"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4f280fcef42d8a38f5eb5e4fb85bb\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 12 MARCH 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ea98a89d048648848ca8382ba7045930\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 12 MARCH 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b4e6e29b32e04f8c862c2265826b5d6a\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224c7ee3bc0f5e410482e0f8084e9f0539\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022756cb07e55ba40708ec95db242097d5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022756cb07e55ba40708ec95db242097d5f\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Assistant Speaker):\u003C/span\u003E Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227de54740e170492a842830f86c4642ab\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022df25464e54424a1eab9fccf5ec0f5f79\u0022\u003EWh\u0101nau Ora\u2014Government Changes\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002203031e406c6c47f395b780738a3495e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203031e406c6c47f395b780738a3495e8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I\u2019ve received a letter from Debbie Ngarewa-Packer seeking to debate under Standing Order 399 the Government\u2019s changes to Wh\u0101nau Ora. Every statement in a letter seeking an urgent debate must be authenticated. This application had no authenticating material. Speakers Arthur, Hunt, Wilson, Smith, and Mallard have all ruled that applications for urgent debates that are not accompanied by authenticating material will be declined on that ground\u2014Speakers\u2019 ruling 214/5, which I concur with and uphold. The application is declined. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226b037388764045ee87de8ee54fa5d6fb\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226307ca22092d40ed95a6f09e86300343\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002279b659c9a3054f8c8d37e2a6a21cff80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279b659c9a3054f8c8d37e2a6a21cff80\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No papers have been presented. Two petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002230ecb7dd571d4b0992fa05365c6929df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230ecb7dd571d4b0992fa05365c6929df\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EPetition of Issie Mullen-Winiata requesting that the House make it mandatory for employers to contribute to KiwiSaver for all workers under 18\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Kathleen Walsh requesting that the House urge the Government to urgently review the decision to downgrade maternity services at the Whakat\u0101ne Hospital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00225b86ffaee5c1428aa39e56ea0318face\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b86ffaee5c1428aa39e56ea0318face\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those two petitions stand referred to the Petitions Committee. No papers have been delivered for presentation. A select committee report has been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002220b4c3c8d197425f87cff00cfe324c66\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220b4c3c8d197425f87cff00cfe324c66\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Report of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee on the 202324 annual reviews of the New Zealand Customs Service and the Border Executive Board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022c70276b305664ad9b5afadf2e8cbcda8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c70276b305664ad9b5afadf2e8cbcda8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No bills have been introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002290b551a34a3e4788acbdafeb9fa72846\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002225ad8af2364545d097de80efeefef8a1\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022219f4e7d668b40529c770bf55d54e935\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Rail\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022 data-id=\u00229c986c2fafe34c7da448e83fd6aa7ed0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c986c2fafe34c7da448e83fd6aa7ed0\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Rail: Does he stand by his statements and actions regarding the Cook Strait ferries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022fec9f5fe930f41099582f07a2359bf4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fec9f5fe930f41099582f07a2359bf4c\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister for Rail):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and by my statement that a project in 2020 with $400.1\u00A0million in Government funding and the balance coming from KiwiRail and the ports somehow blew out by billions by 2023 and the Treasury warning the last Government it was on track to go above $4\u00A0billion. We are hard at work on a cost-effective solution. It\u2019s possible to bring new ships to New Zealand and take a pragmatic approach to infrastructure, so watch this space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea8a9adcbdad4988895d2446916470d9\u0022\u003EJamie Arbuckle\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has the Government had in its engagement with commercial shipyards?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffeb257167674c3991484fc2320ac108\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: We are in a worldwide search for a good commercial deal. Good business people seek multiple quotes towards a competitive price, and also treat prospective partners with the utmost respect. That\u2019s why we met with Hyundai and it\u2019s why we directly approached many shipyards around the world. We intend to narrow our list very shortly to a selection of capable shipbuilders, and the final cost will be a massive saving to the New Zealand people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7e2ac1b6bec4c028e1782f0b0c349c4\u0022\u003EJamie Arbuckle\u003C/span\u003E: How is the work on the infrastructure element of this programme tracking?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ec3d4a72a75456ca9a50d207266ebc8\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: As former Labour Minister Maharey would say, more good news. Extremely well; we have been to see CentrePort, we\u2019re in contact with Port Marlborough and we\u2019ll visit them directly soon, and are regularly working with KiwiRail and our new company Ferry Holdings Ltd. It was curious to see reports in the media yesterday suggesting that ports were reluctant to work with KiwiRail. In our experience, both ports and KiwiRail have worked constructively, collaboratively, and collegially to focus on cost-effective infrastructure. In a few weeks\u2019 time, this House will see just how productive work can be when the Government is disciplined in its objectives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0f4b8ce7f422e8d4325c2bf67d46a\u0022\u003EJamie Arbuckle\u003C/span\u003E: Who has the Government appointed to the Ferry Holdings Ltd board?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b02f11d035f94cf6a3468d7cd0b87138\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Again, more good news. Chris Mackenzie, with a deep operational knowledge of rail and ferries; Heather Simpson\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227b7a791371e4c549ebbaa09d907547a\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: One of your good mates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da41e3fd397b4ec5875bc162db05861f\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, not Willie Jackson. No, no, no. Don\u2019t be alarmed. It\u2019s Heather Simpson, with strong competence in economics and the workings of Government; Greg Lowe, a qualified marine engineer and former global head of Beca; Katherine Rich, an industry body chief executive with a firm understanding of the freight supply chain and customer needs; and Captain Iain MacLeod, an experienced mariner and shipmaster who has driven ships on the Cook Strait and across the Pacific.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226aafa0f2bd1d4411919ca87c8c069540\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022414bc89e767c4df9ad480514f1db5bfc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022414bc89e767c4df9ad480514f1db5bfc\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u002281078cbcb97741ee9b95c666ee0c3b7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281078cbcb97741ee9b95c666ee0c3b7e\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6785f9019b54d02974808395d71f733\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the Rt Hon Winston Peters, \u201CWe don\u2019t want a globalised sell-out of New Zealand, which is what many of the neo-liberals have recommended\u201D, or is his disagreement with Winston Peters the reason the Minister of Foreign Affairs has been barred from speaking at his international investor summit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e28f62ce486545a892fde0c7006c5a81\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014the Minister of Foreign Affairs is going to be here tomorrow, ensuring that the Government maintains control of this House. Then, in the evening, he will be on a plane to the United States to ensure that the best representation possible in our country\u2019s interests\u2014hopefully in a bipartisan way\u2014is put to the American people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255b7b963e14c46d08feba9330dea453f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister be indicating to international investors tomorrow that his Government is open to the privatisation of school and hospital buildings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1469e249e3b4d278b40f7d51e385840\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The reality is that the Prime Minister is giving a speech today setting out what the coverage and span of the two days\u2014the 13th and 14th\u2014will be. That should be asked of the Prime Minister because that\u2019s covered in his speech\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf263eb7c4fc4a42a25e7938aaa4bdee\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I just did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c8dc7f96c104eaebadd997e033a85a0\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, can I just say, yes, but the timing is later today. And unlike an undisciplined party, we stick to form, we stick in our lane, and we make sure that things are done chronologically and sequentially.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022439ffb2cdddf4413a89343167a5fabd4\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: When the Prime Minister said on Monday that there\u2019s $6\u00A0billion of hospital building work in the pipeline he\u2019d be presenting to international investors tomorrow, was he indicating that the Government is open to private investors owning those hospital buildings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d0b3b6355c34066b76071261ee288f5\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister was indicating that he inherited a wrecked economy where the main mantra was borrow and hope, and that if we\u2019re to turn this around, we need international investment and we need it now. Our job is to provide the international investors with the answers as to why New Zealand is the right place to invest. That\u2019s why we hope to have agreement across political parties on the essentialities now brought upon us by an infrugal, wasteful, spendthrift Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022299c259ad895428cb4b1f35bf0a463bf\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does health Minister Simeon Brown\u2019s statement that he wants as much elective surgery as possible to be done in private hospitals reflect Government policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8e763e81fc74a94a02547c1a54d64d8\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The wisdom of Simeon Brown is that he understands one thing: the patient\u2019s everything\u2014the patient\u2019s everything. How they get the operation is not helped by blind, stupid ideology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c2dc1e622524cb5917e6eccdb5b7d05\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with David Seymour, \u201CIf you partially privatise corporations and allow private shareholders to own part of them, the company is much more accountable\u201D; if so, how does he explain the mixed-ownership - model power companies decreasing their investment in new generation, increasing power prices, and withdrawing record profits following that partial privatisation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022426f6e73c25f4955941972d6733b03a2\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: If one has a grasp on this country\u2019s political history, going all the way back to Dick Seddon, that was always understood to be the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f737c87e05547fd9174d59990fe3bd5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Government considering relaxing the foreign home-buyer ban as part of its bid to attract more wealthy foreign investors; if so, what happened to putting New Zealanders first?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224610287075ac493f97b1de967e2225b0\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: But that\u2019s not what the Government\u2019s doing. So why is he speculating on something that his party was prepared to do? His party, for example, is the only one that in 2002 signed a deal with Singapore and sold that right down the drain. And I had to go across there and try and change it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db6821d98b534c45b88cf2ac870ebf77\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister and his Government had a \u201Cgood look\u201D at my Unlawful Occupation of Palestine Sanctions Bill, as he promised me that he would do in response to my questions in this House on 11 December last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db0fa83cffe04d1ea2bcdb8cee36abbd\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I believe the Prime Minister\u2019s kept his word on that matter. And we\u2019re also waiting for a good look at that member\u2019s response to the 7 October violent terrorist attack that saw so many thousands of people killed or abducted at the same time. I\u2019m still waiting to see that member\u2019s response to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a4bfaf350a14533a788f2dcdd44fa0f\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister stand by Aotearoa\u2019s vote at the United Nations General Assembly in September 2024, which called on all States to implement sanctions in response to Israel\u2019s unlawful presence in the occupied Palestinian territory, and, if so, what is he doing about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f13f094eba14464a4e164842a6a7366\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No such vote at the United Nations in that country\u2019s name has ever been given. That\u2019s what we\u2019re doing about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022682809fd6cf347e4a883202f1c13680a\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. You made a ruling in this House that \u201CAotearoa\u201D and \u201CNew Zealand\u201D could be used interchangeably, so I would expect an answer to that question from the acting Prime Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220041b31c591a444ea50f599a45bb2103\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, with all due respect\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad0d713b4bce465281088718a3fd24c8\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: If we go to the record of the United Nations, no such country was recorded as casting a vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d9b018427b543b9b33471b03fe2346c\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister join the Greens, Labour, and Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori in supporting my member\u2019s bill to implement sanctions and trade measures against Israel for their continued, ceaseless, and violent occupation of Gaza and the West Bank, just like we did against Russia for its unlawful occupation of Ukraine?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022657b3046da924d9fb6c0f9fb8da7c323\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: This side of the House has always believed in a two-State solution and is awaiting that member\u2019s petition regarding the terrorist atrocity that happened in October so many years ago and until this time has only been responded to by members on this side of the House and some members of the Opposition but not by the Green Party or that member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e606e1de16d44315975f29845d72e92f\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister commit to retaining our nuclear-free status under this Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7ab16e529474f5eb978b3d75a4741f7\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve got no idea where that question is coming from, because nowhere and anywhere in this House has a comment been made about that. [Interruption] Beg your pardon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff9f926fd8944bec85338b63dfb50643\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a question. It\u2019s about your trip to the States.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ceb054f9df734d57858f1293671ce3a7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, the primary question is statements and actions. If the acting Prime Minister is saying there has been no statement, there is no action, then the question doesn\u2019t stand. You can ask another question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263a37fb2326b4ef0a12af7b16f3742cb\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, can I have a point of order? There is a certain rudimentary training required for members of Parliament that they understand the Standing Orders and know what the parameters are. We\u2019ve seen somebody being ruled out today, bringing a request for an urgent debate\u2014no evidence to back it up. All the fundamentals that are laid out in the Speakers\u2019 rulings are not even observed. That was a classic question there: no evidence to bring the question up and she just expects to get an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022905377aa3ebb49418c3d7d42c10529af\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I just ruled that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b165ba8a3d442a4aae3553cfdd00a1c\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: A further supplementary, Mr Speaker, as you offered me another: is the Government committed to our status as a nuclear-free Aotearoa New Zealand and a nuclear-free Pacific, and does he support Pacific efforts to revitalise the Treaty of Rarotonga to close the loopholes left for the United States to pilot nuclear submarines through the Pacific?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb9caeebd10f4910b8e253af33bf9f90\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: So here is the problem with that question as well. There has to be an action or a statement by the Government to bring it back to the primary question. I did give the member another chance, but we\u2019ll move on to Laura McClure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222dfcaf9b717c4a75819c3b1e58bef318\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Agriculture\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022 data-id=\u0022772414fb5df7406aa3b91790b8680a5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022772414fb5df7406aa3b91790b8680a5b\u0022\u003ELAURA McCLURE (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Agriculture: What recent announcements has he made about positive health outcomes for pets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022 data-id=\u00225346cb0921d6456092b7d9042b05efd8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225346cb0921d6456092b7d9042b05efd8\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD (Associate Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday, I announced a regulatory change to allow non-veterinarians to carry out certain dental procedures on cats and dogs when authorised by a vet. As a farmer, I know how busy vets are around the country and that we have talented vet nurses who are capable of doing subgingival procedures like teeth scaling. This change will give them the legal protection to do that. Animals\u2019 dental health is a really good marker for overall health and so expanding the number of people that can provide this service will lead to really positive outcomes for pets. And we actually give a toss about pets over here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebc64c637e994d939288d012d42b1d6c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There are two members having a conversation that would be better carried out out of the House, and I will facilitate that for them if it continues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e23c356c3cb240c682c9e13b209b1a34\u0022\u003ELaura McClure\u003C/span\u003E: Why was this change necessary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c8469331ad34cc297e4d9de8000cc0f\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, these changes were necessary because of an amendment to the Animal Welfare Act made by the previous Government that was nothing short of a \u201Ccat-tastrophe\u201D. It meant that surgical procedures can only be provided by a vet. Vet nurses were routinely conducting subgingival dental procedures prior to the law change. These regulations will restore that right and mean that pets who have potentially serious health concerns don\u2019t have to wait for a vet and can be seen more quickly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4befc4b203547058843a65e48eb3e0c\u0022\u003ELaura McClure\u003C/span\u003E: How will this be \u201Cpaws-itive\u201D for pet owners? [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac586898973c44f1a8656ebbb170488e\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, end of the puns, I promise. The hope is that over time we will see a reduction in cost for this sort of procedure. It will still be done by trained, capable, professional, clinical staff, but not necessarily by a registered vet. But most of all, it\u2019ll go some way to freeing up vets\u2019 time so that they can be more available to pet owners who need them for more complex procedures. The overall ability of vets to provide services to their clients will therefore improve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cd21da60ae84cca9d40a5aba872bda6\u0022\u003ELaura McClure\u003C/span\u003E: How will this change support vets and vet nurses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231f5f05bddb743b6bd6ec0b2cea7696c\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: This will be welcome news to vets and vet nurses. I would like to acknowledge the work of the New Zealand Veterinary Association and the New Zealand Veterinary Nurses Association who have been advocating for their sector in this area since 2021. In addition to freeing up vets\u2019 time, I\u2019m sure that vet nurses will be relishing the opportunity to use their skills to care for even more animals when this regulation comes into force on 10 April this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bed5879f2055497d8d37502b352dee3f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Energy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022b37ebdbd78674a8088cd0b67973e0b3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b37ebdbd78674a8088cd0b67973e0b3b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Energy: Is he concerned that two international offshore wind investors have now withdrawn or paused their New Zealand projects, citing current Government policy as their reason; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0b1d41b9aae4c33ab8afd89df127ab8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0b1d41b9aae4c33ab8afd89df127ab8\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister for Energy):\u003C/span\u003E No, I am confident in the work this Government is doing to enable offshore wind. When we came into office, there was no regime or legislation to enable offshore wind, but thanks to this Government, we will soon have both.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c98b67964a824815b638933c2a416217\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that international investors are telling his Government that their investment is at risk because of his Government\u2019s policies that could cost New Zealand, by PricewaterhouseCoopers\u2019 estimations, between 5,000 and 30,000 highly skilled, well-paid jobs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd031816776e445b80ec285e21d75c6b\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m not. We\u2019ve actually got over 100 of those investors currently in the country telling us and telling this Government that they want to invest in this country, and we are a Government that\u2019s going to ensure that the red and green tape that is currently in place is out of the way so that they can invest in our country and make Kiwis\u2019 lives better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d10eb2b7f86c4dee816aab594dea31c9\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Has he, the Prime Minister, or any other Minister met with Sumitomo Corporation following their letter on 11 October to the Prime Minister and other Ministers seeking reconsideration of Government policies, and, if not, why has the Government not worked to ensure international investment in New Zealand has not been paused because of their policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f3abfef13854cc199175da26f362f54\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve been the Minister for Energy for just under four weeks, and I haven\u2019t had a request from that organisation to meet. But I do meet regularly with a large number of investors who are looking at opportunities to build renewable generation in this country. That is one of the single-biggest things that this country can do in order to improve livelihoods and our economy. More renewable generation will aid energy security and affordability, and grow our economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db82d1d0395b400abc3331827ef53e4e\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Minister as to whether his job has been exacerbated by the closure of Marsden Point, and who was responsible for doing that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dbc639769464b6e883fec3319ea98d8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s probably just a little bit wide of the wicket.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f49558c8c064b50b37af439f40d20da\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dec216159c524c5d9acb9e8460dcc9e0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s got to relate to the primary\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b6cfb2f5cd9430cb66f555a7dd48d17\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268b905b480db40d29219abbf845308bc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a minute\u2014when I\u2019m ready. I can\u2019t knock out a question because it doesn\u2019t relate to the primary, only to allow a question that also is very, very far wide of the wicket from the primary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cf3cfe18ffe41f0b3e12603e083fc71\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the Prime Minister, who, in question time yesterday, said, \u201CWe know we need the investment, because it\u2019s actually capital to grow our businesses, which actually creates higher-income jobs and more jobs for people.\u201D, and has he had a conversation with the Prime Minister to say, actually, in the case of offshore wind, it\u2019s his Government\u2019s policy settings that are driving away international investment that would lead to well-paid jobs in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022136a5d8f79d14f319bdf8bbf65b8b649\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I obviously always agree with our Prime Minister, but what I also agree with is the fact that this country needs more abundant and affordable energy, and this is a Government who is taking the steps to put in place the legislative regime to make that a reality. I will reinforce: we had no legislative framework in place when we came into Government, but we will do by the end of this year, and that is good for New Zealand and it\u2019s good for the New Zealand economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e0d2ef073fb4a80a1e279829784f536\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Infrastructure New Zealand, who has pointed out the delays from this Government and the work that the previous Government had under way to establish a regulatory regime for offshore wind?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e23b971c6d1485db6e9265e260718dc\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: I only go back to what I noted in my primary response, which is: when we came in, that regulatory regime was not in place. You cannot build offshore wind in this country today, because the regulations are not in place. This Government is taking the action to make sure it is in place, and this Government will deliver upon that promise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022272d9c5f533e4452a96a9298ef97bd67\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u0022f655bfec443e47afa6438af1e4ca3e2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f655bfec443e47afa6438af1e4ca3e2a\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What recent announcements has he made on increasing penalties for illicit drug\u00A0use?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022decf45a3efc34f82b9f10ca1bdeb8206\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022decf45a3efc34f82b9f10ca1bdeb8206\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday, I announced that Cabinet has agreed to progress with stronger drug classifications to crack down on harmful substances and protect New Zealanders from the devastating impact of illicit drugs. Proposed changes include classifying three fentanyl analogues as class A drugs as part of stronger controls on 23 harmful substances, which will lead to tougher penalties for offenders. Peddlers of illicit drugs cause significant harm in our communities and inflict misery on our streets. Our Government is committed to keeping Kiwis safe from dangerous substances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfaa3feb1e01482cafa26fa5d4c06d28\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government proposing to increase controls on 23 illicit drugs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022811d85d484924d00b75dd8c3bc5824f5\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Government is responding to the Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs, which recommended to limit the risk of harmful and potential misuse of drugs to include these classifications. This will enable police and Customs to take preventative action and allow harsher penalties for those caught making or possessing these drugs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296eb096f13cc485191ba9bb231321550\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: What substances besides fentanyl analogues are being more tightly controlled?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2fec56e015f49d6bcc1c3863bf1669f\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Our Government is proposing to impose stricter controls on a number of illicit substances. This includes synthetic cathinones, often marketed as bath salts; synthetic cannabinoids; and amphetamine precursors, used in the manufacture of meth. We know how important it is to reduce the impact of drug harm. Ensuring there are stronger controls in place for these harmful substances is a step towards our goal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022241aa8acfaf54bfb90aa123fd3939916\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: When will these new drug laws come into effect?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3eb98dc1d64426b841cca948d193299\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, good news. The process to strengthen drug controls is\u00A0already under way. The planned changes have been approved by Cabinet and will now be drafted as an Order in Council, tabled in Parliament, and considered by the Health Committee before again being referred back to Cabinet. If agreed, these changes will come into force by mid-year, ensuring stronger protections against harmful substances as soon as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227a30237df65148d095035a8da41d30e2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u00227a8af230e3f9485ba36d4c81ac154475\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a8af230e3f9485ba36d4c81ac154475\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does she stand by all her statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u002252dc25fa027f47fb921867e40eb99a9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002252dc25fa027f47fb921867e40eb99a9b\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I absolutely stand by actions to build a world-leading education system that delivers equitable and excellent outcomes for every child\u2014in particular, this Government\u2019s introduction of phonics checks in English and te reo M\u0101ori. So far this year, more than 800 teachers have already completed their training module, and feedback I\u2019ve received from teachers has been extraordinarily positive. One wrote that \u201CThe phonics check is an easy-to-administer assessment that provides teachers with valuable information about a child\u2019s phonics knowledge and their ability to blend sounds and read words. It enables teachers to target their instructions to meet their children\u2019s needs.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287a03ea975ec446aabb469b0d8d711d4\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Government receive official advice that its changes to the school lunch programme weren\u2019t going to work, and, if so, why did she agree to them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6365916e5cb4e1d994ca17c1df03708\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: While I am kept up to date on the broad direction of this area, this area of school lunches, as you know, is delegated to Minister Seymour, and detailed questions should be directed to Mr Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022659d6611d0e9455dac0629d46f6e14b6\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Did she put in place a contingency plan in case something went wrong, such as a provider going into liquidation, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c120a97836e04651979cb7b7bbc735a8\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I will respond to that question by reiterating the previous answer: while I\u2019m kept up to date on the broad direction of this area, those questions need to be directed to Minister Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231c320c28eac4ea68570b0d6b06170a3\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: When did she first find out about issues with Libelle, and when did she tell Minister Seymour, if at all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9be6b0014c64946914b8c9b58daaf4e\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to that question, Minister Seymour informed me of some high-level supply challenges relating to Libelle on 11 February.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294f86dc9c3c44baa970644ba0a60168c\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that yesterday, when one subcontractor, Libelle, went into liquidation, the on-time, in-full delivery for the school lunch programme was 99.96\u00A0percent, and if that\u2019s not a contingency plan to deal with a subcontractor\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223571a29e722e4adbac928027c92d6411\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234e59cb5414649208d41143644644aea\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014going into liquidation, I\u2019m not sure what is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253305241c2954555a3bb7fec5bbd2014\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The answer to that question is yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227377194530364f40ac0f59c1eda61780\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Why didn\u2019t she, as Minister of Education, act when she found out that hundreds of thousands of school lunches were at risk due to Libelle\u2019s issues?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271190020cfdc40d386c5bca6a0d28945\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I only found out about these issues recently. This is a delegation for Minister Seymour, and I know that these are very challenging and complex issues that he is working through, and I\u2019ve offered him my full support in anything that he might need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f4951a6f7d3649c3b660a76ed04a68e4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Immigration\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b94ee0e572d244f7a601c5cc9fbadbaf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b94ee0e572d244f7a601c5cc9fbadbaf\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Immigration: What recent changes have been made to the Accredited Employer Work Visa to support businesses to access the skills and experience they need?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7b037bfca8b4ed08101edc734c83d23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7b037bfca8b4ed08101edc734c83d23\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E This week, we\u2019ve implemented a number of changes to the Accredited Employer Work Visa to help support businesses access the skills and experience they need to help us grow the economy. These changes include removing the median wage threshold, reducing the minimum experience required for\u00A0level 4 and 5 roles to two years, and increasing the visa duration for new applicants in level 4 to 5 roles from two to three years. This Government has listened to businesses and stakeholders from around the country, and these changes will support businesses to grow the economy so that all New Zealanders can thrive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b516d55bbdf24c53bfec7bf089da92fd\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary. [Pauses]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab2d9121c5774472a95e2190e2dc24d4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7aea085fdf14b348463436aba8ce944\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Why were these changes made?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226b09515eedb45e188694f4284e449b0\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: These changes were made because the success of New Zealand\u2019s businesses is critical to growing our economy. Removing the median wage was a Government coalition agreement as it has distorted the labour market and meant that in some instances New Zealanders were being paid less than their migrant colleagues doing the same job. As Minister, it was also clear to me that some of the settings around relevant work experience and visa lengths could be improved. Our focus remains on attracting higher-skilled workers while managing migration responsibly to help Kiwi businesses expand and help grow the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcf88e6e968549d284657097f6fac3be\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary. [Pauses]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd230d33975a49e2942dc52f8487a22e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. Just\u2014hang on. You\u2019re not going to have your name called. You\u2019ve called it once. Don\u2019t do that. Just get on with your question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283ebecdd04e143218e0891329d7f12d4\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: What was the impact of these changes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226df20d7ef9bb4d548fe8fe1f11e3125f\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: These changes will support the right balance of ensuring Kiwis are prioritised for job opportunities while providing a more fit for purpose visa so New\u00A0Zealanders can have access to the skills they need to grow the economy. Richard McIntyre from Federated Farmers said, \u201CThese changes are a significant step forward and will be welcome news for many farming families across New Zealand\u201D. And it, \u201C\u2026 will cut thousands of dollars in costs for farmers, but will also mean a lot less stress and uncertainty for both the farmer and the employee who just want to get on with \u2026 farming.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022457f6bfd550d47a7bcbe99170de82e37\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has the Minister seen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5ef937ea1c94e1d9a628ff8f568cbba\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen lots of positive feedback. BusinessNZ chief executive Katherine Rich said, \u201CThe changes are a positive start to what will need to be a continuing programme of refinement to immigration settings to ensure that businesses can get the skills they need to support economic recovery and growth.\u201D And, \u201CIt is positive to see [this] Government signalling greater responsiveness to business needs\u2026\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b9839c3f78cf4d5fb373741f1fa154be\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Science, Innovation and Technology\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8a11422eda64e5a8051da8b2c656f90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8a11422eda64e5a8051da8b2c656f90\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Science, Innovation and Technology: Does he agree with the Science System Advisory Group\u2019s finding, \u201CNote the critical importance of the science and innovation workforce, and that actions will be needed at multiple levels to develop and retain a high calibre workforce of researchers, scientists, innovators and entrepreneurs\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00222be1c03bf31a46d7a904e5a50f060a17\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222be1c03bf31a46d7a904e5a50f060a17\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Science, Innovation and Technology: On behalf of the Minister, yes. That\u2019s why we are reforming the science system so that scientists can have world-class careers right here in New Zealand. Our scientists are not just employed in Crown research institutes; we are focused on creating career pathways from universities, into the broader science, innovation, and technology industry. For example, the Government has recently announced a $20\u00A0million investment over five years for an applied PhD programme to equip students with the practical skills that they need to apply their knowledge to real-world problems within ambitious businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251e762fee02e4435975d105543e2660a\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that the 40 people in the applied technology teams at Callaghan Innovation\u2014the very people we should be hiring more of\u2014will still be made redundant?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b77db42e96c476985fc7b8ded5a1f30\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: What I can confirm is that the priority for the Government, in terms of the science system, is the commercialisation so that we can create economic growth. Economic growth, of course, means more jobs and higher incomes for New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e097922b68704532af9f91cb866f4f2d\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: What consideration has the Minister given to the flow-on effects to businesses, including start-up businesses, which rely on Callaghan Innovation support and expertise, now that they may not be able to continue operating? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231803099608d4fe7b198f49d44c58c5e\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of the Minister, what we do know, unfortunately, is some of the roles that were undertaken by Callaghan Innovation that were fee-for-service were actually underutilised and highly subsidised by the Government, so clearly weren\u2019t delivering value for business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec3b730eae33475eb5e74a099e86489a\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: What advice does he have for the scientists and support staff at Callaghan Innovation who have had their employment terminated and are now actively applying for jobs in the Netherlands and Australia?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247d001634350460e971c419f9fee9b6f\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, anyone who is in the position where their job has changed is, of course\u2014it\u2019s challenging for them as individuals. What we have to do as a Government, though, is make sure that across every Government agency, we are getting the outcomes that taxpayers are expecting. The refocusing of the science system, as I said before, was around commercialisation so that it directly leads to business and economic growth, so that we have more jobs available and we have higher wages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a37d1b64b1f489ab6c4375dfba1057e\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: How does he expect to generate \u201Cworld-class careers in science\u201D when 570 jobs have gone from the science sector since this Government took office, there are no clear career pathways for scientists at Callaghan, and our best and our brightest are now applying for jobs outside of New Zealand? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c07230446744355aa7e9c204c4703bb\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, I would refute the statements that that member has made. If you think about the reshaping of the science system and the ability for scientists to gain intellectual property, they financially will benefit directly. That actually provides greater opportunities, greater career opportunities, and financial opportunities for them here in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f7ca48b700c94547986ba6e90ed55fc9\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u00228b95256937cf480b8089c4512ed53038\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b95256937cf480b8089c4512ed53038\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: E tautoko ana ia i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero me ng\u0101 mahi katoa a t\u014Dna K\u0101wanatanga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E[Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00223ee4caf082f24304b54ed521716d69fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ee4caf082f24304b54ed521716d69fc\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: \u0100e.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd3ba9c844bf48348a1745a2ed3f5821\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister care about productivity or just growth, and, if so, how exactly does relying on offshore money from big corporates attending his privatisation festival address New Zealand\u2019s productivity crisis, which is created by entrenched social inequality?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225ecfb52ccfb46f5a8071a90fe160216\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: To the manifestation of a number of questions, first two questions, both the answers\u2014tahi, rua\u2014are \u0101e and \u0101e.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d79f6c3bfc734de7a2bf5d47cd31af33\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister agree with his statement that \u201CWe have a fair tax system\u201D, and, if so, why has the OECD consistently said that New Zealand\u2019s productivity and equity is hampered by \u201Cshares, land, and residential property being tax favoured\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022342b5dfbe1864612aafd798cdf240acb\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister agrees with the statement, otherwise he wouldn\u2019t have said it. On the second thing: the OECD\u2019s had a lot of suggestions for this country, but if you look at it, the former Government went through this experience and decided in the opposite and, in fact, in the bonfire of inanities, the present leader of the Labour Party got rid of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022755c830fc49d4c979513b0b2513de803\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that people who earn their money from work pay a higher effective tax rate than those who make money off wealth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4a0726baf5f4692a0e09ab53144ce72\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Being the only parties in this House that give a hoot about the working man and woman in this country: yes, we most certainly do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f670c82ea93b42778257671806e1f43e\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that wealthy New Zealanders pay 9.5\u00A0percent tax on their economic income while New Zealanders who earn a salary of $80,000 pay around 29\u00A0percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210a722597b0248e28ba603bf169ef980\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: If one is going to do the analysis from the book Das Kapital, you\u2019ll arrive at that sort of calculation, but nobody else has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d999e3bc63704834957165da25aad52a\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Should cleaners, caterers, and security guards working on projects procured by the Government be guaranteed a living wage; if so, why did he remove paying these workers a living wage in the new Government procurement rules?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aac7c05379447239cdb23836f5663f0\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: As someone who has ensured in the last 50 years to raise the minimum wage more than any other political influence in this country, the answer to that is we\u2019re working on it, but at the present time the wage rises are actually in excess of the inflation rises and the worker is still in front.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022687f1c3b4738419987a59369ae82f6be\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Trade and Investment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4ead5027c6244c28fe614a0da3813b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4ead5027c6244c28fe614a0da3813b8\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of State for Trade and Investment: What actions has the Government taken to support trade with South-east Asia?