"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cfd180639d4c4ee99a0ee66e2d3d1dbf\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 19 AUGUST 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222abdb83f02fe41b19319ca88177c655f\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 19 AUGUST 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ab07afb6d87a4c1b8756cf1aeb18552a\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d26fc5f670a8470ea96b5d77ced54704\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e126c772adc74d4a9442f2964e757bc5\u0022 data-id=\u00222c2c59f89ace4665bcddc4328d573e14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e126c772adc74d4a9442f2964e757bc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c2c59f89ace4665bcddc4328d573e14\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Labour\u2014Panmure-\u014Ct\u0101huhu):\u003C/span\u003E \u2018E \u2018Otua M\u0101fimafi, kuo mau taa\u2019im\u0101lie \u2018i ho\u2019o \u2018of\u00E1 mo e ngaahi t\u0101puaki hono kotoa. \u2018Oku tuku homau lot\u00F3 ka mau h\u016B atu ke ke malu\u2019i ange mu\u2019a \u2018a e Tu\u2019i mo tataki ange \u2018emau fua fatongia \u2018i he Fale Ale\u00E1, \u2018aki \u2018a e poto faka-e-\u2018Otua, \u2018ofa pea mo e \u2018ulungaanga mal\u016B ko e \u2018uh\u00ED ko e mo\u2019ui pea mo e melino \u2018a e fonu\u00E1. \u2018Oku mau kole atu \u2018a e ngaahi me\u2019\u00E1 ni hono kotoa \u2018i he huafa \u2018o ho \u2018Alo p\u0113 \u2018e taha ko S\u012Bs\u016B Kalaisi ko homau fakamo\u2019ui. \u2018\u0112meni.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221ca9f0c8461044379b4b543a2eef1c4f\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228993a7ecbb3341aab15d6f2a75fd98a9\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u00227108839006d94d7c97060de165c311f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227108839006d94d7c97060de165c311f3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A petition has been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002259a93a9a17cd444889880732da632acd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259a93a9a17cd444889880732da632acd\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Petition of Jade Steel requesting that the House urge the Government not to increase glyphosate residue limits in food, and to hold an independent reassessment of glyphosate\u2019s safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u0022252e1a490dc3462fbd8e07d6d86f5695\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022252e1a490dc3462fbd8e07d6d86f5695\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That petition stands referred to the Petitions Committee. Ministers have delivered three papers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc16d04018f44f1db540d21503a2f1a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc16d04018f44f1db540d21503a2f1a8\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EInternational Labor Organisation, report of delegates to the International Labour Conference\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EGovernment Response to Report of the Petitions Committee on the Petition of Carjam Online Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EReferral of the petition of Nic Mills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u0022e18872f0e2ce48f88f548ee0435f5d3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e18872f0e2ce48f88f548ee0435f5d3e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The papers are published under the authority of the House. Two select committee reports have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002222c1050b0aee4e8faedaa63fbf8b2b56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222c1050b0aee4e8faedaa63fbf8b2b56\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EReport of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee on the Consumer Guarantees (Right to Repair) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EReport of the Governance and Administration Committee on the Auckland Council (Auckland Future Fund) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0c8cf16ae884fd6a738f25ae2df3445\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0c8cf16ae884fd6a738f25ae2df3445\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those bills are set down for second reading. The Clerk\u2019s been informed of the introduction of two bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022855693c95bf346e591fef5b14eaab5bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022855693c95bf346e591fef5b14eaab5bc\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ESummary Offences (Demonstrations Near Residential Premises) Amendment Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ELand Transport (Clean Vehicle Standard) Amendment Bill (No 2), introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002209c642c60d28429498ff0dc379309663\u0022\u003EPersonal Explanations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223ee5ec02b8f0409bad902fef01d83bca\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u2014Comment Made During Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227b9d7951744240569e55387728ca5953\u0022 data-id=\u0022096b461c1de448e9a5075f48a8b7ed7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b9d7951744240569e55387728ca5953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022096b461c1de448e9a5075f48a8b7ed7a\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to make a personal statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222304e76d8539420d860879f9e0e466cb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Generally, you have to outline \u201Cconcerning\u201D\u2014personal statement concerning. Sorry, the rules have changed a little bit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b9d7951744240569e55387728ca5953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254ff464d2f1847fda5853588af248684\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s about a comment I made on 2 April this year in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228902d291c01414db2cf43788c3c6faa\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b9d7951744240569e55387728ca5953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acd3a970ab5f4fc9a4301bbbd4a3f034\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: On 2 April this year, more than four months ago, in a general debate, I made a comment which on reflection I should withdraw and apologise for. I said, \u201CThe number of frauds committed by the Green Party in the last election knows no bounds.