"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eb1f35e2858a4b448bb3c19d5356beae\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 15 MAY 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220f93d9cf0ab94babb742958c1db4194e\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 15 MAY 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002289f91e8275ea4007a51d7e06b0880f53\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227ac758be533b45cba7ea1fe3e1a5cde9\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002243c14261169a443ab0638287ee498eb3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243c14261169a443ab0638287ee498eb3\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Assistant Speaker):\u003C/span\u003E E te Atua kaha rawa, ka tuku whakamoemiti atu m\u0101tou, m\u014D ng\u0101 karakia kua waihotia mai ki runga i a m\u0101tou. Ka waiho i \u014D m\u0101tou p\u0101nga whaiaro katoa ki te taha. Ka mihi m\u0101tou ki te K\u012Bngi, me te inoi atu m\u014D te \u0101rahitanga i roto i \u014D m\u0101tou whakaaroarohanga, kia m\u014Dhio ai, kia whakaiti ai t\u0101 m\u0101tou whakahaere i ng\u0101 take o te Whare nei, m\u014D te oranga, te maung\u0101rongo, me te aroha o Aotearoa. \u0100mene. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E[Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom and humility for the welfare, peace, and compassion of New Zealand. Amen.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d4ef270461754948959b23f551d17d31\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Rulings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002215fbdb1d3980404295c49504f550e951\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u2014Content of Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8129998f193404788e547b8fe9f052c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8129998f193404788e547b8fe9f052c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, yesterday, oral question No. 8 led the House into presenting itself in a less than favourable light. The content of the question led to numerous points of order, each referencing the Standing Orders and Speakers\u2019 rulings, presenting matters that were relevant but, on their own, contestable. I\u2019ve taken time to review the Hansard recording of these proceedings, and I will present to the House a new Speaker\u2019s ruling, which builds upon, although not exhaustively, Speakers\u2019 rulings 55/1, 56/4, 157/5, and 192/5, and Standing Order 390, and specifically, Standing Order 390(1)(c). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIn considering all of these points, I\u2019ve reached the conclusion that I should not have allowed question No. 8, although I note that no party raised issues with the question during the pre-publication period. It was reasonable, then, to reach the assumption that the House had accepted the content of the question, as the House is, of course, the architect of its own procedure. Nor should I have allowed the word used in response to the question to go unchecked. The member concerned may wish to think about a belated action to uphold the dignity of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThose who assist members in the preparation of questions need to be more rigid in restricting questions to the confines of all parts of Standing Order 390 and also the provisions around answers. Accordingly, I offer this new ruling to the House, which should bring together all of the matters that were raised yesterday in a fairly concise form.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe ruling is: \u201COral or written questions may ask a Minister if they agree with comments made in news or opinion articles or broadcasts, but cannot repeat comment if it is of a discreditable nature to any member of this House. The use of socially unacceptable language or profanity, even if relevant to authentication, in either questions or answers, is not permissible, and that has long been a position in this House.\u201D All other rulings on matters relating to Standing Order 390 are upheld. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002275e745b7c72240e88411ce170364b403\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275e745b7c72240e88411ce170364b403\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much; I\u2019m sure the House will benefit from that clarity. I have one question, just for everybody\u2019s understanding: is the restriction outlined in your new ruling in regards to members personally, not in regards to views or policies that they may hold?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002246d1387315104c2db73f7d2dc22ac61e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246d1387315104c2db73f7d2dc22ac61e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you raise immediately the need for there to be some discretion in the consideration of these matters, but if you take that situation yesterday, that was an article that very unreasonably attacked certain members in the House and characterised them in a way that is totally unacceptable. Those sorts of comments included in the question are now not going to be permitted. It would have been easy to ask the question simply if they agreed with the article. I hope that makes it clear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00229362e0bc66744d758bea05cf626193ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229362e0bc66744d758bea05cf626193ae\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, please. Mr Speaker, can I ask you as to which country the flags currently being flown outside of Parliament represent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002256dc0f80ab484796b17658cb8232df1d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256dc0f80ab484796b17658cb8232df1d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re not being flown at the moment, they\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab7bf3d3662a4a57b1b80cf00437e74d\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: Outrageous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237d30a208d584782bb3aa58480631ff2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Member, we\u2019re on a point of order; if the member wants to leave the House, he should do so voluntarily before he\u2019s asked to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThey\u2019re not being flown at the present time; they were there for a short recognition ceremony this morning that has been, as I understand it and I have been advised, undertaken for quite some years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e26465498086428ba9e3a9da21fc51df\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222b1fdea2929d4e77a1632a26644559b2\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022a887bc4e90fe4592903df5a0157f10f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a887bc4e90fe4592903df5a0157f10f4\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, can I also thank you for your ruling and the clarity around that. I think it will help the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn terms of next week, the House will consider the first reading of the Education and Training (Vocational Education and Training System) Amendment Bill and the second reading of the Employment Relations (Pay Deductions for Partial Strikes) Amendment Bill. Wednesday is a members\u2019 day, and, on Thursday, the Minister of Finance will deliver Budget 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022984e441d77bc4bee931b57ec27a980dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022984e441d77bc4bee931b57ec27a980dc\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Leader of the House for the update. Could he inform the House if the Government intends to move urgency following the Budget, and, if so, he might like to know that we have cleared our diaries on Friday and all of Saturday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022e88ef6246e5c40b1b234c3cdd87b3cbc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e88ef6246e5c40b1b234c3cdd87b3cbc\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. As I\u2019ve advised the Business Committee previously, there will be urgency, and I\u2019m looking forward to having a beer with him on Saturday night. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002205494dc571a64cfd97e6107f202311d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205494dc571a64cfd97e6107f202311d5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well, I\u2019m not sure I\u2019d be willing to join you\u2014but anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e613feddc64b4702a805934e4f25dbdd\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: You weren\u2019t invited.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e788ab865c0e489d8179bf8da030b0f3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s all right. This is my place\u2014you can either go or stay. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a6d6793cd71046a3917455e4d736e455\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, and Select Committee Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224644e74e835c4cb1a8f3b5b83b224861\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, and Select Committee Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00222ea1772b90b74566b927075aa773dd63\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ea1772b90b74566b927075aa773dd63\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation. I present the Register of Pecuniary and Other Specified Interests of Members of Parliament: Summary of annual returns as at 31 January 2025. I also present the following report of the Controller and Auditor-General entitled Oranga Tamariki: Inquiry into procurement and contract management. Those papers are published under the authority of the House. Ten select committee reports have been delivered for presentation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00227fd9e5fe92bb4e40bc5fef22e0c0f8cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227fd9e5fe92bb4e40bc5fef22e0c0f8cc\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReport of the Economic Development, Science, and Innovation Committee on its first scrutiny activities report for the 54th Parliament\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Education and Workforce Committee on its first scrutiny activities report for the 54th Parliament\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EController and Auditor-General, Draft Annual Plan 2025-26, and the\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ecommittee\u2019s first scrutiny activities report for the 54th Parliament\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Foreign Affairs, Defence, and Trade Committee on its first scrutiny activities report for the 54th Parliament\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Governance and Administration Committee on its first scrutiny activities report for the 54th Parliament\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Health Committee on the petition of Chris Gilmore\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Privileges Committee on the question of privilege concerning the conduct of four members during proceedings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Social Services and Community Committee on the:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Epetition of Ihorangi Ahi Bay Potiki Reweti Peters, and its \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Efirst scrutiny activities report for the 54th Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002244da4c66f5ba4be0acd7121bf070893d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244da4c66f5ba4be0acd7121bf070893d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The scrutiny activities reports and the report on the plan of the Controller and Auditor-General are set down for consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002296e55034b46c4ddbb7f3039b527c0275\u0022\u003EPrivilege\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ae5b5fa6f51d46a58b38c66758c23e3e\u0022\u003EFinal Report of the Privileges Committee\u2014Question of Privilege on Conduct of Members Causing Disruption During a Vote\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00225c1011b4c48f49ccbbdb0845fef5835d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c1011b4c48f49ccbbdb0845fef5835d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the final report of the Privileges Committee on the question of privilege concerning the conduct of four members during proceedings of the House has been presented. The report is set down for consideration on the next sitting day, which will be Tuesday. I\u2019m highlighting this for the House now because this is an important debate, and one that I\u2019m sure members will want to prepare for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIn this report, the committee\u2019s recommendation is that three members are punished for contempt. In each case, the recommended punishment is that the member be suspended from the service of the House, one for a period of seven days, and the other two for a period of 21 days. It might be interesting for some of the media who have reported to understand that it\u2019s a recommendation at this point as the House hasn\u2019t yet dealt with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThese punishments recommended by the committee are very severe and are unprecedented in this Parliament. As far as I\u2019m aware, since the House first met in 1854, no member who has been found guilty of contempt has been suspended for more than three days. I\u2019m also conscious that, unlike in previous such cases, suspension from the service of the House now carries a substantial financial penalty. The committee\u2019s recommendation therefore represents a significant development in the practice of the House. A proper opportunity for debate must be provided before the House arrives at a decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI also note that the committee\u2019s recommendation was adopted by a narrow majority. That is an important point when the effect of the recommendation would be to deprive members of a minority party of their ability to sit and vote in this House for several days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EAs the committee\u2019s report states, the Speaker has a duty to protect the rights of members of all sides of the House. In particular, there\u2019s a longstanding convention for Speakers to safeguard the fair treatment of the minority. I intend to honour that convention by ensuring the House does not take a decision next week without due consideration. In my view, these severe recommended penalties placed before the House for consideration mean it would be unreasonable to accept a closure motion until all perspectives and views had been very fully expressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI would next like to set out how I intend to apply Standing Order 255(2), which deals with the consideration of a report of the Privileges Committee. It provides that the chairperson, or a member of the committee, may move a motion that reflects the committee\u2019s recommendation. The motion may be amended, and an amendment is not required to reflect the recommendation, as long as the amendment is relevant and otherwise in order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EAs with many other situations when proposals are made to this House, it is not an all-or-nothing decision. I also note Standing Order 129, which provides that when an amendment has been moved, a member who spoke before the amendment was moved may speak again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f13ad13b9dc74246821685fea17b6652\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f13ad13b9dc74246821685fea17b6652\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. You outlined in your consideration that one of the matters that influenced you was the inability for those members to not be part of the Budget presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4d763c3a81843dcb11c63d8e95f99a8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f61b69a3fb4b43b38e9704aa0fd3f409\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, you did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022505e4f9df8f84aeaab338d30fcdc93ea\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t mention that. I simply said\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a2a4b63315c415289efa4b3fe9119e0\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019d be part of the debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f30286d698442009b962ebd2742aa1e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, just so you\u2019re clear, I said that the recommended penalties, if adopted by the House, would see the members suspended from the service of the House for several days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213445c1e392343c1bd9d1d2ad21c8d68\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: But the point is, if you go back to last year, they weren\u2019t in the House for the Budget then. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8834a3668264e50b8f18c5d340e17b6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s not the issue that I\u2019m dealing with. Point of order, the Hon Chris Bishop. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022924617d3223f4d7eb061817f52691840\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022924617d3223f4d7eb061817f52691840\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you for those remarks. Is it the case that it is your intention that the question that the report be adopted in relation to the Privileges Committee report into this matter will be put on Tuesday, because, just from a timetabling point of view, Wednesday is set down to be a members\u2019 day and, of course, Thursday is Budget day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4382a3fc2c44e94940a84c1bad9ff32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4382a3fc2c44e94940a84c1bad9ff32\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I\u2019m well aware of that, but the Standing Orders are that the report of a Privileges Committee is dealt with at the first opportunity, which is going to be some time just after 3 p.m. on Tuesday. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6446029cca04ecca2e9bc3dc440859c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6446029cca04ecca2e9bc3dc440859c\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Oceans and Fisheries):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. Just for clarity in terms of the House and those listening and watching, you are expecting a wide-ranging debate, potentially, involving the three people who did not turn up to the Privileges Committee but who may very well be in the House, and you are anticipating that they will put forward their perspectives as to why this punishment is unnecessary or severe? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022f34a29f6b5264de6a47a71d8764de763\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f34a29f6b5264de6a47a71d8764de763\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we are\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022769889c72db845ecb4cb87ab150f4dd3\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba70e7d9eca54ad7be2880e0a62501d1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, hang on\u2014just let me just respond to that. Firstly, there is a motion before the House which is debatable, so any member who is legitimately in the House may speak to it. I\u2019m making it clear to the House that it is an amendable motion, and it always has been under the Standing Orders. We\u2019ll go to the Rt Hon Winston Peters, and I\u2019ll come to the member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00226fda9897f9df407a897168750a7bf2c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226fda9897f9df407a897168750a7bf2c2\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. Are you saying that we\u2019re going to have a debate, and anybody can move an amendment if they wish to, but, at the end, are you going to put the motion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b97a069bb52496da15df53c8eb5e689\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, that always happens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232aeb6a26c53497980614ec9b5ac7e65\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Good\u2014thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d2eadc5e13c41239900c3512b7c0c24\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, hang on: whatever the motion is left on the floor of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u00225e5a74937f8e40e29df6b872ed8a1da9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e5a74937f8e40e29df6b872ed8a1da9\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Matarau\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Speaking to the point of order from Shane Jones, I just wanted to clarify with you that, when the point was made about the three members not attending the select committee, that was the statement that was made by Shane Jones, and, if that was the case, I didn\u2019t realise that they were required to attend the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4b046fadee948e4932f27b671d6161e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4b046fadee948e4932f27b671d6161e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, they\u2019re not\u2014no one is ever required to attend at the Privileges Committee, but they leave the result of that exercise in the hands of the committee. However, I\u2019ll make the point that no one at this point, despite what the media have been reporting, is suspended from this House, and will not be until there is a vote from the House indicating that that is to happen. So all members in this House can speak in this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00223c504100c0c6494aae4d52190d5258c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c504100c0c6494aae4d52190d5258c3\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. Thank you. As you\u2019ve pointed out, sir, this is, in terms of the recommendation, unprecedented and the House has not considered a proposal from the Privileges Committee of this ilk before, and, unlike other debates, every member has the right to speak. It is unusual in the sense that we are debating something that has not come from any particular caucus in this House, but from a committee, and it is a split recommendation. Given the significance, in order to get a true reflection of the House\u2019s views, would you consider a personal vote on the question being put, after that debate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022e703af3776fc46abae4b1f0b19b8b358\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e703af3776fc46abae4b1f0b19b8b358\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002202a0ee5bcdd24b49b0fd25db5265fd7d\u0022\u003EIntroduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227ccec43239a545b69c1daeae46391fd5\u0022\u003EIntroduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002223f92b72ace44969aa64cefa0a6dbbd2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223f92b72ace44969aa64cefa0a6dbbd2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No bills have been introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e2163b9d4587490c8d4e4829271b0b47\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225d8c88558ad6448f8492a5f2513a1c90\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fa75335a92014d779f3c7c797bcfc31f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u0022cdb6bcd5a36343208553308268faaaa5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cdb6bcd5a36343208553308268faaaa5\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: F\u1EA1i\u0227kse\u2019ea, Mr Speaker. Does she stand by her statement about the pay equity changes that \u201Cthe process that we have set up is fair. It\u2019s robust\u201D; if so, how is cancelling 33 pay equity claims under urgency fair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00220e76a302b1d94a84a8e38ec585930a0a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e76a302b1d94a84a8e38ec585930a0a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Associate Minister of Finance)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Finance: Yes, I stand by my statement. We\u2019ve made changes to the pay equity system that make it fairer and return it to its intended purpose: addressing gender-based pay discrimination. Despite what some may have suggested, any claims that have already been settled remain in place and fully funded. Claims that had not yet been settled under the old system have been discontinued because it is not practical to have two different systems operating at once. That would create uncertainty and unfairness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8fc911cf01a45738d40e53bdada4f2a\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Was accounting for the fiscal savings in her Budget the reason why urgency was used to cancel 33 active pay equity claims?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bbf5c3f08e84c0090577df0223476e3\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217c0775e96da41b39130ddad6faafca4\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: How does using urgency address the warning she received from Treasury officials on 14 December 2023 that \u201Cwhile it would be possible to legislate to apply any new process to existing claims, such a retrospective action would need to be justified\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022529cc2e60dd54c268589769bf282d57f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Government did think it was justified, which is why the Government legislated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a800305411974631958eb91ce88bcb12\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: How can she justify the cancellation of 180,000 workers\u2019 pay equity claims, when many, like secondary school teachers, will be locked out of lodging a claim under the new rules?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022239e6ef5e6c14fadbaaa58764e711a39\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Existing claims have been discontinued but the law has been reset to allow claims to be resubmitted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223108ba7304f349cb9a8667ab44d6be8c\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with advice from Treasury that \u201Camending the legislation in a way that had the potential to reduce the fiscal cost would be seen as a degradation of the rights of those female-dominated occupations that have not yet raised a claim\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022836ef47ea9284833b3e3a70b62625e7f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: No, because pay equity claims continue to exist. In fact, we have set aside money to honour existing claims that have been settled and future claims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f543adb6759c4d7887c370a1a690b2db\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she not take any action to protect the rights of those female-dominated occupations, given the warning from Treasury that those rights could be degraded, or was saving her Budget more important?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212f14d1b92da4ee68c67d0ec1a757bcd\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I disagree with the characterisation. Pay equity is important, as is the Equal Pay Act 1972, and we are honouring the commitments in that Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022de947645ae9947d599b47ea935139a98\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022d589363339574e0b882be546f024d106\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d589363339574e0b882be546f024d106\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen about tax and spending in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002269863d056dde4d6f86ebe897ad642c4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269863d056dde4d6f86ebe897ad642c4d\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Associate Minister of Finance)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve seen a number of reports about tax and spending. Some commentators say we should be taxing much more, spending much more, and borrowing much more, but to quote the words of a recent ANZ economist, New Zealand has recently been on a \u201Cdebt-funded spending spree\u201D. It\u2019s resulted in high inflation, higher mortgage payments, higher petrol prices, and eye-watering prices at the grocery store. Fundamentally, this economy does not need more taxes and irresponsible Government spending; it needs fiscal restraint.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296dd2eb1317f4eb0a6187e7f23037da0\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that net core Crown debt will not increase to 53.8 percent of GDP?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022731aad1361e64905b7d2567d82de1985\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Budget is only a week away, but I can confirm that. Under the Government\u2019s plan, debt is forecast to be 45.2 percent of GDP by 2028. It\u2019s interesting, the Treasury has recommended a debt-to-GDP ceiling of 50 percent. This is a ceiling rather than a target. Our fiscal headroom is our insurance policy. We need to be able to respond to future shocks like another pandemic or an earthquake. Sadly, some people do not share this view. I have seen some people suggest we should have a debt-to-GDP ratio of 53.8 percent. This would be irresponsible for New Zealand\u2019s future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd7b4c80cdfd49bb81072db9b3778e40\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Will he rule out $88.9 billion in new taxes on New Zealanders in Budget 2025?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207f41b0458724c26a2936baa76466369\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, indeed, I can rule out increasing taxes by $88.9 billion in new taxes in Budget 2025. At this time of global economic uncertainty, and with New Zealand exiting recession and entering a growth phase, the last thing this economy needs is a massive tax and spend Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee581dcb327142cca21a3d1c0effadd6\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Will he rule out a wealth tax and capital gains tax in Budget 2025?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a97b245fcee4f8ebf478f9db15c750e\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I\u2019m also happy to rule out an inheritance tax and, indeed, other taxes that other parties are proposing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223beb49536dda40bea2f52b5714e6bd79\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: What about a fun tax?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022496f3717c18e41b2a8b1325068ccbad6\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, the justice Minister asked me about a fun tax! I can also rule out a tax on fun. In fact, I can rule out all of those dangerous taxes that would put at risk our hard-won economic recovery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffea43ce1cc0407fb34158a5b4a7e000\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: So, on the issue of fiscal management, does he consider spending $88 billion and more over four years, yet still running a deficit, to be both tax and spend and \u201Cdebt and inept\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243272c383e2b43be9471b0240fd1ab8a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think the Rt Hon Winston Peters makes the point very adeptly, as he always does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022070156e98c3e4223a069a7aeb88e0b30\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u002248443e6a142a40db8cf0046e8d0c1339\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248443e6a142a40db8cf0046e8d0c1339\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he support GP services being free, publicly owned, and adequately resourced to reach underserved communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022b53964a9161d4b1780715b69ff41e9a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b53964a9161d4b1780715b69ff41e9a9\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Well, the member from the Green Party might be surprised to learn that our GP services are private businesses. Our Government is focused on ensuring GPs can deliver timely, quality healthcare for all New Zealanders. Our focus is on providing support to those with the greatest need. This includes maintaining zero fees for children under 14, offering reduced costs for low-income individuals with a community services card, and ensuring discounted access through the Very Low Cost Access Scheme. These initiatives help ensure that those living with the greatest need have access to GP services, and it comes on top of all of the work we\u2019re doing to grow the number of GPs in primary practice, such as increasing the number of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022140f1497175e4136ac4cbe9e692e1a17\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yep. Good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278e8dd3a0bd247288136b99e0cf5aaa4\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that one in six people avoid going to the GP because of cost, and, if so, what is he doing to reduce the cost of accessing care?