s no empirical evidence for those economic benefits. It goes up 0.1; so the total range, the highest benefit we could get, was still under 1. What that means, if you do cost-benefit analysis, is that the costs of the project outweigh the benefit, therefore there are no net benefits\u2014regionally, nationally, there\u2019s no economic benefits from that project. That\u2019s the economic assessment that the Government spent a million dollars getting about the long tunnel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIf we go back to the other alternative, the parallel Mount Victoria Tunnel, which is also in Schedule 2, the most recent assessment of economic benefits for that project was similar: it was 0.2. That means the project costs five times more than the economic benefits that are purported from the project.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI think it is vitally important that this legislation\u2014and, Mr Chair, I\u2019m going to ask for a second call to continue on this, because we\u2019ve got an Amendment Paper here that would just make it very, very clear that the applicants, when they are proposing a project that they want to be referred for fast track, have specific outlines of regional, national benefits of the project, what the benefits are, and who they accrue to. That\u2019s Amendment Paper 154, and I can\u2019t see why the Minister or the Government wouldn\u2019t want to include something like this, because if you\u2019re going to assess a project\u2014whether it should be fast tracked\u2014then you need to have that information about what the benefits are, who they accrue to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIf we take the example of the Mount Victoria Tunnel, which is in Schedule 2, and we just look at both the options that are listed in Schedule 2, the benefit-cost ratios that are on the record show that these projects are a net loss to the country. They do not generate economic benefits. They do not generate national or regional benefits. There\u2019s a whole host of evidence from around the world that shows that when you add a car lane in the middle of the city, it does not actually reduce congestion. It does not reduce transport costs. Within a very short period of time, the road fills up with cars and then you have more pollution, you have more congestion, you\u2019ve got the damage to the environment and the climate of all the materials that you used, that 10 years of disruption to build the project, there\u2019s carbon emissions involved in building these projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe biggest tragedy from my point of view is that the Government is doing this on the basis that it\u2019s going to be good for the economy and have these great benefits when the objective information says it does not\u2014it does not. It\u2019s just an article of absolute religious faith, which I know\u2014you know, the Minister in the chair there obviously believes that God has told him that these roads are going to be good for the economy and are the right thing to do. But look at the evidence; look at the numbers. The Government is talking about spending billions and billions of dollars on projects that are a net loss to the country for no good outcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThis whole fast track, it\u2019s really important: if we\u2019re going to talk about fast-tracking and using this process to bypass a normal process\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260a0838246d647ffb305e9232eea1ad9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. If we could link that back to the process, that would help the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022123145c11f254d4f9943db47787a638a\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. We\u2019ve got the criteria for assessing a referral application. There\u2019s no requirement for the information to be provided, so how will the Minister for Infrastructure be able to assess the referral application on the basis of regional or national benefits or economic benefits if that information has not been provided with the application? Of course, like, in the case of this Government and its priorities, it\u2019s already said it\u2019s going to do these projects, supposedly on the basis of benefits, when the benefits actually are not there\u2014there are no benefits. Why would we trade off the environment to do a project on the basis of economic benefit when, objectively, there is no economic benefit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI think that when previously projects have gone to a board of inquiry process\u2014for example, the Basin Bridge project went to the board of inquiry that was appointed by the National Government; a different process that was trying to streamline nationally significant projects\u2014that project was declined on the basis of the evidence that it was going to create significant harm and there was not the evidence of benefit. I think we\u2019re in a difficult situation because our entire environmental legislation and this Fast-track Approvals Bill is set up to kind of assess what the environmental impacts are going to be, and judges who are making decisions on cases that may have gone to the Environment Court\u2014been appealed when the consent\u2019s been granted\u2014and people are making the case that there\u2019s going to be all this environmental damage but we\u2019re told, \u201COh, well, but there\u2019ll be economic benefits, so it\u2019s justified.\u201D But, actually, where in that process do we have the experts weighing up whether the evidence around the economics is actually there? Often, they say that\u2019s out of scope. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI just think this Amendment Paper 154 is one small step towards ensuring that there is information about the benefits\u2014who receives the benefits, what the duration of the benefits are\u2014which would be important for being able to assess an application. Of course, there\u2019s many more amendments that my colleagues have that would make this process more robust, but let\u2019s just be really honest here that this Government doesn\u2019t actually, whatever they say, it doesn\u2019t appear\u2014well, it\u2019s definitely clear they don\u2019t care about the environment, they don\u2019t care about the climate, but it appears they don\u2019t actually care about economic benefit or cost-effectiveness either, because they\u2019re pushing forward a bunch of destructive projects that have terrible benefit-cost ratios, the worst benefit-cost ratios we\u2019ve ever seen in this country, at a cost of billions of dollars while they sever the rail connection with the South Island, while they deny the South Island from having a hospital. Yet they\u2019re going to spend billions of dollars on a tunnel in Wellington that delivers negative economic benefits. It\u2019s outrageous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0ca8d66aed74dc897911fd23516f4b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0ca8d66aed74dc897911fd23516f4b1\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister for Energy):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, for the opportunity to take a call and respond to those questions. Clause 14(3)(a) requires those putting forward a project for referral to explain how the project meets the criteria in clause 22B, and the detail would be in the standard application. That would include whether that\u2019s for a roading project or whether it\u2019s for car parks outside a Green Party office, I imagine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIn terms of other questions that have been raised in terms of minerals and petroleum, this Government\u2019s been very clear in our view around the importance of minerals and petroleum. We\u2019ve seen the impact this year with a significant downgrade in our reserves of natural gas and the impact that\u2019s had on the industrial base of New Zealand and the incredibly high electricity prices. Even the Climate Change Commission has, in their demonstration pathway, outlined the need for natural gas out beyond 2050. We\u2019re very clear in the need for minerals and petroleum as part of the transition going forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIn terms of the issue of seabed mining, and the question was raised around our obligations, international obligations, or our position\u2014that is in regards to seabed mining in the high seas. What happens within New Zealand\u2019s economic zone is different, and obviously, there\u2019s a process here in which those applications have to go through, and that is what we\u2019re discussing here: the referral process, the criteria, and how those consultations have to be undertaken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIn terms of the question around consulting with M\u0101ori, it\u2019s very clear around the criteria and how an applicant must prove that they\u2019ve done that. At the end of the day, the Environmental Protection Authority and the Ministry for the Environment will undertake checks to ensure that the parties required to be consulted have been consulted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7bbd79f420043eb825becddb9c1536a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7bbd79f420043eb825becddb9c1536a\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I have some small comments still on the referral process and I\u2019m still referring in large part to this Amendment Paper, Amendment Paper 238, that was tabled yesterday. At clause 22D, which is \u201CMinister may determine that linear infrastructure on certain identified M\u0101ori land is not ineligible activity\u201D, there\u2019s a new subclause (4) at the end, and there\u2019s some other changes, that says\u2014actually, I think I would have just answered my question on that because something has been struck out but then it has been replaced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThat leads to the question: at subclause (4), it did say, \u201CIn this section,\u2014electricity lines means [blah, blah, blah]\u201D, and then, \u201Cland transport infrastructure means [things]\u201D, and, now, it\u2019s been replaced with new subclause (4), which just refers to \u201Cland transport infrastructure\u201D, and I\u2019m wondering why, then, that deletion of \u201Celectricity lines\u201D at subclause (4) has happened. This is, of course, the difficulty when you get large amendments on the day that you are discussing something in committee of the whole House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThen there\u2019s a lot more information about electricity lines at clause 22DA and it\u2019s that \u201CMinister may determine that electricity infrastructure on certain Schedule 3A land or in national reserve is not ineligible activity\u201D. I won\u2019t go through it all, but I the question is: is the result of these changes to enable more electricity infrastructure rather than land transport infrastructure on conservation land or reserve land? That\u2019s the question with those changes. Again, there are more changes to clause 23AAA, and the Minister for Energy might want to explain why they are in there\u2014and in clause 24.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EIf I move through, though, now, to Subpart 2A, this is the \u201CSteps before lodging substantive application\u201D. This includes steps for the listed projects, so, of course, it is relevant\u00A0to everything that is in Schedule 2. There\u2019s a lot of changes, again, in the Amendment Paper, and I won\u2019t go through all of them, but it would be useful if the Minister could explain why all these changes were necessary and if any of them are substantive or if they\u2019re moving things around, and for clarification only.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ESomething that is quite new and different is at clause 24AF, and that is that the \u201CMinister may determine that project is priority\u201D. It seems to be very new that there is this priority process now, and my question on that is: why is it required? I assume it is because there are 149 projects on that list and there has been no work done on that list. To determine when these different issues are in conflict with each other would be one point that you might want to prioritise for. Another point would be that some of them may be still years away from being processed. I\u2019d like the Minister to confirm if that\u2019s an issue or not. This is a big dream for somebody to have their project done, but they want to go through the Fast-track Approvals Bill and get all the consents, all the permissions, in place before they go ahead and build the thing. Then, of course, if that is correct, the question is: then why do you need a fast-track process for that? That\u2019s my question on clause 24AF.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThen, if we keep moving forward to clause 24C\u2014this is a very important one that I would like to reflect on briefly\u2014and that is \u201CAuthorised person may lodge substantive application for approvals\u201D. There are a number of changes in this Amendment Paper, and it looks like the intent might be that it\u2019s an addition to what can be approved in this Amendment Paper from what was reported back from the select committee. I\u2019m particularly interested if the Minister can confirm whether or not clause 24C expands the range of things that can be considered in the amendment version of the bill, as compared with the select committee version of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022 data-id=\u00225f2b8953914c44cb8cddc3dec4351115\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f2b8953914c44cb8cddc3dec4351115\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m going to be really specific about my contribution and I want to speak to proposed Amendment Paper 153. This is about Part 2, clause 14. Currently clause 14(2) has that \u201CThe referral application must\u2014specify all of the proposed approvals, but need only provide a general level of detail about each proposed approval, sufficient to inform the Minister\u2019s decision on the referral application;\u201D. Now, our proposal is actually to replace \u201Cbut need only provide a general\u201D level of detail with \u201Cand need to provide a specific\u201D level of detail. That then goes on to refer to the level of detail that would inform the Minister for Infrastructure\u2019s decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003ENow, why this is so important is because\u2014again, I mean the Government themselves; the whole premise of this bill is that it\u2019s purported to be projects of such a scale that they are considered to be regionally or nationally significant. What\u2019s really concerning about this is some of these projects\u2014and I\u2019ll just mention one that I\u2019ve personally visited the project proposed site of, and that\u2019s the Bendigo mine or, in the actual schedule, it\u2019s referred to as Matakanui Gold Limited mine. This mine is of an immense proportion. If people are aware of Central Otago, it extends all the way from Bendigo and that Bendigo range to Ophir, and it\u2019s of a massive scale.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019m really concerned about and what I\u2019d like the Minister for Energy to comment on: why be so high level about the level of detail required for these Ministers to actually make informed decisions at this point; rather than having a more specific, comprehensive level of detail in terms of it being a far more robust decision-making process? It will mean fewer mistakes and not only can things be avoided, but it would actually mean that the Minister themselves actually have all the information at hand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EWe just saw, for example, the Government introduced this last-minute amendment that had a quite significant difference in one of the scale sizes of one of the mines. Now, this is exactly what we want to get rid of. We want these applicants, if they are applying, to be extremely specific and comprehensive in the applications so that we can actually understand, and the Minister can understand, in the really important decision about whether to refer those projects on to the expert panel and through the fast-track process, that they actually have that information to hand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003ENow, presumably\u2014but I\u2019m not sure and I\u2019m interested in the Minister informing me of this\u2014the Minister can call on more information from the projects, but if they were just up front about the level of detail necessary to allow the Minister to actually make a very considered decision about the referral application, then there wouldn\u2019t need to be this sort of back and forth that occurs and the Minister would be able to have the information to hand to actually make that decision comprehensively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac09405f86ab4d5a9249d7de5cea3346\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac09405f86ab4d5a9249d7de5cea3346\u0022\u003ECUSHLA TANGAERE-MANUEL (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. K\u0101re e roa taku t\u016B engari kei te t\u016B au ki te waha i ng\u0101 whakaaro a ng\u0101 hap\u016B o Tokomaru Bay. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Chair. My speech won\u2019t be a long one, but I stand to give voice to the thoughts of the hap\u016B of Tokomaru Bay.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. I have a very specific, process-oriented question on behalf of Te Wh\u0101nau-a-Ruataupare and Te Ao Tawarirangi relating to the Gisborne District Council Tokomaru Bay legacy landfill contaminated land remediation project, not in Gisborne but up the coast\u2014Tair\u0101whiti.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003EAnyone who lives in Aotearoa will be aware of the existential threat recent weather events had in Tokomaru Bay, so therefore any remediation of land is obviously welcome in the rohe. The hap\u016B collective of Te Wh\u0101nau-a-Ruataupare and Te Ao Tawarirangi have established an excellent relationship\u2014to use their words\u2014with council. In terms of the process moving forward, can the Minister provide reassurance or, even better, guarantees that any pre-existing arrangements between Te Wh\u0101nau-a-Ruataupare, Te Ao Tawarirangi, and the Tair\u0101whiti Gisborne District Council will be respected? And, in terms of the process moving forward, will the Minister guarantee that Te Wh\u0101nau-a-Ruataupare and Te Ao Tawarirangi will be involved in that project to completion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003EAlso with regard to process, just looking at the Hawke\u2019s Bay Expressway, I know that project is already under way, but in considering that it has been proposed as toll\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b15f22b755a34a1a807dc45ca7f00f2f\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: We don\u2019t muck around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226497b6fb59d542b1a54a0e1ca12a8a69\u0022\u003ECUSHLA TANGAERE-MANUEL\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022650a741c6bea4203bd762c3c742d1a81\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: We just get on with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201f7ad9b1b544fa8a4decdcd5989203d\u0022\u003ECUSHLA TANGAERE-MANUEL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, sometimes that\u2019s a shame, because sometimes when you don\u2019t muck around and you just get on with it, people who are impacted don\u2019t get the full consultation they deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003ESpeaking of impacts around that project, given that it\u2019s already gone and considering people impacted, such as, specifically, Piringa Hap\u016B, for example, in \u014Cm\u0101hu\u2014moving forward, what processes will be put in place to address the concerns they have about the increased traffic flow that\u2019s going to go through there? \u014Cm\u0101hu was also devastated by Cyclone Gabrielle, but they have gone through a process of restoring their marae and restoring and repopulating their community, and so now they\u2019re concerned that they\u2019re going to see an increase of traffic flow through their back roads and they are concerned about the safety of their tamariki and their community in general. They\u2019ve recently opened their school. Piringa Hap\u016B: were they consulted in terms of process anyway? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003EMoving forward\u2014because it already is happening\u2014what will the process be to address the concerns of hap\u016B such as Piringa Hap\u016B and any other communities in surrounding areas that might be impacted while that work is going on and once the toll is put in place, because we know people are struggling? People may opt to take back roads instead of paying a toll daily to get to where they need to get.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022178f0b4ccc6242a0afededcbdc89ad8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022178f0b4ccc6242a0afededcbdc89ad8b\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister for Energy):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It\u2019s great to see the Opposition recognising the progress of roading already under way under this Government, and it\u2019s fantastic to see. I was down in the Hawke\u2019s Bay just recently, just seeing the progress on the Hawke\u2019s Bay Expressway, and the road construction\u2019s already under way. We don\u2019t muck around, we get things done, and how much more we\u2019re going to be able to get things done with fast track\u2014that\u2019s what it\u2019s all about. Of course, the last Government was very good at writing endless business cases, which they didn\u2019t even complete\u2014the business cases, I mean\u2014that\u2019s how good they were: they didn\u2019t even complete the business cases. How appalling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EAnyway, there are a number of very good questions here from members in terms of the issues that have been raised. In terms of the referral application and the level of detail, the referral application is not intended to require a level of detail required at the substandard application; it is meant to be sufficient to inform the Minister for Infrastructure of the scope and eligibility, consultation, and affected persons, to give the Minister the ability to then make a decision whether to refer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIn terms of the electricity lines, there is a prioritisation here, due to the need to, obviously, deliver that infrastructure in New Zealand, which is critical to the electrification opportunities and also the doubling of electricity generation that\u2019s required to meet our net zero 2050 targets. That\u2019s why the changes in the bill are being proposed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9223e564c1e483b92959428a9edf0e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9223e564c1e483b92959428a9edf0e3\u0022\u003ECELIA WADE-BROWN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. My question to the Minister for Energy is, firstly, concerned with clause 14AAA\u2014sounds like a battery, but it\u2019s not. It\u2019s the consultation requirement\u2014what it says, what it doesn\u2019t. For example, will both Kahungunu Iwi Inc. and hauk\u0101inga be included in consultation about the \u201Czombie project\u201D formerly known as the Ruataniwha Dam? Plans for that billion-dollar dam were scrapped nearly seven years ago when the Supreme Court said the land swap was unlawful, and rebranding the project doesn\u2019t change its fundamentals. I refer to the Tukituki Water Security project in Schedule 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003EI also want to ask about further consultation and the record of that consultation. Will an applicant who consulted with Forest \u0026amp; Bird be expected to provide the results of that consultation, or will they never be consulted ever again on any of these projects? I look forward to the Minister surprising me. Whether a project\u2019s owned by a council organisation or a community trust, the effects are the same. This project in central Hawke\u2019s Bay would see a dam built on the Makaroro River and the flooding of 22 hectares of conservation land. How would Fish \u0026amp; Game be able to contribute their knowledge of the trout fisheries there? How would the local health professionals be able to note that with the current water quality in the Ruataniwha aquifer amongst the worst in the country\u2014we\u2019ve got Hawke\u2019s Bay cases of both bladder and colorectal cancer higher than the national average; so are premature births and infant mortality. There is no way, unless I am convinced otherwise, that the fast track bill is capable of considering these wider issues that a project may invoke.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003EOf course, it\u2019s not just human beings. Which iwi is going to be consulted about the effect on native species? I\u2019d like to quote that, for this particular project, freshwater advocate Tom Kay notes that there will be fernbirds, m\u0101t\u0101t\u0101; long-tailed bats, pekapeka; and the New Zealand falcon, k\u0101rearea with themselves or their habitats wiped out. Please, address the consultation that could possibly shed light on these important issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003EFinally, I\u2019d like to also say: what about Future Farms Aotearoa? We\u2019re talking about dramatic climate change here, increased floods and droughts in the east of the country. I\u2019m not suggesting we do nothing. Would Future Farms Aotearoa be able to contribute some alternative information talking about how we can improve the soil to improve its water retention, rather than see the topsoil lost? I\u2019d like to refer to our wonderful Green leader Jeanette Fitzsimons who talked about our greatest export being topsoil. Whether it\u2019s taken off by floods or it\u2019s taken off by wind, where is the intelligent input to these projects that says we can make them better or there are alternatives? I look forward to hearing your answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022886daa0a8a9240a7bb47bbbfaf565b5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022886daa0a8a9240a7bb47bbbfaf565b5c\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister for Energy):\u003C/span\u003E In relation to some of the issues raised by the member, there are a range of conservation entities which will be asked to provide comment and that is in Schedule 5, clause 4 of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00224c2914e302434c64b7544b2748bd9be8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c2914e302434c64b7544b2748bd9be8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the time has come for me to leave the Chair for the lunch break. The committee is suspended and will resume after oral questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 12.57 p.m. to 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002257499a80fdcc47b68e99dc3fd87ec664\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022034928a9843648328c378157b389329f\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e1b17d0f58404c0aae3b60880eff0907\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022be12dd6ec5a849f6b70d787be402d750\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be12dd6ec5a849f6b70d787be402d750\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has she seen on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022586d54bf12ea4c089db5111112a705ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022586d54bf12ea4c089db5111112a705ec\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Two weeks ago, the Reserve Bank made a 50 basis-point reduction in the official cash rate (OCR). The bank has now reduced the OCR in three consecutive meetings by a total of 125 basis points. It\u2019s forecast OCR track indicates another reduction at the next meeting in February and further falls in 2025. Reductions in the OCR, of course, affect mortgage and business lending rates, which have a direct impact on New Zealand families and businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226364c72b73544ca7b4d0b3b70f26d4e9\u0022\u003ENancy Lu\u003C/span\u003E: How have OCR reductions affected businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222354fa1ac9164e1885ceaf57aff0a188\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Every business is unique, but a good aggregate picture is shown in the monthly ANZ Business Outlook survey. Business confidence is high. Firms\u2019 expectations of their own future activity is high; their experienced activity, compared to a year ago, is negative but steadily improving, suggesting that interest rate reductions are changing actual behaviour, not just expectations. As ANZ itself points out, the economy is clearly still weak, but things are starting to turn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9665195e5d64c08b9f1ccc0f9a1deaf\u0022\u003ENancy Lu\u003C/span\u003E: How have OCR reductions affected households?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e82d7b844fd84008b3beabc22421a8f4\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: OCR reductions will directly impact households through lower mortgage rates. For someone with a $500,000 mortgage, the difference between an 8 percent mortgage and a 7 percent mortgage is around $140 a fortnight, depending on the term. And that comes, of course, on top of tax relief, which took effect on 31 July this year, and the FamilyBoost childcare payments that many households are now receiving. While each family has its own set of circumstances, many will be feeling better off than they were a year ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cde748bba28472bbb842d57b3d0ea6d\u0022\u003ENancy Lu\u003C/span\u003E: How is consumer confidence tracking?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abc252143e184e53b33d26b9780614e9\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: ANZ - Roy Morgan Consumer Confidence jumped nine points in November, and both the current and future conditions indexes lifted markedly. ANZ\u2019s conclusion is that \u201CBoth households and businesses are optimistic that falling inflation and interest rates will deliver better times ahead.\u201D And I\u2019d also add, for the benefit of many of the National Party and other coalition members, that a forecast milk price of $10 a kilo is making rural communities across New Zealand a lot happier about life and about their prospects for next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c500e9f5a7d84af1a837db28e9ff55f6\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00227eaf7acb7c3340a093396390886bf60f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227eaf7acb7c3340a093396390886bf60f\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u002288bf9f3bef4b46da9e2862dc0532d45f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288bf9f3bef4b46da9e2862dc0532d45f\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and especially our action to unleash growth and investment so that we can rebuild the New Zealand economy. Last night, the next stage in the passage of the Fast-track Approvals Bill kicked off\u2014critical legislation designed to unshackle investment in infrastructure, renewable energy, housing, and a raft of industries that are hungry to grow. We are serious about growth and infrastructure on this side of the House, and fast track is a big part of delivering that vision, and it\u2019s good to see that we\u2019re not alone. It was fantastic to see Labour MP Rachel Boyack give an impassioned speech this morning on one of those projects on the fast-track list: the Hope Bypass. As I\u2019ve said many times before: like many of the fellow Labour MPs, if he\u2019s serious about the future, don\u2019t play politics; support fast track. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d55000998f24238a90bb1aae82df9d8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why, over a year after cancelling, via text message, the $551 million order for two new Interislander ferries, has the Government still not decided what\u2019s going to replace them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adb3be1a5ef14b83859b186907efc4c5\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m very proud that today we announced an incredibly fantastic, incredible plan to actually ensure we have a resilient, safe, and reliable crossing on the Cook Strait, at a reasonable cost. I\u2019m very proud of the plan that we\u2019ve got. We\u2019ve got a great plan: two rail-compatible ferries, an opportunity to improve it even further between now and March, and, importantly, the new ferries will be operational, on time, on the 2029. And isn\u2019t it fantastic to have a new Minister for Rail who\u2019s got the expertise\u2014it\u2019s not his first rodeo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbc8e46b9914424493ba83c8aadfe251\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: So how\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba996934a67340ba942821f1fd4bd127\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before the Rt Hon Mr Hipkins asks his questions, I just ask those people down in that sort of centre part of the House there who appear to have better answers than the Prime Minister to perhaps put them in writing and table them in the House rather than just trying to shout them out when no one\u2019s listening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aa3256910ed43578c371dbab92b210b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: How much will the new Interislander ferries cost, and why wouldn\u2019t Nicola Willis share that with the public, given David Seymour seems happy to announce it via Twitter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022335c1c10df8a4e3e93f762095b31ca8c\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: What I\u2019d say is it\u2019s going to cost a lot less than the $3.2 billion heading to $4 billion. And maybe, for the member\u2019s benefit, we could just\u00A0take him through a bit of the history, because in November 2018, the cost was originally $775 million; one year later, 19 November, it doubled to $1.4 billion; February 2023, it was up at $2.6 billion; and by the time we got to November last year, it was actually $3 billion; and then, in July last year, they were told it\u2019s actually closing approximately $4 billion. So what I can reassure that member is that you won\u2019t see the Labour playbook that we\u2019ve seen\u00A0on ferries and Dunedin and K\u0101inga Ora; we\u2019re actually going to do it a lot cheaper than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262c2a00c0b084ecca37f9e5bcf0459a7\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government\u2019s commitment to delivering the new ferries for less than the estimated cost of the iReX project include costs transferred to other parties such as the port companies, ratepayers, and users?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a541c2425814c83b284b0b28cfd123b\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d just say to that member: do not worry, we have a fantastic Minister for Rail; he will deliver it on time, in full, under budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5b2517c213d416d931e1d2f408ca012\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: In that case, what does it say about his confidence in Nicola Willis that he\u2019s transferred responsibility for rail and the Interislander to Winston Peters, who set up the iReX project that Nicola Willis cancelled, creating this mess in the first place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6e76120c4724828aef33eea0812b9e8\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely false. The first thing is that the new Minister for Rail signed up to a project at $775 million, not close to $4 billion, because when Labour people get in charge, they don\u2019t run the money well and they let it blow out. And I\u2019d just say we have the best Minister of Finance this country has seen for a very long time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259f12da248574a628fdaf1972a3c6eab\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the Prime Minister for the chance of putting the record straight. Is it not a fact that what we\u2019re dealing with is a decision in May 2020, it was for the Crown to allocate $400.1 million to KiwiRail to fund the new two ferries project when I was the last Minister, and those are the facts that he cannot deny?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d3e27ab9e464caeb66bea1568923b20\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m just very excited to have that member as our new Minister for Rail. I know his leadership, his experience, and his expertise on this subject will be well appreciated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022805a3fe1e03142b98dd7dc3374fa2ca4\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: If he\u2019s so confident that the new Interislander ferries are going to be such better value for money, why can\u2019t he tell New Zealanders, one year on, how much they\u2019re going to cost, who\u2019s going to build them, when they\u2019re going to arrive, whether they\u2019re going to be able to have trains on them, and what the costs for other users are going to be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222326972c140c461098e380c8432eadf0\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: That member\u2019s question just illustrates the economic illiteracy from the other side. Because if you knew anything about forming contracts and getting capital approved, you don\u2019t reveal\u2014for commercial sensitivity reasons\u2014the actual budget. That\u2019s quite normal commercial practice. But I appreciate nobody on the front bench has actually run stuff, understands how it works. But I just say to you, I\u2019m very confident we\u2019re going to get a great project and a great result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022562b97f7bf1041a8811f015369733070\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: One year after cancelling the order for the previous Interislander ferries, will he now tell the New Zealand public how much the decision to cancel the ferries has cost?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220520c58826674c52a52ec69383fa43a4\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, our budgets are commercially sensitive\u2014for the reasons I\u2019ve just tried to outline to that member. But what I find quite outrageous is the Leader of the Opposition is the arsonist who lights the fire and then criticises the fire brigade for trying to put it out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225aa34022e5d14f949743b477fc7b6c6e\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister aware that one of his Ministers\u2014Minister Seymour\u2014said on the bridge today that these ferries will not be rail-enabled?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa8a307f6ca54088aa465796aa62f1aa\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: These are ferries that will be rail compatible and they will be delivered at a much cheaper price than the $4 billion that it was heading to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a0af749967a4b31a28493e5add5d774\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I hesitate to do this, but I don\u2019t believe I actually said that. Therefore, the member is potentially misleading the House, although I suspect unknowingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212272f1f5ad144d18a5a0dc52f53a2aa\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: For whatever reason, I just couldn\u2019t hear what you just said, sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2e8a63d6a184a7482d718d2dd89d37c\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I hesitate to raise this, but I don\u2019t believe I actually said that and, therefore, the member is, perhaps unwittingly, misleading the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d761383740a419ba7bdd7521e4cf462\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m not quite sure how we progress here. Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, have you in any way misrepresented the statement by David Seymour?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f94e1f00e065463abc90fb4ae11a2034\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Not that I am aware of, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m more than happy to go away and to check the facts there, but this information has come directly from the tiles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cd2d3b166cb43bebdb9e5c3343c09ae\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That would probably be a good idea and a fair thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022656c07391eec43c882172f801adb9782\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u00223ab2c91b702b447a879ac2174dc1adba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ab2c91b702b447a879ac2174dc1adba\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: E tautoko ana ia i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero me ng\u0101 mahi katoa a t\u014Dna K\u0101wanatanga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E[Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7abef39437546d3a271e0a33d3cc051\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7abef39437546d3a271e0a33d3cc051\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and especially our action to deliver on net zero 2050. Whatever we hear about climate change from the other side, and it\u2019s often bad news, we\u2019re not pushing up prices higher by turning off natural gas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a719d59952bd42748ba87cabec1e82e5\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s just not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf208db7705b46f09071b3d274016f04\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re not shutting down industries and driving farmers off the land. We\u2019re not making life harder by forcing Kiwis out of their cars. Here\u2019s the good news: on our plan, we repeal the broken oil and gas ban, we keep agriculture out of the emissions trading scheme, and we still hit net carbon zero six years earlier, in 2044. There\u2019s a lot more to do, but our emissions reduction plan (ERP) 2 plan is a good one. It delivers emissions budget (EB) 1 and 2, and we\u2019re on the right track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214e42d31cb904dacb2297b5fa7419154\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just tell Government members that their interjections while a Minister from their own side is trying to give an answer are most unhelpful and add nothing to the value of the Minister\u2019s answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022097271d2407144ddac0ca54df8178adb\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The member who\u2019s just resumed her seat has previously been admonished by the House for accusing the same member, the Prime Minister, of lying or misleading the House. She\u2019s just been shouting that what the Prime Minister\u2019s saying is \u201Cjust not true\u201D, which would appear to be doing exactly the same thing. She\u2019s either a very slow learner or doesn\u2019t respect the rules of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022187067bd29d54094ae62e73fcac0e241\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The response to that has to be that it is inappropriate to allege that someone in here is deliberately tampering with the truth, and so I\u2019d ask the member to resist making those sorts of comments across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b72cbb06933142d5b152a4258bf5acf1\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister aware that his Government\u2019s final emissions reduction plan published today somehow does even a worse job for emissions reduction than his draft version?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad15dc0b7ca74c8aaef71ce448355730\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: What I\u2019d say to that member is we are committed to delivering on net zero 2050. ERP 2, which we released today, confirms that we are in good shape on EB 1. Emissions budget 2, we\u2019re in good shape. We\u2019ve got more work to do on emissions budget 3, but ever since the draft plan was announced and where we got to today, we\u2019ve actually halved the deficit or the progress that we need to make in that space. That doesn\u2019t kick in till 2031 to 2035. We\u2019ve got some time to sort that out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229566800e155a4c3397669eb781830535\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Why is his Government\u2019s emissions reduction plan actively taking us off track to meet emissions budget 3?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233c9ae4ecc69439986807c30b383345c\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I disagree. It\u2019s delivering EB 1 and EB 2, which is the pathway that gets us to net zero 2050. Equally, it\u2019s encouraging to see that we may be able to reach that goal much quicker, in 2044, six years earlier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e00a8c4ca2d945d4b6e8d24719ffcc6e\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister aware that his Government\u2019s policy decisions to reverse the oil and gas ban, which he just mentioned; cancel the Clean Car Discount; and encourage consenting of new coal mines in its fast-track process will increase emissions by, at a minimum, an extra 81 million tonnes, and will he take responsibility for the long-term impacts of those emissions on behalf of everyone in Aotearoa?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279656326e4e44cc499bc209b6b26314a\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: ERP 2 delivers on EB 2. That\u2019s the pathway by which we hit net zero 2050. I\u2019d just say to that member, we don\u2019t believe in importing Indonesian coal and not having domestic gas as we make that transition. I\u2019d encourage the Green Party to support the end of the oil and gas ban, support us on fast track, and support us on our gene tech legislation as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7ce4219f306434e9cff5bfdf8b9c5c8\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any Government policy, statement, or action that would prevent non-executive members of Parliament from the Government side from supporting the Unlawful Occupation of Palestine Sanctions Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295fb744464074d39bd6f0878bb356531\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I haven\u2019t seen the nature of the bill that I understand that member has just announced in the time we were coming into the House. I\u2019m happy to look at it, but what I\u2019d just say to you is that our position has been that those settlements are illegal under international law. The best way forward, as you know, is a two-State solution, and we\u2019ve been taking sanctions against extremist settlers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa937abbac0844288f3e9044357b83b3\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: So the Prime Minister can confirm that his Government MPs, as a result of no policy, statement, or action currently existing to the opposite\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3a33be2ccd64954aee2c4c2f7c3bdd6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Reword that question. You can\u2019t start by telling the Prime Minister what he\u2019s going to say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb16d6a0f8074cba987b340835c1cbb7\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister then confirm that his Government MPs are therefore free to vote with their conscience on the Unlawful Occupation of Palestine Sanctions Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a24f4184b2f04c4aa3a4269e079e658b\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t know how to explain this, but as I understand it, the member has just proposed a bill. We haven\u2019t seen the bill, so\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbb5fbc40fca429888c57ac8246276fa\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s in your inbox.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d880b224f7147ea98d45a6a86d29a3f\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s in my inbox from an hour ago. No disrespect; it\u2019s big for you, but there\u2019s a bit more going on as we run the country, so we will get to the bill. I\u2019ll have a good look at the bill, but in fairness, I haven\u2019t seen it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223071046eeb2e4753a6eccecee7c9258e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I might also point out\u2014[Interruption] That\u2019s enough. I might also point out that a question like that is in the nature of a question to a leader of a party, which is not a position that enables questions to be answered in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229464ad9429294ca98af9c4a164fb6d63\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Rail\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u00220c6c823d2c5640d5b7599ea5c6ae3aab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c6c823d2c5640d5b7599ea5c6ae3aab\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Rail: Does he agree with the statement of the Minister of Finance that \u201Cthe Government\u2019s alternative ferry solution for the Cook Strait will cost less than the iRex project\u201D; if so, how much will the total Crown contribution be, compared to the $2.2 billion Crown contribution that was planned for project iRex?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1b071276a054486abdc60839c3ece5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1b071276a054486abdc60839c3ece5c\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister for Rail):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I agree with the Minister of Finance. But in answer to the second part of her question, the member asserts that the Crown\u2019s contribution would have been $2.2 billion for Project iReX, but that seriously understates what had been the case, and Treasury, under the Official Information Act that this information was made available to that member, said it could go past $4 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5bdea50aefc44fbb8f394ce48524f46\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Is he confident that the total Crown contribution will be less than the $2.2 billion agreed under the previous Government for Project iReX?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022565097baedc141999634d1d369f73993\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The answer to that is most assuredly, or, as Little River Band sang, \u201CHang on, help is on its way.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022924ee347c8854a0391bdf21ffa1ef61b\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Will he keep the option of rail-enabled ferries open, even though the ferries may be smaller?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd63a5dbd4004a9fb5c447890c9f2b1e\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The reality is that all aspects going forward, having picked up this mess that we inherited, are going to be looked at. We\u2019ll look at every option we possibly can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022458572411b574420b1e5e30bf52aa8dc\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t be so harsh on Nicola!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e8b7338fb9c4f8ead435216be31eeac\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I beg your pardon\u2014say again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022772aed73e7e0470d877f567599dc73cf\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t be so harsh on Nicola!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aba55f24ab8140cf9e35c42bf63a2d6f\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no, no, the poor Minister of Finance was trying to deal with an absolute blowout of people who toss money around like an eight-armed octopus, with no idea what they\u2019re doing with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec9d77825ee441698ff517ebf06a07d5\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: What are the estimated costs of the minimal viable option for the wharves used by KiwiRail in Picton, given they reach their estimated useful life in 2029?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdd2078dfc244f799ecc6ac19723c2c0\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: My answer to that member\u2019s question is that in every aspect we will be frugal and sensible and wise about public expenditure. We\u2019ll be as careful about spending the taxpayer\u2019s money as if we are spending our own money, and that\u2019s why you can be assured that out there in the industry, they\u2019re cheering from the rafters at the change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278a72af5e4fd4aa691cf0ed3e8a49904\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: What is the estimated cost of an extra 55,000 container move-on, move-off wagons in Wellington and Picton, per year, over the lifetime of the ferries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281bbc6d3a8b84bd7bd948ee61cdbf08d\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just say that the first aspect of any business negotiation is not to tell the other party what you want. The very advice being given over there shows a certain innocence\u2014no commercial skills, don\u2019t know how to close a deal, don\u2019t know how to start the deal, and, first of all, you\u2019re spending taxpayers\u2019 money while you learn on the job. We\u2019re not going to do that, are we?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cba1cce43634f7fa8759b3b285487ca\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Can he guarantee that the operations currently being undertaken by KiwiRail will not be privatised?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7d75d81d03d441e8c7e30672efbbbec\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Let me just say that there have been no discussions about that whatsoever on this side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f12f78584e014d5a8567889a2f269e31\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Can you guarantee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a84d1dd426d48e383f39ea5835df6f2\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, one more time, slowly: there have been no discussions whatsoever, so what do you mean any guarantees?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ad45e6001ff4667974d2fdcf8c131bc\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Can you guarantee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022158b358cb01843798580948a7e0cea8b\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: One more time: there have been no discussions at all, so why would we be required to give a guarantee? Unless, of course, you\u2019ve come to this House with so little experience about the tactics and strategies of being a good Opposition member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022646b9c00c22147718531c25f68a0b99c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just keep the answers away from the interjections\u2014they\u2019re not of great value.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226946314239494562ad7bfc8d8c16c3ac\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Can he assure the New Zealand public that he will do a better job than the Minister of Finance, who, in a year, has only delivered an announcement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249f97314497740d79abdd978eb92188f\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The reality is that the Minister of Finance inherited a disaster. We had hardly come into Government, and there was Treasury saying, \u201CLook, this could blow out. It\u2019s already got to $2.8 billion and it could possibly blow out to $4 billion.\u201D That\u2019s all in the Treasury advice that they had, and they should have shared it with the public as they were coming into the 2023 campaign. Were they transparent? No, they never told the public a darn thing about it, and we picked up this absolute mess. So I\u2019m not blaming the previous Minister at all; I\u2019m just saying, though, that we\u2019ve got a chance to, again, save rail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223e08a147785045bb9d9fdd77e22be4cb\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014RMA Reform\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7f01b63cea84f5a8d15051ac03fca12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7f01b63cea84f5a8d15051ac03fca12\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister responsible for RMA Reform: Why is the Government progressing the Fast-track Approvals Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca2d921a247b41ac9d47eb715483c5d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca2d921a247b41ac9d47eb715483c5d5\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E Well\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022365b44c61a304caeb202b652168ef51b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hold on. Wait. Wait. Surely the barracking could at least wait until the Minister says something. I would suggest that it\u2019s held off for the entire duration of this question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b7d769b1cc24e5ea1638b565245f166\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Well, he needs to hurry up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fd46f6ef65e46c2b21714bd95dc7b61\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Beg your pardon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022479f949c50fb4d1bb5c84f05e287151b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: He needs to hurry up. We haven\u2019t got all day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b17a51d1263d417db0c96ebdc8fb5e66\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think that it would be a good idea for MPs to have a time clock put on them. It would be very embarrassing for some. The Hon Chris Bishop\u2014in your own time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220716e2ca50f24389b5a1520a1fc5aa39\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the question: because we are a Government focused relentlessly on economic growth. For too long, Governments have accepted our slow-growth status quo, cemented in the ways of the past, unwilling to make the critical trade-offs between the things we need for growth and the impacts those things inevitably have. We are not satisfied with slow, anaemic growth. That is why we are progressing the Fast-track Approvals Bill to help rebuild this economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aba25355f980468ea9b374c3003ebe92\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: What benefits does he expect New Zealanders to see as a result of this bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b71d49f3ade4e75aa216bd181ec29ca\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there are enormous public benefits to New Zealanders from these regionally and nationally significant projects. The projects listed in the bill, in the schedule agreed in the committee of the whole House earlier this morning, enable 55,000 houses; 143,000 tonnes of aquaculture and farming projects; 180 kilometres of new road, rail, and public transport; 3 gigawatts of additional renewable energy generation; and a significant boost to our resources sector. These projects will help rebuild and grow our economy after years of mismanagement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca311a3c354b4d5e8284a5675f964e90\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: What benefit will those 55,000 homes have?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1614a730bf04c74a87e70558417d882\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, this Government has inherited a housing crisis, which has been driven by unnecessary planning barriers in place of new housing developments. Report after report has said that our planning system is at the heart of our housing affordability challenge. Our Going for Housing Growth plan will help, so will fast track and making sure that private developers\u2014because the vast bulk of housing in New Zealand is built by the private sector\u2014can get out there and build houses that they want to build and that New Zealanders want to live in. And fast track is about removing those red-tape and green-tape barriers that get in the way of houses New Zealanders need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f2bf5bd33be45c592a6df784dfa2f7b\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: What does he say to those who are concerned about fast track?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa049119f68448b2a267a2823dcbc14b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I say to those that are concerned that we can protect the environment and grow our economy at the same time. If we want to end our housing crisis, support fast track. If you want more jobs in our cities and our regions, support fast track. If you want more renewable energy, support fast track. If you want modern roads, rail, and public transport, support fast track. If you want a growing economy, fast track is where it\u2019s at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226493eb6c7f324b10afed3763fd4b342d\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Given his reference to the protection of key features of the environment, can he confirm that frogs will be relocated and will continue to live on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4ab15b69fad49928a675dab2319f84f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. That might be an interesting proposition, but it\u2019s not something he can be responsible for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229aead87312be484b9f6187ae84a56733\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022936ac93092904b4aaa26435dda164a03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022936ac93092904b4aaa26435dda164a03\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: E tautoko ana ia i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero me ng\u0101 mahi katoa a t\u014Dna K\u0101wanatanga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E[Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u00228bf25d6264c4442c83ab15a9e5e9079d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228bf25d6264c4442c83ab15a9e5e9079d\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261431990470743368acc323418f0a0c8\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Would he and his Cabinet have signed off on all 149 projects to be included in the Fast-track Approvals Bill if he had been aware of the ongoing environmental breaches from some of those companies, detailed as recently as this morning in an RNZ article titled \u201CSecond audit finds more consent breaches by OceanaGold\u2019s Otago Macraes mine\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022664297d082b14e1b9b3eec2d50ad1df0\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m very excited about fast track, for the reason that the Minister for Infrastructure just outlined. We need to grow our way out of a recession caused by the Labour-Greens Government, and one of the ways we do that is we get modern, reliable infrastructure in this country. We\u2019ve got to build things faster and at lower cost and quicker, and fast track\u2019s cracking through the system, it\u2019s breaking the system to get things done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224220aede04a348d4b38d2a1a8807ec65\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Would he and his Cabinet have signed off on all 149 projects to progress through the Fast-track Approvals Bill if they had known about the founder of a company associated with one of those fast-track projects having been previously investigated by the Serious Fraud Office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e216a6dd0a64779afe93be2fb10df66\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m not going to comment on individual projects, but what I will comment on is the excitement that we could have 55,000 new homes; the excitement that we could have 180 kilometres of new roads in this country, which would be brilliant; 30 percent growth in renewable electricity generation. They\u2019re all good things, designed to get our regional and national economy growing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de0a7f2d3b284b5d8603f1cc03508f8a\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister comfortable with continuing to progress the Fast-track Approvals Bill through the committee stage, despite advice from the Clerk that his Government\u2019s Amendment Paper could be in the nature of private legislation and the subsequent ruling that stated, \u201CIt is undesirable, in principle, for Parliament to make law that is only for the benefit of specific private persons.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e4d7c195cd44a2bb42c01b9b2d5f4f1\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Again, that\u2019s a matter for the Speaker, but I\u2019m very proud that fast track is moving through the House exactly as it should, and that\u2019s incredibly exciting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c25f96e14d3b4433b66818f65da74ed6\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Climate Change\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00225e8ddf3797ab4dcfbb7d7f0dd38a900b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e8ddf3797ab4dcfbb7d7f0dd38a900b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Climate Change: What proportion of total emissions cuts projected between the period 2026-35 are attributed to unproven or disproven technologies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee56e1f9c3ba447493bea46114eed34f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee56e1f9c3ba447493bea46114eed34f\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Climate Change):\u003C/span\u003E In answer to the question: none. Experts in the Ministry for the Environment completed the modelling for the Government\u2019s second emissions reductions plan (ERP). They worked closely with technical experts across the Government and private sector to ensure that all projections were justified and reasonable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200f3a0e6d72041bba855b578429af454\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: How can he have confidence in carbon capture and storage achieving the 100 percent capture and storage of emissions from the Kapuni gas field that is assumed in his plan\u2019s modelling, given globally not a single carbon capture and storage project has ever reached its target carbon dioxide capture rate, and no existing project has consistently captured more than 80 percent of carbon, and real-world capture rates range from 10 to 72 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3116873b68944388cf1225aebb8691c\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what is interesting is that internationally, countries like Norway are already storing carbon dioxide and have been doing so for several decades, and we understand from industry that this process is feasible here in New Zealand. This is credible as carbon dioxide is already removed as part of the existing production process, leaving the natural gas remaining. Our officials have been and taken a conservative approach to modelling the expected removals. Carbon capture, utilisation, and storage is real and happening all over the world today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfe78a9053fb460ea908f80d6efe28d4\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: What changes were made to baseline projections from the interim projections in the ERP 2 discussion documents to the final plan as a result of the New Zealand Steel deal achieving more emissions reductions faster than initially projected? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227075312e76ac43d19245befb44aa3a8c\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Officials have worked through the modelling and taken into account all of the changes that were made in regards to different aspects of the economy. Our plan reflects the best estimate in terms of where those initiatives are at, and that includes all aspects across our broader economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273fe3656de024183b196eeee1051f9eb\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Why has his Government chosen to scrap proven emissions reduction strategies such as the Government Investment in Decarbonising Industry Fund, which produced the 1.8 megatonne increase in baseline projections, and instead rely on policies that are best described as speculative and unproven?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d0d169fea9a48baa22d2f78620874b0\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, unlike the grinches on the opposite side, this side of the House today is celebrating an emissions plan that puts us on track and on a pathway for net zero as early as 2044. That is a success and that demonstrates the confidence and capability on this side of the House to ensure that we are managing emissions reduction in this country while also protecting our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ca894e4120843469b27c4f0f6adc8b3\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Do New Zealand taxpayers, who may face liabilities of up to $24 billion if the Government fails to meet its international climate targets, deserve a plan that relies on more than just speculative technology advancements to cut more than half of the emissions projected in the plan he released today? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc6b10b9f36347beacc00eb803a88603\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I am proud that this Government today has reflected and published an ERP 2 plan that shows that we are on track for the first two emissions budgets and, most importantly, net zero by 2044 at the earliest. The technology that the member references that is unproven\u2014and this is an example of what that technology could look like, that will go into cows to reduce biogenic methane\u2014is happening under development in this country already by scientists and innovators, and we should back those individuals and we should back our agricultural sector and not always put them down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a614d7deb1c842f1871feb7e5b29405e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Todd McClay, who says the Government won\u2019t buy overseas carbon credits to meet emissions targets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b82592a7d6c84861a2b33771299bc44f\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: I always will acknowledge and reflect the positions of the very wise Todd McClay. It is clear that we need to ensure that we are on track in terms of all of our targets, and we will be looking at the international components very soon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002230108a85501f46c4bd92a8624c517354\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9d46add825c44dcaa42c44c8c19b715\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9d46add825c44dcaa42c44c8c19b715\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u002242028bc5d6eb4d3aaf6cca3b7784aad8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242028bc5d6eb4d3aaf6cca3b7784aad8\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0a190d7d60a4e8bbd57bd0b115ccea6\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister stand by his comments that Crown-M\u0101ori relationships are \u201Cprobably worse\u201D than they were a year ago?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdec96e79336484d8b3fd85f5a6bfef7\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said, I think the discussion around the Treaty principles bill\u2014there are strong feelings on all sides of that topic. I\u2019d also say that the previous administration built a lot of division and a lot of frustration across New Zealand with some of its actions that it didn\u2019t make the public case for and didn\u2019t take the public on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f8b411440cb4bca9279668bddd55855\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: What role does he think he has played in making the relationship\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e37861007f44fb6a81e1d6f9887ecf1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I\u2019ll tell you what: all commentary will stop when a question is being asked. Afford the member that respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b98aec5dda24fea96624abde108f5c5\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: What role does he think he has played in making the relationship worse?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cce321ecee24728a60ba4fe569b050d\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, again, as I\u2019ve explained before, we have a difference of opinion within the coalition Government about this issue. Neither party got what they wanted but, in an MMP environment, we found a very sensible compromise and we\u2019re working our way through it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be089fa8559b42cca58897550c52bdcf\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Prime Minister still using the coalition agreement as an excuse for the division the Treaty principles bill has caused when it wasn\u2019t even a bottom line for the ACT Party?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b3fe25af61c4cf8b07b7ec508df651a\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re in an MMP environment\u2014and a modern, mature MMP environment\u2014and we make space for all the parties in our coalition Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022490a00b0acfe47d7ad5311995541f489\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Given he has accepted the International Court of Justice ruling to issue an arrest warrant on the Israel Prime Minister, when, if ever, will the Prime Minister support sanctions on Israel?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6f4129f485c4614a198173ad21aaacc\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we have been very clear about sanctions\u2014travel sanctions, travel bans on extremist settlers in the occupied territories. That\u2019s been a longstanding position and we\u2019ve continued, through the course of this year, to ratchet that up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255f78e5f0ef44a17882d0021e74d12d4\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, please, Mr Speaker. The question was specific: when, if ever, will the Prime Minister support sanction on Israel? Not settlers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f11aa0340255463399c982ad6322a052\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think he just answered by saying that there have been progressive sanctions throughout the year. I don\u2019t think he can be more specific than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022777600b3cb8e438baf57f3159d9f3add\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Prime Minister doing to stop the illegal occupation of Gaza?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a7154402a5f43bfb195cba8f7374947\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: We have been consistent in our position, and I\u2019m actually very proud of the centrist line that we\u2019ve taken, given the strong feeling on all sides of this debate. I think you\u2019ve seen us come out with joint statements with the Prime Ministers of Canada and Australia articulating our position, and we have called both parties to account. We want to see both sides come together, get round the table, have a proper ceasefire, and most fully develop a two-State solution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224615eac404874f2ba1de2dc3d9bb5fed\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc02f1bbbecc4cda9b4b22b602be6ce1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc02f1bbbecc4cda9b4b22b602be6ce1\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Justice: How is the Government proposing to strengthen the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf803d1f780448bc88902aea13e34dfb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf803d1f780448bc88902aea13e34dfb\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E This week, I intend to table an Amendment Paper to the House to strengthen the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill. The amendment ensures that strikes recorded under the original three-strikes regime repealed by the previous Labour Government are carried over into the new regime. Offenders who have committed repeat sexual and violent crimes should not escape accountability for their previous actions. This change reflects our Government\u2019s commitment to public safety by ensuring that repeat serious offenders are kept off our streets and out of our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d9d3ac722184620a42ca4696d7322c1\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: What support has the Minister received for this amendment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb1529761fa547fba1503ef1c14fe83d\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: Submitters feared that without this change, offenders who had already received warnings under the previous regime would not face consequences under the new regime until they reoffended and received a new warning. To address these concerns, I will table amendments at the committee of the whole House stage to ensure that consistent strikes are carried through into the new regime, holding repeat offenders accountable and protecting communities from their offending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218bf33338668455f8837ae50036c20b8\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Minister ensuring that strikes carried over from the previous regime remain consistent with the new regime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb43b89661444afb89084d80335d010a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: While the Justice Committee supported the reactivation of strikes from the previous regime, it also recommended that only warnings consistent with the new qualifying sentence thresholds be reactivated, and I agree with this approach and have amended the bill to clarify that strikes issued under the old regime will only be carried across if they meet the qualifying criteria of the new regime. This ensures fairness and consistency while upholding the objective of the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227574f679ec464472866a70064b71fb9b\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: How is the reinstatement of the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill with these changes likely to impact on prison population?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239e946ace8f54b3d8a0534a9c7be8c7e\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s estimated that the prison population will increase by 130, to 210 prisoners over the next 10 years due to the reinstatement of the three-strikes regime. We make no apologies for locking away the worst offenders for longer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022818b942c60ba448c8f1ab8a56dc46268\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Given the desire of the Government to reduce the number of victims of serious crime in this country, does she agree with the basic principle that a good place to start is with those who are serious repeat offenders who have created many victims already, and that is the fundamental purpose of the three-strikes legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229118f89fba8443cba53367f632d816f8\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. It is important that this Government sticks to its commitment of looking after the victims of crime. When we look at the M\u0101ori population specifically, nearly two-thirds of them are reported to be victims of crime. And it is them that we will also be supporting with the introduction of this new regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b9bb729436e9448e917b2985ec29198f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Agriculture\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4385c824ae34ed5a1ce4f6a3a6c707a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4385c824ae34ed5a1ce4f6a3a6c707a\u0022\u003ESUZE REDMAYNE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Agriculture: What actions has the Government taken to protect highly productive food-producing land in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u00223ddb1d04bd1a4a2e8f2a45ef822e6890\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ddb1d04bd1a4a2e8f2a45ef822e6890\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E Last week in Southland, the Prime Minister and I announced the Government will set clear rules to limit farm-to-forest conversions from entering the emissions trading scheme (ETS). These changes deliver on a key Government commitment to protect food production for farmers while providing ETS certainty for foresters. They also address the previous Government\u2019s failed ETS policies that incentivised large-scale conversions, created ETS complexity, and undermined our world-best primary producers. [Interruption from gallery]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022552f8d6b974c46d588fc6d47a2d8cf7c\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Kia kaha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9ddea08948b43dd801c3abf6f302731\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Last week\u2019s announcements will help safeguard New Zealand\u2019s most productive farmland, while allowing\u2014[Interruption from gallery]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022395f654329fe4f92aee3c998944c657c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Minister\u2014the Minister will stop. [Interruption from gallery stopped] That outburst is going to cause some other discussion and probably a ruling from me next time the House formally sits. The Hon Todd McClay will\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022479c2a3469704cd1a5e260cc17aecf5b\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I hesitate again, but I notice that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ec48935868b44aabc227e2fa6923731\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Speak up, then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9f264caa2134608bd860de6ca9474b6\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: A member of the House was yelling \u201CKia kaha!\u201D at those strangers making the disturbance. To encourage and actually to speak to the gallery is in breach of the Standing Orders generally. But to actually encourage that sort of undermining of the House, I would argue, is another breach of privilege.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022989fc8b7452040cb8e5202281f4ffef2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Then the member knows that he should write to me if that\u2019s his broader concern. I didn\u2019t see it or hear it\u2014I was watching what was happening in the gallery. The question can be asked again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022226f1cdf17554cceb9dbd0eddeae28a2\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: What actions has the Government taken to protect highly productive food-producing land in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c16148086ba4c7f942609b4d00f08be\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Last week in Southland, the Prime Minister and I announced the Government will set clear rules to limit farm-to-forest conversions entering into the emissions trading scheme. These changes deliver on a key Government commitment to protect food production for farmers while providing ETS certainty for foresters. They also address the previous Government\u2019s failed ETS policies that incentivised\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022875e44abf978481999ae578182587268\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. In this instance, I have the benefit of hearing that answer the first time around, and I had hoped that they would stop after that first part, which is fine. This is a question by their own side, and it is inappropriate for Government Ministers to state as if it\u2019s fact a point of debate or a point of opinion about the previous Government\u2019s record. What the Minister said the first\u00A0time around and was about to say then is incorrect and is very much a debatable point, and\u00A0they shouldn\u2019t be allowed to just state that\u2014which is clearly a political point\u2014as if it\u2019s\u00A0fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e72827df45841428ea98d183f675545\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is true. My apologies. I was actually still thinking about the incident that took place, and not fully paying attention. But I will just say to the Minister: confine his remarks to efforts of the Government, not criticism of previous administrations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228958ee5a1bc74dd899892387ebb8d96e\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Thank you, Mr Speaker. They also address the previous Government\u2019s policies that incentivised large-scale conversions, creating ETS complexity and undermined\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b95416db59874980a17a68aca0ba582d\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s just not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022280280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022126e7b03f91947f6935f070eb7d6591f\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014our world-best primary producers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bd1552fc2404f2a8a6afbd2a29393a9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on, just a minute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022280280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201ecf93dc25b4e4ba57a895454ad187d\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Last week\u2019s announcements\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afe2547e8f1f4c3eaec9cab0a9fce967\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, stop. What is the problem? Stand up and speak about it, because I can\u2019t hear what\u2019s actually a problem with that. It\u2019s not unreasonable for a Minister to talk about something that a previous Government did. It is unreasonable to attack a previous Government or an Opposition for their time in a previous Government. He\u2019s not doing that; he\u2019s talking about somebody else making a comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5ece840d54a491f91b8e6f13bf24d3d\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Speaker, in fairness, I raised a point of order. That was dealt with. Now I\u2019m responding to what he\u2019s saying. If I had an issue with what he was saying, I would have raised another point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4410d38c7d444c1932ff16345b60d1c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Sorry, it\u2019s just you were saying so much over here, perhaps I was a bit confused as to who I should be listening to! Make the rest of the answer brief.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022735d85cb8b104efda4406ff16314971f\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Last week\u2019s announcement will help safeguard New Zealand\u2019s most productive farmland while allowing space for sustainable forestry growth and ensuring landlords retain the ability to make informed, smart land-use decisions that enhance both profitability and sustainable outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7789b7b5ca04d078c11a75ad5b32588\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: What policy measures did the Government announce to protect food production in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c546663cc72d4611bc34b24e7b7e0658\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Government announced several clarifying changes to limit farm-to-forest conversion from entering the ETS. These include a moratorium on exotic forest registration for land-use classification (LUC) one through five farmland that\u2019s actively farmed; an annual registration cap of 15,000 hectares of exotic forest registering on land six farmland; the ability of farmers to plant up to 25 percent of LUC one through five land in forestry while maintaining flexibility and choice; property-level LUC reassessments for land categorising ensuring accuracy and fairness; exemptions for certain M\u0101ori-owned land categories to honour Treaty obligations while ensuring pathways for economic development; and also transitional exemptions for landowners with intention to plant trees prior to 4 December 2024. These changes strike the right balance between protecting productive farmland and ensuring sustainable forestry development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223410313e8d94c6f918e462841d5f7a6\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Government decide to make these changes to farm-to-forest emissions trading scheme rules?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246b436108f15432280dd15009f7245bb\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I said in answer to the primary question, the previous Government\u2019s ETS policies incentivised large-scale land conversions and they created ETS complexity, which was one of the reasons why the carbon auction failed so many times before the last election. They also led to undermining world-best primary producers. These new rules address these significant challenges. They provide much-needed certainty for ETS participants, enabling farmers, foresters, and investors to plan ahead with confidence. At the same time, these changes preserve New Zealand\u2019s ability to produce high-quality, safe, sustainable food that is demanded globally whilst protecting the rural economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd96eed5b9314fe6aee6c7fdc7b62c60\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: What additional measures has the Government announced to improve farm and rural productivity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221099a51b3b54438ca2c09e928d164499\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, last week, I announced, with the full support of hard-working local MPs Katie Nimon and Catherine Wedd, that the Government is co-investing $995,000 to expand the Land for Life pilot project in the Hawke\u2019s Bay. This programme helps farmers and growers plant trees on low-quality farmland so they can adapt to changing conditions, prevent erosion, and generate additional income through carbon credits and timber on low-quality farmland. We estimate that this will benefit $380\u00A0million in cumulative economic gains for participating farmers over 30 years, and $1.5\u00A0billion in avoided cost from reduced landslides. This is just another way the Government supports our rural sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dd6cddd926ec47b3ad0a96914da3ced8\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014M\u0101ori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2bc7b1e14924ce2874c59de8b6136f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2bc7b1e14924ce2874c59de8b6136f2\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for M\u0101ori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti: Does he stand by his statements regarding the M\u0101ori-Crown relationship?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb1de227c38b495b81b568de842c610a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb1de227c38b495b81b568de842c610a\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister for M\u0101ori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and this Government is committed to outcomes, not outbursts over M\u0101ori-Crown relations. There are many people out there that don\u2019t like the fact that we support over 20 M\u0101ori-led or partnered projects through the fast-track process, that we have recently offered, through Minister \u201CMetek\u014Dura\u201D, the Kororipo P\u0101 to Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia on behalf of Ng\u0101puhi, or that Matua Tarar\u0101, Minister Jones, has offered support to Waitangi, Parihaka, and R\u0101tana through the Regional Infrastructure Fund. But we\u2019re into action, not acting up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022626840a20f7641b9bd1a41d82439da65\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Who is correct: Tama Potaka, who said in response to my oral question on 7 November that the M\u0101ori-Crown relationship had been strengthened under this Government, or the Prime Minister, who said that the relationship was probably worse under this Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa30e51ed5b145f39a223c77aa42b784\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister is correct, and I am also correct. We can have things at a low ebb but continue to strengthen M\u0101ori-Crown relations. It\u2019s in this vein that I turn to Minister M\u0101tauranga, Minister Stanford, with her great M\u0101ori Education Action Plan, and the work that my erudite colleague Minister Watts is doing with the Pou Take \u0100huararangi or the climate change pou or the national Iwi Chairs Forum to ensure adaptation of many, many marae to climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2d8d2363c954ecfb245bf29a1125e1b\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022255b702a24e7417a87713320f8b13ee0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, just wait for a moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d4bed2ac3a34efa9d5d4f6be4bffce2\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. What specific bill, if any, has he introduced in his capacity as M\u0101ori-Crown relations Minister that has strengthened the M\u0101ori-Crown relationship?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229644b46766544c13ba4ff3b6bc6dbcaf\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: I continue to support and lead the ongoing progress of the \u014C-R\u0101kau bill, which was fomented as a result of Prime Minister John Key and Minister Christopher Finlayson to ensure that that particular piece of property\u2014whenua\u2014is returned to the three iwi around that: Maniapoto, Raukawa, and Waikato.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d82d5354f6c1484b8477f15d1f2a94cf\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Ng\u0101ti Toa chair Helmut Modlik, who said that he found the Minister\u2019s response to be \u201Cso dishonest that he couldn\u2019t sit there and listen to that a moment longer\u201D, and, if so, does he think this is the reason why the Government has been uninvited from any future iwi chairs meetings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc3b8b9e2372417291d23b830ab696ce\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just correct the honourable member\u2019s comments: Helmut Modlik is actually the CEO of Ng\u0101ti Toa Rangatira and not the chair of Ng\u0101ti Toa Rangatira\u2014fact-check. The second thing is that Ng\u0101ti Toa CEO Helmut Modlik returned to the Whare the week after that particular comment and was very supportive and enthusiastic about my responses in relation to a number of questions that were of a very similar nature.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba8126a179c94f61a0f8ecd8a555ed68\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that a key strand of M\u0101ori-Crown relations is economic empowerment, and with the passage of legislation extending marine farming permits until 2050, that that represents certainty and confidence for the large M\u0101ori presence in that particular industry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228edaeee26d814446b4127230786832c0\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely. And I can also acknowledge the significant efforts around M\u0101ori businesses who are exporting serious levels of kai moana to international markets. And we will continue to support it through aquaculture and other efforts in the primary industry, especially with the good work of Minister McClay ensuring that the appropriate international deals are curated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b52586b28aa9452f897947fb17382e6f\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: What risks have Te Arawhiti officials outlined\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235726ed2c85947fd957a00c8a96fac36\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on\u2014sorry. How long is this going to go on for? The rules are pretty simple: if someone is asking a question, no one else speaks\u2014basic respect for other members. The Hon Peeni Henare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225527bc740cac495a82bd5d3003d7e5b1\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. What risks have Te Arawhiti officials outlined regarding Ministers attending Waitangi 2025?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e1d5f88085e43cba13bedcc1ae0c662\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: A number of officials, as well as iwi leaders and others, have outlined various risks but also the enormous upsides of the continued engagement between the Ministers of the Crown, the Cabinet, and other members of this Government attending various events in the M\u0101ori calendar\u2014but also ensuring that we are absolutely focused on delivering on the needs of M\u0101ori, rather than various acting up and outbursts that we often\u00A0see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232a0e2df50404258a2d1594932f7082b\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Will he recommend to the Prime Minister to immediately stop the Treaty principles bill from progressing any further to prevent a future hate tour?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022661b2c2f9bd0456aba8bff2611189701\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me, e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, I just didn\u2019t hear the last phrase that was mentioned. I just ask if that question can be asked again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253820909813a49e8b4a444c286cfbe27\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just repeat the whole question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7c5ca7f0c2d46439d2a4cce0f7701e4\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Will he recommend to the Prime Minister to immediately stop the Treaty principles bill from progressing any further to prevent further division in this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3a7752271ab4687b86e2fa02cc8cedc\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Kei te tautoko au i t\u0101 te Pir\u012Bmia i whakatau ai. K\u0101ore t\u0113nei r\u014Dp\u016B, te p\u0101ti kahurangi, i te tautoko i te anga whakamua o te Pire M\u0101t\u0101pono Tiriti ki tua o te komiti arotake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E[I support the decision made by the Prime Minister. This party, the blue party, does not support the progression of the Treaty principles bill beyond select committee.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226f24babe02e447c9abe708e5a7705103\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Conservation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba1ee6fc3f414175a89571d5baafa7ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba1ee6fc3f414175a89571d5baafa7ff\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Conservation: What recent announcements has he made about Mautohe Cathedral Cove?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u00229ab8a694a2f14f9cb9c3e9e5bea02e0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ab8a694a2f14f9cb9c3e9e5bea02e0c\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E On 1 December 2024, I attended and announced the restoration of public walking access to Mautohe Cathedral Cove in time for the summer tourist season. Mautohe Cathedral Cove plays an important role in supporting the local economy in the grand electorate of Coromandel. And this reopening is an exciting step in the region\u2019s tourism recovery following storms and COVID-19 lockdowns. Manuhiri to the area are predicted to bring an estimated $12 million into the region annually. I\u2019ve committed to Ng\u0101ti Hei and community leaders to ensure this first stage was delivered in time for the high numbers expected this tourist season. I want to thank everyone\u2014Te Papa Atawhai, other officials, those that worked on it, contractors\u2014for delivering on this commitment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200a50da76957455e889cc24c23dfb09e\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: How important are these kinds of attractions for regional economies like the Coromandel, including tourism and employment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9377b3fb7f74a45a13046f6ad513fbc\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: As I regularly am reminded by the member for the Coromandel, it\u2019s very evident at Mautohe Cathedral Cove. In the Punangairi visitors centre I recently opened at Paparoa National Park, significant numbers of international manuhiri come to see our spectacular coastal views, unique flora and fauna, and learn about tangata whenua relationships and responsibilities. Adverse weather events are increasingly impacting the safe operations of these kinds of attractions. The Department of Conservation (DOC), Te Papa Atawhai, is considering the second stage of development at Mautohe, which is intended to provide more resilient access to better withstand some of these ongoing issues. These are the challenges that we have to deal with at DOC while simultaneously applying its finite resources to protecting biodiversity, heritage landscapes, and other matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf067622af6f4957aa2b0554d2d31585\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Department of Conservation going to meet these kinds of challenges for areas like the Coromandel in the future to ensure that we can continue to enjoy the beauty and richness of our landscapes and creatures?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022095539f1f284467fa7e8b10252417e49\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that p\u0101tai. We are now actively seeking\u2014through consultation, hui, and submissions\u2014public views on options for modernising conservation management. This includes simplifying conservation rules, ensuring that processes are fit for purpose so businesses and others can more easily ensure quality experience, maximising benefits from commercial and recreational activities on conservation land to support nature and local communities, and increasing flexibility for land exchanges or disposals that align with conservation and community and other needs. And I\u2019m encouraging everyone to have their say and to submit by the end of February 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221efa6b0be9f74c76b223e28cf4178779\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225edb74dd0f8f4beb8be3ee2251cb3e10\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Ruling\u2014Admissibility of Minister\u2019s Amendments, Criteria\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022df6ef4873e944c29b310b4b2fa006aeb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df6ef4873e944c29b310b4b2fa006aeb\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I waited until the end of the last question to raise this point of order. We didn\u2019t get an opportunity to do so last night; you were on your feet when you put the House back into committee. The ruling that you gave warrants some clarification. I acknowledge that there was considerable thought put into that, and it was quite extensive. However, Speakers\u2019 decisions are guided by previous rulings and established practices, and it is noteworthy that there was no reference to Speakers\u2019 rulings at all throughout your ruling. To aid our understanding and that of the House, could you please explain what precedent you looked at and relied on to land on the ruling you did?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002277f4594891a64a15b01381cb2e69208e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277f4594891a64a15b01381cb2e69208e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think your first assumption that all Speakers\u2019 rulings rely on previous Speakers\u2019 rulings belies the fact that, in fact, Speakers\u2019 rulings are Speakers\u2019 rulings\u2014and that\u2019s exactly what was given last night. I looked, over a period of days, at the extensive list of projects, which was well known by people. I heard the advice, obviously, from the clerks and spent some time looking through the book that talks about parliamentary practice in New Zealand. That\u2019s a book that draws on a previous publication by a previous Clerk, and has been updated by our current Clerk. In that, there\u2019s an interesting statement that\u2014sorry, I can\u2019t call to mind exactly the page and paragraph number. It essentially says that there will always be some degree of private gain or benefit from Government bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI think when you start looking through other aspects that were looked at, of which, of course, one was: is the amendment proposed in scope? There\u2019s another page in there that lists about, I think, in the order of about maybe eight to 10 different points that an amendment must comply with. The amendment complied with all of those, in my opinion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe next point which was relevant was the three tests that have to be applied for a bill to be considered a private bill as opposed to a Government bill. I made it very clear that I thought it failed on the third part of that test. Now, I\u2019m sorry I don\u2019t have references for you because there are some that I can point to, and I\u2019m happy to bring that back to the House at some point or to give to you personally if you want them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa08705d3da04a87bfa9f1fff71f010e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa08705d3da04a87bfa9f1fff71f010e\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thank you very much for that. I didn\u2019t make an assumption, sir. The opening line of my point of order was actually from McGee, the book that you\u2019ve referred to yourself, page 92: \u201CThe Speaker\u2019s decisions are guided by previous rulings and established practices\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e354fc9f28a4024b7a3b57c0f80e38b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What did they do on day one? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d2f62a4b6b045b5ab34a310c9bddc2b\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I don\u2019t know what they were up to 100 years ago in Westminster\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222530e0bee86043608e32dbc7cf093b87\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, well that\u2019s the point\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022331f704dfc9a4fcab81f1508240f9f1b\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: And neither do you\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00224dffc7a74a274db898e9880088b045b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224dffc7a74a274db898e9880088b045b9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, let me speak. A hundred years ago\u2014or more, in fact\u2014private bills were brought in because of gaps in legislation. One of the original reasons for it, you\u2019ll find in Wilson, which is the latest tome that we tend to refer to; it talks about a person wanting a divorce, for example, would need to petition Parliament to have an Act of Parliament passed for their private benefit. Now, I think we\u2019ve gone a long way from that. The other thing is that if you look at the recent bills that have been passed that are of a private nature, there is a very specific benefit for any of the individuals who are seeking that preferment. I think this is just another step in Parliament itself claiming its right to legislate, which I think is important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022324e61238d304989acdedea3f1e61ae7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022324e61238d304989acdedea3f1e61ae7\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. I had an opportunity to review your ruling in writing this afternoon, which is always helpful. Your ruling, particularly with regard to the third test that you set out there, is problematic in the sense that if you applied\u2014so, in the third test, you seem to be relying on the fact that there is no guaranteed conferred benefit from truncating the process. The people who are listed in the schedule go through a faster process, but the outcome of that is not guaranteed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI thought about how, if that was to apply to other legislation that might come before the House, that could be very problematic, because I don\u2019t think that is the way the Parliament could continue to interpret such an approach. For example, if the Government was dealing with legislation regarding crimes, and made the decision that a new criminal process would apply to categories of offender, and then a Minister was to table an amendment that said, \u201Cexcept for these specific cases\u201D, it would be allowed; therefore, those specific cases would go to a different process\u2014go, say, immediately to the Supreme Court. Under the ruling that you\u2019ve made, that would be allowable because the outcome is not guaranteed. It\u2019s short-circuiting the process for a particular group of named offenders, whilst the other category of people would all have to go through the regular process. That\u2019s somewhat of an alarming concept for this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI actually think you\u2019ve applied\u2014this bill deals with economic interests, but there are other private interests the House deals with, including issues around liberty and rights. If you applied that\u2014exactly the same ruling that you have made\u2014to a question before the House of liberty and rights, you\u2019re saying that the House can specify in a public bill, in a Government bill, that particular people could have a different set of rights in terms of the process of the law that may apply to them. I think that would be very problematic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002260963960a72c4c2fa035af4fb67e852f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260963960a72c4c2fa035af4fb67e852f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s a view that I\u2019d like to think further on. I did think about that. I would say, for example, electoral law carves people out already in general legislation. A lot of alcohol-related law carves people out. There are different classes of criminal offence in almost every bill that\u2019s related to the fight the Parliament works against crime. It\u2019s not unusual to have people carved out. The issue in this case was in that schedule, if a company or an entity that is not a public entity is getting the opportunity ahead of someone else to go through the short-track process, what is the extent to the private benefit? The question then becomes: what is the public benefit in the activity that they\u2019re asking to be engaged in? I think, on that balance, I made the call that the list was acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022401fd77fed5049f8b71400d67df4b3b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022401fd77fed5049f8b71400d67df4b3b7\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, I think your comments there highlight the problem. The examples that you\u2019ve just given are examples of where Parliament has treated classes of people or organisations differently\u2014perfectly acceptable for the Parliament to do that in a public bill. It\u2019s where specifically named individual people or entities are being treated differently that it becomes a question of whether or not it is a private bill. It is perfectly acceptable in criminal legislation to treat classes of people differently in terms of the nature of their offending or so on, but then to say that these named individuals would be treated differently, that would be very, very problematic for the Parliament to adopt a process that allowed that to happen. Having looked carefully at the ruling that you made last night, if you applied that same ruling to criminal law, you could end up with exactly the same conclusion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5e4bc341a234c55a92eb2d5360577df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5e4bc341a234c55a92eb2d5360577df\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the point of order. I\u2019m not sure what else is to be gained from going through this, because you\u2019ve made a ruling, but the only comment I would make is that Parliament has already considered a bill like this. It was called the COVID-19 Recovery (Fast-track Consenting) Act 2020\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d94ae9c812674f62a39e7476c976b7fa\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222624b7f9b5ee4d429fc5b623582f463c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s not, and that\u2019s the point: it lists specific projects, including private projects. That bill was acceptable three years ago. I accept that the current version of fast track is wider in scope, it has more projects, and it\u2019s a one-stop shop, but that\u2019s not relevant to the issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228223b6ce62994ede9c01f1e7e3922e6a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c54933747d0408f821e1773250d838c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s not, because Parliament, it is a matter\u2014well, you\u2019ve got to the Government\u2019s preferred outcome with a different form of reasoning. The Government\u2019s reasoning is that it is a matter of public policy that the Government can expedite projects. Our view is that privately owned developments can have public benefits. We spent four hours this morning litigating the fact that Meridian Energy could build a publicly owned\u2014in the sense that the Government owns 51\u00A0percent of Meridian\u2014wind farm that would be the exact same as a privately funded and owned wind farm by Contact Energy, but both have public benefits. That\u2019s our view. I don\u2019t want to relitigate that. The only point I\u2019d make is that you\u2019ve made a ruling; you should get on with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00224b07da071ed442bc83c035eadfa1a74d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b07da071ed442bc83c035eadfa1a74d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just suggest, I do hope you were referring to my reaching a position that the Government wanted was in terms of all Governments, as opposed to my being particularly persuaded by the current Government. I\u2019m not unmoved in my decision by a consent that was granted under the COVID legislation for a project that exists in the electorate that I previously represented. That has been incredibly problematic and is entirely a private project. For those who argued that my ruling is wrong and wanted precedence, then that would be one that I would certainly quote to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022924effcdcb2e4e7bba1a721877bb1c5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022924effcdcb2e4e7bba1a721877bb1c5f\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. I think the intervention by Chris Bishop actually raises serious concerns. Chris Bishop\u2019s suggestion that you have reached a conclusion that is the Government\u2019s preferred position actually undermines your independence, and certainly\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f1fc433b7f649fb9799cb584771c767\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: While a point of order is being taken, no one else will express an opinion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cefc27df6cc48619cc03033f705868a\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and certainly draws into question all members of Parliament\u2019s ability to have confidence in the ruling you made last night. The ruling you made last night began with a suggestion that the Government took a policy position and the Opposition took a procedural position. As the Speaker of the House of Representatives, it is very clear that your job is procedural, not policy. The Government\u2019s positions on policy should have no bearing on the decisions that you make as Speaker. The intervention that we just had from the Leader of the House suggests that it has\u2014that\u2019s wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad1f3ba7290044f7aabd6f4d9b408e8d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad1f3ba7290044f7aabd6f4d9b408e8d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It most certainly did not have bearing on my consideration. As I\u2019ve said, I\u2019ve spent quite some days looking at this particular issue and reaching my own conclusion on it. I can\u2019t help but be in some way influenced by previous experiences that I\u2019ve had, particularly with regards to Christchurch, where there was significant legislation that, in my opinion, prevented faster progress. I\u2019ve just given you the example of a project in the electorate that I formerly represented that is entirely a private benefit but was consented under the COVID legislation. I took that as being Parliament understanding that there are times when the intersection between public and private benefit might occur. The question in my head then was to what extent is the private benefit greater than the public interest in the project progressing? That\u2019s where we\u2019re going to leave the discussion. Thank you for the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002272319080ba064b26a74679cde14937c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272319080ba064b26a74679cde14937c2\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thank you. I don\u2019t intend to relitigate that, but given the House is limited in the processes available to it when it\u2019s under urgency, the normal way in which we would express this is not available to us. The only option we have available to us now is that we, regrettably, indicate that where you as Speaker had the full confidence of the House, that is no longer the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8086f5aac734d44b04355e05707d13d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8086f5aac734d44b04355e05707d13d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s all right. You\u2019ve got a mechanism to signal that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a83ff0a2b4014d55999562b887a20334\u0022\u003EAmended Answers to Oral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226e975ad90403420ca79fd5e61bf0f2b9\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9 to Minister, 21 November\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u00224dbd6259d4cc40c98c41b6bb36a130b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224dbd6259d4cc40c98c41b6bb36a130b2\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, I seek leave to make a personal explanation to correct an answer to an oral question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6e98179b1c049c09366e570e8d8049c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, can you speak closer to your microphone?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022892342e33098430c8bf5d57288e29579\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry; I seek leave to make a personal explanation to correct an answer to an oral question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7198514317d4bd8b1d3357a47b2e8bf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for a personal explanation to correct an answer. Is there any objections to that? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223adcc42ef5af4fa2afadf9263860c85a\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I\u2019d just like to make a correction to an answer for oral question No. 9 in the House on 21 November. I accidentally said that the eligible students will be provided assistance by the Ministry of Transport, but I meant to say the Ministry of Education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022803ac46f60ac473d8d91a6b36ec4c82c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022803ac46f60ac473d8d91a6b36ec4c82c\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. We are now at the end of question time. The Minister has been in the House for the entire duration of question time. Therefore, she must have known at the beginning of question time that she had needed to correct an answer. Why did she not do that at the first available opportunity, which was as soon as the House resumed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00224961a092e4a8460481d956bf8c04bdfd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224961a092e4a8460481d956bf8c04bdfd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, perhaps it could have been because I called the questions fairly quickly upon arriving, but that would normally be the course of action that should be taken. You can\u2019t turn back time, unfortunately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI declare the House in committee for consideration of the Fast-track Approvals Bill and the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022af073b0ca8cd4e38b892b8fc0f6bc470\u0022\u003EFast-track Approvals Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223a822ae41aa143f79c59984bab56adaf\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000680\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022da52633e24d64f09a3f7e262b091fe85\u0022\u003EPart 2  Fast-track approvals process (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002245809c34a43e493f846d4e2a1f965010\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245809c34a43e493f846d4e2a1f965010\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: We are in committee stage. I\u2019m just wondering, do we have a Minister? Thank you. Members, when the committee suspended at 1 p.m., we were debating Part 2 of the Fast-track Approvals Bill. Part 2 is the debate on Clauses 14 to 33, \u201CFast-track approvals process\u201D, and Schedules 3 and 4 to 13. The question is again that Part 2 stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u002221f070cdfb3b4334ba65b8eeedde580f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221f070cdfb3b4334ba65b8eeedde580f\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I am still on Part 2 and the clauses and have not yet reached any of the schedules. I want to start back on clause 24M, which is \u201CPanel invites comments on substantive application\u201D. We have Amendment Paper 142 in the name of the Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan and that is to add a number of groups to the list, so I\u2019ll explain what that means.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EClause 24M\u2014we were talking a lot before about referrals. Now, these are things that have either been referred or that are on that list of 149 things in Schedule 2. The comments must\u2014there\u2019s a \u201Cmust\u201D here\u2014be invited from local authorities, iwi authorities, and some others I\u2019ve already listed in other contributions. Also, at paragraph (f), the owners of the land to which the substantive application relates and the land adjacent to that land\u2014we\u2019ve had some discussions about having to be adjacent to the land previously\u2014occupiers of the lands, the Minister for the Environment and other relevant portfolio Ministers, relevant administrating agencies, and requiring authorities. That list is a very narrow list in terms of the size of these projects and who must be consulted, who must be invited for their comments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, we\u2019ve had some discussions about the COVID legislation, which was of course legislation in an emergency, and that legislation included a list of groups who were determined to be representative of some sort of both business, infrastructure, and environmental groups. This list is: Business New Zealand Inc.; Employers and Manufacturers Association\u2014more than \u201CIncorporated\u201D; Environmental Defence Society Inc.; Generation Zero Inc.; Greenpeace New Zealand Inc.; Infrastructure New Zealand Inc; the New Zealand\u00A0Fish \u0026amp; Game Council; the New Zealand Infrastructure Commission; Property Council; and Forest \u0026amp; Bird.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWhat this Amendment Paper 142 is suggesting is that, to make it more similar to the COVID legislation, which apparently this fast track is modelled on, those groups should be included at clause 24M. The result of including those groups at clause 24M would be that more people would have to be asked for comment on these very important, very large proposals, so it\u2019s part of the \u201Cmust\u201D, not the \u201Cmay\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EIf we look down and we look at the Minister responsible for RMA Reform\u2019s amendments to clause 24M, at subclause (l), it\u2019s any person or group specified by the Minister for Infrastructure under clause 23(3)(b)(iii). Clause 23(3), \u201CComments may be invited from any other person the panel considers appropriate.\u201D, but of course, that\u2019s a \u201Cmay\u201D, so it\u2019s not compulsory for the panel to talk to groups such as those that I\u2019ve listed. It\u2019s not compulsory for the panel to talk to the people like the wedding venue near the proposed goldmine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThe list that I just read out in Amendment Paper 142 is very restricted, because at the moment, if you were doing a big application for a goldmine, it would be a fully notified resource consent. It wouldn\u2019t be limited notified, which this group is like a limited notification. It would be a full public process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, we understand that this is supposed to be a fast process and one of the ways to speed things up is not to open it up to everybody, not to be a fully publicly notified process. I know many people will think that it should be publicly notified, so this Amendment Paper 142 with those suggested groups taken from the COVID legislation is a big compromise, and so I would hope that the Minister would consider accepting that amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022 data-id=\u002283b91adeb5574c04a083f1054754dc96\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283b91adeb5574c04a083f1054754dc96\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to get straight to picking up on a number of amendments in this contribution, and those are ones that cover Amendment Papers 155, 156, and 157. I want to pick up on those because this is about the referral applications and the information that is required under these applications.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EThe first part of my Amendment Paper 155 refers to clause 14, and this is in clause 14(3)(ba), where it currently talks about a description that is needed for the whole of the project area being detailed, and\u2014oh, sorry, it currently says that it doesn\u2019t have the detailed part. It talks about the project area, and what we\u2019re proposing in this amendment is to insert the word \u201Cdetailed\u201D at page 21, line 20. This is to ensure that a very clear, comprehensive description of the whole project area is included. Now, this is really important because later in the bill it\u2019s of serious implication for those landowners or individuals who are deemed to be affected or not by the impacts of the project, and it matters because some of the neighbouring properties will immediately be consulted and\u00A0what not, but others may not be. That\u2019s why the detail in this description actually really matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EThe second aspect of this\u2014and this is in Amendment Paper 156\u2014is that it\u2019s replacing \u201Cidentifies its boundaries in sufficient detail\u201D with \u201Cclearly and comprehensively identifies its boundaries and the project area\u201D. Now, again, this is about offering clarity. It\u2019s about offering clarity not only to the applicant in terms of who they need to then contact and consult with about the impacts of their proposed activity, but it also provides certainty and clarity for those impacted parties in the neighbouring areas, about whether they are considered affected or not, instead of simply being left wondering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EThe third aspect of what I\u2019m proposing\u2014which I\u2019d like the Minister responsible for RMA Reform\u2019s thoughts on\u2014is to do with clause 14(3)(e), and this is about, again, the information to be included in the referral application. Now, it currently talks about a description of the application only in a sufficient way that it outlines the anticipated and known adverse effects of the project on the environment. What we\u2019re suggesting here, which I\u2019d like the Minister\u2019s thoughts on, is to actually insert a requirement for a detailed ecological assessment. The reason we want to do that is because it is virtually impossible for an applicant to understand what the anticipated and known adverse effects of the project on the environment may be unless they actually are getting advice on this, and if that is not known in the first instance, I\u2019m unclear how the Minister for Infrastructure would then actually have an even very basic adequate amount of information to make a proper consideration as to whether they would refer the project on to the expert panel. I\u2019d really appreciate the Minister\u2019s thoughts on those three amendments. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022c98a877ab283468e90c4c48e1613b3fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c98a877ab283468e90c4c48e1613b3fc\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for those good questions, which I\u2019m happy to address, although perhaps not to her satisfaction. I\u2019m advised that maps will have to be of a sufficient level of detail, and some of this is a question about how much is in the primary legislation and how much is in the operational notice and the mechanics of it. My expectation is that an application form will include specific requirements, and that\u2019s part of the detailed operation of the regime once we get under way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t think adding \u201Cclearly and completely\u201D, which I think was one of her\u2014I think it was Amendment Paper 156 that does that. I\u2019m not sure we need that\u2014that a lot turns on that. I\u2019m advised that that is not necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s an issue about how much detail is required at the referral phase, because it\u2019s like a two-step process, right? There\u2019s the referral, off to the expert panel, and then the expert panel works through and then the consenting. The Government\u2019s view is that to require an ecological assessment at the referral stage would be not appropriate\u2014it\u2019s not necessary at that stage. Clearly, issues like that are going to be worked through as part of the expert panel process but not at the referral process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u00227ea6064a2e144414982fc9ff532e5266\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ea6064a2e144414982fc9ff532e5266\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Chair. I just wanted to check with the Minister responsible for RMA Reform: since he was last in the chair, there was an amendment that was tabled, which I know the Chair did allow us to speak on because no one else came in late\u2014that\u2019s correct, isn\u2019t it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3518483c5eb4808b3353474a9e74f25\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Is there a number or is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d46549b5f644856b1e2d815685a4812\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yeah, sorry. It\u2019s the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288764367d91f4a818214e7a968795da9\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Say the time it was tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229862b1a132e246e18d270126cac6e140\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: It was tabled at 11.35 a.m. It was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e66eb14a7b744d497347aa3c245a759\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Ah, right. OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a83bba50c813456f94828ed31e111058\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014on behalf of the Hon Chris Bishop. I just want to clarify with the Minister, in terms of finding that mistake. Obviously, there were too many zeroes. It was around OceanaGold and in terms of the hectares that they were allowed to use, potentially, in this process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EFor myself, I know the Hon Rachel Brooking, I know Lan Pham, and those who came into the Environment Committee\u2014we did our best to work through the legislation that we had. We didn\u2019t see this. Could I ask the Minister to clarify, I guess, that we know that information in Schedule\u00A02 has been double-checked, triple-checked in terms of there aren\u2019t any more mistakes or concerns in this? I mean, I\u2019m kind of glad that it\u2019s a lesser number rather than a higher number, but is there any confirmation from your officials or yourself that we can actually be, I guess, clear and assured that everything in this schedule actually is accurate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022b53deb61272b49eb91ae2b2d2af16f6a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b53deb61272b49eb91ae2b2d2af16f6a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m advised by the officials that this was picked up on the triple-check, so it\u2019s a good thing for the committee. I hope there are no other very, very small errors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u002210ea46978260407ab93a395de9859f70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210ea46978260407ab93a395de9859f70\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I would remind the Minister responsible for RMA Reform of my questions about standing that he has not answered. It would be very good to have an answer on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI also asked questions earlier on about the new prioritisation process and why that was required and whether that is in part because the panel that decided on the 149 projects didn\u2019t check for conflicts amongst them, all because of some of those projects not actually being ready yet. Comment on that would be interesting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWe also had a discussion on whether or not minerals should be able to be referred, and another Minister in the chair talked about minerals that weren\u2019t coal. Would he consider excluding coal, then, for the referred matters? That\u2019s a number of questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThen, going to new clause 24P, there is the hearing of a panel. This is for any project that gets this far, referred or listed, and \u201CThere is no requirement for a panel to hold a hearing\u201D, and \u201Cno person has a right to be heard by a panel.\u201D This is disappointing, given all that we have been discussing so far, which is that there are 149 projects, they have not gone through a select committee process, many of them give a private benefit to individual companies, and they are substantive. They have to be of regional or national significance, so they\u2019re big projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve just been talking about the number of zeros attached to a mining proposal in terms of area. These are big things that will have large environmental effects as well, and they would normally end up in an Environment Court\u2014and I\u2019ll talk about that in a minute as well. But here, there\u2019s no hearing required. We have, in Glen Bennett\u2019s name, Amendment Paper 134, and that is to change \u201CHearing not required\u201D to \u201CHearing required\u201D and to change the subsequent language in new clause 24P, and also in new clause 24Q. New clause 24Q is about what, if a hearing is held, would then happen, and we\u2019ve, obviously, got amendments to make that consistent for the requiring of a hearing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI saw that the Minister was about to get to his feet. I can leave that there and get an answer before moving on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00226901f47434214674877a8bd550d4f9c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226901f47434214674877a8bd550d4f9c7\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you. No, we\u2019re not excluding coal in the bill. Nice try, but no, we won\u2019t be doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to the hearing, of course, I don\u2019t need to talk to Jonesy about that one. The clause in relation to\u2014it\u2019s in 24P, \u201CHearing not required\u201D. That just mirrors the COVID19 fast-track legislation. Of course, that didn\u2019t require a hearing. It\u2019s just to say that, if there\u2019s no need for a hearing, you don\u2019t need to have one. Clearly it is a range of projects on this list that are going to require a hearing\u2014it will just depend on the panel. But complex projects will almost certainly require a hearing; if they don\u2019t, then they\u2019re not required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8cb385d06fc43eaaaedda6dc82a599e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8cb385d06fc43eaaaedda6dc82a599e\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E To continue this line, again, going back to my earlier contribution about who can make comments on an application, and who has standing: I haven\u2019t had an answer on that yet, and if he is just now reminding us about the COVID legislation, that didn\u2019t require a hearing, for a much smaller range of projects that were much less controversial, and I\u2019d remind the committee that that COVID legislation has 17 listed projects in it. They went to the Environment Committee\u2014a very short select committee process\u2014and 16 of those 17 involved a Government agency. One of them was about water supply in the Far North, and I have not delved into the ownership of that issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThis legislation is very different. There are 149 projects listed, and many, many of them are entirely private; they are clearly private with a private benefit, and we\u2019ve heard how they are going to make money. On the Minister responsible for RMA Reform\u2019s argument that because the COVID legislation didn\u2019t require a hearing, it\u2019s OK for this legislation, one or two things: one, the COVID legislation was much more restricted\u2014or three things\u2014there was an emergency, and all of those parties that I read out before had to be involved in the process. They\u2019re not included in this process. I would like answers to those points, please. And I can continue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002203c98ee5b33c4682ba1fead77faa7bc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203c98ee5b33c4682ba1fead77faa7bc0\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I mean, I\u2019m not sure what\u2019s to be gained. I mean, we can have a reasonable debate about whether or not the COVID fast track was the right thing to do. I mean, like a lot of things that happened during COVID which were justified under the guise of the emergency\u2014it\u2019s not clear to me why Parliament had to pass a piece of fast-track legislation for so-called shovel ready projects. There are shovel ready projects, some of which were funded under the shovel ready fund, that are yet to start! That funding also funded Lake Onslow, which was 2038. A lot of things were done under COVID; I\u2019m not sure what, frankly, turns on that. This fast-track piece of legislation is different to the COVID fast tracks, no doubt about that. Everyone can see how: it\u2019s more substantive, it\u2019s more expensive, and it\u2019s a one-stop shop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe only point I was making is that the lack of requirement for the hearing was in that legislation, it\u2019s also in this one. Some of the procedures are similar, although not the same. I have to be honest\u2014my apologies, she may have raised these issues when I wasn\u2019t here in the chair\u2014but I\u2019ve missed the question around comments. Perhaps if she can repeat exactly what she\u2019s asking for there, I\u2019m happy to come back and have a look.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EAs the member knows, I think there is a range of provisions in the legislation, from clause 24U onwards, around information requesting of commissioning of advice and things like that. If the member has a specific question about comments, I\u2019m happy to address that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022afc0c2faa86e4dab83b760072db6921e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afc0c2faa86e4dab83b760072db6921e\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I will look to the Minister responsible for RMA Reform for guidance about what he missed or not. What I was talking about was the standing of different groups to be able to and that must\u2014so there\u2019s a \u201Cmust\u201D here\u2014at new clause 24M\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d97b4ccd5974384a480654dff2c40cf\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, \u201CM\u201D or \u201CN\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225652c3f5ca2145428e6cf65125d32f19\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s \u201CM\u201D\u2014\u201CM\u201D for \u201CMickey Mouse\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5600a3398fa4cb8ba37996ece6ce8c4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CM\u201D for \u201Cmother\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278a40c226a4d44a79a5cb20ae3a998bf\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: I prefer Mickey Mouse, but there we go. New clause 24M lists the groups that must be consulted or be invited to make comment on an application, and they are the local authorities, they are the landowners, they are adjoining landowners, and some iwi groups. They are not Business New Zealand, Infrastructure New Zealand, New Zealand Fish and Game Council, etc. We have an amendment\u2014Amendment Paper 142\u2014that would include all those groups that were in the COVID legislation. The COVID legislation specifically named these groups, and that\u2019s why this amendment uses those groups. It\u2019s not some new made-up list or anything, and, of course, we\u2019re very happy for it to be updated if the Minister thought that that was required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThe point is that, if these processes were done under the Resource Management Act, they would be publicly notified and open to everyone. If they were done under the COVID legislation, they would not be publicly notified but they would have comments from the specified groups. Under this legislation, there\u2019s no such requirement. The panel may ask and the Minister for Infrastructure may suggest some groups, but those are \u201Cmays\u201D; they are not \u201Cmusts\u201D. What I am seeking is an amendment where these groups must be consulted, and, as I mentioned, if the Minister wants to engage in that process, we\u2019re very happy to discuss what groups should be in and out of that list.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002284099332963c424caaf6018b1a8ffa2d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284099332963c424caaf6018b1a8ffa2d\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, I understand the point now\u2014I\u2019ve got it. Thank you very much\u2014my apologies. We\u2019re not supportive of that. I mean, it\u2019s not an unreasonable suggestion; I just don\u2019t think it\u2019s necessary. The moment you start getting specific about particular interest groups like Business New Zealand, Infrastructure New Zealand\u2014all good people; I\u2019m not having a go at them\u2014you start to limit discretion, and you make things more mandatory\u2014potentially slows things down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe other thing I would say is that, unlike the COVID-19 legislation, which was to do with the Resource Management Act, this is a one-stop shop. There\u2019ll be a panoply of groups that have interests in different\u2014it depends on the project, obviously. Members are smart enough to think of different interest groups across the spectrum that will have an interest in different parts of projects, and so you wouldn\u2019t want to limit or fetter that discretion. There\u2019ll be groups that are relevant to some but not to others, and, you know, Infrastructure New Zealand is a busy body; I don\u2019t want to burden them with endless consultation. It\u2019s a reasonable suggestion, but we\u2019re not supportive of that, either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca8b04296fc94924a5aaed0254ea0a12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca8b04296fc94924a5aaed0254ea0a12\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m speaking to Part 2, Subpart\u00A02, which is the approvals process and referrals of projects to fast-track approvals process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EIn terms of the consultation requirements for referral applications, if you shift across to page 27, under the heading \u201CWhat is needed to complete project\u201D, new clause 22DA(4) and then clause 14(3)(r) and (s). Speaking to paragraph (s), under the heading \u201CWhat is needed to complete project\u201D, is \u201Can outline of the types of consents, certificates, designations, concessions, and other legal authorisations (other than contractual authorisations or the proposed approvals) that the applicant considers are needed to authorise the project, including any that the applicant considers may be needed by someone other than the applicant:\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EMy question and concern is that for an assessment to be made on the soundness of the information presented to those who are making a determination in that referral, surely there has to be a more independent perspective than simply what the applicant considers is needed to authorise the project? That\u2019s my question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EMy proposed amendment that I think would make it clearer in some degree\u2014though there could be other ways of doing it. My proposed Amendment Paper 161 is that we delete, in new clause 14, the words \u201Cthe applicant considers\u201D, so that the sentence would then read \u201Cthat are needed to authorise the project\u201D. There are other ways you could do that, but that\u2019s just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022393c322d476548b3bfee3757d096d907\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m just wondering, could the member just speak into the microphone a little bit? I missed the last couple of sentences when you started talking about the Amendment Paper. Could you just repeat what you just said?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204bd809396de40cfbd4b03b5437740bf\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL\u003C/span\u003E: Like from 30 seconds ago?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293a85b6b52fa4442ad577ecd661423d8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fef6939e13a4afa99c999197f3de19d\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, pardon me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a28557ad4a1428a8c9411a35db2d494\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ef30b36b7734760b6146c5b454756f9\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL\u003C/span\u003E: The Amendment Paper essentially deletes the words \u201Cthe applicant considers\u201D in new clause 14, on page 24, line 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThere is another Amendment Paper which is on a different matter, in a sense, because my essential question around the applicant\u2019s view of what is needed is a question of the problem of an applicant withholding information that may be important in the determination of the referral decision. How is it tested that the applicant has presented full and thorough information and has not withheld important information that those considering it might need to know, such as the failure to uphold previous consents by that given organisation or company?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EAnother suggestion is Amendment Paper 160, in the name of Lan Pham. In clause 14, at the beginning of that same section, the current wording is \u201Can outline of the types of consents, certificates, designations\u201D. The proposed amendment is that that word \u201Coutline\u201D be deleted and replaced with the words \u201Ca detailed description\u201D of the types of consents, certificates, and designations. Again, it\u2019s about assuring a thorough depth of information is provided so that a decision can be determined. But, really, I\u2019m keen to hear what the Minister responsible for RMA Reform\u2019s views are on the earlier amendment as well. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u00226faad59ba772441083824e1cf73c0714\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226faad59ba772441083824e1cf73c0714\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m just going back to the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s contribution and then your response, Minister. Just for clarity, I understand you\u2019re talking about it getting bogged down and you\u2019re not wanting to have lots of\u2014you know, this is fast track, so we hear you. At the same time, I guess, in giving validity to this process, having a group like Business New Zealand\u2014but again, there are tight parameters around the process. This is just as something to consider, in that actually it might give a bit more hope to the community and to business around this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI want to come to\u2014it was in the schedule, but it\u2019s around the process of this, which is in terms of, I guess, the involvement of local government in the process. In Taranaki, where I am, we\u2019ve got Stratford Park Ltd, which is a good project. As we\u2019ve said on this side of the Chamber, we oppose the bill, but we don\u2019t necessarily oppose all the projects, because some of them actually will have an impact, and this is one of those projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EWhen I look through the legislation, and I\u2019m looking at new clause 19(2B) on Amendment Paper 238, which says that \u201CWithout limiting subsection (1), a local authority must provide comments advising of\u2014(a) any applications that have been lodged with the local authority that would be competing applications if a substantive application for the project were lodged;\u201D, and it continues with part (b) of that. I guess in terms of this process of fast track, you have the projects in Schedule 2. Were they considered through this same lens or is this a new lens in terms of what we have in Part 2? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EFor example, Stratford Park\u2014I think it\u2019s got some real merits in terms of the possibility of what could actually be done regionally but also for the jurisdiction of Stratford District Council. But how does the process of Schedule 2 fit in with Part 2 in terms of whether this whole process was considered for all those 149 projects? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002241e7fa26210a496e91d0207ad1698e9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241e7fa26210a496e91d0207ad1698e9f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E The member Glen Bennett might have to elucidate a bit more about what he\u2019s saying. There\u2019s, basically, two pathways to get to the expert panel: one, you can be listed in Schedule 2, which Parliament has agreed after some debate. Those projects are automatically\u2014assuming the bill passes\u2014deemed by Parliament to be through the gateway test of regional and national significance. They then can apply to the Environmental Protection Authority to go to the expert panel for consideration, and then a final determination. The other pathway is the more generic pathway, which is outlined\u2014I don\u2019t have the exact clauses in front of me\u2014at various different stages, which is the referral. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe initial plan was for the three Ministers to do the joint referrals to expert panels, and then for the final consenting to be done by the troika. That\u2019s no longer the case now. We\u2019ve simplified and streamlined that into the Minister for Infrastructure, who does the referral\u2014which is currently me, but it\u2019s a portfolio thing rather than me\u2014and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236561fc8ae9845d1aa0a98b41288b07c\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: It doesn\u2019t specify \u201CChris Bishop\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258211d2d5d6e4f9485a4dbe87cb29853\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, there\u2019s no bills of attainder in this Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213d0fca6a8dd4b1ea99ea14f3af6a151\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Not yet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227510177be1b44435be85a9424c6801f7\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Not yet\u2014no, we won\u2019t do that, I hasten to add. It\u2019s currently me. There\u2019s a range of requirements that the Minister for Infrastructure is required to take into account and consultation requirements, and then that goes off to the expert panel. That\u2019s the kind of basic thrust of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ELook, we could have a debate about it, and, in fact, Rachel Brooking\u2019s got some amendments around it and has made some suggestions. Reasonable people can disagree. None of the suggestions are without merit. The Government has come to a view that we think\u00A0we\u2019ve got the balance about right, but happy to have a discussion around it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u00229a50d81dc7f84c99a5dd0c728d5aec6f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a50d81dc7f84c99a5dd0c728d5aec6f\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I hadn\u2019t initially thought that I was going to ask a question, but the Minister responsible for RMA Reform\u2019s recent response, a couple of questions back, just made something that I thought was clarified a little less clear to me. I do want to go back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EI know that you have answered some previous questions about clause 14AAA in terms of the process of consultation, but the one that I was thinking about in particular was that I know the Department of Corrections put in a fast-track application for Auckland Prison. When I was looking, as I just happened to be, at the prison network assessment for capacity expansion that was done earlier in the year\u2014and you\u2019ll be familiar as a Minister that a lot of that information is presented as a bit of a traffic light. Auckland Prison itself, under the three criteria, the strategic requirement to add capacity was certainly green, but the ability to commence construction quickly and the site configuration costs to develop new capacity had previously been rated red, because there\u2019s a cap of 610 prisoners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe application to fast track that, to essentially double the number of prisoners, I can see why the Department of Corrections would have put that application in; it takes away what was previously rated red flags, that would have been the process under the Resource Management Act, and essentially means that they can go through that expansion process. They have said: subsequent to getting approval through the fast-track process, but they don\u2019t actually have any concrete plans to do so at the moment\u2014but if they need to, or should they need to in a hurry. I do note that quite frequently in this House we are discussing Government policy which does automatically involve the increase of prison numbers, and we know that, worst case scenario, those prison beds run out at around about June next year\u2014best case scenario, we\u2019ve got another couple of years up our sleeves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EIt did make your previous answer in relation to the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s question about not being more open to having \u201Cmust\u201D and being more facilitative in that consultation period, because this will be a consultation that is not straightforward, and it\u2019s not something a panel could simply pay lip service to. We don\u2019t have that many prisons in New Zealand; they are quite unique facilities. The surrounding areas and the environments in which they find themselves require in-depth consultation, and I see that the Minister, Minister Mitchell, has assured the public in public statements that any future expansion would involve full public consultation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EI\u2019m just wondering if the Minister in the chair, the Hon Chris Bishop, given that this particular application did cause some consternation and ruffle a few feathers\u2014certainly, Auckland Council expressed some surprise that it was not only applied for but also granted, and the community has certainly expressed some concerns about it as well. Given your hesitancy to sort of favour those amendments that have been proposed on this side of the Chamber, can you give me some reassurances or talk me through what that consultation process might look like for a project like this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022556c1d5ba1334961a96c8411a05d76ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022556c1d5ba1334961a96c8411a05d76ef\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I don\u2019t want to comment specifically on the prison project, mainly because I\u2019m not super familiar with it, to be honest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe member can probably imagine the sort of consultation that would take place for the community over the expansion of the prison. It would largely depend on where the site is located and who might be affected by it. And, look, people who are involved in large-scale projects in New Zealand are very familiar with the idea of community consultation. I would draw a distinction between legally mandated consultation and consultation that project sponsors do because it is clearly in their commercial interests or public interest to do so, because no one wants to build something in a place where it\u2019s not wanted, or at least where there is broad scale community opposition. People tend to find that doesn\u2019t create a particularly hospitable environment. Anyway, there\u2019s a range of consultation requirements at clause 14AAA, as the member well knows.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe other point I would say is to draw a distinction between consenting and funding. Yes, it\u2019s true that that project that has been applied for has been listed as consented. Listing for consent is not funded, and that is actually partly by design choice through the bill. What we are trying to do is build up a pipeline of projects that may have consent or at least are in the pipeline for consent that don\u2019t necessarily have funding attached. But that\u2019s actually part of the problem with the way we do things in New Zealand: we get the money together and then we go off and get consent, and it takes five years. In the meantime, the costs have gone up, and we have to rescope and reprice things. Transmission Gully is a classic example of that, where Transmission Gully was\u2014you know, a deal was signed and then, I mean, without getting too much into the weeds of it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292ed3cf9963649359fb07f83013e719b\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: That was a shocker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258f56cb899e34cc9b83d967d0b4c9876\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014they spent\u2014well, the problem was they spent 2\u00BD years getting the resource consents to the regional\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022261b467519a2486fbd8f7eaa23f46816\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: You mucked it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c9cda7d8a0749f7bc313728f31111ad\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, actually. This is completely\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aae46725a1664128b7842c575100e7f7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re talking process here; we\u2019re not going to start blaming each other. Just be very clear on\u2014we\u2019re talking process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e395fabd0594481c98a5f10400cf98d9\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022009106b719e24a49aea722ff6d68dbcb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m not pointing the finger at any specific person\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222554d207a208430c818fca6537b24e60\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I\u2019m just making a point: Transmission Gully is a perfect demonstration of it, because a deal was signed and then the consents took three years, and the consent conditions were so onerous that that drove the cost up. It\u2019s exactly what happened. The regional council consents took forever, and there might have been good reason for that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fd0bf0a8d5848a7a283fb877628d6a7\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: What are you saying about iReX?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e6e22304b9e4a3595972c54a64bd287\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but that is part of the\u2014well, we\u2019re not; that is completely outside the realm of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fc988be9b5948259fd70abfa8598196\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, out of scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291a7c3efcdc740f48e7c715cfe2a0f62\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: If you want to have a fight about that, we can do that through general debate or question time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238d983bf35054aa3a7e0de46862f2614\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: We will\u2014we will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a512ddaf3294ccca9ef191cbb713686\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll look forward to it. I\u2019m not the Minister responsible, so you can have fun with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EAnyway, what we\u2019re trying to do is reverse this. I\u2019ll give a simpler example that\u2019s less controversial: when I first became an MP, there was a lot of talk about the Haywards Hill interchange\u2014State Highway 2 connects State Highway 58\u2014and that project was built in 16 months, in 2015. The reason why it was built is this: NZTA got to the end of the financial year and had $50 million lying around and, like all Government departments and Crown agencies, they went \u201CRight, what can we spend some money on before the financial year runs out, before the Treasury comes calling and takes it back to the centre?\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EPeople who\u2019ve been Ministers before know exactly how that process works. They looked around for a project that had consent, because you can\u2019t build anything without a consent, and so they looked around and lying on their books was the Haywards interchange project, which some planner in NZTA had had the far-sighted decision to go and get a consent for, I don\u2019t know, seven or eight years before. It was consented; they had the funding, it was ready to go, there was basically nothing else that could be funded and that was consented, so off it went, and it got built and now it\u2019s there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThat has always struck me as just a great way of doing things: you might have a massive pipeline of consented projects that funding is not yet attached for, but the point is that when the funding becomes available or the economics work or the business case is approved or whatever the case may be\u2014it will differ depending on public and private sector\u2014you can go and do it. It completely inverts what we normally do in this country, which is that we get all the funding together and then we spend years and years and years arguing about whether or not we can have consent. In the meantime, the project economics change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s actually a deliberate design choice to try and invert that situation. There\u2019s quite a lot of people out there saying, \u201COh, well, you know, you\u2019re going to consent this project but it has no funding\u201D. Well, yeah, that\u2019s true; we have limited funding. Everyone knows that the Crown doesn\u2019t have limitless resources and there\u2019s a debate between both sides of the House about trade-offs. But can we all agree that there are trade-offs, that money is not unlimited, that you have to make choices and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdd8b4e1e48a46bcb389df28fda6db7e\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: It makes sense to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf40b7001ad249ff851ca7fe8e0b45c9\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, thank you very much, Mr Costley; that\u2019s good\u2014you\u2019re on my side of it. I\u2019d be worrying if it didn\u2019t. With that, I\u2019ll finish my contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb232e3929a64c7a992310781dddef4e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb232e3929a64c7a992310781dddef4e\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Given the Minister responsible for RMA Reform\u2019s last contribution, I am wondering if he has heard of designations and notices of requirement, which are, of course, good long-term planning tools. I suspect his road might have been part of one of those\u2014used one of those tools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ELook, I want to go back to new clause 24AF, \u201CMinisterial powers\u201D, which says that the \u201CMinister may determine that project is priority\u201D. This is a new clause that is in the Minister\u2019s Amendment Paper 238, and I have already spoken on it when a different Minister was in the chair, but I just raise it because it would be interesting to know how it relates to the discussion that the Minister was just having; if it fits into that discourse about wanting a pipeline of projects on that list of 149, because that question was not answered. It would be good to have the Minister answer that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ETwo things related to that: one is that there are numerous changes in this Amendment Paper that the Minister hasn\u2019t touched on at all, and it would be good to know if any are substantive or not. I asked another Minister in the chair the same question. I accept that there will be bits that are moved around for various different reasons, but if there are substantive changes and if this project is a priority, is a substantive one, if it\u2019s\u2014what\u2019s the meaning of it, it would be useful to know that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EAlso, I\u2019m interested in how that pipeline of work works for private projects and how that works with a priori, because the Minister\u2019s examples that he was just talking about were to do with Government projects and Government budgets and coming to year-end and wanting to spend things and having to make a decision to fund something before you can consent it if you don\u2019t have a designation for it. I understand that point, but how, then, does that same logic flow through to the many projects on the 149 list to do with private projects that aren\u2019t to do with Government funding at all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, going back to where I was at in the bill, I\u2019ve just flicked back there. When we were talking about standing before and who has standing, and we were talking about groups such as BusinessNZ and Infrastructure New Zealand, the Minister quipped that the Infrastructure Commission was very busy and they shouldn\u2019t have to be consulted on all of these applications. Of course, the way the COVID legislation worked\u2014which is what I modelled the amendment on that I was speaking to\u2014is that they were invited to comment. There was no compulsion that they had to comment, but they had the option to comment, and we heard the Hon David Parker in the House earlier note that Greenpeace, in particular, was invited\u2014I hope it was Greenpeace; apologies to Greenpeace if I misheard what David Parker was saying\u2014but that they chose not to comment. It\u2019s a choice for those organisations to comment or not. They probably would see what other organisations were commenting or not. It would not be an unnecessary burden on groups like the Infrastructure Commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, moving on to new clause 24WB and amendments on this. We had an Amendment Paper pretty much to delete new clause 24WB, which is, \u201CConditions must be no more onerous than\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a217b08c25042dca64f0df3d8fbf708\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the amendment number?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da6cc89d3b064453b02ae7d281a8dad3\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Amendment Paper 133, and this is the name of Dr Duncan Webb. New clause 24WB has been amended a little bit by the Minister\u2019s amendment, the big Amendment Paper, and now this is what it reads: \u201CWhen exercising the discretion to set a condition under this Act, the panel must not set a condition that is more onerous than necessary to address the reason for which it is set in accordance with the provision of this Act that confers this discretion.\u201D That seems to be quite a confusing provision, and I\u2019m not sure that it\u2019s necessary given normal environmental laws that set out that you can\u2019t have a condition that undermines the granting of the consent in the first place. I\u2019m wondering if the Minister wants to comment on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThen, if we move to new clause 24WD on the same Amendment Paper 133, we have some changes to that\u2014that\u2019s \u201CWhen panel must or may decline approvals\u201D. I mentioned at the outset that I was very interested in the difference between these two words, \u201Cmay\u201D and \u201Cmust\u201D, and so in the Minister\u2019s amendment, it\u2019s all been changed quite a lot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI won\u2019t talk in detail about the changes suggested in Amendment Paper 133, but I will talk at a higher level about it, because the point was that what this clause 24WD does is say that some things are so bad they must be declined\u2014an ineligible activity: that \u201Cmust\u201D be declined\u2014but there are other things that are not so bad, so they \u201Cmay\u201D be declined. There\u2019s a discretion there. Some of those things that would be discretionary, under \u201Cmay\u201D, include: \u201Cthe activity or activities for which the approval is sought would have 1 or more adverse impacts; and (b) those adverse impacts \u2026 outweigh the purpose of this Act even after any conditions that the panel may set in relation to those impacts are taken into account.\u201D We\u2019re trying to get what was, too, the \u201Cmay\u201D into a \u201Cmust\u201D there. That sounds like a very bad outcome that should be declined. It \u201Cmust\u201D be declined rather than and \u201Cmay\u201D be declined. I would ask the Minister to consider that, noting that he\u2019s slightly reworked the section in his amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThen I also want to ask: in the Minister\u2019s Amendment Paper, at new clause 24WD(3), there appears to be a new section, but again, there\u2019s no numbers that give you clues about how it relates to the former version. It says: \u201CTo avoid doubt, a panel may not form the view that an adverse impact meets the threshold in subsection (2)(b) solely on the basis that the adverse impact is inconsistent with or contrary to a provision of a specified Act or any other document that a panel must take into account or otherwise consider in complying with section 24W(2).\u201D I really want to know what this clause means and why the Minister wants it in there. It does look like, at first reading, it\u2019s trying to constrain the issues and the adverse effects, the bad things, that a panel is allowed to decline on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EIf the Minister could comment on that change and also my proposals in the Amendment Paper of the change from the \u201Cmay\u201D to a \u201Cmust\u201D. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u00224f0dd30c653f48eb8f3b7d063eee0a00\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f0dd30c653f48eb8f3b7d063eee0a00\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Chair. Just for clarity\u2014oh, I\u2019ll come back to that once the Minister responsible for RMA Reform is paying attention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI have an amendment in my name, Amendment Paper 134, which amends new clauses 24P and 24Q around the hearing of the panel, and I understand\u2014we get it. We get what you\u2019re wanting to do. We don\u2019t agree with it, but we get what you\u2019re trying to do, but the question we would have is: is there some way of having some checks and balances in place for this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ETo new clause 24P, \u201CHearing not required\u201D: during the select committee process, there was huge interest or huge concern about the fact that someone living next door to a major infrastructure project has no ability to engage, and so my proposal is to replace the current sentence with \u201CThere is a requirement for a panel to hold a hearing in respect of a substantive application and all persons listed in section 24M have a right to be heard by a panel.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, I kind of feel I know what your answer will be, but hear us out because, surely, there is a way to do this where it can be short and sharp. Surely, if you aren\u2019t willing to actually have serious engagement with community, with stakeholders, with those who are affected by major infrastructure, major substantive applications, then surely, by changing this clause, you could actually have a subclause below that which has it time-bound, or has in terms of geography and connection those impacted and affected. It actually wouldn\u2019t slow the process down. It would actually just ensure\u2014I talk a lot about social licence, but it is one of those things that I think is really important for us as a community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EIn particular, I remember listening during the submission process to Firstgas, who actually spoke cautiously in favour of this legislation, and their caution was around social licence, Minister, because it was the fact that they have pipes on private land. They have to negotiate and work with landowners every day to ensure that the infrastructure they have is looked after. Their concern was the fact that there has to be buy-in and there has to be actual engagement from locals or those who are impacted. That\u2019s my suggestion: to amend new clause 24P and change that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThe next part is new clause 24Q, \u201CProcedure if hearing is held\u201D. Now, in this instance, what I\u2019m proposing to do here is replace \u201Cif hearing is held\u201D with \u201Cfor hearing\u201D, and then, in new clause 24Q(1), replace \u201CIf, in its discretion, a panel considers it is appropriate to hold a hearing on a substantive application (or any other part of a substantive application) it may hear from\u201D. Then it goes on also with amending\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CA panel holding a hearing on a substantive application must invite to a hearing\u201D. Again, it\u2019s around including some of those key people who are connected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI just think there is an opportunity here to allow this, because we\u2019d love for people to cross the floor and come on to our side, but we get that, potentially, this will pass. But if it is going to, why not work on it so that, actually, people in the electorates that the people in Government represent actually feel like they\u2019ve been heard and are part of it. It doesn\u2019t have to be long\u2014it could be something short and sharp\u2014but at least someone has actually been included, and that is often a part of that social licence that companies like Firstgas talk about. So there are those are two amendments that I have, and I\u2019ve got a couple more to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00220b7bb7f2ea244a169ed62671dcf4241a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b7bb7f2ea244a169ed62671dcf4241a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E Let me just deal with these briefly. Clause 24AF, from Rachel Brooking\u2014this is a new clause\u2014\u201CMinister may determine that project is priority\u201D. Basically, what we\u2019re trying to do there is\u2014if that clause wasn\u2019t there, it would just be first in, first served. It would just be whoever\u2014because that\u2019s the basic, underlying principle of the Resource Management Act. It\u2019s just first in, and things get processed depending on when stuff gets in. That will generally be the case, but it will also provide for the Minister to determine that a project is a priority and it will allow the Minister for Infrastructure to rearrange the order in which the project is considered. That, essentially, gives the Minister greater discretion around things. That\u2019s what we\u2019re doing there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to the question around what it is\u2014she quoted the phrase, \u201CTo avoid doubt\u201D, etc. I won\u2019t quote the rest of the words. She said, \u201CWell, what does that mean?\u201D What that means in plain English is that it makes it clear that just because an effect or part of a project may be inconsistent with national direction or part of a particular plan, that is not grounds in and of itself to turn a project down. It needs to meet the test for decline, which is laid out in the other parts of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to Glen Bennett\u2019s proposal, I mean, we\u2019re covering ground that\u2019s already been trod over here, which is that we\u2019re just replicating in the bill the section from the COVID19 Recovery (Fast-track Consenting) Act about lack of a hearing if we were going to require a hearing. His suggestions might have some merit, but we\u2019re not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022 data-id=\u00225934115b2bee465a9c2b48214b6c2979\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225934115b2bee465a9c2b48214b6c2979\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I would like to really specifically home in on clause 15, which we haven\u2019t yet discussed and which I have Amendment Paper 163 on, and that I would like to speak to and hear the Minister responsible for RMA Reform\u2019s views on. Firstly, clause 15 is a really key one in that it\u2019s about the responsibilities of what\u2019s deemed the responsible agency in their decisions about whether referral applications are actually complete and within scope, and so, initially, I just have some questions about whether that responsible agency is always the Ministry for the Environment (MfE) or whether there are times where it might be the Environmental Protection Authority or the Department of Conservation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003ENow, why I\u2019m interested in this is because we know that all three agencies have been subjected to quite serious cuts to their funding and that\u2019s resulted in some really significant changes within their staffing and personnel. For example, MfE has a 39 percent budget cut, which has implications across their business. Now, I don\u2019t doubt that MfE will find it within their limited resources to actually prioritise staff members to do this job, but what I\u2019m concerned about with clause 14 is the fact that they have 10 working days to decide whether a referral application actually complies, after receiving it. There\u2019s quite a high burden on them to actually be assessing these applications\u2014and this could be hundreds of applications\u2014so it is a really intense administrative task.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EWhat my amendment refers to is clause 15(1A)(b), and it says, \u201C(1A) A referral application complies with this subsection if\u2014\u2026 (b) the responsible agency considers that\u201D\u2014and I\u2019m glad that the amendment has suggested deleting \u201Con the face of the application,\u201D, because at\u00A0least that suggests some level of detail of scrutiny of the actual application. What\u2019s concerning about it is that it goes on to say, \u201Cthe project\u2014\u2026\u201D\u2014and this is paragraph (b)(ii)\u2014\u201C(ii) does not appear to involve an ineligible activity;\u201D. Now, what I\u2019m suggesting in this Amendment Paper is to actually delete the \u201Cappear to\u201D, because that seems to constitute a very cursory responsibility on the responsible agency to check these very significant and serious criteria about what makes a project eligible or ineligible. I would really appreciate the Minister\u2019s thoughts on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EThe other questions I have are: what happens in a situation when an applicant\u2019s referral application does not comply with the requirements repeatedly? Will applicants be able to basically continually lodge applications\u2014and as many as they like\u2014until the responsible agency is actually happy that they are compliant with the requirements of 15(1A)(b)(i) and (ii)? I would really appreciate the Minister\u2019s thoughts about these, because they seem of significant implication.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002221a82221c93d467491ae972b081bee32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221a82221c93d467491ae972b081bee32\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you to Lan Pham for that excellent question. I\u2019m advised that the responsible agency at the referral stage is the Ministry for the Environment (MfE). The responsible agency at the substantive stage is the Environmental Protection Authority (EPA). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to her concerns about costs being cut at MfE and the EPA, the salient point is this: this whole regime is going to operate on a cost recovery basis. I\u2019ve made that really clear. There\u2019s a whole separate process around application costs and referral fees and all the rest of it, but the point is it\u2019s going to be neutral. It\u2019ll be complicated, but the salient point is this: applicants who are going to use the fast track will be charged at various different points and the referral costs, the administration, and all the sort of administration around all of that stuff throughout the process will be cost recovered from them, and so the staff and the various resources required\u2014over time it\u2019ll be neutral for the Crown, so we\u2019re not subsidising through the administration of the applications.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022 data-id=\u0022734e5414db0441c194e7a4ea9022a73f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022734e5414db0441c194e7a4ea9022a73f\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for that response from the Minister responsible for RMA Reform. What I\u2019m really interested in is the policy rationale for clause 15(1A)(b)(ii), where it is explicitly saying that it, \u201Cdoes not appear to involve an ineligible activity;\u201D. My concern is the cursory nature of that and I would like some assurance from the Minister that that is not, essentially, a get out of jail card for the responsible agency when it\u2019s such a clear and important bar that these applicants are asked to meet and should be meeting if they are to move through to the next stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u00229aa570639a844e69a8a61da624c778dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229aa570639a844e69a8a61da624c778dd\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I was going to go back and note\u2014and I\u2019ll note for the officials\u2014that my questions around clause 24C I don\u2019t think have been answered, and that is the new additions in this Amendment Paper 238\u2014the large Amendment Paper, the Government Amendment Paper. If it has increased what can be approved or not, that would be very useful to have an answer to. I thank the Minister responsible for RMA Reform for his response about clause 24AF in terms of priorities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI move now through to \u201CMiscellaneous provisions\u201D. I\u2019m now on Subpart 3 of Part 2 but have not yet touched on the many schedules that are an important part of this bill, and I note that members opposite have been jumping up for closure motions, which I think is a very poor form. Clause 26 is \u201CAppeal against decisions only on question of law\u201D, and that has been in the bill for some time, as reported back, but there is a change in this Amendment Paper 238\u2014this large amendment paper that was only tabled yesterday afternoon and has not been through select committee. At paragraph (aa), there\u2019s this new insertion: \u201Cthe applicant (or, if the substantive application was lodged by more than 1 authorised person, the person who has proposed to hold the approval)\u201D. It has been included rather than \u201Cthe authorised person whose substantive application sought the approval\u201D. Why has that change been made? That\u2019s my first question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not as worried about that, though, as I am about paragraph (e) of clause 26(1), which has been deleted, and this was \u201Cany person who has an interest in the decision appealed against that is greater than that of the general public.\u201D This is a substantive change because, already, appeal rights are constrained to questions of law, so there is no appeal on the merits. If you\u2019re in the Environment Court\u2014normal resource management procedures\u2014you may well have an option to do a full de novo hearing on appeal on all the merits; a merits-based appeal and everyone hears all the evidence and everything again. That is not an option in this case, because the appeals are only on questions of law, so they are already confined to the appeals. Normally in resource management and conservation legislation, \u201Cany person who has an interest in the decision appealed against that is greater than that of the general public\u201D\u2014that\u2019s a fairly normal phrase\u2014has the ability to appeal. That has been removed at the 11th hour and there has been no discussion about this proactively from the Minister. I would like to hear about that and, of course, suggest that that deletion of clause 26(1)(e) be undeleted, that the line is not struck through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI would then move to \u201CJudicial review\u201D, and this is a new clause, clause 27AAB, inserted by Amendment Paper 238. Again, it looks to be included just now in this amendment from the Minister. It\u2019s saying that \u201C(1) An application for review under the Judicial Review Procedure Act 2016\u201D\u2014blah, blah, blah\u2014\u201Cthat relates to a decision on a referral application or an approval sort and a substantive application must be filed with the High Court\u2014(a) no later than 20 working days after,\u2014\u201D the decision is made, and so it goes. My first point is there\u2019s this 20 - working-day period\u2014that appears to be quite short; I think, sometimes, it can be up to three months for a judicial review. Also, it seems new that there is this time frame put into the bill for judicial reviews. Then, at subclause (4), there\u2019s a new\u2014well it\u2019s all new\u2014underline: \u201CExcept as provided in this section, nothing in this Act limits or affects any right of judicial review a person may have in respect of any matter in which this Act applies.\u201D Presumably, all that this new clause 27AAB is really applying to, given subclause (4), is that time limit of the 20 working days. I\u2019d like, from the Minister, some explanation of that new clause. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWhilst we wait for an answer, I\u2019ll move on, then, to clause 27A, which is \u201CInterpretation\u201D. I have here a note that we have an amendment on Amendment Paper 135, which is for the old clause 27A, which was \u201CCost recovery\u201D, which has been deleted, but I presume it\u2019s been put somewhere else. Again, this is just a huge frustration that we have had no Minister in the chair explain to us why all these changes have been made and where we can go about finding the different provisions, and of course we haven\u2019t had the time to do that work ourselves. Clause 27A which is now deleted, the cost recovery provisions, says what the Minister was talking about before, that the idea is that these proposals are fully cost recoverable\u2014except for those iwi authorities or other groups similar to an iwi authority, M\u0101ori groups; there doesn\u2019t seem to be any ability for them to cost recover. There might be a change now in new clause 27B, inserted by Amendment Paper 238.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EMy Amendment Paper 135 that has been tabled since early November\u2014well, not mine, it was in the name of the Hon Peeni Henare\u2014was to include in clause 27A, at subclause (3A): \u201CAn iwi authority or anyone who is invited to make comment under \u2018section 24M(b) to (ea)\u2019 \u201D\u2014so that\u2019s the range of different groups\u2014\u201Cmay recover from the applicant the actual and reasonable cost incurred from participation in relation to the relevant substantive application.\u201D Why we have included that in an amendment is because whilst these iwi and other groups have to be\u2014customary rights holders; those sorts of groups\u2014consulted with, that always comes at a cost to those groups. It\u2019s a time cost, and they might need to involve professional people that they have to hire as well. It seems the bill as it was reported back from the Environment Committee\u2014that there was no way for those groups to recover costs; maybe similar arguments for how much local government can get as well. I\u2019m interested in the Minister\u2019s comments on our Amendment Paper 135, and what thought has been given to cost recovery for those M\u0101ori organisations that will be involved in the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022 data-id=\u00221842ae17b6a94dcfbca40f1b93a7bcdf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221842ae17b6a94dcfbca40f1b93a7bcdf\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. Thank you for the opportunity to speak in support of what has already been mentioned but also to examine and ask some more questions in relation to clause 14AA-ish, and also going over to clause 15, where I have questions in relation to engagement with M\u0101ori and trying to unpack and understand the intentions of the amendments made that we have before us\u2014as we have had limited time to review what\u2019s in front of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EEarlier in the piece, we discussed Part 2, clause 14AAA around consultation and engagement with M\u0101ori groups, and I have an Amendment Paper for clause 14. It\u2019s Amendment Paper 159 that I\u2019d like to speak to in relation to clause 14(3)(ha)\u2014we\u2019re going to go over it? Yes, we are. Yep, there we go. I can see it in the papers here. It\u2019s page 24, to guide my colleagues in my discussion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EWhat we have right now is that my Amendment Paper seeks to amend and change some of the subparagraphs provided, and it\u2019s around iwi authorities and it\u2019s around hap\u016B and Treaty settlement entities\u2014the post-settlement governance entities that I\u2019ve spoken to previously\u2014and recognising iwi authorities and groups that represent hap\u016B that are parties to relevant Mana Whakahono \u0101 Rohe, or joint management agreements. It\u2019s broadening it a bit there\u2014this is my amendment and my proposal\u2014but also going to our customary fisheries space, including tai\u0101pure and m\u0101taitai reserves, to be clear and explicit in terms of the voice of iwi k\u0101inga who can input into applications.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EFor these provisions here, they support those of us who are impacted as M\u0101ori groups through the projects that we have before us, going back to Whang\u0101rei Harbour, such as the McCallum Brothers mining our sand out at Ruak\u0101k\u0101, at Poupouwhenua, and also Northport, with their desire to go and dredge our papamoana in Whangarei-te-rerenga-par\u0101oa. By having the ability for us to utilise this amendment, it ensures that those of us who have got customary rights recognised through tai\u0101pure and m\u0101taitai get a say, because under the Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Act, we have yet to achieve a decision in the High Court in that space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EFurther, speaking in support of what has been put forward by the Hon Peeni Henare, in terms of reasonable cost recovery, that is an issue, and it came through strongly in submissions through wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi. The worry is that they will not be able to gear themselves up and have the relevant technicians on hand to support them. For some of these applications, even if you are a part of the notified group, it\u2019s substantial. We\u2019re guessing it\u2019s going to be a big application with a lot of technical detail, so the ability for hap\u016B iwi groups to be able to access technicians and to be able to pay for them and then recover the costs are not clear. We acknowledge that this amendment here from Peeni Henare seeks to ensure that reasonable costs from participants are able to be achieved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003ELocal government are locked in on the legislation. The hap\u016B iwi voice was really strong in the submissions, and kore taea te kite ki roto t\u0113nei ture [unable to find where this is within this bill]\u2014we\u2019re unable to find where we landed on that, in terms of hap\u016B iwi. We have many within the Whang\u0101rei district\u2014e hanga k\u0101rangirangi ana [it seems to be unsettling]. You can ask our Minister what \u201Ck\u0101rangirangi\u201D means, but it means that you\u2019re in a bit of a panic. You\u2019re panicking because it\u2019s coming. We\u2019ve got six in Whang\u0101rei Harbour, and how are they going to pay for the technicians, even if they get notified and included in the process? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EOne final question I\u2019d like to ask in relation to clause 15, which is the responsible agencies and whether to defer. In understanding the intentions of the process, who are the relevant Government departments that are going to do the referrals? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EThen, getting over to page 31, where we are at clause 19(2A), where the Minister, once they\u2019ve received the information and the panel has done their assessment\u2014it is my understanding from what we read before us that the Minister is to call for comment from M\u0101ori groups identified in the list provided to the Minister, and then the M\u0101ori land owners in the project area, and \u201CBefore the Minister invites comments under subsection (1), the responsible agency must provide the Minister with a list of the M\u0101ori groups referred to\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EFor this area here, the question is the agency itself, the responsible agency\u2014sometimes they don\u2019t get it right. Sometimes our agencies don\u2019t get it right, or they don\u2019t know who\u2019s in the whare or who\u2019s in the mara or who\u2019s in the harbour, so how do we ensure that our agencies themselves are geared up and prepared and understand the lie of the land whereby they are operating? Are they going to be working with their regional officers to be able to get a good list of the M\u0101ori who the Minister for Infrastructure will need to invite comments from?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EFurther, in terms of the M\u0101ori land owners of the project area, who defines what the project area is\u2014that is a question for the Minister\u2014and then who determines who the land owners are? In the Whang\u0101rei Harbour, for instance, we have very few whenua M\u0101ori land blocks on the harbour today, and that\u2019s because of the acts and omissions of the Crown in terms of alienation of our whenua, but that doesn\u2019t mean that the hap\u016B and the iwi k\u0101inga of those spaces should not be considered in terms of inviting this comment from the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s a question in terms of landlessness and who the M\u0101ori land owners in the project area are, and who determines all of this. Does it all come from the ministry and their Crown officials, and how big is the footprint of impact? When you think of Northport and you think of their footprint of impact, it\u2019s quite substantial. It\u2019s not just on the Ruak\u0101k\u0101, Poupouwhenua side; it\u2019s across the harbour. There\u2019s many of us, and, as we might recall, the tribes of Whang\u0101rei are currently in mediation with Northport because we\u2019ve been quite successful in pushing back on the proposal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EThese are some of my p\u0101tai to the Minister responsible for RMA Reform and the officials. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u00227ea3b9c590a941f697b12b151efb5321\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ea3b9c590a941f697b12b151efb5321\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I note that the officials are here, Ministers are changing, and it would, of course, be lovely to have some answers to the questions that I was making on the miscellaneous provisions, and prior to them. But now I\u2019m going to move to Schedule 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThis is the schedule about the expert panel. There\u2019s been a change in the Government Amendment Paper at clause 2, and this is the appointment of a panel convener. I\u2019ve got some changes to who should be on the panel in the first place, but there are going to be a lot of the panels\u2014there are 149 projects. I realise not all of them will happen at once; there\u2019s just not that many people available. But they have to be chosen\u2014these expert panels\u2014by someone. The question is: who is that person that chooses the expert panels? It was going to be: \u201C(1) The Minister must, after consulting the other relevant portfolio Ministers, appoint a former (including retired) Environment Judge or High Court Judge to be the panel convener\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EA former or current Environment Judge or High Court Judge is somebody who will know a lot about process and will know a lot about environmental laws. That is a high bar. You don\u2019t get judges all the time, but these are not the people who have to be on the panels; this is just the person appointing the panels. Now, I see in this amendment that it\u2019s changed, so that subclause (1) is that the Minister, after consultation, can appoint the Environment Judge, the High Court Judge, or\u2014and this is new\u2014\u201Ca senior lawyer with expertise in resource management.\u201D That is quite a dramatic change. I would like to ask for the justification of that, given that this is just one person\u2014it is just one position. There is one convener\u2014it\u2019s a panel convener. Why does this need to be widened to senior lawyers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThen, if we go further through, I note that there\u2019s clause 2A\u2014this looks to be new as well\u2014the \u201CAssociate panel conveners\u201D. Again, these can be a senior lawyer with expertise in resource management. Then, at clause 3, there is the \u201CMembership of panels\u201D. These panels can be up to four people who make up the panel. We\u2019re very interested in the membership of these panels. We have an Amendment Paper, No. 136, in the name of the Hon Dr Duncan Webb. That is around who can chair the panels, which is at clause 4. I\u2019m sure there are some other submissions, some other amendments as well, about the make-up of those panels and what the knowledge has to be that\u2019s included in clause 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EAt clause 4, there is a bit about who the chairperson of the panel is. This is very important, because 149 projects have to be of regional or national significance. They are big projects\u2014we\u2019ve seen that in the schedule, and other members may want to talk some more about those projects in Schedule 2. These are big things that would normally go to an Environment Court process or a direct referral process. But here, in clause 4, the chairperson of a panel may be a suitably qualified lawyer or planner with experience in relevant law to be the chairperson of a panel. You don\u2019t have to be a lawyer or a senior lawyer or a retired judge to be the chairperson of a panel; you can be a planner. And all my aroha to planners, who are wonderful, wonderful people. They are not the same as a very senior lawyer, and they are not the same as a judge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThat is why we have that amendment to make that change. These are big, serious applications that are going to affect various companies a lot with the decisions. There\u2019s going to be big private gain from those, and there could be very significant environmental effects that would not otherwise be allowed under existing law, and the decision makers can be chaired by a planner rather than a lawyer or judge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6d18a1fa49b4624b094db6673000232\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6d18a1fa49b4624b094db6673000232\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Earlier, I\u2019ve been engaged with the Minister responsible for RMA Reform in terms of some of the work in terms of clause 19. I want to sort of jump into, I guess, the schedule of projects, because it talks about\u2014and I\u2019d ask the Minister in terms of some comment or reflection. The Minister invites comments in clause 19(2B), \u201Ca local authority must provide comments advising \u2026 applications that have been lodged with the local authority that would be competing applications\u201D, etc., and it goes on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EAs we look through Schedule 2, we see that there is a huge number of projects that are not only private but there are a lot of council projects. I\u2019ve got a few questions around this, because I do see that Auckland Transport is in there and there are several\u2014in fact, there are three that I can see from Auckland Transport. There\u2019s the airport to Botany bus rapid transit; there\u2019s the Auckland level crossings removals\u2014that\u2019s a shame; and there\u2019s the Papakura to Pukekohe route protection for track, which had been mentioned.  