"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220abcd632065f4cdba6d7d857ce82afe1\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 13 MARCH 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221d8e3ae3a7a4462599409b33595fd10c\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 13 MARCH 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022371ac74372e84424828ba29f3aa95d39\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220eb9e5b8ba394aaabd2e2898abe2343a\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca7dc705da594fca9955b1e401f61276\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca7dc705da594fca9955b1e401f61276\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (Deputy Speaker):\u003C/span\u003E Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022868e0f2a89924e3b8a9067831cf09b1c\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022590b4718a4b54bf19725d16a3e980d86\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002288f7429fb85b42fa957f3117e9a21ab7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288f7429fb85b42fa957f3117e9a21ab7\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Today, the House will adjourn until Tuesday, 25 March. In that week, the House will consider the third reading of the Land Transport (Drug Driving) Amendment Bill, alongside other Government business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u00223e6e5dc90e75488c82aedb5757057aff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e6e5dc90e75488c82aedb5757057aff\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E To the Deputy Leader of the House: does the Government have any plans for any extended sittings or urgency over the next three-week sitting block, or has the Government finally got a plan to ensure its legislative schedule is sorted?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00224eb18e48ce6b45a2998a3aa24c9022c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224eb18e48ce6b45a2998a3aa24c9022c2\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I know the member is excited about a three-week sitting of the House when we return on 25 March; he will have to wait and see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f1b6afa75e9b4b479a5cb05fc1e3bdc7\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, And Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c5dd32e633844209b787a756f1b3b78b\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, And Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002295fbb2684e754e4992eb3b65b15ddc1a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295fbb2684e754e4992eb3b65b15ddc1a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A petition has been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022ddc7a21e5a474f85a300b2e52362773d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ddc7a21e5a474f85a300b2e52362773d\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Petition of Ian Sizer requesting that the House urge the Government to address the invasion of Madagascar Ragwort.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002289310c29ec5f4ffc9ff48d1fa36dfd5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289310c29ec5f4ffc9ff48d1fa36dfd5f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That petition stands referred to the Petitions Committee. No papers have been delivered. Two select committee report has been presented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00229a4ba83875ef42f48dc72b3bc710eff5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a4ba83875ef42f48dc72b3bc710eff5\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReport of the Governance and Administration Committee on the 2023-24 annual reviews of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet and the National Emergency Management Agency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Social Services and Community Committee on 2023-24 annual review of Heritage New Zealand Pouhere Taonga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022398fc4b10b56479e88b9f9242b3cbc86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022398fc4b10b56479e88b9f9242b3cbc86\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Clerk has been informed of the introduction of a bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00227586d733b0904d16bb362160414b0fba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227586d733b0904d16bb362160414b0fba\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Resource Management (Prohibition on Extraction of Freshwater for On-selling) Amendment Bill, introduction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00221bb6d6d56a894fbb91b9bd0504f57fbe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221bb6d6d56a894fbb91b9bd0504f57fbe\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That bill is set down for first reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e1575b34adb945a4a105e21c18ee276f\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f9dbd85be129431686ab1ced5ece542b\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022131a700e46da47d5b9c1ee39a8a05f79\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Economic Growth\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022 data-id=\u002246c92e478f874f58a3fa7bad2abdade2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246c92e478f874f58a3fa7bad2abdade2\u0022\u003ETAKUTAI TARSH KEMP (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014T\u0101maki Makaurau)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Economic Growth: Will she ensure that her proposal to scrap the living wage requirement in Government contracts for cleaning, catering, and security guard services will not result in pay cuts for these workers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u002277ccf6887c1c46048b8db7400c596b76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277ccf6887c1c46048b8db7400c596b76\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Economic Growth: Yes, I can assure that\u2014it\u2019s the law. Existing contracts have to be honoured.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e2da4c8f90643428da223964fdad8c5\u0022\u003ETakutai Tarsh Kemp\u003C/span\u003E: What message does she have for the workers, like those in Parliament who clean her office and toilet and keep her safe, when she scraps the rules that ensure they are paid enough to live?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242ff9a7b519040f1867f0db4803bc6d4\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: What I can say is that employers that are currently employing Kiwis\u2014and hard-working Kiwis\u2014across this country will still be bound by the terms of employment agreements negotiated with their staff and unions. And, as we step back from this issue, I think it is important to acknowledge that the consequences of these proposed changes remove complexity and duplication, and actually make it easier for New Zealand businesses to expand and to grow by winning Government contracts. That is good for New Zealand workers, and that is good for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcd5baa3f4324ca3a697e972e46dd52d\u0022\u003ETakutai Tarsh Kemp\u003C/span\u003E: What is the response to cleaner Liam Shaw, who said, \u201CThe Living Wage basically allows me to survive. Before the Living Wage came in I was really struggling to afford groceries, especially considering how high my rent was, and the Living Wage has allowed me to thrive in what would be seen as a very basic sense.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286ce6fec13d949b2a2150ae0937ed12f\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, what I can say to that individual is that we have a Government that is relentlessly focused on economic growth and reducing the impact of the cost of living on those New Zealanders. We are working very hard for individuals\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7739c18459f4334a9798632010e8040\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hold on. Hold on! Stop! That has to stop. That\u2019s ridiculous. Just yelling across the House is not an interjection; it\u2019s just rabble-ous behaviour. Is there anything more that the Minister wants to add that might be useful for the House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218385559a16b4050bb097641ef5d3c10\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022802c70e949fd4eb4acc0971e4e00f403\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Good. I agree.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d98d7cb0ef7149b596687a2b0602f21c\u0022\u003ETakutai Tarsh Kemp\u003C/span\u003E: How does your Government expect workers to survive when you are systematically stripping away every safety net, cutting wages, reducing benefit, sanctioning the vulnerable, and making life harder for those already struggling; is this what is meant by reducing red tape, submitting those workers to the whip of the State?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e4b9e88fdb84d5d8497b817081af630\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. This is meant to be question time. Questions that are framed with a question that end up with an answer all at the same time and then go on to the second and third question should not be allowed. That\u2019s not what a supplementary question is about. I think these rudimentary things are getting worse and worse in this Parliament and we need to change that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4921dcf1e8943c2b6c5f9b5495b3e72\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, thank you for your advice. I certainly appreciate it. But can I also point out that questions that are\u2014the Standing Orders for questions are mirrored by the Standing Orders for answers. So I\u2019m happy to apply the same criteria in both directions. Ask the question again\u2014in a way that brings it into line with Standing Order 390, I think it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de8415615c31479587d833331a9a3d73\u0022\u003ETakutai Tarsh Kemp\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Government expect workers to survive when you are systematically stripping away every safety net, cutting wages\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227bba0fe0a8d41e787671e4ca4fc117b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, you can\u2019t make a political statement like that, with all due respect. You can ask a question about the programme; you can\u2019t speculate about the consequence of a programme. So have a think about how you might ask it a different way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cee09d5afb8b4676a50ff496d6c326b6\u0022\u003ETakutai Tarsh Kemp\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Government expect workers to survive when you are stripping away\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255c74bb035624d91b0d7c9022bfe6311\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. No, no, you can\u2019t\u2014I\u2019m sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221550dd04dcaa4b49a2c86edc3ec818ae\u0022\u003ETakutai Tarsh Kemp\u003C/span\u003E: How does your Government expect workers to survive?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022152e4a1f84ed4cb686ad9e6183a55cf1\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, what I can be clear about is that this is a Government that is focused on economic growth, which will benefit all New Zealand workers. That is the critical point. The changes which we are making here will remove duplication and complexity. It will make it easier for New Zealand businesses to get New Zealand Government contracts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265a02ae0ba024e6aa7da1987e3a2b7b8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f5e25dc9b414611ba732c1fbc768f72\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: That is good for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c615a80975d642d9b0267a7f02b40260\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Good. That\u2019s enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291455a7dcb7f420c8039e6804a04fbbc\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: That is good for\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022263a8286d9a9428c91a600c61bf123c3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is quite enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c280233369bd4d2490ba932ac050e233\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014New Zealand workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287159319935c4256946744890382cf78\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s enough. Is there another supplementary question? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e04c919d024f47a988b5d7c0b2f5b252\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Revenue\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022 data-id=\u0022223844a8ebd7418397b7818f925b0711\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022223844a8ebd7418397b7818f925b0711\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National\u2014New Lynn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Revenue: What recent announcements has he made on the foreign investment fund rules?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u00229b02841a18f74f3c92ce82c0da9754b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b02841a18f74f3c92ce82c0da9754b4\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Well, New Zealand should be a place where talented people want to invest and grow businesses, but right now our tax rules are making that harder. Good news: we are fixing that. Yesterday, I announced the Government\u2019s proposed changes to the foreign investment fund rules, including the addition of a new method to calculate a person\u2019s taxable foreign investment fund income. This change will remove a tax barrier that is stopping highly skilled migrants and, importantly, returning Kiwis from investing here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de8f052c89e24a1ab995d0b3f5f1a3fd\u0022\u003EPaulo Garcia\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the change so critical to facilitating foreign investments into New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa3d46a3ee234627b6ed0ea3b281bd40\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the current system hits new migrants and returning Kiwis unfairly, especially those in the tech and start-up sectors where still some migrants, particularly US citizens, risk double taxation. We want New Zealand to be an attractive place to live and work in and these changes will make that easier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6d0117c369043e1b7fe7ee8340ce549\u0022\u003EPaulo Garcia\u003C/span\u003E: What reaction has he seen to this announcement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b598cfff3064462ba52b42a23c688fa\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: We are hosting the investment summit in Auckland this week and we have had extremely positive feedback from the tech and startup sectors. Graeme Muller, the chief executive from NZTech, said that \u201Cthese improvements in tax rules are exactly what we need to make New Zealand more attractive for both investors and global talents.\u201D Similarly, Robbie Paul, the CEO of Icehouse Ventures, has said \u201Cthis is a stand-up example of Government engaging on a genuine issue so we can all create \u2026 brighter future[s] for New Zealand[ers].\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218050df2b7d940448cec4d0e310c6a40\u0022\u003EPaulo Garcia\u003C/span\u003E: What plans are there, if any, for existing residents?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2ad563162a34f31ad51e845ba35a880\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Government is looking at broader foreign investment fund reforms, including how these rules affect residents, including whether the tax thresholds should be raised and how we can support investment visas. We want to unlock investment and growth, and I\u2019m looking forward to having more to say on that later this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002270114b34bcb043c1b4169c771e4d93eb\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u002291705586e01c4df5947f8cb30cacbb0a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291705586e01c4df5947f8cb30cacbb0a\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00225e982179db7b48ea857045604e10e54a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e982179db7b48ea857045604e10e54a\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022084bc384bd014369b6b02b6ffa0f7931\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with National MP Dr Vanessa Weenink, who, when voting against the Crimes (Theft by Employer) Amendment Bill, said, \u201CWhen you make something a criminal offence, does it really deter people?\u201D, or New Zealand First MP Mark Patterson, who, when voting for that bill, said, \u201CThere should be consequences for a crime. We fundamentally believe that, and this bill does provide that deterrence factor.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243276c149f6846739a990bb7615bda5b\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the great thing about this side of the House is that we allow people to think for themselves. We don\u2019t have the old rule 242, which says that the party\u2019s conscience is your conscience, and, therefore, I tend to agree with both members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227158167b7ace47388e2cdb3a47a07697\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with New Zealand First that people should be held accountable for their crimes or is he satisfied leading a National Party that is soft on white-collar crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d07a7ce80ff4041bfec99ec63eaeef5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a point there. Have a go at asking the question. I won\u2019t take one off you, but that is not a question the Prime Minister can possibly be responsible for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cefdd295fa64b0cbe6c10c94c28389b\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with New Zealand First that people should be held accountable for their crimes, or is he satisfied leading a Government that is soft on white-collar crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0c6786d856046148a7f904fca63effc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, strictly speaking, you can\u2019t make that last statement either. Given that I\u2019ve been pretty hard on the M\u0101ori Party\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9ca79473bcf44b5801febd296b5e990\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I can handle it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab23e534177542208ccb0a7638d37530\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I know the willingness of the member to answer any question that\u2019s ever asked of him, but I think, just playing by the rules\u2014once again, just ask the question without the last bit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230326cad5f2442b3a384f6a19b848f3b\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with New Zealand First that people should be held accountable for their crimes, or is it just some people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0b8d7d7d6f5445d9de62da0f348998a\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: We have always agreed, on this side of the House, that people should be held accountable for their crimes. Otherwise, you\u2019d get a thing called anarchy and the utter destruction of democracy and freedom and liberty. And, on the other side of the thing on the question of white-collar crime, look at the person who took on the wine-box inquiry, who, against all odds, won. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286df66e251674df5982f6200b33504e9\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Should security guards and cleaners employed at Parliament continue to be guaranteed a living wage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dd075e252c2489d8dcefab28c2c9ba8\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the reality is that they\u2019re on a contract which does just that. The contract cannot be changed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8e35a33d9f848efbf89a6443b677479\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: If security guards and cleaners in Parliament are to receive a living wage, shouldn\u2019t all Government contracted security guards and cleaners be provided the same assurance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225711e1afae3641d68d619d794f5c344a\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The reality is that the people we\u2019re talking about have all got representation. They\u2019ve got agencies that work for them, and someone that worked and was a delegate for the most lowly union in this country, the Labourers Union. We know something about that, and we\u2019ve got a record, of course, having gone for the minimum wage at a higher level than any other party. Now, my point is, what we want to do is make sure that the conflated mess that is this matter is tidied up so that people can get on getting employed and getting paid properly. And they will be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204f0bcc51684433b8e9d27bc6b2f57fb\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Is it appropriate that those security guards should now be paid minimum wage at the same time they have been asked to perform the Police\u2019s job with enhanced powers to perform citizens arrests, therefore putting them in harm\u2019s way?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4f02166839149e38553af93c0562078\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if the member begins with the premise that is false, then she\u2019ll get the false conclusion that she has just arrived at. That is not the case at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ef5d75becb042e4ba73b8e96c30e018\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Why is this Government focused on reducing incomes for security guards and cleaners and defending employers who steal money from their workers at a time when Kiwis are struggling to put food on their tables?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213f66da9cf7e4d9bbb8c124d8aff5906\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll begin with\u2014the Government is not allowing employers to steal from their workers. That\u2019s clear, if the member did the numbers, where things are going on that matter. So that\u2019s number one put right. And the other matter is to do with their present, existing contracts, which will be maintained. So why this alarmism? We do not understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fb887da4f5c840239bba3d37b3cd496a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Oceans and Fisheries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002211ad13fb082848ec9aa5275ff55021be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211ad13fb082848ec9aa5275ff55021be\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries: What steps, if any, has he taken to guard against regulatory capture of the Ministry for Primary Industries by New Zealand\u2019s commercial fishing sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee5cc6bf3d22493988e790a97dae1a61\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee5cc6bf3d22493988e790a97dae1a61\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Deputy Prime Minister) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries: Regrettably, we have to reject the premise of the member\u2019s question. The inference that the Director-General of the Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) and the deputy director-general responsible for fisheries are anything other than public servants of the highest integrity is deeply insulting and just plain wrong. However, the Minister has set a clear expectation that MPI engages with a wide range of stakeholders in formulating its advice and managing fisheries, and that takes appropriate compliance action when and where justified.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227561cdc61b944cd7865685c7e5dffa55\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain why, after a New Zealand bottom trawler owned by Westfleet dredged up protected coral triggering a fisheries closure, Fisheries New Zealand refused to release coordinates of the incident to environmental organisations, despite providing it to industry, only for the Australian Government to provide the information?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f7f9caa9b1b454dabfcd4f4135cf565\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Again, the member misspeaks and is mistaken. The coordinates in terms of the total area were given. Of course, what they were seeking was the exact area where it happened, but that\u2019s not the request that they made. So if the Australians were being helpful, fine, but the reality is that the original request was met and accepting they were expecting the ministry to somehow do all the work whilst they went there\u2014Greenpeace\u2014and showed off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb9463f493dd49e5b3cfd337877d40c6\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Will he commit to working with Australia on the creation of a marine protected area to allow the region to recover if it\u2019s found by a Greenpeace survey of the region that areas critical for marine life have been decimated by New Zealand bottom trawlers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022091c5a4e6ad846169a5b915a8070cc83\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, clearly, we will not be relying upon the Greenpeace survey; we\u2019ll do our survey ourselves. At the moment, that area is isolated, not being used, not being fished for that very reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b260b73c7294cebbd9da2145886f761\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister or his officials attend the Australian Government and WWF research symposium which aims to create a high-seas marine protected area in the location where the coral bycatch took place, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261743a1e15e74ef295e69b1defcfcd39\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I suppose the first thing that one would expect to answer that question was that we got an invitation. So we\u2019ll check it out and see what the answer is when we get an invitation. We don\u2019t just bluff our way in and front up and bust through the doors like some political parties that I know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022071c838525984ec89f6999c95beff253\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Given New Zealand is the last nation on earth bottom trawling the South Pacific, what\u2019s more important: the ability of the industry to harvest the last remaining orange roughy in the region or the integrity of vulnerable marine ecosystems?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022683ce4cb3130489890e432e98d3c5d3c\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The reality is that it is almost four decades since this country set a standard with respect to fishing quotas and fishing bycatch, and all of the areas around the world that have a fishing interest have always been in admiration of this country\u2019s position. Nothing has changed, but we will not start at shadows; we are measuring the stock and allowing the appropriate ratio of fishing to take place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002219ebebde25c94b70b50072f5aea4d5f4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Workplace Relations and Safety\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022922de6839a6b4a96acaed5400859700f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022922de6839a6b4a96acaed5400859700f\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: Does she agree with Brooke van Velden\u2019s statement, \u201CI think a lot of people in New Zealand do live on minimum wage and we have to allow people to make ends meet\u201D; if so, how many Government contractors are currently paid the minimum wage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u00228820d326aaa54f9282c066601b975c6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228820d326aaa54f9282c066601b975c6d\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context in which it was made, which was an RNZ interview titled \u201CACT: need more jobs rather than raising min wage\u201D. If the member had listened to the full context of the interview, she would note that I\u2019m not in favour of large increases to the minimum wage but policies that support an economy where people have jobs to go to rather than people shutting up shop. I want to make it easier for business owners to actually take a chance on someone and give them a job. In response to the second part of your question, this is not my ministerial responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231a3c07524c9480cb8ede50978f89671\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: How does removing the requirement for cleaners, caterers, and security guards to be paid the living wage help to increase the incomes of some of our hardest-working New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5beff7ff0ae4f59a86b09b1f271820a\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: It is not my responsibility to be talking about procurement contracts of this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266755b3f96fb4fd48158d03f1f9242e2\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Does she support New Zealand First MP Andy Foster\u2019s public commitment to maintaining the living wage; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022457a713e5c5c42749b8bbd89336da0a7\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: Like my colleague Winston Peters has articulated quite nicely in the House, members on this side of the Government are entitled to their individual opinions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022406c19c84360499386cedd2912226e09\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: What impact will cutting workers\u2019 wages by over $370 a fortnight, during a cost of living crisis, have on child poverty, homelessness, and demand for food banks, and has she received any advice on this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a60fb95a1f7e491fbd12072ddbd9abcb\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for her question. In regards to things like the minimum wage as a floor for employee rights in New Zealand, I\u2019ve had advice that the minimum wage is not a good redistribution tool for poverty reduction. This Government, alongside other previous Governments, have used more targeted responses to reduce poverty\u2014things like the accommodation supplement, things like Working for Families, FamilyBoost. Having the minimum wage standard is not a poverty reduction tool; it is simply a floor for wages in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272610ec018694a46a46efe014cfdbbe9\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Does she believe that employers intentionally withholding wages from workers constitutes theft?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6c4b4da12c34936befa692eaa009421\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: What I do believe is that we already have civil law in New Zealand that allows for people to be paid correctly by their employer. The Labour Party\u2019s member\u2019s bill is not necessary for people to be paid correctly. But what I\u2019d also say is perhaps the member would like to have some conversations with people that I\u2019ve been speaking to recently\u2014for example, one cafe owner that I met, just in this last week, who sold her car and her husband\u2019s bike to keep her own employees employed. There aren\u2019t just good and bad people; there are people trying to make ends meet who are workers and business owners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d810baa989e4b5abe84b7cb811aa8ca\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Is the minimum wage enough for workers to make ends meet, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022149fb6f5945c4534a0efaf7437c7cc46\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: I can\u2019t talk about any particular individual circumstance that any particular person may have in this country. People\u2019s lives are far too complex to try and make that simple. But what I can say is that it\u2019s very widely understood that the minimum wage is not a poverty reduction tool. We have policies across this Government that even previous Governments used, like Working for Families, like the targeted accommodation supplement. We should be there to help people in desperate need, but not to have across-the-board policies where we can target people who genuinely need it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae1328ccb7ed40bc95a9e063725cf454\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just make the point that the Government should not be interjecting on their own Ministers who are answering questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cac7bb1da854b76879f9c30ee73f91e\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Does her Government\u2019s Going For Growth strategy just apply for unemployment queues and lines for the food bank?