"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002264dc776dbc794a7bbb74a0d23901c63e\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 22 MAY 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225ccb05ab55bd4262859de7da308e0071\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 22 MAY 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002257e770cee7854fe199500a27e4bf0803\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225b6ccc195a73443ca0ab2cb9f7c45dce\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00225c87d78215fa4990b67e81358f3619f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c87d78215fa4990b67e81358f3619f2\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Assistant Speaker):\u003C/span\u003E E te Atua kaha rawa, ka tuku whakamoemiti atu m\u0101tou, m\u014D ng\u0101 karakia kua waihotia mai ki runga i a m\u0101tou. Ka waiho i \u014D m\u0101tou p\u0101nga whaiaro katoa ki te taha. Ka mihi m\u0101tou ki te K\u012Bngi, me te inoi atu m\u014D te \u0101rahitanga i roto i \u014D m\u0101tou whakaaroarohanga, kia m\u014Dhio ai, kia whakaiti ai t\u0101 m\u0101tou whakahaere i ng\u0101 take o te Whare nei, m\u014D te oranga, te maung\u0101rongo, me te aroha o Aotearoa. \u0100mene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E[Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom and humility, for the welfare, peace, and compassion of New Zealand. Amen.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b10dd2248023476991125e11bbc4529c\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022716418efa0b8480692ae141c7b53ef50\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002237a189bc11d14387a9aa414b22fc6ff2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237a189bc11d14387a9aa414b22fc6ff2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A petition has been delivered for presentation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00221a4197b20c23451fa8c2a6a9950f21fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a4197b20c23451fa8c2a6a9950f21fe\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Petition of Shane Clarke Witehira requesting the House urge the Government to decline Fast Track Application 229 to build a 200-250 berth marina at Waipiro Bay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022d20c14c15e4f4250bf45cc084a44539c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d20c14c15e4f4250bf45cc084a44539c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That petition stands referred to the Petitions Committee. No papers have been delivered. A select committee report has been delivered for presentation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00226532613904f84d60866f5e6ab5815200\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226532613904f84d60866f5e6ab5815200\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Report of the Education and Workforce Committee on the briefing on the 2023/24 performance, current operations, and strategic intentions of Immigration New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00226d1d811bcff142bf9c5a083f33c24f7b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d1d811bcff142bf9c5a083f33c24f7b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The bill is set down for consideration. The Clerk has been informed of the introduction of four bills. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00220028d9d8a43744d48bd779192c1ac48e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220028d9d8a43744d48bd779192c1ac48e\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2024/25 Supplementary Estimates) Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EMilitary Decorations and Distinctive Badges (Modernisation) Amendment Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EFinancial Markets (International Money Transfers) Amendment Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ELocal Government (Port Companies Accountability) Amendment Bill, introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00226b992703fe214a32a02f2b4b39a0bcdd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b992703fe214a32a02f2b4b39a0bcdd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those bills are set down for first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002226d50b767d5f49bea2d0371531130f60\u0022\u003ESupplementary Estimates Documents\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bd0c4d60a3ea4b9389d200c034a461ae\u0022\u003ESupplementary Estimates Documents\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022085a2f9bcc364c8eb6805f3accbba6ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022085a2f9bcc364c8eb6805f3accbba6ac\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I present the Supplementary Estimates of Appropriations for the Government of New Zealand for the Year Ending 30 June 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00226970d745314f435dbb77b3ef5675ef38\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226970d745314f435dbb77b3ef5675ef38\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That paper is published under the authority of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002289e60f4e0e4b429ca3c0cb5b3fd009c4\u0022\u003EBudget Documents\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223caac584a8a34d7b815ff38396a4ed55\u0022\u003EBudget Documents\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002248dff3fc5dbb478e86d08d78f7c56a4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248dff3fc5dbb478e86d08d78f7c56a4f\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I present the 2025 Budget speech, the Budget at a Glance 2025, the Fiscal Strategy Report 2025, the Child Poverty Report 2025, the Summary of Initiatives 2025, the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update 2025, and the Estimates of Appropriations for the Government of New Zealand for the Year Ending 30 June 2026.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022717b7937e6564199a63500ec2c674bb8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022717b7937e6564199a63500ec2c674bb8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those papers are published under the authority of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b873c92065f34ebea4ff02aba4a8271c\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2025/26 Estimates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022656f2b6037e54c5a896a0bb2a822bd9e\u0022\u003EIntroduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca5edc5533cc45af9a4913b0e2b595cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca5edc5533cc45af9a4913b0e2b595cf\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Appropriation (2025/26 Estimates) Bill, introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00226fd8f0ac159c4678b093564133f78218\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226fd8f0ac159c4678b093564133f78218\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Appropriation (2025/26 Estimates) Bill is set down for first reading immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a5646be88fbf474986760c9c2b0903ac\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f601a8f637ce4cfe86535bcb7dbad652\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f601a8f637ce4cfe86535bcb7dbad652\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Appropriation (2025/26 Estimates) Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022b39ef6e44c604ddaa33d4a6a59633885\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b39ef6e44c604ddaa33d4a6a59633885\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002201956e09941945e99e92a46673427de2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Appropriation (2025/26 Estimates) Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000036\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225ca326055b1a4521b4b0bcd17f1dea57\u0022\u003EBudget Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dfd662f4c06045d9b2e0870f8fb89633\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022745184ee48764f078dd75db86e8ebdb8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022745184ee48764f078dd75db86e8ebdb8\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Appropriation (2025/26 Estimates) Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EAhumairangi, Tangi-te-keo, t\u016B te ao, t\u016B te p\u014D. Te Whanganui-a-Tara, te karu waitai, piata mai n\u0101. Kei \u014Dku nui kei \u014Dku rahi, n\u014Dku te h\u014Dnore ki te whakam\u0101unu i te Tahua m\u014D te tau nei. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E[Ahumairangi Hill, Mount Victoria, stand strong by day and by night. The Wellington Harbour, the marine oculus, glitter before us. To the great and noble personages, it is my honour to launch the Budget for this year. Greetings to you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EAs I said in te reo M\u0101ori, it is an honour to announce this year\u2019s Budget. This is a responsible Budget to secure New Zealand\u2019s future. It supports the economic recovery now under way. It also takes a longer-term view, with initiatives to boost future investment, savings, and growth. It continues this Government\u2019s investment in health, in education, and in law and order. And, in a challenging global environment, it provides funding to boost New Zealand\u2019s defence capability. It does all of this with an expenditure track that reduces Government spending as a share of the economy, returns the Government\u2019s books to balance, and bends the debt curve down\u2014from going up to going down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe economic outlook presented alongside this Budget is a bright one. After a tough few years, growth, jobs, and wages are set to rise. The Government is not promising that today\u2019s Budget will solve all New Zealanders\u2019 problems. But we do promise that the decisions we are taking now will set our country up for a better future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe creation and delivery of an annual Budget is at the heart of strong and stable Government. This Budget is a team effort. I want to acknowledge and thank the Associate Ministers of Finance, David Seymour, Shane Jones, and Chris Bishop, for their ideas and advice. They were heavily involved in putting this Budget together, as was the Prime Minister, whose leadership and wise counsel was invaluable. Thank you, Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EIn recent years, New Zealanders have battled through an extended period of high inflation, high interest rates, and low growth. We know that times remain tough for many Kiwis. The good news today is that, with strong economic and fiscal management, a recovery is under way. The recovery is being supported by lower interest rates and strong export performance, and, over the next few years, the Government\u2019s new Investment Boost policy\u2014which I will come to shortly\u2014will have a positive impact on growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ERecent tariff announcements have created uncertainty and volatility around the world. For a small trading nation like New Zealand, the global situation is concerning. It doesn\u2019t threaten the recovery, but it does threaten the pace of the recovery. The Treasury has pegged its forecasts back, and downside risks remain. Despite this, Budget forecasts show economic growth picking up to healthy levels once again. Real GDP growth is expected to accelerate to 2.9 percent in the next fiscal year, and to 3 percent in the year after.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EGrowth matters. It means more jobs, higher incomes, and opportunities for families to get ahead. Over the forecast period, wages are expected to grow faster than inflation, and, at the end of that period, there are expected to be 240,000 more people in jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s books have taken a hammering over the past six years or so. Spending has risen sharply. So has Government debt. The Budget deficit left by the previous Government is structural\u2014it is not simply due to the state of the economy. In other words, the last Government was living beyond its means, loading up the credit card to pay for things New Zealand couldn\u2019t afford. This did real damage to our economy, as a massive spike in the cost of living led to high interest rates and low growth. This Government is taking responsibility for cleaning up the mess. Under our fiscal management, Government debt will stabilise, then start to come down. And our control of spending creates room for monetary policy to respond with lower interest rates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThere is no doubt that fiscal consolidation is challenging. Some would do it with higher taxes. Well, that would burden New Zealand workers and businesses, and scare away talent and investment. It would put our economic recovery at risk. This Government is taking a different approach. We are getting the books in balance by controlling growth in Government spending. The operating allowance for Budget 2025 is $1.3 billion on average per annum. This is the lowest allowance in a decade, significantly down from the $2.4 billion allowance signalled in the Budget Policy Statement in December. That reduction of $1.1 billion goes straight to the bottom line. The Government\u2019s headline operating balance indicator, OBEGALx\u2014the operating balance before gains and losses, excluding ACC revenue and expenses\u2014is $1.1 billion better each year, on average, than it otherwise would have been. In addition, the Treasury estimates that the tighter Budget package will see interest rates being 30 basis points lower than they otherwise would have been by the end of the forecast period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EImportantly, that $1.3 billion allowance is a net figure. On the one hand, it encompasses $5 billion a year of new spending and $1.7 billion a year for tax reductions through Investment Boost; on the other hand, it contains savings of $5.3 billion a year. These savings are the result of ongoing efforts by multiple Ministers, and I want to acknowledge you all today. We take seriously our roles as custodians of taxpayer money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EA significant portion of those savings come from changes to the pay equity regime. The changes were made to ensure future settlements stick to correcting pay discrepancies that arise from sex-based discrimination, and not for other reasons. Making those changes means the Government can re-purpose $2.7 billion a year, on average, towards Budget priorities like health, education, and law and order. That $2.7 billion had been put aside in contingencies for what, under the previous regime, were expected to be very wide-ranging pay equity claims, increasingly divorced from the sex-based discrimination that pay equity is supposed to be about. A one-off $1.8 billion has also been repurposed from previous contingencies and put towards capital expenditure in this Budget, supporting investments in new hospitals, schools, and other infrastructure. I can assure members that adequate funding remains in contingency to meet potential costs of future public sector pay equity settlements under our new regime. And the Government also anticipates there will be pay rises in female-dominated public sector workforces, achieved through normal collective bargaining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe Government has also been able to find net savings by increasing funding for Inland Revenue\u2019s compliance activities. Funding of $35 million a year is expected to result in $280 million of extra tax revenue. That\u2019s an eight-to-one return on investment. This was an initiative proposed last Budget by New Zealand First and expanded in Budget 2025. Further savings have been made by closing a number of tagged contingencies and from reviewing the value for money of grants and fund across Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThis is not austerity. In fact, it is what you do to avoid austerity, because getting the books in shape ensures New Zealand has financial security and choices into the future, and, as I am about to set out, savings in this Budget have allowed us to make much-needed investments in health, in education, in law and order, and in rebuilding our defence force. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EBudget forecasts show that core Crown expenses are expected to remain steady, then decline as a percentage of GDP, reaching 30.9 percent by 2028-29. The OBEGALx deficit is expected to widen in the near-term, and then gradually improve after next year, returning to a surplus of $200 million before the end of the forecast period. At that point, members, the structural deficit the previous Government left us will have been eliminated. Net core Crown debt is expected to peak at 46 percent of GDP, slightly lower than forecast at the half-year update, before then beginning to decline. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EAs these forecasts show, the Government is taking a deliberate, medium-term approach to fiscal consolidation. I am aware that there are alternative approaches. Some say that we should keep borrowing for ever, whack it on the credit card, and hope for the best. That would be the height of irresponsibility. It would put the financial security of New Zealand at risk, and we owe better to our kids. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ETo my own kids, sitting in the gallery today, I want to say that I know Mum\u2019s been busy lately\u2014and I\u2019m sorry I missed your show last night, Hatta\u2014but your future and the future of the next generation of New Zealanders has been very much on my mind as we\u2019ve put this Budget together. This Budget will be good for you and for all our kids. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ENew Zealand\u2019s productivity challenges are well understood. Study after study has identified a low level of capital investment per worker, compared to other countries. To raise productivity, to lift incomes, and to drive long-term economic growth, New Zealand needs our businesses, big and small, to invest\u2014to invest in machinery, tools, equipment, technology, vehicles, industrial buildings, and other capital assets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EInvestment Boost is a new tax incentive that will increase capital investment in New Zealand, and Investment Boost allows a business to immediately deduct 20 percent of the cost of a new asset from its taxable income, on top of depreciation. This means a much lower tax bill in the year of purchase, and the remaining book value is depreciated at normal rates. Since a dollar now is more valuable than a future, the cash flow from investments is more attractive and the after-tax returns are better. More investment opportunities will stack up financially, so more will be made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EOver 20 years, members, Investment Boost is expected to lift New Zealand\u2019s capital stock by 1.6 percent, our GDP by 1 percent, and wages by 1.5 percent. The advice we have received is that the benefits will be widespread among New Zealanders, with workers set to benefit the most in the form of more employment and bigger wage increases. These are, of course, orders of magnitude, but officials estimate that roughly half the impacts happen in the first five years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EInvestment Boost starts today, and it applies to new assets purchased in New Zealand, as well as assets imported from overseas. It includes commercial buildings, but it excludes land, residential buildings, and assets already in use in New Zealand. There\u2019s no cap on the value of new investments, and all businesses, regardless of size, are eligible. It is estimated to cost an average of $1.7 billion per year in reduced revenue across the forecast period. So to manufacturers, farmers, tradies, and other Kiwi businesses, my message to you is this: our Government is helping you invest for your future and our country\u2019s future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EContinuing the growth theme, Budget 2025 funds a number of initiatives that contribute to the Government\u2019s Going for Growth agenda. As I announced earlier this week, the Government has set aside $65 million to encourage foreign investment in New Zealand infrastructure by increasing the amount of tax-deductible debt foreign investors can use to fund it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe Budget also supports the science and innovation reforms announced earlier this year. These include the move to transform Crown research institutes into three new public research organisations, establishing a dedicated gene technology regulator, and creating a new agency, Invest New Zealand, as the Government\u2019s one-stop shop for foreign direct investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EOther economic growth initiatives in this Budget include funding for screen production rebates and additional funding for the Elevate NZ Venture Fund to invest in the technology start-up sector. Funding has also been set aside in contingency for potential Crown co-investment in new gasfields to ensure future supply. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWhile KiwiSaver has helped a lot of New Zealanders to save, many people\u2019s balances are modest. There would be few people, I think, who would reach 65, look at their KiwiSaver balance, and think, \u201CI wish I\u2019d saved less.\u201D The same goes for those looking to buy their first home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EBudget 2025 makes changes to encourage Kiwis to save more while also making the scheme more fiscally sustainable. From 1 April 2026, the default rate of employee and employer contributions, which is currently 3 percent, will go to 3.5 percent, and from 1 April 2028, it will go to 4 percent. Phasing this in over a three-year period helps workers and employers plan ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe Government recognises that, over time, employer contributions may, effectively, form part of the wage negotiation process. Employees will be able to opt down to the current 3 percent rate and still be matched by their employer at that lower rate. Their contributions will be reset to the default rate after 12 months, but they can opt down again if they wish. These changes\u2014moving to a default contribution rate of 4 percent, but retaining a 3 percent option\u2014were recommended last year by the Retirement Commissioner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EFrom 1 April 2026, the Government will extend employer matching to 16- and 17-year-olds, and from 1 July 2025, it will make them eligible for the Government contribution. This will encourage more young people to adopt a savings habit and help them build a deposit for their first home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EMembers may recall that the original KiwiSaver design included layers of expensive Government subsidies that proved unaffordable. Most have since been wound back\u2014and the scheme has continued to flourish\u2014apart from the Government contribution, which is expected to cost an average of $1.2 billion a year over the forecast period. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI\u2019m advised that the Government contribution is unlikely to be increasing the amount New Zealanders save. To ensure that KiwiSaver\u2019s cost to the taxpayer remains sustainable, this annual Government contribution will be halved to 25c for each dollar a member contributes each year, up to a maximum Government contribution of just over $260 a year. Members with an income of more than $180,000 will no longer receive any Government contribution. These changes to the Government contribution will apply from 1 July 2025. They do not affect the current year\u2019s Government contribution, which will be paid out in July and August this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EPutting all these changes together, the KiwiSaver balances of employees contributing at the new default rate will grow faster than they do now, providing a larger balance at age 65 or when people come to buy their first home\u2014building the financial security of New Zealanders. Savings from changes to the Government contribution which total $2.5 billion over the forecast period are being used to fund other Budget priorities including health, education, and law and order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EA number of Budget 2025 initiatives deliver targeted cost of living support. These include fiscally neutral changes to Working for Families to better target it at low and middle income families who need the support most. From 1 April next year, the Government will raise the family income threshold for Working for Families to $44,900 a year and increase the abatement rate slightly to 27.5 percent. As a result, families with incomes just above the new threshold will get an extra $23 per fortnight from Working for Families, with this additional support reducing gradually as family income rises. In all, an estimated 142,000 families with children will receive $14 more per fortnight on average, and the vast majority of these families will have incomes below $100,000 a year. This will incentivise working families and give them support when they need it most.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe cost of this extra support is met from better targeting the first year of the Best Start tax credit. From 1 April next year, the first year of Best Start will no longer be universal but will be income-tested the same way the second and third years already are, with payments ending completely when a family earns just over $97,000 a year. As a consequence, there will be families that receive less financial support than they otherwise would have, but the vast majority of those families will have incomes over $100,000 a year. The change to Best Start only applies for births on or after 1 April 2026, so no family will see an actual reduction in their payments. As a mother of four, I can point out that we are giving prospective parents more than nine months\u2019 advance notice of this change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EAnother cost of living initiative relates to prescriptions. Getting a prescription for only three months at a time can be frustrating, particularly for people on stable, long-term medications like asthma inhalers, insulin for diabetes, and blood pressure tablets. Getting a repeat prescription costs money and adds paperwork for doctors. Now, from the first quarter of 2026, New Zealanders will be able to get 12-month prescriptions for their medicines. That will save Kiwi medical costs, and it will give health professionals more time to deal with other patients.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe Budget also helps up to 66,000 additional SuperGold card holders pay their rates. From 1 July this year, the Rates Rebate Scheme will become more generous for SuperGold card holders and their households, by increasing the income abatement threshold to $45,000 a year and increasing the maximum rebate to $805. These changes originated from the National and New Zealand First coalition agreement and will come as welcome relief to many ratepayers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe biggest part of the Budget is investment in the front-line services Kiwis rely on, and I want to take members through some key areas of new funding. First, let me clarify that when I talk about additional funding, I am referring\u2014unless stated otherwise\u2014to operating funding over the next four years plus capital funding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI will start with health. Budget 2025 makes a capital investment of more than $1 billion in hospitals and health facilities. Funding has been allocated for a major redevelopment of Nelson Hospital, including a new 128-bed in-patient building. In what is great news for the people of Nelson, the new in-patient building is expected to be built by 2029\u2014two years earlier than originally planned. Funding is also being allocated for a new emergency department at Wellington Regional Hospital. In addition, Wellington Hospital will get new specialist treatment spaces, an expansion of the intensive care unit, and a refurbishment of the old children\u2019s hospital. The Budget also funds infrastructure projects at Auckland City Hospital, Greenlane Clinical Centre, and Palmerston North Hospital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EIn terms of operating funding, the Budget confirms a funding increase of $5.5 billion for hospital and specialist services, primary care, community health, and public health. This will support Health New Zealand to make progress on the Government\u2019s targets for more timely care, including shorter waiting times for hip replacements, cataract surgery, and other elective procedures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EBudget 2025 confirms funding of more than $1 billion to buy and deliver additional cancer treatments and other medicines that Pharmac has announced over the past 12 months, and the Budget provides new funding of $447 million to support increased access to primary care, including urgent care and after-hours services across New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI now turn to something close to my heart. Giving children a chance to reach their potential through the power of a good education is one of the greatest gifts that a Government can bestow. To my mind, improving the results we get from our education system is the single most important thing we can do to improve the future productivity of New Zealand. New funding in Budget 2025, of $646 million operating and $101 million capital, is the largest boost to learning support in a generation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EImprovements to our learning support system are overdue. It is a system that has become characterised by inequity, underfunding, long wait-lists, and frustrations from schools and parents. Children who need additional support have been missing out, and that is of great cost to them and to their families, and it is of great cost to our country. Because children with additional needs have enormous potential and, with this support, more of them will have the chance to realise it. It will also benefit their classmates, whose teachers will now be better supported to meet diverse learning needs. The extra Budget funding will provide more teacher-aide hours, more specialist support, more learning support coordinators, an expansion of early intervention services, and new learning support classrooms. This investment will change lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThere is also new funding in the Budget for schools\u2019 operational grants, early childhood education, and tertiary education subsidies, and there is funding to increase the independent school subsidy to address price and volume pressures over time, delivering on the ACT and National coalition commitment to review the funding formula.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EExtra maths help will be available for students who need it, with $100 million of new funding for early intervention and support, and there is a $140 million package of services to lift school attendance, and this delivers on another ACT and National coalition commitment. Finally, more than $700 million has been set aside to deliver new schools, purchase sites, expand some schools, and build new classrooms. The Hon Erica Stanford\u2014we did it. It\u2019s a great Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ENew funding in Budget 2025 continues the Government\u2019s drive to restore law and order. The Budget invests $480 million more to support police on the front line, to crack down on crime and keep our communities safe. We will not be defunding the Police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWe are also keeping communities safe through stronger sentencing laws that mean less violent crime, fewer victims, and more offenders in prison. The Budget invests $472 million to ensure Corrections can manage this increase in the prison population, including 580 new front-line staff. This reflects an ACT and National coalition commitment to increase funding to ensure sufficient prison capacity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe Government is also redeveloping Christchurch Men\u2019s Prison, with the project set to be designed, built, financed, and maintained for 25 years under a public-private partnership. And I know the member for Selwyn is pleased. Court case backlogs will be reduced through $246 million of new funding, which will improve timeliness and access to justice. Customs is also receiving additional funding to strengthen our border, prevent drug smuggling, and fight organised crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to mention M\u0101ori and Pasifika wardens and the M\u0101ori Women\u2019s Welfare League. They are the friendly faces when things get tough and they are receiving funding in this Budget thanks to New Zealand First. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EFor too long, New Zealand\u2019s Defence Force has been allowed to gradually deteriorate through loss of personnel and a failure to upgrade equipment. Budget 2025 marks a change in that course. A major uplift in defence spending will ensure New Zealand pulls its weight in an increasingly volatile world. It does this by investing in the men and women of our military and giving them the modern tools they need to do their jobs. This uplift cannot be funded in one Budget alone. But we have made a meaningful start by funding priority projects including new maritime helicopters. The Budget also invests $660 million to improve core Defence Force capabilities across air, sea, land, and cyberspace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EIn terms of foreign affairs, the Budget addresses a very steep fiscal cliff in overseas development assistance, specifically for climate finance, that was unhelpfully left by the previous Government. The Budget addresses this, at least in part, through ongoing, baselined funding of $100 million a year, focused on the Pacific. Members will perhaps not be surprised to learn that the Minister of Foreign Affairs has made a very strong case for more funding, and this will be looked at in future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe Budget also includes new funding of $84 million over four years to enhance New Zealand\u2019s relationships with Asian countries, address trade barriers, and support the Government\u2019s goal to double exports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EBudget 2025 sets aside $230 million for a new Social Investment Fund, of which $190 million is to purchase better outcomes for New Zealanders in need. Social investment is about the Government investing earlier, guided by data and evidence, and with much more transparent measurement of the impact that interventions are having in people\u2019s lives. It is not enough to simply service misery; we have to actually make people\u2019s lives better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EOver the next year, the fund will invest in at least 20 initiatives, adopting a very different contracting approach than is traditionally used by Government agencies, and an approach we\u2019re ambitious to grow much, much further. I know that the Minister for Social Investment is excited by the prospects for this approach to change vulnerable people\u2019s lives for the better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EAs announced a fortnight ago, the Budget allocates $774 million to fund initiatives in response to the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care. The Government has committed this funding, across a number of different Votes, to improve redress for survivors and to strengthen the care system to prevent, identify, and respond to abuse in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EBudget 2025 allocates $6.8 billion of capital expenditure. This is partially offset by savings, leaving a net capital allowance in the Budget of $4 billion, slightly higher than the $3.625 billion capital allowance signalled in the Budget Policy Statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI have already mentioned most areas of new capital expenditure in the Budget\u2014hospitals, schools, the Defence Force, prisons, and the Elevate fund. Budget 2025 also provides new funding to improve New Zealand\u2019s rail network. Train commuters and businesses moving goods around the country will see more reliable rail services thanks to the Government\u2019s investment of $605 million for rail upgrades and renewals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EIn addition, the Budget provides funding to deliver additional social homes and affordable rentals, including for wh\u0101nau M\u0101ori. These Budget 2025 capital initiatives add to existing investments already under way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EGovernment infrastructure investment over the forecast period now totals around $61.8 billion. About a third of this investment in infrastructure will be spent on the transport sector and another third is going to education and health. In addition, $3.5 billion has been set aside in each of the next three Budgets for new capital investments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EPutting this Budget together wasn\u2019t easy. It involved careful choices and restraint from all Ministers. That is as it should be, and as New Zealanders have the right to expect, because Budget 2025 had to strike a careful balance. It invests in public services that New Zealanders need now, while driving the long-term reforms to lift investment and productivity in the longer term. It delivers new hospitals, new schools and a transformational boost to learning support. It makes changes to encourage Kiwis to save more. It provides cost of living relief targeted at low and middle income families. It takes the first step in a major uplift in defence spending. It secures the economic recovery that Kiwis are depending on. And, as all New Zealanders should expect, it does this while setting a course to a balanced Budget and an end to rising debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EOur approach means that New Zealanders can look forward with confidence. Every Kiwi can know that this is a Government that has their back. I commend this Budget to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002253a653c7459945cfa1fb31c856d65993\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253a653c7459945cfa1fb31c856d65993\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the Leader of the Opposition, I\u2019ll just call the House\u2019s attention to Speakers\u2019 ruling 141/3, particularly the second half of that, for all members of the House. The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a64eb2313e7d4f858c47bd9aaa664881\u0022\u003EBudget Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b9a5c5829c30453a90f0450cac5f8e16\u0022\u003EBudget Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8c4b4e11a504293b928c536ce2dd84e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8c4b4e11a504293b928c536ce2dd84e\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I move, That all of the words after \u201CThat\u201D be replaced with \u201Cthis House has no confidence in the Government because it has chosen to pay for its Budget by cutting the wages of future working women.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u2019 pre-Budget spin got it half right\u2014this was a scramble without the lollies. A Budget that has scrambled the Government\u2019s finances, tried a whole lot of smoke and mirrors to hide where their cuts are being made, to try and confuse New Zealanders with the idea that they\u2019ll be better off when, for a lot of Kiwi families, this Budget is nothing but bad news.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThis is the Budget that will be remembered as the Budget that left women out. This is the Budget that said to working Kiwi women, they are worth less\u2014in fact, nearly $3 billion a year less\u2014a Budget that says that women are worth less than tax breaks for landlords, a Budget that says women are worth less than tax breaks for tobacco companies, a Budget that says women are worth less than tax breaks for multinational corporations like Google and Facebook, a Budget that says women are worth less than subsidies for the oil and gas industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s one thing this Government have shown they\u2019re very adept at mining, and that is the pits of division. It says everything about this Government\u2019s twisted priorities that they\u2019re saying to working Kiwi women that they are worth less than men doing work of comparable value. Midwives, Plunket nurses, those who help new mums and babies are worth less to this Government. The care workers who look after our elderly are worth less to this Government. The hospice nurses who support New Zealanders in their final days are worth less to this Government. The teacher-aides who support some of our most vulnerable children are worth less to this Government. The librarians, the technicians, the support workers who keep our front-line services operating are worth less to this Government. All of them are being told loud and clear that they have to settle for less pay than men so that this Government can balance its books after a series of bad choices they have made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ENever in the history of this country have women been told: \u201CWork harder and get less.\u201D, and yet that is what this Government are saying. The country that was first to allow women the vote has nothing to be proud of today when it comes to advancing the cause of women. This is a Budget that exposes how Nicola Willis and Christopher Luxon see hard-working and often low-paid Kiwi women and where the savings from devaluing women\u2019s work are being celebrated by people like David Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222556a311f059481b8913004ad940cdc9\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: How\u2019s about Marsden Point?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a4fa169add6458580f2f80538505d18\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: And Winston Peters, who has a lot to say at the moment, paragon of virtue, he\u2019s going to uphold the standards of Parliament, must have had his head in his hands when Nicola Willis described this as the \u201Cno BS Budget\u201D. What he didn\u2019t realise is that BS wasn\u2019t actually about a swear word, because when she was talking about \u201Cno BS\u201D, what she was being clear is the Budget had no bold solutions. The Budget had no bread and shelter for vulnerable New Zealanders. The Budget had no back-paid settlements for women who have been fighting to have fair pay for far too long, and it had no better society. What it does have is big subsidies\u2014big subsidies for oil and gas, among others. This Government has no vision, beyond enriching those who are already doing well, whilst dividing working New Zealanders in an attempt to distract them from the damage that they\u2019re doing to their lives and livelihoods.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThis Budget isn\u2019t only about cuts to women\u2019s pay, though, because, for the second year in a row, that much promised cost of living relief the National Party banged on about during the election campaign is proving to be elusive. Remember the $250 a fortnight that families with children were promised by Christopher Luxon during the election campaign? The Government cannot find one single family\u2014not one single family\u2014that\u2019s got the $250 a fortnight that they were promised repeatedly by the Government during the election campaign. The party that pumps itself up on its own economic grandiose has exponentially failed on its flagship promise of cost of living relief for Kiwi families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EBut this gets worse, because Nicola Willis talked about the changes to Working for Families in her Budget speech. What she didn\u2019t mention is that for 61,000 New Zealand families, their Working for Families is being cut. They\u2019re going to be $43 a fortnight, on average, worse off because of this Government. I didn\u2019t hear anyone on the election campaign trail when speaking for National say that tens of thousands of families were going to be made financially worse off by this Government, and yet that is exactly what today does. For those who are supposedly better off, what do they get? Less than a block of butter a week extra. If they save it up over two weeks, they might be able to buy a block of butter. That\u2019s what they\u2019re getting, whilst 61,000 families are actually having the level of financial support they get cut by this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EBest Start payments are being cut for many families. It might not mean much to the members opposite, but for many of those families it\u2019s a box of nappies or a tin of formula, or potentially both, a week that they are now missing out on. In the meantime, those families see their rents continuing to go up, while their landlords get tax cuts. They\u2019re seeing their insurance continuing to go up, partly driven by increasing rates by Government. They\u2019re seeing their rates being driven up by the actions of this Government. Their power prices are going up, in part because the Government\u2019s decided to increase its contribution to power prices across the country. They\u2019re seeing the cost of registering their car going up. The Government made that decision. They\u2019re seeing road-user charges going up\u2014all costs being imposed under National, while cost of living support for things like public transport and so on has been cut by this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that has made bad choices that make life worse for a lot of working New Zealanders. We\u2019ve just heard from Nicola Willis that it\u2019s all because she had no other choices\u2014that there was no room to move and that there was no money. All Governments have choices. Nicola Willis would have had more choices had she not increased borrowing by $12 billion in the last year because she didn\u2019t make her numbers add up. The position that this Government and Nicola Willis have put us in is down to their bad choices. They are choosing austerity and cuts. And austerity is exactly what it is. It failed in the United Kingdom and it will fail here. It will leave New Zealand a poorer country and it says to the next generation of New Zealanders, who are already giving up in record numbers, that they may as well leave the country because there is no hope here. This Government are practically offering them a plane ticket and saying that there is no future for them here and they may as well give up and leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIt is this Government that has chosen women to pay for the unaffordable decisions that they have taken. It\u2019s time they accepted responsibility for their own decisions and stopped blaming everyone else. They should stop blaming unions, nurses, teachers, care and support workers, hospice workers, Plunket nurses, midwives, because these are all choices this Government have made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWhat have those choices led to for New Zealanders? Rising unemployment, record numbers leaving to go overseas, more people living on the streets in cars and under bridges, more children going hungry, women being paid less. These are their decisions and their choices, and they have made bad ones.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EMore people living in cars is nothing to celebrate, and yet this Government has celebrated this year, in this Budget, the amount of money they\u2019ve cut from emergency accommodation. Cutting funding for emergency accommodation and celebrating how much you\u2019ve saved while our agencies that work with our most vulnerable who are living on the streets say they simply cannot keep up with demand, because the numbers of people rough sleeping are growing so fast that they can\u2019t support them, is nothing to celebrate. It says everything about how wrong this Government\u2019s priorities are that they think that booting people out of emergency accommodation and on to the streets is something to be proud of. It\u2019s not something to be proud of; it\u2019s something to be ashamed of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI recently said that there would be three things that we were looking for in this year\u2019s Budget. The first is that it properly funds our front-line public services. Under this Budget, front-line services, like health, continue to go backwards. Last year, we said the money that they\u2019d put into health wouldn\u2019t keep the lights on, or barely kept the lights on. This year, the lights are flickering and starting to fail. The health system simply isn\u2019t getting the funding that it needs to continue to serve New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b0e4bcf8b1e4f8db7ba687f4a751400\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Boring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f69f7577d11042e597351cfbb0e2fb23\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The second thing we were looking for from this\u2014I know Shane Jones thinks the health system is boring, but for New Zealanders that rely on it, it\u2019s pretty damn important\u2014year\u2019s Budget was credible answers to how the Government\u2019s actually going to fund all the promises that it\u2019s been making, and that shouldn\u2019t be at the expense of working New Zealand women. So we were looking, for example, for how they\u2019re going to fund the billions of dollars\u2019 worth of new roads that they promised, the billions of dollars of hospitals and school upgrades\u2014all those things they go round the country talking about, the huge pipeline of work that\u2019s coming. We were looking for an explanation for how that\u2019s going to be funded. Shane Jones is waving it around. He might like to have a look at the level of Government capital investment in that Budget document that he\u2019s waving around that shows that the amount being invested in all those things has been cut from $65 billion to $51 billion. The Government that talks a big game on infrastructure is actually cutting the amount of money that\u2019s being spent on those things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe final thing that we were looking for was a plan to invest in our collective future as a country, and there is no greater example of how this Government doesn\u2019t have one than the changes they have made to KiwiSaver. Working New Zealanders out there saving hard for their retirement will be shocked to learn that this Government has raided their retirement savings to pay for its Budget\u2014not the first time the National Party has done that. KiwiSaver, proudly set up by Labour, halved by the last National Government, is being halved again by this National Government. If there is one message New Zealanders have had loud and clear from this National Party, it\u2019s that they cannot be trusted when it comes to the national treasure that is our KiwiSaver scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s look at what the $2.5 billion of cuts to KiwiSaver mean for working New Zealanders. An 18-year-old New Zealander, as of this year\u2019s Budget, is now going to be $66,000 worse off in their retirement. Let\u2019s be clear on that: for an 18-year-old just starting out, signing up to KiwiSaver, getting into the workforce for the first time, they have just seen $66,000 taken from their KiwiSaver balance on retirement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s talk about someone who\u2019s 30. Someone who\u2019s 30 is going to get $30,000 less in their retirement because of the cuts to KiwiSaver made in this year\u2019s Budget\u2014dressing that up by saying, \u201COh, you can save more of your own money.\u201D, to compensate for the fact that the Government\u2019s just cut KiwiSaver isn\u2019t going to wash. I support greater retirement savings, but I don\u2019t support the Government cutting investment in KiwiSaver and cutting the future retirement savings nest egg of all working New Zealanders, which it has done in this year\u2019s Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThey call this the \u201Cgrowth Budget\u201D. What\u2019s growing? We\u2019ve seen growth in homelessness, growth in unemployment, growth in food prices, growth in people using food banks, growth in the number of people living on the streets, growth in the number of kids living below the poverty line, growth in the number of people giving up and leaving New Zealand, growth in the gender pay gap, and growth in environmental degradation. They are offering growth, but it is growth in all the wrong places, and despite all of their rhetoric, this year\u2019s Budget actually borrows more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EAll Budgets are about choices, and we would make different choices. Governments should serve the people. They should provide hope for the future, they should have a plan for the future, and this Government is doing neither. When Kiwis are out of work and desperate for work, there is very little hope for them in this year\u2019s Budget. When far too many Kiwis are without a home, there\u2019s no hope for them in this year\u2019s Budget. When Kiwis are struggling to get the healthcare they need when they need it, there\u2019s no hope for them in this year\u2019s Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EOur priorities are very clear: jobs, health, homes. This Government\u2019s not delivering on any of those things. They\u2019re making it harder to get a job, and they\u2019re making sure that for those who do have one, it doesn\u2019t pay as well, and that\u2019s particularly the case for hard-working Kiwi women. They\u2019re not funding the healthcare New Zealanders deserve, and they\u2019re making it harder to buy a home. Look at the fine print in this year\u2019s Budget and, after cutting first-home buyer grants last year, you\u2019ll see the Government have once again made it even harder for first-home buyers, not just by their cuts to KiwiSaver but by further cuts, hidden in the fine print, to the other support that\u2019s available to first-home buyers. We\u2019ll get to that in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EJobs, health, and homes should\u2019ve been the priority for this year\u2019s Budget, and they simply weren\u2019t. This is a Government that is delivering cuts, that is delivering austerity, and it\u2019s a Government with no vision for the future. The smoke and mirrors in this Budget\u2014for example, extending prescriptions; a good thing\u2014won\u2019t make up for the fact that the prescriptions they\u2019re extending are for those who can afford to pay for them. For those who lost their free prescriptions, it offers no additional hope whatsoever. The emergency care clinics they\u2019re offering are the very definition of the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, because they can\u2019t find people to staff them. Where are they going to find the doctors and the nurses, particularly given they\u2019ve told the nurses that they\u2019re worth less? But that\u2019s what this year\u2019s Budget has done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EInstead of investing in homes for people\u2014and this is a Government that has cut investment in people\u2019s homes\u2014they are making it harder for people to access the support they need. Instead of supporting people into work, jobs have been slashed. More jobs will be slashed as a result of this year\u2019s Budget. Make no bones about it: this is a Government that is making the wrong choices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESo I look forward to seeing all those one-term National Party backbenchers up the back there going back to their electorates and telling the hard-working Kiwi families who have just found their Best Start payments have been cut, that their Working for Families has been cut, that their KiwiSaver\u2019s been cut, and that they\u2019re not getting the $250 a fortnight the National Party promised them\u2014I look forward to seeing them going around the country and trying to tell New Zealanders why they should be grateful for that. I look forward to them going and telling the half of the population in their electorates who are women why they think they don\u2019t deserve to be paid fairly, because that is the very clear line in the sand that this year\u2019s Budget makes for Kiwi women.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders saving for retirement will get less. Families will never see the $250 a fortnight that the National Party promised them, families are having their Working for Families cut, families are having their Best Start payments cut, and families are having their KiwiSaver retirement nest eggs cut. At a time when we have seen record numbers of people leaving the country under this Government because they are giving up hope, this Government is offering them nothing of the sort. That problem will only get worse under a Government that is offering nothing more than austerity, cuts, division, and divisive politics. New Zealanders deserve better from their Government. It isn\u2019t what they\u2019re being offered today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6929a8c122b4d84b4166e177e0dd137\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6929a8c122b4d84b4166e177e0dd137\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Well, hasn\u2019t it been a shambolic year for the Labour Party\u2014hasn\u2019t it? I have to say: has there ever been a Leader of the Opposition with less substance than Chris Hipkins? What you get is a lot of carping, what you get is a lot of points of order, and you get a lot of wishy-washy, don\u2019t you? It\u2019s a lot of wishy-washy, because beneath it all they have no policies\u2014zero policies\u2014and they have no plan. Of course, the worst thing of all is the constant flip-flopping from the man that I call \u201CMr Bojandals\u201D\u2014\u201CMr Bojandals\u201D\u2014because you have to ask the question: does the Labour Party have a single position on anything, a consistent position on anything? Let\u2019s just look at the last few weeks, because here\u2019s a pretty basic question if you want to be in Government, and the question is quite simply: how much debt is the Labour Party prepared to take on? It turns out the answer depends on who you actually ask; that\u2019s the problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EIf you ask Barbara Edmonds, you sort of get a sensible sort of response or idea. Yep, she wants to tax more. Yep, she\u2019s going to spend more. Yep, she\u2019s going to borrow more. But she\u2019s promising to keep debt around 50 percent of GDP, and she\u2019s promising to get to a surplus within four years. That\u2019s pretty basic stuff, really. Actually, big-spending Grant Robertson would have even signed up for that stuff. But I\u2019m telling you, if you ask Chris Hipkins, you get a completely different answer, because, within days of Barbara promising that she would meet that debt cap, within days of her promising to deliver the surplus in the four years, he actually goes on radio, throws her under the bus, and then doesn\u2019t stick to that commitment. Instead, what we get from Chris Hipkins is that we have to have a \u201Cmature conversation\u201D\u2014a \u201Cmature conversation\u201D\u2014about Government debt. What that really means is that he wants a lot more debt. We know that to be true because, the last time they were in Government, they added $120 billion extra in debt, and we have nothing to show for it except economic pain and economic suffering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003ENow, the Green Party and Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, they may have two leaders each, but under the Labour Party\u2014under Chris Hipkins and Barbara Edmonds\u2014we are seeing, for the first time in political history, a party with two different Budgets. We\u2019re going to have two debt targets, we\u2019re going to have two surplus targets, we\u2019re going to have two plans for spending more, borrowing more, and taxing more, and we have two MPs that are totally unqualified to run the economy. I just would ask you all to close your eyes and reflect and think and imagine a nightmare scenario, which is Chris Hipkins, Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, Marama Davidson, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer, and Rawiri Waititi, sitting round a table, discussing how they\u2019ll run the economy. Well, I have to say: these people can\u2019t run a bath\u2014they cannot run a bath\u2014let alone run an economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EBut the flip-flopping doesn\u2019t stop here, because if we just take pay equity\u2014let\u2019s talk about that up front; let\u2019s be really honest about it\u2014Labour\u2019s regime was unworkable, it was broken, it was unaffordable. We\u2019ve made the sensible changes, and, yes, we\u2019ve saved $12 billion in doing so. But here\u2019s a really basic question: what is the Labour Party\u2019s position on pay equity? What is it? We, first of all, heard Chris Hipkins say he\u2019s going to roll it all back\u2014roll back the changes\u2014whatever the cost may be, without knowing what the cost actually is. Despite having been in Government for six years, you\u2019d think they\u2019d actually know this stuff, but they didn\u2019t. Then guess what happened! The next day, \u201CMr Bojandals\u201D showed up and the U-turn was away; that\u2019s what happened. Now he\u2019s saying he may not roll it all back, because it\u2019s a little bit complicated and it\u2019s a little bit too hard; that\u2019s where we are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EThere are two more flip-flops about to come, because the unions and Fleur Fitzsimons are going to hit him, and he\u2019s going to change his position, and then Barbara will internalise the actual depth of the number and then, before you know it, actually, he\u2019ll be back in the old position again. But the flip-flopping doesn\u2019t stop there, because last week, we saw the Green Party roll out their plan for $88 billion in new taxes, $44 billion in more debt, and it is a dangerous plan. It is absolute madness and insanity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022763f7269fff544e1ad35dd3e44d378dc\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I note that the member didn\u2019t refer to my colleague as Barbara Edmonds, and I thought that was something that this House has ruled on this week that we should be doing: using both names.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022479230838a3740cfb3afef3164b95251\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Good point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022249e9adce3524a2490942eb7a525070d\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: So they add $88 billion worth of new taxes. They add $44 billion worth of new debt. But you\u2019ve got to admire the Green Party, at least they have a plan. At least they have the courage to have a plan. Labour don\u2019t. The question I\u2019ve got to say is: when he got the chance, did you actually hear Chris Hipkins rule any of it out?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e769b11b505a4f0a83727253bb76f78a\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db83eabbb42e4a75a37009115873b44b\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: No. Did he actually rule out the wealth tax?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022704fe833d8c545e1ad6e1734de995777\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295e0e70cf36b44e28ad64bd4747354ff\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Did he rule out the inheritance tax?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b105ea4890914683af2ba63fd6733260\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e3eff71252e479caf5fd3f62b9c765d\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Did he rule out the trust tax? Did he take that off the table?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e183a40d45284ac8b1aa8d10f6eb4a4e\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276683954f37a4d37bde9677feb491bc3\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: No. And could he rule out an income tax rate that sees, on average, nurses being worse off under a Labour-Green Budget? No, he didn\u2019t do that either. As far as Chris Hipkins is concerned, everything\u2019s off the table or on the table. I\u2019ve just got to tell you\u2014here\u2019s my prediction\u2014I\u2019ll tell you what\u2019s going to happen: he is going to come out, flip-flop, and actually desperately try and rule it all out\u2014the Greens\u2019 plan\u2014and then you know what he\u2019s going to do? He\u2019s going to launch a broken tax plan of his own very, very shortly. You watch this space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EBut of course it has been a year of flip-flopping for the Labour Party, and we, on this side of the House, had that feeling it was coming this year. We could tell because, on day one, he showed up in his jandals, you know, and then it just got worse, because the flip-flops have come thick and fast. He\u2019s flipped and flopped on public-private partnerships. They flip-flopped on the gang patch ban. They flip-flopped on charter schools. They flip-flopped on the mobile phone ban. I\u2019m telling you, all this despite the fact that Labour have literally zero policies and no plan. You know, they have nothing to explain, and they cannot explain it. It\u2019s unbelievable. It\u2019s quite something.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EOf course, when Chris Hipkins actually launches Labour\u2019s plans to smash Kiwis with a capital gains tax, which I guarantee will happen by the end of the year, that will be the biggest flip-flop of them all. And why? Because, within three years, we\u2019ve had four different positions on capital gains tax from the Labour Party. First and foremost, they were very much against it. Secondly, they set up poor David Parker and Grant Robertson to discuss the merits of a wealth tax versus a capital gains tax. Then \u201CMr Bojandals\u201D shows up and makes a captain\u2019s call and says it\u2019s all off\u2014it\u2019s all been ruled out\u2014and I guarantee you, by the end of this year, he\u2019s going to show up here, launch a capital gains tax, and say, \u201CThat\u2019s the solution to all of our economic woes.\u201D Watch this space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll just say, at the end of the day, we know what economic policies we get from the Labour Party, the Green Party, and Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori. We know what those three policies are going to be: one, they are going to tax more, guaranteed\u2014guaranteed; secondly, they will have more wasteful spending, guaranteed\u2014absolutely guaranteed; and thirdly, they\u2019re going to have a lot more\u2014a hell of a lot more\u2014debt, guaranteed. I can tell you that\u2019s what the policies actually are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EBut enough about the Labour Party, because I have to say this has been another year and another outstanding Budget from the great Nicola Willis. I\u2019ve got to tell you: how lucky is New Zealand and how lucky are we to have someone as hard working, tenacious, determined, smart to deliver yet again, another amazing Budget? For a second year in a row, she\u2019s knocked it completely out of the park. Thank you, Nicola Willis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003ENow, Budget 2025 is a responsible Budget, and it is focused on growth, and it is focused on helping Kiwis get ahead. It\u2019s a Budget that supports the cost of living, it\u2019s a Budget that makes significant investments in the front-line services that Kiwis rely upon, it\u2019s a Budget that, despite a very difficult international backdrop, charts a responsible pathway back to a surplus, and it\u2019s a Budget about growth that is ambitious for New Zealand. Here are the numbers: Treasury\u2019s latest forecasts show that, under this Budget, inflation remains in the band, interest rates will remain low, economic growth is going to average 2.7 percent over the period. We\u2019ve got, most importantly, wages growing faster than inflation, and that helps working Kiwis every single year of this Budget. We will generate 240,000 new jobs in the period of this Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EFor the hard-working Kiwis trying to get ahead, these forecasts\u2014I tell you\u2014are good news and they reinforce that New Zealand is turning the economic corner incredibly well. Inflation is down, interest rates are down, growth is back, we grew 0.7 percent in the last quarter, and in regional New Zealand, when you get out there, exports are taking off, dairy\u2019s doing incredibly well, and our tourists are flocking back to New Zealand. We want a lot more of it. We want a lot more growth in this coalition Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EI want everybody to know whether you are a farmer, a grower, a tourism operator, a manufacturer, a small-business owner, or an exporter that we want to say thank you to you. We want to say thank you for what you do. I hope you know that we back you 100 percent and we will do whatever it takes for you to be able to win\u2014whether that\u2019s fast track or whether it\u2019s Resource Management Act reform, whether it\u2019s keeping agriculture out of the emissions trading scheme, building new roads, signing fresh trade deals, or attracting more investment from offshore, we are utterly, utterly obsessed with economic growth, on making your life easier so that New Zealand can be an outstanding place to do business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003ENow, this brings me back to this year\u2019s Budget, because our Government\u2019s top priority is economic growth and it\u2019s at the heart of what we\u2019re doing in this Budget. The centrepiece of that focus is Investment Boost. That is a critical next step in our plan to lift economic productivity. From today, if you are a tradie, a farmer, a manufacturer, a small-business owner, or another hard-working Kiwi actually wanting to invest in the future of the New Zealand economy, we\u2019re making it a little bit easier for you to grow your business\u2014I\u2019ll keep it real simple\u2014because Investment Boost means cheaper tractors. It means cheaper utes. It means cheaper plant and equipment for manufacturers and winemakers and tourism operators and start-ups. It means fostering the investment New Zealand businesses need to lift productivity, to increase wages, to boost exports, and to get even more competitive on the global stage. It means making New Zealand a much more attractive destination for overseas investment. It means, most importantly, backing Kiwis to work smarter, not harder, as a result\u2014higher wages, more jobs, and a chance for every New Zealander to get on top of the cost of living.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EYou see, that\u2019s the difference between this Government and National and Labour. That is the big difference. We back small businesses to invest and to create jobs and to lift wages. Meanwhile, Labour\u2019s gearing up to actually smash them and punish them with the capital gains tax as they stop them from just getting on and doing what they do, which is to grow. But National backs growth and\u2014I\u2019m telling you\u2014Labour wants to tax it. It\u2019s that simple.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003ENow, of course, it doesn\u2019t stop there, because in Budget 2025 we\u2019re making major investments in infrastructure; in Invest New Zealand; in growing tourism; in accelerating our science, innovation and technology sector; backing our film industry; and our early stage tech companies. It\u2019s all part of our plan to go for economic growth to create jobs and lift wages. Why? So that Kiwis can actually get ahead. That\u2019s what we\u2019re here to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EIn this Budget, though, we have also got some very targeted support for those dealing with the cost of living. We\u2019ve had years of economic mismanagement and vandalism from the Labour Government and that left a massive financial toll on families up and down this country. We all know the history. The history was pretty simple: lots of wasteful spending drove up inflation, drove up interest rates, led to a massive blowout in debt, and took a massive toll on families up and down around the country. Kiwis paid the price for their economic incompetence. That\u2019s what happened here. Since day one, all of this Government has been focused on cleaning up their mess, and now we\u2019re starting to see those results. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EThe exciting thing for working New Zealanders is that under this Government, the Government of the workers and the low and middle income New Zealanders, their wages after inflation have gone up\u2014listen to this\u2014$1,100 in the short time that we\u2019ve been in Government. Under the last three years of a Labour Government, it went up a measly $80 average after inflation wages, right? That comes on top of the first tax relief, which we delivered in the last Budget for low and middle income, working New Zealanders. The shame of it is Labour, the Greens, Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, and the unions didn\u2019t support getting more money into the back pockets of working New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003ENow, we know that there is a lot more for us to do, which is why in this year\u2019s Budget we are taking action to support those dealing with the cost of living in a targeted way. You\u2019ve seen it with the changes to Working for Families payments, which means that 142,000 families across this country will receive, on average, an increase of about $14 per fortnight. We have 66,000 SuperGold card holders who are going to receive a rates rebate, ensuring that older New Zealanders living on a fixed income can navigate the cost of living in a much better way. I have to say to everyone listening, if you\u2019re receiving New Zealand super, your payments are going to continue to rise under this Government. In fact, they have already risen $130 for a couple per fortnight since we came to power 18 months ago. We\u2019re also extending the prescription lengths from three to 12 months. Of course, what that means for a lot of Kiwis is that removes a lot of time, a lot of hassle, and a lot of expense. Importantly, what it\u2019s doing is it\u2019s freeing up GP appointments so that those that need to see a doctor can get in and actually get that appointment as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003ENow, this Budget isn\u2019t just about economic growth; as I said it\u2019s about cost of living, but it\u2019s also about investments in the front-line services. I\u2019ll just say to you, look at the investments that we\u2019re putting into health: $164 million to fund more urgent care and more after-hours care for Kiwis so they can see a doctor when they need to. We\u2019re rolling that out across the country. We\u2019re talking about new 24-hour urgent care services in Whang\u0101rei, in Tauranga, in Palmerston North, in Dunedin, in Counties Manukau. That means new urgent care services in the Hutt, in Timaru, and in Invercargill. It means extended after-hours services in Dargaville, Hokianga, Kait\u0101ia, Gisborne, H\u0101wera, Tauranga, Te K\u016Biti, Taup\u014D, Tokoroa, Whakat\u0101ne, Dannevirke, Levin, Masterton, Wairoa, Alexandra, Ashburton, Golden Bay, Gore, and Oamaru. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EWe have targeted support for more than 70 rural and remote communities, including extending after hours, 24/7 on call, in-person support, and improved access to diagnostics and medicines. All up, 98 percent of Kiwis will be able to receive in-person urgent care within an hour\u2019s drive of their home. I\u2019m telling you, that will make a real difference to many, many thousands of New Zealanders. Of course, we\u2019re funding more health infrastructure\u2014another $1 billion going in to make sure that we can actually redevelop Nelson Hospital, make sure that we can deliver a new emergency department for Wellington Hospital. That is a brilliant, brilliant healthcare package put together by a fantastic world-class Minister of Health: Simeon Brown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EThe good news is it\u2019s not just about health, because we all know in this House that we cannot have a strong economy if our kids haven\u2019t mastered the basics, and our businesses can\u2019t access the skills that they need to grow. The good news is in this Budget, thanks to our brilliant Minister of Education, Erica Stanford, we have some major investments coming into education. Every child in New Zealand deserves an outstanding start to life. We want them to have the very best opportunity and all the potential to succeed and to realise their potential. That\u2019s why we campaigned for an hour a day of maths and reading and writing. That\u2019s why we implemented a mobile phone ban. That\u2019s why we\u2019re actually rolling out structured literacy and structured mathematics so that we teach our kids the basics well and they get a chance at accessing higher-paying jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EBut parents also need to know that if their child needs extra help, they have a real chance at getting the support that they need. In this Budget, we\u2019re going further than ever before: the most significant and most comprehensive investment in learning support in a generation. Having spoken to many of the parents, I\u2019m proud to say that the investments that we are making will be able to deliver 900,000 hours in additional teacher-aide time by 2028. We also have fresh opportunities for speech-language therapy and educational psychology. We\u2019re also building new classrooms, too. There\u2019s $514 million set aside for 300 new classrooms and new and expanded schools, and there\u2019s $90 million set aside for 25 new learning support special classrooms and also improvements to those schools for students with additional needs as well. We have done that after watching Labour fail our kids year after year. We watched our children fall further and further behind against the rest of the world, and our Government\u2019s determined to turn that all around, because every child deserves to master the basics and every child deserves their shot at their version of the Kiwi Dream, whatever that may be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EWell, I have to say this is another excellent Budget from Nicola Willis. It really is. Just like every family around the country, we have had to make tough choices about what we spend our money on. Against the challenging international backdrop, it\u2019s a responsible Budget and it gets the basics right. It is a Budget focused on unleashing economic growth, creating jobs, increasing wages so that Kiwis can get ahead. It\u2019s a Budget that\u2019s providing targeted cost of living support as well. It\u2019s a Budget that makes fresh investments in front-line services, like health and education, and it\u2019s a Budget that actually keeps the country on a pathway back to surplus so that we can keep a lid on the debt and keep New Zealand well positioned for a rainy day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003EWe know on this side that it\u2019s only through a strong economy that we can deal with the cost of living, that we can support Kiwis to get ahead, and we can make sure that we can afford the world-class public services that New Zealanders expect and deserve. So let me say, in closing, Budget 2025 is another excellent step in that direction and all part of getting New Zealand back on track. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u00222980d8f9662340618c66acbcf3ea9f3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222980d8f9662340618c66acbcf3ea9f3c\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Isn\u2019t it telling that in the Prime Minister\u2019s speech he spent the majority of his time talking about our Green Budget and not his own. Budgets make Governments put their money where their mouth is. They show how a small group of elected people who win power by convincing enough people to vote for them will gather and spend our country\u2019s collective resources. It shows you who they think is worth protecting, and who they think deserves to suffer. It shows you what they think hard choices are: whether they think it\u2019s harder to tax the rich or to allow children to live in poverty, whether they think it\u2019s harder to protect nature or hand over our forests and our oceans to fossil fuel lobbyists, whether they think it\u2019s harder to feed the poor or to arm up for somebody else\u2019s war.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EToday, the Government has shown us that it thinks it\u2019s harder to get the rich to pay their fair share than to look after regular people and the planet that we all share. For them, the path of least resistance is the suffering of regular New Zealanders. Just look at the cruel and callous decisions to punch down on young people who need income support. Just look at their cuts to Best Start. Tens of thousands of families will miss out because this Government has decided that supporting babies who don\u2019t meet their necessary threshold for investment\u2014they are supposedly saving $200 million by denying money to our tiniest New Zealanders. Coincidentally, they could find $200 million for new offshore gasfields. Let me spell that out: in a climate and inequality crisis, the Government is taking money away from wh\u0101nau with a new baby at home and setting it on fire by ploughing it into new fossil fuel exploration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ELast week, the Greens showed the country what we would do if we were making these decisions. We showed people that we could reduce the cost of living, increase our quality of life, and rapidly reduce climate-changing emissions. We were straight up that doing so means fixing the tax system, and sensible borrowing to build a resilient economy. We chose common-sense decisions for our common good. We chose everybody seeing their GP for free. We chose every child in this country getting high-quality early childhood education that they need for a good life, free and publicly provided like every other year of schooling. We chose to fix Working for Families with a fair approach that lifts every single family out of poverty instead of a punitive abatement that pits the worst off and the slightly better off against each other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ENow, the Government, well they looked at the problem of high, effective marginal tax rates, which they know is a diabolical trap for wh\u0101nau, and decided to make it worse. We, however, chose well-resourced public transport, reducing stress and congestion and climate-changing emissions; trains in and between our cities to connect wh\u0101nau and friends and opportunities and fun, and, God forbid, to connect our country. We chose to put the wellbeing of everybody over the profits of a few, but this Government today chose to slash almost everything that we care about to protect those profits of a few.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo much for no BS, eh? This is the \u201Ctrickle-down Budget\u201D. This is the \u201Cno ambition Budget\u201D. This is the \u201Cchild poverty is actually all good Budget\u201D. This is the \u201Cdismantle the country and hope to sell it for parts to international investment funds Budget\u201D. This is the \u201Cask the lowest-paid working women in this country to pay the cost of your unequal economy Budget\u201D. This is the \u201Clet them eat cake Budget\u201D. This is the \u201CBS Budget\u201D, because the Government is taking New Zealanders for chumps. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThis Government is asking New Zealanders to believe that this is as high as we could possibly aim. They want people to believe that they should be scared of each other. They want people to believe that there\u2019s not enough to go around. They want people to believe that what it takes to survive is relentlessly and exhaustingly competing and hustling and hoarding. They want people to believe that if you don\u2019t, someone else will come and take it, that working harder, longer, for less, is somehow the only way to survive, but that one day you too could knuckle down and buy an over-leveraged property and owe a whole heap of money to the bank, and that your highest aspiration could be to buy a couple of homes and to rent them out to people so that you could charge an arm and a leg for the privilege of not freezing on the street. They want you to believe that our time is only valuable if it turns a profit, that our worth is only outputs and key performance indicators, that our native taonga, our whenua, our wildlife, they only matter once they have been sold.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThis Government knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Everything in their world is only as worthwhile as its ability to generate a surplus. The Government wants New Zealanders to believe that this country does not have enough, that New Zealanders aren\u2019t enough, and that we all need to settle for far less than what we deserve. We in the Greens know that that is simply not true. Our country now is wealthier than it has ever been, but, for some strange reason, half a million New Zealanders are using food banks every week. We rank rock-bottom in OECD countries for children\u2019s wellbeing. The Government is fast tracking the destruction of native wildlife to line the pockets of fossil fuel executives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EDon\u2019t hate the player; hate the game, eh? Well, clearly, we hate the game. The majority of people who play this game every single year, where fewer and fewer people win, and more and more people lose, well, I believe they hate the game too. But the rules of this game were made up, and they can be remade. The rules of this game were made up by the people in this House roughly 40 years ago by a string of radical finance Ministers who wanted to justify their dogmatic belief and the need to shrink the size of the State and rewrite the terms of our social contract. While the Government of today fixates on these outdated, self-imposed targets in this made-up game, it ignores the stuff that is really, really real.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EBecause what is an economy really? It\u2019s just you and me, our planet, the stuff we make, and the relationships between all of those things. It\u2019s the plumber turning up to work on a cold winter\u2019s morning; the nurse clocking in. It is our land, our water, our natural ecosystems. It is our infrastructure which supports all of those rich resources. It is the experience, it is the skills, it\u2019s the creativity held by each and every New Zealander. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWithout nature, there is no economy. A river poisoned by mining doesn\u2019t care about your race back to surplus. The children who currently are sleeping in bus shelters and under bridges because the Government has made it harder to access emergency housing and wrap-around support do not care about the debt-to-GDP ratio. The native species that the Government is deciding to push into extinction with the race to extract and exploit cannot be brought back to life when we grow this made-up pie. But, oh yeah, let\u2019s not forget that they\u2019ve also cut Predator Free. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThere is an indigenous people\u2019s proverb which goes something like: \u201COnly when the last tree has been cut down, the last fish has been caught, the last stream poisoned, will we realise that we cannot eat money.\u201D This Government has lost sight of how these fiscal measures are means and metrics, not goals unto themselves. They are ways to do things, not the things that we do for their own sake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EIt should be blindingly obvious that when the real world is falling apart around your ears, anyone who wants to declare themselves as a leader should be focused on fixing the real things that actually matter. But what this Government is telling us is \u201CComputer says no\u201D. Instead of daring to imagine a new computer programme, instead of questioning whether that system needs updating, this Government has decided it\u2019s the people who are wrong, not their tired, failed, exhausted old script.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EBut it does not have to be this way. The Greens believe in the power, the creativity, and the people of this country. We know that by working together, we can achieve things that not one of us could possibly achieve alone. We know that our nation isn\u2019t 5 million random, isolated, alienated individuals all doing our own thing. We are New Zealanders because we share this country, and our futures are inextricably intertwined. In order for us to move forward, to really, truly, properly move forward, we cannot leave anyone behind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe Greens are not solely interested in fiscal management but in real-world economic management. We know that a surplus ultimately means nothing on paper if your people can\u2019t afford to eat. We know that pushing more capital into this economy doesn\u2019t mean that much if New Zealanders are slaves to it, instead of the owners of it. We know that for all of the big speeches from this Government on \u201CGoing For Growth\u201D, their merciless cuts mean that all they are growing is homelessness, poverty, inequality, climate-changing emissions, the pockets of the rich, and the young people currently leaving this country in droves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EA different world is possible. We can look after each other, and we can care for our planet. Who\u2019s telling us that we can\u2019t? Oh! It\u2019s the people who are currently making a heck of a lot of money and holding a lot of power in the rules of the game as it currently runs. Of course change terrifies them. That\u2019s why they have spent decades building up thinktanks and talkback radio hosts and political parties who will tell everyone that \u201CThis is just the way that things are.\u201D They will conveniently leave out the fact that the way things are right now is pretty bloody recent phenomena. In the 1930s and 1940s, after some of the worst atrocities that we have seen in the world, our country decided to create public healthcare, public education, and public housing, and we paid for it with higher taxes on those who had profited handsomely during a time of hardship for many. We have done it before, and we can do it again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EBut then, just before I was born, politicians in this place who went on to found the most radical, right-wing party in here, decided to shred all of that and sell off the things that we all owned. They changed the rules as to what the Government could account for and why. A few people made a lot of money, and regular people have been left fighting for crumbs. Those same very people who have made a lot of money hoovering up the things that we all used to own together and then selling those services like electricity back to regular New Zealanders for eye-watering costs\u2014those people are now bankrolling some of those same parties which tell regular people that \u201CThis is just the way things are. Don\u2019t think about it too hard.\u201D The rules of this game are designed so that regular people blame themselves instead of seeing this game for what it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe Government is not a household. The Minister of Finance talks about maxed-out credit cards, but that is not how it actually works when you are managing a country\u2019s economy. The Government should not and does not have to penny-pinch while it is fixing the roof that is leaking. We can and we should build things and invest in our future together. What we need to do, we have that to do it ourselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EOf course we need to be careful and we need to be thoughtful about how we do it. You can\u2019t just throw money at things if you haven\u2019t built the real-world capacity to actually build those things. Funnily enough, this Government\u2019s Budget simultaneously cuts funding from the things that we hold dear, but also undermines and guts our real-world economic capacity. Real responsibility means taking care of more than just a balance sheet. Growing our economic capacity means investing in energy infrastructure, in stable jobs, and in transport. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ENow, the Government will tell us all that we just have to wait. We have to wait until the economy grows, wait until the books are balanced, wait to care for people\u2014as though those things are luxuries and not necessities. But while we wait, this Government shifts more and more of the burden on to everyday people through toll roads, new fees, rising costs. They are making New Zealanders pay more while they are doing less. They do this in the name of shrinking public debt, which they know will increase private debt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EIn a country with some of the highest levels of household debt in the OECD, this straight-up does not make any economic sense. It\u2019s not common sense, because none of this is common sense. It is common sense to ensure that everyone in this country has a safe, warm, dry home to live in. It is common sense to ensure that everyone can get their teeth fixed when they need it. It is common sense for us to look after the planet that we all rely on for our survival. It is common sense for us to invest in ourselves, to collectively plan for a future that is based on New Zealanders\u2019 know-how and creativity, not simply to satisfy some spreadsheets on a banker\u2019s computer screen in New York City. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EEven the Minister of Finance herself admitted the other day\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201Cnot all spending is a cost. Some spending is investment that provides a social and financial return over the longer-term.\u201D Well, Minister, Government spending is not a zero-sum game, because the Government is not a household, and investment is not just a cost, yet successive Governments have been fixated on reducing the fiscal deficit and, in doing so, they have neglected the world around them and the growing deficits that aren\u2019t represented on our books: the billions in neglected infrastructure, the huge social deficit, and the climate liabilities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESuccessive Governments have chosen to be bound by these self-imposed debt targets\u2014this old-school accounting, not real-world economics. The models which generate these numbers\u2014well, they tell us when debt might be dangerous, but they don\u2019t tend to tell us when the risks of under-investment are genuinely dangerous. How long can our country sustain decades of chronic under-investment? We need to be willing in this place to have a grown-up conversation about the opportunity cost of not investing in our future. That is a real social investment approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EBut by refusing to do so, and by crafting ideologically driven targets, the Minister of Finance is showing us that she\u2019s the real radical in this room. Her fixation on reducing debt beyond levels recommended by Treasury\u2014which necessitates these pages and pages of investment cuts\u2014put us all on an incredibly, incredibly dangerous path. The Minister of Finance\u2019s self-imposed fiscal rules and expenditure, gunning for historic lows, will, according to Treasury itself, change\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201Cthe fundamental role of Government in New Zealand\u201D. I don\u2019t believe that this is the radicalism that New Zealanders voted for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EIf balancing the books is only to be done by throwing working people under the bus, then the books need to be rewritten. If meeting your targets mean that the productive sectors of our economy shrink, while the paper values of the wealthy increase, then we need to rethink those targets. The question before us isn\u2019t whether we can afford to care for each other; it\u2019s whether we choose to. This Budget is a mirror, and it reflects the Government\u2019s values. They know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. We can do so much better, and the Greens have shown this country precisely how.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00229b5916d698f648d5afad3a891bc3ba2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b5916d698f648d5afad3a891bc3ba2f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the member, I just want to make it clear that the question is that the amendment be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022021946b15316406b834aa9a48416e86d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022021946b15316406b834aa9a48416e86d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. You know, you can always tell when a politician\u2019s speechwriter doesn\u2019t like her very much, and that was certainly one of those circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fafe091b62ed46e0b0213a3043f3064b\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: She wrote it herself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b0e5f8ff329426abb761509905832ac\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Someone said that she wrote it herself\u2014well, that\u2019s not very nice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI rise on behalf of ACT in support of this Budget, and I want to start with some simple truths about every Government Budget. When a Government spends, it takes from the firms, the farms, and the families that make up our great country. Every dollar that the Government spends cannot be spent by a family paying their groceries or their energy bill or renovating their house, it can\u2019t be invested by a business trying to create new jobs, and it can\u2019t be spent by a farmer trying to buy a new tractor. Nobody else can spend that dollar, because the Government has it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut it\u2019s not just that simple power to tax. The Government has a diabolical power: time travel. It can actually take money now, put it into the fiscal TARDIS, and send it into the future as debt one day landing on taxpayers who might just be starting on their ABCs this afternoon, or maybe, with the help of the Government\u2019s new maths assistance, their \u201Cone, two, threes\u201D. Every Government has an obligation to stop the fiscal TARDIS for the sake of future generations. Every Government, like this one, must have a path to return to surplus and start paying debt down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EAnother fact is that this Budget isn\u2019t the one that the ACT Party alone would bring. If you\u2019ve read ACT\u2019s alternative budgets in past years, you\u2019ll know that this Government is spending in this Budget more than we would. But I can tell you something else: it is also spending much less than a Budget without ACT, and I\u2019m proud of the role that ACT has played, working with our partners in the National Party and New Zealand First, to bring together this coalition Budget. I\u2019m proud of the role that we\u2019ve played in questioning spending, finding the savings, and, collectively together, saving billions of dollars\u2014about $4.9 billion a year\u2014for the taxpayer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EAnother great feature of this Budget was those authors. You see, it wasn\u2019t written by the postmodern unicorn-chasers of the Opposition benches, like the ones we just heard. This Budget, among other things, signals another year of stable Government for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe Greens\u2014well, they\u2019ve, helpfully, shown us their alternative budget. They would increase annual Government spending by $22 billion a year, and, with that, they promised that they would end poverty. I read the Greens\u2019 alternative budget and it got me wondering if anything like this has ever happened before. Well, something very similar has happened. The last time the Greens were in Government, they increased annual Government spending by $52 billion a year. Now, here\u2019s the thing: they can\u2019t have it both ways. Either $52 billion of extra spending was enough to fix all our problems, or $22 billion will not be enough to fix all our problems. You see, the Greens are intellectually bankrupt, and if they were over here in Government instead of there in Opposition, the Government would be fiscally bankrupt, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut their bankruptcy does not end there. They\u2019re also morally bankrupt, because societies succeed when we push each other up and don\u2019t pull each other down, and the core message of the Greens, when you listen to all those thundering cliches and shop-worn phrases\u2014in fact, I don\u2019t think Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick uses an expression unless it\u2019s so well road-tested that it\u2019s lost any semblance of traction. But if you listen to it all, what you hear is a simple message to her supporters: \u201CYour problems are caused by someone else\u2019s success, and if we were in power we would pull them down. The solution to your problem is to take from someone else.\u201D That is the moral bankruptcy at the heart of the Opposition\u2019s proposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ENow, there are two other parties in Opposition. Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori probably don\u2019t know what a Budget is or that it was on today, so we needn\u2019t worry about them. They show up to Parliament for TikTok, not for the good of all New Zealanders\u2014and ain\u2019t that the truth? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThen there is the Labour Party. Their whole electoral strategy is kind of the opposite of the Kama Sutra\u2014they don\u2019t have a position on anything. It\u2019s dangerous to have a party desperate for power that won\u2019t tell you its policies. An Opposition of unicorn-chasers, TikTok wannabes, and dodgers should never be allowed near your money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EACT supporters, on the other hand\u2014our Ministers, our members of Parliament, and our allies in Government\u2014are proud to stand behind a Budget that is saving to invest and is boosting the productive capacity of New Zealanders. We have a simple set of values that just happen to work the world over. Any Government is only a group of people, and so is the rest of the population. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI ask those who say that the Government can solve all your problems: if a group of people ensnared in the policy, politics, and bureaucracy of Government can solve your problems, imagine what human beings could do if they were free to do it for themselves without the politics and bureaucracy\u2014and that\u2019s why the Government that governs best is the Government that governs less. That\u2019s why any Government\u2019s goal should be unleashing the creative powers of a free society that are in all of us. The goal should be freedom under the law so that each of us can make a difference in our own lives and in the lives of those that they care about. The alternative\u2014the politicians and their grand Government schemes\u2014cannot make New Zealanders flourish, because nobody can be forced to flourish. A country can only flourish, on the other hand, when each of us is free to be ourselves and succeed on our own terms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI believe that those values are reflected in this Budget. This Budget reduces the share of the nation\u2019s economic pie that is taken by Government, and while ACT would never have its fingers in the pie, our fingerprints are all over it. You see, inflation is currently at 2.5 percent. The population grew by 0.9 percent, or about 47,000, in the last year, and that means that our population plus inflation is almost 3.5 percent. If the Government\u2019s Budget had grown by 3.5 percent, it would have grown by $5 billion, and the question is: does this Budget increase spending by $5 billion? No, it does not; it increases by a fraction of that. It increases by only $1.3 billion, and that is the saving. That is where we are growing our spending by less than the rest of the economy and saving New Zealanders money so that there\u2019s more for those firms and those farms and those families that make up this great country to consume. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ENow, that may be true, but it\u2019s not the whole story, because, too often, Budgets are said to be all about who gets what. Actually, Budgets are about values and about ensuring that there is a reward for flourishing, for taking action, and making the most of your time on earth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why it\u2019s so important that under this Budget, if a business invests in new plant and equipment, they can write off 20 percent of the value and pay no tax right now. If you\u2019re a farmer buying new milking machines because you want to increase your output and export to the world, if you\u2019re a start-up investing in lab equipment to test the science of your product, if you\u2019re a restaurant upgrading a commercial kitchen to serve more people better and faster, or if you\u2019re a logistics company investing in better-enterprise resource management to get stuff to the right place faster, it\u2019s not up to any politician to tell people how this policy should be used. It\u2019s up to the creative people of New Zealand, and whatever they\u2019re trying to do, the 20 percent capital asset deduction will reduce the tax drag on investing in order to increase productivity and wages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe Treasury forecasts that by the time those young Kiwis learning their ABCs I mentioned enter the workforce, wages will be 1.5 percent higher than they would otherwise be, thanks to this policy alone. This Budget doesn\u2019t just hose money at what\u2019s politically popular; it sets the foundations for growth and it benefits those New Zealanders who may not be able to vote yet but who will look back and thank today\u2019s Government for this policy, if they care to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EPaying less tax certainly matters. If people can keep and reinvest more of what they make, it actually starts a virtuous circle turning. That investment that leads to productivity, leads to higher wages and higher profits. Those profits can be reinvested, leading to more productivity, and those higher wages empower workers to become investors and owners themselves. Productivity rises more, and all the Government needs to do to allow this virtuous circle to turn is less. I\u2019m proud to be part of a Government that is doing just that, where it counts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWhen the Budget debate adjourns, we\u2019ll see the Regulatory Standards Bill debated and sent on its way to become law, and though I said at the start that the Government\u2019s goal should be unleashing the creative powers of a free society, paying less tax is half of the equation to human flourishing, but that\u2019s just about the Government taking less of your property in tax in the first place. The Government must also restrain itself from restricting how you use the property you have left, and for far too long, politicians have come into this House and trampled New Zealanders\u2019 rights to use and exchange their own property. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThey do it for political reasons. They ban people from using buildings in order to show they care about to earthquakes, even if no lives will be saved and the cost will be billions. They ban oil and gas exploration to show that they care about the planet, even if the practical outcome is to our burning more coal. They give every Tom, Dick, and H\u014Dne the right to object to your building a house in order to show that they care about the planet, but the truth is that there\u2019s a whole generation who find that there\u2019s not enough habitat for humanity in our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EDemocracy demands that politicians be held accountable for bad lawmaking, and that\u2019s what the Regulatory Standards Bill will facilitate. It will require lawmakers to publicly declare what problem their law seeks to solve, it will require them to show the effects on people\u2019s liberties and their property rights, and it will require them to weigh the costs and benefits of a law and publicly state who pays the costs and reaps the benefits. That sort of transparency and accountability will not actually stop bad lawmakers\u2014Parliament will remain sovereign\u2014but what it will do is help voters identify and punish the bad lawmakers when they vote, and, over time, we\u2019ll see a change of incentives in our politics and a change in our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EJustifiable, necessary regulations will remain but others won\u2019t. The builder who takes longer to get consent than actually build the thing will spend more time building homes for the next generation and less time being frustrated with the council. The educator who only wanted to open up young minds will have more time to do that and less time being afraid of the Ministry of Education. The lawyer conveyancing property will spend more time articulating their clients\u2019 interests and less time checking their identity, again and again and again. The church organising an Anzac Day parade will spend more time preparing to honour those who made the ultimate sacrifice for our country and less time talking to the council about more frickin\u2019 cones. That is the world of empowerment, with less red tape and regulation, that this Budget and the Regulatory Standards Bill herald. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut the Government is also investing in things that matter, and what matters more than anything is to be safe in our bodies from thugs abroad and thugs at home. That\u2019s why a half-billion-dollar boost in defence and foreign affairs is necessary in a changing world. ACT long campaigned, one alternative budget after another, to spend 2 percent of GDP on defence, and that is what our Minister of Defence, Judith Collins, will be spending in her ninth term in Parliament in the early 2030s. It is a form of insurance, defence. You hope you never use it, but the chances are higher than ever that we might have to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBig countries talk about peace through strength. A better option for a small country like New Zealand is peace through alliances, and this Budget allows New Zealanders to take seriously our ancient Anzac bind. It allows us to be part of a network of like-minded democratic societies committed to defending our freedoms in an uncertain world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWe also need security from thugs at home. Some Government spending, I\u2019ve got to say, just sells itself, and there are few things that are better value than locking up criminals. Nearly half a billion dollars for locking up more crooks sounds expensive, but if you think crims are expensive in jail, imagine them out on the streets, robbing, raping, and murdering. Locking them up is the best money we\u2019ll ever spend. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe Government is investing also in the ultimate resource of human creativity. Better education, including another $140 million on school attendance, will help ensure that we transfer skills from one generation to the next and have fewer lives going off the rails, and when children get to school, the learning support and the maths help will be there. I want to paint a picture. Just imagine how our society could be today if that maths help was available when Grant Robertson was at school: the Budget would be much, much easier\u2014if only.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EParents who save and sacrifice to get their children a better future at a private school pay taxes like anyone else, their children deserve an education like anyone else, and yet they pay more GST on their school fees than they get back in Government subsidy. After 15 years of neglect, we are finally increasing that subsidy and tying it to the actual number of parents who choose private schools, rather than simply capping it and watching their fees slowly reduce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EAll of these policies are possible only because we\u2019re being prepared to live within our means. In those reckless, hungry years under the previous Government, when any problem could be solved by throwing some more of other people\u2019s money at it\u2014or so we were told\u2014I think we had a different approach in this country that had to stop. In fact, if Labour sold T-shirts, they\u2019d probably say, \u201CI voted Labour and all I got was $100 billion worth of debt.\u201D That\u2019s all we got, and for those who blame COVID, the splurge went on far longer than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThis Government has to do what those firms and farms and families had to do in the hungry years of Labour: if we want to spend more, we need to save somewhere else. It makes no sense for Government to borrow money your children will need to pay back, with interest, and then put it in your KiwiSaver so you can invest in shares. I\u2019m sorry, and I know people like free money, but it\u2019s not free: your kids will pay it back, and it makes no sense. It\u2019s just good, basic financial management.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI said that Brooke van Velden saved the taxpayer billions in the Budget for the Government. Today, it\u2019s been revealed the savings of the pay equity changes are $12.8 billion over four years. But I also said something else: I said that she left a fairer, more affordable, and more sustainable pay equity scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262d97b30c13e46bca373b264e2e42785\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Totally wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269fc21d7c46f419fb7a1d81c95be066a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: That is true. What she\u2019s done is she\u2019s ensured that if you want to take a pay equity claim, you\u2019ve got to prove sex-based discrimination. The whole point of it in the beginning, I would have thought, Camilla Belich\u2014and, yes, Brooke van Velden also said that we need to put the emphasis on growing wages back on to the actions that economists tell us grow wages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI heard people say after the changes that they\u2019d been \u201Cworking on pay equity cases for years\u201D. I\u2019ve got a news flash for them: that\u2019s not work; that\u2019s litigation. It doesn\u2019t make the boat go faster. The fact that people thought that taking a pay equity claim was work tells us everything we need to know about why it needed to change: the way the left think and the way the union movement think. There are not only fiscal savings from pay equity changes but there\u2019s a proud declaration that this country, or no other country, will get wealthy by arguing with itself. We get wealthier from investment, innovation, and genuine hard work, such as what this Government and this Budget promotes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EOf course, there are many other savings. The $18.4 million reduction in Radio New Zealand funding should help focus the organisation on high-quality news reporting in the way many of its competitors have been forced to do in a challenging industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority has always been silly. People know energy is expensive and that it\u2019s good to save it. There\u2019s no need for a Government department to do that and, over four years, we\u2019re going to save $56 million there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re ending the mad experiments of K\u0101hui Ako\u2014or communities of learning\u2014which were actually \u201Ccommunities of teachers taking time off\u201D. That will save $375.5 million, and good on Erica Stanford for removing what Hekia Parata started. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ECrazy research grants for so-called climate resilience for M\u0101ori\u2014whatever that really is\u2014and bilingual towns and cities funding is all getting cut to save taxpayers\u2019 money. People who work hard in the real world, treating others well, taking each person as they find them\u2014those people have, in this Budget, some relief and are being taken seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThere are so many savings, I\u2019m going to run out of time. But what I will say is that I\u2019m proud to be on this team, with these parties, bringing down this this Budget. With the savings that ACT has produced, with the sense of hope that we get when people are able to make a difference in their own lives, this little country can keep the promise to all those who have come to its shores for a brighter future. Thank you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf4d0c5d263d4230b1fa85a304c60920\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf4d0c5d263d4230b1fa85a304c60920\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Oceans and Fisheries):\u003C/span\u003E Kiwis, I am holding M\u0101ui-1 crude oil from 1969 because this Budget is the real oil, with $200 million dedicated to accelerate, de-risk, enable your nation\u2014our country, fellow MPs\u2014to take a cornerstone in recovering a foundation industry destroyed by the last regime. With your blessings, Mr Speaker, I\u2019d like to take the lid off and invite the Green Party to sniff it. I daren\u2019t do the same thing to my whanaungas in the M\u0101ori Party\u2014they\u2019ll claim ownership of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe Green Party is likely to say \u201CWe can match it with wind.\u201D, but we don\u2019t want your mung bean, pronoun version of wind. We are here to turn around the fortunes of our country and our nation, and that depends on affordable energy and secure energy. It is a problem that has been inherited after the worst decision made in the history of our nation, delivered by Jacinda, supported by Megan, and, sadly, acquiesced by the good Matua. But to remind me of my ills, I\u2019m wearing a light-blue suit today, and to remind Labour what they could\u2019ve had, I\u2019ve got a red tie. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI would say to Labour that I need to give you speed-dial relationship advice, and my advice to Mr Hipkins is you\u2019re going to kiss a lot of frogs before you find the prince. I doubt that they will be able to find anyone worthy of a partner, because his speech today was an obituary. It was an epitaph. The ideas that they formerly associated with of the proud men and women who were on the farm, digging the coal, digging the gold, doing the mahi\u2014they have been overwhelmed by marginal, frivolous, irrelevant beliefs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EWho will they find to uphold their Government\u2014the M\u0101ori Party? Send a search party. The Green Party? Never\u2014that Budget was a toxic diet of destructiveness for New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s nothing wrong with aspiring to become wealthy. The Green Party stood against that. There\u2019s absolutely nothing wrong with teaching our children to stand up and, by the sweat of thy brow, look after yourselves, and of all the people they purport to represent in strugglers\u2019 gully, don\u2019t lecture us about school lunches. Wake up early and make your kids a lunch yourself. When they\u2019re not at school, who\u2019s feeding them? And if they\u2019re not being fed, you don\u2019t deserve the munificence of the State.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EOur social welfare Minister has laid down the law. If you\u2019re 17, 18, 19, or 20 and you\u2019re not willing to stand up and join the ranks of your fellow New Zealanders, prepare to own your own life. Prepare to find a solution to your own problems. We are no longer going to pay you to stay on the couch or be on meth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s the appetite that Kiwis have, because we\u2019ve inherited not only a set of fiscal problems; we have a cultural problem in our country where far too many Kiwis believe it is the State\u2019s obligation\u2014and their right to demand it\u2014that we meet the cost of their lifestyles. No, it is not\u2014if you do not change in Kaikohe your lifestyle, the cops are coming to get you, and if they take you to court, we\u2019ll build another prison for you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI\u2019m sick to death, as a leading M\u0101ori identity in this Parliament, of not seeing a quality of leadership from either iwi or hap\u016B to not only eradicate the gangs but to get the old type of leadership that defined the M\u0101ori community: wake up early, look after your children, look after yourselves with a balance of faith, and no more hakas of victimhood. Don\u2019t tell this House that the reason the haka exists here is because of victim ideology of colonisation. There are lots of people of my descent in this House who are proud to own the traditions and obligations and duties of being a parliamentarian, which is why we are giving our speeches on the Budget today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s think about security. We need a deeper ethic of service, obligation, and duty, and let\u2019s give our Minister of Defence a hearty round of applause. After many years of deprecating and marginalising the tradition of service and the role of the military, she has brought that back to a position of elevated status. We need to celebrate these institutions, which this Budget builds on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EBut security is not only about men and women in uniform; it\u2019s about having fiscal resilience, and fiscal resilience does require us to continually manage debt in such a way that it expands the private sector whilst confining the public sector as to what it should be doing. There will be more cuts, and then the question should be asked: what exactly should the State be doing? If we cannot generate the surplus\u2014if we cannot continually deliver budgetary surplus\u2014then we have to address what should the State be doing, because the State over the last three to five years has expanded into various spheres of our economic life, where it no longer belongs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThat takes us to the regulatory reform. That\u2019s why we are repealing the excesses of the Resource Management Act, that\u2019s why we will be fixing up the Wildlife Act, and that\u2019s why my leader, Winston Peters, in negotiating with the National Party, brought forward the fast-track legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIt is pitiful. I come from the Tai Tokerau\u2014Northland. Three projects. Number one, a potential marina in a very benighted area of the Bay of Islands, where P has gone mad amongst local people. Number two, taking sand out of a virtual Sahara desert\u2014i.e., the coast of Northland, on the East Coast. Number three, the development of a dry dock facility. What do I hear from the North? These are the voices that this Government cannot tolerate\u2014stopping, halting, confusing, undermining. If we do not have projects that are permitted and accelerated which generate jobs and increase our productivity, where will our wealth come from? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe wealth, I say to Mr Hipkins, does not come from doing each other\u2019s dirty washing; the wealth comes from using our natural resources, mining our natural resources, utilising our fisheries resource, and boosting the footprint of our farming\u2014and stop intimidating Kiwis who are willing to invest. This is a pro-investment Budget, through our depreciation. Stop scaremongering that New Zealand can no longer grow its food-generative capacity, its food-productive capacity, because of climate change. We were given in the Paris accord, as a food-producing nation, the option of not including food-related emissions. That\u2019s what the law says at the UN, and stand by when we move forward to the next election, associated with the party that we belong to\u2014you\u2019ll hear much more about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI want to focus on a number of the other initiatives that really are important to us as Kiwis. At the pith of this Budget is a challenge and a question for Kiwis: if we cannot afford the current size of the State, then are we willing to make the hard trade-offs? Mining gas and oil is a hard trade-off. Do you want the lights on? Don\u2019t seek to convince Kiwis you\u2019re going to keep the lights on by more sunlight and more wind. We, whether we like it or not, because of the wretched decision of destroying the gas industry four or five years ago, are the only Western nation that I know of that is transitioning to coal\u2014the damaging outcome of decisions made without contemplating their consequences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThat is why the $200 million that I\u2019ve announced today is needed to derisk\u2014and it\u2019s sad that I should say this, because we\u2019re not Venezuela. We\u2019re New Zealanders, proud of our heritage and capable of bringing a number eight wire mentality to solve our problems, but too many foreign direct investors no longer have confidence in our country. Why? Because they look back and see how one decision could destroy a whole industry. But when they see the Government as a fellow shareholder, a fellow investor with a cornerstone right, they know that it\u2019s is going to be a very bad Government and permanently scarred Government, or, indeed, a Government that disappears for ever, that willingly destroys that investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s extraordinary that you and I, fellow MPs, are reduced to encouraging people to come to New Zealand because of their fear of our worthiness, our integrity, and our reliability, but we should not overlook the fact that so much of the resources of the country were developed in a co-investment model. Now, we ought always to be very, very vigilant that we do not use in a reckless, profligate fashion our cheque book. But the story of our nation has been co-investment, and we, through this decision, are going to make sure: number one, that the lights stay on; number two, that energy is affordable; and, number three, that energy is secure, and if it comes to pass that fossil fuels are required in the short to medium or even in the long term, that is the price that we have to pay to ensure that we do not believe falsely in how quickly alternative technologies can develop in order for us to make the journey in terms of carbon emissions, because we cannot destroy our economy through that journey. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThat is why I\u2019m intensely proud to belabour the fact in respect of this $200 million, and I know it will be attacked. But you may not know that next Thursday, the Green Party travellers are going to have a protest outside the ANZ Bank. They have decided that banks should no longer fund coal, minerals, and gas. These unelected fellow travellers of the Green Party, possessed of some false creed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281b49105d16b4f989de70f7370f48367\u0022\u003EFrancisco Hernandez\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s called capitalism\u2014it\u2019s called markets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218c06c1355b44db6a9ed67f22fcc6352\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019ll tell you what, I\u2019m going to be there the day before, and I will be there with my megaphone because the banks of New Zealand need to know that you don\u2019t have the moral authority to de-bank farming. You don\u2019t have the moral authority to destroy regional New Zealand, and the Green Party and their fellow travellers\u2014under no circumstances whatsoever should we permit or should we encourage that destructiveness, because of their conceit and the false superiority that they bring to these debates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ENow, let me talk about a topic near and dear to my leader, who, by the way, said to me \u201CHave you finished your discussions with Nicola Willis?\u201D, at about a quarter past one. \u201CI have.\u201D \u201COh, very good. You\u2019re giving the speech. Well, you like to challenge yourself and give speeches without notes, Shane. Let\u2019s see how good you really are.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe one thing he said was \u201CPlease talk about rail.\u201D Now, I know what attracts adverse and toxic reactions to certain lost souls, but, folks, rail will continue to occupy a place of position. But we need to put the executive of KiwiRail on notice: if the Crown, on behalf of the taxpayers, is continually going to throw dough, we must see results, and if we\u2019re not seeing results, don\u2019t just blame the workers. We\u2019re putting a new board in place, and that board will have the acid on them to ensure that that executive leadership team delivers; if not, consequences will most certainly flow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ELet me now talk about some of the environmental changes that are adverted to in our Budget, not the least of which is the money that\u2019s put aside to meet the costs of the new Resource Management Act (RMA) system. The new RMA system, folks, is based on property rights. It\u2019s based on expanding the liberty of asset owners to enjoy not only the fruits of their labour but the fruits of holding certain rights of ownership, and not having too many nosy parkers\u2014not having too many people who are not directly affected by decisions\u2014hampering the ability of local communities and local businesses to thrive. That is going to take some millions of dollars to introduce, but in the period of time that that final product is introduced, we\u2019re making other changes. We are going to ensure that aquaculture, mining, quarrying, and water utilisation are not held captive and not squandered as people march off to the court, never to get a result within a decent period of time. Those are the practical challenges, and those are the practical responses that this Budget is funding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe other thing that needs to be borne in mind through this Budget is that when we do find opportunities, let\u2019s invite foreign direct investment to come into our country. Let\u2019s ensure that the test is one where Kiwis, our quality of life, and our values are uppermost in the minds of the officials as those decisions are made, and stop blaming foreign direct investment in the mining sector for things that may have gone wrong and stop stigmatising such a sector when, every day, my opponents come using technology totally reliant on mining\u2014a level of hypocrisy we see that in an ideological sense beggars belief. Foreign direct investment is a key pillar and an important input to the future of our nation, providing it\u2019s on the basis that it enriches, enhances, and expands the independence and productivity of Kiwis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe whole concept of investment has been supported through our depreciation announcements today. If you want to expedite productivity and if you want to find solutions of a scientific, technological nature for climate change challenges, depreciation is a tremendous input. We know we\u2019ve virtually reached peak tree position. Granted, planting trees is a key contribution to our climate change journey, but my colleagues on this side of the House realise that land must also produce food. So to the vegetable growers, please rest assured that the Ministers on this side of the House are going to ensure that you\u2019re not taxed and you\u2019re not regulated out of existence. We want more food produced in our own country, including an expansion of dairy, by relying on science and technology and cleverer utilisation of water resources. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EOf course, I\u2019ve had a rather charmed position in this Budget because my leader negotiated the $1.2 billion at the point of the Government\u2019s consummation. But money that\u2019s allocated via the Regional Infrastructure Fund will continue to support the underlying principles of our Budget, and\u2014to remind Kiwis\u2014what are they? Growth, common-sense outcomes, security, and a sense of responsibility that you are both the author and the inheritor, but\u2014most importantly\u2014you are responsible for what happens in your life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThat is why I\u2019ve got no tolerance for the haka of victimhood. That is why my leader and I see a very bright future when politicians stand up and reclaim from the woke tribe the ability to use our own oil and our own gas to keep the lights on, and this [Holds up the bottle of oil] genuinely\u2014as is the Budget\u2014is the real oil. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022 data-id=\u00220fceb2126f0444279429ba10b541fe79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220fceb2126f0444279429ba10b541fe79\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. E ara ake nei au ki te whakapuaki whakaaro ki te iwi M\u0101ori, ng\u0101 mea noho ki te k\u0101inga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to express some thoughts to the M\u0101ori people, those that are at home.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EIf we look back in this country\u2019s history, there\u2019s never been a Budget that delivered what M\u0101ori needed, not in the light of the M\u0101ori history in this country, nor in the light of the M\u0101ori future in this country. No Budget has ever taken into account the M\u0101ori-Crown relationship. No Budget has ever recognised the contribution that M\u0101ori will make to the future of this country and to invest in the 1\u00A0million-plus M\u0101ori of today\u2014yes, e te iwi, the 1 million-plus M\u0101ori of today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EThe census told us that the M\u0101ori population was just under a million, but they also told us that they only managed to count around 85 percent of us, with this meaning that the 15 percent of M\u0101ori who are out there somewhere would naturally take us above 1 million\u2014the 1 million M\u0101ori in Aotearoa today. So we are at least 20 percent of the country\u2019s population. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EThis is important. Don\u2019t ever let anyone downplay that number, because in a democracy, the numbers count, as does proportionality. So if we consider the Budget being discussed today, $180\u00A0billion of your money, e te wh\u0101nau, and we consider proportionality, it stands that 20 percent of the population who are M\u0101ori should expect to see an investment of 20 percent of that $180 billion made in their name. That\u2019s $36 billion, e te wh\u0101nau\u2014$36 billion. Don\u2019t forget that figure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ERemember, the numbers count and the numbers can also hold those in Government to account. So $36 billion, that\u2019s what we should be looking for in this Budget\u2014$36 billion of M\u0101ori and Te Tiriti accountability from the Government. If we look a little closer at the demographics, at our young M\u0101ori under the age of 27, they are one in every third person in the country. You see, we are a young people. Of the 1 million M\u0101ori, 70 percent, or 700,000, are under 40 years of age, and 50 percent, or 500,000 of the 1 million M\u0101ori, are under the age of 25. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EYou see, we have a strong future in this country\u2014the numbers tell us so\u2014yet no Government has had the courage to deliberately and intentionally invest in us. Will today be that day? Well, I highly doubt it, but let\u2019s not worry about today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EI accept that, for many, it\u2019s hard to make sense of the tensions that exist in the M\u0101ori-Crown relationship. I also accept that it\u2019s not entirely their fault. They were never taught that history. It was purposefully obscured beneath colonial myth, with one clear intention: to erase any trace of the M\u0101ori people and to exonerate the colonial settlers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ERight up until 1860, M\u0101ori remained dominant in economic endeavour and development in Aotearoa. M\u0101ori were busy organising, developing, and expanding our own economic future. M\u0101ori imported the first plough in 1820, quickly adapted to new breeds of animals and crops, and steadily moved to import technologies such as the flax and flour mills, whilst simultaneously continuing to export those raw materials, and all of this was before the signing of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EBy the time the colonial settlers arrived in 1840, M\u0101ori had already shifted to large-scale agriculture and horticulture, and were capable of feeding tens of thousands of people. As it follows, as the settler population ballooned, that\u2019s exactly what they did as he tohu o te manaakitanga [a mark of hospitality]. You see, the farming backbone of the New Zealand economy was established in the 1800s by te iwi M\u0101ori, and if this conversation has peaked your interest in some way, then I suggest you go and take a look at any iwi Treaty settlement account and it will have a record of that iwi\u2019s historical production capacity and value.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ENow, lastly on this topic, the 20 years following the signing of Te Tiriti o Waitangi between 1840 and 1860 is a period known as the golden era of M\u0101ori enterprise, and up until that time, M\u0101ori retained complete economic independence and, indeed, economic dominance in Aotearoa. All of this economic development was enabled and underpinned by the retention of our land and natural resources and it also positioned M\u0101ori to lead the economic development of the new, emerging country of New Zealand, but our t\u012Bpuna could never have foreseen how the next 40 years would play out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EAs the military invasion of Aotearoa commenced in 1860 at Waitara in Taranaki, M\u0101ori would be besieged by two decades of war, theft, destruction, displacement, and imprisonment by military and legislative force. This invasion would ultimately wrench all of that economic development, its capital, its equity, and  its potential out of M\u0101ori control and transfer it to P\u0101keh\u0101 control, and the lion\u2019s share of that work was executed between the years of 1860 and 1885. The following 15 years would be characterised by a deep, deep post-invasion depression for M\u0101ori, and by the turn of the 1900s, we would be deemed a dying race, with a population less than 40,000\u2014\u0101e r\u0101, e te iwi [that\u2019s right, people], less than 40,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ESo the fact that we are here and we are more than a million today is cause for celebration. But although we have endured, we have never recovered economically. The land and the resources that once underpinned our economic independence and the future is now in the hands of the Government, corporations\u2014both domestic and international\u2014and the private citizens of this country. Although this House would rather that we forget these events and lock them away in the colonial history, there are even more glaring examples in our contemporary history, none more glaring that the example of the disproportionate post-war economic advantaging of the P\u0101keh\u0101 and the economic disadvantaging of M\u0101ori\u2014actions that would systematise and entrench the economic imbalance and would set the socio-economic scene for the next 100 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EBy 1950, P\u0101keh\u0101 returned servicemen had received around a million acres\u2014just short of a million acres\u2014of farmland. They\u2019d been given it free of charge for their service in World War I and World War II. They would then be given low- and no-interest loans to build their family homes on those farms, they would be given grants to stock and equip those farms, and they would be given perpetual subsidies to underwrite the new family farming economy of the new New Zealand, lovingly known still as the backbone of the country\u2019s economy. By the end of this privileging, they had received almost a million acres of farmable land and had been advanced more than \u00A328 million in grants and low or no-interest loans. This, naturally, positioned them well to exploit new opportunities in the emerging new modern society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ETheir M\u0101ori counterparts, however, would not do so well. M\u0101ori returned servicemen, despite the promises of inclusion, would be excluded from all of these initiatives. They would be told to return to their iwi and to their rural homes, and seek support there. They would be excluded from the post-war PTSD rehabilitation programmes, excluding them from receiving the returned serviceman pension, and they were even excluded from the RSA. This was not the promise of equal citizenship that they\u2019d signed up to; this was the reality of second-class citizenship in their own land, and as the engine of the new, young New Zealand wound itself up, M\u0101ori found themselves firmly fixed at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder, with no economic leverage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s truly a shame that the Governments of the 1940s and 1950s couldn\u2019t bring themselves to make good on their promises that they made to M\u0101ori to honour and support the commitment made by M\u0101ori by participating in those wars in good faith for the promise of equal citizenship, and for enduring the ravages of colonisation through the 1800s. Indeed, as I consider the long list of anti-M\u0101ori, anti-working class actions this Government has taken in only 18 months, it feels as though we have been taken straight back to the 1940s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EYou know, this was the Crown\u2019s opportunity to begin to restore its own mana, to act in the same good faith towards its Tiriti partner, and begin the journey towards Tiriti justice for all to make a small amends for the devastation they had inflicted on the M\u0101ori people. Sadly, this was not to be. Instead, they doubled down and they tripled down. They began to engineer social and economic conditions that would entrap M\u0101ori in intergenerational poverty to for ever serve as the blue-collar workers in the new little piece of Britain in the South Pacific. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EThis is the story and the nature of economic privilege in Aotearoa: a privilege afforded to P\u0101keh\u0101 and a privilege stolen from M\u0101ori\u2014not from one generation of M\u0101ori, but from every generation of M\u0101ori. And now, as we return to this year, to sit here and listen to those who have been economically privileged as to how they intend to spend the $180 billion of the country\u2019s money derived from its core assets\u2014stolen assets\u2014with all of its history, yes, tensions do indeed rise and, yes, in this term of Government, those tensions have indeed boiled over. But it\u2019s for good reason, no doubt, because despite all we have learnt, despite all we have discovered together, and despite all we have jointly agreed to, not one Budget in this country\u2019s history has ever had the courage to properly address the disproportionate distribution of economic privilege in this country and the everlasting inequities and burden suffered by te iwi M\u0101ori as a consequence. The last Budget returned us to the 1940s, and this Budget, no doubt, will return us to the 1800s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EBut let me get back to talking about the marvellous 1 million out there that are M\u0101ori and about the future. M\u0101ori are an undeniable part of the future of this country. In our young people under the age of 27, we are one in three of the population\u2014one in three\u2014and we reproduce at a higher rate than anyone else, and so we are, in fact, a numerical inevitability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2b03e4378a84c9aa57c9efbba2fd837\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Skiting! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e52733a050f4371b105a7a0a2e082c0\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS\u003C/span\u003E: Those young M\u0101ori of the future, all of whom are alive and kicking today, I might add, for the sake of the wellbeing of the country\u2019s future economy, must be well supported today, and, sadly, they are not. We\u2019re currently 20 percent of the population, steadily moving towards being 30 percent, yet when it comes to the distribution of Budget funds, M\u0101ori are lucky to receive 1 percent. In a democracy, this seems absurd, and if I consider the future economic requirements of a stable country, I could easily call this economic sabotage\u2014failing to invest now for the needs of tomorrow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EYoung M\u0101ori will comprise 30 percent of the future workforce of this country. In many industries, this is already the case. A critical factor of the productivity of the future workforce and economy is how highly trained and skilled, or not, those young M\u0101ori are when they arrive in those workplaces, and given that under the current settings, young M\u0101ori have amongst the lowest education and training achievement rates in mainstream delivery, this clearly demonstrates that the need for greater investment and autonomy is now. Indeed, if this Government is truly committed to a brighter economic future for the whole country, then you must invest in M\u0101ori today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, this aspirational view is far from the lived reality for M\u0101ori today. The reality for M\u0101ori today is no investment. The reality for M\u0101ori today is abolishing, it is cuts, it is gutting, it is disestablishment\u2014the list goes on and on and on\u2014and on a more serious note, and a note of concern, the attitude is one of \u201CYour language doesn\u2019t count, your culture doesn\u2019t count\u2014you don\u2019t count.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EEngari kaua r\u0101 t\u0101tou e m\u0101harahara, e te iwi M\u0101ori. Kaua r\u0101 t\u0101tou e m\u0101harahara. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E[But let us not worry, M\u0101ori people. Let us not worry.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EWe count, all right. The more than a million M\u0101ori\u2014we count, all right. We count more than people in this House like to admit. M\u0101ori\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf9a15d6abad46c3899bce1747292564\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Most of us don\u2019t support you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224593378c146641f3a7bd12d302205e76\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS\u003C/span\u003E: To the 200,000 M\u0101ori out there who took up a pen and voted for us, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EE te iwi M\u0101ori, we count in the future of this country. These young M\u0101ori need support, not more policing and profiling. These young M\u0101ori need support, not Ministers that ignore court rulings. These young M\u0101ori need support, not justice reforms that willingly increase the overrepresentation of M\u0101ori in the justice system, filling up prisons. They need billions invested into educational facilities that help them succeed as M\u0101ori, not billions invested into mega-prisons, as the current Government would have us follow and believe. They need billions invested into helping them secure a home for their wh\u0101nau, not a billion-dollar gutting of K\u0101inga Ora whilst homelessness increases to 53 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EThey need social supports that help them succeed in life, to raise healthy, strong families, wh\u0101nau, and tamariki that is tailored to their needs, not the disestablishment of Te P\u016Btahitanga, of Wh\u0101nau Ora\u2014the dismantling of one of the most successful M\u0101ori social investment programmes of any Government in the history of this country, and the last line of defence for those that fall through the cracks of poverty into homelessness. This is not what young M\u0101ori need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EYoung M\u0101ori of today need investment in their future. Young M\u0101ori need training and education that meets their needs, not one-size-fits-all delivery. This has failed them for 150 years, so why would you persist? They need supported opportunities into employment to succeed in life, not record high unemployment, record high rents, or a record high cost of living. They need and deserve a $36 billion investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EWhat young M\u0101ori need is a Government courageous enough to reconcile, with complete truth, accountability, and honour, its M\u0101ori-Crown relationship and the rightful place of Te Tiriti o Waitangi in Aotearoa in 2025. They deserve a Government bold enough to invest in their future for the good of the whole country, they deserve a Government compassionate enough to recognise its own shortcomings and to adjust the direction accordingly, and they deserve a Government bold enough to invest in them for the value proposition that they present to the future of the nation. To all of those baby boomers out there, I would encourage you to vote for these young M\u0101ori, for they will uphold your retirement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EThis is what young M\u0101ori need, this is what all M\u0101ori need, and this is what the nation needs, as we debate and consider the future of our collective k\u0101inga, of Aotearoa New Zealand, the place where every person has the right to call it home because Te Tiriti o Waitangi affords them that right\u2014that right, that safety, that k\u0101inga. I hope we all have the courage to challenge ourselves to think of the needs of others before the needs of ourselves, to think of the needs of those who are yet to be born instead of the needs of those who have so much already, and the needs of those who stand in the truth of the collective history of our country, not the imaginary history of our country. I implore us all to draw on this courage and to take up the challenge to think of the needs of others and to consider the future that our tamariki and mokopuna will inherit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira kei ng\u0101 w\u0101 k\u0101inga, whakat\u0101rewahia ake nei te mihi o te ng\u0101kau. T\u0113nei m\u0101tou te t\u016B w\u0101tea nei i roto i t\u0113nei Whare me \u014Dna karawhiutanga katoa. K\u0101ore m\u0101tou m\u014D te hoki waewae tutuki. K\u0101ore m\u0101tou m\u014D te whakarongo ki ng\u0101 pahupahu a t\u0113n\u0101 taha, a t\u0113n\u0101 taha; ng\u0101 oati, ng\u0101 k\u012B taurangi e mea nei ka manaakitia t\u0101tou i roto i ng\u0101 tau katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ETirohia te huarahi o muri; whakaarohia te huarahi o mua. Ko t\u0101tou te kotahi miriona M\u0101ori o te motu. E t\u016B, e ara, k\u014Dkiritia \u014D t\u0101tou wh\u0101nau ki te p\u014Dtitanga \u0101 t\u0113r\u0101 tau. Tukuna t\u0113nei hunga kia hoki atu ki te puna o mahara, ki te puna o whakaaro, \u0101ta matapaki ake ai me p\u0113hea t\u0101 r\u0101tou whakaratarata i te iwi kia hau mai ki te kakara, ki te kawa r\u0101nei o t\u0101 r\u0101tou e k\u014Drero nei. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ET\u0101ku e t\u016B nei ki te iwi M\u0101ori, e kore t\u0101tou e heke. E kore te k\u0101kano i ruia mai i Rangi\u0101tea e ngaro. E kore t\u0101tou e hoki m\u0101 te waewae tutuki. E kore e \u0101kina e te hau, e te karawhiu marangai r\u0101nei o te moana. Ka t\u016B \u0101tea ko te iwi M\u0101ori, he toka t\u016B moana. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EHe toka t\u016B moana n\u014D runga i te whenua, n\u014D \u014D t\u0101tou m\u0101tua t\u012Bpuna. T\u0113nei hunga i t\u0101wharautia ki te rau aroha o te Tiriti o Waitangi, i tahuri mai ki te ngau tuar\u0101 me te k\u014Dhuru i \u014D t\u0101tou t\u012Bpuna. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EE t\u016B, e ara, maranga mai r\u0101 e te iwi M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EKei te P\u012Bka, t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E[And so to those at home, suspend the greetings of the heart. We hereby stand free within this House and all of its abuses. We are not going to give up lightly. We are not about to listen to the mutterings of each side, the oaths and promises that state that we will all be looked after, year after year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ELook to the path behind; consider the path ahead. We are the 1 million M\u0101ori of the nation. Stand up, rise up, take our families to the voting stations next year. Send these people back to the source of memory, the source of thought to carefully examine how they might gain the confidence of the people so that they come into the sphere of their fragrance or the odour of what they are talking about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EWhat I would say, who stands here before the iwi M\u0101ori, we will not decline. The seed that was sown from Rangi\u0101tea will not be lost. We will not give up lightly. We will not be assaulted by the wind, or the lashing rain of the ocean. The M\u0101ori people will stand free, a rock unconquered by the sea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EA rock from upon land, from our ancestors, undefeated by the ocean. These people who were sheltered by the compassion of the Treaty of Waitangi, who then turned to bite our ancestors in the back, and murder them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EStand up, arise, rise up, M\u0101ori people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, thank you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002275ef2685d2f34e4c9782c7ff79cedb7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275ef2685d2f34e4c9782c7ff79cedb7e\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That this debate be now adjourned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022063886e4b98047e7bcecbd8248c7ec21\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225d42860ff4d84cf3b30861e22f8160e4\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3610a7cc05941e48dcb5a1ac76de399\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3610a7cc05941e48dcb5a1ac76de399\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That urgency be accorded the first reading of the Appropriation (2024/25 Supplementary Estimates) Bill; the introduction and passing through all stages of the Taxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2); the first reading and referral to a select committee of the Regulatory Standards Bill; the introduction, first reading, and referral to a select committee of the Building and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill; the introduction and passing through all stages of the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill, the Social Security (Mandatory Reviews) Amendment Bill, the Invest New Zealand Bill, the Rates Rebate Amendment Bill, and the Patents Amendment Bill; the introduction, first reading, and referral to a select committee of the Public Finance Amendment Bill, the Judicature (Timeliness) Legislation Amendment Bill, and the Legal Services (Distribution of Special Fund) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe Government is moving urgency in relation to all of these measures for a range of different reasons. In relation to the Taxation (Budget Measures) Bill, as indicated by the Minister of Finance in her speech today, there are changes being made to give effect to the Investment Boost scheme, which takes effect as of today, once the legislation is passed, and the KiwiSaver changes mentioned in the Minister of Finance\u2019s speech. The Regulatory Standards Bill is being sent to a select committee for further consideration. The Building and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill gives effect to the Government\u2019s commitments around granny flats and will go to a select committee for further consideration and is part of the growth agenda of the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe two social assistance pieces of legislation give effect to savings committed to through Budget 2024. The Invest New Zealand Bill establishes Invest New Zealand, to take effect from 1 July and is, again, a key priority following the Budget. The Rates Rebate Amendment Bill gives effect to commitments made in the Budget around further assistance to low-income superannuitants with gold cards to get financial assistance. The Patents Amendment Bill is, again, a growth-enhancing initiative which makes a small change to the very out-of-date Patents Act 1953 to benefit\u2014it, essentially, tweaks to benefit some companies that use that Act. The Public Finance Amendment Bill gives effect to commitments made by the Government, upon taking office, to change the Act to allow for greater transparency, and the two justice-related bills give effect to Budget savings. Both of those two bills are being sent to select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThere is a lot of business to get through, much of it\u2014in fact, all of it\u2014related to the Budget and the growth agenda. We\u2019re looking forward to making progress on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002292e6b145a6d54cc480d714c7008b363c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That urgency be accorded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002229c67cdbfb3a498cb63c6c0d8d0cbe2e\u0022\u003EIntroduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dc4d515ce7b341958edb8c5d0923a400\u0022\u003EIntroduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022efd75a9b41ea4b1ab8169f2b56f64fb0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022efd75a9b41ea4b1ab8169f2b56f64fb0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I understand it\u2019s the intention of the Government to introduce bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022c574973ee3fb485a9b193b6fe291e520\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c574973ee3fb485a9b193b6fe291e520\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ETaxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2), introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EBuilding and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ESocial Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ESocial Security (Mandatory Reviews) Amendment Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EInvest New Zealand Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ERates Rebate Amendment Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EPatents Amendment Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EPublic Finance Amendment Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EJudicature (Timeliness) Legislation Amendment Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ELegal Services (Distribution of Special Fund) Amendment Bill, introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b93c7bab589249039d8f3173a2ff4cfa\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2024/25 Supplementary Estimates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002299562b094bf64321b0a608168af074f1\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00226515468b25254ccab045acc800e19405\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226515468b25254ccab045acc800e19405\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Appropriation (2024/25 Supplementary Estimates) Bill be now read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022641a22a4adaa4dd2aae02039d45dbf18\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022641a22a4adaa4dd2aae02039d45dbf18\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220e5fa781a4524d9f8baeb6728d5e4876\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Appropriation (2024/25 Supplementary Estimates) Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000325\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222ef3338b34bd43d282a6abbabf5ac3f2\u0022\u003ETaxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220c1bdbfb66f54240a25891af5dd619cd\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002206b85c9942074b7eb10275505ec3561c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206b85c9942074b7eb10275505ec3561c\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Taxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259dcd2f2501b499b9e4ea24d59730c6d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on Parliament\u2019s website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210cacc09664c4705bd7f51f5fbb5b2fb\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Taxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2) be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThis bill contains three tax measures announced in Budget 2025: the new Investment Boost tax incentive to grow our economy, changes to KiwiSaver settings to encourage New Zealanders to save more for their first home or their retirement, and changes to Working for Families to better target the scheme at low to middle income families. The reason for it being called a No. 2 bill is simply that a bill of the same name was introduced after Budget 2024, because this is a Government that knows that tax relief is always welcomed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, let me start with Investment Boost\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247e4fa725af944a195bd3857978e61b2\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268d71d5b21eb444697846a8f133afbbe\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Madam Speaker\u2014a tax incentive that will lift capital investment and increase productivity. New Zealand has long been recognised for its low rates of capital intensity. That is, we lack the machinery, tools, and technology per worker that other countries have. That has an impact on the country\u2019s economic performance, as more capital per worker means higher productivity and it means higher wages; it means more competitive businesses. So Investment Boost is a policy to increase capital investment in New Zealand. It allows New Zealand businesses to immediately deduct 20 percent of the cost of qualifying assets, on top of depreciation. That means a much lower tax bill in the year they purchase or create or construct the asset compared to the current rules. The remaining book value of the asset is depreciated at normal rates. Loading deductions into the first year means that cash flow arising from investments is more favourable. The present value of the investment is greater; the after-tax returns are higher. It is good news all around. More investment opportunities stack up financially, so more will be made. This will help the cash flow of businesses already investing and it will encourage more investment from those who aren\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EAll businesses, regardless of size, will be eligible for Investment Boost at the full rate of 20 percent. Farmers, tradies, manufacturers, small-business people\u2014all. There is no cap on the value of new investments a business can claim Investment Boost on, and there is no cap on the number of assets a business can claim for. Investment Boost is generally available for all assets that are depreciable for tax purposes, as well as a number of assets that are allowed depreciationlike deductions. It applies to commercial buildings, but it excludes land, residential buildings, and fixed-life and tangible assets. The main proviso is that assets cannot have previously been used in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EInvestment Boost starts today. We do not want businesses to delay investments while waiting for the new rules to apply, and that is one of the reasons this bill is being debated under urgency. The Government did consider other options for driving productivity, including a reduction in the company tax rate. It soon became clear, however\u2014and I encourage members to read the regulatory impact statement on this one\u2014that dollar for dollar, Investment Boost has more impact on business investment than a reduction in the company tax rate, as it only applies ties to new investments and not those made in the past. Over 20 years, Investment Boost is expected to lift New Zealand\u2019s capital stock by 1.6 percent, GDP by 1 percent, and wages by 1.5 percent. These are orders of magnitude, not precise values. But officials estimate that roughly half the impacts happen in the first five years. Investment Boost is good for Kiwi businesses and it\u2019s good for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI want to read you this, Madam Speaker, from that regulatory impact statement I referred to, because members may ask who this policy really benefits, and I want to read you the view of the non-partisan Government officials. They say, \u201COur view is the majority of the increase in national income from this policy would flow to workers. And this increase would come from a combination of higher wages and higher employment, and we therefore expect that the benefits of this policy will be spread broadly across a wide range of New Zealanders.\u201D So I dare members opposite to oppose this move for New Zealand\u2019s workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThis bill also proposes changes to KiwiSaver to encourage New Zealanders to save more, while also making the scheme more fiscally sustainable. The default employer and employee contribution rates in KiwiSaver are currently 3 percent of salaries and wages. These rates will rise to 3.5 percent from 1 April 2026, followed by a further increase to 4 percent from 1 April 2028. In addition, employer matching and the Government contribution will be extended to 16- and 17-year-olds. This will encourage more young people to adopt a savings habit and help them build a deposit for their first home. The Government, of course, recognises not everyone will be in a position to increase savings every year\u2014it depends on their own particular circumstances\u2014and we believe in choice. Employees will therefore be able to opt down to the current 3 percent rate and still be matched by their employer at that lower rate. Their contributions will be reset to the default rate after 12 months, but they can opt down again if they wish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EBudget 2025 ensures KiwiSaver remains affordable and sustainable by lowering and better targeting the Government contribution. Without changes, members, the Government contribution is expected to cost an average of $1.2 billion a year over the next four years. Under this bill, the annual Government contribution will be halved to 25c for each dollar a member contributes each year, up to a maximum of $260.72. In addition, the Government contribution will no longer be paid to people with an annual taxable income of more than $180,000, because they do not need it. These changes to the Government contribution will apply from 1 July 2025 and they do not affect the current year\u2019s Government contribution, which will be paid out in July and August.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe third tax measure in this bill makes fiscally neutral changes to Working for Families to better target low and middle income families with children. Working for Families has a family income threshold, above which family tax credit and in-work tax credit payments are gradually reduced. This bill raises the family income threshold from $42,700, where it has been since 2018, non-adjusted. This bill adjusts it to $44,900 and increases the abatement rate of reduction from 27c for each dollar above the threshold to 27.5c. As a result, families with incomes just above the new threshold will get an extra $23 per fortnight from Working for Families, with this additional support reducing gradually as family income rises. This will also increase the gap between those on a benefit and those who are working, because our Government believes that work should pay and you should always be better off in work than on a benefit. An estimated 142,000 families with children will receive $14 more per fortnight on average, and the vast majority of these families will have incomes below $100,000 a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe cost of this extra support, members, is met from income-targeting the first year of the Best Start tax credit. From 1 April next year, the first year will no longer be universal; it\u2019ll be income tested, exactly the same way the second and third years already are, at exactly the same level of income testing. Let me stress: the change to Best Start only applies for births on or after 1 April 2026. So no family will see an actual reduction in their current payments, and you\u2019ve all got time to make babies yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThese are meaningful, forward-looking tax changes that will help boost wages, savings, and growth. These are changes that will help families who most need financial support. These are changes that will not only grow New Zealand and create opportunities in the here and now but they will set this country up for a better, better future. New Zealanders will be better off for this bill passing through this House. And anyone who opposes this bill may ask themselves why they oppose growth, why they oppose workers, and why they oppose savings. We\u2019re about to find out if people like that exist in this House. If they do, they\u2019ll be answering to the New Zealanders they are letting down. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022feac2581d6584b868c59f12a0053eb2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022feac2581d6584b868c59f12a0053eb2f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question\u2014[Interruption] Quiet now! You\u2019ve had enough applause. The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u002267d494e37756416cbbdf1bc1a7ec3a3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267d494e37756416cbbdf1bc1a7ec3a3e\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The person who will be answering to the New Zealand public, to New Zealand workers, is the person who has balanced this Budget on the backs of working women, on the backs of families, and on the backs of low-paid workers who rely on that Government contribution to KiwiSaver to save for their old age. Those people are all worse off because of this Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWhen this Government Minister, the Minister of Finance, says that this is a Budget that is going for growth, let\u2019s remember who is enabling that growth. When she says some of these Budget moves are fiscally neutral, are they fiscally neutral to the families who are paying for them? Are they fiscally neutral to the women who are paying for them? Are they fiscally neutral to the low-paid workers who will now have less when they retire? It\u2019s an interesting use of \u201Cfiscally neutral\u201D to describe it as a good thing when it hurts so many people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, in terms of these tax measures which have been introduced in this bill, there\u2019s a pretty interesting tax measure with the Investment Boost, and some large promises have been made with respect to that Investment Boost. In fact, the large promise is\u2014as the Minister of Finance pointed out\u2014that over the long term, the benefits would flow through in terms of increased growth, increases in labour productivity and in wages, which would materialise over a long time frame. But, in the short term, we\u2019ve got women, we\u2019ve got families, we\u2019ve got low-paid workers who are suffering. That is a pretty grand promise. We\u2019re only going to see the reality of it in 20 years\u2019 time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, as it turns out, we do acknowledge, of course, the problem with labour productivity in this country. We do acknowledge, of course, the problem with capital intensity in this country. We do know that in order to become more productive, we need better tools within businesses. So doing something in this space is a good idea. But the interesting thing is the options that were analysed, and there are only two of them\u2014only two. One was this Investment Boost, the 20 percent immediate deduction for purchasing an asset, and the other was a cut to the company tax rate. But why did they not look at increasing the low-value asset threshold for writing off a low-value asset? Why did they not look at targeting this measure towards small business? That would not have cost as much and it would not have had to be taken out on the backs of women. Why did they not consider an accelerated depreciation rate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, these are options that all should have been looked at as alternate measures, but sitting in the regulatory impact statement we find they considered only two options. Of course, the Investment Boost looks good when you\u2019ve only considered that option. Of course it does. I want to know why those other options weren\u2019t considered, especially given the large promises that have been made around it, the large promises of growth in the future. I\u2019ll be wanting the Minister of Revenue and possibly the Minister of Finance to answer for that in the committee stage of this bill. In the meantime, there are some very serious questions to be asked about the other measures in this bill, some very serious questions to be asked about the KiwiSaver changes that mean that people will be worse off in retirement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, in recent days, we\u2019ve heard the Minister of Finance saying that we need to examine superannuation in the future\u2014we know who\u2019s holding her back from doing that; that\u2019s New Zealand First. But we need to get serious about New Zealand superannuation. Well, it doesn\u2019t seem to be getting very serious about it when we cut the savings of people in retirement. One way to ensure that we could adjust superannuation in the future would be ensuring that low-paid workers have more saved up by the time they retire. But that Government, we estimate they have taken $66,000 away from a person who\u2019s starting work tomorrow. That\u2019s a lot of money that\u2019s gone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s another very, very serious question to be asked around the Working for Families changes. When we looked into it, when we asked Treasury, here is what Treasury said about those changes: it turns out that 61,000 families will be $43 a fortnight worse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00227e54bef124914b1583a238bbaf876f7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e54bef124914b1583a238bbaf876f7a\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. A friend of mine messaged me during the speeches earlier saying, \u201CWow, this Budget is catastrophically bad and cartoonishly evil.\u201D, and I wonder if the members opposite on the Government benches realise how out of touch they are. Another person suggested that maybe the Budget should be known as the \u201CBudget for the wealthy and sorted\u201D, because it\u2019s very, very clear that the members of the Government, clapping like seals in their little chorus of applause for their party leaders and finance Minister, are completely out of touch with what ordinary New Zealanders are having to deal with in terms of the increased cost of living, and now a huge number of people, hundreds of thousands of people, looking at not having the increase to pay that they are deserved for the important work that they\u2019re doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s very clear in the Minister\u2019s speech on this bill, which brings in their Budget measures, is that her vision of New Zealand is one of a bunch of individuals who don\u2019t work together and those who are competitive and hard-working climb up ahead and shove everyone else down and then enjoy, you know, their multiple properties or whatever, this tiny proportion of people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ELook, we\u2019re not going to support this bill. Mainly, I want to speak to the Best Start payment, because the Best Start payment was a really awesome initiative, and the Green Party would\u2019ve extended the universality of it. We would not have brought in means testing for year two and year three. So thousands of families having a brand-new baby have their income cut by $3,800 a year by this bill. That\u2019s what the Budget does. It takes money away from families with new babies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe changes to Working for Families, we haven\u2019t been able to get into the detail of that yet, but, ultimately, what the Minister has said demonstrates that she does not understand. She doesn\u2019t think people who have lost their jobs deserve to live in dignity. The 5 percent unemployment, higher for certain populations like M\u0101ori, like women, like Pasifika, people with disabilities, she\u2019s going to make it harder for them\u2014this Government\u2019s making it harder for them to make ends meet just because they\u2019re not in a position to find paid work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe reality is we\u2019re not at 100 percent employment. The whole purpose of this attitude of, like, punishing those who are out of work rather than ensuring that everybody, when they fall on hard times, has the means to live with dignity\u2014the purpose of that is to keep wages lower. It is to keep wages lower, and in the meantime we all suffer from having more child poverty in our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s very clear from the Budget that child poverty is not going to get better because of these Budget measures. That is what we see, and that\u2019s all a political choice that this Government has made because they lack empathy. The crazy thing, from my point of view, is that they actually believe that this is going to\u2014well, from what they say, it sounds like they think this is going to be good for growth or the economy. I mean, it\u2019s good for growth in poverty. It\u2019s good for growth in the number of people who are homeless. This idea of growth that they\u2019re cheerleading for demonstrably does not come from cutting investment in people. It doesn\u2019t come from cutting benefits. It doesn\u2019t come from taking money away from young families. It doesn\u2019t come from underpaying women who do some of the most essential work in our country. That\u2019s not what leads to economic prosperity and productivity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EFinally, I\u2019ll just touch on these tax cuts or tax breaks for businesses. If the Government was truly serious about tackling low productivity in New Zealand, they would take the mainstream economic advice from institutions like the IMF who have recommended tax reforms, including a comprehensive capital gains tax or a land value tax. Like, the problem with productivity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f62708000104c3c877a9a2136371647\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: The woke mind virus has spread far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0c91b163ffa43b1a72f4c9fb7e6382f\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, Simon Court says the woke mind virus has spread to the IMF, I guess. It\u2019s just, like, laughable. It\u2019s really hard not to sit in here and laugh at the absurdity of the claims from the Government benches when we know what it takes to achieve improvements in productivity, and it\u2019s not tax breaks for new utes, all right, so stop pretending like you care about the future of this country when all you care about is lining the pockets of your mates and your donors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022 data-id=\u002272526a5a3c5741c0aaa6938c01d5d884\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272526a5a3c5741c0aaa6938c01d5d884\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD (Associate Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Look, I rise on behalf of the ACT Party to commend the Taxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2) to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003EIn particular, I am really excited on behalf of the ACT Party around the Investment Boost scheme. We\u2019ve talked for a while about how important it is to improve productivity in this country, to get investment happening in this country\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225800176dc8784145a08587a8161a2b9a\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, capital gains tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bbce63d1b2f4d0a99ce85dc133e0a76\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and pushing it further. The member opposite talks about a land tax. How\u2019s that going to help anything? That\u2019s going to discourage you from doing any other investment because you\u2019re too busy paying their death taxes and their land taxes and their capital gains taxes and every other tax there is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003EI just want to provide a really simple, practical example of how investment in a business can drive productivity and how incentivising that will improve outcomes not only for a class of businesses but the entire country. Now, a few nights ago here in Parliament, we had a function over at the Banquet Hall for a really innovative, awesome Kiwi firm that\u2019s taking on the world; that\u2019s fastest-growing in the country. The product they\u2019ve got, it\u2019s not cheap; it\u2019s a serious investment\u2014trust me, I know\u2014but if you were there, you would have heard about some pretty impressive numbers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003EBy using this product, the farmers that use it were getting a 20 percent improvement in pasture production. Now, that means a 20 percent improvement in production. That pasture gets eaten by a cow and it gets turned into either more beef or more milk. That\u2019s money for this country. It leads to a 70 percent reduction in lameness. Now, you may not think, \u201CWell, what does that mean?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c931fa79ade64cfe8c94bdb247d90c81\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: Animal welfare\u2014really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4393cecfabe46898a626e1d2d714122\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s animal welfare, but it\u2019s more than that. A lame animal isn\u2019t making you as much money; it is costing you money. Again, this is improvements in productivity and it also led to 20 percent less time that the people on those properties needed to work. They were more efficient\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022563ea392591841f688ad2869f96882a8\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: Better working conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247decede4d3b443088a9a3a29e10b640\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014they were more productive, better working conditions, enjoying their jobs more. The whole business improved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003EThat enables higher wages for everyone and that just flows through the economy: 20 percent more milk would mean 20 percent more tanker drivers, 20 percent more workers in the factory. The numbers that Treasury have put in the regulatory impact statement around what we might see\u2014you know, the member opposite was questioning, \u201COh, will these promises come true?\u201D If anything, they\u2019re probably half undercooked, quite frankly, from what I know of when you\u2019re able to invest new technology, new innovation, new ideas into your business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003EIt was insinuated that, \u201COh, this is just for the big boys; the big corporations.\u201D No. New Zealand is built on small family businesses, and these businesses being able to invest and look for new, productive ideas, improving their business, helps all of New Zealand. This is an absolutely great scheme and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4326a60c1534c5ca8b026e4ed955f39\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4326a60c1534c5ca8b026e4ed955f39\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to support the Taxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2). It\u2019s been a great day sitting in the House, in, obviously, still my first term here, and hearing the finance Minister deliver her second Budget, and also having that Budget delivered, to actually see our finances in this country being turned around and, at the same point of time, with the other Associate Ministers, the effort that\u2019s been put into that Budget today. But even on this side of the House, and especially from a New Zealand First point of view, seeing some of the wins in that Budget today and some of the hard work that we\u2019ve put in and, in the past, said about compliance with the Inland Revenue Department and actually seeing some extra money flowing into the Budget there\u2014we\u2019ve actually seen savings that now we\u2019ve been able to put into other incentives around the SuperGold card; we\u2019ve had an increase in New Zealand Customs Service staff; M\u0101ori wardens are getting more money; that great thing that we championed, the rail; and also Matua Jones around energy. So having that extra money in our pockets to actually be able to put into some really important places. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThe bill here today addresses three issues: the Investment Boost is the main part that I want to come back to and talk about, the KiwiSaver reforms, and the Working for Families changes. But hearing the Budget delivered today, we heard about this being a responsible Budget. Obviously the other side of the House doesn\u2019t understand what responsible is, because they\u2019re just bemused by what we\u2019ve actually done, actually turning this economy around. We\u2019re talking about economic growth, we\u2019re talking about getting behind the productive sectors in New Zealand. This is an investment Budget. When you look at the Investment Boost\u2014and just as the last speaker alluded to\u2014this is a game-changer. This is a game-changer for small businesses. It\u2019s a game-changer for businesses in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EAnd what an idea! We\u2019re going to look back on this day and we are going to say \u201CInvestment Boost; what a terrific, what a great idea that was.\u201D I\u2019ve owned a small business. Most people on this side of this House have actually worked. We have actually owned businesses. We actually know, buying an asset, how difficult that is. And if we can invest into capital, if we can actually take that 20 percent and then still depreciate, what a game-changer that is for businesses. I think, tomorrow, people are going to be out to shops. I think Mark Patterson, he\u2019s going out to buy a tractor tomorrow; I think he\u2019s going to buy a tractor. I think there\u2019s some people on this side of the House\u2014we\u2019re going to go out and we\u2019re going to have Fieldays and we\u2019re going to be spending up, because this is the day that this has changed. So Investment Boost, I think we\u2019ll look back\u2014what a stroke\u2014that this has been a real change today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EKiwiSaver reforms\u2014again, that side of the House doesn\u2019t understand: why would we say to 16- and 17-year-olds that we don\u2019t want to contribute to them? They\u2019re going to say \u201CNo\u201D to that. They\u2019re going to say \u201CNo\u201D to my teenagers who are that age who are working\u2014they\u2019re now going to get the contribution, and guess where they\u2019re going to put that money! Into their first homes. We want people in their first homes, we want them to have that opportunity. That, again, is a game-changer today. So this has been a great Budget, great incentives. This is a great bill. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u0022376775582c3f45e6b1827aa7a11085b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022376775582c3f45e6b1827aa7a11085b7\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Probably the first thing I\u2019d want to say, possibly to the speaker just before me, is that that\u2019s mighty white of you\u2014so let me repeat that: that\u2019s mighty white of you\u2014because in all of your expression and all of your ideology and all of your P\u0101keh\u0101 reo, which is quite limited, at the end of the day, what I\u2019m hearing in it is that it suits you, it fits with you, and, sadly, it does nothing for M\u0101ori. I know that you want to think it is, because Matua Jones, who happens to be my relation, by the way, gets\u2014you misunderstand the whole scenario. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EBut, look, I don\u2019t expect much more, and, by the way, look, I\u2019m pleased to stand and oppose this. I\u2019m pleased and I must, and it is a duty. Why? Because the number of people outside this House\u2014you obviously weren\u2019t listening to it. You were probably\u2014I don\u2019t know what you were doing\u2014flicking through your papers. But outside, this morning, you had a number of people come and tell you lot that \u201CYou are failing. You are screwing us over. You are damaging our future. You are bad for our health. Cut it out.\u201D That\u2019s what they were saying, and guess what! They were women and girls, and they were full of it, wanting to possibly get you to understand and think this through. But you won\u2019t, because you\u2019re carried away with your mighty white selves. So here we go\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022453b8cafa387400d9fef00dc222fb8d3\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: He paku \u0101whina m\u014D te mema. Taihoa, he paku \u0101whina m\u014D te mema, me k\u014Drero mai ki a au. Hei aha te k\u014Drero ki a r\u0101tou. T\u0113r\u0101 te tikanga o te Whare. \u0100e, haere tonu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E[A little help for the member. Hold on, a little help for the member, you should speak to. Don\u2019t worry about speaking to them. That\u2019s the procedure of the House. Yes, continue.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d4b4f4d3d474d19a6bbcdc2bb6da244\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: Ka pai. T\u0113n\u0101 koe. So the Minister of Finance is, essentially, asking M\u0101ori and low-income wh\u0101nau to front a $170 million tax cut to implement a 20 percent tax deduction for businesses. Let\u2019s be clear about what\u2019s happening here under these new proposals: KiwiSaver contributions for lower-income earners are being cut, meaning that they will pay more and receive less than they do now. This isn\u2019t just a tweak to the system; this is a fundamental shift that undermines the retirement security of the very people who need it most. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EI really wish that the lot on my left listened to \u201CDoc\u2019s\u201D speech this morning, and I know it would have irritated particularly the most ignorant, possibly because you just can\u2019t get it. But, look, do some reading and understand the shared history that you have, and you\u2019re welcome that you get to live here at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c62e4e5d721b4a399082f3b7431c4a5f\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261070d6ac45e4f13844be5621bd2f144\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I know\u2014having feelings. Come on, come on, come on, come on\u2014go ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226110573e09554243a11176251b38bff6\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248ffe7e0425740ddaa326b1ad540d833\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order, Simon Court. [Interruption] There\u2019s a point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263e7115c26134d9dab730ee31ba8a453\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: That reference that that member made to \u201Cwe should be thankful that we should be allowed to live here at all\u201D, I find offensive\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fb472eadbf34949812b1052ab98f1f4\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the point of order? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022787d3894932d4f99addebe0820ab8c05\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I find it\u2014the point of order is that that member is creating disorder in the House by suggesting that some members don\u2019t deserve to live here, and I ask that you ask that member, please, to withdraw\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fa9013debf94d44a5ecea9513b42f7e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229aeebafb5e32403995dbc217dd51ab62\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267a58fdf329d48dea939bdf9bd3d5848\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: OK, I\u2019ve heard that. Speaking to the point of order? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0f27015cff44703adcf0230eb179b14\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, it wouldn\u2019t be the first time that people had feelings and offence in this House\u2014I mean, that was constantly my feeling as soon as the first speech began this morning. So that\u2019s my response to the point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227eee4155b0134043bef9af0ecd210e1b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I found it very difficult to hear the member talking at all because of the number of interruptions on that side of the House. There always has to be a bit of give and take in this place, but I would invite all members to think carefully about their contributions and also their interjections, as well, because it is important that the people at home can hear this debate. So, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi, I call you to continue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228222406ad4c24b3798ee247c883f5942\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. We are making it harder, not easier, for young people to own a home, and for M\u0101ori, who already face significant barriers to homeownership, this is another door being slammed shut in their faces. This tax cut is being propped up by M\u0101ori, by low-income earners, by solo parents, and by wh\u0101nau who are already doing it tough. That is not economic strategy; that is economic exploitation of vulnerable communities, who have been absolutely pummelled with legislation that is stealing right from underneath their noses, again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EMake no mistake, the changes for Working for Families will mean that fewer wh\u0101nau will qualify for support\u2014I mean, please hear that. The increase for wh\u0101nau who do receive it will only amount to $14 per fortnight. You think that\u2019s OK\u2014you can tolerate that? Sorry, Mr Speaker\u2014through you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThese taxation measures are redistributing wealth upwards. It is taking from the poor and handing it to the rich. They are blocking out our mokopuna and our young wh\u0101nau from getting into homeownership. The change to KiwiSaver puts homeownership even further out of rich, out of reach\u2014\u201Crich\u201D; funny\u2014for young people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EReally, if I can just refer back again to the great voices this morning that were speaking to this House, if people were daring to listen to it, and saying, \u201CYou are failing us, you are failing our children, you are failing women.\u201D You are failing women\u2014the number of women that are out there, fists-upping, going, \u201CEh, sisters are doing it for themselves.\u201D Please, I\u2019d ask the side on my left to take note, because it\u2019s coming. T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u00226dc28364722f4bda9e379f16dcee9692\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226dc28364722f4bda9e379f16dcee9692\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I acknowledge the enthusiasm from the other side. But what a great day we have in the House today, and I tell you what, as the Minister of Revenue for this Government, I am very, very proud of the initiatives which we have outlined today under this Government. Under the leadership of Christopher Luxon, under the leadership and thought of Nicola Willis, as our Minister of Finance, we have delivered our Budget, which is going to increase investment in this country. That is great for our economy, it is great for our people, and it is great for future generations, and we should be proud of that as a party and as a country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThis Budget delivers tax incentives to lift growth through Investment Boost. It means that KiwiSaver changes are going to encourage more savings. It\u2019s going to increase support for families. Those elements matter. They are going to make a difference, because we know that, for too long, Kiwis have been doing it tough. Life has become very challenging for many New Zealanders, with the rising cost of living and placing real pressure on households across this country. But that is why this Government is focused on growing the economy and putting in place changes such as the tax legislation that we\u2019re passing today, which will turn that reality around, to increase economic growth, to increase jobs, and to increase the wages and grow our economy and get Kiwis back on track. That is really, really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThis bill covers three key areas, which we\u2019ll walk our way through today. It is going to drive investment, it is going to lift productivity, and certainly, as I noted, it will lead to an increase in wages. However, these measures are not the only aspects which this Government is doing; we have outlined a suite of interventions today that deal with the core issues and opportunities in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThis Government wants to boost investment, but actions speak louder than words, and this legislation, from today, means that hard-working Kiwis can get benefit, can reduce the tax implications of investments. Let\u2019s give a real example. Let\u2019s think about an electrician in my electorate of Takapuna who\u2019s going out tomorrow and wants to buy a new van for their small business. Well, immediately, from tomorrow, that electrician\u2014that small business\u2014will be able to get a benefit of 20 percent reduction in terms of that investment, of that vehicle, tomorrow and be able to offset that against their tax. That means that that amount of tax saved is more money that that individual can put back into their business to help grow their livelihoods, to help grow our economy, and to help deliver core services to our communities. That is real action, and that is what that initiative is going to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EChanges in the KiwiSaver regime that have been announced by this Government will make tangible differences for New Zealanders. For the first time, 16- and 17-year-old New Zealanders will be able to get the benefits of KiwiSaver; 85,000 young New Zealanders will be able to now get the benefit of KiwiSaver. That is tangible investment in our young people. Why? Because they deserve it, and this Government recognises that. Won\u2019t it be interesting to see if, on that side of the House, they vote against that change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EWe also know that increasing contribution rates will increase the amount of money that people have at retirement. That is very, very important. It\u2019s prudent, it is sensible policy, and we\u2019re giving time to make sure that increases over time as well. We have also increased the thresholds for Working for Families\u2014tangible increases that mean those benefits will go to those individuals with incomes below $100,000. The examples provided by some people in this House are completely misleading in the context of those people who will not benefit. This is targeted at those families that most need that benefit. Those changes would have not been updated since 2018. This Government is making changes, and those benefits will flow through importantly to those families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe changes today are important, substantial changes in tax policy to drive economic growth, to drive the livelihoods of all New Zealanders, and to put more money in their back pockets. I commend this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb52c368d9c34188a6ec88902e6dce91\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb52c368d9c34188a6ec88902e6dce91\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E I agree with one statement that the previous speaker, the Hon Simon Watts, said, and that is that actions speak louder than words. Today, we have seen the actions of a Government where they have laid their values very bare for New Zealanders to see, because Budgets are about choices. Budgets are a time where Governments have to make value-based decisions about what their priorities are. What have we seen in this year\u2019s Budget? We\u2019ve seen a Government that has decided that it is absolutely their priority to take nearly $3 billion a year out of the pay packets and pockets of some of our lowest-paid women workers and their families, and to give that for tax breaks to other people. For $200 million for the oil and gas sector\u2014multinational companies. That is more of a priority for this Government than $3 billion going into the pockets of our families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s have a look at the legislation before us. Let\u2019s have a reality check on some of the excitement that the Minister of Finance\u2014followed, but not quite as excitedly, by the Minister for Revenue\u2014got. The Minister of Finance came down here, thinking she was some latter-day champion of working people, and challenged us to vote for this because this was the panacea for working people. But let\u2019s look at the detail of this legislation that we have before us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo when we\u2019re told that this is the centrepiece of growth, this piece of legislation, for the Government, now let\u2019s not make any mistakes. On this side of the House, we are open to discussions about good policy that will increase productivity in New Zealand. But as my colleague the Hon Deborah Russell has identified, there\u2019s just two options that have been explored and we\u2019re now debating in urgency. There were a bunch of other options that could and should have been looked at and weighed very carefully to see if they were the right ways. Because the centrepiece for growth\u2014the thing that the Prime Minister is hanging his hat on and the Minister of Finance is hanging her hat on\u2014is 1 percent growth in GDP over 20 years. For those working people that the latter-day champion of the working people\u2014Nicola Willis\u2014comes down and says she\u2019s speaking on behalf of, when you look at the detail of the changes, the Treasury have been telling the Government we\u2019re looking at a 1.5 percent increase in wages over 20 years as a result of these changes. So let\u2019s not let facts get in the way of what we\u2019re actually doing here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIn terms of the KiwiSaver contributions, again, on this side of the House, we\u2019re not opposed to 16- and 17-year-olds starting to save for their retirement, but to halve the Government contribution\u2014what are we seeing? We\u2019re seeing that for an 18-year-old today, they are going to enter retirement with $66,000 less than they would have had if the Government kept its contribution where they are today. For a 30-year-old\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7f54836c0704523a697c8142d06d71c\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: Read the RIS.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229977058cb65f4211b74b72129a6f8209\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that is $30,000 less\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fc018293d064f789ef6bc76ec7fc8dd\u0022\u003EHon Simon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: Read the RIS.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4f95d80e35749ad8495f2d14177e523\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that they will be taking into their retirement than they would have had today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhat we also see from the Treasury advice in the regulatory impact statement (RIS)\u2014and, yes, I have read the RIS\u2014is that the Government was told very clearly that 80 percent of the cost increases with employer contributions would result in lower wage growth for those working people. So before we start championing this as the panacea for working people, let\u2019s have a look at that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s have a look at the fact that we do have tens of thousands of families that are going to be up to $43 a week worse off under this. We have the vaunted changes that are going to help families with the cost of living being less than a block of butter a week. This is not the real relief that New Zealanders get and it has been paid for off the backs of working women and not paying them what they are worth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd98fbc55b784f8f9d90a09f8ab87709\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd98fbc55b784f8f9d90a09f8ab87709\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, aren\u2019t the Labour Party jealous of this Budget? Aren\u2019t they jealous of this Budget? Aren\u2019t they jealous of the KiwiSaver changes we\u2019ve made? Let\u2019s have a look at the KiwiSaver changes, and they\u2019ll be thinking, \u201CNo wonder Barbara Edmonds is invisible at the moment.\u201D They will be thinking, \u201CWhy didn\u2019t we come up with this? Why didn\u2019t we come up with extending employer matching on KiwiSaver to 16- and 17-year-olds?\u201D Why didn\u2019t they\u2014why didn\u2019t they back our young people? Why didn\u2019t they allow 16- and 17-year-olds to get matched by Government contribution? That\u2019s what will happen from 1 July. That contribution will encourage young people to start saving. It will encourage young people to start saving for a deposit. And this is this, and the National Party - ACT Party - New Zealand First coalition Government has done that for 16- and 17-year-olds. That\u2019s what we\u2019ve done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EWhat else have we done? What else have we done that they\u2019ll be thinking \u201CWhy the hell didn\u2019t we do that?\u201D Axing the Government contribution for those that earn over $180,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239990f7350e24ce5897aaa55bdcd0a8f\u0022\u003EHon members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, wow!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b127acadd69045a9bbe1e2270a427d3b\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, wow! Oh, is that us looking after our mates? No, why on earth didn\u2019t they do that? Why wouldn\u2019t they axe it for the rich? Why wouldn\u2019t they axe it for the rich? In 2021, they brought in that top tax rate, 39c in the dollar. Oh, for everyone earning over $180,000, they said: \u201CThey don\u2019t need it.\u201D They didn\u2019t do that, though, did they? They didn\u2019t save the average working New Zealander any money\u2014any money\u2014by axing the Government contribution for those that earn over $180,000. So we did that. We did that and that\u2019s why we are the party of workers and the party of SMEs\u2014and we\u2019re the country of small to medium sized businesses: 97 percent of our businesses are small to medium sized businesses. And guess what! They\u2019re all eligible for Investment Boost\u2014they\u2019re all eligible for Investment Boost. That will be for tradies. That\u2019ll be a 20 percent deduction on the cost of new machinery, tools, equipment from their taxable income at the next financial year, kicking in now, isn\u2019t it? Isn\u2019t it Minister of Revenue\u2014kicking in now to be redeemable next year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EWhen do we have Fieldays? On 11 June, Fieldays kicks off at Mystery Creek. What a time to buy a tractor. What a time for farmers to get in and buy some technology. What a time. Utes! If utes got cheaper last year, they\u2019re about to get another 20 percent cheaper. People say, \u201COh, but, surely, they can\u2019t get their depreciation off that ute as well.\u201D We dropped the ute tax; they still get their depreciation, minus 20 percent\u2014they get that off their tax bill. Wow. Oh my\u2014you won\u2019t be able to see the Government marquees at the Fieldays for people lining up saying, \u201CWow, you are making it easier for me to invest in my business.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EAs has been alluded to, the regulatory impact statement\u2014this lot always says, \u201CWhere\u2019s your regulatory impact statement? Where is your regulatory impact statement?\u201D Well, they don\u2019t want to read this one, do they? They won\u2019t be reading this one because this shows us a lot of things about Investment Boost and its contribution to the national economy. Holy smoke\u2014Investment Boost\u2014this is big. It is expected to lift\u2014get this\u2014the levels of business investment with longer-run benefits including increasing the level of GDP by 1 percent\u2014GDP by 1 percent\u2014capital stock by 1.6 percent, and wages by 1.5 percent over 20 years with at least half of those benefits happening within the next five years. This is an amazing regulatory statement and if anyone wants to read it, it will put you to sleep as well. But it\u2019s got incredible figures from our officials at IRD. One thing about IRD is they don\u2019t exaggerate; if anything, they\u2019re conservative, and that is their estimate. That is their estimate. Huge for GDP growth, huge for investment growth, huge for wage growth, huge for business growth. This Investment Boost initiative\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ae19afe98454b5f9748a121384bdac8\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: Is huge!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225767940acdf34b2ca11a5aa636abd475\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: Is huge. That\u2019s it; that is the word I was looking for. Everyone in business, those 612,000 small businesses are eligible in New Zealand. They\u2019re all eligible to get 20 percent off their asset purchases, their machineries, their utes, their carports for their cars that they\u2019re building\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3578e50d7c549a8b5014708d51947a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3578e50d7c549a8b5014708d51947a2\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022da294e05fbe444cab30617200a852c36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da294e05fbe444cab30617200a852c36\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. Cameron Brewer is sounding more and more like Donald Trump as each minute ticks by. As we hear the National Party congratulating themselves on how proud they\u2019ll be at Fieldays when they can see their mates all buy a tractor for a cheaper price, let them be reminded that in 2026, this Budget saves $2.9 billion from working women. In 2027, it saves another $2.6 billion from pay that would have gone to working women.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIn 2029, it saves $2.6 billion from the pockets of working women. How many tractors is that, Mr Brewer? Because, on top of that, there\u2019s $1.8 billion saved in capital expenditure from the pockets of working women. All up, that is $12.8 billion saved by taking the wages of working women. Those opposite jump up and down with excitement at the thought of Fieldays, of what technology and tractors that their friends will be able to purchase out of the pockets of working New Zealand women\u2014women in libraries, women in hospitals, women in hospices, teachers, women who hold this country together, who were in line for a pay equity settlement that has been ripped out of their hands by this Budget. This Budget is funded by working women and by taking the future superannuation savings of New Zealanders. I would not be proud of that Budget. I would hang my head in shame, because it is a short-sighted and self-serving Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWhat has the money gone to be spent on? Let\u2019s take a look. So $15 million in increasing funding for private schools, because David Seymour says that kids who go to private schools, their parents pay tax too. What about the kids at public schools? The oil and gas sector has also been increased in its funding, out of the pockets of working women. Ministerial budget for international travel, increased by $8 million, out of the pockets of working women.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe cuts that have gone on in this Budget are absolutely unbelievable. KiwiSaver\u2014it hits the lowest-paid New Zealanders. Recently, we have seen the highest number of people withdrawing their KiwiSavers because of hardship. And what does this Government do to respond to the cost of living crisis? It halves the Government contribution to KiwiSaver. An 18-year-old today will get $66,000 less in their superannuation. Also, a 30-year-old will get $30,000 less out of their KiwiSaver by halving the Government contribution in this Budget. It has the biggest impact on lowest-earning New Zealanders, but those members opposite don\u2019t seem to be too concerned about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EAnd let\u2019s take a look at Working for Families, while we\u2019re at it. Working for Families, changing the abatement levels is great, but around 61,000 New Zealand families will receive a decrease of $43 per fortnight, and 89 percent have taxable incomes above $100,000. You\u2019re taking money out of the pockets of New Zealanders. It is a shameful Budget\u2014absolutely shameful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ETo top it all off, from going from the most vulnerable, this Budget also makes it harder for younger New Zealanders who are trying to get a job and trying to get training, by preventing the jobseeker benefit being paid to 18- and 19-year-olds\u2014the very young people that already find themselves on the streets of New Zealand, making it harder for them to get access to emergency housing, making it harder for them to access any funding, and asking them to go to their parents. Well, many of those young people are looking for the jobseeker benefit because they cannot get the support of a parent. The individual circumstances that young people find themselves in will be even harder under this Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis is a self-serving Budget, because it benefits those who are in power already and it further marginalises those who are not in power. It is an absolute disgrace\u2014a Budget that is paid for by working women. That is how this Budget will be remembered in New Zealand history, and I would hang my head in shame if I were you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022695468cae44d4292a4de8cc4de2701ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022695468cae44d4292a4de8cc4de2701ea\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s fantastic to stand to speak on this bill, being the last speaker. It\u2019s almost an opportunity to fact-check some of the misinformation, and it\u2019s good to welcome you back. I\u2019ve got some good information for you, but let me just start with Investment Boost. Wasn\u2019t that a great contribution from the chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee? It was powerful, it was exciting, and it reminded me of the excitement that\u2019s going to be generated next week in Fieldays Wednesday, the largest agricultural event in the Southern Hemisphere, held in the mighty Waikato. And now, with high farmer payouts and an extra 20 percent depreciation on top of normal depreciation, in many cases that\u2019ll be like a 25 to 30 percent depreciation boost. That\u2019s cash flow, that\u2019s investment, that\u2019s confidence. Like the Minister said, for small business, that\u2019s an extra van, that\u2019s an extra ute, and that gives you the confidence to hire an extra employee. It\u2019s a win-win situation. It\u2019s so good, and, like our Minister said earlier today, with a 1 percent increase in GDP coming up, that\u2019s an order of magnitude. That\u2019s a huge impact on the economy. It\u2019s just massive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003ENow, let\u2019s just do a little bit of fact-checking around KiwiSaver. My son worked at a takeaway shop\u2014I won\u2019t name the one, but you could probably imagine; there\u2019s only a few\u2014as a 16- and 17-year-old, and I made sure he ratcheted up his KiwiSaver contribution. \u201CPut it as high as you can, son\u2014why not?\u201D The only difference was his employer wasn\u2019t contributing to it; it was all his own savings. This makes a small adjustment for the employer to contribute up to 4 percent, and it\u2019s a marginal upkeep for employers. As Cameron Brewer said, aren\u2019t we supposed to be against the little man? Aren\u2019t we supposed to be supporting our mates in employment and the big business? No, we\u2019re actually saying, \u201CYou guys can actually put up an increase from 1 percent to 4 percent because it\u2019s the right thing to do and it\u2019s going to be of benefit to your employee.\u201D So I think it\u2019s fantastic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard comments saying that with the reduction in employment contribution, Kiwis are going to be $60,000 worse off because of it. Well, remember, that Government contribution was put there as an incentive when KiwiSaver was first set up, and now we\u2019ve got such huge intake, we\u2019ve got to look: is that still fit for purpose? We\u2019re not getting rid of it; we\u2019re just reducing it. Actually, if you want to do a quick fact-check on the old ChatGPT, you will see that over a 10-year period, someone on $60,000, cutting the Government contribution by half but lifting the employee and employer contribution to 4 percent, they\u2019re $10,000 better off in 10 years\u2014just in 10 years. You compound that over time; it\u2019s huge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003ENow, what about some of those comments that had racial overtones and said, \u201CWhat about M\u0101ori? It\u2019s harder for them to get into housing.\u201D Well, let me give you some facts\u2014let me give you some facts\u201485,000 kids will now be eligible for KiwiSaver at the age of 16 and 17. Do you think some of those 85,000 children will be M\u0101ori? You bet they will be. Tens of thousands of kids will be M\u0101ori, and they will benefit from this employee and employer contribution for KiwiSaver. So this will help more people get into housing. It\u2019s a wonderful thing\u2014it\u2019s a wonderful thing, and I\u2019m so proud to do it. Of course, now families, with the Working for Families, $23 better off a fortnight. When does this kick in? As of tonight, hopefully, we\u2019ll cement this legislation. It\u2019s a great day for New Zealand. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228105ad1a64de44e3a1dbf70ed171ca7b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Taxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2) be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000435\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227b5a2efc8f0d4cdea7649b536fab206f\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022c183419d85e346aaba59fe7f5067fcb4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c183419d85e346aaba59fe7f5067fcb4\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Finance: I move, That the Taxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2) be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s an honour to speak again on this year\u2019s Budget bill\u2014a bill focused on growth. New Zealand is still in recovery mode from economic damage caused by the COVID period and we know many Kiwis are still feeling the impact. We need to accelerate our recovery to erase some of the pressures facing many of our households and businesses. The Government recognises the urgent need to grow our economy. When we speak of growth, it is not just about the numbers; we are talking about helping Kiwis get ahead with higher wages, more job opportunities, and better public services. We are already seeing positive progress. We have brought inflation under control, we have delivered tax relief that has put more money in the back pockets of hard-working Kiwis, and we have supported families with childcare payments through FamilyBoost. Businesses will play a critical role in driving this economic growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI thought it would be useful to provide the House with some facts and figures regarding the proposed Investment Boost, our policy designed to help businesses invest in their companies and increase productivity. New Zealand\u2019s productivity challenges are strongly linked to low investment in business assets. The root cause is that the cost of capital for investment in New Zealand is high relative to other OECD countries, and this is in part driven by our tax settings. The lower investment that this causes negatively impacts productivity and, importantly, the living standards of New Zealanders across this country. New Zealand has experienced low productivity growth over the past decade, averaging just 0.2 percent per annum. Productivity is important because it\u2019s a determinant for increases in GDP and living standards. It means that New Zealand\u2019s weak productivity has broader economic consequences. New Zealand has a high cost of capital compared with other countries. Changes to the taxation of investment, which this Government is doing today, will lift capital intensity and support New Zealand businesses. Investment Boost is designed to achieve this. Actions speak louder than words, and this is a Government of action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EOver 600,000 businesses are in New Zealand. Farmers, agricultural entities, small businesses across our urban areas\u2014they all contribute to our economy; 600,000 of those businesses. And when this bill passes, these businesses will be able to claim a 20 percent tax deduction for any eligible assets they purchase from today. There is no cap on the value of the asset, and there is no cap on the number of assets for which the tax deduction can be claimed for. Investment Boost is an accelerated depreciation regime\u2014a regime that is going to drive economic growth and is so badly needed in this country right now. Compared with the current depreciation rules, businesses would enjoy a larger immediate tax deduction, thus reducing their tax payments in the first year that they own these assets, and thereby reducing the present value of tax over the life of that investment. Investment in business assets will become a lot more attractive from today and a lot more attractive under this Government, and that is critically important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EWe could see over 600,000 businesses across New Zealand investing in their businesses\u2014businesses in Takanini, businesses in Northcote, businesses in Upper Harbour, businesses in Northland, businesses in Thames-Coromandel, businesses in Taumarunui, businesses in the Bay of Plenty, businesses in Kaik\u014Dura, businesses in Timaru, businesses in Christchurch, businesses in \u014Ctaki, businesses in Hamilton-East and Hamilton-West, and businesses in every town and every province of this beautiful country which we all call home\u2014from today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ETreasury estimates that the impact of this will be a 1.6 percent increase in the real capital stock in 20 years, thanks to Investment Boost contributing hugely to productivity. With productivity comes more and better jobs for Kiwis, and, importantly, for those hard-working Kiwis, a rise in their living standards. I\u2019ll tell you what: that is what New Zealanders expect of their Government. As a Government, we have heard that loud and clear, and we are following that through with actions, not words. We\u2019re making that happen. It\u2019s gonna happen from today, and it is a reality. Investment Boost is expected to reduce the cost of capital and increase the capital intensity of New Zealand businesses. All of this means an increase in GDP and, therefore, also increased tax revenue. Guess what! There\u2019s no magic money tree, is there? We need to ensure that we can fund the public services that Kiwis deserve. As a result of more economic growth, we will derive more tax revenue and we will be able to fund those services Kiwis need. We are not a Government of taxing New Zealanders more; we are deriving more economic growth. That is an enduring mechanism in order to improve the living standards of this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIt is estimated that the nominal GDP will increase by a very healthy $6.4 billion over the forecast period\u2014$6.4 billion. That is a heck of a lot of money, and that is economic growth and benefit for the communities across this country. We acknowledge that the initial fiscal cost will be high, but the forecast is to tail off and the benefits will exceed the costs. It is investment in New Zealand\u2019s future economic success.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI focused this speech on only one of the key measures of this bill, but I will briefly touch on the other two before I conclude. We are supporting Kiwis in saving more through KiwiSaver so that they can enjoy a more comfortable retirement. This side of the House cares about New Zealanders and we care about hard-working Kiwis. We\u2019re doing this by proposing increased contribution rates for employers and employees, which means that by the time Kiwis buy their first home or retire, they will have more money waiting for them in KiwiSaver. Before we move to that, we are also proposing that people aged 16 and 17 years will qualify for Government KiwiSaver contributions, which means that our young people\u201485,000 young people\u2014will be able to enjoy the benefits and be able to start saving sooner for their retirement. We\u2019re also supporting the families who need it most\u2014through Working for Families, by increasing the abatement threshold. This will benefit 142,000 Kiwis who are dealing with increased cost of living so good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EAll of these measures will significantly benefit New Zealanders. I am very proud, as revenue Minister for this Government and as a member of this Government, to be able to deliver this legislation\u2014these changes in our underlying tax settings which will make a tangible and real difference for New Zealanders. That difference will not be felt next year, it will not be felt in a month\u2019s time, it will not be felt in a week; it will be felt from today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00227e91b9e0e7d84852b56c363481bc73fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e91b9e0e7d84852b56c363481bc73fe\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. Time for me to leave the Chair. The House will resume at 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6e4182b2980412a9d8b62bd479a2964\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6e4182b2980412a9d8b62bd479a2964\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Good evening, members. When we broke for the dinner break, we were up to the second reading of the Taxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2). We were up to call No. 2, the Labour Party call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00228b957a0ce80e4a079b072b0f725a4397\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b957a0ce80e4a079b072b0f725a4397\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to speak on this bill. We\u2019ve had a little bit of time now to have a look at the bill, to assess what\u2019s going on in it, to read the details on it. Of course, we\u2019ve also, since about 4.45 today, had access to the various regulatory impact statements and to some of the background information about this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, in the first reading of this bill, the Minister of Finance and various speakers from the Government were very enthusiastic about Investment Boost. I have to say that in his speech in the second reading of this bill, the Minister of Revenue, too, was very, very excited about the so-called Investment Boost. I get why they\u2019re excited. It is the major measure that they have put through in economic terms for this particular Budget\u2014there are, of course, other measures\u2014the major positive measure that they have put through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, the trouble with this measure is not whether or not it\u2019s good or bad in itself, although I\u2019m inclined to think that, on the whole, it\u2019s probably something that\u2019s working in the right direction. It has nevertheless been paid for out of the future wages of working women. Women hold up half the sky and it turns out, in this country, they are carrying the Budget this year. That is where this Investment Boost is coming from, so the Investment Boost had better be worth it. It really needs to deliver what the Government has said it is going to deliver, and the only way that we can work that out is to have a look at what is said in the regulatory impact statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, we have to remember that at this stage, because we are doing this in urgency\u2014and I absolutely understand the need to specify a starting date for this policy\u2014we have not had a select committee process, so we haven\u2019t had time to dig into the economic analysis of this. Of course, this is being justified on economic grounds, and as I\u2019ve said, they\u2019d better be good. Just having said that, it\u2019s still not quite clear to me why this particular measure absolutely had to go through under urgency. There is no reason why a starting date couldn\u2019t have been specified, and that starting date could have been today, but we could still have had time to work the legislation through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENevertheless, having not had that opportunity, I want to look at the macroeconomic analysis contained in the regulatory impact statement, because we have been told by the Treasury, by the Treasury\u2019s papers, by the Minister of Finance, and by the Minister of Revenue, that this will contribute to economic growth over time, and it will contribute to economic growth in the order of about 1 percent over the next 20 years or so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo looking at the macroeconomic impacts, here\u2019s the first interesting statement in the macroeconomic impact, assessing whether or not it is worth pursuing this measure\u2014and I\u2019d like to direct members\u2019 attention to paragraph 62 in the regulatory impact statement. That\u2019s after discussing that this is likely to be a positive measure, but then paragraph 62 says that there is, however, a high level of uncertainty as to the precise magnitude of impacts, although the direction of impact is certain\u2014so, yes, we do think that this will have a positive impact on growth, but it is highly uncertain as to what the magnitude of that impact will be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThen it carries on to discuss the findings from international literature saying what the heavy economic analysis says might be the effect of this measure. Of course, Treasury did its own estimates. It\u2019s got its own economic model. They do have highly skilled people. It says that they looked at the international literature where the results were broadly consistent with Inland Revenue and Treasury estimates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EBut to look at the summary of overseas regimes, we are directed to table 8 in annex 2 of the regulatory impact statement. Sitting there in table 8, it talks about countries where similar work has been done. Now, let\u2019s remember what this measure is. It gives a cash-flow advantage to people who are investing in new depreciable assets, so it gives them a bit of a boost along the way, but that can only be justified if it adds to economic growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, in Australia, it turns out that the one analysis that\u2019s available from there is from the global financial crisis, and the estimate is that perhaps GDP growth might have been about 1.2 percent higher thanks to a particular accelerated depreciation policy they had in place for a short time for small business. But of course, it was only small business that applied to. They\u2019ve had a 100 percent write-off\u2014full write-off for assets of $150,000 or less\u2014in place for a few years, and they can\u2019t really tell yet the magnitude of the impact of that. They think there was a lift in investment, but whether or not that led through to increased economic growth is a different matter. As we know, Australia, like us, is not growing at the rate that it would like to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThere are some studies from the United States suggesting that having this kind of accelerated depreciation write-off does increase economic growth. The interesting policy is that credible estimates on very recent policy changes suggest maybe a 1.7 percent increase in capital stock, but then it says, \u201Cbut direct GDP impacts are less clear at this time.