Obviously, this Government has announced some changes in Auckland in terms of Auckland Transport and how it will be managed. I just wonder if there are any implications, in terms of Schedule 2, with Auckland Transport around the announcements that I think were made last week. Are there any issues with that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ESecondly, I just want to look\u2014for example, Ashburton District Council has an application and, as we move our way through, there are a number of local authorities that are here, like the Far North District Council. They\u2019ve got plans in terms of the Kaikohe waste-water treatment plant renewal. When we look at this, in terms of the process which we have here, how does the council offer comment when its projects that actually they are the stakeholders in or projects that they are supportive of? In many ways, is there conflict there? We understand that and we\u2019re grateful that local authorities can participate\u2014one of the few that can\u2014but how does that work? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ESo, firstly, around Auckland Transport, does it change anything with the announcement the Government has made around Auckland Transport in their management or leadership system? Secondly, in terms of local authorities which are in here, is there a conflict that they\u2019re actually having to provide advice to the Minister in this space? I\u2019ve got more to come, but those are a couple of questions just at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022 data-id=\u002202834a926cda4764bf216d23ea596c22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202834a926cda4764bf216d23ea596c22\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ll just wait for my mike\u2014thank you. I would like to focus in on what was clause 16, and this was about consultation requirements, but it\u2019s more an explanation about the changes between the bill as we knew it as of yesterday and then the Government\u2019s Amendment Paper 238, which, essentially, deletes consultation requirements for referral applications. Now, I assume that these are covered elsewhere, but I have a number of questions about them. I\u2019m really keen to hear from the Minister responsible for RMA Reform what has happened to this clause, so I can better direct the rest of my questions on that. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u00228081a24c73d042f0af83010a279987c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228081a24c73d042f0af83010a279987c8\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E I share my colleague\u2019s frustration that we are not getting any answers from Ministers. I\u2019d remind you\u2014and I will go back to them if I need to\u2014of my questions on new clause 24C: what does it mean; is it opening things up\u2014my questions around appeals\u2014who has standing to make an appeal; the time provisions around judicial review; the hearing panel issues that were raising costs for iwi and other groups. These are all things that have not been answered, by my count.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow I will move to Schedule 4 and clause 12, which is \u201CCriteria and other matters for assessment of consent application\u201D. If we look at Schedule 4\u2014we were looking at Schedule 3 before which was about those panels\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251d7e6ebfe524745a496ba338868b5d5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Which schedule?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226aa513b14f274ae58315cfe7adb5c27f\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bcb64f3b17f4339a24de22fe2a4fee8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Schedule 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022913bae9f1ecd406b8577b036c6a9555a\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Schedule 4, yes. Schedule 4 is \u201CApprovals relating to Resource Management Act 1991\u201D. There\u2019s a number of schedules here, and they relate to the different specified Acts; they relate to the different pieces of legislation which this bill, as a one-stop shop, can give approvals for. They are all important, but this one is in relation to the Resource Management Act, and at clause 12\u2014it\u2019s a very important clause for a number of reasons, because it starts with and it relates back to section 24W\u2014\u201Cwhen considering a consent application, including conditions \u2026 the panel must take into account, giving the greatest weight to paragraph (a)\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, what is that greatest weight? Oh, \u201Cthe purpose of this Act\u201D is the greatest weight.  So I have an Amendment Paper in my name, No. 137, to change that \u201Cmust take into account, giving the greatest weight to paragraph (a)\u201D by deleting \u201Cgiving the greatest weight\u201D. It fixes a major problem with the bill if you get rid of giving the greatest weight to the purpose of the Act, because as we\u2019ve already traversed in Part 1, the purpose of this Act doesn\u2019t mention the environment. Therefore, the purpose of this fast-track bill is in direct conflict with the purpose of the Resource Management Act, which is for sustainable management. The Minister has already refused an amendment to clause 3 to include sustainable management, so that\u2019s not in there. My question is, then, would the Minister responsible for RMA Reform consider removing \u201Cgiving the greatest weight\u201D in clause 12, as suggested by my Amendment Paper 137?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThen, interestingly, clause 12 goes on to the provisions of Parts 2, 3, 6, and 8 to 10 of the Resource Management Act, and the relevant provisions of any other legislation. It doesn\u2019t include everything in the Resource Management Act. It does include Part 2; Part 2 of the Resource Management Act is the purpose clause. Now there\u2019s been an insertion in this Government Amendment Paper\u2014the big Amendment Paper No. 238\u2014to add Part 3. That seems like a good idea. I would ask the Minister why Part 3 has been added, why it wasn\u2019t there before, and why it\u2019s not all of the provisions of the Resource Management Act that are included in clause 12(1)(b).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThen there is an \u201Cto avoid doubt\u201D provision at clause 12(2)(c), which is new, and it says, \u201Cto avoid doubt, for the purposes of subclause (1)(b), when taking into account section 104(1)(c) of the Resource Management Act \u2026 any Mana Whakahono \u0101 Rohe or joint management agreement that is relevant to the approval is a relevant matter.\u201D I presume that that is a clarification, but I want to know why it\u2019s needed\u2014why is that specific reference needed? Why did officials feel that that was needed in this change, and what else is missing from the Resource Management Act in clause 12? Those are some questions on Schedule 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u00220845a2adfdf643baaeb1e86a7cedbe01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220845a2adfdf643baaeb1e86a7cedbe01\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Apologies for the swap-over with Minister Grigg earlier on. As we know, this kaupapa, this proposed legislation, is all around ensuring the expedited delivery of projects of national and regional importance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EJust in response to various questions that have been proffered by my erudite colleagues throughout the Chamber: yes, in relation to a senior lawyer being able to be the convener, we are cognisant of the width and depth of people who are equipped with the procedural expertise and the skills and the knowledge to conduct panels for these projects of national and regional significance. As a result, the proposed amendment will encompass a broader and wider group of individuals with that relevant expertise to conduct a panel of these matters of consequence. There are resourcing constraints across the motu in relation to panels of this nature and of this consequence\u2014hence why we\u2019ve brought in that group by way of the amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EIn relation to those that may be able to contribute to the panel\u2019s consideration of a variety of applications that will present themselves, yes, the panel does have some discretion to ask organisations, people, NGOs, Infrastructure New Zealand, and a wide range of organisations with relevant insights and expertise to better inform the panel of their decision making and inform the panel as to what considerations\u2014and perhaps even the appropriate conditions\u2014in the decision-making process, knowing, of course, that many of the challenges that will be presented to the panel will be different in nature to many of the various applications submitted by way of the previous fast-track consenting arrangements that were launched and led out by the then Minister Parker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003ETo the questions around iwi and hap\u016B participation, it\u2019s my great privilege to hear that hanga k\u0101rangirangi [provoking] comment. That actually went down really well, especially at this time of the day. We are very aware of the need to ensure Treaty settlements are upheld and the obligations and commitments that go with that. I look forward to a report, in due course, around the extent and the breadth and depth of those settlements that are held by many agencies throughout the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThe other item I\u2019d like to just acknowledge is that my understanding and, certainly, expectation is the relevant agencies that will be assisting panels and Ministers will contribute to clarity of identification of the iwi and hap\u016B groups and any other authorities and organisations that should be engaged by way of clause 14AAA. To the question from my colleague Ms Lyndon, I expect that there\u2019ll be quite extensive engagement through the agencies to the referring Minister about the appropriate groups, entities, and organisations that should be part and parcel of that process, which ultimately will result in a report that is considered by the Minister for M\u0101ori Crown Relations and the Minister for M\u0101ori Development, whoever he or she may be at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EIn relation to clause 16, essentially the effect or the intent of that by way of Parliamentary Counsel Office redrafting is that that provision has been channelled to clauses 14AAA and 14AAB.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThere was a question in relation to Auckland Transport and wonderful places, especially if you\u2019re trying to catch the bus on time from \u014Cr\u0101kau to town. The councils that will be experiencing separation between functions, ultimately, will work out\u2014and the expectation is that they will work out and manage any separations themselves. We\u2019ll leave them to their devices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of other items that were raised and, again, excuse me because I just arrived while some of the questions were being asked. Just going through this\u2014oh, that\u2019s right, Schedule 2. It\u2019s wonderful to see the amount of iwi-led and partnered projects. Certainly, my take on those projects that are currently on that relevant schedule is that there are over 20 projects within the 149 identified on the documents today that are either iwi or M\u0101ori-led or partnered. That to me really underpins the support from many iwi and M\u0101ori organisations to participate in the fast-track process and to actually expedite their economic aspirations, which consequentially will contribute to the social emancipation of many of their own iwi members and onus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EWhether or not that\u2019s the Rangitopuni project out there beyond the rohe of my whanaunga, Mr Halbert, beyond Riverhead there, or the Hananui aquaculture project down at the bottom of Te Wai Pounamu, or even the Arahura papak\u0101inga project in the beautiful Tai Poutini, on the West Coast, adjacent to the Arahura Marae, what we see is that there is an absolute intention from iwi and M\u0101ori organisations to participate in the fast-track process and to continue to support for that channel to be open to them to participate\u2014and, might I add, the Ruakura Tuumata project, which is a residential and commercial development laid out by the phenomenal Tainui Group Holdings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThere certainly is an intention to ensure that there is a one-stop shop for projects of national and regional significance, and so much so that the iwi and M\u0101ori organisations involved in applying for this process and through this process are right behind us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EFinally, there is a final comment\u2014actually, I think I\u2019ll just take a break for now, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022 data-id=\u0022fffb376f46614206a377b390a7b37f07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fffb376f46614206a377b390a7b37f07\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s wonderful to hear from the Minister of Conservation and some of his whakaaro in reply to some of our contributions. I\u2019m wanting to explore a little bit about what has been shared thus far, considering the reporting on Treaty settlements and other obligations in clause 19A. It\u2019s great to see a comprehensive list of what would be included in the report. It\u2019s good to see that a range of Crown legislation, of different provisions in relation to Treaty settlements\u2014hey, the Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Act is mentioned in there again, but, of course, very few of us may ever achieve that goal. But then you\u2019ve got rohe moana, you\u2019ve got also the provisions for those with Mana Whakahono \u0101 Rohe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EI\u2019m wondering, though, in terms of reporting, because this is for Te Arawhiti M\u0101ori Development and those decision-making Ministers: will there be any provision to provide a cultural landscape report in terms of these projects and the rohe that they are coming into? I ask that because there\u2019s a story in each of the areas that the projects will land, and if they have public good or a public outcome, if they are something of regional and national significance, would it not be good for the Government, for the agencies themselves, to have an understanding of the layers of interest, but also in terms of some of the acts and omissions of the Crown that led to alienation in those spaces?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EWe cannot think that the iwi k\u0101inga in those areas, just because they might have signed a settlement, have not had an element of loss. What is the documenting around that space, but also what is the contemporary layering of interests? I use the words \u201Clayers\u201D of interest, because the Minister is here with us now; he knows that there are layers of interest amongst iwi M\u0101ori, amongst hap\u016B, and amongst tribes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EGoing again to those who have not settled, those tribes who have maybe had Waitangi Tribunal reports that have been produced\u2014and I\u2019m going to the North, the Great North, Whang\u0101rei. Mapping out again: we\u2019ve got six projects out of the 11 in Tai Tokerau in Whang\u0101rei Harbour. We have one tribe which is settled in that area, which is Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga, Pakikaikutu. We have two Mana Whakahono \u0101 Rohe agreements, Patuharakeke and Te Parawhau. We have no customary marine title, marine and coastal area (takutai moana) rights that have been proved, because we\u2019ve just finished two rounds of hearings and we might have to go back to the High Court again. We have rohe moana also in the area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s great to hear the emphasis on settlement, but when there are no settlements in the rohe, will the report reflect on the large database of evidence that the Waitangi Tribunal Te Paparahi o Te Raki has compiled on the story of the Whang\u0101rei Harbour? I can even provide some references to quite a few reports, actually, on Whang\u0101rei Harbour. There\u2019s an opportunity there to really understand the nature of the space where the project will be located, but also some of the impacts to date. To the deciding Minister: will those reports, knowing that it will be beyond just Treaty settlements and all of those compliance issues, also go into the background of the proposals, because some of these proposals that will come up might have already been through processes in the past? Will it reflect on Environment Court hearings, on commissioner hearings? Will it provide a whakapapa of the company or the agency or the group that is the applicant, and provide full expression of the journey travelled for that project? I think, in terms of the general public of New Zealand, it would be great for us to review these reports, but also for the deciding Ministers to have all the information in front of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s go to McCallum Bros, for instance\u2014you know, talk about the uncles. They have been in P\u0101kiri for nearly 80 years, sandmining there, and they just recently lost this year in the Environment Court, so they\u2019ve turned their attention to the Bream Bay area. Will the report that comes before the deciding Ministers look at the whakapapa of the entity, of the company that is applying for the consent, for the projects, and then also look at their track record in terms of environmental impact? You don\u2019t get declined in the Environment Court for no reason. Those are just some questions I\u2019d like to ask. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u00220f2ba53d9607464caaf741470828d645\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f2ba53d9607464caaf741470828d645\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Just to remind the Minister of Conservation of some unanswered questions\u2014one\u2019s going back to clause 24C and the amendments on Amendment Paper 238 and whether that widens up who can be applicants, really. Also, to the appeal provisions, I don\u2019t think I heard in his last contribution any reference to that strikeout of clause 26(1)(e) and the time limits to judicial review. I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve heard anything, either, on costs being recouped by the various different M\u0101ori organisations that we were just hearing about in that last contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EContinuing on to Schedule 4, there\u2019s more changes on this Amendment Paper that have quite a lot to do with freshwater fisheries activities, and I was wondering why those changes are made, and they come up in another schedule, as well. That would be a useful thing to know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EAgain, noting my amendment on Amendment Paper 137, in clause 16 of Schedule 4\u2014clause 16 is the \u201CPanel to make aquaculture decision\u201D. It says, again, that we\u2019ve got this hierarchy, at subclause (3): \u201CIn making an aquaculture decision, the panel must\u2014\u2026 take into account, giving the greatest weight to subparagraph (i), [which is] the purpose of this Act; and [then] sections 8 to 10 and 186GB(1) and (2) of the Fisheries Act\u201D. Again, it\u2019s trying to change that and giving the greatest weight to the purpose to this Act being to facilitate projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThen, a similar change is recommended in Schedule 5 on Amendment Paper 238. Schedule 5 moves on from the Resource Management Act, which was Schedule 4, and goes into approvals relating to the Conservation Act, the Reserves Act, and the Wildlife Act and the National Parks Act. There is a change here in this big Government Amendment Paper to include the Wildlife Act and the National Parks Act in the heading to Schedule 5. It would be useful if the Minister could tell us why that is and how it has repercussions for the rest of the bill, as well; that would be useful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000866\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThen, again, going back to my Amendment Paper 137, it again goes to this greatest weight clause. At clause 5, \u201CCriteria for assessment of application for concession\u201D, again, it says that the greatest weight must go to \u201Cthe purpose of this Act\u201D. That, of course, is very different from the purpose of the Conservation Act, which is all about conservation, and is really in direct conflict. Then we see, in those criteria, reference to the Wildlife Act have been included by Amendment Paper 238, and the National Parks Act as well. That would be useful to have more information on why these changes have been made and what they mean.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000867\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EAt clause 5(1)(a)(x) of Schedule 5\u2014that has been deleted by Amendment Paper 137, which is interesting. We have an Amendment Paper 143, in the name of Priyanca Radhakrishnan, and that was to add an amendment after subparagraph (x), which was really to give weight to management plans and reserve management plans and to change the weighting of those important plans that are very important under this underlying legislation, to be a must, so they \u201Cmust\u201D be considered rather than \u201Cmay\u201D be considered. At the moment, they fall under paragraph (b) rather than paragraph (e). This seems to be a strangeness, given the importance in those legislative regimes of those planning documents\u2014that they\u2019d just be a \u201Cmay\u201D consideration, rather than a \u201Cmust\u201D consideration. There is an amendment in Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s name there at Amendment Paper 143 for that change, as well. I will sit down now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u0022ade96b8434164927b74625c954ee80ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ade96b8434164927b74625c954ee80ca\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, it\u2019s actually my first opportunity to contribute to this Fast-track Approvals Bill debate, although I have been following along for the contributions that others have made. I just wanted to ask some questions of the Minister of Conservation; I won\u2019t take too long. I wanted to go to Schedule 4, and wanted to ask a few different questions in this schedule and I\u2019ll let you know the numbers of the specific clauses, and I\u2019d be grateful if the Minister could answer them in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThe first question I have is really in relation to Schedule 4, clause 4 when it looks at the environmental effects, and there\u2019s a number of things listed there. The question I had was in relation to clause 4(f), the unreasonable emission of noise. I wondered if the Minister had a barometer for what that would include and whether he would consider any noise to be covered within environmental effects as an alternative, because, of course, reasonableness, as a question of policy, a question of opinion\u2014and it would seem to me that just including the emission of noise would be a better way of ensuring that environmental impacts were fully considered. That\u2019s my first question: whether the Minister would consider looking at that or has considered it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThe next question I have is in relation to Schedule 4, clause 6(2), and that goes through the required documents that are necessary for that particular clause, for the information required in application for a certificate of compliance. It\u2019s quite an interesting list, there, of the documents that are required and I just wanted to know whether any other documents could perhaps be necessary in relation to that particular provision, whether he thought any other helpful documents could be included that could provide more information when they are looking for a certificate of compliance, because they do seem quite specific, but also not entirely fulsome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThe next question I have is in relation to clause 10, still in Schedule 4, which looks at the chief executive in relation to an aquaculture decision, and appreciate the comments made by my colleague Rachel Brooking when she talked about some of the important determinations that are needed when looking at aquaculture decisions. The question I had, really, was a process question around the chief executive\u2019s actions in relation to when they\u00A0receive information, specifically in relation to clause\u00A010, the requirement to do that within five working days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EIf we then move to clause 11, it\u2019s a very complicated process that the chief executive has to go to in order to prioritise the different decisions that they have. First\u00A0of all, it states that they have to be made in the order that they are received and that seems relatively reasonable, but then, if there\u2019s more than one on the same day, it has to be determined which was first in that day, and that also seems reasonable. Then, in subclauses (3) and (4), there are additional determinations that need to be made by the chief executive in relation to the priorities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThat seems to be, if the chief executive was to receive a number of recommendations on the same day, not a very fast process to go through, which seemed to be quite contrary to the purpose of the bill which I have looked at. I did look at the Environment Committee report, and I did look at the fact that the speed was of the essence, really, with this bill, and the comments made by the other select committee members that said maybe the environmental considerations should be placed higher within the purpose were not agreed by the Environment Committee as a majority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EObviously that\u2019s not necessarily the main objective here but I just wondered whether clause 11 is really the most efficient way to draft a procedure that the chief executive will have to follow, because it seems to me to be quite arduous. Of course, that\u2019s not the end of the story and I\u2019m sure other members will have contributions to make in relation to the further procedures relating to the aquaculture decision-making process. I know there\u2019s further decisions that have to be made in relation to clause 16 and also in Schedule 4 that make it further complicated. However, I\u2019ll leave my questions there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u002239a2d3bc5de2456596205b4056f5a11d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000875\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239a2d3bc5de2456596205b4056f5a11d\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Again, it\u2019s absolutely wonderful to see the genuine interest in the catalysing and accelerating of M\u0101ori economic development by way of the Fast-track Approvals Bill. I look at the applicants like Te Aup\u014Duri Fisheries team way up there in the far Far North\u2014not the far middle north, which sometimes I frequent, but the far Far North\u2014and their intention to create aquaculture employment, small to medium enterprise, and other opportunities not only for their people but actually for all the people of the Far North, that great place which I hope to visit later on this week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000876\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThere is an extensive opportunity for a very concise report by the responsible agency. This exemplifies, in my view, the commitment, ultimately, of the team behind the legislation to ensure that the settlement obligations and settlement commitments of Treaty bodies but also those other matters from other organisations, as set out in clause 19A(2)(i), where it is noted \u201Cany other M\u0101ori groups with relevant interests:\u201D\u2014whilst there has been an inquiry around the need for something of the nature of a cultural impact analysis or cultural impact assessment and the layers of interest that might go with any specific area, the subject of an application through this process, we can note that a cultural impact assessment is not a requirement. There may be applicants and project owners who want to undertake that by way of their own engagement with the local communities, and in some ways, in some people\u2019s minds, the mana whenua, but I often refer to that as the tangata whenua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000877\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThese projects that are led and partnered with M\u0101ori, they too might go through their own internal assessment of cultural impacts and cultural relevancies, but I expect that many of those will be hardwired into the planning that they undertake for their own projects and to the design and other features that might be accommodated within their applications\u2014for example, urban design that may be led out through the Mana Ahuriri Trust project around the Ahuriri Station, the Tauhara North No.2 Trust Solar Farm down there near Rotokawa, and a project like the Tara Road housing project out there near Mr Rutherford, out there by P\u0101p\u0101moa and Ng\u0101 P\u014Dtiki \u0101 Tamapahore.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000878\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EMy expectation is that there will be different horses for courses around how an applicant or a project owner may engage with the relevant post-settlement governance entities, but also any other groups, and they may be hap\u016B or they may be incorporations and trusts. They may even be at wh\u0101nau level, but there\u2019s provision for that, not only to engage but also to ensure that there is a very concise and deliberate report prepared by the responsible agency for the consideration of the Minister for M\u0101ori Development and the Minister for M\u0101ori Crown Relations, whoever she or he may be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000879\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EIn reference to previous compliance history\u2014that\u2019s clause 24C on Amendment Paper 238\u2014yes, the previous compliance history and also herstory of the relevant applicant and project owner is considered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000880\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003ECosts: there\u2019s been a lot of observation around costs and they do sometimes mount up in these sorts of processes. There are provisions in clauses 27F and 27H on Amendment Paper 238 to ensure that there will be a set cost contribution for groups. Some of those, I expect, will be around the engagement set out and throughout the proposed legislation with iwi. That cost contribution will be organised through the Environmental Protection Authority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000881\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThere were comments around the freshwater fisheries and the standard fisheries proposals, of course, part of the resource consent, but projects like dams that need a freshwater fisheries approval outside of the one-stop shop would cut against the grain of the intention of this Act, which is a one-stop shop. The upside is, of course, that the Director-General of Te Papa Atawhai, the Department of Conservation, will be expected to provide a report to the panel to help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000882\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThere is a variety of comments around the Wildlife Act and the National Parks Act being in the title of Schedule 5. Of course, the Wildlife Act, which generally comes within the purview of the Minister of Conservation, a quiet figure in the coalition Government, is to ensure that concessions can be given for wildlife refuges and wildlife management reserves. Certainly, there are some exclusions across the conservation estate that will be ineligible to be used as land for these types of projects, and those are well set out. The National Parks Act, of course, is in the title of Schedule 5 on Amendment Paper 238 to allow concessions for the limited electricity projects of clause 22DA.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000883\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThere was a question about clause 6(2) in Schedule 4 that was removed, but it\u2019s covered off, in our view, by clause 6(1)(g)\u2014\u201Cg\u201D for \u201Cgoat\u201D, and there\u2019s a lot of them on the conservation estate; please knock them off if you see them\u2014and, of course, the aquaculture decision process mirrors the existing MBC process, considering all the relevant interests. Happy to take some more questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022dfd60842c25a4a2b9daecdde8d5480c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000884\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dfd60842c25a4a2b9daecdde8d5480c7\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I have some specific questions for the Minister in the chair, the Hon Tama Potaka, around the panel convener and setting up the panels, which is clause 24GAA of Part 2 of this bill. Of course, Schedule 3 of the bill goes into far more detail around the membership of the panels and the way in which these are set up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000885\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIn particular, in Schedule 3, I have some questions around clause 3(1A), which specifies: \u201CBefore appointing the members of a panel, the panel convener may, but need not, consult\u2014(a) the Minister\u201D, and then, \u201C(b) if the panel is set up for a substantive application that seeks an approval described in section 24C(3)(h) (marine consent), the EPA.\u201D My question for the Minister is: this requirement to the\u2014well, it\u2019s not a requirement, before appointing the members of the panel, the convener \u201Cmay, but need not, consult\u2014the Minister\u201D. My question for the Minister is: what is the purpose of this? Obviously, this is not an area where the Minister is going to have decision-making power specified under the legislation, because \u201Cmay, but need not\u201D is also included in there. I\u2019m interested to hear from the Minister in the chair what the thinking is behind that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EAlso, to get some clarity from the Minister in the chair, what happens if the panel chair comes and says, \u201CWe\u2019re going to appoint X, Y, and Z people to this panel.\u201D and the Minister does have an issue with some of those appointments? What is the thinking that Ministers, where they\u2019ve been going through doing policy development\u2014what will be the consequence of a Minister raising some flags to officials, and what weight will that carry? Will that be documented? Will that be communicated? If so, how and where? Just really looking to get some understanding of the purpose of why that is there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000887\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll come back with some more questions around panels, but I am looking for some clarity on those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u002246750f62dabc4503a92ea1dc75ec9dc5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246750f62dabc4503a92ea1dc75ec9dc5\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to ask the Minister of Conservation to turn his attention to page 114 in the Amendment Paper, the first item at the top of the page\u2014the project name\u2019s \u201CAuckland level crossings removals project\u201D. That\u2019s been sponsored by Auckland Transport. The Minister may be aware that because of the City Rail Link increasing the frequency of services across the network so significantly\u2014something I think we all celebrate in this House\u2014one of the flow-on consequences is that it has implications for a number of communities around the network, because our old-fashioned rail network often has pedestrian crossings, often unsupported by safety enhancements like automated gates. This project is to, basically, in stages, remove and grade approximately 42 of those level crossings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI\u2019m interested in what advice the Minister has had in relation to this particular project in terms of the decision making and the implementation once this is passed into law and this project, effectively, gets its planning permission as a result of the fast track, because we recently had an experience in Swanson in my electorate in West Auckland, where Auckland Transport had been planning the closure of a pedestrian rail crossing really for the last two years as part of this very programme of closing crossings for safety reasons on the grounds that the increased frequency of train services would have exacerbated the safety risk. The community resisted vigorously because it would have, effectively, severed the community and made it significantly less walkable. A very large neighbourhood of people would have had to walk 45 minutes to get to the school and the shops on the other side of the railway line, instead of a 10-minute walk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000890\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ENow, the reason I raise this and ask this is that it\u2019s often the consenting process\u2014when you get a notified consent\u2014it\u2019s often only at that stage that the community becomes fully aware of a given project and has the time to digest the consequences that are a result of this project. They get into gear, they start to ask questions, they start to engage with the institution that\u2019s responsible\u2014in this case, Auckland Transport\u2014and that\u2019s when the rubber often hits the road. The local project in my electorate that I was just talking about is, in fact, part of this programme of 42 level crossings. As a result of a pretty stout local community campaign over nearly two years, Auckland Transport, to their credit, finally reviewed the project and said, \u201CWe got it wrong. We\u2019re going to listen to the community. We don\u2019t think that the marginal increase in train frequencies as a result of the City Rail Link is sufficient to justify closing this crossing.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000891\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EIn this case, it didn\u2019t have to get to a consenting process because there\u2019s a very good local MP and very good local councillors who took it up and advocated and supported the local community, but in many cases it actually is the consenting process. When you\u2019ve got a notified consent, that\u2019s when this process actually happens and projects get contested and interrogated by the community and their advocates and often their elected members. My question for the Minister is: in this instance, when is that going to happen? Because the community will no longer have a notified consent process where they get the opportunity to question and interrogate. The example that I\u2019ve been telling you about is a great example of the fact that organisations like Auckland Transport often get it wrong. These things are laden with judgment and subjectivity and shifting assumptions and variables, and it is often the rigour and the transparency that a notified consent process brings that actually allows much better decisions to be made. I ask the Minister to respond to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u002221dca6ec68a44e55bad08a341e1a9f94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000892\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221dca6ec68a44e55bad08a341e1a9f94\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Chair. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. I very much agree with the contribution from the previous member the Hon Phil Twyford.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI wanted to take this call to talk to my Amendment Paper 179, which proposes to move the following amendment to clause 22B. Currently, in clause 22B(2)(a), subparagraph (vii) refers to the criteria for assessing referral applications. In that clause 22B(2)(vii), it refers\u00A0to\u00A0\u201C[supporting] climate change mitigation, including the reduction or removal of greenhouse gas emissions:\u201D. That is no doubt an incredibly relevant thing to be considered. The Minister responsible for RMA Reform should consider whether the project will support climate change mitigation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000894\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EGiven the urgency of the climate crisis and a huge cross-party commitment we have in this Parliament to effective action on climate change, to meeting our commitments under the Paris Agreement, and to the zero carbon Act, I\u2019ve got an Amendment Paper that would add \u201Cinsert [subparagraph] (viia)\u201D, saying it \u201Cis consistent with New Zealand\u2019s emissions reduction targets under the Climate Change Response Act\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000895\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ENow, I think that\u2019s the absolute minimum that we should be considering, because it\u2019s not sufficient to consider whether or not it mitigates emissions in this process. We need to have, like, a specific commitment in the legislation for the Minister to assess whether it is consistent with the emissions reduction targets, because it could reduce emissions and it could not increase emissions. The way it\u2019s worded currently in the bill, and I believe in the amendment\u2014although I have to say I have to check the Government\u2019s Amendment Paper, because it\u2019s as big as the bill\u2014all that needs to be considered is what impact it would have, whether it would have an impact on mitigating emissions, but it\u2019s another step entirely to say that it is actually going to be consistent with our commitments for reducing emissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI\u2019m interested in hearing from the Minister in the chair, the Hon Tama Potaka, if he\u2019s able to comment on this, whether there\u2019s a reason why the wording isn\u2019t more specifically linking the consideration of our targets. Obviously, if the Government is interested in achieving emissions reduction targets, then a whole lot of things need to line up. We know that the carbon price in the emissions trading scheme alone is not sufficient to reduce emissions, that a number of infrastructure projects that are included in Schedule 2 will either have the potential to increase or to reduce emissions. If it is the case that there\u2019s no requirement to consider whether or not it\u2019s consistent with emissions reduction targets, then what is the process for ensuring that we\u2019re actually going to be consenting a bunch of projects that will actually reduce emissions and help us reach our targets as opposed to increase them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u0022778e2028a9e14780b9d6e2aa5b58aea5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000897\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022778e2028a9e14780b9d6e2aa5b58aea5\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you for the invitation again to stand and convey some responses and reflections on the various questions asked. I, of course, refer to the p\u0101tai around the panel convener may not need to consult the Minister for Infrastructure, and what if the Minister has issues? It\u2019s like Paddy Gower Has Issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000898\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThe first thing is that, originally, that was \u201Cmust\u201D consult the Minister, and now there\u2019s a bit of optionality that\u2019s been built into the proposed wording to \u201Cmay\u201D. Of course, the panel chairs\u2014well articulated by the member\u2014may have some issues with the proposed appointments to a panel, and it\u2019s pretty clear that the panel convener has a discretion to appoint members of the panel or otherwise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000899\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EI appreciate that comment that came from Te Atat\u016B Peninsula in relation to the Auckland light rail project\u2014thank you for that query. This legislation is different from the Resource Management Act in that it front-loads a lot of the info requirements to enable the applications to be processed a bit more quickly, without delays commonly experienced under the resource management legislation while further information is gathered or parties are involved, and, certainly, my experience of the Auckland train network is one that the types of projects that the member observed and mentioned often attract a lot of public interest. In that regard, the panel, I\u2019m sure, will not see itself as an omnipotent or an omniscient being, but, rather, one that considers many opinions. It can, of course, call a hearing if it chooses to do so, and also invite comments from many varied groups. It is one-stop shop legislation\u2014that\u2019s what we are absolutely committed to\u2014but it\u2019s good to hear of those previous experiences that the member has of democracy in action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000900\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EIn relation to the climate change matter, it\u2019s a critical, very important kaupapa that\u2019s confronting the entire globe, including this little part of paradise here in Aotearoa New Zealand. That\u2019s why we\u2019re so enthusiastic and energetic, not just over the jet planes in that box back there, but energetic around expediting renewable energy projects. Whether or not they\u2019re M\u0101ori-led\u2014Tauhara North No.2 solar farm, for example, but also\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000901\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229dbd28880d854e9fa8eb8932a2501232\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: What about the coalmines? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000902\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223df963a948b34eeeb2c339671d7c676c\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014well, I\u2019m not going to talk about all the coal imported from Indonesia right now\u2014there are even the solar farms in Bunnythorpe. I don\u2019t know if any of you have been to Bunnythorpe lately, but it\u2019s got the most unusual railway crossing that goes straight on to a roundabout. There is no crossing like Bunnythorpe. If those were in Auckland, I say to the member for Te Atat\u016B, they would cause absolute chaos. There is a substation down there in Bunnythorpe, and I imagine that the solar farm down there will link into that substation quite nicely\u2014along with one of my home digs, Marton, which will also have the more southern links of M\u014Dkai P\u0101tea, which, as Mr Halbert knows, is also going to have a solar farm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000903\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EAgain, thank you, Madam Chair, for the opportunity. I look forward to reconvening with you and others this evening at 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022904ed10999394051a200cba694dcc5ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000904\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022904ed10999394051a200cba694dcc5ca\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to Minister Potaka, who was in the chair, for partially answering my questions around the membership of panels, which is covered off in Schedule 3 of this bill. I think that the Minister who answered from the chair gave us cause for more questions. He said that at the Environment Committee, it was changed from the panel convener \u201Cmust\u201D\u2014\u201Cmust\u201D\u2014consult with the Minister for Infrastructure around decisions of who\u2019s going to be appointed to panels, and that this was changed at select committee to \u201Cmay\u201D, but need not, consult.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000905\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI want to understand from the Minister of Conservation how they see that as being an important part of how these panels are going to operate and these decisions are going to be. I\u2019m still waiting to understand what happens, given the way the clause is now currently worded in the schedule, if a Minister does have some issues with the panel members who are being appointed. That\u2019s a question that is still outstanding that the Minister in the chair didn\u2019t address. What will happen with that information? Will it be made public anywhere? What is the purpose of it is really what we\u2019re trying to understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000906\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhat I also want to move on to, then, is some of the provisions around memberships of panels, particularly as it relates to local authorities, and there\u2019s a lot of detail in Schedule 3 about how it is and when it is and who it is that local bodies get to appoint to these panels. In clause 3, it says that \u201CThe membership of a panel must include 1 person nominated by the relevant local [authority].\u201D, \u201CThe person nominated by the relevant local authorities may, but need not, be an elected member of any of the local authorities.\u201D, and \u201CIf the relevant local authorities nominate more than 1 person for appointment as a panel member, the panel convener must decide which \u2026 of [these] nominees is to be appointed as a panel member.\u201D We can see that there\u2019s a lot going on in terms of selection around that. If it is not an elected member of a local authority, then who? Who is it that the Government is envisioning that local authorities will be appointing to these panels who are making some really important decisions? Just to get some clarity from the Minister there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000907\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThen, in clause 3(6)(a) through to clause 3(6)(e), it goes through what happens: \u201CDespite the limit specified on the membership by subclause (1), that number may be exceeded (including by the appointment of more than 1 person \u2026 at the discretion of the panel convener, if warranted by, or required to accommodate,\u2014\u201D and there\u2019s a very subjective set of criteria area around when it is that that limit can be exceeded. One of the things that it goes through is \u201Cthe circumstances unique to a particular district or region; \u2026 the number of applications that have to be considered in that particular district or region; \u2026 the nature and scale of the application under consideration; \u2026 matters unique to any relevant iwi participation legislation; \u2026 the collective knowledge and experience needed under clause 7(1A).\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EOne of the things that we\u2019re really interested to know from a process point of view is whether or not there is an application that has previously been turned down by the Environment Court, the High Court, or, indeed, the Supreme Court\u2014that these are applications that have already been overturned and have really only had life breathed into by virtue of being included in the schedule of this bill. Is that something that the Minister is envisioning might require more people from the local authority, and therefore the local community, to have input into those decisions where it is seeking to overturn what have already been quite longstanding decisions and the communities have been heavily involved often in the coming to that decision and some of the activism that led them to that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000909\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI think that\u2019s an important point for the Minister to answer to us on the make-up of those panels, added to the outstanding questions around the interaction between the Minister for Infrastructure and the convener of the panel, the chair of the panel, and whether that\u2019s a two-way street\u2014something I didn\u2019t ask before. Does the Minister and, therefore, the Government have the ability to put up names to the convener of the panel in terms of people that they would like appointed to it, or is it that the convener of the panel must go to the Minister with a completed list of names? These are all things that are important for us to understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00222bb2411acc654099828585077885800d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222bb2411acc654099828585077885800d\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I would like to specifically ask some questions of the Minister responsible for RMA Reform about a project in Lower Hutt which he\u2019ll be familiar with, considering he\u2019s the local MP there. It\u2019s one very close to my home and to where my children have grown up. It\u2019s the proposal for Winstone Aggregates, a division of Fletcher Concrete and Infrastructure, to be able to establish a new overburden disposal area adjacent to the existing quarry to enable the extraction of approximately 20 million cubic metres of aggregate, including land exchange with the Department of Conservation, earthworks, and establishing new access roads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000911\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI would particularly like to understand\u2014the local Hill Road Community Group would also like to know\u2014what impacts that would have on the Belmont Stream, which is a tributary to the Hutt River in which kids swim\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000912\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3c7261b17ea45cda258110af5a15c84\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just ask the member\u2014we\u2019re on Part 2, around process, so if these questions are around the process of what happens with the project, it\u2019s OK to use the project for an example, but I\u2019d like you to stick to what is around the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000913\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268d678e48da1427bbf924d710b9ec197\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Community consultation is what I was asking. What engagement, I would like to know from the Minister, has he undertaken or proposes to undertake to inform a community that this will directly impact on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000914\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWe have a natural environment here that is going to be substantially impacted by 20 million cubic metres of aggregate being extracted. From what I have understood in my communications since seeing this, there\u2019s been no engagement with community groups and also those groups that are very active in terms of conservation in the area. There are many people tuning in who would really like to understand: what is the process for informing the community? What is the process for assessing the risks to their natural environment? What is the process for assessing the impacts on the natural environment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIn particular, what is the land exchange with the Department of Conservation that has occurred? That is of particular concern to the community, because they have not been informed at all about the land exchange that has occurred with the Department of Conservation, and it would be very interesting to understand what other correspondence or process has gone on for public notification for Department of Conservation land to be used to extract approximately 20 million cubic metres of aggregate from in and around that area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000916\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI would just like to ask further, if there has been no process of community engagement to date, if the Minister could tell us what his process is to inform the community of this fast-tracked process, and what ability they have to be able to have some say in a significant local\u00A0project which they have previously had absolutely no knowledge of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a93cda41957c4f8c83a72d4decc4741c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000917\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a93cda41957c4f8c83a72d4decc4741c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to take a call from the Hon Rachel Brooking, but I also do want to note that we\u2019ve had lots of questions around consultation with communities. I want new and specific things. For example, some of the clauses that have been referred to in the Hon Dr Megan Woods\u2019 questions have been relative to the\u00A0parts of the bill. Before I take the next call, I just want to see that we are in Part 2; we are referring to questions. We\u2019re not solely talking about projects; we are solely asking about the processes and the parts in Part 2 here. It doesn\u2019t preclude talking about a project as an example.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u002286291d50efd84525ae817efcb7e9d1c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000918\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286291d50efd84525ae817efcb7e9d1c1\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Look, the previous Minister in the chair, the Hon Tama Potaka, I think, part-answered my question that I\u2019ve asked a couple of times now about clause 24C. There\u2019s a number of amendments in the Minister\u2019s Amendment Paper to clause 24C. Clause 24C is the \u201CAuthorised person may lodge substantive application for approvals\u201D. The Minister in the chair mentioned something about looking at, I think he said, previous behaviour, but that is not my question about clause 24C.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000919\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EMy question about clause 24C is: under subclause (3), it says \u201CA substantive application may seek 1 or more of the following matters (the approvals):\u201D, and then there\u2019s a list of things, but the list has been extended by this Amendment Paper. There\u2019s a number of things. There\u2019s a new clause 24AAA and there\u2019s a new clause 24D, but there is a clause crossed out as well. There\u2019s a new clause 24GA and there\u2019s a new clause 24K. My question, which I have now asked a few times, is: is the intent of these changes to clause 24C to widen up who can make applications for these approvals? Is that what these changes are doing? That\u2019s clause 24C.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000920\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI appreciate that some of the other questions were answered, so I\u2019m now going to go back to Schedule 5 and note again the criteria for the panel in Schedule 5, which is the schedule for the wildlife conservation\u2014oh, I might have said that one already, sorry. That was that the panel gives the greatest weight to the purpose of the Act at clause 17D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000921\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWould the Minister responsible for RMA Reform consider my amendment to delete \u201Cgiving the greatest weight\u201D? Same at Schedule 5, later on at clause 26, which is the \u201CCriteria for assessment of application for amendment or revocation of conservation covenant\u201D. Again, at subclause (1), it says to give the greatest weight to the purpose of\u00A0the\u00A0Act. I have Amendment Paper 137 to delete \u201Cthe greatest weight\u201D; same in Schedule\u00A06, \u201CApprovals relating to Wildlife Act\u201D at clause 1C and\u2014I will go through this\u00A0quickly\u2014in Schedule 7 at clause 2C(1).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000922\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThen I come to Schedule 8, which is \u201CApprovals relating to complex freshwater fisheries activities\u201D. This all seems to be new. It\u2019s a new schedule. It\u2019s all underlined in the Minister\u2019s amendment. Where has this come from? Why is it all underlined? Has it been moved from somewhere else or is it a new thing? If it\u2019s new, why? Again, at clause\u00A05,\u00A0would he consider removing \u201Cgiving the greatest weight\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000923\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ESkipping on to Schedule 9, that same point can be made at clause 9. Again, Schedule 10 is Crown Minerals Act, and we have my Amendment Paper 137 applying to clause 3A(1) and 4A(1). Then, later on in Schedule 10, in Part 2, we have \u201CMining permits\u201D. Again\u2014this is all underlined\u2014it has the greatest weight clause at 14(1). Again, is this all new or has it been moved from some other part of the bill relating to these mining permits? If the Minister could answer that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000924\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThen, finally in this contribution, I would like to touch on Schedule 11, which is \u201CModifications to process under Public Works Act 1981 to take or deal with land\u201D. There were some changes made in the select committee around clause 3, which I have in Amendment Paper 138\u2014or we have an amendment\u2014whose name is it in? Let me look. I think it is in my name, No. 138, and that is to change the wording of the title and the substance of clause 3, so that where it says the court \u201Cmust\u201D accept the determination of a panel about consideration of alternative sites, that changes to \u201Cmay\u201D in both the title and in clause 3(1). That is because it seems that these changes to Schedule 1, which are different from the bill as introduced, are really taking away the rights of people that they would normally have under the Public Works Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022 data-id=\u00228f948ad1bf1a4e95806ca66b3cb773cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f948ad1bf1a4e95806ca66b3cb773cc\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair; ng\u0101 mihi. With the Minister responsible for RMA Reform in the chair, this is a great opportunity for me to ask some detailed questions in relation to the process after Ministers receive referral applications.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000926\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to point to my Amendment Paper 166, where it talks to clause 18A, which is found on page 30. What we have right now is the process for receiving a referral application and then how the Minister for Infrastructure and the agency responsible will consider the application. It is my proposal in my Amendment Paper that clause 18A is changed, where we insert paragraph (aa): \u201Cconsider the outcomes of any consultation undertaken with affected parties; and\u201D. The considering of the consultation with affected parties and the outcomes of it really points to the fact that the hui is really important, as are the contents of the hui and the discussions undertaken within that space by the responsible agency or whoever, whoever the responsible people are\u2014for the Minister to know the content of those discussions to inform decision making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000927\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EFurther, I want to pull back a little bit around this because the previous Minister that we had in the chair, the Hon Tama Potaka, spoke to the fact that there was no CVA, or cultural values assessment, really compulsory within the fast track. That might be an optional extra, but for tangata whenua at place, those types of reports are really important to show the decision makers, which would be the Minister making the decisions on these things, around the cultural effects and the cultural impacts at place. They are very important to the iwi k\u0101inga to tell the story around what are the cultural values of the site of the proposed activity at the location, and potential impacts on the cultural values for the peoples of the land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000928\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EIt is through my amendment that we propose to make the change to have a fulsome discussion so that all the information can be presented. We\u2019ve heard tonight that it is the Environmental Protection Authority who will have responsibility even around cost recovery, which is really good to hear. All of these things are really wrapped up in terms of the story that our Minister needs to hear in terms of receiving those referral applications and the fulsome reporting that would be needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000929\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EOne further question I\u2019d like to ask the Minister is in terms of readiness for implementation in relation to the receiving of the applications\u2014our ministries, whichever group or agency is responsible at place for the application. Will they have the necessary teams established and ready to go in terms of capacity and then also the technical capability? Will there be technical leads in terms of iwi M\u0101ori engagement established within the teams in order to report back to the Minister in the referral application process so that the reporting can be as broad and as fulsome as possible? I raise this because good decision-making requires a full examination of the information at hand, and without the relevant reports like a CVA, a cultural values assessment, or a CIA, a cultural impact assessment, how does the Minister truly know what is important to the people of the land or the people of the sea, the people of that space which we call the hau k\u0101inga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000930\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EThat is one proposition that we would like to ask in terms of the amendment that I\u2019ve proposed, but also, what is the capacity, the capability, the readiness of each of our agencies to step up into this space knowing that it\u2019s going to come at pace, and the ability for them to be able to lead and guide and provide the information relevant, particularly around iwi M\u0101ori, and grab\u2014or, well, facilitate; yeah, facilitate the necessary reports to be able to provide that fulsome picture to the deciding Ministers in terms of the applications? Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022c16b46caec2c407d90b63ab13a41c5ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000931\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c16b46caec2c407d90b63ab13a41c5ec\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019ll very briefly deal with a few of the issues raised in the last few contributions. In terms of the Hon Megan Woods\u2019 question around ministerial involvement in the appointment of panels, the Minister for Infrastructure doesn\u2019t appoint the panel members; the panel convener appoints the members of the panel. The Minister appoints the panel convener, but the panel convener appoints the panel members, and there\u2019s a range of criteria under the bill to consider.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000932\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESecondly, in relation to the Hon Ginny Andersen\u2019s question around Winstone Aggregates\u2019 proposal, I\u2019m just going to maintain the stance I\u2019ve taken throughout the bill so far, which is declining to comment on individual projects, because we went through an advisory group process to determine the projects that would make their way into the initial tranche of projects which is in the schedule, and Ministers were insulated from that process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWhat I can say in a general sense is that it is very difficult to consent quarries in New Zealand. One of the drivers, I\u2019m advised, of our large escalation in infrastructure, particularly roading infrastructure, over the last few years is the inability to source aggregate. The facts are really clear, which is that the further away a source of aggregate is from where it is used, the cost rises exponentially as a result of that. There\u2019s no doubt that it needs to be easier to get quarries built in New Zealand. Clearly, any application will go through a full panel process, and some of the conditions and issues that the member raises will be considered as part of that. It\u2019s worth noting there\u2019s a quarry there already, in Belmont, and it actually provides much of the aggregate for many of the roading projects around the region. I can tell you those projects would be a lot more expensive without that quarry there. That deals with that issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000934\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s point, I mean, I think what she was trying to say is: are we prepared to consider the changes around the \u201Cgreatest weight\u201D, which is listed throughout the bill, and the answer is no, we\u2019re not prepared to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn response to H\u016Bhana Lyndon\u2019s point, I mean, I think all I can do is point her to the process laid out at clauses 18A through 22B, which set out what the Minister has to do after receiving a referral application. It\u2019s pretty simple. They have to consider the application, give any Treaty settlement or other specified obligation effect, invite comments from specified persons or groups, and then decide on the application. I think it\u2019s a pretty straightforward process. It\u2019s been well laid out in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000936\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to her question around whether there is the capacity inside the Government to deal with this from the various different agencies, the answer is yes. Quite a lot of time has been spent actually working our way through, from an official level, how that will work when it comes to involvement from groups like Te Arawhiti and Te Puni K\u014Dkiri and things like that. The answer is yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022632bed3ea86945ef8fa501b19a015a18\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000937\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022632bed3ea86945ef8fa501b19a015a18\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to give a call to the Hon Kieran McAnulty, but before I do that, the Hon Dr Megan Woods had a comment about a question that you asked that you thought was misunderstood, about the \u201Cmay\u201D and the \u201Cmust\u201D. Can I just get that question clarified first?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u002267a4a5eaf5224e72b4ee8a5630025d93\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000938\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267a4a5eaf5224e72b4ee8a5630025d93\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I appreciate that the questions were put at the transition of Ministers in the chair. I absolutely understand that it is the role of the chairperson to appoint the panel. It\u2019s really around the change that was made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000939\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe previous Minister in the chair, the Hon Tama Potaka, talked about that being changed at the Environment Committee. The panel convener\u2014sorry, I\u2019m just finding the bit now. I\u2019ve moved on to other questions, but it\u2019s around the fact that they may consult the Minister; they don\u2019t have to. the question is: why was that change made? What is the policy thinking behind making that change, and what occurs in the instance that a Minister does raise concerns, given\u00A0that they don\u2019t have to consult and there is no onus for anything to necessarily be done as a result of that consultation? What thinking has been given if the Minister or Ministers do raise concerns about particular panellists that have been put there?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe other thing that I asked is whether or not this consultation was a two-way process where the Ministers were able to suggest panellists, given there may be consultation between the chair of the panel and the Minister or Ministers, and whether that was a two-way street.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThen the other questions, in clause 3 in Schedule 3, were around the very subjective criteria around exceeding the limit of number of people from a local authority to sit on a panel and what the grounds were\u2014they\u2019re very vague, as listed in the schedule\u2014and asking whether or not one of the grounds might be a project that had previously been ruled out by the Environment Court or the High Court or the Supreme Court\u2014it had clearly been a project\u00A0that only breathed life by virtue of being covered through this fast-track process\u2014and whether the Minister envisioned that that would be a case where locals would have more representation through their territorial local authority representatives on that panel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022257759add3ad4004a45f3d1cbb2e929e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000942\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022257759add3ad4004a45f3d1cbb2e929e\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member the Hon Dr Megan Woods for the clarification of the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000943\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to why the change was made to allow the panel convener to potentially consult with the Minister, the reasoning there is\u2014I actually think it\u2019s a helpful change, which is to make sure that you get the right expertise on the panel. You can envisage scenarios\u2014I\u2019m not necessarily saying this will happen\u2014in which there may be novel or interesting applications that the panel convener might say, \u201CI\u2019m thinking of the following group of people for this\u201D. But there may be factors relating to a particular project that, for example\u2014I mean, to take H\u016Bhana Lyndon\u2019s point, it may be a project that requires real iwi involvement; you may well want mana whenua of the area to have real input and advice given as part of that process. Or it may be that there may be particular niche projects that require real technical expertise, for example. It\u2019s really just a bit of a safety valve to make sure that you get the right people on the right projects. I actually see it as quite an advance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000944\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to the second question around \u201CIs it a two-way street?\u201D, no, it\u2019s not. In relation to local input, we\u2019re comfortable with the way the clause is drafted currently around local input. When you look at clause 7 of Schedule 3, around the membership of panels and the conduct of hearings, I think it\u2019s a pretty good approach, which is \u201CThe members of a panel\u2014(a) must, collectively, have\u2014knowledge, skills, and expertise relevant to the approvals sought in the substantive application \u2026 expertise in environmental matters; and (b) must include at least 1 member who [has an understanding of te ao M\u0101ori and M\u0101ori\u00A0development]\u201D. Reasonable people can disagree about exactly who, but I think it\u2019s a pretty good approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022992d5dcd7b954157a6a81aad750d35cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000945\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022992d5dcd7b954157a6a81aad750d35cd\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000946\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203d936befd4243bcb6119f4b7fb69648\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Bit late to the point, but I did say I was going to call you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000947\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265a367cb7f0e4b8d88aa52a9fd1ed90d\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: You did. Well, the Hon Dr Megan Woods had some follow-ups, so I thought I\u2019d let it go. Then I saw you look over there, and I thought, \u201CShivers, I\u2019d better get up!\u201D So I did, and I\u2019m pleased about that. Thank you for the call, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000948\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ELook, I\u2019m not sure if members are aware, but the Minister responsible for RMA Reform\u2019s just very recently put down another Amendment Paper (AP). It\u2019s quite extraordinary, really. I don\u2019t know, what; about a quarter of the way through the debate, the Minister comes in and drops in another Amendment Paper. This is a proposed amendment to AP 238. What\u2019s extraordinary is that this is actually the third Amendment Paper that the Minister has dropped today. I think what this demonstrates is that this has not been the ideal process\u2014I\u2019m being generous here\u2014for a bill that the Government is expecting this committee to consider, for the Minister then to come in and drop another amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000949\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, I would have expected that if this had come in roughly about half an hour, possibly slightly more, ago, the Minister might wish to speak to this and explain to the committee what it is that he is wishing to amend. That would have been, I think, the courteous thing to do. That certainly would have assisted the committee\u2019s understanding. We\u2019ve got one, two, three, four, five elements to this amendment, essentially, replacing provisions related to expiries with a 30 working-days\u2019 time limit. Now, the committee deserves to know what the rationale behind this is, and why, so late in the piece, this has come about now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000950\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIf you look at the first proposal of this amendment\u2014the first of five\u2014it looks to replace \u201Cafter any rights of appeal under section 26 that relate to the concession are exhausted or have expired\u201D in new clause 6C inserted by Amendment Paper 238 with \u201Cand a period of 30 working days has expired after the decision document for the concession was issued under section 24Y(1)\u201D. What does this mean? Where the original proposal was that any rights of appeal conclude when things have exhausted and expired, that makes sense. But now there\u2019s this proposal, right in the piece, of 30 working days\u2014but not after an expiry has happened; it\u2019s after a decision document for the concession was issued.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000951\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EPerhaps the Minister might want to explain: is it possible, if this goes through, for there to be a period of time when the concession isn\u2019t exhausted or hasn\u2019t expired, but because it\u2019s after 30 days they can\u2019t do anything? It\u2019s a potential, if you look at this, that there\u2019s a window there which wouldn\u2019t have been there and now is there\u2014that people could get caught out\u2014and it\u2019s a similar theme right across all five elements to this amendment. I think the committee deserves an explanation as to why it was so late and what it is that the Minister\u2019s trying to achieve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002223fe6d737dbe4c5fb97e7f12dcb8ab3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000952\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223fe6d737dbe4c5fb97e7f12dcb8ab3c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the time has come for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break. The committee will resume at 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 5.55 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022 data-id=\u002205e4ff8b8ebb440e8d86e0fb988458b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000954\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205e4ff8b8ebb440e8d86e0fb988458b5\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I would like to get very specifically to clause 19B, and that is on page 33. Now, this is about the reporting requirements in relation to use of public conservation land in terms of the processes after Ministers receive referral applications. I want to pick up on this aspect in particular, because it\u2019s a part that is of fundamental importance to the Minister\u2019s decision making. It outlines that if a project area includes public conservation land, the Minister for Infrastructure must, for the referral application, obtain and consider a report that the Department of Conservation (DOC) pulls together, and it outlines what the report must set out, in clause 19B(4)(a), (b), and (c). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000955\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EWhat is missing from this report\u2014and which I\u2019m interested in the rationale as to why it is missing\u2014is an actual assessment of the ecological impacts of the project. Now, why this is so important is because this Minister will need to actually have some form of evidence that robustly informs them about the actual nature of the ecological impacts. I\u2019m not sure why this wouldn\u2019t be a reporting requirement by the department and I\u2019d be interested to hear the Minister\u2019s rationale as to why it\u2019s not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000956\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EIf we\u2019re going to call on DOC\u2014and you\u2019d think this would just be a bit of a no-brainer\u2014to lend their expertise to each application, to inform the Minister, then you\u2019d think we would actually make use of their expertise and require them to undertake a scientific assessment of any arrangements that may relate to the use of that conservation land. Considering there are land exchange provisions in the bill for conservation land, I\u2019m interested in what kinds of activities the Minister expects would be carried out on public conservation land that would require some sort of access arrangement under this part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000957\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EFor example, we know that there are at least seven entities currently listed in the Fast-track Approvals Bill that have known compliance issues with DOC, two of which are to be investigated further. Will reporting requirements on arrangements for public conservation land include any history of non-compliance, specifically with DOC? I know that in the application process these companies or individuals are meant to put forward any history of non-compliance and what not, but what about when it comes to DOC? I\u2019m aware of particularly one company where they have outstanding concession fees and haven\u2019t been paying their concession fees to DOC. What justification is there for these companies still remaining eligible for these public conservation land arrangements? Now, I specifically have an Amendment Paper 169.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000958\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb071f10cb9f48b5b168cc6ae13d5be0\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Great amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213df468c002f4640973ee74da984950a\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you; it is a great amendment and it would be very helpful for ensuring the Minister actually makes a wise decision with these. It\u2019s simply to include, in 19B(2) after paragraph (a), to include an assessment of the ecological impacts of the project which, again, seems like a very simple ask, considering that the department\u2014Department of Conservation, in this case\u2014will be looking at the project, will be considering it, but aren\u2019t specifically requested to put forward their expertise and knowledge about the site, about the project, about the ecological impacts, and we\u2019d like to know why.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4788a39c8904ec18da26d294b7d0aea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4788a39c8904ec18da26d294b7d0aea\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Regional Development):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d like to thank the honourable member Lan Pham for that question. Of course, I\u2019d direct the committee\u2019s attention to clause 19B(4), inserted by Amendment Paper 238. I\u2019d remind everyone that this pertains to the assignment of certain rights to use part of the estate under the administration of the Minister of Conservation or the delegated individuals. There is a host of other provisions that deal with the impact or the effects of an activity. For those reasons, the attention is dedicated to: does a potential assignment create a liability for the Crown? If I take the member to clause 19B(4), there is more than enough scope there for advice to be tendered as to what does this assignment represent in relation to a liability or a risk. Matters pertaining to the externalities associated with the activity are picked up in other parts of the statute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022553070750a6c457f9d4a276bc73cbcea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000961\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022553070750a6c457f9d4a276bc73cbcea\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. Mr Chair. I\u2019m interested in looking at new clause 31AAA of Part 2, before we get into the schedules. This is a new provision that\u2019s been introduced in the Minister responsible for RMA Reform\u2019s large amendment, as I\u2019ll call it\u2014238\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220552f44f3a95419e9c81085774b958bd\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Page? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000963\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022977c9fd814694115b35eb7ccf7ffc87d\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and the page is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000964\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292b9326206114a4999c10a6478c75193\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Is that Amendment Paper 238?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000965\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254ce5d44bee04e168a58806fe8886059\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the Minister\u2019s large Amendment Paper is Amendment Paper 238, and the page is page 108. That is new clause 31AAA, \u201COrder in Council to amend authorised person in Schedule 2\u201D, on Amendment Paper 238.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000966\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, as we know, Schedule 2 contains the 149 projects that the Clerk recommended be ruled out because many of them are for a private benefit. That is relevant to the insertion of this new clause, because what it does is say that the Governor-General may, by Order in Council, change the person who is the authorised person on the listed project. Of course, if these were all public projects, then they would not, I presume, need this new clause to enable the Governor-General to change who is the authorised person. If we go to Schedule 2, you will see the various different columns. It starts with authorised person, then the project name, then the project description, and then the approximate geographical location.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000967\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWhy, I assume, new clause 31AAA is being inserted\u2014and I would like the Minister\u2019s confirmation for this\u2014is because many of these projects are private entities. If we look at the second project on page 113\u2014that\u2019s in Schedule 2\u2014the \u201Cauthorised person\u201D is listed as Andrew William Simpson and Karen Frances Simpson. They sound to me like a couple of farmers who, I think, may have even appeared in front of the Environment Committee and who want to build a solar array at Lake Tekap\u014D. Very clearly, this is a private interest that those two people have, and should they want to sell their farm, should they want to sell their solar array, when it happens, then the Governor-General\u2014well, before the consent is issued\u2014will have to make an Order in Council to change their names on the schedule. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000968\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EHowever, if we look down to the next authorised person, that is the Ashburton District Council. I acknowledge that from time to time councils do change their arrangements, and the Minister in the chair, the Hon Shane Jones, will know more about this than me, I\u2019m sure. Normally, that has to be done by a statute, by another piece of legislation. Something like a local government reorganisation Act would make a change that would amend this schedule itself if the Ashburton District Council suddenly changed, if it suddenly became a unitary authority\u2014I\u2019ve got the member shaking his head across from me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000969\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b6d4778cfe74e3a97991fafd2a98a17\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: No, keep going on the unitary stuff. What\u2019s that about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000970\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226848634fbe5644ab8287b5393d4c0aee\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not suggesting anything should change about the Ashburton District Council at all, but should the Ashburton District Council have a change of name or have a change of relationship with other councils, that would be a change made by statute in this Parliament, and there would be no need for an Order in Council like that specified in new clause 31AAA, because the legislation doing that would amend Schedule 2 of the Fast-track Approvals Act as well. I\u2019d like confirmation from the Minister that the point of this addition\u2014new clause 31AAA in this Amendment Paper\u2014is because there are so many private projects listed in Schedule 2 and, being private projects, they may change hands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u002274d61a51e52448e8b849c9853c19d6f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000971\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274d61a51e52448e8b849c9853c19d6f0\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Chair. Before the dinner break, the Minister responsible for RMA Reform was asked by the Hon Kieran McAnulty about Amendment Paper 238, which was only tabled in this Chamber less than an hour before the dinner break. I think it was a fair question, and I believe it would be helpful for the Minister to answer our questions in terms of what this is and why it is important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000972\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019ve gone through today, there\u2019s been three amendments tabled by the Minister in charge of this bill\u2014three\u2014not to mention the large Amendment Paper 238, which we only got yesterday, wasn\u2019t it, which has obviously been for us to work through very quickly. I feel like the request from the Hon Kieran McAnulty is justified, to ask around what this piece in Schedule 5, new clause 6C, is all about, just so that we can understand. It just surprises me that we\u2019re in this position where this is happening not once, not twice, but three times already, and we don\u2019t know; maybe it will happen more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000973\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThe other concern I have, which I need to raise, is because two of the proposed amendments\u2014238 and, sorry, I can\u2019t see the number there\u2014are actually changing; the two previous ones are actually to do with mistakes made in terms of Schedule 2. One was an incorrect number in terms of the area mass being used; the second was around the amount of cubic metres of water. The reason we need justification is because we don\u2019t want fast and loose law. This is, obviously, the fast track they\u2019re talking about\u2014everything\u2019s going to go speedily! But, if we don\u2019t get it right, here\u2014which, I mean, it would be wonderful if it didn\u2019t progress; if it does have to pass, then let\u2019s at least get it right. I would really respect, on behalf of my colleague, an answer around the proposal that was dropped just before the dinner break, around Schedule 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u002209ad05bbc48e49bb9a83278902c4a7a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000974\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209ad05bbc48e49bb9a83278902c4a7a4\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Regional Development):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d like to thank the honourable member for that question. We\u2019re referring to Amendment Paper 238. This actually preserves appeal rights. The appeal rights are structured, in the context of this amendment, within a 30-day period, then the appellant has an option not only to administratively lay down an appeal but also to secure an estoppel, essentially, to freeze the consent within 30 days. The alternative would have been to disenable the recipient of the approval until all of the appeals had been expired or all of the appeals had been exhausted. This defines within a 30-day period and provides an opportunity for the appellant to seek such an estoppel without creating a situation that the law could be weaponised and, for a long period of time, appeals would drift on and the recipient of an approval would be prevented from operationalising it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a balance between maintaining what the law already enables and at the same time giving some confidence to the people who have sought an approval that, within a defined period of time, an actual decision pertaining to stopping the operationalisation of the consent has to be made. That\u2019s all it does. It does not create any additional appeal rights, it does not strike appeal rights out, but it tightens the period of time that an applicant has to make an application to the judge and an active decision has to be made on the merits of the application\u2014as opposed to an assumption that a disenablement of the consent would drift on and on and on, for however long an appeal may take.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc45a6d59bf14d6eb676ab24bdeddc87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000976\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc45a6d59bf14d6eb676ab24bdeddc87\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair, e mihi atu ana ki a koe m\u014D t\u0113nei w\u0101hi k\u014Drero. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000977\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 koe, Matua Shane, ka hari taku ng\u0101kau ki te kite i a koe ki roto i te t\u016Bru, kia whai w\u0101hi t\u0113nei mokopuna o te Tai Tokerau ki te patapatai ki a koe e p\u0101 ana ki te poari whiriwhiri. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000978\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EMe huri au ki roto i te reo P\u0101keh\u0101 in\u0101ianei. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000979\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E[Greetings, Mr Chair, I thank you for this opportunity to speak. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000980\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EGreetings, Matua Shane, my heart is happy to see you in the chair, so that this grandchild of Northland has the opportunity to ask you a few questions about this discussion panel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000981\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EI have to switch to English now.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000982\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EMatua Shane\u2014aroha mai. E te Minita, e te Minita, I\u2019d like to ask a question in relation to Schedule 3 and the expert panel and, in particular, draw our attention to Part 7 around the skills and experience of panel members. I have an Amendment Paper which I\u2019d like us to review, which is Amendment Paper 207, relating to this part of Schedule 3, clause 7(1A)\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000983\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229569ad4aea124adc853e93579e55968a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Was that Amendment Paper 247?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257c10c71e0aa4ff3a04e2409ededf3a3\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Amendment Paper 207, sorry; 207\u2014and I\u2019m wanting to draw us as members to the opportunity to have ao M\u0101ori perspective on the review panels. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000985\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve discussed this a few times, e te Minita, around the ability for a M\u0101ori to be appointed. This M\u0101ori, and t\u0113nei mana nui [this very powerful person], will be on the poari whiriwhiri, te poari whakatau [discussion panel, the decision-making board], and it says that the emphasis here in clause 7(1A)(b) is that at least one member needs to have an understanding of te ao M\u0101ori and M\u0101ori development. Now, my Amendment Paper, which I think is a nice complement to what the intention is of this part of the legislation, really enables us to look at the broader m\u0101tauranga, the broader p\u016Bkenga that we would want at the table for us being the one M\u0101ori on the panel. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000986\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EThis is an inclusion of somebody with an understanding of tikanga M\u0101ori and m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori. He mea nui t\u0113r\u0101 ki te M\u0101ori, kia kitea t\u0113tahi M\u0101ori e tino m\u014Dhio ki te iwi k\u0101inga, e m\u014Dhio ana ki ng\u0101 tikanga, e m\u014Dhio ana ki te taiao hoki. [That is a big thing for M\u0101ori, that a M\u0101ori can be seen that really knows the home people, knows tikanga, and also knows the environment.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000987\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori development is one thing in te ao M\u0101ori, but with my amendment, which I think is a great middle ground for us, it is a \u201Cplus, plus\u201D. It enables us to look at the broader M\u0101ori cultural values of the application, bring in additional skills when we think about our reo, our tikanga, and an understanding of mahi i te k\u0101inga, but also knowing that when you have just the M\u0101ori development focus and a bit of an ao M\u0101ori focus, you might have the commercial M\u0101ori that comes to the t\u0113pu, who may not have the aronga M\u0101ori. It\u2019s an \u201Cand, and\u201D, e te Minita\u2014I keep wanting to call you Matua Shane because you\u2019re my matua. Minister, I propose that my Amendment Paper is just such a beautiful thing for us to look at, because in clause 7(1A) and (2), I want to acknowledge there\u2019s an improvement here. It\u2019s not all bad\u2014most of it is quite bad, but this isn\u2019t too bad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000988\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb4a8740fc8e41ee8ce02e5a2f313088\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s terrible!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000989\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a11c0d17dc044401957b2fa0161a1438\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! What\u2019s good about it is that a person is not ineligible for appointment to the panel by reason of whakapapa\u2014by reason of tribal affiliation. Now, oftentimes in the Environment Court, we have our own uri who cannot sit on our own panels because they have a whakapapa to the iwi or hap\u016B at place. Now, one good thing I\u2019ve seen is that an uri who has affiliation to that place could actually sit on the panel. N\u014D reira he mea pai t\u0113r\u0101, he mea nui. [So that is a good thing, and an important thing.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019m proposing in my amendment is an opportunity to both look at the M\u0101ori commercial world and all those p\u016Bkenga, all those skills that come with it. There\u2019s a tirohanga M\u0101ori, an ao M\u0101ori thing there, but we need to strengthen it\u2014strengthen it with our reo, strengthen it with taiao, with m\u0101tauranga, and the ability for us to look at\u2014you know, some M\u0101ori are quite good in the planning space, good in terms of ture, but also in terms of tikanga. I have a working knowledge in seeing this in practice, whereby we have the ability to bring people on with these added additional skills. I have a concern, and I want to signal to the Chair that I want a little bit extra time to talk to this, because there\u2019s an opportunity for us to do better in this space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000991\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EFor the Fast-track Approvals Bill, Schedule 3, here at clause 7, I\u2019d like us to really look at broadening the ability for us to add tikanga M\u0101ori and m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori into these key competencies. I don\u2019t know whether the members of the Government may appreciate the ability for M\u0101ori to freely express themselves on these committees, these panels, because having M\u0101ori development, ao M\u0101ori, is great, but\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000992\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c162e78e69d743cda90838af731d3de2\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: Repetitive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000993\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227c2ef8c28734d9b8d86180c3bc4e456\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no, no, no\u2014let me finish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000994\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a6bfa7a55ed4186ba38ee982732658f\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: This is sounding like a job application.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000995\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c6200238f884bf598f01f0a12d7bf79\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no, no, no\u2014I don\u2019t want to be on these panels, thank you. But in recent times, I have seen an Environment Court hearing whereby we had a whanaunga of a distant nature who came in with very strong m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori but also ng\u0101 m\u014Dhioranga o te ture [knowledge of legislation], and we saw that person come in and play the middle ground and provide the balance for the perspective of the panel\u2014this is in an Environment Court hearing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000996\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019m sharing here is by adding tikanga M\u0101ori and m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori into the kete p\u016Bkenga for ao M\u0101ori and M\u0101ori development, all it does is strengthen the opportunity for the Crown to show that they are opening up the opportunity for all of the skills that we have in te ao M\u0101ori. Again, I mihi to the fact that if you have whakapapa to that place, if you are of the hap\u016B and iwi, that is a good thing that we are not ineligible to sit on these panels.  N\u014D reira koia taku tono ki te Minita, otir\u0101 m\u014D t\u014D t\u0101tou iwi M\u0101ori. Kia ora t\u0101tou.  [So that is my request to the Minister, indeed for our M\u0101ori people. Thanks everyone.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd13a77e5a6545ea9b948374d7a0262e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000997\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd13a77e5a6545ea9b948374d7a0262e\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022 data-id=\u0022788986725acc4308af1c1e7c76052ffc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000998\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022788986725acc4308af1c1e7c76052ffc\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai, otir\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koe e te Minita. Ko t\u0113nei taku w\u0101 tuatahi ki t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire. Me pono aku k\u014Drero, i te w\u0101 i kite au i a koe i t\u0113r\u0101 t\u016Bru, i k\u014Drero atu au ki a Mariameno Kapa-Kingi me taku k\u012B, \u201CMe tino koi aku whakaaro in\u0101ianei n\u0101 te mea kua tae mai te matua.\u201D Me m\u0101tua aku koi ki t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1000999\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Speaker, indeed thank you, Minister. This is my first time on this particular bill. I must speak honestly, when I saw you in that chair, I said to Mariameno Kapa-Kingi, \u201CMy thoughts have to be intelligent now because the master has arrived.\u201D My intellect must be foremost concerning this bill.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001000\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EEngari ko taku p\u0101tai [But my question]: I just want to come to Part 2 and the process around clause 19A, \u201CReport on Treaty settlements and other obligations\u201D, particularly pertaining to\u2014this is in Part 1, at clause 7. I\u2019m just referring to it; I\u2019m not talking on behalf of it. Just in Part 1, at clause 7, it says that \u201C(3) In this section, \u2018Te Ture Whaimana\u2019 means the vision and strategy set out in\u2014(a) Schedule 2 of the Waikato-Tainui Raupatu Claims (Waikato River) Settlement Act 2010;\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003ENow, I guess the Minister will be well aware of the blanket approach, and I guess\u2014k\u0101re au e tino m\u014Dhio ki te kupu engari [I don\u2019t really know the word, but], the settlement that we have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221321e427604a4c839529716f5551115e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Taea te reo M\u0101ori te kupu. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E[You can use the M\u0101ori word.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a79c2283d94415fa8463cd037e34de2\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, OK. Ka pai. It is the settlement that we have within my electorate of Hauraki-Waikato, and that\u2019s mainly coming to my p\u0101tai around the projects that some of the projects in the 19 approved projects in Waikato are pertaining to the mining and quarry projects. These affect our taonga and our pepeha within our electorate such as the Rotowaro Mine Continuation Project, the Waih\u012B North Project, the Pit\u00A01 Mining Project, and I guess my p\u0101tai is around\u2014we know that there\u2019s already going to be consultation with post-settlement governance entities (PSGEs), with iwi entities, the Tainui Group Holdings, but my p\u0101tai is: are there going to be consultations with the hap\u016B and mana whenua of those mining quarry projects?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EFor example, I\u2019m not an expert in this field such as Whaea Debbie, but I do know in my electorate, in the Rotowaro, that stream goes down to the Waahi Paa lake, which me and my siblings consistently swim in over the summer and they will be in preparation for Waka Ama. I know that is how it translates into my electorate and as rangatahi M\u0101ori, and that would be the same in some of these other mining projects within Waikato such as Taharoa, such as Waih\u012B.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EI guess, yes, there\u2019s obviously going to be consultation with Waikato-Tainui raupatu claims in the settlements we have here and the PSGEs and iwi entities, but I guess my question is: will there be consultation and what will that consultation look like with mana whenua and hap\u016B\u2014like, I guess you don\u2019t need to talk to every single person in Waahi Pa, but\u2014making sure that there\u2019s consultation with the areas that particularly affect these mining and quarry projects within the Waikato?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EThe reason why I\u2019m so heavy on this kaupapa is because when you\u2019re in a M\u0101ori seat, that\u2019s seven for my electorate\u2014there\u2019s seven general seats and one M\u0101ori seat. All 19 projects in Waikato do sit within our responsibility, and I just want to make sure that I\u2019ve got it on the record; it\u2019s on the Hansard that we\u2019re asking these questions around making sure that there\u2019s iwi consultation, which is a given because we are a post-settlement iwi coming up to our 30th year next year. Making sure that there\u2019s also another layer under that, which is talking to mana whenua, talking to the relating different hap\u016B, marae, iwi. It might vary for each project. It might look different for each rohe, iwi, and seat. Ar\u0101 taku p\u0101tai. [That\u2019s my question.] Kia\u00A0ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7ed7aecd0054f58a4ccaffb05171320\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7ed7aecd0054f58a4ccaffb05171320\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Regional Development):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e k\u014D m\u014D t\u0113n\u0101 p\u0101tai. Tino m\u0101rama. Me titiro t\u0101tou ki te wh\u0101rangi 32, me heke atu t\u0101tou ki te mutunga o te wh\u0101rangi. Ko te \u016Bpoko 19(2)(h), kei kon\u0101 te kupu \u201Chap\u016B\u201D. P\u0113n\u0101 he r\u014Dp\u016B kua whakaarangia hei whakaputa hei whakakanohi i ng\u0101 p\u0101nga o te hap\u016B i roto i t\u0113nei ture, e kore e taea te whakataha i a r\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EN\u0101 m\u014D te w\u0101hanga m\u014D te p\u0101tai mai i te mema o Te R\u014Dp\u016B Kakariki, ko t\u0113nei kupu ko \u201Cte ao M\u0101ori\u201D kei roto k\u0113 i t\u0113tahi ture k\u0113 atu ko te ingoa o t\u0113r\u0101 ture ko te Law Commission Act. N\u0101 \u0113tahi m\u0101tanga ka hia noa atu te teitei o \u0113r\u0101 t\u0101ngata p\u0113r\u0101 me David Baragwanath n\u0101 r\u0101tou t\u0113n\u0101 r\u014Dp\u016B i haut\u016B i t\u014D r\u0101tou w\u0101. Kua takoto k\u0113 te kupu \u201Cte ao M\u0101ori\u201D i roto i te ture. Kei roto i te ao M\u0101ori ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga p\u0113nei me te m\u0101tauranga, te ritenga te tikanga. Take t\u0113n\u0101 o m\u0101tou i \u0101mine ai me waiho ko te ao M\u0101ori kia rite ai ki t\u0113tahi k\u0101kahu ka horapa ki runga ki te katoa ko ng\u0101 \u0101hutanga M\u0101ori. Take t\u0113n\u0101 m\u0101tou i tuhituhi ai kia p\u0113nei te takoto m\u014D ng\u0101 p\u016Bkenga e tika ana kia t\u012Bkina atu e t\u0113tahi tangata hei noho ki runga i te paepae tuku raihana. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E[Thank you for that question, madam. Very clear. Let us review page 32, at the bottom of the page, at clause 19(2)(h), there is the word \u201Chap\u016B\u201D. If there is a group that is represented within this statute, they cannot be revoked. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ENow, for the question in regards to given by the member of the Green Party, this word \u201Cte ao M\u0101ori\u201D is in another law, the name of that law is the Law Commission Act. Now, there are experts in this field such as David Baragwanath, who led that group in those times. The word \u201Cao M\u0101ori\u201D has already been set down in that law. Within the M\u0101ori world are things such as knowledge, principles, and protocols. That\u2019s the reason why we gave our approval, so that the M\u0101ori world can cloak everyone with its culture. Hence why we wrote it this way for the correct experts, so that a person is able to sit on the panel and give out licences.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8b7f1d80fb348449632cf69f6769aec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8b7f1d80fb348449632cf69f6769aec\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I appreciate the opportunity to take a call. I have some questions to the Minister for Regional Development specifically related to Schedule 11 of what my learned colleague called the large amendment\u2014I think that\u2019s its new name, but it\u2019s Amendment Paper 238, just for the record. Under Schedule 11, which is on page 234, so the second to last page, there are some amendments here around the relationship with the Public Works Act. I have an example that I do want to bring to the table that I did raise earlier with the Minister in the chair, the Hon Shane Jone, this morning, I believe, that I didn\u2019t receive an answer on. I think, actually, when you look at it in the context of the schedule, it becomes kind of a relevant point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EJust looking at clause 2(c), the application of the schedule applies if a person has objected to the taking of the land under section 23 of the Public Works Act 1981. I raised this, this morning, in the context of one of the projects in my electorate, the Hope Bypass, which you can find in Schedule 2 on page 126, and, in that, it talks specifically about additional land acquisition outside of the designation for the road. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThe reason I raise this is the Minister will be aware of the case with Wakatu Incorporation of the Nelson Tenths in Te Tau Ihu, which is a significant case matter that predates Te Tiriti. What has occurred with that case currently being before the courts is we have had situations in Nelson and across Te Tau Ihu where small parcels of land may be being acquired or may be being changed between one Government department to another or potentially sold, and, actually, some of those matters have been held up because of the potential litigation from that case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s an example literally around the corner from where the Hope Bypass is currently due to go through where, in order to build a roundabout, a small parcel of Crown land needed to be transferred from the polytechnic to the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) in order to have enough room to build the roundabout, but because of the risk of litigation due to the current case that is still live before the courts with Wakatu, in the end the decision was made not to do the transfer of the land parcel and to come up with a different outcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ENow, the reason I\u2019m raising this, in terms of its relevance, is that if you look in Schedule 2, it specifically talks about land acquisition, and it\u2019s likely for the Hope Bypass that there will be land acquisition in order to build it. The question I\u2019ve got around Schedule 11 is that it actually changes the approach in terms of how an appeal can occur under the Public Works Act. If you look at clause 3, it says \u201CCourt must accept determination of panel about consideration of alternative sites, etc.\u201D. It\u2019s not really clear to me what would happen in a situation if, for example, under the Public Works Act, the NZTA decide they\u2019re going to acquire some land in order to build the Hope Bypass and that then potentially leads\u00A0to\u00A0litigation risk from Wakatu who are looking for parcels of land that they can acquire in order to achieve the outcomes they wish to under the Tenths case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI know it might feel like a complex piece of law to kind of look through, but these are the types of questions that we have and that I have, because there are two risks that occur through this. One is that you have a risk of undermining that court process, which is going through the courts. I think a lot of us, despite the fact that it\u2019s going through the courts, know there needs to be a resolution. Secondly, it actually has the potential to, if it leads to further litigation, actually undermine the ability to build that new road. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI\u2019m just keen to understand from the Minister a bit more about how that Schedule 11 will work in terms of the Public Works Act. I don\u2019t have the expertise in the Act as my learned colleague Rachel Brooking does. I understand she has mentioned this briefly but may have some further questions on this schedule, because it actually is quite an important one for us to understand in terms of the introduction of this legislation. That\u2019s my question. Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022 data-id=\u00224924f824547243f4b61c43931afec986\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224924f824547243f4b61c43931afec986\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. There has been very, very little improvement in this bill throughout the whole of the select committee process that I\u2019ve been part of, but I\u2019m really pleased to talk and ask questions about this one part that has just arrived in the substantive Amendment Paper that the Government has made, which does seem to suddenly have realised the thing that we\u2019ve been asking about and proposing amendments to, about protecting the rights of existing consent holders, which was completely absent from the bill previously but has now turned up in some form in the Amendment Paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EI want to ask about new clause 24AAB, which has turned up in this Amendment Paper, and it\u2019s page 44. What was really concerning previously, when there were seemingly no protections at all or even the obligation for fast-track projects who were seeking to have access to resources\u2014and, particularly, it was so clear in the case of limited resources, like our precious wai, our precious water, particularly in areas of the country like where I\u2019ve been hanging out for the last few decades, in Waitaha Canterbury, where there\u2019s significant issues with overallocation. This is across the country as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EThis clause appears to go some way to at least identifying any existing resource consents, but it\u2019s saying \u201Cfor the same activity\u201D. Again, this is good, particularly in the water space, where it\u2019s a constrained resource, but what I\u2019m interested in understanding is\u2014it goes on to say where this section applies. This is 24AAB(1): \u201CThis section applies if\u201D\u2014blah-blah-blah\u2014\u201C(a)\u201D. But what I\u2019m interested in is about (b): \u201Cthe authorised person for the project does not hold an existing resource consent for the same activity using some or all of the same natural resource.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003ENow, personally, I\u2019m not quite following that, so I\u2019d love some clarity from the Minister in the chair, the Hon Shane Jones, as to what is intended there. For a layperson reading this, it sounds like it\u2019s saying, \u201Cif that person does hold a consent\u201D. Does that, therefore, mean that these seemingly very basic, you wouldn\u2019t call them, protections but at least notifications of existing consent holders using that resource or having access to that resource, and the councils having to be notified that this application is actually going through\u2014does it mean this doesn\u2019t apply?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s interesting about this is that\u2014is this in a way opening up a new pathway for where there are constrained resources that fast track will allow, for example, the allocation of water above which currently would be considered overallocated limits?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003ENow, it goes on further to say\u2014sorry, this is now at clause 24AAB(4)(b)(ii)\u2014\u201Cif the existing resource consent relates to a listed project or referred project for which a substantive application has not been lodged, lodge a substantive application that seeks an approval described in section 24C\u201D\u2014which is, essentially, about having a resource consent\u2014\u201Cfor the same activity as is authorised by the existing resource consent.\u201D I am really keen to understand the implications of these clauses and whether they actually do afford protections, or not, for existing consent holders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022e469c408c53349ef8430e6953779356d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e469c408c53349ef8430e6953779356d\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Right, where to start? Maybe I\u2019ll start where my colleague Rachel Boyack left off. That was with Schedule 11, and we were talking about the issues of the Tenths Trust but with particular interest in what happens when somebody\u2019s land is being acquired and then in that interaction between the Public Works Act and this approval process and what happens at the Environment Court, because there\u2019s a change in the bill, from as it was introduced, so that now the \u201CCourt must accept determination of panel about consideration of alternative sites\u201D. On the face of that, it appears to be a watering-down of your normal rights under the Public Works Act, and he might want to comment on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EAlso, I\u2019d note that I still am waiting for an answer about clause 31AAA and the requirements for an Order in Council for the change of those private names. If that\u2019s because there\u2019s such a big difference between those private entities and the public entities, that wouldn\u2019t need such a clause. That\u2019s two things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EGoing to Schedule 1, I have a short comment on this. This is \u201CTransitional, savings, and related provisions\u201D, and the main change in this large Amendment Paper is that what were going to be the repealed provisions that were in the Natural and Built Environment Act that weren\u2019t repealed and that have been in transition are now, I think, going to become the interim fast-track consenting Act. Just a small question on the Schedule 1: am I right in saying that what was going to be repealed is now going to remain and that that\u2019s because there might be some projects that are going through that process, but they might not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e3938d7069e4113a8ba85fd009d6ba4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I just note that Schedule 1 is in Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a2ccff34f3c4d6dbb7fd36c7f889900\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I apologise for that. I will move to somewhere else. I will go back to some questions that I\u2019ve asked before in Part 2 and that have not been answered, and I appreciate that the Minister in the chair, the Hon Shane Jones, has been answering some of these questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EAt Subpart 3, clause 26, on page 95 of the Government\u2019s amendment, Amendment Paper 238, the Government is amending the ability to appeal on a question of law\u2014and the Minister will be well aware that there\u2019s no merits-based appeals here; they are restricted to questions of law. But the Government has in this Amendment Paper deleted clause 26(1)(e): \u201Cany person who has an interest in the decision appealed against that is greater than that of the general public.\u201D My question is: why has that happened? I\u2019ve not had an answer to that yet, and I, of course, think that that deletion should be reversed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThen I was also asking questions about clause 27AAB, \u201CJudicial review\u201D. This is new as well in the Amendment Paper from the Government, and it gives it a 20 - working-day time frame for judicial review. The question there is: with all that that clause is doing, is it just about that time frame? My question there is: what analysis has there been on the 20\u00A0days, compared with other legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThen going back, I\u2019ve asked this a couple of times, and I have not got an answer, and I\u2019m concerned about clause 24C\u2014specifically, on page 53, of the large amendment. Clause\u00A024C is \u201CAuthorised person may lodge substantive application for approvals\u201D. There have been a number of amendments in the Government\u2019s Amendment Paper, and particularly the cause of the concern is at subclause (3), which is \u201CA substantive application may seek 1 or more of the following matters (the approvals):\u201D. Then there is a list, and it\u2019s got some changes. There is a new paragraph (aaa), \u201Ca change or cancellation of a resource consent condition\u201D. There\u2019s a new paragraph (ga), and, most interestingly, given this Minister in the chair, there is a new\u00A0paragraph (k), \u201Ca mining permit that would otherwise be applied for under section 23A of the Crown Minerals Act\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EMy question is: is this an expansion of the bill and what can be applied for than what\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022ded40cb3db4341988a35cf3999c5a843\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ded40cb3db4341988a35cf3999c5a843\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022525beb766a0d4fe09e7cbe7081703945\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022525beb766a0d4fe09e7cbe7081703945\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. The point, really, was that it would be good to have that question answered because as we know, this Amendment Paper 238 came in yesterday afternoon and we have been debating this bill in committee stage since yesterday afternoon after question time. That one has still not got an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EAnother question I\u2019ve asked previously is about new clause 22B, \u201CCriteria for assessing referral application\u201D. A different Minister in the chair answered some of my questions around this, but I did suggest that the Government could include adding supporting green infrastructure to the list of criteria that the Minister for Infrastructure may consider as positives. I\u2019ve got an amendment that says that, but it\u2019s really nature-based solutions. Wouldn\u2019t it be good if this bill is, as the Prime Minister says, to encourage environmental goodness? We would want nature-based solutions to be a consideration, and that would be a very easy, good-faith amendment for this Government to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u00228d64e185117b407d883c2bed562837b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d64e185117b407d883c2bed562837b0\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019d like to speak also to Part 2. We\u2019re looking at the \u201CMinister\u2019s decision on referral application\u201D, clause 22A. One thing that is of interest is in terms of reasons to decline a referral application, which is 22A(5)(a): \u201CReasons to decline a referral application under subsection (4) include, without limitation, the following: \u2026 the project would be inconsistent with any of the following:\u201D, and then there\u2019s a list. I will not read it out to you; you can read it yourselves. One thing that was of particular interest was paragraph (d), which was that the Minister could decline a referral on the grounds of \u201Cthe applicant \u2026 has a poor compliance history under a specified Act that relates to any of the proposed approvals\u201D. Now, this is a very real problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EIn the case of Bathurst Resources, it was recently outlined that, in their experience at Canterbury Coal, the company had breached its runoff consent 28 times, and then after applying to extend the mine, it was found to be in breach of its entire consent. It was found that it was mining five times the amount of coal that it had consent for and, as a result, it had breached dust, light, traffic, and other consents. Bathurst refused to hand over requested information to Environment Canterbury (ECan) and ended up closing the mine. Instead of having to argue over the breached consents, after ECan came up with a rehabilitation plan, Bathurst is now appealing that to the Environment Court. That would be a pretty glaring example, you might suggest, of an applicant that has a poor compliance history under a specified Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003ENow, my question for the Minister in the chair, the Hon Shane Jones, is: how is it that the Minister is best able to evaluate that compliance history? What are the mechanisms by which the Minister can avail themselves of independent analysis and information about the applicant? In the referral process, if you look back to page 27, the applicant is required to avail in their application for a referral \u201Cthe types of consents, certificates, designations, concessions, and other legal authorisations (other than contractual authorisations or the proposed approvals) that the applicant considers are needed to authorise the project\u201D, but it would not be in the applicant\u2019s interest to fess up about their poor consent record. How is it that the Minister will independently assess the track record of a given company or individual applying for a referral motion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EI also have an amendment that specifically relates to this clause, in Part 2, Amendment Paper 168: in clause 19A(2)(k), replace \u201Cshould\u201D with \u201Cmust\u201D. It changes the current reason to decline, under clause 22A(5), into \u201Cadditional reasons the referral application must be declined\u201D under clause 22A. That is what I am proposing: an amendment that would strengthen what is otherwise a pretty useful list of reasons for declining an application. I\u2019d appreciate hearing the Minister\u2019s take on that. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u002209dbca240ed7474489ca67453ab10b09\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209dbca240ed7474489ca67453ab10b09\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Regional Development):\u003C/span\u003E There\u2019s a number of items that I\u2019d like to cover off. Obviously, the rights of appeal in respect of this statute are tightly defined. There has been no attempt at all to obfuscate the fact that this legislation is designed to restrict matters to the black letter, meaning of the black-letter law, significance. That\u2019s the first thing. To go much further than that, I think, quite frankly, is to use valuable time of the committee upon something that is patently obvious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIn respect to the Whakat\u016B land litigation\u2014because I have to be mindful that litigation that\u2019s before the courts, we have to respect the principle of comity\u2014there\u2019s no doubt in my mind that that process will wend its way through the various corridors of the judiciary and solutions can be arrived at irrespective of what projects may be funded or what projects may be granted an approval.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ENow, in relation to how and why a project should be declined, I use the member\u2019s own words: \u201CThe Minister will be furnished with information. The Minister will be able to check the veracity of that information.\u201D The Minister, quite frankly, in clause 22A(3), already is under a compulsory duty to decline in the absence of subsection\u00A0(1) not being complied with. The Minister has to be of a view that the proposed project \u201Cinvolves an ineligible activity\u201D, and that \u201Cthe Minister considers that they do not have adequate information to inform the decision under this section.\u201D Such a catch-all phrase would enable the Minister to ensure that they have comprehensive understanding of the spotty history that the member\u00A0refers to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00227e79ed4fed1a4cd9bd82a4e81679cef9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e79ed4fed1a4cd9bd82a4e81679cef9\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. I thank the Minister in the chair, the Hon Shane Jones, for his responses just now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI had a series of related questions that are to do with \u201CCriteria for assessing referral application\u201D\u2014specifically, clause 22B(1)(a), \u201Csignificant regional or national benefits;\u201D, and also subclause 2(a)(iv), \u201Cdeliver significant economic benefits:\u201D. Really, the question is about how Ministers and the Government can be assured that they\u2019re receiving the right standard of information to assess those benefits\u2014whether the benefits need to outweigh the cost of the project. Is that the assumption? Is that the test? As far as I can tell, reading the Amendment Paper, there\u2019s no definition\u2014and here I mean the Amendment Paper from the Minister responsible for RMA Reform, which is Amendment Paper 238\u2014of what significant national or regional benefits are. I guess there\u2019s just the question of whether the economic benefits\u2014how that will be assessed. If we look at a number of the projects in Schedule 2, especially those from the New Zealand Transport Agency, for some of the projects listed that have had public information about costs and benefits the economic benefits have been less than the cost\u2014the benefit-cost ratio, in other words, has been under one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EOne suggestion made earlier\u2014I know my colleague Scott Willis has an Amendment Paper that would specify a little bit more information under clause 18, and we have discussed that previously. I think, actually, it probably should go further because\u2014I guess my question to the Minister is: do we think that the economic benefits need to be assessed in a standardised way so we know that we\u2019re comparing apples with apples in different projects? Do the benefits need to outweigh the costs for it to be considered significant benefits and for it to be considered that\u2019s it delivering significant economic benefits? Will there be an objective test of how those economic benefits are calculated?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI had one further question: will the Government decline projects that are not able to demonstrate significant economic benefits, or is that just one aspect? Would this be judicially reviewable if, for example, a project is referred, it is approved, but subsequently people say, \u201CWell, actually, the information is not there to establish genuine economic benefits to the country because the economic benefits are outweighed by the cost of the project.\u201D? Could that be a reason for either the consent to be declined or for it to be judicially reviewed if it was given? I ask this because previously under resource management law, under the board of inquiry process, for example, consent authorities, board of inquiries, and the Environment Court have said it\u2019s not up to them to determine whether the economic benefits are there or not; they\u2019re there to determine whether the effects can be mitigated sufficiently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s what previous Resource Management Act law was, but with this fast-track thing and the fact that significant economic benefits are one of the key reasons for this process, does that mean then that, actually, the consent authority, the panels and those who might be reviewing the decision\u2014I guess it can\u2019t be reviewed\u2014will be able to look at the evidence around whether or not there is economic benefit and use that as a reason to determine that the project should not go ahead?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022062c063732484bab8208f24b83764bf4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022062c063732484bab8208f24b83764bf4\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Regional Development):\u003C/span\u003E I have no doubt in my mind that, after this bill passes, there will be no shortage of people seeking crevices and avenues upon which to litigate. That, sadly, is just a part of the system. Hopefully, this bill will reduce such weaponisation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ECan I direct the honourable former Minister, the Hon Julie Anne Genter, to clause 22B(2), which is a long schedule, and, against my better judgment, it talks too much about climate change, but that\u2019s another matter. You will see there is a reference not only to significant economic benefits but to addressing significant environmental issues. Obviously, these matters will become justiciable. By that, I mean they will provide an opportunity for people who want to chance their arm on the question of law\u2014not of values, not of normative assertions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI think that if we study it carefully, that particular provision\u2014the content of paragraph (a) right through to subparagraph (x), before it goes to \u201C(b) any other matters the Minister considers relevant.\u201D\u2014answers the question for the honourable member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022edc71eab72d64bc7aa5bcd72d5b0d5d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022edc71eab72d64bc7aa5bcd72d5b0d5d2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, before I take the next call, can I get members to focus on bringing new material and new questions, and I appreciate that some members might not appreciate how the answers are addressed, but it is important that we cut down on the repetition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u0022eef7752fa05541328cc88728eaee8fa2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eef7752fa05541328cc88728eaee8fa2\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022 data-id=\u002213c7ed9a307e4be581c6ed9fcab568bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213c7ed9a307e4be581c6ed9fcab568bb\u0022\u003ECELIA WADE-BROWN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I will be addressing an area that I don\u2019t think has been raised in debate, and that is, in Schedule 3, the process for appointment of the chair. Now\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022286af3340b0c4c13a75e41d22b52657e\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve been through that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a831d358024d4bd38cc2f6e7d4da2b7b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve covered that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b202052510d4dd38407b02810334cb5\u0022\u003ECELIA WADE-BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there is a question about why the phrase \u201Cin consultation with the Minister\u201D has been removed, and whether it is the same reason that\u00A0the power of the triumvirate of Ministers in making decisions about projects was removed, or if there was another reason for its removal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003EThe second part about the chair of the panel is, rather than a rather unspecified level of expertise that a planner might have\u2014I mean, when you say, \u201Cwith experience in relevant law\u201D, maybe they once put in two paragraphs in a resource consent application. I would urge, and I would like to know why the chair, at least, should not be someone with more than just a planning degree, but be an Environment Court judge or, potentially, a retired Environment Court judge. Thank you, Mr Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u002269156e65f4b64b13bd896a45fee49bdf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269156e65f4b64b13bd896a45fee49bdf\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve been waiting to take this call, because my last call was regarding the amendment that was dropped just before dinnertime by the Hon Chris Bishop\u2014and it was a good answer, thank you, Minister. You talked about what this is about. You gave us a good, clear message around Schedule 5, around the whole thing of litigation and the right of appeal, etc. You gave us the \u201Cwhat it is\u201D, but the \u201Cwhy it\u2019s been dropped so late\u201D\u2014I\u2019m really interested to know why it\u2019s actually taken so long to get that in there. That\u2019s my first question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI\u2019m happy if you want to answer me now, or I can move on to my second question, which is\u2014and it would be wrong of me not to ask this question, because it was from a submitter to the Environment Committee, and if I didn\u2019t bring this up, I know that they probably would have words with us, because they made it very clear that it is important for us to consider this. One of the submitters was a member of the guardians of Fiordland. There\u2019s an actual Act of Parliament from back in 2005 which was the Fiordland (Te Moana o Atawhenua) Marine Management Act 2005.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThe concern this submitter has is around when you look at this legislation and we look at the start of Part 2, new clause 14AAA, it talks about the Fisheries Act 1996. It talks about responsibilities to tangata whenua, to hap\u016B, and as we go through it\u2014and I\u2019ve got some other bits here. There is clarity around some of the aquaculture, some of the marine responsibilities. It goes on to talk in clause 19A about the Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Act 2011. The question this submitter made to us\u2014and that\u2019s why we want to bring it up, so that we can get clarity\u2014is: where does a piece of legislation like the Fiordland marine management Act fit in?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThe concern from the submitter was, firstly\u2014and I quote the thing they said\u2014\u201CThis process disturbs me.\u201D That was their quote in terms of this piece of legislation. They had worked hard not only as a group of volunteers but as people passionate about Fiordland and the protection of that space. To you, Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cd98cd3080644ebbff4cf981c1ebe8f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Could you repeat that clause again? Was it clause 19A?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022396227dbe71a4e1788880b2551a8106d\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah\u2014well, I guess I was giving examples; I apologise. What I mean is that clause 14AAA talks about different fisheries and marine areas. Clause 18B also does. Clause 19A mentions\u2014and the reason I\u2019m being, I guess, vague in many ways is because the question from the submitter was: \u201CWhere does this fit in?\u201D Is this Act of Parliament that is nowhere in this legislation\u2014does that mean that puts it at risk in terms of what is able to be done? If there is work down in Fiordland, if there is a future fast-track project, the question is: will that put other legislation at risk?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u00225775f77e7d5a4a06815b854429c769b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225775f77e7d5a4a06815b854429c769b6\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Regional Development):\u003C/span\u003E There are two parts to that question. Obviously, the catch-all provision that I\u2019ve already referred to in terms of the Minister considering applications on the list, I\u2019m not aware which current applications might have a spillover effect on the Fiordland environment, but there is a catch-all phrase there, and it says what \u201Cmatters the Minister considers [important].\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ESecondly, on the question of why this particular amendment was moved, obviously it\u2019s to ensure that there\u2019s clarity and giving security to appellants that their rights to appeal are protected, and, at the same time, within a time frame, requiring applicants to secure a distinctive decision from the court: is the proposed activity covered in the proposal stayed or can it continue? It gives certainty to the ability of an appellant to go and test their case, but within a reasonable time frame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae3a5a7514ea457aa01a8e86ff1e4b38\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae3a5a7514ea457aa01a8e86ff1e4b38\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin): \u003C/span\u003EMr Chair, I listened intently to your ruling before, about new material. Of course, I note that many of my questions remain unanswered\u2014not that I\u2019m disappointed with the answer; just that they are unanswered, unaddressed, not addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve got three things to talk about in this contribution. I do note that the Minister in the chair, the Hon Shane Jones, did answer one of my questions, and that was on the deletion of appeal rights for people with greater than the public interest. He seemed to say that it was reckless of me to even bring it up in the committee and that it was a waste of the committee\u2019s time. That is an outrageous statement for the Minister to make, particularly when this came in an amendment that we received yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EMy question is: is that the Minister\u2019s attitude to all of these new changes, that we shouldn\u2019t even be discussing them in the committee? Because, Minister, the Ministers that have been in the chair\u2014nobody has proactively offered advice about what the changes are in all of these amendments. That includes the ones tabled just before dinner time. You\u2019ve addressed that now, but there has been no proactive advice. It was not proactive; that was in answer to a question about what these changes are, and there are many, many of them. It is a very frustrating and terrible way to make laws. That\u2019s that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThe second question is on clause 27A, or around cost recovery, really. At new clause 24ZA, inserted by Amendment Paper 238, the Environmental Protection Authority (EPA) is able to request information from relevant administering agencies and local authorities. The local authority has to provide information to the EPA if the EPA asks for it. That makes some sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e92ea9396c74ed0a7b388ee68132b6a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Could you repeat that clause again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223442b2501d834508833fec4779735d99\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, sorry\u2014I\u2019m working off the Government\u2019s amendment. At page 90, new clause 24ZA says, \u201CEPA may request information from relevant administering agencies and local authorities\u201D. We don\u2019t need to look at the detail of that\u2014it\u00A0makes some sense\u2014but what I\u2019m interested in is the cost-recovery provision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EIf you turn over to page 101, you will see that there is a cost recovery provision at new clause 27B, and it talks about how an agency may recover the costs. Then, if you look back on the page before, at page 100, there\u2019s an interpretation section at new clause 27A: \u201CAn agency means the EPA, the responsible agency, an administering agency, or a relevant local authority\u201D. I want to make sure that the intention here is that local authorities required to give information to the EPA under new clause 24ZA are going to be enabled to cost recover under new clause 27B. That\u2019s one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThen, going back to where I was getting to in my last contribution, before I was told that Schedule 1\u2014wasn\u2019t quite correctly told that it was in Part 1. I\u2019ll go to clause 33, which is at page 110, which is in Part 2. Here, the clause is deleted, and it was a repeal clause, which is \u201CClauses 4 to 9 of Schedule 1 of the Resource Management (Natural and Built Environment and Spatial Planning Repeal and Interim Fast-track Consenting) Act 2023 are repealed.\u201D It would be useful, again, for the Minister to explain why there has been this change of heart, where that natural and built environments fast-tracking was going to be repealed by this bill; it\u2019s no longer being repealed. Why is that? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3a9471c2a0641018d85e322817d1a28\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3a9471c2a0641018d85e322817d1a28\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I want to again get very specifically to a proposed amendment in relation to clause 22B. This is on page 36, in Part 2. Currently, this is about criteria for assessing referral applications, and it allows the Minister to consider whether the project does a number of things\u2014for example, whether it will deliver regionally and nationally significant infrastructure and other things. The part that I would like the Minister to consider changing is subparagraph (ix) on the following page, where it says whether the project \u201Cwill address significant environmental issues\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003ENow, what I\u2019m proposing in this amendment is to replace that with specifically saying \u201Cwill avoid, remedy, or mitigate significant environmental issues.\u201D The reason I\u2019m suggesting that is that is a well-documented and well-tested way\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240260f931d0d4884b04a8677426bb60a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Can you tell us the Amendment Paper number?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bb7fb8c137e47b1a07c124ebb401519\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Amendment Paper 178. In Amendment Paper 178, I\u2019m proposing the words \u201Cwill avoid, remedy, or mitigate significant environmental issues.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EThis is because this is a documented and well-tested way of actually avoiding, remedying, or mitigating significant environmental issues. As the clause currently stands, \u201Cwill address significant environmental issues\u201D gives uncertainty, it\u2019s not clear how you actually address them, and it\u2019s really open to a lot of discretion and it\u2019s very unspecific. I would really like to know whether the Minister would consider actually using the well-tested \u201Cavoid, remedy, or mitigate\u201D as a really clear way to provide applicants and anyone who is impacted by these projects more certainty about how environmental impacts are actually managed under the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd052cf056e64ca286acd414fb7d6c87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd052cf056e64ca286acd414fb7d6c87\u0022\u003ETANYA UNKOVICH (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022 data-id=\u00228fea0533c4954ef997c654da97ebf8f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228fea0533c4954ef997c654da97ebf8f4\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora t\u0101tou, e te M\u0101ngai, e mihi ana ki a koe me t\u014D t\u0101tou Minita ki roto i te t\u016Bru, Matua Shane. \u0112nei k\u014Drero he w\u0101hi t\u0101paetanga k\u014Drero i taku nama rua rau m\u0101 waru. N\u014D reira me tirohia t\u0101tou ki waku tono k\u014Drero e p\u0101 ana ki t\u0113nei ture whakahohoro o t\u0101tou. T\u0113nei w\u0101hanga nama wh\u0101 waeture toru\u2014 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E[Greetings all, the Speaker, and also greetings to our Minister in the chair, Matua Shane, I would like to speak to Amendment Paper 208. And so let\u2019s look to what I have to say about this fast-track bill of ours. This Schedule 4, clause 3\u2014]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b9f18459fd144d38cd35d94853579e2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Rua rau m\u0101 waru? [Two hundred and eight?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccdda6b9f12143ed8fdf7a0b7651d7f4\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON\u003C/span\u003E: Rua rau m\u0101 waru. Pai te noho ki roto i te reo. Me whakap\u0101keha ahau? [Amendment Paper 208. Is it fine to speak in te reo? Or should I speak English?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e28df446a8a47d18b9224f49446c47c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: E ai ki te tikanga kua hoki \u0113r\u0101 t\u0101ngata whakap\u0101keh\u0101 k\u014Drero heoi an\u014D taihoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E[According to tikanga, those interpreters have returned to interpret. However, hold on.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269ce3a67fcae4c87b4e96285402b81b5\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON\u003C/span\u003E: N\u014D reira me whakap\u0101keh\u0101 ahau kia m\u0101ma te haere n\u0113. [Perhaps I should speak English and so simplify my speech.] OK. I\u2019ll change into reo P\u0101keh\u0101 m\u014D t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbc20d354e454d7db01ca7a0c85f0aa8\u0022\u003EHon Karen Chhour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Chair. If we are unable to understand the debate that\u2019s going on in this Chamber, how are we supposed to debate properly?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246b1728d22dd42c3abf470b1644453b8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The interpreters were with us; we\u2019re just trying to find out why the technology isn\u2019t working. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022012531b395e74089ba6ec159b172290f\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON\u003C/span\u003E: Hei whakautu i t\u0113r\u0101, ko te reo M\u0101ori te reo matua o t\u0113nei whenua. [To answer that, M\u0101ori language is the main language of this land.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb9c53902e0342dba0c156c54519208d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s coming through now. If you want an interpretation, it is coming through. Taea koe te k\u014Drero M\u0101ori tonu. [You are able to speak M\u0101ori still.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b989fb9de5be4223a21de298ae34906d\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Kia ora t\u0101tou, t\u0113r\u0101 pea me reo rua ahau kia ng\u0101wari te haere o te p\u014D nei. Ahakoa te roa o te noho. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E[Greetings all, perhaps I should speak in both languages to simplify my speech this evening. Despite the lengthy sitting.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a75098c7eb1140e6a2a5a6da60422e15\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Kua hoki mai r\u0101tou. [They have returned.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6f59f9d262f453c8af424461dce64b7\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON\u003C/span\u003E: Kua hoki mai? [Have they returned?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a583c504a65436fbfa0559d5c6f3329\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: \u0100e. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248c5386954384e93b23828d4bf7906bb\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON\u003C/span\u003E: OK, ka pai. N\u014D reira ko aku k\u014Drero e p\u0101 ana ki ng\u0101 t\u0101paetanga k\u014Drero hou a Huhana m\u014D te rua rau m\u0101 waru e p\u0101 ana ki te w\u0101hanga wh\u0101, waeture toru. Ki runga i te wh\u0101rangi kotahi rau rima tekau m\u0101 waru nei. N\u014D reira ko t\u0101ku k\u014Drero e p\u0101 ana ki ng\u0101 taka kino. Te takahitanga o te taiao me taku hiahia kia t\u0101piri w\u0113tahi atu k\u014Drero p\u0101 ana ki t\u0113nei waiture nama toru nei. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003ET\u0113r\u0101 pea me huri ahau ki roto i te reo P\u0101keh\u0101 kia m\u0101rama katoa t\u0101tou. Kia kuhu mai te katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E[So what I am saying about Huhana\u2019s contribution on Amendment Paper 208 amending Schedule 4, clause 3, on page 158\u2014so my speech is about the disadvantages. The disadvantages to the environment and my want to add my contributions towards this clause 3. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EPerhaps I should turn to the English language so that we all understand. So that we can all be included.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EI won\u2019t translate what I just said in the reo, but I do want to talk to the Amendment Paper that I have in front of me, which is Amendment Paper 208. It\u2019s an opportunity for us to really look at Schedule 4, going into clause 3(a), on page 158 of Amendment Paper 238.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira ko t\u0101ku e k\u012B nei [So what I am saying is that it says], \u201Can assessment of the actual or potential effects on the environment:\u201D. My amendment goes to the heart of looking at \u0113tahi takahitanga o te taiao [adverse effects on the environment], so that when there are any significant or adverse impacts or effects on the environment, there is an opportunity within the application to look at alternative locations. \u0112tahi atu w\u0101hi mahi nei me k\u012B te tirohia haere t\u0113r\u0101 pea ka taea te mahi ki w\u0101hi k\u0113\u2014so you can look at alternative locations, but also maybe some of the mahi could be done in a different way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EThis isn\u2019t something in terms of the limitation of paragraph (a) that we have in front of us; it\u2019s just examining the actual and potential effects on the environment. This is just an expansion of it to require the applicant to examine the impacts on the environment\u2014and for the panel and the Ministers\u2014and then look at alternative locations and methods for undertaking the activity and raise that, because in some of these projects, it might be found that the methods being undertaken by the applicant may be harmful for the taiao for that particular purpose. There might be other ways of executing the mahi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EThis amendment is quite, I think, just user-friendly and is just providing a bit more expansion on the opportunity for us to include the provision for alternative locations and also other methods to be considered, and these are safeguards for the environment. These are safeguards also for the developers to have a little bit more space to look at ways in which they might be able to carry out their activities, but it is also for the community, for the hau k\u0101inga, to be able to raise their voice through the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira koia waku t\u0101paetanga k\u014Drero in\u0101ianei, ka heke iho. Kia ora. [So that is what I\u2019d like to add at this stage. Thank you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022 data-id=\u00226976b9da4d144da080b901b9fc672262\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226976b9da4d144da080b901b9fc672262\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00221fc9ac8fd3634aaf8b764c60c7a38c7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221fc9ac8fd3634aaf8b764c60c7a38c7d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I take the next call, I am looking for new material and new arguments, and new debates as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00221e445b8b59cc43329d4de65c500cd1f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e445b8b59cc43329d4de65c500cd1f9\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I have a number of points I would like the Minister in the chair\u2019s, the Hon Shane Jones\u2019, clarification on, but I want to start in terms of two of the amendments. This is in terms of Amendment Paper 190 and Amendment Paper 191 and this is specifically around the steps by the Environmental Protection Authority (EPA) after substantive application lodged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI think one of the first points I would like to make\u2014and I would like to ask the Minister\u2019s consideration on these two Amendment Papers\u2014is the time frame that has been given to the EPA when they are receiving such a substantive application. Now, both of the Amendment Papers\u2014and this amendment is to clause 24F(1) and the second one is around clause 24FB(2). Again, these, for you, Mr Chair, are Amendment Papers 190 and 191.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI think the main issue here is, considering some of the examples that we\u2019re seeing within the 149 projects that are currently in Schedule 2, but also considering that in Schedule 1, we\u2019re talking about opening some of the applications and the referral applications, and potentially later on substantive applications, I am concerned that the EPA may not have the capacity to be able to respond within such a short period of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EFor both of the Amendment Papers, one of the things we\u2019re looking at is extending the 15 working days and the 10 working days respectively to 20 working days. It wouldn\u2019t be a massive extension by any means, but, hopefully, there is something for the Minister to consider and just to alleviate some of those issues and some of those concerns that the EPA may not respond in time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EOne of the other points I would like to mention as well\u2014and I would like the Minister\u2019s clarification on\u2014is actually around clause 31, and particularly around secondary legislation and, in this case, regulation. Now, I want to specifically home in on clause 31(1)(b)(ii), and\u00A0this is around how the Governor-General can make recommendations \u201Cspecifying requirements for a referral application [on] a substantive application, including\u2014information that must be included in the application:\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe clarification I would like from the Minister is about clause 14(3) and clause 14AAA, both of which are exhaustive lists of information that must be included as part of the referral application. But, if we are allowing, by Order in Council, secondary legislation to be made that changes or alters the information that must be included in the application, would it be considered that that this is a \u201CHenry\u00A0VIII\u201D clause that we\u2019re looking at? And how would that be in terms of amending primary legislation? If not, I would like the Minister\u2019s clarification on what is meant by specifying requirements. Are we looking at more information being added or less information being added as part of that exhaustive list in clause 14(3) and clause\u00A014AAA?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EAgain, if this is something that is considered a \u201CHenry VIII\u201D clause, I think that is a serious consideration for this committee. If it\u2019s not, then also what are some of the considerations the\u00A0Minister for Infrastructure will have that we\u2019re not going to be looking at the case of ultra vires when the sort of Order in Council is being made for that particular secondary legislation? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022834fcf9b61cc4222a857bf33d6302969\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022834fcf9b61cc4222a857bf33d6302969\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. I wanted to bring up Amendment Paper 186, which refers to clause 24. In clause 24(3), it lays out the criteria that the Minister for Infrastructure is required to set out if they do \u201Caccept the referral application and refer a project, the notice\u201D. This is about the notice of Minister\u2019s decision on referral application. If the referral application is accepted, there\u2019s certain things the notice must say. One thing that is not included between (a) and (f) is setting out any areas where the application conflicts with any relevant criteria in the Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThis is an Amendment Paper in the name of Scott Willis, my colleague. \u201CIn clause 24(3), after paragraph (ba) (page 41, after line 24), insert: (bb) set out any areas where the application conflicts with any relevant criteria in this Act;\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EJust to make it very, very clear that the notice of the Minister\u2019s decision should set out how the application conflicts if it is accepted for any reason. I\u2019m hoping that the Minister and the Government would consider this amendment and wanted to raise that in this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022 data-id=\u002299649d2658694c5a862c3556354e708a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299649d2658694c5a862c3556354e708a\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002282b3331e6b4148b6a042ec81d2865746\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282b3331e6b4148b6a042ec81d2865746\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The next contribution must be new and it must contain new material. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022 data-id=\u002212693f5a9a2a499b83bba0c5d1701de3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212693f5a9a2a499b83bba0c5d1701de3\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Absolutely. Thank you, Mr Chair. Again, like I\u2019ve been doing the entire time: getting straight to the amendment, talking about the issue, and asking questions of the Minister for Regional Development and whether he\u2019d consider them. So this Amendment Paper 183, this refers to clause 23. Now, these are the circumstances under which a Minister specifies matters for an accepted referral application. It\u2019s really simple, suggesting: \u201CIn clause 23, after subclause (3) (page 40, after line 14), insert: (4) The Minister must specify that the project be publicly notified, and that the notice invite interested persons or groups to make a submission to the panel.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EThis is a really simple amendment that I would like the Minister to consider, because we hear time and time again and we\u2019ve seen now from the projects that are listed in the schedules, which will be going straight through to the expert panel, that these are projects of a significant scale. Many of them have significant environmental adverse effects, and some will have benefits. It\u2019s important\u2014like we\u2019ve seen time and time again\u2014where experts, community, a whole range of individuals actually have the opportunity to input into making the projects and the conditions on the projects fair, robust, and comprehensive, that\u2019s when you get the best outcomes for everyone. The scale and significance of these projects absolutely warrants public notification. We heard that time and time again through the select committee where we heard about this, and I would like the Minister\u2019s consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u002275e9e3a1bf944135859388031bcb673c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275e9e3a1bf944135859388031bcb673c\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Regional Development):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. This question, not unlike others, centres on a key tenet of this legislation: that those who have an entitlement to be integrally involved in the consideration of the panel in granting approval of those that are most affected by the approval, it is not a wide, vague description of who may or may not feel that they are affected by what externalities might flow from the project. This is the whole key point of the bill. For those reasons, obviously we are not going to accept that submission or that proposed amendment. This bill will allow the people to be consulted, providing they represent that circle of interests that are genuinely and most impacted by the decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022 data-id=\u0022794d9a2ba4ea43229ee4e1a7033b9ade\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022794d9a2ba4ea43229ee4e1a7033b9ade\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002232fc33b0eff44e9dba54f999330464b0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9584153173d4728b8b229f869f3d55a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9584153173d4728b8b229f869f3d55a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Part 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221fc174e82c5e40618121d596063b6770\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00224365a7cb423a43bfaa27920ef775c2a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224365a7cb423a43bfaa27920ef775c2a2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Debbie Ngarewa-Packer\u2019s tabled amendment to replace subclause (1) in clause 14 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question is that Debbie Ngarewa-Packer\u2019s remaining tabled amendments to subclause (3) in clause 14 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cc5246dfa4e64127af26a07d45a79e04\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa3f6a763816482cbee7b4b658fb6ce1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa3f6a763816482cbee7b4b658fb6ce1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Scott Willis\u2019 amendment to clause 14(2)(b) set out on Amendment Paper 153 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b833292563e94ea99495becc3abfb99e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002256c2af0ae8644001838f6c75ed9c4ec4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256c2af0ae8644001838f6c75ed9c4ec4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Scott Willis\u2019 amendment to clause 14(3) set out on Amendment Paper 154 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224f64c4501e7142ee81c475b8726609b6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00225d9b20a5bce141b293944d3de77f9073\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d9b20a5bce141b293944d3de77f9073\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Steve Abel\u2019s amendment to clause 14(3)(ba) set out on Amendment Paper 155 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e8da403761324472a48f5719124c14a3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002284cfac7f6d4f45f682c3b247dd2ccd30\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284cfac7f6d4f45f682c3b247dd2ccd30\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Lan Pham\u2019s amendment to clause 14(3)(ba) set out on Amendment Paper 156 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223d7de7ba4fbd4eacaf21364931553a78\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00224fb532aacfdb4a0ab39246236097df07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224fb532aacfdb4a0ab39246236097df07\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Lan Pham\u2019s amendment to clause 14(3)(e) set out on Amendment Paper 157 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229379cd4aa25f4116b28894194983da89\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022377e3d1f7ba646adb676690bbeca074f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022377e3d1f7ba646adb676690bbeca074f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Glen Bennett\u2019s amendments to Part 2 set out on Amendment Paper 141 are out of order as not being consistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that H\u016Bhana Lyndon\u2019s amendment to replace clause 14(3)(ha)(ii) set out on Amendment Paper 158 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220baf6e81631847d384f5287aeeb71db8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b08c431d06cb4acdbf245088d631e876\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b08c431d06cb4acdbf245088d631e876\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that H\u016Bhana Lyndon\u2019s amendment to replace clause 14(3)(ha)(ii) set out on Amendment Paper 159 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221de6be9210904a6cbeb95f7b56eb846a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002298000f2318154ccda41459fba4a846b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298000f2318154ccda41459fba4a846b4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s amendment to clause 14(3)(ha) set out on Amendment Paper 131 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002254080af614794637ba3e470911ed5b7e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d928f960197f4f9fbdcaca2fff75851f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d928f960197f4f9fbdcaca2fff75851f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Lan Pham\u2019s amendment to clause 14(3)(s) set out on Amendment Paper 160 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002286f4f632378e40379d4c9f82c636d360\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002210fc1a99b88a47c48be3a7475b4da6dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210fc1a99b88a47c48be3a7475b4da6dc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Steve Abel\u2019s amendment to clause 14(3)(s) set out on Amendment Paper 161 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228e61dafa789c42a9a9e70870defcd924\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022015a63eadfd649748594cc8512949329\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022015a63eadfd649748594cc8512949329\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Lan Pham\u2019s amendments to Part 2 set out on Amendment Paper 162 are out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that Lan Pham\u2019s amendment to clause 15(1A)(b)(ii) set out on Amendment Paper 163 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222c4b938c4ad14f3693c85caac25f2ec6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2366a24166b47a685135ba8e7f1c176\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2366a24166b47a685135ba8e7f1c176\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Steve Abel\u2019s amendment to clause 16(1) set out on Amendment Paper 164 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee. Celia Wade-Brown\u2019s amendment to insert subclause (2) in clause 16 set out on Amendment Paper 165 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee. Debbie Ngarewa-Packer\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 16 are out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that H\u016Bhana Lyndon\u2019s amendment to insert paragraph (aa) in clause 18A set out on Amendment Paper 166 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221a4245483c3a4b2cbeb7fdbac7930cbe\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00222df621a17a454b2d897bee486264e45c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222df621a17a454b2d897bee486264e45c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Steve Abel\u2019s amendments to clause 19(1) set out on Amendment Paper 167 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022135388ca322c414eac3e30512ad51860\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8c9d9aa7d894c56af2e886b2e836a79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8c9d9aa7d894c56af2e886b2e836a79\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Steve Abel\u2019s amendment clauses 19A and 22A set out on Amendment Paper 168 are out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that Debbie Ngarewa-Packer\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 19A be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ea224a7d69be4554bf6b3a99da922e6f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e01ed5e545f74d6b91771c96c0c9a24c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e01ed5e545f74d6b91771c96c0c9a24c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Lan Pham\u2019s amendment to clause 19B(2) set out on Amendment Paper 169 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that Lan Pham\u2019s amendments to clause 22A set out on Amendment Paper 170 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002242729ab70f8149548503886b25f1272c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022753022d21f894c689893b48ec74c32ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022753022d21f894c689893b48ec74c32ef\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Lan Pham\u2019s amendment to clause 22A(3)(b) set out on Amendment Paper 171 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022aaf35984ba484c4381576d93149ad1d5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022647d26b754aa40f483f051461d2b922c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022647d26b754aa40f483f051461d2b922c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Lan Pham\u2019s amendment to clause 22A(5) set out on Amendment Paper 172 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225c8f0668fc954410bdc5a4bb9c16adfe\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00229f2e429f4a244afaaaf111951e8aac18\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f2e429f4a244afaaaf111951e8aac18\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s amendments to clause 22B set out on Amendment Paper 132 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e7b02770ef9048a29d8e5b83ad073965\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00223f5d0e60ccc34e7ab3dd531b74ab0523\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f5d0e60ccc34e7ab3dd531b74ab0523\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is\u2014[Interruption] Can we have quiet during voting, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that Debbie Ngarewa-Packer\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 22B to insert new paragraphs (c) and (d) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220a9e5538c32c4fb0b15d6f291439c89c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00222a206e7de83b4820a90244f35fbf4bdc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a206e7de83b4820a90244f35fbf4bdc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Steve Abel\u2019s amendments to clause 22B(1) set out on Amendment Paper 173 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d34d50e9d2ba49eaa4d3e385dcacb601\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00226d79a7696ae54b6e9cb4a70b9bf8daae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d79a7696ae54b6e9cb4a70b9bf8daae\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Lan Pham\u2019s amendment to clause 22B(2) set out on Amendment Paper 174 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022253aadf3a794465cbfe86f85984ea161\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022fba2729b641e47b0ad79784eda3a412f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fba2729b641e47b0ad79784eda3a412f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Scott Willis\u2019 amendments to clause 22B(2) set out on Amendment Paper 176 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224e0a31125c084d108a00657eb3cb6178\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00227074b63e935141038cbf4f7a4f9183d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227074b63e935141038cbf4f7a4f9183d6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Steve Abel\u2019s amendment to clause 22B(2)(a)(v) set out on Amendment Paper 177 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cba663b4d0a248b084c06259da95a205\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002242abf465ee2a47ffbb5276c9ec8e7114\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242abf465ee2a47ffbb5276c9ec8e7114\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Steve Abel\u2019s amendment to clause 22B(2)(a)(vi) set out on Amendment Paper 180 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022320735a02dfc4c3b8f3475c1e0edda3a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00228a78a560d3c14fca9e1db62f940c2a3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a78a560d3c14fca9e1db62f940c2a3b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Julie Anne Genter\u2019s amendment to clause 22B(2)(a) set out on Amendment Paper 179 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226d29662a66e44be899bfbf6407525de0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00225369e3dfb6bc4c738fd4f31204348dc6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225369e3dfb6bc4c738fd4f31204348dc6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Lan Pham\u2019s amendment to clause 22B(2)(a) set out on Amendment Paper 178 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022065c5a536db6433bb96d338cf2ab81e7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00229bd0ef7fed744f5088bfd40d44034122\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229bd0ef7fed744f5088bfd40d44034122\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Lan Pham\u2019s amendment to clause 22B(4) set out on Amendment Paper 181 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u2019s amendments to clause 22B(4) set out on Amendment Paper 182 are out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that Lan Pham\u2019s amendment to clause 23 set out on Amendment Paper 183 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bdd49d82d9114683b3a8b9c3ca69a3e0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00225ad1e402750f4dd8ba07a7b59b578190\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ad1e402750f4dd8ba07a7b59b578190\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Celia Wade-Brown\u2019s amendment to clause 24 set out on Amendment Paper 184 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002239813abb810b42618b4e3ab12cf8dbcd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00220535f9ca1dae49a1a39459c37e1e46ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220535f9ca1dae49a1a39459c37e1e46ba\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Lan Pham\u2019s amendments to clause 24(2) set out on Amendment Paper 185 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d7e93e9f7466414d9128f6f930fb03ca\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00226486eb81303d40199d06147fc101c671\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226486eb81303d40199d06147fc101c671\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Scott Willis\u2019 amendment to clause 24(3) set out on Amendment Paper 186 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002297f4d44f5a4845b483f06f945b4b40a4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022843515ee56804f4696db6368a0539c05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022843515ee56804f4696db6368a0539c05\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Lan Pham\u2019s amendments to Part 2 set out on Amendment Paper 187 are out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that Celia Wade-Brown\u2019s amendment to clause 24D(4) set out on Amendment Paper 188 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bf6d4776e64d4b0996c1fad4ca4ce3db\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff6a63453a004978b2206148332e23ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff6a63453a004978b2206148332e23ea\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Steve Abel\u2019s amendment to clause 24E(1) set out on Amendment Paper 189 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003ELan Pham\u2019s amendment to clause 24F(1) set out on Amendment Paper 190 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that Lan Pham\u2019s amendment to clause 24FB(2) set out on Amendment Paper 191 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222554b663d31046ea9e4fd4367083fae4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00225f4eb020a6c84a79a291bc5c98fc6b60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f4eb020a6c84a79a291bc5c98fc6b60\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Lan Pham\u2019s amendment to clause 24G(2) set out on Amendment Paper 192 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a616386ae1604a0294df6eda7b52f76b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022896b5e86d0844d3d80a1ec66a97018c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022896b5e86d0844d3d80a1ec66a97018c7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Scott Willis\u2019 amendment to clause 24G(3) set out on Amendment Paper 193 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that Steve Abel\u2019s amendment to clause 24M(2) set out on Amendment Paper 194 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022611a8b871d374370b664f75b1d6aa0fe\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab5ca8080b1e48e09989dd8c974122a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab5ca8080b1e48e09989dd8c974122a3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s amendment to clause 24M(2) set out on Amendment Paper 142 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225f342d0160ef424f9181c79690547e2f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00225b8a292f3a6441e5b7865ab359dfa42c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b8a292f3a6441e5b7865ab359dfa42c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Scott Willis\u2019 amendment to clause 24O(2) set out on Amendment Paper 195 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cfdb8fe95ec344938d74bbf91b3d7dd0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e751e1f7993f4368b19c6c741e0674a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e751e1f7993f4368b19c6c741e0674a8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Glen Bennett\u2019s amendment to delete subclause\u00A0(2) in clause 24Q set out on Amendment Paper 134 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that Glen Bennett\u2019s remaining amendments to replace clause 24P and amend clause 24Q set out on Amendment Paper 134 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f91fa4d7bcf74727a4bb6140c86c9c40\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00220a409be4bcb1432a9a87c3f8868c32bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a409be4bcb1432a9a87c3f8868c32bf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Celia Wade-Brown\u2019s amendments to clause 24Q(1) set out on Amendment Paper 196 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002296527a2b33534443a70d202a2196e952\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022418cfb81847b4306b72e64ae08d98cfc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022418cfb81847b4306b72e64ae08d98cfc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Steve Abel\u2019s amendment to clause 24Q(4) set out on Amendment Paper 197 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a6676300b2774e419c8aad3cc5fd9e3d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00228e5410d5c6814de29dd1f351859e8749\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e5410d5c6814de29dd1f351859e8749\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Lan Pham\u2019s amendment to clause 24Q(4)(b) set out on Amendment Paper 198 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d40445e2edd94690b33df83b38dd540f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d41138fb90124d87bdd6d49192a55465\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d41138fb90124d87bdd6d49192a55465\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Lan Pham\u2019s amendments to clause 24UA(1) set out on Amendment Paper 199 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022104ecb7c0e7541c0aeb39ddd519c12c7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bd21cd38314a4fc590934a9e313e41dc\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u2019 amendment to clause 24W(4)(a) set out on Amendment Paper 200 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u2019s amendment to clause 24WD(1)(c) set out on Amendment Paper 201 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe question is that Steve Abel\u2019s remaining amendment to clause 24WD(1) set out on Amendment Paper 201 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf1e4026495042fa94f388d87d0421bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf1e4026495042fa94f388d87d0421bd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001182\u0022\u003EThe Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s amendments to delete clause 24WB and amend clause 24WD set out on Amendment Paper 133 are out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00225781840a377246398c74d7823b873ee3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225781840a377246398c74d7823b873ee3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Lan Pham\u2019s amendments to clause 24WD set out on Amendment Paper 202 are out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that Lan Pham\u2019s amendment to clause 24X(1)(a)(iv) set out on Amendment Paper 203 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226599467089a84180835b2e66a43a8c43\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1cb71ee23b240c5be10847a233cd771\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1cb71ee23b240c5be10847a233cd771\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Steve Abel\u2019s amendments to clause 24X set out on Amendment Paper 204 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b04cc2becf914bd89e7f4fcc95305792\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002280b888d666114de99fce097018dea527\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280b888d666114de99fce097018dea527\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Scott Willis\u2019 amendment to clause 24X(4) set out on Amendment Paper 205 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe Hon Peeni Henare\u2019s amendment to clause 27A set out on Amendment Paper 135 is out of order as not being consistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002251cbba4085ba4d108feae2c022bfe335\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bc8a93a3bbad49ae919f46015763b878\u0022\u003ESchedule 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022978a995ccd724002b2dd3a7a82cf6245\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022978a995ccd724002b2dd3a7a82cf6245\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Now we vote on Schedule 1. There is no debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Schedule 1 set out on Amendment Paper 238 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022850ec9c23e6b4f2f83e4892ead106f35\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002272629a46bf6f43969cb50de9eb22f382\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 1 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a3c7c7e5e575452485e4a6e27d72e021\u0022\u003ESchedule 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9e2ff576ecc4206a42f40af89e6cc6b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9e2ff576ecc4206a42f40af89e6cc6b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: All right, members, we are now on to Schedule 2, which is also no debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Minister\u2019s tabled amendments to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 relating to Balmoral Water Storage and to Macraes Phase Four be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224756e81cec41435988acb203c52f02cd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments to the amendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00220c0660c147e243fc9bec148da0a8c705\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c0660c147e243fc9bec148da0a8c705\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Lan Pham\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the Macraes Phase Four project is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that Lan Pham\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the Project Kea project be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cf5c2cf1cc754d42bf94a35a9ddef44a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe9afcbec4e04fdc8a1bdad3deac3a36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe9afcbec4e04fdc8a1bdad3deac3a36\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Lan Pham\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the Bendigo-Ophir Gold Project be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002230cdc451032340d2a117d97b7f8b7bde\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022944f7ea163884032978efb2eb5e98f2d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022944f7ea163884032978efb2eb5e98f2d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Lan Pham\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the Klondyke storage project be agreed to\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224df5fa22793d42e78b16bc0eb70dffde\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022be2579e5fd04456c903b82f9d10508a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be2579e5fd04456c903b82f9d10508a4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the Summerset Retirement Village, Mosgiel project be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228b82a93b4bfa4ad08c95314aba353c47\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022367bd23f05bb461481dff30b13416a78\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022367bd23f05bb461481dff30b13416a78\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Celia Wade-Brown\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the Tukituki Water Security project be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221f406b355a444e368e2aa8f91f06032d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022750ff7d977a047e5831542d55f2255d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022750ff7d977a047e5831542d55f2255d9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Steve Abel\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the Taranaki VTM project be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002204d2ad54b7494d72a2ef61416428d82e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca268e82e1f242d1a434bd157a39c636\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca268e82e1f242d1a434bd157a39c636\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Steve Abel\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the Buller Plateaux Continuation project be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022890fa35cdacd4d01bed62e6c466903fa\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002245d46a5cce11401480af9d86de4de7f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245d46a5cce11401480af9d86de4de7f3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Steve Abel\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the Rotowaro Mine Continuation project be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002235b87f3c81e64f69a40a580fae7a82fa\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002244a8569c974c4673bf9bd3556ddebfb8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244a8569c974c4673bf9bd3556ddebfb8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to McCallum Bros Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c98bfb602660444c8674346a5c89f176\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5a29c0907e845bdb2d6fdad47de2982\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5a29c0907e845bdb2d6fdad47de2982\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Mercury NZ Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226eaf0194f4c84c84b4a645814895a05c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002274ca09d2de9540bc96be955b930d7fa8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274ca09d2de9540bc96be955b930d7fa8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to South Island Resource Recovery Limited is out of order as being the same in substance as a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Sanford Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a63758f66c7846d082c7739af2694d00\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2998ccb2bc84ae180254d446da99c9c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2998ccb2bc84ae180254d446da99c9c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to OceanaGold (New Zealand) Limited is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Northport Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bbc2f31a9ec447b9b11ca381be3fe445\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8d4058425694a73a2f12ca99c6ccaa9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8d4058425694a73a2f12ca99c6ccaa9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Katikati Quarries (2001) Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bb8b42afadec48a2b728227c60e897c9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002246688bce38db4602922e70dac367e190\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246688bce38db4602922e70dac367e190\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Mana Ahuriri Holdings Limited Partnership be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022813f207edbbe454e9309de9276fc14e4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022bae6d310e8704567aad314df309d5465\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bae6d310e8704567aad314df309d5465\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to KM \u0026amp; MG Holdings Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227f30cf46049b4d65b04304c618993a3c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d32812ed9a96452da44faf091a3a2e31\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d32812ed9a96452da44faf091a3a2e31\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to RCL Homestead Bay Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e77c12b5dabf4c6586c7af12a27e7994\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00223ddbddfaf6c241e78192a96df3a71a60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ddbddfaf6c241e78192a96df3a71a60\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Rangitoopuni Developments Limited Partnership be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e625c102460845edad98cf418dde0173\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca55248caebe439e9e83a5a1fedabafd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca55248caebe439e9e83a5a1fedabafd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Mt Iron Junction Limited be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022dd288aa2b1ed428abf5072e0dda205dd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022334baa57a33145ae95bdaabba4dae22e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022334baa57a33145ae95bdaabba4dae22e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to ImpactMarine (Bluff) Limited be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ed56d550cad341d6978ba25f7bbffb2f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00228947cda52a4b4e7eac2a2445b435ab23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228947cda52a4b4e7eac2a2445b435ab23\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Harmony Energy NZ #8 Limited be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002258cd9a6717604d6e8ce828310242ffdf\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4c8a10760b34c10b948208c9e66a343\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4c8a10760b34c10b948208c9e66a343\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Suburban Estates Limited, Anne Lois Stokes, Brian James Stokes be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229b647584357244dab12b6e52fa518554\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00222b6340743fea4707b6543c1c7245223a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b6340743fea4707b6543c1c7245223a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Lochindorb Wind Limited Partnership be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227cf4f1c2daaf476a867ed5bfdaa66ab9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002274a0976c061a4cb58ba2d5733d137c4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274a0976c061a4cb58ba2d5733d137c4f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Tauhara North No. 2 Trust be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221627b8e1d14245f3a50c5ca79f038a87\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002297a43efae53c4cc7bb40a5fbe8813a78\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297a43efae53c4cc7bb40a5fbe8813a78\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Te Aupouri Fisheries Management Limited be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221241c3ce7e304a9f9abf2c9b5f7f3dea\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022243b48091a0e44f1a4ab66be8ed2832e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022243b48091a0e44f1a4ab66be8ed2832e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Glen Bennett\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Bell Road Limited Partnership be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220ed42f2f19cf426d961a3fdf4c11856e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022321027cc958740bc9c4aef9931fd0266\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022321027cc958740bc9c4aef9931fd0266\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Glen Bennett\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Coronet Village Limited be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222596ac325048429a91732b23ac9323fe\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3136bff61c740fe8b63a9b4d69e7e39\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3136bff61c740fe8b63a9b4d69e7e39\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Glen Bennett\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Eastland Generation Limited be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229a018139162c4977a19c8b2ecf3ffdbe\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d88a56e6c60f400db1b4ad56fbd26a26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d88a56e6c60f400db1b4ad56fbd26a26\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Glen Bennett\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Energy Farms Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002289e1ff40dff1454f95022ac3be856dcb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00225ded44d5f0b14d869aa84f96413143ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ded44d5f0b14d869aa84f96413143ad\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Megan Woods\u2019 tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Stevenson Aggregates Limited be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229939cc8fc1aa4d51b02746158cec50db\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022efd431df78304c7c80babfad33cf1dcd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022efd431df78304c7c80babfad33cf1dcd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Megan Woods\u2019 tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to NZSki Limited be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e7a623b03c084b8b8a0cb86e794852e0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f250df2328bf431095b658d6d73f720c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f250df2328bf431095b658d6d73f720c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Megan Woods\u2019 tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Kaimai Wind Farm Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c32c16c1736341a8bd0070808031e417\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00225f85e3e582fd4aeaa603cd274b61fb23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f85e3e582fd4aeaa603cd274b61fb23\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Megan