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295560c931e934394b31497c960e3d668\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not responsible for the Going For Growth strategy. That question is best responded to by the Minister for Economic Growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267e43554f5cc4ca4b702cdab64d26fb4\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Minister as to whether she shares the view that anyone who goes to a worksite and puts it in a fair day\u2019s work, five days a week or longer, is a worker, not just one group of people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225075ddb8905b4700a0389d14bdf57d86\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: I do agree. I have huge respect for people who get up every day and provide for themselves and provide for their families. There are a lot of very, very hard-working Kiwis in this country, and I respect all of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002285f88ed0c02648419e2ebd987a274e0c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022 data-id=\u002256331dd4991e4bb58460d40b21ccebf4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256331dd4991e4bb58460d40b21ccebf4\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (National\u2014Napier)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Health: What recent announcements has he made on refreshing New Zealand\u2019s eating disorders strategy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022217cc00d51ce490cb9b8bb0ff417e536\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022217cc00d51ce490cb9b8bb0ff417e536\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E As part of Eating Disorders Awareness Week, I recently announced that the Government would be refreshing New Zealand\u2019s eating disorders strategy. The refreshed strategy will have clear and prioritised actions for implementation. Other focuses will include identifying where further efforts across eating disorder services are required and improving our understanding of eating disorder data. It will also include opportunities to grow and utilise the peer support workforce more. We know we can do a lot better in supporting individuals and their families who are struggling to get support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e1fe647779847c8a820b9e519a9c67e\u0022\u003EKatie Nimon\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the eating disorders strategy need to be refreshed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d383563175f2433194763b938697c912\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Around 2,000 people access support for an eating disorder every year, and approximately 1,500, or three-quarters, of these will be young people under the age of 25, but we know there will be more need. New Zealand\u2019s strategy has not been refreshed in 16 years, with the last strategy published in 2008. It is long overdue for an update. A 2021 review by the ministry showed that demand for eating disorder services has risen significantly since the strategy was first published over a decade ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d42e9401a8b4354a1cfba502986b6fc\u0022\u003EKatie Nimon\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has the Minister seen from eating disorder groups?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0de232cae444b2bb84cefa435ef979c\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Sarah Rowland, co-chair of the Eating Disorders Carer Support New Zealand, said, \u201CThe strategy will be a significant step towards improving prevention, early intervention, treatment accessibility, and long-term recovery support.\u201D, while Rebecca Toms from WithLoveED said, \u201CI just wanted to say thank you for paying attention to the critical issue of eating disorders in New Zealand. You know it means a lot to families like mine to see this issue finally receiving the recognition at a national level.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bb3c22e4041495ba612962f061feabc\u0022\u003EKatie Nimon\u003C/span\u003E: What other feedback has the Minister seen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3a700c9824d4bbe8e2c62711cb048b6\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: I have a message by Bex, the mother of a child with an eating disorder. She said, \u201CThis makes me so happy. As a parent who almost lost her 16-year-old son to an eating disorder, the fight I had against the system almost broke me. I\u2019m happy for families and people in the future who will get the support earlier.\u201D Lisa from Christchurch messaged me and said, \u201CThis is so overdue. So very glad this is happening. There are way too many families struggling to care for loved ones with this disorder.\u201D And Joseph messaged me, saying, \u201CMore people suffer from eating disorders than we realise. A lot of men as well. This is good news.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022149bd159930c439cb7f65c03c9b52810\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Agriculture\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u00223f9c034032e4439e9cf341ecd92c7533\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f9c034032e4439e9cf341ecd92c7533\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Agriculture: Does he agree that trade access to overseas markets is a key component of protecting the export performance of New Zealand\u2019s agricultural sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb58bfce59434260b4d56461231d214d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb58bfce59434260b4d56461231d214d\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG (Associate Minister of Agriculture) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Agriculture: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262cce879193b40759176c924e2df31b7\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with advice from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade on the Gene Technology Bill that \u201CThe regulator should be required to consider trade and market access risks in assessing organisms for environmental release. This is due to the complex assurance processes for gene technology in key export markets, and the unpredictable nature of the international trading environment where gene technology has been historically controversial.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296b15c65d99f49368f5eae3c2180f52f\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: Like any of the other 26,000 submissions on this bill, I do expect the select committee to assess robustly all of the points that have been made by various submitters, and I look forward to the report back from that committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249f467f3b66740ab9362970b25432edd\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: What specific actions will the Minister take to address concerns from the Dairy Companies Association of New Zealand: \u201CIn addition to variety of country requirements, there are significant customer requirements for demonstrating that products and/or supply chains are non-GMO. These requirements vary greatly. None the less, New Zealand dairy exporters at present easily meet these requirements by reference to the fact that the New Zealand environment is, effectively, non-GMO.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0d175274b8c423c8558223cb7070246\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m advised that, actually, there is no evidence that the liberalisation of gene tech rules will affect New Zealand\u2019s trade, given that many countries that we trade with are already trading in GE products, including, of course, Australia. I\u2019d also note for the House that the co-existence of organic and GM crops will need to be managed, and the question that the select committee will need to consider, one would assume, is as to whether that is managed through the proposed gene technology Act or by other mechanisms such as industry self-regulation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abbafca59aa24446b629ec5523176c3d\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: What specific actions will the Minister take to address Fonterra\u2019s recommendation that risks to trade and market access should be included in the bill\u2019s architecture, given the potential for the significant impacts gene technologies may have on New Zealand\u2019s business and their ability to access international markets with their products?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3fc513fdf2b4aa4ae2c32d428b4aff2\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, as has already been canvassed, the bill is currently being examined by the Health Committee, so I would expect that any specific actions taken by the Minister would come about as a result of the committee\u2019s report and, indeed, its recommendations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222db1724622d54300af6d027512540ec5\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: How concerned is the Minister at the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research finding that the environmental release of GMOs in New Zealand could reduce exports from the primary sector by up to $10 billion to $20 billion annually?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022198b2c57cc8b48b2a7092a1694c65905\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware of that report, but, as I have already canvassed in the House, the co-existence of organic and GM crops already exists and, indeed, will need to be managed. Again, we do look forward to the committee\u2019s consideration of the submissions, and we look forward to their report and recommendations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7fb939a6b8747329c4ef1fa024afb04\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: How seriously is the Minister taking the calls from the primary production sector\u2014including the dairy industry, Federated Farmers, Horticulture New Zealand, Beef \u002B Lamb, the lobster and p\u0101ua industries, Seafood New Zealand, New Zealand Winegrowers, and the seed and grain companies\u2014for trade and market risks of GMOs to be addressed in the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf0a4800b26e4ad2b8df2130b505fb52\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: Of course we take very seriously feedback from the industry, which I think is why the industry has demonstrated such confidence in this Government as opposed to the previous Government, but what I would also note for the House is that the value of New Zealand\u2019s agricultural products is based on more than just gene technology. We have an incredibly high reputation for high-quality, safe, sustainable food and fibre, and I would also note that, on this side of the House, we place a lot of faith in the commercial decisions made by companies. Those that might choose to develop and market a product using gene technology will be doing so because there is a demonstrated commercial return. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002237a67baa1e3c417f918b4ea1cada6c02\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Small Business and Manufacturing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7db8b55887e4a0786a7a09fa378e6ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7db8b55887e4a0786a7a09fa378e6ec\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD (National\u2014New Plymouth)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing: What is the Government doing to support small businesses and manufacturers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbb395eaeaec4569847d509ff4137cc5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbb395eaeaec4569847d509ff4137cc5\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing):\u003C/span\u003E This Government is working hard to grow the economy, particularly for small businesses and manufacturers. This includes the promotion of e-invoicing. The productivity gains, the efficiency gains, and the protection against fraud are all key reasons that we are doing so. Recently, a key milestone of 50,000 businesses across New Zealand was reached for the uptake of e-invoicing, and we are asking\u2014requiring, in fact\u2014Government agencies to play a leadership role in adopting that technology, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e38565be2dc45398c715dd6776710c4\u0022\u003EDavid MacLeod\u003C/span\u003E: Is finding skilled workers a challenge for small businesses, and what is the Government doing about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022303422b1423b4f02995b96062dab7985\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: It can indeed be a challenge, and we know that access to talent is a key enabler of small business and manufacturing growth. Our key three pillars of ensuring that they have opportunities in this space include reform of the education system, with a strong emphasis on numeracy and literacy; in the vocational education space, improving and rationalising that sector for much more efficient outcomes; and, where needed, targeted specific gaps can be filled with skilled immigration. So I acknowledge and thank colleagues Stanford, Simmonds, and Stanford, respectively, for their work in that space. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8b5675f47b342d1b59542f5bec0c1b0\u0022\u003EDavid MacLeod\u003C/span\u003E: What impact will the recent proposed changes to procurement rules have on New Zealand manufacturers? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd1bc2a5f83d48b59ae782b55a387f45\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: The proposed new rules for Government procurement could be a game-changer for small businesses and manufacturing, with some $50 billion worth of Government contracts annually having an easier path to comply with the procurement rules. For example, removing some 24 specific hoops to jump through and replacing them with a more general economic benefit will be huge. The manufacturing sector accounts for 8.4 percent of GDP in this country and employs around 10 percent of our workforce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6f01dbf089c4fc7868aa1e087520dc0\u0022\u003EDavid MacLeod\u003C/span\u003E: How will the investment summit benefit small businesses and manufacturers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3ae53d63fa24065acdcc5f2cf6344f2\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: There are a couple of key ways that it will help to increase economic growth in this country\u2014which, as you know, is this Government\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba1fcff57fe94dd994d4c20dd54c3caf\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Space. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efe1bab864e74def98f0731a716322f8\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014watchword. One is to unlock opportunities for that extra capital to invest in plant and equipment and, in turn, be able to grow and export back out to the world, and, second, by investing in infrastructure, we\u2019ll make it easier and quicker, as well as safer, for firms, farms, and families to be connected with those goods and services. And, for bonus point number three, I\u2019m reminded by my colleague and friend Judith Collins\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226659142865fb45faa69e50f965ce114d\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Space. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c233dee673c94cfb949009b15a24f402\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014space. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022426c2ffc56e4456f81a7cc4b13a6b0e2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Rail\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1f278ff08c74dd4ba908e40c301d1d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1f278ff08c74dd4ba908e40c301d1d4\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Rail: Has the Government received any alternative proposals for the procurement of new Cook Strait ferries from the private sector; if so, how many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00221d04629aeb434845a1f98bdd12d6af13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d04629aeb434845a1f98bdd12d6af13\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister for Rail):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, we have had strong interest from the private sector, and we thank them for that\u2014for their contributions, equities, and ideas. As for any details, the House will need to wait until Cabinet has been briefed, but let me remind the member that we have a task to do to tidy the issues of a $3.1 billion project that started with a Government contribution of $400.1 million, and then Treasury began warning the Government, the past Government, in 2023, that this project was going to blow out to over $4 billion. So we\u2019re working on it and very soon, in a few weeks, we\u2019ll give the member the answer he wants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fa5f72bb9b2403abdb98f99eba82b7d\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Will he seriously consider alternative options from the private sector for the procurement of ferry services, or does he still consider private sector involvement \u201Cjust ridiculous\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229eb0a60cf15844cfaefdbee944aad191\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The reality is we\u2019re looking at every option all around the world, from, dare I say it, China, Korea, all the way to Scandinavia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a0a5255ee58478fbe0b40ba9618449f\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government\u2019s Cook Strait ferry service be privatised under his watch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281598feff8734ba0a8e9db8e6d654371\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I think I can give you a firm promise: under my watch, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb4ed4d3e701429cbcf198c951512535\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Will his Government pay for the required portside infrastructure upgrades that will be needed for any new ferries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022973d4e3bba404feba3e070d1df02079d\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the reality is, that\u2019s a fascinating question and I\u2019m so pleased that very sensible member asked it, because that\u2019s what the problem was with the last contract: for every $1 we were going to spend on the ferry, $4 was going to the infrastructure, and that was impossible. So what we\u2019re doing here is looking at the infrastructure of the future, and he will know that Port Marlborough has got a certain contribution to make, the Wellington port has got a certain contribution to make, and we\u2019re looking at how we best can make this work, reusing as much as we possibly can, which our forefathers had in mind when they were insightful runners of this Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228daaacf39ca64a50834a1802781d1db8\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: What communications, if any, has he had with Hyundai since his meeting with them on 28 February 2025, and, if so, what were those communications about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6881a5e06db4de6bb31ffc615621760\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I wrote a letter thanking them for their gracious respect in giving us their time and their expertise for a very, very meaningful discussion, which adds to the quality of information we have in making a decision as a Cabinet going forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d4e927435c34b3985cc2b52697ee864\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with David Seymour that \u201CPrivate investment will bring private market discipline which will lead to a better and more cost-effective service in years to come.\u201D, or will the privatisation of the ferry service be another disaster, this time with him at the helm?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d9094caefe14bbdbc03eb329eca2814\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: It is not the history of somebody that\u2019s at the helm ever being in charge of a disaster\u2014quite the consequence; pointing out disasters, yes, but not starting them. In respect of Mr Seymour\u2019s comment, that is a view, but then if you have a look at the Singaporean Temasek model, where they\u2019ve used the best of business expertise in the interests of the nation and their savings programme, it has been a brilliant success and I do think that there are members on this side of the House who believe we need it here in our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223ca019cb2f714cf0a328e3093876d340\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u002299d67129c82945e5af2d2cd83b8d3886\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299d67129c82945e5af2d2cd83b8d3886\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Health: What recent announcements has she made regarding upgrades to New Zealand\u2019s air ambulance fleet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022 data-id=\u0022bda5e5c90c894ca98fef400e4c4afd73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bda5e5c90c894ca98fef400e4c4afd73\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday, I had the pleasure, with the Minister for ACC, Scott Simpson, to announce that a brand new air ambulance helicopter is now in service for the people across the Waikato, Coromandel, and King Country. This is great news for the region and the hard-working local MPs who have so strongly advocated for an upgraded helicopter. This new helicopter offers improved safety, a more reliable service, better capacity to respond in bad weather conditions, reduced maintenance cost, greater fuel efficiency, and better operational performance. Mr Speaker, if you\u2019d indulge me, I would also like to acknowledge the unwavering commitment of Central Air Ambulance Rescue Ltd and the trusts, organisations, and individuals who collaborate so effectively to deliver these critical services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a31b8129fdec43ceaf18b8cb9991fa7f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s fine; I\u2019m sure answers will be concise from here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022597075d808fe45d7af0c3e00d69aeb42\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: Why are upgrades to the air ambulance fleet needed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cbd259f5bb74795abe294853097f403\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: The helicopter fleet is currently the oldest in the developed world. This creates sustainability and reliability risks and means that our excellent paramedics, doctors, and nurses providing treatment to patients have had to do so in constraints of the existing fleet. In addition to our ageing fleet, emergency air ambulance helicopter services have come under increasing demand, which has grown more than 20 percent over the last five years. In the last calendar year alone, the emergency air ambulance fleet flew 13,309 hours, an average of more than 36 flight hours each day. Meeting this growing demand and ensuring patients can receive the best care in their time of need is essential and requires a fleet that can spend more time in the air.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4447188111048349f953052055ce5d9\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: When can New Zealanders expect more upgrades to the air ambulance fleet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226828d864dd334a288c4f60cf24855a69\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: This Government has allocated an additional $14.7 million to be invested in this to enable air ambulance service providers to replace nine ageing helicopters with newer ones. On top of the brand new helicopter announced yesterday and one that\u2019s been operational in Tauranga from mid - last year, at this stage, we are looking at a near-new helicopter to be operational in Auckland from mid-April, and three more helicopters are expected to arrive in New Zealand by the end of May. Announcements about these upgrades and further ones will be made in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002257b4329f451e4162b26eb90b8b38e901\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Hunting and Fishing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022 data-id=\u002210991eb30b85481fb440d8e7885b529d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210991eb30b85481fb440d8e7885b529d\u0022\u003EMILES ANDERSON (National\u2014Waitaki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Hunting and Fishing: What work has the Government done to support the hunting and fishing community?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u002267cb3cc4fb1541f8a2a2dc4671debded\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267cb3cc4fb1541f8a2a2dc4671debded\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER (Minister for Hunting and Fishing):\u003C/span\u003E As a Government, we are strongly committed to supporting the hunting and fishing community and maximising the value of hunting and fishing as a cultural and economic resource for New Zealand. As an example, at the start of this month, the Government approved three new commercial upland game preserves. These are Mangakahia in Whang\u0101rei, Lagoon Hill in southern Wairarapa, and Grange Hill in the mighty South Canterbury. Game preserves currently constitute a $7 million per year industry, and this announcement will provide economic growth and a further boost to the sector. This is just a small part of this Government\u2019s ambitious hunting and fishing work programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ed0e949dcce4f5f83e31106485dfb98\u0022\u003EMiles Anderson\u003C/span\u003E: How else is this Government supporting the hunting and fishing community?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260c33a836c7c46c394f1a4c93d7f74ad\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER\u003C/span\u003E: Since becoming the new Minister for Hunting and Fishing, I have met with all 12 Fish \u0026amp; Game regional councils around the country as well as Fish \u0026amp; Game New Zealand, the Game Animal Council, New Zealand Deerstalkers Association, and many other passionate hunters. Their views reinforce the importance of progressing work on things like herds of special interest, recognising valued introduced species as a resource rather than a pest, improving access to public land through the Access Charter for Recreational Hunting and Fishing, investing in huts of recreational importance by supporting the community hut programme, and supporting and modernising Fish \u0026amp; Game New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206c2024b2d064940b8fee7a79f1dff15\u0022\u003EMiles Anderson\u003C/span\u003E: What are the Minister\u2019s priorities in his portfolio?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226dfc4a6789746c1a41fdf68e61fbfdc\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER\u003C/span\u003E: As Minister for Hunting and Fishing, my number one priority is to make it as easy as possible for New Zealanders to go hunting and fishing. Our hunters and anglers are one of our biggest conservation resources, which is why we have invested significant funds in partnering with hunters to undertake animal management programmes throughout New Zealand, particularly in the South Island. We will never be able to manage our conservation land and improve our biodiversity without the work and support of hunters and fishers. I am proud to be the Minister for Hunting and Fishing. I am looking forward to working with Opposition spokesperson for hunting and fishing Scott Willis on how we can further support the great work of hunters and anglers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222029e6202ec04907a9fb5c7e2115040a\u0022\u003ECameron Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dea28b514f634f14b460e5a7a3c6c213\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on\u2014hang on. Sorry, just a minute. The primary question gets three supplementaries and then we go to everyone else. I\u2019ve held that rule right from the start.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eec72a79f4e345fba06a5b6dc6420806\u0022\u003EMiles Anderson\u003C/span\u003E: How can people get involved in hunting and fishing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255e7afd2a8a940b4802bee532b9f25e8\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER\u003C/span\u003E: From today, game bird licences go on sale across the country and the duck shooting season starts on 3 May. I know that the member, alongside myself, will be keen to get out on the maimai. Also starting this month is the roar, with the opening of the red deer hunting season. I wish all hunters a successful season and I also encourage everyone to stay safe and follow the seven rules of firearms safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1f7be99ccaa40e680ecd834b05226fc\u0022\u003ECameron Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: Assuming the Minister is acknowledging the vital role that hunters play in conservation, does he agree that granting them greater involvement in decision making would lead to better conservation outcomes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa76a785c07a4aa78a365b0cdaa38ccb\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely. The contribution that our hunting community makes to conservation is invaluable, alongside the contribution by our anglers, who also undertake wetland restoration and fisheries maintenance across the country. I want hunters at the table, and I am very keen to explore how we can ensure that hunters and anglers have a say in managing our valuable conservation land. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290d471b44f2e4142a73184a7de3818bd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t know what the excitement is, but the Minister is doing quite well without that assistance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202ea6507b32545e0b5ad11e8784c8380\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I don\u2019t know about that!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022642c942fa36d47bfa994f5c76d26a0a5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b3a0be31d684bb999255d63ef97698a\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Does he support New Zealand Police retaining the Firearms Safety Authority?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f62717446e04ca8bb4a026cb8673e30\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m sorry, that\u2019s not a question for\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0f07d9e7d22470c87a16aee9b3b156e\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: He has responsibility for firearms safety. The question is about supporting the firearms community. That\u2019s a clear question that\u2019s in line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022827e57e346d04874b75248466d85e320\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a question to the Minister for Hunting and Fishing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbf0d132437e4bfda7bba67ac5552c4c\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: They use guns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e6c6476966b43f1bd3895cddc6cd18a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Now, you might like to talk about other aspects of his portfolio, but I\u2019m not sure that that is one of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221272df27ed6146298b754404ab675288\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a key question the hunting community wants to know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa98523bbcff437abba4b51d79bfd2b8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I know a lot of people use guns for hunting\u2014thanks very much. It doesn\u2019t make him responsible for something that another Minister has portfolio responsibility for. Question 12. [Interruption] When we\u2019re ready.