\u201D That remark was in the heat of a noisy, heckling period, and I misread my notes. Everyone in this House at the time would understand it was clearly not the Green Party being referenced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bc651c91ec4b485d891ad3c216c4a0b1\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227518577f01c0403d8bf19ab90be460e5\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aee14a82fe134119871a321a2f1d4fdb\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00222aaa8dedb9c9465fba278ff76177c43d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222aaa8dedb9c9465fba278ff76177c43d\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has she seen on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022 data-id=\u00220ffd0bb615cb4514b28ced6bca10eb8d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ffd0bb615cb4514b28ced6bca10eb8d\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve seen a recent report from Fitch, the international ratings agency, affirming New Zealand\u2019s AA\u002B\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214e41c3f72ea4da2aded500ece261356\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on a minute. Points of order should be\u2014I was going to say relevant, which is probably not the right way to put it, but let\u2019s give the Minister a chance to say one or two things before there\u2019s too much comment. The Hon Nicola Willis, start again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dce58c3f356d48339f008ee66821a3d3\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve seen a recent report from Fitch, the international ratings agency, affirming New Zealand\u2019s AA\u002B foreign currency rating, with a stable outlook. New Zealand also has AA\u002B from S\u0026amp;P and a AAA rating from Moody\u2019s. These ratings are important. They affect the cost of Government borrowing. For members who don\u2019t have the dollar figures off the top of their heads, I can confirm that the Government\u2019s interest bill is forecast to be $9.5 billion this year, compared with an average of $3.5 billion in the 2010s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259e93e648526465da9136c3ef55f877b\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: How does New Zealand\u2019s interest bill compare to other items of Government spending?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216307d138768499f8487f0db7af55547\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, obviously, $9.5 billion is a lot of money, despite some people saying, as recently as this morning, that it\u2019s relatively small. To put it in context, members, it would fund four Waterview Tunnels and three Transmission Gullies each and every year. Putting it another way, the amount we pay each year in interest would roughly fund the annual operating costs of the Defence Force, the Police, Corrections, the Ministry of Justice, and the Customs Service put together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4c8c27db0a445228d48a6a0fae37eb4\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: How does our credit rating affect the costs of borrowing in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7b4cf160b9747b6b3173d75ca86ade7\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: A sovereign credit rating is a measure of how likely the Government is to default or how worthy it is to receive new credit. A downgrade would result in higher interest costs for the Government, as lenders demand greater compensation for risk. It would also result in higher interest costs for households and businesses, as New Zealand would be seen by lenders as a more risky proposition overall. New Zealand is one of only 12 countries in the world to have an AA\u002B or AAA rating from Fitch. That means we are able to borrow on world markets at reasonable rates. Any change to that would put extra costs on New Zealand households, businesses, and taxpayers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c05bf75213f945efa9e5a1d58c2537a8\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: What did Fitch have to say about New Zealand\u2019s ability to maintain its current credit rating?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208ff7716451a4e79a08cb2f45cc4b1c2\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Fitch report sends a very clear warning. It says New Zealand\u2019s current rating is underpinned by the current Government\u2019s strong commitment to fiscal consolidation and an expectation that debt as a percentage of GDP will start to reduce. But it warns that \u201CEvidence of a weakening in the culture of fiscal commitment to fiscal responsibility would affect creditworthiness\u201D. It says that \u201CLower confidence of Government debt reducing as a percentage of GDP could lead to a downgrade\u201D. We cannot take our good credit rating for granted. Those who seek to ramp up Government spending and debt should think hard about what that would do to New Zealand\u2019s hard-won international reputation and to borrowing costs that ultimately fall on everyday New Zealand households, businesses, and taxpayers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022849e7b3a67c94c2bb6589bc1c9f10295\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed1d93b19fe84d009cff327fa47e39b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed1d93b19fe84d009cff327fa47e39b8\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022 data-id=\u0022cdd0caef7b634104ac6860b44b3dd569\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cdd0caef7b634104ac6860b44b3dd569\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256c8b9c93ee14c17924685eb6cdcdd50\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why has his Government prioritised pay increases of up to 80 percent for board directors, whilst offering schoolteachers a pay increase of only 1 percent\u2014less than the rate of inflation and, effectively, a pay cut?