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249da597893224a51816dba0bae67c7ce\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Government, as I said, is very focused on making sure that those who have the greatest need have access to primary care. And as I said, the Government does a number of things to support that access: maintaining zero fees for children under 14, offering reduced costs for low-income individuals and families with a community services card, and ensuring discounted access through the Very Low Cost Access Scheme. What I can tell the member, though, is that increasing taxes on general practitioners\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f54d792bcc7546f6a9170042dfcee1d3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014that\u2019s enough. Thank you. That last bit was unnecessary and shouldn\u2019t happen again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225896267787784b25a6e1760dd69d89e3\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think the current capitation funding model is successful at remedying health inequities, and, if not, what does he plan to do about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3756b55620f4c028df3741287178407\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the capitation funding is designed to ensure that we can increase access for primary practice. Health New Zealand and the Ministry of Health have got work under way to look at how it can be improved, to ensure we improve access for all New Zealanders to be able to access primary care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6f2326630db40e4878172bae5425de9\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Is he committed to ensuring that health inequities are addressed in the capitation funding model review that he has just spoken about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2fceded95d34999832fe5e78908ce07\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, look, the Ministry of Health and Health New Zealand have work under way which is focused on how we can improve access. But, as I said, there are a number of things the Government does to ensure those who have the greatest need are supported to access their GP\u2014as I said: free access for children under 14, offering reduced costs for low-income families with a community services card, and ensuring discounted access through the Very Low Cost Access Scheme. The Government does a number of things to support people who have the highest need to be able to access their GP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb283cab98ea42c1b5d6bf5c44cb95d8\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to grow the GP workforce and improve access to primary care?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e7c677db2d948a7a35cef826890099b\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, our Government is delivering on its commitment to strengthen GP clinics and put patients first. Over this term, medical school placements will increase by 100 places\u2014a major investment in growing our GP workforce and ensuring access to timely, quality healthcare for all New Zealanders. We\u2019re also funding 50 graduate doctors a year to train directly in GP clinics, helping to get more doctors into communities where they\u2019re needed the most.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8f7e74606714e5fb249c1649e193505\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he not maximise funding for GP training placements to 889 places by 2027?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022116e82b53adc4b0094cb5250b366196e\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we have, as I said, increased spaces by 100 medical training spaces over the course of this term of this Government. That is the biggest increase in many, many years\u2014about increasing medical training places through our universities. This Government is very focused on growing our workforce. We have more doctors at Health New Zealand, more nurses at Health New Zealand. We\u2019re very focused on increasing access to primary care as well so that people can get timely, quality access to healthcare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022056a98b02a3249e180cbd74b40524c44\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government commit to funding in greater amounts mobile healthcare clinics to access underserved areas such as South Auckland, to ensure people can be reconnected to GP services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcb3a8b023cc404e8d38dd6563f078f4\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I said, there\u2019s a number of things the Government is doing to increase access to GP services for those who need it the most. As I said, zero fees for children under 14, reduced fees for those families with a community services card, and ensuring discounted access through the Very Low Cost Access Scheme\u2014which I know serves a number of clinics in South Auckland\u2014so that people in those communities are able to access their GP at a low cost. We\u2019re very focused on targeting the Government\u2019s resources to maximise the benefit, rather than the Opposition\u2019s tactic, which is to tax more, borrow more, and spend more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccfc462ef11a4921908d40d6661fde24\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014hang on. I\u2019ve warned the member once, now twice. There won\u2019t be a third warning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221a6910cbdfd144a78017ce451a720915\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Women\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022625b45ac64f14148b2ef0860943e3701\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022625b45ac64f14148b2ef0860943e3701\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Women: Has she sought advice on the impact on closing the gender pay gap from moving the pay equity claim threshold from a 60 percent to a 70 percent female-dominated workforce; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022 data-id=\u00229c7df03a647e4e6b8532eb4a58cc92d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c7df03a647e4e6b8532eb4a58cc92d5\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG (Minister for Women):\u003C/span\u003E I receive a range of advice on the gender pay gap, and, indeed, closing the gap does remain a top priority for me. The gender pay gap, as I\u2019m sure the member will know, is a very complicated matter that can be caused by a number of factors, including organisational, sectorial, and indeed national. They can be addressed in a number of ways, not just through resolving pay equity claims. And regarding the threshold, I was advised that the majority of claims do meet the 70 percent threshold to be raised under the amended pay equity legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022796039251cec440b9961499d10358a09\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Has she sought advice on the gender pay gap implications of secondary teachers who have a 63.6 percent female-dominated workforce and will not meet the threshold for a pay equity claim under the changes that her Government has made to the legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c11249a096f244b7a742109a9788c1af\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in my first answer, I have received a range of advice. The great majority of the claims that have been paused can indeed restart because they do meet the 70 percent threshold, and I would encourage them to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ddbd7b0f3f44b8ba79e0782746f0bb9\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: How many workers will be able to proceed with their claims under the changed thresholds her Government has put into place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c00cb72adc5475ca1a013b041c89388\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: What I would say to that member is that there are, of course, a wide range of people who have been in the process of raising a claim. As, I think, the Minister responsible outlined to the House yesterday, it is estimated about 180,000 members of various unions have been part of previously raised pay equity claims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290a0887dc4264f0dab4e3eef1811bff7\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was very specific. We are all aware that 180,000 workers were covered by claims under the previous legislation. The Minister has been telling the House that very few people will be impacted by moving the threshold from 70 percent to 60 percent. I asked the Minister very specifically what that number now was. If she doesn\u2019t know, she can say that, but she did not address that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251ad521b3fae4177a9fd99ddfa1acc7b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: But the Minister doesn\u2019t have to accept the position that\u2019s been put in a supplementary question. Well, the reality is there are now no claims. They\u2019re all extinguished. So the question is: until new claims are lodged, how would you know what the numbers are?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dd665ba7d1a4a5498ba333d3910fc19\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Well, she could have said that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238112d60b1134bce9acc56e67ff89f3c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, she could have, but I caught on to it, and I\u2019m sure most of the House did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220219b597a9cb464eb408cc4efb2182de\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: On what date was she made aware the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety had notified the Prime Minister that reviewing the approach to pay equity was one of her five priorities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa1f8200543c46368b3c60f8b0fcd764\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: I would advise the member to put that specific question in writing. What I can confirm to her is that I was first alerted to it in November. I was then, indeed, included in meetings in March, and I was consulted throughout the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9e2c6ae4cc14f7f9ddeab7458473a82\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: On what date was she consulted on the work the Minister of Finance and the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety received in December 2023 on options to change the Government\u2019s approach to pay equity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e7b74a2735b437ab0d4fce2ce65b483\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: The initial conversation I had with the Minister of Finance regarding pay equity occurred on 9 November 2024.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b61991ecf734f8a8fb002f8897ee3a2\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Did she attend the Cabinet strategy committee report back in early 2025, where options for a future approach to pay equity were discussed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbebf36a566b498ca9376ed5bb64a3bb\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d need the member to put in writing the specific date of that. What I can confirm is I was included in a Cabinet strategy meeting on 3 December 2024. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a621f616fcc64332aeb578c011048b2f\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re not a member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfc2bd88e8094f97a235fd0367a70d9a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: As the member has acknowledged, I am not a member of that particular committee. I was included in a strategy meeting on 3 December 2024.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002253d3cb26b86f4f8dae5d5e548cfab2a2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022 data-id=\u002217ec5fa256b747ccb54e91fb365d0239\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217ec5fa256b747ccb54e91fb365d0239\u0022\u003ESUZE REDMAYNE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What recent announcements has she made about supporting the Government\u2019s target of raising student achievement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022f17cecc60c314a2eb7f533eb83bb4ad7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f17cecc60c314a2eb7f533eb83bb4ad7\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Our work programme is defined by pace, clarity, and outcomes and is delivering exactly what we said we would. We\u2019re investing nearly $100 million to ensure that extra help with maths is available across all stages of primary and intermediate schooling so that children get the extra help they need, an approach we\u2019re already delivering in reading. We\u2019re embedding financial education into the curriculum so students are taught how to budget, save, invest, and understand things like insurance and loans. Our kids deserve a world-leading education to give them the best possible start in life, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re delivering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022841cf645e8c947c2af14871a3782dcff\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has she seen about her actions to accelerate maths achievement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022779c7ce8d4784118b805de1701a35e15\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Feedback from schools has been very positive. One student from Cambridge Middle School who has been involved in our maths acceleration trial said, \u201CWhen I started, I couldn\u2019t answer, like, a simple question really, but now I can do division, fractions, percentages all pretty easily.\u201D Having heard the Government will be expanding the programme to reach up to 34,000 years 7 and 8 students, one principal said, \u201CFantastic support. We needed this all the way.\u201D But what I love to hear from students is what it means to experience success. One student involved in the trial said, \u201CI love maths. It\u2019s probably the best thing I\u2019ve done this year.\u201D, and that\u2019s why this is a Government committed to progress and achievement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229252af6ae0784d2093beebdf1bb4f4ca\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: How are her recent announcements supporting teachers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b39ecef2ba134f0684744c5fc6876731\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: This Government recognises teachers\u2019 ongoing commitment to raising student achievement, which is why we\u2019re investing to back our teacher workforce. Twenty-thousand teachers have received high-quality professional development in structured literacy, 15,000 have received structured training in maths, and over 836,000 maths resources have been delivered to students and teachers in primary and intermediate to support the new world-leading maths curriculum. We\u2019ve delivered on our promise to remove the cost of teacher registration and practising certificates, and that is just the start.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a52f78469a364703835d725feecc3feb\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: How are her recent announcements supporting parents?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a11ce7ad9b4f42e993f6c4e0118cf8c7\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The Government backs parents to be a key partner in their child\u2019s learning. To support parents, we\u2019ve launched the parent portal, to provide clear guidance in the curriculum each year in English and maths, videos about starting school, the phonics checks, guides to parent interviews, explainers about structured literacy, and all the resources that you need to support learning at home in English and maths. We\u2019ve already had 231,000 visits to the page, making it the Ministry of Education\u2019s most viewed page. Parents want to know these things about their child\u2019s learning. They want to be involved. My message to parents is, \u201CWe have your back. That\u2019s why we are supporting you and restoring your place at the heart of your child\u2019s learning. Thank you for everything you do to support your child on their education journey.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225958b3918d1d48a78caa998de915a2cb\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: On the subject of raising student achievement, will the Minister set aside funding so that some members can study Economics 101 and History 101 to learn that Marxist, pinko money-wasting never ends well for any country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a914d30efd44d8485ed48931040cd5a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Minister has no responsibility for the education of members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0ef33c8b19445d9a8c3bd9d9266f7b3\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t say members; it could be students.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2ed3fe3e9c94aba886698389e9592cf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You did say members, but if you want to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220be03a377b3a44a2994a79267565d437\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, it could be a student member\u2014you just assumed that, didn\u2019t you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022654ce4c19fba4248a2b2a446900ff0b9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I think you can split hairs, but just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232d3b61c3ed942658616f49c114da514\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll rephrase it, then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af8d8b134d484e73a89c9476ea5389fb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, that would be good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bceca480607f44f1bda57b5760006104\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: On the subject of raising student achievement, will the Minister set aside funding for some students to study Economics 101 and History 101 to learn that Marxist, pinko money-wasting never ends well for any country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022329b6c75aa4d4024b0bdb839e3baa942\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve already invested an hour a day in reading, writing, and maths. We\u2019ve invested multiple tens of millions in professional learning and development along with resources, and we\u2019re updating the curriculum in all of the areas that the Deputy Prime Minister has alluded to today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002246e08f3691944e2dbb55158ceef995e3\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Workplace Relations and Safety\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u002274c961ec7e584548bb2441616c6c6b02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274c961ec7e584548bb2441616c6c6b02\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: Is it accurate that 180,000 workers are affected by the cancelling of 33 pay equity claims?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022f603d3682c334e7993ecbd07e08af01e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f603d3682c334e7993ecbd07e08af01e\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E First, I would like to give hope to the member and any woman watching who would like to raise a pay equity claim. You can do this. Any woman or union can do this today under the new system this Government has introduced. The work that has been put in to date under previous claims has not been wasted. The material and evidence may be able to be used for the new claim.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbccb71c0e594a8a9640af1405283111\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, just a moment. It is a very straight question. It was on notice. If there\u2019s anything you want to add, that\u2019s fine, but you should answer the question in the first instance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2108ba6294d4496855c46ca8acade69\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: In response to the question about the number of workers who were covered by the 33 pay equity claims in progress under the previous system, that is the estimate I was provided by the Public Service Commission. The figure is based on the data they have on claims in the public sector and some of the claims in the funded sector. The figure will not include all workers in the funded sector, as the Government is not the employer and so does not hold all that information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a29881d52de3476d9eac925ba9275191\u0022\u003EHon Jan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: How many of the 180,000 workers are employed in the funded sector in services such as Plunket nurses, early childhood education teachers, or hospice workers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022618ee970a7974ada974866a695abc446\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said previously, from the figure that has been provided to me by the Public Service Commission, that is based on the data that they have on claims in the public sector and some of the claims in the funded sector. As the member will be aware, the public sector does make up a large majority of that number.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc2ec8ed62444c99bea4af2c57a43575\u0022\u003EHon Jan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: Has Cabinet made a decision on whether it will fund successful pay equity claims in the funded sector such as Plunket nurses, early childhood education teachers, or hospice workers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228aa90c32dbb54dddbe10c66045c623c8\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: My understanding is that this may have been information provided maybe a year ago, that the Government, under Minister Nicola Willis\u2019 pay equity reset, suggested that the funded sector would not be funded by the Government for pay equity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022318108a21aa84ac89d3180162feb6f4c\u0022\u003EHon Jan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: So why won\u2019t the Government fund successful pay equity claims for core services in the funded sector, given their funding comes from the Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c8624d303bd42c28ff1ccc1b9c76e8f\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: That was a decision that is not within my remit. That is a question for the Minister of Finance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227f35799d63c40c799cb0a4c76114830\u0022\u003EHon Jan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: Is the reason why they won\u2019t fund successful pay equity claims, such as for Plunket nurses, early childhood education teachers, and hospice workers, because the Government\u2019s Budget won\u2019t add up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c845152d9a374cd1acf0e47e02eadab0\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: No. I think some things do need to be made clear. We do still have a pay equity system. We will still be funding some of these claims, but when it comes to things that are in relation to the Budget, the member has been here for quite a while and should know that I\u2019m not the Minister of Finance, I\u2019m not responsible for the Budget, and I can\u2019t give out information that relates to the Budget or anything that may or may not be Budget-sensitive. I\u2019m simply the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety, responsible for the legislation that underpins the system. You know, I\u2019m not responsible for everything. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245b8ba1f9c674bdeb0d063707558980d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d just say to the House that there\u2019s been quite an emphasis and focus on the stricter application of the Standing Orders. One of those Standing Orders talks about the barracking and the point where barracking becomes heckling. I can\u2019t quite remember the number, but I\u2019ll research it later. But I\u2019d just suggest that members take that into account when they feel the need to start yelling across the House. Jan Tinetti, is there another question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a217d1c0dbcc4c26a35cbdb89df28a46\u0022\u003EHon Jan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f5aacf935dff4cbe897b60be2c6508e6\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Oceans and Fisheries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00225155d24f22504bd7a763af7ddb55bff2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225155d24f22504bd7a763af7ddb55bff2\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries: Does he believe bottom trawling is damaging; if so, should it be banned?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u00222b0477a86e024a70bcb23afe06d0cc45\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b0477a86e024a70bcb23afe06d0cc45\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Oceans and Fisheries):\u003C/span\u003E No, I do not consider that bottom trawling should be prohibited or banned, and, yes, it can have effects on the environment. However, with clever management measures, these things are all capable of being mitigated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279093608f56145c292cef0da8b69be18\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that bottom trawling is rapidly losing its social licence due to the destruction it causes to marine habitats and its high emissions profile, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c0d22aa52314a788b16cbf2aa11e9bc\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: No. The bottom trawling techniques that are pursued by the New Zealand fishing industry are relatively harmless, and I hope the member isn\u2019t following catastrophisation of what may happen in less enlightened nations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225930570834f445b4882253c96fa29413\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Why is New Zealand the only country still bottom trawling in the South Pacific despite growing international concern and environmental evidence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022683c9d11b59343ce89471ce4dbb68868\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: We, on this side of the House, are not going to ostracise the men and women working, earning a legitimate living, in an important segment of the economy. The reference to seining and trawling in New Zealand refers to an established practice, and, yes, from time to time, it does happen in the Hauraki Gulf, which shouldn\u2019t bother anyone because the Hauraki Gulf is basically a mud-stained bottom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4b09721b858405ebbc9efba9b17b9f2\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister reconcile his decision to scrap plans to restrict bottom trawling in the Hauraki Gulf with his Government\u2019s commitments to marine biodiversity, especially in light of the 97 percent decline in whales and dolphins, and the functional extinction of species like crayfish and scallops in parts of the gulf?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c93911603f143efb6fb5dfe1dc398c4\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: As befits my approach to politics, I deal with science and technology, and I can assure the House that the T\u012Bkapa Moana bill being promoted and brought forward by our colleague the Minister of Conservation already allows for a host of areas to be excluded from bottom trawling. I think it\u2019s important that we remember that our Government is interested in doubling exports, not exiling industries or buying into the weaponisation of legislation designed to de-industrialise New Zealand. That was on display yesterday with the Green alternative budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263200b304ab147dfb706130f54b4b90b\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen Sir David Attenborough\u2019s new documentary Ocean, which contains some of the most graphic footage of the damage that bottom trawling can do to the seabed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223412954d36b14b6d9f189af531f33b7c\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Many generations of New Zealanders have followed, with a great deal of interest, Mr Attenborough. However, Danish seining, trawling in New Zealand, is a vastly different proposition from the graphic images that feature in that particular movie. There are thousands of New Zealanders who rely on this industry for their jobs, generating export. As I said, again, we must not allow emotionalism to overcome science.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225debd231f38c4b009cee5a579701bfef\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister intentionally undermining public trust in marine protection laws and weakening New Zealand\u2019s international reputation on ocean conservation, or is that just a byproduct of his unwavering servitude to the seafood industry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f529e3c383c44d2d84bc5a50f71118b1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You can ask the question again, but the last part is to be struck out of the Hansard record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297d6ec3da46f43429d5dc8bddc1852ac\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: OK. What is more important to the Minister: maintaining public trust in marine protection laws and New Zealand\u2019s international reputation on ocean conservation, or maintaining the trust of the seafood industry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207c13921709f45c9954ab53e0c154be1\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Proclamations of international reputation without a chequebook that can actually meet the costs of environmental dues is a pipe dream. The fishing industry and the techniques of the fishing industry are constantly being reviewed by regulators, and New Zealanders can sleep happy tonight knowing they have a pro-industry champion in the matua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b33c447295334a898179169fcdcb6bf4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb823706b70c4aff95866ca3f78a578c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb823706b70c4aff95866ca3f78a578c\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: How is the Government progressing with its plan to restore law and order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9fb7d4ec8434e0e85e0c4cd10066105\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9fb7d4ec8434e0e85e0c4cd10066105\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E The Government continues to progress its plan to restore law and order with vigour. We\u2019ve given Police the additional powers they need to disrupt the activities of gangs. We stopped taxpayers funding the proliferation of cultural reports. We\u2019ve made sweeping reform to the Sentencing Act to put more serious offenders in prison for longer by restoring three strikes and restricting sentencing discounts by adding additional aggravating factors so that offenders are more appropriately held to account. Our target to reduce the number of victims shows this is working, with more than 28,000 fewer victims recorded in the latest stats. There\u2019s been great progress, but there is still a lot more to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4bcd0154bd94a9b97df2a73700f5fe5\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: What is next on the law and order agenda?