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002299ef92b54b184116a9d6f8cb0e9676c7\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Commerce and Consumer Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00229bc85586bd8d4525b3232e62ab4466d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229bc85586bd8d4525b3232e62ab4466d3\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs: How will the Government back up its promise to ensure fair prices for Kiwi consumers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u00224919d1477e5a43858f759fb78d38a3a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224919d1477e5a43858f759fb78d38a3a6\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Increasing competition is a key pillar of this Government\u2019s going for growth plan. Having better competition means that we can bring down the cost of living for Kiwis and lift living standards. That\u2019s why I\u2019m progressing an ambitious review of New Zealand\u2019s competition settings, which includes, amongst other things, the first major review of the Commerce Act in more than two decades. Getting these core settings right is important as greater competition will lead to more innovation and fairer prices for all Kiwis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f32f748f0e684067ab628894918811c7\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Will this Government take action on the big banks charging Kiwis more right now, after 18 months of posturing and as a defiant ANZ, recording its most profitable quarter ever, is making $10 million a day from New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c114c5f500e45a2b13da683b4107a99\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: As the member will well know, the Finance and Expenditure Committee is currently conducting an inquiry into banking, and the member will need to just wait and see what recommendations come from that committee. But she can be well assured that this Government is keeping a very careful eye on banks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220840468d741744e482d106a11055ef4c\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: When will Kiwis see their power prices coming down, given that they are going up next month?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5b79677a60541ed90731859df8e9118\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: Power prices are crucial to New Zealanders and, as that member will well know, we have an infrastructure shortage in terms of power generation. So this Government is intending to make it easier for new generation to occur, particularly renewable generation. So the key to this question is in fact getting electricity supply right and the value right for all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d759777631c24a94b4f8c2676ff53a13\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Is there anything in the Government\u2019s plan for commerce and consumers that will make a trolley of groceries cheaper?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022774575c01a204748be0dd63eadb4c256\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, this is interesting because the member also will be well aware that my predecessor had the supermarket duopoly firmly in his sights. But the member will also be very clear that I have proactively, in accordance with the Cabinet Manual, recused myself because of a conflict to be involved in any matters relating to supermarkets or groceries. Those matters will be handled by none other than the Hon Nicola Willis, and I can think of no better Minister to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cbe0b5e2eae4c7196114e55041022ab\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Has Air New Zealand hiked fares for some routes by up to 300 percent in five years, and, if so, why have Government MPs blocked Labour\u2019s select committee inquiry into airlines? [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022461985eae7494bf9a8a47f0829292921\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, just a minute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea7bb21762c84c67877b43ad5ffa4b5b\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, airline prices\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262b81f9145ea4613a1fea895226c31e9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hold on. It\u2019s not part of your responsibility. Do you want to ask the question in a different way?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f871cf3555eb45f781bb391c190a7714\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Has Air New Zealand hiked fares for some routes by up to 300 percent in five years, and, if so, would he support an inquiry at select committee into airlines?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297a2169c6e124899a24a493eaf1005a3\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: The pricing mechanism that Air New Zealand uses is, of course, a matter entirely for Air New Zealand. That said, like all New Zealanders, I\u2019m looking forward to greater competition on our airways and the opportunities that that will provide for lowering airfares and making better value air flights for all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022694d46a1767b4ba692871ca7ba136f36\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Why is he sitting back while New Zealanders are charged more by the banks, they pay more for their power, and they can\u2019t get around the country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b403fc86f5b14ec6a662b823934401f6\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s very difficult to take a lecture from a member of that party on issues relating to that sort. They had six long years to attend to these matters. They saw inflation out of control, they saw costs out of control, and the net result was that New Zealanders had a crisis of confidence in that Government. Our Government is standing up for all New Zealanders. We\u2019re getting the economy going, we\u2019re going for growth, and we\u2019re back on track. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7ad0a0732d94b168030d785b6b35782\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7ad0a0732d94b168030d785b6b35782\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure everyone\u2019s feeling a lot better for that little blowout. I\u2019ve asked members on a daily basis that when we come to the end of questions, those who have to go off to other activities around the place to do so quickly, quietly, and without conversations. I\u2019ll invite you to do it now, and I mean without conversations on the way out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI declare the House in committee for further consideration of the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2024\u201425, Emergency Response, and Remedial Measures) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ae159b5a38724c3c86f302654c7fe6b1\u0022\u003ETaxation (Annual Rates for 2024-25, Emergency Response, and Remedial Measures) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220231a3a6f2b34d9c8c184df8eb4140d1\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000211\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 12 March.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a6bef65e6c8a4c058ea1dbaf4f9c0120\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendments to Income Tax Act 2007 (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00229b232aa971ab49dcb274827cdef04dcb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b232aa971ab49dcb274827cdef04dcb\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, thank you. It\u2019s a pleasure to be back talking about tax again. Now, as I recall\u2014just a quick reminder\u2014we were debating this last Wednesday. We got a little bit of a way through Part 2 of this bill on last Wednesday night. We spent just a very short time on it yesterday\u2014just half an hour. We are going very systematically, clause by clause. And, in the latest discussion, I think, on last Wednesday night, Barbara Edmonds was discussing clause 16B. Yesterday afternoon, Megan Woods was discussing clause 20, and I was discussing clause 21.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, I do want to return to clause 21 because we had only just started on the debate on clause 21. If I just get my handy copy of the bill out, it turns out that in clause 21 we\u2019re dealing with employee share schemes. These are the schemes\u2014for those people who have only just tuned in\u2014where a company can allocate shares to its employees. It\u2019s a form of remuneration, but it\u2019s also a form of ensuring that employees have a stake in the company. It contributes to, I suppose, employee motivation in some ways. It could do that. It\u2019s particularly important in start-ups and the like. There\u2019s a whole lot of reasons for using it, and I asked the Minister whether this was one of the measures for growth in this bill, and he said, \u201CYes, it was.\u201D That was a handy thing to learn. I think I suggested that we would be wanting to know, in particular, whether the Minister of Revenue had quantified the impact on growth or whether there was any quantification of the expected positive impact on the economy. I\u2019d hope that the Minister has had time overnight to, perhaps, get some information from his officials about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EMoving on from that, I want to ask another question about clause 21. It\u2019s a different question, and it\u2019s looking at the actual amounts in clause 21. Now, it says that in section CW 26C(2) of the Income Tax Act, amended by clause 21(1), in paragraph (b), $5,000 is going to be replaced with $7,500, and, in paragraph (c), $2,000 is going to be replaced with $3,000. So there are two\u2014well, there are four numbers floating through these changes, but they relate to two items. I would like the Minister to clarify a couple of things here. The first is what the two items there are. As far as I can see, one relates to maximum value, and one relates to maximum benefits. So I do want to understand how that gets picked apart and what the concepts are floating in behind that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe other thing I want to understand there is, actually, why the increase from $5,000 to $7,500 and why the increase from $2,000 to $3,000. Now, if we look at those, they\u2019re both a 50 percent increase\u20147,500 minus 5,000 is 2,500. That\u2019s 50 percent more than the previous amount. And 3,000 minus 2,000 is a difference of 1,000\u2014an increase of 50 percent. But the thing is that the explanation that was given is that this increase was taking account of inflation. Now, that seems odd, right? It just seems odd because, as we know, inflation doesn\u2019t come out in nice round numbers. There must be some calculation in behind this as to what the appropriate amount was to lift the thresholds to, and if it is an adjustment for inflation, there must have been some sort of looking-back at what inflation was since this clause first went into place and, therefore, at what the amount was going to be. But I can guarantee that without even looking at what the inflation might have been over the period this was in place, it wasn\u2019t going to be an exact 50 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to understand just how that 50 percent increase was arrived at and its relationship to inflation. I\u2019m going to guess, given the diligence of the officials at Inland Revenue, that it was not just a matter of someone sticking their finger in the air and that there is some relationship to the inflation change over time. But I would like to have a little bit of an explanation as to what that relationship is and how those particular figures\u2014those nice, neat, tidy, round figures\u2014were arrived at in order to ensure that we got that kind of outcome. So if the Minister could address that, that would be very helpful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022d00cba51b6ae4b7fb7e33b4497353f4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d00cba51b6ae4b7fb7e33b4497353f4c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the next call, I forgot to say some of the magic words, so I will. Members, the House is in committee on the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2024\u201425, Emergency Response, and Remedial Measures) Bill. When we were last debating this bill, we were debating Part 2\u2014for the benefit of those tuning in at home. Part 2 is the debate on clauses 4 to 115, \u201CAmendments to Income Tax Act 2007\u201D. The question again is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd9f488dde6e4a859f0544193a67ba1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd9f488dde6e4a859f0544193a67ba1f\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. For all those sitting at home watching, we\u2019re now 5\u00BD hours into this committee stage of this bill, one which had a full select committee process, and they\u2019re going clause by clause. But clause 21 has a question, so I\u2019ll answer that. This Government is focused on economic growth. No surprise there. Employee share schemes support people that are doing business start-ups in the tech sector\u2014that\u2019s good for New Zealand; that\u2019s good for that sector. We\u2019re making it a little bit easier for them to do that. We\u2019re increasing the threshold in which they get tax-free income. We\u2019ve applied a process to get to that number and we have come up with the numbers which we\u2019ve got, and which industry are heavily supportive of and anyone working in the tech sector are very supportive of. This is common-sense, practical policy and we\u2019re very proud that it is part of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022abd8014aa15f485b9f7a997c12daeff4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022abd8014aa15f485b9f7a997c12daeff4\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I will have a short contribution, and I am very pleased that the Minister of Revenue is answering the questions, as he noted, going through clause by clause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, in the last session when we were debating this bill, my colleague the Hon Dr Megan Woods was asking some questions on emergency events. I\u2019m going to jump forward to clause 30, which inserts new cross-heading \u201CEmergency events\u201D and new section DB 69, \u201CDeduction for interruption expenditure due to emergency event\u201D. As my colleague the Hon Doctor Megan Woods said in the last session, it\u2019s good to have these provisions about emergency events. What I\u2019m interested in\u2014and I couldn\u2019t find anything in the commentary, and there doesn\u2019t appear to be any changes in the Amendment Paper 247 from the Government either\u2014is how this clause works, how the mechanisms work around it. So a person is allowed a deduction for expenditure incurred while their income-earning activity is interrupted by an emergency event if they meet various criteria.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really looking for the nexus here. If the person can\u2019t earn an income because of the emergency, what expenditures will they be incurring linked to that income that they are now going to be allowed a deduction for? So I\u2019m just wondering\u2014it could be quite a circular, chicken before the egg type of argument\u2014if there\u2019s an explanation for that, or if it is in fact this chicken and egg situation. So are there different expenditures that can be deducted even though the person isn\u2019t able to make any income because of this emergency event? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u002272655b4d5cb9464dac5b4c6c9d34f479\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272655b4d5cb9464dac5b4c6c9d34f479\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I\u2019m not going to get into circular egg conversations, but what I can say in regards to this is that there\u2019s a range of expenditures that individuals will incur as a result of dealing with emergency events. What we\u2019ve been very simplistic about around this provision is to say that there\u2019s a threshold in regards to the $5,000 that will be applying to those individuals. They\u2019ll have the discretion to think about that. But these are emergency events. We can\u2019t be dictating all the time in terms of exact\u2014we\u2019re giving a little bit of practicality on the reality of the challenges that individuals face in these very difficult circumstances, and we\u2019re putting it in place so that we don\u2019t need to go through a full legislative process every time one of these emergency events occur. That is ridiculous; it wastes so much time and we want to make sure that these benefit and we can move quickly to get the support to where it\u2019s needed, and that\u2019s to the people that are on the front line dealing with these natural events and that\u2019s a major stress point for them and their communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022953c6c6bee8d4971b284bc96a790e59c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022953c6c6bee8d4971b284bc96a790e59c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman, and I thank the Minister of Revenue for that contribution. I believe my colleague Dr Deborah Russell will come back to that\u2014that that wasn\u2019t addressing the questions around the clause that the Hon Rachel Brooking had put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve made clear in previous contributions that we think that, actually, it is sensible to make amendments to our taxation legislation to make sure that we are set up with a framework where we can have a more off-the-shelf set of solutions for taxation, in that regard. But my colleague the Hon Deborah Russell, in a subsequent contribution, will come back and remind the Minister exactly what questions were being asked. I think it is important that we scrutinise this, because it is such an important set of provisions around what our framework for having the tax system set up to provide that relief would be. I remind the Minister before I go on to the next clause that I\u2019m going to talk to that I still have the drafting question that I put to him yesterday around whether or not the $5,000 is a cap\u2014how that figure was reached, what was the thinking behind that, and why that is the number. That is in clause 20.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI am going to skip ahead a little bit, and we\u2019ll probably come back to some of the other clauses in subsequent questions, and they are the clauses that are around the platform economy, which are in this part of the legislation, particularly clauses 14 and 23. So this is making sure that people who operate within the platform economy\u2014e.g., Airbnb\u2014pay GST. In some cases, those people get GST credits, that are treated as income, and that is what this part of the legislation is looking to address. So, ordinarily, GST is entirely backed out of the income tax system, so you don\u2019t claim the GST received as income and you don\u2019t claim GST paid as expenses. And that\u2019s well covered in the commentary on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe question is: for clause 14, what is the flat-rate credit in section 2(1) of the Goods and Services Tax Act working off? And why are we mixing up income tax and goods and services tax? What is the thinking, and the policy thinking, that led to that being in the clauses of this bill? In clause 23, why are we changing section CX 1B\u2014first of all, saying that the flat-rate credits are excluded income, per CX 1B, as it is now\u2014and then after this bill is passed, saying they are not excluded income. Which is it and why is there this confusion? Is this something that we need to be looking at the Minister bringing some amendments on to clear up those ambiguities and those confusions that could arise? I would be interested to hear from the Minister, particularly in relation to clauses 4 and 14 and 23, around exactly why they are drafted as they are. So those are my questions for the Minister on these particular clauses; we\u2019ll have more to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00228baf4348842b4fecbe0140b9f90b28c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228baf4348842b4fecbe0140b9f90b28c1\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thank you, Mr Chair. There\u2019s just something that the Minister of Revenue said, and I\u2019d like you to clarify this for us because the Minister said that we\u2019d spent 4\u00BD hours on this debate, but my understanding is that in committee stages the issue is not so much the time that is spent on a debate but whether people were raising new points or not. So the fact that we might spend a lot of time moving through it doesn\u2019t really matter; what actually matters is whether the points that are being raised are new points or not, and whether we\u2019re engaging in repetition. Now, we\u2019ve been very, very careful not to engage in repetition. We\u2019ve actually worked this. So I just wondered if I could have some clarification from you on whether it\u2019s time versus repetition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u00226e9d87708824408c973d6ecbf61d3499\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e9d87708824408c973d6ecbf61d3499\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Just speaking to the point of order. I actually didn\u2019t say 4\u00BD; I said five hours and 15 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7c623fb1c094f3ab3dc6c03bae39751\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7c623fb1c094f3ab3dc6c03bae39751\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I will take some advice on this and continue to think on this. But we do need to have new material and to cut out repetitions. It\u2019s also possible that the Minister might be giving some answers, and then some sequent questions could be brought up as well. But if those questions have already been answered in previous questions, then that could also count towards repetition. But I will take a bit more advice on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u002206cf29c8680c43368a57e889bfcf41be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206cf29c8680c43368a57e889bfcf41be\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the point of order. Thank you, Mr Chairman. I\u2019m just seeking some clarification. I absolutely understand what you\u2019re saying about whether there\u2019s repetition in the questions and that in some of the subsequent questions there may be repetitions. But I\u2019m just asking for some advice on what happens with questions that we are putting that are not being answered by the Minister, because there is a large and growing number of questions that are still outstanding that the Minister has not either addressed or answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad88fceebadc41a0840d0d2adec5699a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad88fceebadc41a0840d0d2adec5699a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I will come back to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00228f1757897ff94782826f1604d77dbac0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f1757897ff94782826f1604d77dbac0\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to that, as well, just a further point in there. If the Minister has, in fact, answered incorrectly, I presume it\u2019s still quite possible to come back and say, \u201CActually, mate, I get it, but you\u2019ve got it wrong.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022d02f1351d9d143328549354d10e7420c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d02f1351d9d143328549354d10e7420c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I can acknowledge that there are going to be different perspectives in the committee. The Minister can address those questions as he feels appropriate. The point is that he addresses those questions. I will give you an update where we get with this. But we\u2019ll continue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8f379464117474caab08598769c368f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8f379464117474caab08598769c368f\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ll just acknowledge what the Hon Dr Deborah Russell and also the Hon Megan Woods have also mentioned before that\u2014this is quite a substantial bill. But I\u2019m also seeing that the Government parties are very excited to take a call on this, particularly members of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, so I look forward to their contribution to this bill as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EMy question to the Minister of Revenue is around actually the Minister\u2019s Amendment Paper, specifically the Amendment Paper 247. We\u2019re looking at, since we\u2019re still on roughly around clause 21\u2014I\u2019m actually looking at the new clause 21BA that\u2019s being introduced, and just to note that, again, this Amendment Paper was introduced to the House post - select committee process and also post - second reading, so it\u2019ll be really good for us to kind of get some understanding on some of the policy intent of this Amendment Paper as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ESo my question to the Minister, when he comes to the newly introduced clause 21BA, inserting new section CW 39B, is around the Auckland Future Fund. Now, granted that we have heard the bill coming through first reading and is currently sitting at select committee on the Auckland Future Fund, I\u2019m curious as to know, because the Auckland Future Fund bill that\u2019s been introduced is looking at the governance and management structure of that particular fund, why then this Amendment Paper introduces a fund where some of that governance and management structure hasn\u2019t even been set in stone yet and is still currently going through select committee. So is that kind of a cart before the horse sort of scenario? I just want to kind of get a clarification from the Minister on that particular intent with the introduction here. Is it anticipating that that bill will go through the House with no issues?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI\u2019m also curious in terms of the type of exemptions that are being done here, because, again, the Minister, being the Minister of Revenue but also an Auckland-based electoral MP, would have a vested interest in this. It says that the exempt income does not apply to things by a trustee of the Auckland Future Fund from a council-controlled organisation (CCO) or an organisation linked by ownership or control to Auckland Council, its port company, etc. So, if these are not included, what does then fall under subsection (1) as a certain amount from commercial undertakings? Are we looking at the exempted income being the fund itself as opposed to the other things that are associated to the fund? I just wanted to get some clarification on what the Minister means by commercial undertakings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI think the last part around this is sort of in terms of as we\u2019re looking at this, again, because this is a bill that\u2019s still going through select committee, what sort of consultation has the Minister received or sort of advice has the Minister received around the nuance between that exempted income of the Auckland Future Fund? So those are my three questions. What is the relationship between the introduction of this Amendment Paper and the bill that\u2019s currently going through select committee? What is considered an exempt income if CCOs and other sort of organisations linked by ownership or control of Auckland Council like port company, etc., is not part of the exempted income? And what consultation or advice has the Minister received regarding the need for having that exempted income in the first place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5651a763b0a4b859bc5bbc385998ef0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5651a763b0a4b859bc5bbc385998ef0\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair, and I thank the member for the questions. So in regards to the questions by the member in regards to new clause 21BA, inserted by Amendment Paper 247, on the Auckland Future Fund, he\u2019s right to note that there is a bill currently working its way through the House. What we do know is that the Auckland Future Fund is part of Auckland Council, which is tax exempt. So common sense prevails that this entity will also have that same tax exemption, hence why we\u2019re putting it through this bill to make sure that when it\u2019s operational then it can get on and do what it needs to do. The member asked about consultation. We did a lot of consultation with Auckland Council and that would be expected in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EClause 20 was a question as well, raised by a member previously around whether it was a cap or not. Yes, it is a cap. I said that when I raised it. I actually said that twice when I got asked the same question in prior sessions on the same point. But, again, it is a cap of $5,000, and that is that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EAlso, a question in regards to clauses 14, 23, and 29 by Hon Dr Megan Woods in regards to flat-rate credits and the platform economy. What we\u2019re doing here is actually a number of changes to ensure that the treatment in regards to these aspects of income\u2014there\u2019s a number of complexities and we\u2019re moving and making improvements to that, to make complying with the income tax obligations more straightforward. What that means for those watching at home is we\u2019re removing unnecessary bureaucracy and compliance to make the costs on taxpayers less. And, by the way, that\u2019s a good thing and that\u2019s very much cognitive and representative of this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002290b242b96fa44f3681066e28f4d068fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290b242b96fa44f3681066e28f4d068fe\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the next call, I just want to address the point of order that came up earlier. I\u2019d like to direct members to Speakers\u2019 rulings 68/1 and 68/2. Speaker\u2019s ruling 68/1 states, \u201CClosure motions are more likely to be accepted in a shorter time period if Ministers have engaged in a positive manner to non-political technical questions.\u201D, and Speaker\u2019s ruling 68/2 states, \u201CThe acceptance of a closure motion is about the content of the part, the content of the speeches, and the way that the committee conducts itself.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s engagement by the Minister on the one hand, and the conduct of the committee on the other, and the judge of relevancy is myself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022 data-id=\u00225d79a51231d14bd689b0bf3ef76dba45\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d79a51231d14bd689b0bf3ef76dba45\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022d23c8498eef44616a59fa8831d13395c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d23c8498eef44616a59fa8831d13395c\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m pretty relieved to have gotten this call\u2014thank you, Mr Chair\u2014because, with all due respect to the Minister of Revenue, frankly, he was wrong in an explanation he gave before. I appreciate tax law is complicated. There\u2019s a lot to get through and a lot to understand, but I also understand that the Minister, in his previous life, like me, was an accountant, so I do expect that he has a better understanding than most laypeople of tax law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI want to go back to the discussion that my colleague Rachel Brooking raised. She asked the Minister to direct his attention to clause 30 of the bill, and it is to do with allowing a deduction for expenses incurred during an emergency event. Rachel Brooking wanted to know about allowing this deduction for expenses when no income is being earned. Now, the Minister replied, and he replied talking about the new emergency provisions in general, and why we were having them in place. He said, \u201CThat\u2019s why we have this clause 30.