Woods\u2019 tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Harmony Energy NZ #6 Limited be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bf9a2e61131b40d4a28717542d884c53\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022809bc18ba0ab4fda95aa064e426cda43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022809bc18ba0ab4fda95aa064e426cda43\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Megan Woods\u2019 tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Harmony Energy NZ #5 Limited be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022415f8bc35718427aaad867c39ee4d84f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002252f435e4dc554f60b6004ac08483ec15\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002252f435e4dc554f60b6004ac08483ec15\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Megan Woods\u2019 tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Taharoa Ironsands Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002260dc27abb29f407b88a45117edfe1fe0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa57e644059b4a2585868ba9804445d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa57e644059b4a2585868ba9804445d3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Megan Woods\u2019 tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Tararua Wind Power Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022429a5ff31d004a1885403b81a11b0fe7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022aec90c55477e4ac08f4156976836cec6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aec90c55477e4ac08f4156976836cec6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Megan Woods\u2019 tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Clifford Bay Marine Farms Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225fe31b05a186428287c42fd807431529\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00223ce2c6e0e98543058b79e536430f1f4e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ce2c6e0e98543058b79e536430f1f4e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Amuri Irrigation Company Limited is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Summerset Village (Mosgiel) Limited is out of order as being the same in substance as a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Te Awa Lakes Unincorporated Joint Venture between Perry Group Limited and Schick Group Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c8006bf0ffd1430b96c616788187944d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00222df0f55785794a1eae6955d2e626c3af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222df0f55785794a1eae6955d2e626c3af\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to BT Mining Limited is out of order as being the same in substance as a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Peeni Henare\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Silver Creek Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a75ce106f4a047a1b4000d7c84fd4117\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a75ce106f4a047a1b4000d7c84fd4117\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Kingsgate Holdings Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bc8744259fc346e68829bd90e816b8ab\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00222db6fd5b01b943c3960bb4f53f45aec2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222db6fd5b01b943c3960bb4f53f45aec2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Peeni Henare\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Stratford Park Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c880b3f8dd264bad86b8367cc35d048f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022acaafb6e27ff4a5f8c09e5ae4fed9a26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acaafb6e27ff4a5f8c09e5ae4fed9a26\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Megan Woods\u2019 tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Kings Quarry Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022de1bb5ca7d964945880dca6e042002c6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8eca174019c4594861730962d90edf9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8eca174019c4594861730962d90edf9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Tauriko Property Group Limited Partnership be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226d505f04a1394abba4fa91fc8a6d573e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b3be0e797b64b4da2f8efd544ed9cd1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Malcolm\u2019s Rest Limited, Kathryn Seeney, Lloyd Seeney be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f28e1856b34847a6b540d86e57bded3c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226db987cb862e45a89a3f2c407009bf6b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to North Eastern Investments Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226860f8f3efdf44edb0460b229cca9e3e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbc90af36e864ae19156c898b819353e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Golden Ridge Farm Limited, Golden Ridge Park Limited, Industre Property Rua Limited, Southern Park Agri Development Limited, Theodoor Bongers Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ad046d1d13d542a492e000395bad7d0d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f560a233bdd4105864f291583ed9a8c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to KA Waimanawa Limited Partnership be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002246b1997dedbb48f9a6eb26048fa646ef\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279b1545894ed4f66a0cb9e980ce887dc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Beachlands South Limited Partnership be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022993d436f25e14b349c75e999a82b89f8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226471907fae3342f4947cdef9b0cd0e1d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Ginny Andersen\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Ben Dormer be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022af94b2f24925413287e7a25423835e7f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc90a85923ab4c35a154fa1ec6352ec7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Ginny Andersen\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Bathurst Coal Limited, Bathurst Resources Limited, BT Mining Limited, Buller Coal Limited is out of order as being the same in substance as a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Ginny Andersen\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Black Point Solar Farm be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022de54c44b187c489182bdd0e111b465d1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ff8ed8cf62f4bb9a4589c542c959674\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Ginny Andersen\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Birchs Village Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221d13b83416b742279188a9361a579943\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a0cffc578ab435395f62535dc6dff19\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Maia Properties Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c502f76d782f4a9e903b1e751f4f8147\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022798c4d865aae49be8a1b5e709b275e39\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Manawa Energy Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002244ad6c20f8ab4d23accbf0fa9827fdf7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00226e14efc6cb39475f9c4cc59f914f430b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e14efc6cb39475f9c4cc59f914f430b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Matakanui Gold Limited is out of order as being the same in substance as a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Kiwi Property Holdings No. 2 Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022de4c991b87244f1fb0150021f9142dc2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002275e88c168c084dc19237a7ad9c77d66a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275e88c168c084dc19237a7ad9c77d66a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Winton Land Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220fb5dc9ec75b452baca9d516d7e61178\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00223dbba6d57b7741929b361213800d3048\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223dbba6d57b7741929b361213800d3048\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Southern Screenworks Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022506ce2dad45446d186564599d7ab7500\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022640215abf65c4fa3a5ba902e436955aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022640215abf65c4fa3a5ba902e436955aa\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to National Green Steel Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022eefa9fac9e974b0daa9202c73fe9d7ae\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022c30da6cbd4634433a9c770f1e5e7445c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c30da6cbd4634433a9c770f1e5e7445c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete\u00A0the lines referring to Gibbston Valley Station, High Definition Development, LLC be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022853f332b934e4d41b6b5582b0a27b562\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022e825dcd2024e4b2e833f54ed6e2bc97c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e825dcd2024e4b2e833f54ed6e2bc97c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Glen Bennett\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to SolarGen Joint Venture (Genesis Energy Limited and FRV Australia) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227e346317e5624b56adf1c48dc1da6994\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022a622123a5d21445ebffb93db24c138cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a622123a5d21445ebffb93db24c138cf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Glen Bennett\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Precinct Properties New Zealand Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ca267b7808e044cc9bc39185c0139950\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022a571ed828d7f46a4854ce60e11ccc262\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a571ed828d7f46a4854ce60e11ccc262\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Glen Bennett\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Mid Canterbury Water Storage Limited is out of order as being the same in substance as a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Glen Bennett\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to K B Contracting \u0026amp; Quarries Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224e477d513c7f49c5ba867ae963bea23c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022ecf58af1a4f34da49378a4634d7d6255\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ecf58af1a4f34da49378a4634d7d6255\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Lodestone Energy Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d97ffa36b8b041ec809084e3a259229d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00226d16b278b6de46a3bd7ce754e5558a02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d16b278b6de46a3bd7ce754e5558a02\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Andrew William Simpson, Karen Frances Simpson be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022dc1bc8dc5ae04e0fbf6444ca113083ca\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022d442b3949dc444caa73780cb86ab676d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d442b3949dc444caa73780cb86ab676d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Blackmans Creek Holdings Limited No.1 Limited Partnership be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cbc414804b4247169bbb66ee57f8177f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00229449d392f5cf49d4b71e223f0cdb159d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229449d392f5cf49d4b71e223f0cdb159d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Fulton Hogan Land Development Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d603e18f2483489c80679f2dda6dd57a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00220aef9996bdfc40a0843081ae30694c95\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220aef9996bdfc40a0843081ae30694c95\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Trans-Tasman Resources Limited is out of order as being the same in substance as a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Transpower New Zealand Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225d201eeb408443f595b4719372698e1d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022a379348847634db58a77699d6717fe4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a379348847634db58a77699d6717fe4d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Tory Hill Trust be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227ad0e8a6e2e84de8b19bbe5d0544cc83\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002200efe56084d14bc193204cefdf864821\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200efe56084d14bc193204cefdf864821\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to TiGa Minerals and Metals Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002272392bcbe0854063a34e77817a66a6a9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00226f41327377144ffb83fd327b4653d17c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f41327377144ffb83fd327b4653d17c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to The Wellington Company Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c634570ffd474d038f911b9a5077e408\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022add9a0a180e54488b36ab69f3a2a9c63\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022add9a0a180e54488b36ab69f3a2a9c63\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Ginny Andersen\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Vineway Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229fa9251984084f5296930d5f45d39df9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00222079154d120f48ba8caa3e60d1251292\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222079154d120f48ba8caa3e60d1251292\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Glen Bennett\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Waikanae North Developments Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221df5a810f53c4d75bd0c22005254e32e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022020a48622e7545d09c6dffc6ea589255\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022020a48622e7545d09c6dffc6ea589255\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Glen Bennett\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Westpower Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a5f114ced9d8403a9f41ff0609121004\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002287c7c4f44c1e4bac808cd35eddff4b1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287c7c4f44c1e4bac808cd35eddff4b1c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to The Guildford Timber Company Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223ad8c650466c4987a4366a9833532400\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2a3eef1341a4f62810619086415b460\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2a3eef1341a4f62810619086415b460\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to The Hills Holdings Limited, The Hills Residences Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224e910c533eef4eec9011a8e14f78cd49\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00221bc70cd6f67e474893e35019eaa631a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221bc70cd6f67e474893e35019eaa631a5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Carter Group Limited be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223018942ab6f347e4a35b7319dc9eceea\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002255949576eeb5492896b63347b0e40eee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255949576eeb5492896b63347b0e40eee\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 to delete the lines referring to Winstone Aggregates be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cd8491c4aaa24cd0b28bab9e6d6d3262\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7237585de424a629bed44458f70bc93\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7237585de424a629bed44458f70bc93\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 238 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002244c4c99ee2304e5ebfc21b087b3aba19\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment as amended be agreed\u00A0to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e0ebd6a5c0c745f793b038bd64423862\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 2 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220c1b26af14ad4fe490fbf355336b63e3\u0022\u003ESchedule 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002263609369484e47819757717b3e67dbbd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263609369484e47819757717b3e67dbbd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Schedule 3 set out on Amendment Paper 238 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022518c10f66b664c22b522c693adb97692\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022930f035d2d044cf79683c20ca1bff51c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022930f035d2d044cf79683c20ca1bff51c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Duncan Webb\u2019s amendment to clause 4(1) of Schedule 3 set out on Amendment Paper 136 be agreed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fd788d1706974d2e9d5793be166713cf\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022b549a65d26254b8898ea0baf8c7ea1b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b549a65d26254b8898ea0baf8c7ea1b3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Celia Wade-Brown\u2019s amendment to delete \u201C, in consultation with the Minister,\u201D in clause 4(1) of Schedule 3 set out on Amendment Paper 206 is out of order as being the same in substance as a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Celia Wade-Brown\u2019s remaining amendment to clause 4(1) of Schedule 3 set out on Amendment Paper 206 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220714fec978504e26a9ec319405a581f2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee21b41dbe0240919224a0de4db877e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee21b41dbe0240919224a0de4db877e6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that H\u016Bhana Lyndon\u2019s amendment to clause 7(1A) of Schedule 3 set out on Amendment Paper 207 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223ccfafdd46ea4c7f88e91c86b4b17d24\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b67556bf2f3c465a88b993fb4617e6b9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Schedule 3 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 3 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e0f7013f9baf4ab6b8308dc7dab792cf\u0022\u003ESchedule 3A\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022575bbde94bbe45e3b47ac796de610412\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022575bbde94bbe45e3b47ac796de610412\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendment to Schedule 3A set out on Amendment Paper 238 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225fbe839b8e394bd4a7c3e8c1ff10f808\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002283c75a218af24370893fdb38dae372c1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 3A as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 3A as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c37ecd224d464ab2832be2912f7b5c87\u0022\u003ESchedule 4\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00226ef3df0484ea46f4a86b681dd7ffe857\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ef3df0484ea46f4a86b681dd7ffe857\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Schedule 4 set out on Amendment Paper 238 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220bcc497377f74f85ade8b012d8c53098\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4606d9ccf9e4a9696ee4ab5639d2769\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4606d9ccf9e4a9696ee4ab5639d2769\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that H\u016Bhana Lyndon\u2019s amendment to clause 3(1) of Schedule 4 set out on Amendment Paper 208 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002253e8f9c8135841f6966c0339eb42f81e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022a173c4de7c2f44b3889f510a4049d72b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a173c4de7c2f44b3889f510a4049d72b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s amendments to Schedule 4 set out on Amendment Paper 137 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223f060e3ab98f43889b9cda2e9a6ef533\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002246ce5b3c727c4cceb8cfd8016a6390ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246ce5b3c727c4cceb8cfd8016a6390ae\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Lan Pham\u2019s amendment to clause 12(1) of Schedule 4 set out on Amendment Paper 209 is out of order as being the same as a previous amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Lan Pham\u2019s amendment to clause 17(1) of Schedule 4 set out on Amendment Paper 209 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223a363e36385843b281fb41aa8ed0e2c0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022de4c277026704773bb210ca2859c3598\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de4c277026704773bb210ca2859c3598\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Steve Abel\u2019s amendment to clause 16(3)(a) of Schedule 4 set out on Amendment Paper 210 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002243c1c50393e343ebb2ab4b25351c8ad2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002294e57a264b9d42f5bd41c2dfb5eb57c8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 4 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 4 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c630e31e0d014daa9464a413b9d4887f\u0022\u003ESchedule 5\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022f12397589c014f21abbb0690910ed5b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f12397589c014f21abbb0690910ed5b2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s tabled amendments to the amendments to Schedule 5 set out on Amendment Paper 238 be agreed\u00A0to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002232e41a01273e4fe3a3dfa1b3f537cc3d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments to the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments to the amendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab1befb6278d4ef4ad79de5bdffd320a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab1befb6278d4ef4ad79de5bdffd320a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Schedule 5 set out on Amendment Paper 238 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225e5adfaf231c491588e31ebf230b5078\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022c713984ae6c0499784d79052deb4874f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c713984ae6c0499784d79052deb4874f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s amendment to clause 17D in Schedule 5 set out on Amendment Paper 137 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s remaining amendments to Schedule 5 set out on Amendment Paper 137 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002287822a4fd6a04dccaccf4d6eb030e32f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022270d852ce1e0426fb192ec97fdb36b60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022270d852ce1e0426fb192ec97fdb36b60\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Lan Pham\u2019s amendments to Schedule 5 set out on Amendment Paper 209 are out of order as being the same as a previous amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s amendments to clause 5(1) of Schedule 5 set out on Amendment Paper 143 are out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ELan Pham\u2019s amendment to delete Part 3 of Schedule 5 set out on Amendment Paper 162 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ELan Pham\u2019s amendment to clause 17A of Schedule 5 set out on Amendment Paper 211 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ELan Pham\u2019s amendment to replace clause 17D(2) of Schedule 5 set out on Amendment Paper 212 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a1318b5ab72c4e1280115cf2e87f7aa6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 5 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 5 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d3046e71d6d949429a7a9706fe445be5\u0022\u003ESchedule 6\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002291973ef94dfc4ccabbd3038da1ff189b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291973ef94dfc4ccabbd3038da1ff189b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Schedule 6 set out on Amendment Paper 238 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022daa0445e380640cda54bf752f99d0b64\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022aeb36306d2dd42bcbffaa1d0eae834d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aeb36306d2dd42bcbffaa1d0eae834d7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s amendment to Schedule 6 set out on Amendment Paper 137 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c630bcf4e3bb441499be45c02efa895e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00223e9734fe4c994c03a88919bb6ca644a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e9734fe4c994c03a88919bb6ca644a9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Lan Pham\u2019s amendment to Schedule 6 set out on Amendment Paper 209 is out of order as being the same as a previous amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224b98cf1828c14a1ba588a0af9e5f5fa7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 6 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 6 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a3d56ee2a95d41ec90a33d711b5a81a1\u0022\u003ESchedule 7\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc73c4f6282f4bc2881fc0f4dbd66262\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc73c4f6282f4bc2881fc0f4dbd66262\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Schedule 7 set out on Amendment Paper 238 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c2e0c113412948a8ab8e92f3b04de8fd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022b45fdd3dc44646558015cf383aa2c2a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b45fdd3dc44646558015cf383aa2c2a4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s amendment to Schedule 7 set out on Amendment Paper 137 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fc0f1878155a4977a1d57a313d6167c5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022553cc9eb20424a20bc33e44f8695bfcf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022553cc9eb20424a20bc33e44f8695bfcf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Lan Pham\u2019s amendment to Schedule 7 set out on Amendment Paper 209 is out of order as being the same as a previous amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d5f250f6ecb44f108c90508f8af840db\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 7 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 7 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002247b4d27d0f014454b17803818b55c6a4\u0022\u003ENew Schedule 8\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6a4a73abb3d41b488b21220d083737d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6a4a73abb3d41b488b21220d083737d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendment inserting new Schedule 8 set out on Amendment Paper 238 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022740283d1f1fa45afa489eaf98e40b215\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022617dff2622f940a6be93e93847bdf1e3\u0022\u003ESchedule 9\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00228dfd43c9eae74f5f9251f37ebd8f10a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228dfd43c9eae74f5f9251f37ebd8f10a9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Schedule 9 set out on Amendment Paper 238 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cf927b00194545fe85f05716a215887d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd4dcfa894334e5f99ad0152c254d062\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd4dcfa894334e5f99ad0152c254d062\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s amendment to Schedule 9 set out on Amendment Paper 137 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002276b07e3ad2844c9596701ec27d93a3bb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022907ad8581b0248adacbd043b14f02caa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022907ad8581b0248adacbd043b14f02caa\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Lan Pham\u2019s amendment to Schedule 9 set out on Amendment Paper 209 is out of order as being the same as a previous amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002226b40bb1866c4cf280a6f37d2fb531d7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 9 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 9 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f0e3f18ae97947c39c2905681b3a9fd0\u0022\u003ESchedule 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022704d1bbe47c847818dd6a32c5fbbe294\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022704d1bbe47c847818dd6a32c5fbbe294\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s tabled amendments to the amendments to Schedule 10 set out on Amendment Paper 238 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002209117289a544463799742b0013f2d01c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments to the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments to the amendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022d09583cdd06140b680024a8045bdf896\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d09583cdd06140b680024a8045bdf896\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Schedule 10 set out on Amendment Paper 238 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a9409cdfcb0148efbdcc5ac66000940a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022b85c3aa7c21945f2b3aa8be4d5d333b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b85c3aa7c21945f2b3aa8be4d5d333b4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s amendments to Schedule 10 set out on Amendment Paper 137 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002254797145bd1d4d519f3e770206574d52\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00221a079b74909e433c86395c9ba3a8546f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a079b74909e433c86395c9ba3a8546f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Lan Pham\u2019s amendments to Schedule 10 set out on Amendment Paper 209 are out of order as being the same as a previous amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ea0d362e61e94fdeaab94d05f8538252\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 10 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 10 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f451c8718f32459fa36c3b3928c2e4d5\u0022\u003ESchedule 11 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022c37e311027ab4bf5af988ce755847ff1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c37e311027ab4bf5af988ce755847ff1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s amendments to clause 3 of Schedule 11 set out on Amendment Paper 138 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229fd117f1cff74af08ea5cbe74e5c6a66\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f8d8ddc55068454388d6696a2fa9414a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 11 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 11 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224dd5792baa8549db84ac1ced7517b49d\u0022\u003ESchedule 13\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f42953aecfb4423390bfbf9c6aff9910\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 13 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 13 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229d1b2c03dcaa4b8894181f29fc42f19f\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00223a9fbe0bdcf34a5895b21c51116b0dcb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a9fbe0bdcf34a5895b21c51116b0dcb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: We come now to the debate on clauses 1 and 2. This is the debate on clauses 1 and 2, \u201CTitle\u201D and \u201CCommencement\u201D, including the debate on proposed new clause 2A set out on Amendment Paper 145.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00221df73a04763a4b5da6d9ed69cd93c7cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221df73a04763a4b5da6d9ed69cd93c7cc\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, for this opportunity to speak to clause 1. Here we are, after hours of debating this bill, and we are on to the first section where we can really call it what it is. I have an amendment on the Table. It would amend it to be called the \u201CFast-track Public and Private Benefits Bill\u201D, because this is the first bill where a Chair of the committee of the whole House has been overruled by the Speaker to include private benefits in a piece of Government legislation\u2014private benefits which have not been through the ordinary process for a private bill, where they would be required to be promoted, where they would be required to be shared with all members of Parliament, and where they would be required to be shared with the communities that will be affected by this private benefits. No, none of that has happened, and so we should call this what it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWe should also ask the Minister responsible for RMA Reform why he was so shaken when I put to him how Winton Sunfield development is a clear example not only of private benefits\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229aa2c664c07a40479361b39d61e2651b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: So anti-development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227642ea0e18134b39be25c8683c712b19\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014where the private developers are being given a benefit in the uplift of the value of the options, they have to buy land to the tune of tens of millions of dollars when this passes\u2014and the Government MPs on that side are heckling me about it. They\u2019re saying I\u2019m against developers, but that is not what I\u2019m against. This is not a pro-development bill; this is pro some developers to the expense of others. This is a \u201Cpro-housing at the expense of other housing providers\u201D bill. This is a bill about benefiting some over the many.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThis is a bill where I did not put to the Minister my questions. I could have asked him: was it him who solicited the $103,000 donation from Chris and Michaela Meehan, who are directors and shareholders of the Winton Land company? But I didn\u2019t. I could have asked him whether the uplift of tens of millions in value that the Winton Land company will enjoy has any bearing on those donations. I didn\u2019t ask him those questions, but he was still ready to use comments about the parliamentary privilege that we enjoy to try and shut down that debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThis is the only chance that New Zealanders have to understand this connection, because of the way that the Government has introduced this at the eleventh hour. Government members, Opposition members\u2014everyone in this House\u2014has only had that amendment today when it was tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225efcbaa8fae84737806bd66d83f37ef3\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Outrageous!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f3c7a7a53a94d5495ce62292c20369b\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: It is outrageous, Glen Bennett. It\u2019s outrageous that no one has been able to put this through the scrutiny that it deserves, let alone the ordinary legislative process for private bills of this nature, let alone using the ancient rules that apply to private bills in our constitutional framework so that people at least understand when Parliament is making a rule which applies in a big way to only a small group of people\u2014whether those are financial interests, whether those are interests about limiting their rights, whether those are interests that affect only them or a class of people. This is not the appropriate way to make this legislation, and that is why we should change its name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI want to know whether the Minister approached the Speaker, before he made the ruling, about the nature of the ruling he was going to give. I want to know whether the Minister had had a conversation with legal advisers outside of the Government, and I want to know whether that advice was made available to the Speaker too, because this Parliament should know what advice was relied upon to make that ruling\u2014that new ruling\u2014because this is a fresh and new process to introduce private benefit in this way. The Minister can throw his hands in the air and say that every Government bill has some form of private benefit. That is true\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022743954f306fd4bebb9664a8d228f28cb\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, that\u2019s true\u2014true! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231f879f4606b415e9ba796a84bdc55d0\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but there is nothing like this in New Zealand\u2019s legislation before. Let me explain what is true, to the National members heckling me again. What\u2019s true is that every Government bill will have an element of benefit to some people or to some class of persons, but there has never been, at the last hour, donors to the National Party who are included in a huge uplift in the value of their property. That is new\u2014not in the last National Government, not in the National Government before it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThe National Party used to be a party that believes in homeownership for everyone and private developers being able to develop houses that everyone could buy. It was a National Government that wrung its hands over whether private housing grants should go to first-home buyers, but it was decided that that was an appropriate way to change the market. Those policies used to be hard. That\u2019s what the National Government used to discuss around the Cabinet table. That\u2019s what the liberals and the conservatives in the National Government used to debate. Now it\u2019s cronyism and who\u2019s in and who\u2019s out, and who\u2019s benefiting and whose mates are at the table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u002244ca675dd2ee4f1eac9ac3450e1043a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244ca675dd2ee4f1eac9ac3450e1043a6\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Now, I have a number of suggestions for the Minister responsible for RMA Reform to consider about a name change for this bill. The main reason for that is that it\u2019s just the wrong name. It\u2019s the Fast-track Approvals Bill, and that gives the impression\u2014Mr Chair, and to the Minister\u2014that it\u2019s just about speed; that this bill is about process. That is how many submitters saw it when they came and submitted to the Environment Committee, but, no, that is not what this bill is about; it\u2019s actually about getting the things done on that list for pet projects. We\u2019ve heard from my colleague the word \u201Ccronyism\u201D. This is very dangerous. This precedent of naming private people on a list is cronyism, and it is shameful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThe first name choice I have for the Minister that I think more accurately reflects this bill is the \u201CPolluting Pet Projects (And Other Matters) Approvals Bill\u201D, because that is all this bill is about\u2014those pet projects that this Government wants to get done, not the small and medium ones that cause all the time and all the energy and all the expense in the resource management system; no, those big projects that are going to have detrimental effects. Those projects that have already been declined are the ones that this Government wants to push through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EAnother suggested change, if he doesn\u2019t like \u201CPolluting Pet Projects\u201D, is \u201CFast (Removal of Community Input) Environmental Approvals Bill\u201D. Of course, that is another thing that this bill is doing: it\u2019s taking away all community input, whether that\u2019s from mana whenua, whether it\u2019s from Forest \u0026amp; Bird\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef1541d811d34c958c05a4a5f9402edc\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Not true\u2014go read the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243d4c79e64304dfb9888db862eb48e26\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014whether it\u2019s from the wider neighbourhood, that is what this bill does. I suggested\u2014I can hear some heckling members of the National Party, saying \u201CNot true.\u201D Well, they should have been here during the debate, when I specifically asked the Minister if he would include the list of groups of people, from Business New Zealand to Forest \u0026amp; Bird, who were included in the COVID legislation. But, no, he wouldn\u2019t even do that, and that is a disgrace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EA different title would be \u201CApproval for Private Projects in a Public Act Bill\u201D. This goes back to the point that my colleague was making and my point about cronyism. It is very dangerous, the precedent that is in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EIf he doesn\u2019t like that, another title suggestion is \u201CRemoval of Appeal Rights to Fast-track Approvals Bill\u201D. I say that because, at this eleventh hour, we\u2019ve had a substantive amendment to the bill. We got it in the afternoon that we were starting to debate this bill in the committee of the whole House. There are major changes to the appeal rights in that amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWhen I asked the Minister in the chair why it was that groups that had an interest greater than the public were being removed by this Government-tabled amendment, he told me that I was wasting the committee\u2019s time by even asking him. That just shows the disdain this Government has for any proper lawmaking processes. We hear from the Minister in charge of this bill that he has Fitzgerald v Muldoon on his wall; well, he should take it down\u2014he should take it down fast\u2014because this bill does exactly the opposite of what that Minister likes to talk about in terms of good lawmaking and scrutiny.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWe can disagree, but we have to have the time to have that disagreement and to have the arguments. Introducing an amendment at the eleventh hour does not do that, and it does not do it when the Minister in the chair tells me that I\u2019m wasting the committee\u2019s time. He didn\u2019t even get into the judicial review clause; no answer on that\u2014no answer on why there\u2019s only 20 days to do a judicial review. Nothing. That suggestion was the \u201CRemoval of Appeal Rights to Fast-track Approvals Bill\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EAnother title suggestion is \u201CEleventh-hour Changes Avoiding Scrutiny Bill\u201D. That goes to the point I was just making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ddbd6a51aab43079783ed1e8659d68b\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Frivolous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a655880af2e54a1dba0fe7a955cfd8c9\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, members opposite are saying it\u2019s frivolous. It is accurate and it is, again, disgraceful, and they should be embarrassed that they are sitting here at almost half past 11 at night to defend what their Ministers are doing, their Ministers, who would have told them when they were all in Young Nationals, or whatever they were in, \u201COh, we want to defend good processes. We are conservatives.\u201D If you\u2019re a conservative, then you want good lawmaking, surely? You don\u2019t want these radical changes that are happening. What this bill is is radical, and it is radical in all the wrong directions. It\u2019s radical in terms of cronyism, it\u2019s radical in terms of pollution, and it\u2019s radical in terms of undermining the rights of New Zealanders to be involved in their communities and have a say about what\u2019s going on. It\u2019s a disgrace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u00226692f64a7ac4439099d7f68956e1a691\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226692f64a7ac4439099d7f68956e1a691\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve just heard a degree of pettifogging and trivialising that, in my view, is inappropriate and does not become the members. The proposed legislation is of significant importance to progress projects of national and regional importance. The comments reminded me of the Hawke\u2019s Bay secondary school debating final in 1993 between Te Aute College and Woodford House\u2014epic, energetic but, ultimately, full of exaggeration. The title of this bill reflects the policy\u00A0intent designed to speed up the regulatory approvals for nationally and regionally significant projects. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00226ea80db47d8d4ce3ab196db2143eb710\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ea80db47d8d4ce3ab196db2143eb710\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I like what the Minister of Conservation just delivered. However, it is also important to know that, as we are going through this bill, we have had various Ministers sitting in that chair, and for most of it, we had the Minister in question as we were going through this bill methodologically. I think it is really important to mention the fact that it is undemocratic and is completely against the ethos of this House to drop a 235-page amendment on the day of the committee stage where the people of Aotearoa did not get a chance to participate and question during the select committee stage. The Minister cannot deny that that is not OK. That is undemocratic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENot only that, I wasn\u2019t part of the Environment Committee, and when we are looking at this particular bill, overall, we\u2019re seeing a lot of errors, a lot of mistakes. When we got that Amendment Paper 238, it was almost like a new bill. My question to the Minister is whether he would consider changing the title of this bill to \u201CFast-track (Cannot Draft a Bill Properly the First Time) Approvals Bill\u201D, because frankly that is what we are seeing here. We are lawmakers, we are the legislature in this House, and there are certain expectations when we are looking at the drafting of a particular bill. Frankly, this bill does not stack up. It does not go up to the standard that people of Aotearoa expect from us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThat is one of my amendments, but I want to just mention another particular point here. It is the fact that, as we are going through this bill, as we are debating various parts of Schedule 2, which, again, was something that was only dropped on our laps and only debatable by this committee yesterday or today. As we\u2019re going through this\u2014and I\u2019m hearing from my colleagues when they are discussing the kinds of projects that are in there, the kinds that are against certain standards and the kinds that have been denied previously\u2014I also want to check with the Minister if he has considered that maybe a better title for this is something along the lines of \u201CFast-track (Resurrect Zombie Projects) Approvals Bill\u201D. Again, this is what we are hearing throughout this entire debate today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EIn all seriousness, there are also other amendments on the title that I\u2019ve put on the Table here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e075ac68d794f47957a7212e7feb66e\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m being serious too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022529756de04b44c9cbf0723329a962441\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: You know what? Actually, I take that back. That is correct\u2014that is correct, the Hon Rachel Brooking. All of those things that we are saying are true. All of those things that we are saying are what has been brought to us. What people from those communities and what those people that are supposed to give approval or, as part of that proposed new section 14AAA, who are supposed to be consulted by these projects are telling us\u2014that these are, in fact, zombie projects that are being resurrected, which is why I\u2019m proposing that particular title.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EIf we\u2019re looking at something like this, to be fair, we have come to know this as the fast-track amendment bill. Actually, I was taken aback when I was looking at it. It says Fast-track Approvals Bill. But, regardless, there are also other ways to potentially look at. I also have an amendment on the Table as well, if the Minister wouldn\u2019t mind considering, something along the line of \u201CFast-track Decisions Bill\u201D as well. I also know that there are other people who have been heard and who have been part of this debate this entire day and will have other things to contribute in terms of clause 1 and 2. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u00221dd293a6121240ffab7cd00dff080ab0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221dd293a6121240ffab7cd00dff080ab0\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed23fa2e9a644886a183faea20b1fd5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed23fa2e9a644886a183faea20b1fd5b\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, for allowing me to take my first call on this legislation, acknowledging the hard work of my colleagues on this side of the Chamber to hold the Government to account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI would like to propose a title to the Minister responsible for RMA Reform, and it\u2019s the \u201CFast-track Approvals (Green-wash and Woke-wash) Bill\u201D, because we\u2019ve heard a lot of green-washing and woke-washing from the Ministers who\u2019ve sat on that chair. We\u2019ve heard from them and we\u2019ve heard this frequent rhetoric every question time from the Prime Minister when we question him on the fast-track bill. They always go, \u201COh, why don\u2019t the Greens join us in passing this bill? It\u2019s actually about passing renewable energy.\u201D Well, there are some renewable energy projects here, sure; but, if you actually look at the reality, there\u2019s already enough power that\u2019s been consented. This bill is completely unnecessary and completely promotes private benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EFurther, if you look at what it\u2019s actually doing, if you look at the list of projects, only a small fraction of the projects are actually renewable energy. If you\u2019re calling this a renewable energy project, when, in fact, only a small fraction of the things are actually to do with renewable energy, and a lot of the projects are to do with mining and mining infrastructure and road infrastructure that will actually increase climate emissions, then that is the opposite of the Green vision. That is just mere green-washing and mere woke-washing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221433182d52594513adf156319f4dd7f7\u0022\u003ECameron Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: Give us a definition of woke-washing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224faba11d536d4e36bbb16d6e808f5af7\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ\u003C/span\u003E: Well, woke-washing is when you pretend that things are actually going to be better than they are. That\u2019s the definition of \u201Cwoke-washing\u201D. I\u2019ve heard this rhetoric deployed from this side of the House as well when they referred to, I think, fossil gas as indigenous gas. We\u2019re supposed to believe that this Government, which has launched an unprecedented assault on race relations in New Zealand, all of a sudden cares about indigenous rights when it comes to mining fossil gas and fossil coal. What a joke\u2014what a joke!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EAnother aspect of this legislation is the sort of environmental processes that it does. I want to propose another potential title for this Fast-track Approvals Bill: the \u201CClimate Doom Approvals Bill\u201D because of all the negative environmental stuff that it\u2019s promoting. We\u2019ve talked about how little investment, how few projects, are actually to do with active transport or public transport. I think there was only a handful of projects that would actually invest in these. There was the busway project, some active transport projects, but the bulk of this is actually roads, holiday roads for people who go on holidays, not actually investing in the real roads that people need, you know? I went to Northland recently and they\u2019re still repairing the roads that were damaged by Cyclone Gabrielle. None of that\u2019s here\u2014none of that\u2019s here. It\u2019s all holiday roads. It\u2019s all woke-washed nonsense. This bill is all woke-washed nonsense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EAnother proposal that I\u2019m proposing is the \u201CFast-track (Burning Rubbish like it\u2019s the 1800s) Approvals Bill.\u201D Look, with the incinerator project, they\u2019re trying to resurrect ancient technology that we used to do in the 1800s. I grew up in a village in the Philippines and we didn\u2019t have modern waste systems, so we had to go and burn our rubbish. We just didn\u2019t even have pits; we just burnt it. That\u2019s exactly what they\u2019re proposing. The incinerator they\u2019re proposing doesn\u2019t have any kind of capture technology. I think that\u2019s what my colleague David Parker rightfully pointed out. It\u2019s just burning rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EEven worse is that this Government, which will barely meet its climate targets because\u2014well, surprise, surprise\u2014in the draft emissions reduction plan, they actually didn\u2019t meet the target to 2050. But, in the revised second emissions reduction plan, they\u2019ve done what they\u2019re good at doing. They\u2019ve done what this Government is good at doing, and that\u2019s cooking the books. They\u2019ve cooked the books on the climate targets by relying on 100\u00A0percent capture for technology that\u2019s been deployed overseas that doesn\u2019t reach the 100\u00A0percent rate. Amazing! I mean, I believe in Kiwi innovation, I believe in Kiwi science, and I believe that we\u2019re a smart people, but if we\u2019re getting rights that no one else is getting, I suspect something is afoul here. In conclusion, Mr Chair, this is woke-washing and green-washing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002206f058e75f3e48749da122cb54b57cd3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206f058e75f3e48749da122cb54b57cd3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I appreciate the energy and enthusiasm of members right across the Chamber at 25 minutes to midnight tonight, but if I could ask members to keep it tight towards the title and commencement clauses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002201a6a42b14ef4237bc0be4d1f05bfdc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201a6a42b14ef4237bc0be4d1f05bfdc0\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. As we are debating the title of this bill, the simple question that we have to consider is: is it an appropriate reflection of the contents of the bill? I would argue that it is not, because if you were to look at the title as it currently presents, one might think that the way in which this Government has presented this bill right from the get-go\u2014that this is nothing new, that this has been done before, this is just business as usual\u2014might be accurate. But we know that this is anything but business as usual, and so I propose that this should be one of two alternatives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIt should be called in the first instance the \u201CNew Fast-track Approvals Bill\u201D because it is nothing like any other fast-track regime that this Parliament has passed. We mustn\u2019t forget that at the start of this debate\u2014not just in the committee stage but right when the bill was first introduced\u2014there was a proposal that Ministers would have unprecedented powers in order to approve applications for projects. This is where the questions about cronyism were raised, along with the concerns around what this would do to New Zealand\u2019s reputation in terms of being corruption free. Now, they are legitimate questions. They were then and they are now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIt is not to say that individual Ministers are corrupt. It is certainly not to say that the Ministers that were originally proposed to have special approval powers in this bill were corrupt, but it opened up the opportunity for that to happen in the future, and that was a concern. Yes, that was addressed, but has that brought this fast-track approvals process back to what this Parliament has previously passed? No. This is nothing like what we\u2019ve seen in the past, and we can see that in the way in which this committee of the whole House stage has gone about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EAn Amendment Paper hundreds of pages long has been brought to the committee for consideration after the select committee process, an Amendment Paper which, it was advised, had provisions that would allow for private benefit allowed to be debated\u2014that\u2019s never happened before, ever. For the Clerk\u2019s advice and the presiding officer to be overruled by the Speaker has never happened in this Parliament before. To suggest in the title that this bill is the same as what we\u2019ve had before is false.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, I know that there are restrictions on what proposals for an alternative bill title are, and they should be serious in nature and they should not be a criticism of the content of the bill. Well, this isn\u2019t. This is a reflection of the bill and what it proposes: a brand new process that has never been seen before, that has come about in a way that we\u2019ve never seen before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe other alternative is that we simply say what this is: the \u201CFast-track Approvals Amendment Bill\u201D. Now, members may say, \u201CWell it\u2019s not actually an amendment bill.\u201D, but I would argue it is because it\u2019s more amendment than it is bill when you have an Amendment Paper hundreds of pages long that hasn\u2019t been through the full process and that was deliberately kept from the public\u2014and that\u2019s fair to say. The Ministers, if they followed proper process, would have included that schedule at select committee for the public to be able to submit on. Actually, if they had done that, it\u2019s likely that the question that we saw in the debate around the Speaker overruling the Clerk\u2019s advice probably would not have arisen, because it would have gone through a proper process. It was actually the Government subverting the process, trying to sneak it through, trying to avoid public scrutiny, that led to that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe other example that would lend to this bill being called the \u201CFast-track Approvals Amendment Bill\u201D is the fact that today we\u2019ve had three amendments from the Minister in charge\u2014today, the day that they were hoping to pass this. Now, that suggests to me, as it would to anybody that\u2019s been observing this debate, that this has been a poor process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThere were serious questions raised by my colleagues Arena Williams, Glen Bennett, David Parker, and Rachel Brooking around these amendments, and they weren\u2019t addressed. They were dismissed. That is the arrogance that this Parliament has had to deal with through this committee of the whole House stage. There were three amendments, quite substantial ones, that touched on serious things like judicial review and the ability to appeal a decision. \u201COh, don\u2019t worry about it.\u201D, they said. We should worry about it because the Ministers didn\u2019t think about it, or did they? Is this another example of the Ministers trying to subvert public scrutiny or proper parliamentary process? Did they know about this all along? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, I think it\u2019s actually the Ministers\u2019 responsibility to address this. They have refused to do so. There\u2019s nothing stopping them from doing so now. The Minister has stood up and responded to suggestions; interestingly, did not respond to the questions posed by Arena Williams. I would wager the Minister will not respond to these questions. We\u2019ve already asked on a number of occasions why those amendments were brought to the committee for consideration today. Why not at the start of the committee of the whole House stage? Better still, why not through select committee? They didn\u2019t answer that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EChanging the name of the bill to the \u201CFast-track Approvals Amendment Bill\u201D actually is appropriate, because forevermore it will remind people of the shoddy, arrogant, and cynical process that this Government has gone about right from the start\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a785d85370d641c7875260e4a47245c2\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Back on track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df5bd53e9120494d9d0d9c7c1a52d4fb\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what they\u2019ve got: slogans\u2014empty slogans. It won\u2019t be back on the train tracks when it comes to the ferries, will it? They are talking nonsense. That\u2019s all they have. They will go out to their communities, and they\u2019ll say, \u201CWe passed this great bill; it\u2019s just the same as the last one.\u201D\u2014that\u2019s not true. They will say that we went through a rigorous process. That\u2019s not true. None of the claims stack up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EAt the very least, the bill should be reflected in the name, and the current name does not reflect the bill. It does not reflect the claims that the Government has made, and it certainly doesn\u2019t reflect the process. So they\u2019ve got two options: the \u201CNew Fast-track Approvals Bill\u201D or the \u201CFast-track Approvals Amendment Bill.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI think, though, if I had to choose, I would put forward as my main proposal the \u201CFast-track Approvals Amendment Bill\u201D because of the appalling way in which this Government has gone about it. Then perhaps when this legislation is referred to in future, be it in the courts or be it here in Parliament, every time they mention it, they\u2019ll be reminding Parliament of what not to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI hope this Parliament never sees what we\u2019ve witnessed in this committee stage; in fact, throughout the whole passage of this bill. Frankly, it has been appalling and it has been disgraceful, and the only things that they can say are slogans\u2014and that sums it up. They are trying desperately to hoodwink the country that this is something about development when there are serious questions hanging over this that the Ministers have refused to answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EMy last question won\u2019t be to the Ministers; it\u2019ll be to the New Zealand public: why? Why do you think the Government has gone about it this way? Why has the Government deliberately chosen not to put the substantive part of the bill in front of the public at select committee? Why is that? Why has the Government chosen to bring amendments of substance to this bill today? Why? If people take a step back and think about it and look at the progress of this bill and the way that it\u2019s played out, and the reaction to the Ministers on pertinent questions, particularly from Arena Williams, I think they\u2019ll come to a pretty clear conclusion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022 data-id=\u002220b9713b068d48a0966e6ebbe60ef44d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220b9713b068d48a0966e6ebbe60ef44d\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Chair. Thank you. I\u2019m wanting to address the name of the bill tonight because I think, fundamentally, we have to examine the health of the Crown-M\u0101ori relationship and how even the Prime Minister has acknowledged that it\u2019s probably gotten worse this term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EWe sat last night and heard the Minister in charge of the fast track say that it would be utter legal chaos if there was to be a Te Tiriti clause within this legislation. That is completely undermining the fundamental relationship of te iwi M\u0101ori and the K\u0101wanatanga. The fact that\u00A0they refuse to acknowledge Te Tiriti fundamentally in this legislation undermines the very fabric of Aotearoa New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EAs the descendants of the signatories of He Whakaputanga me te Tiriti o Waitangi, me m\u014Dhio mai koutou [you need to know] that this is a serious breach of Te Tiriti, as we see the Crown look to create a hierarchy of the haves and the have-nots within te iwi M\u0101ori\u2014the haves and the have-nots. In my name proposal, I am saying, hey, let\u2019s call this the \u201CFast-track (Settled M\u0101ori Only) Approvals Bill\u201D. We have heard time and time again from the Ministers in that chair that they favour settled entities above all other M\u0101ori\u2014above all other M\u0101ori\u2014because it\u2019s all about honouring a Treaty settlement and they are actually ignoring the fundamentals of Te Tiriti, because the Minister says, \u201CIt would be utter legal chaos.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EMeinga meinga, e t\u0101tou m\u0101, meinga meinga. N\u0101 wai i teka t\u0113nei mea te Tiriti o Waitangi he \u201Cutter legal chaos\u201D? M\u014D te whakah\u012Bh\u012B. Whakah\u012Bh\u012B ki t\u0113nei kawenata tapu o t\u0101tou. Whakah\u012Bh\u012B m\u0101rika. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E[Is that so, everyone, isn\u2019t it just. Whose falsehood was it that the Treaty of Waitangi is \u201Cutter legal chaos\u201D? So arrogant. Arrogance towards this sacred covenant of ours. So very arrogant.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EWe need to really sit on this and think, because the h\u012Bkoi didn\u2019t happen for no reason. When we ignore the fundamentals of the fabric of New Zealand society, which you, as the Government\u2014aroha mai\u2014might whakaeke on to Waitangi next year, these agreements, He Whakaputanga me te Tiriti, are fundamental as to how we are meant to move forward as a country, and yet we see the Crown say, \u201Csettled entities first\u201D. Then they say that it\u2019s those with Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Act rights also. Well, there\u2019s only a few that that got there, didn\u2019t they, because you\u2019re repealing the legislation and you\u2019re sending us back to the High Court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EThen you go Mana Whakahono \u0101-Rohe [Iwi Partnership Arrangements]. Not many, if any, have got those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EThen rohe moana. OK, a few of us have rohe moana\u2014gotcha. But, really, the way with which the iwi hauk\u0101inga are excluded\u2014because we\u2019ve been told tonight there is a refusal to go public in advertising these projects that are coming through. There is a refusal, to make sure that the iwi k\u0101inga, ng\u0101 mea whai p\u0101nga ki \u0113nei mahi [the home people, the ones who are affected by these actions], are excluded because there\u2019s a hierarchy that the Crown has created through having Crown mandates, rather than looking at the fundamentals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EThis bill is he mea wehewehe i a t\u0101tou [to divide us]. It\u2019s separating the M\u0101ori. It\u2019s saying to those who have charitable trusts, those who have an iwi mandate, or those who have a Crown mandate, \u201CYou get to come forward and you get to input. But you in the k\u0101inga, you who collect the pipis and keep the fires burning on the marae and keep those lights on\u2014you are excluded, as your marae committee, as the iwi k\u0101inga on the whenua.\u201D, because, actually, you may not even have whenua in your k\u0101inga. Your marae might be your only p\u0101nga to their area, and I need to emphasise that because landlessness is real\u2014landlessness is real\u2014for te iwi M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EDon\u2019t think, \u201COh, those with whenua M\u0101ori interests\u2014you get a say\u201D, because many of us don\u2019t have whenua M\u0101ori interests left to even be close to where the projects are coming. Me m\u014Dhio mai koutou [you need to know] that this is serious. This is a serious breach because te iwi M\u0101ori stood before us in the select committee\u2014ia r\u0101, ia r\u0101\u2014and they told us very clearly, \u201CDo not exclude us. Allow us into the process. Allow us to be engaged, and fuel us. Give us the ability to have some p\u016Btea in our pocket to be able to engage and contribute into the process.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EParticipation is essential to having a good democracy, but for te iwi M\u0101ori, t\u0113nei K\u0101wanatanga he K\u0101wanatanga e wehewehe ana i te iwi M\u0101ori. Me m\u014Dhio mai koutou, me t\u016Bpato t\u0101tou katoa ki \u0113nei mahi wehewehe a te K\u0101wanatanga [this Government is a Government that is dividing the M\u0101ori people. You need to know that we should all be careful of the divisive actions of the Government]. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022046fb68f236c47cd9c7d66c2a8667c02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022046fb68f236c47cd9c7d66c2a8667c02\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman. I want to explain why I am tired of the Government\u2019s masquerading, pretending that this legislation is in any way comparable to the earlier fast-track legislation and, on that basis, why I oppose the current name, which appropriates the name of \u201CFast-track Approvals Bill\u201D from the earlier versions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EFollowing the last election, one of the first acts of this Government was to repeal the fast-track legislation that we already had on the book, which was close to identical to the original form, which was the COVID-19 response fast-track legislation. Under that legislation, 95 percent of the projects were approved notwithstanding that it had an environmental test. It didn\u2019t override the existing environmental tests in either the Conservation Act, the Resource Management Act (RMA), the Wildlife Act, or other things. We had participation from voices that weren\u2019t all development voices. Development voices are appropriate in resource management decisions, but decisions in respect of the countervailing views that some people have as to the protection of the environment should also be heard. They were, but still 95 percent of the projects were approved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhat was approved? Well, lots of subdivisions, lots of renewable energy, wind farms, solar farms. You could do renewals of hydro under that; you couldn\u2019t do new hydro, because that ruins a river catchment for ever and there should be public participation before you approve that. That should never go through fast track. It can under this legislation. In addition, we had approvals of factories, of new townships, transmission lines\u2014just about everything that the other side say they want to have approved under this new legislation. Ninety-five percent of them were approved, and all of those that were approved were approved within a reasonable period of time, stripping out a lot of the excess cost that was in the system, which we had remedied. If it\u2019s not about renewable energy and it\u2019s not appropriate subdivisions and it\u2019s not about other appropriate developments that were all proceeding through the existing fast track, what is it about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWell, it\u2019s actually about different things\u2014the sorts of things that would not be able to be consented but for overriding the environmental tests that this legislation overrides. In the same week that we have the outgoing chair of the Climate Change Commission, one of New Zealand\u2019s experts on these matters, saying that digging up more fossil fuels is a crime against humanity\u2014and those are his words\u2014this bill is facilitating more of that. This bill is encouraging more coal mines. It\u2019s encouraging inappropriately sited subdivisions. It was hard to approve an inappropriately sited subdivision under the old fast track, because the RMA plans that were in the council plans still applied and there wasn\u2019t an override of the RMA. So this will increase climate change emissions from subdivisions, because they can now be located far away from public transport. In what other ways will it increase climate-changing emissions? There are large water storage projects that are only economic through an increased intensity of land use, which will result in higher climate-changing emissions from the agricultural sector than would otherwise be the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe are as a planet facing catastrophic climate change, and if countries like New Zealand do not do our bit it is almost a certainty. It is terribly sad, because my grandchildren are going to be facing a climate that is appalling. I\u2019ve just read the latest Tim Winton book, called Juice. He\u2019s not an environmental crusader. People will have read most of his books; they\u2019re about human subjects. He\u2019s chosen to write a book about the dystopia that is coming in Australia as a consequence of climate change. This bill is about a fast track to climate change. All of the other good things that the Government heralds coming from this bill could already be achieved under the existing legislation\u2014quickly, cost-effectively, 95\u00A0percent of them approved. This is not about the things that the Government claims it is, masquerading under the title of the former fast track, which was working well. This should be called the \u201CFast track to Climate Change Bill\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00220efeeb165deb426c8b1f827f4b2130e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220efeeb165deb426c8b1f827f4b2130e8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The committee is suspended and will resume at 9 a.m. tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210f06b751a0cbe49ec92ffc64d19304bf1001405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 11.57 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Thursday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a983d0dab6d44f35bbe7064c0d48560b\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 10 DECEMBER 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225635cc05dfbc43e9abecc914e422e752\u0022\u003E(continued on Thursday, 12 December 2024)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c45620532c234361ae3aea1c64121f60\u0022\u003EFast-track Approvals Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002283497ef43fca438182cdc2d3ea0901d9\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226fa4c8209cf24dca87d3f49b5c448772\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2  (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce2886a46138495ab9855b08deeab8ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce2886a46138495ab9855b08deeab8ee\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Good morning, members. The sitting is resumed. Members, the committee is currently considering the Fast-track Approvals Bill and the question we are now debating is on clauses 1 and 2, \u201CTitle\u201D and \u201CCommencement\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4732cb58cdb4d14a938c43c22874fd2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4732cb58cdb4d14a938c43c22874fd2\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Chair. This is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5fd288b59d94ebcad3feb0110bad7ce\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: Repetition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a60f0924660404f8ce809f925d9fb9f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s only just opened his mouth. We\u2019ll see if it\u2019s repetition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217087c58c1e24950b772b2d114165818\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: This is serious, this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a96b2e62d7d84ae690e7b54c96a779b2\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s glorious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1d7fc0e7e4b463f87ab879774b42e5b\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: This is not glorious whatsoever. This bill runs fast and loose. It runs fast and loose over our environment, over our climate, over our Te Tiriti obligations, and over our community engagement. This bill runs fast and loose over democracy, and I am concerned. We are in the committee stage of this, and my concern, as I\u2019ll mention around the title, is the fact that it was less than 24 hours, the same day that we went into committee, that this huge Amendment Paper was dropped for us to deal with. There were three more amendments that were dropped as well from the Government, which is outrageous and wrong. Democracy is at stake in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022260fa441095b4551a3eba6176f4aa6fb\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Title.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d9296a2bbc349a490c1af5a4db3260e\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what I just said. He just mentioned the title, and I mention I\u2019m about to speak about the title, so I will. The fact of this bill is that it is outrageous, it is wrong, and we need to name it for what it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI want to support my colleague Arena Williams in terms of her amendment to change the title of this bill. I agree with her. I think that \u201CFast-track Public and Private Benefits Bill 2024\u201D is a better name for this bill. This bill runs roughshod over democracy and our responsibility in this House to the public good. This bill is about private benefit and we should name it for that, and therefore I support her amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to speak shortly about my amendment, which is on the commencement, but I just want to reflect because as we consider what the title should be, I really want to bring in the voice of submitters from the select committee. The reason I want to do that is because when I say that democracy is at risk here, there have been so many spaces where this has been truncated and challenged, and the public have not been able to engage as they should\u2014as a good democracy should. This bill is running fast and loose and it is wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EWe had 27,000 submitters on this bill, and only a fraction of those were able to submit on this bill, and the majority of submitters were against this piece of legislation. I thought, if we\u2019re talking about the title, why don\u2019t we use some of the words from the public of New Zealand who actually spoke out against this legislation. There\u2019s one I kind of like\u2014it\u2019s a bit outrageous\u2014and it\u2019s the \u201CCloak, Choke, and Destroy Bill\u201D. I thought that was quite good, and quite thoughtful of that submitter, who is concerned about coalmines, is concerned about quarries, and is concerned about the challenge to our environment and our climate. The \u201CCloak, Choke, and Destroy Bill\u201D\u2014it could be that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EAnother submitter spoke about the \u201CShortcut Bill\u201D, because this is a shortcut for private entities to get things done as quickly as they can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222534d585f7f04396a74cba66be3f6770\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. The opportunity to debate the title clause is very much constrained to that title and potentially new amendments, and Speaker\u2019s ruling\u00A0130/2 makes it clear that they must be serious or objective amendments, and the comments we\u2019ve just heard from the member are far from that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214440dceeb924eb39fedd6f27a1dab59\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for the point of order, but debate on the title and commencement often does come up with some interesting names and I\u2019ve heard it a lot in this House over my time. I\u2019ll ask Glen Bennett to continue this call, but I will remind people\u2014and this member has touched on the title, albeit that people don\u2019t like the titles he\u2019s suggesting\u2014that we will keep it very focused on the title and commencement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022029c32aa2c284fb0a444844e815680f7\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora, Madam Chair. The reason I am using these titles is because they are from members of the public who are speaking out and wanting to say, \u201CHow do we get democracy right?\u201D In the select committee process, a lot of them spoke and felt like their voices were choked and they weren\u2019t able to actually speak out about this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThe other title I want to mention, before I come to the commencement, is the \u201CBackwards Off-track Bill\u201D. Again, this was from another submitter who came to us and said, \u201CLet\u2019s look at this quite seriously.\u201D People spoke during the select committee stage and said that this bill takes us backwards. Someone said this bill takes us back to the 19th century and that this is legislation that has never been seen before in this Parliament. We don\u2019t want a repeat of the 19th century because of the outrageousness of what went on and the destruction to our environment, to democracy, and to land, quite frankly. I want to commend my colleague Arena Williams in terms of her amendment on the Table and would like us to consider calling this bill the \u201CFast-track Public and Private Benefits Bill 2024.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI want to come to the commencement date because I have an amendment on the Table that I want to talk about. Currently, it says, \u201CThis Act comes into force on the day after Royal assent.\u201D My amendment is on the Table here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u002260329aba24c54774842197ba49a9932d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260329aba24c54774842197ba49a9932d\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223e3bbc0f578f47e19c6879ca4db76bb8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002269c36cdda2f14b9b9b3416d46616dadc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269c36cdda2f14b9b9b3416d46616dadc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Lan Pham\u2019s amendment to clause 1 set out on Amendment Paper 144 is out of order as not being an objective description of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 is out of order as not being an objective description of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 1 to replace \u201CApprovals\u201D with \u201CPublic and Private Benefits\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cee863f9f72c438d90b6f07b523d67a7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3fd2f7744614da0820545f6284b1e29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3fd2f7744614da0820545f6284b1e29\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 to replace \u201CFast-track Approvals Act\u201D with \u201CFast-track Decisions Act\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223f6da30da49e4d1c959e95ec8998f92a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00229f56ef470c4c429bae1b6244267829ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f56ef470c4c429bae1b6244267829ef\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Francisco Hernandez\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 to replace \u201CFast-track Approvals Act\u201D with \u201CFast-track Approvals Process Act\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224e4a5efd16db4de6a0364ca0e3e8fe24\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa2bf08f02c444d3b5b2f5ce403b367e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa2bf08f02c444d3b5b2f5ce403b367e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Lan Pham\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 is out of order as not being an objective description of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe Hon Julie Anne Genter\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 is out of order as not being an objective description of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 is out of order as not being an objective description of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 is out of order as not being an objective description of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EFrancisco Hernandez\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 is out of order as not being an objective description of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003ECelia Wade-Brown\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 is out of order as not being an objective description of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EH\u016Bhana Lyndon\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 is out of order as not being an objective description of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220f2b37e65e894b9899df646c01c19fc7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022def55ccf711e4cfa81ba92aeac700a79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022def55ccf711e4cfa81ba92aeac700a79\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226b741b144f32428ab4410de0b8a75fd0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002202267b8d56cd46f0bc9add95540f1411\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202267b8d56cd46f0bc9add95540f1411\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Lan Pham\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224f55752006084a5c9e3c2f687e9a4658\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022eb5086e9184944b9a585c37fae0ac38a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00220f8812250499455cba3a89bf3c4e95ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f8812250499455cba3a89bf3c4e95ce\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Celia Wade-Brown\u2019s amendment to insert new clause 2A set out on Amendment Paper 145 be agreed to. All those in favour say Aye, to the contrary No. The Noes have it? The Noes have it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d73a5abed9ad4c019b0d73b732ba3921\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Party vote, please?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8da8e3dfdd14e21bc33e575457903f7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Too late. I\u2019ve declared. The question is that Glen Bennett\u2019s tabled amendment to insert new clause 2A be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224180ca859f9443569403416241eba2cf\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000043\u0022\u003EBill to be reported with amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022054120f26b424088a5e4b36f762b097c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022054120f26b424088a5e4b36f762b097c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Now, if you can just give us a moment to put some new paperwork on the desk, because, as you imagine, there\u2019s a lot of paperwork from that particular piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f70f911f5e6f4712a43cb367701c9846\u0022\u003EResidential Tenancies Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022de77749ea46940a28baf352c1ad6fe22\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002202dfde6cd49b4788bc9fb270031f76e0\u0022\u003EPart 1  Tenancy agreements, bonds, and related matters\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7a1fadcf3bd48b0a1e749df05cbb21c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7a1fadcf3bd48b0a1e749df05cbb21c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill. We start with Part 1. Part 1 is the debate on clauses 4 to 20, \u201CTenancy agreements, bonds, and related matters\u201D. The question is that Part 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022211e020d82f94ae88633b1ccab65a8f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022211e020d82f94ae88633b1ccab65a8f0\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and good to see the Minister of Housing, the Hon Chris Bishop, back on a different committee stage bill\u2014welcome back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EMy first question is on the definition in clause 4(1). Now, within this, I understand that there\u2019s been a new insertion of the definition of what \u201Ckeeps a pet\u201D means, and we can discuss that a little bit later. But my first question is: what is defined as \u201Cpet\u201D? What I\u2019m seeing here immediately is \u201Cpet does not include a disability [assistant] dog\u201D, which has given a specific definition within an Act, but it doesn\u2019t actually define pet more broadly. I do apologise; I haven\u2019t had the time to check the principal legislation to see if the Residential Tenancies Act 1986 already contains a definition of \u201Cpet\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI guess, with this, the bigger question is that people keep different forms of pets. Is there, I guess, a scope or some sort of boundary around what that could look like, whether anything can be considered a pet in this regard as long as the owner themselves declares that that is a pet? That would be my first question. I\u2019m sure other people will have many other questions on this particular section.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdbb6b4207684c2daa89a1473e6b08ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdbb6b4207684c2daa89a1473e6b08ae\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I thought I would start by touching on the broader themes around the pet bonds and then specific questions about an amendment that I have put in. I\u2019m keen to understand, from the Minister of Housing\u2019s perspective, what alternatives were explored here. By way of reassurance, I\u2019ll get out from the get-go that we support this part at least. In general, we don\u2019t support the bill as it currently stands, but there are some things in this bill that we are supportive of, and we\u2019ll make that clear throughout.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EPet bonds are one of those. We take the view that we support measures that will look to make it easier for tenants to have pets. That makes sense for us. We know that it\u2019s an issue and that it has been a longstanding one. The question is: are pet bonds the best way to go about it? We don\u2019t know the answer to that, and I don\u2019t think that the Government does, because it hasn\u2019t been tried before, but in general we support it because it\u2019s worth a go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI am keen to understand what other mechanisms were considered, and what advice or examples overseas did the Minister look at to get a gauge as to how effective a pet bond might be in allowing tenants to have pets? I get the rationale that in having a bond, landlords may be more willing to allow tenants to have pets, because if there are any issues that arise from that, they have a bond there that they can extract from to cover damage, etc., but I think it\u2019s important that we understand the broader work that was done to land on pet bonds and the alternatives that were considered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ESpeaking on that, I want to speak to an amendment that I have tabled to insert a new subsection\u2014this is to clause 8\u2014and it, essentially, proposes an exemption for greyhounds. We\u2019re in a situation where, this week, the House has unanimously supported a bill through the House that would look to protect greyhounds as the first step towards banning greyhound racing. What we do know from that is that there are roughly 2,900 greyhounds that will need to be rehomed. On the whole, there has been a broad level of support for this, but then that support inevitably leads to how we\u2019re going to find a home for these dogs. It\u2019s a question that the Government is going to have to grapple with, and it\u2019s one that the Labour Party are more than willing to work with them on to try and find a solution to that. It\u2019s in that vein that I ask the Minister to consider this amendment, because it is made in good faith and it is a genuine attempt to try and address that issue. It seems to me that this is an appropriate way in which to look to solve that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EAt the moment, we have a situation where the bill proposes that, outside of assistance dogs, a bond can be placed by a landlord for any tenant that wants to have a pet, but when we\u2019ve got a large number of greyhounds about to be seeking a home, we need to also look at ways in which to assist that. What this amendment proposes is inserting a new subsection that a landlord may not require payment of a pet bond for a maximum of one greyhound which was previously engaged in greyhound racing or bred for greyhound racing for a period of four calendar years following the assent of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll just walk through the rationale here and the thinking. We don\u2019t want it to be all greyhounds, because we wanted to be reasonable and try and find a pragmatic way forward. We were concerned that if we just said greyhounds, that would include whippets and Italian greyhounds as well. Now, they are quite\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fbec3192c4142c5912bda140e15e9f0\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the difference?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fc6f69cffba4b30981a3684c6fdedf2\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CWhat\u2019s the difference?\u201D is a very good question. Look, I\u2019m no expert, but they\u2019re not greyhounds. They are kind of like exclusive breeds\u2014you know, they\u2019re fashionable dogs. Italian greyhounds are very, very small. Whippets are in between an Italian greyhound and a greyhound. The point is they\u2019re not used for racing and there\u2019s no surplus. They are bred commercially and people have them, and that\u2019s all good. The point here is to try and limit the scope of this to greyhounds that had been engaged in racing or bred for racing. Any greyhound that was purchased through a commercial breeder wouldn\u2019t count.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe reason we\u2019ve suggested a period of four calendar years is because, once the legislation passes, it looks like greyhound racing will wind down by 2026. Now, I know, with conversations with the likes of the SPCA and Save Animals from Exploitation and other stakeholders that have been engaged in the debate about this issue, they\u2019ve indicated that it could take up to 18 months, two years to make sure that every greyhound gets a home. I thought it would be pragmatic to have a window of four years to account for the period from now leading up to when the ban on greyhound racing comes in, and then an up-to-two-year period after that to help find a home for greyhounds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022921e08bb2dff4b85bed716bf6b811daf\u0022\u003EHon Penny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Have you mixed up your speech notes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b29333caa6014caf8a43bcbd95265404\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: No. I mean, this is typical of this Government, isn\u2019t it? We come with a genuine proposal to try and help the Government find a solution to an issue, and Penny Simmonds has a go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe thing is, after those four years, pet bonds can come in. We\u2019re not saying it\u2019s a ban for the rest of time, and we\u2019re not suggesting that a landlord that allows a greyhound in can\u2019t then bring in or request a pet bond after that period. It\u2019s just a pragmatic way to try and help home greyhounds. It is proposed in good will. We are happy and flexible to work with the Minister. I\u2019m quite happy to have a back and forth throughout this to try and get the details right. We might want to work on the definition; we might want to work on the window, how long that is\u2014whatever they\u2019re comfortable with\u2014but the guts of this is that we have an opportunity through this bill and through this clause to assist the Government in finding homes for those greyhounds that will no longer be in the racing industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022d77a1a8ef577495083cc82ef7db13336\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d77a1a8ef577495083cc82ef7db13336\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. While I am also waiting for the Minister to respond to my earlier question on the definition of a pet\u2014and I want to speak more in depth to that question\u2014I think, first of all, we also would like to support the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s proposal around rehoming of greyhounds in light of the bill that went through Parliament this week with unanimous support. We too have an amendment of our own on this matter, Amendment Paper 218, which is an amendment by Steve Abel which also says the same thing. We genuinely would like to ask the Minister to consider either or both of these two amendments seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EIn terms of the pet part, the reason I asked for the definition is that when we are looking at clause 16\u2014when it goes to \u201CWhen tenant may keep [a] pet\u201D, more specifically\u2014there is nothing in there on not allowing landlords to prohibit a pet as not being suitable for the\u00A0property without first providing relevant evidence that a pet would not be suitable for\u00A0such\u00A0a property because of its size or type or premise or other form of prejudice. We have an Amendment Paper on this\u2014Amendment Paper 220\u2014that would prevent arbitrary discrimination based on stereotypes of the type of animal and prevent landlords from using these grounds baselessly. This is a part of a new section 42F that we are proposing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EAlong the same lines of that, another Amendment Paper\u2014No. 224\u2014is also on clause 16. This ties back to clause 4, when I\u2019m referring to the definition of a pet. It also clarifies that a pet being not suitable for the property due to a propensity for causing damage does not include reasonable wear and tear. Again, I think for many of us who do have pets, it\u2019s a general fact that sometimes your pet\u2014your cat, your dog, whatever\u2014doesn\u2019t quite do what you tell it to do and may act up. However, that shouldn\u2019t be a reason, if it\u2019s a genuine wear and tear of the property. Amendment Paper 224, on clause 16, which is also part of introducing a new section\u00A042F, would also prevent propensity for causing damage to be misused for minor and reasonable wear and tear of a property. I would like the Minister to provide some clarification or at least some certainty\u2014if the Minister isn\u2019t going to consider the amendment\u2014to give reassurances that tenants are not going to be arbitrarily ruled out because the landlord thinks the pet is unsuitable, and that the tenant isn\u2019t going to be unduly punished for reasonable wear and tear just by having a pet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe next point I want to address is around the other lack of clarity in terms of the definition, and again, this comes from the definition of a pet under clause 4. Now, in clause 4 the definition of a pet is very specific in terms of what he has ruled out, particularly with regards to \u201Cdoes not include a disability assist dog\u201D. However, there is nowhere in clause 8 or clause 16 that talks to whether a disabled person would be ruled out for having a disability assistant dog. My colleague Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March has Amendment Paper 219, which includes a clause to emphasise, for the avoidance of doubt, that the landlord may not prohibit a tenant from keeping a disability assistant dog which is not a pet. I would like to hear the Minister\u2019s thoughts on those three amendments, as well as my question earlier on the definition of pet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022927fa8ea885f48d7b87087f408663bdf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022927fa8ea885f48d7b87087f408663bdf\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair\u2014some good questions raised by members so far. Let me deal with them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn terms of the first contribution from Lawrence Xu-Nan, in terms of the definition of \u201Cpet\u201D, I\u2019m advised that no country, when it comes to tenancy law, defines \u201Cpet\u201D, basically. It\u2019s deliberately left as open as possible because people with a definition of pets\u2014I mean, members can think through the logistical challenges with that. However, the bill makes it clear that disability support dogs are exempt from the pet bond. To, I think, address his concerns: if you are disabled and have a support dog, the landlord cannot charge a bond for that. The bill makes that clear. I think most people would agree that is the right thing to do, and so the definition of \u201Cpet\u201D explicitly excludes a support dog. The whole point of that is to make sure that a bond can\u2019t be charged for it. In terms of the definition of \u201Cpet\u201D, we deliberately left that open.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn terms of his other point around possible discrimination against people on the grounds of what particular pet they have or suitability, I think the key point here for him and everyone to bear in mind is quite a significant change to the law, which is at new section 42E, particularly subsection (4). What we\u2019re doing is reversing what we have at the moment. If the bill passes, the landlord will not be able to refuse consent to have a pet without reasonable grounds or attach an unreasonable condition to the consent. That is sort of buried in the scheme of the legislation, but that is the kind of core operative thing: landlords can\u2019t now refuse consent without reasonable grounds for tenants who wish to have pets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s, essentially, a reversion of the status quo, and so it reverses the presumption. You\u2019re allowed a pet and you can have a pet as a tenant. Thousands and thousands of New Zealanders are tenants, and thousands of them either have pets or want to have pets. I think members broadly agree with the proposition that we want to make it easier for tenants to have pets, and so we are taking quite a significant step in saying that\u2019s fine. Landlords can only refuse consent with reasonable grounds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn terms of what that means, there will be guidance published by the bureaucracy\u2014officialdom\u2014about some suggested definitions about what \u201Creasonable\u201D means, but ultimately this will be worked through the tribunal, and there will be cases in which landlords refuse consent and tenants challenge that through the tribunal. That\u2019s appropriate because, ultimately, they are the arbiter of tenancy law; that\u2019s the appropriate appeal authority, so to speak, when it comes to tenancy law and that\u2019s completely right and proper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn fact, the bill, in other parts, makes some changes to the operation of the tribunal, which is a good thing. We\u2019re comfortable with how it\u2019s drafted at the moment. I think we\u2019ve got the balance right, and I think it will provide a lot of benefits for tenants who want to rent but also want to have a pet. We know that hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders have pets, and they\u2019re a very important part of stability and social life for many people\u2014friendship, fellowship, mental health; very, very important. That\u2019s why we\u2019re doing this. To recognise that pets can cause damage and to try and incentivise landlords to be encouraging of pets, encouraging of tenants to have pets, we have put in place that pet bond provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ENow, the Hon Kieran McAnulty asks about what other countries do. The truth is there\u2019s a variety of different approaches, broadly in line with what the Government\u2019s proposing around not unreasonable withholding of consent. Some countries give nearly an absolute right to have a pet; other countries have a slightly softer approach. It varies depending on the law and the jurisdiction. Western Australia, I\u2019m advised, has pet bonds, and so we think this is a good step forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn terms of the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s amendment around greyhounds, we had a good look at it and I\u2019ve had a conversation with Mr Abel, who has a similar proposal as well. We\u2019ve had a good look at it. I can advise the Government will not be supporting it, and I do want to explain why. It goes back to the point I made before around the incentive to take a tenant who wants to have a pet, that the quid pro quo of allowing pets or making it easier to have pets is the bond for the potential damage, the extra two-week bond that can be charged\u2014Madam Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aac47dc4928a4a4ea785c9b975e7fe00\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Chris Bishop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0fcdfd067ab460eba70bc507b13c571\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just finish this point briefly. The quid pro quo is the extra two weeks that can be charged. If you exempt the ability to charge the bond, it may actually be counterproductive and have the sort of perverse effect of incentivising landlords to encourage tenants to have pets that are not greyhounds. If you exempt greyhounds out of the pet bond provision and say you can\u2019t charge a bond for a greyhound\u2014and look, I love greyhounds as much as the member who suggested the amendment does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3de45c90d004e2da13fbd5a3d523427\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t know about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270006ef2557a400783964120f99c6019\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s possibly true. I don\u2019t have one, so that\u2019s a good point. But we thought about it. I love greyhounds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022192b5336055d46e89a3165c738a3581d\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: You can get one now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022275a0389d17c4cb98d71826d36f8d739\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, indeed, and there\u2019s quite a few to get. There\u2019s a bit going on in our house at the moment, so we might just wait. I\u2019m not sure my family would be too keen on me committing to that on the floor of Parliament. We\u2019ll see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThat may actually be\u2014perhaps could have\u2014a perverse outcome. We think the better approach is to allow landlords to charge pet bonds. I\u2019m fully on board with his desire and drive to make sure that we rehome those roughly 3,000 greyhounds that will need a home in the next 20 months or so as the industry closes down. I appreciate the drive. We had a good look at it, because we kicked it around a bit, but we won\u2019t be supporting his amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00222b68939dbf594b288ea1d7b9e42d73bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b68939dbf594b288ea1d7b9e42d73bf\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I thank the Minister for the response to that. I understand where he\u2019s coming from, but I would still like to use this opportunity to try and work through a few things and see if we can find a way through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIt seems to me that the Government\u2019s position is that what we\u2019re proposing will work as a disincentive to landlords. What we\u2019re trying to do is incentivise people to take on a greyhound, and make it easier and more practical. If the Government is concerned around the position that landlords may take, would he be open to any provision that, if there were to be damage caused under this scenario we\u2019re talking about, where the tenant has been exempt from having to pay a pet bond, there is also another provision available to the landlord to be able to claim more if there\u2019s damage within that four-year period? They won\u2019t be disadvantaged, because they will have the protection and the provision to be able to go beyond the cap of damages. The tenant won\u2019t be disadvantaged, because they won\u2019t need to front up with the bond, but it still preserves the landlord\u2019s ability to seek damages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EHopefully, that would then address the concerns the Government\u2019s outlined\u2014the perverse outcome that he\u2019s described\u2014because, ultimately, the landlord would still have that provision available to them if there\u2019s damage, but it means that the tenants won\u2019t have to front up with two weeks\u2019 rent from the get-go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, I have a few questions around the level of the pet bond and talking about what\u2019s in the regulatory impact statement. I\u2019ll come to those later. I will just refer to the fact that it does indicate that, for lower-income people, this could be a barrier even if the landlord was willing to take on pets. If the Government was willing to at least explore extra provisions available to landlords solely in this specific instance, we might be able to achieve what we\u2019re trying to, making it easier for people to take on a greyhound but addressing the concerns that the landlords have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022acd5bc46f6a447fa95a51b83415fd239\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acd5bc46f6a447fa95a51b83415fd239\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m going to continue on this and just say that, having been on the select committee, there was a lot of support for the pet bond provision. However, there were some concerns raised and I think now is the time to flesh them out a little bit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI am interested in what the Minister was saying about not being able to define a pet and interested to hear that overseas jurisdictions do not either. I\u2019m wondering whether tenants will have the opportunity to challenge the landlord charging a bond if the pet is deemed to be such that really damage would not or could not or is unlikely to be caused. I\u2019m thinking about things like a caged bird, perhaps, that is maybe not even kept in the house. I\u2019m wondering whether a tenant would be able to challenge the idea that they would be charged for having a pet or made to pay the bond if, really, when things are weighed up, the pet is not really deemed to be one that is a risk or will cause any damage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe other question comes a little bit off the back of something that Kieran McAnulty was saying, and that is around those families that financially struggle. I wanted to check with the Minister whether or not the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s (MSD) housing products\u2014particularly access to support for bonds\u2014is going to be extended to the pet bond as well, and whether that will come into effect at the same time that this bill comes into effect. Many of those wh\u0101nau that Kieran McAnulty referred to earlier struggled to pay the bond in general but, like many wh\u0101nau, do enjoy the company and what is part of their family is actually a pet. I\u2019m wondering whether MSD has included that in their housing products support, and I believe it is a recoverable product anyway. It\u2019s something that they have to pay back, but I\u2019m wanting to know whether or not access to bonds through MSD will be extended to pets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI also wanted to touch on the issue raised around assistance dogs and support Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s amendment on this. One thing that was really clear when we were going through the select committee submissions was that there was real concern that there would not be a differentiation and that landlords would not know the difference between an assistance dog versus a pet, and that disabled people or those that have assistance dogs would get caught up in this. Now, I do recognise that Part 1 does say \u201Cnot include a disability assist dog\u201D within this; however I think it needs to be re-stipulated, and Ricardo\u2019s Amendment Paper 219 goes quite some way to doing that. I think it would provide assurance to the disability community that they\u2019re not going to be discriminated against with their assistance dogs and go through the rigmarole of having to negotiate and argue with a potential landlord about their situation and their assistance dog and why it is not to come under the pet bond provision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThose are just a few points that I wanted to make for now. If the Minister could respond to those, that would be greatly appreciated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0365dd40a4447bfb599752899c91998\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0365dd40a4447bfb599752899c91998\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Just on the last point, in terms of disability, I\u2019ll also acknowledge the concern that the member raises around what was heard at select committee. I think it\u2019s pretty clear in the bill, which will become the Act, assuming it passes, and there\u2019ll be clear guidance issued from the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment and Tenancy Services around that, so we\u2019re comfortable with where we\u2019ve landed there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn terms of the Ministry of Social Development (MSD)\u2014good question\u2014I am advised that tenants may be able to apply to MSD for bond grants to cover a pet bond or part of a pet bond in an application for recoverable assistance under the housing support products, but bond grants will only be allowed up to a maximum of four weeks\u2019 rent per grant for both the general and the pet bond. MSD will cover up to four weeks of recoverable assistance in total.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s point, I mean, we can have a think about it. I think the key point is just really what I said before, which is we want to get the balance right between encouraging landlords to not look askance at greyhounds because they can\u2019t charge a bond. The simplest way of doing that is allow them to charge a bond. I appreciate his point that we\u2019ve got all these greyhounds to be rehomed, but I genuinely think the best way of doing that is this bill, plus a wider community effort, which is a subject of a bigger discussion around the shutting down of the greyhound industry and making sure we can rehome the dogs. There\u2019s a whole lot of other things that will need to be worked through, which I\u2019m not responsible for, although I\u2019m interested in it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa8c225a73e4493c94d6fcdb3b1f9f1e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa8c225a73e4493c94d6fcdb3b1f9f1e\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Just as a follow-up, it\u2019s quite disappointing that the Ministry of Social Development housing product for bonds has not been extended to cover a pet bond. My understanding is\u2014and the Minister can correct me if I\u2019m wrong\u2014that, generally, most people will expect to pay four weeks\u2019 bond. That\u2019s certainly what I\u2019ve seen. The Minister\u2019s stating that that can also be inclusive of the pet bond is a little bit disingenuous for those that are in the situation where they need to seek out housing products, because they would then be limited in terms of it actually being, potentially, the four weeks\u2019 bond for the house plus the two-week pet bond, but not actually any additional housing support or housing product support to cover this pet bond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EIt disadvantages them. Even those who are financially struggling enjoy the company, as I said, of a pet, and I don\u2019t think that they should be excluded from being able to do that. This is a recoverable assistance product, so it is something that those families would need to pay back. My expectation would have been not that it would just be included in the current housing product provision but that it would actually be extended to ensure that not only could they pay the general bond but also be able to pay the cover for a pet bond if they chose to take that up. I do want to put to the Minister that I am concerned that no consideration has gone to extending that housing product and ask the Minister whether or not this is something they could turn their minds to or perhaps something that we may need to look at making an amendment for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002230f7597fefaf45a8988af44870b5e85b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230f7597fefaf45a8988af44870b5e85b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Well, Ministers have turned their mind to it, and we\u2019ve decided not to. We\u2019ve thought about it, we\u2019ve looked at it, and we\u2019ve decided not to do that. To just repeat what I said before, which is that within the four weeks, the pet bond can be inclusive, and there\u2019s a variety of tenancy arrangements out there\u2014one-, two-, three-, four-week bond requirements; four is the max\u2014and there\u2019s a variety of different arrangements out there. The status quo for now, or the position as of now, is that the recoverable assistance under the Housing Support Programme can include a pet bond, but the max is four weeks for both.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022 data-id=\u002264a22158599e460298d2abbe35196c86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264a22158599e460298d2abbe35196c86\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Before I begin my contribution, I just want to thank the Minister of Housing for attending the event that I co-hosted with Paulo Garcia last Thursday evening, the parol celebration that we had with the Philippine Embassy and the Bulwagan Foundation\u2014and the colleagues across the House who also attended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e4dfed3365f49bf9aa74c97effc857f\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Magandang umaga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ae5d6eaa4bb4abe9ae51648e27db7f1\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ\u003C/span\u003E: Great. I have a couple of questions to do with clause 14A and clause 16.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EMy question around clause 16 revolves around new section 42E(1), which it inserts. My question around clause 14A\u2014which amends section 26, replacing \u201C6 months\u201D with \u201C1 year\u201D. I think it\u2019s a good change. My understanding is that section 26 gives effect to section 25, which, basically, enables the Tenancy Tribunal to give an order to force the landlord to charge market rent if someone\u2019s getting overcharged. It\u2019s been changed from six months to one year. I think that\u2019s a good change. I think it\u2019s a change that we do support, in the sense that it gives the people who\u2019ve been overcharged more security, but I just want to explore with the Minister why the change from six months to one year\u2014was a longer period considered?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI also want to ask about clause 16 and the new section 42E(1) that it creates. It says, \u201CIf the tenant makes a written request to the landlord for consent for the tenant to keep a pet on the premises, the landlord must respond in writing within 21 days of receiving the request.\u201D My first question is: is that standard days or working days? The other component of the question is: what other days were considered within that? Why was 21 days picked? Is there perhaps an option to reduce the amount of days? Twenty-one days seems like quite a long time to wait for an answer if you\u2019re wanting to keep a pet. Yeah.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI was just wanting to make a very short contribution to ask these questions of the Minister. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002293deaeaae41d4cb7b6ea4ab69dab6b26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293deaeaae41d4cb7b6ea4ab69dab6b26\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Just very, very quickly on the question of the six months to one year, the residential tenancy laws are amended quite frequently, and it\u2019s just an opportunity to improve the situation\u2014so, more fair, as the member, I think, acknowledges. Our view was that it was a better situation, so we\u2019ve taken the opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EMembers will see as you go through the bill that the main thing is the no-cause terminations and pet bonds, but there\u2019s a suite of other quite sensible system changes and pro-tenant moves, frankly, throughout the legislation. We just took the opportunity as part of the vehicle that is this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI\u2019m sorry, I was getting an answer on the first one, so I missed the second part of his question. Just very briefly, what was it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e76901383fed48858e0674140651097a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: If the member would like to re-ask. It was around working days\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b364eae9660e499f8bcbf2c806137571\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, the other one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224047d3030e694510a11c599a46139446\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, the other one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4d808b2559646db8187fe7351d7f685\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: What was the other one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022 data-id=\u002276d6a839ba9747c2bc9879e81afbfd72\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276d6a839ba9747c2bc9879e81afbfd72\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green):\u003C/span\u003E It was around the working days. Do you want me to re-ask that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edded7460ebd435fa948890393b23ced\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and the thing you got on to as well for the last point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262b50ef62e7946ab86900e3ec84eed20\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ\u003C/span\u003E: Great. So my question is around clause 16, which is inserting new section 42E, and is about the changes it makes for the written consent for tenants to keep a pet. It says, \u201CIf the tenant makes a written request to the landlord for consent for the tenant to keep a pet on the premises, the landlord must respond in writing within 21 days of receiving the request.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EMy first question was: is that working days or just calendar days? My second question is: what other dates were considered as part of that and was a shorter period considered, because 21 days seems like quite a long time to be waiting on a reply from a landlord? I think people who make decisions to get pets\u2014they\u2019re not taken lightly. I am a tenant, but if I was looking to get a pet, I would probably like an answer quicker than 21 days. I\u2019m keen for an answer on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca5c6101fd8c4f57905ad56e9687ec59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca5c6101fd8c4f57905ad56e9687ec59\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s 21 days, not working days\u2014to answer that. As to \u201CWhy 21?\u201D\u2014I mean, is there an argument for 28? Sure. Is there an argument for 14? Sure. You\u2019ve got to put a number at some point. There\u2019s no science to it, and it\u2019s not rational in that sense; it\u2019s just what we think is reasonable. This provision hasn\u2019t been used before. Let\u2019s get it into law, and if it\u2014I mean, seven days, I think, would be too low. You can make an argument for two. Equally, there would probably be landlords who would say that a month, which is basically 28 days, would be fine as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ELook, let\u2019s see how it goes\u2014I mean, this will probably be an iterative process. This is quite a change to New Zealand tenancy law around pets. There will be wrinkles we need to work through as part of that. The tribunal will play a part in that, but also Parliament may have to respond to tribunal rulings, as well. One of the things this bill does, for example, is in relation to smoking in properties, which deals with a somewhat unusual view from the Tenancy Tribunal a couple of years ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIt will be a bit of an iterative process; that\u2019s totally appropriate. You\u2019re not going to get everything right the first time, so if it looks like we need to go down to 14 days, we\u2019re happy to have a look at that. Equally, the feedback may be that it may need a bit more time. There\u2019s no science to it. Three weeks\u201421 days\u2014I reckon is pretty reasonable for a tenant to say, \u201CI want to have a pet.\u201D Landlords are busy people; equally, so are tenants. Let\u2019s just see how it goes. We\u2019re open to change if it doesn\u2019t work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022 data-id=\u00229df18aa95fdf4f969034500906f07dd8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229df18aa95fdf4f969034500906f07dd8\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, Minister, for your answers. It\u2019s great to be here. I\u2019m really keen to have a good, robust discussion with you about this bill. Because I missed the first part, I\u2019m going to start, but just cut me off if this has already been covered. Thankfully, there are lots of areas that we can go into. I want to ask a question about the evidential basis behind this bill, because, from following this bill through the select committee process, it became apparent to me that it seems like there was a decision that you arrived at, Minister, that you decided\u2014no-cause evictions coming back to New Zealand. As you do\u2014as you\u2019re the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b67b2cdccaa40d6becf8cef1ac6d433\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just point out this is Part 2\u2014if we can keep to Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e11388e193d42d581c9e51cb757cfc4\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I guess the evidence that I\u2019m talking about underpins every part of this bill, so that\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8c83e3f973a4a188d87aa9a38eb0930\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Well, it\u2019s fair to ask about evidence, but if you\u2019re referencing things, make sure you\u2019re in Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b427d4917ba4f6d83dceaaec6aa4b99\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL\u003C/span\u003E: Yep. I guess, focusing on the evidence behind this part in this bill, I want to understand how you arrived at this bill and what evidence underpins these particular parts that we are discussing currently. To me, it seems like you had an objective that you wanted to achieve, but then it seems that we\u2019ve worked backwards to find the evidence to create the basis for the bill. What I want to understand is: what is the evidence? In my view, the regulatory impact statement that underpins this bill and these parts was uncharacteristically not as detailed as other regulatory impact statements that there have been prepared by the officials. I felt the evidential case wasn\u2019t particularly strong, which is unlike that particular ministry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EI would love for you to stand up and tell us what the evidence is behind it, particularly given that there isn\u2019t a lot of support for this bill, with 97 percent of submissions being opposed, and then 53 percent of property managers and landlords being opposed to this bill as well. If there\u2019s not the support there\u2014not this kind of overwhelming call from landlords and property managers for this\u2014then why was this pursued as a political objective if that evidence is not there? I think you get what I\u2019m getting at, so I\u2019ll give you a chance to respond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf6f669119f7457eb3692ccfbca26ff9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf6f669119f7457eb3692ccfbca26ff9\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E The member\u2019s talking about stuff in Part 2. We\u2019re actually on Part 1, but I\u2019m happy to address the point if we want to do it as all parts as one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d4690c75e3145558eb3dbe04f86cdf2\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6c3f3c1e9984668b2209e3bccd94884\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: No? OK. Well, OK. We\u2019ll, I\u2019m going to be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222026b5cbed7f4c99a935ea4f681a882f\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s still relevant to Part 1, Chris.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220443dabb316f47d38896eed02064f0e5\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, not really, because you\u2019re basically talking about\u2014I mean, OK. The evidence for pet bonds, which is Part 1, is really clear. I think the member would probably agree with me that there are a lot of tenants who wish to have a pet who can\u2019t have a pet. I think most reasonable people realise that\u2019s been a bit of a gap in the law. The law\u2019s been unclear. Probably most people would agree it\u2019s been too hard to have a pet, so the evidence underlying it is that we want to make it easier, and I think most people broadly accept that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe member wasn\u2019t here, but we\u2019ve traversed the provisions around not being able to unreasonably withhold consent and the quid pro quo of that being the ability to charge up to two weeks for a pet bond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ed50146c98243808e456827ca405a5b\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Chair. Aren\u2019t you not supposed to mention when a member isn\u2019t in the House? Isn\u2019t that a thing, a convention?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246de33f713db4ad6bc8ab5eae54c4336\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Technically yes, but it\u2019s more for when it\u2019s a pointed comment. I\u2019ll take it on board. You are technically right, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022c525ac9d047d417ab679651e8826f903\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c525ac9d047d417ab679651e8826f903\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Minister, I\u2019ve amended my amendment to try and address your responses, and to be honest, this is exactly how a committee stage should work. It\u2019s really good to see that you are, as you said, at least willing to consider it. In responding to your concerns that the original proposal might have a perverse outcome, primarily focused on the disincentive that this may prove with landlords who would be less inclined to take on a pet if the bond wasn\u2019t there\u2014I get that; there\u2019s some logic there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019m proposing is to add wording to my amendment on clause 8, inserting a new section 18AA(1B), so that during this period\u2014the four-year proposal, after which, obviously, a pet bond can be issued\u2014\u201CTenant liability for pet damage caused by a greyhound as defined\u00A0above\u201D\u2014so, those that have participated in racing or have been bred for racing\u2014\u201Ccould be extended by up to two weeks\u2019 rent to account for the lack of a pet bond.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EFrom the landlord\u2019s perspective, if they allow a greyhound or a tenant with a greyhound, they actually\u2014if there\u2019s damage caused\u2014are able to claim more than they would otherwise, to account for the fact that there was no bond. In essence, if there\u2019s damage caused, the landlord has the ability to claim that, but the exemption of the pet bond allows more people to take on a greyhound without having to stump up with two weeks\u2019 rent. You incentivise people to take on a former racing greyhound, and you incentivise landlords to allow those people to take on a greyhound, knowing that if there is damage caused, they can claim up to what they would have been able to do if there was a pet bond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI\u2019m hoping that the Minister will see that this addresses his concerns. It\u2019s consistent with the intent of the pet bond. It will assist the Government in the challenge that it now has in terms of finding residences for former racing greyhounds. I hope it\u2019s seen as a bit of a win-win. Like I say, I\u2019m genuinely approaching this with goodwill, trying to be pragmatic, happy to work on specific detail. I\u2019m not going to die in a ditch on wording or whatever. I\u2019m just trying to find a way to make this work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7c8c073cfb94b85a7fa12ca95150f36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7c8c073cfb94b85a7fa12ca95150f36\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I haven\u2019t seen the revised amendment. I\u2019m happy to have a look at it and see it in its full context. I suppose my point would be that, if you exempt greyhounds from the pet bond rules and you\u2019re not allowed to charge an upfront bond\u2014so that tenants don\u2019t have to pay an upfront bond, so it\u2019s more likely that a landlord will take on a tenant with a greyhound or it\u2019s more likely that tenants will go and get greyhounds as they\u2019re more likely to be able to have a home with a pet in it\u2014but then you say at the back end of it that you can charge up to two weeks for damage, why not just have a two-week bond, because that two-week bond is meant to cover the damage? Maybe I\u2019ve misunderstood the member\u2019s point, but why don\u2019t you just charge a pet bond?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00223e387c346a194e5eb0ed037133d6c741\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e387c346a194e5eb0ed037133d6c741\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The reality is that there\u2019s going to be a hell of\u00A0a\u00A0lot of greyhounds that need a home. There\u2019s going to be people that want to take on a greyhound but can\u2019t front up with two weeks\u2019 rent to issue a bond immediately. I know that\u00A0for a fact because I\u2019ve had people contact me saying, \u201CThis is great. I want to take a greyhound, but my landlord won\u2019t let me\u201D. That\u2019s not uncommon, right? That\u2019s the whole point of a pet bond. If the rationale is true that if we allow landlords to issue a pet bond, then they will be more forthcoming to the idea of a pet, it actually doesn\u2019t address the instance that for some people they won\u2019t be able to front up with two weeks\u2019 rent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, I actually agree with your argument that, in general, if this was a proposal across the board, it\u2019s counterproductive and sort of misses the point\u2014I get it\u2014but this is specific for former racing greyhounds and greyhounds bred for racing. We know there are people that would take them but can\u2019t afford the bond. We know that there are landlords that will allow them if the tenant pays a bond. Exempting tenants from the bond if they adopt a former racing greyhound deals with that issue. Extending the potential liability if that greyhound causes damage addresses the potential barrier to a landlord taking it on without a pet bond. I think it\u2019s a pragmatic response to both realities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIf tenants wouldn\u2019t have an issue fronting up with a bond, I don\u2019t think there\u2019d be a need for this, but we know that there are people that will. It\u2019s in the regulatory impact statement. There\u2019ll be some people that simply cannot afford the bond, so it\u2019s logical that, if that is a fact, there will be people that would love to take on a greyhound but can\u2019t afford the bond. Look, we\u2019re not talking about thousands of people here. It might only be a couple of hundred, but when we\u2019re trying to find homes for 2,900 greyhounds, this is a practical way to help to get there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022acf7de2ad0864ee2869a0f767e6375b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acf7de2ad0864ee2869a0f767e6375b4\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I get what he\u2019s saying. One practical problem is that the pet bond system won\u2019t be operational until late next year anyway. There\u2019s a bunch of back-end stuff that the Ministry of Business, Innovation, and Employment is in\u00A0the\u00A0middle of: quite a large upgrade to the tenancy system. It\u2019s pretty antiquated, to be honest. As I understand it, the bond system is called Bond 2000, which gives you a sense about when it was built. It\u2019s 24 years old\u2014so credit to the last Government, which kicked off a process of upgrading it; it\u2019s probably overdue. Actually, the first stage of it went live a couple of weeks ago, and there\u2019s other stuff happening. The pet-bond system won\u2019t be operational until probably late 2025, early 2026. That\u2019s OK, but we do have an issue in the next year or so around these greyhounds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI think we\u2019re unlikely to support the amendment. I understand what he\u2019s trying to do. What I will give him a commitment on is that there is going to be further legislation around greyhounds which has been signalled by the Deputy Prime Minister next year. I\u2019m not the responsible Minister; I\u2019m happy to try and facilitate some constructive conversations around how we might look at this issue of rehoming in the context of tenancy law, in the context of that legislation. I\u2019m just reluctant to commit to something here on the floor of the Chamber that we just haven\u2019t thought through; that\u2019s not a great way to make law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI\u2019m happy to go away and consider it properly, and it may be when we legislate in the new year around greyhound racing generally\u2014which I hope the Opposition will support as well\u2014we can do some maybe other wider changes around tenancies in relation to greyhounds. I\u2019m getting a little bit ahead of the Government and the Cabinet here, but it\u2019s pretty clear we\u2019ve got 3,000 dogs to rehome, as the member knows, and we want to make sure we do right by those dogs. I\u2019m happy to look at it in that context. I\u2019ll keep looking at it, thinking about it, but I think we\u2019re unlikely to support his amendment. But I acknowledge the issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3868cb2021344b8a979701d16344428\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3868cb2021344b8a979701d16344428\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much. I thank the Minister for the response. I would encourage him to at least seek advice on this now. I thank him for his commitment to consider this later, but just to address his concerns around the pet bond thing not being up and running for a while, that\u2019s all good because greyhound racing isn\u2019t set to be banned until 2026 and the proposal in the first part of this is for a period of four calendar years to account for that. Whether this is in or not, we\u2019re still going to be facing the same problem, but we\u2019re certainly going to be facing it in greater numbers from early 2026 onwards as the industry starts to wind down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, we don\u2019t know how long this debate will go on for. It\u2019s possible that you might get advice on this and a response, potentially, from coalition partners on this before we finish the committee stage. That\u2019s possible. It might be that your officials look at this and go, \u201COh yeah, we can make that work.\u201D, and then\u2014given the goodwill that was shown in Parliament yesterday towards the greyhound issue\u2014it might be that your coalition partners see the logic in this as well. Who knows? It\u2019s worth a crack.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00223e6bf239383e46829ce08bf3c8ddd5e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e6bf239383e46829ce08bf3c8ddd5e6\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I just wanted to go back to the issue around bond support through the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s housing products and my concern that they are not being extended to ensure that pet bonds can be covered on top of the existing general bond. I\u2019m referring to the regulatory impact statement, where it looks at impacts on others\u2014Government, consumers, etc. It does make it really clear in the regulatory impact statement that lower-income tenants, including beneficiaries and pensioners, will be disproportionately impacted by the upfront costs of pet bonds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EAgain, I\u2019m still disappointed that no consideration has been given to the extension of housing product to support pet bonds to beneficiaries or those on low incomes. I wanted to put forward an amendment but it doesn\u2019t seem to be within the scope of this, so I\u2019m unable to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe other thing is that the Minister has said that the pet bonds won\u2019t be up and running for quite some time. I would ask the Minister whether he would consider going away and having a discussion with the Minister for Social Development and Employment to see whether or not that recoverable assistance\u2014they do pay it back\u2014can be included. I\u2019m concerned that there are some landlords who have allowed pets already and have charged a pet bond. Some beneficiaries and those on lower incomes have been able to keep pets in rental properties but, actually, that ability is going to decline for them because once this is introduced, yes, it will mean that more tenants are able to keep pets in general, but it will be fewer in terms of those on lower incomes or a benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe other thing I want to point to is a submission made by the Citizens Advice Bureau and their comment on the pet bond. Although they were pleased to see that landlord will have to provide a written response to the tenant\u2019s request to keep a pet, and where consent is refused will have to provide written reasons for the refusal, they are anxious about the workability of proposed section 42F, \u201CReasonable grounds for prohibiting tenant from, or refusing tenant consent for, keeping pet\u201D, in clause 16. They say that the broad categories of \u201C(a) the premises are not suitable for the pet or pets \u2026 (d) the pet or pets are not suitable for the premises\u201D invites subjective assessment by the landlord. They also state that the legislation as drafted already deems these to be reasonable grounds for refusal but there are no requirements that the decisions about suitability are on reasonable, objective, evidenced-based grounds, and they are concerned that this could lead to more disputes that require the involvement of the Tenancy Tribunal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWith reference to that particular section, I would like to know from the Minister what is the workability of that proposed section, and has he received any advice that this particular section could lead to more disputes that require the involvement of the Tenancy Tribunal as a result of these changes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u002256aab2552fee4817a67efbe38a810ab5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256aab2552fee4817a67efbe38a810ab5\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I just saw the Minister get up, so I was going to let the Minister respond first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245b905d07901441db7ebd06b9994e68c\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll let you go first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a75c63635be741e3bed756c276bf7363\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Thank you, Minister. Thank you, Mr Chair. Now, I just want to go back to something the Minister said before, regarding disability assist dogs. I thank the Minister for mentioning that, yes, the bill does make it clear that people do not need to pay a pet bond if they have a disability assist dog, but one thing the Minister said that kind of got me a little bit alert was around the fact that we think that this bill has the right balance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe problem is that this bill has no balance, because by not including \u201Cdisability assist dog\u201D under the definition of pet, nothing in clause 8 or clause 16 includes it. If that isn\u2019t supposed to be the Minister\u2019s intention, if we can get the Minister just to explicitly state that, actually, yes, disability assist dog is not part of the definition of pet and absolutely this does include disability dogs, and disabled people should not be discriminated against because of the fact that \u201Cdisability assist dog\u201D is not part of the definition, ergo not covered under clause 8 and clause 16.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EMy question to the Minister is around the written consent, and I\u2019m kind of following on from what the Hon Carmel Sepuloni said in terms of reasonable grounds. I think one of the things is\u2014well, two things. Number one is that, although in new section 42F there\u2019s a list of what is considered reasonable grounds\u2014and we\u2019re looking at new subsections (a) to (f)\u2014there is no mention in this bill of what unreasonable grounds may be. I think it is important, if the Minister wouldn\u2019t mind, enlightening the committee by giving a couple of examples of what he considers to be unreasonable grounds for prohibiting tenants from keeping a pet. That\u2019s my second question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe third question I have is around one of our amendments\u2014and this is Amendment Paper 225, by my colleague Tamatha Paul\u2014around the list in new section 42F. Now, one of the other things that I think the Hon Carmel Sepuloni put very nicely from the Citizens Advice Bureau is: what is the workability of some of these reasonable grounds? But, from my perspective, just going a little bit deeper, what was concerning, and what we\u2019re hoping to address with Amendment Paper 225, is the fact that the list is non-exhaustive. It says, \u201Cinclude the following (for example)\u201D. What is going to go beyond this particular list, which I feel is already quite exhaustive? What are some of these additional examples that the Minister can think of for reasonable grounds for a prohibition that is beyond what is listed here in (a) to (f)? If there isn\u2019t, I would ask the Minister to consider the Amendment Paper, which changes the phrasing from \u201Cinclude the following (for example)\u201D to \u201Care limited to the following\u201D and make (a) to (f) an exhaustive list. That is my third question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI think my last question is sort of, I guess, a consequence of a tenant being denied consent to keep a pet under new section 42E. We know that there are good tenants, there are good landlords\u2014all of those\u2014but we also do see some horrible cases where landlords do use the power that they may have to deny certain rights to the tenant and use the legal system or the tribunal system as a way of doing that. I want to know: what is some of the scope around if a landlord refuses and the tenant challenges that? Yes, new sections 42E(5) and (6) are very clear on committing an unlawful act, but that will only stand if the proposed or the potential tenant takes them, presumably, to the Tenancy Tribunal. That is an extra burden, again, on the potential tenant. What are some of the mechanisms to prevent some of that? Those are four questions for the Minister. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3011767581a483c8e98abb8fb4343b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3011767581a483c8e98abb8fb4343b3\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ve sort of covered these issues about three or four times now. Just very briefly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225102e0d4bfd54cd484526a3dd97f596d\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Not necessarily.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022881099687a154b078ceb0389b8232e4e\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I just\u2014the member\u2019s really worried about the definition of \u201Cpet\u201D in relation to disability dogs. I\u2019ve addressed this three times now, but for the absolute avoidance of doubt: the definition of \u201Cpet\u201D in the bill expressly excludes disability assistance dogs as defined in section 2 of the Dog Control Act 1996. It\u2019s a standard drafting practice where a definition typically applies to the entire Act. The exclusion of disability dogs as pets is relevant to the pet bond provisions, the pet consent provisions, and the pet damage liability provision. As I said\u2014I\u2019ve said it twice now\u2014guidance issued at the time the bill passes, available online, makes it clear that the pet provisions cannot be applied to disability assistance dogs. We\u2019ve thought about it, covered it off, said it three times now. I think we\u2019ve dealt with that issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to his points around new sections 42E and 42F\u2014this is about reasonable grounds. The word \u201Creasonable\u201D is used in the Residential Tenancies Act over 140 times, OK? It\u2019s the basis of tenancy law, largely, and so it\u2019s used extensively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b8cf0325ebd4023be24850675201bc5\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: And abused extensively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ed99bdcf458491f844a04164432dbf7\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is used extensively. I think the member suggested at one point that we make the provisions in section 42F exclusive and exhaustive. I don\u2019t think he actually wants that. Section 42F includes without limit\u2014so it makes it clear, essentially, some examples of where reasonable grounds for prohibiting a tenant from keeping a pet in a tenancy agreement would be. These are things I think most people would think are pretty reasonable: premises that aren\u2019t suitable for the pets because of the size of the fencing, tenancy hasn\u2019t complied with relevant bylaws related to pet, pets not suitable due to the number, propensity for causing damage. People might be able to disagree about some bits of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWell, I think it\u2019s a non-exhaustive list for a reason: because it\u2019s one of these things where lawmakers can\u2019t always envisage every different scenario that might possibly happen, because we don\u2019t have the wisdom of Solomon. We don\u2019t have the wisdom of Solomon, and the law needs to be general to allow for a range of different circumstances. The aim of section 42F is to outline some non-exhaustive examples of unreasonableness, but, ultimately, the test of that is through the Tenancy Tribunal. That is just the status quo. As I say, \u201Creasonable\u201D is in the Act, I\u2019m advised, over 140 times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI mean, there will be\u2014I think this deals with the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s point as well\u2014tribunal cases as a result of the pet provisions, and that\u2019s entirely appropriate. My advice to landlords and to tenants is as it is for everything in tenancy law, which is: things are always better when people don\u2019t go off to court. No landlord wants to be stuck in the tribunal and no tenant wants to end up in the tribunal complaining about their landlord and fighting through the tribunal. It\u2019s time-consuming, it\u2019s expensive, it\u2019s mentally taxing, it\u2019s a nightmare for everybody. No one wants that. My general advice to everybody\u2014and I say this all the time when I meet with landlords and I meet with tenancy groups, which I do\u2014is just be reasonable; just act with compassion and common sense. Life would be a lot simpler if everybody just was reasonable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m a reasonable guy\u2014I\u2019m a reasonable guy\u2014but clearly not everybody is reasonable, otherwise, life would be a lot simpler. They aren\u2019t, and that\u2019s why we have the court system and that\u2019s why we have the tribunal system. If everyone followed the law, life would be good, but they don\u2019t, so we have things to make sure that rights and obligations are enforced. So we have a tribunal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWill there be tribunal cases as a result of the pet laws? Of course there will. Because it\u2019s not been legislated before in New Zealand and it\u2019s new, and we\u2019ll just work our way through. That\u2019s fine. I\u2019m comfortable with that. If there\u2019s some really weird tribunal rulings coming out, well, as I said to the Hon Kieran McAnulty, this will be an iterative process. We won\u2019t get everything right the first time. It\u2019s new to New Zealand law. It\u2019s the right thing to do. I think broadly people support that. We may have to come back and legislate in the future. That\u2019s OK; Parliament legislates all the time. It\u2019s all good, and we\u2019ll do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022 data-id=\u00220645d7876420419597fad8a5537e83c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220645d7876420419597fad8a5537e83c6\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00227c6e597d8bbb445ca8f97b15faedf84b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c6e597d8bbb445ca8f97b15faedf84b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Carmel Sepuloni\u2014we will be looking for new material.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u002247e32a8990df4483a1c7aeb226d0e281\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247e32a8990df4483a1c7aeb226d0e281\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Actually, a lot of the questions that I asked previously were responded to, except for one, and so I am going to re-ask it. Given that the Minister of Housing has said that there will be a longer lead-in time for introducing the pet provisions, is he going to go away and talk to the Ministry of Social Development about extending the housing product that will support lower-income New Zealanders and beneficiaries to get access to additional bond to cover the expense for the pet bond, given that his own regulatory impact statement does state very clearly that it is low-income New Zealanders and beneficiaries that will be disproportionately and negatively impacted by a pet bond being introduced?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002285ba3cbae84240faaccd42defab800e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285ba3cbae84240faaccd42defab800e1\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I have a new question related to pet bonds. New section 18AA(3), inserted by clause 8: \u201CIf the landlord lawfully increases the amount of the rent, the landlord may require payment of a further sum of pet bond not exceeding the amount by which the rent payable for 2 weeks has been increased.\u201D I know the Minister is trying to find a balance here, but we\u2019ve established through various exchanges that for some people the level of pet bond may well be a barrier to them being able to have a pet, even if the landlord is willing to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EMy question around this relates to what will potentially be an annual increase in the pet bond. Now, we already have in the material here that at two weeks, the average national weekly rent is $1,160, and that\u2019s 2.9 times the median pet damage awarded by the Tenancy Tribunal in recent decisions, of $402.50. The amount of damage isn\u2019t actually linked to the rent, and so if there\u2019s a provision where the pet bond is likely to increase on an annual basis alongside rent increases, that doesn\u2019t actually mean that the median pet damage is likely to increase at a similar rate every year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIf the median pet damage is $402, and two weeks\u2019 rent is pretty much three times that, with the potential for an annual increase, my concern is that for some tenants they will rummage up the two weeks\u2019 pet bond but they may struggle to absorb the increase in rent. Now there\u2019s going to be an additional amount on top of that as the pet bond increases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not disputing the rent increases. That\u2019s a discussion and argument for another time, possibly at another part of this bill, but in this one, I\u2019m not sure that\u2019s necessary and I can\u2019t see how this inclusion would act as an additional incentive to landlords, when they\u2019ve already got the bond, which is already three times the damage. If the rate of damages was going up at a similar rate, I could understand, but linking it to rent increases means that the discrepancy between the weekly rent\u2014i.e., that\u2019s linked to the bond; two weeks\u2019 rent for the bond\u2014and the damage is just going to over time steadily grow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIf we look at the advice that was provided around the three weeks\u2019 rent\u2014and I\u2019m pleased the Government didn\u2019t go there; they did say they were trying to find a balance\u2014it demonstrates that that would be too high and it wouldn\u2019t be effective. But, over time, with this provision in here, we will get to that point and we would end up in the situation that the Government has been advised not to do. I\u2019m keen to hear from the Minister the rationale behind this and whether he would be willing to consider adjusting this so that we don\u2019t have an increasing discrepancy between the two.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002269bfdc836a6e4adb81882530a17f06f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269bfdc836a6e4adb81882530a17f06f9\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll just deal with that point because it\u2019s a good one. Firstly, in relation to the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s point, we\u2019ve made a decision not to do that. She\u2019s asked me to go away and talk to the Ministry of Social Development. I\u2019ve done that. We\u2019re not doing that at this time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s point, basically, this replicates what is the existing law for general bonds. If you are a landlord and you increase the rent lawfully, say $20 a week, technically you can require a bond payment\u2014the bond that has already been lodged\u2014because you\u2019d be increasing it. You might be charging $500 a week, you might charge four weeks\u2019 bond\u2014$2,000\u2014and you increase the rent to $520. Technically, you can require an additional bond payment on top of that to reflect the maths around four weeks. I\u2019m advised most landlords don\u2019t do that. I don\u2019t know, there\u2019ll be plenty of tenants and former tenants in the Chamber. Certainly my time renting and flatting, I had the landlord increase the rent but never had the landlord say, \u201COh, actually, also you need to go chuck another $20 or $40 bucks with tenancy services to reflect the four weeks\u201D. That just remains what was lodged at the time of the initial bond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe provision in new clause 18AA just replicates that provision for general tenancies without pets into the pet bonds, but I\u2019m advised that most landlords don\u2019t do that, and my expectations would be that the same thing would happen. It just replicates what the existing law was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022d51e07684bd842e3b4af207e945daacb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d51e07684bd842e3b4af207e945daacb\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0e7c417c998444f8a14ea6bbf2977e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0e7c417c998444f8a14ea6bbf2977e4\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, for the opportunity to take a call on my amendment. This hasn\u2019t been discussed in the committee stage, and I appreciate the Minister\u2019s engagement on the issue of greyhounds. This is a new solution to the same problem, but an entirely different approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EBecause the Minister has really helpfully outlined for the committee what the problem would be with the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s approach to add on, essentially, an ability for a landlord to claim back more costs if the damage was caused by a greyhound, thus eliminating the risk of discrimination by landlords against tenants for those who own greyhounds, the suggestion here is to prohibit discrimination against tenants who own greyhounds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThis is something which is pretty common in the law. There are lots of things that landlords can\u2019t ask their tenant and can\u2019t be required for their tenant to explain to them and also can\u2019t then make decisions about whether their tenancies can continue based on those factors. My amendment as it is drafted now would add in a prohibited grounds of discrimination if someone owns a greyhound.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s a good point from the Minister that we don\u2019t want to accidentally cause a situation in the law where it\u2019s cheaper and therefore easier for a landlord to limit their risk to pet damage by making sure that if there is going to be a dog in the property, it\u2019s not going to be a greyhound. This would simply not allow them to ask the breed of the dog and it would mean that it was prohibited grounds if they did know that the dog was a greyhound\u2014some simple changes there which the House is probably ready to take a policy position on because it\u2019s quite simple and it would amend the law in a way which also doesn\u2019t require any further work to be done to bond $2,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EAs the Minister said, one of the concerns he had with the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s amendment is that there is some work to do by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment here to get the system up to speed. Because this amendment is drafted in a way that means the landlord may not require the payment, there is no need for the payment to be made in the first place, and therefore there\u2019s no requirement for the payment to be paid back. It doesn\u2019t hit the system at all. If we do it this way with a prohibited grounds of discrimination, no money\u2019s changing hands and there\u2019s no system requirement to push it out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022c254f0f4aa6c4e9587337c9455651df3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c254f0f4aa6c4e9587337c9455651df3\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c02c41002dbe4f2cb0cf5b2e7f0be033\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00226b82f5a486734617a70fc887bad548f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b82f5a486734617a70fc887bad548f2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment inserting new subsection (1B) to his tabled amendment to clause 8 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f8d02a264eed48369034f7f72724a36f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be\u00A0agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002222d94ea7984e4f00ac24dda00e69dbb5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222d94ea7984e4f00ac24dda00e69dbb5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 8 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022dc4c339a16f947c28b015e565391fe73\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00229c62be5299b04675ba29fb46dee527dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c62be5299b04675ba29fb46dee527dc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 8 inserting new subsections (1A) to (1AC) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226efed9b3a61a45bf86362405d1563b2c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00228cc80a75d07d45e5bf5e79797aa4a3d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228cc80a75d07d45e5bf5e79797aa4a3d8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Steve Abel\u2019s amendments to Part 1 set out on Amendment Paper 218 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022619ba2c1c6574631b832c87d60ba8642\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00222e4a3d32213c42a49e43fac269d91490\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e4a3d32213c42a49e43fac269d91490\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s amendments to Part 1 set out on Amendment Paper 219 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224bd8a057c4534121b59262ddfd8d12f8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8605880e8f04da586e4c2a8ed058671\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8605880e8f04da586e4c2a8ed058671\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Tamatha Paul\u2019s amendments to clause 16 set out on Amendment Paper 220 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fb8a5821869f40a5928ac00ebcd2e44e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00226971cd89cfad4d059b02dbb30fc3f1a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226971cd89cfad4d059b02dbb30fc3f1a0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Tamatha Paul\u2019s amendment to clause 16 set out on Amendment Paper 224 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022be82b7c3aeae4dda9f78739410549ad6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022d52f9d8b518f4ff1bdd117babed67fb0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d52f9d8b518f4ff1bdd117babed67fb0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Tamatha Paul\u2019s amendment to clause 16 set out on Amendment Paper 225 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d92d78c67c884edd995901f0284e7cfd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00228a07a6a9058c4d79bf1e1c93f22bc39d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a07a6a9058c4d79bf1e1c93f22bc39d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Francisco Hernandez\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 16 new section 42E(1) replacing \u201C21 days\u201D with \u201C14 days\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022040307aa0f0b413095efb59d3abb1f9c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ce98af5afd6743b49de4b6bb8df2a4fb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224b25e3ee3d8c4880aef80628afbaa1a7\u0022\u003EPart 2  Termination of tenancies\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00221fd83ff4afa949a99a71b111aa94eb25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221fd83ff4afa949a99a71b111aa94eb25\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to Part 2. This is the debate on clauses 21 to 29, \u201CTermination of tenancies\u201D. The question is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022400e2a2666534cdaa988af1a887439d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022400e2a2666534cdaa988af1a887439d3\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I have two questions for the Associate Minister of Housing to start this section off. This is the part of the bill where the rubber hits the road for tenants, where their rights are being stripped away by a Government that does not care that it is weakening their position, where it is making landlords empowered to not only kick their tenants out with 90 days for no reason but also to weaken their rights in other ways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve spent a whole part discussing how the Government is being so kind with its approach to pet bonds, without any sort of analysis about how the market will be affected. Not only will rents continue to rise under this approach, as the Treasury predicted at its Budget predictions, but also people will be affected here. There is no intention, as the Government Minister in the chair previously said, for Ministry of Social Development clients and those receiving a benefit to be able to use the benefits to increase the availability of pet bonds. There\u2019s no intention here for further work to be done on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EMy question to the Minister is: if we\u2019re weakening the rights of tenants here by increasing the incentives for investors to buy up more of the existing stock of properties\u2014that\u2019s the effect\u2014and at the same time we\u2019re making insecure tenants feel even more desperate that they need to get into a house of their own, both of those factors will push rents up, up, and up. Is it his position that clause\u00A022, which reintroduces 90-day no-cause evictions, will drive up rents? And does he agree with Treasury\u2019s predictions at the last Budget that rents will continue to rise under his watch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022 data-id=\u00221301dffbbcbf44929cd7055041d55fc4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221301dffbbcbf44929cd7055041d55fc4\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and kia ora Minister Potaka\u2014nice to have you here and hope that you\u2019ll be able to respond to some of my concerns that I\u2019m about to bring up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EI believe this is the appropriate part to bring up what I was trying to get at previously. I want to dig into the evidential basis behind no-cause evictions, because, Minister, you\u2019re making a really big call in bringing these back, given that this is going to impact more than 1 million renters in our country and make them vulnerable to being evicted and kicked out of their home for no good reason. I want to understand: where\u2019s the evidence? We were told throughout the select committee that the rationale behind this bill was that it would allow landlords and property managers to take a chance on risky tenants by bringing them in and being able to kick them out if they don\u2019t like their behaviour. Where\u2019s the evidence for that? I mean, that didn\u2019t come up at all throughout the select committee process in my recollection of it. I\u2019m just trying to understand where the facts are to back that up, because I don\u2019t think they exist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EI believe that the reason that these no-cause evictions were brought back was because it\u2019s politically popular to do so, despite the fact that in the submissions on the bill around no-cause evictions\u2014again\u201497 percent of submitters were opposed to no-cause evictions being brought back, and 53 percent of property managers and landlords were also opposed to no-cause evictions being brought back. Where are the facts to back up bringing them back, given there\u2019s such huge risk to the 1\u00A0million - plus New Zealanders who are now vulnerable to being kicked out for no good reason at all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u002259ca2b4ff530487189642f4ed480f35d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259ca2b4ff530487189642f4ed480f35d\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I sat through the submissions, and this was the most contested part of the bill. So many issues were raised with the additional vulnerability that will be put on tenants as a result of reinstating the no-cause termination for tenants. We were all concerned, sitting in the Social Services and Community Committee, that we\u2019re going to see more transient families, concerned that we are going to see families discriminated against, and they will not take up their right to that retaliation clause that\u2019s in here because that is incredibly complex. As we know, many of these vulnerable families are not likely to go to the Tenancy Tribunal to complain about the landlord.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThere are a number of things that I\u2019m concerned about when I look at even the disclosure statement for the bill and also the regulatory impact statement. I want to know from the Associate Minister of Housing why he has decided to ignore the advice in the regulatory impact statement where it states: \u201CLandlords\u2019 ability to terminate a periodic tenancy \u2018in any other case\u2019 (a no-cause termination) was considered to negatively impact tenant wellbeing and disincentivise them from exercising rights and raising concerns\u201D. That\u2019s what I was just speaking to and it\u2019s actually in the advice that accompanies the bill. The statement also noted that \u201Calthough the RTA enables tenants to challenge terminations they suspect have been issued in response to them exercising their rights, tenants may not feel empowered to do so as it may be difficult to prove this if no reason is provided.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI need to question the Minister on how he would allow this to go through, why he will not consider any changes, given the fact that the submissions were overwhelmingly opposed to this and even the officials\u2019 advice states or reiterates the same concerns that were raised by\u2014I do believe, as Tamatha said\u201497 percent of submitters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EDuring the select committee process, I raised a question that was unable to be answered by the officials. However, I wanted them to go away and see if they could find the answer. I\u2019ll put that question now to the Minister. That question is in relation to how long it actually takes an individual or a family to find and secure another rental property once they leave\u2014have their tenancy terminated\u2014the property that they are residing in. I\u2019m concerned that we were never presented with any evidence to show that. In cities, in areas where there are housing shortages\u2014places like, I can say, West Auckland, Auckland, where it\u2019s quite often difficult to secure a rental\u201490 days may not even be sufficient for that family or individual to be able to secure their next rental property.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EAs an electorate MP, we have seen this over the years\u2014particularly, I have to say, between 2008 and 2017\u2014where we had a number of constituents who would come through our office very clearly stating that they were not able to get into another rental property so, therefore, were in a position where they were seeking out emergency accommodation because of the fact that rental properties were not widely available or easy for them to access.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI want to know from the Minister whether or not he received any advice on the risk of those who have their tenancies terminated and are not able to find their next rental property are having to seek out support from the Ministry of Social Development for emergency accommodation, and what that might mean for the Minister\u2019s own target of reducing emergency housing in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00229f053ab95770449799e92706acc1090c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f053ab95770449799e92706acc1090c\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. It\u2019s pretty disappointing, to say the least, that the Associate Minister of Housing hasn\u2019t taken the opportunity to stand up and respond to what are genuine and, frankly, straightforward questions. If we are actually to be able to dive into this part\u2014the substance of the bill, essentially\u2014we need to understand the Government\u2019s rationale. We need to understand what they have based that on before we can actually look in great detail about why they\u2019ve landed where they\u2019ve landed, the number of days, etc. We know that when this bill was announced, and as it has progressed through the parliamentary system, the Government have claimed that this bill will help address the housing crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, in the first part, we have discussed this, I think, quite constructively\u2014we\u2019ve come with ideas on how to improve it\u2014but we can\u2019t even start to look to improve this until we understand what it\u2019s based on. Previously, if a Minister wasn\u2019t getting up to answer questions, we could rely on the regulatory impact statement to give us an idea, but it\u2019s quite clear when this is read that the Government didn\u2019t give departments enough time to actually come up with analysis to assist Parliament. Now, that\u2019s not the department\u2019s fault. It\u2019s another example of the Government cutting corners to try to avoid scrutiny, which makes it even more important that the Minister stands up and answers questions. If we dive into the regulatory impact statement enough, we will see that the Government\u2019s claims that this bill will help the housing crisis appear to be unfounded. I say \u201Cappear\u201D because it hasn\u2019t been able to reach that conclusion because they weren\u2019t given enough time. The only way that we can get to that conclusion, or otherwise, is if the Minister answers questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll bring it right back to the most basic point. In the absence of a response\u2014once the Minister does respond, we will certainly have more questions\u2014I\u2019ll keep it real simple. How does this bill help solve the housing crisis? There\u2019s no mention in this bill about building houses. Actually, we\u2019ve got to look at this bill and this part in the context of the other changes that this Government has made, because the Minister needs to answer that pretty simple question in the context of them reversing the changes the previous Government made around interest deductibility, in the context that at least in part\u2014but, I would argue, predominantly\u2014because of that change, rents have gone up 7 percent according to the regulatory impact statement in the year leading up to this. What is going on here? We need to know from the Minister how this is going to solve the housing crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u0022e51d852095f947b39d437174f821fa26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e51d852095f947b39d437174f821fa26\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Associate Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to stand and respond to some of the questions today. It was really unfortunate I was unable to sit in the chair in relation to the pet bonds, because that\u2019s quite an issue dear to my heart here in the fishbowl of Wellington.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThe changes that are being proposed in this part of the bill are sensible and much needed, and they remove some of the barriers to ensure supply and flexibility for landlords in the market. Of course, there have been some observations\u2014or may I say allegations\u2014around rent increasing as a result of some of these changes, but, as we know, rents have dramatically increased over the last five or six years, and over the last 12 months there\u2019s been some stabilising of rent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003ERents do get influenced by a number of matters\u2014for example, immigration, supply, wage growth\u2014and it\u2019s clear to us that an increase of an average of $170 over the six years prior to the 2023 election, despite an extraordinary amount of coin being tipped into the housing market by way of subsidies and build costs, rents continued to increase. Despite some of the current determinations around terminations being put in place, rents continued to increase at a pace that has actually contributed significantly to the cost of living catastrophe that has faced ordinary New Zealanders, including those ones in West Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThe view is that changes will increase supply, and whilst that might come as a surprise to our colleagues on the other side of the Chamber, it is our view that the changes that are being proposed\u2014in the context that they\u2019re being proposed, and together\u2014will increase supply at the margins by giving landlords greater flexibility to rent to tenants and to a broader suite of tenants. That\u2019s something that I\u2019ve, obviously, witnessed, being involved in the property sector myself for the last two decades. The sense and the view that our team has on this side of the Chamber is that, by making these changes, we are able to see a lot more landlords be interested in broadening the suite of tenants and people who may rent homes, rent tenancies, from those landlords, because there\u2019s an increasing flexibility to deal with some complexities which currently cannot be dealt with under the current legislation. You actually get more choice for access by tenants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EWhilst there have been some observations around 52.8 percent of property associations and landlords opposing the change, actually, within some of those associations and groups who presented or who submitted during the select committee process, there were a number who submitted on behalf of many, many other landlords. So, yes, I acknowledge the submitters and the percentage of submitters, but when you actually get to the percentage of landlords opposing or not opposing, we haven\u2019t been able to penetrate that number. Whilst there are some observations around the reletting and the impact on the tightness of the market, recent evidence suggests that the time taken to re-let properties is actually longer, suggesting that the changes and the approaches that we have made are showing that the tightness in the market is easing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EAgain, we believe that there is a sensible, much-needed change, and that\u2019s captured here in this part of the bill. We do believe that it will increase flexibility for landlords, but it will also generate a greater opportunity for tenants to access rental arrangements. It\u2019s very sensible, and I commend Minister Bishop for his hard work on this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002218ed17832d5342bebdbbd1de510fe010\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218ed17832d5342bebdbbd1de510fe010\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d just make the note that, of course, the Associate Minister of Housing, by covering quite a broad range of issues there, has actually opened the debate considerably, and that will be no doubt taken into account in considering the subject matter of questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa5463b529b64404b74487640f8fee3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa5463b529b64404b74487640f8fee3c\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I do want to continue on. The Associate Minister of Housing started by stating that he wishes he\u2019d been here for the previous part of the bill with respect to pet bonds because pet bonds are close to his heart. I want to know whether or not Treaty of Waitangi obligations and M\u0101ori are close to that Minister\u2019s heart, given what is in the regulatory impact statement for this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s important to note that in this bill it states: \u201CEvidence suggests that the termination related proposals will negatively impact on actual and perceived security of tenure for many tenants compared to the status quo. These negative impacts are likely to disproportionately affect M\u0101ori, as M\u0101ori are more likely to live in rented accommodation, have a lower overall median income, and are more likely to experience discrimination than the general population.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s lovely that that Minister cares so much about pet bonds and that those are close to his heart, but this part of the bill is about the termination clause that he\u2019s bringing back in so that there will be no cause for termination and people can be booted out of their homes with no reason whatsoever. His own advice is telling that Minister that M\u0101ori are going to be disproportionately impacted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ENow, I want to know if M\u0101ori are close to that Minister\u2019s heart, and how he can justify this particular change, given that the evidence is right in front of him to say that, actually, they will be negatively affected. We heard the spin from the Minister: that this will result in more properties being tenanted and a \u201Cbroader suite\u201D of tenants getting access to rental properties. I don\u2019t know what \u201Cbroader suite of tenants\u201D means, but I do want to assume that he means M\u0101ori getting access to rental properties as well. However, if he is inferring that, then it\u2019s interesting to see that the evidence he was giving contradicts what he said when he took his feet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EMinister, I want to hear from you that M\u0101ori are close to your heart and to understand why you think this particular provision is going to be a benefit to M\u0101ori when what we have in front of us in the regulatory impact statement says the exact otherwise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022 data-id=\u0022871cbd443608495ab2b68d2937f76228\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022871cbd443608495ab2b68d2937f76228\u0022\u003ECELIA WADE-BROWN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Chair, and I\u2019ve got a number of questions for the Associate Minister of Housing about Part 2, clause 22, which seems to return the imbalance of power between tenants and landlords.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003EThe benefit to landlords is clear, but what does the Minister think is the benefit to tenants? Does he think that tenants will really be empowered to raise the retaliatory power? Do you think that they will be able to take that up? I\u2019m a car owner and I am a landlord. To check that my car is safe and healthy, it\u2019s not me who says my seatbelts are fine and my brakes are fine\u2014I take it to the garage to have that checked. Healthy homes\u2014I just make a declaration about the house, which I firmly believe is a healthy home, but there\u2019s no inspection unless there\u2019s a complaint. That\u2019s not fair. If a tenant wants their home to be healthy, not cold, not with non-compliant fires, poor heating, non-compliant smoke alarms, they are not in a position of power to raise those things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s look at what this removal\u2014this return to no-cause evictions\u2014does for tenants\u2019 health. Their physical health I\u2019ve alluded to with the healthy home aspect, but the mental health, the insecurity, the chance that they will have to move not just within the suburb where their child goes to school or they\u2019re on a doctor\u2019s list\u2014if they\u2019re lucky\u2014but they might have to move somewhere else, and the worry about it, even if they don\u2019t, is completely unreasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003EI have a little bit of insight into this issue, both as a landlord who is happy to have a healthy home but also I grew up in a council flat in London. At the age of 18 months, which I do not remember, we actually did have to move because the house was demolished for widening a road\u2014which may have formed some transport views, I admit! But then my grandmother, my half-sister, my parents, and I were rehoused in another home, and we never worried about whether next Christmas would be somewhere else, whether I\u2019d be able to go to the same preschool or the same school. We were able to be in the same place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003EWhat does the Minister think this change, making families move, will do for school attendance rates\u2014which are very important, we agree, across the House? Would they consider an exception for families with school-age children? Would they consider\u2014and I\u2019m surprised New Zealand First hasn\u2019t perhaps brought this up\u2014an exemption for 65plus? My other half-sister\u2014I have a few\u2014lives in Austria. She lives in a private rental. She\u2019s lived there for years. She\u2019s got gardens, she\u2019s got chickens\u2014I don\u2019t know whether they count as pets\u2014she\u2019s got a cat and a dog, and she feels safe there as long as she wants to continue living there. She\u2019s been there for eight or 10 years, whereas most people\u2019s tenancies in this country are far shorter. She knows that she can invest in furniture, curtains, the garden, the fencing without fear of being moved on in three months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003EIn fact, we are completely out of sync with many countries in our rules about tenancies. I\u2019d like the Minister to respond as to whether he thinks Sweden, Belgium, Denmark, Switzerland, and Spain are mistaken in not having no-cause evictions. There\u2019s got to be a serious reason. In Spain, for example, if the landlord wants to sell the house, first of all, the tenant has the right of first refusal, I think; but secondly, if the house or the flat is sold, the tenant can remain through that process and be a tenant of the new owner. We are very, very unreasonable, unfair, and uncompassionate towards people who rent, and that results in them being regarded as second-class citizens, whereas in other countries it\u2019s perfectly fine to rent all your life, to expect that your children will carry on renting in the same place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002226fb88b2a7284be0bf7e748afdb7997e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226fb88b2a7284be0bf7e748afdb7997e\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019d like to get some more information from the Associate Minister of Housing, Tama Potaka, because he made some interesting statements and we still haven\u2019t quite managed to get to the point of what the policy problem is in relation to reintroducing those 90-day terminations. He did say, and I think the term he used was \u201Cwider suite\u201D or a \u201Cbroader suite\u201D of tenants would be available, like it\u2019s a box of chocolates or something. I didn\u2019t quite understand that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWhen we go back to the regulatory impact statement, what it says in there is that the National Party\u2019s manifesto document and the ACT Party, in the coalition agreement, committed to reversing some of the changes made in 2020 to the Residential Tenancies Act. My question to the Minister is: maybe that\u2019s the primary underlying purpose? Maybe he would like to speak to that, because the regulatory impact statement does say that there is no clear evidence that the changes in 2020 caused an increase in rental supply or caused rent prices to go up. It states in there that a wide range of complex factors influence rental supply and rent prices, and that assessing the impact of individual factors is not possible. It is not able to be stated that that is, in fact, the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe Minister\u2019s own regulatory impact statement states that landlords, property managers, and investors, and organisations representing these stakeholders made a big plea to the Government and wanted those 90-day terminations with notice given to be reinstated. From the regulatory impact statement, it does appear that there is no causal link between increased rent prices and that it is a clause or a part of a political agreement that underpins how this Government got power, and that they were strongly lobbied by those landlords and those who stand to gain from kicking out people with no notification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThat is a real concern. The Minister needs to provide some evidence regarding the impact of the 2020 tenancy law reforms on rental supply and rent increases to demonstrate why this has been lifted. As we\u2019ve already seen from recent evidence provided by Statistics New Zealand, rent prices have continued to be high for tenants. In fact, their inflation rate is going up at a higher rate than the Consumers Price Index given what the Government\u2019s already done to take away the interest deductibility from landlords. If they\u2019ve already given landlords a tax cut and that\u2019s made no real impact on rents coming down\u2014they are going up more than food\u2014then how is this additional provision going to? It looks like he\u2019s just helping out his mates by giving tenants a rough deal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EDoes the Minister think that by giving tenants a puppy, they\u2019re going to ignore the fact that they can get kicked out of their house with no real cause? That\u2019s the kind of sickening part about this bill, when you put Part 1 and Part 2 together. Does the Minister think that giving people a puppy or a kitten compensates for the fact that he\u2019s taking away their right to live in a home? His own regulatory impact statement talks about the direct impact upon tenants in terms of family violence risk, mental health risks, and children attending school\u2014all of those crucial factors that already impact on people receiving lower wages. If they are kicked out of their home without any real reason\u2014because landlords can\u2014what are the social impacts on those people and how they continue to provide for their families and have stability in their lives?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIt seems to me that the regulatory impact statement provided by the Minister indicates that there are some significant risks. I think it is incumbent on the Minister to explain the actual policy problem that he is trying to fix with this legislation, which does appear just to be serving his mates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u00225d43721216b34b7fa0061262e773aa0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d43721216b34b7fa0061262e773aa0d\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Noting that the previous Chair, Greg O\u2019Connor, had talked about broadening the scope of the debate as a result of the Associate Minister of Housing, and noting how Part 2, particularly, touches on the impacts of no-cause evictions on people, I wanted to take it first of all to the Growing Up in New Zealand study, which identified that young people who had to move from their homes for reasons outside of their control, such as tenancy terminations, were more likely to experience homelessness and live in greater levels of hardship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EMy first question was: how can the Minister say this is to help landlords take a chance on people who might otherwise be homeless when the flip side of that is that no-cause evictions and weaker security of tenure also lead to more people becoming homeless?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThe second question I have in relation to this is: what difference does it make if you\u2019re hoping that this Government policy will reduce homelessness on one side and then the policy causes homelessness on the other?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EMy third question was in relation to the language that has been used by the Minister and other Government Ministers about landlords taking a chance on people. I wanted to understand if the Minister had a more granular definition on the types of groups that he believes landlords will be taking a chance on. I have heard language like \u201Crisky tenants\u201D, for example, from some Government Ministers, and I want to understand: what does that mean to the Minister, actually? I actually think there is a bit of marginalisation happening when it comes to the language that is used in relation to the types of tenants that we\u2019re talking about, particularly in Part 2, when it comes to the argument that landlords will take a chance on specific people. Like, what does he mean by that? To me, I can imagine some of the types of people that he may imagine, but I don\u2019t think those people deserve to be labelled as \u201Crisky\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EMy fourth question\u2014and then I\u2019ll recap all of those\u2014related particularly to some of the outside influences that he has alluded to in relation to the need for, particularly, the provisions in Part 2 of the bill. I am really curious to understand what evidential basis he\u2019s drawing upon to justify immigration settings to speak to the need for these provisions in Part 2. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI\u2019m particularly interested because he\u2019s made those comments in this debate. I think those comments should be based on evidence and I just simply don\u2019t think that it\u2019s helpful for a Minister to be whipping up immigration settings to justify no-cause evictions when actually, like, no-cause evictions will affect migrants; no-cause evictions will affect other members of the communities, and if the Minister wants to summon immigration settings to justify this bill, I think we deserve an evidential basis for that. What we do not deserve are Ministers whipping up anti-immigration sentiment to justify this bill when actually the reality is that this isn\u2019t even a Government that is committed to building enough public housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EAnyway, to recap my questions, I wanted to understand whether he used the Growing Up in New Zealand study at all when it came to making decisions on this bill. How did the research that\u2019s available to the Minister play a role into this? Then the second part is around the evidential basis for his arguments that this may reduce homelessness versus, for example, the risk of increasing homelessness. I wanted to get a clarification and a more granular definition of the types of tenants he perceives to be the ones that landlords will take a risk by taking them on, and then, finally, the evidential basis for how immigration settings justify this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7fe54a33740442db40d33dc1f579e3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7fe54a33740442db40d33dc1f579e3e\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. Some of mine, I think, really carry on from Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March but also some of the earlier questions that I asked. I do want to clarify that earlier I was speaking about the impacts on M\u0101ori; I think I might have said it was in the regulatory impact statement, but it was actually in the disclosure statement\u2014just to make that clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ENow I am looking at the regulatory impact statement and very interested to see that this policy of reintroducing 90-day no-cause terminations has been assessed for effectiveness and efficiency. For effectiveness in terms of landlords and giving them what they\u2019ve asked for and the reassurance that they\u2019ll be able to regain control of their property whenever they want\u2014well, that\u2019s double plus, so highly effective. In terms of supply, though\u2014which I think is important to mention, given that the Associate Minister of Housing said earlier that this will lead to better supply of rental property\u2014it\u2019s zero; this policy will not necessarily lead to more houses or more rental supply on the market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWhat I am particularly concerned about is efficiency where it states that, as a result of the reintroduction of 90-day no-cause terminations, there may be more churn in the market and higher residential mobility among renters: \u201CHigher residential mobility is associated with \u2026 [lower education,] employment, health, and \u2026 [wellbeing] outcomes.\u201D I want to ask the Minister what impact this policy\u2014with that in mind\u2014is going to have on their Government priority targets in various other areas, including their education targets and their target to reduce the number of people on jobseeker benefits. It\u2019s really clear that the advice is stating that this could lead to more transients, more housing mobility, and that there are social repercussions for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ESo, from the Minister, what is the advice that he\u2019s received on their Government targets and their ability to reach those targets as a direct result of this policy being implemented?