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf80ba7215eb4717bd2d6fc8d4441d66\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf80ba7215eb4717bd2d6fc8d4441d66\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG (Minister of State for Trade and Investment):\u003C/span\u003E Vietnam is a valued member of the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership\u2014or RCEP, as it\u2019s commonly known\u2014and a partner for New Zealand, and this year we are celebrating 50 years of diplomatic relations. South-east Asia, of course, is home to 9\u00A0percent of the world\u2019s population and is critical to maintaining and building New Zealand\u2019s prosperity. Our Government has prioritised re-energising the relationship with Vietnam, and, recently, I joined the Prime Minister in a business delegation on a trade mission there to elevate our relationship. During that trip, the PM announced a major upgrade of the relationship to a comprehensive strategic partnership\u2014the highest level available with Vietnam\u2014making New Zealand just the 10th country in the world to achieve that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221233914abbfe436b9d04edee8991bb36\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: Why is this comprehensive strategic partnership with Vietnam significant?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b052ae780e6e4faf88b894d64ed1d17b\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: Vietnam is our 14th-largest trading partner and the fastest-growing economy in ASEAN, therefore providing huge opportunities to us here in New Zealand. Over the last five years, two-way trade with Vietnam has grown a substantial 40\u00A0percent, and this new partnership, of course, has potential to increase it further. In New Zealand, there are great opportunities to build on partnerships with high-value sectors like premium food and beverages, agritech, technology, innovation, and renewable energy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235cbf2aa564948b3beb04ade080bbf1e\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: What was achieved on this trade mission?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270972fa4d4b244888998604f9f9c5f5a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: Heaps. During the trade mission to Vietnam, New Zealand Trade and Enterprise has estimated that over $130\u00A0million of potential export value over the next three years was secured across 16 export deals and commercial partnerships. It\u2019s also been announced that the airline VietJet will be developing a new commercial route here to strengthen connectivity and build better people-to-people links. And, of course, finally, we have increased the number of Government scholarships available to Vietnamese students by 56\u00A0percent, further growing our education links with Vietnam.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f396c0e85d9403daac47c3ae2e3b834\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: How does our partnership with Vietnam benefit New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f85a00afc5242dda0039828cb2ba269\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: Like trade partnerships with any other nation, strengthening our relationship with Vietnam is incredibly important to New Zealand\u2019s economic future, with more opportunities for businesses here. As Vietnam gets wealthier, Vietnamese people want to buy high-quality products from around the world, and we, of course, have some of the best food and beverage producers and innovative businesses around. The more we trade with the world, the more we grow our economy, which translates to more jobs, higher incomes, and more money in the back pockets of everyday New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002239b6d47c6c92407689be0eb97fc291f2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3fe993fd90c4e068283b6b986544dd6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3fe993fd90c4e068283b6b986544dd6\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Is he committed to the same health outcomes for M\u0101ori as his immediate predecessor?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4a8c0f294274ec2b9b19e51c6c67352\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4a8c0f294274ec2b9b19e51c6c67352\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E My focus, as was the focus of my predecessor, is on ensuring that all New Zealanders, including M\u0101ori, have access to timely, quality healthcare. We know that too many New Zealanders are waiting too long to be seen at emergency departments, receive first specialist assessments, and have elective surgeries. Unlike the previous Government, our approach is putting patients first and backing our health system to get health back on track. This starts with bringing back our critical health targets, which the previous Government removed, to drive better outcomes for all New Zealanders, including M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208a4974535654a63981dda62286ed774\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the Hon Dr Shane Reti when he said, \u201CI want to see iwi M\u0101ori partnership boards powered up to support the health outcomes for your wh\u0101nau and your communities.\u201D; if so, what does powering up iwi M\u0101ori partnership boards mean?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022298d294bbe2f48e6be03cec55cec6c1a\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, my predecessor was very clear, about independent M\u0101ori partnership boards, that they should be providing consistent advice around health needs for M\u0101ori across the country and that these partnership boards should not be commissioning agencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284bc298e10064f3bb9b2350d3dd5c096\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen the overwhelming evidence that M\u0101ori die seven years earlier, that M\u0101ori are twice as likely to die from cardiovascular disease, and that M\u0101ori are more likely to get type 2 diabetes, and, if so, why do none of his health targets specifically address any of these issues?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b92acb69d224ee7b2009677ed537d71\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the five health targets that this Government put back in place, which the last Government removed, are for all New Zealanders. Every New Zealander expects to be able to turn up to an emergency department and be able to be seen in a timely manner. All New Zealanders expect that if they require elective surgery, they\u2019re able to receive that in a timely manner. This Government is focused on timely, quality access for all New Zealanders, which includes M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275f4be5d5cd64abbb83c1eb8e675e496\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224db4f51663a7419bbdd299e7b381e9ea\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just wait for a moment. OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242d1f7cb0a5e44edac38d0eb73cf8b89\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Does healthcare for all New Zealanders mean raising the life expectancy for M\u0101ori or lowering the life expectancy for non-M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b885ad5999a4a2a995347774a56821c\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Government\u2019s focus is on improving health outcomes for all New Zealanders, for M\u0101ori and for non-M\u0101ori, and I\u2019d just make this point to the other side: they removed health targets, and every single one went backwards for non-M\u0101ori and for M\u0101ori. All New Zealanders were worse off because of what they did when they decided to rearrange the health system in the middle of a pandemic. Shame on them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221dce28e69e6a4046b3cc28d592fa8565\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Those are actually relatively straightforward questions from Peeni Henare on a relatively\u2014actually, a very serious topic about the fact that M\u0101ori have lower life expectancy than non-M\u0101ori. You\u2019ll note that there\u2019s not any political insult in the question; it\u2019s asking for Government policy on that. Instead, we\u2019ve just had a diatribe from the Minister about health targets and the actions of the previous Government. It\u2019s not unreasonable to ask that he address what are straight and serious questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022180050f50c3a41ca9faa358a0aaac6ea\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question you suggest is serious asked if the Government\u2019s policy was to raise the life expectancy of M\u0101ori or lower the life expectancy of non-M\u0101ori. I think that, inside that, there was then enormous scope for answer. It wasn\u2019t a totally straight-up question at all, in my opinion. However, the Minister may like to address the question that was asked. If you wanted to shorten it, I\u2019ll give you the chance to shorten it, so we don\u2019t get the flick at the end.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205e384f2db7d431a8ad7162542887cbf\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Does healthcare for all New Zealanders, for this Government, mean making the life expectancy for M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori the same?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4b5a7775769492bb78c71e47914e3f5\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6f69f277b424e6b9cc8c5774a48f0c8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister give any\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e0732499191431b9701cf4f9c890272\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Up or down? Which one\u2019s going to move?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a303a895bf414c709fd3022ab3a8e030\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a minute. Sorry, start again. Please go ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c67436cf59d4143802af6d3db02a598\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No, she\u2019ll be interested in this question. Does the Minister give any credence to the fact that, internationally, diet is the most important thing towards longevity, as proven by populations like Japan, and we could do far more in terms of changing the M\u0101ori health outcomes by getting serious dietary change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf3145e5c5cd4afc9590a95bcf7dca7d\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as members of this House know, there is a range of factors which impact on health outcomes, and it\u2019s critically important we\u2019re focused on them, but what I would say is we are focused on improving health outcomes for all New\u00A0Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e5ae192d8d894b8387e4f595fe4f88ca\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Wh\u0101nau Ora\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1b64bcebd424d7589caf59c85992659\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1b64bcebd424d7589caf59c85992659\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Wh\u0101nau Ora: How many audits and reviews has Wh\u0101nau Ora failed since its establishment in 2010, if any?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022123faa773ff34dbc8dec90dab8339eef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022123faa773ff34dbc8dec90dab8339eef\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Wh\u0101nau Ora: Wh\u0101nau Ora commissioning arrangements, like other Government-funded initiatives, have been subject to a number of audits and reviews since their establishment in 2014. Audits and reviews do not issue passes or fails. They are conducted periodically to determine if settings are fit for purpose, delivering outcomes for New Zealand, and highlight where changes may be needed to improve these.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c15617dc12614c959888348adfc70526\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Minister allowed the overhaul of Wh\u0101nau Ora, given that there is unclarity on how many audits Wh\u0101nau Ora has passed, 19 audits in 10 years, two including an Auditor-General audit and a ministerial review?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5ea18ddf1f049ef90cb04f426b2847f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to ask you to do that question again. There is far too much chatter on the Government side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226676c74cfd70451297b8b2f5ce5ed88b\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Sure. Why has the Minister allowed the overhaul of Wh\u0101nau Ora, given the Minister doesn\u2019t know Wh\u0101nau Ora has passed 19 audits in 10 years, two including an Auditor-General review and a ministerial review?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d4e7df0d0e84a328ecbe79f220f264b\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, this is the first time in 10 years that Te Puni K\u014Dkiri have gone to market for the supply of Wh\u0101nau Ora commissioning services. This is not an overhaul; this is a re-letting of the contracts for the commissioning agencies. It should be noted that the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) recommends that all Government contracts should be reviewed and re-let every four to five years. This is a normal business process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283cfa4abddf5402885de59a246778cef\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Mr Speaker, I seek your guidance. We\u2019ve got a member asking pointed questions about a process in which one of the major losers appears to be a prominent member of her own political party. I just wonder if there\u2019s any need to declare such a conflict of interest before asking such questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255441eb6afe1429e819dd9c91d5d3b4b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if it wasn\u2019t declared and understood, the member wouldn\u2019t have taken the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4ff6332a8414d6e9c6f0fc4ab4ca03b\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce1ced643e00452890d64b603a1068a4\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Do you want to talk about party presidents, David?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bdb0f44433b4884821e6e15f1d458d1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a moment. That doesn\u2019t help order in the House. So we\u2019ll now go into total silence. [Interruption] Someone\u2019s going to go, Willie. We\u2019ll go to total silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c582cf6df3e4faa8ec1c753265f441a\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Hey, he should have name suppression\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022140979642637426593b1b2430ba23fbc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t make it hard. Total silence for Debbie Ngarewa-Packer\u2019s questioning to continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d49dc7c2541c419f95a984f5b2d90ad3\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora. Why has the Minister decided to completely cut and replace the current provider, the commissioning agency, given that Wh\u0101nau Ora has supported over 4\u00A0million wh\u0101nau since its establishment, has delivered over a\u00A0million COVID-19 vaccines during the peak of the pandemic, and has provided evidence that it can get into homes that no one else can?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d87ef9e3d184747aef16a9048d7ddb0\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, let me be very clear to the House: our Government has supported and is very keen to see Wh\u0101nau Ora progress and actually go wider and deliver more outcomes for M\u0101ori than it has. It is a very normal process to go to market with the services to see if the providers who are currently providing the service are the best ones available in the market. It\u2019s a very normal process that Te Puni K\u014Dkiri have undertaken. And as I said at the start, this is about ensuring that we deliver even greater Wh\u0101nau Ora services to M\u0101ori who need it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f26344ea37854b7aa6588679547dd121\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Does a provider that has banked over $100\u00A0million in profit not suggest that the taxpayers\u2019 money has not gone for the purpose in which it was given in the first place\u2014right?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a53b8f2b2154e6199c5bcef1a14be0c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think that\u2019s something the Minister should speculate on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225711e4fe57c74b70b7ba5f345eae706a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Mr Speaker, I\u2019m not speculating on that at all. That is public knowledge. I just want to know whether the Minister thinks that the money given over to that provider has got to where it was given in the first place and spent for the purpose it was given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b97846ff1b0b4e84b580ec48d161f7d2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dec96020403646538b5dc47c687a1b66\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s public knowledge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220992d3dc4e604d9e9fd8134ee7b1fa07\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, and that is certainly a lot clearer than the implication that was in the question, which, as you know, under 371 is not allowed. But given that clarification, the Minister may make a comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220edef7926eff42f99edb995914530ec2\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, this is a process that Te Puni K\u014Dkiri have run, as recommended by MBIE, that every contract that the Government has should go to market every four to five years to test the market to see if there are other providers available. They have criteria. They apply that criteria. They select those that are best positioned to deliver the service for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3ab365c71ed465da0a8f9342733c64b\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: What does Minister Potaka have to say to the 1,800 kaimahi who will lose their jobs as a result of his decision?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233e18d2786484468a3566b3d818ae7b1\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, firstly, let me say, it is a decision that is based on criteria by Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, and, in terms of any changes that will result from the new providers, it is too early to tell. Those contracts are being negotiated as we speak. What I do know, having had experience with the Wh\u0101nau Ora commissioning agencies, is their deep commitment to serving wh\u0101nau in need, and I do know that in terms of the transition, I have every confidence that they will do their best to ensure continuity of service for those who need it the most.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022826bec51bca3431a85f65fdca2f5476c\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Minister ensure that the 540,000 wh\u0101nau who currently access Wh\u0101nau Ora services will not be negatively impacted by the sudden change in commissioning agencies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e3d8a2588b5400cb54f203986ad8c4e\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, I do want to say that this is a process that\u2019s been under way for many, many months, as is what normally happens when the Government puts a contract out for tender. And I want to say again: it is absolutely important that the transition is managed well. That is why, at the Minister for Wh\u0101nau Ora\u2019s request, the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet and the Public Service Commission are working closely with Te Puni K\u014Dkiri to manage the transition and to ensure a smooth continuity of service for the wh\u0101nau receiving services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283df6df2de62499d8934be34647b45fd\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the Auditor-General\u2019s statement from February 2003 that \u201Cthe public service needs clear expectations for progressing wh\u0101nau-centred approaches where appropriate. [In addition] Te Puni K\u014Dkiri needs a clearer and stronger mandate for broadening wh\u0101nau-centred approaches.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242e5f9a974b045eea1b97cf3e74184f9\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, yes, and that is why the key shifts\u00A0in commissioning the next round of Wh\u0101nau Ora commissioning agencies are based on a greater service reach, strength in the evidence base, a data-driven investment planning, improved front-line workforce development and retention, and strengthened risk management processes. I would say that\u2019s an improvement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e9a9f59a4af400daeb4461034107394\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister agrees with this statement, how can he justify cutting $500,000 from Wh\u0101nau Ora through last year\u2019s Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef11897e4d544255b7530c13591f1373\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, every Minister across this Government is focused on the taxpayers who get up and go to work every day and pay tax. We have a responsibility to them to ensure that the tax they pay is spent effectively, and in every area\u2014including Wh\u0101nau Ora\u2014we want to make sure that the services reach those who have the highest needs and the money gets to them as closely as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226083b974f09247d6ae3fe4be3aca6959\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Given that Wh\u0101nau Ora is a proven success and that the Auditor-General has recommended that its wh\u0101nau-centred approach should be expanded, why did the Minister decide to gut and replace the current commissioning agencies instead of increasing Wh\u0101nau Ora funding to incorporate new commissioning agencies alongside the already established ones?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227676ac8bc9584472b11d23cbf539dc9b\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Because it was political and personal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234d3ea3e207e4453ab39e76350b8e754\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, there is nothing in this process that Te Puni K\u014Dkiri have undertaken that shows that we do not support Wh\u0101nau Ora\u2014quite the opposite. I have laid out what the shifts are. We are very clear about the fact that Wh\u0101nau Ora is an amazing model for delivering to wh\u0101nau with the most complex and challenging lives, and it is very, very successful. That\u2019s why we are continuing. That is why we are ensuring, in terms of this process for commissioning agencies\u2014we want even better results and even greater outcomes for the wh\u0101nau it serves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201738b7924e84e0b92de60c285423ae2\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. As usual, I hesitate to raise this, but we\u2019ve had continual barracking from the Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori co-leader that the Minister\u2019s decision was quite personal and political. That\u2019s a direct reflection and an accusation that the Minister has acted improperly. I would have thought that\u2019s the sort of comment that should be withdrawn for bringing down the reputation of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b9d9a09095e40f8ae23e11da0ebba23\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I was listening, and what I could say is that it\u2019s not unusual that there are questions raised at various times about the actions of Ministers. If we\u2019re going to get down to a point where we are so sanitised that we can\u2019t have interjections of any type\u2014given that that is at the lower end of what might be said in this House, and, frankly, has been said by a number of people in this House\u2014then I think we\u2019d be in some sort of\u00A0difficulty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022043ca6714609469b81fcdce4712acf44\u0022\u003EDebate on Budget Policy Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a4bfc7d800de4c7a98279384006a5c40\u0022\u003EDebate on Budget Policy Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u00222d3a559352b64919aea0dfaddaae71d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d3a559352b64919aea0dfaddaae71d2\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of the report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the Budget Policy Statement 2025 and the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update 2024.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EThe Budget Policy Statement released in December set out four priorities for Budget 2025. They are: (1) lifting economic growth through measures to address New Zealand\u2019s long-term productivity challenges; (2) implementing a social investment approach to drive better results from the Government\u2019s investment in social services and thereby improve life outcomes for people with high needs; (3) keeping tight control of Government spending, while funding a limited number of high-priority Government policy commitments and cost pressures that cannot be met by reprioritisation; and (4) developing a sustainable pipeline of long-term infrastructure investments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EAs the Minister of Finance, the Hon Nicola Willis, said at the time, on 17 December, progress has already been made in all of these areas, and, as this Government has demonstrated with great and unprecedented urgency since January, our work across all fronts continues. As has been well-established, the Government has refocused the education system on the core skills of reading, writing, and mathematics; fast-track legislation has been introduced to speed the consenting of major projects; bureaucratic red tape is being reduced; a new agency has been established to drive social investment; Government spending has been brought back under control; and an infrastructure pipeline is being developed. More on all of this will be said in the lead-up to Budget 2025. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EDecember\u2019s economic and fiscal data highlighted both the scale of the challenge and the extent of the opportunity that New Zealand faces. The Finance and Expenditure Committee has now reported back on the Budget Policy Statement 2025 and the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update 2024. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EAs part of our scrutiny, we heard from 12 public submitters in February and we had a hearing with the Minister of Finance and Treasury officials on 29 January. At that hearing, the Minister of Finance announced that Budget day will be Thursday, 22 February\u2014of May. Otherwise, it\u2019s already been\u2014I feel like I\u2019m reading it. Budget day will be Thursday, 22 May\u2014for the benefit of the Hansard\u20142025. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EShe told the committee that in addition to the traditional decisions on spending and savings, Budget 2025 will also contain \u201Cseveral legislative and regulatory measures to encourage economic growth\u201D. She described economic growth as \u201Cthe single biggest thing that we can do to improve New Zealanders\u2019 financial position, but also the state of the Government\u2019s books\u201D. The Minister made clear that it is unsustainable for the Government to grow the economy by borrowing money, noting the consequences of inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EThe finance Minister described how economic growth is necessary for job creation, wage increases, and the sustainable funding of public services, and noted the importance of these outcomes to low-income New Zealanders. Making clear that productivity will support longer-term growth, the Minister of Finance identified five areas this Government is focused on to improve productivity: (1) education and skills; (2) regulation, including as it relates to competition; (3) overseas investment and trade; (4) science, technology, and innovation; and (5) infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EThis latest policy Budget Policy Statement, or BPS, proves one thing: the Minister of Finance and the coalition Government has a plan to take New Zealand\u2019s economy forward. Inflation is back within the target band at 2.2\u00A0percent, compared to 7\u00A0percent in December 2022 under the previous Government\u20142.2\u00A0percent inflation compared to over 7\u00A0percent under the last Government. In short, our Government\u2019s economic discipline is making life more affordable for New Zealanders. In turn, lower inflation translates into lower interest rates, relieving financial pressure on households and businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EWith the official cash rate now down to 3.75\u00A0percent, saving real money each week in mortgage payments for families across New Zealand is a reality. In fact, recently, Infometrics estimated that by the end of this year, New Zealand households will have another $45\u00A0million to spend every week due to lower mortgage interest costs. To give one example, a family with a $500,000 mortgage on a 25year term could expect to be about $180 a fortnight better off than it was a few months ago if its rate dropped from 7\u00A0percent to 5.75\u00A0percent. As we can see now, most fixed mortgage rates in New Zealand now have the magic \u201C5\u201D at the start of it\u2014not at 7\u00A0percent, as we have seen a year or two or three ago. That is good news for Kiwi families, who in recent years have suffered both a cost of living crisis and the high interest rates required to bring that cost of living crisis under control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EAt the same time, farmer confidence is at an all-time high\u2014the highest since 2016, according to a recent Federated Farmers survey\u2014with the farm-gate milk price for our 12,000 dairy farmers topping $10 this season. As well as growth, growth, growth\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb25e676c0554974a6c8bbb807d5d53b\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Growth, growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b267cf65ab6f45dc9dece96c895cb47d\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014this coalition Government is focused on trade, trade, trade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246a5d50734ad4e5783f59d3f8e8dbbb2\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Trade, trade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022489384c3fe0b49cf819f16d655d57c2f\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: So we\u2019ve got growth, growth, growth\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb32f8e9ac6043e2af75d703309f2bc7\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Growth, growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299664b45d804413f9d69af6495d78e2f\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and trade, trade, trade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201e8b71663164f20bbf21f8459476194\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Trade, trade, trade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e5f3d721c384bc5b6fb2be87a624e9a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s enough of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d716893724d4446a4770c5ad10b58e5\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: Prime Minister Christopher Luxon will travel to India next week, accompanied by a very large delegation. Strengthening our relationship with India is the key priority for this Government, unlike the last one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EThis week\u2014tomorrow in fact, and the next day\u2014is New Zealand\u2019s Infrastructure Investment Summit. The Prime Minister and key Ministers will showcase New Zealand\u2019s infrastructure pipeline, with some exciting growth sectors, to companies\u2014get this number\u2014managing about $6 trillion in capital. There will be companies in that room collectively managing $6\u00A0million trillion, or $6 trillion in capital\u2014not $6\u00A0million trillion, but $6 trillion. How much is $6\u00A0million trillion? Well, let\u2019s not work that out, but this is $6 trillion in capital. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EThe Budget Policy Statement reflects the determination and directional intent of this Government. It is a road map\u2014it is a road map\u2014for growth and stability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003ELet me just take members through one more time the five priorities of this Budget Policy Statement as we head to Budget day on 22 May 2025. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022988b9c7199f847bdae28987b75a4ebda\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s May. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022baa00f96241c42728c70e32a5ca84124\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s 22 May\u2014have we got that record straight? We are: (1)\u00A0lifting economic growth through measures to address New Zealand\u2019s long-term productivity challenges, (2) implementing a social investment approach to drive results from\u00A0the Government\u2019s investment in social services, (3) keeping tight control of the Government\u2019s spending, and (4) developing a sustainable pipeline of long-term infrastructure investments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EThis is a Budget Policy Statement that directly addresses Kiwis\u2019 top priorities: fixing the economy, restoring law and order, and delivering better health and education. I commend this statement to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022edfdd89f62084751b3205132e0b777e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022edfdd89f62084751b3205132e0b777e6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t want to interrupt the member\u2019s speech, but let me just say that the sort of general supporting commentary from around his colleagues is not going to be tolerated too much more. This is a Parliament; not a revivalist tent, so let\u2019s just have the speaker\u2014alone\u2014speaking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00228f009efbf3444facbcb00b59a6629cc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f009efbf3444facbcb00b59a6629cc0\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is a pleasure to take a call on this special debate on the Budget Policy Statement. I do promise no revivalism in my speech, because this actually\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaff9faed1ee458e84326832b287e083\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The roof might fall in if you did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f6e274f840846a9860c9c42fdcbed5e\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Speaker, it will be far more mainstream, to which you and I are both accustomed. This is a serious debate and one this Parliament should take seriously, because the Budget Policy Statement and its examination at the Finance and Expenditure Committee is an important part of the parliamentary process. It is where the Government of the day sets out what the priorities for spending for the coming year will be\u2014sets the economic context for the Budget that it\u2019s going to deliver. Yes, it announces the date, but within a Budget Policy Statement there is a lot of detail, and it actually does reflect the priorities of the Government of the day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI think, if we have a look at the Budget Policy Statement that was delivered and examined at the Finance and Expenditure Committee, rather than seeing a narrative of growth, growth, growth as the opposition will tell us, it is nothing more than a pretty grim read in cuts, cuts, cuts. One of the important things that a Budget Policy Statement sets out is the operating allowance. This is how much money a Government is going to have to allocate at the forthcoming Budget\u2014what that looks like\u2014and we can see, in the Government\u2019s own Budget Policy Statement, on page\u00A03 of that document, that there\u2019s going to be a high bar for new initiatives. I think, when we say a high bar, we say an insurmountable bar. While there\u2019s an operating allowance in the forthcoming Budget of $2.4\u00A0billion, after you take out the pre-commitments that have already been made\u2014that is things that the Government didn\u2019t fund in the last Budget and realised that they needed to do some political fix-ups on in between Budgets\u2014we\u2019re left with an operating allowance of $700\u00A0million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI cannot emphasise to New Zealanders how low that is. That is for everything other than health. That is to fund the cost pressures that we see in education. That is to fund what we might want to see in new initiatives in health. That is to fund any increase we might like to have in the paltry allocation we\u2019ve had to housing in the previous Budget. There are not going to be new initiatives. There is the highest of bars that has been set by the Government in this. Second, not only is there not going to be new initiatives, what this Budget Policy Statement lays absolutely bare is that there are going to be more cuts and they are going to be deeper. I read from the document where it says, \u201CSecond, savings will need to be found, beyond those already identified in the previous Budget.\u201D What I say to New Zealanders is: brace yourself; there is more coming. You thought Budget 2024 was savage. Hot on its heels is coming Budget 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhat it makes absolutely clear, in case colleagues thinking of making their bids didn\u2019t realise just how brutal this Budget was going to be, is it says, \u201Cwith a small number of exceptions, government departments should expect to receive no additional funding in the Budget.\u201D What we can see is that this is austerity laid bare. This is no new funding going in, but, worse than that, it is more cuts. If we are looking for what we need to do to fix our health system, to deal with the rising levels of homelessness that we are seeing throughout New Zealand, by once again investing in housing, you will not see it in Budget 2025. The Budget Policy Statement makes that abundantly clear. If we are looking for what we need to do to stimulate and drive growth\u2014the kinds of initiatives that we might want to see in economic development\u2014there will not be funding for that. That is not the kind of thing we\u2019ll see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe know\u2014we just need to look at the economic indicators\u2014just how tough it is out there. We can take our pick of figures to look at that. Net core Crown debt will peak at 46.5\u00A0percent of GDP. Last time it was this high was in 1994. And, when we come to think about the increased borrowing, let\u2019s take our thinking back to Budget 2024 and just how irresponsible it was of a Government to borrow to fund tax cuts. That is becoming abundantly clear. We\u2019ll see that net core Crown debt is 3.5\u00A0percentage points higher than it was forecast in the Budget. Between May and December, we\u2019ve seen that increase, in terms of what net core Crown debt has done, so when this Government tries to blame it all on the previous Governments, it\u2019s time for them to stand up and take responsibility for the Budgets that they have delivered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe also see\u2014and I think this is one of the most concerning things for us on this side of the House\u2014what this translates to for ordinary people. Nowhere is that more debilitating than the rising number of unemployed that we are seeing in this country. That is higher in every year of the forecast, and that is what the Budget Policy Statement shows us. There are 20,000 more people forecast to be on the jobseeker benefit and support by 2026, and that is a direct response of the kinds of cuts that we saw in Budget \u201924 and that we are being told to brace ourselves for in Budget 2025. Those cuts will be deeper. We are not going to see the level of spending that we need to start addressing some of these issues that New Zealand is facing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe other, I guess, notable thing about the Budget Policy Statement, and an item that the select committee spent a substantial amount of time delving into, of course, was \u201COBEGALx\u201D, the new economic measure that was introduced by the Minister of Finance. One of the reasons that we spent time talking to both the Minister of Finance and Treasury officials about it, of course, is because Treasury had advised against the introduction of this new measure, and they had advised against the introduction of this new measure because it would not allow for the continuity and ongoing comparison of the Crown account. \u201CWhen you can\u2019t make surplus, you just take some stuff out to make it better\u201D would be the short and easy description of what OBEGALx is, and there is a reason why Treasury advised against doing this. For Treasury, the ability for us to do year-on-year comparisons and to look at the economic situation across years is an important part of how we prudently manage fiscal arrangements in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe heard from Treasury that their advice to the Minister was that changing those short-term indicators soon after setting them could weaken the Government\u2019s fiscal strategy credibility, especially at the time when the fiscal outlook had deteriorated. They were particularly concerned that it was a change to those fiscal indicators in the face of a deterioration in terms of what they were projecting. Now, we know globally at the moment that modelling and projections are challenging, and we have seen that over the last five years. I think that what we have seen over the last five years is that we have seen economists and central banks struggling to understand the different factors at play. Even more alarmingly, what we also heard in the course of this hearing was just how uncertain a place the world is at the moment and how hard it is to factor in all of the moving parts that we\u2019re seeing moving around the world. To change our fiscal indicators, and being told by Treasury that it could weaken a Government\u2019s fiscal credibility, I think is a bold move for a Minister of Finance and for a Government to agree to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhat New Zealanders need to see in this Budget Policy Statement is an indication that we are going to have a Budget in 2025 that will start supporting New Zealanders into work, that it will make jobs and incomes a priority, that it will make housing an absolute priority, giving people the security of the homes they need in the kinds of communities they need, and that we also make sure we are adequately funding our health system. What we needed was a Budget Policy Statement that prioritised homes, health, and communities as well as all the things New Zealanders need. But we did not see that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022d289c1cfa8fd45ad8be154782f78c455\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d289c1cfa8fd45ad8be154782f78c455\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. Look, I know that we are in the realm of post-truth politics, but I don\u2019t think that I have seen a clearer indication of the gap between rhetoric and reality than what we have contained within the Budget Policy Statement\u2014the rhetoric and the promises that this Government came in on with regards to the cost of living, and the reality that is biting everyday New Zealanders as a result of the decisions that this Government had made to knowingly in its Going For Growth strategy grow inequality, grow child poverty, grow climate changing emissions, and actually de-grow the wellbeing of New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWe have some pretty vague statements in the Budget Policy Statement, which were helpfully gone through by the chair. He stated\u2014and it\u2019s reflected in this Budget Policy Statement from the Minister of Finance\u2014that the Government\u2019s overarching goals for its term of office are to, and I quote, \u201Cbuild a stronger, more productive economy.\u201D But when you really start trying to get into the granular detail, there\u2019s just some vague gesturing towards the notion\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e246a1deff324b40ae9765a88c448464\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, it\u2019s coming. Hold on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb0c9eafb05745a0af09917626fa76dd\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014of education and skills, towards regulation, towards overseas investment\u2014which I will come back to later, for members heckling at the moment\u2014for science and technology, which the Government has decided to cut 400 jobs in, and also towards infrastructure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWe are understandably starting to see quite a bit of bait and switch whereby we were promised productivity but now the fixation and the rhetoric is on growth, and the question has to be \u201CGrowth for whom?\u201D Who will benefit from this fixation from the Government? What we have in the Budget Policy Statement, and indeed the Budget itself, is a Government that is intent on crunching Government spending from approximately 34\u00A0percent of GDP to 30\u00A0percent. The Government knows full well the private spending from households and businesses is not going to fill the gap. That is one of the deepest ironies from this Government that likes to call themselves good, sound, economic managers, because the decisions that the Government has made to crunch that Government spending as a proportion of GDP and not see it filled by private investment has resulted in a deeper and\u00A0longer recession, which again is hurting average New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EEvery forecast for this economy shows that things are getting worse as a result of the Government\u2019s decisions, that they have exacerbated this recession. The Reserve Bank initially indicated that we were facing just a light downturn. Now the growth numbers continue to get worse. This time last year, the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update was projecting a 1.5\u00A0percent growth for this year, but the actual rate now is negative 0.2\u00A0percent. Meanwhile, next year\u2019s growth of the Budget in May was projected to be 1.7\u00A0percent, but\u00A0it\u2019s now projected to be 0.5\u00A0percent. This Budget does not increase productivity\u2014in fact, it actively, demonstrably, evidentially does the opposite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWhat do we hear from the Government about what their plans currently are? Well, we\u2019ve currently got the Prime Minister embarrassingly simping to the international companies that he\u2019s got at his investor festival, asking them to fill the gap because the Government refuses to take responsibility for building the infrastructure that all of us ultimately rely on. That is because this Government refuses to acknowledge the reality\u2014which I might add many Governments before it have as well\u2014that you cannot build a productive economy on the sands of speculation. We in the Greens believe that Aotearoa New Zealand can aim a heck of a lot higher than simply hoping to have an economy which is us selling houses back and forwards to each other. This is an obvious monopoly system, and we do not live in a game of monopoly. We can indeed change the rules when they do not work for the majority of New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s talk about that attempt at fiscal consolidation which this Government is ploughing ahead with, whereby it is deciding to do so through a process of cuts, cuts, merciless cuts after cuts, instead of fixing the tax system\u2014that tax system, which we hear them fire up about whenever we dare to mention the reality that the institution of the Inland Revenue Department in 2023 produced a piece of work which told us that the top 311 households own more wealth than the bottom 2.5\u00A0million New Zealanders. To connect the dots there, that does not just happen. That is an active consequence of political decisions which have been made to see those top 311 households pay an effective tax rate less than half that of the average New Zealander, and these guys have the gall to say that they care about hard-working New Zealanders. They are further entrenching a system which sees our nurses, our firefighters, our teachers pay an effective tax rate almost double that of the wealthiest in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ENot only is that so deeply unfair and so deeply inequitable, but it robs us of the very productivity that they tell us that they care about. It robs us of the investment that we could be making in that infrastructure that all of us need. The fundamental problem with the economy and the tax system in Aotearoa New Zealand is that we overtax work and we under-tax\u2014indeed oftentimes do not tax at all\u2014wealth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ENow, the $14\u00A0billion in tax cuts which the Government ploughed ahead with were promised to boost the economy and to boost growth, but as we can see, the Government\u2019s decisions to hand out those tax cuts have in fact only exacerbated that recession and made things far worse. New Zealanders feel it in their back pocket. Those trickle-down tax cuts are not making up for the cuts to all of the public services that all of us rely on in the increases in fees for prescriptions, for bus fares, vehicle registration fees, and otherwise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re also seeing the most, I think, immediately obvious manifestation of this Government\u2019s fixation on privatisation with regards to the failure of their cuts to the per-child cost of the school lunch programme, whereby we are seeing the little guy\u2014those hard-working New Zealanders that they once said that they cared about\u2014being screwed over, and multinational companies or domestic versions of those multinational companies ultimately now going bust because this programme was always set up to fail. This austerity approach whereby we cut costs, set up programmes to fail, watch them fail, then blame them for failing\u2014New Zealanders, I believe, can see right through it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ENow, there is no wonder that every other day we\u2019ve got a new form of distraction politics from members of this Government with their latest imported culture woke wars or whatever it is. But I think that it is far more profound that every other day in this House we have the Prime Minister get up and say in response to questions\u2014particularly from the Greens\u2014that rents have stabilised. The facts are clear, and I would invite the members of the Government to go and look at Statistics New Zealand\u2014the authoritative, non-partisan agency responsible for producing the database that we make decisions upon as a country\u2014which tells us that rents have actually increased at double what Consumers Price Index inflation is. That is not what stabilisation means. Rents are double what we are seeing of average inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe fundamental point here from the Greens in this Budget Policy Statement is that different decisions can be made. While the Government has decided to fixate on, for example, mining, which is reflected in the Budget Policy Statement report from the Finance and Expenditure Committee, whereby the Minister of Finance started talking about how we can apparently do this thing carefully\u2014we have seen and we have heard from the Government that their plan for growth and mining is to go from approximately a worth of $1\u00A0billion to $2\u00A0billion. They want to increase the number of jobs from approximately 5,000 jobs to 7,000 jobs. This is worthwhile putting in context because right now the arts sector in this country\u2014not particularly well renowned for being well resourced or supported by successive Governments\u2014is currently worth $16\u00A0billion, i.e., 16 times the mining sector that they want to supercharge, and it currently employs 117,000 people. Far, far more than the 7,000 that they want to increase mining jobs to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EDifferent decisions can be made. The Greens have outlined our plan with He Ara Anamata whereby we have shown that we can reduce climate changing emissions five times faster than the Government\u2019s plan in their emissions reduction plan. More so than that, we can reduce the cost of living and improve people\u2019s quality of life. That fundamental decision looks like deciding to put the public good ahead of private gain. I know that that\u2019s a scary thing for members of the Government, the notion that we collectively might look after each other and the planet that we live on, but those are the decisions that we are campaigning on, and we know resonate with everyday New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EJust in my final remarks, I\u2019ve spent a lot of time trying to understand the logic and the rationale behind this Government\u2019s decisions, and, frankly, it\u2019s clear at the end of the day there is none. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6c7e8905430436e8baf594000a27b40\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6c7e8905430436e8baf594000a27b40\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise in this debate on the Budget Policy Statement 2025 and the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update for 2024. If people have just tuned in, we are actually not debating the Greens\u2019 alternative Budget plan, yet they could have been confused for thinking that after the last speaker spoke so much about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EI\u2019d just address, actually, a couple of things in Ms Swarbrick\u2019s remarks before I actually get on to the Budget Policy Statement. Again, she always talks about taxing unrealised gains and that\u2019s actually not what we should be doing in New Zealand, and it\u2019s not a wealth tax. It\u2019s actually a capital tax you would be introducing, and what you do when you tax capital is you actually stop\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022523ac3825fe64df9bc809b124a1bb506\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a Piketty tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228f5209fd7a64cf08b8d960c23c3dc91\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, you actually remove money that we can use to invest in businesses, upskill staff, train, etc. We do not want to be taxing capital and stopping investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EBut I digress\u2014oh, one further point, though, before I do, I do digress, because I know Ms Swarbrick is a fan of Stats New Zealand. She mentioned it in her speech. If she actually looked at the second page of the report that the Finance and Expenditure Committee\u2014which I am a member of\u2014has reported, she would see that Stats New Zealand did modestly upgrade GDP, real growth, and nominal growth. Now, it was only modestly, but it should be noted that it actually has been upgraded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EWe were lucky enough in the Finance and Expenditure Committee to have some submissions on the Budget Policy Statement, and so I want to thank the 49 people who did written submissions and, as Mr Brewer outlined earlier, the 12 people who actually came and spoke to the committee. I want to thank them for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EAs was outlined by the chair, Mr Brewer, earlier, there were really four key things in the Budget Policy Statement around lifting economic growth, social investment approach, tight control of Government spending, and a sustainable pipeline of infrastructure projects. ACT is very proudly able to point out how we\u2019re contributing to each of those as part of this tight coalition Government, using the different skills of our three parties to actually deliver for New Zealanders. In the economic growth through productivity, we have David Seymour, as the Minister for Regulation, dealing with bad regulations that hold back business, and we\u2019ve had a number of announcements around that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EWe are very interested in how we can use this social investment approach to actually make sure that the public services that Kiwis want and deserve are actually delivering results. Again, we\u2019re looking at some initiatives there in relation to Pharmac.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003ETight control of Government spending is, I think, a really, really important objective of the Budget Policy Statement. I do want to quote the Minister of Finance because she made some statements about that to the select committee. She said that the Government\u2019s fiscal sustainability programme involves a high bar for any new spending. Ministers have been asked to reprioritise funding within their portfolio if they want to pursue new spending initiatives. Now, why she made those comments is we have seen over the last number of years that Government spending has got out of control. There are no proper checks and balances on what is being spent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EWe want to make sure that we are getting value for money, so I know that the Minister of Finance, ably supported by her Associate Ministers, is looking at that and making sure that we are actually only delivering new initiatives and investing where we can see outcomes. That is very, very important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EThen the final one, which we\u2019ve mentioned, was the sustainable pipeline of infrastructure investments. Again, we\u2019ve already heard referenced in this debate the investment summit which will start tomorrow. I also want to call out to Minister Chris Bishop and his Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Simon Court, who have put in place frameworks to allow overseas and New Zealand investors to be the ones who can invest in the pipeline of infrastructure projects, which is one of the goals of the Budget Policy Statement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EI also do want to reflect on a couple of other things in the report that are actually in the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update, which we are also debating\u2014which is this sizable document. It\u2019s actually a very valuable and important document, and it\u2019s worth bringing to the House\u2019s attention some pieces of this because it is actually really interesting. If you, in fact, turn to page\u00A08, there\u2019s a really great graph showing the rise of inflation over a number of years, and you can actually see, when the previous Government was in place, the massive uptick in Government spending, and then the horrific, horrific increase in inflation which has really made all New Zealand households suffer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EWhat it does say in this official Treasury document is that with inflation slowing\u2014again, we would say that was delivered by this Government\u2014and spare capacity emerging in the economy, monetary policy has become less restrictive, the Reserve Bank has lowered the official cash rate 125 basis points since August, and what we\u2019re seeing is a reduction in interest rates. The document goes on to say, \u201CLower interest rates will stimulate demand in time as lower debt servicing costs for mortgage holders\u201D\u2014so that\u2019s everyday Kiwis out there who have a mortgage who are noticing their rates coming down, and we\u2019ll also see more household spending and business investment. That is good news, but, again, these graphs are quite stark about the issues that we have inherited.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EI also want to draw people\u2019s attention to a page at the back, where it outlines all the fiscal risks. Again, the Minister of Finance, on 21 December 2023, put out a statement saying that she was going to ensure there were no more fiscal cliffs in the Budget documents and, in fact, in the accounts. Again, and people will be familiar with this, we found 21 projects left from the previous Government where there were fiscal cliffs. Now you can see in this statement of fiscal risks it actually outlines any programmes that have got time-limited funding, etc., and so we want to make sure that it\u2019s very clear to New Zealanders and to everyone about what are the risks the Government is dealing with and if a programme has time-limited funding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EOne other important thing I would like to draw the House\u2019s attention to is Treasury\u2019s commentary about some of the kind of more global risks. They actually talk about the trade situation globally. We\u2019ve obviously seen different musings from the US Government. That\u2019s why it\u2019s really important\u2014like we heard today\u2014that our Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs is actually on the way to the US to make sure that we have good relations with the US and can ensure that our trade position remains, because New Zealand is a trading export nation and we do need to make sure that those relationships are strong. We\u2019ve also, obviously, heard about the other countries like India, where shortly a delegation\u2014and we\u2019re very lucky to have Dr Parmjeet Parmar from ACT joining the Prime Minister on that delegation. She is one of our only two Indian-born MPs. Again, that we can look to open up more export markets, because, as we heard earlier, lifting economic growth\u2014and doing that will be by actually selling more of our goods to the rest of the world\u2014is one of the key objectives of the Budget Policy Statement for 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EI am really looking forward to the Budget on 22 May 2025, Mr Brewer\u2014just so there\u2019s no confusion\u2014when we will actually be able to see the cumulation of the work of all of our hard-working Ministers across the Government as they look to take the objectives that were set out by the Minister of Finance and actually make those into tangible outcomes for New Zealanders. Really, everyone should mark their diaries\u201422 May\u2014because it will be great to see the culmination of all that work and of these important Budget processes like the Budget Policy Statement and the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update. Thank you to the House for listening to me, and I look forward to hearing the rest of the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022 data-id=\u00224e23b9db554c4be5a104918ae33c0b7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e23b9db554c4be5a104918ae33c0b7c\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First in this special debate on the Budget Policy Statement\u2014the BPS. The Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU), as we know, was also released alongside the BPS as well, at the same time. Like the last speaker, I\u2019m looking forward to 22 May. Kiwis across the country, as we all are, will be looking forward to Budget day, and it\u2019s the day, I think, all New Zealanders and Kiwis watch Parliament, and they love to see what\u2019s happening in the Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThis Government, however, has inherited a wrecked economy, and we heard today by the acting Prime Minister, a wrecked economy is what we are dealing with. We came into Government with inflation out of control, causing a cost of living crisis and skyrocketing interest rates. The economy was tanking and running out of steam, and when the Hon Shane Jones spoke of the Budget Policy Statement prior to Christmas, he also mentioned how Treasury itself says it has to go back and rework its own modelling to actually work out the situation we are in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EWe are in a dire state of economy. We are on a knife edge and we have to start doing things different\u2014what this Government has done. The New Zealand First party, also prior to the election, warned the people of New Zealand and other political parties of the path the previous Government was on, and as the Hon Winston Peters has laid out, we were right in this forecast. Those forecasts have come true\u2014that we are in a worse position than we thought we were in prior to the election. The economy needs confidence, and this speech today, if I emphasise anything, is about confidence. We need a stronger, more productive economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EIn this Budget Policy Statement, it sets out goals and objectives for the Government in the forthcoming Budget. It talks of the short-term fiscal intentions and it talks about getting debt downwards\u2014a downwards trend towards 40\u00A0percent of GDP. It also talks about long-term fiscal objectives, of actually reducing debt to in between 20 to 40\u00A0percent of GDP so we can actually budget or actually have wriggle room around economic shocks or environmental disasters or emergencies. It is important we put ourselves back into that\u00A0situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThe unfortunate thing is the Opposition does not agree with that. They actually want to ramp up debt. They come and they sit on that side of the House, and all they talk about is spend, spend, spend. They want to ramp things up, where this Government will get things under control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228191ec65cbef41caa8eb7f3d7d086759\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: Did you read your debt levels?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d492cda914614f8584d96389f6314917\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE\u003C/span\u003E: Your debt levels\u2014yes, I have read your debt levels. We have set a very high bar for any new spending, so we will get the public sector; we will get the Government books back under control. We have those three goals we have to build a stronger, more productive economy that lifts real incomes, increases opportunities for New Zealanders. We will deliver more efficient, effective, and responsive public services to all who need and\u00A0use them. We will restore law and order, and we have been continuing doing that in this House with legislation. We will improve health outcomes and educational achievements. We will get the books back in order and restore discipline to public spending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EYes, the Opposition have alluded to the operating allowance of $2.4\u00A0billion, and $700\u00A0million of that is left, remains to be allocated through the Budget, but that is being responsible. We aren\u2019t blowing out the Budget; we are being responsible with the money that we have got allocated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThe last Government\u2014in their mismanagement, we saw them spending like drunken sailors. They have left us a legacy of debt and bad decisions, and what did they finish? What did they achieve? Nothing. COVID money thrown out and parachuted to people overseas\u2014not even in New Zealand. They wasted money on infrastructure planning\u2014$50\u00A0million on a cycle bridge. Where\u2019s that bridge? Where\u2019s the cycleway? Not here. Four billion dollars, they got the ferries out to\u2014$4\u00A0billion, that was going to cost. No prudence in their decisions. It is all about choices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EIt also a relief to New Zealanders that inflation has come down. We\u2019re seeing inflation back into that 1 to 3\u00A0percent range. We\u2019ve no longer got inflation over 7\u00A0percent. That was killing our economy. There is now confidence within our business sectors and in our consumers. We are restoring public spending savings in Government, and this is something the Opposition can\u2019t do: reprioritise spending and actually spend your money in a better way instead of just having to have more and more money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EWe are removing the regulatory barriers, and we have a growth strategy in the BPS, on page\u00A08, and it\u2019s about export income. We can\u2019t just sell to ourselves; we\u2019ve actually got to grow our exports, and that\u2019s something New Zealand First has always been very much aware of. We must be much more financially sound by our exports growing, and New Zealand First has invested, over our time in Government, in the regions, through the Provincial Growth Fund, through the Regional Infrastructure Fund (RIF), and through primary industries. Farming, aquaculture, fisheries, horticulture, and mining\u2014they\u2019re all going off. They\u2019re all things that are bringing money and export money into this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThe one thing the Opposition doesn\u2019t understand is they would always kill the golden goose that lays the golden egg. They would always kill the exporters and put them down\u2014no confidence in our exporters, where this side of the House and our Government, we believe in our exporters. We believe in tourism, and we\u2019re putting money into tourism and bringing money back into our country. As the finance Minister said, growth of 0.25\u00A0percent of nominal GDP would increase $2\u00A0billion in the forecast period, so any increase in exports\u2014it\u2019s a good thing. It will give us more revenue, more tax money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EInfrastructure fast track\u2014149 projects in the pipeline. Resource Management Act (RMA) reform, looking at capital requirements and how we can make that easier\u2014blow away the cobwebs of the old RMA and actually allow 149 projects on the table to actually be consented and actually get some work done. All you guys will be there for the opening, but none of you will actually vote for it. Time and time again, we hear about renewable energy, we hear about aquaculture, we hear about housing, but all of you voted against those projects, but bet you\u2019re all there when the ribbons are cut.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThe economic outlook is better, inflation\u2019s down, interest rates are down, and people are going to have more money in their pockets. We are at a turning point. We are heading back to a path of economic surplus, where this Government is going to take us back to actually having money in the bank and money in our pockets. And why would we want to put more money in the back of the pockets? What can we do with it? Why? Economic surplus will mean more hospitals. It will mean more doctors. It will mean more nurses, and schools delivering basics like maths, reading, and writing, because that\u2019s where the real deficits are. It\u2019s also about infrastructure and having the money for infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EAmazingly enough, I could go on for 20 minutes. It\u2019s actually been quite pleasurable today, but I look forward and our colleagues look forward to 22 May, to the finance Minister, and getting the country back on track and taking back our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022 data-id=\u002239cc214e244e415784f4c2902a4dda6a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239cc214e244e415784f4c2902a4dda6a\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is an overwhelming feeling to hear all the speeches in this House and not once mention wellbeing. The last speaker talked about inheriting a wrecked economy. Well, I wonder how he feels when we\u2019ve inherited or been subjected to a stolen one. This debate isn\u2019t about numbers on spreadsheets; it\u2019s about real people, real wh\u0101nau, and real struggles. This is a Budget that doesn\u2019t care about New Zealanders. It doesn\u2019t want to invest in those struggling wh\u0101nau working hard, the sick, M\u0101ori or Pacific Islanders, because they only want to serve those who want to exploit our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EThere are no wellbeing indicators in this Budget. What we have is a Government that doesn\u2019t care about the social return on investment, because it only cares for profit or for shareholdings and for international exploitation. This Budget tells us nothing. It tells us nothing of the wellbeing of Aotearoa\u2014nothing at all. They could fund M\u0101ori healthcare so\u00A0wh\u0101nau don\u2019t wait months for care that others get in days. Or they could close mortality rates. But they don\u2019t. And you know what? They continue to talk about equality. Liberal democracy is about equality, because it\u2019s easier, but equity is what\u2019s missing in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re not talking about equity because equity costs, and this Budget talks nothing about equity and closing the gaps, closing the mortality rates, lowering M\u0101ori prison rates. M\u0101ori make up 50\u00A0percent of the prison population for males in prison. We\u2019re not looking at how\u00A0we close those gaps. That\u2019s what equity funding does. That\u2019s what this Budget should be talking about, but it doesn\u2019t, so they come up with these catchphrases: woke\u2014all of these woke things. Though, it\u2019s not woke. Follow the data, follow the science, and stop being so\u00A0stupid. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EThe politics of distraction\u2014we heard it in one of the speeches, the \u201CAmericanising\u201D of our country. We have got to stop allowing these types of Governments to run their agenda, and Americanising our country is not the answer to close inequity. You continue to use words that Trump uses: \u201Cwoke\u201D. Everything you disagree with is \u201Cwoke\u201D. Equity is \u201Cwoke\u201D. What you do is you cut funding\u2014you cut funding to those who are struggling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d009d0ce4aa415d9a3d255d377f1be4\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: What about productivity? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281f5a226ad3f43bdb0ea2caf51892e98\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not about productivity, because productivity will be achieved once we have closed the gaps between those who have and those who have not. And the Budget doesn\u2019t look at any of that. Actually, your last 16 months has absolutely blown equity out of the water. What you do is you use this race baiting - type politics to get your point across. It\u2019s got nothing to do with P\u0101keh\u0101 or M\u0101ori; it\u2019s got everything to do with the economy, but you use those types of tactics to distract us from the real issues, and that\u2019s what this Budget Policy Statement doesn\u2019t do for our people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll tell you what, we\u2019ll have a whole lot of trolls trolling us in the morning when they see this speech, because, in actual fact, what they don\u2019t recognise is they\u2019re part of the 98\u00A0percent that are getting ripped off as well, and that this Government is only tending to the 2\u00A0percent that control 50\u00A0percent of this country\u2019s wealth. Removing Te Tiriti o Waitangi from any legislation\u2014Treaty principles bill, regulatory standards bill; removing Te Tiriti from 28 pieces of legislation\u2014all of that is to allow Aotearoa to be exploited by corporate greed and international investors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EIf you think that\u2019s where our economy should be going and if that is development or if that is making a profit for this country, we don\u2019t want anything for it. Our country needs to wake up. Wake up in 2026; it\u2019s our chance to make a change, because these types of policy statements in the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update do not recognise those who are contributing to it. That is 98\u00A0percent of the country that are working their butts off to ensure that there is some type of economy here in Aotearoa. We must stand up for the 98\u00A0percent of this country whilst this Government continues to feed the 2\u00A0percent, who control 50\u00A0percent of this country\u2019s wealth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s what this Budget is doing. That\u2019s what this Government is doing. It must come to an end\u20142026, we will see a change. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022125898a1b25941a18502fbcef7a4b1e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022125898a1b25941a18502fbcef7a4b1e2\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Kia orana, Mr Speaker. This Budget Policy Statement is the same old tired talking points that I\u2019ve heard from National Governments for way too long. It harks right back to the 1990s\u2019 absolutely failed neo-liberal concept of what the economy is and how we make progress, and it\u2019s sad. I mean, I find it frustrating and sad because I\u2019m sure that there are members on the other side of the House who genuinely believe what they\u2019re saying; they just don\u2019t know better. Like, they\u2019ve confused excess profit with progress, the rich getting richer with success, and we\u2019ve known since the 1990s that doesn\u2019t work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIn the 1990s, inequality dramatically increased in Aotearoa New Zealand because of policies from a National Government in the early 1990s. As a result, New Zealand has been held back, and we didn\u2019t make the investments in infrastructure that were needed. We haven\u2019t invested into public housing. All of these things have contributed to the problems that we face today. And it happened again last time, when the John Key - National Government\u2014which was less extreme than this one, I\u2019ll be honest. It was less extreme; it was less ridiculous and Trump-like. But still, when we hit the global financial crisis and house building completely ceased in the private sector, they didn\u2019t put money into State housing, which is what was needed to increase the supply of State housing. Instead, they\u2019re like, \u201CLet\u2019s try to create jobs by building some roads.\u201D And by \u201Croads\u201D, I mean the six highways that were announced in 2009, most of which weren\u2019t even procured until the next term of Government and some of which have only recently been completed, many years later.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI bring up transport because, ultimately, if you really look at the numbers in the Government policy statement on land transport and the National Land Transport Programme, as put out by the NZ Transport Agency, it becomes abundantly clear that the Government\u2019s policy on transport will bankrupt the country and it will come at the expense of investment in things like hospitals, schools, and other vitally important public services. Right now, as we debate this Budget Policy Statement, we\u2019ve got the Minister for Infrastructure, and Transport, and the Prime Minister, up there at their\u2014what is it? The private capital festival, which is a joke. I mean, they\u2019ve had to push back this event three times. It\u2019s a talk fest; there\u2019s no reality to it. I believe the Prime Minister actually believes public-private partnerships (PPPs) are free money, that all this foreign capital is just going to come here and build infrastructure in New Zealand for free. No, we have to pay for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThose investors, my friends, want a return on the money they\u2019re putting in, and if they\u2019re putting money into roads, which are only going to raise a tiny fraction of their cost from tolls, that means that future New Zealanders will be paying back the debt that is going to be racked up by this Government. That actually is clear in the Budget Policy Statement, because if you look at figure 2 on page\u00A02, you see very clearly that starting in 2008, net core Crown debt increased under John Key, it started reducing until we hit COVID, and now it\u2019s shooting right back up again. There\u2019s no sign of that reducing. Just because you sign up for a PPP doesn\u2019t mean you don\u2019t have to account for the future repayments to pay it back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a massive gap between forecast revenue from the transport funds and forecast spending once we get outside of this three-year period, and everybody knows it. It\u2019s like the emperor has no clothes. This is ridiculous. It\u2019s ridiculous that Government parties stand up and give their fiscal discipline talking points, say we can\u2019t afford to have decent school lunches for our tamariki, but they can have burned plastic and a few big corporates can maybe make some money off it. It\u2019s abundantly clear that when they talk about doing more with less, they\u2019re talking about doing less with less. We\u2019re not getting quality school lunches, and a vast majority of New Zealanders can see that. The old programme was working, it created local jobs, and it had massive benefits that flow on to the rest of our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EBecause we are a country, we are a society. They will blame individual failure for poverty when it\u2019s a systemic problem created by policies they promote that do not actually benefit all New Zealanders, they benefit the top 1\u00A0percent, and a few big overseas corporates will be milking it off of the money that we\u2019re going to have to pay back in the future. That\u2019s no vision from this coalition Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022f837da3975da4bdcbd3cbc93ab701317\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f837da3975da4bdcbd3cbc93ab701317\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s my pleasure to speak on this debate on the Budget Policy Statement and the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update. We heard from one of the other speakers\u2014who has now left\u2014from the Green Party. She used big words like \u201Cdemonstrably\u201D and \u201Csands of speculation\u201D, but then she has walked off so I can\u2019t demonstrate the very things which this Budget yields\u2014the very things of substance. Of course, on 22\u00A0May, there\u2019s going to be a whole lot more as we approach Budget day, so it\u2019s going to be very exciting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EThis Budget Policy Statement (BPS) is all about economic growth. It\u2019s imbued through the statements, and I will talk through some of those things and qualify some of those attributes. As has been mentioned by our chair Mr Brewer, and other speakers, the cost of living is coming down, inflation is coming down, and the official cash rate is coming down, and that means that for mortgage holders\u2014which is the majority of mum and dads around New Zealand\u2014they\u2019ve got more cash flow in their bank, and an example was $180 a fortnight, based on some of those new interest rates. That\u2019s serious savings, and we do take some tribute for reducing Government spending, which has reduced domestic inflation\u2014we do take some credit\u2014and that\u2019s of benefit for Kiwis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EOur aim is also to grow incomes\u2014not just tax but to grow incomes. I want to quote from the Minister of Finance, as per the Hansard at that January hearing, where she said: \u201CHere\u2019s a statistic I find compelling: additional growth of even a quarter of a\u00A0percent of nominal GDP each year would boost tax revenues by $2\u00A0billion a year, by the end of the forecast period.\u201D If we just think about that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5d36330a1a640ad9dce90f58dad9289\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: But we\u2019re in recession\u2014we\u2019ve been going backwards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f887db299e64b5cacdd991de42a3f82\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014it\u2019s just a quarter of a\u00A0percent. Even you can imagine it, Mr Webb\u2014just a quarter of a\u00A0percent. If we can grow by that much over four years, that\u2019s worth $2\u00A0billion in our tax revenues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EThe Opposition talks about tax, tax, tax. Member Halbert over there was talking about tax cuts for landlords, and I think, frankly, they need a new catchcry, because we know at least a third of landlords are mum and dad Kiwis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EWe want to grow the pie, not just cut the pie\u2014not have a stingy pie and give everyone crumbs, but grow the pie. In fact, we want to give more pies, or grow the pizza, if you like. We know you can cut the pizza into smaller sections or you can just have another pizza. This Budget Policy Statement is all about growing our Kiwi pizza. It\u2019s about job creation. It\u2019s about wage increases. It\u2019s about better public services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022529932023ff340bf8cecf8351c705bb7\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: More ham and pineapple! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ff647cb645c4338a90b2f312a5b0bed\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON\u003C/span\u003E: You can have pineapple, Dan. What do energy-poor countries have in common? They\u2019re poor, and that\u2019s why we want to grow our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EWe want new money. The previous Green member, again, left the House and didn\u2019t get to hear my contribution but she mentioned that this reminds them of the 1990s. When I think about the 1990s, I think about the Spice Girls, the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Pearl Jam, and the RMA\u20141991, the RMA\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262acbb3b598a467f9d60202275757b89\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: R.E.M\u2014it\u2019s R.E.M. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5a0e85be279403990d47af836888bab\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and again\u2014R.E.M. for you. We\u2019ll tribute a song to you. At the BPS hearing\u2014again, if I could quote the Minister: \u201CIn the longer term, we have a productivity disease in New Zealand and our Government is intent on addressing it. Resource Management Act (RMA) reform is an example of this. We know that weaponising our laws against development and construction has been bad for our economy.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EI\u2019m pleased that we are reforming the RMA. Obviously we\u2019ve got some fast-track legislation which is now in train, and some hearing panels will be set up and enable those things to get on and do it. The great thing about them is they\u2019re time consent - bound, so regional councils and consenting authorities can\u2019t keep kicking the can down the road. Developers want to get on and do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EWe want to double our exports, and obviously our Minister is working really hard with free-trade agreements. The Prime Minister is off to India next week. We want to bring in foreign capital, and I want to talk about the business summit, soon, and there\u2019s an example of that. I love talking about infrastructure, one of the key pillars of our productivity pipeline. We want to have 30 years of infrastructure certainty. We have invited, obviously, the Hon Barbara Edmonds to the business summit because, where possible, we want bipartisan support. We want our development community to have certainty into the future of New Zealand, so it means big contractors can invest in the capital requirement to employ and develop. Yes, building roads, because building roads takes a lot of employment. You know, the great thing about when the road is completed? Then we\u2019ve got enhanced productivity and people can get somewhere faster and do more, more efficiently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EThe former member talked about public-private partnerships. That\u2019s just one tool, and we\u2019re looking at special purpose vehicles. We\u2019re looking at infrastructure funding and financing tools. We\u2019re looking at tolling. There are multiple ways that we can fund infrastructure, but we can\u2019t keep doing it the way we\u2019ve done it. Councils have reached debt ceilings, the Crown has reached debt ceilings\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204847db2f0104f768e51eced2e3f9c39\u0022\u003EHon Dr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: No, it hasn\u2019t. The Crown doesn\u2019t have a debt ceiling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf244ccd84e446d9b1095a726ef47e91\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and we need to be innovative. Oh, you just print more money, is that right? You just print more money. No, we want to bring in the opportunity for foreign investment. In terms of the RMA at the moment, we\u2019ve got resource management amendments, we\u2019ve done the fast-track resource management amendments because we want to unshackle this RMA that the Minister spoke of, around infrastructure and energy, housing growth, obviously making the medium-density residential standards optional, which is really important for those councils to provide a nuanced solution so they can do infill housing around public transport and areas where it makes sense, rather than sort of a helter-skelter approach, and natural hazards and system improvements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003ETo talk about the investment summit this week, just to give, I guess, some context to what it might mean. Some of the members opposite might realise that there\u2019s some other countries involved: Australia, Canada, China, Denmark, France, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Malaysia\u2014I\u2019m just going to take a breath\u2014Netherlands, Singapore, Spain, the United Kingdom, and the United States of America. We\u2019re going to show our international visitors in no uncertain terms that New Zealand is open for business. We\u2019re not just going on a trade delegation to say, \u201CGidday, mate, we\u2019re from Australia; we\u2019re from New Zealand.\u201D We actually want to invite people to say, \u201CHere\u2019s a tangible way you can invest in our economy where everyone can benefit, including Kiwis.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EThe financial companies and institutions attending the summit manage assets and funds worth around $6 trillion worth of capital. They include pension funds, sovereign wealth funds, and major banks. The challenge for us is just getting out of the way and enabling this for the benefit of all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re also moving quickly to provide a regulatory environment which will open up that framework, but also, even with local councils\u2014with our Minister Penk\u2014trying to make it easier for builders to get consenting projects and even unified across councils. In my local example, we\u2019ve got Hamilton, we\u2019ve got Waip\u0101, we\u2019ve got Waikato, we\u2019ve got a regional council, and building developers don\u2019t know who to talk, to half the time and it\u2019s so confused.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E I guess the word I want to bring to all of this is \u201Calignment\u201D. In the RMA, we\u2019ve got Local Water Done Well, we\u2019ve got the infrastructure funding and financing, and we\u2019ve got consenting, and if we get all these things lined up, this country\u2019s going to take off. You know who\u2019s going to benefit? It\u2019s going to be New Zealanders. It\u2019s going to lift wages and lift prosperity and lift the economy for all of us. We\u2019re also very passionate about innovation, science, and technology. Part of the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226588d2ba88064bc89a087d19df36170b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: You fired the scientists. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241e460c6a87b4d5292a32f3dc3b856a0\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ll see some efficiencies come out\u2014just be patient\u2014as part of the antidote, if you will, to our productivity disease. I was at Waikato University last week with Minister Shane Reti, at the Ahuora Centre symposium on decarbonising process heat. We heard about collaboration between structural engineers and chemical engineers designing things using AI. I even got to see some of the intellectual property in action with asparagus pickers and a machine that would go over a vineyard and analyse grape vines and could use AI tools to work out where to trim. These are the sorts of things that are going to be productive to our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EOf course, tourism; we\u2019ve had a massive announcement this week of $3\u00A0million for the international visitor conservation fund. It\u2019s going to be awesome. In fact, we\u2019re really excited about tourism in Hamilton. Obviously, as MP for Hamilton East, Hamilton\u2014of course, everyone knows it\u2019s New Zealand\u2019s fastest-growing city and the city of the future. We\u2019ve got the Pullman Hotel, built by the Pisos and Sanjils of the world. We\u2019ve got the Templeton Group eyeing up some hot property in Hamilton, overlooking the mighty awa. We\u2019ve got the Regional Theatre, a $100\u00A0million project which is going to attract visitors, on top of the Hamilton Gardens, which has half a\u00A0million visitors a year, and it\u2019s in the top 1\u00A0percent on TripAdvisor. It\u2019s all happening, and it\u2019s a catalyst for confidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EI know you\u2019re ready to jump to your feet, Deborah Russell, but we\u2019re not quite there yet. All these things are a catalyst for confidence. \u201CEveryone must go\u201D to New Zealand. We\u2019re on a path of productivity, we\u2019re on a path of delivering a great Budget on 22 May, and I can\u2019t wait. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf5334f4034f4ddea1210aae3bf3c730\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf5334f4034f4ddea1210aae3bf3c730\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to remind this House about what New Zealanders really, really care about. They care about jobs. They care about health. They care about homes. There are a lot of fancy words and economic concepts in this debate\u2014a lot of talking about fiscal ceilings and growth and measures of how we measure the economy, but at the end of the day, what New Zealanders really want to know is how what the Government is doing matters for their jobs, how it matters as to whether or not they can get healthcare, how it matters as to whether or not they have a warm, dry home to live in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESee, the Budget Policy Statement is full of lots of numbers, full of economic concepts, but the Budget is not just about numbers and economic concepts; it is the Government\u2019s plan for New Zealand, the plan for the coming year, and it is a plan from that Government which is severely lacking. Let me take you through how it just misses out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe Government has said that it has four policy areas that it\u2019s going to focus on in Budget 2025. In the first of those, it says it\u2019s going to lift economic growth through measures to address New Zealand\u2019s long-term productivity challenges. Well, they seem to think they can do it just by saying the words, \u201CGrowth, growth, growth, growth, growth.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ELet me unpack what needs to be done in order to get growth up. It means we need ordinary people with well-paid jobs. It means we need scientists creating the innovative research that takes New Zealand forward. It means we need people getting good quality education. That growth, growth, growth, growth, growth and productivity, for ordinary New Zealanders, it means: do they have a well-paid job where they can use machinery and equipment that lifts their productivity? Do we have scientists doing the work out in the fields with the farmers to help lift the productivity there, and in the labs, creating innovative research? That Government has fired 500 or so scientists so far. It\u2019s gotten rid of them, getting rid of some of our best and brightest. That\u2019s their commitment to growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThat Government has not put aside any extra money for education so far. It has a really limited amount of money it can spend this Budget because of the constraints it\u2019s put on itself. So far, most of that has been allocated to health. There is no room even for inflation adjustments in education. That Government is not committed\u2014much as it might say it is, it is not committed to ensuring that every New Zealander gets a decent education. How, then, are they going to lift growth? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe next thing they said they were going to concentrate on was what they call social investment, and they said what that means is trying to get better results from the Government\u2019s investment in social services. But what have they done there? They have undermined the health system. There is less money per person in health. So much for an investment in social services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIn fact, there are some really nasty overtones that have come through from the Government. We\u2019ve seen it in the policies mentioned by some of the parties in this House that when it comes to medicines\u2014this is in political party policy agendas\u2014perhaps medicines will only be available for people who are productive. I think straightforwardly decent healthcare ought to be available for all New Zealanders, and we know at the moment that New Zealanders just can\u2019t get it. There\u2019s nothing in this document that talks about how we\u2019re going to ensure good healthcare for all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThey talk about how one of the four things they\u2019re going to do is have tight control of Government spending, so they\u2019re going to make sure that all Government money is spent really effectively. Just today, we had the Minister of Finance coming out with some new procurement rules, how Government departments would go about procuring services. Sitting in there is a line which says that they will no longer require Government agencies to employ only services that pay the living wage for cleaners, for catering, for security guards, and so on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWhat does that mean for ordinary New Zealanders, the ordinary New Zealanders who are the cleaners, who are the security guards, who are the cooks? Well, if they are no longer paid the living wage and get the minimum wage instead, that is a drop in their wages of $186 a week or $9,672 a year. That is that Government\u2019s commitment to ordinary New Zealanders\u2014taking nearly $10,000 a year off the people who work hard as security guards, the people who work hard as cooks, the people who work hard as cleaners. That is that Government\u2019s commitment to decent, well-paying jobs. It is taking money off the hardest workers who are paid some of the lowest wages in our country, and they are making it even worse. That is absolutely shameful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIn terms of those procurement rules they\u2019ve come up with today, the other thing they\u2019ve said is that they are no longer going to require Government services to have buildings built to a five-star rating standard, they should no longer be required to have battery electric or hybrid electric vehicles, and they should no longer have to use low-waste or recyclable products. There is no commitment to working on building a sustainable economy from that Government\u2014not sustainable in terms of money but sustainable in terms of the environment we live in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThis Budget Policy Statement is remarkably silent about the hugest issue we have facing us, and that is the issue of climate change, but it\u2019s lurking in there. It\u2019s lurking in there in these cuts to Government services where they are going to cut any commitment to working on climate change. That is shameful too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThen, in their fourth strategy, they\u2019ve said they\u2019re going to develop a sustainable pipeline of long-term infrastructure investments. The ferries\u2014what happened there? A massive piece of infrastructure this country needs and they cut it. Dunedin Hospital\u2014a massive piece of infrastructure that this country needs and is particularly needed in the South Island, and what did they do? They put it on hold and incurred more costs. We know that there\u2019s about $800\u00A0million that has gone down the tubes because of the very short-sighted decision that Government made on the ferries. We know that they incurred more costs because they simply sat on Dunedin Hospital for a while, and now they talk about making good long-term infrastructure decisions. They\u2019ve got a very poor record in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIn terms of those strategies that the Government has for ordinary people in New Zealand, it has meant cuts, it has meant insecure services, it has meant that the sorts of jobs that we want are not being funded. If we talk about the sorts of things that we care about\u2014jobs, health, homes\u2014that Government is not interested in them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThen they did a nasty, fudgy little cover-up job in the Budget Policy Statement. In the Budget Fiscal Strategy Report for Budget 2024, the Government then made a commitment. It said it would return the operating balance before gains and losses to being positive by 2027-28, but by the time they came around to doing the numbers this year, they realised they simply couldn\u2019t do it, so they came up with a new measure, the operating balance before gains and losses, excluding ACC revenue and expenses. They couldn\u2019t get the books to say what they wanted, so they fudged them instead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWe had a long discussion at the Finance and Expenditure Committee about this as to whether it was appropriate to create this new measure. Treasury said no. The experts we consulted said no. Everyone said it was just smoke and mirrors\u2014smoke and mirrors designed to cover up the failings of that Government. Failing in the jobs front, failing with respect to health, failing with respect to homes, and trying to cover up that failure by introducing a dodgy accounting measure. The only person who wanted it was the Minister of Finance. Every single other person advised against it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThat is an absolute train wreck of a Government. They should admit it and should admit it right now. They should change their leader who\u2019s leading them astray, and they need to do better by ordinary New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022 data-id=\u00229d44c146f64f4e2b973f6e75b7b85198\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d44c146f64f4e2b973f6e75b7b85198\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s an honour to actually speak on the Budget Policy Statement (BPS) and the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update in front of you today\u2014well, the Budget that lays the foundation for a stronger, a more resilient economy, and relief for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EFor those who have just tuned in on TV and for those who have visited us in the gallery right now, I think we should tell you what the BPS stands for. The Budget Policy Statement commences officially the Budget cycle for the Government. It sets out the Government\u2019s fiscal strategy and the broad goals and policy objectives that will shape the upcoming Budget. This side of the House will tell you that the upcoming Budget is on 22 May\u2014there we go. This is what the BPS is about and many of the speakers in front of you today are the members of Finance and Expenditure Committee and we had the first opportunity to scrutinise the BPS 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003ENow, let\u2019s be honest. The past few years have been tough\u2014very high inflation, rising interest rates, and very slow economic recovery that has stretched household budgets and pressured our Kiwi businesses. Many families have struggled with the grocery bills, the utility bills, the rent, mortgages, childcare costs\u2014everyday costs that people struggle with\u2014but also our small businesses in New Zealand who are fighting to stay afloat with the reduced income revenue, with managing higher operating costs and higher wages. So many, many New Zealanders have felt the pressure and also the uncertainty about their financial future, but today we stand at a turning point. The largest economic indicators show that we are now moving towards recovery as a whole, but only if we stay disciplined, cut wasteful spending, and focus on sustainable economic growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003ESo where are we right now? I think we need to be very clear about where we are as a country. Laid out very clearly in the BPS, New Zealand\u2019s fiscal position has deteriorated over the last six years\u2014this is actually on page\u00A02; it\u2019s a public document that everyone\u2019s welcome to read. New Zealand\u2019s fiscal position has deteriorated over the past six years. Crown expenses have risen faster than core Crown revenue. The operating balance before gains and losses, which is commonly referred to as OBEGAL, has been in deficit since 2019 and the 2020 year. And, yes, all of the above is during the last Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EThe fiscal deterioration is due to many several factors, including large discretionary spending increases in previous Budgets; for example, in Budget 2022, the last Labour Government committed an additional $9.5\u00A0billion on average for the new operating spending. Yes, through the COVID period, but yes, also more debt. More debt, way more debt, and also\u00A0the finance costs that we now need to service debt. Now, some members spoke before me in the Opposition, including members from the Labour Party and the Green Party, and referred to some of the diagrams in the BPS. I find it very funny that the Green member kind of stopped talking about the net Crown debt that went all the way up under the Labour Government. That\u2019s very funny. But, hey, look\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef81d0e4d5cd4359bace8f02607cc8a6\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Wasteful spending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9498fbefedd4eaab38f746476ab4c2f\u0022\u003ENANCY LU\u003C/span\u003E: Wasteful spending for sure. But now, after facing the economic downturn as a whole, Treasury\u2019s Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update, commonly referred to as the HYEFU, in 2024 gave us some reasons to look to the future\u2014some optimism. Inflation now is back under control after peaking at 7.3\u00A0percent in 2022-23. Inflation now has finally returned to the Reserve Bank\u2019s target range between 1 and 3\u00A0percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EWhat this means for New Zealanders is it directly reduces price pressures for households and supermarkets and petrol and in many others. The official cash rate (OCR) is also coming down. Since August 2024, the Reserve Bank has cut the OCR by 1.75\u00A0percent at the time of the BPS, which lowers the borrowing cost. What that means for our Kiwi households is that if you have a $500,000 average mortgage in your bank account, this means a saving of $180\u00A0per fortnight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EMore great news: since the release of the BPS 2025, which was December 2024, the Reserve Bank has further announced another reduction in February, which is last month, that further reduced the OCR rate by another 50 basis points to 3.75. Now, this is four consecutive reductions since August last year, meaning our rates have fallen a lot faster. However, there is an upside. Business confidence has finally improved at a 10year high. Businesses are now starting to invest, they are hiring again, and they are signalling a turning point for job growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EHowever, the challenges remain. Challenges remain, and we are very, very early in this economic growth space. Economic growth has been a little bit slower than expected, which means that things are sticky. However, we have a plan, and this is where the Budget Policy Statement becomes very, very useful. One of the biggest challenges that we are facing as a Government is fixing the Government\u2019s books. Now, over the last six years, as I said earlier, the Government\u2019s spending has outpaced Government revenue. Our net core Crown debt has surged from below 20\u00A0percent of GDP under the Labour Government to around 42\u00A0percent of New Zealand\u2019s GDP. Treasury has also forecast a structural deficit, which means the Government is still required to spend more than we can cope with, so we have a plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EOur fiscal strategy is very clear: No. 1 is to return OBEGAL to surplus by 2027-28; reduce core Crown expenses to 30\u00A0percent of GDP to ensure that spending is sustainable; lower net Crown debt towards 40\u00A0percent of GDP; and now I must quote from when we scrutinised and invited the Minister of Finance to our select committee to present. This is what she said: \u201CIt is unsustainable for the Government to grow the economy by borrowing money.\u201D Noting the consequences of inflation, she said, \u201CIt is better to grow the economy by improving productive capacity in long-term growth prospects.\u201D And we have heard from members on our side of the Government that any additional growth of just 0.25\u00A0percent of nominal GDP would increase our annual tax revenue by $2\u00A0billion. This is what we talk about\u2014by growing the pie, like the member for Hamilton East, Ryan Hamilton said\u2014grow the pie. This is what we need to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003ETo achieve this, Budget 2025 has three very clear actions: cap the operating allowances to $2.4\u00A0billion per year, ensuring that there is disciplined spending in our Government agencies; performance-based budgeting to make sure that every taxpayer dollar that we spend must deliver results for our taxpayers; targeted capital investment so that funds would only go into high impact projects, not wasteful spending\u2014so a shared strategy and the plan. But I now must go on to what it means for New Zealanders, because I think most people who have tuned in on TV and then also the people sitting in the gallery have listened to all the jargon. Yes, I am a chartered accountant; I love all the jargon and all the accounting, but what does it really mean for all of you sitting here today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EFor families, a better economy means lower inflation, more affordability, more choices in your supermarkets, more choices for your kids and extracurricular activities, more choices when you decide if you are going away for a holiday or saving up for something really nice for the family. It also means a recovering job market, creating better employment opportunities, higher incomes, and therefore it goes back to more choices for our families and also easing mortgage rates, making homeownership more manageable and making rentals more manageable, and for all the small businesses and investors in our economy, which are the majority of them, better regulatory certainty, cutting out the red tape, and pro-business policies that will encourage growth, recognise their hard work, and support them for their expansion in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EIt also means lowering the barriers to trade and investment\u2014for example, the investment summit that many of my colleagues have mentioned today\u2014but also for the taxpayers. Ultimately, as a Government, we need to be responsible for all taxpayer money. It is your money, so we need to make sure as a Government that you are getting a better return because we have better fiscal management, ensuring that your hard-earned money is spent wisely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EThis is a plan that will protect future generations to come, and this is the plan that will make New Zealand wealthier, make all New Zealanders wealthier, and we have a better future outlook. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00225c60c32e893042babab90a0f1c973d2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c60c32e893042babab90a0f1c973d2b\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E That was another terrible speech from this Government. It was so fixed on growth\u2014growth. As you\u2019ve heard from this side, jobs, health, and homes have to be the priority for this Government, but they aren\u2019t the priority for this Government. They\u2019re certainly the priority for the Labour Party and for the Opposition. I am proud that we have made that very clear in the last week. Our leader made that clear in his recent speech and in his recent reshuffle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard from a Government that knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Their Budget Policy Statement is a vacant list of promises that won\u2019t be met, because, ultimately, what we see from this Government is an economic policy that betrays the people for the donors\u2019 interests. I think that\u2019s what our communities are saying, and you\u2019d have to agree with that. To claim, as they have, to have contained inflation with their austerity Budget is a nonsense and a falsehood. As we all know, inflation skyrocketed because COVID shut down global supply chains. For National to take credit for inflation falling because those global supply chains reopened is such a load of nonsense it\u2019s not funny.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe severe cutbacks this Government has embarked upon to pay for tax cuts we couldn\u2019t afford\u2014that\u2019s not good economic management at all. If it was good economic management, you wouldn\u2019t be looking at a 5.1\u00A0percent unemployment rate, and we know that 9.7\u00A0percent of that is M\u0101ori, and 10.7\u00A0percent of that is Pasifika. Thirty-one\u00A0percent of Kiwis are struggling to pay their power bill, 24\u00A0percent are struggling to buy food, 26\u00A0percent are struggling to pay rent, 29\u00A0percent are struggling with transport costs, one in four kids are going hungry\u2014this is where the growth strategy has taken us. It\u2019s just shocking at the moment. Violence against children is rising. Homelessness is rising. Inequality is rising. Mortgage missed payments and unpaid bills are at their highest level in a decade. This is where their great management has got us right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThis Government\u2019s economic focus is cutting more public spending and hoping that no one notices. They can\u2019t manage to get basic edible food to our kids at school. It\u2019s a total disgrace and embarrassment at the moment, and we\u2019re seeing that every day in question time\u2014the embarrassment that we\u2019re seeing on the faces of Minister Stanford as she has to put up with Minister Seymour\u2019s nonsense. As we all know, he never even wanted to feed the kids, which was the original ACT policy. You\u2019re dealing with a Minister who never wanted to feed the kids, and you\u2019ve got the shambles right now in terms of the school lunches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI want to come to an area that not many have touched on, which is the investment in M\u0101ori, which has gone right down, and although the Government have talked about their four policy areas\u2014lifting economic productivity, social investment. These are the areas that the Government talks about. The investment in M\u0101ori, as we see with this Budget, is minimal. We\u2019ve seen a total decrease in terms of M\u0101ori housing. It\u2019s really sad to see that. Yes, there are pockets of investment happening, but far from enough, and so we need to see our M\u0101ori groups being invested in. In the M\u0101ori health area, there is a real minimal investment there. As we know, in terms of the general investment in terms of health, per person it is way below where it should be. And, in terms of M\u0101ori social services, we\u2019ve had the shocking news of Wh\u0101nau Ora in the last couple of days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EA lot of questions there for our communities\u2014hundreds of workers now being made redundant. Questions have to be asked about the process there, where we had a provider for 10 years, who had it in terms of Te Pou Matakana, in terms of our northern Wh\u0101nau Ora commissioning agency\u2014$155\u00A0million allocated. Now that $155\u00A0million has to go to an extra agency. Where is the investment in terms of our people at ground level? Should they be worried about this recent decision, in terms of Wh\u0101nau Ora? We say yes. We say to the Minister for M\u0101ori Development to step up, and we say: invest in M\u0101ori, but invest in all our people\u2014communities and people right across the nation. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbfc0e6c2f21478dae7f2c9956edb4ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbfc0e6c2f21478dae7f2c9956edb4ac\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Look, I rise with great pleasure to speak about the Budget Policy Statement because this year, things are looking up for hard-working Kiwis. It has been tough for families during a cost of living crisis inflicted on them by the Labour Government, who spent big, taxed big, and fuelled inflation to record highs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EWell, the green shoots are here. Responsible fiscal management is back. Inflation is back under control. Interest rates are coming down. Hard-working New Zealanders have more in their back pockets with tax relief and mortgage rates coming down. There is business confidence. There is farmer confidence. In fact, farmer confidence has surged in the recent surveys, because they know that they\u2019ve got a Government that is backing them. We know that farmers and businesses are the key to unleashing the economic potential in this country. Getting rid of red tape and regulation, and celebrating our primary sector and our exporters is key to everyone getting ahead in New Zealand. This year is all about going for growth. We need to grow the pie, as we have heard many times today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EI turn to education, because lifting performance in education is the way that we are going to strengthen our economy and create more equality. We\u2019re developing a world-class education system. I\u2019ve been out and about across my Tukituki electorate, where we have 61 schools across my Hawke\u2019s Bay electorate. They are loving the new curriculum, where we are looking to lift performance in education with structured maths and structured literacy. I was recently, actually, in the classroom at Te Mata School, and the kids and teachers were loving the new maths books and the new structured maths programme, the Numicon resources, where they were learning maths, they were getting back to basics in the classroom\u2014reading, writing and maths. Also, we\u2019re improving teacher training, raising attendance, and strengthening learning support. This is what creates equality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EInfrastructure is another big focus in the Budget Policy Statement. We must have better-quality infrastructure and look out to a 30-year pipeline of infrastructure. On this side of the House, we aren\u2019t just visualising it and wasting money on ideas and consultants; we\u2019ve actually got diggers on site, shovels in the ground, roads being built, and fast-track legislation in place to actually make this possible so we can get things built in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EI\u2019m so excited to see the four-lane expressway in Hawke\u2019s Bay, the first road of national significance to get started. Every week I drive that road, I\u2019m seeing progress. We\u2019re seeing diggers there, and we\u2019re seeing progress because construction has started. It\u2019s something that we campaigned on in Hawke\u2019s Bay, and we are delivering on it because we are a Government of action. We understand that infrastructure is really important in this country. Roads are what drive economic potential. It\u2019s what gets our produce to the port\u2014our apples to the port, our wine to the port, and our meat to the port\u2014and off to market so that we can get that high value for our exports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003ENot only are we investing in the four-lane Hawke\u2019s Bay Expressway; but the Waikare Gorge realignment is also happening. Again, we recognise that that road between Napier and Wairoa is so important for our exports and trade and for getting people around faster. But the other infrastructure that we are investing in is water storage, because water storage creates water security. In Hawke\u2019s Bay, we can\u2019t even grow what we have, let alone grow any more, so water security is really important. It\u2019s really amazing to see $3\u00A0million invested for the Tukituki water storage scheme so that we can unleash the economic potential that we have in the regions across New Zealand and support our primary industries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EThis is what is going to grow our economy, and this is what is going to strengthen our economy, both in Hawke\u2019s Bay and across New Zealand. With that, I absolutely support our Budget Policy Statement, and I look forward to the Budget on 22 May.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00226a80780d659847d29b99b441936fd2b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a80780d659847d29b99b441936fd2b3\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. We stand today in the middle of an economic crisis, a crisis that has been made worse by the decisions of this Government, the bad choices this Government has made. The facts are pretty clear. Unemployment is rising, jobs are being slashed, wages are stagnant, and hard-working New Zealanders are struggling to make ends meet. Yet, this Government has the audacity to claim that their economic management is responsible and effective.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe Budget Policy Statement (BPS) lays out the truth. It confirms what New Zealanders already feel in their day-to-day lives: things were better under Labour. It states right here: growth through 2023 and 2024 was stronger than originally thought. But since then, since National took office, the economy has taken a sharp downturn. The BPS itself states this was largely offset by a stronger cyclical downturn since then. In other words, National\u2019s policies have made things worse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EJobs, health, and homes is what Kiwis are after. When we hear National telling us that things are looking up for hard-working New Zealanders and I\u2019m seeing green shoots everywhere, maybe they should talk to one of my constituents who wrote to me just yesterday and said, \u201CI wish Chris Luxon would stop talking about putting money in the pockets of New Zealanders. The only thing he is worried about is lining the pockets of his rich mates and multinational companies. The latest line charge for my gas was $45 in February; I used only $14 in gas. The cost of power is expected to rise by $10 a month. My rates in the Hutt City Council are expected to rise by 16\u00A0percent. My home and contents insurance for my house in Petone has increased by 36\u00A0percent. I got $30 per fortnight in so-called tax cuts. There is no money in my back pocket. I have medical conditions and now have to pay for my prescriptions. I go to the doctor often, at $70 a visit. I live alone so no double income here. I\u2019m paying a mortgage, paying bills, and everything is increasing in price apart from a reduction in my interest rates when I refix next week. My back pocket would like some money in it. I count myself fortunate as I can pay what I need to pay. I don\u2019t know what others are doing out there who are doing so tough. I\u2019m not rich. I\u2019m not sorted for my retirement in a few years\u2019 time.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s the plan for people who are real New Zealanders, from this Government? There isn\u2019t one. But we have one on this side. It\u2019s called jobs, health, and homes. Let\u2019s take a good look at what is happening right now with jobs, because there\u2019s higher unemployment, with 213,000 New Zealanders now on the unemployment benefit. We have an economy that is operating below capacity, as the BPS states, and that means fewer jobs, less income, and more hardship for people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EMass layoffs in a couple of areas\u2014let\u2019s just take a look at Callaghan Innovation. The Government came in and laid off scientists, research staff, and support staff, with no plan for an alternative entity. That meant all of those highly skilled individuals, those innovators and scientists, are left with no certainty in their future. They are applying for jobs offshore. I\u2019ve met with them. They\u2019re applying for jobs in the Netherlands and Australia because there is no certainty of employment here. The Government can announce a great PhD programme that they\u2019ve given some money to and they can talk about saving 20 jobs in one part, but they have just laid off a vast majority of bright people innovating while yet still claiming to be going for growth\u2014absolutely unbelievable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe construction sector is another one. Significant infrastructure projects like the Interislander ferries being rail-enabled cancelled\u2014a $300 million break fee, $300\u00A0million and rising just to break the fee. We\u2019ve also seen big projects from K\u0101inga Ora right around the country cancelled and stopped. The result of all those big infrastructure projects being cancelled was 13,000 construction workers leaving the sector, enough for them to write to the Minister and say that the sector is on its knees and we need to be doing something. The answer to this is to hold a talkfest with a bunch of foreigners who are going to go and save us all and invest in New Zealand. No plan for us. We have a downward spiral of cutting jobs, losing people overseas, and no real plan to address this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EOn top of this, we\u2019ve seen losses right across the public sector, not just public servants in Wellington but right across in front-facing jobs\u2014Oranga Tamariki, health workers, social workers cut by this Government. And what has that seen? A further retrenchment in the economy, because what we are seeing is less people out there being able to buy things in local businesses. That\u2019s why, in Wellington alone, so many restaurants, so many cafes, so many small-business owners who have worked for 20 or 30 years to keep their doors open, are now closed permanently with higher levels of insolvencies than we have seen in such a long time. Every one of these job losses is a real person losing their income, their ability to support their families, and their sense of security, and yet this Government still pats itself on the back claiming fiscal responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ENational promised economic growth; instead, the economy is projected to be $20\u00A0billion smaller by 2028 than was forecast in Budget 2024. While they promised to create jobs, unemployment is to rise every single year in the Budget period. By 2026, there will be 20,000 more New Zealanders on jobseeker support than there would have been otherwise. That is 20,000 more families struggling to pay rent, struggling to buy groceries and to heat their homes in winter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ENational\u2019s obsession with tax cuts\u2014and let\u2019s not forget that while we\u2019re having these cuts across, they borrowed for tax cuts for landlords, cuts that overwhelmingly benefit the wealthy. This has come at a massive cost to everyday New Zealanders. The $58.7\u00A0billion increase to debt and 46.5\u00A0percent net core Crown debt peak are direct consequences of bad choices that this Government has made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWho is paying for it? It is those people I\u2019ve spoken about\u2014that letters I got from people, people who don\u2019t have the money to buy the basics, people who work hard each day but still can\u2019t afford to feed their families. The problem is it\u2019s only going to get worse. The Budget Policy Statement signals that in Budget 2025 there is just $700\u00A0million available for all spending outside of health. That means more cuts to the public sector, more cuts to social services, and more uncertainty for those who rely on Government support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s be clear here. The Government has already pre-committed $1.37\u00A0billion per annum just to keep health services running at their current level. That leaves almost nothing for education. It means nothing for housing and infrastructure\u2014I guess, hence why we\u2019re having this meeting over the next few days. There\u2019s nothing there and nothing for wage increases for our hard-working people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESpeaking of wage increases, I\u2019ll just deviate for one moment to talk about what the Government\u2019s announced today in terms of the procurement rules for Government contracts. Today, it was announced that out of those rules being changed, one is taking away the living wage. The living wage has come out of procurement in an announcement today. At the same time as trying to talk about productivity and trying to make the cost of living crisis better, you\u2019re taking the living wage out of Government procurement rules\u2014an absolute shame, and it is absolutely relevant to this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s talk about some of the real consequences that we are seeing, in conclusion. It is important to note that this Government has shifted the goal posts. While people are losing their jobs and financial security, the Minister of Finance has made a big deal out of reaching surplus, but now she\u2019s had to push it out even further. She knows she can\u2019t meet those targets that have been promised, so instead she\u2019s created a brand new measure\u2014operating balance before gains and losses, excluding ACC revenue and expenses (OBEGALx)\u2014to make it look like she\u2019s on track. The original OBEGAL measure has been used for years. A review in 2021 confirmed it was fit for purpose, but now, because National\u2019s policies are failing, they\u2019re trying to rewrite the rules to make themselves look better. The truth is that under the original OBEGAL measure, New Zealand will not reach surplus in its forecast period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI leave with you: what is responsible about this Government, that it makes promises it can\u2019t keep and changes the rules when it fails, and it pushes the cost of its failure on to everyday working families? We need a Government that puts people first, that puts their jobs and their incomes first, that makes sure we have a health system that functions properly, and people can go home at night knowing that they have a warm, dry home. We\u2019re a long way from that under this Budget Policy Statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u0022a424519549534609bf299e385b064404\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a424519549534609bf299e385b064404\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E In the final part of this debate of the Budget Policy Statement, I wish to speak directly to Kiwi voters. In the backdrop of the Budget Policy Statement, we know times have been tough. Unemployment is rising, people are still struggling with the cost of living, and we\u2019re dealing with the worst recession since the early 1990s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EWe are in a mess. But who caused this mess? It was the last Labour Government. They are the ones that doubled our debt, that had wasteful spending on projects like KiwiBuild, light rail, Skypath, three waters, Health New Zealand, Te P\u016Bkenga, and the highest crime rates in a generation. We are in a mess, but we take responsibility for getting us out of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EI come back to the big Budget Policy Statement, because it is quite clear from the Minister of Finance that we\u2019ve got Budget deficits right through to 2028. We\u2019ve got increased public debt until 2029, low growth and productivity, an unproductive public sector. There are some green shoots, and we\u2019ve talked about them today. The official cash rate is coming down because inflation is under control and we are starting to see, in fact, wage growth starting to outpace inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EI just want to zoom out because having just had a son\u2014my first child\u2014nine months ago, I just want to talk about the long-term fiscal challenges that New Zealand faces, because that\u2019s what I worry about for my son and the future for this country. Alongside the Budget Policy Statement, a month earlier, the chief economist of the Treasury\u2014who is a proud Northcote local\u2014published a document on New Zealand\u2019s long-term fiscal challenges. It\u2019s quite sobering because it does talk about our long-term productivity challenges and the fact that our kids, our grandkids, inherit a future with high debt, low incomes, and low productivity, low opportunities, and poor public services if nothing changes. That is why we have to go for growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EThe other side will talk about an alternative approach, which is to tax everybody and everything more. That is not a sustainable pathway for New Zealand to follow. The finance Minister has talked about improving our productivity rates, which successive Governments have failed to actually make a measurable difference to, and by doing so, going for economic growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EI want to touch on today a few key areas which I think are going to help power our economy up dramatically. The first is on trade, and don\u2019t we have a great trade Minister in Todd McClay? \u201CTrade McClay\u201D, we call him. We\u2019ve already done deals with the UAE, with the Gulf Cooperation Council, and we\u2019ve got the big fish coming up soon where he\u2019s off to India. Won\u2019t that be good for New Zealand if we can secure a free-trade agreement with India? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EThe next is investment. I\u2019m really proud of the Government\u2019s work to make this an investor-friendly country to operate in. David Seymour\u2019s work around overhauling the Overseas Investment Act is very, very important, as is our announcement recently to set up Invest New Zealand, a one-stop shop where overseas investors can come to and get advice on where the great places are to invest in the country. I think the simple answer to that is Northcote in Auckland. We have heard from great speakers here about our investment summit, and my best wishes to Ministers up and down our Government who will be attending the summit. This is an important summit for the future of our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225abd7730221644b78eb865825d6c5ce7\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: Going for growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022869899e2b67f4ccda4e4756074451ec3\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: Going for growth. The third area is deregulation. We are entering an era of deregulation both here and around the world. We\u2019ve got important steps to free up the resource management, to fast track investment projects around the country, and we\u2019ve got a Ministry for Regulation, which I hope the Minister for Regulation, David Seymour, may change to deregulation, because I think that is a more appropriate phrase for this Government\u2019s agenda to power up and go for growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EThe next area is around our science reforms, and we\u2019ve got some fantastic reforms around getting more value out of our science system. The final area is around competition. We\u2019ve just come from a banking inquiry summit, ably chaired by my colleague Cameron Brewer. There is important work that we need to do to make our banking sector more competitive, but not only that, we can\u2019t just stop at the banking sector. I come from the grocery sector, and this is another important sector that needs further competition. We\u2019ve got here the Minister of Energy, Simon Watts, who is driving more competition and putting pressure on those energy companies to keep the lights on and at a cheaper price. Also, I want to single out the Minister for Building and Construction, Chris Penk, who\u2019s doing some great work to lower the cost of building and improve the productivity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve got some great things that are going to make a huge difference for our growth projections both in the short term\u2014and the Budget Policy Statement does talk about the fact that we are returning to growth this year. That is good news, but we can\u2019t stop there because it really is about our future and making sure\u2014not our future, actually; our kids\u2019 future and our grandkids\u2019 future. What are the things that this Government is doing today that are going to make New Zealand a more prosperous country in 10 or 20 years\u2019 time? That\u2019s what we\u2019re really focused on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EI want to just touch on education because I think that\u2019s a really good bipartisan issue across the Parliament; everybody wants our kids to have a great education. For years we haven\u2019t had a disciplined enough approach around teaching the basics brilliantly. I\u2019m really proud of the work that our Minister Erica Stanford is doing to make sure that in every school, no matter where you grow up in this country, you get taught the basics brilliantly. From the basics, you get to do really cool stuff like economics or engineering or robotics or accounting, but without those basics, those opportunities and those high-income opportunities won\u2019t be unlocked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EIt is a pleasure to round off the debate today, and I\u2019ve heard a lot from this side about growth. I\u2019ve only heard a couple of times growth echoed on the other side. That may be because the other side doesn\u2019t know how to deliver growth. We\u2019ve got a lot to do\u2014we\u2019ve got a lot to do. For New Zealanders out there up and down the country, my message to you is this: give us time to see the fruits of the labour that we\u2019re doing and the reforms that we\u2019re working on. I\u2019m confident that by the back end of this year, people will start feeling like they can get ahead, they can feel safer, and they can feel that there\u2019s a real strong future for them and their family. We are going for growth. The Budget is coming up on what date?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281675b056dd9424c84852d4444eb9862\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: 22 May.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be2135e3fc724ad9941e775a1ee6d832\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: 22 May. The finance Minister has indicated that it\u2019s going to be a growth Budget. She\u2019s put some teasers out there, and even I don\u2019t know what\u2019s in the Budget, but I\u2019m hopeful. I\u2019m really hopeful around some tax changes because as an economist\u2014there\u2019s not a lot that economists agree on, actually, but the one thing economists agree on is the power of the tax system to spur long-term and short-term economic growth. I\u2019m really excited about the teasing that the Minister of Finance has talked about in the media. We\u2019ll be waiting for that eagerly on 22 May\u2014which is the day after my son\u2019s birthday, so he may actually be able to be down here while we\u2019re doing these midnight speeches. Look, it is a lot to do. We\u2019re going for growth. It\u2019s all a part of our plan to get our economy back on track. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002246d3554bbfa64f599c2c1afd1b17a143\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the House take note of the report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the Budget Policy Statement 2025 and the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update 2024.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cf906a51c8ba48eaa53069777361d5c7\u0022\u003EAuckland Harbour Board and Takapuna Borough Council Empowering Act Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002241c9164310074f4d8b92ad25261e1e2d\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022963a0c5c91b948c5b96b92053187a792\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022963a0c5c91b948c5b96b92053187a792\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Auckland Harbour Board and Takapuna Borough Council Empowering Act Amendment Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b710d263a3a548628e472a237287779a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228584dabdb59d4a849a53ab757775322f\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, it is a real pleasure to rise for the second reading\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e501e3f3ef6b4e0d8fd68b84a576a8f4\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Grigg\u003C/span\u003E: Hard-working MP!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee9e66bae5744ee7a18ea77c383ec303\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014thank you very much\u2014of the Auckland Harbour Board and Takapuna Borough Council Empowering Act Amendment Bill. As you all remember\u2014because this is one of the most important bills\u2014during my first reading of this bill, I said that I was incredibly grateful, and I remain so, that the bill enjoyed the support of every party in this House. I am pleased that the Governance and Administration Committee\u2014an excellent committee; very, very able committee\u2014has recommended unanimously to pass this bill into law, and I hope that members will support it today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe bill, while small\u2014only a few pages long\u2014concerns a rather unsuspecting corner of my electorate of the North Shore. However, for my community, this bill represents an opportunity for growth, revitalisation, and a new future for a much-loved community asset\u2014the Takapuna Boating Club Bayswater clubhouse has been in a sorry state for a long time. The primary reason is that the legislation governing the site is highly restrictive and doesn\u2019t allow it to produce any revenue required to maintain itself. The building\u2019s original purpose has largely been overtaken; the boating club has newer, more fit for purpose facilities. All of these are different to the original purpose as a public bath house; that may have been common in the law when it was passed in 1923 but, of course, sadly, is a little bit rare in 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe bill before the House proposes to loosen those restrictions, allowing more use of the premises while keeping the site\u2019s core purpose for community good. The committee spent some time defining community purposes and I acknowledge, again, the committee and their work on this matter. They made a number of minor changes to clarify the meaning; the bill is about balance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ENo one in my North Shore community or in this House, I would argue, would not want to see this site being able to serve the community. In any changes to legislation, we must always consider that, and at the same time we should also be conscious of why we are here. We shouldn\u2019t allow a repeat of the past and have too tight restrictions which, while well intended back in 1923, will mean that a future MP for the North Shore will have to do this again in a few decades. The balance has been struck well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f52a92c775af47edbbb7521f1a79dbfc\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: It could still be you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac0517100e534379b57c4759532e35dd\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: It could still be me, that is true Mr Cameron, but one doesn\u2019t want to tempt fate in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EAs I said, Mr Speaker, and I know you\u2019re enjoying this, the balance has been struck well. It is not too onerous that the site cannot be used, but strict enough to ensure that the community can be assured that it will always serve the public good. The committee also considered restrictions on what revenue could be used and used for. Once again, this is about balance. The committee\u2019s changes to the bill make the original intent more transparent regarding using any revenue, and that is very sensible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EWhen the bill was first introduced last year, it became very clear that this story is hardly unique. Sadly, many communities across this House, of which we all represent, see a number of their local treasures sitting unused, and I\u2019m sure many are subject to similarly restrictive legislation that inhibits their full potential. Well, this bill gives you all hope. There is a pathway through to get those local treasures back into the community good that they should be, through a local bill, and I look forward to seeing more of these come to the House in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EGiven that, it was good for the committee to have a look at whether there were any other ways that a bespoke local bill could make this change\u2014i.e., is there a way that we can do all of these changes in one go across New Zealand. The Department of Internal Affairs has provided some advice and, ironically, that advice was one of the first things that I saw as the Minister of Local Government, having taken up that responsibility only three or so weeks ago. The committee members can speak to that process, but the committee decided a local bill was the most appropriate way to proceed at this point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI hope that this bill starts a conversation about other sites around New Zealand like it. I hope the Bayswater clubhouse will be an example of a community working together to get better use from a community asset that would otherwise go unused. This bill involved the work of the boating club, the council, local press, and parliamentarians. Similarly, work would benefit many places, and I hope it does happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ESix submissions were received and three were presented orally to the committee, including the Auckland Council and the Takapuna Boating Club. That\u2019s not unsurprising given that submitting a local bill already requires consultation before the bill can be tabled in the House. The community has had several opportunities to make their voices heard, and I also presented in person to the select committee as the member in charge of this bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297efda0357f149efa575afdab7795a77\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: That was very good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233b1d36080d147cb898ef30cc54e51fd\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Grigg\u003C/span\u003E: Hard-working MP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022688160e95a9f4634ac168ff3f6021cd9\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: And I acknowledge the members again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227911264a4caf4095ab676738bb0a050b\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Grigg\u003C/span\u003E: Re-elect Simon Watts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022762fab92e7c547fd959aaac079b63466\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: High \u201CWattage\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242b7a50051d24983865603cd6a95aacd\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I want to thank members of the Governance and Administration Committee and those who submitted on this bill. I\u2019d also like to thank, once again, all of those that have made this bill possible, especially the Takapuna Boating Club\u2019s Commodore James Jordan, also the late Ralph Roberts, and former club president Barry Ward. I\u2019d also like to acknowledge Ray Welson, who also played a significant role in this process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIt is very rare for a member to take a bill through this House, and a local bill at that, which is so closely and exclusively related to their function as a local member of Parliament. It has been a pleasure shepherding this bill on its journey so far, and of course I do hope that we will all soon be able to celebrate the passing into law of this bill. While I\u2019m taking this bill as the MP for the North Shore, this will benefit all of Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EWhat happens to the site now will be up to the boating club and our community. The last time we debated the bill, a cafe was discussed\u2014perhaps a function venue, perhaps an ice cream parlour [Interruption] The ice cream parlour seems to be very popular. Or, potentially, any other purpose, but we will see. For the first time in many years, there\u2019s hope for the future of the Bayswater clubhouse. As the local MP and a proud resident of the North Shore, I\u2019m looking forward to seeing what happens to this site.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EWith that, all that remains is for me to commend this bill to the House. I hope all members will continue to support it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00221a80460bf7fe4a00b766ea4aa1bb8e3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a80460bf7fe4a00b766ea4aa1bb8e3c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u002290be4f0c30a7411da617ad9f07420001\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290be4f0c30a7411da617ad9f07420001\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s always good when we have bills that are non-controversial and that are supported across the House. I\u2019m standing on behalf of Labour to support the Auckland Harbour Board and Takapuna Borough Council Empowering Act Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the member for North Shore, Simon Watts. He made many acknowledgments; I want to acknowledge that I have two colleagues that live on the North Shore too: Camilla Belich and Shanan Halbert. As I said, this is non-controversial. All of the detail has been traversed adequately by the previous speaker and the person who brought the local bill to the House, the Hon Simon Watts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EAfter this bill, we will be discussing a much more contentious bill, which is the criminalising wage theft bill, and we would really like to be able to move on to that quickly. With that, we support this bill and commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u00221b34b3e48afa4ec7b809787bfb462264\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b34b3e48afa4ec7b809787bfb462264\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. While we are acknowledging Takapuna connections, my dear colleague Kahurangi Carter\u2019s father was the Mayor of Takapuna for some many years and grew up in that neck of the woods. This is the bill where we stand up and support the restoration of old buildings, as is appropriate. Assisting that restoration of the Takapuna Boating Club building and the Bayswater clubhouse\u2014we certainly support that mission, we support the means to achieving that mission, and we do support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EI want to note a couple of quick fun facts, acknowledging that the club has already spent $600,000 to restore the roof and the foundations, but they need about 10 times that to do the full restoration. One of the fun facts was that this building was originally on the shore in Panmure and was dismantled and carried by the boaties around the water and reassembled. Quite an impressive history. We\u2019d be very glad to see this beautiful old building restored and we do wish the Takapuna Boating Club all the best with that effort and commend the member for bringing the bill and we commend your success in it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u00225be3ee0ed83a40a19c2a9251969c7046\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225be3ee0ed83a40a19c2a9251969c7046\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E The ACT Party will support this bill. In fact, I commend the Minister, on behalf of the ACT Party\u2014Minister Simon Watts, the MP for North Shore\u2014for proposing to legalise the sale and supply of ice creams from the Takapuna Boating Club. I\u2019m sure my colleagues in the Green Party would support that, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EOne of the things that this bill has thrown up is how many anachronistic pieces of legislation we have on the book that stop New Zealanders from transforming their lives, from becoming more productive, and from actually doing the things that their communities want them to do. It\u2019s a great pleasure to support this bill, the Auckland Harbour Board and Takapuna Borough Council Empowering Act Amendment Bill, which will allow part of the land, any buildings or improvements on it, to be used for commercial purposes. This is intended to enable the club to secure commercial income to fund restoration and maintenance of the boating club building on the site.