\u201D But, actually, that\u2019s kind of a very big, broad, and general answer to what was a very specific question. The very specific question was this: it was to do with the nexus with income.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, as people who are familiar with the Income Tax Act know, Part D of the Income Tax Act concerns itself with expenses that people may deduct from their income. Section DA1 gives a general permission, and the general permission is that when you incur expenses, you may deduct them. All right, but you\u2019ve got to earn income. In order to deduct an expense, it has to be incurred either in the conduct of a business or because it\u2019s an earning income. And there\u2019s a problem: if your business has been interrupted by an emergency event, you\u2019re not earning income, right? That\u2019s the point of a business interruption\u2014you can no longer earn income. So, if you\u2019re no longer earning income, you can\u2019t deduct expenses. You\u2019ve got to have that nexus with income, and those are the actual words in the Income Tax Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe interesting thing was that I spent quite a bit of time with the bill commentary\u2014I spent quite a bit of time working through this\u2014and I couldn\u2019t find a discussion of this particular clause in the bill commentary; and yet it\u2019s introducing something quite normal and interesting, that in these emergency events, even though you are not earning income, you can get deductions for expenditure. So you can see why I\u2019m quite concerned. I\u2019m concerned on two grounds: one is that the Minister\u2014and fair enough; the tax bills are long and complicated\u2014didn\u2019t quite get the right spot of the question. But the other one is that it is quite novel, really, to be able to claim expenditure when there\u2019s no income. I get why we would do this, I get why it\u2019s important, but it gets even more important than that\u2014the fact that the nexus with income puts a bit of a limit on the sort of expenses that can be claimed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWhat I want to know from the Minister is whether\u2014I can see, I think, why that nexus needs to be set aside, but I\u2019d like the Minister\u2019s explanation on that. I also want to know whether there\u2019s going to be a limit to the kind of expenses that can be claimed in this space. Perhaps, you know, if there\u2019s no nexus with income, what other expenses might a person claim just because they can? The nexus with income imposes a kind of control over it. There is a limit to what can be claimed. But, as soon as we do away with the nexus with income, fair enough in this circumstance, we also do away with that limit. So what limit is going to be placed on the types of expenses that can be claimed in this context?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI\u2019m trusting that the Minister has got the point of the question now, and I know he will understand it, because I appreciate it that, when you hear it the first time, perhaps you don\u2019t quite get the question that\u2019s being asked. I\u2019m sure the Minister has got the point of that question now, and I\u2019m looking forward to hearing his answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u00228b0061896e4e41e0881013cc31ceeff8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b0061896e4e41e0881013cc31ceeff8\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Chair, and I thank the member for the question. I do also acknowledge that this point was discussed during the select committee phase and I know that the member was part of that. But irrespective of that, we\u2019ll cover off the detail for the purpose of those watching at home. It is important to note that this new section DB 69 inserted by clause 30, in regards to deduction, supplements the general provision which the member has noted. The purpose of this new section is to prove that there is a nexus between the income and expenditure, acknowledging that that would have been disrupted by the event. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a point going further in terms of how far does that deduction go: well, the deduction has to be relevant to the income-earning activity of the specific example, and so within that, that provides the bounds of what is reasonable or not. Obviously, the IRD are very accustomed in terms of dealing with that. But it is important to note that in an emergency event, what would normally be the case in terms of that nexus in effect can be broken and the outcome of that would be detrimental; hence what the Finance and Expenditure Committee have done through their consideration of this bill. This new section reflects that and ensures that there is a nexus between income and expenditure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u002215a66d6f908d47e2abecf2bbd2afa51c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215a66d6f908d47e2abecf2bbd2afa51c\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I want to ask about clauses 31 and 32, which are about the transparency rule for partnerships. So my understanding is we\u2019re moving from a situation where we\u2019ve had transparency to one where we\u2019re looking at an assumption of opaque partnerships. That\u2019s with regard to the payment of pensions to former partners and the payment of working partners in various other areas. I have looked at the commentary, but it doesn\u2019t really tell me why. My understanding is that\u2019s not the usual rule; we\u2019re moving away here from the Income Tax Act. So I\u2019d like to know: what\u2019s the justification for doing that? What\u2019s the advantage of doing it? And specifically, perhaps with regard to some of the clauses that we have looked at here\u2014the sections are listed in the commentary for the benefit of it. But what is it that it\u2019s achieving in those sections? I appreciate you\u2019re unlikely to want to look at all of them, but can you give me an example of where that is doing a good thing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI appreciate that I\u2019m not on the Finance and Expenditure Committee any more; I\u2019m not an accountant, but I think it\u2019s really important that people out there understand a change like this in ordinary terms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9bf24208eb948a39f58a3020429cb2d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Can you tell us which clauses you\u2019re talking about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220eb6b97d32394d99b278b9eb6d5655d0\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m talking, sir, about clauses 31 and 32. And if you look at the Inland Revenue\u2019s commentary, you can see on page 141 there\u2019s just a sentence on it and it actually provides all the sections that it affects. So there are a whole range of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222800804e703549ddaca3c7cf25877f70\u0022\u003EHon Dr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s 31 and 32.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d593aa131be4d74b095cd4f57d43b34\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, it\u2019s clauses 31 and 32, and then the sections that it proposes to affect are listed. Thank you very much. I\u2019d be very grateful for an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022126da538229e40e79acf1649ad2f32f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022126da538229e40e79acf1649ad2f32f7\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman. I have some further questions for the Minister of Revenue around clause 30, the \u201CDeduction for \u2026 expenditure due to emergency event\u201D. This is something, despite the discussion at the Finance and Expenditure Committee and some of the discussions that occurred in this House, that I am still unsure whether it will be covered. It\u2019s not a theoretical situation. One of the things that the bill makes clear is that it\u2019s drawing on what some of the responses to the Canterbury earthquake sequences were and on the tax relief that was put in place there. So I\u2019d be interested to hear from the Minister about his understanding of a business that was operating out of a building that was not red stickered or was not damaged or deemed to be uninhabitable, and that, none the less, had its business interrupted, not because of its own building but because there was a demolition of buildings that had been red stickered or deemed uninhabitable very close by and because the entry and pathway to the building was blocked off in order to facilitate the demolition of other buildings in close proximity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe had the real question, through the Canterbury earthquake sequence, of whether or not interruption insurance would apply under these circumstances. So have we fixed that in terms of the tax situation and in terms of the new definitions? I know it\u2019s certainly the intent of the Government, and the intent of this legislation, to really bring all these things together and tidy things up, but I\u2019m still unclear. I think it\u2019s quite clear, if there was a building that was red stickered or deemed uninhabitable, what the situation would be there. But I want to know what it is when there\u2019s a building that is, essentially, collateral damage from the fate of a building that is in close proximity, and whether or not it is the Minister\u2019s understanding that the definitions that we have in this legislation, particularly around clause 30, are broad enough to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u0022a751e195135a4d4b8680e9443c6160dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a751e195135a4d4b8680e9443c6160dd\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I just want to ask some questions of the Minister of Revenue relating to a separate clause in Part 2, which is clause 29. I do want to acknowledge that the Minister has been really helpful in terms of answering questions. This one is a wee bit complicated and so I\u2019d really appreciate it if he was able to help me understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EClause 29 amends section DB 2, related to GST. It replaces \u201Clisted services\u201D with a new provision that says, \u201Clisted services. However, this subsection does not apply if the underlying supplier has received a flat-rate credit, as defined in section 2(1) of that Act, in an income year and has chosen as described in\u00A0section CH 5B\u00A0(Adjustments for certain flat-rate credits under platform economy rules) to include the amount of the credit in their income for the income year.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EIt makes my head want to explode, and I just want to note that our tax expert Deborah Russell may have some more questions on the specific clause because she is the expert amongst our team\u2014I\u2019m not going to claim to be that person. But my understanding of this particular clause is that it relates to platform economy rules, which means you can get a deduction for expenses. But what this would mean, according to the commentary on the bill\u2014Inland Revenue\u2019s commentary, dated August\u00A02024; just to help the Minister, and I realise I\u2019m referring to lots of different parts of the bill and the commentary\u2014is that you can\u2019t, as I understand it, get a deduction for GST, but if you\u2019re not GST registered, then you can get a deduction. But then the deduction is removed for people who are using the platform economy rule. But what this amendment does is it puts it back in again in some circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d like to know what those circumstances are and why. This feels really complicated\u2014to basically not be registered and then you get the deduction, then the deduction\u2019s removed, then you put it back in again. I think this is quite a complex matter. It is making my head explode. It is messy, and I\u2019d be really appreciative if the Minister could help untangle this wee mess. I\u2019m sure that if I haven\u2019t quite got my interpretation of my reading of this correct, my colleague Deborah Russell will at some point be able to further flesh out the questions that the Opposition has about this. But, in the meantime, I\u2019d be really interested in hearing from the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe167c3e37b9439bab749ae095f8d7d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe167c3e37b9439bab749ae095f8d7d5\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thanks very much to the members for those questions. I\u2019ll work my way through them, starting with the Hon Dr Megan Woods\u2019 point around clause 30 inserting new section DB 69. As I heard it, I think the question was: is the definition broad enough to cover an interruption? The example of Christchurch was used in that example. There is no limit in terms of the amount of the deduction that can be are taken in, in regards to the emergency event, and the emergency event is defined at which\u2014I can\u2019t speak for the specific\u2014the Christchurch earthquake would seem like a threshold of that. But the deduction is not limited only to the extent that it is relevant to the income production or income purposes of that business operation. And that would be where the constraint of the deduction would be placed through. So I am comfortable the definition is broad enough in that context.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThere were other questions raised in regards to clauses 31 and 32 by the Hon Dr Deborah Russell, in regards to partnerships. In effect, this is a remedial\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5f19b337066462d8ba368cd39f46550\u0022\u003EHon Dr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: It was Helen White.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229865cba6fe63455c804182f2d3a92899\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Helen White\u2014apologies to the member Helen White. But I do know that this was in regards to partnerships. This is primarily a remedial change. The purpose of these changes\u2014going to the question of why we are doing it\u2014is to clarify that in certain circumstances, a limited partnership should be treated as an entity. That ensures that the other sections of the bill work as intended. So that\u2019s the purpose of that remedial change, and it is making sure that the context in terms of the way in which those entities are treated is transparent in the context of which they need to know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002276d00788c57f44a1af5e52bd40e9a220\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276d00788c57f44a1af5e52bd40e9a220\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I take the next call, I have gone back through the tracking sheet and last night people did talk about clause 30. So just to note that if we are focusing on questions around clause 30, that has been covered quite a lot. So I\u2019m looking for brand new fresh material in that regard, without repetition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022 data-id=\u0022443ed1b41a434a4ead7873bd903faf6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022443ed1b41a434a4ead7873bd903faf6d\u0022\u003EREUBEN DAVIDSON (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It\u2019s good to be able to take a call on this and to ask some questions specifically around\u2014not clause 30, you\u2019ll be pleased to know\u2014clauses 14, 23, and 29. Now, this really comes from a question both around speed and also around the ability for tax law and tax legislation to keep pace with the speed at which the tech sector and platforms move, because we know that platform developments, platform shifts and changes, often happen at incredible speeds. We can wake up in New Zealand and, overnight\u2014it hasn\u2019t been night-time somewhere else in the world\u2014a platform can have changed ownership or changed function. That can have quite serious impacts on how we capture the revenue spent or invested into, or generated, even, on that platform.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003ESo in the summary here of the proposed amendments, it says that it would provide certain underlying suppliers who make supplies of listed services through an electronic market place the option to include the flat-rate credit as assessable income in their tax returns. It goes on to say that this would allow them to deduct their expenditure for income tax purposes on a GST-inclusive basis without the need for apportionment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003ETo come back to the point of the speed of platforms, in the previous experience that I\u2019ve had of creating content for an audience\u2014and I\u2019m using that as an analogy for capturing or measuring correct apportionments of taxes on platforms\u2014it is that you do have to move incredibly quickly to adapt and keep up with those audiences. Digital market places are exactly the same. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003ESo the questions, really, are: what steps are in place to ensure that the tax and tax capture keeps up and it\u2019s not left behind but also that it doesn\u2019t get ahead of the movement and actions of those platforms? That really comes down to the identification of those certain underlying suppliers, who and how often are those assessed and updated, and at whose discretion is that work taking place. How can the Minister of Revenue be confident that the speed at which tax regulation, tax law, works is going to keep pace not just over the next six months and the next 12 months but, really, over the next five- or 10-year horizon, when we can expect to see huge advancements in the way that these platforms operate and the speeds at which they operate\u2014particularly in the context of artificial intelligence and all of the opportunities and advances that that operates to this platform sector? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s really, I guess, a question around a David and Goliath battle. Even though, currently, the Goliath is the tax document sitting in front of me, really what we\u2019re looking at in the platform context is that the Goliath becomes the ability of these platforms and the larger companies behind them to move at extreme speeds that, potentially, can always stay just ahead of taxation and taxation\u2019s ability to capture. So their constant evolution and shift presents a real challenge for legislation and for the Minister. So I\u2019m really interested to hear your answers, Minister, to these questions specifically around the ability to keep pace with the speed at which technological advancements across platforms will continue to evolve not just around the world but specifically here in New Zealand, which, obviously, this legislation is relevant to. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u00228785bbeb6ad64205861969bc7a031586\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228785bbeb6ad64205861969bc7a031586\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. The question relates to clauses 14, 23, and 29, consistent with a question answered more, but I\u2019ll provide a little bit more context for the member\u2019s purpose. First and foremost, this is an optional area for a taxpayer. It is primarily looking at hosts, drivers, and deliverers, and this is a result of the platform economy GST rules that came into force on 1 April 2024.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIt basically provides the mechanism for those individuals to treat their flat-rate credit that they get from an online market place as assessable income instead of excluded income. And because they can choose it to be assessable income, that means that they can then deduct GST. And so as a result of that, the quid pro quo of being able to treat assessable income and therefore being able to claim GST means that complying with their tax obligations, as I noted before, is made more straightforward. So that\u2019s the purpose of that. The Finance and Expenditure Committee did consider this. They didn\u2019t make any recommended changes to this clause; they thought it was about right and I\u2019ll leave it with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022fedbed3ce4f2487cb8d131c2819e97c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fedbed3ce4f2487cb8d131c2819e97c7\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m actually very, very grateful to get the call on this because I want to move on to clause 35. There\u2019s a particular reason why I wanted to be the one to ask the questions around this. It\u2019s to do with livestock valuation. My dad, in a retirement village, watches Parliament, and my dad happened to be a primary sector tax expert, and he knows the livestock valuation rules inside out. So I\u2019m just going to say, \u201CDad, I\u2019m asking this question for you.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221225076889d54598885c2a00d18d8f3c\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: Is he a National voter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022272b4dbd50d44dcc9118ce9e1c6269d0\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: He supports Labour, just for the record. Now, it\u2019s all about livestock valuation. Those rules are complicated because some livestock is held as a herd, as a capital asset, and some livestock is held as a trading asset, right? So buying and selling. The buying and selling of livestock might be growing a crop of lambs each year\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfa3780244524463bf8b0dcc34d4989f\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: A crop?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa99a0e249b142a0b3ae663a8977b7c4\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: A \u201Ccrop\u201D will do. In about July or August, we\u2019ll see them starting to look nice and fat in time for Christmas. So that\u2019s, obviously, that trading, buying and selling\u2014well, breeding, buying, and selling. But, of course, the flock of ewes which have the lambs in the first place are the capital asset. So there are some quite complicated rules around livestock valuation, and the clever accountants\u2014like my dad, of course\u2014know how to apply them and get those sorts of rules correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo this is an interesting little amendment to section EC 1, because what it does is it takes out a little bit of the rules. Now, the idea in EC 1 is that it\u2019s all about livestock valuation. But, as it stands, in the way the EC 1 is written at the moment\u2014EC 1(1), sorry\u2014in the Income Tax Act, it implies, just the way it\u2019s written, that if a farmer holds livestock for purposes other than purchase and sale, then it\u2019s not covered by the livestock valuation rules. Now, it\u2019s only an implication, just the way it\u2019s written, but it\u2019s quite an interesting one. The change is, actually, to clarify those rules. It takes out a set of words, and it says, if \u201Ca person \u2026 owns or carries on a farming business, other than a livestock \u2026 business, holds livestock for the purposes of farming that livestock in the ordinary course of carrying on the farming business:\u201D So that\u2019s the new wording.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe old wording implied that a farmer had to hold livestock for the purpose of farming. There was a dealing implication in it. So that\u2019s a bit of a change of the language here. It\u2019s only, I guess, remedial. It\u2019s only a small change. But it would be interesting to know if there was any harm actually being caused by the previous version of the words. So this is a tidy up of the language. We\u2019re spending the committee\u2019s time on it, we\u2019ve spent select committee time on it, and officials have spent time in the Inland Revenue (IR) policy unit working on this. Presumably, IR staffers out in the field have been dealing with farmers on this. But what I want to know is whether there were any actual tax cases\u2014whether they were any pretty low-level tax case or whether there was any actual harm being caused. So what justifies the committee spending time on this particular matter if no harm was being caused by it in the first place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, I get why we do want to try to tidy up the tax law. We do want the words to be precise because, in tax law, words really, really, really do matter. But I guess, just the step-on from that: was there actually any harm being caused by the previous standing of the words? My feeling is that those words have been in there for quite a long time, because it refers to subsection (2), the new stuff that\u2019s coming in. It applies to the 2008-9 income years. That\u2019s quite a long time back, so it implies that the slightly vague wording has been in there since the 2008-9 year. So, obviously, we\u2019ve gotten by for about 15 years with having these slightly inaccurate words in there. So what\u2019s been happening in those 15 years and why does it justify us spending our time and energy, right now, trying to update this clause?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022211a009a16254987a152e3e526cb7817\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022211a009a16254987a152e3e526cb7817\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I acknowledge and appreciate that the Finance and Expenditure Committee didn\u2019t horse around in regards to this clause. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220949f5e572c34bc0b5b0d7d4c5476689\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: Neigh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220602852958c945c5a1bf1272f9cb4028\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: They did consider it very seriously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022365891e6cf2e4e44bc57b4b62b411be1\u0022\u003EHon Chris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: The neighs have it!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022715b9e46268f4ece88c47af5e3f22f5f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Well done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228de445ab07b54244b17c937c1a840ef3\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Well done. Ha, ha! As the member has highlighted, this is a remedial matter. The definition as it stands excludes livestock held for any other income-generating purpose. As a Government that is listening to taxpayers, particularly those in the primary sector, they\u2019ve said to us that the inaccurate wording can cause confusion and potentially could result in some businesses valuing their livestock incorrectly or simply not valuing them at all. Hence it was prudent by Government to correct this through this remedial change. As a result, that will ensure that we don\u2019t have an inaccurate assessment of income related to livestock on farms in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022c21c5f3adc5b4f808e643e841aa92095\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c21c5f3adc5b4f808e643e841aa92095\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: If I can carry forward that analogy, I would appreciate if members galloped to fresher fields and if we had no repetition and relevancy, the committee would appreciate that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u002292da431475444c908aaf281541a24e7b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292da431475444c908aaf281541a24e7b\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E For many members, there is the appetite to move on to the crux of this particular part around emergency management. But before we get there, I just have one last question around an upcoming section, which is clause 35B, around valuation of excepted financial arrangements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EJust checking\u2014and I also understand the Minister in the chair is also the Minister for Climate Change\u2014I do have a question around this particular section around the forest land emissions unit transfer, just to get some clarity around this. My understanding, when it comes to this particular section, or even the preceding section ED 1(7B)(a) is around other parts of the Climate Change Response Amendment Act. But I think in this particular case, one of the things I was interested in is what is considered under section 64 of the Climate Change Response Act, because we know that section ED 1(7B)(a) is empowered by Part 4, Subpart 2, of the Climate Change Response Act 2002. But with this particular section, in terms of the no-payment of a price and also the accepted financial arrangement, how is the forest land emissions unit actually going to work in tangent to that, and whether the Minister knows of any other instance, other than forest land emissions units, where other types of unit may not be included as part of this? Again, section 64 of the Act gives the opening for other types of potential unit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ESo I guess my two main questions are: one, how would this work in tangent to ED 1(7B)(a); and two, have there been other forms of emissions unit other than the forest land unit that will be considered as part of the accepted financial arrangement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u0022640d57c9b2784996939bd1ff339114f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022640d57c9b2784996939bd1ff339114f1\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022 data-id=\u00223d7594b14ab1402da652fb716dcbc01f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d7594b14ab1402da652fb716dcbc01f\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. There are still substantial portions of the emergency management bits that have yet to be traversed, so I think we\u2019ll start exploring that now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI wanted to ask the question, though\u2014you know, this is the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2024\u201425, Emergency Response, and Remedial Measures) Bill, so I\u2019m looking at the regulatory impact statement, \u201CGeneric response to emergency events\u201D. Now, the officials proposed five different options in that regulatory impact statement. Option one is the status quo. That\u2019s self-explanatory; it\u2019s what we\u2019re doing now. Option two is the step-down approach, which they say would use tax measures as the basis for the generic measures. Option three is the step-down approach with information sharing, similar to the second one, except with information sharing. Option four is extended information-sharing to other emergencies. Option five is emergency\u2014definition of \u201Cemergency\u201D when depreciation income arises as a result of the emergency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003ESo my question to the Minister of Revenue is: which of these options was the one that was implemented in this legislation\u2014noting that the preferred option of the officials was option three. Was that the option that was used or was it some hybrid mixture of the other options? Just curious on what option ended up being preferred, because I\u2019ve tried to read through this legislation. It\u2019s very long, it\u2019s very complex, so I don\u2019t necessarily understand which option we ended up going with. So I\u2019m keen for an explanation from the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI now turn to new clause 53B, inserting new section FP 3, I believe. That one has a section around definitions of various things. My question is related to the definition of the \u201Cemergency event period\u201D, particularly in paragraph (b)(i)\u2014so that\u2019s new clause 53B, inserting the new Subpart FP, new section FP3, the definition section, under paragraph (b)(i), which is \u201Cthe last day of the income year that is 5 income years after the income year referred to in paragraph (a);\u201D. Now, I am just curious why\u2014with five income years, is that the sort of standard thing in the legislation? Has that been defined somewhere else? Like, I\u2019m curious why it\u2019s five income years. That seems like a long time, but it could be a short time. I don\u2019t really have much in the way of context and am curious to know from the Minister why exactly five years was picked for that period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EAnother question that I had when going through this legislation\u2014again, noting that unlike my colleagues I\u2019m not a tax lawyer. I struggled to process and understand a lot of this, so I\u2019m asking a lot of definitional questions. New section FP 14 is \u201CWhen property uneconomic to repair\u201D. I just want the Minister to, I guess, define that in layman\u2019s terms. What does \u201Cuneconomic to repair\u201D actually mean? It goes on to say it applies \u201Cwhen \u2026 (c) the person reasonably assesses that the item is uneconomic to repair;\u201D. Are there other judgments or thresholds that go into that, or is it purely, you know, up to the whim of the individual to decide when things are uneconomic to appear?