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022 data-id=\u002279e02ede43a7437ba8117e2589bafb62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279e02ede43a7437ba8117e2589bafb62\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m grateful to take a call on this, particularly following the previous Chairperson\u2019s, Greg O\u2019Connor\u2019s, guidance around the Associate Minister of Housing\u2019s answers kind of opening up the broadness of what we can cover in our questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EI will stick to no-cause evictions because, obviously, that is the part that we\u2019re on. I notice that there\u2019s been a number of calls now\u2014three or four of them\u2014and the Minister hasn\u2019t stood up and answered any of those questions, so we still don\u2019t know what the evidential basis of this bill, and particularly behind no-cause evictions, is. That basically leads me to all of my questions, because there\u2019s so much in the regulatory impact statement (RIS) and in all of the supporting information around this bill that points to the fact that there is no evidential basis for the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EThe problem is that he doesn\u2019t answer the question and doesn\u2019t clarify what we\u2019re all trying to understand, which is: what led this Government to make the decision to bring back no-cause evictions? It just leaves a whole bunch of space for speculation. That\u2019s why all of us are all asking the same questions, trying to determine what the driver of this bill was. What was the reason? There isn\u2019t a reason, because if you look even at the RIS, it talks about the fact that this was something that was agreed to in the coalition agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EYou can see that there\u2019s a bit of a track record going on here, where we\u2019re having decisions made for us and decisions made that impact a lot of people in this House, simply on the basis of a coalition agreement. That\u2019s not a responsible way to make legislation or policy, and then to have the Minister stand up and say in response to the lack of evidence behind it, making all of these claims\u2014if you actually look at the RIS and those statements that you were making, they do not match up at all. How are we supposed to do anything except speculate on the intentions of this bill when we\u2019re not getting any answers and there\u2019s a big vacuum that\u2019s been left?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EWe can move on from that one, because the question that I want to understand is this. It\u2019s like what Ginny said, and didn\u2019t get an answer to: what is the policy basis and what is the problem that we\u2019re trying to solve for this bill? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EThat question has already been asked, but my follow-up to that is this: did the Government explore other potential ways to achieve that outcome that you seek? If the so-called intentions of no-cause evictions are to make it easier for landlords to take on \u201Criskier tenants\u201D\u2014whoever that is supposed to be\u2014then, surely, there are other ways to achieve that outcome that actually are founded in evidence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EClearly, no alternatives have been explored in developing a solution to that policy problem, because the outcome was already predetermined in the first place. They already knew exactly what they wanted to do because, again, it\u2019s in this magical coalition agreement that seems to overtake literally everything, including the founding document of our country\u2014but I won\u2019t go there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022371fa36ca6eb45958a998ef38f006d40\u0022\u003EFrancisco Hernandez\u003C/span\u003E: You should.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf6369cf9905492daa546ad1b7bdc8fa\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I might\u2014I might\u2014because we\u2019ve opened up the can of worms, haven\u2019t we?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c460e821bd0148d498daca762f51b6e1\u0022\u003EFrancisco Hernandez\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s been widened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dae549f057524d569cb8c0b2cd669e37\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, the can of worms is open. We\u2019ve got Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke over here\u2014no, I\u2019m just kidding. OK, all right, back to this\u2014back to this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EThere was one point in particular that I wanted to touch on in the RIS, and it\u2019s paragraph 106\u2014oh, and it just so happens to be the Treaty of Waitangi analysis of the termination proposals. That\u2019s great\u2014that\u2019s convenient. OK, paragraph 106: \u201CAs a result, the proposals may increase the risk that more households will need emergency housing and/or social housing.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EAgain, that makes me scratch my head about why we are pursuing this policy that is going to have major implications for the amount of people having to access emergency housing and public housing, because we\u2019re talking about these riskier tenants\u2014and I\u2019m sorry, but it\u2019s hard to not jump to the conclusion of who you\u2019re talking about when you\u2019re talking about these \u201Criskier tenants\u201D\u2014and also those are likely to be the people that do need to access emergency housing and social housing. Have we thought about those implications in terms of bringing back no-cause evictions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EThe other thing is that my colleague Celia Wade-Brown made a number of questions and talked about her experience within housing, and I think she raised some really important points that, again, were not responded to about the way that different countries have chosen not to adopt no-cause evictions. The particular example that I wanted to bring up that she didn\u2019t touch on was no-fault evictions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00228b425af8c5464a6d988345626b5fefbf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b425af8c5464a6d988345626b5fefbf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u002266b4c0cb20aa4e1ea29d7b5b328f6f43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266b4c0cb20aa4e1ea29d7b5b328f6f43\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Associate Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, thank you for the time to stand and to respond to some of the opinions that have been surfaced. Again, I hark back to one of the whakatauk\u012B, or proverbs, of my father: you are entitled to your own opinions but perhaps not your own facts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s proposals are intended to support supply and continue to keep downward pressure on rents. Whilst the opinions of various members opposite are very strongly and genuinely held, might I add, the opinion of the Government is that at the margins, the changes that are proposed will support supply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThere has been a comment\u2014quite a podium comment at the hyperbole Olympics\u2014around immigration being a driver of my observations. In fact, I\u2019ve had very, very little comments, and I think that that myopic nature of that particular comment is merely to fill out the Hansard. Please do not put words in my mouth when I didn\u2019t talk about immigration being a cause of my observations and the policy basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c375f029f0d4f33be239364dbd15e88\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: You did actually, Minister. Check the Hansard. You mentioned it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022600351a2bc0e46078373d11d8fbb7cb9\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Right, right. I did mention it. However, I did not mention it in substance, and starting to leverage that concern around immigration up and putting words in my mouth is highly unbecoming of that member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThere was also a number of comments around M\u0101ori and Te Tiriti o Waitangi. Guess what, people? M\u0101ori are disproportionately renters in this country, but also M\u0101ori are landlords, and those M\u0101ori landlords would welcome the flexibility to offer tenancies and houses to renters, whether they are M\u0101ori or not M\u0101ori. Whilst the members have opined and pontificated about what broadening choices for M\u0101ori renters means, I\u2019ll make sure to get those tamariki M\u0101ori out of emergency housing, when the members opposite consigned many tamariki M\u0101ori to living in dank emergency hotels and motels throughout the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EFact: price inflation for new rentals has actually gone down from 7 percent as at the end of the previous Government\u2019s administration, to 0.7 percent in the last couple of months. That, again, is an absolute illustration of the contextual changes and signals that this Government is undertaking. And, again, the provisions in this part of the bill are all about resetting the housing system as a whole and ensuring that we actually do provide for those many thousands of people who actually need a house\u2014particularly those at an affordable level and an affordable rental.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EAgain, there\u2019s a whole range of comments that have been made by members opposites about risks, but as the previous Minister for social development knows, and knows very well, the actual social-allocation system is based on risk and need. So, again, those members opposite who have commented around risk should take some time to undertake the relevant research required to better understand the housing system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2a39067995a44c1ad0ebe2a32dca850\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2a39067995a44c1ad0ebe2a32dca850\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Well, it\u2019s been quite interesting hearing the comments from the Associate Minister of Housing, accusing us of having a bunch of opinions when actually he\u2019s responded with zero substance on the matter. I think that does a disservice to the process here, which is to actually scrutinise the Government and the Minister\u2019s own understanding of his own legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI may just test the Minister on a more technical matter, particularly in clause 22 and the changes to termination by notice, particularly in the provisions that allow for less than 90 days to be given. If we go to subclause (2) around the landlord \u201Cmay terminate a periodic tenancy by giving at least 42 days\u2019 notice\u201D, there is a part there that includes \u201Cthe owner of the premises requires the premises, within 90 days after the termination date, as the principal place of residence for at least 90 days for the owner or a member of the owner\u2019s family;\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI want to understand the Minister\u2019s technical understanding of this part of the bill around what recourse exists for tenants who, basically, get kicked out of the place where they live, the home that they live in\u2014if the landlord tells them that they need it for a family member\u2014in the instance that that family member never moves in, also if the family member moves in for just a week. I think this part of this bill, this provision, makes it so easy for landlords to give way less than 90 days\u2019 notice, makes it so easy for a landlord to basically just say, \u201CWell, turns out I\u2019ve got a sibling coming over.\u201D, \u201CTurns out my son\u2019s coming over to stay for the holidays.\u201D, and if those plans never eventuate, you could end up easily kicking out a tenant, with that home remaining vacant and the tenant may find themselves with no recourse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EIf there is recourse, I\u2019m keen to know what it is and how easily the Minister thinks it can be accessed\u2014and whether the Minister thinks it\u2019s fair for the provisions of this bill to allow, for example, a tenant to be kicked out under clause 22 for, say, a family member to stay in that property for one week, when actually for the tenant that\u2019s been kicked out there\u2019s a whole life being turned upside down potentially, as my colleague Tamatha Paul noted. It was noted in the regulatory impact statement\u2014which I\u2019m surprised that the Minister\u2019s dismissing as just kind of opinions and ways to fill the Hansard\u2014as potentially increasing the need for emergency housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI go back to the fact that it seems to me there are provisions in this bill that have enabled landlords, with very few protections for tenants, to tell someone that they\u2019ve got a family member staying over for a week. That is not good enough. We should not be allowing landlords to actually kick someone out, to turn someone\u2019s life completely upside down, to potentially push them into emergency housing because a family member wants to stay there for a week\u2014potentially, provisions that may not need to even be substantiated by the landlord. I want to understand: what\u2019s the Minister\u2019s understanding of the recourse that exists for tenants to address this, if they find out that actually that family member never moved in, or if the family member moved in for, say, a very, very short period of time\u2014and if that recourse exists, whether he thinks it\u2019s realistic?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5bd0f875d4d435cb0419f04ecf4726d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5bd0f875d4d435cb0419f04ecf4726d\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E There\u2019s a reason we keep asking the Associate Minister of Housing for evidence: it is because he has refused to provide any. It\u2019s very difficult to then dive into the detail of this part without understanding what the Government has based their policy position on. We cannot rely on the regulatory impact statement because, as I said earlier, the Government didn\u2019t give the department enough time to provide that detail. If we are to understand why the Government landed on 90\u00A0days and why in certain circumstances they landed on 42\u2014as is outlined in clause 22(2)\u2014we need to understand what it is that they\u2019re basing it on. The problem for the Minister in refusing to answer a pretty simple question is that it becomes very clear that it\u2019s not based on any evidence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe other issue that the Minister has in trying to stand up and be clever is he\u2019s broadening the debate every time he stands up. This was something that was noted by the previous presiding officer, Greg O\u2019Connor. Instead of just answering the question\u2014like, in fairness, the previous Minister did. If you look at the way that Minister Bishop deals with this, he stands up and says, \u201CNow, the question from this member: here\u2019s the answer. The question from this member: here\u2019s the answer.\u201D What do we get from this Minister? Bluster and arrogance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EHe has introduced State housing, he has introduced emergency housing, which is very interesting, because the Government claims that by\u2014as outlined here in this part\u2014bringing it to 90 and in certain circumstances 42 days, this will help solve the housing crisis because it will mean that more landlords enter the market. I presume that\u2019s the case. They haven\u2019t actually made that connection. They haven\u2019t based it on any evidence. At the moment, it\u2019s just their reckons. Now, Minister, you are a landlord. Can you honestly tell the committee that these changes are going to help your tenants? I don\u2019t think any landlord can. But it does help landlords. Now, if this was part of a broader policy programme, perhaps they might have a point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ESince the Minister mentioned social housing, let\u2019s look at the broader context in which we need to look at this bill. This Government has sent a letter of expectation to K\u0101inga Ora which says that houses built next year will be 50 percent of the number of houses built the previous year. The houses after that will be only 400, and in Auckland, that number will reduce by 200. K\u0101inga Ora isn\u2019t going to be building houses in the future. If we look at the community housing sector, this Government has funded only 750 a year over the next two years. Additionally, during scrutiny week it was clearly established when talking to the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development that this Government\u2019s policy of tightening criteria in emergency housing is meaning fewer people are getting in. They\u2019ve accepted that the need has not reduced but acceptance rates have. Now, the way the Government is spinning that is that they\u2019re reducing the numbers in emergency housing. What\u2019s actually happening is they\u2019re not letting people in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWhy is that important? Because the Minister\u2019s made it relevant by his responses, and it is in that context that we ask the Government: how is this going to help the housing crisis? If they are not building K\u0101inga Ora houses in the future, if they are not funding community houses to the extent that they have been funded and to the extent that is needed, and fewer people are getting into emergency housing, this, by the Minister\u2019s own suggestion, will lead to more landlords entering the market. The level of consents have fallen through the floor and 12,000 construction workers have been laid off since this Government came in. Where are these people going to go? This here means that fewer first-home buyers will be entering the market if, by the Minister\u2019s own logic, reducing it to 90\u00A0days and in certain circumstances 42, more landlords will be going for existing stock. How does that solve the housing crisis? Two very simple questions which the committee deserves a direct answer to. What evidence is this based on and how will this help?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u002219d975b94f0947899212fd4022c8f6f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219d975b94f0947899212fd4022c8f6f4\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I thank the Associate Minister of Housing for engaging on this point about the effect of this change, specifically to 90-day no-cause evictions, to the availability of rental properties, and to the price of rents. It\u2019s helpful to have the Minister\u2019s analysis on the record, although I don\u2019t think we\u2019ve gotten to the bottom of whether this helps or hinders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EEven if we take his sort of framing of what this is meant to do as \u201Cjust around the margins\u201D, as not something which will fundamentally change the supply and demand for housing in New Zealand\u2019s market, I want to test with him some of what he\u2019s told the committee about the evidence that he has to refute Treasury\u2019s position that rents will continue to increase in this forecast term, because he has refuted that but not said why. I\u2019m going to put to him what I think he\u2019s said, in a way that we would also agree with, and then test it out from there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI think what he said is, to use his words, this is part of resetting the housing system as a whole. And I think what we are debating here is how to achieve better outcomes for both first-home buyers and renters. I would posit that that requires Ministers to move away from the zero-sum cycle of speculative investment which has characterised the New Zealand housing market in the last two decades.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EMy question for the Minister is: in the situation where we have a limited supply of housing, where this measure does not increase the supply of housing but, by weakening renters\u2019 rights, it does both incentivise landlords to buy up the existing stock and it incentivises first-home buyers to buy, because it is now harder to be a long-term renter\u2014not at the sort of 25 to 35 stage, but if you\u2019re a 35-year-old to 45-year-old that might have the capital but might be choosing to rent anyway with young children, it now becomes even more important that you are not subject to the vagaries of your landlord\u2019s whims, where you might be required to move within 90 days for no reason. It\u2019s even more of a desperate situation to get into your own house, and so both of those things are being driven up under this law change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EMy question to the Minister is: even if we accept that this is just about addressing housing supply at the margins and demand issues at the margins, doesn\u2019t this create a situation which is worse for the housing market\u2014that we incentivise the prices of houses to go up and up, even if it\u2019s just at the margins?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EAnd my question, really, to him is about whether this change is something that could not have been designed in a way where it only was about new stock. Because he has given us a good sense that this is about a suite of changes which reset the housing system, was there not a way that this campaign promise of various coalition partners could have been introduced to only affect new housing stock? The Minister, in his answer to my questions, said that there was a need for more houses to be built. That is right; that\u2019s not what this does. There\u2019s no incentive here for investors in houses\u2014for people who can afford to be landlords\u2014to buy new houses or to build new houses themselves and then rent them out. This actually incentivises them to buy older houses and to sort of play in a market of renters who are \u201Con the margins\u201D\u2014by his own admission. If this is about offering \u201Crisky renters\u201D more housing options, then we\u2019re down at the bottom of the market there, rather than the top of the market creating more additionality of housing supply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ECan the Minister help us understand, when he says that this is around the margins, what actual effect this is going to have on rents? And can he clarify for the committee whether he disputes the predictions that rents will continue to rise in the Stats New Zealand figures? Though he\u2019s given us the figures which support his claim for downward pressure on rents, we dispute that, given the official statistics show that there is not a change overall in the market. There are some regions where that does seem to be the case, I\u2019ll give him that\u2014South Auckland is one where migration is having such an effect that rental properties seem to be coming down in price or are hard to rent at the moment\u2014but, overall, the Statistics New Zealand data that is the latest set of data shows that rents continue to rise as Treasury predicted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022 data-id=\u00222cce38f12e314b9087c35ab926af5b16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222cce38f12e314b9087c35ab926af5b16\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, comrade Chair\u2014Mr Chair\u2014for allowing me to take this call. I just have a question for the Associate Minister of Housing\u2014a few questions. My first question is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022baf9118f69b24700aa63323ec16b0959\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll go with \u201CMr Chair\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225aae844e0d7f41b6b43fd81c8ef61170\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CMr Chair\u201D\u2014I clarified and said, \u201CMr Chair\u201D, Mr Chair. My question to the Minister is: I appreciate your reply on the question of immigration, so I just want to invite you, in your own words, to explain why you even mentioned it in the first place in response to some of the earlier questioning. If your intention was, as you say\u2014and I\u2019ll take it in good faith that you didn\u2019t intend to kind of link the issue of immigration to the housing shortage at all. I think we appreciate, I guess, in light of international events and how there\u2019s been a rise in xenophobia and anti-immigration politics overseas, why we might be sensitive to it here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI also want to ask questions, turning to clause 22, around the question of termination by notice. We know that the regulatory impact statement states that the positive welfare implications that come from security of tenure are one of the most common findings recognised through multiple studies and surveys, which includes reduced levels of stress and depression. I know that this Government has been working on the mental health strategy, and I think that is something that\u2019s been supported by all parties in this House. I think it\u2019s really good that there\u2019s a mental health strategy and we\u2019re working towards addressing that. I do note that the mental health strategy takes into account the social determinants of health.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EMy question is: has the Minister or the department quantified the impacts of no-cause evictions and the Government weakening security of tenure on mental health, and what the detrimental impacts of that might be on depression? The regulatory impact statement explicitly states the positive welfare implications that come from security of tenure. It also explicitly states, if you look at the impacts of this legislation, that there\u2019s a risk that it will increase the rate of emergency housing and/or social housing. We know that it will definitely reduce security of tenure. I know that there is a section here\u2014you know, there\u2019s some recourse that tenants might have around retaliatory notices, and we\u2019ll get to that later.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EAgain, restating my questions: if your intention wasn\u2019t to bring immigration to the issue of housing stock at all\u2014because, you know, they\u2019re kind of unrelated concepts\u2014why did you mention it in the first place? What was the kind of rationale behind it? And what is the quantification of the no-cause evictions and the Government weakening security of tenure on mental health and depression? We already know that these services are under severe pressure and in many ways are lacking. I know that there\u2019s a mental health strategy that\u2019s kind of been drafted in place\u2014I know that resources are being progressed to address that\u2014but if there\u2019s no quantification of them, or if there\u2019s no wider analysis that\u2019s actually been done on them, why has the Government been so comfortable in making these changes that are likely to exacerbate the risks to mental wellbeing around New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI think we have to acknowledge that mental health is a challenge that successive Governments have not risen to the challenge on, and I know that there is a cross-party plan to kind of work on it together. I think that\u2019s one of the best ways we can get enduring change on mental health issues in the House. It just seems like actions like this, where the Government\u2019s own explicit advice has said that it\u2019ll weaken tenancy security and therefore reduce the positive welfare benefits of secure tenure\u2014why are we proceeding with this in the first place? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4254b55cd264efba3c3317a213fdd86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4254b55cd264efba3c3317a213fdd86\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Associate Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, I appreciate the time just to stand and make a couple of comments. I just want to address the observation that perhaps my name is on the door of xenophobia and the innuendo that\u2019s been introduced in some of the observations in the Hansard today. Just to reject that innuendo, the comment that I made was that rents and supply can be affected by a number of factors: wage growth, cost to build, immigration\u2014a whole range of things can influence supply and can influence rents. That\u2019s the context in which it was made, and we got a little bit of a run-on of what the implications or consequences or interpretations of that might mean.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EIn relation to tenants and retaliatory notice provisions, the Residential Tenancies Act proposals actually give tenants a little bit more assurance that they can\u2019t be removed from a tenancy for enforcing their rights. The bill will do this by expanding the retaliatory notice provision to include a notice given by a landlord in response to enforcement action taken by a person or regulatory body such as the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, and repealing the 28-day time limit for tenants applying for an order that a termination notice was retaliatory, and, of course, misuse of termination ground is an unlawful act that may result in a $6,500 penalty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThe additional item that I thought it\u2019d be useful to mention is just around the point that\u00A0for tenants who want to terminate a periodic tenancy, it will be reduced back down to 21 days from the 28 days that it is currently, and this actually, in our view, provides a little bit more flexibility for tenants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThere were other comments that were made, and I was invited to make a response on them by the member for Manurewa. I\u2019d just say that if I was in a situation where I was a developer and I wanted to build some rental apartments or some rental houses, but I knew that I had no flexibility\u2014if I am the landlord\u2014around no-cause terminations, that, in the view of the Government, is a disincentive to actually build those houses or those apartments, and that\u2019s the sort of context in which we view these.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EAgain, the Government is very, very clear that we want to ensure there\u2019s the right balance and flexibility for landlords putting on rental arrangements and to ensure that sensible and considered changes are made in alignment with our coalition arrangements, and, of course, we\u2019re trying to ensure that there\u2019s a better housing system in place. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022e26a022b4bfe43b9a9fe33c417e296c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e26a022b4bfe43b9a9fe33c417e296c4\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I spoke a little bit to the departmental disclosure statement with respect to M\u0101ori, and I know that Tamatha Paul has spoken about this, but I have a couple of questions. If we turn to the regulatory impact statement and the Treaty of Waitangi analysis of the termination proposals, it\u2019s really clear that it will negatively impact M\u0101ori for a number of reasons, and I won\u2019t traverse that all again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe point that I think is of note is that the Waitangi Tribunal has indicated that where disparities exist, active intervention may be required by the Crown to remove those disparities, and it is likely these proposals will raise concerns and criticism from the Waitangi Tribunal in relation to the risk they result in further inequity\u2014article 3\u2014the lack of consultation with M\u0101ori, and inconsistency with the principles of partnership, participation, and active protection. I think this is big, and I want to know from the Associate Minister of Housing how he thinks that a policy like this that has that type of description about it is therefore conducive to good Crown-M\u0101ori relations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI would also like to know from the Minister why he has chosen to actively reinstate the disparity, given that it was only a few years ago that we took this away and ensured that landlords couldn\u2019t enforce no-cause terminations. Now he is reinstating the disparity that, clearly, disproportionately impacts M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThere are two questions there, relating to the Treaty of Waitangi and to M\u0101ori, and I\u2019d really like an answer from the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1b43a43669a4f0a97a899a0338151a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1b43a43669a4f0a97a899a0338151a8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I take the next call, I do note that the Associate Minister of Housing has addressed some of the broader questions that are being asked. If I can ask members to make their questions specific to clauses in Part 2, it would help the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u002225bec81c04da43f68584e410eed33efc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225bec81c04da43f68584e410eed33efc\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E All right. Thank you, Mr Chair; I\u2019ll set aside my notes on the economics of this change and focus now on clause 17, which inserts new section\u00A043AA. This is the provision that clarifies the extent to which a tenancy agreement may prohibit smoking in\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd33591b133a41359339df523c1559ee\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s in Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7e6690eb09044fab93da2648eedf735\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022945cefc131744288a5a050da26db7801\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022945cefc131744288a5a050da26db7801\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I have a very specific line of the bill, found in clause 22(1), which inserts new section 51(2)(b). I was asking about paragraph (a) beforehand. I think these deserve separate scrutiny because they\u2019re actually quite different ways in which a landlord can actually kick someone out way earlier than 90 days. The previous question I asked was in relation to a family member moving in. It seems to me that the Associate Minister of Housing confirmed to me that there\u2019s nothing stopping a landlord from literally lying and saying to a tenant, \u201CI\u2019ve got a family member moving in\u201D, but that may never eventuate and someone\u2019s tenancy gets basically ended in 42 days and someone\u2019s life gets turned upside down, or that family member just moves in for a day or a week. I\u2019d like some confirmation of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EIn subsection (2)(b), in clause 22(1), though, what I\u2019m referring to\u2014which is my new point\u2014is the line that says, \u201Cthe owner is required, under an unconditional agreement for the sale of the premises, to give the purchaser vacant possession;\u201D. It is our view that tenancies should transfer to a new owner. A landlord doesn\u2019t actually have to sell the property with a vacant possession. It\u2019s often considered that those properties may be worth a bit more, and I wondered whether the Minister did any analysis of exactly how much more those properties are worth when they\u2019re vacant as compared to otherwise, and compared that with the negative impact of someone\u2019s tenancy being terminated\u2014in 42 days, in this case\u2014as a result of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI say this because this is a genuine issue. This has been raised in The People\u2019s Review of Renting. We have people who said, \u201CI usually need to move house every 12 months due to landlords selling the house I live in to realise their capital gain. This has happened three years in a row and it costs me upwards of $1,500 for movers and cleaners and uses up my annual leave. Emotionally exhausting. No security at all when renting.\u201D And this is why I asked this question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWe do know from tenants about what this specific subsection (2)(b), found in clause 22(1), will cause to them. Therefore, I think the onus needs to go back to the Minister\u2014because he claimed to care a lot about facts\u2014to actually tell us what robust analysis has been done in terms of ensuring that, actually, this provision doesn\u2019t create financial hardship, stress, as has been identified by tenants and The People\u2019s Review of Renting, compared to, for example, the additional capital gains that a landlord or a property investor will be able to make by having a property being vacant when trying to sell. I\u2019m worried that this isn\u2019t substantiated. For somebody who\u2019s been criticised\u2014well, several of us have been criticised\u2014for just putting out their opinions, it seems to me that he wasn\u2019t able to substantiate subsection (2)(a) in clause 22(1), and I\u2019m really curious to know whether he can substantiate with facts why this paragraph (b) was put in when we do know from reviews that it has caused harm to tenants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI recommend, if the Minister hasn\u2019t read The People\u2019s Review of Renting, which was launched in 2017, that he does so, because he\u2019ll find plenty of robust analysis from people who have experienced his policies about what this specific paragraph in the legislation will cause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI do want to signal to the Chair that I do have other questions that are yet to come, particularly on clause 24\u2014that\u2019s paragraphs (a) and (b) of new section 54(2), inserted by clause 24\u2014but I\u2019m hoping that the Minister will address my comments and questions in relation to clause 22.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e39aab30a0b24cc4bd1d3c959adb3c80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e39aab30a0b24cc4bd1d3c959adb3c80\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Chair. It\u2019s interesting listening to the debate this morning. I\u2019m going to speak on clause 24, but I did want to make one brief comment before I jump into that, and it was the previous address by the Associate Minister of Housing around making it easier for developers to build and certainty for them and the fact they can kick people out whenever they want and do whatever they want. I think we\u2019ve got to consider, firstly, a mindset change here, because in New Zealand owning rental properties is an investment, whereas in Europe it\u2019s a home for life, right? We\u2019ve got to, I think, challenge the Minister to really consider the fact that it\u2019s a mindset shift in terms of what actually being a good landlord is. That\u2019s just a comment, but I\u2019ll move to clause 24, in Part\u00A02.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThis is around the replacement of section 54, where the tribunal may declare a retaliatory notice of no effect. This replaces section 54 where the tribunal may declare notice around retaliatory issues. We\u2019re considering this, because this is important, and so I guess my question is around whether you feel like the settings are right in this section. If I go to clause\u00A024, inserting replacement section 54(2), \u201CThe tenant may apply to the Tribunal for an order declaring that the notice was retaliatory on either or both of the following grounds:\u201D\u2014and it goes on with (a) and (b). Again, we\u2019re being thoughtful around this, because I think this is the issue, and the power imbalance of tenants and landlords is that there can be things done and issues created and then retaliating. The power imbalance means that the landlord obviously has all the power, whereas the tenant has less power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EWe think this could be OK, but we just want to get assurance from the Minister that he feels this is tight enough. I note that in section 54(3) the tenant is able to make an application within 28 working days after receiving the termination notice, and the tenant may at the same time apply for an order declaring the notice to be of no effect. And then, of course, it\u2019s around what the Tenancy Tribunal then engages and does. I mean, it saddens me that we even have to have the conversation about what landlords may choose to do, but I think this part actually is potentially around the protection of the tenant. Does the Minister believe that he has got this right; that it\u2019s tight enough and that it has good checks and balances to ensure that the tenant is protected when it comes to\u2014I can\u2019t even say the word!\u2014retaliatory provisions and just meanness from the landlord?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7fd236f2a434bbeb544b397c186db51\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7fd236f2a434bbeb544b397c186db51\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Associate Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, again, for the opportunity to have a k\u014Drero on this matter in relation to the questions that were just asked regarding the retaliatory provisions. We do believe that there is a strengthening of the notice provisions in the Residential Tenancies Act, giving tenants a high level of assurance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EIn relation to the notice periods and the comments made around the notice periods for vacant position, there already exists one of those and it\u2019s called periodic tenancies. Of course, with fixed-term tenancies, that\u2019s slightly different because tenants continue to stay on, but for periodic tenancies, that notice period in the proposed legislation reduces from 63 to 42, and we believe that\u2019s a better balance and a sensible change. In addition, where family members move in, whilst there was an implication, from the comments, around landlords potentially lying, there\u2019s also a requirement that family or wh\u0101nau members that move into a home stay for at least 90 days. Of course, if not, then there\u2019s potential to give rise to a Tenancy Tribunal matter. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5a170fa4c03460e9852fd3b2e380500\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5a170fa4c03460e9852fd3b2e380500\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to take a call from Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March, because you referred to some questions you had around clause 24, if they are different from the questions that Glen Bennett just asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u002283bc4827a7204735afaa23088b292460\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283bc4827a7204735afaa23088b292460\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Well, there are several amendments we haven\u2019t had a chance to speak to either, so\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2c5690515334018bef77c1a6dc50df8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m suggesting that it be specific to the point. It\u2019s not always on every bill that every amendment gets spoken to, because there\u2019s been lots of chances to do that, so stick to the clauses. If you want to bring an amendment into those clauses, then that\u2019s fine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283381261d7894ccc9312a4039ec6e044\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: I appreciate that. And if you check the Hansard, beyond the stuff that one of the previous Chairs, Greg O\u2019Connor, talked about on the broader economic settings, two of my other calls have been incredibly granular about the clauses that I am referring to. I hope some grace is given in relationship to that, and that I am doing my best to pinpoint where I am talking about in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI want to talk about one of our amendments around the limit of the number of times no-cause evictions can be used for. This particularly relates to, actually, several provisions, including in clause\u00A024 around the retaliatory way in which these no-cause evictions are used. The reason for that is that as we identified in the debate around clause 22, some of the provisions actually allow for some retaliatory methods to be used by nature of just a landlord lying\u2014for example, around a family member\u2014and then that actually can leave very little room for the provisions in clause 24 to take effect, particularly around paragraphs (a) and (b) in clause 24(2).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThe amendment that we\u2019ve got would restrict the number of times a landlord can use no-cause evictions to three times a year. This is because in the analysis that we\u2019ve heard from tenants, we\u2019ve heard from tenants that no-cause evictions had, in the past, been used multiple times a year for people. I wonder whether the Associate Minister of Housing had\u2014particularly when it comes to the provisions in clause 24 to protect tenants against retaliatory measures, but how those interact with how, actually, other parts of the bill\u2014given any thought to the number of times no-cause evictions should be used in a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EActually, if we go back to some of the provisions I was speaking to in clause 22, there\u2019s so many days in a year that you could\u2014you know, if you divide it by 90. Because some of those provisions allow for 42 days to be given, you could have a landlord literally using no-cause evictions several times a year. Our amendment would actually put some protections in place to ensure that no-cause evictions can only be used by a landlord three times a year, which we none the less don\u2019t believe will mitigate all of the harm but it will go some way towards addressing what I believe is a lack of answers and even addressing from the Minister from the questions I asked in relationship to clause 22.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWhen he refers to the retaliatory issues, that actually leaves the gap, because I feel like he\u2019s going back to clause 24 when I asked questions about clause 22. Actually, those are quite different issues. I wanted to understand\u2014and I do still have more questions on clause 24, but I did want to make sure that we brought our amendment. There are many other provisions in the bill, in Part 2, and several clauses that are yet to be addressed, but I did want to check whether the Minister had considered whether there\u2019s a balance to be struck here in the intent he\u2019s trying to achieve and then the number of no-cause evictions that can be executed by a landlord.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd744824326347068ff525d1c3bfc848\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd744824326347068ff525d1c3bfc848\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m really pleased to take a call on this. I realise that there are some areas that may have been traversed, but I need to, particularly with this Minister in the chair, the Hon Tama Potaka, traverse some of the impacts for M\u0101ori on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EObviously, I\u2019m talking about clause 22(1), replacing section 51(1), where a landlord may terminate a periodic tenancy in any case or at least 90 days. As I said, I do appreciate that there\u2019s been some areas that have been traversed in terms of M\u0101ori, but we have to ask today, particularly given the climate at the moment, what this Minister in particular has done in his relationships\u2014what has he done in terms of his relationships with M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI appreciate he\u2019s got quite a wide brief in terms of what he\u2019s doing in terms of M\u0101ori development and M\u0101ori-Crown relations\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c170d398fac480286d2a8a64c3f37df\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I think the questions to the Minister should relate to the clauses in the piece of legislation. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb965580c4e54f388a1cd1245c7714d7\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I was coming to it. I just talked about the clause, and I\u2019m talking about Part 3, clause 3.2. What steps have been taken to determine whether the policy to be given affect by this bill is consistent with New Zealand\u2019s international obligations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe Ministry of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) considered this bill and whether it is consistent with the Government\u2019s Treaty of Waitangi obligations. HUD has considered the impact of the proposed bill through a Treaty of Waitangi lens, including discussions with HUD\u2019s legal team and M\u0101ori policy team. HUD also consulted with Te Puni K\u014Dkiri during the policy development. There\u2019s a bit of an overlap here with this Minister, who has M\u0101ori development and iwi relations and, of course, this particular kaupapa. We always say that M\u0101ori development goes across all different portfolios. And the good thing about this is we have a Minister who has an associate housing responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI would like to know from the Minister what type of k\u014Drero has gone down with him and M\u0101ori, not just as mana whenua but with our different M\u0101ori providers around the country. Has he signalled and is he looking to work in coordination with some of those M\u0101ori providers\u2014which is incredibly important at the moment, as we have, as he well knows, the Wh\u0101nau Ora kaupapa now being put up by this Government and being tendered for by many organisations, not just M\u0101ori organisations. So, coming back to this 3.2\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222c3c311a89349e48f3a4077b8e372d5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Can you just refer us to the page? We\u2019re just having a task finding\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223abfb8df4cf846a09976eff8f36cae33\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Are you on the right bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022567fea1bea614b2d89484c9f0eaa3b39\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I think I\u2019m on the right bill, but I\u2019ll come to you. I\u2019m talking about page 12, clause 22(1), replacement section 51(1) \u201CA landlord may terminate a periodic tenancy in any case by giving at least 90 days\u2019 notice.\u201D And what I\u2019m talking about here\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ce5f84a6ebd416ab566ff51bd65353b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, right, OK. You were talking about 3.2 and we lost you. Right, OK, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d457f21cf46491e8b14634f825fdb0c\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right\u2014yes, yes. No problem to clarify. Anything else you want to clarify?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022014cd3a82227429a894cea90c3909c35\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: No, that\u2019s it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e787346d727459883808dc5cd9819e3\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m happy to clarify and continue talking about this kaupapa because the ramifications for M\u0101ori are huge. I can see the Minister thinking about this\u2014whether he\u2019s actually consulted with any M\u0101ori with regards to this kaupapa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ENow, we know he has a relationship with the Iwi Chairs Forum, but there is some k\u014Drero on the street that he has forgotten to speak with Maataa Waka and some of the key providers here\u2014[Interruption] No, no, this is important for the other side, because the M\u0101ori rate has dropped in terms of housing ownership, which this Minister is in charge of. In terms of rentals, M\u0101ori are transient\u2014they\u2019re moving from house to house. Now, this 90-day clause, as he well knows, threatens to put so many M\u0101ori out on the street. What is the plan around that? What are the Treaty ramifications? Should M\u0101ori be scared because this Government is proceeding with this Treaty principles legislation? What are the effects in terms of our different communities going forward?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ECan I ask him\u2014has this been part of any k\u014Drero with the Wh\u0101nau Ora kaupapa, for instance, which is a major kaupapa at the moment because the Government\u2014[Interruption] Everything is Wh\u0101nau Ora, but I\u2019m happy to explain this to members\u2014particularly to my good friend over there, Dana Kirkpatrick. Very happy to take another five minutes to explain the consequences of this decision in a Wh\u0101nau Ora sense. This kaupapa has been put on the floor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc8dc705a0e6499e958e6bd0d2bd2df4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc8dc705a0e6499e958e6bd0d2bd2df4\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fb40836a3d994236afb8dc6c26679012\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002281a1bf4250fe488693702e09355297ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281a1bf4250fe488693702e09355297ed\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Tamatha Paul\u2019s amendment to clause 22 set out on Amendment Paper 226 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223818749575f547b2b130459a270469df\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022723ce8f7963d4bedadd516fc02cf6a50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022723ce8f7963d4bedadd516fc02cf6a50\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Tamatha Paul\u2019s amendment to clause 22 set out on Amendment Paper 227 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002235a5172b51f640f4b83eaf81e34e3301\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00226814cd9842a24c0aa50e50eb0c0d65f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226814cd9842a24c0aa50e50eb0c0d65f4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Tamatha Paul\u2019s amendments to clause 22 set out on Amendment Paper 228 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022908403ec7a1a48979159f5e5ef7cd889\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00223d42a9d556354a4c8e1b342b1c888d2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d42a9d556354a4c8e1b342b1c888d2e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Tamatha Paul\u2019s amendments to clause 22 set out on Amendment Paper 229 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225e021580a6624ebaa60ce84d65fd3e34\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002286c3a86191fd45b8994029b3b5e43f1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286c3a86191fd45b8994029b3b5e43f1c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Tamatha Paul\u2019s amendments to clause 22 set out on Amendment Paper 230 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220e0df4deb1b349279873dee00f103dda\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022428d262de3ec4053a322ed7a7e87d9bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022428d262de3ec4053a322ed7a7e87d9bc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Tamatha Paul\u2019s amendment to clause 24 set out on Amendment Paper 231 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224a8b0bc0c5454a58889dd47a65d4697d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe47417af4294d428e8b2668f26040ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe47417af4294d428e8b2668f26040ed\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Tamatha Paul\u2019s amendment to clause 24 set out on Amendment Paper 232 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226aafe723ea5d4706a859fd9e7160daf4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc869446c677478894524fff0f517fb5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc869446c677478894524fff0f517fb5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Tamatha Paul\u2019s amendments to clause 27 set out on Amendment Paper 233 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e1628937e3b74fa3b3e483a5c4c8e0a1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227b0577f776a4421aa4f7b76f44d6fd90\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022169224174d4748cf8fe86d65e3fb5be8\u0022\u003EPart 3  Tenancy Tribunal and administrative matters\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00228add768d13d54cf48bdaf6fe50b6bcce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228add768d13d54cf48bdaf6fe50b6bcce\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to Part 3. This is the debate on clauses 30 to 39, \u201CTenancy Tribunal and administrative matters\u201D, and Schedules 1 and 2. The question is that Part 3 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022b66cb9b141894a9b9d8808f03a36ad8d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b66cb9b141894a9b9d8808f03a36ad8d\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. My question relates to clause 31(3). This touches on the jurisdiction of the tribunal. I note that there are two other parts to that which other members may wish to explore, but I\u2019m keen to understand the rationale for this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIt specifically states that the tribunal does not have jurisdiction to determine a dispute so far as it raises a question as to whether, in respect of a tenant who gives notice accompanied by qualifying evidence under section 56B\u2014now, this relates to family violence. I had hoped to be able to ask questions about that in the previous part, but I also note that there are quite detailed provisions in Schedule 2, so we\u2019ll get into it then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, look, I\u2019ve been very critical of the Government\u2019s approach in Part 2, and I was very disappointed with the Minister\u2019s answers, and said as much, but we had a very constructive conversation in Part 1, and I hope the Minister takes these questions in that vein. It is a very serious issue and I\u2019m taking it as such.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI would just like the Minister to explain why these disputes are outside the jurisdiction of the tribunal. I get that there are provisions outlined in this bill in other parts\u2014and I\u2019m not traversing that, just purely for context\u2014that outline the process by which a tenant is to provide qualifying evidence to this. My concern with this is what happens in a scenario where a tenant provides qualifying evidence and that is disputed by the landlord. That is a dispute, and what this is saying is that the tribunal does not have jurisdiction to determine that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThere may be a reasonable explanation to this, and if there is, that\u2019s all good, but if there isn\u2019t, I think that is an oversight, because what we\u2019re talking about here is the ability for people who have been a victim of family violence or their dependent has been a victim of family violence to have special provisions available to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWe fully support that; absolutely. In fact, we think that there were grounds for it to be stronger, but nevertheless, we support it, so we\u2019re not disputing that, but I\u2019m concerned that with those special provisions available to people in those horrific circumstances, if a landlord declines or dismisses the evidence that\u2019s provided, where does that leave them? The landlord could say, in that scenario, \u201CNo, you don\u2019t qualify.\u201D or \u201CI don\u2019t accept the evidence.\u201D or whatever. That becomes a dispute, and the tribunal is there to address that dispute. But, if it\u2019s not in the jurisdiction, where do they go?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, we mustn\u2019t forget the circumstances that bring this about. Like I say, there may be a reasonable explanation, and if there is, fine, but I would like the Minister to take this seriously\u2014it\u2019s a question in good faith\u2014and not just cover it in high level, but actually answer it for the benefit of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00225a045b436ea24bfc81b52f7045174fd1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a045b436ea24bfc81b52f7045174fd1\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. My questions also relate to clause 31, on page 15, but they\u2019re a bit different in nature. It would be helpful if the Minister could give the committee a little bit of context about these provisions here, in the context of the legislation that changes the jurisdiction of the disputes tribunal having been passed after the select committee was able to consider these changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThose two things interrelate because the programme of work to improve court timeliness that was begun by the Labour Government\u2014and really helpfully, I think, picked up by this justice Minister\u2014changes the way that lower tribunals intend to deal with lower-order disputes, and that more disputes will be handled by those tribunals. The intention for the piece of legislation about the disputes tribunal is that more small claims will be able to be heard there. In this piece of work, there are none of the same sorts of provisions to essentially allow more sorts of disputes to be heard by the Tenancy Tribunal. I want to know why that is and whether the intention is for some claims to be heard at the disputes tribunal level as it would have in the past\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022915623225c28494ab4c0be949c6ea01e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry to just interrupt the member. I don\u2019t want to have to ask you to say that again, but the Minister was taking advice, and I think they\u2019re important questions. We\u2019ll start your time again so that the Minister can actually\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229ba5745f113403a9f8a5dac81e687e9\u0022\u003EHon Tama Potaka\u003C/span\u003E: Apologies, apologies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227659b37d4f424a7ab4dc9ddbde7f864d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, it\u2019s not a problem, Minister. You need to take your advice. I was just concerned with the level of questioning that it wasn\u2019t being heard, so could the member start again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256fcfbfc4a5a4678838361db18bec34f\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair. And fair enough too. I\u2019ll ask them in a different way so as not to bore my colleagues listening along intently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EOne specific question is at page 16, clause 31(2), which creates a new section 7AA. This new 7AA, for instance, Minister, has a limit of $100,000 in instances like these, which is not a new limit. My question is around asking the Minister to compare these provisions with the provisions of the legislation which has recently passed in the House to change the financial jurisdiction of the disputes tribunal. Is it the intention that the Tenancy Tribunal would be able to deal with more sorts of low-level claims like this in a more timely way? I think that\u2019s probably yes. In which case, why isn\u2019t the $100,000 limit higher? That limit, effectively, means that the District Court\u2014the District Court is the court after the Tenancy Tribunal\u2014would have to consider a claim that was above the $100,000 limit. That seems to be going in the opposite direction of the other changes to the tribunals at this level, which have been made by Minister Goldsmith, which are intended to capture more of these lower-order disputes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThe next question is about the change in the disputes tribunal legislation which was intended to allow an order made by a referee in that jurisdiction to require a respondent to pay the cost of the filing fee of a successful applicant. That\u2019s a new change at the disputes tribunal level. Why didn\u2019t the Government consider that change, or changes like it, which essentially allow a referee more tools in the toolkit to award costs and different sorts of costs against a party who is found to be at fault and might, in the opinion of the referee, be using the tribunal vexatiously to pursue a claim against either of the other parties? Is it because, in the housing context, the Government deemed that not to be appropriate? Or was it simply because that piece of work that was happening at the disputes tribunal had not been considered when this piece of legislation was drafted? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister that because that is a useful change at the disputes tribunal level. It means that applicants are less likely\u2014well, they will consider carefully whether the costs that might be awarded against them in all sorts of circumstances\u2014those fees are usually pretty low. They can be between, I think, $59 to $249, but for a tenant, that might be a significant amount of money when looking at the sort of award that might be made against them. In a pet bond context, I think the average award that was awarded in the financial year to the end of June 23 was $400, so we\u2019re talking about a reasonably substantial fee there. Why would we not make a change here where, in the opinion of each individual referee and each individual case, there was an ability for costs to be placed on the party at fault or any of the other sorts of costs that you might anticipate in a housing context?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March pointed to a number of other costs which are associated with the tenancy dispute. That was in response to the previous Minister in the chair talking about the kinds of situations where you don\u2019t want to get into a tenancy dispute and you don\u2019t want to be in the tribunal in the first place. Though we all agree with that, there will be lots of disputes which come out of this which result in situations, like the ones that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March has spoken about, where people lose their wages, where people lose their time, and where people are not compensated for time off work. Those are all costs which are harder to quantify, but then there are a number of costs which are easy to quantify, like the filing fee, the cost of travel, things that you might in certain situations want to award against a vexatious litigant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7b9d02cd5d34f65b98c239ad301e825\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7b9d02cd5d34f65b98c239ad301e825\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. If I refer to clause 31(1) and then to subparagraph (i) and subparagraph (ii), I wanted to, I guess, just get a sense of the implications\u2014and we do have an amendment to address this\u2014of, I guess, a double-dipping when it comes to the pet bond and the general bond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think this is quite concerning, because it\u2019s like we have this whole narrative that the Government\u2019s created around the purpose, of how people are going to enable pet bonds to then allow pets to more easily cohabitate with tenants in their property, but the way that this is written, in my view, prevents the ring-fencing. It prevents the ring-fencing, which I think is really, really problematic, because, effectively, what it does is it allows landlords to dip into either bond, the general bond or the pet bond, to try and literally maximise profit when somebody\u2019s exiting a tenancy. I think this is quite problematic because it could end up resulting in landlords trying to find ways in which the amount of money that they want to claim back from the general bond is high enough that it exceeds it, but they know that they can tap into the pet bond to make up for it, and therefore the amount of money that landlords will try to recover will start becoming higher.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWe do have an amendment\u2014and I\u2019ll just bring up the numbers so that we can be granular in this regard. It\u2019s Amendment Paper 234 under, I believe, Tamatha Paul\u2019s name that seeks to address this. Basically, what our amendment would do is ring-fence it\u2014basically, not allow the general bond to be dipped into to cover, for example, incidents where a landlord deems that the pet bond exceeds what was put in, and vice versa. I think this is really important, because when we think about low-income workers, people on the benefit, etc., trying to access a tenancy, saving for a bond actually requires multiple weeks of savings for people who are often living week by week. For people on the benefit, accessing assistance for bonds often comes as a debt. We\u2019ve got to remember that, actually, this is not just money that many people will find it hard to access but they\u2019ll have to then eat away from their own weekly incomes to eventually cover.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EIf we have a situation where landlords are enabled to dip into either type of bond and find, basically, as many excuses as they can to maximise profit, I think they will. The evidence has shown us that, when landlords are given an inch, they will take a mile. Multiple reviews have shown us this. I am concerned that the way in which clause 31(1) and (2) are written undermine, actually, the intent of being able to ring-fence the pet bond and then actually have mechanisms in which we\u2019re just dealing with the issue of pets. If, in my view, landlords want to raise issues in relationship to the recovery of the general bond, that should stay within the limits of the general bond. We shouldn\u2019t be allowing landlords to dip into this otherwise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI\u2019m keen to understand what the rationale is to allow this, whether the Minister in the chair, Tama Potaka, has any views about Tamatha Paul\u2019s amendment to ensure that, actually, this can be protected, and whether the Minister had any analysis, in fact, around the implications for tenants of potentially being able to access less of their bond as they move out of the tenancy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u002246e53eaccc364d9f82b72402b2c69d2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246e53eaccc364d9f82b72402b2c69d2f\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Associate Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you for some time to respond to specific questions raised by various members opposite, in relation to Part 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EJust to note one of the comments by the member for Manurewa around awards through the tribunal process: if a party is successful, their filing fees can actually be awarded against the unsuccessful party. That\u2019s one pathway for an award that offsets things. The other item that was raised, around the $100,000 threshold, or current level for Residential Tenancies Act disputes, it has been in place for nearly 15 years. It actually was a bit ahead of its time\u2014or ahead of the disputes tribunal, anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThere was a comment made by the member opposite, member McAnulty, around the provision around family violence. Actually, it\u2019s quite tragic some of the levels of family violence that are out there, in tenants\u2019 arrangements and other arrangements, but it is not the role of the tribunal to determine whether or not family violence has actually occurred. That\u2019s probably more in the criminal space. The tenant only needs to provide the qualifying evidence that it has occurred, and whether or not it has is a matter for another body.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThe commentary about the Amendment Paper that member Ricardo has mentioned\u2014so the ability to use pet bond funds for other matters, in our view, approves efficiency by avoiding situations where the landlord has to issue money\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dcd180dfb074dfb8a5600b34b3ecb11\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Is that a fact or an opinion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298c0ed8d5c3248e5a9935fbd0eb54994\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and the member has voiced many of his own opinions today\u2014are owed through other avenues despite there being untouched funds available. A landlord would only be able to access those funds that are set aside on the basis of pet bonds for non-pet-related damage or costs with the agreement of the tenants or by a Tenancy Tribunal order. This provides, of course, a little bit of flexibility for the tenant as well but also encourages the expeditious payment of any costs owing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00224c5e7b5d48454b05ba3ccff9f5062801\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c5e7b5d48454b05ba3ccff9f5062801\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair\u2014a quick question before I move on to clause 35. The question that was put to the Minister by the Hon Kieran McAnulty about family violence: this is an important issue and we don\u2019t mean to ask trivial questions, but just to clarify what the intent was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWith the qualifying evidence that violence has occurred in a situation of a household, it may not be clear to the Tenancy Tribunal whether that meets the wording here that it is family violence. If violence between my boyfriend and I has occurred in the first three weeks of our relationship and living together, I can prove that to the Tenancy Tribunal but I cannot prove that it is family violence. I also can\u2019t prove, if there is violence going on in my household between two flatmates, that it is family violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re asking the Minister to clarify what sort of violence will mean that the Tenancy Tribunal automatically declines to hear a case and that there is no jurisdiction for the tribunal. There will certainly be cases about this. We are simply trying to draw out here what the intention is when Parliament sets down that family violence is one of the prohibited grounds. Should that be the meaning of family violence in another Act? Should that be up to the referee in each given case to determine?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ENow, clause 35: this amends the provision in the current Residential Tenancies Act about facsimiles. It\u2019s useful to update that. The problem here is that it\u2019s not an equivalent. What we are replacing here is any \u201Celectronic address\u201D. In the current Residential Tenancies Act, if a tenant is served with documents through their fax, then they will receive that\u2014you can only send a fax if the fax is plugged in and is at the number that it expects to be at. That\u2019s envisioning a situation where, in the household that you\u2019re trying to send a fax to, a printed-out copy of the legal documents will appear in that household. That\u2019s what was intended in the original Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019ve replaced it with here is any \u201Cdocument transmitted to an electronic address\u201D. What that means is that, if I was to send Minister Potaka a set of documents now via his Signal or via text message, that would suffice for the definition that\u2019s set out at clause 35. It\u2019s pretty unusual. Usually, service of documents in most courts is pretty clearly in a way that the person is deemed to receive it. For superior courts, we\u2019re talking there about legal service, which is a profession in itself and regulated as such, where the person in charge of service is in charge of also being able to give evidence to a court; that they did, in fact, give the documents to the person.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s probably not appropriate here, because we do recognise that in situations where pretty low amounts of funds are being contested and that we\u2019re in a situation where people have reached the dispute over many, many days, weeks, months of dispute, there might be real issues with service if we were to require that level of service, but we still need some sort of level here that we think is appropriate. Sending a text message doesn\u2019t seem to be that. It\u2019s certainly not equivalent to the provision which it was replacing, which is a fax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EMy question to the Minister is: how can we be sure that we\u2019re not setting the bar so low that people can honestly not reasonably be expected to have read the documents that they are meant to have?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7a1f290750946cc9e885f33fa1d3aed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7a1f290750946cc9e885f33fa1d3aed\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and I\u2019ve just come down to the Chamber to make a brief intervention on this really important piece of legislation. Someone\u2019s home is their castle; it is critical that we provide proper process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIn dealing with Part 3 of the bill here, to follow on from my colleague Arena Williams, clause 35 does address the issue of email address and facsimile number and moves us forward into the new world of electronic addresses. It assumes, of course\u2014and it\u2019s an issue for rural New Zealand; I know you will understand this, Madam Chair\u2014that everyone has access to electronic communication instantaneously, every day, and every minute of every day. Actually, the provisions here do work through the timing of the issuing of documents, or the notification, and it moves us into the electronic world, and I think we all accept that physical documents are no longer necessary, but it is important to know that at the other end there is access, and in rural areas in New Zealand, for a number of reasons, often that is erratic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe question I have of the Minister is: was this considered and was there some flexibility? In reading through, I see no flexibility. Clause 35(4), inserting new section 136(10), says, \u201CIn proving service of a document transmitted to an electronic address, it is sufficient to prove that the document was properly transmitted to that address.\u201D, and we know that often\u2014and I certainly do\u2014whether it\u2019s texts or emails, sometimes you think you\u2019ve sent it and for some reason it hasn\u2019t gone. Now, it\u2019s a rare occasion, but it does happen that the server might have gone down. More often than not, if there is a problem in rural areas, it is related to the capacity of the system or something that might have intervened in some way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIn asking questions around this clause 35, it is whether the Minister is prepared to have some flexibility in there to ensure that that wise adjustment\u2014you know, if it\u2019s taking on board some of the realities of the move into the electronic world\u2014also makes provision for the interruption of what is a well-intended serving of notice, and that is the transmission of it. Actually, I think there should be in here some confirmation obligation or some ability to confirm so that, actually, the person receiving it can confirm it, in a way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI know that there may be some questions, and, say, well, the person doesn\u2019t want to confirm that, but actually there is an ability to confirm the receiving of that and that should be written in here. This just says, \u201Cproperly transmitted\u201D, and proof of acceptance or opening of that document. That can be done\u2014anyone, now, can actually ask that of a provider. It\u2019s way beyond my technical knowledge, but you can tell whether someone has opened a document. Whether that should be included, or whether the Minister has asked or received advice on that would be something that I\u2019d like to know, and perhaps he could clarify for me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022 data-id=\u0022debf3657d3d64a6db522842cf471bf4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022debf3657d3d64a6db522842cf471bf4c\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m hoping to ask the Minister some questions around clause 33, around the decision on the papers bit. Now, I really want to ask: when does the Minister consider it may be appropriate for the tribunal to decide proceedings on the papers, beyond the limitations on new section 91AB(2)? I also wanted to ask the Minister whether he or his officials had statistics on whether there\u2019s differences in outcomes when a Tenancy Tribunal case goes to the papers or whether it actually goes to an actual trial.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s really important that we make sure that, in allowing the Tenancy Tribunal to hold decisions on papers rather than doing the full thing, we\u2019re not creating barriers for justice, and we\u2019re not exacerbating any existing inequities. It would be a shame, for example, if the Minister\u2019s officials had figures that showed that, for example, M\u0101ori and Pasifika were less likely to win cases on papers, and if we\u2019re moving to a system that does rely on decisions on papers, then that may contribute to exacerbating inequities. I\u2019m sure that none of us in the House would want to see that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI think that is a broader concern that we have that this does give the Tenancy Tribunal too much leniency in deciding whether proceeding on the papers is appropriate. Maybe there should be some sort of component on making sure that the tenants are OK with that, because there is a kind of power differential in this situation. In most cases\u2014not all cases but in many cases\u2014it\u2019s the tenants that will be the underdog in the situation. It\u2019s especially true in my\u2014well, not my electorate; I notice that the Hon Rachel Brooking is here, so I\u2019ll say in the electorate of Dunedin, which I\u2019m based in. I think that\u2019s especially true in the electorate that I\u2019m based in, of Dunedin, where a lot of the cases in the Tenancy Tribunal are from students who are renting for the first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI think that\u2019s a really tough experience for people renting for the first time, particularly for young people. I remember when I moved down to Dunedin when I was 16 years old. I was very young, wasn\u2019t old enough to actually legally drink, but I was old enough to be signed on to a lease for some reason. I think that, in the first flat I was actually in, there was a flatmate who set up a meth lab in the flat. I think that just goes to show the kind of situations that young people can get themselves into and the sort of inequities that might arise with tenants that deal with the situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EWe do have a suggestion that might address this power gap a little bit. Our amendment would require the tribunal to consider various factors in deciding if it\u2019s appropriate so that the tribunal can give appropriate weight to the complexity of the case and other factors. That amendment is\u2014do you know what it is off the top of your head?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225af0274210a34ebea6f9cf6802827604\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205e7afe538ef47a488fbc786485d6fe6\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s there. It\u2019s one of these many amendments that me and my colleagues have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cd57a7e17a144e0b822b94658d7f5d7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: It might be Amendment Paper 235, we think.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6dddcac06f54eb29a26b54f6930ca9f\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, great. Thank you for the assistance, Madam Chair. I would hope that the Minister would consider that. I am keen on the statistics that are requested on the decisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI just wanted to close my contribution by asking what the rationale is for the change. We know that the Tenancy Tribunal has been\u2014as well as the wider court system\u2014under considerable pressure over the past\u2014well, just over the past decade or so; I think there\u2019s been a lot of things that are. We know that there\u2019s probably going to be more cases going to the Tenancy Tribunal because of the changes that the Government is making. Is the motivation just to make sure that the cases can proceed faster through the Tenancy Tribunal? Is it because of resourcing reasons?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EWe really want to make sure that this is being done in the right way. Thank you for the opportunity, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u0022877056e0b29e46fd8063c62e216b81d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022877056e0b29e46fd8063c62e216b81d8\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Associate Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E A number of p\u0101tai have been asked, and very diligently and professionally, might I add, in relation to a wide gamut of issues in this part. Certainly, the view of the Government, in relation to the qualifying evidence in the family violence issue, is ultimately that the Tenancy Tribunal is not the right body to assess whether or not family violence has occurred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThe mention of the facsimile actually gave me some serious flashbacks to the postal rule in the Law 101 class 30 years ago and the main guy, John Muller, a well-known lawyer, teaching us about that. Certainly, I respect the observations as being very genuine, but it is up to the tenant to advise whether or not the fax machine is a method by which the tenant is happy to be contacted. There are other options, of course, open to that tenant, whether or not that be email or, of course, the well-known snail mail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThere was some mention from one of the members from Dunedin in relation to, I think, whether or not paper is being used as an appropriate method. I have confidence in the expertise of the tribunals and the Tenancy Tribunal, but if a tenant can\u2019t represent himself or herself adequately, this would, I expect, be considered by any tribunal. Parties can also share their views on the hearing format. Of course, the Tenancy Tribunal considering the matters on the papers can help expedite the Tenancy Tribunal decision and also have an implication for the rent payable. The tribunal has guidance available to them as to whether or not they consider hearing a case on papers or having an actual hearing in person. Certainly, the comments by the members are well appreciated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u00221484a2aebc714e1e8a3b12337192ea40\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221484a2aebc714e1e8a3b12337192ea40\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, for an opportunity to talk on this Part 3 debate of the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill. I just want to go to Schedule 2, which makes amendments to Regulation 9. This relates back\u00A0to what will be the new section 56B, which is \u201CWithdrawal from tenancy following family violence\u201D and talks about the notice being \u201Caccompanied by qualifying evidence\u201D. That\u2019s the key term here: \u201Cqualifying evidence\u201D. Then what happens, I think, is that the regulation then specifies what the types of qualifying evidence are. It\u2019s got an (a), (b), (c), and (d) there of qualifying evidence: a \u201Cfirst page of a protection order\u201D at paragraph (b), a \u201CPolice safety order\u201D at paragraph (c), a \u201Ccharging document\u201D at paragraph (d), or \u201Ca written statement\u201D at paragraph (a). That all looks, on the face of it, to be very sensible. I\u2019ve got no questions about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EMy only question on this is that at Regulation 9(2) there\u2019s the phrase \u201Call or any\u201D. It says, \u201CThe types of qualifying evidence \u2026 if notice is given \u2026 of the Act, all or any of the following:\u201D. It\u2019s that phrase \u201Call or any\u201D that I\u2019m interested in\u2014why it\u2019s needed to be \u201Call or any\u201D\u2014because that provides some subjectivity and some question whether all of those different paragraphs (a), (b), (c), and (d) are required, or any\u2014meaning just one. Wouldn\u2019t it be better just to be \u201Cany of the following\u201D or \u201Cone of the following\u201D or \u201Cthe relevant of the following\u201D\u2014or something to suggest that it\u2019s the relevant document? Without going through exactly the differences between them, presumably under whatever sort of violence was at issue under paragraphs (b), (c), or (d), there would always be the opportunity for a written statement at (a), so there\u2019s always going to be an option of having at least two of the following. Then does that mean that there will always need to be a written statement, and one of the others, or should it be interpreted that it would be the relevant paragraph (b), (c), or (d) depending on the circumstances?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EIf the Minister could offer some advice on that, I think that would be helpful for the Hansard at least. Also, if he would consider changing that \u201Call or any\u201D to be more specific, which could just be \u201Cany\u201D if you deleted \u201Call or\u201D; if it\u2019s only one of those that is required, then to say \u201Cany of the following\u201D. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u00223dc865e6737147778b311746789a1e43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223dc865e6737147778b311746789a1e43\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Turning my attention to clause 39, around section 91A and, well, the parts that changed in section 91A\u2014particularly inserting subsections (e) and (f)\u2014I\u2019m really interested in, well, two parts around this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI have two key sets of questioning. The first one is around the communication by email. I\u2019m really concerned about how this was written, because I think, particularly in subsection (f), where we\u2019re allowing for a landlord to basically take issues to the Tenancy Tribunal two years after a tenancy\u2019s been terminated\u2014to use the email address that the tenant had used to communicate with the landlord, or otherwise apply to the landlord, in writing within the two years before the application\u2014it assumes that people operate like, frankly, older generations, who tend to hold an email for decades, and that is not the case for young people, actually, and young tenants. Many young people actually don\u2019t tend to use the email address they had, perhaps, when they were 18 and carry that email forward into their, for example, 30s. I know that\u2019s the case for myself and many of my other millennial peers, as well as those people younger than me, because a lot of those emails that we create when we\u2019re 18 often, frankly, have quite embarrassing names, because we made them when we were young. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EOn a more practical level, I do think this actually poses a real question: how will the\u00A0tribunal be able to determine that, actually, that former tenant had received those communications? One thing is to rely on an older email, and the landlord will say, \u201CWell, that\u2019s the one email I had\u201D\u2014from, say, it could have been eight years after the tenancy had\u00A0terminated, but it may not be the email that the person uses. That is in the same way people move addresses, they change phone numbers, etc. I don\u2019t think former tenants should be under any obligation to notify their former landlords of changes to their email\u00A0address. I think this is an incredibly impractical way of putting in place these provisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThe other one, I think, goes more to the core of clause 39, which is: why is it that we need to give the ability for landlords to pursue issues with the Tenancy Tribunal more than two years after the tenancy had ended? What is the evidential basis that gave rise to this? Again, the Minister has talked a lot about how he wants facts rather than opinions\u2014da, da, da\u2014but, actually, I don\u2019t think we\u2019ve been given robust justification by the Minister so far as to what is the evidential basis that should allow landlords to pursue issues with the Tenancy Tribunal more than two years after the tenancy had ended. I say this because I think (a) we know that the Tenancy Tribunal already isn\u2019t the best way to address issues, but if we start giving landlords the ability to pursue cases in this way, it could (b) clog the system in a way that is deeply unhelpful. In a way, I think it prevents those former tenants from being able to have the evidence freshly available for them to defend themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThen, if I think again of some of our most-at-risk-of-homelessness populations: low-income people, disabled, people in rainbow communities\u2014if we\u2019re talking about people who\u2019ve been transient for several years, it\u2019ll be impossible for those communities to adequately engage with the tribunal process. I just don\u2019t think there has been robust justification to add subsection (f), and I don\u2019t think the way this is written takes into account the real-world implications, particularly for younger generations, around changes of email addresses over the course of one\u2019s life. The way that this is written basically makes it just so easy to assume\u2014both for the landlord but also for the Tenancy Tribunal\u2014that all that is required is to use a potentially really old email.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI want to test the Minister\u2019s understanding of how this will work in practice, how the Tenancy Tribunal will actually assess that the former tenant had actually received the communication, whether they\u2019ll be expecting a reply of some sort, and if they don\u2019t receive a reply, whether they\u2019ll just assume that that wasn\u2019t the correct email address. I\u2019m just worried that this clause 39 will just give way more opportunities for landlords to cause harm and to bring up grievances that are way, way older. I just really need an evidential basis to give myself and the broader public the guarantee that this has been thought of in a careful and constructive way, because the rest of the bill doesn\u2019t seem that way, and at least I want clause 39 to be adequately justified in Part 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u002244c885405004491ca102b24dca00327b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244c885405004491ca102b24dca00327b\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Associate Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Just in relation to the matter raised around \u201Call or any\u201D, as you\u2019d expect to interpret it, it does not need to be all. No concerns have been raised along the way in relation to this particular provision; no concerns have been raised by officials.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EIn relation to the email issue that member Men\u00E9ndez March has raised, certainly there\u2019s flexibility for tenants to provide multiple contact arrangements. I too have had the experience of having a series of emails where I\u2019ve completely forgotten the passwords and am unable to access those, especially that tama_potaka@yahoo.com\u2014gone, never to be forgotten. Certainly, providing a bit of flexibility to the relevant authorities and/or landlord around contact details is something that we would continue to encourage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022322364f9debe4c299bbfde4510e5088f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022322364f9debe4c299bbfde4510e5088f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the committee is suspended until after question time today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022413e3467872345c6b1b3b36d639ac3a0\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Rulings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f7e86b2a2c4e41cf93f4b6607f2c5625\u0022\u003EAdmissibility of Minister\u2019s Amendments\u2014Criteria\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022e858c29dde284f428de9b1c97bd6b5e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e858c29dde284f428de9b1c97bd6b5e5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yesterday, I said I would return to the House in response to a point of order by the Hon Kieran McAnulty on the basis of the ruling I made to the Minister\u2019s amendment to Schedule 2 of the Fast-track Approvals Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s been a lot of comment about how my decision on this matter differed from the Chairperson of the committee of the whole House. I would like to emphasise that the Chairperson was applying the rules and precedents available to her at that time. It\u2019s the Speaker\u2019s role to determine questions that arise about interpretation and application of the Standing Orders\u2014Standing Order 2. In this case, I have now set out three tests for future application when determining whether provisions are private legislation, and I have determined that the legislative effects of a provision should be seen in the broader context of the bill\u2019s proposed provisions. This does not mean that policy trumps the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EAs always, I was guided by rulings of Speakers in the past about the classification of legislation. As I said yesterday, there are very few Speakers\u2019 rulings on this issue\u2014only two that touch on it more explicitly than others, and I considered them, alongside chapter 34 of Parliamentary Practice in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThose Speakers\u2019 rulings are 109/2 by Speaker O\u2019Rorke in 1884, where the issue was the Government of the day providing a guarantee to a private corporation. It was deemed to be a Government bill. Speakers\u2019 ruling 132/4, reiterated by Speaker Hunt in 2003, Deputy Speaker Hartley in 2006, and Speaker Mallard in 2018. It talks about how \u201CGeneric amendments, even if of limited application because there are few such establishments, are permissible.\u201D\u2014in this case there were many establishments\u2014and make the bill a Government bill and the amendment permissible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIn addition, I looked at Speaker\u2019s ruling 109/6, Speaker Smith in 2009, and Speaker\u2019s ruling 110/1, Barnard in 1939. Speaker Smith\u2019s issue was a local bill enacted in the 1800s but specifically for a body\u2014Christ\u2019s College, Canterbury\u2014and their needs; very specific. It was introduced as a Government bill, I understand, but then deemed to be private. Speaker\u2019s ruling 110/1, Speaker Barnard in 1939\u2014he ruled that if a licensing body wanted to license certain activities outside of the general law that were permissible in the general law, then in fact that would be a private bill and not a Government bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo it was a combination of all of those things, in conjunction with Chapter 34 of Parliamentary Practice in New Zealand, that guided my thinking for this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EFrom my perspective, I have gone further than Speakers in the past, in outlining processes for making the decision, by describing in detail the three tests for whether legislation is to be considered in the nature of private legislation. I hope these will help guide future Speakers in their responsibilities in classifying legislation, as was my responsibility under Standing Order 257(2).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI do not say that past Speakers were incorrect in applying the tests to specific bills and amendments. They are considered; the tests are based on previous decisions. I found the past decisions very useful to consider when applying the tests to the particular matter. This was not like any other bill, other than the COVID-19 legislation, which was also a guide\u2014remembering that no one in this current bill actually gets any consents. That\u2019s a policy matter and wasn\u2019t part of the consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe three tests are: does the proposed provision affect a particular person or body in a private capacity? Does the proposed provision affect the person or body but not affect all others belonging to the same category or class? And does the proposed provision have a legislative effect that gives rise to a particular benefit or interest for the person or body?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EAs I have stated repeatedly, I think that the legislative effect was not sufficiently clear as to give rise to a particular benefit for the authorised person for a listed project, as distinct from referred projects permissible in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI reiterate that my decision was made subject to the three tests used by previous Speakers and set out now by me, in slightly more specific fashion and in a context that I think allowed the bill to progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220f53d4fea8704d999ce2358a65a08bbc\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b25d9536af5b4b269b1be363764cbac3\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00226f28d6b2a64f4ade8d7a713d9a96384d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f28d6b2a64f4ade8d7a713d9a96384d\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Next week, the House will consider the third reading of the Fast-track Approvals Bill as well as the first readings of the Resource Management (Consenting and Other System Changes) Amendment Bill, the Gene Technology Bill, the Local Government (Water Services) Bill, the Offshore Renewable Energy Bill, and Broadcasting (Repeal of Advertising Restrictions) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EOn Wednesday morning, there will be extended hours for members\u2019 business to make up for at least one members\u2019 day we have missed this year due to a range of factors outside the control of all members, and on Wednesday afternoon the plan at this stage is that the House will adjourn for the year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002228df5997d5ce4352a23aa2b895ee7e08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228df5997d5ce4352a23aa2b895ee7e08\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I thank the Leader of the House for that. Between now and then, given the number of relatively late\u2014shall we say\u2014amendments in the Minister\u2019s name to that piece of legislation, the fast-track legislation, will the Government recommit the bill if it\u2019s found that there are drafting errors in it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022313c77db336841f6919a88bf2eaa9bf9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022313c77db336841f6919a88bf2eaa9bf9\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I don\u2019t want to get ahead of finding those errors. At the moment, there are no errors, and so our provisional view is no. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d7fce5ffa8ef460cb7ebc5e9ec1ac323\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223c94d215323f47f7a28b381824fb14e7\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bed27a131b5f4ad1900e26fb990319a7\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7e9a92ba11145edbaf95c98d5397ae8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7e9a92ba11145edbaf95c98d5397ae8\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00224311bb5078ef41cbaac956cf891b1345\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224311bb5078ef41cbaac956cf891b1345\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: Yes, with the traditional caveats.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa9afd7ba374405e953090a30301330e\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Prime Minister agree that Nicola Willis was not up to the job, which is why he\u2019s had to give it to the person who first signed off on the original ferries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c530ca8f13d441397a59f9df2b303e1\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Those are, seriously, laughable questions. Of course, to answer the second question first: the Minister who originally signed off, he signed off\u00A0to a total purchase price of $400.1 million, which blew out to $3.2 billion on the way to $4 billion, according to the Treasurer, in both cases. Minister Willis made the most compelling and brilliant decision when she cancelled the contract.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022653debd1445c4888a65a6483c71932b6\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022028d444007df4aa5a0cc12129941edc3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, just wait till your own side settles down. And I\u2019d ask people to ask themselves just what their interjection adds to the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022334ac58038b348a7839d82f14ec74831\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Did David Seymour\u2019s public disclosure of indicative costings for the new ferries contradict the wishes of the Prime Minister, the finance Minister, and the Minister for Rail; if so, will he now be open with New Zealand taxpayers, given the cat is out of the bag thanks to Seymour\u2019s indiscretion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022049ec804a8f549689555e081d176b9d4\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Words matter in politics, and no more when you were acting as a Prime Minister, and Mr Seymour was very careful to point out to the media of this country that he used the word \u201Capproximate\u201D and how wide that approximation could be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d747e754cac24ebd9ffd72d9c71f4853\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Nicola Willis, who said last year that she wants to \u201Clook taxpayers in the eye and say this is a good deal; we\u2019re doing this right\u2019\u201D; if so, how does delivering inferior, smaller vessels at far greater cost at least three years later represent a good deal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237a02d97e7264201b83019739d98289a\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: If you start by turning back a deal that began at $401\u00A0million, blew out to $3.2 billion and is heading for $4 billion, and where the actual cost of the ferries would be then about 14 percent of the total plan that was announced as being a plan for ferries, you\u2019ll get the drift of things. That\u2019s why we are able to say to those people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022796e1e02dd72412682f58f50d18f233e\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Drift is right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275b1103e4117417c9ec742e0e805cf51\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: You are adrift!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fb8723180bf4bf58464f74ea8ac4f4e\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, to use the shipping expression, an old saying: if you leave port with no port to go to for that boat, no wind\u2019s a white wind. We know where we\u2019re going. We\u2019re going into Christmas and people will know that they can look forward to a bright new announcement in the new year whilst they\u2019re worried about that more than anything else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6dbeb8290b94604bdbe5460a0bb5b0b\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the CEO of Mainfreight that David Seymour\u2019s aspiration to privatise interisland ferries makes him \u201Ca bit off the planet\u201D; if so, what measures will he take to ensure the ACT Party can\u2019t act on their impulse to pawn off vital national infrastructure to their mates at bargain basement prices?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f834b41fb9f46eca4727f2dcd0501a9\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I\u2019m certain that when that member was getting ready for leadership at Celebrity Treasure Island, she would have learnt on the way through\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1e9930396af45be8c120b4237b4f9ce\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, come on!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d0559f913c8425a9e6521598652f4f2\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I know I\u2019m hearing a leadership bid now. But the fact is Mr Seymour was very careful about his words. And all of a sudden, now that the project is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275b8348825c6491ba0195cad2f28e5ff\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re talking about the man who did Dancing with the Stars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee73d245a8664bfbb3b64346107b47fd\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Beg your pardon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ef0293762504603ad1c287993ddef1e\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re talking about the man who did Dancing with the Stars. Keep going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd908b539eb3409d916971e8422b9516\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on\u2014hang on. Well, I thought that member came to ask a serious question, but the reality is surely they did not think that the public could accept $4 billion of expenditure, particularly when there was so much wasteful expenditure of the period 2020-23. So we\u2019ve got things back now where, by the end of March or before, we\u2019ll be able to announce what the New Zealand people want, which is the appropriate vessels for the appropriate passage across the Cook Strait or elsewhere and have it all ready in time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb9660abef8447a288292cd66eaa5fe6\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Elsewhere?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221254e948d80f4085bfc0e072ba8bbbd5\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and having also\u2014well, of course elsewhere. Have you ever thought\u2014I mean, this is a person who used to belong to a party called Labour, who knew what they were doing because they are understood workers. I bet they\u2019ve never talked to the maritime unions or anybody else, but we are\u2014all in space at the end of this week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc816266020f4116893639123e3783d6\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Is he confident that Winston Peters will be able to follow through with his assurance that \u201CThat\u2019s not the way. If I was in charge of it, I\u2019d have done it anyway.\u201D when looking back at Nicola Willis\u2019 inability to make any meaningful progress in securing new ferries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb79e4f5a9f24cc9bb6d3f31b4c6e571\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The reality is that the Minister of Finance was left with an awful prospect of something that we did not need and could not afford. And what happened downtown was they were asked to get two ferries and they decided, \u201CHere\u2019s a chance to add every other feel-good thing we want and make the taxpayer pay.\u201D And then, coming to Government was a group of rational, sane, and experienced people in politics who understand the very character and nature of business. And that\u2019s why some questions cannot be answered now and some will have to wait. But what I can promise is the turnaround and restoration of rail circa 2017 and 2020 is going to be very shortly back on track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fd769ac42bb41ffb9f879982ffb38e1\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s really important at times like this\u2014a point that I\u2019ve made previously\u2014that when a Minister is acting as Prime Minister, they make that clear. So just for the record, was that Chris Luxon complimenting the Labour Government between 2017 and 2020 for the work they did on rail?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da69cb097a3648cdb8c1e8ee2cb3ef8d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I doubt it, but the point you make is that whoever is here answering questions for the Prime Minister is the Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b7268a5f04844c5aa8b65f9f857eae6\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Why was he unable to commit to the ferries being rail-enabled and what does rail compatibility mean instead?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce60526f89af4ac491156b5d4d18ca89\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: What was being told to the media and the country yesterday was that all matters are on the table in terms of consideration. And we\u2019ve got to ensure that we speak to everybody who can possibly help here. We were the inheritors of a disaster. Can anyone seriously believe that $4 billion or worse was what the project should have been about and what was needed to ensure rail, which is all over this country\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022601e12f2b9664dcbb2931eefd29ebc23\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s compatible? What\u2019s enabled?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cb4e94e57cc4d2384c9d0a13d5063e4\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Beg your pardon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d63fd72f19de465da41449edb53025d7\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: We didn\u2019t agree to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022024d84102de2417c9fa1924d83b2f6a0\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you didn\u2019t agree to it. Oh, so, \u201CWe didn\u2019t agree to it.\u201D Well, that shows how impotent he was. He didn\u2019t agree. He\u2019s a frontbencher but they went ahead regardless. Now\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0bd1fd139d54b34b5ffc897772a104b\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: You were a senior Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8d2ac0aecea45aaa4fb7464e1af80d2\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Willie was a senior Minister. He was the head of the M\u0101ori wing of the Labour Party, and now he tells me they weren\u2019t consulting with him and they never asked him and never listened to him. Now, I\u2019m not surprised that\u2019s a fact\u2014I always suspected that. But back to my original point. The reality of it all is that constraining ourselves on the answers that are dependent on future discussions and future negotiations is a critical part of being a responsible Minister. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229eab6ce30ccd40c1a761a2d0d3118a09\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is perfectly reasonable for a Minister answering a question to respond to an interjection. And when that happens, then the place turns into something that is in the nature of a debate, but somewhat one-sided because only the Minister has the mike. I suggest that people wanting to make interjections think about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222448400d4a9446fc8eba729200c39928\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Will more of Nicola Willis\u2019 catastrophes be passed on to Winston Peters\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab335a29d5ff40f392c04ca278747c83\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m sorry. That\u2019s not a reasonable way to ask a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d11ce17bfdf421a936dc0fd950dfc32\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022580ce978fb0c487ab183782a4efa8ed6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: So try\u2014yeah, well, I\u2019m very pleased the member knew that. So please ask it again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff5fa03245814a4d9033602e7ef365f0\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Will more of Nicola Willis\u2019 responsibilities be passed on to Winston Peters to clean up; perhaps some of the responsibilities like the rising unemployment rate, record company liquidations, and an anaemic economy ravaged by austerity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b561a03d48b8483d8b08d87fd96bead2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I would point out that none of those things are direct responsibilities of the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b86fe116ff6458a9d4987da073fee2b\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: They could be, though.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200aabe1e55ac4816a762ffe56d76e9de\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, maybe under some other Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211593d3dee534214b24b6eacb10f35c7\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, could I just say that the three examples that the questioner used are all examples which were part of the inheritance the present Government received, and now we\u2019re being blamed for it. The reality is the Minister of Finance is doing a fine job at the moment. I want to make it very clear: she shows all the signs of doing a fine job in the future in the most difficult of circumstances. And the last thing I want to say is I don\u2019t want to have a duel of wits with a whole lot of unarmed opponents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228c6a3f439eaf4ef6bf448629f8a180c3\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022 data-id=\u0022466144db988644c0859d0e49641ef9b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022466144db988644c0859d0e49641ef9b9\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (National\u2014Tukituki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: When will the next Budget Policy Statement be released?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002267b9a434df6d463c8c8307c08412ec65\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267b9a434df6d463c8c8307c08412ec65\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I will release\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1e6147548854b7cb6071df03fc66cf4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, wait on\u2014a bit of reasonable behaviour would be a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cae2d670f054fc2af77340d394f5c93\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I will release the Budget Policy Statement this coming Tuesday, 17 December. The Budget Policy Statement is my document as Minister of Finance. It previews the next Budget and is a check-in on the Government\u2019s fiscal strategy. At the same time, Treasury will release its half-year update. This will contain updated economic and fiscal forecasts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efd3aceea1c241738fd08eb4c58f202f\u0022\u003ECatherine Wedd\u003C/span\u003E: Will these documents show any changes to the economic outlook?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224706234fabde422b9ae55da80077e4ad\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: There are always changes to the economic outlook. Forecasts are inherently uncertain and rely on assumptions that change. I have learnt that it doesn\u2019t pay to get too attached to a particular set of numbers in the forecasts. In recent updates, the economic outlook has been progressively revised downwards, independent of Government policy. That is because Treasury has been winding back some assumptions made when the previous Government was in office that, in hindsight, were far too optimistic about future economic growth. At some point, the series of downside revisions will end, and I look forward to that day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022031294249bb144858fe4e8af85fc240c\u0022\u003ECatherine Wedd\u003C/span\u003E: Will there be any changes to the fiscal outlook?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e22e0d0ac734aeaa3b9aae16cc1840a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, downward revisions to the economic outlook will flow through to the fiscal outlook. Forecasts of GDP, for example, affect tax forecasts. Taxes by far\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cd55dbb786d418d822c51d8ae5a1bae\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s called softening up the public for more bad news.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1485e4573c14825ae581b9f98605735\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m being interrupted by a member who sat around a Cabinet table that spent so much they fuelled inflation, left New Zealand with the burden of rising interest rates and a prolonged recession, debt that grew by more than $100 billion, and yet he sits there interjecting. Forecasts of GDP, for example, affect tax forecasts. Tax is by far the Government\u2019s largest source of revenue, and revenue is one half of the Government\u2019s operating balance. So changes in the economic outlook matter for fiscal variables and fiscal targets. Next week\u2019s changes to fiscal forecasts are almost entirely driven by changes to revenue and expense forecasts\u2014they are not driven by discretionary fiscal decisions. Relatively few fiscal decisions have been made since Budget 2024, outside those managed within existing allowances and contingencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adb4da113d6546479faabe8bc1110396\u0022\u003ECatherine Wedd\u003C/span\u003E: Will there be any changes to the Government\u2019s fiscal strategy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265b38617daaa41789c82114797f88722\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: The Fiscal Strategy Report released in May set out the Government\u2019s fiscal strategy. It also stated there would be two reviews, and these could result in minor changes to the strategy. One was of the multi-year capital allowance introduced by the previous Government\u2014another tool that was used to fuel gross amounts of spending. The other was of operating balance indicators used in setting the Government\u2019s short-term fiscal intentions. As noted in the Fiscal Strategy Report, having Crown entity deficits in the current operating balance before gains and losses measure risks undesirable fiscal policy responses. This is because some entities, like ACC, are set up to be self-funded and financially sustainable over the long run, even when running large deficits in particular years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a0eec0aa36834e048177195768d7256b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Rail\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022f24fdee122714930b002b36bdd8f916f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f24fdee122714930b002b36bdd8f916f\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Rail: Does he stand by his statement regarding the new Cook Strait ferries that \u201CIt will be, and can be, rail-enabled\u201D; if so, is he confident that he can deliver them for less than the $551\u00A0million that was under contract with Hyundai Mipo Dockyard?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00223f1784bf7fc7434dae674dd91d0f9b4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f1784bf7fc7434dae674dd91d0f9b4f\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister for Rail):\u003C/span\u003E I want to thank the member for that question because, with all the controversy going on about this issue, the facts, after all this time, are still not out there. The $551 million the member refers to relates solely to the cost of the two ferries contracted under the iReX project. It does not take into account the extra landside cost required to accommodate the ferries, which pushed the total cost of the project, according to Treasury, past $3 billion and potentially up to $4\u00A0billion. We are very confident that this Government will deliver a safe, reliable, and resilient service for much less than the previous Government signed New Zealand up to. But going back to the point, two ferries were ordered. When the whole thing was over in terms of their contracting ability, the ferries were barely 20 percent of the total project. Which part of that did those guys up there miss?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0e26f10be384bfe948d948d50b376db\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Mr Speaker, this is a primary question. The Minister, I accept, has addressed the second leg, but he has not referenced whether or not he stands by the specific statement that is on notice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022581a568f05fe4c77975e4d5e96e61d7d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, but if you look at the question, it\u2019s requiring a Minister to speculate, and that\u2019s not something a Minister will often want to do or can do, so I think the answer the Minister gave sets out some parameters. I think it\u2019s a reasonable answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217e9e98bea0a4d899ba65118b0a94e95\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ed0d8ec24b241a08dc0246bb41a13d5\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I apologise; point of order. With respect, he was referring to the part of the question that asked the Minister if he stood by his statement, and that\u2019s not requesting that the Minister speculate on anything. The Minister made the statement this morning. He should be able to respond to that pretty clearly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f519166540af45398435ce773698c974\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that was the first part of it, and that would be something the Minister can address, but the second part, \u201Cis he confident that he can deliver\u201D\u2014well, give me a crystal ball. Would the Minister like to respond to the first part about the rail-enabled\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dedee0975f00471faa20411eb9db6de1\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: My answer is it\u2019s hugely axiomatic. To get up and talk about the total project being $551 million is being wantonly\u2014hopefully, in this case, innocently\u2014misleading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273f59bf9691e432c90c4bb38249b73f1\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ffd1dbf91e6403dbc51ae57763ac8de\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just before we go into that, I think the issue is the first part of the question, \u201CDoes he stand by his statement regarding the new Cook Strait ferries that \u2018It will be, and can be, rail-enabled;\u2019 \u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c29a58f79d4945798d087a544c32ffa0\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the reality is that we have said that all options are now on the table. But it goes on to say, \u201Cis he confident that he can deliver them for less than $551 million?\u201D. Well, if the total project was $551 million all up\u2014landside ferries and all\u2014then there\u2019s a question to be asked. But it was never that; it was $4 billion when we got there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233b0e69be8d94b8d8528b2c323b28bdb\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Can he guarantee that he will announce the actual procurement of new ferries in March next year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b7d3cbbf98548b58f05a102c74baa0b\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The reality is we are working with all the speed we possibly can put behind this so that sometime by the end of March or before, we\u2019ll be telling the public with great transparency what we\u2019re going to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e1abe0f3e8140b481e340f1cf083956\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Can he guarantee that the new ferries will arrive in 2029, and how much more are KiwiRail having to spend to nurse the current Interislander fleet along until new ferries arrive?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a24c24a2a84a49458b71002153a777fa\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, they\u2019re not nursing anything to do with the current fleet. They are going to be required to do their job with the utmost professionalism and not have the kind of thing that happened recently when it ran aground in the Sounds. That\u2019s when the member should\u2019ve been asking those questions, right back then. What they\u2019re going to do is ensure that we can perhaps answer those questions well before, in terms of delivery, 2029 as a possibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223818fe62094d45c8a044b16aa4b646d2\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Prime Minister, Christopher Luxon, say today that the Government has a solution but did not mention the solution yesterday at the Government\u2019s announcement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fd2574c49d040e9bdf0511e00b37fe2\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Judiciousness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275535f8c1a3844fba6c2b89df8cbd7a8\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well put. Well, for a start, I didn\u2019t hear the Prime Minister say that, and I\u2019ll check it out with him because he may have meant that as part of the all-up considerations there is a solution in there, and that, really, is obvious as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226499aa1ffd064fd7bfe06819589835c3\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: So is the Prime Minister correct when he said today, \u201CBut, for right now, we\u2019ve got a good solution, and if we can improve on it, great, and if not, we move forward with that solution.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5fe6a1edec94857a4f9ce1a9f271419\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, again, I have to confess that I did not hear the Prime Minister say that, and until I do, I will not confirm what I should make of it, other than to say the Prime Minister\u2019s in the best possible space at this point in time, because he has got the main solution, a united Government that is setting out to correct a grievous fiscal wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f685bb3c769442349c28c769d2a65439\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Has Cabinet already confirmed a preferred replacement option for the Cook Strait ferries; if so, what is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b64ed7f1dd8404ea84e4d170cf32e50\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The answer to the question is no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbfd4a9ccca84d21b1d1a2da47261c6a\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Will the total potential impact on the viability of our rail network in the South Island be taken into account when making the decision to go with rail-enabled ferries versus rail-capable ferries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af61e8c315294d8c8800a50fdc0ed715\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022995282944d5b4059af825ebd16dfdf17\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022 data-id=\u00227d63b9187ec148489fa5c56c491b3d4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d63b9187ec148489fa5c56c491b3d4f\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD (National\u2014New Plymouth)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: What actions is the Government taking to make stalking an illegal and jailable offence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u002225a2cb676e0148fb93f2dc2ac1533932\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225a2cb676e0148fb93f2dc2ac1533932\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E The Government\u2019s introduced the Crimes Legislation (Stalking and Harassment) Amendment Bill, which will make stalking an illegal and jailable offence for up to five years. Stalking and harassment pose a threat of serious harm to victims and can be a precursor to more serious and violent crime. We want to ensure that the harm victims experience is recognised and prosecuted effectively, as the current settings do not adequately respond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200e4d52a4adb4d7fae48304060fce91e\u0022\u003EDavid MacLeod\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Crimes Legislation (Stalking and Harassment) Amendment Bill do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266affc2068b740f6b2a68cd726621385\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the amendment bill principally combines stalking and harassment into one offence whereby if a perpetrator engages in a pattern of specified acts to another person on three separate occasions within a 12-month period that is known or likely to cause fear and distress, they will be liable for convictions of up to five years\u2019 imprisonment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c52cbe1b8ee4c35afa3d7cdd714d174\u0022\u003EDavid MacLeod\u003C/span\u003E: What specified acts or behaviours are covered by the stalking bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279755f718e6244a780323c5d125bfeb2\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the new offence of stalking and harassment will capture acts that include a stalker watching and loitering around their victims, tracking or communicating via the use of technology, damaging or interfering with property, and other less tangible harms like undermining the reputation or relationships of victims. The current criminal system does not adequately respond to modern stalking methods, and this legislation will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b8ffecae6e34fddabd1aaea2fc19a22\u0022\u003EDavid MacLeod\u003C/span\u003E: What are the consequences of a stalking offence as proposed in the new stalking bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a22d8f1096840c98a062e5ec38d6375\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, those convicted of stalking and harassment will be liable for up to five years\u2019 imprisonment, as opposed to the current three years for harassment. Two new aggravating factors at sentencing will be introduced to strengthen consequences for stalkers in certain circumstances. We\u2019re also making changes to prevent a defendant charged with stalking from cross-examining an alleged victim. There\u2019s been a lot of talk about this for a number of years, and I\u2019m very pleased that tonight the House will be having the first reading of this important legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002225a424c3b29a49879f1786dc1ef64c5e\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014M\u0101ori Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9e38706bf364fecbb7b8b8447b1fbe0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9e38706bf364fecbb7b8b8447b1fbe0\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for M\u0101ori Development: What measures, if any, has the Government taken to ensure the financial sustainability of Whakaata M\u0101ori, and have these measures been adequate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u00222e0e967e2c3f4619be5e9288c2f0bd95\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e0e967e2c3f4619be5e9288c2f0bd95\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E Whakaata M\u0101ori has received nearly $48 million in Budget 2024. The Minister of Finance and I, as shareholding Ministers, have issued a letter of expectation to the Whakaata M\u0101ori board. The board chief executive and management of Whakaata M\u0101ori are responsible for its financial sustainability, and it\u2019s important to understand that the sustainability of any media organisation is dependent on its ability to meet audience needs and providing relevant content on platforms that can be accessed by anyone anywhere at any time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022145dfa09faf746faa4dbe4204dd27f5f\u0022\u003EH\u016Bhana Lyndon\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the Prime Minister that the Crown\u2019s relationship with M\u0101ori is \u201Cprobably worse\u201D than a year ago, and is the Whakaata M\u0101ori news bulletin ending tomorrow after 20 years going to improve or worsen that relationship?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e44abc411a54370814f5a7e156a0204\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that p\u0101tai. The selection or the choice of moving content online is one that is at the discretion of the Whakaata M\u0101ori board and/or management, and we\u2019ll leave that discretion with them. But I tautoko and have great confidence that the board and management will make those decisions very carefully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dda95686186b4e2eb824e0e13dca6e8c\u0022\u003EH\u016Bhana Lyndon\u003C/span\u003E: Why couldn\u2019t the Minister find a few million dollars for Whakaata M\u0101ori\u2019s budget, like the last Government did, or are the only broadcast Te Reo channel and te ao M\u0101ori evening news just the acceptable casualties of the Government\u2019s cost-cutting drive?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df40f35049544a2e87c0efaca6173a54\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: I won\u2019t be trifling today with the chicanery of financial conjecture. Funding for broadcasting is a challenge that Minister Metek\u014Dura\u2014Goldsmith\u2014and I share, and as I said earlier, media organisations need to meet audience needs in providing relevant content on platforms that can be accessed by anyone anywhere at any time, and my sincere hope is that there is more content generation in te reo M\u0101ori, ensuring across platforms, as we\u2019ve seen quite regularly, from people such as Te Aorere Pewhairangi and his magnificent effort at the Olympics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b057d5eee0742efa26c4bafb1712b49\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I don\u2019t make a habit of doing a point of order when parties are asking questions. However, it is the second time I have heard that Minister use the word \u201Cchicanery\u201D in this House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b5658204f4341dc81339dda51b4ec58\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Used the word\u2014sorry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edaa1ef67e7d4daca93b053df6225664\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Chicanery. The first time, I didn\u2019t know what it meant, so I looked it up. And I looked it up again just to make sure that I\u2019m clear, but it means \u201Cdeception\u201D. Now, surely accusing a member of deception is unparliamentary. There are clear rules around other versions of that word to suggest the same thing. I\u2019m not asking to make this a big deal, but if we\u2019re wanting to hold up the standards, some guidance as to whether that is an appropriate term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bb5548b931a45938d6142009d21b78a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There used to be a thing called the \u201CBlue Book\u201D of words that were unparliamentary. It went missing some time in the early 2000s. I think Speakers ever since have been reluctant to rule specific words out, although Speaker Mallard did rule out some combinations of words. I would just suggest to the Minister that perhaps he find another way to suggest it, but I think the term \u201Cchicanery\u201D does imply something far greater than just the intention of his commentary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6ad85ae245c449c897d12ff47c4b002\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Could I ask the Minister: was the questioner right when she said in her supplementary question that there was only one te reo M\u0101ori station?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b9d336f34aa4d099f2653bbcc727fd4\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, there has been Te Reo as one of the M\u0101ori television channels that has also moved online, or will move online shortly, at the choice and selection, discretion, of the Whakaata M\u0101ori board and management.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022064a2ad4de19403ea02ff73ec9ffa1d8\u0022\u003EH\u016Bhana Lyndon\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister accept the Wai 11 claim that the M\u0101ori language is an essential part of M\u0101ori culture and must be regarded as a taonga, a valued possession, and, if so, the loss of the broadcast Te Reo channel being of the Government\u2019s underfunding\u2014is it acceptable to the Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4a547c367684a6d95418bbc50c05e02\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: We continue to commit to the funding track that was provided by the previous Government and, in addition to that, we have also provided new money for te reo M\u0101ori revitalisation through the form of kapa haka.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022140d8c4b5b6645d2b9537b256914c21b\u0022\u003EH\u016Bhana Lyndon\u003C/span\u003E: Did he make any effort as the Minister for M\u0101ori Development to find funding for Whakaata M\u0101ori to avoid the savage funding cuts to M\u0101ori media, or was it all out of his hands?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f07ff90f68164209ab725416a4d2c156\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: I continue to work very diligently and professionally with my colleagues to ensure that we have prudent fiscal spending across all things Budget, but also to recognise the importance of te reo M\u0101ori as a taonga in our communities and also within the Maihi Karauna and Maihi M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aed769aee96c4c0a8722f59c0b27a3ea\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022 data-id=\u002298b45d16009f4e499dd4145efdf03b91\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298b45d16009f4e499dd4145efdf03b91\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Hauraki-Waikato)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Does he accept the findings of the New Zealand Police in their Understanding Policing Delivery report that M\u0101ori men are stopped, tasered, and prosecuted by the Police at disproportionately higher rates than any other group as a result of structural racism?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022 data-id=\u00220a5260f9d5f4408bbb695029c03c6804\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a5260f9d5f4408bbb695029c03c6804\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Associate Minister of Police)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Police: That was not the finding of the New Zealand Police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022489a02ddbad444b3b885327d4134baf4\u0022\u003EHana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that this same structural racism impacts how the police enforce the gang\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221305986836ba4944a0d626ecda73f36b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Given the Minister\u2019s answer, I want to know whether or not, when that question was put in, there was any evidence to back it up, rather than just make a claim which we are now about to find out is false?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225414ccec28604b3c98185e4b3b1b81ec\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I\u2019ll just\u2014[Clerk hands report to Speaker] Is this it? This was what was supplied?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022050936f2be724c77a3aa997016077944\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s the Understanding Policing Delivery (UPD) report. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264386e4a3dd141a09f44021d7a0ee26a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry? [Seeks advice from Clerk] The Rt Hon Winston Peters makes a good point and asks a fair question. The question has been allowed, but the answer has made it clear that that is not a Police document. Is that correct?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fddbcbece8a14bb1a59456f96ccaff6f\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: If I can clarify, it was not the finding of the New Zealand Police. It was an independent panel that made findings, not the New Zealand Police that made the findings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea3c99b5b4494eda9f5d795585fdb1da\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK. I now understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5117dd84a4c429dac80f417ae6d1cd7\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. So the report in question is the Understanding Policing Delivery report that was conducted by an independent panel\u2014however, with the consent of the Police, who opened up their processes and everything so that that panel could investigate it. So that point doesn\u2019t stand, because the Police were fully involved in the Understanding Policing Delivery report, and the Police Commissioner said that too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227927f517949d4c2992e829e503582b05\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I don\u2019t think that actually was the point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f181b51788d04f88b6b53610e8991b08\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f3df13e11704f5aa935afcd8d6e9c37\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We don\u2019t want to carry on with this too long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f2b6501ec4c475daa589044ad698b92\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No, but I just want it very, very clear. The question reads: \u201CDoes he accept the findings of the New Zealand Police [Force]\u201D. That\u2019s what that question is caught by\u2014no evidence to back it up and this question should be ruled out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d32a8c139594ee7a68ed2a26de1a1dd\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. There is a reliance when we come to the House that these questions have been qualified. There was nothing that came back to suggest that there was anything wrong with it. The report, again, to emphasise, is the Understanding Policing Delivery (UPD) report. That is the report that is at question here. If there was a problem with the question, that should have been brought to our attention before we came to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022242a5033703f40ae9aab20139928df37\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order. There\u2019s nothing really to be done here. The point is the question\u2019s been accepted, it\u2019s on notice, it\u2019s been asked. The Minister disagrees that that is the finding of the report\u2014that is an answer. That addresses the question. She says that is not what the report says. There\u2019s plenty of opportunity to investigate whether or not that\u2019s actually true, or various different things. The question should just proceed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022214327c706bb4394bdaade6e14ccafa9\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd9d0359eb96421da287591e7a47e308\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Last call on this one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9c299d3025d4b658dc2085ca1fd15bd\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m more than happy to answer the questions; I was just clarifying the position of the Police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022652cbc71438d495cbf1b3b10c4f6b544\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yep. And it\u2019s just been pointed out to me that while I do intervene if there is controversy about a question at the time of its lodgment, that was not the case today, and this report is on the Police website and has been there since March of this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285ac9c14a7c745649921f2ebf220d8f2\u0022\u003EHana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that this same structure impacts how the Police enforce the gang legislation, as we have seen recently in Wellington and Auckland, where rangatahi M\u0101ori have been profiled and arrested at gunpoint on suspicion of gang affiliations that were never proven?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223863d67323fa41c4b2e8dc4bf4d85ef9\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: What I will say is that the UPD report was commissioned under the previous Government by the former commissioner. As stated, it was an independent panel and the findings of the report are not the Police\u2019s. However, the authors of the report have said themselves that the report is not indicative of structural racism or bias in the Police. The research states that the findings show that the age of an offender, prior convictions, recent and long-term history of proceedings, and gang membership were significant factors that influence the likelihood of prosecution. We have a world-class police force, who do an outstanding job, and it is a disservice to them to have a narrative that suggests our police are anything but the consummate professionals they are\u2014the 14 percent of New Zealand police that are themselves M\u0101ori, the enormous initiatives that invest in M\u0101ori across this motu. We continue to provide the services. What is ignored in this narrative is the 60 percent of victims who are themselves M\u0101ori. What is ignored in this House is the fact that M\u0101ori are twice as likely to be the victims of crime, and that is the narrative that that member should be considering. Thank you. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223966c3ba67d34f129aee3773d83274f0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just wait for the House to settle itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209c6ec0142e44d7eb850394cd639e1e6\u0022\u003EHana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think that it is appropriate for armed police to barricade the road and intimidate and harass wh\u0101nau attending the tangi of a loved one, to enforce the gang patch ban?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c34bb4401ae450097bc174bd41a1c65\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: I think that is a very wrong and flawed reflection of the response of police at M\u0101ori tangi. They work tirelessly to engage directly with the wh\u0101nau, directly with the marae, directly with the kaum\u0101tua to ensure sensitivities are maintained. But what they will not ignore is the fact that the rest of the community need to be able to go about their business without the fear of intimidation, and they will continue to police in that manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002292f6567ebab541a18c2ceade5ba16d41\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Agriculture\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022 data-id=\u002234686e6699aa479bb73b8848dce19870\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234686e6699aa479bb73b8848dce19870\u0022\u003EDr HAMISH CAMPBELL (National\u2014Ilam)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Agriculture: What reports has he seen on export revenue forecasts for the primary sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf7d16793d514c78bed68d491d2a39b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf7d16793d514c78bed68d491d2a39b9\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E Today, along with Ministers Jones, Hoggard, Patterson, and Grigg, I released the Situation and Outlook for Primary Industries report, which shows that the hard work and innovation of our world-leading farmers, growers, and foresters is paying off. Today\u2019s report shows New Zealand\u2019s high quality, sustainable, and environmentally food and fibre exports are forecast to hit $56.9\u00A0billion by 30 June 2025 and climb to a record $58.3 billion the following year, demonstrating the farming and primary sector\u2019s significant contribution to the New Zealand economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022898b0a012b7b4cc7bb74481e9edfd161\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: What growth is driving this rebound in export revenue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200074444899f42f5ad86d62ef3d9f4cb\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Export growth in 2024-25 is expected to be driven by strong global demand, tight global supply for high quality, safe, and sustainable food and fibre products, and the hard work of our farmers. I\u2019m pleased to share with the House that dairy exports are forecast to grow 10 percent to $25.5 billion by mid-2025. Meat and wool revenues are expected to rise to $11.4 billion. Horticulture has had a fantastic year following last year\u2019s cyclones and surges to a projected record of $8 billion. Kiwifruit alone is set to exceed $3\u00A0billion for the first time. Foresty is expected to rebound by 4\u00A0percent to $6 billion, and seafood export revenue is forecast to increase to $2.2 billion in the year to 30 June 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e355b7fed734d44bfddb367f24963a1\u0022\u003EDr Hamish Campbell\u003C/span\u003E: What actions has the Government taken in the past 12 months to support the growth of primary exports?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6a386eae653494098c032d9235cdad4\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: The primary sector is the backbone of our economy, responsible for over 80 percent of our goods exports, and it will continue to play a key role in the Government\u2019s ambitious target to double exports by value over 10 years. We\u2019ve ended the war on farming and are focused on unlocking opportunity, including bringing the new free-trade agreement into force many months earlier than expected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccbd23b5c3fd46439f15ef801a3f584e\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. For the second time this week, this Minister has used a question from his own side to make a statement about the previous Government that is totally inaccurate. To accuse any Government of being on a war with any industry surely cannot be in order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e2d9f4b8fe84c50a61033565a110724\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is correct, and I didn\u2019t hear that. If that was the case, then I think a withdrawal and apology is appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7337945fcdb44f3b03e6471ac679150\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, I said we\u2019ve ended the war on farming; I didn\u2019t say who had conducted the war.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022688408f3f9e44fe4ba46b6eeda945859\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Every day there is a concern about questions from the Opposition that might have some sort of supposition in them that might lead to a conclusion\u2014and there\u2019s another word I\u2019m searching for but I can\u2019t quite get into my head. But, in any event, the mirrored conditions apply to answering questions as well. I think it would be appropriate to withdraw and apologise for the remark about being at war with farmers\u2014or ending the war with farmers. It implies there was a war and we all know what that means.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cc9b0c328e4444dafa414f725ca324b\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223aa0f3d916344ef2b34eaa7ade8b9209\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. With the greatest respect, all over the world in sound democracies, debates are often very, very heated, and they are sometimes very, very personal, but it\u2019s been part and parcel of the theatre of debate and the essentiality of getting to the truth of things. With the greatest respect, sir, I\u2019ve never seen so many people who can\u2019t take any criticism at all or any question on their past performance, and that\u2019s not the way this Parliament should be in future, it\u2019s not the way it should be now, and it never was the way it used to be in the past. If members can\u2019t take the heat of this place, then get out of the parliamentary kitchen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cc2ee46baa44e6eb371382b8de7c651\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you; that\u2019s an interesting point. Before I hear anything else, let me just say this. The question that is often being asked by the Opposition is: is it appropriate for the Government to use its own questions to attack the previous Government? Quite clearly, it\u2019s not. When it comes to answers, you will have found over time that I have ruled that if Ministers in their answers talk about situations they\u2019ve inherited, talk about situations they are changing from a previous Government, they are fine. It\u2019s the nature of debate and questions and answers that causes the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220f705bc86514dfb8825561cbcf0fc5e\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, this has become a theme from Mr McAnulty\u2014that he wishes that we should not discuss the context prior to the 2023 election in any way, shape, or form. There has become a verboten period of history\u2014the six years of the last Labour-led Government\u2014which, if described in this House in accurate terms, is somehow too much for Mr McAnulty, who becomes very sensitive and issues multiple points of order. That cannot be the basis of debate in this House. This is a robust place where we talk about facts, history, and reality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257e2f9f816be43859895d727b493997b\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: I just want to make the point, sir, that question time is partly about seeking answers from the Opposition, and it\u2019s always been a place with a bit of flamboyance and a bit of political theatre. I\u2019ve been around this place long enough to have sat through the last six years, in which members opposite who were then Minsters said over and over again things like, \u201CNine years of neglect. Nine years of this, nine years of that.\u201D, all of which we obviously disagreed with, but you let it go through to the keeper because it\u2019s a bit of political rhetoric, and that is part and parcel of question time. So I\u2019m just saying, quite clearly there has to be a bit of a balance. We don\u2019t want to make this place so sterile that it\u2019s just about facts back and forward and there\u2019s no rhetoric and no fun to the place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022393b9624e09b453dbf694dc1a56efb83\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK, I get the point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264e08edbc297472e81f8ab60fbaf2769\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fb8ad7a17ee4c4ebe00d756495b5f28\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just give me a moment. The first point I want to make is that it\u2019s not appropriate to make personal references in general debate, in answers to questions, or in points of order. While people might want to make an observation about the content of points of order, it\u2019s not appropriate to personalise that in the way that we\u2019ve just seen, and I don\u2019t want any more of that. I have ruled on this matter, but if you want to add to that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223aea82705eb043b2899a143f358c6604\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Speaker, it\u2019s important to note that there is a clear distinction between questions from the Opposition and questions by the Government. You made that point. Now we\u2019ve had two points of order which are questioning that and turning it into a broader debate. This is not about the Opposition not wanting a robust exchange in this House; it\u2019s about following the clear guidance that you have given everyone. I would like to think, in fairness, we only raise points of order when we deem it appropriate. If we wanted to make a political point, we\u2019d be doing it all day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022047cfe33f25f48a5973fea5a92e9d39a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And quite possibly you just have, but that\u2019s a reasonable position. I accept that, but I did not take those points of order as being in any way a reflection in this direction. I made the point that it can\u2019t be personalised and won\u2019t be taken in the future. We\u2019ll go back to the question that was asked, for a start, and then we\u2019ll politely answer it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263a9bbf043414e599576d40abf73db0e\u0022\u003EDr Hamish Campbell\u003C/span\u003E: What actions has the Government taken in the past 12 months to support the growth of primary exports?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255aab8e7b49a439bb03489ae9130bcb7\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the primary sector is the backbone of our economy, responsible for over 80 percent of our goods exports, and will continue to play a key role in achieving our ambitious target of doubling exports by value over 10 years. So far this year, we\u2019ve brought the EU free-trade agreement into force many months earlier than expected, saving horticulture $46 million in tariffs; completed the trade deals with the United Arab Emirates and the Gulf Cooperation Council, meaning, from day one over 10 years, 99 percent of exports entering tariff-free; and eliminated $733 million in non-tariff barriers. As a farmer in the South Island said to me last week, it feels like when a war is over.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b31d6bc31a424570a0a85a0d25f535b2\u0022\u003EDr Hamish Campbell\u003C/span\u003E: What has contributed to this result?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9a539708e0d45cabc4a3e001ff8ec18\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, today\u2019s positive outlook is a direct result of the 360,000 hard-working men and women who get up every day and go to work in New Zealand\u2019s food and fibre sectors. Our rural workforce leads the world in innovation and adaptability, out-competing larger economies and international players. Our farmers, growers, fishers, and foresters are the best in the world, and on behalf of every member of this House, may I thank them for their hard work and their commitment this year and wish them a merry Christmas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b8dcb0993d54468816401f689b342eb\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: To the Minister, how does\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd2c47a235d94f9fa19181cbdd5c63f7\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014point of order. Just before we went into the previous point of order exchange, I do remember hearing the Minister actually withdraw and apologise for his comments\u2014comments that he literally repeated in subsequent answers to supplementary questions. I do want to bring to your attention the point of withdrawing and apologising for something you\u2019re just going to basically repeat immediately after.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222da83f8cc3bd469691ce83a51db3683d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I have to inform the member that a past member in this House made it very clear, in both document form and contribution in the House, that words matter. The way in which the words were used by the Hon McClay may have referred to the comment made earlier, but were in an entirely different context. That is the difficulty for the Chair in these matters. Look, the member should read the Hansard and he\u2019ll understand what I said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2b6a8580790416a82dfa3d2792c8076\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: In relation to export revenue forecasts, how have matters improved since significant natural areas have been taken away, unworkable water regulations, other impediments imposed by the last regime on the viability of farming\u2014how has the stripping away of those impediments improved revenue forecasts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec9aabbd9bc64f84a68b11899badff4c\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, farmers tell me they no longer have to spend up to 30\u00A0percent of their time in the office filling out paperwork. They can innovate; they can work hard; they can continue to care about their environmental obligations; and they can produce the world\u2019s highest-quality, safest food, fisheries, and forestry product to sell to the world. Consumers around the world are willing to pay New Zealand farmers more for what they produce. That\u2019s why they have a coalition Government that backs them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274d4348f80bd41ca9e2f98ed72ee9c90\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: In relation to revenue forecasts and the $600 million of earnings associated with aquaculture, how does the extension of all resource management permits for marine farming until 2050 improve the viability of the aquaculture sector, as opposed to being embroiled in red tape, as was the case in the last regime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfb9db5b922941e8aabf10b3598518c6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That question was all good\u2014it would have had a great answer\u2014until the last part, which I can\u2019t sit here and know about red tape. All I can assume is that it is a dig at some other party\u2014and in the context of today, not helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fbf3fb7dce6433fa23c85ee2da8c913\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I can answer without the last bit\u2014I didn\u2019t hear it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e72fcd66fc94568bdd7b25422a3fbd4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister should answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d06476182839469c835d066865f1631f\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much. Well, I know Minister Jones is a champion of many things rural, and particularly the fisheries sector. Can I say that certainty is now being given to aquaculture in New Zealand so they can get on and do what we need them to do, which is produce high quality products, continue to care about the environment, and produce high quality food that we can send around the world for consumers, as well as Mr Jones, to enjoy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a159cb367c99492cad0f092907bfa1bd\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The reference in a robust chamber of debate during question time to the existence of red rape is beyond cavil; it\u2019s beyond dispute. It\u2019s not unreasonable to state that this Government has passed laws liberating the rules and regulations pertaining to a key sector. The fact that we\u2019re liberalising is evidence that there was red tape\u2014it\u2019s a fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d549912d8384ecdb8dbd7a3e46b0da6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d0b3c7d505044f53a53528dc70c5c557\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Children\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u00222b0bf7adae754b279d97466af634e164\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b0bf7adae754b279d97466af634e164\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Children: To what extent does she accept responsibility for the outcomes of Oranga Tamariki\u2019s actions in relation to community provider funding cuts and military-style academies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022 data-id=\u0022170f8df475aa42a99b354fe1e297d55c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022170f8df475aa42a99b354fe1e297d55c\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E I refer the member to the Cabinet Manual. I am accountable to this House for ensuring that Oranga Tamariki carries out its functions properly and efficiently. In terms of the actions of individual public servants, this may be a matter for the chief executive, or in the case of the chief executive, the Public Service Commissioner. To be clear, there have not been funding cuts overall. Oranga Tamariki received more money in Budget 2024 than it returned. Some provider contracts have expired and not been renewed. Some other contracts have been reduced and others have been increased. Oranga Tamariki allocated over $500 million in contracted funding last year, and I\u2019m advised they will do so again this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022378891a5ecec4e4d8c90f832d349eb24\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Is she responsible for making sure that Oranga Tamariki meets her expectation \u201Cthat there will be no gaps in service provision\u201D for children in care or who have come to the attention of Oranga Tamariki?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022002ea91b19bf49dab7e2dce5cc7ab475\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: My expectations are that we are focusing where there are gaps and trying to make sure that we plug those gaps, which was the whole point of relooking at how we contract so that we do it better, not like it used to be done where we actually accepted the fact that money was sitting in bank accounts and not being spent on our kids. Contracts were underutilised, contracts were not being delivered properly, and we\u2019re making sure that that is better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aab86d12e67d4e828ad3b72fbb575534\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Will she take responsibility for the thousands of highly vulnerable children and their families, 70 percent of whom are known to Oranga Tamariki, who will in just a few weeks lose Stand T\u016B M\u0101ia\u2019s specialised trauma treatment and intensive wraparound family support and alternative to statutory care because Oranga Tamariki has suddenly cut their funding mid-contract due to her budget decisions, and, if not, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271ffba94e46b4aa8ae2ff23076e86a39\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Whilst I disagree with the assertions that have been made in that question, I understand this matter is currently before the courts, so I\u2019m not going to comment on that specific contract.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2942984c6424be7a3d131aa04c4cdaa\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that she received a letter from Stand T\u016B M\u0101ia\u2019s chief executive, Fiona Inkpen, that told her that Stand T\u016B M\u0101ia acts as a fence at the top of the cliff, and that \u201CThe impact of removing the fence will be that these children and families are failed once again, trust will die, and I do not say this lightly, but potentially so will some of them.\u201D, and, if so, why is she not taking control of the situation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241ff81abae7b476091e49048030c29bc\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I have said in the previous answer that this matter is before the courts, so I\u2019m not going to comment on that specific contract. Yes, I did receive a letter, but the reality is that what we were doing was not working. There needed to be changes within Oranga Tamariki to reset their focus to make sure that we are getting the best results for our young people. This will mean sometimes contracts won\u2019t stay the same and this will mean that it will upset some contractors. But does it mean it\u2019s not the right thing to do? No, it doesn\u2019t. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b144405d1ae246179e5807a950b00e78\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Does she take responsibility for the situation described by a front-line social worker who says, \u201CPeople are becoming more disheartened and looking more exhausted as we try to do more with less under the cuts. Our sector is at risk of major burnout. I have never in the 18 years of being a social worker seen things this bad. I have become completely disillusioned and disheartened with what this Government is not only doing but getting away with.\u201D; if not, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6d81deb068d4876a9ff2c6506d587ce\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t know who that comment came from and I can\u2019t speak to how they\u2019re feeling, but what I would say is we have been given something that was incredibly shambolic to try and fix. This has been a problem for many, many years within Oranga Tamariki. It couldn\u2019t continue the way it was. Report after report after report was telling us we were not meeting the national care standards for our young people. I am determined to make sure that all young people in the care of Oranga Tamariki are as safe as possible and I\u2019m going to continue to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dfa1946cab34d0b94b441ef1b6be177\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Is there anything new, to her knowledge, since I last asked in the House, regarding how many military-style academy pilot participants in total have allegedly reoffended, including offending not involving the police, or breached the conditions of their in-community transition plan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ad7754f564049e38c3fc5a26f98ad7a\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: No. But what I would say is it is incredibly disappointing that the Opposition is so eager to exploit these young people and the work that they\u2019re trying to do to better themselves. They conveniently forget that these are young people that have volunteered to be part of a programme to try and turn their lives around. Singling out these nine young men and making a soap opera out of their lives for political gain is disgusting. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba43702b29ba429b8c51bcb60d1ffb0c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll all just calm down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228b7b9f72ac0a41bfbc05d2d0d66d069b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022 data-id=\u0022fda5cb86057c43cc8cd50e9c06e47546\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fda5cb86057c43cc8cd50e9c06e47546\u0022\u003ETANYA UNKOVICH (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: What update can he provide on the coalition Government\u2019s progress?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea5b2fbd923c405ebfe933fb98aa2c8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea5b2fbd923c405ebfe933fb98aa2c8b\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: Speaking on behalf of the Prime Minister, yesterday, I was pleased to announce the Rt Hon Winston Peters as the new Minister for Rail, someone of great experience, knowledge, and an all-round humble and good guy to work with. He said he would take on the role and told me, in the words of the Little River Band, \u201CHang on, help is on its way\u201D. This new ministerial role shows how important rail is in our country and how seriously we take its future. However, rail is just one example of the Government\u2019s focus on infrastructure and building our economy all around this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fce6ab332c1403396058366e1f77e8a\u0022\u003ETanya Unkovich\u003C/span\u003E: What update can he provide on the Government\u2019s commitment to restoring law and order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022671d2b8fc3404b8f8a6493f6b7f9944a\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is delivering on its promise to empower our police and courts and not our criminals. We\u2019re on the side of the victims. We focus on victims, not offenders. We focus on community safety, not cultural reports; on personal responsibility, not colonisation or victimhood. Ministers Mitchell and Goldsmith are doing a great job at restoring law and order, and recent data showed there are fewer victims of violent crimes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bff4b1ef18b242deb09c5137f861871f\u0022\u003ETanya Unkovich\u003C/span\u003E: What update can he provide on the Government\u2019s focus on Pharmac funding?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223970c1c06f5a4bbfa087468fd060bb22\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Again, Minister Seymour has led the work on Pharmac and medicines, a key feature in both coalition agreements. Not only have we produced Pharmac\u2019s largest ever budget, with a boost of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing up the $1.774 billion fiscal cliff which we inherited, but, more recently, we have improved access to medicines by requiring Medsafe to approve pharmaceuticals within 30 days of them being approved by at least two overseas regulatory agencies recognised by New Zealand. We are getting funding for Pharmac for the medicines that Kiwis desperately need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218e1fd548dab42f487cad54cdbdcf868\u0022\u003ETanya Unkovich\u003C/span\u003E: What update can he provide on the Government\u2019s coalition commitments in the education space?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272c303de3ccc48df8c7200812f1821e8\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as part of our coalition agreement, Minister Stanford has recently announced that the Relationships and Sexuality Education guidelines will be removed from schools by the end of term 1 next year. The Education Review Office report was critical of these guidelines, and these guidelines will be replaced with better, more suitable, and more appropriate material. Minister Stanford has also led the way\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b7de03a6fe04d4ca5f11c0f478d5c3c\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: What, from the Stone Age?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da276e854d9f456ab92fe7d4ead07afd\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in ensuring schools are focused on educational achievement and focused on the three Rs. For those people shouting out over there, who just got here five seconds ago, our kids are going to be educated again, not indoctrinated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a89dcc1aaa804873905433aed8c74612\u0022\u003ETanya Unkovich\u003C/span\u003E: What update can he provide on the Government\u2019s achievements in regional development, customs, and foreign affairs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a67f9df24c284a0db44e2c983057b0b4\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Regional development Minister Shane Jones has established a $1.2 billion Regional Infrastructure Fund to revitalise provincial New Zealand. Progress has been rapid. Within the Regional Infrastructure Fund, there has already been $167.7 million in approved funding. He\u2019s announced 15 regional summits and held 10. The remaining five are planned for early 2025. In completing these, the Minister has been up and down the country, or, in his words, \u201CI\u2019ve been everywhere, man.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fdb84da56ff47548ea17199aeda7bb3\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: In regard to the progress on restoring law and order, does he agree that it makes more sense for a Government to focus on reducing the number of victims of crime than it is on focusing on reducing the prison population, irrespective of what\u2019s going on in our communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2a4e10bff924a1b828a6f8089538390\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a superb question and it\u2019s possibly the first principle of sound criminology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002250c1520cfb474a66921039c54be0033d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Workplace Relations and Safety\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u00222136c34e7540454db582f20e4163a34e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222136c34e7540454db582f20e4163a34e\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: Does she stand by her statement that the Government is \u201Cdelivering for all workers\u201D; if so, how is reintroducing pay deductions for partial strikes delivering for workers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022 data-id=\u002252333ff34bb34adc93a861d516fb397b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002252333ff34bb34adc93a861d516fb397b\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD (Minister for Biosecurity)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: Yes, the Government is delivering for all workers by setting fair rules so that businesses and workers alike can thrive and realise their full potential. It was everyday members of the public, including workers, who suffered because the previous Government removed pay deductions for partial strikes. Because of partial strikes, workers have had to face delays to their medical care, they\u2019ve been left waiting on train platforms, they\u2019ve had to unexpectedly miss work and take care of their kids because teachers refused to teach certain year groups. The Government is reintroducing pay deductions for partial strikes because too often it is the public who suffer as a result. If a worker turns up to work but refuses to do a key part of their job, intentionally causing disruption to customers, employers should be able to deduct their pay. It is a sensible, proportionate change that should minimise potential disruption to public services. That is fairness; something that Labour used to believe in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d7762e74b5e42aa82f55ab8afc3abd7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the last part of that answer is not part of the spirit of question time. The other point I\u2019d make is that was a very, very long answer. I know that the Minister himself is generally much more concise and would perhaps want to protect his reputation by editing some of the answers in front of him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295b0a74f20e644618e079a6c6a5ef236\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement that an employee\u2019s right to strike \u201Cshould not continue without consequence\u201D, and, if so, is she comfortable with those consequences, including being paid less than the minimum wage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b631f179d6534e9faee0f12625f1593b\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: To the first part of the question, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221891e6fcd3fa4cbebfd19e8caa91f22c\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Is she comfortable that under her proposed bill, nurses, teachers, and other front-line workers could have their pay deducted for wearing a t-shirt?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022837b615e12014312b93757d1a1f59bbf\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: All these situations will depend on individual situations as to what is in the employment contract. Now, I know there was an example many years ago where St John workers were penalised for refusing to wear high-vis vests over these t-shirts. That was a health and safety issue. Often, people will be required to wear certain items, for their job for health and safety reasons. So it will be in their individual contract agreements, and that will set down what is required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9a6708982654e2d896edea09ad78f51\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister believe that workers should have their pay docked for not completing a task that is outside the scope of their core role?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022004245e8ebad4b5aab31c3f387b2f6b4\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: Again, this will be as part of what is in their employment agreement. What is in their employment agreement will stipulate what it is that their work requires. If they have an argument with what they\u2019re being required to do, then they are able to go to the Employment Relations Authority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224aa0e39e94554dea910d88ab43110543\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept that this bill penalises workers for exercising their freedom of speech?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022802badc1e7c64782882c2c90c6e7b302\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: No, I don\u2019t believe it does at all\u2014sorry, on behalf of the Minister, no, she does not. People are allowed to have free speech, but there are consequences. If you do not do your job, you do not get paid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220174267835d465baa3281d84418fee3\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Would a worker, under her bill, who turned up for work\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278f74a6454244659b35b8b3cc4f838d5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on, wait on\u2014wait. Your own guys talking away there\u2014unbelievable. It\u2019s like a choir.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea0eec3fd96d4ae2a7d6fedaa9369412\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Would a worker, under her bill, who turned up to work wearing a political pin be considered to be partially striking, and, if so, has she told David Seymour that these changes won\u2019t be retrospective?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ddbc0f72d71453f8a62e426369adeb8\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I can recall a situation where that did occur recently, and there were consequences for that action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290aeaa9b26ab41c18b94387e9731b5dd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I should just congratulate the member who just resumed his seat on his excellent memory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a799fb35de9f4936bc3358763c4529d0\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Commerce and Consumer Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022 data-id=\u0022bcb843f9c9a148a592362b286b775c68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bcb843f9c9a148a592362b286b775c68\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs: What steps has the Government recently taken to enhance competition and boost economic productivity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u002213b477fd53664b1bb24076673b86d7f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213b477fd53664b1bb24076673b86d7f2\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E It doesn\u2019t take an expert to know that competition is not working as well as it should be in New Zealand, and the effects are painful for Kiwis. Lack of competition means less choice, less innovation, and, usually, higher prices. That\u2019s why the Government is progressing an ambitious review of New Zealand\u2019s competition law to ensure we have sufficiently tough\u00A0settings to deter monopolies, duopolies, and cosy oligopolies from forming in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224777cf604d974a59b07e772e35775443\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: What are the key components of this competition review?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235c2ed5b420e42c7b22253c5f53dc5fd\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: The review comprises two main components: first, updating the competition settings in the Commerce Act\u2014these settings have not been reviewed for\u00A0over two decades and have allowed duopolies, like we see in the grocery sector, to occur\u2014and, second, we\u2019re reviewing the governance and effectiveness of the Commerce Commission to ensure it is a formidable, commercially savvy regulator.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229af60d33135f4f6ea6e79fcb4d81bc63\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: Why is a review of the competition settings in the Commerce Act necessary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2c579e44531437aaa02562f232d7998\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: I think we can all reflect on mergers and acquisitions that, in hindsight, should not have happened. The current law failed to prevent this. The review will consider our mergers regime to prevent excessive market consolidation from happening further. Another important component is the inability for market participants to collaborate in the genuine best interests of consumers. An example of this is the inability of the banks to collaborate to provide banking services to small provincial towns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272c72935cb4f44d59c4436f6e6257bd3\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: Why is a review of the Commerce Commission necessary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c59afcf15154499eb5543ab4e84ddf37\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: I want to acknowledge the work of the Commerce Commission. The work that they do is very important. That\u2019s why we need to make sure that there is sufficient commercial skills to shape its decision making and it is fit for purpose, given the regulatory role has expanded significantly over recent times. We\u2019ve appointed Dame Paula Rebstock to lead the review, alongside former Australian competition professor Allan Fels, and David Hunt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229b7ae0a6411241fa8a04ef7931aaf9ea\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Children\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9360171abcb44e3b8c565349c6d7e43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9360171abcb44e3b8c565349c6d7e43\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Children: What changes, if any, will she consider making to ensure that tamariki and rangatahi in Aotearoa are safe?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022 data-id=\u0022af07fb968e914b68b820d1a12e5d9901\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af07fb968e914b68b820d1a12e5d9901\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll do more than just consider; I\u2019ve actually done things\u2014that is why this Government is repealing section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act. To ensure the safety and wellbeing and best interests of young children, a new Child Protection Investigation Unit is being set up to ensure the safety and wellbeing of children in care, and I\u2019ve introduced public reporting on key performance indicators for the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki. And we are giving Oranga Tamariki the power to search people entering youth justice facilities to prevent the introduction of harmful contraband. What I won\u2019t consider doing, because I know it won\u2019t keep young people safe, is sharing this information online about young people in attempts for political gain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e1accd10bc647e19ec3ece4fbfa8710\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: Why does she think that some young people in the boot camp pilot have reoffended despite the highest levels of intervention and investment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe4b8c1d2a7742d88b7a2cbdfd8a3816\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I can\u2019t speak to individuals who have allegedly reoffended. But what I can say is young people who sit in a youth justice facility\u2014the research shows us 88 percent of young people re-offend within 12 months of release from a standard youth justice facility that doesn\u2019t have this extra intensive wraparound support. I\u2019m not willing to give up on those 88 percent, and I don\u2019t think the Opposition should too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3e82ff7e161473bbef44641574e1cce\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept that akin to the young serious offender declarations, labelling young people as \u201Cthe most serious offenders\u201D and similar language can be a self-fulfilling prophecy, and, if so, will she and her Cabinet colleagues reconsider the way that they talk about these young people publicly?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bbdc427792e4acea8f95b672db40bfc\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m actually not going to take a lecture about how we speak about these young people from that member. That member, over and over again, and the Opposition, has used this House to drag those young people through the mud every week. And so I\u2019m not going to take that, actually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277140616be77433994ab3b79f10bd22c\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. That was a question asked earnestly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234aa3358c522450b9298f5e08dedd158\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It may well have been, but the answer was equally earnestly delivered. Do you have another question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222a75d179ad04b4f8810fae4b499dfeb\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: How can we work together to make sure that Oranga Tamariki are the best that they can be and that the rights, protection, and safety of tamariki comes before everything else?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022831b9829be8d4a1685aca5a2c3d18050\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what I\u2019ve been doing for the past 12 months as Minister\u2014working with Oranga Tamariki to make sure that they are doing everything that they possibly can to pull up the standards that weren\u2019t to my expectation when I took over as Minister. And we\u2019re working very hard to get better every day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b84305ed23b4866b2a83cc3bb48380f\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: What can we in this House, across political parties, do to uphold and protect the mana of our mokopuna, working together?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222228fb4e34074052954d23749fe947ff\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: The Opposition could stop using these young people as a political tool, for starters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022085e6e9ffbab41ef91d62693df4cd295\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bbbdec89f404275ab5bbf2609799664\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you never did, did you, Minister? You\u2019ve never done it, have you, Karen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002261b2855c964c4cb08d8dc35d6280c274\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261b2855c964c4cb08d8dc35d6280c274\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Please\u2014over there. That concludes oral questions. We\u2019ll now leave silently if we have to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI declare the House in committee for further consideration of the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b1d88fd8d3014c338f358071e1372b1f\u0022\u003EResidential Tenancies Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d66a017dc2fc45b6b12879d31b8d9ca8\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000690\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022796ebc81496f43db8d3621493e177295\u0022\u003EPart 3  Tenancy Tribunal and administrative matters (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022088eb2c630aa4d1e96c063ce2979e599\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022088eb2c630aa4d1e96c063ce2979e599\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, when the committee suspended at 1\u00A0p.m., we were debating Part 3 of the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill. Part 3 is the debate on clauses 30 to 39, \u201CTenancy Tribunal and administrative matters\u201D, and Schedules 1 and 2. The question is, again, that Part 3 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3b08b9d5f5443aeb7138832a60091aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3b08b9d5f5443aeb7138832a60091aa\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Madam Chair, if you\u2019ll permit me, before I make this contribution, can I just clarify something? Are we able to debate Schedules 1 and 2 now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022386d4ec79606471c873fc94c5b985d32\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b48746bf4ed444cc9ca8ed299c08e584\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Excellent. Before I get on to the schedules\u2014because I don\u2019t believe that it\u2019s actually been touched on yet\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022628fb934b4944a2ca6ee16f7ea9b8ecb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the schedules have been touched on prior to\u2014your issue may not have been, but we have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef2bba804dae443bb455f2a301ef31a1\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, that\u2019s what I meant\u2014that\u2019s what I meant. The one thing that I did want clarity on\u2014and I\u2019m pleased, frankly, that the Minister of Housing is back in the chair, because I was hoping that the previous Minister in the chair would have treated this issue seriously. I think there could be serious issues arising from this if it\u2019s not addressed properly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019re talking about is clause 31(3): the tribunal does not have jurisdiction to determine a dispute in regards to issues of family violence. Now, for the Minister\u2019s benefit, I made the point that we do not dispute this; in fact, we support it. We think there are grounds for it to be potentially strengthened. My concern, which I haven\u2019t had a direct response about, is that if the tribunal is not going to rule on these disputes, what happens? The tenant in this situation\u2014a very serious situation\u2014is required to provide qualifying evidence. If the landlord disputes that, and therefore the tenant isn\u2019t able to take advantage of the special provisions available to them in this bill, what do they do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWhat we did hear from the Minister was that the Government doesn\u2019t believe that it\u2019s the tribunal\u2019s job to assess this matter, but in the absence of the tribunal, what avenues does the tenant have available to them? Given the situation, Minister, I think it\u2019s important that we simply don\u2019t leave them in the lurch. Now, it\u2019s fine if the Government\u2019s position is that another body will deal with these disputes. In the absence of that explanation, the only conclusion we\u2019ve got it that there isn\u2019t a body to deal with these sorts of disputes. Again, given the seriousness of this, and the circumstances under which someone or someone\u2019s dependant finds themselves when they\u2019re a victim of family violence, some reassurance is required here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, as I said in the last contribution, when I last asked this question, this could be a simple explanation. If it is, I think it\u2019s a shame that the previous Minister in the chair didn\u2019t just stand up and explain it. They didn\u2019t, and so I\u2019m hoping now, particularly with the change in Minister, that we\u2019ll get a serious answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00223d12f5cff2de45f8a58326654808eadf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d12f5cff2de45f8a58326654808eadf\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I am interested in clause 33, which inserts new section 91AB, and that gives the tribunal the power to make decisions on the papers. In terms of speed and efficiency, I\u2019m all for it, and it\u2019s obviously a discretion to decide a matter on the papers, but I\u2019m interested, really, for the Minister of Housing to put on the record the basis upon which that discretion should be exercised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI just want to explain why I think that\u2019s important. The fact of the matter is that landlords, by their endeavours, have shown that they\u2019ve got a bit of nous\u2014they\u2019re a bit savvy\u2014and, say, putting their case for damage or whatever on paper and in writing is not going to be a challenge in most cases. Tenants, on the other hand, are more likely to be less adept at expressing themselves in writing. I see recently men fell down the literacy scales in New Zealand, so maybe blokes are in an even worse position. But my point is this: will the tribunal officer, the referee, have regard to what they see, and, in particular, will they call an oral hearing when they see that there may be a problem of literacy or expression or capability? I think it would be really good for the Minister to just take a call and essentially outline what the parliamentary intent is around how that discretion should be exercised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIn particular, where there appears to be an imbalance of abilities, there should be a presumption in favour of an oral hearing. That may be something to note, as well, that this certainly gives that ability to decide on the papers, but is it a presumption that it\u2019s decided on the papers or is it a presumption that you do an in-person hearing? I do think that, in terms of the pretty fundamental natural-justice principle of a fair hearing, the presumption should be an oral hearing unless it can be clearly shown that everything you need to know is there on the papers and no one\u2019s under a disadvantage as a result of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019d really appreciate it if the Minister could set that out, because it\u2019s actually quite an important point, whether you default to an oral hearing or you default to an on-the-papers hearing. I won\u2019t take all my time, because I think I\u2019ve expressed the question pretty clearly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022cdd3a948870e422da4acdb0ce4d819cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cdd3a948870e422da4acdb0ce4d819cc\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, and thank you to the members for explaining what was apparently being discussed before the break when I wasn\u2019t here. Let me deal with Duncan Webb\u2019s question first. The change we\u2019re making is to allow Tenancy Tribunal issues to be dealt with on the papers, but there is the ability to do oral hearings\u2014I\u2019m advised that that is essentially standard practice for a range of tribunals which have that discretion, and, clearly, in complicated cases you would want the tribunal to do hearings. I envisage the papers-only hearings to be relatively simple matters. I\u2019m also advised that any termination has to have a hearing rather than be dealt with on the papers, and I think that is wise. In relation to the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s issues\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc36517bc020458689deb2c9ba9bc5d9\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me, Minister\u2014could you bring the mike a bit closer please?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022238f527900b64f1897cdd1963cb2369b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, my apologies, my apologies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f369aebe43584162960f98db47d94a75\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b82625324364f6ba021e62457d2cddc\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: You good? OK. In relation to the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s questions\u2014so, look, what\u2019s happening here is the previous Government amended the Residential Tenancies Act in a way that I think all of Parliament supports around family violence. I\u2019m advised that the change being made through this amendment bill deals with the issue of dependants of victims of family violence, which was not picked up during the 2020 changes\u2014could be 2019, might be wrong. I think it might have been 2020\u2014there were about three different bills at one point going through. That wasn\u2019t picked up, so it\u2019s just a minor clarificatory change to deal with that, but the rest of it is in substance the same.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to points around evidence, that\u2019s dealt with in Schedule 2\u2014types of qualifying evidence: protection orders, police safety orders, and charging documents. There\u2019s no intention for the tribunal to get involved. The tribunal is not going to replicate the role of the police or the courts or safety orders or anything like that. It\u2019s not their role, unsurprisingly, but, clearly, there\u2019s an interaction with the tribunal in respect of that type of evidence and the written notice. Actually, as I think about it, the issue of the dependant\u2014I\u2019m fairly sure I had a constituency case around that. There aren\u2019t a vast number of these cases, but, sadly, domestic violence is a fact of life in our communities\u2014or family violence\u2014and so I think it\u2019s a sensible change which I hope will meet with the committee\u2019s approval.