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f84dfd8433a14717a4e3520fb712d497\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they\u2019re two separate issues. One is we need to make sure, when we\u2019re spending a huge amount of Government spending, that our entities are well governed and well managed, and so that is about what director pay has been adjusted for. With respect to the second leg of the question around teacher pay, I think he has the numbers wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226964b6f59c734cad91e50c157a212005\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Is he really in a position to say that other people have got their numbers wrong when it comes to schoolteachers\u2019 pay?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233caa71fd68542c9b07b31f86147fec1\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I certainly would think that that member is not in a position to say he\u2019s got numbers wrong. He is the $66 billion man that doesn\u2019t know the cost of the debt that he ran up. He doesn\u2019t know the cost of the ferry projects. He doesn\u2019t know the cost of the Dunedin hospital project or the debt that was run up under K\u0101inga Ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022609c49f3d8ae48f7a4266cbbba80014a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why did his Government prioritise a $3 billion tax cut for landlords, whilst cutting funding for emergency housing and increasing the number of people who are living homeless on the streets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9dec28d873846a28f18b303b42605e5\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, because we actually want people out of motels, and, as the member will understand, in his time of Government, homelessness went up 34 percent despite spending a billion dollars on emergency housing. We have got good management, good Ministers. They\u2019ve done the work, and they\u2019ve managed to get families with kids into warm, dry homes. That\u2019s a good thing. I\u2019d hope that member would celebrate that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284c1e0c9c0234f35b54769df9bb7ffbc\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why did his Government prioritise a $300 million tax cut for tobacco companies, whilst his Government is allowing the cost of visiting a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b9d7951744240569e55387728ca5953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222fda48d68334b93bf3f85c8be23dd2a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. No one should be allowed to get up in this House, put out a shibboleth, and base the question on that. How on earth can a $300 million tax cut\u2014and it was $200 million. How could that, if the tax cut came from a reduction in the sale of cigarettes and tobacco, and a reduction in the sales was a reduction in the tariffs going to the Government, amount to what he\u2019s just claimed it to be at the beginning of his question? They\u2019ve done it for the umpteenth time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u00220018d98e287a443492b593b26059fffe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220018d98e287a443492b593b26059fffe\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and it is true that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225219806f1623420a9f88c663d295a4c3\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Give him some advice. Surely you get it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223480570e0b704f789c79afacfdbe4533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b198bdc912740e5bea6627b377ab990\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Ooh, Nicola.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4993957a50048b0878ee938457a9440\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: One voice at the moment, thank you, Dr Woods. It is true that assertions like that should not be made in questions. Equally, though, if that is the case, then I think the answer the Prime Minister gives would certainly be able to rebut any inappropriate suggestion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e62bb7d22265437baa28fd36ec31b45b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was interrupted in the middle. Can I ask the question so that the Prime Minister can actually know what the question is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7124e0dffdf4e88a01a5f2dc992bdc5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7124e0dffdf4e88a01a5f2dc992bdc5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Let me put it this way. If you\u2019re going to ask the question again, ask it within the confines of Standing Orders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f104c68a3e94f45915d2491d4ecb03b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: It is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235784ef2c3644b82821415d20fb28e9a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014you made an assertion that was not in the nature of a question. I\u2019m sure you can work that out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5564493b3a342ad92619802314bf22f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Government change the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022631756b7311c484b9891ba6cb5490656\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014hang on. All calm, no one else speaking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022095ff392f0104c4a96058ba82e23ca70\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Government change the tax rules around tobacco, resulting in the Government taking $300 million less in revenue, whilst allowing the cost of visiting a doctor to nudge closer to $100 for everyday Kiwi families trying to stay healthy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cd200eafa44485289993326137113f4\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Again, it\u2019s not surprising to me the member doesn\u2019t understand the difference between a contingency put aside for a loss of excise revenue, and tax\u2014that they are two quite different things. With respect to the second leg of the question, that is why this Government is spending a huge amount, it\u2019s spending more than any previous Government in the history of New Zealand, in healthcare\u2014$17 billion extra last year; 7 percent more this year\u2014and expanding urgent care and more primary care for people to be able to see their GPs in a much quicker fashion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ac9b24510b349a28c20cbb8a53a950d\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that