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EI am sure, as a dinghy sailor myself and a yachtie for many years, that places like this, where people can continue to learn to sail, learn safety skills on the water, and maybe enjoy a little bit of hospitality with their friends and family afterwards, will remain a part of New Zealand\u2019s culture, and certainly a part of the Takapuna lifestyle. The ACT Party commends this bill. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0fc1c6fb21d449baf581199af5ee913\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0fc1c6fb21d449baf581199af5ee913\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E First of all, I just want to congratulate the member the Hon Simon Watts, or the Minister\u2014in both of those roles\u2014for this bill here. I rise as a member of the Governance and Administration Committee that considered this bill. It\u2019s a very, very specific bill, as we\u2019ve heard. It\u2019s specifically focused on one building on the Takapuna\u2014or Bayswater\u2014waterfront.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EWe all know that owning buildings is actually quite expensive. It\u2019s particularly expensive if you\u2019re a club, and particularly if you\u2019re a club which relies on the income that comes from members. This is an old building, it\u2019s a big building, and it\u2019s a heritage-listed building\u2014all of those\u2014and it\u2019s a waterfront building, all of which adds to the challenge of maintaining a building like this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EWhat this bill does is simply remove the 1923 prohibition\u20141923 prohibition\u2014a 102-year-old prohibition on commercial activities being operated out of that building. What that does is it allows the club to be able to get some revenue to be able to look after the building, which that building clearly needs. Also, I might say that from personal experience of running a club, it will give the opportunity of bringing more life to that area as well, so I think it\u2019s a win-win-win opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EI just want to pick up one thing that Steve Abel talked about. New Zealand First is a very, very strong supporter of heritage, and this building has a really interesting history, because it started life in about the 1880s as a tannery on the shores of the T\u0101maki River in Panmure. At the time the club had just been formed, just after World War I in 1920, it was actually\u2014that\u2019s the Takapuna Boating Club\u2014a successor to the Bayswater Boating Club, which was formed in 1914 and lasted until 1917; obviously it was discontinued during the war.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EThey set up this club in 1920. Within three years, not only did they manage to get an Act of Parliament to allow them to use the site but they also managed to acquire this tannery building from Panmure, deconstructed it\u2014all volunteers as I understand it\u2014put it on a barge, took it around the corner\u2014apparently it was a three-day journey\u2014to Bayswater, put it all back together again, and then had it operating by the summer of 1923. That is a club which had energy, enthusiasm, and creativity, and I think it sets a standard. Apparently, the building is made out of heart kauri, so it\u2019s pretty impressive as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EAs I said, it\u2019s a heritage-listed building. In its heyday, it was used for dancing, boxing, library, school events, ladies\u2019 mornings, roller skating, and of course boat storage, and it also had a sort of swimming area in front of it. It\u2019s a building which tells a lot of stories. I think the great thing about this is that not only do we help the boating club here but we help this building, this piece of heritage in Auckland, to have another life and to be able to continue in that life. Apparently, the building\u2019s got good bones, but it\u2019s clearly in poor repair externally, and so this bill will help it significantly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EI just want to finish off with a couple of questions that we considered during the Governance and Administration process. One was where the money from the commercial activity would go. The first thing is that it needs to go to the building\u2014to repairing the building, to maintaining the building, and to keeping it going for another 100 years and more, I hope. Secondly, the flexibility there is for the needs of the boating club, which doesn\u2019t just operate from this site but in fact most of its operation is on the other side of the\u00A0Takapuna isthmus, so it needs to go to the needs of the boating club and the great work that it does in the North Shore community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EFinally, there was a bit of discussion about what community purposes were, because should the boating club ever fold, it will go to the Auckland Council. Then the question will become: what community purposes could the Auckland Council use it for? To be fair, it\u2019s very, very broad\u2014and we did have some discussion about whether it should be broad or whether it should be slightly narrower.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EThis is a good day for the boating club. It\u2019s a good day for Auckland. It\u2019s a good day for this grand old lady\u2014for another hundred years and more to go. I wish the club and the community well in restoring that building, and I hope that this bill helps this building to have a very, very long life in the future. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002261f4b4558df943b9be72544c4c84ff00\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261f4b4558df943b9be72544c4c84ff00\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a five-minute split call. Are you making a call?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239bcc40cdbdf4864b012ee4231fd3508\u0022\u003ETakutai Tarsh Kemp\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262b54c7dfcf04ff9b67a78f0084d9497\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Takutai Tarsh Kemp.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022 data-id=\u00227bb7c9bbcdc84c9e91aac27af94f37e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bb7c9bbcdc84c9e91aac27af94f37e0\u0022\u003ETAKUTAI TARSH KEMP (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014T\u0101maki Makaurau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. Well, as a member of Parliament for T\u0101maki Makaurau, I rise to address the Auckland Harbour Board and Takapuna Borough Council Empowering Act Amendment Bill. Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori has consistently advocated for the principle of community before profit, and we recognise the intent of this bill to enable Takapuna Boating Club to generate revenue for the restoration and maintenance of this historic clubhouse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EThis initiative aims to preserve a community asset, ensuring its continued use for public benefit. However, during the first reading of this bill, my colleague Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke emphasised the importance of understanding the land\u2019s history and ensuring that mana whenua are actively consulted. She stated, \u201CTe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori wishes to hear from mana whenua on this matter raised in the bill, both individually and collectively, where mana whenua deem it appropriate to do so.\u201D Despite assurances from Auckland Council about upholding Te Tiriti o Waitangi principles, there has been a lack of transparency regarding consultation with mana whenua. The council has not disclosed who they have engaged with in this process. This omission raises concerns about the authenticity of the consultation and whether the voices of those with ancestral ties to this land have been generally heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori firmly believes that any decisions affecting land with historical significance to M\u0101ori must involve meaningful engagement with mana whenua. Such consultation ensures\u00A0that the development aligns with the values, traditions, and aspirations of the indigenous communities connected to this land. Therefore, while we support the preservation of community assets and acknowledge the benefits this bill seeks to provide, we issue a clear warning: if Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori is not assured that comprehensive and genuine consultation with mana whenua has not taken place, we will oppose this bill at its third reading. Our support is contingent upon respecting and upholding the rights of mana whenua in all legislation processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EWe too had discussion around the whenua around if there was any consultation. We also questioned who owned the land before 1923. What we want to see is that we want to make sure that M\u0101ori have been consulted. Kia ora. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022 data-id=\u00221b97ca52e4a3428bb2ad5f3a7b896e71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b97ca52e4a3428bb2ad5f3a7b896e71\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. It\u2019s an absolute privilege to rise today\u00A0to speak on behalf of the Takapuna Borough. My whakapapa, in fact, is that my grandfather was the Mayor of Takapuna City for 21 years. His name was Fred Thomas and he would be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022288933aec3b44f6aa8a6d860d658fdc1\u0022\u003EHon Simon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Fred Thomas Park!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba8da9cf0d374e9eb58586bd06f03407\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly. And he would be behind this bill. It is a real honour to speak about him here in the House today. He gave his life in service of the people of the North Shore, which it is called these days\u2014North Shore City, not Takapuna City. I remember stories about when he was a councillor and people would call up and say, \u201CA tree has fallen down\u201D or \u201CThere\u2019s rubbish in the waterways\u201D. He\u2019d get his nine kids packed up and go down and sort it out themselves, and I think that that\u2019s something that we can all take with us: getting our hands dirty and making sure that we\u2019re out there in community. That\u2019s what this here is all about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EWe know that we support active lifestyles, and boating is one of those amazing things that Kiwis just love to do. When you\u2019re on the North Shore, the sea is surrounding us and it\u2019s such a joy to see kids out on the water learning those navigation skills and having fun out in nature, which you know us greenies just love.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003ENow, I do want to talk about another amazing navigator from a long line of amazing chiefs, Patuone. If you just head a little bit down from Bayswater, the chief Patuone\u2014who you may have seen his picture in one of the Lindauer paintings\u2014is buried just down the road in Devonport, and I wanted to honour him in response to my colleague Takutai Kemp\u2019s k\u014Drero about the importance of honouring the mana whenua and making sure that we are living in true partnership with the mana whenua o t\u0113nei takiw\u0101, of the North Shore, and honouring Patuone, a great chief who was buried there and came from a long line of navigators. This boating club is about that next generation of navigators and making sure that they have a home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EWe stand in support of this bill today. It is a good day for navigators, for boaties, and for the North Shore. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8d84a0db27e4012a3d2a32259906604\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8d84a0db27e4012a3d2a32259906604\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and contribute to this debate today. I\u2019d like to quote a famous North Shore local, \u201CThe North Shore, what a great place to live.\u201D And it is a great day for the North Shore. I am a proud representative of the Northcote electorate, and it is a great day for everybody in the North Shore who wants to see this building restored and continue to contribute to our communities on the North Shore.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to acknowledge my friend and colleague Minister Simon Watts for shepherding this bill here. As you can see, he is also a very proud advocate for the North Shore. It\u2019s not only a great place to live, work, and play, but it\u2019s also a great place for sports. That\u2019s what brings us here today: to restore a building on the North Shore that contributes so much to our sporting communities. I\u2019d also like to pay acknowledgments to Commodore James Jordan, the Auckland Council, Caroline Williams from Stuff, and all those who have contributed to the mahi to get this bill to where we\u2019re at today, which is the second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this bill is to allow commercial activities to be used in order to help raise the funds that are necessary to restore the building to its former glory. We\u2019ve heard the rough\u00A0sums of money that will be required to do that. This bill has been through a select committee process, through the Governance and Administration Committee. It received a huge amount of submissions\u2014six! But, no, seriously, the submissions that were received were all supportive of the bill, and there were only two small changes that came out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EOne was around changing the meaning of community purposes to ensure that the building is used for true community purposes. In fact, it just inserted a new section. The second is just clarifying the restrictions on what the money can be used for, and I think members of the community want to make sure that all funds raised go into the benefit of the organisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EIt is a great day for the North Shore. Thank you to my colleagues on the Governance and Administration Committee. Let\u2019s get on with it now. It\u2019s over to the good people in the boating club to raise the funds that are needed, to get on and actually contract the work to happen. I look forward to visiting as a member of the public. I look forward to seeing the building in a very restored fashion as I drive down the highway. I commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad1e0ab8964a4a4b8560d3ec2a496c74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad1e0ab8964a4a4b8560d3ec2a496c74\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker, and thank you very much for the opportunity today to speak to this simple piece of legislation, the Auckland Harbour Board and Takapuna Borough Council Empowering Act Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EI won\u2019t take up too much time this afternoon, because I think that this is a simple change. For those of us who live on Auckland\u2019s North Shore in Te Raki Paewhenua, we\u2019re privileged and blessed to have a number of local community facilities in our area. For a number of years, I led one of our local community facilities\u2014the Birkdale Beach Haven Community Project\u2014so I understand the complexities of this piece of legislation and the restrictions that it actually places on enabling the local organisation to generate revenue in order to reinvest in the facilities and make them available for our local community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EWithout further ado, can I acknowledge the member and Minister based in the North Shore, Simon Watts, for the mahi he has done on this piece of legislation. Great work from him supporting the North Shore. It\u2019s good to see some outcomes happening for our local community. I look forward to heading over and enjoying good coffee over in Takapuna Beach. I wish the rowing club well. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022 data-id=\u00221c79e102240b420a88d26f4c10cc0579\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c79e102240b420a88d26f4c10cc0579\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, I\u2019ve been referring to this as the \u201CTakapuna ice cream bill\u201D, because that\u2019s effectively what we\u2019re doing, and it sounds very simple but there\u2019s actually a few details I\u2019d like to cover on this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f90f4df34cab4aa083cc14a1a922e52b\u0022\u003EHon Chris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: Give us the scoop!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240df443144f84427b3aeaee5c08ef95a\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I\u2019m an orange choc chip guy if you\u2019re asking, Chris Penk. What we\u2019re doing is a simple change to allow them to conduct some commercial purposes like the honourable Minister Simon Watts said. I\u2019m in favour of the ice cream option; raise a bit of money to help with the restoration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s just rewind the clock a little bit and remind ourselves how we got here. Of course, the Takapuna Boating Club goes back to the start of the last century, before this building was built. It started with a race for the grand sum of \u00A32, and the club officially formed in February 1914 after that, and the Bayswater Boating Club came to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003ENow, although the Act that we are amending here goes back to 1923\u2014to correct some of the dates that were stated earlier\u2014the land was actually acquired by the club from Auckland Council for a nominal sum in 1926, but the deed and the title was issued in 1927. There are a few confusing dates but, effectively, we\u2019re going back about 100 years; 100 years of history that we are just tweaking today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EThe issue is that currently the club can only charge minimal rental to tenants who use the building currently and, as we\u2019ve heard, it\u2019s in a bit of a state of disrepair. The money that they\u2019re getting from their tenants does not cover the upkeep for the building, hence the desire from them to have some more commercial activities conducted so that they can raise more monies for the restoration. If you\u2019ve seen the artist\u2019s impression of what the restored Bayswater Clubhouse looks like, it\u2019s quite a grand building. It looks fine; it will be a great\u2014well, it\u2019s not an addition because it\u2019s there, but it\u2019ll be a great upgrade on that little bit of the waterfront.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003ENow, I should point out that even if this bill goes through, that doesn\u2019t mean it all happens overnight. There is some work for the board of the club to do to confirm their initial discussions, particularly around establishing\u2014and I\u2019ll use their words here\u2014\u201Ca Bayswater restoration committee, or some similar title, to further explore the proposal and maybe look at a Bayswater Restoration Community Trust.\u201D Of course, they\u2019ll have to engage with council and with the local community, and I know they\u2019re eager to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EWhile we\u2019re here, I would like to acknowledge those members of the club that have been so involved. Can I acknowledge James Jordan, the previous Commodore; Ralph Roberts and Penny Roberts, both the current club patron and the former patron; Barry Ward, the club president; Ray Welson, a former board member; but in particular can I acknowledge Wendy Baker, the club commodore, well done to you, ma\u2019am; and to Darren Moore, the vice commodore. They have advocated strongly for their community, well supported by their local MP and the Minister who is seeing this bill through, the Hon Simon Watts. He, of course, was eager to be the very first to come and present to the Governance and Administration Committee, which he did in great form.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve also had other Auckland local MPs, Cam Brewer, in particular\u2014I just want to acknowledge Dan Bidois\u2014very vocal. I mean, they\u2019re always jumping up in caucus meetings to advocate for the issues that matter in Auckland but they\u2019ve been very keen to see this bill go through. I want to acknowledge the work that they did in support of this, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard also, in the select committee, from members of the public. I want to particularly acknowledge Anna Muir, Claire Bodle, David Hopkins, and Gus Stewart, who all took the time to take part in their democracy and their Parliament and to submit to the Governance and Administration Committee on this bill, alongside the Takapuna Boating Club, and Auckland Council, and of course Minister Watts as well. I would like to just refer to some of the submissions we heard because I think it\u2019s important to give this a community voice. I\u2019m quoting here from Claire Bodle: \u201CWhat was once a beautiful building [an] asset to the community has not been adequately maintained and is now more of an eyesore.\u201D This bill, she says, gives the opportunity to upgrade, to give the maintenance that it needs, again, as she says, for the community to again benefit from this space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EIf I can also just quote Gus Stewart, who wrote to the select committee as a member of the local Bayswater community to fully support and applaud this bill, he gave a small suggestion of an improvement\u2014section\u00A05(3)(b)\u2014to make it clear that money used under the lease can be used for improvements to the building and the land, not just the maintenance of them. That is something that we considered and have made some small adjustments to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019ve heard already, one of the big discussions was around the use of the term \u201Ccommunity purposes\u201D. When we look at the bill, it says when they receive money now for\u00A0the commercial purposes, it can be used for maintenance of the land, maintenance of buildings on the land, and community purposes. There was a lot of discussion about community purposes and whether it was too broad. There was an argument from some that maybe this is a little too broad. I don\u2019t take that argument. I think we actually need to be a nation\u2014a Government\u2014that gives clear intent, that gives the scope and then trusts good people to do good things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb174c5efbf741eb9a2ecd8b7a275dfc\u0022\u003EHon Chris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: Ice cream shops.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022722e0d7b7db4425bb2a056620892e424\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s more than just an ice cream shop, Chris Penk, and another strong advocate for Auckland, we have there. I don\u2019t see a situation where this money ends up getting used to improve roads down in Papakura. This is clearly about the community first and foremost restoring this once glorious building and ensuring there\u2019s something for all the community to enjoy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EWe have to trust them that if we get to the point\u2014and I hope we do\u2014that there is money left over, that they are empowered and trusted to make good decisions for this. I refer to the policy intent from the boating club themselves, and I\u2019ll quote that. They said they \u201Cwant to ensure that the proceeds of any lease or commercial arrangement are used towards the upkeep and maintenance of the land and buildings on it\u201D\u2014as we just heard, and that\u2019s a good thing\u2014\u201Cand for any surplus proceeds to be able to be used towards the club\u2019s broader community-based activities.\u201D This includes, and they give some examples, things like using funds towards community water sports programmes for local children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003ENow, why wouldn\u2019t we want to trust good local people, good salt of the earth Kiwis to go out there and do great things for their community? Maybe it\u2019s a water safety programme; maybe it\u2019s getting young kids who wouldn\u2019t have the opportunity otherwise into water sports. I just was at the rural games with Tim van de Molen and Erica on Friday, alongside one of our great Olympic medallists from Paris. What an inspiration to young Kiwis and the Kiwi kids that we were hanging out with that day, and why wouldn\u2019t we want to encourage more people into it? If we get to the point that there is excess money left over, I think that\u2019s a great way to use these funds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s very clear that, in the hypothetical situation which Mr Foster covered before, where the property was to change hands back to Auckland Council, this would then be covered by the Local Government Act 2002, and it has a statutory role and purpose that would restrict the spending to be wholly used or principally for the benefit of its district. It can\u2019t go outside the scope of that. There are suitable safeguards and protections in place, and I think it makes a lot of sense that actually we leave this broad enough that the boating club and the local community can get on with doing what they do well and, first of all, fix the building and, second of all, go on and support their community and do some great stuff in it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EFinally, can I just take a moment to acknowledge the fact that as a local bill, there has been some discussion\u2014we heard it referred to just before\u2014about the fact that this is an Act of Parliament, effectively, to allow Takapuna Boating Club to sell an ice cream to kids on a hot day. Now, that sounds comical, and we all have a joke about our favourite flavour of ice cream, and that\u2019s OK, but it does seem crazy that we use up Parliament\u2019s time to do such a thing. One of the questions we asked in select committee was: is there another way that this bill could be done so that it didn\u2019t in the future have to come back through Parliament? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EI think of the McLean Trust Institute (Trust Variation) Bill\u2014one of my favourites. In that bill, we were able to add a provision so that this would no longer have to be an Act of Parliament to change it. Maybe in the future there will be some situation which we can\u2019t foresee now, which will necessitate another Act of Parliament to change it, to go from ice creams to hot dogs; I\u2019m not sure. There might be some other purpose that we haven\u2019t been able to foresee, so we asked the question: is there a way that we could rewrite this bill, that we could tweak it, that we could change it, that we could improve it so that we wouldn\u2019t have to keep coming back to Parliament if another change was required in the future?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EWe did try and we did press officials over this, but, ultimately, I\u2019m satisfied with the answer we were given, which was that for us to do that would take more work and be more involved than what it might take in the unlikely event that there has to be another change in the future; that actually, by doing things like leaving \u201Ccommunity purposes\u201D pretty broad, we\u2019re reducing the chance that we\u2019d have to come back in the future, even if the land was to change hands, even if something dramatic was to happen to the boating club. I think this has been well considered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003ESo, with that in mind, with ensuring we\u2019ve stuck to the boating club\u2019s policy intent and the great submissions, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00221d23d28474fe45609b467b68f008f762\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d23d28474fe45609b467b68f008f762\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: A five-minute split call\u2014Camilla Belich. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u0022a20b27ebf6b24d399daa7b2c5b8c6f59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a20b27ebf6b24d399daa7b2c5b8c6f59\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I can assure the House I won\u2019t be using the full five minutes, because this is a very simple bill. I was lucky enough to speak at the first reading on this bill and I set out at length the reasons why I continue to support this bill. I\u2019m now lucky enough to be the chair of the Governance and Administration Committee, so unfortunately I wasn\u2019t able to participate in the discussion on this, but I\u2019m well aware of the issues surrounding local bills. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI wanted to acknowledge, in closing, the North Shore Ward councillors Chris Darby and Richard Hills, who put the motion to Auckland Council in order to support this piece of legislation coming through. I want to acknowledge those two hard-working local councillors and commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022 data-id=\u00224a66f8709b984f0191fefac685fd507c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a66f8709b984f0191fefac685fd507c\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Hey, I\u2019m very pleased to take my first call on this bill, the Auckland Harbour Board and Takapuna Borough Council Empowering Act Amendment Bill. I didn\u2019t have the opportunity to speak on the first reading, but I\u2019m very happy to be here for the second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EFrom looking at this and from what I\u2019ve heard from around the House, this is a very pragmatic bill. It\u2019s got a sensible approach to deal with an anomaly, and I just happened to search the premises on my phone\u2014I have not actually seen it physically myself\u2014and when I did search it, the headline that came up straight away was \u201CMillion-dollar dumps\u201D. That says to me that they\u2019ve troubles here with the building that\u2019s been sitting there for years and years and years, not being able to earn the revenue to be able to do the necessary work that\u2019s needed to maintain it. Looking at the pictures, though, it does look like a very grand building\u2014a huge building, in fact. I can\u2019t quite see how an ice cream parlour can fill the whole building, but maybe it is actually part of the building.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EMaybe I can also acknowledge Fred Thomas, our member across the way there, the former mayor of this place here. It\u2019s great to hear some of the history that comes from some of these places where these local bills come from itself. The Hon Simon Watts, the person that\u2019s actually sponsored or brought this bill to the House and taken it through\u2014it\u2019s great to hear from him at the beginning of this particular reading itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EAs previous members have said, this is a bill of common sense. It\u2019s a bill that fixes a situation where, dare I say, there must be many buildings around New Zealand that have similar situations. I wouldn\u2019t be surprised if we don\u2019t see more of these types of local bills before us before the end of this term to fix these particular areas that the community wants\u2014it\u2019s strongly supported by the community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the Governance and Administration Committee that did its work there, ably led by Rachel Boyack, who is the chair of the committee that actually dealt with the particular bill. With that, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8a3201ee9bd4ea497a5799adba17381\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8a3201ee9bd4ea497a5799adba17381\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I just found out that my friend in the Green Party had a relative who was the Mayor of Takapuna. In fact, my great grandfather was the Mayor of Takapuna too. When I drive down to this\u2014actually, his name was Jack Guiniven, and he was for 21 years the mayor\u2014there is a street on the way to this Bayswater place. I know that that history is really important to me and I know it is to other people. This bill will make sure that that history continues. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u00225b39e48b4aa143408cb70719938b349d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b39e48b4aa143408cb70719938b349d\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E As a North Shore MP\u2014part North Shore MP, part West Auckland\u2014I would just remind Dan Bidois, that I would probably like some of the Upper Harbour territory, but for the time being, Greenhithe Bay, Bayview, Unsworth Heights, T\u014Dtara Vale, Wairau Valley, and parts of Glenfield belong to Upper Harbour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc33cde707984c529af782b1f21d565c\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: For now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223da92750c3b549a9b4b6646cbda57683\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: For now. But despite the campaigning already under way, it\u2019s great to be able to acknowledge my good friend Dan Bidois, MP for Northcote, across the way here, and of course the sponsor of this local bill, the Hon Simon Watts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EI spent some time with the Hon Simon Watts last week. I turned up to the Milford Bowling Club to an attendance of 80 locals, and I thought, \u201CWow, this is the biggest crowd I\u2019ve ever attracted.\u201D I thought, \u201CI\u2019ve got to text mum about this.\u201D \u201CLook at all these cars, all these little Morris Minors and Suzuki Swifts out the front\u201D\u2014I was thinking, \u201CThis is good; a good, youthful crowd!\u201D Then I realised that they weren\u2019t there for me; the invitation actually had Nancy Lu on it. My office in the electorate of Upper Harbour, in Hobsonville, is now sending out: \u201CBusiness After Five in Hobsonville with the Hon Chris Penk, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing. Hosted by Nancy Lu.\u201D\u2014and \u201CCameron Brewer will also be in attendance\u201D is in small print. That is the power of Nancy Lu on the North Shore!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EI want to again acknowledge Simon Watts for his shepherding and the work that he\u2019s done through the Governance and Administration Committee. I also want to acknowledge all those officials at Auckland Council that Zoomed in at different times\u2014they, effectively, wrote the amendments that are needed to enable some commercial activity here. There\u2019s a lot of talk about orange chocolate chip ice cream, but this is beyond our realm, because this would be more to do with the district licensing authority and the local boards\u2019 policies on alcohol. I kind of see, Mr Costley, dare I say, maybe not just an orange chocolate chip ice cream, but maybe\u2014maybe\u2014it could be a place where one can share a very, very, very low alcohol drink over a very nice meal, looking over the fabulous Waitemat\u0101 Harbour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EFor those that are just tuning in on Parliament TV and on Truth Radio, when you go over the Auckland Harbour Bridge\u2014the one that the Labour Party were going to spend $56\u00A0billion replacing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208a730cf52b74ae493564233aa9075ac\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: They did spend it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e21ecf1a9a944279843f5ed185170996\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: They spent probably that much just looking at it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cd1fff3536c4ddead9004e436c32da3\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: How\u2019s your plan going?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a443c188a9243d097cb129d10a462e0\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: Anyway, over the Harbour Bridge\u2014Shanan Halbert, just to take you back\u2014and once you land on the North Shore, you peer out at the borough of Birkenhead, the home of Dan Bidois. You look over to the right there, and it\u2019s that big two- or three-storey kauri weatherboard boathouse that\u2019s under the auspices of the Takapuna Boating Club in Bayswater. Of course, it sits on Sir Peter Blake Parade. That, of course, is named Sir Peter Blake Parade because that\u2019s where the late, great Sir Peter Blake grew up with his family and his parents. You can see that Bayswater Marina is going to be a fabulous setting, and I want to commend those members of the Takapuna Boating Club that have put their shoulders into the grind here to back this restoration project.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EIt will be a major restoration project. Steve Abel from the Green Party said much money has already been spent on roof replacement and foundations. It\u2019s a multimillion-dollar refurbishment, and this enables that commercial element in the club, while protecting, as Dan Bidois has eloquently articulated, that as a primarily community facility, a not-for-profit facility, in perpetuity for the good people of the North Shore and those that they let across the bridge. And I understand they don\u2019t let everyone across the bridge. Sometimes when I\u2019m coming across the Greenhithe Bridge from West Auckland, I have to kind of be issued with a visa as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EI just want to again, for those that have tuned in, just reflect, in my closing remarks, on what this actually means and where this has come from, for those that are trying to make sense of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a2f03e81cf84492a564b097e93cd423\u0022\u003EHon Chris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: Including you!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bd07cfdef544fe4845ce8e2760f53ee\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: Including some of my colleagues, says the Hon Chris Penk\u2014see my hearing\u2019s better\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b375ecb658444ac1873739abe7456e8c\u0022\u003EHon Chris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: I said \u201Cyou\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265e6f5e19f5a474ba85404b4f1bb66ca\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: The post\u2014oh, he said I\u2019m trying to make sense of it too. Look, we can cite some amendments in the legislation if you want. See, once a lawyer, always a lawyer!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EA quirk of archaic legislation means MPs will decide whether to increase the supply of caffeine on Auckland\u2019s North Shore. The Takapuna Boating Club has long held ambitions to rent out part of its clubrooms, at the end of the peninsula in Bayswater, to a cafe\u2014don\u2019t know if it\u2019s licensed or not; we won\u2019t interfere with that. However, a law from the 1920s\u2014and we\u2019ve got members across the House on the back row of the Opposition who were there, who debated the third reading back then\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b3cf9649e074058a6940e802da156a2\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I hope you\u2019re not forgetting where the current Speaker sits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022daf16d786f21477a9735e719b67366b3\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I was pointing over vaguely to Willie Jackson and Damien O\u2019Connor\u2014where they normally sit; just in that area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EAnyway, a law from the 1920s\u2014that some were privy to\u2014specifically states that the land and building may only be used, and only be used, for the purpose of swimming, boating, and any similar community purpose. We\u2019ve been talking about dances and the likes of that, and I know\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221a83f5549f24649832dcd2aeb03ba76\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: Ice cream.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243dba696904444da89d0e122ed1cf391\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: Ice cream\u2014there\u2019s a lot of talk about ice cream. When that little boy grows up, you\u2019re going to get even more talk about ice cream, Dan Bidois. It\u2019s going to ruin your carpet, and your car as well, Dan, and your car. That car is history. That\u2019ll take more refurbishment than the Bayswater Boating Club, I can tell you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EAnyway, the Bayswater Boating Club is not allowed\u2014Mr Speaker, this is as I close, and I suspect the Hon Chris Penk will ask for an extension of time. The Bayswater Boating Club is not allowed to be used, as has been well canvassed, for commercial gain due to an Act that was passed a hundred years ago. Once the hub of the community, it now stands battered. The land where the heritage building\u2014and Andy Foster took us through its heritage status\u2014was gifted through an Act of Parliament in 1923.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EThere are very few places on the Waitemat\u0101 Harbour where you can actually sit across and look directly on the water. It will be a competitor to the marine centre in Catalina Bay, in Hobsonville Point, which is under construction and will be a fabulous facility for the good people of Upper Harbour\u2014the marine centre at Hobsonville Point with the jetty that\u2019s being constructed. So this will be a great amenity not just for the good of the North Shore\u2014they may think it\u2019s just for the people of the North Shore. No! This is going to drag people from all around the place. Everyone must go. Isn\u2019t it fantastic, the Hon Louise Upston? Check the Hansard, the numbers\u2014the numbers\u2014of how many businesses are on board with the \u201CEveryone Must Go\u201D campaign. And I\u2019ll tell you what, they\u2019ll be going to the Bayswater boathouse for a cup of coffee, a chocolate chip ice cream, or dare I say an alcohol-free Heineken zero.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EFor the North Shore, this is a proud moment. I want to acknowledge some of my old mates on the North Shore, like former Mayor of North Shore City George Wood, the honourable George Wood. I also want to acknowledge Ann Hartley, a late colleague of many of ours who passed away recently, who was also a mayor of the North Shore\u2014North Shore City in those early days\u2014and then of course she was on the inaugural council. We acknowledge Ann and all the advocacy that she\u2019s done. And we acknowledge all those that have enjoyed the Bayswater clubhouse over many, many years. A good friend of mine Jan Franklin, and her husband Steven\u2014Jan was recalling the dances they used to go to in the 1950s at the Bayswater clubhouse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EIt is a great honour to be asked\u2014in fact, a lot of my colleagues demanded I speak on this. Demanded! Hence we\u2019ve got a full House tonight\u2014Parliament TV always ruins my speeches because they pan out and no one\u2019s there. But I commend the second reading of this local bill. I congratulate all those that are involved in this massive restoration project. It\u2019s a great project for Auckland. It\u2019s a great day for New Zealand. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EName changed to Auckland Harbour Board and Takapuna Borough Council Empowering Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00229f43a2161809443586b3ec1e5f7c5b53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f43a2161809443586b3ec1e5f7c5b53\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is set down for committee stage next sitting day\u2014and Mr Penk comes closer to his vanilla ice cream.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ffebb5295c2f42d8886e0994fb8961db\u0022\u003ECrimes (Theft by Employer) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ec993e73ab904d41bc4d461518c06829\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u00227f14df7f32c143b1a05aad6d8d9cb848\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f14df7f32c143b1a05aad6d8d9cb848\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Crimes (Theft by Employer) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s an honour to be standing here and to be able to bring the third reading of this bill to the House. I think it\u2019s fair to say that it\u2019s possible many of us thought we would not get there, in terms of this bill being introduced in the last Parliament and now with the change of Government. I couldn\u2019t be happier to be here, being able to shepherd this bill through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EFirst of all, I just wanted to acknowledge a personal thing, which is that it\u2019s my father\u2019s 70th birthday today. Happy birthday, Dad. He\u2019s been a lifelong champion for justice in the workplace, so I think, hopefully, he\u2019ll be very happy to see that, although I won\u2019t be able to spend much time with him today, I\u2019ll be in the House bringing this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThis bill criminalises intentional theft by employers to their workers. Why? Why is this bill needed? This bill is needed because of the injustice that many workers face in New Zealand to this day. It was brought to this House by a very, very good man, a very close friend of mine, a former MP of this House, who, I believe, is watching tonight, who came to New Zealand as a refugee. He experienced injustice in the form of wage theft. He then became a member of Parliament and brought this bill to the House to stop any other workers suffering what he did. I think, really, that is a story of New Zealand and also of this party. I can\u2019t see whether he is here, but, hopefully, he\u2019s watching today. Ibrahim, this bill is really for you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI read, when I was preparing for this debate, his first reading speech. It\u2019s really a fantastic speech, so I do really encourage anyone to read that speech, rather than listen to my speech tonight. I thought it would be pertinent to read an extract of that, because it really summarises why this bill was so important to him and how important it is for so many workers in New Zealand, especially migrant workers. This is what he said:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u201CNot long after arriving in New Zealand, I got my first work in the Wairarapa. It was farm work, with my employer shuttling me from Lower Hutt to Martinborough each day for work. At the end of my first week of work, I was told by a contractor that I had done a poor job that was not worth the cost of shuttling me to and from work, and that I did not deserve any pay. I was told that if I had any decency, I should be paying back the employer his costs for the week as the work that I\u2019d done had amounted to nothing. I was told that I would not be paid and that if I did not like it, then I should piss off.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EHe said, \u201CNot knowing what my rights were, I just walked away from my payment for my week\u2019s work, but as I became involved more with migrant workers, I found out that my experience was not the exception.\u201D And, unfortunately, this experience is not an exception in New Zealand, and it regularly happens in New Zealand. Unfortunately, some businesses deliberately rely on regularly underpaying their employees and have it baked into their business model. This bill imposes serious criminal sanctions in order to stop this practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003ENow, we know that most employers are good employers. In fact, almost all employers are good employers. This bill really applies to the businesses who are not acting within the law. It doesn\u2019t impose any additional sanctions on employers. Essentially, it allows good employers to continue doing what they\u2019re doing without fear of anything happening to them. It doesn\u2019t, unlike many other employment-related laws that come to this House, impose any other conditions or work or bureaucracy or anything on employers. It just asks them to pay employees what they\u2019re owed, to pay them their fair wages, to make sure that, when they contribute their labour, they are fairly recognised for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003ETaking this bill through the House, I\u2019ve regularly been asked by people if we have a lot of evidence around wage theft, and I just wanted to cite a few of these different examples to really show how this is a problem in New Zealand and how I hope this bill will be able to address it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EIn 2019, there was a report by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment that found that wage theft was one of the most common forms of migrant labour exploitation in New Zealand\u2014the most common forms. We\u2019ve seen examples, as this bill has gone through the House, of migrant workers working as cleaners being underpaid by $17,000; workers who worked over 900 hours being paid only for a small\u00A0percentage\u2014being paid for only 32\u00A0hours. We\u2019ve seen people who\u2019ve been paid an equivalent of only $7 an hour for their work at bottle shops. We\u2019ve seen cafe staff, hospitality workers, and construction workers, unfortunately, deliberately underpaid by employers who are taking advantage of the fact they\u00A0could.