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u002267595eab729f4f09af5ed5d7ce06dad8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267595eab729f4f09af5ed5d7ce06dad8\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and I thank the Minister the Hon Chris Bishop for his answers there. I want to draw the Minister\u2019s attention, if I may, to clause 34 and clause 35, where we are\u2014and the Minister talked very briefly there about life, constituent matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EThose particular clauses talk about the provision of email and about when it\u2019s deemed that an email has been received. I wonder if the Minister would consider, given the challenges that some have electronically, given the challenges that some of our constituents have with respect to email addresses\u2014and I, for one, can give an example whereby I\u2019d been sent an email which was actually of importance and, through no fault of my own, was put into a spam inbox. Something that wasn\u2019t seen by me for a wee bit there caused quite bit of a\u2014we were able to sort it out, but it wasn\u2019t something that was done within the time frame that\u2019s being offered here in these clauses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EJust the final point on this particular matter is, given the evolution of communications through our communities, to our constituents, to people in general, whether or not an email is really the only standard that we\u2019re setting here. Communications with our people are complex, they\u2019re varied. Emails change, emails come, emails go\u2014I know a number of constituents in housing matters that I dealt with as a local MP would not give their work email address simply because of the nature of their work and the high volume of traffic that they get through their emails. They would give a different one, which was probably something a little bit more personal\u2014perhaps a Gmail account\u2014and, quite often, the communication was missed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s the point I\u2019m trying to make here: whether or not the Minister, in his considerations with this particular bill, look towards those real-life matters. I know it might sound trivial to some, but for many of our people who find themselves renting, who find themselves with these kinds of agreements, these are matters that can cause huge stress and can simply be fixed if the Minister is of a mind to consider a greater scope of communication.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EAlso, replacement section 136(8), inserted by clause 35, references the time of 5\u00A0p.m. on a day, and I wonder if we can probably, perhaps, be a bit more specific here and talk about whether or not it\u2019s Monday to Friday. For some, that\u2019s what they consider to be a working week; for others, actually, they work shifts, they work evenings, and this is the reality of our people who find themselves renting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll leave these for the consideration of the Minister in the hope that we can look towards making sure that the scope of this bill\u2014and the fact is it\u2019s going to continue through the House\u2014actually reflects the lives of our people and not simply the bubble of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221263cab4b20c41898047a15c12e2ca06\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to take a call from the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2014the Minister\u2019s just taking some advice here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00224f41ef52541d49278bac6b477511d280\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f41ef52541d49278bac6b477511d280\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E OK, that\u2019s fine. Hopefully, the Minister of Housing can have one ear listening to what I\u2019m about to raise and questions that will come of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EJust referring to clause 31, in Part 3\u2014I know some questions have been raised about this clause already, but mine is different. Replacement section 77(7B), inserted by clause\u00A031, says, \u201CThe Tribunal does not have jurisdiction to determine a dispute so far as it raises a question as to whether, in respect of a tenant who gives notice accompanied by qualifying evidence under section 56B,\u2014(a) the tenant has been a victim of family violence while a tenant of the premises; or (b) the tenant\u2019s dependant has been a victim of family violence while residing at the premises with the tenant.\u201D This is part of what we do support in this bill, this particular provision, and it\u2019s really difficult given that there\u2019s another part that we cannot support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EHowever, I wanted to ask the Minister whether there was consideration by him and by his officials for extending it beyond family violence. Of course we take family violence seriously, and we are very relieved that this provision is in the bill, actually, but people live in different circumstances, and there are a lot of people who aren\u2019t necessarily family that are living in the same houses and could be vulnerable due to violence that is committed against them as well. I wonder whether the officials and the Minister gave consideration for just having a more blanket provision that allowed for tenants to exit their tenancy if there was violence occurring or if they were victims of violence or if their children were victims of violence in homes where the perpetrator wasn\u2019t necessarily a family member. You can see that this would be an area that can occur. However, they\u2019re excluded just because of the fact that they\u2019re not blood relatives. I wanted the Minister just to respond to that and let us know whether or not that was considered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00224f1245dd89a94b51a70e799c4e51627b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f1245dd89a94b51a70e799c4e51627b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll deal with that one first, then come back to the point around clause 34. It wasn\u2019t a focus of policy design as part of this amendment bill. The key changes to the bill have already been canvassed around pet bonds, and there\u2019s also a range of other amendments, some of which have been canvassed\u2014more tidying-up provisions to our tenancy law. The whole Act\u2019s pretty out of date to be honest, as members, I think, are nodding and agree. It was passed in 1986, so, at some point, Parliament will have to do a rewrite, but there are some other things to do before then. We didn\u2019t consider that. I\u2019m happy to go away and have a look at it. As the member knows, these changes were made by the previous Government\u2014I think, with broad support\u2014as I indicated just a few moments ago, adding the dependants in there. The regulations have now come into effect relatively recently, from memory. I think we want to see how they bed in, but I\u2019m not close-minded to further changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to this email address point, I\u2019m advised that section 91A of the Act, which clause 34 amends, prescribes how documents can be served on tenants following an application to the Tenancy Tribunal after the tenancy has terminated. The bill enables the use of an email address, where the tenancy was ended more than two months ago, if one has been appropriately provided by the tenant. The reason is, obviously, that email is likely to be a much more reliable method for service than a physical address for contacting a tenant who no longer lives at that rental property. The requirement that the email address was either provided as an address for service or used by the tenant, depending on how long ago the tenancy ended, ensures the email address used is likely to remain appropriate and current. To give you an example, if the landlord files the application more than two years after the tenancy ended, the email address must have been used to communicate with the landlord, or be otherwise supplied in writing, within the previous two years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe bill doesn\u2019t make any change to the existing time limit on applying to the tribunal for a tenancy that has ended. That is set in the Limitation Act at six years from the date of the act or omission. I think we\u2019ve struck the right balance here in the bill. Members might disagree, but all of these things are a bit of a balancing act, and I think we\u2019ve tried to strike the right balance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u00220db2a9a0f50c4b0da4344b3c5e6ece6f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220db2a9a0f50c4b0da4344b3c5e6ece6f\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3605319c2ec47c09031bae51a5c4470\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3605319c2ec47c09031bae51a5c4470\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to give the Hon Dr Duncan Webb a chance to ask something new. They\u2019re good questions that we\u2019re having this afternoon, but there was a little bit of repetition when we were in the committee before lunch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022709a1d0f14bc4360910aef41d813787b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022709a1d0f14bc4360910aef41d813787b\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E No, I\u2019m sure my colleague will sit me down very quickly and jump up if I do that. It\u2019s very shiny\u2014it\u2019s shiny in here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b161860eeb24d1890a13bbf9a2de414\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Let\u2019s see how the question goes, because the Minister has been very full in his answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e54dfc9781e4663be58aade2234f455\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that, and I really appreciate it. It\u2019s actually quite an important point, because I can see the quite appropriate shift towards electronic means of communication. It\u2019s a point of detail, but it\u2019s something that cuts across a whole lot of Acts. It\u2019s about the words used in respect of email. I\u2019m looking at clause 35(2), which inserts replacement section 136(8), \u201CIf any document is transmitted to an electronic address\u201D, right? It\u2019s a very natural use of language, but the word \u201Ctransmitted\u201D is actually a really tricky one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223067ab09b8fb4e0e9e1a0f816d68c234\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1c45f45720845348f5cbecd26f061b2\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no, it is, because if you think of sending an email, you can push send and it cannot leave your own computer, or you could push send and it leaves your own computer but doesn\u2019t leave Parliament\u2019s, or you can push send and it gets into someone else\u2019s wider computer system but not to the person to whom it is addressed, or you can push send and it gets all the way to the person it\u2019s sent to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow, this is dealt with a little bit in the Electronic Transactions Act, which is now quite old\u20142002. When you say \u201Ctransmitted\u201D, I think, because this is service of notices, you need to be clear whether you mean it leaves the electronic system of the sender and its organisation, because emails actually get lost in this ether in the middle, or it actually enters. Does \u201Ctransmitted\u201D mean it enters the system of the person to whom it is addressed? The real point being that things can go wrong without it being either the sender\u2019s or the recipient\u2019s fault. The address is right, the systems are roughly working, but something\u2019s gone wrong. I see the Minister\u2019s going to answer that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022cef3ab8e640244abad73460dfe49a37c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cef3ab8e640244abad73460dfe49a37c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I mean, the member makes a good\u00A0point, and I think, respectfully, it\u2019s probably beyond the scope of this bill because the\u00A0word \u201Ctransmitted\u201D probably appears in lots of statutes and over time Parliament has updated its language around things. He makes a good point about the Electronic Transactions Act 2002\u2014goodness me, I remember when that passed. Again, it\u2019s one of those sorts of basic architectural pieces of legislation we\u2019ll have to turn our mind to in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EUltimately, we\u2019ve taken the\u2014I mean, this is Parliamentary Counsel Office drafting. Is it possible that there is going to be a dispute at the tribunal about what \u201Ctransmitted\u201D means? Yes, I suppose, in theory. I frequently send emails, or I think I\u2019ve sent emails\u2014from my house\u2014on the Parliament server and they never arrive, and I\u2019m sure other members\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0890f2c62ce41e5935101d4870a5acd\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: That old chestnut.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b8fffd90ec14d58ab4a3fd441467e16\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, that old chestnut. Has it been transmitted if it\u2019s not sent? I mean, yep, I can see the arguments before the tribunal now. Am I saying that\u2019s not going to happen? No, it probably will; it might well happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022242a7a0f4ea744f7928344fde35e73a5\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Give them a hint\u2014what do you want to happen? When should it be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c61bc6a8043c4f039da439f12383a397\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m happy to go away and have a look at that and see whether or not we need to make a change, but we are really now into the kind of niche definition, and we\u2019ve based that on counsel advice. I\u2019m comfortable with where it\u2019s at the moment. I\u2019m not saying the member doesn\u2019t have a point, but I think it\u2019s probably a bit beyond the scope of this particular bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022986d7e64d5834bd4ba395f6095b72df5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022986d7e64d5834bd4ba395f6095b72df5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: One last very burning and relevant question from the Hon Kieran McAnulty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef6cceb64bc2414a893a4647a4f89933\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef6cceb64bc2414a893a4647a4f89933\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, and I do appreciate this because this is the one I signalled earlier that I hadn\u2019t had a chance to get to, and I think it\u2019s worth looking into, so thank you very much, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI\u2019m referring to new section 48, \u201CLiability for pet damage\u201D, inserted by Schedule 1. It says it \u201Capplies to any destruction or damage that the landlord becomes aware of on or after the commencement date,\u201D\u2014we\u2019ve got no issue with \u201Con or after the commencement date\u201D\u2014\u201Cunless the tenant proves that the damage or destruction occurred before the commencement date.\u201D I\u2019ve got an issue with this. The landlord only needs to demonstrate that they became aware of it. That\u2019s a very easy thing to say: \u201CI became aware of it on this day.\u201D Then it\u2019s on the tenant to prove otherwise. There could be existing damage, somewhere on the property, that isn\u2019t obvious. On the very day the tenant moves in, the landlord could say, \u201COh, I\u2019ve just become aware of this.\u201D, and it\u2019s on the tenant to prove otherwise. I\u2019m not sure that is fair. I think there\u2019s too much of a requirement on the tenant to prove something that the landlord is saying they\u2019re just becoming aware of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI can absolutely see this being abused, Minister. Absolutely. Now, I\u2019m sure it isn\u2019t his fault. I\u2019m sure it\u2019s just the way that it\u2019s been put together\u2014I think, potentially, with the words that have been used. I don\u2019t even have a solution, but I am concerned about the way that it is currently written. I wonder if the officials behind the Minister may have a potential quick solution to that. I think it\u2019s worthy of a response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022947b91c93aa74cfa8331336cc2b7d23b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022947b91c93aa74cfa8331336cc2b7d23b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Just a moment; the Minister\u2019s just taking some advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022245b01247d814b77ac5a8f2c7b0562dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022245b01247d814b77ac5a8f2c7b0562dd\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Happy to\u2014I mean, the general point is the point I made many hours ago, which is that this is new. It\u2019s actually quite a change to our tenancy law in relation to pets. There are going to be issues as we work our way through, and I\u2019m not pretending that we\u2019ve got it 100 percent right. We\u2019ve done, I think, a pretty reasonable job of quite a change, but, ultimately, some of it will depend on how it operates in practice and how the tribunal works. That\u2019s just the way our tenancy rules work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EAgain, as I said earlier in the debate, a lot of it is down to people actually being reasonable\u2014landlords being reasonable, and there are lots of unreasonable landlords. Frankly, also tenants need to be reasonable about things, and there are plenty of examples of tenants who trash rooms, and all the rest of it. As long as we\u2019re all reasonable, we\u2019ll all get on. Now, clearly there is unreasonableness, and that\u2019s why we have a tribunal, and there are finely balanced issues that need to be worked through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI\u2019m advised that there has to be a date that applies to the tenancies that are in train, and so I\u2019m comfortable with where we\u2019ve got to in relation to section 48. It applies to \u201Cany destruction or damage that the landlord becomes aware of on or after the commencement date, unless the tenant proves that the damage or destruction occurred before the commencement date.\u201D I think what the member is saying is that you reverse the onus so that it\u2019s about the landlord proving that, rather than the tenant proving that. That\u2019s something we could potentially pick up as part of potential amendments in the future, if indeed it\u2019s proven that it is a problem, but we don\u2019t have any evidence of that, because it\u2019s new law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI understand the point he\u2019s making. I\u2019m not opposed to an amendment down the line, but let\u2019s see how the situation beds in and see how the tribunal operates, and see if we need to make any changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022 data-id=\u002274b50d8c20f94e96980381eec490195c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274b50d8c20f94e96980381eec490195c\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022efc631559e36435c8d0d14724bf8538d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022263fb03e50d9434c890cce5f539021f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022263fb03e50d9434c890cce5f539021f0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Tamatha Paul\u2019s amendment to clause 31 set out on Amendment Paper 234 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022760985eb5cd44e9bbb3a665d009da68c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022297e0cb486154e9b9662c246d2ee824e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022297e0cb486154e9b9662c246d2ee824e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Tamatha Paul\u2019s amendment to clause 33 set out on Amendment Paper 235 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224b8762a9d558418b989f7b44ad851edf\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fa73fa917b684e28afdef5b1e2b5d64c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226bd09e1827d542cb94616995eda872f0\u0022\u003ESchedule 1  New Part 8 inserted into Schedule 1AA\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9cd751bf2b04656b4691f19b16b5b36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9cd751bf2b04656b4691f19b16b5b36\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Now we come to the voting on Schedule 1. The question is that Tamatha Paul\u2019s amendment to Schedule 1 set out on Amendment Paper 236 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a56082faaf794d2bbabf5271f07f9000\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00227e23117554774dc4a713395e19e0dabf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e23117554774dc4a713395e19e0dabf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 1 is out of order as being the same as a previous amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b0150b104b3c457a9ff820f7d6ca4cb2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022933cb8918f8a44f6bfa4e2edf55fd477\u0022\u003ESchedule 2  Amendments to Residential Tenancies (Termination for Physical Assault by Tenant and Withdrawal Following Family Violence) Regulations 2022\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222d1495a45d2447628616964a5919cc9e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227b45241ec8204921adf666a024b71a52\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022627ddb26ca22403fa0e8def90622ab18\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022627ddb26ca22403fa0e8def90622ab18\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to our final debate: clauses 1 to 3. This is the debate on \u201CTitle\u201D, \u201CCommencement\u201D, and \u201CPrincipal Act\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3e49cbcf6dc4689a3573802642322cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3e49cbcf6dc4689a3573802642322cb\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I thought I would take the first call just to outline the Government\u2019s approach to this, because we have Amendment Paper 213. The aim of this is to give greater certainty to the sector about when the changes come into effect, and I think members will appreciate it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ECurrently, the bill provides for the key changes in relation to termination of tenancies\u2014which I know has been an issue in the debate\u2014to come into effect six weeks after the Royal assent. This would see this come into effect in mid to late January 2025, but there\u2019d be no specificity because we don\u2019t exactly know when the bill will pass, obviously, and when it will receive the Royal assent. That would work, but the Government\u2019s view is that a fixed date would be easier for everybody, and so the Amendment Paper amends the bill so that the tenancy termination changes come into effect on 30 January 2025. It gives everyone certainty\u2014from officials to landlords and tenants\u2014and a clear date and expectation to work towards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESimilarly, the bill provides for a range of changes aimed at improving clarity and efficiency to come into effect three months after the Royal assent. The Amendment Paper amends the bill so that these changes come into effect on the fixed date of 20 March, which is in around about three months, and it just makes it really clear exactly what date. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe Amendment Paper does not make any changes to the commencement for the two amendments supporting the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) processes, which come into effect the day after the Royal assent, and amendments relating to pets\u2014as we canvassed in the debate on Part 1\u2014will remain. The commencement will be by Order in Council to allow flexibility and time for the pet bond functionality to be developed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019ve previously advised the House, MBIE is working hard on the update to the Bond 2000 system, which is an old system of tenancy bonds, and the clue\u2019s in the name. It was developed in the year 2000, so it\u2019s a bit out of date, and the previous Government funded a programme of modernisation, which we support, and MBIE is under way on that. It\u2019s going to take a few more months and a bit more time to get the pet bond functionality into the system and get it under way, so the commencement provision just gives us a bit of flex around when that happens, and members will be some of the first to know exactly when we will bring that part of the law into effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd75b36e56e541b8bb0ccf857b41691f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd75b36e56e541b8bb0ccf857b41691f\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I acknowledge the contribution of the Minister of Housing there. It is quite extraordinary, though: we\u2019re in urgency rushing through a bill that you are now proposing doesn\u2019t come into effect for a while, and, in part, because something isn\u2019t ready.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll tell you what, I won\u2019t dispute the amendment on the commencement date; I\u2019m going to focus on the title because I believe that the title of the bill doesn\u2019t accurately reflect the guts of this bill. In order to try and find something that did reflect the guts of the bill, I just went to Part 2, which is the substantive part, and took the title of that and put it into the proposed title of this bill so that it becomes the \u201CResidential Tenancies (Termination of Tenancies) Amendment Bill\u201D because, actually, that is an accurate reflection of what\u2019s in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe Government has spent a lot of time talking about pet bonds\u2014fair enough, that\u2019s in the bill; it\u2019s a new thing\u2014but it\u2019s not the main part. The main part is Part 2, and that talks about the changes to tenancies. If you look at the first page of the bill\u2019s commentary, it talks about what the bill will do\u2014one, two, three, four, five bullet points; and none of them talk about pets. They all talk about the changing of tenancies in relation to the termination of tenancies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWhy do we think that that should be reflected in the name? In part, it\u2019s because that\u2019s the reason why we cannot support this. If this was the \u201CResidential Tenancies (Pet Bonds) Amendment Bill\u201D, it would have our support. If it included the provisions around allowing landlords to be more prescriptive around the conditions under which tenants could or could not smoke in that premises, that makes sense. The stuff around family violence including a dependant\u2014that makes sense. I think we\u2019ve identified a couple of areas where the Minister could have done with a bit more time to tidy it up, but, on the whole, we would have supported that. Despite all of that, we cannot support this bill, because it makes it easier for landlords to dismiss tenants, and in the wider context of the housing situation in this country, we fear that this will lead to higher levels of homelessness, and\u2014more importantly\u2014the termination of tenancies outlined in Part 2 of this bill will not achieve the stated aims of the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThis will not lead to more people in tenancies. This will not lead to more people taking on rental accommodation and then taking in tenants. This will not meet the stated aim. If that is the substance of the bill, surely that should be reflected in the name. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m well aware of the restrictions on proposed amendments to names. This fits what is required. It is not a criticism of the content and it is certainly not an unserious suggestion, because it is derived from the bill itself, but I think that focusing on the termination of tenancies would accurately reflect what this bill is actually about, and it would actually reflect the likely outcome of the vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s a shame, because if they had split this up rather than included it, we would have had two different outcomes. One would have had broad support from Parliament and the other would not, but because they\u2019re included, they don\u2019t. The reason for that is the provisions to allow for easier termination of tenancies, and that\u2019s why I\u2019m proposing it be in the title of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022aaaf87ba59b142fcb24140a797a4d85e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aaaf87ba59b142fcb24140a797a4d85e\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I do want to talk about the commencement dates. Because of the staggered nature of sections of this bill, I thought it was very bizarre when I was looking at it. It\u2019s good to get clarity now with regard to the exact dates, but I do want to make the point to the general public who are watching, and also to the Minister that, actually, the most popular part of this bill\u2014the part that has been supported most and favoured by most of the submitters, which is the pet bond\u2014is the actual section that we have no date for in terms of commencement yet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI would like to get further clarification from the Minister of Housing on what time frame we can hope to have around the commencement of the pet bond. That is the big part of what that side of the House has been talking about in relation to this bill the whole way along, while ignoring the provisions that have actually not been supported by the general public and 97\u00A0percent of the submitters. Then I note, of course, that the first part in the staggered commencement of sections of this bill that is going to be implemented is actually that the tenancy terminations would come into force six weeks after Royal assent, which we now hear is 30\u00A0January. I want to know from the Minister why that is the priority. Why can that be moved forward so quickly ahead of all the other provisions? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe least popular part of this bill is the part that is being rushed here. Why couldn\u2019t it wait so that sections of this bill could be done together to ensure that, actually, it looked a little bit more coherent, rather than take this staggered approach? Are there cost savings for the Government here by implementing this on 30 January, which stands to win by having that particular measure implemented by 30 January, and why was that a priority for the Government over implementing the other much more popular sections of this policy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI also want the Minister to clarify for me\u2014because I\u2019m not entirely sure\u2014when do the family violence provisions come into effect here? When will that commence so that our wh\u0101nau know that that will apply to them at that point? That\u2019s another area, along with the pet bonds, that the Government have been touting that we thought would have been prioritised in terms of commencement over the least popular part, which, again, is the tenancy termination section. I ask if we can get some clarity on why certain parts, including that one, were prioritised over the rest; when we can expect the pet bond work to be done and to have commencement; when will the family violence provision come into effect; and anything else with regard to the staggered nature of the commencement that the Minister thinks will be of interest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022dcf22655483b491e8389c9bc71724e63\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dcf22655483b491e8389c9bc71724e63\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you to the member for the reasonable questions. In relation to family violence, I am advised that it is 20 March. In relation to the pet bonds, the member makes a good point that that\u2019s the most popular part of the bill. That\u2019s probably true; in fact, it\u2019s almost certainly true, and I would like them to start tomorrow, but we can\u2019t, because we\u2019ve got to upgrade the bond system, and without being too political about it, the bond system needs an upgrade and the work only got started a year or so ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve been out of Government for six years now, so I know I\u2019m not being political about it, but you need IT systems, and the tenancy bond system is creaking because thousands of New Zealanders rent who would otherwise have liked to be in a home, and there\u2019s an entire system that has got to run on, basically, Microsoft Excel. The investment was made and it\u2019s being rolled through, but these things don\u2019t happen overnight. I\u2019m advised that it will be late 2025, but, rest assured, I say to the member, I\u2019m putting the heat on the good team at the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment to get on with the job and make sure we get it in as quickly as possible. It\u2019s just the reality; we can\u2019t do it straight away. If we could, I would, but we can\u2019t, so we are where we are. The Order in Council allows for a bit of flex in terms of the commencement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to the residential tenancies changes around no-cause terminations, reasonable people can disagree around this. Clearly, the Opposition has a different view to the Government. I appreciate that point of view. We want to bring them in. It just reverts the law back to actually what was the law until 2021, from memory\u2014it might have been 2020\u2014so it\u2019s not a radical change in that sense, and rather than just have the six weeks, as I\u2019ve said before, we\u2019ve gone for 30 January so that there\u2019s maximum clarity for everybody. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b979090e74f6423aaca79dcca8dd827e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b979090e74f6423aaca79dcca8dd827e\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002294e922ed6bd34ca4af3ea09c6495f126\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c49ed1d93c9c43eead99c124d2f0d27b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00226b349330c2044f3a8389fb0fab466c1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b349330c2044f3a8389fb0fab466c1b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Tamatha Paul\u2019s amendments to Amendment Paper 213 set out on Amendment Paper 217 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022475b58d9e61e4de48fd507943e75d1da\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments to the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments to the amendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00220fb1dad500c7477fad1d5e780ab36a0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220fb1dad500c7477fad1d5e780ab36a0d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to clause 2 set out on Amendment Paper 213 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225c29a94ec10547aab60e194f71b039e7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a93f88fb8ea44b5095f8215b4d042ff8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022da029885560f47368969b47a17da24a7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000778\u0022\u003EBill to be reported with amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000779\u0022\u003EHouse resumed. \u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022008f441e8e4447a5bf8cecb6998e28a8\u0022\u003EREPORT OF COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE HOUSE\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f48ff25065e84aac9d9ea273447dc648\u0022\u003EREPORT OF COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE HOUSE\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d817c10f99bc4fa78875ea4c28eb09de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d817c10f99bc4fa78875ea4c28eb09de\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, the committee has considered the Fast-track Approvals Bill and reports it with amendment. The committee has also considered the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill and reports it with amendment. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EReport adopted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022bbf7406200b2432386baf0e168c5046e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bbf7406200b2432386baf0e168c5046e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill is set down for third reading immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002254255d708cf74940be45d40a7c4d5a5c\u0022\u003EResidential Tenancies Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002261f87f3c78b045d5886514d92bfd53a6\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022db194a6396914966bd9125b70c2562af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db194a6396914966bd9125b70c2562af\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272c41a2769b049f9940261060269b79c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re reading it for a third time, I think.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022204b6de0354340579591cb470f0184fa\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, all right. I move that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d26137da95624f37be34cddfa5ad4a14\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it\u2019s not quite stated here in my little instruction. You\u2019re going to move this for a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022188a3fea7c584015af739b2d4a96f8fa\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: OK. I present a legislative statement, which I assume will eventually be published under the authority of the House. I move, That the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe bill makes a number of changes to the Residential Tenancies Act (RTA), as we\u2019ve been discussing at quite some considerable length during the committee stage. I do want to just thank Opposition members for the very useful and constructive questions and comments that were made through the committee of the whole House stage; I enjoyed participating. I\u2019m just a bit sorry I couldn\u2019t be there for all of the debate, but I was there for a decent chunk of it, and it was, I think, a good example of how the committee stage can help ventilate issues and, maybe, over time, improve the law. That was good to see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWe are a pro-tenant Government and a pro-landlord Government, and, at a basic level, there\u2019s not a fundamental contradiction around that. Most importantly, we are a pro - cheaper housing Government, because rents in this country are too high, house prices are too high, and we have a severe housing affordability challenge, as the 2023 census data that was released last week, I think, made very clear. I won\u2019t litigate that for the House, but everyone in the House is aware of the appalling state of housing in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThis is a suite of sensible pro-tenant and pro-landlord changes to encourage landlords to enter the market, give tenants more ability to secure a rental home, including for their furry family member or, indeed, non-furry as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIt increases flexibility and support for landlords to end tenancies, aiming to remove barriers to increasing private rental housing supply, as well as other changes. We\u2019ve well canvassed, in the House, the changes to the tenancy termination provisions in the RTA that will largely return the law to what it was pre-2020.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIt also changes the rule around the rollover of fixed-term tenancies into periodic tenancies, which is a technical change but will, I think, make a difference on the margins and markets like Dunedin and Queenstown and, interestingly, I\u2019m advised, also Waiheke Island, where a lot of people who would otherwise put their rental houses into the rental market on a fixed term but are, essentially, disincentivised to do so because of near-automatic rollover of the fixed term into a periodic tenancy. It doesn\u2019t give them any flexibility or discretion, and, as a result, those houses just sit on an Airbnb when they could otherwise be in the private rental market. Strong feedback from Queenstown, for example, in 2022 and 2023, is that that is having a really deleterious effect on the Queenstown rental housing market. Now, clearly there are wider issues in the Queenstown housing market that we need to address\u2014most notably the supply of land, and infrastructure funding and financing\u2014and we\u2019ve got work under way around those as well. But I do think it will make a difference at the margins.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve dealt with the issues to do with pet bonds. This is a very paw-sitive move for tenants. It will have a positive effect on wellbeing, and with the way our rental market is, it is challenging\u2014sometimes impossible\u2014for tenants with pets to find pet-friendly rentals. So we are em-bark-ing on changes which, we think, will have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a56298bc4ea4b5b8f0a5034d769bf4f\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Very good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c65d99c729f94f78927620217b4af087\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, thank you. I thought I\u2019d get a smile out of the Hon Kieran McAnulty, but not a sausage\u2014not a sausage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022027194f0483d463ebf3b33ee57992871\u0022\u003EHon Mark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ll be able to get the greyhound in there, Kieran.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d78b6e5b62824c66ae7e1ab2eee3ea2a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, exactly, exactly. That\u2019s the point. We\u2019ve talked about the greyhounds a lot this morning. Look, it\u2019s a great day for the animals in New Zealand, particularly greyhounds. It\u2019s a great week actually. Anyway\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d98b39cc6e8404a80fa069e5aca6a47\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: You wouldn\u2019t give them an exemption.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022034e251320ef4856acefc8f1189872dc\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: No, I wouldn\u2019t give them an exemption. We went through that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291f2f8529d194e5d872c95faf5a5b3c6\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: No, so I\u2019m not going to smile at you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a022008f0fb42ed9d4c6a24a1d65ad5\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! OK. I\u2019m not going to relitigate that one. The major change here is that the bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022322e2f84b7e2472d9a25cc85f6185a97\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: Good day for cat ladies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5222fe00e4e4ff1b7c5a7846a3bd785\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022807d1fc7005345798a4e4a77fb11ef04\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: Good day for cat ladies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222beab863942a40b3804a80ad36234145\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Good day for cat ladies\u2014I\u2019m not going to go there. You mentioned it; I\u2019m not going to go there. I\u2019m not going to go there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227938cc4d084c4befafaeab8d7680b748\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s a dog man.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242f2c21987204f0b9c53a25c1e4ebb9a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I am a\u2014well, I\u2019ve got a cat as well. We\u2019ve got a cat as well. That\u2019s right. RIP, Buzz.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe major change is that we are, essentially, reversing what we have at the moment, which is making it easier for tenants to have a pet, and landlords can only withhold consent on reasonable grounds. We had a long debate, back and forth this morning, about what \u201Creasonableness\u201D means. There are non-exhaustive definitions in the bill, and, as I said to the House this morning, there\u2019s 140 mentions of the word \u201Creasonable\u201D in the RTA.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe bill enables landlords to require a pet bond, if they\u2019ve agreed their tenant can keep a pet, up to the equivalent of two weeks\u2019 rent. Only one pet bond per tenancy can be required at any one time, even if there\u2019s more than one pet. It includes pet consent rules clarifying the rights and obligations of tenants and landlords relating to pets and rental properties. A landlord has to provide a written response to a tenant\u2019s pet request within 21 days, stating whether or not they agree. We had a debate about whether or not 21 was the right number or not. I\u2019m happy to see how that goes, and we can always change it later.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESome submitters thought the term \u201Creasonable grounds\u201D was too subjective, but as I just said before, the word \u201Creasonable\u201D is consistent with other provisions in the Act. It\u2019s important to note that pet conditions must be reasonable, having regard to the nature of the premises and the type of pet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe bill makes tenants liable for the cost of damage caused as a result of keeping a pet that is not fair wear and tear, and this change addresses landlord concerns about excessive pet damage costs and incentivises tenants to take additional care in rental properties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EDisability assistance dogs were debated at length this morning, particularly by the Greens. The bill expressly excludes disability dogs as pets, and it\u2019s in the interpretation section.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThese pet provisions are a win-win. Landlords will have assurance they\u2019re not out of pocket for possible damage to their rentals, and tenants will have more rental options. I think the changes are pretty awesome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe bill also makes a whole range of other amendments: a common-sense approach to the issue of smoking, which has been a concern for the sector, clarifying that smoking inside premises can be prohibited. It clarifies and strengthens retaliatory termination provisions providing it is unlawful for a landlord to serve a termination notice in retaliation to a tenant enforcing their rights or in response to legally enforceable actions taken against the landlord by others\u2014that\u2019s a pro-tenant move\u2014and supports efficiency in the tribunal, enabling adjudicators to make decisions on the papers by reference to documents submitted by parties where appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a good step forward for a whole range of different reasons, most notably the pet bond provisions, but, most importantly, it will provide a bit of extra incentive for landlords to enter the rental market. They are an important part of our property market. They are an important part of our housing situation. Ultimately, as I always say to people in relation to housing, long-term answers to our housing solution are more houses. We need more rental properties, we need more social houses, we need more market houses, and we need more affordable properties. The ultimate answer to all of these issues is land supply, urban zoning, and infrastructure funding and finance, and we\u2019ve got work under way around that, but this is a positive step in the right direction. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1486b2926c744aebacd3b996f6d925f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1486b2926c744aebacd3b996f6d925f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister presented a legislative statement, and it is published under the authority of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00228ce6a2b8cb714874a118f7f0e39c8de6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ce6a2b8cb714874a118f7f0e39c8de6\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. When we did the second reading speech, it came after the Minister spending the entire speech talking about pet bonds. I thought today, given that this third reading speech happened straight after the committee of the whole House stage, where we have spent some time diving into\u2014or attempting to\u2014and understanding the Government\u2019s rationale with the significant changes to tenancy rules under this bill, that perhaps they might try and change their approach and try, this time, not to fool people into thinking that this bill is all about pets. It\u2019s not. It\u2019s not even mentioned on the front page when it talks about the bill summary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThere are five bullet points, and every single one of them talks about the reduction of tenant rights proposed in this bill, the reduction of notice periods, and the reintroduction of no-cause terminations, but if you listened to that third reading speech, people would be forgiven that it was actually about something different altogether. Thank God for legislative statements, because if people came back to this day and listened to what the Minister had to say, they would be forgiven for thinking this had nothing to do with tenancy altogether, but it does; it is the guts of this bill, and it is the reason why we cannot support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe pet bonds stuff makes sense, and I wish that it was actually in a different bill, so that we could vote for it. The changes to give landlords clarity around rules restricting smoking inside absolutely makes sense. The inclusion of a dependant on the special provisions for those that find themselves, regrettably, in a family violence situation, we support that. But none of that outweighs the destructive changes that this bill does, and the gall of the Minister to stand up and say that this Government is a pro-tenant Government\u2014rubbish. To stand up and to say that today is a good day for those that are looking to find a house amidst this housing crisis\u2014again, rubbish. There is nothing in this bill that is going to help people into\u00A0a home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIf this bill was about building houses, sure, but this bill is about making it easier for landlords and making it harder for tenants. The premise behind this, the Government argues\u2014not that you\u2019d know from the Minister\u2019s third reading speech\u2014is that if you make it easier for landlords, there will be more landlords and, therefore, more rentals. It is a flawed logic in the context of the current housing situation in this country. When the Government has, essentially, ended new builds for K\u0101inga Ora post-2026 and has significantly reduced funding for community providers and has tightened up the criteria for entering into emergency housing to the extent that during scrutiny week, the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development said that this is playing a part in increasing levels of homelessness\u2014and now we have this. All of those things are Government decisions, and then, to top it off, the Government\u2019s solution to this is to make it easier for landlords to kick tenants out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, even if their argument was right that these changes would incentivise more landlords into the market, if the Government isn\u2019t incentivising house builds through K\u0101inga Ora or community housing or other means, what that means is that first-home buyers will be locked out of the market, because another decision that the Government made, that this bill needs to be seen in the context of, is their decision to reintroduce interest deductibility. Now, that still applied to new builds; it did not apply to existing homes, and what was seen was that investment shifted from existing homes into new builds. That\u2019s been taken away now, and it\u2019s an important piece to understand the full picture of the housing crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EConsents are down, home builds are down, the number of new homeowners entering the market is down, and 12,000 construction workers have lost their jobs since this Government took office. That\u2019s important, because the Government stood there and said, \u201CThis bill will help the housing crisis.\u201D The only way it will do that is to incentivise new landlords entering the market. They\u2019re not entering the market by building homes, so they are competing with potential first-home buyers on existing homes, and that drives house prices up. We know it does. It\u2019s done it in the past and we\u2019re set to make the same mistakes, as a country, and I find that really sad, because when Minister Bishop stands up and says he wants to solve the housing crisis, I actually believe him. The problem is that the policies that he is introducing to this Parliament don\u2019t back that up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIf we accept the Government\u2019s rationale that these changes will mean more landlords in the market, that means that there\u2019ll be fewer first-home buyers, prices will go up, landlords will pay more for houses, and they will need higher rents to reap their investment back. This is bad news. All for what? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWhy\u2014why is this the priority? Of all the things that the Government could do to address the lack of rentals in this country, they\u2019ve chosen to make it easier for landlords to kick tenants out without showing any evidence at all that there was actually a problem. If the Government came to the House and demonstrated clear data to show that the changes that were made to tenancy laws by the previous Government were actually stopping people finding rentals, then they might have a case. We pleaded with them during the committee stage to show us that evidence and to point us towards a source\u2014point us to any sort of data set. They couldn\u2019t do it, because this won\u2019t do what they said it would do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIt does some good things. I would have liked the bill to have done more. I think it is actually a shame that the Minister didn\u2019t accept my amendment put forward at the committee stage to make those greyhounds that are coming out of the industry, as a result of the pending ban, exempt from the pet bond for four years, and the flip side of that was that a landlord would have been able to claim two weeks\u2019 more rent than what they are currently allowed to if there are damages. It meant that the landlord wasn\u2019t worse off, but it meant that there was no barrier to a tenant taking in a greyhound, and it would have helped a lot with the pending influx of extra greyhounds. I think that is a genuine shame, but I hope that the Minister is true to his word that he said that he will go look into it, and I encourage the Government to seriously consider that. We are going to need some provisions to help home these greyhounds, and this would have been a real, practical way to do it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENevertheless, that still actually wouldn\u2019t have changed our position on this, even though it was my amendment and I would have loved the Government to have accepted it, because, at the end of the day, there is enough evidence already available to show, as a combination of things, that when you make it easier for landlords to kick tenants out, as this bill does, and the Government doesn\u2019t encourage the building of houses and it pulls back on K\u0101inga Ora and it slows down the momentum of community housing providers and it stops people entering emergency housing\u2014what does that all add up to? Unaffordable rents, unaffordable house prices, and increased homelessness. Does that remind anyone of anything? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c922107b76c48f6bf97627b72633f93\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: John Key. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222894e5b4521048cb9a7b9752adebac64\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: The nine years of the John Key Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297a985281d0b4fcc8117993a5bd392e4\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: Been there, done that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d168e7dd73cd4a63b50bdafed22ed53b\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Been there, done that, and here we are again. Back to the future, not back on track. Back to the same old, tired policies that benefit landlords, but don\u2019t benefit anybody else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022 data-id=\u002269972a1963f4456d875e187ec5510a28\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269972a1963f4456d875e187ec5510a28\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E Ahiahi m\u0101rie, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s with sadness that I address the House on this bill tonight, because I don\u2019t own a home, and probably won\u2019t for a while, even with all of the different tools and mechanisms and privilege that I do have access to as a member of Parliament. I know, from my experience pre being an MP that, as renters, we don\u2019t ask for a lot. We\u2019re only asking for a roof over our head. We\u2019re only asking that when we pay our rent on time, we get the entitlements that are legally provided for. We only ask that we can live in a place where we don\u2019t get sick from the black mould all over the roof. We only ask that the bathrooms that we use\u2014that the hot water is running. We only ask that there aren\u2019t mushrooms growing out of the shower. We only ask that the roof doesn\u2019t leak on our head. Somehow, in Aotearoa, that\u2019s become too much to ask for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EActually, we don\u2019t ask for what we deserve, because there\u2019s more than a million of us. It\u2019s interesting being based in Wellington Central and reading about the slumlords that used to exist in our urban centres, and how back in the day is so similar to how things are now for renters in New Zealand. Somehow, if you live in one of those slum houses and one of those slum flats that has become normalised in our country, you\u2019re looked down upon, and this bill is an example of the way that you are looked down upon. But, if you own the slums, if you\u2019re a slumlord and you own 20 of those things, somehow our society privileges that. Somehow our society and our systems applaud that kind of behaviour, because, at the end of the day, this bill is actually about the rich getting richer, because we live in a country where housing isn\u2019t treated as a human right; it\u2019s treated as an opportunity for people to make money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EThat to me is morally bankrupt because, as I\u2019ve said over and over and over again on this bill: how can anybody be expected to live a decent life if they don\u2019t have a roof over their head? The answer to that is obvious and clear: you can\u2019t. You can\u2019t live a decent or meaningful life. You can\u2019t go and get a job. You can\u2019t look after yourself. You can\u2019t raise your family if you don\u2019t have a roof over your head.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003ENow, today, we\u2019ve spent the entire day canvassing this bill and trying to understand\u2014trying to give the Government the benefit of the doubt, actually, to actually try and see whether there is a basis for this decision. We asked over and over and over again\u2014we asked the Minister of Housing and we asked the Associate Minister of Housing what is the evidential basis that underpins the rhetoric that this Government has provided around bringing back no-cause evictions, and they told us over and over again that it\u2019s about helping landlords and property managers take a chance on riskier tenants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EWell, first of all, what is a risky tenant? Who are we talking about when we\u2019re saying these so-called risky tenants? Are we talking about M\u0101ori? Are we talking about poor people? Are we talking about disabled people? Like, if you\u2019re going to say that that\u2019s your rationale, then be very clear and very specific about who it is that you\u2019re talking about. Also, even if that was the case, then where is the evidence to show that this would even allow for property managers and landlords to take a chance? That doesn\u2019t exist, and that\u2019s because this bill is simply a product of the coalition agreement\u2014the infamous coalition agreement that somehow happens to supersede every other agreement, every other treaty, every other international convention in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EThey\u2019ve decided that that\u2019s what they\u2019re going to do, and so they\u2019ve worked backwards\u2014they\u2019ve worked backwards\u2014to try and make the evidence work and to try and make a case for no-cause evictions. It hasn\u2019t worked, because if you look at the regulatory impact statement, you look at the evidence, you look at the data, and you listen to the people that came and spoke to us about this bill, it becomes clear that there is no basis for this bill. It\u2019s purely political, and even with the policy problem, there are so many ways that you could try and encourage landlords to take a chance on riskier tenants. There are lots of different ways that they can make this work. But, no, the outcome was already determined within the coalition agreement, and so that\u2019s what they\u2019ve pursued.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really strange that they\u2019ve pursued that, because there\u2019s not even support within the property industry for no-cause evictions, because 53 percent of people who submitted on this bill who were representing property managers or landlords\u2014or were, themselves, those two things\u2014don\u2019t even support this bill. Then, if you look at the public\u2019s perspective, 97 percent of people don\u2019t support this bill, so there\u2019s actually not a lot of support for this bill. But I think the Government knows that and understands that, and, like my colleague Kieran McAnulty was saying, that\u2019s why they\u2019ve couched it in all the fluff. They\u2019ve fluffed it up so that it detracts from the fact that there is no basis for no-cause evictions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EThe reason there is no basis for no-cause evictions is because if you look at the way that that kind of law has been applied around the world, it has resulted in nothing but increased homelessness and chaos and destruction of people\u2019s lives. The fact that it\u2019s been couched in all this fluff with the pet bonds, which we could get into as well, because the pet bond provisions aren\u2019t even as great as they\u2019ve been touted to be\u2014it\u2019s been couched in all this fluff because I think that the Government is ashamed to be bringing back no-cause evictions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EAs we watch the results and the destruction that will come from this decision that we are about to make, sadly we\u2019re going to look back at this and we are all going to feel ashamed that we allowed this to happen. I\u2019m not surprised, because we\u2019ve got a pro-landlord Government. We\u2019ve got a Government made up of politicians who all\u2014not all, sorry. We have a Government made up, by and large, of politicians who own multiple properties, and that is the problem. There should be more people in this room who have never owned a property, because maybe then we\u2019d get better decisions that actually treat housing as the human right that it needs to be treated as.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EThe thing is, as we live in a democracy and there are actually more of us than there are of you\u2014there are more renters in this country than there are landlords. Thank you for doing this no-cause evictions mahi, because I think renters will actually recognise their power in numbers and utilise that, and this is going to be a one-term Government\u2014not just because of all of this but because of everything else that the Government has decided to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s use the last two minutes to talk about solutions, because that\u2019s a big piece of criticism that we always get: we\u2019re always quick to point out the harm, but we never point out the solutions. I\u2019ll tell you what the solutions are. First of all, we need rent controls, because those members might never understand what it feels like to have an unexpected rent increase sprung on you at a time where you don\u2019t have the financial means to actually pay that rent, and the anxiety and the despair that it causes people when those kinds of decisions are sprung on them. We need rent controls. We need a rental warrant of fitness system that actually looks at the dilapidated and poor and disgusting state of rental housing in New Zealand\u2014speaking as someone living in Wellington, where we are notorious for the quality of our housing. Most importantly, we need a mass public housing build programme, because the core problem here is capitalism, and it\u2019s the way\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EFunny, that\u2019s always the root of all problems. We always arrive back at that point, don\u2019t we, guys? We always arrive back at that point. In this country, we treat housing like a game of Monopoly, like a business, like a thing to be profited from, and that is fundamentally and morally bankrupt because, again, people don\u2019t get to choose whether or not they have a roof over their heads. People don\u2019t get to make that option. You cannot live a meaningful or decent or productive life\u2014economy, people\u2014if you don\u2019t have a roof over your head. That\u2019s why we are in full, staunch opposition to this bill. We will continue to be so, and we look forward to putting our rental policies in place in 2026. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022 data-id=\u0022674677814c694f3c978e7aa196ef262c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022674677814c694f3c978e7aa196ef262c\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, there is a bit of a dark cloud hanging over that side of the House, isn\u2019t there? Let\u2019s try to brighten things up a little bit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EThis is a great day, not just for landlords but for tenants as well, because when you separate people against each other and you say tenants are getting this and landlords are getting that, all you\u2019re doing is making a conflict where there doesn\u2019t need to be one. To have a landlord, you must have a tenant. To have a tenant, you must have a landlord. To have that relationship, you have to have a property. What this Government has done, by following through on what the ACT Party campaigned for and this coalition Government has signed up to do, is restore confidence in a market which operates when participants come together with mutual respect and dignity, have a chance for both to express their ways and their rights and privileges. Those people need to be able to come together and supply one another with what they need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EA landlord needs someone to occupy their house who looks after it, who respects it, who pays the rent, who treats their neighbours with care, and who doesn\u2019t diminish the property value. A tenant needs a landlord who looks after their property, maintains it, buys it in the first place\u2014actually, let\u2019s go back a few steps: works hard, saves, invests, and buys one, and then allows someone to occupy that property. What we end up with is a relationship, and that relationship is going to be going back to the way it was when we had people who respected each other rather than holding each other to ransom. I have to say that that was the feeling that the property-investing community\u2014\u201Cthe landlords\u201D, as they have been tagged over there\u2014have been feeling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EWhat the downstream effect of this feeling is, is that you end up with people who don\u2019t want to take risks, not just on tenants but, actually, on even supplying a property to the market\u2014even being a landlord. People don\u2019t want to take that risk, because if you have got your hard work and capital invested in a property and then you have no ability to guide the way it is looked after, the way the person who is occupying it treats it, why would you take that risk? I think we need people taking a punt in New Zealand, saying, \u201CI want to invest my capital in a way that supplies to the market\u201D, who needs it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fff653cc61bf4405bf70f053a2295938\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re not smarter, you\u2019re not hard-working; we just don\u2019t have a fair tax system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242bfdf6fc3944daa909d5721174ca7ae\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: I know you say, \u201COh, the people who care about the economy\u201D, on this side of the House. The economy is a way to describe the way our society operates. It\u2019s when people come together with mutual benefit, and that is what we are trying to bring back to this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EThere was an earlier conversation today in the House. I hesitate to use this term, but there has been described a \u201Cwar\u201D on landlords previously, and I think what we are seeing now is the end to that, so described by others in the past\u2014a conflict\u2014which was causing a vast amount of collateral damage to tenants. I think what we are seeing is an ending of hostilities in that particular sphere of New Zealand\u2019s psyche. I have to say, after listening to the speeches on the other side, it\u2019s more of just a d\u00E9tente on that side; it\u2019s just a pausing in hostilities. You can hear them just waiting for that power so that they can come in and say to people, \u201CI demand you do this with the property that you own. You\u2019ve invested your life into this product or this property or this asset, and I demand you do what I say!\u201D That is just something that we cannot go back to in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EWe had a speech poorly delivered, not a lot of passion, by Mr Kieran McAnulty. I mean, he is the hardest-working MP in the Labour Party, so you can forgive him for being a bit exhausted at this point in the week. He asked what this Government is doing to get some more houses. Well, Mr McAnulty, the market needs to have more houses. I agree with you, and this Government is doing multiple things to it. I won\u2019t digress too far, Madam Speaker, and feel free to pull me up, but we\u2019ve got a cost of housing which makes it harder for people to actually build houses to deliver to each other. And that means that we need to do things like sorting out the products that go into houses that become rental properties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EThat means going through the Building Act and making it easier to bring products in from overseas\u2014something that we\u2019ve campaigned for and this Government is delivering. We\u2019re making interest deductibility come back, not as fast as I would perhaps like to see it, but faster than it would have without us. We\u2019ve got things like Resource Management Act reform, which the Minister earlier this week has indicated will be coming before this House. That is something that has been sorely needed in this country, so we can actually build\u2014so we can build places for each other to live, for each other to work, and so that we can produce an economy which will provide for others, because that is what we\u2019re all about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EThis bill simplifies a few things as well. Oh, actually, hang on, there was another part in there that I\u2019d like to address. We heard Tamatha Paul say things like, \u201CAll a tenant asks for is a long list of: not a mouldy house, not a leaky roof\u2014all I want is a roof over my head.\u201D That is a very fair comment. You do just want to have a roof over your head. You do just want to have a safe, warm place to live. We don\u2019t get those by punishing the people who are supplying it. That is the feeling from the people who are supplying it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EI come today to this House to report that the property industry, who invest and try to be good landlords, have felt under pressure. They have been exiting. They have been less \u201Crisk-take-y\u201D\u2014\u201Crisk-take-y\u201D? That\u2019s a bit of a funny word. They\u2019ve taken less risk. You can say, \u201CWell, you know, they\u2019re going to take a punt on\u201D\u2014I can\u2019t remember the language that was being used over there to try and denigrate tenants who were probably not top of the list when it comes to property inspections, but I think, if you allow people to take risks, you will get more people housed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EIf you allow people to take risk, you will not just get more people who wouldn\u2019t have been housed housed; you will get people who have been housed and they want to move up into a different part of the community\u2014as in, they want to move into a part of the community with\u2014[Interruption] No, I don\u2019t think so, Mr Bayly; I\u2019m perfectly enjoying the speech right now, because this is something that we have asked for, for a long time. New Zealand has asked for it for a long time. It is a place in New Zealand that needs to have a functioning property market. The ACT Party heard from the communities that were affected. We represented them into Parliament. We did things, like the pet bond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EThe pet bond was not just a piece of fluff tagged on the end; this is an important part of what makes somebody feel at home. It\u2019s when they have their companion animal or the ability to get a pet. I think we\u2019ve heard from many people who have seen the benefit of this. You could tell by the first part of this bill\u2019s committee stage, where the Opposition said, \u201CLook, we have some quibbles with it\u201D\u2014and I think, fair enough, you could say it could be more, it could be less, it could be defined, we don\u2019t want to leave it out, we want it to be more strict on what sort of pets, but I think we\u2019ve landed in a good space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s a credit to the ACT Party for bringing this idea to the House so that people can have the life that they would like to choose and just pay a small two weeks of bond for the privilege of having an animal in someone else\u2019s property, which is their home. Madam Speaker, I\u2019ll leave it there. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u002239ba491f26224d7994485f7000ba5d19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239ba491f26224d7994485f7000ba5d19\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a privilege to stand and rise on behalf of New Zealand First in support of the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill. And I\u2019ll begin my contribution by acknowledging the work that has gone on with the Social Services and Community Committee. I\u2019ll mention also the Minister of Housing, who brought this bill to the House, and the contribution of a part of this in terms of the pet bond from the ACT Party, and I will speak to that in just a moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EMy home is my castle, and currently I\u2019m between castles, so I\u2019d like to talk a little bit about what that feels like. I\u2019ve been a homeowner. I have been a landlord\u2014a very good landlord, I think. I have been a tenant fairly recently. When I was a tenant fairly recently, I had fabulous landlords, because they allowed me to have my two cats, Romeo and Leonardo, with me. It was because of their consideration of me having my cats that I could stay in that wonderful place. I do understand how vitally important it is for women of a certain age who have cats to be able to have their cats in their homes, particularly in rentals. I think that is something that as we have an aging population in particular, the companionship of our cats, maybe a small dog, whatever it might be, is a consideration. I think that those landlords that are willing to do that\u2014they\u2019re usually because they\u2019re pet owners themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EThe particular changes in this legislation that will enable people to have their pets because of the pet bond will in fact broaden out the types of landlords that may say, \u201CActually, because there is a pet bond now, I will take the opportunity to have a tenant with a pet because I\u2019ll be covered financially in case there\u2019s any damage or whatever caused by the pet.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of other points I\u2019d like to make about that. Incentivising with the pet bond is a fantastic amendment, noting also that there are around 1.7 million renters in New Zealand; 80 percent rent from the private market. This amendment bill will really support that private sector to continue to be good landlords and continue to put more into that rental market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000866\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m in the process of actually beginning the process of building my own home, and we have that desire\u2014we grow up with that ideal, that vision, that dream of owning our own homes. If we can get to build a home, that\u2019s such a wonderful process, except for when you get to council. In particular, Auckland Council is very difficult to get that building consent and resource consent processing through. For quite a period of time, you might need to rent somewhere while you\u2019re going through that build process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000867\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c911d24537b4070a44cb9231fe0bf31\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That was good\u2014you brought it back to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225431ff4d9fea4f3ea5bce5fa5b266be9\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s really interesting for a person like myself, who has two cats, while I\u2019m in the build process\u2014which is going to take more than a year\u2014to be able to know that I can go and rent with my pets rather than having to farm them out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EThis is a very good bill. I note that the pet bond will be one bond per tenancy, regardless of whether you have maybe two cats, like myself. In terms of the commencement of that, it will come later once there is the upgrade to the bond system, which the Minister has spoken to the House about this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EIn all, this is a very good piece of legislation, and on behalf of New Zealand First I\u2019m very pleased to commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022879e08c01c454ff8b1966288e99ea86c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022879e08c01c454ff8b1966288e99ea86c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u0022164c9dfdca924a53aa0bac8190e0bb26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022164c9dfdca924a53aa0bac8190e0bb26\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa e te Whare. \u201CStone the crows\u201D is the closet comment I\u2019ll get to discussing pets in this particular bill, because that\u2019s what it feels like. It\u2019s like \u201CJeez, stone the crows\u2014is this really happening?\u201D It was disappointing, despite, I guess, the humour that was put around the pets and all of that pet k\u014Drero, that what was ignored most noticeably was the people part of it and the impact it will have on people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EOf course, pets are precious\u2014ka pai t\u0113n\u0101 [that is reasonable]. People mai i Te Tai Tokerau mai i Te Aup\u014Duri ko te mea nui ko te tangata [from Te Tai Tokerau, from Te Aup\u014Duri, understand that the most important thing is people]. I\u2019m just putting out those for the committee to understand and, ideally, appreciate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThis bill puts wh\u0101nau and families in harm\u2019s way. How disappointing and dangerous to be placing in harm\u2019s way renters with little or no evidence but a reliance on speculative assumptions to improve the housing supply. We\u2019re yet to see, but we already know where that\u2019s going to end up. It seems we are consigned to be a nation of renters because the housing market is so inaccessible and so unaffordable for the majority of this country. The dire state of housing in New Zealand is a point that I know the other side of the House knows about\u2014whether they really understand it in the way that M\u0101ori do, I would doubt that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000875\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ENo research endorses the notion that having 90-day no-cause evictions will alleviate pressures during a housing crisis; in fact, it will exacerbate the challenges that the sector already faces. I\u2019m not quite sure why that is not understood let alone appreciated enough, but that\u2019s what happens when you have a gap of knowledge and a misunderstanding of reality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000876\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThe risk is this: if we lessen the time frames and afford greater freedom and eviction processes to landlords, we will absolutely see drastic increases in homelessness and reliance on social housing, and already 25,000 people are on the social housing waiting list. These amendments will change the lives of many, and not for good, who are already marginalised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000877\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EEviction is a leading precursor to homelessness. I will say that again: eviction is a leading precursor to homelessness, and M\u0101ori already make up over 50 percent of renters and 60 percent of homeless communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000878\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EResearch shows that the high proportion of renters in this country are M\u0101ori. In Te Tai Tokerau, our wh\u0101nau, m\u0101ua ko Peeni, m\u014Dhia me Willow an\u014D hoki, we understand and contend with rent prices of up to $600, $700, $800 a week, and a third of wh\u0101nau income goes to paying that. It\u2019s a tough reality on a daily basis. In 2019, it was identified that over 40 percent of renters spend more than a third. I would hate to think where the figures sit now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000879\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EFor nearly a third of renters, it can take up to four months to find an appropriate rental property, and, in all of the discussion, I can\u2019t hear that that\u2019s really and truly understood, and it\u2019s definitely not appreciated in this bill, sadly. Mums and dads\u2014there will be pets there but mostly mums and dads\u2014will face the reality, particularly M\u0101ori, of their children, their mokopuna, being removed from their care because they cannot provide a safe and good and warm home. That\u2019s on us and that\u2019s on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000880\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EWhen Minister Potaka, I think, was speaking, he used the word \u201Cm\u014Dkai\u201D in his k\u014Drero, in the pets conversation, and I thought then, \u201CIf only he understood how that\u2019s deeply and truly understood in our tikanga.\u201D With all of that said, and the deep disappointment that this party carries with this particular bill\u2014and others might think otherwise, but they do not know otherwise; only we know\u2014it behoves me to absolutely reject this bill. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u002273950c337999440b9c2492ce1878280a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000881\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273950c337999440b9c2492ce1878280a\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E This Government is really saying \u201CMerry Christmas\u201D to what the ACT Party calls the \u201Cproperty investment community\u201D in giving coal to a third of the country who rents, who will now be far more vulnerable to be evicted and to face homelessness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000882\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s so shameless that this Government is ramming through this piece of legislation under urgency, rather than by going through the usual motions, to literally gift to landlords across the country the ability to make more people homeless. This is what they have been advised this bill could cause and it is what it will cause. Those of us who have worked at the front lines with renters and people who have been homeless know the intergenerational hardship and poverty that evictions can create on low-income communities. If you\u2019re living week to week and you face an eviction, your life gets turned upside down, but they wouldn\u2019t know about this because many of these members live now incredibly comfortable lives, and those who may have faced hardship in the past are completely disconnected from it, have turned their eyes away from the streets, and live in an echo chamber disconnected from the communities that are going to be most disproportionately impacted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000883\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThis Government has told us that this bill is about pets. Well, it turns out they can now evict you and your pet as well! This Government can now evict you and your cat, you and your dog\u2014so great, particularly when we consider that the provisions that they have added to allow for people to be with their pets continue adding more barriers for those low-income people. They have also created ways to ensure that landlords can recover your general bond, and now your new pet bond, as they see fit. This will just allow landlords to continue treating housing as a profit rather than an essential human right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000884\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ENo amount of dribble from the members on the other side will make up for the fact that they are literally under-resourcing our public housing entities. They are going to be providing less public housing over the next few years and that will leave communities across the country far more vulnerable to landlords of expensive rentals who will actually put them into more financial hardship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000885\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThe Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill is nothing but an affront to the communities who we should be prioritising and serving. The Minister in the chair earlier kept talking about how we should centre our debate on facts and not opinions, but if we look at the actual facts and the advice and the research that has been provided to grant this bill, it shows that there is absolutely no evidential basis to back that this bill will (a) put downward pressure on rents; and (b) will actually support tenants to have secure tenure. We know this because we have had no-cause evictions before, here. Overseas, we\u2019ve seen how no-cause evictions have been one of the leading causes of homelessness. We know that when someone is homeless, it\u2019s not a simple matter of just putting them back on track into a home. There\u2019s literal long-term harm to your health that comes from being homeless. It traps you in debt, it traps you in poverty, but this Government does not care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ENo-cause evictions will be a blight for many people, and it will be a shameful record from this Government because they\u2019ll start seeing the harm later down the line, and then the very same people that they would have made homeless will be stigmatised. These people will be called \u201Cat-risk tenants\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000887\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280ee793735cb4121834afc5f57247357\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: 90 days\u2014three months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ceddb54aa29e451eba3ec489fab24d2f\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: I hear them saying \u201C90 days\u201D, but again, they forget that, actually, this bill has provisions that allow for landlords to have people leave in less than 90 days. In fact, if a landlord says that they have a family member coming over, they can use 42 days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022951f77ec9479442885c4ad00527c822e\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Some families struggle to get a new rental in 90 days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000890\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226575667ffa3444268e0fe448cbaf55c6\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. And then many people assume\u2014and, again, it just reeks of privilege from the other side to assume that it is so easy for people in our communities to find a suitable rental close to where perhaps their kids go to school, close to where they work in that time. We know that rental properties are facing such massive, massive competition from people across the country that sometimes people go to these viewings, only to feel like they have no chance of getting into the rental property that they\u2019re looking at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000891\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EOnce again, I just look at this Government\u2019s members and see how out of touch they are with renters across the country and how they\u2019re there to serve\u2014quote from the ACT Party\u2014\u201Cthe property investment community\u201D. [Interruption] No amount of fake outrage and crocodile tears from the other side will make up for the very same facts that they are supposed to care about, because the facts speak in our favour. This bill is about creating harm, it\u2019s about creating inequality, and the facts will back and validate our words today later on down the track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022 data-id=\u00222f8c497111384246a0e3d3982e1eaaf5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000892\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f8c497111384246a0e3d3982e1eaaf5\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill, alongside the re-introduction of interest deductibility, are parts of the puzzle that is housing availability and housing affordability. Much has been said about this legislation being used by landlords to kick people out, their tenants out, without reason, when reasonableness dictates that the landlord-tenant relationship is one of accountability and respect, and that this, in general, would not really be happening. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u002214c138e1fcd14bcb9b4c1bc516918e05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214c138e1fcd14bcb9b4c1bc516918e05\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am a member of the Social Services and Community Committee, so I got to see this bill through the journey that we take when we\u2019re scrutinising it at the select committee level. I will say that it was one of the bills that I went home and talked to my family about\u2014not that I often do that\u2014because of the high level of concern that I had for the implications for so many communities, with the provision in here that would mean no-cause termination periods. I really do think that some on the other side of the House are out of touch. I don\u2019t want to make the assertion that all are, but I was watching on TV the speech given by ACT Party member Cameron Luxton earlier, who was saying that this is a day to celebrate and that both landlords and tenants should celebrate this. Well, I can tell you what: over a million people renting in this country will not, because you have just reduced their housing security. There is a lack of real understanding from that side of the House\u2014not all, but from many\u2014on the discrimination and the barriers that some communities and people face to being able to secure housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000894\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI can say for myself that I\u2019ve only owned a home for, I think, the last 15 years, and before that I was renting. I had some classic examples, despite the fact that I was a professional woman, often flatting with other professional women, in getting rental properties. The reality is that being brown played a role in that, and sometimes being a solo mum played a role in that too. I\u2019ll give you one example, one landlord. On paper, I looked good. She rang me up and she said, \u201COh, you look great, yes. When would you want to move in?\u201D And then she said, \u201COh, by the way, is your surname\u2014Sepuloni\u2014Italian?\u201D And I said, \u201CNo, actually, it\u2019s Tongan.\u201D Well, her tone changed completely, and all of a sudden that house was no longer available and that phone was hung up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000895\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWhat that side needs to realise is that when landlords are given the ability to terminate a tenancy in this way, with no cause, that wh\u0101nau or individual has to go on and find another rental, and we happen to have a shortage of rental properties in this country. Now, who are going to be the groups and individuals that struggle to secure their next rental property if the landlord makes the decision to kick them out with no cause? Well, we know who that\u2019s going to be, and, actually, the submissions made really clear who that would be. They did say it would be M\u0101ori, Pacific, and people from ethnic communities; they did say LGBTIQ; and then they also talked about the risk for disabled people, because disabled people, when they get a rental, particularly if they have physical disabilities, find it very difficult to find accessible housing, and so, if booted out, 90 days is not necessarily going to be enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not just us saying it. It\u2019s not just the 97 percent of submitters that are saying it; even the Government\u2019s own documentation that accompanies the bill tells them about these issues and concerns. You can see it in the departmental disclosure statement. You can see it in the regulatory impact statement. We went through this during the committee stage, but the Government has ignored the evidence\u2014not the first time. Please, don\u2019t come to the House and tell us that we should celebrate this, Cameron Luxton, and that tenants will be so happy about the fact that you\u2019ve just made their housing security even less than what it was before, because, actually, over 1 million New Zealanders will not be celebrating this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000897\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWe do have to wonder what is the connection and why it is that this Government is so hell-bent on supporting landlords. Here we are. You\u2019ve got this bill. This part of the bill is the first bit that will go through; everything else is staggered till later. You\u2019re pushing this through on 30 January. We are very mindful of the fact that it\u2019s not just this. You made the decision\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000898\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231cf42f5fdeb490fa075dbe270b047f0\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Government made the decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000899\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb283da725ec47e0bd743771467b3002\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: The Government made the decision. I\u2019ll say it again: the Government made the decision to give $2.9 billion of tax breaks to landlords, as well as making it easier for them to kick tenants out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000900\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m going to put this on the record: the vast majority of landlords are good landlords, and that came up during the select committee. What also came up was that the vast majority of tenants are good tenants, and I think even the property investors group that came through acknowledged that. Why, then, do we shift the power to this particular group and away from the most vulnerable, into the hands of the landlords when there is no evidence to support that it will actually result in more supply in housing or that it will actually result in tenants being better off in any way? In fact, we\u2019re presented with a whole lot of evidence around why this is not a good move by the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000901\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI was slightly embarrassed by some of the speeches given by the Government, across the journey of this bill in this House. There was such a focus on the pet bond. Now, we get that\u2014there were a lot of people that were really positive about that\u2014but, actually, you have to wonder whether or not the Government was choosing to put their entire focus on that as a way of deflecting from the really, really negative, harmful aspect of this bill. We had so many Government Ministers coming to this House telling us about their pets. We know someone\u2019s got a three-legged cat. We know someone\u2019s got a cat and a dog, or two dogs. Here they were, telling us about how important pets were to them and their families and to their communities, and yet they were not able to put the same level of focus on the people impacted by this bill. I tell you what, it\u2019s not positive for the people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000902\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe one part of the pet bonds provision that still is disappointing for me, which came up during the committee stage, was that in the report it\u2019s pointed out that the pet bond is not necessarily going to be of benefit to low-income households and those on benefits. Now, the Ministry of Social Development has a housing support product for those on low incomes and on benefits, which means they can get access to a recoverable grant, which they have to pay back, and they can support them to pay bond, but even with this coming into place, the Government is not moving to extend that recoverable grant so that it could cover the four weeks\u2019 general bond plus the two weeks\u2019 pet bond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000903\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThose people on low incomes, those beneficiaries, they\u2019re not going to be the ones that are allowed to actually take their pets with them, because they won\u2019t be able to afford to pay the pet bond. Yet the Government had an instrument in place that they could have changed to ensure that there was fairness, that, actually, even those on low incomes and on benefits can enjoy the company of their pets and would have the same rights and have access to that like every other person. It seems like a no-brainer, but they just decided that, actually, they were not important, they were not even considered, and nothing would change for them. They will be the only ones that don\u2019t get the opportunity to do this, because it\u2019s just become more expensive for them if they want to take a pet and they need to move.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000904\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI was disappointed the whole way through the select committee that we couldn\u2019t get any evidence from the officials about how long it takes to secure another rental property, as well. We heard the member Rima on the other side saying, \u201CWell, they\u2019ve got 90 days.\u201D Well, we have met so many families who even within three months have not been able to secure another property. As an electorate MP, I have had wh\u0101nau come to my office, saying they are so scared because their tenancy has ended, they are nearly about to move out, they cannot secure another tenancy, and they are on the verge of needing emergency housing. Now, how does that stack up with the Government\u2019s target to reduce emergency accommodation? It again just shows how out of touch that side is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000905\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI am going to end on the Government targets in relation to this, because the issue around housing insecurity, and that churn in terms of housing and having to move on, has other social impacts. The regulatory impact statement makes it clear. It can impact education, it can impact health, and it can impact employment. Here that Government is, saying that they are going to reach all of these amazing targets and improve the education, health, and employment outcomes for New Zealand and New Zealanders, and then they go and pass a bill that is going to put more New Zealanders into precarious housing situations. Now, all the evidence tells them it\u2019s wrong; they still do it. We will not be supporting this bill. We do not understand the way that Government thinks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022 data-id=\u00229c7e5623063b406fab33e41cdd05134e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000906\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c7e5623063b406fab33e41cdd05134e\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E I don\u2019t blame members opposite for putting their headphones in for that last speech from the Hon Carmel Sepuloni. Goodness me, it must be tiring believing everything you say is right despite all evidence to the contrary. Let\u2019s start where she left off with those targets: 70 percent of people moved out emergency accommodation in the last year, 1,600 kids out of emergency accommodation\u2014making it easier to build more homes. I\u2019m proud of what our Government is doing in housing, and I\u2019m proud of this bill too. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b363147a739949e8ae6e308f5bf5a983\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000907\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b363147a739949e8ae6e308f5bf5a983\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. There\u2019s a term that\u2019s come up in recent years\u2014certainly in the time that I\u2019ve been in Parliament\u2014and that term is \u201CGeneration Rent\u201D. Our ancestors wouldn\u2019t believe that this country has now turned to call its present generation \u201CGeneration Rent\u201D. Homeownership numbers have plummeted\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202b94489d29947219524a54066e5f8c8\u0022\u003EDr Hamish Campbell\u003C/span\u003E: What are they?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000909\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022876f30b4a8864864bd27e8c3ee1d7e3b\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014particularly amongst M\u0101ori\u2014particularly amongst M\u0101ori. In fact, it\u2019s just dipped below 30 percent\u201428 percent. There you go: M\u0101ori homeownership. I can tell that member, in the time of my parents, that homeownership rate was just above 80\u00A0percent\u2014just above 80 percent. If that member doesn\u2019t believe it, then he might want to have a look. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201f0e2db62324d5c83e258721a658889\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Take a call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000911\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db03380cedda4aa5a3515d0c796de60a\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Take a call and let\u2019s debate the numbers. But the fact remains, we are calling our tamariki, our young people, people of this generation, \u201CGeneration Rent\u201D. This Government is proud of putting the pressures on this generation and not supporting them into homeownership. At the start of this term, this Government took away the support for first-home buyers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000912\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022680bff42f2794d0daf5666259c621206\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Mate, I rented for a decade and then I bought a house\u2014everyone did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000913\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9938e739e3f4067b3ca4bd33aabce78\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Prove to me, ACT Party, that you didn\u2019t do that. Can the ACT Party prove to this House that the Government did not take away that support for first-home buyers? No, they can\u2019t. Crickets. Silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000914\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI can tell that side of the House a story about a person by the name of Miria Henare. Miria Henare had been looking for a House\u2014a qualified lawyer, a professional, who applied for no\u00A0less than 12 houses to rent. The minute she changed her name to Millie Henry, she got a response from a landlord. Oh my gosh! It\u2019s road to Damascus is all we hear from that side\u00A0of\u00A0the House. This is the reality for Generation Rent. This Government is not doing anything (1) to support those people; or (2) to actually solve the issues that have plagued this country. We heard stories about, \u201COh, well, you\u2019ve got to look after landlords too because if they leave the market then\u2014\u201D. That doesn\u2019t mean the house disappears; it doesn\u2019t. What we\u2019re not hearing from this Government is how they are going to build more houses. How are they going to continue to support our wh\u0101nau, our communities, into owning their first home? That used to be an aspiration for this country; now we\u2019re satisfied with the term \u201CGeneration Rent\u201D, and that\u2019s simply not good enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really disappointed that, at the drop of a hat, tenants can find themselves in a precarious position where they have to leave\u2014at the drop of the hat, no cause, and they\u2019re gone. Once upon a time, we could rely on a strong conversation, a dialogue about people\u2019s situation, caring for those who find themselves in difficult times, both landlord and tenant, but now we\u2019re saying, \u201CNo, it\u2019s OK.\u201D, just at the whim of a landlord or somebody who is in a position of power to simply make it difficult for those who find themselves renting. Now, it is true that we have lots of very good landlords in this country. We also have a lot of great tenants, and that\u2019s to be acknowledged, but those who find themselves most vulnerable in this situation are M\u0101ori, are Pacific, are ethnic minorities, are the elderly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000916\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291b05e494473431ba6c46ef77eb4e9a1\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Disabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000917\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224930df621a8a4585aada294a70cf7bf7\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014are the disabled, and are rural communities, simply because there\u2019s not enough housing supply. This Government has not answered that question or stood up to that challenge. It\u2019s extremely disappointing that we find ourselves here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000918\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI take the words of the Minister during the committee of the whole House, where the Minister would say and admit that this particular legislation and anything that we look at towards tenancies actually needs a serious overhaul. Well, let\u2019s do that and let\u2019s do it in a bipartisan way where we can get support right across the House for such an important matter in our communities. But, no, we\u2019re going to plod along. We\u2019re going to do a bit of change here. We\u2019ll see how it goes after six months or nine months; we\u2019ll look towards the evidence. Well, all we\u2019ve seen from this Government is ignoring evidence, ignoring the facts, and ignoring statistics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000919\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s disappointing to be in here again. I\u2019ve been here 11 years\u2014not as long as others; I won\u2019t name anyone\u2014but in that time, we have debated this exact matter time after time after time after time. It\u2019s time we got it right so that we can fix the term \u201CGeneration Rent\u201D and call it \u201CGeneration Homeowner\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022 data-id=\u002297dae05157a14003b57d6c918d6b06e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000920\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297dae05157a14003b57d6c918d6b06e8\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to speak in favour of this bill. I think there\u2019s been a number of provisions laid out\u2014sensible, pro-tenant changes to the Residential Tenancies Act, which, along with the introduction of interest deductibility, will increase the supply of rental housing and make landlords more willing to enter into arrangements. This is going to be a good bill for tenants and for the rental supply in New Zealand, and I support this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u002275e3bf67191446b7a1b80f0ae656a8cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000921\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275e3bf67191446b7a1b80f0ae656a8cc\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E I have particular personal investment in this bill because, during our last couple of years in Opposition, I worked hard as the housing spokesperson for Labour to develop a policy that would give renters in this country more rights and more security of tenure, and as housing Minister, I oversaw the development of the legislation and its passage through the House of the provisions in the law that this bill takes away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000922\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EFor a long, long time in this country, politicians in this Parliament never gave a moment\u2019s notice or thought to the life and the situation of renters in this country. Whenever housing was discussed, it was always in the context of either State housing or homeownership, but something\u2019s changed over the last generation in this country, and, now, nearly 40 percent of our people in this country rent. Those people who rent are disproportionately the young, the poor, female, M\u0101ori, Pacific, and new migrant communities. There is a direct correlation between people who have power in this country and people who don\u2019t have power, and homeownership and people who rent. If we care about fairness, if we care about social justice in this country, we have to take the rights and the security of renters seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000923\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ENow, there is abundant literature internationally and here in New Zealand that shows conclusively that security of tenure is one of the most important things that determines the wellbeing\u2014the physical, social, and mental wellbeing\u2014of our people. Without security of tenure, it is very, very hard to live a decent, dignified life, to raise children, to stay healthy, and to do the things that we all aspire to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000924\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe rules in the Residential Tenancy Act make a really big difference. If you can be kicked out, even theoretically, for no reason at all, it changes the mind-set of the renter, and it changes the mind-set of the landlord. If you live with the kind of insecurity, daily, that you can be turfed out of your home, the place where your family lives, for no reason, you are much less likely to ever raise a problem with the landlord or get into any kind of dispute or argument, regardless of the rights or wrongs of it or what the law says.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWhen the market is hot\u2014and it often is in our highly cyclical property market\u2014properties change hands frequently as landlords and investors cash up and buy another property. The human cost of that is that, all over the suburbs and towns of this country, low-income families are being turfed out of their homes. In the early teens\u2014early 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015\u2014when the market was extremely hot in New Zealand, it was not uncommon for young families to be moving house every year or even more frequently. Now, the cost, the sheer cost to their health and wellbeing, let alone the wellbeing of the kids who are then being shunted across the city from one school to another. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000926\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ENow, the law that we passed in 2018 gave renters a little bit more security. It pushed out the notice periods, and it said that the landlord could not get rid of a tenant for no reason at all. They could still terminate the tenancy if they were selling the house, if they were renovating it, if their family were moving back in, and if they wanted to sell it\u2014the provisions still applied. If a tenant engages in antisocial behaviour, the landlord can go to the Tenancy Tribunal. It\u2019s not like a European situation where, in Germany, people literally have tenancy for life. Not at all. Nothing like that. The law gave them a little bit more security.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000927\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EIt was part of a package of measures giving renters more rights and security, introducing standards for healthy homes. In rental properties, it became compulsory for landlords to have insulation and basic measures to stop cold, damp homes making renters sick. We got rid of letting fees. We embarked on a massive programme of State house building. We banned foreign buyers from buying existing properties, and we dismantled the tax breaks that, for so long, had incentivised a highly speculative real estate economy based on the entrenched expectation of tax-free capital gain. We did all that to make housing warm and dry and healthy, to make renters more secure, and to bring down the cost of rental housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000928\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m sad that the right-wing parties basically have made a fetish, a political fetish, out of their support for property investors. They are willing to advance the economic and financial interests of one class of investors, residential rental property investors, at the expense of nearly 40 percent of the population. They are willing to sell renters, the young, female, low-income, ethnic-minority communities\u2014they are willing to sell them down the river and compromise their quality of life and their life chances in order to strengthen the economic position and the financial interests of property investors. Frankly, for people who should be in this House because they want to do something that\u2019s good for our people in this country and good for New Zealand, I find that absolutely appalling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000929\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWe always hear in this debate from the National Party benches that it\u2019s unnecessary to put regulations and rules on\u2014it\u2019s often employers but, in this case, it\u2019s landlords and property investors, because they\u2019re good people and they want to do the right thing and, of course, they\u2019re reasonable and they would only ever throw out a bad tenant. Oh my God! If I had to hear that one more time! It completely denies reason. It\u2019s facile. It\u2019s infantile. We have rules and we have regulations to protect people, to make sure that the market works properly and delivers fair outcomes for everybody.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000930\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe members on that side of the House would rather strip away the negotiating power and the protections of people who they want to pretend have equal power to landlords\u2014that people who are shelling out two-thirds of their weekly income to put a roof over their heads are the equals of people who might own three, four, five, six, seven, or eight properties, and that somehow it\u2019s an equal relationship. That is utter nonsense, and I\u2019m amazed that the members on that side of the House are willing to stand up and make that argument, with a straight face.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000931\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EOur country does face a serious problem, and if you look at a number of our youngest and best and brightest who are currently heading to Australia and further afield because they do not have hope that they can get ahead in New Zealand, the sheer number of people leaving is a problem. Why are they leaving? They cannot get ahead, because of low wages and high housing costs. It\u2019s now been like that for more than a generation, and we have to tackle this problem. Governments these days spend all of their time and money fixing up the social mess caused by insecure work and insecure, expensive housing, but that side of the House seems completely unwilling to do anything about it. They don\u2019t want to raise wages. They don\u2019t want to reduce housing costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000932\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThis bill will undermine the negotiating position of renters. It puts them in an even more precarious position. It gives the lie to everything that they\u2019ve said on that side of the House about wanting to improve the position of renters. We need to do something about housing, and I\u2019m pleased to say that this Government and the Minister Chris Bishop is at least willing to do something about planning reform, about zoning reform, but on every other aspect of housing policy\u2014whether it\u2019s the rights of renters, building State housing, every other aspect\u2014that Government is taking this country backwards. It will only drive more and more young New Zealanders overseas, because they regard this country as being backwards. It\u2019s going backwards at a greater and greater speed because of this Government. This bill, which takes away the rights of renters, makes them more insecure and more precarious, will make life worse for between 35 and 40 percent of this country\u2019s population. Why? So that the National Party can continue to privilege the rights of property investors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae1b1b6686ac4d1eaa0230fdfc98d448\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae1b1b6686ac4d1eaa0230fdfc98d448\u0022\u003EDr HAMISH CAMPBELL (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I rise in support of the Residential Tenancy Amendment Bill. As we\u2019ve heard, the other side of the House did so much for renters\u2014$175 a week increase in rent under the previous Government. Is that doing things for tenants? No, it is not. This bill helps balance the approach between tenants and landlords, because it is a relationship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000934\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003ENow, let\u2019s just have a look at some of the data which they\u2019re claiming isn\u2019t on our side. Data from TradeMe shows an increase of 26 percent of new rental listing in the recent period. Realestateagent.co.nz\u2014you have Google; you can check these numbers yourself\u2014reported a 40 percent increase in rental stock in the last quarter. That is what good legislation does: it helps renters. That\u2019s why this bill is going to add to that. Therefore, I support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227474e5d07c5e4d79aa17661b6b1cc407\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000935\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000936\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002279e97b22b9ad4735a313333a044aa1f0\u0022\u003ESmokefree Environments and Regulated Products Amendment Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000937\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229a6acb8f8c7e4b7ea4e1bb299f9671cf\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000938\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 21 November. \u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022 data-id=\u00224b2cf268b3364b26b83b126f74d4f52b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000939\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b2cf268b3364b26b83b126f74d4f52b\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to take a call on this. While we are supporting in principle this legislation, knowing that it will tighten up rules around the sale of vapes and looking to protect our young people from smoking impact\u2014particularly for the vapes\u2014we know that there is still a gap in terms of the data for the stores, the shops, and the retailers who sell within our communities, whether they\u2019re specialists or general. Further, in terms of the way in which we are going to change both the fines and the infringements, it\u2019s good to see that we are going to lift the bar for the businesses that we do find are breaching the law. One of the issues that we have, though, is the resourcing for the machinery behind the legislation. Do we have enough kaimahi to do the work, because enforcement is important, and who are the safeguards in our communities? Have we fuelled our waka enough\u2014that\u2019s been a question that we\u2019ve continued to ask as a select committee to get the real numbers of who are the staff on the ground in terms of enforcement, and the picture is not clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003ENow, we sat and we heard submissions from the sector, we heard submissions from those who are in industry, and we heard a lot from families and those who are impacted\u2014for example, our Breakfree kids and the m\u0101m\u0101s who continue to follow us and ensure that we know the grassroots impact of vaping on our young people\u2014and we cannot lose sight of the impact of this knowing that it\u2019s like a ripple effect. Whether it\u2019s an entry into vaping, then they move into smoking, and aha r\u0101nei aha r\u0101nei [etc., etc.], the impact continues on. It is trying to prevent before we even get to the point of having to block the sale to our youth. Acknowledging The Hashtags and the work that they did in presenting a petition that focused on the restriction of the sale of vaping products to under-18-year-olds, and then focusing on the proximity and the density, I think this legislation is absolutely addressing some of what The Hashtags brought to the House in their petition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EOf course, when we think about marae, we think about schools, we think about early childhood, and we think about communities, because if it\u2019s about where young people congregate, they congregate in sports clubs, they congregate in playgrounds, and they walk the streets. How do we create the smoke-free environment that we all look for? Referring back to some of what we received as the Health Committee and the density of some of the stores in our communities, we saw that there is a large number in lower socio-economic communities, and that\u2019s something that needs to be addressed. Councils came into the submission process and said, \u201CHey, we are seeking some tools to be able to regulate in local government so that we can control what is established within our community.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000942\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EIf we think about alcohol, we think about fast food, we think about pokie machines, and we think about smoking, it\u2019s almost like a happy four of impact\u2014acknowledging that the Minister launched her smoke-free action plan the other week but also taking heed from the sector, who clearly said to us, \u201CWhere are the population-based approaches and the focus on those who are most impacted?\u201D That is te iwi M\u0101ori. We can\u2019t forget that some 14.7 to 14.9 percent of our young people are vaping, and we have 4,500-odd people a year in New Zealand who die from tobacco-related illnesses. In reviewing and reflecting on the announcement of the new smoke-free action plan 2025, where do M\u0101ori fit and where do Pasifika fit in terms of population-based approaches to access to that cessation but also in terms of the focus of the next steps moving forward\u2014and young people are essential in this space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000943\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EI just want to raise that there are still stores selling disposables in our community right now. I don\u2019t know how many enforcement officers are on the ground and who are actually watching what\u2019s going on, because our workforce is stressed, and we are just hearing from a few kaimahi who share that it\u2019s just one of a number of things that they monitor. When you\u2019re a kaimahi with a broad range of compliance issues that you have to monitor, tobacco is just one of them, and when we think about our low socio-economic communities, there\u2019s a number of stores which pepper-pot across these spaces. Our compliance officers are important, but it is also access to cessation support, it\u2019s the ability to provide those smoke-free environments that are so essential, and then the ability to grow community action in that space. The compliance is one thing; it\u2019s cessation support, and we don\u2019t have enough in schools for young people. In fact, we don\u2019t even have really anything for vapes right now. It\u2019s all focused on cigarettes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000944\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EWhat are the next steps? We heard of the Health Advisory and Regulatory Platform programme, which is targeted in schools, but where else are we going to get the support that we need nationally for young people to quit?  We\u2019ve got compliance, where we\u2019ve got issues. We\u2019ve got cessation support, which is absolutely needed for vapes, because that is a gap right now. Cessation providers are saying that they are tobacco-focused, but it\u2019s actually the vapes that are coming through really strongly, so how can we do that together? Then also we\u2019re thinking about building that awareness, and then, of course, there is the action around smoke-free environments, and may I lament the smoke-free generation. That smoke-free generation born in 2009\u2014my own daughter included, and many mokopuna across the country\u2014will not benefit to be that smoke-free generation, because the law was changed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000945\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to pay tribute to the claimants at the Waitangi Tribunal who went forward and said no. We need to go back. We need to go back\u2014back to the future\u2014to what we did in the past, which is our Smoke-free Environments Act. These claimants, Auntie Sue Taylor, Hone Harawira, Shane Bradbrook, and Dr Amohia Boulton have their Smokefree Aotearoa claim, and this claim is live right now because they recognise the work that was done before us to lay the foundations of a Te Tiriti - based smoke-free action plan, of which this is one small part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000946\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EThis is one small part, but we need to do more. In sharing this with you, it\u2019s the next steps, it\u2019s broadening the focus, and it\u2019s also focusing on those populations who need the support, because while we have seen, for instance, a drop in youth vaping and smoking, which we have had ASH - Action for Smokefree 2025 report on, it\u2019s still M\u0101ori that are up there, and while there may be drops occurring, it is still M\u0101ori who are most impacted and it is still M\u0101ori who die the most. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000947\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EIn closing, and acknowledging the work of those before me and acknowledging the importance of our having a smoke-free Aotearoa and going back to 2021, with that action plan that went out, now we have the new plan. I can\u2019t really see M\u0101ori and Pasifika in there. The sector has already told the Minister that. It\u2019s been very public in the way that it\u2019s come out and said that it\u2019s a bit beige\u2014it\u2019s a bit beige; it\u2019s not really showing us the road map for addressing smoking-related harm and vaping-related harm to M\u0101ori\u2014but, hey, we\u2019re moving forward. It\u2019s different, but we are moving forward slightly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000948\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EFor that, we are acknowledging the work of the Health Committee and all those who submitted on this legislation, despite it being a bit tight and, of course, truncated, as usual. Kia ora t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022 data-id=\u00223e2dbd797d0844739884c0eeb66d8456\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000949\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e2dbd797d0844739884c0eeb66d8456\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like to just firstly congratulate Minister Casey Costello on the action she\u2019s taking and the bill she has brought to the House to curb the scourge of youth vaping, which we have heard so much about in the Health Committee. H\u016Bhana Lyndon, the previous Greens spokesperson, told us of the smoke-free enforcement officers. That is also of concern: the under-action or under-resourcing, or whatever is going on there. We need to do more in the way of enforcement in that regard. I support this bill. I think it\u2019s going to be a good bill. Thank you very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3327222d5814841a3e1d64cb92f5f0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000950\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3327222d5814841a3e1d64cb92f5f0b\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I think this is a positive bill to address the harm that youth vaping is causing. There are number of parts to that, including banning disposables, visibility limits, and increasing the fines. I do want to thank the members of the Health Committee for their work on this bill. There were several changes made when it came to us, and I would like to thank everyone for their assistance in getting it to where it is today. There is more work to do, and I know that the Minister has acknowledged that. She did that when she came to the committee. This is a big issue that we need to tackle, and I\u2019d like to see that we have support from around the House on this. I support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd4c76185aa04938b485699e9b468410\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000951\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd4c76185aa04938b485699e9b468410\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a five-minute, split call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6beac8128994a42bf93569c43549576\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000952\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6beac8128994a42bf93569c43549576\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. Thank you. I stand to speak to this bill, and I will take my whole time. It\u2019s actually really sad to see that others across the floor couldn\u2019t be bothered. The reality is that there are changes, but we are seeing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202ddc15a582d4a449e1db596f477c739\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s nice to have you here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000954\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd31393afcac4cbdbf59c4d090c483ab\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014when you\u2019re ready\u2014the attitude that we have towards an issue that is major for M\u0101ori. It\u2019s an issue that is major for M\u0101ori, which is why it has had massive M\u0101ori leadership championing it. The whole whakapapa for Smokefree Aotearoa came from those leaders, who were really proud to come up with initiatives that were actually not about playing tactfully into the hands of the tobacco companies, but actually being able to end the tobacco industry, to end smoking, and to end, really, what is the greatest preventable cause of M\u0101ori deaths. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000955\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EWhat we have is the greatest preventable cause of things that are impacting and harming M\u0101ori lives. When we go back to this and talk about what it is and how our M\u0101ori leaders who champion the vision of Smokefree Aotearoa, the vision of Tupeka kore Aotearoa\u2014and we\u2019re really proud to hear our niece in Te P\u0101ti K\u0101k\u0101riki mention our long-term advocates. My daughter was one of the first from the k\u014Dhanga generation and first in the whare kura kaupapa generation, where we were proud to do everything as smoke-free\u2014auahi kore. There was no \u201Cauahi half-pie, ka pai\u201D. We had a full intention of making sure that the scourge of this preventable death was never ever going to be part of their future. At everything we did\u2014our sports, \u201CAuahi kore\u201D flags were everywhere; our kapa haka, \u201CAuahi kore\u201D flags were everywhere. When you are to talk to my child\u2019s generation, that was the vision. That was everything intended\u2014not vaping, not all these \u201Chalf-pie, ka pai\u201D solutions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000956\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really sad to be here today, and I understand the challenges on this particular bill, but what we have is we\u2019ve seen protests and petitions with over 50,000 signatures, open letters, pleas from over the country, and evidence that indicates that their own voters\u2014yours included\u2014did not want to see anything that compromised the targets, that compromised the messaging, or that compromised the intention of stopping smoking and the tobacco industry in Aotearoa. It is really hard to swallow, because National actually pledged this in 2011, and National actually used to fund and help our kura kaupapa and our k\u014Dhanga reo to get that messaging across. National has clearly reneged on that commitment and it feels like this is because they\u2019re prioritising tax cuts over the wellbeing of our people, and it does feel like that on the ground.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000957\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve got our Wai claim, and, again, in the era when National was in Government, the Wai 2575 claim identified deficiencies in primary healthcare. The issues that we have to prevent\u2014the diseases and the illnesses that come from smoking\u2014are a major part of what my generation fought for to make sure we didn\u2019t have to be in this hand and in this space again. When we look at this bill and the impact that smoking has and the fact that, for M\u0101ori, it\u2019s three times higher than for non-M\u0101ori, it is, I guess, a sad state for us, and I\u2019ll say this again, to have to be departing from where those leaders who were looking for a smoke-free environment, who were the likes of Hone Harawira, who, in his time here\u2014in fact, when Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori were in Government with National\u2014was making sure that there was an urgent call to action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000958\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EOn that note, we will stand and leave that with us. We wish that this Government would honour Te Tiriti and use its influence and its power to stop unnecessary deaths, and to actually go the full hog and leave us in a situation where we can show our mokopuna that we did all we could do to get rid of this sector and get rid of the tobacco industry, and that, instead of having amendments, we actually just stopped and agreed to having a smoke-free environment. Kia ora r\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022f24a54db0a3242838715292d45cdb22f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f24a54db0a3242838715292d45cdb22f\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. As the previous speaker from Te P\u0101ti K\u0101k\u0101riki, H\u016Bhana Lyndon, said, we do support this bill because in some small way, it is a small step towards the right direction, but\u2014there are no other ways to say this\u2014overall, this bill, in terms of what it could achieve, is disappointing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EIn many ways, this bill provides a smokescreen for some of the other more concerning things we are seeing towards our smoke-free targets\u2014things around heated tobacco products, for example. When it comes to vaping in particular, one of the biggest problems that we\u2019re trying to solve with this is the number of specialist retailers when it comes to vaping products. This bill makes some attempt in reducing this, but, to be honest, we simply do not have enough data in Aotearoa. We simply do not know the full extent in terms of how many shops that are not specialist vaping stores\u2014dairies, supermarkets, or otherwise\u2014that actually do sell vaping products, or what those impacts are going to be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000961\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThere are two specific areas I would like to address: one, we have heard from multiple people in this House that vaping is a particular issue for young people. In clause 12, there are certain provisions around the advertisement or publication on an internet site of a link when it comes to the promotion of vaping products, but one of the questions we asked the Minister during the committee stage was whether we know how many young people get sucked into an advertisement from a website by looking at a banner at the top or bottom of a website. Most of the people that are going to get sucked into vaping will be enticed by vaping through social media, so if we really want to have a bold approach to reducing vaping in Aotearoa among young people, why are we not addressing it from a social media perspective and from a media influencer perspective in order to cut down on the number of young people who are enticed by the promotion of vaping through social media? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThere is another concern that I would like to address. When we were going through this bill, we thought, \u201CWhy is this bill so limited to simply disposable vaping products and not reusable and refillable vaping devices? Surely, if you want to do something, let\u2019s just ban it full stop. Other countries have done that. We know that Singapore does it.\u201D\u2014until we saw the regulatory impact statement. In paragraph 69 of Banning disposable vaping products and increasing penalties for sales to minors, it specifically talks about Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade advice that anything harsher than simply banning disposable products is going to put us at odds with our international trading partners and, potentially, international companies such as Phillip Morris. This is a huge issue in terms of our trade obligations, as well. We are putting our young people at risk purely because we may have to provide arguments or we may be challenged by international trading partners, and yet we are beholden to international trading partners. That is a genuine concern about the scope of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000963\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EWhile, again, the Green Party supports this bill, overall, this bill is uninspired. It is weak, and it does lack that bold vision that we would like to see as a step towards having a smoke-free Aotearoa. With that, we will support it, but we would really like to have seen more. Thank you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6771562bfac43e3aaf301348e96c040\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000964\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6771562bfac43e3aaf301348e96c040\u0022\u003EDr HAMISH CAMPBELL (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E Excellent\u2014as I\u2019ve sat here, I was just wondering whether some of the other side of the House have read this bill. We\u2019ve heard about having a smoke-free generation and everything like this. This bill is about youth vaping\u2014it\u2019s very clearly about youth vaping. Vaping has actually proven to be an effective tool for those trying to stop smoking, and yet the rise in youth vaping is very alarming. That\u2019s what this bill is here to address, and we\u2019re addressing it head on, including banning disposable vapes, imposing stricter penalties for selling to minors, restricting the display of vaping products, and limiting the sales from vape stores. This is a very good bill, and I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u00229f78db0664e9463988c7954027366647\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000965\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f78db0664e9463988c7954027366647\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and make a contribution on this bill and to have worked with colleagues in the Health Committee diligently on this bill. All parties supported this bill through the select committee process, so it was good to have the opportunity to make what we all accept is a positive difference, and it\u2019s important to acknowledge the work of so many colleagues in hearing the submissions on this and taking the matter seriously. Members will know that the Health Committee also has a briefing on vaping that it is reporting on, and on the Health Committee, we take care to incorporate a diverse range of views and respect each other\u2019s differences. We always abide by the Standing Orders and, just generally, it\u2019s all run like a pretty tight ship. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000966\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EAt the Health Committee\u2014it may interest members of the House\u2014we also had our annual review recently, and we\u2019re grateful for the Ministers\u2019 attendance at that. The Health Committee was visited by all of its relevant Ministers, and I think that\u2019s a really positive thing for the scrutiny of our portfolios in this Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000967\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EMinister Casey Costello made remarks that in her view, youth vaping rates should be zero in New Zealand, and that\u2019s an ambitious and laudable aim, because we\u2019ve heard extensively on the select committee in relation to this bill and others that youth vaping is harmful. It\u2019s harmful in terms of it primarily being an addiction: an addiction that gets young people hooked on a commercial product, an addiction that disrupts their ability to sleep, sometimes, and their ability to participate in education, and an addiction that just means you don\u2019t get to make all of your decisions because a substance is making them for you. We also heard about the other impacts, potentially, on mental health and on physical health as well, although that evidence, of course, continues to emerge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000968\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EWhile my colleague who spoke before me is correct that vaping is a useful tool for people to quit smoking, it is not at all something we want young people to take up in and of itself. The question we have to ask about this bill and the Minister\u2019s aim to get vaping rates to zero percent for young people is: does it go far enough? Vaping rates in New Zealand are incredibly high. For young people, it is almost double what it is in comparable jurisdictions, like the United Kingdom. There are marked inequalities in young people\u2019s vaping rates. It\u2019s much higher\u2014as high as 20 percent or more\u2014for some M\u0101ori and Pacific communities. We need to see those numbers come down. Once again, the question for this bill is: will it get us to zero? There\u2019s no therapeutic role for vaping in a generation that barely smokes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000969\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EWhat does this bill do? Well, it does, broadly, four things. It makes a ban on disposable vapes, which is useful because mostly young people smoke disposable vapes; there are proximity restrictions in this bill so that new vape stores cannot take up close to schools and marae and early childhood education centres; there\u2019s a change to the visibility of vapes in the front of vape stores, meaning that you cannot look through the window and see the product; and there\u2019s also an increase in fines. That last intervention, I think, is a useful one because the level of fines determines the likelihood of the Ministry of Health taking prosecutions on these matters, and it is our view that the ministry has been far too slow to take those prosecutions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000970\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EAll in all, these are sensible measures that we support, but do they go far enough to get to zero? If you look at those four, I think, like many submitters, the answer you\u2019ll reach is probably no. When you think about a young person\u2014a teenager\u2014does walking 300 metres present a sufficient barrier to them purchasing a vape? Now, sometimes there is a young person in my household who might not make the 5-metre walk from the couch to the fridge and might ask someone else to do that for them. However, I think the majority of young people will be able to overcome the 300-metre barrier. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000971\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003ENow, the matter of disposable vapes is also very helpful, but is it enough to get you to zero, or near that? No, because not all young people use only disposable vapes. The increase in fines\u2014well, that might tip the calculus for what we know are some of the unethical vendors in New Zealand who do sell to young people. We see in countless controlled-purchase operations that there are people selling to under-age consumers, and yet that is likely to impact at the margins and there\u2019s still social supply of vapes. The visibility of vapes at the shop fronts\u2014once again, it\u2019s a helpful measure\u2014but let\u2019s face it, the entire shop front is the ad for the vape store. Those big neon signs that seem to dominate many small towns on their main street are actually the ads for the product itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000972\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EIn my view, it\u2019s reasonable that we agree with many of the submitters who said that this bill will not get us to zero and will not address the scale of the public health problem that we have. That\u2019s why I support many of the measures that they mentioned\u2014and they bear repeating\u2014that could show where this bill could go further, and it was unfortunate that they were ruled out of scope for the submissions and were not reported on adequately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000973\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThere were concerns about the number of vape stores; not just where they go\u2014as we\u2019ll deal to with the proximity restrictions\u2014but the number overall. There have been large increases. We have now as many vape stores as we had tobacco stores, and there are seven times more vape stores in the poorest neighbourhoods than in the richer neighbourhoods. That shows why it is that we have these inequalities\u2014it is because of deliberate targeting by the sellers of these products at the poorest people. Submitters suggested the options for a sinking lid on the number of products, for plain packaging, for more education, for limits on the amount of nicotine, and also for the opportunity to futureproof the Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000974\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003ETo summarise, these products were developed as a form of new product for a tobacco industry that knows it\u2019s on the way out. New Zealand does not owe the tobacco industry a transition plan, and certainly not at the expense of its youth. I commend the measures in this bill to the House, but we can do so much more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00223bff07a0458144b9a51051418cb9d0b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bff07a0458144b9a51051418cb9d0b2\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The time has come for me to suspend for the dinner break. The House will resume at 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000976\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3d7deae29ec4f9aafe667dd9f79f37d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000977\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3d7deae29ec4f9aafe667dd9f79f37d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House is resumed. When we adjourned for the dinner break, we were discussing the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products Amendment Bill (No 2). We were up to call No. 9, which, I understand, is Carlos Cheung.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022 data-id=\u00228c2f24a1af074a0e88ecce4cce45d1a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000978\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c2f24a1af074a0e88ecce4cce45d1a5\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you. Vaping causes major health issues, especially youth vaping. After hearing so many heartbreaking stories, finally, today is a great day for all the parents, a great day for all the school principals and teachers, and a great day for Mount Roskill because, finally, we have a Government that is willing to crack down on youth vaping. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u00226ccb0adaa51b40dc82904a83c387b7d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000979\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ccb0adaa51b40dc82904a83c387b7d3\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you, and I would\u2019ve assumed that Carlos Cheung, the gentleman who just took his seat, would\u2019ve had a little bit more to say if he was as requisitely proud of this Government\u2019s actions as he just stated that he was. Nevertheless, on this side of the House, as has been said, we reluctantly support this bill in the spirit of it being better than nothing and in the spirit of it being a bit of a once-over-lightly sort of attack on youth vaping, but that shouldn\u2019t discount the fact that we do have some genuine concerns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000980\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EObviously, one of the main concerns we have is about the really, really obvious density of vape stores that\u2019s concentrated in low-income communities. If this Government was actually serious about meaningfully addressing some of those issues, it would have been good to have seen that there was some type of sinking lid policy and that there was any type of initiative to really tackle what is a really inequitable impact on youth vaping in particular communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000981\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWe know also that the lack of enforcement funding is a real issue with this particular bill. The bill raises penalties, for instance, for illegal sales to minors, but it fails to allocate adequate funding for enforcement. It really hasn\u2019t got the requisite teeth to do what it says is written on the tin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000982\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWe also think there\u2019s a missed opportunity for much more comprehensive regulation, and, as I\u2019ve said, the concentration that is really exacerbated by easy accessibility in low socio-economic areas is not anecdotal. We know that the University of Canterbury found that there were seven times more vape stores in those neighbourhoods with lower incomes than others. It is predatory, and let\u2019s not pretend that it isn\u2019t. This is a predatory market, and I think that it would have been much better and we would\u2019ve received this bill much better if we thought the Associate Minister of Health had paid requisite attention and had really put the heft of the Government behind trying to do something positive in that direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000983\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWe also think that the bill lacks provisions to address what will be emerging vape technologies. We know this will be somewhat of an arms race\u2014you know, this is something that\u2019s going to move really quickly. There are the marketing tactics and all of the things that go along with a predatory market that\u2019s cheap, that\u2019s pop-up, and that\u2019s designed to get people buying products on impulse and through addiction that deserved a little bit more regulation than what is occurring here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EEssentially, just to sum up, as my colleagues have said throughout this debate, we think it\u2019s a missed opportunity, which is a shame. We think it\u2019s actually quite baffling that despite those alarming youth rates, the Minister has delivered a bill that, essentially, just scratches the surface. We think, therefore, that the Minister has had a little bit of selective hearing in so far as which aspects of youth vaping the Minister has chosen to pay attention to and which seems to have sort of gone in one ear and completely slipped out the other. We think that an enforcement plan without enforcement, essentially, is exactly what it says: it\u2019s an enforcement plan without enforcement. It may sound good and it may alleviate some conscience or give people the opportunity to pat themselves on the back, but if it doesn\u2019t actually do what it\u2019s supposed to do and you don\u2019t resource the enforcement aspect of this, then it doesn\u2019t really work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000985\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EImportantly, we also think that a real opportunity was here, and there\u2019s been plenty of time to have done the work and put the bill together to make sure that it was futureproofed before\u2014you know, this bill, by the time it has passed, is, essentially, going to be left in the past. A failure to account for the fact that emerging products and the type of market that we\u2019re dealing with will always be one step ahead is a missed opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000986\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWe will support the bill. We do think that it is, essentially, kicking the can down the road. It is better than nothing\u2014slightly\u2014and I\u2019m sure I will have another colleague offer some more evidence in that direction. For this session, we are happy to say that, with huge reserve\u2014and we will be watching what happens in the implementation of this bill\u2014we will support the bill at this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6060106c6694d3db79cb24c2270e1a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000987\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6060106c6694d3db79cb24c2270e1a5\u0022\u003EGREG FLEMING (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E Kua p\u0101nuitia te k\u014Drero e p\u0101 ana ng\u0101 taipitopito o t\u0113nei pire, n\u0101 reira he poto t\u014Dku t\u0101piri ki t\u0113nei k\u014Drero. Ka tautoko ana au t\u0113nei pire ki te Whare. T\u0113n\u0101 koe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000988\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003E[The details of this bill have been read out, and so I don\u2019t have much to add. I support this bill to the House. Thank you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022 data-id=\u0022d386e5d1476f458fbab81ad1073a4abb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000989\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d386e5d1476f458fbab81ad1073a4abb\u0022\u003EREUBEN DAVIDSON (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s good to be able to stand up and take a call on the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products Amendment Bill (No 2). During an earlier speech by my colleague, just about two speeches back, a member from the other side of the House said, \u201CWhat did you do in the last six years?\u201D, and I thought that that was a really good question. The answer is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6a382889ecc4c68ad69dde1065543eb\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: What did you do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000991\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229243458b13f147cf98e3f0575ac5c312\u0022\u003EREUBEN DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I\u2019ve got 10 minutes; I can wait\u2014Labour led the world in the last six years. That\u2019s what we did. [Interruption] Hold the applause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000992\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244af53b677c44f09886a1680ddc6013a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK, interjections are fine, but that\u2019s a barrage, and now I can\u2019t\u00A0hear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000993\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ec1589479d74dd99fab989c7fd2f5dd\u0022\u003EREUBEN DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: We wouldn\u2019t want to deprive you of this speech, Madam Speaker, because Labour led the world. Labour had a plan. That plan was the Auahi Kore Aotearoa Mahere Rautaki 2025, the Smokefree 2025 Action Plan. I\u2019m not surprised that the other side doesn\u2019t want to hear this, because this was about ensuring that young people never start smoking. It was about reducing the nicotine in carcinogenic tobacco products and it was about limiting the number of shops that can sell cigarettes. [Interruption] All that energy that was going to be burnt off at the ball is being burnt off in the House tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000994\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003ENow, these changes weren\u2019t going to come into effect immediately. We were going to give retailers time to transition to a new business model, but we knew that by establishing a smoke-free generation, we were making it clear to New Zealanders that we\u2019d have a smoke-free future, and so many New Zealanders were proud of that. This coalition Government wasted no time in letting that go up in smoke against expert advice and against very, very strong public opinion, because New Zealanders overwhelmingly support keeping smoke-free\u00A0legislation. Health Coalition Aotearoa and the University of Otago\u2019s tobacco research group, ASPIRE, found that 67 percent of respondents either strongly supported or supported keeping the laws, and a petition was signed by than 46,000 people\u201446,000 people\u2014who wanted to stop any changes. That petition was handed over to Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000995\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003EThe really interesting bit that the other side might want to hear is that more than half of National voters supported retaining the legislation\u2014think on that\u2014and the reason that people supported the legislation was because it saved lives. Globally, it\u2019s estimated to be 1.2 million lives that legislation like this could save if Governments around the world were as brave as we were to roll it out and not as\u2014I\u2019m not sure of the word\u2014that this Government has been; as gutless as this Government has been in winding it back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000996\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003EIt would be remiss of me as our spokesperson on statistics not to also point out that our smoking rates have more than halved since the 2013 census, and that\u2019s a statistic that we can be very, very proud of\u2014halved since 2013. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000997\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc5344be8ee94e79bc54393450d9454f\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Well done, John Key; well done, Tariana Turia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000998\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022435356bc34944289a4dc97dfd2dcbadb\u0022\u003EREUBEN DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Whilst you might want to congratulate yourself on the other side of the House, Mr Brewer, I challenge you to check the numbers in three years\u2019 time, because they will have gone back up. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817000999\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022226ce29e27a94de2b50b2a2c448f696f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Shh! Too loud\u2014not the speaker; just the crowd.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001000\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a50086787104605a10d45322cd6d1f7\u0022\u003EREUBEN DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Now, I want to take a moment to look at the local situation in the mighty Christchurch East. At the Lynwood Avenue and Buckleys Road corner by Eastgate, we have got so many vape stores, and there is not a week that goes by that I don\u2019t get people saying to me that there are too many vape stores in this part of the city. In the New Brighton Mall, we\u2019ve got too many vape stores, and there is not a week that goes by that someone doesn\u2019t call me and say that there are too many vape stores in this community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003EIn South New Brighton, only just 300 metres away from our local school; less than 100\u00A0metres away from our preschool; on the doorstep of our community facility, the Bridge Hub; and over the road from Common Ground, which is a community space often full of kids and families enjoying time together, we have got a vape store, right on that community\u2019s doorstep\u2014right on that community\u2019s doorstep\u2014and I know that these issues are not just restrained to the mighty Christchurch East. I know that they happen across Christchurch, I know that they happen in Woolston in my colleague\u2019s electorate, and I know that they happen right across Aotearoa New Zealand. Too many vape stores. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003ENow, if you believe that New Zealand deserves a smoke-free future, and I do and I would find it hard to find anyone in their right mind who would disagree with that statement\u2014although judging from some of the interjections tonight, there may be members on the other side of the House who quite like the idea, for whatever reason\u2014this select committee and this bill had so many submissions and so many opportunities to address the very, very real concerns about the rates of vaping and youth vaping happening in our communities, and those opportunities were missed. We know that for young people in New Zealand, vaping rates are over 17 percent, and when you compare that globally to the less than 10 percent in the UK and the less than 7 percent in the US, that is something that we should be deeply concerned about and something that we should be doing everything we can to address. Those opportunities that came to the select committee and could have been integrated into this piece of legislation were not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003ENew Zealand youth vaping rates are far too high. Smoking had lost its allure\u2014we\u2019ve seen that; smoking rates have come down\u2014but vaping rates have accelerated and escalated, and we know that that is often a gateway for young people to then move to smoking. I absolutely support the banning of disposable vapes. We know that that was an accessibility issue. We know that that made vapes far too available to young people, but we need to see a reduction in the number of stores. This legislation could have allowed for that to happen and could have put a focus on some of our more socio-economically deprived communities, where we know there\u2019s a prevalence of those businesses and those stores selling vapes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003EThere could have been more done to address the proliferation of flavours. Nobody needs to smoke a vape that says \u201CBlueberry crumble\u201D and smells like a Smurf. There\u2019s absolutely no need for that nonsense, and it should have been addressed by this bill. Plain packaging could have been addressed by this bill. Nicotine limits could have been addressed by this bill. Enforcement could have been addressed by this bill. Futureproofing could have been addressed by this bill. But none\u2014none\u2014of it was. None of these things were addressed by this bill. Instead, with the bill that I am speaking to\u2014and that we will support because it does a tiny, tiny, tiny piece of work to address the challenges that our community faces around vaping\u2014there was so much more we could have done, and, really, if this is getting back on track, then I\u2019m disappointed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003EYou could have done so much better. I\u2019m not surprised by some of the grades we saw issued in the New Zealand Herald this week, if this is the kind of law that we see from this Government. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cc5ad38ca0f4613a7b887b1edbaa6f0\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, jeez! Wait till they get to the Labour Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e340ca01cb2c4c36bbfea4359bb8dd76\u0022\u003EREUBEN DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Now that you\u2019ve finished\u2014briefly\u2014I\u2019ll take the opportunity to remind you that under Labour, New Zealand led the world with our smoke-free legislation. While this coalition Government turns its back on that vision and that plan and that legislation, there are other countries that are picking it up and making it a reality, and it\u2019s an embarrassment that this coalition Government will not do that. I know that in my local community there are deep concerns about the rates of youth vaping and the prevalence of vaping stores and I know that will be the same across your communities as well, and you have missed the opportunity to represent and serve your community by putting some teeth into this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003EWhilst I support it, we need to do more. You could have done more. You have chosen not to do more, and that is beyond disappointing. It\u2019s an embarrassment that you\u2019ve walked away from such strong legislation and destroyed the smoke-free future that New Zealanders deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022 data-id=\u0022c147739441f54159be2d74bce9f3ef60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c147739441f54159be2d74bce9f3ef60\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products Amendment Bill (No 2) aims to better protect our young people from the harm of vaping. While vaping was aimed at helping people to quit smoking, it has instead proliferated among our young people, and that is what this legislation is intended to remedy. I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ab1d6eb093664ae5a745a48b19aad432\u0022\u003ESocial Security Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002290ff6a2e9e1a4b2c82b505542496cbd6\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u0022748f04bc25dd4a94bba9fcb82f7aa4ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022748f04bc25dd4a94bba9fcb82f7aa4ad\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Social Development and Employment: I present a legislative statement on the Social Security Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238d3909402b94bdaa5cb9e92c5c7b4de\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Where\u2019s the Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f18d156c3b1f4e72a1cb2634e396f400\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: This is disappointing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225745a42bd28a4fe996f3b538c4a1c526\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think we\u2019ll have that question, thank you. We\u2019ll let this Minister carry on. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b520a188aab34c6a9728278ec8c4f90e\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t ask a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea725a38622b4682934500c1cb711fb2\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no, there was a specific question there, asking where somebody was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c78c5d681dea4bd99706d8aa996ee5b2\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: I present a legislative statement on the Social Security Amendment Bill. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e551a2dc3037462d8d9cf5523f3af05b\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can we just have some quiet while the Minister gets started, please. That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb5486208bb04faf8cf3e3852d1d276e\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Social Security Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Social Services and Community Committee to consider the bill. At an appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 22 April 2025. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EHaving over 200,000 New Zealanders on the jobseeker support benefit means too many people are dependent on the State for their primary source of income. The number of people on jobseeker support increased by about 70,000 under the previous Government as the use of sanctions significantly decreased and almost two-thirds of the people receiving this benefit have been for over a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThis coalition Government believes those who can work should work, because having a job is the best way for people to lift themselves and their families out of hardship. The Social Security Amendment Bill amends the Social Security Act 2018 and the Social Security Regulations 2018 to ensure the settings of the welfare system are focused on supporting people off benefit and into employment. Our Government has greater aspirations for New Zealanders than a life spent on welfare, and these changes will contribute to our commitment to help more New Zealanders get ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThe bill I am introducing today has four key goals. It seeks to reduce the number of people receiving jobseeker support and increase exits into employment, reduce costs to taxpayers by reducing benefit numbers, enable welfare system settings that reinforce expectations to work where appropriate, and lift economic outcomes for people and their families through exit into work. The Minister has already begun work on these goals through launching phase 1 of the traffic light system on 12 August 2024, which saw Ministry of Social Development (MSD) clients being assigned a traffic light colour to give them a clear indication of their compliance with their obligations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThis bill introduces phase 2 of the traffic light system. Since June 2024, MSD has also been running work check-in seminars for people on jobseeker support who have full-time work obligations and are not in employment case management. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThis bill introduces four key policy amendments to achieve the goals I mentioned earlier. I would like to take this opportunity to touch on each of the four proposed policy changes and their rationale. Firstly, under phase 2 of the traffic light system, I am introducing two non-financial sanctions, specifically money management and community work experience, to expand the toolkit available to MSD for responding to a first failure of a work-related or social obligation. These new sanctions will provide an alternative to financial penalties for first-time obligation failures by certain cohorts of beneficiaries to help them on to a more productive pathway towards employment. The money management sanction will see half a person\u2019s benefit go on to a payment card that can only be used for a limited range of essential products and services, including for groceries, transport, health-related items, and education-related items. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThe community work experience sanction will require beneficiaries to complete work experience with community organisations to build up their skills, confidence, and community connections to improve their chances of getting a job. These sanctions only apply at the red setting of the traffic light system and will not apply to those with youth activity obligations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThe second key policy amendment I am proposing through this bill is a mandatory requirement for applicants of certain benefit types and their partners to complete a jobseeker profile questionnaire before they come on to benefit. Applicants will have to record information related to their work experience, qualifications, driver\u2019s licence attainment, and job preferences before their benefit application can be assessed and granted by MSD. Introducing this requirement as a mandatory pre-benefit activity will enable MSD to have work-related conversations with people very soon after a benefit is granted and connect them to any available jobs straight away. This will mean job seekers prepare for work sooner, resulting in better outcomes for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThirdly, the bill proposes requiring jobseeker support recipients and any partner included in their benefit to reapply every six months, rather than annually, to continue receiving their benefit. This amendment will change the expiry date for jobseeker support benefit from 52\u00A0weeks to 26 weeks, with newly defined requirements for re-grant. It will enable MSD to check on jobseeker support recipients more often than the current 52 weeks and create more opportunities for proactive engagements with applicants. It will also enable MSD to provide a greater level of support to overcome someone\u2019s barriers to work while ensuring they remain eligible for a benefit. This change will not apply to recipients of sole parent support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThe bill also proposes transitional arrangements to move jobseeker support recipients from a 52-week expiry and reapplication to the new 26-week expiry and reapplication process after these changes are implemented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EFinally, the bill proposes to extend the period over which a work-related or social obligation failure counts against a beneficiary from 12 months to 24 months. Counting past failures for twice as long will increase accountability and ensure tougher consequences for those who repeatedly fail to comply with their benefit obligations. It will mean those who regularly breach their obligations are more likely to move through to benefit cancellation if they remain on benefit longer than a year. Introducing a longer count period will strengthen the message to people on benefits about the responsibility they have to comply with their obligations. This change will not apply to people who fail a youth activity obligation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThis bill also proposes technical amendments to support the enactment of these policies. It proposes changes to support more efficient administration of the 26-week reapplication process and processes within the traffic light system, as well as changes that give effect to several other minor policy matters that reflect the intent of the overall policy changes of these proposals. These changes streamline the Act\u2019s operations and update language where needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EIt is critical that we have a welfare system that actively supports job seekers into work\u00A0rather than allowing them to get stuck in the system. It reflects the expectations of most hard-working New Zealanders, whose taxes go towards benefit payments. These legislative changes are critical components of the Government\u2019s efforts to increase exits into employment and have 50,000 fewer people on jobseeker support by 2030, which is forecast to save the country $2.3 billion in welfare payments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThis comprehensive package of reforms will ensure our welfare system continues to be a safety net for those who need it, while also shifting those who can work off benefit and into employment. We will continue to support those who cannot work permanently or temporarily, but our expectation will be that those who can work should be taking reasonable steps to become work-ready and find a job in return for receiving financial support from taxpayers. Those who do not will face consequences. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00221f032120a997488ca53ed5ae20cbd02a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f032120a997488ca53ed5ae20cbd02a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00222c09f551d18c4c9fa6ea61a6ce78d017\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c09f551d18c4c9fa6ea61a6ce78d017\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E When does the rhetoric change? Every time a National Government gets elected, it is the same story. Regardless of how responsible they are for the economic conditions or the job losses en masse, they deflect attention to the poorest people, to the beneficiaries; they install more punitive measures; they make out that it is the blame of the beneficiaries that they are on welfare in the first place; and they act like they can fix the situation by putting the boot in. When does the situation change? I\u2019m 47 years old, and I\u2019ve seen this cycle over and over again, and it continues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThere is so much to cover. When you just go through the regulatory impact statement, there is so much in here that contradicts everything the Minister stood up in the House and just spoke about. It would have been nice to hear from the primary Minister of this particular bill, and it is disappointing that we don\u2019t get to and that instead she has sent Penny Simmonds to do her work. However, we will go through the regulatory impact statement\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225420569d50c4e95aea3aa7b2fbb2647\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think we\u2019ll just dial it back. The first half of what you said\u00A0was OK, but I don\u2019t think there was any reason to attack the Minister that\u2019s actually sitting here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292bf541aa31a46729796c03fa4e796af\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: The purpose of this bill is to assist the Government with achieving their reduction of jobseeker support beneficiaries by 50,000. Let\u2019s put the facts on the table. Since that Government got into office, just over a year ago, there are now 30,000 or more people on benefit under their watch. Is that because people decided it would be a fun thing or a nice thing to do to go on welfare? No. It is because of the economic conditions. We have lost jobs in the construction industry. We have lost jobs in the public sector. We have hiring freezes in the health sector. New Zealanders are out of work, and right now they need welfare support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThen, instead of setting a target for job-exits off benefit, they decided that they would just find ways of getting people off benefit whichever way works. What they\u2019ve decided is that they will use sanctions and a higher level of administrative burden to beneficiaries to push people off benefit to help them achieve their target. The report is really clear that the use of sanctions, particularly to the extent that that Government is attempting to do, has massive repercussions for those on benefit. It is health and physical wellbeing repercussions. It is the likelihood of increased drug and alcohol addiction. It is the likelihood of increased poverty. Yet they ignore it. They go ahead anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThey haven\u2019t had an increase of staff at the Ministry of Social Development (MSD). However, they\u2019ve had a number of new compliance policies put on top of them\u2014not just the ones that are announced here but the ones that have been announced over the course of the last year. The regulatory impact statement lays out very clearly that the risk now is that front-line MSD staff will not have the capability or capacity to focus on constructive employment support. Instead, all of their time is going to be taken up with compliance as a result of what that Government has decided that they want to do with this particular bill and with our welfare system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe sanctions that they are looking to impose\u2014I don\u2019t know whether they\u2019re farcical or whether or not they\u2019re going to up the ante, but, as I said to the Minister already, they\u2019re not even enforcing the social obligations. Yet she\u2019s saying that as part of the traffic light system and what they\u2019re going to do here, they\u2019re going to up the ante and force more people or take them off benefit or sanction them if they don\u2019t have their kids in school, if they don\u2019t have them in early childhood education (ECE), or if they don\u2019t have them in a primary health organisation. Now, some of those things are sometimes out of the hands of the parents, because, if you lived in the real world, you\u2019d know that sometimes it\u2019s not that easy to get your kids enrolled in ECE or even into a primary health organisation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThere are a number of things in here that concern me. The reapplication process, which was already flawed at 52 weeks\u2014and I acknowledge that, having been the former Minister\u2014they\u2019re now going to make it every 26 weeks. Now, the report states that when you make people go through the reapplication process, it\u2019s not because they\u2019re no longer eligible that they go off benefit; it\u2019s because of this thing called \u201Cprocedural denials\u201D. These people get biffed off benefit because they don\u2019t have the correct paperwork or they don\u2019t get it in on time, and then they end up coming back on benefit anyway. I\u2019m not making that up; that is all in the report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThis Government\u2019s approach to the welfare system is flawed, and you\u2019re actually going to cause more harm for future generations of New Zealanders because you continue to ignore the evidence. When you talk about a social investment approach, I can\u2019t listen to you, because this is an example of where you ignore that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022860a9d4718a448f1b9c59e1596cae145\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022860a9d4718a448f1b9c59e1596cae145\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E In my first speech in Parliament, I gave a shout-out to and honoured everyone who\u2019s lied to Work and Income to make ends meet, and it would be a disservice if I didn\u2019t do the same thing today\u2014a shout-out to Metiria Turei, a shout-out to literally countless people on the benefit who did the right thing for their families when the rules were set against them. This legislation will result in countless people having to do things they shouldn\u2019t have to do, to provide for their families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI am sick and tired of listening to members across the House talking about people on the benefit as if they work with them, as if they organise with them, as if they engage with them, as if they serve them, and as if they care a damn about the people who this bill will be affecting and pushing deeper into poverty. They don\u2019t care about them. We\u2019ve got a Prime Minister calling people on the benefit \u201Cbottom trawlers\u201D. We\u2019ve got a Minister in charge of this bill who doesn\u2019t care what happens to people on the benefit once they don\u2019t receive income support that allows them to provide for their basic essentials\u2014she just wants to get them off a benefit. It doesn\u2019t matter where they go. It doesn\u2019t matter if they end up in the streets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThey keep talking, to justify this bill, about how they need to get people into work, but let me tell you what: unemployment is baked into our economic system. There is simply no way in which this current economic system will provide a job for every single person on the benefit. It never has and it never will, unless we change the system for the many and not the few. There will simply not be a situation under this Government where there will be as many jobs as there are unemployed people. Every person on the benefit deserves to live with dignity and out of poverty. No one should have to queue at a line to receive their bare essentials. What this bill will do is double down on beneficiary bashing. As much as the Minister who spoke earlier called it non-financial sanctions, if compulsory money management, if community work experience prevents you from accessing hardship grants, that is literally stripping away from people their means to survive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EClearly, people on the other side don\u2019t understand the lived realities of people on the benefit. How many people on the benefit rely on hardship grants to make ends meet on a weekly basis? Many of them have to call Work and Income and queue at Work and Income on a weekly basis to access hardship grants, to survive. If you strip the ability of people to access those things because they\u2019re on the so-called non-financial sanctions, you\u2019re stripping them of the means to pay rent. You\u2019re stripping them of the means to access transport, to look after their kids, and that is a pipeline to abuse in State care. That is a pipeline to the many things we\u2019ve been warned about by survivors, by people on the benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EAgain, this Government does not listen nor care about the realities. They would rather pander to beneficiary bashing than do the right thing: to lift benefit levels, finally, above the poverty line; to listen to the evidence and, actually, to the countless people on the benefit who have been so generous across the years in speaking to the media about what it is like to be on income support. The members of this Government would rather conjure an imaginary beneficiary they decided to create in their heads that apparently is ripping off the system, when actually most people are simply trying to survive. They\u2019re simply trying to do what\u2019s best for their communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI worked at the front lines with people on the benefit for many years, and the people that I\u2019ve met were people who have been failed by successive Governments, people who\u2019ve lived in motels. I\u2019ll tell you what: no amount of compulsory money management will lift them out of poverty if the benefit levels we set continue pushing them below the poverty line. When people are pushed below the poverty line, you make it harder for them to enter into employment. You make it harder for them to be the people who they want to become, to meet their aspirations. Let\u2019s not forget that, alongside those people on the jobseeker benefit, there are countless disabled people who have been prevented from accessing the support that they need, disabled people who will continue being failed by this Government and not have their needs\u2014including their health needs\u2014met. What this will do is it will trap many disabled people into further poverty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t want to believe nor buy any of the narrative that this is about getting people into work. The Government simply does not care for all the advice and evidence that they\u2019ve been presented. The fact is that they\u2019re literally copy-pasting failed policies from Australia into this country, where in Australia there is a mountain of evidence about how policies like compulsory money management have failed\u2014they have failed. They have pushed people into poverty, they have created more stigma. I actually think they do know the evidence, but they don\u2019t care, because cruelty is the point. Beneficiary bashing is the point. None of their rhetoric is the point; cruelty has always been the point. The point has always been to entrench inequality, to scapegoat beneficiaries, to scapegoat the people who need our support so they can continue pushing a political narrative while they continue environmental destruction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa0aeae024cf45fbab6758bc549791bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa0aeae024cf45fbab6758bc549791bf\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. The ACT Party is very proud to support the Social Security Amendment Bill. There were very interesting contributions from the Labour member and the Green member. I wish that they had understood the importance of people being in employment. What we have seen from them is that they actually encourage people to be on a benefit, and that is not the goal of this Government. That was the goal of the previous Government. They didn\u2019t care about people getting into employment, but we on this side do care about people getting into employment because that is how people reach their potential.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThe ACT Party really wants to see that we empower people so that they can do well for themselves, they can do well for their family, they can do well for the community and also contribute to the economy, because every individual, at whatever level they work, makes a contribution that makes our community a functioning community. We want to see all these people also becoming part of that functioning community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EI also want to say that, yes, for some people, sometimes in their lives, they will have to depend on a benefit, because maybe they\u2019re going through that phase when they\u2019re looking for employment and they\u2019ll be on a jobseeker benefit or people have been trying for it for a while after they have finished their studies. That\u2019s totally fine. That is the purpose of the welfare system\u2014to support people when they really need it\u2014and most of these people, those who go on the benefit, we know work really hard to get back into employment. Then there are some who go on a benefit, and then they just sit on the benefit, and they lose that motivation to get back into employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EAlso, it\u2019s not just that one individual in the family, but there is evidence that it can go from one generation to the next generation, because when the younger generation sees the older generation just being on the benefit, they wonder what the reason is for them to go out and look for unemployment, so they follow the older people in their family, and that is what we want to stop. We want to see that these people are communicated with very clearly as to what their obligations are, and these obligations will be communicated very clearly, and if they fail these obligations, then there will be sanctions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThe ACT Party, before the election, campaigned on money management, and we have seen that this bill will implement money management of people\u2014those who fail their obligations. Half of their benefit will go on a card which can be used for essential items. Also, this bill is going to introduce a community-work component for people, only a few hours every week for four weeks, which is going to be helpful for these people to gain some experience. They will be able to gain this community-work experience in not-for-profit organisations, but then that will add value to their CV, that will add value to their life in terms of having that experience to go out and explain to an employer that they do have experience of working for different organisations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also important that when people fail, there are some consequences. If there are no sanctions, then people just feel that they can stay on the benefit for as long as they want. On this side, we want to see that those people really feel that there are going to be consequences, because this is about mutual respect, respect between the State and people who receive the benefit. Yes, the Government\u2019s role is to provide benefit to people who really need it, but for people who are on the benefit, it\u2019s their responsibility as well to ensure that they are doing everything to get off the jobseeker benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EIt is also important for us to note that Governments are accountable to taxpayers, and these individuals who get off the benefit and get into employment will be making a contribution, as well, as a taxpayer. That is not just a success story of that individual; that is a success story of that whole community and the whole country. What we want to see is more and more people who are on jobseeker benefit able to get into employment so that they can be contributing as well to make us a more functioning and a stronger and healthier country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThere are a number of changes that this bill brings, in line with what we want to achieve, which is to see more and more people getting into employment. With that, I support and commend this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2e4991d48464d308bd3efab19f34fb4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2e4991d48464d308bd3efab19f34fb4\u0022\u003ETANYA UNKOVICH (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you. I\u2019ll take a short call on behalf of New Zealand First in favour of the Social Security Amendment Bill. Now, this bill, it has several objectives, but, really, in general, it is about ensuring that our welfare system is focused on enhancing and extending our welfare settings in order to support people into employment and out of dependency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand First, we believe in helping everyone. We also believe in empowering people and reducing benefit dependency. Now, I will be on the Social Services Committee, so I look forward to be going through the process and speaking more on this bill when it comes back into the House. On behalf of New Zealand First, I commend the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u00221d08432ac14b40ae80c2732d594c1cf5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d08432ac14b40ae80c2732d594c1cf5\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Just listening to the impassioned k\u014Drero\u2014certainly from this side of the House\u2014and then the responses from the other side, they carry a typical attitude, I think, which is often what I\u2019d describe as \u201CLet them eat cake.\u201D This lot on my left say, \u201CLet them eat cake.\u201D, because that\u2019s all they get\u2014that\u2019s how they perceive the world\u2014and I had this very same feeling when we were talking about a couple of bills earlier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s discussed from this left side of the House as if they truly, actually get the context for families, mums, dads, and their children on benefit who are struggling, trying to do their best, and can\u2019t quite get there\u2014can\u2019t quite get there\u2014and suddenly this next lot of legislation comes along and says, \u201CWell, look, you might be doing good, but we know what\u2019s best for you. We do know what\u2019s better for you; in fact, so much so that we\u2019re going to put a bill in place that tells you how to live\u201D\u2014how to live in poverty\u2014\u201Cwithout any real understanding of what the reality is on a daily basis.\u201D I heard a little bit earlier from the left of me, and I was thinking, \u201COK, that speech might get there. I might feel like this person understands the lived experience.\u201D, and, right now, the picture that comes to mind is the wh\u0101nau that Peeni Henare and Willow-Jean Prime and I know and love in Te Tai Tokerau. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s the intergenerational argument, I think\u2014and that\u2019s what I want to say\u2014that was raised here. It is as if a wh\u0101nau, their parents, or their grandparents\u2014\u201CThat\u2019s how they were and that\u2019s what they\u2019re used to and that\u2019s just how M\u0101oris are. They\u2019re lazy.\u201D All of that deep racist k\u014Drero exists in the narrative. It exists in the narrative, and it\u2019s bloody\u2014oh, sorry. It\u2019s shameful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229464ef102a8645a6850d6f6f1f11d778\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Apology accepted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220563148f8e53477e90ddd897af56422e\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me\u2014sorry, Madam Speaker. There are other words I\u2019d probably want to use, but I guess what I am saying is that with regard to the intergenerational argument, it\u2019s similar to the point that I wanted to raise when our children and our young people are caught up in a system such as Oranga Tamariki, and there are the generations of our kids that are in State care, right? They have grandparents that have been in State care, and they have grandparents and great-grandparents that have been caught up in prisons, in incarceration, and in that poverty churn\u2014in that poverty pathway\u2014but not because they want to be there, not because they were born to be in that place, but because, systemically, that\u2019s where it pathways for many, many of our families. The benefit system is no different. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThe pretence in that speech that \u201CLook, we do want you to get a job, and we really think that you can contribute.\u201D It\u2019s such a patronising, unbelievable, fake conversation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3d91f726a8645f28ce8077dd1c58e7e\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: How so?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bef635a263b14791ad23f165e4072dcf\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and to anybody that dares to ask me\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205bbece444e9443cacad1779a017e438\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: How?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c2df4bfc63a48a99f0724cfc8beb99f\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014particularly P\u0101keh\u0101 that try and ask me that question, I\u2019d say just don\u2019t bother. You couldn\u2019t possibly know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThere are the numbers of young people that suffer mental health issues, and particularly our young people that suffer from deep mental health issues that lead down to very serious, serious, devastating results. I worked in the suicide prevention space. I get what these results can be, and the most serious and terrible points and ends. If you think that all of this isn\u2019t connected to one another, you are completely mistaken. You live a false reality, and you just simply couldn\u2019t understand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EWhat can I say? Moumou te w\u0101 [Waste of time], Madam Speaker. Engari pai ki te k\u014Drero ki a koe. Moumou ki te k\u014Drero ki ng\u0101 hunga e mea k\u016Bare ana ki t\u0113nei taha, t\u014Dku taha. Engari ka mihi ki a koe. [But it is good to speak to you. It is a waste of time to speak to this lot on my side, who are ignorant. But I acknowledge you.] This simply cannot be supported. Please knock it off. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022 data-id=\u00223b5ff077dec142c5bceae04bd1839afe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b5ff077dec142c5bceae04bd1839afe\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. The object of the Social Security Amendment Bill is to support people\u2014help people, enable people off the benefit by getting them, helping them, into employment. We need to reduce the dependence on welfare by helping New Zealanders, more New Zealanders, become more aspirational and to develop the mana that hard work and achievement brings. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u00223de818e0563b455398edaf8d0db96834\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223de818e0563b455398edaf8d0db96834\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Another difficult bill to sit here and listen to: the speech from the Minister and the speeches from the Government members on what they say this will do, and then the speeches from this side, which are about what it will actually do, what it will mean, what the impact of this will be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI want to start by saying that under this Government, we have already seen the numbers on main benefits rise by 29,000, and 22,000 for jobseeker support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022440fb916b90848038ca6334e9c00bcf9\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Thanks, Labour! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ead355514a9c4a558ae0db76b81ddc5e\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME\u003C/span\u003E: Here we go again, blaming Labour. One year in, taking no responsibility\u2014no responsibility\u2014for their actions that have led\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1afc5e3df844b218064a47a9a702c61\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Too loud.