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll just reiterate my questions because I\u2019ve kind of traversed a lot of ground. My first question to the Minister was: which option is the one that\u2019s being implemented in this legislation? Is it option one? Is it option two, option three, option four, option five, or some kind of new bespoke option? And my second question was around new clause 53B inserting new section FP 3, which is around the concept of five years\u2014why five years? Is it independent legislation? I\u2019m curious to see. And my final question was around new section FP 14\u2014looking for, I guess, a layperson\u2019s definition of uneconomic to repair. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u00226c5fc4593d104c0fbd915d893dc1ab9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c5fc4593d104c0fbd915d893dc1ab9d\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much to the member Francisco Hernandez for those questions. In regards to the option that we selected, we went for option 3, which is a step-down approach. There\u2019s a table in the back that outlines the five different options that were considered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIn regards to clause 53B, in terms of the five-year term, five years is a standard and pragmatic period of time, which is generally utilised for circumstances such as this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe question in regards to clause 35B\u2014the value of forestry land emissions\u2014the context here is that the legislation as it stands correctly specifies the value of the units at the end of the income year; however, the acquisition value of these emission units is not stated in the legislation. Hence, it\u2019s a technical oversight in the legislation, and we\u2019ve made a fix to that, which makes sure that that is the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe other question that the member asked in regards to the other aspects of the Climate Change Response Act: obviously, that\u2019s not in the scope of this bill. We just looked at this specific fix, in regards to forestry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022e25c059477ca45efa614eedf5584fcf7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e25c059477ca45efa614eedf5584fcf7\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I am going to really gallop forward, but I note that colleagues have some questions further back in the bill. But mine is around subclauses 105(14) and (18). These are the provisions that relate to energy consumer trust exclusions. The proposed amendment would ensure that trusts that no longer hold shares in electricity distribution companies but continue to have the same class of beneficiaries for which the trust was established, also qualify as energy consumer trusts. And trusts that meet the current definition would not be affected by the amendment that\u2019s before us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo the background, in terms of the bill commentary\u2014and I have looked at the bill commentary, but what I\u2019m interested to understand some more from the Minister of Revenue is around the \u201Cwhy\u201D for this, what the purpose of this is, and the number of entities that we\u2019re talking about that would be affected by this amendment in clause 105(18).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EBy way of explanation, where I\u2019m still not entirely sure and it\u2019s not clear to me\u2014and it may just be me, I\u2019m not a tax expert\u2014is why this change is being made. Lines trusts or energy consumer trusts that hold shares in electricity distribution companies, going through the definition\u2014I won\u2019t bother reading the whole thing out\u2014energy consumer trusts \u201Care excluded from the 39 percent trustee tax rate \u2026 and are [instead] subject to the 33 percent tax rate\u201D on their taxable income. This is because they face an increased risk of over-taxation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo, really, what is the policy push behind this amendment that we\u2019re seeing in this clause? What is it that we\u2019re trying to rectify? But, more importantly, how many of these entities are there? How big and how broad is the scope in terms of the impact of what this amendment will be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo the proposed amendment to the lines trust definition in section YA 1 would ensure that it includes the trust that previously held the specified shares and continues to have the same class of beneficiaries. So, really just looking for some more detail from the Minister on that clause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce2a947aadf64da5aeab4a525a764ce0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce2a947aadf64da5aeab4a525a764ce0\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, thank you for the call. I\u2019m grateful to my colleagues for having opened up the debate on what I actually think is perhaps one of the most significant parts of this bill, and we can tell that because it\u2019s the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2024\u201425, Emergency Response, and Remedial Measures) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThis new Subpart FP is very, very new tax law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225969a6528db642feaf19685a74ffd0ae\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Which section are you talking about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cff712489f64b5da2696e5129a7802e\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s Subpart FP\u2014oh, I\u2019m sorry, it\u2019s clause 53b. Clause 53B inserts new Subpart FP, and Subpart FP has got, I think\u2014how many new sections of tax law? It\u2019s got something like 27 new sections of tax law. It goes from section FP 1 to section FP 27 in this copy of the bill. It\u2019s 20 pages of new tax law, so we do need to have a really serious look at this. It\u2019s not just remedial. It\u2019s not just tidying up. It\u2019s not just fixing a small matter. It\u2019s introducing a very significant new part of the income tax law. So we do want to work through it quite carefully; there are some issues I do want to go through. I\u2019m grateful to my colleague Mr Hernandez for opening up the discussion on this, and there were some pretty good questions about some of the matters in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI want to go to a slightly more general discussion first. Look, the reason is, if we look at new section FP 1 in the bill, it itself sits there with an outline of the part. So it introduces this new subpart of the Act, and the very first new section, FP 1, starts with an outline of what the subpart does. So it invites, right from the start, questions about the general policy around this\u2014why we\u2019re doing it; how it sets up the particular rules, the sorts of rules that are sitting in there or are not sitting in there. So that\u2019s actually quite an important and distinctive thing to be doing. Having said all that, here we\u2019ve got Subpart FP; it\u2019s \u201CTax relief for emergencies\u201D, and we\u2019ve got the outline of the subpart.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, as we all know, in the last few years there have been quite a number of black swan events\u2014events which created real trouble in New Zealand. From COVID-19 to earthquakes\u2014the Kaik\u014Dura earthquakes. Something that I know there will be dear to the Hon Chris Penk\u2019s heart\u2014not dear; it was pretty sad, wasn\u2019t it, Mr Penk?\u2014the Auckland Anniversary floods, followed by Cyclone Gabrielle. So there were some black swan events, and of course businesses were affected every time. And every time, the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Revenue\u2014then Labour Ministers\u2014rolled out some emergency measures for businesses. Eventually, in terms of those emergency measures, people started saying, \u201CHey, we actually just need an off the shelf set of measures that can be rolled out as needed pretty quickly so they don\u2019t have to be legislated every time.\u201D It\u2019s a set of measures that can be triggered by the Minister, or by the Governor-General actually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThere are some big policy questions that we need to answer. So I have some questions that I would like to understand from the Minister of Revenue. First of all\u2014I do pretty much understand the justification of this, but how many times have these particular rules, these rules which are now codified into a set of rules, been tested in practice? The Minister has chosen particular rules to go into this suite of rules that can be rolled out as needed, but it implies that they have been used before, so it\u2019d be good to get some feedback from the Minister as to how often have they been used and how effective they have been in providing the sort of relief that businesses actually need during times of emergency. So that\u2019s one of the really big questions to answer around this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe second thing is: I know I said that people were approaching us\u2014and of course they were approaching us as the Government\u2014it\u2019d be good to know from the Minister whether the same people also approached him once he became the Minister of Revenue and stressed that these rules were important. And I think they are important. I think there\u2019s bipartisan agreement on these rules. But it\u2019d be good to know which types of organisation, which types of people actually came to the Minister and said, \u201CPlease get this off the shelf set of rules available.\u201D So if I could have some response on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI suppose there\u2019s a further set of questions around that. There are a number of rules sitting in this. So if we look at it, there\u2019s a rollover relief for particular property, there\u2019s relief for when income earning activities are interrupted\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9c93ff4d9c648809340b7e08b75c4d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9c93ff4d9c648809340b7e08b75c4d3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022 data-id=\u00221ba0f42a5d9a483db9366fa913df2e23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ba0f42a5d9a483db9366fa913df2e23\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00223411d9ea9fc846fe841dd503560a449e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223411d9ea9fc846fe841dd503560a449e\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E There are rules around\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8a4223b349e47e5ad0d08e4fec11b66\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just ask you to get to the questions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b658ce156c274cda8146cda719e5acfe\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: OK\u2014the timing of depreciable property for employment-related relief; there are spreading rules for when livestock is destroyed. What I want to know from the Minister of Revenue is how he chose which rules were going to go into this particular piece of this brand new subpart of the Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo three questions are there for the Minister and I think they are all quite important questions: one is how often have rules like these been deployed and what effect did they give to the\u2014how much did they help the businesses? Two, the people who approached us, were they the same people that approached the Minister? Who were the people who were asking for these rules to be implemented? And the third one is why this particular set of rules? So some have been included, but there might have been other emergency relief measures that were deployed from time to time. Why weren\u2019t they in these rules? So why this particular set of rules?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1c765bd3c904774921b9e3175c010fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1c765bd3c904774921b9e3175c010fd\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and I thank members for their questions. I\u2019ll work my way through those. One of the questions related to Subpart FP. I think it\u2019s important to recognise that this is not new tax law. It\u2019s actually a combination of measures used in past events, and those past events include the Canterbury earthquake, the Kaik\u014Dura earthquake, and the North Island flooding events. There were number of those and we\u2019ve put them all together in that section of Subpart FP. So it\u2019s not new.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe other question was in regards to clause 105(18) and (40), in regards to energy consumer trusts. Basically, the question was how many. We\u2019re actually aware that there is one trust that did not qualify due to historical restructuring, but should have. Basically, what this clause is doing is ensuring that trusts that are substantially energy consumer trusts receive the correct tax treatment. So, again, you\u2019d expect that that would be pretty common sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThere have been a number of questions around how often these tax rules are used. While I do know quite a lot of things, I can\u2019t know every time a tax rule is used by any taxpayer in New Zealand, and I think it\u2019s a reasonable question, but I simply can\u2019t answer that aspect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe other question was why we chose these rules. The Inland Revenue maintain a list of remedial items which have been identified by taxpayers over many years, including tax experts. There are about 700 or so items on that list, and one of the things I did when I became the Minister of Revenue was to say, \u201CReview that list. Identify the aspects that will genuinely create value, remove taxpayer compliance costs on taxpayers, and let\u2019s make sure that we implement those changes to streamline the Tax Act and make life easier for taxpayers. So that\u2019s the process that we go through, and a wide range of people feed into that process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00228d2b8a1446004d9886928f547e5ebed5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d2b8a1446004d9886928f547e5ebed5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the next call, if I could ask members in the committee to be clearer with their questions. I appreciate the context because tax law is complicated, but having those clear questions will help the Minister to engage, and Speakers\u2019 rulings do guide us towards engagement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022 data-id=\u00222afc5b78c9514246bcd72c15a654ab0f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222afc5b78c9514246bcd72c15a654ab0f\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I had a couple more questions going through this legislation. My questions are around clause 53B, new Subparts FP 20, FP 21, and also FP 23. So I\u2019ll just go through them. FP 20, my question is around\u2014and look, as I think a lot of people involved in this debate are not tax lawyers, so I will repeat that I\u2019m not a tax lawyer. My question on FP 20(c), \u201Cthe period of 8 weeks starting on the date the emergency event begins\u201D. Now, I just wanted to clarify my understanding of that. Does that mean that if an emergency event goes on for longer than eight weeks, the section doesn\u2019t apply? Or is it just the eight-week period that does apply, or just the event going over eight weeks invalidates the whole period? So that\u2019s my first question around that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EMy second question around new Subpart FP 20 is: is the eight-week period\u2014oh, well, I\u2019ve answered my own question by reading it. It\u2019s the one that\u2019s already been defined by legislation. So I\u2019ll move on to new Subpart FP 21. My question is around FP 21(2), and that\u2019s the section which starts by saying, \u201CBenefits satisfying subsection (1) that would, in the absence of this section, be fringe benefits\u201D. So my question is: why has that threshold been chosen\u2014the $5,000 threshold? Is that the one that\u2019s already in the parent legislation, or is that the one that the Minister of Revenue has had advice on that that\u2019s the appropriate measure? I\u2019m just curious. I\u2019ve never engaged with the fringe benefit tax system in any way, so curious for an answer for why it\u2019s specifically $5,000 that\u2019s been chosen as the threshold.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EMy third question is around new Subpart FP 23: \u201CLivestock destroyed because of emergency events\u201D. Now, my question is new Subpart FP 23(1)(c) around the issue of mixed-age female breeding animals that the person expects to have had at the end of the income year. Why is it 75\u00A0percent\u2014the threshold that has been chosen? I mean I\u2019m not an agriculture person either, so I\u2019m curious why it\u2019s 75 percent. Is that what the standard should be for if you\u2019re trying to breed mixed-age animals? Is that the minimum ratio of female animals you need to have?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003ESo just reiterating my questions. The first was new Subpart FP 20, which was around the eight weeks. The first question was what are the implications of going over the eight-week period? Does that mean that the relief might be invalidated or does it just go up to the eight weeks? The second question around new Subpart FP 21 was why was $5,000 the one that was chosen? And my last question was around new Subpart FP 23 around livestock destruction and the question of mixed-age female breeding animals\u2014why was it 75 percent? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u002284c1e611851741b2a34063bef96120e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284c1e611851741b2a34063bef96120e2\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. The $5,000 threshold was the amount that the Finance and Expenditure Committee and also officials thought was the appropriate number for that circumstance. The eight-week question is in regards to new section FP\u00A020, and, obviously, my response there was for FP\u00A021(2). Eight weeks is a cap. It can go beyond that, but the eight weeks is a period of exempt income.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not necessarily sure on the question in regards to the gender issues between bulls and cows.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf3e44ce647444ea927874dbfc70b966\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf3e44ce647444ea927874dbfc70b966\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00222a0e8b9ec072405e9cd0f6edf0a6f5c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a0e8b9ec072405e9cd0f6edf0a6f5c9\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E There is a really important question which is going begging in this, and that is: what is the definition of an emergency event? Obviously, we need to know what an emergency event is. Typically, in terms of getting a definition of a term, it\u2019s Part Y of the Act, but often, in subparts, the subpart of an Act will have its own definitions within it. So new section FP 3, inserted by clause 53B, has got a series of definitions: affected class, affected depreciable property, and so on. It doesn\u2019t have a definition of an emergency event in there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI went to Part Y of the Act and looked for it there, and it\u2019s not in Part Y of the Act. But the curious thing is that if we look at FP 1\u2014in fact, lots of the new sections\u2014it has a little line beneath it. I\u2019m just going to take people\u2014and I really do want people to look at this\u2014to FP 1(3). It says, \u201CSection FP 3 contains the definitions relevant for the subpart.\u201D, and then, immediately underneath it, there\u2019s a line that says, \u201CDefined in this Act: affected property, depreciable property, emergency event, exempt income, fringe benefit, land\u201D Now, when it says, \u201Cthis Act\u201D, it\u2019s referring to the Income Tax Act. But when I went to the Income Tax Act, I could find no definition of emergency event. So I looked through this bill and I looked for where a definition of an emergency event was going to be inserted in the Act somewhere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, perhaps, I\u2019ve missed it\u2014perhaps there\u2019s something sitting in section Y 3. I\u2019m asking the Minister to perhaps point me to where it is sitting in section Y. It might be YA that it would go into. I did then trek on the way through, and it turns out that we\u2019re going to insert, in appropriate order, in the Tax Administration Act, the \u201Cemergency event\u201D, all right? So that\u2019s going to be an emergency event as defined in section 4 of the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act\u2014that\u2019s declared as a state emergency under the Act and so on. So there are some good rules there. These are sitting on page 131, as to how we actually do define the emergency event.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI just want to know whether that definition does or will actually sit within the Income Tax Act. In which case, we\u2019re going to need to take that out of that little\u2014it\u2019s not part of the law per se; it\u2019s just the way that it\u2019s written up. It\u2019s got to be taken out of there. So, if the Minister could just clarify that, around the definition of an emergency event.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc80b412668948059ca35783ac7348be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc80b412668948059ca35783ac7348be\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Just for the member\u2019s interest\u2014and, of course, all those watching at home\u2014about where the definition sits, it\u2019s actually defined in section 4 of the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act 2002. It\u2019s a Government-wide definition, and that is where the definition of an emergency event resides.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u002285b440872c094315ac6f54c6483c5804\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285b440872c094315ac6f54c6483c5804\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I actually just have two short questions for the Minister of Revenue on this part, on clause 53B. I think one of the ones is we have seen sort of consistently throughout this particular part\u2014new section FP 5(1), to give you an example. I wanted to check with the Minister if it\u2019s the standard definition of a person in this case. Are we referring to a legal person? Even if you\u2019re looking at it, often it is phrased as \u201Ca person or persons\u201D. So what happens when you have, like, for example, \u201Cowns affected revenue property\u201D, but that particular property is owned by more than one person? Does a person, either as a legal entity or as an individual person, cover the idea of a couple, but also in terms of a trust or a trustee? I\u2019m not seeing any other\u2014and potentially it\u2019s in the principal Act, which I haven\u2019t checked yet. So that\u2019s my first question; it\u2019s on the definition of a person where it goes beyond an individual and covers others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe second part: I also just want to pick up on new section FP 21, inserted by clause 53B. Thank you so much, Minister, for responding to the eight weeks question by my colleague Francisco Hernandez. But I also wanted to check\u2014these new sections from FP 20 to FP 22 are very much around employment-related relief, but what I\u2019m not seeing in this particular section is beneficiary-related relief. I want to check with the Minister whether there are also going to be other forms of relief for beneficiaries, and if it is already covered in existing provisions, whether it is around receiving benefits that would be considered fringe tax in the absence of an emergency event, etc.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ESo those are my two questions: the definition of a person, which we see throughout this entire section, and is there a particular section or consideration for beneficiary-related relief?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc50b777696b43bcadaf64d0e7c0ca40\u0022\u003ERachel Boyack\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022432b781613014d85a8696f9c54944ab2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022432b781613014d85a8696f9c54944ab2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Rachel Brooking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u00223b8e6eb04748418ca5592d560080e36d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b8e6eb04748418ca5592d560080e36d\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, thank you. I just want to reflect on the question from\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cd3b4b9174c4af3b086030434f9fe81\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry\u2014Rachel Boyack. Sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201eec3c715824012977c3c9fe923da8a\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I thought I might have heard \u201CBrooking\u201D, the other \u201CSouth Island Rachel B\u201D from the Labour caucus. I\u2019m just responding to the Minister\u2019s response to the questions from my colleague Deborah Russell, and do just want your indulgence here for about 20 seconds on some context about why this is so important and why I\u2019m asking it as the MP for Nelson. It is around that definition of emergency event. In Nelson, we\u2019ve had a significant number of emergency declarations, but they have been at a local level, and I really want to get to the heart of the matter for me, which is the difference between a national emergency and a local emergency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EBear with me, but I\u2019m going to start with clause 117(6), on page 131 of the bill, where we do have this definition of an \u201Cemergency event\u201D, and it \u201Cmeans an emergency as defined in section 4 of the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act 2002 that is\u2014(i) declared as a state of emergency under that Act:\u201D, and then there are two further paragraphs related to the Biosecurity Act, which I\u2019ll just ignore for now. If I look at section 4, which the Minister referenced in his response to the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act, I\u2019ve just had a quick search, but I couldn\u2019t actually find a definition in that section. If I look at the commentary from the IRD from August 2024, it says here that \u201CFor the purposes of the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act, an emergency declaration is either:\u201D\u2014and this is quite critical to my question\u2014\u201Ca state of national emergency under section 66 of that Act, or a state of local emergency under section 68 of that Act.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EMy concern is that when I\u2019m reading through the bill, I can\u2019t actually get a clarity of definition about whether it includes\u2014I\u2019m going to assume it does include\u2014the nationwide emergency, because it would be bizarre if it didn\u2019t, given that that is the most serious level of emergency we can have. But as the Nelson MP, we\u2019ve had the Pigeon Valley fires, and we\u2019ve had the Nelson floods. They were significant local emergencies. We missed out on the bespoke legislation that went through the House a number of times, like Kaik\u014Dura, like the Auckland floods. Some of that legislation came to the select committee I was on, the Governance and Administration Committee, and there was representation from councils where we had had those local emergencies that actually had a similar impact to what occurred, for example, in Cyclone Gabrielle, but it was just on a local level.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo you can understand, in that context, why it\u2019s such an important question for me as a local MP. I want to be able to go back to my constituents in Nelson and say that, yes, this bill applies to them or, no, it doesn\u2019t, if we have those similar scenarios. I\u2019ve been trying to look through the various parts of the bill and the Minister\u2019s response, and I can\u2019t find it, so I really would appreciate a response from the Minister. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022763c0b967d5a4522a77e9bf3132cd5e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022763c0b967d5a4522a77e9bf3132cd5e0\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00228fb11346f17a444faa89883a92bb547b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228fb11346f17a444faa89883a92bb547b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman. I have a question for the Minister of Revenue relating to, I think, what is one of the most often asked questions of Government in the case of an emergency situation in terms of the taxation system, and that is the use of money interest question. Now, this bill, and the emergency provisions, does make changes through an amendment to section 183ABA of the Tax Administration Act, and that allows the commissioner to remit the use of money into interest following the declaration of an emergency event. This is a change in process only, according to the bill commentary, because, currently, the commissioner can choose not to charge interest on late payments. But this is something that obviously causes people a great deal of anxiety in the wake of a natural disaster, and that is usually done by an Order in Council. But the Order in Council power is going to be retained under the amendment which is in this bill, because it\u2019s saying there could be situations where it is not declared as an emergency under the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act of 2002. So I think that\u2019s a prudent backstop, to have that Order in Council backstop for the commissioner to be able to do that, in that rare event.