"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022becb9a15a27c4ad79b155ff1bf5a5987\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 13 FEBRUARY 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226d7f32b774c544409bf92ed5cce41d10\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 13 FEBRUARY 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d687ff67f0c345059cba11fdbf2a98d4\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aa6ad0cdce78419a804812ec961362db\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb42d9e680f34db79f6a4535cd83152a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb42d9e680f34db79f6a4535cd83152a\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Assistant Speaker):\u003C/span\u003E Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022757807b2a5944ba7b91c3684e738a792\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Rulings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022168c03ec32084ae3b67c61ba0fb142a5\u0022\u003EMember Conduct\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022adf7818ccef04c98b881704e50d3bdc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022adf7818ccef04c98b881704e50d3bdc1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, yesterday, the Leader of the Opposition raised with me the possibility of a connection between the actions of MPs outside the House and the prescriptive rules of the Standing Orders which relate to parliamentary proceedings. I received a letter from Tangi Utikere asking if Standing Order 418(t) might apply in this case\u2014that case being the circumstances under which David Seymour advanced a Land Rover up several steps at Parliament, despite being told by organisers that they did not have permission to do so, and ultimately withdrawing once a security officer told them that it was the Speaker\u2019s decision. May I thank the many email correspondents who\u2019ve encouraged me to take a range of actions, none of which are permissible. I suggest they accept that the Standing Orders don\u2019t currently anticipate responses to this situation. This was the case in 2003 and it hasn\u2019t changed since then. Criminal law applies now, as it did then. But I note that when a prosecution was brought against Shane Ardern in 2003, the court said it was a waste of time and the proceedings were not carried on with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIf the Standing Orders are to be broadened to give the Speaker wider authority over MPs\u2019 activities that are not connected with the proceedings of Parliament, then it should be the Standing Orders Committee that fixes or first examines those possibilities and considers any implications from those changes that might enable some of what has been requested. If those changes are agreed by the committee, then it would be for the House to enact. I am in an interesting position of many expecting an action without a sound basis for that to be undertaken. I\u2019m interested in the application of Standing Orders that relate to the parliamentary proceedings and MP privilege as it relates to those proceedings. In my opinion, it\u2019s not possible to prescribe broad enough orders that achieve both the protection of privilege and prosecution of stupid. This may be something the Standing Orders Committee is more able to clearly define. Accordingly, I\u2019ll seek to convene that committee for the sitting week of 3 to 7 March. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe claim that Standing Order 418(t) might be applicable in this case does not pass scrutiny. It relates to orders made by resolution of the House, not administrative decisions of the Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002226a8758dba454ba88a8880efbf789ada\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f609e464c8e94fe687166850e7642d61\u0022\u003EMental Health\u2014Funding Reallocation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9ae08e43d75407fb6ea22e11b492a26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9ae08e43d75407fb6ea22e11b492a26\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I\u2019ve received a letter from Ingrid Leary seeking to debate under Standing Order 399 the decision by the Minister for Mental Health to reallocate funding to the mental health innovation fund. This is a particular case of recent occurrence for which there is ministerial responsibility. The big hurdle to overcome is whether the matter warrants setting aside the business of the House. Ministers sometimes make decisions that surprise officials and do not always act in accordance with official advice. It is a Minister\u2019s right to do so, and they answer to the House for their decisions. I do not think the application makes out a case for this matter being sufficiently urgent to give it priority over the business on the Order Paper. The application is declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ffa18da18abd4ed991c3c21cf209a117\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f201e4e104294e69bf1ba3887396e859\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002246768dae09b845b9851c625adf441a67\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246768dae09b845b9851c625adf441a67\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Next week, the House will consider all remaining stages of the Te Pire m\u014D \u014C-R\u0101kau, Te Pae o Maumahara/\u014C-R\u0101kau Remembrance Bill, the committee stage of the Overseas Investment (Build-to-rent and Similar Rental Developments) Amendment Bill, and the second reading of the Sentencing (Reform) Amendment Bill. And Wednesday will be the first members\u2019 day of the year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a9cd1cda1fbd4896a85b94e65c45eb6b\u0022\u003EPETITIONS, PAPERS, SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022684c3e50a6a2422c98d5b79228156f91\u0022\u003EPETITIONS, PAPERS, SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd7bc91b4426434197fb54870a1b82d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd7bc91b4426434197fb54870a1b82d4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No petitions have been delivered for the Clerk to present. I present the report of the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment entitled Estimate of environmental expenditure 2024/25: Method and results. That paper is published under the authority of the House. A select committee report has been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002206e3fa27edd74a82979d2cd2bd851aae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206e3fa27edd74a82979d2cd2bd851aae\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Report of the Regulations Review Committee on the Complaints about the Midwifery Scope of Practice and Qualifications Notice 2024.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002274abc6de376140bca71b2dac11b4926d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274abc6de376140bca71b2dac11b4926d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The report is set down for consideration. The Clerk has been informed of the introduction of a bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea52565a25c7432a8260dfec392626e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea52565a25c7432a8260dfec392626e3\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Employment Relations (Collective Agreements in Triangular Relationships) Amendment Bill, introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002280d5f27d1fff49509e0241bbdcbccafa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280d5f27d1fff49509e0241bbdcbccafa\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That bill is set down for first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002298c258b93e294d5a8b5334ac845c2e4b\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e08ac25e6278494d9a30a6c6d86e6c8f\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fc5ad15c2c564473bf5fbfc4ec6088e3\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014M\u0101ori Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022 data-id=\u00226c90a869ab8742b98b05fb6d9c042f20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c90a869ab8742b98b05fb6d9c042f20\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. Taku p\u0101tai\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b774161bcc14dfc9902ab5106368fe2\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Tell the truth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fdfd4a2098f470185d0dc5779f05038\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on\u2014just a minute. Normally, if we were in the middle of yesterday, the member who just called out would be going. Do not speak while a question is being asked, and restrain any interjections that people might think are necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ead9a79038b46db8e54847792bcd476\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c29bc70a33574523b8412f5c9b813ccf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on. We\u2019ve got a point of order. Sorry, T\u0101kuta. We\u2019ll just hear the point of order from the Hon Kieran McAnulty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e410ce3f35de4925bbf3e965f8fc4728\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Apologies to the member. Is it the case that your clear directions to the House are cleared at the start of each sitting day so that they don\u2019t apply with the same weight that they were given? My concern is that you made it very clear to the House yesterday that if members were going to disregard your clear decisions and instructions and call out during questions and points of order, you would be forced to take action. My concern in this instance is that not only was that disregarded, the content of the interruption\u2014accusing a member of being untruthful\u2014is surely in itself unparliamentary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c341be649dd944b594913707ab2b098e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: To be quite honest with you, I didn\u2019t pick up that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4a533f1b3224e569b7b1032665d56f7\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: It was, \u201CTell the truth.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac65d633517f48be8afa84e62774aeb3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Well, that makes it somewhat difficult. I\u2019m not going to retrospectively look at things but will most certainly be very much vigilant from this point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae6aefa09a5c4904bbfc3029492d3c3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae6aefa09a5c4904bbfc3029492d3c3f\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tonga)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for M\u0101ori Development: Does he believe this Government is upholding its obligations to M\u0101ori under Te Tiriti o Waitangi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u00225c0532e9c126466393fb965d4a48c80a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c0532e9c126466393fb965d4a48c80a\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E \u0100na, yes. In the past week alone, we\u2019ve seen many examples of this Government upholding the responsibilities under Te Tiriti o Waitangi\u2014for example, Minister Goldsmith attending Kororipo P\u0101 to encourage the return of Kororipo P\u0101 to Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia as a catalyst for the Ng\u0101puhi settlement; Minister Stanford announcing structured literacy and numeracy materials in te reo M\u0101ori out at Panguru; Minister Mitchell and Minister Watts attending M\u0101tihetihe Marae, out at Mitimiti, to activate further funding for a climate change pilot project; Minister Jones announcing various Regional Infrastructure Fund support for marae up in Northland; Minister Seymour and other Ministers, old and new, from many sides of this House, attending the reopening of Tipene in Bombay and announcing it as a charter school. As k\u0101wana, we won\u2019t always agree with rangatira throughout the motu. We could all do better. But the key is to keep engaging respectfully, in the same waka, in a timely manner, to uphold the responsibilities of Te Tiriti o Waitangi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc630984cd4448a5bb4fb0cc84e4d6d3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just let me be clear that interjection from the Government side is not immune to the same response that would come should it become excessive from the other side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b3a49ceb0d94d2d95697156b77d5107\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister believe that we would be having the current debate around the Treaty principles bill if elected members of Parliament were required to undergo elementary, basic history and Te Tiriti training?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e290367dacd4f5d8c28761379f47ede\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: I am absolutely encouraging of all members, and in fact all New\u00A0Zealanders, to have a very basic and fundamental understanding of Te Tiriti o Waitangi, the Treaty of Waitangi, a bilingual and bicultural document, which is the founding document of this great nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224b71187d6f54e26878671958fa49eeb\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister\u2019s party is truly opposed to the Treaty principles bill, why are his colleagues questioning and badgering submitters who oppose the bill during the select committee process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222232b80aa940419ba8c074c461482a9c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. This member is asking by way of a question a challenge to the select committee process, and he should be stopped in his tracks and asked to inform himself how this House and select committees are properly run.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022355d1a8c62ac4ad3ab53b88d79dbd303\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I was about to say something when the member leapt to his feet, quite rightly. The point I would make is that the Minister is not responsible for what happens in select committee, nor is he responsible to the House for activities of his party; he is part of a coalition Government. You might want, without loss, to rephrase the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d815efa5fbc4064a72ee5d9817053d2\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: OK, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. If the Minister\u2019s party is opposed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b03839091e2749e49867bad1f756fd46\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, you can\u2019t start like that. He\u2019s got no responsibility in this House for his party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022136fa0fd2b4142e4af59d7c51e93006e\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: Kei te pai, ka haere tonu. [That\u2019s OK, I\u2019ll continue.] Can he guarantee te iwi M\u0101ori that the proposed changes to the Public Works Act won\u2019t result in more M\u0101ori land being confiscated by the Crown?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd52fd17b1e24716a30a89c9576fa848\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: As I have announced in this Whare on many occasions, I can guarantee that my quest, and my parliamentary experiences now and into the future, is to ensure equality of opportunity and equal citizenship and to ensure that Te Tiriti o Waitangi is recognised as the founding document of this nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7222c11e04b4cc18be199eb9ed8397c\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: Would he support the establishment of a parliamentary commissioner for Te Tiriti o Waitangi to ensure that all future legislation is compliant with Te Tiriti o Waitangi; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227af53ee9dfcc4af5ab689f8174b9a9ab\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: I am absolutely committed to ensure I support Minister Goldsmith and others in this House to progress the settlements for various many historical Treaty claims. That is what I am absolutely supportive of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d6889bf80b8a435b81996851b3cb75bb\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Infrastructure\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022650538987efd40e0aaad26503be25f56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022650538987efd40e0aaad26503be25f56\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Infrastructure: What recent announcements has he made about going for growth in infrastructure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00227ea0159cae76428db264d5e174add14c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ea0159cae76428db264d5e174add14c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister for Infrastructure):\u003C/span\u003E On Monday, the Prime Minister and I announced we\u2019ll be hosting an international investment summit in March, with about a hundred of the world\u2019s highest-profile investors in super funds, construction companies, engineers, and business leaders coming. At the summit, we will be showing that New Zealand is a country worth partnering with and is indeed open for business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f20b0b383d2443ea9fd95bd6049fa5a8\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: What is the purpose of the investment summit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b8607c66af6467c8fe75ca594c8c50f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: As has been a theme this year so far, we have to go for growth, because it\u2019s growth that provides the higher living standards that New Zealanders need. That means investment. That means being welcoming of foreign investment into New Zealand. It means saying yes to investment, innovation, ambition, and growth. We will be showcasing upcoming infrastructure opportunities for partnership and investment, as well as the Government\u2019s long-term infrastructure pipeline, and that pipeline is very important to give stability and certainty so that people have confidence in investing in New Zealand. We\u2019ll also be highlighting some changes to policies, regulation, and legislation to make it easier to invest here, and we\u2019ve already seen some of the changes under way by my good colleague Erica Stanford and other Ministers already, and there\u2019s more to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af71adc3d6524ee3a65435174a8bf56f\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: What other sectors will be involved in the summit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211934061447f438ea9e1d40cb74d9919\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not all about the Government. Actually, it\u2019s ambitious Kiwi businesses and iwi who are looking for better opportunities for them and New Zealanders. So the summit will be covering some growth sectors that the Government is excited about: renewable energy, advanced transportation, cleantech future fuels, and, of course\u2014and Minister Jones will be pleased about this\u2014the resources sector and the aquaculture sector, which, unlike other members in this House, the Government sees as real areas for potential future growth. We\u2019re also very excited that there will be a real feature on the M\u0101ori economy at the summit, and we have some exciting opportunities lined up there as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6bd4aa578ec4458818a5031017a05fb\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: Why does New Zealand so desperately need this summit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1082059f1a74e7d8b4edc5d396708f8\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, saying no is easy. Actually, what New Zealand needs to do is say yes to more things. Our 30-year failure to embrace opportunities has produced anaemic levels of growth and lower productivity growth than we need to drive higher living standards. So this summit is about putting down a marker to the rest of the world and saying that New Zealand is here, we have fantastic opportunities here across infrastructure, across energy, across aquaculture, across resources, and we are here and ready to do business with the rest of the world, and we\u2019re going to start saying yes to these opportunities so we can grow our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f333739154b48388fe3c257dce8b938\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: What are the benefits of allowing public-private partnerships (PPPs) to finance infrastructure, as set out in the ACT-National coalition agreement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee6b1742eeb142b2ab565051a16ddfd4\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there\u2019s quite a lot of myth-making about PPPs. PPPs are run of the mill procurement methods that help attract smart capital, discipline, and expertise to New Zealand projects. And I note that despite a bit of criticism from members opposite in the past, they very quietly rolled over a few education and school public-private partnerships during their time in Government because they were working so successfully. And that\u2019s the point, is that they drive better performance from our assets and they have strong contractual incentives and requirements for on-time delivery service levels and asset maintenance. They\u2019re not always the answer. They won\u2019t always be the right thing to do but they\u2019re a part of a procurement tool kit, and we\u2019re determined to use them when appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002220dd196f89c8476abcf1f0dcf49b767c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022497ff742e71c4c3f82a29a347c06a1b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022497ff742e71c4c3f82a29a347c06a1b8\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00226331ad3db202481a853d1abf44ba4bf4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226331ad3db202481a853d1abf44ba4bf4\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: With the usual caveats, providing the premise is made in the same and providing the facts were made in the same, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fca503c770c4c26bde82daf4fb716e6\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does driving a car up the steps of Parliament, after repeatedly being told that was prohibited, meet the standards that are expected of an incoming Deputy Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2774843c4f14754bdc3c901c0f58a05\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I think the answer to that question lies with the person three over to your right in the Speaker\u2019s Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a93887ff21a04bd8914768d26f00d380\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4a1bfb8606c4d9d835ee58f9937e0a6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s OK. It\u2019s one of those days. I forgot what I was doing before, too. So, yeah, by all means, point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffaf9948960b4d08801c4c22b419d01c\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: I actually think that, as Prime Minister, the Prime Minister has responsibility for all of his Cabinet Ministers, including his Deputy Prime Minister and including his incoming Deputy Prime Minister. My question was to the Prime Minister on whether or not he thought it was an acceptable standard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcc374bcc0f8487e95b3effe7a9639f3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, OK. Ask the question again. We did establish that boundary yesterday. Please, ask the question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225be1efa43aa0421b9539c2f44cca6981\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does driving a car up the steps of Parliament, after repeatedly being told that was prohibited, meet the standards that are expected of an incoming Deputy Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282c955500484415e943c1a4245c674e2\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: All the comments the Prime Minister wishes to make on this matter have been made. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b076c48a77af473a8bd8f2e292746d78\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll have silence for the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c787874ac09a4880b84d36d11cb86140\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does advocating for a potential suspect in a murder investigation, thereby undermining the justice system\u2019s independence, meet the standards that are expected of an incoming Deputy Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a50305760d542e985ae67ed595f60eb\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The reality is that the judgment being made on that standard is set against the actions of a sworn Minister of the Crown. In this case, they weren\u2019t; they were made by a backbench member of Parliament, and the standards and criteria are massively different. I suggest you ask Willie Jackson about that because he\u2019d be very knowledgable about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b665c277b7854bf3b9c8319168e12c5f\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does directing a child sexual abuse survivor to speak with the ACT Party\u2019s lawyer, rather than the police, after being abused by the ACT Party\u2019s then president, meet the standards that are expected of an incoming Deputy Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b60d98fb9769405e925392fae7684153\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: It has been pointed out that the proper place of complaint lay elsewhere. But, you know, people have their own experience, they all learn, and not everybody\u2019s a lawyer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b1af7c2c8c149739dbd5f91c04d7f14\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Will he loosen the rules to allow foreign non-residents to buy existing homes in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225ecdec3f2af4e4e9a89b9538142dec4\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The reality is that that is not a matter that\u2019s currently on the present agenda. The last time that happened, of course, was in 2002, when the Labour Party did precisely that in their free-trade deal with Singapore.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e670aa57eb04d388ee4324528e70ae4\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Winston Peters that \u201CEnglish should be a basic requirement of anyone coming into the country, unless they are genuine refugees\u201D, or does he agree with Erica Stanford that it\u2019s insulting to expect that of migrants who are \u201Cworth millions of dollars\u201D and that \u201Cwe don\u2019t need them to speak English\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c47d0659eca48c3babcac323002ebcc\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the reality is that those two Ministers were making statements about different matters. It\u2019s an awful conflict when you have to choose between two geniuses!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e6c3527c9ed44f299d2bb0090f74f72\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Is New Zealand\u2019s worst ever rating on Transparency International\u2019s Corruption Perceptions Index a result of perceived interference from the tobacco industry, the mining industry, the fishing industry, the real estate industry, the childcare industry, the pharmaceutical industry, or all of the above?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c94207f0f04e4c929bfd2dc4801e6490\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: With the greatest respect, and this is a more personal answer, the reality is that over many years the New Zealand rating was unjustified. Smack in the middle of the wine-box inquiry and the BNZ inquiry and every other fraud I saw, we were still rating number one and we\u2019ve only slipped to number four.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8ba68ae51054ffaa69d6b7d2fae1af9\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, sir. Thank you, sir. Quite regularly on a Thursday, I raise the point of order about the requirement for Ministers answering on behalf of other Ministers to make that clear in their answers. Now, that hasn\u2019t always been appreciated, and it certainly hasn\u2019t always been followed. But when the Deputy Prime Minister is answering on behalf of the Prime Minister, and then includes content which is quite clearly related to him personally\u2014in fact, he stated that himself\u2014this is where it becomes unclear. So, moving forward, I think, for the benefit of the House, it should be a requirement for Ministers, when answering on behalf of others, to state that clearly in their answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de944aec78a54c26a3d09a12db3c57b6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I think that\u2019s a fair thing. I think, though, as I understand it, the position has been\u2014and I\u2019ve been in that position\u2014that when someone is answering questions in the House addressed to the Prime Minister, they answer those as the Prime Minister. I think the confusion comes here where there was a step away from that, in that last answer. Do you want to hear the answer again or rephrase it a different way, perhaps?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d56228d96c34a08adb83c878ad3f5d4\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to that, sir, it\u2019s my understanding that when the Prime Minister is out of the country and when the Deputy Prime Minister is answering questions, they are then the Acting Prime Minister. But when the Prime Minister is still in the country, they are answering on the Prime Minister\u2019s behalf. Clearly, there\u2019s some misunderstanding there, and any clarity you could provide next week would be appreciated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bbae27a6cd34794b31adfa31284fe9d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Most certainly. I speak from my own experience of some years back, but I\u2019ll certainly clarify that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d7e5a7f43614943b587733aa7a80c4e\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208614c63374b4b479f8fdd14bc6b2a76\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Are you comfortable with those answers? Do you have another question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e8590eff9b54c23a03d14c32dfdb319\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Is New Zealand\u2019s worst ever rating on Transparency International\u2019s Corruption Perceptions Index a result of perceived interference from the tobacco industry, the mining industry, the fishing industry, the real estate industry, the childcare industry, the pharmaceutical industry, or all of the above?