\u201D And so it goes on through all the studies that are quoted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI want to suggest that that paragraph 62 is reflecting very accurately\u2014in fact, it carries a large amount of weight when it says that \u201Cthere is, however, a high level of uncertainty as to the precise magnitude of impacts.\u201D In other words, despite all the rhetoric from over there, we just don\u2019t know. It\u2019s likely to be positive, but we just don\u2019t know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWhat we do know is that women have lost out\u2014to try to get this high level of uncertainty about the economic impacts\u2014on their future pay rises, and that is something that will affect them for a very, very long time. Pay equity has been swept away for this high level of uncertainty as to the precise magnitude of impacts. [Interruption] So we think this policy might work, but we\u2019re highly uncertain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022515b78ebb75541048598bf847e355322\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: We won\u2019t have the conversation across the House, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f4c23aae3c34d4b8c3f92f3e67a8fbc\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: What we are certain about is that women are paying for the cost of that. Carrying on through the other measures that have been taken in this Budget, we know that with the Working for Families changes that have come into place\u2014changes around the abatement rate, around the threshold, around the universal Best Start in the first year of a child\u2019s life\u201461,000 families will be worse off. So we know that the Working for Families change will be fiscally neutral, the changes within Working for Families\u201461,000 families are worse off. Well, they are paying for this highly uncertain economic impact as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWe know that the KiwiSaver tax credit\u2014an incentive to save that also provides a substantial benefit to low-income people\u2014has been halved and has been taken away, and that over the lifetime of a worker, that might amount to as much as $66,000 gone. That, too, is what is paying for this highly uncertain economic impact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo, yes, we do think that this will have a positive effect, but it is highly uncertain as to how much. What we do know with absolute certainty is that it is the women and the low paid who are paying for this Budget, and that is an appalling thing. We want our country to do well, but it should not do it off the backs of the most vulnerable, and that Government should be ashamed of doing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo we are going to carry on opposing this bill. This measure in itself\u2014we should be doing something of this nature. It is worth trying, but I want to know a lot more about it and we need to be a lot more certain about it before we can endorse it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022ffb53280f3dc44389147b73ceeacaa3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ffb53280f3dc44389147b73ceeacaa3b\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E This is a Budget for the wealthy few, not for the many, and this is so telling in this first piece of legislation we\u2019re debating straight after the Budget speeches. You\u2019ve just got to look at the Hansard record of the first reading speeches, and the New Zealand First member\u2019s speech, because the people that he mentioned this bill would benefit were not working families, were not people in poverty, were not those that are homeless. It was his own colleague\u2014Mark Patterson\u2014who\u2019s now going to be able to buy a tractor. Like, spare a thought for the poor New Zealand First members of Parliament, who will now be able to finally buy a tractor, while children are going to experience greater levels of material hardship. [Interruption] You don\u2019t have to believe me! You can just look at your own Government\u2019s child poverty reports, which show that under this Budget, children will be doing it tougher. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWhat this bill is doing in order to put more children in material hardship is giving, basically, a tax cut to fossil fuel companies, and, on top of that, leaving low-wage workers worse off. Again, for example, when it comes to the KiwiSaver changes, we have a minimum wage worker who\u2019s working 48 hours. Right now, under the 3 percent contribution, they would be contributing around $1,466.40. Under the changes, under 4 percent, that\u2019s an extra $488, which amounts to around $940 extra a week. This is a Government that will be leaving low-income workers worse off as a result of these changes. Then when it comes to the safety-net changes under this bill in the Working for Families package, they\u2019re stripping away universality from some of these changes to just give breadcrumbs to low-income families. People doing it tough deserve far more than a Government that hands out breadcrumbs while giving billions of dollars to people already doing really, really well. I think it\u2019s also really rich that the Government is just recycling and reheating the nachos, the same very narratives that we\u2019ve heard from the 1980s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f63a6739a024062bdc513c34b8d6c08\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: Nachos?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226875330feb104001820d77951f7688c4\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, you should spend some time with young people, or at least people my age, to know some of this terminology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ab2caf8e60c466cb0f42c2c9eb20d38\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: How old are you? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab6635ddecc2437f90fbc68c6706bb6e\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: Younger than you are, at least, in the front bench. But anyway, the important point is that the Government is reheating the very same old narrative that if we give tax cuts to the wealthy, they\u2019ll trickle down to everyday people. It didn\u2019t work in the 1980s, it didn\u2019t work in the 1990s, it didn\u2019t work in the first few decades of the 2000s, and it won\u2019t work this time\u2014it won\u2019t work this time. This Government is only making the pockets of companies fatter at the expense of people doing it tough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EAgain, if we go back to the changes of the bill, I think it\u2019s really lamentable that while we do think that the abatement threshold changes around the Working for Families package are welcomed, it\u2019s the National Party basically trying to fix a problem they created. Because in 2010, they removed the automatic changes to the abatement threshold in the Working for Families package. They themselves created the conditions where, basically, working families on low incomes would be losing money when they entered work, and better-paying work, faster. So this is really weird that the Government is now claiming they\u2019re doing a really good thing where the previous National Government actually created the very same problem, leaving people worse off, and actually with less incentives, to enter employment as a result of those abatement thresholds and changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EIf we go back to the changes to how companies will benefit in terms of the tax breaks that they\u2019re giving to them, the Government members so far haven\u2019t committed to this money being passed down to workers, for example. What they\u2019ve said is that it\u2019ll benefit businesses, but they haven\u2019t given us a guaranteed or evidential basis that this extra money will filter through to workers. They haven\u2019t committed to this, and they haven\u2019t given us a guarantee that there\u2019s any safeguards in this bill that ensure the additional money that businesses receive will equate to higher wages. They can\u2019t make it happen by just repeating it time and time again. What the research does tell us is that if we want to, for example, increase the incomes of families doing it the toughest, we just need to actually continue increasing, at a much higher rate than this Government is doing, things like baseline benefits. We could also be, for example, doing things like pay equity, to ensure that low-paid women, the ones that are paying for the tax cuts under this Budget, can receive adequate and fair wages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EBut instead, the Government has relied, in this bill, on trickle-down economics, hoping\u2014literally hoping, because they haven\u2019t presented any evidence\u2014that it will result in higher wages. Saying buzzwords like \u201Cproductivity\u201D over and over and over in their speeches does not amount to actually a more productive economy. I think, to me, it goes back to the fact that we\u2019ve got a Government that is championing industries that (a) are industries of the past, like the fossil fuel industry that will benefit from this bill; and (b) continues to allow us to have an economy that is sustained by inflated property prices. There\u2019s nothing in this bill that does this. Yet they think that people are somehow ignorant enough that they\u2019ll just buy the buzzwords of saying \u201Cproductivity\u201D time and time again, hoping that they will buy it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI want to go back to the Working for Families changes, because one of the key things that is omitted in this bill is that even though the abatement is changing, the recommendations that have been given to us by experts throughout the years around the changes we need to see in the Working for Families package are not presented in this bill. I think this is a massive missed opportunity to recognise that caregiving is work that should be recognised as such, and therefore that we should be actually having a far more universal and broader Working for Families package, rather than trying to narrow the eligibility. Those first days and years of a child\u2019s life are the most important, and the Government shouldn\u2019t be assuming that just because someone\u2019s on a relatively OK income for a period of time, that\u2019s basically how they\u2019ll be doing throughout their lifetime, which is why having a much broader Working for Families package is better as a safety net to put the child at the centre of policy making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EIn terms of the Investment Boost, which is what they\u2019ve called it, that allows companies buying assets to claim a tax deduction of 20 percent of the value against it immediately instead of as it depreciates, I just want to say that, once again, this is not substantiated in the Government speeches, nor in any of the evidence that we\u2019re seeing as presenting and people having higher wages and a lower cost of living. What we do know, though, is that there\u2019s components of this bill that will explicitly make it harder for low-wage workers. They\u2019re gambling with people\u2019s retirement and people\u2019s ability to have a safety net once they reach 65-plus. The challenge that I see in this is that many people will end up having to choose to then opt out of KiwiSaver as a result of the negative cost of living impacts that this bill is creating on particularly low-wage workers. If you\u2019re a low-wage worker affected by this bill, you may be thinking that I\u2019m better off basically opting out of KiwiSaver to have that additional\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce6a6b319ccf4138b33146648afe2e2c\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Put it in Sharesies, then! Go on, take a punt on the private market!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ef41f4d163844f4ab7566b9140a31a9\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014income on a week-to-week basis. What that means is you end up missing out on having the retirement savings that we all deserve as a safety net once we reach our golden years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s really rich to be shouted at, nonsensical shouts by Simon Court on the other side of the House, when he\u2019s not so much challenging the facts that I\u2019m presenting in terms of how the KiwiSaver changes will leave low-income workers worse off and is rather doing performative outrage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think voters deserve far better than a Government that is quite happy to back their own reports\u2014well, that is quite happy to actually put out reports on child poverty showing us that they\u2019re going to be making things tougher, and then, when it comes to bills like this one, completely omit the families doing it the toughest and talk about businesses, and completely omit components of this bill, in their speeches, that will make life worse for everyday people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think this is one of those bills that would have really benefited from a select committee process so that we could have heard from young people who are on low wages, who will now be, basically, missing out on, effectively, real wages because of the higher contributions that themselves and the employer will be making instead of the Government, and who will now be facing the prospect of either opting out so that they can pay their bills and their rent, or continuing to have KiwiSaver but then having to access hardship assistance from Work and Income New Zealand as low-wage workers simply to make ends meet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThe Green Party won\u2019t be supporting this bill, and we look forward to scrutinising it at the committee of the whole House, because this is a Government that has produced legislation that does not serve the interests of everyday workers and, instead, just simply deepens the pockets of business owners that are already doing it well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022e963099f239847f0bdcbede253e7adba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e963099f239847f0bdcbede253e7adba\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E This Budget is delivering value for taxpayers, and this bill is a blueprint for a more productive, investment-focused economy. Investment Boost means that businesses can deduct 20 percent of the cost of new assets up front. For contractors building roads and bridges, all the things that New Zealand needs, that makes it easier to finance the big gear: the cranes, the diggers, the concrete pumps.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d75bfdc45a34319b80f0971131da8e6\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: The utes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022297aaf8df0114ab199563a203fa9140c\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: The big gear that gets big jobs done faster, Duncan Webb. This Investment Boost also allows petrochemical, petroleum, and mining investment, their development expenditure, to also benefit up to 20 percent\u2014fantastic. When you combine that with what this Government has announced today, providing a $200 million contingency to invest in oil and gas exploration so that we can get New Zealand\u2019s energy sector restored to what it should be, this is a very helpful combination of policies. Less tax delay, more action on the ground. That\u2019s how we build better, sooner, and for less.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThis bill also brings common sense to KiwiSaver, increasing contributions over time but giving workers the opportunity to scale back temporarily if they need to. We\u2019re extending access to 16- and 17-year-olds. That means financial security for young people starting earlier in their lives. They\u2019ll save more. They\u2019ll be better off over time. Who wouldn\u2019t support that? I would expect the Opposition to support that at least.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re also being honest about who needs help, because high-income earners do not need top-ups for their savings, do they? That money should go to families who do. On Working for Families, we\u2019re lifting the abatement threshold to let more parents keep more of what they earn while making sure the system remains affordable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EFor the haters in their \u201Cjust say no\u201D doom cult in Labour, the Greens, and Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014that\u2019s right, Ingrid Leary, you put your thumb on your head\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c62df3c0d7644f50a4d0087991c0ec0a\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: I hate the Budget. You\u2019re absolutely right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e9a62d1146f498ba74101c6a5aa7d61\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014women own and operate businesses that buy things like diggers and manufacturing equipment. They will benefit from Investment Boost. M\u0101ori people own businesses that will benefit from Investment Boost. When I was a civil engineer, I regularly contracted M\u0101ori-owned businesses in the civil engineering space, in directional drilling, in environmental management who owned and operated their own gear. They will benefit from this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThe ACT Party supports this Budget, this bill. It\u2019s a great bill. It respects the taxpayer, and it rewards those people who would invest in plant and equipment, improving the productivity of their business and hiring more people. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022 data-id=\u00220e4fc83f701d483cb6af243b13416836\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e4fc83f701d483cb6af243b13416836\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First, in the second reading, to support the Taxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2). This Budget today, from our Minister of Finance, is a responsible Budget and one that we are going to remember for years to come, that has put New Zealand back on track. As much as we are back on track, we love to see all that rail investment as well, because that\u2019s getting trains on tracks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThere have been some announcements made today around Investment Boost that I want to speak on, around the KiwiSaver reforms and Working for Families changes. We heard from the Minister of Revenue how the Investment Boost is going to help up to 600,000 businesses. That is a huge amount of people in New Zealand, that\u2019s across men and women who own businesses in New Zealand, and that\u2019s P\u0101keh\u0101, M\u0101ori, and all ethnicities who own those business. It is a Budget\u2014and I\u2019d say that 600,000 businesses will help all Kiwis in New Zealand. Also, we heard through the KiwiSaver reforms, around the eligibility for 16- to 17-year-olds, how that will help up to over 80,000 people\u201416- and 17-year-olds\u2014in that age group. We also heard from the Minister of Revenue, on the Working for Families changes and how that will benefit 142,000 people. So we are touching a huge amount of people in this Budget and in these policies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EBut the Investment Boost, as I said in the first reading, is a game-changer. It is a game-changer when you can deduct 20 percent of a new asset in that first year\u2014and that\u2019s extra\u2014and also deduct the depreciation you normally would. That is a game-changer for those 600,000 businesses. When we are, on this side of the House, going to look at this economy and we want to grow the economy and we\u2019re looking into things like the blue economy\u2014you think of aquaculture, you think of marine farming, you think of things in the mining, all the stuff that\u2019s going to need to be bought there. Farming\u2014we\u2019ve got a Minister here\u2014in wool. We\u2019re going to be getting the wool industry back on track, and we are going to need investment. Tourism\u2014a portfolio I have\u2014all those types of businesses, all can invest, and I do believe, starting tomorrow and in the coming months, that the confidence of businesses across New Zealand will increase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9253ab1c4ab430c9e3fc5a33f37ffa3\u0022\u003EHon Mark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: Through the roof.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022772ac5bd9c164b8f861c89f02ffc0664\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE\u003C/span\u003E: It will go through the roof. We will be at Mystery Creek, and we will be at the farming\u2014we will be at all those places, where we\u2019ll see the confidence in the farming communities rise. You will see businesses wanting to invest, and it\u2019s owning a business in the past and actually knowing how difficult it is, sometimes, to make that decision whether we are going to invest in the capital. Sometimes there are things we want to do, and you put it on the backburner. This is an incentive to invest in your business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EWe had the Green Party attacking me about someone possibly, on this side, might want to buy a tractor, but it might be another business. Someone wants to buy a different type of asset. It doesn\u2019t matter what the asset, but if it\u2019s going to make it productive\u2014if it\u2019s going to make the business more productive\u2014they\u2019re going to employ more people. But you don\u2019t know that on that side of the House, because you ones don\u2019t own businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200aa68cd1fdc4c35b9a3ce8e1a872c0d\u0022\u003EHon Jo Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, rubbish. You\u2019ve got no idea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec9a0012a10c4b83858aeb3b5f12bce4\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah\u2014no, you ones are rubbish, because this side of the House, we own businesses, we\u2019ve run businesses, we know what it\u2019s like, we employ people. We don\u2019t think money grows on a tree, because you ones have all this magical money\u2014magical money\u2014that just appears out of nowhere. But on this side of the House, we know businesses earn money, then you actually employ people, and then you\u2019ve got money to pay them. That\u2019s an amazing concept to that side of the House, but this side of the House knows that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EI also mentioned, in the first reading around KiwiSaver, that isn\u2019t it a great day that 16- and 17-year-olds will be eligible for that contribution? As we know, we want to see young people in this country succeed. We want people to learn to work. We don\u2019t want people on the couch. We\u2019ve had the Hon Shane Jones get the nephs off the couch. We want people to have the ability to learn how to work in this country, and if they go to work and they get a little bit of extra money through contributions, that will also set them up for their first homes. Because we want our young people\u2014and I want my daughter, my son\u2014to be able to buy their first home. And actually having KiwiSaver and actually having that extra contribution will be an extra way to actually have a deposit to actually put into the first homes. I think that is, really, again, a game-changer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EWorking for Families, again, 142 families will benefit out of this announcement today. So this is a Government\u2014and on this side of the House, we are growing the economy. This is an investment Budget, and we\u2019ve actually come up with a policy. You\u2019re thinking on that side of the House: \u201CWhy didn\u2019t we think about it?\u201D Well, this side of the House have. We\u2019re going to implement it. We will grow the economy. We will have more people employed, businesses will have more money to pay them, and the economy will get better and it will grow and it will be the proof. The policy today will be seen on the ground, because this is a policy of action. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb4db9622fee491ab5aef424dea3bda0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb4db9622fee491ab5aef424dea3bda0\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, thank you, Madam Speaker. What a great bill this is. Actually, what I think hasn\u2019t quite been touched on that much and deserves a bit of focus is the growth of potentials in productivity from this partial expensing scheme. It\u2019s going to be a massive boost to the economy. We\u2019ll see it in the regions first, and it will go right through the economy. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00222caf22a0c127496dbcd2d5da399bea79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222caf22a0c127496dbcd2d5da399bea79\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I take it the previous speaker, Stuart Smith, took the call from Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori. Is that what happened? OK. It\u2019s just so naive\u2014like, everything that the Government benches say is so naive. It\u2019s like zero awareness of what actually supports our communities, which is the work of people who are looking after our tamariki. In this very bill, the Government\u2019s literally taking away thousands of dollars from huge numbers of families who\u2019ve had a child. That\u2019s what\u2019s happening with the Best Start payment. They\u2019re taking the Best Start payment away so it\u2019s not a universal thing that everybody can access when they\u2019re having babies. They\u2019re taking money away from babies. It\u2019s really anti-family. But they don\u2019t understand, because they\u2019re just so dyed-in-the-wool in their ridiculous\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a983d7d0010442e0b2ef42ec06582ed2\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right, bring back wool.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c96b58b4fa4440e59d71ee8b4a7c2422\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve drunk the Kool-Aid on the neoliberal fantasy of trickle-down economics. Actually, if you go over to countries that are small countries similar to New Zealand but with much higher living standards and much better productivity, they invest in their people. They have generous paid parental leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205a8c14b4ce748d381566024fa4e22e5\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: Like who?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217997293c8d548cfb28b752b6c6d00e9\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: Denmark, for example.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fd5f01ae67d49a2b9473011642ee2f0\u0022\u003EHon James Meager\u003C/span\u003E: Oil?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c2d82a874b443c5ad1c417ac83b9980\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014you don\u2019t even know. Like, they don\u2019t even know what they\u2019re talking about. Norway has oil; Sweden doesn\u2019t. Sweden doesn\u2019t. Denmark\u2014it is not a major part of their funding of these things; they have higher marginal tax rates. They tax inheritances; they tax wealth. The UK does that. The United Kingdom has capital gains tax, they have inheritance taxes, and they have more progressive, higher marginal tax rates, to invest that money into people. Now, I\u2019m not saying the UK is great, because the Scandinavian countries are much better when it comes to paid parental leave. Iceland\u2014Iceland has no oil; Iceland has nine months of paid parental leave and free universal early childhood education. And they have maybe 300,000 or 400,000 people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe Government members know nothing, and they repeat the talking points that their little leaders hand down to them, but if they actually wanted to understand what was going to make New Zealand a more productive and successful economy, they might listen to some of the expert evidence from institutions like the International Monetary Fund\u2014the IMF. What does the IMF say? It says New Zealand should have a capital gains tax, or look at a land tax. That is going to drive more productive investments. But people over on the Government\u2014it\u2019s just very frustrating, for those of us who actually know something about the rest of the world, to listen to the uninformed nonsense coming from the Government benches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ELook, I mean, everything that\u2019s been done in New Zealand since the 1990s, most of it has made us a poorer, less competitive country, and that started with massive privatisation of public assets and reducing the social safety net. That has actually led to New Zealand being a less successful economy, and yet that\u2019s what carries on in this Budget. Rather than making sure that people doing some of the most important public sector work\u2014whether it\u2019s the funded sector or directly employed by Government\u2014people who are care and support workers, who are midwives, who are nurses, who are teachers, who are early childhood teachers\u2014those people are not getting paid sufficiently. If we spent the money paying them properly, then they would spend the money in the economy, and it would actually benefit everyone. But instead, the Government chose to give tens of billions of dollars to people who own property, highly leveraged property investors. And then they have the gall to come in here, and the finance Minister, to say, \u201CWe want to incentivise people to work.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWell, guess what! Having a passive income from an investment property is not working and it\u2019s not making the country more productive. It\u2019s not a productive thing for a small number of people to get rich off investing in property and then we take that money away, when we could have universal investment in services and benefits. If we actually valued children, what would we be investing in? Well, we wouldn\u2019t be cutting back on the Best Start payment. We wouldn\u2019t be cancelling the pay equity claims of early childhood teachers. We wouldn\u2019t have this ridiculous policy for early childhood support that nobody can access, practically. I think the Government members are absolutely dreaming and know nothing. But what is true is that people like them will get richer and do well under this. Those people, they will get richer. They own their investment properties. They will get wealthier. And if they own businesses, they\u2019ll write off the taxes and buy some new toys, which maybe will make their business more productive, but maybe it\u2019ll just be a flash new ute to drive around, and that\u2019s not productive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022118b3bf5107c4ee8a89addaeed58d6ae\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221a9e381f5794e618611f1da3ae5e34f\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0798c2b514e4897ac9f0726e7b310d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0798c2b514e4897ac9f0726e7b310d7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a National Party call\u2014oh, is this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fee545379994b65a6ad7a6497100ebe\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Smith took the call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c04c7c1678a46d9a704b6f14adfca92\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s all out of whack now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222384aafe5eb7458c806aecb1d75e000e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Just for clarification, we\u2019re out of sequence because of the missed call before, so the National Party have slotted into that one. So it is, in effect, the Labour Party call. My apologies. I call the Hon Dr\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022640eb6b37e2e430da57da10b0e072ead\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022640eb6b37e2e430da57da10b0e072ead\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Speaker. I took the M\u0101ori Party call, which was a five-minute call, and then the Green Party have had a five-minute call, so now it\u2019s a 10-minute call for the National Party. And so that\u2019s the right sequence. So it isn\u2019t out of sequence at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002235a57e48c0454238ab80d2aedae930ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235a57e48c0454238ab80d2aedae930ec\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: As it turns out, if Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori were to come and take a call, they would be entitled to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022185d2ae2f98941dcbab27d88295b3984\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s fine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c02f013a324c4687a353b7ab6c381721\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: But then they would have to replace someone else\u2019s slot, and so the number of speaking opportunities remains the same until the end.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u002267cb2c112aae42a7ade6b3261b86f982\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267cb2c112aae42a7ade6b3261b86f982\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the point of order, well, that\u2019s fine, Madam Speaker. There is a National Party call at the end; if they turn up, then they can have that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00221471f03b9c774b2f8e0f98b765d22b7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221471f03b9c774b2f8e0f98b765d22b7c\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the point of order, Madam Speaker, clearly, the allocation of the calls is entirely at the Chair\u2019s discretion\u2014absolutely happy to abide by your decision, whatever it may be. But as I understand it, the call has to be held over for Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori until the end. If they aren\u2019t here or choose not to take it as the final call, then it\u2019s available for a member to take. That\u2019s my understanding of how the House has conventionally approached this problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5a15041800243cbbce48feb64797a16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5a15041800243cbbce48feb64797a16\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: That is the case, and I\u2019ve had advice from the Clerk to that effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022d572ef3882a04a85a9e2ebb2eda31c10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d572ef3882a04a85a9e2ebb2eda31c10\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s my absolute pleasure to take a call on this bill and to spell out why it is that Labour is not supporting this bill. We are under urgency; we are putting this bill through at all stages. So my advice to those on the Government benches is to get a bit beyond your research unit\u2019s speaking notes and get into some detail on the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThis bill purports to do three things, but, essentially, what it does is sit at the heart of what this Government is saying is their growth Budget. So I want us to take some time in this House and unpack that and see what the actual advice was. Because what we, on this side of the House, say is this is not a growth Budget; this is a Budget that is cutting the pay of working women in New Zealand to pay for the measures that we are seeing in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe Government is saying this bill, that will help 600,000 businesses, sits at the heart of their growth agenda. But the advice that Ministers that sat around the Government Cabinet table had was that this was going to increase GDP growth by 1 percent over a period of 20 years. If that is the aspiration that this Government has for growth in New Zealand, then heaven help us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIf we look more closely at the regulatory impact statement\u2014if we go into what was said about that\u2014the Government were also warned that not all the benefit of that 1 percent over the course of 20 years would flow to New Zealanders, because some of it will flow to foreign investors as a return on their investment. We\u2019ve got the Prime Minister, the Minister of Finance coming down and trumpeting that this is great for New Zealand businesses and great for New Zealand workers. This certainly is not a measure that is putting New Zealanders first. This is not something that sits at the heart of growing jobs and wages for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s have a look. What did officials tell the Government it would do due to wage growth over 20 years? Well, 1.5 percent increase difference on wages over 20 years\u20140.075 of a percent per year difference on wage growth. That\u2019s the kind of aspiration that this Government has for working New Zealanders. It can take $3 billion a year out of what should have been destined for the pay packets and pockets of women in this country and instead put this measure in place that will see a paltry 1.5 percent increase to wages over 20 years. That\u2019s the kind of aspiration that this Government has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EAnd wait, there\u2019s more. What is more: officials told the Government that 80 percent of the growth in wages that would come as a result of their changes around KiwiSaver contributions and the way in which New Zealanders would benefit from that would come at the expense of wage growth. So when you put these things together, you can see this is a Government that doesn\u2019t give a jot about the wages of working New Zealanders; that is not putting that as its top priority. It\u2019s cutting $3 billion a year out of the wages of working women and it\u2019s putting in place measures that return a pittance to working New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s have a look; let\u2019s unpack some of the other measures that are in this. One of the things I\u2019m very interested to see is analysis that is coming through in terms of the Best Start\u2014and when we get to the committee stage, we will certainly have some questions about this. What officials told Government\u2014and it\u2019s laid out in the regulatory impact statement\u2014is that 9,000 families would have an increased effective marginal tax rate as a result of the changes in the Best Start package. Who are those 9,000 families that are going to have an increased effective marginal tax rate as a result of this package of measures?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve also seen in the regulatory impact statement officials that have estimated that the income testing of that first year of the Best Start payment will result in 53,000 families becoming ineligible for the payment. That is in the advice that the Government was giving. They made these decisions knowing that 53,000 families are going to become ineligible for this payment. Who are those families and who is missing out are questions that, in the Opposition, we will want some answers to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe Government is trumpeting the $7 a week increase that will go to some families\u2014$14 a fortnight, $28 a month. Let\u2019s put that against some of the cost of the package that we\u2019re seeing here. We know that 61,000 families are going to be $43 a week worse off. How does that add up? How does that purport to be a Budget that is supporting working families in New Zealand and their children and raising incomes? Because that is not what this package is doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ENow, there are some measures in this bill that we think are good. We think that actually starting KiwiSaver contributions for 16- and 17-year-olds is not a bad idea. But it does not have to come at the expense of halving the contribution and the Government contribution. That is a choice the Government has made. We know that 18-year-olds today are going to be over $66,000 worse off by the time they retire had the Government contribution stayed the same; 30-year-olds are going to be $30,000 worse off when it comes to retirement. That\u2019s the kind of stripping out an expense we are seeing for these measures that are in front of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe also think measures to increase productivity are things that we should be exploring\u2014that each Government should explore\u2014and actually this Parliament should enjoy the debate about how we can increase New Zealand\u2019s productivity. I don\u2019t think there\u2019s a parliamentarian who doesn\u2019t know that we need to lift our productivity in this country. But the questions we have are the fact that only two options were explored. Some very orthodox other measures weren\u2019t even considered by the Government. Now we are considering these measures under urgency. It is about time we could have a real debate about this rather than the parroting off of the lines given to them by the Prime Minister\u2019s office. And let\u2019s discuss the reality of what is in the analysis that accompanies this bill. Because there are questions; we are in urgency. We are signalling the areas that we are going to want to delve into in depth when it comes to the committee stages of this bill, because New Zealanders deserve to know about this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe know that this is a Budget with a whole package of measures that is being paid for fundamentally by cutting that nearly $3 billion a year that was destined for the pay packets and pockets of women workers in this country. We also know that this is a packet of measures that is being paid for by cutting the Government contribution to retirement savings. When we think about retirement savings in New Zealand, I think we all know this is something we want to increase, not something we want to cut. I do not want to be setting up 18-year-olds today to retire with $66,000 less in income when they get there. And this is what this does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThey are raising the marginal tax rates of New Zealanders. They are striking hundreds and tens of thousands of New Zealanders ineligible, so it\u2019s about time we had a real conversation about who these people who are being rendered ineligible are, because there are a lot of New Zealanders paying a very heavy price for the Budget introduced today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u00224a811f03acdb425690eb3d727f1e0a00\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a811f03acdb425690eb3d727f1e0a00\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Just picture this\u2014just picture this. If they are so angry at this policy, picture this at the Fieldays on 11 June. Picture this at the cultural festivals. Picture this at the market days. Picture this at the home show. The Labour Party marquee\u2014OK, you\u2019ve got the Labour Party marquee, and it\u2019s got a big sign up and it says, \u201CAxe the tax write-off\u201D, and that\u2019s what they\u2019re promising. Let\u2019s see if they commit to that: axing the tax write-off, axing Investment Boost, where businesses can deduct 20 percent of a new asset\u2019s value from this year\u2019s taxable income\u2014vehicles, tools, plant, commercial buildings. Let\u2019s see if they want to axe that tax write-off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003ESecondly, on the marquee: \u201CRewind the default contributions on KiwiSaver\u201D. Why don\u2019t we bring back the contributions for $180,000-plus earners? Are they going to do that? No. Are they going to take back Government and employer contributions? No. Are they going to reverse the KiwiSaver contributions? No. So if we\u2019re going to make sense out of them tonight, they are the ones that are feigning opposition\u2014they are feigning opposition. And they know that this tax policy and they know that this KiwiSaver policy\u2014they\u2019re not going to change a thing. They\u2019re not going to axe the tax write-off. They are not going to rewind the KiwiSaver changes. They are locked in. And if they disagree, I ask the next speaker to stand up and say, \u201CWe will reverse the tax changes; we will reverse the KiwiSaver change.\u201D I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u0022c38ba3b010d9401b92ad07feba448985\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c38ba3b010d9401b92ad07feba448985\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E This bill is part of a full-frontal austerity Budget that the National Party Government are paying for through the wages of women and of our young people\u2014shame on them. I would like to say to Cameron Brewer: when you are gloating about the utes and the tractors and the diggers and maybe the boats and the other things that you can call business equipment, you are doing that on the sweat of women from my electorate. Between 60 and 70 percent of the women in the Taieri electorate work in the health and education sectors. That means that between 60 and 70 percent are involved in the 33 pay equity cuts that happened last week. It means they are paying for this Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s remember who those women are: they are nurses, they are midwives, they are care and support workers. They\u2019re psychologists, they\u2019re librarians, they are mothers, they are grandmothers\u2014and believe me, there are many grandmothers in my electorate who are looking after their grandchildren and still working on near minimum wage to bring up their grandchildren. You have just taken, the National Government, the money out of their pockets that they were expecting to get as a result of your miscalculations, and this bill is the centrepiece of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s look at young people, the 18-year-olds that will no longer have the $66,000 in their superannuation. Now, that\u2019s an average, but let\u2019s remember that many of them will be women. They won\u2019t get their pay equity claims through. They will be experiencing that pay gender gap. So the $66,000 is actually probably going to be a lot more that they will miss out on in their retirement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EWhen I think about the 14,500 young people currently in that age group who get $315 a week\u2014we know those numbers, and we know that Nicola Willis in her Budget cannot tell us what the threshold will be for their parents who will be paying for them. Now, how does one put together a Budget and not include the numbers with the threshold that will determine who will be paying that amount and who will not? It does not add up. That is one small example of many examples that we will see as we interrogate this bill where there has been a superficial process and there has not been the depth and the gravitas and the mathematics done in a correct way. That is why women are actually paying the price, because the maths wasn\u2019t done by this Government. That is why women in my electorate are paying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EWhen we look at families and we look at the means testing of Best Start, which is, effectively, a cut for those who will not get it, let\u2019s remember that we still have not found the family that is getting a $250 a week tax boost from this Government. Where are they? They are not there. What we do know is that 61,000 families will be worse off by $43,000 a week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EWhen we look at housing, $1 billion is cut from the emergency housing budget. The Ministry of Social Development has already cut the number of emergency housing places from 27 in the Otago-Southland region to just three, between November last year and March 2025. They have declined more than 100 emergency housing grants, and guess what! Ministry of Social Development rental properties in Dunedin are not that much lower than Auckland but our people get half the subsidised amount. How can this Government justify cutting a billion dollars of housing and leave people in the Taieri electorate, in the Oval, who have been in the media, out in the cold, living in tents? It is disgraceful and it is not just adults; it is children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESo there are lots of things the Government could\u2019ve done in this bill that they have not, but instead what they have done is they\u2019ve favoured landlords, the 346 landlords who own 200 properties between them. They each get $464 million worth of tax cuts. They have favoured the ASB and the ANZ. They\u2019re going to pass legislation to make sure that those people who were ripped off by big foreign banks will not get the money that is owed them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThey are repeating history, actually. For those of you old enough to remember, those at home watching, one of the worst decisions made ever in this Chamber was on 15 December 1975, when Mr Muldoon cancelled the superannuation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f9983f550ed4a719fb3e0d088bd1218\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired. [Interruption] Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1b155e2ab4b457aa3468b4311c5dc35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1b155e2ab4b457aa3468b4311c5dc35\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E Well, this is a great growth Budget. Growth is good. But, one more thing: the Government isn\u2019t the generator of economic growth; it\u2019s hard-working New Zealanders that are. It\u2019s the 50,000 farmers across this country, the 600,000 small- and medium-sized businesses, and the 3 million working people across this country. Growth is the answer to our short- and long-term challenges. This bill and this Budget are all about growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EHow great is the Investment Boost? Excellent. It is a great, productivity enhancing measure. But don\u2019t take my word for it. Take Barbara Edmonds\u2019 word, who recently said, on RNZ, when asked what\u2019s one thing she likes from the Budget, \u201CWell, umm, that tax break for businesses.\u201D That\u2019s what she said\u2014that\u2019s what she said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s talk about KiwiSaver. We need to grow our savings as a country. Tell me a country that is rich without a high savings rate. There is none. So this is great policy for New Zealand. And it\u2019s a great policy, as Minister Simon Watts talked about, for the young people\u201485,000 people across this country that will have access to KiwiSaver. It\u2019s such a great bill. I\u2019ll cut my speech there. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00223ab1025367164bea9a1a4126a283812f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ab1025367164bea9a1a4126a283812f\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Well, it\u2019s interesting when you take a little bit of a look at the media and try to ascertain how this Budget is being digested by New Zealanders. I looked at a few different sources, and one of them was Stuff. It has been running a poll, and 65 percent of New Zealanders say no to this Budget, and say that it doesn\u2019t help them at all and it\u2019s not much good. Then, when I watched TV ONE, I saw a man from a family, which was a farming family, and he wasn\u2019t really excited about getting some money off a tractor. He was more concerned about his superannuation and how he was going to be able to retire, and that was on One News tonight. He was worried about his own family and the cost of living crisis and the fact that butter was more expensive than what he was getting back in his Working for Families kickback. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s really concerning. It is concerning that, in general, the way that New Zealanders have so far seen this Budget is that they\u2019re pretty unimpressed. They\u2019re pretty unimpressed because it doesn\u2019t deliver anything meaningful for New Zealanders who are struggling right now, and that\u2019s the sad part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWhen we look at what this Government has done, it has really tried to balance the books based on working women having to shell out. So while it\u2019s nice what we\u2019ve heard tonight about all the incentives that are going to happen under this Budget and how it\u2019s going to go for growth, what it\u2019s really done is it\u2019s stripped it away from the working women of New Zealand, and what I think this Government hasn\u2019t cottoned on to is that women are just over 50 percent of the population. So, in an MMP environment, those percentages are really important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThere are a lot of New Zealand women out there right now who are pretty unhappy with this Government and what it\u2019s done, and the centrepiece of this piece of legislation that we\u2019re debating tonight, which provides a $1.7 billion tax break for business investment\u2014the going for growth centrepiece of the Budget is unlikely to boost investment much at all, according to Treasury. So this is an interesting point that those on the opposite benches haven\u2019t been discussing. According to Treasury and their analysis of the centrepiece of this Budget, it is estimated it would increase New Zealand\u2019s capital stock by around 1.5 to 1.6 percent over the next 20 years. Rua tekau ng\u0101 tau\u2014that\u2019s 20 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo the going for growth Budget that that side has championed and that side has cut the wages of working women for and that has robbed out of our superannuation for\u2014all of this has been forsaken for the centrepiece of a Budget that is going to produce a 1.6 percent increase in New Zealand\u2019s capital stock in 20 years. Now, correct me if I\u2019m wrong, but that doesn\u2019t seem like a very good business decision. In fact, that would mean that you\u2019ve just marginalised 50 percent of the population, who now think that this Government doesn\u2019t support women\u2014isn\u2019t supporting hard-working Kiwi women\u2014in order to pay for a 1.6 percent increase in New Zealand\u2019s capital stock over 20 years. Well, I fail to see how smart a Budget is that does that. In fact, I think it\u2019s a waste of good, hard-working Kiwis\u2019 time and effort. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThat is the problem with this Government, and that\u2019s what starting to feed back in the media. That\u2019s what we\u2019re starting to hear back in the feedback as people talk, and what they\u2019re saying is that there is no hope in this Budget. It doesn\u2019t give us a future we\u2019re looking for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIf you\u2019re maybe an 18- or a 19-year-old New Zealander and you\u2019re growing up in this country and you want to see a pathway forward into where you find your way, or if you\u2019re growing up in a household where there would be family violence or sexual violence, under the front-line service cuts of this Government, mental health care is harder to get access to, youth support and social workers are harder to get access to, and even family violence\u2014now that the police don\u2019t turn up, all the NGO providers are telling us that the police are not turning up to family violence and mental health call-outs. So if you\u2019re a young person growing up in a home and you\u2019re 18, you can\u2019t get the jobseeker benefit. You\u2019re left on the streets\u2014but wait, this Budget just cut $1 billion out of emergency housing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EA billion dollars has been cut out of emergency housing, while the Government is making it harder for 18- and 19-year-old New Zealanders to get access to the jobseeker benefit. On top of that, where are the job schemes? Are there any great job schemes in this Budget to help training to help employment? Oh wait, trade training for M\u0101ori\u2014that\u2019s been cut, as well, in this Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo you\u2019re cutting from the very people that you\u2019re putting into\u2014and making it harder for 18- and 19-year-olds to get a job, to get employment, to get a house, and to have some hope in the future. While we have to sit here and listen to the arguments for why this is such a productive and growth-focused Government, there is absolutely no key reason why this is driving growth, and when we go back to the very analysis of Treasury, it does absolutely zip. The centrepiece of this Government does zip for this, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWhen we look at what it\u2019s actually doing, there\u2019s less for young families and there\u2019s less for those that are struggling in New Zealand right now. This set of measures has cut the Government contribution to KiwiSaver from $512 a year to $260, along with an increase in the default employee and employer contribution from 3 percent to 4 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265298b6d54534592ba3cf94ef62ff8d6\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, great stuff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254ff721a5e7d4a10a98c66421410cda5\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Great stuff, but not so great if you want to retire comfortably in New Zealand. You make it harder for working New Zealanders to be able to do it. It\u2019s $66,000 less, if you\u2019re 18 years old right now in New Zealand, when you retire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis Government has also agreed that it\u2019s going to make it harder, which is impacting directly on workers and those on lower incomes, and that\u2019s what this entire Budget does. This Budget is an absolute assault on hard-working people in New Zealand. You only had to be out the front today to look at and talk to those women who came and spoke today, and they were ashamed. They were frustrated and they were angry that 40 years later, they are still fighting in New Zealand for equal pay. How can you call this a growth Budget when it\u2019s impacting those people\u2014the very fabric of our society\u2014whom we rely upon to try and grow our country? It\u2019s cutting those people off at the knees and keeping their wages low at a time when there\u2019s a cost of living crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWhen we actually take a look, there was a massive opportunity for this Government during a cost of living crisis to actually look at how they could provide some help and some relief, and the only thing in this Government\u2019s Budget is a centrepiece of a 1.5 percent increase over 20 years. What is that doing to put food on the tables of hard-working New Zealanders? What is that doing to help put lunches on the tables of schoolkids who have to eat the slop that\u2019s being dished out under this Government? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s absolutely unbelievable, and, on top of all that, the Government has cut spending on housing, mainly by shifting $188 million of M\u0101ori housing operational funding into the general spending bill and by reallocating capital spending out of that area. For those people who can\u2019t get on the list for emergency housing, there are further cuts already going through that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis is a Budget that is really designed to hurt those who are already struggling in New Zealand, and that is exactly the sentiment that is coming back now. As we hear people\u2019s feedback and as we see those news stories feed through, and as people start to take a look and see what this Budget actually does for them, people are realising that it does nothing. It just takes away from people who are already struggling\u2014and those people opposite know that. They\u2019ll have to turn up in their electorates and talk to those people who get less from Working for Families, or who have an 18- or a 19-year-old in their home who is struggling to find employment or training or hope or opportunities in life, or to those people who are struggling to get mental health assessment or treatment, or who are struggling to get someone to turn up when there\u2019s a family violence call-out, because the very parts of our society that need to be connected are being severed by this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThey\u2019re being severed by this Government in order to fund 1.6 percent growth over 20 years, and while we can sit back and hear how great it\u2019s going to be at Fieldays with the rebate and \u201CYou\u2019re going to get some great tech.\u201D, what\u2019s the cost? What is the cost of that for New Zealanders? You are paying for that off the back of working women, and they\u2019re not going to go away. They\u2019ll keep coming, they will keep talking, and a whole lot of them used to vote National. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022 data-id=\u00220bcb2d7f82474d778b5d2ff16364eda3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220bcb2d7f82474d778b5d2ff16364eda3\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National):\u003C/span\u003E National supports this bill. This bill matters because\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022604190bff38d4d78961561acec8f9166\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I was watching just up in my room a little bit ago and I noticed that you said in your ruling if one of us was to return we could take the final call. I\u2019m happy to do that if that\u2019s your will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272b551a6771c4607a9d43429b16c4589\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Which will be the next call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b8bfdeb283c40fba2195950fe3242f9\u0022\u003ENANCY LU\u003C/span\u003E: National supports this bill because this bill matters for businesses and the economy to grow through investment. So tradies, manufacturers, small businesses, farmers, business owners, employers, this is a clear message for you: the National Government have got your back and we\u2019re helping you to grow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003ESo, Opposition, listen in. If you have not read the regulatory impact statement, at least read the front page. It means new capital investment from nearly all sectors across the economy would benefit from the policy. So read the front page. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EBut guess what! The regulatory impact statement also shows the changes to the KiwiSaver will leave people significantly better off in the long run. A typical KiwiSaver balance for the first time will help homebuyers grow 9 percent under the new changes, while a person\u2019s balance at 65 would grow by 26 percent. That is an extra $102,817 for retirement. Now, tell me, Opposition, that you would be saying no, and voting down an extra $102,817 for Kiwis to retire. Tell me that you\u2019ll be voting that down. But don\u2019t worry, this is the \u201CBS Budget\u201D, because it\u2019s a \u201CBarbara Support Budget\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u002250bc0ee82c7c48e682399ad771fd0e71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250bc0ee82c7c48e682399ad771fd0e71\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I already made a contribution in the first reading, and I\u2019m happy to take a short call now, Madam Speaker, thank you. I think I heard Dan Bidois refer to this as a gross Budget\u2014I think that\u2019s what he said. It is a gross Budget. I agree with him entirely: it is gross. It is grossly unfair, it is grossly unjust, and it is disconnected from real communities, particularly the communities that I come from. So to assume that you think you know, in your own comfortable and privileged scenario, is a joke, and shame on you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThe other\u2014well, it\u2019s a muttering, but when somebody, particularly on the other side of the House, talks about the facts of the matter and doing a fact check, surely they mean fictional check. To have actual facts about what is going on, particularly in our M\u0101ori communities, but in our smaller rural communities\u2014from what families and wh\u0101nau tell me, it is far from the truth. In fact, the email that I just got\u2014one just came down\u2014said, \u201CThese people are barking mad.\u201D I couldn\u2019t contest that idea. I probably think it\u2019s quite true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EWorking for Families\u2014well, it\u2019s the absolute opposite of that. It does not work for families, it does not work for children, and it does not work for real people with real plans, aspirations, and dreams. It doesn\u2019t work, and it won\u2019t ever work until there\u2019s a better listening, particularly for smaller communities; M\u0101ori communities. The only way you create a better listening is you educate yourself about what\u2019s really going on, so I\u2019m happy to send some books.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EOutside, earlier today\u2014and I did refer to this in my first reading speech\u2014there were the loud and clear voices about this pay equity nonsense. I\u2019ve heard in the House a few times that we\u2019re scaremongering\u2014that this is what\u2019s going on. The fact of the matter is everyone that was out there today, they know exactly what\u2019s going on. They don\u2019t need any scaremongering. They know what\u2019s going on. Why do they know? Because the impacts of what\u2019s run in that equity\u2014which is a bit of an ironic word in this situation. They understand what it means for them. They\u2019re not beguiled by the stuff that comes out of here. In fact, they\u2019re probably laughing at it all. They know exactly. So scaremongering\u2014that is not what\u2019s happening, certainly from our party or any other on this side of the House. They know the reality. They understand the reality. Unfortunately, what they are feeling and recognising is that no one is listening, particularly on the other side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ESo I wanted to make those points, and, in particular, I just want to say there\u2019s no possible way Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori will support this barking-mad thinking. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d1c28ba5d7a94083bfdb2ce2a6cf5bf1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Taxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2) be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000581\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002275c76962ef4748baa2856c7e32012222\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275c76962ef4748baa2856c7e32012222\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is set down for committee stage immediately. I declare the House in committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002287db9e3a36d2458db6b4ff372141fc7a\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d9e5dad57f6c4d7b9ad389ddcd7b5ec6\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to Income Tax Act 2007\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0e4cbca9008431d9f9a2edd41fa6188\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0e4cbca9008431d9f9a2edd41fa6188\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Taxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2). Members, we start with Part 1, the debate on clauses 3 to 16, \u201CAmendments to Income Tax Act 2007\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u00228c19d3d783bd49b8aa6ed791f65744d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c19d3d783bd49b8aa6ed791f65744d1\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. A very good evening, members. I\u2019m looking forward to a good committee of the whole House stage of this Budget bill. I just want to provide some context in regards to Part 1, clauses 3 to 16, \u201CAmendments to Income Tax Act 2007\u201D. Primarily, the policy background in this context, and as part of this Part 1, relates to Investment Boost, which is a partial expensing regime and has similarities to other forms of accelerated depreciation. It would allow a deduction of 20 percent of the cost of new investment assets in the income year the assets are acquired. This deduction wouldn\u2019t lower a business\u2019 taxable income, and, therefore, the amount of tax that that business pays. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EInvestment Boost would provide a business with a timing advantage, allowing it to make earlier returns on its capital investment that could be used to further invest in its business. The deduction would eventually be recovered in the form of a lower depreciation, or depreciation-like deduction, in subsequent periods. The objective of Investment Boost is to encourage capital investment in New Zealand, and greater capital investment would increase New Zealand\u2019s capital intensity, which, in turn, increases labour productivity and wage growth. There are a number of other aspects in the context of Part 1, and I\u2019m happy to take questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022315e176b916b4c70b9f179526277aeb5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022315e176b916b4c70b9f179526277aeb5\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, thank you for the call. I want to spend a little bit of time just setting out how the Opposition intends to focus on this bill and then to move to questions on a particular clause. Now, this bill is part of the Budget tax measures. We\u2019ve had it in our hands since about, oh, sometime earlier today, sometime this afternoon, which is fine\u2014very considerately, we actually got the bill itself during the afternoon, but we only were able to access the regulatory impact statement, the departmental disclosure statement, and so on, at about 4.45 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, of course, this is all going through under urgency. It\u2019s not actually clear to me exactly why this particular bill needs to go through in urgency. The Minister of Revenue has said it\u2019s so that there weren\u2019t people delaying investment decisions in order to take advantage of a tax credit, but he could\u2019ve just set the tax credit date to start from today, but we could still have debated the legislation through to tidy up some of the details and things like that. It wasn\u2019t strictly necessary to have that going through in urgency. However, that\u2019s the Minister\u2019s decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWhat it does mean is that we haven\u2019t had a select committee process and we haven\u2019t had the opportunity to examine this bill in depth. We have some very real concerns with the bill, concerns that could have been debated in select committee. I have some concerns even with some of the drafting, some of the stuff that likewise would\u2019ve been picked up in select committee and perhaps dealt with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWhat we intend to do is to go through it clause by clause. Now, rather conveniently, just on a pretty straightforward clause by clause basis, it does divide quite conveniently into three clear topics. Even just going clause by clause, it divides quite clearly, first of all, into talking about the accelerated depreciation that the Government is putting in place through this, and they\u2019ve referred to that as an investment boost. It\u2019s interesting, because the regulatory impact statement refers to it as partial expensing. So I\u2019m going to talk about the partial expensing, because that seems to be the words which the experts would use\u2014yep. So I want to talk through those partial expensing rules. That\u2019ll be the first topic we concentrate on as the Opposition, taking our first opportunity to examine this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThen we intend to move on to the clauses that deal with the changes to Working for Families. There are some very serious questions to be asked there, especially around the 61,000 families who are worse off as a result of those changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThen, finally, we want to move on to discussing the changes to KiwiSaver, which have some pretty significant changes in them around eligibility and around removing the tax credit for people earning over a certain amount of income. So a lot to talk about, some of it very technical, and, of course, we do want to discuss the policy detail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, as it turns out, when we look, just going on a clause by clause basis, in terms of the partial expensing, the way that we very much want to do it\u2014I think we do want to discuss the policy, and I think actually the best place to discuss the policy in general is going to be when we get to clause 5. Now, clause 5 inserts a whole new subpart into the bill to deal with this partial expensing. So that\u2019s where we do want to have the general policy discussion, and I imagine that that will go on for a little bit of time, because this is a very significant policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EBefore we discuss clause 5, as it turns out, there is another clause, clause 4, and it\u2019s new section CC 15 that is inserted into the Income Tax Act. Now, this takes a little bit of explanation, and I will be seeking an extra call just to get to the question on this one. So you can see we clearly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c560ad9f665947568ac2a889b45237fb\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you could\u2019ve done it in the first minute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222edb4ba262de4dafac54bb0c6cb6b196\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: We haven\u2019t had a select committee; shush over there. So, having set out quite clearly\u2014quite clearly\u2014how the Opposition intends to deal with this bill, and I\u2019ve given us a really clear road map so everyone knows what to expect, I want to turn to CC 15. Before I was interrupted, I was going to explain to the members over there, who\u2019ll probably need this explanation, that Part C of the Income Tax Act is where there are rules around income and how we measure income. That seems odd, because, of course, this is all about getting an extra tax deduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe point of this partial expensing is to give an extra tax deduction, but then, immediately, the very first clause sitting in here inserts a new section into CC\u2014[Bell rung] Mr Chair, I would like to carry on. Thank you, Mr Chair. I want to understand: first of all, there\u2019s this new section CC 15, and what it is doing is, if a new investment asset\u2014so there\u2019s a whole new entity of assets, our investment assets, and there\u2019s obviously a case, when people buy assets for a business, often there\u2019s a split between using the asset for a business and using the asset for personal use. The obvious instance in that, Mr Bates, would be a car or something like that that is used for, you know, a business use and for personal use. But, of course, an entity can buy an asset and have the split between business and personal use, but then they need to change it, all right? So there\u2019s a change that goes on. So maybe after a year or so, instead of it being a 50/50 split, it\u2019s a 30/70 split or something like that, or maybe it\u2019s a 40/60. So you need a change-of-use formula.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, there\u2019s a couple of questions I have here, and the first one, having got into it, is CC 15(1)(b), \u201CThe change results in a 25 or more percent reduction in the amount of the deduction if the asset were treated as acquired by the person on the original terms and conditions immediately after the change of use.\u201D I think that maybe there\u2019s a comma missing, maybe the phrases are in an odd order, but just reading that, just as an ordinary reading of it, we\u2019re trying to adjust and we have to have a reduction in the amount of the deduction that would be allowed if the asset were treated as acquired by the person on the original terms and conditions immediately after the terms of use.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWhat I don\u2019t get is\u2014I guess I almost want a plain English explanation of that, because I can\u2019t quite read the phrases through, I feel as though\u2014\u201Cacquired by the person on the original\u201D. This is where I\u2019m losing it. You know, I read tax law, and I can\u2019t quite read this particular clause through. The original terms and conditions\u2014acquired by the business, acquired by the person for personal use. What do we mean on the original terms and conditions? I\u2019m just finding it really hard to parse that particular phrase. I wonder if the Minister could actually just explain it to me a little. So\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c444b68e6c404b26a345cd299d03f90d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, could you just tell us where you are?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cb64a6ac55f4ba2a888dffe0de66ac9\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: CC 15(1)(b); it\u2019s in clause 4 of the bill, and it\u2019s the phrase that says, \u201Cif the asset were treated as acquired by the person on the original terms and conditions immediately after the change of use.\u201D I don\u2019t know whether that means we treat it as the person as they originally acquired it, but they originally acquired it and then split it between business and personal use. Or is it the split between business and personal use on the day after the change of use? This is genuine. I\u2019ve tried to understand what the officials were trying to get at here, and I think there\u2019s an odd phrasing. Maybe it just takes a comma, maybe a phrase needs to be flipped around in a different way; maybe a drafter could fix this one up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EAgain, it\u2019s one of those things we could\u2019ve kind of worked our way through in select committee. I get the reason for urgency, but I do want to get the explanation here. If I\u2019m getting confused by it, I\u2019m going to suggest that other people could get confused by it, too. This could end up in a court if we don\u2019t get the phrasing right, so I\u2019m going to invite the Minister to allay that concern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u002272e7e3e60b4143d891a1202817234d58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272e7e3e60b4143d891a1202817234d58\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll keep my contribution short because it really does pick up on the point made by my colleague the Hon Dr Deborah Russell in \u201CNew investment assets: change of use\u201D, new section CC 15, subsection (1)(b). Again, when we\u2019re looking, it would result in a 25 percent or more reduction. I\u2019m interested to know why the Minister of Revenue has landed on that particular threshold. It feels unusual: often they will have 20 percent. It feels like it has a granularity to it or specificity that means that it has to be a very precise amount. Often, in tax law, we would expect it to be a more proximate amount.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EMy second question is just around if the asset were treated\u2014again, supplementary to Dr Russell\u2019s questions\u2014treated by whom? As treated by the purchaser, treated by the user, or treated by IRD? That\u2019s not clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EWe also talk about the person on the original terms and conditions immediately after the change of use. Change of use: does that refer to the change of use from personal to business\u2014which I suspect it does but is not clear from the phrasing\u2014or does it mean that there could be a different use? For example, if there was a vehicle and it was originally used on a farm for a particular purpose\u2014might have been a business purpose\u2014and then it is used for a different business purpose, does that qualify? What about if it was a personal use and then changed to a business use, but, actually, the functions were the same? So the vehicle might be doing exactly the same rotation around the farm or doing exactly the same action, but one action is for personal use and one is for business. Then what is the methodology that the Minister is using to assess that? Is it to do with the time frame in which it is used? Is it to do with the output of the activity? Is it to do with who is using the equipment? How is that recorded?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EAgain, going back\u2014given it\u2019s all one phrasing to the specificity of 25 percent\u2014how confident is he that this is going to be something that can actually be accountable and that we\u2019re not just relying on returns and the goodwill of people to do this because they are going to get, effectively, a tax break and we do want to incentivise productivity. But it would be very easy, if this is not clear and if there\u2019s not a way of accounting for it, for people to game the system. So I\u2019m really keen to hear those answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022e74eb6d1803945da95dc83adc83832c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e74eb6d1803945da95dc83adc83832c1\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I just want to, if I may, just in the context of back and forth, clarify the clause, because the member quoted 15(1)(b). We can see 15(1), but not a (b). Can we just clarify, that is what you said? Sorry, I just want to make sure we\u2019re answering your question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f0cfba762114350b289deebf3f842b9\u0022\u003EHon Dr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m happy to bring this to you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b253289a95b464984e6019d859d17ad\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: From the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c810990932d4a18b081abfd2e473442\u0022\u003EHon Dr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e302d2080b1d4479b77c9f78ce45efbd\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Page 2?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b4c29a7ab3a402aae001b7e949e0559\u0022\u003EHon Dr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, so it\u2019s clause\u2014oh. Mr Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226328609f9d894321ba3c6bfbf10edd4a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Happy to have a back and forth, of course\u2014back and forth call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022484b059a957948dca997db12219ab2a4\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Back and forth. Yeah, I want to answer your question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022610cc17bc3814581aaf0c28f40456498\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022610cc17bc3814581aaf0c28f40456498\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s clause 4 of the bill, and it inserts new section CC 15. So it\u2019s new section CC 15(1)(b), OK? I\u2019m sorry, it\u2019s because I\u2019ve got notes on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022676ae765dece44d28b8eeb1d661a4b57\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022676ae765dece44d28b8eeb1d661a4b57\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E No, that\u2019s no problem. Thank you, member, for clarifying that. We\u2019ll come back, just in the context of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ETo the question just asked in regards to the change in the use of the asset, as the member is assumed, she has assumed correctly that in the context of a personal asset, then that asset use can change and, therefore, it is subject to no longer being a personal asset, and, likewise, it can go the other way from a business asset to a personal asset. So I\u2019m just confirming the member\u2019s point around that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb29d14f249e477eb06da6ce17c9d9cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb29d14f249e477eb06da6ce17c9d9cd\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I know that we are all currently still focusing on clause 4, inserting new section CC 15, but I think if you\u2019re looking at a broader question now, the other side asks us, \u201CRead the regulatory impact statement (RIS).\u201D, which is what we\u2019re doing. I think, if you go past the first page, there are some questions that I have that do raise concerns, particularly around the fact that, yes, I think, on balance, based on the regulatory impact statement, the partial expensing may show as a simple way or an easier way of dealing with it. I guess the first question is: why, then, were large structural reforms potentially not considered as an option? Because that seems to be coming through, apparently, in the RIS.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe main thing about this is actually on page 4 of the regulatory impact statement, where it does say that there is significant uncertainty about the magnitude of effect and how benefits would be distributed across the economy. I guess, on a broader scale\u2014again, we\u2019re doing this under urgency\u2014how would the Minister foresee the mitigation or potentially the lower variability in terms of the magnitude of effect? As in, how do we know that this is genuinely going to do what the Government wants it to do? Also, how would you then ensure that there is equal distribution across the economy, and not disproportionate distribution across the economy, depending on industry? So that\u2019s one of my broader, policy-based questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI guess the other question is\u2014here, it says Treasury, IRD, and the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment are the only three that have not been consulted. So I\u2019m just confirming that these are indeed the only three that have not been consulted, and no other agencies were consulted? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EIn terms of the risk questions: lastly, again on page 4, it does say that the practical risks potentially are mitigated, but a number of other countries have implemented similar regimes. Would the Minister be able to list some of the countries that have implemented similar regimes? So that way we are able to at least know, on balance, whether the broader tax ecosystems in these countries are actually comparable, as opposed to siloing the partial expensing specifically in this context. Now, those are three of my questions in terms of the regulatory impact statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EMoving on to the bill itself, we\u2019ve heard our colleagues\u2014the Hon Dr Deborah Russell as well as Ingrid Leary\u2014asking a number of questions around CC 15(1). I actually have a question around new subsection (2), in terms of the calculation for less than 25 percent change in deductible use, and on whether\u2014I\u2019m using the example that is on the bottom of page 4\u201425 percent is the right balance there. So I wanted to check with the Minister if anything other than 25 percent was considered when looking at the formula for deductible use between new use and previous use? Then there are a number of questions around the definition of \u201Cnew use\u201D and \u201Cprevious use\u201D as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EMy final question when it comes to\u2014at this stage\u2014CC 15, is new subsection (4), and new subsections (4)(a) and (4)(b). This is the thing that I think is a little bit confusing and potentially could cause confusion, which is at the end of new subsections(4)(a) and (4)(b), on the \u201Cnew use\u201D and \u201Cprevious use\u201D, it talks about \u201Cexpressed as a decimal\u201D, whereas I was interpreting it not as a decimal but as a percentage. I assume the meaning over here is expressed as a single decimal as opposed to a number of decimal places. So, if that was the case, I wondered if the Minister would consider my amendment on this just to clarify that it is a single decimal place rather than decimal as a concept or as a mathematical concept, as opposed to a percentage. So those are my two questions at this stage on new section CC 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6939013087847a69aef4f6c5584df0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6939013087847a69aef4f6c5584df0d\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I\u2019ll just acknowledge that, actually, this tax bill is 15 pages in total length, including all parts, and, as we know, most tax bills are in the hundreds of pages. So it\u2019s a very succinct and tight bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIn regards to questions around what other countries use partial expensing, Canada and the US are two examples that come to mind. There is a large number of other countries that also consider using those jurisdictions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIn regards to the amendment regarding clause 4 inserting new section CC 15(4)(a) and (b), no, I won\u2019t be taking up the amendment by the member in regards to restricting it to one decimal place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022f96dd5a183f24f27b3afc50c3740ee13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f96dd5a183f24f27b3afc50c3740ee13\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E In the spirit of responding to what the Minister of Revenue has said, the bill might only be\u2014how many pages? Did you say 15 pages? It may be small, but it is of great significance. It is a major Budget measure in there. We actually need to discuss it thoroughly and I believe we certainly need to discuss this very, very new piece of legislation on tax measures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI, too, have a question, and it follows on from my colleague Mr Xu-Nan\u2019s question\u2014and I have an amendment, which will be on the Table at some stage, being prepared\u2014around new clause CC 15(2), inserted by clause 4, with the 25 percent or more deduction in terms of a change of use. Now, I get you have to choose some kind of threshold, but why 25 percent? Why not 50 percent? Why not 10 percent? Why 25 percent? How does that relate to other change-of-use thresholds? In the Income Tax Act, for example, when you have various mixed-use assets which are used sometimes for personal use, sometimes for business use and if there\u2019s a change in use there\u2014I\u2019m thinking of holiday homes and things like that. What is the kind of point of flex? I\u2019m just trying to seek a little bit of assurance around the flex on that as to why 25 percent rather than 33 percent or 10 percent or whatever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESomeone a little bit more familiar with the new way of doing mathematics and doing the operating order in mathematics\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e5abe0bbeae476585301ca066c44c20\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: BODMAS.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224119668be7e04cb19ae576dd7792d98f\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014might be able to\u2014modern maths?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca35d0fb80e74a5f8d9e79f4ea6b16d3\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: BODMAS.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed8a4efc01cc4b2eb96073fda425dd79\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, right. OK\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5f6af654d78421aaf163a4e745b6707\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Back to basics. One hour of reading, writing, and arithmetic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223be351744c35477fad53482873716b19\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: I have to say I don\u2019t need the back to basics; I did get bursary maths. So in new section CC 15(3) we\u2019ve got a formula there: \u201CDI 5 deduction \u2212 (new use \u00F7 previous use \u00D7 DI 5 deduction).\u201D I\u2019m old-school mathematics; I need the braces and the brackets and the operands and things like that. I\u2019ve just couldn\u2019t quite make that formula work. If the Minister is able to explain it\u2014I sort of do it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f59690c2466437dac6c299c5f375892\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Is this about the bill or the member?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c4796c67d0c44ec8fbdd65594cb550e\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: The way I do it is typically the divide and multiply done before deduction. So I\u2019m just checking that I\u2019ve got that sort of thing right. So those are just a couple of quite technical questions on that. If the Minister is able to answer that, that\u2019s great. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI think what might be very important\u2014and I think we\u2019re going to need to spend a little bit of time on this\u2014is to move on to a discussion of the policy here. It\u2019s an interesting policy. To be honest, having some form of accelerated depreciation is something that of course has been done in many cases. We used to have accelerated depreciation on new assets, then that was taken away. So I think we do need to start talking about the general policy here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIn particular, I think I want to move us on to clause 5. Now, this is the clause that actually does the work, that does the work of getting that extra deduction. The previous one is just kind of quite technical. It\u2019s a clawback type of thing. Clause 5 inserts an entirely new subpart DI and, helpfully, it has a purpose\u2014so new section DI 1 \u201CNew investment assets\u201D, and it\u2019s got a purpose clause. So this, I think, is the ideal place to discuss this policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI think the first question I want to ask the Minister on this is: why partial expensing now as opposed to accelerated depreciation, which we\u2019ve done before, and which might have been simpler to bring back in, just a range of accelerated depreciation rates? Why this chunky partial expensing instead of accelerated depreciation? Why not something just as simple as if we want to give business a boost along, it could have been done just as simply by reverting to the $5,000 thresholds for the low-value asset write-off threshold? Now, that could have been done just as well as well. Now, people in the House will recall that measure was brought in during COVID. The low-value asset write-off threshold had been $500 for a very long time\u2014certainly needed to be fixed during\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u0022577dab7941d64bb5af550fae59414597\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022577dab7941d64bb5af550fae59414597\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I still just want to get to the bottom of some of the questions that the Minister didn\u2019t answer. I appreciate his previous answer, but around the 25 percent, we have not heard a response on why that number was chosen. I\u2019m really interested, given what Dr Deborah Russell has raised, why it goes to deduction of 20 percent in clause 5. The second question is around the calculation in the definition of items in the formula in subsection (3) of new section CC\u00A015, inserted by clause 4. There is an example, and it\u2019s interesting that the example is actually placed in the bill and, therefore, will be used for interpretation. There\u2019s a really important sentence in there when it says since it has a 90 percent nexus with his business, and then it\u2019s got new sections DI 5(3) and DI 1, inserted by clause 5. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI\u2019m wondering if the Minister can explain to us the calculation in relation to nexus and the significance of that when it comes to how apportionment is done between personal and business use, because that will need some clarifying, and this will be a chance to get on the Hansard. Currently, it\u2019s not clear. Then the second part of that is the burden to prove that. Obviously, audits could show it, but there will be a requirement for\u2014I\u2019m assuming\u2014the person who is claiming the nexus and claiming the deduction to do it. What kind of evidence will they need in order to be able to make that case?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI would also like to know whether the Minister considered a different formula, a carve-out, or the equity in this presentation in relation to second-hand goods, particularly when somebody has purchased something from personal use and apportioning it to business or, probably more so, the converse, and whether there should have been a different formula to be able to make that fit with that section.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EFinally, yeah, just really trying to understand the deduction of 20 percent versus 25 percent in the previous section. Why those two figures were shown, is the first question, and what is the difference between them? Why were they not the same number?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022b083cebdf73a40d8896f2a9930c43043\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b083cebdf73a40d8896f2a9930c43043\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you very much, Mr Chair. I\u2019d like to provide a response to questions in regards to clause 4, inserting new section CC 15(2), in the context of why 25 percent was selected. Just in terms of the context and the background, if a taxpayer acquired an asset fully or partially for the purpose of deriving income and then subsequently significantly adjusted how they use that asset, they would have recovery of the income proportionate to the proportion of the asset\u2019s use that is no longer being used for business purposes. The percentage range of 25 percent was considered as an appropriate bright line as a threshold for what would be considered as reasonable change, and that is the view of officials in the context of why the 25 percent number is there. There is important consideration in terms of integrity here, and it is the view of officials that set and recommended that that it is an appropriate right to use, to ensure that the integrity of people not unfairly or unjustifiably using that mechanism is not going to be taken advantage of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThere was a question also in regards to other considerations of other types of depreciation. Inland Revenue extensively analysed a range of measures to increase investment, including loading and partial expensing. It was actually undertaken in the long-term briefing insight in 2022, and officials subsequently recommended partial expensing as the preferable measure and this Government has followed through on that. The context in the question around second-hand goods: these are excluded, clearly, in the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022122890a953e84d9e9c0b57c1f15d82f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022122890a953e84d9e9c0b57c1f15d82f4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the next call, I just want to, optimistically, ask members\u2014if they wish to do short questions and answers and we can get it going, we\u2019ll try to do that. But otherwise\u2014it\u2019s up to the members, but if they start doing longer calls, it will move the calls around more quickly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u002232e85a11c9f14fa4b0ab8e1e64fc8936\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232e85a11c9f14fa4b0ab8e1e64fc8936\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I largely want to focus my questions to the Minister in the chair, the Hon Simon Watts, on clause 5. Now, obviously, clause 5 is a very large clause in the bill\u2014\u201CNew subpart DI inserted\u201D\u2014and goes through many aspects of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EJust before I do that, one of the things that I want to ask the Minister about in terms of clause 4 is that the regulatory impact statement has quite a large section about the new capital investments and being restricted to New Zealand. Obviously, the policy intent is that you couldn\u2019t have one business use the partial expensing, then on-sell that asset, and another business then again partially expenses it as well, accruing that benefit twice. This is covered off in paragraph 31 of the regulatory impact statement. I just want to know from the Minister whether that is picked up with the provisions in clause 4 of the bill. So that is my first question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EMr Chair, I\u2019m not going to adhere strictly to the guidance you just gave the committee, because I do have a couple of tabled amendments in my name to clause 5 of the bill which I would like to speak to. One of those goes into clause 5, new section DI 5(1). DI 5(1) is the deduction \u201CFor the income year in which an asset becomes a new investment asset, a person is allowed a deduction equal to the amount calculated by the following formula: 0.2 \u00D7 (expenditure \u2212 contribution).\u201D Putting aside BODMAS on there\u2014brackets, order, division, multiplication, addition, and subtraction\u2014my amendment is to put 0.27 as one amendment to change the formula there, and another is 0.3 outside of the brackets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ENow, the reason why these amendments have been put up is that we really want to understand the formula and how it intersects with the policy intent of the legislation we\u2019re seeing here. We\u2019ve seen at various parts in the regulatory impact statement that the advice that was offered basically says that the 20 percent formula arrived at was largely driven by the fiscal envelope which policymakers were presented with. So what we would like to understand, given we don\u2019t have the chance in select committee, is the shape of the curve of benefits of such a policy. Does what was arrived at in terms of the fiscal envelope and the decision that drove it to be 20 percent, mean that only an incremental change may see a whole lot more benefit would accrue? And we might see more than that 1 percent over 20 years in terms of GDP growth, or 1.5 percent increase in wages. So I\u2019m just really wanting to understand the\u2014[Sneezes] Excuse me, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fe76eec01fa45d7b5c2a1d17fd99b23\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Bless you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5c2d0b0c1ec488c81010bd0aaaf7b2f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. It\u2019s so nice to have such affirmation from all sides of the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m really wanting to understand those intersections in terms of policy intent. Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022f457f2693fa744cbb75b9439c7ebd308\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f457f2693fa744cbb75b9439c7ebd308\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much. In the context of what you\u2019ve asked, let\u2019s do a little bit of back and forth. For the amendment in regards to clause 5, inserting new section DI 5(1), the member is asking whether the Government is going to be willing to accept an amendment that increases the deduction from 20 percent which we have made and put in the legislation to 27 percent or 30 percent. The short answer is no. The Government is being very prudent in the context of balancing a number of policies in this Budget, as has been outlined today, and that it\u2019s not an amendment that we will be considering. Obviously, we did consider a range of scenarios, which is outlined in terms of the context of the regulatory impact statement, and there\u2019s a range of cost implications in regards to that, alongside economic growth. But the decision in the legislation states that we\u2019ve landed at 20 percent, and that\u2019s where we are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u002226e83105b90d40989424887de25cc754\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226e83105b90d40989424887de25cc754\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman. I thank the Minister of Revenue for the answer to that, but what I would like to understand a little more is that I understand\u2014and the regulatory impact statement makes that clear\u2014that it is the fiscal envelope that was available that really did set the 20 percent rate. But one of the things, given we don\u2019t have the chance to explore this in select committee, is to understand whether changes a little bit above or a little bit below around that 20 percent formula means a difference in the accrual of the benefits that we might see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI understand and accept that the Minister\u2019s not going to accept those amendments. But for the purposes of thoroughly scrutinising this bill, this committee does need to understand what the trade-offs\u2014in terms of a change in that rate\u2014would be, and I invite the Minister to elucidate the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u002208564aafc7f140679dc278141e9c02a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208564aafc7f140679dc278141e9c02a6\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I\u2019m also speaking to new section DI\u00A04, inserted by clause 5, \u201CMeaning of new investment asset\u201D. The new investment assets are those subject to the 20 percent of the cost of the asset deduction and the amount of the usual depreciation deduction or depreciation-like deduction that would otherwise apply, but calculated as if the cost of the asset were reduced by 20 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EI\u2019m speaking to new section DI 4(a)(vi), \u201Can asset that is acquired with petroleum development expenditure:\u201D and new section DI 4(a)(vii), \u201Can asset that is acquired with mining development expenditure:\u201D Now, this is the bit of the bill that looks very much like it\u2019s got the hands of Minister Shane Jones all over it. I did see that the Minister was here earlier in this evening\u2019s session in his blue suit, and it struck me that the blue suit is as retrograde and tasteless as the extractive mind-set of this Government. It had to be said\u2014it had to be said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f54cc109ef754efb9e888825cc2ebaa2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Was that necessary, Mr Abel?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7160fa2cce84718a86b7701804366eb\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m sure Mr Jones would appreciate me noticing his blue suit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EI have a couple of amendments in regard to those particular clauses. But speaking to the point, it reminds me of a cartoon where there are a couple of gentlemen standing under the baking sun and the sweat is dripping from their brows and they\u2019re both digging and they\u2019re digging. One of them stops and he wipes the sweat from his brow and he says, \u201CThere must be a source of energy down here somewhere.\u201D The Minister spoke earlier: \u201CDon\u2019t talk to me about the sun and the wind.\u201D There are a trillion terabytes of sun energy that hit the Earth every instance; it\u2019s an obvious source of solutions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EMy proposal is that we amend new section DI 4(vi) and DI 4(vii), that they be removed, because they explicitly act, Minister, as a fossil fuel subsidy. My question is whether, in your consideration of inclusion of this, you took into account\u2014and it\u2019s convenient that you also happen to be the Minister of Climate Change\u2014the fossil fuel subsidy reform group that New Zealand is part of. New Zealand is a leading advocate for the reduction and, ultimately, elimination of fossil fuel subsidies internationally, according to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade (MFAT). What was the advice from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade on including these effective subsidies to the petroleum industry and the mining industry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EMay I outline what is on the MFAT website right now. It says, \u201CWhat\u2019s wrong with fossil fuel subsidies? Subsidies for fossil fuel consumption and production create trade and investment distortions. Making greenhouse gas emitting fuels cheaper to produce or buy is an incentive to use more and discourages investment in renewable energy. Subsidising fossil fuels also uses money that governments could spend on health, education, development, and climate adaptation.\u201D That is the New Zealand Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade on exactly why New Zealand does not traditionally support fossil fuel subsidies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EWhat advice did the Minister get, or the Government get, on this effective significant changing of New Zealand\u2019s position on being opposed, in the international community, to fossil fuel subsidies? Because these clauses clearly are a means, through the 20 percent of cost asset deductions, to support increased petroleum and mining development. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022c68b8aee1b884d9f99a43cd6f6fd39bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c68b8aee1b884d9f99a43cd6f6fd39bf\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. It\u2019s not a pleasure to speak on a tax bill, especially this one. I\u2019m going to talk about clause 5 here and the very issue, of course, of incentives and new investment. In principle, I support this. It\u2019s not a new concept. In fact, I can remember in the 1970s studying a little bit of accountancy where, in agriculture, the initial depreciation, I think, was up to about 50 percent. The equivalent here is 20 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe questions I have for the Minister, as was put by my colleague: why not 25 percent or why not 50 percent? If the objective, indeed, was to lift productivity, Minister, and I can see that, in principle, this is fine, but the definition of the asset as in the bill here doesn\u2019t require any new or additional technology. So it could very well be a new asset replacing an old asset. So the question for the Minister is: did he consider that there should be a requirement around new technology linked to that new asset?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u00222ca57bb3c05444a398211ce82b6b3407\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ca57bb3c05444a398211ce82b6b3407\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I\u2019ll keep the cadence of the questions a bit. Just in regards to the questions raised by the member in the context of allegations that the member felt that this was a subsidy\u2014well, it\u2019s not a subsidy. The depreciation is, obviously, an accounting principle. This is non-bias to any specific type of assets. It applies to all assets, and, obviously, a subsidy is generally preferential in its context and the way in which it\u2019s applied, so we are not biased in any types of assets\u2014all assets are in scope, and any value of assets are also in scope. So we won\u2019t be seeking or supporting the amendment, as raised by the member, in regards to clause 5, inserting new sections DI 4(a)(vi) and (vii).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIn regards to the point again raised that I answered before, but I\u2019ll give a little bit more clarity in the context of the percentage range of why the Government landed on 20 percent versus any other range. I can, for context, note that if you applied 100 percent loading in this, the fiscal cost would be in the region of $34 billion, so you can pretty much draw the curve in the context of the range of that. As I said, the Government made a policy decision in the context of the fiscal constraints we\u2019re operating under, and we believe that 20 percent is the appropriate level that balances out the costs and benefits consideration, particularly around economic growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIn regards to the last question around new assets replacing old assets, and whether technology should have been a factor: again, we have not constrained the manner in which this accelerated or partial depreciation regime will apply. It will be the case that, generally\u2014and I would hate to assume\u2014new assets are probably more technologically advanced than old assets, just by their very nature. So, again, we\u2019re not biasing that. Any asset is going to be in scope, unless it\u2019s specifically excluded under the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4f308cca3234b2baafcf19b4689acd6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4f308cca3234b2baafcf19b4689acd6\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Look, I just wanted to speak to the Minister in the chair. I had a bit of confusion earlier on about clause 4, new section CC 15\u2014whatever it was\u2014(1)(b). I\u2019ve worked it out. The Minister earlier on today\u2014or his officials\u2014circulated a version of the bill as a courtesy, so that we were given it as a courtesy before it was tabled. But, as it turns out, I think, Minister, an old version of the bill might have been circulated. So what seemed like a courtesy was perhaps not quite so much of a courtesy as it might have been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EHowever, I have checked through and I have looked at the newer version of the table. So I do thank the Minister for that courtesy, because we do appreciate it. Indeed, the new way that clause 4, new section CC 15 is drafted is actually much clearer. Ha, ha! I could see that your officials were confused as well as to what on earth I was talking about. Well, there we are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b32e82f6a16642c2853c88c73a582146\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Shared across the front row here, it was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f940243fa2c04cbfbd04153edfd23cd9\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: Cleared up that confusion, so I appreciate it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ELook, so I do want to talk\u2014I see that many of the Minister\u2019s colleagues are rather bored, so off they go then. So I do want to talk policy on this bill. It is actually quite important. Going to the regulatory impact statement and the economic analysis, this is quite an important point. I referenced it in my second reading speech on this bill, and that is just the level of uncertainty around this. So the justification for this is economic growth. Now\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022083225b788e143e9bf94b28f0fbe11c7\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: 1 percent over 20 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f33ae4a6fbeb4f07a64e98fc8b11cae9\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. Well, the justification is economic growth. So we want to be sure, but with this level of expenditure, a lot of money is going into this particular measure. And let\u2019s not forget that that money came from some pretty sad sources, so it has to be worth it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022190036fe819d46b597cd14643d9a3506\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: The Government doesn\u2019t own all the money to start with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a994128b37c4d05adfc28e9fa31403a\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: But sitting in here, for the benefit of Mr Seymour, in paragraph\u00A062, it says, \u201CThere is, however, a high level of uncertainty as to the precise magnitude of impacts\u201D. So we think it will be positive, but what I am interested in knowing is the range of the impact that it might be thought to have been. Did his officials present him with advice saying, \u201CWell, look, the impact might be between 0.2 percent and 1.9 percent or 3 percent or whatever\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI know there\u2019s been talk in the Budget documents that we\u2019re thinking it\u2019s going to be about 1\u00A0percent growth. Was that an average of the various possible growth rates that were projected as a result of this change in policy? Or was it\u2014I don\u2019t want to call it an educated guess, because that\u2019s unfair to our Treasury officials, but was it sort of the assessment of their knowledge, based on the bits of research they\u2019d been able to rely on and so on? I\u2019m trying to get at just how that 1 percent was come up with, given that the regulatory impact statement itself says that it is highly uncertain. How uncertain? What was the range? Can we be sure that it is worth going through all this, worth the cost to women, worth the cost to KiwiSavers, worth the cost to a whole lot of people to get this economic growth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa055ea921fc4628ae8a238f1db4a7bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa055ea921fc4628ae8a238f1db4a7bd\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E The Treasury operates comprehensive models in which it uses to make estimates in regards to the correlation between changes in tax rates and economic growth numbers in which we have used here based upon that modelling. We are the view that they are comprehensive and appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00221d5fad6291494741be00ce9bdec42a43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d5fad6291494741be00ce9bdec42a43\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I take the next call, just a matter of House management. I wonder if members would be aware that when someone is speaking, if they\u2019re coming to get papers off the Table, feel free to go around the other side so we can see who\u2019s speaking. You won\u2019t be accused of crossing the floor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u002256bf80d76fac42219caae90346d2f58d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256bf80d76fac42219caae90346d2f58d\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Look, thank you very much. I realise that where I\u2019m sitting here, your lateral vision may be limited, and you may start to develop some tunnel vision. I\u2019d hate to think that, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIf I can follow on from the questions that the Minister of Revenue attempted to ask and use the scenario, for example, of a farm. Some assets can be replaced but, indeed, not add to productivity at all. You can buy new tractors, you can buy new mowers, you can buy new harrows, you can replace every bit of machinery on your farm and have very little progress and productivity, because, ultimately, it comes from the cows and the grass and the system that you run.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI go back to the Minister and the assumption that this is going to drive economic growth\u2014and we accept that there\u2019s a potential to do this, but the absence of any qualifying statement around the assets in particular does not give any guarantee at all. Given that the fiscal cost of this has been the constraint of whether you go beyond the 20 percent\u2014and that there are going to be hundreds of thousands of women in this country who will be paying for this\u2014then we need to ensure that there is progress from this change in depreciation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe question is still not really answered. It\u2019s 20 percent because of the fiscal constraints. How does that affect productivity? Indeed, will we have a whole lot of depreciable assets that don\u2019t deliver any increase in productivity, particularly given the example I use, which is quite feasible in a farming operation where you can replace the tractors, you can replace the trucks, all the harrows, the whole lot? Ultimately, if you\u2019ve got the same number of cows, the chances are you may or may not get increase in productivity. That means that the Crown has just lost the revenue for no significant gain in growth. So, actually, this is a waste of time. If this is the one big issue that the Government\u2019s got, then we haven\u2019t made much progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u00222d0b69a98566415a9816f06a3126ac4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d0b69a98566415a9816f06a3126ac4c\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E As I said, this is a 15-page bill and we\u2019re getting outside of any specific clauses. But I can assure the member the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor that when I grew up and we had a David Brown 885\u2014which was a 1975 model\u2014that the new 250-horsepower John Deere is much more fuel-efficient today and that has a real impact on farmers\u2019 bottom line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022d91e42e283b544688a0ac8feea953dc4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d91e42e283b544688a0ac8feea953dc4\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I appreciate what the Minister in the chair, the Hon Simon Watts, is saying and that the Minister has answered a number of our questions. But, again, a lot of these questions are being teased out because, you know, we could have asked this of officials at select committee. But here we are, under urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe question that I have, first of all, is just going back to the response the Minister gave me earlier, which is around what other countries this model was taken from in terms of partial expensing, and the Minister specifically mentioned Canada and the US. Now, noting that Canada, for example, has both a capital gains tax as well as a form of windfall tax, and that the US has a form of short-term capital gains tax, there is a need for some elements of incentivising through partial expensing, which potentially is what they would have used. This is what I mean: when we\u2019re looking at something like this, or a policy like this, it can\u2019t operate in isolation; we need to look at the bigger picture of the tax ecosystem of those other places. In that case, what is the specific New Zealand context we\u2019re looking at here that can reassure this committee that there isn\u2019t going to be that significant uncertainty as named in the regulatory impact statement? So that\u2019s my first question in response to what the Minister said before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EIn terms of the bill, let\u2019s look at clause 5. I thank the Minister for answering two of my questions around clause 4. But when we\u2019re looking at clause 5, which inserts new subpart DI, new section DI 3, which is \u201CMeaning of new asset transferee\u201D, one of the questions I have is: when we are looking at a transfer of asset, what happens when the transfer of asset is applied to multiple ownership? In which case, how would this particular model be applicable when multiple ownership is in question? That\u2019s one of my first questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EMy second question is on new section DI 4, inserted by clause 5, which is \u201CMeaning of new investment asset\u201D. Now, my colleague Steve Abel has mentioned that when we\u2019re looking at the inclusion of petroleum and mining development expenditure, that is, in some ways, a form of subsidy, to be honest. The Minister didn\u2019t quite answer my question around the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade (MFAT)\u2014whether MFAT was consulted. Now, the reason I asked this is, again, when we are looking at this\u2014which potentially people may interpret as a form of subsidy for petroleum mining\u2014how would this work in terms of our international obligations as well, particularly to the New Zealand - European Union Free Trade Agreement? If MFAT isn\u2019t consulted, what risk and liability are we opening ourselves up to by allowing\u2014you can call it whatever you want; you can call it partial expensing, you can call it Investment Boost. The point is that mining and petroleum are included here. So I would like to know the risk assessment that has been done. But that is to do with new sections DI 4(a)(vi) and (vii).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EMy next question is actually on new section DI 4(a)(i) in terms of depreciable property, which then has included \u201C(for example, some commercial buildings):\u201D. There is a slight risk here. I would like to hear from the Minister on what risk assessment has been done\u2014that we\u2019re not going to get people who come here, investing in commercial buildings but simply land banking because, in some ways, those commercial buildings would not depreciate. We have seen a number of cases in Auckland where international or overseas landowners of commercial buildings will hold on to that land. It doesn\u2019t really matter to them whether they have tenants or not, so it doesn\u2019t matter to them whether they improve the local economy\u2014particularly when we have small and medium enterprises, and small-business owners that have business where everything else around them is empty. We have heard this from business owners, or small-business owners, both in Epsom and also in Auckland Central, when it comes to international investors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ESo, I guess, the question to the Minister is: what risk assessment has been done to show that this isn\u2019t going to be increasing or exacerbating the already problematic situation we have in certain parts of Auckland? So those are my questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u00226f4d6950ad5e43d193f0d4a2eb5c3bd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f4d6950ad5e43d193f0d4a2eb5c3bd4\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E The legislation does not apply to land. It does apply to new commercial building construction, and it would be fair to say that that would derive economic value and benefit for the broader economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve already answered the questions in regards to the other countries and jurisdictions that used it. There are a number of other countries that have comparative regimes in place that are also being put in place for the same purpose, which is to derive economic growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe other points that have been raised, I\u2019ve already covered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022626fb727375c499282e309105d7cf1ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022626fb727375c499282e309105d7cf1ff\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Again, before I just make another call: just bearing in mind, members, when you stand up and talk about another member having asked the same question, you are giving yourself up a little bit about repetition. What I\u2019ll just go back to, we\u2019ve had an indication that we\u2019re going to move through this, but we are now getting a little bogged down. Bearing in mind I know there is some more material here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9b3f43cf2cd46979542fc088b8767b8\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290f1971c68e24122821c5b92d7832307\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: If that is a closure motion to my right, I suggest that it not be. It may be an abuse of process for it to be. There is a long way to go in this, and I think if members are getting anxious on the other side, they should actually follow the bill, and you\u2019ll see there\u2019s still quite a wee way to go. But, of course, I will take a motion if anyone did want one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u002220ed8e50d6c54644bb28ab78f47c0d35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220ed8e50d6c54644bb28ab78f47c0d35\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman. I thank the Minister of Revenue for his explanation around some of the different asset classes. I take the Minister\u2019s point that this is, in terms of relativity with other tax bills, a relatively slim piece of legislation. But I would also make the point to the committee, as we understand, that, really, the bulk of the policy is in this clause 5\u2014this is the clause of the bill that does insert the new investment assets, and that cuts to the heart of this part of the change that we\u2019re seeing. So this really is the clause where that broad range of policy can be discussed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EMy first question for the Minister\u2014and I appreciate I\u2019m clarifying that, of course, land isn\u2019t an asset that is defined within this, but new commercial buildings can be. I wondered if the Minister could tell the committee whether or not build-to-rent developments, new commercial buildings, will be included in here as well, because, of course, build-to-rent developments have their own bespoke legislation where there are bespoke tax arrangements that are set out for them. So what is the intersection in terms of this legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe other question in terms of this policy, in this broader scope of clause 5, is really that what we\u2019ve seen in the regulatory impact statement is that it\u2019s really put up against changes to the corporate tax rate\u2014is the comparative policy throughout the regulatory impact statement for assessment. My question to the Minister is: although the final regulatory impact statement only compared this partial expensing with changes to the corporate tax rate, were there other forms of increasing productivity that were considered in the development of this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EFurther to that, even within that partial expensing, were there other forms and more targeting of partial expensing? What we\u2019ve seen from some of the questions is a very broad range of activities and assets that could be brought in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe committee is still waiting for an answer on whether or not the supply to oil and gas assets would bring us into contradiction with some of our free-trade agreements that we have in place. Was there any thought of targeting this to particular areas of the economy? We can see that it\u2019s very broad-based. But was any consideration given to targeting this policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EMy final question for the Minister, in this contribution, is around the table that appears within the regulatory impact statement. It is on page 12 of the regulatory impact statement. It lays out the different options. Obviously, status quo, then partial expensing, and then the company tax reduction. One of the things that the officials have identified in this table is that the partial expensing, the chosen policy does create some integrity risks. I just wonder if the Minister could elucidate the committee on what those integrity risks are. What are the mitigations? What are the ways in which we\u2019re going to be able to track whether or not we are mitigating those integrity risks, and how will the transparency around that come into play?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIn terms of the coherence of the policy\u2014it is identified in the regulatory impact statement that the investment incentive creates risks around capture by interest groups. What interest groups? Was that discussed in terms of which interest groups may be at risk of capturing this policy? And, again, what mitigation is being put into place to ensure that we don\u2019t have capture by specific interest groups? How is that going to be reported on and monitored? And what are the transparency arrangements around that? The advice says that it is minimised for the broad-based regime, but whether or not there are further mitigations that are being put into place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u00228aec7d8e3192410dab278d5686452662\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228aec7d8e3192410dab278d5686452662\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for the question. In regards to new section DI 4(b)(i), the question in regards to the build-to-rent, that clause of the bill, of which I\u2019ve just referenced, notes that dwellings are excluded as an asset, in the context of this legislation, and that will clarify that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIn regards to other forms considered, I think the member answered their own question in the context of the fourth question she asked in regards to that, but we did consider a corporate tax rate change; however, the view of the fiscal cost, and the fact that it was untargeted, meant that that wasn\u2019t carried forward. Again, we reinforce that this is not a subsidy, it\u2019s an accounting depreciation adjustment; it is unbiased to any particular asset, it is untargeted, and, therefore, by not biasing any particular asset, we don\u2019t have any concerns in the context of what is being noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe last question, in regards to integrity risk, examples of that may be where assets are used for unintended purposes or, potentially, where one of the asset classifications is excluded, and there can be potential integrity issues of people trying to push the limits in that regard. The way in which we\u2019ve mitigated that risk is we\u2019ve just put around $35 million of additional funding into IRD to increase compliance activities, and we believe that will be satisfactory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u002205aca824d77648469e537bae1022ff2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205aca824d77648469e537bae1022ff2a\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ve been wondering about the interaction of this new measure with the low-value asset write-off threshold, and so I\u2019ve just worked some pretty simple numbers through\u2014I just want to take the Minister through them, and it\u2019s simple enough math to do in your head, I hope\u2014well, I had to write it down. Think of an asset: purchasing costs $1,200. The low-value asset threshold which you can write off is $1,000. Now, under this new policy\u2014so the asset costs $1,200 and the business owner can get an immediate write-off of 20 percent; that\u2019s $240. All right. So asset cost: $1,200, then you deduct the $240, and that gives a remaining depreciable asset amount of $960.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, that\u2019s interesting, because under this policy, as it\u2019s written, that $960 would have to be written off over the life of the asset. Imagine it\u2019s an asset that is going to last 10 years. If you did it Straight Line\u2014I know most people do Diminishing Value rather than Straight Line\u2014but it would be $960 a year and gone. The thing is, that $960 is now below the low-value asset threshold. So could the business owner then say, \u201CHey, I\u2019ve got this asset. I bought it for $1,200, I applied the new partial expensing, and that takes its value below the low-value asset threshold.\u201D Could that business owner then use that to write off the whole amount in that first year? Now, I\u2019m assuming not, but I wonder if the Minister could just talk me through that and talk me through how the legislation either enables or prevents that. Thresholds are always interesting\u2014and we\u2019ve got more to talk about as we go through this bill\u2014but that\u2019s just a neat little puzzle there. I\u2019m quite pleased that the $1,200 minus $240 gives $960. Does that then get written off as though it were a low-value asset?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u0022462845be111d44a2a11bc598f4f339cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022462845be111d44a2a11bc598f4f339cc\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I want to just begin my contribution by reminding the committee that this is, effectively, the select committee phase, and normally in a select committee, we would see various iterations of the bill. As Dr Deborah Russell has alluded to, there was an earlier copy of the bill that was circulated today, and when I looked at the formula in new section CC 15, inserted by clause 4, in particular, there are quite big variations. I would like this to be the opportunity for the Minister of Revenue to explain some of the thinking around the changes in words, because they are quite significant, and, in fact, the example that has been given is completely different and this is in the space of a few hours. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EMy supposition is that there have been very, very hard-working officials doing a lot of work very quickly, but I want to understand, in the formulas, in particular, in subsection (3) of the original one, it talked about change of use, and then in the formula in subsection (4), as it now is in the later iteration\u2014the current one of the bill\u2014it says \u201Cnew use\u201D, and it also includes the phrase \u201Cpermissions and limitations applicable\u201D, which has not been referred to in the previous iteration, but I note it is referred to in the beginning of that section. So what are the permissions and limitations? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EIf I may, Mr Chair, I\u2019d be happy to sit down and have an answer and jump up, because there are a number of these quite quick questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5dfe1624b744093b0fff5ccf2984d9d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, carry on with your questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c66559356e24120b6855e7640457054\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY\u003C/span\u003E: OK, my second question\u2014thank you very much\u2014talks about original use. The term \u201Coriginal use\u201D was originally used and now it\u2019s \u201Cprevious use\u201D, and I\u2019m just wondering what the change of wording is there. Then, again in new subsection (4)(c)(ii), it talks about \u201Cthe amount given by the terms in the round brackets\u201D, and it\u2019s a much more complicated scenario than we had originally, which talked about depreciable property. I\u2019m wondering if there was an issue, because it seems to me that the fact that the words \u201Cdepreciable property\u201D were taken out means that there was a taxation definition in there that was problematic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI would also like to ask the Minister why the two examples have changed so significantly. On example 1 in the earlier iteration, just a few hours ago, we had Adam purchasing a new investment asset for $10,000. In example 2 in the current bill, we\u2019ve got Thomas buying a new yacht for $100,000, and we don\u2019t have any reference to the nexus, and the nexus seemed to be a really important part of the formula as it was explained in the previous iteration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThe other question I have is that the Minister himself talked about partial expensing and said that the rationale for that was out of previous research that had been done and that there were a number of scenarios looked at. But he did not give us an explanation as to why partial expensing was landed on, and so it would be good to understand why that was the preferred option, given there were a number of other ways of doing it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EFinally, picking up on the point from the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor around the level of the 25 percent\u2014and the Minister himself used the words, saying that from a policy and cost-benefit status, it seemed to be about the right weighting, or otherwise it was going to be too significantly expensive. I just want to know: did the Minister do a cost-benefit analysis\u2014a formal one\u2014and, if so, can we please see the cost-benefit analysis? Or is this something that the Government or Treasury officials felt from a sort of intuitive level, or based on some other analogue scenarios\u2014is that where they landed? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EWas there actually a formal cost-benefit analysis done, because it does seem it\u2019s been pretty rushed, particularly the significant number of changes on this fundamental formula, by which everybody is going to be making these deductions, and which has significantly changed in language over the course of about three or four hours. Minister, I\u2019d really appreciate your answers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00228a23d1ede5e648789df3e212e9160a80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a23d1ede5e648789df3e212e9160a80\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E I have quite a specific question for the Minister of Revenue, and it is around clause 5 and inserted new section DI 4(vi)\u2014\u201Casset that is acquired with petroleum development expenditure:\u201D\u2014and I just want an understanding of how this change fits with other announcements that have come in the Budget today. We\u2019ve seen the establishment of the $200 million fund where the Government will take equity shares in new oil and gas developments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhat I want to know from the Minister is: is it correct that someone could invest a billion dollars in a new rig here, get $200 million from the Government in terms of the provisions under this pledge, and not have to give up an equity stake to the Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022323ef9d7adde440086a2a48edca7bc06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022323ef9d7adde440086a2a48edca7bc06\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Just one final question, on the purpose\u2014so that\u2019s in clause 5, inserting new section DI 1, where we do have a purpose clause\u2014and it refers back to the regulatory impact statement (RIS). I refer, in particular, around this significant policy\u2014I want to refer to paragraphs 72 through to 76 of the distributional analysis. It\u2019s sitting in the partial expensing (Investment Boost) regulatory impact statement, and it says here, in part of the justification of this policy, that it is expected that this partial expensing regime will reflect an improvement of economic outcomes in terms of \u201Cwages and NNI\u201D\u2014I\u2019m not quite sure what NNI is\u2014for New Zealanders. It suggests wage growth and an increase to productivity. So the thought is that there will be an increase in the national income, an increase in business earnings, and so on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIt says here, \u201COur view is that the majority of the increase in national income will flow to workers in the long run as a result of increased capital intensity and labour productivity.\u201D Now, that\u2019s in paragraph 74. But that\u2019s kind of a curious thing to say in light of the work that has been done by Thomas Piketty, which has shown that since the war, really, increases in income and in wealth have largely flowed to capital rather than to labour. That kind of contradicts that thesis, which has been quite widely celebrated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to point to paragraph 75 in the regulatory impact statement, which says, \u201CInternational evidence provides mixed results on how the specific benefits of investment-targeted tax measures are shared between workers and capital owners. This makes it difficult to better assess the distributional impacts.\u201D But part of the justification for this policy\u2014this policy that is built off the backs of working women\u2014has been that it was going to increase wages for workers. But the international evidence contradicts that. The evidence of, you know, the economies in the 20th century contradicts that. The evidence from the major study that was done by Inland Revenue under the former Minister of Revenue contradicts that. So I wonder how it is possible to say, in this regulatory impact statement, as part of a justification for this policy, that it will increase the wages of workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, don\u2019t get me wrong, I do think that this policy will result in economic growth, even though we\u2019re uncertain about how much it\u2019s going to be. It is something that I think will actually have a positive impact on economic growth. That is a really straightforward conclusion there. But the question is: how much of that economic growth will actually go to the benefit of workers, especially when this economic wealth has been created by cutting the future wages of women? It\u2019s a really important question and it goes to the heart of the policy around this Budget and it goes to whether or not this is a policy that ought to be pursued. On its own, in isolation, probably. But to justify it by saying it\u2019s going to increase workers\u2019 wages? I think that\u2019s a pretty brave thing to be saying. I\u2019d like to understand from the Minister whether he agrees with the analysis and the regulatory impact statement. Possibly he does; he possibly doesn\u2019t. But given that analysis in the RIS saying that this is very uncertain that it might actually go to workers, why then has this Budget justified this off the backs of workers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u002271a7545c2199412eb9ca470619ab9714\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271a7545c2199412eb9ca470619ab9714\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Yeah, well, thank you very much, Mr Chair. Just in answer to a number of questions: there is no cap to the value of assets in regards to deductions, so it\u2019s as simple as that in the context of the example given before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe question in regards to wage growth in the context of the regulatory impact statement, paragraphs 72 to 74. For the member\u2019s benefit, the key way in which this policy will work will be to drive greater capital intensity, and the follow-through of that is higher wages. So I am confident in the context of the way in which this benefit will flow through and lead to increased economic growth and higher wages for working New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00227d27fe78f33f43aabeaeff18214194e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d27fe78f33f43aabeaeff18214194e2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I leave the Chair, I will be indicating to the incoming Chair tomorrow that the three parts of Part 1, indicated by Ms Russell at the beginning, that we\u2019re coming very close to the end of the first of those three parts, come the morning. So I would expect, come the morning, after a good night\u2019s sleep, there\u2019ll be probably an indication to move through Part 1 a little bit quicker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe time has come for me to leave the Chair, and the House is suspended until 9 a.m. tomorrow. Have a good evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 9.58 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Friday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505223e737b0a8ea3420ebbe63834e93551df000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220c79b3b35df54f9699ba9ff64468d7eb\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 22 MAY 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229d0b8b5a2e4b4156b7180ae09e30e169\u0022\u003E(continued on Friday, 23 May 2025)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227ad609e095cc4036bb42c7c4542e7840\u0022\u003ETaxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ef901e71adcb44279b1903aa5ff16a24\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022da55a357cc4b4b0f8439b97ce0882136\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to Income Tax Act 2007 (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002246f54ed1416040828e9c5f7c60ca3d1e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246f54ed1416040828e9c5f7c60ca3d1e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the committee is resumed. When we suspended last night, we were considering Part 1 of the Taxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2). Just to remind members, in the past, one approach has been for members to work through provisions or policies in sequence so that this tends to produce a more useful and focused debate. If members are wanting to discuss particular provisions, it would be useful to cite the clause number. That will assist other members who want to speak about the same provision. Part 1 contains the Investment Boost policy, changes to Working for Families, including Best Start, and KiwiSaver is in Part 2. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EI did speak to the Chairperson who was in here last night, who feels that we are largely working through the Investment Boost, and I know that the Hon Dr Deborah Russell has set out a bit of a context for how we should work. He also indicated that we\u2019d had quite a number of questions on it, so what I really want to do this morning, for the very first little part, is just focus on anything that might tidy up that Investment Boost section that\u2019s new and that wasn\u2019t asked last night\u2014it isn\u2019t a speech, but it\u2019s a question\u2014and I suggest we then start moving on to the Working for Families changes, following that. So this is in no way trying to shut anything down, but just to keep going with the process that we were up to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00224ccd5f3f4dfe4ee6a6b0429361e65707\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ccd5f3f4dfe4ee6a6b0429361e65707\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you for those directions. I think it\u2019s a really important direction. I want to focus specifically on clause 5. The particular part of clause 5 is the introduction of new Subpart DI 4, \u201CMeaning of new investment asset\u201D, and what I am deeply concerned about is the fiscal risks associated with this particular policy. Now, this is not something we discussed yesterday. The reason we didn\u2019t discuss it yesterday is because it takes time to get to grips with new legislation and understand the import of what is going on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe interesting thing about this partial expensing is that it offers a substantial tax benefit for new assets in New Zealand. It means that people can get an immediate tax benefit from a new asset, and amongst the new assets that could be considered there are things like commercial buildings and, in particular\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a1a01705b5f4aa19434169f0cc08b30\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: We discussed this yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c7d4670da9d4ab7baeb7722e5dacb25\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: Shush, and let the adults talk. Now, I want to\u2014[Interruption] And here is the problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ec18b410a0d425286428dc7fffce0bc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what we get with interjections, so let\u2019s come back to Subpart DI 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252fa2bec94e840d3880a856ed4046121\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: So we\u2019re talking about the fiscal risk. We did not talk about the fiscal risk at all yesterday, and it is substantial. It is $1.5 billion a year allocated for the tax break that comes through the partial expensing, but that particular tax break could be eaten up very, very quickly by just one or two mines or by a few commercial buildings, and, as Newsroom has pointed out overnight, if every single small business invests $10,000, there goes the tax break, just like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI looked in the statement of fiscal risks in the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update, and I couldn\u2019t find a specific fiscal risk associated with this particular policy. What I want to know from the Minister of Revenue is to what extent he and the Minister of Finance thought about whether or not this policy could just blow out\u2014that there is a really substantial fiscal risk associated with it. We actually need to know, because the Minister of Finance has promised us she is going to balance the books by about 2028, but if this policy blows out, we\u2019ve got a real problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThis tax break can apply to a whole new commercial building, and we know what they cost to build. They can apply to an oil rig. We could just get a few oil rigs in there, new to New Zealand, and suddenly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d692d3169c3e43ca9495319d1ed9610d\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: A convention centre.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2beb742485c4acb962e3c8b4e6f48cf\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014it\u2019s gone\u2014or a convention centre. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo I really want the Minister to now talk about something we haven\u2019t talked about at all, and that is the extent to which he and the Minister of Finance have considered the fiscal risks associated with this. It is serious, and I would like to know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022332d9d463add4672a8b76c56025cfbc6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022332d9d463add4672a8b76c56025cfbc6\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and, look, a very good morning, everyone. Welcome back to the growth Budget, and what a great Budget it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t mind doing a basic lesson in what depreciation is for the member because, in effect, what we are doing is increasing the rate at which people can claim a tax deduction by increasing it in the first year and the balance will be claimed for the rest of the asset life. This is a timing difference. We are bringing forward that ability to claim that tax deduction. We\u2019re not creating some new world or new paradigm of other aspect; we are simply moving that benefit forward so that New Zealand businesses can achieve a tax deduction from yesterday, and get the benefit of that in terms of less tax this year. That is a significant investment and opportunity for them as a business, but it in no way has any impact on what would be a normal rate of depreciation on any economic asset over the life of that asset. So the whole premise of the question is uninformed and without basis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EOur policy is very much focused on delivering that economic growth, and, heck, I mean, I guess some people in the House are concerned about too much economic growth. But on this side of the House, we think a little bit differently. We think economic growth is a good thing. It sort of helps us with a range of factors, including higher-paid jobs, a better standard of living, and more tax revenue flows, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227644c01342604bb682dd7f9320cd1c77\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s true, but that\u2019s not what the member asked the Minister, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca1777fd8f454a7a8f7465d771693b77\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member asked about the risks in regards to the policy, and I have clarified that it is a depreciation policy which is well articulated in accounting standards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022e985bedd06b041bcace23140f7734573\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e985bedd06b041bcace23140f7734573\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. As it turns out, I don\u2019t need a lesson in how depreciation works, and I am well aware that this is a timing difference only, so the actual fiscal cost comes from the time value of money. However, I remind the Minister that yesterday, when we were talking about the rate sitting in here, we asked why it was set at 20 percent and why wasn\u2019t it 25 percent, why wasn\u2019t it 50 percent, why wasn\u2019t it 10 percent, and so on\u2014why were we doing this partial expensing at 20 percent? The response the Minister gave\u2014and I don\u2019t have the exact words\u2014was that that value was particularly set at 20 percent partial expensing because it was to do with containing the fiscal expense that was associated with this policy. In other words, he said that we couldn\u2019t set it higher because we needed to set it at a level that contains the fiscal expense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, that suggests that there is a fiscal risk associated with this policy and that there has been some analysis of how much it was going to cost. We know it is going to cost. According to the Minister\u2019s own figures, the Treasury officials and the IRD officials have projected that it\u2019s going to cost $1.5 billion a year, but in the midst of all that, the implication there is that this cost could well blow out. That\u2019s the analysis that has come to us from other tax experts overnight. It\u2019s the analysis that\u2019s from a number of places, and I\u2019m going to refer to Newsroom and to interest.co.nz. These people have identified that this is a fiscal risk. Why is this fiscal risk not listed in the statement of specific fiscal risks in the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019ve had a look at the specific fiscal risks and it is simply not there, yet it seems to me that this is a fiscal risk. Even if it can\u2019t be quantified, it should be listed. There is a risk\u2014why is not listed there? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022 data-id=\u00228169cad7333547d0b94f20604e1418f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228169cad7333547d0b94f20604e1418f2\u0022\u003ECELIA WADE-BROWN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. M\u014Drena to the Minister of Revenue. I\u2019ve got a number of questions, and I\u2019d like to start with new section DI 4 in new Subpart DI, \u201CNew investment assets\u201D, in clause 5. I would ask the Minister whether we\u2019re talking about planting here\u2014\u201Clisted horticultural plants\u201D. I can imagine some that we might have some different lists of there, but what I want to ask is whether it would be appropriate to add native plants intended for regeneration. There are some quite bulk planting ideas either for carbon sequestration or, if we get there\u2014and I think the parties are relatively united in this\u2014eventually, biodiversity credits. I think it would be a shame if it didn\u2019t also apply to those. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003EOn the broader issues of the effect of this bill, I heard yesterday evening the Minister saying that he didn\u2019t intend to create any distortion across different businesses. However, surely this 20 percent expensing allowance means that you are helping capital-intensive businesses, rather than the creative industry, and what we\u2019re talking about there are the arts, fashion, publishing, film, software, gaming\u2014I have members of my caucus that are experts in some of those areas, and that is an opportunity for high-paid jobs, good jobs, and fulfilling jobs that actually are very light on the environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003EYou know, here we are in the smart, green capital. We\u2019ve got fantastic industry here, and I don\u2019t think they\u2019re getting the opportunity. This is about one kind of industry, not the other. So addressing that issue of distortion of markets, and what kind of businesses are likely to be invested in because of this, is one issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003EWith the last question I have for the Minister, I didn\u2019t even realise it was a change to the example. In the example used in new section CC 15 in clause 4, why on earth was the change made to put in a yacht as a great example of business deduction? I mean, who, when they\u2019re trying to struggle to feed their kids and when they\u2019re struggling to pay for early childhood care, is really pleased to see a yacht being used for business purposes? Now, there are some dolphin-watching yachts, there are some yachts that go round the Wellington Harbour, but I would argue that the majority of the yachts are really not a prime investment economic growth. This looks really dodgy. I\u2019d like to know the Minister\u2019s opinion on yachts for business deduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00220e8aa6c8ce35451ebf62928f2d791abf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e8aa6c8ce35451ebf62928f2d791abf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the Hon Simon Watts, I have to tell the people on my right that when you all talk at once, no one can hear a word any of you are saying, so please just be a bit more toned down in your interjections. As I keep saying, interjections are fine, but that was a barrage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022658fc8d31733465caf67ef4c623c792a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022658fc8d31733465caf67ef4c623c792a\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, members, for those comments, particularly from my left. In regards to the specific risks that were noted by the prior member, I had referenced disclosures on page 74 of the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update which outline the general policy changes and the implications in regards to the question around risks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThere was also a question in regards to horticultural plants. The view in that context is that those are generally available and are defined as part of the Income Tax Act in the context of what plants are there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ETo the comments in regards to yachts: well, look, the reality is\u2014and to all those New Zealand tourism businesses out there that do great things for our country, and they do so on our oceans and in our harbours and assets\u2014yeah, it\u2019s an example of a mixed-use asset, and the rule covers that context as well. I won\u2019t cover anything more on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIn regards to new Subpart DI in clause 5, and also in regards to the questions by members on new investment assets, I think we\u2019ve had a number of those questions, including last night as well, but I\u2019ll go through it again, just for the benefit of doubt. Investment Boost is available for most assets that are eligible for depreciation or for depreciation-like deductions. These assets include most depreciable property, including improvements to depreciable property, improvements to farm and forestry land and aquacultural businesses, and also, as noted, expenditure on the planting of horticultural products. Investment Boost would also be available for assets acquired in petroleum development expenditure and mining development expenditure, as this Government has outlined. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EInvestment Boost would not be available for assets that are residential property or fixed-life intangible property, including permits and rights. For assets that are used for deriving income and for some other purpose\u2014so, in effect, a mixed-use asset such as the yacht example that I have noted\u2014Investment Boost would only be claimable to the extent that the asset is being used for the purpose of deriving income.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI hope that that sufficiently covers the questions in regards to new investment assets, the definition, and the clauses, as asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00222490c3dbcfe547cfb0ed734493354b76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222490c3dbcfe547cfb0ed734493354b76\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Is someone wanting to take a call over this side\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8353f36d8b34a86a320f3ddcedd6e64\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022792d10e8cffc4e7ebc306e3ff0e06594\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014because we have not finished Part 1. So if it\u2019s a call, I\u2019ll\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a607243e8964023b04ea91ad3f123e9\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re all trying to take a call! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bed3ad2656745f69cbfed583b564b29\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I\u2019m going to call the Hon Dr Deborah Russell because I think we really are getting towards the end of Investment Boost and I do want to move on to Working for Families. I am going to allow another call, and then I think we will move on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00220b1ecea30b274dc1a00535a7d7987cfb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b1ecea30b274dc1a00535a7d7987cfb\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the direction, Madam Chair. I do have one more very specific question, but before I go to that, I do want to carry on with this issue of fiscal risk. It is important. The Minister directed me to page 74, I think, of the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update. Could I direct the Minister to page 89 of the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update, where it says, under the heading \u201CForecast Dependent on a Status Quo that is Uncertain\u201D, and then under \u201CRevenue\u201D, it has \u201CInvestment Boost (Revenue)\u201D, and it says, for the Minister\u2019s benefit, \u201CThe fiscal and economic impacts of Investment Boost are significant and have been based on some assumptions and judgements which have a degree of uncertainty. The modelled impacts use aggregate macroeconomic data as an input together with assumptions on coverage within the tax base, and forecasts of growth in investment. Variations in any of these factors can materially affect the fiscal and economic impacts of the policy.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s a pretty significant fiscal risk sitting right there, and it says it\u2019s an unquantifiable fiscal risk, so I really am asking the Minister to address this issue. Is there a downside risk that not as much will be invested in this policy as the Minister and his colleagues had hoped? What impact will that have on the projected growth? On the other hand, what is the upside risk of that\u2014that much more will be spent on this policy than the Minister had thought was going to be the case? What impact is that going to have on the Budget deficit over time? Does it mean that the Minister of Finance\u2019s projections of when we will be back into surplus, using either her spurious little OBEGALx or the traditional OBEGAL measure\u2014does it put those projections at risk?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESitting here, on page 89 in the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update, is an acknowledgment that there is a fiscal risk associated with this policy. I want to know more about the possible upsides and downsides, and to what extent this could actually impact on the growth projections or impact on when this country gets back to surplus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2583a4274ad40bb9c9421117fe143af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2583a4274ad40bb9c9421117fe143af\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Yeah, thanks very much, Madam Chair. Acknowledging that this question isn\u2019t about a specific clause in Part 1 and it is also a repeat of a question already asked, I will simply state the obvious, which is that all economic models have assumptions and judgments built into them, and that is standard practice in the calculation of economic growth and in deriving the implications and decisions that some 600,000 businesses may make from yesterday in regards to their investment decision-making. That is standard practice for any Government, and the assumptions and judgments made as part of that are considered appropriate by this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00223b691c3505c04ebfaaecbcfa2982060f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b691c3505c04ebfaaecbcfa2982060f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I now am asking for questions on Working for Families, including Best Start. So we are moving on from Investment Boost and we are going to Working for Families, including Best Start.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022f873b0b8d2fe4b589bef27011e00b8d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f873b0b8d2fe4b589bef27011e00b8d1\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you for your very clear directions, and I do genuinely appreciate them. It\u2019s much easier to work this process through in an orderly manner with those directions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWe do have some serious questions about the Working for Families policy. Now, the interesting thing is that it\u2019s only really a couple of clauses in the bill, but they have a really significant impact. I want to open with a policy discussion. This is where we get to discuss the policy around Working for Families and the changes here. What we know from the regulatory impact statement\u2014and it\u2019s on page 3, I think, of the regulatory impact statement, looking at the costs and benefits of this policy. We know that\u2014here it is, at page 3\u2014around 61,000 families would receive a reduction of income in these changes to Working for Families. So I want to know from the Minister why he thought it was acceptable for 61,000 families to end up with less income rather than more, and to what extent these families are ending up worse off in order to pay for other expenses within the Budget. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u0022c05ff07eedca4c64995d1cc55c5386f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c05ff07eedca4c64995d1cc55c5386f8\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Just a very quick question from me to the Minister. Regarding where the threshold has changed around the Working for Families tax credit, we\u2019ve heard commentary to say that in some ways this just lifts the threshold and, therefore, the squeezed area has moved upward. In terms of incentivising and encouraging families, when we think about economic growth and about productivity, it is, arguably, a disincentive for people to be able to increase their income when they are in that slightly higher bracket, because as soon as they do, they would be in the 64,000 families that would lose the credit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI\u2019m wanting to understand what consideration was given\u2014again, as a policy question\u2014to how to make sure that there are adequate incentives in the system to not have people then drop out of, for example, secondary employment or have them not want to move up into a higher, more specialised field in their current employment because they then risk losing this abatement. It really just is about the thresholds changing, but there has been commentary about this on Radio New Zealand this morning, which I think is quite appropriate, and I\u2019d like to know what thought the Minister and his officials have given to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u00224efc386f3add41b8b01e7a648c2bfc20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224efc386f3add41b8b01e7a648c2bfc20\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, members, for the question, and I\u2019ll take a little bit of time just to outline some of the key points in regard to this. First and foremost, it is really, really important to acknowledge that no families will see an actual reduction in income as a result of the Best Start change, as only children that are born on or after 1 April 2026\u2014next April\u2014are going to be subject to that. So that is a really important aspect in terms of family impact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ETreasury estimate that 61,000 families will receive less than they would under current settings, by an average of $43 a fortnight in 2026-27, and of these families, 89 percent will have taxable income of over $100,000. This includes 53,000 families not eligible for Best Start following implementation, and 9,000 families earning between $79,000 and $97,276, who would receive an abated amount of Best Start in the first year of the child\u2019s life. Of those 9,000 families who will receive an abated Best Start in the first year, they have incomes of between $79,000 and $97,000, as I\u2019ve noted. The $79,000 is the Best Start abatement threshold and the $97,000 is the point at which entitlements are cut off\u2014just to clarify those two points.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ELastly, it\u2019s important to note that of the 53,000 families who became ineligible for Best Start, those families are already earning over the Best Start cut-off point, which is $97,000. These are targeted interventions. No families will see an actual reduction as a result of the Best Start change, as they only apply to children born on or after 1 April 2026.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u002206d7b481ef35415d99475ba8c585a8a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206d7b481ef35415d99475ba8c585a8a5\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to engage with this issue of families earning\u2014I think the Minister said\u2014over $97,000. The trouble is that I think that\u2019s two workers within the family on minimum wage, so these are some pretty low-income families who are working quite hard, or it may be someone who\u2019s on a little bit more than that, maybe. So they are actually quite low-income families, and, in effect, what we\u2019re saying is that these families are rich enough not to need any assistance from the State.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, in terms of, I think it was, 53,000 families on Best Start, here\u2019s the curious thing: if a family is working minimum wage jobs or if they\u2019re working just slightly above minimum wage\u2014maybe they\u2019re a library assistant, so they\u2019re not even getting pay equity these days; they might be getting the living wage, but it\u2019s still a comparatively low wage\u2014and then, when a baby arrives in that family, no matter what, there are extra expenses. Is the Minister saying to us that families who are earning two minimum-wage incomes are, in fact, rich families and are rich enough not to need assistance from the State? That seems to be the implication of what he was saying in that particular call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u00221e6b381befe649cc9716543ba6fe2187\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e6b381befe649cc9716543ba6fe2187\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E No, we\u2019re not saying that. What we are saying is that we are targeting this policy in a way which ensures that those on low and medium incomes are the most benefited by the context of the changes that we\u2019ve made. We make no apology for targeting the benefits of our policy to those who need it most, and we can argue all day long in the context of where that threshold is. But this Government has set the abatement threshold at $97,276, and we believe that that\u2019s an appropriate level to ensure that that policy is targeted to those who need it most. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022c51e4dc8ec6f4966aece5067398ae0ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c51e4dc8ec6f4966aece5067398ae0ae\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I have two questions for the Minister around clause 7 of the bill, around the family credit abatement. Now, I hear what the Minister is saying, and I also think that adjusting the threshold from $42,700 to $44,900 is a good step. However, I wondered\u2014looking at the regulatory impact statement (RIS), it seems like that was the only threshold that was considered and there was no other threshold that was considered. What we\u2019re seeing here is not so much in terms of where we are looking at something that is going to benefit lots of lower-income earners, as opposed to us just, basically, catching up with the Consumers Price Index, which is what I\u2019m seeing here\u2014so if I can get that clarification from the Minister. In which case, my question is: why did the Minister not consider a higher threshold, where, again, more families would be able to benefit? That\u2019s the first question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe second one is around the second part, which is around the abatement rates. Currently, when we\u2019re looking at Working for Families payments, we\u2019re looking at an abatement of 27c in the dollar\u2014so, for every dollar earned over that, the payment reduces by 27c, and that\u2019s being increased to 27.5c. In fact, that is, I feel, going to be a harsher punishment in some ways, because it\u2019s 0.5c more per dollar, whereas, again, looking through the RIS and looking through the thing, didn\u2019t we see a reduction in terms of that particular abatement rate\u2014making it lower, for example\u2014to make it more accessible for families who are above the abatement threshold? So that\u2019s my second question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EMy two questions are around the fact that we didn\u2019t consider higher thresholds in the first place\u2014because it doesn\u2019t seem to be an option that was mentioned in the RIS\u2014and also in terms of the 27c going up to 27.5c. Why didn\u2019t we consider making it a little bit lower? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EWith that, my final question is whether the Minister would consider my amendment on this, which would then adjust the abatement rate to $61,000, which is a higher increase, and would also reduce gradually the rate to 18c in the dollar, as opposed to the proposed 27.5c in the dollar, because this would mean that, I think, hundreds of thousands of families would then have more money through a simple and improved Working for Families system, as opposed to what we\u2019re seeing here. Would the Minister, then, finally consider my amendment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022312ace21565a41aba5c6e218c741801f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Could you please quote the number of your amendment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222499d370f06484d9ba97c1db69522e8\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think I have a number, because it\u2019s a tabled amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f4868c26b6d4c308e51592357654bd7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, OK. You\u2019ve outlined it anyway, so we\u2019ll find it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d94818a0a53417daf2371a590cf5bd4\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve outlined it. It should be on the Table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f85e26c343714d0e82a9f938272fb8f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f85e26c343714d0e82a9f938272fb8f5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. We\u2019ll find it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022e25d4442f9df4667bc99625159c27772\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e25d4442f9df4667bc99625159c27772\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Yeah, no, I\u2019m familiar with the member\u2019s amendment. Sadly, I won\u2019t be accepting that change, and I\u2019ll give some context on the reasons why. The point around the threshold is also in the context of ensuring that the changes that the Government has made are fiscally neutral\u2014so, therefore, ensuring that the changes are targeted\u2014and then the threshold is set.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThere was a question in regard to the minimum wage. Well, the threshold is set above what a two-couple family who are both on minimum wage would be earning, which is in region of around $96,000. The threshold is set above that level and, again, is representing that the Government wants to target these initiatives to low and middle income earners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022c697497559a741349868fe3ae173b7f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c697497559a741349868fe3ae173b7f7\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E There are a couple of quite technical points I would like to consider. One is that there is, as we know, quite an interaction between the various Working for Families tax credits, and one of them is the minimum family tax credit\u2014the MFTC. Anyway, what it does is that it ensures that the minimum income earned by someone in work is just a little bit higher than the income earned by someone on benefit. The objective is to ensure that it is actually worth going into work, and it\u2019s a particular tax credit that\u2019s been there since, I think, very early on in the start of the Working for Families scheme. It\u2019s actually a really complicated interaction between the other Working for Families tax credits and the benefit system, and so on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019d like to know from the Minister\u2014now, I know that the minimum family income tax credit gets adjusted every year. But I\u2019d just like to know to what extent his officials engaged with how that particular tax credit is going to need to be adjusted and when we\u2019re going to see that adjustment coming through in legislation. Because it\u2019s so complicated, I can\u2019t work it backwards myself, so I\u2019m not saying it ought to have been in this legislation, but, presumably, some work has been done to make sure that that minimum family tax credit still works in the way that it was intended to work through. So that\u2019s a little complicated, but I\u2019m hoping that the Minister can just shed a wee bit of light on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002253f8d8daafdf455bb4688778c99a18c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253f8d8daafdf455bb4688778c99a18c5\u0022\u003ERt Hon ADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Ata m\u0101rie t\u0101tou. I just wanted to take a brief call in support of my tabled amendment. My tabled amendment is really about the honour and integrity of the New Zealand National Party, because in their pre-election fiscal plan, they said that they would have the abatement rate at $50,000. I\u2019m not saying that they\u2019ve deliberately misled the country before the last election. I think it\u2019s probably just a minor oversight of $5,100, but it\u2019s an oversight, none the less, and I think it needs to be corrected. I\u2019d encourage the Minister to accept the tabled amendment and uphold the mana of the New Zealand National Party. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022010182a0256d4ac2baccc5f3aa38d7a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022010182a0256d4ac2baccc5f3aa38d7a5\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I have a couple of questions in relation to clause 7, which amends section MD 13, and that is specifically relating to raising the threshold at which Working for Families tax credits start to abate, and also the rate at which they abate. I acknowledge that some of this has been done in order to recognise inflation, but it\u2019s important. I just would like to know from the Minister of Revenue: back in 2023, National made some promises in terms of that, and I would just like to ask him to go back and check his notes to see what specifically was promised back in 2023 and whether that actually meets what\u2019s being delivered in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EMy main point that I\u2019d like to speak to in relation to those abatement thresholds is that we know that they\u2019re clearly defined in the tax Act, and we know that the threshold is not indexed to wage growth or inflation and they can, in fact, be amended by primary or even secondary legislation. The abatement rate can be amended, and so as part of looking back at the 2004 and 2007 Working for Families introduction, a single abatement threshold was set at $35,000, with an abatement rate of 20 percent. Since 2006, the abatement threshold has been increased on three occasions, with the latest being in 2018 with that increase to the current threshold of $42,700.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ENow, with the legislation that has already been processed that relates to pay equity, there will be a number of people who are earning and currently claiming the Working for Families benefit who will continue to need that support because their wages won\u2019t increase. They may have been entitled under the previous pay equity legislation to be in line for a pay equity claim that would have raised their wages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo my question to the Minister is this. If it goes to this level of calculating the abatement thresholds, the Government must have done some calculations to understand what the impact was not only of not providing pay equity settlements for the 33 claims that were under way but also for all of the other areas that had the potential to proceed through the pay equity process. We do note that changing that threshold for those female-dominated professions and lifting that up to 70 percent has excluded some professions like high school teachers, and I think also that some corrections workers fall into that area, as well\u2014there are a couple that are at 68 percent or 67 percent\u2014and so now those areas are excluded from being able to make a pay equity claim.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo my question is this: if we\u2019re looking at this part of Working for Families, surely the public of New Zealand, who are not able to submit at select committee because of the urgency motion\u2014surely, we should have an ability to understand how much more taxpayers in Working for Families will be paying as a result of those 33 different claims now having to need Working for Families tax credits, and also needing to qualify for it, because if their wages had increased over time through pay equity claims, then many of those women would be at a higher level, where they would have been financially independent and been able to keep paying for butter at $10\u2014or it\u2019s a bit cheaper at Costco\u2014if those claims had proceeded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe Minister must have some notes there about understanding what the cost to New Zealanders is under additional Working for Families payments, given the fact that those pay equity claims have, effectively, been shelved by this Budget. I\u2019d also like to point out that a lot of measures in this Budget have been paid for by working women. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd835b69485e4d90b6035a876551b4ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd835b69485e4d90b6035a876551b4ae\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a short question for the Minister that I will preface with a little bit of commentary just for context around Best Start. Just for the Minister\u2019s reference, I\u2019m working off the commentary on the bill from Inland Revenue, at the final page\u2014page 26\u2014and then I\u2019m also working off the regulatory impact statement, at page 15, bullet points 40 and 41. So that\u2019s just for the Minister\u2019s reference, and I\u2019m noting that these are the kinds of questions I would have asked in a select committee process to be included in the departmental report, just in terms of the impact of the policy. The bill commentary, obviously, discusses the impact on the different tax years but also what applicants will need to undertake to be compliant and to access the Best Start payment\u2014particularly with the changes in years\u2014and it gives some examples of a family in terms of when their child was born. But the change to the section in the Act is, essentially, saying that prior to a child turning one, it\u2019s now being means-tested, so there will need to be an application.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EMy concern, and my question for the Minister, is\u2014I\u2019m just noting if the Minister is noting this, hopefully\u2014the calculations\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d18fc60747064f938090546cf3ddbc10\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: You carry on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022498c556575ea4697bf94f53e0980a652\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: Great, excellent\u2014two working ears. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e97d2646b43492385c8d770b0339229\u0022\u003EHon Simon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: I can hear out of this ear, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a5967394e6742beb6162d01e7b6ce83\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m very pleased to hear it, Minister. My question is about the calculations on how many families may end up not applying as a result. So what it states in bullet point 41 of the regulatory impact statement on page 15 is that income testing the first year of Best Start will mean that families will have to apply via a separate Inland Revenue form, and, as such, fewer families may apply due to increased compliance costs in the application process, resulting in fewer families being identified as being eligible for other Working for Families tax credits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo what I\u2019m asking is whether there has been a thorough assessment, because it doesn\u2019t then go into the detail of the impact of extra administration and burden being required on families to apply for Best Start and those that then might drop out, and then, as a result, end up not being able to access the benefit that they\u2019re entitled to. I\u2019d like to know if the Minister has looked at those calculations and has had advice on how many families may then drop out of that application process, and, furthermore, what would the impact be on child poverty, because, obviously, the Best Start payment is a policy that is designed to address child poverty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThat first year is designed to be universal so that more families can access it, so I\u2019m concerned, on reading this regulatory impact statement, that fewer families may apply and, therefore, fewer families may get access to their entitlement, particularly in the first year of a child\u2019s life. That means less nappies being purchased and less formula, if they\u2019re not breastfeeding, and the like. So my specific question is: how many families will it be, has he had those actual calculations given to him, and what is the specific impact on child poverty?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u00224d98f53d50cc49628052d759d73df83f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d98f53d50cc49628052d759d73df83f\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and for those questions. To those tuning in at home\u2014and I know there will be a lot of people watching the tax bill this morning because it\u2019s such a good piece of legislation\u2014I say good morning, and I hope you\u2019re having a great day, wherever you are in the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s answer the question\u2014and it\u2019s a technical question\u2014in regards to the minimum family tax credit. Just to the member\u2019s point there, that was adjusted to match increases in main benefits by inflation, and it was adjusted by Government in Budget 2024.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIn regards to the amendment put forward by the Rt Hon Adrian Rurawhe, we will not be considering that amendment in the context of the point that has been noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIn regards to the question by the Hon Ginny Andersen, pay equity is out of the scope of this bill. The scenario given was hypothetical and, therefore, is not something that one would be able to calculate, even if it was in scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ELastly, the question from Rachel Boyack in the context of whether there has been a thorough assessment in regards to this policy, the short answer is yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022c78d182c43e84bf3bc264b8edc067149\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c78d182c43e84bf3bc264b8edc067149\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for the opportunity to take a first call on this bill. An important bill it is, and I look forward to the Minister of Revenue\u2019s engagement on my first question about clause 7, which I hope will be a back and forth with the Minister. Minister, under clause 7(1), what number in 2023 did the National Party promise New Zealanders would be in\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00227ad1000c2a9b446e968fc8bfa4a2ce90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ad1000c2a9b446e968fc8bfa4a2ce90\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I think we\u2019re getting to the point on clause 7 where we\u2019ve had several questions on clause 7. It\u2019s the third time I\u2019ve heard the question around the National Party, and the Minister has actually just answered that one. So do you have some other questions on the actual clauses in the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8801197b9bd4af0a63e1e6dd6da7739\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8801197b9bd4af0a63e1e6dd6da7739\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Just a very quick question about what\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3f01808122145d5af4d3ea57624f54f\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfe11fc0531e4ebdb2342d1bc8c5779c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, was that a point of order? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022650af2cb39a040298b52ff435ab92a7a\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no, I thought\u2014I didn\u2019t see her. I apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee26a28d6d994c328e6c9c1de971216d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, OK\u2014sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226a1dbb69a414ef49df69f9067e2e64a\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY\u003C/span\u003E: What cross-agency work has been done regarding the Best Start payment. This is simply because the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) published a report last week that showed a clear corelation between school attendance and families that were receiving this payment. It is so strong, in fact, that they almost\u2014if you read the wording of the report\u2014say that it\u2019s causal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESo, given that this Government has put money in this Budget for school attendance, what analysis did the Minister do or what conversations did he have with MSD officials to find out what the benefits would be to keep the payment in place, or, if there was going to be this change in threshold, what impact would that have on school attendance? Did he actually have those conversations, because it would seem really illogical to be putting money in another part of the Budget to boost that when the Government\u2019s own advice shows a clear corelation between the Best Start payment and school attendance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7128e530ce8465a9aa2fd69e9148611\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7128e530ce8465a9aa2fd69e9148611\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E I am now getting into a little bit of repetition. But, as the member will be aware if she has read the regulatory impact statement, that cross-agency work has been undertaken in the context of all elements of this Budget, and the reporting, in the context of the way in which these policies interact, has been undertaken and will continue to be undertaken. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1e6233a36f94472800cb0c9c078d9ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1e6233a36f94472800cb0c9c078d9ff\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Dr Deborah Russell\u2014new questions, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00224104cd9da63b45d798669b166b02ebbd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224104cd9da63b45d798669b166b02ebbd\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Yep, thank you, Madam Chair. I do have one last question on Best Start, and then the next set of clauses in Part 1 are to do with KiwiSaver. So I\u2019m pretty ready to move on to the KiwiSaver discussion in Part 1 in just a moment because there are clauses there that do that. Just looking at Best Start, and it is a question\u2014I\u2019ve already asked about the interaction of the minimum family tax credit, and I think the Minister answered that it was adjusted in Budget 2024. As far as I can tell, that\u2019s usually an annual adjustment, at times\u2014so I guess it\u2019ll turn up in a future tax bill, or in something like that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EHowever, having said that, we are taking Best Start away from a number of families and there is another interaction there, and that is with last year\u2019s FamilyBoost, which came through in Budget 2024. I just want to understand if some work was done on the interaction between the FamilyBoost policy and this new policy taking Best Start away from however many families it takes it away from. I think it is 53,000 families\u2014no, that can\u2019t be right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f760a63a46f049268ec4c89a4488727b\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: 61,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2812e325aad4712bb0d745423df3a2b\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s 61,000 in total, with these abatement changes. That\u2019s a lot of families who are now losing out, so I\u2019d like to know if there was some interaction there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EHowever, having said all that, I do think it is time for us to move on to look at some of the KiwiSaver changes. Now, the KiwiSaver changes in Part 1 are in clauses\u2014let me see\u2014clause 9 through to clause 16, which are all to do with KiwiSaver. It\u2019s quite a significant change to KiwiSaver, so I think we do need to talk about the policy here, as well. There are three significant changes that we need to talk about. The first is the extension of the KiwiSaver tax to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b19abe5a1d0a45f59dc7e977b79066aa\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just ask a question here, on the KiwiSaver part? There\u2019s a large chunk of KiwiSaver in Part 2, so if there\u2019s something specific to Part 1, could you point to exactly where it is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c48a898067a4116960f49dd07617427\u0022\u003EHon Dr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, absolutely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203be1f70e2f1469e87ef6105bf12afc0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014because we\u2019ll have the large part of the discussion on KiwiSaver in Part 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d9dfeb45a2e448db8956e0e14e144ed\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I disagree, Madam Chair. If we look at clause 13, that is exactly where the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229010333ed7d8400293501cc24182851f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what I\u2019m asking it for\u2014I just want the committee to be clear as to what\u2019s in Part 1 and what\u2019s in Part 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fc97a177b1a44938f2098d11256b25b\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: In Part 1, we have the place where, in clause 13, it\u2019s where the actual change to the tax credit sits. That\u2019s the clause that does the actual work, and we actually need to look at that tax credit there. Clause 9 introduces the threshold\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022705403d967b040da8b1b8435d989a8f6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s fine\u2014I\u2019m not disagreeing with the member. I know the member understands this very well, but I\u2019m just making it clear for the committee\u2014OK? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a9a2bfeb2de43bf8a0a4f75698e27d4\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. To be honest, it\u2019s a bit hard getting up to speed with it just overnight, but we\u2019re getting there\u2014we\u2019re getting there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224029052553354daeaec268e3f5951ec6\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: You are means-testing retirements savings\u2014justify that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3be52e590f2434aa23395b4abeb6b48\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, right\u2014OK. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cbeaca4bdfc4536a4f5ed71cd245715\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I think we\u2019ll leave the member who is speaking to ask the questions, thank you. The Hon Dr Deborah Russell is speaking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b55924e373ca48e2af8d41da823b0406\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair. So I do want to talk about the general policy, and there are three policy changes. One is extending KiwiSaver to 16- and 17-year-olds, so the tax credit part of it, and that\u2019s sitting in clause 10. We need to talk about introducing an upper threshold for KiwiSaver, and that\u2019s introducing the $180,000 threshold, which is sitting in clause 10(3), and the other one is the actual change in the tax credit, which is sitting in there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI would like to talk to the Minister and ask, first, why\u2014why? KiwiSaver has been an enormously successful policy. It has been enormously successful in getting people to save for their retirement. It has been enormously successful in helping people to build their retirement changes. It was introduced by Sir Michael Cullen, and it was a far-sighted policy. People are now engaging with saving, and so on. So why, then, turn around and knock some of the incentives for KiwiSaver? Why turn around and say that it\u2019s important to have a threshold in there now? Why turn around and reduce the member tax credit now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI tautoko the change to allow 16- and 17-year-olds to participate in KiwiSaver. That\u2019s an excellent change and it gets people going early, so of course we agree with that change and we really support it. But we, nevertheless, look at the disincentives now, and I want to know from the Minister why, when we are all deeply concerned about retirement savings, would they introduce this sort of policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022520bd032d85045c4a6cf47e32cd6878e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022520bd032d85045c4a6cf47e32cd6878e\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I\u2019m not going to engage in a deep degree of policy, because Part 2 of this bill deals with KiwiSaver. But the aim of the changes made is primarily to ensure that KiwiSaver is more sustainable. The impact of the Government contribution on the overall retirement savings is likely to be small, and the change actually increases value for money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb055750ad8340b5a95a2d5dcaa3bfc8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb055750ad8340b5a95a2d5dcaa3bfc8\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I move\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022138deffdfa8e4f3882ca351459d3089b\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Chairperson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022924b72fdb3794283888de63193641c60\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve got a point of order coming from my left. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1fd9cc1846b4bccb25c9c2a361cfd6e\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora, Madam Chair. I\u2019m just seeing the excitement of the Government MPs, and looking at Speaker\u2019s ruling 68/4, because we\u2019re in urgency, I notice there are at least two members from the two other Opposition parties that have not spoken on this, so I just wanted to clarify. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247be64c3aaeb4be49006085e1f5c1503\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, can I make the point that I\u2019ve had a discussion with the Clerk about this, and I know that the Hon Dr Deborah Russell has asked some specific questions to Part 1, but most of the clauses on KiwiSaver are in Part 2. We\u2019re not going to shut down the conversation on KiwiSaver, and if there\u2019s something in Part 2 that the Hon Dr Deborah Russell refers to in Part 1 as a result of asking her questions in Part 2, then we can build on that. Tom\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe3e8145d4144f9f8d8a837ea2282693\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, I guess the clarification was from Speaker\u2019s ruling 68/4 that there are still members who are seeking the call that haven\u2019t actually had the opportunity to speak, so we don\u2019t yet know what they\u2019re going to talk about. That was my\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276d37c3264fc422b85dfa77836082c57\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do get that, but I am going to accept a call from Tom Rutherford because I do believe we\u2019re going to get ourselves into a bind here. I fully believe we can answer the questions, and members are welcome to bring them up in Part 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227aa8fd1d3a634be8968666fb5be1c5cc\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That debate on this question now close. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c3c3ca7f018c43859dda9e5783c806b6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3f4910cb80a41ce86016917e9c9ff46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3f4910cb80a41ce86016917e9c9ff46\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4, to delete new section CC 15, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002267a11a72b0c94a20a7b6239812e3d521\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a399740a03204875b237b8394870baad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a399740a03204875b237b8394870baad\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, new section CC 15, to change 25 percent to 40 percent, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002276fbbdb2506f4258bbd244def3fd5b3b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022503cf1e37cc04bdb9246fc85128d9aeb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022503cf1e37cc04bdb9246fc85128d9aeb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, new section CC 15(4), to insert \u201Csingle\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022371fe7eed16246539f5316692edec238\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022aefded701ef54c249d24f5c003d671a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aefded701ef54c249d24f5c003d671a6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 5, to delete new section DI 1, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022361aa70329324d1d9603b6929c833cdb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022417da98fc7f548b19018f2adb31f62e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022417da98fc7f548b19018f2adb31f62e6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 5, to delete new section DI 2, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229ad0a180c99648f9b210ed8df110fabb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002249f24a7f8a274acba084988615e8a762\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249f24a7f8a274acba084988615e8a762\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 5, to delete new section DI 3, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022519dcbbd5ec4447890d017a9948984f8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6192f2197264f49bcab676856d91044\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6192f2197264f49bcab676856d91044\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 5, to delete new section DI 4, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b122ba958271429e9719b5c987027dbb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c45166672cfe4bf59c9c8495691e3ff7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c45166672cfe4bf59c9c8495691e3ff7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 5, to delete new section DI 4(a)(i), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022819298dfc86e49fcb5e3a53e4db2a7c4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00224950b05b9819406e8a207a2e2a25193a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224950b05b9819406e8a207a2e2a25193a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Celia Wade-Brown\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 5, new section DI 4(a)(iii), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fcfdbbdb12274b6791354e0b965792ae\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00224d379db555b94deb8f0ac5bb84a407aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d379db555b94deb8f0ac5bb84a407aa\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 5, to delete new section DI 4(a)(vi), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222aeab376b66e43b98da7177e689fe95a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b51a8270781a4dd3a8ef6909a5b121a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b51a8270781a4dd3a8ef6909a5b121a2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 5, to delete new section DI 4(a)(vi) and (viii), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224a0791ccf86847349581e717630f7437\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022734a0d9a82f84e8ab590fd90c2c00667\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 5, to delete new section DI 4(a)(vii), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9303edce2e64eca9418adcfb2a6e68e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9303edce2e64eca9418adcfb2a6e68e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ee854106727a40ebb133e865ade64922\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003Ethe Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 5, new section DI 4(b), to insert subparagraph (v), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f606908c34f04412997eb0d0b1c9744c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f606908c34f04412997eb0d0b1c9744c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002223c1fa9eb4ef4ec1a5bf09d7de91cc54\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 5, to delete new section DI 5, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a545ee2e418c4c1aa8fe0520e202e11f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a545ee2e418c4c1aa8fe0520e202e11f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e389c7d6e0054485b464ae95e691ff44\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 5, new section DI 5(1), to replace \u201C0.2\u201D with \u201C0.1\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022836d9cde661244f39ebea717e2263873\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022836d9cde661244f39ebea717e2263873\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bbad09504db04c98ae2ba7535296de10\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003Ethe Hon Dr Megan Woods\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 5, new section DI 5(1), to change the formula to \u201C0.27 x (expenditure - contribution)\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022201ffa6c96604c03910da3a29f47a26c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022201ffa6c96604c03910da3a29f47a26c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b978e542a4a54f4e897c3512ce587dc3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 5, new section DI 5(1), to change the formula to \u201C0.25 x (expenditure - contribution)\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1351656a152429d8fb4cb58a96f62ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1351656a152429d8fb4cb58a96f62ec\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f8904435050c4afe810d6fa458b9daa6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 5, new section DI 5(1), to change the formula to \u201C0.22 x (expenditure - contribution)\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9cf2cedd0e64ab9b2762b17424dae5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9cf2cedd0e64ab9b2762b17424dae5c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bf65ce4f8a834bb5ba9309b4a8ab7b52\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 5, new section DI 5(1), to change the formula to \u201C0.3 x (expenditure - contribution)\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8fdf5bbd0b5431eac2c55e19f1e2068\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8fdf5bbd0b5431eac2c55e19f1e2068\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002290a6e56e950c4aa88ea1822436d19a52\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 5, to delete new section DI 6, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002261e33bfd3976466999eea29818faa388\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261e33bfd3976466999eea29818faa388\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002236ecdc55b950405f9f66fee4e6e22b6c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 5, new section DI 6(b), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00220a34544fe3f741978c46a3553bd9ea60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a34544fe3f741978c46a3553bd9ea60\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022eeea0d40990a45919cbcffae58ed7343\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eeea0d40990a45919cbcffae58ed7343\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 7(1) and (2) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022973324d406c64de48d9ce1b2acc163ed\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b7270dc99fa4d37b117852475bd2c55\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 7(1), to replace \u201C$44,900\u201D with \u201C$50,000\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222ed369dde41749fd9e23d5b6c4172039\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223648f4e675024298834625823555cf9b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Rt Hon Adrian Rurawhe\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7(1) and (2) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229b78424af269419f918de7ee00e40d8f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022503f2626be8b4fd89b00455068cb7c59\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 7(2), to replace $44,900 with $50,000, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002227a5001539884dfabddbb74c0ee349d2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d492411f53da407598b2e7f3b4762198\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 8, section MG 3(2)(b)(i), to replace \u201C1 April 2026\u201D with \u201C22 May 2025\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221f6f4a2950f348929060307cabbd2d97\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226500e87d4024f5795f01255213461d6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Barbara Edmonds\u2019 tabled amendment to delete clause 8 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228f53f6d63f3a4008be60e137ad5b073f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaa9d0fc747045e4a8bf722611e75b09\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 11, to delete new section MK 2B, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225a544ddf192741b0847cda8f976863c8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254ef3785a0b54778840b0184346e42fa\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 13, to delete subclauses (2)(a) and (3), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220ae951e7158b4b2193b021007c11252b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022496a338850964510ad15a4f4977ad18b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Deborah Russell\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 13, to delete subclauses (2) and (4), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d2bf568a21a44c5e93dba7a7d7f7a619\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7dd14e62eac411588cf1e6cf0396be4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Barbara Edmonds\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 13(2)(a) and (b) is out of order as being inconsistent with the principle and objects of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe question is that Glen Bennett\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 13(2)(b), to replace \u201C$260.72\u201D with \u201C$450\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022eb9256efa74f4408b23a56cbb4c06271\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffae89b08c7d455ca24146507ddb74e5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Glen Bennett\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 13(2)(b), to replace \u201C$260.72\u201D with \u201C$400\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a7ec0917aeda468984ec5f6d91c3453f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022679a58b3f3a843cfa973d5d8b8f8c228\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022679a58b3f3a843cfa973d5d8b8f8c228\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Deborah Russell\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 13(2)(b), to replace \u201C$260.72\u201D with \u201C$500.00\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227b62fa7063c042b4b45d0fb0def12aba\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4088de50fa14d9889598d0c73f664d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4088de50fa14d9889598d0c73f664d2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 16(1) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002232ccb4271b0c42f3936c2eaff83b405f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fd00f7aaaaff4186928b5430558f365a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002230cb8ed19e4a4c05b1ad5c23b7f8ae52\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendments to other enactments \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022a042b91a61544106991b73bd4e1c16aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a042b91a61544106991b73bd4e1c16aa\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to Part 2. This is the debate on clauses 17 to 30, the \u201CAmendments to other enactments\u201D. Part 2 contains changes to the KiwiSaver regime as well as changes to the Tax Administration Act 1994. The question is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3ca41583c8f4ccc91ddaeb1908d0c61\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3ca41583c8f4ccc91ddaeb1908d0c61\u0022\u003ERt Hon ADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thank you, Madam Chair. I refer to two matters. Before the closure motion and the vote on Part 1, the Chair seemed to indicate that, despite the end of Part\u00A01, those elements of KiwiSaver from Part\u00A01 could be debated in Part\u00A02. I just want to confirm that that\u2019s the case, mainly because it is a bit odd given that we\u2019ve voted on amendments to KiwiSaver clauses\u2014but that\u2019s what she indicated. There were very few calls on KiwiSaver and I note that colleagues from the Green Party and Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori were seeking calls but were not given the opportunities to speak on that part of Part\u00A01\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a304a1110acc4df29152687c7c435918\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243ddc59a678d4f05a4fd6da6f4df2c29\u0022\u003ERt Hon ADRIAN RURAWHE\u003C/span\u003E: So my question, just for clarity of the committee, is: have I heard that correctly?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da0aab2bfc9448e58d5336f50e9b7fa5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: You have heard that correctly, sir. I was watching the debate and I heard the previous Chair make reference to being able to go back, where relevant, into clause\u00A01 as it relates to KiwiSaver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7d23925c67f446ba542106c123f4c5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7d23925c67f446ba542106c123f4c5d\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the point of order. I just want to really, really clarify this because, with respect, the operative changes to the KiwiSaver regime actually occurred in Part 1. The Chair seemed to think that we could, in actual fact, discuss those operative changes in Part 2, but that\u2019s going to be very hard because we can\u2019t relate them to a clause in Part 2\u2014they actually sit in Part 1. The amendments in Part 2 are very, very technical and just to do with a very small part of the changes. So may I suggest, provided we bring up new points, that we have a rather more thematic debate in Part 2 around KiwiSaver? We could confine it to KiwiSaver and always make sure we are bringing up a new idea rather than repeating ideas, rather than trying to relate specifically to clauses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f3ead8bc4e04c8c9a987e3cf03325bc\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4807f4fd2bb482395380b2de52c0c46\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just take some advice from the Clerk. Speaking to the point of order, Tim van de Molen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022 data-id=\u0022496f8e11eafa487bafe22aa0672fdceb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022496f8e11eafa487bafe22aa0672fdceb\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. There is, obviously, under Part 2, clause 17, which relates to KiwiSaver. My understanding of the comments from the Chair during the previous part were that KiwiSaver can, of course, be debated in Part 2 because there is a clause for that. But it would not be appropriate to give the committee the ability to rehash everything in the clause 1 aspects of KiwiSaver because, of course, that\u2019s been dealt with and voted on and completed under that part. So it should indeed be constrained to this part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002296b48640a0a2469f89c7d2825e4bd152\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296b48640a0a2469f89c7d2825e4bd152\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re all in agreement. I think everyone understands as it\u2014and I did listen to the previous Chair and she has provided me with confirmation of her ruling. So I think you\u2019re correct, Dr Russell, that we can refer back to clause 1 as it relates to KiwiSaver. But I think we\u2019ll just see how the substantive questions come through. To your point about the repetition, we will be very alert to that. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022309e0f26c4114b2a903e0968d54fd0b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022309e0f26c4114b2a903e0968d54fd0b9\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the amendments to KiwiSaver in general, there is some debate that we need to have around the substantive changes. Now, in actual fact, there are three substantive changes, and I think we\u2019ll need to speak to the policy intent behind them. The three substantive changes are: one, the change to the member tax credit, which is being halved, so it\u2019s going down to two hundred and forty-something-or-other dollars. The second substantial change, and it\u2019s a change that this party, at least, supports, is the change to enable 16- and 17-year-olds to participate in KiwiSaver, to receive employer contributions, and to receive the member tax credit. Now, given that we agree to that, in this party, my party doesn\u2019t feel the need, particularly, to discuss that particular change for 16- and 17-year-olds, other than to endorse it. But the third substantive change is the change that puts in a top threshold for KiwiSaver, and it says that people earning over $180,000 may not receive the member tax credit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI have two points I want to make about that one. The two points are these\u2014the first question is: why $180,000? What was the particular policy rationale around $180,000? Now, it\u2019s clear that it links to the top tax threshold. The top tax threshold is also $180,000. It\u2019s an interesting point, because people earning over $180,000\u2014and that is a substantial income in New Zealand\u2014first of all, their tax rate increases after $180,000, and now they don\u2019t get the KiwiSaver tax credit, either. I\u2019m hoping it wasn\u2019t just a convenience thing at $180,000, that there was actually some substantial fiscal analysis that said that, in actual fact, we think people earning over or roundabout that amount of money are likely to be able to save without needing that extra credit from the Government, that they would be in a position to do that anyway. So I\u2019d just like to know, from the Minister of Revenue, what advice they got around that substantive change, around $180,000. That\u2019s the first question I have to ask around that threshold change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe other one around the threshold change is a very precise one. It just seems to me, from the way it\u2019s written, that a person who earns $179,999 will get the member tax credit, but a person who earns $180,001 will not get the member tax credit. There\u2019s just a little flex point there, where, in actual fact, you\u2019re going to end up worse off earning a tiny bit more money than if you earned a tiny bit less money. Now, in other places in the income tax system, we try really hard to make sure that people do not end up worse off because of a tax change that pushes them up or over a threshold\u2014an example of that is the minimum family tax credit. I just want to know what happens to people who sit right on that cusp, who, if they just get a tiny wage increase or a tiny salary increase, end up earning just a little too much to get the member tax credit. What was the thinking around that? Was there, again, any analysis done around that? I get we have to draw a line somewhere. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo the two questions: why was the line drawn there, and what happens to people who just fall on either side of that threshold? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u002211db32fc6e344a2e88baaf387de1e145\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211db32fc6e344a2e88baaf387de1e145\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you so much, Madam Chair. My question is similar to what the Hon Dr Deborah Russell has mentioned as well. Again, we\u2019re really appreciative, Madam Chair, of your clarity around this. I think, when we\u2019re looking at the operative elements of this\u2014I know we have voted on this. My question is around, in Part 1, tying into Part 2\u2014because Part 2, in terms of KiwiSaver, sometimes we\u2019re looking at the contribution rate adjustment and also the reduction rate; so it\u2019s mainly the operationalisation of what the KiwiSaver will look like, from the employer and employee perspective.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EBut, I guess, the fundamental question we\u2019re looking at in Part 1\u2014although I think there is this narrative that we\u2019re looking at making sure that more people are putting into KiwiSaver, etc., fundamentally we\u2019re seeing that we are asking, if I am correct, New Zealanders to pay more out of their wages, which would affect people on the minimum wage as it is, in order that the Government isn\u2019t going to be able to contribute as much, which is what we\u2019re seeing in clause 13 of Part 1. Hence, we\u2019re looking at increasing the contribution rate adjustment from a baseline 3 percent to a baseline 4\u00A0percent. I wanted to check with the Minister of Revenue: if the Government is really looking at wanting to ensure that New Zealanders can save up enough for their KiwiSaver, why has the Government considered reducing the Government contribution from $521.43 to $260.72, by half, and also, as a result of that, adjusting the threshold from a half to a quarter. That\u2019s kind of my first question regarding some of the broader policy questions on the Government contribution element.