rents for New Zealanders have actually fallen since the Government made the tax rules for rental property the same as every other part of the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e302569570594ba4ba79a1b573b612f7\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Under the previous Government, rents went up $180 a week; under this Government, they\u2019re down $5 a week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be85bf1e6ec54325b5e215bcc2d51b3b\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. There was nothing wrong with the question, but the answer certainly is in breach of the guidance that you\u2019ve given Ministers consistently throughout this term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u00227544c9ef51124cffa5a00e38d6eb26ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227544c9ef51124cffa5a00e38d6eb26ea\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I actually hadn\u2019t heard enough of the answer to leap to that conclusion, but I think the answer should be within the bounds of Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8398cb8832d48d4b3a0ba0a6f60c04b\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Rents have proudly fallen $5 a week. That is very different from the record of the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225819ab5c4f634c2888f1a81ec892950d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why did his Government prioritise funding for his failed FamilyBoost policy, which has resulted in not one single family receiving the full $250 a fortnight he promised them, whilst cutting entitlements to free early childhood education that would have benefited tens of thousands of Kiwi families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2e73ca540bb4ecc80d39f5437bd7d80\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, look, I thank the member for his regular questions on FamilyBoost, because we want to tell as many New Zealanders as possible to jump on www.myir.ird.govt.nz. With our expanded settings, we think there\u2019ll be another 22,000 families that will be entitled to FamilyBoost support, and that is a good thing for low and middle income working New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b9d7951744240569e55387728ca5953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268bf350b4787447ea70577580c881cc3\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c523c2e4534341b8bb6107a7939907f0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why did his Government prioritise over half a billion dollars in tax breaks for multinational tech companies like Google and Facebook\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8819f2c2c25445fbbf9b8fe239eb3ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8819f2c2c25445fbbf9b8fe239eb3ec\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sorry. Was there a point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b9d7951744240569e55387728ca5953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0dd4d26b1a544cbabf3bc4e8fd3ac9a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea2926316c744159bc64b66488663119\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea2926316c744159bc64b66488663119\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK. My apologies, I didn\u2019t see that the member rose. We\u2019ll continue with that and then I\u2019ll come to the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249cbf22ceb114c5a8e9a3348a5741310\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why did his Government prioritise over half a billion dollars in tax breaks for multinational tech companies like Google and Facebook, whilst 72,000 Kiwis have given up on his leadership and left the country in the past year, the highest since 2012?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022097e393edcb94d09876cbbc0609e86f8\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I\u2019d say to the member that we are wanting to grow this economy. One of the ways we do that is we make sure that we get more innovation and technology into this country so we can create high-paying jobs for New Zealanders into the future. That\u2019s why this Government has a great economic plan about building our education, getting rid of the red tape and the bureaucracy, and making sure we embrace more trade and investment, more science, technology, innovation, and modern reliable infrastructure. If we can do that, we will lift collective living standards and raise the wages and incomes of all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b9d7951744240569e55387728ca5953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290a44f38e0124d32981a0d4b910057bc\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Could I ask the Prime Minister what his Government\u2019s view is when someone regards the reduction in tobacco and cigarette use which leads to a $300 million decline in tax revenue to the Government as being a $300 million gift to the tobacco industry\u2014what\u2019s his view when somebody makes that stupid statement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b709484066f4fc99d0c8677e30b0412\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is a total mischaracterisation of the policy of this Government. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u0022442832ab57e44076b9a3e5df95699539\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022442832ab57e44076b9a3e5df95699539\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House will resume.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b9d7951744240569e55387728ca5953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227abde5311dee4c75a077ec81a80d4809\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. We have sat here for month after month after month while those members have repeated that lie in this House. I am seeking to correct it. Why do you think it\u2019s a matter of no importance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u00225e8593fcb7d543c4b5c7f459630e8b8e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e8593fcb7d543c4b5c7f459630e8b8e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I don\u2019t think it\u2019s a matter of no importance. That\u2019s why your question stood and the Prime Minister was called to answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266f17b66fac746939e647fe010e13fde\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Last week you ejected a member and named them for saying that they were struggling to find members with a backbone. How is accusing other members of repeatedly lying in the House any different?