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226405e26c1e674351b89020f98675ee19\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The reality is that New Zealand is at number four at the present moment. The fishing industry has had the most comprehensive control regime set around it, announced the other day, and I\u2019m shocked it got so little publicity, being the most comprehensive plan, and supported massively by people of this country who are concerned about the fishing industry. As for the tobacco industry, if they\u2019re complaining massively about the changes, then they can hardly be guilty of any corruption\u2014only someone who doesn\u2019t understand how the world works would make those allegations now. The other thing I want to say is, when we were at the top of the so-called index, then the sharemarket crashed, of course\u2014a period that member might remember\u2014and of the world\u2019s worst 10 we had the sixth, and of the world\u2019s worst, we had all four. So here we go again with a judgment that was artificial all along, and rather than make these proud boasts, I think our country should be doing better to be a more corruption-free land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da905fc955eb4206b9aa7323df9a7409\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Just seeking some guidance from you. I waited till the end of the line of questioning so as not to interrupt my colleague. But given one of the answers that we heard on behalf of the Prime Minister referencing the wine box, I\u2019m just seeking your guidance: does this mean that the Prime Minister is now subject to a line of questioning in this House around the wine box, given he has, essentially, given an answer that was about the wine-box inquiry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cf133eebd5d4e3686fc01771c6e778e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Prime Minister can be asked about anything that occurs during his time here. I think the problem today is that the Rt Hon Winston Peters should have said at the start that he was answering on behalf of the Prime Minister, and then I\u2019d make the point that Ministers can\u2019t make personal statements\u2014it\u2019s probably a choice of words and sort of a pedantic point, but not something I\u2019d get too hung up on. But I would say the Opposition is never constrained in putting questions down on the sheet, other than by what is accepted by the Clerk\u2019s office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc29fd1249874de0bfaed32a6e428aff\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Just a further point of clarification on the point of order, Mr Speaker. Absolutely accept your ruling, and not challenging that, but in terms of ministerial responsibility, it would be hard to say that our current Prime Minister had any ministerial responsibility for the wine-box inquiry, but now he is on record in this House giving an answer that references that inquiry. My question is: does that now mean that that is a line of questioning the Opposition can take with the Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e9af200351d4d248954ec530a2616c3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Look, that would be for the Opposition to decide whether they wanted to start talking about something that happened in the 1980s. It\u2019s their choice. But what I can\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cec1064acbfb47409a1a879b18568aca\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s just a strange situation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b868bb4d2624e09a9ba48d69731bd92\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me, I\u2019m in the middle of speaking. Those statements were made on behalf of the Prime Minister in reference to a question about Transparency International\u2019s view of New Zealand. It\u2019s not unreasonable for a Minister, or the Prime Minister, or anyone acting for him, to reference historical events in support of their claim. Now, if the Opposition think that that means they should spend some of their questions in the weeks ahead digging into the depths of the wine-box inquiry, then that\u2019s something that they are welcome to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221de0d068286849ed8af03d08336c86f0\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u002234f108260e57480d9c108661101fc779\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234f108260e57480d9c108661101fc779\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What recent announcements has she made about the new traffic light system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8cf3fb9ae824d4b9721419993f6b34c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8cf3fb9ae824d4b9721419993f6b34c\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, I announced the addition of two non-financial sanctions to the traffic light system. Non-financial sanctions allow job seekers who fail to meet obligations for the first time to continue receiving their full benefit payments while still being required to complete activities such as the new Report Job Search, where job seekers must perform a minimum of three job-search activities every week for four weeks and report this to the Ministry of Social Development, and upskilling, where job seekers must attend and participate in employment-related training for at least five hours a week over a four-week period. It\u2019s important that beneficiaries who can work are taking reasonable steps to re-enter the workforce or remain work-ready, and that consequences exist for those who don\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4212d8b6a494b2bab77d9592d6c5f47\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government introducing these sanctions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f66926cc03b64a40bad9892b3a232837\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: This Government believes that a stronger economy depends on more people being employed. By introducing these sanctions, we aim to reduce welfare dependency and increase the number of Kiwis entering the workforce and then sharing in the benefits of economic growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c79f6571ce4644318af46f22ff4d95c9\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: What is the goal of adding these sanctions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a78351e3a5549fe8a00661aaf63cac8\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: The goal is to hold beneficiaries accountable and ensure that they are making reasonable efforts to seek employment. The sanctions also aim to help individuals gain skills that will improve their chances of finding work so that they can be part of New Zealand\u2019s economic growth. It also means, and I remind the House, that job seekers can retain the full amount of their benefit instead of it being reduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fba79f7c3d146d3a1736df5998d4cdc\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: How has the traffic light system been tracking?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cc649b62ce54dc09b4a20a68ff82911\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: There have been some really positive early results. Between July and December, more than 33,000 people moved off the jobseeker benefit into work, a 22 percent increase compared to the same period in 2023. It\u2019s also positive to see that 98.6\u00A0percent of clients are complying with their obligations, while only 0.4 percent are in orange and 1 percent in red.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bb444add198049bd98fc1f3eca7d39ba\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022df5ab342c79b4c9b8892024cd5906030\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df5ab342c79b4c9b8892024cd5906030\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she agree with the Salvation Army\u2019s State of the Nation 2025 report that \u201CDuring 2024, access to hardship grants was reducing as Work and Income tightened eligibility for assistance, at the same time as the number of children living in families needing this assistance was increasing\u201D; if not, what are her expectations for how applications for hardship assistance are assessed and granted?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002239e50927747d487fa3c82183e3e2d319\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239e50927747d487fa3c82183e3e2d319\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Eligibility requirements for food and other special needs grants haven\u2019t changed, and I have no plans to change them. As I said in the House yesterday, we have seen a reduction in applications, so I would encourage people who need help to get in touch with the Ministry of Social Development (MSD), as there is assistance available. Times remain tough due to the cost of living crisis we inherited, and while we\u2019ve worked hard to reduce inflation from 7.3\u00A0percent to 2.2\u00A0percent, and that\u2019s helping to bring costs down and put more money in people\u2019s pockets, we do recognise that some are still feeling the pain of the cost of living and high inflation. As interest rates continue to reduce and the benefits of this start to flow through, more New Zealanders will feel the positive impact of the hard work we are putting in. This will grow the economy and help more people into work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1767bf7e1f34175925291bc4492889a\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does she disagree with the Salvation Army, who, in their report, stated that \u201Caccess to hardship assistance was [decreasing]\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f983915f2a1d4daa9c89e715309db0d4\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in my primary answer, eligibility requirements have not changed, but I recognise that demand and the number of applications has declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223430cb8c6b2d47b29832bd5f6b2a3548\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Is it acceptable for any family in need of immediate emergency assistance to be declined a hardship grant at the time they need it; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a61ac23626d4a34aa39940963df138a\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, I recognise that these times are incredibly challenging for some families, whether they\u2019re in work or whether they are on welfare, but the eligibility requirements for food and other special needs grants have not changed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256fd743515b94d1298ce7ec26528707d\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does she expect Work and Income to adhere to case law that special needs grants can be provided for situations of ongoing need and not just one-off situations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253f1127c28994f878425ad9d79bc7477\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: The front-line MSD staff do an incredible job, and they have been responding to people in need. As I said, the eligibility requirements haven\u2019t changed, and where there is the need for flexibility, they apply that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a32ccc0ee1e342ffa9c21aec680542c6\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: What is the explanation for the increase in declines of hardship assistance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231a621c85f2a417d8bf5f7786e9ba721\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t have details on the declines. As I said in the House yesterday, I am concerned about the fact that the number of applications for hardship has gone down. And I would say, as I said in the House yesterday, to anyone who is finding it incredibly difficult in this tail end of the cost of living crisis, I would encourage them to go into MSD and seek assistance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fa257a6bbfb44999047c706fcd0fb1a\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: What does she say to Sonya Cameron, the food security manager at the Salvation Army, who said that \u201CThe government\u2019s turning down people for food, they\u2019re sending them to foodbanks. Now they\u2019re not funding foodbanks. Foodbanks around the country are either overstretched like ourselves or they\u2019re starting to close down.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213ef0689165447c49f2697ce5b0688f8\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll reiterate to the House that the direct funding of food banks only came into effect during the COVID period. So, despite there being time-limited funding that would have meant there would be no ongoing funding for food banks, our Government decided to extend that in recognition of the fact that many households were very challenged by the cost of living crisis that we had inherited, and that is why there is funding available today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221756d29475614cd8b635a686138166a1\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd3cb75bc50043148cb651d30bc31d9c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd3cb75bc50043148cb651d30bc31d9c\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: How many people are currently unemployed compared to this time last year? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002278df5ea4088c4ccfbbf7735ced867a6a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278df5ea4088c4ccfbbf7735ced867a6a\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Unemployment has been rising since 2021. In December 2023, 123,000 people were unemployed in New Zealand, and in December 2024, this figure sat at 156,000, in line with Treasury forecasts. Unemployment is always one of the last things to come after a recession, and, unfortunately, we\u2019ve inherited a low-growth economy where unemployment was always forecast to increase above 5 percent. That\u2019s why we have created a more active, proactive welfare system to support more job seekers into work, and it\u2019s also why our Government is relentlessly focused on growth, so that the economy allows for businesses to have the confidence to hire staff and create better-paying jobs so that New Zealanders can share in the benefits of growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267f60984655e4cdab0c4afc5ef0d1156\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Minister: has she discussed with Minister Paul Goldsmith why there is still no plan to support the media sector when hundreds of jobs have been lost in the sector in the past 12 months, and, if not, why not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c2c41cf05c8417d8f6f89e52a98d79f\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: As that member will be aware, in a recession, unfortunately, there are jobs that are lost across a range of industries, and I\u2019m very confident in the Minister for Media and Communications\u2019 plan in that sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022608fd40170104990b65be436fa4ffc59\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was very specific to the Minister in terms of has she spoken with Minister Goldsmith about a plan with regards to the media. She\u2019s in charge of employment. I would expect an answer, or even addressing the question, rather than just a waffle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022191a0c747de64affa0ee48a487a881c6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, with all due respect, I think it was addressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6fb1ff9b4fa4af783f42fa40cd71bc2\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Speaking to the point of order, I just would have thought that if the member wanted to ask a question about the media portfolio, he should ask a question to me, rather than to my colleague. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f5c9bc2c6304369b3f74a0a304d5338\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that may well be the Minister\u2019s opinion, but it\u2019s not a point of order. The question was addressed. Ask another question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c668e1907c6340b8a2de5260bf207c7f\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can I ask the Minister: what is her plan for the sacked Te Whatu Ora worker\u2014Health New Zealand\u2014who has been reported to have said that \u201CThe public sector has been gutted, so every job that I apply for has hundreds if not thousands of applicants.\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2e3363eb6df4b6bb0b46945ce78fd6a\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said previously, for any individuals who lose their jobs as a result of the economic conditions that we have inherited, it\u2019s incredibly challenging. In order to address the cost of living and to get inflation down, we had to address excessive Government spending, so a rebalancing has been required, and that means that working Kiwis aren\u2019t suffering on a daily basis in the struggle to put food on their tables. So I accept that it\u2019s challenging for any New Zealander who\u2019s lost their job, which is why our Government is focused on going for growth and ensuring that there are more jobs created across New Zealand for them to move into. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022263805d5888e435eae52aa24e58ce3ea\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: As background on this question and for the public information, is unemployment\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285961d2d57ba4c49974b69ff15b626c0\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not a question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b94cb46414fd441aa35662084b43a74d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if you waited for five seconds, you\u2019ll find it is a question, all right? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f68b91bf0d3b47e6a45e6af5793c194c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member does know the rules about not speaking while a question is being asked. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbfb83e0f0f746feaed62a614470703c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, precisely. Thank you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea2e64045ed4463faf921e3c53c5c6a9\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: We were talking to each other, sir. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ec7d072cd724df2bf38982970b1a7c3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I know\u2014and the rest of the room. Carry on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e13341310c9441fb8efb93c9511b94d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is unemployment lower today than Treasury was forecasting when Labour left office, or is it higher? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239bcf294c2ad4311a01f38f3a676df2a\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: It is bang on what the forecast said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e6893ec61474d7e97ac00d5f216ee69\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Minister: why did she scrap targeted population employment plans when M\u0101ori and Pacific unemployment is double that of the general unemployment rate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ba93e81f87240a3961c3cf122eb600f\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019ve got good news for that member. When I referred to the 33,000 people that have cancelled their jobseeker benefit because they found work, disproportionately, in a positive way, Pasifika job seekers exited at a rate of 30 percent higher than the same time a year ago. So our work and our welfare reactivation is having great results for Pasifika job seekers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022253a6bd4c28b433bbc22a5b9351123cb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question, the Rt Hon Winston Peters\u2014[Interruption] Wait, excuse me! Mr Peters, just please wait until the House goes quiet. And there you have it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228beffcf0c57042d9a2ba31ac3b17bd03\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Minister, is it not a fact that the Treasury forecast was, as Labour left office, that this unemployment rate right now would be 5.3 percent, when in fact it\u2019s down to 5.1 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200dcd631e03e409cafd078e6f9661025\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: The employment forecasts by Treasury had always anticipated the unemployment rate would continue to rise, unfortunately, and they expected it would rise\u00A0beyond where it is right now. Although it would be nice to say the pain has ended, it hasn\u2019t. Unfortunately, we have inherited a path and a forecast of higher unemployment, and that affects every New Zealander.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223e6c51e10654204b12af7dd6ff97a01\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Minister: does she agree with Deputy Prime Minister, Winston Peters, who told workers at the Kinleith Mill last year that Kinleith Mill is the lifeblood of the Waikato and that targeted Government intervention is sometimes necessary to ensure the survival of a business and a community, and, if so, can the workers of Kinleith Mill have confidence that their jobs and livelihoods are secure, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219a8083dc65043c791786e1123208729\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I always agree with the Deputy Prime Minister. And I know very well how important the Kinleith employment is in that community, and that is why, as a Government, we are looking at options.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e8a622a8fc904c508fb18065e10d3071\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Agriculture\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022 data-id=\u00229e637a20c43a42358638dca656a9449c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e637a20c43a42358638dca656a9449c\u0022\u003ESUZE REDMAYNE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Agriculture: What is the Government doing to support the New Zealand red meat sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u002296136a15815a46da98e1d8a754d6ea1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296136a15815a46da98e1d8a754d6ea1f\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E Agriculture is the backbone of our economy, and this week for National Lamb Day, we celebrated 143 years since the first shipment of lamb left New Zealand shores. The Government acknowledges the hard work and resilience of our farmers, processors, and exporters, whose dedication ensures that New Zealand\u2019s red meat sector remains world leading and ready to grow. You see, our farmers are world best, with food and fibre exports set to reach $56.9 billion this year, with sheep and beef farmers alone contributing the equivalent of $3,300 for every Kiwi household. I\u2019d like to invite all members of the House to join me in thanking sheep and beef farmers for their significant contribution to New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3534e6e98f54fc2b806ad01f3d19008\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: What else is the Government doing to make it easier to farm?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2f434cdbe68481ead1ec162ad6b21e2\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: The Government and the team of agricultural Ministers are laser focused on getting costs down and returning more value to the farm gate. We\u2019re committed to supporting farmers, and already we\u2019ve begun reforming freshwater regulations to ensure they\u2019re practical and deliver results. We\u2019ve slashed red tape that burdens farmers and just adds cost to their businesses. We addressed land-use changes, including rules around full farm-to-forest conversions. We\u2019ve invested $400 million over four years in emissions-reduction technology that will increase production, not decrease it. We\u2019ve passed legislation to remove agriculture from the emissions trading scheme so that we can work constructively with the rural community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f04f86de101b4141b73d701344b3c7bc\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Government increasing farm-gate returns?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae31f49c314244439c452e64c487ce48\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, our farmers produce the safest, highest-quality red meat in the world. Last year, we announced a partnership with the red meat sector to co-invest $8\u00A0million in the Taste Pure Nature campaign. This campaign aims to make New Zealand beef and lamb the number one imported meat choice in the Chinese market by focusing on the superior nutritional qualities of our high-quality, grass-fed red meat. We\u2019ve also concluded two high-quality trade deals with the United Arab Emirates and the Gulf Cooperation Council countries last year, which will eliminate 99 percent of all tariffs over time, including sheep and beef meat exports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5da94bc5f4d456091f90bd97c29329a\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: How is supporting farmers key to economic growth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebabfbbb0f5e4ea68cadb0be4c115ff1\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Agricultural exports contribute the equivalent of $10,600 for every Kiwi. Without this contribution, as a country, we would be poorer. Farmers have done it tough over the last few years, but as farm confidence is improving, there are real signs of green shoots ahead. Already we\u2019ve seen a lift in sheep meat prices over recent months with December lamb prices exceeding the five-year average, record high cattle prices, and rising demand for key red meat markets that could see an additional $1 billion in export revenue for our farms this year. The way to celebrate the hard work of our sheep farmers is for everybody to eat more lamb.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229774584d1f994b75b3d0104f1b19f6fb\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Environment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022 data-id=\u0022911ef5c7b1df408d900d1b78f02ccbfa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022911ef5c7b1df408d900d1b78f02ccbfa\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: Does she expect environmental protection to improve or get worse under her tenure as Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002252cd93e51355454691fde5d0d811a1b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002252cd93e51355454691fde5d0d811a1b1\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for the Environment: The Government\u2019s committed to improving New Zealand\u2019s economy while also improving the environment. It\u2019s possible to do both. Our current planning system is the worst of all worlds. It makes it hard to do development, it stifles growth, and it also doesn\u2019t protect the environment very well at all. We are dissatisfied with the status quo and that is why we are reforming and, in fact, replacing the Resource Management Act (RMA) based on a regime based on the enjoyment of property rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ebea9023f884a108da2733d84eedd2f\u0022\u003ELan Pham\u003C/span\u003E: Is she concerned about the unprecedented step her Government is taking in allowing individuals and companies to cause significant adverse effects in our most vulnerable and polluted waterways through the resource management amendment bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229604452119646a3947efdc09b133ba1\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228362dce84cdc4506a7735b350eaecdb3\u0022\u003ELan Pham\u003C/span\u003E: Does she still stand by her statement that \u201Cthe balance [has] swung too far towards environmental protection at the cost of not being able to get things done.\u201D, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aaaa8acc9fcc4c0f8b221b3819dee176\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, on behalf of the Minister, yes. If the member wants to think about a simple illustration of that, I invite the member to reflect on the attempted establishment of a McDonalds in W\u0101naka, which has gone to extraordinary hearings, public submissions, and has been turned down. Meanwhile, there are developments up and down this country tied up in acres and acres of red and green tape who are just trying to do something quite simple\u2014use their land to build stuff. We have a simple view on this side of the House, which is that it should be easier to make use of your property to provide jobs and growth for you and your wh\u0101nau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225914b79bd57640089eda5739df8cd5e7\u0022\u003ELan Pham\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment correct that in the Minister\u2019s response to an Official Information Act request, she admitted that she was \u201Cnot provided any specific advice or evidence from any agency\u201D to support her statement about so-called environmental imbalance, and that \u201Cthe information requested does not exist.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bad66d865c504810be598f7d7c40c1bf\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, on behalf of the Minister, it\u2019s difficult for me to comment about an Official Information Act request that I haven\u2019t seen or, indeed, the response from\u00A0the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment. I can just give a general comment, which is that, on behalf of the Minister, I have great respect for the Parliamentary Commissioner for\u00A0the Environment. He makes a very valuable contribution to public debate, but it doesn\u2019t mean I always agree with him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0656b61b54948978bd3b8f9a5119a5b\u0022\u003ELan Pham\u003C/span\u003E: How can New Zealanders expect environmental protection to improve when\u00A0she has not brought one piece of legislation to this House to protect the environment, has made significant cuts to staff and funding of her agencies, and has disregarded the very evidence which could enable her to make better decisions in actually protecting the environment? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022971ba9ea815a4a0b9e40b77943fae09c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, I take issue with many of those comments. Firstly, we have the Hauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana Marine Protection Bill, which my good colleague the Hon Tama Potaka is proceeding through the House. The second point I would make is that, yes, there have been quite substantial staff reductions at the Ministry for the Environment, but in the last year the Ministry for the Environment has managed to lead a cross-agency team and establish the fast-track regime\u2014the one-stop shop. We have already done one RMA amendment bill and there is a second amendment bill before the Parliament right now, before the select committee. So what it shows is that with some focused leadership and a clear plan of action, Government agencies can achieve an awful lot, even without bloated staff numbers. The third point I\u2019d make is this\u2014and it\u2019s the point I made in the debate last night\u2014which is that wealthy countries look after the environment better. That is a simple fact. So if we can grow our economy and grow our national prosperity, we can do all sorts of amazing things for our biodiversity and for our endangered species. Countries that are poor trash the environment; wealthy countries look after it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214caebd78bcd414dacd2281e780e9219\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And we\u2019ll just go for more concise answers, I think. Carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a10ba58843414614af5898abcb0c76ac\u0022\u003ELan Pham\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement that \u201CWhat we do know is that an environmental problem deferred today can be both an environmental liability and a fiscal risk that will have to be faced in the future.