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e12c33764d9a455bb38c88c559d9b534\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to increases in the numbers requiring benefits. No responsibility. They just blame, and then they put in place more punitive measures, saying that it is going to help these people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI go to the regulatory impact statement (RIS). Once again, thank you to the officials who prepare these documents. I just want to point out, on page 6, once again, the \u201CLimitations and Constraints on Analysis\u201D. That includes \u201CNarrow scope: The proposals developed in this package were largely informed by, and limited to, a series of commitments made by the Government in its pre-election materials and two coalition agreements.\u201D It\u2019s not evidence; just their own political promises. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u201CLack of broader public consultation\u201D: the time frames for the development of this policy once again \u201Cdid not allow for public consultation\u201D. They don\u2019t care what anybody has to say. They are simply here to deliver on their election promises, their manifesto commitments\u2014not interested. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de8017f353464004bb568f070666b216\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Too loud.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd9567ec41b1406294b2c1c4d0a82c07\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME\u003C/span\u003E: They are not interested in a regulatory impact statement, any advice from any officials, any evidence, because they know best. They also have not thought about the funding and operational capacity of the Ministry of Social Development (MSD). The RIS says, if anybody\u2019s bothered to read it, which it doesn\u2019t appear that they have, that they have received strong indications from MSD \u201Cthat options will need to be funded within existing baselines and therefore existing\u201D\u2014wait for it\u2014\u201Cfrontline resources.\u201D No\u2014no concern from the other side of the House. Why am I not surprised?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI want to talk\u2014and this will rark them up, I\u2019m sure\u2014about the impacts that this will have on M\u0101ori. Oh, a little bit of silence. Paragraph 57, on page 23\u2014[Interruption]\u2014oh, here we go; didn\u2019t take you long\u2014\u201CM\u0101ori are disproportionately represented in the welfare system and are more likely to be affected by the proposals recommended in this\u00A0suite of changes.\u201D Anybody over that side care about that? No, no, I didn\u2019t hear a single care. \u201CProposals, such as the reapplication process \u2026 non-financial sanctions, may disproportionately negatively impact M\u0101ori\u201D. You will fail to align with the active protection and equity promises of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. \u201CM\u0101ori are more likely to have their benefit cancelled through the reapplication process\u201D\u2014you have the statistics here\u00A0in\u00A0the regulatory impact statement: 3.5\u00A0percent compared to 2.7 percent. \u201CM\u0101ori are \u2026 sanctioned at greater rates than non-M\u0101ori\u201D, and they are also likely to be \u201Coverrepresented in the cohort [who are] available for non-financial sanctions and will be disproportionately impacted by the negative consequences associated with [these] interventions\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI only have five minutes in this first contribution. I wasn\u2019t able to get to the impact on\u00A0Pacific people, on women, on people with disabilities, on children and young people, or on older people, but those members on that side of the House might like to read page\u00A025 so they can see what the officials are saying will be the actual impact of these proposals on some of our most vulnerable people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022 data-id=\u00228f79b94ce13a44a49b5aa60c0a30fdb2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f79b94ce13a44a49b5aa60c0a30fdb2\u0022\u003EDANA KIRKPATRICK (National\u2014East Coast):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Look, I rise to take a call on this bill. I have been to the Ministry of Social Development to see how this works, and I have spoken to them. I know full well the demographic in my electorate of people who are on the jobseeker benefit, and I also know the help and support that is available to them if they\u2019re prepared to give it a go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003EThis Government has said so many times already that people sometimes need to go on a benefit\u2014we understand that\u2014but if they can work, they should try to work, and while the taxpayers of this country are paying, people need to take steps to find a job if they can. All we ask is that some effort is made. This bill is directly pointed at making that effort. I don\u2019t know, but money doesn\u2019t grow on trees. We need to actually make a difference in this country, and by helping people to get a job, to get some training, to get some support, then if that\u2019s what it takes, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022443f9541129348eb9a0633ab1e5bbb4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022443f9541129348eb9a0633ab1e5bbb4d\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s Christmas, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s Christmas-time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b345faafa1d844fd864c913752ddddb7\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh no. Oh, gee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ff463dc76f1460797db0fb9afecf927\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, and I think the grinch\u2014I think Ebenezer Scrooge is in the House this evening and trying to wrangle every cent and every penny they can. It grieves me to hear the mockery and the barrage of\u2014it almost seems like it\u2019s fun to talk about beneficiaries\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa05570d5f0b4de8b4c0ef8e7252dbff\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re just thinking of the interest you accumulated on the debt, Glen. Keep going. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c01e2190fb3d433bb7a1866bc87d1587\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: We are a welfare State and we pride ourselves\u2014so we talk about the debt, yes, but it\u2019s how we administer that, Mr Cameron; it\u2019s how we administer that.  For me standing in this position, I\u2019m sure many people in this House have walked alongside beneficiaries. I\u2019m sure many people in this House have been into the Work and Income office and experienced the treatment that they\u2019ve received. If you have not, it is not easy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d34d81c6f0724688ba84bb95ef0b850d\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: If you hadn\u2019t wasted it, we could give more of it away, mate\u2014I\u2019m sorry. You just burnt all the cash.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267978825b4e74a2da6e435e76cbc6319\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: You might think\u2014and as Mr Cameron there is saying, money doesn\u2019t grow on trees. It\u2019s like the beneficiaries are just trying to pluck it out from here, there, and everywhere. That is not true. If you want to think it\u2019s funny, if you want to think that beneficiary-bashing is fun, then enjoy\u2014enjoy your Christmas with your family, enjoy your Christmas with your Christmas turkey, enjoy your Christmas with your beautiful champagne\u2014but know the fact is that there are people out there in my own home who are struggling, and there are reasons for that struggle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EYes, we agree on this side of the House\u2014of course we do\u2014that there are people who take things for granted. We agree, of course, that there are people who play the game and play the rules. But you know what? There\u2019s people in business, people who play the tax system, who make mega dollars, and you don\u2019t comment when that happens, but when it comes to a few beneficiaries\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022000e0bdff8af4a79a16f5e1c447c72bf\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: They pay the taxes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f384837101884a11a2b7c1415e185a17\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Not the ones who play the game, if you are listening. Please don\u2019t make fun of this, because this is serious, and this makes me angry. You might giggle and laugh and think that I\u2019m just overreacting, but when it\u2019s people in your own family, when it\u2019s people who have suffered excessive trauma before their teenage years, then of course we want to get them into work. Of course we want them to have a life where they actually stand up for themselves. Of course we do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f1a4fc804db4d6798a20b64823f0dd8\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: They don\u2019t get there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290533982396f4d539d5e9d53e07d6518\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: They don\u2019t get there because the system is stacked against them. This system should be about empowerment, this system should be about lifting people up, but this legislation is about disempowerment; it\u2019s about control. If you are a social worker, if you have studied anything in the humanities\u2014for those who have been able to\u2014you\u2019ll know that it\u2019s about empowerment and lifting people up. It\u2019s not about putting these heavy-handed approaches on people and saying to them, \u201CWe know best. We know it\u2019s right for you because we\u2019re OK.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022192cb032da67449c8a4a13953fa102ce\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: A rising tide lifts all boats, Glen Bennett. The whole country, not just some.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256077d0a3e824c7589940b3e715b8900\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I can\u2019t even\u2014I can\u2019t even respond to that, and I won\u2019t. I\u2019ve heard words from the Government side this afternoon on this bill, saying this is about supporting people, this is about helping people, this is about enabling people. This is about disenabling people, this piece of legislation. You know what we should be considering tonight? Have you ever thought about maybe looking at amendments to this bill around\u2014what about mentoring? What about coaching? What about looking for solutions within your own community? Oh, no, it\u2019s OK for you. Oh, you\u2019ve probably got a coach. You probably pay for that yourself or get the party to pay for it. But no, for you\u2014sorry, Madam Chair\u2014for the Government\u2014 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ad93a22bc324a4b85c59d6a9e2c3e29\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s OK. It\u2019s an emotional topic, and I\u2019ve let a few people get away with it tonight\u2014I don\u2019t take it personally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef6d045954814289b1e7f4eac4e61c17\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: For Government MPs, it beggars belief to me that\u2014I believe there\u2019s a lack of understanding of what it\u2019s like to negotiate the welfare system. I don\u2019t understand what it\u2019s like to actually come from a life where you weren\u2019t born into the right family, you weren\u2019t born into the right community. Yes, you\u2019ll say, \u201COh, it\u2019s just Glen\u2019s making excuses. Glen\u2019s just saying, \u2018Oh, yeah, we can all lift ourselves up from our bootstrings!\u2019 \u201D But you know what? There are many of us that struggle and we want to look at how we can empower our communities. We want to look at our welfare State as\u2014yeah, it is, it\u2019s a backstop. It should be a backstop, but it should be something that is enabling, and lifts people as opposed to something that puts the thumb down on them, something that controls them, something that walks over them. This is tough to hear at Christmas. We cannot support this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022861cbfaa81dd45cd8f8f915d8fa321e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022861cbfaa81dd45cd8f8f915d8fa321e0\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, can you believe what we\u2019re hearing today\u2014can you believe what we\u2019re hearing? Can you remember those sky-rocketing jobseeker numbers during the COVID days when we had acute labour shortages and cafes could not open on certain days, yet the jobseeker numbers just keep going up and no one could find labour. That was under that previous administration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EWe heard that they say this Government is only interested in delivering on its election promises. Oh, holy smoke! Wow! Delivering for the public\u2014delivering for the public. And guess what? This is a Government that\u2019s about action plans. This is a Government that\u2019s about delivery, accountability. Guess what\u2014guess what! Go on to the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet website and find Government target No. 5, out of nine Government targets. Guess what that is? Fifty-thousand fewer people on jobseeker support benefit. That is a Government target. That is what we committed to. This legislation will help us get there. I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d270498383d9476383ecca5f0c1da2f3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Social Security Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022 data-id=\u0022e135d39173ef428f9a5d6178fc6f9db1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e135d39173ef428f9a5d6178fc6f9db1\u0022\u003EDANA KIRKPATRICK (National\u2014East Coast):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Speaker. The member from the Greens voted 14, not 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022531774882dba4beaab3622969a8547fb\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There may be a valid reason for that. Is that correct?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f292a73d60ee4f1a94b50b5f17b29b53\u0022\u003EDANA KIRKPATRICK\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, Madam Speaker, but that wouldn\u2019t make it 55.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aae7e3ff7fca4f139842ad257f38e6b0\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Very good counting. Just a moment. We\u2019ll get the number checked. Good spotting. The Ayes are 68, the Noes are 54.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226f034579faae4bfbb7118b16b91a8aac\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E Social Security Amendment Bill be considered by the \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002275f4898ace634cf1afd3c42cd49ce9ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275f4898ace634cf1afd3c42cd49ce9ec\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That theSocial Services and Community Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Social Services and Community Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227e3a84136b8a4166bd0e12c2efb157d2\u0022\u003EInstruction to Social Services and Community Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u00227787cfdcec1140a29ca1726e30e158ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227787cfdcec1140a29ca1726e30e158ca\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Social Development and Employment: I move, That the Social Security Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 22 April 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u00228c86e94cfad743f99147e50ac8178711\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c86e94cfad743f99147e50ac8178711\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m just seeking your clarity, and I may have this wrong, so apologies. When a select committee process is asked to be reported back in less than the standard six-month process, is it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab9cb0179b1c4bb78dc31f6ebea7d772\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab9cb0179b1c4bb78dc31f6ebea7d772\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If it\u2019s over 4 months and one day, which to my understanding it is, there is no debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3eeeaa7149a4056988ef974f24445bd\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I was trying to remember.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddfd3fee2c5c46afb58f0991e1130b60\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221219aa8f843b4407a6d90e25b2a773b3\u0022\u003ECrimes Legislation (Stalking and Harassment) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dd4f225c6bf94ea6a3101dbcd3337dc5\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7bc2d3c400a408aa15099a40068d41a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7bc2d3c400a408aa15099a40068d41a\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I present a legislative statement on the Crimes Legislation (Stalking and Harassment) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb3b25ba1a8e48e187e3e84a356bb730\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227978f6f5077d4cc486b8360e2df4c28e\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Crimes Legislation (Stalking and Harassment) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Justice Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EEvery New Zealander deserves to feel safe in their community. When a person is stalked, the experience permeates every aspect of their life. The behaviour can escalate to serious physical harm. We know the public is concerned about stalking. We\u2019ve heard from advocates who tell us stalking needs to be recognised as its own offence. Today, I\u2019m very proud to present the Crimes Legislation (Stalking and Harassment) Amendment Bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThis bill delivers on our commitment under the Quarter Four Action Plan to introduce legislation to address stalking by the end of the year. The bill creates a new offence of stalking and harassment. It repeals the existing offence of criminal harassment in the Harassment Act. We heard from advocates that the placement of the offence within the law is important as it sends a clear message about its seriousness. The new offence will therefore be inserted into the Crimes Act 1961. The seriousness of the new offence will also be reflected by its penalty\u2014a conviction of the new offence will be punishable by up to five years\u2019 imprisonment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe offence has two key elements that will need to be satisfied to secure a conviction. First, the perpetrator will need to have engaged in a pattern of behaviour against the victim. The bill defines a pattern of behaviour as three specified acts within a 12-month period. Secondly, the perpetrator needs to have engaged in that pattern of behaviour knowing it was likely to cause fear or distress to the victim. The bill provides a list of the types of behaviours that may be a specified act. These include things like watching or loitering near the victim, tracking or communicating with the victim, and damaging or interfering with their property. It also includes less tangible harm like damaging or undermining the victim\u2019s reputation or relationships.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard that stalkers often use other people, organisations, and institutions to stalk their victims. Examples of these behaviours and the harm it can cause have also been documented in the media recently. To address this, this bill provides that specified acts may be done directly or indirectly to the victim. This makes it clear acts may be done through or to a third party with the knowledge that it will cause the victim fear or distress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe bill also makes it clear that a specified act can be done by or through any means whatsoever. Examples of different means are given, such as the use of tracking devices, spyware, and artificial intelligence. These clarifications seek to futureproof the law by ensuring that new forms of stalking can still be captured by the law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ETo protect legitimate conduct from being criminalised, a defence to the offence is included in the bill. Specifically, it provides that the defendant will not be liable for behaviour done for a lawful purpose, with a reasonable excuse, or in the public interest. This ensures that, for example, law enforcement can perform its function without the risk of prosecution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EAs part of the offence, the bill establishes a police notification system. This allows the police to notify stalkers that their behaviour is causing the victim fear or distress, and that if the behaviour continues they\u2019re liable to be charged with the offence. A police notification is not required to prosecute the offence. Receiving a notice will not be a prerequisite for filing a charge, but a notice should not be given instead of prosecution where it is clear an offence has been committed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EHowever, where a notice is given, a notification system will support prosecution. If a person has previously received a notification and they continue to engage in the pattern of behaviour, the bill creates a presumption that they knew their pattern of behaviour was likely to cause the victim fear or distress. This assists improving the mental element of the offence. The notification system makes it clear that there are real consequences for stalkers. It also aims to reduce the steps victims need to go through to have their harm responded to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EIn addition to the new offence, the bill makes supporting amendments to four other Acts to address stalking. Amendments to the Sentencing Act 2002 aim to better recognise the unique characteristics of stalking and provide better protection for victims. The bill will add two new sentencing aggravating factors. First, it will be an aggravating factor if the offending took place where the victim had a restraining order against the offender. Secondly, it will be an aggravating factor if the offender\u2019s behaviour towards the victim outside of the offence involved persistent or repetitive behaviour over a prolonged period. That behaviour must have caused, or be likely to have caused, fear or distress in the victim.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe bill also allows the court to make new orders when sentencing a person convicted of the new offence. Specifically, the court will be able to make restraining orders under the Harassment Act 1997 and orders under the Harmful Digital Communications Act 2015. This change provides additional protection for victims of stalking, meaning that they won\u2019t also have to seek civil remedies alongside a criminal trial.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe bill amends the Family Violence Act 2018 to make it clear that stalking can be a form of family violence. Psychological abuse already captures intimidation and harassment, so this change provides consistency and completeness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EEvidence indicates that stalkers with access to firearms are more likely to escalate to violence. To address this risk, the bill amends the Arms Act 1983. That amendment provides that a person convicted of a new offence within the last 10 years will be disqualified from holding a firearms licence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EFinally, the bill makes changes to the Evidence Act 2006 to prevent a defendant charged with the new offence from personally cross-examining the alleged victim. This amendment aims to reduce the risk of witness intimidation, reflecting the particular nature of stalking cases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI\u2019m proud to bring this bill to the House today, which brings real consequences for stalkers and better responses for victims of stalking. I want to thank the tireless work of the advocates in this space for their continued efforts. I want to acknowledge the more than 18,800 people who signed the Coalition for the Safety of Women and Children\u2019s petition to make stalking illegal. We hear you. We\u2019re now sending off for a full select committee process where we\u2019re happy to discuss the finer details. I\u2019m sure people will have many things to say about that and we\u2019re very keen to hear those comments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re delivering on our commitment to ensure that there are 20,000 fewer victims of serious violent crime by 2029, and this bill brings us one step closer to this commitment. I hope that we will enjoy widespread support across the House for this important legislation. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022aef4cd44d10948e7b9a20f853a06e63a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aef4cd44d10948e7b9a20f853a06e63a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00224baba58cacac4e03a15c2ebf8ae37984\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224baba58cacac4e03a15c2ebf8ae37984\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call on the Crimes Legislation (Stalking and Harassment) Amendment Bill. At the beginning of this year, the honourable Minister responsible for this bill stated quite clearly on the public record that stalking legislation was in fact not a priority for this Government. He explained quite clearly that there was a busy work programme ahead of the justice portfolio, and stalking legislation quite simply was not a high priority on that busy workload.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESomething changed his mind, something made him change to make this legislation a priority. Maybe it was the nearly 20,000 signatures delivered to him on the steps of Parliament by all of those women and advocates who worked so hard to bring those signatures together. Maybe it was a member\u2019s bill that proposed to do what this bill does but a bit more, which had the potential for being drawn from the ballot. Or maybe he just had a change of heart. Let\u2019s hope it was the third one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ELabour supports this bill because we think it does good work in this space, but we do have some reservations, and I\u2019ll go into detail about what those reservations are. I will ask people who are strong advocates in the sector to submit and put their voices forward to the select committee so that all those views can be taken into consideration when we receive submissions on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EBefore I go into that detail, I\u2019d like to acknowledge three people. There are lots of others I could acknowledge, but I would like to firstly acknowledge Leonie Morris, who is the chair of the Coalition for the Safety of Women and Children. It is Leonie I met and I worked closely with in the drafting of my member\u2019s bill. She is a strong advocate for women\u2019s safety and has worked tirelessly in the sector and continues to do so, and she has a wealth of knowledge in how to better support victims in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to also acknowledge Awatea Mita from the Aotearoa Free from Stalking campaign. They drove a strong campaign that has largely driven and put pressure upon this Government to bring this bill to the House before the end of the year, and I acknowledge the hard work that has gone in to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to acknowledge the work of Layba Zubair and the Anti-Violence Action community organisation, who have worked as a group. One of the benefits, I would say, of being in Opposition is the ability to engage with the front-facing people who do this hard work in our community and understand the nature of issues by engaging with them\u00A0and understanding the specific circumstances of repeat stalking which happens in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EStalking is a shocking and far more prevalent practice than most people understand it to be. It can take many shapes and forms. It can be online, it can be in person, it can be following, it can be repeated unwanted gifts, it can be physical violence. It can be cameras unknown in your home or in your car, it can be tracking through GPS. You can think of many, many, many ways you can try to make someone\u2019s life a misery by stalking them. It varies. It can be someone who\u2019s had a relationship already, or it can be someone who\u2019s never met them but only seen them online. Either way, it is a power play to dominate and intimidate someone and to make their life a misery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EOne of the points I\u2019d like to highlight in this short speech is that this bill has been called tone-deaf by the sector. It has been called a watered-down protection, and the key reason is that this very bill repeals the harassment law and introduces a new stalking law, and that is what has caused real dismay from the very women who campaigned so strongly and brought together those petitions. The Crimes Legislation (Stalking and Harassment) Amendment Bill would make it illegal to carry out three stalking actions in a year, but, very importantly, it would also allow the repeal of the related offence of criminal harassment, which is defined as two acts of serious harassment in a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EMaking it legal for stalkers to harass their victims twice a year in certain ways is absolutely counterproductive and uncalled for, possibly even unprecedented internationally, and the sector has called upon the Minister and stated that they are angry at this \u201Cbait-and-switch move.\u201D Stalking actions are harmful, and the harassment law is wound into this as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0e0af11a2664e6c8ec4a400c9ca982a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0e0af11a2664e6c8ec4a400c9ca982a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022 data-id=\u00229cacc07375d8487e8f5292dd611fe70f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cacc07375d8487e8f5292dd611fe70f\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Greens confirm that we will be supporting this bill to select committee. I want to mihi to the mahi of countless survivors, advocates, and wh\u0101nau members for their tireless work over successive Governments to ensure stalking and harassment is taken seriously. Their collaboration, dedication, and determination is the reason we are here today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003ETo members across both sides of the House: we are putting our differences aside to focus on our shared vision to prevent all forms of violence, particularly harassment and stalking, which are not inevitable. Our mokopuna deserve our commitment to creating a world where everyone can live free from violence. We are committed to honouring the experiences and the dignity of survivors, and will use all the tools available to us so that the bill we pass is fit for purpose, reflects their experiences, and will make the world safer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand\u2019s justice system does not sufficiently address stalking. This bill aims to close that gap and better protect victims of stalking. My colleagues have covered the amendments proposed in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EThe Greens recognise that this bill takes a punitive approach. An essential action to protect victims of stalking and harassment is to focus on prevention and rehabilitation to address the root causes for the harmful behaviour. We have an across-Government strategy Te Aorerekura, which is a bold action plan to eliminate family and sexual violence in Aotearoa New Zealand. I mihi to the Hon Marama Davidson and Jan Logie for shepherding this action plan into fruition. Prevention and rehabilitation includes robust mental health support, ensuring accessible services to address harmful behaviours early, education on healthy relationships and consent in schools, and adequately funding our front-line community one-stop support services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EWe know the work of the experts and survivors like Aotearoa Free from Stalking and the Coalition for the Safety of Women and Children has been vital to bringing this bill to the House. On the Parliament steps earlier this year, Aotearoa Free from Stalking handed a petition with over 21,000 signatures, which shows how much support this move has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003ETo achieve our goals to protect victims of stalking and harassment, we have to listen to people with lived experience. There are three main concerns that have been brought to our attention by survivors and experts. Firstly, there are concerns about the requirement of the 12-month time frame and three specific actions to meet the threshold for stalking. Leonie Morris from the Coalition for the Safety of Women and Children said, \u201CMaking it legal for stalkers to harass their victims twice [in] a year in [a] certain way is counter-productive and uncalled for, and possibly unprecedented internationally,\u201D. Secondly, many victims who have struggled to have their stalking taken seriously have\u00A0raised concerns about police training. We need police to be properly equipped to recognise and respond to stalking. Thirdly, the third main concern is the lack of mandatory consideration of stalker rehabilitation, like non-violence programmes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EThese concerns, among others, show why it is so important that we have a select committee process: we need to hear directly from survivors and sector experts. Let\u2019s uplift their voices and make sure this bill addresses their needs and honours the mana of their experiences. Stalking is terrifying and horrific, and it can happen to anyone. We can create a future where everyone in Aotearoa can live free from violence with dignity and peace. To the survivors and allies: we\u2019ve got you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022 data-id=\u0022d471982f051846df9a631d7d959b0496\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d471982f051846df9a631d7d959b0496\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR (Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you. It\u2019s an absolute privilege to stand here today, not only on behalf of ACT but as the Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence, and I feel humbled to be able to speak to this today. You\u2019ll have to excuse me; this is kind of personal for me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EStalking doesn\u2019t just affect the main victim. It affects their family, it affects their children, living in fear on a daily basis, not knowing what is going to meet them at the gate in the morning. When you see the light disappear from somebody\u2019s eyes, their whole life just destroyed by a person who thinks that it\u2019s OK to do that to them, when you sit in a hospital and you watch a woman who cannot even say their name because they\u2019ve lost the ability to speak, I know we\u2019re doing the right thing by bringing this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EI\u2019m sorry for the tears, but they\u2019re not tears of weakness. They\u2019re tears of years of women screaming for help, of children not knowing how to help their parent, taking on that responsibility of trying to step in between the perpetrator and the victim and becoming a victim themselves, all because police do not have the tools to be able to stop this from happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EI look forward to the day when we don\u2019t hear on the other end of the phone \u201CThey\u2019re not breaking any rules.\u201D, when a person can stand at the top of a driveway and stare daggers down at a person who is absolutely petrified but there is nothing the police can do, because they haven\u2019t stepped on to your property, but they can stand at the top of your driveway and put the living fear of God into you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EI look forward to the day when we can actually say we\u2019re not going to tolerate this any\u00A0more. I look forward to the day when children are not seeing the fear in their parents\u2019 eyes. I look forward to the day when we are backing the victims, and that is what we are doing today. Today, we are going to say that it is not OK to torment or to put fear and distress upon somebody to the point where they can no longer live a life without fear and without violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EI would like to thank the Hon Paul Goldsmith for bringing in this bill today. I know it has been quite a full-on year, with a lot of legislation that has to be passed, and I am grateful that this has been given priority. This will make an absolute difference to so many people in this country and will go a long way towards breaking that cycle of harm, which is what Te Aorerekura is all about. I will shout out to Marama Davidson for starting the conversation that needed to be started, and I am honoured to carry that conversation on now, because it is too important for this not to continue. We need to focus on the women and children who have for far too long been put in the background, in the \u201Ctoo hard basket\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EThe effects that stalking has are massive. I cannot state enough how big this is. It will create an absolute opportunity for women, children, and some men to get freedom\u2014freedom from being under the thumb of a possessive person who thinks that it is OK to be in that person\u2019s space without permission and that it is OK to create that form of fear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EIt is not OK, and we, as a House, are standing here united today to say that we are all on\u00A0the same page and it will not be tolerated any more. We will not allow this to happen any more, and we will give the police the tools that they need to stop this from happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00220610601d742a40c48237a4f97e907fd2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220610601d742a40c48237a4f97e907fd2\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022 data-id=\u0022f132e63e5b93488a952715bc2dfb1d4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f132e63e5b93488a952715bc2dfb1d4d\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Associate Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I stand equally privileged and humbled to be able to speak on the Crimes Legislation (Stalking and Harassment) Amendment Bill. I would firstly like to start my contribution by acknowledging the member the Hon Karen Chhour for not only her strength and conviction; her honesty and her ability to bring the humanity on important issues. I am grateful that she shared her experiences and her passion on this topic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EThis is an important piece of legislation because we talk a lot about the need to rectify violence and to reduce the level of violent crime but in doing this we have to empower our victims. We have to allow our victims to know that there is something that can be done. We have to allow our victims to understand that what is being done is wrong and that they can be in a place of strength, they can be supported, they can be encouraged, and they can be protected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI have been in the position where I have dealt with victims who offenders have encroached just to the line and not over and the helplessness as a police officer to stand there and go \u201CThere isn\u2019t anything we can do. We can move you and we can hide you, but we can\u2019t actually empower you.\u201D, and exactly what this bill does is create that level of empowerment. More so\u2014commending Minister Goldsmith\u2014it is a piece of legislation that clearly creates the tools and the equipment and the opportunities to deal with this proactively, so that we can intervene early, we can intervene strongly, and we can let the offenders know that this is the line they\u00A0have crossed and actually make sure that when they cross it again, something really tangible happens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First strongly supports the principle of protecting New Zealanders from harm. We have committed to the advocacy of law and order. We are advocating strongly for legislation that listens to the public concerns. Most importantly, we want to see less victims. We want to see the opportunity that people are held accountable and cannot create more victims in their journey through their drunkenness of empowerment over the fact that they can hurt people and create that level of control over them. It is with great pleasure that New Zealand First commends this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u00227823b29cce644c70957688687f1011e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227823b29cce644c70957688687f1011e9\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. Firstly, I just want to acknowledge the speakers prior to me, and truth when it lands\u2014particularly when there\u2019s that real palpable emotion and story\u2014is important, among all the other emotions that rage in the House, particularly here tonight. This particular take [matter], I think, is a serious and good one, and, then, in saying that, our party supports the intention and looks forward to what we end up coming up with in the select committee process. I just want to open up with that statement, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EI just want to mihi, obviously, and recognise the inspiration behind the bill. And the wh\u0101nau of the young woman will be recognising the second anniversary of their daughter\u2019s passing. I won\u2019t say their name, but I want to acknowledge that, and that is so significant to what it is that we\u2019re considering. I won\u2019t speak to that for too long, except to recognise that in my k\u014Drero. Yet to the wh\u0101nau, I acknowledge the loss and recognise that this is something that will likely remain unhealed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EPart of my discussion tonight is I worked for many years teaching self-defence to women across the motu. That was one of my\u2014well, it\u2019s not a passion, because that makes it kind of\u2014it was a duty to do so. Many a story are there of trauma and violence but also, can I say, victory too. Now, I\u2019m telling their stories\u2014this isn\u2019t my story\u2014but I just to acknowledge that that\u2019s what comes back to mind in this particular speech this evening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EWhat does alarm me is the rates and the frequency in which young women fall victim to the predatory behaviour and stalking practices over their lifetime. Many of the young women in this House and our young daughters\u2014we think about them when we are talking about this particular issue, and we should think about them. We should think about what it takes to protect them. This bill lends itself to that idea, but I\u2019m always a fan of \u201Cteach your girls to defend themselves\u201D. Teach your girls. Show them. Show them. Demonstrate to them, at every moment that you can, that you are entitled to and that you have a right to defend and protect yourself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EIn these instances, though, it is a near impossible situation. While this bill will make it illegal to carry out three stalking actions in a year, it would also repeal the related offence. The speakers, I think, from Labour made that exact same comment, and that is still a concern. I think we need to think about that more carefully. In a sense, it makes it legal for stalkers to harass their victims twice a year. It won\u2019t be just twice a year; it\u2019ll be countless times, because they\u2019re not going to ring up and go, \u201COK, it\u2019s happening.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EMany, many of these reports and concerns go unreported. They go untold, and much of that is simply because you get tired of telling the same story and nobody believes you, or not enough people, and nobody moves to do something about it for you. That\u2019s just another point for us in this discussion. [Bell rung] Damn that goes so quickly!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand Women\u2019s Refuge has recorded the prevalence of stalking amongst their clients, many of our wh\u0101nau\u2014nearly 75 percent were stalked by their partners\u2014and a study conducted in 2004, which is only 20 years ago, found that stalking was a precursor to physical violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EWith a little time left, I just want to say we support the bill, we look forward to going to select committee, and I look forward to having much, much more to say about it. Kia\u00A0ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u0022cefb0c9af97b46918b93956823acf92b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cefb0c9af97b46918b93956823acf92b\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker\u2014and welcome, Mr Speaker. Look, I won\u2019t spend a lot of time. Colleagues across the House have covered off the substantive parts of the bill and have, essentially, outlined what\u2019s great about this House, and that is that the tone of the place can be one which is of unanimous support for a very important issue. You only had to listen to Minister Karen Chhour\u2019s speech to recognise how deeply many people feel about this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge that the tone of the House, in about 20 minutes, may well change. I\u2019d just like to reflect on that and hope that, as this particular bill goes through the House and comes to the Justice Committee, we will have a very thorough and robust discussion about it, that we can all think about how we\u2019ve come together on a particular issue where we\u2019re all trying to make an issue better for many people in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E With that, I will commend the bill to the House, and I look forward to its passage through the Justice Committee in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022f670467400a148e69e1d9b1d77d3a41c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f670467400a148e69e1d9b1d77d3a41c\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. This is a tough topic, and it\u2019s great that it appears that across the House we have some consensus that this is a matter which we need to progress and look at. I just do want to recognise the work that Ginny Andersen did in this space. The Minister of Justice said that this was not a priority until Ginny Andersen said, \u201CWell, it\u2019s my priority.\u201D The Minister of Justice has responded to that by putting this bill in, and it just goes to show that, you know, Opposition might be tough, but we can have a really positive effect. That\u2019s great.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI do want to also recognise a difficult fact, and that is that this bill is here in part because of some really tragic circumstances that the media has portrayed. I want to recognise Farzana Yaqubi, the young woman who was murdered in Auckland after a series of stalking incidents, which, it\u2019s recognised, the police didn\u2019t respond too well to and weren\u2019t appropriately recognised, and that this bill will address, will give powers and recognise the behaviours that led to that tragedy. There\u2019ll be powers there to address that and make sure it doesn\u2019t happen again, as it should.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EAs this goes to select committee, the job of select committee is to draw a line. The criminal law does draw lines, and this is actually quite challenging, because the lines are in some sense arbitrary in something like this, between behaviours which are nasty but not illegal and not criminal, and behaviours which cross that line and become criminal. I hope that people will submit on this, because that is a really tough question which requires input from our communities as to what behaviours we consider are so reprehensible that they can lead to a criminal offence which could result in five years in prison. On the other hand, we\u2019re not always kind to each other. We should strive to be, but we\u2019re not, and sometimes we\u2019ve got to let that go. That\u2019s a really important question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe other question that\u2019s going to crop up here, and it\u2019s one that I think the select committee should turn its mind to, is essentially one of intentionality. As drafted, as I read it, the question is what the offender\u2014the stalker, if you like\u2014intends, that the behaviours must be intended to have kind of an intimidatory effect. Now, I\u2019m not sure if that\u2019s actually the right test. I don\u2019t know, but I want to investigate whether we should flip that around and say, well, shouldn\u2019t we be asking the question \u201CIs the person who is the subject of that behaviour actually intimidated, and is the behaviour one which would be reasonably expected to be intimidating, invasive, and concerning?\u201D That may be the better test.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow, for criminal law, that\u2019s quite hard, right? In most circumstances, you require\u2014the concept of mens rea in criminal law is you intend to cause the harm. There may be behaviours which for whatever reason the perpetrator might think are permissible and shouldn\u2019t cause that kind of degree of anxiety, harm, and trauma, but they do, and that\u2019s quite challenging for the law to address.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThis won\u2019t be an easy bill for the select committee, and we need to listen carefully and strike that balance between good process and clear rules and really recognising the real harm that it causes to victims. It\u2019s a challenge, and I won\u2019t say I\u2019m looking forward to it, but I\u2019m prepared for it. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee7c7ff8203e49479542a77f12c53a2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee7c7ff8203e49479542a77f12c53a2a\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to join others across the House in supporting this first reading of the Crimes Legislation (Stalking and Harassment) Amendment Bill, and just reflect on Farzana Yaqubi, a beautiful Auckland University of Technology law student aged 21 who was brutally murdered on Royal Road, Massey, right in the heart of the Upper Harbour electorate, on 19 December 2022. Every time I drive down the North-Western Motorway, I see her parents\u2019 house and I think of them every time. They will be having a very sad time again, marking her second anniversary next Thursday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EAs has been canvassed, her ex-boyfriend brutally murdered her in daylight and was jailed for 17 years. The Independent Police Conduct Authority report that was released this year was damning, and it was damning of the fact that the police had inadequate risk assessment and didn\u2019t have the right tools to deal with the repeated stalking complaints that Farzana had made right up until about two weeks before her premature death. I\u2019m looking forward to working through this bill, hearing submissions, and I commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u002213347fa69a714011b6f59bf26a04990f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213347fa69a714011b6f59bf26a04990f\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Before I start, I\u2019d like to take a moment to acknowledge colleagues who have provided some commentary of personal experience, who have taken the opportunity to thank people who have done huge amounts of work in this area, or have taken the opportunity to commemorate and remember and share memories of people who have suffered through this insidious act of violence, which we are terming as \u201Cstalking and harassment\u201D, and all of the pervasive ways in which it affects people in our society. I acknowledge the fact we find ourselves here tonight at this hour of night, looking toward a process which can do something positive and set a new path and a new direction for people that experience these things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EStalking, as we\u2019ve heard, can end in really tragic circumstances, but before that, as tragic as that is, it can do things that simply erode people\u2019s freedoms and limit their social, educational, and professional opportunities. For a lot of people involved in those situations, and many of us will know of people or have been in those situations, the gaslighting, the uncertainty, and the stripping of one\u2019s individual ability to be able to tell the difference between whether what\u2019s happening is real or not or is serious or not is one of the most cruel things I think you can do to someone. That significant psychological harm shouldn\u2019t be overlooked as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWe know that evidence shows that 75 percent of Women\u2019s Refuge clients experience stalking pre-separation, and 65 percent of those Women\u2019s Refuge clients also experience stalking post-separation. I think that that\u2019s a statistic or a piece of information that really homes in on the fact that even people who take steps to do something to improve their situation can find themselves in no less of a perilous situation. Therefore, it\u2019s only right that this House provides them with some tools and with some legislative framework and some legislative means to protect themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party welcomes the introduction of this bill, and we do regard it as a long-awaited step towards addressing something that\u2019s incredibly, incredibly important. Unlike New Zealand, most comparable jurisdictions, including the UK, including Australia and the US, do have specific stalking offences, which obviously enables them to enact effective prosecutions and protections, and that is something that we should do also.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EI do want to acknowledge, though\u2014and I think it is fair to acknowledge it\u2014that it is only now, after sustained public pressure and clear evidence from those victim advocates that my colleagues have highlighted earlier on in this debate, that the Government has chosen to advance this bill. Whilst we are pleased that they have, and whilst we support the bill and we welcome this step, we do want to acknowledge that it would have been good if it had been prioritised. It is a choice to prioritise, and it would have been good if it had been prioritised and not simply discarded as something that would have been a \u201Cnice-to-have\u201D if it weren\u2019t for such a busy programme earlier on in the year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThere have been several people who have commented since it was known that this bill was going to be introduced. As my colleague the Hon Dr Duncan Webb has said, it won\u2019t be a straightforward process; it\u2019ll be a really technical process. Because it will involve some subjective interpretations, it will involve some discussion and some decision making around drawing lines, and around making decisions and what constitutes behaviours that will be caught up in this process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EI do, along with my colleagues, really encourage people to make those submissions\u2014those people with lived experience, those people with expertise\u2014because that can only enhance the process and make for a good bill in the end. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022 data-id=\u002281fb3ea277b24df3a2428eb48cad53bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281fb3ea277b24df3a2428eb48cad53bc\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E I too rise in support of the Crimes Legislation (Stalking and Harassment) Amendment Bill at its first reading, and I would like to start by acknowledging the Hon Ginny Andersen for the effort that she made in placing this subject in the members\u2019 ballot. Unbeknownst to many people, I too was working on a bill around the same time, and I\u2019m glad of the fact that our justice Minister has made it a priority before the end of the year, in reverence for the memory of Farzana Yaqubi and for all those thousands of people that signed that petition. Thank you\u2014thank you to you all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to say, if I may, in the language of the Middle East: Farzana Yaqubi, Allah yerhamik, Allah yerhim nafsik al bari\u2019, which means: may God rest your soul, your innocent, pure soul. We failed you by not having a law in respect of stalking in place, but may your memory live on, and we will do this for you and for many others. Ya Farzana, Allah yerhamik.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9fd970b42a54f9ca787f06f5ffe3f4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9fd970b42a54f9ca787f06f5ffe3f4d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Crimes Legislation (Stalking and Harassment) Amendment Bill be considered by the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227a9ef9aebaa6423cb789779a61245491\u0022\u003ESentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022358dbedb5471415cb868e7203cf7ea47\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022f52a546e2b1d478e89d1b10bcf3a5631\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f52a546e2b1d478e89d1b10bcf3a5631\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae54e009c8c845b1b132fd4b20409604\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b6a704e2c0b49ab8d6380ffb0f074fa\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThis bill gives effect to the Government\u2019s coalition and manifesto commitments to bring back the three-strikes sentencing law as a key priority in our work to restore law and order. Reinstating the three-strikes law sends a clear message to offenders that there will be significant consequences for serious repeat offending and that we denounce their actions. It recognises the harm to victims and communities that result from violent crime and makes it clear that this will not be tolerated. I also note that keeping these repeat offenders off the streets will contribute to this Government\u2019s commitment to 20,000 fewer victims of violent crime by 2029. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn broad terms, the bill will reinstate a three-stage sentencing regime with the offender facing increasingly tougher penalties at each stage. It will have the same overall structure and essential features as the previous regime. In general, offenders will be warned of the consequences of reoffending at their first strike and will not be eligible for parole at their second strike. For a third strike, offenders will have to serve their maximum penalty for the offence without parole. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe bill has now been reported back to the House from the Justice Committee, and I would like to thank the Justice Committee for its careful consideration of the bill, and the submitters who shared their views with the committee. In response to public feedback during the select committee process, Cabinet agreed to propose two changes to the bill for the Justice Committee\u2019s consideration. I welcome the committee recommending that these significant changes be made to the bill. I note that although these changes involve substantial drafting, they deal with clear situations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe first significant change lowers the qualifying sentencing threshold to above 12\u00A0months\u2019 imprisonment at stage-1. Lowering the qualifying sentence threshold at stage-1 addresses public feedback to make sure the regime properly targets serious offending so serious violent and sexual offenders face appropriate consequences. While this lower threshold means more offenders will receive first warnings, there will continue to be the higher threshold of above 24 months\u2019 imprisonment at stage-2 and stage-3 that must be met to trigger the regime\u2019s mandatory sentencing consequences. The Government considers this approach addresses public feedback and strikes an appropriate balance by ensuring the regime continues to be workable in practice and does not capture low-level offending. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe bill also contains additional technical and procedural changes relating to these amendments. These other changes mainly address when an offender has a conviction overturned or receives a new sentence above or below the qualifying sentence threshold after an appeal. For example, depending on their exact situation, an offender could either be given or lose a warning. These changes also address when an offender with a first warning reoffends and meets the threshold of above 12 months\u2019 imprisonment for a first warning but not the higher threshold of above 24 months\u2019 imprisonment that triggers mandatory sentencing consequences. In this situation, an offender will be given an additional first warning to reinforce the mandatory consequences they could face if they reoffend.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe second significant change to the bill involves reactivating warnings issued under the previous regime. This change addresses public feedback about making sure previously warned offenders face further consequences if they reoffend. The Government considers this change is appropriate to make sure offenders\u2019 warnings still count and are included where appropriate in the new regime\u2019s consequences. However, the bill provides that previous warnings will be reactivated only when they meet the qualifying sentence threshold. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI consider that this supports a consistent approach in how the new regime treats serious offending, even where that offending occurred during the previous regime. The Justice Committee also recommended further amendments to the bill to give effect to this change. These amendments set out how previous warnings will generally be treated under the new regime. For example, an offender\u2019s previous first warning will be a first warning under the new regime if their sentence is above 12 months\u2019 imprisonment. The bill also provides for exceptions to this general approach. For example, an offender\u2019s previous final warning could instead become a first warning under the new regime. This could occur when an offender\u2019s previous first warning does not meet the qualifying sentence threshold. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EAdditionally, the bill confirms that reactivated warnings are valid and not affected by how an offender was originally warned. The bill\u2019s existing appeal provisions also apply to any appeal against a reactivated warning. For clarity, I note the bill\u2019s mandatory penalties will continue only to apply to sentencing for offences committed after the new regime comes into force. Any offences committed between the previous regime ending and the new regime beginning will not be captured by the new regime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn addition to the significant changes I\u2019ve outlined, the bill has also been amended to reflect other recommendations by the Justice Committee, and I wish to briefly highlight three such amendments. Firstly, the guidance for the judiciary about applying the manifest injustice test has been clarified. In particular, the bill now expressly states that a court remains able to consider the mitigating factors in the Sentencing Act when assessing whether manifest injustice applies. Secondly, a person loses a warning when, in accordance with the bill\u2019s stipulations, they are granted a pardon for an offence they got warned for. Removing a person\u2019s warning is appropriate where a miscarriage of justice has occurred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ELastly, the bill also clarifies how the new regime interacts with post-conviction orders granted under the Criminal Procedure (Mentally Impaired Persons) Act 2003. A court cannot issue any order that would replace an offender\u2019s sentence of imprisonment when the offender is facing the regime\u2019s mandatory consequences at either stage-2 or stage-3. In regard to commencement, there is a six-month implementation period before the regime commences to make necessary operational changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EACT campaigned to reinstate the three-strikes regime, and this forms part of our coalition agreement, supporting this Government\u2019s commitment to restore law and order and to keep our communities safe. The bill, as reported back, ensures there are tougher consequences for serious repeat violent and sexual offending. I believe this supports the public having confidence in the new regime and enables law-abiding New Zealanders to feel safer. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8dbba73c2fc4bef8aa02f675ba1c2cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8dbba73c2fc4bef8aa02f675ba1c2cb\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u002210698f6a2ed94dcd8366ca9b302650a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210698f6a2ed94dcd8366ca9b302650a3\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. When this bill was introduced, we considered it to be probably one of the most poor, unfounded pieces of legislation imaginable, and then Minister Nicole McKee managed to outdo herself by putting in an Amendment Paper requiring the Justice Committee to incorporate amendments that made it even worse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI could not believe it when I heard her on Radio New Zealand saying that she had had a flood of emails into her office asking her to change it to make it so that it included previous strikes, so I asked her. I used the Official Information Act and said, \u201CShow me those emails\u2014that flood of emails you referred to on Radio New Zealand. Where are they?\u201D She sent me some emails to her office which were obviously prompted by an email to her supporter base, and do you know how many emails were actually addressed to her? Three. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b13dab4c4ea4c19a59fbff0be99c8fd\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Three? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f440c823acf458c99f6a6a07cf275dd\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: There were three. There were a few to Paul Goldsmith, a few to other ACT Party members, but to her the flood of emails that she relied on in putting in an Amendment Paper that makes this bill retrospective was three. She had the gall\u2014the audacity\u2014to go on Radio New Zealand and say, \u201CI\u2019m listening to a flood of public opinion in my office.\u201D I don\u2019t know what you\u2019d call that, but I know what I\u2019d call it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s the other thing. Actually, the close of her speech said a lot, because the real thing she referred to, the real reason for this bill, is the coalition agreement. She went on the hustings and she said, \u201CWe\u2019re going to bring back three strikes.\u201D, just like they do, and that\u2019s what she\u2019s doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll tell you the other reason why she\u2019s doing it\u2014yeah, exactly. There is no other reason because there is no evidence that this is better for victims, there is no evidence that this is better for offenders, there is no evidence that this is better for the justice system, and there is no evidence that this is better for society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWhat we have is a doctrinaire and dogmatic party which has got the National Party, which doesn\u2019t really believe in this, to do its bidding, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022726ca5ee73794e4a947291d06e727fa7\u0022\u003EHon Matt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: You can\u2019t say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7426f4d6a174134807b5f9758170739\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, you should be ashamed of yourself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271cfb3c2f7d549cdb420f542bd7b3b20\u0022\u003EHon Matt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: You can\u2019t say that, because\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223971945cc01a4771b48c7448233510cf\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: I can say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ef76c4d59234625bb9f6bd3a60e08ab\u0022\u003EHon Matt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: You can\u2019t say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a64801ae83bb485da2950310846a5d50\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you take a point of order, Matt Doocey. If you don\u2019t like it, you take a point of order, because under that coalition agreement your party is doing the bidding of the ACT Party across the board. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2d3c9f11d734551a1cf6bef53b04944\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Shameful! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289a247719af84c6d919d9603f165e474\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Yep, that\u2019s right. For the baubles of office\u2014the baubles of your office\u2014this is the price that New Zealand paid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWe sat through select committee and we listened to a lot of thoughtful submissions\u2014submissions from the Children\u2019s Commissioner, submissions from the New Zealand Law Society and the Law Association, submissions from across civil society\u2014and none of them thought that this was a good idea. And do you know what? The most offensive thing\u00A0about this is that we repealed the three-strikes regime that was in before and we wiped that slate clean, and so all of those people who did have a strike are currently, as it stands today, on zero strikes, and under this regime they will retrospectively have those strikes reinstated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow, retrospectivity in some situations is pretty rugged, pretty problematic, and you look at it carefully, but in the criminal law, when people\u2019s liberty is at stake, to go backwards in time and say that things which happened in the past\u2014and it\u2019s in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. The New Zealand Bill of Rights Act says that when you come to sentencing, if there are different sentences in time, between when you committed the offence and previously, you\u2019re entitled to the lower of those sentences, and that is for good reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s the other thing: all of those people out there who think that they\u2019re clean-slated, that they have zero strikes, what are we going to do to tell them that things have changed? This bill, flawed as it is, is about deterrence. This bill is about people knowing they\u2019re on strike number one or number two and altering their behaviour, so we\u2019d better tell them that their strikes have been reinvigorated\u2014that they\u2019ve been returned. What does the bill say about that? Nothing. The so-called deterrence effect is zero, because they won\u2019t even know. I don\u2019t think they\u2019re watching, right? That is really, really offensive because, all of a sudden, you\u2019re worsening people\u2019s position substantially, and it\u2019s not my theory; it\u2019s your theory\u2014the theory that offenders take into account the consequences, the increased penalties, that they might face. Now, if you believed in that theory, you would actually tell them that the consequences just got worse, but they won\u2019t\u2014they won\u2019t do that\u2014and it makes the whole bill incoherent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe other thing is this: this bill is a significant change to our sentencing structure, and the process\u2014the bill itself, when it was introduced, was sent to the select committee in haste. We had a truncated process, and then here we are now, in urgency, before Christmas, late at night. We\u2019ve got the committee of the whole House stage next, and I see the Minister has put an Amendment Paper, possibly more\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014on the Table because she hasn\u2019t yet got it right, and do you know what? Maybe doing it right and following good procedure would be a good idea, but this Government isn\u2019t interested in good procedure. It\u2019s not interested in getting things right. It\u2019s not interested in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act; it\u2019s just interested in getting into office and actually making sure that it has the baubles of office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EOf course, the other thing is this. If you look at the advice\u2014I mean, the Government is not actually interested, and I put this to the Secretary for Justice the other day. This Government has passed numerous Acts to date which make the position of M\u0101ori worse off, and here we go again. The regulatory impact statement again made it clear that this was not consistent with the Treaty of Waitangi, that it would have a disproportionate impact on M\u0101ori, and that it was not recommended. I mean, the Ministry of Justice thought this was a bad idea, but this Government is not interested in that. It\u2019s not interested in evidence; it\u2019s just interested in dogma.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI guess the only redeeming factor is that this bill isn\u2019t quite as bad as its predecessor, but the fact is that having a two-year sentence as the triggering factor will be distortionary in and of itself. There\u2019s this fatuous section in the bill which says that a judge should not have recourse to and should not take into account the fact that there will be a strike imposed\u2014as if a judge can take something out of their mind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe bill is flawed, it has no evidence, it\u2019s retrospective, it breaches constitutional principle, and it\u2019s an ACT Party bill with a National Party covering. It\u2019s a shocker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00225b62340b046c451e878e7a10aad74e46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b62340b046c451e878e7a10aad74e46\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. There are so many issues that are wrong with this particular bill on multiple fronts, but I think I will start with the very foundation of our political system and in terms of the Westminster system and Western democracy and the concept of the separation of power. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EWe have that for a reason. We have checks and balances between the legislature, the judiciary, and the executive for a reason. We have the principle of comity that the Hon Shane Jones likes to talk about a lot in this House for a reason, but this bill fundamentally goes against all of that. This bill is an overstep of the executive power into the judiciary. And a number of experts have identified that in their submissions: the New Zealand Bar\u00A0Association, The New Zealand Law Society, and, let\u2019s see, the South Auckland Bar Association. These are people who are experts in the field of legality and judiciary, and all of their submissions unanimously said, \u201CWe oppose this bill.\u201D Why? From the judiciary\u2019s perspective, who have to put up with the consequences of this bill, it was awful for them. It was terrible for them to have to manage it the first time around. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EIn one of the submissions, in terms of what the judiciary said, they said that when it comes to providing deterrent in the case or talking about the three-strike law in the case\u00A0of R v Campbell, the court commented, \u201CIt may seem very surprising that this consequence could be required by lawful and defence of this kind. But that is the law and I have no option but to enforce it.\u201D That is an overreach; that is not conforming and not respecting the principle of comity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s not the only issue we have with this particular bill. We have seen it in case law over and over again in terms of the violation that this legislation, the first time around, had on our fundamental New Zealand Bill of Rights Act (BORA) in Aotearoa. In the first time around, we saw numerous instances of the violation of section 9 of BORA, which is the right not to be subjected to torture and cruel treatment, and that was particularly evident in the Supreme Court\u2019s ruling in the 2021 case of Fitzgerald v R. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThat was not all. We have said that when we received the departmental report, when this bill first came to select committee, the departmental report said that, \u201CWell, you know what? At least it\u2019s not retrospective.\u201D Well, guess what? The select committee, despite the advice from the officials, despite the advice from the public, despite the advice from some members on that select committee, decided to introduce retrospectivity, which, again, is fundamentally against section 26 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThis is no small matter. We have seen this Government violating the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act\u2014our fundamental bill, one of the fundamental documents in Aotearoa New Zealand\u2014over and over again. Some may say, \u201CLook, this bill is different. This bill has changed. We\u2019ve introduced some safety valves that potentially will manage it.\u201D\u2014but not in some of the cases I have just listed. In the case of Fitzgerald v R, if you\u2019re looking at Schedule 2 of this bill, clause 135 on indecent assault, in terms of whether it\u2019s severe or not, it\u2019s still one of the 42 qualifying offences, which is what got the Fitzgerald v R case the way that it is in the first place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThat is from the perspective of legality, and that is from the perspective of theory. Maybe some people are like, \u201CWell, what\u2019s the big deal? What are we going to see in our communities?\u201D Not a lot\u2014not a lot as a result of this bill. This is not going to be helpful. You know, in many of the submissions we have seen from lawyers, from experts, from community leaders, they said this bill will not help in terms of driving down crime. Even the statistical modelling that we have seen from the previous sessions suggests that this provides no significant deterrent for reoffending crime. What we will see is that we will see an increased number of prisoners in our prisons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225243723fd2324b91bed1656a4f9d2666\u0022\u003EHon Matt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right, and then they can\u2019t commit crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8527f2d9c06479e9db37f5648d6b5a7\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you know what, to the honourable Minister, it\u2019s not so much about increasing\u2014well they can\u2019t commit crime, you\u2019re right, but you are kicking the can down the road. You know what else is the problem here? We have seen the previous time that introduced it\u2014[Interruption] Take a call and use your full 10 minutes, Government members. The last time this was introduced, at stage-1, 63\u00A0percent of offenders were M\u0101ori; at stage-2, 82 percent of offenders were M\u0101ori; and at stage-3 level, 81 percent of offenders were M\u0101ori, and this Government wonders why we say prison is the only housing policy they have for M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThis is not the only issue, though. Increasing the number of prisoners is only one part. We are also going to see a backlog in the courts if you\u2019re going through the bill. As we go on to the committee stage, we have a number of amendments on this bill because the back and forth that the court will have to do to determine various levels of warning and various levels of appeal is convoluted to say the least. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EWhat is the support to our already struggling court system? Yes, there is a bill currently going through the House on increasing our District Court judges by one, but that is not going to add any help to the staff and to the people who are currently working in the court system. It\u2019s not going to add any help to the already struggling legal aid system that we have in Aotearoa. In fact, we are actually going to see more people potentially on remand as a result as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EAnother point that we\u2019re seeing is in terms of community, and I will talk about other submitters as well, but I want to first speak from the perspective of the offender. The Green Party of Aotearoa believe that the best form of rehabilitation is if we have a restorative justice system, where those who do offend\u2014our prison wh\u0101nau\u2014feel like the society still wants them to be a part of it. This bill does nothing to address that. What is going to happen to an offender, Minister for Mental Health, when we are seeing that they have a sense of neglect, when they feel let down by society, when they feel like, \u201CYou know what, the society is against me anyway; screw it, I\u2019ll just do whatever, I don\u2019t really mind.\u201D? That\u2019s not how we reintegrate people into our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EFinally, we also heard submissions from those who have been victims of this, and crime is never OK, and we are always going to be speaking for our victims. However, when we asked them how they know, by evidence, that this bill is going to help drive down the crime, and what evidence they have of that\u2014other than maybe make them feel like crime is going down\u2014there was no response, because this is not the way to do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EFinally, the Green Party will not be supporting this bill. This bill fundamentally undermines the constitutional arrangement of Aotearoa New Zealand. It also does not provide any form of safety for both the victims and offenders, and we will be gladly debating a lot of these points in the committee stage to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b87f63e6bd9b4961926ac84769e8565b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b87f63e6bd9b4961926ac84769e8565b\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It didn\u2019t take long for the tone to change, but here we are. I want to start my contribution by indicating that the National Party, obviously, supports this bill and will support it through its passage tonight or maybe tomorrow morning\u2014let\u2019s say tonight, all going well. Because we are going into the committee stage after this, and once we vote in favour of the second reading, I think it would be an opportunity for all in the House to have a good look at the bill and to make a contribution and to try and explain to the public what we\u2019re trying to do here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EWhile members opposite do make some good points around the purpose of the justice system\u2014part of that is rehabilitation, and part of that is deterrence\u2014part of our criminal justice system is detention. Part of it is taking bad people, dangerous people, harmful people, off the streets and keeping members of the public safe, albeit for a limited time and albeit for limited purposes, but part of the reason we have a criminal justice system in this country is to detain people and to keep people safe, and that is what this bill tries to address.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThere are other pieces of legislation and there are other policies out there that, over the course of the next three, six, nine, 12, 15 years\u2014who knows?\u2014will address other issues in the criminal justice system: bills like the Corrections Amendment Bill, now the Corrections Act, which introduced rehabilitation for prisoners on remand; bills like the sentencing reforms, which will limit discounts on sentences; other bills around social investment and the Social Investment Agency, which will create a world-leading environment where we invest early, we invest often, and we prevent these harms from happening in the first place. But those bills are for another day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EToday is where we are talking about the three strikes legislation, a great piece of legislation from this coalition Government, led by the able Minister Nicole McKee. I\u2019m looking forward to the committee stage where we can address these issues, where we can put the case to the public, where we can vote on the bill, where we can move forward to the third reading, and we can vote it into law so that we can keep New Zealanders safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022 data-id=\u002276f8b8d06aa9473cb9ceac3411053fbe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276f8b8d06aa9473cb9ceac3411053fbe\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I had carefully put together notes to provide a logical and supportive argument for this bill, and then I listened to some of the contributions across the House. After we\u2019ve just finished talking about this need to pass legislation to protect victims, how it\u2019s so important that we intervene and we provide greater protections, and we\u2019re so keen to pass laws to make more protections available\u2014but sometimes, when bad people do bad things, they need to be punished. Sometimes, when bad people do bad things, they do them again and again, and while you stand up there across the other side of the House speaking about the rights of offenders, yet again we hear crickets around the rights of the victims. If you want to hear about protection for M\u0101ori, then protect them from M\u0101ori who are offending. That is the point of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First believes that we should go stronger; that sometimes\u2014sometimes\u2014you have to ensure that people\u2014that society\u2014are protected. When you have been to the situation where you have seen the victims who have been victimised by those who have just got out of prison, who are continuing to offend, who have no empathy or warmth for the vulnerable in our society, who have the sense of entitlement that the punishment means nothing, then sometimes you have to make tough decisions and not just continue to pass more legislation that tinkers at the edges. We have to commend the Associate Minister of Justice the Hon Nicole McKee for having the integrity to stand up and say enough is enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003ENow, we don\u2019t say this is the solution to end all crime. There is a range of initiatives that need to be dealt with. It is the improvement of education. It is getting the scourge of methamphetamine out of our societies. There is a whole range of things around housing that this Government will deliver and is delivering, but right now we have more and more victims. After six years of increasing violent crime, after six years of victims being created left, right, and centre in this country, finally we\u2019re standing up and going, \u201CWe will stand up for M\u0101ori. We will make sure that victims are not being made by those who care not an iota.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EThat is why the three-strikes legislation is important\u2014because sometimes the grown-ups have to stand up in the room and go, \u201CBad people do bad things, and sometimes the victims have to be put first.\u201D New Zealand First completely commends this bill to the House, and we look forward to the committee of the whole House stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022 data-id=\u002294de656c4e7b471f82d6c46ef0e1cef0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294de656c4e7b471f82d6c46ef0e1cef0\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka, otir\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. E t\u016B ana ahau ki te waha i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero m\u0101 Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i te p\u014D nei. E tuku mihi, e tuku aroha, e whakaaro nui ana t\u014D m\u0101tou p\u0101ti ki ng\u0101 wh\u0101nau, ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata kua p\u0113hia e ng\u0101 t\u016Bkinotanga o te w\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Speaker, indeed greetings to all of us in the House. I stand to give voice to the statements of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori this evening. Our party sends our acknowledgments, our compassion, and our thoughts to the families, the people that are oppressed by recent abuses.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EI want to extend our absolute aroha to any victim and wh\u0101nau of victims\u2014period. Even more so, I want to mihi to the police and to the many police officers whom we\u2019ve been in constant communication with\u2014local police commanders, officers\u2014even in a bipartisan, bi-party approach, too, in those different hui, in finding a way and a solution to make sure that they and our wh\u0101nau are safe in our communities, and what this looks like, moving forward, with this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EI thought it would be ideal to take my two cents\u2019 worth on being a rangatahi M\u0101ori being profiled and what those experiences are, and I reflect hugely on question time today. In this House, I asked Ministers on the huge impacts of how the police enforce their gang legislation, as we have seen recently in Wellington and Auckland, where rangatahi M\u0101ori have been profiled and arrested at gunpoint on the suspicion\u2014suspicion\u2014of gang affiliations that were\u00A0never proven, and this relates purely to this bill because there is no denying that our criminal justice system is institutionally racist and unfit for M\u0101ori in Aotearoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori suffer unequal outcomes at every level, and we are more likely to be stopped, searched, and arrested and convicted than anyone else. I want to speak to my own experiences as to why I asked that question today in question time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200acc721dde34ec2a3303061fbffeb87\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as it relates to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb16c843c6e2486c8b39b06850945b34\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE\u003C/span\u003E: As it relates to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fcd7e20c40945a1adcb92db41eea257\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: And with frequent references to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022408c21129b8540ca96042b89a0c2b863\u0022\u003EDavid MacLeod\u003C/span\u003E: First strike! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9c4e7f607114253b8303416b0aa1e82\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE\u003C/span\u003E: Really? See, this is what I\u2019m talking about\u2014this is actually what I\u2019m talking about. I can say \u201Chakuna matata\u201D and this House will get\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe706acabac54502bb0e6eeebaf3c856\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: That reflects\u2014if you can just say that reflects on the member that made that comment and leave him to reflect on that himself, but you reflect on the bill, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a85c3e0ce0e747ae95ab6c5775856e46\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE\u003C/span\u003E: I will carry on. Can my time be stopped?  Despite being 20 percent of the population, M\u0101ori are 37 percent of the proceeded-against by police, 45 percent of people convicted, and 52 percent of the people in prison. In 1988, Moana Jackson\u2019s groundbreaking report He Whaipaanga Hou exposed the deep root of racism at the foundations of our criminal justice system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EThat is precisely how the Ministry of Justice summarised the strikes in its regulatory impact statement: \u201CReinstating a three strikes regime would exacerbate the overrepresentation of populations which are already disproportionately represented in the justice system.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EI get so emotional sometimes around how it feels being a rangatahi M\u0101ori and having firsthand experience of racial profiling, and today I was so flabbergasted at the fact that it was being gaslighted as if it doesn\u2019t exist. Then I reflected and realised that, no, they wouldn\u2019t even know what it feels like. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EThey don\u2019t know what it feels like to be a 12-year-old rangatahi going to the movies and actually being called up by the police for doing absolutely nothing. They wouldn\u2019t know what it feels like to be stopped every so many weeks because you are in a community in Huntly and not in Wellington. You don\u2019t know what it feels like at a non - gang-affiliated tangi to have five cops turn up for absolutely no reason\u2014and even to the point where I\u2019m questioned before entering this House whether or not I\u2019m even an MP. Many people actually have told me, \u201CBut you might not be ready for Parliament.\u201D Well, guess what: Parliament wasn\u2019t ready for me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EThis is what I\u2019m talking about\u2014the racial profiling that we experience. We\u2019re not criminals, but we are overrepresented by the justice system. So I think it\u2019s finished, but I\u2019ll be carrying on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022 data-id=\u0022691c4f5614324f69bb34631818aa8086\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022691c4f5614324f69bb34631818aa8086\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai. Otir\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koutou katoa. I stand to oppose the three-strikes legislation. I, like my teina Hana-Rawhiti, struggle in this area because we have lived experience in racial profiling, having experienced it myself, too, as a young person. You\u2019d be just casually hanging out in town, then you\u2019d get taken home by the police, and yet you were doing nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EYou see, three strikes is an imported system from the US, a country that incarcerates more people than anywhere else in the world. That\u2019s what we\u2019re hanging our hat on, as New Zealand. We\u2019re importing someone else\u2019s system, instead of looking at the fact that there are\u00A0other ways to rehabilitate and restore a sense of connection by looking at the back story of those who are incarcerated, considering that they may suffer from mental health addictions, or they may have been victims of abuse, family violence, disability, literacy and numeracy issues\u2014the list goes on. And they\u2019re M\u0101ori in prison\u2014we can\u2019t ignore the facts. The three-strikes legislation is putting more M\u0101ori in prison. That\u2019s our MMP\u2014more M\u0101ori in prison\u2014because this is a noose. This is an \u0101here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003ETo hear that this is going to be retrospectively implemented and to know that for 12\u00A0years\u2014through the 12 years that this was in place, it\u2019s going to come back, and it\u2019s going to bite our wh\u0101nau in the tero, because they should not have to bear the burden of that period now, in 2024. It\u2019s outrageous to think that now we have legislation that the Crown officials have already recommended that we don\u2019t implement because there\u2019s no evidence base to show that this is actually going to work and because it\u2019s so punitive that it\u2019s t\u016Bkino. It\u2019s going to hurt both the offenders and the wh\u0101nau. The ripples are large, and yet we have the select committee saying, \u201CHey, not only go forward, but also make it retrospective.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EOur mauhere are people. Our mauhere\u2014those are our prisoners\u2014have a back story, and we are building mega-prisons. We are going bigger; we are going better. That\u2019s what we\u2019re doing, because that is the new industry for housing M\u0101ori. It\u2019s building the mega-prisons. MMP\u2014more M\u0101ori in prisons\u2014kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EWe have to go back and look at what the Crown officials said. They said that \u201Con every measure, the reintroduction of three strikes will exacerbate existing issues including the over representation of M\u0101ori, Pasifika, and young offenders in the justice system.\u201D How is that right? How is that OK? Actually, you\u2019re getting advice from your own officials, who have the evidence base, who have the understanding, and who have the policy background, saying \u201CKia t\u016Bpato.\u201D, engari k\u0101hore e whakarongo ana [\u201CBe cautious.\u201D, but you\u2019re not listening]. You\u2019re not listening, because the officials are telling us, clearly, \u201CKia t\u016Bpato.\u201D [\u201CBe cautious.\u201D]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EIf we were to look at a system where we had more opportunity for the judiciary to exercise their own discretion in terms of the way that they exercise their powers, that could actually be quite good, rather than saying, \u201CChop\u2014strike one. Chop\u2014strike two. Chop\u2014strike three; you\u2019re out.\u201D If we look at the history of it, 81 percent of those who were impacted by three strikes during the 12 years of legacy of what it was for 12 years were M\u0101ori, and M\u0101ori were nine times more likely to receive the first strike. I\u2019m a M\u0101ori; there are a few M\u0101oris around here. We\u2019re likely to get the first strike too, above anyone else, and we\u2019re 18 times more likely to receive the second strike, because that\u2019s on our shoulders\u2014you don\u2019t know the story. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EYou don\u2019t know what it\u2019s like to be in town, just hanging out with your mates, and then, next minute, you\u2019re the one getting asked questions like \u201CWhat are you doing in town?\u201D \u201CWell, I\u2019m in town with my mates.\u201D, but, next minute, you\u2019re being driven back in the police car, and you\u2019re getting in trouble with your parents because, somehow, you must have done something wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EThe police have been profiling our people for ages. Even this year, the police missed their own deadline. They were meant to delete the thousands of photos they took of our youths, but they didn\u2019t\u2014they missed the deadline. It\u2019s sitting on their cellphones. They\u2019ve been sitting there, taking photos of our people for years, and yet we have a Government that has said, \u201CNa, we\u2019re going to do this to you, and it\u2019s going to be \u2019three strikes and you\u2019re out\u2019, because we\u2019re putting more M\u0101ori in prison.\u201D He ture m\u014Drikarika t\u0113nei. [This is a horrible law.] \u201CM\u014Drikarika\u201D means horrible. It\u2019s ruthless, it\u2019s vile, and it\u2019s t\u016Bkino, and what we stand for, as Te R\u014Dp\u016B K\u0101k\u0101riki, is fairness and justice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022de12ae082b014e5196ea602385d19e29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de12ae082b014e5196ea602385d19e29\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This is another example of this coalition daring to deliver on its election promises. This has been well signalled. This three-strikes reinstatement has been well signalled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EOn 27\u00A0October 2022, Paul Goldsmith, National\u2019s justice spokesperson, said that he would reinstate the three-strikes law, and then in June last year, Stuff reported that National had announced it as policy, with Mark Mitchell saying that the return of the three-strikes rule would stop offenders from reoffending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EHe had reason to say that because the New Zealand Herald reported that after the Labour Government had repealed the Act\u2014at that time\u201413,400 people had been convicted of the first strike, 744 people were on strike two, and 26 criminals had three strikes to their name. It was 13,000, 700, down to 26\u2014does that sound like a deterrence policy working? I commend the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022e76ec3200a6a48df956204bbb0e65f46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e76ec3200a6a48df956204bbb0e65f46\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E That was a riveting speech from Cameron Brewer\u2014thank you so much! It\u2019s a privilege to be able to take a call on the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s important that we talk about the process of this bill, because it has been a fascinating process. I was quite struck when we started getting submissions at the Justice Committee and we had one particular group who gave a lot of submissions, and that was the Sensible Sentencing Trust. They gave submission after submission after submission. There were so many; they sort of had a template, and we got flooded. We had to decide how we were going to deal with so many at one time. When I started taking a look at the submissions that we\u2019d received from the Sensible Sentencing Trust, they were all opposed to the bill because they didn\u2019t think it was strong enough. In fact, they thought it was a weak bill that had been watered down. In particular, for people who had already received a strike under the previous regime, they wanted those strikes to be reinstated. They also wanted a widening of, I guess, the catch of who would be captured by a strike.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI can remember thinking, well, that\u2019s pretty embarrassing for the ACT Party, and probably National as well, that their sort of flagship \u201Cbe tough on crime\u201D policy has an advocacy group such as the Sensible Sentencing Trust sending in form submissions telling the Government and the Associate Minister of Justice that it\u2019s just not strong enough; it\u2019s a watered-down, weak piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s very interesting when we go and look at the Cabinet papers that are now online, the different ones, and the different Cabinet papers being brought and the changes that the Minister then brought the Cabinet after the select committee process had concluded. It\u2019s after the select committee process concludes that changes are then made to make this legislation retrospective and to, effectively, reinstate strikes that were received under the previous offence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ENone of the other submitters had the opportunity of submitting on that change, and it seems to be quite a common theme, particularly with that Minister, that small groups who get the ear of the Minister are able to dictate specific Government policy and bypass a democratic process. That is what is most concerning about this bill, that the Minister was so persuaded by one lobby group and was embarrassed by the fact that the Sensible Sentencing Trust thought it was a weak bill, that she went to Cabinet and she changed the recommendations by making this bill retrospective. Therefore, a whole lot of people who don\u2019t even know that they were going to have their strikes reinstated will have that done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EOne of the most, I guess\u2014I dare to call it a comedy moment, but it was actually pretty sad when we had officials explaining to us how those people who had a strike but now\u00A0don\u2019t will get informed that they\u2019ll get it back again. They won\u2019t find out, I understand, until they\u2019re actually back in front of the court. When they\u2019re in court and\u00A0they\u2019ve done a strikable offence, the judge is kind of going to be like, \u201CSurprise! You\u2019ve got three now\u2014ha!\u201D That, in terms of rights, in terms of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act\u2014there\u2019s a bunch of people out there right now who, probably, ACT and National could do a great comms strategy on. You could find them and do some flashy tiles on social media and say, \u201CHey, guess what? If you got\u00A0stung under the last one, it\u2019s back again. You need to know this if you\u2019re going out there.\u201D If you\u2019re wanting the deterrent factor of this legislation to be effective, I\u2019d be really interested to know whether you\u2019re going to undertake a comms strategy of informing those people that\u00A0they\u2019re up for a second or third strike already.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThere are three main reasons why this bill didn\u2019t work the first time, and those reasons haven\u2019t changed when it comes back a second time. The first is that it\u2019s based on the principle that a deterrent factor works when all research shows it does not work. In fact, when this bill was brought in the first time, by the ACT Party again, back in the early 2000s\u2014oh, no, it was a while ago\u2014the Ministry of Justice, in 2018, in an evidence brief recorded the crime rates for the three highest-volume three-strike offences, which were serious assault, sexual assault, and robbery offences. They did that from 1996 to 2014, and, based on the trends in the recorded crime rates at that time, it was concluded that there were few changes that could be attributed to the three-strikes law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe last time this bill was enacted and working in New Zealand, it had not reduced serious offending at all in any way that could be demonstrated by the analysis undertaken by the Ministry of Justice. Quite simply, the idea that there is a threat of a bigger punishment coming does not register for criminals. If this Government, who wants to talk about really strengthening victims\u2019 rights\u2014if this was a Government that was serious about having fewer victims in our system, if this Government was actually serious about reducing reoffending, they would look at the evidence that demonstrates reducing reoffending and evidence that demonstrates people being revictimised. None of that evidence points towards a deterrent factor. It\u2019s only the fact they get to look tough in the media and on TV, and that\u2019s what they like. It appeals to the voter base that they look like they\u2019re doing something and ticking a box when in reality there\u2019s absolutely no evidence it actually reduces victims in our system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESecondly, the main reason is it stops the judiciary from doing their job, something this Government quite likes to do\u2014it happens quite often. Under three strikes, judges have got a curtailed ability to be able to do the job that they\u2019re there for, and that is a real concern. Courts already have the ability to impose sentences equivalent to those under a three-strikes regime. Preventative detention would be one, for serious repeat offenders. Public protection and extended supervision orders would be another. Minimum periods of imprisonment, another one; maximum penalties, up to life imprisonment. Those already exist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe third reason why this is a stupid idea is that it disproportionately represents M\u0101ori, as we\u2019ve already heard tonight. M\u0101ori are already significantly overrepresented in our prison system. Under the last regime, of the 23 offenders who did receive a third strike and got that maximum penalty, 81 percent were M\u0101ori\u201481 percent of those 23 third-strikers were M\u0101ori. What this does is it further entrenches inequities in our society, it further causes repeat offending, it causes more victims in our community, and it actually does nothing to address the root causes of crime in our community. In a country where methamphetamine consumption has doubled in the past year\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022765c0ba5f4c94e9dad3e054edf09a8d9\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014point of order. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Now, I just wanted to take a moment to find the correct Speaker\u2019s ruling before I raise this. I\u2019m taking a point of order. The member in her contribution just a couple of moments ago talked about\u00A0the Government having been dictated to with its policy by an outside body. Speakers\u2019 ruling 55/5 makes it quite clear that it is not in order to suggest that the Government is dictated to by an outside body. That is a clear breach of the Standing Orders, and I\u2019m sure the Speaker would wish to uphold that by having her withdraw that comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf6b663f07944c80a5bae904fab8833e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: A long bow, Mr van de Molen\u2014a long bow. Carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284fd7013cb7d4f31982a77627d4f3094\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Getting back to the point\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b52c311701414477bb61f9ffc1c407ff\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226827af8dc3a4f26a151edfd437b9a2f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve made a ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238cd7c794bc7404a8dd227754569b1d2\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: This is a new point of order. Yes, I\u2019m seeking your clarity on whether you are directly ruling out the current Standing Order that specifically uses the language that the member used that I have just referred to you. Are you making a new Speaker\u2019s ruling overruling the current Speakers\u2019 ruling?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229789e26f1c504647a5f2e7bec5d21da4\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: What I\u2019m doing is putting things in perspective. What I do in the Chair is listen to what the speakers are saying, and when they do get near the edge of what is permitted, that is how I rule in this way. Therefore, if I were to go to the letter of the law on all of these, we would be stopping all the time. I admire the member for his ability to follow these things in detail, but I\u2019m ruling that in the context of it, I\u2019m happy for it to continue. But thank you for your observation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022478fe1501bdd41b5abf0de66e1d83c8f\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fc9741c49354bdc8b92ff867da400fa\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The clock was stopped for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022035b2738be8c4956b54d8ae1faac5656\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, let\u2019s talk about things that we know that do work, because that\u2019s quite interesting. The alcohol and drug treatment court: that would be one example that has worked under both Governments, that\u2019s got demonstrated results, that actually works and turns around people\u2019s lives, stops victims from becoming revictimised, and stops offenders from offending again and again, because it gets to the root causes of crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ETe Pae Oranga justice panels: 24 funded under the past Labour Government, that goes to what is the early on offending, particularly offending for M\u0101ori communities, and how can we address that offending early on to stop those people coming back to the justice system again and again and again. How do we stop that wasteful spending in terms of taxpayers\u2019 money on imprisoning people, and how do we stop those people going on to commit more crimes and revictimise people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe bill we are doing today does the opposite to all of that good work. It does the opposite to that. It is hung up on looking tough and making it look like there\u2019s actual work being done when the reality is it sweeps it under the carpet. It revictimises people. It is detrimental to M\u0101ori communities, and it actually causes more victims in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThat is what gets me the most: the fact that we have a Government that stands up and says they are for victims\u2019 rights, they want to do this in the name of strengthening those protections, but they introduce legislation which all evidence demonstrates they are doing the complete opposite to what they are preaching. The reason why they stand up and take points of order is they don\u2019t like to hear the truth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022 data-id=\u0022346026813f824232826528157a479eb7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022346026813f824232826528157a479eb7\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m elated to stand up and speak in support of this bill, the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill. The reason why I use the word \u201Celated\u201D is because I\u2019m reflecting on one of the submissions that was made when we were listening to submissions from the public on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EThere was an associate professor from one of our universities. She submitted, and\u2014since the Labour Party are pontificating about how many submissions were against this bill\u2014this associate professor, Dr Donna Cormack, in her oral submission added that she\u00A0is of the view that all prisons should be abolished, and I found that quite curious. She adds\u00A0this in every submission she makes, so I asked her, in all seriousness, \u201CDr Donna,\u201D\u2014and I\u2019m paraphrasing\u2014\u201Cif all prisons were closed tomorrow, would you be OK with this?\u201D Her answer was \u201CI would not be OK; I would be elated if all prisons were abolished tomorrow.\u201D This is the calibre of some of the submissions that the Opposition are really proud about\u2014that all prisons should be abolished.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EI think about Gurdeep Singh in Papatoetoe, who was attacked by someone. That was their 15th offence when their hammer struck his body all over and he was trying to protect his family. I think of Gurdeep Singh when I think of the fact that we need laws like this. I commend this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00224b1765ae9e724743862c8b66a470dc2c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b1765ae9e724743862c8b66a470dc2c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the next speaker, and with a little bit of retrospectivity to Ms Andersen and that last comment. Given that you had been the beneficiary of what I\u2019ll admit was a marginal call, possibly it was not in the best taste.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022d40b0dd6e86e4c5a8786dda659440b15\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d40b0dd6e86e4c5a8786dda659440b15\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Mr Speaker. Well, look, we\u2019ve been here before, haven\u2019t we? This is almost as if we\u2019re back on retread, because this is a piece of legislation that was introduced previously, it had been struck down, and here we are with it back on the agenda again. Yet another example of a Government on a backtrack and in the wrong direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWhat will this bill actually do? Let\u2019s remind everyone. Someone who receives a second strike will, effectively, be required to serve the full sentence that the judge imposes upon sentencing. Someone who gets a third strike will serve the maximum penalty under the law, regardless of the circumstances or the context that is given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis is a policy that, yes, actually has been proven\u2014it has been proven that it does not work. Throughout the select committee process, the information that was received is that this is a policy that does not work. Yet this is a Government that seems intent on progressing it none the less.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWhy are they doing it? Why are they progressing this policy? Well, because they want to put in place these harmful, retrograde policies on the basis of their coalition arrangement with one of their minor parties, rather than on the basis of actual evidence in terms of lawmaking. This is an unworkable policy, and this is something that was received through the select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m not a member of the Justice Committee, but I have read the committee\u2019s report. I note that there were a large number of submissions, but I also note that it was a truncated select committee process as well, which is unfair. However, we have hope that when we do get on to the committee stage this evening and tomorrow, the chair of the select committee has said that he expects all members to be up taking a call to \u201Cput the case to the public\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8be3779534d4995812c45a99697803d\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Hear, hear!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc43185bb7f94af9965857c38312153a\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, \u201CHear, hear!\u201D indeed, because we are going to finally hear from members opposite, as part of the committee stage process, every single aspect that they believe needs to be said, rather than sitting like a bunch of kookaburras like they have been for the last few hours. What we look forward to is actually making sure that they are ensuring that they are contributing in that. We all look forward to the contributions that they will have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI want to reflect on the many submissions that we received, but some of the individuals that\u2014the previous speaker, Rima Nakhle, kind of just ruled them out as if they had nothing sensible to say. The position of the Government is that they\u2019re wanting to basically indicate that the views of the Children\u2019s Commissioner are not important, the views of the New Zealand Law Society are not important, the views of the Pacific Lawyers Association are not important\u2014and they say that this will create perverse outcomes from Pasifika and M\u0101ori communities. I look forward to hearing, when we get to committee stage, the contributions from members of the Government\u2019s Pasifika caucus in terms of how this will have an impact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254bff6ee194c443a9f58f0c2f5563c48\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Who\u2019s that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd03305778b2428b8b37150db0035730\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: Who\u2019s that? Oh, I forgot they don\u2019t have anyone over there from the Pacific caucus. Well, they need to reflect on\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9d3381acef2492b9bb3612cf41e98d5\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Not one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227723b6796f104b7fb82414d5af66a508\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: Not a single person\u2014not a single person\u2014not one. And that\u2019s not even rounding up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWhat they need to do is consider the submissions that have been received from all of these organisations: from the Human Rights Commission; from Te Hunga R\u014Dia M\u0101ori o Aotearoa, the M\u0101ori Law Society; the Law Society. They are all singing a very similar tune, and it\u2019s that this is a bad policy, this is a bad idea. And so I invite members opposite to consider that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ETo add some, I guess, salt to the wound as part of this process, I was absolutely astounded to hear from Dr Webb in his contribution that the Minister\u2019s late additions by way of these Amendment Papers, these fantastical changes that she seems to be spouting about, came as a result of direct intervention with her office. Tahi, rua, toru\u2014we don\u2019t go much further than that; three is the number of emails that the Minister received that suddenly changed her mind around this as to why you needed to, half-way through a select committee process, basically turn it on its head and change it all up. That is an absolute disgrace in terms of that consideration. This is a select committee process that should be open to everyone. To have the Minister respond to three emails and use that as a justification for her change\u2014a significant change in terms of looking back, a retrospective approach for it\u2014is just astounding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWe look forward, on this side of the House, to hearing the multiple contributions that members opposite will make, but at this stage, this is not a bill that we will continue to support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022 data-id=\u0022803a317dd19b402386f24cfce7d8b20b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022803a317dd19b402386f24cfce7d8b20b\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill restores the three-strikes regime. What that does is it allows for the justice system to issue a strike when a sentence is given, after a conviction has been arrived at over a person who has been charged. The committing of the crime results in the charge and conviction and the sentence, and at the sentence the strike is given. The strike is given to people who are repeat, serious, and violent offenders each time that they commit an offence, so it\u2019s not the law that puts the person in jail without reason\u2014a crime is committed, a person goes through the process and is convicted and sentenced, and the strike is issued. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u00229ec5df98f8594067a8adf87b14162c55\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ec5df98f8594067a8adf87b14162c55\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. If there was ever a bill that was the epitome of taking New Zealand backwards, it most certainly is this one, in so many different ways: it reintroduces a policy that we already know doesn\u2019t work, it\u2019s shallow, it\u2019s vacuous, and it creates this dichotomy, or this contrast, that you can\u2019t somehow be out there protecting the rights of victims and yet still want to do something to get to the root of why crime exists in the first place. For me, listening to a Minister of the Crown not being able to get the difference between those two positions makes me feel very fearful about what\u2019s going on on that side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EIt is rhetoric, and you can forgive people who don\u2019t work in this building, people whose job isn\u2019t to make legislation, people whose job isn\u2019t to think about the big picture, for going, \u201CI feel some dissonance. I feel uneasy about the concept of crime and criminals. I don\u2019t know what to do about that.\u201D Then someone comes along and says, \u201CWhy don\u2019t we just lock them up? Three strikes is fantastic.\u201D, and they go, \u201CPhew! Thank you\u2014problem solved.\u201D Now, it doesn\u2019t do anything; it doesn\u2019t solve the problem. I can forgive people for thinking that that is a genuine thing to happen. What I can\u2019t forgive is that there are actually members who sit in this Chamber\u2014there are members and Ministers of the Crown\u2014who also believe that that is true. It is, again, vacuous, it\u2019s lazy, it\u2019s rhetoric, and I feel that people should feel quite embarrassed about themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThis is an example of a Government implementing, as we\u2019ve heard, a policy on the basis\u2014only on the basis\u2014that it suffices a coalition agreement, and what a shaky ground on which to put something into legislation, something that we know didn\u2019t work last time, that we know won\u2019t work this time. We understand the Minister has made some changes, but it\u2019s still lipstick on a pig. We know it won\u2019t work, and yet that is why we\u2019re doing it. We repealed three-strikes last time we were in Government, and rightly so, because the evidence was incredibly clear that it simply didn\u2019t work as a deterrent, nor did it make the public feel any better. You\u2019ve got two ends of the continuum: does it work as a deterrent; does it make the public feel any safer? Those are both genuine things that need to happen, but when this doesn\u2019t do either of those things, it is a complete waste of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258305ff495df4f57bf525b8915073425\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Labour is soft on crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224aeeaae087d14e4f80a768ffb7e3bda7\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not about being soft on crime at all, because that is a vacuous comment, and you know it\u2014you shallow, shallow person.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe select committee heard a large number of submissions against the bill, and we\u2019ve heard about that from previous contributions: the Children\u2019s Commissioner, the New Zealand Bar Association, the Pacific Lawyers Association, the Human Rights Commission, the New Zealand Law Society, the M\u0101ori Law Society, the Law Association, and many, many more. There is nothing\u2014how would one say it? There\u2019s just something special about the overconfidence of people who think they\u2019re more expert than the people who are actually experts, sitting there grinning from ear to ear as if they\u2019ve suddenly come up with this fantastic idea and they know more than the expertise of the experts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe Law Society submissions stated, again, that there was \u201Cinadequate evidence to suggest that a three strikes sentencing regime provides [either a] general deterrence\u201D\u2014and we know that\u2014\u201Cor increases public confidence\u201D. That is a second submitter who said that. Official advice from the actual Ministry of Justice also opposed the bill. So on what basis was this going forward? It was just determination, wasn\u2019t it? Absolute determination to talk to a certain voter base to say they\u2019re tough on crime. Well, my goodness, do better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe regulatory impact statement says, \u201Cthe Ministry of Justice prefers the status quo rather than a new three strikes regime due to \u2026 lack of evidence that the proposal would be effective at addressing repeated serious violent offending or sustainably improving public confidence in the justice system\u201D. What\u2019s left? What are you achieving? It just seems silly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bb28fe16b284255a7e08adc3e2bbde7\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Bad people locked up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a14b8b7219d4bce9d25140148a30fc9\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN\u003C/span\u003E: And they get out and then they commit some more crime, and it doesn\u2019t actually make any difference, because you treat them that way\u2014because you treat them that way. Of the submitters\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a03394b6c11f4bc5a5fa6a2e11db98e0\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s why we want to stop them\u2014she gets it!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b84b61b9cc674b46b0af9018d524ffe4\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014because you treat them that way. We know it doesn\u2019t work as a deterrent. As we heard earlier on, if people are retrospectively going to have a strike or two strikes and they don\u2019t even know it, how can the deterrence factor be in play? It just doesn\u2019t make sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe bill will heavily restrict judicial discretion, and I think that that is a slippery slope as well. It enables judges to consider individual circumstances of each case, and as we\u2019ve heard, it will result in about 89 new prisoners per year. Some people may be surprised that that seems like a large number or a small number. They may be expecting that it was made fewer; they may be expecting that it\u2019s way, way more\u2014way larger. The point is that this is not an investment in addressing the root causes of crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe bill is not consistent with the Crown\u2019s obligations under Te Tiriti. It will disproportionately impact M\u0101ori, and the regulatory impact statement again says that \u201Cthe disproportionate impact on M\u0101ori would result in divergent effective rights\u201D. That\u2019s not something we should take lightly. It\u2019s not something to scoff at on a Thursday night, to pat yourselves on the back and think you\u2019ve done something wonderful for justice. You haven\u2019t. The bill provides discretion in the case of manifest injustice; however, the whole purpose of the bill is to impose intentionally disproportionate sentences. And I just think it\u2019s incredibly difficult to see how that wouldn\u2019t be manifestly unjust in any case where the sentence is substantially higher.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019ve heard from previous contributions, the Minister herself, the Hon Nicole McKee, gets halfway through this process\u2014literally halfway through the process\u2014and, on the most flimsy of conditions, on the basis of no evidence whatsoever, going out to the media and trying to sell it as if she had been listening to people, trying to sell it by literally saying that via the select committee process she had decided to make amendments because that was somehow the will of the people. It turns out to be just rubbish: three emails\u2014three unique emails\u2014to that Minister from the Sensible Sentencing Trust, who the Minister clearly wanted to please, and on the basis of their being not in favour of this, on the basis of their thinking it didn\u2019t go far enough, the Minister decides to impose an element of retrospectivity which was clearly not in the original intention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003ESubmitters didn\u2019t get to comment on that. The process was already truncated and quick and cheap and dirty, just like this piece of legislation, and halfway through, a really, really significant change was made on the basis that the Minister received three emails. Do a little bit of thinking about the weight of that pressure. Do a little bit of thinking about the disproportionate nature of the weight of that advice or the weight of that feedback compared to all of the other feedback through the proper select committee process. It doesn\u2019t make sense. This reflects an unprincipled approach to policymaking, and there\u2019s simply no two ways about that, where the Minister introduced the bill and said we are ensuring the new three-strikes regime is not retrospective, that strikes from the previous regime will not be carried into the new regime, and then, on the most flimsy of bases, just makes that amendment based on three emails. The Minister should feel ashamed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EOnce this bill is passed, there will be many people with one or two strikes, as we\u2019ve said, who simply won\u2019t know the conditions they now face. We\u2019ve heard other bills go through this House this week where the issue of notification has been brought up, and in this piece of legislation, where the ramifications and the penalties and the circumstances that people may find themselves in are so grave, there has been no thought\u2014not even a passing thought\u2014for the fact that it may be the responsibility of the State to contact people to let them know that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EAs I said at the very beginning, this is the epitome of a bill that is legitimately conceived of as taking us backwards. It\u2019s vacuous, it\u2019s silly, it\u2019s single-mindedly determined to follow a coalition agreement rather than doing what is best for our justice system and to reduce\u00A0crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5595c6ff6b3492b96fa9b7724e7d5fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5595c6ff6b3492b96fa9b7724e7d5fe\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m very pleased to be the last\u2014and maybe everybody in the House here is pleased that I\u2019m the last\u2014speaker in this second reading of the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EAs second reading debates are, it\u2019s about the select committee process, and I do want to start by acknowledging the Justice Committee, a very hard-working committee. I understand that they\u2019ve already reported 14 bills back to the House, with another 14 that are in process, including another member\u2019s bill: so a very hard-working committee from across the House there. Also to Hon Nicole McKee for sponsoring this bill and bringing it forward\u2014and I do note the amendments that have been made through the select committee process, as well\u00A0as the amendments that have been agreed at a Cabinet level that have been brought before us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EEverybody\u2019s keen to get through to the committee of the whole House debate, and I can see there\u2019s plenty of questions gearing up around the House here itself. All I want to say is the criminal justice system\u2014it\u2019s about deterring offending. It\u2019s about deterring reoffending. It\u2019s about, also, providing reform, which I have heard on a number of occasions. I think that is actually a really important part of the justice system. Most importantly, it\u2019s also about keeping our community safe. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f41b887ccd9d45bb9e0112f1d490c6a4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001358\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022f888eb68180f41d29bc10a49368c4b87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f888eb68180f41d29bc10a49368c4b87\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill is set down for committee stage immediately. I declare the House in committee for consideration of the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022258f1319864343f99f8241654dcc698e\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022340a011219fd4d5794e2d8e6e91b7e57\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to Sentencing Act 2002\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022973ec4f56d0142fba4a81fdd1f9e4589\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022973ec4f56d0142fba4a81fdd1f9e4589\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Right, members. The House is in committee on the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill. We come first to Part 1. Part 1 is the debate on clauses 3 to 12, \u201CAmendments to Sentencing Act 2002\u201D; and Schedules 1 and 2. The question is that Part 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022c753d012f00e4aec9f739666ee6d632c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c753d012f00e4aec9f739666ee6d632c\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. In terms of Part 1, we\u2019re going to go clause by clause. I want to start with, and ask the Minister, I guess, about the most fundamental bit. Let\u2019s start with clause 3. Now, I have a number of amendments for this bill overall because of the complex interaction between the Sentencing Act 2002 and this particular bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EMy first question, only looking at clause 3\u2014there are a number of issues in here, and I\u00A0think a number of inconsistencies with various parts, and we\u2019ll go through those. Overall, as we\u2019re going through this bill and as we have completed the select committee stage\u2014with additional insertions and additional amendments being made by select committee\u2014I\u00A0want some, possibly, reassurance from the Minister that consistency between the Sentencing Act 2002 and also with this particular bill has been met. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, the other reason I mention that is because within the Sentencing Act and also this particular bill, there are numerous instances of requirements for minimum term of sentencing. Particularly, in some areas\u2014and I don\u2019t know the section of the Sentencing Act off the top of my head\u2014it specifies that when you\u2019re looking at the maximum term of sentence, it can\u2019t be less than 10 years, but there are a number of issues in here which don\u2019t quite add up. That\u2019s just to give a very, very brief example. Again, I\u2019m happy to find the exact section number and come back to the Minister for specific points. Overall: has there been a consistency check between the two, and particularly with regards to the new section?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe other thing I want to go on to\u2014other than clause 3\u2014is starting with clause 4, and I want to particularly address clause 4(2), in terms of the definition of \u201Cpermanent court record\u201D. I had a look at the Criminal Procedure Act 2011 and the definition and the use of \u201Cpermanent court record\u201D in that particular Act. What is different over there is the fact that in the Criminal Procedure Act, I would have read \u201Cpermanent court record\u201D, in those contexts as specified in that Act, as indeed permanent but in the context of this bill, we can see in certain cases a warning being retracted. That kind of defeats the purpose of \u201Cpermanent\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI have an Amendment Paper on this particular part\u2014if the Minister wouldn\u2019t mind considering it\u2014which deletes the word \u201Cpermanent\u201D, purely on the basis that there are instances where such a record would not be permanent. Also it\u2019s to acknowledge that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b394b1615b3a4e5b853f570d69062569\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Xu-Nan, it would be helpful if you could reference the number of your Amendment Paper as you speak to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d55e77d2efd461ab21a1b7ba09ac152\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry\u2014it\u2019s a tabled amendment, so I don\u2019t know if there is a particular number.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248180330c5894431913d9d5134d8aafe\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I\u2019ve just found it\u2014I understand it doesn\u2019t. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222304bdfcf9f04a1da365750ce6b1393b\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah\u2014it\u2019s the first one: to delete clause 4(2) and amend clause 7, new section 86K(2)(b).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221800eb30c08a4f8fad1752bb69dcddb4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: OK. The first one. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227266485ece28457aa66ab43fa194e058\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: In this case, it also acknowledges and reflects that the warning system and standard criminal proceedings are also fundamentally different. Those are the two questions I have for the Minister to start. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u00221227a344c62e4226b48f5b61c5557436\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221227a344c62e4226b48f5b61c5557436\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. Thank you to the member for your questions. In regard to your tabled amendment to delete clause 4(2) and amend clause 7, new section 86K(2)(b), we\u2019ll not be supporting that, and the reason why is because the term \u201Cpermanent\u201D is consistent with other statutory language used about the court record. Warnings are given into the official court record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022a74925812aab4f4b981f8b7bc06cbef0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a74925812aab4f4b981f8b7bc06cbef0\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Before I get into the detail of this legislation, I want to give the Minister an opportunity to, on the record, address her motivations for directing the Justice Committee to alter its approach and make it retrospective and change the first-strike threshold.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI am really concerned that she went on Radio New Zealand and said that there was a flood of emails\u2014they weren\u2019t her exact words, but that was certainly the inference. If the Minister\u2019s going to go on and say that there\u2019s a flood of emails, I\u2019m going to ask for them. She provided a number of emails, only three of which were actually addressed to her. Many were forwarded to her, some were to her colleagues in the ACT Party, some were to her colleagues in the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s one\u2014the quality of them was this: \u201CItem 1 Offenders who commit murder at second or third strike will receive an appropriately lengthy non-parole period. Not good enough. What does appropriate mean? One year, up to 20 years? Why not state a minimum sentence of, say, 10 years?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI mean, if that is the kind of evidence that this Minister takes into account when instructing a select committee\u2014which she shouldn\u2019t do because she\u2019s the executive and we\u2019re Parliament\u2014then I\u2019m really concerned. If she is going to change tack, as she seemed to in her public statements, and say, \u201CNo, it was the burden of evidence before select committee\u201D, does she not think it\u2019s the select committee\u2019s job, of which the Government has a majority, to sift through the evidence to determine what the appropriate changes are?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow, I am really concerned that the Minister, when she said she had a flood of emails, either she did not provide all the emails she referred to when she responded to my Official Information Act request, or when she was speaking to Radio New Zealand was not being fulsome. Really, what she was referring to was the fact that, at select committee, the Sensible Sentencing Trust had hundreds of form submissions\u2014and, in fact, that\u2019s what she was responding to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI think the Minister has an obligation to respond; to say, \u201CIn fact, this is why\u2014\u201D. Now, if it was her own policy work, a bit like Casey Costello; perhaps she had a document she found on her desk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5d66caa492e4a6a9ca37cd120702f4a\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Relevance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3750e29484e47d7b238e949e0da6df7\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Pardon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022938127e1e3bc4505b8d94c6618d78383\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Get to the bill, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c671271aa424fbba1d0ed6270b521ed\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no, this is about the major change of direction\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227695b21afd3e493e9ec7dd61feb78b85\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh no, I accept all the questions you were asking to that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca3fe53f09954dccb4a2482afbfe7787\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: The point is this: halfway through the consideration of this bill, we made a significant shift of direction, and I want to know what the basis of that shift of direction was\u2014whether it was the three emails actually addressed to her, or whether it was the form submissions from the Sensible Sentencing Trust, or whether it was something else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8432fe38824424dafde0002ed0f3565\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8432fe38824424dafde0002ed0f3565\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you to the member for asking me this question, because it allows me to correct the misinformation that has been pushed across this Chamber with reference to a radio interview that I did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI did not at any stage refer to a \u201Cflood of emails\u201D, as the member continues to say in the Chamber. I referred to the fact that I had received emails and that I had also received other correspondence. The fact that this member actually wants to stand up and litigate over and over and over again the fact that the emails numbered three, using\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3da49d8ecd74ea49dcf4a8766913780\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: If the members on this side could just let the Minister speak, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022407aca613cad4507a30fccee5d246068\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014words that were not actually used by me, then I think that will speak to the quality of the debate ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac874fa5e50f4847b38236ae53c33d2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac874fa5e50f4847b38236ae53c33d2a\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I thought I\u2019d try and bring the debate back to the actual bill and the clauses in Part 1 that we are supposed to be debating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI did want to address Dr Webb\u2019s point. I recall he was there at the Justice Committee throughout, but the committee made a decision after considering the evidence and also receiving the Associate Minister of Justice\u2019s views on whether or not the committee should support some changes. The committee thoroughly considered those thoughts, and we reviewed the evidence and we reviewed the submissions, and the committee voted to make some amendments to the bill, at which point the bill came back to the House and the House also endorsed those amendments. I think that should clarify that for Dr Webb, in case he couldn\u2019t remember what the process was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI wanted to just very quickly get us through into the actual bill. Part 1, of course, starts at clause 3 and goes through to clause 13, I think, and the first couple of clauses\u2014I just want to check that the Minister agrees that they, essentially, summarise what parts of the principal Act are amended and a very short interpretation section, and then we can, hopefully, move on to some of the substantive content in the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u002278f553a753364730b3aa9a2b3f15a3cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278f553a753364730b3aa9a2b3f15a3cd\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Following on from the previous speaker, James Meager, I think one of the key things we also need to address here is that, regardless of what people will say, on the majority of the select committees, the Government does have a majority, which is what we are seeing in the introduction of this particular bill, where it says \u201Ca majority\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EHowever, also, as part of my second reading speech, I would like to fundamentally remind this committee that, as a legislature, our role is to scrutinise and provide checks and balances for the executive. It will be imperative for governing members on that select committee to also thoroughly consider the bill itself rather than being led by the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225df50e705cfd45a69a33c730e5ab91e1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Now, that\u2019s a bit of a bold statement, and it doesn\u2019t line up with what Mr Meager just said, so we won\u2019t go down that track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229538d034b6e6441da746e6ed1c50c5e2\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is the majority and the majority did agree to it, but I do agree with you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s undeniable that the majority of the Justice Committee are Government members and how they interact with their Minister is not for me to comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI will, however, ask a follow-up question to Associate Minister of Justice McKee, and this is to do with clause 5 of the bill. I also would like to see if the Minister\u2014and I will double check the clause as well\u2014has any comment on my first question around checking for consistency between the Sentencing Act and this particular bill in light of the additional amendments post select committee and if the Minister can offer any reassurance to this committee as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EIn terms of clause 5, one of the things we see throughout the bill, with regard to the term \u201Cmanifestly unjust exception\u201D\u2014I\u2019m curious to know from the Minister, when we are looking at the definition and particularly when we\u2019re looking at the exception, using what is considered manifestly unjust, what is the Minister\u2019s intent when the Minister states \u201Cnevertheless regard the offence as worthy of a stern sentencing response.\u201D? What does \u201Cstern\u201D imply is the expectation of the court in this particular case? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI think that overall\u2014and I would like to speak to my tabled amendment to delete clause\u00A05\u2014when we are looking at if a stern sentencing response is required, as suggested in section 8(2), in clause 5, then it actually defeats the purpose, in a way, of what is considered the manifestly unjust exception in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI would ask the Minister to remove this particular provision and particularly when we\u2019re looking at section 8(2), in clause 5 of this particular bill, because I think the manifestly unjust exception is clear enough without having the need for subsection (2) to confuse the whole clause 5 with the \u201Cstern sentencing response\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022239c348468db4d13877ead24a3dcd663\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022239c348468db4d13877ead24a3dcd663\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you to the chair of the Justice Committee for his question, which was looking at Part 1 and the first few clauses within it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s very apparent is that the old three-strikes regime did not work in a way that\u00A0benefited those that were caught up within the system. We need to make sure, as a country, that we have significant consequences for those that commit serious crimes. The changes that we have made are mostly seen within Part 1 so that we can still make sure, or ensure, that there is consequence and that it is serious enough and that we keep repetitive criminals out of our society when they continue to create harm and fear within it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ENow, as an example of this, under the old regime, there were over 20 people\u2014I thought there were 24; someone else had mentioned earlier tonight there were 27\u2014serving a third strike. What I do know is that of those people, they averaged between them over 70 convictions each\u201470; seven zero. We are talking about the worst of the worst here. What we need to make sure that we are doing, and we\u2019ve done this within Part 1, is ensure that those that have committed those serious offences are taken out of society so that our communities can be safe, feel safe, and go about their daily lives. The changes that we have made in clauses 5, 6 , and 7 actually speak to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWhat became apparent in the old regime is that people were caught up with lower-level offending, even though they committed crimes within the 40 serious crimes for which they were eligible to be sentenced, and so making the changes that we have made in Part 1 was to ensure that that lower-level offending was not going to be captured and that we really did make sure that we only caught those people that were recidivist violent criminals that were not learning their lessons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ETo the member from the Greens, Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan, in respect to your tabled amendment to delete clause 5, and your question about the manifest injustice, I will not be supporting your amendment. The three-strikes regime will actually override the Sentencing Act. This ensures that the offender will still face serious consequences for offending that meets the three-strikes threshold. In regard to your question about consistency, I have absolute support for the officials who would have ensured that the consistency was there when bringing this paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5e1a8c601214b3ea6b472a44b7bc2ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5e1a8c601214b3ea6b472a44b7bc2ea\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m interested in Associate Minister of Justice McKee\u2019s opinion on Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause\u00A06, new section 82A(1), replacing \u201Cmust\u201D with \u201Cmay\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWhen I refer to the bill, in clause 6, inserting new section 82A, it proposes, \u201CAdditional consequences for certain repeated offending must not be taken into account in determining length of sentence\u201D. I\u2019m interested in the Minister\u2019s opinion: does the proposal by the member to change \u201Cmust\u201D to \u201Cmay\u201D provide the necessary deterrent to people who consistently commit offences\u2014as the Minister said, 70 or more, Mr Xu-Nan\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221740fd38a4f1401ea02169593e928969\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Doctor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da1e287646c94839ba421cd5432859d3\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Mr Xu-Nan. Does the Minister agree that Dr Xu-Nan\u2019s proposed amendment to change the legislation from \u201Cmust\u201D to \u201Cmay\u201D provides the necessary deterrent when \u201Cthe length of a sentence of imprisonment to be imposed on an offender for a stage-3 offence [of] murder, a stage-2 offence, or a stage-1 offence, the court must not\u201D\u2014Dr Xu-Nan\u2014\u201Ctake into account the consequences \u2026 the offender [might] face\u201D? That is because, Minister, I might presume, the offender should face the full force of the law, Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u00228b1e17534ea441bbb8728a4d6f8ada24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b1e17534ea441bbb8728a4d6f8ada24\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for that question about the tabled amendment to clause 6, new section 82A(1), replacing \u201Cmust\u201D with \u201Cmay\u201D, that has been lodged by the member Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan from the Greens. We will not be supporting that tabled amendment. The reason for that is because \u201Cmust\u201D is \u201Cmust\u201D. We are talking about New Zealand\u2019s most serious violent and sexual community, and they are out there creating harm in our communities, and it\u2019s going to stop. It must stop. It not \u201Cmay\u201D stop; it \u201Cmust\u201D stop. When we are talking about these people, these people have committed crimes that fit within a regime of what will be 42 offences, serious violent offences. We want this requirement, and we\u2019ll ensure that this requirement is there in all cases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002274ee97b2205c4397815292a9b3e9f361\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274ee97b2205c4397815292a9b3e9f361\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I\u2019d just like to get some further information from Minister McKee in relation to Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s new sections in there that specifically provide for first warnings and the qualifying sentence imposed for a stage-1 offence. It also spells out that the first warning is to be given if a sentence of imprisonment between 12 and 24 months is imposed for a stage-2 offence. I think it\u2019s really important, because we were a bit confused at the Justice Committee when we asked these questions of officials, so we\u2019d be really grateful if she could shine some light on it. What actually happens, operationally, in a courtroom when there is somebody who\u2019s been charged with an offence that qualifies as a stage-1, as specified under Part 1, clause 7\u2014it\u2019s the new section 86K(2)(a). Someone who is up now for that, they qualify for that, but what if they had a previous first strike, or what if they had previously had two strikes? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI would like to understand, first of all, whether the administrative records that are kept are able to accurately show that they\u2019d previously received one or two strikes, and whether there is sufficient information in a courtroom, whether it be the police prosecutor or the courtroom administration staff, to have access to that information to know that that person had actually previously had a first or a second strike. The reason I ask that question is that when this regime was introduced the first time, there was a real problem with implementation, and some of the questions we were asking in select committee seemed to indicate that this same problem could rear its head with this set up the way it is here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe problem we had when this was first implemented was that, when a person appeared before the court and was being charged with a strikable offence, unless the Crown prosecutor was notified that that in fact was a strikable offence and that, when making the case to the judge, they had to say, \u201CYour Honour, this person\u2019s up for a strikable offence\u201D\u2014if the Crown prosecutor failed to do that\u2014that person walked off without receiving a strike on their record. That was problematic. There were sometimes strikes being missed because there was not an adequate integration between the Ministry of Justice, the courts, and the New Zealand Police in order to accurately capture that. There was a running tally we would have to keep of how many strikers had got away, and then we had to draw straws about who told the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI would like to know, given the added complication that this situation now provides, which is this retrospective legislation reactivating all of those prior strikes, how can we be reassured, and how can the public be reassured, that there is an adequate integrated data set that captures that information in a way that a person who is going to be held accountable under this legislation is informed of that and is aware of that when they\u2019re seeking legal advice, when they\u2019re presenting their case before the judge? I\u2019d like to know who informs the accused that they\u2019re up for whatever strike they are\u2014how that information is conveyed. Secondly, how do we know that there\u2019s an accurate capture of that information? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s incredibly important because I would like to know from the Minister if there is a comprehensive list of all of those people who previously received a first, a second, or a third strike; and if they have contact details for all of those people; and if her ministry intends to reach out to all of those people and to give them the information, in order to\u00A0deter them from committing any more crime and creating some more victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EFinally, I\u2019d like to know, what if they had a third strike? Do they go back to one again? Is it start again, go back to go, don\u2019t collect $200\u2014is that the case? If they\u2019ve had three strikes, do they go back to one, or are they just getting another strike? Is it continual strikes? Are they always eligible for that maximum part? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022b614ecd70db048c5b258a0850770f244\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b614ecd70db048c5b258a0850770f244\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I\u2019ve read through the tabled amendments that have been lodged by Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u201425 related to Part 1; almost all of them related to clause 7. I\u2019m keen to understand Associate Minister of Justice McKee\u2019s position on whether she will be supporting those amendments from Dr Xu-Nan or not, and, if not, then we can return to the substantive parts of the legislation that we\u2019ll be continuing to progress through. I\u2019m keen to understand from the Minister whether she\u2019ll be supporting the 25 amendments put forward by Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u00223e9bfac0be70426882728f30fca4cbbd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e9bfac0be70426882728f30fca4cbbd\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll go through the member Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendments that have just been referred to by the member Tom Rutherford, especially the ones that relate to clause 7. There is the tabled amendment to clause 7, replacing \u201C18\u201D with \u201C25\u201D in new section 86J. I will not be supporting this, because it already matches existing law with regard to sentencing. It\u2019s the same as the previous regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll now look at the tabled amendment to clause 7, replacing \u201C12\u201D with \u201C24\u201D and \u201C24\u201D with \u201C36\u201D in new section 86J, and I will not be supporting this one. This is in relation to new sections 86J(a)(i) and 86J(b)(i), inserted by clause 7\u2014I will not be supporting this. We think that the existing thresholds already strike the right balance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn regard to the tabled amendment to clause 7, deleting text from the definitions of \u201Crecord of first warning\u201D and \u201Crecord of subsequent warnings\u201D in new section 86J\u2014it\u2019s quite a big one, so I won\u2019t go through all of it, but it\u2019s about Schedule 1 and clause 7. We will not be supporting this one. We think that the existing thresholds, again, strike the right balance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to the tabled amendment to clause 7, inserting \u201Cphysical\u201D into the definitions of \u201Crecord of first warning\u201D and \u201Crecord of subsequent warnings\u201D in new section 86J, we will not be supporting this tabled amendment. We believe that the member actually misunderstands this is about the legal court record. New section 86N, inserted by clause\u00A07, requires the offender to receive a written notice of the warning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn regard to the tabled amendment to clause 7, amending new section 86K and 86M to specify that warnings must be given in person, we will not be supporting this, because the offender must already be before the court to get the warning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to the tabled amendment to clause 7, amending new section 86K and 86L to add the word \u201Cdeterminate\u201D, we will not be supporting this one. We just believe it\u2019s unnecessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to the tabled amendment to clause 7, deleting new section 86KA, 86U(2A), and 86U(2B), we will not be voting for this one either. The additional first warning is necessary if a first warning falls away on appeal and to reinforce consequences for the offender.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to the tabled amendment to clause 7, amending new section 86L to remove reference to stage-3 offences, we will not be voting for this. New section 86L, inserted by clause 7, refers to \u201Cstage-3\u201D to ensure offenders get an additional subsequent warning if they commit another third-strike offence. We need to keep reinforcing these consequences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to the tabled amendment to clause 7, amending new section 86M(1) to replace \u201Cthat\u201D with \u201Cthe\u201D, we are voting this one down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9fbf428e8aa47bb9d2b4df6b1c31e30\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Any reason, Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d995553ba58d450eb1b01a5465198bd9\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the reason why is because\u2014it says, \u201CIn clause 7, new section 86M(1), delete \u2018that\u2019. \u2026 new section 86M(1), after \u2018before the court at\u2019 insert \u2018the\u2019.\u201D\u2014I don\u2019t think it\u2019s necessary. There\u2019s no comment for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to the tabled amendment to clause 7, amending new section 86M(3AA) to replace \u201C12\u201D with \u201C24\u201D and \u201C24\u201D with \u201C36\u201D, we will be voting this down. The current thresholds, we believe, strike the right balance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to the tabled amendment to clause 7, amending new section 86M(5) to require a judge to check that offenders understand the nature and consequences of warnings, we will also be voting down. The courts will be doing this anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to the tabled amendment to clause 7, amending new section 86N(3) to delete paragraph (b), we will be voting this down. The oral warning is the primary warning that the offender receives. The written notice is a written reminder and it also reinforces to the individual that they have received that warning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to the tabled amendment to clause 7, amending new section 86O to replace \u201C24\u201D with \u201C36\u201D, we will vote this down. We think the existing thresholds in the bill, again, strike the right balance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to the tabled amendment to clause 7, deleting new section 86O(2) and 86R(3), we will not be voting for this. Offenders should face serious consequences for repeat offending. There is a \u201Cmanifest injustice\u201D exception.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to the tabled amendment to clause 7, replacing new section 86P(2), we will not be voting for this. The bill provides that offenders who commit murder face appropriately lengthy sentences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to the tabled amendment to clause 7, amending new section 86R(6)(a) to replace \u201C2\u201D with \u201C3\u201D, we will not be voting for this. It\u2019s a misunderstanding, we believe, of the provision. Preventative detention remains available in the usual way, the same as the previous regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to the tabled amendment to clause 7, amending new section 86S(2) to replace \u201C18\u201D with \u201C12\u201D and \u201C20\u201D with \u201C17\u201D, we will not be voting for this. The bill provides appropriately lengthy sentences for murder at stage-3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to the tabled amendment to clause 7, amending new section 86T(2)(c) and inserting new paragraph (d), we will not be voting for this. We believe it\u2019s unnecessary because the court can already do this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to the tabled amendment to clause 7, amending new section 86V, we will be voting this down. It\u2019s not duplicative; these are about something different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to the tabled amendment to clause 7, amending new section 86X to delete subsection (2), we won\u2019t be voting for this. It\u2019s the same as the previous regime and provides certainty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to the tabled amendment to clause 7, inserting a new section 86Y, we will not be voting for this. It\u2019s unnecessary and can be covered by the \u201Cmanifestly unjust exception\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to the tabled amendment to clause 14, replacing paragraph (b) and inserting a new paragraph (c) of subclause (4), we will also be voting this one down, because we believe it is unnecessary. This is adding items to the list that are already covered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to the tabled amendment to subclause (6) of clause 16, we will be voting this down. The court already has discretion in deciding about the qualifying sentences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EFinally, in relation to the tabled amendment to Schedule 2, we\u2019ll be voting that down. These are both serious violent offences with high maximum penalties. Section 234 of the Crimes Act, for robbery, for example, gives you 10 years. All of the qualifying offences have at least a seven-year minimum sentence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022778970affeae46ce9f0b4bde66864ee4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022778970affeae46ce9f0b4bde66864ee4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll take a call from Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan, given that the Minister\u2019s just given responses to the amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00220b6fc75193ec44f9b9999e448da87e7b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b6fc75193ec44f9b9999e448da87e7b\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. I just thought, given that very last comment, Madam Chair, it\u2019s pretty important that we clarify. I did find it surprising that the Minister pre-empted all of the decisions on those, and I just want to make sure that you\u2019re not suggesting that it\u2019s not open to a member whose amendment has been dismissed in a sentence by the Minister to debate the amendment that they have taken the time to put on the Table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022137c162a4eef4b07bed8fd15ceb43bcf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022137c162a4eef4b07bed8fd15ceb43bcf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not ruling out any debate, Dr Webb. The member now knows the Minister\u2019s reason for saying that she\u2019s not going to support this amendment. I\u2019m not ruling out any debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233f7ac0d78fb4dd380d75225eaad96d2\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that clarification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7cd1a12c17745adaffef51a5023bdc2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7cd1a12c17745adaffef51a5023bdc2\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you so much, Madam Chair. Phew! What a breath of relief to know that Associate Minister of Justice McKee has done her one hour of reading, as well as other members in this Chamber! I am most impressed\u2014particularly when it comes to Simon Count\u2014I mean, Simon Court\u2014who has so clearly articulated\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a13fefb1ec0f4256bb4077285ab4cef6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: You two need to learn each other\u2019s names.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fe37aec44294ac8a3941f3d23ac685d\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014my amendment to clause 6, new section 82A(1) around \u201Cmust\u201D and \u201Cmay\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, first of all, I would like to respond to the Minister who responded to my amendment around \u201Cmust and \u201Cmay\u201D. The reason I put this together is merely for the fact that in other justice-based bills that we have been debating in this House, and in this particular case\u2014when we are looking at a particular verb being used in the positive\u2014the verb \u201Cmust\u201D has been used in the positive. But in the negative\u2014at least in the bills that I was looking at\u2014consistently \u201Cmay not\u201D is used to imply \u201Cmust not\u201D. I do rarely see the term \u201Cmust not\u201D being used in a particular bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ETo the other members in this House, this is more of a case of consistency of semantics, where \u201Cmust\u201D and \u201Cmay not\u201D are essentially equating to the same level of strength, but one in the positive and one in the negation. I would like to clarify that first. After all, my background, and particularly my doctorate, is in arts and humanities\u2014and particularly cognitive linguistics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI would like to address something else that the Minister has mentioned. The Minister has clearly stated where her position is. However, the Minister has not mentioned the reason and the rationale behind some of these\u2014particularly when we are reading it in conjunction with the regulatory impact statement\u2014and also what was originally proposed as part of the bill, or even what was presented by her very own officials. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons I mentioned the removal of what is considered \u201Ca stern sentencing response\u201D\u2014and we were looking at the \u201Cmanifestly unjust exception\u201D\u2014is particularly to do with some of the court cases I have mentioned before. Let\u2019s say, in the context of R v Campbell and in the context of Fitzgerald v R [2021], ruled by the Supreme Court, how is the Minister intending on reconciling some of the issues of illegality, particularly against the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, when it comes to someone who is not able to serve the full sentence? That was a key ruling of that particular case in Fitzgerald v R. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EIf the Minister isn\u2019t going to be allowing a certain part\u2014when we\u2019re looking at clause\u00A05 and also in terms of my tabled amendment to delete clause 5\u2014I would like to hear from the Minister how she\u2019s able to work around the violation of section 9 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022804eaf7a36d2406a8582f9c95f4a5615\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Could I please ask Dr Xu-Nan to just explain those cases that he mentioned, for the benefit of some of us that actually are not aware of the specific questions around those, please. Just briefly, if you would. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d51b19646bc7487a9e8f06518f031c82\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: Sure. I\u2019m happy to talk about that. In the particular case of Fitzgerald v R\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251350a4e5c764181b1e413969a67ad73\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Google it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226897d62883c04e938e9d4c401531b95b\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: I mean, I am googling it, in fact. Do you know why? Surely, for the Minister\u2014who\u2019s a Minister of the Crown\u2014she would undoubtedly have all of these cases in her head. I shouldn\u2019t have to explain it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245d77013c3e74195bb013a8d674eec5f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: She may have, but I can\u2019t judge if she\u2019s answered the question if I don\u2019t know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ced3a3944ac24794b1df2f50f21e6922\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but I am happy to enlighten it. In this particular case, the summary is that the majority of the Supreme Court in Fitzgerald v R found that the three-strike regime\u2014the previous version\u2014is subject to section 9 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. In this particular context, what has happened is that the fundamental right cannot be limited.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EFor the case of Fitzgerald, it was found, particularly due to the mental capacity of Mr Fitzgerald, that after the third strike it was deemed to be unworkable in terms of the fact\u00A0that he was not in charge of his full mental function to be able to realise the kind of law that he\u2019s breaking but was still being charged to the full amount. In those kinds of cases\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d500025e057944f3980cee467bca409a\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222937bb14b0d34eb385f42ed4e41b2bab\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2014I\u2019m just letting him finish his explanation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcda270d96db4ccb8d3553b4ddb642da\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair. In those kinds of cases, the court is able to have the leeway of using \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D\u2014unless the Minister thinks that that is also the incorrect use of it, in which case I would like the Minister\u2019s enlightenment on what is the correct use for someone who is mentally unaware or is unable to understand what they\u2019re committing and whether the fact that they received the third strike of maximum sentence is in line with that particular element. Of course, in those cases, the court found that they could have gone to a lower court and\u2014particularly when you\u2019re looking in the Crimes Act\u2014use section 135 as an alternative. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe court will be using alternative ways to address this, like they have done previously. I would like to know then, from the Minister\u2014in the context of some of the existing rulings\u2014how is she going to reconcile that with the stringency in this bill, this particular legislation that, despite the fact that she says it\u2019s different from the previous, is the same as previous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, my other question\u2014Madam Chair, if I may\u2014is around new section 86J(1)(a) and (b), in clause 7. The original intention of the bill has a starting point of 24 months, but it was dropped to 12 months post select committee. One of the biggest concerns raised by submitters on this particular area is the fact that 12 months, or even 24 months, is going to be too short and too low a threshold. I would like to know from the Minister what the rationale was for dropping it down from 24 months to 12 months, and thus creating a much harsher punishment and creating more ways for people to enter into that first strike. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u00222c0ed2f7f8d64b8bb5e8f6e6b6680478\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c0ed2f7f8d64b8bb5e8f6e6b6680478\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m just going to address some of the questions that the member the Hon Ginny Andersen from Labour asked me earlier regarding new section 86KA, in clause 7, reactivating prior strikes. She was asking me how it was going to work. I will point out that the member incorrectly said that all strikes will be reactivated; that is incorrect. They will not automatically be reactivated. Only those previous strikes that meet the new threshold will be reactivated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe member was asking what happens, because there are sometimes two first strikes that are given. For those at home who are watching who do not know the complexities of this bill, in order to get a first strike, a person needs to commit an offence from one of those 42 serious violent offences which are imprisonable by over seven years\u2019 imprisonment. When the person commits an offence and is sentenced to over 12 months\u2019 imprisonment, they are eligible for a first strike.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn order to be eligible for a second or a third strike, they must still commit an offence in one of those 42 offences but their term of imprisonment must be for 24 months or over. Now, if they get a term of imprisonment that is between 12 and 24 months, instead of getting a second strike, because it does not meet the threshold, they will actually receive another first strike. It\u2019s another warning to that individual, which is better than what we did in the last regime. It means that the person is still committing a serious violent or sexual offence whereby the judge has decided it is not serious enough to be over two years\u2019 jail but it\u2019s still serious enough to fit within this regime. The individual will be given an oral indication that they have received another first strike.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe member asked, \u201CWell, what if a person has three strikes? What happens to them then?\u201D Now, if the person who has three strikes under the old regime then goes on and commits a serious offence and is imprisoned for what would be more than 24 months, or two years, their previous strikes, if they fit within this regime, will be reactivated. If a person has received strikes where they have done three terms of imprisonment over 24 months, there is no passing go; it\u2019s straight to jail, and it\u2019s at the maximum penalty, third strike, no parole. We make no apologies for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ESpeaking to the member from the Greens and his question about section 9 in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, the Crown Law Office had advised the Attorney-General that the bill as introduced did not appear to be inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. The Attorney-General approved this advice. Two key reasons why the bill did not appear to be inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act are that an exception will apply to all mandatory sentencing elements of the regime to avoid manifestly unjust outcomes, and a qualifying sentence threshold will ensure that less serious offending is not subject to the regime. The bill does not vary penalties or retroactively punish anyone who offended before the regime came into effect. While warnings will be carried over, the regime is triggered by new offending, and only warnings which meet the qualifying sentence will be reactivated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00221d8b17f0f506434da8ad0bfd6902e2b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d8b17f0f506434da8ad0bfd6902e2b3\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Firstly, just in response to Associate Minister of Justice McKee\u2019s comments, that the Attorney-General\u2019s report was made before the Minister changed and made the bill\u2019s provision retrospective, so it\u2019s a little unhelpful, to put it kindly, to put an outdated report in front of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe Minister criticised me before in respect of her statements on Radio New Zealand when I said it was a flood of emails. They weren\u2019t her exact words, but that was the inference. That\u2019s what I said. Here are her exact words: \u201CWe\u2019ve heard from many people, especially through emails to my office, which have stated that the new regime has not gone far enough.\u201D She said \u201Cmany emails\u201D; three\u2019s not many. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWhat I actually want to talk about is the \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D provision. You\u2019re not allowed to say \u201Cless shit\u201D provisions of this bill, but that\u2019s basically what it is, I imagine. The \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D provision is one of the ameliorations of this bill, which makes it not quite as bad as the last one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow, in terms of what \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D is, I think it needs clarification, because, I mean, it\u2019s a strange thing in the law when you can have something that\u2019s a little bit unjust, that\u2019s permitted, or even quite a bit unjust, but it\u2019s permitted, but it has to be manifestly unjust and then the judge can intervene. I was concerned to see the Minister of Justice talk about this bill, and I think it was in the House when he said that she\u2014referring to the Minister\u2014has talked about the, I think, distorting effect of the Act, and it leads to disproportionate sentences. Well, hold the phone, people. That\u2019s the exact point of this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWhen we talk about the sentencing impact, we\u2019ve got one Minister saying disproportionate sentences are exactly what we\u2019re after. Disproportionate sentences are sentences which don\u2019t match the crime. Now, if the Government is saying sentences, as they stand, don\u2019t match the crime and we want to adjust them, that\u2019s one thing. If they\u2019re saying sentences do match the crime and we want them to not match the crime, that\u2019s something quite different. The Minister of Justice saying that it leads to disproportionate sentences\u2014hold the phone, people\u2014that\u2019s the exact point. It suggests that the Government is intent on imposing disproportionate sentences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIf we\u2019re looking at what \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D is, I would like the Minister to look at this. We\u2019re going to go through all of these amendments, so the Minister might want to preface the debate, but we are going to go through them. One of mine there was lodged at 12.15 today, the tabled amendment to clause 4(2). It suggests that we actually clarify that \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D means unjust or disproportionate to a significant degree, taking into account all of the\u00A0factors of the offending\u2014and I think this is important\u2014including the impact on and the views of the victim.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t think that\u2019s usefully expressed in the Sentencing Act at the moment; it\u2019s not strong enough\u2014but, also, the age of the offender, the behaviour of the offender, after the charges had been laid, including the conduct of the defence. I think that\u2019s an important factor as well. We talk about early guilty pleas, but the conduct of the defence is much more than just an early guilty plea\u2014so, taking pre-trial applications which are vexatious or looking for further evidence on grounds which are, essentially, oppressive and re-victimising the victim.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThey\u2019re all things that can happen within a criminal trial, and that\u2019s just a tiny sample. I\u2019m not a criminal lawyer; I don\u2019t know the full details of it, but understanding how the defendant behaves actually is reflective of whether they recognise the gravity of their offending, and also tacked on there, on that amendment, and other recognised matters of aggravation and mitigation. What it does is it says you\u2019ve got this concept which goes throughout the whole of this bill, \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D, and it really fleshes it out. I think that\u2019d be really useful just to make the bill a little more thoughtful and, basically, workable. I\u2019d be interested in the Minister\u2019s views on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u002221f0543ff2c34a9abff5410b4b7f7bd3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221f0543ff2c34a9abff5410b4b7f7bd3\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ve already spoken to the member Duncan Webb about his tabled amendment to clause 4(2) and explained that we were not going to be supporting that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn regard to the \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D, on this side of the House, we believe that it\u2019s right that these offenders face serious consequences for their offending, even if it feels like or seems to be disproportionate, because what we have done within this legislation is create the \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D for the courts to be able to determine. Hence, this is why we have put in a threshold in the first place, because there was not one there earlier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIt\u2019ll be up to the courts to decide how they are going to apply that exception of \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D in individual cases, but we\u2019re providing principles to them to help guide the courts in applying the exception. Part of that guidance reflects section 9 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, which protects against disproportionately severe treatment or punishment. Courts have found that \u201Cdisproportionately severe\u201D covers treatment that is grossly disproportionate to the circumstances, but it does not cover treatment that is simply disproportionate, and the wording in the bill aligns with that position. I think that clearly explains that position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWhen talking earlier about carrying over previous strikes, making the bill retrospective, I need to make it quite clear for those members on the Justice Committee who didn\u2019t understand as they were going through the bill, the new regime will still only apply to offending committed after the bill comes into force. The bill does not create retrospective offences or retrospective penalties, as the member had been saying. Existing sentencing legislation already requires the court to consider an offender\u2019s previous convictions, and this is similar to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe changes also don\u2019t apply to offences committed in between the repeal of the previous regime and the new regime coming into force. So it\u2019s very, very clear, and I would have hoped the member would have realised that as he went through the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022 data-id=\u0022b75d4d42e7274929b4c35c543ef8600f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b75d4d42e7274929b4c35c543ef8600f\u0022\u003EBENJAMIN DOYLE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te T\u016Bru. E tika ana te k\u014Drero i \u014D t\u0101tou t\u016Bpuna M\u0101ori \u201CWhakarongo ki te kupu pono, ki te kupu tika. Poipoia te k\u0101kano kia p\u016B\u0101wai\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Chair. The words of our M\u0101ori ancestors is true, \u201CTake heed of the true word, the right word. Nurture the seed so that it flourishes\u201D.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003E\u201CNurture the seed and it shall flourish\u201D. This is a whakatauk\u012B that I think of when I\u2019m reading new section 86J, inserted by clause 7 of this bill, which speaks to stage-1 offences and the qualifying age of offenders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003EOur Governments, successively, have released numerous reports and briefings which outline that a \u201Cyoung person\u201D is aged between 18 and 25 years. If we are to regard this as correct, as is done so in the Ministry of Health briefing \u201COverview of youth health\u201D, from August 2024, which defines young people and youth as between the ages of 12 and 24, then we must, too, recognise that this proposed bill also includes young people as offenders of stage-1 offences. I would like to seek clarity on what regard has been given to medically peer-reviewed articles and psychological scientific evidence which tells us that young people\u2019s cognitive development continues through until a person\u2019s mid-20s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003EA person who is aged 18 years of age, I would like to know, may not have been considered when drafting this bill, as I cannot understand how we would disproportionately allow young people to be treated in the same way as a fully cognitively developed and maturated adult. I wonder, and would like to seek clarity from the Associate Minister of Justice Nicole McKee, about any alternative pathways that seem perhaps more balanced in regard to young people and youth who have not fully developed their prefrontal cortex in such a way that they would be also sentenced as a stage-1 offender as an adult.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003EMy question is: how has the neurological stage of development of people under the age of 25 been considered, and is there value in pursuing evidence-based community supported rehabilitation interventions for young people under 25 as an alternative to the heavy-handed criminalising under this proposed bill? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022c62b14ed1f054cd3a75a26e65c4aab7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c62b14ed1f054cd3a75a26e65c4aab7e\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, thank you. Thank you to the member Benjamin Doyle. This is the first question I\u2019ve received from him in the House, although what I will\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022184daf232ec646c3bbfaaadaceec4aae\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Chairperson. Sorry to the Minister, but I do want to take a point of order. A photograph was just taken in the Chamber. A photograph was taken in the Chamber by a member. I\u2019m aware that that\u2019s inappropriate, and I wonder if you, as Chair, might direct that person to delete that photograph. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1d50b56cd4f41e88964d96e9192754e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Did a member just take a photo of the member when they were speaking? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6eb750051314bf5b07d87d88282c3b3\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: I took the photo. I will delete the photo, because I\u2019m conscious that members on the other side of the House do not take photos. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022777e216f396d4ad1a6de9cbeeaa4f912\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ll also withdraw and apologise for doing so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c0800ef9a0b4b2f8db73e6befcd8509\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: I was merely taking a photo of my colleagues, sir, and I will withdraw and apologise if my colleagues are offended by that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227719ba9d4a79463085fa4423d1b72008\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, then, you weren\u2019t taking photos across the Chamber?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229790dc23b95d4d46856e110219136790\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: I was taking a photo of Mr Bates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a5943300c244974925c27ad99e777d2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: All right\u2014OK. Well just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273fd6fc7b3614363af1cab97e1d65045\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: The photo was of Ben. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022537496a6d8a249849d58020564c5d160\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re at a heightened state of sensitivity here all around, so can we just all be aware of that during this debate. Thank you. The Minister may carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6cf6fff7be041b3adcb3b30bc6d6da8\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll start again, and I thank the member for the first question that I have received from him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWe are looking at the rule of law here. Those that are aged 18 and over are responsible to the laws of this land and therefore are eligible to the consequences should they break the laws\u00A0of this land. Those that are aged under the age of 18 are not eligible for the three-strikes regime. What I think is probably most important is that when we look at how three strikes actually works, the first strike is a warning that they are now on the pathway of the three-strikes regime. The second strike will mean that they have committed an offence which is eligible for imprisonment of over seven years, and when they do get that second strike, they will not be eligible for parole at that stage. When they commit the third strike, it\u2019s a maximum penalty with no parole.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EOne would expect that at the age of 18, if a person commits an offence where they are then convicted under the three-strikes regime, they will possibly not be under the age of 25 by the time that they get to their third strike, because they would have had to have served their sentence with no parole. Of course, there are always opportunities for rehabilitation while they are incarcerated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002216083d5cad364f5fbdf950d3a44d43b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216083d5cad364f5fbdf950d3a44d43b4\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I\u2019d just like to thank the Associate Minister of Justice Nicole McKee for her answers before. There was one answer that I\u2019d just like a bit more information on. The way I understood it in terms of how the regime will work\u2014she stated that only those strikes that meet the new threshold are the ones that are going to be revisited or up for another one. When they\u2019re revitalising the ones that are gone, there will have to be a process somehow of ascertaining those first strikes that meet the new threshold under this legislation that then qualify for being reconsidered for a second or a third strike.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EMy question to the Minister is: who holds that information, what database holds that information, who is doing the exercise to establish which offences fall into that area that meet the new threshold, and is there any ability or possibility that there could be a mistake made, as there have been in the past in the implementation of this legislation? Is there any ability for someone who had an offence that was strikable under the previous regime, and potentially in or out of this one\u2014who is doing that work to analyse? Is that a computer? Is that a human? Is that a database? Who checks it? How does that information find its way to the courtroom?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI really appreciate the fact that we\u2019ve been given information about how the first strike and then the second first strike and then the oral notification of the second first strike, how that works\u2014might need a good comms campaign to get that one out of the gate, but I get it. I think the thing that we want to understand is: where is the central point where that data is held, and is that held by Police? Is that held by Justice? Is that held in courts? Is that paper-based; is that computer-based? Who holds that information in order to make sure when an offender is before the courts, there is correct information in order for that strike to be made in a way that is correct in terms of what their previous history was? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThere is a real history here in New Zealand of there being multiple different databases, multiple different systems, Crown prosecutors operating in a different way from what the courtroom might be aware of, and room for confusion. I think, if we\u2019re introducing a new system, it is paramount, at this point of the bill, that we all have a crystal-clear understanding of where that dataset sits and who\u2019s responsible for checking that it\u2019s right, and who is held accountable if there are mistakes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI would also like to know from the Minister\u2014the regulatory impact statement (RIS) that accompanies this and goes to some of the key parts of Part 1 makes some really good sort of points in relation to research underpinning it. I just wondered if the Minister had read the regulatory impact statement and whether she\u2019d like to comment on some of the research that has shown that perceived early certainty of apprehension was most consistent when deterring white-collar offences such as fraud with tax violations\u2014other than violence, not violent offending. The research, which was \u201CThe Empirical Status of Deterrence Theory\u201D\u2014it\u2019s in the RIS\u2014shows that it doesn\u2019t really work for violent offending, but it\u2019s real good for white-collar offences such as fraud and tax violations. I just wonder whether she was wanting to catch more tax evaders with this legislation, or was she after violent criminals, because it seems to work for the first lot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EAlso, it\u2019s interesting to note that when the analysis is done against the criteria, the Ministry of Justice actually quite strongly recommends the status quo, rather than the new three-strikes regime. Primarily, the number one reason is that there\u2019s a lack of evidence that the proposal will be effective at addressing repeated serious violent offending or sustainably improving public confidence in the justice system. This is the Ministry of Justice advising the Minister that there is a lack of evidence that her proposal would effectively address repeated serious violent offending. I\u2019m interested to know from the Minister where she\u2019s getting her reckons from, if her own officials and research demonstrate that this doesn\u2019t work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022899c2e17e89446ea847bc40d68411402\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022899c2e17e89446ea847bc40d68411402\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. In answer to the question about who is holding the information, the courts hold the judiciary\u2019s information on the courts system. The Ministry of Justice will be working with the operational staff on how they go about implementing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe member will know that this is an operational matter, but part of that is extending the implementation date from three months to six months in order to allow for that to occur. I think that really does answer the question about where it is. In regard to mistakes, there were mistakes in the old regime, but they got fixed pretty quickly\u2014found and fixed fairly quickly. The Ministry of Justice are confident: not only are there no mistakes in the system; they don\u2019t expect there to be any mistakes in the system going forward\u2014not with the six-month implementation that they have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn regard to bringing in other forms of three strikes, actually this is sending a very clear message to our communities that we back them, that we support them, that we don\u2019t like them being intimidated and being attacked by sexual and violent offenders time and time again. I\u2019ll reiterate the point that I had made earlier: those serving a third strike had, on average between them, over 70 offences per person. Now, getting them out of our community, and getting them into a system where they can get rehabilitation and education under the corrections system, actually allows our communities to get on with their life in the law-abiding way in which they should be able to live. It\u2019s as simple as that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWe will take note of the fact that New Zealand has said, when they went to the polls, that they wanted a system that was going to respect them; that they wanted law and order from crime and from criminals; and that they wanted to feel safe in their beds at night, without Opposition parties giving millions of dollars to gangs so that they can continue to conduct their illegitimate business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u00221a967250b4a741f1b00dc5314a99213c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a967250b4a741f1b00dc5314a99213c\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and I appreciate the call. We\u2019ve all been trying to engage in the debate quite constructively, and I want to thank the Associate Minister of Justice Nicole McKee for answering the questions in quite a significant amount of detail and without a lot of politics, actually. It\u2019s been quite good, I think, tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI just want to speak to one small point that Dr Webb raised. He claimed that the Minister made changes to the bill at the Justice Committee. Of course, the select committee made the changes to the bill that came through the House. The Minister didn\u2019t vote on the changes. Actually, the only person who voted on the changes at select committee was Dr Webb and the Labour Party and the Greens and Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori and ACT, New Zealand First, and National\u2014because the proposed amendments were passed unanimously. I would assume that suggests that Dr Webb was happy with the content of the bill coming back to the House, and possibly didn\u2019t want to have any further amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI just wanted to touch on those amendments before. It was very helpful that the Minister addressed Dr Xu-Nan\u2019s amendments. I\u2019d like to reiterate that we won\u2019t be supporting those amendments either. I\u2019ve talked to my colleagues on this side of the Chamber and we won\u2019t be supporting the member\u2019s amendments, too, sadly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThat brings me to\u2014Dr Webb mentioned a couple of his amendments, and I wanted to draw the committee\u2019s attention to the stapled compendium of amendments in Dr Webb\u2019s name. There are 21 out of 24 that relate to Part 1 of the bill. I just wanted the Minister\u2019s view, likewise with Dr Xu-Nan\u2019s, as to whether or not she intends to support any of those amendments. I think it\u2019s been helpful to outline that the Minister wasn\u2019t going to support Dr Xu-Nan\u2019s amendments, because it means we can move on and we can actually debate the substantive parts of the bill that were unanimously supported by the committee.  