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u00221b7860b718b74ad381a30829d031a82a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b7860b718b74ad381a30829d031a82a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is quite different in my head. One was directed very personally at members of Parliament. The other was a question about repeating a lie. Now, if you\u2019re taking a point of order on that, then\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022535faae9c0ca46a5a3bcd7201e66b824\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u00221b4f2c6532ca4b78a7e3f104f6a5b0a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b4f2c6532ca4b78a7e3f104f6a5b0a4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Wait on. What I would say to you is that\u2014oh, I don\u2019t like using that saying. The member knows that there is a remedy by way of the Standing Orders\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ea57c5adf594f088630d2b5968f0d77\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u0022f35ad9d1cddf40d18f62efc0be5fd92a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f35ad9d1cddf40d18f62efc0be5fd92a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014hang on; wait until I\u2019m finished\u2014to have that corrected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284f5c248927d41b3832c1c1df7a933d5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. It has never been the case that where a member has called another member or group of members liars, they have to raise a privilege complaint to have the Speaker do something about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u0022fee6a6f760c246ae8178708d0af095aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fee6a6f760c246ae8178708d0af095aa\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. Sorry. You\u2019re pushing it too far. To suggest that there is something out there that is a lie and is being repeated is not an allegation against any individual member or group of members. Do you have a supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022794f48b9c62e48228d6c73b706ee1f00\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why did his Government spend less on infrastructure projects in 2024 than in the year before, leaving Kiwis out of work, whilst increasing Government spending on jobseeker benefits for those very same Kiwis who lost their jobs because of his Government\u2019s decisions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225717831f774417ea0a775018a131bfb\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I\u2019ve said to the member before, the construction industry has certainly been very challenged, because his Government drove up interest rates, and we\u2019re bringing them down. We now have $207 billion worth of projects in the infrastructure pipeline. We\u2019ve got $6 billion happening before Christmas. We are relentlessly focused on growth. I\u2019d just say to that member: reverse your decision on fast track, get in behind, support the construction industry, and stop the crocodile tears.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e82ba43126d44c3682988ea03f999fac\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why did his Government choose to increase the minimum wage by below the rate of inflation for two years in a row, meaning minimum wage workers have had their pay cut in real terms two years in a row, while Kiwis continue to struggle with the cost of living, a crisis that\u2019s getting worse, not better under his leadership?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fd36ac9dea14f71bc9e5a601799c68b\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s exactly why this Government supported tax relief for the first time in 14 years for low and middle income working New Zealanders. It wasn\u2019t deeply ideological; it was just lifting the tax thresholds. Any party could have got on board with that. It was common sense. Sadly, his party didn\u2019t. If he backed low and middle income working New Zealanders, he would have supported that, he\u2019d support FamilyBoost, he\u2019d support fast track, and he\u2019d support repealing the oil and gas ban.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba42739da5534be89ca9298601d552af\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: When he says that the economy and the country are turning the corner, while food prices continue to skyrocket, unemployment continues to go up, more and more businesses go broke, and hundreds of Kiwis leave the country permanently every day, why won\u2019t he simply admit that his Government is all \u201Cdelulu\u201D and no \u201Csolulu\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb73aa9edc614dceb5d8a998b2035c51\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb73aa9edc614dceb5d8a998b2035c51\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: In so much as the Prime Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b04702e2bb74d0ebaab38ee921f46d6\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, could he repeat the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u0022a44a68fb7f1344288a266b12d13e9ca0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a44a68fb7f1344288a266b12d13e9ca0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think we need the question repeated. We\u2019ll move on to question No. 