\u201D, and, if so, what message does she have for Kiwis about the liabilities that she is leaving for the public and future generations to bear the cost?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221618e2e2c0124882a255f93a901049d5\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, I mean, in a general sense I agree, of course. It\u2019s why we\u2019re very focused on growing the economy, as I said before, so that we have more resources that can be spent on protecting our natural landscapes, improving our biodiversity, and looking after our endangered species. It is more difficult to do those things when you don\u2019t have a growing economy. And it is possible to get the balance right between utilising our extraordinary, abundant plethora of natural resources that we are endowed with in New Zealand. And actually utilising those natural resources means we can look after the ones we really want to protect, like our kea and our k\u0101k\u0101p\u014D and our kiwi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002247350a72e7264be5b066c84cf05ba146\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Children\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad1f9104cf434a10b82b33bd8a3fefa4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad1f9104cf434a10b82b33bd8a3fefa4\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Children: How many participants in the military-style academy programme have reoffended since participating, and how many are currently in youth justice facilities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022 data-id=\u0022912c739d74e04ac3b07accafaea5c037\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022912c739d74e04ac3b07accafaea5c037\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E I acknowledge the interest in the military-style academy pilot and I am also aware of the impact of the intense focus on these nine young people and their families and wh\u0101nau. I have considered the fact that this is a very small group of young people and they will be identifiable within their communities and I do not believe it is in the public interest to provide constant updates on their activities. However, in considering the balance between these young people\u2019s privacy and their wellbeing and public interest, I can confirm that all nine of the young people are still engaged in the pilot. They are in a range of placements, including some in a youth justice residence. I also remind the member that there is a significant difference between alleged reoffending and proven reoffending, and that these matters could be subject to court proceedings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c9a4c922d0e406da8a6efe540444e69\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: How is it not in the public interest that eight of the 10 pilot military-style academy participants have allegedly reoffended, and that six are apparently back in youth justice facilities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c99575d053f24fe694498c4fcf696198\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not sure where that member has got those numbers from and I can neither confirm nor deny those numbers, because I am not going to constantly drag these young people down when they have come to this programme voluntarily to make their lives better. Parliament is not here to destroy young people\u2019s lives; Parliament is here to support them and get behind them to succeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cce359d42c044856a16e196fcb9eb595\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: How is it not in the public interest to provide information when she is spending over $30 million of public money on military-style academies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229541b05bc6e14d3591370cf8e5f59fe2\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: We tried to be as open and transparent as possible when it came to this pilot programme, but then it became very apparent that the Opposition used that opportunity to drag these young people through the mud with venom, trying to make them be unsuccessful. Instead of asking questions that were relevant to their successes, it was always about whether they were going to fail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022091d3d502b394cecaad0c8e3e4cd3986\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, sir. The Speakers\u2019 rulings are really clear when\u00A0it\u00A0comes to the issue of public interest, and it\u2019s spelled out really clearly that it is a high bar to meet. It is not unreasonable for a member to ask a Minister to justify their decision as to whether to use that provision not to answer a question. Given that it is a reasonable question, it shouldn\u2019t be used\u2014like you\u2019ve applied previously, with a straightforward and reasonable question\u2014as an opportunity to make a political attack, as the answer was in that particular question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269fff8927cff4dc18bca65776c5c910b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that would be fair, but I\u2019m listening also to the questions, so I\u2019ve got to say, I always get confused by the\u2014I don\u2019t know what the correct grammatical term is, but by saying, \u201CHow is it not\u201D, I think it\u2019s a difficult way to put a construct on the rest of the question; in this case, \u201CHow is it not in the interest of the public to get particular information or use particular information?\u201D The answer that was given by Minister Chhour was the answer you\u2019d expect from a Minister. I don\u2019t think we\u2019ve been in any particularly difficult circumstances here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d27c3f43dd340cdae6eeb43817cb501\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to that, sir, I agree the initial response was totally fine, but to then go on and use this to try and paint this into something that it is not\u2014it was quite clearly a political point. I take your point about the grammatical structure. We\u2019re of the view that that makes sense, but nevertheless we can disagree on that. But the point remains that it is reasonable for a member to ask a Minister to justify their decision to withhold information on the grounds of public interest as it is a high bar. Explain that, like she did at the start. The rest of that answer shouldn\u2019t have been allowed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022288392f439144c108447714f78660e2f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and one of the difficulties I\u2019ve got at the moment is, despite my enhanced hearing capacity, I\u2019m actually hearing a great deal more of the commentary that\u2019s going behind those answers. And the person asking the question was asking a lot more questions as the answer was being given, and I was actually looking to see what was being said there. So I apologise for missing that, but I make the point that answers by Ministers to questions from the Opposition should not or are not an opportunity for political attack.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba9c757b2dbe4eefaea26ddfcdcde32f\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: How can she say that it isn\u2019t in the public interest to provide information when we\u2019ve had 5,342 submissions on the boot camp bill and Save the Children have a petition demanding that you boot the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238e82fbbe4ba4b358f30db8c3a7a51bf\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I refer to my primary answer, especially around where there is a huge difference between alleged reoffending and proven reoffending. These matters may be before the courts, and we cannot be making these young people\u2019s identities available to the public. It is a small group of people that will be easily identifiable, and we don\u2019t make a habit of talking about youth who are before the courts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af3137ce1b58498db508f44b83b5b33e\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Government push through a bill to enshrine the military-style academy in legislation when it is not working?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c24f8fa6e9ea4060964aa7da3d003aca\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I actually would say it\u2019s too early to say whether the pilot has been a success or not. We are still in the middle of the pilot. That is why we are evaluating its progress and we\u2019ll be releasing the first evaluation shortly. What I would say is evidence tells us that what we were doing was not working. Evidence tells us that youth crime was at an all-time high, and something needed to happen. It would be easy to say no to these young people and say we\u2019re not going to put in the effort, but I am proud to be part of a Government that says, \u201CYes, you\u2019re worth the effort that we are putting into you.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258e6741572b249a0ab8a9ac8e9c8d37f\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: In your own admission, just now, that you\u2019re not sure whether it\u2019s working or not, why would you then persist with such a bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290505a3165f942b6ab7a3162139c6ba8\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I think I just answered that. We can\u2019t afford to do nothing. The evidence tells us that youth crime was at an all-time high, and we needed to do something different. I was saddened when I heard that youth justice was being used as a holding pen before Corrections, so we need to do something better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227e3df668456f4c959410c9e75ec6dee4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Commerce and Consumer Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u002278e2bdf4205b4aaf9831af6819ef68a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278e2bdf4205b4aaf9831af6819ef68a9\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs: What steps has the Government recently announced to improve competition?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u00220a619c16cf2a4f9ea9a7aae579f59083\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a619c16cf2a4f9ea9a7aae579f59083\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E In December last year, I launched an ambitious review of competition settings. The reason for\u00A0doing this is that New Zealand lags behind many other countries when it comes to competition. This has led to low productivity, limited choice, and higher prices for Kiwis.\u00A0The first component includes a fundamental review of the Commerce Act to see whether merger settings are appropriate. The second element is that I\u2019ve commissioned an independent group led by Dame Paula Rebstock to look at the governance structures of the Commerce Commission to ensure it has sufficient commercial focus and is fit for purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022450cc141b9ca41c58a0e0b25712f5db9\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the review of competition so critical right now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8ad86ca5f4644b48a0df85815ce0d58\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: The competition settings in the Commerce Act haven\u2019t been significantly reviewed for more than 20 years. Over that time, market conditions have changed, with many sectors becoming more concentrated. We haven\u2019t kept up with the change, and Kiwis have suffered. It\u2019s vital that we review our competition laws to make sure that we don\u2019t keep doing the same thing, leading to future market concentration in other sectors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a29dc3c682d456ea3108c9578c97349\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: What will the Minister focus on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a6a2033ebc54814a823063cc2d8f777\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: Within the next few months, I intend to make decisions on future merger settings, new code-making powers, and anti-competitive conduct, all with the aim of giving consumers more choice and better prices. Mergers are part of the economic landscape and often lead to better outcomes. However, the balancing act is to ensure that this merger activity can occur, but there is a need to determine at what point it is appropriate for the Commerce Commission to intervene when excessive market power becomes evident or likely to occur.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225426318c55ab482cae090c52913948c5\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: What specific sectors is the Government interested in?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207a5002a9c804c45835211c43a6b668c\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: There is a comprehensive review that will look at lifting the competition across all areas of the economy, but Kiwis are well aware of where they\u2019ve been hit the hardest. As the Minister for Economic Growth announced today, this Government is putting supermarkets on notice. This is an example of a sector where a handful of players have become too dominant because they haven\u2019t had the right settings in place. I look forward to working with the Minister of Economic Growth to drive competition and lower costs in these sectors that matter most to Kiwis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a797e579798b4db9b8d8e4d0042e769c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u00222cfcbe7762054809b84ca0a625ec3e65\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222cfcbe7762054809b84ca0a625ec3e65\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Is he satisfied with the Government\u2019s performance in the health portfolio across the motu?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u00229dba60de6b88401980efaa82bcc9f7fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229dba60de6b88401980efaa82bcc9f7fb\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY (Associate Minister of Health)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Health: Yes. We know that too many Kiwis are waiting too long to be seen at emergency departments, receive first specialist assessments, and have elective surgeries. Our focus is on patients and delivering timely, quality healthcare for all New Zealanders. That\u2019s why we\u2019ve reintroduced health targets, so the system can deliver for patients. Already, we are seeing that our Government\u2019s actions are putting the brakes on the steep decline in delivery seen in recent years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240e2f31a1f1743d49407158c43e0319b\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Is he satisfied that the majority of children with terminal illnesses in this country right now are getting no specialist palliative care, and, if not, why are the two roles working to address this being axed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022597c7a07b59f49e896a19833b472616e\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Our Government\u2019s focus is on patients and ensuring access to timely, quality healthcare for all New Zealanders. Our Government has invested more in health than ever before: a record investment of $16.68 billion. The question in response to children\u2014when you look at when the last National Government was here for immunisation, there was a higher rate of immunisations than now. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226faed428c5614952a02425a1859821de\u0022\u003EHon Phil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4b275b1ce924299a8622578c1012b46\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Phil Twyford. And can I just say, this is a pretty serious topic, so some of the screaming across the House doesn\u2019t\u2014it just diminishes it, in my opinion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f3d6a7a06e04d05ae68c99d91d261e3\u0022\u003EHon Phil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Is it true that in November, half of the shifts in Waitakere Hospital\u2019s cardiac unit and a third of the shifts in the emergency department were below the agreed safe staffing levels?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022080dec1e1de44b1598e7538e58677a02\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister of Health, I don\u2019t have the answer to that. If the member would like to put that in writing, he\u2019ll get an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225336382457544dcab72a1177d9f2ba5c\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Government meeting the urgent health needs of those in the MidCentral region, when 852 people have had their colonoscopies paused and more than 1,600 are waiting far longer than the recommended clinical waiting time for their referral to be considered, putting them at serious risk?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f708851afa348679f3b315388c20d0a\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister of Health, surveillance colonoscopies are a really important tool for the prevention of bowel cancer, and I understand the distress of the community at the delays they are facing to access this procedure if they have a history which indicates they might be at risk of developing bowel cancer. I have been reassured that the initial pause has not impacted any patients who have symptoms of bowel cancer. The pause has been brought in to prioritise those who are unwell so they can be seen quickly. Health New Zealand has advised me that surveillance colonoscopies in MidCentral will definitely recommence from Saturday, 15\u00A0February, now they have the patient pre-work issues sorted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242fb6fd8fef74358be10653d8ad250d5\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: How will Health New Zealand\u2019s plan to cut more than 1,000 roles and pause more than 100 projects in data and digital operations increase the efficiency of Health New Zealand given the result now means plans to automate the maternity booking system will no longer go ahead and bookings will remain in paper form?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225f947937053486eb7c7cf3b231222b4\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Not in your notes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022545d25ec342e454ba47582b2ff6b4910\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Not in my notes\u2014ha, ha! On behalf of the Minister of Health, I\u2019ve been advised that no decisions have been made on final structures, and Health New Zealand is currently considering staff feedback to the change proposal for the data and digital team. I\u2019m informed that Health New Zealand is working through transitional arrangements and how it plans to implement final decisions once these are made. Senior managers are discussing potential impacts and mitigating actions with clinical and regional leadership teams. Most importantly, the National Clinical Quality and Safety Commission will be asked to endorse the mitigations and transitions arrangements to be put in place to ensure patient safety, privacy, and security is not compromised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e728e1eaff049e89b0df02c148a34eb\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: How can he justify cutting $1.4 billion from the health system when people are waiting longer to see their GP, paying more to see their GP, and a practice like Dunedin\u2019s Urgent Doctors and Accident Centre may have to close its day services unless more funding is provided?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266f8e1d3629441fb894cac4eac7e5630\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister of Health, if that member wants to talk about waiting times, under the last National Government 89 percent of Kiwis were waiting six hours in emergency departments. When this coalition Government took office, that was down to 67 percent. When the last National Government saw Kiwis waiting four months for first specialist assessment, 99 percent were being seen in four months. When we took office in this coalition Government, that was down to 66 percent. If we want to look at elective surgeries, under the last National Government 97 percent of Kiwis were being seen within four months. When this coalition Government took office, that was down to 62 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c273a7e745094317a1dacbd13b988b6a\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Speakers\u2019 rulings are really clear that Ministers cannot introduce issues that are of their choosing. The question was very specific about justifying the cuts to the health system and linking to the wait times for GPs and the cost for GPs. The Minister shouldn\u2019t use that as an opportunity to go off and make whatever point he wants outside of the issues raised in the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3757a267fa44752bd50830f2e1b816c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, essentially, you\u2019re right, except that there were two legs to the question. One was\u2014I think the figure mentioned was a billion-dollar cut to the health budget. It\u2019s not unreasonable, then, that a Minister makes some comparisons between what was being achieved for a previous amount as compared to now. But I would ask the Minister to bring it back to the final part of that question, which was around access to GPs. But make it snappy because it\u2019s been going on a while.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a4e984c8fc440ba9fc9092d70f7d6d8\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, this Government\u2019s invested a record $16.68 billion into the health system and we would expect that to drive performance. That\u2019s why we\u2019ve returned these targets\u2014to ensure people have timely access to care, such as GP practices, and that member might want to reflect on why her last Government cancelled the health targets and everything went south.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d564baa40d5458bad9abc7f323e2ad0\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Will all of the money from the settlement between Health New Zealand and the Masterton District Council be ring-fenced solely for the Wairarapa Hospital?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022686146b3e8f84f328159a182eedea4e4\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister of Health, I don\u2019t have that answer. If he\u2019d like to put that in writing, he\u2019ll get a response. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022719c93c62d1546d1a917346cefffe527\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Whilst in normal circumstances that would be a reasonable answer for a Minister answering on behalf of the Minister, in this instance I don\u2019t believe it is. This very question has been posed by numerous people to the Minister and it has not been answered. The very question has been posed to the previous health Minister and it has not been answered. If we are being instructed to put this question in writing with an expectation that it be answered, how can we have faith that it will be when it hasn\u2019t been previously?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212f48a02db664a9ba9783fb0ce9e0e77\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: All right, you\u2019re putting me at a slightly disadvantaged position. Are you telling us that the question has been asked as a question for written answer previously?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2cae4b85ad14c52b48ae62f07599ef7\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Several times, I\u2019m informed by my colleague. I also know that there are media outlets that have asked this very question and it has not been answered. This is the opportunity for us to ask Ministers questions, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d992d6152ff14810810f5aa903cda0db\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is. I think a slightly better answer might be forthcoming from the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ee2e54a523b41538edad728b7a4087a\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. The member asking the question has a legitimate question, but he himself acknowledges, in asking it, that we don\u2019t have the actual Minister of Health here. We have a Minister on behalf of the Minister. Ministers can\u2019t be expected to know every single element of the health portfolio when they are answering on behalf of the substantive Minister, or the real Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c46e48ac9cb4658897bbf104d3998ae\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s\u2014[Interruption] Sorry, I will read that piece of advice\u2014I don\u2019t normally, unfortunately. Well, I don\u2019t really like that advice. [Interruption] Well, basically, the advice is that when the Minister says he doesn\u2019t have the information, that has to be accepted by the questioner. The next part is that if the questioner\u2019s not happy about that, he can complain in writing to the Speaker. So you understand my reticence. But let me just make it clear: it is a very serious topic, and it does get difficult when there are Ministers acting for someone else. I appreciate that a Minister coming in to act will be an associate health Minister and can\u2019t know all of the details. But I would hope, if there is any written question asked following this afternoon, that it\u2019s answered rapidly and with a sound answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0dd373388dd4a1398feb57543f56d8e\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, sir. May I ask it in a different way that the Minister may be in a position to answer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd9566d332e14890b06421b22d2d6a94\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, all right. You might save me a bit of time\u2014go for it, yeah.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259fe706151974e89bcbdc59d55c80641\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: In exchange, I won\u2019t write to you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207b4fded20a14b8d98bc1e927b9bea1c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you\u2019re on, then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c56c3068d1954d37a313688fee5a8a3f\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: In the instance where Health New Zealand settled with the Masterton District Council, with the original claim being up to $90 million for the purpose of addressing the deficiencies in the Masterton hospital building, would it be his expectation that the entire settlement be spent for that purpose only?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0668c6d19a142238a4ed4b63c7c0bc8\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister of Health, I don\u2019t have that answer. If he\u2019d like to put that in writing, it will be answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280bad98829a54818b2af257898a612af\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. How on earth can it be acceptable for the House that a Minister doesn\u2019t understand his own expectation, and a member is invited to write to him so that he has time to understand what his expectation is? Surely, even when acting on behalf of the Minister, they should be in a position to explain to the House what their expectation would be in a clearly outlined situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263f143f4460b47198fe3662fc505594a\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to that point of order, Mr Speaker, I\u2019d just point out the primary question around the Government\u2019s performance in the health portfolio across the country. Now, I accept individual MPs have got up and asked their questions about their respective areas, but if that member wanted to ask a specific question about Masterton, then maybe that could have been in the primary question so that the Minister could be prepared for that. And I suppose that\u2019s the risk he runs when he asks such a broad primary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2e893a35634483991b1ac1541b06d34\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think, actually, when there is a broad question like that, the risk is on the Government, not on the asker of the question. But we\u2019re clearly not going to make any further progress on this as regards to specifics in the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022213b6f0758554408a98e012be3929825\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, sir. The general point in this instance, sir, is that when the question asks what a Minister\u2019s expectations would be, is it genuinely your ruling that saying \u201CI don\u2019t know; write to me.\u201D is an appropriate response?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a54451de6e24c2799db066339ffb0d4\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order. Sir, this is a facile debate. If members want specific answers to specific projects about specific areas in their electorates, they can either ask them as written questions or they can ask them as primary questions on notice. You cannot come down to Parliament and ask a broad, free-ranging question and expect an Associate Minister, who\u2019s not the actual Minister of Health, to answer very specific questions about specific hospitals. It\u2019s just simple logic, and various Speakers have made rulings to that effect. If you want a specific answer, ask a specific question\u2014they haven\u2019t done that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3743bcc1ceb4e22909b035b70eceac9\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to that, sir?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb8fefe3354d441bb76c0755946d29b0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yep.