Similarly, with Dr Webb\u2019s tabled amendments\u2014the first one is to clause 4(2) and they end at the amendment to clause 7, to insert new section 86Z.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI just wanted the Minister\u2019s view on whether or not she intends to support any of those amendments, so hopefully we can get to the meat of the bill, which is in the later clauses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u00223256eeaf25ae4f19ae2a096cb2c17798\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223256eeaf25ae4f19ae2a096cb2c17798\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Thank you for that question. I think it might be easier for me to go through those amendments tabled by the Hon Duncan Webb one by one, as I had done previously for the Green member. I have already mentioned that I do not support his first amendment, the tabled amendment to clause 4(2). My response to that is that the existing bill strikes a balance and it provides guidance but does not overly prescribe what \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D means. Courts will already consider these factors, but they may want to consider others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to his tabled amendment to new subsection (2) of clause 5, I will not be supporting this either. The proposed amendment would detract from the intention, which is to denounce serious offending even where the \u201Cmanifestly unjust exception\u201D applies, and that is based on case law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to his tabled amendment to clause 6, inserting new subsection (3) into new section 82A, I will not be supporting this. Judges need to know about an offender\u2019s criminal history in order to sentence them appropriately. It could lead to unnecessary court delays.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to his tabled amendment to clause 7, new section 86J, I will not be supporting this either. We think the lower threshold of more than 12 months\u2019 imprisonment strikes the right balance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to his tabled amendment to clause 7, to replace new section 86KA, I will not be supporting this amendment. Additional first warnings are necessary to reinforce to an offender the consequences of repeat offending and avoid a gap arising where they lose their first warning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to his tabled amendment to remove the words \u201Cif the offender is before the court at that time\u201D in clause 7, new section 86M, I will not be supporting this paper. This is about warnings, not sentences. The bill requires that an offender can only be given a warning when they are before the court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to his tabled amendment to clause 7 to insert paragraph (c) into new section 86M(2), I shall not be supporting that paper. Offenders should not avoid getting a warning just because of an omission by the court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to his tabled amendment to clause 7 to insert paragraph (d) into new section 86M(2), I will not be supporting that paper. This is not unique to three strikes. I believe it\u2019s out of scope and unnecessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to his tabled amendment to clause 7 to insert paragraph (c) into new section 86M(3B), I will not be supporting this. It\u2019s not unique to three strikes, and I, again, think that this is out of scope and unnecessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to his tabled amendment to clause 7 to insert subsection (3C) into new section 86M, I will not be supporting that paper. This section is about when a court imposes a \u201Cqualifying sentence\u201D on appeal, so the offender will need to get a warning. It\u2019s not about the oversight by the court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to his tabled amendment to clause 7 to insert subsection (6) into new section 86M, I will not be supporting that paper. The bill allows the court to use a form of words it considers appropriate. This allows the court to adapt the language as needed and it reduces appeals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to his tabled amendment to clause 7 to insert subsection (6A) into new section 86M, I shall not be supporting that paper. The warning is required to set out the possible consequences already.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to his tabled amendment to clause 7 to replace subsection (3) in new section 86N, I shall not be supporting that paper. The oral warning is the primary warning. The written notice is a written reminder of the consequences for the offender.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to his remaining tabled amendment to clause 7, new section 86N, I shall not be supporting that paper. The bill is consistent with case law on the previous regime. Written notice is already mandatory under new section 86N. The bill sufficiently provides for when the written notice must be given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to his tabled amendment to clause 7, to insert subsection (5) into new section\u00A086O, I will not be supporting this paper. Loss of parole at stage-2 is a key feature of the bill. \u201CManifestly unjust exception\u201D provides the ability to impose a lesser penalty when the test is met.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to his tabled amendment to clause 7, new section 86R, I will not be supporting this paper. The purpose of the regime is to provide consistent and certain consequences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to tabled amendment to clause 7, new section 86T, I will not be supporting that paper. It\u2019s unnecessary, in my view\u2014the court can already consider these matters when applying the \u201Cmanifestly unjust exception\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to his tabled amendment to clause 7, to insert paragraph (d) into new section\u00A086T(2), I will not be supporting that paper. The court can consider these matters already when applying the exception.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to his tabled amendment to clause 7, to insert new section 86UA, I will not be supporting that paper. It\u2019s unnecessary, in my view, as the court can take into account the time elapsed when considering \u201Cmanifestly unjust exception\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to his tabled amendment to clause 7, to insert new section 86Y, I will not be supporting that paper. The offender has to be present at sentencing already and has to be before the court to receive a warning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to his tabled amendment to clause 7, to insert new section 86Z, I will not be supporting this. I believe it\u2019s unnecessary. The Ministry of Justice is already doing a post-implementation assessment within four years of enactment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7149d8fbfea48038d22ac0321a1fae1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7149d8fbfea48038d22ac0321a1fae1\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Thank you also to the Associate Minister of Justice Nicole McKee for setting a challenge, as she seemed to suggest that, at first blush, she doesn\u2019t support any of my amendments. I\u2019m sure that, on reflection and after we go through them in detail, she will, but there is one thing I\u2019d say first. My friend the Hon Ginny Andersen mentioned the fact that, in fact, deterrence of this nature does work with \u201Cthinkers\u2019 offences\u201D like fraud, and that\u2019s one thing\u2014that\u2019s a really good argument.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe other thing is the fact that there are serious offences that the Minister didn\u2019t include, and I did consider putting an amendment in to kind of recognise that. For example, sex trafficking is not in, slavery is not in, treason, piracy\u2014the list goes on and on of those offences that aren\u2019t in. You\u2019ve got these offences which are a hell of a lot more serious than indecent assault, which is in and of itself serious, that aren\u2019t in there. I\u2019d be interested in the Minister\u2019s comments on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s a bad bill\u2014full stop\u2014so I didn\u2019t put that amendment in, but I did want to talk to one of my tabled amendments, which relates to clause 5. There\u2019s a strange clause in there, and it\u2019s kind of back-of-an-envelope drafting. I\u2019m always a bit cautious about criticising parliamentary counsel, but when the \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D exception is used, there\u2019s a direction to the sentencing judge to still sentence it in an appropriate manner, and the words used are kind of weird: they should \u201Cnevertheless regard the offence as worthy of a stern sentencing response.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s kind of old-fashioned language, right? What does it mean? Whilst \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D, which is used elsewhere\u2014you know, you could do better, but it is a principle for overturning sentence on appeal, whether it\u2019s manifestly unjust or not. What we\u2019ve got here is a totally new concept being introduced into sentencing law. A sentence that is \u201Cworthy of a stern\u201D\u2014it kind of is reminiscent of being told off sternly by an uncle or something, and it actually doesn\u2019t really have any meaning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIf what she means is that the judge should take into account that this is a strikable offence but, for whatever reason, it would be manifestly unjust to impose the strike sentence, but a sentence of a gravity which is appropriate to reflect the strike-full nature, even though it isn\u2019t at the strike tariff, should be imposed\u2014well, let\u2019s use words something like that, rather than this kind of very loose wording. I\u2019m really surprised\u2014I\u2019m assuming this was the Parliamentary Counsel Office\u2019s\u2014parliamentary counsel used the words \u201Cworthy of a stern sentencing response.\u201D It\u2019s actually just kind of pejorative but nothing else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s my amendment proposal for clause 5. The words that I propose are actually relatively simple, which is that rather than saying, \u201Cworthy of a stern sentencing response.\u201D, just say, \u201Capply the principles set out in this Act in respect of sentencing to ensure that a sentence of appropriate gravity is imposed.\u201D I think that that\u2019s what the Minister was intending when she put that in the bill. I\u2019m aware of the principles of this debate, and so I won\u2019t use my full time, but I\u2019ll just let the Minister respond to that, and then I will move on to my next tabled amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u002224de67de3f45426cb9f4b888a532a6a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224de67de3f45426cb9f4b888a532a6a1\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll just repeat for the member the Hon Dr Duncan Webb, because I\u2019ve already said it once and I\u2019m sure the member understands what case law is\u2014and, of course, it is based on case law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254af9cfb1c264d469325870ab7542363\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, he\u2019s a professor of law, so I\u2019m sure that he does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259568c2f43b14b4d9ce835eb3d789a85\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I have mentioned it. I had said it before, but I\u2019m still being asked the question from your colleague, so I think I need to repeat the answer to what I had previously, just recently said. The proposed amendment would detract from the intention, which is to denounce serious offending, even where the \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D exception applies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8d35cc1e6224588a724da3d5cbd56d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8d35cc1e6224588a724da3d5cbd56d7\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ll move to my next tabled amendment. I know that the Associate Minister of Justice Nicole McKee has said, \u201COh, I told you once that I don\u2019t like it, and I\u2019ll tell you again.\u201D\u2014and there is a certain, you know, strikable echo there\u2014and I won\u2019t take long on this one, because it\u2019s not a hard one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe provisions of the bill say that, if a judge is sentencing someone, they\u2019ve got to disregard the strike status of that person, because you\u2019ve got this threshold problem, right? So, you\u2019re on first strike, the judge is thinking about sentencing for a serious offence, and they\u2019re wavering. They\u2019re saying, \u201CShould it be 18 months or should it be two years or should it be 25 months?\u201D The bill says you\u2019ve got to disregard the strike status of the offender. Now, if you\u2019ve got the court records in front of you and you can see they\u2019re on the first strike and you know that, by the intention of this bill, to give them a second strike would impose a mandatory non-parole period, which is pretty much by definition disproportionate, it\u2019s impossible to take that out of your mind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIf you\u2019re going to do that, you really need to make sure that judges don\u2019t know the strike status of the offender, which is why I\u2019ve suggested a new subsection (3) be inserted in new section 82A, in clause 6\u2014which is the same section\u2014which provides that \u201CThe Judge considering sentencing must not be informed of the \u2018strike\u2019 status of an offender, and if they are aware of the \u2018strike\u2019 status of an offender they must recuse themselves.\u201D It\u2019s an absolute fiction to suggest that a judge\u2014they do a great job, but they are not superhumans. They can\u2019t go in and say, \u201CI am not going to know.\u201D\u2014and even if they say, \u201CI\u2019m not going to take account of it.\u201D, it\u2019s a little fictitious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIf the Minister actually wants a workable piece of legislation where judges genuinely don\u2019t take into account strike history, if you like, then the only way to do that is to have, essentially, a closed file when you\u2019re sentencing someone and to only open that when you come to determine whether there is a strike or not, which would be after the sentence is imposed\u2014because it\u2019s simply not possible. That\u2019s a simple question, and can I just comment that I\u2019m grateful for the Minister responding to each of my questions\u2014it\u2019s a really useful thing to do\u2014and although she has once said she didn\u2019t change her mind, I will never give up hope that she will change her mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022b955f8dbd29e4f29a5daa28431030984\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b955f8dbd29e4f29a5daa28431030984\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Tom Rutherford\u2014oh sorry, Minister; I didn\u2019t notice. It\u2019s getting late.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd2882112b3c46209ddfb61a810cd653\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd2882112b3c46209ddfb61a810cd653\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ll repeat to the member Duncan Webb what I said about his tabled amendment to clause 6, inserting new subsection (3) into new section 82A, that judges need to know about an offender\u2019s criminal history in order to sentence them appropriately. There are some similar requirements in legislation that require judges not to take into account certain factors when making a decision\u2014for example, section 82 of the Sentencing Act 2002 requires that pre-sentence detention must not be taken into account in determining the length of sentence. We think this is important to make sure that sentences that the courts impose reflect Parliament\u2019s intention and are not influenced by the consequences of the regime. If a judge were to take into account the consequences of the regime in determining the sentencing length, the Crown could appeal the sentence where it is appropriate. I think that we are fine where we have landed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002294c3063a7fb548a881e0001a82560bf2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294c3063a7fb548a881e0001a82560bf2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Laura McClure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf20b7e1a634461996c4184f2614fe04\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf20b7e1a634461996c4184f2614fe04\u0022\u003ELAURA McCLURE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I appreciate you\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022181ce8aba37b4de1b44b27ded729d217\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CYou may remember me.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250fe533264484f3891874fe55198178f\u0022\u003ELAURA McCLURE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014getting my name correct. Yes, you may remember me as Laura Trask. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve got a question for Associate Minister of Justice McKee in relation to some of the tabled amendments from the member Mariameno Kapa-Kingi\u2014in particular, the one to clause 6, inserting new section 82A(1A) requiring courts to give consideration to tikanga M\u0101ori-based restorative justice. I\u2019m just going to read it out to you. It says, \u201CIn clause 6, after new section 82A(1), insert (1A) \u201CIn determining the sentence for an offender under this regime, the court must give consideration to tikanga M\u0101ori-based restorative justice processes where applicable and agreeable by the offender.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EMy question would be: what about the victims? Should any restorative justice be victim-centred? I\u2019m asking the Minister what her thoughts are on this, and what her thoughts are on all the other amendments in Mariameno\u2019s name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022e21d256d95b44a3fa58b39e0084efed0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e21d256d95b44a3fa58b39e0084efed0\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and thank you to the member Laura McClure for her question. The victims of crime\u2014serious violent and sexual crime\u2014are at the forefront of our minds, of this Government, as we reintroduce law and order back into New Zealand and give our communities a safe space to be in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn regard to the tabled amendments by the member from the M\u0101ori Party, I\u2019ll go through them one by one, as they are in my hand. The first one mentioned by the member was the tabled amendment to clause 6, inserting new section 82A(1A) requiring courts to give consideration to tikanga M\u0101ori-based restorative justice, and, again, I will go through them by their timing. We will not be supporting this amendment. We believe it\u2019s out of scope and it\u2019s not specific to the three-strikes regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to her tabled amendment inserting new clause 4A, we will not be supporting this paper. It is out of scope and not specific to the three-strikes regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to the tabled amendment to clause 6, inserting new section 82A(1A) requiring courts to consider the potential for disproportionate impacts on M\u0101ori offenders, I will not be supporting this amendment. There is no intention to treat offenders differently solely on the basis of their ethnicity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to her tabled amendment to clause 7, inserting new section 86XY relating to Treaty Impact Statements, we will not be voting for this paper. It is out of scope. This bill deals with sentencing, not alternatives to sentencing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to the tabled amendment to replace clause 2, we will not be supporting this amendment. There\u2019s no need to delay the commencement for consideration of options that are not specific to three strikes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00226b4b6a5a109a4b07a38eb72aee8485e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b4b6a5a109a4b07a38eb72aee8485e6\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I would just like to address what the Minister was mentioning before, and I think it\u2019s one of the key things about the committee stage that, you know, we would love to talk about victims and victim protection, but it is outside the scope of this bill since it\u2019s not part of this bill. I feel like if we were debating the Corrections (Victim Protection) Amendment Bill, we would be talking more about victims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI would like to actually apologise and correct myself for what I said before about \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D, because I actually agree with the Hon Dr Duncan Webb saying that I have shaped or taken a definition of that. The Hon Dr Duncan Webb is absolutely correct in that there is actually no definition, and I made an assumption on that definition. I think that clarification would be very much appreciated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI would like to ask the Minister about something that the Minister said before in terms of Crown Law\u2019s advice\u2014and this is still with regard to new sections 86J(a) and (b)\u2014because I understand that Crown Law\u2019s advice in paragraph 18 is indeed saying that there were safety valves, but that was also before the threshold was increased. I want to check with the Minister whether the Minister has received additional advice from Crown Law or the Attorney-General since the new amendment has taken place post - select committee, because, as we know, any major amendment should have a subsequent New Zealand Bill of Rights Act (NZBORA) report being conducted, regardless of its consistency with NZBORA or a section 7 report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe other thing I would like to address\u2014that the Minister mentioned when the Minister was talking about Crown Law\u2019s advice\u2014is that Crown Law\u2019s advice in paragraph 47 was also very clear: basically, that there is no retrospectivity in this law. Again, it\u2019s a piece of advice that was given before changes were made during the select committee process. I\u2019m a little bit confused\u2014and I would like clarification from the Minister\u2014around retrospectivity, because the Minister said that \u201Cthere is no retrospectivity\u201D.  I would like to point to the new addition in \u201Crecord of first warning\u201D and \u201Crecord of subsequent warning\u201D, which has a new section that states, \u201C(including, without limitation, a relevant reactivated warning under clause\u00A019 of Schedule 1AA).\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EIf we go to new clause 19 of Schedule 1AA, inserted by clause 23, it does have a specific point around the fact that\u2014for example, in Schedule 1AA, under clause 16, under the definition of \u201Ccurrent\u201D, it says in paragraph (b) \u201Cwould not have ceased, or have been cancelled, under that section if it were in force\u2014(i) on and after\u201D, which for me implies that those old warnings were in fact reactivated. Wouldn\u2019t that then constitute a form of retrospectivity? Clarification would be very much appreciated from the Minister on what she meant by \u201Cthere is no retrospectivity\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EHowever, I would like to move on to a new part, and this is new section 86K(2)(a), inserted by clause 7, and this is to do with \u201CThe court must\u2014(a) warn the offender of the possible consequences if the offender receives a further qualifying sentence\u201D. Now, my assumption for this clause\u2014and please correct me if I\u2019m wrong, Minister\u2014is that this happens during the time of sentencing. However, if, for example, a person in some way is serving a stage-2 sentence\u2014anything that is longer than, let\u2019s say, 12 months or 24 months\u2014is there any provision or consideration that\u2019s been put in place on whether the offender upon completing their term of imprisonment will be re-warned of what warning they are on and the consequences, because it\u2019s all very well to warn someone at the beginning, but what happens years down the track? Are they going to be re-warned?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThose are my questions, which are around Crown Law advice\u2014whether there\u2019s any new advice on retrospectivity\u2014and new section 86K(2)(a).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022135e43b9ecc04f8a961786a69a7c28e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022135e43b9ecc04f8a961786a69a7c28e9\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. To the member: I missed the beginning of your question, so I hope that this answer helps. In regard to lowering the threshold and reactivating previous strikes, it looks like you asked about advice that we had received.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cd2c21cb601477fb074bd7bf0057436\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s whether you got any advice from Crown Law or the Attorney-General post amendments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8d2f029dc554a4d891924d6a8cf259d\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Any advice that may have been obtained from Crown Law would be privileged, and if we did receive advice, the fact that we did would also be privileged. In relation to the retrospectivity and the warnings, it\u2019s not a punishment that we are retrospectively bringing back into the regime. They are warnings. The punishment is the sentence delivered by the court. This regime is the warnings, and if they fit the new criteria of the new regime, they will be transferred over. It\u2019s not a punishment, and also there is no retrospectivity between the end of the last regime and the beginning of this new regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIf anyone has committed crimes between the end of the three-strikes regime, regardless of whether or not they had received a strike or had actually had a strike placed upon them in the new regime, then they are very lucky because there is no retrospectivity in that respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022d495a9e8d20045ad9b5e2116cb9c303b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d495a9e8d20045ad9b5e2116cb9c303b\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. We\u2019ve had a good discussion already, and the Minister has been clear that people need to feel safe in their beds and that that\u2019s important\u2014and we agree with that completely\u2014but, on the point of rehabilitation to stop people from reoffending and to stop them from creating more victims in New Zealand, I would be interested to know the Minister\u2019s views on how this new reinstated three-strikes regime impacts upon rehabilitation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe reason I ask that is that there has been some work done and some concerns were raised with the previous three-strikes regime that it was potentially negatively affecting offender rehabilitation or access to it, and in fact, during the Justice Committee process, we had some quite good submissions that raised concerns about the lack of parole eligibility, especially for\u00A0those who are on a third strike. It would be good to know whether she perceives that there is a disincentivising of offender rehabilitation, as rehabilitation programme access is generally prioritised only for those offenders who are eligible for parole. Would it mean that there is not access to that rehabilitation for some of those hardcore offenders who might benefit from that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EEvidence does indicate, in the regulatory impact statement quoted here by the department, that individuals in prison are more motivated to engage in rehabilitation programmes as their completion is often a prerequisite for parole. You\u2019ll get people to do it if they know they\u2019re getting parole. In the previous regime, we saw that there was no incentive for rehabilitation to be taken, and it\u2019s also noted, and I think it\u2019s worth pointing out, that research shows that New Zealand\u2019s managed release system results in lower rates of reoffending than limited supervision at the end of a sentence, and this is, in fact, supported by international evidence, which shows that offenders released without supervision are more likely to reoffend than those released under parole supervision. If there is some good evidence there, I\u2019m wanting to know whether the Minister has turned her mind to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe second point I would like to ask the Minister about\u2014the first one being on the impacts on the rehabilitation of offenders\u2014would be the impact on justice outcomes for M\u0101ori. We\u2019ve already had a bit of a discussion around this, but there is some great work done by the Law Commission specifically on three strikes. I just wanted to draw the Minister\u2019s attention to data from the previous three-strikes regime that provides quite a reliable indication of the likely impact of the planned reinstatement of this on M\u0101ori. As of, I believe, March 2022\u2014and the Minister might have more recent figures\u2014just prior to the repeal, approximately half of first-strike offenders were M\u0101ori. The 21 offenders who received a third strike\u2014in fact, 81 percent of those\u2014were M\u0101ori. Over 2018-19, and then 2019-20 combined, M\u0101ori were nine times more likely to receive a first strike than those of European or other ethnicity, and in fact 18 times more likely to receive a second strike.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThese figures do illustrate that M\u0101ori offenders and their wh\u0101nau were strongly impacted by the previous regime, and there is a strong view that what this legislation does is, in fact, compound existing inequalities within our justice system and entrench those further. I would be interested to hear from the Minister, given the research that M\u0101ori are 18 times more likely to receive a second strike, whether that potentially would impact upon any obligations under the Treaty of Waitangi if there is not access to rehabilitation, access to be able to provide connections and opportunities to turn your life around, particularly given the fact that M\u0101ori are disproportionately represented by quite a significant amount.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u002207e7bcc844f94b6e8d1f1df6c52d1021\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207e7bcc844f94b6e8d1f1df6c52d1021\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. To the member the Hon Ginny Andersen, who was looking at the rehabilitation side and the question on the loss of rehabilitation opportunities, the member will be pleased to hear that offenders will be able to access certain rehabilitation programmes when they are nearing their release date, even if they\u2019re not eligible for parole. They will also have ongoing access to other activities such as education programmes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn regard to consistency with the Treaty of Waitangi, I do recognise that some M\u0101ori will be subject to longer sentences because of this bill. However, the bill does not discriminate based on race. The bill is there for those that commit the crimes, and it\u2019s important to note that M\u0101ori are also more likely than non-M\u0101ori to be that victim of crime. On that basis, a policy that takes a tougher approach to sentencing, I would say, is of benefit to M\u0101ori. M\u0101ori are, of course, equally entitled to be free from crimes, yet M\u0101ori are more likely than non-M\u0101ori to be the victims of crime, and I recognise those victims and denounce those who offend against them. I intend for this bill to help protect M\u0101ori victims by incapacitating and deterring offenders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u002260b06e5112a04cdd8932accc6907984e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260b06e5112a04cdd8932accc6907984e\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. It has been fantastic for the Minister to be engaged as we talked through the 21 amendments from Dr Duncan Webb, the 25 amendments from Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan, and the four amendments from Mariameno Kapa-Kingi, and for her to outline her position that she wouldn\u2019t be supporting those amendments and to provide the context as to why that would be the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EI\u2019m keen to come to the substantive part of the legislation that we\u2019re actually here to debate, and particularly clause 7, inserting new sections 86J to 86X and cross-heading, because this is the really substantive part of the bill. I believe the Minister would like to speak to parts involved with that part, and then once we\u2019ve done that, I\u2019m ready to move to Part 2 and the other part involved with the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EI\u2019m keen to understand from the Minister around the interpretation aspect at new section 86J, inserted by clause 7, and then new section 86K, \u201CWarnings: first warnings to be given if qualifying sentence imposed for stage-1 offence\u201D. A short sharp call so the Minister can respond to that, and then I\u2019m ready to move to Part 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00220e4944d1122f46a9b430cdf5f913abc8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e4944d1122f46a9b430cdf5f913abc8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The time has come for me to leave the Chair. The committee will resume at 9 a.m. Have a good night, everyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 11.55 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Friday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241210cddd8045614f4becb0d9fa140a65e817001594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fab1760214794007864ae6d739587926\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 10 DECEMBER 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022318f65c6f38446549892bd1ab4a33d77\u0022\u003E(continued on Friday, 13 December 2024)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224b1dfc2c2d494975966a77fe9c5fb2ab\u0022\u003ESentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022526716de52054dcca808afde7b0fd31a\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022acff2ed0b8bb45ee9029224a6fa0880b\u0022\u003EPart 1  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000007\u0022\u003EAmendments to Sentencing Act 2002\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9bb6587116446b5a3dc64ce68baa7ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9bb6587116446b5a3dc64ce68baa7ae\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the committee is currently considering the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill, and the question we are debating on is Part 1: clauses 3 to 12, \u201CAmendments to Sentencing Act 2002\u201D; and Schedules 1 and 2. The question is that Part 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u00229329c382a8354139b3bd2ec12989c215\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229329c382a8354139b3bd2ec12989c215\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Last night when we finished up for the evening, I was asked a question by the member Tom Rutherford around the changes to new sections 86J to 86X, which is clause 7 in the amendment bill, and I\u2019d just like to take some time to answer his question around some of these changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn section 86J, the qualifying sentence threshold at stage-1 has been amended to 12 months, from 24 months. We also have put in there that if an offender has earned a first strike but wins an appeal and gets, say, home detention, then the record of that first strike will be removed because it\u2019s no longer imprisonment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EAt section 86M, we have said that if, on appeal, the court issues what becomes a qualifying sentence, then a strike warning can be issued if indeed it does qualify at appeal. We also, at section 86M, are noting that if an offender is not before the appeal court when the decision is made that would give them a strikable offence, then the offender must be referred back to the original court in order for that court to provide the offender a warning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EAt sections 86P, 86R, and 86S, we are removing the words \u201Cin writing\u201D. The reason why we are removing those words, \u201Cin writing\u201D, is because we believe that the oral indication to the offender that they are receiving a warning is the official warning that they receive, and that to have it in writing will be to confirm that the offender has received that oral, verbal warning by a judge directly, and gives them a record of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EAt section 86T, we are removing section 102 from matters that apply to section 86T, aligning with the wording used in the Sentencing Act 2002. It clarifies that section 86T does not prevent consideration of any mitigating factors. At section 86U, we are allowing the court to revoke a warning when a pardon is granted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWhile I\u2019m on my feet, I think it\u2019s an opportune time to speak to my own Amendment Paper and the reasonings for why I am bringing it to the committee. The Amendment Paper that I have submitted amends Schedule 1 of the bill, which reactivates previous warnings that meet the relevant thresholds under the new regime. The paper ensures that when a previous warning is not reactivated, a previous final warning could be reactivated as a first warning under the new regime. This will happen when the previous final warning meets the threshold of above 12 months\u2019 imprisonment, including sentences of above 24 months\u2019 imprisonment. As it was returned from the Justice Committee, the bill as currently drafted did not reactivate a previous warning in certain scenarios for a sentence of more than 24 months\u2019 imprisonment, so I believe that this Amendment Paper is necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ETo give an illustration: an offender may have been sentenced to 10 months\u2019 imprisonment for a previous warning, and, say, 27 months\u2019 imprisonment for a previous final warning. In this scenario, the offender\u2019s previous first warning will not be reactivated, because it didn\u2019t meet the threshold, because it\u2019s 10 months, not over 12. Only a final warning for a sentence of more than 12 months\u2019 imprisonment, but then up to 24 months, will be reactivated, but not for sentences above the 24 months, so that offender\u2019s final warning would not be reactivated. I hope that that explains my Amendment Paper that I\u2019ve put forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7300cc862c14dc5b3b0e87ba1448cf8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7300cc862c14dc5b3b0e87ba1448cf8\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and thank you for that explanation, Associate Minister of Justice McKee, albeit I am surprised, after what the Minister said yesterday about consistency, that we\u2019re seeing an Amendment Paper today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI want to kind of pick up on what the Minister was just saying before\u2014two things the Minister was saying before. I want to go back\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e49639ffa5d348e881ac1eff48cb254b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Just to clarify, this showed up last night.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ba4ab0325b848a89da934743b81f1e2\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Chair. I want to pick up on what the Minister mentioned before, and I\u2019m still also waiting for a response from the Minister regarding my earlier question: when a court issues a warning, warning the offender of the possible consequences, whether that particular warning of the consequences of getting a warning will be given to the offender later on\u2014after, for example, the offender has served their sentence\u2014because of the fact that, after you\u2019ve gone through the whole process, people might forget and potentially may need a reminder. That is a clarification, if the Minister wouldn\u2019t mind giving it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to what the Minister said before, and this is specifically in relation to new section 86M(2), inserted by clause 7\u2014I\u2019m at the \u201Cadministration\u201D element of this new section. Now, although it says, \u201Cif the court is the court that first sentenced the offender\u201D, and \u201Cif the court is not the court\u201D, they have to go back to a previous court, and this is what the Minister said before. I wanted to check with the Minister whether there\u2019s been any consideration of the potential court backlog around this, which is one of the concerns of some of the submitters, the additional administrative burden. If the Minister wouldn\u2019t mind just clarifying whether she foresees that there will be an administrative burden or, potentially, that she has a rough estimate of how many cases this would entail, it would be quite nice to have that reassurance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, the other thing that the Minister was talking about\u2014and the other question I have\u2014is around new section 86N, which is around the notice of possible consequences, etc. One of the things we brought up in the select committee, and we couldn\u2019t have a definite response from the officials, is around the fact that we do see a high level of dyslexia or neurodivergence within the wh\u0101nau population, particularly with those who offend\u2014on whether that has been a consideration given when a warning is issued, to check in terms of the comprehension. The Minister before mentioned quite a lot in terms of, \u201CWell, if you\u2019re this, then this doesn\u2019t count; if you\u2019re this, then this doesn\u2019t count.\u201D That is complex even by the standard of a legal expert, let alone someone who is offending or with dyslexia or neurodivergence. My final question is: whether the Minister has considered how to ensure that offenders fully comprehend and understand what they are doing and the warning and what that\u2019s going to entail. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThose are three questions: whether the consequences of the warning will be given to the offender later on; clarification around the number of instances that it will have to go back to a previous court under new section 86M(2)(a) and (b); and also whether dyslexia and neurodivergence have been factored in when a warning is issued.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac728186a20044e695da9ff422ee207f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac728186a20044e695da9ff422ee207f\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for your questions there, Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan, the member from the Greens. In answer to those: we\u2019re not really worried about the backlogs; we are working on backlogs within the justice system. Part of the reason of having a six-month implementation is to make sure that the system will be efficient when it goes through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn answer to your question about how the warnings are given, as I just mentioned when I was last on my feet, the warnings are given originally as an oral warning, face to face, followed up with a written warning. There are two avenues there for a person to receive  and understand not only the warning that is given to them, because it will be face to face, but also the written follow-up as well. There will be no excuse for continuing to offend by saying that they did not understand that they had a warning in place, when it will be delivered in two ways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022f95c8d3a19f744ceadf637d6c52ba411\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f95c8d3a19f744ceadf637d6c52ba411\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, and it\u2019s so good to be here and to give this the scrutiny that it deserves. I would just comment that last night Associate Minister of Justice McKee did stand up and say, \u201CWe will be voting\u201D, and went through a number of tabled amendments. I just thought it was a little disrespectful of the process of this House. She has one vote; she is a member of the executive. She doesn\u2019t speak for the House of Representatives in which we sit today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EAnyway, the other point I\u2019d make, in respect of my tabled amendment I\u2019m going to talk to now, is really reflective of the speech that the Minister just gave this morning\u2014the first speech she gave\u2014when she went through all the complexities of this piece of legislation. What she has managed to develop, through the original bill and her Amendment Paper 237, on the Table, and through the amendments she requested/demanded that the select committee take on board, is one of the most complex and unworkable pieces of legislation I\u2019ve seen, with differing strikes, having to go back and revive previous strikes but not all of them, and, even then, sometimes, in a different order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThen we\u2019ve got new section 86KA, in clause 7, which deals with the situation where someone has been given a first-strike warning and then commits another offence and is sentenced to a period of imprisonment which meets the first-strike test but not the second-strike test. Now, we have a most bizarre\u2014Kafka would be proud\u2014situation where you get a second first warning. I mean, that\u2019s a nonsense statement that you\u2019re on your first strike, you\u2019re sentenced, and you get another warning, but it\u2019s not a second warning; it\u2019s a first warning. I get what\u2019s trying to be addressed here. What\u2019s trying to be addressed is the risk that, in respect of the first offence, there is an appeal against conviction or sentence which reduces the first offence to below the strikable standard. You\u2019ve got a kind of belt and braces two first warnings so that, if one first warning falls away, you\u2019ve still got a second warning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s absolutely a nonsense to give someone a second first warning. That\u2019s why I proposed the amendment, essentially, replacing the section and calling it what it should be: \u201CNew first strike warning where original warning cancelled.\u201D You don\u2019t give two first-strike warnings, because that\u2019s an impossibility, and it\u2019s just tortuous language; what you do is you wait and see. If there is actually a change in the status of that first warning and it falls away, then there is no warning. You can give another warning which can properly be called a first-strike warning. One of the problems here is that to give two warnings is actually really confusing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIt troubles me that sometimes our policy makers and drafters pride themselves on these really complicated so-called solutions, but we don\u2019t put ourselves in the shoes of the people who are affected by it. Now, I know the Minister doesn\u2019t really have a great deal of time for offenders and isn\u2019t concerned, but I\u2019m actually concerned that we make it clear to them what\u2019s going on. If they have two warnings, they\u2019re going to think they\u2019re on their second strike, when they\u2019re not. Let\u2019s wait until the first warning is cancelled before we give them another first warning, and that\u2019s what my proposed section 86KA, \u201CNew first strike warning where original warning cancelled\u201D\u2014there\u2019s some simple language for you, Minister\u2014would do. I would like her to revisit her statement that she is voting this amendment down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022313e1772f8bd4fddb1c046e39cf5a675\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022313e1772f8bd4fddb1c046e39cf5a675\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I wonder whether or not the member the Hon Dr Duncan Webb is speaking to his amendment that was tabled this morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220ebd49635354edc82678caa04b5cfee\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Last night.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241bf7efc3f204c68aa3fcb1251a7a4b8\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: Last night\u2019s one. Sorry, just checking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022350cd821afaf4791b5faf15b202b878e\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: I will get there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220f0178736154598a4c23dd1d47634b9\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: OK. That\u2019s all right, because I\u2019ve already actually spoken to that, so I\u2019m not prepared to speak to it again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWhat I will say in relation to what the speaker had asked\u2014there is one point that I would really like to make, and that\u2019s in regard to the comments that were made about the policy makers and the drafters, of whom I have the utmost respect for the work that they do and the hours and time that they put in to make sure that we have right legislation that is fit for purpose and that looks after and addresses the community\u2019s concerns on public safety. In that respect, I think that our policy makers and our drafters actually deserve a round of applause and a thanks for the work that they do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u002259bf17f77962471b9480555764b00f14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259bf17f77962471b9480555764b00f14\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa e te Whare. Just in closing last night, I did recall the Minister standing and speaking to\u2014or reading, which is not quite the same as speaking and thinking one\u2019s thoughts through oneself. Just reading off a paper and landing with the same old \u201CI won\u2019t be dealing with this\u201D or \u201CI won\u2019t be voting for it\u201D is, I think, more than a disrespect; it is a neglect on the Minister\u2019s part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ETo that end, the Minister talked about rehabilitation. The assumption about rehabilitation is that there has been \u201Chabilitation\u201D in the first place, which, if you know what you\u2019re talking about on the subject, you will know that that is just not the case. It is a myth to suggest that rehabilitation can even occur when one doesn\u2019t truly understand and know the issues that exist in this context. That was just to help you out, given my own training in this space, on which it seems most have a gap of knowledge in this regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThe other thing that I do want to draw to the Minister\u2019s attention in my amendments, on which, of course, clearly, she regurgitated her boss\u2019s k\u014Drero\u2014which is, you know, \u201CM\u0101oris and Te Tiriti and all of that stuff has no place.\u201D I want to ask the Minister to explain whether she understands the concept of hohou te rongo. That\u2019s referred to when I talk about\u2014just to help her understand in English\u2014restorative justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThe concept of that is a very old and important concept in action that might be missing; there might be a gap of knowledge. I can assure you that what is now called restorative justice\u2014which you should know\u2014originates from family group conferencing, which originates from wh\u0101nau hui, which originates from the Children, Young Persons, and Their Families Act 1989. All of that work, that M\u0101ori intelligence and work, was provided\u2014to nail the point\u2014in what the mainstream calls restorative justice, but the essence of it comes from hohou te rongo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EI\u2019m curious that the Minister might know what that is, and I\u2019d be interested to see if she can explain that in the context of her rejecting outright amendments which\u2014I know that her party think that way because, sadly, it shows up in their majority of racist rhetoric. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022 data-id=\u0022715f945734c04010bcdedf38c6e7b569\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022715f945734c04010bcdedf38c6e7b569\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Chairperson. I think we can fairly take\u2014well, I personally think that\u2019s a fair place to take\u2014offence, when you hear someone say that final comment from the member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290816796e6134e21bf2261bfde53804f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Dr Duncan Webb, and I am just getting some advice on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022d737c721f7804ff8b23b0502f8492000\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d737c721f7804ff8b23b0502f8492000\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. This House has explored allegations of racism and the extent to which they can be made at some length in this House, and it\u2019s very clear that in terms of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c40d5ade47c84c7789d9836a799f2fb8\u0022\u003EHon Matt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: The member said he takes offence. Sit down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acf0aae3bb704dc0b860f487502ec54e\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s a convention that points of order are taken in silence. The\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b3316da9b224ee497290f4249c1f08b\u0022\u003EHon Matt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, the Standing Orders\u2014when he says \u201Ctake offence\u201D, you accept it, not debate it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c011100e55b4e308858d88aa13f1525\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Let\u2019s hear this point of order in silence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294c6bbb1de354b55b62bb8b51a7cfd20\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: The fact is that it\u2019s well established that criticisms of policies and positions and legislation may be called racist, whereas allegations of that nature directed against a person are out of order, and that\u2019s a well-established convention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0ed5703f8a040bd893398db15757bfe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0ed5703f8a040bd893398db15757bfe\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to just take some advice on this. My understanding is that Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s assessment is correct, but I am just getting some advice on that and I would like to continue, and then we will come back to this. I will ask members to focus their contributions on specific clauses. I\u2019ve been going through the notes from last night and there was a rich debate, from what I can see, and a number of points have been raised and a lot of analysis has been had. I do want you to be specific to clauses in terms of your responses to the Minister. I\u2019ll take the next call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u00220492242fcd7c40179fb725ab34a6fba2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220492242fcd7c40179fb725ab34a6fba2\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. To the member from the M\u0101ori Party, when I\u2019m reading, especially when it comes to Amendment Papers or tabled amendments which have no reference and are totally out of scope of this bill, I will ensure that I do read, because from this position it is important that we are accurate and have our wording correct. There is a need, when there are a number of Amendment Papers, to make sure that we address the paper itself and what it is that needs to be read out. The member understands that they are well out of scope and should probably look to the bill and how the bill is read in itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn regard to rehabilitation, as I had mentioned last night in one of my speeches, the rehabilitation is still available to prisoners, including education, so I\u2019m not quite sure what the member is on there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn regard to the debate that that member keeps bringing up, saying that the party or the Government is racist, I think what the member needs to do is have a look at the bill and realise that the bill is not based on race; the bill is based on bad behaviour. The bill is based on those that create the most serious violent and sexual crimes, not on race. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022eea37c23a5a741ed9a3a2b83904ae193\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eea37c23a5a741ed9a3a2b83904ae193\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Taihoa\u2014taihoa. I don\u2019t want people talking to each other across the Chamber. I do want that to stop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EJust to the point of order and the counter - points of order in terms of what can or cannot be said in terms of referring to something racist, you are able to infer things to the Government or to policies but not to an individual person. We were talking about rhetoric that can be something that could relate to the Government or to an individual, so it\u2019s incredibly contextual. If I could ask members to refrain from using that term in terms of the way that it might relate to the individual, that will help in the order of the committee. Also, I do want to hear specific interventions on clauses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4a12d23bf0a4eac92bc82b7dc20eb84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4a12d23bf0a4eac92bc82b7dc20eb84\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m just seeking also some clarification from you, Mr Chair. It might just be that I\u2019m still quite new, but I didn\u2019t think that the Associate Minister of Justice was able to consider, herself, whether Amendment Papers were in or out of scope. I would just like some clarification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EAlso, one of the things\u2014and the reason why we\u2019re coming back to rehabilitation and coming back to talking about this again\u2014is that we still haven\u2019t heard from the Minister yesterday. I think multiple members asked this and we didn\u2019t hear a response: how is the Minister going to address the fact that, under the old system, 81 percent of people who received a third strike were M\u0101ori, which is disproportionate to their population? What are we going to do about that? And, going to the specific point that the Hon Duncan Webb mentioned before, in terms of having two first warnings, we\u2019re still waiting to hear a response from the Minister regarding that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI want to point to a specific clause that that may affect, which is clause 7, which inserts\u00A0new section 86U(2). Now, in this particular section, it says, \u201Can offender ceases to have a record of first warning in relation to a stage-1 offence or a record of subsequent warning in relation to a stage-2 offence or a stage-3 offence\u201D, but, as we see from the new section 86KA, you can have a first warning in a stage-2 offence. If you can have a second first-warning during the stage-2 offence stage but this section only addresses subsequent warnings in stage-2 provisions but doesn\u2019t address first warnings in a stage-2 provision, what happens when a person has a first warning at a stage-2 level? Does that then mean new section 86U(2) no longer applies to them? And what happens to these people if it is no longer applicable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EOne other thing I want to touch on, in terms of what the Minister said before\u2014and I do appreciate the Minister responding to my earlier questions, particularly around ensuring that offenders do get an oral and a written warning\u2014is that that also makes an assumption about the comprehension of the oral and also the written warning. My question was very specific\u2014and I have been listening to the Minister very carefully: will they check to see whether the offender comprehended and understood fully what that warning means, rather than just delivering an oral warning and a written warning?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EAgain, just for clarity, my questions were around how the Minister is going to ensure that, this time round, we\u2019re not going to be seeing an overwhelming number of M\u0101ori who are going through the strikes system, like we were seeing earlier, which was disproportionate to the population; and around what happens in new section 86U(2) when a person has a second first-warning but it is applicable in the stage-2 stage but is not referenced in this particular provision as an example. My last question is checking on the comprehension of the warning and whether the warning will be understood. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00229de4f7e9f3f64764a1a8bced65ce16f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229de4f7e9f3f64764a1a8bced65ce16f5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Just in terms of the clarification that was sought, I will be determining what is or isn\u2019t in scope, but also noting that the Minister has, in her interventions and her contributions, addressed certain issues. I am listening carefully to see whether issues have been addressed or not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u002234df42ce04074583a530c96c1a94f801\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234df42ce04074583a530c96c1a94f801\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I wanted to address\u00A0the points made around the Associate Minister of Justice not supporting particular amendments, which we have covered off in a lot of detail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI remind Dr Webb that, last night,\u00A0we indicated that we also didn\u2019t support the amendments, and I\u2019ve checked with my colleagues in the ACT Party and New Zealand First, and they won\u2019t be supporting the amendments either\u2014just to give Dr Webb some assurance that this side of the Chamber won\u2019t be supporting the amendments the Minister has already well and truly covered off. Also, I\u2019ll give the Minister a chance to address Dr Webb\u2019s tabled amendment from this morning\u2014whether or not the Minister can indicate if she thinks that that amendment should be supported. I have reviewed it and I didn\u2019t think it was one that we\u00A0would support, and I want to get the Minister\u2019s view on that as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s good that Dr Webb spent some time doing some homework last night. I also did some homework. I spent a good couple of hours after the session last night just reviewing what we\u2019d gone through, because I was wanting to come to the Chamber this morning and make some substantive contributions on the clauses in the bill that haven\u2019t actually been covered off. We had Dr Xu-Nan yesterday covering off clause 3 around inconsistencies and his questions around permanent records, and Dr Webb also touched on the manifestly unjust provisions in clauses 5 and 6. Both Dr Webb and Dr Xu-Nan and members and also Ginny Andersen then spoke at length on clause 7, which is the operative clause around how the three-strikes system works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThen, of course, the Minister this morning gave a very fulsome answer to that. I wanted to thank the Minister for providing, I think, some quite detailed answers to questions. Some of the calls are quite long, and I found it hard to discern the questions from them. Over five minutes, it\u2019s hard to find where the questions have come from, so, hopefully, the shorter and sharper the calls, the more detail we can extract. Obviously, the Chair does a great job of picking out where the questions are, and that\u2019s why he\u2019s in the Chair and we sit over here on the benches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThe new material I wanted to raise, given that we have covered off all the trajectory, all the material in clause 7, is just heading now towards clauses 11 and 12. I just want to get the Minister\u2019s confirmation that my understanding is correct in that clause 11 amends Schedule 1AA, and that is to do with the reactivation of previous strikes, which Dr Webb covered off last night in quite an amount of detail, and clause 12, which inserts new Schedule 1AB, set out in Schedule 2. That, of course, lists the qualifying offences that will be provided in this scheme, which Dr Webb also covered off in quite an amount of detail last night.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EIf I can just get the Minister\u2019s confirmation that that\u2019s my understanding of how those two clauses operate and that the Minister is comfortable that she addressed the questions to those Schedules posed by Dr Webb last night. Then I\u2019m very much looking forward to continuing on into Part 2 very shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022eaabccd1cacd406f9de3ff5b9078dc69\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eaabccd1cacd406f9de3ff5b9078dc69\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. There\u2019s a bit there for me to unpack, so please bear with me. I\u2019m going to start with the Green member\u2019s contribution and see if I can clarify, again, in a way that is more helpful to the member. In regard to new section 86U(2), the questions that the member asked me are actually covered by new section 86U(2A). It covers the additional first warnings under new section 86KA. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn regard to re-warning people after they have left prison, the intention is not to do that, but I can assure the member that should a person be in prison and they commit another crime, they\u2019re likely to receive another warning and they\u2019ll be told about it again at that stage. In regard to the court impacts as well, which the member had mentioned, new section 86M(2) is the reference that I will give you. It will be infrequent that a person will have to go back to court, but there will be a few cases expected. It could be where the court omits to give the warning, and judicial education and the six-month preparation for the implementation of this law will help with that because that\u2019s where the training of court staff and the judiciary will be undertaken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThere, of course, will be the other exception where, say, a person appeals a decision to the Court of Appeal, it is usual\u2014not the only way that it occurs but often a judgment is reserved and delivered later. Therefore, the offender is not always in court at that time. This means that the offender will have to go back to the original court in order to receive the sentence or the warning or, as the case may be, have the warning removed. It will need to be done face to face and the person will need to be recalled, if the appeal is successful or not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe warnings will be communicated to the offender, and the court can use whatever words they wish to use to be able to help that individual understand what\u2019s happening. It\u2019s not like they\u2019ll be reading from a script. They\u2019ll actually be able to understand the scenario that that individual will be in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u0022b882b7ab9529459d84591fd9236bcb28\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b882b7ab9529459d84591fd9236bcb28\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and thank you, fellow members\u2014thank you, members from across the Chamber, for taking the opportunity to summarise and school us on what we should and should not be asking, or what we should or should not have comprehended from what the Minister has chosen to answer to date. Whilst the members from across the Chamber may think that the questions have been well traversed or well answered, they\u2019re as clear as mud in some cases, so they will continue to be asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe Minister has said that the whole purpose of this bill is to provide a consistent and certain consequence, which I think is a little bit ironic, given the state of affairs in this committee of the whole House stage, where we have pre-emptive explanation and explaining going on, where we have a Minister refusing, essentially, to engage in some debate and arbitrarily just ruling it out of scope if it doesn\u2019t suit her purposes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve still got some genuine questions because I don\u2019t understand the logistics of how some of this is going to work. When the Minister says, for instance, \u201Cthe strikees will have received and therefore understood a warning\u201D, there\u2019s a huge assumption\u2014and the word \u201Cunderstood\u201D is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. It\u2019s not OK for a Minister to sit in the chair and just say that the court staff, after a brief period of six months of preparation\u2014in which time, all of the IT, all of the training; there\u2019s an awful lot going on in a six-month period, to have logistical preparation for an efficient and effective system to be carried out. And during that period of time, they\u2019re able to use some words and, therefore, people will understand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EMy colleague from the Green Party asked some legitimate questions about individuals\u2019 capacity to have sufficient understanding to understand what is an incredibly complex warning system. Having sat through the select committee process and having the opportunity to ask experts, officials, direct robust questions about stepping us through the complexity of this, sometimes the answers provided made it less clear, rather than more clear. You can only imagine standing in a courtroom being told that you\u2019re getting a second first warning about something.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWhat I really want to know is, whilst an awful lot of work has gone in to amending and rewriting, and all of the focus has been from the impetus of the court or the Minister or the party in the legislation, what work has gone into ensuring that there actually is some understanding, or testing understanding? Do people leave the dock, leave the courtroom, and have to sign something to say that they understood? What happens when an oral warning is\u00A0given, and then it\u2019s assumedly backed up by a written confirmation: if one or the other doesn\u2019t happen, how does that impact on the one that does?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EI agree with my colleague the Hon Dr Duncan Webb that there\u2019s torturous language throughout this, and high anxiety in the context in which all of this is supposed to actually operate on the ground. I think there are still questions that need to be asked, and still questions that need to be answered\u2014without flippancy, as if the questions are an inconvenience or as if they are on purpose being silly to slow proceedings, because they\u2019re not. This whole process has been fraught with misunderstanding, and this is the only chance we get now\u2014whilst the rest of it happens during urgency\u2014to actually ask those questions. We didn\u2019t choose to introduce this horrible bill, but some of us would prefer that it at least went out in as good a shape as possible on our watch. I don\u2019t begrudge the fact that we are able to ask questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EOne of the things that, again, remains completely unanswered is going back to new section 82A, in clause 6, in so far as the \u201CAdditional consequences for certain repeated offending must not be taken into account in determining length of sentence\u201D. As was mentioned last night, but not sufficiently answered, that sentence in and of itself does a lot of heavy lifting. It\u2019s absolutely assuming that because it\u2019s written down somewhere, therefore that will occur. You can\u2019t unknow what you don\u2019t unknow. It\u2019s like asking someone not to think of polar bears and then of course that\u2019s all they can think of. There are means by which, in other fields\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u002273e5a439ad0d438b87de6024fea85ace\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273e5a439ad0d438b87de6024fea85ace\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m just going to carry on with my answers to the questions that James Meager had asked me in regard to clauses 11 and 12, which relate to Schedule 1 and Schedule 2 of the Act. Schedule 1, in clause 11, is relating to the old regime and it\u2019s providing definitions to clarify that offending under the old regime does not use the definitions of the stage-2 and stage-3 offences in the new regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn Schedule 2, in clause 12, there is a list of the qualifying offences which have been increased by two, so it has moved from 40 to 42, and it is outlining those qualifying offences which are deemed to be some of the most serious violent and sexual offences that a person could commit. Of course, every single one of those is punishable by imprisonment of over seven years, and that\u2019s why they are included. It also assists with the lower-level offending that was caught up in the last regime that we do not want carried over into this new regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn regard to the member\u2019s question about the tabled amendment to clause 7, inserting new section 86LA, that was tabled this morning at 8.46 a.m. by Duncan Webb, I will not be supporting that amendment. I will take note that there is a six-month commencement period in order for the courts and judiciary to prepare for implementation. As I mentioned last night, the Ministry of Justice operational staff are working on ways to ensure that the offenders are aware of how they are affected by carrying over those previous strikes. Of course, this will have some logistical and privacy issues for those individuals, which is why it\u2019s important that we do have that six-month implementation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u002259400ee09f3d49f4aa18936157a58cd0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259400ee09f3d49f4aa18936157a58cd0\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221c441251e874b63ba1bfce6a82e4caa\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00224f11e149a3b14ef498114830f9643791\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f11e149a3b14ef498114830f9643791\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Duncan Webb.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022858593d4837a46bebf2a513badd3df2d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022858593d4837a46bebf2a513badd3df2d\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Yes, my Green colleague did have a turn just before, and I\u2019ve got a number of tabled amendments that I haven\u2019t got to, including the one the Associate Minister of Justice just alluded to. Unlike Mr Meager, I didn\u2019t stay up late last night; I got a jolly good night\u2019s sleep, and so I\u2019m here ready to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIn respect of my proposed new section 86KA, this goes to the deterrence effect, because the Associate Minister of Justice is retrospectively reviving former strikes and yet, I mean, the offenders who had those strikes, and will again have those strikes, won\u2019t know about them. If the purpose of this bill is premised on the assertion, flawed though it is, that if people know the consequences for further offending are greater, they are less likely to commit that offending\u2014that\u2019s the fundamental theory underpinning this. If that\u2019s the theory, then you\u2019ve got to tell the people who are affected that the consequences of further offending are greater than the norm, they are disproportionate, to use the words of Paul Goldsmith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EMy proposal is that the people who are having their strikes revived, if you like\u2014reinstated\u2014are told that that is the case. They are informed in writing, because that\u2019s the only way the whole theory can actually work. There\u2019s a kind of natural justice issue in here as well, isn\u2019t there? They\u2019re subject to something, a change, which they have no knowledge of, and if they don\u2019t have any knowledge of it, it clearly can\u2019t affect their behaviour. That\u2019s that tabled amendment to clause 7, inserting new section 86LA, that was tabled today, although I prepared it yesterday afternoon, just for James Meager\u2019s goody two-shoes benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThen, the other tabled amendment that I\u2019ve got there is to remove the words \u201Cif the offender is before the court at that time\u201D in clause 7, new section 86M\u2014I\u2019d be interested in the Minister talking about this, because it\u2019s actually quite an interesting point. Throughout the bill, it talks about recalling an offender to the court if the sentence was imposed at a time they were not in court. Now, I find that very unusual, because, by definition, it\u2019s a sentence of imprisonment that is being imposed. I\u2019m perplexed as to the circumstances in which a person is sentenced to imprisonment and isn\u2019t before the court. I would\u2019ve certainly thought that in those cases, you shouldn\u2019t be sentencing someone to prison unless they\u2019re there in front of you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI know the Minister\u2019s keen\u2014and, in fact, she\u2019s had the cooperation, to a large degree, of this side of the House\u2014on audiovisual link (AVL) to assist some of the court backlogs. It may be that that\u2019s an allusion to the fact that there\u2019s, conceivably, situations where there\u2019s sentencing by AVL and you actually want it to be genuinely face to face, not across AVL. My tabled amendment that was filed at 12.48 p.m. yesterday\u2014to remove the words \u201Cif the offender is before the court at that time\u201D in clause 7, new section 86M\u2014actually addresses that. I do think that if you\u2019re going to sentence someone to prison for a strikable offence, then they should be in front of you, and it shouldn\u2019t be a case that you sentence them in their absence, which seems bizarre to me, and then you get them back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s the other thing in terms of getting them back, to summons. You\u2019ve just sentenced someone to imprisonment and then you\u2019re issuing a summons or, stage-2, a warrant for their arrest, but you\u2019ve just sentenced them to imprisonment. This is the kind of gobbledygook that is throughout this piece of legislation, which makes it very hard to follow. I\u2019m really concerned, as my colleague the Hon Ginny Andersen said: in practical terms, is it workable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019m very interested in those two things. You\u2019ll see I\u2019ve done two of my tabled amendments in one hit, the one being the notification of strikes and the other one on the offender being before the court at the time of the sentencing and warning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022d35fcf85b6164f1394dd32c96aec57ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d35fcf85b6164f1394dd32c96aec57ec\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd66f64bcf854a9e9c000b2c897c2272\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd66f64bcf854a9e9c000b2c897c2272\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I want to thank the Associate Minister of Justice for answering my previous question, and I want to point to a new section that I haven\u2019t spoken to in the committee stage yet, which is new section\u00A086V, in clause 7, around \u201CHow cessation of record affects later sentences\u201D. My question to the Minister is a point of clarification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, in new sections 86V(2), (2A) and (2B), it makes references to what an appropriate court is despite the fact that we see the mention of \u201Cappropriate court\u201D in new section 86U(5). I was curious to know particularly around why new section 86V(2A) came about, because I wasn\u2019t actually part of the select committee stage when this was being discussed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENew section 86V(2) mentions \u201CHigh Court\u201D, section 86V(2A) mentions \u201CIf [it] \u2026 is not the High Court, \u2026 by a higher court\u201D, and then section 86V(2B) is \u201CDistrict Court\u201D. I\u00A0guess the question is: why separate out the High Court from \u201Cnot the High Court\u201D and\u00A0from \u201CDistrict Court\u201D? The rest of A and B is exactly the same. Presumably if you\u00A0have section 86V(2) just say \u201CHigh Court and above\u201D, it would cover off both subsections (2) and (2A) quite nicely?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EMy understanding is that you get the High Court, you get the Court of Appeal, you get the Supreme Court, and below the High Court, you have the District Court. What I wanted to check is: does subsection (2A), in fact, factor in another court that would have this power that is beyond the current higher courts of District, High, Court of Appeal, and Supreme? If it doesn\u2019t, wouldn\u2019t it be better and less confusing or convoluted to have sections 86V(2) and 86V(2A) together?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022 data-id=\u00226d87d84e0f3f4c3a89c11a4e72481730\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d87d84e0f3f4c3a89c11a4e72481730\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (Whip\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd1bcfc2d34d4c85a12cf679b4557d63\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd1bcfc2d34d4c85a12cf679b4557d63\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I think we\u2019re almost a quarter of the way through my tabled amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe next tabled amendment I\u2019d like to talk about is the amendment to clause 7 to insert paragraph (d) into new section 86M(2), filed at 12.46 p.m. This is the summons to an offender to attend to get their warning. I must say, if you put yourself, if you can, in that situation: you\u2019ve just been sentenced to 12 months in prison, you\u2019ve been on remand for 14 months, so you walk out the door with time served. Then they forgot to give you your warning whilst you were before the court, and then you get a summons. Now, you\u2019re not going to be over the moon about that, right?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThere is a challenge there, because a lot of these people may be distant. They may have been convicted in a court which is in a different city, because there\u2019s this rule that you\u2019ve got\u00A0to go do your sentence in court in a different city from where you\u2019re actually living. Whilst, if you are arrested, the constabulary will no doubt assist you with your transport needs, that\u2019s not the ideal solution. My tabled amendment notes, or suggests, that where there is a summons\u2014not a warrant; a summons\u2014then the offender should be given all necessary assistance, including travel by the most convenient means, and that\u2019s not a paddy wagon; that would be an aircraft if it\u2019s a long distance, because they\u2019ve got to get there, right? Certainly, if a witness is summonsed to the court, the person summonsing them has the obligation to pay the travel costs. I think that\u2019s actually a really important thing, because these are people for whom travel is often not easy. It\u2019s not going to be easy\u2014even if it\u2019s just to get into court in Wellington from Upper Hutt, it\u2019s still a challenge. That\u2019s that tabled amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe next tabled amendment I\u2019d like to talk about is the amendment to clause 7 to insert paragraph (c) into new section 86M(2), filed at 12.45 p.m. This, again, relates to warnings not being given at the time. As it currently stands, new section 86M provides that the court can, essentially, go back and give that warning indefinitely. They forget\u2014and this is the point Ginny Andersen made about the court systems not being good; we know they\u2019re struggling in there\u2014they don\u2019t give the warning, two years pass, and then they\u2019re like, \u201COops, let\u2019s recall this person so we can give this warning.\u201D Well, that kind of oversight isn\u2019t acceptable, and there has to be a time which is no longer reasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EMy proposed amendment inserts paragraph (3)(c), and it simply says that \u201CIn no circumstances is a warning to be administered more than six months after the offender has been sentenced.\u201D It gives a grace period which I think\u2019s quite reasonable, but if the court hasn\u2019t got its stuff together within that six months, you don\u2019t have this hanging over your head indefinitely. There is a situation where you could get two warnings late, right? All of a sudden the court realises they\u2019ve missed a warning and then they go back and look and see that they\u2019ve missed two warning\u2014so you go from zero warnings to being on your third strike.\u00A0That would be outrageous and would entirely undermine the purpose of this bill, which is actually to let people know the consequences of further serious offending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s that amendment, and I\u2019m trying to get through them because I know that kids on the other side are getting a little bit grumpy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0fd79fa285243cd9e41a2deeccae805\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebf5a4d728e54af484190b329a2b3146\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Because I\u2019m still on warnings\u2014I\u2019m on still warnings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022733c2964770041739413371f310b8701\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a bit early.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d24ee5a9a8bb4105807e61ab2a4aff37\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, ha! The next tabled amendment, the amendment to clause 7 to insert subsection (6) into new section 86M, filed at 12.49 p.m. yesterday\u2014the Minister said something that I was quite concerned about in relation to warnings. That was that the judge can use any words they like because it is really important that the warning is clearly expressed. In that situation, what we need\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00224d3ba7f2635d4ee5b1b3e8894cdcc9ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d3ba7f2635d4ee5b1b3e8894cdcc9ce\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired..\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u00225f390efd32a747a3ac941d6cfe8115fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f390efd32a747a3ac941d6cfe8115fd\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I just would like to address the questions from Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan, the member from the Greens, about new section 86V(2A), inserted by clause 7. Section 86V(2A) allows the Court of Appeal to take the necessary actions if they feel that that is appropriate, and subsection (2B) is also reflecting that, in some cases, the District Court may have taken the actions relating to\u00A0the earlier warning ceasing, while the later qualifying sentence may relate to an offence that the District Court does not have jurisdiction to deal with. For example, if the latter sentence was for murder or a stage-3 offence that required the High Court or above to deal with it\u2014so\u00A0a category 3 or category 4 offence must be heard in the higher courts; whereas categories 1 and 2 are heard in the District Courts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s amendments, I feel that I have addressed all of those yesterday evening, and I stick by what I said at that stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00225c771d79fe71445aafec1c5051ff41cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c771d79fe71445aafec1c5051ff41cc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the next contribution, many of the tabled amendments that were filed were discussed last night. My understanding, just going through some of the notes, is that many of those have been addressed. The way forward for me and for the committee would be that, if you\u2019re referencing those, you preface your remarks with a question\u2014a question, in particular, that the Minister has not addressed. Of course, there are other amendments on the Table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203d3eda96dcb452aafe7c30b49f15470\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Thank you for your guidance on that. I do think it\u2019s really important that this is a committee for debate, and whilst I accept that there\u2019s a question and answer aspect to what goes on under the more recent convention, what the Minister has done is stand up and say, in pretty cursory terms in many cases, \u201CI don\u2019t like that.\u201D, \u201CI won\u2019t be supporting that.\u201D, and so on. There is an entitlement to speak to Amendment Papers, including of other members, to make the case that the Minister should adopt them, and the Minister can\u2019t peremptorily say, \u201CThat\u2019s not the case because I\u2019m not supporting it anyway.\u201D I just want to make sure that you didn\u2019t suggest\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022bbb3b0d32e034a3d96d2d13ac00e816b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bbb3b0d32e034a3d96d2d13ac00e816b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: That is my understanding, but I\u2019m sure you\u2019ll be able to preface your comments with questions which would help to illuminate the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u002266aeb54bc7674af58cfa1ca62960d9b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266aeb54bc7674af58cfa1ca62960d9b0\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and also thank you to Associate Minister of Justice McKee for the response about new section 86V, inserted by clause 7\u2014that was very helpful and actually was very clear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI would like to discuss a new clause, and this is clause 10, amending section 104, which I believe has not been particularly discussed. I know that some of the other members, and particularly some of the Government members, have discussed clauses 11 and 12, but I want to specifically focus on clause 10 in terms of the list of circumstances under section 104(1A), and understandably those circumstances, I believe, are some of the most concerning that we do see in our communities, particularly from the perspective of premeditation. I\u2019m wanting to specifically ask the Minister some questions around subsection (1A)(j) with regards to: \u201Cany other exceptional circumstances that exist.\u201D I want to check with the Minister whether the Minister would consider hate crime as one of the criteria within this particular list.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, for my community, for the ethnic communities and for migrants of colour, for Pasifika, for groups with certain religious affiliation\u2014it could be any religious affiliation\u2014the idea of hate crime or violence or even murder as a result of hate crime is a significant factor, and it may not meet the threshold of what you see in subsection (1A)(f) in terms of being \u201Ccommitted as part of a terrorist act\u201D, which we know very well. I wanted to check if, specifically in the context of hate crime, it would be something that the Minister would be open to as part of the exceptional circumstances that exist beyond what is listed here in section 104 (1A), in clause 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022ded0b8bd54214bc2a0a78534374ee2ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ded0b8bd54214bc2a0a78534374ee2ed\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for that question. There is no law on hate crime as such right now, but what we do have are 42 qualifying offences. One would think that in exceptional circumstances where one would think it is hate crime, it would actually\u2014if it\u2019s a serious violent crime\u2014come under the auspices of one of the 42 serious offences that are already there. We do not have a reference to hate crime as such in our legislation. Therefore, we will be sticking to the 42 offences listed in Schedule 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u0022abb1d74cfc45477d83428f05e1c16009\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022abb1d74cfc45477d83428f05e1c16009\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I haven\u2019t had the opportunity to take a call on this bill, so I thought I would do that, seeing as I was listening to the debate last night and also this morning, and I didn\u2019t have the opportunity to take part in the select committee that considered this bill. It\u2019s not one that I think anyone in the committee is unfamiliar with, because of the history of three strikes and the politicisation of this particular piece of criminal law in terms of the way that it\u2019s being implemented. I do have some questions for Associate Minister of Justice McKee, specifically in relation to the clauses in Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EJust for context, I wanted to prepare for my contribution as I hadn\u2019t been in the select committee, to make sure that my comments were relevant to the debate and also relevant to the discussions that had gone on by a number of other people. I was struck, really, by the report from the select committee, especially in relation to the number of parties who disagreed with the Minister\u2019s approach. That is a question that I want to ask the Minister. The reason it\u2019s relevant to Part 1 is because Part 1 is the operative part of this bill, which, essentially, sets in place the new change in relation to the three strikes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EJust to briefly put into context for the Minister before I go to my questions, the Ministry of Justice in fact didn\u2019t think that there was a lot of evidence for introducing this bill and said\u00A0they preferred the status quo. The Children\u2019s Commissioner opposed the bill. The New Zealand Bar Association opposed the bill. The Law Society opposed the bill. The Pacific Lawyers Association opposed the bill. The Human Rights Commission opposed the bill. Te Hunga R\u014Dia M\u0101ori o Aotearoa opposed the bill. The Law Association opposed the bill. There is a significant amount of opposition to this bill, and it is based on the evidence, Minister, from my assessment of this proposed legislation, that it actually doesn\u2019t work in furthering the passionate objectives that she has put forward in this committee stage, in the sense of making sure that violent offenders are not on the streets. I\u2019m sure everyone in the committee agrees that people who are a danger to society should not be out on the streets, but it appears that the experts in this field that participated in the select committee process do not agree with\u00A0her assessment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EWe have traversed the reason for an even worse change in my view, the retrospectivity change that takes into account previous warnings, and I think she\u2019s received\u2014I think we\u2019ve had it agreed, but she may want to comment on this\u2014at least three emails on that point. If there is this weight of opinion against this bill, which is operative in Part 1, what and who is she relying on to make sure her ambitions and her noble objectives of keeping New Zealanders safe will actually be furthered by this bill? Did she consider, in fact, looking and talking to some of those organisations who did participate in the select committee process, to ask them what they believe would actually keep New Zealanders safe, as opposed to bringing back a piece of legislation that doesn\u2019t work, based on evidence, based on independent assessment, and based on the fact that there is very little evidence worldwide that more serious sanctions result in fewer pieces of offending? That is something that is a principle that has been looked at worldwide and with many different, more harsh penalties than this. That is an\u00A0overall question that I have for the Minister in relation to Part 1, and I wondered if she could address that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI also wanted to ask her, when there is a warning put in place and when she has put in a complicated regime where the \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D provision can be taken into account by the judge, what, in her mind, is evidence that suggests that judges are not able to make that assessment currently when imposing a sentence? As she has outlined in Part 1 in the proposed new section 86T, inserted by clause 7, in this bill, there is a provision here for it to be manifestly unjust. Now, I think we have an excellent impartial judiciary in New Zealand. I think they get out of bed every day and they do a hard job and they do the best job that they can, and my view, from what I\u2019ve seen of the criminal law, and I\u2019m not as experienced as some members in this House\u2014but from what I\u2019ve seen, they do a fantastic job at weighing all the evidence\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022dab78de7c5fd44e996ae480dcbed9686\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dab78de7c5fd44e996ae480dcbed9686\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. In relation to the last member Camilla Belich\u2019s comments, there were 749 submissions, of which 188 submitters were opposed to the bill, and the member listed off quite a number of them. However, there were 515 submitters who either supported the bill or they didn\u2019t support the bill because they wanted the bill to be harsher and, therefore, wanted it gone so that they could have an even stronger bill, including reinstating three strikes as it was in its old regime. In regards to new section 86T, inserted by clause 7, I did speak to that extensively this morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u00221e62cecb49b94e7c81a60af259ba3892\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e62cecb49b94e7c81a60af259ba3892\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc389cb50d13498197fbe4c52324c593\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc389cb50d13498197fbe4c52324c593\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Brand new points still in their wrapping paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022a344c1ab80dc42ebb8dffa481f94a38b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a344c1ab80dc42ebb8dffa481f94a38b\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, thank you, Mr Chair. What I propose to do is to go through these tabled amendments pretty quickly. I could do them one at a time in a couple of minutes, but I propose to just see how many I\u00A0can get through, and then the Associate Minister of Justice can respond to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe one I want to start with is about the centrepiece of this legislation, which is the warning itself. I was about to say, before I was sat down before, that I\u2019m concerned that judges aren\u2019t given guidance as to what the warning should be because the understanding on the part of the offender is the critical point of this piece of legislation. My tabled amendment to clause 7 to insert subsection (6) into new section 86M says this: \u201CThe Attorney General\u201D\u2014and the Minister might think someone else would be better, but I thought the Attorney-General was not bad\u2014\u201Cmay provide wording for warnings administered under this act. Where [the] words are used in making a warning [this] warning is irrebuttably presumed to be accurate and clear\u00A0for the purposes of the preceding section.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s, basically, a safe harbour. Use these words, and they\u2019re considered irrebuttably. Now, you can use other words if you want, but if you do that, if you get it wrong, if you stumble over your words, or even if it\u2019s just not clear, then you run that risk. That ties in with the next tabled amendment to clause 7 to insert subsection (6A) into new section 86M, which says: \u201CIn the event that the warning is not accurate or did not accurately communicate the possible consequences if the offender received a further qualifying sentence, then the warning is of no effect.\u201D That is actually really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI guess my question to the Minister is this\u2014and I think the Minister can actually add meaningfully to the operation of this bill in answering this\u2014if a warning is administered in a way which is in some way not accurate or is communicated in a confusing or complex manner, even though it\u2019s technically accurate, does she agree that that warning would be of no effect? In this House, we inform the way judges apply the law, so that question and answer is actually an important one. If there is an error\u2014it\u2019s got two parts\u2014in the warning, is the warning of no effect; if the warning is not comprehensible to the offender, is the warning of no effect? I see that your officials are assisting you, and it would be good to get an answer to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022 data-id=\u0022df212cdbe16f47cbbb3da97c48b17ba4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df212cdbe16f47cbbb3da97c48b17ba4\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229ba5aba2536140d39549b60102586a53\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba5be9d9e47f4de980312a61a9a2ee59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba5be9d9e47f4de980312a61a9a2ee59\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4(2) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002231faa1efe2f44a94bdb63d674182a446\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002281d0e9d82a3947768f5538484ed2a512\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281d0e9d82a3947768f5538484ed2a512\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to delete clause 4(2) and amend clause 7, new section 86K(2)(b), be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229e246aae4ccd40d79289ddbc900a336d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab1b9302e35a4273a0af0e0b647127eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab1b9302e35a4273a0af0e0b647127eb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Mariameno Kapa-Kingi\u2019s tabled amendment inserting new clause 4A is out of order as being outside the scope of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to delete clause 5 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f4509223dc7f4dac8608bf48796141a4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00222691b17c3ba54316b1d10a1ddfe312c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222691b17c3ba54316b1d10a1ddfe312c0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to new subsection (2) of clause 5 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225057e1b101694d0687affd6695f15898\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00220764401ea44f4a47a5f4014d5d87add7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220764401ea44f4a47a5f4014d5d87add7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 6, new section 82A(1), be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227994aa2e45584bad9d3a3115006b4424\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbcb2a4f80644b1eb9d86410d3a08f1d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbcb2a4f80644b1eb9d86410d3a08f1d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Mariameno Kapa-Kingi\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 6 inserting new section 82A(1A) requiring courts to consider the potential for disproportionate impacts on M\u0101ori offenders be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002242a6c9459f404c7fa0afab3bade625be\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00226af03c5194e443b2bb84c595faaae808\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226af03c5194e443b2bb84c595faaae808\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Mariameno Kapa-Kingi\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 6 inserting new section 82A(1A) requiring courts to give consideration to tikanga M\u0101ori-based restorative justice be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225b1faf256d944435b46129c0eceab3d0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022a771fd7a5946402db29873d7012b4c0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a771fd7a5946402db29873d7012b4c0d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 6 inserting new subsection (3) into new section 82A be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225ce59976ed8a45d4b265d1aff97deb60\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022af0a7c688d824cf89d320f667704dcf6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af0a7c688d824cf89d320f667704dcf6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 7, new section 86J, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002267dcf4fbe601492985fb34f23f79f5bb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2dd8d3fd58343db938cb6bf20248c79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2dd8d3fd58343db938cb6bf20248c79\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 replacing \u201C18\u201D with \u201C25\u201D in new section 86J be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229c4be352a72345aba5adbb07b5a8493b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022375a58780b8e41f090693516fead30b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022375a58780b8e41f090693516fead30b4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 replacing \u201C12\u201D with \u201C24\u201D and \u201C24\u201D with \u201C36\u201D in new section 86J be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e5f024f2100e446a892d6c6e8cb28341\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc0542e5941b4d4c9383f706873407a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc0542e5941b4d4c9383f706873407a0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 deleting text from the definitions of \u201Crecord of first warning\u201D and \u201Crecord of subsequent warnings\u201D in new section 86J be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228310ecc990c447e9ab256722c945b46c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00228cc15e3465c7431983371a25237de990\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228cc15e3465c7431983371a25237de990\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 inserting \u201Cphysical\u201D into the definitions of \u201Crecord of first warning\u201D and \u201Crecord of subsequent warnings\u201D in new section 86J be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222083a6691d8b43cc91b19e7c72ab8aea\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00224540b3b291594c5cb41d054e1108efd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224540b3b291594c5cb41d054e1108efd4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 amending new section 86K and 86M to specify that warnings must be given in person be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002283ef753019fb434795fccf167bda147e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00223621534048514973a9c4026fedbe9d50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223621534048514973a9c4026fedbe9d50\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 amending new section 86K and 86L to add the word \u201Cdeterminate\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227acef7d3310c4a85aa49d4e0ad6b7473\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022d25b8ae0a9104f3f8dfad769f1eeae28\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d25b8ae0a9104f3f8dfad769f1eeae28\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 deleting new section 86KA, 86U(2A), and 86U(2B) be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f09741afa43e4cbcafa43726e0c3160d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022554259c3f7f44d88889e90440c0e06cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022554259c3f7f44d88889e90440c0e06cd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 to replace new section 86KA be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a4bb83587fc7483fb57ef3b76ecb6f03\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022b17eb46980264b738fbd142839cec37f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b17eb46980264b738fbd142839cec37f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 amending new section 86L to remove reference to stage-3 offences be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022966ef083a33d47379bb78f221a579c9e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022bbcb7d021aa14970ad3bc387b5b84499\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bbcb7d021aa14970ad3bc387b5b84499\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 inserting new section 86LA be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022766691b2b4884988ade35df785c93437\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc997f3d9a1244b8b9632ee297b9f68d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc997f3d9a1244b8b9632ee297b9f68d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 amending new section 86M(1) to replace \u201Cthat\u201D with \u201Cthe\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224b79c2d9b6974f76ba1edd248bfa8a6f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022f99ab5046cf546a7a5ae5a0ce3e4f491\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f99ab5046cf546a7a5ae5a0ce3e4f491\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to remove the words \u201Cif the offender is before the court at that time\u201D in clause 7, new section 86M, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220a888378d0a74c7194a2df00d99fdfdf\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2a61f23f6894d8fb002a559a2e780f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2a61f23f6894d8fb002a559a2e780f2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 to insert paragraph (c) into new section 86M(2) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222203a3d46d7649a69af32c1071a85e08\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0155026897e4126b51504be09279e54\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0155026897e4126b51504be09279e54\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 to insert paragraph (d) into new section 86M(2) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224f015d51113f4397b2c5730a13e5d6e4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00221171e2be01a448069bfbda6b7b2ccd8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221171e2be01a448069bfbda6b7b2ccd8b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 amending new section 86M(3AA) to replace \u201C12\u201D with \u201C24\u201D and \u201C24\u201D with \u201C36\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022477ddab175704b99b2670f100619c84f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8493e1be5d14934846dd2eee3eab014\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8493e1be5d14934846dd2eee3eab014\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 to insert paragraph (c) into new section 86M(3B) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a47e0cb68ffd403e9536ca2e254155d5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002206961e287b3a4708a7832bed966cad5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206961e287b3a4708a7832bed966cad5c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 to insert subsection (3C) into new section 86M be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022dc29d0cc9cca433e8a9498829f99d3ce\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022047bd76803b349cfb20027241b5ef992\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022047bd76803b349cfb20027241b5ef992\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 amending new section 86M(5) to require a judge to check that offenders understand the nature and consequences of warnings be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229f0ab96a7aeb4d928d446f4e6e7e8aa3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d965691f62e24db88dc82cfd4b077d24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d965691f62e24db88dc82cfd4b077d24\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 to insert subsection (6) into new section 86M be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022eecf44b959d044eeb9cfd2de6234f8fc\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00226ece8acf1d8c44cda9a49984b5ae256c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ece8acf1d8c44cda9a49984b5ae256c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 to insert subsection (6A) into new section 86M be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227b05d39b8c904ad2906577fa58f8de8d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00228c79e715239d49b5a7f58fd8e35965e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c79e715239d49b5a7f58fd8e35965e6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 to replace subsection (3) in new section 86N be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a6b8c2bf8ca945f4a61183a41df5b248\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d32d0ea2e8414640b962c0f794f72835\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d32d0ea2e8414640b962c0f794f72835\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s remaining tabled amendment to clause 7, new section 86N, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f23a2813114f41bdb9156ef3baa1e847\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef714676b2de4ee589fdac82dae670a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef714676b2de4ee589fdac82dae670a7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 amending new section 86N(3) to delete paragraph (b) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228889444df8c34897b552d3f861da41a9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00228d1cdd1723234b588df2585d8a71d721\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d1cdd1723234b588df2585d8a71d721\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 amending new section 86O to replace \u201C24\u201D with \u201C36\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002205df1366a34745b6bb3ad674a52dd094\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002280bc5b76ffb041cf8fef97634ac001b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280bc5b76ffb041cf8fef97634ac001b1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 7 deleting new sections 86O(2) and 86R(3) are out of order as being contrary to the objects and principles of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 to insert subsection (5) into new section 86O be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d492cbbcea5244469fa38a2aea67e4cc\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002272b2fd8faeb0442280afabb01e27f101\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272b2fd8faeb0442280afabb01e27f101\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 replacing new section 86P(2) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002269812bdf08754d80b4c073f9ba2b8f78\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f95ea77b4c75407cb6d72686f0c3aa2d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f95ea77b4c75407cb6d72686f0c3aa2d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7, new section 86R, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002284c35beb828349a189ad408e58f2bd7e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb400677c08144ebbffec0ce07143def\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb400677c08144ebbffec0ce07143def\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 amending new section 86R(6)(a) to replace \u201C2\u201D with \u201C3\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002210e297c7f52546d4bbefc566319cb7a7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022181b854e42ee4b2a973525d04326515e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022181b854e42ee4b2a973525d04326515e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 amending new section 86S(2) to replace \u201C18\u201D with \u201C12\u201D and \u201C20\u201D with \u201C17\u201D be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223c9224c0876c4247a0653485e166d45d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022473a0784fa6d49c4a738f4053dd3ab07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022473a0784fa6d49c4a738f4053dd3ab07\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7, new section 86T, be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c515d069d606452d91218c20c44678ea\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d87a5ebade6f454b8b612cf6b8c7ba68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d87a5ebade6f454b8b612cf6b8c7ba68\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 amending new section 86T(2)(c) and inserting paragraph (d) be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002208ce7a96bf564894b282ff65bf8bb4d1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00227170d55bd6ed4f9bb3eb468accf70693\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227170d55bd6ed4f9bb3eb468accf70693\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 to insert paragraph (d) into new section 86T(2) be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220ff6a6b6e3274ac48b97c3b5ace9ced3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00227e6bb119c82046ebb0afb8b801b0f216\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e6bb119c82046ebb0afb8b801b0f216\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 to insert new section 86UA be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f76c58ba8e294b0ea5cfc9bc94e0b07f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022628c6544952e4ada86e11002e5d3a337\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022628c6544952e4ada86e11002e5d3a337\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 amending new section 86V be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224d4786a2343f4c45b063f0ff5599f1ba\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022372ce6bfa49d442baf5e3acf7dff40c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022372ce6bfa49d442baf5e3acf7dff40c3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 amending new section 86X to delete subsection (2) be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ded33f82954a44daac0d666bf3789e15\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022fce5128629cb4fb5bac1a6c074efb047\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fce5128629cb4fb5bac1a6c074efb047\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Mariameno Kapa-Kingi\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 inserting new section 86XY relating to Treaty Impact Statements be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228f69853234564185ad032e747672d025\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002294a23c864e274096bc293d435417dbc5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294a23c864e274096bc293d435417dbc5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I just would like to remind members across the Chamber that we vote in silence. We need to hear what\u2019s being said. We know some of these amendments are tensionable, but let\u2019s just move on in silence with the voting. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 to insert new section 86Y be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b8e9b10926a54b148ad517a04a4b434d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e17887ee99ee428e8cbbc8bd2d39e303\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e17887ee99ee428e8cbbc8bd2d39e303\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 inserting a new section 86Y be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022902a62ec755f4f9381475e4496eb287c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002283b2e8d62b004aa1a1cc6d9c6c7aea14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283b2e8d62b004aa1a1cc6d9c6c7aea14\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 to insert new section 86Z be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e112ccc4e3ad46619a7d7504551b53e2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022230d6dfb0e824a8cb06e8fe12b8ab8f3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ac359eb6038b40b3a90a45843dfc07c2\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendments to other acts\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00226182f4cc2dbd4434b05ff05d110f0ee7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226182f4cc2dbd4434b05ff05d110f0ee7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to Part 2. Part 2 is the debate on clauses 13 to 23, \u201CAmendments to other acts\u201D, and Schedules 2A and 3. The question is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022139b17e210544b8db7b8e192e108e99b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022139b17e210544b8db7b8e192e108e99b\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I\u2019ll just take a quick call here, looking at the amendments proposed by my colleague Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan in Part 2: one\u2019s relating to clause 14; one\u2019s relating to clause 16. I\u2019m keen to understand from the Associate Minister of Justice whether or not she\u2019ll be supporting those amendments and the rationale as to whether she will be or not, and then I\u2019m keen to move to the more substantive parts of the legislation that we\u2019ll be progressing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022074e0f1d25bf4311a2ff0f9fa51943b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022074e0f1d25bf4311a2ff0f9fa51943b8\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you to the member Tom Rutherford for his question. I did pre-empt this a bit last night and actually went through these when we were on Part 1. I\u2019ll repeat what I said yesterday evening. In relation to the Green Party member Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to delete clauses 20 to 22, I do not agree with that member\u2019s position. I believe that offenders should face serious consequences for repeat offending. Just a reminder that there is a \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D exception within the bill to assist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn relation to the tabled amendment to clause 14, replacing paragraph (b) and inserting a new subclause (4)(c), again, I do not feel that this is necessary. This is adding items to the list that have already been covered. Therefore, I will not be supporting that either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u002278923b29ccc44a919c656e31fe0996cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278923b29ccc44a919c656e31fe0996cc\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Thank you for that explanation before, as well. Again, I think I want to start methodologically for Part 2, and I want to start with clause 14. I\u2019ll come to clause 16 a little bit later.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, in terms of clause 14, I want to get some clarification from the Associate Minister of Justice in terms of the definition of \u201Csentence\u201D. This is the amendment to the Criminal Procedure Act. I know that we talked about the Criminal Procedure Act before in the context of what is considered a permanent court record, but I think, in this case, what we\u2019re seeing is that \u201Csentence\u201D here in clause 14, inserting replacement section 180(4)(a), makes sense\u2014that\u2019s fine\u2014but I\u2019m looking at replacement section 180(4)(b), and this is the part that I want clarification on. It says a sentence includes \u201Ca record of first warning and a record of subsequent warning\u201D\u2014\u201Cand\u201D not \u201Cor\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI wanted to check, in this case, does the Minister consider that a sentence will only be considered or is only defined when you have both a first warning and subsequent warning? This is one of my tabled amendments. I don\u2019t know what timestamp it has, but it is the one that amends this particular clause, which is just separating out these two particular clauses to specify that these two\u2014first warning and record of subsequent warning\u2014are in fact mutually exclusive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EAnother point I want to check with the Minister is, again, that when we are looking at the use of \u201Cand\u201D, and \u201Cor\u201D in this case, if we\u2019re looking at clause 18\u2014this is the amendment to the Evidence Act 2006\u2014it says, \u201CBefore section 139(1)(c), insert: (ba)\u201D. Then, in this case, it indeed used \u201Ca record of first warning or a record of subsequent warning\u201D\u2014\u201Cor\u201D instead of \u201Cand\u201D. I guess the clarification I need from the Minister is whether replacement section 180(4)(b) requires both or are they mutually exclusive? If indeed they are mutually exclusive, will the Minister consider my amendment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u00221338c3bce11242659c9dd4d8ea3fea20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221338c3bce11242659c9dd4d8ea3fea20\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you to that member. I did just speak to the member\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 14, replacing paragraph (b) and inserting a new subclause (4)(c), which I thought was unnecessary. This is a technical portion of the bill\u2014Subpart 2\u2014and, really, clause 14 is looking at the definition of \u201Csentence\u201D in replacement section 180(4). It\u2019s amended to include records of first warning and subsequent warnings, including the giving and the recording of those warnings, as well as orders which could be issued under the new three-strikes regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWhile I\u2019m on my feet, I realise I missed out the tabled amendment to clause 16(6) and the insertion that the member wishes to make after section 34(5) of the Criminal Procedure (Mentally Impaired Persons) Act 2003. I will not be supporting that tabled amendment. The court already has the discretion in being able to decide about what is a qualifying sentence, and we\u2019re happy with that provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00221e92b438904544509f543bac55bae6e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e92b438904544509f543bac55bae6e9\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E A lot of this part is in some ways administrative, but I do have two things I want to ask and, to be fair, it\u2019s simply around the complexity of this legislation and how it interacts, and that\u2019s in respect of the Criminal Procedure (Mentally Impaired Persons) Act and also a bit later on, if I get to it, the Parole Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EClause 16, which amends section 34 of the Criminal Procedure (Mentally Impaired Persons) Act, inserts into section 34 an additional provision. Section 34 provides the power of the court to commit an offender to hospital or a facility. Obviously, this is for mental health reasons, and I think, in this House, we don\u2019t all agree on this bill but we all accept that where offenders and prisoners have mental health and other issues that part of the corrections system is to address that. I may have this wrong, but I\u2019m just a little concerned that the proposed insertion provides that \u201CNo order may be made under subsection (1)(b) in respect of an offender who is convicted of a stage-2 offence, or a stage-3 offence, [for] which the court would, in the absence of that paragraph, have imposed a qualifying sentence.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow, to be honest, it\u2019s not clear to me, but I\u2019m concerned whether that provision, in fact, limits the ability of a court to make an order under the Criminal Procedure (Mentally Impaired Persons) Act that that person be sent to a medical facility so that their mental health issues can receive treatment, because I don\u2019t understand that to be part of our kind of punishment regime\u2014to deprive people of health treatments; in fact, the opposite, that people in corrections should be getting health treatments and, in particular, mental health treatments. I might have that wrong, but I\u2019ll give the Associate Minister of Justice an opportunity and I\u2019ll come back to my parole question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022526d5487c50b4ac79809709788f62053\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022526d5487c50b4ac79809709788f62053\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for his question. The changes that are being made to the availability of orders, under the Criminal Procedure (Mentally Impaired Persons) Act 2003\u2014I can see why the member has asked some questions on this. The bill, as introduced, actually restricted the availability of post-conviction orders for treatment instead of a sentence, when the court would have otherwise imposed a qualifying sentence at all three stages. This is intended to ensure that serious offending receives serious sentences, and to reflect that orders imposed instead of a sentence are typically reserved just for the minor offending. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe majority of the Justice Committee actually recommended that the availability of the post-conviction orders, under the Criminal Procedure (Mentally Impaired Persons) Act 2003, only be limited at stage-2 and stage-3 of the three-strikes regime. There is no limit on orders at stage-1. It\u2019s not required, because there are no mandatory penalties at stage-1, but because there are mandatory penalties at stage-2 and stage-3, we are happy with where we\u2019ve landed with this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac1fc9e0a0bf4f929cb255f62130b5ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac1fc9e0a0bf4f929cb255f62130b5ab\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I must say, just in response to that, that it is extremely disappointing that people who are mentally ill and in the corrections system by dint of this legislation\u2014that orders can\u2019t be made to put them in a facility where they receive the treatment that they actually need. I\u2019m quite sure that that\u2019s in breach of our international obligations under the United Nations convention known as the Mandela Rules. That\u2019s actually quite disturbing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll go to my second point, which is parole. It\u2019s clause 22 of the bill, and these are amendments to the Parole Act, and it\u2019s about non-parole periods. Now, we don\u2019t agree with it, but I understand that if you\u2019re sentenced to your second strike, you don\u2019t get parole for that sentence. The Associate Minister of Justice has alluded to the fact that it is conceivable that people could be serving a sentence and be in prison and commit a strikable offence, and so they will have two sentences. It\u2019s even possible that the sentence that they\u2019re serving is a very serious one\u2014they could be in prison for murder and be serving a very long sentence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIn clause 22, it\u2019s new subsection (3A)(b) I\u2019m concerned about, because the provision provides that \u201CAn offender who is subject to an order made under section 103(2A) of the Sentencing Act\u201D\u2014three strikes\u2014\u201Cis not eligible for parole in respect of the following sentences: (a) the sentence to which the order relates:\u201D\u2014that goes without saying\u2014\u201C(b) any other sentence to which the offender is subject when the order is made\u201D. Now, if that offender is imprisoned for murder, that is then sentencing them to life without parole\u2014life without parole\u2014because that\u2019s the sentence that that person is already serving. Elsewhere in the Act, there are quite different provisions around murder which don\u2019t say \u201Clife without parole\u201D but they do state minimum non-parole periods for people on strikes. Again, I don\u2019t agree with it, but I understand it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not just murder; it could be anyone being in prison for a sentence which is longer than the strikable offence that they\u2019ve committed in prison. In fact, by committing that strikable offence, you are actually subject to double jeopardy\u2014you\u2019re punished twice. You\u2019ve been sentenced once, and because you\u2019ve committed a strikable offence and you\u2019re still serving your sentence, you\u2019re punished again by having your ability to apply for parole for that sentence removed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe worst position is in respect of murder, which, if I\u2019ve got it right\u2014and I can see there\u2019s some work going on behind the Minister\u2014that\u2019s life without parole, and there\u2019s only one person in New Zealand who\u2019s got that. I\u2019m pretty sure that\u2019s not the legislative intent, and it may well be that we need to come out of committee and go back into it to fix that up, because it\u2019s not an easy piece of drafting, but that\u2019s what happens with complex legislation of this nature.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022416948945d4f4d4686bb34b043e50c62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022416948945d4f4d4686bb34b043e50c62\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Minister, for your response to my question on clause 14. The Associate Minister of Justice was saying that it is not required, but that didn\u2019t answer my question, which was whether they are mutually exclusive. But I\u2019m going to take that answer from the Minister as saying that they are mutually exclusive and they don\u2019t need to be considered together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, I do want to pick up on\u2014and apologies if I didn\u2019t hear it correctly\u2014when the Minister was going through my amendments, the Minister mentioned that my amendment to clause 16 doesn\u2019t need to be considered and that my amendments for clauses 20 to 22 don\u2019t need to be considered as well because we already have provisions in place for the test for what is \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D. I may have misheard the Minister, but that wasn\u2019t what my amendments were on. What I want to also remind the committee as well is that we still haven\u2019t got a clarification based on what the Hon Dr Duncan Webb mentioned earlier about what \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D really means. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EIn terms of clause 16, I am concerned that for someone who, based on the definition of mentally impaired in the Criminal Procedure (Mentally Impaired Persons) Act 2023, would not be considered, because under new section 34(6), which is to be inserted by clause 16, no order may be made, and there is no wriggle room for that. If the Minister implies that \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D is already embedded as part of subsection (6)\u2014again, a one-sentence clarification is all that I need. If it\u2019s absolutely not considered, which is what is stated here in subsection (6), that then is deeply concerning, particularly from the perspective of disability activists and the number of neurodivergent and also dyslexic people, and also people with severe mental trauma who might be put away for much longer than they are required to be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EClarification on whether \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D applies to new section 34(6) is absolutely crucial in this case. If it\u2019s not and there is no leeway if someone is at a stage-2 or a stage-3 offence, then I would like to ask the Minister what advice has been sought since this bill has been, in some ways, redrafted since the Justice Committee has received the report from the Attorney-General on the test in section 9 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u00229993975d066443c1908a4cb57cda9e1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229993975d066443c1908a4cb57cda9e1f\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m just going to go back to clause 14, just to clarify again that this is a technical tidy-up. The current wording ensures that both are covered, and the current wording, as far as I\u2019m concerned, is fine because it\u2019s the same as the previous regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn regard to clause 16, the current drafting ensures that orders under section 34(1)(b) are\u00A0only available for the lower-level offences\u2014that is, those less serious offences that are in line with current case law. Orders under section 34(1)(b) apply instead of a sentence. Orders under subsection (1)(a) are still available in all cases, and these will apply alongside the sentence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ESpeaking to clause 22, which amends section 84 of the Parole Act 2002, this is a remedial amendment correcting an error that was made when the three-strikes regime was initially repealed in the Three Strikes Legislation Repeal Act 2022. It actually does not have anything to do with the three-strikes regime itself, but because some of the provisions of the Parole Act in 2002 were repealed in error, we want to ensure that there is consistency between the Parole Act and section 103(2A) of the Sentencing Act 2002. It\u2019s important that we make it clear that there is no parole eligibility for offenders currently serving this sentence, of which there is just one, and it\u2019s merely just putting back into legislation at the earliest opportunity the error that was made when the previous Government repealed that provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u00228745684d16bb40ae8c48e426bed802ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228745684d16bb40ae8c48e426bed802ed\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s the first time I have had the chance to contribute to this debate. I just wanted to, essentially, start by just acknowledging members opposite for their contributions and for continuing to contribute and be here with us. I guess, I think, we\u2019ve all noticed the numbers in the votes at the moment. I just wanted to acknowledge the commitment that we all have, because it can be tough doing this on a Friday when there are electorates and families and things that people could be doing. I appreciate the commitment to the democratic purpose from all members opposite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ELook, I agree with Dr Webb. Dr Webb mentioned that this is, essentially, an administrative part. It makes a number of consequential amendments to other pieces of legislation. My first question to the Minister in the chair is, essentially: does she agree with that assessment, that it is an administrative part and it makes the amendments to other pieces of legislation that will operationalise the three-strikes regime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThe second point was just to Dr Xu-Nan\u2019s point and to try and wrap this up, around the \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D provisions. They are very well understood in case law. There\u2019s a reason why they are not defined in statute, because they are well understood in case law, including in Fitzgerald v Muldoon, which the member is very well accommodated with. It\u2019s my feeling that we have covered that off in Part 1 and we shouldn\u2019t be relitigating the meanings of \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D, because we\u2019ve already made a determination on that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ETo the Associate Minister of Justice: is my understanding correct that this is, essentially, a gathering of about\u2014how\u2019s my maths?\u2014nine or 10 clauses which relate to, essentially, administrative functions of operationalising the regime in other statues?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u002218a77acdc6e34b538f8f7d47bc7d8091\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218a77acdc6e34b538f8f7d47bc7d8091\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, that member is correct. This is just about technical tidy-ups and ensuring that the legislation fits within different areas of law and that they will all speak with each other. It is very much just the technical side, and, as I mentioned in the previous call, one of them is a tidy-up from an error made under the previous Government when they accidentally repealed something that they should not have repealed, and, as I mentioned, we\u2019re taking the first opportunity in the three-strikes regime to fix that and to reinstate it. When we\u2019re looking at the Criminal Procedure (Mentally Impaired Persons) Act and the Sentencing Act, we need to make sure that they all align with each other to enforce this legislation once it goes through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022869de3e9893b458a94519dab747bd574\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022869de3e9893b458a94519dab747bd574\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: On the basis of the conversation that we\u2019ve just had\u2014and I\u2019ve been listening to this debate in terms of Part 1 since 10 p.m. last night; so, effectively, four hours\u2014I\u2019m finding that there is a bit of repetition creeping in, and so I want it to be very precise and very administrative on the calls that we\u2019re going to have from here on in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u00228151282e583e4139ab795d7acca4d401\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228151282e583e4139ab795d7acca4d401\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. This is my first call on Part 2, and I\u2019m going to just continue with the line of questioning that\u2019s already been asked about the amendments to the Criminal Procedure (Mentally Impaired Persons) Act, because I\u2019m still not 100 percent clear on that. I\u2019m quite happy to do short, sharp questions as long as I can get some clarification. It\u2019s a genuine question to clarify where we are at in the differentiation between what is a first strike, a second strike, and a third strike, and who is still able to have orders even though they may be alongside sentencing\u2014the difference between people who have forensic needs and mental health issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe amendment to section 34 of the Criminal Procedure (Mentally Impaired Persons) Act 2003\u2014the Associate Minister of Justice has just said, in her first response to this question, that therefore no orders will be available. On the second response to the question, she said orders will still be available alongside sentencing, but it clearly says that \u201CNo order may be made under subsection (1)(b) in respect of an offender who is convicted of a stage-2 offence, or a stage-3 offence,\u201D. I have taken that to say, and I may be wrong, that if someone on their first strike is eligible, for lack of a better word, for an order to be sent somewhere different\u2014essentially, to a forensic facility because of an impairment, almost certainly an Axis I disorder\u2014if they\u2019re on their second strike or their third strike, that same pathway isn\u2019t available to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003ESo, (a) is that correct, and (b), if it is, what is the rationale behind that? Is it because, on a first strike, someone has presumably served over 13 months; therefore, any mental health condition severe enough to require a section 34 would already have been uncovered? I\u2019m just unclear as to why stage-2 and stage-3 are not included. If the Minister could answer that\u2014I have some other questions\u2014that would be good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022 data-id=\u0022239b08203d0041fc824d17997fe9a9bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022239b08203d0041fc824d17997fe9a9bb\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226f779df5cc604a2e97b2b683cabe399a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00226a89dc12158d48c18fe3b649f667946a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a89dc12158d48c18fe3b649f667946a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 14 replacing paragraph (b) and inserting a new paragraph (c) of subclause (4) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002287378c1ae13142d7949b4882f859b75c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb18038f651d4ab78d4ea4403b579bae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb18038f651d4ab78d4ea4403b579bae\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to subclause (6) of clause 16 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ffb3ec246c9c48158dac877d72cd4760\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0e2af04983b4dd3b0b67c762a218d81\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0e2af04983b4dd3b0b67c762a218d81\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to delete clauses 20 to 22 is out of order as being contrary to the objects and principles of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b8a3dbd1c5a84079a95a25c57b8fbc4b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aa64ae4421824745ae7b2f57244128a2\u0022\u003ESchedule 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8aea74e304f46ddbbf226fb47a671dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8aea74e304f46ddbbf226fb47a671dd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: To the votes on Schedule 1, the question is that the Minister\u2019s amendment to Schedule 1 set out on Amendment Paper 237 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002254a7cad682cd45fea41d2ebc1b1f1954\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002218122850f7eb4122b1dcb5f897f7e324\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218122850f7eb4122b1dcb5f897f7e324\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to delete clause 19 of Schedule 1 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s remaining tabled amendments to Schedule 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022255e1557c5a0483fa50bd8ad618de459\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022af9cac81b2ea44e6b0dd7fe58a1f4e93\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 1 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fa5ff021159c401d93a58f5f0c8a933f\u0022\u003ESchedule 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc161a7d27bd4316a913e8f740b49bcd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc161a7d27bd4316a913e8f740b49bcd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendments to Schedule 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022557fc0f2b46b497cbf0fb89c2c960e6c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002233b9f8f0239846318ed1c798daf933f7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225ceab2cbb6d44a6793d0ab18793e4ab5\u0022\u003ESchedule 2A\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022818a06f3e3114b52baf4f26e048ce58c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 2A be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 2A agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f624f056bb9a489da70f53e0f0006a69\u0022\u003ESchedule 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224c11c5649fb54fa78faac32babd600e7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E A party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d54335cbde30426ea9dac64a505ca47c\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00226853b9b5fac14574a8ca659e7280edbe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226853b9b5fac14574a8ca659e7280edbe\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to our final debate. This is the debate on clauses 1 and 2, \u201CTitle\u201D and \u201CCommencement\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 to insert \u201Cwith retrospective effect\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227076bc1ecc0940c89a555090dde4796a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed84e201e184410e805e2a738a89904c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed84e201e184410e805e2a738a89904c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 2 is ruled out of order as referring to an indeterminate event and not providing sufficient certainty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that Mariameno Kapa-Kingi\u2019s tabled amendment to replace clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226764e2002ffd4821818a4382b960656a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002290b5d84714d749ef84f2ea92ee2d2c1f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd8a6f23ade244a496b72bd7298e1455\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd8a6f23ade244a496b72bd7298e1455\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to insert clause 2A be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f57caa185856476aa7098095fcb0c347\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000237\u0022\u003EBill to be reported with amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000238\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c42d4f2a85b546e09fce733c935fde7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c42d4f2a85b546e09fce733c935fde7d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, the committee has considered the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill and reports it with amendment. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00225917c7131ed14baa9bcc65b0316296bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225917c7131ed14baa9bcc65b0316296bc\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill is set down for third reading immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ed42553eb75d4b4ca80310b57651f731\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd87dc23dac3405e860428a30a407766\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd87dc23dac3405e860428a30a407766\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill. I move, That the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI\u2019m very pleased that this bill has reached its final stage in this House, and I would like to particularly acknowledge the work done by the Justice Committee. This bill gives effect to the Government\u2019s commitment to bring back the three-strikes sentencing law. The three-strikes regime is a key component of the work this Government is delivering to restore law and order. Keeping repeat serious offenders off the streets also supports the Government\u2019s commitment to 20,000 fewer victims of violent crime by 2029. We are proud to be sending a clear message to offenders that there will be significant consequences for repeat offending. For too long, not enough priority has been given to reducing the harm to victims and communities that results from violent offending. This bill is one of the steps the Government is taking towards changing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ETo quickly recap, the bill reinstates a three-stage sentencing regime so that offenders face increasingly tougher penalties when they continue to commit serious crimes. In general, offenders will be warned of the consequences of reoffending at their first strike, and will not be eligible for parole at their second strike. For a third strike, offenders will have to serve the maximum penalty for the offence, without parole.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EOffenders will be subject to the regime if they commit a qualifying offence and receive a qualifying sentence. The threshold is above 12 months\u2019 imprisonment for their first strike, and above 24 months\u2019 imprisonment for their second and third strikes. We have also added the new strangulation and suffocation offence to the list of serious violent and sexual qualifying offences covered by the previous regime, increasing that list to 42\u00A0offences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWe have actively listened to New Zealanders impacted by serious crime, and responded to their calls for a tougher response. This is why we have lowered the first-strike threshold and reactivated warnings from the previous regime that meet the strike thresholds. More broadly, the bill makes modifications compared to the previous regime to support the new regime\u2019s workability. These include imposing appropriately lengthy non-parole periods for people who commit murder of 17 years at second strike and 20 years at third strike.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ll be providing some judicial discretion to avoid manifestly unjust outcomes, and address outlier cases; setting out principles and guidance to help the court\u2019s application of the\u00A0new law; and allowing a limited benefit for guilty pleas to avoid retraumatising victims and to reduce court delays. We\u2019ll be providing for when pardons are granted, and addressing the use of mental health orders under the Criminal Procedure (Mentally Impaired Persons) Act 2003.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe Government is pleased to be reinstating a three-strikes regime that is workable and will endure. Serious repeat offenders will soon be facing the necessary consequences for their actions. I believe this new regime will enhance public confidence that law and order is being restored. ACT campaigned to see three strikes reinstated, and this formed part of the coalition agreement. The Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill will help make our communities and victims feel safe again, as they are entitled to and as ACT promised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ELastly, we have provided for a six-month implementation period before the regime commences. This will allow sufficient time to make necessary operational changes. The Government is committed to the regime working as intended from day one. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00222f10143765984bf98b1a7c70e4fd0bce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f10143765984bf98b1a7c70e4fd0bce\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E This bill is an example of the determination of this Government to pander to a small section of the community, which it seeks to nourish its hateful approaches to law and order. The evidence is clear that this bill\u2014and the Ministry of Justice\u2019s regulatory impact statement gave very clear advice that the better\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226aac83a5ce5444b886b02eab178a97c9\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Cheer up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e2ea36dc8e847f0a7b7baf942411530\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Well, someone says, \u201CCheer up.\u201D It\u2019s a sad day for justice when we\u2019ve got a bill which cuts across constitutional principle, intentionally imposes disproportionate sentences, doesn\u2019t have the effect of reducing the number of victims, and, in fact, if anything, it will have the likely effect of increasing crime in our communities in the long term, and, as I was saying, the regulatory impact statement says it won\u2019t have any good effect but it will detrimentally affect many families, including families of M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThen, we had many submissions\u2014and we did have many form submissions organised by the Sensible Sentencing Trust and by email campaign by the ACT Party, which, essentially, said, \u201CGo harder.\u201D, which is what the Associate Minister of Justice has done against all advice. But the submissions that you would expect to look to, like the Children\u2019s Commissioner, the New Zealand Bar Association, the Law Society, the Pacific Lawyers Association, the Human Rights Commission, Te Hunga R\u014Dia M\u0101ori o Aotearoa\u2014the M\u0101ori Law Society\u2014and the Law Association all opposed the bill. How many civil society groups like that and Crown entities supported the bill? None\u2014none. But we\u2019re pressing on anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EOf course, I was astounded when I heard Paul Goldsmith talk about this bill as \u201Cintentionally disproportionate\u201D. What that makes it is an intentional breach of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, which actually provides that everyone has the right not to be subject to disproportionately severe treatment or punishment. Yet that Government over there has actually said\u2014the words came out of the Minister\u2019s mouth\u2014that it is intentionally disproportionate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EFor the Minister in charge of this bill, the Hon Nicole McKee, to suggest it is not retrospective is some kind of gymnastics. There are people today who are on no strikes and, once this bill is assented to, will be on two strikes. They will be sentenced, if they commit an offence, to a more serious regime than was previously the case, because of things that happened in the past. You don\u2019t get more retrospective than that. It is, in fact, the current intention of the Government to breach a fundamental principle of our criminal law, which is that when you change it, you change it for future conduct, not in respect of past conduct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aae759d3229b423ca3e62402cd090f8a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Change it for the good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258feec54cbc44448818382f370ceaec9\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: I can hear the banal comments from the other side of the House, but I actually think the rule of law is important. I agree that we need a criminal justice system and I know that we will have prisons and that the community requires punishment, but we\u2019re not in some police State where there\u2019s no rational relationship between the offending and the punishment, but that\u2019s what this bill does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EOf course, those people who, tomorrow, will be on two strikes or one strike, when they wake up, they won\u2019t know the change, and even though the whole idea of this bill is to deter people because people ought to know that they\u2019ll be in for more serious punishment if they\u2019re on strike one or two\u2014well, that\u2019s simply not the case, because nobody\u2019s told them and nobody intends to tell them. Do you know why no one intends to tell them? It\u2019s because it\u2019s too complicated, because this is an entirely different regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESomeone has to sit there and take this confusing template and run it over every previous strike to see whether it complies. I think I heard the Minister say there was something like 700 first-strikers out there\u2014that\u2019s 700 criminal records that someone\u2014this is an actual person that has to go through manually to check whether the sentencing meets the new strike regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve had the Ministry of Justice in, and they accept their systems are outdated and creaking. They\u2019ve got a project in place, which is five years away from completion, to upgrade their computer systems to be effective. The likelihood of this actually working is very low, indeed. Then, we\u2019ve got the ridiculous situation where a person on a first strike will get a second\u00A0first-strike notice when they commit another offence imprisonable by between 12 and 24 months. It\u2019s the confusing situation where you\u2019re on two strikes but it\u2019s only one strike.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI was disappointed that the Associate Minister of Justice batted away all of the suggestions in a quite derisory manner. Those last exchanges which were in Part 2 were some of the greatest concern, and the Minister, although she stood up and said no to Amendment Papers, there were two really significant points that were raised\u2014and I want to put on the record that it appears that there\u2019s at least one situation when a person convicted of murder, who commits an offence, will retrospectively have their ability to have parole removed, and they will be in prison without parole, for life, because they committed another strikable offence. That was put directly to the Minister, the Minister was given advice by her officials on it, and she didn\u2019t answer it. Now, that\u2019s a real problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThen we had the disturbing proposition that people with critical mental health issues, severe mental health issues, if they are in prison on a second or third strike, cannot be referred to the appropriate treatment under the compulsory mental health treatment Act. That\u2019s actually a community safety issue, because these people, in almost all cases, will get out eventually, and they\u2019ll get out without having had one of the critical drivers of their offending treated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIf this bill was simply window dressing and it was signalling that they\u2019re tough on crime but it didn\u2019t have these very serious community harm effects, I could let it go, right? It would be like a silly piece of legislation, but I\u2019d let it go and think, \u201CWell, that\u2019s what the National Party does when its ACT Party coalition partner tells it to.\u201D But it\u2019s not; it\u2019s actually a vile piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI know the other side doesn\u2019t really care about human rights, but it does cut across human rights, and it\u2019s worse than that again. If it had the effect that they said, that might, in some sense, go some way to explaining why you\u2019re doing it, but all of the evidence has piled up. A mountain of evidence tells us that this bill will have worse criminal justice outcomes. I\u2019m not just talking about offenders; I\u2019m talking about victims, I\u2019m talking about future victims, for people who are incarcerated for periods of time unnecessarily and put in prison without the ability to get parole\u2014to have no incentive whatsoever to engage in a corrective process, to undertake rehabilitative programmes. They will give the middle finger to the system. There is absolutely no reason for them, because they\u2019re in for eight years and whatever they do it\u2019s going to be eight years, and at year eight, they\u2019ll walk out the door.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWe heard from Corrections that the prisoner most likely to reoffend is actually the prisoner who has served an entire sentence without parole, because there is no softening of the transition into the community\u2014no arrangements, no work done to prepare them for that. The bill is vile. It takes us backwards. It\u2019s an abhorrent contravention of our human rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00224ab7478a924545baa71310d94aae7d2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ab7478a924545baa71310d94aae7d2a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00223d4eb715fa614181ab2135cbf64f1eee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d4eb715fa614181ab2135cbf64f1eee\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I want to start off by summarising some of the conversations that we had during the committee stage. I think the first thing that we\u2019ve noticed with this bill is that there has been no conclusive evidence that the previous three-strikes regime worked. This is not an evidence-based piece of law. This is part of a contract. It is a key performance indicator that is being ticked off at the expense of everyone in Aotearoa New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EWhen we were looking at this bill between the select committee stage and the second reading, there were substantial changes to this bill. The Associate Minister of Justice, the Hon Nicole McKee, said that it was because she was listening to the people of New Zealand, but who are these people she is referring to, when we see those who are most affected, when we see the legal experts, saying something otherwise?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4688d4e608c4e80aa0443a568cb6e07\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: The victims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cce35356e914403f8fb3173ddbb4e162\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: I will come back to the victims\u2014thank you. Crown Law\u2019s advice on this in some ways said that it would be an improvement, based on the original bill, but as we see, post - select committee, a number of areas have been introduced, including lowering the threshold for a first offence from 24 months to 12 months so more people can get their first warning and their first strike. That was not Crown Law\u2019s advice, nor was it Crown Law\u2019s advice to have a retrospective element.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EWhen we asked the Minister what advice she had received since the amendments to this bill, she said it was privileged. Now, a New Zealand Bill of Rights Act report is not privileged, but we have not seen a New Zealand Bill of Rights Act report on the updated element, including the retrospectivity of this bill, according to the Ministry of Justice\u2019s own website. This is deeply concerning, because we have seen, under the previous law, that it violates section 9 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, and with the introduction of retrospectivity, it violates section 26 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. Yes, we do need to have consequences\u2014I agree. Yes, we do need to ensure that we put victims at the focus, but is the Government willing to do that by violating one of the fundamental documents of this country, which is the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act? Apparently, they don\u2019t care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EIf we\u2019re looking at some other elements of the committee stage, it was also the most peculiar thing that we have seen in this committee stage all together, where the Minister attempted to shut down some of the discussion by reading out every single person\u2019s tabled amendment and saying that she would not support it, as a way of not engaging with the genuine debate, as is intended in the committee stage. There are some genuine concerns in here, as we have addressed during the committee stage. We have not addressed the fact, and no one was able to answer the fact, of whether the increase that we are seeing in crimes today is a direct result and has direct correlation with the three-strikes regime from last time. That topic was not explored during this debate, and that, I think, deserves further attention and further research.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EWe have seen the fact that there will be no parole for people who are on a second or third warning, and that is something introduced in here. What is that going to do for the rehabilitation effort? Now, the Minister talked a lot about rehabilitation during the committee stage. Let\u2019s look at it from a behavioural psychology perspective. If you know that you have no chance of leaving, why would you bother? Why would anyone bother if you\u2019re not going to be able to get out anyway? There\u2019s no opportunity for parole. What\u2019s the point\u2014what is the point? These laws then fundamentally challenge and perpetuate the harmful practice that we\u2019re seeing in our justice system right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, we know\u2014we know\u2014that there are going to be more people, more M\u0101ori, more Pasifika who are going to be harmed by this particular piece of legislation. We are going to be seeing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221fa56d49f7548a1a1760d6a74a2c4a1\u0022\u003ELaura McClure\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019ve also the most victims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7eef633ff4b48068d99d0b2b2afffc2\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: I will be coming to the victim point, thank you. Now, when we are looking at this piece of legislation, it says nothing about restorative justice. It says nothing about rehabilitation. It is a kneejerk reaction, and we have heard that from some of the submitters as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EYes, we do need to put victims at the centre of this, but this is not what this bill does. This bill has one job, which is to further entrench the discrimination that we\u2019re seeing in Aotearoa and to further take a punitive approach to our justice system. Punitive justice is only one form of justice. There are other ways of justice\u2014restorative justice, for example. Will the victims actually get any support from people being further in jail? We\u2019re putting in more and more money. We\u2019re costing more and more money, having more and more prison beds in order to address the increase that is going to be caused as a result of this bill. We\u2019re going to see an increase in the prison population. That does not help the victims. It does not help the victims of Aotearoa. It does not help the victims of crime that is committed in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EWhen we are looking at this particular bill, what is a victim-centred approach? Restorative justice is a centred approach. Prevention is a centred approach. I like the fact that the Government members continuously talk about victims, but why do we need to have victims in the first place? We asked that of the submitters. In order for this bill to be triggered, there needs to be crime committed in the first place. There needs to be victims in the first place. Why are we doing that? Why are we taking the ambulance-at-the-bottom-of-the-cliff approach? Why can\u2019t we envisage an Aotearoa where we don\u2019t actually have victims? This is the thing: I like the fact that the Government parties talk about victims\u2014they are important\u2014but it is even more important if we mitigate crime in the first place. It is important for us to ensure that people are supported in terms of mental health. It is important that we are lifting people out of poverty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EIt is to ensure that we do take a Te Tiriti approach when we are looking at this, particularly when it comes to the disproportionate number of M\u0101ori who are affected both as offenders and as victims. That can only be achieved if we take a Te Tiriti - centric approach, because what is good for M\u0101ori is good for everyone. I\u2019m saying that as a tangata Tiriti. It is important that we have sufficient housing. It is important that we allow children to be lifted out of poverty\u2014that we have a world-class education system where our tamariki and our rangatahi can dream in the first place. You talk to any child and no one will say, \u201CDo you know what, what I really want to do is have three strikes. That\u2019s what my life goal is.\u201D No child will say that. They are a circumstance of the system and the society that we have put them in, and we can change that. We can change that, but not through this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThis bill will achieve nothing but spending more money on an approach that is the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. It will put more money and more resources away from things that truly matter, from a preventative perspective into a punitive approach. And, fundamentally, I would say that everyone in this House agrees that we need to take that preventative approach first. This bill does not do that. What this bill does is it kicks the problem down the road. It is kicking the bucket down the road for future generations to deal with because we can\u2019t be bothered dealing with some of the harder issues right now. So, with that, the Green Party will not support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u0022caff9ae8138d4e27aceda5cda4dcd6ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022caff9ae8138d4e27aceda5cda4dcd6ad\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Look, we support the bill on this side of the House. I want to acknowledge the passionate contribution from Dr Xu-Nan. I think he\u2019ll be spending a bit more time with the Justice Committee, and I\u2019m glad for that, because he is a passionate, intelligent, and, I think, well-intended member of Parliament, but he\u2019s got this one wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of problems with his contribution. First of all, Dr Xu-Nan says this will lead to more prison beds. Well, if it\u2019s a choice between more prison beds and fewer deathbeds, then we\u2019ll take fewer deathbeds any day of the week. Dr Xu-Nan raised points around the\u00A0fact that this does little around restorative justice and rehabilitation and prevention. Of course\u2014because this bill is intensely focused on deterrence and detention. That is the part, the legitimate part, of our criminal justice system, the fundamental part of the criminal justice system, which the public supports, that this bill addresses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EIf the members wanted to support restorative justice programmes, they would have voted for the Budget, which funds those programmes. If they wanted to support rehabilitation, they would have voted for the Budget and the Corrections Act, which introduced rehabilitation for prisoners on remand. If they wanted to support preventative action, they would have voted for the Budget, which established the Social Investment Agency, and endorsed their Government\u2019s social wellbeing approach. They are the things that are going to meet the drivers of crime and prevent these crimes from happening well into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EWe support this bill in the House. We supported it through second reading, all through the very good committee stage, we\u2019ll continue to support it, and I look forward to seeing its passage in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022 data-id=\u0022914bf20f2f3e4772ad30a44b5fa5f788\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022914bf20f2f3e4772ad30a44b5fa5f788\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Associate Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to pause for a few moments, just to reflect on the history of the journey of the conversation about victims. I think, in the early 2000s, there was a quietly spoken, very passionate gentleman\u2014Garth McVicar\u2014who for the first time in my recollection started to talk about victims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EHe formed the Sensible Sentencing Trust and he fought and he advocated in a quiet and methodical way to highlight how skewed our justice system had got because we had lost sight of the victim. We saw, time and time again, lives ended and lives destroyed by offenders that had committed heinous and horrible crimes and came out to do it again, and in his quiet and methodical way, he worked and he advocated, and eventually we saw the original three-strikes legislation come into law. People in this House talk about its effect and its impact and how the repealing made such a significant change to the rights of offenders, and yet we saw in the last six years the increase in violent crime, and they stand in this House and say that reinstating it is not the path we should take.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EThe member Cameron Brewer brought some logic into this debate when he recognised that we look at the numbers. We get told so much about not looking at the facts and \u201CWhere\u2019s your evidence?\u201D He reported the account of the time when it was repealed\u2014that we had 13,400 convicted on first strike, 744 on second strike, and 26 on third strike. Then, again they argue, no, it wasn\u2019t working. The point is it took the previous member from the Green Party, Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan, nearly five minutes to actually start mentioning victims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edd9b9c59d7f44ecbf7f4992aee215f7\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Because it\u2019s not part of the bill. We speak on the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228881ae0ceeb347e7854fb2038dabcfc4\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: And we\u2019re speaking on the bill because the purpose of the punitive justice system is to actually prevent them making more victims. That is the purpose of legislation that looks at this specific aspect of how we deal with serious recidivous offenders who continue to make more carnage and more victims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EThe upside is the fact that, in this Government, we know that this isn\u2019t the solution to reducing crime on its own. We know that there is investment in education that is essential and prioritised. We know that we have to break the cycle of people being trapped on welfare dependency and give them the dignity and honour of a career and a job and allowing them to achieve their potential. This is one component that says, \u201CIf you do not want to go to jail for a long time, then stop committing crime.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c11ec77213014ed39dc8cfcfa45d7bd3\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: Really? How about you achieve the Ministry of Justice\u2019s outcomes of lowering M\u0101ori overincarceration? How about you focus on that one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4950c45cf11426aa7bbb99f92a865d1\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and we can talk about M\u0101ori, because I love that narrative. I love the amount of victims that are being created over and over again\u201460 percent of them are M\u0101ori, and we need to stand up and say that we will stop them being made victims. We will empower and we will respect them because\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298375123fd2045d3afbb55d625b9b0a0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I am going to ask members to not have a conversation across the Chamber. You can have it out in the hallway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da2b0310d6d14c79931f4de62a543da9\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: I will return to the point of this legislation. We know that it has worked. We question whether there should be minimum thresholds at all\u2014that will be told through the passage of time. The point is that this is about making sure that those who commit these heinous crimes\u2014and we have to remember the level of seriousness of the offences they are committing; the harm that is caused. When you have looked in the eyes of the rape victim, when you have cleaned up the homicide scene, when you have seen the harm that is caused, and you tell them that this is a person that has already committed this several times before, that\u2019s why you know that sometimes punitive is exactly what we need to prevent the creation of further victims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EThat is why New Zealand First will support this bill. We are glad that it is being made back into law, and we look forward to the impact on reducing the number of victims that we have to look in the eye in New Zealand. Thank you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022d26e4c85d985468783fa0c9d18ff0cca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d26e4c85d985468783fa0c9d18ff0cca\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koutou. Kei te P\u012Bka, e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EKa t\u012Bmata aku k\u014Drero ki te whakamihi i ng\u0101 rangatahi o Te Aho Matua. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou i roto i Te Wiki H\u0101. Nau mai ki te k\u016Baretanga o t\u0113nei Whare. Ko r\u0101tou kei te whai mai i te ia o Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, me t\u0113nei Whare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you all. Mr Speaker, greetings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EI will begin my speech with an acknowledgment of the youth of Te Aho Matua. Greetings to you during Te Wiki H\u0101. Welcome to the ignorance of this House. Those who are following the trend of the M\u0101ori Party, and this House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve got a speech here, but I think I\u2019m just going to\u2014sorry, Himi, I\u2019m not going to follow it. Let me start with victims\u2014\u201COh, but M\u0101ori are over-represented as victims.\u201D This bit of legislation, as described by every single legal association in the country, is utter rubbish, but those members don\u2019t like evidence, they don\u2019t like legal opinion, and they haven\u2019t got any ideas of their own. All they know how to do is rally up old white people\u2019s votes. Good on you, Cameron Brewer; good on you fullas all in the Justice Committee. I know you were there listening to all of this the whole year, but you come back into the House and tell us how it\u2019s such a great idea: \u201CM\u0101ori are over-represented as victims.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EDo you know what M\u0101ori are victims of? M\u0101ori are victims of a deeply long-lasting racist justice system dispensed by the police, dispensed by the Department of Corrections. M\u0101ori are worth billions of dollars in jail, and you\u2019re happy to line up the ducks so that M\u0101ori can continue to be delivered to jail at a rate that is astoundingly high and astoundingly consistent. Now, that\u2019s a champion blow for colonisation but it is an indictment on the quality, the values, and the deep, deep belief of this House in its own justice. That\u2019s what it is\u2014it\u2019s an indictment on the lot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EIn 1986, Moana Jackson began the first of three deep investigations into the New Zealand justice system. His first one was called He Whaipaanga Hou. In 1986, he discovered that there were an alarming amount of indicators that showed that racism exists not only in the system but in the structure and in the attitudes of the people who run that place\u2014all of it: Justice, Police, Corrections. Unsurprisingly, it delivers the indigenous population from point of interaction with the justice system to being locked up at a rate of about five to seven times faster than anyone else for the same set of circumstances, and you\u2019re going to sit here and tell me that M\u0101ori are over-victimised? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori are the victims of the justice system, and it has been that way, clear as a bell, evidenced for over 140 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203079750c406456b95374740c8c9f424\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Personal responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d46159159d044638b4b01a469ac5bd43\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CPersonal responsibility\u201D, he says. The fulla who knows nothing about the history of it\u2014nothing. Take your personal responsibility and apply it to your job as an MP producing societal settings that provide a future for the 30 percent of this country\u2019s workforce that are young M\u0101ori. You wouldn\u2019t know that, \u0101e \u201CWanganui\u201D? You wouldn\u2019t know that\u2014it\u2019s above your pay grade. Shocker!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EKa pai, kia kaha koe, kia kaha koe. Hoki atu ki roto o Whanganui, wh\u0101ngai ai i \u0113nei k\u014Drero ki a Aotea, ka tere te kupu whakah\u0113 i a koe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EEngari hoki mai ki t\u0113nei Whare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E[OK, keep it up, give it heaps. Go back to Whanganui and feed these comments to Aotea, words of opposition to you will come quickly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EBut let\u2019s come back to this House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd5a819be1e24b68b706817638c8eeb7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Hoki mai. Kaua e k\u014Drero ki a ia. Kaua e k\u014Drero ki a r\u0101tou.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E[Don\u2019t talk to him. Don\u2019t talk to them.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238d3d33ce1d54e528b9b2e6a88c0080f\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai. Here we are, dealing with an age-old problem that has a list of evidence and data, numbers and statistics that would blow your mind, and we\u2019re still doing things like keeping up with laws that have been proven in the last, like, only three, four, five years to be utter failures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7ec83c5be914e40a1bc4d32323342bd\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Ooh! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276e208a5ef6e466497a935abb9766741\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u201COoh\u2014ooh, ooh!\u201D, they say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022613d914e374b4c11999eb600fd742983\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Someone\u2019s angry\u2014someone\u2019s angry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224427cfebb4d947459f524657ca281cb1\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yeah\u2014yeah, yeah, because I can count and read, and that side of the House, obviously, can\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EWell, here you go: te Wiki H\u0101\u2014that\u2019s where I\u2019ve been this week. It was a hui of about 1,800 young rangatahi. They\u2019ve all been through Te Aho Matua. They all know exactly who they are and how to move forward, and they will be the voices that will arrive to this House in the future, with all of their mates, M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101, who actually don\u2019t believe in any of the rubbish you\u2019re peddling. Do you know why? Because they can read and count, too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EObviously, you fullas can\u2019t, so here\u2019s a little bit of advice for you: He Whaipaanga Hou\u2014someone write that down so that he can go and read it later. You could go and see Puao-te-Ata-tu before that, or any of the other two reports that Moana Jackson produced over 36 years, and that\u2019ll give you a helping hand. We do not support the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u00229c35c39cf0af4bb7a085bf587035ae2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c35c39cf0af4bb7a085bf587035ae2e\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s one thing to stand up and say that we all want everybody to be safe, and the other one is to weaponise the experiences of victims to reintroduce policies that are not based on evidence, that actually do a disservice to the very same victims of crime, and that will entrench inequities in Aotearoa that many have warned us about. This Government, once again, doesn\u2019t care for the evidence, the facts, or the experiences of people. We saw it yesterday when they introduced benefit sanctions that are completely just vibes-based, not grounded in evidence, and with the reintroduction of three strikes today\u2014it\u2019s, frankly, shameful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI know this as somebody who\u2019s been a victim of crime. I recount how in 2018, in Christmas season, I had people come into my house\u2014literally while I was sitting in my room\u2014and take away my belongings, while they were armed. Like, I don\u2019t want to hear people weaponise the experience of people who have been victims of crime to push through a bill that will do literally nothing. I recall when I talked to my wh\u0101nau in Mexico about my experience that happened on that week and whether incarcerating those people would have made me safer. I think about the fact that, actually, the interventions that need\u00A0to happen are far more complex and take far more political bravery than a bunch of empty discourse that is not based on evidence, from people across the House, in relationship to crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThe Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill will literally simply entrench inequities, criminalise the poor, and will not do the things that researchers, the victims, and, actually, people who been through the carceral system have told us actually helped with rehabilitation. If this Government was so serious about supporting some of the communities that are most at risk from violence, they would not be defunding our public housing sector. If this Government was serious about supporting the communities who have been most at risk from violent crime, they would be committed to actually ending homelessness. If they were actually serious about supporting the victims of assaults, for example, and addressing the criminalisation of ill mental health, they would be resourcing our health system to ensure that everybody stays well. That is absolutely not happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI heard people talk about deterrence, but let me tell you what, we\u2019ve seen how in countries where they have some of the most punitive measures, in relationship to crime, you actually have some of the worst crime statistics, because they haven\u2019t done the hard work to invest in the things that actually prevent crime in the first place. This is why, if you go down the slippery slope of putting these policies in place, you actually don\u2019t end up addressing the drivers of crime and you end up just paying lip-service to the people who have experienced violence throughout their lifetime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s honestly disingenuous from members across the House to talk about victims when the evidence that supports this bill tells us, time and time again, that this is not what this bill will do; that, if anything, this bill will result in a larger prison population, in a prison system that has not been shown to rehabilitate people, that has been shown to actually entrench cycles of violence and cycles of poverty. This Government is turning their back on the evidence and turning their back on the lived experience of those who have gone through the carceral system, simply to pay lip-service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EAgain, look, let\u2019s talk to the people in the community. They themselves have spoken in recent polls about whether they feel any safer with the Government\u2019s recent policies\u2014or even rhetoric\u2014and, actually, most people have said they don\u2019t feel any change. If I think about the people who many of us on this side of the House actually organised with\u2014formerly incarcerated people, people on low incomes\u2014we know from their own experiences that, actually, we need to do the hard mahi to actually have housing for all, a good health system that stops criminalising disabled people who are often in distress, who actually need a range of really complex interventions that require funding. What they do not need is empty lip-service from members of Parliament who clearly do not know what they are doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s actually quite a scary thing to have the chair of the Justice Committee completely ignore the evidence, completely ignore the research of this bill. Like, how shameful is it to have somebody chairing the select committee in charge of this bill who actually doesn\u2019t give a crap about the evidence, who actually just decides to throw it away and not care because it\u2019s easier to pay lip-service to a bill that will not actually make people safer. Just because they will feel it, doesn\u2019t mean it will happen on the ground. I think what we need is a change of Government, one that is willing to ensure that there\u2019s the resources to do the complex interventions to keep people safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb9dfa440e5848bfaaf00caa3992a124\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb9dfa440e5848bfaaf00caa3992a124\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired. Before I take the next call, can I remind members that interjections should be rare and infrequent. Also, if you want to have a conversation, there are plenty of places around the Parliament for you all to have a conversation\u2014and acknowledging the high emotion in the room and the importance for all of you to be able to have your say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4bb7fd9a6294a64a6ec29d5d03d2b3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4bb7fd9a6294a64a6ec29d5d03d2b3e\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E What another great day for law and order in this country, and what another great day for democracy, something that this Government campaigned hard on since 2022: the reinstatement of three strikes. Won\u2019t the public be happy today, because that\u2019s why they backed us. They backed us to get on top\u00A0of law and order. They backed us to get on top of the economy, and they\u2019re seeing some great results. They\u2019re seeing ram raids down 60\u00A0percent. They\u2019re seeing foot patrols up 30\u00A0percent. They\u2019re seeing serious assaults down 3 percent and aggravated robberies down 11 percent too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EThe package is coming\u2014the package is coming. It\u2019s being delivered. What we saw under the last Government was crime just tracking up, tracking up, tracking up. They repealed this legislation and we just saw serious assaults and the likes of sexual offences continue to increase. This is a great day for law and order. This is a great day for the victims of New Zealand. I commend this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00226827c064c4c2402fb0fc5e5eb75f9d81\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226827c064c4c2402fb0fc5e5eb75f9d81\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call in the third reading of this bill. If this Government was actually serious about reducing the number of victims in New Zealand, they wouldn\u2019t pass this legislation, but they\u2019re letting things like evidence get in the way of their arguments. It\u2019s important that we do point out the evidence and we do understand where the ball has been dropped on this one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis Government has made it incredibly clear throughout this debate that they\u2019re not interested in evidence. They\u2019re not interested in the regulatory impact statement developed by the Ministry of Justice, they\u2019re not interested in international research, and they\u2019re not interested in the mistakes made in New Zealand\u2019s history. They want to blindly power on with their slogans and bumper stickers that make them feel good so they can go out and tell everybody they feel safe in their beds, but the reality is it does the actual opposite of what they\u2019re proclaiming it will do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis bill first passed back in 2010. It was an ACT coalition deal back then, and I was working in New Zealand Police getting ready for the changes to the system when this new three-strikes legislation was going to be put into place. I was involved in identifying which of those offences would be classified as a strikable offence and getting into practice how we would implement this in courtrooms and how it would be rolled out for police throughout New Zealand. There were some significant problems in the roll-out. The first time this legislation was implemented in New Zealand, it resulted in people not receiving a strike who should have been receiving a strike. It resulted in confusion in courtrooms, and there were multiple instances of data that was not being used between police, corrections, courts, and the justice system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe questions we have continually asked of the Minister throughout this process still have not allayed those concerns that those considerations have been taken into place as we put this bill back into action, and we will watch and wait to see how many instances there are when there is confusion as a result of the changes put through from this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard from the Minister in the committee stage that, because the threshold in this reinstatement has been, I think, lowered from the previous one, there\u2019s going to have to be an exercise where somebody goes and figures out whether they\u2019re up for a first or a second strike compared to the previous regime. I have no idea, as an official who worked to implement that, how the person is going to identify who those people are, where they live, how they\u2019re notified, and how the records within the courtroom can record that accurately in order to show that we have justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe point is that those people on the other side of the House, they don\u2019t even care. They don\u2019t care how it\u2019s implemented or whether it\u2019s fair; they just like to talk about the fact that it\u2019s tough. That\u2019s the only point here, and that is concerning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI spoke on this bill when it was repealed in 2022, and the points made then are the same points now. Deterrence doesn\u2019t work. It disproportionately impacts upon M\u0101ori and further entrenches inequalities within our justice system and our society. It creates more victims by increasing offending and continuing that cycle of reoffending. It\u2019s not interested in addressing the underlying drivers of crime; it is simply a bumper sticker that makes them look tough but achieves nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI look forward to the third stage of this, which will be repealing this bill in 2026, and I look forward to being able to do that and introduce a justice system that works for victims, that actually delivers outcomes for New Zealand\u2019s justice system, and that\u2019s not just a bunch of cowboys looking tough. What it demonstrates is that this is a Government with no new ideas\u2014no new ideas. They\u2019ve dialled the microwave up to reheat and chucked it back in there and put it on full. The only answer they have in the law and order space is to take old ideas, reheat them, and try and make it look like something new when, quite frankly, it doesn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe regulatory impact statement gives really good information, so full credit to those officials who took the time to actually read and understand what the legislation does. The main point in terms of what deterrence does or the threat of having a greater sentence\u2014all\u00A0the research shows that it does not work for serious violent offending. Where it does work is white-collar offences such as fraud and tax violations. I\u2019m sure there are a few members who might know in that space that maybe it\u2019ll be more effective for deterring those for white-collar crime, for tax evasions. Those are the areas where deterrence as a theory works, because the threat of punishment alone does not have an impact on someone committing a crime. It does not. The reality is it is done on impulse and it is often done sometimes under the influence of drugs or alcohol.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ELet me be clear: no way should our society tolerate serious criminal acts. Serious violent criminal acts do need to be punished, but we have a system that does not want to make more offenders and to further entrench offending and to increase victimisations, and that\u2019s exactly what reinstating this three-strikes system does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIn the Ministry of Justice\u2019s 2018 evidence brief, it recorded crime rates for the three most serious offences\u2014sexual assault, serious assault, and also robbery\u2014from 1996 to 2014. What that research showed, based on the trends in recorded crime rates, it was concluded that there was quite simply no impact of the previous three-strikes regime on reducing serious offending, even though the Government claims it did and it did again, the research from New Zealand is that the last time this regime was put into New Zealand, there is simply no research to demonstrate that it had an impact on serious violent offending. We\u2019ll watch those numbers again as it comes in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe second main point is that it stops the judiciary from doing their job. Under three strikes, judges must sentence offenders to the maximum sentence on those final strikes. It is an anomaly in New Zealand law because it severely limits judicial discretion at sentencing by requiring judges to do that. It ignores the reality of what our justice system currently provides judges being able to do, which is preventative detention for repeat serious offenders, public protection and extended supervision orders, minimum periods of imprisonment, and maximum penalties, up to life imprisonment. All those opportunities for sentencing currently lie with justice, and what this bill does is it says, \u201CThe executive knows better than judges and we\u2019re going to implement that.