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caadbca21b854d23b2f537cdf6a6ef6e\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Parliament is currently considering a range of legislation, including the Victims of Sexual Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill, which makes changes to ensure that, if convicted, adult sex offenders are publicly named and held to account if that is the wish of their victim. And shortly, the hard-working Justice Committee will report back on legislation to make stalking an illegal and jailable offence for up to five years\u2014much work to be done there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259964a1c23fa4324bf286735c2a960f8\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it important for the Government to restore law and order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce2df21737034be6806889e200e0c6ee\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Because it needed restoring in 2023, when we came to Government, and communities across the country didn\u2019t feel safe. People deserve to feel safe in their homes and in their communities and to have confidence that the justice system will hold those who disregard the laws to account. Every victim that is spared from going through the trauma of crime deserves the attention of the House, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re focused on today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b43ef6860fda4dbfae04861500fff136\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: What other actions is the Government taking to restore law and order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c5a872a772a4d788124032e71f341a8\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: As part of our Q2 plan, the Government intends to make decisions on a range of matters, including reforming the Crimes Act to further strengthen consequences, particularly in response to views of the ministerial advisory group on retail crime, led by Sunny Kaushal, relating to low-level offending, and strengthening trespass laws. We also intend to progress law changes to make citizen\u2019s arrest provisions more effective, and I look forward to the other side supporting these sensible changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8245f1b05534628a249f01a1d4185b7\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: On the topic of law and order, has the Minister read any reports proposing $88 million in new spending but zero dollars to Police and $770 million in cuts for Corrections?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7639bb10d29442e8900821b58dd2f8c\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, yes, I have seen those. I\u2019ve seen those reports, and they\u2019re related to the Green Party. It is a state\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e06598f287284393a9919dcb39a15419\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: In that case, you don\u2019t have to answer it. We move now to question No. 9.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002276643e51bef04edba6efc196f60f530d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022ffc35195130d4d60a4beb4e4122cab4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ffc35195130d4d60a4beb4e4122cab4f\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Was cancelling 33 current pay equity claims consistent with her commitment to reduce persistent disadvantage as outlined in her employment action plan; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002277e108234f8d494a857ac51907230a84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277e108234f8d494a857ac51907230a84\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Our Government is committed to maintaining a process to raise and resolve pay equity claims, and this process is open for claims. The Employment Action Plan ensures we are working across Government to provide greater opportunities for more New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238739480dce94336b35f045ad68a240b\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Is the gender pay gap an example of persistent disadvantage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f20ea78cd91d4f75a4bb7521fef8a6dd\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285d7e5f50dbc43aaaa481f8c044ca08f\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Did she advocate for her Employment Action Plan objective to reduce persistent disadvantage when the pay equity changes were discussed at Cabinet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f15e01e1574c41dd8b0c2ff85ac1b420\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: If the member had read the action plan, she would understand that persistent disadvantage is disadvantage that is ongoing for two years or more over a life course or intergenerationally\u2014which is why we are focused, for example, on reducing the number of young people on benefits, because if they go on to benefit under the age of 25, they will spend 20 future years there. That is persistent disadvantage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b915c026f7894e5e85cf01bec619f0ee\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: If the gender pay gap is not an example of persistent disadvantage, what is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209506faa74be462e95a7589b89f64e8f\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I just answered that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e15e093ffcab40cba34138678c89c06e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just give her the fact again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4db65855f964b2bae6009879b6c429e\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Twenty years for a young person under the age of 25 going on to a jobseeker benefit or a main benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022858bf276f03d43c29185ce10d32b43df\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: How does cancelling the 33 pay equity claims align with her action plan\u2019s concern that there are \u201Cpersistent and serious gaps in the labour market participation and outcomes for specific population groups, especially women\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d013fe98f6c64712894d79e3ae28023a\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s why we have a range of Ministers who work on the labour market issues, including the Minister for Women, including the Minister of Education, the Minister for Vocational Education, and other Ministers as examples. This is a cross-Government piece of work to improve outcomes for all New Zealanders, including women.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002290c2861629314c62accbf93793ad5888\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Commerce and Consumer Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f529b1c7c8ad40a5bed1049ec2251efe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f529b1c7c8ad40a5bed1049ec2251efe\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs: What recent announcements has the Government made about increasing competition in banking?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u002224c9c19137de4c68a383f4e6ac74a583\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224c9c19137de4c68a383f4e6ac74a583\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Recently, I announced the next big step for open banking in New Zealand. Cabinet has now signed off on the regulations for open banking, and we\u2019re now on a clear path to delivering more choice and better service for Kiwi consumers. The major banks will have until December to get ready for open banking, and that means that there will be certainty that open banking will be live by this Christmas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd5a302b1b3d4a2a84f85af0e10229d0\u0022\u003ENancy Lu\u003C/span\u003E: What is open banking and how would it help Kiwi consumers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022418981094d944468a94ec915dc587624\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: Open banking allows New Zealanders to securely share their banking data, like transaction history and account balances, with third parties such as fintechs. It aims to increase competition and innovation in the financial sector by enabling new services like budgeting apps, new payment methods, and loan-comparison tools. And importantly, consumers stay in control. Data is only shared with their consent, and providers must meet strict security standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b558384361a45828e3447d052afb0f3\u0022\u003ENancy Lu\u003C/span\u003E: What are some examples of open banking in practice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225aeaa1b4d3734eb8a9313cfac7d31479\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there are many great examples overseas of open banking in practice, and I can\u2019t wait to see what New Zealand - based fintech start-up companies will come up for us here in New Zealand. Other countries have seen exciting start-ups flourish under open banking, and examples include one called Revolut, an app that links to other banks for easier budgeting, payments, and multi-currency use; and then there\u2019s UNO Home Loans, a tool that speeds up mortgage comparison using income and spending data from banks; and then, thirdly, Canopy, which verifies rent and income from a streamlined process when moving house.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c19dfc2b9c24857991fa99355f70eeb\u0022\u003ENancy Lu\u003C/span\u003E: What else is the Government doing to increase banking competition?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264c8ba82ad08429288fdddd4f8dd89e3\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: This Government is laser-focused on increasing competition in the banking sector and that is for sure. As members will know, the Government has called for a select committee inquiry into banking competition following the Commerce Commission\u2019s study on personal banking. Now, the hard-working Finance and Expenditure Committee received more than 200 public submissions which showed broad concern about the level of competition. Recently, I also announced a programme run by the Financial Markets Authority to help level the playing field for fintechs challenging the big banks and to further boost competition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228c2ed91dddb04c0cb0905eaa624a5f24\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Disability Issues\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u0022998ee4c7bd2f4f6fbaf58a491b19f9fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022998ee4c7bd2f4f6fbaf58a491b19f9fe\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Disability Issues: Does she stand by her statement, \u201CThat is why we are prioritising disabled people, their families and carers\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022321bc484f9964b9c82524a362618abcf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022321bc484f9964b9c82524a362618abcf\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Disability Issues):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. Prioritising disabled people, their families, and carers is a priority for this Government, and that\u2019s why we provided a record $1.1 billion funding boost to Disability Support Services in Budget 2024. The state of affairs left by the last Government needed immediate action to stabilise the disability support system. Just announced today in Budget 2025, the Government has provided $190 million of social investment for vulnerable New Zealanders, including support for Autism New Zealand\u2019s early screening and intervention programme that provides services and support for wh\u0101nau, caregivers, and professionals. Our Government is focused on improving the lives of the nearly one in six disabled New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfc477aadd3b4f7a91c1f550e76a947d\u0022\u003EHon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: How many people included in the care and support workers\u2019 pay equity claim are employed in Disability Support Services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022058d1576bbd64e07ac4c52bc0466b9fa\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t have that number on me, and I would encourage anyone who has a pay equity claim to continue with their process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286b7e5cfdb92465abdc6f1eb03d9c008\u0022\u003EHon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: Has Cabinet made a decision on reallocating the funds held in contingency to settle the care and support workers\u2019 pay equity claim?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292f822592e35436c97eb8038ca2ba6ae\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not going to comment on comments that may or may not be subject to the Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6f0d76a47ec4db0ac636b7fd174d436\u0022\u003EHon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she agree to change the threshold from 60 percent to 70 percent, making it impossible for Peke Waihanga\u2014the Artificial Limb Service\u2014to lodge a pay equity claim, given their workforce is 65 percent women?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d65090a3d9144ae0b3db6b36e23f7814\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: The Government made a decision to make a process that was fairer and more transparent, and claims can be made, and I\u2019d encourage women and unions to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256ebf5f4b04046aeb0d168e873bd2b2d\u0022\u003EHon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: How will she ensure access to artificial limbs, orthotics, and rehabilitation, given Peke Waihanga is already disadvantaged by previously settled claims that mean they could lose their staff to employers who pay more?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022418572f13ad147d08af8f4724fe7f4cf\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think that\u2019s an issue that is any different from any employment space. I would encourage that organisation to look at supporting their employees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220e56b15ef48c45f5acda0011a61afe2a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Agriculture\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u00226540be03bc4549efb5c2b3ea8fbf9f91\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226540be03bc4549efb5c2b3ea8fbf9f91\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Agriculture: What recent announcements has he made about strengthening regulation to support the welfare of dogs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022 data-id=\u002251d71476e7364c45a978631bd9e1140d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251d71476e7364c45a978631bd9e1140d\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD (Associate Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E Last month, I announced new regulations that will create infringement offences for dog owners who cause their animals harm by leaving them chained up for days on end. Regulations will prohibit chaining vulnerable dogs, like pregnant or young animals, except for very temporary situations, and will give enforcement agencies real teeth to intervene swiftly where there is clearly observable harm associated with the long-term chaining. I want to send a sharp, clear message to dog owners that this poor behaviour towards animals is unacceptable and there will be consequences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9c039e51fa0416da9a1262ce5ce6ab7\u0022\u003EDr Parmjeet Parmar\u003C/span\u003E: Why are the regulations required?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d10187879074b01bf05f8fddde0dcfc\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d like to acknowledge the work of the SPCA here. They told the Government back in 2021 that the powers available to animal welfare inspectors under the regulations were not remotely adequate to address the almost 1,500 complaints about chaining that they received in 2021. Serious mistreatment of animals is already an offence under the Act, but criminal prosecution takes a lot of money and a lot of time. These infringement offences will allow appropriate action to be taken quickly to address the problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3d2dd5aa49a48978128d305c619da81\u0022\u003EDr Parmjeet Parmar\u003C/span\u003E: How will these new regulations focus on the wellbeing of dogs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a5fe41f0f0a42d1a4b29db4c0c0d821\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: The Government took a bit of time to work through a few different options, and we\u2019ve landed on outcome-focused regulations. In some cases, there could be good reasons for a dog to be tied up for periods of time, as long as it\u2019s in a way that preserves the standards of animal welfare. So these regulations will target harm. They will list a series of clearly observable outcomes where welfare is compromised. This will enable inspectors to know straight away whether an infringement fine is justified.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201139d95ba964c4bb758d689c3b1408b\u0022\u003EDr Parmjeet Parmar\u003C/span\u003E: How will the regulations be implemented?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225df289b0db34c5cbe6e9f31a6798a7e\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: Look, it\u2019s important to note that these regulations won\u2019t affect most Kiwi dog owners, who treat their dogs exceptionally well; for those that don\u2019t, however, there will be a six-month period after the regulations are made at the end of the year where inspectors will focus on education and working with the community. This will be followed by a common-sense application of the law. I\u2019d also note that even with these regulations in place, the most serious breaches can and will proceed to prosecution where necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec8dd2fe945a4b0ba43696625eff72f9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019ll be members who need to leave the Chamber for duties elsewhere in the precinct. They may do so quietly, as we\u2019ve come to the end of oral questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220b662dbee3834c3383586819ff67b80e\u0022\u003EValuers Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221f038516c81c49a49c9a4e2336664927\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00227cfaeeab3bc14eeca35cc2ce6dc7eff6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227cfaeeab3bc14eeca35cc2ce6dc7eff6\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I present a legislative statement on the Valuers Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227218c7a9e2954ba2ab79779f190e56ea\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff16f3bd63714e2198d4fc5d78ad44f0\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Valuers Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022105666b3616047f795d26db9beeb3b38\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022105666b3616047f795d26db9beeb3b38\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Under Standing Order 276(3), the bill\u2019s explanatory note states the committee nominated to consider the bill. The question therefore is, That the Valuers Bill be considered by the Primary Production Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Primary Production Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e3f073913e6f4c75a04621d2e98861f3\u0022\u003ESocial Security Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c477852d8c5e47cd9646d0ced470b5d4\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022f20d88cf5a9240499892a15d5bcc06d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f20d88cf5a9240499892a15d5bcc06d1\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Social Security Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228af7a280bff044f88d57b93c8cbfc056\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the parliamentary website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a66f33660174ab280815670a2f13e2f\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Social Security Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EOur Government believes people are better off in work. We have already taken steps to strengthen the welfare system\u2019s focus on supporting people off benefit and into employment, and our approach is working. During the first month of the traffic light system, obligation failures decreased by 9 percent. Between January and March this year, over 23,000 people cancelled their benefit because they found work. This is an 11 percent increase on the same period from 2024. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThis bill seeks to amend the Social Security Act and the social security regulations to expand and enhance welfare settings to continue supporting people off welfare and into work. The welfare system will always be available to support people when they need it, but as this Government has said from the start: people who can work need to meet their obligations to look for a job and be held accountable when they don\u2019t. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI want to quickly outline the key policy proposals in the bill. Quite simply, this bill introduces non-financial sanctions to expand the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s (MSD) tool kit. Non-financial sanctions provide an alternative option to reducing someone\u2019s benefit, which is a financial sanction, when responding to a person\u2019s first work-related or social obligation failure. They will only be an option for a person in active case management and/or a person with dependent children. Money management and community work experience are the first two non-financial sanctions implemented from 26 May. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe bill also extends the period over which an obligation failure counts against people from 12 to 24 months, with the exception of youth clients, increasing the likelihood that those who are repeatedly refusing to comply with their obligations will have their benefit cancelled if they remain on the benefit for more than a year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe bill will require new applicants for certain benefits with work-related obligations to have a completed job seeker profile before their benefit is granted, and this change will encourage work-focused conversations from the earliest possible opportunity and help MSD to better match people to suitable job vacancies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe bill will also reduce the amount of time someone who is on jobseeker support has before they reapply for the benefit from 52 to 26 weeks. This means that clients will have more frequent engagements with MSD about employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EAs this bill goes through its third reading, I would like to thank the Social Services and Community Committee for its considered recommendations to improve the bill and, in particular, their recommendation to include two further non-financial sanctions: report job search and upskilling. These additional non-financial sanctions will be available by October. I want to put on record my thanks to the officials who worked hard on this very important piece of legislation and the MSD staff that get up each and every day to support New Zealanders into employment. I also want to thank the members of the public and organisations who provided both written and oral submissions on the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EOnce more, I want to remind members of this House and the public that the non-financial sanctions proposed in this bill will only affect those who are not complying with their obligations. Most people on benefit are doing the right thing, and these changes will have no effect on them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe bill represents another step forward in refocusing our welfare system, creating a more transparent, accountable, and work-focused environment for job seekers. MSD front-line staff do an amazing job, actively engaging with job seekers, informing them of their obligations and responsibilities and the consequences when they don\u2019t through the traffic light system. But they also provide incredible support to help New Zealanders find work. This matters because work is more than about money. It also gives people a sense of purpose, independence, and connectedness, leading to a better future and helping families to break out of the cycle of intergenerational welfare dependence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESimply put, our Government believes that people and families are better off in work, our economy is better off when people are in work, and our Government is committed to making this a reality. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00229371a17c28914e34a34214c4502080c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229371a17c28914e34a34214c4502080c0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022aacd50b4326b4464a38124f09f3cc570\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aacd50b4326b4464a38124f09f3cc570\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s very sad to hear that type of k\u014Drero from the Minister for Social Development and Employment because the reality is that this bill makes life hard again for beneficiaries, who feel they\u2019re very much under attack from this Government. We\u2019re talking about some of the most vulnerable members of our society, and we would like to think the Government would be working a bit closer with them. We have opposed this bill all the way through. We think it\u2019s grossly unfair and far too punitive\u2014is certainly the position that we, as Opposition, have taken up, certainly the Labour Party position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s grossly unfair to M\u0101ori who make up\u2014we\u2019re talking 15 percent of the population, yet M\u0101ori account for 36 percent of all main beneficiary recipients. The miserly bill doubles the period\u2014and that\u2019s the problem here; we were certainly tested when we were in Government over this\u2014during which obligation failures are counted against someone, adds non-financial sanctions for first failures, and forces beneficiaries to reapply for their benefits every 26 weeks. That is very, very tough on wh\u0101nau who are already struggling\u2014already struggling at ground level, already struggling in the community. You\u2019re talking about a devastating effect, perhaps, on families who don\u2019t deserve to be going down that track. So it\u2019s not a bill about supporting people; this is a bill about punishing people, which, sadly, is how this Government is being perceived out there in the communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s another attempt by the Government to blame beneficiaries instead of taking responsibility for their policy that has spiked unemployment numbers. Why punish the unemployed for an unemployment problem that this Government has surely created? While they\u2019ll say that there is no major increase in terms of unemployment figures, the unemployment figures are still at an unacceptable level. M\u0101ori unemployment is up to 10.5 percent, with an increase in terms of 7,000 more people going on to benefits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re particularly disappointed because when we were in Government, and when I was an employment Minister, M\u0101ori affairs Minister, M\u0101ori development Minister, there was a focus in terms of targeted programmes\u2014targeted programmes in terms of women, targeted programmes in terms of M\u0101ori, targeted programmes in terms of Pasifika. These now are programmes that this Government is withdrawing from. They\u2019re not seeing the benefits of a targeted and focused programme. Benefit and jobseeker numbers have risen significantly under this Government as a result of worsening economic conditions\u2014I think we understand that\u2014but this Government needs to take some responsibility for the consequences of their actions instead of blaming the unemployed for being unemployed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe Government has all but given up trying to get beneficiaries into work and now it\u2019s trying to, essentially, force people away by making accessing the benefits they are entitled to increasingly difficult. This is something that we traversed through the committee stage, the difficulties that some people have in managing this and working with AI and working with computers. You\u2019re talking about sometimes people with multiple problems, difficulties just trying to survive, and then all of a sudden, they have to reapply for a benefit. Doubling the amount of time a failed obligation counts for does nothing but further punish job seekers. It certainly doesn\u2019t help them find employment and it is a disproportionate punishment, especially if they\u2019re caregivers. Again, the Government is not showing enough empathy, sympathy, and aroha in that direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ESimilarly, making job seekers reapply every 26 week is only designed to make being on jobseeker support an increasingly frustrating experience. It\u2019s just to force people off regardless of whether they\u2019re going into employment. Enforcing money management as a non-financial sanction could lead to a variety of issues, especially if beneficiaries spend more than half of their entitlements on rents and bills such as water and power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThis malicious and spiteful legislation is nothing more than whipping the poor and then charging them for the beating. The Government is, essentially, admitting it would rather punch down on our most vulnerable rather than do anything to help them materially improve their lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ENot only are these suggested changes cruel and counterproductive, they\u2019re also unfeasible. The Ministry of Social Development (MSD) has admitted\u2014again, we traversed this through the committee stage, and we also had feedback from MSD\u2014during scrutiny week that they\u2019re already under huge pressure as their front-line operational capacity has remained broadly unchanged. But they have had 700 cuts in terms of their backroom staff. So how do you ask an agency already under huge pressure to roll out the Government strategy and programme? It is next to impossible. Don\u2019t get me wrong, there are good people at MSD. They worked with us, and they worked with the Government, but they are not social workers. They are not social workers. But they are also not robots and they\u2019re not machines. They can\u2019t roll out a Government strategy when they\u2019re undermanned and having to do multiple things. So 700 cuts to the backroom staff would make it near impossible to roll out a tight programme that the Government wants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe rise in main benefit recipients now mean they must serve an additional 30,000 more people. We\u2019ve already seen a decline in accurate assessment with a quarter of beneficiaries not receiving their full entitlements. Now the Government has heaped more pressure on MSD\u2019s operational capacity, essentially doubling the amount of jobseeker applications MSD must process in any given year, notwithstanding the forecast rise in job seeker numbers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThis is on top of other requests that the Government has heaped on them, such as implementing the traffic light system\u2014a very controversial system\u2014and increasing the amount of job seekers eligible for case management, increasing the amount of sanctions imposed on beneficiaries, increasing the amount of meetings the job seekers must attend. It\u2019s not always possible to attend all these meetings. As I said, some of these people are struggling as it is. Miss the meeting, miss their allowance. Miss their allowance, miss their p\u016Btea, the money owing to them, the wh\u0101nau suffers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EGovernment has to look at this. The Government has to be more understanding that sometimes it\u2019s not about a second warning and it\u2019s out; sometimes it\u2019s about a third, fourth, or fifth warning. I know that\u2019s hard for some on the other side to understand, but when you give up on them, you have to understand the consequences in terms of that family and in terms of that community. I know that people on the other side do work at the coalface with some of these people, but understand some of the difficulties that they have to go through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe regulatory impact statement (RIS) alone shows the Government should not have proceeded with these changes. Clear as a bell, the RIS for this bill highlights one of the consequences\u2014and this is what I\u2019m saying\u2014may be that MSD will have to direct more resources towards compliance and, therefore, away from employment initiatives. They will literally have to put less resources into helping beneficiaries to work. Surely, the principle of this is to get them into work, but it\u2019s going to have the opposite and adverse effect. Research cited in the RIS highlights that sanctions may increase mental and physical health problems, including substance abuse and poverty. The RIS highlights that previous work on reapplication showed that cancellations of the benefit as part of the reapplication process often led to a new application, suggesting procedural denials rather than ineligibility. The RIS also highlighted that focusing on those close to return to work via case management was almost certainly to the detriment of long-term beneficiaries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIn summary, this welfare policy will hurt people, not help them. I denounce this policy. We in Labour absolutely denounce this policy. It is the wrong policy. It is too punitive. It\u2019s about punishing people all the time. We need to take another way. We need to look at things a different way, a more embracing way, a more aroha way. That is the view of Labour, and we will stick by that and put that again in place when we\u2019re back in Government. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u00221104f05382284c4abe0d80407dc259af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221104f05382284c4abe0d80407dc259af\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Government has outlined their formula to get us back on track to grow poverty, grow inequality, grow the number of people living in their cars, and this formula includes cutting benefit increases, keeping benefit levels below the poverty line, then increasing unemployment, followed by increasing benefit sanctions. And just watch as more people experience material hardship and food insecurity, and as UNICEF reports that Aotearoa continues to be one of the worst countries for children\u2019s wellbeing in the developed world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThe Minister should be ashamed to even refer to this bill as supporting people into employment, because there\u2019s nothing in this bill that does this\u2014absolutely nothing. She either did not read the bill or is just choosing to omit the bits of this bill, the majority of this bill, that will simply push people further into poverty. The so-called non-financial sanctions\u2014and that is, I think, an inaccurate description of what they do\u2014will push people further into poverty. I think calling them \u201Cnon-financial sanctions\u201D is simply incorrect, because let\u2019s outline the benefit sanctions that are in this bill, and what they do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ECompulsory money management will put 50 percent of someone\u2019s income in a payment card that then they won\u2019t be able to use to pay their rent, to pay their bills, or for other basic essentials, when we know that most people on the benefit are already paying 50 percent of their income on rent. We know that this benefit sanction, deemed \u201Cnon-financial\u201D, will literally leave people unable to keep a roof over their head. There\u2019s a financial impact in here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThen let\u2019s look at community work experience. Most organisations who were consulted reported that they were not so keen to participate in this because it actually destroys the purpose of volunteering and it burdens those volunteer organisations. That benefit sanction will do nothing to adequately support people to engage and to be part of their communities. And what\u2019s worse, people subjected to the sanction as well as others will be unable to access things like hardship grants. For those who don\u2019t know, people on the benefit, many of them, rely on hardship grants on a sometimes regular basis, sometimes even weekly basis, just to survive. How can we call these sanctions \u201Cnon-financial\u201D when they strip away people\u2019s ability to access the very assistance that allows them to sometimes have food on the table?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThen we also have two benefit sanctions that were added later in the piece\u2014terrible lawmaking process, because the Minister outlined in the Cabinet paper that she intended to do this and didn\u2019t let anyone in the public know until later in the select committee stage, stripping away people\u2019s ability to submit on these two other so-called non-financial sanctions. If the Minister was so confident about the process that she was following in her policies, she would have let people know of her intentions so that these sanctions could be adequately scrutinised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s talk about the so-called job-search report, which will then force people to apply for three jobs each week, but then those people won\u2019t even be able to access the assistance that then allows them to enter into employment\u2014so, for example, financial assistance that allows them to have access to uniforms, that have access to transport, that have access to a vehicle that allows them to get into that very same job. Literally, what the Government is doing is making it harder to get into employment, and no matter how much evidence we present to the Minister over how benefit sanctions do not work\u2014they simply push people further into poverty\u2014the Minister seems to not care, but I actually think that it\u2019s beyond the Minister not caring. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThe Minister always intended to increase poverty in this country, because I cannot see anything in this legislation that does otherwise, and we\u2019ve already seen the impacts of Government policies. For example, there is the stripping away of subsidies that allow people to access basic essentials, such as prescriptions and such as public transport, and that number is growing\u2014the number of children who don\u2019t have the bare essentials. like food at the table, to just be well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really clear to me that there\u2019s nothing in this bill that will support children to thrive and parents to find employment. It\u2019s also clear to all of us\u2014it doesn\u2019t take anyone doing an economics paper to know this\u2014that there are not enough jobs out there for every unemployed person on the benefit. Those are facts. This means that the Government has not just relied on increasing unemployment\u2014they haven\u2019t created enough jobs to actually ensure that everyone who\u2019s unemployed has an opportunity to get into work\u2014they gutted benefit increases only to then increase financial sanctions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EBut I want to also believe that a different future is absolutely within our grasp, because, under the last National Government, I was privileged enough to actually take part in a campaign to get rid of a benefit sanction affecting solo parents. At the time, around 2017, there were 17,000 solo mums who were affected by the sanction for simply not naming the other parent of their child, being stripped away of income support. The National Party then did not care. They did not care about the fact that solo parents were being pushed deeper into poverty as a result of this benefit sanction. They had no evidence of working. They constantly opposed repealing it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EBut we changed the Government and we got rid of the sanction, and if it were up to the Greens, we would not only get rid of the sanctions imposed in this piece of legislation but all benefit sanctions, because it\u2019s actually the Government\u2019s responsibility to show us and demonstrate that their policies are working as intended. So far they haven\u2019t. They\u2019ve gone off vibes; they\u2019ve gone off cruelty; lack of empathy. But we should not expect anything else from a Prime Minister that called people on the benefit, during the campaign trail, \u201Cbottom trawlers\u201D. This is the kind of attitude that the Government members take when it comes to the people living in poverty\u2014using names, conjuring beneficiaries who they\u2019ve never met to simply try to make ideological points and punch on those that are literally sometimes sleeping in their cars, often many of them receiving income support, working to make ends meet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s worse is that in this piece of legislation, the Government also narrowed the definition of what we call \u201Cwork gap\u201D, which is the definition that allows people to then apply for a benefit by narrowing who is considered to have a work gap. Effectively, what the Government is doing is limiting who can access income support. This is to get them on track for their target of 50,000 less people on the benefit. It is not about getting those 50,000 people into work; it\u2019s simply to strip 50,000 people of income support. The Government has admitted that they don\u2019t care where those people go when they are not on the benefit. They simply want to get 50,000 people off income support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EFor what? To pay for tax cuts for landlords. That\u2019s basically their motive. They\u2019re taking away resources from the poorest people in our country to give money to the landlords. It shows that this Government is reheating their nachos by bringing back policies from the 1980s: having massively increased unemployment and inequality simply to give bucks to the wealthy few.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI want us to commit\u2014and I commit everyone on this side of the House, at least from the Green Party\u2014to fighting back against this piece of legislation. We commit to listening to the voices of people on the benefit, and we bring them with us in our campaigns to change this Government and have an income support that allows people to live with dignity. In fact, I would say that caregivers form a large part of who is on income support. It\u2019s the work that is actually the most under-appreciated by this Government, because if this Government appreciated caregiving, raising children, they would not have income support for those that are raising children, and are focusing on raising children as a primary task, below the poverty line. This Government has decided to treat caregiving obligations as not worthy of livable incomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI want to mihi to everyone out there doing their best to access income support under our Government, that is making it harder for them to do so at a time where even Work and Income staffers are telling us that their phone line is \u201Coversubscribed\u201D because of the policies that this Government has introduced. We even have the case managers telling us that they don\u2019t have the capacity to help people and continue with programmes to prevent homelessness because of shameless and terrible, cruel policies that simply increase poverty. We know that something is terribly, terribly wrong. No matter how much the Government members on the other side may try to spin this as a positive thing to help people get into unemployment, the facts speak for themselves: this bill will increase inequality, poverty, homelessness, and will not support people into employment. No matter what the Government member says, it doesn\u2019t actually match the facts that are in all the reports, all the evidence, all the research\u2014because they don\u2019t care. All they\u2019ve cared about, as they\u2019ve indicated to us, is calling beneficiaries \u201Cbottom trawlers\u201D, punching down on those who need help the most, and increasing unemployment. This isn\u2019t a Government that is here to serve the many; simply to serve their wealthy few mates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWe will fight for an economy that works for everyone and to repeal this terrible and shameful piece of legislation as soon as we get back into power. Let\u2019s make this a one-term Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002225f1f274a0e2490d8b149d58065bee05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225f1f274a0e2490d8b149d58065bee05\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is appropriate for a member in a debate to raise points that are of a debating nature. It\u2019s not appropriate to use language that is attributed as a quote when it is out of context. So it\u2019s an interesting contribution to the House, but a contestable one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u0022304eaab627c742d2bab72e4230e515a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022304eaab627c742d2bab72e4230e515a6\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m taking this call on behalf of the ACT Party to support the Social Security Amendment Bill. It\u2019s great to see that this bill has come for the third reading and, after the third reading\u2014hopefully, it will be going through the House today\u2014that the changes that this bill intends to bring will be implemented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EOn this side, we really want to encourage people to get into employment, but listening to that contribution from the Green member Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March, it seemed like people who go out to work are doing something wrong, and that people who are sitting on a benefit are actually doing something right and that they should be supported to stay on a benefit. On this side, we want to see that those who are on a benefit\u2014I know there are some circumstances because of which people end up on the jobseeker benefit\u2014are supported so that they can get back into employment. There are some people who are always actively looking for employment, but there can be a small fraction of people, those who are on the jobseeker benefit, who get demotivated after some time and then become too relaxed, staying on a benefit. We want to make sure that they understand that if they continue to stay on a benefit, it\u2019s not going to help them, it\u2019s not going to help their family, it\u2019s not going to help anybody, and it\u2019s better that they continue to look for employment. For that, we are putting several mechanisms in place in our welfare system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThe existing traffic light system: I don\u2019t understand why the Labour member said that the traffic light system is controversial; it\u2019s actually quite a transparent system. It makes it very, very clear where people sit when it comes to their compliance. The other thing that the Green member has, I think, missed seeing is that these sanctions are only for people who are not complying. If people are complying, there are no sanctions. If they don\u2019t comply with their first obligation, if they miss that, there is this money management sanction, which the ACT Party campaigned on, and we are really happy to see that this is being implemented through this legislation. Fifty percent of their funds will be put on a card. They will be able to use this money for essential goods, so it\u2019s a non-financial sanction. Money is still there, but it\u2019s the form they get money in that is going to be different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ECommunity work: how could a member criticise the requirement of community work? This is just five hours per week for four weeks. Community work will give these members the opportunity\u2014those who are on the jobseeker benefit\u2014to go out and interact with different organisations, meet with different people, and maybe that is how they will find their new opportunity, their new job: upskilling. Why would people not want to upskill when they are on a benefit? Of course people would like to see that they are being upskilled\u2014they get that opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EReporting on a job search: if they are on the jobseeker benefit, I don\u2019t think there should be any hesitation reporting on a job search. But somehow the speeches that I\u2019ve heard from the Green member and from the Labour member are kind of stigmatising job-searching. On this side, we want to see that people are actually going out and actively looking for opportunities, because we want to see that everybody is able to flourish. All these changes that this bill brings are actually good changes. We want to see that these changes are actually helping people, motivating people. These changes are to remind people that their circumstances can change, and that\u2019s why the Government is putting these kinds of changes in place: so that we can support people to get back into employment, to do well for themselves, and do well for the community as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EI would end by saying that the Labour member and the Green member, the contributions that I heard from them, were basically indicating that it\u2019s totally fine to be dependent. On this side, we want to encourage empowerment; on that side, they want to encourage dependency. It\u2019s very clear from their contributions, and it\u2019s very clear from our contributions what we are advocating for. We really want to see people being successful in their lives, and that\u2019s why we support this bill. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022 data-id=\u00220989053bfdf648adabc828b22a2194f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220989053bfdf648adabc828b22a2194f7\u0022\u003ETANYA UNKOVICH (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak in support of the Social Security Amendment Bill. I\u2019ll stick to the facts. I heard a lot in the previous contributions about this not being a caring Government. The facts are we are a caring Government. Anybody who goes into public service has a heart for caring, and sometimes caring has a different look. Our way of caring is encouraging people to get out there and make their lives better, and sometimes that is giving someone a hand up, rather than a handout. That\u2019s what caring looks like. New Zealand First is very much about taking responsibility for our lives. It means helping people who need help, but also helping those who want to get out and make a better life for themselves. We see that the introduction of some of these processes and controls not only makes the system more efficient and effective but it also gives people a reason and an opportunity to step up in their lives. So that is why New Zealand First will support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to make a mention to all of the people who work at the Ministry of Social Development (MSD). Whilst they\u2019re not social workers, I hear and have had feedback that many people have had extraordinary service from them. I just want to acknowledge them, because every single person that they help, they never quite know, maybe, where they\u2019ve gone in their lives, but every now and then you\u2019d get a phone call from someone and say, \u201CDo you remember? You helped me once upon a time.\u201D So I just want to acknowledge all of the MSD people out there who are working hard in service to the people of New Zealand. I commend the bill to the House. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022 data-id=\u0022aeb50065ffb643b5b5cf8530ba7dd33c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aeb50065ffb643b5b5cf8530ba7dd33c\u0022\u003ETAKUTAI TARSH KEMP (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014T\u0101maki Makaurau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. I stand on behalf of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori this afternoon to express our unequivocal opposition to the Social Security Amendment Bill. When I think about this bill, I think about a whakatauk\u012B that we serve by at our marae \u201CAmohia ake te ora o te iwi, ka puta ki te whai ao\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E[\u201CSupport the health of the people and they will achieve wellbeing\u201D]. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EThe health and wellbeing of our people is paramount, and we must do whatever it takes to ensure our people are well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003ESeventy percent of M\u0101ori are under the age of 40, one in three M\u0101ori is under the age of 25, 30 percent of our people are on the benefit, and 35 percent of our people are the working poor. The unemployment rate is skyrocketing to 10 percent. It\u2019s unacceptable. This legislation is under the guise of promoting employment and reducing welfare dependency, which threatens to exaggerate poverty, undermine human rights, and disproportionately harm M\u0101ori communities. We\u2019ve been hearing from both sides of the House this afternoon about what\u2019s not working, what should be working, how it should happen. I want to share my experiences out in the community, front-lining with people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b5932a4e88542e29865134375a82c9a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Urgh.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022873c4da87de54c839d70e12b1fcde63f\u0022\u003ETAKUTAI TARSH KEMP\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, here we go again. You know why? Because I tell you a real story, a real story from people I sit with and have sat with, to hear their stories of struggle. Of course, \u201CP\u014Dhara Street\u201D is alive and kicking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EWh\u0101nau talk about how hard it is. Wh\u0101nau are struggling out there, on the daily. They can\u2019t make ends meet, and these sanctions are taking away, for them, their livelihood, because the benefit, for some families, is the only option. Don\u2019t get me wrong; there are wh\u0101nau out there who don\u2019t want to be on the benefit and they want to live a better life, but there are just some things that stop them from doing so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003ECan I talk about the families who come off the street every day, at the marae. They actually ask for jobs. They want a job. They want help with a job. They can\u2019t get one. Do you know why? Because they have backgrounds and pasts that the system doesn\u2019t allow them to move past\u2014their past. We\u2019ve had wh\u0101nau that have come off the streets that have come out of jail, they want jobs but they can\u2019t get one; or there is an employer who wants to give them the opportunity to get that start, but when the police vetting comes back, they haven\u2019t met the criteria, so they can\u2019t get the job. So they\u2019re back and they\u2019re needing to be on a benefit. Do you know how that feels for those wh\u0101nau? They feel shame. They feel whakam\u0101. Therefore, the cycle continues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EThere were programmes out there that were able to help these families actually get better employment options. They could put them through training. But those funding opportunities for providers have disappeared. Funding has disappeared, and our people are no longer able to seek opportunities to further benefit themselves. I tell you, being whakam\u0101 is one of the most horrible feelings to have as a wh\u0101nau member, and M\u0101ori providers are always out there trying to ensure we do give our people a hand up. They don\u2019t actually want a handout; they want a hand up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EI also want to say that we need solutions. There are solution. Wh\u0101nau Ora is a solution. The Kai\u0101rahi workforce is a solution. Bringing Ministry of Social Development workers out from behind their desks and into the communities, working alongside providers and partners, is a solution. But the bigger solution is that our wh\u0101nau need to know how big their voices are, how important they are. A hundred thousand people marched. There were 307,000 submissions. We heard those voices, and we want to continue to listen to the voices of our people. The biggest voice for wh\u0101nau, though, I can say, is that we need to ensure this Government is a one-term Government. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022 data-id=\u002272e414b622c54133a03147ac9ae2d5c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272e414b622c54133a03147ac9ae2d5c4\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the Green Party to oppose this bill, not just in principle but with deep disappointment at the process and the policy. At every stage of this bill\u2019s journey, the public, the experts, and the Minister\u2019s own officials have told us clearly and consistently that this is going in the wrong direction. Community groups, disabled advocates, parents, young people\u2014thousands of people took the time to engage with this legislation, and 97.5 percent of them opposed it, yet despite overwhelming evidence and lived experience, this House has chosen to pass this bill that will make life harder for those already doing it tough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EThe Government has spoken often about responsibility, but this bill shirks its own by refusing to uphold the most basic responsibility of all to ensure that people can live in dignity. Let\u2019s talk about what this legislation really does. It introduces sanctions that will prevent people from accessing hardship assistance\u2014that is non-financial. That is missed meals, unpaid bills, and eviction notices. It is parents unable to get their children to the doctor. It is families being pushed further to the edge in a cost of living crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EWe heard from CCS Disability Action that these sanctions would directly harm disabled people and their wh\u0101nau. We heard from Save the Children about the financial strain of repeat medical assessments for people already fighting to access the correct benefit, and the truth is that many of these people shouldn\u2019t be on the jobseeker benefit at all. Systemic barriers keep them from accessing the supported living payment. That is not a failure of an individual; it is a failure of the system, yet this bill compounds that failure by adding more penalties, more hoops, and more bureaucratic hurdles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EThis House was told that 41 percent of benefit entitlements are being mis-assessed\u201441 percent\u2014that most sanctions are overturned on review, and that front-line discretion is being increasingly inconsistently applied, and instead of fixing these failures, this Government is formulising them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EThe Green Party is also deeply concerned about the lack of transparency shown throughout this process. At the select committee, MPs were prevented from asking officials basic questions. That is not just bad process; that is undemocratic. It leaves Parliament to vote on policy without the full picture. That is not how good law is made. If the goal here was employment, where is the investment in what works? Where are the policies for accessible transport, community-based training, or proper childcare support? If the goal was dignity, where is the commitment to raising benefits above the poverty line? Where is the plan to tackle homelessness, not worsen it? This bill answers none of those questions. Instead, it embeds deeper inequality, punishes people already let down by the system, and sets us on a pathway that will only increase social harm in the long term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EThe Green Party believes in a welfare system that lifts people up, not locks them out. We believe in evidence-based policy. We stand today with the thousands who raised their voices, with the families who feel the weight of this law, and with the communities who deserve more than performative responsibility. They deserve justice and dignity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EThis bill should never have made it this far. We urge the Government to stop, to listen, and to change course. You can still course-correct. We recommend that this bill be discharged and that this House turn its attention to what really matters: ending poverty, not entrenching it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u0022a05ab58da96d407a9e845ab4591f928d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a05ab58da96d407a9e845ab4591f928d\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to speak on the Social Security Amendment Bill. This bill aims to make the welfare system fairer, more effective, with the aim to empower people rather than trap them in dependency. The majority of New Zealanders are in employment; there is a small number who are not. We help them\u2014the taxpayers help pay to support those people. We want to give them a hand up; we don\u2019t want to keep them in dependency, and that\u2019s what this bill is about. For 15 years, the only option has been financial sanctions for people who don\u2019t comply with their obligations. This is introducing non-financial sanctions to help empower those people. We want to lift individuals and families up. Fundamentally, we believe in New Zealanders and how much they are capable of, and that\u2019s what this bill is about. It is a good step forward. We are here to support people, but people need to comply with their obligations\u201498 percent of beneficiaries do. For the small number who don\u2019t, we will support them to develop the skills they need to get back into employment. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022c06df8f4107a4eb18acac6c91a08f706\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c06df8f4107a4eb18acac6c91a08f706\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for this opportunity to speak on this bill. I want to contribute something a little bit different to this debate, but I think it\u2019s absolutely where we should have our eye on the ball. This bill is a cynical distraction from a deliberate decision to create more unemployment in this country. One of the things I was proudest of as a backbencher in the last Government was that our unemployment rate fell to a level it hadn\u2019t been at before, and it was very clear that we were moving people who had been in families where there had been what I would consider systemic, ingrained unemployment into employment for the first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWe are back to levels of unemployment I am concerned about, and it isn\u2019t by accident. I was in this House when we reversed the law that meant that the Reserve Bank Governor, when they were making decisions about their monetary policy which has a huge impact on employment, had taken away from them that they should be mindful of maximising sustainable employment. We were told that this was because they couldn\u2019t possibly do two things at once. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWell, actually, I would say that maximising sustainable employment is absolutely the core to the same thing that the Minister got up today and said. She said, \u201CWe all want people in work\u201D. I agree. We all want people in work. We want to maximise the people in work. But what I\u2019ve heard\u2014and it\u2019s like listening to your drunk uncle. I hear from some of the people in the Chamber things like \u201CPeople are sitting on the benefit.