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d13707738632448ca7e534014860128e\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Which is precisely why I rephrased the question, with your permission. Asking whether something specific is going to happen\u2014I accept that when a Minister is answering on behalf of a Minister, they may not be able to do that. That is why I asked, in an instance like this, what would the Minister\u2019s expectation be. He is a health Minister. It is entirely appropriate and reasonable to expect him to explain to the House, in the instance that I outlined, what his expectation would be if that played out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257d84d048f9445da9de8fdab23a0e603\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think you answered, somewhat, your own question there. You can\u2019t ask a Minister answering on behalf of someone else what is the expectation of the Minister, if the question is justified by the fact that it\u2019s an Associate Minister; unfortunately, the question is not addressed to the Associate Minister. So we\u2019re going around in circles here. We\u2019ve got to terminate this fairly quickly. There\u2019s a course of action that you can follow, notwithstanding the suggestion that you might not\u2014it\u2019s open to you, of course. I think we might move\u2014is there another supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278a8b259eba644c4a8a7b8d7e32d1da7\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Yes, there is, sir, but just for absolute\u2014because we have covered a bit of ground here: is it your expectation, in response to this, that the Minister, once receiving this as a written question, actually answers it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e20ffbf330842c5ac852f639de1498c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is always the expectation of any written question, insomuch as it can be answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223b238f7325b46a3ba1d660297655f46\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, sir. How can the Minister have confidence in Lester Levy, given the many shortcomings, some examples of which were provided just now by my colleagues, or will he finally take responsibility for forcing the health system into disarray by significant cuts, with no plan whatsoever to turn it around?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6ffd5ccf0c542c1ac34fb710c55ae5c\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister of Health, I have confidence in the commissioner that he knows this Government\u2019s priorities, and that\u2019s to focus on patients delivering timely, quality healthcare for all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d3ab2cf133d5446ea2bfbdf30f2fd698\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022 data-id=\u0022760dc3f2d4f54250810967aa6b9c98de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022760dc3f2d4f54250810967aa6b9c98de\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Justice: What updates can she provide regarding consultation on the rewrite of the Arms Act 1983?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u00221cf339cb248f42368a0d3936c7120b12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221cf339cb248f42368a0d3936c7120b12\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E The initial consultation on the much-anticipated rewrites of the Arms Act 1983 is off to a strong start, with 577\u00A0submissions received as of today, and the accompanying discussion document has been downloaded 1,758 times, showing that many New Zealanders are taking the opportunity to have their say\u2014an opportunity which they were not afforded in 2019. This Government campaigned on ensuring New Zealanders could have their say on the future of the Arms Act, and we are delivering on that commitment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b03a2c2a693454c802e327ca612fb65\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: What is the specific focus of the consultation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259966e9873e94c50984488f1d27307d1\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: The consultation is primarily focused on gathering the perspectives of New Zealanders to inform Government policy going forward. The discussion document does not present draft policy proposals; instead, it seeks input from New Zealanders before any policies are developed. It is structured around seven key themes, including responsible possession and use, firearms products, and offences and penalties, to guide submitters in sharing their thoughts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290c75649562544b1a1867433932f73f8\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: Where can New Zealanders find the discussion document and other resources to help them with their submissions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220638330934fa457a9893c2914d520fdb\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: The discussion document and other resources available to assist New Zealanders in making a submission are available on the Ministry of Justice website, with translations provided in several languages. The ministry can also send physical copies and documentation upon request. It is vital that New Zealanders engage with these resources to understand what it is within and beyond the scope of the review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262053cfb2d7e49f3bbc2a2e91b9e8786\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: Are there any specific guidelines on how submissions should be structured?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255c0a6e16d0540bfbea7c2c4686bb10c\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: While it is encouraged that submissions address the seven key themes outlined in the discussion document, there is no strict format required. Submitters can focus on the themes or the issues most relevant to their experience, and they are free to omit others. Alternatively, submitters may simply list their views if that is more straightforward for them to do. Submissions close on 28 February. I encourage everyone to take the opportunity to have their say by going to www.justice.govt.nz/firearms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252eae65e14a745e9adfea538cfd5ddeb\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Does she intend to rewrite the findings from the Arms Act review, just as she did with the findings from the Firearms Registry review?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fd3368eab6f40de872a196b1470a6fa\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: I plan on listening to New Zealanders and making sure that their views are heard, because what we have discovered in the past is that they never got that opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002253e66c54a6534acb9815534f1f81ba57\u0022\u003EPrivilege\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229e8d9bdccb254239936cd3c5c0a470a3\u0022\u003EConsideration of Report of Privileges Committee\u2014Conduct of T\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6d217a576044d21bec00efaebac7263\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6d217a576044d21bec00efaebac7263\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Deputy Chairperson of the Privileges Committee):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of the report of the Privileges Committee and its recommendation be noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019m grateful for an opportunity to present that report to the House, as deputy chair of the committee, and to present that report regarding the member\u2019s denial that he made a particular statement in the debate. On 24 September 2024, the Speaker ruled\u2014you ruled\u2014that the concerns raised by Jamie Arbuckle gave rise to a question of privilege. The concerns related to T\u0101kuta Ferris\u2019 denial that he made a particular statement during the general debate on 18 September, and you, Mr Speaker, ruled that Mr Ferris, by denying that he made the statement complained about, may have deliberately misled the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIn his speech, Mr Ferris said, \u201CA knowledge gap is a dangerous thing. It allows lies to be presented as truths. Politicians call this obfuscation\u2014the art of making something unclear, intentionally vague, ambiguous, to conceal or obscure the truth, to confuse others. Lies, in other words. Many in this House are masters of it,\u201D. The Rt Hon Winston Peters raised a point of order, saying that Mr Ferris \u201Cmade the allegation that members of this Parliament are liars,\u201D. It\u2019s long been considered an offence against the House to call another member a liar. The House operates on the basis that members behave truthfully and honourably. The Speaker noted at the time that he did not hear the statement in question, and told Mr Ferris\u00A0that if he did make the statement, then he should withdraw and apologise. To this, Mr Ferris said, \u201CI haven\u2019t made that statement.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe question before the committee was, therefore, whether, in denying that he\u2019d made the statement, Mr Ferris had deliberately misled the House. We reviewed the Hansard transcript of the exchange. We also asked Mr Ferris to provide written comment about the question of privilege, which he did. In that response, he stated that in his view, in his speech there was no \u201Cquote, statement or inference\u201D of members of Parliament being called liars. We invited Mr Ferris to attend the committee to further explain his stance, but he declined that invitation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EStanding Order 418 sets out a non-exhaustive list of examples of acts and omissions that may be treated as contempt. This list includes \u201Cdeliberately attempting to mislead the House or a committee (by way of statement, evidence, or petition)\u201D. To be considered a contempt, there is a requirement that the attempt to mislead be deliberate, which requires a level of intent. Inadvertent misleading without intent should not be judged too harshly. Denying that a misleading statement was made may be quite different\u2014it may involve a sustained course of action and judgment, rather than a single moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe committee found it difficult to reconcile the content of Mr Ferris\u2019 letter with the plain meaning of words he used in the House. We considered that the ordinary meaning of his statement can be understood to mean that many of the members of the House are masters of lying, and we consider that Mr Ferris was aware of this. As a consequence, we found that Mr Ferris had deliberately misled the House. We want to reiterate that the House operates on the basis of members being assumed to behave truthfully and honourably, and the House must be able to rely on the truthfulness of its members in order to operate. We considered that in deliberately misleading the House, Mr Ferris had impeded the House\u2019s ability to do so. For this reason, our conclusion was that Mr Ferris committed a contempt. We therefore recommended that Mr Ferris be required to apologise to this House, and I understand that that has already occurred. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u00220c0917e2922d4cfb94931215d5613748\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c0917e2922d4cfb94931215d5613748\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Parliament is, by definition, a place of words\u2014of many words, of millions of words\u2014and it\u2019s a place where, actually, notwithstanding the observations of some members in this Chamber and also some members of the general public, words do count. So I rise, as a member of the Privileges Committee, in support of the address just given by the deputy chair of the committee, and I want to reiterate some of the significant points that the deputy chair has just made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EIt was in his general debate speech on 18 September last year that T\u0101kuta Ferris was given an opportunity by the Speaker to deny a particular statement having been made by himself, following the raising of a point of order by the Rt Hon Winston Peters. During that general debate speech, the words of concern that arose were as follows. Mr Ferris said\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CA knowledge gap is a dangerous thing. It allows lies to be presented as truths. Politicians call this obfuscation\u2014the art of making something unclear, intentionally vague, ambiguous, to conceal or obscure the truth, to confuse others. Lies, in other words. Many in this House are masters of it,\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EAs the deputy chair has just said, it has been a longstanding and deeply significant matter in this House that all members come to the House with good intent. Now, we may disagree with members of the House about how they seek to achieve the intent with which they come to this place, but we take them as being honourable members and we take their word as being sincere, honest, and truthful. So it has always been an offence in this House to call another member a liar, let alone call all members of this House liars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThe Speaker told Mr Ferris that if he did make the statement, then he should withdraw it, and that was after the Rt Hon Winston Peters had raised the point of order. Then Mr Ferris responded by saying, \u201CI haven\u2019t made that statement.\u201D It was a very clear and absolute denial of having made the statement that he just previously had. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThe committee, based on its review of the Hansard transcript, considered the facts of the matter, and we considered that the issue was clear. The committee asked Mr Ferris to provide a written comment about the question of privilege, which he did do. The committee then invited Mr Ferris to a hearing of evidence, and I want to note for the House that Mr Ferris then declined that invitation to appear before Parliament\u2019s Privileges Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EIn his letter to the committee dated 4 November, Mr Ferris denied that he called members of Parliament liars and rejected that he intentionally misled the House. He argued that any \u201Caverage, normal person\u201D, after listening to the dictionary definition of the word \u201Cobfuscation\u201D, would agree with also defining obfuscation as \u201CLies, in other words\u201D. Mr Ferris, in his written testimony to the committee, reiterated that he described many members of the House as \u201Cmasters of [obfuscation]\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThe committee was tasked then with determining whether Mr Ferris\u2019 denial that he made a statement during the general debate on 18 September amounted to a contempt of the House. In his letter, Mr Ferris confirmed that he stated many members of the House are masters of obfuscation, and he also confirmed his held view of what that term meant. His response suggested clearly that he was aware that the ordinary meaning of his statement can be understood to mean that many members of the House are masters of lying, and therein lies the rub. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EWhen inviting Mr Ferris to appear before the committee, we let him know that we wanted to understand why he simply did not address the matter by withdrawing and apologising before the issue escalated to a question of privilege. We also asked Mr Ferris whether he had considered addressing the matter by making a personal explanation to the House. His decision to decline the committee\u2019s invitation to appear before it made it difficult for us to understand his view that he did not mislead the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EIn short, Mr Ferris took sustained action in denying that he made the statement, both in response to the point of order that was raised at the time, and again, later, in his subsequent letter to the committee. It was evident to the committee that Mr Ferris believes that obfuscation is synonymous with the act of lying, and, as a committee, we agree. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThe committee found that Mr Ferris deliberately misled the House. To call members of this House masters of obfuscation is an allegation that members of this House are liars. The House operates on the basis that members are assumed to behave truthfully and honourably. If it were not so, this House would be chaos\u2014some may say that it\u2019s chaos already, but it would be more chaotic than if that was not so as a basic premise of debate, argument, and discussion in this House. So, in deliberately misleading the House, Mr Ferris impeded the House in its ability to do its work, and for this reason, the committee found that Mr Ferris committed a contempt of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EMisleading the House is a serious matter. To have found that there was no fault in this matter would risk undermining the very fundamental principle of the operation on a day to day basis of this House, and, on that basis, we determined as a committee that Mr Ferris be required to apologise to the House. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022999c17ba4cff480e96262f882a24a97a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022999c17ba4cff480e96262f882a24a97a\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This is on behalf of the Green Party in relationship to the question of privilege concerning a member\u2019s denial that he made a particular statement in debate. I take note of the comments by the previous two speakers. I also take note of the report that I myself participated in the committee, and endorse the recommendations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think that particularly the aspect of description of events and what triggered this process to begin with should serve as a reminder to us all, including today, of the consequences of alleging that someone may not be behaving truthfully or honourably. So, with that, we acknowledge the mahi that went into creating this report, and particularly the staffers who helped guide us in the writing of this report. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u002280fd1dd1333249bf895e62c51f16cd2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280fd1dd1333249bf895e62c51f16cd2e\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Oceans and Fisheries):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s more in sadness than anything else I take this call, because M\u0101oridom has such high expectations that when the younger generation come to Parliament, they\u2019ll not only bring the passion of the electorate they represent but they\u2019ll bring enough humility to respect the House which reflects the inordinately strong traditions of our democracy, one of the longest unbroken chains of democracy in the civilised world. There are three legs to this offensive stool: number one, the committee must determine whether or not the words uttered were misleading; number two, members of the committee must determine whether or not the misleading statement was known at that time to be actually inaccurate; and, number three, it must have been the intention to mislead the House. Those three legs are laid out in our parliamentary encyclopaedia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThis young, inexperienced, largely unknown member has come to this House and levelled serious attacks against other members which caused our party, through our whip, to make a formal complaint. These decisions are not taken lightly, but, sadly, the complaint cannot deal with the deeper virus, and the virus is that that member, day after day, swaggers and shows an utter contempt for the obligations and duties that fall upon us as taxpayer representatives of the public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ELook no further than the surreptitious manner of that politician\u2019s apology. An attempt not to offer the apology in both languages, and I\u2019m saddened by that. I know that te reo M\u0101ori is one of our official languages. I know the member is allowed to use te reo. The people, however, who deserve the apology on the basis of a finding of contempt\u2014they ought to have heard that apology in both languages of the Treaty. An unwillingness to offer an apology in\u00A0English shows contempt for the vast majority of the New Zealand members of the public, who pay his salary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EOf course, this is a small element of seeking to deploy and weaponise tikanga and M\u0101ori culture to pretend that if you have M\u0101ori blood and you\u2019re in this Parliament, you don\u2019t answer to the same rules and regulations. I pray and hope that the New Zealand public at the next electoral experience deliver an appropriate response to that level of superciliousness. We cannot afford to have this ethnic warping of our democracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIf you come to Parliament, you accept, along with your fellow New Zealanders, an obligation to uphold the duties of being a parliamentarian. If you do not want to uphold those obligations, get another job. Don\u2019t come and deprecate, don\u2019t come and take for granted, and do not trivialise the inordinate privilege that many other M\u0101ori members of the iwi community of this Tai Tonga community have sought to achieve the status of being here to replace\u2014such people as Eruera Tirikatene, such people as John Patterson from Ng\u0101i Tahu in the 1800s, such people as the All Black Tutekawa Wyllie. Do you really think that they would have thought there was any honour in giggling, trivialising, and demonising this Parliament through that display of not only committing an act of contempt but accusing my leader, Winston Peters, and others of being liars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ENow, there may be elements in our iwi community who think that this is a gross overreaction. This is not an overreaction; this is a level of the obligation that sits upon everyone because when we are here as parliamentarians, we have an indivisible duty, and it\u2019s about time\u2014and this report actually affirms the importance of not splitting rules to suit people who enjoy a different ethnicity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EYes, he did make an apology in te reo. I\u2019ve been speaking te reo since that guy was born, and I would have had no hesitation in offering an apology with humility to every single New Zealander who I have treated with contempt and I take for granted the money they pay every day for the handsome salary we enjoy as public servants. No, this member beats to a drum where he believes he\u2019s impervious and he\u2019s beyond any of this criticism because he\u2019s blessed with some pure, \u201Cnon-Muggles\u201D M\u0101ori blood. Shame on you for bringing your own people into disrepute, shame on your leaders for not insisting you show whakaiti\u2014you show humility\u2014and shame on you for misrepresenting and bringing whakam\u0101 to the long list of leaders who have held the positions of the M\u0101ori seat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThere is no honour in this arrogant, no honour in this childish, no honour in this contemptuous display of disregard for what it means to be a parliamentarian, and I\u2019m very proud to stand and give this speech and to stand with the architect of this report. Too afraid to turn up in the courtyard of Parliament\u2019s highest committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c695cb8eb21f4ea9936cab6e996ca745\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, no\u2014look, you can\u2019t mention\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278b01913991e43609d47d1f172131320\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s in here\u2014I can quote that the invitation was given. The invitation was not taken up by the very member who says that a number of us are too afraid in our political life to stand up and be counted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ESo, to the committee who have come up with this report, sadly there are likely to be other instances. Let it be a lesson, for those of us who treat with absolute privilege that we are here, that this report is an indictment. This report is a very sad day, and, hopefully, there is the opportunity for the person in the wrong to learn a lesson that without whakaiti, there is no rangatiratanga. The rangatira who does not understand duties and obligations is whakah\u0113h\u0113, whakamanamana. These are M\u0101ori words that we know very deeply, and they call for a level of modesty, humility, and the tohu of a rangatira. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u00223548d89d23194d3c8c4427458de246b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223548d89d23194d3c8c4427458de246b0\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to endorse the report back from the Privileges Committee. This is a serious matter where the committee found that Mr Ferris deliberately misled the House. It\u2019s one thing in the heat of debate to make a regrettable comment; it is another thing to then deny that and refuse to apologise at the first available opportunity. That denial was what the committee was asked to investigate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThe committee worked constructively to investigate Mr Ferris\u2019 actions to see what was said and what he was saying that he\u2019d said. After reviewing the Hansard transcript, the committee agreed that the statements were an offence against the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EWhat we could not understand was why Mr Ferris continued to deny what was said. It was there for all to see on the footage and it was recorded in the Hansard. Yes, the committee did invite Mr Ferris to front up and explain himself. He refused. He instead wrote a letter that the committee found contradictory and confusing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EFollowing the report back, Mr Ferris apologised to the House last night, at around 7.30\u00A0p.m. I trust that that statement was sincere and that Mr Ferris has taken some time to reflect on this breach of the tikanga of this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThis Parliament cannot effectively operate unless its members behave truthfully and honourably. Just like maraes, temples, or churches have their own tikanga, so too does this Parliament, which must be respected. If we can\u2019t take someone at their word, the trust and integrity of our democratic institutions will be eroded. Many great leaders, including from the member\u2019s own party, who have been members of Parliament have understood that. They earned their mana and commanded a great level of respect from across the political spectrum, not by questioning the integrity of their political opponents, but by championing what they believed in while respecting the tikanga and rules of our democratic institutions, and it\u2019s those democratic institutions which make us a great country. Looking across human history, looking around the world, we can say that we are very lucky to be one of the few societies where decisions are made based on a genuine contest of ideas. We must carefully guard that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EFrom time to time, it may be the opinion of some members that the rules of this Parliament are no longer fit for purpose. We have seen the rules of this place change over many years, adjusting as social, cultural, and political norms change, and I acknowledge that this process has to be a process that is conducted in a very careful and considered manner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EIf MPs disagree with the rules, there is a process to change them. But until then, it is essential for the order of the House that the rules are followed in their existing form. As an example, a future change that MPs may wish to consider is how apologies are delivered to the House. It may be desirable that the apologies are delivered in the same language in which the original breach was made, and perhaps at the time when most MPs are in the House\u2014for example, before question time. That may or may not be appropriate, but it is something to think about. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u00221f36474663b946d68cbbbbfc4b62a869\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f36474663b946d68cbbbbfc4b62a869\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Matarau\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. Thank you. Just to seek some clarification, I understood that once the apology is provided, it doesn\u2019t go to a debate. I\u2019m not sure and, honestly, I\u2019m happy to get that direction clearly from you\u2014and, particularly, to the detail and the measure in which it\u2019s been provided in the speeches that I\u2019ve heard so far\u2014in your clarification, please, sir. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00227ea3016dc14b4ed6a2fbea178fffe0fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ea3016dc14b4ed6a2fbea178fffe0fc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There is a report from the Privileges Committee that\u2019s being debated, and so the reference to the apology can be in the context of the report. The reflections on the content of the apology cannot be questioned, but what has been raised is the issue of it being delivered in the two languages of Parliament, or otherwise. Now, in the debate, that\u2019s not an unreasonable point to raise, in my opinion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve been listening to this debate carefully to ensure that there was no questioning of the apology that was delivered last night, which has been accepted by the House. So I think that this is just part of the situation we\u2019re in, where there is going to be an increased use of te reo M\u0101ori in the House, and Dr Parmar has just put a suggestion that might like to be considered by the Standing Orders Committee at some point in the future. But these comments are made in the nature of a debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI want to make it very clear that I\u2019ve heard no questioning of the apology that was delivered. There was quite a lot of lecturing about how people might like to think about things, but that\u2019s not uncommon in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022565fea9c310a45ec8914accd1ecfd13f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022565fea9c310a45ec8914accd1ecfd13f\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. Ahau, he tangata kua roa i runga i ng\u0101 marae o te motu. \u0100ta whakangungua ki t\u014Dku marae ki te k\u0101inga. Ahau t\u0113tahi, kua oti i ahau te tuhi i ng\u0101 tohu paetahi e toru. Kua oti e ahau te tuhi i te paerua. Ehara i te tauhou ki te reo P\u0101keh\u0101 me te whakatakoto kupu ki te reo P\u0101keh\u0101, m\u0101rama pai. Ehara hoki ahau i te tangata karo i te kupu whakatika. Ki te whakatikahia ahau i runga i te marae kei te pai noa iho. Ka t\u016B ahau, ka whakarongo, ka whakahokia he k\u014Drero. Taku whakarongo ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero i roto i t\u0113nei whakawhitinga k\u014Drero, he hanga tut\u016B te puehu. Kei te pai t\u0113n\u0101. Engari m\u0113n\u0101 ko koe te kaiwhakatut\u016B i te puehu ko te tikanga ka noho mai koe ki te whakarongo ki te kupu whakahoki. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira ehara i te mea ka t\u014Droahia \u0113nei kupu \u0101ku, kua rongo au i te whakahau o te k\u014Dmiti. Kei te pai. I h\u0101paingia i whakamanahia taua whakatau, i heke mai ki konei ki te whakap\u0101ha ki te Whare, kei te pai. Heoi an\u014D ki te whakaiti i ahau me t\u014Dku wh\u0101nau, e kore au e whakaae. N\u014D reira ko te tangata nei e kaha karawhiu i te kupu k\u0101tahi ka rere atu, kei te pai, t\u0101ria te w\u0101. T\u0101ria te w\u0101 t\u0101ua i runga i ng\u0101 marae o te motu. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EHeoi an\u014D, ka tahuri au ki te reo o te whare nei.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Speaker. I have long stood on the many marae of the country. I was trained on my marae, at my home. I myself have completed three degrees. I have also written a thesis. I am not new to the English language and composing my thoughts in English; I am well versed. I also do not avoid words of correction. If I am corrected on the marae, then I accept it. I stand, I listen, and I reply. However, as I listen to the words discussed here, I hear words that stir the dust. That is OK. But, if you are the one stirring up the dust, then you should stay and listen to the replies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EI am not here to delay proceedings as I have heard the order of the committee. It is fine. That decision was adhered to, I am here to apologise to the House; it is fine by me. However, should someone belittle my family and me, I will not accept that. So, to the person who spoke recklessly and then left, it is fine, your time will come. Wait until we cross paths on one of the marae of the land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EFor now, let me turn my attention to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not afraid of consequence or anything like that. I made some statements on the day; I wrote the speech. I\u2019m the holder of three undergraduate degrees and a Master\u2019s degree; I\u2019ve written plenty of stuff. I know the nuances of the English language and I know what I wrote, and that\u2019s the view that I had on the day. It\u2019s the view I maintain. There is a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223abe569c3f6144199a6cfaa6c7f2d3b1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d just suggest that the\u2014we\u2019re debating the report itself. It\u2019s not the right time to go into a justification that might suggest that the report is wrong. I don\u2019t mean to interrupt the member, but there\u2019s a point where we have to move on, and it\u2019s that what comes before us that\u2019s more important than what has happened some time back. So can I just suggest that in the remaining time, the member concentrates on the process\u2014you don\u2019t have to use all the time, by the way\u2014and not get into a position where there is now contest from the member about the event for which he has apologised to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c5f977b97b94a6fb9d4690f738115d3\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora. T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. I\u2019m not offering any contest; I accept the ruling. I accept the ruling, and that\u2019s fine. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EI understand that the House is uncomfortable with me, and I think that\u2019s fine, too. Te iwi M\u0101ori have long, long fought to be heard appropriately, and our presence here is in that vein. I come here, yeah, as a younger M\u0101ori than Shane Jones, but I\u2019m a man of 46 years. I have three children. Two of them are grown, and they\u2019re nearly all out of kura. We\u2019ve been doing this a long time, and we understand it well, and we know that our position will agitate in this House, but it is a position that our generation was born into\u2014raised, taught, and developed into\u2014and it will not be going away. It\u2019s not disrespectful. Ehara au i te tangata whakaiti tangata. Ehara au i te tangata whakaiti kawa. [I am not one to belittle others. I am not one to trample another\u2019s procedures.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EWhat we are doing is not disrespectful, and as I sit here\u2014well, I was sitting upstairs, actually\u2014someone was suggesting that the mana of te reo M\u0101ori may not be enough and it may not suffice in this two-partner House. I\u2019m not too sure about that, and if deeply, truly, this Whare believes that an apology in te reo M\u0101ori may not be enough, I can guarantee you this: my apology in te reo M\u0101ori means more than my apology in English.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019ll leave it there. I\u2019m OK with the ruling. I may not be OK with some things that were said, but we\u2019ll wait for an opportunity on a marae somewhere in the future. T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. Kia ora koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022eed6300653674af29b0639977b120612\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eed6300653674af29b0639977b120612\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I put the question, I just\u2014in respect of that\u2014want to make it absolutely clear that there is no question that the apology delivered by the member last night is accepted by the House. There were debating points raised; that\u2019s what you get. The question is that the House take note of the report of the Privileges Committee and its recommendation be noted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fe461afda9414bae988f4f98c51630ee\u0022\u003EVictims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022afccfd0dca40403e9360218b0e114818\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u002207d6b712f44c4aefb80d1ae59aefb914\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207d6b712f44c4aefb80d1ae59aefb914\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I present a legislative statement on the Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253686718a315439a82269b6be0747878\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252cf5d8621e84109b41801bada69a9e3\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI am pleased to be leading this bill through its final stages of the House and to acknowledge the work that got us to this point. In particular, I want to thank the people and organisations who shared sometimes very personal experiences in the hope of creating better experiences for others in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe amendments in this bill strengthen the courts\u2019 statutory powers to protect victims of litigation abuse in family proceedings. Just to outline just what we\u2019re talking about here in terms of litigation abuses, it is when somebody uses the court system to harass, contact, and control their victim, rather than to resolve legitimate disputes. This can include making false allegations and filing excessive documents with the intention to hurt their victim in some way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to pause for a moment to reflect on that. Our courts are places that are designed to help people to resolve issues when they have not been able to do so in the context of the Family Court. Instead, court participants sometimes use the court to prolong conflict, to waste time and resources, and to inflict harm, and that is not acceptable, especially in relation to family proceedings, which often involve children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe bill is focused on providing the courts a way to identify and address this behaviour. Now, the purpose is to strengthen the court\u2019s statutory powers to respond to litigation abuse. It does this by amending the Family Court Act, District Court Act, and Senior Courts Act to include a new judicial power to protect the party from litigant abuse in family proceedings. The bill will apply to a range of family proceedings, including care of children and relationship property cases. It allows the court to make an order protecting parties to\u00A0the proceeding if the court is satisfied that one party is engaged in litigant abuse. This includes where they are exhibiting conduct intended to harass, annoy, harm, or psychologically abuse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe bill sets an appropriate threshold that someone is required to meet before they can access the protection. It allows for a wide range of behaviour to be the grounds for an order while also recognising the seriousness of abuse experienced by victims. The protections of the bill are intended to be accessible to victims. It\u2019s why it uses the words \u201Charass\u201D and \u201Cannoy\u201D to describe the intent of the behaviour and leaves it to judges to have the last say in whether an order is appropriate. The intention is to give judges broad ability to make an order when the situation requires it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, at the Justice Committee, we heard that \u201Charass\u201D and \u201Cannoy\u201D may unintentionally trivialise the impact of litigation abuse. The bill has, therefore, been amended to include psychological abuse and harm in the description of the intent of the behaviour that\u2019s being exhibited. These terms indicate the serious nature of behaviour and acknowledge the impact on the victim. Their inclusion is not intended to make it more difficult for the victim to access the protection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe bill also makes it clear that litigant abuse can be a one-off event or a pattern. Being aware of the harm being done as part of a pattern is in line with what we know about family violence. In deciding to make this order, the court\u2019s required to look at all the relevant information so it can assess whether there is harm that should be stopped. Together, these changes avoid the court being caught up on technicalities that exist in the current law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EFinally, if the order is made, the court will require a party to seek the approval of the court to take any further steps in existing or new family proceedings for up to three years. A longer order of up to five years can be made if the court considers there are exceptional circumstances. This will give the court the tools to protect victims that are being abused through the court process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EFinally, the bill comes into force 12 months after the date of the Royal assent. Ultimately, this is a Government that is focused on reducing the number of victims of crime, and that is a broad swathe of what we\u2019re doing in the justice sector. We\u2019re also interested in ensuring that the court processes are efficient and operate in a way where the victims of crime are dealt with appropriately, and that, in instances such as the Family Court where, more often than not, it is trying to come to an agreement and deal with disputes and arguments, that is done in a way whereby the court isn\u2019t used as a means to make the situation worse. Fundamentally, what Parliament is doing with this legislation is giving the court some extra tools to push back against people who use the court system to victimise others. On that basis, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00222926ca8ca1324b0c860d1e2d56c3c333\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222926ca8ca1324b0c860d1e2d56c3c333\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I rise today in support of the Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill. This is a crucial piece of legislation that ensures that our justice system is not misused as a weapon of control and coercion. This bill strengthens judicial powers to protect those victims from further abuse of litigation. Litigation abuse is an insidious tactic used by abusers to continue harassment long after a relationship has come to an end.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ELet me be clear about what litigation abuse is. It is not about people seeking legitimate legal remedies; it is about abusers manipulating the Family Court and its processes to wear down victims, forcing them to respond excessively and unnecessarily dragging them through repeated court appearances, and using the law itself as a tool of control against others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EVictims of family violence often leave abusive relationships hoping for safety, hoping for peace, and hoping to get a fresh start in life, but litigation abuse ensures that abuse does not stop. Instead of physical violence, abusers use the court system to continue their campaign of intimidation on others. They file excessive documents and force unnecessary court hearings and use legal technicalities to engage their victims in endless battles. This is not justice; this is abuse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis bill is a necessary step to respond to a longstanding problem. It strengthens the courts\u2019 ability to take a look at this behaviour, to identify it, and to stop litigation abuse by requiring judges to take a broader view, not just of those individual applications but of a pattern of what is occurring before the court and an overall pattern of a person\u2019s conduct in court. It ensures that if an order is made against an abuser, any future attempts they make to engage their victim in legal proceedings will be reviewed by the court before they can indeed proceed any further. This will reduce the ability of abusers to continue their harm through legal means.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI\u2019m proud that this bill was introduced under a Labour Government, and I\u2019m proud that it forms part of our philosophy of putting victims of crime first and taking real and active steps not just to keep our community safe here and now but also to break the cycle of crime. It is a reflection of our commitment to ensuring the justice system serves victims, not their abusers, but we must acknowledge that this piece of legislation is just one piece of a far greater picture. If we are serious about keeping our community safe, we must do more than just respond to crime. We must also prevent crime from occurring in the first place, and this bill is a small step in that direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis is where the Government goes wrong here. The coalition Government\u2019s failure to have a plan in crime prevention is a real concern for New Zealanders, and the one bill we have that does some of this work was a hangover from the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EYou\u2019ll hear from the members opposite in their speeches that they are focused on law and order, but the real truth is that they have no plan to break the cycle of crime. Their approach is reactionary. They will throw people into prison and claim they are making our streets safer. They will cut funding for essential services then feign surprise when crime rates increase. They will take away support from the most vulnerable and act as if harsher sentencing alone will solve the problem of reoccurring crime in New Zealand communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ELet me be clear: if we do not address the root causes of crime, the cycle will continue. If we do not provide victims with the support they need to break free from violence, they will remain trapped. If we do not invest in prevention, we will only ever be responding to crime after the fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWhen we were in Government, we recognised that tackling family and sexual violence required more than just legal changes. This bill today is one part of that. It required investment in support services, prevention programmes, and victim protections, like this bill does today. That is why we boosted the Victim Assistance Scheme and made an estimated 10,000 more grants available to victims of serious crimes. We knew that words alone were not enough. Victims needed real, tangible support to recover and rebuild their lives, and that is why we\u00A0tripled the level of funding for the Victim Assistance Scheme and doubled the level of funding for Victim Support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EContrast that with this Government. Since taking office, they have made the wrong choices. They have pulled police out of family violence and mental health without putting any additional funding or resources into those areas. They have cut funding to Oranga Tamariki, leaving vulnerable children and families with fewer protections, and offered up boot camps as a solution. They\u2019ve appointed a Minister responsible for the prevention of family and sexual violence who says she is only responsible for coordinating things, rather than taking any real action in this space. Where is the plan to prevent violence and where is the commitment to victims?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ELabour took a whole-of-Government approach for tackling family and sexual violence and I\u2019m pleased that this bill is progressing. In 2018, we established the joint venture, a collaboration of Government agencies with collective responsibility for addressing family violence and ongoing abuse in communities. We knew that a siloed approach would not work and we needed justice, health, education, and social services working closely together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWe backed our approach with real investment and allocated funding for family and sexual violence, and we did this Budget after Budget. We understood that times of crisis increase the victims and over COVID, more funding was given when families were locked down. We ensured that services had the ability to respond when they needed to. In 2020, we invested $183 million in family violence services. I don\u2019t think that\u2019s wasteful spending; I consider that to be saving lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWe allocated $131.9 million over four years for prevention programmes in communities, prevention programmes that save lives and enable wh\u0101nau to be able to come back after traumatic events, and then Te Aorerekura, but Te Aorerekura was not just a policy document; it\u2019s a 25-year plan, a commitment to tackling the root causes of violence in our country. It was developed in partnership with survivors and it was developed with advocates and front-line workers. It took a cross-agency approach, ensuring agencies work together. Under this programme, we are seeing some real changes, and it\u2019s great to see this bill today which is going ahead and the continued work that Te Aorerekura does in this space, but it\u2019s a real shame that it received no additional funding in the previous Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really important that we understand the context in which family violence operates, and this bill, in identifying litigation abuse, is an important part of acknowledging that family harm goes wider than just violence; it\u2019s psychological abuse and control over others. It is incredibly important that we must keep examining the fact that this Government has no real answer to the ongoing problem of the cycle of crime, no long-term strategy, no vision for safer communities, and no interest in structural changes that need to stop violence before it happens. They have talked about harsher punishments, but they have said nothing about prevention. They\u2019ve cut funding for front-line services and yet they have still no claim to care about really keeping people safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis bill is a step forward. It ensures our justice system cannot be used as a weapon against victims, but if we want real safety in our communities, we need to do more than just respond to crime. We need to stop it from happening in the first place. That means investing in families and education and social services and the kinds of protections that this bill represents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis bill sends a clear message that the Family Court is there to resolve legitimate disputes, not to enable further harm, but we must go further. We must continue to invest in prevention and in Victim Support and in breaking the cycle of crime in New Zealand communities. That is what we in the Labour Party believe in and that is what we will continue to fight for. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022 data-id=\u002264824d4ac40545e38e5baa680208d352\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264824d4ac40545e38e5baa680208d352\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise in support of the Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill. It\u2019s a positive day when all parties agree on the new legislation that makes our society safer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EToday, we are coming together to protect and empower victims of family violence, and to say that we heard you and we are going to do better for you and for every generation afterwards. To all the submitters and contributors and people who did not have the protection from harassment and abuse that this legislation will bring, this is for you. To those who\u2019ve had to endure continued abuse through the courts for what you and your families have been through, this is for you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EThe mahi of many people from both sides of the House means that we are moving forward together for our shared goal: the goal that we can and must prevent family and sexual violence from ever happening in Aotearoa. We are saying that we do not accept family violence\u2014whether it be stalking, physical violence, or psychological pressure\u2014ever happening, and this is a step towards that shared vision. Our mokopuna and future generations deserve our continued commitment to this goal. Together, we can and must create a world where everyone can live free from violence, with dignity and peace, so that all of us can flourish, and this is one step in the right direction. This bill amends the Family Court Act 1980, the District Court Act 2016, and the Senior Courts Act 2016, which will strengthen the courts\u2019 powers to protect the victims of litigation abuse in family proceedings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EToday, we are using the word \u201Cvictim\u201D, and I just want to acknowledge that many people do not relate to that term and relate more to the word \u201Csurvivor\u201D. When I\u2019ve spoken with survivors of family violence who have experienced this continued abuse through court proceedings, there are harrowing stories like those of mothers who are raising their kids and want to have safe and secure environments for them. Parents just want the best for our kids, and we need to ensure that our laws reflect that and that our laws support every parent\u2019s ability to provide safety and stability\u2014something that all our tamariki need and deserve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EAny court procedure brings an element of stress and the nature of family violence procedures means that there is often a huge emotional toll, and this law will help reduce this by ensuring that people are free from abusive conduct inside and outside of the court. This bill will take steps to address the issue of people using the court system to harass victims and survivors of abuse, which has been a persistent problem for far too long. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EI heard from a mother who suffered because we didn\u2019t have this law in place. She was navigating the court system while trying to retain a sense of normality and stability for her kids. At every milestone during the court proceedings, she felt relief that she was moving closer towards the end of this harrowing process, but this relief was short-lived when more unnecessary documents and accusations arrived to her lawyer. Every new document that arrived compounded this continued harassment. She described a funnel above her head of everyday pressures like rent, work, bills, getting kids to school, helping them with homework, and juggling all of these things. This funnel above her head with unnecessary documents was weighing her down. Rent, work, bills, kids, juggling homework, pets, and then pages and pages and pages of unnecessary court documents\u2014court document, court document, court document. These documents were stifling her ability to flourish and thrive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EAs a mum, I understand these everyday pressures, and I know we are just doing the best with what we have. She was doing the best with what she had. She and her children are now thriving. She has finished a degree and has a fulfilling job, and through her resilience, her kids are flourishing. As a survivor of family abuse and continued abuse through the court system, she reflected that her healing journey and the healing of her kids would have been different if this law was in place when she needed it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EIn the first reading of this bill, the Hon Marama Davidson spoke of the need to balance the right of victims to be free from abuse in our justice system with maintaining a fair process, and, as such, she strongly recommended the scrutiny of the select committee on this bill. When we speak on behalf of victims and survivors, our goal is to uphold justice and fairness, not to undermine them. The court cannot be used in a disruptive way, without any real intention of seeking justice, but just to further traumatise and harass survivors, who just want to live their lives with peace and aroha. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EI want to also draw attention to the themes of some submissions, including that of Community Law and the Backbone Collective. Whilst speaking in favour of this law, they did raise valid concerns that some victims often need to make multiple applications to the Family Court before their case is heard, and their concern was that the introduction of this legislation would prevent victims, who have been so brave in coming forward, from being able to use the court system to bring proceedings. The committee noted this and said that with regard to new section 12, in clause 5, the committee was satisfied that this would protect in these circumstances, and I also want to acknowledge the point of monitoring and reporting, which was brought up by many members in the first reading of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003ETragically, we know that in Aotearoa, most violence is not reported, and nearly all sexual violence is not reported at all. We aim to increase reporting while reducing the prevalence of violence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003ENow, we know the way forward on this, and that is Te Aorerekura, which is a 25-year plan, an across-Government-agencies plan, that the Hon Marama Davidson worked so hard to champion and bring in. I want to take this opportunity in the House, while we\u2019re talking about family and sexual violence, to implore the Government in the strongest possible terms to honour Te Aorerekura and work collaboratively, because that is what survivors have been asking of us. They were part of creating Te Aorerekura. This centres survivors\u2019 voices and experiences, and it includes working together across Government. I believe in all of our ability to do that, and to centre victims, rather than party politics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003ETe Aorerekura was agreed to by all parties, and a pivotal and important part of Te Aorerekura\u2014which came from survivors\u2014is prevention and education and rehabilitation, because if we prevent these things from ever happening, then our country will flourish and\u00A0the people in it will thrive. In the Greens, we have a vision where everybody has the things they need to do the best that they can with what they have. Now, if everybody was\u00A0able to live that flourishing life, imagine what our next generations could achieve. I implore everybody here to read Te Aorerekura and take this with you into the rest of time\u2014there we go! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u0022f46da5000f9941c9812dace469eb48c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f46da5000f9941c9812dace469eb48c1\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you. I will keep my remarks quite short given that we\u2019re in the latter part of the afternoon. I think it\u2019s fantastic that we have cross-party Parliament support for the Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill in its third reading. I think it\u2019s a testament to the work that we can all collectively do as parliamentarians. I want to acknowledge the former Minister of Justice Ginny Andersen in her role in bringing this legislation, and I acknowledge the too the current Minister of Justice, the Hon Paul Goldsmith, who\u2019s the Minister shepherding this bill through the House in its third reading. So congratulations to both those members for being instrumental in this part of this journey in terms of where this legislation now sits in front of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EI will just canvass a few of the main provisions in the bill for the sake of further clarification. The Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill will strengthen the courts\u2019 statutory powers to protect victims of litigation abuse in family proceedings. Evidently, this is an ongoing problem that the courts have highlighted. Recent case law has highlighted that current legislation and inherent powers held by judges may not be sufficient to stop litigation abuse in family proceedings. This is something that the former Minister and the current Minister are now cognisant of. The bill will make amendments that strengthen the courts\u2019 ability to identify and respond to instances where an individual attempts to use court systems to harass, annoy, harm, or psychologically abuse another person. When a person applies for an order, the court is required to look broadly at that said person\u2019s behaviour in and outside the court proceedings, focusing on the intent of that behaviour to determine whether there is, you might say, unwanted abuse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EThe bill carefully balances the objective of ensuring the court is not misused to perpetrate harm, with the right to access justice\u2014and natural justice is obviously something that we all care deeply about as parliamentarians. The bill will make amendments that strengthen the courts\u2019 ability to identify and respond to instances where an individual attempts to use courts\u00A0or Family Courts and proceedings to harass, annoy, harm, or psychologically abuse another person. As formerly stated, when a person applies in an order to a court, it is required to look broadly at that behaviour. As I\u2019ve rightly said now a couple of times, evidently this is a problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EI think this is a good piece of legislation. I don\u2019t want to over-litigate the issues. I think we\u2019re all of the same determination that the abuse of people that are in front of the courts has been a problem. As I formerly mentioned, both the former Minister and current Minister are aware of it. And the fact that this legislation is now in its third reading and has unanimous support across the House speaks to the wonderful work that this piece of legislation will now ameliorate. Hopefully, out the other side of this, we will have a better court system protecting the victims of family violence. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022 data-id=\u00225a63a6ac196c4740af01cd69a88bc370\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a63a6ac196c4740af01cd69a88bc370\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Associate Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to, again, speak in support of the Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EThe sad part of the reality of our system is that it is almost overwhelming in the ways in which persons with ill-intent can create victimisation of vulnerable people, and the sad tragedy of the process by which you can use the very system which is put in place to provide protections to further victimise the vulnerable is tragic in itself. This is an important piece of legislation, because the saddest thing we can see in the abuse of the court system is that anything that would deter vulnerable people from reaching out to the system that is supposed to protect them, or deter them from having faith in that system, is just sad and tragic in every aspect. This is an important piece of legislation that will work towards breaking the bonds of\u00A0control. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI had hoped to make a very short submission, again reflecting the time of the day and the week that has gone ahead of us, but I think it is important to actually recognise the effort this Government is taking to reduce not only the impacts of crime but the number of victims of crime, encouraged by the fact that public opinion is now recognising that law and order is being addressed and it is now not the most prevalent issue facing communities, which is why we now can focus on economic growth. It has been suggested that this side of the House does not have a plan to reduce the victims of crime and actually address crime, and I would suggest that everything that was outlined by one of the previous speakers in terms of the investment in families, the investment in education, the investment in prevention is exactly what this side of the House has been doing and why this Government is so committed to growing the economy, to ensure that the hardships that are facing families can be alleviated, and also that we have the funds and the ability to do more to support the social initiatives that will help in terms of housing, in terms of health, and in terms of building a better social system that takes care of our vulnerable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EIt is with great privilege that I stand on this side of the House to recognise that, yes, this is one piece of legislation, and it is encouraging that we all agree on putting these protections in place\u2014but also that I stand with pride about the work that is being done to address not only the drivers of crime, the impacts of crime, but, actually, to recognise that it isn\u2019t about how much money you put into an issue; it is actually the impact of the work that is being done\u2014and great work is being done. I am very privileged to be commending this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022 data-id=\u002288854e8ab0c843f2b0b48e854828e9dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288854e8ab0c843f2b0b48e854828e9dd\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. I don\u2019t have an awful lot more to add on the Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill, because, thankfully, this is one that all parties around the House today are going to be supporting, and for good reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EThere are some points, as I\u2019ve been listening to the debate, that I was hoping to bring to light on this bill, and it\u2019s that we have a court system that is supposed to deliver justice. We know that that is not the way that a lot of victims who go through our court system feel. Often, they spend a lot of time emotionally, mentally, legally, physically preparing for that long-awaited day in court\u2014that long-awaited day that can sometimes take many years to get to\u2014where they hope to receive justice. And justice can look different to different people. It\u2019s not always an imprisonment. It\u2019s not always a court sentence that victims are seeking. Often, it is just accountability\u2014accountability for the harm that has been caused to themselves and in their lives and for that to be recognised and on the record\u2014but often that court process and that day in court can be retraumatising, because, unfortunately, there are a lot of people who know how to use the court system to further their abuse of the victim.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EOur courts and the justice process that is supposed to restore justice for people who have experienced family violence or sexual violence often serves as another form of violence, whether that\u2019s in the pursuit of protection orders or, perhaps, the defendant trying to make excuses as to why they think their harm is excusable. Harm and violence is never ever OK, and it\u2019s important, on the one hand, to have a justice system that actually provides justice; we also have to be careful that we continue to allow people room to provide a defence. It\u2019s always balancing this very sensitive balancing act of how we ensure these processes aren\u2019t used to abuse and also ensuring that people who are defending themselves also have access to natural justice and justice before the courts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EThis bill is about reducing abuse of litigation, and, as many speakers before me have much more eloquently put it, abuse of litigation, in simple terms, is people who use the court as a weapon and use it to further harm and further victimise the people before it. It made me think about other places within our justice system where abuse of litigation can happen, and it happens so often particularly for women who are victims of sexual violence. There are always these arguments around, \u201CShe wanted it\u201D, \u201CShe was asking for it\u2014that\u2019s why it happened.\u201D One recent high-profile case was, in the murder of Grace Millane, where there was a rough-sex defence, where Grace Millane\u2019s family had to listen to months and months and months of her murderer saying that her death was a consequence of rough sex gone wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EIn the UK, they have banned that as a defence, because, again, it leads to abuse of litigation. It is re-traumatising. It means that the victim of that harm becomes the focus of the court case. Their behaviour, their actions, what they were wearing becomes the focus of that court case, as opposed to the actions of the person who has caused the harm and the accountability that is being sought. Any steps that we can take to make sure that people who have been the victims of sexual violence and family violence do not have to stand there and defend themselves when they\u2019ve been waiting so long to get that justice and have been denied it because we have a court that prioritises things that should not be the focus of our justice system\u2014I\u2019m happy to support this bill today and hope that more improvements will come to our court system, because they are much needed. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1650b7ab6414796aa96f804ca5e7f55\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1650b7ab6414796aa96f804ca5e7f55\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER (Minister for the South Island):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to support the Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill. It\u2019s supported across the House, and it will pass. It\u2019s a job well done by the Justice Committee, but it is frustrating to hear again and again across the House about how the Government\u2019s not focusing on addressing the causes of crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EOf course, anyone who has sat in the Justice Committee for the past 12 to 14 months knows that\u2019s exactly what the Government\u2019s programme does: it is addressing the causes of crime, the impacts of crime, and the victims of crime, the consequences of crime, and what we do to rehabilitate individuals so that we don\u2019t end up with more crime. I can only point to bills like the Sentencing (Reform) Amendment Bill, which, along with capping sentences, puts a focus on victims\u2019 rights, victims\u2019 advocacy, and implements that into the statute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI can point to the work of the Justice Committee on the upcoming regulatory systems bills\u00A0that we may get to today, which talks about how we can make small changes to speed up the court system. I can talk about the Justice Committee\u2019s focus on scrutiny of the courts and access to justice and timeliness and modernising the court system. I can talk about the upcoming multi-agency cluster approach, scrutiny approach\u2014interrogation of Justice, Police, Corrections, all of the justice agencies, who are supposed to work together on a pipeline approach to solving our justice problems\u2014that the Justice Committee will be looking at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI can also talk about many, many other things, but what we\u2019ll talk about today is one small change, supported across the House, that is to limit the ability of abusive litigants to use the court processes and the legal systems to terrorise innocent victims of abuse, innocent victims of crime themselves\u2014to use the court process to delay and to harass and to intimidate and to otherwise obstruct access to justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EWe support this bill. It\u2019s supported widely across the House. I\u2019m glad that the Parliament can agree on this one, and I look forward to much more agreement as we move through our justice programme later on today. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u00223a3877f6a554410e83a8a18547182fd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a3877f6a554410e83a8a18547182fd4\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is a pleasure to be able to stand in support of this bill today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill was first introduced on 22 August 2023, and it seeks to protect victims from litigation abuse in family proceedings. For a lot of people, the concept of litigation abuse might be something that they\u2019re unfamiliar with. It\u2019s not necessarily part of everyone\u2019s everyday life. It\u2019s not necessarily something that people who have never found themselves in these terrible situations actually pay much attention to, but certainly for the people who do find themselves in these situations, it\u2019s an incredibly sinister and pervasive means by which to not only control somebody but to have at your disposal the levers and the machinations of the justice system and to be able to weaponise that as a tool, which I think makes the abuse particularly difficult to swallow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003ELitigation abuse, as I said, is a sinister and cruel way, and it\u2019s often something that\u2019s overlooked, as it plays out, as another aspect of family violence, which in and of itself is often behind closed doors. We know that over many decades, and certainly in my lifetime, watching that play out from something that was considered to be, you know, behaviour that was just part of normal life that was covered up, and, often, even police intervention was difficult to get and to have and for people to see the relief that, somehow, the State or any other aspects of the State would come to their defence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EFor this more modern iteration of family violence, it\u2019s something that this House should stop sooner rather than later. As one commentator commented, it\u2019s an aspect of family violence that extends the suffering of victims from beyond the home, from beyond those closed doors, and into the courtroom. That should be a safe place, and there should be no means or mechanisms by which someone acting in bad faith can use that system to further punish someone. It\u2019s become disturbingly common, I think, for perpetrators to misuse the legal system, not only to harass people but as another form to control them. At its base, intentionality, I suppose, it\u2019s just another form of intimidation of victims. This manipulation of the justice system leaves victims, I think, not only emotionally shattered and harmed in various different ways but it also creates financial considerations and can leave them financially drained. They\u2019ve got abuse and they\u2019ve got this harassment and this form of intimidation and control coming at them from all different directions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe bill is not only timely\u2014and as I said, it was introduced in 2023\u2014it\u2019s an essential part, and, I think, an essential part if we\u2019re really serious about restoring fairness and restoring protection in our legal system. We heard some personal accounts during the process from people who told us about the devastating impact litigation abuse has had on their own life, describing how their particular abuser had weaponised the legal system and, in some cases, had gone to huge lengths, and were clearly people who were well versed, or who had learnt how to be very well versed, in the legal system\u2014and that in itself creates another power differential\u2014filing these baseless, baseless applications one after the other to remain in control long after the relationship had ended. It\u2019s that relentlessness of the harassment that we heard about from people, that it really had driven them to the brink of despair. We know that those stories and those accounts that were shared with us during this process are not isolated cases but are actually part of a larger, more systemic issue, and it demands, rightly so, the attention of this House today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThis bill directly addresses this problem and empowers judges to identify and to stop those legal actions that are intended, for no other intents and purposes, simply to cause harm and to harass victims and that, essentially, amount to psychological abuse. If we equip the courts with this authority, we can prevent perpetrators from continuing this behaviour and from actually turning our legal system into a weapon, and that should be something that\u2019s within everybody\u2019s interests. This is a necessary step to ensure that our justice system actually serves its true purpose, which is to protect victims and to deliver justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWe also heard from advocacy groups who have strongly supported these measures. Victim Support have emphasised that litigation abuse is not only another form of domestic violence but it\u2019s also played out in the courtroom, but also, given the high, high prevalence of intimate partner violence in New Zealand, they argue that it is really a top priority for us to remove those barriers and to ensure that there is no further harm. This bill represents a critical step, I think, in making Family Court systems safer and more equitable for those that need it most.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThere are other bills that are doing that\u2014it would be remiss of me not to take the opportunity to talk about my own bill, which is about giving evidence in the Family Court and making sure that the people in the Family Court, as they are in other courts, are afforded the ability to do so at a distance or behind screens, given that the Family Court, as we all know, or we should know, is quite an informal setting, and therefore the informality of that setting in and of itself can be another form of intimidation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThis bill represents and is indicative, I think, of Labour\u2019s work in the past to protect survivors of family and sexual violence. Some of that work has included the biggest ever investment in family violence and sexual violence prevention and support services. That\u2019s something on this side of the House that we\u2019re very proud of and that a lot of people worked hard on to make sure that it was implementable, it was sensible, that there was good grounds for the policy, and that it serves people well. Also, the introduction of family violence leave may seem like a small step and may seem like a small measure, but for someone who finds themselves in a situation where they\u2019re in turmoil and they\u2019re balancing all of these other considerations\u2014and the thought of losing your job, which may be the only thing that tethers you to normality whilst you\u2019re going through all of this upheaval, by simply not being able to take a couple of days off to move to safety and to do all of the necessary things to regain that independence\u2014it is, I think, a really good investment. Also, the introduction of new offences like strangulation better reflect the severity of family and sexual violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EAs I said in the beginning, it\u2019s certainly within my lifetime that domestic violence and violence within the household was not even considered a crime. It was considered a relationship issue, something to be worked out behind closed doors, something for society and the police and neighbours and communities not to cast an eye over, as if they were casting aspersions over the relationship itself. I think that this is another part of that puzzle, and there\u2019s still certainly much, much more to do. Of course, introducing this bill to provide the courts with greater powers to stop litigation abuse is part of that puzzle as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWe heard from the previous contributor that there was some dismay at this side of the House suggesting that the Government doesn\u2019t appear to have much of a plan in so far as tackling crime and tackling the drivers of crime, and I stand by that and I reiterate that today. I don\u2019t see much of a plan. It\u2019s one thing to talk tough about crime and it\u2019s one thing to rattle off a list of things that are happening in the Justice Committee, but whether they are efficacious or not, whether they\u2019re grounded in decent policy formation or not, or whether they\u2019re just a signal to people to emphasise the fact that the Government thinks they\u2019re tough on crime is a whole other conversation. I don\u2019t think that the Government should be worried about that conversation\u2014if they\u2019re confident in their efforts and if they stand by their actions\u00A0to date, then they\u2019ll be regaling all of the things that they\u2019re doing to be tough on crime instead of just moaning about being held to account for the things that they\u2019re not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House, we don\u2019t think that the Government is doing enough to address the drivers of crime, the stressors and the drivers of crime, and, therefore, for anybody put under those situations, the Government, whether we see the increase in unemployment, whether we see the continuing bite of the cost of living\u2014all of those things impact crime. It\u2019s not enough to rattle off a list of simplistic solutions without looking at the bigger picture. Having said that, with this particular bill, we are happy to recommend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u0022464d2637c3f64bf797decea1b1d6ace5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022464d2637c3f64bf797decea1b1d6ace5\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It must be painful sitting on that side of the House and not being able to imagine a world where you can do more than one thing at once and where you can address both the drivers of crime and address those that have committed a crime. It must be difficult for those who have left these benches because they weren\u2019t effective at doing anything, to see effectiveness on this side of the House. It must be difficult to hold two truths: that we are dealing with the drivers of crime at the same time as looking after and supporting victims of crime, because as much as we do to address the drivers of crime, the reality is there are still people out there who are undertaking and doing crime, and New Zealanders elected this Government to get tough on that and sort it out and make sure that victims were recognised in the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EThe bill that we are about to turn into law, the Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill, is doing just that. It is ensuring that we put focus on victims. There were five key points that we addressed through the submissions, the hard-working Justice Committee that is doing that work, to get and restore law and order in this country. We made sure that we were recognising that this is frequently occurring in family violence issues and needs to be addressed. There were a number of issues relating to access to justice rights that were touched on, and the bill balances the objectives that were being affected there. Approximately one-quarter of submitters raised various concerns about the bill\u2019s impact on children, and the select committee made amendments in that regard. Submitters expressed concern that provisions could harm victims, and there were safeguards put in place to address that. Submitters also highlighted the need for systemic change, and many of these suggestions we are taking into account in our wider policy programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that can do more than one thing at once, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u00226c0194e98cdc47af8025c18696d99be9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c0194e98cdc47af8025c18696d99be9\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I want to come back to the start of this bill. The bill started, actually not in this House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ce9ccb4d8594325a49182b81ebebf21\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: In the dying days of the Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226eba68ebc0404f47b5de959ff8c96dcc\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: It started\u2014maybe listen\u2014with victims going to talk to MPs, like myself and like many in this House about the situation they faced. The guy can heckle if he likes, but actually I\u2019m going to tell some pretty tough stories that I heard as a local MP. That\u2019s up to him if he wants to listen or if he wants to just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f412e8fadfc487684c31840df94cd36\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Heckle away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6806c15628a4158b1ef93b2b228d8c1\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yeah, heckle away on such a serious matter. In 2022, I was approached by two women in Nelson\u2014one Adele Keefe, who\u2019s part of an organisation called Mana W\u0101hine, and another woman who I won\u2019t name. I have permission to share her story, but I\u2019m going to keep her name secret. The reason I\u2019m going to keep her name secret is that, when she actually spoke about her story on her Facebook page and the police said that she hadn\u2019t committed any crime in doing so, her former partner actually took legal action against her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThis woman has suffered serious health issues as a result of the family violence she experienced for a number of years, and she came to talk to me about it. She suffered emotional abuse, physical abuse, a lot of financial abuse, a lot of not paying child support in particular, but also litigation abuse in what we often will call vexatious litigation. She came to see me in 2022, this woman and Adele Keefe. I organised a meeting with the\u00A0then Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence, Marama Davidson, who had a meeting with them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI also talked to Dr Emily Henderson; I want to acknowledge her. Emily Henderson had a list of things she wanted to fix in the Family Court, and I went and wrote on her whiteboard \u201Clitigation abuse\u201D. As a group of MPs, we talked about this and many other issues. This is one of many issues because there were many other stories like the ones I\u2019ve just told that came to MPs from across the House to raise this issue, and it became apparent also from organisations like Women\u2019s Refuge that this was something that we needed to fix.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge Ginny Andersen, who was the Minister who introduced this bill into the House in August 2023. I will put on record my concern that it\u2019s taken until now for this bill to actually work its way through. I appreciate there\u2019ve been some changes, but for the people who have been at the end of this abuse, it has cost them so much of their lives. It\u2019s cost them time with their children. It has cost them money. The point made by these two women who came to see me was that often the people taking this type of vexatious litigation self-represent. They go to court on behalf of themselves, which means they are not racking up a bill, but the people who are having to respond are racking up a massive legal bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EMy best friend lost her house because of this. She lost hundreds of thousands of dollars because her ex continued to take her to court. When the house was sold, she lost everything. There\u2019s a real impact on the people who are on the receiving end of this type of abuse, and their children, and all of society. I look at this particular woman whose story I\u2019m sharing today. I\u2019ve been reading through some of her statements again today. The impact on her health and wellbeing has been astronomical. I\u2019m not going to go into the details, because I\u2019ve promised her I won\u2019t share her name or anything that identifies her, but I sent her a message today to say this bill is finally passing, and she is absolutely delighted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI want to thank all members of this House who are voting for this today, and the Justice Committee for doing the work that they did. I want to go back to that work, that whiteboard of ideas that Emily Henderson put together. We need to keep working through the rest of the parts of that list. I know she\u2019ll probably be sending us all emails with the next thing she wants us to do. We need to do those things, because we need to ensure that we end family violence in this country, and actually taking steps like this today is one way we can help to do that. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u0022541b2686a4f445348ad68cafeec525af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022541b2686a4f445348ad68cafeec525af\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s an honour to speak in support of the Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EMany speakers have mentioned the abuse, and the nature of that abuse, that\u2019s perpetuated by people in family situations and in other forums, but it all comes down to intimidation and control. Understanding the many multitude of ways that people that have that kind of attitude, that kind of entitled feeling that they are able to control others, where that comes from and where that originates is probably a multitude of ways but, often, it\u2019s their own trauma\u2014and I\u2019m not excusing that, but I\u2019m just saying that this is often a cyclical thing that happens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EIf we want to address the causes of crime and violence and family harm, we need better education systems, we need our families to be strong, and we need to have higher incomes so that stress on families isn\u2019t as great. Everything that this Government is doing\u2014everything that we\u2019re doing\u2014to support children through the education system and help them to learn, everything that we\u2019re doing to boost and grow our economy, is so that we can make people\u2019s incomes better, we can reduce the stress of the cost of living, and so that we can actually help families to thrive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EThis is about supporting mainly women, and I think that this, along with other bills that we\u2019ve got coming through, like stalking, is really going to help. I\u2019m really proud that our Government is finishing this off, and I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6641f0669df47cfa19e88f5fd141ac5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6641f0669df47cfa19e88f5fd141ac5\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This is actually the first time I\u2019ve spoken on this particular bill. I\u2019m really pleased that it\u2019s gotten to this stage, that it will go through the House today with unanimous support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to commend the Hon Ginny Andersen, the Minister from the Labour Party who brought it to this House before the election with the support of many in the House, and I\u2019d like to commend the Minister of Justice from the National Party who carried on the work and has ensured that this bill has gotten right through the process. It\u2019s good to see\u2014people sometimes don\u2019t believe that parliamentarians agree on things, but there are times when we actually do get together and agree on things because it is the right thing to do. I\u2019m grateful to all of our colleagues right across the House who have worked on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of names that I want to highlight in terms of this particular bill, the Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill. One has been mentioned already, and that was Dr Emily Henderson, who is our former colleague from Whang\u0101rei, who spent a term in Parliament and took a courageous decision to stand down because she said, \u201CActually, this is not really the place I want to be in.\u201D She did a great job as an MP, and I think that\u2019s kind of an interesting thing for someone to do\u2014to say, \u201CActually, I\u2019m going to go back to what I was doing previously.