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThis has to stop in New Zealand. These are all New Zealand workers who deserve respect. I was very honoured once my colleague Ibrahim Omer brought this bill to the House in April 2023 to then see this bill come through the Education and Workforce Committee. We had, I think, 84\u00A0percent support of submitters at select committee\u2014so quite significant support from the people who were able to submit on this bill. I was very, very pleased then to see it reported back to the House. I think, really, the circuit breaker for this bill not going in the dustbin of good ideas was the fact that we were able to obtain support from parties across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EWe were very privileged to have the support of the Green Party and of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori throughout the readings on this bill. And then, after select committee, we were very, very pleased to get the support of New Zealand First to allow this bill to go through the House. I want to really thank the members of New Zealand First for looking to their values and seeing that many of the values that we have we share\u2014especially when it comes to standing up for vulnerable workers, for making sure that there isn\u2019t exploitation in workplaces, and for fairness. I wanted to thank especially the Hon Mark Patterson and the Hon Casey Costello for their work on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003ETheir work did lead to an amendment to this bill, which I think has actually made this bill stronger. This bill now very clearly applies to employers who deliberately steal without reasonable excuse from their employer. That, I think, is the original intention of the bill and really has clarified the purpose of this bill. It\u2019s really clear, and if you look at the draft that we\u2019ve got here today, I think we\u2019ve improved on that bill since the select committee as well. I really want to thank New Zealand First, and, of course, Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori and the Greens, who have supported us throughout the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThis bill is not an unusual bill, either, in terms of international comparisons. We know that in Australia many states have had wage theft laws, and since 1 January 2025 Australia has outlawed wage theft under its fair-work conditions. We also know that Norway has laws against wage theft, and also California has laws against wage theft. Really, this bill brings New Zealand into line with world leaders in standing up for injustice at work and provides a real avenue for those who have faced terrible injustice with what little they have. We have to remember that, for many people, especially people who come to New Zealand, the only thing they have\u2014the only thing they can use\u2014is to sell their labour in order to make money. If the value of that is taken away on purpose by someone who professes to be an employer, those people should be held to account for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI just want to reflect on why many of us come to this House. I think we come here to stand up for justice, to hold people to account, and to protect the vulnerable, and I think this bill does all of those things. I want to again acknowledge my colleague Ibrahim Omer for bringing this bill to the House. This has been a collective effort, my friend. We wouldn\u2019t have been able to do it without you having the bravery to bring this bill to the House\u2014and, indeed, many members of the labour movement who were able to raise this as an issue and to assist. I especially want to acknowledge, as you did in the first reading, John Ryall and Peter Cranney for their assistance with this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI very much hope that we can pass this bill tonight and that this bill will become law and it can be something where members across the House can be proud of their Parliament for standing up for the dignity of work, for justice, for fairness, and for working New Zealanders. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022557ba984ce5f4108a08cf9447c5ee7c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022557ba984ce5f4108a08cf9447c5ee7c0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The time has come for me to leave the Chair. The House will resume at 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5a4e04e367b47ce8809da782f248da9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5a4e04e367b47ce8809da782f248da9\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House is resumed. Members, when we left the House prior to the dinner break, we were on the third reading of the Crimes (Theft by Employer) Amendment Bill. We were up to call No. 2, and it\u2019s a National Party call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022 data-id=\u0022fae344021fb24733b771099d63b280ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fae344021fb24733b771099d63b280ad\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Look, tonight we are speaking on the third reading of the Crimes (Theft by Employer) Amendment Bill. I wasn\u2019t actually fortunate enough to speak on the second reading, and so\u00A0I feel like it\u2019s my opportunity to make my fulsome comment on the bill in the third reading, which is absolutely A-OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003EI am the chair of the select committee that heard this bill, the Education and Workforce Committee. We went through a very rigorous process, as we always do when we go through members\u2019 bills, and I think there\u2019s a few points that I would quite like to make. Look, I understand that it\u2019s likely that this bill will go through its third reading, as it passed the second reading, and so I am just acknowledging the nuances and reinforcing the very reasons that in the second reading, we did not support this bill, for the reasons that I will outline.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003EOne of those, of course, is the impact that it makes on the criminal justice system. Of course, to acknowledge the points that we\u2019ve already made and continue to make, there is already an Employment Relations Act that covers any dispute between an employee and an employer. The process exists, the civil court action exists, and making it a criminal offence\u2014obviously, adding penalties, adding criminal repercussions to employers\u2014not only clogs up the justice system, as we have made clear, but also takes down a different path something that has otherwise had a path for resolution between the employer and the employee. Look, not to say that it\u2019s a slippery slope, but if we do this for everything that we have currently civil action for, making things criminal, including increasing penalties, what then do we have left in the Employment Relations Act and in the civil courts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003EOne thing I will just do, going through the points, is just acknowledge, obviously, of course, as has Camilla Belich, the member currently shepherding this through the House on behalf of Ibrahim Omer, and just commend his involvement in the process. Of course, he came to select committee and was acknowledged through that process and his participation, and we did hear some stories from people that have had a very challenging time. I think it\u2019s important that we acknowledge those people. Obviously, whether it\u2019s migrant exploitation, whether it\u2019s worker exploitation, you know, those are things that we absolutely don\u2019t want to see. The point that we make, and the point that was well made by Business New Zealand, is that what this does is further divide the employer and the employee and the relationship that they have in the workplace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f65e02ac42a4a8ebd10397e2a7fb570\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Only if they steal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef722240071441f08e7adebb2dbe08f1\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON\u003C/span\u003E: I think the point to make\u2014and the point that the Opposition are trying to make quite loudly is \u201COnly if they steal.\u201D Well, actually, the first person that has to take this as a criminal offence to the police is the employee. This is not to say that in every single case what they take to the police is valid. Members opposite have mentioned this in the first reading, the second reading, that every case that is taken to the police is not always going to be grounded. What we are doing is adding another criminal offence to the justice system, further clogging up an already very lagged justice system, a criminal system that\u2019s having to deal with retail crime, gang crime, violent crime, additionally now adding a further crime to the Crimes Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003EThe point that we\u2019re making here is that in every case where an employee has been hard done by, by their employer, or perceives that they\u2019ve been hard done by, by their employer\u2014whether it\u2019s $2, $20, or $200\u2014they have to take that to the police. They have to have the police investigate the process, and they then go through the criminal justice system, if it is in this case\u2014if the amendment has been added\u2014an intent to be dishonest. Look, that\u2019s something that we debated heavily through the select committee process, and as we mention in our report\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9ff3f1f18e74a719592b9f9564313c1\u0022\u003ERachel Boyack\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CTough on crime.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e1bca60266148b3aeadd6b854b5ce62\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that, of course\u2014actually, Jo, I\u2019m going to come back to that point. Members opposite said, \u201CTough on crime.\u201D\u2014absolutely. Do you know what I\u2019d rather our police be dealing with? I\u2019d rather our police be dealing with people crashing cars into a dairy, people robbing someone\u2019s house, and people wearing gang patches in public and intimidating members of the community. I would rather the police be dealing with someone being stalked. I would rather the police be dealing with just about anything other than a dispute between an employee and an employer that can be dealt with through the civil court. This is the point that we are making. We are absolutely tough on crime, and now all we are doing is adding an additional crime for police to get involved in when there\u2019s a dispute process already in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003EThe next thing is that the Opposition are going to be introducing crimes for dealing with tenancy disagreements\u2014I bet we\u2019ll see that coming. Unfortunately, they\u2019re probably already going to go there. They\u2019ve probably got it drafted up ready to go, but the point that we are making is, at the end of the day, this is not\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c5f2bc71a144a8fbe52f4d4c1471120\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Interjections are fine, but this is becoming a barrage from both\u00A0sides.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228665aab6c97b47e68452e38bf0144cdd\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. This is not the point that is trying to be addressed. As we have always said, every time we work for the worker and we work for the business, we want to make that relationship closer, not for somebody to feel that they have to take that to the police to have a dispute resolved. This is the point that we have argued from the beginning and what we heard very loudly from Business New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003ENow, I just want to identify that, obviously, in the select committee process, we hear from all sorts of people. Of course we heard from the unions. We heard from individuals that have been impacted, that have had terrible stories from their workplace relationships, and that\u2019s something that\u2019s really important for us to acknowledge, but Business New Zealand, in this very case, has represented a lot of businesses\u2014businesses who haven\u2019t come and spoken in their own case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003ETo acknowledge that the member Camilla Belich did say, almost every business and almost every employer is a good employer, but, in so many cases, it is inevitably going to happen that police are going to be entering a workplace, pressing charges against someone or investigating someone for what has been perceived to have been done to an employee. That is absolutely without a doubt going to have an impact on their reputation as an employer in the first place, whether or not this ends up being something that gets pursued or ends up going to court, or, even if it goes to court, whether or not they end up winning the dispute. It\u2019s really important for us to identify those repercussions, and Business New Zealand made that very, very clear. That\u2019s something that we can\u2019t ignore and we didn\u2019t ignore on the Government side of the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003ELook, I think it\u2019s really important to make sure that, in every single case, we are thinking of the perverse outcome, because we are absolutely and by no means putting to the side the experience of the worker; we made that very clear, and we heard some very telling stories from people. I am absolutely acknowledging the intent that the former member and now the current member have with this bill and what they intended to bring to the House, but the point that we continue to make is that the additional pressure on the criminal justice system for something that has a pathway for its dispute to be resolved through the civil courts, through the Employment Relations Act, now to have further penalties and, actually, for some employers to face a year in prison\u2014if people didn\u2019t read that in the documents, make sure that it\u2019s very, very clear. This could be over a couple of hundred dollars\u2014that someone has the right now to take this to the police, that that employer could then face lifelong reputational damage, the inability to ever operate a business again, and face up to a year in prison.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not to say that there might be people out there that do something that deserves a course of action\u2014absolutely, but to say that now people have to go through this process, to be investigated, to be part of the criminal justice system, the impact that that places on them and their reputation and the feeling that that has in the workplace for others, that is something that absolutely has a pathway to be solved and resolved through the current system. We feel that that is a slippery slope towards having a criminal approach to just about everything that we have civil action for. We\u2019ve made it very clear in our select committee report, and I\u2019m sure you\u2019ll hear from my colleagues throughout this evening our position on this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003EAt the end of the day, to make something that has a current pathway through the Employment Relations Act a criminal offence is adding an extra layer of bureaucracy to a process, and it is taking away from our police and from our criminal court system, from the very real crimes that this Government, who is absolutely tough on crime\u2014to be focusing on something that has already got a resolution process. With that, we do not commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6e4d83cb8664143bf8e8323ce4addc2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6e4d83cb8664143bf8e8323ce4addc2\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Now, what I omitted to say before the last speech was that the question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022997e11c2becf4c1e886dbdc0a75f62dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022997e11c2becf4c1e886dbdc0a75f62dc\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I absolutely agree the question should be agreed to, Madam Speaker. We\u2019re hearing tonight about people being soft on crime or tough on crime, but that side of the House is very selective on the crimes that they want to prosecute. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EI do acknowledge that Katie Nimon is a good chair of the Education and Workforce Committee, but I cannot agree with what she has said just before, in that speech, and I had hoped that the National Party would be supporting this bill. We expect the National Party to sort of hug the middle, but, unfortunately, they seem to be incredibly distracted and incredibly attached to the ACT Party mantra. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s disappointing, and we expect this from the ACT Party\u2014you know, they\u2019re the big business on hyper-capitalism. We know that they will do anything to burn down workers\u2019 rights. That\u2019s what they\u2019re about, and we expect that. We also sometimes have hope for the National Party that, actually, they\u2019ll see the light and try to hug the middle, but, unfortunately, that is not the case. They are still, unfortunately, subservient vassals to the ACT Party. I was hopeful, actually, that the smell of burnt plastic in school lunches might have convinced them to support this bill, but, unfortunately, that does not seem to be the case. Fortunately, there is a Government party that does sound like they have unshackled themselves from the neo-liberal freight train of capitalism and will be supporting this bill, hopefully, at the end of this as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EI do want to acknowledge Ibrahim Omer, who brought this bill to the House in its first reading. I acknowledge his presence here today, as well. What a momentous occasion for him to be back in the House to see this bill, hopefully, be passed into law, and I feel that it will happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EIt is important, and people have spoken about it before\u2014because I spent a bit of time tonight reading his first reading speech, where he talked about his actual experience of having his wages stolen from him. In the case that he talked about of himself, he was working on a farm in the Wairarapa, and then his employer told him that they didn\u2019t like his work and just took his pay. As the previous speakers from the Labour Party have said\u2014and I do want to acknowledge Camilla Belich\u2019s expert shepherding of this bill through the House. They noted that there was a 2019 Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment report that said that there was such a significant impact on migrant workers, and that significant impact was wage theft\u2014wage theft.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThis bill is incredibly simple. It is incredibly simple. If you nick something, you get pinged for it\u2014if you nick something, you get pinged for it. If you\u2019re an employee and you put your fingers in the till, you\u2019re going to get pinged for it, and that\u2019s what\u2019s there at the moment, but if you\u2019re an employer and you put your fingers into your employee\u2019s pocket to take their money, you don\u2019t get pinged for it. We hear from that side of the House\u2014well, that particular corner of the House\u2014that there is a pathway for workers to take and that it\u2019s a civil action pathway. For those of us who know, who come from families who are migrant families where mum and dad don\u2019t speak such good English\u2014they\u2019re just recent immigrants here\u2014how are they able to access that pathway? How are they supposed to at least not only access that pathway but afford that pathway? It is outrageous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why it\u2019s so important that this House turns its mind to supporting this bill through the House and to supporting and upholding workers\u2019 rights\u2014because it is a basic right. It is a decent right. If you do a hard day\u2019s work, you should get a fair day\u2019s pay. If you do a hard day\u2019s work, you should get a fair day\u2019s pay, and people shouldn\u2019t be allowed to hold back your wages. That is what is at the centre of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t want to prolong this k\u014Drero, because we want to get to this bill being assented to here in the House, but I was thinking of a whakatauk\u012B, and it goes \u201CKo te amorangi ki mua, ko te h\u0101pai \u014D ki muri\u2014ko te amorangi ki mua, ko te h\u0101pai \u014D ki muri\u201D. What that means is if you\u2019ve got things sorted out the front and you\u2019ve got things sorted at the back, that\u2019s when things are harmonious. When you\u2019re on the marae and people are doing things well in the kitchens and your workers are doing well in the kitchens, that enables people in the front to do their bit well at the front as well, and what that points to is good relationships. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EWe need good relationships in the workplace, and I acknowledge that for many, if not most, employers, they won\u2019t be having their fingers in their employee\u2019s back pocket, but it points to the importance of making sure that we have those good relationships. For those employers that are stealing and that are thieving from their employees, this bill goes some way to addressing that. On that, the Greens support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022 data-id=\u002295cc100cb509434aa52ddf8a883ebca0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295cc100cb509434aa52ddf8a883ebca0\u0022\u003ELAURA McCLURE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I love doing some speeches after the Green Party. Firstly, what I would like to say is ACT is not anti-worker; in fact, we are extremely pro-worker. I understand the intent of this bill and I want to, firstly, acknowledge the previous member Camilla Belich for bringing this bill forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EI think everybody in this House can agree that, if an employer intentionally withholds money, that is a very, very serious matter, and none of us wants to see employees exploited. I think that is pretty huge, but there are reasons why we can\u2019t support this bill. Katie Nimon has articulated all the points very well, I would say, but let me remind everybody\u2014and it\u2019s not because we don\u2019t believe in the cause. In fact, we really do believe in it, but there are already key mechanisms in place. We have the Employment Relations Act, we have the Immigration Act, and we have all kinds of other little bits and pieces so that you are able to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EI think what might be quite useful for everybody is to actually go through what some of these processes actually are and how they actually look, or how effective it is. Present data shows the effectiveness in the current system in resolving employment issues, including the number of enforcement actions and penalties awarded. If we look at the 2022-23 financial year, there were 112 direct enforcement actions that were taken, resulting in approximately $1.13\u00A0million in penalties awarded by the Employment Relations Authority. In 2021-22: 212 investigations and $685,000 in penalties awarded. In 2023-24, of the 400-odd complaints, most of these were resolved without enforcing penalties. The system is actually working. Why would this House want to create another layer of bureaucracy on top of what we have, under the premise of keeping our workers safe?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s all great to hear all the stories, and I do believe it is really stressful. I remember one time when an employer didn\u2019t pay me and you\u2019ve got automatic payments coming out\u2014if you\u2019re living week to week, it\u2019s extremely stressful if you know you\u2019re not getting that money at all. That\u2019s absolutely horrible, and I don\u2019t think any of us can accept it, but we\u2019ve got a system. We\u2019ve got mechanisms in place. We don\u2019t want to see an employer being potentially victimised. We don\u2019t want to see our police going around and knocking on the doors of businesses when they\u2019ve actually got real crime to deal with. We do not support this bill, and I think it\u2019s very clear why we do not support it. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u00222965661cda7d4d1e9293a8da6bfcd9e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222965661cda7d4d1e9293a8da6bfcd9e7\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON (Minister for Rural Communities):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak on the Crimes (Theft by Employer) Amendment Bill. There\u2019s nothing, I\u2019ve found, in this House like employment relations to open up the old fractures between Labour and National, and the parties to the left and the right of them. This is the old battle between capital and labour, and they are the proxy wars that have gone on in the House for probably close to a hundred years between those two parties. This is where New Zealand First brings real value to these debates\u2014we see ourselves as Switzerland. We believe it is the Government\u2019s role to be a referee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EWe do believe and our voting record over time is that we do believe quite strongly in flexibility in the labour market. We have fought really hard over time for the 90-day trials and have supported Minister van Velden in this Parliament, and when we were last in coalition with Labour, we fought really hard to keep those 90-day trials for businesses of under 20 employees. We also supported recently around the process of supporting the excesses around the personal grievances to try to bring that back into some balance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EAt our core, our values are that we are an egalitarian party. We believe in fairness and that a fair day\u2019s work deserves a fair day\u2019s pay. We have consistently championed for rises in the minimum wage when we\u2019ve had the opportunity to be in coalition negotiations, including in this Parliament as well, although I must admit it\u2019s a bit easier when you\u2019re in coalition with Labour\u2014they\u2019ve been a bit more meaningful. At the very least, the very lowest bar that you should be clearing here is that you should be paid, and you should pay if you\u2019re an employer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EWe have evidence that this wage theft and exploitation does happen in this country, and it\u2019s not something that we should be proud of. That\u2019s why other jurisdictions also have brought in laws to address this issue, and we know that the original proponent of the bill\u2014and it\u2019s great to see him here\u2014Ibrahim Omer, was a victim of such a crime himself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EJust a history of our involvement, for those that may be tuning in for the first time. We were not in the House during the first reading of the bill. It was in those dark days when New Zealand First wasn\u2019t represented in this House in the 53rd Parliament, and we were not represented on the Education and Workforce Committee. We had the first opportunity to engage with the bill only during the second reading. We did vote it through to the committee of the whole House stage, but we did share some of the concerns of our colleagues on this side of the House that it wasn\u2019t tight or strong enough to protect employers that may have genuine cash-flow issues or genuine reasons why they might not have been able to make payroll. We worked diligently\u2014and through an amendment from my colleague Casey Costello\u2014in that committee of the whole House stage to get this bill into a state that we felt we could further consider it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EIn terms of what we\u2019re being asked to do, fundamentally, Camilla Belich, the proponent of this bill, was asking us two key questions: why do migrant workers here on work visas have the protection of a criminal process when New Zealand citizens and permanent residents do not have that same legal recourse, and why is it a crime for employees to steal from employers and the reverse does not apply? They are questions for which New Zealand First has yet to hear compelling answers, and that is why we will be using our key swing votes to assist this bill into law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThis bill will not criminalise the 99.9\u00A0percent of good, honest employers. All they have to do is continue to do what they do now: pay their wages and their contractual obligations to their employees. This bill will punish unscrupulous employees that seek to exploit the time and the labour of often vulnerable New Zealanders. Now, let\u2019s be honest here: most of these are recent immigrants, many of whom have come to this country for a better life, often with English as a second language and often from countries that do not have the same strong labour protections as we do. It speaks to our values, I think, that we would want to protect these vulnerable workers. They often do not have the means or the knowledge to go down the civil pathway that is being referenced by our colleagues on this side of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThe other point is that this is a deterrence factor. We are a law and order party. There should be consequences for a crime. We fundamentally believe that, and this bill does provide that deterrence factor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EI would like to commend my colleague Casey Costello. As I\u2019ve said, we did have some concerns about this bill when we kicked it round a little bit, and Casey tabled the amendment to new section\u00A0220AA(2) of the Crimes Act, inserted by clause\u00A04 of the bill. Casey brought a depth of experience to this issue. She had been a trustee of the Migrant Exploitation Relief Foundation prior to coming into Parliament and had represented vulnerable workers. She was also vice-president of the Police Association\u2014under Greg O\u2019Connor, I might say. I\u2019m not sure how Greg managed to get in above Casey, but that\u2019s a question for the Police Association. She has represented the police workforce, of course\u2014the police union, essentially\u2014and, of course, with 14 years\u2019 active service in the New Zealand Police, she knew the realities and was able to ground truth how the police may interact with this bill and how we could make it clearer for them. I\u2019d like to thank Casey for that work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThe real congratulations here are to Camilla Belich, of course. This is a substantive legislative achievement, Camilla. The members\u2019 bill stuff\u2014there\u2019s a continuum there, or a range, but this is at the substantive the end of those bills, I think. I congratulate you. Thank you very much for your constructive engagement on this bill, and I thank you and your team. There was almost a mini - select committee going on as we thrashed this out, and you were always open-minded to sensible changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThe real hero here today is Ibrahim Omer. I only got the chance to meet you during the dinner break. Your experience was pivotal to this bill. We talk a lot in this House, and every time you\u2019re asked as a politician, \u201CWhy do you want to be a politician?\u201D, well, it\u2019s to make a difference. I don\u2019t know where your political career will lead you in the future, Ibrahim, but you have made a difference today. It was your experience in putting that bill in the biscuit tin, and it was an example of Parliament working at its finest. So, without further ado, I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00229a477b0bf9d6485bb5f056aac0061552\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a477b0bf9d6485bb5f056aac0061552\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdcfb045cefa4400a058ed11ff7ed91c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdcfb045cefa4400a058ed11ff7ed91c\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E Ka pai. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou, e t\u016B ana ahau ki te whakapuaki i ng\u0101 whakaaro o Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori m\u014D te ture e k\u012Bia nei ko te Crimes (Theft by Employer) Amendment Bill. Enei k\u014Drero ka tukua ki te reo M\u0101ori. Tika tonu kua roa te iwi M\u0101ori e noho nei ki roto ki te r\u0101ngai kaimahi o te motu. N\u014D ng\u0101 rima tekau, ono tekau, whitu tekau, t\u014Dia mai o m\u0101tou m\u0101tua t\u012Bpuna ki r\u014D t\u0101one noho ai hei kaimahi. N\u014D reira, taua ao, kei te m\u0101rama nui nei te iwi M\u0101ori ki \u0113nei t\u016B\u0101huatanga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, hei t\u0101kiri i te ia o aku k\u014Drero, e tika ana kia mihi ki te tangata nei ki a koe Aperahama, Ibraham, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Haramai, t\u014Dia mai \u014D whakaaro nui hei wetewete m\u014D t\u0113nei Whare. H\u0101koa, kua kore e tino whai whakaaro nui t\u0113nei Whare ki te manene, ki te tangata whenua, ki te iwi parauri i roto i ng\u0101 tau. N\u014D reira, \u0113n\u0101 t\u016B \u0101wangawanga, \u0113n\u0101 t\u016B wero katoa o te hunga taketake ka t\u014Dia mai ki roto ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero, n\u014D reira t\u0113n\u0101 koe, Aperahama. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira kei te P\u012Bka, ehara i te mea ka t\u014Daitia ng\u0101 k\u014Drero. E tika tonu ana, ko t\u0101 te iwi M\u0101ori e mea ana, kia kotahi te ture, kia kotahi te ture kia mana \u014D kupu, kia m\u0101ia t\u014D \u016B ki ng\u0101 tikanga. N\u014D reira, m\u0113n\u0101 he tikanga rua t\u014D te whare, t\u014D te T\u0101h\u016Bh\u016B o te Ture r\u0101nei, whakatikahia. Ko te w\u0101 tuatoru pea t\u0113nei, tuarua, tuatoru kua t\u016B au ki ki te k\u014Drero m\u014D t\u0113tahi pire kua roa e noho waikura ana i roto i t\u0113nei Whare. Te hanga nei k\u0101ore t\u0113nei Whare m\u014D te whaiwhai haere i ng\u0101 ture kua roa e taka h\u0113 nei k\u0101tahi ka hoki mai ki te whakatika me te patipati i t\u014Dna an\u014D tuara. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira kei te tautoko atu m\u0101tou, m\u0101rika, kia kotahi te ture, ahakoa kaipakihi, ahakoa kaimahi r\u0101nei. An\u0101, ko t\u0101ku e \u0101piti nei ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero, ko te iwi M\u0101ori kua roa e noho hunga kaimahi ana i roto i ng\u0101 r\u0101ngai mahi katoa o t\u0113nei motu. N\u014D reira koia t\u0101 m\u0101tou e mea nei kei te tautoko ake. Tika tonu kia kotahi te ture, tika tonu kia h\u0101ngai te kupu o te Whare ki t\u014Dna mana, e ai te w\u0101hi ki a ia, ki te kore, hei aha m\u0101 te Whare? N\u014D reira, ka waihohia ake ki reira. Kei te tautoko m\u0101tou i te pire. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E[All is good. Greetings to all, I stand to voice the sentiments of the M\u0101ori Party with regards to the Crimes (Theft by Employer) Amendment Bill. These sentiments will be delivered in te reo M\u0101ori. It is only true that M\u0101ori have for a long time been a part of the labour force in this country. In the 50s, the 60s, and the 70s, our ancestors were dragged to the cities to live as labourers. Therefore, that world is something that the M\u0101ori people understand well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ETo strike at the gist of what I am saying, it is only appropriate that I thank you Aperahama, Ibraham. Welcome, bring with you your wise opinions for this House to ponder, in spite of this House not being very considerate to immigrants, to indigenous peoples, or to brown-skinned people in the past. So all of those concerns and challenges of the indigenous peoples are introduced into discussions, so thank you, Abraham. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ETo the Speaker, I will not prolong my speech. The axiom of the M\u0101ori is true, that there should be one law and that your words are your bond, and to hold fast to code. Therefore, if there are dual rules in this House, or of the Ministry of Justice, then this must be rectified. This is perhaps the second or third time that I have stood to talk about this bill that has been sitting here rusting away in the House. It is as if this House is not adhering to the rules that it has long been disregarding, and now is trying to correct it and stroke their own back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ESo we support it wholeheartedly, for there to be one law, whether it pertains to a business person or a labourer. I would also like to add that M\u0101ori have long been labourers in all sectors of the country. Therefore, that is why we are in support. It is only right for there to be one law, and that the House is true to its word, because if it is not, then what is the point of this issue to the House? I will leave it there. We support the bill. Thank you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022748f5111ceea4635988d1a2155cec89c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022748f5111ceea4635988d1a2155cec89c\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a great pleasure to support this bill and, hopefully, it becoming law. I just want to commend Camilla Belich and Ibrahim Omer\u2014who is here with us today\u2014for the work that they have done to bring this issue into the debating chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think, at the core of it, this bill is asking us to consider whether not paying an employee their wages is theft\u2014pretty bloody common sense, I reckon\u2014and I think, to me, that should spark a broader conversation politically. Workplaces are nothing without the workers, and therefore we should be willing and be brave and aspirational in saying who should have control of the workplaces and who should retain the ability to make decisions around how workplaces run, including how the profits and the wealth generated from workplaces are, therefore, distributed to workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think this bill has sparked a really important conversation. Having worked in hospitality, as with my peers, I know this is a huge issue in the hospitality sector. I know that Ibrahim, coming from the union movement, has heard for himself many, many stories\u2014as has Camilla Belich, as well\u2014of workers talking about, basically, those workers not having had their wages paid by their bosses and, basically, that profit, that money, having been kept from them, and there are the impacts on people on the ground. It\u2019s the difference between being able to put food on the table, being able to pay your bills, and being able to actually engage in your workplace constructively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think, to me, that the key to the success of this bill will be continuing to keep a really close eye to whether the deterrence factor applies. If it doesn\u2019t, it\u2019s actually not a failure of the purpose of this bill, but it actually should be a call for Government to do far more, to give greater power to workers in the workplaces, so that this issue doesn\u2019t keep happening again. I look forward to this bill becoming law, and for us continuing to have brave and bold conversations about who should have control of the workplaces.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u0022af098c34fafe4647818a5622f6825811\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af098c34fafe4647818a5622f6825811\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. First of all, I\u2019d like to acknowledge Ibrahim Omer, here in the House this evening. Thank you for the contribution you made as part of the select committee process and for your willingness to continue to engage in this legislative process that we have in this special place. I just want to welcome you back here this evening. I also want to acknowledge Camilla Belich for shepherding this through the Education and Workforce Committee, for her willingness to have a k\u014Drero, a conversation, about some of the nuances of employment law in New Zealand. Certainly, I did learn through the process, and I want to acknowledge that this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the select committee for the hard work that they put into shepherding this through, the conversations that happened, led by New Zealand First and by the Hon Casey Costello, and the amendment that was put forward as part of the committee of the whole House stage. I\u2019m not sure that that amendment has been particularly explained so far this evening, in that there were some key words added, which included \u201Cwithout reasonable excuse\u201D. That was part of why the National Party, as part of the committee of the whole House, did support that amendment\u2014so that, if the bill did become law this evening, it would be a better law for it. I just want to, as I say, acknowledge our coalition partners and the Hon Casey Costello for bringing that amendment to the House and ensuring that the piece of legislation is better than it would have otherwise been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EIt troubles me this evening that this has become a conversation about whether or not employees should get paid. The answer to that is pretty simple: employees should get paid what they are due for the work that they do. That is not the question here this evening. The question here this evening is whether or not the system that we currently have in place adequately, appropriately addresses that concern. It\u2019s important to note that we have the Employment Relations Act that makes it very clear that underpayment and breaches of employment agreements can be dealt with; that the Minimum Wage Act and the Wages Protection Act ensure workers receive their full entitlements and prevent unlawful deductions. We have the Holidays Act, which requires payment of leave entitlements and imposes penalties for non-compliance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255b0eeabe3e0417386809f7b87ea45ae\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Talk to some workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226881acb5d3dd4a8cb0a66b8fb1d2b96c\u0022\u003ECARL BATES\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I\u2019m not going to take side comments from the Greens this evening, who want us to hug the middle, right? We\u2019re talking about stealing money from employees, but they don\u2019t want to give them tax cuts and put more money in their pockets. Quite frankly, I can\u2019t even see why they feel they\u2019ve got an opinion this evening on this topic. We\u2019ll just keep that k\u014Drero over there quiet while we focus on the current law that we have\u2014a law that protects employees, gives them rights, and ensures that they have the right to deal with issues in their employment relationship when they come up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003ENow, what was interesting through the process, both here in the House and in the select committee, is that we asked for data around theft from employees on a number of occasions. What we were given were broad challenges, using the current system that provides for grievances, that didn\u2019t and couldn\u2019t accurately provide a number for theft from employees that\u2019s currently occurring. What is being proposed this evening, and proposed through this process, is something that tries to deal with the exception rather than the rule. I take the point from our New Zealand First colleagues that 99.9\u00A0percent of all employers are good employers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9591c980a944c578cd52604124b8cbb\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: How do you know that if you say you have no data?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1768d60e9594b82a2e47cd97ba6731f\u0022\u003ECARL BATES\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m simply quoting a member who has shared that perspective earlier this evening, and a perspective that I value significantly more than anything that comes from that corner of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EThe point about the 99.9\u00A0percent of employers that do a good job is that, while this bill doesn\u2019t target them, it is going to increase the compliance burden, the expectation, and my concern is the mental health of the small and medium employers, small and medium enterprises, who are going to have another thing that their HR consultant comes along and says, \u201CAre you aware that you could go to jail, that you need to come to this workshop, you need to learn more about this?\u201D It\u2019s going to add another thing that employers and businesses have to learn about that doesn\u2019t actually solve a problem\u2014that doesn\u2019t add to the set of tools that are already in our legislative framework to deal with this sort of problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003ENow, the comment was made earlier this evening that businesses don\u2019t work without employees. I agree with that. In my journey as a businessowner, without a team we couldn\u2019t have achieved anything, but, similarly, employees don\u2019t have a job without an employer. It is a relationship that requires both to be involved. Yes, you can talk about some of the larger ones and how it\u2019ll be easy for them to ensure they comply with this, and, of course, there are already remedies if they don\u2019t. We make that point very clearly in the House this evening. There are already remedies for those where this happens. I feel for an employee that is in this situation where they have had the effective theft of their wages by an employer. I feel for them, but there are already ways, avenues within our law, for them to ensure that they get their wages paid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EI am concerned, as I say, for those small and medium employers, those sub-20 that my learned friend spoke about earlier, and what this will mean for them. The question for us this evening is: when we add a law to the statute book, does it add to the set of tools? And is the cost of implementation\u2014and I\u2019ve heard it said a couple of times over recent times, the cost of red and green tape. We have to remember that those two things are tied together in this House. When we talk about thieving from the pockets of employees, we should also be talking about the fact that both of those parties\u2014who are so concerned with employee earnings in this country that they voted in this House against tax cuts for those very people, which I just find very ironic with their concern. We have to think about the cost of implementation of these laws when we already have a legislative framework to deal with this challenge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003ENow, during the select committee process\u2014and it might not have actually been on this bill specifically, because we have the unions talk to us on basically every bill in the Education and Workforce Committee, and our chair, Katie Nimon, effectively guides us through those discussions. The point was made recently by one of the unions that, in employment relationships, there is a good-faith requirement as part of the employment agreements. They argued that this covered all manner of issues that may come up in an employment relationship. While I\u2019m certainly not suggesting this evening that that is the only component of employment law in New Zealand that an employee who has had theft of their wages can rely on\u2014because I\u2019ve already referred to the actual specific statutes and the language within those statutes that ensures protection for employees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EI did think it was sort of rather ironic that, on the one hand, the unions argue, on the occasion that suits them, that good faith covers everything, but, on other occasions, maybe good faith isn\u2019t enough and we need much more specific language within our legislation and within our framework. Of course, we don\u2019t support that. The biggest thing that this does is it shifts one aspect of employment law from the civil jurisdiction to the criminal jurisdiction. We don\u2019t believe that that actually improves in any way the ability for employees to get recompense when they have had their wages withheld or stolen. Therefore, I don\u2019t commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00222cb0c3b6e35d4d9bb281fafafd8d45a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222cb0c3b6e35d4d9bb281fafafd8d45a0\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. First of all, I do want to start by congratulating Camilla Belich for bringing this here today; and, of course, my friend and colleague Ibrahim Omer, who\u2019s here in the House tonight, who brought this bill to the House in the first instance. They\u2019ve done a great job, not only of drafting an important bill but also of doing that other thing in politics, which is marshalling support around the House. It does demonstrate that Parliament can do a fantastic job, particularly around members\u2019 bills, where our job is to genuinely persuade our colleagues from every party and marshal support. Well done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t often tell personal stories in this House, but I want to start with one. It\u2019s the story of Charmaine. Charmaine, whose name is already public, worked with me at a law firm. She was the human resources manager, and she was very good at her job. But she wasn\u2019t honest. What she did\u2014she was clever\u2014was when it was someone\u2019s time to leave, she would add some extra holiday pay. Over the course of several years, whenever someone left, she\u2019d get an extra week of their holiday pay. It\u2019s called fraud; it\u2019s theft. She stole, over the course of several years, hundreds of thousands of dollars. She went to jail. She was sentenced to more than three years in prison, and that was right because she was dishonest and she stole from her employer. I was a partner at that law firm. There was a bit of a joke that, because of her theft, some of the partners couldn\u2019t upgrade their Porsches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI want to tell you another story. It\u2019s fictitious. It\u2019s a story about an employer who, when people leave, short-change them their holiday pay; who don\u2019t give them their holiday pay; and if they don\u2019t ask, they don\u2019t follow it up. Over the course of many years, they steal hundreds of thousands of dollars from their employees. Their employees don\u2019t miss out on a Porsche; they miss out on their mortgage payments. And do you know what? The National Party would want the world to stay that way. That is ridiculous. Charmaine stole money just as much as an employer who short-changes someone on their holiday steals money. I find it unbelievable that the National Party\u2014and I cannot believe that Carl Bates called not stealing a \u201Ccompliance cost\u201D. I cannot believe that he said that that was a \u201Cred tape burden we shouldn\u2019t put on employers\u201D. Charmaine went to jail for a reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EKatie Nimon, who at least had the decency to not sound like she believed what she was saying, would say Charmaine should deal with that in the Employment Court; it\u2019s a civil matter. Now, we know that when people are dishonest, when they steal money, when, in the words of this bill, they \u201Cintentionally\u201D and \u201Cwithout reasonable excuse\u201D take money, the criminal law should kick in. Look, the ACT Party I forgive, because they\u2019re irredeemable. But the National Party? Really? The National Party, who put themselves out as a thoughtful party who wants to get the law right? Why? Really\u2014why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe fact of the matter is that this went to the Education and Workforce Committee and 84\u00A0percent of the submitters there were totally in favour of this reform. All we\u2019re asking for is an even playing field: when an employee steals, they suffer the consequences; when an employer steals, they suffer the consequences. Just because the employer happens to have the money that the employee is entitled to in their bank account doesn\u2019t change things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow, I want to be really clear. There\u2019s been scaremongering and I want to be really, really clear: if the employer doesn\u2019t have the money in the bank; has tried their best and is not intentionally depriving someone of their wages, it\u2019s not theft\u2014it\u2019s a liquidation and the civil law deals with that. All the reckless trading provisions deal with that, as they should. No one\u2019s going to go to jail for not having the money to pay their staff because the sales weren\u2019t enough that week. It\u2019s really important to remember that. The fact of the matter is that a party that we look to for responsible government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249c86253e8774f66bbb417c4c417db29\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, that\u2019s good of you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d1b76004036402d9e5f808f9e5f2ca6\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, we do. No, no, we look to you because you are in Government and we expect you to make reasonable decisions about things like this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI do want to recognise New Zealand First on this because they have come to the table and they\u2019ve brought a thoughtful and considered approach, and an open mind, which is all we ask. Thank you for your support for this bill, because I think it reflects on the fact that we will not agree on everything\u2014we didn\u2019t when we were in Government together, and we won\u2019t if ever that happens again. But on this we agree and we can come together, so thank you for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThis bill is actually an unbelievably simple bill: if you steal, pay the consequences, and stealing is the same whether you\u2019re an employee stealing from an employer or an employer stealing from an employee. That\u2019s why this bill will pass tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u0022312602d221a045e0845f4113d56ced3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022312602d221a045e0845f4113d56ced3c\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is a pleasure to rise to speak on this bill because I think this an opportunity for the National Party to explain our sensible opposition to this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003ENone of us wants to see migrant workers or any workers exploited in any way, and I want to just acknowledge Ibrahim Omer for his bringing of this bill, likely to become law, to the House. I can understand the reasons behind it and what you want to accomplish, and nobody disputes that. Nobody wants to see the bad actors, the people who are using their positions of power where they have more understanding of how to take advantage of people. Nobody wants to see that, and that\u2019s not right, and we do not in any way condone that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EI think, when we talk about legislation, from our position, we look at what is the problem that we are trying to solve. From hearing the story that you brought, the problem was that there was an imbalance of power and not understanding what the rights were or what the correct thing was to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EWhen you make something a criminal offence, does it really deter people? That\u2019s the real question. This is creating a new pathway into criminal law when there is already a pathway for resolution through the civil courts. The ability of employers already exists to use the Employment Relations Act, the Minimum Wage Act, the Wages Protections Act\u2014all have provisions that prevent unlawful deductions from wages, as does the Holidays Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EWhen we think about what is it that we are trying to do here, putting it in under a new system or a different way of approaching this is not going to make it any quicker. This is not going to increase people\u2019s access to justice. It may increase people\u2019s access to legal aid, and maybe that\u2019s the real reason that we\u2019re looking at it through this avenue, because if you were to bring a matter through the civil court, my understanding is you don\u2019t have the same access to legal aid. Again, this is another problem. This is the problem: people can\u2019t afford to take the actions, and, therefore, they\u2019re not getting access to justice. That\u2019s a real problem, and we do need to look at that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EBy creating a pathway through the criminal system, we will actually likely slow down people\u2019s access to justice, because it takes a lot longer for these things to go through a criminal proceeding. Some of my colleagues have also spoken about the impact of the police needing to be involved in these proceedings as well. We can imagine a situation\u2014and, yes, there\u2019s always hypotheticals to discuss\u2014where, as an employee is leaving an employment relationship, for whatever reason, they can raise an allegation through this. The fact of having to raise this allegation means it\u2019s then investigated. It goes through the police process. They come and knock on an employer\u2019s door. The employer has to defend themselves, and it adds more cost because they have to then employ a lawyer. Look, the lawyers are the ones who win in this; it\u2019s always the lawyers, isn\u2019t it? The ones who win here are always the lawyers; they\u2019re always the ones who win here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve got the privilege, now, of sitting on the Education and Workforce Committee, and I\u2019m very, very, very sad to see that Camilla Belich is no longer on it, because I felt we would have had some good across-the-seats discussions. However, now coming to speak on this bill, I can see that\u2014through the process, as the chair, Katie Nimon, pointed out so ably\u2014it was very well discussed and traversed all through the select committee. I thought it was very interesting that some of the concerns that were raised through the submissions haven\u2019t been fully addressed. I thought it was interesting to read that the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions pointed out that it would be hard to establish mens rea for non-natural persons. Do we actually have a resolution for that? I\u2019m not sure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EAlso, Business NZ noted the high threshold of beyond reasonable doubt imposed through the criminal system compared to the balance of probabilities that lies in the Employment Court. This then makes the proving of intention quite difficult. The prosecutors have a greater burden of proof to say that this was an intention. We know that proving intentionality can be very, very difficult. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221da331e2adcc4a38a92f721a1ae1b766\u0022\u003EKatie Nimon\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019ve still got to prove it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe006aee56f84cfe99a958b92882e9af\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019ve still got to prove that\u2019s the case. Then, if they\u2019re able to do that, is this a pattern or is this a one-off thing? This is going to be an interesting part of the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EIf you allow me to indulge for one very quick moment, the chair of the Education and Workforce Committee pointed out to me that she omitted to make a very important acknowledgment during her speech. I\u2019ve undertaken to fix that error for her. She is no longer here, but anyway, she needed to acknowledge her husband, Jeremy, and his birthday tomorrow. Happy birthday, Jeremy, for tomorrow. Thank you for your indulgence, Madam Speaker. Look, this, as I said\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229ae504638554d3b9a9df2485d0d44a8\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: You can stretch it; only three more minutes, Vanessa. You can do it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b83f2f7b96a48ef966632eddeaf2ef9\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK\u003C/span\u003E: Only three more minutes, says Duncan. Yes, thank you. Do you have any more contributions to make to my speech?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003ELook, when we are looking at this, we absolutely acknowledge the good intentions behind it. There will be unintended consequences that come from this. My colleague Carl Bates pointed out that employers are a very valuable part of this relationship. A relationship of trust should be in existence between employers and employees. This is a matter that\u2019s likely to affect very few people within an employment relationship, because it is a very small number of people that are at that extreme bad end\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a37411497d4148f083dd8c3dfb2b194b\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t know that. You just said there is no data. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022651360ba47974577b3f41ad1cce3b57c\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK\u003C/span\u003E: The member opposite says that we don\u2019t know that. It\u2019s already been pointed out that neither do they, because there is no good data on that, and maybe that is because there hasn\u2019t been the ability for people to bring this before the law. It will be very interesting to see what happens. However, everything that happens that is added through this process will slow down the justice system. If every problem that needed to have a really careful, nuanced approach to it was given a new legislative agreement, a way of going through it, it really is just going to clog things up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not solving the problems, the underlying problem being a mismatch of information, a mismatch of power that is abused. That\u2019s not going to be resolved by this change in the law, changing of avenues of recompense, and it\u2019s not going to solve fully the fact that we have issues with access to justice because of cost in this country. That is a different matter; it is a different problem. It is something that should be seriously considered, but taking this course of action to solve that problem\u2014that will result in other consequences\u2014may not be the effect that we wanted to achieve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EWhat we want to do is to eliminate migrant exploitation; we absolutely want to do that. I do not commend the bill to the House for that reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022854c944669cd4a849a0967e1ea2808ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022854c944669cd4a849a0967e1ea2808ab\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This bill amends the Crimes Act to clarify that intentionally not paying an employee their wages is theft. The law as it stands does not address this; it\u2019s currently carried out in a civil jurisdiction. This bill corrects that and makes it a matter for law enforcement through the police. This bill supports Labour\u2019s continued effort to protect workers\u2019 rights and ensure they get a fair deal by strengthening laws around labour law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve heard the most sorrowful speeches ever done in this House tonight. I\u2019ve heard that theft from an employee is equivalent to a layer of bureaucracy. We\u2019ve also heard that not stealing is too much compliance\u2014we don\u2019t want to do that\u2014and also that making it a criminal offence doesn\u2019t deter people. Well, that\u2019s a new one from National; I thought it did, according to them. I\u2019m quite astounded by what we\u2019ve heard tonight, and I look forward to reviewing some of those speeches later on and having a good laugh. But it\u2019s not a laughing matter, because wage theft is a real and constant problem in New Zealand. This is a wider issue: many New Zealanders still have fewer rights at work. Many workers never even see a written employment contract, even though there is a legal requirement for them to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI would like to acknowledge Ibrahim Omer and his work in bringing the bill so far. He has worked incredibly hard and he has real experiences of this happening in New Zealand. I\u2019d also like to acknowledge my colleague Camilla Belich for continuing the good work and progressing this bill in order for it to pass into law. I would like to acknowledge all those union workers and activists who continue to fight for workers\u2019 rights in a time when that has been incredibly difficult. I know that we\u2019ve still got a lot of work to do in this space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EFor many New Zealand workers, the era of the Employment Contracts Act in 1991 has\u00A0never gone from the workplace. There is still an inherent inequality of bargaining power that is very much alive, so this bill takes an important step to rectifying this imbalance. Fair\u00A0Pay Agreements also did this, but that\u2019s already been stripped away by this Government. By having this bill in place, it actually makes it better for those people experiencing wage\u00A0theft.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ETonight, in a break, I heard a story that was of wage theft where someone who was working in New Zealand was due $3.50 extra an hour. That had accrued over a period of months. It came to thousands of dollars. They pursued it through their union delegate, they wrote letters, they inquired as to how they would get that money paid back, and there was no engagement from the employer. What happened was the delegate forwarded the link to this bill to the employer and said, \u201CThis will be made law in New Zealand and you will be breaking the law.\u201D Within a short period of time, the full amount of unpaid wages was paid. In situations, funnily enough, where there\u2019s predetermination\u2014white-collar crime\u2014actually having a crime is a good deterrent. If it\u2019s clear what the penalty is, in some areas like this, it does deter employers from taking money from employees unnecessarily.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll try and keep my call short, but I\u2019d like to say that for those migrant workers in New Zealand, this adds to their protections in place. For those employees that have to fight for their rights, there is now something in place\u2014equivalent to Australia, equivalent to other jurisdictions. The penalties aren\u2019t as tough here, but I really hope they go towards building a body of law that protects workers to earn a fair wage and to have enough money in their pockets to hold their head up, to put food on their table, and to be proud of being a Kiwi. And it\u2019s a damn shame that side opposite doesn\u2019t agree with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u00222fd846b8a7fb4b62b75a67327255ca1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222fd846b8a7fb4b62b75a67327255ca1c\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to rise on the third reading of the Crimes (Theft by Employer) Amendment Bill. I wasn\u2019t going to take a call, but, sitting here, I felt compelled to get up and share my views on what is, I think, an important debate. I would like to start by acknowledging Ibrahim Omer for your contribution and Camilla Belich, a Northcote local, for taking this member\u2019s bill on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EWhere I start from is similar to where a lot of people on this side of the House start from, which is that we believe in individual employment relationships. There\u2019s no secret it is an ideological debate that the left and the right have had for decades, and we will continue to have it. From my perspective, we believe in employment relationships that should be employer and employee led\u2014individual. The Government shouldn\u2019t have a role to play; it should just set the parameters and let those relationships get on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EI\u2019m of the view, having lived around the world\u2014I\u2019ve lived in different contexts. I\u2019ve lived in France, which has had a very heavy-handed approach to employment relationships. Look at where they\u2019re at, at the moment. I\u2019ve also lived in America, which has a completely opposite approach, and look at where they\u2019re at, at the moment. Actually, there is no right or wrong way; it\u2019s what fits for New Zealand\u2019s context. I think where we\u2019re getting to is getting back to that individual employment relationship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EI think that this bill is heavy-handed. There are already a lot of ways in which employees can go about exercising their rights under the Employment Relations Act, the Minimum Wage Act, and the Holidays Act. Zooming out, there are a lot of laws in this country that aren\u2019t policed. You look at the litter laws in New Zealand. I\u2019ve got police in my own family. I don\u2019t want police going around making sure that people are fined for littering, because there are laws in place for that. There are by-laws in place as well. We\u2019ve got more serious crimes that we want the police to focus on. In Northcote, in the member\u2019s own electorate, there\u2019ve been some serious crimes committed: robbery, armed robbery, stabbings, murders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276abb6fc7d5940a498db1925b12f91ba\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Where?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226adc48195e484c05b43f0d905e9ebbd4\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: In the great electorate of Northcote\u2014come over and see, Willie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ce15b67825140f8ada7d8e0732e4c74\u0022\u003EKatie Nimon\u003C/span\u003E: They don\u2019t really take crime seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b61d3ecc3a8e4a3bb0be03ef0df5ce04\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: They don\u2019t take crime seriously. I want to commend the hard-working police of the Waitemat\u0101 district, who have gone out to bat for those types of crime, who found the offenders and who are bringing them to justice. That\u2019s the crime that we want to focus on, because that\u2019s the crime that\u2019s actually going to make our community safer, on this side of the House. Look, I\u2019ve heard some good debate in this House today\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ca28b139a7c497bb8c194d8764032b3\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Not from your side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5619c7d37674ce0a78dce05727f61fa\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014from both sides\u2014around why this bill should or should not go forward, but, again, I want to bring it back today to the core crux of this, which is that we don\u2019t think this is needed. We don\u2019t think this is needed. We think that there\u2019s unintended consequences. We want the police focused on improving the safety of our community and we want an employment relationship that works at the individual level. We want Government out of our lives. Northcote voters, except that person over there, want Government out of our\u00A0lives\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a96f9adf4c2e4735bcdb7ff469c54919\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Who?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d808ae3a49384275b04fd379c554cfaf\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: Camilla, and she lives in the most wealthy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d02c885a3c8496580dab99b53eed8f6\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Two names: first name, last name. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f661bcd47a4743c79016842456e06f15\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: Camilla Belich. People in her neighbourhood\u2014I\u2019ve door-knocked every door in her street, and I know the sentiment of her community. They would not approve of such a bill, because they believe in employment relationships at the individual level. They believe in the current architecture and that it\u2019s sufficient, and they want our police focused on what matters to them. I do not commend this bill to the House tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022f58e3ef90d14437ebc76b7b640aa345a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f58e3ef90d14437ebc76b7b640aa345a\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m trying to imagine the National Party caucus meeting when they discussed this bill and Katie Nimon put her hand up and said, \u201CCamilla Bellich has got this member\u2019s bill, and it will make it a criminal offence if people intentionally steal money from other people.\u201D I\u2019m trying to imagine what the discussion was in the National Party caucus that led them to think it was a good idea to oppose this at the third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI actually think tonight\u2019s debate could be really, really useful for teaching young people civics, because, as an MP, from time to time some young person will say to you, \u201CWhat does the National Party stand for? You know, the blue team\u2014what happens if you tick the blue colour?\u201D Well, tonight is actually a really revealing demonstration of what the National Party stands for. The self-styled \u201CParty of Law and Order\u201D is voting against a bill that will criminalise the intentional theft of money by employers from their employees. That\u2019s what\u2019s going on in the Chamber tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve seen\u2014just unbelievable things that we\u2019ve heard from that side of the House, not from the New Zealand First colleagues, I would say. Katie Nimon thought that this offence would clog up the courts; it was a layer of bureaucracy and red tape. Carl Bates, God bless him, worried that this would be bad for the mental health of business owners because the HR consultant would come running in and say, \u201CYou could go to jail if you steal money!\u201D It\u2019s just absolutely unbelievable. What it does illustrate, and what it will teach generations of civics students, is that the core value of the National Party is to protect the economic interests of employers at the expense of everybody else who works for a living. That is the core value of the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EIt shouldn\u2019t really surprise us that they want to defend the interests of employers in the face of logic, of morals, of principle and reason, that they will reflexively support the right of employers to steal money and not be held accountable for it, because they opposed every single increase to the minimum wage\u2014every single one. For as many years as I can remember, they trashed fair-pay agreements as one of the first things they did when they were elected, because they didn\u2019t want low-paid workers to earn a decent living. They restored unfair trial periods and they\u2019re also in the House at the moment bringing in a bill that will allow employers to deduct money from a worker\u2019s wage if they so much as wear a badge or a T-shirt during industrial action. That\u2019s the kind of party that the National Party is. That is their core values.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ETonight\u2019s debate reveals this incredible double standard: that they will stand up for employers, defend their economic interests, do everything they can to drive down the cost of labour at the expense of working New Zealanders, but they will not support a bill that criminalises the intentional theft of money. Absolutely unbelievable. I want to thank and give credit to Ibrahim Omer and Camilla Belich for bringing this bill to the House and showing generations of civic students what kind of party the National Party is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022 data-id=\u002221224fad7756401eb6f81d862a1ef84f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221224fad7756401eb6f81d862a1ef84f\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I\u2019m the last speaker on this bill, and sometimes you\u2019re that person: you\u2019re the last speaker at a function before everyone goes to have a beer. Well, that\u2019s kind of where we\u2019re at, at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to start with this: the previous speaker, the Hon Phil Twyford, was\u2014let\u2019s see\u2014focused on what it would be like in the National caucus. Well, I\u2019ve got a question: I wonder what it was like in the Labour caucus when they were in power. Let\u2019s go back, and this concept of putting a bill forward which actually says what\u2014and then this bill came up for discussion. Did they think it was so important then that they would actually put it on their own Order Paper and pass it? Oh, hold on, hold on, what happened? Nothing. Crickets\u2014no noise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003EI find it a little bit hypocritical that suddenly they\u2019re all in behind this bill when they have had their opportunity. In six long years of destroying the New Zealand economy, they didn\u2019t have enough time and priority to actually put this on the Order Paper, and that was what was missing. I take these crocodile tears with a rather large grain of salt, and I\u2019ll just put that right out there, right now. But then\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db0d016cbcb647e884b03a408c3c096a\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Indian salt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb32584aaf1243b18d60df70d3db1cf4\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, good salt\u2014very good salt. It\u2019s from Blenheim. They make great salt there\u2014very good. Good to hear from you\u2014welcome to the House. It\u2019s great to have you here. Look, now, so that\u2019s\u2014[Interruption] God, I\u2019m getting a lot of commentary here. Everyone is very excited about this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003ENow, I think it\u2019s important, actually, and I would like to acknowledge that getting a member\u2019s bill drawn is quite an achievement. I think we have to acknowledge that, and I would like to acknowledge the original mover of the bill, Ibrahim Omer\u2014congratulations\u2014and also then Camilla Belich, who has followed this bill through to this point, where you\u2019ve obviously managed to convince one of our coalition partners to support the bill, and well done to you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to just acknowledge the other members of the great select committee that we sat on, the Education and Workforce Committee, although it\u2019s all been blown up recently because we\u2019ve got new members coming and going. I\u2019ve lost count of who\u2014I\u2019m not quite sure who\u2019s on it any more, actually. I\u2019d just like to acknowledge our great chair, Katie Nimon, who did a great job, and her husband, Jeremy, who was in here in the House earlier tonight\u2014good to have him here. I acknowledge the deputy chair, Carl Bates, who did a great job; also Mike Butterick, who was part of that committee for a while\u2014great to have you here\u2014and then there\u2019s Parmjeet Parmar. But then we go to the other side of the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227389b998b54440aeb6cf60567da6605e\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s got 7\u00BD minutes to go and he\u2019s doing his thankyous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2a707f644f54861bf01f60069b9e077\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM\u003C/span\u003E: Look, thank you for the advice\u2014I really appreciate it. Thank you. Then there\u2019s all the other members from the other side of the House: the Hon Phil Twyford, Camilla herself, Jan Tinetti, and Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March, who was here earlier. It\u2019s fantastic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003ELook, I think it\u2019s important: the thing that concerns me most is that being an employer, when you are an employer, you\u2019re taking a big risk. You\u2019re the person, or a group of people, that actually starts a business, takes a risk, and creates the opportunity for employees to work for you. Good employers do a great job, and so do good employees, and I have to acknowledge that up front. We all want to make sure that people absolutely get paid for the work they do, but when that doesn\u2019t happen, for whatever reason, then there is already a process that takes care of that. There\u2019s a civil process that can actually take care of that, right, through the Employment Relations Act currently, and the Minimum Wage Act and the Wages Protection Act. They all provide that opportunity, right?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003EThink about it as an employer, where you\u2019re doing your best and suddenly out of nowhere something happens and next minute you get a knock on the door and the police are turning up and you are being questioned about whether you\u2019ve done your payroll properly or not. That is a big stress and worry as an employer. Running a business is not an easy thing\u2014it\u2019s not an easy thing\u2014and I think it\u2019s really important people remember that and acknowledge that, right? I think it\u2019s very, very important to keep that in mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003EWhen you think about the employers who get out there and create businesses and do things and create economic wealth in our country and take those risks\u2014I\u2019m thinking about all those great employers who in the not too distant future are going to come up to the great area of Northland and they\u2019re going to build a big highway called the Northland Expressway. They\u2019re going to build this expressway, and there are going to be lots of different employers and subcontractors who employ people. This is really important: we need to actually open up the economy of Northland, and these are the people that are going to be the employers that own the bulldozers and the graders that do the work. This is a tough enough job as it is without actually having to worry about having police knock on the door and call out for a criminal offence. I think that is really, really concerning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003EThese are the people that are going to build the roads. These are the people that are actually going to drill the tunnels that are going to take us through the Dome Valley, all the\u00A0way up to the great electorate of Northland. I just think it\u2019s really important we remember all that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231b18e0c5a414f238856ae84ae183ba5\u0022\u003EHon Phil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Grant, you were doing so well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275db613a99004ca2a40b093cbb3b95bb\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m getting great advice. The thing here is I think it\u2019s really important. The irony of the Hon Phil Twyford making a lot of noise at the moment is that he was the one that cancelled our road that the employers could not work on. I haven\u2019t forgotten that, the Hon Phil Twyford\u2014the employers never had the chance, so therefore you took that away from us, and you took that away from all the businesses in the North\u2014right? You missed that opportunity. I really think\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222de079e975ca4c0fa67a00bd9e1eb973\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Toll the roads of Northland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269da71fbb90e4351a59f19eeafbdbd15\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely. The roads of national significance are back. The employers of national significance are back, which is great news, right\u2014great news.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003EI would like to acknowledge, actually, that this bill was improved a bit with New Zealand First\u2019s contribution\u2014at least to really put a focus in on the word \u201Cintent\u201D. That is the one good thing that did come out of this whole process, and I have to acknowledge that from there. The thing is, there\u2019ve been lots of bills and so forth passed or rules created with good intent, but the stress that comes, and then the lawyers get involved and the legal system gets involved, and good farmers, for example, suddenly find themselves at the mercy of law, for example around farming practices, and it comes back to haunt them\u2014well, this could be the same here. The extra stress that puts on a business owner is something else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003EI think that probably just about covers it all off, because, actually, we\u2019re about to get to the point where I will have to sit down, and we\u2019ve only got a couple of minutes to go\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275724b2040d3491d8e939cfde8b62024\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206005033b28c48f787b89f319765b033\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and I\u2019m sure they\u2019re all disappointed on the other side of the House\u2014all very disappointed. Even the audience on the rear benches over there are disappointed. [Bell rung] Oh, there\u2019s the bell\u2014I\u2019ve got two minutes to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003ENo, look in all seriousness, congratulations, Camilla Belich. I mean, the opportunity to actually get a bill through the House is a really good\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c4a8cc6398540e5a4f2f772ada92b29\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: Are you going to cross the floor?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204de8363df29487bb84b19b54d516cff\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m not going to cross the floor. That\u2019s not a very good suggestion. But thank you, Camilla. Look, I really commend you for bringing this to the House, where National has made its case as to why it does not support this bill, and we do not commend the bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022000dc7a8eaac41318d1c2ad0f8fd8a23\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Crimes (Theft by Employer) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; New Zealand First 8; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000710\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002220f1d0983b0e4d219b29a1699d557a8f\u0022\u003EPublic Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of M\u0101ori Land) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b721e053b65549e9a8f75fa79ad6643a\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000713\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 19 February.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002232caf0e7ea0243f49ad2596333f3939a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232caf0e7ea0243f49ad2596333f3939a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Now, could we please have those leaving the House do it quietly, as we\u2019ve got further business to carry on with. In the Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of M\u0101ori Land) Amendment Bill, we were up to call No. 2, the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u00228f86ef58c4f0472387bc90ae7fea83b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f86ef58c4f0472387bc90ae7fea83b1\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think I might be able to help with clearing other members out of the Chamber. I do want to start by acknowledging the member at the centre of this member\u2019s bill, H\u016Bhana Lyndon. I do want to acknowledge that we\u2019ve had a constructive engagement on that. I was very pleased to have a one-on-one discussion, except with other colleagues present in that, so to speak. Also, at my invitation, she was gracious enough to engage with the panel that was conducting a review into the Public Works Act. I trust that was a productive exercise. Seeing as I have the opportunity, I do want to put on record my thanks to that body for other work that they are doing\u2014well, some related work actually, as I\u2019ll cover soon, in relation to reforming and reviewing the Public Works Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI should clarify as well that, being a member\u2019s bill matter, I\u2019m speaking as the National Party spokesperson as opposed to on behalf of the whole Government. Our colleagues and friends of the other Government parties will no doubt make their own position clear soon enough. In the course of my remarks, I will actually refer to some of the changes that we are making as a Government as a whole to improve the situation for M\u0101ori freehold land and M\u0101ori protected land, to correct some inconsistencies or, frankly, some unfairness that have been a feature of the Public Works Act regime for many years, in terms of providing better compensation, better valuation, and so forth for the holders of M\u0101ori land. I\u2019ll get on to that shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI do just want to state reasonably early in my contribution that, while we\u2019ve considered the proposal of the member in good faith and understand certainly where she is coming from with the historical context of the Public Works Act having shamefully been used as a vehicle for confiscation historically, nevertheless the practice in the 21st century is that it is used as a last resort in relation to M\u0101ori land. Therefore, being the case that it is only used as a matter of necessity, we don\u2019t support this bill because that would be to deprive whole communities, including M\u0101ori communities, of the benefit of the public works infrastructure that of course, ultimately, is the reason that we have this legislation in the first instance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIn saying that, of course the overall context is that we have a Public Works Act. And I emphasise \u201Cpublic\u201D because it\u2019s necessary to balance that against the private property rights, be it individually or collectively held. In seeking to achieve that balance, we acknowledge that land should not be taken from a person, be it a legal person or a natural person\u2014entity\u2014other than when it is strictly necessary for the achievement of aims that are good for the community as a whole. Flood protection works might be one example; schools, hospitals, transport infrastructure, and other ways in which we seek to live our lives as a community in a way that represents the best interests of the community. Of course, as I say, we do have to balance out against the private property rights be they individually or collectively held. For that reason, we have such a regime in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EFor those who are not familiar with the Public Works Act framework, the starting position is that agreement is sought with the landowner. If a willing buyer/willing seller relationship exists, albeit perhaps with some reluctance and a sense of resignation or inevitability\u2014it might be that a landowner agrees with the Crown or the local government agency to part company with their land for appropriate compensation, obviously\u2014following that period of negotiation, the transaction would take place. In the event that such agreement is not forthcoming, then there is the compulsory acquisition procedure. It\u2019s got a number of different stages and steps, and that\u2019s for the protection, of course, of the landowner and their private property rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI should note\u2014because these relate to the points made broadly by the member in her bill,\u00A0but also they of course have general application\u2014that if there is a dispute about the compensation amount, then the land valuation tribunal is available. An unreasonable decision maker can expect to face a judicial review application and recourse to the Environment Court, ordinarily\u2014and I\u2019ll qualify that again soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIn the case of M\u0101ori-specific land, M\u0101ori freehold land, or protected M\u0101ori land, as that term is defined in Te Ture Whenua Maori Act, we are sensitive to the fact, again, of the historical context of the confiscation of M\u0101ori land since 1840, and in fact before that time. For that reason, we have acknowledged that, and also the particular characteristics often of M\u0101ori land that make it inappropriate to treat in exactly the same way as general land, as we might call it. That\u2019s why the Government reforms have amended the basis on which M\u0101ori land is valued, so that it is brought up to the status of general land. In my view, that should have been the case, but that\u2019s a wrong that we\u2019re managing to right now\u00A0in 2025. We\u2019re also moving to ensure that compensation can be given for multiple dwellings on the same parcel of land. That, again, has not been the case until now, and that\u2019s disproportionately disadvantaged M\u0101ori land owners, among whom it is more traditional to have multiple dwellings on that single parcel of land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIn relation to reforms announced as recently as a week ago in relation to critical infrastructure\u2014that is, projects to be consented under the Fast-track Approvals Act consent process or roads of national significance\u2014we are saying that the right of recourse to the Environment Court will remain for protected M\u0101ori land, noting its special significance and status in this country, but without removal of that right of incentive; the incentive being that if the landowner, where it\u2019s protected M\u0101ori land, will still have the ability to claim an extra 15\u00A0percent of the value of the land, notwithstanding that the usual time frames might not have been met. That\u2019s to acknowledge the fact that sometimes there are more complex ownership structures or governance structures that apply to M\u0101ori land, be it of a trust-type nature or perhaps a post Treaty-settlement entity, and so forth. But we are deliberately acknowledging the fact that M\u0101ori land is often more complex in its character and wishing to ensure that those who hold the land in those more complex arrangements are not disadvantaged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EFor that reason, we consider then that the bill\u2014and not wishing for flood protection works or other critical infrastructure to be unable to be completed for the good of the whole community, including the M\u0101ori residents within that, we therefore can\u2019t find a way to support this bill. We considered its terms nevertheless, and I do want to draw the attention of the House to new section\u00A04AB(1)(c), and that\u2019s defining the M\u0101ori land protected. This would be within clause\u00A04 of the bill. It says that \u201CSections 4A and 16 do not apply to protected M\u0101ori land other than with the consent of\u2014\u201D, and then paragraph (c) says, \u201Cany other persons with an interest in the land.\u201D, and that\u2019s an extremely broad characterisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIf I understand it correctly, and I think that I do, the interest in the land need not even be ownership; it could be some sort of lease arrangement. It could be an easement, which could be a right of access, or some other way of using the land, even on a temporary basis. It needn\u2019t be a registered interest. In other words, it wouldn\u2019t necessarily be on a certificate of title; it could just be some arrangement that\u2019s made in respect of the land and therefore quite difficult to prove. If this legislation were to pass, it would be nigh on impossible to determine whether someone who has claimed that they have the ability to give such consent would actually do so. While the more general objection to the passage of the bill is based on the fact that, ultimately, we do need that last-resort necessity basis, nevertheless, I think also it\u2019s fair to point out that the kaitiaki of the land, as in paragraph\u00A0(b) of new section\u00A04AB, has a particular meaning, and that\u2019s set out in section 4 of Te Ture Whenua Maori Act. The more broad definition, or lack of definition, of \u201Cother persons with an interest in the land\u201D would be problematic as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EFor all these reasons\u2014and noting the Land Information New Zealand published policy and practice not to acquire M\u0101ori land except as a last resort and that there have been no such takings in the last decade\u2014we do not ultimately support the bill, albeit we recognise the intent and commend the member for her engagement and having brought it forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022e46f2bfbdfcc4bafacb20e23be2972f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e46f2bfbdfcc4bafacb20e23be2972f6\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Tuatahi e mihi ana ki a koe, e te tuahine m\u014D t\u014D kaha ki te k\u014Dkiri i t\u0113nei kaupapa. Rawe, rawe t\u014D mahi. E mihi ana ki a koe i t\u0113nei w\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E[Firstly, I acknowledge you, my female colleague, for your strength in driving this issue. Your dedication is outstanding. I thank you at this time.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWe stand to support the kaupapa tonight. This kaupapa, in my view\u2014and, I\u2019m sure, in others\u2019 view\u2014is one of the saddest kaupapa in our history. When I think about this, I think about all of our activists\u2014if you want to call them activists\u2014or our people who\u2019ve fought for our land, and you\u2019re going to have to go back to 1974 with the M\u0101ori land march, which Whina Cooper led. Our people went on the land march because of this type of kaupapa. This was the kaupapa that drove them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why I say to our tuahine H\u016Bhana Lyndon over there: this is always worth putting up\u2014it\u2019s always worth putting up, if only as a reminder to the House and people listening; a reminder to them of the type of injustices that our people have endured for decades and decades and decades. Tonight, I\u2019m proud to say that our party will tautoko this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWhen I was listening to the previous speaker, the Hon Chris Penk\u2014it\u2019s one of the problems, sometimes, with being in Government. I hear what he was saying, and I can hear some empathy for the kaupapa, which is good, but sometimes I think we have to find our way around every technical problem that\u2019s going. Let\u2019s be honest, when Labour\u2019s been in Government, we\u2019ve gone down the same process, and yet we\u2019ve had people who have fought for their whenua before. You only have to go back and look at how this kaupapa has been used against us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard the Taranaki land claims. We recall the wonderful work of our tohunga like Te Whiti and Tohu. They did really nothing wrong in Taranaki, apart from lift the survey pegs, I think it was, and, hello, they lost all their whenua. It was a disgraceful act from the Crown. Those examples have been replicated right through our history\u2014right through our history\u2014and our people have never known what to do, and land just confiscated; taken away. I mean, we\u2019ve got crazy examples of whenua that was taken for bowling clubs, for goodness\u2019 sake, and all of a sudden, the bowling club doesn\u2019t use it for what it was meant to be. Did they return the whenua back to our people? No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s just such a tragedy that we see, and it feels fruitless and that\u2019s why, even if this does not pass, we put on record our horror and our tautoko for our people who marched in 1974. When I think about this, though, I think about my Aunty Hana Jackson, I think about my Uncle Sid Jackson, I think about my Uncle Moana Jackson, and I think about T\u0101me Iti and Ken Mair\u2014all the activists from all the way\u2014Whina Cooper, Hone Harawira. They all marched and everybody thought it was fruitless, but it wasn\u2019t fruitless. Sometimes you have to fight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ETonight, I want to mihi to a special kuia, which is Patricia Grace, who made a stand against the Public Works Act\u2014you know all about this, Doc, if you\u2019re up there\u2014this special kuia who stood up for her whenua in Waikanae, who said, \u201CNo, no. No, you\u2019re not going to take my land.\u201D I don\u2019t know how old our kuia is now\u2014she must be about 86, 87, or whatever she is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263e801f321f7422d8d870a052aabf6cc\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t guess!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb73c07854a24aa5b6f5d1cd22784ea9\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but she\u2019s one of the most special kuia of this country\u2014of this country. She might be a Labour Party member, I think, Rawiri. She\u2019s wonderful\u2014wonderful. She said, \u201CNo, I\u2019m making a stand here.\u201D She stood up and she won. She won, in terms of the court, and they weren\u2019t able to take her whenua. We mihi to her because she was part of a push to try and change things and change the law. She\u2019s been part of the Green kaupapa; part of the M\u0101ori kaupapa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019m saying tonight is we should never give up because of all the technicalities. When you have a people who are reduced to just 5\u00A0percent of the land, then surely it\u2019s incumbent on all of us\u2014all sides\u2014to say, \u201CCan we do better? Can we change this law? Can we look at this differently?\u201D Tonight, I mihi to our kuia Patricia Grace for her fight, and to all our people who have put their hands up and fought against this Public Works Act acquisition of whenua M\u0101ori for decades and decades. T\u0113nei te mihi ki a t\u0101tou katoa. [I thank us all.] Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u0022fcdea2a9c4504b9c899ee8542c6726a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fcdea2a9c4504b9c899ee8542c6726a0\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to talk to this Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of M\u0101ori Land) Amendment Bill. I congratulate the member H\u016Bhana Lyndon for having a member\u2019s bill drawn. I think it\u2019s a real privilege to be part of any journey in this House, certainly a legislative change one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t want to look in the rear-view mirror of New Zealand\u2019s history. I think we all agree. I know Willie Jackson\u2019s going to spin up with this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c56dddbb05d94e43a82acfe598f83cef\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: I know. Let\u2019s not go backward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296cedd3637d44c0bb9cc15c1fbe9a81e\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but let\u2019s have a conversation about moving forward, sir. I say that to Willie Jackson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EInterestingly enough\u2014and I mean this with the greatest respect to all the members here\u2014H\u016Bhana Lyndon, when she referenced in her primary speech, she referenced to a lot of places that I know intimately well in Northland. There are 250,000-odd people that live in Northland; it\u2019s about 235,000. We all share in the infrastructure, all of us. Every day we come to this House and we\u2019re complaining that there\u2019s not enough money, there\u2019s not enough economic activity, the jobs are sparse and few and far between. Well, I\u2019ll just tease out the logical counterfactual to that if I can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EHow does it work that some of our most remote regions in New Zealand coincidentally have some of our poorest people? We need infrastructure to join the metaphorical hands in that instance. Now, some might laugh, but I know people in the Far North that literally live on a metal road. They\u2019re lucky if they see the postie, they\u2019re lucky if they have a cop, they\u2019re lucky if the infrastructure in the school works, all of which is shared by all of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003ENow, I cannot for the life of me reconcile what happened as being good\u2014what happened in M\u0101ori history was terrible\u2014but if we live in this grievance-a-side reality, we always look backwards. We are never going to succeed on the world stage as a joint nation. We are a group of Kiwis\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5256aa63b95409fab1c9b571c7ff6eb\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022937086d4c4cb4981bdb117a9b636c385\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014who come to this House\u2014Rawiri Waititi laughs. Well, I\u2019m bloody proud of being a New Zealander. I\u2019m not sure if he is, but I certainly am. Let\u2019s join together and take a journey forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EWe knew that we were going to get the heckling, but in their version, they\u2019ve spent all the money on a small group of people. I\u2019d rather spend it on all of us. How do we reconcile that we don\u2019t have the schools, we don\u2019t have the infrastructure? So often Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori are saying, \u201CWe haven\u2019t invested it.