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002246d36f102d3743e0b5f7ea9491659c6d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Workplace Relations and Safety\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022 data-id=\u0022f21968213eab42f98fe0a6bedf0d407e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f21968213eab42f98fe0a6bedf0d407e\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: Does she stand by her statement that \u201CThis Government denounces sex-based discrimination in the workplace\u201D; if so, does she think that the submission made by Pay Equity Aotearoa urging the United Nations to investigate whether the changes to pay equity law breach the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women is consistent with this statement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f225b9990b9149c7be81abbd49ab75c8\u0022 data-id=\u00222b4975ccca5f4bf1b74d799b415c01f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f225b9990b9149c7be81abbd49ab75c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b4975ccca5f4bf1b74d799b415c01f7\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I stand by my statement, and I am confident that changes this Government has made to pay equity legislation are consistent with the convention the member has asked about. In particular, I am satisfied that this Government remains compliant with our international obligations as the new pay equity model continues to ensure women receive equal pay for work of equal value. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250d889585139440b880b0f5a04d68312\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with New Zealand Council of Trade Unions secretary Melissa Ansell-Bridges that \u201CCancelling pay equity for more than 180,000 working women was a flagrant attack on their economic and political rights. It also breaches our international commitments to uphold women\u2019s rights\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f225b9990b9149c7be81abbd49ab75c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c73390aa3b694b3499b4a0d9cc08808e\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221260ebf2744a44839e886a165b3da262\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree that her Equal Pay Amendment Act breaches the following three fundamental human rights: freedom from gender-based pay discrimination, the right to natural justice, and the right to fair legal process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f225b9990b9149c7be81abbd49ab75c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214eee22680ec419e8cd79f180813b57b\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: No. The acting Attorney-General considered the bill and found it was consistent with our New Zealand Bill of Rights Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ace4d19f5d54e38ae49a10e616ee918\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b9d7951744240569e55387728ca5953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6f74c8f14634932945c8aa35e685213\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266e4bd23647b4699abfec115cf09de55\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: One more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2d17c7933f64890a756402d6c1870a8\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. If she is truly committed to denouncing sex-based discrimination in the workplace, why have five unions taken the Government to court over her changes to pay equity laws, might she say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f225b9990b9149c7be81abbd49ab75c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279f0a026411d4dbe8fee2967f61454ff\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m not responsible for the unions, unfortunately for our people in the Opposition\u2014that could be quite fun. The difficulty here is I\u2019m only responsible for the legislation that underpins the Equal Pay Act, not the unions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b9d7951744240569e55387728ca5953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228193385b1de84002af7d4f3e45a30178\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Minister, when Pay Equity Aotearoa approached the United Nations\u00A0(UN), which country did they say they were from?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f225b9990b9149c7be81abbd49ab75c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb59f6f8cc9a43c98f38a4d679ea03e1\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: I reiterate, I\u2019m not responsible for the unions or any representation to the UN.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcda26c6438f40569dc45f21f23502f5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mariameno Kapa-Kingi\u2014[Interruption]\u2014and no other voices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224234247335fe456db6aebd6b92228b0a\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Can she explain why the Government has chosen to spend millions of dollars fighting w\u0101hine workers in court when that money could have been spent on delivering pay equity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f225b9990b9149c7be81abbd49ab75c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3ed537024ce4b68911c534ccc45ce67\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Government hasn\u2019t chosen to do that. I don\u2019t believe there is a case at the High Court yet. I believe that there are members of unions who have suggested to media they may take a court case, but I\u2019m not of the opinion, or have been led to the opinion, that that has happened yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268d56d0ac2c548b7ae6844c5864bebe6\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister accept responsibility for what Dame Judy McGregor has called \u201Cthe most significant roll back of women\u2019s rights in over a generation\u201D; if so, will she commit to righting this wrong by repealing her Equal Pay Amendment Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f225b9990b9149c7be81abbd49ab75c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a70eb45a11442f69a854a83f0e2c3e3\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: No, because there\u2019s something that many members of this House continue to fail to recognise: the Equal Pay Act stays; pay equity stays. There is still a process for equal pay and pay equity. This Government is committed to finding and stamping out sex-based discrimination, and the processes put in place by this Government will allow that to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221f6df29e2055400a93802aa6591ad1cf\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022 data-id=\u00229e0465e8db414185b0a8d7e0f61a6e5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e0465e8db414185b0a8d7e0f61a6e5b\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What announcements has she made regarding lifting educational achievement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022 