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhat I would like to know is whether there are other provisions within these emergency measures where there\u2019s been policy advice or policy discussions that the Minister has had around where we may need to retain some of those backstop ways of putting in support in case the emergency event isn\u2019t declared in accordance within the definition that the Minister has spoken about when he has addressed other aspects of it. So in terms of that very important aspect of use of money interest, it\u2019s laid clear, but I just want to know whether that applies\u2014and it may well be in here and I\u2019ve missed it, but the Minister will be able to point us to it\u2014and whether those backstop provisions for using Orders in Council are retained in regard to other Inland Revenue supports that may be put in place in the wake of an emergency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022498e88003d2548c89dae026ab5f9a963\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00220b8d0571b7c741f6a67b521efd77053a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b8d0571b7c741f6a67b521efd77053a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Julie Anne Genter\u2014no, the Hon Simon Watts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u00224b71466b41484a43871f0cc39b5cc6b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b71466b41484a43871f0cc39b5cc6b7\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Sorry to the member the Hon Julie Anne Genter, but I\u2019ll just answer the question in regards to the emergency event point that was raised before. I think it was in regards to Rachel Boyack\u2019s point in the context of a specific example in her electorate. The clause states that it is a declared event. That can include national and local events. It will depend on the specific circumstances, but one would expect if it is of significant scale that triggers what is considered a local emergency, then, on that basis, it would be captured. But again, it\u2019s case by case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe question asked by the Hon Dr Megan Woods in the context of use of money interest around section 183 under the Tax Administration Act, the late payments portion\u2014I think the question was: did officials consider more broadly the application of that or whether that is included in the broader bill. The purpose of this bill fundamentally is to deal with emergency response and the related implications of that event, and that is what the officials have targeted in this case, and that\u2019s what the Finance and Expenditure Committee supported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u002209dd7df4da854ed08475fe2805a23643\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209dd7df4da854ed08475fe2805a23643\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Mr Chair. This is my first contribution and questions today in this debate. I just wanted to bring up the changes to the FamilyBoost tax credit which are in clause 91C, replacing section MH 3. This is really important to a number of constituents in my electorate, but just more broadly across the country, because access to support for early childhood education is so important for working families and the cost of childcare is incredibly high in New Zealand. Arguably, it\u2019s one of the single most effective things we could do to improve productivity and livelihoods for families is to make it universal, free, part of the public system, and more easily accessible. The Government\u2019s FamilyBoost tax credit, as I understand it, has actually not been claimed by the majority of people who are eligible for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo what I\u2019m interested in is whether these changes are estimated to make it easier for people to claim that credit. Has the IRD done any modelling? Are they keeping data on how many people are eligible? What work is the Government doing to ensure that people know that they are eligible, and will this simplify the process of accessing that support or will it make it more difficult? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI notice it\u2019s great that the Finance and Expenditure Committee made some changes to allow late filers to access the FamilyBoost tax credit. However, there are other changes that I\u2019m really not clear on whether it\u2019s going to make it more difficult or more easy or no change whatsoever in terms of families\u2019 ability to access that support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u00220729baad84544f35bbd8b4849d4cfc25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220729baad84544f35bbd8b4849d4cfc25\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thanks to the member the Hon Julie Anne Genter for the question. I acknowledge that the question was going more broadly in terms of the policy intent. But when the policy was brought in, there was an estimate by officials around 100,000 families that would be eligible in that context. Obviously, you\u2019d appreciate that the estimation of that is reliant on how many children that families have and all that, which is a moving feast, obviously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIn the context of the registrations: to date, it\u2019s sitting at around 70,000 of that. So that\u2019s a good way there\u2014it\u2019s more than a majority in that context. The IRD are working actively through their operational matters to increase that number, and it\u2019s something we\u2019re monitoring very closely. But the purpose of this clause is just to deal with some of the more remedial matters that were identified as part of that legislation to make sure it works appropriately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0e6213bfa364ed3babf951219d81c5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0e6213bfa364ed3babf951219d81c5a\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to ask another livestock-related question. It\u2019s part of the emergency relief measures and it\u2019s new Subpart FP 23 as part of Subpart FP. This one is to do with income spreading for forced livestock sales. Now, it\u2019s interesting because, of course, there are already provisions within the Income Tax Act for primary producers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262313b9fe2604262b5241c0dc821b428\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: What section is this again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236fd28a558b34e939fb0e38a86d7a32d\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s this? Oh, sorry, it\u2019s clause 53B that introduces all the emergency provisions, but it\u2019s new Subpart FP 23 within that. And it\u2019s on page 84 of the bill if you\u2019re looking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo there are already existing provisions that allow farmers and some other primary producers\u2014I\u2019d have to go and look it up to know exactly what\u2014to spread their income over a number of years. And that income-spreading provision is in there for a very good reason. It\u2019s because farming, by its nature, can be afflicted by real ups and downs due to the climate and to things like droughts and so on. So farmers already have the ability to spread their income over a number of years. So why, then, was it thought necessary to add some extra provisions in new Subpart FP 23 to allow another sort of spreading of income over years? Why weren\u2019t the existing provisions good enough? What needed to be done to make sure that this better reflected what needed to happen in an emergency situation? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, I appreciate it means that they\u2019ll still return all the income over a number of years and so on. That\u2019s not going to change the amount of income they return, but it will change the amount of tax they pay\u2014that\u2019s the point of the income-spreading provisions. But as a policy-type question, I guess, but also a technical one: why weren\u2019t the existing provisions good enough? Why did we have to add in these extra provisions to cope with that situation for farmers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022a931e2d7b887409ebfed6f7d4521f0d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a931e2d7b887409ebfed6f7d4521f0d5\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I have two quick questions for the Minister of Revenue, and I wanted also to thank the Minister for responding to our questions in a concise manner as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe first question is on clause 53B, so still on emergency management, on new section FP 16, and both questions are relating to the presumption of duration or period. Now, with FP 16, I just want to get clarification from the Minister on paragraph (a). When we\u2019re looking at depreciation of property and value, it says that \u201Cthe item was used or available for use immediately before the restriction was imposed;\u201D. So let\u2019s say that there is a property or a chattel, or anything that is currently being restricted due to an emergency event\u2014you can\u2019t use it. The thing is that it mentions \u201Ccurrent year\u201D. So let\u2019s say if you were using the property at the beginning of the financial year on 1 April and then you were using it for a month, then in May, suddenly, you have an emergency event, you can\u2019t use that particular property from May onwards until, let\u2019s say, February or March the next year\u2014so, in fact, you haven\u2019t been able to use that for the majority of that financial year. Reading this, does that mean that just because you were able to use that property immediately before the event happened, the depreciated value was still applied despite the fact that you couldn\u2019t use it for most of the time? So I just want to get that clarification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe second part sort of in relation to what my colleague the Hon Julie Anne Genter mentioned, in terms of the FamilyBoost tax credit in clause 91C\u2014I\u2019m looking at 91C, the newly introduced new section MH 3, subsection (7), which is to do with \u201CSeparated persons\u201D. Again, it\u2019s the same thing that I\u2019m looking at in terms of the use of the phrase \u201Cat the end of that quarter\u201D. So if we have, let\u2019s say, a couple who separated at the beginning of that quarter and for most of that quarter the two parents are operating individually, therefore, they should technically be able to access the FamilyBoost credit. But if at the end of that quarter one of them or both of them has found another relationship partner, it means that, as read, one or both of them, if they have a relationship partner at the end of that quarter, even though they did not have one for most of that quarter, would no longer be eligible for a FamilyBoost tax credit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ESo I am just checking both of those questions\u2014one on depreciation, the value of property with restricted items during an emergency event, and the other one is to do with the definition of kind of, I guess, relationship partner status for separated persons, because that does affect potentially a lot of parents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u00223883c741c60c490580fc9364328f3172\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223883c741c60c490580fc9364328f3172\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I\u2019ll come back on the response to the question around livestock income spreading, which I know the members are eagerly anticipating!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ESo the purpose here is that the current way that the legislation is drafted is that it doesn\u2019t deal with the case of a large cull of livestock\u2014I appreciate that is what it is\u2014but the existing scheme isn\u2019t adequate for that scenario. Obviously, in the context of biosecurity and Mycoplasma bovis, a scenario or an event such as that, then the mechanism needs to be in place to deal with that scenario, and hence why we\u2019ve made the change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022 data-id=\u00226593b8caf68c413781e76ed56f8b0f82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226593b8caf68c413781e76ed56f8b0f82\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b8b2ac2e52914bc2a6beee83ff42d75b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4e3ec7c26aa45e18ad1df489501d0f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4e3ec7c26aa45e18ad1df489501d0f8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Minister\u2019s amendments to Part 2 set out on Amendment Paper 247 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002249c9bc3339e24fccad5c66152883d651\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 15\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ef12c6f869774a049395125657f6306d\u0022\u003EPart 3  Amendments to Tax Administration Act 1994\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022df25f84d0ea9443ca07906be4e72db73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df25f84d0ea9443ca07906be4e72db73\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to Part 3. This is a debate on clauses 116 to 153, \u201CAmendments to Tax Administration Act 1994\u201D. The question is that Part 3 stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u002295385112cca74eeb8ed2317d8e0781ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295385112cca74eeb8ed2317d8e0781ef\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you very much, Mr Chair. So Part 3, as noted, deals with amendments to the Tax Administration Act 1994. Obviously, the purposes of the Tax Administration Act is to outline how taxes will be applied. Thus, many of the amendments in Part 3 give effect to the discussions that we\u2019ve just had in regards to Part 2 and make other remedial changes. The main policy item that was not already covered in Part 2 is in regards to the crypto-asset reporting framework. We\u2019ve also got an Amendment Paper which amends part of the bill to introduce the administrative provisions that will support the introduction of the Government\u2019s final year fees-free policy, the substantive provisions of which are included in the amendments to Part 5 of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022d468909558bd4b34b4ad1450bdb212fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d468909558bd4b34b4ad1450bdb212fe\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to start off with the crypto-asset reporting framework, and if you thought tax law was cryptic, well, then you try crypto-assets, because they\u2019re pretty tricky. There\u2019s some really interesting policy questions sitting around the crypto-asset reporting framework and it\u2019s around the automatic exchange of information, all right. So part of what these rules do is try to set up common reporting across jurisdictions about crypto-assets. Tax administrations worldwide are trying to retain visibility over income and investment earning opportunities, trying to understand where assets are flowing around the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EOrdinarily, I perhaps might have been able to thrash this out in select committee, except it\u2019s an issue that can\u2019t quite be thrashed out in select committee, and that\u2019s to do with the concern about information from New Zealand taxpayers with respect to crypto-assets flowing around the world. But we\u2019ve just had some pretty interesting developments in the United States of America with the new regime there and the extent to which the information that they are receiving gets shared to entities who ought not to have it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, look, in New Zealand, our staffers at Inland Revenue\u2014the people who work for us\u2014are bound by some pretty tight rules around what records they may or may not look at. Information that Inland Revenue holds should not escape from the bounds of Inland Revenue and, actually, mostly it simply just doesn\u2019t. It stays put there. Our tax officials are highly trustworthy. But we do know that, unfortunately\u2014well, however we might see it. But in the United States of America, which is part of this crypto-asset reporting framework, that information that goes to the US tax authority\u2014the name has escaped me. It\u2019s so late on a Thursday\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a07a4e2dec041b0a4cc0b90a5d57744\u0022\u003EHon Simon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: The IRS.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a45a48d5acf437dbdc60b1d7732774f\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: The IRS\u2014thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022766e892476464bec90151f3cc9c60cbf\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, even Deborah\u2019s weary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228238e97f1760496184a47dbf9f8b2b59\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: I am tired\u2014I am tired. It\u2019s the IRS. We know that\u2019s being shared now, or has been threatened to be shared with entities outside of the framework of the American Government, and, in particular, with entities and people who may not have been bound by the same restrictions around privacy and the like. I just wondered to what extent the Minister of Revenue has done any work around this or consulted his officials around it, given that we are now entering into this crypto-asset reporting framework, and, of course, we have other information-sharing schemes, as well. So I\u2019d welcome a comment on that from the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u002250fbce99958a43999927ad83d8444b08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250fbce99958a43999927ad83d8444b08\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, well, thank you very much to the member, and for those tuning in, we\u2019re on Part 3 of the income tax bill. We\u2019re into our seventh hour just in terms of the clock there. So buckle in, we\u2019re on to crypto-asset service providers, which is a great area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe member the Hon Dr Deborah Russell asked some questions in regards to consideration around what information and what consideration was given to other jurisdictions in regards to this policy. IRD does have a team that focuses solely on international tax and keeping an eye on what other countries are doing to make sure that we\u2019re fit for purpose. They did take on board feedback from a wide range of sources in order to make sure that the legislative changes for reporting of crypto-assets in the New Zealand legislation was best in class. I\u2019m very confident as Minister in the IRD ensuring that they\u2019ve done due diligence and due process. And, of course, the very competent Finance and Expenditure Committee led by Cameron Brewer also reviewed this bill. Actually, it might have been other members before that, of course, but they went through and I believe that they were very comfortable with this section as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00227e457b15740741b896cf9a9b113a1823\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e457b15740741b896cf9a9b113a1823\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to continue on with talking around the crypto-asset reporting framework, and so I thank the Minister of Revenue for that answer. I too have a very high regard for our officials in Inland Revenue and their standards of integrity and probity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI want to go to clause 117 of the bill\u2014so we\u2019re now in Part 3, so clause 117. It starts on page 129, but I actually want to look at clause 117(3), which amends section 3, and we\u2019re inserting in there the \u201CCARF document\u201D and saying what the \u201CCARF document\u201D means. It\u2019s the \u201CInternational Standards for Automatic Exchange of Information in Tax Matters:\u201D\u2014yada, yada, yada. But it\u2019s not a very\u2014I don\u2019t want to get too specific about this. But it gets amended from time to time, and it gets amended by the OECD and the Group of Twenty countries and is adopted by the OECD.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWhat, in effect, we\u2019re doing is we\u2019re outsourcing some of our tax law to the OECD. Now, we\u2019ve done that before and, again, I think it\u2019s probably appropriate to do it again. What is concerning here is that the CARF document is amended from time to time, so how is Inland Revenue going to be advising people who are affected by this that in fact the OECD document has been amended? There\u2019s a pretty good system at Inland Revenue for advising when there\u2019s new rules coming out, new interpretations, new policy statements, new case law, all coming out. But when we\u2019re waiting on an entity from overseas to adjust something, what is going to be the system for ensuring that people who are affected by this get to know that there has been a change in the underlying OECD document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u00222ac40d94589746b9b3df15f0e6aaaff1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ac40d94589746b9b3df15f0e6aaaff1\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E The clause that\u2019s being referred to here is clause 117(3), amending section 3 of the principal Act, the definition of \u201CCARF\u201D\u2014now, of course, just for those who have been watching, we\u2019ve been talking about livestock. We\u2019re not talking about that calf; we\u2019re talking about the crypto-asset reporting framework definition for the OECD\u2014just for some member\u2019s family that are watching at home, that might be getting excited at this point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ELook, as the member knows, there\u2019s a lot of information sharing that goes on between jurisdictions. This is a very routine piece of legislation around the format in which that information is shared. There is a lot of robust consideration around releasing any of that information, of course, but these things get updated regularly, as do a lot of these clauses, and this is simply reflecting those changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002220d8d3086fe34d979e481600cb556dea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220d8d3086fe34d979e481600cb556dea\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Carl Bates, is this a question? We\u2019re still having questions. We\u2019ve just started Part 3. Take your call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u002210a675d68b9d4736a0db8dab74a75c90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210a675d68b9d4736a0db8dab74a75c90\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff8d36644a504102845f33d6534826f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff8d36644a504102845f33d6534826f3\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you so much, Madam Chair. I was excited when I thought that Mr Carl Bates was actually going to take a call on Part 3. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI have a question for the Minister of Revenue\u2014I have, actually, a number of questions for the Minister on the Minister\u2019s Amendment Paper 247, specifically the new clause 118BA, \u201CNew section 7AAAA inserted\u201D, on the final-year fees-free scheme. To start with, just going through the supplementary analysis report (SAR)\u2014we have seen that in the SAR there are a number of limitations to this particular bill. I think the one that I\u2019m most interested in\u2014I mean, we understand there\u2019s a whole bunch of coalition agreements that have to be fulfilled, etc.\u2014is the constraint by the limited stakeholder engagement. My first question to the Minister is: what student bodies\u2014and particularly when we\u2019re looking at student bodies from disadvantaged communities like M\u0101ori and Pasifika student organisations\u2014has the Minister or officials consulted with this particular policy? That is, I guess, if you want to relate it, new section 7AAAA(1), on the administration of the final-year fees-free scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, going through the SAR, there are also a number of concerns, and I think two of the things that are quite concerning were the complete change of focus in terms of this particular policy, changing from encouraging participation in tertiary education to incentivising learners to finish their studies or training. Understandably, both are important, but by shifting this focus\u2014and the primary consideration of this is due to the overwhelming barrier for M\u0101ori and Pasifika students in terms of access to tertiary education. Has the Minister considered how we are going to be able to encourage participation in tertiary education as a result of these particular altered changes that we\u2019re making to this particular fees-free scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI think the next question is whether Te Tiriti o Waitangi analysis as well as the Waitangi Tribunal report on this precise point of the fees-free scheme shifting from a first-year fees-free scheme to the final fees-free scheme has been genuinely taken on board by the Ministers and by the Government when deciding this particular shift. In that same regard, then, what evidence, as part of the coalition agreement, when we\u2019re changing this, was used to determine that having the final-year fees-free scheme genuinely will have the kind of cost saving that the Government is looking for but also at the same time benefiting the students? So that\u2019s a lot of questions around the policy part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI do have a question on the specific section 7AAAA(2) around this, which is \u201CIf a person who receives an entitlement under the scheme \u2026 does not qualify for the entitlement under the eligibility requirements of the scheme, the person must immediately repay to the Commissioner\u201D. I want to focus on the phrase \u201Celigibility requirements\u201D. Now, one of the things we did also see in the SAR is the fact that it\u2019s going to be actually quite a high risk, considering the TEC\u2014and that\u2019s the Tertiary Education Commission\u2014will need a complete change of system when we\u2019re looking at administering this final-year free scheme, because it is not such a simple eligibility test. There are other tests as well that are required, particularly around the fact that it is not simply just people enrolling in the final-fee scheme; it is actually upon the completion of the learner\u2019s qualification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ESo, in that regard, what sort of evidence and advice has the Minister received that students are able to pay for that first year\u2014third year, I guess\u2014up front, or does the eligibility requirement mean that the students, like the current scheme, will still be able to get it up front but, should they not pass it, they need to then refund that to the commissioner\u2014which is how I\u2019m reading subsection (2) here? So those are quite a lot of questions there for the Minister to respond to in terms of the final-year fees-free scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022e07586cc5a3e406491569bde9ebf07ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e07586cc5a3e406491569bde9ebf07ec\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you to the member Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan for those questions. The member will appreciate that we are reviewing the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2024\u201425, Emergency Response, and Remedial Measures) Bill, and the policy decisions in regards to fees-free are interesting but not necessarily the role of Inland Revenue and, hence, the taxation bill to implement. This is about the implementation of those components that the IRD has responsibility for. The member asked me whether I have confidence in my department in the context of ensuring that the cost benefits and the way in which they do so is appropriate. Well, of course I do. They\u2019re one of the most effective entities operating in this space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe other question was around the submissions and whether there were any submissions from those within the tertiary sector or students. Well, as the member will know, there were 28 written submissions. I think the Finance and Expenditure Committee saw 16 of those in person. There was a wide range of input from a wide range of sectors, including experts, and we are comfortable that the views of those that are impacted in regards to the implementation of these tax rules have been appropriately captured through the work that\u2019s been done by both the select committee and the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u002286a14c7e5fb742c589b04686908258cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286a14c7e5fb742c589b04686908258cf\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019ve got some more questions on the crypto-asset reporting framework. I want to go to clause 150 of the bill; it\u2019s on page\u00A0146\u2014as we\u2019re trying to keep track of where we\u2019re all going on this! It\u2019s the clause that when it goes into the Tax Administration Act, will put the actual requirement for reporting on people who hold crypto-assets. Of course, it does also say that a crypto-asset user must report stuff to the relevant authorities and so on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EBut the question is, I suppose, a fairly straightforward one. We have a self-assessment system in New Zealand. We rely on people who are supposed to be taxed actually reporting their income themselves and taking the steps to report, themselves. Most of us get caught\u2014I shouldn\u2019t say \u201Ccaught\u201D\u2014in a tax net. It\u2019s a traditional phrase because we\u2019re earning salaries and wages and in it goes. But, in this case, we\u2019re looking at crypto-assets, which by their nature are cryptic and hard to track down. So I\u2019m just going to ask a little bit about how the Minister of Revenue anticipates that these particular reporting requirements will actually be policed and the extent to which Inland Revenue will be able to track down and require this reporting of people who actually do hold crypto-assets, whether he anticipates that, in fact, people will come forward and report on their own crypto-assets, or that Inland Revenue will have to employ various measures to try and track them down. If the Minister could just comment on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3c4a7733eec48eb81816c43262cdc59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3c4a7733eec48eb81816c43262cdc59\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Yeah, well, the member the Hon Dr Deborah Russell will be aware that IRD have a big and significant focus on compliance and integrity matters. They received additional funding by this Government to increase the amount of work\u2014that obviously includes the components around the crypto-assets framework. It\u2019d be fair to say that many taxpayers\u2014actually over 95 percent\u2014generally will comply without any problem, and that\u2019s because that is the appropriate mechanism. There is always a small or very few number of people that need a little bit of support to comply with their obligations. And for those that are blatantly avoiding or evading their tax, then IRD have the full weight of powers to be able to deal with those individuals and organisations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1daaaa7e884431a904454fbc18be38d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1daaaa7e884431a904454fbc18be38d\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E My final question on the crypto-asset reporting framework\u2014it\u2019s just one last thing I think that the committee ought to work through. I\u2019m going just a few pages back to clause 144\u2014it\u2019s on page 143\u2014and it\u2019s inserting new sections 142L and 142M into the Tax Administration Act. What\u2019s sitting in here are the penalties for non-compliance with the rules. There are various amounts sitting in here as to if they don\u2019t take reasonable care to comply with the requirements: $20,000 for the first time they do it, $40,000 for the second time they do it, and so on. Then up to a maximum of $100,000 a year for those particular penalties and so on. What I want to know from the Minister of Revenue is just how those particular penalties compare to other penalties in the Tax Administration Act. I can see that they\u2019re scaled in particular ways here, but usually we anticipate that people who are investing in crypto-assets are perhaps playing around with significant amounts of money, so I want to know how proportionate those penalties are, especially in relation to other penalties within the Tax Administration Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2e6017c8de0455fa816f1621f571cc8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2e6017c8de0455fa816f1621f571cc8\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member the Hon Dr Deborah Russell for the question. The member\u2019s right: the area of crypto-assets and the financial flows that relate to that are significant. There was in the region around US$1.4 billion of potential fraud and hacking of this currency at a global level, so there\u2019s a lot of money flowing through there. IRD do see this as an area of risk and hence have applied what they believe is proportionate penalties to deal with the scale of potential risk that they deal with, and they do that across all tax types.