\u201D, but how can we do that if we start splitting hairs about who gets what and how?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019ll give you an example, if I may, from an infrastructure point of view. Periodically, private land has to be acquired through the Public Works Act. I know, incidentally, when you have to put a viaduct through a mountain, that\u2019s significantly cheaper than having to go around it or put a tunnel under it. Now, how does that work when a group of New Zealanders\u2014that share in that infrastructure, by the way. Infrastructure is not a racial thing; it\u2019s shared by all of us. We all reap the benefits of infrastructure, but we\u2019ve got to spend significantly more because certain interest groups took umbrage with that. I think that is a factual nonsense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EIf we\u2019re going to move forward as a country, we have to stop looking through a myopic lens, Willie Jackson, in our past, move forward\u2014we have a settlement process\u2014look after the people that were aggrieved and actually start building stuff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b3f49403fed4887975cb4ba90fb7fcc\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll steal your land tomorrow and tell you not to feel bad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224706212deb0b46b69fb1df80e1dac156\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: Otherwise\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de5c1a11fcbf4dd8ac45ac994b8f5c46\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Steal the new farm you just bought.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a96ed38d28cf4aed8fb844864b93aa90\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0101kuta Ferris and others are going to be in this House, if they remain in it, continually complaining that they don\u2019t have enough stuff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EWell, we\u2019ve got a solution. We could actually join hands together and start building kit in New Zealand and stop beating each other up about what happened in our ancestral history 180 years ago. There\u2019s one journey and it\u2019s one journey forward, and I think we should actually celebrate being a New Zealander rather than attacking each other for something as superficial as someone\u2019s race in the investment in infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de7f4273dbba499b90260753cc484a8c\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Nobody mentioned race.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef101e72e3484e85bb2f556818c252ee\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: Nothing to do with race.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7f62c8da76640f1b3f54107cd7200b9\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b873862a2e143d79ed885d2e4d2b739\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CNothing to do with race.\u201D was the comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f21ac649b5574092aaf4e3f0ca37bc85\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The member had resumed his seat. I call Andy Foster.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a097756a4654319ac9d5546fa61853c\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re calling me racist?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022 data-id=\u00229a8d022643cf437c8f792cedf8470340\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a8d022643cf437c8f792cedf8470340\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Do you want to start again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6e9dbfdf3a5421aa0d5ead949e91ae6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve called you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bce5915648e8410391b780472cd50182\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, OK, thank you. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First. Look, we understand the reasons for the bill and we understand the history, but now is 2025, and the advice we\u2019ve already had in this House, just this evening, is that the last time protected M\u0101ori land was taken under the Public Works Act was in 2012. I\u2019ve just asked the Minister how often non-protected M\u0101ori land been taken, and he said it was dozens of times in his time as Minister. No M\u0101ori land has been taken since 2012, but dozens of pieces of land have been taken which are not M\u0101ori land, OK? So let\u2019s just talk about some facts here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EI would also say that M\u0101ori have a very strong attachment to land. We understand that, but that is not unique to M\u0101ori. The word \u201Ct\u016Brangawaewae\u201D is an important word for many, many people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c6c9a6bd3f942b3896728d572fca789\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not your word. Don\u2019t use it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250b67cf4bf574bc98497c7bad8ea2d29\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, OK, so \u201CDon\u2019t use our language.\u201D, then. If you really want to, \u201CDon\u2019t use our language.\u201D\u2014that\u2019s very unhelpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EThe Public Works Act exists to do things which are for public benefit. There is quite a significant hurdle to get through to do that. It exists for good reason to allow public works, and it should be used and is used relatively sparingly. They\u2019re the kind of works that if you don\u2019t build them\u2014if you want to build a road, a pipeline, a stopbank, sometimes it has to go in that location. There is no other alternative. The process under the Public Works Act says you\u2019ve actually got to look at alternatives, and if there is no other alternative, you select the best option. Then you\u2019ve got to go through the process under the Public Works Act of saying: can you buy it in a way which you negotiate with a willing seller? Ultimately, sometimes, you have to get to the stage where you actually have to go through a compulsory process. That is the last resort. With protected M\u0101ori land, the clear evidence we have is it is the last, last resort\u2014something to be avoided if at all possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EI wanted to give you an example of a Public Works Act\u2014and I don\u2019t think this is M\u0101ori land at all; in this particular instance, it\u2019s non-M\u0101ori land. It\u2019s the Mt Messenger Bypass. That was a project which started at something like $80\u00A0million to $90\u00A0million. It involves a bypass of a very tricky bit of road. It\u2019s to build a tunnel through a piece of land, to give you a good piece of roading through there. There is one piece of land at one end of the tunnel\u2014you\u2019ve got two valleys there, one a piece of land at one end of the tunnel, which the person held out against the Public Works Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EThere was an option to buy it. In fact, the Minister for Land Information at the time was Eugenie Sage, who declined to do so. The result of having not done that under the Public Works Act is going to be a project which was going to start at $80\u00A0million to $90\u00A0million but is probably going to be several hundred\u00A0million. The New Zealand Transport Agency have done an incredible job trying to build gantries and cable cars and things like that, to be able to allow the work to happen. It is inordinately expensive, and that is money that is then not available to build other roading and transport infrastructure for New Zealanders up and down the country. That is the cost of a holdout against the Public Works Act. I\u2019ve got to say that what Ministers Penk and Bishop have done in the last week is to say, \u201CLook, let\u2019s incentivise doing deals early to reduce the cost, to reduce the uncertainty, so that there can be more of a willing buyer, willing seller, but you give more money to the seller of land upfront.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EIn terms of M\u0101ori land, it is very regrettable whenever it needs to be taken but does have to be taken. It\u2019s probably worth actually also noting what the Environment Court has to do if there\u2019s an appeal to the Environment Court\u2014and they\u2019ve left appealing to the Environment Court for M\u0101ori land; not for non-M\u0101ori land but just for M\u0101ori land. The Environment Court must find that it is fair, sound, and reasonably necessary. In other words, you only take land when it is necessary for public good, for public works. To take that off the table\u2014and it hasn\u2019t happened at all since 2012\u2014but to take it off the table entirely will just make building infrastructure even harder in this country. It\u2019s hard enough already, and it is one of the things that is slowing down this country. It\u2019s slowing it down for every New Zealander. It is making us all poorer. If these parties over there want to keep us being a poor country, or make us a poorer country, they\u2019re going the right way about it. We need to get this country moving, and part of doing it is to say no to this bill. I do not commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea35c24e4f724f908a6ac9648ad9699f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea35c24e4f724f908a6ac9648ad9699f\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E I don\u2019t even know why this law still exists, to be quite honest; and why this is even a bill. This is not the only bill that we should be concerned with; we\u2019ve got new bills being rushed through this House and eventually new bills will be rushed through this House in the future. We just have to look at fast track. We just have to look at the regulatory standards bill. They\u2019re very similar to what the purpose of the Native Lands Act was back in 1865\u2014became the Native Land Court, eventually became the M\u0101ori Land Court in 1947\u2014where they turned communal land into individual title, then alienated it, and then used the Public Works Act to steal more M\u0101ori land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EWhy? For roads. They still have paper roads out there that belong to the Government and the Crown, still today, that they don\u2019t use. They don\u2019t use the land any more, but it still belongs to the Crown. That was taken under the Public Works Act. It\u2019s still there. Now we\u2019ve got people in this House talking about \u201CM\u0101ori land\u201D, \u201Cnon-M\u0101ori land\u201D\u2014it was all M\u0101ori land, confiscated\u2014confiscated\u2014under the New Zealand Settlements Act in 1863. Then they\u2019re talking about the settlements process where M\u0101ori only get 1\u00A0percent of its total due. They\u2019re going to say, \u201CLook, you\u2019ve got a settlement process. It\u2019s OK, shut up now. You\u2019ve got a settlements process. You\u2019re going to get 1\u00A0percent of your total due, and we\u2019re going to keep the 99\u00A0percent.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EThen we\u2019re going to wonder why M\u0101ori still only have the resources that they\u2019re getting. The Government continues to make its money and its profit off stolen M\u0101ori resources and assets taken through legislation like the Public Works Act, and then they wonder why M\u0101ori don\u2019t want to lose the 4\u00A0percent that they still have. Thank you, H\u016Bhana. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koe for bringing this particular issue back into this House for us to debate. If any sane person looked at the history of M\u0101ori land theft\u2014that\u2019s what this bill is; it is theft of M\u0101ori land. Four\u00A0percent\u2014let that sink in. That\u2019s all we have left, and you still have legislation like the Public Works Act\u2014still own Crown-owned land through the Public Works Act that has not even been used; paper roads, for Christ\u2019s sake. We\u2019ve got them through my iwi. You alienated our lands by turning communal land into individual title. You alienated it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d0d9fa7d690485e8175def9444e52ac\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: Look forward, not backwards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fbfd91bb0f74422bdbd244c2fc4999c\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI\u003C/span\u003E: And not only for the Public Works Act; you alienated it through survey costs. Now, people couldn\u2019t pay it, so you took it. This is the reality of what we are facing here, today, in regards to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4738b25311143928acd66e3b1d20c54\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: Nothing since 2012.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e69ae976ec2c450285a853b325cba4c9\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI\u003C/span\u003E: You displaced us. You confiscated the land\u2014not you, Madam Speaker. The Crown confiscated the land. The Crown continues to steal the land through its legislation that they\u2019re still moving today. This is not 2012; it\u2019s 2025. Fast track will allow the same thing. The Regulatory Standards Bill allows the same thing. To remove Te Tiriti o Waitangi from any legislation allows this Government to open this country up to a free market. That\u2019s what it wants. It wants a free market. It wants international investors and corporate organisations to come in here and rape what\u2019s left of this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b43c15a99a3042b0a2a2ea1b2a8eae7b\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229e413acd4754741a1ab2dddf00cc87c\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely. And we\u2019ve got a guy back here who owns two farms.\u00A0How the hell did you get two farms in the first place? It\u2019s because of bills like this. That\u2019s how you ended up with it. That\u2019s how the Crown has made most of its money: off confiscated land\u2014millions and\u00A0millions of hectares of land. Absolutely. Then you\u2019re wondering why M\u0101ori are impoverished in their own little 4\u00A0percent that they still own. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koe, H\u016Bhana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019ve got here is absolutely a travesty, and you\u2019re a disgrace to the country for not supporting this type of bill and fixing\u2014we don\u2019t want you to apologise, we want you to fix\u2014what your ancestors did to us. We support this bill 100\u00A0percent. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3e683629c4c4bf8a45f4fe097009794\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3e683629c4c4bf8a45f4fe097009794\u0022\u003ERt Hon ADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. I stand in support of this bill. I think this bill deserves to go to a select committee. I think this House has demonstrated very clearly that there is a fairly low understanding of what\u2019s actually going on with M\u0101ori land. The information I\u2019ve heard tonight is rather astounding. We\u2019ve got some member telling us, \u201CDon\u2019t look back; look forward.\u201D I am looking forward. I look forward to the day that we no longer lose land. I look forward to that day. I look forward to the day when this House upholds the promise that it made only last week. It made a promise to Te Korowai o Wainui\u0101rua that the breaches to Te Tiriti would no longer happen. We passed an apology to those iwi. We passed legislation that acknowledged the breaches of Te Tiriti, and here we are trying to protect land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003ENow, we heard from Andy Foster\u2014good on Andy\u2014that there hasn\u2019t been any M\u0101ori land taken since 2012. My question around that is, then, what is the problem? It hasn\u2019t been used in 13 years, so why not make that permanent? Then he said what the legislation says and what we are, effectively, saying to Te Korowai o Wainui\u0101rua, \u201CLook, we promised you we wouldn\u2019t do it, but under this legislation, if it\u2019s really necessary, we\u2019re going to do it.\u201D That isn\u2019t good enough. We need to actually just stop doing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EIn this piece of legislation\u2014I\u2019ll go to the clauses. That is actually an opening for a Government to actually sit down with owners and get them to a point where they\u2019re satisfied that they might want to do a land swap. You\u2019ve got to have other mechanisms. I find it really astounding also that some members are talking about the monetary value of land, and then someone else thinks they know what t\u016Brangawaewae is. When I say, \u201CKo au te awa, ko te awa ko au. Ko te whenua ko au, ko au te whenua.\u201D [\u201CI am the river and the river is me. I am the land and the land is me.\u201D], they\u2019re not just words, and it doesn\u2019t have a monetary value when I say that. It\u2019s not about the money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI would say to the members about infrastructure: ask yourself who in this country has contributed the most land to infrastructure in Aotearoa? Who has done that, and quite often done it because the land has been taken? Every single national park in this country was once M\u0101ori land. Almost every native school that was built in the 20th century was built on M\u0101ori land. They had no choice about it. I can\u2019t help but look back, because I look back and I hope for a better future, and I believe that with this bill, if Government parties took it seriously and actually let it go to select committee, you might get a whole range of views and get to a solution that could actually work. That\u2019s why I\u2019m supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022 data-id=\u00226a9de59c025e41cf98b6d28be1fa2efa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a9de59c025e41cf98b6d28be1fa2efa\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. First of all, I\u2019d like to talk to H\u016Bhana Lyndon and congratulate her on getting her member\u2019s bill drawn from the biscuit tin, which I think is a big lift up for any MP that achieves that here, but also, as has been mentioned by a number of members, for bringing this kaupapa, this subject, to the House to be talked about, because it\u2019s an incredibly important subject, but it\u2019s also a very emotional subject. There are many people who are in this House tonight who have a history with our ancestors, and a very bad history with regards to that. That shouldn\u2019t be forgotten, and I think it\u2019s something that we as today\u2019s politicians have the ability to effect a different outcome into the future. I think that\u2019s something that we should look at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EI note the previous member talking there, the Rt Hon Adrian Rurawhe. We\u2019ve had conversations about M\u0101ori land and there\u2019s a tyranny of history that our country should not be proud of. Today, over the last couple of decades, the Crown has endeavoured to put some of that to right. I do agree with what\u2019s been mentioned by other speakers about the recompense of the wrongdoings only scratching the surface\u2014everybody knows that\u2014and it doesn\u2019t truly recognise what happened in the past, but it\u2019s an opportunity for us as a country to understand, to educate ourselves about what happened, and to endeavour to put some form of mechanism for everybody to move forward and to give M\u0101ori potentially an opportunity, with some of the recompense that happens through settlements, to be able to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EThe Public Works Act, the subject of this particular member\u2019s bill, is, I think, possibly one of the strongest powers actually given to Government: being able to take land. This is not just private land, but it\u2019s also M\u0101ori land. And that power is something that we should be careful with, with regards to what it is. As I mentioned, it\u2019s an incredibly important subject to talk to, and there haven\u2019t been any substantive amendments to this particular Act, which was enacted in 1981, a long time ago, and it\u2019s been sitting there with a lot of flaws in it. We can all give examples of some of the wrongdoings and, if you look particularly at M\u0101ori Land, we can talk about the unfair nature of compensation, like the member Adrian Rurawhe\u2014whether that\u2019s in a monetary sense. I think there is some sense in the fact of looking at other means of recompensating with regards to whenua or something like that as well. I think that should not be underplayed as a potential option going forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EIf may just talk to what I see as some of the big problems with regards to the decision making for much M\u0101ori land. And I can give you the example in Taranaki with Parininihi ki Waitotara This is an entity with a large tract of land, nowhere near what it had originally. It lost a lot through the\u2014well, not the Public Works Act, but more actually the M\u0101ori trustee back in the day and a few things like that. It lost a lot of land. One of their challenges is that today they actually have a shareholding of over 11,000 shareholders and, to tell the truth, they can\u2019t even find half of those people. As M\u0101ori land is governed by Te Ture Whenua Maori Act, it prescribes there that any major decision of an entity like that does require the majority of shareholders to be engaged in that decision. That is literally impossible for entities such as Parininihi. And that\u2019s just one example. I\u2019m sure there\u2019s other incorporations, other entities around New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EAn interesting fact that came out of the M\u0101ori Trustee Te Tumu Paeroa is that their shareholding now is getting to eight decimal places. That\u2019s how small it is. That\u2019s what fragmentation is actually happening to shareholdings. There\u2019s a stack there. There\u2019s something like 2.6\u00A0million shareholders within M\u0101ori land, and we understand that that\u2019s about 5 or 6\u00A0percent of the total land of New Zealand. The other 94\u00A0percent has about the same number of landowners. That\u2019s actually the enormity of the ownership structure of M\u0101ori land. My point is it\u2019s actually very, very difficult for M\u0101ori to be able to get on and do things, and I think it\u2019s something that this Government should be looking at. I\u2019m pleased to hear what the Minister for Land Information said about the work that he\u2019s doing on the Public Works Act. It needs to be looked at. I think it needs to be looked at as a whole and not in piecemeal here. So, H\u016Bhana, I am not able to commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u002295fe4a84ae594ed2801e8b76a69f7a50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295fe4a84ae594ed2801e8b76a69f7a50\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. May I first begin my speech by acknowledging the member H\u016Bhana Lyndon for what is a sensible bill. To those following along in its progress who have an interest in M\u0101ori land and who have had dealings with M\u0101ori land that was subject to either public works takings in the past or in more contemporary settings, this is a really difficult thing for many, many people who are following this closely because of the history associated with public works takings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWhat are we seeing tonight? We\u2019re seeing two major parties who know that any Minister who is responsible for public works takings of any kind treats these sorts of decisions with dignity and some level of humility. Everyone who is affected by public works takings is in that position because they have already had a negotiation with a Crown agency and do not want to sell. These are people at the end of the line. These are people who want and need their land because it\u2019s their farm, because it\u2019s their home, because it\u2019s their business and they do not want to see that go out of their ownership, because they have some long association with that. It is a serious thing to need to get to the end of the line as a Government, but there are some situations in which that is warranted, and that\u2019s been acknowledged by speakers from both the National Party and Labour Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EInstead, we have two minor parties of the right who are using this as just another culture war, as just another decision that they will never have to make because they will not be in charge of this as a Government Minister who has to look into the eyes of the people that they are taking land from that means something to them and telling them that the Government can and so it will. No politician in this House will return to their electorate and make a speech like that. No one here who represents their communities will treat this so flippantly that they would say, \u201CYeah, the Government can take your land and so we will.\u201D No one believes that this is something that Governments want to do to people, and certainly not in a situation where you have M\u0101ori landowners who have faced 180 years of public works takings which have not only dispersed traditional communities, taken away a traditional land access, and meant that people are landless and wealthless in their own homes, in their own communities. That is not an outcome that anyone wants to see. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThis bill has some problems with it, but these are things that we can resolve at select committee. This is an opportunity to get around the table in a cross-partisan way and have a discussion about what are the bottom lines here, because anyone who is in charge of this will have some bottom lines. No Minister is going to run roughshod over M\u0101ori land or general land in this way, so there are surely some ways that we could be updating this law to actually reflect what are the negotiations going on now. If we had a bill like this\u2014and everyone knows this\u2014it would force Crown agencies to negotiate in a different way. There wouldn\u2019t be no bridges. There wouldn\u2019t be no viaducts. There wouldn\u2019t be no overpasses. There would, in fact, be a coming together and a meeting of minds between landowners and Crown agencies. Imagine that\u2014imagine that\u2014where Aotearoa New Zealand was a place where M\u0101ori land owners could negotiate with the Crown. That is looking forward. The ACT member said that that was looking backwards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI think that all of us should be aspiring to a New Zealand where, in 2040, two hundred years after the Treaty, we can expect that Government agencies will not only sit down with M\u0101ori New Zealanders but Government agencies will sit down with landowners\u2014all landowners who are affected by this\u2014and have the kind of negotiation that we expect of a Government that represents people. That is not using the provisions of the Public Works Act in a way that targets people and where people feel like there is a history of land loss and dispossession because of this Act and so are coming to the table with that in their minds. This doesn\u2019t just mean a loss of land for some people; for some people, this means a history of a Government that has taken and taken and taken and given them nothing back. Paper roads where roads have not been built. Schools which are now no longer schools and service some private land which was given by iwi for that purpose of education. Land that was given to churches where a church no longer lives but supports the income of that charitable church.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThese are the public works takings that that side of the House\u2014and it isn\u2019t the National Party\u2014are defending in this history. This doesn\u2019t have to be another culture war\u2014not this one too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022 data-id=\u0022af54491e906e4f26b021d54c042bdd50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af54491e906e4f26b021d54c042bdd50\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to add my contribution to this first reading of the Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of M\u0101ori Land) Amendment Bill. I too, like my colleague David MacLeod, would like to begin with commending you, H\u016Bhana Lyndon. Thank you for the passion with which\u2014what I\u2019ve noticed actually\u2014you do everything. I\u2019d like to acknowledge you and I\u2019d like to acknowledge the whakaaro behind this bill. I\u2019d also like to acknowledge the history that we\u2019ve touched on, the history that has led to a lot of the pain that underpins the discussions we\u2019ve heard tonight\u2014history that I\u2019m learning a lot about since moving to New Zealand Aotearoa, and I\u2019d like to acknowledge that as I embark on this speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EI guess if our party and our Government weren\u2019t embarking on what we\u2019re saying is an overhaul of the Public Works Act, to be honest, and you always get honesty from me, this would be a very hard speech, but I\u2019m comforted, H\u016Bhana, by the fact that we are embarking on this overhaul of the Public Works Act. Again, I repeat, while I acknowledge the true and authentic intent behind this bill, the National Party, as we\u2019ve heard, is not supporting this bill, but we are embarking on what we see as major reform of the Public Works Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to, if you don\u2019t mind, Madam Speaker, just highlight what kind of comforts me tonight, some key elements of this reform. I know that Arena Williams just mentioned: imagine a situation where we\u2019re actually talking with the landowners. Part of the reforms that we\u2019re going to make is there will be mandatory mediation for compensation and disputes between parties. Part of the reforms, as well, is that we\u2019re going to be refining the role of the Environment Court, just to streamline objections and streamline them fairly and efficiently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EAgain, I\u2019d like to say that I\u2019m comforted that I feel that the reforms that we\u2019re making with the Public Works Act are taking a balanced approach with the backdrop of the horrendous history when it comes to M\u0101ori land. I know that the compulsory acquisition of whenua under the Public Works Act in the past has contributed to the deeply perturbing erosion of ancestral whenua, disconnection from cultural identity, and these longstanding injustices. They cannot be ignored. With the balanced approach that we\u2019re seeking to achieve with this overhaul of the Public Works Act, I do believe that the Government is respecting history and is acknowledging the pain\u2014a lot of the pain that took place\u2014but there\u2019s no doubt about it that we also want to ensure that we can pave the way for economic growth, for infrastructure development, and for prosperity for all communities as a whole.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EAs I said, the public works amendment bill\u2014well, I didn\u2019t say this, but it will be introduced in the middle of this year. It comforts me, as I don\u2019t, unfortunately, commend this bill, H\u016Bhana, but there is work being done. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022580fac63e64e4eadb6362c96fc0e85c9\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I just remind the member to use another member\u2019s full name when you refer to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201b5296148df45929f64f5898e5ea572\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE\u003C/span\u003E: My apologies, sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022 data-id=\u0022d569516f6f2f49e2a7e058f4739fdb20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d569516f6f2f49e2a7e058f4739fdb20\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I stand here with no comfort in this House. I stand here offended on behalf of te iwi M\u0101ori at what has been shared in this House by members who are historically illiterate\u2014historically illiterate\u2014to the loss of te iwi M\u0101ori. It\u2019s not historic; it\u2019s today. N\u0101 wai i teka [What a bunch of lies] it\u2019s historical; it\u2019s today. Patricia Grace stood for her whenua only 10 years ago. This isn\u2019t from the time of the signing of Te Tiriti; this is today. We have got quarries that still have our whenua, e hamahamangia ana e te K\u0101wanatanga, [that are being quarried by the Government,] today and our people want those quarries back. You took it, you used it, then you passed it around yourselves as the Crown and then you never gave it back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e77ab5cb11442d992eaf0f85c4e0b84\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The Speaker did not do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245c5e0a3a23e45aba9d0722a3b168951\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON\u003C/span\u003E: We are a people under siege right now. Te iwi M\u0101ori are under siege. The provisions of this review that the Minister for Land Information has undertaken ignored the advice of officials. His officials said, \u201CInclude Te Ture Whenua Maori Act. Have a good look at it. Let\u2019s be comprehensive.\u201D He ignored the advice and kept it narrow for fast-track public works, for a fast-track approach to speed it up, because that\u2019s the focus of this Government. It\u2019s not about meaningful engagement; it\u2019s about singling out the Minister\u2019s ability to have the power to say yes or no. That\u2019s what\u2019s happening in this reform. That\u2019s what this Government is doing to the people of New Zealand, let alone te iwi M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EDo you know how expensive it is for M\u0101ori to go to the Environment Court when you can\u2019t even get a dollar together to live peacefully on your own land, the little bit of land that we have left\u2014less than 5\u00A0percent\u2014and then we have to go and fight you in the Environment Court? How on earth is te iwi M\u0101ori to even stand against the public works takings on our whenua? You have no idea of the burden that te iwi M\u0101ori suffers because of this Act. This is lived experience for our people. Do not think that this is a historic experience and don\u2019t think that a Treaty settlement is going to make it any better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EJust like Matua Adrian has shared, we apologise in one breath and then we take again. We stand here and we mihi and we give these speeches to iwi and say, \u201CHere\u2019s your one to two cents in the dollar.\u201D Then we take again. We come through the next week and we\u2019re saying no to meaningful engagement and giving M\u0101ori the ability to say yes or no to public works takings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EWhat is wrong with fairness? What is wrong for the people of Taranaki to come to the table and have a meaningful negotiation and make an informed decision, resourced completely, to come in and negotiate a pathway through, and if they don\u2019t agree, that you stand down, you actually take your road or your railway or whatever else you\u2019re doing and you go around the block? That\u2019s what the Crown has done for P\u0101keh\u0101 for generations. P\u0101keh\u0101 landowners got their land, they kept it, and M\u0101ori suffered. How many marae and urup\u0101 do we have in this country that have State highways running right through them? Come to \u014Ctaki. Come to Waiomio. You will see State highways right through our w\u0101hi tapu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EDon\u2019t think that this is not something that M\u0101ori are passionate about. We will fight. We will fight the fast-track public works. We will fight it because it\u2019s our land and it\u2019s very little that we have left. When you don\u2019t have anything, that\u2019s all you\u2019ve got. And when you talk about infrastructure and how we all benefit\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa6487d77fc14f2cafe9ccb03160cfff\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Please don\u2019t bring the Speaker into your debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c17aac1929e74586bcdacd05bd17d887\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not bringing it. Anyhow, if you\u2019re talking about infrastructure, go and talk in P\u0101nguru. Go and talk in the back of Ngapipito. We have been neglected for infrastructure for generations. We don\u2019t benefit from infrastructure and investment in these rural M\u0101ori communities, because it\u2019s so rural that there\u2019s nothing else there of benefit for general New Zealand. Why is it that it has taken so long to fix our roads after Cyclone Gabrielle? Yep, you\u2019re going to come through and you\u2019re going to put a State highway right through us, the four-lane highway. Nau mai, haere mai, Northland Expressway. How much whenua M\u0101ori is going to suffer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EI stand here and I am deeply concerned for what\u2019s going to come, because whenua M\u0101ori is precious. Whenua M\u0101ori should be something that we cherish and come to the table as meaningful Te Tiriti partners and say yes or no. Why not send it to the select committee? Why not allow us to come in and provide our voice and input into this and find workable solutions? We have a Government that is anti - workable solutions with M\u0101ori, and that\u2019s a crying shame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221a6f3aac0e074f2eb595744dff875d6e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of M\u0101ori Land) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e00ab1691c314fcaafdab96daff82e99\u0022\u003EEmployment Relations (Termination of Employment by Agreement) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226a8982b4d895444f94f81c462b9f7ab8\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022 data-id=\u0022f73fca8d12844665851722be406f851a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f73fca8d12844665851722be406f851a\u0022\u003ELAURA McCLURE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I move, That the Employment Relations (Termination of Employment by Agreement) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Education and Workforce Committee to consider this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EFirstly, guys, I would like to thank my team because this has been a huge effort. For all of you that know, being a first-time MP and having a member\u2019s bill in the tin, the chances of it being pulled are quite rare, so I\u2019m pretty excited to have this be pulled and I want to acknowledge my team and my staff that have really helped us on this. I also would, firstly, like to acknowledge the business community, the various different chambers of commerce across the country that I\u2019ve spoken to and heard their advice, and also the employment law experts that I\u2019ve been talking to. Thank you so much for all the advice and encouragement you\u2019ve given to me in helping shape this idea to come to life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EToday marks an important step forward, a step towards making the employment process in New Zealand simpler, fairer, and more practical. This bill fosters a collaborative approach, empowering employees and employers to approach the sensitive issue of employment termination not as adversaries but as partners. It\u2019s about making sure that when an employment agreement needs to come to its natural conclusions, there is no unnecessary stress placed on both the employee and the employer. Instead, this allows for them to deal with these situations quickly and fairly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EAs someone who has owned a small business and as the ACT Party small-business spokesperson, I know\u2014and I\u2019ve heard from the voices of countless businesses, owners throughout the country\u2014of the very real obstacles that these businesses in New Zealand face. The challenges have been made clear: the ongoing effects from COVID, rising costs, and tight margins that all contribute. However, the current employment system represents one of the biggest barriers to business success, productivity, and small to medium sized enterprises (SMEs) taking a chance on employing somebody new. The complexity, the time, the stress, and the process can feel like mountains to climb, but this bill is part of a broader effort to streamline our employment processes and make them more balanced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EWhat is the problem we have here and what is happening? Firstly, I\u2019d like to talk a bit from a business perspective. What is happening out there is the difficulty that businesses find when they get themselves in a situation where they have an employee and, for whatever reason, the communication or the relationship is breaking down\u2014and there can be various things that can happen in this situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EUnder our current law, we don\u2019t have a lot of opportunity and options to approach somebody to discuss potentially ending that contract. What is happening out there is employers are using the likes of restructure, redundancy, performance review, which are really good processes and we should have these processes but they are using these to move people on because they\u2019re unable to have a conversation about what it might take in order for them to leave when that relationship has started to break down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EThis is incurring all kinds of different problems at the end. Personal grievances (PGs), whether that is because the process has been not followed quite correctly or because the process was followed correctly but six months of a potential restructure, if you have to go to work and work together, you\u2019re probably going to end up in a PG, and then you\u2019ve got the other side of things. If you\u2019re an employer and you\u2019re going through some of these processes, whether you\u2019re being made redundant, especially in a small team, you quite often know that this is possibly not what is happening here but you\u2019re going through these processes. It\u2019s extremely distressing and dehumanising for everybody involved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EWe have processes in place. We have things like the mediation process if there\u2019s a dispute. We also can enter non-prejudice. But all of these things take an awful lot of time, they cost an awful lot of money, and they have the same outcome at the end. Why can\u2019t we say that, actually, an employer and an employee can come together to discuss what it is that\u2019s happening within the employment and how they can move on, and, in doing so, that employee may be rewarded with a monetary sum and all kinds of other things which I\u2019ll discuss.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003ELet me be clear: this will not undermine workers\u2019 rights. It\u2019s about creating a system that\u2019s fair and transparent for both the employers and employees. When this relationship breaks down, as we all know, I would say everybody sitting here tonight has either been an employer or an employee, worked in a workplace where employment relationships are breaking down and where the dynamics are changing in the team. We need manageable processes in place to be able to deal with these quickly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003ENow, let\u2019s dive into some of these key provisions in this bill. This bill allows for employers to initiate what\u2019s called a \u201Cprotected negotiation\u201D with employees about the potential termination of their employment contract. This process is designed to be confidential so both parties can have an open and honest discussion about the employment without the fear of this being used against them in a potential PG dispute. This is particularly useful in situations where a business may need to make difficult decisions such as downsizing, restructuring, or moving people on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EOne of the most important features of this bill is the introduction of a settlement agreement. In cases where appropriate, the employer can offer an employee a settlement agreement that includes compensation in exchange for the employee\u2019s agreement to end their contract. The terms of the settlement might include a monetary sum, a reference, or other mutually agreed upon conditions. The employee would also waive any potential personal grievance claims against the employer in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EFor the settlement to be enforceable, it must be in writing, signed by both parties, and must include a recommendation for the employee to seek independent legal advice before signing. This ensures that employees are fully informed of their rights and the implications of this agreement. Importantly, any discussions or offers made during the negotiation process will not be admissible in future legal proceedings related to the employment relationship. This is crucial because it ensures the confidentiality and encourages both sides to negotiate. This is actually happening, but it\u2019s happening quite far down the track when people are in the non-prejudiced situation. Of course, if there\u2019s evidence of dishonesty and illegal activity, predetermination discussions could actually be used as evidence in court, but these would be the exception rather than the rule.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EThere are several benefits to both the employers and the employees under this bill. For employers, it makes the process of dismissal less stressful, more efficient, saves time and money on legal costs and potential PG claims down the track. What I\u2019ve heard from New Zealand businesses and especially our SMEs is that PGs have become the cost of doing business here in New Zealand, and this is not acceptable. It creates a more harmonious work environment by offering fairer processes for everybody involved. Within this framework, employers can feel more confident when hiring new staff, knowing there\u2019s clear and straightforward processes for managing terminations when needed. For employees, this bill offers the chance to bypass a stressful, time-consuming process that leaving a job can have, and it won\u2019t damage their reputation. This is particularly important in niche markets, where going through a large process\u2014whether it\u2019s performance review, whether it\u2019s going back on a PG\u2014your reputation can be damaged, and we don\u2019t want that to happen and occur.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EBy allowing them to negotiate a settlement at the top end, this can give an employee certainty about leaving the workplace through things like financial compensation\u2014something that is particularly important since many employment contracts nowadays don\u2019t include redundancy pay. This is more so if you\u2019re in a low to middle income job. The process is designed to be mutually agreed upon so the employee can withdraw at any time if they wish to no longer proceed. Even being offered to have this conversation, they need to agree to it in the first place. This ensures both parties have a fair opportunity to make the decision that is best for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003ESimilar legislation has already existed in the UK for over 10 years. We\u2019re seeing global trends towards more flexible, mutually beneficial termination processes. This bill is in line with that trend. It empowers both the employers and employees to reach an agreement on the best way to end their employment relationship on terms that actually work for both sides.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EThere have been a few questions that have come up during the process of this bill: firstly, does it create a power imbalance between the employer and the employee? The answer is no. While employees may initiate this settlement process, employees have the option to walk away at any time. They\u2019re still entitled to all the rights provided under the Employment Relations Act 2000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003ESecond, could an employee raise a personal grievance down the track for having this conversation? No, and I think that this is a key, core message about this bill. It\u2019s allowing people to have that conversation without risk of a PG coming back on you for having that conversation or approaching the conversation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EFinally, what about time frames, etc.? The bill does not prescribe specific time frames for the negotiation process. This is something that, should this bill pass, would be further explored by a select committee. There are other provisions that the select committee may want to include, and that could be around cool-down periods for signing negotiations. It could be what is considered a time frame. In the bill currently, it says, \u201Ca reasonable time for notification\u201D and \u201Creasonable time to consider a contract\u201D. These are things that I\u2019d be really keen for a select committee to hear from those that are working within businesses, from those employees, about what would be reasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EThis bill is practical. It is much-needed reform. Like I said, the current system isn\u2019t working. The processes that we have in place are there to be designed to be used for when they\u2019re really needed, and we need something else. We need another tool in the kit, so I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002299a0cd5891e245e893a1a0344a5b1fdb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299a0cd5891e245e893a1a0344a5b1fdb\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, this debate is interrupted and is set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031276ab541e440940e4b9585675217b10bd000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.59 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"