\u201D Well, there might be people who need to have strong sanctions and obligations, and they were already there. They have always been there. There have always been sanctions for that little group. Most of the people who find themselves unemployed this year who were not unemployed last year, the reason that they are unemployed is because this Government chose to have a policy where it prioritised other parts of the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EMaximum sustainable employment means the level of employment where, if you have more, it puts pressure on the economy and inflation goes up. There\u2019s an interesting irony there. It\u2019s, basically, saying that those people who are unemployed are doing everyone else a favour because they\u2019re keeping the pressure on wages down. So it\u2019s one of those ironic things. We actually rely in our conceptual thinking on having a group of people who are unemployed so that wages don\u2019t go up, and when there are less people than maximally sustainably employed\u2014when we have less people employed than that\u2014wages tend to go up. Well, good luck. I\u2019d love them to go up. Yes, our economy might need to be readjusted, and our thinking might need be readjusted in other ways, but we need people in this country employed, because I agree with the Minister that it\u2019s absolutely paramount that we focus on everybody being employed and wages going up in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThere is too much of a divide between people. I know that often lots of us will be a part of circles of people where people are earning enormous amounts of money in this country. I\u2019d like to remind the public when they\u2019re thinking about sanctioning those who are unemployed and talking about people who sit around on the couch\u2014first of all, I\u2019d like to remind them just how much those benefits are. It\u2019s about $353, I think, if I became unemployed tomorrow. Now, butter in this country has gone up. It\u2019s gone up about from about $4.50 earlier this year to $7.50, I think, on average. Actually, if you googled this, you\u2019d find that the amount that butter is is something like $11, quite often. So if you find a $7.50 butter, you\u2019re lucky, and we\u2019re talking about $350. Toothpaste would be about $5 for one of the economy brands. So take the $300 that we\u2019re talking about here and think about what happens if you\u2019re suddenly unemployed tomorrow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWe pride ourselves on having a safety net, but it\u2019s not the best safety net in the world. It\u2019s not one, really, that you\u2019d want to sit around for a long time on, waiting or lolling out on the couch, which is the myth that has been proliferated here and is proliferated by this piece of legislation. It\u2019s just not a very nice lifestyle choice, is it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EMost people would rather work, and I am absolutely in favour of that, and I do want to bust the myth that there is no support on this side of the House for having a level of obligation and sanction, if that becomes necessary. But what we\u2019re being asked to do today is focus on and demonise a group of people whose numbers have gone up in the last year because of a deliberate decision by this Government to create more unemployment because it wanted inflation down, and we\u2019re being told, \u201CFocus on them. Don\u2019t look over here\u2014it\u2019s not us; it\u2019s them. They\u2019re just sitting around on the couch. They\u2019re just behaving badly.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s just talk about one of those groups: the youth. They\u2019re a really problematic group, and it\u2019s really easy if you\u2019re old to think that the youth are lolling around on the couch. You may even be able to find a few in your own family who are capable of such things. But, actually, if we look at the numbers, the youth in this country are facing an unprecedented crisis in terms of unemployment. Between the ages of 15 and 19, we have rates of unemployment that are 24 percent. That\u2019s almost a quarter of people in that age group who have not got a job, and if we visit it on them and we say that it\u2019s all their fault and that we just need to sanction them and kick them a little bit\u2014if we take away their benefits, if we manage their money, and if we take away any level of respect for those people that all those things imply, what are we saying? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI have a lot of faith in that group of people. They have been through really hard times when the rest of us, when we were looking at unemployment due to the possibility of a pandemic\u2014when that happened to us, we created a wage subsidy. The unemployment benefit wasn\u2019t good enough for us. People who came into sudden unemployment were given more than the group we\u2019re talking about now, because that wasn\u2019t good enough for those who were suddenly going to be unemployed because it was a group we identified with and whom we knew had mortgages and obligations\u2014and we didn\u2019t find them at fault. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EIt is very easy to think about the people in that situation\u2014that 5.1 percent right now. Those workers at Kinleith, that group of youth\u2014it is very easy and tempting to demonise them. But we actually treated ourselves a lot better when, in fact, it was our turn to be suddenly unemployed, and, actually, that was the right thing. To reach out and support people in that situation, to support them more realistically, and to get them through that crisis was something that the Labour Government did proudly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EAll the barking on that goes on about all the wastage and the waste of spending and the debt\u2014I remember the National Party clamouring for further subsidies. Further subsidies for their mates who\u2014[Interruption] That\u2019s what was going on. They were actually clamouring for more spending at the time, and now they\u2019re sanctimoniously not doing so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbd753428e5b4cd1a7c0e0f245120bf2\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Can we come back to this bill\u2014come back to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8c6d744eb6e422197dd290af5b080d1\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker, I will. I am simply responding to the heckling I\u2019m getting because I\u2019ve obviously touched a nerve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ETo return to this bill, I think the point of this bill is to distract New Zealanders. I think it is that kind of approach that is so easy in politics. Find yourself an easy victim, an easy enemy, one that makes it attractive to people. Talk about people sitting around on the couch, when in fact it\u2019s not that people have sat around on the couch because they weren\u2019t sitting around on the couch in the Labour Government; there were record amounts of employment and that is something that actually changes the game for people. That\u2019s a game-changer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo I am proud to be part of a party that thinks about people in a very different way, and values our youth and values our potential. It is time for New Zealand to think very carefully about the next 20 years and what it wants, because, with silly little bills like this that are trivial and petty and cruel and are actually just blaming and distracting, this Government has things to learn. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022b221d86c26c64b72af81dfc820fccd2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b221d86c26c64b72af81dfc820fccd2a\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Speaker. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I seek leave to correct a statement I made in the House during slot No. 3 of this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4ec4a848d0641f793b8cce1a5533482\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a981d813a6d44a393a5becaa7755713\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. During my speech, I used the term \u201Cbottom trawlers\u201D to refer to statements that the Prime Minister has made in the past. I was referring to \u201Cbottom feeders\u201D, which was in the context of quotes where he said \u201Cbottom feeding\u201D in relation to welfare in 2023, during the election campaign. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022258a2bb6c26440eab5654198cba5bb6c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022258a2bb6c26440eab5654198cba5bb6c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Noted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022 data-id=\u0022423709ca4df24275b8f99123b0e6fdd6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022423709ca4df24275b8f99123b0e6fdd6\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Social Security Amendment Bill is aimed at enabling beneficiaries to get back on their feet by getting back into work. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00227b94feb005db4a92af108036ec4a1cee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b94feb005db4a92af108036ec4a1cee\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is a bill that punishes young people, and I have four points to make about how it does so. But, first, I want to talk about a young woman that I met in my electorate of Manurewa recently. I\u2019ll call her \u201CKJ\u201D\u2014a really cool young person just trying to get ahead, recently enrolled in a course about building and construction, and getting back on her feet. She lives in one of the amazing youth facilities for homeless youth. For the first time this year, she experienced sleeping at a bus shelter. She was 16 at the time. She was living with her nan and a number of her cousins before that. She was working in a warehouse after school, packing groceries. She left her school for that job, which then fell through for her when she moved in with her boyfriend and it, ultimately, wasn\u2019t a safe environment for her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThere are many young people like her who experience homelessness in our communities in South Auckland. These are young people with no adult in their corner, nobody who is looking out for them, and nobody who is making sure that they are going to school fed, clothed, warm, and dry. Nobody in her life who is able to provide her with some guidance and some support to get back into her education\u2014until she was one of the people lucky enough to find her feet with a social housing organisation like the one that she is in now. But that social housing organisation has a waiting list of 300 young people between the ages of 15 and 19, and that has increased 200 percent since last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThere are more and more young people who are facing not only homelessness but joblessness and a lack of education opportunities. They are the people we are considering today when we pass a piece of legislation like this, which introduces new sanctions that can be novelly and uniquely applied to young people. These are sanctions that other jurisdictions we like to compare ourselves to do not use against young people, because young people are the most vulnerable people when it comes to the burden of meeting the requirements of something like this. Young people who experience a situation like KJ\u2019s deserve our help, our support, and all of the resources of the State to get them back on track. This bill does exactly the opposite of that and will punish people like KJ, who have had a bit of a break.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a real shame to look at this kind of bill, which ignores the reality of youth unemployment, when this is also a Government that is crushing the industries that employ young people\u201414,000 construction jobs gone since the day this Government took office; a major employer of young men in the electorate of Manurewa, almost one in 10 young men employed in the construction sector. That industry is on its knees because this Government will not invest in a pipeline of public infrastructure builds and housing builds which we desperate need. Youth unemployment is not about sitting at home and languishing away; it is about a lack of opportunities, not a lack of motivation. Young people in New Zealand are hopeful for their futures, but when they don\u2019t have jobs to go to because of the economic choices taken by a Cabinet that ignores their needs, they are being deeply let down by the people who are meant to represent them\u2014many of them too young to even have a say in the democratic process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s young people like KJ who are going into an employment market now where they will be systematically disadvantaged, because it is these years when they need to get their start. The National Government says that they want to get young people into employment opportunities. Well, it\u2019s people like her who are competing against 35-year-olds because those 35-year-olds have been let go. It\u2019s the same experience I had in the global financial crisis, when young people like me were competing for jobs with people who were much older and more experienced than us, because the total size of the number of jobs in our economy drastically shrank. This Government is overseeing a steeper economic decline, and a steeper decline in industries, like building and construction, which generally employ young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EPunitive sanctions like this also increase the reapplication frequencies and, therefore, punish instability. People, like KJ, who don\u2019t have general access to a car or general access to transport, who face burdens to actually get into the office, let alone the technological burdens of being available online or through the phone, are also then disadvantaged by having extra sanctions placed on them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThis bill also extends periods where one mistake will be recorded on their record. If KJ gets something wrong, it will be on her record for two years. She\u2019s only 17; she will muck this up. Other people will too. This is a bill which actively stops young people getting ahead. This is a Government that has made choices to make it harder for young people. This is a Government that should be ashamed of that record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022bacecfabb10a4701a33e9759af251ccf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bacecfabb10a4701a33e9759af251ccf\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National):\u003C/span\u003E People who can work should work. People deserve to be more independent, on their own, and have a life away from welfare. People also deserve to have a Government that is fiscally responsible and that will help those who need help to be on their own two feet and enjoy a better life. So, therefore, I fully commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf72ddb0bc334d1fa7192ed9ce21a6c3\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Glen Bennett.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d24c21ace4dd4fa6a7cf8500880f5b50\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Oh no, not this guy!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb6890bc5d804448a9a628b1c51d439a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb6890bc5d804448a9a628b1c51d439a\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s funny, isn\u2019t it? It\u2019s hilarious. It is really funny, as we stand in this House this afternoon, and as we criticise our most vulnerable, that it is a joke. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ESo, as I stand here, controlling my anger and my distaste for\u2014as I stand in this place, which is so artificial. This place has no natural light. This place has no natural air flowing through. This place is in many ways a cocoon that protects us from the outside world and from what is reality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI think this is what this bill actually is about. It\u2019s the disconnection from the grassroots. It\u2019s the disconnection from the light and from the air of humanity that we need to address and talk about this afternoon. There\u2019re laughs and there\u2019re jeers, and I\u2019m fine with that because I don\u2019t expect anything better from the Government side of the House. The last time I spoke on this bill, I was mocked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221071ba1fb53745bc8cebdf85eadac852\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: Somebody\u2019s in a fantasy world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1f9b3888e06446cb998d6bf232991d5\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I was accused of being in a fantasy world\u2014and, again, this afternoon\u2014and I do not live in a fantasy world, because I live in the real world. I live in a community. I have been at the grassroots and continue to live in that community where this means something for them tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThis means something for them tomorrow because the journey they have been on, the experiences they have lived, are the reason many of them unwillingly sit on a benefit, who unwillingly have to go into the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) office, and have to go there not under their own will or choice, not happily or with delight, but with shame, but with embarrassment. I\u2019ve sat in the MSD office in Wellington, I\u2019ve sat in the MSD office in New Plymouth countless times with people who are embarrassed, are ashamed that they can\u2019t pay their own rent, that they can\u2019t fix their own car, that they can\u2019t feed their own family. Yes, we say we need to be punitive: \u201CThey can just go out and get a job. It\u2019s all good. Fine with them.\u201D We always have to come back to circumstances. The problem with this artificial room with no natural light is the fact that we actually can\u2019t see because it\u2019s so within the small box of legislation. You have to look out beyond that box and you have to look\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212439dc10f274fe08aad89767491a441\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: Do you want to speak to the bill a little bit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ed63efe60224f93b208dff171e623f0\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I am talking to this bill. You have to look out of the box of this room, Mr Mooney.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EMr Mooney said that National is about being fairer, National is about being more effective with our money\u2014that\u2019s what he said. He said they\u2019re all about a hand up. We agree that it\u2019s about a hand up, but we don\u2019t think it\u2019s about a boot in the guts. We do not believe in that. We believe in a hand up and we believe and know that our communities are better, our communities are richer, our communities are more prosperous when everyone has a hand up. We are with that, and we are on that kaupapa, and we want to make sure it happens. As I stand in this box that is so sterile, I think we need to reflect on those who we are talking about and we actually need to be talking with them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThis legislation does a number of things. I don\u2019t really need to go into it because it\u2019s been addressed several times already in the third reading, but I think we need to look at, actually, the reality of what it does out there. Does this fix the problem of unemployment? No. Does this lift people\u2019s mana? No. Does this lift our society and our communities of people who aren\u2019t able to find work? It does not. All it is is a kick in the guts, and it\u2019s unfair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EWe look at the unemployment numbers for our NEET community\u2014our young people who aren\u2019t in employment, education, and training. In the March quarter, there was just over 12 percent of our young people who are aged 15 to 24\u2014it was almost 13 percent, actually\u2014who are not in education, not in employment. We as a community need to stand up for them and make sure that they have every opportunity they have. I look at the community and the young people I have walked alongside for many years\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc00c59e0c5e4e618eb92b613d4037c1\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m hearing nothing about this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5666f402b6e4755b86d2a8a9609de53\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I say to that member who is shouting out at me, if they walked at least a week in their shoes alongside them, they\u2019d understand there are challenges that are there and we need to step up for the sake of a hand up. This is not a hand up; this is a boot in the guts. This will push people down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThe other thing in this legislation I want to address is the capacity of MSD. During scrutiny week last year, MSD admitted that they are pushed beyond capacity. This is just more paperwork, red tape\u2014have we heard of that before? This is more sanctions that MSD staff have to work on and have to deal with. We look at the rise in terms of those on the main benefit. We look at the fact that jobs in the backroom of MSD are going backwards by at least 700, and we wonder how, not only from a practical level but a humane level, we can actually agree to legislation like this in the House this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, the Social Security Amendment Bill is something that we will never agree on\u2014we will never agree on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022518f02f665ef4ac09803c5b3c70faae9\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t understand it. You haven\u2019t read.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200fc0b8deb4d4d9b9e7297da82ac067c\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Do you want to have a chat or a yarn, Mr Mooney?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a319d7466f84954820fbb65f83704f3\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no one\u2019s going to have a chat across the House, thanks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224035763977304ab29ec98afd70b5b217\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I just think it is disrespectful and it is rude and it is arrogant\u2014it is arrogant\u2014that this member would just continue to barrage myself in terms of what we\u2019re doing and what we\u2019re standing up for today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI have a young person who is in my life, and the circumstances of their life I don\u2019t need to even go into in this House. But I remember about two years ago, he came to me and said, \u201CI need to get a job. I\u2019m struggling and I need to get a job.\u201D And I said, \u201CGreat. Let\u2019s figure this out. Let\u2019s figure out a CV for you. Let\u2019s put it together.\u201D So we sat down and it was not easy to write a CV for this young person who, through circumstances not of their fault, they had never been in work since dropping out of school\u2014circumstances not of their doing but in terms of family circumstances that caused trauma and serious harm to this young person. Is that an excuse that he sits on the dole? No, it\u2019s not an excuse, but it\u2019s the reality of why he\u2019s there. So I helped with this one-page CV, which was very limited to name, contact details, what they like, their personal statement about who they are as a person. We put that one-page CV together, and then proceeded to go around New Plymouth to every tradie, every small shop, every business we could think of to give him a chance to get a job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EIt didn\u2019t work. He had no experience. He had been given no opportunities whatsoever. There was nothing that anyone wanted to touch this young man with because of experiences that had gone through his life which were not of his doing. Then, of course, the fact that there was no proven record. So he had to go back into the Work and Income New Zealand (WINZ) office. He had to go back and continue to be on the dole. I remember sitting with him in the WINZ office that afternoon, after we\u2019d spent probably three months just popping CVs in and around. The fact that he was actually so whakam\u0101 that I had to talk for him because he\u2019d tried but he gave up\u2014he thought, \u201CWhy would I bother?\u201D It\u2019s why would you bother when the door gets closed on you time and time again. I stand with him and I still stand with him, and I hope and I pray that he will get a job one day. But all I can do is stand beside him until that day comes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThis legislation isn\u2019t fair. This legislation doesn\u2019t pick people up, and I am opposed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022 data-id=\u00220b11609674744b40816d811d26030851\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b11609674744b40816d811d26030851\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E The Opposition can talk all day about the unemployment rate and how people struggle daily, but words are meaningless without action. On this side of the House, we focus on delivery. That\u2019s why, last month, I organised a job fair with the Auckland Business Chamber to help people in Mt Roskill to get back to work, because we believe that employment is the key to break the cycle of poverty. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e89fe20ae9e84a42b3694a1bcdc69d92\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Social Security Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000381\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f4c73da373dc48cbb5b56ad98bcf7927\u0022\u003EPublic Works (Critical Infrastructure) Amendment Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227148b2cddd624208ab8d0bab3bde1a1c\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022d53b1b6c8aad42acb5028dc1fd473caa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d53b1b6c8aad42acb5028dc1fd473caa\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information): \u003C/span\u003EThank you, Madam Speaker. I present a legislative statement on the Public Works (Critical Infrastructure) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd330d8427414282beecf1e7a54619c5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff9ed3795e82487fa06952e94e2af6b4\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Public Works (Critical Infrastructure) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Transport and Infrastructure Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 16 September 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ENew Zealand faces a significant infrastructure deficit. This has spanned generations and different Governments. To acknowledge that fact, to admit that fact, is not a politically partisan point; it is, in fact, simply reality. As our population grows and our existing assets continue to age, demand is mounting for us to build smarter, faster, and better, so that we might boost this nation\u2019s productivity and lift living standards for all New Zealanders. This challenge is particularly pressing for our transport networks. We need these routes to operate a 21st century standard, to move goods from Kiwi farms to global markets, to ensure that first responders can reach people in need, and to allow everyday Kiwis to get to work safely and efficiently so that our economy can continue moving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker and colleagues, the Public Works Act 1981 is the legislative tool that gives central and local government the authority to acquire and manage public land for the new infrastructure that New Zealanders need and deserve. I think it\u2019s fair to acknowledge\u2014again, over a period of time and not a politically partisan point\u2014that aspects of the operation of this legislation are no longer fit for purpose. Inefficient processes are causing costly delays, and too often the only progress on a project is a legal battle dragging on in a courtroom. These hold-ups are escalating costs and slowing the delivery of new roads, schools, housing, renewable energy projects, and hospitals. I should also add that as a matter of fairness to landowners, faster and fewer processes are most certainly needed. Our proposed amendments to the Public Works Act, on which I\u2019m speaking right now, will accelerate the delivery of critical infrastructure which is essential for New Zealand\u2019s economic growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESpeaking now as to the scope of the bill, it is designed to respond to the current critical infrastructure deficit and, as such, will apply to a finite set of projects. I\u2019ll make this point again at the close of my remarks, but for the clarity of the House now, I point out that other reforms in relation to the Public Works Act will be progressed by the Government separate to this\u2014a bill on what we\u2019re calling \u201Ccritical infrastructure\u201D. The bill will streamline the Public Works Act\u2019s land acquisition process for critical infrastructure projects that are listed in a schedule to the bill. These are public works projects that are listed on Schedule 2 of the Fast-track Approvals Act 2024 and the roads of national significance identified in the Government Policy Statement on land transport 2024. I should also emphasise that only the agencies that already and currently can use the Public Works Act to acquire land or interest in land\u2014these being the Crown, local authorities, and network utility operators, that are what we know as \u201Crequiring authorities\u201D\u2014will be able to use the critical infrastructure process. There\u2019s no broadening of the mandate of the legislation in that respect. So just to be very, very clear, private entities cannot acquire land under the Public Works Act, and this is not going to change with the proposed amendments to the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ETalking now about a replacement objection process\u2014the bill introduces a faster, fairer land acquisition process by replacing landowner objections to the Environment Court, with a streamlined submission process. It outlines the new objection process and establishes the criteria that decision makers must use when determining whether land can be compulsorily acquired under the Public Works Act. Importantly, judicial review remains an option, and I\u2019m confident that this process ensures natural justice rights are upheld. Judicial review, as members will likely know, relates to the inherent jurisdiction of the High Court. It\u2019s the right of a person who is affected by Government decision-making to go to the court and to test whether the authority of the executive branch of Government has been exercised in a way that is reasonable. That much will not change, and goes to the important point around natural justice rights\u2014for example, the right to be heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe Public Works Act separates public works into central government and also local works. The decision maker for central government work is the Minister for Land Information. A local authority, on the other hand, is the decision maker for a local work, as you might expect. Most land acquisitions under the Public Works Act are settled by agreement. In other words, a compulsory acquisition does not need to take place in the majority of cases. However, when objections are made and these reach the Environment Court, costs rise hugely for all concerned and project timelines blow out. The bill\u2019s proposed submission process will significantly reduce delays by allowing a decision within approximately 60 working days by the time the whole process is played out at its maximum, compared with the six to 12 months, or even longer, that it can take for the Environment Court and subsequent court hearings to hear objections. So while the bill streamlines the objection process, it will still require agencies to negotiate in good faith with landowners for at least three months before compulsory acquisition is considered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EAddressing now the subject of incentive payments to encourage agreement\u2014of course, noting that whether it\u2019s the streamlined process or the current standard court process, it is better for all concerned if agreement can be reached on a \u201Cwilling buyer, willing seller\u201D basis. To encourage landowners to reach agreement, therefore, on land that is needed for critical infrastructure, the bill introduces an incentive payment of 15 percent of the land\u2019s value for those who negotiate and sell early in the process. To ensure the scheme remains affordable, payments will be capped at $150,000, with a minimum payment of $5,000, notwithstanding the calculation that\u2019s otherwise made on the percentage basis. In addition, there is a recognition payment regime whereby the legislation provides an additional 5 percent recognition to landowners whose land is acquired, whether by agreement or compulsorily, as acknowledgment that their land is being used for critical infrastructure which will serve a significant purpose in improving the lives of their fellow New Zealanders. This payment has no minimum amount and is capped at $92,000. Of course, those who are adept at mathematics\u2014of any gender\u2014will know that the combined total of these is $242,000 where both incentive and recognition payments apply. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI should emphasise again, for the sake of clarity within this House but for anyone also following along closely who may be affected by such moves\u2014in a positive way, I hasten to add\u2014that the recognition payment and, where applicable, the incentive payment that I\u2019ve just outlined will be made on top of the existing compensation provided under the Public Works Act. So the new critical infrastructure incentive payment will replace the limited incentive payment regime currently under the Act, but again I emphasise, it is on top of the 100 percent of the value of the land that is already able to be established. In addition to the point I made earlier about the retention of judicial review avenue, so too will the Land Valuation Tribunal remain available to determine compensation disputes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s also important to highlight that protected M\u0101ori land will be excluded from this regime in a way that I\u2019ll now point out. The Government acknowledges that the historic confiscation of land, including through the previous versions of the Public Works Act, is a source of pain for many New Zealanders. In contrast to that history, more recently, acquiring M\u0101ori land for public works has been, and will remain under this regime, a last resort. Protected M\u0101ori land, as defined under the Public Works Act, cannot be acquired through the new critical infrastructure process. Owners of this type of land retain their full right to object through the Environment Court. If land acquisition must occur, such landowners will be eligible for the recognition payment and, where applicable, also the incentive payment to ensure that their role and contribution are properly acknowledged with respect to their unique connection to the land. That\u2019s a matter of legal and moral force, as far as I\u2019m concerned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EAgencies will be able to opt out. In other words, those who are responsible for critical infrastructure projects will have the ability to opt out of the new process on a project-by-project basis. If they choose to opt out, then any landowner objections will continue to be heard by the Environment Court, as under the current system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EFinally, transitional provisions are provided for in the proposed bill. They\u2019ll allow agencies to maintain momentum for critical infrastructure projects where land acquisition processes have commenced before the enactment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EFinally, or my additional final point\u2014my final, final point\u2014is that there will be a review after three years to ensure that the legislation is operating in a faster and fairer way as we intend. As I\u2019ve said earlier, in addition, there is a broader review of the Public Works Act outside this critical infrastructure kaupapa, and we\u2019ll have more to say about that and more in the House in due course. In the meantime, though, I look forward to colleagues\u2019 contributions, and I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00224b7f6ad44e384f01b89527a46d96c360\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b7f6ad44e384f01b89527a46d96c360\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u002215c474fce6984fa89f47d12643c4c88f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215c474fce6984fa89f47d12643c4c88f\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m just wondering whether there were any other final points from the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWe hear from Government \u201Cand we\u2019re here to help\u201D\u2014it\u2019s often said when officials come knocking on the door. Unfortunately, the Public Works Act is not one of those areas where most people see a huge benefit. Indeed, it\u2019s a piece of legislation that\u2019s been in place for a long time, as the Minister said, and it\u2019s necessary to ensure that we do allow for infrastructural development across our country. In many places and at many times and on many occasions, landowners and the Government are aligned; they still see the value of actually developing a work or a project that often impacts on the private land that someone might have or the interest that they have, and that moves along reasonably smoothly, and has done over decades, really, to give us the infrastructure we have. But, from time to time, conflict arises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party will support this piece of legislation, but we do expect the select committee to scrutinise this very carefully, because there are some serious questions that need to be answered. The Minister has said, and we agree, that there is an infrastructural deficit across our country. It\u2019s been exacerbated at times\u2014take, for example, the previous National Government that brought in \u201Csweat the assets\u201D on the roading infrastructure and then increased the tonnage of the trucks. That actually led to the rapid decline in the roading network that we\u2019re facing across this country, and I\u2019m sure my colleague Tangi Utikere will raise those issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe projects in Schedule 2 are, for the most part, transport\u2014there is one big housing project, but they\u2019re transport. What isn\u2019t in here is a list of water projects. The National Party and ACT\u2014and New Zealand First too\u2014criticised and slammed the Labour Government for its water initiatives, called \u201Cthree waters\u201D, and said it would throw that out and would put other alternative initiatives in place. We\u2019re yet to see them. We\u2019re yet to see any infrastructural proposals around water for this country. We have a couple of discussion documents and a bit of a proposal that tries to rope councils in, but, actually, we\u2019re not seeing much action. So, I do say, while we welcome the list of transport projects in here, and one for housing, there is a deficit in the deficit list that we should be looking at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ELook, the Minister has outlined some of the technical details of the legislation, but I\u2019d like to refer to the issue of property rights, which is where the conflict occurs in the Public Works Act: that is, the property rights of a landowner and then the objective of Government to move through that. The Government has got itself into a bit of a bind, I have to say, because it\u2019s been talking about the Resource Management Act (RMA) reform, which will form part of this process down the track, but enhancing property rights, it says\u2014RMA reform and enhancing property rights. Well, I\u2019ll put on the record now that jurisprudence will determine where the balance of that lies into the future. All the learnings, all the experience, and all the judicial advice that comes from the RMA in its cases over many years will be thrown out, and so people who think that they\u2019ve got better protection for their property rights, through the RMA reform, are being misled by this Government once again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThis bill rides over property rights, for good purpose; that is, it moderates them. It doesn\u2019t allow access to the Environment Court; people can choose to go to the Minister for decision making. This, potentially, might streamline the process, but it doesn\u2019t give any guarantees. The incentives through additional payments are a good step forward and probably will incentivise that hurry-up, but there is in section 39AAM an ability for the changes to be made to that compensation. The select committee, in my view, should scrutinise that: why should changes be able to be made when we\u2019re passing this through the legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ELabour will support this, but there are many questions that need to be answered by the select committee, and I know that my colleagues will be referring to some of those. Yes, we need good cooperative behaviour between landowners and the Government in infrastructure development, but we need to ensure that the balance is always maintained between property rights and the Government and other fairness through this process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u002251669f393f56403384c5d405a881e9f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251669f393f56403384c5d405a881e9f2\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. The country that we live in does need investment in infrastructure. The most pressing need is for infrastructure that rapidly reduces greenhouse gas emissions, that helps us stop the loss of biodiversity, that helps us end child poverty. There are so many things that we need to be investing in and, unfortunately, this Government is not making the right choices, by and large. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThis bill seems to be directly linked to the Fast-track Approvals Act, which the Green Party opposed, and it is not the reform of the Public Works Act that we need. We do need to reform the Public Works Act, and I was really sorry that Government MPs did not vote for my colleague H\u016Bhana Lyndon\u2019s member\u2019s bill that would have righted a historical wrong and made sure that M\u0101ori land was no longer taken in the same way under the Public Works Act. Of course, that was voted down by this Government\u2014hardly a surprise. This bill is the next stage in the fast-track approvals process, which is all about bulldozing through key critical checks and balances from the compulsory land acquisitions process in order to facilitate projects that, by and large, are taking us in the wrong direction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIt doesn\u2019t even matter whether you don\u2019t believe in climate change. I\u2019m sure there are Government members who don\u2019t believe in climate change and don\u2019t think we should do anything about it. The irony is that the vast majority of the transport projects listed in Schedule 2 don\u2019t even stack up according to the supposed objectives of the Government itself. If we want a transport system that\u2019s reducing cost, that\u2019s improving productivity, that\u2019s helping more people and goods move around the country, the vast majority of the transport projects listed in Schedule 2 do not do that. They certainly don\u2019t make improvements in a cost-effective way, and we know that from initial cost-benefit analysis. Although, if you ask the Government now for any information around cost or benefits related to any of the many highway projects that they are proposing to fast track, they will say, \u201CWe don\u2019t know the cost.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo they\u2019ve made these projects a priority without knowing the cost and without knowing the benefits. We have decades and decades now of evidence about what supports economic productivity and what the opportunities are for countries in terms of reducing the cost of moving people and goods. It turns out that what\u2019s good for the economy or productivity is also what\u2019s good for the climate, is also what\u2019s good for consumers. That is not spending billions of dollars on four-lane highways in cities or in the middle of nowhere, because there are more cost-effective ways to do it. The Government MPs just have absolute blinders on when it comes to this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThey will say over and over again that they care about cost-effectiveness, they care about economic productivity, they care about growth, and yet they will consistently support projects\u2014really, it\u2019s like cargo-cult economics. They\u2019ve been to some richer countries, and they saw some big roads and they think if we build them here, it will facilitate economic development. Go learn something about transport economics. It\u2019s so interesting. It\u2019s so fascinating. There are huge opportunities for New Zealand to reduce the burden of transport costs and it\u2019s not through four-lane highways at any cost anywhere. It\u2019s actually a bit deranged what\u2019s happening. It\u2019s a bit deranged the way they\u2019re so convinced that a four-lane highway is the answer to any problem in the absence of any actual economic analysis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe Green Party is not going to support this bill. We\u2019ll be looking closely at it at select committee. As has been mentioned by the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor, there are real tensions between the things they say they value\u2014like private property rights\u2014and this sort of bill which, basically, gives more power to the executive to compulsorily acquire land. They make up for it through making it possible for people who have their land taken to get maybe a bit more financial compensation. However, that doesn\u2019t reflect the fact that for many people, whenua doesn\u2019t have that monetary value; it can\u2019t be replaced with money. There is an attachment to the land that must be respected and there\u2019s more than just humans living on the land, and we should respect all life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWe would like to see a reformed Public Works Act. This isn\u2019t it. This is just a Government that is very autocratic and seems to hate the environment and has no concept of the challenges that are actually facing us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb157e7bc36a4ed1a911cef33ff72578\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb157e7bc36a4ed1a911cef33ff72578\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m taking this call on behalf of ACT to support the Public Works (Critical Infrastructure) Amendment Bill. The Minister in charge has already gone through everything that this bill does, so I won\u2019t take too much of the House\u2019s time. But what I would say is that we all know that we need to deliver a lot more infrastructure and we need to deliver in a timely manner, in an effective and efficient manner, but we also know that, when we are delivering infrastructure, there are a lot of processes, a lot of steps that are involved. Land acquisition is something that is a very important step when we start thinking about any new infrastructure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EWe have seen that some of the processes need streamlining. So what this bill does is it streamlines the objections process that is experienced when the step of land acquisition comes, and it also introduces some incentives. So what we want to see is that the process is faster but, at the same time, the process is fairer as well. Of course, we want to hear from the submitters in the select committee process. My colleague Cameron Luxton is on the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, and I\u2019m sure that the contributions that submitters will make in the select committee process will be taken on board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ESo we look forward to seeing in what form this bill is reported back from the select committee. The ACT Party supports this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022 data-id=\u00229aba2cb2da54456db48fed2ecd4a2be1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229aba2cb2da54456db48fed2ecd4a2be1\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m delighted to rise to speak to this bill\u2014[Knocks water glass] That\u2019s not a good start! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s all about making sure that we improve our economic productivity, and where I wanted to go to\u2014and this is front and centre for New Zealand First\u2014was the Infrastructure Commission. They presented to the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, which is where this bill is going to go to for consideration. What they said to us was, \u201CWe\u2019re investing enough money in infrastructure in this country to do the job that we need to do; the problem is that we\u2019re not getting value out of that money.\u201D, and what is happening there is that the processes, in many cases, whether it\u2019s the consenting process, the Public Works Act processes, etc., are holding the country back. So it is essential that we make sure that the Public Works Act process is efficient, and that is what this Government has been doing a lot of work on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019ve heard already, taking land compulsory is a really, really significant step. It\u2019s important that there are safeguards there. What this bill does, though, is to make sure that the Ministers who will make decisions in this case have to step through the same criteria as the Environment Court would have done previously, and that gives some protections there. It also brings in, as you\u2019ve heard, some incentives to try and reach agreement first, and that\u2019s obviously an important thing that needs to be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EBut I did want to tell you one very, very quick story and it\u2019s the story of Mt Messenger. We\u2019ve already talked about that last week in respect to the Wildlife Act. You have a new road being built up one valley, through a hill, down\u2014OK, you don\u2019t have a new road, Madam Speaker, but there is a new road being built up one valley, through a hill, and down another valley to then make the whole highway system work better. The problem is that somebody at one end of one valley is not willing to sell. The process has got convoluted. The New Zealand Transport Agency have had to do a very, very complex, very ingenious structure to try and make sure that they can actually build the road, but it is going to come at a cost of hundreds and probably hundreds of millions of dollars because of one person holding out in terms of the Public Works Act. If this was made more efficient and more effective, that means all that money could have gone to something else, whether it\u2019s roading, whether it\u2019s public transport, whatever it might have been, somewhere around New Zealand. That is about making New Zealand fly faster, fly higher, go faster, and that is really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EThat is what this bill is all about. I\u2019m looking forward to seeing it in front of the select committee, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022119ca291569b43f08e5548b83022dbbc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022119ca291569b43f08e5548b83022dbbc\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. Kei konei ahau ki te whakamahara i te Whare ki ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga o te whenua, ng\u0101 whenua ka tangohia i te iwi M\u0101ori me t\u0113nei pire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E[I am here to remind the House of the features of the land, of the lands that will be taken from the M\u0101ori people with this bill.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EKia ora. I think, given the nature of the earlier debates in the House this morning, it\u2019s really interesting that this Act, the Public Works Act, which has been around since about 1864, I think, is being amended to speed things up. Now, te iwi M\u0101ori haven\u2019t had a very good history or relationship with the Public Works Act since its inception in 1864. We talked about the 1863 invasions, this morning, when Tauranga suffered great losses, land losses\u2014all kinds of losses\u2014and a lot of those losses were exacted out of them through the first iteration of this Act. There\u2019s about 66 million acres of land in this country and, before the signing of the Treaty, M\u0101ori owned them all. There were a bunch of early land sales which were deemed illegal by the mid-1850s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274394640b15a45c99d704b99b9742cf7\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Back to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022777a8887339a4cbf9954c3cfe67f6aa5\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS\u003C/span\u003E: Catch up, junior\u2014you\u2019ll learn about this. You obviously weren\u2019t paying any attention this morning. Those land losses were deemed illegal. This would hold out until the 1860s, and, in the 1860s, M\u0101ori still retained about 80 percent of the North Island, where Tauranga is an iwi, where the invasions of Grey happened, where a lot of the land loss suffered by te iwi M\u0101ori was incurred. But, hey, hey, hey\u2014get back to the bill! These people, I tell you\u2014this is a Whanganui MP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori have suffered loss of land from the Crown through the Public Works Act since 1864, and the scale of that land was probably somewhere in the range of 20 million acres, leading into the 1900s\u201420 million acres. Today, they want to show up with this piece of paper and tell me that incentive payments are going to build trust in te iwi M\u0101ori because it\u2019s going to fix everything! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EYou want to learn to listen. You want to learn to go and actually speak to the people who suffered land loss on a staggering scale in this country, at the hands of this very legislation\u2014at the hands of this very legislation. The Government, with all these boys from Tauranga who talk so wholeheartedly about their journeys as young men looking at ancient p\u0101 sites and battlegrounds\u2014that\u2019s the story in the morning, but in the afternoon it\u2019s \u201CLet\u2019s push the old Public Works Amendment Bill through.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b19054b1506445c48dbb760f8ef4b29e\u0022\u003EHon Casey Costello\u003C/span\u003E: M\u0101ori want roads, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245753a89882743429cad019a31b98f68\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll tell you about M\u0101ori and roads. M\u0101ori retained a lot of land into the late 1800s, and do you know what the Public Works Act allowed the Government to do? To put paper roads through that land and carve it up, because the Government was able to then go and take land that was 5 acres either side of that road, even if the road wasn\u2019t built. So don\u2019t throw your things around from that side of the House, because you know absolutely nothing about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfb2a59e19af4248b35244adbfed2ea5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Please don\u2019t bring the Speaker into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223439d8bf386447a5bdaef3e84e839c0e\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t let the Government throw their ignorance around the House like it means something when the people in the Government obviously know nothing about the history of the thing. You\u2019re in here pleading \u201CPoor you\u201D and \u201CI\u2019m going to look after Tauranga Moana\u201D in the morning, and you\u2019re here in the afternoon passing an amendment to the same Act that led to a lot of the devastation that the M\u0101ori people around the country have had to live with. So ka haere tonu. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E[So it continues.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EBy the 2000s, the retention of M\u0101ori land in M\u0101ori hands was down to about 4 million acres\u20144 million acres, and a large proportion of that was tied up in the M\u0101ori Land Court, which isn\u2019t like the title suggests, right? It\u2019s the \u201CP\u0101keh\u0101 Control of M\u0101ori Land Court\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori suffer the greatest losses, and despite the guarantees or the hopes of the new legislation that perhaps, one day, M\u0101ori land will be valued at the same value as general land\u2014why would that not already be the case? That\u2019s another story for another day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EAnyway, here we are. We find ourselves listening to ideas all proposed on the premise of good economic productivity that has never managed to trickle down to te iwi M\u0101ori. So we do not support the bill. T\u0113n\u0101 koe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u00222a2857b3023142dd8a28976a802af744\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a2857b3023142dd8a28976a802af744\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E We\u2019re in desperate need, as a country, to get on and build infrastructure. If you look at the estimates from the Infrastructure Commission, or independent consultant estimates, the need for infrastructure around this country is running into the hundreds of billions of dollars, so I support this bill. The purpose is simply to look at streamlining the land acquisition process under the Public Works Act for the Fast-track Approvals Act and those projects that are listed in Schedule 2\u2014and, in particular, the roads of national significance, which is a high priority for this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EI look forward to the select committee process, as deputy chair of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, along with my colleagues Andy Foster and Tangi Utikere and other colleagues around the House; we\u2019ve got members from the Green Party here as well. I want to reassure people that you\u2019ll get a fair hearing at the select committee, so I\u2019d like to encourage people to submit on this bill. Particularly, I\u2019m keen to hear from those who have been through the land acquisition process before, whether it\u2019s private individuals, iwi organisations, or also private companies, just to understand what the current fish-hooks are with the Public Works Act and to make sure that we\u2019ve struck the right balance with this bill. Otherwise, I commend the Minister for Land Information for bringing this bill to the House, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022e50a95ca9e0e4cb08f5f4d13508ca0ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e50a95ca9e0e4cb08f5f4d13508ca0ba\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s great to be able to take a call on this bill at first reading. It\u2019s a very important Act that this bill is seeking to amend, because it is one that when it is utilised, it is overtly empowering. What that means is it basically has the potential to railroad over many people\u2019s rights. My colleague the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor touched on those property rights and landowners\u2019 rights that this has the interface alongside, so it is important that we do take some time to talk through some of the issues that might come up in select committee. As my colleague has said, we will be supporting this bill to select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI look forward, as a member of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, as Mr Bidois has said, to engaging with the submitters over this. I do hope that many people will submit to have their views known, because the need for safeguards in any form of empowering legislation is very important, and so that\u2019s part of the process, so I look forward to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe bill has a couple of schedules attached to it. Schedule 2, which basically identifies the list of critical infrastructure projects\u2014and it is a significant list. But when one looks through those projects there, the overwhelming nature of them are transport-related. When we look at the Airport to Botany Rapid Transit project, when we look at the Auckland Level Crossing Removal Programme, when we look at an alternative to the Brynderwyns, these are a whole range of transport-related infrastructure projects that are currently on the Government\u2019s roads of national significance list.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ENow, whether they actually come to fruition, of course, is another question, but it is interesting that they are contained here. When one looks at the regulatory impact statement (RIS)\u2014interestingly enough, this is actually a Government bill that does have a RIS associated with it\u2014it does identify that depending on the final decisions that are taken, any roads of national significance that are due for construction over that three-year period will need to acquire around 500 properties. That\u2019s a significant amount, so it\u2019s important that we do engage and hear from the community around this and, in particular, around the list of projects that\u2019s contained in Schedule 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWhen I was having a look through there, there\u2019s not much in the South Island, of course, because this is a Government that doesn\u2019t really care about infrastructure in the South Island, but there is the Lower North Island Integrated Mobility there. And, of course, it\u2019s good to see my colleague the Hon Kieran McAnulty here, because he is responsible for securing the funding for the Wairarapa line between Wellington and Masterton whilst in Government, and it\u2019s good to see that there\u2019s secured funding as well for the Wellington to Palmerston North line in Schedule 2 on page 26 of the bill. So it would be interesting to hear from communities in those affected areas about what this bill might mean for them to be able to deliver on the infrastructure needs of this particular project.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EMr O\u2019Connor did reference the fact that I may wish to touch on some of the transport needs around infrastructure as they relate to this bill. While I have done that, I do want to pick up on the point that he has made around the real need for increased investment in infrastructure, particularly when it comes to transport. He cites, rightly, the one example\u2014that the former National Government introduced an ability for an increase in tonnage of heavy vehicles to be travelling the rail network. What does that mean? It means an increase in the need for maintenance costs over a shorter period of time. So it\u2019s these decisions that have led to the infrastructure deficit that this country is facing and so it\u2019s important that we do think about this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EOne of the concerns that we will be interested to look at, at select committee, is the role that decision makers will have. What has already been said from the Minister is that this will basically move some of that decision-making capacity from the Environment Court across to Ministers. While Mr Foster talked in his contribution about how Ministers will follow the same process, we must have our eyes open to the fact that it is Ministers that will be making these decisions\u2014very different from those of the judiciary. So through the select committee process, we will be looking to tease that out to ensure that there is a level of robustness that is still within the bill to ensure that that is an important factor that is taken up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ESo it is important to see this come through select committee. I look forward to working with colleagues around the House to see what we can do to make it a better bill. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2801c6878754aaeb11706daecedb481\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2801c6878754aaeb11706daecedb481\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E We are reforming the Public Works Act to support economic growth and to make it easier and cheaper to build infrastructure. This amendment bill will streamline the land acquisition process under the Public Works Act for critical infrastructure projects, such as the Crosstown Corridor, which involves constructing a railway from Avondale, via Wesley, Mount Roskill, and Onehunga, to KiwiRail Southdown freight hub. People in Mt Roskill will be very happy to have this project fast tracked as it will improve the transport network and benefit people in Mt Roskill. It will be a great day for Mt Roskill. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea9a283a2a024265b587cccf8234d0d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea9a283a2a024265b587cccf8234d0d3\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. As we listened to the arguments and the debates around the House, I\u2019ve been reading up and trying to understand a bit about what this legislation is about, what it does, but also why it is necessary. I have questions around the need for this legislation. I have questions, but, at the same time, as, I think, our small\u2014we often think of it as small and agile, but often it\u2019s heavy and big and clunky. But we get to take things to select committee, where the public gets to engage, where we\u2019ll get professionals from infrastructure industries, we\u2019ll get people from the public, and we\u2019ll get people from the environment sector to actually have their say and to engage in making the laws\u2014which we present here at first reading\u2014at select committee, hopefully making them better if they need to be, or throwing them out completely if they need to be, and that is a good thing. So I\u2019m glad that the Government is taking this to the Transport and Infrastructure Committee. I\u2019m glad it\u2019s not being rushed through under urgency, because there are questions when it comes to the Public Works (Critical Infrastructure) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI just want to touch on briefly, this afternoon, the role of the Environment Court. As I was looking through the legislation, there\u2019s several references to the Environment Court. Looking at the explanatory note at the start, it talks about the fact that this bill is around \u201Cstreamlining the objection process, which replaces the right to object to the Environment Court with a natural justice process allowing for written submission to the decision maker[s]:\u201D\u2014written submissions, not an oral hearing, not going to the Environment Court, but written submissions made to the decision maker. Now, that might sound OK on paper. It might sound like something that\u2019s fairly non-offensive or that doesn\u2019t cause any issues, but I believe that there\u2019s something we need to dig into, we need to think about, and we need to understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EAlthough legislation, as I said earlier, is done in isolation and we focus just on this bill, we look at what\u2019s gone before: the Fast-track Approvals Act, which is mentioned in here, and what that does in terms of undoing some of our environment protections. We look at what this law does, if it goes through as it is currently written, and what that\u2019s going to mean in terms of our environmental responsibilities and the responsibilities of the Environment Court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI was reading up on this and I looked at some comments that have been made about this bill. It was Simpson Grierson who made a few thoughtful comments around some concerns they have. I think it\u2019s always good to listen to experts and understand what they say. Like we\u2019ve already said, we\u2019re happy to take this to select committee to develop it more and to understand whether it\u2019s something we will continue to support. But a comment that Simpson Grierson made was that in removing the Environment Court objection process, there are potential concerns regarding the independence of the primary decision-makers\u2014as I said in my earlier comments, the fact that the Environment Court doesn\u2019t participate but the fact you can write a submission to the decision maker. Simpson Grierson put some concerns around that. They put some caveats around the fact that we need to be cautious and we need to be careful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EYes, I understand what the Government is doing. I understand that they\u2019re moving things through faster. I understand that. But it can\u2019t come at the expense of democracy. It can\u2019t come at the expense of those who have skin in the game, whose land it might be, or who might have connections to that space\u2014that they just get ignored or they just get to write something to the decision maker, because that is a concern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ESimpson Grierson also went on to say that this is a piecemeal and fragmented approach to legislative reform and it runs the risk that we\u2019ll end up with a disjointed and confused Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ESelect committees are one of my favourite parts of being a politician\u2014the fact that we get to thrash things out, the fact that we get to have a contest of ideas across the table, and the fact that we get to listen to submitters, to experts, and to concerned members of the public who want to have their voice heard. So we will vote for this this afternoon. We will take it to select committee. But I caution the fact that, again, there are environmental protections that seem to be loosened and relaxed by this legislation, and I think we need to take that into consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u002204e39de515744fba9df843827e0cdca7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002204e39de515744fba9df843827e0cdca7\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealanders wanted a Government to get stuff done, and New Zealanders understand that that takes actually doing things. What this bill enables is agreement between parties to acquire land in order to move things along that need to happen in this country. It\u2019s practical, it\u2019s by agreement, it\u2019s what New Zealanders want in terms of being able to get stuff done in this country. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002226c8a1fdbbbf464eab9d4628ae25d9a4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Public Works (Critical Infrastructure) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 21\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000455\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00225ad859f0682946ea8620cd2ba5d7a700\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ad859f0682946ea8620cd2ba5d7a700\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Public Works (Critical Infrastructure) Amendment Bill be considered by the Transport and Infrastructure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Transport and Infrastructure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c19e3b14b06a4844b1f4dd7b4354ac1d\u0022\u003EInstruction to the Transport and Infrastructure Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a60ba9d9fc474598b9258c8f9ccab1d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a60ba9d9fc474598b9258c8f9ccab1d9\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Public Works (Critical Infrastructure) Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 16 September 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022943419f493934213949e0c312a42e04e\u0022\u003ERacing Industry Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022334dbafbcb5c476b85caa9c64aff1240\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000464\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 14 May.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00223dbf1dbec4154310abbb3550afe9bf3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223dbf1dbec4154310abbb3550afe9bf3c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: We are up to No. 5 and it is a National Party call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022 data-id=\u00220ae7083f443f47b486055b981fd73cba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ae7083f443f47b486055b981fd73cba\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you. Look, there were three key issues that came out of the select committee. Firstly, one was from the National Sporting Organisations. In short, they think they generate about 30 percent of the income but get 20 percent of the profits. They\u2019d like a different proportion set in law. We think probably regulation is the place for that. It\u2019s a fair point, but regulation may be better than capturing it in law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EThe second was around new products\u2014virtual, fantasy, and even things like in-race betting. Again, there are some valid questions there, particularly I think in the fantasy space. However, this bill is probably too narrow for them to be incorporated into that one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EThe third issue was really around the monopoly issues, and, in particular\u2014and we heard some discussion last night\u2014around the fact that some bettors feel like they were banned because they were too good but they don\u2019t get given a reason. At the moment, that\u2019s in clause 8 of this bill. I think it\u2019s a fair point to raise, but I do think there\u2019s an open question about whether that should be captured in this primary legislation or in regulation. That would be worthy of a bit more discussion, perhaps at the committee stage. Other than that, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002270bd7ec3105e4af9b17c674bc2294098\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270bd7ec3105e4af9b17c674bc2294098\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Costley.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u00220f190096e8a4445095be249b56996f40\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f190096e8a4445095be249b56996f40\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I rise to speak on the Racing Industry Amendment Bill for its second reading. This bill is to safeguard the long-term financial sustainability of New Zealand\u2019s racing industry by extending TAB New Zealand\u2019s existing monopoly on sports and race wagering to include online betting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EAs my colleague Tim Costley just outlined, this bill was considered by the Governance and Administration Committee. They\u2019ve poured a lot of time into considering the legislation, listening to the submissions received on it, engaging with the racing Minister as well, in particular. Therefore, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u002248ffbc367e1a4147879c1f0b5c822d30\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248ffbc367e1a4147879c1f0b5c822d30\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eca526847b7c4893b619fd17ab468a8e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: So this is the split call at call six, is that correct?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b20af4ef1eb45379825d0a4c1ce9745\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s correct, yeah.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022169a9ffd0890458a925eb15e0a968720\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: So you realise that that call was missed, so I\u2019m just alerting the members that when it is the call, for the party to take the call at the right time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edee3fab85a943cdb3183f96eacfaf5e\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I apologise for that, Madam Speaker. I wasn\u2019t in the Chamber so I\u2019m sorry for my lateness. [Interruption] Pardon me? I missed that. The Green Party is supporting this Racing Industry Amendment Bill. I just wanted to say that we are not dewy-eyed about the insidious character of gambling in our society. I have a now deceased member of my family that was of modest means but who spent a large amount of money on the horses and other forms of gambling. This is not an unfamiliar story in our country. Gambling can be a very destructive practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EIt is all important that if there is gambling that a substantial amount of resources are funnelled towards those who work in the prevention of problem gambling and help people who have gambling issues. Gambling is like an addictive substance. It is something that people get into a habit of and find it very hard to stop. It has similar effects on the brain as addictive substances. It is like a stimulant; the thrill of losing and the thrill of winning have a similar chemical effect. So the Green Party in supporting this bill is not endorsing the scale of a gambling sector that gives a relatively tiny amount of what it makes to dealing with those people who suffer the negative impacts of gambling in their lives that impact their families and impact their children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EOur party policy requires that we prevent new forms of gambling that are associated with harm and regulate all existing forms of gambling to prevent or minimise harm. So we take a harm minimisation approach similar to the approach we take on drugs. This bill does not prohibit online betting services by offshore operators\u2014I mean it does, rather, that\u2019s exactly what it does. It does prohibit online betting services. Online gambling is one of the riskier forms of gambling due to its easy access and easiness to conceal. Offshore operators are also not covered by New Zealand law and the protections provided by regulation and any income that offshore operators garner from New Zealand domestic gamblers do not contribute to those racing code distributions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EWe previously have supported legislation in 2019 to introduce offshore betting charges with revenue distributed amongst the racing codes, which we determined was sensible, given the current racing industry provides a service to offshore vendors for no compensation. The same justification applies to prohibiting offshore betting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThe primary point of the bill is to protect the financial sustainability of the racing industry, and my colleague Celia Wade-Brown last night articulated very clearly just how dependent the racing industry is on income from gambling. But not just the racing industry; other sports are dependent. From memory, as much as 40 percent of the income of tennis in New Zealand comes from gambling, which is notable. Given our issue with the impact of racing on animals, for example\u2014and I\u2019m noting the clear and commendable position of this Government to bring greyhound racing to an end with the support of every party in this House\u2014we are concerned at the impact of gambling, and we would like to see more efforts made to minimise it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EOne of the obvious things that could be done\u2014as a point of note before I finish\u2014is the prohibition on the advertising by gambling outlets. Advertising has a very marked impact on those who are dependent on things from alcohol to tobacco to gambling, and it would be an easy step to prohibit the advertising of gambling in this country. That is something that I\u2019m sure the Green Party would support. We will be supporting this bill, however. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u00225e2fb82c26ee45e28cc744a1040dceee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e2fb82c26ee45e28cc744a1040dceee\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to stand in support of the Racing Industry Amendment Bill. I note a number of the comments from the submitters about, too often, the slow passage of legislation in the House, whereby, by the time this comes into effect, the sector will have moved on again. Such is the nature of online gambling and the way that people interact with the sporting sector. Noting a significant increase, in particular an interest at the moment, for example\u2014I was checking on some statistics earlier\u2014that betting out of New Zealand on matters such as the NBA finals, which are taking place right now, causes a significant spike in the betting. I don\u2019t have a horse in that race. Sadly, my Los Angeles Lakers got knocked out early in the playoffs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022695a7453f81745b3af99ab41814b8df4\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, what?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f06e85091894079829506e648ac38f0\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I know, right? Everyone thought LeBron would take us to the glory land, but, sadly, that didn\u2019t happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7723936220640bab95b133d0d0b2381\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: But hey, \u201CUp the Wahs!\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270f9ed23883e4df29e824c43bee8718c\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s always \u201CUp the Wahs!\u201D, but never say that it\u2019s our year. I didn\u2019t say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EBut you notice there is, as the season of sports continues to play out\u2014and in particular in the US, where there\u2019s a significant growth in interest from New Zealand and Australia in betting on sports generally through the US predominantly. I think one of the main reasons for that is simply because of the sports analytics related to the likes of NBA and NFL which far outweigh any kind of sports analytics that we might see here in New Zealand. But I suspect that that\u2019s coming. I don\u2019t think listening to Jeff Wilson, as much as I admired him as a rugby player\u2014I don\u2019t think listening to him as a sports analytic is going to help your betting odds. But certainly, as technology continues to show its impact on, in particular, the racing industry but more broadly speaking the betting industry, it\u2019s important to make sure that legislation like the one we\u2019re supporting here and the regulations that follow this, continue to keep up with the market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EWe note that there was a significant number of submitters on this particular bill, predominantly in support. One of the common themes that came through from the submitters was the fact that\u2014and my Green colleague mentioned it and I thought explained it quite well with respect to problem gambling and gambling harm. We know that in the legislation as it currently stands, there\u2019s a view to making sure that those that are working in minimising harm from gambling continue to receive funds to be able to do that important work as we see the growth of this industry. We want to see that continue. We\u2019re encouraged and heartened by the point that it\u2019s in this particular bill to make sure that we continue to have a view towards minimising harm from gambling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EWe note too that the provision in the amendment and the bill itself also speaks to giving the TAB the ability to identify problem gamblers, those who they can deny the opportunity to place a bet, which I think is important. However, I\u2019d make the point, though, that the policing of that, I think, I\u2019m not too sure how that might work. If it\u2019s strictly up to the TAB to be able to do that, that\u2019s fine, I get that, because that\u2019s the one portal we\u2019re trying to make here with respect to online gambling and sports betting, in particular on the races. But making sure that we can enforce that, continue to monitor to make sure that TAB are, indeed, fulfilling that particular part of the bill that we are debating here today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EThe next part, which I think is quite important and it\u2019s been raised by a number of speakers in the House, is the formula by which they distribute money to the codes here in New Zealand. There were a number of comments about making sure that those codes were well represented on the board. We know that the Minister can already appoint members from certain codes to that particular board. While this bill doesn\u2019t exactly make sure that the Minister does that, because the Minister still has the right to appoint to the board anyway, we would encourage, through the ongoing dialogue with this bill moving forward, that we would be able to make sure that those sports are represented fairly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EOn Sunday, I had the good fortune, thanks to the Minister for Sport and Recreation, the Hon Mark Mitchell, who helped me get along to the Tall Blacks and the Tall Ferns game in Hamilton on Sunday. Simply looking at the odds and talking to a number of people around me, people were extremely interested in how they might be able to be part of the betting syndicate or the betting fund, if you will, from Sunday. That\u2019s why, with the significant growth and sponsorship that goes into basketball, I think, and we think on this side of the House, that it\u2019s important that those particular emerging and growth sports such as basketball in this country can have a voice at the table when the dividends or the money is divvied out amongst the sports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI already mentioned how it depends on the season and where people are betting and what sports are going on at the time. So you see those surges and you see it in New Zealand, and making sure that in the community that that support continues to flow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EJust one final point from me, because, as I say, we support this bill. The other point we want to make is around making sure that there\u2019s an amendment in this bill that talks about allowing the Minister to receive information or data from the TAB. I think that\u2019s a great thing. My question for the House and for the Minister, moving forward, is: will that data be transparently afforded to the New Zealand public? Is it data that could be reviewed and analysed by this House? Is it data that can continue to inform this House\u2019s deliberation on the regulations moving forward? Whatever those might look like with respect to this bill. I think we\u2019re already in great agreement across this House that data and information is king. I acknowledge that the Minister can receive and can demand that data from these sources, but we want to make sure that as we deliberate, that that data becomes available to this House and also the public, if that\u2019s able to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EBut none the less, we\u2019re supportive of this particular bill. For those who, as I said, get into sports betting\u2014I for one keep an eye on sports overseas. I\u2019ve spoken about the NBA. Just finally from me, in the first week of September is the start of the NFL season. My Philadelphia Eagles won the Super Bowl recently and I expect them to repeat next year. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u00220020600a24f641638cb42faa589bf12b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220020600a24f641638cb42faa589bf12b\u0022\u003EHon MELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I won\u2019t be taking a very long call, because I believe that my colleagues from right across the Chamber have actually iterated very succinctly what this bill is all about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EHaving said that, I just want to go to the genesis of where this bill actually comes through. The background is the Racing Industry Act 2020 that, effectively, created TAB New Zealand as a statutory entity to manage sports and race wagering, actually empowering them to partner with offshore operators and introduce things like betting information news and point-of-consumption charges to generate extra revenue for TAB in order for them to support sporting entities. However, what actually happened is that the offshore operators, effectively, have captured the market, and TAB was not able to continue to fund the racing industry, which relies very heavily on the TAB revenue to operate. I think it\u2019s really important to note that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe Racing Industry Amendment Bill actually safeguards the long-term financial stability of New Zealand\u2019s racing industry, extending TAB\u2019s ability to give funding to sporting codes, and I think it\u2019s a good thing. I thank the Governance and Administration Committee, who worked really hard, and the clerks and the advisers, who have actually given us expert advice. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf6b39286c61419594b590242e13ddc2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf6b39286c61419594b590242e13ddc2\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This call is a split call\u2014the Hon Dr Duncan Webb.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00225c60d559581943ef9108fc8d3ac47010\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c60d559581943ef9108fc8d3ac47010\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m not well known for my support of the racing industry. Having said that, I do enjoy going to the races on occasion, sometimes with my friend Kieran McAnulty; his tips are pretty good. Certainly, I\u2019m pretty sure that he supports the racing industry via the TAB, as do many other New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI actually want to have a bit of a focus in my speech on gambling harm, because I do think whenever we\u2019re talking about gambling and, being a responsible Government around gambling, we do need to think about gambling harm. In fact, one of the most harmful forms of gambling is online gambling, and whilst this bill won\u2019t solve all of those problems, it will at least in respect of the racing industry. By making it illegal for operators\u2014other than the TAB\u2014to offer gambling around racing to New Zealanders, it means that there\u2019s a tighter regulation around that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not often that we, kind of, support monopolies, but, in the case of sports gambling and gambling on racing, I think it\u2019s appropriate for two reasons: one, so that we can have better oversight over harm minimisation, but also because of the fact that the TAB, in part, funds both sports and racing. So this is a good thing for both those reasons. I was quite gratified to see the good work that the select committee did, both around regulation-making powers, to just flesh out somewhat the expectations, or the ability to make regulations around different kinds of gambling harm and the responses to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWe know that, in fact\u2014perhaps bizarrely\u2014when you\u2019re gambling online, through an account, the ability to track gambling behaviour is greatly enhanced, so the TAB and anyone else in that space is able to see problem-gambling behaviour, see repeated gambling, and see the time at which people are gambling, and all those kinds of things. The ability to make regulations to do things like place time restrictions on when a person can bet or place restrictions around the amount they can bet, but also\u2014and this is really important\u2014put regulations around how to respond to people who self-identify as problem gamblers. In fact, that\u2019s one of the main things people do\u2014they kind of wake up the next morning and think, \u201CWhat have I done?\u201D They self-identify and say, \u201CI\u2019ve got a problem, and I need the operator\u201D\u2014here, the TAB\u2014\u201Cto help.\u201D It\u2019s absolutely a duty on that operator to respond in a proportionate and appropriate manner, and there have been instances, in respect of some gambling operators, where that hasn\u2019t occurred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI just did also want to touch on some other aspects of the bill, and in particular the refusal of bets. In one sense, we can see why the TAB should be able to refuse any bet from anyone at any time, but I see now the select committee, in considering it, if you\u2019ve got a monopoly operator\u2014and people do gamble; they like to have a flutter on the horses or whatever\u2014then we have to be a bit more responsible about turning people away. I think the committee actually landed at a pretty good place, which wasn\u2019t actually to constrain the TAB\u2019s ability to refuse bets; I think that it\u2019s actually really important for them to have that ability. But they could make mistakes\u2014it might be a mistake as to identity, might be some other mistake about the amounts they\u2019re betting, or whatever it might be. Now, they have to give reasons for a refusal of a bet, and I think that\u2019s a sensible thing to do. So if they\u2019re like, \u201COh, no, I\u2019m not that John Smith\u201D or \u201CNo, that wasn\u2019t my bet; I was betting on behalf of someone else\u201D, or whatever it might be, I think that\u2019s a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ELook, great news for the racing industry\u2014good work. Pity about the pokie machines that aren\u2019t going to be banned; that\u2019s a real missed opportunity. I know that we would have done that, and I think that would have reduced gambling harm and been good for the community. But, overall, it\u2019s a worthwhile piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022 data-id=\u00220525cb8ef7a24da6ad075b915ef25968\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220525cb8ef7a24da6ad075b915ef25968\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. This amendment will extend TAB New Zealand\u2019s exclusive right for sports and racing betting to include online platforms, but it will be a boost for Kiwi sports and racing. It\u2019s expected that that revenue will mean more will be fed back into sporting bodies. I just had a bit of a nosy\u2014in 2023, for example, in the Wairarapa electorate, some of the beneficiaries of the $17.8 million contributed to communities that year were Central and Southern Hawkes Bay Eventing, for cost of medical for an event; Wairarapa Cricket Association; Wairarapa football club; Wairarapa Bush Rugby Referees Association, that was for replacing gear; and Wairarapa Netball Inc. So there is a lot of good that comes from the contributions that they distribute throughout our communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003EI also had a good talk to a mate of mine from one of New Zealand\u2019s premier thoroughbred studs, Sam and Catriona Williams of Little Avondale, and I think they\u2019re still actually celebrating their success at the Australian yearling sale, where they sold a Zoustar colt for a record $1.7 million. The Wairarapa is still incredibly proud of their success, and Sam tells me that they\u2019re absolutely in favour of this bill. So am I. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022 data-id=\u00223c4785e6a40e4f4482f5a99ac8b79e89\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c4785e6a40e4f4482f5a99ac8b79e89\u0022\u003ELEMAUGA LYDIA SOSENE (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m very pleased to be the final speaker on this side of the House to do with the Racing Industry Amendment Bill. It\u2019s important that I make a contribution for the bill as a member of the Governance and Administration Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003ELast night, we heard Minister Jones, in terms of the legislative statement to the second reading, and we know that the second reading is about the process on this bill. We understand that protection and long-term sustainability is very important to New Zealand\u2019s racing industry. This amendment bill to the Racing Industry Act 2020 is to extend the TAB\u2019s existing land monopoly for sports and racing betting to include online-provided wagering. Labour, under the last Government, had progressed some of the work in this space, and we are quite disappointed that the Minister has not taken on board those class 4 licences, which cause a lot of harm in our community, and has not factored it in at this time. So we look forward to the committee stage, where we can scrutinise and ask specific questions around online harm minimisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EMy colleague Tangi Utikere acknowledged and highlighted the workforce\u2014the over 13,500 workers in the racing industry. Actually, if you include the volunteers and those who work at racing meets, that figure goes up to 40,000 jobs in the racing industry. That\u2019s a significant amount of workers that contribute in terms of the revenue that is gathered for the racing industry, to the extent of $1.9 billion that is circulated into the industry. We heard also the comments and contributions on the relationship of TAB New Zealand and Entain, which is about 25 years old and counting, and we know that there\u2019s a payment of $100 million secured as a result of that relationship\u2014revenue that is continuing to be generated in Aotearoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EI wanted to highlight, in my contribution, the online harm minimisation that is prevalent in our community. We\u2019ve heard Dr Webb make some comments, and others in their contributions. It is really important\u2014and for the record\u2014the class 4 licences that are prevalent in our community cause a lot of online harm. Whilst, for the punters, it is their decision how they spend their money and where they go to in terms of the community, I wanted to raise the issues and the focus as to why harm prevention, consumer protection, and harm minimisation are really important issues. Under Labour, we did lobby that, for class 4 licences, there needs to be the understanding, of those in the racing industry, that whilst it brings revenue and the sustainability of the industry is important, there is another factor that the Problem Gambling Foundation and community groups have raised with specific MPs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EAs an MP in South Auckland, I understand the importance of online gambling harm. There is a side that punters in our community have that choice; that\u2019s not a problem. But where those that cannot control\u2014they would like to gamble and continue to do that. It is affecting our M\u0101ori, our Pasifika, our ethnic community, and what is alarming is our younger population.