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI also wanted to check, in terms of\u2014let\u2019s say, with Part 2, when we\u2019re looking at clause 18\u2014when we\u2019re looking at the idea of this transition, in terms of the reduction rate going from 3 percent to 3.5\u00A0percent to 4 percent. Why was the increase going up to 4 percent? Why was 1 April 2026, as a figure, picked? Again, we\u2019re looking at this sort of arbitrary\u2014unless it\u2019s a specific policy requirement or rationale that the Minister could highlight, it seems like an arbitrary date that has been put across, in terms of some of this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ESo those are my two questions for the time being. Again, we\u2019re kind of dancing back and forth between Parts 1 and 2 a little bit, but, in the broader scope of things, when we\u2019re looking at the Government contribution changes, why has the Government decided to contribute less towards people\u2019s KiwiSaver? Then, also, in terms of the rate reduction, as a starting point, why were those particular dates chosen to transition from 3 percent to 3.5\u00A0percent to 4 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u00221948199ee4af4c9f82b6a621fa024ae7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221948199ee4af4c9f82b6a621fa024ae7\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. In answer to the questions regarding income thresholds relating to clauses 20 and 22, the income thresholds were considered. The Government decided that $180,000 was the appropriate level in which earners do not need additional Government support. The benefit and value for money in providing Government contributions to low and medium income earners under $180,000 was seen as the most targeted mechanism in order to achieve that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIn addition to that, research suggests that low to medium income earners need more support than higher-income earners as they have other forms of savings. So that is the policy rationale in regard to clauses 20 and 22 in regards to the income threshold.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe question raised in regard to people that sit above and below $180,000\u2014it is no different to any other brightline number used in regard to taxation; there is a threshold and those above will be subject to it and those below will not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIn regard to clause 20, in regard to the question on the threshold increasing from 3 to 3.5 percent and the timing of that, the Government considered to ensure that there was appropriate time for both employers and employees to be prepared to increase those contributions and, hence, why the date\u2014just under a year out from today\u2014was considered appropriate. That was then balanced with the further increase over the period of the next three years\u2014providing certainty to business is a key objective of this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u00223375fae65c46408fb9491579562d05ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223375fae65c46408fb9491579562d05ac\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. Just a quick question on new Subpart 3B, \u201CRate reduction\u201D, inserted by clause 23, which talks about \u201C[may] be required be no less than 92 days and no more than 1 year.\u201D I understand the philosophy around 92 days is probably around not having frivolous applications. Interesting number, 92, so keen to understand the rationale. Also, no more than a year\u2014there seems to be an assumption that the circumstances will have changed or a pressure, if you like, to make it that the amount will change after that one year. I\u2019m wondering what happens in the event that circumstances haven\u2019t changed. Will they have to do a new application? Will they have to submit all the information that is required under new section 101L(2), or would they just be able to seek some kind of an extension? What is the policy reason for that? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022343f7d5522f44c53a6a5c9eb8fe4a8db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022343f7d5522f44c53a6a5c9eb8fe4a8db\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to follow on from my colleague Ingrid Leary\u2019s question. It\u2019s not so much around the policy around that but I\u2019m just thinking of the compliance costs that are associated with these rate reductions. Now, it\u2019s interesting because a rate can be reduced from 4 percent to 3 percent\u2014so a difference of 1 percent\u2014in what a person contributes to KiwiSaver, and the implication is that that will help with the cost of living. It seems like a fairly small amount to be changing around there, but I get that some people may feel the need to do that. Particularly we\u2019ve seen just reported in the news today that, in the last year or so, more people have been withdrawing KiwiSaver for hardship reasons than for housing reasons. But given that quite small economic benefit, what was the trade-off with compliance costs there? Part 2 has concerned itself very largely with that rate change, and it\u2019s quite a complicated procedure. There\u2019s quite a significant compliance cost for an individual to go through and get that rate reduction, so I wonder what thought was given to the trade-off there between compliance costs and the benefits to the individual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EBut it\u2019s not just the compliance costs either. It\u2019s for the individual but also for the employer, so there\u2019s a set of compliance costs there, but then there\u2019s some work that must need to be done within Inland Revenue\u2019s own systems to enable those changes to take place as well. So there\u2019s a set of costs to the Government in terms of how it actually sets up the systems in order to accommodate this particular change in the rates. I\u2019d just like to hear from the Minister of Revenue what consideration was given to those three sets of costs\u2014compliance costs for the individual, compliance costs for the employer, compliance costs for Inland Revenue and Government systems\u2014in that space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022 data-id=\u0022cbd2fdddf30642cb848cafbdd02d39f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cbd2fdddf30642cb848cafbdd02d39f7\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate the call. I hope you can hear me from all the way back here. I\u2019ve chosen to sit here because I have the theory that you\u2019re more likely to get called when you\u2019re in the Speaker\u2019s line of sight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EBut on to my questions. I have specific questions around the general, cumulative impact of the changes, some in Part 1, as the previous speakers have already articulated, and some in Part 2. My questions relate specifically to what the impacts of these changes might be on migrant communities. We know that migrants come here later on in their life, so won\u2019t have had the opportunity to contribute to KiwiSaver as much as, for example, if someone was born in New Zealand, they were here all their lives, they would have been contributing to KiwiSaver from when they started working\u2014I started working when I was 13 years old, I was a paper boy\u2014so from 13 years old to, potentially, when they retire, to 65, some end up working longer than that. But we know that some migrants end up coming here later in their lives\u2014for example, someone who comes here when they\u2019re 30 or 35. So they would have had less opportunities to contribute to their KiwiSaver. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EWhat are the impacts of having the contribution rate that the Government has set; will that have the potential to create disparities in terms of communities that are more likely to come from migrant backgrounds\u2014for example, the Asian community? Acknowledging, of course, that just because you\u2019re migrant doesn\u2019t necessarily mean that you\u2019re Asian, and vice versa. Some communities here are actually quite well-established from the Asian communities, and I\u2019m thinking, for example, in Dunedin, some of the families there have been there since the era of Chinese goldmining, since the 1800s. We can\u2019t necessarily equate the two, but we do know that there are likelihoods.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI also have questions about whether there\u2019s been much engagement in terms of whether there was specific feedback from the Retirement Commission on the impact of these changes. I\u2019m looking at a body of work that they did a few years ago, and it\u2019s titled \u201CResearch highlights widespread disparities in the experiences M\u0101ori have in retirement.\u201D This is a series of papers that they issued regarding the gaps in wealth between M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori, and how that might impact the potential for M\u0101ori in retirement. Paper one goes over the structural, historical, and political factors. Paper two is a literature review by Dr Margaret Kempton that acknowledges that, obviously, M\u0101ori are\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b54a3a63559544ac825f6150acfce325\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Can you come to the question, please, Francisco?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f137493bd71542e6981f784c8623fd99\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ\u003C/span\u003E: This is part of the question. Was there engagement in terms of the Retirement Commission, and were the four papers that the Retirement Commission did\u2014in terms of research that highlights widespread disparities and experience M\u0101ori have in retirement\u2014factored into the sort of analysis and the work that the department did in terms of estimating the broad impact of these changes? I\u2019ll leave my contribution there. I might want to take some follow-up calls depending on how the Minister of Revenue answers, but thank you for the opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022b01e6770d1d94842b88141cd4533dff6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b01e6770d1d94842b88141cd4533dff6\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, members. In regards to answers to questions relating to the temporary rate reduction in regards to individuals being able to select, for a period of time, a reduction back to 3 percent\u2014these are clauses 18,19, 23, 24, and 25; all of those clauses relate to the temporary rate reduction point\u2014this is providing choice for employees, depending on their financial circumstances. They have a 92-day period, which is, in effect, three months, to be able to apply for that rate reduction; that would be based on their personal circumstances. They can reapply as many times as they wish in regards to that rate reduction. The process that will be involved is considered appropriate and is not overwhelming in the context of administration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIn regards to the questions around compliance and burden, IRD did consider the costs in the context of compliance. They also will be managing the administration costs of this through baselines. We did take on board feedback from the Retirement Commissioner, who also noted and has made statements in the context of the benefits of increased savings which will result as a result of this policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ELastly, to the question in regards to working parents, if I use a working-parent family with children as an example, under the status quo versus under this policy, a working parent, at the time at which they purchased a first home or used the KiwiSaver for a first-home deposit, would have 9 percent more savings, from $15,800 to $17,281. At retirement age, a working-parent family will have 26 percent more savings, from $397,000 for the household to $500,000. These changes will drive a significant uplift in benefits for New Zealanders in the context of retirement and also in regards to their KiwiSaver balances, which they can use to buy their first home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u00226d7be38432c34b768629c401a046f2dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d7be38432c34b768629c401a046f2dc\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. M\u014Drena, Madam Chair; thank you. I think I heard a comment earlier around tax and this whole debate this morning and how it can\u2014it does leave me a bit cold in reality, but, in fact, unfortunately, in this context, it\u2019ll probably leave too many M\u0101ori families out in the cold. So I want to start my discussion in that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EMinister, if you can\u2014and it\u2019s a little bit, I think, in the previous part, but I\u2019ll land with this section now, regarding Adrian Rurawhe\u2019s discussion earlier. Has the Government considered the cumulative impact of the changes alongside rising living costs, housing pressures, and other benefit changes affecting low-income and M\u0101ori wh\u0101nau?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EI live in the community up in Te Tai Tokerau\u2014that is, Northland\u2014and, like many of my colleagues, rural M\u0101ori communities, and urban communities, actually, are of a particular interest to me\u2014all families are, actually. So this is the context of my questions. What assessment was made of how this policy affects equity outcomes? Will the Minister of Revenue release the full cost-benefit analysis or distributional impact modelling used to inform this policy change? And how does the Minister justify a faster reduction in support for struggling families? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a phrase up in the Far North\u2014we talk about \u201CLiving in poverty in paradise\u201D; sadly, too many are forced and struggling in this thing called a \u201Cpoverty reality\u201D, Minister. I don\u2019t see them in these ideas which are now policy and now will be made law, sadly. What protections of transitional measures are in place to ensure families don\u2019t suddenly lose crucial financial support? How will the Government monitor and evaluate the impact?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m going to come to clause 18\u2014if I may\u2014which amends section 4, by inserting the definition of \u201Crate reduction\u201D. This allows for a formal process where individuals can temporarily lower their contribution rate due to financial need in clause 19, which amends section 22 to insert section (22)(1)(c)(ia) on the evidence of rate reduction needed for new employees. How will these amendments ensure that M\u0101ori participation and retention in KiwiSaver are not adversely affected? Has an impact assessment\u2014an actual impact assessment\u2014been done specifically on and with wh\u0101nau M\u0101ori regarding these amendments? What measures are in place to monitor if these legislative changes disproportionately disadvantage\u2014and they will\u2014M\u0101ori wh\u0101nau? What mechanisms, Minister, if you can answer, does the Government have in place to remove barriers to applying for rate reductions? Minister, it is difficult for M\u0101ori to engage with these processes in plain language, whether the language is\u2014well, more often than not, it\u2019s English, and it\u2019s not M\u0101ori enough, sadly. And how is Government going to mitigate these issues for M\u0101ori communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThese are real and actual issues for wh\u0101nau M\u0101ori in rural communities and urban communities. Many of the processes, the clinical, technical processes that you\u2019re forced down into a lane, Minister, are already alienating and they are difficult to navigate. When processes like this are that difficult, the end result will always be either frustration, anger, or just basically giving up and doing-what-you-need-to-do - type of processes, Minister. So I am really interested and keen. I hope that you can give some genuine thought to these questions, these places that I\u2019m talking about, particularly our M\u0101ori places and people, and that they are understood in some of your responses. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2c6ebdeb8734cd5ac12263d227dbb66\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2c6ebdeb8734cd5ac12263d227dbb66\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Just in regard to the last two questions, as we know, a large proportion of youth in New Zealand are M\u0101ori and Pasifika, and, as a direct result of this Government\u2019s changes in the context of KiwiSaver changes related this clause, allowing 16- and 17-year-olds to be eligible for KiwiSaver, a large proportion of youth who are M\u0101ori and Pasifika will now be more better off in the context of KiwiSaver than they were under the status quo, and that should be celebrated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe IRD provides its services in multiple languages, including in print and by phone, and including, obviously, M\u0101ori and other languages. If any individual in New Zealand is not fluent in English, then they can call the IRD on 0800 700 342. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u002253f7c4564c0d4029baa6a3ecf0a66627\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253f7c4564c0d4029baa6a3ecf0a66627\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. In the spirit of back and forth with the Minister of Revenue, I\u2019d just like to acknowledge that he has put on the record, in Hansard, the ability for people to apply as many times as they would like for what is, essentially, a kind of hardship allowance to be able to go to the 3\u00A0percent. I guess my points would be picking up on the previous speaker: the ability for those who need that 3\u00A0percent\u2014because of cost of living pressures\u2014is likely to be less than for those who are in higher income brackets. So I wonder if the Minister would consider, perhaps, whether a reapplication process could be put in place or whether he would be prepared to put in the Hansard that there would be no jeopardy for those people, that every application would be considered either as a starting point so that the commissioner would not look back and go, \u201CWell, you\u2019ve already applied 10 times, and, therefore, we\u2019re going to get hard on you.\u201D If the circumstances have not changed, then they have not changed, and, perhaps, there could be a process that just enables that access, because, currently, as has been pointed out, there is a difficulty with access.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThe other point I would like to go into is just around the refund if the person cannot apply\u2014in new Subpart 3B, new section 101T. It\u2019s really interesting language here where it says, \u201CThe employer \u2026 may refund the amount\u201D to the person, and then, again, in new subsection (6), it says, \u201CThe Commissioner may refund the amount determined under subsection (2) \u2026 if the money is held by the Commissioner.\u201D To some extent, I understand the new subsection (6) more because it would seem that a discretion like that for a commissioner is probably appropriate. But I would like to understand, still, in that subsection, why the commissioner \u201Cmust not\u201D. For subsection (2), I think very different principles apply, because here the legislation is giving the employer a kind of discretion around refunding moneys to people who cannot comply, and there is a clear set-out formula in the legislation about \u201Ccontributions deducted - rate reduction amount.\u201D I don\u2019t understand why this legislation would create this kind of discretion, which just makes it even more difficult for the employee to be able to get moneys if they cannot comply. It also puts a bit of an unfair pressure on the employer, who now becomes judge and juror of the situation. To my mind, it would be better, really, if the moneys either had to go back to the employee or had to go to the commissioner, who would then apply that discretion. The employer is not an agent of the State, and it is putting an unfair burden, in my view, on the employee but also on the employer to have to make those decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESo, really, the wording, Minister\u2014I haven\u2019t got a formal amendment to this, as far as I\u2019m aware, but would the Minister consider making it that the employer must give that refund, or would the Minister consider striking that out and replacing it with something that requires those moneys to go to the commissioner, who would then apply that appropriate discretion? Although, even then, the way the legislation is meant to be operating, if I understand it, really the commissioner should be giving that money back to the person who cannot comply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdce562fa0094d36ae5d7cedd50bacb1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdce562fa0094d36ae5d7cedd50bacb1\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Look, I\u2019ve just got a question regarding new section 15B, \u201CRate reduction\u201D, inserted by clause 26. It\u2019s good that, obviously, Kiwis will have a choice to opt back or down. That\u2019s quite good for us on this side of the House; we\u2019re all about personal responsibility. I just wonder if the Minister of Revenue is satisfied with the way it\u2019s worded in new section 101L(3), inserted by clause 23, \u201CFor the purposes of subsection (2)(c), the period for which the rate reduction is required must be no less than 92 days [before] and no more than 1 year.\u201D I just want to check that the Minister\u2019s happy with the way that\u2019s landed in legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019re just about at the end of Part 2\u2014just at the very end\u2014I\u2019ve just got a question for clarification from the Minister. This is replacement section 80KB, \u201CSection 80KB amended (Contents of application)\u201D, inserted by clause 29. For reference, it\u2019s on page 16 of the bill. Again, I\u2019m just seeking clarification from the Minister on clause 29(1): \u201CIn section 80KB(1)(c), in the words before the subparagraphs, replace\u00A0\u2018on the last day of the tax year\u2019\u00A0with\u00A0\u2018on the last day of the tax year and that tax year is before the 2026-27 tax year\u2019.\u201D Also, clause 29(3)\u2014just at the bottom of page 16, just for your reference, Madam Chair, and Minister\u2014\u201CIn section 80KB(1)(g), replace\u00A0\u2018on the last day of the tax year\u2019\u00A0with\u00A0\u2018on the last day of the tax year and that tax year is before the 2026-27 tax year\u2019.\u201D Similarly, it goes on in replacement section 80KV, inserted by clause 30, which actually brings us right to the end of the whole bill and part. Just before we go to deliberation, I just really was after some clarification from the Minister, and we\u2019d really appreciate his response on that. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d10a5415108647349f2184ffdc54ecc7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Cunning plan, Mr Hamilton, but we\u2019re not there yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4b491df9fe948a4bdfda6f999afb76e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4b491df9fe948a4bdfda6f999afb76e\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and I am\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228724ef3394f84b25bd5fc25b4e444362\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Good try!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244baed3e7c9541c3abd9b11ab8538d40\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, good try\u2014trying to jump right ahead to the end. I am wanting to ask follow-up questions to the Minister of Revenue\u2019s response to the questions from Mariameno Kapa-Kingi, and, in particular, around the impact that these changes will have on M\u0101ori. The point that the Minister made was the inclusion of 16- and 17-year-olds and the number of M\u0101ori who make up that group. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EBut what I want to ask the Minister is: what does he say to the Retirement Commissioner, Jane Wrightson, who said that low-income earners, M\u0101ori, women, and self-employed people would be the hardest hit by the reduction of the member tax credit? What impact can the Minister tell us that these changes will have, in particular, for M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u00226c974ff6f3ad455a9ad8b10cbd8c0d26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c974ff6f3ad455a9ad8b10cbd8c0d26\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve already provided an answer in regards to that question, so I won\u2019t repeat myself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIn regards to the question on the rate reduction, I want to confirm that the process will be an automatic approval and there is no hardship criteria in regard to taxpayers that are seeking a rate reduction. The protocol in regards to the timeline for a rate reduction is also consistent with existing savings suspension protocol under KiwiSaver, and that therefore ensures that compliance costs are saved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI want to answer the question by the member Ryan Hamilton in regards to section 29. Just to clarify, this provides for different dates of birth for individuals and the drafting of the rates reduction. They all follow standard processes for saving suspension, so I hope that clarifies the questions asked in regards to all of clause 29.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u002223b6324ebcc24dd7912bd95b10a675e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223b6324ebcc24dd7912bd95b10a675e8\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to pick up on something the Minister of Revenue said before, and, again, it comes back to 16- and 17-year-olds being eligible for KiwiSaver. I think, from what we\u2019re hearing and what the Minister has said, it is a good idea. But one of the things that one of the previous speakers picked up on, and this is a different perspective of that\u2014he was talking about KiwiSaver in the context of the Government\u2019s attendance package. However, one of the things we have found, particularly during the pandemic and due to the cost of living crisis post-pandemic\u2014and this, again, follows on from Mariameno Kapa-Kingi\u2019s question around M\u0101ori and Pasifika and also rural families\u2019 perspective\u2014is that we do see 16- and 17-year-olds, or potentially younger, having to leave school, or who are no longer able to attend school, because of the fact that they have to work to support their families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EAlthough 16- and 17-year-olds being eligible for KiwiSaver is a good idea, I wondered if the Minister had any advice around the fact of whether this will have, I guess, an adverse response in the sense that we\u2019re then going to be seeing more and more people who will leave school early, or more and more people who are not even leaving school but are simply not attending school because then they would need to go and work, because now they have this new incentive, which is that their salary will be contributing towards their KiwiSaver. So that\u2019s one of my first questions to the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EBut picking up on what the member opposite was talking about in terms of people being able to opt out of the rate reduction, I wanted to check with the Minister on what the rationale was behind allowing people to only do it for one year and having to reapply for it every single year. Now, yes, I agree that having people being able to opt out is a good idea, but people who are probably doing that are already working two, three, or sometimes four jobs. They\u2019re working 60 to 80 hours a week, and yet now we\u2019re adding on this additional administrative burden for them that they have to now do it every single year, or opt in every single year and reapply and go through all of the process. As we have seen with the saga that is FamilyBoost, people don\u2019t necessarily have the time to do that, and IRD is not the most user-friendly department in terms of application process. So when they do something like this\u2014and you\u2019re asking people to do it once every year\u2014would that then put, unfortunately, undue burden on people having to do that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI wonder if the Minister would consider my amendment, which is that people then do this to opt out, and they are opted out for as long as they want to until they are happy to opt back into the system again\u2014and it would increase their rate reduction to go back up to 4 percent as opposed to 3 percent\u2014as opposed to having to do it on an annual basis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI know there are some other questions that other people have asked in terms of 90 days, but I\u2019ll leave that to the Minister. But those are my two questions on whether there\u2019s been any advice the Minister has received around the adverse effect of 16- and 17-year-olds no longer attending school because they\u2019ve now got this additional incentive of being opted into KiwiSaver, and also whether the Minister will consider my amendments in terms of the rate reduction opt-out to be longer than one year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u002228d8fa899cb74595892a1bd697c94d37\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228d8fa899cb74595892a1bd697c94d37\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you very much, Mr Chair. Well, firstly, I\u2019m disappointed that members of the Opposition, particularly the Greens, are voting against this legislation, voting against 16- and 17-year-old New Zealanders to be eligible for KiwiSaver. I don\u2019t think that that sends a very positive signal, but I do acknowledge Government for taking a step\u2014about 85,000 young people will now benefit from KiwiSaver, something that you are opposing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIn the context of the points around section 102 of the KiwiSaver Act 2006, the ability to take a savings reduction\u2014in the context that this provides members with choice, and the context around the 12-month element ensures that we want to be able to boost members\u2019 ability to save in KiwiSaver and, therefore, the need to have to reapply does provide an opportunity to reconsider one\u2019s position and whether they want to continue to invest or not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9c763bd713f4d6aadaf30894e234ad8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9c763bd713f4d6aadaf30894e234ad8\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman. I have a question for the Minister of Revenue around clause 23, which is also on the rate reduction section, where this is specified. My colleague from the Green Party has asked about whether there was any consideration of not having to reapply every year. But my question for the Minister is about whether any modelling has been done around the need to reapply every year to qualify for a lower rate of, say, 3 percent, and whether or not this is going to disincentivise people being involved in KiwiSaver at all\u2014whether it will mean they stop their contributions and they aren\u2019t participating in the scheme, and whether the Minister received any advice around withdrawal from KiwiSaver because of the administrative burden, and what the distributional impacts of that would be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9285f24af2e4a05a773946f950ff02a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9285f24af2e4a05a773946f950ff02a\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E You can see that the Opposition parties have an issue with the compliance burden and, also, just the restrictive nature of new Subpart 3B, inserted by clause 23. I\u2019m wondering, if we look at new section 101M, \u201CGrant of rate reduction\u201D, where the commissioner must give the rate reduction for the period specified, if it has been applied in that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EIf we look separately at new section 101N, the \u201CCommissioner must give notice of grant of rate reduction\u201D\u2014under (a)(ii)\u2014\u201Cof the date on which the rate reduction will end\u201D. As it is written, and without clarification, it does appear that there could be a discretion for the commissioner to actually give that reduction for a period longer. It is only the previous section that requires it to be for the period which was applied for. I\u2019m wondering if the Minister could clarify whether, in his view, that might be a way that the commissioner, with his or her discretion, would be able to actually overcome these issues of equity that are going to impact M\u0101ori, women, and so on, or would he amend new section 101N to clarify the restrictive nature of that section, if he believes that it must be pegged to new section 101M, the previous section before it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u0022c339efc4bfa040dcb7e8de38a5f40412\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c339efc4bfa040dcb7e8de38a5f40412\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Possibly I missed the answer\u2014or maybe I didn\u2019t put the question, so here it goes again. Can the Minister of Revenue explain, please\u2014no, let me just go back to clause 17 and KiwiSaver and how it seems that the Minister thinks we don\u2019t get that. We get that. I\u2019m interested, therefore, to know the actual numbers of young M\u0101ori 16- and 17-year-olds in KiwiSaver. What are those numbers? I\u2019d be interested to know if the Minister knows those. That would be helpful for me to be able to get a better picture on that. Has an impact assessment been done specifically on M\u0101ori wh\u0101nau regarding these particular amendments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EAll measures have a direct impact on wh\u0101nau M\u0101ori when systems often alienate. So, with that in mind, what measures are in place to monitor these changes disproportionately disadvantaging M\u0101ori? I might have said something similar in a previous question, Minister, but I didn\u2019t hear the answer clearly enough, possibly. Also, what mechanisms does the Government have in place to remove the barriers to applying these rate reductions? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EYou might have heard me mention the other day this thing called \u201CDWB\u201D\u2014driving while brown. It\u2019s very much in the 16- to 20-year-old M\u0101ori young people band. So when you\u2019re driving while brown and you get stopped, when you\u2019re profiled and lots of photos are taken\u2014sorry, I don\u2019t mean to cause the Minister\u2019s face to change quite like that, but that is the context, and unless you understand it, the ideas that come out of the mind that produces this are simply going to fail. So I am doing my best to assist the Minister by asking these really useful questions, and I\u2019m looking forward to reciprocal responses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EIt is difficult to engage with these systems\u2014I\u2019ve said that, and I hope that\u2019s understood. How, Minister, will you mitigate these issues for M\u0101ori communities in a M\u0101ori way? I appreciate the responses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022d54d3c5ea0884055a6f43c09478b8c54\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d54d3c5ea0884055a6f43c09478b8c54\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m just looking at clause 25 of the bill. That clause deals with non-compliance of financial institutions with the Financial Markets Conduct Act and financial markets legislation and the Fair Trading Act. As I understand it, and the Minister can correct me if I\u2019m wrong, this is to allow for the fact that there is this raft of changes to KiwiSaver contribution rates, what have you, and Government contributions, and there will be material out there\u2014disclosure statements, advertisements, fliers, what have you\u2014and it will say things like if you contribute a thousand and something dollars, you will get the Government contribution of $500, and that\u2019s no longer accurate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo I get that, but I guess one of the questions I have\u2014or the real question\u2014is that new section 244(b) says that \u201Cthe non-compliance relates to a product disclosure statement or other disclosure document, \u2026 and does not continue on or after 1 January 2026.\u201D So we\u2019re here in May, and it appears that these documents are, by definition, misleading. These are critical documents to the financial decision-making of New Zealanders. This provision says, in essence, up until 1 January next year, you can give people misleading information about investment decisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow, I can understand a short period of grace, because of the way this is done, but the fact is that they\u2019re $66,000 worse off over their careers as a result of this reduction in the Government contribution, and that\u2019s not being put to them. In fact, the opposite is being put to them: that they\u2019re being presented with a disclosure document or going online and clicking on the disclosure document and going, \u201COh, goody! The Government will give me $500 a year.\u201D, and it hasn\u2019t been changed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow, I guess the question is this: have I got that right, and why is it not that best endeavours must be used, and why is the period so long? If it\u2019s a website\u2014an electronic document\u2014it could be edited within days or weeks, and yet there\u2019s over six months when this information can be in the public domain, and that\u2019s how most disclosure happens nowadays, electronically. The days of having boxes of prospectuses and disclosure statements are well past us, and I accept that there are going to be some fliers and some leaflets, and, in fact, they should be shredded. The short answer is that they should be shredded because they\u2019re no longer accurate; they\u2019re, in fact, misleading. I wouldn\u2019t want to hold the financial institutions liable if in some office, in the back corner, someone forgets to shred them and one accidentally gets out, but what this does is it says, \u201CYou don\u2019t need to do anything for over six months.\u201D So it\u2019s really quite problematic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m hoping that good financial institutions, to comply with their Financial Markets (Conduct of Institutions) Act obligations, will immediately inform their investors and potential clients that these changes are being made and that the long-term contributions of the Government will fall and that there\u2019s a different contribution framework for employer and employee contributions going forward. But the suggestion that there\u2019s no need to amend those disclosures\u2014whether those new provisions come into force immediately or not, the fact is that KiwiSaver is a long-term investment strategy and the rules appertaining to their entire investment\u2014the Government contributions across the life of it, the employer contributions across the life of it, and so on\u2014are needed. So I\u2019d be very interested indeed if the Minister could elucidate that. Thank you, Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022bce4fcb40c5d4f159c9b5b465b1fc208\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bce4fcb40c5d4f159c9b5b465b1fc208\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much to the member the Hon Dr Duncan Webb for the question in regard to clause 25. I can assure the member that the time period provided is consistent with the usual period for KiwiSaver changes. The Financial Markets Authority was consulted in the context of this change and confirmed that it was a suitable period. And it is acknowledged in clause 25 that we are looking to provide a limited protection for non-compliance with financial markets legislation, acknowledging that some of these changes relate to changes in product disclosure statements under the Financial Markets Conduct Act 2013 and that they will have until the date noted. It is sufficient time in order to make those changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIn regards to the questions regarding clause 23, new Subpart 3B, new section 101M and 101N, the Inland Revenue has no discretion on changing those; those statements are consistent with other aspects of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIn regards to the questions from Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, I will not repeat answers that I\u2019ve already given to questions, and I didn\u2019t have any clause numbers to be able to give any specifics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002245273c4872e84e2aaf6b93c4c925d45d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245273c4872e84e2aaf6b93c4c925d45d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 18, section 4(1), to replace \u201C1 April 2026\u201D with \u201C1 April 2028\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c9e7bebc436f41d987e04f6e90adb645\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002272d6b99ada274f4e9c3a91c9ad3a0d53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272d6b99ada274f4e9c3a91c9ad3a0d53\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 19, section 22(1)(c)(ia), to delete \u201Cgive or\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227b4cc0e8351e47adb7eee7448a870fc3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022f90ea8c5c0e141e4b55cfd54bf220104\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f90ea8c5c0e141e4b55cfd54bf220104\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 20 to insert subclause (5) is out of order as being outside the scope of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 23, to delete new section 101L, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002295ea970a93aa44b78187784db596689c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00221518d07e6bf8471aa9dfae49e3ef54e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221518d07e6bf8471aa9dfae49e3ef54e6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 23, to delete new section 101M, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221be47749d05b4b7ebdf8720a4523bfa8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7de6731bdc74bc4b3cbbcb6f1b60775\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7de6731bdc74bc4b3cbbcb6f1b60775\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 23, to delete new section 101N, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225e9dab834e0b4793b8c3e0b36e92f7e0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00226c62de3338f444da82c6c7058549f798\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c62de3338f444da82c6c7058549f798\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 23, to delete new section 101O, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222fa49af1a01e4d3192496c23af013dd0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002278c44bb278fe40b58098dc0ade082172\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278c44bb278fe40b58098dc0ade082172\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 23, new section 101P, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c780b10aa00e4a33878bb6eac07827d6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022f672ba9668704f8da6fcf1055409b971\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f672ba9668704f8da6fcf1055409b971\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 23, to delete new section 101P, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f9d0c56c09df4882b4d3883ecd08141b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00229f7d270c167b41348155a3f02aa126c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f7d270c167b41348155a3f02aa126c4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 23, to delete new section 101Q, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227633ce8e99db49fb8795f51071d400b8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022daaa24c57cbd43cc9f824ca91b9d4861\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022daaa24c57cbd43cc9f824ca91b9d4861\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 23, to delete new section 101R, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ad7b8eaf78d842eab2ab73cc03b66b37\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002214f9b12af3124eeda0ce52defe137345\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214f9b12af3124eeda0ce52defe137345\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 23, to delete new section 101S, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022751d20204d7a45d5a26676711fa560b0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022a71d9eae0182430ca09093d30692721d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a71d9eae0182430ca09093d30692721d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 23, to delete new section 101T, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022715602b5792f40efbfff62f93ae94b68\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00224943a5cf81a341c895922903075959f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224943a5cf81a341c895922903075959f1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 244(a), to replace \u201C1 November 2025\u201D with \u201C1 October 2025\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002263c61f6be1c445439e5d2bc4a2f295ca\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00226b9f18c1f282484aab636aa3b8167d9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b9f18c1f282484aab636aa3b8167d9a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 244(b), to replace \u201C1 January 2026\u201D with \u201C1 December 2025\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002271f99075a45645e781191ff9bc39ee8e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022552fe3b114754bd8822a7b16e36c3553\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022552fe3b114754bd8822a7b16e36c3553\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 26, Schedule 1, to delete new clause 15B, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e72cc1d56e744ea8afe6e60fdd5bc87c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220fc0d933c57645d2b467e8f05e82f8ae\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224bc8b973e41d409bb2436af48940179c\u0022\u003EClause 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022c15e2bdc831141a88a7db7f763f5d342\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c15e2bdc831141a88a7db7f763f5d342\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to the debate on clauses 1 and 2, \u201CTitle\u201D and \u201CCommencement\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00221004b79729d1424e96dc576e6255910d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221004b79729d1424e96dc576e6255910d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman. I\u2019m speaking to an amendment to clause 2, \u201CCommencement\u201D, that will be tabled in a couple of minutes\u2014and here it comes. What this amendment does is it asks that the commencement of the sections that are to do with the Investment Boost be delayed for implementation to 1 April 2026, and the reason for this is because the Government needs time to understand the fiscal risks of what has been put in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhat has become apparent is this is an uncapped expenditure. It\u2019s listed on page 89 of the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update\u2014the BEFU. What that says is, \u201CThe fiscal and economic impacts of Investment Boost are significant and have been based on some assumptions and judgements which have a degree of uncertainty. The modelled impacts use aggregate macroeconomic data as an input together with assumptions on coverage within the tax base, and forecasts of growth in investment. Variations in any of these factors can materially affect the fiscal and economic impacts of the policy.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI think that over the last 24 hours, it\u2019s just become apparent how broad this category is. It has been confirmed by the Minister of Revenue this morning that everything is into it. What was put in the committee last night is that if someone wanted to bring in a billion-dollar oil and gas rig, they would be eligible for a $200 million tax break without the Government taking any equity share in this. In fact, the Minister, who is bringing another subsidy for the oil and gas industry, was talking yesterday with great pride about how this is a return to Muldoon-style co-investment with industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EBut what has also become apparent\u2014and we\u2019ve seen arguably the country\u2019s most senior tax accountant, John Cuthbertson, this morning saying, \u201CI think everybody is somewhat surprised at the breadth of this particular tax break that is in that.\u201D He is described as being bemused at the inclusion of things like company cars and office buildings, which aren\u2019t even eligible for depreciation these days but are included within this, and the very uncapped nature of this and the fact that the Government doesn\u2019t have a handle on what is going to happen if costs blow out on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019re seeing is that businesses are being told that they can start spending from yesterday and, basically, they\u2019ll be able to claim this 20 percent. But the Minister of Finance, the Minister in the chair, or indeed the Government has not been able to explain to anyone what happens if costs blow out on this. Is everybody who files, using this, guaranteed that they are going to get it no matter what the costs blow out to? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhat everybody is suspecting is that the Government is going to have to do some latter-day patch-up on this and actually put some parameters around this, because, as we\u2019re seeing, it is in the specified fiscal risk section of the BEFU. The Government needs to actually go and do the work around understanding what the cost to New Zealand is going to be. What is the pressure that it is going to put\u2014and the risk that it puts\u2014in terms of Crown expenditure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why we\u2019re bringing this amendment saying to let\u2019s defer the implementation of this so that the Government can actually go away and do the hard work that is required to get a handle on what the expenditure is going to be, because there have been many questions put to the Government over the last 24 hours. They haven\u2019t been able to answer them, and what we do need to understand is what happens if this does blow out. What is going to happen: are there just going to be cuts elsewhere to pick up the slack on this, or is the Government going to come in and put parameters around it\u2014which would mean that people that have, rightly, gone out and invested, thinking that they were eligible for this 20 percent break, will no longer be eligible, and they\u2019re going to get a nasty surprise when they go to claim their 20 percent. For that reason, we are asking that the Government give the thought that should have been put into this before a policy was announced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00224b73e9aa9fad41dc94aabbe7ff51626b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b73e9aa9fad41dc94aabbe7ff51626b\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I have a number of questions for the Minister of Revenue regarding clause 2, \u201CCommencement\u201D, as well as clause 1, \u201CTitle\u201D. I\u2019m also just noticing that the clock hasn\u2019t quite adjusted yet, but I\u2019m going to start anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EIn terms of the commencement date, I echo what the previous speaker, the Hon Dr Megan Woods, has mentioned. Particularly, we\u2019re looking at clause 2(2) on the coming into force on 22 May 2025. Understandably, in this House, we\u2019re still on the 22nd, but outside of this House, it\u2019s already on the 23rd. So the idea of the fact that we are making a retrospective application of the legislation never really sits well in the context of how we do things in this House. But I want to check with the Minister: what is so urgent that that date can\u2019t be the day of Royal assent, and it has to be yesterday? How many people have applied, or is the Investment Boost eligible for, that were required to start yesterday and not the day of the Royal assent? I think, constitutionally, that raises a really interesting issue in terms of the retrospectivity of the commencement date. And I wanted to check if the Minister would consider my amendment, which is just to bring it in line to say that, \u201CYou know what? Two days doesn\u2019t really affect things all that much.\u201D, unless it\u2019s something that we miss, which we didn\u2019t cover in this debate\u2014in which case, would the Minister consider my amendment, which changes the day of Royal assent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe second question is around clause 2(4), coming into force on 1 February 2026. I guess some of the other dates\u2014you know, limited understanding of the taxation system, I admit\u2014but 1 July 2025, in terms of the Budget year, and 1 April 2026, in terms of the financial year, that makes sense. But 1\u00A0February 2026 as a date doesn\u2019t seem to make that sense and does seem to have a level of opportunity to it in terms of the rate reduction that is going to be introduced. I also have an amendment on this, which I wondered if the Minister would consider.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EBut finally, going on to the title of this bill, and I understand that the title is \u201CTaxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2)\u201D. But, in fact, \u201CBudget Measures\u201D\u2014although it is somewhat a loose description of what this bill does\u2014doesn\u2019t actually capture some of the specificity, as we have discussed throughout this debate around the Investment Boost, around KiwiSaver, around the rate reduction of KiwiSaver, family credits, Best Start. So I have some amendments on this as well, if the Minister wouldn\u2019t mind considering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EBut I think, fundamentally, something that we have heard the Minister say over this\u2014and then when we are having this debate under urgency, which means that we didn\u2019t hear from the New Zealand public, and indeed, as we see in the regulatory impact statement, we only heard from three agencies and not even all of the agencies, such as the Ministry for Foreign Affairs and Trade\u2014is the fact that this Budget, we simply do not know this bill, we simply don\u2019t know all of the fish-hooks around it, but it seems to be something that is primarily going to benefit, yet again, the wealthy of this country, as opposed to people who are working and the lowest-earning New Zealanders in Aotearoa New Zealand. So I wonder if the Minister would consider my amendment to the title, which is to replace \u201CBudget Measures\u201D with \u201CNational Is Rich and They Are Sorted Bill\u201D? I think this is a more accurate description based on what the Prime Minister himself has said publicly, so this is just an extrapolation of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EAlternatively, I wonder if the Minister would consider\u2014because the Minister, right at the end of answering my question for the previous part, made it into a thing, where he was like, \u201CIf the Greens really care about 16- and 17-year-olds, they will vote for this bill.\u201D But I would challenge that Minister to say that if the Government really cares about 16- and 17-year-olds, they will allow 16- and 17-year-olds to vote. So if they do not allow 16- and 17-year-olds to vote, then what we are doing here is we\u2019re asking the 16- and 17-year-olds of this country to pay for this country without the eligibility to vote under our fundamental constitutional arrangement in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. If that is the case, would the Minister consider my amendment, which is changing \u201CBudget Measures\u201D to \u201CWe Want 16 and 17 Year Olds to Pay for the Country Just Not to Vote\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022435dfe280e1743cfa8d4b2c5e793921a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022435dfe280e1743cfa8d4b2c5e793921a\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you very much, Mr Chair. I won\u2019t be responding to what are not serious suggestions in regards to the title and in regards to clause 1. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIn regards to questions regarding the commencement date, and the recommendation by the senior Labour front bench member the Hon Megan Woods that we should look to delay initiatives that will bring economic growth to this country, the answer is no. We will not delay initiatives that will increase economic growth, by a year. And there is no cap or limit, other than the integrity measures outlined in the context of this bill, therefore, there cannot be any cost blowout in the context of this. This will significantly increase economic growth. For the benefit of the member: an increase in productivity leads to increases in income. Increases in income lead to increases in tax revenue. Productivity is good for an economy. Economic growth is good for an economy. This Government does not at all accept any initiative to delay such benefits that will benefit the good people of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u0022be34707075a34e7d95801cbd5e8ca9b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be34707075a34e7d95801cbd5e8ca9b3\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair and thank you, Minister, for letting us know your theory of change, which does sound quite a lot like trickle-down economics. I have a suggestion for a new name for the Taxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2). I would not do something frivolous because that is against Standing Orders, so I wouldn\u2019t consider calling it the \u201CTaxation (Paid for by Women) Bill\u201D, or I wouldn\u2019t suggest the \u201CTaxation (Corporate Welfare) Bill\u201D. However, I would like to seriously suggest\u2014following on from some of the other comments\u2014that we just change it to the \u201CInterim Taxation (Budget Measures) Bill\u201D because we have not seen a cost-benefit analysis on any of the three initiatives that have been proposed by this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThis is a committee stage; there has been no select committee. One would expect at least a CBAx to be able to test the risk appetite of the Government, the questions around blowout, and the very tenuous links\u2014and this has been brought up by the Minister of Revenue himself in his last contribution and I note how engaged the Government members were\u2014that this is going to help increase productivity and facilitate economic growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ENow, the economic growth that I think he is alluding to is 1 percent over 20 years, which is hardly ambitious. But in terms of increasing productivity, there is no nexus between the capital investment and the level of productivity that the Minister is claiming is going to lead to the economic growth. Maybe that evidence is there, but we have not seen the cost-benefit analysis. So we do not know whether his assertion is something that can be validated; what the risks are; and also all those questions that have been raised in previous contributions about the equity impacts on marginalised communities, on women, on M\u0101ori, and so on. Without that CBAx and without that analysis having been done\u2014and I\u2019m assuming it hasn\u2019t because we have asked repeatedly for that at each stage of this discussion\u2014then it would appear that there are going to be unintended consequences and there is going to be a fix.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESo I would ask the Minister, please, if we can call it the \u201CInterim Taxation (Budget Measures) Bill\u201D, then if he could please commit to coming back with the CBAx\u2014maybe today even\u2014so we could finalise it after the analysis has been done and those checks can be done to ensure that there are not going to be changes. Because if I was a betting woman, I would say we will be back here very soon, wasting the House\u2019s time trying to make the changes that will flow from the CBAx that we have not seen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6706e2bfeb348ebb913ddd5862c5d09\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6706e2bfeb348ebb913ddd5862c5d09\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E A regulatory impact statement is available for the member, which will support understanding of the matters raised. Disclosures by officials and analysis, including risks, are included within that document, and I\u2019ve noted that before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00227e72ec34a8f5480eb17b900e8b8ac232\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e72ec34a8f5480eb17b900e8b8ac232\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I take the next call, we\u2019ve had a couple of good general debate - type speeches relating to a topic, but we\u2019d now really like to get a little bit more specific, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u002293fe4c9ca8694a27a4956d46105a975e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293fe4c9ca8694a27a4956d46105a975e\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I really want the Minister of Revenue to take this point on board; so far, he hasn\u2019t. We do not know how much this is going to cost. We have been warned by senior tax accountants, by senior thinkers about our economy that this could blow out. It is listed in the fiscal risks that this particular partial expensing could blow out. So here\u2019s the sequence of events: it blows out\u2014seeing as the Minister likes to talk sequences of events\u2014it means the fiscal deficit becomes greater, the need to borrow becomes greater, the Minister then has to come back and change the rules retrospectively. What does that then do to investment certainty? What does that do to investment growth? The Minister needs to take this suggestion very, very seriously that we delay the commencement of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWe agree, Minister, economic growth is a good thing; increases in wages are a good thing; making our country more productive is a good thing. The thing is, there is massive uncertainty around this measure. Any wise investor will be holding their breath for a bit until the Government comes back with a little bit more certainty about it. Take the time, Minister, defer the start date of the partial expensing until 1 April 2026. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022 data-id=\u002252ea313b779f4e19bb70fb238e6ae2e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002252ea313b779f4e19bb70fb238e6ae2e2\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022c17ae0cee0f24ce394a6b19c2b8bb494\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c17ae0cee0f24ce394a6b19c2b8bb494\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman. I thank the Minister of Revenue for his response to my amendment to clause 2, and he raised some very interesting new information to the committee, in the course of his contribution in response to my amendment to clause 2 of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhen asked about how the Government was going to deal with the cost blowout\u2014which has been, in the last 24 hours, very clearly signalled as a risk\u2014the Minister said, and the Minister can correct me if I\u2019ve got the wrong end of the stick, but to paraphrase, it seemed to me that he was saying that there was going to be increased revenue as a consequence of the changes, because of the increases to productivity that partial expensing would bring into play. So, therefore, he did not see a risk to the commencement date, as specified in clause 2 of the bill, being where it is in the text and the reason why he should not support the amendment for us saying that we\u2019d like to have a bit more of a look at it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI just want to reiterate that nobody is arguing that actually having productivity measures for the country is good; what we have questioned through the course of this debate is whether we\u2019ve looked at all of the options. But now what we\u2019re really concerned about is the suggestions that we\u2019re seeing emerge in the media that the Government may have to come back and narrow the parameters of this measure because of the risk that it poses. This isn\u2019t just Labour saying this; this is a range of commentators that are sharing this concern that there will be businesses that go out, from today, and expense things, rightly thinking that they could claim 20 percent. The Minister is saying that there\u2019s no need to worry about that\u2014and he\u2019s introduced in the debate on this part of the bill\u2014because there will be increased revenue. Now, what we\u2019ve been told in other documentation with this bill is that we can see a 1 percent growth in GDP over 20 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to know from the Minister: what is the modelled increased revenue per year that is going to come because of the lifts in productivity in this bill, and how is that being shown to mitigate the fiscal risk that has already been clearly signalled in the Government\u2019s own Budget Economic and Fiscal Update? The Minister must be basing his claims on some modelling and some knowledge, so I think the committee needs to hear that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022e801b8af5d0641deaabbdfa7559ffb9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e801b8af5d0641deaabbdfa7559ffb9f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Scott Willis\u2014on title and commencement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022 data-id=\u00228bf3beede3c9490c9e75322137f0a9d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228bf3beede3c9490c9e75322137f0a9d1\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It is a relief because this is the first time I\u2019ve been able to take a call on this bill, and I have had a number of questions that I have wanted to put to the Minister of Revenue. I know we\u2019re on the title and commencement and I do have a suggestion for the Minister, and, in relation to that, one of the questions I wanted to put to the Minister was in relation to the Investment Boost. I wanted to ask whether the Investment Boost would apply to installing, for example, in at-home businesses solar panels, batteries, and electric vehicle (EV) chargers\u2014whether that would apply. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EWhat I have seen in the bill so far is that it certainly does apply to things that the Minister believes will boost economic growth, such as oil and gas exploration, and this is something that really relates to the title that I think is most appropriate for this bill, because we are seeing a Government that is designing policy that wants to take us to a world where we will not be able to provide for our future. This is really where the Government is heading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EMy proposal for the Minister\u2014and I hope the Minister will take this seriously, because it is seriously intended\u2014is that in clause 1, \u201CTitle\u201D, we replace the words \u201CBudget Measures\u201D with the words \u201CWe Love Oil Rigs\u201D and that would make the title the \u201CTaxation (We Love Oil Rigs) Act\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EThis is an attempt to accurately describe the Government\u2019s purpose in this bill and this Budget\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce2301cdd5404deca2d737ede03ac3bb\u0022\u003EFrancisco Hernandez\u003C/span\u003E: And this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d8a1344715b443ab25c17ac325e9672\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and this Government\u2014and to make sure this is on the record, and if we really want to get to the guts of it, Minister, we should say it like it is. We should say it like it is. This is about expanding our fossil fuel dedication. This Government has its head in the sand on climate. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e094452a25af4b4189a7f4a10dddb492\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The members opposite might like to save their voices for a closure motion, and I might be able to hear something.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a42c4254db10416884a635712f90f003\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d quite like the Minister to consider whether we want to have accurate naming, and, if not, why not. So if the Minister could give me a response, that would be really appreciated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EI have another suggestion following the Minister\u2019s response, and I\u2019m looking forward to hearing from the Minister. I\u2019d like to discuss this further, and perhaps the Minister might also like to respond to my question that I didn\u2019t get to ask earlier, which was around the Investment Boost. Does that apply to homeowners who have installed solar panels, batteries, and EV chargers? Does it apply\u2014so the Minister might want to reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022 data-id=\u00228e3c976e242e462fa8ed7935a1573edc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e3c976e242e462fa8ed7935a1573edc\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b092cc9242ab474c85493386c2efeabb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on the question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf8682fa5b2141aaa237c11e3b0d7394\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf8682fa5b2141aaa237c11e3b0d7394\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 1 to change \u201CTaxation\u201D to \u201CKiwiShaver\u201D and Reuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to insert \u201CClose\u201D before \u201CKiwiShaver\u201D are out of order as not being serious amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 1 to change \u201CBudget\u201D to \u201CAusterity\u201D and Reuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to insert \u201CCruel\u201D before \u201CAusterity\u201D are out of order as being merely an attempt to criticise the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 1 to insert \u201CCutting\u201D after \u201CBudget\u201D and Reuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to insert \u201CDeeply\u201D after \u201CCutting\u201D are out of order as being merely an attempt to criticise the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 1 to insert \u201CBlown\u201D before \u201CBudget\u201D and Reuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to insert \u201Cand Bungled\u201D before \u201CBudget\u201D are out of order as not being serious amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 1 to replace \u201CBudget Measures\u201D with \u201CAnti-savings Plan\u201D and Reuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to the amendment to replace \u201CAnti-savings Plan\u201D with \u201CCuts for Kiwis\u201D are out of order as not being serious amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 1 to insert \u201CPro-wealth\u201D before \u201CTaxation\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b316801ae3234e9aba6ee3b8dd9fc87f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00223a2ca22fb6824335b8702503c574cca2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a2ca22fb6824335b8702503c574cca2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Reuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to Arena Williams\u2019 amendment to clause 1 to replace \u201CEquity Optional\u201D with \u201CEquity Busting\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 1 to insert \u201CEquity Optional\u201D before \u201CBudget Measures\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228ebb3420ed2249c9965845a05361bdc0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1a362c620c34eea9a58accd8d82c996\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1a362c620c34eea9a58accd8d82c996\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 to change \u201CBudget Measures\u201D to \u201CNational is Rich, and They are Sorted\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 to change \u201CBudget Measures\u201D to \u201CInvestment Boost and Other Matters\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002287b6993b4ccd420bb22269ceb7ab12e4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022e29898129a4e47118fe218777b83a272\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e29898129a4e47118fe218777b83a272\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 to change \u201CBudget Measures\u201D to \u201CFamily Credit Abatement and Other Matters\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ad346ef78cdc46c18c8d405c6be79b2b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf07e5f606f046aca7c61a38695042d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf07e5f606f046aca7c61a38695042d1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 to change \u201CBudget Measures\u201D to \u201CBest Start and Other Matters\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e39233ef28e04e49ad3e9381aaa2fef6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022db54a9013ffc442e95d925b61e64826d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db54a9013ffc442e95d925b61e64826d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 to change \u201CBudget Measures\u201D to \u201CKiwiSaver Adjustments and Other Measures\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c81eee292b4941cbb7eb2cb85ebc0a71\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022017810ff653a45958c9aeb66094cbd73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022017810ff653a45958c9aeb66094cbd73\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Julie Anne Genter\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 to change \u201CBudget Measures\u201D to \u201CTaking Money from Babies to Give Tax Breaks for Utes\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 to change \u201CBudget Measures\u201D to \u201CManifesting Trickle Down Economics\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 to change \u201CBudget Measures\u201D to \u201CHoping Businesses\u2019 Savings are Passed Down as Wages\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 to change \u201CBudget Measures\u201D to \u201CLet Them Eat Cake Budget Measures\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ECelia Wade-Brown\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 to change \u201CBudget Measures\u201D to \u201CLet Them Buy Yachts Budget Measures\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 to change \u201CBudget Measures\u201D to \u201CRobbing from the Poor to Give to the Rich\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 to change \u201CBudget Measures\u201D to \u201CPetroleum on the Nature Bonfire Budget\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 1 to change \u201CBudget Measures\u201D to \u201CWe Love Oil Rigs\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Francisco Hernandez\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 to change \u201CBudget Measures\u201D to \u201CBudget Measures: Income Tax Amendment, KiwiSaver Act Amendment, Tax Administration Act Amendment\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b90a35f84d0e4741b0e0b6457c1da2f1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00223aa4ab56b6724e18bc43feeea2f0a928\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223aa4ab56b6724e18bc43feeea2f0a928\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Scott Willis\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 1 to change \u201CBudget Measures\u201D to \u201CNo Upper Limit to Climate Disasters\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ELan Pham\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 to change \u201CBudget Measures\u201D to \u201CWe Forgot Nature Is The Foundation of Our Economy\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 to change \u201CBudget Measures\u201D to \u201CWe Want 16 and 17 Year Olds to Pay for the Country Just Not to Vote\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002234a1cc174c4241fd8c308187a85b17a0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022092d50e6491c423c930943639f21f6bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022092d50e6491c423c930943639f21f6bb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 2(2) to change \u201C22 May 2025\u201D to \u201Cthe day of Royal assent\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221518f897b13d4145b7e426d2803e91e7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7cf4ee7a72d4f0f9d4e95559ceab1fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7cf4ee7a72d4f0f9d4e95559ceab1fb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Megan Woods\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 2(2) to change \u201C22 May 2025\u201D to \u201C1 April 2026\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a398f28eb2c24f0192520f1c73e43058\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00227b51abfb87384ed6aacd8cb7df09d0c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b51abfb87384ed6aacd8cb7df09d0c2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 2(4) to change \u201C1 February 2026\u201D to \u201C1 April 2026\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224e8c8191c729438fac14ee081d8329d0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002281edb1e6582647aaaef78ab2cdb67e59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281edb1e6582647aaaef78ab2cdb67e59\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 2(5) to change \u201C1 April 2026\u201D to \u201C1 July 2026\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022797cf70a9fc641f29476f44d83a56647\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00229485fad2a5dd4128bf0a52c732b739d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229485fad2a5dd4128bf0a52c732b739d4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 2(6) to change \u201C1 April 2028\u201D to \u201C1 July 2028\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220b46ef2c26844ee4bdf6744b4700994c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229b40ca80ace646c39070e537eb8c3209\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000331\u0022\u003EBill to be reported without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000332\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002270deca1d61aa4c418ebc578e417acece\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270deca1d61aa4c418ebc578e417acece\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, the committee has considered the Taxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2) and reports it without amendment. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00221a0db9488154410980ef1dd4d2de762f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a0db9488154410980ef1dd4d2de762f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is set down for third reading immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e16c8f5e0ec34376b902c8a8e6dd32da\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022ebd2e610163e4cf68d4d2903aebe632e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ebd2e610163e4cf68d4d2903aebe632e\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Taxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2) be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI would like to thank the House, again, for considering this bill as urgent, and for the contributions from members that have brought us to this stage. This Government fully recognises the immense pressure many hard-working Kiwis are under due to the rising cost of living. This is a real, urgent issue confronting households every day. That is why this Government is moving at pace to grow the economy so that we can ease the burden on households, drive down the cost of living, and give every Kiwi a fair shot at getting ahead. By growing the economy, we accelerate the recovery and deliver real support to New Zealand households and businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThis bill is designed to support households and businesses by implementing measures to boost investment, increase productivity, raise wages, and encourage savings. These are all the things that will put New Zealand on an accelerated pathway to recover and have a stronger economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI want to take a moment now to reflect on what we\u2019ve heard from people and the communities that these changes are designed to support. One voice that particularly stands out is that of Issie Mullen-Winiata. Issie is a bright, passionate 17-year-old who has advocated for ensuring that under-18-year-olds have the same KiwiSaver rights as everyone else. She brought a petition to Parliament last September. I want to share her words directly with you, because we deserve that they are heard: \u201CI am petitioning because, as an under-18-year-old worker, I find it unjust that I miss out on KiwiSaver contributions while doing the same work as those over 18. I believe this change is essential for young workers, as buying a first home in New Zealand is incredibly challenging, and this change would ensure equal access to retirement savings and support first-home buyers. In my opinion, allowing us to start saving earlier is vital to both buying a first home and ensuring retirement savings.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EMr Speaker and honourable members, Issie is exactly right. I am very proud to be part of a Government that is supporting the bill because it provides equal opportunities to our young people to start saving sooner. It will mean young people like Issie and their KiwiSaver accounts will be able to grow, and it would allow them to buy their first house or to enjoy their retirement income more comfortably.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe positive feedback for measures in this bill, particularly regarding KiwiSaver, has been overwhelming. Brendan Ward, executive head of distribution for NZ Funds says: \u201CIncluding 16- and 17-year-olds is a fantastic step, a great initiative to get young people into their investment journey.\u201D He also said, \u201CLifting the default contribution rate to 4 percent is smart. Kiwis aren\u2019t saving enough.\u201D Robyn Walker, tax partner at Deloitte New Zealand, says: \u201CIt\u2019s good to see some active thought given to improving retirement savings. When small changes are compounded over a working life, they can make a material change to what is available at retirement.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe feedback does speak for itself. No one gets to retirement wishing they had saved less. We all need to save more, and these changes will make a significant difference when people retire, allowing them to go off and enjoy their retirement how they want.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI also want to touch on Investment Boost. New Zealand needs to get the wheels of economic growth turning. This Government wants businesses to invest in their businesses, and new assets, to hire more workers, to pay higher wages, and get more money flowing through the system. That is why this Government is making it easier for businesses to invest through Investment Boost. This tax incentive will allow businesses to immediately deduct 20 percent of the cost of new capital assets. This is all about growth. With 600,000 businesses in New Zealand, Investment Boost will allow them to have a better access to tools that they need to increase productivity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EDylan Bentley, relationship associate at ANZ bank, said, \u201CInvestment Boost is a helpful change for Kiwis. For businesses looking to expand and boost productivity, this is a clear signal that now\u2019s the time to invest.\u201D Ifran Nabi, a tax adviser, said, \u201CI think this policy is a winner. The last time New Zealand businesses had such a big win in respect of a tax announcement would have been 15 years ago.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EInvestment Boost is a win for Kiwi businesses and it is a win for Kiwi workers. It\u2019s going to have significant benefits, higher wages, more job opportunities, and we are very, very proud of a Government that is bringing in this tangible change for hard-working Kiwis across this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI am humbled to be the Minister of Revenue of this Government. I want to acknowledge my Inland Revenue Department officials and our Treasury officials for the significant amount of work that they have put in in preparation and supporting this bill and the broader Budget. I acknowledge my teams and the broader teams of the Minister of Finance for that work and the context in which they have played.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ETogether, these measures and this Budget sets a clear course for New Zealand\u2019s economic recovery and sustained growth. With economic growth comes higher wages, more job opportunities, higher living standards, and more thriving businesses and thriving Kiwi households. That is why I am proud to commend the bill to the House and I look forward to its positive impact in our beautiful nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00227ea21c743b5240eb8a787f076a962bf2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ea21c743b5240eb8a787f076a962bf2\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00221dfdfd3bb595416f818fc6fb2d1a5317\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221dfdfd3bb595416f818fc6fb2d1a5317\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This is, in the final analysis, a disappointing bill. There are some aspects of this bill that, of course, we agree with\u2014there are, you know, some good things in this bill. But overall, it is disappointing and it is worrying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s start with one of the things that is a real positive in this bill. As the Minister of Revenue said, extending KiwiSaver to 16- and 17-year-olds is a very good move. We do know that getting people in earlier, enabling them to start their savings earlier, has a long, long-term benefit for them, and I think the Minister quoted Robyn Walker, a tax partner at Deloitte, who said that \u201CSmall changes are compounded over a working life and they make a big difference in the long run.\u201D So, yes, it is a wonderful idea to get 16- and 17-year-olds enrolled and contributing to KiwiSaver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EBut as small changes compound over a working life, what about big changes? What about $250 less every year in the KiwiSaver tax credit? What about the Government cutting the KiwiSaver tax credit in half? That small change, compounded over a working life\u2014well, that\u2019s going to work out to $66,000 less for someone over a lifetime for someone who\u2019s aged 20. That\u2019s the effect of compounding. This is why this is a disappointing bill. It\u2019s a good measure on one hand, putting 16- and 17-year-olds into KiwiSaver, but then it\u2019s taking away even more with the other hand. That is a very disappointing move.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThen there were the changes to Working for Families\u2014so, again, some changes there. Now, here is a good change: lifting the abatement threshold up to $47,000, I think, was the change that went through. That is a good thing. It means that people get to keep more of what they receive in Working for Families before it gets abated away. A good move, but at the same time the abatement rate was lifted so that money gets taken away faster. It was described as being fiscally neutral\u2014it could be. But here\u2019s the other change that went through, and it is quite a significant change in that regard: this Government has stepped away from universality for children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EYou know, people still talk about the old family benefit and what a difference it made to families, and one of the reasons that it made a real difference was it was simple, it was straightforward, and it was universal. We had started to work back towards that concept of universality, which we have in place for our senior citizens, and we were starting to get it in place again for our children with the Best Start payment. Every family, no matter what, received Best Start for the first year of a child\u2019s life. It was a universal payment, and it spoke to the importance of children\u2014the importance of ensuring that children get a good start. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EA Government that actually cared about children would be looking to increase the length of time for which Best Start could be received\u2014no questions asked. Instead, this Government has chosen to turn it around, and sitting in their own regulatory impact statement, it turns out that with this Government\u2019s changes to Working for Families, 61,000 families are worse off. That\u2019s one of the changes in this tax bill: 61,000 families who are worse off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThen there\u2019s the Government\u2019s partial expensing of asset purchases. It\u2019s a really interesting move, and of course on this side of the House, we do agree with trying to do something to enhance business productivity. We do agree with trying to do something around capital intensity. What that means is ensuring that firms have a stronger asset base so that then each worker is more productive. These are good things to do, but is this the right way to do it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWe found out through questioning of the Minister during the committee stage of the bill that they had not considered alternative measures. They\u2019d considered maybe decreasing the company tax rate, but they hadn\u2019t considered specific measures around increasing capital intensity, around ensuring that we have a better capital base. The only one they considered was partial expensing. Where was the work on increasing the low-value asset write-off threshold? That would have helped firms, and, in particular, it would have helped smaller firms. Where was the work around accelerated depreciation\u2014not just having this partial write-off in the first year, but an overall increase in depreciation rate? That too would have given a boost to firms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, a responsible Government would have done the analysis comparing these alternative measures\u2014not just between the company tax rate and partial expensing, but between partial expensing, increasing the low-value asset write-off threshold, and accelerated depreciation rate. Those matters should have been considered, as well. But the real problem here is that this Government has not adequately considered the risks of a blowout. We have leading thinkers in this country, leading tax people, saying that there is one hell of a risk here. John Cuthbertson, who heads up the tax division within Chartered Accountants Australia and New Zealand, has said that he is worried that there is no cap on the value of the investments that can get this tax break. That could lead to a blowout. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESitting in the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update, there is an acknowledgment that this is indeed a substantial risk. Let me read it again\u2014it needs to be in the Hansard. Sitting on page 89 of the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update, under \u201CRevenue\u201D, is a specific fiscal risk, and we don\u2019t even know how big it is because the projections are uncertain. It says, \u201CThe fiscal and economic impacts of Investment Boost are significant and have been based on some assumptions and judgments which have a degree of uncertainty. The modelled impacts use aggregate macroeconomic data as an input together with assumptions on coverage within the tax base, and forecasts of growth in investment. Variations in any of these factors can materially affect the fiscal and economic impacts of the policy.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s all very, very uncertain. There is a substantial fiscal risk, and we just don\u2019t know. This is a good move to try to increase productivity, but is this move the best move that could be made? We don\u2019t know, because the alternative analysis wasn\u2019t done, and what about all the risks associated with it? Then we were told that it would have a long-term benefit on wages, as well. But, again, sitting in the Government\u2019s own regulatory impact statement, at paragraph 75: \u201CInternational evidence provides mixed results on how the specific benefits of investment targeted tax measures are shared between workers and capital owners. This makes it difficult to better assess the distributional impacts.\u201D They say it will flow to wages, but the reality is that the evidence shows that workers never get the benefit of these changes, that the benefit of changes in the last 20 or 30 years has overwhelmingly flowed to capital, and that workers\u2019 wages have remained largely static.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIt is heroic to claim that this will flow through to workers. What we do know will flow through to workers is the changes in pay equity that have made this Investment Boost possible. This Investment Boost\u2014this partial expensing\u2014is being paid for on the backs of the women who hold this country together. That is absolutely shameful. It should never have happened. This is a very dubious bill, and we simply cannot support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00226c255e1edd844a31b9cba04582d54ee6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c255e1edd844a31b9cba04582d54ee6\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. You know, we consider this Budget to be a bit of a lolly scramble. But let us be clear: this bill is not only a lolly scramble but for the workers and wage earners of Aotearoa there aren\u2019t even any lollies in there, just sadness and despair. That\u2019s what we are seeing with this bill and that\u2019s what I\u2019ve seen throughout the committee stages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s unpack what exactly happened during the committee stage because, again, we are pushing this bill through under urgency. There is no select committee stage. We didn\u2019t hear from the people of Aotearoa. Indeed, in the regulatory impact statement, only three departments were consulted: the Treasury, the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, and also the Inland Revenue Department (IRD). That is significant later.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s start with the first part of what this bill set out to do in terms of the Investment Boost. The first issue that we have with Investment Boost is the fact that it blatantly allows subsidies for the oil and gas industry, which is fundamentally against our international obligations and also some of our free-trade agreements, particularly with the EU and the UK. This is significant risk to Aotearoa in terms of our trade potential because of the fact that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade wasn\u2019t even consulted, according to the regulatory impact statement. That is a risk. As the previous speaker, Deborah Russell, has already mentioned, we also simply do not know the magnitude. In the impact statement it states, \u201CThere is a significant uncertainty about the magnitude of the effect and how the benefits will be distributed across the economy.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI think the second part of this\u2014how this will be distributed across the economy\u2014is the crux of the issue that the Green Party has with the Investment Boost, because like we have seen leading up to this Budget, the Government will do anything other than reset the tax and be transformative in the way that we look at tax in Aotearoa, but instead will take money from the lowest-paid workers, from our women workers, and all of those by cancelling 33 pay equity claims. We are seeing the Government is willing to take money from our young people. We\u2019re seeing the Government is willing to take money from our young parents and from our children. This is what is pushing forward this Investment Boost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EWhen we are looking at the Investment Boost, there was also none of that other clarity around it, which the previous speaker, the Hon Dr Deborah Russell, has mentioned in terms of the potential blowout. All of these are a concern and that\u2019s just one part of the issue with this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s talk about family credit and Best Start. What we are seeing with the family credit\u2014yes, there is an increase in terms of the abatement rate, from $42,000 roughly to $44,900 a year. In terms of when we are looking at the gradual reduction in terms of the 27 cents in the dollar for Working for Families, we\u2019re seeing that being increased to 27 cents, 50 in the dollar, which means for every dollar earned over the threshold of $44,900, payment is reduced by 27.5 cents, which is an increase. That means that working people and young parents who are struggling, who are doing multiple jobs, will see even less money in their back pocket. That is what we are seeing when we look at the family credit because it is adjusted possibly to the level of the Consumers Price Index, but it is not adjusted to the point that our communities and the people of Aotearoa actually need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s talk about Best Start. We saw in the latest report in the regulatory impact statement 61,000 families will be worse off with this bill. Not individuals\u201461,000 families will be worse off with this. For a Government that likes to talk the talk about how much they care for the people of Aotearoa, how do they justify this? There is no justification for this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ELastly, when we are looking at KiwiSaver, this is also incredibly problematic because yes, increasing the contribution from 3 percent to 4 percent on the surface might seem like a good thing; expanding it to 16- and 17-year-olds is a good thing and is a good move. However, as we were also trying to ask the Minister of Revenue and we have got no response, how would this affect the poorest families, and also students, and also people who are just already trying to support their families? How would this work with this Government\u2019s own educational outcome achievement targets? It doesn\u2019t match up and it doesn\u2019t line up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EWhen we\u2019re looking at KiwiSaver, we can talk about the fact that, yes, employers can increase to 4 percent and employees increase to 4 percent. For those people who are on minimum wage, they\u2019re already struggling as it is. For them to match that, they have to also increase their contribution to 4 percent. Not only that, we are also still seeing employers who take the employer contribution out from the remuneration of their employee, which means that for some employees, particularly those in really vulnerable employment situations such as retail and hospitality, we\u2019re seeing that rather than contributing 6 percent, they\u2019re now looking at contributing the 8 percent without any signal from this Government that their salary will be significantly increased. That itself is an issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ESecond issue with the KiwiSaver that has been introduced under this bill is the fact that the Government paints this beautiful picture about the fact that yes, people will save more, but they themselves have chickened out on contributing more for New Zealanders. They themselves have halved their Government contribution from over $500 to $250. That is cowardice. If you really care about the people of Aotearoa, you would have highlighted that. If you\u2019re going to take money from New Zealanders, you might as well come out and say it proudly. Don\u2019t hide behind all of this other smokescreen that is being created trying to say that what you\u2019re doing is a good thing. In fact, it is not for the people of Aotearoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe final issue when it comes to the KiwiSaver readjustment that we see here is the fact that the Government has once again created more blue tape for people to try and get rate reduction if they say, \u201CWe simply can\u2019t afford to pay 4 percent.\u201D; \u201CWell, here\u2019s an option for you to remain at 3 percent, but you have to do it every single year and you have to keep on reapplying for it.\u201D As we have seen with the shambles that was FamilyBoost, introduced by this Government last year, $14 million was done through admin. We haven\u2019t even got out of this Minister how much this Kiwi boost and this rate reduction application is going to cost IRD. That wasn\u2019t even something we were able to get out of the Minister during the committee stage. But what we do know is more and more people may potentially opt out of KiwiSaver because it simply is too hard for them to try and apply for a rate reduction on a year-to-year basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that does not care for New Zealanders. This is a Government that doesn\u2019t care about young people. Again, if you really care about the 16- and 17-year-olds, if you really think that they\u2019re going to be working, they\u2019re going to be contributing to KiwiSaver, let them vote\u2014let them vote. Instead, what we are seeing is once again cosmetic changes and smokescreens have been created. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EIn our Green Budget that we have announced, we want to see a variation, a transformative change to the way we look at tax. The Investment Boost that the Government and the Minister said is based on the US and Canada\u2014guess what! They have a capital gains tax. Canada has a form of windfall tax. We do not even have that. There is no barrier to investment; there is no risky investment in Aotearoa. Under our Budget, we\u2019ll see a transformative tax system that benefits the people of Aotearoa. We see that benefiting hundreds and thousands more families because we will increase that abatement rate and we will increase what people get. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022 data-id=\u00221f9a9b67aa8d4cf5badf4677c25036b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f9a9b67aa8d4cf5badf4677c25036b9\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Look, it\u2019s a pleasure to stand on behalf of ACT and talk on the Taxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2)\u2014the first bill in what was a very responsible, sensible, and future-looking Budget that was delivered yesterday. ACT is very proud to be standing on this side of the House with our Government partners and actually putting in place a Budget not just for today but for the future, and this bill is a very important part of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EWhat we have clearly signalled to New Zealanders in this Budget is this: we understand there are still cost of living pressures, we understand that we need to invest in the public services they expect, but we also need to put in place the foundations for a growing economy to deliver higher-paying jobs and wages and also get our education settings right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EOf course, in this bill we see the Investment Boost, which is an amazing policy to actually get our productive sector, allow them to invest in capital, make sure we\u2019re actually building the jobs and getting the technology to address things like our productivity deficit under control. So that\u2019s great.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s obviously some important changes in KiwiSaver, which I think across the House everyone universally accepts that New Zealanders need to be saving for their future and some important changes being made, including some very important Working for Families changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019ve taken out of the very positive Budget that this side of the House and this Government has delivered is exactly that: it\u2019s a positive Budget by a positive Government which actually is looking to grow New Zealand, ensure we have the right skills, we have actually a productive sector and deliver for businesses and families and farms and actually make sure our children have the skills and education for the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s very clear to see, when you look in the Budget, where we\u2019re investing the money that things like this bill are delivering and ensuring we get in place. That\u2019s in health, that is in the Investment Boost, that is in defence, and that is in education. This Budget is a Budget for today, but it\u2019s also a Budget for their future and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022 data-id=\u00227b270c5ab1d847968b1142529f6e9f72\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b270c5ab1d847968b1142529f6e9f72\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First in this third reading of the Taxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2). I think it\u2019s oozing from the other side of the House\u2014I think they like this policy; I think they like Investment Boost. I started to hear them warming up to it during the committee of the whole House\u2014and also the KiwiSaver changes. I think, deep down, they wish that they had come up with those ideas that this Government has come up with in this Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EI want to say, firstly, congratulations to our finance Minister and our Minister of Revenue, who have put this together, and congratulations to the Associate Ministers that have worked on this. Investment Boost: starting today, investing into capital; 600,000 businesses, 50,000 farm holdings across this country\u2014they get can get out and start investing into capital, into productive assets that will employ people, that will change the dial, that will put out economy back on track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThis is a flagship policy. This is something we will come back into this House\u20142025: what did this Government deliver? They delivered Investment Boost. It is, as I said yesterday, a game-changer. This side of the House thought of it; that side of the House is going, \u201COh no, they\u2019ve come up with something.\u201D A game-changer for business; a game-changer for our economy. And what a game-changer in KiwiSaver for our young people, 16- and 17-year-olds, those contributions from the Government and their employer. They\u2019re going to be able to get their first home sooner. They\u2019re going to save more. We\u2019ve come up with it. Support us. You should be on board with this. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022 data-id=\u00221d044ffef9d440dab56201a038ede5de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d044ffef9d440dab56201a038ede5de\u0022\u003ETAKUTAI TARSH KEMP (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014T\u0101maki Makaurau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. I rise on behalf of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori to share our\u2014and show our\u2014fierce opposition to this bill, the Taxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2). This is a Budget that attacks the poor. It attacks M\u0101ori, attacks beneficiaries, attacks parents. It\u2019s the \u201Cno BS Budget\u201D, the \u201Cno fudge-it Budget\u201D, the \u201Cyeah, nah Budget\u201D. The Budget that is built on the suffering and misery of our people. E te iwi: we represent 1 million people of this population. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1facad56b574523a74cb67ef0fdb7c1\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: No, you don\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6fb8095e99e4360898cefc489eb189d\u0022\u003ETAKUTAI TARSH KEMP\u003C/span\u003E: We are 20 percent of this population. Yes, we are; we are 20 percent. The total Budget, $188 billion, and this Government only sees M\u0101ori to be represented at 0.27 percent of its annual Budget. Wow, that\u2019s all we\u2019re worth to this country, yet this country was built on our people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s talk KiwiSaver. KiwiSaver, the scheme for our kaum\u0101tua and kuia. They\u2019ve worked hard. They have been part of a scheme that is there to be available for them to access at age 25. They\u2019ve worked hard so that they can\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c7fe04f77694417ba6a5cf843fa35b0\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: Twenty-five?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022607ead7ff91b49a3abfbec9e75f31a99\u0022\u003ETAKUTAI TARSH KEMP\u003C/span\u003E: Age 65, sorry\u201465, I correct myself. Oh, we\u2019re good at maths. We\u2019re good at mathing. Age 65\u2014but our people don\u2019t live that long. We don\u2019t even get to access our KiwiSaver. Yet this Government shared yesterday that they\u2019re going to halve their contribution because they\u2019re saving\u2014saving on the backs of our people. We will no longer get the contribution of $500. It\u2019s been halved. We\u2019re now going to get 25 percent of that. It\u2019s now gone down to $260\u2014$260. What is that worth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EKiwiSaver was meant to be there for our retirement. It\u2019s meant to be there so that we can have access to the future\u2014the future of our mokopuna. But we will no longer live to access the KiwiSaver. That\u2019s why it\u2019s a \u201Cyeah, nah Budget\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EE te iwi: we\u2019ve got a cost of living crisis. I don\u2019t hear anything from this Government to help us improve the cost of living. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022907ee392294e461eb437e6044afe5a5e\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s because you\u2019re not here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022848186e73432473e8bb88df1692ee5d7\u0022\u003ETAKUTAI TARSH KEMP\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I\u2019m here. We are not hearing anything that is going to improve the cost of living. Our people are starving. They\u2019re lining up to the food banks. There\u2019s no increase for food banks. There are 2.8 million people living under the minimum wage; that\u2019s 59 percent of this population. There are 3.2 million living under the living wage; that\u2019s 68 percent of this country. The cost of living pressures are hard. They\u2019re stressing our people out. Our wh\u0101nau are struggling out on the streets. It\u2019s increasing mental health issues, it\u2019s increasing health issues, but we see no increase in p\u016Btea for M\u0101ori health in this country, again; another part of this \u201Cyeah, nah Budget\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EThey say parents are going to get an increase of $14 a fortnight. That\u2019s $7 a week. That doesn\u2019t even buy you a pound of butter. That doesn\u2019t help with the bread and butter issues that our people are facing. It\u2019s $11 for butter. It\u2019s $12, apparently, in Te Kao. We\u2019ve got an increase in homelessness. There\u2019s 113,000 people homeless in this country. There are 246,000 vacant houses. Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori want to introduce a vacant house policy; we\u2019re going to make sure that our wh\u0101nau are housed. E te iwi: this is a \u201Cyeah, nah Budget\u201D. We\u2019re getting nothing from this Budget of 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca436b7b03824b608be073b3219be0bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca436b7b03824b608be073b3219be0bf\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to take a call on this bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d232c82f905f4ab180c7286a1382fb4c\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Here we go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5047dbfa9f14510a58ee3c11584d450\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, here we go, indeed, Mr Seymour. There\u2019s been a lot of rhetoric from this Government about how they are the better economic managers, about how they are going to create productivity, how they are going to create economic growth, and how they are going to attract capital to New Zealand. But what\u2019s actually been the net result of their 18 months of misgovernance? Minus 0.5 percent rate of annual growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EThey keep attacking us, on the Government benches, for degrowth, but they are the ones that have actually practised degrowth. This Government continues to perpetuate that outdated economic thinking, which has led to New Zealand\u2019s worst economic growth in recent memory. What is that outdated economic thinking? It\u2019s that outdated economic thinking which this Taxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2) confirms. And what is that? It\u2019s that outdated thinking which views extractive institutions as the primary way to generate economic growth. That was thoroughly debunked by the Nobel Prize winner Daron Acemoglu last year\u2014forgive my pronunciation of his surname. His central thesis was that extractive institutions, like this Government is seeking to perpetuate by their handouts to landlords, by their handouts to fossil fuel companies, by their handouts to the sorts of institutions that have actually led New Zealand to the state it is in now, versus the economic institutions that actually generate real growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s go through how this bill actually doesn\u2019t do what they\u2019re saying that it does. It is really telling\u2014really telling\u2014in their example in this legislation that they referred to \u201CThomas\u201D\u2014\u201CThomas\u201D who bought a yacht. How relatable to so many New Zealanders, who are out there buying yachts! Now \u201CThomas\u201D with the yacht, he\u2019s bought a yacht for $100,000\u2014I don\u2019t even know; I think yachts are more expensive than that. That thinking and their example of \u201CThomas\u201D shows who they\u2019re actually governing for. They are governing in the interest of these extractive institutions, they are governing in the interests of overseas buyers, who they are selling our conservation land to. They are not governing for the needs and interests of everyday New Zealanders. That\u2019s why they\u2019ve gone silent. They\u2019ve stopped heckling because they know I have them dead to rights. They know that they can\u2019t defend what they\u2019re doing. We know that this bill and their policies leave 61,000 families worse off. We know that in the regulatory impact statement, it states that the changes to KiwiSaver and the options that were considered will decrease disposable income, reduce profitability, and may lead to\u2014I can\u2019t actually read my handwriting, but it leads to bad things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI just want to reflect the echoes of what has already been said before: this Government is, actually, fundamentally serious. The halving of the contribution rate actually shows that they are prioritising\u2014they have this idea that they want to increase savings for people, but in reality, the reducing of the Government contribution rate will disincentivise people from saving; that\u2019s what the regulatory impact states. And it\u2019s more likely to reduce the saving rates of people that actually can\u2019t afford the higher contribution rate. Look, we\u2019ve heard that they can just opt out of that, but as we\u2019ve heard in the contribution from my colleague Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan, they\u2019ve put in a sea of blue, black, and yellow tape to actually stop people from being able to automatically opt into the higher rate. They\u2019ve put in a lot of barriers for people. That fundamentally shows\u2014and we\u2019ve seen this in the Budget, we\u2019ve seen this in the Budget bill\u2014who they\u2019re governing in the interests of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EYou\u2019ve heard my colleague Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan, and you heard from my colleague Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick yesterday, talk about what the alternative vision is. Instead of having bills like this, and instead of having an economy that prioritises the extractive institutions, instead of having an economy that prioritises overseas investors and landlords and tobacco companies, we could have an economy that invests in people and planet through the Green Budget. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022c15304661fe94df087be236b20683487\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c15304661fe94df087be236b20683487\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E How disappointing it is that this Opposition is voting against these fantastic KiwiSaver measures. They go on about losing the Government contribution, but that Government contribution is being reduced by $5 a week\u2014it is being reduced by $5 a week, and that is being swamped by the fact that we are lifting the default rate from 3 percent to 4 percent. For the average person at the end of their working life at retirement, their nest egg will be more than 20 percent larger. For a working parent on the average income, their nest egg when they get to 65 will go from $397,000 to over $500,000. They will be over $100,000 better off, and you\u2019re arguing about $5 a week. That\u2019s how ridiculous it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EThe KiwiSaver changes, the lift of the\u2014oh geez, I\u2019m losing my place here\u2014our changes to KiwiSaver will lift the value of the nest eggs by over $3.3 million, \u201C$3 million Kiwis\u201D. Labour brought in KiwiSaver, and they are now voting against this. The Green Party voted for the 2006 legislation, and they are now voting against this. They are voting against 16- and 17-year-olds being able to join this scheme. It\u2019s an absolute disgrace. I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002241ba2b80ad444be8b0b3df67aa3ddfe5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241ba2b80ad444be8b0b3df67aa3ddfe5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the time has come for me to leave the Chair for the lunch break. The House will resume at 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 12.56 p.m. to 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00228d27acf427ed4e729e533a8450f38f6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d27acf427ed4e729e533a8450f38f6d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Good afternoon, members. When we broke for the lunch break, we were up to the third reading of the Taxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2), and we were up to call No. 8, which is the Labour Party call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00226272ff833c314543b6f73dcc2337c9dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226272ff833c314543b6f73dcc2337c9dd\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is a pleasure to come back and spell out exactly why it is that Labour is not supporting this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EJust before we broke for the lunch break, we were hearing from one of the Government speakers about what a boon $5 a week would be for people. Now, we cannot underestimate the compounding value of $5 a week, what that means to people, and they were talking about the cost to that. But I want this House and I want all of those watching to put that against the cost that this Budget comes at, and that is nearly $3 billion a year for working women and the way their work is valued in this country. Because that is what is paying for these Budget initiatives. Let\u2019s not make any mistake: it is the money that has been set aside in the Budget that this Budget lays bare is gone, that has been cut by this Budget to make sure that our hospice nurses, our Plunket nurses, our care and support workers\u2014that these people\u2019s work that hold up our country is valued and paid fairly\u2014that is what is paying for this Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThis is being touted as the centre piece of National\u2019s so-called growth Budget. It lost favour even before the Budget was released; the finance Minister was having to try and find new names for the Budget, couldn\u2019t carry through with the charade of the \u201Cgrowth Budget\u201D moniker that the Prime Minister had come up with\u2014that was even too much for her to bear. So let\u2019s have a look at what lies at the heart of this so-called growth agenda for the Government. This legislation that we\u2019ve been debating is the first piece and does three things. It puts in place the Investment Boost, it makes changes to the KiwiSaver regime, and it makes changes to Best Start. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s start with the Investment Boost. This is a $6 billion policy that the Government has said sits at the heart of what they want to achieve for New Zealand. Now, on this side of the House we\u2019ve been very clear: we are not opposed to measures that will increase productivity. We just want some certainty about them. We want to know they\u2019ve been fully evaluated. We want to know that if we\u2019re going to spend $6 billion, and maybe counting\u2014we\u2019ll get back to that\u2014if we\u2019re spending that much money on lifting New Zealand\u2019s productivity, then it\u2019s the best use of $6 billion, because $6 billion is no small change. But what we saw in the documentation with this legislation is it was only compared to cuts in the corporate tax rate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ENow, I think anybody knows that there is more than one way to skin a cat and more than one way to lift a country\u2019s productivity. The fact is that we hadn\u2019t looked at all the options before $6 billion was spent. Let\u2019s be very clear: what this policy is offering is 1 percent growth on GDP over 20 years. So let\u2019s be very clear of the extent of the ambition that this Government has for the growth of the New Zealand economy. Furthermore, the documentation that came with this legislation did warn that of the wage growth that could accompany that 1.5 percent over a 20-year period, you couldn\u2019t be sure how much that that would actually accrue to workers. They also couldn\u2019t be sure how much of the growth benefits would actually accrue in New Zealand, given that this was a bill that is targeting foreign investment as well. So it\u2019s not even sure if New Zealanders are going to benefit by the economy and wages and growth growing by these small amounts over a 20-year period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EOne of my real concerns about this measure is the lack of thought that this Government has put into it, so much so that one of their own Ministers had to come back to the House last night just to check that this was uncapped and could apply to everything. Now, in what we call the BEFU, the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update, it lists the fiscal risk, and that is this policy, the Investment Boost. Because this Government\u2014I think inadvertently\u2014has made this policy so broad that nobody is sure how much it\u2019s going to cost, and we\u2019re not going to know until the first round of filings are done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ENow, it is listed as a fiscal risk. But we, in the last 24 hours, have had some of the country\u2019s top tax experts coming out and warning about the fiscal risks to the Government\u2019s books from the lack of work that this Government had done around this piece of legislation. When Shane Jones couldn\u2019t believe his luck, he had to come back and check with Ministers before he confirmed to media, because he couldn\u2019t even imagine that his Government would have left the country that exposed with that big a blank cheque that had been out there. But he did seem pleased to think that this was the return to Muldoonism that New Zealand First has always been after.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s have a look at the other measures in this bill and why Labour cannot support it. If we have a look at the changes to the KiwiSaver regime, we freely agree that giving access to KiwiSaver for young people, for 16- and 17-year-olds is a good thing. But what we cannot support and will not support is the cuts to the Government contribution. This is halving the amount that the Government puts in. We\u2019ve heard all kinds of nonsense from Government members that people are going to end up with more. They\u2019re going to end up with more because it\u2019s their own savings, but what they are missing out on is the Government partnering with them on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ENow, if we add up in compound what someone who is 18 or 20 years old at the moment is going to miss out on by the time they retire, it\u2019s $66,000 that they would have otherwise had in their KiwiSaver account had the Government contribution remained in place. Let\u2019s look at that for a 30-year-old: it\u2019s $30,000 that they\u2019re missing out on had the Government contribution stayed in place. We do have concerns that this is going to mean that young people are missing out and this is needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s also have a look at the changes to Best Start. I think some of the things that the Government hasn\u2019t addressed\u2014this is a bill that has gone through under urgency. We\u2019re on to the third reading. It\u2019s 24 hours since the country learnt about it, but what is going to happen to the marginal effective tax rates? We get some clues to this within the documentation with the legislation that, actually, it is going to raise the effect of marginal tax rate of 9,000 people in New Zealand. Who are these people? Who are the people whose tax is going to increase? What are the distributional impacts of that and how is it going to occur? What we do know is that these changes are going to mean that there are thousands of families who are going to be $43 a week worse off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve had the Government tell us that some families will be $7 a week better off. That\u2019s $7 a week. As it\u2019s been pointed out multiple times, it\u2019s not even enough for a block of butter. But let\u2019s put that $7 gain against what could have occurred if pay equity funding had not been cut and if we had paid fairly our hospice nurses, our Plunket nurses, our care and support workers\u2014the very people\u2019s pay that is being cut in order to pay for this Government\u2019s Budget. If you want to talk about relieving the cost of living, about making lives better for working people and working families in New Zealand, then do not cut $3\u00A0billion a year that was destined to increase the wages of people, because that is what is paying for this Budget. That is what lies at the heart of it and why Labour will not and cannot support this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re into the third reading. I would like to see a Government Minister take to their feet and tell us how they\u2019re going to protect New Zealand against what I think could be an inadvertent door that has been left open for a massive blank cheque for the New Zealand taxpayer. How are we going to ensure that even more cuts aren\u2019t going to be required to pick up the tab for this? Because the risks are there, they have been signalled, but the Government will not respond to it. It is their job; it is their responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThis is a Budget that really has been about a Government showing its priorities, showing its choices, and showing where it puts worth. And what it has told the women of New Zealand is they are worthless. That is what this Budget tells them. For the women of New Zealand, this will go down in history as the \u201Cworthless Budget\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1e5a1e23c0744d691f506d1ca3efd32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1e5a1e23c0744d691f506d1ca3efd32\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, it\u2019s so good; it\u2019s so exciting. I just had to remind some of my colleagues to silence their phones because they are off the hook. We\u2019re hearing from tradies and business owners. It\u2019s just such good news about the 20 percent depreciation. Apparently, it can even work for earthquake strengthening. My colleague here Carl Bates has just had a text message from a manufacturer saying they can now invest an extra half a million dollars this year because of the incentive. It\u2019s so good\u2014it\u2019s so good. And we know now\u2014I just saw Shamubeel from Simplicity KiwiSaver say contributions will increase by $1,014 per annum because increased contributions more than offset subsidy reductions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u00225b89e011e7b647cfa108c29514f23315\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b89e011e7b647cfa108c29514f23315\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. This bill is the centrepiece of a Budget that is being paid for by women and young people. Listening to the committee stage over the last two days, I have real regret that the Taxation Principles Reporting Act, which was repealed last year, wasn\u2019t in play as we could have had a proper analysis of some of the equity impacts of the bill, including things like vertical and horizontal equity. But, no, this Government doesn\u2019t like transparency around taxation and instead they have tabled a bill that purports to lift capital investment, increase productivity, and facilitate economic growth and then has a bunch of cuts paid for by women.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s look at what this bill is saying it purports to do, because the partial deductions, first of all, are made on an assumption of increased productivity. They are deemed to be, we heard\u2014I think the Minister of Revenue said he had a feeling that it was about right at 20 percent, and we have not seen the cost-benefit analysis of that. We have quite rightly interrogated what the blowout would be if there is going to be a huge capital investment, and yet also there is the absolute lack of ambition from this Government to say that it is going to increase productivity by 1 percent over 20 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThe point was made by the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor about the massive leap of faith that a capital investment was going to lead to increase productivity, and we did not see any value-for-money comparators. For example, what would the similar amount of investment have done if it was put into people, into training, into keeping young people in training and tertiary institutes, or into upskilling? None of that comparative was made, because we did not see the evidence of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThe was just a very brief analysis, and actually quite a flawed process in my view, with all due respect, where we did not get to ask questions in some of the sections\u2014for example, why commercial buildings qualify for the partial deduction and what would happen for Airbnb units, and so on. We did not even get to pose those questions before amendments were voted on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThen we turn to the Best Start deductions and means testing, which is effectively going to put 61,000 families back by $43 a week. Now, let\u2019s be clear that for a family with two adults working full time and on the minimum wage, they will no longer be eligible according to the calculations. That is quite a horrendous shift. When we think about the first 2,000 days, the excellent work that\u2019s been done by the University of Otago near my electorate on the value of investing in children, that doesn\u2019t make sense\u2014also the case when we consider that what the bill could have done was increase incomes for a family or recognise front-line social service providers. It could have invested in early prevention and early investment when we consider that New Zealand is No. 32 out of 36 wealthy countries when it comes to the child wellbeing statistics, which is nothing to be proud of, and that a third\u201427 percent\u2014of our children go hungry. The Ministry of Social Development\u2019s own research shows a strong correlation between this payment and attendance at school, something that this Government says it is committed to and is putting extra money into in another part of the Budget. It simply doesn\u2019t add up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EFinally, when we look at KiwiSaver once again, 66,000 young people will have less for their retirement. The Retirement Commissioner has queried the equity of it, and in fact I would like to quote from something she said this morning, \u201CI would at least have liked to see some of the savings from reducing Government contributions be applied to serving these groups where we see the widest gap.\u201D And she is talking about low-income earners, M\u0101ori, Pacific, women, and people who are marginalised. None of the savings from that will go to them. Instead, what we\u2019re hearing is that there will be a kind of lidless ability for big business, mining, farmers, and others to be able to get a partial deduction, once again paid for on the backs of women. We saw some really tricky things around being able to even access an ability to stay at the 3 percent mark for those who would like to. Clearly, the Government doesn\u2019t care about working people. I do not commend it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022181aca653b7f413c8cfaa9cd5e732c3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022181aca653b7f413c8cfaa9cd5e732c3c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the next call, can I just say to members on my right that if they want to have a full-volume conversation, please, take it out into the lobby.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u00224ebe52bb86164e01adc860c2900098ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ebe52bb86164e01adc860c2900098ac\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E In summary, what have we learnt from this debate? This is great policy: Investment Boost, KiwiSaver\u2014jointly, this will make a difference to New Zealand\u2019s productivity, economic growth, and savings challenges. It\u2019s such great policy that Labour loves it: Barbara Edmonds loves it, Deborah Russell loves it, and Megan Woods loves it. The public love this policy, but yet Labour is going to vote against it. We are focused on what matters to Kiwis; we are focused on growth. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022548889eb15a347fab79eeec66787df0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022548889eb15a347fab79eeec66787df0d\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Let\u2019s call this Budget for what it is: it\u2019s a slap in the face for working Kiwis. It\u2019s a Budget written by a Minister of Finance and a Government that are out of touch with everyday Kiwis. It isn\u2019t economic leadership; it\u2019s political cowardice, and it\u2019s self-serving and it\u2019s short-sighted. Every line of this Budget shows who this Government is really working for, and it\u2019s not working Kiwis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis Government campaigned hard on the cost of living crisis, and the number one issue still for New Zealanders is cost of living. And there is absolutely nothing in this Budget to help Kiwis struggling to put food on the table and pay their weekly bills. That\u2019s the most glaring betrayal in this Budget: the complete failure to address the cost of living crisis. That is why this Budget has not been well received by the people of New Zealand. Groceries, rent, electricity, rates, everything is going up, and there is nothing in this Budget to help alleviate that pain being felt every day in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWhat did this Budget give them? Let\u2019s take a look: $7 a week\u2014$7 a week. That\u2019s to help 142,000 families. That\u2019s the flagship in this Budget to households under pressure. Let\u2019s be honest: it\u2019s not even going to cover butter or cheese\u2014anything substantial. But do you think those members opposite have even thought of that\u2014how far $7 is going to go for the average New Zealander? And while families get seven bucks, businesses are able to claim $6.6 billion in tax write-offs. This Government is showing exactly who it values, and it is not the working families of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EBest Start\u2014let\u2019s take a look at that. If you thought the first part was cruel, take a look at what is being done to new parents. The Best Start payment was to support families with newborn babies, and that is now being cut back and income tested in this legislation today. For families earning a combined income of above $97,000, they no longer get that. That\u2019s not wealth. We\u2019re talking about two average incomes: two teachers, two nurses, a tradie and a retail worker. Those people no longer get help with affording nappies, formula, and extra expenses when you have a newborn baby. \u201CTough luck, you\u2019re on your own.\u201D is what this Government is saying to those people earning that amount. In the same breath, this Budget has delivered $15 million in additional funding for private schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EKiwiSaver\u2014let\u2019s have a look at that, because what the Government has done is not just short-sighted, it is shameful. The Government\u2019s contribution to KiwiSaver is being slashed in half. As we\u2019ve heard, that has an impact of $66,000 at the end of the line for an 18-year-old today or $30,000 less at retirement for a 30-year-old after they retire. Let\u2019s be clear: that\u2019s not an accounting change; it\u2019s a direct attack on working people\u2019s retirement. It is those people that are doing it even tougher under this Government by doing that to KiwiSaver, and further to means testing KiwiSaver as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWorking for Families: 61,000 people are no longer entitled to Working for Families under this Budget, which is meant to help with cost of living. What happened to the catchcry of the squeezed middle that were going to be helped out by this Government? They went really hard out by saying, \u201CThe squeezed middle needs some extra assistance.\u201D Well, the squeezed middle just got squeezed right out on this Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThey\u2019re not getting any assistance with the change of those KiwiSaver levels. Already around the numbers of people withdrawing their KiwiSaver due to hardship, we\u2019ve seen record numbers over the last few months of people drawing down their KiwiSaver because they can\u2019t afford to make the personal contributions. Well, by decreasing the Government contribution and increasing the personal contribution, that just makes it even more likely that New Zealanders will be put under strain and be required to withdraw their KiwiSaver due to hardship, which makes it even harder down the line for New Zealanders to be able to retire comfortably. This is a short-sighted Budget that does not consider the long-term impacts to hard-working Kiwi families who are just trying to get by. It is a raid on the future of every New Zealander who\u2019s doing the right thing: saving a little every payday and hoping they\u2019ll be able to retire with some dignity. It puts that dream even further out of reach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EInvestment Boost\u2014let\u2019s take a look at that. We\u2019ve had some good analysis come through on that. Treasury analysts have had a look and said that at a $6 billion cost, GDP, increasing productivity\u2014great, but will it really do it? One percent growth in GDP over 20 years. That\u2019s crazy\u20141 percent over 20 years. And a 1.5 percent increase in wages. And we don\u2019t even know if that\u2019s going to go to workers or not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThen, on top of that, as we\u2019ve had the opportunity to take a little bit of a look at the documents, the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update has it listed as a clear fiscal risk, because there is no idea on what the cap is. In fact, we have the Minister of Finance not knowing what the actual cap is. Shane Jones didn\u2019t know what the cap was and he had to come back downstairs and figure out what was going on last night. And so we have, with all New Zealand\u2019s 500,000-plus small businesses, if each of them made, say, a $10,000 claim under this scheme in investment in computers or machinery or hardware, that pretty much blows the scheme\u2014that\u2019s the whole scheme gone; let alone if you\u2019ve got a couple of billion-dollar oil rigs or commercial developments swallowing up most of the money. It\u2019s noted as a fiscal risk because there is no cap on it. The Minister of Revenue, and Inland Revenue on top of this, are yet to decide whether earthquake remediation to existing commercial buildings will be included or not\u2014we don\u2019t even know that. All of those buildings that need earthquake remediation, we still don\u2019t know whether they\u2019re eligible for this investment boost for that work to be done. Looking forward to seeing if that will happen. And if it does, that\u2019s $1.7 billion of that money swallowed up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ENow we\u2019ve taken a look at that, let\u2019s take a look at what\u2019s happening with the overall view of what it means for the future of New Zealand. It really provides no hope, because it provides no vision of where we\u2019re heading as a nation. What we\u2019ve been told is \u201CThis is efficiency and this is fiscal discipline.\u201D, when we all know what it is: it\u2019s austerity. It\u2019s a Budget that\u2019s not just out of touch; it\u2019s designed to make people give up. Give up on saving, give up on getting ahead, and give up on the idea that this Government might actually be on their side, when quite clearly it\u2019s not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EAnd the worst part of this is the spin that we see put on it. Nicola Willis can stand up and claim that families are going to be better off after no meaningful relief, no protection for savers, no support for parents, and taking money off women. That\u2019s what this Budget is going to go down for. You show me one family that got the $250 they were promised in the last Budget\u2014just one\u2014because there is not one family that this Government can show what their last promise delivered. Even the finance Minister can\u2019t show that there\u2019s one, because, behind the spin, behind the slogans, there\u2019s nothing for Kiwis in this Budget, just like the previous one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis Budget is a disaster for working people, and Labour will oppose it at every stage of the way. We believe that Budgets should be about building up, not tearing down. This Government has chosen to balance the books off the backs of working women, young people, and working families. They\u2019ve taken the future earnings away from hard-working people. They\u2019ve cut the KiwiSaver contribution, they\u2019ve means tested KiwiSaver, they\u2019ve means tested Best Start, they\u2019ve cut 61,000 from receiving Working for Families, but New Zealanders can see through it, and we will make sure that they don\u2019t forget this. We will stand with working people and we will oppose this Budget at every step of the way, because it will be remembered as the \u201CInequality Budget\u201D, that took money away from working New Zealand women and put it into places that drove no productivity whatsoever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022541fded349f04e5580227418aeb71e21\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022541fded349f04e5580227418aeb71e21\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National):\u003C/span\u003E As the final Government MP to stand in support of this bill, let\u2019s put it on record what New Zealanders really think\u2014Opposition, listen up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EOn record today: Dunedin manufacturers call this tax deduction a great step forward. Business New Zealand says that Investment Boost will drive capital upgrades. The Employers and Manufacturers Association says that it boosts productivity and puts more in workers\u2019 pockets. BusinessDesk says that Minister of Finance, Nicola Willis, has just given businesses the green light to invest. And there is more. On KiwiSaver, the Retirement Commission says that the changes could make savings last 30 percent longer. Radio New Zealand reports that 80 percent of the KiwiSaver contributors will benefit. Pie Funds calls it a game-changer for retirement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s be clear: the Opposition is voting no to business growth. The Opposition is voting no to more retirement savings. But this Government is backing business, backing savers, and building a stronger economy for all New Zealanders. So let\u2019s make it law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223476ae494cc3456a8e00e69885e8d778\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Taxation (Budget Measures) Bill (No 2) be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000445\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228976d494932e417da43e53330c37ce3a\u0022\u003ERegulatory Standards Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002262335b7e60994a53a9c6b18e3bcc8053\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00228554596019d647c081476cd42fe33adf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228554596019d647c081476cd42fe33adf\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Minister for Regulation):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Regulatory Standards Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cfe8c028aef4df78aa0933435ec6c9d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022377a0cacdaf944138f6edb4232b75a32\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Regulatory Standards Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Finance and Expenditure Committee to consider the bill, and at the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 23\u00A0December 2025. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI\u2019m extremely excited to introduce the Regulatory Standards Bill to this House. This bill is a crucial piece of legislation for improving the long-term quality of regulation in our country and, ultimately, allowing New Zealanders to live longer, happier, healthier, and wealthier lives. But the political left have got themselves in quite a lather about the Regulatory Standards Bill. The hard left Auckland law professor Jane Kelsey helpfully explains that the bill is \u201Cbasically about the protection of private property and wealth.\u201D Well, Jane, now you\u2019re catching on. Funnily enough, she seemed to think that her comments were a criticism, and, judging by some of the commentary I\u2019ve heard from the other side of the House, I\u2019m not sure that they know what\u2019s in the bill, but, thankfully, my job is to explain it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIn a nutshell: if red tape and regulation is holding New Zealanders back because politicians find it politically rewarding to tie them in red tape, then we need to make regulating less rewarding for politicians by putting more sunlight on their activities. That is how the Regulatory Standards Bill will help New Zealand get its mojo back. This bill turns the explanation from politicians\u2019 \u201CBecause we said so.\u201D into \u201CBecause here is the justification, according to a set of principles.\u201D And to the rest of my colleagues across the House: if you want to tax someone, take their property, and restrict their livelihood, you can, but you\u2019ll actually have to show why it\u2019s in the public interest. The bill demands you show your working. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIt aims to reduce the amount of unnecessary poor-quality regulation by setting a clear standard for what good regulation should look like through a set of principles in primary legislation, and those principles of responsible regulation focus on the effect that legislation has on rights and liberties, as well as establishing processes for good lawmaking. In setting the standards this way, the bill seeks to bring the same level of discipline to regulating\u2014that is, placing restrictions on\u2014the use and exchange of private property as the Public Finance Act brings to public spending or the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act brings to monetary policy, with the Ministry for Regulation playing a role akin to that of the Treasury. We have a Public Finance Act to protect the taxpayer, and I guess you could say that this bill is to protect the citizen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe need for this bill should be clear from the way New Zealanders are expected to comply with regulations when going about their work and everyday life. Those regulations should be clear if we are going to be able to produce more in the time that we each have on earth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThis bill will codify the principles of good regulatory practice for existing and future regulations, with some exclusions. The principles are focused on the effect of legislation on existing interests and liberties; the rule of law; liberties; the taking of property, taxes, fees, and levies; and the role of courts and good lawmaking processes, including consultation, problem definition, and cost-benefit analysis. In essence, there are key questions lawmakers will need to have answers to when progressing regulation\u2014what problem are we trying to solve, what are the costs and benefits and who pays those costs and gets those benefits, what restrictions are being placed on the use and exchange of private property\u2014and when regulation does not meet those standards, it\u2019s reasonable for the public to expect lawmakers to be transparent about that fact. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EFor the bill to have an impact on the overall quality of regulation, it won\u2019t be enough for agencies to simply say that they have considered the principles. If that was the case, regulatory impact statements, the Legislation Design and Advisory Committee, and select committees would have solved the problem by now. This bill is necessary because it will require agencies to publicly confirm that the legislation and its processes for developing it have been reviewed for consistency with the principles and to summarise any inconsistencies with the principles, and the results of this assessment will need to be published in a consistency accountability statement that is required by the law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWhere an inconsistency is identified, the bill requires a statement from the responsible Minister to explain why they believe that their purpose justifies breaching the normal rules. Now, I want to be clear that this will not prevent lawmakers from making or retaining legislation inconsistent with the principles. Parliament will remain sovereign and it can pass whatever laws it chooses\u2014we\u2019re not changing that\u2014nor will it prevent secondary legislation being made if it\u2019s inconsistent with the principles. That can continue. There\u2019s no statutory requirement for inconsistencies to be changed. The law doesn\u2019t grant any specific rights to anybody. The discretion will remain with the responsible elected Minister, and there may well be justifications where the public accepts that there can be good policy reasons for inconsistencies. But\u2014but\u2014what it will do is raise the amount of scrutiny and the political cost of being that person making bad laws that are inconsistent with the principles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe default setting of Governments for too long has been to regulate first and ask questions later, and this bill is designed to reset that culture of lawmaking. It insists on questions being asked and answered before rules are imposed about the impact, about the cost, and about the necessity, because good intentions aren\u2019t good enough for this country of ours. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIf members of the public believe legislation is inconsistent with the principles, they\u2019ll have the ability to raise those concerns with the Regulatory Standards Board. The board will be made up of individuals who have the appropriate knowledge, skills, and experience. The board will be appointed by the Minister for Regulation, and that board will be able to independently consider the consistency of proposed and existing legislation in response to stakeholder concerns at the request of the Minister for Regulation, or on its own accord. The board will be able to make non-binding recommendations to the Minister responsible for the legislation or, in the case of a bill, to the relevant select committee. All of this will improve the accountability and transparency of our democracy when laws are being made that affect people\u2019s rights, and the reasons for any inconsistency in relevant documents will be made publicly available. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EFinally, the bill will also increase regulatory quality by supporting the Ministry for Regulation in its oversight role by allowing it to request information in aid of a system of regulatory sector reviews, and also to report on the overall regulatory management system, so that we make it a norm to stand up for people\u2019s rights to go about their business and get things done without being needlessly tied up in red tape. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EAt the heart of this law is a desire for New Zealand to get its mojo back by changing the incentives for politicians so that we don\u2019t have the kind of red tape and regulation that is holding us back in three different ways. Number one, it adds too much cost to the things that people would like to do. Too often, we have builders saying, \u201CIt takes me twice as long to get permission to build the thing as actually build it.\u201D We get educators who say, \u201CAll I wanted to do was unleash the creativity and potential of young minds, and all I actually do is fill out papers for the Ministry of Education.\u201D We get people in finance who say that they spend more time asking, \u201CWhat sort of cat food do you buy?\u201D than they do actually helping people achieve financial independence, which is what they went into business for. Too often, those costs make life more expensive than it needs to be, and that is part of the reason we have a cost of living crisis, which is really a productivity crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut then there are the things that don\u2019t happen at all, and the reason that they don\u2019t happen is because people have been burnt too many times by the expensive regulatory costs that they\u2019ve seen in other activities. I\u2019ve talked to people who have developed properties for 30 years, and they say, \u201CPeople come to me with propositions now, and I just say no, because it\u2019s too hard.\u201D It\u2019s the things that don\u2019t go ahead that have left, among other things, a generation of young New Zealanders feeling they have no pathway to owning their own part of a property-owning democracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EFinally, all of that accumulated red tape and burden is seriously affecting our culture, and I often tell the story of the climbing walls where I understand Sir Edmund Hillary first learnt to climb in the Epsom electorate. Today, they are walled off with a sign saying, \u201CDo not climb\u201D. Our regulatory culture is not just adding cost to things we do and stopping us from doing things that might have otherwise given people a more affordable, happier life. It\u2019s actually dulling our culture to the point that I\u2019m not sure that we could any longer produce a Hillary, because it is killing the can-do Kiwi attitude and the number eight wire dream that we like to see in ourselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EFor all of these reasons, I commend this bill to the House, and I hope it will be a great piece of New Zealand\u2019s infrastructure so we can all live better lives. Thank you, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9e649bb86b84307a942d3593a3a530f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9e649bb86b84307a942d3593a3a530f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I call the Hon Dr Duncan Webb. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u0022781a8141fa3a446d9d58a670dc98d5a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022781a8141fa3a446d9d58a670dc98d5a5\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Matarau\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Speaker. I raise this point of order under Standing Order 269. I\u2019m concerned that the departmental disclosure statement for this bill has failed the transparency test under Standing Order 269. They did not properly consider the ways that this bill undermines the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples\u2014aka UNDRIP. UNDRIP is an international agreement which Aotearoa is still a party to, and the bill we are discussing today\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00222b2518694ac4436f978be28897676d5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b2518694ac4436f978be28897676d5c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I interrupt the member. This is not a point of order. This is a debating point, and I suggest that you use this in your allocated time slot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226adae327c6724749bf37769febe11659\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: So it\u2019s not a point of order\u2014sorry, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fe757be7e3d42edbf4cf76eab2c1122\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not taking it as a point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210ac3714385e4b81a025e6a2ce6afb47\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: OK. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c142960c02f4fecbef384859f1c8834\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a debating point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cae316f956a435ea7e1373893cc8e48\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Ka pai. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0a841d854874dd38a91cd6afab815a4\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Could I speak to it, Madam Speaker? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df50c158bad34593ae3a5b88b10d3fcd\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: But it\u2019s not one\u2014you don\u2019t have to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222078da04cf764742a5c1aaf4f0193c7d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I think I\u2019ve just dealt with the matter. Apologies to the Hon Dr\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287f34eb5e3784108ab9dd2827f71ef87\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: God, you\u2019re an idiot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0575dc4b59a4744a3f1079e4dd99d34\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Duncan Webb. Would you like to start again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u002206e511711a654377bd3bbbfa508cc968\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206e511711a654377bd3bbbfa508cc968\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Speaker. I have just heard the Minister to my left\u2014David Seymour\u2014call a member of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori an idiot. I ask that you ask him to apologise and withdraw. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce8e40e76aa347e4aaaa1abe002dff49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce8e40e76aa347e4aaaa1abe002dff49\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t hear the comment. I was busy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a0b7d3c9f89483a8daa465c020415e4\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2d92ec0739e41e6be6065e5f1f7437b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014excuse me, I\u2019m speaking. I was speaking to a member on my left. If that is the case, then I invite the member to give us opinion about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u002212060cc8a18a492a807d6757c852d34a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212060cc8a18a492a807d6757c852d34a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Minister for Regulation):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I think it\u2019s rather rich for Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227479ebec30a7439186f262b0205561ad\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: No, what I\u2019m asking is: was that comment made? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e985c27f2a65422aa429a40793596f9c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, was it made? Not towards Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori; just to anyone in the area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00225769d341ab174b01a692e4edea87d6ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225769d341ab174b01a692e4edea87d6ed\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a bit frivolous. Look, let\u2019s settle it down. I\u2019ve already called the Hon Dr Duncan Webb a couple of times\u2014so, apologies to Mr Webb. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022926fc9a302934b73abdeb223c49e2ed4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022926fc9a302934b73abdeb223c49e2ed4\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Musterer\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Speaker. Sorry, Madam Speaker. I ask that you actually treat this seriously. The words that I heard myself were \u201CYou are an idiot.\u201D It cannot\u2014sorry\u2014be a generalised statement when the words being used include a \u201Cyou\u201D towards a very specific individual. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00221a6ae59a0db44568af8b450a6b3044c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a6ae59a0db44568af8b450a6b3044c1\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: And I made it very clear that I did not hear the comment. I have asked the member what he actually said. He has given us his feedback. In this House, we have to take members at their word, and so\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be443e7d7d2a47baa26d03086367b219\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Madam Speaker, if I may\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb2fc8cf59bd405fbd1ea289bb05b105\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m speaking. So as far as I\u2019m concerned, that is the end of that. Fourth time lucky, Mr Webb. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00228886c8fb39bb4bfb963740d8fb8462d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228886c8fb39bb4bfb963740d8fb8462d4\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, and lucky\u2014well, it\u2019s not really lucky because this bill is an exercise in vanity. It\u2019s wasteful and it\u2019s unnecessary. The irony of this Government bringing a bill about good lawmaking principles and process when only last week they were rushing through\u2014covertly\u2014pay equity legislation which stripped hundreds of thousands of women of rights, of claims that were in process does not escape me. It\u2019s absolutely shameful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWhat does this bill say? What are the values that underpin this bill? What are the values that David Seymour wants to bake into our constitution as if it was the Public Finance Act? Property, individual rights, freedoms, equality, limited levies and taxation, costs and benefits. Just one thing: there is no cost-benefit analysis of this bill. The stupidity of a bill pitching for costs and benefits when it can\u2019t prove its own cost or benefit is just outrageous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s what the bill says. What doesn\u2019t it say? What\u2019s the bill silent on? What about our fundamental constitutional principles and values? Does it mention the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act? No. Does it mention the Treaty of Waitangi? No. It\u2019s entirely silent on whether a law with a good lawmaking process is consistent with the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi. Does it mention privacy? No. Does it mention discrimination against minorities? No. Does it mention international obligations? No. It is a cherry-picked right-wing neoliberal agenda that we have in front of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThen what do we have? David Seymour gets to pick a handful of his mates to be on the Regulatory Standards Board\u2014a board that will consume $18 million a year for nothing; a little personal coterie of appointed clipboard-holding bureaucrats. To do what? To do nothing that isn\u2019t already being done. We already have the Legislation Design and Advisory Committee, a committee which has a huge amount of detail as to what good lawmaking is. It provides much more balanced guidance than a few little principles of David Seymour\u2019s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBasically, what does the Legislation Design and Advisory Committee do? What does it say about appointing a board? Well, it says this about appointing a board: \u201CA new public body should be created only if no existing body possesses the appropriate governance arrangements or is capable of properly performing necessary functions.\u201D Do we need a statutory board to do this? That\u2019s basically what it says. Don\u2019t go making boards when you don\u2019t need them. So once again, we\u2019ve got a good principle there from the Legislation Design and Advisory Committee, but David Seymour says, \u201CNo, no, I want my own personal board. My board that\u2019s actually, also, not even independent.\u201D The legislation as it stands says that the board is accountable to David Seymour, appointed by the Minister for Regulation, and accountable to the Minister. It\u2019s David Seymour\u2019s little pet organisation. It is wasteful, it\u2019s duplicative, it\u2019s bureaucratic, it\u2019s tainted with neoliberal ideology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut here\u2019s another thing. In clause 24 of the bill, it says this: \u201CThis Act does not confer a legal right or impose a legal obligation on any person that is enforceable in a court of law.\u201D Do you know what that actually means? That means we\u2019re spending all our time passing a law which isn\u2019t a law. It doesn\u2019t create any legal obligations. It is an utter waste of time. All it is an exercise in flag waving, and it\u2019s a neoliberal little flag that\u2019s being waved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut probably the most offensive thing about this bill is not that it seeks to promote some of those neoliberal ideologies, but it\u2019s the fact that it is yet again an attack on M\u0101ori. Once again, we have a founding constitutional document, Te Tiriti o Waitangi, which sets out the partnership between M\u0101ori and the Crown. In this place, this lawmaking function is an exercise of the Crown\u2019s powers. The idea that in doing it we shouldn\u2019t turn and look and say, \u201CDoes this meet our obligations under the Treaty?\u201D is absolutely shameful. As the Waitangi Tribunal has said, this should not proceed. A bill of this nature in this form should not proceed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EOf course, once again, it\u2019s bad lawmaking. The legislation says consult with affected parties appropriately. Was there targeted consultation with M\u0101ori, with iwi, with urban authorities? No, there was not. What\u2019s worse, the pre-introduction consultation that occurred, how did they read the submissions? With a bot\u2014with a bot. I\u2019m not talking about David Seymour; I\u2019m talking about a genuine AI programme. They didn\u2019t even read the 23,000 submissions. Why? Because they\u2019re not interested. They\u2019re not actually interested in the fact that over 90 percent of those people said, \u201CThis is a very bad idea, bad in so very many ways.\u201D So they swept them aside and David Seymour had the temerity to say, \u201CThere were no really good ideas in there.\u201D You know, he didn\u2019t even read them. No one in the Ministry for Regulation read them. They ran them through a computer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThat is particularly shameful because he comes forward as if he\u2019s some kind of defender of democracy. Yet when people actually want to participate in the democratic process, he\u2019s not interested because if they don\u2019t repeat his ideas, if they don\u2019t reflect his values, then they\u2019re left-wing crazies. Well, you know what? This is a bill which would increase the inequity in our society. It entrenches property rights as essentially the centrepiece of that Government. If you do that, you\u2019re going to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENowhere in there did I see anything about wellbeing, about social cohesion, about what the effects on our society would be, about equitable outcomes for everyone, about addressing the inequalities which exist in our society. Those are the principles that I bring to this House when I think about what good lawmaking is\u2014not simply protecting property rights, not compensating people at every turn. Essentially, those rules\u2014the idea that you can\u2019t impair a property right\u2014would have stopped us fencing swimming pools. You got to compensate them because that\u2019s an impairment. You couldn\u2019t require landlords to have healthy homes because it\u2019s an impairment on a property right. This kind of, \u201COh, don\u2019t limit the free exchange of property.\u201D is absolute bunkum. It is simply entrenching inequality that exists in our community already.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe idea that this is going to cost $18 million a year to administer when we already have the Attorney-General doing Attorney-General\u2019s reports through the Crown Law Office, the Legislation Design and Advisory Committee\u2014he\u2019s already got his own pet ministry, which is supposed to be doing this work through regulatory impact statements and helping with departmental disclosure statements as well. There is a raft of effective tools out there already, but he doesn\u2019t want to spend his time making sure that those are done. Of course, the irony is this: there are all those tools out there, but he doesn\u2019t use them himself; his own legislation doesn\u2019t use them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ELook at the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill and look at the poor regulatory impact statement there. Look at the poor process that was embarked on there. He can\u2019t meet his own standards of good regulatory quality, so it is ridiculous. He says one thing and he does another. The bill is a waste of time, it\u2019s duplicative, and it\u2019s vain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u00226925e239d6984f35af4fceede788d283\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226925e239d6984f35af4fceede788d283\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E By his own admission, the Minister in charge of this bill, David Seymour, puts forward that this is a culture reset. What I have to say here today is this bill is not who we are as a country. When it comes to Te Tiriti, well, we saw the multitudes turn out here and around the country time and time again to say, \u201CToit\u016B Te Tiriti.\u201D When it comes to protecting Papat\u016B\u0101nuku, our people across all corners of this beautiful country cherish her. When it comes to caring for each other, our people show up for each other when we see others doing it tough. It is these values of manaaki and justice and creating an Aotearoa that our mokopuna deserve that hold us together now and point to where else we need to go. We believe in public good. So the Green Party is strongly opposed to this Regulatory Standards Bill because it flies in the face of everything that is good and right on this whenua we call home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ENow, this bill is one of the most dangerous pieces of legislation that this House has seen. It seeks to destroy the very foundation of who we are. It seeks to remove Te Tiriti o Waitangi from lawmaking. This bill would penalise Governments by way of Government payouts if corporations\u2019 property is impacted by any rules, including those designed to safeguard nature and people. It would put private property above protecting the environment or public safety or indigenous rights. And it is the ideological push of a minor party with a leader who we\u2019ve just seen this morning is quite triggered by brown women in this House, with a PM unable to show true leadership against such a threat. Once again, we have a Prime Minister unable to uphold the fabric of our country. Once again, we have a Prime Minister neglecting his duty of care for the safety and wellbeing of the people and our living systems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThis guise behind this bill, the pretend rationale, is to improve lawmaking, which is, like this Government\u2019s Budget, BS. This country already has a robust check in place for lawmaking. It has existed for decades and is considered, actually, one of the best checks in the world when it comes to non-partisan lawmaking that aligns with our founding values. It is dangerous for this Government to be overriding the non-partisan nature and the already well-established norms of good lawmaking through what is called the Legislation Design and Advisory Committee\u2014LDAC. We have talked in this House already. We\u2019ve got something. It has been working for a long time. We do not need this bill. It is not solving a problem. It is pushing an ideological culture reset, one that is not us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ENow, one could ask: how do we know what our country values when it comes to lawmaking? Well, history has seen this bill\u2019s predecessors defeated three times already over the past couple of decades\u2014defeated, because it was always clear to the masses that this bill rips apart who we are. It has failed every time so far because the legal consequences of this are nasty. This bill would put our country into a stranglehold\u2014and I use the term purposefully, because this is legislative, constitutional, and political violence in favour of benefiting corporations and the uber-wealthy few.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019m trying to make clear here is that this bill has failed three times already because no one was careless enough to let it through. Elected representatives, time after time after time, were smart enough to stop it. To our Prime Minister, let me be clear: is this really the mould, the legacy, that our Prime Minister wants to leave? Finally, someone careless enough to let this bill through, a PM, who sought power at the cost of our nation\u2019s constitutional heart. Wow. It is not too late for the PM to save his reputation from this. This scenario has the vibes and visions of countless leaders who were able to protect this Parliament from this sort of legislation until this current Prime Minister. There is still time. There is still time for him to stand against the evil of this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI am really proud, instead, that the Greens continue to offer the direction for where our country needs to be pointing, for upholding the very things that we value the most, that our people all across the country are very clear on. We care for each other; we care for mokopuna. We can have a different system that stops upholding the rights of the few. I\u2019m proud of the Green Party for what we offer and for voting against the Regulatory Standards Bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc7395ea14fe4d989a175b2174ec9766\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc7395ea14fe4d989a175b2174ec9766\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Very happy to support this first reading of the Regulatory Standards Bill and for it going off to the Finance and Expenditure Committee for submissions and for the scrutinisation of submissions. I just want to correct one thing, and the perception over here is it\u2019s something that David Seymour\u2019s come up with overnight and on the back of an envelope. But, as one of his previous press releases acknowledged, the long, long work put together goes right back to the Association of Consumers and Taxpayers. It goes right back to Dr Bryce Wilkinson\u2019s book, which laid the groundwork constraining Government regulation. It goes right back to the Regulatory Responsibility Taskforce that refined this very bill back in 2009. It\u2019s got a very long and considered history, and so I congratulate the Minister for Regulation. We look forward to the submissions, and I commend the first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022 data-id=\u0022150f644fb2c34cb18c0687721627700e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022150f644fb2c34cb18c0687721627700e\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak also in support of the Regulatory Standards Bill at the first reading. As has been said, this is part of a process of reviewing regulation as it impacts\u2014and we all know there are regulations that impact every aspect of our lives, every aspect of business. This is something that is an important process that has been a long time in the making and development, and we look forward to the process of the select committee and scrutinising the work that will be undertaken on this bill. Therefore, New Zealand First support the Regulatory Standards Bill. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u0022133e4d8a4adc43ee8a0fd2e359cea044\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022133e4d8a4adc43ee8a0fd2e359cea044\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. You would be not a fool to actually listen to the Minister for Regulation speak to this bill and think he was speaking to something else, because not once did he mention \u201CTreaty\u201D. And let me be really clear to our wh\u0101nau out there: that was on purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EWhat we could be doing is spending my whole five minutes speaking to this side here; actually, I\u2019m not going to. I\u2019m going to remind ourselves what we\u2019re going through. The Treaty principles bill tried to rewrite the Treaty principles. This bill is actually trying to replace them, but worse. Over here\u2014I\u2019m trying to learn not to point\u2014we have a National-led Government that is going to support it. Luxon and National are happy to vote against the Treaty principles bill, but wait, wh\u0101nau, they are in staunch support of this one. Why?\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0f6656d53614c5d8e5506d608006df9\u0022\u003EHon Casey Costello\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Madam Speaker, I\u2019ll just raise the point that has been raised several times on the opposite side of the House: referring to a member of this House by their surname only is disrespectful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbed960f463c4e688744c8423cdb9432\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. Further, the member who recently resumed her seat also said that my earlier comments were deliberately intended to be targeted at Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori. I\u2019ve told the House that they weren\u2019t, and she\u2019s got an obligation to take me at my word. Now, to accuse the Minister of misleading the House is disorderly, and she should withdraw and apologise, unless of course\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdda0892c7c54c85b6c1742e4233c05e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. No, that\u2019s enough\u2014that\u2019s enough. That\u2019s not relevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204549529550b495dbc6b132e5769c62a\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER\u003C/span\u003E: Appreciate it, thank you. What we have here, wh\u0101nau m\u0101\u2014because that\u2019s who I\u2019m talking to. Just to explain what we\u2019re going through, we have National, again, Prime Minister Luxon, who has supported and will continue to support this bill. And the reason why: if you look through the whole 37 pages\u2014which I encourage that you don\u2019t\u2014the silence on the impact for Te Tiriti is on purpose. The bill promotes equal treatment before the law, but it opens the door for Government to attack every M\u0101ori equity initiative. It weaponises future Governments to challenge Treaty-focused laws. It refers to individual rights over collective rights of tino rangatiratanga. It deliberately\u2014deliberately\u2014cuts through who we are as people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EAnd the reason why we need to be questioning the National Government\u2014because remember they polled their absolute worst during the Treaty principles bill\u2014is that we have, again, the denial, and I know they\u2019ve been pulling that Trojan horse, but I actually think it\u2019s sneakier. We\u2019ve got a party that is setting out to make sure that they use this as part of the deregulation agenda to increase the corporate exploitation of Aotearoa. It is really simple. There\u2019s nothing else to explain about this bill. What we have\u2014and sadly\u2014is a Prime Minister in a National-led Government who struggles to understand what Te Tiriti o Waitangi means, what the opportunities for Aotearoa\u2019s future means, and in fact has relegated economic desperation and economic development reliant on taking Te Tiriti o Waitangi out of the game. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EI think we need to also be saying to our people and remind them: wh\u0101nau ma, how many times do we have to show them what we\u2019re made of? Eight percent supported the Treaty principles bill\u20148\u00A0percent. There were 300,000-plus submitters. We actually broke the system. The computer systems that actually sit there and work around the select committees couldn\u2019t handle the influx of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EThe Treaty principles bill was just a warm-up. Don\u2019t get discouraged by what this is about. Remember the difference is we have a National Government, a National Party, a National-led Government, a Prime Minister that is supporting what ACT are saying, and we need to focus on that, wh\u0101nau m\u0101. When you get up there, and I know you\u2019re so great at submissions, and you get our k\u014Dhanga mobilised, our kura mobilised, our marae mobilised, our communities mobilised, our rangatahi mobilised, our kaum\u0101tua mobilised, our tangata Tiriti mobilised, remember that this is a Government that is fighting against unions who are protecting women. They don\u2019t have a problem with Te Tiriti. This is a Government that has taken off any type of tautoko for rangatahi\u2014they don\u2019t have a problem with Te Tiriti. This is a Government that is sitting there fighting non-M\u0101ori surfers trying to fight against seabed mining\u2014they don\u2019t have a problem with Te Tiriti. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EWhat we have is a Government that has a problem with every other New Zealander that wants to live in peace, that lives in dignity, and lives with pride, because we are a Tiriti-centric nation unlike every other colonised country. The poor Islands has spent 700 years getting out of that whole regime, our Welsh wh\u0101nau with their whole reo, our Scottish wh\u0101nau. We are lucky because, as the last of the nations colonised, we have Te Tiriti o Waitangi, and it is not something that we will give up easily.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003ESo wh\u0101nau m\u0101, you have a few months to mobilise and get ready to make sure that you understand what\u2019s at risk here, and eyeball\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022161beb75d3a4464da3971b38f6a1222a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The Speaker is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dec3c4e7a1d490ea6e84ae80d09f5fa\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry. Eyeball, through the Speaker, those National MPs in your backyard whose Government and whose leader is supporting this ridiculous, repugnant, revolting, anti-Tiriti, anti-M\u0101ori, anti-diversity Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022691773c7d9384bbb8443724f3689ba4c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022 data-id=\u002200f88a54864b41ac98110ffc3fbc47c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200f88a54864b41ac98110ffc3fbc47c2\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019ll be great to actually talk about the bill. Some critics have attacked this as being an ideological scheme to shrink the Government. On this side of the House, we actually don\u2019t think that\u2019s a bad idea. We believe in less Government. Let\u2019s take this to the select committee and see what we can do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u002291afd5a54f894dc5b2daa97078690773\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291afd5a54f894dc5b2daa97078690773\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Well, there you go. That\u2019s another example of how seriously National treats this Government\u2014clearly intimidated by the leader of the ACT Party who runs the Government, as we all know. I did say some time ago that the leader of the ACT Party was the most dangerous politician in this country, and this bill is another example of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232401a0f75ff4b64b81feb20a37a189d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I get the member to refer to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7ca0c26d9ac4fc0819abff61b458488\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely. Thank you for that reminder, Madam Speaker. But as the Minister for Regulation knows, this is all about the ACT philosophy. So I absolutely denounce this vile piece of legislation, support all the k\u014Drero from the M\u0101ori Party and the Green Party and, of course, our main man on it, Duncan Webb\u2014excellent. Absolutely\u2014absolutely\u2014on the mark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe Regulatory Standards Bill represents a dangerous and threatening assault on the values of this country, opening up legislation, as everyone has pointed out, to corporate influence. Just in simple terms, those are David Seymour\u2019s mates. It\u2019s a fringe libertarian perspective that gives private ownership\u2014as he well knows\u2014a level of distorted supremacy to trump M\u0101ori values, M\u0101ori concerns, environmental concerns, and community concerns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really sad that the Minister goes down this track. He likes to refer to his M\u0101ori background, but no one in his M\u0101ori background wants to refer to him. They\u2019re not interested in him at all but he loves to quote his M\u0101ori background as it suits him, even though they want to throw him out of the tribe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe Waitangi Tribunal ruling that this extreme legislation should be immediately halted was born from the concern that it was so far-reaching in its power and so over the top in its agenda that there was every way that it was going to breach the Treaty. There\u2019s been no meaningful interaction with M\u0101ori and no meaningful debate with the wider public. I don\u2019t know why the Minister is scared to consult with M\u0101ori. Maybe he\u2019s scared of the response; I would imagine that\u2019s the case. No meaningful engagement with NGOs or academic critics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe Regulatory Standards Bill is another bad-faith argument from Mr Seymour, just like the Treaty principles referendum bill was. This is \u201CTreaty principles 2\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231ec5ae7893a49728ab84a1abeff687f\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I really enjoy Mr Jackson\u2019s speeches, but to say that another member is motivated by fear or lacks courage or that they are arguing in bad faith\u2014I believe both are out of order and not the kind of references that members should make in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f66d07cd2698444d8e995a2d799860a9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry, we were just in a changeover for the Chair at the time, so I didn\u2019t entirely get all of that. But, Mr Jackson, you should refrain from referring to any member of the House in the terms that have been described by Mr Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b3a47ae01484bb3835781be8fc3a03c\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, thank you for that reminder, Mr Speaker. I know that Mr Seymour\u2019s very sensitive so I will refrain from that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa61aa0f1c90465da975cfce3a6500b9\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no, I\u2019m sorry, he\u2019s trifling with you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292f8a60714d8403ebcfcb27020d354c8\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I will refrain from that, him being so sensitive about things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd954fdb3d1b47498977d815db556dcb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, just stop there. That\u2019s sort of like adding kind of a layer of insult, isn\u2019t it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2e119ea15554b02894a114309aa65d4\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: All right, I\u2019ll just continue with my speech then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245817099348f47dfba84ac44460302b9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You know I\u2019m a very tolerant man when it comes to you, Mr Jackson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ef24d0659954cfe99ea18dc5b33739d\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes\u2014yes. OK, thank you, Mr Speaker. What I was saying is this is \u201CTreaty principles 2\u201D\u2014this is what our people are saying. This is what the brilliant Jane Kelsey said: there\u2019s no real debate, there\u2019s no good-faith engagement, just another trick for ACT to slip past the public before the public know what is happening. The tribunal\u2019s urgent hearing on the impacts of the Regulatory Standards Bill on Treaty rights is so damning that the tribunal has ordered it must be stopped immediately as, as Mr Seymour knows, its creation would challenge the Treaty in a dreadful way. The tribunal found that the Crown has breached the Treaty principles of partnership and active protection by failing to meaningfully consult with M\u0101ori before Cabinet made decisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe Regulatory Standards Bill is really a David Seymour right-wing fantasy, as we all know. It will allow corporations to put their property rights ahead of our human rights; it would allow polluters to pollute no matter the environmental costs; it would allow the wealthy to dictate to the community; and it would allow corporate interests into the very heart of our democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI just want to know why Mr Seymour hates working together with M\u0101oridom in our own country, yet he falls over himself to allow corporations and their property rights inside Parliament. What the general public don\u2019t know is that it\u2019s going to cost $20\u00A0million. This is not a nation for corporate elites to dictate their property rights to us, the Parliament of the people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First should be ashamed of supporting this bill. I thought Winston Peters would oppose it\u2014they support good law, but the Regulatory Standards Bill is another bad-faith law promoted for the few, not for the many, and New Zealanders will not accept this managing of our democratic values so private property rights are promoted over our common good. We are citizens, not clients.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b839fc8b79a5491783e52f2e776a2847\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b839fc8b79a5491783e52f2e776a2847\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National):\u003C/span\u003E Many New Zealanders have called for a regulatory responsibility law to help restrain the growth of unnecessary and poor-quality regulations, so let\u2019s take it to the Finance and Expenditure Committee. Let\u2019s hear from the public. Let us scrutinise this bill. I support the first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022e46c450fd7884b77a8bb19982f37305d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e46c450fd7884b77a8bb19982f37305d\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E We have heard from the public on this bill. There was a consultation process at the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment\u2014a huge number of submissions received, and 0.33 percent support of this bill. We have heard already from the public on this bill; there is virtually no support for it. Despite that overwhelming rejection, that Minister for Regulation has had the gall to bring it to this House and to demand that this House spends their time on it, when a mere 0.33 percent of submissions supported it. What an exercise in vanity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENot only is it an exercise in vanity, ignoring what the public have already overwhelmingly said about this bill; the analysis says that it is simply not needed. Drafts of the bill, of the Cabinet paper, were circulated to other Government agencies, and let me read from the regulatory impact statement about what those other agencies said about the bill. It says: \u201CThe main themes from the departmental feedback included some broad support for the objectives of the proposal, but a general preference for these to be achieved in other ways, such as strengthening regulatory impact analysis requirements or Parliamentary mechanisms.\u201D They said that this bill would just duplicate existing mechanisms. It was not going to add anything to what we do in this House, in this Government, around regulatory equality\u2014yet another sign that this is just a vanity exercise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s look, then, at the content of the bill. Why are people rejecting it? Well, I tautoko what my colleagues have said around the Treaty of Waitangi and the extent to which M\u0101ori have simply been ignored in the drafting of this bill. It\u2019s astonishing. This bill wants to set up a system so that there can be a voice to Parliament keeping a check on the regulations and on the reviews. We have that voice already; it\u2019s called the Waitangi Tribunal. That\u2019s what they do for us. And yet these people reject the Waitangi Tribunal, but they are a voice to Parliament checking us and keeping us in check in terms of how we deal with our country. We have that coming through in our regulatory impact statements and the Legislative Design and Advisory Committee. We have these voices already. There\u2019s that kind of content in it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EBut then there\u2019s the underlying philosophy here. This is a bill which sees people only as individuals\u2014just as individuals. There seems to be no notion of society, and it\u2019s as individuals that we hold property and as individuals that we interact with the Government. But let me give an example. We have magnificent kahikatea trees on our property at home. They are wonderful trees. Kahikatea grow in swamps, and they have great, spreading roots that hold the tree in the ground. The great, spreading roots of our kahikatea trees, which we treasure; they are beautiful on our property, but they hold the hillside together for our neighbours as well. If we took those kahikatea trees out, the impact would not be just on us\u2014and not just obviously on our flora and fauna, on the whole ecology around our home\u2014but it would be on our neighbours, too. We are not mere individuals. We exist in a society. We have a complex web of relationships, and this bill ignores that complex web of relationships and treats us just as individuals. Think of the kahikatea tree and what it brings to us as a neighbourhood, as a community. That is the sort of analysis we need to have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EOne final point. This bill talks about not unduly diminishing a person\u2019s liberty. But what kind of liberty? Freedom from, or freedom to? It\u2019s really important. Liberty is enabled by the things we do for each other\u2014like a health system, like an education system. It is enabled by a welfare system which enables people to live with free choices. And it is a bit rich of that Government to talk about liberty when they have people in it who want to box people into narrow, little definitions of male and female, of women and men, when they will not allow people to be themselves, when they want to get M\u0101ori out of our Parliament, where they will not recognise the importance of M\u0101ori. This is a thin, attenuated version of society, and we should utterly reject it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4904788c66a4f7faa9051bb85810a0a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4904788c66a4f7faa9051bb85810a0a\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E Most people would agree that regulation is important but that regulation often does more harm than good. One more important person, moral philosopher, quoted in the 1700s, Adam Smith: \u201CThe proposal of any new law or regulation of commerce ought always to be listened to with great precaution and ought never to be adopted until having been long and carefully examined.\u201D It is with that scepticism that we support this bill in the House, and my message to the public is clear: submit to the Finance and Expenditure Committee; I look forward to hearing your submissions. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022faf24832e8a1465a9ffcd6b401fdc424\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Regulatory Standards Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000551\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2710e266f564022bc47637581688a8c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2710e266f564022bc47637581688a8c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Minister for Regulation):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Regulatory Standards Bill be considered by the Finance and Expenditure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Finance and Expenditure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d8abe31a4cc84ef1a7ae06c57af4173d\u0022\u003EBuilding and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022052a173296a746aeb9429da5a091b5c4\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u002290f19b0cf22942a995218c3a113a7245\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290f19b0cf22942a995218c3a113a7245\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Building and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aecfc20ff6744a06bf51f2fa5f96bc17\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3acc41232c14e8bbbd51a370a856e1f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Building and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Transport and Infrastructure Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 23 September 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI move that this bill be read a first time because, quite simply, it takes too long, in this country, to build anything. I\u2019m proud to introduce the bill, therefore, on behalf of the coalition Government, because it meets a commitment in the National - New Zealand First coalition agreement to permit granny flats to be built without a building consent and also a resource consent, besides. But the subject of this discussion and debate is on the Building and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EBefore I talk to that bill and what it will achieve, I\u2019d like to thank my New Zealand First colleagues for their consistent advocacy on this particular policy priority, as well as, of course, our colleagues and friends of the ACT Party for their equally consistent support of disproportionate red-tape removal in the interests of a more productive building sector\u2014and society and economy more generally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIt currently takes too long, as I\u2019ve said, and is too expensive. By way of illustration, it is now 40\u00A0percent more expensive to build in this country than it had been in 2019, and it is 50 percent more costly to build a stand-alone house in this country than in Australia. Kiwis simply want to build a simple stand-alone dwelling on their properties without a building consent, under the Building Act, because, while providing independent oversight and assurance as to building quality, the consent process currently adds thousands of dollars to the cost of a build. We don\u2019t consider these costs to be proportionate, certainly relative to the benefits. Instead, we consider that lower-risk building work is better managed through stronger occupational licensing regimes and liability settings\u2014more on those another day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ERemoving regulatory barriers and taking a common-sense approach to the consenting system is a critical part of increasing housing supply for Kiwis. Making it faster and, again, more affordable for so-called \u201Cgranny flats\u201D to be built will provide families with more housing options, particularly for grandparents\u2014as the informal name would suggest\u2014but also people with disabilities, young adults, and workers in the rural sector, among others. We know that increasing housing availability also directly translates to lower living costs for our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EWe received significant feedback on and support for these proposals through public consultation. To the nearly 2,000 New Zealanders who submitted on the bill last year: we have listened to your feedback. The changes proposed today deliver the outcomes you want, while striking the right balance between enabling housing growth and managing risks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe terms of the proposal in this legislation: well, first, it will allow homeowners to build small stand-alone dwellings, up to 70 square metres, without a building consent, so long as they meet three core conditions. The first is that the building have a simple design, as will be defined, and meet the Building Code. I emphasise that the current requirements of the Building Code are not being undermined, are not being lowered; we are simply amending the way in which those can be verified as having been met. Second, building work is carried out, or supervised, by licensed building professionals. Third and final, homeowners must notify their local council before they commence building and once it\u2019s completed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ETo ensure that consent-exempt granny flats are indeed simple, lower-risk buildings, the bill provides that they must be new, stand-alone, single-storey dwellings of 70 square metres or less. To manage the risks associated with more complex building work, the bill also provides that granny flats must be built in accordance with a set of simple design specifications\u2014for example, the dwelling must be constructed with lightweight materials for the roof and framing, and only contain simple plumbing and drainage systems. To allow for future amendments to these simple design specifications, the bill introduces a power to add, remove, or amend simple design requirements by Order in Council. This will ensure that any technological advances in building methodologies can be enabled for consent-exempt granny flats and that any unintended consequences can be addressed in a timely manner. We want that flexibility, as well as obviously providing strong guidelines at the outset.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also add that it\u2019s important that tradespeople, who can build without a building consent, have proven that they are skilled and competent and can be held to account when things go wrong. They must be responsible in the sense of the way that they conduct their work, but also able to respond in the event of failure. As such, the bill provides that all work associated with a consent-exempt granny flat must be carried out by authorised professionals. To ensure that future owners, insurers, and other interested parties can have confidence in the quality of the building work, the bill requires authorised professionals to provide records of work to homeowners for all work associated with a consent-exempt granny flat. Owners will be required to provide these to their local council, and this will provide a lasting record of what work was completed, who completed it, and when. This clear and lasting record will provide confidence to insurers and lenders of what has been built, support any resale of the property, and support the remediation of any defects that may arise in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EOn a related note, I will point out that in order to ensure that homes are built in locations that are suitable for construction, along with the public utilities needed to support them, the bill provides that owners must notify the relevant council of their intention to build a granny flat by applying for a project information memorandum, or PIM\u2014I\u2019ll call it PIM from here on in, please. This may also support councils to plan for and manage assets, including water and transportation services. The PIM is already something provided for in the Building Act, and many people who submitted on the proposed changes last year supported including the PIM, in some form, if the building-consent exemption was to progress. Clearly, it is progressing; we\u2019ve included it accordingly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ETo support owners in making fully informed decisions regarding their building work, the bill also requires councils to issue supplementary advice when issuing a PIM on whether, first, the proposed work is likely, unlikely, or unclear as to whether it will meet the core conditions of the exemption\u2014for example, the maximum floor area being limited to 70 square metres and the single-storey requirement. Second, whether the construction of the dwelling is proposed to occur on land that is subject to a natural hazard. We do need that awareness. Third, whether there are any applicable council bylaws that may impact the design, construction, or location of the proposed work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI do want to point out and emphasise that it is important to note that this is advice only. In the accompanying PIM, and in those other criteria of advice that need to be provided, where relevant, homeowners will still have the freedom to determine how they respond to the advice, and it will be up to owners to utilise this information to build a compliant granny flat. I must also highlight that the effect of the bill is to apply a more common-sense approach to the consenting system. This is the broad context in which we are making these changes. We are removing regulatory barriers where they aren\u2019t necessary, while ensuring that Kiwis can remain confident that their homes will be safe, durable, and healthy. Accordingly\u2014and with gratitude, again, for the support already provided in respect of this policy, to our coalition partners and further afield\u2014I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00228539bf38eb114262a1f9b3b38f724f3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228539bf38eb114262a1f9b3b38f724f3f\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Labour supports removing barriers to building more houses. We want more houses built. We want more people in warm, dry homes. So this is something we\u2019re willing to support at first reading and through to select committee. I was distracted by the questions from the ACT Party because of course the Labour Party supports these measures to remove barriers, and we have a real interest in building more houses, unlike members of this Government who have continuously bulldozed through reforms when sensible reforms to the Resource Management Act would have seen more houses being built right now. There are plenty of things this Government could be doing to see more houses constructed, but instead they have picked a path where more houses have been held up in the building. They have cut a billion dollars from emergency housing\u2014and on the false pretence that demand is reducing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIf this bill, which is designed to create more houses because demand is rising, can possibly be useful, then you would assume that the Government also knows that there is demand for housing and that the demand for public housing is also growing. This is a bill which is about solving a problem of those people who need to be housed and reducing the cost in the housing market to make sure that more can be built and that there can also be more housing available for rent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo this speaks into that, and we believe in that, unlike ACT members who in this very Budget debate have put forward alternative views about what is happening in the housing market and all to justify the Government\u2019s cuts in the Budget as a whole.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESpeaking to this bill, it important for us to understand as a House the questions that we\u2019ll be raising, because there are a number for the select committee stage, particularly around how we think this will play out in our major cities where demand for housing is very strong in some particular areas, and how this will affect not only councils that are losing the ability to consent and stop this kind of work that they had before but also the professions that now are expected to absorb the liability and the responsibility for creating granny flats and smaller dwellings, as they will be sort of the final sign-off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI want the House to really understand that the same rules here will apply to builders and to plumbers and to gasfitters. It\u2019s an unusual thing in our building system. We\u2019re talking about creating small dwellings here where licensed professionals are expected to be the sign-off mechanism. But the sign-off mechanism for those things is quite different. When you\u2019re a licensed building practitioner, you go through a long period of education where you learn the ropes and you\u2019re able to practise on your own account for things like residential building. And it is really right that we trust these professionals to be able to sign off on that kind of work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EBut there\u2019s been quite a different system for plumbers and gasfitters because they operate in quite a different context. If you\u2019re a plumber, you\u2019re making a connection to a plumbing system underneath the ground where there will no longer be a check from a council to see, \u201CWell, if we have the right sorts of pipes under the ground for 50 houses on a block, but now with granny flats there are going to be another 50, and so there will be 100 there. What are we connecting into and is it appropriate for the infrastructure that is below the ground?\u201D The same kind of mechanisms that apply to the builders will also apply to the plumbers, but in a very different context. It\u2019s the same issue with gasfitters. Gasfitters have been regulated in quite a different way in our building system because when things go wrong with gas, it is very difficult to respond to the problems. These are very, very high-risk situations when things go wrong. But we will not have a layer of consenting which existed there to keep people safe and to avoid disaster.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve also got some outstanding questions around how things like stormwater management will be considered in situations of flooding in very dense developments. We have seen the issue of stormwater run-off being a real problem for people living in these homes. It creates real risk for people in these homes and the surrounding area, and we want to make sure that there is a mechanism by which we can plan for our communities, because it\u2019s not just about how this affects individual homeowners but it\u2019s how it affects their neighbours and how it affects their wider communities. We also want to know how this fits into the Government\u2019s programme and plan for housing. We cannot see how this will solve all of the problems, but we do support it because it will solve a few problems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, I will also indicate to you that I will seek to take a call on the motion to refer this to select committee\u2014it\u2019s a pretty novel interpretation of Standing Order 298/2 that indicates that four months is required for there to be no debate, and I will give you a chance to consider that rule before I take that call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00224be33b1490454cc78509c4247786d12c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224be33b1490454cc78509c4247786d12c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Very generous of you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00220bdf6268ded24e418e9f0e69e23a1957\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220bdf6268ded24e418e9f0e69e23a1957\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker; t\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. I totally understand the desire to make it easier to increase the housing supply, and we were very supportive of the medium-density residential standards and other changes that would make it easier and more affordable to allow increased dwellings within the existing urban area. However, this bill is quite different to that in that it\u2019s not about resource consent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe Minister for Building and Construction referred to the fact that a 70 square metre granny flat would be able to be built without a resource consent, and that part we agree with. What we have difficulty with is now taking out the building consent. Because if it is to have plumbing and electricity and everything else, there is really potential for things to go wrong and there needs to be some sort of oversight. I think especially given the issues with the leaky buildings and the history in our country of things not going well, we need some sort of oversight on building quality. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s interesting, I know that Cameron Luxton\u2014he\u2019ll probably speak after me\u2014is a builder. I don\u2019t think any of the people currently heckling from the Government benches are builders, but my brother is a builder. My brother is a builder and when I asked him what he thought of this, he said it was going to be a disaster. He works here in the Wellington region. He\u2019s very wedded to high-quality building and he personally thought this was going to be a disaster.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe sort of questions that he raised\u2014and he\u2019s not the only builder in my family\u2014is: who is accountable when things go wrong? Are the structures going to be insurable? Are licensed building practitioners or, you know, sparkies, plumbers\u2014are they going to have to carry additional insurance to cover the possibility of their work being wrong? And there\u2019s the issue of increased load. That\u2019s not about what about when things go wrong in the building itself; it\u2019s what is the overall impact of increasing the number of dwellings within a given area on things like the reticulated water systems that council is responsible for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI totally acknowledge that there are issues with the way building consents are administered and the differences between different councils. I\u2019ve talked to many builders here in Wellington who\u2019ve told me that one of the biggest difficulties is they\u2019re building in different municipalities, different district councils, and the building inspectors they get from different councils have really different approaches and have very different interpretations. I think that is an issue that we could deal with\u2014I think there\u2019s a whole lot we could do to improve the building consent process and to take liability away from councils.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EBecause what ends up happening is you\u2019ve got extremely experienced designers who\u2019ve mainly worked overseas who want to come in here and build highly energy-efficient, very top-of-the-line structures. They\u2019re way, way better than our Building Code, but because they aren\u2019t like the lowest common denominator acceptable solution in the Building Code, they find it harder to get a building consent. Like, that\u2019s crazy. We should make it easier to get a consent for something that\u2019s higher performing. But our whole system needs work. And just getting rid of a building consent requirement for granny flats isn\u2019t, I think\u2014and the Green Party doesn\u2019t think\u2014sufficient to address the issues with the Building Code, with the building consenting process, with productivity in the building sector, and the overall shortage of housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EAccording to the regulatory impact statement, this is only going to have a very tiny marginal impact on housing supply. I mean tiny. Actually, it\u2019s probably going to be just easier for people like me to put up a sleepout outside that my in-laws can stay in. That\u2019s great, and I know that I would get really high quality\u2014I want oversight, you know; I want oversight by people who I can trust. Because the truth is we do have cowboys in this sector. They\u2019re not the majority, but it does exist and I think that is the reason we have building consents: because people want some sort of assurance and quality control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EAre the councils properly resourced to do that? Are they doing it in the best way? Could we have a different approach? I\u2019m totally open to all of that and we are open to hearing arguments at select committee that reassure us around the questions that I raised and changing our vote at select committee. But in the first instance, it doesn\u2019t seem to me that getting rid of this building consent is the right way to solve the problem, and it\u2019s quite possible that the cost and the impact on our communities might outweigh the benefits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022 data-id=\u00220f9a12d4c9dc43a1a8976ea5db879ffe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f9a12d4c9dc43a1a8976ea5db879ffe\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m glad to hear that this bill is going to select committee, from the speeches that we\u2019ve heard today, but there are some legitimate concerns that have been raised, particularly by the previous speaker, the Hon Julie Anne Genter. New Zealand\u2019s had a traumatic experience in the past. Mr Speaker, as a fellow builder, you know that the leaky homes crisis was something that scarred New Zealand\u2019s view of housing deeply. But this bill is making it simple what designs are exempt for a small, stand-alone dwelling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EWhen I think of simple design, I think of large eaves, good soffits, decent, long-wearing roofing, no complicated joints, well-tested and trusted external cladding materials\u2014things that make a building trusted. And the thing that also goes on top of all of that is the licensed building practitioner, the sparky, the certified plumbers and drainlayers, the gasfitters\u2014everybody who\u2019s able to self-certify\u2014and also, through this bill and other measures of this bill, the licensed builders, the tradies, and everyone out there who\u2019s getting a chance to show they can be trusted. Because New Zealand needs to start trusting these folks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EGetting it off the councils, who have, through a very\u2014you know, you look at the incentives that are on councils, it\u2019s not surprising it\u2019s taking them so long to sign stuff off. We\u2019ve got to get some of those incentives aligned better so that New Zealanders can actually put themselves in places where they\u2019re warm and dry and stable. We\u2019re going to have granny flats, we\u2019re going to have places for intergenerational accommodation\u2014bringing families together, providing accommodation. Yes, fixing a small part of our housing shortage, but doing it in a way that is sound, which is sensible, which is just starting to open the door to solving our housing crisis. Small, stand-alone dwellings in good locations is what we need. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022 data-id=\u00228ea51d467f5a4a15940114a0a56234a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ea51d467f5a4a15940114a0a56234a1\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E We keep on saying we do have a housing crisis. This is just yet another initiative from this excellent Minister for Building and Construction, excellent Government, to help solve that housing crisis. This is actually a New Zealand First initiative, which is incorporated into the New Zealand First - National coalition agreement, and it\u2019s great to have these things being delivered. It\u2019s been well signalled for a long time. It\u2019s been through a consultation process. As the Minister said, 2,000 people submitted to that, and that\u2019s really, really excellent. This bill has been really, really well signalled, and I\u2019m looking forward to it going through the select committee process. There\u2019s clearly going to be some questions which are going to be asked, and we will all be asking those questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EThis is about building consents for small, simple-design, single-storey buildings. That\u2019s what it\u2019s for. The council building consents\u2014we\u2019ve heard about that. They give assurances, but they come at cost, and they also often come at significant delay, and that often requires people to down tools and that is a real problem in the system. These small homes will still need to meet Building Code standards. They\u2019ll be self-certified by professional people of good standing, who have done these jobs for a very, very long time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003ELook, I want to tell you one very, very short story, if I can. I visited a company which produces 120 small homes a year, at the moment\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bdabb11fd1541ccaea555345ed0bb71\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: Short story.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294aa1baf70d84f84bff978dddb566d7b\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014small homes\u2014yeah, it\u2019ll be longer if you keep interrupting. It\u2019s 120 small homes a year, one every three days\u2014they are all the same. They are all H1 treated. They\u2019re all really good quality. And guess what? Every single one of them has to get the local council to sign it off with a building consent. The council official comes along and says, \u201CMmm, yeah, looks the same as the previous one. Here you are. Here\u2019s a bill for $4,000.\u201D That adds 2 percent to the cost of each and every one of those homes. That is crazy\u2014that is crazy. And a lot of these homes are going to be that kind of home. That is about making these homes cheaper for the people who actually need those homes and I think that is a really, really great initiative. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u00223134028d0b4241b19c698c3aad0a9297\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223134028d0b4241b19c698c3aad0a9297\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou. I want to start by saying \u201CSmall mercies\u201D, in this regard. It\u2019s a sensible idea\u2014dare I even say this right now, given what we were listening to, just earlier\u2014but, I mean, I\u2019m smart enough and we\u2019re smart enough to recognise when it\u2019s a good idea, and it can be applied in a very good and trusting way. And, obviously, because my shed is just about done, I\u2019m relating to this conversation because I\u2019ve just put up the flashings in it, and there\u2019s caving and there\u2019s drainage and there\u2019s all of those things. I get that it is a very pertinent experience right now, and it\u2019s a good thing, so I wanted to start my contribution in this way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022030671a264d044c68137ea52545629ff\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: Will you support it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273e39fea9edf4aa9b26f26d5ef5b3f5b\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: Ha! Yeah, no, of course, I get it. Obviously, we support it, and we support it going to select committee [Members cheer and applaud] I know! Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EBut can I also say this. What I want to say is that with some of the recent things that have come out in the last 48 hours in terms of the Budget, I want to make this statement too, and that is: please do not get confused, with the support of this, about some of the other things that are coming out, such as the recent funding boost of $472 million that will be invested to manage the growing prison population and its associated costs. Please don\u2019t let that picture be another housing remedy for wh\u0101nau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThis bill does make it easier. It makes it easier because it\u2019s affordable, and that\u2019s a good thing. Whether it was deliberate or not, it considers the way in which M\u0101ori live, and intergenerational groupings. So that\u2019s a good thing and we\u2019re happy with that. We live in larger numbers in our wh\u0101nau, and T\u0101kuta Ferris made reference to that in terms of the way in which we\u2019re growing and our mokopuna are coming into this world in great numbers and at a great speed, which is fantastic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a good idea, and we support it. I just acknowledge the work that\u2019s been carried out, certainly by the Transport and Infrastructure Committee and all of those people in that space, but we support it and look forward to it going to select committee, and small mercies. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u00229b2d670b2680412e9f72aceb56c15700\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b2d670b2680412e9f72aceb56c15700\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E This is a great bill. It\u2019s going to help improve productivity and ease our housing crisis. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022d076c148f8744cad9c45a00a3c3890d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d076c148f8744cad9c45a00a3c3890d9\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Look, the person who\u2019s just resumed his seat is the deputy chair of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee. I thought he would\u2019ve had more to say in this particular space, so that is disappointing, but it\u2019s reflective of the position of the current Government. [Interruption] As\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b64edd7599a44eb6a91348646fb652bf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, listen, we\u2019re going to quieten down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221eed7a3ca25244dd83f8d71b7605b170\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014my colleague Arena Williams has said, we are happy to support this bill to select committee, albeit what seems to be a truncated select committee process; we\u2019ll have something to say about that. But this is a move to make it somewhat easier to effectively construct granny flats\u2014as they\u2019re commonly referred to\u2014or small stand-alone dwellings. So, on face value, it does look sensible, but a lot of the issues might arise in the detail, and so we look forward to scrutinising that further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s important that these constructions, as we understand, will still need to comply with the Building Code. So that is important and particularly goes to the heart of that need for\u2014I agree with the Hon Julie Anne Genter\u2014the assurance and the quality control aspects that would naturally flow from that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ETalking about \u201Cnaturally\u201D, one of the concerns that we do have is the way in which this would be rolled out in the sense of planning opportunities, because, naturally, when you have a sense of density at play, the nature of what, effectively, comes and goes from that existing footprint is somewhat questionable. We hear a lot about the development perhaps being a simple development. That\u2019s what it says in the documentation; it\u2019ll be interesting to see what that actually means in practice\u2014considerations, for example, around grey water or stormwater, where there is a density of development, and ensuring that the infrastructure that is provided by the local council, or local territorial authority, is sufficient to meet the need that would be generated as a result of that. That\u2019s the sort of detail that is important to us and that we will be delving into when it comes to select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe interesting thing with this legislation is the role that local councils will have, because it looks as though, even though there needs to be some communication with the council, albeit before construction is sought to be undertaken and then once it\u2019s been completed, the only other role really is for the council to be a basic receptacle of information. So we\u2019ll be interested to tease that out a little bit and understand what that is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWhen it\u2019s referred to as a granny flat, you know, the whole point of a granny flat is the intergenerational connection that Mariameno Kapa-Kingi has referred to\u2014very common in many wh\u0101nau or aiga community situations around Aotearoa New Zealand. But also, it\u2019s interesting that it\u2019s likely that, for some communities, that might be what this actually ends up being, but for others it might be an opportunity for them to address what is clearly a housing shortage that has been generated by the current Government. The Budget that we are talking about at the moment\u2014and this is a piece of legislation that is in the Budget urgency motion\u2014is around choice, and the Government has chosen to progress this under urgency. They are making or seeking to make it slightly easier to build on an existing property, and that may be because of the shortage of housing supply opportunities, the stripping away of funding when it comes to K\u0101inga Ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWhen I think about what that means for my own local community of Palmerston North, the only thing that this Government is building on K\u0101inga Ora land are bollards\u2014bollards on Church Street, bollards on Crewe Crescent, bollards on Bolton Place; those sorts of opportunities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis is a piece of legislation that we are supporting because it will assist with housing, which is an unfortunate situation that this particular Government has created by stripping out, in not just this Budget but previous Budgets, funding when it comes to housing need. It is important that those considerations as to what is in the bill are given full consideration by the select committee so that those issues can be addressed and teased out. You know, the role of councils is very, very important, but so is the role of those who will be undertaking this work if this legislation does pass. The nature of the work that is undertaken\u2014obviously, the footprint there is up to 70 square metres. That is a significant piece of land, so to speak, as a footprint, particularly on smaller existing sites, and so it will be important to delve down into the details of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ESo while we support this at first reading through to the select committee, we do hope that there will be a fulsome opportunity for the community and sectors to engage with it at that particular point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022 data-id=\u002262d71e79c5a6429ebcb8f1950d2a001a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262d71e79c5a6429ebcb8f1950d2a001a\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to give a shout-out to our top-quality New Zealand builders. These builders consistently demonstrate exceptional workmanship and uphold a high reputation for delivering quality work. I have no doubt that they will deliver high-quality housing that meets the New Zealand Building Code. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3a8f56aa8304e2ca41b6829266f27d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3a8f56aa8304e2ca41b6829266f27d9\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, I wanted to start by saying I\u2019m a little bit jealous of my colleague here, the member for Palmerston North, because he\u2019s got bollards at his K\u0101inga Ora sites. In Dunedin, in my electorate, I\u2019ve just got a few temporary fences where 41 apartment-type houses were scheduled to be built, houses demolished and ready to go. But what have I got? Fences. Not even bollards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abce1eef7fa94e8a95900e6d9b1f848d\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Shameful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4b07b1474da4179b0b939908ed1b129\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: It is shameful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c77e01ed27b541ddaf9c4b8d80d24869\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: The private sector will build them. Sell the land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229705e85744fe4f9080609cb85ba0aa0f\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m hearing from Mr Court that the private sector will build them. I guess that is a fundamental difference between this and that side of the House, and that we think that there needs to be good public housing in New Zealand. But it\u2019s interesting that maybe on that side, the whole Government agrees with Mr Court, which is always a worry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThe Building and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill: we\u2019ve heard that it\u2019s about granny flats, and you imagine a granny flat\u2014that does bring spring to mind. My husband\u2019s situation when he was growing up, he did indeed have his granny at the back of the garden in Oamaru. She lived in a small house and would come into the main house to have her meals. He was delighted by this arrangement, she was a great grandmother from all accounts; I was never lucky enough to meet her. But the point is that these houses are houses\u2014or they can be houses. As you know, 70\u00A0square metres is a large area. You can get houses of up to three bedrooms\u2014only one bathroom, but three bedrooms\u2014for 70 square metres. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s important that we acknowledge that these aren\u2019t just those little single units. They\u2019re different from what is already permitted or exempt from Schedule 1 of the Building Code, being those 30-square-metre buildings with no bathrooms. These buildings will have bathrooms in them. They could have gas heaters. They could have a whole lot of other things. So that does have an impact on the infrastructure. It\u2019s not the addition of one person; it could be the addition of a whole family.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, I have no problem with intensification, generally speaking, but we do need to plan for it. And so it is good that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227abb14927be14ad9bae614163e568972\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Density done well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8aa6fad727640febb89bcda309ecd0c\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that\u2019s exactly what we want: density done well, and it\u2019s good that councils will be able to have development contributions and will be able to charge development contributions for this. So that means that where that extra house is causing some need for a widening of a pipe, then the councils can get some of that money from the developers, which is good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, we know as well that the word \u201Csimple\u201D is used a lot when referring to this bill. \u201CSimple\u201D is doing a lot of heavy lifting there, and we have a schedule to the bill that is very important and I very much hope that the select committee spends a lot of time on this. I\u2019m hopeful too that Cameron Luxton is on this committee. He just gave us in his speech some examples of what he thinks are simple, sensible things, like eaves. But we have in the Schedule\u2014so that\u2019s on page 19 of the bill\u2014what simple means\u2014well, what it might mean\u2014and that\u2019s a single story, it\u2019s stand-alone, it\u2019s new, and it\u2019s 70 square metres, but also it\u2019s to be made of lightweight building products, being steel or timber. It has to be at least 2 metres away from other buildings or any legal boundary. Then it\u2019s got that the water supply, sanitary plumbing, and drainage must also be simple. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EBut what I haven\u2019t seen when reading through the regulatory impact statement and listening to the other speeches is if there was any analysis into what this will mean for the carbon embedded in those buildings. Has there been any analysis to see if there is a way to get low-carbon buildings into the scheme or not? What will these simple materials be made of? What are the simple materials? Where will they be manufactured?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThese are good points that Julie Anne Genter made as well about building not just to code but beyond that. But also, it\u2019s really important that natural hazards are addressed. Now, this bill, just the Building Act side of it, doesn\u2019t get around the need for a resource consent. Apparently that\u2019s going to happen in a separate process with the national environmental standards, but it is so important that that councils are able to stop buildings going into areas where they will create more of a hazard. This bill does mention that, but not nearly enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022 data-id=\u00220abc69f76e344eac80e625d73c6daccb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220abc69f76e344eac80e625d73c6daccb\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The best part of this bill is the effect it will have on the over 50 percent of ethnics that live in my electorate of Takanini to build a small dwelling on their property, especially when our Government implements our five-year parent visa. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022451367fbed804b33a34dd0da77a4c6b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022451367fbed804b33a34dd0da77a4c6b9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. Those with that opinion will say Aye; to the contrary, No. Carried. Is there a Minister? The Hon Louise Upston.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00223f997e6ed3654d19afae9369b2890af2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f997e6ed3654d19afae9369b2890af2\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister for Building and Construction: I move that the Building and Construction\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc73a92d0f7f4b559a3be5d8719b5cf4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry? Who called a party vote?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252d5d23117ef4befb9139517ebf3305d\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Tam did, but you didn\u2019t hear\u2014Tamatha Paul\u2014but I\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c7b2f5f31fc4eac84e719523e0af5b7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you\u2019ve got to do it quite loudly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e25a7b173194bc48feae2078ffca253\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Court over here, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022317e3509fe3a4db09653424ba9538747\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: I heard her, Mr Speaker\u2014I heard her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abf58d97f0424139b3eb7d388e380462\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it doesn\u2019t matter how many of you heard it; I didn\u2019t. But we\u2019ll conduct a party vote, just for the sake of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022895e3fe4d2a840d090a30dca2bc62c51\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Building and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 15\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022850156f5350a459faf1fc7abca884bbf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022850156f5350a459faf1fc7abca884bbf\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. I raise a point of order under Standing Order 298/2 and Speaker\u2019s ruling 86/7. The Minister for Building and Construction has indicated in his first reading speech that he intends to move a short report back from the select committee, because he\u2019s given the date of 23 September. So I\u2019d expect you to go to a debatable motion after that. The reason I raise it now is because the Minister gave a date of four months for the report back. In 298/2, what\u2019s contemplated there is a calendar day, not the date that urgency extends, which is the 22nd. If the Minister was wanting to indicate a longer report-back period, he would have given you 24 September and not the 23rd.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260059b7a0122425aba24f9cbe17b473d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s an interesting opinion, except for House purposes we\u2019re still in yesterday, which does mean that the Minister was speaking as if a date was one day back; counting forward from that day, he gets his four months and one day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb062286801a43689f4e23c1031ca717\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Further to the point of order. Thank you, sir. The problem with that interpretation, sir, is that the select committee will not, in fact, get four months to contemplate the bill. The effect is that if the House procedure in future nominated an earlier date than was contemplated than just one day, you would end up with select committees in the unenviable position of being treated as having four months, but not, in fact, getting four months. This will be a select committee that does not get four months. There is certainly an arguable proposition that it should be six months, and that is an amendment which I understand the Hon Julie Anne Genter would put were there a debate. I\u2019m asking you to put a debate for this motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239e2cb4598a448d09a4cdb3a4781d153\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, in all reality, it\u2019s not a motion that you\u2019re proposing. In all reality, the select committee could meet today, once the vote is through, and we\u2019re in the middle of that at the moment. That might have some mitigating effect, but the reality is that, quite often, the House will pass a bill requiring a particular report-back date. So the report-back date is not necessarily associated with the meeting dates of the committee, and I think that\u2019s the bit you\u2019re suggesting I should consider, but I\u2019m not quite following the logic, given the history of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228746a19513614654aa9afe6ba53868c6\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Sir, you\u2019re quite right. If the select committee was to convene today, it would be convening on the 23rd, and so then it would get four months, instead of four months and one day. That\u2019s in line with Speaker\u2019s ruling 86/7, which was made in 1988 by Speaker Burke, where he ruled that calendar days are the days which select committee operates by, and not relevant to the urgency motion which applies only to this debating chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251c65e1df230445fb804b2216d64cefb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that\u2019s quite right. Select committees do operate to calendar dates, but the House doesn\u2019t when it\u2019s in urgency. So any bill that passes today is considered to have been passed on the day that the urgency motion was taken. You can\u2019t have it all ways. If there is any dilemma here, it\u2019s a matter that should be taken up with the Standing Orders Committee. But for today, we are in, effectively\u2014what is the date today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8f5dfc1346d44f0a2926ef22bffc777\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: 22nd.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9c249a64ddb47b292063bba531a6874\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: 22nd, sorry, of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7ef63cbd8af4d87badc43ca82327850\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Is it? Or is it the 23rd? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e959c9f49ac4a088fbc9dcf33912037\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, while the rest of the New Zealand might have moved on a day, we\u2019re actually on the 22nd, and it is appropriate that anything that is moved today with a counter on it\u2014in other words, a period of time\u2014is considered from the 22nd.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00225969ff29ba584916b45e78b4083eea3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225969ff29ba584916b45e78b4083eea3e\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister for Building and Construction: I move that the Building and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 23 September 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b52c3ac75d44fbc97d8776522c0d212\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There was a bit before that that you haven\u2019t done. So what select committee are you sending it to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1ced318787a4bd892af6be1980a879d\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: My apologies, Mr Speaker. It will be referred to the Transport and Infrastructure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b604c234f2994cf690bc6d727748a5ed\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Minister, I think the Clerk needs to call the bill. Sorry, the interruption here has thrown everything out of shape.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db78a489758147a68ab9e06d81f9c999\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right. And now you talk about where you\u2019re sending it to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef3a9029cf8347b8b63024e72633e12b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef3a9029cf8347b8b63024e72633e12b\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister for Building and Construction: I invite the Transport and Infrastructure Committee to consider the Building and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill, and report it to the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223627bd0a7f9459f995424da1c0bd24a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. The question is, That the Building and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill be considered by the Transport and Infrastructure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Transport and Infrastructure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022785a4ad196a84481b3d9651257a995d3\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Do you want the next one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcc4969d9d38493bbafb4d112be6c2da\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2813f1239d0440cabf7c66f2f6f1142\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, this is not correct. [Referring to the paper in front of her.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221370998d92964681be679e8fdc5d375d\u0022\u003EInstruction to Transport and Infrastructure Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002248a71e1682ba40a1a28fdc615dabe034\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248a71e1682ba40a1a28fdc615dabe034\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Building and Construction: I move, That the Building and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 23 September 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224f530863e30a4417965fcd01e1ad5d68\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Building and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 23 September 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c105e15257a547c496eb97b67bff4b88\u0022\u003ESocial Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ccbc67406e3e4a5688060a580fbfa50d\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3e5ce82e178432c82939ef0cb7cc07d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3e5ce82e178432c82939ef0cb7cc07d\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260e6af2a792f4874aeba398b19f12309\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on Parliament\u2019s website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc2191d1ad3b405aab57afbcfaf10439\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ECurrently, if a person has two boarders, those board payments are disregarded when the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) calculates the person\u2019s eligibility for housing subsidies and other forms of income assistance. Currently, only board payments received from a third and subsequent boarder impact a person\u2019s income\u2014unless it is a person\u2019s main source of income\u2014when MSD calculates entitlements to assistance under the Social Security Act 2018. And only board payments received from a third and subsequent boarder currently impact a social-housing tenant\u2019s income-related rent, unless it is a person\u2019s main source of income, under the Public and Community Housing Management Act 1992. As a result, the same accommodation costs can be subsidised more than once by the Government. This occurs when both the person making the board payment and the person receiving the board payment receive a housing subsidy for the same accommodation costs. As a result, households with boarders are advantaged in the calculation of housing subsidies over households who do not have boarders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EIn contrast, rent payments received are currently considered when MSD calculates housing subsidies for a head tenant or homeowner. This means that those who receive board payments are unfairly advantaged, compared to those who receive rent payments, when MSD calculates housing subsidies. Furthermore, when rent payments received exceed the accommodation costs of the head tenant or homeowner, that excess amount is considered income, which then impacts other forms of assistance that MSD use\u2014the Social Security Act 2018, definition of \u201Cincome\u201D. However, board payments received are not treated this way, and this advantages those who receive board payments even more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill addresses this issue by amending the Social Security Act 2018 and the Public and Community Housing Management Act 1992, and their associated regulations. These changes will ensure that the housing contributions of all boarders\u2014that is, 62 percent of each boarder\u2019s weekly payment\u2014are recognised in a person\u2019s accommodation costs when MSD assess their entitlement to, and rate of, housing subsidy under the Social Security Act 2018. Housing subsidies covered by this change will be the accommodation supplement, the temporary additional support, and special benefit. The changes will also recognise the housing contributions\u2014again, 62 percent of payments\u2014of all boarders when calculating the income-related rent for social housing tenants under the Public and Community Housing Management Act 1992, instead of just the payments of the third and subsequent boarders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EFurthermore, this bill will ensure that when the housing contributions from boarders exceed a person\u2019s total allowable accommodation costs, or the market rent applicable if they\u2019re in social housing, that excess will be counted as income for any form of income-tested assistance that uses the Social Security Act 2018 definition of \u201Cincome\u201D. This bill would address the inconsistent treatment of board and rent payments received. These changes are based on common sense and fairness. The changes will help to ensure that our welfare system is sustainable so we can continue to deliver housing support to those who genuinely need assistance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ETo ensure these changes are implemented effectively, this bill includes other amendments. The accommodation supplement will no longer be considered a discretionary grant. This provides clarity for applicants and means the recipients will remain eligible for the accommodation supplement until they are no longer eligible, and MSD will cancel entitlement to an accommodation supplement if the recipient has not received a grant payment for eight consecutive weeks. The bill will also make clear that the portion of a property that a person lives at that is used for a person\u2019s business will not be considered part of their accommodation costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EFinally, the bill enables the disputes process to resolve any discrepancies. If the information provided by a person paying board or rent and the person receiving the board or rent doesn\u2019t match, and where they do not agree on the rate of payment, the disputes process will be used to address the discrepancy. These amendments are required to ensure that MSD is no longer subsidising the same accommodation costs more than once, and to ensure that board and rent payments are treated in a consistent manner\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker, I want to emphasise to the House that these changes will only affect those who receive board payments and not any housing subsidy paid to the boarder. It will only impact those people who are unfairly advantaged over those who receive another form of income. Most people who receive housing subsidies will not be impacted by these changes. This bill will ensure that clients are receiving the correct entitlement. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ada192487b44438d85f7b1c5e8a5644a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ada192487b44438d85f7b1c5e8a5644a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u002267598d0441d84530acca46e4e4434871\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267598d0441d84530acca46e4e4434871\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Well, barely 24 hours after their \u201Cbrutal bully Budget\u201D, where they literally stole from the workers to give to the bosses. After that terrible Budget of slash and burn, we see the first fruits of this sick Budget, with the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill. This is the first example of this Government\u2019s strategy going forward, and it\u2019s unrelenting\u2014it\u2019s unrelenting. Fresh from kicking workers in the face, this Government now wants to bash desperate Kiwis who\u2019ll have a boarder living with them. It\u2019s as simple as that. So we\u2019re now going to attack people who actually need support. How desperate is this Government getting to find money for their tobacco subsidies, military hardware, tax cuts, and landlord loopholes, when they\u2019re turning on uncles and aunties who take a boarder in to help pay the rent. I mean, how desperate is this Government that they have to turn the screws on people in the community who are really, really struggling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe rules currently work to ensure that you don\u2019t get unscrupulous head tenants, cramming people into rentals while receiving their own accommodation supplement. But this change will hit every single head tenant in New Zealand by including every boarder into the calculation. How on earth is that going to help any renter get a better rental? Surely that\u2019s got to be the question for the House today. Does the Minister for Social Development and Employment think about this? Does she think about the type of stress that that\u2019s going to put on different wh\u0101nau? The reality is that in terms of helping any renter get a better rental, this isn\u2019t going to help at all. If anything\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022818b49858ee54e44885718dc5f372a6b\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: Build a granny flat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221316318b350d4ea48813331934131e4e\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the unintended consequences of this will see fewer people\u2014as Joseph Mooney knows; he well knows\u2014wanting to be head tenants in a rental if the bureaucratic and punishment elements of this mean-spirited amendment goes through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe Government is so desperate to rob people to pay for their appalling Budget that they\u2019re turning on everyone and anyone who takes in a boarder. It\u2019s not just women, as we keep telling the public, and the public is very, very aware now of how this Government paid for its Budget, by sacrificing the women of this country. It\u2019s not just women\u2014although women are right at the forefront\u2014it\u2019s everyone. We understand the need of course to include more than three boarders in a rental for accommodation for allowance purposes. That is a restriction on profiting from slum-lording. But every single person who takes in a renter will net a pitiful amount of money from Kiwis who are already doing it tough. You don\u2019t take in a boarder because you are rich; you take in a boarder\u2014I\u2019m not sure if the other side knows this because they\u2019re not in that position. You take in a boarder because you want to pay the rent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c5cec85fb3a4c0fa9b14609da4025bd\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: How many houses have you got, Willie? You own more than me; I know that much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f2c2dd624d34477ad7c6caefe27550d\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014it helps pay the rent. Hustling these people, Mr Mooney, to fatten up Government revenue is disingenuous. It seems to be a theme of the Government\u2014hustle anyone, find the funding from anywhere, whether it\u2019s the good women of this country or beneficiaries, anything to pay for their rotten Budget. It shows how desperate that lot are that they want to make money off anyone who takes in a boarder just to help pay the rent. It\u2019s as simple as that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThis Government doesn\u2019t care about renters\u2014we know that\u2014but adding the punitive threats and punishments that will inevitably come along with this will simply see more people fall foul of the rules so this Government can penalise them even further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe Government pretends that this is making things more fairer by including the first and second boarder into a person\u2019s housing subsidy, but it isn\u2019t. It\u2019s changing the rules and then hunting down those who breached the new rules\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022430f49c40fbe4e008376920305a2cf07\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CMr Rich Landowner\u201D over there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eacacbd5bf4e421fabe05bdadff68da8\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014so they can penalise them further. Why make life more difficult for those trying to access housing subsidies, Mr Mooney? Why make life tough for people on Struggle Street? That\u2019s what this Government does. Kia ora, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6535c5e1929404f8ea9be29dbb814a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6535c5e1929404f8ea9be29dbb814a2\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s really outrageous that we\u2019re here a day after the Budget, debating a piece of legislation that will take away from some of our most vulnerable. This is off the back of the Government admitting that they\u2019re taking away from young people needing support, women in low-paid, undervalued work, people on the benefit who are now going to be facing cuts to benefit increases, tens of thousands of middle income earners who have children who need support, as well as now, people needing the income-related rent subsidy and the accommodation supplement to make ends meet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThere will be thousands of people left worse off as a result of this bill, and you don\u2019t have to believe me, you can believe the Government officials that the Minister Louise Upston very conveniently ignored in her speech, who advised her about the disproportionate impacts that this bill would have on our most vulnerable. People who have, for example, one boarder would basically be left almost $92 worse off as a result of this bill. And the Minister for Social Development and Employment does not care that the ministry advised her that people affected by this bill could now be needing temporary accommodation, hardship grants, and what is worse, this Government decided to pursue this harm to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy few. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThe Minister was advised, and again she conveniently ignored all of this in her speech and omitted it from her speech, that this piece of legislation and the Government massively overestimated the savings that they would be making in this bill because they rush it through without adequate consultation and analysis. And now the Government is claiming they\u2019re going to be saving $150\u00A0million, taking it from people who often need accommodation support to give it to the wealthy few. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224338352cd017485fb410c15936c41e0e\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: When\u2019s this man going to fight for the workers? Ever going to fight for the taxpayer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d527a0a13e6c4e60a8352db5d03b9b96\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: And that\u2019s all in the advice from the ministry. And it\u2019s wretched that the chair of the Social Services and Community Committee, Joseph Mooney, who we could have used to evaluate this bill, is heckling and just doesn\u2019t care. And he actually\u2014I think he doesn\u2019t care and hasn\u2019t even read the advice; he hasn\u2019t read the documents. And if he has, I think shame on him because the bill and the advice presented by the Ministry of Social Development clearly outlines the harm, the material harm that this bill will have on people, and it will push people deeper into poverty. Shame on the Government members making a mockery of Government legislation that will actually punish those doing it the toughest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EStripping away the accommodation supplement and the income-related rent subsidy from those who have boarders will simply push up the cost of living. The Minister is completely factually incorrect in saying that these are groups of people that are unfairly advantaged. We introduced this change almost more than 30 years ago because it was recognised that due to the neoliberal reforms of the 80s, sole parents, for example, should be supported to take on boarders because there were many people who were living in public housing who were actually facing high cost of living. And by allowing them to take boarders without them losing the income-related rent subsidy, they could actually have connections, support, and be well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8989315c1d94f4aaab8272b9597919e\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Because they were large State houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0de0697e2af40f197426e596726251a\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: And it\u2019s also rich that the Minister is now, finally, deciding to heckle and respond back, yet completely ignoring the fact that she will be leaving thousands of people worse off. She also happens to be the Minister for Child Poverty Reduction. And it\u2019s so clear that in this Government Budget, child poverty will continue to be at staggering levels, potentially getting worse as a result of the Government\u2019s decisions, because she does not care. She is the \u201CMinister for poverty\u201D rather than poverty reduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI want a Government that actually is bold and supports tenants who need adequate support. The accommodation supplement, it\u2019s not the perfect top-up, but it\u2019s a result of higher rents. We could be having things like rent controls, more supply of public housing\u2014which this Government is cutting\u2014instead of actually pushing through legislation that then strips away support from those who need it the most.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI want to go back to the supplementary analysis report that the ministry produced to actually show the Minister the impacts of her bill. It told us that disabled people would be disproportionately impacted by this piece of legislation\u2014oh, she also happens to be the Minister for Disability Issues! I think she\u2019s just turning her back on the very same communities that she\u2019s supposed to be serving by introducing legislation that disproportionately affects disabled people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EDoes the Minister Louise Upston disagree with the advice? Does she care about the disabled people that she\u2019s disproportionately leaving worse off as a result of this piece of legislation? She does not care because this is the BS Budget, full of BS, targeting the most vulnerable people in our communities, and yet somehow conjuring tax cuts for those that are already doing it well, hoping\u2014despite research showing us that in 40 years it hasn\u2019t happened\u2014that this will trickle down on those that are being punished right now. The Green Party won\u2019t be supporting this bill, and we look forward to adequately scrutinising it in the committee of the whole House stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u0022746aafca1ec14cf4b482e072517ce838\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022746aafca1ec14cf4b482e072517ce838\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m taking this call to support the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill on behalf of the ACT Party. It\u2019s quite a surprise to see that outrage from that member who just spoke before. I don\u2019t understand why they don\u2019t understand accountability, why they don\u2019t understand that this is an issue which we need to fix. Because this is about the cases of double subsidisation in housing subsidy for the same accommodation cost. Why, I don\u2019t understand, does the member support people getting double subsidy? And why don\u2019t we take into account every boarder? Because it\u2019s going to be fair for every dollar that goes into the welfare system, and also, there might be people, those who need that money more than these people, those who are getting it in the form of accommodation subsidy. We want to see that our welfare system is fair, to both taxpayers and also those who are receiving it, and that\u2019s why we support this bill. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u0022e51d166ce6a84b9f92ceae9d86816cd2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e51d166ce6a84b9f92ceae9d86816cd2\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First in support of the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill. This bill adds any housing contribution from all boarders to the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s calculations when assessing a person\u2019s entitlement to the accommodation supplement. It\u2019s an omnibus bill. The purpose of it is to ensure that housing contributions received from all boarders are considered when calculating entitlement to\u2014and the rate of\u2014housing subsidies, which will in fact ensure more equitable treatment of board and rent payments received. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc0711115c0c44fd9f0d4f4995e34baf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc0711115c0c44fd9f0d4f4995e34baf\u0022\u003ETAKUTAI TARSH KEMP (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014T\u0101maki Makaurau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou an\u014D e te Whare. I stand in full and utter disapproval of the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill on behalf of T\u0101maki Makaurau and on behalf of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori. This bill is part and parcel of this Government telling New Zealanders to go and stick it; that you\u2019re on your own; and that too bad, how sad if you\u2019re M\u0101ori, rangatahi, Pasifika, homeless, hungry, and on the streets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EThis bill is a direct assault on wh\u0101nau who rely on collective living to survive. It punishes M\u0101ori for practising manaakitanga; for opening their homes to boarders, tamariki, kaum\u0101tua, or extended wh\u0101nau, by slashing the accommodation supplement and treating their support systems as income. It targets our survival strategies if they are fraud, when in reality they are whakapapa in action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EBy tightening income rules and increasing surveillance on boarders, it serves to divide our homes, forces people to hide their living arrangements, and pushes already struggling wh\u0101nau deeper into poverty. This is not a policy of fairness; it\u2019s a cost-cutting mechanism that criminalises poverty, undermines tikanga, and enforces a P\u0101keh\u0101 model of isolated living that has never worked for our people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EThis legislation absolutely squeezes eligibility and squashes the accommodation supplement on those wh\u0101nau who are providing a roof over the heads of others. They are providing a roof over the heads of others because this Government\u2014and, actually, successive Governments\u2014have failed us. They have failed our people and have contributed to a housing crisis, a poverty crisis that keeps brown people homeless and incarcerated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EThe members in the Government need a reality check. They need a reality check because wh\u0101nau M\u0101ori and Pasifika and those on welfare support don\u2019t have the luxury of living isolated as a wh\u0101nau. We have responsibilities\u2014intergenerational responsibilities\u2014that mean that we provide for others. We have shared living to put a roof over our cuzzies, over our nannies, and kaum\u0101tua because this Government have failed us. Our households are multi-generational; it is a M\u0101ori way of living to manaaki and to look after our families\u2014from kaum\u0101tua to mokopuna. This bill punishes us for taking care of each other, for living collectively, for supporting rangatahi, kaum\u0101tua, or solo parents. They are asserting that that our way of living is fraud and that we\u2019re double-dipping, and in fact criminalising our way of living.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s not forget M\u0101ori are absolutely overrepresented in poverty, and that is by design. When you target people who board or share homes to survive, you\u2019re targeting M\u0101ori because we\u2019re over-represented in poverty, in housing need, and in wh\u0101nau-based living. This is a P\u0101keh\u0101-centric welfare policy that doesn\u2019t understand how M\u0101ori live. We share homes, we support each other not for profit but to survive and uplift each other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EThis bill has nothing to do with fairness. It\u2019s about slashing welfare support. The real problem isn\u2019t so-called \u201Cdouble-dipping\u201D, it\u2019s a fact that housing is unaffordable and benefits are too low\u2014and this Government are telling our families to go and stick it, you\u2019re on your own.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EThe solution is clear: wealth tax now, wealth tax on assets above $2 million other than the family home, foreign companies tax, land banking, and ghost house tax. The redistribution of wealth is the answer, not making legislation to protect wealth and power. Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, as the Government-in-waiting, wholeheartedly do not support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u00226c80adf83b2c4a1a826f50f9d84061ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c80adf83b2c4a1a826f50f9d84061ee\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I rise to speak on the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent Amendment Bill\u2014a long bill that I can probably just summarise much more simply than that. This simply prevents subsidisation of the same accommodation costs more than once. Currently, the Government is subsidising the tenant, or the landowner, and giving them an accommodation supplement, and then it\u2019s supplementing the boarder at the same time, and that\u2019s for the first two boarders of any boarding relationship. This will no longer be the case. There\u2019ll be one subsidy that goes to one property for the one room that\u2019s in that property. This is a very sensible thing that recognises the value of taxpayers to New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EWe recognise workers, we recognise the contribution they make, and we manage their money carefully. Ironically, we heard from a member opposite, who is one of the bigger property owners, going on and on about the Government not caring about other people\u2014a great irony. We heard from the Green Party what was, frankly, a load of nonsense. They just voted against granny flats. We\u2019re about lifting people up, giving opportunity to people, helping people develop their own mana\u2014less K\u0101wanatanga; more tino rangatiratanga. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022864d1bc7589e481999932dac5e73eee1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022864d1bc7589e481999932dac5e73eee1\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I think it\u2019s time we actually explained what this bill did because the Government don\u2019t seem very interested in doing that. The thing that this bill is doing is it is taking away something that was encouraged in the past. In the 1990s we had a reduction in the amount that people got on benefits\u2014in the early 1990s. And what they decided to do when that happened was they decided, in 1992, to allow people who were in accommodation\u2014so they were in situations where the Government was subsidising that accommodation and a lot of those people were in public housing and they allowed them to use what was, often, a bigger State house. They said, \u201CIt\u2019s OK if you have some boarders in there. You can have one or two boarders and we\u2019re not going to take any money off you.\u201D Now, you\u2019ve got to remember, though, that the amount that those people were getting was very low and it remains low to this day\u2014much lower than is possible for most of us in this House to live on. For example, a solo mother now gets $494.80 to live off every week. I challenge anyone in this House to give that a go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThere is an accommodation supplement on top. But I want to make the point that while we talk about \u201Cdouble-dipping\u201D, what we\u2019re actually talking about is something that previous Governments have agreed was a good idea because it allowed people to have boarders. It meant that we filled up our State houses. It meant that people were able to just add a little bit more to what was available in families. I take the point of the Green member that this is the same Minister who\u2019s responsible for child poverty reduction and we are very likely to see a correlation here because it\u2019s the solo mothers who have a boarder or two that will now have to pay more money and will lose money from the Government. So they lose about $100 a week. It\u2019s $132 in some situations and it\u2019s $100 in others. There are people who will be losing a lot more than that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EAnd there is this great document\u2014and for anybody who\u2019s watching, because we aren\u2019t going to go to a select committee on this, this is the one to read. This is an objective report. It\u2019s a supplementary analysis of the situation. It goes through, and it does as good a job as it can looking at this. And do you know what it says? It says, \u201CThe risks associated with these changes include a disproportionate impact on marginalised communities.\u201D And do you know, Madam Speaker, who they mean? They mean\u2014in this debate\u2014the disabled, they mean youth, they mean Pacific, they mean M\u0101ori, because those are the communities that are marginalised. And they go through, in the analysis, and they talk about the impact on those groups, and they are actually really specific. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EIn the committee stage we will be talking through, and we will be asking some questions about the impacts on those groups because those are the groups that will lose, in this Budget, $100 or $130, on an average. There will be people in those groups who lose more. And I ask this House whether that is a responsible thing to do, when this Government was elected in because it said it was going to address a cost of living crisis. These are the very people who are most at risk in the cost of living crisis. They are hurting out there and this Government\u2019s Budget hurts them a lot more. Because to lose $100 when that is the benefit that you\u2019re on\u2014you\u2019re on $494 if you\u2019re a solo mother. You\u2019re going to lose $132 if you have two boarders. Is that a good thing, at this time? Is it really where this Government told the public, when they voted for them, they were going? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EOne of the things that this report talks about is the risks that are there because of this, the unintended consequences. They talk about the fact that people just won\u2019t have boarders anymore and that will mean that we have more people on our waiting lists. They talk about the issues that it means for this group of people who will actually be so poor they\u2019re coming back and asking for hardship grants. That\u2019s what we\u2019ve got to talk about today. We\u2019re under urgency, but we will be in this side of the House holding this Government to account as best we can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022 data-id=\u00227b0a5868f3a047dcb21c14433c9ba2e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b0a5868f3a047dcb21c14433c9ba2e0\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill addresses specifically the situation where one boarder pays for that boarding opportunity and the person receiving that payment both claim the housing accommodation supplement. That is what this bill seeks to address. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00222e1fffce27e1475a94bc44feec6b71c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e1fffce27e1475a94bc44feec6b71c9\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. When the New Zealand public need to assess what this bill does, it actually comes down to really simple question: will people be better off or worse off because of these changes? Sometimes, we can get caught up in all the detail, and the Government can try to justify things and put, what they think is, quite a compelling case. But no one is going to be better off because of this bill. It\u2019s quite simple: everyone that this bill affects will be worse off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIn the broader context of housing, this bill actually makes things worse. It\u2019ll be harder for people to afford their housing, and it will discourage people from boarding. If people are discouraged from boarding, there are fewer accommodation options available and, potentially, people won\u2019t have accommodation. When you look at the figures, and some people could be affected by up to $100 a week, that could well be the difference between them being able to afford their rent and not\u2014and if people can\u2019t afford their rent, then they don\u2019t have housing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIn a context when homelessness is increasing at unprecedented levels, when we have the Wellington City Mission saying things have been worse than they have ever seen, when, just today, there was a story in the press that said that in Canterbury, homelessness is growing at levels that they\u2019ve never previously seen, where changes that this Government has made to emergency housing is literally locking people out from accessing the accommodation needs that they have\u2014people in genuine need\u2014this just makes things worse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow I would have thought that when the Government is looking around for savings to try and make this Budget add up, surely, they could have looked elsewhere. Because we\u2019re talking about the people that need the most support. No one chooses to board because they want to; they choose because they have to, and now those people, through whatever circumstances that they are in, the best accommodation situation that they can find is to board with other people, and now the accommodation supplement, which they rely on, in some cases is going to be reduced up to $100 a week. That is a massive cut\u2014$100 a week. It doesn\u2019t matter how much someone earns, a hundred bucks a week is massive. When that is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5937f5b4f7a45fe87dc6337c593a401\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcbf8b1f90b846f9bfd0f14642d7bb50\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s always laughing on that side of the House when we\u2019re talking about poor people becoming poorer. I\u2019ve done, I don\u2019t know, two or three speeches so far around this Budget, and every time I\u2019ve done something and mentioned that this makes it worse off, the people in the Government laugh, every time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a064d2230d640148f9897a59b29d92e\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Disgraceful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022826b51f7f0b04e298f4b0b728b6be27b\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: It actually is disgraceful. A hundred bucks a week\u2014I don\u2019t know how they can justify it. We\u2019ve had interjections: \u201COh, think about the taxpayer and think about that\u201D, and all this sort of stuff. All they are thinking about is their Budget, because they entered into tax cuts that were unaffordable and now they\u2019ve been desperately searching, for the last few months, to try and make that add up, and these are the people that are paying for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe people that are paying for their shoddy Budget and their stupid decisions are the people that can afford it the least. They have\u2014they\u2019ve tried to justify it. Those that have actually spoken to it, they\u2019ve tried to justify it by saying, \u201COh, well, you know, the things that this bill brings in is in effect when there\u2019re three boarders already.\u201D Why not bring it down to two or one? If you\u2019re in an accommodation situation where there are three boarders, then it actually is justifiable, because the costs are split across more people. But once you start going down to two and one boarder, and it equates to $100 less available to that person, no one will be able to stand up and say that they have had advice that this will not lead to more homelessness. They won\u2019t\u2014they will not have that advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIf the Government cannot show the people of New Zealand that this bill\u2014that their decisions\u2014will not lead to higher levels of homelessness, then it\u2019s clearly unjustifiable. When we have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289d16265ceff4ccd9e5cbe76188a2406\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: What about the granny flats, Kieran?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c3c26fd1de84e9b94622dc7b9f7247a\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: When we have a situation, Joseph Mooney, where you have voted for things that have increased homelessness, quite frankly, there are more people sleeping in cars and on the street, and in garages and in tents, because of you and what you have done, and you\u2019re sitting here saying this is OK? Unbelievable. A hundred bucks a week might not be much for Joseph Mooney, but when it is the difference between people actually living in accommodation and living under a bridge, and they\u2014the Government\u2014laugh, and they can\u2019t justify it, but they yell out anyway, I think the people of New Zealand can see all that they need to about what the values are of this Government and the lengths they\u2019ve gone to, to try to make their Budget add up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022 data-id=\u002245df6fd9ddb14bb99d62781b36178717\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245df6fd9ddb14bb99d62781b36178717\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Look, I would just like to set the record straight here because it was that side of the House that sent this country into a full housing crisis. So to listen to that speaker Kieran McAnulty talk about homelessness and people in cars\u2014on this side of the House we\u2019re sorting it out. That is why this bill is a sensible, common-sense, practical, and fair bill where we will address the double subsidisation of housing subsidies for the same accommodation costs. It\u2019s very simple and sensible, and that is why I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223a968d701c404f159ce88f7935b94ebd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000727\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6bc4557c5cc4d5b9e2c864d57176ca4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6bc4557c5cc4d5b9e2c864d57176ca4\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is set down for second reading immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022df43362c84e14a9b9606fb9a645bad97\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00223bab2b870e904c289ac938892f02d1eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bab2b870e904c289ac938892f02d1eb\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThis bill seeks to amend the Social Security Act 2018 and the Public and Community Housing Management Act 1992 and associated regulations to ensure that all board payments received are treated in a similar way to other forms of income, in particular rent payments received. The objectives have already been outlined to the House, so I won\u2019t repeat them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe bill seeks to recognise payments from boarders when assessing a person\u2019s entitlement to housing subsidence and other forms of income assistance. It\u2019s making sure that the Government is not subsidising the same accommodation costs more than once. By ensuring the housing subsidies and income assistance accurately reflects a person\u2019s circumstances, it will return $150 million in net operating funding to the Government over four years. This directly contributes to easing the cost of living and inflation, and supports those who are paying tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ECurrently, payments received from a first and second boarder are disregarded, and only board payments received from the third and subsequent boarders impact a person\u2019s income for the purpose of calculating entitlements. Also, currently for social housing tenants, only contributions received for the third and subsequent additional residents count towards assessable income when calculating the rate of income-related rent, unless the contributions received are the person\u2019s main source of income.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThis bill will ensure that all housing contributions received from all boarders are considered when calculating the rate of housing subsidies under the Social Security Act 2018, such as the accommodation supplement, and considered when calculating social housing tenants\u2019 income-related rent. As I said, it will ensure the Government will no longer be subsidising the same accommodation costs more than once. It also ensures that when payments from boarders\u2014and this is an important note that I think the Opposition missed\u2014exceed the total allowable accommodation costs or the market rent for the social housing property, the excess is then considered as income and any other income-tested assistance that applies to the Social Security Act definition of income, such as income-tested main benefits. So what we\u2019re saying here is that you could have boarders that provide income over and above the total allowable accommodation cost. The other side thinks that that\u2019s fair and fair to taxpayers\u2014crazy. These changes are based on common sense and fairness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe bill also includes other amendments to ensure effective implementation of the policy proposals. This includes defining a boarder in the legislation and enabling a new disputes process; making the accommodation supplement no longer a discretionary payment; and specifying that the portion of a property that a person lives in, that is used for their business\u2014which, again, makes sense\u2014is excluded from the accommodation supplement. You shouldn\u2019t be getting the accommodation supplement for parts of your house that are used for a business. And the opposite side also didn\u2019t seem to understand that the changes in this bill will only affect those who receive board payments, not those who are boarders. They seem to have missed that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EHousing subsidies and income assistance will always be available to those who need support and qualify for it, so most people who receive housing subsidies won\u2019t be affected by this at all. But it will help our Government reach our goal of ensuring that public services are sustainable and continue to deliver assistance to those in need. These changes will lead to fairer outcomes for people who receive housing subsidies. I look forward to seeing this bill through the remaining stages of our process and commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022776a3e8dd8264ae291058e0e783270fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022776a3e8dd8264ae291058e0e783270fe\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00221e615f9bc5424f46846dd64628018ab4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e615f9bc5424f46846dd64628018ab4\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m glad the Government are really happy to have me talking today. I really enjoy their support. It\u2019s really good. As Kieran McAnulty said, another mean-spirited, terrible initiative from this Government. The bottom line is, as Kieran McAnulty said\u2014our homes spokesman\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8b12c5062d6410094c87e28ebf18306\u0022\u003EJamie Arbuckle\u003C/span\u003E: The next leader of the Labour Party!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e296cb86d767470491c11bf9bc0be932\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Says the man who will never get anywhere in New Zealand First. As Kieran McAnulty said: will this improve things in terms of where we are at the moment? Will the vulnerable again be exposed with this particular kaupapa? That\u2019s our concern\u2014that\u2019s our concern. By forcing those who take a boarder to include the first and second boarder as income, will remove the incentive to have that boarder in the first place. And I think we\u2019ve been quite explicit with that. It is such a worry that this attempt to hustle people who take in boarders might mean head tenants or people renting out a spare room no longer want to do it, and we could see a spike in boarders being pushed out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWhat does that mean again? Again, we have a problem in terms of homelessness. Again, we have a problem in terms of emergency housing. Of course, we know that the Government likes playing around with numbers, and we wouldn\u2019t have a clue in terms of what\u2019s happening in that area, because they keep telling us that they are removing people and getting people out of emergency housing. The question remains, of course, is where are they going? And those are answers that Minister Potaka and Minister Bishop cannot give us. Constantly we ask them, what\u2019s happening with the homeless? They wouldn\u2019t have a clue. What we know is that homelessness has increased incredibly in this country over the last year or so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThis particular kaupapa could impact up to 20,000 people in New Zealand receiving house assistance who have a boarder. How will this make renting any easier? That\u2019s the question that the Government have to ask themselves. When we have a cost of living crisis, many take in a boarder; to do so helps them offset the costs. The Government, sadly, thinks that there\u2019s some sort of major scheme going on when people are taking in boarders, but this amendment only takes money from people who can least afford to have that money taken from them in the first place. The argument is the current system isn\u2019t fair because the first and second boarders are not included in the accommodation assessment, but the incentive to take a boarder in while that exists ensures we have a ready supply of boarding homes. Closing this to make money is just mean-spirited. And when you consider these changes come alongside the new accommodation supplement changes in 2027, where people will be forced to pay 40 percent of their rent, up from the 30 percent, we see a pattern of legislation that is focused on screwing down and pushing down renters and those who require housing subsidy assistance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why this is another double whammy, so to speak, for M\u0101ori, for Pasifika, for the disabled, and for working people, because these are the ones inevitably impacted hardest by these changes. Pushing up rental thresholds and including boarders for accommodation assistance calculations is helping who, here? That\u2019s the question. This will impact on all those who access the accommodation supplement; temporary additional support; grandparented widows benefit; student allowance; the accommodation benefit for sole parents, as calculated using the accommodation supplement rules; away from home allowance; and the income-related rent subsidy. You know, we\u2019re continually asking the question from this side of the House: where are the concerns and the voices of support for people who will find themselves in the most stressful circumstances because of this type of legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWe have an obligation on this side of the House to voice those concerns, and that\u2019s what this side is doing today. It seems that anyone weaker than this Government is in the firing line. It\u2019s all cumulative. On its own, including the first and second boarder might be acceptable, but when you include all of the punitive measures and clawbacks and nasty fish-hooks that this Government has passed recently, it becomes just so overwhelming, and you can see why so many wh\u0101nau, so many people are heading off to Australia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EMy fear with this is that it will become as bureaucratic as the Government\u2019s deeply flawed Best Start programme and cause people to turn away a boarder because of the extra complexity. Is that where we want to be? Now they\u2019re going to turn away boarders. As I keep saying, they do not take on boarders to get rich; they take on boarders because of the cost of living, to pay the rent. If you come to Auckland, you\u2019ll see couples renting two-room places, $600 per week. I mean, the minimum, if they\u2019re lucky\u2014$800 per week is not out of the ordinary. Young couples or older couples will inevitably take on flatmates to help with the financial situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThis feels like the Government is just totally desperate, reaching behind the couch to see if there\u2019s any more loose change to fund their Budget. I mean, we\u2019ve seen the sacrifice. They\u2019ve sacrificed New Zealand women. How many New Zealand women was it, Megan Woods? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212280d72b5814798bfad1d2ade02503f\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Too many.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257fe50042cc74db59612f68501c74b7f\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Too many. Hundreds of thousands. Hundreds of thousands of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228faff30df1d64b5bb02304d137aafa7e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: 180,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210c93127a2f54de4950850eda03936fd\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: 180,000\u2014180,000 New Zealand women sacrificed for the Budget. But it goes on, and this is another example of it. The exemption of the first two boarders was to encourage better utilisation of State housing and encourage beneficiary households, particularly sole parent beneficiaries living in large State houses, to take on a boarder or boarders to offset some of some of their costs. What this Government now wants to do is bash that infrastructure and take money directly out of the pockets of beneficiaries and sole parents, at the same time as this Government announces more punitive welfare sanctions. That\u2019s the problem. It\u2019s not just one thing, everybody\u2014\u201COh, it\u2019s not a big problem.\u201D Oh yeah, that\u2019s right, but then there\u2019s all these other things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s like their Budget. It\u2019s like their M\u0101ori budget. You know, they\u2019ve taken all the money away from M\u0101ori. I know I\u2019m going off the subject here, but it\u2019s disturbing us that they\u2019ve taken $1 billion out of the M\u0101ori budget. But they say, \u201COh, no, it\u2019s all there,\u201D but they\u2019ve transferred it across to a general fund. Shocking, really, but always robbing Peter to pay Paul seems to be the strategy of this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abff83f9af36450c88436f39b08d51f2\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Robbing Mary to pay Paul.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022907a954e950e4bcc81362cf992ab6cf4\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Robbing Mary to pay? Ha, ha! This is a constant war on the poor and it\u2019s good that former Minister Sepuloni is here. She knows better than anyone, having overseen our strategy in past years, the way we were going as a Government, more embracing and more understanding of our poorer people who are struggling, struggling with different complexities. Knowing I always salute our former Minister for Social Development and Employment here because she opened up things. It was a more aroha-type approach in terms of what was happening with people at the coalface. But this is a constant war on the poor. After witnessing them taking $12 billion from the pay parity pockets of working women and men so they could give $6 billion to the bosses, it helps explain how they can then target those on welfare who have taken in a boarder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EAnd that\u2019s the problem. We\u2019ve got a Budget. This is all Budget-related. Everything is about trying to pay for a Budget that they could never afford. But they can afford it if they turn their attention and if they focus on taking from groups who can least expect it. Women have been at the forefront of this sacrifice and this Government will pay for what they have done over the last couple of weeks. This will hurt the poorest hardest, which seems to be, as I said, the main threshold for social policy from this Government. It\u2019s petty, it\u2019s mean-spirited, and, once again, it\u2019s taking from the poorest to pay the rich. The Government claimed they will save $150 million from these changes. But let\u2019s examine the word \u201Csave\u201D. What the Government means is that they will take $150 million from the poorest renters. That\u2019s where they will save this money, by taking it from the poorest. That\u2019s not a solution. This is a trickle-up economics where the poor subsidise the wealthy, and that sums up this Government well. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022 data-id=\u00223075ff1bb97e4278bef19771c768338c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223075ff1bb97e4278bef19771c768338c\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise today to speak on behalf of the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand to strongly oppose this bill, a bill that might just look like a tidy administrative change, but, in reality, is a cut\u2014a cut to the incomes of some of the most vulnerable people in our society, some of the most vulnerable people in Aotearoa. This will affect children. This will affect disabled people. This will affect beneficiaries and our older people. It is a cut to those who rely on housing assistance to survive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EBefore I get into the nitty-gritty of why this legislation is so shoddy and really harmful\u2014and an actual embarrassment to the country that we live in\u2014I want to talk about the use of urgency. It is outrageous\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e2ddff4f4094261944fca8b73cf1317\u0022\u003EFrancisco Hernandez\u003C/span\u003E: Outrageous!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227db9fccb40a64e0091f2a50bb26a58d7\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014absolutely outrageous\u2014that this horrid bill is being pushed through under urgency. I know the communities I serve: our disability communities and our disabled people, my Christchurch community, our low-income wh\u0101nau, and the people who advocate for these communities would have wanted to have a say on this bill, because they are the ones with lived experience. They are the ones out there supporting these communities. Instead, it is being rushed through without this very important feedback and scrutiny from the public and from the people that this bill most affects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EThis bill changes the way that the accommodation supplement and the income-related rents are calculated for people who take in one or two boarders\u2014building community, building wh\u0101nau, helping each other, sharing. Sharing is caring; that\u2019s what my mum always said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a1748d539634696bbc44842e2dff4a6\u0022\u003EFrancisco Hernandez\u003C/span\u003E: She\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4f184592dbf4d88ad7e038478e9e0bc\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right; she was right. Right now, those board payments are not counted as income, because they aren\u2019t truly income. They\u2019re cost-sharing arrangements. They help wh\u0101nau survive. This bill will change that and, in doing so, it will make life harder for thousands of low-income houses already on the edge\u2014already who do not have the means to pay for the things that we all need to live a good life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003ESince 1992, the Governments have rightly recognised that small board payments, particularly from one or two people, shouldn\u2019t be treated as income. The policy was simple and fair: it enabled people to open their homes, reduce their costs, and ease pressure on the housing system. We hear the Government side of the House say over and over that there is a housing crisis that needs to be fixed. This is one of the things that helps people stay in homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EThis bill flips that sharing on its head, and that ability to ease the pressure from the housing system. It treats cost-sharing as profit and it punishes people who are doing exactly what we ask of them: finding ways to make housing affordable within their communities. This is not smart policy; this is penny-pinching from those with the least. Let\u2019s remember who is affected here: solo parents, disabled people, people on superannuation, low-wage workers, and beneficiaries. These are people who are already not making ends meet. The rising cost of food, rent, transport, and electricity is pushing families to breaking point, and I invite the other side of the House to try and walk a mile in these people\u2019s shoes, to live with their budgets and see if they could do it for a week, for a month, for six months, for six years\u2014see if you could make those ends meet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EAll of this is happening in the exact same week that we saw the release of the Budget\u2019s Child Poverty Report 2025, a report that confirmed our deepest fears. This Government\u2019s decisions are not only failing to reduce child poverty; they are making it worse. The report stated clearly that this Budget will have no meaningful impact on child poverty rates\u2014none. And despite having the tools, the data, and the mandate, the Government has chosen to stand still while children fall deeper and deeper into hardship. Worse still, the decision to means test the Best Start payment will rip vital income from 62,000 new parents, and for 55,000 of them it means receiving nothing in their baby\u2019s crucial first year of life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EAs Alicia Sudden of the New Zealand Council of Christian Social Services put it, and I quote, \u201CThis Budget will leave thousands of children in poverty.\u201D Let that sink in\u2014thousands more children in poverty while the Government chips away at housing assistance, benefits, and support for new parents. This bill, in that context, is not neutral; it is cruel. And the fact that we are pushing it through under urgency without hearing from those parents, without hearing from disabled people, without hearing from our kaum\u0101tua\u2014it makes me shake my head in shame that this is the country we live in. We are a modern country, we are a modern society, and we need laws that reflect that, and caring for our tamariki should be at the centre of everything we do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EThe Green Party believes in a welfare system grounded in dignity, fairness, and mana-enhancing support. We believe in a Government that upholds its duty of care, especially to children and to wh\u0101nau struggling in poverty\u2014wh\u0101nau in crisis. If we want to ensure public housing is used effectively, efficiently, let\u2019s build more of it. Let\u2019s regulate the private rental market. Let\u2019s ensure every person has a safe, stable, and affordable place to live. But let\u2019s not do what this bill proposes to do: clawing back income from low-income people just to hit a Budget target. Some things are more important than the bottom line, and our tamariki and people in our country are more important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003ESo the Green Party opposes the bill in the strongest possible terms. This bill punishes people sharing their homes, building community, doing the thing that my mum instilled in me when I was a child. Sharing is caring, living is giving, and I think that maybe that would be a great slogan for the next election. Let\u2019s care for the people in our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a65e227622374ba7b7dc141773d67391\u0022\u003EFrancisco Hernandez\u003C/span\u003E: What would the Green Budget do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022565b7bb90c61404bb6095e2a57881ff8\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: The Green Budget would be amazing. This bill cuts income from people who are already living in poverty, and it does so at a time when the Government\u2019s own Budget report confirms that thousands more children will be left in hardship. This is not the Aotearoa that I believe in; this is not the Aotearoa that we believe in at the Greens. We stand for a country where everyone has what they need to thrive, where every child grows up free from poverty\u2014[Interruption]\u2014yeah, let\u2019s have children grow up free from poverty; I don\u2019t know why you\u2019re laughing about that\u2014and where Government policy lifts people up, not pushes them down. We urge, in this House, to do the right thing: vote against this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u002296e1ba7392154f57864bb1a6f47f9293\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296e1ba7392154f57864bb1a6f47f9293\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m taking this call on behalf of the ACT Party to support the second reading of the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill. This bill doesn\u2019t stop anybody from sharing their State house. People can still have boarders in the house if they have space to keep boarders. But what the bill does is it stops the double subsidy for the same accommodation. It makes it fairer for everybody, even for those who are in State houses because there are some people, those in bigger State houses, who can have boarders, but there might be some people who are not in those kinds of big houses where they can have boarders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EIt is about levelling the opportunity that is available to everybody as well as making sure that taxpayers are not subsidising the same accommodation twice through a double subsidy\u2014one to the boarder and one to the person who has the boarder at their place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThis bill also sets a process if there is a conflict in the information that is provided by the boarder and the person who is having the boarder there. This actually is a very thought-through bill to ensure that the system brings fairness and accountability, and the member who spoke before me, Kahurangi Carter, said they like fairness, and that is exactly what this bill does. It is about fairness. It is not just about the money that is spent but also about people who are in different types of State houses. And that is why we support this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u002288559681492443159727b67e57596af7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288559681492443159727b67e57596af7\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to take a call in the second reading of the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EThis piece of legislation applies the fairness rule. It does that because it aims to prevent accommodation costs being subsidised more than once. It ensures fairness by ensuring that people who receive board payments are treated the same as those who receive rent payments\u2014so that\u2019s the fairness rule applied there\u2014when calculating their eligibility for the accommodation supplement. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe7e883470774152be6f6e7fa16c44a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe7e883470774152be6f6e7fa16c44a6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March. And the Green Party have indicated in writing that you can have their five minutes as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022201e114dd9864997af7d2795a182f02c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022201e114dd9864997af7d2795a182f02c\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, yeah\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222695f49936724ca8a53a037d55b98464\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014sorry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221d2b38a75bc40b4834b91bd76b91caf\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. We just heard a lot from the previous member, Jenny Marcroft, in their very brief\u2014and, quite frankly, lacking in substance\u2014contribution around fairness. It seems to me that fairness, according to the Government members, is stripping away support from people in public housing, low-income people. Fairness seems to be, for the Government, pushing people into needing hardship assistance and temporary accommodation, because that is exactly what this bill does, and either the previous member did not read the advice from the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) or actually talk to people experiencing hardship, or she just doesn\u2019t care. I think it\u2019s probably a combination of both, because what this bill is, effectively, doing is stripping away critical support for people who are living with boarders, and, often, the large, vast majority of these people are not the Government\u2019s wealthy mates. They\u2019re people who were either living in emergency housing prior to entering into public housing or they were people facing unaffordable rents, because most people are unlikely to be looking for boarders unless they actually needed that additional support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThe policy that we had prior to this piece of legislation, where you could have boarders without losing then your accommodation supplement and income-related subsidy, was designed to support the people who were often in hardship from being able to have those support networks. I find it rich and at the same time cruel that the Government members completely ignore the material consequences of this bill\u2014the negative material consequences\u2014that will push people deeper into poverty and deeper into hardship. The reality is that this bill disproportionately impacts M\u0101ori, Pacific people, and older people\u2014and I also think it is really rich that New Zealand First claims that they support senior citizens a lot, and yet they\u2019re quite happy to push a bill through that actually disproportionately impacts our older community as well as disabled people and young people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EYoung people are really getting the double whammy at the moment in the Budget. Not only is their ability to access income support being stripped away but now we have a bill that will disproportionately affect them. Young people\u2014often those that are leaving family violence or who may have experienced youth homelessness\u2014are often some of the people that will most likely be needing to board, and they\u2019re people who are often seeking to live with members of their extended family or people who they\u2019ve found along the way for support. The Government seems to be extremely comfortable with stripping away one of the few supplementary assistances that exist that allows people to retain housing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThe reality of this bill is that it will also criminalise people doing it tough. As we\u2019ve heard from the ministry itself, one of the likely impacts of this bill is that people will be then pushed into a situation where they will be encouraged, in some ways, to literally lie to MSD about their accommodation circumstances in order to not face a hike in the rent. To me, this speaks of an approach from this Government of neglect in criminalising the poor in order to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy few. This is all in the document entitled Including Boarders\u2019 Contributions in the Calculations of Housing Subsidies: Supplementary Analysis Report, and the fact that this analysis itself identifies that people are more likely going to be committing fraud and not reporting their boarders is pretty concerning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThis bill also acknowledges that the so-called savings that the Government is making in this piece of legislation are going to be passed on to other parts of the system. For example, if you lose your accommodation supplement and you lose your income-related subsidies, you\u2019re far more likely to then be needing things like hardship grants. That\u2019s a cost that is then being passed from one part of the system on to MSD, which is why the ministry itself acknowledged that the Government overestimated the savings that they would be making as part of this piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ENot only is the Government happy to put the boot down on people who need support the most but they\u2019re being fiscally illiterate and irresponsible by not acknowledging that the so-called savings that they are making on the accommodation supplement and income-related rent subsidy costs are being passed on to other parts of the Ministry of Social Development. At a time when we have heard from the Minister of social development that their front line is oversubscribed, it begs the question of whether the Government is completely out of touch with the front line, which is supposed to be helping individuals rather than punishing them, as the Government is doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI acknowledge that this bill has another component around automated decision-making. I think the Government has been not very transparent when it comes to its intentions to use automated decision-making. We had the Social Security Amendment Act passed not that long ago, which broadened the use of automated decision-making. This, in laymen\u2019s terms, is actually the ability for computer systems to be, effectively, making decisions instead of the front line, which could have more discretion in its use of decisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI can see the potential for that to lead to more accurate decision-making, but I do think the Government is pushing this in the context of under-resourcing the front line and the humans who can then support people in forming those connections to assist them, not just in calculating their eligibility for things like the accommodation supplement but other support systems, as well. Effectively, what the Government is doing is passing the support systems that exist from the Ministry of Social Development\u2014away from human interactions\u2014on to computers, on to automated systems, which then strips away the more tailored support we can provide to people who are facing housing insecurity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EIf we look at the analysis from MSD, what we can also find is the average increase in the cost of living that people affected by this bill will face, and this is on page 21 of the supplementary analysis report. What we can see around the financial impacts of the policy changes is that, for example, somebody who has one boarder will see an increase in the cost of living of $92 a week, somebody who has two boarders will see an increase of $148 a week, and somebody who has three boarders is facing an additional $202 a week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t think that this is a Government that is seriously addressing the cost of living crisis, and they\u2019re pushing in legislation that will literally make it worse for the almost 8,000 people that this bill is estimated to be affecting. If anything, what it will do is it will incentivise people to instead seek temporary accommodation, or to be in emergency housing, if they\u2019re lucky\u2014because we have seen reports of our social services saying that most people are being rejected from emergency housing\u2014and it will encourage people to not disclose that they have boarders. This is in the report itself, and I think people will be waking up and realising that there will be creative ways, unfortunately, that they will use to get around this bill, effectively, to not disclose who are the people they\u2019ve been living with in order to get away with actually not facing, for example, in some cases, an additional $202 a week in accommodation costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EParticularly for those that received income-related rent subsidies, this will push them and their households to be, effectively, receiving market rate rents. For example, right now, if you\u2019re living in a K\u0101inga Ora home and you receive the income-related rent subsidy, you could be paying just 25\u00A0percent of your income on rent. That\u2019s amazing\u2014that\u2019s something that I actually hope one day we can achieve for absolutely everyone. But, instead, people could be subjected to market rates. This is because once you\u2019re deemed to be receiving a specific amount of income, you lose that subsidy. If you have a K\u0101inga Ora home in a neighbourhood where the market rate rents are really high, that hike could push you out of your home and into the streets. At a time when we\u2019re seeing record homelessness and people doing it rough, it feels callous, cruel, and intellectually dishonest for a Government to be saying that they\u2019re addressing the cost of living crisis, and yet pushing through a bill that will do exactly the very opposite of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI hope that those members, when they start seeing the hardship they\u2019re creating, swallow their words of fairness and see the truth behind what this bill is promoting, which is actually an increase in poverty, an increase in inequality, an increase in homelessness, and people living in public and private rentals facing humungous increases in their living costs. We look forward to the committee of the whole House stage to scrutinise this bill, as it deserves, for the harm that the Government is causing for some of our most vulnerable communities out there in the community. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf65320836ae47c4915e3e0da35d2a74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf65320836ae47c4915e3e0da35d2a74\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Again, I\u2019ll just clarify what this bill does. There\u2019s one room in a house\u2014currently, the Government, under the existing law, will subsidise that room via the landowner or the person who was renting the house, and then they\u2019ll also subsidise the boarder who\u2019s using that room. So it\u2019s subsidised twice. This changes that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that respects and fights for the workers of New Zealand, unlike those members opposite. That Opposition, in the last Government, took debt from $57\u00A0billion to $175\u00A0billion, and they brought this country to a very difficult place. We are fixing this. We respect the money that taxpayers earn. We want to help people. We want to give them a hand up, got a handout.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EI know what poverty tastes like, smells like, and looks like, unlike those champagne socialists on the other side. We want to help New Zealanders. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u00221b4024ac12b74c9b889a1f6011b02f98\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b4024ac12b74c9b889a1f6011b02f98\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s interesting to hear the sanctimony come from the other side in the situation because earlier I was thinking about one of the heckles, which was, \u201CThere\u2019s no magic money tree.\u201D I agree there is no magic money tree. But last year, this Government got into Parliament saying it would give people tax cuts. It could not afford them. There was no magic money tree. As a result, now people like women in this country who expected to get equal pay, and people like the people impacted in this piece of legislation, they are the people who will pay the price because there was no magic money tree.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EBefore anybody suggests that people on this side of the House do not understand poverty, I would like to suggest that if this had been to a select committee, if people had been able to come to Parliament and tell their story and say how this piece of legislation was going to affect them, then the Government would be in a position where they might be able to say they listened. But right now, the Government has insulated itself from that process because we are in a bubble today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWe are not hearing from the people this will hurt, and the people out there are hurting. This Government promised it was going to address the needs of people in a cost of living crisis. It said, \u201CWe\u2019re going to give you a tax cut.\u201D Those people have received so little. Today, a lot of those people, they lose $132. Now, that\u2019s not an insignificant amount of money for anyone. If you\u2019re on the kind of money that these families are on, that is a huge amount of money. That kind of disruption to people\u2019s lives causes incredible harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ENow, some of the people that have picked up in this change\u2014and I remind the House, this is something that was OK to do. Nobody snuck around. They\u2019ve actually been able to have a boarder, to have up to two boarders and to be able to keep that money. That\u2019s been OK. But tomorrow it\u2019s not going to be OK any more. What is going to happen when that happens is the impact of not having that money in our poorest families is going to ripple through our society. It\u2019s going to cause problems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s talk about some of the people who are impacted by this piece of legislation. I\u2019m sure there will be comments from people who are specialist portfolio holders on this later, but right now I just want to talk about two of them. The first group that I want to talk about is the elderly. We have more and more elderly who rely on an accommodation supplement in their older years. Those people will be impacted over this. There\u2019s actually a lot of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThen we\u2019ve got the youth issue, which is raised in the report which my colleague from the Greens also talked about. It\u2019s this one here, the supplementary analysis report. It\u2019s raised specifically by impartial people who say there\u2019s a problem here because what happens with youth is they find that they need to board quite often, and they find it extremely hard to find other accommodation because there\u2019s a discrimination that occurs with youth. So you\u2019ve got a shrinking issue with boarding being available and it\u2019s going to have huge impact on youth and you\u2019re cutting that out from them. They\u2019re cutting that option out because people will no longer take boarders. It talks about the impact on that group. It\u2019s particularly worrying. They are not alone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EIt talks about the impact on M\u0101ori, and it talks about the impact on Pacific peoples as particularly extreme. These are all the groups we know are at our lowest socio-economic levels. They are the ones that need the helping hand. That\u2019s what I would say to my colleague on the other side of the House who suggests that we know nothing about poverty and that people just need a hand up. What\u2019s a hand up? This was a hand up. This was a capacity that people had to take in a boarder or two and be able to keep the money with the Government\u2019s consent. That was what was going on and not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258641d6e8afe4c168443b9cf72e02bac\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: Your Government\u2019s consent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b6afb7df67741ddbbfd97b604a9ac0e\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: No. The heckler suggests that in this case it was something that the Labour Government had done. That is just not accurate. This has been going since 1992. Every Government since has come down on the side of this being still a good idea. When you\u2019re earning a pitiful amount, when you actually don\u2019t have enough, even though you\u2019re working, and you need an accommodation supplement, or you\u2019re in a situation where you\u2019re on a benefit\u2014maybe you\u2019re disabled, maybe you\u2019re older, maybe you are in those groups\u2014then you actually need a helping hand, and this was one. It was one where if you decided to get a boarder or two, then you were OK. You could keep the money. It\u2019s not a lot of money, let\u2019s face it, but it\u2019s something. So today what we do is we absolutely rip the guts out of those families. Let\u2019s just face it: $132. That\u2019s what\u2019s going to happen, $132 less for a lot of those families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to just look at the kinds of numbers we are talking about because, again, the supplementary analysis report says that there are 8,200 households who have a boarder in this position, and that 7,000 of those households will have a reduction, the average reduction being $100. The Government today takes $100 off 7,000 New Zealand families just for accommodation supplement. Then in addition to that, you\u2019ve got people who have got income-related rent\u20146,200 of them will lose $132 a week. It\u2019s a lot of money. Let\u2019s just take that and think about it for a second.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWhat we are told is that this will save money for the Government. According to the projections, it will save\u2014and there are real question marks about the projections in the independent analysis\u2014about $150 million over four years. That\u2019s the possible saving. But the question marks over that money are extremely real. It\u2019s not just wishful thinking. It\u2019s not the Opposition making it up. The question marks are in that report. The question marks are based on things like we don\u2019t actually know how many people there are out there with these situations, so we\u2019re actually guessing. We don\u2019t know what they\u2019re going to do when they can\u2019t receive this money and they\u2019re going to be punished in this way. They might stop having boarders. They might disappear from that system. They might not report them. All those things mean that there\u2019s a huge question mark about whether the Government will save that kind of money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ENow, I just want to turn for the last little part of my speech to the issue of the automated decision-making system. That is part and parcel of this. We will\u2014after this bill\u2014face another bill in urgency, which is about that too. That\u2019s about people having to turn up, and they\u2019re going to have to turn up once a year to do a review of their benefit. The sole reason for that is because you can\u2019t find out how many boarders there are unless you make people turn up for a review. A whole lot of people who are permanently injured, for example, they\u2019re going to have to turn up for a review so that the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) can gather the information and match it. That\u2019s how they\u2019re going to get that information. So we have another whole piece of legislation which relates to this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EPart of what\u2019s going on in both pieces of the Acts that are before us today is that we are looking at an automated system, because the MSD, when they looked at the system, they just couldn\u2019t do it with people. They didn\u2019t have the staff. That\u2019s because we\u2019ve cut huge amounts of staff everywhere we can and so MSD just couldn\u2019t do this, so we\u2019ve moved to an automated system. That\u2019s what we\u2019ve done in this country. I take the point of my colleague that it\u2019s not us; it\u2019s the Government that\u2019s done it. I think it\u2019s really important that it is understood that that\u2019s what has happened in this country. We simply don\u2019t have the staff to do this and so now we\u2019re bringing in an impersonal system to do it instead. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022 data-id=\u00226e51c20bd2a949449e269ee5dfc68cdf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e51c20bd2a949449e269ee5dfc68cdf\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This bill is an effort by a fiscally prudent and responsible Government to look at the situation where a person who receives boarder payments himself applies for housing subsidies, to take that situation into consideration when assessing his entitlement to and the rate of the housing subsidy that he himself is applying for. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022d890958837ff43b8b032320411029893\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d890958837ff43b8b032320411029893\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E This is a Government that describes itself as fiscally prudent. Is it fiscally prudent to push thousands of young New Zealanders into debt? This is a Budget which has penny-pinched out of young people\u2019s pockets; 18- to 19-year-olds are not only being cut off from the emergency benefit, which will now be means tested\u2014and when I say emergency benefit, I mean homelessness, urgent dental work; urgent things that young people need and for which they will now be asked whether their parents can help them with. Then, further, this bill makes a change to make it harder for any adults in their lives who will stand up for them\u2014to have them living in their homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThis is a bill which will see youth homelessness rising in the middle of a youth homelessness crisis. If this Government cared about young people, it would make the kinds of changes that we need in order to see young people properly supported. But what does it do instead? It makes it harder for young people to access emergency accommodation. It makes it harder for young people to access emergency benefits. And it makes it harder for them to live in the homes with the adults who care for them\u2014$202 for a mum with adult children, three of them living in her home. That\u2019s how much it will cost her now to have those adult children living with her every week. This is taking money out of the pockets of people who can least afford it\u20147,000 households.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EYou know why this hasn\u2019t been a policy choice that has been made by prior National Governments? Because, under the leadership of John Key and Bill English, it didn\u2019t seem like a good idea to take 7,000 of the lowest income and most vulnerable households and make $150 million back for the Government. This pushes young people into debt. It pushes working families into further debt. It might be debt off the Government\u2019s book, but it certainly is a debt off New Zealanders\u2019 books.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWhen we think about the intergenerational cost of this, we have to ask ourselves: is this a useful intervention in the housing market, with a Government that is focused, it says, on increasing supply of housing? Absolutely not. It is a change which will result in a higher demand for housing because we will have the most vulnerable people competing even harder for the few rentals that are available now in the kind of price range that they can afford. What will that do? It will drive up the price of rentals for these people. Young people will experience further competition and further increases in the rents they pay because the number of rentals available to them will be lower. Or is that not a fiscal risk that the Government has identified? Actually, what will happen is these young people will be faced with not being able to get accommodation at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that has overseen the giving out of grants for tents; overseen more and more people sleeping in their cars down at the local park. Every electorate MP in this House will have seen it. Everyone will know that homelessness in our town centres is growing and the people who are experiencing that homelessness are young. This is not like the global financial crisis. This is not like the crises that we have been through as a country in my lifetime, where those people living in their cars were older people. This is people who are 18, 19, and 20.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI met with a young woman in my electorate recently. Her name is KJ. For the first time this year, she slept at a bus shelter. She is 16 years old. She should be able to access the emergency benefit without having any reference to her parents. But this Government has taken that support away from her and it will now be means tested with a reference to her parents\u2019 incomes. This callous change in this bill means that it will be harder for her to board because her supplements will be counted against the other supplements in her house. The official advice in this paper recognises that it will hurt people like her the most; that marginalised groups, young people, and M\u0101ori and Pasifika will be most impacted by this change; that the people who can least afford it will be punished for these savings to be made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThis is a Government which has made all the wrong choices and they are on display in this bill. This affects the working people who elected them. This affects everyone in our communities. This affects 54,000 young people who receive the accommodation supplement. It is the wrong change and it is cruel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u002260cac533e0a04838b00ea2bd9fdab7d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260cac533e0a04838b00ea2bd9fdab7d0\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This bill is simply making some minor changes that bring in fairness to a system that seems strange that it\u2019s been allowed to exist for the last 30-odd years. This has been a situation where, under the last Government, they actually changed some of those thresholds for accommodation subsidies as well, so that people could use that money to pay for their mortgages. This only is affecting those people who both get an accommodation supplement and have boarders who are also getting an accommodation supplement. This is not for the workers out there who have spare rooms, who are also paying for their rent and paying for their mortgages, paying for all of their costs; those people hadn\u2019t been getting assistance and subsidies from the Government. This is a clearing, making it a much more fair system. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u002250d6aac139a94830852c9380e04d95c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250d6aac139a94830852c9380e04d95c0\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Let\u2019s make no bones about this. This is a cold, callous, and cruel bill by a cold Government that is taking New Zealand backwards, by punching down on those who can least afford it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205af62fa595b4104b460a9f30465009f\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: I can see the hot air rising\u2014hot air rising!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227408a761b0ad42a5887dbcd65460aea2\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: And this is part of their pattern. We\u2019ve seen it in their \u201Causterity Budget\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fb4e47f89234ddabf0ad32e0d62c8fe\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0f5e2dc327e40c6b08dfcb6e75b71c9\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve seen it because they\u2019ve taken money away from women\u2019s pay by cancelling 33 active pay equity claims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225076d71b98a74cb89716f3d3312659ee\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: Better take some of those math lessons!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0ac662c4af148b9a8ffb810953535a3\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: They don\u2019t like that one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1988eef676045a4afbfdad1c80ac364\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: No, they don\u2019t like that one, do they, Shanan, because there\u2019s a lot of chat coming from Joseph Mooney, who\u2019s been laughing throughout this particular debate, when we talk about some of the most vulnerable in New Zealand, who are being made worse off by his Government and his vote directly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EWhat are they taking away? KiwiSaver contributions. They\u2019re taking away money from 61,000 families through their \u201Causterity Budget\u201D\u201461,000 families who will now be worse off by an average of $43 per fortnight. Unemployment, scheduled to rise. Nobody can find the families they promised the $250 per fortnight to during their campaign\u2014a campaign on reducing the cost of living for New Zealanders. What did their leaders say? \u201CEveryone\u2019s going to get $250 a fortnight!\u201D\u2014it was like Oprah on the campaign trail. Who gets it now? Hardly anyone. The only increase that some families are getting: $7 a week. That\u2019s what this Government is crowing about. This bill takes us backwards even more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ENow, what have we heard from members opposite? The Minister for Social Development and Employment said that this will only impact the boarder. Who are these boarders? Single mothers, young people, disabled people. The person who\u2019s got the boarders, that\u2019s what the Minister said. They\u2019re often disabled people. And this is the Minister for Disability Issues as well who\u2019s punching down again on disabled people. Minister, read the advice in your own papers, because Whaikaha themselves have said that this is a bad idea. Whaikaha themselves have said that disabled people have limited options and many of them rely on boarding arrangements with their caregivers. So who is being penalised by this? Disabled people, young people, old people, Pacific people. They are all going to be worse off on average by $100; those in social housing, on average by $132 a week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ESo 51,459 people on a supported living payment also receive the accommodation supplement. There are, in addition to that, 15,6245 people on supported living payments who are also in social housing. All of them, potentially, could be impacted by this. We don\u2019t know a huge amount of detail, though, because they\u2019re rushing this through under urgency and their own analysis from their officials tell us that there\u2019s been limited time to engage with people who would be\u2014but that, again, seems to be typical of this Government, as we\u2019ve seen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EWhat are we going to see? Now, again, members opposite have stood up and said, \u201CThis is just fixing a discrepancy.\u201D They\u2019ve said they\u2019re being fiscally prudent by taking $150 million off those who can least afford it. They\u2019ve said, \u201CThis is a common-sense fix and it\u2019s fair.\u201D Fair for whom? Who are the people? What was this policy intended for back in 1992? It was intended to encourage those in State housing to be able to use their space for others who might need assistance when it comes to housing and it was also intended to ensure that they could offset their costs. This isn\u2019t some sort of a rort that\u2019s been happening for 30-odd years; it\u2019s been an incentive to ensure that people have a roof over their heads and that people can actually meet the costs of living. That is what this cold, callous, cruel Government is stripping away from those who can least afford it. It was an incentive that is taken away. Oh, now they\u2019re all looking down\u2014now they\u2019re all looking down. Why? Suddenly it\u2019s not an issue any more for you. Oh, well, there they are laughing again. Well, there we go. Anyway, $100 to $132 a week from people cannot afford it. That is their fiscal prudence, unfortunately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EWhat happens then? The analysis of this bill tells us that it\u2019s likely to lead to increasing homelessness because, if you\u2019re going to be penalised for opening up your home and taking on a couple of boarders\u2014and that\u2019s why it wasn\u2019t the first and second boarder that was caught up in the change; it was only third boarder onwards. Now, what they\u2019re doing is ensuring that they\u2019re penalised for taking on anyone as a boarder, when boarding costs are meant to help offset the living costs of the person who\u2019s taking them on. But now, they will be penalised for it. Do they then think that people who can\u2019t afford it will then take on boarders? No. Where are they going to go? Some might say emergency housing and emergency accommodation. And yet, this Government has cut $1 billion from the emergency housing budget through their \u201Causterity Budget\u201D, which is why we\u2019re all here today, on the false pretence that homelessness, that demand for housing, is reducing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EIs it reducing? Perhaps, because they\u2019re chucking everyone out because they don\u2019t want to pay for emergency housing. So what are we actually seeing here? People who are being squeezed from every which direction, cost of living increasing, unemployment on the rise. Members opposite laughing again when we talk about those in hardship who are going to be doing it even tougher because of decisions that each one of their gloating faces has voted for. Make no mistake: when you stand up at events and at your electorates and you crow about the work that you\u2019ve done, what are they doing? Mocking us and laughing, because\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1d0425973414e6bbd610439e26db744\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: We stand up for workers, unlike those socialists.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269a040b887014f4190018c1ccb5b9cc1\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: You stand up for workers. Who do you think you\u2019re slamming down on through this legislation and every other thing that you\u2019ve done in your \u201Causterity Budget\u201D? Many of them, newsflash, are working. But they have to work multiple jobs because of the decisions you\u2019ve made, because they cannot make ends meet. And yet you laugh. Shocking. Absolutely shameless behaviour from this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI never thought that I\u2019d be standing here, thinking that previous National Governments past were actually better than this lot. But this is a particular breed of cold callousness that we\u2019ve seen crowing from that side of the House. Homelessness is increasing at unprecedented levels. We\u2019ve seen that before, because when you increase cost of living and you do nothing to reduce that, and then you clamp down on the paltry support that you actually give people, and then you chuck them out of housing and you cut money for emergency housing, where will people go?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b4827c3ad2d4235a35c21cccd94b1fe\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: How come kids aren\u2019t sleeping in cars any more? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229289be8719894f439dae680c2b64d46d\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: Tents and cars, Joseph Mooney\u2014that\u2019s exactly what they\u2019re doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EYou can yell at me from the other side of the House. I can\u2019t even hear what you\u2019re saying, by the way, but I can see the smugness on your face. But this is what you\u2019re doing. You are actually allowing grants for people to live in tents and in cars. I hope you\u2019re proud of that. I hope this Government\u2019s proud of that. Because, on this side of the House, we\u2019re not. Increasingly people outside are not either. You might dress up your \u201Causterity Budget\u201D as being fiscally prudent. Taking money off the lowest-paid women who are underpaid and undervalued, and you\u2019re underpaying them and undervaluing them even more. You might be pleased with that, but increasingly people see through your window dressing of fiscal prudence, and they see it for what it is: austerity measures, getting worse with bills like this\u2014bills that make it even harder for those who are struggling and doing the work that you undervalue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that we cannot support, because while they try to say that it\u2019s just a little tweak that makes things fairer, it absolutely does not. So $100 for people who are getting a couple of hundred a week makes a massive difference. It may not for members opposite, and that may be why they\u2019re laughing and crowing, but they\u2019ve lost touch with reality. I suggest that members opposite actually get out there and talk to people whose lives they\u2019re making worse under urgency, all stages, with bills that cannot be properly scrutinised, that don\u2019t have the analysis that they need because they\u2019re rushing it through and wanting to bring it in by next year. That is absolutely shocking. We do not commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022 data-id=\u00221f1cc80fc2344f4d9a400d8fd9f55b3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f1cc80fc2344f4d9a400d8fd9f55b3a\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is great to be the final speaker of the second reading of this, the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill. We are a fiscally responsible Government, and we are focused on making things fair so that people don\u2019t double-dip, effectively. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d6635d5a13c9405bb4e5b2e3f9384de2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000837\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c72f9381ecb54064bd69b61fc3d74499\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c72f9381ecb54064bd69b61fc3d74499\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is set down for committee stage immediately. I declare the House in committee for consideration of the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225d0fdc93949440a48b1a3df0a15fed08\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225a1a2b1fc32f4dfd9a780c5c337afbfc\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to Social Security Act 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022296a9efb3aae4e0db4877589b5305c0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022296a9efb3aae4e0db4877589b5305c0c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill. Members, we come first to Part 1. This is the debate on clauses 3 to 8\u2014\u201CAmendments to Social Security Act 2018\u201D\u2014and Schedule 1. The question is that Part 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022da880122174b4ab29fdadf874afae9dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da880122174b4ab29fdadf874afae9dd\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am standing up to speak in the committee stage of this bill to put some arguments as to why each section, each part, each clause of this bill should not be voted for by this committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EIt is important that we start with a little bit of context here. The accommodation supplement is calculated based on your individual circumstances including income, assets, accommodation costs, family situation, and where you live. Up until the proposal today, those that have been eligible for the accommodation supplement have been able to take boarders. Not a huge amount can be paid as part of that boarding fee, but they have been able to take boarders and it hasn\u2019t impacted their ability to get access to the accommodation supplement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWe are going to have to have some things clarified in this committee by the Minister for Social Development and Employment because, even during the interjections from the other side, we have heard claims that are simply incorrect. We do not support this going ahead. We need to make sure that we have a shared understanding here in the committee that board paid to those who are receiving the accommodation supplement isn\u2019t something that is adding to the wealth of those that may be the head tenant. It is actually supporting them with paying utilities\u2014the power, the internet, the water, and any other costs that come with having a home. Often, also, it is used to help and assist with paying for food. And what we know is, actually, when people consolidate their money in that kind of way, it can help alleviate the pressure that many people are facing in terms of the cost of living challenges that they\u2019re facing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThis bill is attempting to take that away from some of the poorest New Zealanders. We\u2019ve heard arguments from the other side that it makes the system fairer. We\u2019re talking about working New Zealanders and beneficiaries who earn the lowest incomes in this country and were trying to get by by sharing expenses with boarders who were paying a small fee towards costs and living with them. They talk about fairness of the system, and I\u2019m going to put to the Minister: in terms of the broader context around housing and the Government\u2019s agenda, why was this unfair but it\u2019s not unfair to give $2.9 billion worth of tax breaks to landlords? Why is this unfair and yet you can own multiple properties and not have to pay any taxes on them when you sell them? Why is it that the place that the Government are attempting to get any money back from on housing is from the poorest working\u2014and I do say \u201Cworking\u201D because Mr Mooney over there was saying that we\u2019re protecting the beneficiaries. There are a large number of people who get the accommodation supplement who are actually working. Why is it appropriate that the Government is trying to get money out of the poorest New Zealanders, in the space of housing, and not the others that I mentioned earlier?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI think on that point, for context, particularly given that this has been brought to the House in urgency, it would be good to know from the Minister how many are receiving the accommodation supplement that are actually working, as opposed to those that are on benefit. Not that we are judging those on benefit but\u2014certainly, the other side is\u2014we need to be having arguments based on fact and so we need to make sure that we are having discussions that are actually informed by evidence. That certainly hasn\u2019t come through from the first and second readings from Government, nor from the interjections that they have put forward when the Opposition members have been speaking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really concerned about whether or not the Minister has received any advice about whether this will drive people into further poverty, given that they\u2019ll no longer be able to get that little bit of support to help them with the everyday costs of running a household. I\u2019m also really concerned and would like to ask the Minister whether or not she received any advice on the implications for those that have taken up boarding opportunities in these situations where someone may have been getting the accommodation supplement. We\u2019re worried, on this side of the Chamber, that, actually, this change in policy could lead to higher levels of homelessness, as we\u2019ve seen with their policy change around emergency accommodation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThese are the types of questions that I would expect very clear answers from the Minister, particularly given the fact that she saw this as being so integral to, perhaps, paying part of the Budget, that she\u2019s brought this bill to the House today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002224732025e37646e887725c46eee20d41\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224732025e37646e887725c46eee20d41\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment): \u003C/span\u003EIn this early stage, I want to just make sure that there\u2019s some accuracies for this debate. This piece of legislation does not stop anyone from taking in boarders or charging someone who boards with them; it just means that boarder number one and boarder two are treated in the same way that boarders three, four, and five are. It is about equity and it also making sure that those who are boarders, where they are getting an accommodation supplement it means that we are not paying\u2014or taxpayers are not paying\u2014the housing supplement twice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not going to speak on matters that are clearly outside the bill. This is a very narrow bill. It talks about boarders and the instance there is no impact on the person who is the boarder, so I want to be clear about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022deff613424df48acade672a5bb0b6497\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022deff613424df48acade672a5bb0b6497\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Just reminding members, of course, that this context early on would be referring to the Part 1 sections early in the debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u00228e58b6033b41483dbffc0e73f036e466\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e58b6033b41483dbffc0e73f036e466\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, yeah. I read the bill. Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI wanted to look at clause 4, and I wanted to pick up on the fact, on clause 4\u2014I\u2019ve got quite a few questions, because we did not have a select committee stage and we also don\u2019t have a regulatory impact statement, which is deeply irresponsible of the Government. What we do have, as I mentioned in my second reading speech, is this document\u2014Including Boarders\u2019 Contributions in the Calculation of Housing Subsidies\u2014which does contain some analysis from the Ministry of Social Development (MSD). I will be using it particularly to refer to the new section\u00A065AAA that is inserted by clause 4 into the Social Security Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EDespite the Minister for Social Development and Employment\u2019s comments about how this is a narrow bill, the impact is quite deep. So I wanted to ask, first of all\u2014and we would have been able to do this in the select committee stage and pose these questions to both officials and the Minister\u2014whether the Minister agrees with the advice that the risks associated with the modified income-related rent calculation include increased hardship among social housing tenants if their income-related rent increases. Does she believe that this bill will lead to an increase in hardship for social housing tenants? I ask this as well because I note that there is no child impact assessment being done in this bill, and I know that the previous member, the Hon Carmel Sepuloni, asked about poverty more broadly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EBut in relationship to my question around whether this bill will increase hardship among social housing tenants as a result of the provisions in clause 4 of Part 1, as to whether she also at any point considered how many children could be pushed deeper into poverty as a result of this. I say this because in her second reading speech, my excellent colleague Kahurangi Carter was referencing the child poverty documents from the Budget. Those look like child poverty is stagnating, and potentially even increasing, in some areas. So I\u2019m curious to know as to whether she agrees with the analysis presented to her by MSD. If not, why not? If so, what made her continue pursuing this policy despite the clear analysis from her own ministry that \u201Cthere will be increased hardship\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve got some more questions on Part 1, particularly around the document that we\u2019ve got. It\u2019s literally the only analysis that we\u2019ve got. We haven\u2019t had the chance to hear from social housing tenants, people who board, around what this means for them. But I wanted to start off by testing that very simple analysis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThe second question, and I don\u2019t want to\u2014so I know the Chair previously advised me to not do too many questions in one round, to allow the Minister to answer. But the second question was as to whether also the Minister agrees with the analysis by MSD in relationship to whether the Government could be overestimating the savings being made by this bill. Does she think this analysis is correct? If so, where does she think that those overestimations could be made by the Government? I think Part\u00A01, and clause 4, particularly, are the best place to ask these questions, as this is where we\u2019re adding the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D, for example, and that in of itself is what then leads to a restriction on those people accessing the accommodation supplement and the income-related rent subsidy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EIf she does think that there was an overestimation of savings, where does she think those costs will be passed on? Does she agree with the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s advice that those costs could be passed on to, say, for example, hardship assistance or emergency housing or advances, which in turn could put people into further debt? If she does not agree with that advice from MSD around the overestimation of savings, why was she so confident, when she published her Budget documents, that there would be very specific figures when it came to the savings? And how did she come to that conclusion, despite MSD warning her that those figures could quite likely actually be wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ETo wrap up, my two simple questions are whether she agrees that there will be increased hardship among social housing tenants if their income-related rent increases, and whether she agrees with the analysis that the Government could have overestimated the savings that are being made in this piece of legislation. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef1c1ffd84f24dd5a02e1e3b88c1ee16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef1c1ffd84f24dd5a02e1e3b88c1ee16\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E This was a measure that was in Budget 2024. Like any Budget, there are estimates that are made in terms of what the cost might be or what savings might be. But as I said at the start, as I said in my first and second reading speeches, and as echoed by my colleagues, it is common sense that if you have one or two boarders, they are taken into account in the same way a third boarder is. And, as I\u2019ve said\u2014and I\u2019m not going to say it again\u2014boarders are not affected by this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce6a16ecf23f45d28dac44222d547384\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce6a16ecf23f45d28dac44222d547384\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The time has come for me to leave the Chair. The House will resume at 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 5.59 p.m. to 7.00 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022bfd2d6f7028a41b39e56215c9dc82344\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bfd2d6f7028a41b39e56215c9dc82344\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, before the dinner break, the committee was debating Part 1 of the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill. This is the debate on clauses 3 to 18\u2014\u201CAmendments to Social Security Act 2018\u201D\u2014and Schedule 1. The question again is that Part 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022d67ccefc87aa4ef9ab9ea147689f854f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d67ccefc87aa4ef9ab9ea147689f854f\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Before we went into the dinner break\u2014and I want to reiterate the fact that we did not have a select committee stage; we haven\u2019t heard from people affected by this, or any other agency. And the Minister for Social Development also hasn\u2019t presented and done robust analysis. What we do have, as I said, is this document. [Holds up supplementary analysis report titled Including Boarders\u2019 Contributions in the Calculation of Housing Subsidies] I don\u2019t believe that the Minister adequately engaged with my previous question. This in relationship to the supplementary analysis report, page 7, where the Ministry of Social Development said, and I quote, \u201CThe savings forecast as part of this proposal was not able to account for behavioural responses that may result from this policy,\u201D and then it also says that\u2014and this is what I want to focus my question on\u2014\u201CThis means that the savings from households where both the person receiving board and the boarder are receiving housing subsidies may be overestimated.\u201D Does she agree that the savings in this instance were overestimated by her Government? If not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EFollowing on from that, I\u2019m primarily focusing on the provisions in clause 4, but I\u2019m using this document because, basically, it addresses a lot of what clause 4 ends up doing. I also asked about whether she believes that people will be put into hardship as a result of this. I also want to now focus my attention on the issue around whether she believes that this bill has the potential, particularly because of the provisions in clause 4, to increase the amount of debt that people get into as a result of requiring advances. Did she forecast an increase in debt by people requiring advances in the form of rent arrears, for example, due to the provisions of this bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000866\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWe know that, due to the supplementary analysis, people will be paying quite a bit more money each week\u2014those affected by this bill; I\u2019ll go into that in more detail. But I did want to ask whether she did any forecasts or modelling, or whether she even considered it, about, for example, whether people would be needing more recoverable assistance. I think this is particularly important because in the Budget, we saw, basically, an end to the non-recoverable assistance when it came to rent arrears, which means that when people are getting into rent arrears as a result of increased rents due to increased housing costs as a result of this bill, now the only way they\u2019ll be able to get assistance for these rent arrears is through recoverable assistance. Did she make any modelling to account for that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000867\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EOne of the issues that I also wanted to test is whether she considered\u2014and I also want to note to the Chair, by the way, that she did not address anything in relationship to impacts on child poverty. I just want to put that on the table again because we did have the dinner break\u2014she did not mention child poverty at all and how this bill may or increase it or otherwise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EBut I want to move on to the issue around material hardship. There\u2019s three different measurements that we use when it comes to child poverty, and material hardship is one of those. That means children not having the bare essentials being met. I ask this because that has been increasing throughout the past few years, including under her tenure. The Minister hasn\u2019t explicitly engaged on the issue as to whether this bill risks increasing the level of material hardship in households. If she does think that this bill increases material hardship\u2014which is a different measure from child poverty\u2014I want to ask: which kinds of children does she think will be disproportionately impacted as a result of a potential increase in material hardship being driven as a result of this bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EJust to recap\u2014I want to make sure that she understands I am asking for her analysis of page 7 of the supplementary analysis report, paragraph 6, around the quote that says that the savings are likely to be \u201Coverestimated\u201D, and whether she agrees with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022 data-id=\u0022a09d5145d6cd40eeaae10d50c5093e9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a09d5145d6cd40eeaae10d50c5093e9d\u0022\u003EBENJAMIN DOYLE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te T\u016Bru. Following on from my colleague Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s questions regarding the supplementary analysis report from the Ministry of Social Development, I\u2019m looking at page 23, in regards to distributional impacts. I\u2019d like to understand, regarding the distributional impacts that are stated around\u2014M\u0101ori, Pasifika people, older people, disabled people, and young people are the groups that are covered there in the opening remarks at point 85. I\u2019m concerned that there hasn\u2019t been an analysis of the disproportionate impacts, also, on takat\u0101pui and rainbow communities. We know from census data\u2014the census actually released a specific report on this this year, actually, 2025, regarding the situation for housing for rainbow people. It stated that there\u2019s a higher prevalence of severe housing deprivation for LGBTQIA\u002B, takat\u0101pui populations, MVPFAFF\u2014that\u2019s Pasifika rainbow, and takat\u0101pui is M\u0101ori rainbow peoples\u2014in housing specifically.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003EMy question really is: is the Minister for Social Development and Employment confident that that community\u2014which is disproportionately impacted by housing stock limitations or expensive housing, inability to afford safe housing\u2014is not going to be impacted disproportionately? It\u2019s not stated in this analysis, but I\u2019d like to understand the advice that\u2019s been given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003EFurther to that, obviously rainbow communities are one group, but the intersection of M\u0101ori and rainbow has a compounding impact, so are the cultural needs of rainbow people who are M\u0101ori also being considered in this? We know that M\u0101ori and Pasifika communities often live in different housing structures in terms of the make-up and the demographics of those households, so the intersection of cultural identity and rainbow identities, and what the impacts for those communities are. We can see here that M\u0101ori, Pasifika, older, disabled people are accounted for. I just want to understand the advice around rainbow communities, and particularly M\u0101ori rainbow communities, and the impacts on those communities. [Members rise to seek call] And if\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa433de08e2d42e7ade4a58e2f8e51b5\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e515e9c788764dd6a735d5278c280b24\u0022\u003EBENJAMIN DOYLE\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry to my colleagues to my right. And if those considerations have been made, because\u2014[Interruption]\u2014thank you, yes. It\u2019s not covered in here, so what advice has been received around that? The census data is very clear, and I wonder, also, if the Minister has been made aware of that census data. It\u2019s quite shocking. We do see that, of a population grouping of 10,000 rainbow people aged 15-plus, 260 of that 10,000 experience severe housing deprivation. That\u2019s a figure that contrasts to a non-rainbow population which has only 212 people per 10,000, so significantly higher housing deprivation. I\u2019m worried that this amendment bill will drive that number and that gap further apart, and disproportionately affect rainbow and takat\u0101pui MVPFAFF communities more severely. So what advice has the Minister received around that, and do you have confidence that that won\u2019t increase that gap? Thank you very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022016a65d6ccb5429e9d0d7ce60913f0ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000875\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022016a65d6ccb5429e9d0d7ce60913f0ba\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. My colleagues are talking a lot about the supplementary analysis, and so it does seem appropriate to look at those issues that are coming up there. The issue about increased hardship is one I think you\u2019ve heard us, in the discussions we\u2019ve had, really emphasise. It\u2019s not possible from the report that\u2019s come up, the supplementary analysis report, to know just how bad that story is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000876\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EOther things in the report indicate that while the average amount that people will lose is about $100 a week\u2014and that\u2019s the people who have boarders, I think, just averaged out\u2014there is a discussion about how there is a high risk of bad publicity because there are some people who are very impacted by this change that is being made. I would like to know whether the Minister for Social Development and Employment was given examples of some of the worst impacts on people, because it\u2019s very hard for us to judge how much injustice there is if we don\u2019t have those examples shared.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000877\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to know whether the Minister considered the history of the legislation, in terms of the use of the term \u201Cboarder\u201D, because what the Minister has said is that there is an equality here between boarders and renters. But, in fact, those arrangements are quite different in kind. A renter has often got an agreement with somebody, and it is often a more business-like arrangement. A boarder is often an informal arrangement, and it\u2019s more likely to apply to youth in difficulties and adult children, etc. It\u2019s not the same basket of eggs at all, so I wondered whether the Minister had had any advice as to whether there was an initial reason why there was a difference between boarders and renters in that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000878\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EOne of the things I can see is that you may have a wayward child who\u2019s not particularly good at learning how to pay\u2014or may default on any board. We\u2019re catching out a whole lot of people in a situation which might be more risky for them. And before, that was possible; under the law today, that\u2019s possible because they\u2019re not going to be penalised for reaching out a helping hand to somebody in that situation. But tomorrow, they are going to be penalised for that. They\u2019re actually in quite big trouble if that money doesn\u2019t come through, because the Government is going to take it all away from them again. I\u2019d like to know what the story is in terms of that advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000879\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI can also see from that report, and I\u2019m talking about page 5 of the supplementary analysis report, that there was \u201Climited stakeholder engagement\u201D. I\u2019d like to know: what was that \u201Climited stakeholder engagement\u201D? Who was talked to when that report was put together, and who was not talked to? We\u2019re not having a select committee process, so not everybody will be talked to. I can also see a real issue of not knowing what the impact of this legislation is, and that surely is related to who was spoken to and who wasn\u2019t\u2014but also related to what is described in the report as \u201Cunintended consequences\u201D. You have a well-meaning piece of legislation where, perhaps, all the Government is saying it is doing is trying to find equity in a situation that\u2019s utterly undermined by the reality of what people will do when they\u2019re on the breadline, and, in fact, they\u2019re just not going to be able to make ends meet if they are in a situation where they have boarders and suddenly that is going to impact on the way that they arrange their lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000880\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThe report talks about what might happen in reality. And they all seem pretty reasonable things to suggest. We\u2019re not suggesting it\u2019s OK for people not to declare what is really going on, but that\u2019s likely to occur\u2014you know, one of the things that\u2019s likely to occur is that people just will not have boarders. So how much measurement has been done of that situation, because the Government says it\u2019s doing it to recover money and it\u2019s trying to create an equity. But is that actually going to happen or are we actually going to have a whole lot of people, as this report suggests, moved\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022b643a9cf9a0a4b1288156b41604fbf52\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000881\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b643a9cf9a0a4b1288156b41604fbf52\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I have three questions for the Minister for Social Development and Employment about the unintended consequences, and I want to thank the Minister for making available the supplementary analysis. This is a really helpful document as the committee of the whole House undertakes to examine what is happening here and the policy impacts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000882\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EMy three questions are about the impact on the housing market. It\u2019s really useful that we have two pieces of helpful analysis here, one about the increased demand for temporary housing and one piece about the impacts of homeownership\u2014and I will ask the Minister some questions there. But first I\u2019ll start with what\u2019s missing from here, which is the impact on rents. I want to ask the Minister whether she has received advice on the impacts on rents of this policy, particularly on the market for low-cost rentals and rentals that are appropriate for young people and for seniors, who might be impacted by this policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000883\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWe know that about 7,000 households are affected by this policy and that it may have the impact of tenants choosing not to take on boarders if they are in a rental situation, and the flow-on impact of that being for current boarders, who may find it difficult to find suitable affordable alternate accommodation. I\u2019m reading that from the supplementary analysis, because I don\u2019t want to confuse this situation with another answer that the Minister has given, where she has said clearly that it won\u2019t impact some sorts of boarders. But for this sort of situation, the official advice is that it will have an impact on some boarders who will find it harder to find accommodation if they need to move out of their current situation. My question there is: is there advice that\u2019s outside of this supplementary analysis about what will happen to the market for rents? That question is in the context of this Government having a focus on increasing supply of not only rental accommodation but housing and being very proud of that record. So I want to ask the Minister: has she considered how this will drive up demand for rents and what impact that increased demand on rents will have across the housing market as a whole?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000884\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThen I turn to the part of the advice about the increased demand for temporary housing. I want to ask the Minister about the number of people who are currently in social housing who may be affected by this policy\u2014so how many people might we expect that are in social housing now who may have a boarder living with them. I\u2019m particularly interested in young people in that situation. I would like to have a sense of the size of the number of young people who are already living in a supported living situation that is social housing but is with their family, who might then be in a situation where they might not have access to that housing and so will be looking for other even more resource-intensive mechanisms for their housing. Many young people who are not living with their family, who have been in these situations where either their housing is temporary, or who don\u2019t have clear parental help with their living situations really need a high level of intensive support, and that is intensive support which is costly to the taxpayer. So I want to understand the number of young people who might be affected by this and what impact that will have on the costs of the system, if there are more young people who are needing that level of intensive support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000885\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI know, for instance, Minister, that a very excellent housing provider for young people in South Auckland, M\u0101 Te Huruhuru, has recently taken on some more young people. That\u2019s something we can really celebrate on this side of the Chamber\u2014but around the Chamber too, for everyone who is interested in the housing of young people. But we also know that when they opened up that round for more tenants, they were inundated with applications. I think it was about 300 applicants of people who would qualify for the service, and so it is in no one\u2019s interest to see that number of people who are looking for supported accommodation continue to increase. We want solutions where these young people can be living with their families, and we want the incentive to be for their families, for their friends, and for other people in their community to be able to take them on without any barrier to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThe third question I have for the Minister is around the impacts on homeownership. The question here specifically, before I run out of time, is\u2014particularly on young homeowners, for whom there is also a lot of interest in this Chamber in incentivising them to save for their own home and then to get into their own home\u2014how many recent homeowners are claiming the accommodation supplement? There has been some confusion. I have heard speeches on the other side of this House that suggest that there is some misunderstanding about who is claiming the accommodation supplement. How many young people who have bought their first home\u2014we\u2019re really proud of them\u2014have sought the accommodation supplement, or how many of them have boarders who are also in that situation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00222880c51a0d7c4545b804440feae09cbc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000887\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222880c51a0d7c4545b804440feae09cbc\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, I\u2019m going to quickly go through a number of questions but I do want to just say that the whole intent behind this is around to ensure greater fairness for those who are accessing housing support, and not having a situation where both a person who is paying board is getting the accommodation supplement and the house they\u2019re living in, the person who\u2019s receiving the board, is also getting the accommodation supplement. So that\u2019s what the intent of this is driven at. We don\u2019t anticipate\u2014because there is such a small number of households affected\u2014that there will be any significant impact on the rental market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EClause 4 clearly lays out the definitions\u2014I would refer members to that. It clearly differentiates between what rent is and what board is, and the percentages that are allocated. So I\u2019m not going to read what\u2019s in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EIn terms of the impact on material hardship, the member Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March raises questions about that. I would just say very clearly in this committee: this is a Budget \u201824 measure, so it has been in the public domain for over 12 months. The intention behind Budget \u201824 was fiscal sustainability and alleviating pressure across hundreds of thousands of households who were dealing with the cost of living, and part of getting on top of the cost of living crisis for low and middle income households is to ensure that Government spending is sustainable. Where there is a duplication of a housing allowance, that\u2019s an obvious one to reduce, so it has been carefully considered. I reject that this is an injustice; this is actually a level playing field where we are not having two people in the same household claiming the accommodation supplement for the same house.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00228a3cb1a5d7924055bdfc56ee4c42078b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000890\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a3cb1a5d7924055bdfc56ee4c42078b\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m seeking clarification. The intent of this bill, I think, has been in the public domain for quite some time. But I do want to remind the Minister for Social Development and Employment that we are only just seeing this bill, in urgency, so we certainly haven\u2019t had the amount of time that that Minister would have had to scrutinise the level of detail that\u2019s in the legislation. So we\u2019re looking forward to a long and fulsome debate to get some clarification on particular points.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000891\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI want clarification on the point around who is affected here, because the Minister has stood up a number of times and said that it is to address the issue of fairness where two people are claiming the accommodation supplement for the same place, where one may be a boarder and the other one is the lead tenant. But I want clarification on situations where the lead tenant is claiming the accommodation supplement and the boarder is not. My reading of this is that the lead tenant is still going to have their accommodation supplement impacted by the income they receive through the boarder\u2019s board. And, that being the case, I do want the Minister just to clarify that, because I\u2019m looking at this, and I\u2019ve only seen it for the last couple of hours, and I can\u2019t quite take from what she\u2019s been saying and what I\u2019m reading that that is the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000892\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ESo, again, can the Minister clarify that the lead tenant, who has taken on a boarder and is getting the accommodation supplement, is going to potentially lose some of that accommodation supplement because they\u2019re taking board? It\u2019s not about two people; it\u2019s about that lead tenant taking on a boarder and receiving board, and that being perceived as part of their income. If she can clarify that, that would be good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EMy next question is around those that may be temporarily boarding, and I\u2019m thinking about scenarios that may not be formalised to the extent that perhaps the officials have considered. I\u2019m thinking of the sole mother with three children who has urgently left a domestic violence situation, has gone to a friend, and said, \u201CI need somewhere to stay. Can you please take me in? Please let me and my kids live in your garage. I can pay you board whilst I\u2019m here to cover the costs of me and my children being here, but I don\u2019t know how long that will be for.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000894\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ENow, do they need to then declare to the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) that they have taken on a family of boarders, and that that family is paying $100\u2014let\u2019s say a woman with three children\u2014towards the costs of staying there, which is a very minimal cost and is certainly not going to see the lead tenant rolling in cash? Are they going to have to declare that to MSD? And what will that mean administratively if the lead tenant has no idea how long this domestic violence victim, this friend who has been a survivor or victim of domestic violence with their children, is going to be staying in their home? What does disclosure to MSD in that situation look like? I reference that with particular attention to the section in the bill that discusses the definition of what a boarder is, and I\u2019m trying to work out whether those urgent temporary situations will be considered boarding situations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000895\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI can think of other situations: someone is homeless, they are unable to access emergency housing, and they say to a friend, \u201CPlease take me in. Let me stay in your garage with my children. I\u2019ll give you a little bit of cash to help with the costs of electricity and water, and perhaps even food, until I get on my feet. But I don\u2019t know how long that will be for.\u201D Does the lead tenant need to declare that to MSD? How is that accounted for? Does the Minister think that the perception in the bill that defines what a boarder is covers those particular scenarios, and, if so, can she please speak to that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002259400cd5dc5f4fe88981caaf5745df51\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259400cd5dc5f4fe88981caaf5745df51\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, the definition of a boarder is really clear in terms of\u2014when someone pays board, they are not paying purely for the room. That\u2019s why it\u2019s calculated at 62 percent. What we do want to do is ensure that when the accommodation supplement or the income-related rent is calculated, it is based on the information of people who are living either permanently or temporarily in that household to determine whether the person is eligible for the accommodation supplement and at what rate. That is what\u2019s fair to taxpayers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000897\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ENo one begrudges paying the accommodation supplement or income-related rent or whatever support is required, but it should be on the current information, and it\u2019s very normal practice for someone who is receiving support\u2014in this case, the accommodation supplement\u2014to advise the Ministry of Social Development and Employment when their circumstances change. The other thing that I would say, again, is that currently, before this law passes, only the third boarder or fourth boarder is considered. We\u2019re just saying that, actually, it is common sense that any income from the first boarder or the second boarder should be taken into account in determining someone\u2019s eligibility for financial assistance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022cac9d4c897f842e38e438380ecef48f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000898\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cac9d4c897f842e38e438380ecef48f5\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I just need to follow up, because the Minister for Social Development and Employment has said the section in the bill about what defines a boarder is clear, but there\u2019s no time frame or period of time that the person needs to be residing within that household and paying that board for it to then be deemed that that person is a boarder. Is the Minister seriously telling me that if a woman with her three children who has left a serious domestic violence situation and goes to a friend and says, \u201CI need to stay for three days, four days, a week\u2014I can give you a little bit of money. Please let me stay here.\u201D, that lead tenant who\u2019s getting the accommodation supplement is going to have to go to the Ministry of Social Development (MSD), make an appointment or ring them up, and say, \u201CI need to declare I have a boarder for three days who is paying $30 a night, and you need to take that into consideration, MSD, and deduct that from my accommodation supplement.\u201D? There is no time frame for what constitutes what is a boarder. Is the Minister seriously telling me that if that woman with her three children pays $20 a night to the person who gets the accommodation supplement, that person is going to have to declare it to MSD?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022 data-id=\u0022acde6012901e4e65b7a7c2a9f6ced295\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000899\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acde6012901e4e65b7a7c2a9f6ced295\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It is important that we really scrutinise this bill because it is coming through under urgency. We\u2019re looking at Part 1 as a whole, and I think it\u2019s really important that we look at the effects that this will have on disabled people. We\u2019re in quite an interesting scenario where the Minister that we are asking these questions of today, the Minister for Social Development and Employment, is also the Minister for Disability Issues. I think that she will have a lot more insight into this, so I\u2019m really looking forward to hearing her answers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000900\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EI am interested to know why the Minister didn\u2019t seek advice from the Ministry of Disabled People, from Whaikaha, around the effects that this will have on disabled people. Hopefully, the Minister can elaborate a little bit more just from their own role as the Minister, as to what she thinks are the effects that this bill will have on disabled people. One of the scenarios that comes to mind is when a disabled person is living in a K\u0101inga Ora home. Often, what happens is to make ends meet, to be able to pay the bills, to be able to participate in community, they\u2019re actually having boarders live with them. And more than not, those people who are boarders are actually their support people. This is invaluable because, yes, support people are doing a job, but how amazing is it to actually build that community and have that disabled person be able to share the load and also support their support worker? That\u2019s building community and that is making sure that our disabled people can\u2014like, we know one of the biggest things that they\u2019re facing is isolation. And so actually having the support person there, like, why would we punish that? I\u2019m really interested to know what thoughts and what advice the Minister has on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000901\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EJust looking here at the Including Boarders\u2019 Contributions in the Calculation of Housing Subsidies: Supplementary Analysis Report that has come from the Ministry of Social Development, the section that is distributional impacts, which is, you know, talking about where one different parts of society may be impacted more than others. There is a section here on disabled people, and this is on page 24. There\u2019s some really concerning numbers in here. In section 94, it says the number of disabled people who receive housing subsidies is difficult to ascertain. However, 51,459 supported living payment recipients also receive the accommodation supplement and 18,486 receive that temporary additional support. And furthermore, to that there are 15,624 supported living payment recipients who are also social housing tenants. We know how difficult it is for disabled people to have adequate housing. Accessibility is, and I know that the Government\u2014this has been on the agenda\u2014is focused on accessibility, like we all should be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000902\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EOne of the other things we know in New Zealand is that our dirty little secret is that having a disability is a pathway to poverty and prison. So it would be really good if the Minister could elaborate more on what she thinks the effects of this bill will be on disabled people. This report also says that disabled people are likely to be disproportionately impacted by the proposed changes because many disabled people live with their support person who pays board. So thank you. I\u2019d love to hear the answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u002299133541ca8849de8c33bb00c1b83679\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000903\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299133541ca8849de8c33bb00c1b83679\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Thank you, Minister. Even though I\u2019ve heard some parts of answers, I just wanted to impress again, into this space, starting with recognising the fact that in our context\u2014particularly a M\u0101ori context, but not only M\u0101ori, Pasifika\u2014there is no such thing as a standard nuclear family. So the intergenerational way of living is the way in which we thrive, flourish, and get on with our good lives. In that regard, how well is that appreciated in the analysis and therefore in the practice? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000904\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve heard some responses to the boarder/boarding/housing words. But again, inside that definition, does it truly understand the intergenerational communal living idea\u2014and in practice? I wouldn\u2019t mind just getting more of a sense of confidence that that\u2019s understood in this work. I don\u2019t have any confidence currently in this work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000905\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThen I would like some thinking or response, because it concerns us, around this \u201Cunintentional\u201D or \u201Cunintended\u201D\u2014and it\u2019s always said with such casual ease. It\u2019s scary because \u201Cunintended\u201D can equal devastation, more vulnerability, but it\u2019s ticked off as, \u201CWell, it\u2019s an unintended consequence\u201D\u2014which equals \u201COops\u201D, and that is a dangerous situation. In terms of the classification of tamariki or mokopuna that might well be living with their kaum\u0101tua and all of those good things that come with extended wh\u0101nau, how does this, in practice, keep those ideas safe, good, and healthy for wh\u0101nau M\u0101ori? And what, in the end, are the mechanisms in place to ensure that these new definitions are not used to unfairly reduce support for M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000906\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThese are some of my questions. I\u2019d be keen to hear it in more confidence. Thank you, Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00228d01ae5cb873438aa19c6162c94e77f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000907\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d01ae5cb873438aa19c6162c94e77f7\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E There have been a couple of comments and questions around the relationships of those in a household. The bill is agnostic. Whether it is a caregiver, a disabled person, family member, extended family, same-sex relationship or not\u2014the bill is agnostic about all of that. It is simply about if there is one boarder, and the boarder is paying board to the person who is running the household, that\u2019s what triggers this and the consideration of the accommodation supplement and the housing assistance that\u2019s paid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u00225a3864a4e1f848d1b1071a3acb5b873b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a3864a4e1f848d1b1071a3acb5b873b\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I know that I can\u2019t force an answer that I like from the Minister for Social Development and Employment, but it would be great to get some sort of engagement on the issue around whether she agrees that the savings were overestimated, as per page 7 of the analysis by the Ministry of Social Development (MSD).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000909\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EBut I wanted to take us to clause 4, new section 65AAA. I particularly want to home in on paragraph (c), which is the bit that reads \u201Cif P resides at any social housing in relation to which P is an additional resident, 62% of P\u2019s contributions for the period (excluding in the arrears):\u201D. This is basically the inclusion of the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D into social housing spaces. The reason why I wanted to specifically focus on that line is because on page 15 of the analysis that we were presented by MSD, there is, starting in paragraph 39, a whole section on the eligibility for social housing and priority rating on the social housing register. The analysis itself talks about how the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) and K\u0101inga Ora have raised concerns around contributions from boarders impacting social housing eligibility. Does she agree with those concerns or will she just keep giving us the same answers about how she thinks people are double dipping and ignoring, basically, all the negative impacts of this bill? Does she at least acknowledge any of the negative impacts? But I\u2019m really interested in paragraph 41.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI wanted to follow on by saying that K\u0101inga Ora noted that contributions from a boarder that is not part of a household is specific to the house the applicant is currently in, not to them as an individual. K\u0101inga Ora also acknowledges that, basically, the income is relevant to the affordability calculations of the current housing situation and alternative housing options. I also wanted to ask, basically, whether she agrees with the concerns, but also whether this is a sneaky way for the Minister to reduce the number of people eligible for social housing. Because this bill could have a negative flow-on effect on undermining the number of people that are eligible for social housing, allowing her to paint a much more positive picture about the demand for social housing when we still have housing hardship in our communities, effectively giving a new coat of paint to the list, making it look way better, and then giving her Government an out to build more public housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000911\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think if we didn\u2019t have the provision (c) in new section 65AAA, these concerns wouldn\u2019t be so prevalent. But because this applies to social housing tenants, I\u2019m particularly concerned about the fact that we could have people losing their eligibility for social housing while still living in hardship, which the Minister has completely failed to acknowledge. She talks about fairness, but she doesn\u2019t acknowledge whether people who will now not be receiving the accommodation supplement won\u2019t be living in hardship or poverty or in some difficult situation. So I wanted to ask\u2014on top of that and my previous questions\u2014whether she received any modelling from HUD, K\u0101inga Ora, or MSD around the potential changes to the social housing waiting list as a result of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000912\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ETo recap, my question says\u2014well, it would be great to get an acknowledgment from the Minister about whether she thinks those savings were overestimated; whether she agrees with MSD. I wanted to ask if she agreed with HUD and K\u0101inga Ora\u2019s concerns around the contributions from what is impacting social housing eligibility, and whether she received any modelling at all from MSD on the projected changes to the social housing register waiting list.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000913\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard stories from people who have lived in emergency housing or unaffordable rentals for months, sometimes years, before being able to access public housing. Now, people who may have boarders in their homes and unaffordable rentals who could be technically qualifying for the social housing waiting list could then be negatively affected and completely being kicked out or being put on from the A category to the B category, deprioritising them all together. And we know\u2014or anyone who works on the front lines knows\u2014that if you\u2019re in the B category, your chances of effectively getting a K\u0101inga Ora house are basically zero. This, basically, could deprioritise people to a place where they could never get public housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000914\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EIt would be great to get engagement on this. But, most importantly, I\u2019m asking the Minister if she agrees that the savings were overestimated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002299021fa8ed6041e9bcbd4d2a64439e11\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299021fa8ed6041e9bcbd4d2a64439e11\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I have answered that question, again, but I will put on record\u2014and I would invite the member to listen to my answer\u2014I did say the savings forecast could have been overestimated but equally could be underestimated because we don\u2019t have the data.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000916\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022534122a8ac244bf58c1332909023cb1c\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: MSD didn\u2019t say it could be underestimated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000917\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef55f0c9db1a4020b5cec0a504e92e83\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019ve just answered your question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u0022244608b8cb8344c681e756a1e79aba53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000918\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022244608b8cb8344c681e756a1e79aba53\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a first call on this bill. It has been a free-ranging conversation, very much focused on policy, and I appreciate the contribution from the previous member, Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March, which is starting now\u2014for the first time, in my view\u2014to really look at some of the clauses and I share some of his concerns. What I am proposing is that we had a bit of a conversation around the policy ramifications for different population groups. I would like to make a contribution and ask the Minister for Social Development and Employment some questions about that. But I\u2019m also very keen that we actually look\u2014we\u2019ve talked policy. We have not gone and looked in a technical way at the bill at all, in my view. I think the last contribution is probably the first one that has attempted to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000919\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI would like to go back after that in a back and forth, if I may, with the Minister to ask some specific questions, particularly around clause 4, new section 65AAA going forward, and there a few questions on each of those very fundamentals. If I may, the first thing I\u2019d like to say is just, we\u2019ve mentioned other population groups, but the supplementary analysis report also talks specifically about older people. I am the spokesperson for seniors and it talks about how the bill may have a disproportionate effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000920\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI\u2019m thinking about the housing crisis that we have and also the competing policy incentive that we share, I think, across the Chamber of wanting to keep people in homes as long as possible, rather than institutionalised. Many of the boarders that are currently able to be taken in are going into supported living in houses, often run by women who want to supplement their accommodation and their income because they have children who are taking these people on. There is an informality about it, but there is also a social value to it where, for example, they might provide some caregiving, they might do the shopping because the person who is there cannot shop or look after themselves completely, but they know that they don\u2019t want to be institutionalised and they are not able to stay at home. For many of those pensioners, let\u2019s not forget that they only got a $2.15 a week tax break when the tax breaks were announced last year. So boarding does serve that social purpose of encouraging and supporting seniors to live at home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000921\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019m concerned about is that not only will this disproportionately affect those boarders, because the people who own the homes will be disincentivised because of the changes to the accommodation supplement, but also what impact will it have on their ability then\u2014the people who wouldn\u2019t be taken in, who can\u2019t live at home, who may not be able to afford to go to a retirement village and who may not qualify fully for care. These are massive problems, given the tsunami of need that is coming towards us in New Zealand around aged care. That is my first policy question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000922\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EMy second one is really just looking at the reality as I know it of women\u2014and it\u2019s usually women; there are men who do it\u2014who have made a choice to try and be there to bring up their kids, who need to have boarders and they are able to make the system work currently, and yet they will not be able to or they\u2019re disincentivised to under this bill. When we call it double-dipping, let\u2019s be really clear: they are not double-dipping. The accommodation supplement is going to individuals either who are the tenant or the first boarder or the second boarder or the third boarder. But when we look at things like homeownership and capital gains, we have interest deductibility and we have no capital gains tax. Now, in my view of the world, that is double-dipping so I\u2019m not sure how the Minister can reconcile her definition of double-dipping with that one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000923\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThe other one I would say is just going now specifically to the technical elements of the bill. Clearly, we have got new section 65AAA in clause 4, accommodation supplement\u2014the interpretation. We have a number of questions around this. And Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March has leapt ahead, which is great, and we share some of those concerns. But if we may go backwards and forwards\u2014and I will be seeking a further call, Mr Chair\u2014the first one talks about service costs being excluded. Why is there that differentiation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000924\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ENow, when I look at the original Act, it is because section 65(2), it\u2019s got service costs, in relation to any premises, and it\u2019s got paragraph (b), and it does not include\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022 data-id=\u00229abc24177388448087f6cf3a1f65a91a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229abc24177388448087f6cf3a1f65a91a\u0022\u003EBENJAMIN DOYLE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I appreciate the questions from my colleague in Labour, Ingrid Leary, regarding the disproportional impacts on older people. Thank you for those questions, because it actually brings me to an important question about the question of the impact on rangatahi M\u0101ori. The distributional impacts outlined in the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s supplementary analysis report talk on page 23 and 24 about how M\u0101ori and youth will be disproportionately impacted, potentially, by this bill. We know that UNICEF recently released a report, and I wonder if the Minister for Social Development and Employment has sought advice about this, because it\u2019s a very alarming report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000926\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003EJust to allow everyone in the committee to understand what I\u2019m talking about, the UNICEF report, from May this year, ranks countries\u2014there were 36 countries ranked\u2014around youth mental wellbeing, and it actually outlines key determinants of mental ill health leading to suicidality. New Zealand Aotearoa has a shocking rate, an alarming rate, of youth suicide, particularly compounded with Pasifika and M\u0101ori youth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000927\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003EMy concern is about rangatahi, and my question is, as I stated earlier: has the Minister considered the impact on rangatahi M\u0101ori? In particular, we know that affordable housing is a key determinant of mental distress; the UNICEF report outlines that. Has the Minister additionally, in consulting the\u2014my request is around understanding if the Minister has consulted that report from UNICEF, but also I wonder if or why the Minister has not sought advice from the Ministry of Youth Development or from the Minister for Mental Health, because these are intersecting issues. We know that the total number of 16- to 24-year-olds who receive a supplement is 54,693, so a really large proportion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000928\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003EI also have a question around rangatahi for the Minister, around whether or not she\u2019s considered an increase or having an age cap, I guess, or a base level to start the definition of boarder so that the age range is increased so that those who are rangatahi\u2014why don\u2019t we increase the age to 20, 21, 22, 25 to avoid including rangatahi in that boarder category? We know that there is a disproportional impact on youth. We know mental ill health leads in this country to an increase in suicide for our rangatahi, and mental health distress caused by housing\u2014housing insecurity is a key determinant of mental health and mental ill health leading to suicide. I wonder if the Minister has considered putting an age range on the term \u201Cboarder\u201D so that we can ensure that those who are younger, who are rangatahi, are not going to be affected by this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000929\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003EWe do not want to see rangatahi M\u0101ori\u2014we do not want to see rangatahi at all\u2014being more exposed to the risk of suicide. That would be a travesty. That would be a violence within this bill that I think we could avoid, and I believe the Minister would want to avoid that as well. I hope she\u2019s able to explain her thinking on that and whether she would consider that. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00226f23fe012e844c6a8d85028e0a459a49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000930\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f23fe012e844c6a8d85028e0a459a49\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I have said before\u2014so it\u2019s feeling like it\u2019s getting repetitive\u2014the legislation is agnostic about who is a boarder and who\u2019s not a boarder and their relationship with the homeowner or the head tenant. It is agnostic. But it basically means, if they have a boarder\u2014i.e., they are paying board\u2014that should, and will, take into consideration the eligibility for financial support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022036a8ed174d046b39de8d61d7c750404\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000931\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022036a8ed174d046b39de8d61d7c750404\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I thank the Minister for Social Development and Employment for addressing the questions. She\u2019s trying the age-old trick that all Ministers do: try and pretend that she\u2019s repeating herself to encourage a closure. But we\u2019re not falling for that, because we have new material, and here\u2019s a new question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000932\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENew section 108A\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241774c603e5047a4b793946d8a17a054\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Well, bring it, then, and ask questions. Ask questions, then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000934\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253d51b757d5242f79f086f75289705b4\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Ministers aren\u2019t supposed to heckle from the chair; that\u2019s the first point. But the section that I\u2019m referring to here is new section 108A, inserted by clause 10, and that refers to discrepancies and information received relevant to housing assistance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EEssentially, what this refers to is when\u2014let\u2019s say the primary tenant and the boarder have information that doesn\u2019t quite match up. Fair enough, I imagine that would happen from time to time\u2014particularly in the scenarios that we can all imagine or have assisted people with in our own areas, such as when someone is looking for a boarding situation because they are in a precarious situation. These are often temporary but certainly come about with very little notice. Now, it\u2019s quite possible that the bits of information that both parties\u2014party A or party B\u2014would bring would be different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000936\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EBut what concerns me is the proposals here that say that once the discrepancy is identified, they\u2019ve only got one working day to sort it out. That doesn\u2019t seem a very long time. It\u2019s assuming that they\u2019re in a position to be able to address the discrepancy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000937\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022133b8209f44d42fcbfa71a8101c252b6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Just for clarification for the Chair, you\u2019re linking that to Part\u00A01? Because we\u2019re on Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000938\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1fd51f4fc714f3a8eb69edf7eb6177c\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000939\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ad4e35c954f433da71d621ee5d59cb8\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: No, he wants to move on to Part 2, clearly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022e28721ed7cfd4911b982bd6e6538e568\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e28721ed7cfd4911b982bd6e6538e568\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I have a question for the Minister for Social Development and Employment which is a new question about Part 1. I\u2019m at new section 65AAA. I have gone to the Social Security Act 2018, which it is amending, and in that Act the definitions of the people that this applies to are set out. I want to clarify with the Minister whether there is a mistake here, because there is not an amendment to whom this applies, because this will have a particular impact on single mothers and single parents. They do not receive child support for children who are aged 18 to 19, and the policy has been before today\u2014well, before it will take effect in 2027\u2014that those adult children would have otherwise been able to receive a benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI want to ask, particularly for that group of people, who will either be the homeowners or the head tenants, how this bill will impact on them. And I want to ask whether the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D here is intended to have a carve-out for those people who are 18 to 19 who reside with a parent. Many young people who are in this situation will be in a situation where they are with a parent and where they do bring some form of income into the family, and that income will, in some situations, be deemed to be payments for board and lodging. But surely, in the situation where we\u2019ve had another policy change indicated by the Minister for the treatment of 18- to 19-year-olds, where they have even a single parent\u2014I want to ask her whether this was something that has been missed in this bill and whether there should be in fact a carve-out for those people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000942\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EMy question is also in the context of the supplementary advice that we received from the Ministry of Social Development (MSD), which is incredibly helpful at forecasting those unintended consequences. But, obviously, MSD would have been restricted from the amount that they could have commented on this particular group of people, and there will be a particular impact that they will be needing to think through about those parents who will no longer be eligible for child support payments but will, effectively, be responsible for their adult children aged 18 to 19. I want to know whether this should be amended, and I\u2019m happy to prepare an amendment in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002270e3bd97d06f4fb0ae2d574dd12411f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000943\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270e3bd97d06f4fb0ae2d574dd12411f5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the next call, just for some clarification for the committee, it would be helpful if you reference the clause or section that you\u2019re talking to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000944\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EAnd, just on the other point around engagement\u2014because I acknowledge that some members have called for engagement as well\u2014if you front-load your questions, that will make it easier, I think, for the committee to be able to prepare to answer as well. But then also, if you\u2019re going to take the full five minutes and you\u2019re going to load up with lots and lots of questions, that can actually be counter to engagement as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000945\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EJust in reference to the member the Hon Kieran McAnulty, my call last time was I wasn\u2019t sure whether you were referring to Part 1 or whether you were referring to Part 2\u2014just to clarify that. We\u2019ll go to Carmel Sepuloni.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000946\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280af5e87fe8d4687afacd6e99c98c711\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you so much, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00220909637f6d4644009262bfb6b5fc9764\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000947\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220909637f6d4644009262bfb6b5fc9764\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Thank you very much, Mr Chair, for that clarification. My concern, though, is that when a Minister informs the committee that a member is speaking to a different part, the committee takes the Minister by their word. But she was incorrect. It\u2019s not actually your query that was my concern, but part-way through my call, when the Minister says you\u2019re talking about Part 2, you sit down and check. But I was not. And so I should be allowed the opportunity to continue my call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002222e421622d9c43e1be8c4a2fba8bd8ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000948\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222e421622d9c43e1be8c4a2fba8bd8ab\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Point taken. The Hon Kieran McAnulty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002294312a24bf5642f2951184045954647a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000949\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294312a24bf5642f2951184045954647a\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much. As I was saying, new section\u00A0108A, inserted by clause 10, Part 1\u2014here we go, we\u2019ll continue on. A situation where\u2014let\u2019s call it\u2014\u201Cbeneficiary A\u201D and \u201Cbeneficiary B\u201D have provided information to the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) that doesn\u2019t quite match. They\u2019re only given one day\u2014one working day\u2014to sort that out. Now, that doesn\u2019t seem reasonable to me, and I would like to understand from the Minister for Social Development and Employment as to why they\u2019ve landed on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000950\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EBut what concerns me more is that after 10 working days from the day on which MSD notified them about the discrepancy, this will, essentially, affect the benefits, the assistance, that both parties get. Now, that doesn\u2019t seem very fair, when it is entirely feasible that only one of these parties has provided the incorrect information yet both of them will be punished if one of them doesn\u2019t provide that information. And what\u2019s even worse is that after eight weeks, if that one of those parties doesn\u2019t rectify the situation, their assistance is cancelled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000951\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, what is the justification there? When you have a situation that identifies that there are two different parties to this agreement, it requires both of them to provide information. If only one is incorrect and that party, for whatever reason\u2014and that could well be incapacity\u2014is unable to resolve that first of all within 10 working days, to be affected by, essentially, a suspension, and then by eight weeks a cancellation\u2014that is going to cause considerable harm in circumstances that are quite feasible where parties, through no fault of their own\u2014they\u2019ve provided the right information; the person that happens to be in their residence hasn\u2019t\u2014but they\u2019ve lost their benefit, they\u2019ve lost their assistance. I\u2019d like the Minister to outline the justification of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8e0d79f66c04316b0bbbbb7541e94d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000952\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8e0d79f66c04316b0bbbbb7541e94d5\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m looking again at Part 1, new section 65AAA, in clause 4, where the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D exists. I didn\u2019t get the answers before from the Minister for Social Development and Employment about those that may be there for temporary lengths of time or because of emergency situations. But I wanted to ask the Minister, under paragraph (b), where it says \u201Cdoes not include a person who resides at any social housing\u201D, whether any other exemptions or exclusions were considered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI want to know whether the Minister considered that another exclusion could be a person who has left urgently in an emergency situation, such as a domestic violence situation, and whether or not the Minister considered excluding from the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D a person who may have been moved out for evacuation purposes because of a natural disaster emergency. Did the Minister consider a sole parent main tenant who was on the sole parent benefit and has children who are 18 or 19 now and so has become ineligible for the sole parent benefit but still has those children residing with her, but they are not working but studying, or perhaps working part time? Could they be excluded as boarders because they decide they want to give their mum $100 a week knowing that their mother is no longer getting the full amount of the sole parent benefit because the children have aged out? I want to know whether the Minister considered any of those scenarios for exclusion from the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D or any other scenario from the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000954\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI also want to know from the Minister whether or not she considered a time frame with respect to how long someone needed to reside in that residence to be considered a boarder given the transient nature of some, the difficultly getting housing, the fact that often people are forced to live with friends or family for a short period of time until they can get more stable, secure, and, hopefully\u2014and we always hope\u2014permanent housing. Did she consider under this definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D a time frame to be attached, perhaps giving them two months and then defining them as a boarder before they then incur the penalty that is being incurred by them now as a result of the legislation that\u2019s being passed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd0e1a006a0649e4b3f9b1a54f68dac9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000955\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd0e1a006a0649e4b3f9b1a54f68dac9\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The minions are already trying to close the debate, despite them moving urgency. I wanted to ask about clause 9\u2014specifically on the bits that read, \u201CAfter section 69(3), insert\u201D, and not (3A) but (3B): \u201CMSD must cancel an accommodation supplement that has been granted if it has been payable at a rate of zero for eight consecutive weeks.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000956\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI want to ask the Minister for Social Development and Employment where the eight weeks figure came from. What informed the decision to put eight weeks here in clause 9? For example, I can see a greater flexibility being needed\u2014I mean, a boarding arrangement between family members can fluctuate sometimes. You know, somebody might stay there for three months or longer, and right now with periods of unemployment that are much greater than before, you could have somebody living there for a greater period of time. So I did want to understand where the eight-consecutive-week period came from, whether you may have wanted to give that a bit of flexibility or\u2014you know, just the rationale behind it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000957\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EFollowing on from that, I wanted to draw attention to paragraph 44 of the supplementary analysis report, including the boarder\u2019s contribution and the calculation of housing subsidies, because this is something that I would have definitely asked officials about if we had had a select committee\u2014which I don\u2019t understand. If she kept talking about how this was something in Budget 2024, why didn\u2019t she introduce this bill between 2024 and today\u2019s Budget? Like, we actually could have had proper select committee scrutiny, but at paragraph 44 it talks about the interactions in relationship to the excess income of boarders and how this may affect the assessment of parental income for student allowance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000958\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ERight now, for many students, they are not able to access a student allowance because their parents\u2019 incomes are deemed to be too high. For many students, this in and of itself is a disincentive to enter into tertiary education. The analysis presented by the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) in paragraph 44 talks about how that could be a negative interaction in terms of people\u2019s eligibility for a student allowance. I wanted to ask whether MSD did any modelling around the reduction of people who now qualify for a student allowance as a result of the changes to the parental income that are in this bill, and I wonder whether that is counterintuitive to, perhaps, the goal of the Government to support people entering into education, to meet their aspirations, and to have the qualifications so they can enter a range of different types of employment, unless her intent was to create a low-wage economy\u2014which, I mean, I would argue that that\u2019s the case, but I\u2019m keen to hear the Minister\u2019s opinion on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI also wanted to ask whether, if MSD did do any modelling around how many people may lose out on student allowance, there could be a cohort of people who could end up being left in a situation where they\u2019re dropping out of university all of a sudden after the bill\u2019s passing, because you could have people, for example, who are studying towards a degree, who qualify for a student allowance, and they have suddenly been stripped out of that support as a result of the analysis\u2014you know, a really good observation by MSD of how there will be an interaction, particularly under the provisions in clause 4, due to this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EIf there\u2019s an analysis by MSD, I\u2019m keen to know if there is data on the different types of ethnicities, where those people may be concentrated. This is particularly important: having trained social workers in the past before, I assume that there\u2019s a massive rate of people dropping out, for example, from the social work degree, but we\u2019re actually starting to see it across the universities. I\u2019m really worried, even in MSD apprentices, that the bill, in particular the provisions in clause 4, could lead to fewer people being able to sustain themselves in education. Is the Minister comfortable with this interaction? If not, you know, could she be open to excluding people in education from being qualified as boarders, and does she not think that this could be a way to ensure that people who are pursuing education end up missing\u2014well, actually, the parents of students don\u2019t end up having an income deemed too high for their children to then qualify for student allowance? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00221ff49d09bc5c46e991e743ac0ee227e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000961\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ff49d09bc5c46e991e743ac0ee227e5\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E There\u2019s been a couple of questions about time frames. So in terms of any disputes, obviously we will want to ensure that disputes are resolved quickly, which is why there is a disputes process built into the bill. Because what we don\u2019t want is for people to be overpaid assistance, which of course then leads to a debt, and that increases the stress for people who are receiving that assistance. In terms of the eight weeks, the eight weeks is part of the system functionality. It\u2019s consistent across a wide range of existing suspension or cancellation rules, so it\u2019s a standard time frame that\u2019s been used and that\u2019s why there\u2019ll be no entertaining of any changes around the time frames. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022087cdd3ef6f844b0b629bc82890097a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022087cdd3ef6f844b0b629bc82890097a0\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I wanted to continue some of the k\u014Drero around some of the questions in terms of M\u0101ori that was put up by Benjamin Doyle, but I also have an amendment that the Minister for Social Development and Employment, the Hon Louise Upston, might want to have a look at. I was listening to Benjamin Doyle\u2019s k\u014Drero, and I think the points raised, particularly in the areas of the worst statistics, have to be repeated. You know, you\u2019re talking about some of the worst employment rates going in terms of the country\u2014in fact, that\u2019s the only area where we saw a change, in terms of employment: unemployment rates, I should say. There\u2019s a lot of consequences from this type of legislation, and, with that being the case, I want to ask the Minister what sort of consultation she\u2019s gone through in that area, given that straight after the Budget I received calls from a couple of iwi leaders very concerned in terms of where the Government was moving in the M\u0101ori direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000963\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWith that being the case, I thought I could help the Minister, and I have put up, as you will see, an amendment there in clause 4, new section 65AAA: before paragraph (a), to insert, when considering accommodation supplements, that due consideration is given to the principles of the Treaty\u201D\u2014namely, the principles of participation, protection, and partnership. I\u2019m sure that could help the Minister very much, particularly now, and maybe bring the Government a bit more on side with M\u0101ori at the moment, who feel rather\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000964\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1136e6ffbb54336804411533c3d9bd7\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: Shafted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000965\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abf9495f5e1645b88adf536651dd271c\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014depressed, shafted from the current Budget. But any type of clause like this would, in fact, give some encouragement to M\u0101ori. So that\u2019s a clause that\u2019s being put up for serious consideration. It\u2019s important that the obligations of the Crown are acknowledged and honoured. And, of course, the Minister will know, I\u2019m sure, that the principles of participation, protection, and partnership benefit not only M\u0101ori, but all beneficiaries who are faced with having their benefit cut. So installing this type of clause, I think, will go some way to giving some encouragement to M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000966\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ESo can the Minister explain how the principles I\u2019ve mentioned are being actioned in the legislation? Maybe she might be able to point them out. How\u2019s the Crown going to protect families when they\u2019re sanctioned and their accommodation is cut off? Where will they go? That\u2019s where, maybe, the Minister can inform us, in terms of her relationships with some of the iwi or M\u0101ori organisations, what\u2019s happening in that area. And in that participation area, how is the Crown promoting participation when this legislation is being put through under urgency, with no one having the opportunity to participate in the select committee process? It\u2019s a real stand-out. Here we are in the dead of the night, Friday night\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000967\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbd91c90ee924150a73e38db3f1d508b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: The rugby\u2019s on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000968\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a368cca95a54e4781aa8fa40cf1013c\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t know if anyone\u2019s watching us\u2014I think they\u2019re all watching the rugby. Sadly\u2014sadly\u2014they\u2019re all watching the rugby, and here we\u2019ve got this cunning Government sliding through this type of legislation in the middle of the night. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000969\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EBut, seriously, I don\u2019t put the principles up, Minister, just for a joke, because you will know that I\u2019m very focused on partnership with the Crown\u2014M\u0101ori and partnership with the Crown. So how is the Crown working in terms of partnership with our NGOs, M\u0101ori and mainstream community providers, when considering this new change? What\u2019s the level of consultation, and will the Minister consider implementing what I\u2019ve put up, which is, as I said earlier, in clause 4, in new section 65AAA, before paragraph (a), when considering accommodation supplements, that due consideration is given to the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi, namely in the area of participation, protection, and partnership\u2014partnership being, I suppose, the go-to word given that that type of k\u014Drero is now being questioned by many, many people, particularly after the Budget. So I put that seriously in front of the Minister and ask her: is that something that she or her officials or Government would consider?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022f42b930d76ee4c26a21a045a18301109\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000970\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f42b930d76ee4c26a21a045a18301109\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the next call, it would help the committee\u2014and I know that some members have been doing that\u2014to refer to the clause that you are referring to; also, to all your Amendment Papers. And for those of you who are seeking engagement with the Minister the Hon Louise Upston, if you\u2019d front-load your questions and give the Minister space to actually answer them, that would be helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022042a88dc81cb49599ab3e22a78156fa6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000971\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022042a88dc81cb49599ab3e22a78156fa6\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m referring to clause 4, inserting new section 65AAA, and we are looking at paragraphs (c) and (d). There\u2019s an amount there of 62 percent. You\u2019ve heard my colleague suggest that there might be an opportunity to carve out groups that are impacted more severely than other groups, and that\u2019s been pointed out by the officials.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000972\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EBut my suggestion to you and my question is: do you really believe this is the best method of assessing a fair amount of division when\u2014what we\u2019ve talked about tonight\u2014there\u2019s a lot of situations which are very informal, and they\u2019re based on people doing a deal for someone? For example, their adult children or their older children\u2014they will actually have them for less money. If those adult children are paying $50 a week\u2014and we\u2019re talking, really, teenage children, often\u2014there\u2019s not actually a case in justice for a 62 percent deduction. That makes a lot more sense if they\u2019re paying $200. But if they\u2019re paying $50, that doesn\u2019t make sense because it won\u2019t cover the costs that are outgoing on things like water and food.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000973\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWhat I would like to know from the Minister for Social Development and Employment is: did she consider an alternative method of establishing the amount that should be reduced? Would she now consider an amendment which suggested that, so that there was a proportionality? If somebody is paying a low amount, which is reflective of a familial relationship or a goodwill relationship or just being a kind person, there might be a discretion from the Ministry of Social Development to not reduce at that level\u2014which seems, to me, a lot more just in the circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000974\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to know how the Minister got to the figure of 62 percent, because that just seems to be arbitrary in this situation. I\u2019d like to also know\u2014and this is a reference, again, to the supplementary analysis: there are figures there of the amount that is expected to be lost by people, so they are on page 21 at paragraph 74. Somebody with one boarder is expected to lose $92 per week, and somebody with two boarders is $148. Now, that can\u2019t be right if they\u2019re only paying $100 in the amount as boarders. If you\u2019ve got a child boarding and they\u2019re paying $100, are they going to lose $92? Is that actually what your officials are telling you, or is that based on some sort of averaging of what the estimate is that we think people are paying in board, on average rents? So how were those figures calculated as the loss to our families? So we have losses of $92 a week if there\u2019s one boarder, $140 a week if there are two boarders, and $202 a week if there are three boarders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ECan we understand\u2014and I genuinely would like to know from the Minister: what was the methodology used to come up with those figures which are in this report? What does she understand that they were based on? And why hasn\u2019t she used a proportional response? Would she be willing to consider building in a discretion to deal with unjust situations where the board charged simply won\u2019t cover the costs, for there to be an alternative formula rather than a hard 62 percent of whatever it is? Because I do hear the Minister when she says it\u2019s agnostic. But that doesn\u2019t seem agnostic to me; that seems blind. It\u2019s just blindly stupid to charge people more when they\u2019re actually doing people a favour out there in the community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000976\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard from my colleague about the wellbeing impact of that kind of wraparound care. In fact, it\u2019s a theme in the night. So could I please have an answer to those questions\u2014I\u2019d appreciate it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002228d7adf81c22414abe6e390487bb91ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000977\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228d7adf81c22414abe6e390487bb91ce\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E The 62\u00A0percent is something that was determined in the 1990s in terms of what was considered someone in terms of the accommodation costs associated with board as opposed to someone who is a renter. If somebody is renting off you, 100 percent of the costs are considered accommodation costs. That\u2019s why we will not be entertaining any changes, and that\u2019s why it\u2019s clearly laid out in the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D and the percentage. If somebody\u2019s charging $200 a week, 62 percent of the $200 are considered accommodation costs. We\u2019ve traversed this a lot, but I\u2019m hopeful that the member now understands 62\u00A0percent is the accommodation cost component of board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u00221da20943b71c4010900896c29cd48bae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000978\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221da20943b71c4010900896c29cd48bae\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I wanted to move us to clause 10 of Part 1. This is, in particular, the obligations in relationship to discrepancies in information received. This is adding in a new section 108A. What this new section does is, basically, it\u2019s trying to address discrepancies that may arise, for example, from information received by the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) from a beneficiary receiving housing assistance, and information received by MSD from another beneficiary who is receiving housing assistance or a tenant of social housing who pays an income-related rent. Basically, what this lays out is the mechanisms that exist to, for example, address these discrepancies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000979\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWhat the analysis report by MSD identified is that there would be an increase in risk of people, effectively, committing fraud. Therefore, I wanted to ask, as part of the design of new section 108A, inserted by clause 10, whether the Minister for Social Development and Employment sought to check whether the fraud services by MSD which could end up investigating, for example, these discrepancies, are adequately resourced or whether they would need a booster resource in order to address these discrepancies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000980\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think this is particularly important because if we look at, for example, the new section\u00A0108A(3)\u2014this is line 10 on page 7\u2014there\u2019s language like, \u201CIf the discrepancy is not resolved to MSD\u2019s satisfaction within 10 working days from the date on which MSD notified A and B of the particulars of the discrepancy, MSD must suspend,\u201D. There\u2019s language here that just arbitrarily has laid out 10 working days. I want to understand what the rationale was behind it. I also wanted to understand, for example, whether for disabled people those 10 working days could end up being a barrier\u2014like whether she sought advice around those 10 working days in new section\u00A0108A(3), whether they\u2019re adequate, how did she come to that conclusion, was it just arbitrarily decided, and whether she was using other parts of legislation to help guide the decision to put 10 working days here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000981\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EGoing back to my earlier question around the resourcing of MSD to address these discrepancies, I wonder whether she would like to address the fact that this may require additional resources for the services that deal with investigating fraud, as well as whether, for example, she thinks staff will need additional training to manage these discrepancies. If she does think that staff will require additional training to manage the provisions in new section 108A, inserted by clause 10, I wonder whether she would like to reflect on the fact that MSD did recently tell us that the front line is oversubscribed, and whether this will be feasible. Because the consequences of those discrepancies not being adequately worked out between MSD and the people receiving income support could be disastrous, right? We know that MSD makes mistakes on the regular when it comes to calculating people\u2019s entitlements and so, while I know that automated decision-making may address some of this, I\u2019m keen to get the Minister\u2019s reflection on what I\u2019ve asked around areas in new section 108A, inserted by clause 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000982\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ENow, I did want to ask, as well, in relationship to the likelihood of people being criminalised\u2014and by that I mean having to commit fraud in order to survive\u2014whether she did seek advice from MSD around any modelling of, for example, a number of additional investigations that could likely take place as a result of this, whether she has any numbers around the increases of investigations that could be triggered. But I\u2019m also interested to know whether she sought advice around the likelihood of greater benefit review committee hearings occurring as a result of people challenging decisions being made as a result of these discrepancies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000983\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThe benefit review committee hearings\u2014for people listening in\u2014are basically the hearings where people can dispute decisions that have been made by MSD. So I wonder whether, as a result of the provisions in new section 108A, inserted by clause 10, she thinks those hearings will be more burdened; we already hear at the front lines about delays to even get a hearing and an outcome. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EAgain, I know that we haven\u2019t spoken about clause 10 and this deserves adequate scrutiny as it could have really negative consequences for people, so I\u2019m keen to get the Minister\u2019s reflection on these.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00224f09e5c8f6de4d469039cf41241ece08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000985\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f09e5c8f6de4d469039cf41241ece08\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve addressed time frames. In terms of the 10 days, we want to get the issues resolved. I\u2019m saddened to hear that member thinking that this would lead to an increase in fraud. I don\u2019t believe that would be the case at all. This is about people being clear about, if they are receiving board from a first boarder and a second boarder\u2014that that is taken into consideration as part of their circumstances when they are eligible or for the level of accommodation assistance or not. The 10 days is so that we don\u2019t have a situation where people are either overpaid or underpaid and getting it sorted quickly, which I would\u2019ve thought that member was interested in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u002216ea33d520c74e33a0443f7e80e0c77f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000986\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216ea33d520c74e33a0443f7e80e0c77f\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I just wanted to ask the Minister for Social Development and Employment a few questions in relation to this\u2014my first opportunity to contribute to this bill. The question I had follows on from the questions that my colleague Helen White was asking in relation to the 62 percent. I have a different question on a different part of Part 1, but it touches on some similar issues around the original Act that we are amending and the way that percentages were arrived at in terms of the active parts of this particular amendment bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000987\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI\u2019m looking at clause 14(1)(q)(i), and I\u2019m also looking at clause 14(1)(q)(ii) and 14(1)(r), and all of those proposed new sections reference 38 percent as a percentage number. I wanted to check with the Minister: she mentioned when in response to Helen White in relation to the percentage of 62\u00A0percent\u2014which is a different part and in relation to a different matter\u2014that that was agreed on in 1992, I think; it was agreed on in the primary Act. And I wanted to ask her for this particular percentage if this, too, was carried over, and if she did, in fact, think about looking at those different percentages of contributions and whether those are still appropriate at this time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000988\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI think the reason that it\u2019s really important for the committee to find that out is because this is an issue that we do have with amendment bills, is when we have an amendment bill, we only have the active parts that are being changed in relation to the primary piece of legislation. It is actually extremely problematic that we don\u2019t have a marked-up bill that shows us what is an existing part of the bill and what is a change. In fact, the way that drafters draft this is that sometimes they change only certain words or numbers, and sometimes they change entire sections. And sometimes it looks like they\u2019ve changed an entire section, but actually not so much has changed. It\u2019s very difficult for us to ascertain exactly what the position is when we don\u2019t have the entire Act in front of us, and of course we can\u2019t mark that up ourselves when we\u2019re going through urgency without a regulatory impact statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000989\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EOn first blush, they seem like arbitrary amounts. I appreciate that there\u2019s a lot of history associated with this particular piece of legislation and its impact, and I\u2019m sure that there was due consideration when the amounts were considered. I\u2019d like to know: did the Minister take advice on that and what was that advice? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1eaa6d872094299b592941f48831944\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1eaa6d872094299b592941f48831944\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E The member refers to clause 14: 38 percent is the inverse of the 62 percent that I talked about previously that is counted as accommodation costs. The 38 percent is the balance that is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022a01ab39809a64a5aa97bf15dea64469e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000991\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a01ab39809a64a5aa97bf15dea64469e\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I will say to the Minister for Social Development and Employment that, as a result of the debate earlier on where we were debating clause 4, new section 65AAA, under the \u201Cboarder\u201D definition, I have put forward an amendment that I want the Minister to consider, which adds an exclusion to the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D. Currently there\u2019s only one exclusion, that being \u201Cdoes not include a person who resides at any social housing\u201D\u2014that\u2019s (b). I\u2019m adding (c): \u201Cdoes not include a person who has left a domestic violence situation to be in a new home where they would otherwise be considered to be a boarder\u201D. I would like the Minister to let me know whether or not she will take the time to consider that exclusion, considering the very urgent and serious nature of the situation for those that find themselves in domestic violence situations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000992\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI do have another exclusion, and the Minister can let me know whether she\u2019s going to consider that. We will, of course, be voting for that because the amendment is on the Table. It is Part 1, again. It is clause 9, \u201CSection 69 amended (Accommodation supplement: refusal, reduction, or cancellation of grant in certain circumstances)\u201D. It says \u201CAfter section 69(3), insert: (3A) MSD must refuse to grant an accommodation supplement if MSD is satisfied that it would, if granted, be payable at a rate of zero.\u201D The next one is (3B): \u201CMSD must cancel an accommodation supplement that has been granted if it has been payable at a rate of zero for 8 consecutive weeks.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000993\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ENow, what I want the Minister to consider is that there are some good people in this world who take on boarders who have high and complex needs. That includes mental health, addiction issues, but is not limited to mental health and addiction issues. In many of those circumstances, it does increase the risk of the board being inconsistently paid or variable in terms of payment, not through any fault of the lead tenant, and certainly, there are reasons for why that can happen for a boarder in that situation. But we wouldn\u2019t want to discourage people providing an opportunity for those who have those high and complex needs to be able to take up board within their homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000994\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EHowever, it feels unfair that that lead tenant or homeowner could then have their accommodation supplement refused when there is enough evidence to suggest that they are taking a slight risk and that there will be variable payments potentially and it could be inconsistent and there could be some weeks where it\u2019s not paid. But to then have Ministry of Social Development (MSD) have in writing that if it\u2019s deemed it would be payable at a rate of zero then they\u2019ll have it cancelled seems unfair. It also seems unfair that if they\u2019re gone for eight weeks consecutively then it would be cancelled, given there could be still a risk with the boarder because of the high and complex needs, and I wonder whether or not the Minister took that into consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000995\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI\u2019m worried that people will be discouraged from taking on boarders for a range of reasons as a result of this bill, and this is one. It puts them in a potentially precarious financial situation themselves. It does seem that MSD is going to have less flexibility in relation to those who are claiming accommodation supplement. And then what happens to those with the high and complex needs? We know that there are people who struggle to pay their board regularly. Doesn\u2019t make them bad people\u2014often it\u2019s just that they have some very, very complex needs. I think many of us would have met someone like that across the course of our life\u2014I would hope, if we\u2019re in touch with what happens in reality. So I want the Minister to consider whether or not there should be exclusions there or exceptions, in some way or another, to ensure that that particular scenario is covered off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00220d7056e400434399bda2e042c4245aa9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000996\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d7056e400434399bda2e042c4245aa9\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s me, isn\u2019t it? Oh, thank you\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000997\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c41153dcb0ce45b0b07ac43976ef3428\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CBusy Willie\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000998\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eeda8b3c924a49e891027e2a2cc250c6\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chair. Thank you\u2014don\u2019t worry. Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I had a couple of areas I wanted to talk about. The Minister for Social Development and Employment has still not come back to me with the question I had earlier in terms of Treaty partnership and whether there had been any consideration or regard to that, and I was talking about new section 65AAA in clause 4. So I just want to put that up again, and I\u2019ve got another amendment that I want the Minister to consider. But I have put that up seriously, given the current climate. It is an amendment that, Mr Chair\u2014you\u2019ve just come into the Chair\u2014amends new section 65AAA in clause 4 to insert, before paragraph (a), \u201Cwhen considering accommodation supplements, that due consideration is given to the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi, namely the principles of participation, protection, and partnership\u201D, which is a serious question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39000999\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI think it would help the Government very much if they went down this track, given that the Crown has a duty to protect wh\u0101nau, particularly those who have been sanctioned. The Crown always talks about promoting participation, and, of course, partnership is the very challenging term that this Government is traversing at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001000\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI want the Minister to have a look in Part 1 at clause 10, and new section 108A(4). My amendment is about replacing \u201C8 weeks\u201D with \u201C12 weeks\u201D, and the Hon Carmel Sepuloni has just traversed that area. So it\u2019s another serious amendment proposal. It\u2019s about giving the Ministry of Social Development a more reasonable time frame to allow beneficiaries to correct a discrepancy before a suspension of a housing allowance, after identifying where the discrepancy is. This is pretty self-explanatory; this is about providing enough time for wh\u0101nau before housing allowances are suspended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWe don\u2019t want families kicked to the kerb and living on the streets, which, sadly, is becoming a bit more common than we might think. It\u2019s very hard, of course, to track the figures in this area because all we hear is about wh\u0101nau leaving emergency housing, but then we don\u2019t know where they are going. So I think that we might be able to help that by inserting this type of clause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI also want to know from the Minister what flexibility there is in terms of extending this time frame, and the impact that it will have on wh\u0101nau while extending their time frame, because of the impact it will have on families, and the rationale behind why eight weeks is enough time for families to comply. It is a very contentious area when we look at the stats, as I\u2019ve said before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve got terrible statistics in the housing area for M\u0101ori, and that\u2019s what I talked about earlier. M\u0101ori are leading in all the worst statistics in terms of homelessness and in terms of unemployment at the moment, so I think that both these amendments would help the Minister immensely, and would maybe even garner or may be able to get some support from some of the local NGOs, because they would see a Government that is a bit more caring, rather than the punitive-type Government that it\u2019s now being seen as by many in our community at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIs there any consideration given to those two amendments? I did not receive any response on the Treaty principles question. There was no response to that, but in Part 1, clause 10, at new section\u00A0108A(4), replacing \u201C8 weeks\u201D with \u201C12 weeks\u201D is, I think, a reasonable request, given that this is incredibly controversial at the moment. Given that so many of our people at the coalface\u2014and when I say \u201Cour people\u201D, I\u2019m talking about Kiwis at the coalface\u2014are feeling under attack from this Government, why can the Minister not consider something that is obviously not so punitive, but is a bit more sensitive and caring in terms of our local communities? Thank you, Mr Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022231f3220f6394554916659f12d305e9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022231f3220f6394554916659f12d305e9a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I will call Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March, but I will indicate at the moment that we\u2019ll be looking for new material. I\u2019ve been following this for some time, so please be looking for new material. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u00225d9db8bbfb6647669c2bdb92e653a668\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d9db8bbfb6647669c2bdb92e653a668\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to evaluate clause 11, \u201CSection 162 amended (Obligations of young person granted youth support payment)\u201D. That hasn\u2019t really been covered. I just want to ask: why has there been a decision made that basically 100 percent\u2014this is someone who\u2019s young and receiving the youth support payment\u2014counts as contributions as defined in section 65AAA? I\u2019m concerned about this, due in large part to the analysis by the Ministry of Social Development and Employment (MSD), which does talk about the impacts on young people, but I did wonder whether the Minister for Social Development and Employment would be open to telling us what led to this decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think that there\u2019s an issue with young people who are boarding negatively contributing to the person who they\u2019re boarding with losing income support. When you\u2019re quite young and receiving the youth support payment\u2014that in and of itself assumes that there\u2019s a level of precarity. What I worry about is that that could create additional stress between the people living there. The provisions in clause 11, in and of themselves, make me worry that there could be an increase of additional stress between the people living with each other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EBut then if we also look at\u2014and this is new material\u2014something that hasn\u2019t been touched on, but I think could it be worthwhile raising it here in terms of the cost of living, and it definitely would have been raised in the select committee stage if the Minister had allowed us to have one in order to evaluate this thoroughly. In the supplementary analysis, there\u2019s a mention of increased friction between people on income support and MSD staffers\u2014that\u2019s very explicitly mentioned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI wonder\u2014because of what clause 11 introduces and its relationship with the youth support payment, I think this would be worthwhile raising it: whether MSD would need to invest in additional measures to deal with this friction that MSD has identified will likely happen as a result of the bill; and, if so, what is the dollar figure, if any, of the resourcing that will need to go in to address the increased friction that this bill will cause, as identified by MSD themselves? I think the Minister so far has dismissed a lot of the MSD advice that we\u2019ve been presenting, for example, like the increase in hardship, the increase in homelessness, the increase in the need for emergency housing. But I\u2019m really concerned just regarding the advice from MSD that talks about increased friction because this is the reflection from the front line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ETo recap my two questions in relation to clause 11, is whether the Minister would be open to reducing that 100 percent figure so as to not create additional tensions for people who are boarding together; and has there been any additional resourcing, training documents, etc., to deal with the fact that she has been advised that this bill will increase friction at MSD offices?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EFinally, I did wonder whether she also may think that, as part of that overestimation in savings that I referenced before, that could include in clause 11 and the advice I\u2019m referencing an additional need for security. Does she think that actually there may have to be increased spending on security at Work and Income offices to deal with an increase in friction? If so, has MSD modelled anything in relationship to increased security needs\u2014for example, including additional lockdowns that may happen at Work and Income offices due to this friction that has been identified in the supplementary analysis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI find it actually really staggering to see the members kind of laughing at some of these questions. I mean, perhaps as constituency MPs, they haven\u2019t engaged with Work and Income clients who\u2019ve been affected by a lockdown which interrupts assistance, but I think clause 11 would be a good point to raise that in. And while I take the advice from the Chair, I do want to again invite the Minister to engage with questions that we could have raised at the select committee stage. This is a bill that would have deserved a lot of scrutiny; we\u2019re not getting it. So I do want to make sure that the Minister is also engaging with issues that pertain to the clauses but also the broader policy analysis that this bill deserves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u0022db418f681dd246be97cf2c1368aa85ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db418f681dd246be97cf2c1368aa85ad\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. This is just my second contribution this evening. My first one was very much along the population group for seniors, but there are a number of questions\u2014short, sharp questions\u2014I\u2019d like to engage with the Minister for Social Development and Employment on, if she\u2019s prepared. We could do a backwards and forwards. So I will ask the questions and if she doesn\u2019t respond, then I will just carry on. I\u2019d really like to get these through Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThe first one, Minister, is that the threshold, which is 62 percent\u2014Helen White alluded to a sort of discretionary threshold. I have a tabled amendment that suggests 42 percent. We know, when I looked at the original Act, that the original Act, I think, was 1997. There hasn\u2019t been a reworking of the data. So I\u2019d like the Minister to consider whether 42 percent, given the cost of living crisis, would be more appropriate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EIn clause 4, new section 65AAA\u2014I\u2019ll just wait for the Minister to see if she wants to; no, she doesn\u2019t\u2014paragraph (d), when we talk about the exclusions, it talks about the 62\u00A0percent, and then it says, \u201Cand lodgings at the premises at which P resides (excluding any arrears)\u201D. Now, the arrears comes from the principal Act, and removing the exclusion would help those who cannot get an appointment at the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) due to front-line staffing cuts. And we know that because, in my electorate, people are finding it really difficult to get appointments. We don\u2019t want this to be just an arrears and open slather thing. So would the Minister consider tempering it so that it captures the date that \u201Ca person (P)\u201D, in the formula, first communicates with MSD to make an appointment? Now, that can be verified\u2014it can be done electronically, it can be done with phone logs. It doesn\u2019t disadvantage P, but it does seem very unfair in the current environment that arrears could occur because people have not been able to get hold of MSD. So I\u2019ll just pause\u2014see if the Minister wants to respond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EOK, I\u2019ll go to my next question, which is around service costs. Service costs in new section\u00A065AAA: people have actually wrapped up water supply to a premises as part of the costs. I think there is actually a miscomprehension that water costs are a legitimate cost. But the original Act excludes them, as does this. I don\u2019t know if any thought\u2019s been given to it. But we are moving to an environment with affordable water where it is likely to be metred. I wondered if the Minister has considered just removing paragraph (b) and taking water costs out so it\u2019s not excluded\u2014remembering this goes back to 1997\u2014would she consider doing that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EOK, my next question for the Minister is around \u201Cboarder\u201D. We\u2019ve had a number of questions around that, but this is a genuine question around tent-dwellers, some of whom dwell in other people\u2019s tents. We have that situation in Dunedin, and sometimes they are using their equipment and some of them are using dishonest means to get the accommodation allowance because they absolutely need it. So it\u2019s probably not ideal to include a tent-dweller in a boarding definition, but I wondered if the Minister has considered whether there should be an extra provision to provide some kind of accommodation allowance, given the normality now of people living in tents and cars. I will pause, but I have some more questions still on Part 1. So the Minister is not engaging that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESo I want to have a look at clause 5, \u201CSection 65 amended (Accommodation supplement: discretionary grant)\u201D, which is around the accommodation supplement discretionary grant. The word \u201Cdiscretionary\u201D has been taken out. My question is: why? Is this about automated decision-making? Because in the subsequent subsection (2), it talks about \u201Cmay grant a person\u201D, and I\u2019m wondering if there\u2019s kind of trying to make a brightline entitlement. So we have heard that MSD and other organisations are trying to have automated responses, using AI. And I just wondered whether the reason for taking the word \u201Cdiscretionary\u201D out reflects that; and, if not, what is the impact that the Minister would like to see with the removal of that word? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00224a5050c12c3441d897a817fd701dc2e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a5050c12c3441d897a817fd701dc2e9\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I would\u2019ve thought the member was positive about that. By the removal of discretion, it actually means that it will be granted to anyone who is eligible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u002282702077e94a4eaa86644ed21995dcaf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282702077e94a4eaa86644ed21995dcaf\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ve still got some more questions. This is around, again, replacing another title, in section 66, with \u201CAccommodation supplement: social housing exclusion\u201D. I haven\u2019t tried to guess at what that means, but the title has been changed, so I presume the Minister for Social Development and Employment is wanting that to have an impact, and I\u2019m wondering if she could explain that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EIf not, then, looking at clause 6(2), replacing \u201Csection 65\u201D with \u201Csection 65AAA\u201D in section 66(1). This goes back to something that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March alluded to really early on in the piece. He referenced whether it is about making social housing harder. I\u2019d like to unpick that a little bit, because when I look through the legislation, it does seem to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u201CK\u0101inga Ora\u201D has been expressly deleted as a community housing provider, and in that section it is being replaced with \u201Csocial housing\u201D, which is broader. Now, in the deleted subsection, \u201C \u2018social housing\u2019 has the same meaning as in section 2 of the Public and Community Housing Management Act 1992\u201D, but that definition is now deleted. So my question is: what does the Government mean by \u201Csocial housing\u201D in new section 65AAA? Is it deliberate to indicate more privately owned social houses, and is it deliberately undefined\u2014which would be a worry from a policy perspective, because it means it\u2019s really broad; or should it adopt the same meaning currently used in the struck-out subsection, which refers to section 62 of the Public and Community Housing Management Act, and therefore explicitly say so? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ENow, there may be a schedule that captures it, but I don\u2019t think so. And if it does, it\u2019s incredibly unwieldy and difficult to follow. So I\u2019m wondering if the Minister could clarify that, because the problem is that the Act defines \u201Csocial housing\u201D as \u201Csocial housing\u201D, meaning \u201CK\u0101inga Ora housing or community housing\u201D, and a \u201Csocial housing provider means K\u0101inga Ora\u2014Homes and Communities or a registered community housing provider\u201D. It\u2019s still different than what is intended by this section. We really need some clarity on that, Minister, because otherwise the cynical view would be that this is some kind of step to privatise social housing and that you\u2019re trying to broaden the definition. But, otherwise, is there a way that we can get the original definition back in?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI have some other questions as well, because I can see the Minister doesn\u2019t want to respond yet. She\u2019s probably thinking about it. In clause 7, \u201CSection 67 amended (Other funding exclusion)\u201D, the heading is being replaced with \u201CAccommodation supplement: other funding exclusion\u201D. Again, it\u2019s a subtle difference, but I want to understand why the Minister has bothered to change the words there if she hasn\u2019t bothered to define \u201Csocial housing\u201D. What kind of difference does she expect to see from the change in that title? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EOne of the previous speakers referred to the disability community, and I\u2019m not going to go into that except to say, really on behalf of the disabled community, there has been a lot of criticism about partnerships and about the impact of the current laws on those who are in a partnership and one of the partners is disabled. So I\u2019m interested to know if the Minister even bothered to look at that to see if there was an opportunity here to make that fairer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EWhen I go to clause 8(1), \u201CSection 88 amended (Accommodation supplement: special rules for joint tenants who are in relationship\u201D in section 68(1), after \u201Coccupied:\u201D it says \u201Cinsert \u2018as a residence\u2019\u00A0\u201D. Why has she added those words, and what difference does she think that will make to implementation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s another one that probably needs a little bit more clarifying, I think, and is a little bit more concerning, which is in clause 8(2), which amends section 68(1)(b). We\u2019ve got \u201Creplace \u2018accommodation costs\u2019 with \u2018weekly qualifying accommodation costs\u2019\u00A0\u201D\u2014and I think I\u2019ve got an amendment on the Table on this. It looks like this is to limit the costs that will be recognised. Also, that could be changed by regulation, potentially, because \u201Cweekly qualifying accommodation costs\u201D, presumably, is defined somewhere in regulation. Now if that\u2019s a policy change, the legislative guidelines in the Legislative Design and Advisory Committee require those policy dynamics to be in the primary legislation, not in regulation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EMy question is: why are you making it weekly? Why couldn\u2019t you make it monthly or six-monthly so that it isn\u2019t a barrier to access for people who are needing to articulate this all in a weekly budget? But, also, is there an intention that\u2014or does it mean that\u2014this is determined by regulation, and will she consider my amendment just to cross out the \u201Cweekly qualifying\u201D and keep it as it was in the original legislation? Mr Chair, I still have some more detailed questions in Part 1, but I\u2019m getting through them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u00225a60291da6864d998bac7d999bcdc5c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a60291da6864d998bac7d999bcdc5c2\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou. Clause 11 amends section 162, youth support obligations. I want to preface this by saying that my questions will come from the context of working in suicide prevention and postvention for a number of years, and family harm in Te Tai Tokerau and the number of terrible things that occurred back in 2012 and, sadly, still occur today, particularly for young M\u0101ori men and young M\u0101ori boys. So that\u2019s the space. Family harm, as well\u2014young mums, older mums are suffering the types of terrible situations nearly on a daily basis. That\u2019s the context.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ESo clause 11. What works for young people, Minister, is trust and working relationships, and even if it has to be with your Ministry of Social Development (MSD) case worker. Discretion is a key part, in my experience, in my observations, because when you have a trusting relationship, when you can trust that your MSD case worker is going to have your good interests at heart, discretion is a key to be able to apply the practice, and when you take it out, it screws that up. So it troubles me that those sorts of things are being applied, particularly at a time where young people are struggling to trust any authority, which I understand. I mean, I used to work, sadly, in these spaces, so I get how, when these things are applied\u2014even with all the best intention\u2014that these things stuff up, because rules and regulation that are changed like this, without speaking to young people and their families and their communities, you get this kind of messy situation where young people are caught in the churn of this kind of idea making, simply because it suits a certain bunch of people. So I\u2019m concerned about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ESo what appropriate guidance will be offered to ensure that young M\u0101ori beneficiaries\u2014young people\u2014understand their obligations and rights under the new rules? So this is under clause 11. And then, has the Government evaluated the risk of rangatahi M\u0101ori falling out of support due to misunderstandings, administrative errors, and just simply deciding that \u201CYou\u2019ve had enough of a go, young fella, we\u2019re now just going to make the decision for you, at you.\u201D? Look, I don\u2019t mean to mess the Minister for Social Development and Employment\u2019s face up, the way she\u2019s grimacing now\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206d4a5f925ac4eb7892fe37d1b4a545d\u0022\u003EDana Kirkpatrick\u003C/span\u003E: So rude.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edf19e234f0a473981b381b7b89702bf\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Grigg\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf4c95b7bbcc4cc8b5406e39a581a9ef\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and, possibly, that\u2019s a communication and an answer that she\u2019s providing me, which is interesting in itself. But let\u2019s just put it to you and dismiss the noise on the left. That is a real concern, Minister. I know it to be so\u2014I know it to be so. I\u2019ve worked in suicide prevention, postvention, and the risks of that for young people have not changed, at all; in fact, they are heightened by this kind of planning without them. So, Minister, look, honestly, I didn\u2019t mean to cause your face to grimace like that, but these are my questions. I\u2019ll leave it up to you, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2f0901fabbc409891b1445ec200022f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2f0901fabbc409891b1445ec200022f\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00226bffa9448c54481c85a59e991102cd2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bffa9448c54481c85a59e991102cd2b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll indicate to members that at this stage, there\u2019s been a lot of conceptual and policy questions. I think we\u2019re well covered there. Any questions now will be very specific to a part of the bill. I think you\u2019ll hear that message.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u00220366160e3b72423b9b46849aee152e2c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220366160e3b72423b9b46849aee152e2c\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, I have an amendment I\u2019d like to ask about, and it is based on the indication that has been made in, actually, a very early part of the bill, the one that was concerning the number that was being described, so the proportionality. One of the things that is in the supplementary analysis is that the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) says it will do a review. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI would like to propose an amendment that would go in at clause 15 and it would say that we are committed to a review that would include whether the proportion had worked in the time frame of the review, which I suggest should be two years. That would give us time to see what the impact was and review it\u2014and it looks like MSD are already saying they will monitor any unintended consequences; they\u2019re saying there are going to be a lot of them. That one is of particular concern to me, and so I\u2019d like to know whether the Minister for Social Development and Employment would commit to the statement here in an amendment, because it sounds like MSD wants to do that review. It would just be to extend it beyond what is in this to include specifics, including the proportionality\u2014with a proportion of the amount. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d be very keen for an answer about whether the Minister would do that; and, if not, why not? Why wouldn\u2019t we want to do that given the number of unintended consequences? But also, that issue about whether the proportion\u2019s going to have an issue and whether we\u2019re going to have consequences in the housing market in particular, with people\u2014there\u2019s a chilling effect here on people boarding. I\u2019m going to keep my contribution short, because I know my friend Ingrid Leary would love to take a call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2a1597ceec24764b1d46335890d7915\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2a1597ceec24764b1d46335890d7915\u0022\u003EDANA KIRKPATRICK (National\u2014East Coast):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u002293b9dc2458ed4d1392f8dc83a4f5618e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293b9dc2458ed4d1392f8dc83a4f5618e\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019d like to remind the Government members: they rushed this under urgency with no select committee scrutiny. It is well within our right to be asking questions around the impacts of this\u2014I could\u2019ve been asking this to officials outside of the late-night period. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI want to move to clause 14 in relationship to (2) and then the new definitions around \u201Cmarket rent\u201D. This is page 11 of the bill, around line 9\u2014it\u2019s basically line 9 to around line 19\u2014where it talks about how this is defined, \u201Cmarket rent\u201D; that \u201Cfor K\u0101inga Ora housing and for a period, means the rent notified to the agency by K\u0101inga Ora\u2014Homes and Communities\u2014(i) as being the market rent for that housing\u201D. I think there\u2019s an important thing here in the language that the Minister for Social Development and Employment has chosen to use in this clause 14. If we marry up the language in clause 14 plus the supplementary analysis, I want to understand whether, in the definition of \u201Cmarket rent\u201D that she has chosen to use for clause 14, she considered the highest possible market rent that someone could be subjected to after losing the accommodation supplement and while being in public housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think this is important because what it helps us understand is the absolute highest increase someone could be facing in their market rent while being in a K\u0101inga Ora home, for example, as a result of the language that she chose to use in clause 14. This is important because, as we have talked about earlier, there is a genuine impact on people\u2019s lives here. I know that she kept talking about how this bill is agnostic, but the advice that she has been given demonstrates the absolute opposite. So before the members on the Government side laugh and, you know, think that the issue of people suffering is funny, I would recommend that they may want to think about how the definition of \u201Cmarket rent\u201D as laid out in this piece of legislation could have quite a negative impact on people\u2019s ability to retain the K\u0101inga Ora home. So I did want to understand as to whether she did talk to K\u0101inga Ora and the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development specifically about the range of market rents that people could be subjected to, due to the fact that this is specifically defined in clause\u00A014 between line 9 and about 19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI also wanted to understand, if we look at that very same clause\u2014and we\u2019re looking at line 4 to about maybe 40\u2014there is the formula that\u2019s been given. I did want to understand whether this formula is something that she chose to just carry on from previous formulas that have been used for calculating someone\u2019s accommodation income, or whether this is something she chose to review and to seek any engagement with the Ministry of Social Development on as part of the introduction of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI also wanted to understand as to whether the calculation of accommodation income is going to be translated or created into something that is more user-friendly. You know, for someone who may have not pursued formal education and taken a level of advanced mathematics, I can see how they may struggle to, for example, take the formula that is in clause 14 and be able to interpret it in a way that allows an everyday person to understand what accommodation income means for them. There\u2019s a formula that is \u201Ca \u00D7 (1 \u2212 ((b \u002B c \u002B d) \u00F7 e))\u201D. I mean, I can understand this formula\u2014I did complete my calculus while I was in high school and we were taught that\u2014but I can also understand that many people who are boarding may be trying to navigate and understand the changes that she\u2019s making, and I want to know whether she\u2019s devoting any resources to make clause 14 actually digestible for everyday people by resourcing, for example, a portal in the MyMSD website where people can calculate what their accommodation income will be like under clause 14. If not, I can see how the negative distributional impacts of this bill could be exacerbated by people not being adequately able to calculate their accommodation income as in the formula in line 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ESo, to recap, I\u2019m interested to know the highest possible market rent that somebody in K\u0101inga Ora could be affected by this bill, and whether she is thinking of a user-friendly formula.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022 data-id=\u0022dfdd3e5783984d428f497b31fd9fbd10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dfdd3e5783984d428f497b31fd9fbd10\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00224e1fcbeb5b9741b3b46d9c25b56b760e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e1fcbeb5b9741b3b46d9c25b56b760e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: We are getting very close. There is another factor that does come into this: ministerial participation in the debate. I\u2019ll take a call at this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u00225ca3fad0760046c0bdb975b06eb41f2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ca3fad0760046c0bdb975b06eb41f2b\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. We still just have a few more questions on Part 1. The first one is around clause 8(2)(b), amending section 68(1)(b), where it says, \u201Creplace \u2018section 65\u2019 with \u2018\u00A0\u201Cclause 7\u201D of Part 7 of Schedule 4\u2019.\u201D In Part 1 of the principal Act, the Social Security Act, that goes to Subpart 10, \u201CAccommodation supplement\u201D, and specifically, for this part, \u201Cdependent child\u201D, as defined in Schedule 2, excludes \u201Ca child in respect of whom an orphan\u2019s benefit or an unsupported child\u2019s benefit is being paid\u201D. Turning to that, the fact that this has been put in deliberately means, in my reading of the legislation\u2014I\u2019m seeking clarity: does this mean that the orphan\u2019s benefit or unsupported child\u2019s benefit becomes part of the calculation of the deduction of the accommodation allowance, and why did the Minister for Social Development and Employment deliberately go out of her way to ensure that was excluded, if that is the case, if I\u2019m reading it correctly?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThe second one is around tenancy. We\u2019ve got two different definitions of \u201Ctenant\u201D: there\u2019s one in clause 8, and it\u2019s a very specific one\u2014after cash assets\u2014and then we\u2019ve got another one. So I\u2019m just wondering which one supersedes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThe third question I have is in relation to amended sections 69(3A) and (3B), inserted by clause 9, where it has referred to the \u201Crate of zero\u201D, which my colleague the Hon Carmel Sepuloni referred to. This is a bit of a problem, because it says that \u201CMSD must refuse to grant an accommodation supplement\u201D, and \u201CMSD must cancel an accommodation supplement\u201D, and then it\u2019s going about that zero area. Now, my concern is that there\u2019s no discretion there, so the Ministry of Social Development suddenly has no discretion to be able to provide some wiggle room which it has previously. And yet when we look at the following subsection 69(4): \u201CThis section does not limit MSD\u2019s decision to refuse to grant, reduce, or cancel an accommodation supplement\u201D. So this means MSD must cancel an accommodation supplement with no discretion under the new subsections 69(3A) and (3B), and yet it has all the discretion to cancel or to reduce it if it wants to in other circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ENow, that seems to me to be really problematic. It continues the David and Goliath relationship between the principal tenant and MSD, and it makes MSD the judge, juror, and executioner when it comes to eligibility. So if the Minister could please entertain my tabled amendment, I have suggested it would be better to allow them that discretion. Just change the words. Just have 69(3A), \u201CMSD may refuse\u201D; (3B), \u201CMSD may cancel\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EIf I turn to the other ones that I was looking at\u2014Mr Chair, I\u2019m making sure that I\u2019m not going to repeat anything\u2014I would like to see the discrepancy in the section that the Hon Kieran McAnulty referred to where he talked about the unfairness of one working day. We should please have that as two weeks. I think that\u2019s a reasonable period of time to be able to get things in order for people who are\u2014remember, these are boarders who may be transient; they do not necessarily have the same access and skills as others. Two working weeks seems about right. Even a week would be better than a single day. Now, I may have an amendment on the Table in that respect, but, if I don\u2019t, I\u2019d really like the Minister to please consider it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThen the definition of \u201Ctenant\u201D again, in section 6 of the Social Security Act\u2014that is a different definition to replacement section 68(2), inserted by clause 8(3). Why are they different, and why are prospective tenants included, and which one prevails? If somebody\u2019s in a tenancy but they\u2019re going to be in a boarding or social house tenancy for another house, but they haven\u2019t yet moved and they\u2019re in a private boarding arrangement, for the purposes of this section, which tenancy prevails? It\u2019s very unclear under the Act, and I would suggest it would be better if there was just one definition of \u201Ctenancy\u201D. I wonder if that is because the legislation has been rushed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EFinally, I will just look at clause 11, amending section 162 of the Social Security Act: \u201CIf the person resides at any social housing in relation to which the person is an additional resident\u201D\u2014really clunky wording, I\u2019m wondering if the Minister can please explain what that means.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022 data-id=\u002209b803bc3ea249c2ba54c9cad9d0bf5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209b803bc3ea249c2ba54c9cad9d0bf5e\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I am seeking engagement with my questions around how this disproportionately impacts disabled people. I know the Minister for Social Development and Employment has a big interest in this area, so I\u2019m really seeking that engagement. In the Speakers\u2019 rulings, it says that we look for engagement from the Minister along with good conduct from the committee, so I\u2019m really seeking that engagement now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard a range of really important questions from my colleagues on a range of people who will be disproportionately affected. That is in this report, the Including Boarders\u2019 Contributions in the Calculation of Housing Subsidies: Supplementary Analysis Report, from the Ministry of Social Development (MSD). In this analysis, it talks about a range of people who will be disproportionately impacted. We\u2019ve heard it from members on this side of the Chamber, talking about M\u0101ori, Pacific people, older people\u2014and, for my very own question around disabled people: we are seeking that meaningful engagement, because I haven\u2019t heard any of these questions being meaningfully addressed. What we\u2019ve heard is the Minister answer a range of these questions about specific groups of people, mine included\u2014about disabled people\u2014and the Minister\u2019s answer was that this was agnostic. That, in my opinion, doesn\u2019t address the advice analysis\u2014that MSD has provided on pages 25 and 26\u2014that there are disproportionate impacts outlined in this analysis. I\u2019m seeking engagement on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003ETo recap, this is a massive proportion of our society\u201451,459 disabled people\u2014on the supported living payments. When the Minister chose\u2014these people deserve an answer. That\u2019s why I\u2019m seeking engagement on this exact question around how this bill disproportionately affects disabled people, many of them living in K\u0101inga Ora homes. It\u2019s hard to get accessible homes. It\u2019s important that they stay in these homes, and many of the boarders that they have are actually their support workers. So we want to know who\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022503e9f292f0b482d95005b72a231c251\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253cecc53bc724e9e9c9a5c123e335e20\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s literally in the analysis that says disabled people\u2014section 93\u2014\u201Cdisabled people are likely to be disproportionately impacted by the proposed changes because many disabled people live with a support person who pays board. Due to the limited availability of accessible housing within the private housing market and social housing, disabled people often incur additional costs related to their housing as a result of their disability. Many disabled people also have less choice over whether they live with a support person or not\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re talking about a large population of people: 51,459 on the supported living payment; 18,486 on the temporary additional support; and, furthermore, 15,624 on the supported living payment. These people, if there was a select committee process, would have had the chance to ask these questions, to give their lived experience as to why it is so important that they are able to have this subsidy. That\u2019s why I\u2019m seeking engagement from the Minister to answer the questions about why these people who are disproportionately affected\u2014should be answered. Saying that the legislation is agnostic is completely ignoring the advice in the analysis given by MSD.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022 data-id=\u00224da9ee30a5834bd993f26e2f640e9733\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224da9ee30a5834bd993f26e2f640e9733\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00229d278e9e539d4adcb06c36a9d8becf19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d278e9e539d4adcb06c36a9d8becf19\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It\u2019s difficult when we pose questions and then we don\u2019t get a response from the Minister for Social Development and Employment, the Hon Louise Upston. I don\u2019t feel like that is re-traversing areas that have already been covered when we didn\u2019t actually get a response. However, I did say earlier that I was referring to and wanted to raise issues with clause 9 in Part 1, inserting new subsections 69(3A) and (3B), where it talks about the situations with these changes where \u201CMSD must refuse to grant an accommodation supplement if MSD is satisfied that it would, if granted, be payable at a rate of zero.\u201D And I raised the issue around boarders with high and complex needs and the potential for their board payments to be variable or inconsistent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI went away and I actually thought, \u201COK, there is a solution. We can help the Minister by putting up an amendment.\u201D So I have put up an amendment, and I want to speak to that amendment. What I\u2019ve done is add, after the word \u201Czero\u201D in that particular subsection, \u201Cexcept in situations where the lead tenant or homeowner has a boarder with high and complex needs, including but not limited to mental health and addiction, and there is a high risk of inconsistent or variable board payments\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI want the Minister to take that into consideration, because, as has been raised by my colleague Ingrid Leary, this is pretty non-discretionary. The two new subsections here, (3A) and (3B), say the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) \u201Cmust\u201D refuse to grant an accommodation supplement if, etc., and then MSD \u201Cmust cancel an accommodation supplement that has been granted if it has been payable at a rate of zero for eight consecutive weeks.\u201D There\u2019s no discretion in there for the scenario that I\u2019ve just explained, that I\u2019ve added to the amendment that I\u2019m putting forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThere is another option, and the other option is something that we\u2019ve also just recently added to tabled amendments, and that is for the Minister to consider changing the language so that it becomes MSD \u201Cmay\u201D refuse to grant, MSD \u201Cmay\u201D cancel an accommodation supplement. That would provide a level of discretion, at the very least, that may not require the amendment that I\u2019m putting forward, which explicitly states the scenario where you would expect MSD to be able to actually\u2014where it wouldn\u2019t necessarily apply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s two scenarios there I wanted the Minister to turn her mind to, for new subsections (3A) and (3B). She could simply change the language from \u201Cmust\u201D to \u201Cmay\u201D, or she could take on my amendment, which includes the extended version, which spells out a very real and possible situation where they would not have their accommodation supplement refused and where they would not necessarily have their accommodation supplement cancelled. I ask the Minister to consider both options, and to speak to them and to let us know whether she will or will not support, and to give us a rationale for her decision on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002282d98a9e73724ccb84ecca783eba1f26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282d98a9e73724ccb84ecca783eba1f26\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve been clear about time frames and why I\u2019m not accepting any changes to time frames. I\u2019ve been clear about the fact that there are a range of people with different needs and different requirements around boarding, and the legislation is agnostic. We do not want to remove any options in terms of board being an option. It is simply a very simple, practical bill that talks about the fact that any board payment is considered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022 data-id=\u002279c13a7891e54138974c6ba1d59bd04d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279c13a7891e54138974c6ba1d59bd04d\u0022\u003EDr HAMISH CAMPBELL (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f947c4d4e00149798581ab0ef69bba34\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002234f16ff6119d41b98a362e59d0b83a82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234f16ff6119d41b98a362e59d0b83a82\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Willie Jackson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222207b91849bb4aea886ddb1ca6c94e55\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022e56b1944c4684b3ea1caa50929cb6c05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e56b1944c4684b3ea1caa50929cb6c05\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of accommodation costs be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f8b0ea2df23d471b9347de0388eed33e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe2ba9e41ff04bc2bc1cf9d525738be3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe2ba9e41ff04bc2bc1cf9d525738be3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ingrid Leary\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the percentage of contribution to 42 percent be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022288a66ce9ea34ad3bdfb6e41530516cd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002287c5637b1d304afca34bc95566b960d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287c5637b1d304afca34bc95566b960d4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the percentage of contribution to 25 percent be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fe029fa4dbce4fe0aa063b4a82b98c01\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022d49e8782955643b0b1bb2e0593bdce60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d49e8782955643b0b1bb2e0593bdce60\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the percentage of contribution to 28 percent be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022574f225aa4a2486681835a767740211c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00220225e5c7c460443ea0bf68ebc75da1f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220225e5c7c460443ea0bf68ebc75da1f2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Kahurangi Carter\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the percentage of contribution to 28 percent be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fd882f64903f488ea3f5635e946cb3e0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002285b9130f64334094ae3da51a2bcf325c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285b9130f64334094ae3da51a2bcf325c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert \u201Cof over $700\u201D after \u201Cpays for board\u201D in paragraph (a)(i) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a7cfee6cf1a24b66915a80f220d3c0ae\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00229b0388b04b2d4a6aa1d1b1a404f7e417\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b0388b04b2d4a6aa1d1b1a404f7e417\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert \u201Cof over the age of 32 but under the age of 65\u201D after \u201Ca person\u201D in paragraph (a)(i) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229d12f4451c544aaf9f8ca31224cabc86\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022d32e7f8ed7ef4fa7a664aed4b403ab13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d32e7f8ed7ef4fa7a664aed4b403ab13\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert \u201Cat the age of 36\u201D after \u201Ca person\u201D in paragraph (a) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224405da391ceb428a98c775b032bc3629\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002244ca26da64ab466ea1596a729bfbaa77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244ca26da64ab466ea1596a729bfbaa77\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of board to insert \u201Cof over $1,000 pays for board\u201D in paragraph (a)(i) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002221a1ba85fcbc4f95a00f6547650d2fbc\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022ace1c40bfed249b389574dc346c07a5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ace1c40bfed249b389574dc346c07a5f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert \u201Cover the age of 48\u201D after \u201Ca person\u201D in paragraph (a) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a220aee419784a12b378d851df2dc16e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022e927597939824e1b83c74135ed86cd09\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e927597939824e1b83c74135ed86cd09\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert new paragraph (c) to exclude a person under 20 years be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002273bcf1225a2f4fd0a33f824bf81dbb6d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5a9cfb0af6b46a7a30f7dece467c5b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5a9cfb0af6b46a7a30f7dece467c5b1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert new paragraph (c) to exclude a person aged under 19 years be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002282a44c367c724002906b909683197445\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00221916ec7f1abd432a9f331d926c839a9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221916ec7f1abd432a9f331d926c839a9f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert new paragraph (c) to exclude a person aged under 25 years be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e58bdf7f257641849e9c820c1cb15a38\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00229b270d9550dc400d8a1f1aec3e42df8c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b270d9550dc400d8a1f1aec3e42df8c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert new paragraph (c) to exclude a person aged under 24 years be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e247720f187b43d88f5d83cb68f24ad5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00222a2721e8ea1642d798593027d1e0e796\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a2721e8ea1642d798593027d1e0e796\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert new paragraph (c) to exclude a person aged under 23 years be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ff24e511a1ab4c639818282879e778d2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba5165b1859f4bc6957f380611b7822c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba5165b1859f4bc6957f380611b7822c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert new paragraph (c) to exclude a person aged under 22 years be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227d1f1cfb9c1244e482d4376d7a90e435\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00229df039d05ed84c8c9bbf81688e8a30bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229df039d05ed84c8c9bbf81688e8a30bb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert new paragraph (c) to exclude a person aged under the age of adulthood be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224da018837ca546f4be99f04800a06010\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00225fb3224889744b1eb4c0e26a53f09955\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225fb3224889744b1eb4c0e26a53f09955\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert new paragraph (c) to exclude any person who has left a domestic violence situation be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022431dfd59ea6640379294983c68447a0a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022deca73043e5f4ad3b59aaeae11aedbe6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022deca73043e5f4ad3b59aaeae11aedbe6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert new paragraph (c) to exclude any person who will reside in that residence for less than three days be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222b538914df094cf9b46a25cae2c9b1c7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0ab1f6c10824149b0360639d30ebfbd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0ab1f6c10824149b0360639d30ebfbd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert new paragraph (c) to exclude any person who will reside in that residence for less than four days be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e7088ca33fff49468ea870a5001a36c6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00220e9ab1300d6548aaa41ebdc751d7586c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e9ab1300d6548aaa41ebdc751d7586c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert new paragraph (c) to exclude any person who will reside in that residence for less than nine days be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221d678fc3656c4db7a1d233f656fa2c7a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00222cf2be690365432d9b537d01a7ac43e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222cf2be690365432d9b537d01a7ac43e2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert new paragraph (c) to exclude any person who will reside in that residence for less than 11 days be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e1db033245434763b702294bdde1690a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00220164cdc2c444439a9f90cbd6654022c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220164cdc2c444439a9f90cbd6654022c9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert new paragraph (c) to exclude any person who will reside in that residence for less than two weeks be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225f3ad73634a64adcacd71817433a23d9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00224506d85f1c1644faaf1952f8c418a21d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224506d85f1c1644faaf1952f8c418a21d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert new paragraph (c) to exclude any person who will reside in that residence for less than 19 days be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225f38cb5b4ff04be784c2c9e33eb8a4bf\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00226088ac784e1147d3bbacd5019f0ff675\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226088ac784e1147d3bbacd5019f0ff675\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert new paragraph (c) to exclude any person who will reside in that residence for less than three weeks be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022689fb17b425a4f82aeb99015120e86b3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022782911a067c949e69a1f26cbd06005d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022782911a067c949e69a1f26cbd06005d5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert new paragraph (c) to exclude any person who will reside in that residence for less than 29 days be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222bbbbdc0fe364106921c69d0369ab2fd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00225ac23e95416c4f4c8b7ba9bfea847a2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ac23e95416c4f4c8b7ba9bfea847a2a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert new paragraph (c) to exclude any person who will reside in that residence for less than 90 days be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221021a0d835bc4d4ca84baf44dac05d92\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb25752d0a6e4398929cf0103c2591fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb25752d0a6e4398929cf0103c2591fb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert new paragraph (c) to exclude any person who will reside in that residence for less than two months be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002227cafe10d7c64f94b27714b6e6195fff\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc15234f6bbd4f97866a9dd724a39b99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc15234f6bbd4f97866a9dd724a39b99\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert new paragraph (c) to exclude any person who will reside in that residence for less than three months be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a158126395e047c192b870ce13a7d9bc\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022717f889cf8224cf78a32a60ac96b20ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022717f889cf8224cf78a32a60ac96b20ee\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert new paragraph (c) to exclude any person who will reside in that residence for less than four months be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f7f5ab360ef548b08a3001e593cfd485\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00228f4ba2e74c1a4540b66db5de76cd1633\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f4ba2e74c1a4540b66db5de76cd1633\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Kahurangi Carter\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert \u201Cof over $900\u201D after \u201Cpays for board\u201D in paragraph (a)(i) be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022291311871fb942e5b2a088684543e7dc\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022b887da10d1df4453b89421e102dd468b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b887da10d1df4453b89421e102dd468b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert \u201Cof over $700\u201D after \u201Cpays for board\u201D in paragraph (a)(ii) be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d624f7d0c1c749f2ad93a579c6636a3c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00221a614a93481e408783fb809e672d96f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a614a93481e408783fb809e672d96f3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert \u201Cof over $1,000\u201D after \u201Cpays for board\u201D in paragraph (a)(ii) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002200e667e6c5224a82a228d1e0f4e3d08a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00227643189f98c844bd8d3e46833a672fbe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227643189f98c844bd8d3e46833a672fbe\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Kahurangi Carter\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to amend the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D to insert \u201Cof over $900\u201D after \u201Cpays for board\u201D in paragraph (a)(ii) be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002242bc6ad000094cedb9b66b6c36a4ae6a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022fecca68d866f46fa8e0484f059ce12f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fecca68d866f46fa8e0484f059ce12f7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, new section 65AAA, to delete paragraph (b) in the definition of \u201Cservice costs\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002296c541a67e4841b88a1de93c98745b83\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022710cea87f2ed481cb2933153688cb4e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022710cea87f2ed481cb2933153688cb4e5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendments to clauses 4 and 15 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221bdfd54798984653a266455a48758100\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca8aaea899a84c729c24275dc78e4fd2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca8aaea899a84c729c24275dc78e4fd2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 8, section 68(2), to delete paragraph (a)(iii) from the definition of \u201Ccash assets\u201D be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c9552c8777a043ffad6e589b23ee5ce7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00223254ccea118643789a462e9d7c7e3c2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223254ccea118643789a462e9d7c7e3c2a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 8, section 68(2), definition of \u201Ctenant\u201D, to insert \u201Cof over $700\u201D after \u201Cwho pays rent\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224707a8065f7c453bac5f3783e691d6e2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00222b276a46c2e0426abfb0bc6b8a46bee7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b276a46c2e0426abfb0bc6b8a46bee7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Kahurangi Carter\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 8, section 68(2), definition of \u201Ctenant\u201D, to insert \u201Cof over $900\u201D after \u201Cwho pays rent\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226ffd13b6ff174cc09fd6801956b6a37a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022d784996c4373449988d8dfb37d4d7b3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d784996c4373449988d8dfb37d4d7b3e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 8, section 68(2), definition of \u201Ctenant\u201D, to insert \u201Cof over $1,000\u201D after \u201Cwho pays rent\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002212ba49db1c3640128f771deac83b34ad\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00222caf5eb1206d4475b39524943d65f667\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222caf5eb1206d4475b39524943d65f667\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 9, section 69(3A) and (3B), to replace \u201Cmust\u201D with \u201Cmay\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022998128eaa9c1456395a6f18018bad644\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00225903c8f1d3fe4ee1ac69687be65612e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225903c8f1d3fe4ee1ac69687be65612e5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 9, section 69(3A) and (3B), are out of order as being the same in substance as previous amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 9, section 69(3A) and (3B), are out of order as being the same in substance as previous amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 9, section 69(3B), to replace \u201C8\u201D with \u201C12\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f391cfc1a9ec49019efd976324c83fe5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5ec04e5f6d9459fb55c2d4a4b2f6caf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5ec04e5f6d9459fb55c2d4a4b2f6caf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 9, section 69(3B), to replace \u201C8\u201D with \u201C12\u201D is out of order as being the same in substance as a previous amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe question is that Kahurangi Carter\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 9, section 69(3B), to replace \u201C8\u201D with \u201C16\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225f1da99aa631408abbf030193d461b5f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247582032eba04262a51c5a52d9c91f1e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 9, section 69(3B), to replace \u201C8\u201D with \u201C20\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002294a95174ed7c4e7da961c505940fa121\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022981a13fc394a42dba72c09b7f683358b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 9, section 69(3B), to replace \u201C8\u201D with \u201C18\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228cf6e2c114234e56b382e3db1ad50821\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204a9dc8190794016bd860faba6a4fe6f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 10, new section 108A, to replace \u201Cdiscrepancy\u201D and \u201Cdiscrepancies\u201D with \u201Cinconsistency\u201D and \u201Cinconsistencies\u201D in each place be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228df6c683a2bc4ef99d53033a8fa0673e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291e2034bccfb466288eef27ae785f274\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Helen White\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 10, new section 108A(1) and (3), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022687088397eb5487e9c1dcef645c0e431\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6f426522339473287fa6a36e5c762ac\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 10, new section 108A(1)(c), to replace \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C15 working days\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022397426f6810b4ce09d8da2f65cdbd0c6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d252c87c43c44efb0efc3f7d37675cf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Kahurangi Carter\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 10, new section 108A(1)(c), to replace \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C30 working days\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221c7aa98a7b68491ea623171b86dfaaa3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c596aa2367349868314b8fd8dad5a15\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 10, new section 108A(1)(c), to replace \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C10 working days\u201D is out of order as being the same in substance as a previous amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 10, new section 108A(3), to replace \u201C10 working days\u201D with \u201C30 working days\u201D is out of order as being the same in substance as a previous amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 10, new section 108A(3), to replace \u201C10 working days\u201D with \u201C60 working days\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002206da5b3ef92b4d4382beebe583e5ee43\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002217bf7db485f84e4fb09cd41d523a9651\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217bf7db485f84e4fb09cd41d523a9651\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 10, new section 108A(3), to replace \u201C10 working day\u201D with \u201C20 working day\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220a995af4c1394435a64ca15c168e719a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002286fb87d72fb2401ca9c95bef192dc2d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286fb87d72fb2401ca9c95bef192dc2d0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ingrid Leary\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 10, new section 108A(1)(c), to replace \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C20 working days\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f0601afb3fb04d1481e8e6b4daa314a6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00221c14fbe637504632b7492227e817182a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c14fbe637504632b7492227e817182a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Helen White\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 10, new section 108A(4), to replace \u201C8 weeks\u201D with \u201C10 weeks\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022afa478b54f4f4dbc857b67aa2953235c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00225acb3ccde47041eca7c3ab4fe4d754aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225acb3ccde47041eca7c3ab4fe4d754aa\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Willie Jackson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 10, new section 108A(4), to replace \u201C8 weeks\u201D with \u201C12 weeks\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228a72fc1fc5ad4aaaa7507c5552aee533\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00229e8cd18c979145549b2631454c6b8fea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e8cd18c979145549b2631454c6b8fea\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 10, new section 108A(4), to replace \u201C8 weeks\u201D with \u201C12 weeks\u201D is out of order as being the same in substance as a previous amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 10, new section 108A(4), to replace \u201C8 weeks\u201D with \u201C20 weeks\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229a321272101b466bbebb406efac440eb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00224bc6ee3050344f9f96b09d3af0a238f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224bc6ee3050344f9f96b09d3af0a238f1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Kahurangi Carter\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 10, new section 108A(4), to replace \u201C8 weeks\u201D with \u201C16 weeks\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228fe06edf903f45e9b4df23570e9253db\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022abee36e5ddf14ccdb6dc260d3eeb920f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022abee36e5ddf14ccdb6dc260d3eeb920f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to Part 1 to replace references to \u201C62 percent\u201D and \u201C38 percent\u201D with \u201C50 percent\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fa1861042a0d4e35b732411b4198f36d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00227e92ff165bcf493c85c76867c695b0c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e92ff165bcf493c85c76867c695b0c9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to replace clause 14(2) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223dd1e8447d2b4618856c77e124c4ff73\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002245f287e059324a5fb3baa576a87eef06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245f287e059324a5fb3baa576a87eef06\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ingrid Leary\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 14, Schedule 3, to replace \u201C38 percent\u201D with \u201C55 percent\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f16b6d5342c345f183760e06a6818b7d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa93638c3368404fb76f59a8c14968b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa93638c3368404fb76f59a8c14968b0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ingrid Leary\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 14, Schedule 3, to replace \u201C38 percent\u201D with \u201C54 percent\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229ee21f5a124a4dae8c9c5ff0a56e3371\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002224102402c656497d9a89cfe43258e5ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224102402c656497d9a89cfe43258e5ec\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ingrid Leary\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 14, Schedule 3, to replace 38 percent with 53 percent be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002221d3f9d575d24074863c416b276e7214\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022067c0812a2014fee969358f11bdfb8d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022067c0812a2014fee969358f11bdfb8d3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ingrid Leary\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 14, Schedule 3, to replace 38 percent with 52 percent be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022be00d11275fe45038cae2eb59a1282c0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002281004681ee7c4364845965a25ef84237\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281004681ee7c4364845965a25ef84237\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ingrid Leary\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 14, Schedule 3, to replace 38 percent with 51 percent be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222a233155d78a4290a8a8ab2b65a19380\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228bfd5e64f23747da918dccc3f9d672f9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dcde92c7160642b6a639c01786254931\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendments to other legislation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022dcf76093e88842ea948a111a9f0b1338\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dcf76093e88842ea948a111a9f0b1338\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to Part 2. This is the debate on clauses 19 to 30, \u201CAmendments to other legislation\u201D, and Schedules 2 and 3. The question is that Part\u00A02 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00228f5e88bd446c42e9954098cd3c36aa3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f5e88bd446c42e9954098cd3c36aa3f\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Part 2, Subpart 1, clause 25 inserts new section 118A into the Public and Community Housing Management Act 1992. The new section 118A sets out what the agency must do if it identifies a discrepancy in information received that is relevant for the purposes of ascertaining the appropriateness of the income-related rent that a person is or was paying. Now, I\u2019ve got a few concerns about this particular clause, and I think others may take issue with this clause\u2014and probably every other clause in here too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe concern that I have is that the agency, if there is a discrepancy between the two tenants\u2014let\u2019s say there\u2019s a lead tenant and there is someone else living at the property\u2014with regards to how much they are paying for board, then the agency needs to take certain steps. Now, the steps\u2014and I do need to give the context, otherwise what my concerns are is not going to make much sense for the Minister for Social Development and Employment, and the questions won\u2019t either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe agency \u201Cmust notify A and B of the particulars of the discrepancy as soon as reasonably practicable\u201D; if the discrepancy is not resolved to the agency\u2019s satisfaction within 10 working days from the date on which the agency notified A and B of the particulars of this discrepancy, the agency must, on the first working day after the end of the 10-working-day period, provide notification to the social housing provider under section 106 that is applicable: \u201C(a) the rent for the housing must be its market rent for the time being, in accordance with section 72(3); or (b) the rent for the housing [must] be determined by the registered community housing provider but must not exceed its market rent for the time being, in accordance with section 92(3).\u201D What I want to know from the Minister is: what\u2019s the difference?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI\u2019m assuming that (a) is referring to K\u0101inga Ora tenants, and there\u2019s no discrepancy there for K\u0101inga Ora to make a determination of rent being anything less than market rent. Yet a registered community housing provider for the related rent is going to be able to have discrepancy to set it at a different rate to the market rent. I want to know from the Minister: what is the difference, and why could K\u0101inga Ora or the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) not have that same level of discretion to make a determination which means that it isn\u2019t market rent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI also want to know, because obviously there\u2019s always issues\u2014or not always, but there can be issues\u2014with people that are sharing accommodation. What happens if it is found that, actually, there is a reason for the discrepancy? Perhaps the tenant also\u2014one of them\u2014was not able to be contacted. These are often working New Zealanders. They could perhaps be out of the country or not contactable at the time that they\u2019re being contacted about this to have the discrepancy sorted. Is there some kind of provision for them to be reimbursed if the decision is made because of the discrepancy to lift it to the market rent level, given human nature, life happens, sometimes people are not contactable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ESo two very simple questions. We just want to make sure that the safeguards are in place for normal, real-life situations and also want to understand why there would be a different level of discretion for community housing providers versus the State when it comes to determining the level of rent in these situations. Why is it that the State would just immediately move to market rent, even though they could have information that shows that, even if the worst-case scenario in terms of the differences for how much board is being paid\u2014perhaps it doesn\u2019t even meet the test for market rent? So why the difference?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EAnd then also, in the instance that they have a good reason for the fact that they were not able to support with getting this resolved within the time frame, will there be a reimbursement so that these people\u2014or person\u2014are not out of pocket?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u002246f03278a5fb482fbc65482a334bcff2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246f03278a5fb482fbc65482a334bcff2\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Just some quick questions because we will have quite a few of them, so I\u2019ll keep them brief in the hope that I\u2019ll get more calls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ETo supp on the question of the previous speaker, Carmel Sepuloni, I do have, in fact, an Amendment Paper that might resolve it for the Minister. So instead of having, \u201Cwithin 10 working days\u201D, just to be able to get some discretion back into this bill, because we\u2019re seeing how Draconian it is, an easy and elegant solution would be my Amendment Paper, which says, \u201Cto replace \u201810 working days\u2019 with \u2018a reasonable time\u2019 \u201D, given all the circumstances of (a) and (b). So each time 10 working days is mentioned, just to elegantly insert that, and that does give the Ministry of Social Development discretion, but it also means it\u2019s going to be reasonable that taxpayers know that they will use that in a good way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245b4fdea98f8453e81b4878b9a63ca6b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just check with the member what\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8d7990c06aa4a6f82f6840655c795eb\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY\u003C/span\u003E: This is referring to new section 118A and then subsection (3) and subsection (3)(a). Also in subsection (b)\u2014I\u2019ll refer to that one first since we\u2019re there: it talks about \u201Cmust not exceed its market rent for the time being\u201D. I\u2019m just wondering what that means, because it\u2019s also referred to in clause 20, \u201CSection 73 amended\u201D, and it says, about K\u0101inga Ora homes, that it must be market rent \u201Cfor the time being\u201D. That is a really loose term and doesn\u2019t provide any certainty for those who are impacted by it. I\u2019m wondering what the policy reason is for that, and whether there could be a tighter definition, or is this going to be just something that\u2019s just going to go on and on and on\u2014there\u2019s no certainty for those who are impacted; or is the Minister referring to the time being, because, perhaps, it\u2019s been referred to in some other legislation that we don\u2019t have in front of us? I will have more contributions, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00228dc835dc52f44d9fb87c97151e8af6c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228dc835dc52f44d9fb87c97151e8af6c6\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I think the previous speaker, the Hon Carmel Sepuloni, answered her own question in terms of why it was market rates for K\u0101inga Ora. The simple answer is that they set the market rent, so that is why they\u2019re separate. Community housing providers have targeted support for their cohorts. They are independent contracted services, and their agreements specify that they are able to determine the rent. So they are able to determine it being less than the market rent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EIn terms of these disputes, I did refer to this in terms of Part 1. I said that I would not be entertaining any changes around any time frames, so I\u2019m not going to repeat myself there. Ten days is to provide certainty for the two parties that are in dispute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe previous member raised the suggestion that if somebody had gone overseas and they weren\u2019t contactable\u2014well, if they were a boarder that had gone overseas, they\u2019re clearly not eligible for the accommodation supplement because they are out of the country. The housing arrangement now doesn\u2019t exist; the housing arrangement has been null and void. So, therefore, it\u2019s pretty clear what would happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u00221df49a9dfe0c4368823f2740e1bdcd37\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221df49a9dfe0c4368823f2740e1bdcd37\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. This is our first call in relation to clause 25. I did want to touch on the answer the Minister just gave in relationship to the disparity that has been unpacked in relationship to community housing providers and State housing providers. I wanted to ask\u2014the Minister just talked about how community housing providers don\u2019t have, I guess, the same level of access to just determine the market rate rent. But I did wonder whether\u2014and I ask this because, again, we would be able to ask this in the select committee, should this have not been progressed under urgency and we could have just gotten some answers in writing from the agency, quite likely, and we would have been able to even summon, potentially, K\u0101inga Ora or invited community housing providers to submit around what, if any, analysis does the Minister have in relationship to the distribution of what market rate rents are for community housing providers across the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EBecause I worry that, for example, the way that this has been laid out\u2014and particularly, too, the ability to either set the rent for the housing at market rent for the time being or determined by the community housing provider but not exceed its market rent. I did wonder whether that could inevitably lead to community housing providers acting in a punitive manner because of that ability that they would have to determine which option they use\u2014something that K\u0101inga Ora wouldn\u2019t have. What safeguards has the Minister created to avoid community housing providers potentially choosing to act punitively?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EAnd then I\u2019m keen to understand if the Minister asked for a range of market rents that community providers, housing providers, could lay out. I ask this because this is really tied to a lot of the analysis that\u2019s been provided around low-income people being affected by this. If we have a community housing provider in an area that has been gentrified recently and is facing higher than previous market rents when, for example, the tenant moved in, the material impact that people could face if a community housing provider puts the rent up to market rate could be disastrous. It could push people out. So I\u2019m really curious to know as to whether the Minister did ask for the range of market rents that exist for people and community housing providers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThe other thing that I wanted to ask in relationship to this clause is what level of consultation, if any, she did have with community housing providers across the country on this specific clause. I think that we did see in the analysis there was limited stakeholder engagement. It\u2019d be good to know\u2014because beneficiary advocates, for example, in that analysis, provided really critical feedback. They didn\u2019t seem to like her proposals. She didn\u2019t seem to care. But I\u2019m curious to know as to whether\u2014and that is in the paper; it\u2019s not just my opinion, by the way. They were critical\u2014that\u2019s in the paper itself. But I am curious to know what engagement she had with community housing providers around the provisions in clause 25. If she did not have any engagement with community housing providers specifically around giving them those two options, how is she satisfied that these will be suitable for them if she did not consult with them? So I\u2019m keen to test the level of assurances that were given by those providers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EAnd, secondly, does she think that community housing providers will need additional resourcing or staffing to then be able to have the capacity and the ability to determine this? Will her ministry then be engaging with community housing providers to communicate that now they will be having these two options and how will she ensure that these are applied rightly so? And if, for example, a tenant isn\u2019t satisfied with the option the community housing provider has chosen, will they have a recourse and ability to challenge this decision made by the community housing provider? Again, these are all questions we could have unpacked at the select committee stage more thoroughly, but none the less they deserve scrutiny right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad00c140ffdf4ab698d5c31462fbe42e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad00c140ffdf4ab698d5c31462fbe42e\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. It is just a quick follow-up. Just making sure that I heard the Minister for Social Development and Employment correctly\u2014that she said you could not travel overseas and maintain or retain eligibility for the accommodation supplement. Can she clarify that? Because I\u2019m looking online\u2014and maybe this bill changes it; we only just got it recently, so we haven\u2019t had a chance to traverse it as much as she has\u2014but online, it says you can continue receiving the accommodation supplement for up to 28 days while you\u2019re overseas, if you still need to pay for accommodation costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EObviously, the point of me asking this is that, if there is a discrepancy between tenants and there is an attempt to try and ascertain what is right there, if one\u2019s not even in the country and able to respond, does that mean that their rent will automatically be shifted without them having an ability to impact that, and then will they be reimbursed? But I do need to ask her to clarify what she was saying earlier, because what I heard seems to be at odds with the advice that I see online.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd8bbedcf368468e8301751942839157\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd8bbedcf368468e8301751942839157\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E No, because the member referred to the fact that if there was a dispute and someone was overseas and couldn\u2019t be contacted\u2014how would they resolve that dispute?\u2014and I was simply saying if they\u2019d abandoned that, if they\u2019d gone overseas and were no longer in contact, if they\u2019d been out of the country for a period of time beyond that, then clearly the housing relationship had ended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022c656de5af3a84a1d86ffa13139dd1625\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c656de5af3a84a1d86ffa13139dd1625\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to come back to some of the questions that were asked earlier tonight, but I\u2019ve actually got a new amendment. So I want to come to clause 20, replacing section 73(4) of the Public and Community Housing Management Act in terms of, in the case of an increase in rent, consideration is given to the principles of the Treaty. The Minister has not yet once responded to any questions with regards to M\u0101ori, tikanga M\u0101ori, partnership, consultation with iwi, consultation with NGOs. I have consulted with colleagues around the House, and it is a concern that she continues to ignore the question, given the negative statistics that we\u2019re dealing with all the time in this area. So we\u2019re talking, as I keep saying, about the high M\u0101ori unemployment, which has gone up to 10.5 percent, I believe, and that was an increase\u2014no increase in terms of unemployment in terms of the general stats, but in terms of M\u0101ori unemployment stats\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296fb3d687cfc40bab9be4bbc774067ef\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd7c23a8f2694f48a488a1831209d91f\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you should have been listening earlier, but I\u2019ll repeat it just for you, since you\u2019ve got problems with your ears. So the question is, as I said\u2014just for that member; I don\u2019t mind repeating it at all\u2014it\u2019s: will she consider amending section 73(4) to \u201CIn the case of an increase in rent, that consideration be given to the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi\u201D\u2014which I know the National Party values and supports very much, unless David Seymour asks them otherwise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI say that seriously because we\u2019ve had a number of questions tonight that the Minister has not answered with regards to partnerships and relationships with M\u0101ori. I know, herself, where she\u2019s based, she probably\u2014I assume\u2014would have a relationship with T\u016Bwharetoa. I\u2019m asking that, given the statistics, given the pressures on te ao M\u0101ori, given what\u2019s been happening lately, that due consideration is given to this amendment that has been put up, and also understanding that if you\u2019re supporting the principles of the Treaty, you\u2019re talking about participation, you\u2019re talking about partnership, you\u2019re talking about working with M\u0101ori\u2014when, where, how, who has the Minister spoken with; which NGO, which iwi? Has she consulted with her local iwi? Has there been a process of consultation on this, given the ramifications and consequences, which are huge for M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe other thing, of course, is that it is actually in the Ministry of Social Development supplementary analysis report in terms of M\u0101ori being overrepresented in all areas, M\u0101ori being disproportionately impacted by the reduction in financial support available to households with boarders\u2014M\u0101ori are overrepresented according to the report, and social housing. So this would surely be one of the referencing points for the Minister\u2014and it\u2019s very, very clear about the adverse impacts on M\u0101ori at the moment, and yet tonight we have not received one response from the Minister with regards to obligations from the Government on that, and hence that\u2019s why we\u2019re putting up this very, very reasonable amendment at this time, replacing clause 20, amending section 73(4), with references to principles of the Treaty. I\u2019m giving the Minister an opportunity, and this Government\u2014and the National Party, in particular\u2014a chance to free themselves from the nonsense from the ACT Party, who continually want to get rid of any references with regards to the Treaty right across legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ESo I would ask the Minister for a reply, a response, to that amendment which has been put up now and, of course, has been put up earlier\u2014and, of course, much k\u014Drero about te ao M\u0101ori, with no response. I put that to the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022 data-id=\u0022d58be9eab17843d09c3ae1f476f477da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d58be9eab17843d09c3ae1f476f477da\u0022\u003EBENJAMIN DOYLE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair; I appreciate that greatly. I wish to talk to a point that the Green Party haven\u2019t had a chance to speak to in this Part 2 yet. It does build on what the Hon Willie Jackson was speaking about, but it is a new and distinct point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003EThe Hon Willie Jackson was referring, of course, in the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s report, the supplementary analysis report, to page 23, when referring to distributional impacts for M\u0101ori. My focus, instead, is on page 26 and relates to clause 23 of Part 2, around section 107, which is around calculating income-related rent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003EI have concerns that I\u2019d seek clarification and also some reassurance from the Minister on regarding the risk that the report outlines of the Crown breaching obligations under the articles of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. So this is distinct from the discussion around principles, which has been referred to by the previous speaker in regards to an amendment. I\u2019m interested in how the Minister\u2014I\u2019m just interested in the Minister\u2019s response: I was hoping the Minister could reassure me of how she will mitigate the risk of breaches that the Crown might make of its obligations to the Treaty?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003ENow, my concerns come from the fact that we know from census data from 2023 that, per 10,000 M\u0101ori, 394 M\u0101ori are living in severe housing deprivation. This social determinant is disproportionately impacting on that population group, that demographic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003EThis is, potentially, a breach of Crown obligations to Te Tiriti o Waitangi as outlined in this Ministry of Social Development (MSD) document.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282ff032214594e2ca3686a1b02644d8d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re not debating Treaty breaches. We\u2019re debating, in the clause you\u2019ve referred to, income-related rents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022910a386d3d2841efadda890ac94ca41f\u0022\u003EBENJAMIN DOYLE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff6b7aff02704af08bac9fb1eb84e5ab\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I\u2019d like to seek your clarification on that very interjection, because this is a bill that\u2019s under urgency. We did not have a select committee period. The MSD advisers specifically quote that. So I\u2019d like to seek some genuine good-faith guidance on how you would like us to approach bringing up issues that could have been raised at select committee, as normally is allowed during scrutiny of the committee of the whole House during urgency\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8c763330598426e801a7337862b0748\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: We are debating parts and sections in Part 2, and we are straying away from income-related rent calculations into another field. I\u2019m just bringing the speaker\u2014the member\u2014back to the part of the bill that he started.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022674d7e07f5e94039b2526de3d15deea6\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a02add379f1b405cbbaeedc31d641d7a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: No, we\u2019re just going to carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cfdfa2cd3bb455aac0d96a0fb6c1092\u0022\u003EBENJAMIN DOYLE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. That\u2019s fine. I\u2019ll quickly wrap it up with my question. So in regards to my concerns around the adjustments to income-related rents: the point is that M\u0101ori, we know, earn less, and so therefore are more likely, as the report says, to be disproportionately affected by this change. I\u2019m seeking assurance from the Minister on how she will make sure that that disproportionate effect does not take place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220aa52f4ada014e1eb05469327607eb89\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to draw your attention to Standing Order 316 around amendments of member in charge. So, essentially, what we have is a whole lot of amendments that are similar. Under Speaker\u2019s rulings 111/3, it says quite clearly if they\u2019re having a similar effect or can be grouped together and voted on as one. I would submit to you, Madam Chair, that we have had many examples of that through this debate and that there are many that are on the Table that are similar. They should be grouped together and voted on as one\u2014not being taken with a couple of words different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254c98fcd0a0e49b0b0c0acc0398f292e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I understand the point of order. I\u2019ll talk to the Clerks about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf1eddf3b0ed495e83483557b39fd61d\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, well I\u2019ve already spoken to the Clerks. So I think it\u2019s very clear under the Standing Orders. It\u2019s very clear under the Speakers\u2019 directions here. I think it\u2019s crystal clear, actually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266722e6589d446748afed00c7c45e24d\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order. I thank Mr Smith for acknowledging that. However, that\u2019s a matter that should be addressed when it comes to presiding officer determining how votes are taken at what point they\u2019re taken, which is obviously a matter for your discretion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022417292d454aa4a56ac047e68f0848810\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac5854898ac044bbadb10afb2001d128\u0022\u003EMaureen Pugh\u003C/span\u003E: Is it relevant?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d48ec8beb8324c4aa563a19ace9f6255\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: It is. The chairperson may select a handful of indicative amendments on which to put a question in order to test the will of the committee. I\u2019ve asked before, a couple of times, for the vote to consider putting in a selection of indicative amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022168a1ece4d3c4a81a2e9b3be15c4fcb9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, I understand the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3d9c57ee51843a68c0b65226660afc6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3d9c57ee51843a68c0b65226660afc6\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. In light of the Minister for Social Development and Employment\u2019s previous answer to my colleague the Hon Carmel Sepuloni regarding the difference between the accommodation supplement and a benefit, I just want to be really clear that the Minister is basically saying that there will be some kind of\u2014in a way, it\u2019s a parity between the accommodation supplement, which working people can get; so if they were to go overseas, for example, to a funeral, under the legislation\u2014and given the answer that you have just given to my colleague\u2014if there was a discrepancy, without even the discrepancy being resolved, there would be a 10-day period and then they would no longer be eligible. That is quite a different policy from how we see the accommodation supplement currently, and it also puts a different burden of proof, because there is an entitlement to the accommodation supplement, which now is basically taken away without the facts being established.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESo my question is: did she really intend that answer, and is that really her policy intent? If it is not, then perhaps she could consider an amendment. I do not have one on the floor; I could draft one. But it would be relatively simple to have another subsection that just said, \u201CIn the event of overseas travel or other activities that would prevent the discrepancy from being resolved, the Ministry of Social Development would have a discretion to be able to extend that period.\u201D Otherwise, this is an incredibly big change to the policy, which is now saying that working people are being treated the same as those who are beneficiaries in terms of what their entitlements are. I can\u2019t believe the Minister is intending that, and I would really like to seek her clarification. If that is her intention, I promise I won\u2019t ask further questions about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022876972bdb99545d489bcd2597765470b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022876972bdb99545d489bcd2597765470b\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E The comment I made to the question from Carmel Sepuloni was related to disputes and the 10 days. I answered in Part 1; I\u2019m answering it again now. I\u2019m not going to entertain any change to an increase of time from the 10 days. I\u2019ve stated that multiple times in the committee now. I will state it again: I will not entertain any change for the 10 days, because what we don\u2019t want to see either is people receiving too much in terms of the accommodation supplement that then creates a debt that they have to pay back. So we want certainty. If there was a situation, and the previous member stated where the person couldn\u2019t be contacted because they were overseas as an example\u2014so I\u2019m not talking about any change, and I don\u2019t want to be misrepresented in this committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7b18f5a91814b158ecef9b77a6eafa0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7b18f5a91814b158ecef9b77a6eafa0\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you so much, Madam Chair. I wanted to draw your attention to Subpart 2\u2014this is in clause 26, \u201CSchedule 4 amended\u201D. This is \u201CAmendments to Public and Community Housing Management (Prescribed Elements of Calculation Mechanism) Regulations 2018\u201D. One of the reasons why I want to draw attention to this is because, as you may remember, in Part 1 we discussed the definition of \u201Cboarder\u201D, and that\u2019s now been defined in the legislation and changes to the Social Security Act. But in the changes to the amendments to public and community housing management, there\u2019s a different word that has been used. That is \u201Cresident\u201D. I did wonder whether that was intentional. For example, this language in these changes that talks about, in clause 29, \u201C(aa) for a person who is an applicable person in relationship to any social housing,\u2014(i) the value of any goods or services provided or paid for\u2014(A) by an additional resident;\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ESo the word \u201Cresident\u201D is used in this part of the legislation, but I note that she made big efforts to define \u201Cboarder\u201D in the Social Security Act amendments\u2014so the Social Security Act and changes in Part 1. I wonder what the rationale was to use different language here, because that, to me, then means she could be creating different sets of categories. What could distinguish a boarder, as she has defined in the Social Security Act, amended under this bill, from a resident? That, to me, doesn\u2019t seem to be the intent. If I\u2019m on the wrong track, I would like to seek some clarification. Once again, I\u2019m asking these questions because this is exactly the kind of stuff on which we could have sought views and opinions and exchange with the Parliamentary Counsel Office and officials, but the only recourse I have, to seek clarification here, is under the committee of the whole House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ESo I just want to make sure that the language around \u201Cresident\u201D is intended to be this way, or whether she would have meant \u201Cboarder\u201D. If it was the former, we would be quite happy to table an amendment to make sure there\u2019s consistency in the language. But we wouldn\u2019t want to do that if this is how the Minister intended it to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EAgain, this is important because, with the Government also moving to remove plain-language use in legislation, I worry that then people reading different parts of the legislation\u2014legislation that she\u2019s changing\u2014that we\u2019ll then start seeing different language.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ESo to summarise, I\u2019m pointing attention to the Chair to clause 29, the use of the word \u201Cresident\u201D and whether this is distinct from the definition she made in relationship to \u201Cboarder\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00228a900671dd904b80b2c2a010b5a42307\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a900671dd904b80b2c2a010b5a42307\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Subpart 1 of Part 2 is \u201CAmendments to Public and Community Housing Management Act 1992\u201D, which has a different definition. The term \u201Cadditional resident\u201D in that piece of legislation is equivalent to \u201Cboarder\u201D in the Social Security Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205b57c4d8e6d45b6ad83e086eead8064\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to draw your attention to 17 tabled amendments that were lodged at 9.50 p.m. by the Labour Party. They are all repetitive. I think they should be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201c65caa20b34ffcbea2d1eecabe4cd6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I have got the Clerks working on it. The difficulty we have is that because of the volume, it\u2019s going to take some time to group them, but the Clerks are working on that now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223118dacaaef74d79b068b23d4b207798\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019d be happy to just take one vote on them\u2014we\u2019d be quite happy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244fc2d4c05574573b23cf5d84968d97e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure you would be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022185ba9724cf34c08af0cff2db9a7c10d\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order. Thank you, Madam Chair. This is, essentially, the second time that the Government have raised this issue. I would ask that if you\u2019re going to be, effectively, asked to consider that prior to the vote being taken, I would also like to point out that those specific amendments that have been tabled by the Labour Party relate specifically to individual clauses that cross-reference, particularly, other, specific pieces of legislation and other sections. So for Mr Smith to indicate that they are all seeking to perhaps delete a section or a clause, yes, that is correct. However, the implication and impact of those are discretely, quite specifically, in isolation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0ec9f5d20614f8a8aa22dd8c057fb7b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: And I assure you, that will all be taken into account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235d3fe27a39f46bdb8dbccadc941e59e\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226680820b830242eabbddac433ef41625\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: No, I think we\u2019ve covered this. We\u2019ve got a team working on it as we speak. We cannot do anything until we get towards the end of the debate to be sure that there are no more tabled amendments and, until then, there\u2019s not very much else we can do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249581403fce94c9abace01214c381c8d\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: But they are trifling with the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222644259a2f0f4dc8972ac6c8824a19ca\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s my call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022aec1df5c47724e83b5981698ec5200f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aec1df5c47724e83b5981698ec5200f0\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want the Minister, the Hon Louise Upston, to look at clause 25, and it\u2019s new section 118A, \u201CDiscrepancies in information received relevant to income-related rent\u201D. Now, when I went through that paragraph, it was incredibly difficult to make sense of the way it\u2019s written. You go down to (1)(c) of that\u2014sorry, you have to almost read the whole thing to even try to make sense of it\u2014but it seems to be in a very strange order. Some of the matters relate to a process which doubles back on themselves. So you\u2019ve got a process in (1)(c) where you have to have done the following before that takes part. It doesn\u2019t seem a very logical order for things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EAnd then you have, in new subsection (2), \u201CThe agency must notify [people]\u201D. That seems to be something that has to happen over the whole section. So I\u2019m wondering whether the Minister can see that: that there is a process piece which should be all together, and that (2) should be removed and put further down. It belongs to where new subsections (4) and (5) are, because they\u2019re prescriptive for the whole section. I still am not very happy with the way that (c) is worded, because it doesn\u2019t flow. I presume that\u2019s just because people have been incredibly busy rushing this through, but I am concerned about what it means in terms of what order things go in. So if the Minister can just work through, with me, what is it that somebody does under that new section? What order do they go in? Because you\u2019ve got a one-day window, and I\u2019m not sure, reading this, which bits go first, basically. And I know it\u2019s 11 o\u2019clock at night, and it might just be that I haven\u2019t had enough sugar, but I suspect it\u2019s not, and it\u2019s actually because the clause refers to things in a very strange way and it loops right round. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo could the Minister describe what an ordinary person who reads the Hansard or is expected\u2014what is the way that this is supposed to go? Does the Minister know? Because it would be a good start, because I certainly can\u2019t work out which order these things go in, and whether the Minister would have an amendment where we took (2) and we put it down the bottom. I can see the Minister is nodding her head, but that\u2019s not really an answer for the record. So I would like an answer for the record as to whether this clause is suboptimal in its drafting, so that people will get confused; and what happens in the one day? Just what happens in the one day? What is that group supposed to have done, and in what circumstances do they do it? Who do they notify? Do they notify before the one day? Do they notify before the 10 days? Can we just have the order of what\u2019s supposed to happen in that section?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022766310d551494cba994016aacacfe8c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022766310d551494cba994016aacacfe8c1\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E The Ministry of Social Development identifies a discrepancy. They check their records. If they can\u2019t resolve it in one working day, they notify the clients of the discrepancy. Then the 10 days start.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u002220983d8f73f04f99a6b2b11ad6518b08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220983d8f73f04f99a6b2b11ad6518b08\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Look, I think I can help everyone tonight, because they\u2019re hearing a lot of repeat questions, so I\u2019m always happy to help the Government in this area. I\u2019m doing that by talking about two or three amendments that I\u2019m sure will help matters. In Part 2, amend clause 23: after the words \u201Chousehold income\u201D, insert and replace it with \u201Chousehold residential p\u016Btea\u201D. I think the Government will be happy with that. That\u2019s M\u0101ori, just in case some of them didn\u2019t know on the other side. I\u2019m going down this track because, given what\u2019s happening and given that we\u2019ve got a Minister tonight who hasn\u2019t answered one M\u0101ori question, it\u2019s probably appropriate that I put another M\u0101ori question and another M\u0101ori amendment. While there\u2019s complaints about repetition, us on the M\u0101ori side here haven\u2019t had one response with regards to partnership, with regards to commitment, with regards to te reo M\u0101ori, and so that\u2019s why I want to help the Minister by putting up a very reasonable amendment like that. Amend clause 23, after the words \u201Chousehold income\u201D, by inserting and replacing with \u201Chousehold residential p\u016Btea\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EAlso, I want to go even a little bit further, just for the Government, because I know in their hearts they want to support te reo M\u0101ori but, sadly, have shown some sort of strange attitude and strategy towards it over the last few days, particularly with regards to the M\u0101ori language signs. In Part 2, amend clause 23, after the words \u201Chousehold income\u201D, by inserting another option, \u201Chousehold p\u016Btea\u201D. It\u2019s another amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThen another one, just for the Minister to consider, is after clause 23, insert and replace it with \u201Chousehold kete moni\u201D, which is about having money in a kit\u2014very, very accessible for M\u0101ori at ground level\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb54f070b2fc452db13e4fa07c632c8c\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: Are you gifting it to the House, Willie?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5368ede117943b9a28303d3c6316779\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Mr Mooney, who have been suffering under your Government and need some support. So I\u2019m asking again, in connection with the earlier questions, what is the commitment from this Government in the Treaty area? What is the relationship with ng\u0101 iwi M\u0101ori, with m\u0101t\u0101waka? What is the consultation process? All of this is linked to the M\u0101ori questions, and I think it\u2019s appropriate, given the Minister\u2019s own organisation\u2014the Ministry for Social Development (MSD)\u2014is particularly clear about this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293192e5a819b4c638c4e616652371df0\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: Only got one minute 51 seconds\u2014you can do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1aa6c8b78aa45f9a08a695d7d8a2997\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that there has to be regard for the negative statistics and the huge disparities that are happening at the moment. Mr Mooney knows, as he chairs our Social Services and Community Committee. Sadly, he doesn\u2019t understand what I\u2019m talking about tonight, but it goes with the flow in terms of National Party MPs. But we have MSD, who are the major player here, saying to the Minister, saying to the Government, that there must be some regard for M\u0101ori. There must be some regard in terms of the partnership. And we\u2019ve had a Minister here tonight who hasn\u2019t answered one question, not one question, with regards to M\u0101ori, whether it\u2019s from me, the Greens, Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014not one response have we had. What does that say to our communities out there? It says that we have got a Government that does not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fe841c434714e329d346947643e494d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Come back to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc73409ba9444ddb87833ea5a3203e70\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m coming back to it. We\u2019ve got a Government that doesn\u2019t care about te reo M\u0101ori, doesn\u2019t care about the statistics, doesn\u2019t care about what\u2019s happening at ground level. So I reiterate: Part 2, amend clause 23 after the words \u201Chousehold income\u201D by inserting and replacing it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cc1da467a254966a3eae054fb3f339a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Got it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226389038af803465398b7f785ba7a847b\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014with \u201Chousehold kete moni\u201D. You got that, Madam Chair? You don\u2019t need me to continue? No? Quite happy to! Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u0022d29e0c877c4d48659288595b19733c7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d29e0c877c4d48659288595b19733c7c\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh): I\u2019m going to take one or two more questions, but I\u2019ve got to say, even the Labour Party is saying they\u2019re repeating themselves, so there\u2019s very little left here. I\u2019ll take a call from Steve Willis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March: Thank you, Madam Chair. So\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh): Sorry, Scott Willis. Sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022 data-id=\u00222877ad2fa6264e268d79a0fb566732e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222877ad2fa6264e268d79a0fb566732e5\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate this opportunity, because this is the first time I have been able to take a call on this subject. [Interruption] I hear some surprise from across the committee. My real concern for this in Part 2 is that I\u2019m thinking that we have an issue here with the healthy homes Act, and what we\u2019re understanding is that this Act has been in place for quite some time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afb26f823f834391b29f7acba5052d44\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: 1992.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261031cc66a2a41ce9de78e9847d42d0a\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u20141992, in fact\u2014and this is something that we are finding that even K\u0101inga Ora isn\u2019t aware of or isn\u2019t necessarily making sure that properties are up to scratch. So if we\u2019re thinking that we are now looking at the increase in rent for K\u0101inga Ora homes\u2014this is clause 20, replacing section 73(4) with: \u201CIn the case of an increase in rent, the notice must comply with section 24 of the Residential Tenancies Act 1986, except\u2014(a) subsections (1)(d) to (h) and (1A) of that section do not apply to the increase in rent if K\u0101inga Ora\u2014Homes and Communities has received a notification from the agency under sections 106 and 118A(3) of this Act that the rent for the housing must be its market rent for the time being: (b) to the extent that section 74 of this Act provides otherwise, in any other case.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003ENow, my concern is that we don\u2019t know\u2014we don\u2019t know\u2014whether the rent, and how appropriate K\u0101inga Ora has been with its tenants to make sure that the properties that they are renting respect the healthy homes Act. So the answer I\u2019d like from the Minister is: if we are assuring that they are complying with the Act, which Acts are they complying with? Are they also complying with the healthy homes Act? Because we know that this is not something that is being complied with at the moment, and this is something that has been widely\u2014widely\u2014talked about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b21fada71954ba1bfee90e0b51360ec\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: As it relates to this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdc246dccc0c440dbd6ddb6ceaf2a3f7\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: So to bring it back to the changes in rent, which is the section 73 amended, if the Minister could be clear, if we are looking at rental properties, how are we going to make sure that these properties are actually suitable to be rented? Are they up to standard? Are they meeting existing Acts, or is this simply a fix that is ignoring the problems that already exist in the sector? So if the Minister could give us a response to that, I would really appreciate it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EIf you\u2019d forgive me, Madam Chair, I\u2019ve come to this with a particular focus, because this is something that is a real problem for our most vulnerable, and it happens even to those who are renting K\u0101inga Ora homes. So we need to be mindful not to create extra problems, extra situations, by overlooking the existing challenge that we have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d really appreciate a response from the Minister, and that is in relation to \u201CSection 73 amended (Changes in rent)\u201D. The section that says, \u201CReplace section 73(4)\u201D\u2014and I read that out before, so you can pick that up. But also, clause 21, \u201CSection 93 amended (Changes in rent)\u201D \u201CReplace section 93(4) with: (4) In the case of an increase in rent, the notice must comply with section 24 of the Residential Tenancies Act 1986\u201D, which relates to the healthy homes standards. So if the Minister would like to give a response, I would really appreciate it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00223916aaeb0e434b05a15c13f039bc77e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223916aaeb0e434b05a15c13f039bc77e8\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E This is a very simple piece of legislation. It\u2019s very tight. It\u2019s about the relationship between boarders and the accommodation supplement and their income-related rent. It\u2019s got nothing to do with the healthy homes regime. I know that that might be of interest to that member, but it has got zero to do with this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022 data-id=\u002249139674b47245b3aad11a589aed2a77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249139674b47245b3aad11a589aed2a77\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move that debate on this now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00223f0c083392744ff88284f9eff7bcae4a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f0c083392744ff88284f9eff7bcae4a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a89441981ba4d3393322a76207cc489\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022205522dac0e6456f8199d34c90b6392d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: All those in favour, please say Aye.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c826ce6468a74a92a0e3f11efe2942b7\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order was called.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecba77af8e65468da9939069439c94d9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re taking a vote. All those in favour, please say Aye, to the contrary, No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022558960fddcaa418cb458de1157fd37e5\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcfe728ca53f47e2ae01be964214f4cc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The Ayes have it. The question is agreed. Point of order, Kieran McAnulty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2bcee24f39f487daedd5ac7b64f9168\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair, Arena Williams sought a point of order before the vote was called. She informed you of that and you ignored her. That is totally inappropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dc95301ff874b60a9b9f7c39757dc1d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I had already called her\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022add6b5ce78bc4309993d28eefa68604a\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: She called the point of order beforehand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cdab524478a4204bf1281af599ceca2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m sorry; I did not hear it. There was so much racket. I can take the point of order now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00224b9182a0b4f649b8a260e18f18112ea0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b9182a0b4f649b8a260e18f18112ea0\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I thought you might like to know that the motion was incorrectly put by the member; it did not follow the prescribed wording for such a motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00227594c9be845248a99470e540ed242e80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227594c9be845248a99470e540ed242e80\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u0022e888fe379a73404a978fddfc592b789e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e888fe379a73404a978fddfc592b789e\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227019509d9d5243e2897d55012bbc699d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that debate on this question now close. All those in favour\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022937d5b463f6f4b59bfd6ecf2d5b3d636\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b31ad1470f0f4cb185d6130eec51a216\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I am putting a vote\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ca7e9ed10614b2c894a711600eca359\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair, you\u2019re not able to. There were two consecutive closure motions that you have sought.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5cd46b01c5a4ad19d4f26dc4c845d3b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Settle down. We\u2019re just going to get some advice on putting the correct motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022296c84257b064ff0adc743d48d2d3c83\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Can I speak to the point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247f0cd72fd98413a947253c71d2c6440\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Not just now. [Pause in proceedings] So my decision stands, and the question was agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022539e6f489ba94a599cbdb0e1f7db6590\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022539e6f489ba94a599cbdb0e1f7db6590\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thank you, Madam Chair. In light of that, given that there is specific wording outlined, in the Standing Orders, for the way in which a closure motion must be put\u2014and it is contended that it was not put\u2014to then accept, following on from that, another closure motion, although a correct closure motion, without seeking to give it to an Opposition party or anyone else who is seeking the call for another purpose is, we contend, out of order and we invite you to perhaps reconsider your decision. Otherwise, I will move that the Speaker be recalled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u0022f536d53e1a30442fae3e48f0ea84f4f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f536d53e1a30442fae3e48f0ea84f4f8\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the point of order: two points, Madam Chair. The first is that I understand the motion needs to be close to, but doesn\u2019t have to be, exact. The second point is that it\u2019s actually disorderly to interrupt a vote, which is what has happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6cd39c59b10490c97a826d1233f9382\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6cd39c59b10490c97a826d1233f9382\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: And that is the advice that I have received from the clerks: if I understood what the closure motion meant, even though the wording wasn\u2019t exactly correct, it was fine\u2014at the end of the day, it was my call. I did put another one to get the wording correct, but the decision is still the same.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252810277483c4f7eb6ab3c00015019dd\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022286f0aa657cc4bea8cebfe6ef31585d4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Is this a new point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8928cd677e5499793c4dc352ef0a170\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to seek an action that I can only do through a point of order, Madam Chair\u2014so, point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022473d91691c784b0e9c1e16ab3e138f1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022473d91691c784b0e9c1e16ab3e138f1c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014Kieran McAnulty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00227766e7fd51aa450a918eee62c2c0c570\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227766e7fd51aa450a918eee62c2c0c570\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move to recall the Speaker. [Pause in proceedings]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022387cd6138a5446b990a8a0508fb6106c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022387cd6138a5446b990a8a0508fb6106c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Protocol says that I need to put the question that the Speaker be recalled. All those in favour, please say Aye, to the contrary, No. The Noes have it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c55390fc8e634a07a7ab5139f94f85d2\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: The convention is that it is not voted against.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a0e55362e3a4768bce56fb2dc8083c6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s the advice I was given. This is the\u2014[Pause in proceedings] OK, right, we have got some clarification from the clerks and some Standing Orders. I was able to put the question that the Speaker be recalled. However, by convention, members do not oppose a motion to recall the Speaker, but if a party vote is called for, I declare the result on voices. That\u2019s referring to Speaker\u2019s ruling 81/2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002266a27e88f38045d489b23fe9a412d39c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266a27e88f38045d489b23fe9a412d39c\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Now, given you were quite happy to take two closure motions concurrently, which in itself is against convention, surely you would, therefore, given you\u2019ve just read out that Speaker\u2019s ruling, be willing to put the question again, and perhaps the Government members may like to reflect on their decision given that it is against the convention of the House. No one here, I\u2019m certain, can recall another occasion when that, indeed, was done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022 data-id=\u00229dba7af5054a4acd923793d12166589a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229dba7af5054a4acd923793d12166589a\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the point of order, I think the member may have a short memory, because that member himself voted against exactly this motion in the last Parliament and voted down an attempt by the then Opposition to recall the Speaker. But that point aside, Madam Chair, it is clear that you have the sole discretion to rule on closures. You have done so and then been interrupted repeatedly, which is disorderly. The vote should stand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd1b039d1c5c47ff90026d5346372949\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd1b039d1c5c47ff90026d5346372949\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: That is the advice I have been given as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022428dea093b65495fa8997175b4a29bff\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a59f8dc6cd2849c29ad50c543f2c2beb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Is this is a new point of order, Kieran McAnulty?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022726d303b7cc94a1182f93851506f8cfa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022726d303b7cc94a1182f93851506f8cfa\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move to recall the Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed6cc99f34fd4bf9b11a99208617c075\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed6cc99f34fd4bf9b11a99208617c075\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Speaker be recalled. All those in favour, please say Aye, to the contrary, No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ac2837042f749088d141fe36ec88567\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Party vote. Record it on record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022409235745c12436b9f5889ef23ee2c78\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: A party vote is called for. If a party vote is called for, the Speaker\u2019s ruling says that it\u2019s declared on the voices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022951515a3d8014d99ba6ce4702373927b\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Well, how did you declare it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc7c598ce7f54206ba8662f1a110bbf3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I haven\u2019t got to that yet, because I was interrupted by a point of order. The Noes have it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a0e66f593794bc8acca87b53a3b01a4\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Unbelievable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254760a808c314a94af13c516daafbb8e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The reality is, in declaring or accepting any motions on the floor, that it\u2019s the sole discretion of the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231be562c820540bfb46577027883476c\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Unbelievable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c551e8dbba6468a988a2181ff17816f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Maybe it is hard to believe, but that is the rule. We are going to change Chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2ef5596debb4bed87122b13437c5ac7\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262062d9ee2b8405bb2c855ce4fa266e0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Is this a new point of order? Because I don\u2019t think we need to be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u0022299c54f2bbc140f5a1a2cf6ed8302897\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022299c54f2bbc140f5a1a2cf6ed8302897\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E This is a new point of order. It\u2019s highly disorderly for a member to be challenging the chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere: She can determine that herself; she doesn\u2019t need you to help her out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh): And it is a matter for me. Maybe it\u2019s just the hour; I think we all need to settle down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284e4bc6bab9047e8a4405cb6ca65d5a0\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m wide awake now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2e647a2bb9e4080b3f330ccf5769b39\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: So am I. We\u2019re just waiting on a new Chair to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato): Point of order. Thank you, Madam Chair. Just to confirm, we are awaiting the vote to be conducted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh): Yes, we are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN: The closure motion having been accepted, the vote will now take place, presumably?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00229d519b02d05942788ef6da72711c5bdf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d519b02d05942788ef6da72711c5bdf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, but we\u2019re just waiting to change roster. It appears that there\u2019s still a closure motion in front of the committee, because I did take a second one. I\u2019m going to put the closure motion again: that debate on this question now close. A party vote is called for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c7107de2ba244d9b85ba9df88f5c05af\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00223006d0f5dcb44ca890214cacba449330\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223006d0f5dcb44ca890214cacba449330\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: OK, people, we\u2019ve got ourselves into a situation here where we have a huge number of amendments, which haven\u2019t had a chance to be grouped. We have a vote that has been called. We have a couple of options. One of them is we start voting and someone may choose to seek leave, at midnight, to pause voting and we can carry on voting in the morning, or we are just going to have to take it one vote at a time, and it\u2019s going to be a very long night.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u00227bcf84163cda45fdb2a18b6786299034\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bcf84163cda45fdb2a18b6786299034\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Madam Chair, I raised this before\u2014with the previous Chair\u2014that there are so many amendments that are so close together, which\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c35f69542624cdf9d7fe0ff5a5cce46\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, we know that, but we haven\u2019t had a chance\u2014they are still actually coming in, Mr Smith. The amendments were coming in as I was out there, and there has not been a chance to group\u2014I don\u2019t have groupings in front of me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ac17ea8710f42cca6ab10cdd84a5d73\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I do, and they are here in\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022431f866e4a4541b88af5622e2f0d296f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a decision for the Chairperson, not for the committee, and I\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c32e7f137baa4f65b4ea723c8b439e1a\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I realise\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6c0f4a1e7d649a0845e4098b8a5bea2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m not going to set a process that\u2019s going to create a precedent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0f7fca1044b47879dc3f7a1ffea4fd1\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I realise that, Madam Chair, but the point is here that what will happen with this is you\u2019re setting a precedent where members can jam the system up by throwing in a whole lot of amendments just prior to a vote going in so that they can, effectively, filibuster the House. That has consequences that will be quite long-lasting, and remember that the sides of the House change from time to time, and the other members on the other side will experience the same thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00225c97a10fd1c64ed694baa8d5dc4413ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c97a10fd1c64ed694baa8d5dc4413ca\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Look, we get all that\u2014we get all that\u2014but I don\u2019t have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002214784d98c7d847198a464ab99aaa6471\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214784d98c7d847198a464ab99aaa6471\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the point of order, the first point is that I don\u2019t think it\u2019s appropriate for members to threaten others with future actions of that nature. But it is actually quite clear\u2014and it is spelt out in the Standing Orders\u2014that proposed amendments that are similar in nature can be grouped. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f621904c790c4fb0802fafbfbc6a382e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff92e8960c3b46e89f0c82a5ec2e6c90\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: But it seems to me that your explanation to the committee is that the clerks in the Table Office simply haven\u2019t had the time to be able to do that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224681c2d7d22b477bad865cbf3ed87dc1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022190c400df07b4444b5d1a965f5367659\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014before the vote was called, and the fact that the closure motion was accepted when it did and the vote commenced when it did\u2014that has caused the issue. It\u2019s not a situation of precedents being set. The rules are quite clearly outlined in the Standing Orders, and if your suggestion to the committee is that we can either commence voting now and every member remain on precinct for quite some time, or that we get the leave of the committee to conclude the vote at 5 to midnight, then I, therefore, seek the leave of the committee to commence the votes and conclude the vote at 5 minutes to midnight to allow the Chair to be able to report progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a36debdcaf4b49e68c212a3b5ca9213d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a36debdcaf4b49e68c212a3b5ca9213d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226497a351e75b4d05adae8c442a32c61e\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5a2175ea1ff480ba15c5ce88ef2f8ae\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, leave has been sought, though; I want to actually put that. I just want to clarify that leave would be sought to suspend the vote at midnight, but it wouldn\u2019t be reporting progress\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221870f3595ee4bde8ed6093267831a8c\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290b99339d06449c581add9e6f32d14c9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Leave is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f96cdeb9f2d4ddfb67504419029696a\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Just for that clarification\u2014simply trying to put into motion what you\u2019ve suggested is one of the options of the committee, and if that\u2019s how it\u2019s worded, then I so word it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8b23d7d89b64ef4b4b88193c7ad156f\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223068e838bc024866b56483359f44ee3f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order\u2014it was Joseph Mooney first. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u002222430d2c233143e9b16bac8d5e180c04\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222430d2c233143e9b16bac8d5e180c04\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, for that clarity. Under Parliamentary Practice in New Zealand section 38.12.3\u2014and I\u2019ll just read it out, because it was mentioned before\u2014\u201CWhere multiple similar amendments are proposed to a single provision, the Chairperson may select a handful of indicative amendments on which to put a question in order to test the will of the committee.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00227dc1ad2ac79c40d1976d97b6842c4604\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227dc1ad2ac79c40d1976d97b6842c4604\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I get that, Mr Mooney, but I haven\u2019t actually had the ability to have those in front of me to do that process, and I\u2019m not going to accept that someone else has done that process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fbd7199af0c48a6802b81352527095c\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: This is a different point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e937a3da930c496285cbefa49e86b0f1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: A different point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u00226e884365a2034d4788b91492096e1667\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e884365a2034d4788b91492096e1667\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, the leave was sought to suspend the House at 5 to 12, to be precise\u2014so just to ensure that the member\u2019s leave is actually correct in what he said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002222748a9db8f241f9a79c7c460639848c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222748a9db8f241f9a79c7c460639848c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, so I am going to put\u2014so we\u2019re very clear, I would like the Hon Kieran McAnulty to repeat the leave that he has sought so that everybody is very clear on what he was asking for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce7892c07b2546b1a2fa20c41a71276a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce7892c07b2546b1a2fa20c41a71276a\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E OK. I thought we\u2019d sorted that, actually, but anyway\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a793c19d681642f9bfd21c8b6eb6afec\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well, I think we have, too\u2014well, I think we have. I\u2019m clear on what you\u2019ve said, but I just want to make sure that the committee is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae0aad898ef044a3b941af7ab204d0ab\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: All right. On the basis of this discussion and the advice and guidance that you\u2019ve given, I seek leave for the committee to suspend the vote at midnight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00221e3cb43bc97d4feb9e2d0962da447564\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e3cb43bc97d4feb9e2d0962da447564\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e91e1881b6dd4f5ebac37d3fe72c68d5\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00223ca670849a794a67ac89745cc4c68b3d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ca670849a794a67ac89745cc4c68b3d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to delete clause 19 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022267eef2f15274a47bfb096b771e8e1fc\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 74\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00221be62df1d04d492c911b899f3b24f36d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221be62df1d04d492c911b899f3b24f36d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 20 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229711047495d941f1968e9e51acc433fd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb84d20135ff436998ff6eda691ded4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb84d20135ff436998ff6eda691ded4d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 20, new section 73(4)(a), to replace all the words after \u201Crent if\u201D with \u201Cthe agency considers it to be in the interests of fairness to the tenant\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022440a65d3016f4b09bcad788a883ede3c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002243a74136f5d8436eaf91586c55c6ca38\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243a74136f5d8436eaf91586c55c6ca38\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 21 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223b8ac7cc21b5476d93995b9953bb1e53\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002268f85a0e7c8246afae97eee376102313\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268f85a0e7c8246afae97eee376102313\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 22 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cd6d83dcb97c4390af64133558ea32ab\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00222884b4dd0979459b8f820808fa765c22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222884b4dd0979459b8f820808fa765c22\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 23 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e00c2c45bc1c4cd2be9fed0f3b5a222a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00220a081651f86840039dc3d061f306827a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a081651f86840039dc3d061f306827a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Willie Jackson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 23(1) to, after the words \u201Chousehold income\u201D, insert \u201Cand replace it with \u2018household manaakitanga\u2019\u00A0\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002273257271bf3440df8d1ab9931d907181\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022dcafccd740124cfbaf2c8a6f26fd627c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dcafccd740124cfbaf2c8a6f26fd627c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Willie Jackson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 23(1) to, after the words \u201Chousehold income\u201D, insert \u201Cand replace it with \u2018household/k\u0101inga income\u2019\u00A0\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002251f192c2f6534407a0195bc3a36ccf45\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00225ebf9ad0f39441819a7d190f2a2e8381\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ebf9ad0f39441819a7d190f2a2e8381\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Willie Jackson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 23(1) to, after the words \u201Chousehold income\u201D, insert \u201Cand replace it with \u2018household/wh\u0101nau income\u2019\u00A0\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b395c18cf01d4346b604a157b35bb2c4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7d82ab4d8a54aa0b48f984fd558887e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7d82ab4d8a54aa0b48f984fd558887e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Willie Jackson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 23(1) to, after the words \u201Chousehold income\u201D, insert \u201Cand replace it with \u2018household kete moni\u2019\u00A0\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002291e4af542e47422188344ed3b95cf863\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2cfd55a080a4ad185f4e2ae14b78f58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2cfd55a080a4ad185f4e2ae14b78f58\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Willie Jackson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 23(1) to, after the words \u201Chousehold income\u201D, insert \u201Cand replace it with \u2018household p\u016Btea\u2019\u00A0\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022126cf037044a498aa4e0b011976bf9e9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1fee25b00004542808e1aae445e5d45\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1fee25b00004542808e1aae445e5d45\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Willie Jackson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 23(1) to, after the words \u201Chousehold income\u201D, insert \u201Cand replace it with \u2018household residential p\u016Btea\u2019\u00A0\u201D is out of order as being the same in substance as a previous amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 23(1) to, after the words \u201Chousehold income\u201D, insert \u201Cand replace it with \u2018household revenue\u2019\u00A0\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022994f4916ca224d81b7cd810e0cfd494c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022 data-id=\u00226a66c366d76648c49daed911b5ff18db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a66c366d76648c49daed911b5ff18db\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thank you, Madam Chair. I think that last one is an example here of the challenge we\u2019re running into, and I refer to specifically\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd331195b60046bf92a5df919338536d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2014[Interruption] No, Mr van de Molen, we have run ourselves into a space where I made it very clear, as the Chair, that we didn\u2019t have time to have them grouped and analysed. The committee has made a decision to go forward on the vote, and on that basis, we\u2019re going to carry on with the vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207a0dfb373a440949d3c37a0e614dc72\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not talking about grouping, Madam Chair. If I can complete my point of order, you\u2019ll understand where I\u2019m referring to. It\u2019s specifically Speaker\u2019s ruling 128/5, which states\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dff868690e7f43019cdd52620d522901\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Naughty, naughty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a6956b8e6ca49479a88bf272a65ffaf\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014this is a point of order, which is to be heard in silence\u2014\u201CProposing amendments that simply seek to change the order of the words in a particular clause, or to substitute words with the same or very similar meaning\u2014\u201D. That last one was a prime example where the word \u201Cincome\u201D was proposed to be changed to \u201Crevenue\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002283108cbb54c34003956ae39c98649506\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283108cbb54c34003956ae39c98649506\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, look\u2014[Interruption] No, Mr van de Molen will resume\u2014[Interruption] Resume your seat, Mr van de Molen. We made it very clear before the vote, and the committee made its decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 23(1) to, after the words \u201Chousehold income\u201D, insert \u201Cand replace it with \u2018residence income\u2019\u00A0\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022505e5bd9ba0c481ab002f72234761eae\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7d5aecf31144075ae9857a4f89a3a1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7d5aecf31144075ae9857a4f89a3a1f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 23(1) to, after the words \u201Chousehold income\u201D, insert \u201Cand replace it with \u2018residence revenue\u2019\u00A0\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220e888cd5ba6048d3a56483eacece5cda\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00224c7edd4de42649599faada4bd196e082\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c7edd4de42649599faada4bd196e082\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 23(1) to, after the words \u201Chousehold income\u201D, insert \u201Cand replace it with \u2018property income\u2019\u00A0\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220d1a22b98fba4f63a265a44e27470843\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8cfa242caa44d6c8172077dbab598bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8cfa242caa44d6c8172077dbab598bb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 23(1) to, after the words \u201Chousehold income\u201D, insert \u201Cand replace it with \u2018household moolah\u2019\u00A0\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 23(1) to, after the words \u201Chousehold income\u201D, insert \u201Cand replace it with \u2018wh\u0101nau earnings\u2019\u00A0\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002283e3e091ba3649aeba764fe9cdf5cde7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022490a288c76404406abd66fc1e9b3d036\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022490a288c76404406abd66fc1e9b3d036\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to Part 2 to replace references to \u201C62%\u201D and \u201C38%\u201D with \u201C50%\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002296bdb12efc1b413287e0c26948894076\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00228237da6f68374a9ca7bbb4486a2cf6b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228237da6f68374a9ca7bbb4486a2cf6b1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Kahurangi Carter\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 23(4) and (6) to replace references to \u201C62%\u201D with \u201C30%\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f857c6453358435d9cab133956454607\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2aa65beaf654c7a8c813ddea641c94e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2aa65beaf654c7a8c813ddea641c94e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to 23(4) and (6) to replace references to \u201C62%\u201D with \u201C28%\u201D, I am ruling out\u2014[Interruption] There\u2019s a lot of talking going on. No one will know what they\u2019re voting for in a minute. I\u2019m ruling that one out because it\u2019s inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EI am also ruling out Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to 23(4) and (6) to replace references to \u201C62%\u201D with \u201C25%\u201D as also inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to 23(4) and (6) inserting \u201Cthat exceed $600 per week\u201D is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 24 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f455b6701d8f49e9b8135162b5134909\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002250bf1f5ac90f4f58803c7d29290d5308\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250bf1f5ac90f4f58803c7d29290d5308\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bd1c69fef28540f1b4d0e97b6ed16ad9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00227697f56a865c424c98bc1405e5985e94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227697f56a865c424c98bc1405e5985e94\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 25, new section 118A, to replace \u201Cdiscrepancy\u201D and \u201Cdiscrepancies\u201D with \u201Cinconsistency\u201D and \u201Cinconsistencies\u201D in each place be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223d4abf482f024a55b5a6384d18d16ecf\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd285279c2a8498c9c1bd20fce6cceb3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd285279c2a8498c9c1bd20fce6cceb3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Helen White\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C10 working days\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220f65f77869da45b2b4ba6a09f10ed699\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2dc95e3e376431a8a1ab5d667d03cbf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2dc95e3e376431a8a1ab5d667d03cbf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, I\u2019m ruling out as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee, because it\u2019s also looking at changing \u201Cworking days\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EI\u2019m ruling out Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, which is also looking at replacing \u201Cworking days\u201D, as inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EI\u2019m also ruling out Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, which is looking at replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C30 working days\u201D, as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EI am ruling out Kahurangi Carter\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, looking to replace \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C15 working days\u201D, as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that Helen White\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 25, new section 118A(3), replacing \u201C10 working days\u201D with \u201C15 working days\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b5c5cf58f6b541178461be57a9bc79f0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00220e42b777ae9343a9bfbe04b6cb4b5830\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e42b777ae9343a9bfbe04b6cb4b5830\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(3), is out of order as being the same in substance as a previous amendment\u2014Helen White\u2019s amendment to clause 25.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EI am ruling out Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, which is wanting to replace \u201C10 working days\u201D with \u201C20 working days\u201D, as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EI am ruling on Kahurangi Carter\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25 replacing \u201C10 working days\u201D with \u201C30 working days\u201D as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EI am ruling out Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25 replacing \u201C10 working days\u201D with \u201C60 working days\u201D as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(3), replacing \u201Cthe agency must\u201D with \u201Cthe agency may use its discretion whether or not to\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002239d85992ccc3456ea3648365fc61c189\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022db6ca6b23c2540468b5479c3fb698421\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db6ca6b23c2540468b5479c3fb698421\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 25, new section 118A(3)(a) and (b), replacing \u201Cmust\u201D with \u201Cmay\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022edcc7d154f00428ba74bec063dacdd6d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7e8c5aed1ac47fc87b57ce777c8020e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7e8c5aed1ac47fc87b57ce777c8020e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m just going to pause for a second. [Pause in proceedings] The question is that the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to delete clause 26 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002248c8667c766d47748a71eb3d1d1a0799\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002213e307429eee44e8b6c79dcef19716c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213e307429eee44e8b6c79dcef19716c4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to delete clause 27 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022dc8b3d2f023e4a97ac367a45c1adcd6b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022273936cf70834e97a4e91d57ab4b47ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022273936cf70834e97a4e91d57ab4b47ee\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to delete clause 28 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b63eb82e38514edab2bb5bccda965ccd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00227cc2df9be720441c8807f0ef6872a161\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227cc2df9be720441c8807f0ef6872a161\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 23(1) to, after the words \u201Chousehold income\u201D, insert \u201Cand replace it with \u2018family income\u2019\u00A0\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022dee43f2337bd40109b8379c292ffca14\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002253be7a62bb3a454796f87621aa456077\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253be7a62bb3a454796f87621aa456077\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 23(1) to, after the words \u201Chousehold income\u201D, insert \u201Cand replace it with \u2018wh\u0101nau income\u2019\u00A0\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c089eec3d9624c8782a0a99af9f21595\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022740678a17542447a87171929139d6551\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022740678a17542447a87171929139d6551\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The amendment in the name of the Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2014the tabled amendment to clause 23(1)\u2014is inconsistent with a previous decision that has already been taken, so is out of scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe next amendment\u2014\u201CThe question is, That the Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 23(1)\u201D\u2014is also inconsistent with a previous decision, so is also ruled out of scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question \u201CThat the Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 23(1) to, after the words \u2018household income\u2019, insert \u2018and replace it with \u201Chousehold stipend\u201D\u00A0\u2019\u00A0\u201D is also inconsistent with a previous decision and is out of scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question \u201CThat the Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 23(1) to, after the words \u2018household income\u2019, insert \u2018and replace it with \u201Chousehold earnings\u201D \u2019\u00A0\u201D is also inconsistent with a previous decision and is ruled out of scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C10 working days\u201D is out of order as being the same in substance as a previous amendment by Helen White.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C12 working days\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002252ce9297814a49f08d321cd6d13149c8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022546becd7ce254c4baf02c88ef6c89bfe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022546becd7ce254c4baf02c88ef6c89bfe\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question \u201CThat Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u20181 working day\u2019 with \u20183 working days\u2019\u2026\u201D is inconsistent with a previous decision and ruled out of scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question \u201CThat Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u20181 working day\u2019 with \u20185 calendar days\u2019 be agreed to.\u201D is inconsistent with a previous decision and is ruled out of scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question \u201CThat Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u20181 working day\u2019 with \u20181 month\u2019\u2026\u201D is also inconsistent with a previous decision and is ruled out of scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question \u201CThat Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u20181 working day\u2019 with \u20182 months\u2019\u2026\u201D is also inconsistent with a previous decision and is ruled out of scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question \u201CThat Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u20181 working day\u2019 with \u20189 weeks\u2019\u2026\u201D is also inconsistent with a previous decision and is ruled out of scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201Ca sensible time period\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226bb7e480213e4dda9f7bb995127b465f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00221034cdda02154f23b289cc2f321dbabc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221034cdda02154f23b289cc2f321dbabc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question \u201CThat Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u20181 working day\u2019 with \u2018a time to be agreed with the boarder\u2019\u2026\u201D is inconsistent with a previous decision and is ruled out of scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201Ca time to be determined by Order in Council on or before 1 January 2026\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ba5f73ca596b42cf8a54c8fe6307a271\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00221309e52dbae34b378b216deee2c20875\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221309e52dbae34b378b216deee2c20875\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question \u201CThat Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u20181 working day\u2019 with \u201860 hours\u2019\u2026\u201D is inconsistent with a previous decision and is ruled out of scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question \u201CThat Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u20181 working day\u2019 with \u201848 hours\u2019\u2026\u201D is inconsistent with a previous decision and is ruled out of scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question \u201CThat Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u20181 working day\u2019 with \u20186 calendar days\u2019\u2026\u201D is inconsistent with a previous decision and is ruled out of scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question\u2014for those of you who have fallen asleep\u2014\u201CThat Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u20181 working day\u2019 with \u20181 working week\u2019\u2026\u201D is inconsistent with a previous decision and is ruled out of scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C6 days or 12 days at the election of the agency\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227f0bebc7ea4d4df1a79c587467f6b788\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022901cb0f262f0494f99a2d69bcb0591f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022901cb0f262f0494f99a2d69bcb0591f3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question \u201CThat Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u20181 working day\u2019 with \u201817 days\u2019\u2026\u201D is inconsistent with a previous decision and is ruled out of scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question \u201CThat Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u20181 working day\u2019 with \u20183,264 minutes\u2019\u2026\u201D is inconsistent with a previous decision and is ruled out of scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question \u201CThat Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u20181 working day\u2019 with \u20186,478 minutes\u2019\u2026\u201D is ruled as inconsistent with a previous decision and is ruled out of scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question \u201CThat Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u20181 working day\u2019 with \u20183 Mondays in a row\u2019\u2026\u201D is ruled inconsistent with a previous decision and is ruled out of scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question \u201CThat Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u20181 working day\u2019 with \u201814 calendar days\u2019\u2026\u201D is ruled inconsistent with a previous decision and is ruled out of scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe Hon Willie Jackson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 20, section 73(4), \u201Cafter the word \u2018rent\u2019, inserting \u2018that appropriate consideration is given to the principles of Te Tiriti o Waitangi\u2019\u00A0\u201D is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C1 day of work\u201D is out of order as not being in the proper form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C1 day outside the weekend\u201D is out of order as not being in the proper form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C2 days of employment\u201D is out of order as not being in the proper form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C2 days of paid activity\u201D is out of order as not being in the proper form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C1 day of paid activity\u201D is out of order as not being in the proper form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe Hon Jan Tinetti\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C20 days of paid activity\u201D is out of order as not being in the proper form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe Hon Jan Tinetti\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C30 working days\u201D is out of order as being the same in substance as another amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe Hon Jan Tinetti\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C30 days of paid activity\u201D is out of order as not being in the proper form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe Hon Jan Tinetti\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C30 days of paid activity\u201D is out of order as not being in the proper form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question is that Reuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C145 calendar days\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f7bf5200885645d8b29f0c82d854e5c3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022298de0dd43fd423799cd1bf3c25a32ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022298de0dd43fd423799cd1bf3c25a32ab\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Reuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C3 Mondays in a row or consecutively\u201D is out of order as not being in the proper form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question \u201CThat Reuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u20181 working day\u2019 with \u20182 working days\u2019\u2026\u201D is ruled as inconsistent with a previous a decision and is out of scope. There will be a brief pause while we wait for more amendments. [Pause in proceedings]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00225869b33990164773860915fef6edf3ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225869b33990164773860915fef6edf3ca\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Reuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C3,264 hours\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227cd091fe206d474c9890e780163aa37f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a44197b59764033acfd26268322eb28\u0022\u003ERachel Boyack\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022f987fdce1d334128a2e9b04482e262a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f987fdce1d334128a2e9b04482e262a8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Did I hear a point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298aeeeef3aa145aab457221151caa237\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Rachel\u2019s being unruly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00228e80738decd348b3986400a4227c299a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e80738decd348b3986400a4227c299a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Look, the evening is, at the moment, unique. It\u2019s not going to be assisted by any calls from the floor. Thank you, members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C21 days\u201D is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Reuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C6 days or 12 days at the election of the agency or its delegated authority\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002213f4a134a653497aaaee41ba400370a8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00226272ed170c7448c18ad45f58b25a9836\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226272ed170c7448c18ad45f58b25a9836\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Reuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C2 working weeks\u201D is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C7 calendar days\u201D is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C48.5 hours\u201D is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C48 hours\u201D is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201Ca time to be determined by Order in Council no later than 1 January 2026\u201D is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u2019s six tabled amendments to Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendments amending clause 23, new section 107, are ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C8 working days\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022627fad990ff14c51b16f47a355312661\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb8f36ff5d2740d8a542839299555369\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb8f36ff5d2740d8a542839299555369\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C11 working days\u201D is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C1 working work\u201D is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C2 working days\u201D is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C7 working days\u201D is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C15 working days\u201D is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C20 working days\u201D is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C10 working days\u201D is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C12 working days\u201D is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C14 working days\u201D is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Reuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C1 week\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222de0f84fa8664f178e34943fc956f86d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00220b5e506390f841a2b563cd17edbd194c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b5e506390f841a2b563cd17edbd194c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Reuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), replacing \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C3 months\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022634f58e025aa4664806189d96c45c2d0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022223524249c41438c85e7dbd72bf97571\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022223524249c41438c85e7dbd72bf97571\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Reuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), to replace \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C1 week\u201D is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), to replace \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C4 calendar days\u201D is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), to replace \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C13 working days\u201D is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), to replace \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C11 working days\u201D is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), to replace \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201C11 working days\u201D is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), to replace \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201Ca reasonable period of time\u201D is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(c), to replace \u201C1 working day\u201D with \u201Ca time to be agreed with the boarders and their aunt or uncle\u201D is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Ingrid Leary\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(3), to replace \u201C10 working days\u201D with \u201Ca reasonable time given all the circumstances of A and B\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022537b3ce809bb4a0ca5888476db096b69\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022173072f1f0514bbdbf740238011c807d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022173072f1f0514bbdbf740238011c807d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1), to delete subparagraph (i) of paragraph (a) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a3f71810d9824139bdfcbefe7d404610\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002245dfc38c73934ca394ae20f678488841\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245dfc38c73934ca394ae20f678488841\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1), to deleted subparagraph (ii) of paragraph (a) is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1), to delete subparagraph (i) of paragraph (b) is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1), to delete subparagraph (ii) of paragraph (b) is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1), to delete subparagraph (i) of paragraph (c) is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1), to delete subparagraph (ii) of paragraph (c) is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1), in subparagraph (i) of paragraph (c), to replace \u201Cagency\u201D with \u201CCrown\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225819315874d14418bcde99a64745259f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022a44c45bc44244932a03add600e9ff8d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a44c45bc44244932a03add600e9ff8d2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(2), to replace \u201Creasonable\u201D with \u201Cis considered fairly in the circumstances and\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002208f0e765b34a41d39593e76cea225ced\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002295f44ca6585e45a99e31d79d51700d36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295f44ca6585e45a99e31d79d51700d36\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(3), to replace \u201Cfirst working day\u201D with \u201Cnext practical opportunity\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c2d5f17a43404307857e93930eb07ff1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee5f0634c5834957b008e5e0703eaafa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee5f0634c5834957b008e5e0703eaafa\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, subsection (3) of new section 118A, to replace \u201Cregistered community housing provider\u201D with \u201Chousing agency whether public or community\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ea215b4e8f85457abc01213f0a7dc037\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002283ba1fb0d7354551bd76d3a0835d40ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283ba1fb0d7354551bd76d3a0835d40ea\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A paragraph (b) of subsection (3), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002266115858ef9c4c23ae294bd69ed96cb5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00221387c467e31a4ae9accbc12cac600dd3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221387c467e31a4ae9accbc12cac600dd3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, subsection (4) of new section 118A, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002215018eadd3a64c6e9778c558c825328d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00227a9cde51cc53497ca20ed922dd91119f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a9cde51cc53497ca20ed922dd91119f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Glen Bennett\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 25, new section 118A(1)(a), inserting new subparagraph (iii) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a43ccaa71a7447feacbb3525d876156d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226da5dde25ac349e9b5a286f615daa03f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 74\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002261c96b872f7b4b8da3409934a0b7c666\u0022\u003ESchedule 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0c1c72ab2654d23a2ac5d9895ef7821\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0c1c72ab2654d23a2ac5d9895ef7821\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: We come now to Schedule 1. The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 1 replacing references to \u201CMarch 2026\u201D with \u201CMarch 2027\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b3b01f639d304d4f8361846b4035c6f3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022758f91813756404c8e2033c3fc3c5824\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022758f91813756404c8e2033c3fc3c5824\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendments to Schedule 1, new clauses 104 and 105, replacing \u201C2 March 2026\u201D with \u201C1 January 2027\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bb0f3609968d4c12a65eaa4503e85678\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc59780dd5dc4f61be17ad12eff6f78b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc59780dd5dc4f61be17ad12eff6f78b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Kahurangi Carter\u2019s tabled amendments to Schedule 1, new clauses 104 and 105, replacing \u201C2 March 2026\u201D with \u201C1 January 2027\u201D are ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendments to Schedule 1, new clauses 104 and 105, replacing \u201C2 March 2026\u201D with \u201C1 January 2028\u201D are ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002219ed339b8df14516900d45ab72f83b6f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022980affb2bff34a2094f1906df5f6c5e1\u0022\u003ESchedule 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022484f8478e8e54a478ff9a1e00e55890e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022484f8478e8e54a478ff9a1e00e55890e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 2 replacing references to \u201CMarch 2026\u201D with \u201CMarch 2027\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022317a3f4bef0647ebb157eae10f4b4392\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022b07d5bd9e05b49a1ad6f507bc7391b4e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b07d5bd9e05b49a1ad6f507bc7391b4e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendments to Schedule 2, new clauses 25 to 27, replacing \u201C2 March 2026\u201D with \u201C1 February 2027\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cbbf66337e0045a68edbcca4afeea013\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002229c0bc856a394d37affc331803283b3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229c0bc856a394d37affc331803283b3a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Kahurangi Carter\u2019s tabled amendments to Schedule 2, new clauses 25 to 27, replacing \u201C2 March 2026\u201D with \u201C1 August 2027\u201D are ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendments to Schedule 2, new clauses 25 to 27, replacing \u201C2 March 2026\u201D with \u201C1 February 2028\u201D are ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f2a0f31a91054e0394189a7765edfd31\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228283fd5f79774614a93528e9942eb4b2\u0022\u003ESchedule 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022e812be65cc014f17a274072127a3df08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e812be65cc014f17a274072127a3df08\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: We now come to Schedule 3. The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 3 replacing references to \u201CMarch 2026\u201D with \u201CMarch 2027\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002268a1f5d102ea439593278ae66c61697a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022991a8cfcd0f04f979abfbe2db301d8e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022991a8cfcd0f04f979abfbe2db301d8e0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendments to Schedule 3, new clauses 6 to 8, replacing \u201C2 March 2026\u201D with \u201C1 March 2027\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022227095dc381747179624761346535eb3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff57e4af56ff486997de19bb237d52b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff57e4af56ff486997de19bb237d52b1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Kahurangi Carter\u2019s tabled amendments to Schedule 3, new clauses 6 to 8, replacing \u201C2 March 2026\u201D with \u201C1 September 2027\u201D are ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendments to Schedule 3, new clauses 6 to 8, replacing \u201C2\u00A0March 2026\u201D with \u201C1 March 2028\u201D are ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226fe6d7ca6e0743aeaeecf20d4b5fd85c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002205ac4b26149247a9b8a195fb5539602a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205ac4b26149247a9b8a195fb5539602a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, before I leave the Chair, I\u2019d just like to thank the committee for its forbearance tonight, but especially to the Clerk\u2019s team. [Applause] It\u2019s been an absolute sterling effort behind the scenes and is very much appreciated, and I think that applause will be appreciated. The time has come for me to leave the Chair. The committee will resume at 9 a.m. tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 1.01 a.m. to 9 a.m. (Saturday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250522265b1925a0ed43a0924a49e75da8df39001478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a816417d30bb4450be67d69a273185a2\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 22 MAY 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022416f709b9e13442eab037933efaf0817\u0022\u003E(continued on Saturday, 24 May 2025)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fb53c31acf8245788c62d68d768cb567\u0022\u003ESocial Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002243d532983c994632aff367baf5c43c86\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002244aad5d8f7d34cac86bbe70b3945553b\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8a57114bdab4ffbb5d48958bd288f2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8a57114bdab4ffbb5d48958bd288f2b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, when we were debating the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill, we completed the debate on Part 2. We come now to our final debate. This is the debate on clauses 1 and 2, \u201CTitle\u201D and \u201CCommencement\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u00227ff5ed5f673b487eafc3f9958df6000f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ff5ed5f673b487eafc3f9958df6000f\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I want to take some time to ask you about the commencement date, because this is actually a really important issue, and to ask you whether you are prepared to look at a much later commencement date for this piece of legislation. What we\u2019ve heard about this bill\u2014as we\u2019ve discovered what it will do in urgency\u2014is it will take money from people that have previously, by policy decision in law, been allowed to take in boarders. That actually sustained a lot of families in New Zealand. These are our poorest families by the nature of the fact that the Government recognises what is going on and gives them a subsidy. It gives them a subsidy for accommodation, even though they might be working, because they\u2019re earning so little that they cannot make ends meet. It gives them a subsidy if they\u2019re not working because rents are so high in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThese are the reasons why we support these people. What happened in the 1990s was there was a plunge in the benefits and the support that we gave people, at the same time as wages in this country fell in real terms and house prices skyrocketed. That\u2019s the economy we now live in and it\u2019s a result of those times. But even in the 1990s, they saw the benefit. This legislature saw the benefit of at least letting people try by bringing in boarders into their accommodation situation. They saw that as a win because it had the benefit of allowing people to make ends meet a little bit by having boarders. So it was a way of them taking control of their situation, like I would if I was suddenly out of here and I had to pay the mortgage and I hadn\u2019t re-established myself as a lawyer, I would take boarders in\u2014that\u2019s what I\u2019d do, because I could.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210d0426d843c44dd9f6e5e6430d0bd4e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Ms White, this is not a general debate speech; this is a very tight part of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022514496332cb046abae61b5150e4256a1\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: It does absolutely relate to the timing of it because I\u2019m talking about a time in history where there\u2019s a cost of living crisis and, actually, these are the very people we need to extend out. So I\u2019m asking the Minister for Social Development and Employment: would she consider extending this out to a time, maybe two years out, when the Government promises at the present time that it\u2019s going to restore the balance here? It\u2019s going to restore the situation in terms of cost of living, because so far what we\u2019ve seen is we\u2019ve seen cost of living crises for the very people who we are taking $100 on average a week off. Will the Minister consider a movement and an absolute change in the words so that we have this 2 March much later? I suggest we do it two years from then, and that\u2019ll give things time to settle down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s what I\u2019d like to ask the Minister: is she prepared to recognise the cost of living crisis for this group and allow that time to be much later\u2014two years later? Thank you, Minister. I\u2019d really like an answer to that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002289c3d28d2e9b4d78b20e414029479e60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289c3d28d2e9b4d78b20e414029479e60\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I did explain, yesterday, that this was a measure that was in Budget 2024, so it\u2019s been signalled for quite some time. It does not prevent anyone at all from having boarders; all it means is that if you do have a boarder, the income from that boarder is taken into account in terms of your accommodation supplement assistance, which is funded by other taxpayers. So, no, we will not be changing the commencement date. There are technical requirements and IT changes so that this piece of legislation comes into effect on 2 March 2026, and it was first raised in Budget 2024, which is a whole 12 months ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u002226441293b73c4bae9eadbc093fc57ac9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226441293b73c4bae9eadbc093fc57ac9\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. The Minister for Social Development and Employment just talked about clause 2, the commencement on 2 March 2026. She just mentioned the IT changes that she thinks will be required in order to make this possible. I did want to ask the Minister\u2014because this, again, would have been the kind of stuff we could have been evaluating at the select committee stage. I notice this is coming in just before the changes to benefit indexations that happen in April, and it did seem like an arbitrary date to create. There\u2019s not much analysis given to us as to why that specific change was given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI wanted to ask about the fiscal implications of the number of staff that will be working on these IT changes and the costs to, for example, change anything on different platforms\u2014for instance, whether it\u2019s MyMSD, whether it\u2019s to develop new training guidelines. These members might be thinking it\u2019s funny, but I do think there are genuine fiscal implications to the choice of 2 March 2026. If the members think this is too broad, they are just out of their depth, because the reality is that the Ministry of Social Development is really busy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI did want to ask: what are the measures the Government is taking between now and 2 March 2026 to ensure that those IT changes are adequately resourced? And how many staff\u2014how many fulltime-equivalents (FTEs) will be working on those changes? I think the people deserve some transparency around this, particularly the thousands of families who will be left without the accommodation supplement after these changes. So I want to ask: how many FTEs, what\u2019s the fiscal implication around the IT changes, and whether she will need to be developing any new platforms as a result of this, and particularly in relationship to the community housing providers that will now be left with discretionary options around how they change trends in relationship to this? I am seeking genuine engagement around the date, and so I hope the Minister gets this done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022d18f896e0dfc4b739ba8d53817078d10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d18f896e0dfc4b739ba8d53817078d10\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019d like to talk about the title of this bill and I\u2019d like to suggest that we change the title to something more reflective of what this is. I would like to change this title to the \u201CContribution of Those on Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent to the Tax Cuts for Landlords\u201D. I think that\u2019s a pretty good title for this bill, because what has happened here is that the Government has decided to take $150 million off the very people who are hurting the most, because they need to make ends meet. This is a Budget measure. That is what it\u2019s been assessed as\u2014saving the Government\u2014and it was done as a measure to make money which needed to go back into the kitty because it had been spent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EOne of those items that it had been spent on was tax cuts for landlords. We had a measure in place where landlords would actually have to pay for\u2014they wouldn\u2019t get the same interest deduction. It was something that was controversial. It was something that National went in and said it was going to give back to landlords, and it did that at enormous cost\u2014enormous cost; I think it was $2.9 billion. This is a drop in the bucket that is being taken out of the pockets of our poorest people, recognised to be our poorest people because they are on the accommodation supplement, because they are in income-related rents. That\u2019s who is going to pay for this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo I think that is a lot more accurate title. If the Minister for Social Development and Employment does not agree that that is the most accurate title, then I would like to know why she doesn\u2019t, given that it\u2019s a measure that is there to make money. There were other ways that the legislation could go, because it says so in the documents that we have, but they didn\u2019t make as much money for the Government. There were other ways that this could have been done, but it\u2019s been done with an automated decision-making system bringing everybody into the office\u2014which we\u2019ll talk about in the next bill\u2014specifically because the cash grab has to happen by the date in this legislation. That\u2019s when it kicks in. So it\u2019s been built in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThe reason that there is a need for a cash grab is because of the Government\u2019s books and because of the money and the choices it\u2019s made, and it made that choice to give money to the very people who have got the rental properties in this country that are too expensive for people to live in, so we have to give them the accommodation supplement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ENow, interestingly, the accommodation supplement is criticised as hiking up those rents because it actually goes into the pockets of the landlords. Again, surprise, surprise. The one subsidy we haven\u2019t talked about\u2014we\u2019ve talked about double-dipping, but we haven\u2019t talked about the huge subsidy that we give landlords by a mechanism that could have been addressed; there could have been some brave work done, but no brave work was done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI want to talk about the title reflecting the reality, because New Zealanders in this country need to understand that the reality of this is they are paying for the decisions made by this Government. So I\u2019d ask: could you please address that issue? Why are we not reflecting it in our title? Because this title that we\u2019ve got here, which says the Act is the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Act 2025, it really doesn\u2019t tell people anything, does it? It sounds innocuous. It sounds like a small technical change. And, at the same time, we\u2019re helping people up. Well, we\u2019re not helping people up, are we? Let\u2019s call it what it is, because our job as legislators is to be actually really clear about what we\u2019re doing and reflect what we\u2019re doing. Please, can I know why we\u2019re calling it something which nobody would look twice at, wouldn\u2019t know anything, wouldn\u2019t know what it really did. Why are we doing that when we could be honest? Because if the National Party believes in this stuff, they better say it. Why don\u2019t we tell them the way it is? Thank you. I\u2019d love an answer to that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00228b9842cfeb544e64898e75b6046a3754\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b9842cfeb544e64898e75b6046a3754\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I take another call, I\u2019m hearing some reasonably disrespectful commentary coming from my right. So I just wonder whether members might reflect on whether that\u2019s really adding not only to the order of the House but to the dignity of the House. I\u2019ll just ask them to reflect on that, without pointing out anyone in particular.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002247f6af30d7bd46c4ac367b827f295598\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247f6af30d7bd46c4ac367b827f295598\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I intend to move an amendment to the title of this bill. I think it\u2019s incredibly important in any time when the House is considering a bill at committee stage, but particularly under urgency when the public of New Zealand in the first instance has not had an opportunity to have their say at the select committee stage, but by virtue of this being urgency after a Budget and this being on Saturday morning, the likelihood of this bill getting media coverage is far less than it would do if it were going through a full parliamentary process. On that point, it is especially important that the title reflects the contents of the bill accurately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, my concern about the title of this bill, the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill, any reasonable person that hasn\u2019t been following this debate or isn\u2019t aware of the contents of the bill could make a reasonable assumption that this bill increases the accommodation supplement and income-related rent. Why wouldn\u2019t they? It\u2019s called \u201Csocial assistance\u201D. If you were looking at this title, you would assume that this actually increases the assistance provided by the State, but we know that it doesn\u2019t. My amendment would be to change the title of this bill to the \u201CSocial Assistance (Reducing Accommodation Supplement in Certain Circumstances) Amendment Bill\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, there are rules around proposals for the change of a title in the bill. We all know that\u2014not all of us follow it, but we all know it\u2014and a proposal for a change in the title cannot be a commentary on the content of the bill. My proposal is not that; it is a very clear description of what is in the bill. There is no suggestion in that as to whether that is a wrong thing or a right thing. It\u2019s not providing commentary on the proposals; it is simply describing the proposals: \u201C(Reducing Accommodation Supplement in Certain Circumstances) Amendment Bill\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, I would wonder why the Government wouldn\u2019t support this, because it is an accurate and objective reflection of what this bill proposes to do. Under certain circumstances, this bill will reduce the accommodation supplement paid to some people. That is a fact. It\u2019s indisputable. It is quite clear in the information that was provided to this bill\u2014which is not full amount of information that would have been provided if it had gone through a full select committee process, but nevertheless it is quite clear\u2014that roughly 7,000 people will have their accommodation supplement reduced on average by $100.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, the points have been made about whether that is a good thing or not and the Government have made their views. I\u2019m not doing that in this contribution; I\u2019m simply saying that that is what the bill does. Now, if we look at what the bill does\u2014that 7,000 people will have their accommodation supplement reduced depending on their circumstances\u2014and you look at this title of the bill, Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill, I think there is a mismatch. That\u2019s why my amendment will propose that this title accurately reflects what this bill does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIt reduces the accommodation supplement in certain circumstances. And I don\u2019t think any Government member will take a call to counter that point, because it does. In fact, all of their contributions have been to justify that fact\u2014no one\u2019s disputing it; it is a fact. The Government views that it is justifiable in certain circumstances that people who rely on accommodation supplement should have that supplement reduced. So it is our very clear proposal to the committee that the title should simply reflect that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIt would be interesting to hear the Minister for Social Development and Employment\u2019s response to that. Regardless of whether she likes the idea of changing the title, it is a legitimate question to pose: does she believe that the title should accurately reflect the contents of the bill? Does she believe that it is incorrect to state that this bill reduces accommodation supplement in certain circumstances, and, if not, why won\u2019t she support a title change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba80b4d4ada845968a65e577b4907f02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba80b4d4ada845968a65e577b4907f02\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Well, I couldn\u2019t say too much after that last contribution, but I will because the Hon Kieran McAnulty couldn\u2019t have been more on the mark\u2014he was right on the mark. All the way through this argument in terms of this kaupapa, we have been talking about the pressures on wh\u0101nau and the pressures on communities, so I\u2019m just adding to and complementing what my colleagues have said. I think there\u2019s no doubt that this is about a reduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIf the Minister for Social Development and Employment could grasp that, we might all be able to go home a bit earlier\u2014we just change the title and on we go. I also suggest that we change the title to the \u201CAccommodation Assistance and Income-related Rent Reduction Act\u201D. Why? For the very people who need it most\u2014for the very, very people who need it most\u2014we\u2019ve got a cost of living crisis. Many people are taking on boarders to help with the crisis, not to get rich. No one gets rich doing this sort of stuff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI heard my colleague Helen White talking about how tough it is in terms of Auckland in particular. You\u2019ve got rentals with a minimum of two bedrooms at $600 to $700 a week. Young couples go in\u2014I know; I have had my own family members going out and renting. You don\u2019t get much for two bedrooms. You don\u2019t get much\u2014[Interruption]\u2014and it\u2019s not rubbish. You can come to Auckland if you don\u2019t believe me. If you\u2019re lucky you get a $600 place, but there are young couples around Helen White\u2019s area, around Mount Eden and so on, who see places at $800 a week for a basic, three-room place\u2014not a flash set-up, just an average place. So what do they do? They get a flatmate in just to help with that rent\u2014and we\u2019re taking away that opportunity. We\u2019re looking at people losing an average of $100 a week; $143 for two boarders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re calculating the impact on up to around 20,000 people\u2014[Interruption] Yeah, the numbers may well be better. Do we want to do this to good Kiwis? I have to ask that question of the Government today. Why do you want to take away that opportunity? These are not the big landlords that the National Government is interested in. A lot of these are aunties and uncles and mums and dads and young couples who are just trying to get by, and it\u2019s a travesty that we\u2019re going down this track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re talking about a reduction. in terms of what\u2019s happening here. So I have to ask the Minister why she would consider going down that track, given the cost of living is such a high priority\u2014so we hear from this Government. It just seems mean-spirited when you consider these changes and what\u2019s happening that the Government would not consider a title change. It would help so many people along the way. We\u2019ve got people in fear at the coalface now, in fear of whether they can pay their rent, in fear now that they\u2019re going to lose that opportunity to look after their wh\u0101nau, look after their home, and look after their kids.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EDoes the National Government want to be aligned with that? They\u2019ve had the worst headlines of any Government in history that\u2019s just put out a Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfaaf00320f0418dacaf5e2841752e78\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh! Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022133c2d83c12346cca681eab1756a5509\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not sure if they read the media, but I have to say I enjoyed watching the news and watching them squirming over the last couple of days\u2014and I might be going off track a little bit, Mr Chair. I wouldn\u2019t want to upset you, of course, Mr Chair. This title is an incredibly important title because it reflects the pain and suffering that our people are going through, and we just have to be upfront that the Government wants to reduce and continue to penalise good Kiwis at the coalface. The title \u201CAccommodation Assistance and Income-related Rent Reduction Act\u201D better reflects what\u2019s in the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u0022d739c36916bd45f491b2ca9f3546f8fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d739c36916bd45f491b2ca9f3546f8fd\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022b909262f078e4a0db9915b8c61528554\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b909262f078e4a0db9915b8c61528554\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll indicate\u2014we\u2019ve had some pretty good contextual contributions and policy contributions; we\u2019re now looking for very targeted contributions speaking to amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022 data-id=\u002217d1b63fab914b1dbd89aba3d18586f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217d1b63fab914b1dbd89aba3d18586f9\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It\u2019s amazing\u2014we\u2019re back already. It hasn\u2019t been so long overnight. I am seeking to get engagement, particularly in the supplementary analysis report. We know that we didn\u2019t get some other reports because this is being rushed through under urgency, so we\u2019re really using this analysis here to scrutinise the bill, which would have been done through a select committee process. I want to talk to section three\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288533d8df4214a65adf7ae913c5764d9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: No. We\u2019re not scrutinising the bill. We\u2019re on the title and commencement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d737c89a73c47af9641fa82ba08ffc5\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes\u2014scrutinising the title, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a89425f795d4c949dee8abd92478d4a\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221a6d179d24542a7a598cdd79d2124ae\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: This better be a serious point of order and not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a452d08302014980a187e8ff7267b248\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: It is a serious point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c433111a93c149809f70f205479ab2cb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Well\u2014point of order, Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b81b6f5829ae4af29cbe57df66c47f38\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: I totally hear you, Mr Chair. I also want to understand where in the debate in a bill that\u2019s rushed under urgency, do we, for example, adequately scrutinise and get engagement from the Minister\u2014because we haven\u2019t gotten engagement on this\u2014on, for example, the cost, the fiscal implications, of the choice of a commencement date. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s genuinely no other part of the debate to get engagement from the Minister on the genuine fiscal and staffing implications of this. So if it\u2019s not on the commencement, where? Where would the Chair want us to actually ask about the real money implications of the choice of the commencement date?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211da50b0e58a4c33b085692f516e2b5f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s not in the title and commencement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263633662b4c34e4c83e829311120d9e1\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chair. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022781ce1a2648d488d89cff3e016fe6bf5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just say that if it relates to title and commencement and it\u2019s contextual\u2014however, it will be very clearly related to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e353e889b294eecb5e440bad4b429d8\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. My contribution, my questions, are directly related to the commencement of this bill, particularly phase two, which is in this analysis, saying that from 2 March 2026\u2014and I want to point to it. This is \u201CSection 3: Delivering an option\u201D \u201CHow will the new [amendments] be implemented.\u201D This is looking at how, with this commencement date that is coming, we will actually implement this for people who will be affected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EI\u2019m looking at the increased front-line capacity section, bullet point two: \u201CMSD will increase its front-line resource to update boarder information prior to the beginning of phase two. Some additional resource will also be required on an ongoing basis for the administration policy.\u201D This is from the supplementary analysis report, talking about commencement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EI\u2019m seeking engagement on how this particularly will impact rural communities, and I\u2019m talking about rural communities who do not have a Ministry of Social Development (MSD) office there. What is the Minister for Social Development and Employment doing to increase that capacity for rural communities? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223174d509d76d4f2099a45aa98d52e743\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: For the commencement date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221860d459fde406db20a96a162b5aa58\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: For the commencement date. We\u2019re talking about 2 March 2026. It\u2019s coming quickly. We know MSD is already overwrought and having unmanageable caseloads, so we really want to understand what is being done on this commencement date of 2 March 2026. I would suggest that we could move this to 2027, 2028, or 2029.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EWhen those areas, these rural areas, do not have an office: what is being done to ensure that geographical distance, that other factors\u2014last night we heard about how this is going to impact disabled people disproportionately; they\u2019re already struggling to get services. So I think that rural communities deserve servicing. And we know that the nature of boarding means that household circumstances can change frequently, so I\u2019m really seeking clarification on this commencement date. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EJust going back to Speakers\u2019 rulings, where it says that we can expect engagement on our questions from the Minister. That goes hand in hand with the members here acting in a way that makes this House proud of us. We\u2019re really earnestly trying to scrutinise this bill and to see how it affects the people of Aotearoa. It\u2019s really important that we talk about this, and I\u2019m seeking that engagement on the commencement, which is 2 March\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00227cda20a49092434a835f45011ef49df2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227cda20a49092434a835f45011ef49df2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022616a0da3b6a44a0da7d3c0a404298588\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022616a0da3b6a44a0da7d3c0a404298588\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve got a very genuine question about commencement for the Minister for Social Development and Employment. We haven\u2019t actually had any engagement from the Minister on this part. The question I have is: why is the commencement date what it is? Because I have put some propositions to you, but I\u2019ve put them as this is how I think it is. So I just want to make sure that you get\u2014and I would like an answer from you as to why you\u2019ve picked that particular date. Now, I have suggested to you that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226139ef7ddda8444f806ed164aea2a7bd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: To the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b77c8b821324678a02191f73a30571b\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, sorry. I\u2019ve suggested to the Minister that the reason for doing this is because there needs to be savings by a particular time. And obviously we have an election next year. But I\u2019ve also seen in what I\u2019ve read that there\u2019s an issue over actually knowing who it is who is out there who have boarders, because we don\u2019t have that information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWhat we will be going on to in the next bill is something that is complementary to this. We have to drag every person who\u2019s getting a benefit or an accommodation supplement\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223199f50686b84723904d933afb3b69f7\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253895af9e454440495ef5eece892398e\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014all those working people, we\u2019re dragging them in for review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc55fb333ba94e72b44bdc303badc0a6\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d789d6414a0949d79da9a7bcaffe5699\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m talking\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a016c8de74d4313aac028ae30dc1643\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022255a8ed8ab6e462098868fc056234506\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a657022b28e451887c805c9fd179b8a\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab6775c5b83840f29e2cbf9a4088efc1\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m absolutely talking about this bill, because I\u2019m asking about the commencement and why it is. And what there seems to be\u2014and I\u2019m putting a proposition to you. You can tell me if it\u2019s wrong, but I\u2019d like you to stand up and tell the whole world. So I want to know: am I right that what you are doing is you\u2019re bringing in the next law that we\u2019ll look at and that will bring in automated\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265a55fb453934cedbba77d458092b06b\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I\u2019ve just been trying to make the point by interjections, but I don\u2019t think the member\u2019s picked it up, but \u201Cyou\u201D is it means the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022701933e295b54e91b241ef91cdb3e912\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, if you\u2019d been listening, you\u2019d see I have been correcting her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022516aa035430e4aaeae3351d67db9520b\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely. I apologise. I\u2019ve just recognised that and I definitely will attempt to not do that again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThe Minister is bringing in a bill that comes with this one\u2014it\u2019s complementary\u2014and it means that everybody gets dragged into the Ministry of Social Development for a review. And because that would be huge, they can\u2019t do that, so it has to have time. So we are having an automated system\u2014so a much more faceless system\u2014do that. People will come in and then they will be advised on this date next year that their benefits or their accommodation supplement is going to be reduced in that way. Is that why we\u2019ve got this particular date\u2014because that\u2019s the first date the Government can actually get organised enough to make a money grab?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWhen we are hearing that this is all about equity; that\u2019s not really correct, is it? Because the date itself tells the story. This isn\u2019t about equity; this is about getting ducks in a row in time to be able to calculate how much money the Minister and the Government can take off the people who are getting accommodation supplement because they don\u2019t currently have information about who has boarders, because up until now, it\u2019s been OK to have a boarder. We\u2019ve all seen the point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EAm I right in that? I would really like an answer, because, so far, the Minister has not answered a single question in these parts. These are important parts, because they go to the purpose and they go to the actual implementation and effect on people. So I would like the Minister to answer those questions, not from her seat\u2014not from her seat in a way that nobody can hear\u2014but for the record, on Hansard. Tell us why this commencement date is actually where it is and please justify that fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022035e2426dc9340308ceb4a7835ea4f2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022035e2426dc9340308ceb4a7835ea4f2a\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Let me repeat it, because the member Helen White clearly didn\u2019t listen when I took my opening address on the title and commencement. I said it was a Budget 2024 measure. This is a 22-month lead time between Budget 2024 and 2 March 2026, so 22 months is a significant period of time for people to understand this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe other point that I would make, in terms of the title of this bill, which is the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill: taxpayers fund all housing support. This bill doesn\u2019t mean you can\u2019t take boarders\u2014I said that before; I\u2019ll repeat it again. The member doesn\u2019t seem to understand that. People can have boarders, but the income from those boarders must be taken into account for the housing support. That\u2019s what hard-working New Zealanders, when they pay tax, would expect. They would also expect that two people are not claiming housing assistance for the same house. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not changing the title of the bill; it is very clear. I\u2019m not changing the commencement date; there\u2019s a 22-month lead-in time and the chief executive of the Ministry of Social Development is very clear about what is required to operationalise this decision. There\u2019s 22 months to do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u0022a76215cebcf34fde81b5fa24de4b2b08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a76215cebcf34fde81b5fa24de4b2b08\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. My questions do relate to the commencement date. I want to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237e1a02e567a4a73a4c569df3a87b395\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Welcome back, Barbara. M\u014Drena!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e59da4b657304980bd9c2bf9fa38f35c\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: Whatever, everybody. It\u2019s really great to see everybody this morning. I heard you had a very long voting capacity last night. Going back to the actual bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1bd977dd1cd4d8bb38fef7a700c55ef\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I know those first early morning coffees are starting to hit home, but can we just keep the noise down? It\u2019s very difficult to hear down here, in what\u2019s becoming a mosh pit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022497fda43d23e462e9268e35a789d43a0\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m always grateful to be welcomed into the committee. I just actually want to ask some questions based off the response that was given by the Minister for Social Development and Employment, because she did say that this was a Budget 2024 initiative; I acknowledge that. I also acknowledge that the Minister said that the advice that she received from the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) needed a 22-month lead-in time in order to get to that 2 March 2026 policy effect date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThe question I have, really, in relation to the commencement date, because it is an odd date, you know\u2014it\u2019s not a year end, it\u2019s not a financial date like 31 March or 1 April or any other time frame in relation to other particular dates that you can find within legislation\u20142 March 2026. The question I had is in response to the Minister\u2019s comments, when she said it was a Budget 2024 initiative, when I\u2019m looking at the supplementary analysis report, because there was no regulatory impact statement that was put in for this. Officials said that tight time frames also constrained the development of policy advice, including consultation, so \u201Cthe decision to fully implement\u201D\u2014I\u2019m quoting from that supplementary analysis report\u2014\u201Cpolicy changes by early 2026 has meant that advice on the detailed policy design has been subject to tight time constraints. As a result, there has been limited time for the analysis of existing and potential new settings, international comparisons, as well as analysis of operational impacts.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EI acknowledge, again, the Minister did spend a lot of time in the chair yesterday\u2014or at least there were many questions from different members of the committee on different parts, as to around that consultation aspect. But the question\u2014which relates back to Helen White\u2019s contribution a little bit earlier\u2014about why this particular date, I\u2019m just trying to understand the different phases which officials also set out in that supplementary paper. Members, it\u2019s on page 34. There\u2019s quite a big table in there, and it talks about the different phasing that is needed through that particular implementation, which is why, again, I don\u2019t quite understand the 2 March date. Yes, it is from Budget 2024. There was a limited consultation. There have been various time constraints, which officials have set out in their supplementary analysis report. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EOfficials, at least in this report, in the absence of a regulatory impact statement, did set up those operational implementation dates: phase one, 22 May 2025. From mid-2025, it goes through all the different policy changes: sending correspondence out to clients, sending out general communications to raise awareness of the changes, enabling clients to declare their board payments through our online and paper channels, link those receiving board with those paying board with the same household in the system to prevent double subsidisation. I do want to acknowledge MSD for their work on that, because they\u2019ve tried to\u2014in the time constraints that they\u2019ve been given, even though this was a decision made in 2024\u2014think about how do they communicate this to affected clients in order for their operational changes to their text system to be ready from 2 March.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EMinister, I do want to ask the question again, and I know you\u2019ve said it\u2019s to allow for that 22-month lead-in time, but why 2 March? It is a very, very odd date. Is that the first date that MSD has said to you that they believe that that is when this could be implemented fully, or had they suggested another date, perhaps even of 1 April 2026? I mean, I totally respect the fact that officials have had time constraints, even though this was a Budget decision made last year. There is a 22-month lead-in time, but my concern is just that misalignment with other key sort of dates for a lot of people, particularly when it comes to financial years. Why 2 March, which is quite odd? Then when you go to the way officials set it out in the supplementary analysis report, about that phase two from 2 March, it says they\u2019ll begin the IRR reviews\u2014income-related rents reviews\u2014of social housing tenants. That begins to include the housing contributions for boarders from 2 March 2026.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EIt then goes on: \u201CIf a social housing tenant has boarders, their IRR will change at the time of their annual review.\u201D Is it the annual review which is why it\u2019s 2 March? It doesn\u2019t really matter that it\u2019s an odd date. Is that why, because the annual review could be at any date within a calendar year? Then: \u201CThe implementation ensures IRR clients do not receive multiple rent increases in 12 months and other changes are implemented as soon as possible.\u201D So my understanding through the supplementary analysis report\u2014and, again, I know the Minister has acknowledged around consultation; we are in urgency, which is the really sad thing about it, because it\u2019s quite clear there are little elements of this bill which would have actually possibly helped having some public consultation, which is why members on this side of the Chamber are going through it step by step.