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe interesting thing is that what Em was doing previously was working in precisely this area, working around the areas of family breakdown, of family violence, and working in the court system to work with women and children, and not just working in cases, but also operating at the level where she was advocating for more work to be done. This was something that Dr Henderson very much wanted to see happening\u2014that people could no longer use the court system to carry on their abuse. This is a win for our former colleague, Dr Emily Henderson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also a win for The Backbone Collective, whose name hasn\u2019t been mentioned yet today. The Backbone Collective is a group of women and organisations who are fighting for the cause of addressing family violence and addressing some of the legal barriers around family violence, and really working to overturn some of the systemic things that perpetuate violence in this country. There is so much that needs to be done in this space, and people have addressed some of the work that needs to be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI am just going to refer to something that my colleague Ginny Andersen mentioned\u2014and it is quite distressing\u2014and that is the extent to which police are no longer able to go to family violence calls. That is worrying. That, alas, is the bottom of the cliff; we actually want to stop the abuse before it gets there. This bill is part of stopping the ongoing abuse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe Backbone Collective have advocated for a long time that we need to get rid of litigation abuse. They formed in 2017 and they\u2019ve worked and worked and worked towards that\u2014so, again, a win for The Backbone Collective today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EBut there is more work to be done. There is all the material that was on Dr Henderson\u2019s whiteboard that my colleague Rachel Boyack referred to. There\u2019s one I particularly want to refer to because it\u2019s not necessarily a matter of legislation\u2014it may not be able to be fixed from this House, although it can be fixed from the Government and at least worked on from the Government\u2014and that is the education of judges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EOur judges are highly educated in the law and so on. We have many, many excellent judges, and I think most of our judges are excellent most of the time. Of course, none of us is perfect, and some of the time\u2014well, all of us make mistakes some of the time, or perhaps have blind spots some of the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a phenomenon, an alleged syndrome, called parental alienation syndrome. The idea is that a parent\u2014a couple that\u2019s separating or whatever\u2014may influence the children in such a way that they are separated from the other parent, that they are alienated from the other parent. Commonly, and it\u2019s pretty common, a woman who claims\u2014I\u2019m going to use that word \u201Cclaims\u201D\u2014that a child has been physically or sexually abused and that her ex-partner was the perpetrator will be warned not to pursue that in the courts because it is viewed as her attempting to alienate the children\u2019s father from them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, all the research shows that there is actually no such thing as parental alienation syndrome. It\u2019s been dreamed up. But as it turns out\u2014and we can see this in some of the judgments given by some of our judges, because everyone makes mistakes\u2014some of them seem to believe in this. There\u2019s education work that needs to be done with our judges in that area around this alleged parental alienation syndrome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EAlso I\u2019m going to argue there\u2019s education that needs to be done now around this litigation abuse. We are passing the law. We are asking the judges to do something different. Now, the funding needs to be allocated so that judges can spend a bit of time getting up to speed with this, getting to understand it, and getting to really recognise those patterns of domestic violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWe know that try as they might\u2014and I know our judges do try with good faith\u2014try as they can to be fair, sometimes they do, perhaps, not get it as right as they could. You can see I\u2019m trying to be very careful\u2014I don\u2019t want to criticise our judiciary, because they are, by and large, wonderful, and I\u2019ve met marvellous judges who are doing brilliant work\u2014but this is a space where more work and more education needs to be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIt is a good day, that we are getting this piece of legislation through. We should feel pleased about the degree of agreement across the House on it, but we shouldn\u2019t pat ourselves on the back too much. There is much more to be done in this space, and I hope that people right across the House are committed to getting more work done in this area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022d33ab04888b1450b9709395179620e29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d33ab04888b1450b9709395179620e29\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. There have been many speeches given this afternoon on the importance of this legislation, and I commend members from across the House for their delivery on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EHaving the opportunity to rise as the final speaker on the Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill before it becomes law is a real privilege. It\u2019s going to make some serious amendments that will strengthen the courts\u2019 ability to identify and respond to instances where individuals attempt to use the court system to harass, annoy, harm, or psychologically abuse another person\u2014that is, quite clearly, never the intention for why things should go to court. It\u2019s not the place for those things to be taking place. They shouldn\u2019t take place anywhere in New Zealand, frankly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EIt gives me great pleasure to commend the bill to the House, to allow it to go into law, and to ensure that New Zealand is continuously improving as a nation. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222d381b7331bb40e3af37aea0963317a6\u0022\u003EAnti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002299023c72edc44906bc60601f9cb14596\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022021c1e9269764a088b56c4637cf2d039\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022021c1e9269764a088b56c4637cf2d039\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cd68cfa288947c88b39ec0f2411e38f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe9cb68b0c4048a8b7313291b075b79d\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Justice Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI have heard from many New Zealanders that the current regulatory regime for anti-money laundering and countering financing of terrorism (AMLCFT) is overly burdensome and, in some places, confusing for businesses trying to meet their obligations. The bill is one step towards delivering regulatory relief to people in New Zealand and removing the red tape that is holding productivity in this country back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIt was prepared alongside the justice regulatory systems amendment bill package, which should soon have its first reading. This means that the amendments this bill contains are focused on addressing legislative gaps and ambiguity, removing unnecessary red tape, and making continuous improvements to justice regulatory systems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThis bill makes 26 amendments that will improve the effectiveness, the efficiency, and\u00A0consistency of the anti-money laundering regulatory regime for the benefit of Kiwi businesses; support the better functioning of the responsible agencies; and improve New Zealand\u2019s compliance with international standards. This is important to help us maintain our international reputation in our next financial action taskforce assessment in 2029 and\u00A0to ensure smooth access for New Zealand\u2019s businesses to the international financial system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe Government is introducing these changes following a financial action taskforce evaluation of our anti-money laundering regime and a subsequent review of the Anti-money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Act\u2014AMLCFT Act. This is one part of a broader work programme being progressed by the Ministry of Justice, which will build on these amendments and further improve the effectiveness and the efficiency of the AMLCFT regime. These changes include a new single-supervisor model, the introduction of a levy, and a wider regulatory package of reforms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThis bill responds to the conclusions of this review of the Act. For example, it reduces unnecessary compliance costs to businesses through amendments that clarify existing obligations and terminology, making the Act easier to understand and easier to apply in the real world. These changes address key difficulties for many low-risk businesses who are currently required to undertake onerous checks even when there is clearly very little risk. These are part of the Government\u2019s plan to make the AMLCFT system work better, with less overly prescriptive requirements, by allowing businesses to take measures in line with the actual risks that they face. This bill will support that change in approach by clarifying the statutes of guidance on risk so that businesses are equipped to make the call on the level of risk involved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI won\u2019t go through each amendment one by one, but I would like to highlight some specific changes that will clarify obligations and offer some relief for New Zealand businesses. Firstly, we are relaxing the requirements for businesses to conduct customer due diligence for low-risk trusts. Trusts can be vulnerable to being used for money-laundering and terrorist financing, but in New Zealand, there are a large number of trusts that present a\u00A0low risk, such as many small family trusts. Currently, businesses must apply the same enhanced customer due-diligence requirements to all trusts, regardless of the risk, costing them unnecessary time and money. This bill will allow for the application of standard customer due-diligence measures for low-risk trusts that are more proportionate to the risks that they represent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EAnother amendment in this bill is the removal of the requirement for people to submit a border cash report if they have received cash from someone who physically moved the cash\u00A0into New Zealand. This requirement is nonsensical, considering that the person bringing\u00A0in the accompanied cash must also complete a border cash report. This duplication is unnecessary, and that is why this Government is going to get rid of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThese changes and others will support a better functioning anti-money laundering regime. They are also part of a wider work programme to improve the regime and will support delivering on this Government\u2019s promise to install confidence in Kiwi businesses to meet their money-laundering obligations whilst helping to rebuild a thriving economy. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022564eea4ffd0e40848a39f903ae96c62a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022564eea4ffd0e40848a39f903ae96c62a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00227417d7d168a1451d95fa40df3f46dddd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227417d7d168a1451d95fa40df3f46dddd\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I rise today to speak in support of the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Amendment Bill. Many of the initial changes for anti - money-laundering (AML) came through under the previous John Key National Government, and I remember working on those and identifying where the weaknesses were in the New Zealand system in order to make some of the changes that closed loops and made it harder for organised criminal groups to exploit New Zealand as a way of cleaning dirty money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s some key areas that we need to be aware of that New Zealand is vulnerable to. Shell companies have known well that New Zealand is an easy place to set up a shell company\u2014a relatively easy company registration has been exploited by criminals in the past. The other area that we\u2019ve seen, from my experience, is also real estate. When foreign buyers were able to purchase properties in New Zealand, we saw substantial residential homes being purchased for cash and kept empty for a number of years, and then on-sold. With the reconsidering of opening up our property market to foreign buyers, we need to also be vigilant that we\u2019re not opening up opportunities for New Zealand to be exploited.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWe support the legislation and we support the slight relaxing of some of the areas in here, but we do err with a word of caution in terms of what we\u2019re facing globally now. In the past year\u2014roughly a year, year and a half\u2014we have seen an exponential increase in the prevalence of methamphetamine in our waste-water testing. We have the highest levels of meth coming into New Zealand that we have ever seen. That methamphetamine is sold, and that money must be cleaned, and so we need to be watching where organised criminal groups are taking the profits from the record levels of methamphetamine in New Zealand, and how they are cleaning that. It\u2019s good that we\u2019re making it easier and going for productivity and all that, but, at the same time, what\u2019s the point of taking a gang patch off someone if you\u2019re enabling them to peddle meth and clean that money in a dirty business?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIn terms of the main changes that this bill does, it relaxes the customer due diligence requirements for low-risk customers, and it\u2019s important that we understand exactly how we are establishing those criteria for what is a low-risk customer, because one of the many ways that criminal operatives work is that they specifically identify \u201Ccleanskins\u201D, or someone without a previous criminal record, to be able to use that individual to complete a transaction to launder money, and police are well aware of those behaviours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIn saying that, in terms of identifying cleanskins, I should acknowledge that police do an amazing job, through forensic accounting, of following the money through, putting through complicated systems of how money has passed through various different bank accounts, structures, many of them offshore, and having to work with international counterparts, to identify where that money is coming from and how New Zealand is being utilised in those international networks. We don\u2019t want to be seen as a soft touch in the South Pacific. We want to have a reputation for being a good place to do business, and part of that is having integrity and things like our company structures, like our real estate purchases, and those other institutions that we rely on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis legislation also modifies the definition of a trust and a company service provider. It enables a risk-based approach for identifying politically exposed persons, and it clarifies businesses\u2019 obligations under the Act. The reason why we do support the bill is that we\u2019ve heard from businesses and organisations that the AML countering financing of terrorism (CFT) compliance has been onerous to some, and that time frames can be prohibitive. I understand there are some changes, particularly around the number of days to make it a bit easier for doing business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWe know that we need an AMLCFT programme that works effectively, and it shouldn\u2019t be cumbersome. It needs to be operating well, but we want to make sure that it\u2019s still protecting us and protecting our international reputation and integrity. We know we\u2019ve taken a hit in terms of those rankings recently; we don\u2019t want to see that happen again. It\u2019s important that you submit at select committee if you have views on this bill. We want to be able to consider those all rigorously over that period. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022c032235ce6dc49c987fdf6d8a3319420\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c032235ce6dc49c987fdf6d8a3319420\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I also rise on behalf of the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand in support of the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI think the previous two speakers have mentioned some of the context behind this. The last big update of this particular Act was in 2017, and since then two major assessments have been completed, one of them by the Financial Action Task Force in 2019-21 as part of some of our agreements and obligations under the mutual evaluation of New Zealand. Also, most recently, we have seen the statutory review of the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Amendment Act, which was concluded in 2022; ergo, we come to the bill today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI think the previous speakers have also mentioned some of the areas, in terms of the amendments that are made by the bill. I think the key here that is particularly pertinent as part of the review, and particularly when it comes to the statutory review in 2022, is around having a flexible, risk-based approach to the way that we look at this. I think the previous two speakers have already mentioned a number of instances, such as trusts, such as smaller businesses, that potentially have had the same level of scrutiny and the same level of administrative and compliance burden being placed on them. I think it is important to have that level of risk-based approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EA couple of things I would like to mention in addition\u2014the first one is the fact that I will be interested, as we\u2019re going through the select committee process, in why certain parts and certain recommendations that were conducted by the statutory review weren\u2019t included as part of this amendment bill, and I think some of them may possibly be incorporated into this. The other thing that I\u2019ve noticed in particular, in terms of the amendment that is being presented in front of us, although it\u2019s good and some of these are needed, is it\u2019s still very much focused from the perspective of businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI will just say that, in terms of my personal dealing with this Act previously, working in international education and helping international students, an incredible burden has been placed on international students when opening a bank account in the first place as a result of this Act. The burden has been placed around, in particular, the proof of address process, which I\u2019m sure maybe some of the submitters would be submitting on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI am also interested, as part of the process, as we\u2019re going through select committee, in whether we can look at elements that go beyond what is going to be beneficial and provide that support for businesses as well as providing things sometimes on an individual level, and particularly as we see that this Government is also interested in drawing in more international students. One of the biggest barriers we see for international students when they first come here is that initial barrier of setting up their new life here in Aotearoa New Zealand, and all of the elements of manaakitanga that\u2019s supposed to come along with that. Part of that, like I mentioned, is around this bill and the impact it has on opening a bank account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe last thing I want to mention\u2014that, again, I would like to have seen included as part of this bill, and this was mentioned specifically in the statutory review\u2014is around sanctions obligations, and particularly when looking at financial sanctions to combat terrorism funding and financing. Now, we have seen previously, in the past, that we are looking at sanctions, particularly for countries and areas that have contributed to warfare and to genocide, in the case of the Russia-Ukraine war. I\u2019m also interested, in terms of when we\u2019re looking at this bill, in the role that this bill plays in the ongoing support and ongoing support for domestic businesses in carrying and managing that risk and understanding the material risk of sanctions obligations, and particularly in areas such as what we\u2019re seeing with the Israel-Palestine conflict as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EOverall, the Green Party does support this bill and we are looking forward to submissions and people who understand the ins and outs of the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Amendment Act, as part of the select committee process, but, like I said, there are definitely a few things that the Green Party will be keeping a very close eye on as part of that select committee process. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u00227991b9c176e741cab47fa6f6da11aa21\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227991b9c176e741cab47fa6f6da11aa21\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. As a relatively new member of the Justice Committee, it\u2019s exciting to see\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269fd5a62b710433f8844c0bda1a621c4\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: A valuable member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0bf864bed8b46a3a1d0ba4e08d7b088\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: A valuable member, Mr Bayly. It is great to see new legislation coming to the really hard-working committee, which had plenty over the last 13, 14 months. The workload just keeps ramping up. This is actually really fundamentally vital. Members who have spoken previously, the Minister who was introducing the legislation, and then Labour and the Greens both have thrown their support behind the bill\u2014it\u2019s really positive to\u00A0see. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s about updating our legislation, particularly around anti - money-laundering and countering the financing of terrorism, to ensure that New Zealand is where it needs to be in 2025 and moving forward. It\u2019s critical for safeguarding the financial system and protecting our communities here in New Zealand. These amendments that we\u2019re making through the legislation\u2014and I\u2019m looking forward to seeing what the submissions are from those out in the general public. I would welcome your submissions to the Justice Committee. There\u2019s many out there who will be subject-matter experts on this topic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E We\u2019ve proposed some amendments that are based on extensive reviews and international assessments to ensure continuous improvement. Therefore, I commend it to the House and look forward to hearing the submissions to the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022 data-id=\u0022202f715773254dd2b86672b4ccfbf539\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022202f715773254dd2b86672b4ccfbf539\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to support this first reading of the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Amendment Bill. It\u2019s a mouthful, just the title of this, also known as the AMLCFT for short. Like our previous speaker, I support the bill to the select committee. I think the submissions that are received on the bill will be something that the committee will be informed of. There are a number of aspects that I\u2019ll talk about shortly, that are quite a surprise, about what\u2019s actually happening or can actually happen through the border.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThis bill amends the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Act 2009, and that\u2019s the principal Act, to strengthen New Zealand\u2019s regime against financial crimes. This amendment bill responds to two pieces of work that we\u2019ve already heard about from other members\u2014the Financial Action Task Force that was held between 2019 and 2021, and, secondly, it\u2019s a statutory review of the original Act; that is, the 2009 Act. The intention of this bill is to clarify the obligations, reduce compliance costs, enhance enforcements, and align with international standards. Those international standards are something that we need to make sure are at the correct settings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003ECriminal and terrorist networks are evolving, as we know, and previous speakers have talked about that. They are also using stored-value items. I must say, reading through this legislation, that people in the general public probably do not realise things like casino chips, pre-paid vouchers, and, obviously, now gold being of such a high value\u2014and also our Minister Shane Jones getting the mining industry going, obviously the gold is getting more and more valuable. Those casino chips, in particular, and pre-paid vouchers\u2014it was something that kind of just stunned me a little bit how people try to get around those logical things through the border, probably passport and cash, where now it\u2019s people trying to find other ways, the grey, dark areas, of actually avoiding the transaction of cash, but if you can bring in a voucher or those casino chips, it\u2019s a way of getting past the system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EIn the clauses here, 17 and 21, it\u2019s around the cash reporting. I think that\u2019s something for the committee\u2014around those stored-value instruments, that will be very, very helpful to get more information on. This legislation will, obviously, modernise our regime to keep pace with the international standards while protecting our economy and our community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThere are numerous reasons why New Zealand First supports this bill. It, obviously, closes those loopholes that I\u2019ve just discussed\u2014especially around our border areas. It strengthens enforcement. Obviously, at the moment, there\u2019s a lot of paperwork happening, but it\u2019s actually the enforcement that we want to strengthen. It protects taxpayers and businesses, and it is our businesses that do suffer, especially in the cases that we\u2019re talking about, the vouchers and those casino chips. It upholds our global reputation and futureproofs our laws.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First is committed to putting New Zealand and New Zealanders first, as we know, and we will support all common-sense policies which do the same. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u00220b2a4f4be2ad405dae110802d5d2bbd5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b2a4f4be2ad405dae110802d5d2bbd5\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. New Zealanders are sick of the anti-money laundering requirements that just go too far. Everyone appreciates the need for ensuring that New Zealand meets the requirements of our international standards, and this bill will ensure that we continue to do that, but it also recognises that we\u00A0just need to wind the clock back a little bit, make it more practical for Kiwis, for businesses, for small businesses, to get on and do the things that actually create wealth in this country, that drive productivity, and make this country tick. I commend this bill to the\u00A0House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u00225e542b2fe5344e34819316af3685e500\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e542b2fe5344e34819316af3685e500\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E This week, New Zealand lost its coveted first place, not in a sporting event but actually in the Transparency International Corruption Perceptions Index, and we dropped from first to fourth. There were some really surprising remarks, actually, from the Acting Prime Minister, Winston Peters, saying he thought we didn\u2019t actually deserve the first place in the first place, which I found quite astounding. We\u2019re really keen to get back up to first place, and this legislation will go a little way towards doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI would temper my remarks, though, by also referring to remarks made by the Transparency International New Zealand chair, Anne Tolley, who said that to really safeguard our interests from this kind of terrorism and money-laundering threat, we need to do three big things. The first is a public register of beneficial ownership. That\u2019s important because, as I\u2019ll come to later in my contribution, the beneficial ownership has been clarified as being a target of the bill. Without a public register, I am wondering about whether that will be achievable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EShe also mentioned the financial transparency of political parties. Now, that is top of mind for a lot of people at the moment with some of the shenanigans we\u2019re seeing around this place and with some of the legislation, including things like the fast-track bill. So we would welcome, I think, financial transparency of political parties, and I do see that as part of the broader framework that\u2019s needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThe last one is transparency around lobbying, and we have also seen some debate in this place over the last two parliamentary terms, when it comes to the revolving door of lobbyists. Certainly, we\u2019ve seen that this parliamentary term with questions of the influence of big tobacco on current legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThat is the framework that Anne Tolley suggests, and this transparency bill, the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Amendment Bill, would go some way towards doing that. When I look at the bill itself, it is something of an omnibus bill. It mainly looks at the primary legislation, but it does have some input into regulatory systems, courts, tribunals, and occupational regulations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EA bit of a summary: I have mentioned the controlling interests, and really what the bill is trying to do is to look at the controlling interests and to target those who control these nefarious activities, rather than the middle people. The bill does go some way to doing that, but it also looks at the beneficial parties\u2014so those who directly benefit from the activities. I think that\u2019s good in terms of achieving the bill\u2019s objectives, which are around efficiency and effectiveness. Often when we look at efficiency and effectiveness, they seem to have a tension between them, but in this case, I think it is really about targeting, and the bill does seem to go some way to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThe last thing I\u2019d like to mention is just the politically exposed person, because when we\u2019re looking at beneficial owners\u2014and I\u2019ve mentioned that the benefit doesn\u2019t necessarily flow through under this Act\u2014companies and organisations are not caught, which I query, but the beneficial owners could be politically exposed persons. I just wanted to contribute a little bit about what that might mean, because there is a common understanding in the financial world about who politically exposed people are. It doesn\u2019t mean that they\u2019re involved in nefarious activity, but it does mean that they could be regarded as being of higher risk, and so, therefore, there is now a duty of care on handling those interests to make sure that they have a proportionate framework.