data-id=\u002276de7aadd44b463fb780ada5a7fb6979\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276de7aadd44b463fb780ada5a7fb6979\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Today, I announced our writing action plan to supercharge writing achievement and better support young people. The latest curriculum insights and progress study data, collected in term 4 2024, provides a baseline snapshot of achievement prior to the introduction of our education reform programme this year. It shows that 24 percent of year 8 students are at expectation to experience success at high school in writing. Parents know this Government has established a clear pattern of responding to data with comprehensive plans, like the literacy guarantee so children can learn to read, maths action plans so they can do maths, and, today, we\u2019ve launched our Make It Write action plan to lift writing achievement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254c7756dd0bb47f289f4388cbdc3933c\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: How will she support students who need additional help with their writing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229846325c17ec4eafa4f3cead52134272\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Our education reforms are already under way in literacy and numeracy, especially with literacy starting this year with the new curriculum, and structured literacy. In addition to this, we are introducing a suite of targeted initiatives to help students accelerate their learning in writing. We\u2019re doing this with a new writing acceleration tool which will help support 120,000 students in years 6 to 8. From term 1 next year, the tool will support teachers to accelerate students\u2019 progress through regular opportunities to practise and refine their skills. We can see from the data that intervention is needed, surgically, at years 6 to 8 for students who need extra help and who do not have the full benefit of our education reforms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9d19b7dd05d40f5b1e11b584a582ad4\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: How will she support schools with implementing structured literacy approaches?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0df3f0d6a924702ae6e8dec4a31bf40\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Many students are arriving at high school without the literacy skills they need to succeed. Teachers have been calling for training in structured literacy to help kids catch up, because this isn\u2019t a Government prepared to sit by and watch while kids get left behind. We\u2019re funding training\u2014announcing today\u2014for a structured literacy intervention teacher in every intermediate and secondary school, for professional learning and development for those teachers in structured literacy. The training will be tailored for older students and extends on what is already available for those teaching in years 0 to 6. The teachers will be able to learn through in-person workshops and ongoing coaching over 12 months. A huge thankyou to Lifting Literacy Aotearoa for proposing the policy and for being such strong advocates for structured literacy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ea192f38fef4150818cccefd6f882de\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: What else has she announced as part of the writing action plan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a0557466c104ddfb1b909a920191de4\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: One of the strongest indicators of reading capability is handwriting. When a child can write fluently, they don\u2019t have to think about forming their letters; they\u2019re freed up to think more about what they want to write. To support this, we are providing new handwriting teacher guidance to support explicit teaching from years 0 to 8, and this aligns with our refreshed English knowledge-rich curriculum. It is a fully updated evidence-based resource that reflects the latest research in classroom practice. Every student deserves the chance to succeed at school and beyond, and our education reforms are helping make sure that every student has that chance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022528134adfa6c4ba1a72e2cdf9c07bd9e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca21d5270d824114ba3640d0dd6c0f89\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: To the Minister of Education, can she give the House any updates as to\u2014after her announcements\u2014what\u2019s been the response by the Labour Party Opposition spokesperson on education?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3c898402f2b4f5f94d66ff85a9716fc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. She has no responsibility for anything that anyone says other than herself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022528134adfa6c4ba1a72e2cdf9c07bd9e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022294c90b67f0b4bfb8f5f853b66fd870e\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. It\u2019s a matter of some significance, and I\u2019m asking for the Minister\u2019s response. I\u2019m not asking her to talk on behalf of the Opposition. Surely, she\u2019s capable of owning her own response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b5bab76100a4cba81bb94373893783f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and the member also knows that it\u2019s contrary to Standing Orders to use question time to design a question designed to attack the Opposition, and that\u2019s, I think, where we were heading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002295a526fadc864b81a7cc3744c4d3e9f7\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7aa3943d4084b5c8e6d720d745bdadb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7aa3943d4084b5c8e6d720d745bdadb\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: M\u0101l\u014D e lelei, Mr Speaker. Does she stand by all her statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022 data-id=\u0022b18e01f90bb9417083d585f8e3d19cb3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b18e01f90bb9417083d585f8e3d19cb3\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E In context, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225095c158aa8d436a8f194ba9da7ffc68\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: How can she stand by her statement about the Cook Strait ferries that \u201CI\u2019ve delivered\u201D when she has spent $671 million and has delivered nothing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022552a533ff8d8496aa5093b6b1aadd2c3\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Because even after including the costs associated with cancelling Labour\u2019s failed iReX project, this Government is going to deliver a safe, reliable service for far less than Labour\u2019s bloated project would have cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231ead4893acc474e9873cdec9133addd\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: How can she stand by her statement that the additional 16,000 unemployed people \u201Cshouldn\u2019t take it personally\u201D when there are reports of 1,000 people applying for one job?