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EJust wanting to understand, again: is 2 March\u2014it\u2019s because of all the reasons that Minister has talked about? It is an odd date. Is that because the annual reviews for these clients can be any particular date of the year? This is the start date in which, after all the letters and the communications, which I acknowledge MSD will be trying to do from mid-2025\u2014why 2 March? Because it is, again, a very odd date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abf72045ea81458d837e9144e78d5bda\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Grant McCallum\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd82eaaf6ad04ed9ab04a3ec5b304baf\u0022\u003EMiles Anderson\u003C/span\u003E: Miles Anderson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022073df4ac88444940af19f8edb7aee206\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sorry. Miles Anderson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022 data-id=\u00229a49cb78f3ed44558a4df6b24c23ebee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a49cb78f3ed44558a4df6b24c23ebee\u0022\u003EMILES ANDERSON (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00229f68ed50596e4d4ebcc01e1b02e34f6c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f68ed50596e4d4ebcc01e1b02e34f6c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we\u2019re going to be speaking directly to amendments. We\u2019re going to be speaking to the title and commencement and the third part of that, obviously, is ministerial involvement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00224fc860a799ba4c8fb7c9258cd715864f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224fc860a799ba4c8fb7c9258cd715864f\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Just also noting that the previous speaker, the Hon Barbara Edmonds, asked some really good questions on the commencement date of 2 March from the perspective of what is in the document. But on the commencement date, one of my amendments is around changing the commencement date. It\u2019s to adjust the commencement date to push it back a little bit, because, yes, I do hear from the Minister for Social Development and Employment that this is something from Budget 2024, but we have seen some of the things that\u2019ve been implemented in Budget 2024 not having had the intended expectation, from an agency perspective, throughout the year. So I guess, for this particular date, whether the Minister didn\u2019t have other confidence that 2 March 2026 is doable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EOne of the things we do notice\u2014particularly from a personnel and from an application perspective when we\u2019re looking at new assessment and assessment of changing circumstances\u2014is the way that the transitional elements are going to work when applicants make those kinds of adjustments from here and to 2 March and what goes beyond from 2 March 2026. So my question to the Minister is: if the Minister has confidence in the fact that the Ministry of Social Development is able to do this, what sort of staffing expectations and restructuring and reallocation of resources would be expected as a result of this particular date, and, if those are not feasible, whether the Minister would consider our amendments around moving the date back. I think I myself have an amendment which moves the date to 2 March 2027 just to give it a little more time, and I know my colleagues Kahurangi Carter and Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March also have amendments to a similar effect of adjusting the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, in terms of the title of this, I do wonder whether the Minister, in the bracketed title \u201CAccommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent\u201D\u2014whether that accurately captures, because a lot of the context of what they\u2019re talking about here is boarders, yet boarders are not a part of the title. So I wondered if the Minister would consider some of the titles that we have proposed, alternative titles that specifically make references to boarders as part of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ESo my two questions around clause 2 and clause 1: from a clause 2 perspective, in terms of 2\u00A0March, we\u2019re still waiting to hear the Minister\u2019s response to the previous speaker, the Hon Barbara Edmonds. But my question was around the staffing, more in terms of the transitional measures from now until 2 March when we are looking at assessment of new applications and how that\u2019s going to work, and whether, despite the fact it\u2019s a Budget 2024 initiative, this is going to be something that is viable and the Minister has confidence in that\u2014if not, will the Minister consider my amendment, and, alternatively, in terms of the title, whether the Minister would consider including the word \u201Cboarder\u201D in that to capture the bill more accurately?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EOne last small request is that if the Minister were to respond to any of these questions, if the Minister wouldn\u2019t mind looking at the people who are asking those questions as well to make a little bit of eye contact. Thank you so much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002254114508e6644b7ea54409787e7c2e77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002254114508e6644b7ea54409787e7c2e77\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E As I said in answer to my previous question, the chief executive is the one responsible for operationalising this policy. Part of that is taking into account their other workload and other significant Ministry of Social Development activities. One of the other members has mentioned the annual general adjustment, which is of course why March has been chosen, not April. One of the other members read through the whole timeline for the implementation to allow clients plenty of time to understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u002267b2cf21b00141568c20808987311072\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267b2cf21b00141568c20808987311072\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002291b2fefa88c142309a9ecff01bb0c5d6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00223826f87dbc294610b87043ef598d8fde\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223826f87dbc294610b87043ef598d8fde\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Adjustments to Boarders\u2019 Contributions)\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e3d2a951b293491db302b12a0170a584\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u0022fac773a32dbe49aca23c0fa2ddc1fcc6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fac773a32dbe49aca23c0fa2ddc1fcc6\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ve had a look at these tabled amendments, and just before we go through any more voting on them, can I just point to Speakers\u2019 ruling 130/2 on page 130, which says, \u201CAn amendment to the title of a bill must be a serious or objective description of the bill rather than an attempt to criticise its contents.\u201D I\u2019ve looked through at least 12 of those in the tabled amendments lodged by the Green Party. And the second point\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ede222a18f2148c39e6ea2294e153f24\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if I may, Mr Mooney\u2014if you could wait, you\u2019ll see just how they will be ruled on. It may well be that you might be surprised to find there may be some agreement with your observations on some of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Prevention of Double Subsidisation)\u201D is ruled out of order as being contrary to a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(National Loves Cars So Much That They Want More People to Live in Them)\u201D is out of order as being merely an attempt to criticise the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Accommodation Adjustments and Additional Acclimitisations)\u201D is ruled out of order as being contrary to a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Changes to Eligibility of Accommodation Supplement and Income Related Rent Subsidies)\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002281ed91fa46254fc68f284f3b0b026be0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022d64861f3840e4ee48e52628323d0fd65\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d64861f3840e4ee48e52628323d0fd65\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Reduction in Accommodation Supplement and Other Matters)\u201D is ruled out of order as not being an objective description of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Inclusion of All Boarders\u2019 Contributions and Other Matters)\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002205fd8f7a30bf4f28a17ff61e41606ef8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc94f8049c0845adab8c02b772f6ec4a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc94f8049c0845adab8c02b772f6ec4a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Punishing Boarders in Order to Pay for Landlord Tax Cuts)\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Automated Decision Making for the Purposes of Accommodation Supplement Eligibility and Other Matters)\u201D is out of order as not being an objective description of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Adjustments to the Administration of Accommodation Supplement and Income Related Rent Subsidies and Other Matters)\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c88db557d29441f49f65b8f0d73d0ccf\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00224ad00e9db72f40a68f0397cc5f032d09\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ad00e9db72f40a68f0397cc5f032d09\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Pushing People who Board into More Precarious Housing)\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Higher Threshold to Receive Accommodation Supplement and Income Related Rent Subsidies and Other Matters)\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022165da9f244f84a088037086e495d43e7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002207578dc42f78473282a47e2fb9f9aa94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207578dc42f78473282a47e2fb9f9aa94\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(More People in Hardship)\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Make Life Harder for Disabled People)\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Disabled People Can\u2019t Live with Their Support Workers)\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Solo Mums Get Left in the Cold)\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Isolate Disabled People)\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Lonely Kaum\u0101tua)\u201D is out of order as being merely an attempt to criticise the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Francisco Hernandez\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Social Security Act, Public and Community Housing Management Act, Public and Community Housing Regulations 2018)\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022014e384b75784bd69ae3e86edc94067c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00228ffe98107c204630b4949a3c9292e47c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ffe98107c204630b4949a3c9292e47c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Francisco Hernandez\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(We Hate Beneficiaries)\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EFrancisco Hernandez\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Boarder Restriction)\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Francisco Hernandez\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Subsidisation Limitation)\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a20070f3c5ba4a549eae6396ca7b59a8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022018c7fae098a424c8f0834c7e40a5274\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022018c7fae098a424c8f0834c7e40a5274\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Scott Willis\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Except for Our Most at Risk)\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ERachel Boyack\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Reduced Household Moolah)\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Reducing the Accommodation Supplement in Certain Circumstances)\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002226b5c98a55044b6b9fbfbc1f0c246914\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002231cd0b9679bb44f6badfd97f885cb62b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231cd0b9679bb44f6badfd97f885cb62b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Helen White\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Let Them Eat Cake)\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Loss of Accommodation Supplement for No Good Reason)\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Reducing Accommodation Supplement As Soon As There Is A Boarder)\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022472a2d6e60bc4e96b395b301260c168c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022eba987b697134820b9c36b9d6bcfff11\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eba987b697134820b9c36b9d6bcfff11\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Helen White\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Kick Them When They Try To Get Ahead)\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ERachel Boyack\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Reduced Wh\u0101nau Income)\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Removing P\u016Btea from the Vulnerable)\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ERachel Boyack\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Banning Boarders)\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Hon Willie Jackson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Kick the Maoris in the Guts)\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 replacing \u201C(Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent)\u201D with \u201C(Penalising People for Taking on Boarders)\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225811436d239346188357397d657104b4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000141\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022164a4161b52a47988fff03450c19d8be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022164a4161b52a47988fff03450c19d8be\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Helen White\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 2 to replace \u201C2026\u201D with \u201C2028\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000143\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022cbc8a7190fba4532b84e82b7b416a9b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cbc8a7190fba4532b84e82b7b416a9b2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 2 to replace \u201C2026\u201D with \u201C2027\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000145\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022b38cefb65af54111af1a880e85480a5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b38cefb65af54111af1a880e85480a5d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Willie Jackson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 2 is out of order being the same in substance as a previous amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 2 replacing \u201C2 March 2026\u201D with \u201C1 January 2027\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000148\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000149\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000150\u0022\u003EBill to be reported without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000151\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00223039263ebebb49c78835ceed0bc693b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223039263ebebb49c78835ceed0bc693b4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, the committee has considered the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill and reports it without amendment. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022caf54331ef7e4201a049a72fef21ffbc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022caf54331ef7e4201a049a72fef21ffbc\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is set down for third reading immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002244c0337b6a4241c7bee221812e045d2f\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022677dfce04dab4ad192c37864896bf434\u0022\u003ERecall of the Speaker\u2014Closure Motions and Party Votes\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022d106f69174d3473eb0e66bbda8fd738c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d106f69174d3473eb0e66bbda8fd738c\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. I apologise to the Minister; however, this is the first opportunity we\u2019ve had to raise this point of order, given that we\u2019ve just come out of committee. We would have had the opportunity to raise this if our motion to recall the Speaker was approved by the committee. It was not, which is regrettable. Nevertheless, this is the appropriate opportunity to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThere are two matters that I wish to raise. One is regarding closure motions and the other is regarding calling for party votes. Specifically, I\u2019m referring to Standing Order 137(1). Now, in that Standing Order, it specifically prescribes what is required when a question is being put around\u2014or should be considered around\u2014the closure motion. And in Standing Orders, it quotes what is required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, last evening, the presiding officer at the time indicated that it doesn\u2019t need to be exactly accurate as outlined in Standing Orders, but it just needs to be there or thereabouts in so far as the presiding officer understands the intent of the motion and therefore can proceed. Now, that is a significant departure from what is outlined in Standing Orders. Now, sir, I\u2019m not asking for you to rule on that now, but what I am asking for is a commitment to report back to the House to provide absolute clarity. In the absence of that, it is possible that a new Speaker\u2019s ruling would be created that is counter to Standing Orders, which I don\u2019t think is in the interest of anyone in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe second point is in regard to calling for party votes when there is a motion to recall the Speaker. It\u2019s not my intention to dispute the decision that was made around the Speaker. I think there\u2019s a fair bit of reflection being made around the House at the moment. There was one instance in the previous Parliament where that was voted against; that was wrong, it should not have happened. There was one in the previous Parliament; there\u2019s now been one in this Parliament. I\u2019m hoping that the House can decide that, \u201COK, we\u2019ll call it even. We\u2019ll go back to the convention in regard to motions to recall the Speaker.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EHowever, what is of concern is the decision that was made in committee that a party vote would not be put. The motion was made to recall the Speaker, the Government members voted No, a party vote was called, and the presiding officer did not allow that to happen. Now, that is actually also counter to Standing Orders. The process for dealing with a motion to recall the Speaker\u2014Standing Order 179 doesn\u2019t indicate that there isn\u2019t to be a party vote. In the absence of any specified information about that, the only option that we\u2019ve got is to go back to Standing Orders 142(1), which quite clearly outlines the process for a party vote to be considered when it is called for. There is nothing else in Standing Orders around that\u2014that is the only thing that we can go for. All I\u2019m asking for is a commitment for both of those points to be reflected on by the Speaker\u2019s office alongside the Clerk\u2019s Office, and a report back so that the House is very clear around the process on both those things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u002219bea74baa8c43509aa503d3124eae6c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219bea74baa8c43509aa503d3124eae6c\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the point of order. Thank you, Mr Speaker. All of the points that were just made are actually irrelevant because the Clerk\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263da110d402d44fa90fbff21a569cd77\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll decide if they\u2019re relevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bffad6a7e8234ff291c91ffe10878a8b\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly. Well, I just sort of wanted to make the point\u2014I accept absolutely it\u2019s your decision, Mr Speaker, but the point of order was raised by the Opposition after the Chair had decided to commence voting. Voting had commenced and the Opposition disrupted that not once but twice. They disrupted it first when they were of the view that the question hadn\u2019t been completely put. It had been mostly put, but not completely. There were two words, from recollection, that were missing. The Chair then put the vote again, accepted a full closure motion with full wording, and then the Opposition disrupted that again with a point of order. They disrupted the vote twice, so everything that followed, I would suggest, is irrelevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00229d4100cbd6c646c18a9af7c19ac0c0c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d4100cbd6c646c18a9af7c19ac0c0c1\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I actually agree with that description of events. I\u2019ve got three points here and the rest of the points we can go back and reflect on. Just to the points from the Hon Kieran McAnulty: he is correct, but in the heat of the moment the exact words might not have been gotten right. But nothing has changed: the exact words of Standing Order 137 should be used. And just to acknowledge that there is a longstanding custom of the committee agreeing to recall the Speaker\u2014Speaker\u2019s ruling\u00A081/2; it is not an absolute right, but it would be unfortunate if it was opposed and would likely slow down committee stages. So just to note that as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThere should also be no need for a party vote because the recall should be agreed to. Where it\u2019s not, a party vote is the way to decide it. And, also, to note that the presiding officer who was here in the Chair is at the moment having discussions with parties as well. In terms of the points that I have talked about just before, that has taken care of some of the issues. If there are other prevailing issues outside of that, we will get back to you. I now call the Hon Louise Upston.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022c056595f95f6485d85798dc00f6f8101\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c056595f95f6485d85798dc00f6f8101\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the point of order. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I just want to clarify one particular point that the previous person, Joseph Mooney, has mentioned in terms of the voting process. I wanted to get clarification from you, Mr Speaker, that in the context of that, when a vote is called but prior to the vote being called a point of order was raised but then because the mic wasn\u2019t on and the presiding officer couldn\u2019t hear it, in those circumstances would a point of order that was raised be considered before or after a vote has been triggered? Because I don\u2019t think it\u2019s entirely accurate to say that\u2014if we go back and look at the video from last night, when that was done we deliberately and explicitly mentioned to the presiding officer at the time that the point of order was raised prior to the vote being called. But the presiding officer couldn\u2019t hear properly because there was a lot of other noise around the presiding officer at the time. I just want to get clarification from you, Mr Speaker: in that particular context, when the point of order is raised, would that be considered prior to a vote or do we assume it\u2019s after a vote has commenced?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227963005e139f4092b45b57194f1e44bf\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just take some advice on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022662a6b26c5e54ed3a13ecc57045de928\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b271ff20cb8e42fa90ee5ee147efb2e0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Sit down. Look, just to note for the House that these issues are done. I have made a ruling. There are extra things that may be addressed, but that can happen outside of this Chamber. If you do have extra points that need to be revisited, we can do that, but it\u2019s not enough to actually hold up the business of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e6f08158af2541aaa5e05678f154e745\u0022\u003ESocial Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221dcb72b344c84ef489afeda276c22550\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3eedaa536114b8492f99e4cbac78db6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3eedaa536114b8492f99e4cbac78db6\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EOur Government is working hard to ensure our welfare system is sustainable so it can continue to provide assistance to those in need. This bill will recognise payments from all boarders when assessing a person\u2019s entitlement to housing subsidies and other forms of income and assistance. This will help to ensure that taxpayers are not subsidising the same accommodation costs twice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ECurrently, payments from the first and second boarder are disregarded when assessing housing subsidies and other forms of income-tested assistance under the Social Security Act 2018 and when calculating a social housing tenant\u2019s income-related rent. Currently, only payments from the third and subsequent boarders impact a person\u2019s income for the purpose of calculating entitlements to assistance under the Social Security Act 2018, unless the contributions received are the person\u2019s main source of income. For social housing tenants, only contributions received from the third and subsequent additional residents count towards their assessable income when calculating the rate of income-related rent, unless the contributions received are a person\u2019s main source of income. This bill seeks to amend the Social Security Act 2018 and the Public and Community Housing Management Act 1992 and associated regulations to ensure all board payments are treated in a similar way to all other forms of income.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI want to quickly outline the key proposals. There are two key policy changes. The first is recognising that housing contributions received 62 percent of payments from all boarders when assessing their entitlement to housing subsidies. And the second to treat housing contributions from boarders that exceed the total allowable accommodation costs, or the market rent applicable for the social housing property as income for any other income-tested assistance that uses the Social Security Act 2018 definition of income. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe bill also includes other amendments aimed to improve the implementation of the policy proposals. These include defining boarders in the Social Security Act 2018 for the purposes of accommodation supplement, and if a person is not identified as a boarder, they will be treated as a renter; enabling a new disputes process for when the information provided by a person paying board or rent and the person receiving the board or rent doesn\u2019t match; making the accommodation supplement no longer a discretionary payment; and specifying that the portion of a property that a person lives in that is used for their business will be excluded for accommodation costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThis bill implements changes that are based on common sense and fairness. As this bill goes through its third reading, I want to reassure members of the House that the changes proposed in this bill will only affect those who receive board payments. It will impact those people who are currently at an unfair advantage compared to others who receive another form of income, and these changes will address that inconsistency. Most people who receive housing subsidies will not be impacted at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI do want to thank the officials who have worked on this very important piece of legislation, which is part of this Government\u2019s commitment to ensuring our welfare system is sustainable and focuses its effort on assisting those in need. The changes in this bill should be seen in the context of how other forms of income are treated when calculating housing and income assistance, and all income from every boarder and every renter from now on will be considered, which is only fair and reasonable. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00224a01843ceb5e4ef68673be3db5ebaeba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a01843ceb5e4ef68673be3db5ebaeba\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, another shocking piece of legislation from this Government. You would have thought that after the rotten week that they\u2019ve had, they might have had something nice for New Zealanders, but they just keep piling it on, piling it on, piling it on. As I said earlier, look at the news; look everywhere. Even their most ardent supporters are putting the boot in, because it\u2019s an uncaring, insensitive, punitive Government that is going to get its comeuppance in about 16 months\u2014might only be in about three or four months, the way they\u2019re going\u2014because New Zealanders have had enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThis appalling amendment attacks the infrastructure of renters who have a boarder with them to cover costs, and will only serve to take money from the poorest renters. The amendment will attack solo parents. It\u2019ll take from the disabled. It\u2019ll negatively impact M\u0101ori, Pasifika, and working people the hardest. The exemption of the first two boarders was to encourage better utilisation of State housing and encourage beneficiary households, particularly sole parent beneficiaries living in larger State houses, to take on a boarder or boarders to just offset some of the costs. So, you know, there was some thinking behind the previous policy, unlike this policy that penalises people and is going to, again, affect our community terribly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWhat this Government now wants to do is bash that infrastructure and take money directly out of the pockets of beneficiaries and sole parents at the same time as this Government announces more punitive welfare sanctions. Where\u2019s the regulatory impact statement on this legislation? There wasn\u2019t one, because this Government doesn\u2019t care. It will hurt the poorest renters hardest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI\u2019m worried, and I think our team in the Opposition here\u2014Greens, Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, ourselves\u2014has been worried right through this process here, by the lack of voices here to speak to what the amendment will be like in practice, because they have not been given that opportunity. We talk about democracy, but the people who are being hurt don\u2019t get the chance\u2014don\u2019t get the opportunity\u2014to vent their views to this Government. For many, they\u2019re just keeping their heads above water. Forcing them to include the first and second boarder for the purpose of their housing allowance will push many of them under.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not just the lack of voices or a regulatory impact statement that concerns me, though. It\u2019s not just that we\u2019re robbing the poorest renters to balance the Minister of Finance\u2019s Budget. That needs to be clear. She has been very clear that she will throw New Zealand women under the bus in terms of getting her Budget out. She doesn\u2019t care. She doesn\u2019t care about New Zealand women. She doesn\u2019t care about New Zealand workers, M\u0101ori, disabled, whatever\u2014anything to get their Budget out. And it\u2019s about priorities for the Government. And we\u2014when I say \u201Cwe\u201D: our communities, M\u0101ori, Pasifika, disabled, people at the coalface\u2014are not a priority with this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIn terms of this amendment, it\u2019s the Draconian nature of this amendment that I find most offensive. They sit there over there. They think, \u201COh, it\u2019s so simple. We just balance the books of both\u2014it\u2019s the numbers.\u201D But the Ministry of Social Development (MSD), as has been particularly pointed out by our Green MP over here, who\u2019s certainly got a lot of background in this area, he identified, and I agree, a discrepancy that will give the boarder and head tenant a day to explain\u2014a day to explain. And if MSD is still not happy, they\u2019ll suspend the boarder\u2019s housing allowance and the head tenant after just 10 days. MSD then allows for eight weeks of suspension, followed by cancellation of all housing allowances if they\u2019re still not happy. Oh, that\u2019s a great way to treat our community. It\u2019s an incredibly punitive approach to a system that\u2019s been in place since 1992.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e748d591f7a428da7c15a83f00a324b\u0022\u003ERachel Boyack\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, who was in charge then?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc4e262244c2468a93f42d6070d3bfc9\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that\u2019s right: Jim Bolger. They cut his throat, too, didn\u2019t they? Poor old Jim. Came on our side in the end, didn\u2019t he? Yeah\u20141992. So just another attack. This is another attack on renters, and the Government just can\u2019t pretend that it isn\u2019t. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EMy fear is that this has been designed to catch as many out in as short a period of time, so that MSD can disqualify them from the housing allowance to make their numbers look good again. It\u2019s always about the numbers. It\u2019s never about the people. Kieran McAnulty knows this. Here\u2019s the thing with this side of the House: while they\u2019re ticking their boxes, and Tama Potaka and Chris Bishop are going, \u201COh, we\u2019re doing really great in the emergency housing.\u201D, Kieran McAnulty is looking for the people. Where are the people? They\u2019re out on the street. We\u2019ve got homelessness at its worst in decades, all because of these punitive, disgraceful policies from this Government. Oh, we\u2019ve got \u201CBish\u201D stands up\u2014Chris Bishop\u2014\u201COh, yes, the social housing emergency.\u201D It\u2019s all a load of rubbish\u2014lies. Kieran McAnulty\u2019s on to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re going up to Rotorua on Monday. We\u2019re going up there; we\u2019ll talk with the people up there, talk about the lies coming from this Government in terms of social housing, emergency housing. They\u2019re ticking numbers and they\u2019re putting people out on the street\u2014putting people out on the street. It\u2019s just a stunt. We\u2019ve seen that emergency housing is a stunt. Pay parity is a stunt. Well, it\u2019s not a stunt; it\u2019s real, but it\u2019s part of their stunt\u2014it\u2019s part of their stunt. Their stunt is \u201CWe\u2019ve got to pay for our rich mates. We\u2019ve got to look after our mates\u2014we\u2019ve got to look after our mates.\u201D That\u2019s what it\u2019s all about: change the rules, catch as many people out to disqualify them, and then claim the problem is getting better because there are fewer people receiving the benefit. We know the strategy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThis isn\u2019t social policy; it\u2019s punishment\u2014it\u2019s punishment\u2014for needing help in the first place. They\u2019re taking from the poorest renters. They\u2019re taking from the poorest renters while creating a punishment regime that will automatically suspend payments within 10 days of notification. This will lead to tenants unable to pay their rent, and we\u2019ll see them pushed out and homeless, which will be even more problematic, because the Government has just slashed the emergency housing budget as well. It\u2019s just the flow-on. Why such Draconian measures? Why does the Government keep punishing good Kiwis\u2014Kiwis at the coalface, working-class New Zealanders, M\u0101ori, Pasifika, disabled? It\u2019s like, \u201CWe can save it. Let\u2019s just cut that lot off.\u201D Some of these MPs over here should be ashamed of themselves. The member over there from Takanini, you should be ashamed of yourself. Takanini should throw you out\u2014throw you out. You\u2019ve forgotten your people at the coalface. You\u2019re a disgrace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ecf6cf9803b4437bd1a21c7c39f691e\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: You should be ashamed of how you treated the M\u0101ori wardens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f60c904f40f48c5a3a6cdde037b96ff\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! The M\u0101ori wardens. They give the M\u0101ori wardens a few peanuts\u2014they give them a few peanuts\u2014and then they take $1 billion out of the M\u0101ori budget. But here\u2019s the thing: David Seymour says there\u2019s no such thing as M\u0101oris. \u201CI don\u2019t believe in M\u0101ori budgets.\u201D And the other side of it, this lot, can\u2019t stand up and say, \u201CYou\u2019re wrong, David.\u201D They say, \u201CYes, please, David. No, David. Keep kicking us in the guts, David.\u201D And he rolls out his stupid latest Regulatory Standards Bill. It\u2019s a disgrace and they\u2019re a disgrace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EJust back to the bill\u2014I need to get back to this bill. As I said, the MP for Takanini, she should stand down. She should stand down. She\u2019s feeling so guilty at the moment. Anyway, I want to just wrap up and say our community deserves support. What is clear from this legislation is that as far as this Government is concerned, disabled, M\u0101ori, Pasifika, and working-class renters requiring housing allowances are not part of a community they want to support. Labour speaks against this amendment because it won\u2019t help the poorest renters. It will cost them. It will punish them. And it\u2019s going to come back on this Government over the next 16 months. Kia ora an\u014D t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022a87177ba9141411b9d31dabd5c7b2abb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a87177ba9141411b9d31dabd5c7b2abb\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E There\u2019s only one way to explain the intent of this bill and this is because Minister Louise Upston\u2019s, heart is rotten to the core. How else can you explain a Government\u2014[Interruption]. Yeah, go ahead, take offence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214865c27106740829a122b0fac62dd41\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s been a very longstanding principle for this place that members should not make statements that reflect poorly on other members of the House, and that certainly did. He should withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcdea9ad0e3a456789bdbb9b05017a8c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just take some advice on that because there have been a lot of statements that have been thrown around the House just this morning. So this is how I\u2019m going to deal with this. It is a line call about whether that is a poor reflection, but I would invite all members from now on to really think about their comments. The further note that I would have as well is that interjections should be rare and reasonable. We don\u2019t want an ongoing barrage of commentary, despite some members clearly enjoying that\u2014that is certainly not the experience of all members, though. Is that a point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd3025e7321348429017834e5073bc6e\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I just want to continue. I meant what I said when I said that the Government\u2019s heart is rotten to the core, and this includes the Minister for Social Development and Employment\u2019s, because how else can you explain 14,000-plus people being left worse off as a result of a bill that will strip many low-income people from the accommodation supplement and the income-related rent subsidies? All for what? To pay for tax cuts for the wealthy few and the fossil fuel industry. Shame on this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThe Minister thinks that voters are stupid because she completely omitted details of the bill that will increase hardship for people, that will leave people needing emergency housing, hardship grants, and other forms of temporary assistance. She did not mention this once. All the while we\u2019ve been trying to raise this issue to the Government members, they\u2019ve been laughing away because poverty is a laughing matter for members of the Government. Shame on the Government members who, through urgency, as part of this legislation, have decided to throw thousands of families deeper into poverty to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy few. We deserve much better. The people in public housing who were and are living on the streets and in emergency housing deserve better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWe need a Government that is committed to taxing the wealthy few fairly so that we can have thriving public services, not a Government that is slashing and burning our public services, making the lowest-income workers pay for the tax cuts, including some of our lowest-paid women in some of the most undervalued professions. If you don\u2019t believe me about the impacts of this bill, you\u2019ve just got to look at the analysis made by the Government ministry that talks about the disproportionate impacts that this bill will have, about how M\u0101ori, disabled, the old will be paying a disproportionate price in this bill. They will be left reeling because, on average, people will be paying over $100 more each week as a result of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThis shows that this Government is deeply unserious about addressing the cost of living crisis, because none of them\u2014none of them\u2014have dared, in their contributions, to face up to the fact that this bill, as explained by the Government\u2019s own analysis, will leave accommodation supplement receivers paying $100 on average extra each week. All the while, people in social housing affected by this bill will be, on average, paying an extra $132 a week. That is the difference between people being able to put food on the table and pay their bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EBut they seem to be completely out of touch. For all the performative outrage from people like Joseph Mooney, who talks about having left poverty, clearly he decided to turn his back on the very same people he claimed to represent and belong to. So easy to do when you spend hours and hours in the Koru lounge, talking to people who simply are not reflected on the bill that is literally criminalising people in poverty. The advice on this bill has told us that this bill will literally criminalise people because it will encourage people to have to lie about who they have as boarders in their house. That in and of itself could lead to fraud investigations and people literally being burdened with tens of thousands of dollars in debt or literally facing prison time. Shame on this Government for pushing through a bill that does nothing\u2014nothing\u2014but increase poverty; nothing but increase inequality; nothing but disproportionately affect M\u0101ori, the disabled, Pasifika, and the working poor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThis Government has completely described this bill factually incorrectly, either by choice or because they chose to not read the bill. I haven\u2019t seen any of them honour the communities that will be disproportionately impacted by this\u2014none of them. Those members talked about fairness. Fairness to them seems to be giving more money to the wealthy CEOs, and then leaving over 14,000 people way worse off. Being $100 less each week may not mean much for them, the privileged members on the other side, but it is literally\u2014literally\u2014a lifeline that is lost for families in public housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EBut this is all part of the plan of the Government members to drive people away from public housing and on to the streets, to undermine our public housing stock. We\u2019ve seen how the Government, as well, is building less public housing. We\u2019ve seen how the Government is investing less in the very few supports that still exist for homeless people and yet is completely happy to drive people away from their homes and on to the streets without them creating a lifeline.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EIt would have been fair if the Government had said, \u201CWe\u2019re making changes to how people who have boarders can access the accommodation supplement and the income-related subsidy.\u201D, if they had introduced an alternative, but there is none. That means that on average this Government is leaving those families paying an extra $100 to $130-plus, on average, each week. In fact, if you have three boarders, the difference now will be over $200.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve got to remember the history of why we had a bit of reprieve for people who had at least two boarders in their home. That is because historically, over 30 years ago, it was acknowledged that because of the neoliberal reforms of the 1980s that meant that public housing tenants could be left paying market rent, that we needed to support people like sole parents who often were living in public housing without other people with them, therefore paying additional costs and without the support systems. This is why we had that reprieve for people with one to two boarders. It was to support them. The rug has been pulled out from under them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EAll for what? To give more money to the tobacco industry, to the fossil fuel industry, to the mining industry. Shame on this Government for pushing through these changes and for the complete inability to address the harms that this bill will create. Not a single one of them has talked about the communities who this bill will be affecting. They\u2019ve been so busy posting on Instagram about their performative work because for many of them\u2014particularly the list MPs from the Government side\u2014their one job is to heckle. Their one job is to create speeches made by ChatGPT instead of engaging with the communities that they are harming. I think our communities deserve far better than this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThis bill\u2014as I\u2019ve spoken to\u2014will create negative material impacts on people and the front line. They don\u2019t even seem to care about the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) staffers who will now be in charge of administering this bill. They don\u2019t seem to care about the MSD staffers, because the advice from MSD themselves talked about how this bill will increase friction at the MSD offices. It could literally put MSD staffers at risk because of that increased friction. They do all this performative outrage when there\u2019s a lockdown at the MSD offices about how much they care for the safety of MSD staffers, but then they\u2019re quite happy to rush through pieces of legislation that literally increase friction at the MSD offices. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI wish all the outrage and heckles on the other side would be about the poverty that this bill is creating, but it is an outrage driven by the fact that they seem to be offended by the fact that this bill is increasing poverty. I wish they were outraged about poverty. I wish they were outraged about inequality. I wish they were outraged about the cost of living crisis. Instead, all we get is performative outrage. When it comes to the communities that they\u2019re harming, they\u2019ve turned their faces back away from the streets and on to this echo chamber and instead they would rather create imaginary characters in their head like beneficiaries\u2014as Nicola Willis has described\u2014playing PlayStation all day when she has not taken her time to, for example, meet the people on the benefit who have been negatively affected by this Government\u2019s actions, including the bill in front of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWe could have heard from boarders, from people who have boarders, from low-income public housing tenants in the select committee stage period, but instead they decided to introduce this bill under urgency, even though they knew that they were going to do this more than a year ago. They decided to do this more than a year ago, and yet they didn\u2019t honour the democratic process of actually putting this bill through adequate scrutiny, which shows that this Government doesn\u2019t want to face the truth of thousands of people in public housing and unaffordable rentals telling them to their faces about how they will be left worse off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThey are literally scared of facing the communities that they\u2019re harming. They\u2019re scared of being told that they\u2019re leaving people homeless. They\u2019re scared of being told that they\u2019re leaving people in debt. They\u2019re scared of being told that they\u2019re increasing hardship. They\u2019re scared of telling the single people on the supported living payment that they are going to be facing additional barriers to simply keep a roof over their heads. They\u2019re scared of the scrutiny they could have faced on this bill, so they would rather push it under urgency because this is a Government scared of owning up to the voters that they have chosen to harm, that they have chosen to literally push to the streets. All for what? For their wealthy mates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWe deserve a Government that taxes the wealthy few and funds adequate public services so that we can have public housing for all, free early childhood education, free dental, and the things that our communities need to thrive. We will make sure this is a one-term Government so that they can\u2019t continue with this harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec0baa85e73340ffa4aff1909c0eafef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec0baa85e73340ffa4aff1909c0eafef\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The member Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March, in his concluding remarks, said that we will be leaving people in debt. But if you listen to that, they will be piling debt on the whole nation\u2014each and every individual, not some people that he thinks we will be leaving in debt, because this bill is not leaving anybody in debt. This bill is not leaving anybody in debt, and we want to see that our nation is not piling more and more debt for each and every individual. That\u2019s why we are responsible towards each and every dollar that we spend.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EI want to make it very, very clear that there was opportunity available to members of the Opposition in the committee of the whole House, but it was quite unfortunate to see that so much House time was taken and so many of their amendments were deemed out of order. There was that opportunity for them to put amendments through if they wanted to, but they didn\u2019t know what they wanted to change in this legislation. That was very clear last night in the committee of the whole House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ENow, we know that this bill is to fix the double subsidy issue that has been spotted, and we want to see that everybody gets a fair deal. We also know that not everybody in a State house can have a boarder because it depends on the size of the house; it depends on their own needs. So this bill is also going to bring fairness to everybody in the State houses as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ETo stand up and justify that it\u2019s OK for people to receive a subsidy twice for the same accommodation? I don\u2019t know how they justify that, because these people\u2014those who are in State houses, those who are receiving the accommodation supplement or receiving a benefit\u2014I\u2019m sure that they are in that state only for a little while because they are working hard as well to get out of that state, to get back into employment, to earn enough so that they are independent. Because they have been through those phases, they realise the importance of each and every dollar that the Government spends. I\u2019m sure these people also will appreciate this legislation going through, making sure that each and every boarder\u2019s money that comes to the State house is taken into consideration. It\u2019s going to be a very fair deal because it is going to take into consideration each and every boarder at the same level.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EAnother thing which this bill does is it clarifies the difference between boarder and renter. It\u2019s a very thought through legislation. The ACT Party supports this legislation. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u002266ee759610c04cfbbc8380484d845edb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266ee759610c04cfbbc8380484d845edb\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to stand on behalf of New Zealand First in support of the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill. I\u2019d just like to acknowledge the Hon Louise Upston, the Minister for Social Development and Employment, who has brought this piece of legislation to the House because she wants to achieve a sustainable welfare system to enable us to continue assisting those in need. This piece of legislation ensures there is fairness across the whole housing allowance space, ensuring greater fairness in regards to those accessing housing support. Duplication of housing allowance\u2014well, this will eliminate that; two people in the same house claiming the accommodation supplement. We need to ensure there\u2019s fairness. Taxpayers fund all housing support. So this will ensure some fairness through that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EJust noting the Green member Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March, who just resumed his seat, accused the Government of performative outrage. Well, I think that he needs to look in the mirror\u2014faux outrage, absolutely. I commend this bill to House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u00222092a051ec054869b63ccd098cd2c50f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222092a051ec054869b63ccd098cd2c50f\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E M\u014Drena e te P\u012Bka. M\u014Drena e te katoa. I te tuatahi, e mihi atu ki t\u014D t\u0101tou nei wh\u0101nau kei T\u016Brangawaewae Marae. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E[Good morning, Mr Speaker. Good morning to everyone. In the first instance, I acknowledge our family that are on T\u016Brangawaewae Marae.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EToday, 30 years ago, there was a signing at T\u016Brangawaewae. There\u2019s a beautiful photo of Te Atairangikaahu, Mr Bolger, and others celebrating. He kaupapa nui t\u0113n\u0101 [That\u2019s an important endeavour].\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EI start my contribution today with that in mind, because here we are, today, fighting about\u2014or listening to the Government\u2019s stand to maintain poverty, and in fact, let\u2019s put more belts and braces around it so we keep it exactly the comfortable way in which we want it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EI recognised last night in some of the speeches, and even again today, not a single piece of real intelligence, understanding, and appreciation of how this affects M\u0101ori children, M\u0101ori hap\u016B and iwi\u2014not sincerely, and not really. When the Minister for Social Development and Employment talked about this \u201Cagnostic\u201D\u2014well, she didn\u2019t talk about the concept; she used the word. The danger about such words is, first of all, this then imposes that religious thinking, and I\u2019m not quite sure. She didn\u2019t explain what she meant in the context, except when you say those sorts of things, what you\u2019re saying is that if you are agnostic, anything goes; the opposite is true, then anything goes, and if \u201Canything goes\u201D is based on very a fundamental, racist way of thinking, living, and being comfortable, then this is the kind of rubbish that you end up with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EBut I do want to congratulate the Government for their persistence in showing complete disregard and disinterest\u2014and this word, \u201Cdisdain\u201D. Because if you don\u2019t ask wh\u0101nau\u2014well, I mean, what are you scared of? Are you scared that you might have to change your mind, that you might be convinced that wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, iwi communities know, understand, and have their reality and are able to share it? Why wouldn\u2019t you open this process up and do that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThe only thing I\u2019m left with, really, is that you care not. Though you might write and talk about it as if you do, but it is a complete fake\u2014it is a complete fake. But here\u2019s the other, probably, perverse, but good thing: everybody can see you. Everybody can feel you. So keep going, because, in the next round, you will be gone and we will be here\u2014yeah, get yourself ready for that. [Interruption] OK, bark up, boys. Bark up, boys\u2014keep going, we\u2019re used to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EI did hear also last night this whole thing about double-dipping. Again, it\u2019s such an old and false perspective because double-dipping was used 20, 30, 40 years ago today still assumes that there\u2019s enough\u2014\u201CThere\u2019s enough, so don\u2019t you dare double-dip, you and your family of seven kids. You\u2019re just getting through, so how dare you double-dip?\u201D You can\u2019t double-dip, actually, if you\u2019ve got sweet not-a-lot to work on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ESo what you then end up doing is having to work and, at times, absolutely manipulate so you get even the crumbs. So what I hear often and disappointingly\u2014but not surprisingly\u2014is a huge ignorance and misunderstanding. But when you have an already always listening about brown people, when you have an already always listening about \u201Clazy M\u0101ori brown people that just can\u2019t get up and get off the couch\u201D, you are fed a terrible, terrible lie. And when you are comfortable in that kind of understanding, you will end up with this kind of rubbish that has got\u2014and let me tell you: there are many a M\u0101ori, iwi, marae, hap\u016B that have got their plans, they\u2019ve got their strategy, they\u2019ve got their Wh\u0101nau Ora plans. But what do you think? You think you know better. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EWell, shame on you. You don\u2019t know better today and you won\u2019t know, and I suggest that M\u0101ori m\u0101, M\u0101ori m\u0101, go back to your marae. Hoki koe ki t\u014D marae, me whakarongo ki \u014D koutou wh\u0101nau i ia marae, ia hap\u016B. [You should listen to your families on each marae, each hap\u016B.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EM\u0113n\u0101\u2014if\u2014you were to do that, you would be better off. Just in the first instance, you would be better off\u2014you would be informed. Don\u2019t depend on the M\u0101ori sitting next to you to think that\u2019s enough. Do your own work. Kia ora t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022 data-id=\u0022e880f13881fe477fb250c482e54a14d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e880f13881fe477fb250c482e54a14d9\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of the Green Party in opposition to this bill. This bill is about greed. This bill is about stealing from children, from disabled people, and from our elderly\u2014tax-paying New Zealanders. While the changes proposed were described by the Minister for Social Development and Employment as narrow, and they may appear minor or technical, the consequences are serious. What\u2019s being packaged here as an adjustment to housing support policy is a targeted cut to people on the lowest incomes, people already struggling to stay housed and fed in Aotearoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EThis legislation reverses a longstanding and sensible approach taken by the Ministry of Social Development (MSD). For over 30 years, MSD has excluded income from one or two boarders when determining eligibility for the accommodation supplement or income-related rent. That approach has helped countless households make ends meet. It has encouraged people to share their homes, ease the living costs, and even reduce the pressure on public housing. But now this bill proposes to treat those boarder contributions as income, resulting in reduced support for those who host even just one or two boarders. The outcome? Less housing assistance for people who are simply trying to manage in an economy where the cost of living is skyrocketing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s not forget who we are talking about. These people are doing everything they can to stay afloat. It is hard being poor: people with no safety margin, rent, power, groceries\u2014these costs are going up, and this bill chooses to take even more away from those already falling behind. This is not about preventing abuse of the system; it\u2019s about penalising those who open up spare rooms, build community, make ends meet, and support each other. It\u2019s about clawing back entitlements from people living below the poverty line. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EIn the evidence which we got, the advice we got from MSD, it showed us the people who are going to be the most disproportionately impacted: M\u0101ori, Pacific people, our kaum\u0101tua, disabled people, young people. It was really telling, the engagement from the Government members, when they got engaged, when they only felt personally offended. Well, I feel offended for the disabled people, for the young people, for Pacific people, for M\u0101ori people, and for our kaum\u0101tua\u2014people who we should be helping to have everything that they need to live a thriving life. That\u2019s something that we can have in this country. We have enough wealth. We are a country of abundance. But this Government is choosing to choose greed and cruelty over the country that we could be, one that cares for people, one that cares for our environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EIn the Green Party, we believe in supporting people, not punishing them. We believe in a welfare system that enables people to live with dignity, not one that punishes them for finding ways to manage within a broken system. If this Government is genuinely interested in fairness and efficient housing policy, it should begin by lifting support levels that reflect real living costs, not by cutting assistance to the very people this support is meant to help, like children. I hope that the Government members have read their own child poverty report because it is grim, and this is going to affect children. It is going to push more children into poverty and it is just not OK. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EWe cannot support this bill. It punishes people for sharing their homes. We urge all members of this House to reject this harmful and short-sighted bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb4b85192a604e35b5c77b863030d55e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb4b85192a604e35b5c77b863030d55e\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I rise to speak on this. We\u2019ve heard a lot of hyperbole and, frankly, nonsense from those champagne socialists on the other side of the House. What is this bill about? It\u2019s actually about the Government paying twice for one room in a house. That\u2019s, effectively, what it\u2019s about. And that\u2019s for boarders. It doesn\u2019t do the same for renters. This Government takes taxpayers\u2019 money seriously. We take the responsibility to spend that money wisely. We want to help people in difficult circumstances. We want to give them a hand up; we don\u2019t want to give them a handout. We don\u2019t want people stuck in a cycle of poverty for their entire lives, so we want to help those people. We are not going to triple the debt like the last Government did. We\u2019re going to spend it wisely. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022c289f40b7ed54be4935165b6635948ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c289f40b7ed54be4935165b6635948ed\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. When I was going to law school, I\u2019d come back from overseas and I went to live in Hamilton because I was at Waikato law school and I lived in a garage of a woman who was a solo mother. She had two kids, she was working, and I don\u2019t know whether she actually had an accommodation supplement, but if she had had one, under the law as it was then, she would\u2019ve been able to have me there as a boarder and not declare it and it would have given her a little bit more money. I got something out of it: I lived in the garage. [Interruption] And, actually, for Joseph Mooney on the other side, that woman today wouldn\u2019t need anyone to be double-dipping to miss out on what she got back then, if that was the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThe woman who does that now, she\u2019s a caregiver; and she\u2019s earning minimum wage. This Government decided not to give her the raise it should have given her, which would have kept pace with inflation this year. That was the priority of this Government: it didn\u2019t give her the minimum wage. It also took away her pay equity claim\u2014that\u2019s what it did this year. In addition to that, it said, \u201COh, you\u2019re getting an accommodation supplement. You\u2019re working. You\u2019re not able to make ends meet because the wages are so low, but we\u2019re going to take that off you to the extent of $98 a week this year when things are this bad, when cheese costs this much, when butter costs $7, $8, sometimes $11 in the shops for butter.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c1f2aeea03b4ff996cb438c99075c31\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Cut to Costco! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bd252e81a1948c893542d80a89226f8\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: And I\u2019m told by the other side, who apparently are connected with human beings, \u201CCostco\u201D. That\u2019s what they scream out: \u201CCostco\u201D\u2014that\u2019s what they scream out. I would like the Government to take this seriously. It is not a case of some glib comment across the room.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EToday, we have a debate about taking $98 off someone like the woman I\u2019ve described. There will be thousands of women I\u2019ve described across this country who are in this situation and it is time to take this seriously. It is not a case of screaming out \u201CCostco\u201D, because that is the kind of judgment that has been going on underneath the surface of this Government for a long time. It is always the person\u2019s fault who\u2019s in that situation. I have described to you today a woman who was very real to me. She was a lovely woman. She had instant coffee, she had a microwave, she had a beautiful little puppy dog. All those things are the actual hallmarks of working-class New Zealand\u2014good, solid working-class New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EToday, we decided that we were going to take off good, solid working New Zealand solo mothers what even in the 1990s they didn\u2019t do. They decided that was a bridge too far, but it isn\u2019t for this Government. Because what\u2019s happened in between is the gap between rich and poor is so extreme that many people on the other side of this House want to talk about tall poppies. They don\u2019t want to talk about battling New Zealand, who are getting on with it and what do they get? A kick in the guts from this Government today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI hope all the controversy about dragging this bill out and trying to get the most we can out of this situation, the fight that the Opposition put up, I hope it\u2019s seen for what it is. It\u2019s a fight for the working class of this country, who have had a really rough time. This Government promised it was going to help them in a cost of living crisis; instead, it takes $98 off women like that. It takes it off them every week. It makes it harder for them to live and then it blames them and tells them they can go to Costco. That\u2019s what this Government said to people today. And their sniggering continues on the other side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWe are here for those people\u2014we are here. We are not going to say that it is wrong to have a boarder in your house\u2014we wouldn\u2019t do it to ourselves and we\u2019re not going to do it to the rest of New Zealand. That is not the way forward to a decent New Zealand. It is time that we start to see how alienating it is for people. We have people whom a report into this bill calls marginalised. We have people who are really harmed here by this legislation, and we need to take it seriously and we needed to hear from them. Frankly, we needed to hear from those very people because it is our obligation to listen to them before we make stupid laws, and this is a very stupid law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThis law is not going to achieve anything but further pain for people, because, as the report points out, what most people will do in that situation is they\u2019ll just stop having boarders. They won\u2019t be able to afford to have a boarder. Think about the discussion we had in the committee of the whole House stage about the 62 percent that is going to be taken off every boarder situation. When it was suggested by me that some people\u2014bless their cotton socks\u2014might have somebody live with them for other reasons than money and they might say, \u201CLook, you can live here for $50 a week.\u201D, they still lose 62\u00A0percent of that because, apparently, the Minister for Social Development and Employment says she\u2019s agnostic, which apparently means heartless, unthinking, and, basically, stupid. It\u2019s not a very good piece of law. It\u2019s a stupid law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e853fe50fa6446caf36659f6eac9bf8\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I refer you to Speaker\u2019s ruling 45/2, which says, \u201CMembers should address each other in a courteous way, and references to the mental prowess, or lack thereof, of a particular member are inappropriate\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce2f219191ad40ee9923e4523171be41\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: Point taken\u2014point taken, Madam Speaker. And it\u2019s not taken\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bab94792cc44460fb9392071049d25d2\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order. She should withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bb5878131694d12bf15c96180112139\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I understand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221102f6b7e88748d6af48628072e4473a\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220895a08d84494c5594391a4d2876790b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I understand. It is actually OK to call a policy stupid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b5875be08a54d19aa1515195406e2d0\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: And that\u2019s what I was trying to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022147a8f3578e44fa59e31614166e8ef3f\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, that was in reference to a member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e5dd7a04ff5488d9063f4e9f76053e2\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: I want to make sure that I am clear: I think that this is a stupid policy. I think the mentality that says, when asked a question that is a very valid question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225390864a94f440c9aaf5204da5be43cf\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Sorry, Madam Speaker. The member should withdraw and apologise for her reference to the Minister, which was very clear. Then she can criticise the policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c2db19fa6d44882a6598e5be0077f68\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acccbb9ba7724aecbadc389ddefea348\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, I\u2019ll make it absolutely clear: I am talking about the policy and I\u2019m talking about the thinking that gets to the policy and the lack of debate. Let\u2019s just extrapolate. The thinking isn\u2019t just of the Minister; the thinking is of the Government\u2014let\u2019s just be very clear. Now, I think people on the other side of the House know that I do not tend to attack people personally and I\u2019m not doing that here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f028e007371408aaf3e8c579288f194\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: You were. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276ffa9c609c54ad9ad3a1b305d5d4875\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: I do not. And what I am talking about\u2014pardon? Sorry, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d428dc5b842447dda75896058f425f9d\u0022\u003ERachel Boyack\u003C/span\u003E: Keep going\u2014keep going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225566423db0554f92a9fe014944caffe3\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. What I am talking about is a way of thinking which the Government is guilty of. Because, when I put a question about\u2014[Interruption] I am getting a lot of heckling, Madam Speaker, and I\u2019m finding it really hard to give my speech because there is a constant barrage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d84b801a0aea49c2b2689413c3c2d199\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. I apologise to the member; however, this is getting out of hand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b074a6f06eb246ddaddd46d7f5fa5a38\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: It is getting out of hand. I\u2019ve only just resumed the Chair and I can see that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db387926b9574e7496ff3ce62c6a5633\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: I know. This is in no way your fault, Madam Speaker, but this has been building for quite some time. Presiding officers throughout the morning have warned both sides to keep it down a notch and, frankly, some of the comments that have been labelled towards Helen White during that contribution are very much out of order, and it\u2019s building both sides up. I think, given that we\u2019re likely to be here until midnight tonight, some clear expectations set out to the House would be useful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022020369e9b33c4508a08a5599ac34804c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Excellent. Point noted, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbd00a7c359d491185b85883ba14a228\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I want to come back to the injustice of not bothering to think about the people who will be caught up in this situation and hurt by it. I have given an example to the House: somebody is charging somebody $50 to live in their house\u2014they\u2019re charging them $50. Under this law that we passed today, 62 percent of it goes straight out the door\u2014it goes straight out the door, and yet it\u2019s probably costing them double that in terms of food and electricity, etc. When I have put that matter to the Minister, I was met with complete disinterest. I was told that the policy is agnostic. Well, our job is not to be agnostic. Yes, we have systems to run. Yes, there are hard calls to make. But our job is to listen to our communities and to reflect that in decent, humane policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo when a Minister refuses to listen to those things and change them, when we are adopting policies that do not work for ordinary New Zealanders and, in fact, depress them, take them down, make it harder for them to move through into a place of independence\u2014when we do that, we do real harm, and we are responsible for that harm. Today, we put something through which hurts a lot of people that could\u2019ve been made better. It could\u2019ve been made better by a bit of time in a select committee, listening to the people who are impacted; listening to all voices. We could have got it right. But, instead, we\u2019re putting through a law that probably won\u2019t work, because people will simply no longer have boarders because they cannot afford the risk and it is not worth it to them\u2014when who were they hurting?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI absolutely, categorically, totally reject the idea that this is double-dipping. Anyone who gets a subsidy from the Government gets it because they need it. The fact that two subsidies end up in the same household, that is not double-dipping. Double-dipping\u2014as has been pointed out earlier\u2014is when you do something like make sure that landlords have interest deductibility, but don\u2019t tax them when it comes to the profit that they make out of a rental property. That\u2019s double-dipping because you\u2019re giving them two bites at it. You\u2019re letting them have their cake and eat it too. In this situation, there\u2019s no double-dipping. We just have two people who deserve our support who are getting it. But not today. It\u2019s over for them. Shame on this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022 data-id=\u0022527b1b4e68d4409e8b9d13830d938b0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022527b1b4e68d4409e8b9d13830d938b0e\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E The bill is very straightforward. It addresses the situation where a person who receives boarder payments themselves apply for the accommodation supplement. They are to be assessed for their eligibility and for the rate of accommodation supplement they are to receive. What this bill doesn\u2019t do is mislead the public, and what this bill doesn\u2019t do is encourage and further entrench dependency. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u00227c841b001e2b45398fe12163d36b944b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c841b001e2b45398fe12163d36b944b\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is a mean-spirited bill. The Paulo Garcia, member opposite, says it doesn\u2019t entrench\u2014something. What it does entrench is poverty and inequity. It is mean-spirited because it penalises people who are already doing it tough for taking on boarders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ESome members opposite in their contributions have said this is about fairness and about fixing an anomaly in the legislation. It\u2019s not. This policy of disregarding contributions received from one or two boarders when calculating someone\u2019s entitlement for housing subsidies and assistance has been in place since 1992 for a reason. It was designed to be an incentive for people to take in boarders, so it\u2019s not something that people were doing incorrectly or wrongly. It was actually designed to support people to take on boarders to ensure that other people had a home and that the money they were paid would then offset the increase in costs to the person who was taking on those boarders. So let\u2019s not dress this up as something that is fair, which is what members opposite are doing. It is unfair. It is penalising people for doing something that ultimately is good\u2014because there is a difference between renters and boarders, and that is actually acknowledged by other Government agencies, so perhaps members opposite should look at that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe income that comes from someone who rents is treated very differently already under the law from people who contribute as boarders because that is not just about renting a space; it\u2019s about offsetting the increased costs that the person who rents out or shares their space will incur from that. So this is not an anomaly that needs to be fixed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThis will lead to an increase in homelessness. Let\u2019s not pretend about that. Not one member opposite has mentioned the fact that this will make things harder for a number of groups of people. That is not an opinion; that is in the official analysis of this bill. Disabled people, for example, have limited choice when it comes to accessible housing. Many disabled people have limited choice because their caregivers live with them as boarders. These are the very people that this bill and this Government are punching down on further, so let\u2019s be very clear about that. That is in the politically neutral analysis of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EWhat is this, ultimately? There\u2019s a line in that analysis that says this policy change was a Budget 2024 cost-saving initiative. That\u2019s ultimately what it is. So it\u2019s clawing back $150 million from people who can least afford it because of the decisions that this Government has made in successive Budgets. That\u2019s what this bill is about. It\u2019s in keeping with what they\u2019ve done so far, which is taking money away from underpaid women to balance their Budget, to make up for their decisions to subsidise landlords and tobacco companies, to pay for their tax cuts that they promised on their campaign when they were campaigning to reduce the cost of living\u2014which they have failed to do. It is to subsidise offshore oil and gas giants, as we\u2019ve seen through Budget 2025. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that has failed on their promises that they campaigned for. What are they doing instead? They are clawing back money from the people who can least afford it, whether that\u2019s underpaid women or, in this case, all of the groups: M\u0101ori, Pacific, young people, old people, disabled people, those who are already struggling, those who are being given an incentive to take on boarders to make ends meet. Those are the people who will be impacted negatively as a result of this bill, and all we\u2019ve heard from the other side is arrogance, frankly, and it\u2019s been pretty disgusting. We\u2019ve seen the smirks; we\u2019ve heard the laughs coming across the House from those members. They don\u2019t seem to care. Not one person has acknowledged how much harder this bill is going to make life for those who are already struggling with the cost of living.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EBut keep going because there\u2019s a pattern and everyone can see what this Government is ultimately doing: fail on your promises and then take it from those who are already doing it tough. For all of those reasons, and the reasons that this side of the House has clearly laid out, as this bill has been rushed through all stages under urgency, we do not commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022 data-id=\u00228f6387db140e469e9249e1aae64255d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f6387db140e469e9249e1aae64255d4\u0022\u003EDr HAMISH CAMPBELL (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I rise in support of this bill. It\u2019s a necessary change. Its purpose is to ensure fairness and to prevent the double-subsidisation of housing costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003EWe have heard about penalising renters; let\u2019s talk about that. Under the last Government, there was an increase on average of $180 a week in rent. If we look across the country, that is $5.3 billion that they took out of the pockets of renters. That is a fact. Under this Government, we\u2019ve seen an increase in 40 percent for listings of rental properties, according to TradeMe data. We have seen the highest level as a percentage of first-home buyers for decades. That is what this Government is doing: getting the finances of this country under control. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003EWe don\u2019t suggest titles of bills with \u201Cmoolah\u201D in them; we take this seriously. We don\u2019t trifle with the House like the Opposition does. Therefore, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u002277d5642b01924792b8c0783cd6dac42e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277d5642b01924792b8c0783cd6dac42e\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s the first opportunity I\u2019ve had to take a call on this bill and I want to talk to some of the impacts it\u2019s going to have on my community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThe first comment I want to make is that this bill is a mean-spirited little bill that\u2019s been snuck through the House under the cover of darkness during urgency. It hasn\u2019t had the opportunity to go to select committee, which means that people who are actually affected by this bill haven\u2019t had an opportunity to come to the Parliament to put their views to MPs to ensure that a bill like this actually is fair. Because it\u2019s not fair\u2014it\u2019s not a fair bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EWhen I was doing my reading of the bill prior to putting my notes together, I did take a look at the explanatory note. I think it\u2019s worth noting to the members over the other side of the House that this policy was actually introduced in 1992. Who was in Government in 1992? The National Party. And here in the bill, it even reads\u2014I\u2019m just going to read it out\u2014\u201CIt was intended to encourage better utilisation of State housing (ie, occupation of empty rooms) and encourage beneficiary [houses], particularly sole parent beneficiaries living in larger State houses, to take on a boarder, or boarders, to offset some of their costs.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EIn the context of the nation\u2019s housing crisis, it\u2019s important that we actually look at what will be the unintended consequences of a bill like this. What it will lead to is higher costs for those who have a boarder or people not taking a boarder on in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fff289e208b7466f99405d0690e101c9\u0022\u003EDr Hamish Campbell\u003C/span\u003E: Unintended consequences\u2014cumulative effect of 25 percent inflation under your Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297dd8aa26e3042a683bd13d9cdb39b9f\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: At the moment, the situation we\u2019re facing\u2014I mean, I just want to note, Mr Campbell, you did have an opportunity to take a 10-minute call; it was less than a minute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ac4015fa3fe430dbb8d690910d3183f\u0022\u003EDr Hamish Campbell\u003C/span\u003E: No, I didn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d5b91ad384d41ac859c6147478c5a58\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, you did. You had an opportunity to speak for 10 minutes. [Interruption] You\u2019ve obviously got something to say\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022125ab00af0104701ae5d66280cea2072\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! We don\u2019t want conversation across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227aef4e578e340b1b011d110e271d880\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: I know, but he\u2019s heckling me, so I\u2019m just responding. But he\u2019s obviously got something to say. It is within the rules to respond to a heckler. He took about a minute; he had nine minutes where he could have said all this, that he\u2019s, you know\u2014so\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da53ca0121ef4264aea3e62beedbede3\u0022\u003EDr Hamish Campbell\u003C/span\u003E: It was a split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7b561f2443c42cb8933bbd800d10cca\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, it was a five-minute call. OK, it was a split call. So you took one minute of your five minutes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9630851e9f4478e9392cee450712b37\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022715b86d194c4469886280009a68823f1\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise for getting my timings wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f3044c6afe249a393c4e5a9286e9d80\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Joseph Mooney.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe337b9a9b934486892f746bfef3e0c1\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: No, she just addressed it. She got her timings wrong. It was five minutes; not 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b426ef1fc8b44b91baeb509a20bc049a\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: Basically what I was saying was that he had four minutes that he didn\u2019t use, but instead he\u2019s decided he\u2019s just going to shout at me. If that\u2019s just how you want to behave in the House, it\u2019s up to you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245c3f6cd6f32427eadc2ff1c60302ae9\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Tell us about the Nelson Hospital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267ddddf007434234b6e24e76932f0329\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: Just coming back to the bill\u2014oh, I will tell you about Nelson Hospital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266a92d8241b845449efaa5e9b012465c\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, great announcement!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d92c3aa4553741f69cdf9bcba707b037\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: Fewer beds. Fewer beds. Fewer beds. We\u2019ll run out of beds in about five or six years and we\u2019re going to have to come back and build the last building. You cancelled the last building that Nelson needs. It\u2019s a disgrace. So don\u2019t believe the spin that your Ministers have given you, because they\u2019re wrong. It\u2019s a disgrace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1fa45c47684435595a768b7cf53ceaf\u0022\u003EHon Matt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Whoever the mayor is, he\u2019s happy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1bf4107265e4c7daa6fc9d3bf22a52a\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, look, the mayor had 30 years to get their hospital built and he didn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EAnyway, I\u2019ll come back to this bill, which is really important for Nelson because we have a policy in Nelson set up by the wonderful people at Nelson Women\u2019s Centre called HomeShare for Her, which runs across the Nelson-Tasman region. HomeShare for Her. What it does is it matches a woman\u2014normally an older woman who is living in their own home or renting a home and often it\u2019s a larger property\u2014and to take on a boarder. One of the things that we find in Nelson is we do have a growing and ageing population, which is why we need more beds than what National have promised. One of the things is that women are often living in their own homes that might have an extra two or three bedrooms. They want to stay living in their own homes for safety, to help reduce costs, for companionship. What HomeShare for Her has done is it allows a matching process between those women, and then women who are single, who might be working, studying, or not able to afford their own home. So it allows\u2014you know, coming back to the purpose of the original policy\u2014greater utilisation of that home. It\u2019s a great scheme and it\u2019s allowed matching between these women.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EWhat this policy will do for any of those women who are receiving the accommodation supplement because they might still be paying their mortgage and be on superannuation or be living in a rental, that\u2019s going to increase the cost for those women. So it actually has an unintended consequence and has a poor impact\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d0288069d864b33ab921c52974aab7a\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: I think it\u2019s intended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4a5a84648144f2885a73f51e8482e20\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014on those. What was that, sorry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022737ae8fa35fa495da43504014c904efc\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: I think it\u2019s intended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227c7c1b48a424343abbaf7853e916020\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I think it\u2019s intentional too. And\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275db418253ca43faaa78b08b77eac7ca\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just remind the member again not to engage across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6176e9936e543e09558c66dffef4752\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, I understood under the Standing Orders that you can respond to heckles. I think that was all right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EBut one of the issues in Nelson as well as we have seen an increase in our homelessness and we\u2019ve seen through the ending of some of our emergency accommodation provision, a growing number of people living on the streets. We\u2019ve also seen, as part of that, unfortunately, a growing number of women living on the streets. One of the things around how women present through homelessness is it\u2019s often a bit different to how men present. Often, women will end up sleeping rough on someone\u2019s couch, in a garage, potentially with children. They\u2019re not necessarily sleeping on the street, but the homelessness is still there and present.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s one of the things I love about this HomeShare for Her policy that was set up by this group of women was: that it both served the older women who were wanting to get greater utilisation of their home, and then it also supported those women who were on a low income, unable to find a home. What this bill is going to do is add costs to those people. It\u2019s going to add costs to those women and it\u2019s potentially going to disincentivise the number of people living in those homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThe other thing that we face in Nelson which is really specific to this bill is we do have a lot of State houses that do have three to four bedrooms, where we have a really high need for one- and two-bedroom properties in Nelson\u2014and that\u2019s shown on the Housing Register. We had begun building those one- and two-bedroom properties. We had got quite a few built, including the one recently finished on Waimea Road which has 29 one-bedroom units in it, which is fantastic\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EBut some of those future properties have been cancelled\u2014those builds. There was one in the inner city that was going to build another 30 or so one-bedroom homes that would have served particularly our older population, our disabled population, very, very well. That build has been cancelled under this Government and so we\u2019re seeing the latest release of information from the Nelson Tasman Housing Trust saw the highest ever housing need from people who are in that space where they might not qualify to go on to the Housing Register, but they do have a housing need in terms of being on a low income. So they\u2019ve seen a real spike in numbers, unfortunately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EWhen you have a place like Nelson, which is one of the most unaffordable regions in the country after Queenstown, when you compare income against rent and a real squeeze on housing\u2014because we do have a growing number of people choosing to retire into Nelson\u2014what we see is a real lack of access to housing. It is a real issue in Nelson, it has been for some time. The option to have people boarding is a really, really good solution, and it happens a lot in my community. So my biggest concern here is that we\u2019re going to be penalising people on low incomes who have looked to say, \u201CI\u2019m going to take on a boarder.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThe other area where it can impact is those who are taking on students\u2014they may have a student come to study at Nelson Marlborough Institute of Technology, for example\u2014take on a boarder because they might be an elderly person who\u2019s looking to supplement the income on their rental property. Making those kinds of decisions is going to become less attractive to those people, and so it\u2019s going to limit the amount of housing supply we have, because in a place like Nelson, we need to look at every single opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThere is going to be, if you look at social housing, around 6,200 households across the country have boarders. Those people will have to find around $132 more each week towards their income-related rent. That\u2019s a significant amount of money for people at a time when, alongside the housing crisis, you actually have a cost of living crisis. The 8,200 households who receive the accommodation supplement are going to be affected, and 7,000 of those people will have a reduction in support from the Ministry of Social Development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThis bill should have gone to select committee. To pass it like this when it had actually been put in place during the Budget in 2024 just shows a Government couldn\u2019t actually line its ducks up properly to have actually got a bill into the House at some point last year and put it through to select committee for those people who are affected, so that the Government members, who have been shouting at everyone but not taking lengthy calls\u2014so they\u2019re choosing to shout instead of listen\u2014could actually hear the real impact of this bill. I do not commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022 data-id=\u00222d808977745c401daa124a619d67079a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d808977745c401daa124a619d67079a\u0022\u003EGREG FLEMING (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E N\u014Dku te maringa nui ki te t\u016B hei tautoko i t\u0113nei pire ki te Whare. Kei te mutunga o t\u0113nei k\u014Drero poto ka p\u014Dti t\u0101tou i t\u0113nei pire, \u0101, n\u0101 t\u014Dku whakapono i te whakaaro nui o te nuinga o ng\u0101 mema o t\u0113nei Whare, ka whakamanatia t\u0113nei pire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003E[It is my great fortune to stand in support of this bill in the House. Upon the conclusion of this short speech, we will vote on this bill, and as I have faith in the wisdom of the majority of the members of this House, this bill will be enacted.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be0b52951a384b92b9290c4976b114ad\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: N\u0101 te aha? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E[Because of what?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddf2c9de44f1480ea9c31bb874738907\u0022\u003EGREG FLEMING\u003C/span\u003E: He pire pai, he pire whakaaro nui, he pire atawhai. N\u0101 reira kaua e roa ake t\u0101ku whakat\u0101tari o t\u0113nei k\u014Drero, o t\u0113nei p\u014Dti. Ka t\u016Btohu atu au i t\u0113nei pire ki te Whare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003E[It is a good bill, it is a wise bill, it is a caring bill. Therefore, I will not prolong my analysis of this debate and of this vote. I commend this bill to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000326\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220c028ad5ae524996bb0963dab98ab347\u0022\u003ESocial Security (Mandatory Reviews) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002218cc08e4dc8941deac8c37e49e5b08a8\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1a25f8f15404ca290e20749488ec984\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1a25f8f15404ca290e20749488ec984\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Social Security (Mandatory Reviews) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238f8a23a6df244f4952bd1ad83a3f049\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on Parliament\u2019s website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da0bcad1cdc04e37a225fb847e1ce676\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Social Security (Mandatory Reviews) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285e339e4c5c446c1aac5dd685a58cac6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that\u2014sorry. After you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df817182062b457c8fe1acf4bccd8c35\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: The Social Security (Mandatory Reviews) Amendment Bill amends the Social Security Act 2018 to introduce regular reviews of specified benefits, including the accommodation supplement. The Ministry of Social Development (MSD) does not always have the most up-to-date information about clients and they therefore may not be receiving the correct assistance. To efficiently implement the boarders\u2019 contribution initiative in the legislation we\u2019ve just passed, MSD must have up-to-date information on how much clients are getting from boarders, particularly to ensure correct entitlement for the accommodation supplement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe mandatory reviews that will be introduced through this bill provide an efficient mechanism to regularly gather information about contributions from boarders and other client circumstances. MSD will be required to review specified benefits at least once a year. These reviews will confirm that clients are receiving the correct rate and are still eligible for the benefit. The specified benefits this requirement will apply to, in addition to the accommodation supplement, are the supported living payment and the disability allowance. The changes will also apply to the emergency benefit when the expiry date is beyond 52 weeks, or if there is no expiry date at all. Finally, the changes will also apply to people receiving New Zealand superannuation with a non-qualified partner. This is a grandparented assistance that will not affect the vast majority of people who receive superannuation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThese changes will mean that more clients will have to engage with the MSD regularly to keep their circumstances up to date, including information about board payments. The bill does not introduce an onerous process for clients and they will be able to choose how they respond to the review. These changes will lead to more clients being paid the right rate of benefit. This will reflect their correct entitlement and will reduce the accumulation of debt over time, which is an issue that I know members on the other side have been concerned about. Similar to the changes that I have recently introduced through the 26-week reapplications, when a client has already confirmed their circumstances are correct through another engagement, MSD will not be required to review their circumstances for the 52 weeks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThis bill will also enable MSD staff to prioritise supporting clients into work. Some aspects of the process to confirm a client\u2019s circumstances will use automated decision-making. I want to speak about the limited use of the automated decision-making. They are: firstly, notifying the client that they do need to confirm their circumstances, then continuing their benefit if a client confirms the information MSD holds is correct, or stopping the benefit if a client doesn\u2019t respond to the review before the deadline. Automated decision-making will only be used for review-related decisions that do not require the use of discretion or human judgment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThere are several final points I want to emphasise to the House. Firstly, these reviews are different from the reapplication process for jobseeker support or sole parent support. Clients will not be required to submit full reapplications for their assistance; they will simply need to confirm that the information MSD holds about them is correct. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESecondly\u2014for the avoidance of doubt\u2014medical reviews are not tied to these reviews. Clients will be confirming aspects of their life, such as contributions from boarders, income, living arrangements, and whether they have a partner or children in their care\u2014not their disability or health condition. They will not be required to seek additional medical certificates as a result of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to emphasise that this bill does not change any rules regarding eligibility for these payments. It simply creates a more efficient mechanism to apply existing rules. Many New Zealanders would be surprised that this review is not already in place, and it is critical to the successful implementation of the boarders\u2019 contribution changes. It will also contribute to a more proactive, efficient, and accurate welfare system. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00224da4b13b7b5e48fd914567f6bd4e97f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224da4b13b7b5e48fd914567f6bd4e97f7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc10af0408d648db8cda60271c4e5e74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc10af0408d648db8cda60271c4e5e74\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. Sorry about that. Again, here we have yet another attack from this Government on the poorest and most vulnerable Kiwis. It\u2019s d\u00E9j\u00E0 vu. As I said earlier, it\u2019s been a terrible week for the Government and, now, here we are on Saturday. They\u2019re hoping that most New Zealanders are not watching this, but people are aware of what\u2019s happening in terms of this kaupapa. We don\u2019t believe the cruel sanction process alongside this bill will help the welfare of any\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c9126af09504e66b925dbe351ecdfbe\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: Speak to the bill, Willie!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279a8e32f92c142c297f648adbfbe5282\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll do it again just for you, Mr Mooney. We don\u2019t believe the sanction process alongside this bill will help the welfare of anyone impacted by it, all right? So it\u2019s about\u2014you can\u2019t sort of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fed4ce69fe7644d3a854aec7b6924291\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not alongside this bill; it\u2019s separate\u2014a separate issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d540fd163eb34955b78c7b97bf74c7fa\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, no, no, it\u2019s all connected, Mr Mooney. It\u2019s all connected. You just think, \u201COh, there are just sanctions here, and nothing\u2019s connected.\u201D Everything\u2019s connected. And we\u2019ve got incredible misgivings over the sanctions process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWhat this mandatory review amendment does is speed up\u2014just for you, Mr Mooney\u2014how many times people on welfare face those harsh sanctions. See? That\u2019s the connection\u2014just for you, just for you. Look, I know it\u2019s hard for the other side to understand, but research cited in the regulatory impact statement highlights that these sanctions may increase mental and physical health problems, including substance abuse and poverty. So speeding up how many times people face those sanctions will exacerbate those social stresses\u2014something I think that this Government\u2019s incapable of comprehending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EBecause of constant Public Service cutbacks, the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) doesn\u2019t have enough staff to process these claims. We\u2019ve constantly cited this, every six months, which will require artificial intelligence automation of eligibility, which the Privacy Commission has concerns about\u2014concerns no one is listening to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIn terms of our policy, we\u2019ve seen example after example of Government policy that is bureaucratically obtuse and creates confusion and punishment. And that\u2019s, again, the problem with this. There is confusion amongst people at the coalface. They don\u2019t know where to go to. They know that MSD are concerned, but MSD don\u2019t have the capability. For example, by halving the review time for job seekers and their partners, this Government will continue along the way of threatening and bullying people and then immediately sanctioning them. This isn\u2019t welfare policy. The Government are actively making the process\u2014and here\u2019s the point: they\u2019re actively making the process of getting welfare as difficult as possible. We want a simple process, and the reality is it\u2019s difficult as possible as unemployment continues to grow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWhere are all the jobs for those who are being thrown off welfare? That\u2019s what we\u2019re asking. They\u2019re setting up job seekers to fail because they don\u2019t want to help them, I think. I think that\u2019s the problem. They don\u2019t want to help them in the first place. In terms of getting beneficiaries into work, of course we all want that, and I appreciate the Minister wants that, too. To achieve that, we must have simple policies, simple ways for our people to access their needs and to access support. That\u2019s not the case here. Benefit and jobseeker numbers have risen significantly under this Government as a result, obviously, of worsening economic conditions, and the Government has to take responsibility for the consequences of those actions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIn terms of this mandatory reviews amendment bill, we obviously oppose it because it doesn\u2019t help job seekers; it just punishes them. It\u2019s the continuation of the punitive style and process of this Government\u2014something that we will turn around when we get that opportunity back in Government. We will bring in a more embracing style, and I\u2019ll go on the record again, today, as saying that Labour totally opposes this bill. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u002203cd3bba9b5d4f1099dce0761c4a83e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203cd3bba9b5d4f1099dce0761c4a83e7\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Make no mistake, if the Minister was actually serious about improving the accuracy of the Ministry of Social Development entitlement assessments, she would be investing in the front line and supporting them adequately, rather than continuing to undermine them and pushing through more and more decisions to a computer system, where there will be less accountability should it not adequately calculate benefits. This is part of a plan to cut the lifeline for countless people so that the Government can meet their target of 50,000 less people receiving income support, not about people getting, basically, more support or getting into employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226db7ed7dee174d12a1abbe37a7b09f78\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: This guy doesn\u2019t understand what he\u2019s talking about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217520331c9ea4638a0f97cbde59a4eb7\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: Joseph Mooney says that I don\u2019t know what I\u2019m talking about, but I\u2019d really invite him\u2014because he didn\u2019t in the previous debate\u2014to actually tell us about the substance of this bill and who this is affecting the most. Last debate, he didn\u2019t talk about how the previous bill would affect people in hardship, so I welcome him to do the same. I say this because, as the Minister said\u2014and she\u2019s basically opened up for us to link those two together\u2014this bill was integral for her to meet the intent of the previous bill, which does what? Leave 14,000 people worse off, between, on average, $100 each week, to, potentially, $200 worse each week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThese so-called mandatory reviews, they are also an excuse to, basically, punish people and strip them of their benefit, particularly for those on the supported living payment, who then will be left off, again, in hardship, because we know that disabled people are more likely than many other groups to be living in poverty. The child poverty reports tell us exactly that: that being disabled is actually one of, unfortunately\u2014and it shouldn\u2019t be that way\u2014the largest reasons why somebody could find themselves in poverty, not because of the disability but because of political decisions being made to strip away support for disabled people, to scapegoat them, undermine them, discriminate them, instead of allowing everyone to have the life that they need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThis bill introduces mandatory reviews for things like the supported living payment, the emergency benefit with an expiry date beyond 52 weeks or no expiry date at all, the accommodation supplement\u2014and this is where the Minister tied in the intent of tying this bill with the one that we just passed\u2014the disability allowance, and New Zealand superannuation with a non-qualified partner or grandparent. The thing is, should this review happen\u2014I think particularly for the supported living payment it makes very little sense, since they already face a 52-week review anyway, so it just kind of feels like duplicating things\u2014and people find themselves receiving less, the reality is that that just means that they will be pushed deeper into poverty. People on the supported living payment, for example, they\u2019re not living a life of luxury, unless, you know, the Minister somehow thinks so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EIf those mandatory reviews find disabled people earning less each week, I don\u2019t see anywhere in this bill any provisions that take into account, for example, people\u2019s hardship, wellbeing, the likelihood of them becoming homeless before, for example, the machine\u2014the computer\u2014puts them in a disadvantaged position, because we know, right now, due to the inaccuracy of benefit entitlements, some people are getting more than what the system may prescribe. And you know what? For those people, I welcome that. They should be getting roses and bread and far more because, you know, the so-called overpayments they\u2019re receiving are not making these disabled people live a life of luxury. They may be allowing them to adequately be able to afford their rent or food and pay their\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e34bfc5e64a487fb0eeabc94e672ca6\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Feed their kids. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b29582a260e349b6aadf5b8676ac9416\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah\u2014and keep a roof over their heads. I\u2019m really concerned that the broadening of the automated decision-making, and I think it\u2019s also really intellectually not transparent for the Minister to not have told us that this was her intent, when in the Social Security (Mandatory Reviews) Amendment Bill, which allowed for the broadening of the use of automated decision-making, this is what she was planning to do and to use automated decision-making for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think this reeks of a Government that is hoping no one will be paying attention to the bills that they\u2019re pushing through with urgency. Why? Because they haven\u2019t told us about the real negative impacts on families as a result of the Social Security (Mandatory Reviews) Amendment Bill and the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill. We look forward to scrutinising this bill and putting forward amendments that mitigate the harm that the Government is planning to inflict on our communities. Shame on the Minister and this rotten-to-the-core Government for pushing through legislation that harms our most vulnerable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u0022683d0f7ccbcf4171930f8e877fe7117c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022683d0f7ccbcf4171930f8e877fe7117c\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m taking this call to support the Social Security (Mandatory Reviews) Amendment Bill on behalf of the ACT Party. We support this bill because this is actually bringing a proactive approach in our social welfare system. This approach is to improve the accuracy of information that the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) holds about different people on different kinds of benefits, those who receive assistance from the State. There is nothing wrong with making sure that the information that is held by MSD is updated from time to time to ensure that it is accurate and to ensure that those who are getting assistance from the State are getting the right kind of support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EI do not understand why somebody would oppose our State\u2014the Ministry of Social Development\u2014holding correct information about people, because this bill is not about people getting more or less assistance; this bill is about ensuring that people are getting the correct level of assistance. There are cases where people sometimes forget to update their circumstances. It could be that because of the change of their circumstances, they will need more support, and it is quite possible that because of the change in their circumstances, they will receive less support. But that needs to be reflected in the information that MSD holds about each and every client.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ESo this bill is about ensuring that, and it brings a proactive approach from MSD that the information will be reviewed every 52 weeks. It also allows, because human lives are complex\u2014we all know that\u2014for exceptions. It allows for exemptions; it also allows for extension of the review date. So it\u2019s a good bill. We support this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022 data-id=\u002221f645d7d3154ee2952d447377bbb663\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221f645d7d3154ee2952d447377bbb663\u0022\u003ETANYA UNKOVICH (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I stand on behalf of New Zealand First in support of the Social Security (Mandatory Reviews) Amendment Bill. Now, what this Government does is when we identify that there is a problem or an issue, we go ahead and find a solution for it, and then we implement it. We do it efficiently and we do it quickly because we want to run an efficient system for everyone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EWhat this amendment bill does is it amends the Social Security Act. There have been areas that have been identified that can be tightened. It\u2019s important that you continue to review controls and systems to ensure that everything runs smoothly, efficiently, and effectively. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EThat is what this Government does. We do everything efficiently, even when delivering our speeches in the House. I commend this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u0022c15c055d29764d07abb5dab1579152b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c15c055d29764d07abb5dab1579152b0\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Matarau\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E M\u014Drena, Madam Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koe. So how might I start this? Hmm. A society will be measured by the way it treats its women, as it should be. A society must be measured by the way it treats families that are in genuine need and at risk of further harm. I dread that not only this but the package of these bills all come to, I think, a really dead end, sadly, a dead end for the most vulnerable. So I dread that it\u2019s doomsday. When this next layer\u2014an\u0101, I can hear some sort of like moaning to the left of me. But if you just pause a second, what I\u2019m expressing is that when you package all of these ideas up, they are fundamentally about prejudice plus power, which can only equal racism, which is at the core of the way in which the thinking goes, and, therefore, bills that look like this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EHomelessness is soaring in T\u0101maki\u201453 percent increase in the last quarter. How does this help? Not a single way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ESurveillance and control is another part of what I\u2019m hearing and reading with this particular bill, and I just heard the term \u201Cefficiency\u201D\u2014right?\u2014as if this is the space where efficiency is the most necessary and required. Efficiency when there is suffering; families are suffering genuinely and they\u2019re vulnerable and they get the least of the big pie\u2014and that\u2019s where you want to surveil? And that\u2019s where you want to control? And then you pretend that it\u2019s called \u201Cefficiency\u201D. What a lot of nonsense. But those are the drivers, in my view.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThe other part that I think is a slippery slope is this automated decision-making idea. I agree with just one of the previous speakers: human lives are complex. It\u2019s very true, and they are dynamic. So why on earth do you think that an automated system is going to appreciate those very special things about being human after all? But it is a very slippery slope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ESo here\u2019s the thing. If you have to use an automated system, why would you do that? Let\u2019s just get some people into jobs so they can make those decisions. Why would you use a blinking machine? What is wrong with the Government? Why don\u2019t you just, like\u2014automated? Why would you do that? Do we not have enough people that need jobs? I mean, let\u2019s just think about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ESo here we go. I do want to impress particularly on the people to my left, if they were just to, you know, shush up\u2014to say that the traffic lights system, also the sanctions and that idea, is straight out of Squid Game. It\u2019s straight out of Squid Game. So too bad if you\u2019re on the red light; too bad about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ESo I do want to make these points. They are serious, they are real, and they matter. They matter in the places and in the spaces in which I live and work in and know and love and respect. And all of this, when you package it all up: it is bad to be brown and there is no way we support this. In fact, I would condemn it, and I wish I could just stand up and rip it up right now. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u00223856b1f98de2447b9bb114e5545c9da1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223856b1f98de2447b9bb114e5545c9da1\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I rise to speak on the Social Security (Mandatory Reviews) Amendment Bill. This is very simple. It introduces a requirement that the Ministry of Social Development must review a client\u2019s eligibility and rate of a specified benefit at least once every 52 weeks. That is to make sure that they are getting the right amount of assistance that they are entitled to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a very simple bill. It\u2019s quite amazing to hear the lack of quality of contributions from the Opposition. This also introduces a little bit of automated decision making, and, honestly, if that\u2019s the quality of debate we get from the Opposition, maybe there should be some more automated decision-making from the other side of the House as well. I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u00223da66a93afc64ae99dd21236831e8ccd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223da66a93afc64ae99dd21236831e8ccd\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I think that\u2019s a really interesting reflection on what\u2019s going on in the Government that a person complains about the quality of your speech while speaking for\u2014I think it was about 30 seconds. They\u2019re actually the lead on the Social Services and Community Committee that would have dealt with this. So the amount of actual knowledge that is being accumulated by that kind of superficial approach worries me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWhat I want to talk about is this bill itself, and I dispute what the member Joseph Mooney just said the bill does, because this is the problem definition in the regulatory impact statement: \u201CTo implement the Budget of 2024 cost savings initiatives to recognise housing contributions from all boarders in the assessment of housing subsidies, the Ministry of Social Development must be able to confirm the client\u2019s circumstances to determine whether contributions from boarders should affect the client\u2019s rate of housing subsidies.\u201D Except it goes on. Basically, it says the only way that we can find out if the people have boarders is by bringing them in once a year and checking that with them. That\u2019s what we\u2019re doing today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EIt is not about equity. It is not about making sure they\u2019re all right. It\u2019s not making sure they get all the right things or fairness. This is about making sure that everybody who receives any kind of subsidy from the Government is hauled in and has to disclose that information so that the Government can capture the information of our boarders. That\u2019s what\u2019s going on here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EIt was such a big task. We\u2019re talking about a whole huge range of New Zealanders now, because everybody who has an accommodation supplement, all these other groups\u2014and we\u2019ll talk about them in the committee stage\u2014are going to be covered. All these people who, really, they\u2019re on benefits for life for reasons like disabilities or accidents, etc., all of those people, they\u2019re all going in the door once a year. All those working New Zealanders who are working as our caregivers, because they are on minimum wage and can\u2019t make ends meet and get an accommodation supplement, they\u2019re going in there as well. That\u2019s all happening so we can capture the information about boarders, so we can take $150 million off them in a three-year period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EMake no bones, that\u2019s what this piece of legislation is about. It\u2019s very much connected with the last piece of legislation we saw. We wouldn\u2019t be doing it without that happening. So I just simply dispute the reasons given on the other side, and I would ask people to think very clearly about what the purpose of this legislation is, because that\u2019s why you\u2019re going to see a tough fight today from the Opposition. The reason we\u2019re going to fight hard for ordinary New Zealanders is that this touches the lives of so many people that we didn\u2019t impact in this way. We didn\u2019t put them into a situation where every year they were going back because it seemed inhumane or unnecessary. We tried to have a light touch. But, actually, now, we\u2019re going to grab them and tell them they have to come in to see someone every year because we want the information about how much money we can claw back from them. That\u2019s what\u2019s going on. Let\u2019s not forget it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThe people who will be affected are people who are listed in the legislation itself, and they include people on supported living payments, people on emergency benefits, people on accommodation supplements, disability allowances, New Zealand superannuants with a non-qualified partner. Those people will all be hauled out into the office once a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ll talk about automation in the committee stage, but right now I just want to set the scene. This is a five-minute speech and it\u2019s really important New Zealand understands what it\u2019s about. It\u2019s about taking money away from people in a cost of living crisis, the very people who can least afford it. It is as important as the bill, because it\u2019s the mechanism to do it. So expect a bit of a fight today because we\u2019re going to be giving you one as Opposition. We\u2019re standing up for ordinary New Zealanders who are doing it tough. This Government promised them it would help them. It has done nothing but harm them, and this bill does that too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022 data-id=\u0022b990c0c63dc84dc1944cf86e5d4a62a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b990c0c63dc84dc1944cf86e5d4a62a3\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E The Social Security (Mandatory Reviews) Amendment Bill is exactly that: mandatory reviews every 52 weeks for beneficiaries to confirm that their circumstances have remained the same, that they remain eligible, and that their eligibility gives them the right assistance. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u00224e554267f6444099a94107293cca19f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e554267f6444099a94107293cca19f9\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. We\u2019re here now to consider this Social Security (Mandatory Reviews) Amendment Bill, which basically amends the Social Security Act 2018 in order to allow the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) to use an automated decision-making system to review the specific benefits that people receive and to be able to take action once every 52 weeks\u2014once every year. So that\u2019s a couple of things that this bill does. Really, what it aims to do that for is to then ensure that MSD can put in place and make decisions on the previous bill that we\u2019ve been debating in this House, the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill, which is to ensure that those who take on boarders then have to have the money that they get from it considered as income and then taken into consideration when their assistance and benefits are then considered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ESo this bill gives effect to that previous one, and one of the things that I wanted to raise about this bill is the fact that when I get correspondence, largely, from disabled people\u2014and they will be impacted by this bill\u2014one of the things that\u2019s often raised with me is just how onerous it is to constantly justify the benefit that you need. This is a bill that will impact those on a supported living payment and a disability allowance, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI do, however, want to just take a minute to clarify what will be within scope of the mandatory reviews, because I know that there\u2019s angst out there. This is, again, going through all stages under urgency, which means that members of the public will not be able to submit in the way that they otherwise would have through the select committee process. One of the main issues is when disabled people have to constantly justify that they still have their disability through medical checks. I do want to just point out that this bill doesn\u2019t require them to do that, because I know that there is anxiety out there. I see in the RIS\u2014in the regulatory impact statement\u2014that it says, \u201CAll mandatory reviews for \u2026 clients will not include a review of their health condition or disability.\u201D That is a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EHowever, there is a huge amount of stress that people, particularly disabled people, go through when they have to constantly go through the motions of justifying the benefit that they need, and this bill will contribute to that. So I will just point that out: that I don\u2019t support it from that point of view, as well, because it\u2019s just more onerous for people who are on a supported living payment or a disability allowance. The RIS states that this would include reviewing approximately 100,000 people on supported living payments and 125,000 clients who get the disability allowance. So we are talking about a large number of people, just those who get those two specific benefits, and it will require them to confirm that the information that MSD currently holds about them is true and accurate, and that will impact their benefit eligibility and their rates. So it will add to the anxiety that people are already facing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe other point that I just wanted to make that is laid out in the RIS is the assumptions around both the accuracy and MSD\u2019s social licence to be able to use the automated decision-making system (ADM). It says here that there are assumptions that this automated decision-making system \u201Cwill create more positive outcomes for clients. In general ADM is intended to ensure [that] people receive all the assistance [that] they are entitled to by removing the human element including inconsistent eligibility information and any unconscious bias.\u201D However, it also removes the human ability for discretion, as well. It says here, \u201CHowever, depending on the design of the algorithms used, it is possible for the use of ADM to entrench existing inequities in the welfare system as these can be built into \u2026 data collection.\u201D That is worrying. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe RIS also goes on to say that \u201CThere is an assumption that MSD has the social licence for machines to make decisions. It is assumed that the widespread use of ADM outside of MSD may mean the public would expect and even support [it to use it] within the welfare system.\u201D However, this has not been tested, and it goes on to say that there\u2019s been no public consultation on this. As I said at the start, there is no ability for members of the public to submit because there is no select committee process, either. For all of those reasons, I don\u2019t commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022 data-id=\u00220a2050e1315542c4a990f2750ba0a8b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a2050e1315542c4a990f2750ba0a8b9\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E This is a fantastic Budget, with more than ever before for healthcare, more doctors, more nurses, an after-hours in Levin, and health shuttles for K\u0101piti. There is more for education with teacher-aides and learning support. There is funding for defence, there is support for seniors, and there are better savings in KiwiSaver. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aca2f2da887d408c9f1123422325c05b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Costley, this is not a Budget speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6d7ec07259043fc9e4406826dabd6b1\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY\u003C/span\u003E: This bill delivers more support. It makes sure people are getting the right amount that they should be, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002289d425cdbd3148d088ee17685e0b3b26\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Social Security (Mandatory Reviews) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000392\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00227b0209b3ce5845ff9118c67dab923c50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b0209b3ce5845ff9118c67dab923c50\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is set down for second reading immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022002977e2617b45c387052850960b604b\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022a527130279444ccaa83fc56ac4817a1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a527130279444ccaa83fc56ac4817a1c\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Social Security (Mandatory Reviews) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThis bill seeks to amend the Social Security Act to enable regular reviews of some benefits. The bill will ensure more clients are paid the correct entitlement by introducing a requirement that the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) must review some specified benefits annually. The specified benefits are notable because they do not expire. Without the requirement to reapply, some people receive these benefits for many years, without the need to contact MSD. In this speech, I want to touch more on the nature of the reviews and how they will operate. The only reason a client\u2019s payments would change as a result of this bill is if something has changed that affects their entitlement\u2014like their income, for example\u2014since they last confirmed their details to MSD.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EAs a result of these changes, it is possible that some clients will see their payments increase. For example, they may have additional costs relating to their disability that is not reflected in their disability allowance because they hadn\u2019t informed MSD. It is also possible that some people may have a reduction in their payment rate, or lose entitlement if they are no longer eligible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe process is very different to a reapplication, which is required for people seeking the jobseeker support and sole parent support. Clients will be given at least 20 working days\u2019 notice of the review. MSD will present the information it holds about clients to them, and all they have to do is say whether or not that information is still correct. If the information is correct, their payments will automatically continue; if the information is incorrect, a staff member will work with a client to update their information and confirm their new entitlement, if any. Clients will be able to complete their review through various channels and they can request support from MSD if it\u2019s needed. If a client doesn\u2019t respond to the review within the given time frame, MSD will stop their benefit. They will have further time to respond; if they do not, their benefit will be cancelled and they will need to reapply. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00222e35ec47b0d841f68889e33e29342390\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e35ec47b0d841f68889e33e29342390\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00228fa6a085bc7b49e9a4b354f8823b6d8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228fa6a085bc7b49e9a4b354f8823b6d8b\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Now, quite obviously, we don\u2019t agree with the motion, and it\u2019s another kick in the guts for people at ground level. It just continues, this afternoon\u2014a continuation of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI thought I\u2019d read a couple of things that some of our very learned people out in the community are saying. The Salvation Army, for instance, regarding automation stated that automatic decision-making \u201Ccannot account for the complexities we often see in the individuals we support\u201D, such as financial hardship, ejections, and mental health or unstable living conditions. I would always think that you would take into account the Salvation Army\u2019s recommendations, given that they\u2019re a pretty much apolitical organisation. They work with whoever the Government is to do some sterling work in our communities. So that\u2019s a group that you should be listening to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe Law Society say that \u201CThis raises significant concern about how the use of automated systems will apply where the sanctions provisions involve some sort of evaluative judgement, for example those relating to money management and community work.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThese types of views and recommendations have to be put into perspective. The Welfare Expert Advisory Group 2019 report made the recommendation to remove the requirement to reapply for a benefit every 52 weeks. \u201CMSD is expected to provide full and correct entitlements through regular reviews (at least annually)\u201D. So I want to commend the previous Minister, Carmel Sepuloni, because we were certainly on track in terms of some of that work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe regulatory impact statement (RIS) alone shows that the Government should not have proceeded with these changes. The RIS for this bill highlights that one of the consequences may be that MSD will have to direct more resources towards compliance and therefore away from employment initiatives. The other side of it is, with respect to our MSD staff, some of them are so busy with the administrative work that they won\u2019t be able to apply the time needed to actually roll out some of the changes that this Government wants. So the reality is they\u2019ll have to literally put less resources into helping beneficiaries into work. Surely that\u2019s where the time should be spent. That\u2019s where the priority should be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EResearch also cited in the RIS highlights that sanctions may increase again. I know the other side say, \u201COh, this is not about sanctions.\u201D; this is all about sanctions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a638e4c475f4315a379b6221263910a\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: This is nothing to do with sanctions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022647dd3a9d209469f8ff0e743b79d8329\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, here we go again! I\u2019m going to have to have a cup of tea with Mr Mooney. Madam Speaker, me and Mr Mooney, we\u2019re going to have to go and have a cup of coffee, because clearly he does not understand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cddbb4eb436745cf897de465728bd706\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Lunch time is coming. That sounds like an invitation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ba23022ee0340448e61316fdebe6c64\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Lunch time is coming! Yeah\u2014he can buy me lunch, Madam Speaker. He can buy me lunch, because, you know\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c47ad3e18cb540e2b98af75a1213af88\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Now we\u2019ll go back to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022981b92038cd54e0a860943be16ebac45\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Going back to the bill. But, as I said, research cited in the RIS highlights that sanctions\u2014again, and I keep saying it\u2014may increase mental and physical health problems, including substance abuse and poverty. The RIS highlights that previous work on reapplication showed that cancellations of the benefit as part of the reapplication process often led to a new application, suggesting procedural denials rather than ineligibility. The RIS also highlighted that focusing on those close to a return to work, via case management, was almost certainly to the detriment of long-term beneficiaries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI think damning job seekers and their partners with needless bureaucracy that will be managed by a faceless artificial intelligence (AI) programme, as if their disability has magically healed since you last asked them, is not the track or the way that they should go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EApparently, Elon Musk, a great supporter of the National Party, is concerned about AI, but apparently MSD and this Government are not, despite concerns from the Privacy Commissioner, who has really come out on this. The Office of the Privacy Commissioner has requested the inclusion\u2014and Mr Mooney will know that\u2014of the following comment: \u201CThe Privacy Commissioner was not consulted during the policy development and non-financial section initiatives were not traversed as required by the Cabinet manual.\u201D Automated decision-making can provide significant efficiencies, but we also know from overseas experience that it needs to be used judicially\u2014judiciously, I should say\u2014with care to avoid privacy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de953ef4720a46de980c8eac50b83fdf\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: Say it again!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233c23281effa481ebd53238793a2bc1e\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Judiciously\u2014how does that sound? Is that a bit better? Do you want me to say it in M\u0101ori for you? Ha, ha! I won\u2019t, because none of you understand M\u0101ori. You\u2019re a disgrace to the country in that area. You already know that. Where\u2019s your one M\u0101ori speaker? Oh, he\u2019s gone. Oh, no\u2014Greg. Where\u2019s Greg? Oh, no, he\u2019s gone too, so never mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022258214ea22c2443f8622dfad0b14855f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. You can\u2019t refer to who has gone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200468c2e024847699f94e277c35cf435\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: My apologies, Madam Speaker. My apologies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afe470d8611645718f794dcd3da5393c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c22156d21a4f42d3bcf70f5e0553ac02\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Government wants AI to find ways to sanction job seekers. It\u2019s not going to be used to help them find jobs. That\u2019s the problem here. The use of AI and technology, that\u2019s all fine, but how are you using that? You\u2019re using that against people at the coalface, people who should be supported. Penalising them with sanctions that remove their agency of spending money with the money management scheme\u2014which makes it impossible, as we\u2019ve highlighted through this process, for beneficiaries to pay for rent, for the power bill, and for kids\u2019 school uniforms\u2014is a terrible way of working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThis isn\u2019t welfare reforms. What people are seeing from this Government, it\u2019s like a campaign against the vulnerable. It\u2019s like a campaign against the poor for having the temerity to ask for help from their Government, who\u2019ve purposefully crashed the economy and pushed unemployment up higher. We know this to be the truth\u2014we know this to be the truth\u2014purposely crashing, and then blaming Labour for everything. That\u2019s the strategy. \u201COh, it\u2019s Labour\u2019s fault. Everything is Labour\u2019s fault.\u201D, that\u2019s what they\u2019re saying. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EBut we know that the tide has turned. And with the recent attacks on women in this country from this Government to subsidise their Budget\u2014what an embarrassment that was the other day, that you had the Minister of Finance\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225969cfaa6e634bccb5e683520262a759\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Where\u2019s Barbara? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d25d8a51ba243cead985f5e850210ff\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014admitting that they had to throw women under the bus to get the Budget out. Twelve billion dollars taken off women just so they could get a Budget out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a9ce27aaae24a62a455aeda1e0f914c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry to interrupt, Mr Jackson, but I\u2019m hearing calls from the other side of the House specifically asking where a person is by their first name, and it\u2019s not appropriate. Please stop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b34fea3d81984040a3523b6868ade3ff\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, my apologies, again, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7594d482d324625a79a02139be8dd06\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, not you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222be93627f55644c7be3433b2656a1129\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, not me?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225817c0fec88e406c907072e805761dec\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Not you\u2014no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022064bb5bfd9cb4e94a1395e711f86504e\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: OK. I knew it was them!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d732d9fd7e6742d5a6f10e01a62bef8c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re doing fine. You\u2019ve got one minute, 23 seconds left if you wish to take it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f979ba4bba1941e6a226eeb1861ae5ad\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I knew it was them! It was probably Chris Bishop\u2019s fault, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022009521f02c164e6fbf63d74ab03c48fc\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. We\u2019re not blaming\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0201cb42682466fb1801b6fbf2a1c79\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, it wasn\u2019t Chris Bishop\u2019s fault? OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c8b66cf4ea04a94a3b19accf2fc06b6\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Carry on, otherwise you won\u2019t have one minute, 12 seconds left.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7da4dd9cdca425fb2d7e40fb1960507\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, thank you very much, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThis bill is another shameful bill, though, from Chris Bishop, who drives the ship, and it\u2019s another punch down in terms of beneficiaries and our community. Why did you do this, Mr Bishop? Why did you sacrifice women? Why did you throw them under the bus for your Budget? Why did you let David Seymour embarrass you? I know he\u2019s one of your best mates from way back, but you still shouldn\u2019t have let him embarrass you like that. I was looking at a photo of you and David in the old days. You looked a bit younger then. But why did you\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a2e166125bd4e11b72ce16cf0cdb65f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: About the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248e8fd75454d4bf4a0b450e15e4043c0\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: About the bill? I thought I was on the bill. Anyway, all I want to say is this is yet another bill that we oppose because we have got the right strategies for our people. We are sick and tired of the punitive, harsh, cold, ruthless strategy from Chris Bishop and his National Government. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u002281c6a7f38dd44f8d869452b49ab6a897\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281c6a7f38dd44f8d869452b49ab6a897\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s really clear that the Government has decided to let beneficiaries eat coal, because the savings produced by this Budget are coming from some of our most vulnerable and poorest communities out there. The Government has chosen to target low-income renters and people on the benefit to save a substantive amount of money. If we look at this bill, what we do know is that the Government will be saving over $200 million in savings over the next five years due to the 225,000 claims being reviewed. What we also know is that, despite what the Minister may say and may claim, the regulatory impact statement has warned the Minister that, actually\u2014and I will quote; this is about improving accuracy. She talked a lot in her first reading speech about how this will help improve accuracy, because, right now, almost half of benefit entitlements are incorrectly assessed. That is, in large part, due to the stresses that the front line is facing. The Minister is quite happy to offload this to an algorithm, and the regulatory impact statement told us, \u201CHowever, depending on the design of the algorithms used, it is possible for the use of [automatic decision-making] to entrench existing inequities in the welfare system as these can be built into the data collection.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWhat we do know is that there is the potential for harm in this piece of legislation. The Government, as usual, didn\u2019t allow for adequate consultation to happen, because they\u2019re so arrogant that they think that they can just ram this through, scared of facing up to the communities that this could be negatively affecting. I challenge the Minister to release the information to guarantee to this House and for us to have an adequate, robust debate at the committee of the whole House on the algorithm that the Ministry of Social Development will be using to assess and evaluate the benefit entitlements of some of our most vulnerable, most at risk of homelessness, most at risk of hardship, and most at risk of violence communities impacted by this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI challenge the Minister to release the RIS\u2014the regulatory impact statement, which is, basically, the only document that we\u2019ve been given to see the analysis of the Ministry of Social Development in relation to this bill\u2014unredacted. They\u2019ve covered up a bunch of sections of the regulatory impact statement, which means that they\u2019re preventing adequate scrutiny in relation to the legislation. They should give us the whole document, completely unredacted, so that they can be held to account for the decisions that they\u2019re making, because it is the most vulnerable people who will be subjected to these 52-week reviews.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI know that the member before me, the Hon Willie Jackson, called these \u201Cbenefit sanctions\u201D. They are benefit sanctions by another name because it\u2019s another tool for the Ministry of Social Development to deprive people of income support. If people do not comply with these reviews adequately, they will be stripped of their income support. That\u2019s a benefit sanction by another name. It\u2019s another tool for the Minister to meet her target of 50,000 less people on the benefit. It\u2019s not about getting 50,000 people into work and out of poverty; it\u2019s 50,000 people who are not receiving income support. This bill will help her meet her target of punching down on those who need support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think the Minister was afraid, once again, of being told by people on the benefit that their experiences with Work and Income have not been positive. In fact, not just under this Government but throughout decades, we have had the Welfare Expert Advisory Group tell us about the many challenges in relation to the culture at Work and Income and the challenges that people face. Under this Government, we have seen reports of an increase in decline of hardship grants. We have seen reports of an increase in declines in emergency housing grants, and now we have a bill, under urgency, that does not guarantee a material benefit for our communities doing it tough but, instead, offloads work from the front lines on to an algorithm without a guarantee of having positive impacts on our communities. This is all part of a plan to offload and under resource the front line at the Work and Income offices and pass things either to the phone line, to MyMSD, or to a faceless algorithm at a time when people are reporting they\u2019re waiting, for example, hours to get to someone on the phone at MSD or waiting days\u2014sometimes a week\u2014to get a face-to-face appointment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThe Minister also hasn\u2019t outlined what the so-called potential and safeguard mechanisms are for someone to challenge the findings of the algorithm and the automated decision-making in the analysis given to us. For example, there are supposed to be options that someone who\u2019s receiving income support can state that the information presented to them by the automated decision-making systems is incorrect, and then they say, \u201CWell, all we have is that a staff member processes the review and resets the review date or will stop the benefit if the client is ineligible.\u201D It doesn\u2019t talk about exactly how that will be communicated to them\u2014for example, there\u2019s no guarantees about the timelines where a staff member will actually get back to the person on the benefit. But what it will do is increase the stress that someone will be facing, because, for example, if the automatic decision-making system tells someone, \u201CHey, I have found that your benefit entitlements have been incorrectly assessed and you risk losing your entirety of your benefit.\u201D, that person will now be wondering, \u201CAm I about to become homeless?\u201D That is the reality that people face. In the regulatory impact statement, due to a lack of a select committee process, we haven\u2019t been given enough information about exactly how a staff member will process the review and reset the review date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI also think the Minister was factually incorrect when she said that these automatic decision-making, 52-week reviews are triggered as a result of changes in circumstances. They happen automatically, right? So, again, the way in which people will be targeted will be hard for people to actually get certainty and understanding of when that will be happening and the impact that it will have. I think, as the regulatory impact statement found, let\u2019s name the groups that, once again, the Government has decided to disproportionately target once more. It\u2019s not those CEOs doing it really well and hoarding all the wealth; it\u2019s M\u0101ori. We\u2019ve had in the regulatory impact statement that M\u0101ori could be disproportionately negatively impacted, particularly by changes in their entitlements to benefit, and Pacific people and older people, as well as disabled people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think that this speaks to a Government that is quite happy, as part of their savings, to target some of the communities that are most disproportionately impacted by poverty, not because of their own decisions or their own circumstances but because of Government decisions throughout the decades.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b09de252cdce44b781b39c3a4fb25359\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: This is a ramble with no relevance to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022323794b69ae14d03a398fe4c5af1479d\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: Once again, I find it pretty outrageous that Joseph Mooney, the chair of the committee that we could have evaluated this bill under, has decided to turn this whole debate into a laughing matter and simply just gives constant heckles when I think he should front up to the harms that this bill can cause. If he\u2019s so confident that this bill doesn\u2019t have the capacity to cause harm, then tell us. Tell us in your contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EAnyway, through the Speaker, what I do want to emphasise is that the Green Party, obviously, does not support this bill and we do have a completely different vision for an income support system that treats people with respect and dignity. In fact, having an income guarantee, instead of, for example, what we have right now, would take away the need for automatic decision-making for the purposes of assessing these many automated decision-making systems. It would actually probably save MSD far more money and time than having to do what the Government is doing right now. We have a fully costed plan to address this, and unlike punching down on those most vulnerable, as we have seen in the analysis presented to us in this bill, we\u2019ll make the wealthy few pay anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cc2debf5dea41a2a6b3daf7ff87337b\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: What a complete load of nonsense, Ricardo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b58a1f6031ea4bc5a2733b3be367d7f0\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: I just heard that this is a bunch of nonsense. What I do think is nonsense, what I do think is a lot of BS, despite the part where Nicola Willis says this is a \u201Cno BS Budget\u201D, is having this kind of legislation being rushed through urgency. There was no reason to have this under urgency. There was no rush for this. There\u2019s no rush for this bill. All the rush we have here is because the Government had to scramble to save money now, because they realised they can\u2019t afford the tax cuts for the wealthy. There was no reason to have this under urgency. There\u2019s nothing in this bill, or in the analysis that told us that the Government was under some form of time pressure to make sure we can have an algorithm to review people\u2019s benefit entitlements\u2014there\u2019s no urgency for this. But the Government chose to push it through under urgency none the less, to target beneficiaries, to create savings for the initiatives that will benefit the fossil fuel industry, the mining CEOs, the wealthy landlords doing it well, and the people that they talk to at the Koru Lounge, instead of, for example, the Salvation Army officers who have come out and\u2014rightfully so\u2014criticised the extension of automatic decision-making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWe don\u2019t support the disgrace of a bill, and we call on the Government to actually allow for a select committee process so that people that they\u2019re scared off can adequately contribute to this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022 data-id=\u00229b2c154ff6be40a7be757a9bd7d430a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b2c154ff6be40a7be757a9bd7d430a1\u0022\u003ELAURA McCLURE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m more than happy to take this call and bring some common sense back to the House. It is not unreasonable to expect, if you\u2019re receiving a benefit of some sort, to have a review once a year\u2014a review. And if your information is all the same and it\u2019s completely correct, nothing changes. How is that unreasonable? On this side of the House, we believe in common sense. We believe in treating taxpayers\u2019 money with respect. So I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022 data-id=\u002273dbd55c503547f5996e0f658c56219a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273dbd55c503547f5996e0f658c56219a\u0022\u003ETANYA UNKOVICH (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to support the second reading of the Social Security (Mandatory Reviews) Amendment Bill. There\u2019s been a lot of talk about the automated decision-making (ADM) system during these debates. I\u2019m old enough to remember the days when we worked out the payroll by hand. We got a document from the IRD and we manually had to look line by line to see how much PAYE went out for every single employee. But here\u2019s the thing: times have changed and everything is moving forward. Everything is getting more automated. It is something that we need to do. We cannot stay stagnant and not move ahead with the times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EThis is one way we can do things more efficiently, and here\u2019s the positive thing about having the ADM used: when more of that is used, then that will free up some of the time so that a human can speak to a human when they need one-on-one support. So there is a positive in using this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First and our coalition partners are all about efficiency\u2014not wasting time and money, and taking care of the people, not giving speeches that are just a sound bite but giving facts. On that note, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00224680055b9cf1404e889df341c3e39e09\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224680055b9cf1404e889df341c3e39e09\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the next member, I understand that Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori has handed their call to the Greens. So can I clarify: is this going to be a 10-minute speech from the Greens? [Interruption] OK. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022 data-id=\u00229e82c82506c84f71b2656755e3391909\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e82c82506c84f71b2656755e3391909\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. I rise on behalf of the Green Party in strong opposition to the Social Security (Mandatory Reviews) Amendment Bill. This is yet another example of the Government using bureaucracy as a blunt instrument against those already doing it tough\u2014another example of a Government more interested in policing poverty than solving it. It is a bill that will deepen the stress and surveillance of our welfare system, a system that should be rooted in care, dignity, and trust. I\u2019m proud to live in a country that supports people in need, and I am ashamed to know that this Government is making decisions on behalf of our country that are cruel, greedy, and push more people into hardship. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EThis bill mandates that every person receiving the supported living payment, disability allowance, and other supports must go through a mandatory review every 52 weeks. It means that every year, tens of thousands of people, including disabled people, older New Zealanders, and our most vulnerable wh\u0101nau will be dragged through a process that\u2019s invasive, stressful, and unnecessary, punishing poor people for being poor. And not only that, the bill enables automated decision-making kitted to conduct these reviews. No guarantee of human oversight, no space for context, for compassion, or for complexity; just a machine deciding whether or not a person gets to keep their basic means of survival.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EWhat this bill does not do is improve outcomes for the people it targets. It will not reduce poverty, it will not support wh\u0101nau, and it will not create a more just or compassionate welfare system. Instead, it adds another layer of stress for people already battling to make ends meet. It creates more work for front-line case managers, not less, and for disabled people\u2014many who rely on the supported living payment and disability allowance\u2014it sends a cruel message that no matter how long-term or permanent their condition is, it must be continually proven that they are still disabled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EThis must be taken in context of the broader barriers that disabled people face. It is dehumanising, it is unnecessary, and it is wrong. And it is happening at the exact same time that this Government is making brutal cuts to the incomes and supports that wh\u0101nau rely on. The Budget\u2019s Child Poverty Report 2025, released just days ago, confirmed what we already feared. This Government\u2019s policies are child poverty and increasing the number of children living in material hardship. Further, it stated that this Budget will have no meaningful impact on child poverty rates and does nothing to meet our child poverty reduction targets\u2014nothing. The decision to means test the Best Start payment will remove vital support from 62,000 parents, 55,000 of whom will now get nothing in their baby\u2019s first year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EI want to talk about the use of urgency for these bills that are being passed. Usually, the second reading comes after the select committee process, a process that gives experts and people affected by the upcoming bill a chance to have their say and tell us, the decision makers, about how the bill will affect their lives, their children\u2019s lives, and their wh\u0101nau\u2019s lives. It\u2019s a chance for them to scrutinise this bill. It\u2019s democratic and it\u2019s fair, but this Government has decided to lock out the public and subject experts from scrutinising the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EThe regulatory impact statement says that no public consultation was sought, and because no one could submit on the select committee process, my usual process of being able to take quotes and uplift the voices of the communities that this bill most affects, like disabled people, like M\u0101ori, like Pacific people, like our kaum\u0101tua, and like our young people, means that I have gathered some of these quotes myself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EThe Child Poverty Action Group (CPAG) says\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CThe Government has put up a policy package knowing it will increase child poverty in Aotearoa. CPAG estimates the Budget will lock around an additional 20,000 children in poverty over the next three years.\u201D I take a quote from Jacqui Southey, an advocacy director at Save the Children: \u201CRecessions are a time when more resources should be extended to people who are struggling the most, not less.\u201D She is worried that child poverty is going to be increasing because of the decisions that this Government is making. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EA quote here from Bonnie Robinson from the Salvation Army, in their Social Policy and Parliamentary Unit: \u201CChildren in low-income households should not be the ones paying the highest price to meet Government goals of bringing the books back into order.\u201D Bonnie is calling for immediate changes to the welfare system to lift children out of hardship. This bill and the previous bill are not what she meant by immediate changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EAs Alicia Sudden from the New Zealand Council of Christian Social Services put it: \u201Cthis Budget will leave thousands of children in poverty.\u201D This bill continues this trend and it will add new barriers to those already on the margins. It will deepen the stresses for families navigating disability, low incomes, and the rising cost of living. It is not care; this is about control and policing people in poverty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EI want to take the time to really appeal to the love that many of the members in this House have for Jesus\u2014Jesus, who called his followers to care for the poor, not to burden them further. Jesus preferred the company of the poor, the marginalised, and the disabled. Jesus showed us that greed has no place in leadership. I ask the members on the other side: what would Jesus do? Jesus would choose compassion over greed and he would choose justice over profits for the greedy few.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EThe Green Party believes in a welfare system built on trust, not suspicion. That is the country that I am proud to live in, one that cares for our disabled people, that cares for our elderly, that cares for our children, and a system that lifts people up, not grinds them down. A system that recognises that people who need support the most should not have to fight the hardest to get it or to keep it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EPoverty is a political choice. Instead of bringing it to an end, the coalition has prioritised lining the pockets of the wealthy. We want a system where income support is simple, fair, and sufficient, where people aren\u2019t forced to justify their existence to a faceless algorithm. The algorithm doesn\u2019t have compassion. The algorithm can\u2019t understand the complexities that are faced by people who need our support, where compassion, not compliance, is a guiding principle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EWe will be voting against this bill, and we urge others in the House to do the same. I implore the other side of the House to reach into your compassion for our children, and I ask you: what would Jesus do? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u00223ae7cf9a571549da8d10ac8faad3d349\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ae7cf9a571549da8d10ac8faad3d349\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. This Government is going to bring in structured literacy, which will, hopefully, help people, like the Opposition, actually get some reading comprehension and actually read the bills and understand what they\u2019re about, because they don\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EThis bill makes sure that the Ministry of Social Development will check that beneficiaries are getting the right rate of assistance once a year. It doesn\u2019t change the rules around eligibility. These Luddites over here don\u2019t understand what this automated decision-making will be. This will just trigger a review, process a review, and suspend or cancel a client\u2019s benefit if they don\u2019t respond within a specified time period. It keeps the human in the system to make sure people get the right amount that they need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EThis is not a laughing matter; this is a serious matter, but we are laughing at the Opposition because they don\u2019t even read policy. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u002234232d20a5d94e15a5a26c54e191b9f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234232d20a5d94e15a5a26c54e191b9f8\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, what a curious speech that I\u2019m going to respond to a little bit. Some interesting words in there like \u201CLuddite\u201D and an accusation that the Opposition doesn\u2019t read the bills or the policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWell, the member will be very happy to know that I spent considerable time reading this bill. I\u2019ve even\u2014[Interruption]\u2014been looking at the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224810801b3e18405d9bdac1f57980712a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK, we\u2019ll just listen to one speaker at the moment. Interjections are fine but not arguments across the House from both sides.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224a4d74d99ec45278ec63b23bba17155\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019ve spent some time this morning looking at the regulatory impact statement (RIS), and what a surprise. In an urgency debate from this Government, there is actually a RIS, so well done on that, and even a departmental disclosure document. And I will be referring to those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, the member who just resumed his seat said this is just about reviews, and we\u2019ve heard that from a number of members. If it is simply about reviews, why is it here in Budget urgency? Might that be because the RIS, on page 12, says that the cost of the IT for this will be $5.339 million and the fulltime-equivalent costs associated with that is $7.559 million. Is it also because in that RIS it talks about the expected $238.302 million in benefits or related expenses savings over five years? This is about money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, if the Government wants to recoup money from reviews, then that is their choice. But do not come and tell the Opposition that it isn\u2019t about money; it\u2019s about simply doing a review. It is about money. We are in a Budget debate. It is that simple.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, a word that I\u2019ve been using a little bit is \u201Cdystopian\u201D, because this is dystopian and it\u2019s not what I was expecting to be talking about on a Saturday morning. So what we know and what we\u2019ve heard from the other speakers is that there is automated decision-making (ADM). I want to acknowledge that in the Social Security Act, and the change that appears to be made in 2023, there is already an ability for some automated decision-making. So that already exists. But what we have in this bill at clause 5 is, in addition to that\u2014and I want Mr Mooney, the member for Southland, to note the use of the word \u201Csanctions\u201D, because this is a new word introduced into section 363A(3), Mr Mooney. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI mention that because we\u2019ve heard from Government benches that this has nothing to do about sanctions. But here is the word in the bill that perhaps the Government members might want to read. Perhaps the Government members would have taken more time to consider this had they been through a select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ESo there we go. We have section 363A, which already existed, but the addition is\u2014so there was already the specified provisions about sharing child support payment information. But then there is a new paragraph (b) about sanctions; and then there is also a paragraph (c), which is very pertinent to this piece of legislation, obviously, because it\u2019s about mandatory reviews by the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) of specified benefits; there\u2019s a new paragraph (d) as well. So it is interesting that there are those changes, and I think the members opposite should reflect on those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWe have this expansion of what the automated decision-making can do. And, of course, we on this side are worried, genuine concerns about scope creep of automated decision-making. So it doesn\u2019t appear that there are any additional safeguards about that automated decision-making in this bill, despite the expansion of the use of that automated decision-making. That is a very important point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, we can go to the RIS, which is, you know, good that we have a RIS. So, on page 3, there is mention of an assumption around the social licence. There is an assumption that MSD has a social licence for machines to make decisions. It is assumed that the widespread use of ADM outside of MSD may mean the public would expect and even support its use within the welfare system. However, the public sentiment on this matter has not been explicitly tested.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EAnd how would you explicitly test that? Well, you\u2019d have a select committee process. But we don\u2019t have that. So we\u2019ve heard from Government members, \u201CWell, why don\u2019t you refer to the ADM standard?\u201D And if you look further in the\u2014well, if you look to the original provision in the Social Security Act, section 363A, it does require that there be a standard and that this standard needs to be gazetted. That\u2019s in subpart 5A of that piece of legislation. And we can see that in the Appendix 1 of the RIS.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EBut this goes against some of the things we\u2019ve heard from speeches already. So the standard says that a decision may be discretionary or non-discretionary. Now, we heard, in her first reading speech, the Minister for Social Development and Employment saying that these decisions would only be made about non-discretionary decisions. But where is the safeguard about that? I cannot see it in the bill, and then when I look to this piece of secondary legislation that Government members are relying on, it does not provide the safeguards that I would expect. So this document has a lot of internal sort of requirements about it and says that there must be as much transparency as possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EAnd it says under \u201CCompliance and assurance\u201D, \u201CCompliance with this standard must be verified for all new uses \u2026 through the existing\u201D\u2014the existing\u2014\u201CSecurity, Privacy, Human Rights and Ethics Certification and Accreditation process.\u201D I don\u2019t know how they will change for this new use and if there is anything that will require this standard, that is very generalised, to be changed for the specific changes that we have now in front of us, which are about these annual reviews\u2014annual reviews that this Government is anticipating to make a lot of money from. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a98e685ee39a4aabb3fcb1958efeacf8\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Make money, or just make sure people only get what they should get.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8d2b3c65188414d834b64000d0ca10d\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: So it is very important that when someone is going to have money cancelled\u2014oh, someone\u2019s saying it\u2019s money\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022169c7c81f0454f1bbf32836c033762ce\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Just making sure they get what they should get.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9d80c1fda604b75b7e460eb64f67a23\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re making sure that it\u2019s money that they should get. Well, if that member is so sure about that, then the Government members will want to talk about these algorithms, because we also have seen in the documents in front of us an acknowledgment that the algorithms that go into the sort of machine\u2014these are automated decision-making\u2014we know that they can have a bias, and that bias is the problem that we are concerned about, that there is a bias that may lead to the wrong decision being made. If the wrong decision is made, then somebody will lose their money, and it takes a long time to go through the review processes and get that money back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThis legislation is very complicated. I am particularly lucky to have in my electorate office wonderful staff, who do understand a lot about the supported living payment, the emergency benefit, the accommodation supplement, disability allowances, and New Zealand Superannuation with a non-qualified partner\u2014all the things that this bill applies to. But it\u2019s very complicated and a lot of people need help with it. So if a computer which has a biased algorithm decides to cancel their payment, that could lead to very real, terrible consequences, and this Government and those members who have been heckling throughout this should take some note on that and be prepared for a lot of questions on these issues in the committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EBut it should not be passed today. This needs proper consideration by a select committee about what those safeguards should be on this new technology. So I appeal to the Government members and the Leader of the House to do just that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb56a9096bde45a79a3a2b8dace2fd29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb56a9096bde45a79a3a2b8dace2fd29\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E The bill establishes a time-bound, structured approach to updating beneficiaries\u2019 circumstances every 52 weeks. This ensures that the beneficiaries receive the support they genuinely need. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00220f0c4eaf59e14519b39547ca693f0ff3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f0c4eaf59e14519b39547ca693f0ff3\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u0022a571a973e77145f3951d27e9be49e2ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a571a973e77145f3951d27e9be49e2ab\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would just like to talk through what I think is a really problematic piece of lawmaking, for a number of reasons. I\u2019ve caught the tail end of the contribution from my colleague the Hon Rachel Brooking and she has talked about some of the process issues and the impacts of the automation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EIn fact, the whole bill is\u2014and credit to the officials for working, obviously, under great speed, but it is like the opposite of a treasure hunt, trying to find the proper parts of the legislation in a clear way that lead us to understand what\u2019s happening, and I have drawn the conclusion, having gone through it very carefully in the last few hours, that the accommodation supplement conversation and debate we had yesterday is a red herring. It\u2019s a distraction because the real issue at stake here is that the Social Security (Mandatory Reviews) Amendment Bill is far broader, and the supplementary analysis report that was looked at yesterday does not really relate to this. In fact, there is only a tiny footnote that says that the changes to the boarding allowances are dealt with in that supplementary paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d like this House to note that the actual regulatory impact statement (RIS) which responds to this legislation has not even really been interrogated, and we have a whole stack of questions. I\u2019ll give you some examples of them. When it comes to the Ministry of Social Development (MSD), for example, the RIS has said that MSD is already using artificial intelligence for discretionary payments, but it also says, on page 3, that \u201Cit is possible for the use of ADM to entrench existing inequities in the welfare system as these can be built into the collection data.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThen we have the fact that there are two options considered by MSD. The third one is redacted, and we don\u2019t even see why. It\u2019s under legal privilege, on page 8, using section 9(2)(h) of the Official Information Act, and then it just says, \u201CFor this reason, we have discounted this option.\u201D Well, we\u2019d really like to know what that\u2019s about, because, presumably, if it\u2019s legal advice, it\u2019s about the rights and entitlements of people, and it probably has New Zealand Bill of Rights Act (BORA) implications. So I\u2019m wondering if the other option that they did land on is right on the cusp, and whether there has been a BORA report done and what they\u2019ve got to say about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EAlso, it just seems crazy that 332,000 reviews would be done each year, and the RIS says very openly, on page 12, that would cost\u2014it adds up to about $13 million, and there\u2019s no way they could make this happen with the current staff and that\u2019s why they need the technology. Well, did they consider maybe keeping the current staff or employing some more people into the Public Service for this stupid rule, because it\u2019s awfully inefficient. Instead, they are looking at bringing in this very dodgy technology which is dehumanising and which doesn\u2019t have appeal rights. It\u2019s only going to be reviewed\u2014according to the RIS, on page 14\u2014every three years, so in the first few months, at least, one would expect there would be some review of the technology. It could be going completely wrong, and they do not need to review it till then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EWe see limitations and constraints on analysis, and we can go into that in the committee stage. They, basically, admit they \u201Chave not explored other possible wider policy changes or improvements due to operational and funding constraints.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThen we have all these population groups under these much broader benefits\u2014more than just the accommodation supplement\u2014which are impacted. So we\u2019ve got child disability allowance, orphan\u2019s benefit, unsupported child\u2019s benefit, youth payment, young parent payment, childcare assistance, New Zealand Superannuation, veteran\u2019s pension, and childcare assistance programme payments. Now, that is finally explicit in new section 310C(6) in clause 4, but before that it is an absolute rabbit warren of trying to go through the legislation to determine whether things are being made by regulation or whether they\u2019re actually being made in primary legislation\u2014and we\u2019ll be asking about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThen, when we look at the populations that have been impacted, very clearly around M\u0101ori, it says, on page 6, that it \u201Cmay have a greater impact on M\u0101ori given they are overrepresented in the benefit population.\u201D It has real issues about dealing with the Treaty clauses, which we\u2019ll interrogate. It talks about Pacific peoples and says that the changes may have disproportionate impact. It talks about older people, and it says that \u201CIt may create confusion for these clients\u201D. Disabled people: mandatory reviews will now include reviewing approximately 100,000 supported living payments and 125,000 people previously\u2014so lots to interrogate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u0022aee4434d945e4064b617076952ae553a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aee4434d945e4064b617076952ae553a\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u002277ae0898f56f4de6b13dc5550e97b902\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277ae0898f56f4de6b13dc5550e97b902\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I don\u2019t know what was going on out there, but I would like to pick up on the comments of my colleague Ingrid Leary, who\u2019s just spoken. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EIf you have a look at the regulatory impact statement (RIS) in this bill, there are large parts blanked out. I haven\u2019t seen before a problem definition with a part of the problem definition blanked out. So it\u2019s actually very unsettling as to what the problem is that has been put to the people who have prepared this RIS. I can\u2019t tell. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI can tell what part of the problem is and so I\u2019d like to focus on the bits that I can tell you about. I can look at the problem definition as far as it relates to the boarder payments, but the Opposition will be asking questions and interrogating on the bits of this document that are blanked out. Particularly because there is a use in this legislation of automated decision-making, and some of the blanked-out pieces are in parts where that\u2019s an issue. So, for example, there is a part on page 4 of the regulatory impact statement which talks about \u201CWhat is the policy problem or opportunity?\u201D We hear about the boarders\u2019 initiative and getting money off people and finding out whether they have boarders. But then in paragraph 6, we have nothing. We have a blank out. And then we talk about the use of automated decision-making as necessary to collect information and review people\u2019s specific benefits to implement the boarders\u2019 contribution. So we\u2019re allowed to know that; we\u2019re just not allowed to know what else is in there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to focus on the part I am concerned about, because I know about it at this point. This is a piece of legislation that is not as Paulo Garcia suggested it was. It is not for those purposes. What we know about the purpose is it\u2019s to gather information, to take note of it, and to stop people being able to claim a benefit to a certain extent if they have a boarder. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo I go back to the example I used in the last bill where a woman, a solo mother in the 1990s, was able to claim for that boarder. Now that solo mother\u2014who may be working, and I want to concentrate on someone who\u2019s working because they\u2019re one of the groups captured\u2014if that person is working, if they\u2019re a caregiver and they\u2019re working now but their pay is so low that it is not possible for them to make ends meet, a decision we\u2019ve taken is to allow people to take in a boarder. That\u2019s being changed today. As a result, the Government wants to implement this and they\u2019re bringing in this legislation to do that, to implement it. So they are bringing in a very wide net of people, including that woman I\u2019m talking about. She wouldn\u2019t have had to go in to see the Ministry of Social Development before. She now will have to go in every 12 months and she will have to disclose whether she has a boarder. And if she does, next year she will lose $98, if she\u2019s got one boarder, from her payments every week; it will make that much of a difference to her. That\u2019s what this is to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EIt was such a big amount of people that were covered, and the amount of people is\u2014I was looking at the figures before. I\u2019ll give them in the next speech, but I think it\u2019s 87,000 people who are on accommodation supplements\u2014just low-paid New Zealanders who are just getting that are 87,000 people. They will now have to do that. So because it was so hard, automated decision-making was seen as the most efficient tool. Now, that means it still costs money. It\u2019s about $6 million to bring that in. It\u2019s an expansion of a scheme that was supposed to be really just connected with parental child support, because there needed to be a connection between information. So that is what is going on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWhat the RIS says about that\u2014the regulatory impact statement\u2014is that people are really suspicious of automated systems. There is a good reason for that. We\u2019re going through a time of change, and it was interesting that the woman who\u2019s against vaccines in the New Zealand First Party told us we have to move with the times and we shouldn\u2019t be suspicious of these things. Actually, I agree; we shouldn\u2019t be totally suspicious of these things. Where necessary, we should look at automation. But this automation is something where we need to bring the public with us. If we\u2019d wanted to bring the public with us, we would have put this to a select committee so that it could be discussed, so people could bring their fears and concerns, and we have not heard from those people today. We don\u2019t know. In a normal second reading speech, I would be giving that speech with the submissions of the people who came to the select committee. I can\u2019t offer the views of many of those people that would come, including the ones who would have been concerned about an automated decision-making system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThose processes that we have in this House are so valuable, because we\u2019re one of the few democracies where people can actually touch and affect us in the way that is most appropriate. We have other democracies struggling because they\u2019re so giant that people can never get near the actual impact in the Parliament. It doesn\u2019t make any difference. But here, one of the things I\u2019m absolutely proudest of is that we have select committees where if someone\u2014if an 11-year-old or a solo mother or the people who are helping on the front line have a problem with the legislation, they come and they tell us. I have been there when we have listened to them and we\u2019ve gone, \u201CYeah, fair enough point. You\u2019ve got it right.\u201D And it\u2019s meant that people haven\u2019t been cycling into conspiracy theories in the same way because they\u2019re not disconnected. It\u2019s really, really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo when we bring in things like automated decision-making and when the RIS itself talks about people not necessarily\u2014\u201Cwe are assuming social licence\u201D is what it says. There\u2019s an assumption of social licence. There has been no public consultation. That\u2019s an alarm bell we should be listening to. We should be listening to the people who are impacted by this and who are worried about it, because we are expanding the net. We are saying that there are a whole lot more people we\u2019re going to gather that information from, and then we\u2019re going to automate our decisions in response\u2014that we\u2019re doing it because it saves money, because it\u2019s more efficient. It\u2019s easy to tell ourselves a fairytale about it being good for them. It\u2019s really important we put that up to the test of what people think, of what we actually say our rationalisation is. It doesn\u2019t mean we shouldn\u2019t do these things, but we have to bring people with us or we get terribly reactive results.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo my suggestion is that this actually go before a select committee. That\u2019s my suggestion. My suggestion is this is not the kind of thing that you put through urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f531dc84ecb45b2a80482b51ee40a73\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: This is the second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271d2bc5ffad64d16a6a7b3973951595c\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: I want to finally talk\u2014it is the second reading. I want to talk about some of the groups who would have made submissions at the select committee. We would have heard from people who are part of the elderly. The elderly in this situation: 125,000 people are on not only on the super but on disability or on accommodation supplements. They would have been able to tell us what they thought today, and we would\u2019ve been able to reflect that back, but that\u2019s been cut from our capacity. We would have heard from the disabled. We would have heard from a group of the 100,000 people who are on supported living. They are not people you need to review because they\u2019re going to suddenly change their circumstances. They\u2019re actually in a pretty stable situation. We\u2019ve recognised they need support and it\u2019s being given to them, but they\u2019re going to be in there. We would have heard from them, but we don\u2019t get to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EOne of the groups that I have tried to emphasise in this debate is the low paid. We would have heard from the low paid, the ones who are paying taxes, who are on the minimum wages, who did the jobs that we needed done when we were locked down, when we were facing a pandemic. They did pretty scary jobs sometimes. Those are the people who we would have heard from because they are the people on accommodation supplements. They are the people who need that support because we have failed to provide high-paying work. That\u2019s actually the reality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u002217633c05271c483da1f08ab36f731457\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217633c05271c483da1f08ab36f731457\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002285add10fed5d43d382a1f28435487dba\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Social Security (Mandatory Reviews) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000519\u0022\u003EBill read a second time. \u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6c5e8efd89440c3bae2fc95cc09acaf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6c5e8efd89440c3bae2fc95cc09acaf\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is set down for committee stage immediately. As the time has come for me to leave the Chair, I declare that when House sitting resumes, the House will go into committee for consideration of the Social Security (Mandatory Reviews) Amendment Bill. The sitting is suspended until 2 p.m. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 1.03 p.m. to 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ba33b6baf6854e24a67328f1c22508df\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022878d0837f5894781b9b24badb88e6f88\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to principal Act \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00229f23ffe009d24423aaa8507566635b1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f23ffe009d24423aaa8507566635b1c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Social Security (Mandatory Reviews) Amendment Bill, but before I take a call, I just want to plant a seed with members. We had a number of points of order about grouping and selection of amendments during consideration of the last bill, and we have a similar number of amendments for the current bill, so I just want to clarify the approach we are going to take for the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EUsually, all amendments that are in order are put to the committee to be voted on. The Standing Orders give the Chairperson the ability to put a single question to the committee on multiple related amendments\u2014known as \u201Cgrouping\u201D\u2014or to select the limited number of amendments from a group of amendments that are in the same substance to test the willingness of the committee to make amendments of that nature\u2014known as \u201Cselecting\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThere is a high bar for use of either approach. Doing so deprives the committee of the opportunity to make a specific decision in respect of separate, in-order amendments. To meet this high bar, the Chairperson considers both the total number of related amendments and the extent to which they are related or the same in substance. The procedures were developed in the context of significantly large volumes of amendments. There is no magic number after which grouping or selecting is used, but we are some ways away from the high bar being met.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe intent of the grouping and selecting procedures was, in part, to incentivise the development of coherent alternative proposals by members and to support the effective consideration of bills in committee. The bar for grouping and selecting amendments on bills introduced and being passed through all stages under urgency is higher, given that urgency is generally less conducive to these aims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EI am not ruling that no amendments will be grouped or selected today, but I wish to remind the committee that, like relevance, the Chairperson is the sole judge of grouping or selecting amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EWe come first to the debate on Part 1. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00227d31fdd912144c0ba971b01bbf3200dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d31fdd912144c0ba971b01bbf3200dc\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I thought it would be useful for the committee just to give a bit of an outline in terms of this particular bill and just remind the committee and those who are watching this debate that many New Zealanders would think that it is already the norm that there is a review on an annual basis of entitlements. It\u2019s not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EOne of the challenges that those who receive support often experience\u2014and it\u2019s an issue that\u2019s been raised across the House\u2014is the fact that entitlements might not be paid correctly. They might be underpaid, or they might be overpaid. If they\u2019re underpaid, that\u2019s clearly a problem that this bill will address. Equally, if they\u2019re overpaid, that creates a problem as well, because it then generates a debt for the beneficiary, which leads to considerable stress. If that overpayment is a mistake by the Ministry of Social Development, it is written off, but if it is a circumstance that hasn\u2019t been declared and should have been declared by the person on benefit, then it creates a debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThis mandatory review process just, basically, makes sure that there\u2019s an annual process where it is support that doesn\u2019t expire\u2014the person receiving the benefit is able to check in. It\u2019s not an onerous process. It can be done online, it can be over the phone, it can be done in person, the person receiving the benefit can fill in a form and exchange it by post\u2014you name it. So it\u2019s very straightforward, but we want to ensure that people are being paid accurately. They have the opportunity to check in once a year, and it\u2019s pretty straightforward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThis also enables the boarders\u2019 contribution legislation that we passed earlier. So, again, we have accurate circumstances and accurate entitlement to support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022cdc5227ad49845659799712434056340\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cdc5227ad49845659799712434056340\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Just a reminder that this is Part 1: this is the debate on clauses 4 and 5, \u201CAmendments to principal Act\u201D. The question is that Part 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022 data-id=\u0022cdf59ed2353948e7ad614f11810d2b6f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cdf59ed2353948e7ad614f11810d2b6f\u0022\u003EBENJAMIN DOYLE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m pleased to be speaking to this bill, in Part 1\u2014particularly I\u2019m looking at clause 4. It\u2019s really lovely that we did actually get a regulatory impact statement (RIS), because this bill is being taken through all stages under urgency, which means we don\u2019t get the regular opportunity to review this in select committee where we would be able to air out and question elements of this policy and listen to members of our communities who have concerns and feedback, which is often actually very productive. So I\u2019m going to attempt, as best as possible in the incredibly rushed process that this urgency is demanding, to reflect on and bring those voices here for the Minister for Social Development and Employment to consider.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003EI want to speak specifically to the introduction of annual reviews over a 52-week period, which is mandatory. We see in the regulatory impact statement, on page 6 specifically, that point 15 raises concerns around how M\u0101ori will be disproportionately affected. This is, of course, because M\u0101ori are disproportionately represented in the welfare system, and we know that there are also intersectional and concurrent benefit needs in this community which see M\u0101ori people needing to gain assistance through multiple avenues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003ESo if we are introducing a 52-week review period, I\u2019m concerned that M\u0101ori will be having multiple benefits reviewed simultaneously, which will increase distress, it will increase unnecessary administrative demands, and it will put extra pressure on communities who are seeking multiple forms of assistance. This seems like an avoidable issue, so I wonder and would like to understand how that will be mitigated. What can the Minister assure will be done to mitigate this kind of compounding pressure that will contribute to mental distress?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003EWe see in the RIS that there is mention of the fact that these compounding and intersectional needs will also affect Pasifika peoples. So I want to understand if there has been any advice also to the Minister from relevant ministries or Ministers\u2014say, for example, Wh\u0101nau Ora or the Ministry for Pacific Peoples. Where are we seeing those considerations taken into account in this bill? We know that M\u0101ori and Pasifika people will be impacted. In fact, we see that the Treaty of Waitangi implications are of concern here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003ESo I want to just understand from the Minister, and I\u2019ll repeat my two main points: how will the Minister mitigate the potential impact on M\u0101ori who are seeking multiple-benefit supports\u2014as is their right\u2014which may impact negatively on their mental wellbeing? The second question, to repeat, was: what advice has the Minister received from relevant ministries in regards to those communities and the intersectional pressures upon them? Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u0022a42bffb60b29463eb6915e94ee83e2cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a42bffb60b29463eb6915e94ee83e2cd\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. This is a really complicated bill and, as has been said, we are in urgency and we have not had a select committee stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec25a5d06ff5474baae6e632a17e08cc\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s pretty simple, actually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a943f650f5d0454399cb9b8d26c7acdb\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY\u003C/span\u003E: Members opposite may laugh, but, actually, when we are looking at how to get around the amendments it involves going through multiple pieces of earlier legislation and also multiple subsections within this bill, as well, and into regulations. Now, these are all things that we will be asking a lot of questions about, but I would like, first, to invite the committee to consider a framework where we can just look sort of globally at what\u2019s happened here and then come down as myself and my colleagues will go step by step through the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EWhat we have seen\u2014for those who are watching at home and picking up on this\u2014is really quite sinister, in my view, because things have been done back to front. Yesterday, we were told there was going to be a bill that would change some accommodation allowances because of what was called \u201Cdouble-dipping\u201D, even though it was both a person with a tenancy or another boarder in their house claiming, so it wasn\u2019t anyone individually double-dipping. But we were told, then, that this bill today was going to be the enabling legislation for that, and all the notes and things, including even the regulatory impact statement (RIS), purport to be really looking at just that enabling power of the bill that went through yesterday. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EBut, as we have gone through this bill in great detail today, what we\u2019ve seen is something far more sinister, which is amendments to the Social Security Act which, crucially, not only require mandated 52-week reviews on a series of benefits that have not been specified\u2014in fact, only the exemptions are specified, and it\u2019s very, very difficult to ascertain what they are and whether regulatory powers apply both to the making of benefits or the changing of those benefits, which has questions\u2014but also, crucially, in new section 310C(4), inserted by clause 4, there is a new phrase that says, \u201CIf the beneficiary fails to comply with a requirement under this section, MSD must suspend,\u201D and then it goes on to say their benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really difficult to find what day applies because that relates to subsection (1) and subsection (4) of new section 310C, which talk about the end of the day before the relevant deadline, and we will be having questions about that because we would like to know, actually, if the Minister herself can apply the legislation in a meaningful way so that she has clarity. One of the tests in jurisprudence is that law must be fair and clear, and it\u2019s pretty difficult to find your way around this one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard in the first readings from the Government members\u2014and certainly the Government\u2019s statement\u2014that this is a facilitator to try to make sure that there is clarity and certainty about what entitlements people are getting. But, actually, when you look at the legislation in here, it\u2019s a very punitive bill. We\u2019ve seen additional words\u2014and we will interrogate this again\u2014where it not only talks about, say, in a subsection A, that this is about ensuring people get their entitlements but, in a subsection B, making sure they don\u2019t get their entitlements if they\u2019re not entitled to them. Now, the fact that the Government has bothered to articulate the bill in this way, I think, shows a clear intent that this is, in our view, beneficiary bashing. There\u2019s probably a better legal word for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EWe have not had submissions. We have had commentary over the last 24 hours, because this is all being very rushed, from the Salvation Army and also from the Law Society. I\u2019ll just quote from the Salvation Army, which says, \u201CThe bill will make things a lot worse for those we support, it will push a lot more people into poverty. It will create a lot more barriers and difficulties for those we support to be able to access the help \u2026 they need.\u201D, and the Law Society says it \u201Craises significant concern about how the use of automated systems will apply where the sanctions provisions involve some form of evaluative judgement, for example those relating to money management and community work.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESo there\u2019s two clear parts to this. As I say, we do not want to filibuster today, but I do want to point out that the RIS that relates to this was not really referenced yesterday. Yesterday, we looked at the supplementary regulatory impact statement because that pertained to the accommodation supplement. The RIS on this actually says in a footnote, and I can allude to it later, that the accommodation supplement does not apply\u2014I think it\u2019s on page 4\u2014because that will come at a later stage. So we have not even had a chance to ventilate the concerns that are in the primary RIS, which are really not about the accommodation supplement at all but much more about these other benefits which are difficult to find out what they are, which have very strong punitive elements to them and also have an automated element to them which is really concerning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESo what we would like to do as we go through is ask questions, particularly when we see that there are redacted parts of the RIS as well. So, for example, I can refer the Minister to the fact that MSD actually says it already uses artificial intelligence (AI) for discretionary payments, but it does also say in the RIS, on page 3, it\u2019s possible for the use of AI \u201Cto entrench existing inequalities in the welfare system as these can be built into the data collection.\u201D Now, the previous speaker, Benjamin Doyle, has spoken about M\u0101ori communities, very briefly, and Pasifika, but there is a lot more to be said about that and a lot more questions. It would be good to get the specific wording from the RIS about what it says, because it\u2019s pretty damning, and we will go into that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI won\u2019t take up too much time. I want to be really clear with you, Mr Chair, that as we go through, we will be offering new material. But we do want to make sure that every single bit of this bill that we hold ourselves to as parliamentarians and are accountable for, that we get to query it. We do not want to see truncated debate. So you have our word we won\u2019t filibuster, but if we can have the opportunity, on behalf of New Zealanders, who have not had a select committee phase, to interrogate this properly, I think we can get through this afternoon in a productive way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc587b4a80104740bca43b9bcaf4747b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc587b4a80104740bca43b9bcaf4747b\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m not going to repeat things that I\u2019ve said in my speeches earlier today, but there\u2019s some clear misunderstanding about what this bill does and what it doesn\u2019t do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EWhat it doesn\u2019t do is touch eligibility for things like the jobseeker benefit, the sole parent support. It doesn\u2019t require additional medical certificates around eligibility. It was very clear, and I\u2019m really pleased, actually, to see that one of the Labour members that spoke in an earlier reading clearly understood that. Anybody who receives a benefit in supplementary assistance is required at all times to advise the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) of a change of circumstances. Not everybody does that, so this is really just a catch-all in terms of the 52 weeks, to ensure that the circumstances that MSD have on record are accurate. The example that I did give in an earlier speech was, for example, someone who\u2019s receiving the disability allowance. As part of that review, at 52 weeks it may well come to light that they have additional needs that are not being factored into the disability allowance that they\u2019re getting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really pleased to hear that the Opposition don\u2019t want to filibuster, because, in many cases, there will be those who receive benefits who will get an increase of support as a result of this review. I want to make the point very clearly\u2014given the exclusion of jobseeker, for example\u2014that I\u2019m not going to go into the ins and outs of different population groups. I know parties will have some fascination around that, but, as members will know, unfortunately, in areas like the jobseeker benefit, population groups are significantly, disproportionately affected and that is a matter of fact\u2014it\u2019s not a matter of debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb81b4887eff42c4a4f6ff19555b13b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb81b4887eff42c4a4f6ff19555b13b3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the next call, just to help to clarify: it would be helpful for the committee if members did refer to the clauses and the sections that they\u2019re referring to\u2014that is incredibly helpful. It helps us to track and helps us to move through the bill in a methodical way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022444376e72bbb47799a801fa13d51b534\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022444376e72bbb47799a801fa13d51b534\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you so much, Mr Chair. I wanted to start off by referencing clause 4. This is quite a long clause. There\u2019s quite a bit to unpack here. No matter how many times the Minister says that this is a simple bill\u2014blah, blah, blah\u2014the fact of the matter is if she thought it was so simple, she should have allowed for it to have scrutiny. So we\u2019re here; we could have asked those questions in the select committee period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI want to ask about new section 310C, \u201CInformation for mandatory reviews of specified benefits\u201D, particularly subsection (3). This is on line 35 onwards of page 3. It talks about\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CIf, in the case of a mandatory review of a specified benefit for the purpose set out in section 310B(2), the beneficiary contacts MSD before the specified deadline, MSD may extend the time allowed under subsection (1) by up to 20 working days if MSD\u201D\u2014and this is the part that I particularly want to scrutinise\u2014\u201Cis satisfied with the beneficiary has\u201D\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201Cgood and sufficient reason for not being able to provide the information, or answer the questions,\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI do have a few questions specifically to this provision as to whether the ministry has already started developing any guidelines as to what these so-called good and sufficient reasons would be. We do see that \u201Cgood and sufficient reason\u201D is used in other parts of the legislation for other types of obligations in relation to benefit sanctions, so I wonder whether they\u2019re just going to be copy-pasting those into this for the purpose of staff being able to interpret what \u201Cgood and sufficient reason\u201D actually means. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI also was interested to ask, if those guidelines are not developed yet for staff, what assurances the Minister will give us in terms of who the Minister will consult with to develop these guidelines, particularly because we have the language in this provision that says also \u201Canswer the question, in the specified way by the specified deadline.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ENow, in terms of being able to answer questions that could, basically, result in you losing your benefit if not done adequately, there are additional barriers that specific groups would see. I know that she, in her previous answer\u2014I thought quite dismissively and, in fact, quite arrogantly\u2014said we have a fascination with certain population groups. We\u2019re not sorry for caring about some of the most disproportionately impacted groups in this bill. I know we\u2019re interested about the impacts of this bill on disabled people, but I did want to ask specifically in this provision how she might take into account disabled people\u2019s different needs when it comes to determining whether somebody has answered the questions in a way that is to the satisfaction of the Ministry of Social Development (MSD). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s one group. The other group that I\u2019m interested in, in terms of seeking assurance from the Minister around how this provision will work in practice, is people with English as a second language, in terms of their engagement. If the Minister and the ministry haven\u2019t already engaged with, for example, the Ministry for Ethnic Communities, what engagement, if any, can she commit that she will have to make sure that people with English as a second language are not disadvantaged and more at risk of not being able to comply with this and meet the \u201Cgood and sufficient reason\u201D by MSD?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ESpecific to this provision, I am also interested\u2014and, again, this is the kind of stuff that we could have unpacked at the select committee stage\u2014in relation to any potential fiscal implications on the need for interpreters that are used by MSD clients in relation to MSD obligations and requirements that may be needed as a result of adding this additional requirement. So, for example, we know that, in theory, people can access an interpreter in order to engage with MSD, but that has fiscal implications, staffing implication, and resources implications. Has MSD modelled the potential additional needs of interpreters in relation to this provision; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ESo just to recap: I\u2019m interested in whether she\u2019s developed the guidelines; if not, who she\u2019s going to commit to consulting. Further to that, how will she ensure that disabled people and people with English as a second language are adequately considered in this, and the fiscal and resource implications of potential increased need for interpreters as a result of this very, very specific provision found in clause 4, in new section 310C? Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002217d906423f9d4845a64d29ca40f10511\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217d906423f9d4845a64d29ca40f10511\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Let me just talk through a few of those in Part 1, clause 4. I\u2019ll also address clause 5, because it is relevant. The Ministry of Social Development\u2019s (MSD\u2019s) front-line staff interact with people with disabilities on a daily basis and with those who have English as a second language. As I outlined in my initial comments, in the way in which this annual review is undertaken, there are a raft of ways to be able to do this. That\u2019s very much designed at being very client-centric, and so it is normal business and interaction for MSD staff to be flexible in the way that they work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EIn terms of good and sufficient reasons, this is a well-traversed topic, again, that MSD are well used to, and I would point the member to new section 310E. The regulations will have very clear circumstances in which that is not a requirement. Some of those, for example, are if the client\u2019s in residential disability care, if they\u2019re in hospital for more than 13 weeks, and if they live in, or are present in, and cannot reasonably leave an area in respect of which there is an emergency in place. Those are some of the examples that will be set out in regulations, to make it clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe other thing I would say in terms of operationalising this policy through the use of automated decision-making, for example\u2014and I was very clear about the three times in which that would be used. For example, it is the automated sending-out to clients or beneficiaries that their review is due. That actually removes staff time and it makes it more efficient, so it means that the front-line staff can actually have greater interactions where it counts. As I said before, whether it\u2019s a disability allowance or other areas of support, it may well lead to an area where a client\u2019s been underpaid, and I would have thought the Opposition would be celebrating the fact that we will have more accurate payments and people will get what they\u2019re entitled to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022f813fe06bdaf45aa8667f04c8ad9793a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f813fe06bdaf45aa8667f04c8ad9793a\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I will be interested in clause 5. I note no questions have been asked about clause 5 yet, and we definitely want to get there, but we\u2019re trying to do this in a methodical way where we go through clause 4 first. So I\u2019m not going to ask the questions I\u2019ve got about clause 5 yet, but I would like to take another call, because it is a very serious issue. So what I\u2019d like the Minister for Social Development and Employment to focus on is clause 4 at the moment, and answering our questions with regard to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ENow, if I have a look at the new subpart 3A, which is being put into clause 4, and go to the first section of that, we get an indication that the benefits that are being affected are benefits designated by regulation. If I go further through clause 4, I can see the kinds of benefits that are not\u2014that\u2019s at new section 310C(6) on page 4. I appreciate that things change and people want to give themselves flexibility, but what I don\u2019t know from this is what benefits are within scope. It\u2019s not like we\u2019ve got a principle here we can follow. So I want to know: what\u2019s different about the benefits that are excluded from everything else and what happens with the width of what is going on here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo there is no attempt to give us a list of benefits that are within scope at the present time. I can see some commonality in some of the benefits that are excluded. Some of them are for children. So I presume that they don\u2019t have boarders if they\u2019re children. But some are not in that situation. As I\u2019ve raised before, we have got people who have been on accommodation supplements in this situation, so they\u2019re working people in our country who would normally do what they like with their property. And they have been included in this group, from what we can see. But where is the list and why did we not try and develop a principle that applied? The concern raised by my friend Ingrid Leary is that we\u2019re really concerned there may be some other purposes to this bill and it might be a lot wider than just simply looking at the boarding situation. So the actual number of benefits that are included in this requirement seems to be at the whim of regulations. I\u2019d like to know more about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI want to link that in with my concerns I\u2019ve got over the redactions in the regulatory impact statement. The one that really most alarms me is a redaction that leads me to this kind of scrutiny and worry. That is the one at page 4 and it is paragraph 6, where the heading is: \u201CWhat is the policy problem or opportunity?\u201D We\u2019ve been given two paragraphs, and then we have a redaction. I, for the life of me, can\u2019t think what it would be that would need to be redacted, unless there was some other opportunity that wasn\u2019t being laid out, and I don\u2019t see that as being appropriately redacted. So I would like the assurance of the Minister that there isn\u2019t some wider or other purpose that is disclosed in that redaction, because the same thing happens at page 1 of the regulatory impact statement in the problem definition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI expressed my concern in my speech that to actually redact the purpose is a little bit unusual, and it\u2019s a bit of a concern. I think one of the things that any reasonable Opposition needs to know is what is the purpose\u2014the full purpose, not part of the purpose; the whole purpose. Otherwise we really are going to worry, and so should the public. Because, if there is an extreme purpose or there is a different purpose, I think that\u2019s part of our job to know, and it certainly doesn\u2019t fit with any kind of privilege that I understand would allow redaction. So can I understand that\u2014particularly because I\u2019m concerned about the width of the amount of benefits that might be subject to this process in the future. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00220ae3631667b94dda94c5ae7e675e0d89\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ae3631667b94dda94c5ae7e675e0d89\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I would direct the member Helen White to the bill and the explanatory note, which clearly states the objectives of the bill, and on page 2 the list that is included in the mandatory reviews.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022 data-id=\u002207c0acf75d634a38be972afc4194b23b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207c0acf75d634a38be972afc4194b23b\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I am going to be speaking to Part 1, clause 4, which is where the introductions to the mandatory reviews are. I am the spokesperson for disabled people for the Greens, and I take that role really seriously. I know that it is my job to uplift the voices of those people who were not able to participate in a select committee process because we are rushing this through under urgency. This morning, I have had emails from people in that disabled community, and they have asked me to ask specific questions, because they are really worried about this bill and what it means for them, and they really want to have clarity. Because they didn\u2019t get to have a chance to have their say, to ask these questions, in the select committee process\u2014I know the Minister for Social Development and Employment knows that one of the biggest things that they say is \u201CNothing about us without us.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EIn the regulatory impact statement, there is a section here on page 7, which is about the population groups that it impacts, and there\u2019s a whole section here for disabled people. One of the questions that we got emailed today was asking what advice the Minister sought about the effects this legislation will have on disabled people. In this page 7 of the regulatory impact statement, and paragraph 23, I\u2019m really curious to know, here where it says, \u201CTo mitigate this, we are proposing the ability for MSD to allow appropriate exceptions, extensions and exemptions to clients who are not able to respond to these mandatory reviews due to their circumstances. This ability will ensure that clients are not negatively impacted due to no fault of their own.\u201D\u2014I would like to ask the Minister: what work has been done, what advice has been sought to ensure that those appropriate exceptions and extensions and exemptions to disabled clients have been taken into account in this piece of legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EWhen I\u2019m looking at clause 4 here, new section 310D, \u201CMSD must notify or advise beneficiaries\u201D\u2014if we move down to new subsection (2)(a)(iii), it is concerning here that it says \u201Cunless an exception, exemption, or extension applies, the beneficiary\u2019s benefit will be suspended if the beneficiary fails to provide the information by the deadline specified in section 310C(1) or (2) or the date specified in an extension\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003ESo, just to recap there, I really would love the Minister to engage with these questions that are coming from the disabled community, because they didn\u2019t get a chance to have their time in select committee, about what advice the Minister has sought and what has been put into this legislation that protects disabled people from being impacted negatively due to no fault of their own. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9b891933cca40348a27126a2cc264f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9b891933cca40348a27126a2cc264f5\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I went through that\u2014quite at length\u2014in my answer to a previous question, and I don\u2019t want members opposite me to misrepresent what I\u2019ve said. I was very careful about explaining that the Ministry of Social Development are well used to working with people with disabilities, and the way the mandatory review has been set up with a range of ways that they can engage in that process. I\u2019ve also already said about how the exemptions will be stated in regulations, so I am not going to repeat myself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00228ba7fd5464cb4615b117ea966b4ec9ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ba7fd5464cb4615b117ea966b4ec9ca\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I just wanted to add to some of the k\u014Drero that I\u2019ve been putting through on this bill, particularly in terms of the punitive strategy that this Government has deployed, which has really upset many of our people out there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ESo, given that position, I\u2019ve put in an amendment that I think will help the Minister for Social Development and Employment in terms of giving people time to comply, which we think wouldn\u2019t add too much of a problem. I\u2019m looking at clause 4, inserting new subpart 3A, section 310C(4): \u201CIf the beneficiary fails to comply with a requirement under this section, MSD must suspend,\u201D. What we\u2019re wanting to do here is insert a 30-day time frame for the Minister to consider. Why wouldn\u2019t she consider that? As per some of my previous contributions on the bill, it\u2019s about providing a reasonable time frame, for clients to comply, and it ensures that we don\u2019t have wh\u0101nau on the streets. I mean, it\u2019s pretty simple, really. Why wouldn\u2019t you just give them a bit of space, given all the complexities that wh\u0101nau are going through, particularly in our disabled community? And it\u2019s already been mentioned\u2014M\u0101ori communities and the disparities, and I will get onto that a little bit later on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EBut I\u2019d like the Minister to explain how not having a reasonable time frame will not lead to more families, solo mums, and job seekers on the streets. Also to the Minister: what assessment has she considered on the potential of a spike in homelessness, particularly in Auckland, and the impact on young people, on rangatahi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI would have thought that this type of amendment would be something that the Government would look at. Because, again, it just gives the people at ground level the space and the time that is needed\u2014so it\u2019s a serious amendment\u2014rather than just come in with a big hammer and take people out, and all of a sudden, we have wh\u0101nau in stress. We don\u2019t want to keep seeing families or people out on the street. So why would you not consider a time frame, a more comfortable time frame, so people can manage their lives, get their wh\u0101nau together, and get the right paperwork in? It\u2019s an amendment I\u2019d like the Minister and Government to consider. Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022cec852a5560d4e5db0c76f4c957ff2da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cec852a5560d4e5db0c76f4c957ff2da\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I think it would be useful just to remind the committee that in these areas of assistance, there is already a requirement for someone who\u2019s receiving support to advise the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) of a change of circumstances. So as soon as there\u2019s a change of circumstances, there is a requirement\u2014and I\u2019m sure the member knows that\u2014to advise MSD of a change of circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI accept that not everybody does that when the circumstances change. So the mandatory review, if you like, is a fall-back, because what we don\u2019t want to do is see people who haven\u2019t advised a change of circumstances that affects their eligibility that then leads to an overpayment\u2014an overpayment over many, many, many months is what currently occurs and leads people into significant levels of debt to MSD. When we talk about the things that cause stress to clients of MSD, that is one of the highest. So part of what this review process will do is catch those problems early and ensure that there are not difficulties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EGoing back to the question of disabled people, I can quite proudly say that I\u2019ve consulted extensively with the Minister for Disability Issues around this policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd279a8554f044919e4fcebb40e74664\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd279a8554f044919e4fcebb40e74664\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. The Minister for Social Development and Employment, the Hon Louise Upston, has said repeatedly that this is a simple bill, and I\u2019m assuming that\u2019s why it\u2019s being rushed through all stages under urgency, but it does have the ability to impact a number of people\u2014I think, off the top of my head, from the regulatory impact statement (RIS), over 300,000 people\u2014in a very punitive way, as well. I appreciate that the Minister wants to focus on the fact that people might be overpaid or they might have a change in their circumstances that mean that they get extra support\u2014I take the Minister\u2019s point there\u2014but the flip side is equally true. In 20 working days, someone who doesn\u2019t respond to this now compulsory review could have their benefit completely cut. That is the point that we would like to, I guess, scrutinise, because that is a massive impact on a large number of people, potentially.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EWho are we talking about? If you just look at the supported living payment alone, these are people who are either permanently and severely restricted in their ability to work because of a health condition, injury, or disability, or totally blind. This means that they could have a condition that affects their capacity to work for more than two years, or a life expectancy of less than two years. And people who are on these benefits\u2014on this and the disability allowance, for example\u2014are dependent on this money to be able to meet their needs and their cost of living. So this is important, and that\u2019s why we\u2019re taking the time to scrutinise the impacts of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ELooking at the RIS and the bill itself, I\u2019m also speaking to clause 4, which inserts new subpart 3A of Part 6 into the principal Act, because there is quite a bit in this one particular clause. I would like the Minister to, I guess, give us a little bit more insight into that review process, because, while I take the Minister\u2019s point that there is already a requirement for someone whose circumstances has changed to inform the Ministry of Social Development\u2014I get that\u2014presumably, the Minister has some information that this is not happening, and, therefore, it\u2019s become a mandatory requirement. What is the information that\u2019s being sought? The Minister was quite clear that, for example, for disabled people, they would not have to go through the onerous process of justifying that their disability hasn\u2019t gone away. And that is good. That would have made this a lot worse had that requirement, or that bit, not been in there. But what information is MSD going to be proactively asking for through the process of this review? That\u2019s my first question around the review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI also want a little bit of clarification because between the bill and the RIS, my understanding is that the automated system sends out an email or whatever, informing the client there is a review. The client then has 20 working days to respond. According to the RIS, if the client doesn\u2019t respond to their review, their assistance can be stopped on the review date. So within 20 working days, someone who perhaps hasn\u2019t seen this automated requirement could actually have their benefit cut completely. Is that correct, Minister? I\u2019d like some clarification around that. What information will be required as well?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI would like some clarification around the wording, between the RIS and the bill, around the 52-week provision or the mandatory review in 52 weeks. It is different because, in the RIS, it says, \u201Cat least once every 52 weeks.\u201D Are there then circumstances that the Minister thinks might warrant a review conducted twice within a 52-week period? Is there a possibility that there will be more than one review within this 52-week period? I would like to know that because while the Minister has consulted extensively with herself on this bill as the Minister for Disability Issues, I\u2019d like to know whether she\u2019s actually consulted with those who will be impacted, potentially, by this, the disability communities. I\u2019m sure she\u2019s heard the motto, \u201Cnothing about us without us\u201D. For quite a long time, that was not put in practice with disability communities. There\u2019s a huge amount of anxiety from the community about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve got a few more points that I\u2019d like to get to, and I\u2019d like to finish this as well. So I would like to know: what consultation, if any, has happened with disabled people, with people on the disability allowance and receiving the supported living payment, on the potential impact to them as a result of this legislative change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI do also want to point out\u2014I\u2019ve made quick mention of it, but: has the Minister heard, from disabled people, the anxiety around even the current provision of a 52-week review? Now, I\u2019ll draw the Minister\u2019s attention to some of the submissions. I know CCS Disability Action, for example, put a submission in. It is to a different bill, the Social Security Amendment Bill, but that was when jobseeker reviews were going from 52 weeks to 26 weeks, and, overwhelmingly, the response or the submissions to that was that it was unfair but that even 52 weeks caused a huge amount of anxiety. So while we don\u2019t have a select committee process to tease out the detail of this bill, that is a transferable submission. Has the Minister considered the submissions to that bill that are relevant to this provision, and how then does she justify increasing the anxiety for people who are already feeling a significant amount of stress at the status quo?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe other question that I have around the particular review is of the specified benefits. So it says, in this clause in the bill, that it only relates to specific benefits, and I would like some clarification from the Minister as to why these benefits are in and others aren\u2019t. Is that because this is also related to the previous bill and the requirement is for those receiving these specified benefits to share information around their boarding situations? I see that that\u2019s a significant part of this bill as well. Is there a correlation between that and the specified benefits that are captured in this legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI do also want to get some clarity around the exceptions regime that is in this bill. I note that they are quite specific. It is good that a client in a residential disability care facility or a rest home is in the exceptions part of this bill and will not be subjected to a mandatory review, but it looks to me, from this list, that the bar is incredibly high. So only those in the residential disability care facilities or rest homes, only when there\u2019s a state of local or national emergency where MSD then can\u2019t do what they need to do to carry out this\u2014but who decides the exemptions list? There is also a bit in the bill that says, \u201Cexemptions where MSD can exempt an individual\u201D\u2014so that\u2019s proactive if someone contacts them proactively. Is there any flexibility in this, or does the automation remove that flexibility as well? What flexibility does MSD have to create an exception for someone from this mandatory review? I take it that these are examples in the bill, but are there any other circumstances where an exception can be considered by MSD?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EFinally, and I\u2019ll just end on this, the Minister mentioned that there are\u2014I think she said\u2014\u201Ca raft of ways to undertake the review and for MSD staff to be flexible when they\u2019re dealing with, for example, disabled people or people for whom English may be a second language.\u201D I would like the Minister to share what some of those ways are in terms of flexibility. Again, given the huge amount of correspondence that I\u2019ve been getting\u2014and I know she\u2019s been getting, too, because we\u2019re often copied into the same emails\u2014around that anxiety that disabled people specifically have with MSD already\u2014this compounds that, and I\u2019d like to know what flexibility MSD staff have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00226cef261f6f2d4d3093d4d6e1ee8f58f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226cef261f6f2d4d3093d4d6e1ee8f58f0\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E It might be helpful to go through, again, some of what that mandatory review covers. But just a reminder: every client of the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) has a responsibility upon receipt of financial support from the taxpayers to advise MSD of any change of circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe first thing is that the automated decision-making step or process at the start is purely to notify a client by MyMSD or by post. It\u2019s not a separate system; it\u2019s using their existing systems. So MSD will send notification to the client asking them to confirm the information they hold on them. That information will be totally dependent on their circumstances, but will include things like their income, including their partner\u2019s income, their relationship status, if they have dependent children in their care, boarder or renter information, disability-related costs, and accommodation costs. I\u2019ve gone through the process on ways that they can provide that information so I\u2019m not going to go over that again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EIf a client says to MSD that they need more time to correct that information or provide that information, an extension may be granted. If the client doesn\u2019t respond within the time frame, then MSD will suspend the benefit until they get the information they require, and of course then they\u2019d restart the benefit based on those circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022 data-id=\u002235d93e61459d46dea47c06a83067ba22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235d93e61459d46dea47c06a83067ba22\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, for allowing me to take a call on this bill. I just wanted to ask questions about the regulatory impact statement, and I\u2019m happy to relate it to a specific part of the legislation, which is new section 310A, in clause 4, which is sort of in the 52 weeks section. The regulatory impact statement, on page 11, says that \u201CThis cost could potentially be offset by an estimated $238.302 million in BoRE\u201D\u2014that is, benefits or related expenses\u2014\u201Csavings over the next five years due to approximately an extra 225,000 clients being reviewed.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003ECan the Minister for Social Development and Employment please provide a specific breakdown of that $238 million, because it just seems quite perverse that we\u2019re looking to balance the Budget on the backs of some of the most vulnerable people in the country. This is almost a quarter of a billion dollars. So is that $238 million an upper range? Is that a middle range, or is that the lower range of the situation? We\u2019d really like to see the modelling, including if there are specific breakdowns on the benefit group, and whether that\u2019s the main benefit, the disability benefit, the accommodation supplement, or New Zealand Superannuation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EWe have a right to this information because we would have been getting this information at the select committee. It is necessary for the process of good lawmaking for us to be getting this information. I\u2019ll also give a second reason why the Minister should give this information. This information is out here. We can request it under the Official Information Act. The consequence of us doing that is that we will receive this information in 20, or 40, or however many working days. That will generate its own media story. It will probably be quite a bad one. If the Minister tries to redact the information we may have to go to the Ombudsman, so, in the end, it\u2019s a story about hiding information\u2014so it\u2019s doubly compounded\u2014whereas if the Minister released the information right here, tabled the information and included it in the list of information, that would probably not get that much coverage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s been a lot of Budget legislation and if we\u2019re lucky that will get two or three lines maybe in Newsroom or maybe on The Spinoff, whereas if the Minister tries to hide this information, this is going to lead to bigger and more damaging media stories for the Government. So it\u2019s in the Minister\u2019s political interests to actually release this information but it\u2019s also in the public interest for us to have this information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI also want to ask a specific question around that paragraph, paragraph 43 on page 11, in the regulatory impact statement. It mentions there that there are an extra 225,000 clients being reviewed. How does that relate to paragraph 40, which says that staff will be able to manually process approximately 332,000 reviews each year? Is that 225,000 additional to that 332,000, or is that a subset of those 332,000 reviews each year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EThe next part of the questioning that I want to get into is: what is the current capacity for the department to be able to do this? I note that there\u2019s been additional investment in the systems to do that, but what is the baseline that the Minister\u2019s working from? How many reviews currently, not related to this, are they doing each year, and how much additional work will it create for the staff? Have there been any time and motion studies that measure the amount of time it takes for employees to actually process and review these applications? Are there different bespoke processes depending on which category of benefit group that they are reviewing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EThere has been a lot of mention of the automated decision-making process. What is the ratio of decision making towards artificial intelligence (AI) and towards staff? What additional roles will be created in the Ministry of Social Development and Employment that actually relate to having AI expertise and being able to design and build and actually work with these models? I will have some more questioning when we get to that part. I\u2019m really interested in exactly what sort of models the Minister will be using, but I\u2019ll save those questions for when we get to that section. Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd95c39c0a5c466e977bc6c513c02994\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd95c39c0a5c466e977bc6c513c02994\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. This is not an area of my expertise around social security, but I think there are some obvious questions to be asked around new section 310B, inserted by clause 4, and this period of 52 weeks. It\u2019s specified that the review has to be carried out within 52 weeks. What flexibility is available? There doesn\u2019t seem to be any available, given that 52-week deadline, but what flexibility is available around holiday periods?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe obvious one for us is the Christmas and new year shutdown. New Zealand goes on holiday over Christmas and new year, and those of us who can go to the beach. Even if you\u2019re not going to the beach, it is the Christmas break. There are a number of public holidays in that time. That\u2019s typically the time when families are taking time off as well. It is the annual celebration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, if I can just liken it to some stuff that comes through from the tax law, at that stage, tax returns are typically due by the 7th of the month, but in January the date is extended out to the 15th of the month. I\u2019d have to go and look that up exactly, but I\u2019m sure the Minister for Social Development and Employment gets the principle there that there is extra time allowed over holiday periods in order to just give people a little bit more time to comply with their obligations simply because of the way that holidays concatenate and build up. It\u2019s not just the public holidays that are available at that time; it\u2019s also our social practices that Christmas and new year is a time that people actually turn their mind to other obligations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, it\u2019s not just the people who are receiving benefits, of course, who are taking a break at that time of the year but it\u2019s actually the people working in the Ministry of Social Development (MSD), so there are typically fewer staff available. I just want to know: is there a possibility to have some flexibility built in around, in particular, that Christmas and new year period, or is that 52 weeks an absolutely hard deadline? Is there some capacity within MSD to have policy that would enable there to be a little bit more time available over the Christmas and new year period? I can\u2019t think of other particular holiday periods during the year\u2014possibly around Easter, but of course Easter is a movable feast, and other public holidays don\u2019t tend to build up in quite the same way that the Christmas and new year holidays do when there are four public holidays within a very short space of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo if the Minister could just give some assurance around flexibility, if there is any, or what might be done with internal MSD policy, even if it\u2019s not quite exactly specified that way in the law, that would be very helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00222690cdeeed39441b89da011d87f64619\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222690cdeeed39441b89da011d87f64619\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I do want to just remind the committee that this was related to legislation that we passed earlier and is accounted for in the savings in Budget 2024. As I mentioned yesterday, some of the forecasts of the saving are difficult to estimate, and particularly in this one, because what we do recognise is that, actually, that prevention of people going into debt\u2014how do you actually assess that? I think that\u2019s a really important one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EIn terms of information, that will be coming out as it usually does under normal release processes. I want to just come back to a comment, though, that Helen White raised about redactions. It is standard practice that when there is any legal advice, that is provided as redacted\u2014and that is the same.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EA former member asked about staff time, and I have said earlier\u2014so I will repeat for his information, although I don\u2019t like repeating\u2014automated decision-making actually frees up staff time to have those important conversations with clients.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022 data-id=\u002290a55147e3174415ba6b5ad2500e5857\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290a55147e3174415ba6b5ad2500e5857\u0022\u003EBENJAMIN DOYLE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Still looking at clause 4 here, inserting new subpart 3A of Part 6. Ingrid Leary, my colleague to my right, rightly said that we touched very briefly on the reference to M\u0101ori communities and the impact on M\u0101ori, in an earlier call. Thank you to the Minister for Social Development and Employment for mentioning M\u0101ori in her response\u2014she did say she didn\u2019t want to talk about it, so I want to expand a little bit further to a slightly different point that is about Te Tiriti o Waitangi in regards to that particular clause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003EIn the regulatory impact statement (RIS) released by the Ministry of Social Development (MSD)\u2014which is fantastic because they turned that around incredibly fast, and it is actually the only thing that we can utilise in reference to this bill, given we don\u2019t have a select committee opportunity to hear from the members of the communities who will be affected most by this bill. M\u0101ori, of course, are particularly affected, they are disproportionately affected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003ETe Tiriti o Waitangi implications on page 7 of the regulatory impact statement\u2014it is brief, unfortunately; it would be good if it was in more detail. But it describes in paragraph 24, \u201CMSD\u2019s Privacy, Human Rights and Ethics (PHRaE) framework incorporates guidance on aligning MSD\u2019s processes to Te Tiriti o Waitangi / The Treaty of Waitangi. As part of [that] process, MSD will assess mandatory reviews against the ADM standard\u201D\u2014automated decision-making. My question for the Minister is how\u2014we would really like to understand with some detail\u2014this will happen. We would usually be able to tease out and understand these mechanisms in select committee and go through the details. Unfortunately, due to the nature of urgency, we need to do that here so that there is transparency and we can have fair and public debate about this issue. So how will the Minister ensure an alignment with this process to Te Tiriti o Waitangi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003EI want to request that we are told in detail, not just that it will happen. The reason for this is because the public may start to question the assurances that are given, if they are not provided with detail as to how it is happening. Public perception of the Ministry of Social Development is crucial to the effectiveness of its purpose. The RIS directly speaks about the fact that there is a risk to public perception if there is a lack of transparency. I am requesting detail and clarity from the Minister around how the Ministry for Social Development will meet this requirement as it states in the regulatory impact statement. It states it as a fact, so I would like details and assurance from the Minister, please. Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6c3ba9e4ee345288fba1bd6cbe1a384\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6c3ba9e4ee345288fba1bd6cbe1a384\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I appreciate the opportunity to take a call, and this is my first call on this bill. I do want to just reiterate what my colleague Benjamin Doyle from the Green Party has said, which is that we don\u2019t have a select committee process and there is a lot of detail in here, which is why we are getting into detailed scrutiny of the bill. Because it\u2019s important, for the Hansard as well\u2014for example, if there are challenges through benefit reviews, those types of things\u2014it\u2019s important, actually, that the Hansard captures the intent of the Government, because that\u2019s the kind of thing that you would rely on in that type of situation. So this is one of the reasons why we are digging in in terms of the questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo I want to come also to clause 4. I have some further questions related to this in clause 5, but I\u2019ll wait till we get to clause 5 to ask specific questions around the automated process. I want to come back to some of the questions colleagues have asked about the disability community, but extend that out further, because there\u2019s a specific piece in the regulatory impact statement, and I\u2019ll try to keep my contribution short, because this is a question I just want to get to the heart of. If you look at page 7 of the regulatory impact statement, bullet point 23 under the heading, \u201CDisabled people\u201D, it says here in the regulatory impact statement, \u201CWe note that some disabled people (as well as people from other client cohorts) may find it hard to engage with MSD within the required review timeframes. To mitigate this, we are proposing the ability for MSD to allow appropriate exceptions, extensions and exemptions to clients who are not able to respond to these mandatory reviews due to their circumstances. This ability will ensure that clients are not negatively impacted due to no fault of their own.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo I note in the regulatory impact statement crafted for the Government that it actually makes that point quite specifically about the extra challenges placed on disabled people. The Minister for Social Development and Employment has responded by saying she\u2019s consulted with herself, the Minister, but, actually, that doesn\u2019t get to the heart of what this item, bullet point number 23, says. If I note, looking at clause 4, new subpart 3A of Part 6, new section 310C(6) \u201CThe kinds of benefits referred to in subsection (4)(b)\u201D, which are the ones that have an exemption is my reading of the bill. So, again, we don\u2019t have the time in select committee to dig in with advisers, so I\u2019d like some clarification if I\u2019ve got this wrong. But it lists out the kinds of benefits that are referred to in subsection (4)(b), which is where there would be an exemption is my reading of the bill, and correct me if I\u2019m wrong. It lists some benefits there, but what it doesn\u2019t list is probably the one we\u2019re most concerned around, which is the supported living payment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo it appears that the regulatory impact statement has specifically noted the needs of the disabled community, that there do need to be appropriate exceptions, extensions, and exemptions, but then the bill itself doesn\u2019t actually reflect what is in the regulatory impact statement (RIS). So my question to the Minister\u2014it\u2019s a specific question\u2014is: if it\u2019s not in the bill, will she consider amendments to include it in the bill, and, if not, what other operational mechanisms will she consider and include on the Hansard today so that if people are taking benefit reviews through the benefit review process, they have some clarification as to the Government\u2019s intent? It\u2019s unclear when you have a RIS and a bill that are not acting in accordance with each other. What other mechanisms will there be for exemptions for this particular community, who are most likely to have challenges engaging with the Ministry of Social Development?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EAgain, we\u2019ve only just got this bill this week. One of the reasons why we have select committee is so we can ask detailed questions and if we\u2019ve got some of how the clauses relate with each other wrong, that\u2019s a type of clarification we need from the Minister. So thank you and I appreciate a response from the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022c07a5d901d254ca191fccf0d158354ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c07a5d901d254ca191fccf0d158354ee\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m not going to traverse ground that I have covered before around disabled people and exemptions, other than to say that, actually, one of the Labour members who spoke in one of the earlier readings was quite clear about the supported living payment and the fact that it doesn\u2019t include the medical reviews, which is an issue that comes up from disabled people on a regular basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EIn terms of the questions around automated decision-making, some of which I have already answered, it is publicly available. The standard was actually introduced by the previous Government in 2023, so I suggest, if you\u2019ve got any problems with it, you should take it up with them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022 data-id=\u00227a24f16a7d8b47a684725f663cebbee6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a24f16a7d8b47a684725f663cebbee6\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Now, I want to speak to new section 310B(1) in clause 4, and I want to talk to paragraphs (a) and (b). I want to talk about some new questions which haven\u2019t been covered yet, and that is, did the Minister for Social Development and Employment consider, when deciding on the objective of this bill\u2014and in the regulatory impact statement, at page 2, it says that \u201CThe objectives of this proposal are to: confirm that a client is still eligible and receiving the correct rate of assistance at least once every 52 weeks\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EMy question to the Minister, on which I\u2019m seeking engagement with, is: did she consider the advice and the recommendations from the Welfare Expert Advisory Group, which was established under the previous Government? It was chaired by Professor Cindy Kiro, who we in this House know has an amazing reputation. They had thousands of submissions from people with lived experience and years of robust analysis, and the recommendation told us clearly\u2014and I quote here from section 11 of that report\u2014\u201Cto remove the requirement to reapply for the benefit every 52 weeks\u201D. The reasoning was simple for why they did this: this requirement adds unnecessary stress, and disproportionately harms disabled people, and creates more work for no good reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EDid the Minister consider this advice from the Welfare Expert Advisory Group, because it might help us to understand the objective of this bill in a context of the people that it will affect the most, who are going to be the people who are already doing it tough: disabled people, older people, M\u0101ori, and Pacific people. So I\u2019m really seeking engagement with the Minister about whether she considered the Welfare Expert Advisory Group\u2019s advice when deciding on the objective of this bill, because if we do look at new section 310B(1)(a) and (b), it is clearly going directly against the advice that was given by that welfare advisory group. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EThis is a new question. It is asking about the objective of this bill. In this clause 4, I\u2019m asking: has the Minister taken into consideration that Welfare Expert Advisory Group, particularly because they are representing the voices of people who would have wanted to have their say and to scrutinise this bill during a select committee process that the Government has decided to lock those people out of, and, actually, we, as Opposition members, would have been able to scrutinise and ask officials these questions. So, just to recap, could the Minister please explain to us how she came to the decision to put in that review every 52 weeks, which goes against the advice of the Welfare Expert Advisory Group? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa04a18fa136467a9bc840e99355cdff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa04a18fa136467a9bc840e99355cdff\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te Minita. I want to go to clause 4, as it seems quite a few of us are, and I\u2019ve got one, two, three, four, five, six questions that stem from new section 310A through to new section 310C. I register that the Minister for Social Development and Employment\u2019s response is that \u201CI\u2019m repeating myself and it\u2019s not the first time I\u2019ve said it.\u201D I am taking this process as a trust and verify process: I don\u2019t accept it just because it\u2019s said, and we are entitled in this particular process\u2014because we don\u2019t have another, it seems\u2014to require the verification of the things that are said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ESo, in that vein, can the Minister assure the committee that this list of specified benefits\u2014and do you know that when I read the benefits, ka aroha ki \u014D t\u0101tou wh\u0101nau [I feel sorry for our families] when it has words like \u201Cemergency\u201D and \u201Csupplementary\u201D, and all of those types of words which tell us\u2014because they\u2019re English words, right?\u2014that things are not good, things are hard, and things are difficult for families. OK, in this Budget, let\u2019s just have a good crack and see whether they are as hard and as difficult as you think they are, because if we\u2019re OK, we just don\u2019t see it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ESo question: if this list of specified benefits will not be quietly expanded in future to include benefits that are primarily accessed by M\u0101ori, thereby disproportionately targeting M\u0101ori\u2014new section 310B\u2014how will the Minister ensure that these mandatory reviews do not add stress or instability for people in precarious or seasonal work arrangements? This is based on, obviously, my work in and around the Ministry of Social Development (MSD), particularly in the family harm situation and in suicide prevention. Rolling into an MSD office, even with some of my mates working there\u2014it\u2019s horrible. It\u2019s hard. The expectations on you are\u2014well, they roll in as if to say, \u201CLook, we don\u2019t expect you to tell the truth, so we\u2019re going to test you and push you until you do.\u201D That kind of environment, even with some well-intentioned people\u2014it\u2019s hard, it\u2019s difficult, and does this help towards that? No. The assurance that there will not be further instability\u2014because we know who\u2019s under that boot, and they are M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EIn new section 310C, what protections are in place to prevent benefit suspensions for those who face legitimate barriers to compliance? If you lived in Hokianga, in Te Kao, in Tair\u0101whiti, and in those areas, your phone and your connection is so off there, they just don\u2019t work. If you think they\u2019re going to go \u201COh, yes.\u201D on their phone, as if it\u2019s that easy, it is not that easy. Some are\u2014some of the digital natives, they\u2019re great. But for some of the digital immigrants\u2014which are those my age, by the way\u2014and others, it ain\u2019t going to happen. It is not that easy; so to assume that it is, is foolish and harmful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EWhat oversight exists? What oversight exists\u2014I\u2019ll repeat that, in case I was reading the face right\u2014to ensure that MSD does not arbitrarily use the power? Agencies often use power because they like it and because it works for them, and they do it just quite naturally, unfortunately\u2014power to demand information in a specified manner and time frame. I get the words\u2014you know, it\u2019s all very clinical and technical, and so there is the type of training and expertise that you\u2019re going to need to run this kind of line, Minister. I have no confidence that it\u2019s going to go well for many of our families, and I seek that you look closer, really, to what\u2019s being imposed on our people, unfortunately. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u00220e1b30da3d134278b62b9b2670abd8c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e1b30da3d134278b62b9b2670abd8c0\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I wanted to raise a new point on a new section being inserted into the Social Security Act. This is new section 310D, on page 5, just after line 5 to about\u2014well, basically, it\u2019s the whole page. This is in subparagraph (i), and this is around \u201CMSD must notify or advise beneficiaries\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ENow, I wanted to ask, because there\u2019s nothing here in the legislation\u2014and we are thinking of potentially looking at amending this so that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022104a9a97d3a14f19ad4f344625da1da7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Which page is that, sorry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223627efde6574e7d957b2d4888f326d1\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: This is in clause 4, new section 310D, on page 5. This is new section 310D, \u201CMSD must notify or advise beneficiaries\u201D. Thanks for seeking clarification. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI wanted to understand if the Minister for Social Development and Employment had produced a list, or what level of accountability exists for the Ministry of Social Development (MSD), around the means that that communication needs to happen. For example, does MSD need to exhaust all types of communication before they potentially trigger the suspension of someone for not being able to comply? What are MSD\u2019s responsibilities and obligations, because she talks a lot about the responsibilities of people on the benefit, but it seems like there doesn\u2019t seem to be\u2014the other side\u2014anything around whether MSD must, for example, first attempt to communicate with someone via the phone, via mail, via text, or via message on the MyMSD portal, and whether all of those avenues need to be first exhausted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI ask this, and this is really important, because, having worked as a welfare advocate prior to coming to Parliament, I did see a lot of people had really old phone models with cracked screens\u2014second-hand phones, for example\u2014because that\u2019s all that they could get, and that means that accessing MyMSD can be difficult. People who have literacy issues could be missing out, and, as my colleague Mariameno Kapa-Kingi talked about, it can be people who are just not digital natives. So if, for example, some of these forms of communication are primarily happening through online correspondence, I can see that people could easily miss those. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI\u2019m keen to get an assurance from the Minister around new section 310D around the safeguards around the means that MSD must use to communicate with people before, basically, taking someone\u2019s benefit away, before we consider putting an amendment to add to these safeguards and ensure that MSD tries, basically, every possible option.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdfd310b7dfb44b8b6f38f0d344a7a01\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: And renters, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c6b62565c4c4f3da9bf3dd1c1765f5b\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right, yeah, and when it comes to correspondence, my colleague Tamatha Paul just made a great point that when it comes to physical correspondence, which is that the issue that we have with renters but also, actually, people in emergency housing, and people who may be boarding\u2014which is one of the groups that she seems to want to target\u2014people may have old addresses in the system. They may be living through toxic stress, which means they may not be able to access MyMSD to update their information. But, anyway, that\u2019s my main question on new section 310D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThen I wanted to talk about some of the unintended fiscal implications that, particularly, the provisions in clause 4 have but also, actually, throughout all of Part 1. This is because, as my colleague Francisco Hernandez has talked about, the Minister has refused to proactively\u2014for the debate, so that we can scrutinise\u2014release the breakdown of those savings. But I do wonder whether MSD considered the unintended fiscal consequences of having some of the people lose their benefit who then require other forms of assistance with other parts of the system. That\u2019s a cost. It seems like the analysis in the regulatory impact statement (RIS) didn\u2019t account for how, for example, people may end up requiring to access assistance from other parts of the system. I am worried that, therefore, the analysis\u2014and the Minister, not intentionally but perhaps maybe just through a lack of information, is mischaracterising the savings that she is making as part of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI can see that if someone is left without a benefit, even if they get back on the benefit later down the line, they could end up requiring access to hardship grants, access to advances, and access to emergency accommodation, and those have costs for the Government. Those do not seem to be accounted for in the RIS. This is something we could have asked for from officials at the select committee stage, and not have to wait until the Minister chooses to proactively, maybe, perhaps release that information somewhere on her website. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EAgain, I do think it would be useful for the Minister to at least tell us if there was an analysis of potential unintended fiscal consequences as a result of these costs being passed on to other parts of the system, and\u2014to recap on my previous point\u2014would the Minister like to outline what means MSD must try to use to notify or advise beneficiaries before, potentially, taking someone\u2019s benefit away? Is there a list, and, if not, would she be open to an amendment to expand that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u0022af40dbf876a44901ae0a325286a84860\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af40dbf876a44901ae0a325286a84860\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019d like to start this contribution just by challenging the Minister for Social Development and Employment on her assumption that people are repeating themselves, because if she\u2019s listened to the debate\u2014which I have been, very carefully\u2014there hasn\u2019t been a repeat of the questions or the points. There have been themes, but very few of our questions are being answered adequately, and so I would just say that, from the Opposition\u2019s perspective, we do not believe there has been any repetition. I would like to see more of an exchange\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283a015e0a7344dc0846d68e743bb16b0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Just to clarify for the member, I will judge whether there\u2019s been repetition or irrelevancy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234ae4cdef42041df8a6e3da69494bb67\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chair. To pick up on Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s previous comment, I too had concerns about the means of communication, and so I would suggest, if the Minister is able to consider it, that in new section 310C(1)(a), she could amend that paragraph to add the words \u201Cby email or letter\u201D. It\u2019s a very simple amendment. Most people these days are able to get email or a letter, and she could maybe even add \u201Ctext\u201D, if she would like to. But I think those two are easy to track and to evidence. Then, in paragraph (b), after the words \u201Chas notified\u201D, the amendment would add \u201Cby email or letter\u201D or, again, \u201Ctext\u201D, if she was minded to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EIn subsection (2), my question is: when it says \u201Cinformation or answers in response to a notification described in subsection (1),\u201D could the legislation be clarified? \u201CMSD\u201D\u2014is that a person or is that AI? If it\u2019s a person, maybe it should be \u201Can MSD employee\u201D, and if it\u2019s AI, maybe it should be \u201Can MSD algorithm determines\u201D, and this will relate to some other points I\u2019d like to make in another contribution around how the reviews are done. Still on that subsection, if we go down to paragraph (a) and amend it to in a way \u201Cthat MSD and the person receiving the benefit agree on;\u201D, rather than just in a way \u201Cthat MSD specifies;\u201D, that would fix up the issue that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March has made comment on, and it\u2019s the same in paragraph (b).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also just like to make the point that the word \u201Cbeneficiary\u201D is actually very stigmatising. One of the things that would be possible\u2014and I wonder if the Minister would consider it\u2014is to just make an amendment that would actually amend this legislation and the primary legislation to change all references to \u201Cbeneficiary\u201D to \u201Cthe person receiving the benefit\u201D. It wouldn\u2019t be difficult to do. We\u2019ve seen that in select committee, where we\u2019ve done it with mental health legislation. This would be an opportunity to sharpen up the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EBut I want to turn now to this. We really still haven\u2019t interrogated how this bill is supposed to work when it doesn\u2019t specify which benefits are caught by it, and I\u2019ll just talk the Minister through it because she says that it\u2019s in the explanatory note. Well, if it\u2019s in the explanatory note, why isn\u2019t it in the legislation? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EIf we have a look at new section 310A, \u201CMeaning of specified benefit\u201D, in clause 4, it states, \u201Cunder section 438A to be a specified benefit for the purposes of this subpart\u201D, and then it\u2019s got a whole sort of rabbit warren of places where you go in to the primary legislation and other things. You can get the exemptions if you go to the regulations, and you find out it\u2019s the ACC and, I think, some emergency situations. But then it\u2019s got three different definitions in the primary legislation for the \u201Cspecified benefit\u201D. There\u2019s one in section 198(3), one in section 207(4), and one in section 330(1), and then the actual section\u2014the specific empowering section\u2014just refers to the exemptions, which the M\u0101ori Party speaker has referred to, but it doesn\u2019t talk about which ones are caught. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s really, really clunky. Is that just because it\u2019s bad writing, or is it because there is a desire to extend that list, and, if so, is that list going to be extended by regulation? Because it does talk about regulations earlier in the Act. If that\u2019s the case, then it does bring up the question of whether that should be happening, and, certainly, whether limiting people\u2019s entitlements should be happening, given that that shouldn\u2019t happen in secondary legislation, according to the legislative guidelines. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThose are the questions around that, and then also we had a copy of this bill sent to us yesterday and this part was written quite differently. It\u2019s interesting, because the bill was not given a different name and it was not given a different version, but I had it sitting in front of me with both the screens of my computer, and it was written really differently and it had much more simple language. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d like to know, and I can tell the Minister that previously it said under the old version of new section 310B that \u201CMSD must review all specified benefits when undertaking a mandatory review \u2026 (a) if the client receives a main benefit that is a specified benefit,\u2014(i) the date on which its main benefit commenced; or (ii) the date on which its main benefit was last reviewed.\u201D Now, that is actually not bad writing, and I can follow that. Now, we have to go to subsection (1) to find the timing, and after lots of work and digging around, it seems to be that we come up with the 20 days that would happen once the review is due. Why was it not kept this simple? We haven\u2019t had any time to understand this. If we\u2019d been in select committee, that would have been a question, to be able to look at those two pages together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThe same is under new section 310B(3)(b). Again, it\u2019s got \u201Ca specified benefit,\u2014(i) the date on which the beneficiary\u2019s last specified benefit \u2026 or \u2026 that [the] benefit was last reviewed.\u201D Why make us have to go up and down through the legislation? It\u2019s just so difficult.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EFurthermore, we have talked about the 52 weeks, and I\u2019m not going to repeat that. I\u2019d just like to draw the committee\u2019s attention to the amendment that has been tabled by my colleague Vanushi Walters to replace \u201C52 weeks\u201D with \u201C78 weeks\u201D, although, actually, there could be some debate about that, because I\u2019ve heard from my colleague the Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan that even longer periods of time can be really stressful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also just like to signal that my other colleague Dr Tracey McLellan will have a corresponding tabled amendment to Schedule 1, and that is to make sure that Schedule 1 aligns with the amendment that we would like to see around that. I\u2019m not going to dwell on that any further, but I do want to, in my remaining time, still look at the exceptions\u2014well, at some of the wording under new section 310B. The first one I referenced very obliquely and have just touched on, and I indicated I would speak to this. Under subsection (2)(b), why are there the words \u201Cor (b) was not entitled to receive the benefit, or the rate of benefit, that was paid to the beneficiary.\u201D? Those words are absolutely redundant. What they do is signal, in my view, beneficiary bashing. They don\u2019t add anything to paragraph (a). Paragraph (a) already captures what the provision is trying to do and, therefore, I would just ask the Minister if she could please strike that out. It\u2019s not necessary, and it actually doesn\u2019t send a very good message.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESecondly, if I look at the exceptions, one of the things we have heard about\u2014and this is something that\u2019s very dear to my heart\u2014is that, currently, under emergency housing rules, the rules are being changed so that women and children who are escaping domestic violence situations are being deemed to have contributed to their own homelessness. I have seen that in my electorate, I\u2019ve been talking in the media about it, and I was lucky to also help one constituent get into a home just before those rules changed. I\u2019m pretty familiar with them, and we have had concerns yesterday from the Hon Carmel Sepuloni about this particular cohort. So is it possible, please, to change that and include another exemption that purely captures \u201Cpeople\u201D\u2014it doesn\u2019t have to be women; often it can be men escaping domestic violence as well\u2014who would be escaping from those situations? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EUnder new section 310B in clause 4, we\u2019ve got some wording in subsection (5) which talks about a benefit a beneficiary has received \u201Cif the review determines\u201D. Now, \u201Cif the review determines\u201D is passive writing and it doesn\u2019t say who\u2019s doing the review. Is it going to be an MSD employee or is it going to be an algorithm, and if it is an algorithm, then why not state it in there\u2014and if I have got that incorrect, then be clear so that we can understand what part of this legislation and implementation is being automated, and where somebody can expect to have a person doing the review. One of the amendments I would suggest is that we change \u201Cthe review determines\u201D either to \u201Can MSD employee determines\u201D or to \u201Can artificial intelligence algorithm determines\u201D, and I think that would be really important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI have some more questions, going through from new section 310 and onwards. So, Madam Chair, when I get another chance I would like to keep going through these technical areas, which, I can assure you, will offer no repetition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022cddbc61cb8b54baa980f58956b05c51a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cddbc61cb8b54baa980f58956b05c51a\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m not going to repeat things that I have put in the first reading and second reading speeches. I was very deliberate in terms of what I included in those speeches to make it clear around what automated decision-making would be used and when it wasn\u2019t. I\u2019m referring back to the notes of what I\u2019ve already said in the committee of the whole House, and it was clear that notification for the review will be done by post or by the Ministry of Social Development (MSD). I can add for the committee\u2019s clarification that if a client has been interacting with staff directly, a face-to-face interaction would also count.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not sure how many more ways I can talk about that it\u2019s by post or by MSD, which means it\u2019s removing the technology barriers that may exist for some. I went through the process in a lot of detail, including the questions that were asked and the ways in which a client could participate by providing the information that they are required to provide anyway, all of the time, when there is a change of circumstances. It\u2019s a very short bill and a simple bill, and I\u2019m really hoping that members opposite now understand, because I\u2019ve said it on multiple occasions and I\u2019m not hearing anything new. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00221e76159e4790435e99243270e80dd659\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e76159e4790435e99243270e80dd659\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not going to take a closure motion just yet. I just want to see how much more new information is going to be forthcoming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022c11dd55fb5794f148865898f1cc66bae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c11dd55fb5794f148865898f1cc66bae\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate it that the Minister for Social Development and Employment doesn\u2019t want to repeat herself, but if she could just give us one answer with regards to the M\u0101ori obligations, we would probably be pleased about that. So just continuing in terms of clause 4, and off the back of Mariameno Kapa-Kingi and Benjamin Doyle\u2019s k\u014Drero, we do need to get some response from the Minister in terms of M\u0101ori and Treaty obligations. That hasn\u2019t been traversed at all over last night or today, and I think the questions are more than reasonable. The regulatory impact statement (RIS) is very, very clear in terms of these regulatory reviews that they have greater impact on M\u0101ori, given M\u0101ori are overrepresented in the benefit population.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ESo I would like some answers from the Minister on this: was there a specific cost-benefit analysis on M\u0101ori, and is there something that she can present in that regard? Further to the number of other questions I\u2019ve asked in this area: who are the consultation groups that the Minister met with? If the Minister could list some of the groups in this area, particularly given the huge concern from iwi who actively have engaged with\u2014I know they engaged with us when we were in Government, and I presume they are engaging with this Government. They have a vested interest in this, given the disparities in terms of M\u0101ori at the moment, so can the Minister list what type of pre-work or work or continuing work is happening in that area? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIt is an area of major concern for us, given we\u2019ve had a Budget that has transferred over $1 billion of targeted M\u0101ori funding into the general funds. So if the funding has been transferred, as it\u2014well, has been transferred, and there\u2019s absolutely no doubt about that. But what does that mean in terms of priorities going forward, and is the Minister able to give us a k\u014Drero with regards to the plan going forward? Has there been any work on the impact of pay equity\u2014which has been right at the forefront of our debates over the last week\u2014as it relates to the family income in those groups and whether the reviews can be justified, or thresholds should be changed for the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0e0a173fa20449d9e14a4634ec7d064\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Can the member come back to this bill. You\u2019ve strayed away from this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218c9977f9afb47babc2f7c2d1d4987e1\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m talking about clause 4, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022146b6ac0c255425c8b9c1981a5049953\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: You started by mentioning\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2bfb7c580c846f4a4f46a094f5b0b34\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I\u2019m talking about clause 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6ba01bd61d84f67854ad90417066e68\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, you started by mentioning clause 4. This is not a Budget debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246d99d0a349644bd8a463249893f6c61\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, I know it\u2019s not a Budget debate, and thanks for that reminder, Madam Chair. But it is particularly pertinent and relevant to clause 4 because the Ministry of Social Development has made it very clear, if you have a look at the RIS, that M\u0101ori are going to be, probably\u2014along with Pasifika\u2014the most impacted group here, and M\u0101ori women, too. We\u2019ve already got the gender gap, but M\u0101ori women, as many in the committee would know today, are probably the most impacted group of all. So, given those facts, I don\u2019t think it\u2019s unfair to ask the Minister\u2014as I have continually done since yesterday\u2014what sort of work she has done. Does she think a Treaty strategy should be in place, is there any consultation going on with iwi, is there any consultation going on with NGOs, and how can she make M\u0101ori feel comfortable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI talk about the Budget, Madam Chair, because $1 billion has been transferred out of M\u0101ori funding and into the general funds, and so that would make some sense that you\u2019d talk about it. So how are M\u0101ori meant to be feeling comfortable when so much of the targeted funding\u2014which the Minister will be aware of\u2014has now been transferred out? Going forward, is she able to provide us with any\u2014any\u2014information in terms of M\u0101ori, or are M\u0101ori being seen as just another population group?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00227e272bbbd478452095ab197e428193f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e272bbbd478452095ab197e428193f6\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m going back over my notes of what I\u2019ve already said in answer to the question about M\u0101ori, and the automated decision-making standard, which was written and publicly available since 2023, when it was introduced through legislation by the last Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022 data-id=\u002267bb8669836448ca8c9b2e1adf9e42f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267bb8669836448ca8c9b2e1adf9e42f8\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00228463a01ab43d459abfc1c2edcea9273c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228463a01ab43d459abfc1c2edcea9273c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I think we\u2019re very close. This is a very small, tight bill, and so the contributions need to be relevant and not stray from the intent of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022cef1871e87c94a88b48e8b3c672d596b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cef1871e87c94a88b48e8b3c672d596b\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to talk about clause 5, which hasn\u2019t had a lot of pick-up, and I really want to challenge the Minister for Social Development and Employment around how this is narrow. It affects more than 100,000 people in this country and the impact is deep, so I think it\u2019s not being in good faith to then start talking about how this is a narrow bill where it\u2019s a huge group of the population who are affected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EClause 5 is about the expansion of the use of automated electronic systems to make decisions, to exercise powers and comply with legislative obligations, and take related actions. One of the reasons why I\u2019m interested in the Minister engaging in good faith around this\u2014and this goes back to her lack of transparency in providing adequate information, because I don\u2019t think it\u2019s good enough that she says she\u2019ll release that information later when we are debating the bill right now. The regulatory impact statement in relation to the provisions of clause 5, and I\u2019m quoting from page 3 of the regulatory impact statement (RIS)\u2014if I look at the paragraph that starts with \u201CAssumptions around improved accuracy\u201D, the RIS talks about how \u201Cit is possible for the use of [automated decision-making] to entrench existing inequities in the welfare system as these can be built into the data collection.\u201D, and this is specifically around the design of the algorithms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EClause 5 talks about the broadening of the use of automated decision-making. Has the Ministry of Social Development already designed the algorithm that it will use for the purposes of clause 5 in the expansion of automated decision-making? That\u2019s a pretty simple question. So if we\u2019re going to get patronised by the Minister about how this is simple bill, I expect engagement with a simple question: did she already receive information on the algorithm that is going to be used in the provisions in clause 5, and, if not, why not? And, if not, as well, I want to understand what steps are being taken to mitigate what the RIS identifies about the design of the algorithm could be entrenching existing inequities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThis is extremely important because we know that the design of algorithms in other parts of the system can indeed entrench, for example, the biases that exist. We see this in how biometric information is used and then how people are identified, and people could end up being racially profiled, etc. This is identified in the RIS, around the inequities that exist. For example, one of the inequities that other members have tried to raise in this debate is how M\u0101ori are disproportionately impacted by the welfare system. So is she concerned that the algorithm could entrench that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI really want to understand whether the algorithm is out there. Would she be willing to table it right now for us to be able to analyse it and give it the scrutiny that it deserves? She also hasn\u2019t engaged at all on any unintended fiscal implications in the provisions of clause 4 around the so-called savings being passed to other parts of the system\u2014no engagement whatsoever there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think we deserve far better than this. We are trying to do our part to ask simple, straight-up questions relevant to the clauses, and then we are getting patronising, unrelated answers. I know we can\u2019t force her to give us the answers that we want to hear, but I think that, at the very least, she could give us a straight-up answer around whether the algorithm is there and whether she\u2019s done any analysis on unintended fiscal consequences on the costs being passed on to the other parts of the system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ETo the last answer she gave in relation to a question I made around the forms of communication, she said, \u201COh well, it\u2019ll be the post or MSD.\u201D, and that\u2019s exactly what I was asking about. If it\u2019s MSD, is it the phone or a text, or is it a face-to-face appointment, and if it is one of those three, can she please name the number of fulltime-equivalents (FTEs) that she thinks will be used by MSD to then be able to notify people? No information has been given around that. I mean, I think she\u2019s insulting the voters and the listeners by saying, \u201COh, MyMSD will do it.\u201D\u2014yeah, we know that. We\u2019re asking about the level of resourcing, fiscal and FTE-wise\u2014if it has been modelled\u2014that will go into notifying people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThis is specifically in new section 310D, which is being added in clause 4, so we haven\u2019t really unpacked anything in clause 5, at all. I\u2019m keen to start off by going back to my initial question on clause 5, which was: is the algorithm out there, will she provide it to us, and, if not, what measures are being taken to not entrench inequities? I see that the officials have given her some notes. I hope that she can provide us a non-patronising, simple answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u00223cc010825b4c4728a719f9a2a08d51c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223cc010825b4c4728a719f9a2a08d51c5\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Look, I know that my colleague Rachel Boyack had some short, sharp questions to respond and seek further clarification about some of the entitlements and answers that she raised previously, which will be really important, but to pick up on where we now seem to be heading, which is around automation\u2014and I\u2019d like to say that this is only the second call on automation. We\u2019ve been very deliberately trying to keep our comments to the previous clause. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESo when I look at the regulatory impact statement (RIS) on automation, I do have some specific questions, and I\u2019m really happy for the Minister to jump up and answer them and do a back and forth. But if she\u2019s not interested, then I\u2019ll carry on with my questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThe first one is that in the RIS, it does say that there were three options: there was the status quo, then there was the ability to review the entitlements for benefits using automation and also without automation\u2014so two was without; three was with\u2014and then there was a redacted one, which we\u2019ve heard was redacted for legal reasons. I want to ask the Minister if\u2014I understand that legal advice is able to be redacted under the Official Information Act, but it would be really good if she could give us just a hint about what that was about. Was it to do with the human rights implications, and, if it wasn\u2019t, even a no would be great, so I\u2019ll wait for her answer, and then\u2014OK, if she\u2019s not going to answer, the second one would be: in terms of the 332,000 reviews, did she consider for the status quo just supplementing the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) staff so that instead of having front-line job cuts and not investing in the technology\u2014the technology in the RIS was $5.33 million and fulltime-equivalent costs are $7.5 million. Did she consider just using human resource? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EMy third question, since she won\u2019t answer that one, is around the safety and reliability, actually: what will happen if they get things wrong, can the system be gamed or hacked, and will she consider a review more than every three years? Currently, the legislation says that it is every three years. Could she perhaps, at least for the first year, do every three months, and then maybe do them yearly, because it would be terrible to find out in three years that mistakes had been made, and how are people going to know that? I\u2019m wondering what the appeal process is, and I will leave my questions there so that colleagues can ask theirs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00228da2e8e02f074f9790180d2fa7c64766\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228da2e8e02f074f9790180d2fa7c64766\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I went through the three conditions that the automatic decision-making will be used in my earlier speech, so I\u2019m not going to go through those conditions again. But I do want to assure the committee that, as I have said before, any decisions about entitlement are made by a front-line staffer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u00221931639f1c6447cebbd0f49f75f48309\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221931639f1c6447cebbd0f49f75f48309\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to note that I have tabled an amendment in the committee just now that I do wish to speak to. It\u2019s specifically related to some of the questions that I\u2019ve been asking the Minister for Social Development and Employment, and I have had an opportunity to review the Minister\u2019s response to my earlier question in the Hansard and this is specifically related to the supported living payment. I\u2019m not entirely satisfied with the Minister\u2019s answer, and I do want to dig in a little bit further. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI understand my colleague Priyanca Radhakrishnan, who has some more expertise in this area, may have a further question specifically related to when benefit ends and the review there. It\u2019s not an area of the law that I have specific expertise in, so I just want to note that my colleague Priyanca Radhakrishnan will have a question on that. So I hope that we can continue this committee stage because we do have live questions that haven\u2019t been answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b5a32834fc244d0a649089244fd4a59\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: What clause or what part are you\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb1f880beff74f9dad2cfc9615e30a70\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m looking at clause 4, and I\u2019ve already spoken to it a couple of times. It is clause 4, and it is new section 310C(4), (5), and (6). It\u2019s in relation to the supported living payment, where the Minister\u2019s response to me was that it didn\u2019t include medical reviews, but my understanding is that it does include the disability-related costs, so I\u2019d like some clarification on whether it does or does not include the disability-related costs. [Interruption] It does? I can\u2019t hear the response, so I\u2019ll just continue with the questions because it\u2019s particular issues related to things like equipment, medical support, and transportation is a big one. I\u2019d just like a response from the Minister on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThe second part, which is related to my tabled amendment, which I\u2019d like the Minister to consider, is that in respect of supported living benefits, in all provisions where \u201C52 weeks\u201D is specified it is deemed to be \u201C2 years\u201D. Now, the reason I have made that specifically around \u201C2 years\u201D is that if you look at the criteria for the supported living payment, it is specifically when somebody has a condition affecting their capacity to work for more than two years, or has a life expectancy of less than two years. It doesn\u2019t look at it on an annual basis; it looks at it on a two-year basis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a specific reason why I have put that in, because if someone is deemed to be unwell and unable to work for two years, I\u2019m uncertain as to why they would be having any kind of review within that two-year period. It doesn\u2019t make sense to me, so I\u2019d really like the Minister\u2014quite genuinely\u2014to consider that amendment because it\u2019s actually consistent with the criteria for this particular benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EBut I do just note that my colleague Priyanca Radhakrishnan has some more detailed questions related to the reviews at the end of a benefit and whether the medical reviews the Minister has said don\u2019t apply are actually only in relation to the end of that point, and I would like the Minister to answer my question specifically about disability-related costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u00221cae7c64b2ff4c749d0e5d7cc88dea19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221cae7c64b2ff4c749d0e5d7cc88dea19\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Just to pick up on the particular point that Rachel Boyack made around the health and disability condition, in the regulatory impact statement (RIS), it says quite clearly that \u201CAll mandatory reviews for all clients will not include a review of their health condition or disability.\u201D Having checked the Hansard as well, I note that the Minister for Social Development and Employment has said both that medical reviews will not be included but that disability-related costs will be. So I just want clarification on that point, given that it appears to be contrary to what is in the RIS. Specifically, I want to know whether specialised equipment, services like counselling and other therapies, transportation, and glasses and hearing aids, for example\u2014will all of those need to be justified within a mandatory review every year? That\u2019s my first question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe other point that I\u2019d like to get some clarity around specifically is on new section 310F, \u201CExemption from mandatory review\u201D, in clause 4. The section reads that \u201CMSD is not required to undertake or complete a review that MSD would, but for section 310E, be required to undertake and complete under section 310B(1) if, MSD is satisfied that, owing to the beneficiary\u2019s circumstances,\u201D\u2014and it\u2019s that word \u201Ccircumstances\u201D that I want some clarity around\u2014\u201Ca mandatory review should not be undertaken or completed (for example, the circumstances specified in sections 326 to 330).\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ESo I went to sections 326 to 330 of the Social Security Act, and those sections all relate to the ending of a benefit. Section 326, for example, is: \u201CAfter death of beneficiary receiving specified benefit\u201D\u2014I mean, it\u2019s pretty clear that you wouldn\u2019t need a review if the beneficiary has died. Section 327 is related to \u201CBenefits payable to sole parent who stops caring for dependent child due to sudden and uncontrollable circumstances\u201D, like\u2014oh, it doesn\u2019t go on to say like what, but, basically, if the benefit ends because of that. Section 328, \u201CSupported living payment payable to beneficiary who stops caring for another person\u201D\u2014I mean, it\u2019s fair that you wouldn\u2019t get the benefit if you\u2019ve stopped caring for the person that the benefit is related to. Section 329, \u201CIf child ceases to be entitled to orphan\u2019s benefit or unsupported child\u2019s benefit\u201D for various reasons, and section 330, \u201CSupported living payment on ground of restricted work capacity or total blindness and cancelled on medical grounds\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ESo all of those exemptions that are specified in new section 310F, basically, say that the Ministry of Social Development doesn\u2019t need to undertake this mandatory review if the benefit has ended. That seems, to me, to be pretty obvious. However, with regard to the words \u201Cfor example\u201D in new section 310F, I would like to know from the Minister what other exemptions are there and in what other cases can an exemption be made, and I ask that specifically because of the section in the RIS that relates to disabled people. It says that \u201CWe note that some disabled people (as well as [others]) may find it hard to engage with MSD within the required review timeframes.\u201D Noting that the bill states that the time frame is just 20 working days, \u201CTo mitigate this, we are proposing the ability for MSD to allow appropriate exceptions, extensions and exemptions to clients who are not able to respond to these mandatory reviews due to their circumstances.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ENow, if the circumstances listed in the bill are only circumstances where a benefit has ended, you wouldn\u2019t need a review anyway. So I\u2019d like to know from the Minister: what mitigations are in place in the legislation to cater to the fact that MSD has pointed out, quite rightly, that there will be a number of people\u2014particularly disabled people\u2014who will not be able to respond within the 20 working days? Where is that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI do have another question about the use of automated decision-making, but I\u2019ll try and take another call for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022467c91a2f0c84389b51c5f9c2325130a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022467c91a2f0c84389b51c5f9c2325130a\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E We are going back and forward in this debate. I have answered a question about extensions and the ability for someone to have a conversation with the Ministry of Social Development if they require an extension to the time frame that is required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EIn my second reading speech, I talked clearly about the disability allowance and how that is an example where it may well be that somebody\u2019s circumstances have changed, and they have additional needs and additional costs, which can lead to an increase in their disability allowance. The member who asked me that question in her reading of it specified that she was pleased that in the inclusion of the eligibility, there is no requirement to prove their medical condition again. She answered her own question when she did her reading, so I\u2019m really hopeful that that has now registered because this is a very simple point and I have answered multiple questions. I\u2019m losing track of how many, but I\u2019m confident that members should get this by now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u00221b7dfca34a184f139f32b979e8820bb7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b7dfca34a184f139f32b979e8820bb7\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. My question is to clause 5, which is amending section 363A\u2014just very quickly\u2014and I want to just start this by saying that despite the size of the bill, and it might be small, it does not mean, in my view, that the question responses should be flippant, and, in fact, I can\u2019t even see the Minister\u2019s face, because she\u2019s not addressing us directly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThe English literacy component of this new mechanism, or new-ish mechanism\u2014and I say that in this context. Many of our young M\u0101ori people, they are k\u014Dhanga reo children, they are kura kaupapa children, and they are whare w\u0101nanga children, and, therefore, they have the gift and the benefit of two languages. They are fully literate in both those languages. Can the Minister assure M\u0101ori speakers, M\u0101ori people\u2014in fact, ensure the committee of the whole House\u2014that that is understood in the design? I\u2019ll just wait. [The Hon James Meager replaces the Hon Louise Upston as Minister in the chair] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EI\u2019m sorry. I\u2019m\u2014can I continue? Sorry, I wasn\u2019t sure whether James Meager\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254018ad4b8ae4eb3bdc9ed108bc0a80f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s your call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240adb43012174c75af3167e68e867c2e\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014was able to hear my interest in the questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ESo, just to come back to k\u014Dhanga reo, kura kaupapa children, and whare w\u0101nanga people, all of those awesome young ones that are coming through\u2014they are literate in both languages, which is a missing piece in the House, and, therefore, there is a concern there for me whether that capacity has been understood in the design of this new-ish tool. I suspect that it won\u2019t be, and that is something that I expect the Minister to have a response to and to give us any level of confidence that that is appreciated in design. If you\u2019ve got an algorithm going on, in what language are we talking, because you can only say, \u201CWell, it\u2019s the English literacy, Meno; it can\u2019t be M\u0101ori.\u201D So can anybody\u2014the current Minister in the chair or the Minister for Social Development and Employment\u2014give us any confidence that the algorithm understands M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1fd97b006804582880afe53e28ce0b2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just check that the member is referring to clause 5? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220725e1461b364ab38806c54c71a2cdb8\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, and the earlier response was that \u201CWell, there is an algorithm.\u201D\u2014except algorithms come from language, so whose language? It\u2019s English, not M\u0101ori, and how, then, will it even be able to understand and appreciate, in the algorithm, te reo M\u0101ori, tikanga M\u0101ori\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238ab35c407c340c984f3a2b616400d95\u0022\u003EBenjamin Doyle\u003C/span\u003E: Ingoa M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210d5928bdaca406cabcabbd512ad1fa1\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014or ingoa M\u0101ori? It simply cannot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ESo, again, right at the outset, it fails, and what it does is it forces the likes of the Hon James Meager and me to actually just, down the one way, say, \u201CLook, it\u2019s English, and that\u2019s all that matters, Mariameno, so just stop having feelings about that.\u201D But it is serious. Despite those good things, it is a serious and valid question, and not at all am I seeing it. Despite that it is said to be small, it is not a flippant answer that I\u2019m looking for. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0473d9263f24e9fb118c6cffc5099bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0473d9263f24e9fb118c6cffc5099bd\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, for allowing me to take my second call. I have some specific questions around clause 5 that I\u2019ll lead with, and then I\u2019ll go into the departmental report, which has had no discussion or context yet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll start with my specific questions around clause 5\u2014in particular, around the use of artificial intelligence (AI)\u2014and the previous speaker, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi, articulated some actually really thoughtful ideas about artificial intelligence. With a lot of the so-called AI, or language-learning, models, there\u2019s a huge body of academic research that proves that they do have Western-centric biases in them, so it\u2019s really important that we bring those perspectives into this committee because this would have been the select committee and submitters would have brought that point in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll go into my specific questions now. We\u2019re using automated decision-making (ADM), and that decision making is currently being used by the Ministry of Social Development, I believe, in processing child support payments. I want to ask\u2014and this is something that would have come up in the select committee\u2014what has been the current experience with the ADM that\u2019s being used for the child support payments? Have there been any reports on the efficacy of the ADMs as it\u2019s currently being used, have there been any biases that have been detected, how has the ADM evolved, and how is the ADM going to evolve and change in response to the additional scope of requirements that it\u2019s being made to undertake, because, currently, it\u2019s quite a very narrow scope. Will the MSD be using a more sophisticated ADM to process the increased responsibilities that it\u2019s being asked to deliver?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI do have specific questions around the ADM, like: what exactly is it? Is it simply a spreadsheet with some weightings? Is it a language-learning model? If it\u2019s a language-learning model, what exactly is it: is it ChatGPT, is it Deepseek, or is it one of those European ones, like Mistral? I\u2019m really interested as someone who is, I guess, the Green Party\u2019s resident crypto bro on what technologies are actually being used and what future AI is actually being used by the department. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll go now into my questions about the departmental report because, as I\u2019ve mentioned, there\u2019s been no discussion about it, and I also note that my colleague Benjamin Doyle also has some questions about M\u0101ori data sovereignty\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f5ce77e03f44393b7ad5cc4bcd96c30\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: As it relates to a clause. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2c2b61389144b1e8afb98a1d1d447ff\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014as it relates to clause 5. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e52362538cc4d97b7887457bcd10517\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0ee9a0013424ad499ae89d7d3baea20\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, absolutely\u2014as it relates to clause 5. M\u0101ori data sovereignty is absolutely about algorithms, and so it relates to clause 5 and they\u2019ll be wanting to take a call. But on to the departmental report. On page 5 of the departmental report, at paragraph 2.3.1, it says that the regulatory impact statement was assessed as only partially meeting the quality assurance criteria. So how far short was it of actually meeting the full criteria\u2014it\u2019s concerning that it\u2019s not meeting the full criteria, to my mind\u2014and how much more work needs to have been done?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve noticed another discrepancy in the numbers that have been provided in the regulatory impact statement and the departmental report. The departmental report mentions $158 million of savings under page 6, whereas the regulatory impact statement mentions $238 million of savings. That is quite a substantial gap between them, so I really would like the Minister to actually just show us the money, because that would be the best way for us to actually tease out why there are discrepancies between the departmental report and the regulatory impact statement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI have some questions around paragraph 3.3, which is the consistency with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act (BORA). This departmental report, as its written, says that it\u2019s TBC, but I\u2019ve taken the liberty to check the website and there is a BORA report that\u2019s now there, and in that BORA report it says that it\u2019s for an earlier version and not the final copy. So how early was the version that was supplied for the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act report, and what is the difference between the report that was supplied to the Attorney-General for the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act report as it is? Because, even though in the previous version that was supplied to the Attorney-General\u2019s Office, they expressed that they were satisfied it did meet the BORA test and they also expressed some concerns that there was some prima facie limitation around freedom of expression, but that was an earlier version, and so I\u2019m interested to see how it\u2019s evolved. I\u2019ll take my seat now so that my other colleagues can take a call. But I\u2019m keen to get answers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022c07c03e44f8c49d3a762b7f8647c5233\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c07c03e44f8c49d3a762b7f8647c5233\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I should feel slightly insulted\u2014I have been following this debate from my office, like most MPs, but I\u2019ve been kind of rolled in to speak on an area on behalf of older people, and I don\u2019t know why that\u2019s the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s in regard to clause 4 and it is around the mandatory reviews, and I\u2019m just wanting to ask a few questions of the Minister for Social Development and Employment on the basis that for elderly people, a mandatory annual review of their disability allowance or their accommodation supplement is going to be an incredibly stressful threat to them. Most of us would understand, if we\u2019re dealing with older people when they have to go and get their driver\u2019s licence renewed, that to have a review of core income for them every year would be quite horrific for them. So the question to the Minister\u2014there are a number of questions, actually. But one of them might be that given, potentially, there are 100,000 people on supported living payments and there are 125,000 who get the disability allowance, if many of them are going to be reviewed, or a large number of them, firstly, it\u2019s the resource required for that to occur in a fair way and in a way that\u2019s processed quite quickly so that older people don\u2019t have this cloud hanging over them, basically, from year to year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIf we just think of ourselves here in this Parliament, we have a review every three years, and that sometimes seems quite stressful every three years. It\u2019s somewhat hypocritical, if not unfair and unjust, to then turn around, particularly to older people. This is not, for the most part, a dynamic community. Their circumstances don\u2019t change like that of, say, an 18-year-old or a 25-year-old. For the most part, they\u2019re probably locked in, many of them, unfortunately, due to disabilities, or are relying on accommodation supplement, and to have that reviewed every year\u2014the question to the Minister: do the agencies have the resources to do that in a fair and timely way, and what\u2019s the cost-benefit analysis of that, or the cost of going through that, on the assumption that these older people have had their circumstances changed in some way that warrants the removal of a disability? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EMany will have had to go through a process to get the disability allowance. To then think that, well, they\u2019re going to get better or they\u2019ve got a major change of circumstances\u2014indeed, some might. But a review every year\u2014that is something that we struggle with. So it is a question to the Minister of what is the cost-benefit analysis of doing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe other question is: who was consulted in this process? Was it Grey Power, or were the disability groups consulted? What was the feedback from those groups as to what the effect will be on their mental health of the pressure and the stress on those groups, and, indeed, is it a net benefit? There might be a saving to the Crown, but if we end up paying more through mental health support or other areas of hospital care because people have got stressed or haven\u2019t been able to stay in their accommodation, then the question is: are we making progress?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ESo the question to the Minister: what\u2019s the cost-benefit analysis, who was consulted, and, indeed, does the Minister in the chair, on behalf of the Minister for Social Development and Employment, think that threatening elderly people with a review of their benefit every 12 months\u2014does he think that\u2019s fair for New Zealand society?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022 data-id=\u00222089899ac07043b6993224d2fcc0a1d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222089899ac07043b6993224d2fcc0a1d9\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to speak to my tabled amendment, which will amend clause 4, \u201CNew subpart 3A of Part 6 inserted\u201D. I think that this would really help the Minister for Social Development and Employment, because we have heard from the Minister, and we can see in the regulatory impact statement that there were limitations on consultation. Though the Minister did say that she had consulted with the Minister of disabled people, we can see that Whaikaha, or the Ministry of Disabled People, was not consulted on when the Government was drafting this legislation. That\u2019s where my amendment can come in and help here, because what we want to do is make sure that any notification is going to be reasonable in terms of the person receiving it being able to actually read it and have access to the information, and it is just to limit the barriers to disabled people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003ESo I would like to ask the question that the Minister consider my amendment, and also a further question to that is: what advice has the Minister sought about the effects that this legislation will have on Braille readers and whether any notifications are going to be in that easy-to-read format? What I\u2019ve done here is some work to help the Minister make this legislation more accessible in order to break down those barriers for disabled people who were not able to participate in the select committee process. This is about democracy and this is about all New Zealanders\u2014all of us\u2014being able to participate in the democratic process, and part of that is actually access.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EYou will see that in my tabled amendment, it\u2019s looking at that clause 4, and so after clause 4, what I am asking the Minister to consider is that we put in a new paragraph under Subpart 3A in Part 6. After new section 310D(1)(b), it would insert new subsection 310D(1)(c), which would say that \u201CMSD must first take all reasonable steps to ensure that the manner that MSD informs a beneficiary must be accessible, including but not limited to te reo M\u0101ori, Braille, and easy-to-read formats.\u201D We know that when we say \u201Creasonable steps\u201D in the law, there is precedent there, and, actually, these are really reasonable steps. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003ESo I do hope that the Minister will consider my amendment, because as we\u2019ve said, in the regulatory impact statement, on page 3, it does say who was consulted. Firstly, there was no public consultation. However, the Office of the Privacy Commissioner, the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development, K\u0101inga Ora, and Treasury were consulted, but, unfortunately, the ministry of Whaikaha was not, and we can see on page 5 of that regulatory impact statement, at point 8, specified benefits will be included. I\u2019m not going to read them all out, but I will talk about the supported living payment and the disability allowance. We know that this bill impacts a massive proportion of disabled people, and we want to just help the Minister make sure that this bill breaks down barriers for disabled people. I think that this is a really reasonable amendment, and I really hope that the Minister considers accepting it. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022665984f626544875a7cb19bf885aa81a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022665984f626544875a7cb19bf885aa81a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m very close to taking a closure motion. I\u2019m just going to give members another opportunity to come up with very new questions. The last few have been very repetitive of topics that have been covered even in the time that I\u2019ve been in the House\u2014so I\u2019m just alerting people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022aee5a7257fa64aaabff249f86d5dc9ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aee5a7257fa64aaabff249f86d5dc9ff\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to ask about the privacy consultation. What I\u2019ve picked up from the debate over time, when there have actually been many Chairs, is that my initial question about how many different kinds of benefits were included in the new sweep of who would be under review is\u2014I\u2019ve had it confirmed, not by the Minister, actually, but just simply by what the Minister hasn\u2019t said that that\u2019s an expansive list. So it can be added to under the regulations, and while it\u2019s in the explanatory note of the bill, you can have more things in there. The Minister is pointing to the explanatory note, but that says that it includes that, but it doesn\u2019t say that it stops at that, and then, later on, it talks about the regulations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ENow, the point of this is new, because there is a discussion in the regulatory impact statement (RIS) about the Privacy Act having been looked at and talked to and consulted on. But I don\u2019t know from looking at the RIS what they were told or what the parameters of what they looked at were. I\u2019m particularly interested in the gathering of information that\u2019s going on, and whether they were aware that the gathering is as wide as it is and for the purpose that it is. Usually, if you\u2019re collecting information, the person who you collect it from knows what the purpose is, and since there are issues around what is included in that list, I ask what the Privacy Commissioner was told about the scope of its advice. We haven\u2019t seen that advice, so we\u2019re in a particularly blind situation there. I\u2019d like to know what it is that the Privacy Commissioner told the Minister and what was the scope of what was put to the Privacy Commissioner. That is my first question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EAnother question is about the parts of the legislation that talk about this. The explanatory note of the bill states that \u201CWe propose to introduce legislative amendments to allow MSD to implement\u201D\u2014and then it bullet-points matters, and I don\u2019t know. That\u2019s actually in the explanatory note of the bill, so are there extra amendments coming, because that\u2019s a strange thing to see in a bill. \u201CWe propose to introduce legislative amendments\u201D\u2014is that coming later? Are we looking at further things, or have they been incorporated? Is that perhaps a mistake in it? It\u2019s a very genuine question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI also wanted to ask about the social licence issue, which I have raised in one of my speeches, and it\u2019s about the system of automated decision-making. Given that there is this issue raised in the RIS about people\u2019s genuine concern about the technology that\u2019s being used, what are the steps that the Minister intends to take to make people feel comfortable with the automated decision-making process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI know that there\u2019s a really good standard that\u2019s been adopted and there\u2019s some work in the background, but I don\u2019t think that the general public would know that and there\u2019s been no engagement with them over this. So what does the Minister propose to do, given that we\u2019ve gone from having a very narrow setting of this type of use of technology to a much broader setting? Could I know about that? It does interface with the issue about the Privacy Act, I think, so I am very keen to hear an answer to those questions. Thank you very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7f174c14616497b99ed8bdeeeba04d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7f174c14616497b99ed8bdeeeba04d6\u0022\u003EMILES ANDERSON (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fa878a27da554d00b279a67d330c7e65\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7fafc22242b48da84585d31e9725363\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7fafc22242b48da84585d31e9725363\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Rachel Boyack\u2019s tabled amendment providing that where 52 weeks is specified in the bill, it is deemed to be two years, is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe Hon Willie Jackson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 deleting new Subpart 3A is out of order as being contrary to the objects and principles of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 replacing every instance of the word \u201Creviews\u201D with an \u201Cautomated AI-dystopian review\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 replacing every instance of the word \u201Creviews\u201D with \u201Cautomated AI-dystopian review that may be inconsistent with concern about entrenching inequality\u201D is out of order as not being a serious amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 replacing every instance of \u201Cmandatory\u201D with \u201Cautomated\u201D is out of order as being contrary to the objects and principles of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new Subpart 3A of Part 6, to replace every instance of the word \u201Cspecified\u201D with \u201Cparticularised\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022488018d1ee8149698767344b64fd3875\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbd212f56ef441d4bbd33306d587fcf9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbd212f56ef441d4bbd33306d587fcf9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new Subpart 3A of Part 6, to replace every instance of the word \u201Cmandatory\u201D with \u201Ccompulsory\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bb10a6aa230a495aa8383c623ce0f4ca\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbeabe5a6cd14ce7be8dcc4307baea01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbeabe5a6cd14ce7be8dcc4307baea01\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new Subpart 6A and Part 6 of the principal Act, to replace every instance of the word \u201Creview\u201D with \u201Creview by a natural person which must not use automated AI systems of any kind unless specifically authorised by the Minister\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002292c1e254bf6045b598c0cc556d6c72fa\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00220659d78c2ae34d6cb4c68ec28b8fb3bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220659d78c2ae34d6cb4c68ec28b8fb3bf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310A, to require the Minister to consult with sector representative groups, including M\u0101 te Huruhuru, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222dca574a16f64bcca47940b3a8dc22ca\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002203672e92b65d4c12a298e016c5d8eeff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203672e92b65d4c12a298e016c5d8eeff\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310A, to require the Minister to consult with other sector representative groups, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220a9e2c22ea464468b63d5ecf59452a57\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022713bd4086ec24fbfaaa2beac208e7921\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022713bd4086ec24fbfaaa2beac208e7921\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Vanushi Walters\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310A, to add the words \u201Cexcept for an unsupported child\u2019s benefit which will not constitute a specified benefit\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002254be97df87504cccae1da31d77f379d6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000754\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 55, Noes 68. \u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3575eb1d3a14e02934c8f1a6360a5e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3575eb1d3a14e02934c8f1a6360a5e6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Vanushi Walters\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310A, to add the words \u201Cexcept for a child disability allowance which will not constitute a specified benefit\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002252810b1233424dfaabff309e579c57ca\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022845b4780faa34345b5a0c4d07714a380\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022845b4780faa34345b5a0c4d07714a380\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I\u2019m just correcting the previous vote. I should have said that the Ayes were 53; the Noes 68. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe question is that Vanushi Walters\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310A, to add the words \u201Cexcept for an orphan\u2019s benefit which will not constitute a specified benefit\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022665b623c4eae4317a34bf607cbf6697b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2523c1e2add4c5abf49fbdc69ce92b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2523c1e2add4c5abf49fbdc69ce92b9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Vanushi Walters\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310A, to add the words \u201Cexcept for New Zealand superannuation\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022da53ae14be454a62b6a42394fd8568aa\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002235ee41d4c63648239d41fde329c8ed4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235ee41d4c63648239d41fde329c8ed4f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ingrid Leary\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310A, to add the words \u201Cexcept for a veterans\u2019 pension\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022563ae7ed567c4e63a47022502d51b51d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00223b8e37038eb74caa8c06a09e2afede4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b8e37038eb74caa8c06a09e2afede4b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ingrid Leary\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310A, to add the words \u201Cexcept for assistance paid under the Guaranteed Childcare Assistance Programme\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002266bb2ebf99b74313a0454e3f8f2a4251\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002284455e0dc6cb44dc9050a90bf0a667bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284455e0dc6cb44dc9050a90bf0a667bb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 replacing the words \u201Cset out in subsection (2)\u201D with \u201Cof the alleviation of child poverty\u201D is out of order as being inconsistent with the objects and principles of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 replacing the words \u201Cset out in subsection (2)\u201D with \u201Cof the alleviation of child poverty and social inequity\u201D is out of order as being inconsistent with the objects and principles of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310B(1) to replace \u201Cmust\u201D with \u201Cmay\u201D is out of order as being contrary to the objects and principles of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EBenjamin Doyle\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310B(1) and the heading above it to replace \u201Cmust\u201D with \u201Cmay\u201D is out of order as being contrary to the objects and principles of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe question is that Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310B(1), to replace \u201Cmust\u201D with \u201Cmay\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002268e819927ebb49b4a088fef49e910382\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022041a5bab315b49efa4e336374dc0863c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022041a5bab315b49efa4e336374dc0863c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Vanushi Walters\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310A, to add the words \u201Cexcept for a youth payment which will not constitute a specified benefit\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228611c694b91c48818b5f71ccb21476bc\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00227be8192847634de4a8cfe92b76f0ae5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227be8192847634de4a8cfe92b76f0ae5a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Vanushi Walters\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310A, to add the words \u201Cexcept for a young parent payment which will not constitute a specified benefit\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002218fc6e3528534414ba42be37da280bc6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00221796e908d8224dc2b02bd4d3432ef7f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221796e908d8224dc2b02bd4d3432ef7f7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Vanushi Walters\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310A, to add the words \u201Cexcept for childcare assistance which will not constitute a specified benefit\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224801493380f8406a9c595bfc0baf1e83\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00229163f67c1d7e43d9999072f399b99226\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229163f67c1d7e43d9999072f399b99226\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310B(1)(a) to add the words \u201C52\u201D is out of order as being not in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 4 amending new section 310B(1)(a) and (b), to replace \u201C52 weeks\u201D with \u201C2 years\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c8d3f9154600463396a7780cdfe46e83\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022104a7cb8a9f7456ba543b7ee7683c5c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022104a7cb8a9f7456ba543b7ee7683c5c6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 4 amending new section 310B(1)(a) and (b), to replace \u201Cwithin\u201D with \u201Cat\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d8fa07a4d85d4d1d8e6fb64b7633a839\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0be062b838a4948bb214bdacf80f8de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0be062b838a4948bb214bdacf80f8de\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 4 amending new section 310B(1)(a) and (b), to insert the word \u201Cspecified\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f18e641d077e4ca7b87e0b3f3a793d60\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022d60b94a2307544068ddb03c49dcb9a5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d60b94a2307544068ddb03c49dcb9a5e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 4, amending new section 310B(1)(a) and (b), to replace \u201C52 weeks\u201D with \u201Ca period determined by the chief executive after consultation\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002282086487c2e9400281447b0bda93fe7b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6130659374e46f2bda5bd30b43e2d0a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6130659374e46f2bda5bd30b43e2d0a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310B(2) to replace \u201Cascertain\u201D with \u201Cdetermine\u201D is out of order as not offering any significant change in the meaning of the provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310B(2) to replace \u201Cpurpose\u201D with \u201Cintended purpose\u201D is out of order as not offering any significant change in the meaning of the provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310B(2)(a) and (b) to replace \u201Centitled\u201D with \u201Celigible\u201D is out of order as not offering any significant change in the meaning of the provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310B(3)(a)(i) to replace \u201Ccommenced\u201D with \u201Cstarted\u201D is out of order as not offering any significant change in the meaning of the provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310B(3) to replace \u201Cno later than\u201D with \u201Cwithin\u201D is out of order as not offering any significant change in the meaning of the provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310C(1) to replace \u201Cmust\u201D with \u201Cshould\u201D is out of order as not offering any significant change in the meaning of the provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310B(1)(b) to add the words \u201C52\u201D is out of order as being not in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe question is that Ingrid Leary\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310B(3) to replace \u201Cmust\u201D with \u201Cmay\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002287bc2d204dc44ee6898e43fe16ee12d8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022b98688fe1b0b489c8d193ec096e05b07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b98688fe1b0b489c8d193ec096e05b07\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310B(3) to replace \u201Cmust\u201D with \u201Cmay\u201D is out of order as being the same in substance as a previous amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310B(3) to add the words \u201C52\u201D is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310B(5) is out of order as being outside of the scope of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310C(3) to replace \u201Cnot being able\u201D with \u201Cunable\u201D is out of order as not offering any significant change in the meaning of the provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 replacing the words after \u201Ccircumstances have changed\u201D in new section 310C with \u201Cmaterially, having regard to the overall fairness of the circumstances\u201D is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 replacing the words after \u201Ccircumstances have changed\u201D in new section 310C with \u201Cmaterially, having regard to the overall fairness of the circumstances of the beneficiary and their household\u201D is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 replacing the words after \u201Ctime allowed\u201D in new section 310C with \u201Cwith absolute discretion in the interests of fairness to the beneficiary\u201D is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 replacing the words after \u201Ctime allowed\u201D in new section 310C with \u201Cwith absolute discretion in the interests of fairness to the beneficiary, their wh\u0101nau and community\u201D is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, inserting new section\u00A0310C(1A) into the bill, relating to processes for completing a review, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022902f63b3c1f44587a0b9073d0ca6bc5b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022a105243e5644429e912fe6d6cd811141\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a105243e5644429e912fe6d6cd811141\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, inserting new section 310D(2A) into the bill, relating to MSD taking reasonable steps, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222430bb4d87fe4504ad6b5360fcbd104c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00225b06605ebe37443fb5228d7d4bf7d6b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b06605ebe37443fb5228d7d4bf7d6b1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Benjamin Doyle\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, amending new section 310C(2) to replace \u201Cdetermines\u201D with \u201Cascertains\u201D is out of order as not offering any significant change in the meaning of the provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe question is that Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310C(2)(a), to include the words \u201Cwith feedback from the affected beneficiary\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022298443d0b4974530a7dcbe2d2117e0bc\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022ebfa07ea2e764f6dab9ba29f0645a2ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ebfa07ea2e764f6dab9ba29f0645a2ea\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310C(3), to replace \u201C20 working days\u201D with \u201C25 working days\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f80d2de806d14de3bf4e170c467fa22a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002298a86472ec61409fbe8b731e32288fbb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298a86472ec61409fbe8b731e32288fbb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310C(3), to replace \u201C20 working days\u201D with \u201Ca date specified by the beneficiary\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022890de69b4d014d3abb57d3bbeae8f503\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0c12ac4d9de4f69b9d36d8fc363d1b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0c12ac4d9de4f69b9d36d8fc363d1b6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310C(3), to replace \u201C20 working days\u201D with \u201C30 working days\u201D, be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b19e80f5882a4acf901397c0db096721\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002250c3df02493a4db698102907448fdd07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250c3df02493a4db698102907448fdd07\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310C(4), to replace \u201Cmust\u201D with \u201Cmay\u201D, be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227f534bf00d1d48d2aa5473e5fa05f672\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022947075c0752e466b8c5f90bbe3f086e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022947075c0752e466b8c5f90bbe3f086e8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310C(4) to replace \u201Cmust\u201D with \u201Cmay\u201D is out of order as being the same in substance as a previous amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310C(4), to replace \u201Cthe end of the day before\u201D with \u201Cthe day after\u201D, be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224308243f68c643f09f5fb7a33c41a1fd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022d44655be3a5f4ecaada9314fca5a1ff2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d44655be3a5f4ecaada9314fca5a1ff2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Willie Jackson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310C(4), to include a 30 - working-day delay to a suspension under that section, be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d2377c0f857a40049e7a43abdf3f877c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022914d5791613e4d0db0ac1a855644deaf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022914d5791613e4d0db0ac1a855644deaf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Francisco Hernandez\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310C(5)(a) to insert \u201Cor\u201D after \u201Csubsection (1)\u201D is out of order as not offering any significant change in the meaning of the provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, inserting \u201Cemergency benefit\u201D into the benefits listed in new section 310C(6), be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002255882dfbc24c41109b47d0b9f2aebf73\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022bfe0ea64cb744ce0a2528195a94f448f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bfe0ea64cb744ce0a2528195a94f448f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, inserting \u201Cstudent allowance\u201D into the benefits listed in new section 310C(6), be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ec132a91264b4900b4c2e66c003f615f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222c787cd5601944a9b8ef5d4ee13414c8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003Eclause 4, inserting \u201CJobseeker Support\u2014Health Condition or Disability\u201D into \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00221bc2517d3e5f45a2add85a5a7c84bdde\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221bc2517d3e5f45a2add85a5a7c84bdde\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Willie Jackson\u2019s tabled amendment to the benefits listed in new section 310C(6), be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223e1ac4d4b8b844eba829f97b247990f8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310C(7), to replace \u201Cmust\u201D with \u201Cmay\u201D, be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0c25522223846e187a4d1eb58590a8e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0c25522223846e187a4d1eb58590a8e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00226f821dc349134d78a89827feaea7b171\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f821dc349134d78a89827feaea7b171\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 inserting new subsection (7A) into new section 310C be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229347ad617bbb48a6938248e0024cd5fc\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022ecacecf4edfa4e209205a7425600e97d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ecacecf4edfa4e209205a7425600e97d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Francisco Hernandez\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310C(7) to replace \u201CMSD must\u201D with \u201CMSD may\u201D is out of order as being the same in substance as a previous amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe question is that Kahurangi Carter\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310C(8)(a), to replace \u201C8 weeks\u201D with \u201C12 weeks\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022da953119d8c24037bc8ce5b4886edb06\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002279362b791b0b470f91809923941e73cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279362b791b0b470f91809923941e73cf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Francisco Hernandez\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310C(8)(a), to replace \u201Cstarting immediately\u201D with \u201Cstarting 4 weeks after\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fd99e4f1a7fd411d9a6d7c855f2fcc7e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2a48f0e7f814cadac99f66119ca9656\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2a48f0e7f814cadac99f66119ca9656\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m just getting some clarity on some questions that needed to be put but that were not put, and then we will continue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, inserting \u201Cjobseeker support\u201D into the benefits listed in new section 310C(6), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002253e4a067a1154dac9aceac9844975a89\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00228eeb50b14468482fb7771554720d7e22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228eeb50b14468482fb7771554720d7e22\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, inserting \u201Cworking for families\u201D into the benefits listed in new section 310C(6), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221278d1a7b2b54f08ab5c545b323cd3c2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022a73351761bfa4334aa4083d202c8e3ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a73351761bfa4334aa4083d202c8e3ed\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, inserting \u201Csole parent support\u201D into the benefits listed in new section 310C(6), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b3caf21c453d4f63b47fe25fdcd937b2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00221592281cc1494e82b8760dd7d3114e32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221592281cc1494e82b8760dd7d3114e32\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, inserting \u201Cemergency housing\u201D into the benefits listed in new section 310C(6), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223b91de048a3741ed90213301af307da9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002250bd9633291045cd8a21d56929b9c29d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250bd9633291045cd8a21d56929b9c29d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re just doing a check to make sure that we\u2019ve got all the questions that need to be put. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, inserting \u201Cdisability allowance\u201D into the benefits listed in new section 310C(6), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a14f4c949a7646f5b53b11bbc7178342\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002240be5b313c97497ca6e34bd9ef9daed5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240be5b313c97497ca6e34bd9ef9daed5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, inserting \u201Cspecial disability allowance\u201D into the benefits listed in new section 310C(6), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022007ddf77439f4149af8afb46a71b34ce\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00221c8cc8f7da034219a6f5ed8a6703302d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c8cc8f7da034219a6f5ed8a6703302d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, inserting \u201Cwinter energy payment\u201D into the benefits listed in new section 310C(6), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022346e682c44d941e79d4f28abb9312ec3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022a188bbb5a9844bda9c159f4495c93304\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a188bbb5a9844bda9c159f4495c93304\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Rachel Boyack\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4, inserting \u201Csupported living payment\u201D into the benefits listed in new section 310C(6), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222728d6d9ab1447a8b094386b6ad1bcc0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022c46173b8174544699ce3d9cbc7389508\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c46173b8174544699ce3d9cbc7389508\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310C(8)(b), to replace \u201C2 years\u201D with \u201C3 years\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c7dac68d0bc84fcf81dfef039d539725\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe9a614e2ed14e3eb63b1effd9ea969e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe9a614e2ed14e3eb63b1effd9ea969e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310C(9), to delete \u201C113\u201D and \u201C290\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022650ab6d70977463887ac85fb654fe24d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00226a7456b429634b8ebe1a43721255e4c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a7456b429634b8ebe1a43721255e4c2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310D(1), to replace \u201C20\u201D with \u201C30\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002209f91c02f7544cd9b9c7b02c12ae4288\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022b22d722943f14b789e6627078be66c28\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b22d722943f14b789e6627078be66c28\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310D(1), to replace the words after \u201CMSD must\u201D with \u201Ceither in a reasonable timeframe or\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002289578372d13f476b80d5e1e0dc59c347\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9c5529677f74b3b81f50bfb5293263b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9c5529677f74b3b81f50bfb5293263b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310D(1), to replace the words after \u201CMSD must\u201D with \u201Ceither in a reasonable timeframe or a period of 90 days or\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022657ed1053d0e468a8b049e01b9103175\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00227b47fade13d040efa5faba722323137b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b47fade13d040efa5faba722323137b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Kahurangi Carter\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310D(1), to replace \u201Cat least 20 working days\u201D with \u201Cat least 8\u00A0weeks\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227a738ea9fc6c49568a9ceb626d0a7645\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022af8924ad511f469fb2131b14de162836\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af8924ad511f469fb2131b14de162836\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Francisco Hernandez\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310D(1)(a) to add \u201Cand\u201D after \u201Cfor the review\u201D is out of order as not offering any significant change in the meaning of the provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question is that Kahurangi Carter\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 inserting new paragraph (c) into section 310D(1) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d1c64fe1d2eb4d588bf7d91eb0b2d762\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022a576efb170d24c13baacaffbfc4c2ee1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a576efb170d24c13baacaffbfc4c2ee1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310D(2), to insert the words \u201Cthe benefit of compassionate consideration and\u201D before the words \u201Ca notice\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225188e76b0c654ccdbbd5bfaae3bd8e77\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea0c761ace904168a610fb285523fee0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea0c761ace904168a610fb285523fee0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310D(2), to insert the words \u201Cthe benefit of compassionate consideration, and justice, and\u201D before the words \u201Ca notice\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022069e40ad88454119906faeca5663b91c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002225c289b43ad644a686c9feb36ca4a5fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225c289b43ad644a686c9feb36ca4a5fb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310D(2)(a)(iii), to replace \u201Cwill be\u201D with \u201Cmight be\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227867354158364245852724d1a0c8c2b7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002284df1bc559cf46138c672aa304058606\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284df1bc559cf46138c672aa304058606\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310D(2)(a)(iii) replacing \u201Cfails to\u201D with \u201Cunable to\u201D is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section\u00A0310D(3), to replace the words after \u201Cnot apply\u201D with \u201Cto this Part 3A - mandatory reviews\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002243ddae8864564ec2bb4ec487c4ff68a4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2b38a55161544778cbc3a8aebb8fe2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2b38a55161544778cbc3a8aebb8fe2e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310D(3) to replace the words after \u201Cnot apply\u201D with \u201Cto this Part 3A\u2014mandatory reviews and all subsequent clauses in this Act\u201D is out of order as being contrary to the objects and principles of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310D(b)(ii) and (iii) to replace \u201Cway\u201D with \u201Cmanner\u201D is out of order as not offering any significant change in the meaning of the provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310D(4), to replace the words \u201Cas soon as practicable\u201D with \u201Con the day before the suspension ends\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002267fb13924b6043d9bb3167625c89072f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00226736e6dcd14d4a05afc995ed30601aa3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226736e6dcd14d4a05afc995ed30601aa3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310E, to replace every instance of the word \u201CMSD\u201D with \u201Cthe Minister\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002208756ece67dd441eaa656d0200aadf62\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002211446874163e4de5b28b2123a516ed70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211446874163e4de5b28b2123a516ed70\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310E, to replace every instance of the word \u201CMSD\u201D with \u201Cthe relevant agency\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002261e4d2004ee348f4a18a00e8c4ed1252\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022814ec91c2044459fa94986829af8205b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022814ec91c2044459fa94986829af8205b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310E(1)(b), to delete \u201Cor times, or at all times\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ce118d8ad2804d158c6fb35e3719ce87\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002263d03425915242c1a464a87419e7a6cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263d03425915242c1a464a87419e7a6cf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310F to replace the words \u201Ccomplete a review\u201D with \u201Cat all\u201D is out of order as being contrary to the objects and principles of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310F to add the words \u201Cparticularly if the consequences of the review would cause hardship, homelessness or poverty\u201D is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310F to replace the words after \u201Ccomplete a review\u201D with a full stop is out of order as being contrary to the objects and principles of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310F to insert \u201Cand Subparts 12 to 14\u201D after \u201Csections 326 to 330\u201D is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EFrancisco Hernandez\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310F to insert \u201Cand Subparts 9 to 11\u201D after \u201Csections 326 to 330\u201D is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310F to insert \u201Cand Subparts 7 and 8\u201D after \u201Csections 326 to 330\u201D is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310F to insert \u201Cand Subparts 2 to 4\u201D after \u201Csections 326 to 330\u201D is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EBenjamin Doyle\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310F to insert \u201Cand Subparts 5 and 6\u201D after \u201Csections 326 to 330\u201D is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310G(2) to insert \u201Creasonably\u201D after \u201Cas soon as\u201D is out of order as not offering any significant change in the meaning of the provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310G, to replace the word \u201Cpracticable\u201D with \u201Cfair\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e78339f52f45450594aff87e7bb8ded6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022459a985ce8224e4fa93577a0be348c82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022459a985ce8224e4fa93577a0be348c82\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310G, to replace the word \u201Cpracticable\u201D with \u201Creasonable and just\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002297072d820b2f461e931fc44feaf0d3dd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc728190c3954e6c800eba97ab1e3747\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc728190c3954e6c800eba97ab1e3747\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310G(2), to replace the word \u201Creview\u201D with \u201Cconsider the fairness of\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f122267aee38462bb4f9ae6ca90e6466\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002231dbb5a7754940658962da2a91c0acbc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231dbb5a7754940658962da2a91c0acbc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310G(2), to replace the word \u201Creview\u201D with \u201Cconsider the fairness and appropriateness of\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002234e6f22ba5734914bec4a8458baa9156\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00221d7799ef1feb4692b4a432d89df4d003\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d7799ef1feb4692b4a432d89df4d003\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310H, to replace the words after \u201Capply\u201D with \u201Cif in the view of MSD that would result in a fair outcome\u201D, be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b584e3c5024f4fe7a5ef81b49f175c18\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022f737ae7f96c3499484bae00d91557576\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f737ae7f96c3499484bae00d91557576\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310H, to replace the words after \u201Capply\u201D with \u201Cif in the view of MSD that would result in a fair outcome under the assessment of a natural person and not AI\u201D, be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002208019871a121487d992d315ac21affa1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00229b0a018c3560468c972cc04ed276c3bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b0a018c3560468c972cc04ed276c3bb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310H, to replace the words \u201Call necessary\u201D with \u201Call suitable\u201D, be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c090ec5214a24c9b9635592e49c50791\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022146613987b404bdeb33ca22634b21421\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022146613987b404bdeb33ca22634b21421\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310H, to replace the words \u201Call necessary\u201D with \u201Cfair and reasonable\u201D, be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002218bfd710199c4fe8a4328805675f233d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00228e79644998f944ca84bea470ea9fb75e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e79644998f944ca84bea470ea9fb75e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310H(b) by replacing the number \u201C306\u201D with \u201C311\u201D is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310H(b) by replacing the number \u201C306\u201D with \u201C310\u201D is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310H(c) to replace the words as written with \u201Cthe purposes of social security\u201D is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310H(c), to replace the words as written with \u201Cthe purposes of social security net availability for all New Zealanders\u201D, is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310H(d), to replace the number \u201C8\u201D with the number \u201C4(2)\u201D, is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310H(d), to replace the number \u201C8\u201D with the number \u201C4(3)\u201D, is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310H, to replace every instance of the word \u201Ccertain\u201D with \u201Cspecified\u201D, is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310H, to replace every instance of the word \u201Ccertain\u201D with \u201Cevery\u201D, is out of order as being not in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310H, to replace every instance of the word \u201Csection\u201D with the words \u201Cfor the avoidance of doubt, there is no application to this part of section\u201D, is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310H, to replace every instance of the word \u201Csection\u201D with the words \u201Cfor the avoidance of doubt, there is no application to this part of sections or clauses\u201D, is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000866\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310H, to replace the word \u201Call\u201D with \u201Cno\u201D, be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022345ffc6dcf7e47618155ef49afa74767\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3d7bee3104b4bab897de31329745899\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000867\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3d7bee3104b4bab897de31329745899\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 4 amending new section 310H, to replace the word \u201Call\u201D with \u201Cnone of\u201D, be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022158c9e2b26ce46cf88b0eb4dece7ceae\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022961a4481fede4b6395a50809558e004f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022961a4481fede4b6395a50809558e004f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 5 amending new section 363A(3), to include \u201Cthe fair and reasonable use of electronic systems to make decisions\u201D, is out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 5, deleting new subsection (3)(b)(i) and (ii) of section 363A, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022068684a8a89c4c4fa1d653160c51c998\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022b44b7f3726ca4f3f89c5cea53921523b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b44b7f3726ca4f3f89c5cea53921523b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 5, deleting new subsection (3)(c) of section 363A, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225928204eefc6490b8bf581cac718d56a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb646cbc9cc84901830c52d2faa0604a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb646cbc9cc84901830c52d2faa0604a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 5, deleting new subsection (3)(d) of section 363A, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226d06a753fa2848edb7b2663e880276a5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228b46c255a6a84f0e96bea3619060551e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e7b3ad7ff91c4a2bbb4dc909b41a8f34\u0022\u003EPart 2  Other amendments to principal Act \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002279c6489645f24affa134bc5b62d33f3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279c6489645f24affa134bc5b62d33f3a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to Part 2. This is the debate on clauses 6 to 8, \u201COther amendments to principal Act\u201D, and the Schedule. The question is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u002268e9296554284fe699b054d1eb29d513\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268e9296554284fe699b054d1eb29d513\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E This is a short part, but it does have some of the most concerning elements of this legislation in it. I will draw the committee\u2019s attention to the Schedule, actually. So going straight to Part 2\u2014sorry, it\u2019s new section 438A, inserted by clause 6. This is about the regulations required for specified benefits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000875\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve spoken a little bit about the fact that there is an issue with regulation-making powers in this legislation, but we haven\u2019t offered fulsome contributions because we were aware it was in Part 2. But under this section, particularly in new section 438A(1)(a) in Part 2 where it designates \u201Cthe benefits or kinds of benefits that are a specified benefit or specified benefits for the purposes of Subpart 3A of Part 6.\u201D The problem with this is I see the word \u201Cdesignating\u201D, so I\u2019m hoping that the Minister for Social Development and Employment can clarify that this is the designation only, not creation of the benefits that are specified. Even then, it\u2019s problematic to go into regulations, but it would be great to have that in the Hansard. There are two issues. One is that it\u2019s in regulations, as I\u2019ve said, and the other one is that it\u2019s the kinds of benefits, which means that it\u2019s opening the door to saying that there could be other benefits that are not currently even thought of or created that might suddenly find themselves being made in secondary legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000876\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ENow I\u2019d like to turn to the Legislation Design and Advisory Committee\u2019s Legislation Guidelines: 2021 Edition\u2014it\u2019s known as the LDAC. For people at home, this is the Bible, if you like, of how to write proper laws. In 14.1, it\u2019s really clear that \u201CLegislation should not delegate a power to make secondary legislation in respect of matters that are more appropriate for an Act.\u201D In it, it talks specifically about how it\u2019s OK if it\u2019s minor or technical details for the implementation and operation of the ACT, but matters that affect fundamental human rights in a significant way should not be included. Yes, it admits that there are some grey areas, but I would submit that does not apply in this case. If we look at it, it\u2019s teased out, it talks about \u201Cmatters of significant policy\u201D and \u201Cmatters significantly affecting fundamental human rights\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000877\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ENow, when we\u2019re talking about benefits, we\u2019re talking about people\u2019s ability to live quality lives, to not be on the street, to have food on the table, and to have lives with dignity. I don\u2019t think there would be any dispute that when we\u2019re talking about housing, food, shelter, and those fundamental things in the hierarchy of human needs, that those are fundamental human rights. So, clearly, this should not be relegated to regulation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000878\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s been done very deliberately. If I look at some of the benefits that are not captured by the exemption\u2014and we\u2019ve seen amendments on them: Working for Families; the winter energy payment, that\u2019s about people being warm; the widow\u2019s benefit; the supported living benefit, which we still don\u2019t have clarity about; jobseeker support; the special disability allowance; the student allowance; the young parent allowance; sole parent support; young parents. These currently are not exempted. They are in the designated regulations that is going to happen in this empowering provision new section 438A, inserted by clause 6. That\u2019s a problem to us because those, even if they\u2019re in the exemptions, should be specified, and, if they\u2019re not, that should be clear, rather than relegating that. At the moment, the door is wide open. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000879\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThere is also the question of the words \u201Ckinds of benefits\u201D. Now, I\u2019m hoping the Minister will say that designating does exclude creating, but the \u201Ckinds of benefits\u201D, if we could cut that out, that would maybe close that door a little. It doesn\u2019t really resolve the problem, but this is wide open now to give this Government, which doesn\u2019t like beneficiaries, lots of power to be able to put a whole lot of other things in there, call them benefits and say, \u201CWe are now going to capture those.\u201D in the new bill that is being slammed through urgency today. That is completely unacceptable, and in my view, goes against the LDAC.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000880\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d like to see what the Minister has to say about that. Coming up, I think there are also going to be some other really important questions about retrospectivity and the application of this Act, so bear with us, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u002256e824aeaab9488f8cf2bd5ec6d00990\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000881\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256e824aeaab9488f8cf2bd5ec6d00990\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I also have a question for the Minister for Social Development and Employment around new section 438A, inserted by clause 6, but I\u2019m coming at regulations from a different angle, and particularly when it comes to regulation-making power (RMP). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000882\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EOne of the things that we have seen, particularly with bills under urgency, is that they don\u2019t have the chance to even go through a vetting process or review process from some of committees here in Parliament itself, one of them being the Regulations Review Committee, which does oversee some of the secondary legislation. Now, the reason I mention this is because when we are looking at the way that this particular bill is worded, what we are risking is potentially elements of ultra vires. I was wondering whether the Minister or officials have considered in their analysis around instances or risk of ultra vires and what that would mean from a perspective of either judicial review or\u2014let\u2019s say, for example\u2014a complaint to the Regulations Review Committee under Standing Order 327(2)(c), to give an example. So my question for the Minister is: when something like this is drafted, has the Minister considered the potential risks and the scope of the regulation-making power in this particular provision?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000883\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EAlso, this is something that we see in other legislation, particularly legislation under urgency\u2014because, again, I understand there are certain requirements, etc. But what we also see in some of this other legislation around regulation-making power is the ability for there to be a review within a certain period of time. That is also something that we\u2019re not seeing in this specific section 438A.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000884\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI also want to ask a follow-on from my previous question around the scope of the regulation-making power and the potential risks of the regulation-making power and whether the Minister would then consider my amendment, which is to introduce a new subclause (1A), which allows there to be a provision for review no later than four years after this particular section being introduced. That\u2019s a very reasonable amendment, because it allows sufficient time for anything to be vetted, for this to be fully implemented by the commencement date, and for there to be a number of years for us to be able to track some of that data. And, indeed, in some of the legislation we\u2019re introducing RMP, particularly as secondary legislation, we do see that review as a baseline safety net for anything that potentially might happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000885\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ESo those are my three questions on the specificity of the regulation-making power. I know other people may have questions around the specificity around the designation of certain kinds of benefit, but my question is on the risks, the possibility of ultra vires, the possibility of a judicial review or of a complaint to the Regulations Review Committee under Standing Order 237, and whether the Minister would consider my amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002290fb57b527f9421a9cef8b817e6ba370\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290fb57b527f9421a9cef8b817e6ba370\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I do want to just remind members that the list of benefits that\u2019s included is very clear because they are payments that don\u2019t expire. So I was surprised when members were considering changes to this, that benefits that are due to expire were included in some of the amendments. I can assure the committee in terms of the Labour member\u2019s question that the design of the regulation-making power has been aligned with the Legislation Design Advisory Committee guidelines and passes that threshold.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u00221b3435a7b7fe4a5ea37dcd7b67f0b436\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000887\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b3435a7b7fe4a5ea37dcd7b67f0b436\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I wanted to take a call on the Schedule\u2014this is the \u201CNew Part 11 inserted into Schedule 1\u201D. I wanted to look at clause 105, and this is the \u201CFirst mandatory review \u2026 for specified benefit granted and commences before commencement date\u201D. The way I read this is that\u2014and even the other provisions in Part 2 as well\u2014it\u2019s creating the potential as well that if a new benefit where there\u2019s not a review, as she just outlined, is introduced by the Minister for Social Development and Employment\u2014say she decides to introduce a new type of benefit\u2014some of this can be used, which then begs the question as to whether she has any intention of introducing any new types of benefit. That\u2019s how I\u2019m reading it, and therefore, you know, I\u2019d be keen to get some clarification about this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThis is particularly important\u2014and her official\u2019s giving some notes\u2014because, you know, for example, when we were discussing the Social Security Amendment Bill that had provisions around automatic decision-making, the Minister didn\u2019t tell us at the time that she intended to use this piece of legislation following up the Social Security Amendment Bill that broadened the use of automatic decision-making. So now I wonder if I\u2019m interpreting the Schedule correctly\u2014whether, then, she also has an intention to introduce new types of benefits that don\u2019t have a review to which this could then apply. If that is the case, I\u2019d be keen to give the Minister the opportunity to offer some transparency to the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI say this because we didn\u2019t get engagement in the previous debate around, for example, the breakdown around the savings and where they\u2019re going to be coming from, the breakdown around the benefit types. We didn\u2019t get engagement around the algorithm and presenting it to the committee. And we didn\u2019t get any engagement from the Minister around giving us the unredacted part of the regulatory impact statement. So I\u2019m really keen to get some engagement from the Minister around whether she intends to add any new types of benefits that are not reviewed and therefore would then be captured with this, and, if so, what are they and whether any work\u2019s started around this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000890\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThen, following up on my colleague Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s questions in relationship to the broader sort of reviews, I did want to ask whether the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) already did an analysis on the potential staffing utilisation that could occur as part of MSD as part of these reviews, and, if so, what is the intended potential cost that could arise from that? If she has any information from whatever MSD has produced as a result, that would be really, really useful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000891\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI say this again because, looking at the budget lines, it seems like MSD isn\u2019t getting\u2014well, the way I read it, and we didn\u2019t have a lot of time because we, basically, jumped straight into this debate, is that there doesn\u2019t seem to be a huge increase in staffing capacity at MSD. I note as well from questions I asked under, I think, the Official Information Act, there still remains a large amount of vacancies being unfilled by MSD. So I do wonder, in terms of the sort of reviews in Part 2, whether the Minister is confident that there will be enough capacity for MSD to progress with those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000892\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EBut just to recap, I\u2019m keen to hear around the Schedule in new Part 11 as to whether she intends to introduce any new types of benefits that could be captured, and the second part. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2c918fe2e494505b2d0baa5b4141041\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2c918fe2e494505b2d0baa5b4141041\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I want to just confirm to the committee that the regulation-making power has been carefully designed so there is no \u201CHenry VIII\u201D clause. For the previous member, the primary legislation specifically includes benefits that can\u2019t be included in regulations, which protects parliamentary sovereignty. I have already answered questions around resources, front line, efficiency, and gains from automated decision-making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000894\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c68116a9557476c82024cc94cf85666\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the time has come for me to leave the Chair. This House will resume at 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000895\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 5.57 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00226405393017e945b4b49682f4203293eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226405393017e945b4b49682f4203293eb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the committee is resumed on the Social Security (Mandatory Reviews) Amendment Bill. When we rose for the dinner break, we were debating Part 2. Once again, the question is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022 data-id=\u00224c19ddbb92c2484284bc902eb464b7b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000897\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c19ddbb92c2484284bc902eb464b7b4\u0022\u003EBENJAMIN DOYLE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you very much. I\u2019m really pleased to be standing to speak to Part 2 and ask some questions to the Minister for Social Development and Employment as I have been waiting a little while\u2014we were voting on that last round for quite some time. I\u2019m presenting some new questions for the Minister as they pertain to Part\u00A02, clause 8, the amendments to Schedule 2, particularly subclause (1). We have reference here to automated electronic systems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000898\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003EI do want to refer, first of all, to the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s regulatory impact statement (RIS). We have some really useful information on pages 16 and 17 regarding human oversight and standard requirements. In regards to automated electronic systems, I would like to ask the Minister around the provision that is assured in this regulatory impact statement of providing a channel for challenging or appealing decisions made using automation, and how this channel must be made easily visible and accessible to the individuals impacted by the decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000899\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003EWe know through the RIS that there are some risks around the impacts that will be disproportionately affecting M\u0101ori communities. As this bill has come through under urgency, we have not had a chance to debate or tease this out in a select committee as would be standard. So we do need to present these questions here in the committee and go through them methodically and try really to earnestly get some responses from the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000900\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003EThe bill talks about automated electronic systems, which are a reference to artificial intelligence (AI), effectively. The Minister might be able to give assurances around what information she has received from community, from experts, from researchers in the field around the requirement in the RIS, or the promise that it will be made\u2014the safeguards will be in place around the use of AI. We know that community have provided their thoughts and recommendations despite there not being a select committee in order to hear from community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000901\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003EI am referring to the report that was released or presented publicly by Mana Raraunga, which is the M\u0101ori Data Sovereignty Network. This is a new point that has not been explored in any part of this debate yet\u2014data sovereignty for M\u0101ori\u2014and it\u2019s essential, as it is a part of a guarantee under article 2 of Te Tiriti o Waitangi: tino rangatiratanga over ng\u0101 taonga katoa. Data is a taonga. It is a protected right under Te Tiriti o Waitangi, and Mana Raraunga outline in their principles document, Principles of M\u0101ori Algorithmic Sovereignty as it pertains to the use\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000902\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1868d743eb8461a824f5aa6ce1ea7cc\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000903\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8efb63a9c3d4754ab0cdc81cc049250\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Are you kidding me?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000904\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296d7e9f3f59142ccb7208975111f020e\u0022\u003EBENJAMIN DOYLE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. You wouldn\u2019t know much about that on the other side, I assume. Automatic\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000905\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228881d7b73f534f1ead98a773a90ebac5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry to interrupt the member. Can you just refer me to the clause you\u2019re\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000906\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ccaa73b03fa44369e853cf6b845dd4d\u0022\u003EBENJAMIN DOYLE\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly. Thank you. Part 2, clause 8(1), the amendment to Schedule 2, which is around automated electronic systems, which is a reference to the algorithmic programming and machines used to process data. Did you find the clause?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000907\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecc19ecb13f0497aafc3b2ff644b779e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e73f9af8318418e9e93b038d72501a0\u0022\u003EBENJAMIN DOYLE\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s on page 8, around line 25.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000909\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003ESo automated electronic systems is a reference to algorithmic data collection and use. Mana Raraunga references principles of good algorithmic data sovereignty in their report presented publicly. I would like to know if the Minister has made any consideration to the principles of M\u0101ori algorithmic sovereignty as they pertain to the use of AI in data.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299dcbe8ccba5469db0b2ed7463d6f038\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just remind the member that that clause that you\u2019re referring to is a cross-reference in in terms of Part 2. It\u2019s not actually a debate on the detail that the member is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000911\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c8e30a7b6fb49b3b003b47e19d03024\u0022\u003EBENJAMIN DOYLE\u003C/span\u003E: Sure. May I reiterate my question to the Minister pertaining to that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000912\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275a4108912c14d9e9f2a7b5e267d38ff\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve got 22 seconds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000913\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261078710e41d416aa4fbf74e2120f939\u0022\u003EBENJAMIN DOYLE\u003C/span\u003E: Fabulous. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000914\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d088ed10-ea30-49bf-892c-b67c5121038f\u0022\u003ESo my question is around what information or advice has the Minister been given regarding the use of automated electronic systems as it pertains to M\u0101ori data sovereignty? Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002239b0416f942c4f768fa65f111e468d19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239b0416f942c4f768fa65f111e468d19\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the committee report progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000916\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd099d3bf58d44838351f98c5ecfc808\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Chair. Can you please confirm to the committee that it is appropriate for a Minister in the chair to move that when there are speakers that were seeking the call?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000917\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f37180f65ac94ed0b668d4f347a6f2e8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. This is a motion to report progress; it\u2019s not a closure motion. The question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000918\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000919\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022956786e0557d4b4f8268c8d5d7427a19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000920\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022956786e0557d4b4f8268c8d5d7427a19\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, the committee has considered the Social Security (Mandatory Reviews) Amendment Bill and reports that it has made progress on the bill. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000921\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000922\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002224c7fe693bdf4d20967ee67db608cf64\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000923\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224c7fe693bdf4d20967ee67db608cf64\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The bill is set down for third reading immediately. [Interruption] Oh, have I got the wrong\u2014oh, OK. The bill is set down for further consideration next sitting day. I think something\u2019s changed on us, so that\u2019s OK. We\u2019ve done that bit right. Just a moment. Let me get on the right page here. I\u2019m going to call the Hon Simon Watts, which is what I\u2019ve got on this one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000924\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222e46028086334cf3be3a283d157a6177\u0022\u003ERates Rebate Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022032b38bdd57c4fb28c1ea11062b71a3b\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u002286af640be1ab40eea8d1b2783006d4fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000926\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286af640be1ab40eea8d1b2783006d4fa\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Rates Rebate Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000927\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf834c6b3dd246dcbb1218d9673422a5\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000928\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267ab03181df14d328dcc8a390abed6d9\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Rates Rebate Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000929\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker, honourable members, I would like to thank you for considering this bill under urgency. We know it\u2019s tough out there for many Kiwis and the cost of living has significantly impacted households over the past years, and that is why this Government is working hard to grow this economy, to reduce the cost of living, and to help Kiwis get ahead. We know things won\u2019t change overnight, but our plan is making a difference. Inflation is under control. Tax relief is putting more money into Kiwi back pockets. Initiatives, like FamilyBoost, are helping with the costs of childcare for families. We recognise rising rates are adding to the challenges faced by some of the most vulnerable citizens, including many seniors living on fixed incomes. These individuals are burdened by rates that they simply cannot afford. These Kiwis deserve better. They deserve peace of mind in retirement, not financial stress. That is why we are considering this bill under urgency, as it will provide that peace of mind to our seniors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000930\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe Rates Rebate Scheme is part of a larger set of tools designed to help and support households in managing their living costs, and to address the impacts of rising rates. This bill proposes eligibility changes to the scheme that will provide additional financial relief for 66,000 more SuperGold card holders. This new threshold will be set at $45,000 per household, which is nearly $13,000 higher than the threshold for the general population. This means that for anyone paying an average level of rates and earning New Zealand superannuation, the Government will reduce your rates bills by $805 next year. Furthermore, thanks to the way the abatement thresholds function, individuals can earn more than $45,000 and still be eligible for partial rebate if they hold a SuperGold card. This allows the Government to provide financial support for some of our most vulnerable ratepayers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000931\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe changes announced today will take effect from 1 July 2025. The Government has allocated over $150 million over the next four years to support this initiative, with more than $30 million budgeted for the first year. Other changes taking effect on 1 July 2025 will increase the maximum rebate for all taxpayers from $790 to $805. Additionally, the income abatement threshold will rise from $31,510 to $32,210 for low-income ratepayers who do not hold a SuperGold card. The Rates Rebate Scheme currently assists over 100,000 low-income ratepayers in managing their living costs, and starting from 1 July 2025, we estimate that the number of individuals eligible for the scheme will increase by nearly 40 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000932\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EWhile this may seem like a small change for some, I am proud to be part of a Government that will be introducing legislation that will make the average New Zealand ratepaying couple earning New Zealand superannuation better off by more than $800. It will mean more money in the pockets of Kiwis, especially our seniors, who have worked their entire lives to enjoy their retirement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThis bill is a cost of living solution to a much wider issue the Government wants to address. Kiwis are feeling the impact of dramatic rates increases from their councils, and many feel they aren\u2019t getting better services for those increases. I want to assure Kiwis that this Government does not see this as acceptable. We have made it clear to councils that they must prioritise essential services over the nice-to-haves. Their focus needs to be on ensuring that core services, like waste collection, water infrastructure, and road maintenance are delivered brilliantly. We will also be investigating instituting a rates cap system for councils, and hope to have more to say on this shortly. As we work hard to address these broader issues, I am proud that this bill can offer immediate relief to those most vulnerable to rising rates. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002288b501699a254e0ab4729726f0f82b77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000934\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288b501699a254e0ab4729726f0f82b77\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022947f7630bc9d4259a296ceda4f2cfbc3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022947f7630bc9d4259a296ceda4f2cfbc3\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Madam Speaker. Well, it\u2019s interesting listening to the Minister of Local Government talk about and acknowledge the pressures that councils are under, because he himself is directly responsible for many of the expectations that have been placed upon councils around this country without any expectation that there will be any funding that flows from that. So, whilst he\u2019s happy to talk about how this will alleviate pressures on households, at the same time, within the same breath, and by the same sentence, he is, basically, indicating that they need to get back to basics, when they are doing more than that. Everyone around this Chamber should acknowledge the fact that local government do an amazing job in our community and they must be supported by those of us who serve in this Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000936\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party will be supporting this piece of legislation today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000937\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225658f23fdfda468b966d36034651acc1\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Great news. Excellent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000938\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274d7f4f58ed340db9a101cc8b459412c\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, their tune has changed. The Labour Party will be supporting this legislation today. However, given that this is under urgency, there are a number of questions that we will be expecting to put to the Minister for him to address. Now, one of the interesting things\u2014and we\u2019ll get to this later in the debate\u2014is that this is actually a bill that does have a regulatory impact statement (RIS). Often we don\u2019t, but this bill has a RIS. However, the RIS identifies that, given the haste with which this bill has come to the House, there are a number of holes that need to be addressed and looked into. So, as the Opposition, we will be, even though we do support the tenets of this bill, expecting, none the less, to provide some scrutiny and for the Minister and the Government to be able to respond to some of these concerns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000939\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EOne concern is the inadequate amount of time that officials have had to actually prepare a number of aspects in response. One example is that the sector hasn\u2019t really been consulted around this as to what it will mean for councils and communities. It\u2019s great to have this as an option and an opportunity, but if the Government is going to be setting up councils to fail because it\u2019s not going to be able to be administered or delivered in a way that meets local community needs, we do have some concerns around that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that, effectively, creates an additional tier for the Rates Rebate Scheme. The Rates Rebate Scheme has been around for a wee while, but, unfortunately, just under 60 percent of those who might be eligible are actually able to access it for whatever reason. I look forward to putting that to the Minister around how that could change, moving forward into the future, because it should be more, given that times are tough for folks at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe Minister talks about how this change is going to deliver real difference. When he talks about the increase that will be proposed\u2014from $790 to $805, which is the full rebate that would be available\u2014what does that actually equate to for those who are on New Zealand superannuation? It equates to an extra 58c per fortnight. So from a Minister talking about taking action to alleviate the pain and suffering that senior citizens are having in this particular community, the actual increase that he himself referred to in his introductory speech\u2014from $790 to $805\u2014equates to an extra 58c for those on New Zealand super. So it\u2019s things like that that we want to tease out. While this is important and it will provide some financial sustenance to some households, it won\u2019t provide all of it. So from a Government that crows about a Budget that is seeking to do certain things, this is certainly not something that is going to make huge inroads, really, when it comes to addressing and tackling the cost of living crisis that households are doing it tough in at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000942\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that creates those two tiers: one in terms of those who can currently access the Rates Rebate Scheme, but the other, of course, is setting a new tier or a new opportunity for those that hold a New Zealand SuperGold card, as part of that. It\u2019s interesting that this seems to have been on the cards with the Government in terms of its National and New Zealand First coalition agreement. But we have some questions. Why has it taken so long? Why has it taken so long if the ink is, basically, dry on that agreement and it was signalled? Why has it taken so long, and why have sector organisations and groups actually not had an opportunity to engage with the Government through officials around this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000943\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWhat we learnt from the RIS is that there are only five councils that had any form of input into this, and we\u2019d be interested to know what that input actually was. Whilst this is the first reading\u2014yes, at this stage, we are happy to support this, but there will be many questions as part of our scrutiny obligations that we will intend to work through as this debate progresses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u002259a063b20cce4e5484135f181203ad5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000944\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259a063b20cce4e5484135f181203ad5d\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand, as the Green Party spokesperson for seniors, to speak on this particular bill, the Rates Rebate Amendment Bill. I think one of the key things we are seeing here is that, yes, those people who are SuperGold card holders, which is the majority of people who are over 65, will be eligible for this additional rates rebate, going from $32,000 to $45,000 for SuperGold card holders. However, a couple of things, obviously, we need to follow are that there\u2019s a conception, or misconception, that anyone who is over the age of 65 will be eligible for a SuperGold card. But we must understand that those people who are not residents of Aotearoa New Zealand are not eligible, at this stage, for SuperGold cards, so, therefore, it does create a degree for people who are potentially migrants or on a working visa etc. If you are no longer eligible to buy properties here, for example, you are not actually eligible in this case under the rates rebate, even though you are over the age of 65, purely because of the fact that you are not a SuperGold card holder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000945\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EOn top of this, one of the other things that we thought was quite interesting\u2014and I wouldn\u2019t want to go into some of the more detailed things that we want to discuss at the committee stage, because, again, we are currently doing this under urgency. We\u2019re not going to have a select committee. Therefore, we\u2019re going to go straight into a second reading, so there\u2019s more things for me to discuss in the second reading of some of the things that we would like to tease out during the committee stage. But, again, painting that broader picture of this particular Rates Rebate Amendment Bill, you know we are looking at that increased threshold from $32,000 to $45,000, but it\u2019s also interesting that we\u2019re looking at it from a household perspective, as opposed to an individual perspective. So that element is also something for us to really consider when we are looking at this bill in greater detail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000946\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, on top of all of these things, in terms of what I said, the other thing that I found particularly a bit of an anomaly is that if we\u2019re going to be putting this up to a particular threshold, why have we decided to only expand it to those who are SuperGold card holders? Surely there\u2019s no need for us to create this two-tier system where, if you\u2019re not a SuperGold card holder, you are still on the lower rate of $32,000, but if you are a SuperGold card holder, you are on the higher rate of $45,000. On top of that, there is also the addition that the commencement date is 1 July 2025, but only when we see the passing of the Rates Rebate (Specified Amounts) Order 2025, which then also lifts the other ratepayers from $31,000 to $32,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000947\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ESo, even though it\u2019s a reasonably small bill, there\u2019s actually a lot of things in here that we do need to unpack. The previous speaker also mentioned the potential impact that this will have for local government and local councils. We have seen, in the regulatory impact statement, some of the additional administrative cost that\u2019s associated with that. I wonder, again, if part of that is going to be underestimated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000948\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EBut when we come into this bill, there other things that are also drawing my attention around clause 6 of this bill, \u201CSection 5 amended\u201D, in terms of the things that local authorities can or can\u2019t ask. So this is also quite interesting in the sense of why these four things are specifically limited and what additional things we are also seeing in the context of this bill, in the context of the process that people need to go through in order to require for the verification of this and for the requirement to verify the statement that they will need in order to be eligible for this\u2014or if it\u2019s simply that they are a SuperGold card holder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000949\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI think one of the final things that I want to draw the House\u2019s attention to is some of the things around the definition of \u201Ccardholder\u201D, but also in terms of the definition of \u201CSuperGold card\u201D. I think that also warrants some consideration as we are going through the second reading and going through the committee stage, and I\u2019m sure there are more things for me to discuss as a result of that. However, in saying that, we do see that if you are a couple, if you are family, and you are on a superannuation, there is a gap in there in terms of eligibility that allows you to exercise the maximum rate. So because of that, the Green Party will be supporting this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022 data-id=\u002237d77d9972ff4053859961e8fe5f1969\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000950\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237d77d9972ff4053859961e8fe5f1969\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to speak in support of this bill on behalf of the ACT Party. What we\u2019re doing here with this piece of legislation is, contrary to some of the comments previously made, removing some of the burden on councils, because the ease in which to verify SuperGold card status is easier than the current situation. We\u2019re going to be getting some money back into the hands of retirees who\u2019ve done their debt to society. They\u2019ve worked their lives and they\u2019ve seen rate rises going up at a very high rate, as we all have in the last few years. Change is coming in New Zealand. It changed in 2023. In October, local government is up for election, and people will be able to vote for more sensible councillors if they feel like their council has been profligate. But in the meantime, we need to do something to make sure that councils\u2014the effects of rate rises are not affecting some of our most vulnerable, who are SuperGold card holders. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022 data-id=\u00229ea7b4c031444e508ec6efe29e7a9f87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000951\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ea7b4c031444e508ec6efe29e7a9f87\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E This is a promise that New Zealand First campaigned on. It\u2019s part of the coalition agreement. This is this Government again delivering on what it said it would do. What this does is acknowledge that rapidly rising rates are really hurting people across the board, especially our seniors, who do not have the ability to change their income level.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000952\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EI just want to pick up one issue that Tangi Utikere raised; he said it was about 58c. No, it\u2019s not about 58c; it\u2019s about the difference between that $31,000 and the $45,000. If you are a married couple, at the moment, you get virtually nothing, depending on what your rates level is. This, for the first time, lifts the income level before the rebate begins, to approximately the level which is paid to a married couple on superannuation. It will make an important difference to those people, but, as the Minister said in introducing this, it is not going to be an excuse for councils to raise rates. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u0022b622f4fa4e2d4897a7d029405a4e0b6b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b622f4fa4e2d4897a7d029405a4e0b6b\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. I might have used a similar phrase the other night and I\u2019ll probably use it again. I expect that I\u2019m going to get a similar reaction. I was talking about a shed then, so I\u2019m waiting for the lads to start cheering\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000954\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bed586fee6194636852e12d6bf477974\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, another one!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000955\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b89a3b71f4454395936b649a9757e221\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, exactly. But, to this point, to be grateful for small mercies\u2014I mean, the points that I\u2019m making in that regard is that we see the intention and the intention seems good. So we will be supporting this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000956\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bb4317599c64ff884fb6d7b1d0eeedb\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Good choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000957\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b450d274aa2f45949a5e4f3f8adf2274\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but we will also be looking to\u2014I know. I\u2019m waiting for the applause, people, let\u2019s go\u2014[Applause] But if the intention is true\u2014if it is to provide financial support for those that might be struggling, and right now I\u2019m seeing our kaum\u0101tua\u2014that\u2019s a good thing\u2014that\u2019s a good thing. But it is in the detail that we need to examine it and I look forward to doing that at the next stages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000958\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThe size of it, when the Minister of Local Government referred to it being a small bill and we don\u2019t need to hold it up in any way, unlike the previous bill\u2014it was small but the regard was flippant. I would like to think that this might be small but it is important. And, despite the size of things, it still requires what I think is a trust and verify process, so I\u2019m looking forward to that. And our kaum\u0101tua in Te Tai Tokerau, I think they\u2019ll be very pleased, but they will still expect me to ask the questions and go, \u201CCan you trust them, Meno?\u201D So kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022193d2a3ab25c4869b98690380f146944\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022193d2a3ab25c4869b98690380f146944\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is a Government for seniors, and this Rates Rebate Amendment Bill goes further in confirming that. I am very pleased to support it as up to 66,000 more seniors are now eligible for rates support. Superannuation is up as well, following the impact of our tax relief package, and we\u2019re going to fix the Retirement Villages Act next year. This is another great day for seniors in this country, thanks to this Government. I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9a4f365420c41029b93e0035615a373\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9a4f365420c41029b93e0035615a373\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Labour\u2014Panmure-\u014Ct\u0101huhu):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you for this opportunity to debate the Rates Rebate Amendment Bill. It is really unusual for a bill that we\u2019re debating under urgency after a Budget that we get all members of Parliament, from all sides of the House, agreeing to a bill. So I would like to actually congratulate the Minister, the Hon Simon Watts, for all of his work on his bill, and his officials as well. As you heard from Tangi Utikere, who is leading us on this side of the House on this bill, we absolutely support this bill. The law that the Minister is proposing has the right intentions, but we will be asking a number of questions at the committee of the whole House stage because we think that there are lots and lots of questions that we still should have answered. From my perspective, although this bill is really great for our seniors, it stops far too short in terms of fairness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000961\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EI would also like to acknowledge something that we all know in this House, which is, here in Aotearoa New Zealand, we have an ageing population, and many of our elders, many of our seniors, who have worked hard all their lives, are now struggling, unfortunately, under the rising costs, and this actually affects their ability to stay in the homes that many of them have worked really, really hard for over many, many years\u2014the homes that they love. So this is one of the reasons why we really support the Minister on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003ELifting the income threshold to $45,000 for SuperGold card holders gives real support and assistance to many of our seniors, many of our homeowners\u2014and, for that, I congratulate the Government, and I say thank you, especially on behalf of all of the seniors in my electorate in Panmure-\u014Ct\u0101huhu who will qualify for this particular rebate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000963\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EBut here is where the agreement ends, because this bill, for all of its compassion towards our beloved seniors, it, unfortunately, leaves many others behind. It draws a sharp line between the deserving elderly homeowner, and the invisible battler who doesn\u2019t fit the box. A 68-year-old couple on superannuation and who own their own home gets help when this bill becomes law, and that\u2019s great for our seniors who qualify. But a 40-year-old woman, a hard-working solo mum who works two jobs\u2014many of them\u2014earning $42,000, renting in South Auckland, living in Panmure-\u014Ct\u0101huhu, and raising three beautiful children, gets nothing\u2014absolutely nothing; no relief, no rebate, no recognition. And if she is M\u0101ori, if she is Pacific, her odds of homeownership are lower\u2014much, much lower. Her experience of poverty is deeper. Her exclusion from this bill is almost guaranteed. That is not just a policy gap; that is a moral failure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000964\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003ESo the question is not whether this bill does something good\u2014because obviously it does; we acknowledge that and we support the bill\u2014the question is: why is this bill so narrow in its kindness and support? Why does one group get the assistance, while so many others who are hurting just as much, and sometimes more, are not getting the relief in terms of rates?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000965\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EWhat about the disabled woman who is under 65 years old, on a supported living payment, who owns her own home, but earns less than $40,000? No help for her. What about the single dad in the regions, struggling to afford rising rent? No support for him either. What about the low-income grandparents raising their mokopuna, living in an overcrowded house, priced out of homeownership entirely? No assistance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000966\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003ESo this bill is great but it is narrow. If you\u2019re old enough, this bill says, \u201CWe will help you.\u201D, but if you\u2019re not old enough, this bill says, \u201CTough luck.\u201D Hardship doesn\u2019t always follow a timetable, hunger doesn\u2019t wait for retirement, and stressing out about losing your home doesn\u2019t care about which year you were born.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000967\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003ESo, in terms of housing, which I want to touch on because the reality is that beneath this rebate bill in this debate sits a deeper problem: New Zealand\u2019s housing affordability crisis is not age specific. So for a lot of the questions that we\u2019ll be asking the Minister during the committee of the whole House stage, we hope to get some answers about this. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022acbad05921704a87a06cea988f1a0eba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000968\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acbad05921704a87a06cea988f1a0eba\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, peace has broken out in the House. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022 data-id=\u002285d37f32a6ee4a4589bf64016cda3a61\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000969\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285d37f32a6ee4a4589bf64016cda3a61\u0022\u003ELEMAUGA LYDIA SOSENE (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E That was really short-lived, but thank you. We are peaceful people. Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to be able to take a call. This is a very important bill because for our community, whilst the principle is intended to provide financial support or relief for our low-income SuperGold card holders who may otherwise face financial hardship due to high rates bills across the country, we on this side of the House really need to ask some questions around process and procedure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000970\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EI just want to draw the attention of the House, because on behalf of the New Zealand public, there is no select committee process. That\u2019s shocking because if we really care about our seniors\u2019 community, then we will give them the opportunity to be able to come and have k\u014Drero with the select committee so that they can bring their contribution. It doesn\u2019t matter how long it takes; what is important [Interruption]\u2014what is important is that they have the opportunity to follow the process. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000971\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bae6c595a9c1462ca7f363367984f0ff\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s enough!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000972\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b3fe0e9cdd84e71a493f3d628f7eb0c\u0022\u003ELEMAUGA LYDIA SOSENE\u003C/span\u003E: Calm down. I\u2019m just going to go through the regulatory impact statement (RIS) because it was a very useful document to read and to then ask further questions\u2014and I know I don\u2019t have a lot of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000973\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003ESo without the select committee process that the New Zealand public is entitled to, on page 2 of the regulatory impact statement, \u201CThe primary objective of the policy\u201D\u2014and thank goodness I get another contribution\u2014\u201Cis to provide financial relief\u201D. One of the things about rates rebates in a previous life that I had in council was there was the rates rebate option that many in my local community didn\u2019t know about. What concerns me is how this bill is being rushed through this process under urgency, which is the Government\u2019s call, but I have to ask the question and that is outlined right here in the RIS. One of the things that I wanted to ask about is how the \u201CSuccess of this policy will be demonstrated by higher uptake of the Scheme.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000974\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve heard and I\u2019ve listened to some of the contributions from the other side, and yes, we will be supporting. However, I want to ask: what communication will go out to the community at large? I am referring to M\u0101ori, Pasifika, ethnic, disabled in terms of the comms, because in the RIS, and I will find it, it doesn\u2019t have a 100 percent uptake. It says it right here in this document. And so my question is, if it\u2019s a great system that is going to benefit 66,000 pensioners who have the SuperGold card, that\u2019s really good, but that\u2019s not enough. Because if we are wanting and supporting this, then the decision made at Cabinet is for lifting the abatement levels of rates rebate for SuperGold card holders; effectively, what does that mean? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003ESo some couples will benefit, there\u2019s no doubt about it, but what about those people where English is their second or their third language and they don\u2019t understand that they are eligible, but if you don\u2019t apply to your territorial local authority, you will not have that benefit. There are questions that I have with regards to the process and the procedures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000976\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EThe other thing I wanted to raise was on page 3 where the sentence begins, \u201CThe Department is aware of a review into local government funding and financing which canvassed local authority and private sector views on the Scheme\u201D. Well, where\u2019s the public sector? I want to ask the question: why? Now, I read further and the RIS states there was not enough time. There were presentations to Cabinet, and Cabinet then approved the process. So it\u2019s wonderful to have a contribution and ask those questions because, for the record, for many of our community listening at home, they need to be aware that this is an option that they may be eligible for. Why? Because they are a holder of the SuperGold card. But what do they do? Where do they go? How do they apply for it when it comes into force, which is 1 July 2025?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000977\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003ESo we appreciate on this side that there is going to be relief for our some of our seniors, particularly those where both of them earn retirement pensioner income. It\u2019s really important that they understand that there is an option that\u2019s coming up for them and I look forward to asking questions in the committee stage. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022044d5690429043c690c44d42c9c1db07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000978\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022044d5690429043c690c44d42c9c1db07\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National):\u003C/span\u003E This bill is providing higher support to low-income SuperGold card holders. This is fantastic news, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000979\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000980\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00229d16bd9c44dd416183025dba7f5bb6cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000981\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d16bd9c44dd416183025dba7f5bb6cb\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is set down for second reading immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000982\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c2ac95aba1e34fcc82d2ca2af9877b42\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022bab217148b94442c9b86cf8b9e954d73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000983\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bab217148b94442c9b86cf8b9e954d73\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Rates Rebate Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to take a quick call on this bill as it needs to be enacted under urgency so that it can take effect before the next rating year, staring on 1 July. This urgency is justified to remedy the unjustified burden of high rates on those with low incomes. To anyone who says there is no need for urgency and that this change could wait until 2026, I ask \u201CWhy wait?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000985\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThis Government supports the concept of \u201Cageing in place\u201D, which enables elderly people to continue living in their own homes for as long as they choose. This approach not only respects the preferences of many seniors but also supports their physical and mental wellbeing by maintaining familiar surroundings and community connections. Policies promoting \u201Cageing in place\u201D emphasise the importance of accessible, safe, and affordable housing, as well as proximity to essential services, like public transportation. However, the rising costs associated with homeownership, particularly those of council rates, has meant that this is not a financially viable option for people as they age, stop working, and rely on New Zealand superannuation to cover costs. This is not fair. After a lifetime of contributing to society, seniors deserve the dignity and peace of mind that comes with financial security in retirement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000986\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EEnsuring that \u201Cageing in place\u201D remains a viable and affordable option is not just a matter of policy; it is a reflection of our values and respect for the generations that have built our communities and our country. That\u2019s why this bill proposes eligibility changes to the Rates Rebate Scheme that will provide additional financial relief for up to 66,000 SuperGold card holders. By creating a new income abatement threshold to the scheme specifically for SuperGold card holders, we are supporting ratepayers to stay in their homes by lowering the cost to do so. The new abatement threshold will be set at $45,000 per household, which is nearly $13,000 higher than the threshold for the general population. This will allow more people to have the option to stay in their homes they are so comfortable in and remain close to friends, family, and their community they love and rely on for support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000987\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to take some time in this speech to discuss how the changes will practically affect a low-income SuperGold card-holding couple. I am sure many of you know of just such a couple in your electorate. New Zealand super is, roughly, $49,000 for a retired couple living together in a home they own and paying average rates of around $3,500 per year. They would currently only qualify for a less than $250 debate. With the changes made through this bill, that same couple will now receive $805 off their rates next year. For many of you in this House, that may not sound like a lot of money, but for a low-income elderly couple, that money will allow them to do the things they otherwise could not. They might be able to spend more on groceries, keep their power on for longer, or otherwise live life a little better because of this coalition Government. I am proud to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c865650bc8d54569b076b5da38c2b76e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000988\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c865650bc8d54569b076b5da38c2b76e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9a250de214b4353a0930b9f0b92c801\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000989\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9a250de214b4353a0930b9f0b92c801\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I acknowledge the contribution that the Minister of Local Government has just said. It would\u2019ve been helpful if he was able to perhaps even just touch on some of the issues that have been raised by members on this side of the House. Perhaps he is leaving that to committee stage, because I know that we will certainly be having some direct questions that touch on some of the issues that we\u2019ve already raised, and then some.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThere has been some reference, by the Minister, actually, about the fact that this needs to be enacted as part of this urgency in order to deliver on the 1 July deadline. Again, this has been well signalled in the coalition agreement by the Government, yet they have decided to bring it to the House under urgency as opposed to doing this sooner\u2014earlier than they had signalled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000991\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EUsually, at this particular stage in the process, as we all know, we would have had a select committee process by now, and, actually, I don\u2019t know, maybe this would\u2019ve gone to the Governance and Administration Committee perhaps, but who knows\u2014we won\u2019t know. What we would have in front of us, of course, would be the feedback from the community, from stakeholders. Now, I have no doubt that, actually, probably, the overwhelming level of feedback would be in support of this legislation. That is why we are supporting it tonight, but also because it is the right thing to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000992\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EBut it would\u2019ve been none the less helpful to have heard from communities all around the country as to what it would mean for them. It would have been helpful to have heard from senior citizens, who give so much to our community, about what difference it would make as a result of the increased pressures that the Government are placing on their household when it comes to cost of living and other pressures\u2014not just around rates, not just around insurance, not just around actually the choice that seniors and others have to make about whether they can afford a block of cheese or not. These are the real issues and the impacts upon households that we would have had the benefit of hearing and learning from, and what this Government has done is they have stripped that opportunity away from a very, very important sector in our community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000993\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ENot only would we have heard from seniors within our country, I\u2019m sure we would have heard from those many NGOs and sector organisations that do a sterling job, both those in Age Concern but also some of those that take quite a political bent. I know in my own electorate, Grey Power is very vocal, and it would\u2019ve\u2014I\u2019m sure\u2014been of benefit to have their views on the record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000994\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI think we definitely would have heard from more than the five councils that, as part of this process, weren\u2019t formally consulted with but did have an opportunity to feed into some sort of process. It\u2019s a little bit unclear around what that process is, and that will be one of the questions that I intend to put to the Minister: those five councils, what was the specific level of engagement? They themselves, as I understand it from the regulatory impact statement (RIS), didn\u2019t know what this proposal was going to be, so they may have given some indication, perhaps, that it would be difficult to implement. In some cases, the RIS identifies that the cost to councils would be $200,000 extra to implement this. Yet another example of the Government putting more mandates, unfunded mandates, on to local government councils.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000995\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ESo there is a question around\u2014well, where is the level of support from the Government to address the additional expenses that councils will undoubtedly incur? Look, I accept that not every council in the land is going to be faced with a $200,000 bill to implement this, but there will be other councils all around the country that would either have to wear that cost themselves or reprioritise existing services in order to deliver on this. Members opposite might think, well, actually, no, you can\u2019t reprioritise something that\u2019s going to cost, I don\u2019t know, $5,000. Well, you do, because this is what local government is all about. So I want to hear from the Minister about what Auckland Council had to say, Tauranga City Council, Christchurch, Manawat\u016B, and Clutha, because those are the only five that are specifically mentioned in the RIS. So we look forward to hearing about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000996\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI also want to hear from the Minister about this \u201Cback to basics\u201D rhetoric that he seems to enjoy. Yes, roads and footpaths, libraries; part of the basic sort of theology of this Government\u2014cemeteries\u2014is community development. These are the sorts of things that the Government is saying, get on with it, get back to basics. These are the very things that councils do, and so for many, and in small rural communities, which have a very small relative ratepayer base, it may be the difference of trading off some of these services in order to meet the additional expenses that this Government are foisting upon councils. So I look forward to hearing from the Minister to clear that one up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000997\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that very clearly identifies two tiers, both of them equally valid in my view. One is those that hold SuperGold cards, and my colleague Dr Xu-Nan talked about that definition and I\u2019m sure we\u2019ll delve into that when it comes to the regulations\u2014the two regulations that exist in that particular area. That\u2019s at a higher threshold under this bill. Then the other is the existing lower thresholds that those that choose to or are able to apply for this are able to access.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000998\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ENow, earlier, we talked about the fact that there are a number of community members and households that do not access this scheme. Well, why is that? Why is it that this scheme, which would provide some alleviation\u2014and, when it goes up on 1 July, for those that have been getting it, the extra 58c a fortnight. But why is it that there is some reason that more than 40 percent of households that are eligible for this don\u2019t get it? That\u2019s not the new ones that are going to come on board for those that hold a SuperGold card; these are the existing households that the department indicate are eligible for whatever reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2000999\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ESo one of the questions to the Minister is around that particular space: what work has he been doing as part of this suite of work to try and increase the level of awareness, support\u2014whatever it might be\u2014to ensure that households are able to access this support, because it is a bit of support that has been in the pipeline for a wee while?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001000\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe other thing is, it\u2019s interesting, from the bill\u2014you know, we would\u2019ve heard from the community as part of the select committee process about whether that $45,000 is an appropriate threshold or not. Whilst those who are earning New Zealand superannuation and are a couple that live in a household are, basically, bang on that particular threshold\u2014slightly over it, actually\u2014there are many circumstances where those in that demographic undertake a little bit of work, not a lot but in many circumstances a little bit of work. So where is the threshold appropriately sitting? The Minister suggests through this bill that it\u2019s $45,000. It would be good to have heard whether that was hammering that home or not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe other thing I think would have been interesting to hear about\u2014and this does sound a bit reflective, but given the fact that we don\u2019t have a select committee report in front of us, one has to be reflective. There are a lot of \u201Cwhat ifs\u201D and much of it is\u2014well, all of it is unknown at this stage in terms of what community feedback will have been. But the other two areas that I am specifically interested in is whether the Minister received any advice around extending this to the existing tier. It would be helpful\u2014perhaps that would give officials a chance to provide the Minister with advice this evening, if he hasn\u2019t received it already, around whether there was any advice sought or advice forthcoming about the costs around that and what that would look like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EBut also, the time frame for implementation\u2014now, I know that 1 July is certainly fast approaching for this Government, but ensuring the time frame for rolling that out is going to be very, very important and making sure that this is going to be manageable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House, we want this regime to be workable, all right? We do not want to have a regime that is not going to be workable. So the points of clarification, the issues that we seek to put to the Minister for his response are actually, believe it or not, in the spirit of ensuring that this is a workable regime for councils, for the department, and for households that will be able to access this, particularly those households who would be new accessees to this particular opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ESo, as we move through committee stage, we\u2019ll be looking forward to teasing those out. I agree with the Minister that it is important that seniors in our community do feel as though they are seen and are able to live in our community with dignity. This bill will go some way to assisting that, and some small step to addressing some of the concerns that they\u2019re facing, but there are still some questions that we have to put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u002219d54c1d274e435db752ce639a42d829\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219d54c1d274e435db752ce639a42d829\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Here we are on the second reading, and I did promise in the second reading we would go into more details about some of the questions that we would like to ask as part of the committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acfce5732139474d9c7cc4f4cd16a28e\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: This is a promise you\u2019re allowed to break.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253a11dce0cf04ed39c6b795f4335b41a\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: You know what? I want to start by saying that I love the fact that the other side of the House is jeering and heckling about the fact that we are treating this bill seriously and doing our jobs. I think, for those people, they should really think about the contribution that they are making, which would constitute as a partial strike under the current definition of the regulation on partial striking\u2014maybe you should be looking at some pay deductions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EBut on to this bill. When we are looking at this, I think the most\u2014again, we think that the context of this bill and about the fact that we are looking at wanting something to help our seniors as we are looking at people who are getting older and older, getting into more precarious situations, as we\u2019re seeing an increase in the number of people who are over 65 and, in response, will be eligible for the SuperGold card and would be eligible for this increase in terms of the rates rebate. But, fundamentally, there is a question that we need to address, and I really want to take up the previous speaker Tangi Utikere\u2019s question to the Government, which is: if this Government is tweeting about the fact they\u2019re going back to basics, why don\u2019t we just increase the superannuation amount? Why don\u2019t we just increase our public housing stock or genuinely sort out the Retirement Villages Act review\u2014which is still being held by the Government despite the fact that it is with the Government, because this is still tied into the whole package we\u2019re looking at here, if this is indeed a bill that is supposed to benefit seniors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EBut what we are seeing is that, although we are trying to bring, let\u2019s say, someone who may only be living in their own house, who\u2019s got no other income other than their superannuation\u2014and SuperGold card for all the other amenities one can enjoy as part of the SuperGold card\u2014it nevertheless comes back to the fact that they are still someone who\u2019s able to own a property in the first place. If we are really looking at being serious about the way we look at seniors in this country, why doesn\u2019t this bill look after and also support the most vulnerable seniors in our community: M\u0101ori and Pasifika, who proportionately have lower numbers of homeownership; migrants who are not citizens, who are not eligible for super in the first place, or a SuperGold card, are not eligible for something like this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ESo it is quite perplexing and confusing when we are looking at, on one side, something that potentially can be really good for our community and our seniors, but, on the other hand, kind of tries to make sure that they\u2019re still really just speaking to the landlords. So it is a little bit confusing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022163ee6d21cdc4768aa8859911eab32ee\u0022\u003EHon Casey Costello\u003C/span\u003E: What? Landlords?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2d0b3ef65984f6cad205487eae68b50\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, are you telling me that this bill goes beyond landowners or residents? If it does, please let me know, because that\u2019s actually then quite exciting, if this goes beyond landlords.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e30e1cb26af42268fdc6c877a32c902\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: What if you just owned one property? You wouldn\u2019t be a landlord.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260de1a25206745e98fb164fd0637916e\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: Hmm. I feel like that would still be considered a landlord, because you are in fact owning that particular piece of land. But semantics; on to the rest of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI think there are some genuine policy questions\u2014[Interruption] You know what, if all of you have so much to say, I would love to see you actually get up and give a speech that\u2019s longer than 30 seconds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ESo when we are looking at this, there are some broader policy questions, and I really like the fact that the previous speaker, Tangi Utikere, really focused on the territorial authorities element and the local council element, and I think all of the questions that he asked are incredibly valid as we\u2019re going into the committee stage. For me, I would really like to drill down on the broader policy questions of why this policy came about and why this policy needed to be under urgency in the first place, because surely we are able to\u2014particularly considering that this only needs to be implemented by 1 July 2025, there is sufficient time for us to tease it out, even with a shortened select committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EBut in terms of the broader questions around policy, we also need to read the fine print when we are looking at what income is not included as part of this threshold of $45,000. So if you do look at the original Rates Rebate Act 1972, it does say that capital is not included as part of that, which also means that, yes, you might be a homeowner, owning your own home, in which case you would be struggling, potentially, to try and pay the rates, or if you would like to enjoy the highest rates rebate that you can be eligible for, which is $805 by the time we move up to the new order on 1 July 2025, up from $790. But at the same time, we are looking at\u2014those people who potentially are getting income through capital don\u2019t necessarily need to be considered as part of that income. So you could still be earning money through capital\u2014at least, that\u2019s my reading, and I would love to see the Minister\u2019s explanation around this. So you could still be earning money through capital, but that doesn\u2019t count towards this upper threshold of $45,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThen let\u2019s talk about the fact that if we really want to benefit more people, we know, statistically speaking, when we have the data through Stats NZ, through the Retirement Commission, through the Office for Seniors, through Age Concern, all of those organisations\u2014we are seeing a real issue with our seniors not being able to own their own homes. We\u2019re seeing, by next decade, almost 40 percent of the people over the age of 65, or senior-like in name, will not be able to own their own home, which also means that they will not be eligible for this really amazing thing that the Government is trying to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThat is also, I think, a broader policy question, because going through the regulatory impact statement, it doesn\u2019t necessarily state other policy opportunities and options it was considering. In fact, it specifically states that we didn\u2019t really consider anything else; this is really all we\u2019ve considered. So I think there is definitely scope for us to ask that during the committee stage as we go forward. I also think that it is interesting that as we\u2019re going through the regulatory impact statement, certain departments were considered. For example, the Office for Seniors is expected to support the roll-out of the scheme, but I could not identify them being a party that was consulted on this bill. In fact, if they were consulted on, surely they would have alluded to or informed the Government that by us having this rates rebate\u2014which, again, is not a bad thing, but that\u2019s not the biggest issue and the biggest challenge facing our seniors and our senior population in Aotearoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EAdditionally, when we\u2019re looking at the full package that is being introduced by the Government over this urgency period, we also need to ask the question of the bill that we just passed, the Social Assistance Legislation (Accommodation Supplement and Income-related Rent) Amendment Bill, which looks at the inclusion of one or two boarders as part of this\u2014that also begs the question of are they going to now tie into the income of the senior? So if you are grandparents and your grandchild is having to live with you and they pay board, now they\u2019re included as part of that new legislation, and they pay you that, and their board not only affects their student allowance now but it may also in fact affect your income as part of this and potentially push you over the threshold for you to be eligible for the maximum amount of rebate anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ESo we simply don\u2019t know a lot of these questions just by going through the legislation and also going through the regulatory impact statement. I think, yes, when we are looking at this bill, it is important for us to ensure that our senior population and the concerns that our seniors are raising around the fact that what they have to put up with in the retirement village, and the exploitation they experience in retirement villages\u2014the fact that we have a lot of seniors who are ineligible or still on waiting lists for K\u0101inga Ora housing and in the precarious situation of having to pay ever-increasing rent to their landlords because they simply do not have the money to buy their own property. But instead of that, we do see $155 million being placed into this particular scheme that may potentially alleviate and address some of the other challenges we are seeing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ESo, fundamentally, this is a good thing. It\u2019s good that we are also looking after seniors and actually treating the seniors\u2019 issues seriously for a change. But at the same time, we are not addressing the fundamental discrepancy that we\u2019re seeing within that population through this bill, and I think there is a lot more for us to unpack during the committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ESo, finally, the Green Party is, at this stage, supportive of this bill, but we would love to see more engagement and have engagement with the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022 data-id=\u00227581720e164746968501850ce23e65bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227581720e164746968501850ce23e65bc\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. This Government is putting in place a Budget that sets the foundations for a growing New Zealand in which the next generation can do better. But, as every party in this House has spoken about tonight, we need to look after the generations that have gone before. That\u2019s why this Budget\u2019s putting forward $150 million over four years for a rebate on rates to help our senior citizens\u2014as the Minister said\u2014\u201Cage in place\u201D amongst their community where they\u2019ve built a life; where they feel at home is where they should be. This is what it looks like when you get back to basics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EIn response to Tangi Utikere, there are councils around this country, some of which have gone from 650 to 1,150 staff numbers in the last five years. That\u2019s a 73 percent increase. I\u2019ve also heard of spending doubling in five years. That\u2019s the sort of stuff that needs to be taken under control. We can\u2019t have $100,000 spent on a statue; we need to get councils back on basics, just as this Government is. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022 data-id=\u002236a6d66788ef4549b511a88d6a25472c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236a6d66788ef4549b511a88d6a25472c\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Minister for Seniors):\u003C/span\u003E I rise with great delight to speak in support of this important bill. This is a great moment for this coalition Government because, to clarify for the members opposite, who are wondering where this policy came from, it\u2019s a unique thing about a coalition agreement that outlines the actions we\u2019re going to take as a Government and, surprise, surprise, we do it. It\u2019s an amazing day for us. This is about doing some good stuff. The fact that we are linking it to the SuperGold card means that\u2014and I can do a plug for the SuperGold card website to ensure that every senior makes sure they have their SuperGold card, that they take advantage of all of the opportunities of discounts, and then, on top of that, they can get all the information that they need about this rates rebate from the website. I can assure the members opposite that the Office for Seniors was fully consulted. They do amazing work ensuring our communities remain connected, and this is one more step to a wonderful life for our seniors in New Zealand. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab99351e26d44bdbbb31c99df302aa69\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab99351e26d44bdbbb31c99df302aa69\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. I\u2019m delighted to stand and bring the other parts of the truth to this discussion\u2014so here we go\u2014and, of course, to record that we do support this. But I just want to raise a couple of points that I think might be important\u2014well, they will be important. I guess, to the Minister of Revenue: I noticed that in your opening lines you talked about the urgency of it, which sounded plausible, which is why you\u2019re running an urgency, but it\u2019s been urgent for probably at least 180 to 200 years. So I just wonder where your urgency radar really applies\u2014so a point to be noted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229854638dd017449d98c968cca9531266\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t have one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f71edbcba234ef787a16986fbc3f30f\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: I am interested in the \u201Cageing in place\u201D description. I mean, it\u2019s so new age-ey, to be honest. In 1860-something\u2014the concept of papa k\u0101inga has been around since then. It\u2019s an important thing, and I would invite the Minister to have a look at it, because it\u2019s been around for that long. So \u201Cageing in place\u201D, I think, is cute. It\u2019s very new age-ey, but it does apply\u2014I mean, of course it applies, but it\u2019s kind of new age-ey and trendy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EWe would call that \u201Cpapa k\u0101inga lifestyle\u201D. We would call that \u201Crohe p\u014Dtae\u201D. We would call that \u201C\u0101 whakapapa\u201D. So those ideas of growing, living, dying, burying your wh\u0101nau here, raising them there in your own rohe\u2014those ordinary things. They have been practices that we have had for a very long time, but where were you? I don\u2019t mean you, Madam Chair\u2014not at all. I mean this crew on my left here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EAnother point: SuperGold\u2014or \u201CSuperOld\u201D; that\u2019s what I\u2019m hearing in this SuperGold and \u201CSuperOld\u201D k\u014Drero\u2014again, in our context, we talk about kaum\u0101tua. We talk about m\u0101tua-mokopuna lifestyles. So when I hear the description that is when you\u2019ve got a couple that lives in that home, and there\u2019s a kaum\u0101tua or an individual that lives in another home\u2014that is not our reality. So somewhere in this discussion, I look forward to when\u2014and I hope it really comes up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EFor our kaum\u0101tua, we\u2019d have probably at least one mokopuna, if not three, and that is a typical hu\u0101nga mokopuna model. Again, if those were known to your people and your writers, you might have understood that when you were designing this\u2014and, again, please, just stay with me. We do support it, but it needs a lot of work and improvement. I\u2019m happy to be that adviser.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThe other part of this is important to note: it is about \u201CSuperOld\u201D, and it is about our older generations. The fact is that optimal health is not our privilege; it is your privilege, but it\u2019s certainly not ours. So when we\u2019re dying at least seven years earlier, if not more\u201410 years earlier\u2014we just won\u2019t get to bloody SuperGold, because we\u2019re all nodding off, all dying, and in a miserable and terrible way, not because we want to, but because the system and its commitment to poverty in paradise\u2014this is what we get. \u201CLive long and prosper\u201D is rare in our reality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ESo, though this is a small bill, let\u2019s try to make it bigger, would you? I\u2019m happy to support you to redesign it a bit better. Madam Chair, thank you. Those are my contributions. Good evening, people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022 data-id=\u002232bd44c8a5694ea7b4897e829b52a82a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232bd44c8a5694ea7b4897e829b52a82a\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of Te R\u014Dpu K\u0101k\u0101riki to speak to this legislation. While we do support the progress of this bill, we have questions around unintended consequences\u2014the unintended consequences of the haves and the haves-not: those who will benefit\u2014and recognising the huge investment of $155 million over four years\u2014who are homeowners, those that are lucky enough to have an asset, and then, largely, M\u0101ori, Pasifika, and migrant communities who may not own an asset like a home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003ESo, on behalf of Te R\u014Dpu K\u0101k\u0101riki, I raise concerns over the need for the rush. What is the need for the rush? What is the rush for this legislation to come through so quickly and commence on 1\u00A0July? The Department of Internal Affairs shared that \u201CThe context within which this RIA has been undertaken is unusual, in that the policy decisions have already been made by Cabinet,\u201D. So there has been no regulatory impact assessment accompanying this because there\u2019s been little analysis conducted. Then, I reflect on the departmental disclosure statement. It says that while there have been no issues identified with the bill and its implications on the rights and interests of M\u0101ori and to protect Te Tiriti o Waitangi, the issue is there have been no formal steps taken to determine whether this policy\u2014I\u2019m reading from the report itself\u2014and this bill is consistent with the principles of Te Tiriti. That\u2019s interesting in itself, because if we had a process, there would be an opportunity for the officials\u2014like the Office for Seniors, like the Department of Internal Affairs\u2014to critique and provide that extra analysis that we need, as a House, to fully support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EI absolutely support ageing well. I pay full tribute to our elders, our kaum\u0101tua, for what they have contributed to building up New Zealand. But also, I query the need for the rush. Also, where is the space to look at equity? Where is the space for us to look at whenua M\u0101ori, and many of those kaum\u0101tua who live on whenua M\u0101ori, and the ability for whenua M\u0101ori land owners to even benefit from this? Is the rates rebate stretching out into whenua M\u0101ori land as well\u2014and knowing many of our kaum\u0101tua do live in K\u0101inga Ora homes, or they live in intergenerational homes that they do not own. So maybe, if we had time, we would have the opportunity to really unpack in a fulsome way and understand who are the haves and who are the have-nots in terms of this legislation, and the way that it can stretch out across New Zealand and show benefit for the elders that we cherish and we care for. So that\u2019s some of the concern that I would like to bring, in terms of what we can do, in the committee of the whole House, and ask the Minister of Local Government these p\u0101tai.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EI think about the admin burden too. Because of the limited, truncated process that we are undertaking, again, there was limited engagement and consultation with councils as to how much of an admin burden they would have to take on board and if they are ready to launch on 1 July. Or will they be in a situation where they\u2019re going to have to catch up because it\u2019s going to be hoisted on them with little engagement\u2014in fact, no engagement\u2014and it\u2019s going to happen at quick pace, with the expectation to implement on 1 July? And then our elders will start turning up, looking to clip it and go, \u201CYep, we\u2019re ready to go.\u201D So those are questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EI worry about the size of the investment\u2014$155 million is a great gesture towards our elders, but then if we look at where the powerhouse and the people power of New Zealand is, it\u2019s certainly our young people. Maybe even if we consider the way that we can give a bit of a hand up to those young people that might be in homeownership and might be ratepayers, they might be able to benefit in the space too. These are some of the questions we would love to interrogate\u2014even if there was a select committee process. I mean, just imagine: if we had had a select committee process, the voice of the community would have come and they would have shared\u2014but, unfortunately, this Government shuts out the voice of community. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u002224f952c931ed4a7eac61fb229da2263e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224f952c931ed4a7eac61fb229da2263e\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E This is $154 million very, very, very well spent. Again, it\u2019s another example of Budget 2025 delivering practical cost of living relief. You\u2019ll see $154 million invested over four years. It delivers up to $805 off your rates for 66,000 more New Zealanders. It\u2019s great news, it\u2019s a great part of our Budget, and we\u2019re very proud to support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u002219c88634916748768323fd4ba1aa2697\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219c88634916748768323fd4ba1aa2697\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to draw the House\u2019s attention to the explanatory note for this bill, and the second paragraph: the Rates Rebate Act 1973. That was the Kirk Government that brought this kaupapa in, in the first place. So this has been a long part of the Labour tradition, a long part of Labour legislation\u2014and Labour legislation that we are proud of that has lasted since 1973. It\u2019s good to see the pretty unanimous support across the House this evening for continuing this Labour kaupapa, so we thank everyone for their support of this, and we agree that this is a good piece of legislation to be brought to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENevertheless, we do have some questions that we will wish to explore in some detail during the committee stage, and they\u2019re questions that are worth having a look at. Having had this type of legislation around since 1973, it\u2019s always worth looking at whether or not it\u2019s still a good piece of legislation. Now, we do think it is, but our colleagues in Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori and the Green Party have raised some interesting questions. We have some other sorts of questions that we will want to ask.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo the first one is why the particular threshold that has been set for the rates rebate, which this Government\u2014and we support them doing it\u2014is increasing the threshold to $45,000. Now, as it turns out, a couple holding a SuperGold card\u2014a couple on New Zealand superannuation, so that is their income and their only income\u2014their income is about $49,000 a year, give or take, provided they have no other income.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI\u2019m sure you\u2019ve seen it\u2019s the case\u2014and certainly I\u2019ve seen it\u2019s the case as well\u2014that, at present, if an elderly couple is living on just New Zealand super, if that is the only income they have in their old age, it\u2019s pretty tough. It\u2019s pretty tough living on that kind of income. It\u2019s not pretty. We see that often some of our seniors are accessing food parcels, they\u2019re accessing other kinds of support. They really do need a hand to get by on just that amount of income.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo I am interested to understand why the threshold was set at $45,000. Why not just set it at a level that was actually above the couple rate for New Zealand superannuation? It would be worth understanding why that particular $45,000 threshold was chosen. There would have been a few more people who had come into the Rates Rebate Scheme, in that case. I\u2019m hoping that the officials will be able to give us some kind of analysis as to why the threshold was set at that particular level.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, don\u2019t get me wrong, we still agree that this is a good thing to do, but why not just that little bit more to take it above the amount of New Zealand superannuation? I\u2019m sure there\u2019s a reason for it, and we\u2019ll hope to elucidate that in the committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EOf course, there\u2019s the concern around the need for it in the first place and it was an issue that was raised by our colleague in the ACT Party, Cameron Luxton, who talked about rates increases in recent years and repeated the mantra of getting \u201Cback to the basics\u201D for councils. Actually, rates have been increasing quite dramatically in recent years. Some territorial authorities have had double-digit rates increases year on year, outpacing the cost of inflation. The diagnosis from some people is that local councils are just not good enough at what they do. I think that\u2019s unfair. I know many city and district councillors. I\u2019ve seen how hard they work. I\u2019ve seen how they do try to balance up all the competing concerns of their constituents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve seen their commitment to things that some people might think are luxuries but I think are absolute necessities\u2014parks, libraries, recreation areas\u2014and that\u2019s without considering the cost of roading and the cost of the decaying infrastructure in some of our cities and towns. Of course, one of the biggest costs that is driving some of the rates increases for cities, for towns, for territorial authorities is the cost of water supply, the cost of dealing with stormwater, drinking water, waste water. Now, we had a solution in place to prevent some of those dramatic rates increases\u2014that solution was taken away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EBut one of the reasons that rates have been going up is because of trying to deal with those issues around water. So of course that makes it harder for our senior citizens to pay their rates, because those rates increases have been dramatic. There was\u2014on this side of the House, when we were in Government\u2014an attempt to deal with that. I want to see the Government\u2014certainly, this is a good thing, helping senior citizens pay their rates, but we do need to deal with the issue of local government funding as well. This is a bit of a band-aid. It\u2019s a good band-aid\u2014I\u2019m glad to see it\u2014but there is a serious problem here that we also need to deal with in time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EA third issue, I think\u2014and I want to just sort of canvass in this contribution\u2014is just the amount of consultation with councils. I think my colleague Tangi Utikere is correct when he says that it will increase administration costs for councils. I know there has been some limited consultation with councils, but we\u2019ll want to explore that a little further in the committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThere is another issue that I\u2019d like to look at, and I\u2019m going to direct the members of the House to clause 6 of the bill. What the bill lists is some of the items that one of our senior citizens might list in their application for a rebate. So the sorts of things that, when a person is applying for this rebate, what they\u2019ll put in their application is their income: obviously, because it\u2019s income-tested, the income of any other person who lives with them, because, of course, that matters\u2014it\u2019s a household income that matters here; who\u2019s actually occupying the property\u2014of course, that\u2019s an obvious thing to be concerned about; and the ratepayer\u2019s status as a SuperGold card holder. So a number of items which have to be included in the application.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIt lists those, but then in the section it says that \u201CThe chief executive of the territorial authority or [any] other authorised officer is not required to verify a statement about any of the following matters\u201D\u2014is not required to verify those matters when processing these rates rebate applications. So it\u2019s a high-trust system. That might well be appropriate\u2014I think it is likely to be appropriate. After all, if a person has applied for a rates rebate year on year on year, some of the details of their situation are unlikely to change, particularly for senior citizens. People get in their homes, they\u2019re set in their ways, things are unlikely to change. This is a good thing\u2014it\u2019s one of the things that surrounds our \u201Cageing in place\u201D policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENevertheless, this is a high-trust system, so I\u2019m going to want to hear from the Minister of Local Government just how exactly we intend to verify those applications. Obviously, the great majority of people respond really, really well to a high-trust system, but there are always a few who try to rort it, so we are going to want to hear from the Minister as to what is going to be done to ensure that the system operates as intended and that it serves the people that it is intended to serve\u2014that is the SuperGold card holders with an income of less than $45,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EA final thought: this is going through under urgency. It is legislation that we do want to see going through the House. It\u2019s not clear that it needs to be passed tonight, but it does need to be passed soon\u2014so I guess that use of urgency is appropriate, but perhaps the Leader of the House could have considered putting it further up the Order Paper. I fail to see why we had to deal with David Seymour\u2019s vanity bill, the regulatory systems bill, ahead of dealing with this. If this was so time-dependent, this should have been further up the Order Paper. I\u2019m going to invite the Leader of the House to reflect on not just how much he crammed into that urgency order and whether it was all strictly necessary. This one, I can make a case for it, but just hold that thought, Mr Bishop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022628dcc3417ab4c85b040e8ce2cde2e10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022628dcc3417ab4c85b040e8ce2cde2e10\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Well, the last couple of days have been very exciting. We\u2019ve seen legislation to support business; we\u2019ve seen legislation to support our young people, 16- and 17-year-olds; and tonight, we see legislation to support our seniors. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7627e3c8e2140a0a789fd882bdfcd7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7627e3c8e2140a0a789fd882bdfcd7d\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Labour\u2014Panmure-\u014Ct\u0101huhu):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you so much, Madam Speaker, for the call on the Rates Rebate Amendment Bill. It is always a good feeling, especially for those of us who have been here for a little while, when we come to the House\u2014after so many hours\u2019 lack of sleep last night\u2014and we actually agree on a bill when the bill actually does something good. I do want to reflect on the Hon Casey Costello\u2019s speech, reminding us that this was actually a policy of New Zealand First. I\u2019d like to congratulate them for this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EBut can I also reiterate that we support meaningful rebate relief, especially for those who need it most: our kaum\u0101tua, our pensioners\u2014those who all deserve to be treated with dignity, to have security, and to be supported to continue living for as long as they can in the place that they have worked really hard for most of their life, the place that they call home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThis bill is needed because\u2014and I\u2019ll just cover some of the main issues that the bill covers\u2014older couples living on superannuation in Aotearoa New Zealand: many of them earn just above the general income threshold, but they\u2019re excluded from receiving the full rebate, or any rates rebate, currently. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EI also do want to reflect on something that my colleague the Hon Deborah Russell reminded us of earlier on, which was that the original Act was passed under a Labour Government in 1973. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222f1a323569b4caf9180d30d47be22c2\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right\u2014Norman Kirk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9fb31eb50bb440ab96a668a80a0f5ef\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA\u003C/span\u003E: Under Norman Kirk. When you actually look at the regulatory impact statement (RIS), we\u2019ve heard a number of times the fact that there\u2019s $155 million over four years for this overall bill, but I do want to remind the House that the current scheme actually invests $82 million, currently. So the new money that\u2019s being added to this legislation is an additional $32.9 million, and my colleague Tangi Utikere covered earlier on that it amounts to several cents. I looked through the RIS, and, actually, $15 is the overall amount when this bill becomes law, so in terms of the scope, it is somewhat limited. So that is one of the concerns that we\u2019ll ask the Minister questions on during the committee of the whole House stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EBut I\u2019ll go back to what the bill actually covers. It proposes to be fairer for older New Zealanders. It will reduce hardship for low-income seniors. Many pensioners, of course, are asset-rich, but many of them are income-poor. It maintains the existing rates of the rebate framework, but it adds the SuperGold card threshold by Order in Council. The reason why it does this is so that it gives it flexibility over time so that we don\u2019t always have to come back to the House to go through a long process\u2014like we are under urgency tonight\u2014and it focuses support where the need is greatest: older people on fixed income who are affected by the rising living costs that many are having right now, including those who live in my electorate in South Auckland, in Panmure-\u014Ct\u0101huhu. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EHowever, we still have quite a few concerns. The bill creates a two-tiered system. It sets a threshold based on age and status, which could be seen as inequitable for low-income non-retirees. As I mentioned earlier on, it is limited in scope. The maximum rebate increase is only $15. It only increases it from $790 to $805. Yes, $15 will be a lot of money for some people, but it is still quite modest. Especially when you look at the average rates that people pay in Aotearoa, it is between $3,000 to $4,000 per year. It does not also address the deeper housing cost drivers that we face right throughout Aotearoa. The rates are rising faster than incomes. Homeownership is falling, particularly for M\u0101ori and Pacific, and for young people\u2014so many young people are locked out of homeownership, and many New Zealanders are being squeezed from every side. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EWe have many more questions, but we\u2019ll address it when the Minister takes the chair. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022028a7e68a5af4523966f129e84993374\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022028a7e68a5af4523966f129e84993374\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National):\u003C/span\u003E This is a $150 million initiative support from the Government, supporting 66,000 more seniors. The Opposition asked why we make it so fast: well, we are a Government that delivers, and we deliver fast. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022 data-id=\u002227b34edff6d04f21838ac4f3e5b7d296\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227b34edff6d04f21838ac4f3e5b7d296\u0022\u003ELEMAUGA LYDIA SOSENE (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to be able to make another contribution. In my opening contribution, I did elaborate further that as to this side of the House, we will be supporting this bill, but I have some real concerns around the process and the urgency in terms of our community and the consultation. The reason why I raise it again is because when I have read the regulatory impact statement (RIS) and seen the steps that have been taken, and carefully read and understood the primary benefit\u2014the primary benefit is really important for our seniors in our community who are SuperGold card holders. They are entitled to this benefit. They then take the steps to understand the eligibility. The other concern that I have is there were only a small group of councils who actually were consulted, but they weren\u2019t given specific information because of the Budget sensitivity around the Cabinet rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EWhat is important is when we see a good piece of legislation that could have gone further by way of public engagement. What is the Government afraid of? It should be, when there is a good piece of legislation that will help our seniors and our community who have worked so hard in their lifetime to contribute\u2014and now some of those households are not eligible. Some of the households have got limited income. It\u2019s all described in here. What is the Government so afraid of in terms of public engagement? The reason why I want to stress public engagement, although some parts of our community have diverse communities by way of M\u0101ori, by way of Pasifika, by way of ethnic and our disability communities\u2014their views to be consulted are important. And sometimes, as parliamentarians in the House, we have to consult with our community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s really important: we can\u2019t just sit here, in the different sides of the House, and then be as arrogant as sometimes we can be, or not listening or not having k\u014Drero. It is important to have engagement\u2014the proper process. There is no select committee process, so we find ourselves in a position where\u2014it\u2019s not that we\u2019re guessing; we know the benefit of this system\u2014but we have to continue to ask the questions to that side of the House, that, whilst we support it, when you have limited engagement with councils who have a number of elected members on the ground who could have gone further and been able to contribute in a process\u2014and I understand, because it\u2019s right here. The limitations and constraints in terms of the analysis that Cabinet agreed with a preferred option and had broader Budget decisions and had agreed on the start date. Those things we have to question, and we look forward to the time with the Minister of Local Government so that we can run it through the committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EBut there is an expectation that councils or territorial authorities will just be able to receive a system and then be able just to run with it. [Interruption] Ministers, please, we\u2019ve listened to you. Can you please just listen to us? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EI want to raise that in the proposals that are now going to be effective with councils, there is the expectation and the intention that council staff will just pick this up and run with it without further income, further administration costs. Are those staff trained? Do the staff have proper processes in place? We don\u2019t know that. The RIS also pointed out, due to the sensitive nature of these proposals, that they did do some consultation. So that has been helpful. However, have we got a proper, comprehensive, and robust system that, when this comes live, it will benefit some of the seniors?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EThe policy problem that this solution is for is the Rates Rebate Scheme; how will it work\u2014how will it work? What I\u2019ve read in the RIS is that some households\u2014and it says right here, on page 9: 110,000 households will benefit from this scheme in terms of the cost of rebates in 2024-2025. You\u2019ve heard from my colleagues in terms of the dollar sign; that\u2019s going to be a good thing. But still, I have questions around the public engagement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EThere is the intention or the assumption that once this is rolled out, everybody will know about it. Well, they won\u2019t. I can tell you that, because in my part of South Auckland, there are still questions around Rates Rebate Schemes. Some of our households\u2014Pasifika, M\u0101ori, ethnic\u2014they don\u2019t understand fully the benefit and the eligibility of the scheme. There\u2019s an assumption that is made that council will just roll it out and then council can give the bill to the Department of Internal Affairs to get their money back. There are systems in place that sometimes our public don\u2019t understand, but they need to understand what they are entitled to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003ESo my plea is to the Ministers. I know they want to get through because they want to go home. I\u2019m asking around the fairness and the design of this scheme. It\u2019s important that the aspects that we raise on the different sides of the House are taken into account, so that feedback is given to the councils and their public officials who can understand the constraints and the limitedness to make and design a better system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really concerned at the problems that may not always be answered, particularly for the households that are eligible. If I think of some of the seniors in my community, where they\u2019ve got very limited income\u2014they\u2019re only on superannuation; they\u2019ve got increase in insurance, increase in petrol, increase in other household expenses; it\u2019s a real issue if they speak only a Pacific language; they\u2019re quite fearful of public officials; they don\u2019t have the interpretation skills; and they don\u2019t even have digital skills. So they\u2019re quite limited as to how they can access information that is important so that they can understand their responsibilities and obligations. Because we want the seniors to understand their financial security, and if they need help running their households, where do they approach? Who do they approach? Do they approach council? Do they approach Internal Affairs? So those are the issues that I continue to raise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EBut it\u2019s important for our parliamentarians that they understand the pressures, and I\u2019m sure some of them do. They understand the pressures that are facing our seniors in the community, particularly with the cost of living, particularly with this Government making different choices around cutting women\u2019s pay equity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EBack to the bill. One of the things that I wanted to raise was that\u2014[Interruption] You\u2019ve had your time in the House, thank you; we\u2019re having our time. So one of the things that I wanted just to highlight\u2014and we will get the time with the Minister to ask questions. It is important to have a full cost-benefit analysis so that we are fully informed that we can make right decisions and give the contribution that is important, because we get lobbied by people in our local communities. It\u2019s important when this scheme, this Rates Rebates Scheme, is for our community, then we\u2019ve got to help people, educate them\u2014you take this path, you take this step, so that you can understand what you are eligible for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003ESo we will be supporting it, but we will continue to ask those questions to the Minister so that his officials will hear our questions and it will be recorded for those who are at home. We want to help them understand what they are eligible for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003ESo, just as I finish up in the last seconds, this is a very important scheme that some New Zealanders\u2014senior New Zealanders\u2014are eligible for, and it is my hope that those who are eligible for it will apply for it. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u002239018ab3b3af4c6aa06b54f9c0098b22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239018ab3b3af4c6aa06b54f9c0098b22\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E This is a great bill. We respect our seniors. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00224b25ebfaa97142cbb2ac069b4cdaad47\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b25ebfaa97142cbb2ac069b4cdaad47\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is set down for committee stage presently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224a0908a6f8ba429585b4db477a3c7f2e\u0022\u003EInvest New Zealand Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225c9599fcfefc49488531c7d36cde3821\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022739a650b02154b2ba0174f4f625e6395\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022739a650b02154b2ba0174f4f625e6395\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (Minister for Trade and Investment):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Invest New Zealand Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258d679aada2046e3b19f91e333676832\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd39bb2e964243e0996a1ef4ded83c7c\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Invest New Zealand Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe purpose of the bill is to establish a new Crown entity\u2014Invest New Zealand\u2014and provide for its function and operation so that it can help to position New Zealand as a premier destination for foreign direct investment (FDI). Investment is key to economic growth; it fuels innovation, drives productivity, and assures world-class business have the capital they need to scale. Foreign investment is crucial because as well as bringing in your capital to support the growth of New Zealand firms, it also strengthens our international connections, facilitates technological transfer and the commercialisation of our science space, creates jobs, enhances infrastructure development, and contributes overall to boosting New Zealand\u2019s productive capacity and competitiveness on a global scale.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EAs of March 2024, New Zealand\u2019s foreign direct investment stock was $158.5 billion, about 39 percent of our GDP. This is below the OECD average of 52 percent and considerably below Ireland, a comparable small, advanced economy, whose FDI stock sits at 260 percent of their GDP. While last year, our FDI grew by 5 percent, compared to Singapore, which grew at 31 percent, we have much work to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ENew Zealand produces world-class businesses with huge potential. Sectors like fintech and finance, renewable energy, cleantech, advanced transportation, aquaculture, and food manufacturing all have companies that are scaling, innovating, and looking for global partners to help them grow. In order to attract that investment, we need to grow the economy, we must scale up our efforts, and take a more coordinated, strategic approach to investment attraction. By establishing a dedicated stand-alone agency focused solely on attracting foreign direct investment, we will do just that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EInvest New Zealand will be the Government\u2019s front for foreign direct investment, cutting through bureaucracy and proactively securing major investments. Through the establishment of Invest New Zealand, we\u2019ll remove unnecessary barriers so that investing here is easier, efficient, and predictable. Invest New Zealand will be able to target high-impact investment in key sectors, like technology, agritech, renewable energy, fintech, finance and advanced manufacturing, and many more; proactively engage with global investors and multinationals, showcasing the unique advantages of doing business in New Zealand; and support high-growth Kiwi businesses to become investment-ready so that they can scale up and expand internationally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThis is a relatively straightforward bill, but I would like to summarise some of the bill\u2019s key features. It establishes Invest New Zealand as an autonomous Crown entity. It sets out the function of the entity. Its main function will be to facilitate and enable increased overseas investment in New Zealand. The bill also lists additional functions of Investment New Zealand in order to carry out the main functions, including facilitating connections and collaboration between overseas investors, New Zealand investors, research institutions, organisations; provide investment opportunities for businesses; and build and share knowledge about overseas investors, the investment environment in New Zealand, and the investment opportunities here. It will provide advice and information to Government on policies and legislation needed to attract overseas investment, including identifying and advising on options for reform that are likely to enable for further overseas investment and carry out any additional function in relation to investment. The bill provides abilities for Invest New Zealand to charge fees and to recover costs if it chooses to do so. The bill also includes some transitional provisions to ensure transfer of employees, assets, and liabilities to Invest New Zealand from the New Zealand Trade and Enterprise, which currently carries out investment activity, functions smoothly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe Government is committed to showing the world that New Zealand is open for business. Alongside our ambition to double exports by value over 10 years, Invest New Zealand will be able to ensure that New Zealand attracts the capital that it needs to drive growth, create jobs, and deliver for all New Zealanders. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u002247f2d02fbedc4607a3578e6ebf423a32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247f2d02fbedc4607a3578e6ebf423a32\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you very much, and thanks to the Minister for Trade and Investment for explaining some of the bill. Labour has always appreciated and valued the investment that has come into this country over the, I guess, last couple of hundred years that has enabled us to get to where we are as a nation. We acknowledge the importance of foreign investment, but I\u2019m not sure we need a real estate agency to sell off New Zealand, as is being proposed in this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe question we must always ask of any legislation in this House is why, because, actually, we have New Zealand Trade and Enterprise, and the Minister is responsible for what is a very high-performing Government agency that has, as part of its mandate, to identify and to attract, where necessary, investment into our country, to provide opportunities for New Zealanders and for New Zealand. There are many questions that we will ask in relation to this piece of legislation because Labour is not convinced that this is, indeed, necessary. There are provisions proposed in this that lead to some serious questions around the independence of the agency, the ability of the Minister and the Government to have direct intervention and influence, and who it might be attracting and who it might be facilitating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWe, in Labour, have always, as I\u2019ve said, supported foreign investment, with some safeguards. If it is just to sell off assets, land, or intellectual property (IP) from this country by bringing in investors, that will not deliver the net benefit that our country needs. We have no shortage of capital in this country\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290646c7621fd499193856a17e5915f0e\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, we do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e7e4fcb4af84156bde8d2eba7083687\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: No, we don\u2019t actually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022889da22098dd43279e8b3e2f3d5d87a5\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: We do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263079015508b475d9af0fae7993e9835\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: No, actually\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251d1168432464a72a093639d0f8357ad\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: We absolutely do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022408b02ab9928409494f101396b3a1850\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if the members over there would like to go and just do some research on the amount of New Zealand capital that is invested offshore, it is literally hundreds of billions of dollars. This is New Zealanders\u2019 money, hundreds of billions that is invested offshore to attract income\u2014we accept that\u2014and we already have foreign investment in this country that is quite significant. Indeed, in March 2024, we had a level of about $171 billion of foreign investment in our country put to good purpose, for the most part, delivering $26 billion of income for those investors that flows offshore, outside of our economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWe had, as I say, $128 billion, at last count, of investment offshore. The question should be asked, as we\u2019re moving forward, to manage investment flows in and out of our country, as to whether we would be better off investing in ourselves, and indeed we may reduce the outflow of capital\u2014the $26 billion might be reduced; that could be kept in our country to keep the economy growing\u2014and whether long term that would deliver us the sovereign rights and control of the direction of our economy. This bill simply sets up an agency to shift the investment objectives of New Zealand Trade and Enterprise into an autonomous Government agency, under the direction of a Minister who can direct the chief executive to provide guidance to the board. For what purposes? It\u2019s very vague.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ESo, while we appreciate and understand the value of foreign investment into our country, and have done to get us to where we are, the question is: do we need a real estate agency, as is being set up here, to simply go out and attract buyers of assets and of the valuable part of our country\u2014be it businesses, be it IP, be it land or houses\u2014just for the benefit of foreign investors? Labour will not support this bill, and we will be questioning it right through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022df9e4742fa974a3cbe1e97779db10dbe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df9e4742fa974a3cbe1e97779db10dbe\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think that we first need to address the bigger question, I guess, in some ways, in this room. Here we are, speaking on a new bill, despite the fact that we have pulled the plug halfway through a committee of the whole House stage of a bill, and then we have just stopped the previous bill, the Rates Rebate Amendment Bill, in the second reading to introduce a new bill, because this Government, frankly, can\u2019t handle the fact that every bill they introduced in this House under this urgency is, frankly, baseless and without an ounce of evidence and cannot stand the Opposition\u2019s scrutiny. So what we are seeing is all of these sort of things being pushed through as a result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcb6883beb5c4d11b5e358ce5b333f79\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m a little bit concerned that the member there, in his diatribe\u2014while I know we\u2019re in the middle of a debate\u2014just forgot that the Greens just supported the last Government bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5e6920a7112452cb0828e1d57c1950f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not a point of order, Mr Court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022191cb875ea41474e8eeafb77c1c9f3db\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker, and I thank that member for his contribution, although juvenile as it is. Now, when we are looking at this particular bill, when we\u2019re looking at this Invest New Zealand Bill, essentially what we are asking for is to set up a brand new agency that\u2019s going to cost New Zealand taxpayers millions of dollars, under urgency, without the ability to scrutinise. That\u2019s the thing: we are pushing through bills under first and second reading only because of the fact that we are under urgency and we don\u2019t have to go through a select committee stage. Let me put it on the record as saying: if for this bill we are going straight to second reading without a committee stage, then it is the Government trying to avoid having to call another urgency for a select committee stage. That is clear if we are going to second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec84d1a326a64398b6a8249e04e9043a\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you won\u2019t know, will you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220057b16c435d47c79121c6d6120525ee\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s why I\u2019m proposing the question. That\u2019s why it\u2019s a question. We shall see, but when we\u2019re looking at this bill, I think the first question is\u2014look, trade is important. It is a fundamental aspect of human civilisation and it\u2019s one of the earliest forms of profession in the world. It is supposed to be something that benefits everyone within the community. Indeed, under the last Government, we saw the report All for Trade and Trade for All being produced on improvements that we could be making in terms of our trade opportunities and potential here in Aotearoa. Let me tell you: this new agency was not part of that trade-for-all report. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThis agency that we are looking at here will do nothing to genuinely support the people of Aotearoa other than selling Aotearoa off bits at a time, both in terms of human capital and in terms of our physical environment. Why do we need this? I think that is the question. Why do we need this, when in all of the reviews we\u2019ve done for NZTE\u2014that\u2019s New Zealand Trade and Enterprise\u2014didn\u2019t show any evidence, to my knowledge, that suggests that NZTE is not performing? So why are we carving out what NZTE is already doing into a new agency? Who is this agency going to be for? I think the previous speaker, the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor, captured this really accurately. We see in the regulatory impact statement people saying that there are asymmetries of information, investment, and biases between domestic and international. Oh! Should we be criticised and penalised for taking care of our own people? Is that what we are looking at here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThis bill here is nothing more than a terms of reference that is riddled with concerns and issues and biases and monopolisation and lack of transparency for something that should be benefiting everyone in Aotearoa, as expressed in the trade-for-all report. So I won\u2019t, in my first reading speech, talk about the specificities of this, because, frankly, I am still looking forward to the possibility of having a select committee stage to really discuss with the officials and the Ministers and also the New Zealand public why we should be spending all of this money on this agency in the first place. So the Green Party of Aotearoa will not support this particular bill, because we do not see this as something that would be beneficial to trade in Aotearoa in the long term. If we do not have a select committee stage, and we move on to the second reading, there is a lot more for me to say on that. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f55679fa01d45e789883bf822df70f3\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: The ACT Party is going to support this bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00225908ec4e28f74ca48e745b8f460b0974\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225908ec4e28f74ca48e745b8f460b0974\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Are you seeking a call, Mr Court?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e68ce459a99f4c789e88a88282783cc4\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259ecf7a9364b4a268775ebeb9277b8c6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Simon Court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6a125d541594603a93fceacd058f84f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6a125d541594603a93fceacd058f84f\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. The ACT Party will of course support this bill. This is a great bill. It establishes Invest New Zealand as a Crown entity to facilitate, promote, and support foreign investment in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has historically lacked a stand-alone centralised agency focused exclusively on attracting capital and investment. Investment functions have been spread across multiple agencies, including New Zealand Trade and Enterprise, the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, and of course, regional economic development bodies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThis bill responds to recommendations from economic advisory groups telling the Government that the international investors and local investors need to know how to access Government so we can participate in major projects and new assets. We need a coordinated and strategic approach to attract investment. It links this bill to the Overseas Investment Act because, as Minister Jones made clear in his reply to the Budget, this bill is complementary. There\u2019s no point in setting up Invest New Zealand, however, unless we start treating investors as a taonga\u2014rather than terrorists, like the Opposition would. Invest New Zealand makes it clear we want them to come here and we will respect them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ELabour won\u2019t support it, but their finance spokesperson recently agreed with the use of public-private partnerships, which, because of their scale, rely heavily on not just local investors but international investors prepared to bring billions of dollars to New Zealand to help us deliver major projects. That is incoherent and it shows that Labour are not fit to govern New Zealanders, not for years, not for decades at the rate they\u2019re going. And, of course, the Greens won\u2019t support it and they don\u2019t believe in growing New Zealand\u2019s pie with international investment, only cutting New Zealand\u2019s wealth into smaller and smaller plant-sized bites. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThis is a positive and impactful piece of legislation. It provides a single point of contact for investors. It\u2019s been hard to connect investors to major public projects. Invest New Zealand is going to play a big part in that. It\u2019s going to help align New Zealand with international best practice where many countries have dedicated investment promotion agencies. It\u2019s going to support economic development. It\u2019s going to attract investment into priority sectors, all of those sectors where we know New Zealand lacks a lot of capital oomph, and it\u2019s going to support regional development by directing investment to areas with growth potential, but that are often overlooked by significant local investors. And, of course, it\u2019s going to facilitate stronger public-private collaboration. It\u2019s going to encourage co-investment models and joint ventures aligned with our national interest. It\u2019s going to direct investors to these major project opportunities like Corrections\u2019 Christchurch Men\u2019s Prison expansion and the Northern Corridor project to link Auckland to Whang\u0101rei, 100 kilometres of new highway. That\u2019s going to be a phenomenal growth engine for the North Island and Northland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EStrategically, it supports the Government\u2019s economic strategy Going for Growth, attracting investors to New Zealand so that we can actually grow the market for jobs and make New Zealand a wealthier place to live.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThis bill is part of a broader economic transformation agenda focused on lifting productivity, diversifying the economy, and building resilience in the New Zealand investment and infrastructure market through high-quality sustainable investment opportunities that are identified and managed by Invest New Zealand. On behalf of ACT, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u002287a5687209d74cfe86106eb7e7c6508c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287a5687209d74cfe86106eb7e7c6508c\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON (Minister for Rural Communities):\u003C/span\u003E I rise as well to support this bill on behalf of New Zealand First. At its core, it\u2019s a very simple bill. It sets up the Crown entity, the structure Invest New Zealand, which is a one-stop shop to enable the attraction of foreign capital in New Zealand. So we do support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThat said, it is no secret that New Zealand First is at the more cautious end of the coalition regarding foreign investment. New Zealand First\u2014it says it on the tin\u2014and we are unwavering in our view that with regard to assets like farmland, existing family homes, fishing quota, key strategic assets like ports and airports, and this is certainly our preference, that the State builds our own hospitals and schools. We must not become tenants in our own land. There is no free lunch with foreign investment, and we need to be aware of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EWe have a structural current account deficit, and the sale of all our major banks offshore shows that it is not one-way traffic. But we are pragmatic, and we are not for \u201CFortress New Zealand\u201D. New Zealand has always needed foreign investment, and it certainly does now. We have insufficient funds to address a major infrastructure deficit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThe other thing this bill does is it does actually focus New Zealand Trade and Enterprise on the doubling exports part about getting out and building our export base and creating market opportunities for our exporters. Our vision for Invest Zealand is to attract high-quality, long-term foreign investors who can assist us in building capacity\u2014new capacity\u2014to grow the economy, create jobs, build infrastructure, and bring expertise, particularly in areas around mining, energy, and further manufacturing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EIt does give us, as the Minister said, access to their domestic and international markets. That is a good thing. That is actually an essential thing. Every member of the Parliament should have digested this book\u2014the fiscal strategy report\u2014and should be memorising it. It shows us that if we do not grow the growth curve bend in this country, future politicians not too far down the line are going to have to be making some very painful choices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First chooses growth, so we choose to support this bill. In doing so, we\u2019re making New Zealand a more welcoming and seamless entity to attract high-quality foreign investment. So New Zealand First will support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb3634d57a24454f865b61f4f98b59bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb3634d57a24454f865b61f4f98b59bc\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m going to raise this glass just like my beloved cousin did the other night with oil in it when he gave his magnificent speech expressing what Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori might do with it and what the Green Party would do with it, and I do that just to, I guess, add a little bit of interest to the speech that I\u2019m about to provide you with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ETodd, in 1990, I was in a room with your dad in Taup\u014D, and the question to all that were there\u2014there was a number of politicians. The question was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8d39fca56f14ffbbdb710bbc63e93ae\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: If I could ask\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222556a485724c4399bf7b416dff77abe0\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Todd McClay, sorry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa172d93e0b5431691421d2500e7f8c6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: If I could ask you to k\u014Drero mai ki a au, kaua ki te tangata [you to speak to me, not to anyone else]. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250c0035a741a4de79d054a6fd2beb0ba\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I\u2019m sorry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208570374b02842039da87da72a2b4282\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229468672196df4c97b9da12cd4b72cbb2\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: I was expressing to Todd McClay that I was at a hui in 1990 with Todd McClay\u2019s father, Roger McClay, and they were discussing\u2014these politicians\u2014what is tino rangatiratanga, and his wonderful k\u014Drero was, \u201CWell, I\u2019ve just been down to Ng\u0101ti Porou,\u201D he said, \u201Cand it\u2019s about all these young boys planting trees up the maunga, Meno.\u201D I said, \u201CWell, that\u2019s not tino rangatiratanga; that is merely the beginning. That\u2019s just our young fellows planting trees.\u201D Tino rangatiratanga in 1990 was more than that. It was not just about planting the trees; it was deciding whether trees would be planted at all, where would they be planted, how would they be planted, when would they be harvested, where would they be sold, would we sell them, and all of that. That is tino rangatiratanga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ESo in regard to this investment idea, it concerns me greatly. It concerns me greatly, Todd McClay, that from that particular time with your dear dad to now, things have, I\u2019d say, gone downhill even further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ESo the key to economic growth\u2014so this what I know about economic growth for M\u0101ori. Tourists come to Aotearoa to see M\u0101ori people. They come to see things: our tikanga, they come to see our haka, they come to understand the indigenous wh\u0101nau, what we\u2019re made up of\u2014in fact, what I\u2019m about to go do in a couple of weeks\u2019 time when I go to Japan. And what they want to understand is\u2014see, we have our M\u0101ori ownership of our own M\u0101ori businesses. We have our own diverse range of M\u0101ori businesses. Yes, we\u2019ve got the primary industries, we\u2019ve got agriculture, we\u2019re into forest\u2014Te Aup\u014Duri\u2014we\u2019ve got one of the biggest pieces of dirt with lots of trees on it. So I get it from that aspect. That\u2019s M\u0101ori in business, understanding and knowing how do we do that at home. How do we look after that at home? How does that flourish on our own lands from our own business models and our own ways? So I want to make those points as I go to the next about\u2014oh, and by the way, we\u2019re great at fashion, we\u2019re great at food, we\u2019re great at health models, and we\u2019re great at rongo\u0101. Those are all the things that M\u0101ori have and know in our own kete, right? We do all of that\u2014we do all of that. Would I want to sell that off? Well, absolutely not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ESo why this is bad\u2014and there\u2019s a bunch of bad ones. They all link together. So when all the bad things get together, they call it the Treaty principles bill. Oh, it got voted down, that\u2019s right. Sorry, I\u2019ll put that aside. Then you add fast-track approvals\u2014that\u2019s very bad. Then you add regulatory standards\u2014let\u2019s just really worsen the scenario. And then Treaty clauses\u2014all of those together. When you bunch all of that together, we are buried, and that boot is still on our throat. So when you come with a \u201CLook, we\u2019ve got this little idea and we\u2019ve got to set up an agency, and it\u2019s going to be good for you M\u0101ori, so, you know, just give us a thumbs up.\u201D It\u2019s not going to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EWe need to understand how it\u2019s going to occur, whether we even want it\u2014whether we even want it at all. From what I\u2019m reading, it doesn\u2019t look good. No, I wouldn\u2019t want to sell off to the highest bidder. When investors from overseas don\u2019t know us, don\u2019t appreciate us, they will not bring them profits home. They will swan on by and go \u201CSee you, Meno. That was really real. Thank you very much.\u201D We never see them again. If they don\u2019t know us and they don\u2019t understand\u2014and I mean us; I mean tangata whenua. They don\u2019t know us; they won\u2019t appreciate us. That is why this is a dangerous idea and, shucks, we will not support it in any regard. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4ed57a9835a43d6b646802ab924583a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4ed57a9835a43d6b646802ab924583a\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E This is not about selling off New Zealand, this is actually about building New Zealand\u2014building New Zealand. What the hell did they build for six years? Nothing\u2014nothing. We would love to be wandering around the country, cutting their ribbons, but with absolutely no ribbons to cut\u2014they left us with nothing other than debt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EInvest New Zealand will streamline the investment process and provide tailored support to foreign investors. It will increase capital investment across critical infrastructure\u2014building roads, building tunnels, building bridges like that $56 billion bridge you were going to build over the harbour in Auckland; never done, never achievable, but you promised it\u2014fostering greater innovation in key sectors and attracting world-class talent to the shores. I commend this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1ec3ee03695419391b4dfa89aa8254c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1ec3ee03695419391b4dfa89aa8254c\u0022\u003EREUBEN DAVIDSON (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I finally get to deliver a speech on this Invest New Zealand Bill. I thought I was going to be doing that this morning because I heard that we were under urgency, but it doesn\u2019t appear that there\u2019s much happening very urgently, so I think it\u2019s false advertising on the part of our Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003EI thought it would be very good to reflect before we step into the purpose of this bill on where we are at in Budget week, particularly for our science, innovation, and technology sector, which this bill affects deeply, because what we\u2019ve seen in the Budget, this last week, is a whole lot of money being moved around and away from our science, innovation, and technology sector. This is a sector that, since this Government came into power, has faced unprecedented uncertainty and inconsistency to the point that it has created a crisis in our science sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2b118b49bb54a6788fccb3db086b928\u0022\u003EHon James Meager\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a29a19aeb4d472e8148cbd9926dac12\u0022\u003EREUBEN DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: A member calls out \u201CRubbish!\u201D He obviously hasn\u2019t had conversations with the people who hold it together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003ENow, I will come back to the bill, specifically back to the policy objective of the bill. This bill says in its explanatory note that it wants to \u201Cprovide a permissive environment\u201D. That does not sound to me like responsible investment. I can see New Zealand First MPs quaking in fear about a \u201Cpermissive environment\u201D. \tThey will shake and quake even more if they read on to see the note that says, \u201Cif directed by the responsible Minister,\u201D. That is singular\u2014just the one Minister: \u201Cif directed by the Minister,\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003ETrust is at risk here with this bill, with the level of power that it hands over to a small number of people when it comes to the matter of investment in New Zealand. Or let\u2019s talk about what it is: selling New Zealand. Now, I don\u2019t know if you\u2019ve seen one of these before; it\u2019s a regulatory impact statement (RIS), a very rare breed in this House\u2014a very rare breed. Not only do they not read them, as pointed out by one of my colleagues, but very rarely do they ask for them. But option one in this regulatory impact statement has two magic words\u2014\u201Cstatus quo\u201D\u2014which means this very bill and the objective that it sets out already have a function of Government doing exactly what you claim to want to be doing. Reading on through the RIS under \u201CBalance of benefits and costs\u201D, it simply says, \u201CIt is difficult to anticipate quantitative benefits.\u201D\u2014\u201CIt is difficult to anticipate quantitative benefits.\u201D Let\u2019s keep reading: \u201CLimitations and constraints on analysis\u201D. This will be interesting: \u201CVarious factors limit our ability to quantify the exact net increase in foreign direct investment that will be attributable to this policy initiative.\u201D It goes on, and I will too: \u201CDecisions have been made on this process prior to this regulatory analysis. This has necessitated decisions being made about Invest NZ at an earlier stage before analysis could be completed.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First are starting to look like they are feeling a little sick, and they reach for the bucket because this is where it gets bad: \u201CThe speed of implementation required for establishing Invest New Zealand presents risk of delivery as inadequate time may compromise development of the entity\u2019s functions.\u201D We should be very concerned, and we are, which is why we are opposing this bill. But it is unbelievable to see that the priorities of this Government, who\u2014under urgency, which I must say they\u2019ve moved at record slowness, their version of urgency\u2014are trying to push this bill through. I have plenty more to say on it. I look forward to further calls, and most of all, I look forward to dissecting it slowly in the committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7b9b49971944261ac5ad77575131529\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7b9b49971944261ac5ad77575131529\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E That was a weird speech from Reuben Davidson. But what I would like to say is we\u2019ve got a great Prime Minister and a great trade Minister that wants to do business with the real world. Up until now, we\u2019ve been all show, no go\u2014all hui, no do-ey. Well, that stops tonight. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00229df44f3cf64d42389521af957f7a8a99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229df44f3cf64d42389521af957f7a8a99\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E A tiny bit of history for the newbies on the other side of the House: there used to be an entity called Investment New Zealand. It wasn\u2019t actually especially effective. So, eventually, instead of being a stand-alone entity within New Zealand Trade and Enterprise (NZTE), it was folded back into NZTE\u2014this is back in around about 2003. This has been tried before. It didn\u2019t work then, and it\u2019s actually not clear how it\u2019s going to work now. The regulatory impact statement is a joy in terms of finding ways to say to the Minister for Trade and Enterprise, \u201CYou\u2019re wrong.\u201D It\u2019s actually just a misplaced policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI think one of the ways that we can see most clearly that it is a misdirected policy at best is by looking at the comparisons that are made with invest Ireland, and the claims that invest Ireland is what has made Ireland successful in attracting all the multinational companies and the high-tech investment and so on. I have to say that\u2019s disingenuous at best. Of course, the first thing is that Ireland is much physically closer to the economic powerhouse of Europe\u2014in fact, it\u2019s part of it. But here\u2019s the other thing that is quite different about Ireland in terms of attracting foreign direct investment: it\u2019s not the existence of invest Ireland; it\u2019s the extraordinarily low corporate tax rate, which, in fact, amounts to a huge subsidy by Ireland to the foreign direct investors in Ireland. It is a huge subsidy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s the thing: we agree. We agree that it is worthwhile working with foreign investors. We agree that there can be a place for it, that it is a useful way to leverage our own capital in order to ensure that we get some of our projects built. That\u2019s not the issue in itself. The issue is that foreign investors want a return. They don\u2019t come here because they think New Zealand is a pretty country. They don\u2019t come here because of hobbits and orcs and mountains and all those sorts of things. They come here because they want a return, and a return that takes money out of New Zealand as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, ideally, everyone gets better off because of foreign investment, but it has to be really, very, very carefully assessed in the first place as to whether or not it is worth us going down that track\u2014instead of this particular project which is just laying out the welcome mat and saying, \u201CCome in and take what you want.\u201D That is not a good strategy for New Zealand. So we really need to examine this very, very thoroughly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s quite amazing that this project of Invest New Zealand was announced by the Prime Minister way back on 24 January this year. That was an announcement that was off the back of the Science System Advisory Group report. He announced Invest New Zealand back on 24 January, and yet it has taken until now to get this legislation into the House. Not only that, it is being done under urgency\u2014urgency which we suspect will be used to skip the select committee process so that this proposal cannot be adequately examined by this Parliament. That is a disgrace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe way that urgency has been used this session is appalling. There is good reason for using urgency to put some tax changes through. There is good reason for using urgency when fiscal needs demand it. But doing it for this, for setting up a particular Crown organisation? That is an abuse of urgency. We have fought urgency all the way this time; they kept us here until 1 o\u2019clock, and it\u2019s because that side of the House has abused urgency. Every time that side of the House abuses urgency, we will test and test and test it to the limit. Say goodbye to your families, people. We will test this all the way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a71276f9c96943a5af6663dfeaa66495\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a71276f9c96943a5af6663dfeaa66495\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National):\u003C/span\u003E Our vision is about growth, growth, growth, so Invest New Zealand will unlock this potential. Invest New Zealand will grow New Zealand. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cac9a18c37c744fa9fee37241aba651f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Invest New Zealand Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001159\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7968c4e316946549a9d5a583bb430ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7968c4e316946549a9d5a583bb430ca\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is set down for second reading immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022abf9b15fd32941faa92f2d55cde53a7a\u0022\u003ESecond Reading \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7576a3c234f4284ad3d6ab61ba057f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7576a3c234f4284ad3d6ab61ba057f5\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (Minister for Trade and Investment):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Invest New Zealand Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI want to thank all members across the House for the views they have shared during the first reading, but I would like to clarify a couple of points because I don\u2019t think the bill is as well understood as it could be. I\u2019d like to be clear that Invest New Zealand will be focused on attracting investment into high-value sectors with the potential to raise productivity, expand research and development, and drive increased activity by multinationals and other investors in the New Zealand economy. It will not work to attract investment in sectors that could pose national security risks in New Zealand, and investment will still need to comply with the Overseas Investment Act\u2014it doesn\u2019t alter that; it is guided by it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EAs outlined in the first reading speech, the key functions of this bill are to establish Invest New Zealand as an autonomous Crown agency, an entity to focus on bringing investment to New Zealand, rather than a broader mandate that New Zealand Trade and Enterprise currently has. To provide for its objectives, functions, and operations, this will be by establishing an agency whose sole focus is attracting that investment, and we have exciting opportunities to transform New Zealand into a top-tier destination for high-quality international investment that\u2019s good for New Zealand and good for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI do note the comments by the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor\u2014and I know that when he, previously, in the last Government, was trade Minister, he had many opportunities to talk to investors from around the world who were interested in investing in New Zealand. I daresay and imagine he tried to attract them to New Zealand into areas that would help grow the economy or, in partnership, grow New Zealand businesses. But he too would have realised that it is often harder than it should be for that capital to come to New Zealand to benefit New Zealanders to grow the economy, and it often goes elsewhere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWe should compare ourselves against the country in the world with the highest level of foreign direct investment on a GDP basis, which is Ireland; we should compare ourselves to Singapore, that attracted almost eight times the foreign direct investment last year that New Zealand did. Because in both cases, their citizens earn more, they have more opportunity provided for them, they have better jobs, and they\u2019ve done it in partnership with that capital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWe can\u2019t get rich selling to ourselves; we won\u2019t become wealthier by only investing in ourselves. This is a nation that has always attracted foreign direct investment. This Government backs growth, it backs New Zealanders, it backs the companies of New Zealand, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u002297a0c502aa014047a849a692605308a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297a0c502aa014047a849a692605308a3\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I take issue with that Minister who said we will not get wealthy by investing in ourselves. What an outrageous, unpatriotic statement to make in this Parliament. What we need is to invest in ourselves, in ways of education, in ways of research and development, in better housing and infrastructure\u2014investing in ourselves, believing in ourselves, and getting the return through future generations. Not seeing the 191 people who leave this country every single day because they\u2019ve lost faith in New Zealand and they\u2019re going somewhere else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll go to the regulatory impact statement\u2014the Government\u2019s own assessment of this: \u201CNote that an increase in the level of foreign investment will not necessarily equate to an improvement in access to capital or productivity. This is because the impacts of the increased foreign direct investment are dependent on the characteristics of the domestic firms. Investment in non-productive areas will not necessarily improve access to capital, particularly if a given domestic sector already has sufficient access to capital. Foreign direct investment will only improve access to capital if it is directed to sectors and firms where access to capital is currently lacking.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWe welcome, and have welcomed, foreign investment into this country. The Minister is right. We do talk to people who are interested in coming to our country\u2014but for the right reasons: to ensure that we have long-term benefit from that, not just selling off our country. In fact, the primary objective of this agency in relation to the outcomes is an increase in the level of foreign direct investment in New Zealand\u2014full stop. We have amendments that we will talk about in the committee stage that ensure it is subject to the net benefit and ongoing sustainable development of our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re not here just to deliver profits and returns to foreign investors. We\u2019re here\u2014or I am, and people on this side of the House are\u2014for New Zealand and our future generations, not for the opportunities of foreign investors. We\u2019re happy to have partnerships, but we must ensure that the benefits accrue to us. We are told that we have a shortage of capital\u2014I don\u2019t think many New Zealanders would understand: we have $373 billion\u2014sorry, we did have in March 2024; it\u2019s probably improved since then\u2014of New Zealanders\u2019 money invested offshore. Well, I would suggest that many sensible New Zealanders would say, \u201CActually, why aren\u2019t we investing a little bit more of that ourselves?\u201D We have KiwiSaver funds\u2014and can I thank Michael Cullen and the Labour Government for finally committing ourselves to develop investment funds that we own and can control. How much is there? There\u2019s $111 billion in KiwiSaver funds. The Superannuation Fund has $76 billion, and 85 percent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c16547c62c2941e5bcd5b0430d8f06a5\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s invested offshore.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b364dafcb8f04762a895611e92799ede\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is invested offshore, and can I say that because the fund managers have freedom to invest wherever they like, and they receive income and bonuses on the basis of maximising the return\u2014the short-term return\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022016d1e08afe44de98832f88b548379f9\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: No, the long-term return. That\u2019s how it works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221dde865286af4dadb925472b46e98207\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014no, the short-term return\u2014for their incomes. I suggest that the ACT Party will never understand this. I\u2019m not even going to try and explain it to them. The long-term returns to our country depend upon investing in infrastructure and assets and people and research and development that give us more opportunities into the future. I suspect\u2014and someone asked why this bill has come to the House now under urgency. Well, I think it\u2019s because Winston Peters is away, because let me quote: \u201CNew Zealand First stands\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c923dc5ff80c465f993390571f976875\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. The Standing Orders are very clear. Members are not allowed to refer to other members not being in the House. I ask that you ask that member to withdraw and apologise. He\u2019s a very experienced member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bce00253e49840c89f276a8ea8d5054d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: OK, I take the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f29a3ce764194fd8aade7d1a985026bc\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I didn\u2019t say the member wasn\u2019t in the House. I said he\u2019s away. It\u2019s widely known that he\u2019s offshore doing valuable work for us. Mr Speaker, can I quote?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022760d1f933f3a4ebb9eecc2122e4eb031\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I take your point but please move on with your speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284e964bb817446919a1bf1290a1db08d\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I am moving on: \u201CNew Zealand First stands for controls and restrictions on foreign investment. We oppose making it easier for foreigners to come into this country, leave their money, buy our businesses, buy our homes, and buy our land.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230fb3b6db04c457bbdc70afaeb7faacd\u0022\u003EHon Mark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly what I said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c3987ab14c841b4bd001007f10c2840\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: No, not quite, because if the member goes and reads the objectives of Invest New Zealand, he will find that it\u2019s not out to necessarily ensure\u2014as I quoted from the regulatory impact statement\u2014that the money coming in here\u2014and he can vote for our amendments if he does support this\u2014does deliver net sustainable benefits for all New Zealanders. No, it\u2019s just coming in, possibly, for opportunistic investments into a country that has no capital gains tax, and those investors can take away, as they did last year, $26 billion from our economy into their pockets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ENow, that\u2019s perfectly reasonable. They\u2019ve been able to do that. We can\u2019t stop or challenge that. The question is: is there a better way forward and can we invest more in ourselves? Because this agency has been set up, in my view, just to sell New Zealand\u2014to sell New Zealand. Well, it\u2019s about time we invested in ourselves, and if we do get foreign capital in here, we put conditions and provisions on it, as suggested by New Zealand First, and we welcome their support for our amendments. That money can come in and work in partnership, but it must have conditions that ensure the long-term benefit for our country, not at the expense of others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ENow, let\u2019s have a look at what we see. If it comes into houses, no doubt it will drive up the price of houses. People might feel better in the short term. What does that do to long-term housing affordability? If the money comes into research and development\u2014because the Government has squeezed money for research and development; they have taken money from a core part of our economic development for the future and they\u2019re hoping that this money will come in and replace it. Well, you don\u2019t get something for nothing, and if they\u2019re going to invest into our research and development sector and into the bright minds and innovative practices of Kiwis, then those investors are likely to take that IP offshore. Where does that leave us into the future? There are many, many questions in this piece of legislation that we will be asking during the committee stage of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIt is a sad day when we have to have a real estate agent for New Zealand, run by the Government that says it wants growth for them, not for us. I\u2019ve got real concerns about the direction of travel for our country under this current coalition Government. I would have thought that New Zealand First, in particular, in this area of foreign investment, would have had the courage to stand up for what it has stated and stood on in principle over many, many years. The Minister said it: \u201CNew Zealand first.\u201D This is not New Zealand first; this is investors first\u2014this is foreign investors first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df128db176a644c3b31c5f0472c2462e\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: What a load of nonsense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b80f065ae204a72b49a8fdccad629a8\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we\u2019ll go and test some of these theories through the committee stage. I know that ACT do have a fairly open mind to sell off anything for any reasons. We have tabled a number of amendments, and we look forward to support from New Zealand First for those. They simply put in place safeguards. If this bill is to progress\u2014because the Government has the numbers\u2014the least that New Zealand First can do is stand up on its principles and support adequate controls and safeguards that mean this money will deliver additional benefits. At the moment, this agency, \u201CSell New Zealand\u201D, is simply going to go out, find any money it can, bring it into this country, for whatever projects\u2014we don\u2019t know\u2014and not necessarily deliver the long-term benefits we need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWe appreciate, and I can refer to many projects and many businesses in this country that have been set up and deliver long-term benefits for our country. But they\u2019ve been set up under Governments that have put in place those safeguards. There are no safeguards here\u2014absolutely none. New Zealand Trade and Enterprise did have an overall objective of driving an increase in trade and enterprise in this country, and the foreign investment that they sought played into that comprehensive objective. This agency simply brings foreign money into New Zealand for the purposes of the foreign investors. We oppose this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed7a0ab55b064877afa0463f1f2ef517\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed7a0ab55b064877afa0463f1f2ef517\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand to hear and oppose this bill. Here we are in the second reading because this Government simply cannot have the guts to let the New Zealand public weigh in and have a say on an entirely new Crown agency that they are creating here under urgency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI look forward to, following the second reading, spending time with everyone here in this House during the committee stage and getting the chance to have a chat with the Minister, alongside other members of this House, to really scrutinise why we need to have this agency in the first place. So, Mr Speaker, and also to the Government, I look forward to this opportunity coming up after the second reading tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EOn to the second reading of this speech. I think one of the things that is really apparent, and I want to address this up front and centre, is the complete and alarming lack of any form of Te Tiriti analysis in this bill\u2014not just on this bill but also in this bill. The concern that we see when it comes to the department impact statement: \u201CWhat is the policy objective? The policy objective is to lower foreign investors\u2019 liability of foreignness as much as possible.\u201D I echo the previous speaker, the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor, to really question this Government of who we are placing first here with this agency. If this is the policy objective, is this really putting Aotearoa New Zealand first? Maybe a political party who have supported this bill should call themselves \u201CForeigners First\u201D instead of New Zealand First, or\u2014even more appropriately\u2014\u201CMigrants First\u201D, because, God, that party certainly loves themselves some migrants!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to Te Tiriti, what we are seeing here is a complete disregard for the foundation document of Aotearoa New Zealand. What we are seeing here, as we see in all of the trade deals that we have been negotiating under this Government\u2014and that includes the latest New Zealand - United Arab Emirates Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement\u2014is Te Tiriti still being placed as a tag-along, as something that is nice to have rather than a core part of what we are offering here in Aotearoa New Zealand, both to our own people and how we would like to see ourselves projected on the international stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EWhen we are looking at why people would like to invest in Aotearoa New Zealand, the world has moved on, but this Government has not. This Government would love to be stuck in the 18th century, like all of their policies around offshore mining, seabed bottom trawling when we were looking at opening gas and oil exploration, removing all of our climate obligations, a lacklustre emissions reduction plan, not upholding anything under the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People, putting more M\u0101ori and Pasifika in prison, and putting more of our young people in prison. That is not what other people would like to contribute. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EIndeed, we have heard from our overseas partners that they are concerned with the way that Aotearoa New Zealand is moving. They are concerned because it is out of step with our international obligations. They are concerned at our complete disregard to environmental protection under this Government. So I ask you: under this Government and under this agency, what are they hoping to do? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EWhen we are looking at this particular bill, and when we are looking at the way that we promote ourselves internationally, our most successful marketing campaign as a country is the fact that we paint ourselves as a clean and green country. Yet the truth now is so much further away from that. What we are seeing are unswimmable rivers. What we\u2019re seeing is beaches that, with the tiniest bit of rain, or even during dry season, people can\u2019t swim in. Those kinds of lack of sustainable goals and sustainable targets is not what foreigners or investors would like to invest in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThey are afraid that when they are investing here\u2014for those of them who would like to have the Government\u2019s ear in terms of opening more offshore drilling or allowing for more mining permits\u2014they know they\u2019re only getting a short-term gain out of this, and they know that they can exploit Aotearoa New Zealand, because they couldn\u2019t do it to any other country. Other countries have moved on; yet they know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EWe removed the Clean Car Discount. It was a great form of input for us. You have clean-car companies who are like, \u201CWe were hoping to invest more, but do you know what? We\u2019ve got all of these really fuel-intensive vehicles that we can\u2019t push off to any other country.\u201D But do you know what? Aotearoa New Zealand will then become a dumping ground for all of these sorts of things. This is what this agency and this bill will allow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EWe are looking at the fact that when we get to talking about some of these issues, like I said, foreign investors will not invest\u2014or the kind of foreign investors we would like to attract will not invest\u2014in a country that doesn\u2019t invest in itself. What is so telling about this\u2014and as part of the Budget 2025\u2014is the fact that the bulk of the funding that is going to be funded towards Invest New Zealand, as the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor said so accurately, as a real estate agency for Aotearoa New Zealand, comes out of Callaghan Innovation, an institute that this Government cut that is supposed to support local and New Zealand entrepreneurs and innovators. Instead, we are taking that money from people of Aotearoa and then trying to use that money to draw overseas investors. That is not going to work and is not a long-term solution; it is, at most, a band-aid. We may not even get to the band-aid stage, because this agency is going to fall apart, because there is nothing tangible that we can see that\u2019s going to hold this agency in itself accountable to the functions and targets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EWith that, we do have a number of amendments that, hopefully, will amend or address some of these concerns and risks that we are seeing. When we are looking at international trade, we know the precariousness of our position internationally. We have seen, and the Minister has also spoken about the fact\u2014how the US tariff and the changes in geopolitics has affected our own ability to do trade and how we have to be agile in response to that. So we know from that that we should be investing in our own people first. We know that we should be putting in more investment in education, in health, and in regional areas, but this is not going to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that wants to talk the talk but not walk the walk. This is a Government that through its Budget would like to paint a beautiful picture for the people of Aotearoa but without addressing any of the core issues that it\u2019s experiencing. This is a Budget that only reprioritises money from one area to another, because, ultimately, this is an austere Government that only cares about balancing the books but will not actually, ironically, invest in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ESo I challenge the House\u2014and I challenge all of us\u2014to be able to have this debate coming up in the committee stage. Some of these, as we heard from the Minister, we are basing on Singapore and we\u2019re basing on Ireland. But do you know what? Neither of those two countries care about speculative investment. They are there to invest, genuinely, in the arts and culture and technology of those countries; they\u2019re not there just for the landlords. That is the difference we\u2019re seeing between this Government and those countries they refer to. So, with that, the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand will not support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1beebf9459d4262a2989e597638c1dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1beebf9459d4262a2989e597638c1dc\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E That is why this bill is needed; because, after six years of a Labour-Green Government wrecking investor confidence, doing crazy things like banning oil and gas exploration, tanking one of our most productive sectors that keeps the lights on and energy prices low, New Zealand is simply not set up to channel the growing interest in investing in this great country that this Government has generated with the policies that we are putting in place. We are an open economy and we need investment. We have a hunger for capital. The hundreds of billions of dollars invested here in New Zealand and by Kiwis overseas shows that this is a country that is facing up to the realities of having to grow our business in a pretty tough environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EI\u2019m shocked and surprised that Labour won\u2019t support this bill. But, look, even hearing about the Greens and Labour spouting this xenophobic nonsense, this fearmongering about foreigners, fearmongering about foreigners buying New Zealand assets, it was shocking and disturbing from people who claim to be social justice warriors\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea1d030e1026495599ef23c24d1b1023\u0022\u003EFrancisco Hernandez\u003C/span\u003E: Look who you\u2019re in coalition with. Don\u2019t talk about xenophobia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6dadb3b39cc445f8b7281dd6d9431b3\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and even from people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022694c021217de476bb70ddfeff5ed1011\u0022\u003EFrancisco Hernandez\u003C/span\u003E: The Deputy Prime Minister tells migrants they can\u2019t have their say. Nonsense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e182c89206d043e4856b2d6bd5871ea0\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: Again, you can tell, for those listening and watching at home, how triggering it is to have this pointed out to people who claim to be social justice warriors. The Opposition have no credibility on this bill. Damien O\u2019Connor and Lawrence Xu-Nan, the previous speaker, absolutely jumped the shark in their opposition to it. They were unhinged. Labour, the Greens, Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori are unfit to govern, ever, based on that position. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EACT supports this bill because it provides a pathway for international investors to invest in the assets and the infrastructure we so desperately need. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1b6f182974049869bedc981179a246b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1b6f182974049869bedc981179a246b\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON (Minister for Rural Communities):\u003C/span\u003E This is a pretty narrow bill. It\u2019s been an interesting philosophical debate but, essentially, it\u2019s a pretty narrow bill trying to set up this Crown entity, Invest New Zealand. It has seemed to draw a bit of attention to New Zealand First from the Labour Party, and following on from Simon Court\u2014what a pale comparison to the Labour Party\u2019s farce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EI can tell you that unless we grow this economy, all the visions that you might have for throwing money around are not going to happen. Look at the things we\u2019ve championed. Fast track\u2014to get projects going. We\u2019re supporting Simon Court and Chris Bishop in getting the wider Resource Management Act reforms. The Regional Infrastructure Fund: $1.2 billion into regional New Zealand. Championing mining\u2014remember that? You used to champion mining, Reuben Davidson and Damien O\u2019Connor, when you had a Labour Party worth the name. The West Coast is booming, thanks to Shane Jones. Water storage and irrigation. Energy\u2014the $200 million investment into oil and gas exploration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EWe will not stand aside\u2014like the Labour Party looks like it\u2019s doing\u2014while New Zealand deindustrialises. We\u2019re going to stand up for New Zealand. That\u2019ll mean attracting some foreign capital and some overseas expertise, so that\u2019s where our focus is. We\u2019re going to throw the absolute kitchen sink at this. We\u2019re not going to allow ourselves to be smothered by the Greens and their Marxist ideology, and who knows what the M\u0101ori Party are doing. But we\u2019re going to build this economy and we\u2019re going to make it so that there\u2019s a future for our kids to stay here. We\u2019ll support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00227576d676e0b84aeea99585183fcecab4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227576d676e0b84aeea99585183fcecab4\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E This is like an episode of Utopia. Has anyone seen Utopia? It\u2019s meant to be like a satire, but it\u2019s actual reality\u2014is this Government, in the thick of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s two issues overall with the bill. I\u2019ll start with the first one. The first one is: what is this Invest New Zealand concept, and how many one-stop shops is the Government going to put up? Like, pretty soon they\u2019re going to need a one-stop shop for all the one-stop shops. As previous speakers in this debate have noted, they\u2019ve got fast track as a one-stop shop. But then, last year\u2014I don\u2019t know if anyone remember this\u2014the National Infrastructure Funding and Financing (NIFFCo) was established. What is the point of NIFFCo? Well, again, it\u2019s just something that\u2019s evolved, over time, and keeps getting different names. But when Minister for Infrastructure Chris Bishop announced NIFFCo, he said that the agency would be tasked with serving as a \u201Cshop front\u201D for receiving investment proposals, supporting private infrastructural investment, partnering with agencies and local government on projects involving finance, and administering the central government\u2019s infrastructure funds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo, previously, in the first reading debate, I was intrigued to hear from Mr Brewer that this bill\u2014this bill, Invest New Zealand\u2014was all about getting investors to come here and build roads and bridges and tunnels. But then, which shop front are they going to go to? Are they going to go to NIFFCo, or are they going to go to Invest New Zealand? This is getting very confusing because now we\u2019ve got two shop fronts to get foreign and private investors into infrastructure, which is actually a core responsibility of the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThat sort of brings me to my second point. I mean, firstly, we do really have to laugh about this, right? Because Invest New Zealand\u2014it just sounds like a Christopher Luxon special. It just sounds like a brainwave he had. You know, somebody who\u2019s been a corporate manager selling deodorant, or whatever, and running an airline for a while\u2014like, their big idea on how to improve productivity for our country is to set up another agency that\u2019s going to attract foreign investors. And it\u2019s the second agency. This is the second agency in less than one year that they\u2019ve set up, and they\u2019re putting in $85 million to set this up over four years\u2014$85 million for another agency to interact with investors and try to get them into building infrastructure, because they can\u2019t figure out that, actually, all we need to do is improve our tax system and make better investment decisions, and then we could actually build the infrastructure that would improve the productivity of our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EAmazingly, changing the tax system is the number one recommendation from the IMF and the OECD about how to improve productivity in New Zealand\u2014it\u2019s actually tax capital, tax land; don\u2019t tax labour. You\u2019re overtaxing workers, and low-paid workers, and you\u2019re not taxing all of the people who are earning money just through passive capital gains. And then people just put all their money\u2014like we\u2019ve seen in a recent report; how many of the Government members have millions and millions of dollars invested in property? Big surprise! They don\u2019t want to change the tax system, because that wouldn\u2019t suit them personally. But, actually\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229454612a36094db78fc5e549dc5f57ef\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s you, you fool!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1b9a5c4a67b423ba271e787be1ed7b0\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re the number one in the Greens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224df5077de8034b60a2a78da3e81be30d\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t have any investment properties; I don\u2019t know what you\u2019re talking about. But it makes sense that people invest in property, but that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f75b46a071e64a22b5ea9685687a6cdc\u0022\u003EHon James Meager\u003C/span\u003E: Do you own a home? Willow\u2019s got a home, Damien\u2019s got a home, Rachel\u2019s got a home, Tracey\u2019s got a home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be187951d9994bf39f54a4fbde3df9d1\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: James Meager, that\u2019s not how you get the economy to be more productive. Like, we understand that people personally can get ahead by investing in properties and renting them out, but that\u2019s not what makes New Zealand a better-off country. That\u2019s the whole problem: these people cannot differentiate\u2014the Government cannot differentiate\u2014between what made Christopher Luxon rich and what\u2019s actually going to make the country prosperous. You can\u2019t differentiate between those two things, so you come up with Invest New Zealand. \u201CWe\u2019ll just get some really great salespeople to go overseas and get all the benevolent rich people overseas to come here and build our infrastructure and buy our things, and then they will make money out of it and take it back offshore!\u201D It\u2019s the same problem that\u2019s happened since the 1980s and 1990s. Why can\u2019t you learn from history, Government members?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why I say this could be a Utopia episode. I can imagine Chris Luxon coming up with the idea of Invest New Zealand: \u201CI know how we\u2019re going to tackle this productivity problem.\u201D [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce378843b9a24fb4bdf2436c139bc506\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I want members to not have a conversation in the middle of the speech. If you want to have a conversation across the Chamber, you\u2019ve got the hallways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226b64d3428b44de8be39a4dc1777d830\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. But, like, more seriously, it\u2019s basically a joke that you\u2019re going to have another one-stop shop and spend $85 million over the next four years for an agency, when we already had New Zealand Trade and Enterprise, we already had NIFFCo, we already have plenty of opportunities, and we had the Government spending heaps of money on the public-private partnership (PPP) investor summit. What\u2019s come out of that? Crickets. I mean, I think there was one reference to one PPP project\u2014a Corrections project\u2014in the Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo you continually have the Government coming up with these ridiculous bills, setting up a second agency that\u2019s meant to be a one-stop shop. That\u2019s why the Green Party\u2019s not going to support this. I did listen with interest to the amendments that were referred to by Damien O\u2019Connor that will be coming up in the committee of the whole House stage of the bill. Of course, it would be better if this did go to a select committee so that we could consider it properly and we could hear from actual experts and people what they think about this. But that\u2019s probably not going to happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI think the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor made some really excellent points about wanting to make improvements to this bill to at least make sure that, in the process of going out and trying to hawk off New Zealand to overseas investors, we have some protection to make sure that it\u2019s actually in the long-term interests of the people of New Zealand, because it is the case that there might be a very small percentage of people who profit or become very wealthy because of attracting foreign investment to New Zealand, but I think it\u2019s highly unlikely\u2014and I think most New Zealanders would want that to actually be relevant to the long-term wellbeing of New Zealand. So we might consider supporting some amendments to the bill, but we won\u2019t be supporting the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EFundamentally, besides the \u201CWe can\u2019t think of anything else other than setting up a second agency to be a one-stop shop front for attracting foreign investors to invest in infrastructure.\u201D, I think this bill and the shallowness of this Government\u2019s assessment on how we actually build a thriving society here in Aotearoa\u2014it\u2019s really made clear through bills like this and Budgets like this: it\u2019s like there\u2019s no real depth of thinking and taking on the challenges that we\u2019re facing when it comes to climate change. In fact, they\u2019re getting rid of the green investment\u2014green investment\u2019s gone now. That was only just building up. It takes time for these institutions to build up\u2014so just five, six years after it had started, before it could really be useful, we\u2019re shutting that down, setting up a new agency, hoping that magically it\u2019ll solve New Zealand\u2019s productivity problem while we continually avoid and refuse to acknowledge the problems with our tax system which perpetuates the worst inequality and child poverty, and that inequality is actually part of our productivity problem, and that the Government can be investing at a much higher level in both infrastructure and services that help people be their best.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThis whole Budget has been quite targeted towards certain sectors of the population, just like the last one, and they\u2019re not the sectors that are going to make us a thriving, innovative society in the future, because our younger people are going overseas; they don\u2019t get opportunities. It\u2019s very, very difficult for young families. We\u2019re not building as much housing as we could be, and I know that the Minister is passionate about increasing the housing supply but literally 250 homes that would have been contracted, would have been built on K\u0101inga Ora land in my own electorate, just in Rongotai, have been cancelled since the 2023 election\u2014cancelled; not happening. That\u2019s why the construction sector is so upset and the infrastructure sector is so upset, because a whole lot of work that would have been done in the last year or two was completely cancelled by this Government. While they claim to care about these things, their actions are actually about protecting the status quo, protecting the people like them, and they\u2019ve got no real ideas or understanding. It\u2019s pathetic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u002238184fec57114cd98f4e5ff906e224b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238184fec57114cd98f4e5ff906e224b9\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, I think the first thing that Invest New Zealand should help us with is finding some funding to dig the second Mount Victoria tunnel\u2014the second Mount Victoria tunnel. The Minister of Transport would agree with that. Let\u2019s find it. The amazing thing is that when that member is in Seatoun, she\u2019s all for the second Mount Victoria tunnel; and when she\u2019s in Island Bay, she\u2019s against it. Unbelievable. So that would be a great focus for Invest New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EThe policy objective\u2014if we look at the non-partisan, non-political statements on this explanatory note\u2014is to lift New Zealand\u2019s investment attractiveness internationally by establishing an investment promotional agency, Invest New Zealand\u2014$88 billion worth of tax; $44 billion worth of debt. It\u2019s a rainbow and unicorn Green plan. Invest New Zealand is our only option. I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022 data-id=\u0022af62865d7d414d6db057a1107a82de45\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af62865d7d414d6db057a1107a82de45\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am very troubled by the use of urgency in the House. Having experienced it as a former member and coming back to the House now, it feels as though the nature of what we\u2019re using urgency for is different and really quite concerning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EI read clause 8 of the bill several times over. It is the clause that creates a new Crown entity, and one of the questions I will be asking the Minister, when we get to the committee stage, is whether a Crown entity has ever been created during urgency, using urgency, before. I know there are a lot of political things that happen in this House, but at times, we need to look to good governance, as well. The Crown Entities Act was set up in 2005, and, really, the intention was that we take care in establishing Crown entities\u2014that we have respect for the independence that they hold in our system and that there is precision in terms of the role that they\u2019re playing in New Zealand. Neither of these two things has happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EIn terms of the appropriateness of the independence, I\u2019ll be speaking shortly about the governance function in this entity and how it\u2019s actually quite markedly different to the one that currently exists in New Zealand Trade and Enterprise (NZTE). I will be asking some questions about the rationale for that and why the same model wasn\u2019t used, why this dramatic new model is being used. Colleagues have spoken about this but, in many ways, we could kind of term what\u2019s happening tonight as a bit of a ghost rationale being given for the creation of a Crown entity. There hasn\u2019t been a rationale that\u2019s been given in the regulatory impact statement (RIS), and colleagues have quoted a part of the RIS, which expressly says that decisions were made to create this entity before the analysis could be completed. It\u2019s very clear in the RIS.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EWe had an announcement from the Prime Minister in January seeding the entity within NZTE and stating that it would become a Crown entity, before an analysis on whether it should become a Crown entity or not, before an analysis on what the function should be. I understand this is a political place. We are also responsible for good governance\u2014and the Government members are talking over that statement. We are also responsible for good governance. On any new bill that they introduce, whether they introduce it in urgency or not, they must first have a problem statement. We do have elements of a problem statement here: that sufficient capital isn\u2019t being directed to the areas that we need it to be. Great; I think we can agree on that as a problem statement. However, the questions that follow, which should be addressed through a robust analysis, are not answered in the RIS.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EThe next question is: is there anything that can be done to address the problem statement that doesn\u2019t require legislation or an $85 million spend? Do we already have a mechanism? Multiple members have spoken about NZTE. If you read the statute that relates to it\u2014Government members are laughing now; go ahead, read the statute\u2014that entity has provisions in the statute that provide for them to do this function. There is an entity. Why wasn\u2019t that option considered? If you go to the RIS, there are four options that are considered in the RIS. The most natural option, one would have thought, is that the current entity that already has statutory powers to do this function would then be given more funding, if it required it, and a more specific mandate to tie the work that needs to be done\u2014getting the capital to precisely the places that we need it to go. That\u2019s a legislative fix. It\u2019s actually quite a small legislative fix of existing legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003ENow, what is thoroughly curious is that that was not one of the four options considered in the RIS. I cannot, for the life of me, understand why that most obvious first option was not considered. The options go from identifying a legitimate problem to setting out three other options\u2014none of which look at the most obvious solution of extra funding and a more targeted mandate\u2014and leap to the creation of a new entity. It is a wild, wild leap.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EI want to look at what a possible reason for the commitment to this new entity is. We know we\u2019ve already got the function under statute. We\u2019ve already got an entity. Why are we spending $85 million? Why are we establishing a new board, getting a new chief executive in, let alone thinking about all the staff who are now going to go through a redundancy process, either to be made redundant or to be absorbed into the new entity? Why? Surely this is a Government about efficiency, right? It\u2019s a Government about efficiency. There is one difference that I could find, looking at the two pieces of legislation side by side. It relates to the governance provisions of the new organisation, compared to the governance provisions of the old organisation. I\u2019ve got three minutes, so I\u2019m going to read them out and explain the difference between the two.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224c050b40e2d41ef919dd95add206d5a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re not allowed to read speeches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fb6c4cfcd8a4a0a992ad65ce72257c4\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not very efficient.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273d4732edd5a4ac8b86fa054c4e895ec\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, if I could have some quiet to be able to do that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4c65ad518d842be8c1dfe39458848cb\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, I wasn\u2019t going to interrupt the member\u2019s speech, but half of the conversations that are going on, on my right, could take place in the lobby, because there\u2019s far too much chatter over there and most of it doesn\u2019t look like business being carried out. Carry on\u2014to the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223eb479a30d4146c39e7ae35f5396794e\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. In the current legislation, the Minister does appoint the board, and they can also appoint special advisers to the board. They can only appoint two people to be those special advisers. That\u2019s the Secretary of Foreign affairs and Trade or the Chief Executive of the Ministry of Economic Development. Now, this is an entirely normal governance function. It\u2019s actually in accordance with section 107 of the Crown Entities Act, and it\u2019s, basically, providing for a cross-governmental approach. It allows chief executives to sit in the room and provide context.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EThis bill is different. This bill, in clause 13, states: \u201C(1) The Minister may appoint the chief executive as a special adviser to the Board. (2) The purpose [being] \u2026 to facilitate the exchange of information between the Minister and the Board on matters of Government policy relevant to the Board in performing its functions and exercising its powers under the Act.\u201D I will be asking more questions about this during the committee stage, but, for now\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022963bab14ded04d2eb6171053e117863f\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Can\u2019t wait!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de3df390a6334739adc60af33d533a36\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t threaten us like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6c9f65e944a4ba0b9210314ec7837cb\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll wait for you to be quiet if you need to. I think people need to hear this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ce9b1464a7f4f02927760f6d48742ec\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: When people listen, they learn. If they choose not to listen, the speaker can carry on speaking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e521e1fba4141a3b9121ccb29a2c562\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS\u003C/span\u003E: There are two unusual features of this. First, it appears to be making the chief executive of that organisation a ministerial conduit in the room. That\u2019s an entirely inappropriate role for a chief executive to have in relation to a Minister. It\u2019s also inappropriate in terms of the relationship between the chief executive themselves and the board. You\u2019ll all remember that it is the board who appoint the chief executive, so it puts them in a very odd situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EEverybody\u2019s focus should be on why this governance arrangement has changed between the two Acts, and I will be asking more questions about that, and others. I do not support this bill. I think it\u2019s extremely irresponsible, and I would like the Government to remember that\u2014politics and urgency aside\u2014you have a governance responsibility to New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022 data-id=\u002249ab741a567247d689ed42fecd6628d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249ab741a567247d689ed42fecd6628d9\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Now it\u2019s time for the adults to come in the room. As New Zealand goes overseas and has adult conversations with commercial constructs, Invest New Zealand is the vehicle which is going to enable that. New Zealand\u2019s growing up. New Zealand\u2019s open for business. Go the Chiefs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022 data-id=\u0022f594782f0f7a48a28ba506047b080582\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f594782f0f7a48a28ba506047b080582\u0022\u003EREUBEN DAVIDSON (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s good to have the opportunity to stand and continue to speak for a little longer than some of the members on the other side of the House have taken the opportunity to, because this is a very important issue and a bill that definitely deserves some proper and thorough examination here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003ENow, we\u2019ve heard, in a number of ways and from different people, some assessment around the policy objectives of this bill, which is \u201Cto lift New Zealand\u2019s investment attractiveness internationally by establishing an investment promotional agency, Invest New Zealand,\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c39f9b2d2ec48919081cbc0d25acc7e\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: Good reading!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225de3d8cbf031401e8655890e3ae2db90\u0022\u003EREUBEN DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014\u201Cwhich will facilitate and enable increased overseas investment into New Zealand.\u201D Now, someone called out and said, \u201CHe\u2019s reading that.\u201D Yes, you can do that, even if you\u2019re not taking the opportunity to do so yourself, sir.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003EThe thing that a number of people have pointed out is that this is actually the same as creating a real estate agency to sell New Zealand. That\u2019s what it is. My questions are: who\u2019s the agent and who\u2019s getting the commission? I\u2019ve seen some suggestions here. So I\u2019m looking and I\u2019m thinking: who\u2019s a strong leader in the National Party that could be doing that? Maybe the Hon Erica Stanford. People can get in touch on assettsforsale@gmail.com, because she\u2019d be very accessible via that. Perhaps, you lean on a coalition partner and see if the Hon David Seymour would be available to drive a good deal\u2014almost as well as he tried to drive that Range Rover up the steps of Parliament. But the problem is he\u2019s good at negotiating with a weak leader, but he won\u2019t be good at negotiating with much bigger countries, which is what this is about. So maybe it will all fall on the Hon Casey Costello from New Zealand First. But, as we\u2019ve seen, the deals that she does go up in smoke, so that\u2019s not going to be good for the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003EThe reality with the Invest New Zealand Bill is that you are being reckless with the future [Interruption]\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e5f253ad90c467a9f27a214adac1686\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Quiet!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e5823d07d504d22b7b24bbe0be236ec\u0022\u003EREUBEN DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and the reality is it\u2019s not yours to be reckless with, because investment needs to be ethical and investment needs to be responsible, not \u201Cpermissible\u201D. That\u2019s what you\u2019re doing: you\u2019re creating super-permissible investment that is not well governed. One Minister; a board of as few as three. That\u2019s not good governance. That is not democracy. That is chumocracy, and that is what this bill is setting up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003EIf you were real estate agents, you\u2019d be flippers, because all you\u2019re doing is making quick deals. You\u2019re saying, \u201CJust trust us\u2014just trust us\u201D, and people look and they say, \u201CLike we did with the cancer drugs? I don\u2019t think so. Like we did with the surprise tax cuts for big tobacco? I don\u2019t think so. Like we did with the pay equity settlements that you cancelled with no notice, in less than 24 hours?\u201D There were more people standing on the lawn protesting your Budget than there were listening in the lock-up to try and find out the details.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003EYou are merely becoming flippers in a real estate industry, and, at the same time\u2014at the same time\u2014you are taking money from our science, innovation, and technology sector and putting it into starting up a new entity that is already provisioned for within New Zealand Trade and Enterprise. You are setting up a new entity that is not needed\u2014your own regulatory impact statement (RIS) says that. Even if you only read the bits of this RIS that are pro your idea, it would take you a matter of seconds; there\u2019s so little in there to support it. The reality is that our science, innovation, and technology sector creates jobs. It creates IP\u2014that\u2019s intellectual property. I don\u2019t know if you know that on that side of the House, but that\u2019s what it creates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003EIt also creates pride. New Zealand has a very, very long, proud history of great self-funded science, innovation, and technology, and you have pulled the capital out of that and pushed it into the establishment of an agency that sells that off. When they pay, they own, and it\u2019s gone. All those ideas, all that talent, everything that you get invested into, you have, effectively, sold. As real estate agents, you\u2019ve flipped the house; it\u2019s not yours anymore; it\u2019s gone. You ultimately end up becoming sell-outs. You are being reckless with the future, and it is not yours to be reckless with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022096c4b29e7ce43a7a9409fc85b306dcc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022096c4b29e7ce43a7a9409fc85b306dcc\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealanders, remember this: this Government wants New Zealand to grow, grow, grow. The Opposition over there\u2014Labour, Green, and Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014you are here to stop New Zealand to grow. I commend this bill to the House. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00228a7d8dfbfd354f1996b3424f51e3e2e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a7d8dfbfd354f1996b3424f51e3e2e5\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me, I\u2019m going to be sending a couple of people out soon if that barrage doesn\u2019t stop. If you want to make intelligent interjections, that is fine. But no one can hear a word any of you are saying, because you\u2019re all just yelling it at the same time and it\u2019s not good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00229d7534f73aac49509d538ee79b1db7b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d7534f73aac49509d538ee79b1db7b4\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you. My colleague Vanushi Walters asked the critical question here: what problem is this bill trying to solve? Now, it\u2019s a critical question right from the start. What problem is it trying to solve? Sitting in the regulatory impact statement, we have some of the analysis that\u2019s going on as to what problem the bill is trying to solve, and in paragraph 1 of section 1, it says that the problem\u2014the first problem: \u201CThe Prime Minister has highlighted economic growth as the core priority for the Government.\u201D So one of the Prime Minister\u2019s priorities\u2014and, of course, it does seem to be something we indeed need to focus on\u2014but in the second paragraph comes the nub of it, that this bill might be oriented towards: \u201CThe most important driver of economic growth is productivity.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019re casing this as a productivity problem. That\u2019s what this regulatory impact statement says. In fact, then, the analysis prepared by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment draws on an economic analysis by Treasury, and says that \u201CIn a recent analysis by the Treasury, several possible causes for our low productivity were identified, including education and skills, employment composition, capital, innovation and technology, business dynamism, globalisation and trade, sectoral composition, and measurement.\u201D It says, \u201CWhile the report ultimately concluded that there is no singular cause for this issue\u201D\u2014for low productivity\u2014\u201Cpoor access to capital was identified as a major issue.\u201D Well, that\u2019s interesting, because there was a whole lot of issues identified there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo I went and got the actual analysis from Treasury. It\u2019s a May 2024 paper, The productivity slowdown, and it really does canvass the particular issues as to why productivity has slowed down in New Zealand. It does indeed list all those issues in terms of what might slow down productivity, and one of them is indeed capital, but it\u2019s only one. Access to capital is one problem that might be causing our problems with productivity. In fact, that\u2019s backed by the Productivity Commission, who say that we do need to have certain concerns around access to capital. But if we are looking for the biggest driver in terms of productivity, it\u2019s not access to capital; it\u2019s innovation. That is what Treasury says\u2014it says, on page 20 of their report, \u201CInnovation is perhaps the most fundamental determinant of productivity.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWhat do we need for increased innovation? We need solid, secure education at primary and secondary levels, and especially at tertiary levels. We need a tertiary education system that ensures that everyone has a trade, a diploma, or a degree. Yet that Government is in the midst of destroying one of our tertiary institutions, in particular the tertiary institution that most students go to, that most students go to for a trade or a diploma.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWhat else do we need for innovation? Well, we need a thriving research and science sector. What is that Government doing? It is taking apart our science sector. In fact, notably, a heap of the funding that is coming into this new entity that the Government is setting up is coming from Callaghan Innovation research. It is money that is being reprioritised\u2014reprioritised\u2014out of our research and science sector and put into this new entity. That\u2019s where it\u2019s coming from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo two of the things that we know drive productivity are being decimated by this Government, and what is an alternative? What are they offering us? A new Crown agency which replicates work that is already being done within New Zealand Trade and Enterprise (NZTE), and for which they cannot identify the success factors. Well, actually, that\u2019s not quite the case. The purpose of this entity is going to be to drive more foreign direct investment, and its success is going to be measured by having more foreign direct investment. Well, that\u2019s kind of just\u2014that\u2019s OK, but what is not clear is the link between foreign direct investment and the drivers of productivity. That link has not been made, and we would need to see that link being made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, this is exactly the sort of issue that we could\u2019ve dug into in a select committee process to see whether setting up this particular type of Crown entity would, in fact, drive the productivity that is needed. Let\u2019s remember: access to capital is only one of the factors that drive productivity. We could\u2019ve been able to weigh them all up against each other, but because we didn\u2019t have the select committee process, we weren\u2019t able to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, there is a whole lot of objectives, then, that are set for this policy. One is that there\u2019s greater investment into innovative activities. One is greater research and development, investment, and innovative activity in New Zealand. One is more skilled professionals in New Zealand. But how exactly is more foreign direct investment going to drive all those? The link needs to be made clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EBut then we come to the assessment, the analysis of how the options proposed in this regulatory impact statement\u2014the Minister\u2019s preferred option compared to the status quo, and so on. They are all assessed, as is the usual way, with a spreadsheet with plus signs in green and minus signs in red. The curious thing is the way that these are allocated in this particular document. So, for example, in terms of getting an increase in foreign direct investment, option two: reprioritisation within NZTE would\u2019ve been just as good as enhanced option three, which would\u2019ve been removing some of the regulatory barriers, which would\u2019ve been just as good as option four, the dedicated agency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EBut this one is the one that, just, I find gobsmacking: one of the ways that the options are assessed is by looking at the Government mandate. Well, of course the option preferred by the Minister has the Government mandate. That\u2019s just circular. Of course it does. And of course the status quo doesn\u2019t have the Government mandate, because they do want to change this. That is just a nonsensical assessment, and it\u2019s the only one that\u2019s got two little green plus signs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EBut then\u2014and this is the one that really astonishes me\u2014increased cost to Government. In terms of assessing whether or not a policy is positive, with that positive green sign, well, of course, focusing on general business settings, well, that could have costs involved in that. But then it gives a positive green sign and says the establishment of a new Government agency can have significant costs. Now, blow me down\u2014I would\u2019ve thought that was a minus for a policy, but here it\u2019s assessed as a positive. I\u2019m just a little bit blown away by that. So it\u2019s really hard to assess what is going on. There is no clear lead from this paper. There is no clear evidence that says that this solution is a good solution. Frankly, the analysis here, to me, feels skewed, and it is not strong enough to rest the formation of a new agency on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EFinally, I do just want to think about the types of investment that might be facilitated by this new Government agency. We\u2019ve seen in this Budget an absolutely shocking commitment\u2014a shocking commitment\u2014to fossil fuel industries. A shocking commitment\u2014you know, $200 million allocated to them. And then an absolute shocker with the new partial expensing, with two clauses specifically there in the legislation saying that petroleum and coal mining can get this extra subsidy from the Government to get going. At the same time, we know that offshore wind in South Taranaki, which would have brought investment into the country that would have been good for the climate, has been driven off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThis Government has shown its priorities already for the sort of investment it likes, and it is the sort of investment that leads to more global warming, that puts this country at risk. I think this is an absolutely shoddy policy, and we should not support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u0022c708e7fa3108469eb998abf465b97000\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c708e7fa3108469eb998abf465b97000\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E Foreign direct investment equals growth. Ireland gets it, and we on this side of the House get it. Invest New Zealand is going to match foreign investors with great opportunities in the Hutt Valley, in Bay of Plenty, in Selwyn\u2014in great areas\u2014in Hobson, Southland, Northcote, and that is why I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222424caef42554de9ac07e7affa97c500\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Invest New Zealand Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001278\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00220ed9dad38bed4a81a39b47506ac10a5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ed9dad38bed4a81a39b47506ac10a5d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is set down for committee stage, presently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002247c2706d487d430c83a72fa77369e7fb\u0022\u003EPublic Finance Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022faf1b4a3850142d8b6715365a8dbe738\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0c6e507f78d427fbe3d55a04ab392bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0c6e507f78d427fbe3d55a04ab392bf\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Associate Minister of Finance)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Finance: I present a legislative statement on the Public Finance Amendment Bill to the House. I move that the Public Finance Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200c3c29f35f54a18bd1073b392a73f66\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there a legislative statement or not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6cabdd31b1942108940ab947b9e8050\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I said, \u201CI present a legislative statement\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3a6a5ff8346407387499c42452bad36\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sorry. OK. That legislative statement is published\u2014[Interruption] Could we have a bit of quiet so we can hear ourselves. That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe4f69129e0546b4a3c6c20dbff3b305\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Public Finance Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Finance and Expenditure Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThis is an important bill and it\u2019s a little bit disappointing that it\u2019s being dealt with at 10.29 p.m. on Thursday night\u2014well, Saturday night, but of course it\u2019s still Thursday in Parliament\u2019s time\u2014because the Public Finance Act has served New Zealand well for over 30 years. Our public finance system is highly regarded by overseas jurisdictions. So I want to be really clear that we are not proposing wholesale changes to the Act, but we\u2019re introducing targeted amendments to strengthen fiscal transparency, remove unnecessary requirements, and improve how the Act works in practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn particular, we do want to signal we are going to be paying close attention to the recommendations of the parliamentary inquiry on performance reporting, which the Finance and Expenditure Committee is conducting, chaired by the very able Cameron Brewer. The inquiry is expected to report in the middle of next year and will address longstanding concerns about how the results of spending are reported. The Auditor-General, as members will know, has pointed out, particularly this current Auditor-General or the retiring Auditor-General, that it\u2019s not always clear to parliamentarians when spending is appropriated through the system by this Parliament, whether it actually results in positive outcomes for taxpayers and New Zealanders. That was particularly the case in the six years of fiscal profligacy of the last, failed regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EOne change we are proposing to make is around fiscal risks. Members will recall that when this Government came to office in late 2023, preparing for the \u201Cmini-Budget\u201D, as it was then called, it was not at all clear that the outgoing Government had adequately presented fiscal risks to the new Government. The statements were opaque and did not always lead to good public understanding. There have been operational improvements by the Treasury since then, including explicitly identifying time-limited funding and capital cost escalations. The bill makes these categorisations a requirement, so there are sensible changes there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe last Government pretended that they were the first Government in human history to care about wellbeing. Of course, it is the Government\u2019s first responsibility to look after the wellbeing of New Zealanders. Grant Robertson had this facile and fanciful view of the world that he was the first person in human history to come up with the idea that Government should look after their citizens, and, therefore, this fatuous insight required the insertion into law, the requirement for wellbeing Budgets. And members will recall glossy documents\u2014taken by Grant Robertson himself\u2014of mountains, and of social and human capital. There were lots of words and glossy pictures, and we had wellbeing into the Public Finance Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cb5ca2e13ba4299a0f2ce2105902dfc\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: Talk about the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228493d6f40bb54e398fa491d303dea4df\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: And Government was\u2014well, I am talking about the bill; we\u2019re getting rid of these requirements. That\u2019s the whole point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe Act was amended to make the Government articulate the wellbeing objectives that would guide the Government\u2019s Budget decisions. Of course, building a stronger economy and delivering public services are the most important contributions the Government can make to socioeconomic, environmental, and cultural outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ENow, if a Government wants to dream up any old thing and call it wellbeing, then they\u2019re well-entitled to do that. But we should not pretend that the nebulous notion of \u201Cwellbeing\u201D, inserted into law, makes everything better, and nor does it actually lead to Governments making good decisions. I\u2019ll tell you what isn\u2019t wellbeing: 120 billion bucks of extra debt, a ginormous increase in Government spending\u2014that is not wellbeing. Inflation of 7.3 percent is not wellbeing. Rents going up by $170 a week on average is not wellbeing. And here\u2019s the kicker\u2014a particularly not-wellbeing thing would be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ea745b8bd974dfeba8ea83412951482\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Is living in a car.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247062a2b5de7419c95799bc961ccc3b9\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: \u20144,000\u2014oh, ho, ho, ho! \u201CLiving in a car\u201D, she says. Well, I\u2019ve got the numbers. Guess how many children ended up living in cars between 2018 and 2023? There was a four-fold increase. Jacinda Ardern spent the 2017 election campaign talking about how no child should live in a car, and the numbers went up by 400 percent. So, actually, the squawking member over there, who pretends to care about the poor, knows that Labour\u2019s approach was a failure, and simply harping on about wellbeing does not actually lead to better outcomes. What matters is good fiscal policy. Most importantly, what matters is good public policy, and that\u2019s what this Government is focused on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThere was a requirement in the Public Finance Act, which we are soon to amend, which required the Treasury to produce a report on the state of wellbeing. It had to happen at least every four years. There was a report in 2022, and the Treasury opined on subjects such as work, care and volunteering, cultural capability and belonging\u2014this is my favourite one\u2014engagement and voice, leisure and play, and family and friends. All of these things are important things\u2014all of these things are important things. But I think Treasury should be focused, and that the bright and talented people at Treasury should focus on economic and financial advice rather than preparing reports on whether or not people have friends and whether their life has meaning and purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ENow, that would be an interesting study\u2014into the Opposition, who don\u2019t have many friends. Actually, sometimes, they probably sit there at 10.34 at night in urgency and wonder whether or not their life does have any meaning and purpose, particularly when it comes to the things they are saying at the moment about the Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIf the Government in the future wants to produce a wellbeing report, of course it is free to do so, but it should not be a legal requirement in the Public Finance Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThere was this ridiculous situation where Grant Robertson used to say, \u201COh, look, there\u2019s a very high bar for new spending in this Budget. We\u2019ve had to put everything through the wellbeing analysis.\u201D It turned out that doing a wellbeing analysis just literally meant the Government would fund whatever Grant Robertson thought they should fund. I actually think what they used to do in the Labour Party was sit around and put up every fanciful, fantasy idea they could possibly do, put them all on the side of their caucus room, and then fire darts at the at the massive board and whatever it just got included in the Budget. How else could you explain Grant Robertson never once sticking to his operating allowance? He used to turn up here and say, \u201CThings are very tight this year. My new operating allowance is $3.2 billion and I will definitely not exceed it.\u201D That\u2019s what he used to say at the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update\u2014HYEFU\u2014every December and everyone would go, \u201COh, OK, yeah, fair enough. That\u2019ll be interesting to see what happens.\u201D And every year in May, in Budget, he\u2019d say, \u201CWell, look, we\u2019ve just had to push out the operating allowance.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EBut the nadir of all of this was Budget 2022, which was the worst Budget in New Zealand history, in which Grant Robertson said he would stick to\u2014from memory\u2014$4.2 billion. By way of context, the operating allowance in this Budget is $1.3 billion, so it was already at least three times larger than this year\u2019s Budget. And he smashed it and ended up with a $6 billion operating allowance. This was the cost of living payment Budget\u2014remember this?\u2014when Grant Robertson turned up and said, \u201CI\u2019ve got a great idea for the cost of living\u2014not fiscal discipline and restraining the growth of Government spending and being a friend to monetary policy. No, no, I\u2019ve got a really good idea. We\u2019re going to give everyone a free thousand dollars in New Zealand.\u201D\u2014including French backpackers who worked here 10 years ago on the vineyards down South, dead people, and investment bankers in London who got a thousand bucks in their New Zealand bank accounts, who used to email me and say, \u201CThat\u2019s my Friday night drinks fund. Thanks very much, Grant Robertson.\u201D That was the height of fiscal largesse and stupidity. Rather than actually running sound fiscal and monetary policy and being a friend to monetary policy, he decided to give everyone free money. Of course, all the chickens eventually came home to roost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EBut in relation to the allowances, that was the Budget when Grant Robertson decided they were outside the allowance\u2014the free thousand bucks he gave everybody wasn\u2019t counted as part of the operating allowance. So, actually, what is required for true wellbeing is actually good economic wisdom, and that\u2019s what this Government is going is going to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo these amendments are important. This ended up being a slightly more political speech than I thought it was going to be, but I remembered that we made a decision to get rid of these wellbeing things and it reminded me about just what a stupid idea it was in the first place. I mean, there were endless sort of The Economist articles about what a world-leading insight this was, that we were going to enshrine in law wellbeing as the centrepiece of fiscal policy for the first time in human history\u2014as if Grant Robertson, of all people, had this insight that no one had ever had before: that Government should look after their people. Thankfully, these days of fantastical, illogical wisdom have been consigned to the dustbin of history. Let\u2019s make sure these useless people on the other side never get back to do it ever again. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e878bf03ad2845a5bbfdc2811860596e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e878bf03ad2845a5bbfdc2811860596e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s enough. The question is that motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00223f530d7b1e094ca9929f90562ca84b05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f530d7b1e094ca9929f90562ca84b05\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E What an extraordinary speech from this backwards-looking and backwards-thinking Government. It\u2019s really interesting looking at what this bill does, because I would say that at least two of the items in it are about saving Nicola Willis from her own folly, and the third one is about escaping Government responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s start on saving Nicola Willis from her folly. As we all know, when that Government took office, it turned out that Nicola Willis hadn\u2019t bothered to read the previous Government\u2019s Budgets, hadn\u2019t bothered to pay attention to Labour\u2019s election Budget, didn\u2019t worry about understanding what was going on, and it became \u201COh, no. Oh, no. I have to pay for something I didn\u2019t think I had to pay for.\u201D That\u2019s the fiscal risk. They spent a lot of time talking about fiscal cliffs. All they were were things that Nicola Willis didn\u2019t bother to look at, so she didn\u2019t take them into account. So at least part of this bill is just about saving face for Nicola Willis. That\u2019s the first thing that is wrong with this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s another little wrinkle in this bill which is terribly interesting, and it\u2019s also about saving Nicola Willis. It\u2019s the bit about enabling the use of variable measures\u2014sorry, it\u2019s enabling the Government to express its fiscal strategy using alternative fiscal variables, like operating balance before gains and losses (OBEGAL) versus OBEGALx\u2014the new fiscal measure that made its appearance just this year in order to enable that Government to claim that it was meeting its objective of getting rid of the deficit. The only way it could be done was by having a new and fanciful fiscal variable that no one had ever used before, so much so that Treasury wouldn\u2019t agree to it being called by a proper name and it had to be called OBEGALx. So two things there that are all about saving someone\u2019s face.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EAnd the third thing: changing the rules around wellbeing budgeting. Now, we had a good stand-up comedy routine over there\u2014great stand-up comedy. Chris Bishop is good at that. What we didn\u2019t have is a sensible analysis of that thinking behind the Wellbeing Budget. We all know that Government sets fiscal policy, but fiscal policy has an impact on people\u2019s lives. We need to measure not just where money goes in and money goes out\u2014what gets spent on particular programmes and what doesn\u2019t\u2014but we actually need to try to understand how it affects people\u2019s lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThis is something that has been worked towards by eminent economists such as Amartya Sen, trying increasingly hard to work out how we best enable people to live good lives. We\u2019ve had a longstanding understanding now that measures such as growth and GDP do not capture the richness of people\u2019s lives. That is what one of the most eminent economists produced by this country has shown us, Professor Marilyn Waring\u2014a former National Party member\u2014that we need to have a much wider understanding and a much wider measuring of what life is like for people beyond the mere dollars and cents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why we introduced wellbeing budgeting. It was to try to enable Government to do much, much better than just looking at the sterile numbers of GDP\u2014just looking at the dollars in and dollars out. It was trying genuinely to engage with the lives that New Zealanders live and making it a key part of Government\u2019s plan each year. That\u2019s all a Budget is: it is the Government\u2019s plan, obviously expressed in terms of money and all those sorts of things, but also expressed in terms of what the Government is trying to achieve. So we were to report on it, and this shoddy piece of legislation gets rid of it. We oppose this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3a7d1e7cbc247388ce220fa1aff13d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3a7d1e7cbc247388ce220fa1aff13d2\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. I actually think that when the Hon Chris Bishop gets all self-righteous and angry and talks about how terrible the last Government was, it\u2019s a little bit because he\u2019s probably a bit embarrassed about that previous bill that we were debating and the fact that they\u2019ve set up yet another agency, Invest New Zealand, which could absolutely be a Utopia episode.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ELook, in fact, the Greens\u2019 interest in the Public Finance Act and improving that goes back many, many years. I mean, I think Jeanette Fitzsimons was talking about it. My colleague Dr Kennedy Graham had a member\u2019s bill; the Public Finance (Sustainable Development Indicators) Amendment Bill was a member\u2019s bill that would have brought in some very precise indicators that should have been inserted into the Public Finance Act. That would have been really excellent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EUltimately, I think what was trying to be achieved by the Wellbeing Budget was trying to get at that idea that we can have better information and better understanding about how Government investment and support for people flows through and is effective or is not effective. I think everybody realises that, for decades, the traditional method of looking at it hasn\u2019t enabled us to make the investments that we need to make, and it certainly isn\u2019t recognising the enormous costs and risks of carrying on with the status quo. A perfect example of that is the idea of just going for growth\u2014growth in anything. If growth is growth in fossil fuel extraction and use, that\u2019s not a productivity gain, that\u2019s not helping us live a better life; it\u2019s actually putting us at risk of more climate change, which is really bad for us. It\u2019s more storms, it\u2019s more death, it\u2019s more famines, it\u2019s more floods, it\u2019s more fires. And we know that\u2019s already happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EBut it\u2019s like\u2014you\u2019ve got to join the dots. If we have an earthquake in Christchurch, GDP will go up. It\u2019s not that we\u2019re better off from the earthquake, it\u2019s just that there\u2019s more activity as a result of the earthquake, and that\u2019s all that\u2019s being measured. I think we are actually having an inquiry at the Finance and Expenditure Committee about getting better measures and reporting from Government departments on the value of the things that they\u2019re doing, and I think that is really useful and constructive. But I think the debate in the House under urgency about a bill like this isn\u2019t very illuminating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWe should all care about having more effective measures of what it is we\u2019re doing and more effective ways of keeping track of how Government investments are not supporting people. I was really hopeful when I first came to this House that that might be something we\u2019d be doing by now. But instead we have this highly politicised approach, which is one Government does something, the next one comes in and says, \u201COh, wasn\u2019t that a big disaster?\u201D, and doesn\u2019t actually take a nuanced look at what was good and where things went wrong but just comes out, points blame, and frivolously and shallowly repeals things and then makes a bunch of announcements. It\u2019s just like\u2014it must be so tiring and boring for New Zealanders at home, and I don\u2019t blame people for losing faith in the political system when all you hear is politicians on one side talking about how the other side are idiots and vice versa. Like, actually, we have some problems in common and we should be trying to work on them together. I think the Government\u2019s reaction to the Green Budget is a pretty good example of not taking a constructive approach. They\u2019re terrified. The Prime Minister spent most of his Budget speech talking about our Green Budget rather than looking at the merits of what we are proposing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo the particular proposals in this bill I don\u2019t think are particularly useful. We actually are open to the more flexible fiscal variables, but we need further time to investigate that properly. So if we have time, and I\u2019m actually not sure if we\u2019re doing the second reading straight after this or whether this is going to select committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cde6ab6d09e34a42ac3068a686d288ea\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c805a4c8c884368940430492a50d749\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: If it is going to select committee, then that will be useful. But, initially, we oppose it because of the removal of the wellbeing requirements\u2014but are open to looking at it further in select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022 data-id=\u00221e76c657f9b14ddba6d07efcad23d419\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e76c657f9b14ddba6d07efcad23d419\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of ACT to speak in support of the Public Finance Amendment Bill. In ACT, we\u2019re actually very excited to be supporting this because, obviously, people will know that the Public Finance Act 1989 was introduced by no other than ACT founder, Sir Roger Douglas. What he actually wanted to do was make sure that we had a set of transparent accounts and ways of looking at Government that people could understand. We are very excited to be supporting this, which is going to ensure that we continue to have that transparency, reporting, and ensuring the Government accounts are actually fit for purpose. I commend this to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee5698ddbe004ba3ac5c288ac8a0674f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee5698ddbe004ba3ac5c288ac8a0674f\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to support the Public Finance Amendment Bill. We support better Government transparency, improving fiscal strategies, disclosures, and forecasting. Also, the time frames around the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update and Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update reports. But, bye-bye to the wellbeing objectives. This side of the House, we are interested in real outcomes. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u00228356c8f94e864752845b076bcc286918\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228356c8f94e864752845b076bcc286918\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. The opening statements from the Associate Minister of Finance referred to wellbeing and belonging, and one of the key factors that came out of a young person\u2019s survey in the suicide prevention space was the key element of what was missing was they did not belong. So I find it interesting, in the context of wellbeing and those things potentially being removed out of this bill, and it saddens us deeply, so I\u2019m going to help him out here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori wellbeing is made up of a bunch of things. It\u2019s made up of optimal health, and optimal health, in a M\u0101ori context, is to live longer, which is always a good thing; and to live in a context and a reality that suits the ways which make sense culturally and customarily, and ideally on our own whenua. So that\u2019s optimal health. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori-owned businesses\u2014we like those. Over COVID, the number of M\u0101ori women\u2019s businesses that started just in their garage flourished in Te Tai Tokerau. It was a good thing. So wellbeing and trying to take care of it when COVID was going on\u2014we did really well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EPapa k\u0101inga lifestyle\u2014that\u2019s a M\u0101ori wellbeing predictor, OK? So it\u2019s good to take note of in this discussion, Minister. The re-establishing of marae and all the things that surround the marae\u2014that\u2019s M\u0101ori wellbeing. It\u2019s a bunch of stuff. It\u2019s the flourishing M\u0101ori communities wherever you live, even in our urban M\u0101ori settings. Take your marae with you. Take your awa with you. Flourish and grow as M\u0101ori. Speaking te reo M\u0101ori everywhere and anywhere every day, just like our Kiingi said\u2014being M\u0101ori every day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThese are the things that make a strong, vibrant, young M\u0101ori community and all the individuals that exist within it. Creating our own local, our own national, and our own international offshore relationships\u2014a whole bunch out of the Iwi Leaders Forum have already organised their own trips. They\u2019ve been organising this for quite some time, and, in fact, over the years, creating relationships and businesses with indigenous and non-indigenous across the world. So these are some of the things that I hope are understood when we\u2019re describing M\u0101ori wellbeing when this public finance piece of work is being done. Because if it\u2019s not acknowledged and it\u2019s not considered in the thinking and in the design, then of course this Government will fail us yet again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ESadly, the failing has already showed up in a number of bills that have been rammed through, not only last night and tonight but in the last little while. Of course, one of them which failed miserably\u2014thank goodness, and we\u2019re going to make the next one fail\u2014is the Treaty principles bill. So thank goodness, because that\u2019s when most of this House made some sense and voted it down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EBut that in itself\u2014what that says to many M\u0101ori is, \u201CGee, can they really be trusted?\u201D Well, no. It takes an extreme set of circumstances for that to actually rise to the top when people think, \u201CGee, 100,000 people marching. Oh, that was saying something.\u201D So it\u2019s important for this public finance piece of work and discussion to understand that if wellbeing is a thing and you get that, do not bunch all M\u0101ori into this wellbeing as if we\u2019re non-M\u0101ori. Don\u2019t do that. That\u2019s a dumb thing. Please don\u2019t do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ESo if you don\u2019t want to do that, you need to talk to some M\u0101ori. Just the fact that you\u2019re rubbing shoulders next to one doesn\u2019t give you the full analysis and understanding of what it takes to really know whether this bill and any other is going to work for us. Don\u2019t do this work. Don\u2019t build and design something without us. That has gone on for 180 years\u2014so my time is really running out; dang it. But anyway, that\u2019s what I want to say and I really want to offer the Minister that assistance and these words and these concepts so it\u2019s understood fairly and genuinely. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4553049f00942048a2d045322f340f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4553049f00942048a2d045322f340f1\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E The Finance and Expenditure Committee is looking forward to opening submissions on this and running a full process as we look at the first tranche of the Public Finance Act legislation amendments. The second tranche will of course be our performance reporting inquiry and any consequences and subsequences that come out of that. So we look forward to submissions and dialogue. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8cc9cb432094d6f99bffb4a797bf0a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8cc9cb432094d6f99bffb4a797bf0a1\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E So here we are. Budget week, 11\u00A0o\u2019clock on a Saturday night, and we\u2019re talking about amendments to the Public Finance Act. What is the Budget? The Budget is the Government\u2019s plan for the country over the next three years and beyond. What this bill, the Public Finance Amendment Bill, does is it rips out from the heart of the Budget process one of those key things, and that\u2019s the wellbeing objective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow, I sat in this Parliament when Grant Robertson introduced the first Wellbeing Budget. Chris Bishop may scoff, but it was the first Budget in New Zealand that put at the centre of the Government\u2019s plan the wellbeing of New Zealanders. GDP is all very nice. Growth is good in so far as it enhances the wellbeing of New Zealanders. But measuring GDP alone is not enough. After the Christchurch earthquakes, after a huge catastrophe, GDP skyrocketed as we fixed up broken buildings, but we weren\u2019t better off. We were making ourselves better off, but the harm that had occurred\u2014we weren\u2019t better than we were before 2011. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo here we have it. This bill takes out the wellbeing objectives from our budgeting process. So we\u2019re all very happy to measure how much more money we\u2019re making or how much more so-called productivity we\u2019re having. If we sell more cigarettes on this measure, we\u2019re more productive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022104e13727c794a999d6c822fae345d70\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Bonkers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242c9c70586a5411daa83e7fb9f5545be\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s crazy. If we sell more arms, we\u2019re more productive. What does it do? How does it measure those things that really matter? That\u2019s what the Wellbeing Budget did. The wellbeing objective is about measuring things that really matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EHow do we measure the health of our children? How do we measure the strength of our intellectual debate? How do we measure social cohesion, the strength of our communities? How do we measure the relationships between P\u0101keh\u0101 and M\u0101ori? Well, those things this Government is not interested in measuring. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut it was a challenge and it is a challenge and it remains a challenge to ask, how are we doing? Not what\u2019s the bottom line of the balance sheet, but how are we doing as a country? What is the health of our nation? How are our least well off being treated? What is the access to our healthcare for the most vulnerable New Zealanders\u2014those in our remote communities, those in our poor communities? We can measure GDP in our Budget and it can look like we\u2019re doing OK, but if only 10 percent or 2 percent or 1 percent are doing OK, I don\u2019t think we\u2019re doing OK; I think we\u2019re doing really poorly. That\u2019s not the wellbeing I want to be a part of, and that Government doesn\u2019t want to measure how we are really doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f00cd7a5f66241a48ff6a805a0e8508d\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: They don\u2019t care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cae7a0feb8a841b182caadff53e09ad5\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: They don\u2019t care. They want to turn a blind eye to the true wellbeing of the nation because they want growth for some, but they\u2019re leaving many of us behind. What the Public Finance Act as it stands says is \u201CWe want to know how everybody is doing.\u201D\u2014not just some. We don\u2019t want the blunt measure of GDP; we want a measure of wellbeing which crosses the arc of all of what\u2019s going on in New Zealand, and that Government\u2019s not interested, because it just wants to look after its friends. It\u2019s a Government of cronyism. It\u2019s a Government of elitism. What we want is to look after all of New Zealand. That\u2019s why this Public Finance Amendment Bill is shameful and that\u2019s why we will oppose it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022 data-id=\u00226f879598f3414aecace0b499a0c89211\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f879598f3414aecace0b499a0c89211\u0022\u003EMILES ANDERSON (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E This bill, just like this tie, is outstanding, and I commend both of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3470e896c6d422f94247221039de696\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3470e896c6d422f94247221039de696\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. Me t\u012Bmata taku k\u014Drero p\u0113nei: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EKo t\u0113nei ture he ture hei whakatikatika i ng\u0101 hapa, i ng\u0101 h\u0113, o te Minita P\u016Btea, n\u0101 te mea, k\u0101hore e taea e ia te kaute. Ko t\u0101ku ki a ia, hoki ki t\u014D karaehe, tahi h\u0101ora ia r\u0101, ako i te P\u0101ngarau kia tika t\u014D kaute i t\u014D p\u016Btea. Moumou t\u0101ima te tari mai i t\u0113nei pepa ki roto i te Whare nei ki te whakatikatika i te koretake o te Minita Tahua P\u016Btea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003ETuarua: Tino p\u014Duri ahau, te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, t\u0113nei K\u0101wanatanga e whakakore ana i ng\u0101 kaupapa oranga i roto i te Ture, Ng\u0101 Wh\u0101inga Oranga i roto i te Tahua P\u016Btea. K\u0101tahi an\u014D ka t\u012Bmata t\u0113r\u0101 i te tau 2019, in\u0101ianei e whakakore ana r\u0101tou i \u0113r\u0101 wh\u0101inga oranga i roto i te Ture\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EHe aha ai? N\u0101 te mea, k\u0101hore r\u0101tou e whai whakaaro ana ki te pani, ki te rawakore, ki ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata noho motok\u0101, ehara i te noho whare, noho motok\u0101, whare kore. K\u0101hore r\u0101tou e whai whakaaro ana ki te oranga o te tangata, e whakakore i Te Aka Whaiora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EK\u0101hore r\u0101tou e whai whakaaro ana ki te taiao, ki te oranga o te taiao, ki te oranga o te whenua, ki te oranga o te tangata, ki te oranga o Aotearoa, n\u014D! E whai whakaaro ana r\u0101tou ki te whakawhanaketanga i \u014D r\u0101tou hoa, p\u0113r\u0101 i ng\u0101 kamupene t\u016Bpeka; p\u0113r\u0101 i ng\u0101 kamupene keri hinu; p\u0113r\u0101 i ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata whai whare maha. P\u0113hea oti ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata, ng\u0101 tamariki, ng\u0101 mokopuna korekau he k\u0101inga, moe ana i roto i ng\u0101 motok\u0101? M\u014Dhio ana t\u0113r\u0101 taha o te Whare te k\u012B a Chris Bishop, n\u0101 m\u0101tou t\u0113r\u0101 h\u0113. E k\u012B, e k\u012B! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EHe aha ai? N\u0101 te mea, k\u0101hore r\u0101tou e whai whakaaro ana ki te oranga o te tangata, te oranga o te whenua, te oranga o te taiao, te oranga o ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata o Aotearoa. N\u014D reira, \u0101e, e t\u016B ana ahau me taku riri i t\u0113nei p\u014D, me taku p\u014Duri, n\u0101 te mea, tata ki te waenganui p\u014D, te p\u014D mutunga o t\u0113nei tautohetohe m\u014D te Tahua P\u016Btea, i t\u0113nei w\u0101 tere, ohorere, he aha te \u2018urgency\u2019 me k\u012B. T\u0113r\u0101 pea, ko t\u0113nei te ture mutunga i t\u0113nei p\u014D, \u0101, e k\u014Drero ana t\u0101tou i t\u0113nei Whare, (i) t\u0113nei pire, te tango i ng\u0101 wh\u0101inga m\u014D te oranga. Tino\u2014\u0101e, patua e te whakam\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EK\u0101hore r\u0101tou e hiahia ana ki ng\u0101 r\u012Bpoata, ki te r\u012Bpoata, mehemea ko \u014D r\u0101tou kaupapa e p\u0113r\u0101 ana, e whakaora ana i te tangata, e whakawhanake ana i te tangata, i te taiao, i te whenua, Aotearoa. K\u0101hore r\u0101tou e hiahia ana ki te aromatawai, te arotake, te r\u012Bpoata ng\u0101 mahi kua tutuki i a r\u0101tou kia pai ake a Aotearoa. K\u0101hore ahau, k\u0101hore m\u0101tou e tautoko ana i t\u0113nei ture kino. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E[My acknowledgments, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m going to begin my speech like this: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EThis bill is a bill to correct the errors and mistakes of the finance Minister, because she isn\u2019t able to count. My suggestion to her is go back to class, for one hour every day, to learn mathematics, so that she can count her Budget correctly. It\u2019s a waste of time to bring this document into this House to correct the uselessness of the Minister of Finance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003ESecondly, I\u2019m extremely saddened that this Government is eliminating the wellbeing initiative in the Act, the Public Finance (Wellbeing) Amendment Act. That had only just started in 2019, and now they have eradicated the wellbeing focus in the Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EWhy? Because they don\u2019t consider the bereaved, the destitute, the people living in cars, not living in houses, living in cars, homeless. They don\u2019t consider people\u2019s health. They\u2019ve abolished the M\u0101ori Health Authority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EThey don\u2019t consider the environment, the health of the environment, the health of the land, the health of people, the health of New Zealand. No. They do consider the progress of their friends, like the tobacco companies, like the oil extraction companies, like the people who own multiple houses. What about the people, the children, the grandchildren instead, who have no homes, who sleep in cars? That side of the House knows that Chris Bishop said that we were to blame. What a cheek! Your front bench has changed the law for people who want to own a house.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EWhy? Because they don\u2019t consider the wellbeing of people, the wellbeing of the land, the wellbeing of the environment, the wellbeing of the people of New Zealand. Therefore, yes, this evening, I stand in my anger, in my sadness, because it is nearly midnight, on the last night that the Budget is debated, in this short moment of time, unexpectedly. What\u2019s the, as we call it, urgency? Perhaps this bill will be the last one tonight, and we are discussing this bill to take away the focus on wellbeing. It\u2019s extremely\u2014yes, you should be ashamed of yourselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EThey don\u2019t want any reports to chronicle if their policies are like that, if they improve people\u2019s wellbeing, if they develop people, the environment, the land, New Zealand. They don\u2019t want to be assessed, to be audited, for the work they do to improve New Zealand to be reported on. I don\u2019t and we don\u2019t support this dreadful bill.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022 data-id=\u00227dca581636214c008a86fe9ff065e75f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227dca581636214c008a86fe9ff065e75f\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National):\u003C/span\u003E As the last Government member to speak to support the Public Finance Amendment Bill, I\u2019m all for it. I support fiscal transparency, strengthening fiscal responsibility, and improving practical operation. I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228372ad71ee904484b4aa80afcd26ee8b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Public Finance Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001355\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f2361e3633fe4e0c90a5c69b81b23f6d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat the Public Finance Amendment Bill be considered by the Finance and Expenditure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Judicature (Timeliness) Legislation Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 116\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 6\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat the Judicature (Timeliness) Legislation Amendment Bill be considered by the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb4aaed9bd8b4fd4a2522069ffdf7e0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb4aaed9bd8b4fd4a2522069ffdf7e0c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Finance and Expenditure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e438b24dbc9a4fe68c0e3e49ae34048e\u0022\u003EJudicature (Timeliness) Legislation Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223a5d3467b51a43a983a827d8007d06e6\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u002210fe7fd7ce2b4b3f986b4ab79153a21a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210fe7fd7ce2b4b3f986b4ab79153a21a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Justice: I present the legislative statement on the Judicature (Timeliness) Legislation Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b1af02df9e34c13b18e7ab29dc1f7d7\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c364429a9f94447891e486273bb8aa0\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Judicature (Timeliness) Legislation Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Justice Committee to consider the bill, and at the appropriate time I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 23 September 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe justice system needs to be able to deal with cases efficiently and fairly, and bring timely resolution for all court parties and participants\u2014which is why this Government is committed to improving timeliness and reducing delays in the courts. New Zealand\u2019s courts are currently experiencing delays, duplication, and proceedings that impede the process of the courts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe Judicature (Timeliness) Legislation Amendment Bill addresses these challenges by maximising judicial resource to improve court timeliness. These changes will reduce duplication and unnecessary churn, and deliver efficiencies not only for the courts but also for partners across the system, including Police and Corrections. Importantly, these changes benefit the people who use the courts: defendants, victims, witnesses, wh\u0101nau, bereaved families\u2014they\u2019ll all get closure more quickly so they can move on with their lives. The changes will also reduce stress and costs for people associated with defending meritless litigation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe bill is an omnibus bill that makes changes across three Acts. The bill is being introduced alongside the Government\u2019s Budget package as the changes either directly link to a Budget initiative or are required to manage cost pressures across the justice system. Court timeliness is expected to reduce costs and the resources required across the justice sector over time, and to ultimately drive savings and efficiencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EFirstly, the bill increases the number of High Court judges that may be appointed from 55 to 57. The maximum number of judges is set in legislation and has not changed in over 20 years, despite the workload of the High Court steadily increasing. These additional judges will better enable the High Court to manage its workload and help to ensure the most serious matters are heard in a timely manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe bill also maximises judicial resource and improves timeliness through changes that will enable civil proceedings that abuse court process, the criminal pre-trial procedures, and appeals to be better managed. In the senior courts, there is an increase in proceedings that are plainly an abuse of process of the courts, which take up valuable judicial time and resource. These proceedings can also cause stress and cost to the other parties involved. The bill will enable abusive proceedings from vexatious litigants to be disposed of quickly by a single judge, allowing judicial attention to be focused on legitimate civil proceedings and reducing the burden on other parties to the proceedings. Vexatious litigants who repeatedly abuse the process of the courts will also be barred from bringing civil proceedings for three years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe bill makes improvements to pre-trial case management in the District Court to drive efficiency and to reduce delays. Currently, multiple charges against the same defendant are often filed and proceeded with in different courts. This means the defendant can have court appearances at several locations, potentially involving multiple prosecutors, legal aid lawyers, and transport to different courts. The bill reduces duplication at this pre-trial stage by enabling a judge to require multiple charges against the same defendant to be case-managed together in one District Court office. Timeliness benefits created through this change will be felt across the system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe bill will also make sure appeals from District Court trials are heard by the most appropriate court. Many appeals related to the District Court judge-alone trials go to the High Court for determination, but appeals relating to the District Court jury trials go above the High Court to the Court of Appeal. These appeals must be heard by a panel of three senior judges, which is time- and resource-intensive because the level of appeal court is based on whether the defendant elected a jury trial or not, rather than the nature of the appeal itself. Some of these appeals could be appropriately heard in the High Court. Therefore, the bill enables one Court of Appeal judge to determine if an appeal from a District Court decision should be referred to the High Court for determination, rather than being heard by a panel of three judges in the Court of Appeal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EFinally, this bill improves timeliness in the coroner\u2019s court. Currently, a coroner is not able to close an inquiry once opened, even if new information or a change in circumstances mean the inquiry is no longer appropriate. The bill will enable this to allow judicial attention to be focused on necessary inquiries and, importantly, this will mean that bereaved family and friends will have closure more quickly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EFrom the outset, this Government has been clear about its commitment to an efficient and effective justice system. These changes will collectively improve court timeliness across multiple jurisdictions, and I\u2019m confident they will enable cases to be progressed more quickly across the system. I look forward to the Justice Committee\u2019s consideration of this bill, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8843011bcba45108e9ce7445b79dbda\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8843011bcba45108e9ce7445b79dbda\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. We support this to select committee, but I just would observe that here we are in Budget urgency on a Saturday night with legislation which simply isn\u2019t urgent. It\u2019s yet another example of this Government abusing parliamentary procedure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut, having said that, here we are. Our job is to scrutinise this legislation. This is legislation which is about as routine as you get. We\u2019ve seen it yesterday. We\u2019ve had a look at it and we formed a view that we should vote in favour of it going to select committee. High Court judges numbers: we accept that they haven\u2019t gone up for a while. They probably need to keep up roughly with population, roughly with the amount of litigation going through the High Court forum, and so it\u2019s very hard to disagree with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EVexatious litigants is the second aspect of this, and we accept that vexatious litigants are challenging and that it\u2019s entirely appropriate to have a look at the rules. And we\u2019re glad that this is going to select committee, because we want to look at it closely because there are a class of litigants who are difficult people, who frame their claims very poorly, but there\u2019s something in them. Now, just because you\u2019re a difficult person who\u2019s hard to get on with and is perhaps obstructive and annoying, doesn\u2019t mean that you shouldn\u2019t have a right to go to court. If you\u2019ve got a good claim, it should get there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo the question about vexatious litigants is where you draw the line between what is an absolutely unmeritorious claim brought in an inappropriate way\u2014and I think you have to have both those strands: both the way in which it\u2019s brought and it being unmeritorious. You\u2019ve got to remember there are plenty of claims which would have been thought as unmeritorious but, ultimately, won the day. Simpson v Attorney-General is the classic example, where it was found that there were damages for an illegal search in breach of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. There was no established right in the law, but, ultimately, the courts recognised that if there was a right to be free from search and seizure, there must be a remedy. But it was brought responsibly. So you\u2019ve got to have both of those things: an absolutely unmeritorious claim and a vexatious litigant as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EDistrict Court case management: I want to look at the detail. I haven\u2019t had a chance to look at the detail, but there is a principle in New Zealand and across the common law world that you get tried, essentially, by your peers in the place where the offence occurred. Whilst if you get into trouble in Queenstown and in Auckland, I can see the administrative efficiency of having it managed in Auckland, say\u2014but at the end of the day, the defendant needs to have a say to make sure that they are tried in the community in which they caused the harm. That\u2019s part of it. It\u2019s actually quite a visceral thing. So that\u2019s the third thing that this does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EAnd then the fourth aspect of this legislation or this bill is the Court of Appeal being able to remit matters back to the High Court on appeal. Now, jury matters in the District Court can be very serious matters. They can hear matters from which would follow, if convicted, very serious sentences\u2014sentences of three years or more that would ultimately be sentenced in the High Court. That\u2019s why they go, ultimately, to the Court of Appeal, because while the trial might happen in the District Court, the sentencing would happen in the High Court. So, again, I can see what\u2019s going on. I can see that the Court of Appeal has a heavy criminal cases workload, but I\u2019m not sure that this is the fix yet, and that\u2019s why this shouldn\u2019t be under urgency. That\u2019s why we should have had more time to look at this, because these are actually relatively important, largely criminal justice, matters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo, yes, we\u2019re going to support it, but this isn\u2019t the forum, this isn\u2019t the time. Let\u2019s see if this makes sense and we\u2019ll have a good look when it gets to select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf5b5cd8bd3843f38bb30feb2f963570\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf5b5cd8bd3843f38bb30feb2f963570\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of the Green Party to speak on the Judicature (Timeliness) Legislation Amendment Bill, and I feel like my portfolios are getting a good workout tonight\u2014seniors, trade, and now justice. What a shame that we didn\u2019t manage to get on to the committee stage of the Invest New Zealand Bill. I was looking forward to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EBut on this bill, in terms of the Judicature (Timeliness) Legislation Amendment Bill, there are three components\u2014well, technically four components\u2014to this. Starting with the Senior Courts Act 2016\u2014I acknowledge the fact that this is an omnibus bill, and I do thank the Minister for giving us the opportunity to scrutinise this in the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, when it comes to the Senior Courts Act, I agree with the other speakers that, yes, the number of High Court judges in Aotearoa New Zealand hasn\u2019t increased in a little while, and this bill does increase the number of High Court judges from 55 to 57, which is much needed, particularly on the back of previous legislation we have seen that increases the number of District Court judges by one. But I also feel like\u2014and particularly with the way that the Government is progressing a number of justice-based legislation\u2014it does raise the question of whether adding even two more senior court judges in the form of High Court is sufficient in terms of the workload that we anticipate or expect, particularly when we haven\u2019t seen, in this bill, an increase in the number of Court of Appeal judges, as well as Supreme Court judges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EBut, overall, the increased number of High Court judges by two is good. For the Greens, I think our biggest concern is around the automatic restraint for vexatious litigation. I think, from our perspective, this is the part that we are really looking forward to, in the select committee: getting a chance to ask legal experts, as well as officials, to give more detail about the breadth of the impact that this would have on people. As the previous speaker, the Hon Dr Duncan Webb, has already mentioned, there are some concerns and fish-hooks around this automatic restraint. I think I particularly found that, out of all of our debates today, the term \u201Cunmeritorious\u201D is probably my favourite word so far. So that is something that, probably, from the Greens\u2019 perspective, is the greatest concern for us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EMoving on to other elements of the bill, when we\u2019re looking at the criminal procedures as well as the coroners, I think, in both cases, they are making important recommendations and looking at something that will potentially assist the backlog and the work that our current court system is currently doing, which is to ensure multiple District Court charges can be heard in one court office, allowing coroners to close an inquiry when a change of circumstance is deemed appropriate. I think all of those things are things that we are interested in finding out, and learning more about, through the committee stage as well. But, on the surface, it seems to support having better resourcing but also better processes and more streamlined processes within our court system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI think it is really important when we\u2019re looking at the way that we do justice or at the trajectory of justice here in Aotearoa New Zealand, particularly in light of some of the recent challenges around access to court and also in terms of the digitalisation of the court system, which is long overdue\u2014I think this bill is something that moves towards having a better system. However, we cannot forget the fundamental issue that, within our court system, we do need to properly fund and resource the system, rather than simply just looking at\u2014I mean, optimisation is important, but the funding part is something that the court system has been asking for for a little while now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ESo it will be good, for myself and also for others, to dig into Budget 2025 as well to see what is available there. But, on the Budget, the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand, does support it to select committee on the basis that there are some really good things that the bill does\u2014I think, most importantly, like I mentioned, the increase of the number of High Court judges. But the thing that we will be scrutinising, moreover, is the automatic restraint of vexatious litigation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022 data-id=\u00229af8b98167794dc4ae405b389df6a5f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229af8b98167794dc4ae405b389df6a5f2\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m so proud to stand up in support of this bill, and, essentially, it\u2019s going to allow the judiciary to focus on cases that matter the most\u2014another way that our Government is putting victims first. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022 data-id=\u0022accac6356c5b49ffab90bff3cfe64746\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022accac6356c5b49ffab90bff3cfe64746\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak in support of the Judicature (Timeliness) Legislation Amendment Bill. This is a significant programme of work, and I acknowledge Minister Goldsmith, who has put this bill together and is driving this programme of work. It\u2019s complex. There\u2019s a lot of moving parts. It is essential. It is, again, an indication of this Government tackling things that have been kicked down the road for a long period of time. We commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u0022b549a053e15d4996b6e67f5e4a5c29ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b549a053e15d4996b6e67f5e4a5c29ef\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou. It is a complicated area. Even the word I struggle to say, just by the way. But the word I don\u2019t struggle to say is \u201Ctimeliness\u201D. Improving timeliness in this context is not the way to get it right. What you need to improve is the system, the deeper system and how it functions and why it dysfunctions. Making it faster, making it smoother\u2014you may as well just say it\u2019s fast tracking more M\u0101ori into prisons. That\u2019s what it sounds like; that\u2019s what it feels like. Sadly, it\u2019s another dot to connect to all the other bills that have been rammed through by them in the last two days. So fast track\u2014well, it is a fast track. It\u2019s fast tracking M\u0101ori into prison. Way to go. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s the other part to it, and you need to hear this. So this is the teaching moment. More judges, we\u2019ve not got more judges, right? And then you build another bed extension in a prison, and then you put $149 billion capacity: you are building it and they will come\u2014you are building it and they will come. That is the context. You won\u2019t understand it, and I\u2019ve already told you why. The fact that you ignore it, I don\u2019t understand; that\u2019s just your privilege blinding you to these ideas, and I hope\u2014but stick with me. But that\u2019s important. It\u2019s important because to understand what I\u2019m saying, you\u2019ve got to have some history and some understanding about this, but you do not\u2014but you do not. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ELook, it\u2019s OK. I\u2019m happy to keep talking and ignore the nattering. This will disproportionately impact M\u0101ori. This is about streamlining the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245472507649043beb7724860fc88325c\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: This is about speeding justice up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b9457ea81784fbeaf19ebed2d2bfaa5\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: This is what was known\u2014and Joseph will know this\u2014as smoothing the dying pillow of M\u0101ori. This is fast tracking M\u0101ori into prisons. [Interruption] This is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293aeb8f593f941e892b21a708b017a2c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Shh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221acf0da7a25749d1bf7c9ce850a10f52\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is smoothing the dying pillow. It might disturb you on the inside and look, ka aroha [condolences] to you, but you need to hear this. The fact that you get all fluffed and you go, \u201CNo, that\u2019s not what we\u2019re doing, Maria. We\u2019re nice white people. We\u2019re good. We\u2019re not the bad ones. We\u2019re the good ones.\u201D\u2014don\u2019t do that to yourself. Pause for a minute and think, \u201CNah, Mariameno, she\u2019s smart enough. She\u2019s worked in this area.\u201D I know this. I know this from the inside out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EI doubt if any of you on my left really know what this is like; I do. I do. I used to work in the prisons. I understand what it sounds like, feels like, what it smells like. I understand this\u2014understand the system of it. So do not talk to me and do not be beguiled by your nonsense in your head that you think I don\u2019t know. I would undo any of you in a debate around this out in the corridor. Trust me, you will fail and I will win. [Interruption] You will fail and I will win. I know this better than anyone. So I\u2019ll leave that with you just to fester on and, hopefully, haunt your dreams because you need to know this. You need to know this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThis is me, a very able, willing, experienced M\u0101ori person telling you that you are screwing up majorly. So you know, well, it\u2019s certainly\u2014it\u2019s like these little nonsenses: \u201COh, I really think this is a great bill and I commend it to the House.\u201D Who on earth talks like that? You sound like a three-year-old. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much, and, hopefully, the nattering and childish giggling on the left, they will understand. They\u2019ll get it one day, one hopes. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc16a4540e5d42198851ce0a597f7632\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc16a4540e5d42198851ce0a597f7632\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I\u2019m just going to remark that, yes, we don\u2019t overuse the word \u201Cyou\u201D in this House, but there were that many teachers coming from over the other side that I didn\u2019t feel the need to correct at that point of time. But it is a good reminder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022 data-id=\u0022891cbdc0665340eeb577a4b2193a452b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022891cbdc0665340eeb577a4b2193a452b\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E The defence rests. I\u2019m not sure which bill that one was about, but this one\u2019s about timeliness in the courts. We had six years of the backlog building up. It\u2019s stabilised now, but we want to improve timeliness, and, to that end, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022 data-id=\u00226550ab48c536483d877b85c40fe75a71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226550ab48c536483d877b85c40fe75a71\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. As my colleague Dr Duncan Webb has said, we will be supporting this through to select committee. I think, as a former chair of the Justice Committee\u2014and I see some other colleagues, the Hon Nicole McKee in the House as well. In the last term of Parliament, we were frequently hit with issues of delay in the courts and it was something that concerned us cross-party, whether it be in the Family Court or in others. Often in a criminal setting, it was a matter of concern for both parties when there was delay in the courts. So in regard to the increase in the number of judges, my initial view is that that seems entirely appropriate. We\u2019re looking at an increase from 55 to 57. I think the only questioning I\u2019ll have at the select committee at that stage is what determined that number and whether that\u2019s sufficient in terms of looking at the backlog.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232efc8a1d6e74389a8cd31064bc36a95\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: That is a legitimately good question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a5d5c8bb4dd4e498432e26d97c36fb5\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you to the Hon Chris Bishop. I think that is a question we should address. I guess part of the reason why I\u2019d address that question is that it\u2019s been 20 years since we\u2019ve increased the number of judges in the High Court. So the question is how we landed on that precise number of two.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EI think, in terms of some of the Government contributions that this is a simple bill and it\u2019s just about that question of efficiency, that\u2019s actually just not true when you read the bill. There are multiple aspects to it, and I think it\u2019s important in the House if, when we speak on bills, we acknowledge every part of the bill. So first part: yes, I agree; the second part: my colleague from Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori raises a very valid point. There are issues in terms of the balance of justice and different rights in this space. That is what the criminal system is about. We cannot deny it in this House. We must always be attuned to what presents in New Zealand Bill of Rights Act vets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EHere, I just echo the comments from the Hon Dr Duncan Webb. There are very live issues here in terms of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. The problem in terms of the way in which this has been introduced is that it doesn\u2019t allow sufficient time for the Opposition to engage with the Attorney-General\u2019s section 7 report. If you wondered what I was doing, scrambling on my computer just then, I was looking for the section 7 report. It is important that all sides of the House review those issues before we consider what we want to make law in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s not an objection from me; it\u2019s just a request that the Government look to going through diligent process for issues that prima facie touch the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, which this absolutely does in terms of further limiting an ability to raise a claim or have an appeal in the House. Again, I\u2019m not saying that it\u2019s not warranted, but we certainly need to examine that, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EPerhaps just the other issue that I was looking at in terms of\u2014there\u2019s a collection of issues that this bill is looking to amend. There\u2019s also one on the Coroner\u2019s Act 2006. Clause 20 provides for a new power for a coroner to close an inquiry they\u2019ve opened if a change in circumstances or new information means that it\u2019s no longer appropriate to complete an inquiry. I\u2019m just highlighting that point because, again, colleagues who were in the last Parliament will be aware that we had several issues come to us in regards to the Coroner\u2019s Court. It is an area where there is a lot of public interest, it\u2019s an area where there is a lot of personal feeling, and I do think when we\u2019re giving powers to a coroner to be able to close an inquiry for any reason, we just need to examine what public sentiment and what the public feeling is around the parameters that we\u2019re putting into legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003ESo I do look forward to a robust select committee process and, no doubt, many submitters who we may have seen before in terms of some of these issues. We will be supporting this bill through to the first reading and, hopefully, address some of the questions that we have at the select committee stage. But if not, then I\u2019m sure that there will be robust questioning of this bill at committee stage as well. Madam Chair, thank you. We will be supporting it to select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u00223215483a70bf463d8d33fc1bc5de0add\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223215483a70bf463d8d33fc1bc5de0add\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand elected this Government in order to restore law and order. It\u2019s been 20 years since the number of High Court judges has been increased. This is a practical step in order for us to deliver on that promise. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u002214cc259d530246de980700d0db5a1273\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214cc259d530246de980700d0db5a1273\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. As I rise to consider this piece of legislation, it was interesting to listen to the debate across the House\u2014some more cohesive than others\u2014but it was interesting to listen and to be in a space where, over a number of days, to actually come to a point of agreeance where we are comfortable to support this in the first reading to take it to select committee, where it rightfully should be, in a place where it can actually have its robust process. I often talk about our small and our agile and swift democracy here in Aotearoa, and how it can actually go to a select committee and be discussed and be unpacked, pulled apart, and put together\u2014and, hopefully, in a better shape\u2014for it to come back into the House for us to debate again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EAs I listened to my colleagues on this side of the House\u2014I listened to the Hon Dr Duncan Webb and to Vanushi Walters\u2014it was just interesting to understand some of what this legislation does and the reasons that we support it. As I was listening\u2014and we\u2019ve heard from a number of speakers around the Coroners Act of 2006\u2014but as we look at that and the changes that this legislation will make, it\u2019s the reality that these are people\u2019s lives that we\u2019re talking about. Yes, this is legislation; these are words, these are laws, these are changes we\u2019re making to how we move forward. But when you have the Coroners Act 2006, it\u2019s actually people\u2019s lives and families that we need to consider the impacts on, and so that\u2019s why we are happy to continue and support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThen we look at population growth and look at the senior court judges. Obviously, as our population continues to rise\u2014it\u2019s a no-brainer, of course: with the rise of population comes, unfortunately, a rise in the need for people to be in the court system and the fact that we need to consider upping the numbers of High Court judges\u2014the first time, as was said just before, within 20 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThen we look at the Act, as it is, around vexatious litigants. This is something I had to read up on. I am no expert on the courts, I will admit, although I\u2019ve spent a lot of time in court\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211019ac52b53423a95589b5f90c37d85\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc73fac49239415184bd4a1a805329a4\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014supporting people. \u201CWhoa\u201D\u2014exciting, eh? But I\u2019ve spent a lot of time in court supporting people. I\u2019ve been in court supporting victims. I spent a lot of time in court supporting offenders. I spent a lot of time in court as a restorative justice facilitator. So I know the District Court well. I know its proceedings and how it works, the ins and outs of it. But we\u2019re looking at, obviously, some High Court stuff here. When it comes to the vexatious litigant, we need to find that balance to make sure there are legitimate cases, that people aren\u2019t playing the system, that people aren\u2019t creating more harm with their frivolous\u2014with things without merit or, indeed, causing hurt and harm, which can actually be part of the court system, which we need to do our best to protect fiercely, because so often, for a victim of crime, the vulnerability of stepping into that courtroom is a place that is not easy for anybody. So we need to make sure that they are protected to the highest degree and ensure that legislation in this place is fit for purpose and will protect people\u2014that is important. I\u2019ve seen that many times in my role as a restorative justice facilitator.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EMy final thoughts are around the Criminal Procedure Act of 2011. Now, as I was looking through the legislation and getting my head around this\u2014I don\u2019t sit on the Justice Committee, but I think it\u2019s always good, in this place, to learn and understand the breadth of knowledge you pick up when you have random legislation that isn\u2019t in your wheelhouse. Just looking at the Court of Appeal\u2014relating to the District Court decisions to be heard by a court at the appropriate level. I think it\u2019s important when we look at the \u201Cappropriate level\u201D because, often, the paperwork and, I want to say, almost the binary space of our judicial\u2014judicial\u2014I can\u2019t even say the word\u2014\u201Cthat system\u201D\u2014is the fact\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4b155e1524a41f0ab54d63f5068d73a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s getting late.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ee443334ae54d158da1c65615f44f0a\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, it is late. We\u2019ve got to get it right, so the fact that we\u2019ve got to find appropriate levels to do that I think is important, that\u2019s why we\u2019ll support it to select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7c2fdaecca74ec2b8b2a29f06573c0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7c2fdaecca74ec2b8b2a29f06573c0c\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. This is a short, sharp, and very pragmatic proposed piece of legislation, and therefore I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001420\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001421\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00226ed4b9e957944018b6a563991f897ee1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ed4b9e957944018b6a563991f897ee1\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223f4a792be9b74f4cb636e7277c54e7af\u0022\u003EInstruction to the Justice Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u00225c69f410ab474039ac5d3713d2d8d665\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c69f410ab474039ac5d3713d2d8d665\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Judicature (Timeliness) Legislation Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 23 September 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fd8fd4defb8247b8918456ebbe49c59a\u0022\u003ELegal Services (Distribution of Special Fund) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228634d60c200d46fb893c2fd02d72c519\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce80c6d91b3c468aac3c1f850899f5e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce80c6d91b3c468aac3c1f850899f5e4\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Justice: I present the legislative the statement on the Legal Services (Distribution of Special Fund) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe08639364134b5a95680191d9cecfcb\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef293c17ed504900b1a0aca920811aea\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Legal Services (Distribution of Special Fund) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Justice Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by four months and one day after it has received its first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EFrom the outset, this Government has been clear about its commitment to an efficient and effective justice system. Promoting access to justice in a way that is sustainable is important to achieve this. The Lawyers and Conveyancers Special Fund\u2014the Special Fund\u2014serves an important role to ensure that people can access free legal help in the community. The fund works by collecting interest from banks on solicitors\u2019 and licensed conveyancers\u2019 nominated trust accounts. Money in the Special Fund must be paid to the Secretary for Justice for the purpose of funding community law centres.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ECurrently, the law is narrowly framed and there is ambiguity around whether Special Fund money can be used to meet expenses incurred by community law centres when delivering community legal services. Section 94 of the Legal Services Act 2011 enables the secretary to enter into contracts with the community law centres to purchase community legal services. Money provided by the secretary under contracts must come from either or both the Special Fund, or any other money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThis bill makes a minor change to broaden the use of the Special Fund. It does this by amending the scope of section 94 to enable the secretary to enter into contracts to also fund, facilitate, or otherwise support the provision of community legal services by community law centres.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe bill does not affect the core purpose of the Special Fund. The secretary would continue to have discretion to enter contracts and determine whether funding should be provided. This change will support the long-term funding of organisations that deliver community legal services and ensure people are able to access the legal help that they need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI look forward to the Justice Committee\u2019s consideration of the bill and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002220c9faf03929459391dbeac4edf42d6c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220c9faf03929459391dbeac4edf42d6c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00220cd13e7803944024a4e650edb6c77991\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220cd13e7803944024a4e650edb6c77991\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Here we are, at 15 minutes to midnight on a Saturday night\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a27ae1c7f8ca41f9b383a728b0568270\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s still Thursday, actually!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b4cdc31105046beb904664be5a38660\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, whatever night you like. That\u2019s one of the strange twists of parliamentary procedure. We\u2019re looking at probably one of the most trivial bills that could be possibly imagined. Whether it\u2019s even necessary is moot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ECan I just commend the official who wrote the Minister\u2019s speech and managed to give her four minutes of material, because what this bill does\u2014the current Act provides that in respect of legal services the Secretary for Justice may, as they determine appropriate, \u201Center into a contract with 1 or more community law centres to purchase community legal services\u201D. So that\u2019s the current law. The new law adds to that \u201C[and to] fund, facilitate, and otherwise support the provision of community legal services.\u201D So that\u2019s it\u2014that\u2019s it. There\u2019s about 12 words in there, but she managed to stretch four minutes out of that. So well done to the official. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWhat I want to know is who\u2019s actually digging here, because I can\u2019t see\u2014to be perfectly honest\u2014how you even need it, because to purchase community legal services, you\u2019ve got to purchase those things that fund, facilitate, and otherwise support the provision of community legal services. This seems to be a problem that doesn\u2019t actually exist, so I\u2019ll be interested, when we go to select committee for four months and one day, to know exactly what the problem is. I absolutely support the work that\u2019s being done by community law centres. They do great work. I would have thought that a fair, large, and liberal interpretation\u2014which, if you read the Interpretation Act, is how we approach statutory interpretation\u2014is that if you purchase community legal services, you also purchase the administrative and other services that go into providing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m very perplexed, and I\u2019ll give the officials a heads-up that I\u2019ll want to know that: exactly what is the problem here? Why is it that we\u2019ve got to have this clarification? Why is it that we\u2019ve got to have 123 MPs\u2014as if\u2014sitting in this House wondering about this on a Thursday or Saturday night whilst we do this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ETo suggest that this is urgent is absolutely ridiculous. I\u2019m very happy to spend tonight here with some of my good friends and some other people, but I simply cannot understand why we need to have this tacked on in urgency and to look at this question as if New Zealand\u2019s future depends on how community law centre support services are funded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s wait and see. Maybe it will be a tough committee. Maybe we\u2019ll get there and we\u2019ll wrestle with some big issues over community law centres. Perhaps this is really going to be the Government saying, \u201CCommunity law centres are doing such a good job that we wanted to make it really clear we can fund them more because they do such great work helping the most vulnerable members of our community out with some tough issues around employment, around immigration, around family violence that we want to make sure that we can give them more and the Special Fund or other funds can fund them appropriately.\u201D So\u2014great. But to be perfectly honest, I think that the Minister has, in some ways, been given a shake by somebody who\u2019s like, \u201CWhat are you doing over here?\u201D, and her officials have said, \u201COh my goodness! Someone might judicially review us.\u201D And rather than saying, \u201CGet out of here. They\u2019ve purchased community legal services, as a perfectly legitimate thing to do, including support services.\u201D But she\u2019s taken another\u2014perhaps you should throw a retrospectivity clause in there just in case you funded them last year rather than this year. But, look, off we go to select committee, four months and one day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ff1e4fb276c44c98e4e378198795599\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229160906420154b1caf2ec193acdcd44c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve got a point of order, with six seconds to go, from Simon Court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ff4651592d14a569db6aaf8618278e5\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Does the member need a glass of water?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef01bc11f8ee4b0b8546176ed1d94ab2\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order. [Interruption] He looks like he\u2019s still alive. Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271973f1654c64065bb4dff760c60c1e0\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b3dd52ad6234bb3aa6822ad887226a1\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Do you want your six seconds?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea789d167e28484f858ae5c5715e96cc\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: I absolutely want to do six seconds. I\u2019m very grateful to the last Labour Government for giving me clean drinking water, thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00227fbcf802cd5c466295d10590a1c15e59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227fbcf802cd5c466295d10590a1c15e59\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Here we go again, 10 minutes before midnight. Again, I rise on behalf of the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand to speak on the Legal Services (Distribution of Special Fund) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, I think the first thing that we need to sort of unpack here\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022295a390cdbe540f0ad1c876a2180df95\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Slow down\u2014slow down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224b22fcddf754f87a9db6af46f75df2d\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s a lot of stuff to say about this bill. I\u2019m actually less excited about the bill, but more excited about the prospect of what our community law centres are currently doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe thing with this particular bill that I\u2019m concerned with, similar to the previous speaker, the Hon Dr Duncan Webb, is: why do we need this bill in the first place and what is the problem about this bill? Now, for context, in terms of the Special Fund and what it is being used for right now: the Special Fund primarily is being funded for community law centres across Aotearoa as part of Community Law Centres o Aotearoa. There are 21 centres in Aotearoa geographically, and three special offices looking at different issues, including disability, including youth, and including family. When we are looking at the work that community law centres do, unlike other elements that are in dire need\u2014and in the last speech, I mentioned some of the broader concerns with the justice and court system in Aotearoa New Zealand around access to justice. Broadly speaking, on par with this, community law centre and legal aid go hand in hand. Legal aid is currently going through a review because, fundamentally, the problem we have there is the fact that we are looking at an industry or a sector that people don\u2019t want to go into because of the issues. We\u2019re particularly seeing geographical issues when it comes to certain areas not being able to access legal aid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EHowever, when we\u2019re looking at the use of the Special Fund for community law centres, the issues and opportunities present in a different way. One of the biggest issues that we do have here, from the community law centre, is the fact that one of the things they have the most challenges around is access to family lawyers. You would imagine that that particular access is an issue for regional and rural communities but, in fact, it is broadly more of an issue in urban areas. The reason we\u2019re able to get those kinds of insights is because of the community law centres being at the front line of a lot of the work that they do and, particularly, representing a part of our community that usually is under-represented, through the work that they do, particularly around family law and employment law being their two biggest areas of legal practice that they represent, as well as immigration law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EOne of the things we do hear from them is\u2014and the fact that we are able to learn this is because they have that broader insight across Aotearoa New Zealand in terms of the work they do, which is funded by the Special Fund that we see here in the Lawyers and Conveyancers Act 2006. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI\u2019m concerned that the broadening of the scope of the Special Fund is a lot more\u2014I\u2019m hoping to be proven wrong\u2014sinister and removing some of the funding that is currently going towards CLCA: Community Law Centres o Aotearoa. I don\u2019t know of any other reason why we need to specify that when that is already the current level of operation. The only thing I can think of is that through the Special Fund\u2014which is not a Government fund because it\u2019s specially required as part of legislation such as the one we are amending right now, which means that it is not part of the budgetary process. However, the Government is able, potentially, to use legislation like this to alter the way that the funding is being used by Community Law Centres o Aotearoa, and redirect and redistribute some of the funding for them to other areas. So I\u2019m hoping to be proven wrong and this is why I\u2019m excited that we will have a select committee stage as a result of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EBut that is a problem because what we have seen\u2014particularly in recent years with CLCA, as part of their most recent package\u2014an uplift of 14 percent in terms of access to justice. I particularly shout out to the kaupapa M\u0101ori initiative in Tair\u0101whiti. So, with all of that, at this stage, the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand cannot really support this bill without proper scrutiny.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022 data-id=\u0022536b5f74e3d1438fb30ea4c3d30443ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022536b5f74e3d1438fb30ea4c3d30443ce\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s an absolute pleasure to stand here and tautoko this bill that we\u2019re talking about tonight. It\u2019s a shame that the Green Party can\u2019t support it\u2014I think that\u2019s what I understood\u2014because, essentially, this bill is going to clarify a lot of the situations that the fund found itself in. What I\u2019ve said before is that, unfortunately, whatever Labour gets its hands on become nebulous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EI just want to do a shout-out to the community law centres. As I was studying law in Australia, I did see a lot of the community lawyers. A lot of the time they didn\u2019t focus on what they were wearing. They were just focused on helping the people they were helping. What I\u2019d also like to say is that there is a reason why we brought this bill before the House, and the reason will continue to show itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EBut what I love is the fact that our Government is focusing on law and order, as we have said throughout the last two debates. With that, I would like to say it\u2019s been a wonderful one day\u2014or a few days\u2014as we have been progressing our Government\u2019s agenda after the Budget. I also want to say I am proud of the fact that our Government is focusing on law and order\u2014[Interruption]\u2014whether it\u2019s a frivolous bill or not, and I want to thank all the staff of the Office of the Clerk for helping us out, bringing us water, and bringing us the notes. Thank you very much. I can see Venice there\u2014thank you very much. It\u2019s been wonderful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EI also want to say that a dress does not make a person\u2014Nicola looked absolutely amazing, and this Minister in front of me is one of my favourite transport Ministers after Simeon, and he\u2019s going to get Mill Road done. The suit he\u2019s wearing is nice as well; not as nice as some other suits around me. Tom Rutherford is looking pretty sharp. When Mill Road is done, people will be able to get to the courts\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022793baee109294a62899a9c7ec0596532\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I just want to check for clarity that the member over there\u2014as we heard with a previous speaker, the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor\u2014has referred to someone who is not in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f45913cbe7ae4eb29643867658d73425\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry; I didn\u2019t pick up on somebody not being in the House. Carry on, member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022effaad4bf373436faff2d78f5372e1c3\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE\u003C/span\u003E: I can\u2019t wait for Mill Road to get done because when it gets done, people will be able to get to the courthouses much quicker, so that we can focus on our victims. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022 data-id=\u00229332d2796ab6450aa301c73265fab597\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229332d2796ab6450aa301c73265fab597\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to support the Legal Services (Distribution of Special Fund) Amendment Bill. As a member of the Justice Committee, I look forward to hearing submissions on this bill. The Justice Committee is a very hard-working committee. Our new chair, Andrew Bayly, is doing a great job, and we look forward to hearing the submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThis bill puts an approach to ensure efficient use of existing resources, maintaining high-quality legal support without additional burdens on the Crown. That\u2019s something that this side of the House is trying to do. As I\u2019ve said earlier in other speeches, this 2025 Budget will be a game-changer\u2014and any moment now as that clock clicks on to 12 a.m., it will be a game-changer. I would like to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae8a1ce6957647f7a8938db22fd037c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae8a1ce6957647f7a8938db22fd037c2\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you to the member. Members, the time has come for me to leave the Chair. The debate is interrupted and set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until Tuesday, 3 June 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202505229485684f2886458ea61e1138adcfa0c2001472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 12.00 a.m. (Sunday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"