\u201D It is simply taking away from the courts what they know how to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe final point I\u2019ll make\u2014and it is a point that\u2019s been made very well across all parties in the Opposition\u2014is that M\u0101ori have been disproportionately represented in the past in the three-strikes regime and that will continue again. I think the hardest figure for me personally was those who received a third strike under the previous regime, 81 percent of those were M\u0101ori who received a third strike. M\u0101ori are significantly overrepresented in the group in this area, and this Government knows that and does not care. If we are serious about getting on top of repeat victimisations and repeat offending, we would not be reintroducing a system that has such negative outcomes for M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIt is important to note what does work. We know that Te Pae Oranga M\u0101ori justice panels reduce reoffending, intervening early on and addressing the root causes of crime, and having justice that takes place on the marae setting gets people early, understands why they\u2019re offending, and takes them out of the justice system. The 24 Te Pae Oranga panels funded under the previous Government are working. That is how you get on top of victimisation. That is how you get on top of reoffending. It is not kneejerk reactions like trying to be tough with a three-strikes bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to conclude by saying that usually we see National and ACT actually making a reasoned argument, looking at data, looking at outcomes, but when it comes to this space, they stray and they go to the push button of fear, of scaring the public and trying to look tough because they like to garner votes in that area. The people that lose at the end of the day are those people who are stuck in our justice system, who don\u2019t have access to mental health support, who don\u2019t have access to alcohol and drug treatment facilities, and who don\u2019t have opportunities to turn their lives around. Instead, they are further entrenched in a system that is disregarding of their rights, disregarding of their culture, and, quite frankly, a system that keeps New Zealand in the dark ages. I do not commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022 data-id=\u00221f2e2e4f7c0946ef8cf88ceb91b74a68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f2e2e4f7c0946ef8cf88ceb91b74a68\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E I too rise to add my thoughts here on the third\u00A0reading of the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill, a bill that I wholeheartedly support. We\u2019ve heard a lot of conversations from the other side of the House about an apparent lack of evidence. The evidence that I\u2019m interested in\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267dbcf800cee4902aafc5fcfcd8a8da3\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s plenty of evidence, Rima.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a460d984c864985b23cd3c7965cf013\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014is not the evidence of elitist academics in their little\u2014oh, it\u2019s wonderful to see Mr T\u0101kuta back from holiday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EWe haven\u2019t seen him on the Justice Committee for quite some months, after he got upset that I challenged a submitter. It\u2019s wonderful to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1f8400ff134478ea1f4c0ebbd271442\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I would like you to focus on the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c16eb91009a84e50ae6273836d1a1784\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE\u003C/span\u003E: Welcome back from your holiday. The evidence I\u2019m interested in is the evidence of the store owner in Takanini that has had to build a cage inside his store for him and his family to serve customers from because of repeat serious offenders. The evidence I\u2019m interested in is Uday in Wattle Downs, who was bashed all over his body when he was trying to open his store in the morning, by repeat serious offenders. That\u2019s the evidence I\u2019m interested in, not elitist academics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EGuess what! The qualifying sentences that we\u2019re adding in, they\u2019re not jaywalking, they\u2019re not graffiti; it\u2019s things like aggravated burglary, robbery, and causing grievous bodily harm with intent to rob. That\u2019s what we\u2019re doing. That\u2019s the evidence that we\u2019re basing our laws on, and we commend this bill to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee234d74f17244ed97681548f33dc1be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee234d74f17244ed97681548f33dc1be\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, for an opportunity to take a short call on this bill. This three-strikes bill that was introduced under a previous Government, then repealed, is pretty unique in New Zealand. It prevents judges from considering the unique circumstances and evidence around the offending. That is something which does not exist in any other sort of offending. These are laws which we see have been introduced at different times and repealed at different times in the jurisdictions around the world that we like to compare ourselves to. I\u2019ll come back to that, about the evidence basis, because not only do we have New Zealand evidence but we also have international evidence about how these laws work to incentivise and disincentivise different behaviour, which ultimately impacts on the rights of victims to be able to work these things through the court systems in a way which is fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI\u2019d just like to begin my comments by saying that this law is not needed. This is not something that impacts on any of the people we are trying, in this debate, to help. The courts already have the equivalent sentencing provisions and options for serious offending. The limits on parole right through to the more serious life imprisonment without any parole conditions is something that judges can already impact on offenders. When we think about those victims who the member who has resumed her seat speaks about, we also have to consider that those are the offenders which are being considered right now by judges with exactly the kind of discretion that she is advocating for, that they will receive serious sentences, and that serious offending is treated seriously by those\u00A0judges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThe three-strikes provisions that we\u2019re seeing being introduced now have actually also been shown to have a disproportionate effect on sentences. There\u2019s little to show that the law as it existed previously had any deterrence or preventative impact on serious offending. As my colleague the Hon Ginny Andersen has said, where deterrence is most effective is in white-collar crime, but in this kind of offending, it was shown over and over again by New Zealand researchers\u2014not the elite, but the people who care about the system and have studied it because they want to show the evidence and how it impacts on real, ordinary people. They have found over and over again that it isn\u2019t changing serious offenders\u2019 behaviour or patterns of offending in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWhat it does show, though, is that that disproportionate impact is excessive on those rights that are protected by the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. The New Zealand Bill of Rights Act is important, because it lets everyone in New Zealand understand exactly what their minimum level of human rights is, and it should be protected and it should not be impinged upon by Parliament\u2019s process of lawmaking. Ordinary people are being told here that in these situations where there is a political call for harsher punishments, their rights that they understand are protected will not be protected by this Government, and that\u2019s a shame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWe have to do everything we can in this Parliament to recognise the rights of victims. It\u2019s really important, and considering the impacts on exactly those people that Rima Nakhle has spoken about is our job. We have to create laws which actually work for them and actually deter offending against them. What\u2019s important to acknowledge here is that three strikes never did that. It does not achieve safety for victims in the way that Government MPs are talking about it, and the international evidence shows that, so let me talk about that. The research clearly shows that laws with a deterrence effect can discourage offenders, but what they discourage offenders from is pleading guilty. You see over and over again in jurisdictions who have tried this that offenders who know they will be on a strike or a second strike or a third strike will do everything and anything they can to avoid pleading guilty, to avoid admissions, to avoid presenting evidence which casts them in a light.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdffb5d47e344e6fa04997270e71b3c5\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: Maybe they should avoid the crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220586fe6e10dd4fa6a27c36beacb4969c\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that means, Mr McCallum, that victims are dragged into a court system which does not serve them. They are dragged over and over again into a situation where they are presenting more and more evidence where, if this law that is being passed today did not exist, they would not be back into the system over and over again. This actively impacts on many victims who will be in a system where they do not belong and they could have avoided.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI want to thank everyone who made a submission on this bill, but I also want to acknowledge that the way that the Minister treated the submissions from the Sensible Sentencing Trust meant that there was a second bite at Cabinet for the retrospectivity provisions, which meant that most submitters were not able to submit on that very important part of the law and were locked out of that process. The evidence is clear. This bill doesn\u2019t help. It\u2019s bad law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa79188b51b54e0ebb6c742467c1f6ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa79188b51b54e0ebb6c742467c1f6ce\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Restoring three strikes forms part of the National Party\u2019s and this Government\u2019s suite of actions that confirm our commitment to restore law and order in New Zealand. All reasonable minds in New Zealand would agree that law and order has deteriorated greatly over the past six years, especially the past three. This situation is turning, but more needs to be done\u2014this legislation being one. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u00226b741fb214134ab0b27ae265cbdc47a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b741fb214134ab0b27ae265cbdc47a8\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, and thank you for the opportunity to take a call on the third reading of this hideous bill. We\u2019ve heard from several contributors today who have quite rightly focused on victims, and that is always at the heart of any discussion, let alone any lawmaking, in so far as that is always what should be top of mind. I don\u2019t think that anybody on this side of the House would ever deny that the whole purpose of reducing crime is to reduce the impacts on people who suffer from crime. Of course, that is exactly what we should be talking about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe difference that we have before us, though, is: how is the best way to go about doing that? We can choose a way that sounds good on the surface, that makes us feel better about having done something, that makes us feel as if we\u2019ve resolved an issue or solved a problem, and then we can move on with the rest of our life, because, let\u2019s face it, the people sitting in this House aren\u2019t typically those that are the victims of crime. We can avail ourselves and remove that dissonance and that dread that we might feel of our responsibilities by just doing something, or we can actually buckle down and inform ourselves and look at evidence and look at overseas examples, look at previous New Zealand examples, look at the New Zealand context, look at the huge amount of information that we have available to us at our fingertips, should we want to actually be better lawmakers and we should do that part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House, clearly we favour the latter. To hear members on the other side\u2014and one in particular\u2014describe it as elitism and academic in the same sentence, I found quite appalling and a move towards a popularism that we see overseas that we know only ends in one direction. That is a watering down of confidence, a watering down of the faith and the hope that people in this country should have in our institutions and should most definitely have in this place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EAs I said, if we were serious about doing something, then we wouldn\u2019t be doing this. That is not the same as saying that serious offenders should not be treated seriously. People who are recidivist, serious offenders do need to be dealt with so that society can feel safe, so that we can reduce crime, so that we can have fewer victims, and so that people can have faith in the criminal law and order space that we\u2019re in charge of, but it\u2019s incumbent on this Government, as I said, to do the things that actually work. As we\u2019ve heard, this one doesn\u2019t. There are very few people that agree that three-strikes regimes anywhere in the world have been even remotely effective.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EHow do we actually measure effectiveness? We\u2019ve heard several people conflate and confuse and try and turn things into correlations and causations that simply don\u2019t make sense today and, actually, over the whole process of this bill. If it was as simple as simply introducing a three-strikes bill, then it would have been resolved already. We know it doesn\u2019t work. We know evidence from California in the US, for instance, has shown that, but the means by which we choose to measure it is by deterrence or by public confidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe regulatory impact statement from the Ministry of Justice\u2014the people that were actually charged with doing the work behind the scenes of advising the Minister, of advising the Government\u2014said that they weren\u2019t a fan of this; they would have preferred the status quo. They said explicitly throughout that regulatory impact statement that it wouldn\u2019t work. Why this Government has therefore been hell-bent on continuing to introduce a lame duck when they know that they don\u2019t have any evidence\u2014when we know that one of the Ministers literally said that we know that it worked, and then repeated and went on to just talk about anecdotes and a mishmash of information, concept, and some facts, but nothing that actually related or was provable in so far as working\u2014I find that really, really quite disconcerting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThroughout the process, we then had a couple of things that just seemed a bit bizarre. We had this whole confusion around the warnings, and that tended to occur in two parts. First, we had the record-keeping side of things, where the Minister said that there\u2019s, essentially, six months\u2019 time to prepare for readiness. We know that there have been big holes in the systems that we\u2019re expecting to do a lot of the heavy lifting here. We know that the courts system doesn\u2019t have the capacity to date, and they\u2019ve only got six months to get that capacity to make sure that all of the record-keeping\u2014which is kind of complicated in terms of who\u2019s got a strike, who hasn\u2019t got a strike, under what regime, under what changes between the two, under what part of the continuum does that information need to be recorded so that it\u2019s ready to be online when someone appears in court and can then be given that verbal warning. That doesn\u2019t fill me with a lot of hope that that is going to work properly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EPart of the impetus for this bill is about public confidence, so if we know that it doesn\u2019t improve public confidence in the law and order space\u2014three strikes in general\u2014and then we implement it and it kind of falls over at the first hurdle because we don\u2019t have the operational capacity to actually make it work, then the public surely will continue to lose confidence in it as well. That is on top of a courts system and a justice system that has had to face cuts\u20146.5 percent cuts\u2014and where those cuts were made tended to be in the back-office roles, tended to be in the IT spaces. There\u2019s been specific projects in the justice sector that have been canned because they needed to make up those cost savings. That is exactly the same space that we\u2019re now expecting to do all the heavy lifting here and make this operational.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWe also heard today through the committee of the whole House stage\u2014which was wholly unsatisfactory, where the Associate Minister of Justice, the Hon Nicole McKee, I felt, was belligerent, didn\u2019t choose to answer actual questions, clearly did not take seriously the amendments, some of which I think would have been welcome additions to the bill, and then didn\u2019t answer some questions, to the point where we\u2019re now at this stage at the third reading, straight after the committee of the whole House, because this is under urgency, and we haven\u2019t had the chance to sit back and evaluate the veracity of some of the answers that we received in the prior stage, particularly related to amended section 34 and the power of the court to commit offenders to a hospital or facility on conviction. What we heard, essentially, is that it limits the courts\u2019 discretion to apply treatment-focused orders for people on their second or third strike. That doesn\u2019t really sit right on this side of the House, and I think that we deserved a little bit more time and a little bit of a stronger and more robust process to see that through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party certainly does not support this bill. We think it\u2019s a terrible bill. Fundamentally, we know that there is no evidential foundation for the three-strikes regime in any way, shape, or form. It is literally taking us backwards\u2014figuratively and literally. As I said yesterday, it\u2019s the epitome of a bill that would do that. The regulatory impact statement backs that up. There\u2019s no information to suggest otherwise. The only people that seem to be supporting this bill are the Government members. They don\u2019t seem to be backed up by anybody other than the few people on the Sensible Sentencing Trust who emailed the Minister and, therefore, seemed to cause the Minister to have a last-minute change of heart. You could very clearly see that she was more concerned about being perceived as not going far enough than doing the right thing\u2014that she, at the last stages, interfered with the select committee process and made those changes that we\u2019ve heard about over the last couple of days. It was particularly offensive, I think, that the Minister did that or saw fit to do that, but also announced it publicly before the select committee had the opportunity to discuss those changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EAll in all, I think it\u2019s a dog\u2019s breakfast, I think the process has been rubbish, it won\u2019t work, and we will keep a close eye on it. We do not commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022 data-id=\u00229aed481c54f44a49bbb95ababfd5fb86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229aed481c54f44a49bbb95ababfd5fb86\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am the last speaker for this third reading of the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill, and I\u2019m pleased to stand on behalf of the Government, which clearly is supporting this bill. It is a bill we campaigned on as a party; it is also part of a coalition agreement with the ACT Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this bill is clearly to keep people safe primarily, as far as I\u2019m concerned, and there are certain elements of the previous speaker\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2547012737b43f49adf9ab592d7d7b2\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: So-called centre-right. Just lurching to the far right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207fe2baa8b3c453ab63562143fb1886a\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD\u003C/span\u003E: [Member pauses]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d0bba3555c04205bf641b6e1ba7872a\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: Nice pause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f205d8ed234e46cd9e1086eb63620b94\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. There are elements of Dr Tracey McLellan\u2019s speech that I did actually agree with, and that was primarily around the fact that this here is about serious crime that has been committed on a repeated basis, and keeping people safe. As it clearly states in the bill, there are 42 qualifying offences and these are the serious violent and serious sexual offences under the Crimes Act. This is not menial offences; this is the most serious stuff, particularly stuff that is against humans and against members of society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the work on behalf of the Associate Minister of Justice, the Hon Nicole McKee. I want to acknowledge the work by the select committee from around the House\u2014the Justice Committee, a very busy committee; it had 28 different bills it has worked on and a lot of work being done in that space there. Ladies and gentlemen, three strikes are back. I\u2019m happy to commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fceab705161f497ca3a06ff120141a1e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000381\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022a87baf4bda3a4842a118eb648e4af7da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a87baf4bda3a4842a118eb648e4af7da\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Assistant Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Chair. Thank you, Mr Chair. I was waiting for the end of the vote for that. There\u2019s a longstanding convention that voting is heard in silence. The reason for that is so that the Clerk can count the votes correctly. In this circumstance, we\u2019re in urgency on a Friday when we only have one Clerk. It is very important that votes continue to be heard in silence, Mr Chair, and I hope you enforce that next time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022ccc1dcfad7d546d9bd4b168589823b6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ccc1dcfad7d546d9bd4b168589823b6e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I take that point. It was quieter than usual for me, so if there was noise, I noticed it less, but thank you for that observation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022177b990a27ba42e097ec183b21464e20\u0022\u003ETherapeutic Products Act Repeal Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022217813f00e614c78a386e76c3af4596d\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022 data-id=\u0022563e497b165b4ad880d802f4207fcc97\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022563e497b165b4ad880d802f4207fcc97\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Therapeutic Products Act Repeal Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0c9ac3ec6ce442dadc02cbc720e1b65\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecbeb27da4e64a4eadf4ba2e052e0b3d\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Therapeutic Products Act Repeal Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EToday, the Government is delivering on its commitment to New Zealanders to repeal the Therapeutic Products Act (TPA). Repealing the TPA is about more than delivering on an election commitment, however; repealing the TPA means that the Government can continue its important work to prioritise timely access to quality health services. Repealing the TPA will also allow for better legislation to foster innovation within our healthcare system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EThe TPA was intended to modernise the current outdated regulatory framework for medicines, medical devices, and natural health products. However, industry practitioners and consumers told Parliament at the time, and then told us, that it didn\u2019t get the balance right. The TPA fell short of delivering simpler, more flexible regulation. The Government believes that health policy must ensure access to the right treatments at the right time, without imposing undue burdens on consumers or stifling innovation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EThe TPA would have introduced unnecessary cost and regulatory hurdles, particularly for low-risk products, and it failed to enhance healthcare equity or improve public access to critical medicines, devices, or natural health products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to thank the members of the Health Committee for their diligence in reviewing the Therapeutic Product Act Repeal Bill. I\u2019d like to extend my gratitude to the many submitters who wrote in to the committee during public hearings on the repeal bill. Industry leaders and health practitioners told us that the TPA risked obstructing the very innovations our health system needs. For instance, requiring New Zealand market authorisation for exported medical devices and natural health products, despite their compliance with international standards, would have discouraged exports. Fees and charges on natural health products would have made products less accessible here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003ERepealing the TPA addresses these concerns, ensuring that New Zealand\u2019s health policy is both practical and forward-thinking without sacrificing the quality or safety of care. Our approach to the health system emphasises the importance of reducing regulatory barriers, to encourage local innovation and to provide access to appropriate medicines and products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EThe repeal of the Therapeutic Products Act will not leave medicines unregulated. The Medicines Act 1981 will continue to apply, and the existing regulator, Medsafe, plays a vital role in ensuring medicines meet our standards for safety and effectiveness. However, the Medicines Act 1981 is out of date and does need to be replaced. While the TPA was not the solution, new legislation is required to allow New Zealanders to benefit from advancements in medical technologies without unnecessary bureaucratic delays.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI\u2019m pleased to announce the Government will repeal and replace the Medicines Act with a new Medical Products Bill. The bill will not only ensure timely access to medicines but also support our innovators, health practitioners, and patients. It will include provisions ensuring New Zealand\u2019s health system is resilient and able to respond to future health emergencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EA message that came through loud and clear in submissions on the repeal bill was that natural health products should not be regulated as medicines. I agree, and, on hearing public and industry concerns, in September this year, Cabinet also agreed that natural health products will be regulated under a stand-alone bill. This bill will be developed following engagement with the natural health products sector and the public. Work on a new natural health products bill will not commence until after engaging with stakeholders, and no decisions have been taken on the scope or approach to be adopted in the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EOn that note, one of the things the dietary supplements industry has been saying for a long time is that it needs export exemptions to be able to compete internationally. We want to address this long-term issue for New Zealand companies and make improvements to support our exporters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EThe Government plans a further change to the Therapeutic Products Act Repeal Bill in the committee stage, which will move Dietary Supplements Regulations 1985 from the long-repealed Food Act 1981 to the current Food Act 2014. This is a first step that will allow for exported products to apply for exemptions from New Zealand labelling and composition requirements so that they can better compete in international markets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EAs a Government, we have an ambitious goal of doubling exports in the next 10 years. Repealing the TPA now will allow better legislation to be developed that supports exporters and recognises New Zealand as a trading nation. The Therapeutic Products Act Repeal Bill delivers on our promise to New Zealanders to get rid of a law that would have created unnecessary barriers to access and innovation. Repealing the TPA also sets the stage for us to put in place a better law that gets the balance right. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022012c7418ea8a4c31881969ad718e26fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022012c7418ea8a4c31881969ad718e26fc\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u002299006fa50e514eeea7d7c020a5c84c4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299006fa50e514eeea7d7c020a5c84c4d\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Well, it was interesting to hear the remarks the Associate Minister of Health just read. They bear a lot of resemblance to the remarks I read when I introduced the Therapeutic Products Bill\u2014as it was in the last Parliament\u2014to the House. In many ways, it\u2019s apparent that the goals of the Government are the same as the goals of the last Government in pursuing medicines reform, so why are we repealing the Therapeutic Products Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EMany of the arguments the Minister just outlined are good arguments for amendment of the Therapeutic Products Act. Many of the objectives she stated are already incorporated within the Act. For example, I notice in some discussion on the Health Committee about novel precision medicine technologies like Chimeric Antigen Receptor T-cells all able to be regulated within the Therapeutic Products Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThe ability to deal with public health emergencies is a feature of the Therapeutic Products Act that is being repealed. The ability to properly regulate medical devices is also contained within that Act, and an approach to natural health products that need not mean that they are treated as equivalent to medicines\u2014of course they are not. The Therapeutic Products Act was always about risk-proportionate regulation, which the Minister also mentioned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EIt seems to me that this repeal is for political reasons, the management of stakeholders\u2019 expectations around how they interact with the legislation. Fine\u2014that happens in politics\u2014but the problem is that now we\u2019re back to 1981 and, if this repeal goes through, back to 1981 in terms of our medicines regulation, and that is wholly inadequate. What happens if there\u2019s a situation in the intervening period? Well, I know because, in the last Parliament, we had to deal with COVID-19 and we had a public health emergency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EA key element of dealing with COVID-19 was a vaccination programme and we had no way of expediting the approval of the COVID-19 vaccine under the Medicines Act. My first ever piece of legislation I saw through Parliament as a Minister was the retrospective amendment of the Medicines Act under urgency for one vaccine. It illustrates how absolutely useless the Medicines Act is for dealing with public health emergencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003ENow, you might think COVID isn\u2019t happening again, but, actually, we had another problem with the public health emergency in the Medicines Act later in the last term of Parliament, and that related to monkeypox. The monkeypox vaccine was not even able to be discussed publicly, really, under the Medicines Act, because of restrictions on advertising when, I think, section 25 of the Medicines Act is being used. The Medicines Act is a wholly unsuitable piece of legislation for the rapid approval of medicines like vaccines that are needed in public health emergencies. Yet the Government is taking us back to the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThe other problem with the Medicines Act is that it contains no framework for the regulation of medical devices. The challenge with medical devices is there are some that can cause an awful lot of harm, and that has been happening, sadly, in New Zealand within the context of our inadequate regulation. The most distressing situation we\u2019ve seen emerge publicly is the poor regulation of surgical mesh in New Zealand and the lack of framework that we had for preventing and dealing with that, and the response that has been ad hoc as a result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThe Therapeutic Products Act was intended to be able to make sure that those sorts of things don\u2019t happen again\u2014and it is not. There are chances of it happening again with medical devices. I am aware of certain implantable contraceptives that have had safety concerns raised about them as well, so we need a legislative framework to make sure that these devices are able to be safe. During this repeal, it is just another way in which the New Zealand public has to wait longer for this framework to be in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThe Government may well have a different view on components of medicines regulation, and there might be some areas where the Government and the Opposition disagree, but there is an awful lot of good that is being undone through this repeal, and it risks harm continuing. I\u2019ve outlined some of those harms as they relate to medical devices and vaccines. I just think that those are actually real risks, and I\u2019ve outlined three risks that emerged just in the last term of Parliament. It seems to me that this repeal leaves us without a framework, parts of a framework that we would agree on in many areas, and I think that is ultimately to the detriment of New Zealanders\u2014it imposes significant, significant risks to people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThe next area I want to touch on is some of the innovation that the Minister referenced that is already possible through the Therapeutic Products Act. That includes the changes to prescribing rights that enable wider classes of prescribers to be able to prescribe\u2014but, of course, within well-defined scopes. This enables us to make medicines more accessible\u2014still safely\u2014and make sure that when we are challenged in many ways by health workforce shortages, New Zealanders are able to go to a more diverse range of prescribers in order to access their medicines. This is already in the Act, and yet we\u2019re going backwards to get rid of that and then waiting for a period for the Government to come back with new proposals on all of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EI do want to reject the idea that by including natural health products, medical devices, new technologies, and medicines in the same Act, they were all regulated in the same way\u2014of course not. Of course the Act had separate criteria for all of them; of course they had separate processes. It may very well be that the Government disagrees on how those processes should be\u2014fine\u2014but why get rid of the Act altogether? It seems to me that it sends us backwards, and it means that there is just nothing in place except the old dunger of the Medicines Act 1981.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThis is not responsible lawmaking. We could have been spending this time debating the things the Government wants to change about the Act. I am aware the ACT Party has proposals about an expedited pathway for approvals of medicines. That seems like something Parliament should discuss because it alters how our regulator makes decisions, and that\u2019s an interesting proposal. Instead, we\u2019re going back to the beginning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003ENot only is it that the Medicines Act is from 1981 but, when I was Minister of Health, I worked with a team at the Ministry of Health who had been working on this issue\u2014I think some for 20 years. We have known we\u2019ve needed to replace the Medicines Act for 20 years, and we\u2019re just undoing all of the work that\u2019s been done\u2014back to the drawing board, new sets of instructions, separating everything out, throwing out the baby with the bathwater.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EIt is so unfortunate that this is the position that we are in. Not only is it an example of making a show of ripping up legislation so that you can go back to stakeholders and say, \u201CThat bill you had concerns about? It\u2019s all gone. We\u2019ll start afresh.\u201D, but those stakeholders, in many cases, have been consulted with for over a decade. This is a public policy failure that all parties have touched in some way, actually. It is just, I think, such a loss to New Zealanders, this piece of legislation that would have made significant advances and that large components of it everyone actually agrees on. My message to the Government is: you touched it last; you\u2019ve broken it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002253a63f9a57a94aa0a16b2ed45a699579\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253a63f9a57a94aa0a16b2ed45a699579\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the time has come for me to leave the Chair. The House will resume at 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 12.57 p.m. to 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00220b7d70eda8db4fcaa3fff74a36b7db1e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b7d70eda8db4fcaa3fff74a36b7db1e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Good afternoon, everyone. We\u2019re on the second reading of the Therapeutic Products Act Repeal Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022bbaf8a7261784520a78409637bc315a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bbaf8a7261784520a78409637bc315a3\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai, thank you. The Green Party is not supportive of this bill, which we have mentioned before and other speakers have mentioned before. The main issue that we take with this repeal is that it leaves a massive void. I think it\u2019s concerning to hear the Associate Minister of Health fall back on a 40-plus-year-old piece of legislation to justify the repeal. It\u2019s been really clear from patient safety advocates and, actually, even people who engage in the very same products, like natural remedies, that actually had a nuanced view on this bill, to see that we\u2019re just going to go back to the previous status quo that wasn\u2019t really serving people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWe have had patient safety advocates raise concerns around, for example, unregulated medical devices and the harm that those were causing in our community, some of those medical devices that Ayesha Verrall mentioned, like surgical mesh, having actually created a lot of issues for many people in our communities, and having other jurisdictions that have paused the use of surgical mesh to review its use should actually raise alarm bells here that we\u2019re kind of just leaving a void, repealing a piece of legislation and not actually addressing what I think were genuine concerns that we could\u2019ve worked through constructively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t want to pretend, as submitters noted, that this legislation was perfect. I mean, when we had the Therapeutic Products Bill at the time\u2014it had not become the Act\u2014being debated in the Chamber last term, we had concerns about the fact that a lot of the issues around things like rongo\u0101, etc., were being left to regulations and that, actually, a lot of the success in relationship to regulatory bodies relied on those regulatory bodies being adequately resourced to ensure that, actually, they were set up to succeed. Actually, when I mean \u201Cto succeed\u201D, I also mean to work collaboratively with communities directly impacted, with the entities that actually, for example, may sell some of those products that would\u2019ve been regulated under the Therapeutic Products Act, and to give those different bodies and groups the guarantee that their feedback was going to be taken on board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EAs others have noted, the Act that we\u2019re repealing with this bill covered, actually, quite a range of products, and each of them requires their own processes, their own regulations, their own mechanisms to keep people safe. Again, like the Medicines Act of 1981, it\u2019s just no longer fit for purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think, for me, what\u2019s going to be really critical to give, particularly when I think of patients, the guarantee that their concerns will be listened to will be what else will come after this repeal. I just want to make sure we don\u2019t leave a void. I think of many people who\u2019ve been calling for, as a response to this bill, for example, a commissioner that deals with issues around patient safety. Many who\u2019ve been calling for that argued that we probably needed that\u00A0no matter what we were doing in this space, but now that the Therapeutic Products Act\u00A0is\u00A0being repealed, it\u2019s needed more than ever. I think that should also be something that\u00A0the Government should look at as we progress through the repeal of the Therapeutic Products Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think the other area that I wanted to take note of is that the conversation around rongo\u0101 is something that should not end, because I think one of the challenges that we had last term when we started having questions about rongo\u0101, around how we could make sure that the Therapeutic Products Act met our Tiriti obligations, is that, actually, the Crown\u2014and, therefore, the Government\u2014takes active steps to make sure that we create a way in which we enable it and not restrict it, but, at the same time, that we also don\u2019t allow the potential harmful co-option of it by non-M\u0101ori in a space that actually could allow for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think that\u2019s a really difficult nuance to walk, and without active steps taken by the Government to protect rongo\u0101, we could end up having almost the worst of both worlds, which is, like, we don\u2019t have the kind of middle ground that we ended up in, which I think many of us were satisfied with, and I know that for at least Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori and the Greens at the time, that was one of the things that we needed to have resolved, I think, between the first and second reading, if I recall correctly. We do acknowledge the previous Minister, who worked really constructively on the ground to actually have changes made to the bill in time to have that addressed, but now if we\u2019re just going to a full repeal of the Therapeutic Products Act, we now do leave a complete void in that space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWhen I also think of the select committee process\u2014and I was actually quite taken aback by the quite short nature of the report of the Health Committee, because while the bill in front of us may be really, really short, the impact and the nature of what we are doing is actually on a much larger scale. If I reflect on the select committee report\u2014and submitters\u2019 voices have been really critical\u2014I do want to acknowledge that this is one of those bills where the range of contributions varied, and even if we put aside the fact that the majority of submitters did support a repeal, many of them actually acknowledge that the previous status quo would have not been good enough. I think that\u2019s something that the Government should take on board, because, once again, the Medicines Act 1981 is not going to be the answer. We need a much more comprehensive regulatory system to ensure that, actually, we have a good regime for medicines, for medical devices, for natural health products as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think I echo the comments from Ayesha Verrall that a much better answer would\u2019ve been to take on board the pieces that could have been changed, to put amendments to this Act rather than do a full repeal. For a Government that talks a lot about wasteful spending, I think this is one of those areas, as others have noted. We have had public servants do a lot of work and spend a lot of hours, actually\u2014over, in fact, decades, in some cases\u2014to think of alternatives to the Medicines Act 1981. I think that\u2019s work that cannot just go to waste now. If we have had, actually, public servants think of \u201CWhat are the alternatives to the Medicines Act 1981 that we could have?\u201D and then we just throw this in the bin, it\u2019s in some ways not honouring the mahi that has been done and the resources that have been put to create alternatives to the Medicines Act 1981.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThis is a field that does evolve quite rapidly and, therefore, I do think requires constant legislative attention. Therefore, I think, in a place where we are seeing, actually, a strangling of access to public resources for the purposes of research, for example\u2014I worry that we\u2019re going to end up with the worst of both worlds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThe other area that I\u2019m really concerned with, particularly around the status quo, is that we\u2019re going to be moving into a space where we\u2019re going to have a lot of unregulated medical devices at a time where our healthcare workforce is particularly constrained. I think that also creates, particularly, a really dangerous situation for patients. We have a health workforce that is really, really\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6765cc3e7234e899047d38fee6d271f\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s stretched.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4bf45c3567a4f30a65e257764046735\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014stretched\u2014thank you, Scott\u2014and a regulatory regime that is not sufficient. We could end up with more issues around patient safety on the ground happening that will be detrimental to our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ELook, I think this is quite a serious issue. Independent of where people want to put the blame on the state of our healthcare workforce, it is a reality that we do have people on the ground saying there is not enough protection for patient safety. The Therapeutic Products Act was a mechanism for that. It wasn\u2019t perfect, but we can\u2019t ignore the fact that right now we\u2019re heading towards a place where several medical devices will continue being unregulated, a healthcare workforce that is not being supported to do their best, and patients being left out in a really, really dangerous position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t think members of the Government should treat those concerns lightly, because they have been raised by patients themselves. In fact, patient safety advocacy groups have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201ff353819b343469ff3b2b39cb31bb0\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Add some value.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226faf4ec09e1d414fba06707b8b2d4308\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I think it\u2019s rich for the members who take 30-second calls to talk about adding value when, actually, often they do very little other than just say, \u201CI commend this bill to the House.\u201D In this case, I won\u2019t be commending this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf3615c4dfe0465e87b763454744946c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf3615c4dfe0465e87b763454744946c\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to take a short\u2014but I will take a call on this bill because it is important, the Therapeutic Products Act Repeal Bill. I want to thank the very diligent Health Committee, chaired by Mr Sam Uffindell, for their work on this and from other members across the House, including my good colleague Cameron Luxton.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EThe report is short, but I think it\u2019s very succinct in what it says\u2014224 submissions\u2014but the key bit is that the majority supported the repeal of the Therapeutic Products Act (TPA) and acknowledged that something needed to be updated, but they didn\u2019t consider that the Therapeutic Products Act was the right Act to repeal it. They also noted that excessive compliance costs, regulatory burdens, and the costs that would, in turn, be passed\u2014these costs will be passed on to consumers and the health system at large. I can also tell you there will be significant delays in getting new technologies to New Zealanders if we had gone ahead with the Therapeutic Products Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EI just want to clear up a couple of things. With the repeal of the TPA, we won\u2019t be unregulated. Medical devices and medicines will still continue to be regulated; it will just be under the old regime. It\u2019s also worth noting that the Therapeutic Products Act wasn\u2019t going to come into effect until 1\u00A0September 2026\u20142026. This wasn\u2019t in effect. There was plenty of time before it was going to be in effect, and it\u2019s also plenty of time for us to modernise New Zealand\u2019s regulatory settings. That will take the form\u2014and I think some speakers already talked about that\u2014of things like at 30-day approval for medicines, which is part of our coalition agreement. I look forward to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EI also just want to reflect that taking 20 years to update the regulations and the laws in this area is part of the problem. It shouldn\u2019t take that long. This is a very fast-moving area, and we actually need to do things much, much faster while still ensuring safety. I think that we can do that on this side of the House with what we\u2019re going to put in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EThen, finally, I just want to reflect on the Amendment Paper that the Minister has put on the table. This will be welcomed news to the natural product exporter sector. I\u2019ve engaged with them extensively. Again, on this side of the House, we want to double exports out of New Zealand, and, at the moment, we have these absurd regulations where New Zealand - made, say, vitamins and other natural health products have to meet New Zealand standards, not the standards of the country they\u2019re being exported to. Again, we look forward to, hopefully, being able to deliver some relief in that area. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022 data-id=\u00221b908e8363434b7a9549cf6a1b430cee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b908e8363434b7a9549cf6a1b430cee\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E The Therapeutic Products Act Repeal Bill is a simple bill. It\u2019s a repeal bill. The Therapeutic Products Act hasn\u2019t even commenced yet. The vast majority of the submissions were in favour of the repeal bill, and the Government is working to build an enduring piece of legislation. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00227c57f6c9c25243509b490ff000f07ce2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c57f6c9c25243509b490ff000f07ce2\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Five-minute call\u2014Francisco Hernandez. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022 data-id=\u002299dc24fccf1f46a493971f02fca7c6cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299dc24fccf1f46a493971f02fca7c6cb\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Thank you for allowing me to take a call on this bill. I don\u2019t have a health-related portfolio as one of my portfolios for the Green Party, so my speech will be more low-energy than, perhaps, members on the opposite benches are used to\u2014more low-energy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI think it is correct that some members opposite have stated that this bill repeals an Act that hasn\u2019t even come into effect yet, but I think it\u2019s still important to discuss what the bill would have potentially done, and also the gap that it leaves behind. I think the Therapeutics Products Act took 15 years of development across three different Governments. I take the points of my comrades in ACT on my left here: it shouldn\u2019t take decades to create these regulations, but it does create a framework to modernise medical regulation in New\u00A0Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s particularly important to actually acknowledge that now there is a huge number of medical treatments, advances, and devices that are available on the market. The Therapeutic Products Bill had the potential to create a regulatory framework around that, because we do need\u2014and I think this is one of the, I guess, great philosophical differences that separate the parties on the left and the parties on the right; I think it\u2019s the role of regulation in society. I think it would be fair to say\u2014and I think my colleagues opposite won\u2019t object to my characterising it this way\u2014in general, parties of the right believe in less regulation, and I think it would be fair to say that parties on the left\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022950f08f1af8a488dabccabc63a64dbe6\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: Liberty and freedom!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b40d5aae675248c1af962f2d0d3955a4\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ\u003C/span\u003E: Yes\u2014our libertarian friends and comrades across the House, yes. For the left, we generally do see the need for regulation. That\u2019s one of the big philosophical differences. [Interruption] Well, I mean, I think it\u2019s an exaggeration to call the repeal of the Therapeutics Products Act \u201CBig Brother\u201D, but anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003ELook, the main concern that we have is that the repeal of this legislation\u2014I acknowledge that the Minister and Government speakers have said that there will be a plan, but they haven\u2019t presented it as part of this proposal; this merely replaces it. We would like to see what actually does replace it. Also, the question is: who is going to be doing the work of coming up with the alternative proposals? It just seems like there\u2019s a huge amount of effort and energy that went into doing this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI shared the reflections that were made by my colleagues in Labour and by my colleague Riccardo Men\u00E9ndez March that it was imperfect legislation, and I think the submissions that were received during the select committee stage\u2014you know, we acknowledge that it was imperfect legislation. Surely it would be easier to do a review, or get rid of the key parts of it, rather than scrapping it and starting it again from scratch, because it just seems like we\u2019re creating a huge amount of effort to do this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003ELook, who\u2019s going to be doing this work? I think this morning there was a report on RNZ that said there were further cuts to Health New Zealand. Are we going to be pulling front-line health workers to be doing the work to replace this bill? Is the Ministry for Regulation going to be doing the work on this? I mean, who is going to be leading the actual work to replace this bill? If it does end up being the Ministry for Regulation that ends up creating the alternative legislation that replaces this\u2014I mean, we\u2019ve already shown that the Ministry for Regulation has the highest average and mean salaries out of the wider Public Service. Is it actually going to be replaced by people with the relevant health expertise from the Ministry of Health to the people at the Ministry for Regulation\u2014is it going to end up costing more money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI think I\u2019ve laid out the concerns that we\u2019ve got with this repeal, in that we\u2019re kind of just repealing things without a plan for replacing it, and we absolutely do need to make sure that we\u2019re protecting New Zealanders. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022 data-id=\u00220370e6ac1c3a483f80e41c4521096254\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220370e6ac1c3a483f80e41c4521096254\u0022\u003EDr HAMISH CAMPBELL (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support the Therapeutic Products Act Repeal Bill. It does exactly what the title says. Therefore, I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u0022961aeaffb9504ea1b00f523eb51d89bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022961aeaffb9504ea1b00f523eb51d89bb\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to spend a good 10 minutes, I should assume, talking about the repeal of the Therapeutic Products Act (TPA). I must express some consternation and some surprise that members opposite are not so enthusiastic about this. It\u2019s almost like they\u2019ve got no plan or they don\u2019t have anything in particular to say, because they don\u2019t know what the plan is to talk about. It\u2019s all very well to repeal things. It\u2019s all very well to say that you\u2019re going to scrap things and stop things and not do things, but it\u2019s a whole other kettle of fish when you\u2019ve actually got to say what you\u2019re going to do instead. Perhaps that\u2019s the reason for the brevity from the other side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003ERepealing this Act has been cited by the Minister as a means by which the Government can do something else. Of course, we don\u2019t know what that other thing will be. We\u2019re led to believe\u2014we\u2019re absolutely led to believe\u2014that the Government is going to be developing some better law that is going to get the balance right. They\u2019re all catchphrases we\u2019ve heard before, across a variety of bills and a variety of rhetoric, but the devil will be in the detail, won\u2019t it? If ever there was detail, it certainly is in the Therapeutic Products Act. It is in the Medicines Act. It is in all of the legislation that currently governs what is a really important part of our life. I can\u2019t wait to see what the Government is going to come up with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard several submitters mention the fact that this is a piece of work that really has been worked on over a number of years. I remember being on the Health Committee last term. It occupied a large amount of our time; it was a big piece of work under consideration. There was a huge amount of to and fro. There were many amendments. There were some things that, even in first draft, we thought, \u201COh, that\u2019s not going to work the way it was intended\u201D, and changes were made and loads of contributions were taken into account. It\u2019s not a simple thing to do, but it will be interesting to see where this Government lands, particularly because I don\u2019t think it would be unfair to say that the impetus for repealing this bill seems to be that New Zealand First, in particular, formed a bit of a pact with some people, a small minority of people, who were quite exercised and quite wrong in a lot of expression of some of their concerns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWe know that, during that process leading up to the election, these were issues that were ripe for weaponisation. These were issues that were seen as good organising structures by which to stir up a little bit of controversy and to stir up a little bit of much-needed support. It will be interesting to see, again, what this Government is able to come up with. I\u2019ve got a prediction: I think that they will, obviously, repeal the Therapeutic Products Act, they will work on an alternative, the alternative, as we know, will be split across a couple of different bills, and where we\u2019ll end up landing will be pretty much where we would have been all along. Again, 15 years of considered work by experts is unlikely to completely, radically change where we need to go, particularly because, when we think about what the rationale is behind those regulations and what the rationale is behind the legislation itself, it is to protect people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard from the Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall that the Medicines Act is particularly useless for dealing with the inevitabilities of public health emergencies\u2014the sorts of things that will happen and that will require rapid approval processes. We know that, without the TPA, there is no real framework that we should feel assured about and confident about when we are talking about medical devices. Things have moved on dramatically since 1981. There are medical devices that we talk about today in this context, that we talk about as incredibly normal\u2014not popular; that\u2019s the wrong word, but incredibly normal\u2014and incredibly commonplace that weren\u2019t even thought about in 1981. The impetus for needing and requiring a good piece of legislation is really, really important, and it\u2019s not something to take lightly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EMedicines and natural products are, I think, something that\u2019s also worth delineating\u2014those two concepts\u2014because, again, they were in the TPA, and I understand that the Government therefore has a preference, which is their prerogative, to parcel out medicines from natural health products. I can understand why they would want to do that. We went through that first process, where, sometimes, people perceive them to be synonymous, and, therefore, they overlook the fact that the risk-proportionate elements within the TPA were there in stark, stark reference to the way that both of those products should be treated. Again, it\u2019ll be interesting to see how the Government acts with that in mind, remembering, of course, that the natural health product industry isn\u2019t a single body. It\u2019s not a homogeneous set of people who all think the same way about regulation and all have a very clear idea of what needs to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThere are, in fact, at least two quite different concerns at play. We have our exporters who produce top quality, world-leading products, and they want to be able to make therapeutic claims where therapeutic claims exist. Without the TPA, they weren\u2019t allowed to do that, which restricted their ability on the export market. Then we have the other side of the natural health product industry, where they shouldn\u2019t make therapeutic claims where therapeutic claims don\u2019t exist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EActually, consumers and people purchasing products deserve safety. There needs to be some prevention\u2014for instance, I think one of the examples in the original process was caffeine enemas for curing cancer. We know that\u2019s not real. There is plenty of evidence to show that that\u2019s not real. Sometimes, consumers can be beguiled by therapeutic claims, and if, as a Parliament, we don\u2019t have provision for those protections, it\u2019s not only not preventing people from being sucked in and parting with their money for products that don\u2019t have sufficient efficacy but there can be real health harms and real harms to people, not only by taking something that\u2019s not what they should be taking, because it may interfere with existing medication regimes, but by then preventing them from seeking traditional and efficacious proper medical solutions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EIt is a complicated area that we are embarking on, and I do sincerely wish the Government all the best of luck. As has been said earlier, they are literally throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I hope common sense prevails behind the scenes and behind the need to have that external bravado to those fringe groups that deals have been made with, and that behind the scenes the Government and the officials are able to impress upon their Government the need to actually look at the body of evidence that exists and not start all over again, because\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221898effbbdd1462fa3ff046af349903f\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I think we had a comment there from the member saying something to the effect that this legislation was done as part of making deals with side groups. That\u2019s, effectively, an allegation that part of the arrangement for this bill is that there has been some deal-making process in the background between one of the members of this Government and those groups that the member was referring to. I think that such a comment there was out of order, and I\u2019d ask for you to consider that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ee2da940b2d4865a12105ebdfb67c0b\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, I listened very carefully to Dr McLellan\u2019s comments and the inference was around deals, not an implication that the Government had\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221241bd03601d463f85e59e5164ecf8a4\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: In silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a35e6d8d608e4202a5d4a27d93f65543\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014an implication that there was some wrongdoing. It\u2019s certainly in order for a member to indicate that deals may be done in any form. Where it sort of heads down the wrong path is when there\u2019s an implication that there is a deal for something in return. That is not what Dr McLellan has alluded to in her contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8f30c388e0a403686b4ac1dac7d6090\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Those in the House last night will have heard a point of order on one word in particular, around \u201Cpressure\u201D. As I said last night, it\u2019s in the context of what happened. Also, if you go to 55/5 of the Speakers\u2019 Rulings, it also talks about differentiating between what happens in the House and what happens outside, and particularly before the election. If the implication is that something was decided as a policy before the election, then that is actually permitted. It\u2019s when it\u2019s an influence that takes place within the House once the party is here. My understanding is that it was part of a policy coming into the election, so that would be the implication there. The member can carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287380ab98fe34bb083a3726b2026b92c\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker, and certainly that was my intention: to highlight the fact that the Government parties did campaign on repealing the Therapeutic Products Act, and they campaigned on repealing the Therapeutic Products Act because they, as they\u2019re entitled to, are able to listen to certain parts of their constituencies who have particular policies in mind that they wish their representatives to champion. That is exactly what this Government is now doing. As I said, in the context of my comments, I now wish them luck.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EI now wish them all the very best, and I mean that sincerely, for actually taking a wider view, not just the very narrow view that they may have been exposed to before the election, when they devised their policy, but now they\u2019ve got the opportunity to actually look under the hood, take advantage of all of the resource and all of the official resource that they\u2019re now entitled to as members of the Government, and are able to furnish us with a new piece of legislation, in the not too distant future, that can allay our concerns about the void that is now going to be left by virtue of the repeal of the Therapeutic Products Act. We do not commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3aa24db88524b239f36795c9aa77cee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3aa24db88524b239f36795c9aa77cee\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E When almost every single health professional tells us that the Therapeutic Products Act is not fit for purpose, repealing the Act is the right thing to do. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u0022378bd97cc9e84a7196b283be33cf8e76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022378bd97cc9e84a7196b283be33cf8e76\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Gee, I don\u2019t know where to start with my five-minute contribution. There is so much to cover. It\u2019ll be the full five minutes, for your pleasure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI might just start by pointing out that this is one of the thinnest departmental disclosure statements I have picked up. It is one of the briefest. If I just point out: \u201CWere any regulatory impact statements provided to inform the policy decisions that led to this [repeal] bill?\u201D No. \u201CHas there been any external consultation on the policy to be given effect [to] by this bill, or on a draft of this bill?\u201D No. Right then, so this is all just what everybody campaigned on and brought to the House and agreed in their coalition agreements, and what we have is the Government, once again, just simply cutting and repealing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EThat seems to be all that they really know how to do, because I have not heard, from the eight-second contributions on the other side, what the actual plan is. I mean, it\u2019s just so easy to talk to yourselves, agree amongst yourselves, not get any advice, not do any consultation, and then all agree it\u2019s a wonderful idea to repeal this because it is politically popular, but did anybody take a minute to consider that the political decision you are making is putting at risk patient safety?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af56dae758f9426cb57b2dcf87500cb8\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e10f8740c6d49d8b9e1200ec11e1091\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME\u003C/span\u003E: No, that\u2019s right\u2014no, you didn\u2019t. That\u2019s right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297fc81b308c6492ab07e9ee8d57912ad\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not what\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5bd52a4c8a8456383265d0e20ae0b84\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME\u003C/span\u003E: Right. Sorry, that\u2019s not what\u2014what says? Oh, you didn\u2019t make a contribution? I couldn\u2019t possibly understand what your reasoning is, because everybody only speaks for eight to 10 seconds on the other side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EThis bill is taking us backwards\u2014so far back, about 40 years back. The other side of the House doesn\u2019t believe that there is any need or reason to modernise the law. You are repealing something that takes us back to the Medicines Act 1981. Where is your plan? No plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022934fb7f8532643af89a028e86459cf56\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: Come on, stop mischaracterising it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c03f140f03f14c5298a0c82fa3654eeb\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, well, please tell us what it is if I\u2019m wrong, because nobody has made a contribution to elaborate on that. By repealing this Act, the Government has not brought forward an alternative. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI want to just highlight one issue that this repeal impacts, and I encourage you all to not just simply say \u201CYes\u201D. Why did you not want to have advice on this? Why did you not want to do wider consultation on this? If you had done that, you would have learnt that, for example, \u201CPatient safety advocate [is] horrified at [the] government\u2019s plans to drop Therapeutic Products Act\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI am a former Associate Minister of Health, and I was responsible for righting the harm that has been done\u2014wait for it\u2014by surgical mesh. Anybody thought about that? Anybody know the history of that? Everybody comfortable with the fact that your repeal, without a plan, will expose more people to harm. You OK with that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235212180029f42a8a5f5f620020fd25e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Just less first person. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236774d4f1a7d4f9e9edf4a0ce0f37976\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right; not you, Mr Speaker\u2014them. Is that side of the House OK knowing that the Government has no plan in place after this repeal to address the very serious issues of harm that has been caused by mesh not being regulated?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b238c07f2b54b86aa2ea146709a1e3a\u0022\u003EHon Casey Costello\u003C/span\u003E: Those controls are still in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022672dc28c4e2943798380180629242f0e\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME\u003C/span\u003E: They weren\u2019t sufficient, and that\u2019s why the advocates have been pushing for this and support this. Fifteen years of work has gone into it and you\u2014sorry, the Government\u2014are just throwing it out the door with no plan to replace it. You are leaving people exposed to harm. I do not commend this bill to the House, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u002255f98ec24b664bb8872ecc1ffa726bc7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255f98ec24b664bb8872ecc1ffa726bc7\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022538681157e0d4f4d842860f2dc63b4cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022538681157e0d4f4d842860f2dc63b4cb\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you, Mr Speaker. Isn\u2019t it interesting that Vanessa Weenink, the member who has just resumed her speech\u2014her seat, had nothing to say about it. Actually, she probably resumed her speech, as well. That was it\u2014started and resumed all in one breath.  This is a terrible piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed4e5c283ac14024b0270b5d1f9e1b04\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s why we\u2019re getting rid of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022661f722c40b4446fb87087c4dde23a54\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no\u2014not the one that\u2019s in place. The one that, actually, you guys have put up here\u2014that\u2019s the terrible one that\u2019s on the cards today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis was something that was in its tentative stages, actually, with the Health Committee when I was a member on it in the last Parliament, before Dr McLellan took over as chair of the committee. The existing piece of legislation indicates that there is already stuff in the Act that is provided for\u2014yes, there\u2019s a runway, and we\u2019ll talk about that in a moment\u2014but\u00A0the reality is this: the Government could have simply taken time to work through these issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWhy is it that we are here under urgency wishing to rush through the repeal of an Act that actually doesn\u2019t come into play until late 2026? Why is it that the clocks still say that it\u2019s Tuesday here in this place, at a time when this Government want to ram a piece of legislation through all its remaining stages in order to tick a few boxes? Really, it\u2019s quite simple: it\u2019s because they have to, as a collective, prove to their backers that this is a signal that they\u2019re doing what has been asked of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s all it\u2019s about\u2014nothing about the aspects of the existing piece of legislation that actually would make a difference, and my colleague the Hon Willow-Jean Prime has touched on just one. That\u2019s surgical mesh, and, actually, that reminds me about the number of constituents that have spoken to me\u2014and I\u2019m sure members in the House and members opposite will have had constituents or others that have spoken to them over their time in Parliament\u2014about the impacts that this has had on not just them but their wh\u0101nau and the way in which they go about their lives. Not a single member of the Government has taken a call to address how this piece of legislation will provide certainty of protection for those for whom that is a real issue. Not a single call has been made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWe question why it is that we\u2019re in urgency and we\u2019re having to rush through this piece of legislation when the protection that exists for women who have that as a real issue, and something that is extremely time-sensitive, as well\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4041ba2f9c249d89bc9282486479cdd\u0022\u003EDr Hamish Campbell\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re not rushing it through; it\u2019s been to select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259f7d100e13d4ff4b68989830a8863a9\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s that, Dr Campbell? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d09def88ccaa46adba276db62ba7f201\u0022\u003EDr Hamish Campbell\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s been through the select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8f4af74874a45a6a239a3d81a3153a2\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, OK. Why didn\u2019t you talk about that? You\u2019re the deputy chair of that committee and you\u2019ve said, basically, nothing, except that you commend this bill to the House. The second reading is the chance where this House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce0939b6480c48e4b4161d84d60ade8e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Through the Chair, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225aef6c02fbcc4a76aa1a0c8b81e0f748\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: The second reading is the chance where, generally, members who are part of that committee can explain why it is that they\u2019ve landed at this position. What I find rather disappointing is that the chair and the deputy chair of the Health Committee have taken calls, but they have not delved into the specifics around that. While Dr Campbell might say, \u201CIt\u2019s in the report.\u201D, well, point out where\u2014where in the report does it indicate that this continues to protect women when it comes to issues around surgical mesh? It does not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWe would hope that when we get to the committee stage, there will be plenty of questions. I commend the Government on its former bill in terms of the committee stage, when we did actually hear from members opposite about some of the issues. I hope that they will take the opportunity to share some of the concerns, and also some of the opportunities that they have addressed as part of that, because, otherwise, members of the public who are listening and those who are watching are none the wiser as to why it is that this Government doesn\u2019t want to maintain protections for those individuals in our community for whom surgical mesh is a real issue. That\u2019s disappointing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that is going to really turn back the clock\u2014it really is. I mean, we\u2019re talking about returning to a piece of legislation that\u2019s from 1981. So much has changed since 1981. When we think of the aspects of innovation and technology, and all of those sorts of things, and when we align that alongside medicine, medical devices, and opportunities, so much has changed. We can all reflect on members of our own families for whom innovation and technology in the medical space has meant the difference between life and death. This is a bill that seeks to, basically, discredit or remove not just protections but a lot of the thinking in this space around innovation and technology. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ENow, we need to keep up in terms of our pace with technological change. This bill, in terms of it being a repeal bill, is doing absolutely nothing in that particular space. It is a piece of work in itself, but what it seeks to remove is all of the years of work that Governments of various different colours have been working on over the last 15 years to get to this point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI have had an opportunity to look at the select committee report. It didn\u2019t take very long because it\u2019s actually very brief, let alone the fact that they had, I think, over 200 submitters\u2014yeah, 224 submissions\u2014but not many of them have actually been covered.  There\u2019s one bit of information there that has been raised in the report, and I do want to just touch on it because I do think it\u2019s going to have an implication on a particular subset or sector of our community for whom this will make a real difference. It\u2019s on page 4 of the report, and it talks about the fact that at the moment, there is a section of the Medicines Act, which is section 29, that does actually allow doctors\u2014specifically doctors\u2014to request the supply of medicine that hasn\u2019t been approved by Medsafe. Now, the submitters on this process indicated that, actually, there is another group of medical professionals for whom this would make a lot of sense, and that\u2019s nurse practitioners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ENow, when we\u2019re having real issues in this country\u2014and this is a Government that, clearly, wants to make it worse, because they\u2019re not interested in having front-line support when it comes to health services in Aotearoa New Zealand\u2014this opportunity for nurse practitioners to be able to have that right to be empowered under legislation or regulation to support communities for whom it\u2019s really difficult to gain access to medical support or assistance and for them to be able to have that provision is going to be a game-changer. When I think about rural communities and when I think of other communities who rely on the support of health professionals and, in particular, nurse practitioners, this change is, basically, gutting that opportunity within the time frame through to late 2026. Why? Because the existing piece of legislation that is currently on the books would have allowed those prescription powers to, basically, be extended to include nurse practitioners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t know, Mr Assistant Speaker O\u2019Connor, about your fine electorate, but I know that, in mine, nurse practitioners are doing some really good work, whether it\u2019s around diabetes prevention, whether it\u2019s in the asthma space and respiration, and then a whole lot more. Why is this Government on the one hand wanting to, basically, slash funding in health and support for front-line workers and, at the very same time, removing the various tools in the tool kit that will support the practitioners for whom this will make a real difference? The flow-on effect of that is through to the households that would benefit from that. It is very disappointing that that\u2019s a particular view that those members have formed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EOf course, if we step back and look at that, it\u2019s not just the legislation that would say that, yes, all nurse practitioners would be able to do that; what the existing legislation empowers is the Nursing Council to provide approval for it, alongside the Minister of Health. It\u2019s not just saying that there are no guidelines here or\u2014people might call it hurdles\u2014no hoops to go through; this is saying that there is a regulatory and legislative process that would support and empower our communities to be able to receive that support in their time of need, if that is what they needed to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWe haven\u2019t heard much from the Government around this, and what I would really like to hear is how this change is going to make it safer for our communities. How is having a piece of legislation or a law drafted and enacted in 1981\u2014I\u2019m not saying that all laws that are historical need to be redrafted and re-enacted, but what I am saying is that, when it comes to medicine and healthcare, innovation, and technology and when we have those changes that are taking place, Governments need to be agile and responsive to those, otherwise our communities miss out. This is a short-sighted attempt to, basically, cut that opportunity off at the knees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe Government has a runway through to late 2026. The only reason that we are progressing this under urgency this afternoon is because they simply need to tick a couple of boxes for those who have asked for this, rather than look at the bigger picture. We will continue to oppose this in light of the silence from the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e914258f0d0545f3ad14267acae6e55a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e914258f0d0545f3ad14267acae6e55a\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This is pretty simple. It\u2019s a bad piece of legislation. We\u2019re getting rid of it, and then we\u2019re going to replace it. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002243f191c2a4c7499f8fabe3aaf4c1e987\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243f191c2a4c7499f8fabe3aaf4c1e987\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Lawrence Xu-Nan, I take it that you are applying for Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2019s five-minute call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e95dee6ddecc42bb87ee0fbb3973c8da\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am, in accordance with parliamentary practices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257f562cdb0b341018a588afbc689c761\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Very quick off the mark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc96750ee473476cb7b070c2c1c80909\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc96750ee473476cb7b070c2c1c80909\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of Te P\u0101ti K\u0101k\u0101riki to also take a five-minute call to express that we do not support this legislation, and there are a number of reasons why. I think, first of all, there are two main concerns with this particular legislation more broadly. Number one is: why? I think, when we are looking at putting legislation through the House, there is an intended purpose and a clear trajectory forward on what we are expecting to be the next step and whether we\u2019re expecting it to be a benefit to Aotearoa and to the people, as opposed to a tit for tat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ESome of the things that I would like to explore more during the committee stage and some of the things I have seen from the very brief report from select committee is around the fact that people do not have the level of certainty to what it means if this is repealed. I guess my question is: why are we repealing a bill as opposed to bringing something fully fleshed out? The Government parties keep on mentioning that it doesn\u2019t come into effect until 2026, which I understand, in which case it actually does give the Government parties some time to put out a fully formed bill, as opposed to repealing something that isn\u2019t in effect yet and completely leaving a vacuum to what is to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, the second part of this is more concerning in terms of the fact that we do see the Minister in charge. It would be good to get some of that advice from the Minister when we get to the committee of the whole House stage\u2014that we\u2019re seeing a lot of work being done but not a lot of work being done on the main ministerial portfolio, which is seniors, which is a growing concern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EIn this particular bill, I think this is one of the reasons that we\u2019re seeing this tit for tat in Parliament, where we are repealing each other\u2019s bills over time. One of the comments that submitters have made is the wasted time and energy that it cost people, and it cost everyone, because some of the consultations and some of the changes and some of the money have already been spent in line with the Therapeutic Products Act (TPA), despite the fact that it doesn\u2019t come into effect until later.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ETo give a broader context in terms of the original TPA, I think other speakers have mentioned a lot in terms of the various elements when it comes to the natural health products (NHPs), when it comes to medical devices such as surgical mesh, when it comes to other forms of medicine and pharmaceutical active compounds, but I think one of the things that is clear when we\u2019re looking at the original purpose and intent of the TPA is the fact that it wants to do what\u2019s best for the people of Aotearoa, in terms of having that genuine engagement and consultation with the public in the process of putting together secondary legislation to be ready for that 2026 launch date. It is about collaborating and co-creating with the people of Aotearoa, rather than putting something forward and just deciding \u201CYou know what? This is what we\u2019re going to do; we don\u2019t care what people think.\u201D and expecting other people to be brought along as a part of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThere are other things that I think are also kind of important in this. I think many have mentioned, and I would like to home in on some particular legislation that was repealed under\u00A0the TPA\u2014or is updated in the TPA, but now has been repealed and put everyone into a limbo situation\u2014and that is the Dietary Supplements Regulations 1985. Now, people have mentioned that that is 40 years ago, and we have seen that NHPs have come a long way since 1985. There\u2019s also a lot of research that\u2019s being done. I want to also draw attention to the House of the most recent. In fact, over the last few days, some of the concerns by the US Food and Drug Administration is around the company AG1, and in terms of some of the investigation discovery that has been done around liver harm issues and also an increased level of hepatic enzyme functions that we\u2019re seeing with NHPs. In fact, this is something that the Ministry for Primary Industries is currently investigating, and I think this is a really important point to mention in the context of when we are repealing this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EAgain, there are a number of questions that we would like to ask and get clarification on from the Minister. Particularly the other thing to mention is the completely lacklustre departmental disclosure report. There is no regulatory impacts or interest, nothing. We\u2019re just repealing it with no additional information. We\u2019re really keen to discuss that at the committee stage. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002281c20889b8714dcaa4c5f3e5c6981450\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Therapeutic Products Act Repeal Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 37\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000519\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00224abb69e59f70455788d668835e282d00\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224abb69e59f70455788d668835e282d00\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I declare the House in committee for consideration of the Therapeutic Products Act Repeal Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bef3f7bba23f43c79fc00edc1c9b2f87\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f6b71ec27da24f40b98135a9d6bf559f\u0022\u003EPart 1  Repeal of Therapeutic Products Act 2023 and related matters\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00221e35fdbdb8ff4e4c98040ad21e2716c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e35fdbdb8ff4e4c98040ad21e2716c5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Therapeutic Products Act Repeal Bill. We come first to Part 1. Part 1 is the debate on clauses 3 to 6, \u201CRepeal of the Therapeutic Products Act 2023 and related matters\u201D. The question is that Part 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00225b9fb5b4f19e492ca066a32f4e65958f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b9fb5b4f19e492ca066a32f4e65958f\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to start off by asking the Associate Minister of Health some of the broader questions, and I\u2019m looking specifically in the context of clause 3 when we\u2019re looking at the Therapeutic Products Act 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, although this clause might seem quite simple, the ramifications of it on an Act with hundreds of pages and over 400 clauses is quite substantial, so this particular clause can\u2019t be taken lightly. I guess my first question to the Minister is: what is the alternative? Why bring this bill to the House without a fully fleshed alternative already in the works? That is my first question. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u00222af677e8d1274796a1ef6c516198c3cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222af677e8d1274796a1ef6c516198c3cf\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. We have a series of questions, and it\u2019s probably quite congruent with a bill like this that we perhaps make them a bit more sort of quick-fire questions and give the Associate Minister of Health the chance to answer in bulk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EI agree with the question that\u2019s just been asked, and I suppose, on the back of that, I\u2019d also like to know how does that abbreviated pathway address the complexities of regulating medical devices that currently lack suitable oversight such as surgical mesh, and pacemakers would be another good example of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWe know that with the Therapeutic Products Act (TPA) that is being repealed, there\u2019s been several mentions this afternoon about it coming into effect in September 2026, but, of course, before that was to happen\u2014that was the runway, wasn\u2019t it?\u2014there was a huge amount of consultation and work in regards to that secondary legislation and those regulations. What is the Minister planning in that sphere to give us the requisite confidence, I suppose, if we\u2019re just thinking about medical devices as an example? As a first question, how can she address those complexities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EAlso, I\u2019m wondering, can the Minister provide some sort of time line for the implementation, and explain how the delay that will inevitably happen? Again, we\u2019ve heard comment that it doesn\u2019t matter because the TPA wasn\u2019t going to come into effect until 2026, but if you think you\u2019re starting over again and you\u2019re still not going to have to go through that secondary process, then that doesn\u2019t make sense. Can the Minister provide a time line for what will be ultimately implementation, and explain how the delay could impact confidence in regard to that reform? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u002236c2c6438956453182d6e7f8e9c66aad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236c2c6438956453182d6e7f8e9c66aad\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Similar sort of question, but a different line, and that is around that sense of urgency\u2014why the Associate Minister of Health believes that, when it comes to clause 3 of this part, it is important to do so despite the fact that there is an existing runway in place. That\u2019s the first part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EIn the second reading contributions, there were a number of comments about one example, and that\u2019s surgical mesh. How does the Minister intend that, as colleagues have touched on, any new pathways that may exist\u2014how will issues, like concerns around surgical mesh and others\u2014I accept that there are other considerations there, but I just want to touch on that one for the time being. As a result of this legislation, as I understand it, there will then be a void in terms of any oversight over issues that relate to surgical mesh. How does the Minister intend that this part of the bill seeks to address or mitigate those concerns that certainly have been raised by constituents and others? I\u2019m sure that some colleagues who may be watching from home will be interested in that as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022 data-id=\u0022fed140f17ba24f779503e981c902e492\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fed140f17ba24f779503e981c902e492\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the members for their questions and the valid concerns about why\u2014repeal versus amendment has been raised a few times. I think it\u2019s important to recognise that across the House we recognise this is a big piece of work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EWhat I want to assure the members is that this is not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. We are very much aware that there is a lot of value in what has been done and that there\u2019s a lot of knowledge and gain through that consultation process. The purpose of the repeal is so that we aren\u2019t working towards a piece of work\u2014that we are going to spend a lot of money, a lot of time, as has been mentioned, developing the secondary legislation. We really needed to clarify the position and that was the separation out of natural health products from the medicines and medical devices components. The pathway forward, as I said in my second reading speech, is the development of the medical products bill, and we have a lot of information and learnings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EOne of the big discussion points we had was the concerns\u2014and I think it came through with the select committee; there was a lot of concern\u2014about the over-regulation, that we have significant issues like what has occurred with surgical mesh, and that we weren\u2019t having a risk-proportionate approach in this regulatory framework that would allow us to differentiate high-risk products. That, I think, came through from the select committee responses about the over-regulation. The need to act at pace to repeal was so that we weren\u2019t continuing with a piece of work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI think the other thing is \u201CWhy not amend?\u201D We broadly recognised across the House that we have talked a lot about the complexity of this legislation and the importance of getting it right. I don\u2019t think you want to come to a piece of work that is as significant as this legislation and you have done a whole lot of amendments and repeals to the existing legislation before it\u2019s come into place. I think it\u2019s important that we recognise that this is about allowing us to reset the programme of work, and the repeal allows us to do that reset and keep moving forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EThere has been a lot of concerns about the surgical mesh issue, and I recognise and I give absolute total respect to those brave women who fought so hard to have this issue recognised and concerned. The controls and systems that were in place around surgical mesh, the pause on the use of surgical mesh, and the ongoing development of guidelines are continuing. There is nothing about this repeal that will change those controls and protections that are in place currently. The assurance is that we have a complete recognition of the importance to not undo anything on any of those safeguards that are currently in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI think the programme of work from now in, in terms of the time line\u2014I\u2019d love to give you a fixed time line at this point, but the repeal is the first stage. The intention is that now we will be developing the replacement legislation, but also working on the secondary legislation at the same time. I think you heard a lot in the process\u2014there was a lot of concern that there was primary legislation without secondary legislation in place and there were a lot of unknowns. We want to make sure that there\u2019s some balance in this process as we develop, as we move forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI think the recognition across the House and the expertise is that we all know how important this is to get it right. We all know how important it is, this programme of work, but we also had to recognise that the legislation, as it was, was creating a much bigger regulator and need because we had incorporated natural health products into that development of a solution. It was about how we differentiate that. I hope that\u2019s answered some of those questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022026c0be57826475fbbe7adebceac1144\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022026c0be57826475fbbe7adebceac1144\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I thank you, the Associate Minister of Health, for your explanation, which has helped me shape up my question and partially\u2014partially\u2014answered it or given me some guidance, because I wanted to reflect on my colleague Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s question earlier. I understand the Minister wants to sweep things clean back to 1981 and then start again. I\u2019m really wanting a little bit more detail about what that legislation might look like, because surely there has been some thought put into it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019m really interested in is what proposals, in more detail, does the Minister have for delivering a modern regulatory regime? I\u2019m not seeking the general approach\u2014I\u2019d like to hear some detail because\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251280ebf0dc24800a9606f4194bfe168\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Can we just have quiet to my right-hand side, please? I\u2019m listening very carefully and I can hear some of the points are being made. I think the questions around the pathway to the Minister are fair, but there\u2019s no expectation that the Minister should be able to explain\u2014it\u2019s a repeal process. There\u2019s no onus on the Minister to explain the next piece of legislation that\u2019s coming\u2014just to clarify that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c91c09840c8b414295997b0e47344060\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I do understand that this is a repeal, but what we are hoping for\u2014and what we had expected to see\u2014was that there had been some thought into not just breaking but also making. What we\u2019ve seen from this Government is a case of vandalism over the past year, breaking and repealing legislation. This may not have been the most perfect legislation, but we haven\u2019t seen anything positive. Creation is a difficult thing, and this is what we\u2019ve got.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard from members opposite that this bill took a long time, an accusation that it was very slow in the process\u201415 years. The irony here is that it is being slowed down\u2014a modern regulatory regime is being slowed down\u2014even further by a repeal. That\u2019s the irony of what we\u2019re facing here. The Government is accusing the previous Government of taking a long time and now is doing even worse. Why not spend some time to do it right? I\u2019m really seeking some greater clarity from the Minister. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u002215f44a823d2a4e3d913ceed9b2a628be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215f44a823d2a4e3d913ceed9b2a628be\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you, Madam Chair. I listened to that explanation from the Associate Minister of Health the Hon Casey Costello and I do have further questions around this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EThe option they have chosen is to repeal. We hear that the Government recognises the need to have something to replace this. We are being told that there has been some thinking that has been done around that, that maybe a lot of the work that has gone into it may not be wasted and that some of it can inform that work that they\u2019re doing, but when I was listening to that contribution\u2014given that this wasn\u2019t going to come into effect until 2026\u2014I don\u2019t understand why we are having to rush through this repeal under urgency just before Christmas. If the Government had plenty of time before it actually came into effect, it could have done that through the work that the Minister said was being done and come back with amendments to this legislation, and not in fact just have a repeal and start with a clean slate, and so on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI want the Minister to explain why it is so necessary to rush this through urgency when it wasn\u2019t going to come into effect until 2026 and you know that further work has to be done and the Government knows that it could have addressed those issues with amendments. The question is: why is this being rushed through now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022 data-id=\u002295da8ee4781643f4bc6000a3efdf8fbd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295da8ee4781643f4bc6000a3efdf8fbd\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member Willow-Jean Prime for her questions, and I note, as a former associate health Minister, she will appreciate the complexity of developing this legislation and that it wasn\u2019t that we had a piece of legislation that was going to appear in 2026 and we had time to work on it. As we\u2019ve heard, there was a huge amount of secondary legislation to develop, there were the IT systems and information systems that needed to be developed to deliver the product. Therefore, if we had continued work on that piece of legislation, then we would have been committing a whole lot of resource that wouldn\u2019t necessarily be done. It\u2019s important to get some really clear frameworks around what needed to be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI think, in terms of the member from the Green Party who was questioning about the future state or what it looks like, we need to get back to the point that there is a lot of work to be done on that future state, but this is about repealing this existing legislation. I think that one of the things the select committee heard and recognised was that there were a lot of issues to be dealt with; there wasn\u2019t a huge amount of support for the legislation as it was. Rather than floundering around for an extended period of time with uncertainty, it was really important to demonstrate to the sector a clear path forward: that we weren\u2019t going to be continuing with this piece of legislation; we were going to carve out natural health products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EThose decisions needed to be made to make some clear direction, both for the officials developing the legislation and for all of the external expertise that we will need to bring in to make sure this legislation is truly fit for purpose and delivering exactly what all members across the House want, which is a robust and futureproofed delivery of medicines and medical products to New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6317f16bf8b4a7aba7977e0cd1b4b59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6317f16bf8b4a7aba7977e0cd1b4b59\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (Whip\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002212f6127b36bc4ddeb64d24b92e7b29aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212f6127b36bc4ddeb64d24b92e7b29aa\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s been on his feet for a little bit, or trying to, so I\u2019m going to let him have a question. The Minister\u2019s been very forthcoming in answering the whys around this Part 1, so please make it very succinct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022238e4c52f2eb40f6ad67cb39717267b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022238e4c52f2eb40f6ad67cb39717267b7\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I would have other members know that I always reference the clause number, and I\u2019m always on the correct part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d84a0605aec4524964032fd8c5e71c5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s why I took your call!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8315a875c6546e19acfb3e0d79c6dba\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you so much, Madam Chair. I think the reason we\u2019re asking a few questions around clause 3 is because there is no information, there is no departmental report whatsoever on this, and it is very clear in the departmental disclosure statement that no work has been done around identifying the issues around this particular repeal. I want to just ask a follow-on question to how the Minister responded to clause 3 before. I want to move on to clauses 5 and 6, but also, in particular, to the Minister\u2019s Amendment Paper, which hasn\u2019t gone through select committee, and this is Amendment Paper 239.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EOn clause 3, one of the things that the Minister said is that we are looking at a reset. I appreciate what the Minister is saying in terms of what will happen, but I want to check with the Minister again, in lieu of a departmental report or any sort of regulatory impact statement or supplementary analysis: what about the work that\u2019s been done already? Does the Minister know how much work has been done in terms of secondary legislation or consultation before we repeal this bill? Again, there\u2019s no information on this. This just provides some certainties to some of the submitters, who also reflected on the time, money, and effort already spent on the process of introducing the Therapeutic Products Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EAlso, if the Minister wouldn\u2019t mind clarifying: if there was work that was being done on this, has the work stopped since the Minister came in to become the Associate Minister of Health, or has that work stopped when this bill went through first reading or has been introduced to the House? Again, that is significant, I think, for the public to realise whether that has been something that has stopped so people didn\u2019t waste their time working on consultation, etc., over the last year\u2014last 14 months, to be exact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EIn terms of clauses 5 and 6\u2014again, still on Part 1\u2014we are looking at amendments to the Food Act. I want to just check the Minister\u2019s clarity in terms of her Amendment Paper\u00A0239 and the new addition of section 420(3), inserted by clause 6, and new clauses 6A and 6B\u2014particularly, I\u2019m interested in clause 6B and the fact that we\u2019re looking at dietary requirements, with supplements not being a part of this, or being excluded from some of these. I just wanted to ask, in light of some of the reasoned examples I mentioned, particularly with the Ministry for Primary Industries\u2019 investigation into AG1 and other natural health product issues, whether she will have confidence that this isn\u2019t going to put people at harm, because it\u2019s now being excluded from some of the food standards that we\u00A0have. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022 data-id=\u0022d846d6f2558a4649ba7968fb6be7d9f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d846d6f2558a4649ba7968fb6be7d9f8\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member Lawrence Xu-Nan for his questions and his concerns about the future state and recognise that there is important information, but I think for the purpose of this discussion, we need to be focusing on the repeal bill. In terms of when work stopped, if you bear in mind the legislation was passed about three months before the election, work stopped as soon as that commitment to repeal was put in place. We were able to work and develop concepts and theories around the future state, but beyond that detail, it\u2019s sort of beyond what we\u2019re discussing here in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI think I\u2019d like to just highlight first, before I go into the amendment\u2014it was just to talk about how we\u2019ve had a lot of discussion about going back to the medicines legislation and we talk about the 1981 legislation. We have to recognise that, since 1981, there has been quite a significant amount of amendments and there will continue to be amendments as we work through this process to ensure\u2014we touched on the nurse practitioners, and so work is continuing around how we create more efficiencies within the existing legislation. We\u2019re not sitting dormant, not doing anything about how we can gain efficiencies and improve health systems in the meantime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s worth noting that we\u2019re not talking about going back to anything; we are continuing with the legislation that we\u2019re currently operating under. We\u2019re not reverting; we\u2019re not changing. I think, when you talk about the departmental statements and the\u00A0impacts, there is no impact, because we\u2019re not avoiding anything. They weren\u2019t in place;\u00A0therefore, there is no impact, because the existing framework continues and will continue through this process. We\u2019re not changing anything significantly. Impact has to be considered on that basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI will take some time just to talk about the amendment because I can appreciate that, walking into it relatively fresh, it\u2019s just a bit of an anomaly around the legislation. The Amendment Paper lays the groundwork for improvements to the regulation of dietary supplements. The effect of the Amendment Paper will be to move the Dietary Supplements Regulations 1985 from the repealed Food Act 1981 and, instead, deem them as being made under the modern Food Act 2014. While this may sound like a merely procedural change, it will bring some immediate benefits to dietary supplement exporters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EFollowing the lift and shift of the Dietary Supplements Regulations, exporters will be able to apply for exemptions from New Zealand labelling and composition requirements. This will enable them to better compete in international markets. At the moment, our exporters are competing with other countries\u2019 products at a disadvantage. Other countries can make and label their products according to the laws of the importing countries. Our manufacturers must follow New Zealand rules, even if they are incompatible with overseas laws. Industry has long advocated for exemptions for exported products. We have a chance to help exporters today, and that is the reason we\u2019re bringing it through today, because this is an opportunity to, as you\u2019ve mentioned, do something sooner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EWhile the Therapeutic Products Act (TPA) would have included provisions for exported dietary supplements, it would have also imposed overly complex regulations for these products. Making this change by amendment to the TPA Repeal Bill shows that the Government is continuing to listen to industry and is delivering on its commitment to double exports within 10 years. The lift and shift of the Dietary Supplements Regulations is only the first in a series of reforms to the export of dietary supplements, and in the longer term, other natural products, and we\u2019re working on those solutions moving forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0ba51bd13514e5aa443e2c4498a579e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0ba51bd13514e5aa443e2c4498a579e\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231ff596bbb1341ce9354b9d0cd72843a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I understand the member\u2019s just put an Amendment Paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022517d6382855249358a8a5884decb9184\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: I have, but not relevant to Part 1; it\u2019s to the commencement. I\u2019ll talk to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e36c0bcb00e45df8170d1b15f76e8a1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7d0de5c77f24506b41fd27d5329e3d7\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to speak to clause 3. This is very important because there are still a number of questions that I understand members on this side of the committee have, and it\u2019s important for us to work through those. The reason for that is that what clause 3 does is it repeals, basically, all the work that is currently in place at the moment, being undertaken, under the existing Act that this particular bill seeks to repeal. I know it\u2019s one sentence, clause 3, but the implications of this\u2014this is really where it all comes down to it\u2014is going to, basically, can all of the work that has been put in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve got questions around M\u0101ori approaches to rongo\u0101. I\u2019ve got other questions around other forms of device. I\u2019ve got challenges around natural health. They are all things that currently are in play as a result of the legislation that is in place right here, right now. What this bill is seeking to do is to not just put it on hold; it\u2019s, basically, seeking to can it entirely. My questions for the Minister are around what mitigation can she give for the various things that I wish to touch on to, I guess, mitigate the concerns that we may or may not have about whether we think clause 3 should be enacted or not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis is about whether the bill is going to be repealed or not. The first one I want to touch on\u2014and I accept that surgical mesh has been referred to\u2014really is around the significant risks that are associated with many of these medical devices outside of surgical mesh, and what immediate measures the Minister intends to put in place. What I heard from the Minister, I think, was that there is a piece of work that will be ongoing. She cannot give a definitive time frame for that suite of works that\u2019s going to be undertaken or given. What I think she, hopefully, is able to provide the committee with is some mitigation that these concerns that are in place, right here, right now\u2014and that\u2019s the reason why the principal Act has been put into place to sort of, I guess, ameliorate some of those concerns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWhat is the Minister seeking to do to ensure that the risks associated with unregulated medical devices\u2014not regulated ones, because that\u2019s subject to a whole new process or framework\u2014that those that might want to engage, if they\u2019re able to, with that type of device would right here, right now understand that there was a framework in place that would provide some certainty for them? If this bill is repealed, that certainty goes, so what is the Minister\u2019s response to address the concerns for those out there that might have concerns in this space? What are this Minister\u2019s plans to, I guess, allay some of those concerns?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe other is around the regulatory approach to these devices. Where do we sit compared with other global or international best practices? Is the Minister concerned that, by repealing this legislation, we would be better or we would be worse or there is no difference in terms of how we might be seen in a global sense, our international reputation, which is very important to this Parliament\u2014indeed, I don\u2019t speak for the Government, but it could be for them\u2014how these changes or this proposed change would place us compared with other parts of the world?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb2d4e3a357a4eb8ad972f3613a05c0f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb2d4e3a357a4eb8ad972f3613a05c0f\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for his question and recognise that the repeal doesn\u2019t change anything around medical products and devices that currently exist at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EThe legislation, as we\u2019ve said, wasn\u2019t in place, so there were no additional controls that were in place. The repeal doesn\u2019t change the state of things, and, in fact, from the feedback we\u2019ve received, and, I think, from the select committee, the risk of over-regulating and not having risk-proportionate legislation would actually have made things harder for medical products, particularly in an advancing technology environment where we need to be able to be nimble and recognise and approve products quicker. There is no impact, on that basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EIn terms of international relationships, as I understand, I think at the moment, and I think it would have been recognised as this legislation was developed, that in terms of New Zealand\u2019s approach around medical devices, we were a bit of an outlier in terms of the other countries\u2019 approaches to controls around medical devices and medical products, which is why we\u2019re pushing forward with this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022 data-id=\u002209c8d9cedf074549b49fcc75a2929328\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209c8d9cedf074549b49fcc75a2929328\u0022\u003ESUZE REDMAYNE (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bd4dce792bd94d4cbfc8783ace2bb563\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 37\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6824cc331e942c3b48ee95d96fa16f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6824cc331e942c3b48ee95d96fa16f2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Part 1 set out on Amendment Paper 239 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022de77f3b549e444c79a637d4f85d068d5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 37\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002220785e4ddb6f42719f62696a815a5ee0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 37\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b134c2bea6174cf9bcc67af46e2bbb88\u0022\u003EPart 2  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000579\u0022\u003ERepeal of this Act\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00220aaa08c172fd4131badaaaf5ca887828\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220aaa08c172fd4131badaaaf5ca887828\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to Part 2. Part 2 is the debate on clause 7, \u201CRepeal of this Act\u201D. The question is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00227b8090bcdbf94cbb9f878c3cacd77b17\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b8090bcdbf94cbb9f878c3cacd77b17\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like some clarification, first of all, from the Associate Minister of Health the Hon Casey Costello on this. I know it\u2019s just one particular clause, clause 7, so I\u2019ll only be taking one call on this unless further clarification is required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ECan I just check that this is in reference to\u2014and I know this is probably because it\u2019s quite late\u2014the Therapeutic Products Act (TPA), and not in terms of repealing the Therapeutic Products Act Repeal Bill, or is it actually to do with repeal of the current legislation? If it\u2019s the repeal of the current legislation, then we do have an amendment on this, which is to extend the repeal of the Act on the close of not \u201Cthe 28th day\u201D but \u201Cthe 128th day\u201D in order to provide further confidence for people and for some of the areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI want to address a few submissions in particular. The Royal New Zealand College of General Practitioners, the Optometrists and Dispensing Opticians Board, and the Federation of Women\u2019s Health Council are all concerned that the repealing of the TPA without a replacement might be harmful for the people of Aotearoa and will leave significant gaps in the regulation of medical devices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ESo, I guess, just a clarification of what it is repealing, and if it is the one that I think it is repealing, then we have an amendment\u2014if the Minister wouldn\u2019t mind considering extending the close from 28 to 128 days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff197f690bad48e2ad43dd66d04e79c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff197f690bad48e2ad43dd66d04e79c6\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I suppose a technical explanation on this is that, effectively, once this Act becomes an Act, it repeals the Therapeutic Products Act and then this Act repeals itself within 28 days, because it\u2019s repealed its Act, so it\u2019s a technical process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022 data-id=\u00227946836d50874198bf3ec9d4a4a9f992\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227946836d50874198bf3ec9d4a4a9f992\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a44615b5920546a7a1756c984799db9f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 37\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b464ef9f6d7f401e8032ea698a6434c5\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00224a4dcdfcaffc45b4a2581b1ed17250d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a4dcdfcaffc45b4a2581b1ed17250d9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to our final debate\u2014clauses 1 and 2. This is the debate on the title and commencement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u002213978153fdd246d9b3b1ade19bc41902\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213978153fdd246d9b3b1ade19bc41902\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for foreshadowing earlier that I have an amendment in relation to this part of the debate. There could be one around the actual title of the bill. Often, as we all know\u2014well, not often; the title should always be what it appears to do, and I guess you could say that this is a repeal bill; it simply does that. It might be that others might consider that there needs to be something in brackets to, effectively, sense the trigger for the reason for the appeal, and there would be plenty of options there. When I reflect on some of the contributions that have\u00A0been made and what it will mean\u2014i.e., perhaps \u201C(Not Taking Community Health Seriously)\u201D, \u201C(Delivering for Those That We\u2019d Like to Deliver for)\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI have an Amendment Paper which is related to clause 2, which is the commencement clause. As we see currently, it is proposed that this repeal bill will come into\u00A0force on the day after Royal assent. If Royal assent is received today, or whether it\u2019s received perhaps next week, it\u2019ll kick in thereafter. What I am suggesting is that the words \u201Con the day\u201D be replaced with \u201C12 months\u201D. This gives a 12-month window for the Government to think about the potential implications of this particular bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe Minister has talked about the fact that, yes, there is a little bit of work that\u2019s happening, but there\u2019s not much really to be gained in delaying the Royal assent for this. We on this side, certainly in Labour, disagree. By providing a 12-month window to allow for some of the issues to be worked through\u2014when I reflect on some of the issues around surgical mesh and other medical devices, particularly those that are unregulated, a lot can happen in 12 months. This could\u2014if this amendment is adopted or agreed upon\u2014lend itself alongside a suite of work that the Government might be doing to ensure that any changes are not just timely but are able to take into account any changes in innovation and technology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EFirstly, I\u2019d be interested in the Associate Minister of Health\u2019s thoughts around that. I really don\u2019t see how this could\u2014I know that sometimes when you look at a longer period of time, you could talk about that creating a bit of a delay. Well, when this already has implications listed in the principal Act to come in in late 2026, a 12-month period\u2014even if Royal assent is given at the end of this calendar year\u2014it would still be the end of 2025. That still provides a lot of time leading into the 2026 calendar year for the Minister to perhaps think about how that might work. Now, it might be that the Minister believes that the Royal assent, once given\u2014that this should just come in, because it does provide a different time frame, but we\u2019d be interested to hear from the Minister around why a one-year period would be unsatisfactory in this context.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022 data-id=\u0022eedfbf08ebab4b9583524bf155085ca0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eedfbf08ebab4b9583524bf155085ca0\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and I thank the member Tangi Utikere for his amendment. Unfortunately, the 12-month delay would mean that we wouldn\u2019t be able to implement the dietary supplement lift and shift into the new Food Act, and I think that the opportunity for that sector to develop their export markets and respond would be highly disappointing for no real benefit. As we\u2019ve said, the repeal is about providing some clarity in the work programme ahead. I see no benefit, so won\u2019t be supporting the amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00228554a917930040e686d625f6dd455874\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228554a917930040e686d625f6dd455874\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to first, again, check in with the Associate Minister of Health\u2014and I know that the Minister talks about commencement date, and we also support our colleague Tangi Utikere\u2019s amendment around some of the delay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EHearing from what the Minister is saying, I wondered if the Minister would consider, for example, putting in a delay around the commencement date for the bill itself but then separating out in saying that clauses 4 to 6 could be coming into effect after Royal assent, if the amendment 239 from the Minister is a genuine concern from a natural health product perspective and from an export perspective. I wondered if, then, the Minister, let\u2019s say, would make that kind of adjustment\u2014and I don\u2019t know if Tangi Utikere, our colleague, would be open to that, having those two being separated out. Again, I think the Minister is looking at two\u2014we can possibly have both and look at two separate issues, one in terms of export; one in terms of the reassurance from medical products and also a pharmaceutical perspective.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EJust coming to the title of the bill, I think, in terms of the title\u2014and we hear from the Minister what the Minister is trying to get at with this bill\u2014it generally does provide uncertainty for us to see this bill being dropped at this particular moment without a clear steer of where we\u2019re going as we\u2019re discussing this committee stage. I wondered if the Minister would be open to considering this to be the \u201CTherapeutic Products Act Repeal Delay Bill\u201D, just because we are seeing that delay in the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EAlso, I really want to round up what the Minister\u2019s saying in terms of Amendment Paper 239, and particularly in the context of exports. I think for me, as the Green Party\u2019s trade spokesperson, it also brings a different level of concern, which is the concern that we\u2019re seeing with the US Food and Drug Administration and also potential non-barrier tariffs or additional sanctions if we don\u2019t have a particularly tight or up-to-date amendment when it comes to exports of our products. Would the Minister then consider the title of this bill as the \u201CTherapeutic Products Act Repeal (but Potentially Creating Sanctions on Export) Bill 2024\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba1748847ad54b5bacc6c6e4bae4d5a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba1748847ad54b5bacc6c6e4bae4d5a0\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00228c85b2b0511346d0a974d6e5fec3d004\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c85b2b0511346d0a974d6e5fec3d004\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: One more. Last one, but make it relevant and quick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022879fbf676f224707907b31416834dbc8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022879fbf676f224707907b31416834dbc8\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E And quick? Well, I\u2019ve got four minutes and 55 seconds of relevance that I\u2019m happy to share with the Parliament. Madam Chair, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ELook, I take the point that my colleague Dr Xu-Nan has raised, and I\u2019ll be very open to making those changes if he is aligned to support that. The 12-month time period that I\u2019ve identified\u2014I have heard what the Associate Minister of Health the Hon Casey Costello has said, but I do think that there are significant considerations. The Minister has talked about the implications for international\u2014what\u2019s the word; not \u201Cnegotiations\u201D\u2014obligations that exist, particularly in the health supplement or dietary supplement sort of frame. I invite the Minister to reflect on the consideration of all the other changes that are impacted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI accept what the Minister has said in her response\u2014that there are international considerations there\u2014but, Minister, surely that needs to also be weighed up against all of the other things that, effectively, you are gutting as a result of this repeal bill through the Parliament? The commencement is very important, in terms of when it comes in. I don\u2019t know whether my colleague from the Greens wants to initiate that particular change or not. If he has, I\u2019m happy to support that; if not, well, then we\u2019ll stand where we are with the original Amendment Paper, but I do invite the Minister to reflect on not just the international obligations and commitments but all of those other things that are also important as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI note that there have been no other contributions and the Minister has not responded to the title. My question to the Minister when it comes to clause 1, which it the title clause\u2014I know I had identified a few options there. My question to the Minister is: is she satisfied that the title as currently provided for, the Therapeutic Products Act Repeal Bill, is an accurate title for this bill? We haven\u2019t heard from her around that. It might be that her view is that simply calling it a repeal bill is appropriate. In light of that, though, has she thought about the various contributions that have been made in the committee today, and, if so, has she perhaps changed her mind and would she like to consider a different title? We haven\u2019t heard from the Minister around this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EIt might be that she is somewhat persuaded by the comments and submissions that have been made by members of the committee; if not, well, then we\u2019ll hear that, but I don\u2019t think there are any other Amendment Papers on there. Madam Chair, I thank you for your kindness in allowing me to take a call\u2014not exhausting all of my time allocation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022 data-id=\u0022d86bffd384cb47b7aa57b0933ddd5171\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d86bffd384cb47b7aa57b0933ddd5171\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Ha, ha! Sorry, I just think it\u2019s worth clarifying, because the previous member talked a lot about international obligations and I have, at no point, talked about international obligations. What I have talked about is international opportunities for New Zealand\u2019s market. I think that\u2019s the consideration here. I just wanted to get some balance into that commentary: that this is about creating opportunity for New Zealand\u2019s export market, and that\u2019s the reason for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae7e490aa3204b3cb706e680d77ce652\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae7e490aa3204b3cb706e680d77ce652\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f70b4adb93bc4c9388db713a8b0dc5c1\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273fa2b8ab4a14172ad18305e3297ce3f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I just started voting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022082bcde8d40f400ca2735e54b4e8c3dc\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: No, but there were members seeking the call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225da8af11addd4527a54116e8e280153d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Carlos Cheung.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022 data-id=\u002283a5957e763849cf8a6455d0ade98318\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283a5957e763849cf8a6455d0ade98318\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022622c6be4eb3844ec8b5a7e45eba8fb3f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 37\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228f9928ac5d814cba8cc6fea314ae4cde\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 37\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00223d7436c0ddeb4bba962190d981544f6b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d7436c0ddeb4bba962190d981544f6b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Tangi Utikere\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 2 to replace the words \u201Con the day\u201D with \u201C12 months\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022459470521fe3413d853f10211e779325\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 37\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9943365e8f24147a945415dc8cce35b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9943365e8f24147a945415dc8cce35b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225008da19b66e470bb7f5c6e6a520727b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 37\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000614\u0022\u003EBill to be reported with amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000615\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022be3af56aa69e46d5b563e5f3fe583639\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be3af56aa69e46d5b563e5f3fe583639\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, the committee has considered the Therapeutic Products Act Repeal Bill and reports it with amendment. I move, That the report be adopted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002250084e8d50bf476d86c4471ebdffc2b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250084e8d50bf476d86c4471ebdffc2b1\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The Therapeutic Products Act Repeal Bill is set down for third reading immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bc174bbac9d444239f797389701592fb\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1beb9747cbb4f659da12ff5456b1805\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1beb9747cbb4f659da12ff5456b1805\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Therapeutic Products Act Repeal Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EThe Government is delivering on its commitment to New Zealanders to repeal the Therapeutic Products Act\u2014the TPA. Repealing the TPA is about more than delivering on an election commitment; it means the Government can continue its important work to prioritise timely and equitable access to quality health services. Repealing the TPA will allow for better replacement legislation to foster innovation within our healthcare system and for fit for purpose regulations around natural health products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI would like to thank everyone who made a submission on the Therapeutic Products Act Repeal Bill. The TPA was intended to modernise the current outdated regulatory framework for medicines, medical devices, and natural health products. However, industry, practitioners, and consumers told us and Parliament that it didn\u2019t get the balance right. The Government agrees. We also believe, along with the vast majority of those who submitted on the TPA, that natural health products should not be regulated alongside medicine and medical devices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EWe therefore have a chance to put sensible legislation in place for natural health products, including dietary supplements. This will take time as we consult with the sector on an appropriate way forward. However, we do have an opportunity to make improvements now to support our exporters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EDuring the committee debate, the Government amended the bill to move the Dietary Supplements Regulations 1985 from the long-repealed Food Act 1981 and reissue them under the more recent Food Act 2014. While a small change to the bill, this will bring meaningful change to New Zealand\u2019s dietary supplement exporters. The change we have made will allow for manufacturers of exported products to apply for exemptions from New Zealand - labelling composition requirements so they can better compete in international markets. The Government has an ambition of doubling New Zealand\u2019s exports within a decade, and this sensible change will help achieve that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EThis is only the first of many improvements this Government is planning to support our exporters to succeed on the world stage. Officials in the Ministry for Primary Industries and the Ministry of Health are already working on other changes to the regulation of dietary supplements to support this growing sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EOur actions here in repealing the TPA show that we are a Government who listens. I have heard those in industry who have grave concerns about the TPA and how it was going to be implemented. At the same time, patient groups and practitioners had pointed to the shortcomings of our current Medicines Act, which dates back over 40 years. The Government has listened to those concerned and is moving forward with the work for a new medical products bill. This new bill will not only ensure timely access to medicines but also support our innovators, our health practitioners and, most importantly, our patients. It will include provisions ensuring New Zealand\u2019s health system is resilient and able to respond to future public health emergencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003ERepealing the TPA was a key deliverable for the Government for 2024. The passage of the TPA repeal bill has shown the Government\u2019s commitment in getting important work done. The TPA repeal bill delivers on our promise to New Zealanders to get rid of law that\u00A0would have created unnecessary barriers to access and unnecessary barriers to innovation. Repealing the TPA also sets the stage for us to put in place a better law that gets the balance right. This Government is committed to making good and long-lasting changes to the regulations of medicines, medical devices, and natural health products. I commend the bill to the House. Thank you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2bd574986684acda43589025f63a420\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2bd574986684acda43589025f63a420\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u00220f2e81e743b04d73ba4dc7b86a42a3b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f2e81e743b04d73ba4dc7b86a42a3b2\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Here we are on\u2014what is it?\u2014Tuesday, 10 December, talking about a piece of legislation, a repeal bill, that didn\u2019t need to happen under urgency, that didn\u2019t need to happen now, that had plenty of time to happen at a stage where the Government could have been a little bit more open with their dialogue, a little bit more generous with their ability to answer some important questions about this bill\u2014if they had made a different decision and that was a decision not to put it through urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003ENever mind, we are here, and now we find ourselves in the position of being at the third reading. What is there left to say about the repeal of the Therapeutics Products Act (TPA)? Well, quite a bit, actually, as it happens, because it\u2019s very clear that\u2014well, I know I still had lots of questions that I would have liked to have had the opportunity to ask the Associate Minister of Health the Hon Casey Costello during the committee of the whole House stage, but I didn\u2019t get that. Given that this is my last opportunity to ventilate and to ask those questions, I\u2019ll probably rhetorically work my way through some of them as I muse about this third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EUnderlying all of that is the fact that I still, having sat through this process, am no further ahead in being any more convinced about the fact that the TPA should not have just been amended. There was absolutely no need to repeal. It\u2019s clear to me that whilst, on the surface, the Act is being repealed, below the surface, people are still working in the regulatory space. There\u2019s some parallel aspects involved in progressing this piece of legislation, and it would have made absolute perfect sense to do that through an amendment process. The only reason it\u2019s not being done through an amendment process is because that wouldn\u2019t have satiated or satisfied the appetite of the people that the Government needed to appease, essentially. That is why we find ourselves in this position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EAs I said, there were several things that have been left up in the air in terms of clarity, and I certainly am no clearer about whether there needs to be an abbreviated regulatory pathway from here on in, because the Minister has constantly said things or said in response to questions, as a means by which to bat off a question, that there is no impact because the bill hasn\u2019t come into effect. Technically, that is correct, but the regulations were all\u2014that is the runway that was in place, the regulatory work that was being done. That takes time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThis repeal Act and, essentially, starting again in two different formats\u2014does that regulatory pathway now need an abbreviated pathway to still get us to a similar time, which is September 2026, so that the new Act that\u2019s repealing this one, that we don\u2019t know about yet, that we haven\u2019t heard much about at all; we know it\u2019s coming. I would have thought that if the Government had campaigned on a particular thing and a particular promise to a particular group of people, they would have at least done some homework and made sure that they were ready to do what was needed, rather than just simply repeal. Again, that feeds my suspicion that it was just the repeal that was going to satiate those people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003ENevertheless, it is only true of the Minister to say that there will be no impact in relation to questions that have been asked if she is able to ensure that the new piece of legislation will be in effect by, roughly, September 2026. That, to my mind, would have necessitated quite an abbreviated regulatory pathway. I think this House is now none the wiser of what that pathway\u2019s going to look like. We are none the wiser when we talk to people in the community or stakeholders in the community about what that process might look like or what the outcome might look like, because we haven\u2019t been able to get those answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EAs well as that, there were also several things left unsaid in relation to natural health products. It\u2019s all very well to say that the Minister has an intentionality of parcelling natural health products out into its own separate piece of legislation, but I just really wanted to know more about why the Minister believed it would have been necessary to do that. What were the advantages? What were the potential disadvantages of having a separate legislative framework? And whether she was actually willing to take some responsibility if things went wrong in the meantime. We\u2019ll never know what the outcome of that will be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EOne of the other things that was frustrating not to be able to get some clarity on during this process\u2014and therefore, again, this third reading is the only opportunity to make these comments and to ventilate the issue\u2014was the Minister\u2019s thoughts and the Minister\u2019s intentionality towards direct-to-consumer advertising. I certainly remember, the first time round with the Therapeutic Products Act, that was a really important piece of the puzzle. It was something that exercised people. It might seem like it\u2019s not that important, but New Zealand is one of the only countries that still has the ability to advertise medicines directly to consumers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EOf course, that raises all sorts of ethical concerns. We heard from GP associations and various clinical groups saying that they can tell when a new wonder drug or a new product has started an advertising campaign on TV because all of a sudden they are incredibly busy and valuable GP appointment time can get taken up from people who are now seeking a prescription for something because they\u2019ve seen it on TV. It\u2019s a thorny issue and it\u2019s something that the Therapeutic Products Act had grappled with, and I would have loved to have heard what the new Minister was going to do in that respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe natural health product side of this equation\u2014and I can see why the Minister has chosen to section that out and to handle it differently, but it\u2019s still really, really unclear about the risk proportionality. A lot of the criticism of the TPA was based on a misnomer that natural health products shouldn\u2019t be treated in the same way as medicines\u2014and, of course, they never were intended to be, and that is the nature of risk-proportionate regulatory frameworks. It would have been good\u2014again, the theme of this third reading speech is missed opportunities. During this process, we simply haven\u2019t had the opportunity to properly look at this bill, and we haven\u2019t properly had the opportunity to consider, as we should have, the current Act, which is still in place. A big part of that would have been looking at natural health products and what the Minister\u2019s intentions were about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe real consequences of repealing this bill, and this Act going through under urgency on a Friday at this time of day\u2014having no chance to have a little bit of time between the second stage, between the committee of the whole House stage, and between the third stage to mull things over, to think about what\u2019s being said, and to do the bill a proper service in the way it should have been done. Nevertheless, this is the way we find ourselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EI still think that the Government needs to explain why it\u2019s not choosing simply to amend. In lieu of an explanation, in the void of an explanation, we can only assume that they simply don\u2019t have a plan. I think that that has borne itself to be very true today. If they don\u2019t have a plan, they don\u2019t know what they\u2019re doing, and that doesn\u2019t leave us with much confidence. If they don\u2019t have a plan and they don\u2019t know what they\u2019re doing and they\u2019re waiting for this to be done and dusted so they can kick off the next stage, then we really are going to be left behind. We understand, on this side of the House, having gone through the previous process, how long this will take.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EMy concern for the New Zealand public is that by doing this, by this Minister fulfilling a promise\u2014an election promise and a coalition deal\u2014the people of New Zealand won\u2019t get the modern Act in place by September 2026 that they would have done. Instead, they\u2019ll be left with a void, and that is just another way that this Government has demonstrated that they are taking us backwards and leaving us in a mess.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u002239e6ba09ee984a7ea7739a528650a493\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239e6ba09ee984a7ea7739a528650a493\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. We just cannot support this repeal, particularly when there\u2019s a huge void being left when it comes to a future legislative agenda.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220caf1293dc514a7fa25482ad3c90e4e1\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s no void.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f44b63822fe84724b006cf55e68484e1\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: I hear the words \u201Cno void\u201D, and I think it\u2019s disingenuous to get lost in the technicism. It was rightfully pointed out by the previous speaker, Dr Tracey McLellan, that we are repealing something that hasn\u2019t fully come into effect, and I\u2019m just literally going to paraphrase the previous speaker: the runway has been set, and I think that cannot be right\u2014resources were put into place so that, actually, we could have a modernised regime to regulate medicines, medical devices, and natural health products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think, when it comes to legislation, it\u2019s a lot easier to burn things down than to create new regulations and regimes. Sometimes when things are not working, like, for example, when we have a benefit sanctions regime that is not working, I do think there\u2019s a good argument to burn it down. On the other hand, though, when it comes to issues like this, we have heard from several sector experts, patients themselves, who think that simply going back to the Medicines Act 1981 isn\u2019t the solution, and that we do need an alternative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ETo me, there are several concerns around the use of urgency around this, right? I know in a previous speech there was a lot of bickering from this side around how it was Friday in a normal working week\u2014yes, completely right, people will be working\u2014but, actually, it\u2019s worthwhile taking into account that the public has not heard what genuine alternative plan this Government has in place to create a robust regulatory framework to, for example, centre patient safety when it comes to really serious issues that have been raised by patient safety advocates. To me, it\u2019s concerning that when the Associate Minister of Health the Hon Casey Costello first spoke, the narrative was predominantly around issues around commercial gain, and there was very little substantive focus on patient safety issues. This is concerning, because while I can acknowledge there were robust exchanges last term around the commercial implications of this Act, a really important consideration should have also been the other elements of this Act that would have enhanced patient safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI also want to touch on something the previous speaker spoke on, and I feel really strongly about this; I actually had, during the passage of the Therapeutic Products Bill at the time, an amendment to it that, actually\u2014I had a weird moment of shared purpose with Dr Shane Reti at the time around direct-to-consumer advertising, and this is relevant to this Act because we were told at the time that an outright ban of direct-to-consumer advertising wasn\u2019t needed. In a weird way, Dr Shane Reti and I actually agreed that it was something that should have been done, that we should have had an outright ban.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWe both had similar amendments at the time seeking to ban it outright, because the previous speaker was completely right; we\u2019re one of the few countries who allows this to continue to happen. We have heard from GPs about the impact of direct-to-consumer advertising, how it takes up time for GPs, because the information that is filtered down through the advertisement isn\u2019t always particularly helpful, and that actually clogs up time for GPs\u2019 services. This ends up benefiting pharmaceutical companies and not necessarily public health.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThis Act could have allowed for a regulatory framework around that. We were told that it could have been something that could have been looked into as part of it, but now we\u2019re just going back to having no mechanisms to address this. This is an issue that I do think does need to be looked at by the Government, and if Dr Shane Reti at the time felt really strongly about it, I do look forward to hearing from the Government, now that somebody like himself is in charge, about what plans there are in place to address this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s also important that we acknowledge that, actually, amongst genuine concerns and nuanced conversations about the Act in the last term, there was a genuine misinformation campaign that was coming from the ground in relationship to issues in the bill. This is why debates around issues like medicines and medical devices and natural health products do need to be grounded by evidence. These are areas that are fast-evolving and that therefore require constant attention; submitters, including those that may have held the view that this Act wasn\u2019t fit for purpose, told us that we still needed alternatives beyond the Medicines Act 1981.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI do think it\u2019s incumbent on the Government to be clear and transparent about what\u2019s next, because while we may have had some comments about natural health products, that is actually one component of what this Act would have covered. Again, it is concerning to see us simply just repeal the Therapeutic Products Act. When it comes to the regulation of medical devices, for example, as I said earlier, we are in a situation right now where our health workforce is particularly stretched, where patient safety advocates have told us that, when we do have a health workforce that is particularly stretched, we risk having far more incidents where medical devices that are already deemed to be of concern are used, and where more injuries and more incidents that can cause harm may, basically, be put in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re now having a pretty concerning combination of issues\u2014a repeal of an Act that could have addressed some of these issues in future, a Government that is under-resourcing our health sector, and, on top of that, that has an unwillingness to come forward with a transparent and robust plan to, I guess, bring forward a replacement of the Medicines Act 1981 and to have a modernised, robust regulatory framework to address issues, as I said earlier, on medicines, medical devices, and natural health products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EOne of the things that we considered when we were debating this Act in the past\u2014and I hope the Government considers going forward\u2014is that whatever comes next, if we are to have another regulatory framework where a lot of the decision making ends up being left to regulations, as it was in the case of this Act, we need to make sure that those regulatory bodies are adequately resourced so that we don\u2019t enter into a space like we did last term in the debate, where people rightfully felt that many of our health entities hadn\u2019t actually carefully considered the voices of patients. That\u2019s feedback that I do think we earnestly need to take on board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ETo address that requires a Government that is willing to invest in the Public Service, to unlock the potential of the Public Service to be as much in touch to the ground as they can be, to enable the voices of patients to help weave whatever alternative comes next\u2014if there is to be an alternative, which we actually don\u2019t yet really know about. When we talk about some of the patients most affected by some of the issues that were raised in previous debates, we\u2019re talking about people with rare health conditions, with really life-impacting disabilities or injuries that may be really hard to actually discuss in public. Therefore, that actually requires a really well-resourced public sector to go into our communities to have these really sensitive conversations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EFinally, as we close off this debate, I do want to mihi to all the patients who have actually helped drive change in this area over the course of the years, including, actually, helping to create the very same Act that the Government is about to repeal. It was the bravery and the voices of these patients\u2014talking, for example, about the harm that medical devices such as surgical mesh have caused\u2014that helped drive conversations at a national level, and actually helped support people internationally as well to drive those conversations. We are seeing how in other countries, medical devices, now at risk of being left unregulated here, are now being explored to be more tightly regulated in the future. I think that should serve as a lesson for us that, actually, when we do have patients giving us, very graciously, their experiences and their information to enable change for the better, we ought to listen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI encourage the Government to come forward with an alternative to the Medicines Act 1981 to centre the wellbeing of patients in our communities and to resource the public sector so that our communities can be involved in creating that future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022 data-id=\u0022fcd0856cbba84a0fa0b40975b7de267f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fcd0856cbba84a0fa0b40975b7de267f\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m very pleased to rise on behalf of ACT to talk about the Therapeutic Products Act Repeal Bill. ACT campaigned on repealing the Therapeutic Products Act, let\u2019s be clear. We were very pleased to get that into our coalition agreement and we\u2019re very pleased to deliver this today. Why did we campaign on that? Because, like in so many areas, the last Government got it wrong. They did not engage properly with stakeholders. They did not understand how to do public policy and they totally missed the mark. They didn\u2019t involve patients and patient organisations properly. They didn\u2019t involve healthcare professionals properly. They didn\u2019t involve industry properly. And everyone agreed the Therapeutic Products Act was not fit for purpose; we know that from the submissions on the repeal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EWhat we are going to do in ACT and as part of the Government is actually get in place safe, effective, and efficient regulations that will actually get medical technologies to New Zealand faster and quicker. Just like our record investment in Pharmac\u2014yes, that was this Government that delivered that; getting the latest medicines to New Zealanders\u2014we\u2019re going to do the same in the area of medical technologies. We\u2019re actually going to talk to people, we\u2019re actually going to find out how to do it, and we\u2019re actually going to make sure that what we are getting is the best medical technologies. In addition, today, we\u2019re doing something great by allowing our wonderful natural product exporters to actually get on, export the products, and make this country some money. This is a brilliant day. ACT is very happy to be supporting this bill; we are again delivering real change for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022 data-id=\u00228c5c9644b9654ac18210fb26d238979b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c5c9644b9654ac18210fb26d238979b\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Look, this is a very simple repeal bill. Most of the Health Committee submitters who came in were in favour of the repeal. The original bill, the Therapeutic Products Act (TPA), was not fit for purpose. That was clear in the feedback. We are going to repeal this bill. Noting that the TPA has not commenced yet\u2014it doesn\u2019t commence until 1 September 2026\u2014it is a simple repeal. This Government will provide enduring legislation to make sure that we get this right. I commend this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022 data-id=\u00226a154a80d53a45f8a1fd603e0905f0ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a154a80d53a45f8a1fd603e0905f0ea\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E As my colleagues have previously said, we oppose vehemently the repeal of this Therapeutic Products Act 2023. People actually deserve medical products that are safe. They should be able to trust that when they are patients and when they are getting medical care, that the products that are used are regulated. I would say that, actually, patients probably assume that there\u2019s good regulation in place if products are being used on them, especially here in Aotearoa where we have so much and we have the ability to actually have a world-class healthcare system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EIf this Act is repealed, it leaves Kiwis without a safety net and it leaves people without adequate safeguards that the medical products used here are fit for purpose and won\u2019t be harmful. It\u2019s really concerning that when this repeal goes through, we\u2019re going to be relying on an Act that is decades\u2014decades\u2014old. It really speaks to\u2014if we\u2019re to take the k\u014Drero from the other side\u2014this potentially well-meaning but flip-flop society, where we are actually just not on the fast track to anywhere except 1981. I think that that is super-concerning for us, because we just want to have laws that actually make sense out there outside of this Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EThe Therapeutic Products Act, which my colleagues across the House want to repeal, was worked on for over 15 years across successive Governments, and now that pathway has just been slashed. We are, like I said, on a fast track back to 1981. I think that it\u2019s important that we think about the huge number of medical treatments and advancements and devices that are on the market now that will not have the protections in place that patients need and deserve. Regulation isn\u2019t about banning medicines. It\u2019s about having an up-to-date and modern healthcare system, which is completely achievable if we prioritise the people of New Zealand and patients who need our care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003ELook, we have heard from patients who have raised serious concerns that out-of-date laws are leaving them with lifelong pain and injury, and it\u2019s just not good enough. We can do better. Patients have told us of the heartbreaking harm caused by surgical mesh that has been dangerous and should not have been used. Every single surgical mesh case is heartbreaking and shocking. Now, former Green MP Jan Logie worked really hard to bring this to light and to be a strong voice and advocate for women who had been harmed in these medical procedures. She stood here in this House and said, \u201CI will be the voice for you here.\u201D She also said, \u201CHarm caused by mesh can be life changing and include chronic pain, infections, and organ damage. People want to know that the health system is going to make them better, not add further to the pain and suffering they\u2019ve already experienced.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003ENow, we know that the Government is repealing this and are saying, \u201CHey, we don\u2019t have anything to show you. We can\u2019t show you the plan of where we\u2019re going. But you know what? It\u2019s OK. Let\u2019s go back to 1981.\u201D We oppose the repeal of this Act. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022 data-id=\u0022349b0257224748dfac7ac441f6b2afd9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022349b0257224748dfac7ac441f6b2afd9\u0022\u003EDr HAMISH CAMPBELL (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support the Therapeutic Products Act Repeal Bill. The Therapeutic Products Act 2023 has raised significant concerns amongst our community health sector and industry. Therefore, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b8bfa9bf81b4d968b9c11880abfe439\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Rachel Brooking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a18e29839b014e48b743944b8ff73ffd\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u00225f1cb3eeb4c5471eb94a517ad274a940\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f1cb3eeb4c5471eb94a517ad274a940\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Sorry. Thank you, Mr Speaker. The split call there was my issue. I\u2019m delighted to now be speaking after what has been a long week\u2014still on Tuesday, 10 December, despite the rest of the country being on Friday afternoon\u2014speaking here on the Therapeutic Products Act Repeal Bill and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022604e969e578f4c0681b152cb097b3f43\u0022\u003ECameron Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: They finished the joinery this afternoon; they\u2019re still going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c79ce62102b545aabdc2ae784e77bbcd\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: I can hardly hear myself speak, for whatever is happening over there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI\u2019m happy now to be talking about the Therapeutic Products Act (TPA); sad, of course, that it\u2019s being repealed. Why am I sad about that? Well, that would be because this is a very inefficient way to go about lawmaking. We know\u2014we have heard from previous speakers\u2014that there is law around medicines and it\u2019s from 1981. For 15 years, there was work trying to modernise that law. Why was there work trying to modernise a law from 1981? Well, that is likely to be because there have been many advances in the medical world since 1981. There are many more medical devices. There is new medical equipment. There is stem cell and CAR T therapy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThese are all things that were not around or not very well advanced in 1981 when\u00A0that legislation was done. And, of course, we all know that we\u2019ve recently had a COVID emergency that also doesn\u2019t\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227de8da68a3341858f05678dbb403ae9\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Do they know that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284fca34f233b40dcabd6a0b1945730dc\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: No idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022267b88d54b9c41f7940c734a73244afa\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Oh! My colleagues are asking if the other side of the House remembers the COVID emergency, and if we listen to them and hear, we would think not. No, no, it doesn\u2019t seem to\u2014not sure that they want any sort of regulation or have any memory of that, but it is handy to have some laws on hand before an emergency happens rather than after it. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abea815af86945d28c2404ee4655c063\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: If you could keep it down. It\u2019s important; the nation is listening. Doc\u2014the Hon Rachel Brooking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022626068c6e3eb41968113c4a86032a973\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Not doctor\u2014there we go. The TPA, as we\u2019ve heard, covered a wide range of issues, and we know that some of these issues were unpopular. It seems that what that side of the House has done is responded to a very noisy group of people who were concerned about some particular aspects of that Act, and so they\u2019re repealing the whole thing. They\u2019re not dealing with the specific concerns at all; they are just getting rid of the whole thing, when there could have been discreet amendments to deal with the issues that they campaigned on and were concerned about\u2014but no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWe know that this TPA legislation relied heavily on secondary legislation\u2014that is,\u00A0specific regulations. I\u2019ve heard the Associate Minister of Health the Hon Casey Costello say in one of her contributions that the work that was being done into developing those regulations will be continued, so I will take this opportunity to say to the Minister that I hope that she does use a robust process and doesn\u2019t undo that 15 years of work that we have heard about. We\u2019ve heard about it in a number of speeches and I\u2019m sure that the Health Committee heard about it as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWe also know that that regulation that was going to be made under the TPA would have been proportionate to risk. I often hear members from the other side of the House talking about how everything should be risk-based, particularly if it comes to undoing what they call red tape around environmental protections, but here there seems to be no interest in acknowledging that those regulations would have been proportionate to the risk of that medicine or device, which means if it was a low-risk natural health product, it would have had very different regulatory requirements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWe know that harm can occur without regulations and that there are gaps in the current law, hence the 15 years trying to fix that. We see in the select committee report that \u201COther submitters were concerned that the repeal of the TPA may leave gaps in the regulation of medical devices within New Zealand, as the TPA introduced regulations not already covered in the Medicines Act.\u201D Then the select committee report goes on to a different issue, and this is around Medsafe, which I know some members opposite will be interested in; that was that many submitters \u201Cpointed out issues with the current regime for the regulation of medicines, medical devices, and NHPs.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThis included\u2014and we\u2019ve heard about that direct consumer advertising from my colleague\u2014\u201CSection 29 of the Medicines Act allows doctors to request the supply of a medicine that has not been approved by Medsafe. Submitters told us that, under the Medicines Act, nurse practitioners have all the prescribing powers of doctors, with the exception of being able to supply unapproved medicines. The TPA would have allowed the prescribing powers to be expanded, subject to the approval of the Nursing Council and the Minister of Health. Submitters suggested that this could be amended in future legislation.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWe know that there were many good things about the Therapeutic Products Act (TPA). The TPA was needed. This Government has just decided to do what they do best. What is that? That is taking this country backwards by simply being exceptionally lazy and just repealing things willy-nilly. Now, we\u2019ve seen that in the resource management space. About this time last year, I was standing here with the repeal of both the Spatial Planning Act and the Natural and Built Environment Act. What happened is that the Government promised, \u201CYou, Labour\u201D\u2014sorry, not you, Mr Speaker, but the Labour Party\u2014\u201Cwhen in Government, did a lot of work to reform the Resource Management Act, and had a long process and then two separate bills, and would have made it so much more efficient with the Spatial Planning Act and the Natural and Built Environment Act. It would have taken all the heat out of the consent process and put it into the plans and the national direction\u2014but, no.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThe Government said, \u201CWe\u2019re going to throw this out, and we\u2019re going to replace it one day. But, first of all, we\u2019re just going to do these little bits and pieces here and there. Oh, and do you know what else we\u2019re going to do? We\u2019re just going to totally override the existing regime that we\u2019ve gone back to, which everybody agrees doesn\u2019t work. We\u2019ll just do a fast-track. We\u2019ll just say, \u2018Oh, hey, our friends over here who want to do a particular project that we\u2019ve got on to a schedule of the bill, let\u2019s just do that and ignore the legislation that we know we don\u2019t like.\u2019 We won\u2019t fix it. We won\u2019t fix that legislation. We\u2019ll talk about some future point that we might fix it.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWe can all sit here and agree that the Medicines Act 1981 is out of date. The Resource Management Act 1991 is out of date. But what are we going to do about it? We\u2019re going to complain about it! We\u2019re going to say any\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b4a34d97e78464d8521bfa57ee52aff\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re going to fix it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a901a540b3b4b7bb37104640e74af8a\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I\u2019m hearing from the other side that they\u2019re going to fix it. We haven\u2019t seen any fixes in any of these things. All that\u2019s happening here is it\u2019s a lazy repeal and these empty promises of fixing things. It\u2019s hard to fix things. It takes a lot of intellectual heft to fix things. You have to talk to a wide range of people, not just your mates. You\u2019ve got to talk to everybody about how to fix difficult regulatory issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022633785ead30f43708e2b819929f601ea\u0022\u003EHon Nicole McKee\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s something Labour never did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248ecbe78db3c42f8b0561976ada18346\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I think I heard someone say that Labour never talked to people about reform. That is very interesting, given the very full select committee processes that happened, that had exposure drafts to bills, that had panels with reports that went around and were talked to everybody about. But that is not what we see with this Government\u2014no. They just go, \u201COh, we don\u2019t like this issue. There\u2019s some political heat in it. I know, we\u2019ll repeal it.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00227509e121473f41af867c0dce83fda031\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227509e121473f41af867c0dce83fda031\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the next call, I know that everybody\u2019s excited to be still here, but if I could ask people to contain the chatter so that we can hear the speeches more clearly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022 data-id=\u00221ec7e437e3854aba92712b22af44c90f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ec7e437e3854aba92712b22af44c90f\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you. Unlike that side of the House, the MPs on this side of the House listen to people. We work for people. That is why we are repealing this Therapeutic Products Act. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u0022510c61b043ee492eaa39f1e3292622ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022510c61b043ee492eaa39f1e3292622ed\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I just was getting really excited then and thought that we were about to get an actual contribution to share with us what they actually heard from those people that they say they have talked to. But, no, we just got another 10-second contribution. The members on the other side of the House say that they have done this, but they have given us no evidence of them actually doing that in any of their contributions this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI spoke earlier, in the second reading of this bill, and I want to say that after the very short committee stage of this bill, none of the concerns that I had when I spoke just a short time ago have been allayed\u2014not a single one of them. I go back and make my points that this repeal is taking us backwards. This Government just cuts and repeals and has no plan for us to discuss and debate. They are taking us back to 1981. They think the system that is there is fine, that they can leave it in place for an undetermined amount of time because we didn\u2019t hear when the replacement is going to come. I didn\u2019t hear a good argument for why the issues that they say are in this legislation couldn\u2019t have been worked out in secondary legislation, with industry, in the regulations in the time that is still available\u2014\u201CNope, we\u2019ll just repeal it and we will say that we\u2019re going to do something, but we will not commit to the time frame for that.\u201D Let me guess, they\u2019ll probably say, \u201Cbefore the next election\u201D\u2014we will all wait until then and probably not see it. We didn\u2019t get any clearer information on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EOn a very serious note\u2014those points were serious, but on a more serious note\u2014what I think we\u2019re seeing here is the addressing of industry concerns over that of stakeholders and patients. You are giving them certainty, but it is at the cost of the certainty that stakeholders and patients needed. This is a political gesture, and I\u2019m going to guess that the ACT Party and the New Zealand First Party are going to race to claim that they have delivered for their voters, because it is both of them who are saying that it was their negotiation skills that got this particular bill over the line. It is all about political expediency and not truly that of the issues that needed to be addressed from outdated legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EIn my earlier contribution, I was talking to the disappointment, frustration, and anger of patient advocates, particularly around surgical mesh. As I said, I was a former Associate Minister of Health who had that issue as part of my portfolio. An advocate in that space, Carmel Berry said, \u201CI\u2019m horrified. After so many years of developing and rewriting the act and getting it through \u2026 shame on them.\u201D She is horrified that it is being repealed when it was only signed into law last July.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003ENow, the Ministry of Health last year paused the use of surgical mesh to fix incontinence until safeguards are in place, including a register and more training for surgeons, \u201CBut [Carmel] Berry said there was now nothing to stop another tragedy like mesh, which has so far cost ACC more than $32.5m in claims.\u201D I did not hear the entire time I have been in the House for this bill anything from the other side that gives me any confidence that that solution is coming any time soon. This Government is rushing through this repeal under urgency with no plan to replace it. That leaves everybody, including industry friends, with uncertainty. I am so concerned about the patients, like the advocates that have spoken up, who are concerned about the repeal of this bill. I do not commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u0022af70de7aab4c4b09a678bd0a1baa306c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af70de7aab4c4b09a678bd0a1baa306c\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This is not taking us anywhere; this is repealing the Therapeutic Products Act, which has not yet come into effect and has no impact on anyone. I commend this repeal bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022610897d6bb8c4c0ca798e7ea1e3f4ab3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022610897d6bb8c4c0ca798e7ea1e3f4ab3\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Mr Speaker. Well, it\u2019s almost like d\u00E9j\u00E0 vu. For my last contribution at the second reading, I followed Dr Weenink. This time around, she\u2019s added an extra couple of sentences. It\u2019s really disappointing to hear that Government members on their benches are not taking calls, as part of this process, to actually explain to the public of Aotearoa New Zealand why this is a good idea. It\u2019s almost like they\u2019re handing around a little laminated card that says, \u201CI commend this bill to the House.\u201D, and then they sit down. They\u2019ve got to that particular part in the week where it\u2019s \u201CWho can say it the quickest and sit down?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll tell you what, once my colleague the Hon Willow-Jean Prime resumed her seat, I knew I was ready to go, because there was no chance they were going to make a full call\u2014no chance at all. At least they\u2019ve been consistent. We oppose this particular bill on this side of the House, and it\u2019s almost like we have been talking to vacant seats of individuals over there, because the contributions that have been made from other members on this side of the House have been very considered, very erudite, and are really raising some of the issues of concern, and there is absolutely nothing but crickets and a little bit of chipper over that side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that, as colleagues have said, will be taking New Zealand backwards. Why? Because the very Act that is currently in place is one that was seeking to replace, I guess, what 1981 looked like in some respects\u2014technology, innovation, medical approaches, medical devices, all of these sorts of things. Members on that side want to take us back to that, because they have not identified an alternative instead. What they have said is that we\u2019re simply going to wipe the slate clean and we\u2019re going to start again in 1981\u2014we\u2019re going to start again in 1981\u2014instead of acknowledging that there has been huge innovative progress, there have been huge opportunities around technological advancement and development. They\u2019re not interested in that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis bill, which is a repeal bill, basically seeks to get rid of 15 years\u2019 worth of work in this Parliament\u2014as has been said, 15 years of work from Governments of different colours, not just a Government of a particular shade, shall we say. This is a Government now that wants to wipe all that away and say, \u201CDo you know what? We\u2019re not going to actually have any replacement opportunity in place.\u201D The Associate Minister of Health the Hon Casey Costello, in her response, talked about international opportunities. International opportunities are important\u2014absolutely they\u2019re important\u2014but so is protecting the health and the wellbeing of citizens and residents of this country. That is exactly what this bill is going to compromise. It is going to compromise the health and safety of anyone who wishes to engage with anything that relates to health.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ac035daf2e74a5ead5e35039d28e0ad\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s no change\u2014no change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252f7b281daac4fecafe398d233351db2\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: Now, Mr Stephenson says, \u201CNo change.\u201D Well, if you don\u2019t need to change, why do you need this bill? If you don\u2019t need to change, why do you need this bill? What we have in place is a suite of work that is under way to address some of the real concerns and issues that have been raised. We\u2019ve heard a little bit about surgical mesh. There was a response, granted, from the Minister around that, acknowledging that that was an issue\u2014nothing from Government members, even though it has been raised on more than one occasion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis is simply winding back the clock, and some would say, if you kind of looked at a parallel universe, it would be much earlier than 1981. There is always the opportunity for certainty, and what this Government is doing is quite the opposite. It is actually providing uncertainty in the area of health and wellbeing and of community safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard a wee bit this afternoon about the direct consumer approach\u2014the need for consumer protections\u2014and we\u2019ve all heard \u201CCall within the next 30 minutes and get two for free.\u201D The thing is, when it\u2019s about consumer engagement and protections, what is so wrong with that? Well, members on this side of the House would say, \u201CNothing.\u201D What members opposite are saying is \u201CActually, we\u2019re not interested in addressing some of the protections for consumers when it comes to natural health supplements and the like. We don\u2019t want to have a regulatory system that\u2019s centralised to allow one port of call, so to speak, instead of all the different types of ad hoc legislation, whether they be primary or regulation through secondary legislation.\u201D Instead, this is a Government that wants to remove all of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI want to thank my colleague the Hon Rachel Brooking for picking up the point again about nurse practitioners. I touched on that in my second reading contribution. Not a single member of the Government since that point has identified the crucial role that nurse practitioners play. The Health Committee, granted, did contain that in its report, but the members opposite didn\u2019t bother to talk about the impact that this would have\u2014where this has been called for from communities of interest, where this particular bill will, basically, wipe away the opportunity that nurse practitioners have in the community to prescribe medicines that doctors would be able to but with two additional criteria: one, that there\u2019s certification or some form of approval process through the Nursing Council, and the other is that the Minister of Health directly would need to approve it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EMembers opposite, having had that information presented to them, are not interested in that. That\u2019s not changing their minds. They don\u2019t care about the role that nurse practitioners have. They don\u2019t care about the communities in Aotearoa New Zealand that have called out for nurse practitioners to be able to do that as part of the work they do. Then, again, they don\u2019t support the front-line workers in our health sector anyway, so it really comes as no surprise to me or to other members of this House on this side, because that\u2019s their approach. Even though it\u2019s pointed out to them, they\u2019re not interested in that at all. This is what this bill does: it strips away opportunities for those hard-working members in our community in the health sector to do exactly that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI proposed an Amendment Paper that the Minister didn\u2019t like, so she voted it down, which is disappointing on a Friday afternoon, but that\u2019s her prerogative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c303874b50354b1196cd689f3a4d823b\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a Tuesday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c43a2a5b8e34d3fa7114ba52c3e6fd9\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: It is a Tuesday, yeah. For those that are actually tuning in, you might be wondering why the member from the Government\u2019s saying that it\u2019s Tuesday. It\u2019s Friday 13th and we\u2019re still here at Parliament, but the clock stops on the day that urgency starts, so it\u2019s been a long, long four days here. I think it\u2019s actually been longer than the National and Government members were actually anticipating, but that\u2019s all right\u2014they like to get an easy ride from time to time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe proposal that I had in the tabled amendment was to, effectively, draw out to a 12-month period when this particular bill would come into effect. There was nothing to be afraid of around that. I mean, the Minister herself said that there was some work going on, but she didn\u2019t really outline the details of that, and that just goes to the fact that this is a Government that is very happy to say, \u201CYou know what, we don\u2019t like that. Why don\u2019t we like it? Well, because as part of our election campaign, we promised to a smaller group of individuals that we need to deliver on this. We\u2019ve delivered, tick the box, don\u2019t really care\u2014move on.\u201D Well, that might be the particular purview of this particular Government, but it is not the purview of members on this side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d74e1f6f4394e66b1a88afaad689ba6\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Not how it\u2019s meant to work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225526e88eead840e78e40c1c51be7f6e8\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: It is not how it is meant to work. This is an unfortunate bill. It is an unfortunate bill that members opposite have not been able to elaborate on as to their reasons for supporting this. They\u2019ve had ample opportunities. When New Zealanders reflect on the parliamentary record as to why this Government decided to repeal a piece of legislation and they have a look, there\u2019s not going to be much actually there for them to go on, because the Government simply has not made out the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis is another example of the Government wanting to take this country backwards with its approach. All they needed to do was simply amend the existing legislation. Wasn\u2019t that hard, wasn\u2019t that bad. They simply needed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262728337cf04452fa212383f9b47a681\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: We did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298ab698725b349028e8d4094a2e320ad\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, members opposite, they mustn\u2019t know. They said, \u201CWe did, we did.\u201D That\u2019s what a repeal bill is about: you\u2019re actually not amending it; you\u2019re getting rid of it. That\u2019s what the word \u201Crepeal\u201D actually means.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe reason why they\u2019re not actually amending it is because they don\u2019t have anything to put in and replace to amend it, so the easiest option for them is to simply wipe it all out and repeal it, and that\u2019s exactly what they are going to do. They do not know what they are going to do. They cannot provide certainty for those in our community that want certainty when it comes to engaging supplements, but also when it comes to accessing medical devices of a whole range there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis is a dumb decision, and instead of addressing these concerns that they might have through an easy option by way of regulation or secondary legislation, they are deciding to simply throw it all out with everything else. Unfortunately, we\u2019re not surprised on this side of the House. It is a dumb piece of legislation, it is the wrong thing to do, and so we will continue to oppose it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba7266153a92485a94e6ef562e5adc7c\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: To the last minute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022414a2554c41b410fbee1ed0298080db1\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: To the very last second. On that basis, I do not commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u00221761aeea52f646699510e27102a4a484\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221761aeea52f646699510e27102a4a484\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This bill provides certainty to the industry, to consumers, and to practitioners, much like the legislative agenda this week. This week, the Government\u2019s delivered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fa2b5c12c5d48538c9f5bcddc43374d\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022f085c2d99d21441e90152122309d55db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f085c2d99d21441e90152122309d55db\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Let\u2019s see whose\u2014Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00229fd3e1b1ed3f4560a75e2c45cdf3e810\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229fd3e1b1ed3f4560a75e2c45cdf3e810\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. After all, we are looking at a call that was for the Opposition. I thank all of the members who had a last jolt of energy on this final stretch. Again, thank you all for being a part of this very long\u2014I would say over 80 hours\u201410\u00A0December.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, in terms of this bill, one of the things that we wanted to check on with the Associate Minister of Health the Hon Casey Costello during the committee stage is what plan is there going forward and what plan has been done up until this stage. I think one of the things\u2014and the Minister did explain and sort of enlighten the committee on a few elements, but one of the things that we don\u2019t know for certain and there is no certainty on at this stage is the fact that we don\u2019t know what the time line is for this new bill. That has been the concern of some of the submitters. It is at least good to know from the Minister that work on this bill has, basically, stopped almost immediately. Again, if the Government really wanted to, this was something that they could have introduced as early as last year, but that wasn\u2019t the case and there wasn\u2019t sufficient time during the committee stage to tease out why that was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI do find it concerning that countless hours and months of work to produce 441 clauses, four schedules\u2014in total, 257 pages of legislation\u2014was able to be struck down and repealed with a sweep of one sentence in clause 3 of this bill. It is so easy for anyone\u2014not just for the Government\u2014to undo months and years of work. We know the public talks about wasteful spending\u2014and the Government talks about wasteful spending. I ask: isn\u2019t this an example of wasteful spending, of undoing everything that others are doing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThere is something that was very interesting that the Minister mentioned during the committee stage, and that is in Amendment Paper 239, and particularly with regard to export potentials. Again, what we haven\u2019t heard and what hasn\u2019t been produced is that that might be the intent but, again, that was new. That wasn\u2019t simply a repeal of what is in the Therapeutic Products Act. That is something that the Minister wanted to do, and we have not seen or got confirmed evidence or information or advice from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, and New Zealand Trade and Enterprise, on the feasibility of any of this. I am concerned that when we do add in new amendments like this, when we do repeal legislation like this, that other countries have moved on and we are stuck in the 1980s and we have not moved on with the times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019ve seen\u2014and I mentioned before\u2014with some of the latest concerns from New Zealand -owned or New Zealand - based or New Zealand - backed natural health products and the interactions with a US free-trade agreement, it does cause us concern whether we are potentially looking at tougher sanctions or higher non-tariff barriers from certain countries that this legislation would not have factored in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EOverall, like I said in the beginning, I am concerned. We have had a number of bills this week; every single one of them was to undo what the previous Government has done. Every single one of them is a case of tit for tat, and this is no different. Truly, if we want what is best for Aotearoa and for the people of Aotearoa, we should be looking at things that are going to be good for everyone and working in a direction that is going to be good for everyone. But I don\u2019t get a sense of that from any of the bills that we have been debating on this year. So I will not commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ee424f25e72c45bf9ead51462db5402b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Therapeutic Products Repeal Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 37\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 22; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000730\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2d8b7b9de06469684b85296ca43b41b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2d8b7b9de06469684b85296ca43b41b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, this Tuesday has come to an end\u2014it has become a Friday. The House stands adjourned until Tuesday, 17 December 2024. Kia pai te mutunga wiki\u2014have a great weekend. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202412103429191b0d3c4b03bf8aaf1533ad6cf9000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 4.48 p.m. (Friday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"