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI think the flexibility in the legislation seems to do that really well, because there will be different politically exposed people with different levels of risk attached to them. They are considered higher risk because of their conspicuous position or because of the connections that they have globally. The Financial Action Task Force in New Zealand defines them as including people like Government officials, senior executives, relatives of those people, and, of course, politicians.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EMy final contribution, really, is from my experience in Fiji, where there was money-laundering. There\u2019s a report from 2016 from Transparency International that talks about how most of it relates to narcotics. We don\u2019t want to see that happen in New Zealand. Ginny Andersen has also mentioned that we are starting to see some of the corrupt big business in New Zealand with drugs and narcotics getting involved in money-laundering. This bill will go some way to protecting us and some way to helping us get back to our number one spot on the index.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u00223562a969e1e640218741119c8d0b69f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223562a969e1e640218741119c8d0b69f0\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s an honour to rise and speak in this debate on this bill. Anti - money-laundering should be something that we all agree is a bad thing. Money-laundering is a bad thing. Yes, we all know that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295c351aecae5473b870d51a433284ec7\u0022\u003EHon James Meager\u003C/span\u003E: Money-laundering: bad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6cee32c00eb4d76b24e245e815468c2\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK\u003C/span\u003E: Money-laundering: bad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256fe38294be941babc77ee88b33fac9f\u0022\u003EHon James Meager\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, terrible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220380cffb19a3408e992704df1865ad5f\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it\u2019s a terrible thing, but in doing this process of making it harder for money-laundering and for crime, we\u2019ve made it harder for businesses, we\u2019ve made it harder for everyday New Zealanders just to get a loan, just to get a mortgage\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255bbfc41469d4bd683d5a183510df5ef\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: Try being a farmer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253ce5d396c374b6fa29db2efd283dbd6\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, for farmers, it\u2019s absolutely painful. Try being a director of a company. Try being someone who has tried to buy a property through a trust. Any of these things are absolutely tedious. Changing this and making it simpler for business is one more thing we\u2019re doing to make it simpler for business, one more way we\u2019re getting rid of red tape, and I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u002291f2030c67e349a3b27003bb54ffb0c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291f2030c67e349a3b27003bb54ffb0c2\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. We make laws in this Parliament to protect people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228aff10feef5941a4813ec17f9196d329\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Good start.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220af8cd979c76437584f866d56f9ee125\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yep. Do you want me to carry on? We make these\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264528d68155e440c97ae5b92c0a1fd30\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Please carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250bf23d35927451e827c32df78a70d37\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: We make laws to protect people, to protect our communities, and to protect our businesses, and I believe that red tape is important, but as was just said by the previous speaker, Dr Vanessa Weenink, at times we need to consider that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThe good thing about doing statutory reviews of legislation is that we can look, we can tweak, we can critique the different pieces of legislation that may have been around for a short time or may have been around for a long time. It\u2019s good, as I read up and look at this piece of legislation, that work has been done over recent years to consider: is this stuff appropriate, is it an enabler, or does it slow things down? Does it actually provide the protections that it says it does, or is it actually just making things harder for some businesses and those who are wanting to look at different situations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, as I looked and read, back in 2022, the statutory review began, and it\u2019s good to reflect and see that it is thorough and that we actually spend time. Often, from the outside of these walls, people think\u2014and, again, I guess occasionally, some groups do slap random laws in. But there\u2019s a lot of work that\u2019s been done behind the scenes to reflect, to review, and to see what is working and what is not working. There\u2019s consultation; there\u2019s feedback asked for; and this bill, as it stands today, has had a thorough process long before it\u2019s made it into this House this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThe 26 proposals that are in this were looked at from the 2020 review, which was including internal and external connections and recommendations that were made. There were people like Crown Law Office, Department of Corrections, Department of Internal Affairs, Inland Revenue Department, Ministry of Defence, Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, just to name a few. Then there was feedback, which we looked at as the work was done, in terms of where does this fit, is it working, is it not working, what are the barriers that were put in place? That\u2019s where we have feedback from people like the Chief Victims Advisor, like the Financial Markets Authority, like the New Zealand Police, and the Public Defence Service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s good when we can stand in this House and support a piece of legislation that has evidence behind it; when we support a piece of legislation that has gone through a process to say, \u201COK, we did some settings. We set some things up a number of years ago; those things, are they relevant today? Well, actually, there\u2019s some things we could do to simplify, to make it easier for the process.\u201D When it comes to anti - money-laundering, when it comes to countering financing of terrorism, there are some things that we can do. As the Minister who introduced this bill, the Hon Nicole McKee, said, there will be 26 changes that will be made, which have come from conversation, from consultation, and from reviewing where it\u2019s at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, I look forward to this moving forward and going into the select committee process, because, as the Government\u2014they love a good select committee, and, hopefully, they\u2019ll love a good, fulsome six-month select committee, where it takes its time and it goes through the process of allowing the public, allowing engagement from those who are at the front line of this. You look at people like sole-trader lawyers, sole-trader real estate agents. For them, we look forward to hearing their reflections on it, because some of the big businesses, they can suck up a lot of the work, the cost that goes in, but you think of some of those lawyers out in the provinces, some of those real estate agents out in the provinces who are just trading by themselves and have said, \u201CLook, there\u2019s just too much red tape in this piece of legislation. How can we actually make it work better for ourselves, which actually works better for our country?\u201D\u2014because that\u2019s the thing with productivity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThis is law that we support, and we look forward to going to select committee, putting it out there for the people of New Zealand to continue to have their say\u2014as they have since 2022, in terms of the review of this piece of legislation. Madam Speaker, on this side of the House, the Labour Party supports this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u00228f21ca224b6f4b2285f71204759f13a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f21ca224b6f4b2285f71204759f13a6\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER (Minister for the South Island):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. We\u2019re now talking about the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Amendment Bill, or AMLCFT, as it\u2019s known to my friends.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EWe support this bill. The intention behind the Act, when it was first introduced a few years ago, was of course to prevent money-laundering. It has worked relatively well, but probably too well in some instances, and has caused some issues which have gummed up the system. Our job now is to un-gum it. The select committee will do its best to make sure that the bill gets thoroughly scrutinised and that the Act that comes out is well and truly un-gummed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI worked for a unnamed law firm, which\u2014I hope I don\u2019t breach privilege; oh, well!\u2014had to do anti - money-laundering on a very large Government department, and that doesn\u2019t make sense. Hopefully, sensible changes like this mean that we don\u2019t have to go through those absurd steps but we can still protect our country and our nation from things like terrorism and the activities that nefarious actors undertake with money-laundering. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EWith that, I commend the bill to the House and look forward to its passage to the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022835c3d1882744b8dadc090782f169f65\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022835c3d1882744b8dadc090782f169f65\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Amendment Bill be considered by the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002293998418b31944b6907c8c29d56c5dbe\u0022\u003ERegulatory Systems (Occupational Regulation) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002293998418b31944b6907c8c29d56c5dbe\u0022\u003ERegulatory Systems (Tribunals) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002293998418b31944b6907c8c29d56c5dbe\u0022\u003ERegulatory Systems (Courts) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c3941420aa57492cbdb653a8b0499908\u0022\u003EFirst Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u00223ab8633597f94e7c8e4a10a3a63abe01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ab8633597f94e7c8e4a10a3a63abe01\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Minister for Courts):\u003C/span\u003E I present the legislative statements on the following three bills, the Regulatory Systems (Occupational Regulation) Amendment Bill, Regulatory Systems (Tribunals) Amendment Bill, and the Regulatory Systems (Courts) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229984b252a18243bcb0d9adfcd5e22a07\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those legislative statements are published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236d61b36999046df85b779cbf9e223ce\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Regulatory Systems (Occupational Regulation) Amendment Bill, the Regulatory Systems (Tribunals) Amendment Bill, and the Regulatory Systems (Courts) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Justice Committee to consider the bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI am very pleased to introduce these three regulatory systems amendment bills to the House today. These bills will improve legislation and deliver on key priorities of this Government. Together, they will strengthen the quality of existing regulation, improve court timeliness, and enhance access to justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe three bills make 63 substantive changes across 24 Acts. This long list of amendments will deliver positive impacts to a wide variety of people and sectors in New Zealand. The amendments included in these bills range from addressing legislative gaps in ambiguity, to removing unnecessary red tape and making continuous improvements to justice regulatory systems. It is important that we progress these bills as they will help to ensure New Zealand\u2019s regulatory systems remain up to date and also fit for purpose. I\u2019m pleased to have worked closely with Justice Minister Goldsmith on these bills to deliver these improvements for Kiwis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI will now provide a quick summary of each of the three bills and the benefits that they\u00A0bring. The Regulatory Systems (Occupational Regulation) Amendment Bill includes amendments that will increase operational efficiencies for regulators, reduce compliance burdens to regulated parties, and strengthen the regimes by addressing gaps that could harm consumers. This bill makes 17 amendments across the three occupational regulation regimes that are administered by the Ministry of Justice. Firstly, in the lawyers and conveyancers regime, we are looking to increase the efficiency of the lawyers complaints system, address an ongoing issue regarding the enforceability of conveyancers undertakings, and ensure the Act is up to date and functional.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWe are also making changes to the real estate agents regime to reduce the compliance burden on real estate agents and increase the ability of the Real Estate Authority to fulfil its functions and better protect consumers. For example, the bill loosens the current, strict timing requirements around renewing licences for real estate agents. This means that if a real estate agent misses their licence renewal date, they can have up to 12 months to renew rather than needing to go through the extra steps involved in the new licence application. This will allow flexibility and reduce the compliance burden for those who miss their renewal\u2014for example, when we experience unforeseen circumstances such as the severe weather events in the North Island in early 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ELastly, in this bill, we are amending the Prostitution Reform Act. We need to make certain that people who are convicted of serious offences are disqualified from being licensed to run prostitution businesses. In this respect, the bill corrects a number of cross-references to offences in the Crimes Act 1961.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe second bill in this package, the Regulatory Systems (Tribunals) Amendment Bill, makes amendments to improve the operation and efficiency of tribunals and quasi-judicial bodies. These amendments will reduce barriers to accessing justice, simplify the appointment process to tribunal bodies, and resolve inconsistencies in the legislation governing their operations. They affect the disputes tribunal, the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal, the tenancy tribunal, the Private Security Personnel Licensing Authority, and the Parole Board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EOne of the amendments we\u2019re making in this bill will complement the increase to the financial jurisdiction of the disputes tribunal that the Minister of Justice introduced in November last year. This change will allow referees to order the respondent to pay the filing fee to successful claimants. This will enable people to recoup the costs of enforcing their legal rights at the disputes tribunal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EAnother change is to the Private Security Personnel Licensing Authority, which licenses people to work in the security industry and disciplines licence holders. The Department of Internal Affairs currently investigates licence applicants and complaints against security personnel, and the bill makes this function explicit. In order to fulfil this function, we are granting the department an information-gathering power. This will be accompanied by an associated offence and penalties for not complying with the notice for information. This power is consistent with the original policy intent for the role of the department, and it should improve compliance and enforcement in the private-security sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe final bill in the package is the Regulatory Systems (Courts) Amendment Bill, and it\u00A0is targeted at improving the efficiency and the operation of the courts. It supports this Government\u2019s priority of improving court timeliness and boosting the access to justice. The\u00A0Government recognises the very real impact that court delays have on people, whether they\u2019re victims, defendants, or others that are involved in court proceedings. Delays in court processes can prevent people from moving forward with their lives and getting the closure that they need. This bill addresses the issues that impact the efficient operation of our courts through a suite of amendments across the criminal, civil, employment, family, and coronial jurisdictions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EFor one, this bill will improve timeliness and access to justice in the Family Court. Judges will have more time to progress complex cases, because of the changes in this\u00A0bill, to better utilise Family Court Associates to take on a wider range of responsibilities. The bill also makes permanent several of the temporary courts-related amendments that were\u00A0made during the COVID-19 pandemic. These amendments will improve and provide greater flexibility in the administration of jury selection\u2014for example, by enabling the selection of large jury panels to occur outside of the court precinct in certain situations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe bill also makes amendments that will relieve administrative burdens on coroners. As an example, currently the Coroners Act 2006 requires evidence to be put into writing and read over by or to the witness. The bill amends the Coroners Act to allow evidence to be admitted if the coroner is satisfied that the evidence is accurate. This change will relieve the burden of these requirements and enable a broader range of evidence to be admitted to the Coroner\u2019s Court, such as CCTV footage. Other amendments in the bill will enable coroners to better direct their resources to where they are most needed, and in doing so, they will be reducing wait times and uncertainty for grieving families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ETo conclude, the diversity of issues covered in these bills clearly shows that the justice system touches the lives of many. That\u2019s why these bills are delivering on this Government\u2019s commitment to improve access to justice, court timeliness, and the quality of existing regulation. I\u2019m confident that this will have a positive impact on the lives of all the people who have contact with New Zealand\u2019s courts and the wider justice system. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00227a08c5975f3f40a2835792356d88459d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a08c5975f3f40a2835792356d88459d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u002275da3fda27034aa29925790c8b7cdc35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275da3fda27034aa29925790c8b7cdc35\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to take a call on these three bills. It\u2019s an absolutely impossible task to cover everything that is covered in these three bills in five minutes, so I won\u2019t attempt to do that, but I will say that we will be supporting these bills through to select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThese regulatory systems bills are really designed to fix problems that can get cross-party\u00A0support, and to make all of our systems in New Zealand\u2014specifically in relation to courts, tribunals, and a few different particular occupational groups\u2014work more efficiently. This is not a new thing to have in Parliament; this has been done by previous Governments as well.\u00A0I thank Minister McKee for her much more fulsome explanation than I will be able to give on\u00A0the content of these bills, but I did just want to make a few comments, before resuming my seat, on some of the thoughts that I\u2019ve had when assessing these three different bills. Obviously, they do have a relationship with the anti \u2013 money-laundering bill which was previously discussed, and I understand it will be referred to the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EJust in terms of the courts and tribunal ones, first there\u2019s a number of comments that the\u00A0Minister made around access to justice. This is a very important principle that we in the\u00A0Labour Party share, and it\u2019s heartening to hear the Minister talk about boosting access to justice, because at the moment we are seeing a number of other policies in different areas actually impeding that. It is good to see that this is a value that she too shares with us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThe Regulatory Systems (Courts) Amendment Bill covers some changes to jury selection and balloting, which has always been of particular interest to me. I was always deeply upset that as a law student and then a lawyer, I would not be able to be selected for a jury, and, unfortunately, I don\u2019t think this bill addresses that issue; I don\u2019t think they\u2019re particularly keen on MPs either. That\u2019s maybe something for the Minister to consider in another bill perhaps, but anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThe main bill that I focused on when I was preparing to comment on these three bills was the Regulatory Systems (Occupational Regulation) Amendment Bill, and that\u2019s because I\u2019m Labour\u2019s spokesperson for workplace relations. I did read this bill through in great detail and looked at all of the components of it. You might ask what a lawyer, a prostitute, and a real estate agent have in common. The answer to that question is they are all affected by the contents of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5a9eb6f294b467a893f543e4c072183\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: I thought it was getting interesting there!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226714c7aa6b97422094a9e1950c84e4e4\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: That is probably the most interesting thing I can say about this bill. No, I mean, not to diminish the importance of these bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI was recently speaking to someone who asked me what we did in Parliament, and I made the comment that actually, a lot of the legislation that goes through is via consensus, and that\u2019s because there are many things that we do in Parliament that are about making sure that the wheels turn in New Zealand and that things keep working. This is an example of that: three bills that look to make pragmatic changes to ensure efficiency of things that are already happening in New Zealand and will have a big impact, I think, especially in relation to the three occupational areas that I mentioned, especially the conveyancing section, and real estate agents as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI just wanted to add that the select committee will be going through these bills in detail. They are big bills. They cover lots of different areas. They cover many different Acts. They cover different regulations. It is really difficult in first reading to say that we will definitely agree with all of these changes moving forward. I think one of the beauties of our system here\u00A0is that we do have the opportunity to scrutinise these bills at select committee. I am not on the Justice Committee, but I have huge confidence in the ability of my colleagues and other members of that committee to really go through the details of all of these bills that they will have time to scrutinise and to really ensure that the purpose of these bills, which is general cross-party consensus on efficiency in relation to regulatory systems is achieved by this. Anything that goes further than that, that is more of a policy change, would be of concern to us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI have to mention before I finish that it was concerning to me to read\u2014in what is meant to be a very technical bill that goes through without any really huge political moves\u2014some comments that were made by the Minister and, in some of the introductory statements of these bills, that talked about the Government\u2019s view of removing red tape and making sure that the regulatory burden is eased. That is not how we would describe regulation. We all want good regulation, we all want regulation that works, and so I don\u2019t think this is a time for politics\u2014just to leave you with that thought.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00220b64d580a31b482a89a0e70415bcddf3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b64d580a31b482a89a0e70415bcddf3\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of\u00A0the Green Party to speak on this particular suite of bills. In this particular case, we\u2019re looking at the Regulatory Systems (Courts) Amendment Bill, the Regulatory Systems (Tribunals) Amendment Bill, and the Regulatory Systems (Occupational Regulation) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EFirst of all, I want to echo the previous speakers: when we\u2019re looking at a regulatory systems bill, this is not a new concept that only this Government has introduced; this is, in fact, something that has always sort of happened on a regular basis in order to make the improvements in effectiveness and efficiency of a regulatory system, in general. They are supposed to be more about the technical changes in the statute amendment bills, and also the continuous improvements, repair, and maintenance of our regulatory system. This is not something that is just happening now; it has always happened. I think that is something that is really, really important to mention here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ETo start with, I think, in terms of the previous two speakers, they have covered the Regulatory Systems (Courts) Amendment Bill quite substantially. That\u2019s not one that I will be speaking on substantially. I want to draw the House\u2019s attention to the Regulatory Systems (Tribunals) Amendment Bill, and this is specifically around one of the amendments that it\u2019s making to the Private Security Personnel and Private Investigators Act 2010. This is particularly around a new offence that has been introduced regarding non-compliance with a requirement to provide information to chief investigators in the Complaints, Investigation and Prosecution Unit and the potential fine that is attached to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI think that, while the Greens are always sceptical in terms of any sorts of increase in fines, because we believe in a restorative justice system and not a punitive justice system, it is understandable in this case why certain requirements were introduced in terms of a measure of accountability and regulations when we are looking at this, because when this bill was introduced, someone has recently passed away, sadly, as a result of being choked by a bouncer. I think, overall, the compliance and quality assurance around the Private Security Personnel and Private Investigators Act is something that is worth mentioning and is important to note.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI now draw attention to the last one, the Regulatory Systems (Occupational Regulation) Amendment Bill. I think this is the one that is particularly deserving of some attention. I think,\u00A0in this case, what we have seen is a concern for the Greens, that part of what this bill has\u00A0introduced removes the sanctions for not completing a compulsory professional development course. This is to do with the powers granted by section 15 of the Real Estate Agents Act 2008.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EAs was mentioned by the previous speaker, something like a regulatory systems bill\u2014the idea that we have this restrictive scope is the intent to ensure cross-party support and is meant to be improving efficiency and effectiveness of the regulatory system; it is not meant to be a politically charged mandate through these systems. However, we believe that this removal of the sanctions for not completing a compulsory professional development course is politically motived as a result of certain real estate agents refusing to take mandated and compulsory courses around Te Tiriti o Waitangi and who are subject to section 15 and also the sanction and the deregistration under section 54 of the Real Estate Agents Act 2008. It is not effectiveness and it is not improving efficiency of the regulatory system; it is a political positioning, so it is disappointing. The Greens are disappointed at the fact that the Minister is using a regulatory systems bill to try and score political points on something that is currently happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EAlthough the Greens would be in support of the Regulatory Systems (Courts) Amendment Bill and the Regulatory Systems (Tribunals) Amendment Bill, we cannot support the Regulatory Systems (Occupational Regulation) Amendment Bill. Considering it\u2019s considered as a package of bills, we will not be supporting this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00226e02761f53a646b7ba4001a757b39fc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e02761f53a646b7ba4001a757b39fc0\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This debate is interrupted and is set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 18 February.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202502139226f210dab74e88802f73203cef51af000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 5.55 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"