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u00223ab8238d40194ef99218a7e606c8ab6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ab8238d40194ef99218a7e606c8ab6d\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b60147cdf346429ca6d8a0c2c5d0f8d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b60147cdf346429ca6d8a0c2c5d0f8d2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to allow one more really specific question. Make sure it\u2019s specific. I\u2019m going to take one from Lawrence Xu-Nan, and we\u2019ll see how it goes. We\u2019ve actually spent quite a long time on this piece of legislation, albeit we haven\u2019t been on this part for so long. I will take a second one\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd5f51234a54453eb4d5bf792945c24e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Chair. We did clarify with the earlier Chair that the amount of time was not the issue; what mattered was whether the Minister was engaging, which of course the Minister is, and whether there was novel material being presented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d055938dd2c6418cb126820ae8210a26\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s exactly what I just said. I said I\u2019m going to gauge the questions to see how far we might go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a97930a263494ebea2129f514eafcaa6\u0022\u003EHon Dr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: But the time is irrelevant. The amount of time spent is irrelevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc882f828072470081cc37e41d91b92a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: What I\u2019ve just said is that we haven\u2019t had a lot of time on this part, so I\u2019ll be gauging the questions to see how we go. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9f173aee1334b27b7b60883b8af3161\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9f173aee1334b27b7b60883b8af3161\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you so much, Madam Chair. I understand that I asked the Minister of Revenue a lot of questions before, but there was one that I was really hoping to get clarification on. That is Amendment Paper 247, new clause 118BA, inserting new section 7AAAA(2). That is around whether the expectation is for students to pay up front and, if they don\u2019t finish their course, they\u2019re going to get refunded; or, if they don\u2019t finish the course, they have to pay the money back, or they need to complete the course first and then get a reimbursement. So that was my question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EMy question is actually one of curiosity, and this is mainly to do with the new clause 150B of Amendment Paper 247. New clause 150B is talking about \u201CPower to extend time for doing anything under Act\u201D. In terms of comparing this Act to the principal Act\u2014the Tax Administration Act 1994\u2014I\u2019m curious to know from the Minister: why was there the removal of the part \u201Cwithin a fixed time cannot be so or is not so done,\u201D. So the updated phrasing is, \u201CIf anything is required by or under this Act, the Income Tax Act 2007 \u2026\u201D\u2014etc., etc.\u2014\u201Cto be done by a taxpayer by a specified date or \u2026 within a fixed time,\u201D. But then there is a changing of wording from the existing one. I want to check with the Minister why the wording was changed, and what is the intent of this change of wording? That also applies to subsection (2) as well, in terms of the change of wording.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EFinally, considering that this is a replacement of section 226(1) and 226(2), and not specifying subsection (3), I just want to get reassurance from the Minister that anything that is done here by Order in Council is to consider secondary legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u002227e12e5cfef94323994aa47ae4f9ebe6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227e12e5cfef94323994aa47ae4f9ebe6\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, I want to touch on a matter that\u2019s associated with the new emergency provisions, the emergency response provisions, but it\u2019s a matter that\u2019s canvassed in the Tax Administration Act, not in the Income Tax Act. So it\u2019s very properly within Part 3 and we haven\u2019t touched on this previously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s clause 151B and it inserts a couple of new sections in the Tax Administration Act\u2014sorry, 151B on page 147. What this is to do with is when a person who is attempting to use these emergency relief provisions, when they must notify the commissioner by having actually used those emergency, or wanting to use those emergency, relief provisions. As people who\u2019ve been here all along\u2014my colleague Megan Woods talked about the use of money measures and so on. Obviously, if Inland Revenue doesn\u2019t receive money that it\u2019s expecting to receive, like provisional tax, it wants to know why, so it needs to be notified why that\u2019s happening and so on. So there\u2019s a variety of deadlines in there and they all look really appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EBut if I could direct the Minister of Revenue\u2019s attention to new section 226H, subsection (5) there, it says that \u201CThe Commissioner may allow the person to file a notice under this section at a later time if the Commissioner considers there are exceptional circumstances.\u201D I wonder if the Minister could just give us a little bit of an insight into what he would regard as being exceptional circumstances, given that these measures already allow a lot of relief for people who are caught up in emergencies. Now, obviously we try to look after people in those circumstances; there\u2019s already a lot of lenience in these provisions. What becomes \u201Cexceptional circumstances\u201D even in the context of an emergency?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0fea1728fe34917951bf7103305d448\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0fea1728fe34917951bf7103305d448\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Just answering the two questions that we\u2019ve had\u2014actually, I\u2019ll start with the last one in regards to new section 226H(5), inserted by clause 151B. One would appreciate that emergency events are fast moving, they are complex, and they are not always the same. What we are simply acknowledging in this case is that sometimes the circumstances do mean that the Commissioner of IRD, who is highly competent and experienced in dealing with this, has the ability to be able to make a call in regards to a scenario to allow decisions to be made quickly. I think that is the purpose of that clause, and that allows that commissioner to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIn regards to the questions by the member Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan in regards to students, just to clarify, students must complete the course, and once they\u2019ve completed their course, then they can apply for reimbursement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u00220043b0b8a1f143bba34a1db8e4aa119b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220043b0b8a1f143bba34a1db8e4aa119b\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222aa302b47cbb4879a986c1b422342507\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00221250edfa9eb94997b5702f9d88f55287\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221250edfa9eb94997b5702f9d88f55287\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Part 3 set out on Amendment Paper 247 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022de1a46232bd848b2b4493b811aeaeaa3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 3 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 21\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 3 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9de4c0d9f914ba6b36e338f376bb03d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9de4c0d9f914ba6b36e338f376bb03d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The time has come for me to report progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EProgress to be reported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1bca16698a0403e8668bded70415b6a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1bca16698a0403e8668bded70415b6a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, the committee has further considered the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2024\u201425, Emergency Response, and Remedial Measures) Bill and reports that it has made progress on the bill. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226e07fb92cc0844e19a6f288020bfdecc\u0022\u003ESpecial Debates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222f973ce3abe042c49f1d0a89088bbe03\u0022\u003EInquiry into Climate Adaptation\u2014Report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00227664d712c4c8435f8b888d5369e20b66\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227664d712c4c8435f8b888d5369e20b66\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of the report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the Inquiry into climate adaptation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EThe Finance and Expenditure Committee\u2019s report on the inquiry into climate adaptation presents an extensive set of recommendations designed to comprehensively guide New Zealand\u2019s strategic response to climate adaptation. When a notice of motion was moved in this House with cross-party support in May 2024, climate change Minister, the Hon Simon Watts, said, \u201Can enduring and long-term approach is needed to provide New Zealanders and the economy with certainty as the climate continues to change.\u201D Here in New Zealand, we are feeling the impacts of climate change and we are seeing more frequent and severe, damaging natural events such as flooding, storms, and landslips. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EIn the Upper Harbour electorate, which I represent, memories of Auckland\u2019s anniversary floods on 27 January 2023 remain raw. Houses remain unoccupied with liabilities yet to be settled; worse, we lost lives in Wairau Valley on Auckland\u2019s North Shore. Natural disasters are costly and we need to take steps to safeguard against loss and insure the things we value most: our communities, jobs, industries, and homes. We need to be prepared to withstand the impacts of climate change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EThe adaptation framework will set out the Government\u2019s approach to sharing the costs of preparing New Zealand for the impacts of climate change. It will help communities and businesses understand what investment is planned in their area\u2014for example, where the council will build flood protection infrastructure\u2014and what support will be available to help with recovery from events like slips or floods. It will also seek to improve the way we share information so everyone can make informed decisions about how they manage risks. The framework will guide decisions before a severe weather event happens and responses afterwards, meaning we won\u2019t have to start from scratch every time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EJust on that, work by this coalition Government is already under way. One example is the centrepiece of the, dare I say, Taxation (Annual Rates for 2024\u201425, Emergency Response, and Remedial Measures) Bill, which has been going through the committee of the whole House stage, as viewers will know. The pending change in this bill will create a generic set of response measures that can be activated by Order in Council to provide tax relief to people affected in emergency events such as earthquakes, cyclones, and flooding. That will give greater certainty and relief sooner than legislative tax changes having to be put through the House post event. The bill also allows Inland Revenue to share information with other agencies, upon request, to help them carry out their roles in providing emergency assistance, such as the Ministry of Health.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EThe inquiry into climate adaptation was referred to the Finance and Expenditure Committee with the No. 1 term of reference stating, \u201C(1) The purpose of the inquiry is to develop and recommend high-level objectives and principles for the design of a climate change adaptation model for New Zealand, to support the development of policy and legislation to address climate adaptation.\u201D That was the No. 1 term of reference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EThe committee, in its report back, recommends a climate adaptation framework that minimises long-term fiscal and societal costs, ensures predictable and fair responses for property owners, and improves access to quality climate-risk information. Key in the report back from the Finance and Expenditure Committee\u2019s inquiry is that it included recommending to the Government that the climate adaptation framework should have the following objectives: minimising expected long-term costs; ensuring that responses and funding support to property owners, if any, are predictable, principled, fair, and rules based wherever possible; improving information flows about climate risks and responses; addressing market failures and supporting market efficiency; achieving a balance between central government leadership and community-led approaches. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EAnother recommendation was ensuring that people have the incentive and the ability to manage risk, reducing hardship, supporting an equitable approach, and, of course, upholding the Treaty of Waitangi. These are all explicitly explained and extrapolated in the report that\u2019s available on the parliamentary website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EThe committee strongly believes that the principles guiding the framework must include fairness and equity, national consistency, local flexibility, and accountability. It should also promote transparency, minimise moral hazard, and support evidence-based decision-making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EThe report back by the Finance and Expenditure Committee calls for addressing market failures, balancing central government leadership with community-led approaches\u2014something that\u2019s been talked about a lot in the last two or three years\u2014and ensuring individuals and financial institutions are incentivised to manage risks. Again, the report back stresses the importance of balancing centralised government leadership with decentralised community-led actions, promoting local empowerment, and responsiveness to unique regional and local conditions, with the committee\u2019s report calling for explicit legislative clarity to delineate the responsibilities between local government and central government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EAs an aside, the Government\u2019s emergency response legislation this term, which will be shepherded through\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221874b36d99834b10a5da173f67ecf9b4\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll be working hard on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee84e402096841329d5495802529cced\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: And the deputy chair of the Governance and Administration Committee, Tim Costley, knows all about this. The Government\u2019s pending legislation on emergency response that we will see this term will address ongoing issues as well as to where the accountability and responsibility lies and how Government, iwi, and local government can work more cohesively and effectively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EThe committee believes it has fulfilled the inquiry\u2019s purpose to develop and recommend guiding objectives and principles for the design of the climate adaptation framework. We now look forward to the introduction of the legislation required to support that framework. As the climate change Minister, the Hon Simon Watts, said back in May 2024, 10 months ago, \u201CAn enduring and long-term approach is needed to provide New Zealanders and the economy with certainty as the climate continues to change.\u201D, and here in New Zealand we continue to see the impacts of climate change, with more frequent and severe damaging natural events such as flooding, storms, and landslips. The timing of this is perfect, it\u2019s important, it\u2019s critical for the Shaky Isles. So we now look forward to the introduction of the legislation required to support the framework that the select committee has recommended in its inquiry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s with great pleasure, on behalf of the Finance and Expenditure Committee\u2019s past and present members, that I commend the committee\u2019s report to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002226e08487027041878f53c4f7f5816f0f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226e08487027041878f53c4f7f5816f0f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022e14f1fcb5d3043caa66470cd7f6ce7c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e14f1fcb5d3043caa66470cd7f6ce7c5\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I recall quite clearly the Friday evening\u2014and I\u2019m sure that many of my colleagues in this House do\u2014of Auckland Anniversary Weekend a couple of years ago, when the skies just opened and the water flooded down. I sat looking at our deck and it was just like a tap had opened. It wasn\u2019t rain. I\u2019m sure that was a common experience for many people here. My neighbours\u2019 houses slipped away, quite literally, just a few properties down from ours in Titirangi. Roads were destroyed. Horribly, lives were lost. What we know is that those Auckland Anniversary Weekend floods were because of a huge stream of water coming in tropics, and it is highly, highly probable that it was strongly affected by climate change. Then, just mere weeks later, Cyclone Gabrielle hanging for days, it seemed, over Hawke\u2019s Bay and East Cape, and those winds and rains just pummelling the region. Of course, that was on top of Cyclone Hale just a few weeks earlier. The loss of life was tragic. The devastation was incredible. Climate change is here, it is real, it is affecting us now, and we need to take action\u2014action to reduce the gases that are causing climate change, and action to adapt to climate change. That is what this report is about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWhat we have tried to do in the Finance and Expenditure Committee is to provide some high-level guidance as to how we should go about adapting to climate change; some principles. One critical principle\u2014which, contrary to the previous speaker, Cameron Brewer, is not mentioned in the Government\u2019s response to our report\u2014one critical feature is: ensuring that the Treaty is honoured, that we take notice and that we use m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori and that we actually contemplate the particular issues for M\u0101ori that are caused by climate change. M\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori will tell us about the climate, the knowledge of 1,000 years here. It tells us where the flood plains are, where the weak points are. M\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori has that knowledge that we can use. The particular issues concern M\u0101ori land, some of it more fragile than land that is held by those of us who\u2019ve come to this country later. It concerns urup\u0101. It concerns M\u0101ori communities that need to be moved. We must take explicit mention of M\u0101ori in our response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EDespite the Government saying that we have to have a commitment to, I guess, fairness in terms of the costs that are paid, in the Government\u2019s response, we need to see more of an analysis based on a word that is hardly ever used in New Zealand: class. Poor people are already hit harder by climate change. Poor people already live in areas where housing is cheaper, housing that is cheaper because it is on flood plains or in areas that are swampy that are already affected. To try to run a response to climate change that does not take notice of the fact that some people are affected worse than others because the property they hold can\u2019t be sold\u2014that is critical. If we think about South Dunedin, a poor community that people buy in to because that\u2019s where they can afford housing, because they can\u2019t afford to go up on to the hills, then they are already impoverished by our social systems and will be impoverished further by climate change. We must take notice of social equity in our response to climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EAbove all, we must enable people to take action. That\u2019s why those data flows are important. The simple actions that people can take every day so that they feel empowered, and the big action assessing the risks for the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s what we need to see: attention to M\u0101ori, attention to class, and attention to information. That\u2019s what I\u2019m looking for from this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef534bf8a76548e5ac40ff0977070cbe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef534bf8a76548e5ac40ff0977070cbe\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yeah, I think it\u2019s appropriate that we\u2019re discussing this today, given that it\u2019s been two years and one month since the anniversary of the North Island severe weather event\u2014as the previous speaker, the Hon Dr Deborah Russell, already articulated\u2014the Auckland floods, and then that was followed by Cyclone Gabrielle. Look, we need to acknowledge the importance of the emergency management response throughout these events, and not only the emergency management response themselves but also the clean-up crews that came to clean up the incredible damage that occurred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s in this context that we discuss the concept of adaptation, because adaptation is important to stop these emergency events getting even worse. Adaptation is important to make sure that we actually plan for events. We know that some communities out there are already leading and doing great mahi on the ground. I want to acknowledge the great work that the South Dunedin Future people are doing, and also local councils and regional councils, like the Otago Regional Council\u2019s climate change risk assessment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EWe know that every dollar spent on climate adaptation saves $5 to $20 in later costs. But we also know that mitigation is still the most effective form of adaptation. Every additional degree that we go beyond 1.5 degrees Celsius means increases in the intensity and frequency of temperature extremes, exacerbating droughts, and reaching critical climate tipping points, which may become irreversible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really proud of the way that the Finance and Expenditure Committee worked together on this. I was not the permanent representative on the committee\u2014my co-leader Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick was\u2014but I was occasionally subbed in and I saw the committee members, of all parties and of all stripes, working together because this is an issue that we need cross-party consensus on. We\u2019ve got an amazing template to base this on, which is the Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Act. That is the template to make sure that we pass an enduring cross-party law that can actually stand the test of time and endure different changes in Government. So we\u2019re really encouraged to hear the speech of Cameron Brewer, and we\u2019re encouraged to hear that the Government is trying to face the issue of climate adaptation. This is something that successive Governments haven\u2019t quite gotten right yet, and it\u2019s still not quite there yet, but we\u2019re here to help in the spirit of constructive engagement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EWhat would the Greens like to see in the zero carbon legislation, etc., in the context of climate adaptation? Well, first and foremost, we would like to see M\u0101ori centred as Treaty partners. M\u0101ori are already leading the way in many parts of New Zealand, and whenever an emergency management situation occurs, we always see M\u0101ori generously open up the marae and helping. We need to resource them and make sure that partnerships are being established to support the great work that\u2019s already happening, whether it\u2019s in the emergency response itself or it\u2019s in the research base that m\u0101tauranga science can give us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EWe want to see local government resourced with strong incentives, and expectations as well, to do land-use and adaptation planning. Individual risk management isn\u2019t an appropriate way forward when we can do land-use and adaptation planning, and equity and community-led approaches must be at the heart of this. Where appropriate, of course, the market will have a role, but there are holistic and moral judgments that markets cannot consider, and inequities that a purely market individualised-risk approach would exacerbate. Equitable and community-led approaches would also avoid the problem that centring a solution based on minimising long-term financial costs would create. We need to incorporate social and environmental costs rather than just relying fundamentally on bottom-line issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EAs one of the famous lines in New Zealand goes: show me the money. Now who will pay for this? We need to make sure that it is the people most responsible for climate change who pay. A model where the exacerbator pays is more appropriate with a course of adaptation, as is managed retreat rather than trying to move to a beneficiary-pays model, which doesn\u2019t actually account for historical inequities and\u2014as the previous speaker articulated\u2014class inequities that might have occurred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003ESo, in summing up, we\u2019re encouraged that the process has gotten this far. We\u2019re encouraged that the Government is extending the olive branch, and we really want to work with the Government and work with all parties on one of New Zealand\u2019s most critical climate issues. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u00226f5a474ac9b54da1a2b1ab161ad15a75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f5a474ac9b54da1a2b1ab161ad15a75\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wanted to acknowledge Cameron Brewer for bringing this document to the House today. I think it\u2019s a wonderful document. I haven\u2019t had the luxury of the time to read it all, but I do acknowledge Cameron Brewer and his team. Madam Speaker, as you\u2019d acknowledge, I\u2019m not a member of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, but periodically, as the previous speaker, Francisco Hernandez, just mentioned, I sit in on the process and I\u2019m cognisant of the very many issues that the member Cameron Brewer opened up on in his 10-minute speech in terms of climate adaptation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EA couple of notable points, if I can: I think we all agree, in the world of equanimity being the rule of the universe, we have two opposing forces. There\u2019s going to be an outcome, and sometimes it\u2019s the coastline of New Zealand. And New Zealand is a wonderful little country but it is subject to all manner of geological forces, including climate change. Out of interest, I thought I would learn a little bit on the hop, as you do, and try to ascertain what the length of the coastline was and the areas that are subject to coastal erosion, which comes up all the time, especially in this report. It\u2019s 15,000 kilometres in length. It\u2019s one-third the length of Australia, so there you are, for those that like numbers. Just to add a little bit more context, there is nearly 270,000 square kilometres of a little wee country that has all manner of coastal erosion to be dealt with. We have earthquakes, plate tectonics, and obviously volcanism. That\u2019s our story in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EThe real questions are\u2014as I rightly point out, I\u2019m not a member of this committee, but I\u2019m cognisant of the issues that have been brought to the House today\u2014how do we pay for it all? How do we, equally, protect the property rights of those most affected? And that is the reconciliation that I think Cameron Brewer and his team are grappling with\u2014no easy challenge, no easy feat, but I am sure, with people of a like mind in that committee, they will work through what climate adaptation looks like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003ENow, I think we agree on a couple of things. Climate adaptation and how we ameliorate the things to do with climate change happen in two sort of fashions. You know, climate change, by virtue, is either a gradual thing, depending on the geography and the area that you are surrounded by, or, in the case of coastal erosion, inundation can happen very, very quickly. So the real issue is: how do we put the protective mechanisms in place, the right regulatory barriers, the right investment strategies\u2014and it could involve private sector - public partnerships\u2014that help people that have a reluctance to move to invest in seawall technology or who could invest in levies for drainage and irrigation? All of that is something that we have to reconcile.