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003ESo the South Auckland communities\u2014one of the things with the class 4 licences that I understand that was raised with TAB New Zealand, who then chose not to\u2014[Mic static]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209732d8107d64db39c169e9fda4c81a1\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think it was just interference, but if I\u2019m told different, we\u2019ll do something different. Carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264dd912aafd848749e3ab819cf6f3e60\u0022\u003ELEMAUGA LYDIA SOSENE\u003C/span\u003E: TAB New Zealand were then told not to\u2014oh, I\u2019ve lost my train of thought, but anyway. As we understand throughout Aotearoa, the online world for our younger generation is really prevalent. Some of the decision making that happens around online gambling\u2014I personally believe that there\u2019s not enough emphasis of not enough education. When you have a community who can make choices but they don\u2019t have as much money as other wealthier communities, sometimes those choices for our young people can diminish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EThrough the Governance and Administration Committee process, it was interesting to read some of the information and submissions by the national sporting organisations that wanted to say, \u201CYes, it\u2019s good to have this revenue. Yes, it\u2019s good to have the amendment of the Racing Industry Act.\u201D But there is a big part of that to do with harm minimisation. So one of the things that I will continue to question in the committee process is: have we got the instruments right? Do the Minister and the officials\u2014yes, there\u2019s a big component around the revenue and what that brings into Aotearoa, but there has to be the commitment and there\u2019s got to be the right legislative tools to be able to counteract.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EOne of the things that I want to raise and put on the record is the balance around online gambling harm, and specifically for M\u0101ori, for Pasifika, for ethnic people, and for our young people, particularly around the language of the tools that will provide the policies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EI did a bit of research in terms of the online gambling in New Zealand, and there were public submissions and I have a report here from June 2020 that I wanted to quote from. One of the things with the approach to harm minimisation that was raised by submitters was those experiencing problem gambling behaviours\u2014there needs to be a specific ability to make sure that the tools that this legislation brings are achieving that balance. My concern is around, specifically, young people who don\u2019t fully understand that when they have X amount of dollars only so far, what the harmful effects are for them when they make the choice to gamble online.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EThe research, in terms of what is provided here in one of the reports, is really important for people of Aotearoa to consider. When we in this House, in this Whare, are going through and making the legislation, it is important that submitters have the opportunity to express their views and provide different perspectives, and it is important that there\u2019s a strong support and focus, in the right temperament, for harm minimisation, specifically for those with problem gambling behaviours. So what the evidence tells us\u2014and what I\u2019ve been talking to just in terms of the South Auckland area, which is one of the highest areas of concentration of the class 4 gambling machines and the proliferation to specific groups in our society, is important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EI have been to race meetings. I have appreciated that whole community. There have been people in my family who have gone to those meetings but actually end up with harm minimisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EFor the record, I wanted to raise those points whilst I have the time, because the thing with online gambling harm is it\u2019s hidden; it\u2019s 24-hour access. So there is a good side to it and then there\u2019s the dark side of it. We who are making the laws in this country have to be cognisant of those features and that we achieve the right balance. We cannot ignore that\u2014not in communities like ours in M\u0101ngere and South Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EJust as I finish off, I look forward\u2014whilst we on this side of the House disagree with some of the features that were presented, we will be supporting it through to the next phase. But I really want to stress that whilst we are getting it right for the revenue, the things around online harm minimisation and consumer protection are very important issues to our community. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022 data-id=\u00227c9fc86b02db48ca9c567ed15d8bb659\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c9fc86b02db48ca9c567ed15d8bb659\u0022\u003EMILES ANDERSON (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to be standing to speak on the Racing Industry Amendment Bill in its second reading. Look, I think it\u2019s important to note that the profits from the TAB are directed back into sports and racing here in New Zealand, rather than having profits from betting going offshore; it is good to see that that money would be directed back into New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022\u003EOne of the TAB\u2019s goals is to increase participation in the racing industry, and this is an area where I have some experience. I\u2019ve had the opportunity to contribute as part of a syndicate. I think we owned an ear of a racehorse, perhaps. There were 24 of us, I think, in the syndicate. We had three horses\u2014thoroughbreds. The first horse was called Alvera, and, well, it won a few races and got a lot of seconds and a few thirds and provided us with a lot of joy. The second horse we had was Run Forrest Run, which, when it went up a grade, turned into Walk Forrest Walk, but it still gave us a lot of pleasure. The last horse we had was a horse called Lord Snow, who was no good at all, and we haven\u2019t had a horse since.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022\u003EBut I do recommend it, actually. It was a great experience and it was a great way to follow the horses, be involved in the industry, know that you were supporting a trainer, and a lot of fun. So, with that little diversion, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022075e77430ad44ed98781dfbd6eaf3128\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022075e77430ad44ed98781dfbd6eaf3128\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Glen Bennett. This is a split call\u2014it will be half of a split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f28fdf97c7204069a1a9ae24487d1911\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f28fdf97c7204069a1a9ae24487d1911\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Chair. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c55fe97cf424327a3c1bf0afdd5f023\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It will be half of a split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2fda80b402743bfa244bbc24c9c9780\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Half a minute\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a15870bccac9448dad830be735d8e720\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, five minutes\u2014half of a split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246496c1b1b9c45af95982a758e451cb0\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m a whole person but half a call. That\u2019s OK. I rise as a complete novice when it comes to the racing industry. In fact, I have a confession to make that I\u2019ve only\u2014and the Hon Keiran McAnulty is behind me\u2014ever been to one actual race meet, and that wasn\u2019t even a real one; it was a demonstration one. But I\u2019m sure I have some comeback, because it was at the Kentucky Derby. Surely that\u2019s a comeback. So I\u2019ve never actually been to a real, live, racing industry meet, but I\u2019ve been to a demonstration at the Kentucky Derby, so, surely, that gives me some credibility to speak for at least\u2014well, only five minutes, but I will try to keep my comments short and to the point. In fact, I\u2019ve got no idea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EBut I live in New Plymouth, and as you drive into the beautiful city of Ng\u0101motu, we have our wonderful race course that sits on the left-hand side, hovering above our beautiful Tasman Sea. It is a place of life and energy, it is a place that has race meets regularly, but also it is a place that\u2019s under strain and under challenge. I guess, with modern society and as the world moves rapidly, and as previous speakers have said on all sides of the House, the challenge of our online world, the challenge we have of people being able to bet online 24/7. Although I\u2019ve never participated myself, I do see the merit in a good afternoon out when you get to go to the races, you get to put on that beautiful hat and those really impractical heels and boots and whatever you wear, and go to the races on a muddy, soggy Taranaki afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EBut we need to consider the fact that with this legislation, we need to look at the harm that can be done, and so I feel confident\u2014I never thought I would stand in this House and speak to a piece of legislation that was around gambling. Being brought up in the Salvation Army, it was something that was forbidden. But I\u2019m glad, as I read through and look at our notes, look at the legislation in front of me, of the fact that something the previous Government began, and then something this Government has continued, is something that we on this side of the House, us in the Labour Party, can support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EBut, as my colleague the Hon Duncan Webb did state earlier, there have been a few things removed, and we don\u2019t feel that\u2019s OK in terms of some give and take when it comes to downsizing of pokies around the place. But, unfortunately, that has been ignored when it comes to the legislation in front of us this afternoon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EBut as someone who\u2019s been at the Kentucky Derby and seen two demonstration races, I really want to acknowledge the proud history\u2014and to you, Madam Speaker, I\u2019m sorry if I get this wrong. But my honoured and learned colleague the Hon Kieran McAnulty does assure me that we should always back a Sharrock in New Plymouth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222725cdcabbdd410a81e95d493329ab74\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I couldn\u2019t possibly comment. I\u2019m neutral while I\u2019m sitting up here, Mr Bennett.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b86a76b26084051ae1fa2a0b6033c7d\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I hope that\u2019s OK. I hope I haven\u2019t been set up. But we should always back a Sharrock in New Plymouth. For the wh\u0101nau out there, the Sharrock wh\u0101nau, who have been deeply involved in the racing industry for years, we acknowledge them and what they do, because it is around our economy. But we also need to work on how we prevent hurt and harm, and this legislation is something that goes some way to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI just want to finally comment on some of the restrictions that some of the submitters talked about during the select committee stage. There were definitely submitters that raised concerns about the prior powers held by the TAB in New Zealand to restrict bettors from placing bets for any reason and without requirement to identify why bets were refused. They also went on to comment about this bill. They were concerned that it amends to provide the specific circumstances where TAB New Zealand can refuse a bet, such as having been identified as a problem gambler, convicted of relevant offences, or engaged in threatening behaviour to TAB staff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EIt also specifies that the TAB must now inform the person seeking to make a bet as to the reason for any refusal. I think that is good because often in the past, it was something that was unknown to the better. It is good that the TAB must now inform the person seeking to make the bet and give them a reason for any refusal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EWe support this legislation. We look forward to it going to the committee stage and to ironing it out. I know there are a couple of amendments already on the Table in the committee stage that we will be looking into. Labour supports the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221c45c1ca1c3542a0ae6662ae3c9f5187\u0022\u003EEmployment Relations (Pay Deductions for Partial Strikes) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002289dbe30d0f5947a78e6f77e3ece69495\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc5c666663c14838a27951595d6eaadc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc5c666663c14838a27951595d6eaadc\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Employment Relations (Pay Deductions for Partial Strikes) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this bill is to minimise disruptive impacts on the public, who often lose out, who are caught in the middle, when these partial strikes occur. I believe changes are needed to the strike provisions to help improve collective bargaining settings. The current strike provisions do not appropriately balance the rights and consequences in situations where there is not a total withdrawal of labour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThat is why, to achieve the bill\u2019s purpose and to provide a far more effective and efficient bargaining environment where rights and consequences are better balanced, this coalition Government is restoring employers\u2019 ability to make pay deductions in response to partial strikes, a mechanism that was in place between 2015 and 2018 and worked well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EA partial strike is a type of strike that is less than a full withdrawal of labour. This bill gives employers an additional tool to respond to partial strikes. It will help incentivise parties engaged in industrial action to return sooner to the bargaining table and reach agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThe previous Government took this tool away in 2018. This means that if an employee engages in a partial strike, the employer\u2019s main options are to either take no action or accept the partial strike action and the output loss, or to suspend or lock out the employees for the duration of the strike. Doing this would obviously escalate the dispute and, when it falls to the public sector, likely increase the level of service disruption on the public. In this way, employers lack options to respond to partial strike action in a measured and proportionate way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ESince 2018, we have seen partial strikes disrupting services where patients face delays in receiving medical scans and treatments due to prolonged waiting lists, kids missing out on education, parents missing out on work, and train passengers left waiting at platforms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EI want to share some recent examples of how disruptive partial strikes can be. In August 2024, patients faced delays in getting medical scans and treatments because hospital-based MRI and nuclear medicine technologists undertook partial strike action, including limits on the number of scans completed each day. This resulted in a reduction of around 50 percent of scans, delays in early cancer treatment, longer waiting lists, increased outsourcing costs, and required additional front-line staff to cover the striking workers\u2019 radiology work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EIn 2023, students\u2019 education was impacted when teachers undertook partial strike action which included refusing to teach certain year groups on particular days, disrupting both the students\u2019 learning and their parents\u2019 ability to work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EIn 2024, the New Zealand Defence Force Public Service Association members took work-to-rule action, took coordinated breaks, and stopped working at heights or off site. In response, the Minister of Defence authorised uniformed personnel to cover civilian work in some selected areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EI fully appreciate that employees can strike in support of their collective bargaining goals, but the disruption to the public and customer services that can often result from partial strikes should not continue without consequence. Restoring an employer\u2019s ability to make pay deductions in response to partial strikes will help promote an early return to bargaining and reduce impact on third parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to take a moment to explain how the current law isn\u2019t working and how my bill will improve it. There are no provisions to allow a more nuanced or proportionate response for employers to respond to a partial strike. Employers can either take no action and accept the partial strike action and the output loss, with a big impact on them and their customers, or suspend or lock out the employees for the duration of the strike, with a disproportionate impact on the workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThis amendment will enable employers to make a specified pay deduction in response to a partial strike by either reducing employees\u2019 pay by a proportionate amount, by using a specified calculation, or by deducting a fixed percentage of 10 percent of their pay. I believe it is important that the partial strike provisions are workable for employers, especially for those with large workforces.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EEmployers would be free to decide whether to deduct pay or not. If an employer decides to do so, before any deductions are made and for greater transparency for employees the bill does require that the employer provides written notification about the deduction to employees within specific time frames. I believe it\u2019s important that employees are made aware of the financial impact of the partial strike action reasonably promptly. If an employee or a group of employees consider that the employer has incorrectly applied or calculated a specific pay deduction, the bill allows unions to challenge the application or calculation by requesting information relied on to calculate the pay deduction, and employers must respond to the written request as soon as reasonably practicable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThe Education and Workforce Committee considered a wide range of suggested amendments to the draft bill but concluded most were not needed. This is not surprising, because the legislation, like I said, was working quite well from 2015 to 2018. The committee did decide to express more precisely what different sections of the bill meant. These included, for example, ensuring that the union specifies in their strike notice whether employees will continue to do some work and clarify how to find an employee\u2019s usual hours. I support these suggestions, and I believe the new legislation will be more effective as a result. I want to thank the committee for their work and all the members of the public who took the time to submit. I understand that some of the changes that the select committee took arose from good suggestions from those submitters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EI understand, also, that some submitters argue that the legislation would somehow undermine workers\u2019 right to strike, weakening their collective bargaining power, or entrench poor working conditions. I don\u2019t agree with this. Employees will have the same rights to strike as they do now; there will just be consequences for doing so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EMy intention with this bill is very clear. Disruption to public and customer services that has resulted from partial strikes should not continue without consequences. I want to provide for a far more effective and efficient bargaining environment where the rights and consequences are more balanced. Restoring employers\u2019 ability to make pay deductions for partial strikes will help minimise potential disruption to services and incentivise both parties to return to the bargaining table and reach agreement in good faith sooner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThis change to collective bargaining is consistent with the Government\u2019s Going for Growth direction to reduce the compliance burden for employers and ensure settings are proportionate. I\u2019m confident that this bill will promote more harmonious industrial relations across New Zealand. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022412b53ab871341aaa9dd5e0dddd8d6d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022412b53ab871341aaa9dd5e0dddd8d6d2\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7a33ce4a06749e18653712e4b89c68d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7a33ce4a06749e18653712e4b89c68d\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think this is, once again, a piece of legislation that shows that this Government has no regard for workers in this country whatsoever. I\u2019m surprised that the second reading is being held at a time when we have had such an attack over the last couple of weeks on our workers, particularly our women workers in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EI sat on the Education and Workforce Committee and heard the submissions. I just want to put on record here how many submitters there were. The committee received 620 written submissions on the bill. In support of the bill, out of those 620, there were four\u2014I\u2019ll just say that again: four in support of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a22d74f50dfa422d86d73a125110f1f8\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Four, is that all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c5d69de0530494a82aa6c5eaf5ddbf3\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: Four, that\u2019s all. Opposing the bill were 606; unclear on whether supporting or opposed was three; and overall view was unclear as submissions focused on potential changes to bill was seven.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EThe\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229145a48480834f3a9f2735ea05321503\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: The party of victim-waiving narcissists disagrees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275de56768f3940d082c632943b467828\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, did I just hear somebody over there talking about victim waiving? Yeah, it just shows what they think about workers in this country\u2014absolutely shows what they think about workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ef2f49c48264c129a0d71cccfbeb952\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: What we think about you\u2014what we think about you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a347f548270a4097bf131e486351aff1\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, Simon Court, that\u2019s right\u2014just for the record, so that we can get that on there too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EThe rationale provided for opposing this bill\u2014and there were six main reasons why people actually oppose the bill, and I want to go through those reasons that people gave during the select committee process. The first was that the changes will diminish workers\u2019 rights to strike, or their rights generally. I heard that the Minister said that that is not the case. That is not what the people who were submitting on this bill were telling us throughout the select committee process. They\u2019ve been in these positions before. They know between 2015 and 2018, they\u2019ve had experience of this. They know that these changes will diminish their rights or their right to strike, and their rights in general.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EThe most common concern raised by submitters was the concern that the ability for employers to make pay deductions in response to partial strikes will have a negative impact on the right of workers to strike. That was from just over half of those submissions. They opposed this part of the bill for that reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EThe one that I really want to talk about, though, is actually the second main reason that was given as to why people were absolutely opposed to this particular bill. That was that deductions in pay in response to partial strikes are unfair, particularly when they are in response to work-to-rule industrial action. So what this could mean, Madam Speaker, is that you or an employer could employ somebody with the conditions of employment laid out so they have their hours of work laid out and they have their tasks laid out in their employment agreement, and then they, out of the goodness of their heart, volunteer to do extra work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s take the case of a teacher, as an example. In their employment agreement\u2014the collective employment agreement which informs the individual employment agreements as well\u2014hours of work are laid out in that collective agreement. Now, not many people know that but it is laid out in the collective agreement. Many of our teachers go over and above that. We know that. We know that sports teams happen, for example, when teachers spend their after-school time or before-school time coaching sports teams and, often, are really busy either in evening sports events or weekend sports events; arts and culture; rock quest\u2014we had that here in the Legislative Chamber recently. Many teachers go over and above what they are employed to do, to be able to enable those young people to share their creativity with the world. They will go on trips and camps with them. But if they\u2019re in the middle of industrial bargaining and negotiations and they decide to do a work-to-rule, this is what this bill enables to happen: they decide that they\u2019re only going to work the hours that they are employed for, and there can be a pay deduction. Now, those extra hours are not in the collective agreement; they are doing that out of the goodness of their heart. But this bill will enable the employer\u2014who will be, usually, the Ministry of Education in this point, because they are responsible for paying the teachers\u2014to make a partial deduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003ENow, I thought, well, that can\u2019t be true. I thought that maybe\u2014because you\u2019re employed for what you\u2019re employed for, and I thought that can\u2019t be true. So I specifically asked this question of officials at the Education and Workforce Committee, and the select committee said, \u201CWell, yes, it does.\u201D It can do that, and it is case by case, but it absolutely enables that clause, that work-to-rule to overstep the employment agreement and for there to be pay deductions that can be made. It says that in the departmental report, in case anyone wants to check that out and look that up. I have to say, it\u2019s a very good departmental report that has been made on this, because it lays it out very, very clearly, but also all of those objections that were made to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EAnother theme that came through was that people were opposed because the changes will further exacerbate the current imbalance of power between employees and employers, and weaken employees\u2019 positions in the collective bargaining. Now, something that has been noted in this House many, many, many times is the inherent imbalance in the bargaining process. We know that employers have the power of balance\u2014the balance of power, I should say. We absolutely know that that is the case; it is well documented. But, unfortunately, the whole idea\u2014and I\u2019ve got colleagues in the House that can say this really eloquently because they\u2019ve worked in this area for so long; that\u2019s you, Helen White. They know that in any of these negotiations, the employee has only got that right to be able to strike in the industrial bargaining process to restore balance, and this is being minimised and taken away from them in this piece of legislation. That was something that people talked about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EThey talked about the changes being inconsistent with New Zealand\u2019s domestic and international obligations. That is a real concern, particularly in the international\u2014well, mostly in the international obligations part of this. You know, we can look at the New Zealand part, and I encourage people to go and read the departmental report, but the international obligations\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022501e2a43ca4f481eb8c43724e5ce7397\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: The ILO doesn\u2019t care about people who don\u2019t get their scans though, do they?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c6d0a8c34d54605b4ad4c8e8aba6ee9\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and I hear the member over there once again talking about the International Labour Organization. I\u2019m talking about trade agreements, actually, Simon Court. So you should actually, Simon Court, do your homework on this and not just make your ideological judgments around this, because I think that that\u2019s a very ill-informed interjection that you have made from over on that side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EThe last area that people talked about was that the changes will increase strike action and incentivise workers to fully withdraw their labour. This is something that is a reality when disincentives like this come in, to those partial strikes. The Minister talked about a specific example where a partial strike had happened. I\u2019ve already had people say, \u201CWell, if that\u2019s going to happen and pay is going to be taken, we may as well go off full time.\u201D That\u2019s what this is trying to stop\u2014to still give people that right to strike, but to ensure that productivity is maintained and not completely withdrawn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EI want to finish up by just quoting a press release that came out from Rachel Mackintosh, who at the time was the acting secretary of the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions. She says, \u201CIndustrial action is supposed to help level the power imbalances in employment relationships that favour employers. This change undermines that and tips the balance of power even further in favour of employers by introducing a punitive response to legitimate industrial action. \u2026 The only winners of this Bill will be the lawyers. This legislation will lead to increased litigation, and prolonging bargaining and industrial action at the expense of both workers and employers.\u201D Labour will not be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002274efb9a9502a461e8d8987d7f9b2767f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274efb9a9502a461e8d8987d7f9b2767f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This debate is interrupted and is set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 20 May 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505157e2196375e4043a5bd95de59ecd2d970000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 5.55 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"