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EA couple of notable points that my colleague Simon Court, who would normally be talking on such things, did sort of elucidate and offer to me: we can\u2019t have extreme examples as being the template of how we work through this. Periodically, we do have extreme weather events, and we can\u2019t afford, as a Parliament, to overly politicise them. More importantly, as Simon Court rightly pointed out to me in discussion, it\u2019s how we deal with the continuation of climate change\u2014it\u2019s been going on a long time\u2014and, evidently, as populations move into areas which are more heavily affected by it. We as a Parliament and the people that we represent have to balance those realities. So I\u2019ll tie off there\u2014it was an absolute privilege, again, to share a few thoughts, and I thank Mr Brewer and his very capable team\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229097e59c8bb4b57b35bfd9ffd2b003b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Cameron Brewer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed3dd653c55a4bb0ba919f2bbdf08466\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Cameron Brewer\u2014for bringing this very important document to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022 data-id=\u002292c00311084a4b9ab591d8e9f9f7164b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292c00311084a4b9ab591d8e9f9f7164b\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak on the Inquiry into climate adaptation. It was a very complex thing to be a part of. There are many views out there on the climate. There are long-term and short-term implications, but the exact nature and magnitude are uncertain, and what I would like to say today in this House is that some of the modelling that is used around the country\u2014we have this ridiculous representative concentration pathway 8.5, worst-case scenario model that is being used that is, basically, crippling the country. Using modelling like that will not get us forward here in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThis legislation\u2014what\u2019s going to be formed later in 2025\u2014is something this report will inform, so we\u2019re really happy that the recommendations and the guiding principles and objectives that have been put forward will help that piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EBut, again, we in this country will not change the climate profile. We\u2019ve got to be thinking about practical solutions. New Zealand First, as a party, are against pollution. We do not want to see our waterways wrecked; we don\u2019t want to see our air or soil destroyed. We want to look after those things, but we\u2019ve got to be practical about what we actually do. When you think about some of the issues that are happening around New Zealand at the moment, and if you go back in the decades around river control and getting a digger in and actually digging out and getting gravel extraction, we\u2019re actually creating problems for ourselves by not allowing simple, practical things to be delivered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EI\u2019m proud to be part of New Zealand First. Through the Provincial Growth Fund and the Regional Infrastructure Fund, we have put money into practical projects like river protection. Through the Parliamentary Library, I did a bit of research, and there have been over a hundred projects that those funds have actually gone into. Even if I think about where I\u2019m from in Marlborough, it\u2019s just simple projects in Spring Creek, for instance, where protection is needed, which will save a colossal amount of damage if the work isn\u2019t done. So New Zealand First is about those practical responses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EAlso, water storage: we know that some areas of New Zealand are getting drier and some places are getting wetter, and, again, it\u2019s using common sense in water storage and getting that into the right areas and investing into those right areas. So this response will form a framework and, again, what I want to emphasise is it\u2019s about risk and actually getting that balance right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThrough the submissions, we did hear about South Dunedin and also the West Coast, and with the Hon Mark Patterson, who is next to me, we actually travelled to the West Coast and talked to their council, and the planning that they need to do in certain areas to move infrastructure is something that the Government also needs to be well aware of and a part of that conversation. Through the inquiry, we heard about who should pay, whether it should be Government, local government, or individuals\u2019 insurance\u2014so it\u2019s getting that balance right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EAlso, one of the most important things is accessing information and who holds that data. That\u2019s going to be critical, and it\u2019s got to be information that\u2019s easily accessible to everybody. We\u2019ve had the experience, again, where I live in the Marlborough Sounds, of seeing the climate change, and the roading and the infrastructure that got destroyed there. But, again, it\u2019s about the practical solutions and working on ways to resilience in doing a better way forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EWe heard also through here from the submitters, and I\u2019ll just thank them. We had nearly 350 unique submitters, and nearly a thousand in total, but the one thing I want to do in my final 20 seconds is to go to the Ombudsman\u2019s information for us. He actually talked about a playbook and he talked about setting high levels of rules that were understood by everyone, including central government and local government, and, to me, that is what we all need. We want certainty and we want to know what actually happens when a disaster hits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u002269739b0b5db94de9a151f42de3c74baf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269739b0b5db94de9a151f42de3c74baf\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. First of all, I\u2019d like to also commend the Finance and Expenditure Committee for the work that they\u2019ve done and to Cameron Brewer and, I think, Stuart Smith prior. This is the second time that we\u2019ve had the privilege of hearing the Government recognise the upholding of Te Tiriti o Waitangi, and so I want to give real accolades to that acknowledgment. A critical part of us being able to look after each other in a crisis is actually just accepting who we are and the strengths that we have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EI really acknowledge that there was the movement towards community-led solutions. Part of the problem when we\u2019ve seen crises\u2014and I\u2019ve been to many of them\u2014has been the bureaucracy and the devolvement of funds in real time. I think that going down a pathway where the inquiry has acknowledged that finance needs to be released and it needs to be community-led, locally led, is really great.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EI think the framework has merit if it follows the recommendations of the climate change adaptation technical working group because I think it was really practical and they had some really great advisers. Some of the things that I\u2019d like to go into are investment. I agree, actually, with the previous speaker, Jamie Arbuckle, that everyone is looking\u2014and I can\u2019t believe this is Thursday afternoon\u2014for certainty and clarity at our worst time. I agree with the Greens that we\u2019re at a period where we are normalising adaptation speak and mitigation isn\u2019t a deal. It worries me that we\u2019re giving up the mitigation speak, because there are fossil fuel implications on climate, and I just want to put that there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EBut one of the things that we must do in order to reduce exposure to the at-risk communities, who are often hit the worst and take the longest to recover, is the responsibility and accountability to the regulators, those that are allowing the pollution in different aspects going on, and where the liability sits. I come from a decommissioning region where I\u2019ve seen it done really bad and really good, so I think those are aspects that need to be considered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EI want to talk about the Provincial Growth Fund. Actually, I was on the board that that initially came from, He Kai Kei Aku Ringa. It was a Regional Development Fund economic. What would be really great is to also seek consideration for those who cannot futureproof for insurance\u2014the businesses, the communities\u2014and be able to look at how regional development can be done in a way that looks at adaptation, not just from a business economic sense but a social economic sense. I think the regional commissioning agency models that we see in Wh\u0101nau Ora would work really well in adaptation models as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003ESome of the things that really plague M\u0101ori from being able to recover quick and rebuild things, such as papa k\u0101inga, are the financial mechanisms. The fact that we can\u2019t release capital for collectively owned land or for collectively owned businesses is problematic. And I think that helps economic recovery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EGovernment procurement processes also\u2014and, again, I know that this is, just thinking and looking ahead, problematic; in fact, it\u2019s damn right cumbersome, and, often, they are a wall versus a door. So I think some of these things need to be factored in when we\u2019re looking at reducing and addressing equity. I think, also, that some of the aspects that we\u2019ve heard and seen in some of the regional discussions post-crisis is the aspect of\u2014and why I talk about Government procurement are these public-private iwi partnerships. And it\u2019s been mentioned, all the way here, how iwi belong in the future planning, and I really love that m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori has been captured by the committee. The fact that it\u2019s ancient knowledge\u2014and they will say things such as \u201CDon\u2019t change the mauri of the awa.\u201D Now, that gets all sort of, \u201COh my gosh! Culture.\u201D Actually, what it means is, because there\u2019s context here, we had designers from the Northern Hemisphere trying to put designs into the Southern Hemisphere. You move it too much, and there\u2019s flooding. Those are some of the things we\u2019ve got. So it\u2019s lovely to hear that that\u2019s been agreed on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EBut the financial capacity to adapt long term needs to be the big aspect here. We\u2019re making decisions today for all of our grandchildren tomorrow, so I would hope that some of those aspects are, again, captured in the framework. I\u2019m aware that policy making is going on now, but the critical part of us being able to adapt and be able to prepare is that we loosen it up for all communities who are there firsthand and first of all, and that is a critical part of where we\u2019ve seen that the resourcing hasn\u2019t worked for a lot of our communities. Anyway, I appreciate all the work done. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf686832ef5244a2b3a137681c644b78\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf686832ef5244a2b3a137681c644b78\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a privilege to speak today as a Government member on the Finance and Expenditure Committee on our inquiry into climate adaptation. Now, I have to, firstly, say a huge thankyou to all the members on the select committee, including our former chair, Stuart Smith, and all the former members on the select committee who worked many hours on the inquiry into climate adaptation, including Catherine Wedd, who\u2019s always there, talking about the impact of the devastating disaster in her electorate in Tukituki. But also, too, the huge amount of work that the current members on the Finance and Expenditure Committee have been powering through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EHere I must also say a huge thankyou to the Minister of Climate Change, the Hon Simon Watts, because what he did\u2014and this is a little story within our inquiry, where he moved a motion to refer the inquiry of the climate adaptation from the Environment Committee to the Finance and Expenditure Committee for one reason: because the Finance and Expenditure Committee includes all members from all parties in this House. This is him and our Government trying to make sure that all opinions, all voices, from all parties representing all New Zealanders have a chance to raise their opinions and have their voices heard in the inquiry for the climate adaptation. So thank you, Minister of Climate Change, the Hon Simon Watts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003ENow, key findings of this inquiry: I summarised it into a few things, which were also already mentioned by the many speakers before me. Number one: the scale of the challenge for New Zealanders is enormous. Number two: there is confusion between the roles and responsibilities between central and local government, between private sector insurance, between individuals. Number three: who is paying for the challenge that we have in front of us? Number four: what about the managed retreat and also the at-risk properties? Number five: the role of M\u0101ori, and M\u0101ori communities. Number six: better data and transparency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003ESo what is the Government doing? From the inquiry on climate adaptation, the Government is demonstrating our commitment to ensuring that New Zealand has a comprehensive and a fair climate adaptation framework leading into the future. So in response to this inquiry, the Government is developing a 30-year national climate adaptation plan that provides a long-term direction for our country, establishing a lead agency to coordinate climate adaptation efforts. Number three: exploring new funding mechanisms, including public-private partnerships to invest in resilient infrastructure. Number four: reforming the RMA\u2014the Resource Management Act\u2014to ensure that future development does not occur in high-risk areas. Number five: reviewing options for a national property retreat strategy. Number six: investing in better climate data to help the many stakeholders that we have therefore mentioned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003ENow, this is all the big things that we have talked about during the inquiry about what the Government is doing, but what does it really mean for New Zealanders? Because I think most people who have tuned in on TV are just interested to know, \u201CWhat does it really mean for me?\u201D So, for many Kiwis, climate adaptation may seem very far and very huge, unless it\u2019s a disaster that hits you right on your doorstep or in your backyard or in your neighbour\u2019s, for that perspective. But it means the impact on homeowners who need clear policies on insurance risk and retreat. It means councils need funding certainty and legal clarity so they can plan for their infrastructure. It means farmers\u2019 land and water security have been under a lot of pressure and challenge due to climate shifts. It also means businesses need to know how to manage and plan for their supply chain disruptions and workforce stability. But it also means business, builders, and developers need certainty about where and how they can build in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003ESo adaptation that we\u2019ve been talking about is not just about responding to disasters; it is about making smarter investments today so that future generations in New Zealand can be more resilient, sustainable, and economically secure. So very, very lastly, if we do this well, across the parties across this House, we will minimise future costs and hardship, we will build stronger and safer communities, we will make decisions based on sound data and expert advice, and we will ensure that no community is left behind. So, therefore, I am very proud to be part of the team who completed this inquiry into climate adaptation. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u00221382b74673ca4e41b11f279eb717b23a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221382b74673ca4e41b11f279eb717b23a\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m glad that we can be in this House this afternoon to have this debate. Firstly, I really want to say thank you to the whole of the Parliament that we actually acknowledge that climate change is an issue, because we have to, of course, first admit there is a problem before we can do anything about it. So the fact we actually admit there is a problem\u2014those who have been through Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) will know about this\u2014we have to actually acknowledge it before we can find solutions and work together across the floor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286d722d5be08425da9d78f00575c4bc5\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not AA\u2014it\u2019s CC!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c39a9e38d6d348dfac34ab207532a8ad\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah! In Labour, we very much want to discuss and talk about the fact around how do we work across the floor. How do we reach out across the aisle? How do we have cross-party collaboration? Because we are too small, as a nation, to fight over this. We\u2019re too small, as a nation, to be able to afford this. And the climate is in too much of a crisis already: we haven\u2019t got time to continue the debate and continue to be in the partisan space. We need to work together to find solutions when it comes to climate adaptation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019ve read through the report and spent a couple of sessions sitting on the committee and listening to submitters, very much what I picked up was the urgency\u2014the urgency that we must take action but also the acknowledgment that we are actually looking at how we do work together on this. Because we need to consider our children, we need to consider our young people, who are the ones who will inherit the decisions that we make today, the decisions that we make this year, the decisions that we make in this election cycle\u2014around what the future will hold for our climate but also, of course, for our bank balance and the purse strings of the Government on the Treasury benches. How do we have the right finances in place to be able to deal with some of the huge challenges that are upon us?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI was looking through and saw that Statistics New Zealand has information about the challenge for properties\u2014for homes\u2014that sit close to rivers, that sit close to waterways. They predict that there are about 750,000 people and about 500,000 buildings, worth more than $145 billion, that are near rivers and on coastal areas that are exposed to extreme flooding. Now, that is a number that is mind-boggling, and that is a number that we cannot face on our own. We need to be looking at how we can work together to ensure that we find solutions. We must invest; we must make bold decisions today when it comes to mitigation but also, of course, when it comes to our carbon emissions into the atmosphere. How do we bring that down?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EWe live in the most beautiful part of the world. We live in this beautiful and amazing part of planet Earth, but we are so vulnerable here. We are so vulnerable as a small nation, as an island at the bottom of the Pacific. As I look at this piece of work, I\u2019m grateful for the work that\u2019s been done. But also, we need to consider our neighbours in this. We need to consider our Pacific wh\u0101nau, because they are at risk, if not more than us, in terms of this. So it\u2019s not only about us considering ourselves and what we do around climate adaptation; it\u2019s also how do we be good neighbours in all of this? That\u2019s veering off the report, I know, but it\u2019s just a challenge to myself and to this House: how do we actually look beyond ourselves to ensure that our neighbours\u2014that our wh\u0101nau in the Pacific\u2014are finding solutions as well?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ESo what is our response? This report has some thoughtful and some challenging things to say. And then what is our response? It\u2019s around money. It\u2019s around ensuring that we make bold decisions. It\u2019s around the structures of councils and Governments. But one thing we need to consider is our responsibility as citizens of Aotearoa and as citizens of the world. What are we going to do in terms of looking at climate adaptation? What are we going to do today for our children and for our young people that is bold, so that tomorrow, when they step into this building, when they step in to the Treasury benches, when they look at our farms and look at our communities, that they say thank you to us as a Parliament for being bold and for doing the right thing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u0022f55d797db5ce4b2ea56e25bea0a58baa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f55d797db5ce4b2ea56e25bea0a58baa\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to make a contribution in this unique debate today. I wish to start out by saying that climate change is here. It\u2019s real. Businesses know it, farmers know it, our export markets know it, our Pacific neighbours know it, and our communities know it. It is a significant issue already, as we\u2019ve heard today, and I want to acknowledge the anniversary floods caused by Cyclone Gabrielle just over two years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EMy electorate knows it too. The Northcote electorate was one of the most impacted areas in Auckland in terms of the number of businesses and the number of homes impacted by the floods, and there were, in fact, as my colleague Cameron Brewer pointed out, two lives that were lost in the Wairau Valley area. So this an important issue for New Zealand to face.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EThere are, in my view, two paths forward. The first is transitioning to net zero, and this Government has, as have previous Governments, committed to the net zero target in 2050. Our Minister of Climate Change has just released our targets and our aspirations to 2035.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EBut the second part of this is what brings us here today, and that is mitigation and adaptation. This is the focus of the inquiry. I would like to commend the Finance and Expenditure Committee, under the current leadership of Cameron Brewer and the past leadership of Stuart Smith, for shepherding this inquiry through the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EThis inquiry really is about developing a set of recommendations for climate adaptation. It\u2019s a model that\u2019s a bit of a framework. It\u2019s not the solution, but it provides us a good starting point for the future. It is about quantifying the problems for New Zealand\u2014who is responsible for what, how to fund, understanding the risk and the allocation of risk, and the information that needs to be shared.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EI myself am a practical environmentalist. I believe in pragmatic solutions to help address our environmental challenges, as do most of my colleagues, dare I say, on this side of the House. This inquiry made some really good practical recommendations around areas such as information sharing and making sure we\u2019ve got adequate information that\u2019s shared both locally and also at central government level. Ensuring that assets are priced according to the associated risk\u2014really what we\u2019re talking about here is physical assets; homes and businesses\u2014and if I look at my electorate of Northcote, there are areas where the insurance premiums are going to go up. They\u2019ve already gone up but they will go up to such a high rate that it makes them uninsurable. Because\u2014guess what! A lot of our councils approved, many years ago, the building of homes where we shouldn\u2019t have actually built them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EA third area is around incentives to reduce risk, and that is an important aspect to take as well. A fourth area is in responses and funding those responses, making sure that they are fair, predictable, rules based, and transparent. Again, I bring it back to my electorate of Northcote and the hundreds and hundreds of people who have been impacted and, to this day, suffer from mental distress because of the process they\u2019ve had to go through. I know our Minister for civil emergencies, Mark Mitchell, has done some reports into the best way to respond to civil emergencies, to provide clarity for those who are impacted, and this report touches on that as well. Finally, it talks about the roles and responsibilities of local communities, local government, the private sector, but also the Government as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ESo, in closing, I say that this is a tool in the tool box. We don\u2019t need more reports; we actually need action. So I\u2019m really proud of the work this Government is doing to ensure that we thrive. I commend this inquiry to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00225717c099bf9c49999cb03d5a1b09e9a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225717c099bf9c49999cb03d5a1b09e9a3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I begin by thanking the Finance and Expenditure Committee and, in particular, Stuart Smith. I know that Mr Smith has had a long-term interest in climate mitigation and adaptation and has been part of the cross-party groups like the GlobE Network, and he is respected for his role in that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ECan I begin by just recalling it\u2019s not so long ago that we had these rivers of rain\u2014absolutely phenomenal rain events. I can recall, in Auckland during one of those events, I was amazed to walk just down the bottom of my street, which has got quite a slope on it, to find that there were houses flooded at the bottom where Grey Lynn Park filled up with water. The river that was on the roads was absolutely phenomenal. About seven to 10 houses have been removed just from the bottom of my street. I was one of the first that was\u2014in fact, I think I was the first MP to go into Wairoa following the terrible events there. We flew up the Esk Valley. There\u2019s no way the Esk Valley can be protected by flood banks, because there\u2019s not enough room for flood banks as well as the other activities there. The tragedy in that area, and Ms Wedd\u2019s now-electorate\u2014you know, I remember Anna Lorck taking us around the Tukituki areas where the slash and the phenomenal waterflows had ruined so much there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe really know enough now to know that we\u2019ve got to follow the recommendations that are outlined in this report, which are, essentially, to protect, avoid, retreat, and accommodate. Now, in respect of the avoid, we really must be at the point where we\u2019re going to have some pretty strict rules about new risk being placed in areas where we know there is climate risk from flooding or landslips, and we must, I think, in this House, take responsibility to make it easier for councils to make those difficult decisions. Property information memoranda ought to be able to be readily changed by a council without them facing litigation risk from people who are dissatisfied that that impediment showing up on their property record somehow affects the value of their property. We\u2019ve got to inform the next purchaser of that land so that they can avoid risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of accommodation and retreat, I think we need to move on from theoretical constructs and actually have some practical examples. There are some councils around the country doing some fantastic work. In particular, the one that I\u2019m aware of\u2014because I\u2019m originally from there and I\u2019ve followed it through the years\u2014is the Dunedin City Council, with the Otago Regional Council. It is a very capable council through the decades, who have been grappling with these issues for South Dunedin. Some members of this House may not know that until the Hobson Street apartments and the like were built in Auckland, the most densely populated area in New Zealand was South Dunedin. Tiny little section sites, some of which were originally camping sites upon which houses were plonked, essentially, at ground level\u2014ground level being within a metre of sea level. Even when I was a child, before we had the sea-level rise issues, there have always been problems with digging drains in winter in South Dunedin, because the water table is so high.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, the council there has done some fantastic preparatory work. They\u2019ve already got their risk zone shown on maps, they\u2019ve already got rules that say that if you\u2019re going to build another building in those areas, another residential lot, it\u2019s got to be movable. It\u2019s got to be on piles that can be jacked up and taken away\u2014a very practical step. They\u2019ve now moved to identify the areas which are lowest that need to move first, and they\u2019ve identified that they\u2019ve got sports grounds in the area which are higher\u2014a metre or two higher\u2014and they\u2019re suggesting that the lowest areas should move to the sports grounds and the sports grounds should go to the low areas. It is very, very practical work that needs a bit of help from central government\u2014not a lot, but a little bit of help from central government\u2014to make it happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn addition to that, they\u2019ve purchased Forbury Park. Forbury Park was the lowest area. It\u2019s a former racing area that has been closed down\u2014an enormous area\u2014to act as a reservoir of water in big rain events. But also, in terms of the diagram that\u2019s shown on one of the pages here about how you accommodate climate change\u2014and they\u2019ve got some very interesting plans for low-cost housing on stilts so that it\u2019s more than the flood range away. You have your car downstairs and the house is on stilts, and when you do have a big event, it\u2019s not at risk of being flooded. That is a very practical example. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s another one in Westport that needs to be carried forward\u2014the relocation of the town\u2014and I think we have to experiment by doing now. Rather than writing more plans as to what we might do, we actually need to crack on and do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022 data-id=\u002261ec7239035841259e3f746c97e974e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261ec7239035841259e3f746c97e974e2\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Look, coming from the region which was absolutely devastated by Cyclone Gabrielle, Hawke\u2019s Bay, I was a strong supporter of this climate adaptation inquiry and I was really pleased to be part of the Finance and Expenditure Committee (FEC), which has directed some of the recommendations in this inquiry. I\u2019d just like to acknowledge Stuart Smith, who is the former chair of the FEC, who led the committee through this work, and that must be commended, and of course Cameron Brewer, now the chair, who has brought it to the House today for us to highlight how important it is to mitigate climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EIt is really pleasing to see the Minister of Climate Change, Simon Watts, looking at this inquiry to ensure that he directs some legislation to put in place a framework to ensure that we are prepared for climate change. It\u2019s also great to see the cross-party support across the House on this very, very important issue. I think we all agree that it can\u2019t come soon enough. I\u2019d also like to acknowledge in the House that it is important that we are being smarter, because I think we all see that we cannot continue to build houses on flood plains.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EI just want to take this moment to reflect on 14 February 2023, when Cyclone Gabrielle devastated the East Coast\u201411 lives were lost; thousands of lives were changed forever\u2014destroying livelihoods, homes, and properties across our region. I remember flying in a helicopter across Hawke\u2019s Bay days after the devastation, and it was harrowing, harrowing scenes. It was really, really emotional. I must say, there\u2019s an image that has always stuck with me: it was looking down at a home and the roof of a house, and there was a hole in the roof of the house. That family had struggled to get out of that house and they\u2019d had to push a hole into the roof and get out on the roof. They were rescued by Cameron Taylor, an incredible hero in our community, who rescued dozens of people that day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EIt could have been a lot worse, Cyclone Gabrielle, but it certainly wreaked a lot of havoc across the region\u2014some people estimate up to $14 billion worth of damage. The insurance claims alone were $1.79 billion, and the Government forked out billions and billions: roads; bridges; infrastructure; managed retreat category 3 buy-outs; silt removal and clean-up costs; flood protection; businesses, farmers, and financial assistance; and civil defence emergency pay-outs. And then there were the huge individual and private costs that are hard to quantify: the farmer clean-ups, the tracks, the diggers, the fences, and replanting crops. And then, of course, there were the uninsured properties, which of course, again, was really devastating. I was out recently with some homeowners who were uninsured, and they are still going through a lot. But the list goes on when we quantify the cost of these natural disasters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EMuch of the flood protection work in Hawke\u2019s Bay is still not complete. In fact, some of it hasn\u2019t even started\u2014hundreds of people in communities like Pakowhai are still waiting in limbo, because many of them are in the 2C category and work still needs to be done on the flood protection for them to be able to move on with their lives. Of course, then there\u2019s some of those families that are still going through the category 3 buy-outs. This is incredibly stressful. That\u2019s why it\u2019s really, really important that we have a framework in place to mitigate the risk of climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EThrough this inquiry, we talked about various areas; we looked into many areas. But one area\u2014and something that we recommend in the inquiry\u2014is looking at central government involvement versus locally led. This is something I think we need to draw on and learn from in terms of Christchurch and what happened there with a very much Government-led approach, to then Hawke\u2019s Bay with the locally led approach. We need to take learnings from that and find a balance in between. But I\u2019m really looking forward to this framework and the legislation that will be brought by Minister Simon Watts. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00222a019a4ca3144b99b9c362f0406b2028\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a019a4ca3144b99b9c362f0406b2028\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de97073edae545bdaa7c829488f7865f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. on 25 March.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 5.57 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025031399ca28538c734c368895d680a4a669d0000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"