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e6012a4bfbe4bdd9c4031ecfb2cf509\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Because, as was canvassed extensively in the House last week in the other auditionee for the finance role Ginny Andersen\u2019s questions, the statement that I made was simply to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022339a36c00f73455b843461f1e45d6b80\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. Stop and start the question again without the little barb in there. I wasn\u2019t referring to Barb over here either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229aba909da7147c59006da782b794551\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Because, as my statement in its full context made clear, my point was that those people who have lost their jobs shouldn\u2019t take it as a reflection on their own abilities; it is a reflection of an economy which is shedding jobs at a lower rate than was forecast prior to the election under the previous Government\u2019s policies, an economy that is recovering from an extended downturn after a period of very high inflation and high interest rates. My message to those people that I shared in the statement, in its full context, is that the Government is working hard every day to ensure there are more job opportunities in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b9d7951744240569e55387728ca5953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f8758eb31bb4ad2933a8d0505b44914\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Minister, of the $671 million mentioned by the questioner, is she aware that $424 million\u2014that\u2019s $424 million\u2014had already been wasted on Project iReX before this Government even came into power, and that despite all that extraordinary expense, we will save the taxpayer billions with our ferry solution?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022688660c348dd4d0d8ee19f5fec32463c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Nah, it\u2019s just a lie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250a2cace9ae545b0ba8da14afd067494\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, stop right there. OK. You\u2019re trying to make a point. The point is not very well made, and I will\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022540fbbc31f4f4ed8a9767fcbf8b76c1a\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: I thought it was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250929d25412c414a9ba1d71b0a5669e8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you might think it is, but it\u2019s not a good time to be interrupting. I will refer to Speakers\u2019 Rulings quite harshly if it continues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba285d3271f34712904bca2c8bf77b30\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The Rt Hon Winston Peters\u2019 questions contained an assertion in them, which he has objected to earlier. It is our contention that the assertion in that question is a lie. There is no difference in saying that to the assertion that he made before that something I had asserted was a lie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b9d7951744240569e55387728ca5953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d11151e45c744803af4dd7e7af1d84da\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, I am happy to refute that allegation that what I\u2019m questioning is based on a lie, because we can itemise\u2014with particularity, to the last cent\u2014the $471 million they spent before we even got the job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db680174fdcd49018b049ff2421bb9c6\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: That was a point badly made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dc1a31f98994d16a99676ed2fa42ca4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I think I\u2019ve said what I\u2019ve said on this, and I think I\u2019d ask members to show some restraint in what they might offer by way of interjections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224412f413e2464912850f765631a83c6b\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I understand that to be correct. We won\u2019t take responsibility for the mess we inherited with Project iReX. We do take responsibility for cleaning up that mess. It\u2019s the putting right that counts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cfa0315ad2f4786bbfbc360b53c046d\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: How can she stand by her statement that \u201CNational will take action to get food prices under control\u201D when food prices have increased 5 percent overall, butter is up 42\u00A0percent, beef is up 25 percent, and milk is up 16 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef6b38351e15427d85ed64d18af2c786\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Because the facts make it clear that our action to get food prices under control has resulted in food price inflation reducing from its high in June 2023 of 12.3 percent down considerably to 5 percent in the latest update, after a period in which, for many, many quarters, from March 2022 to December 2023, the rate of food price inflation was far higher than it currently is. We have had success in bringing inflation, and indeed food-price inflation, down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b70e9a8342484f5381008333f5bd20fb\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Why does she stand by her statement that an average income household with young children will be better off up to $250 a fortnight when she can\u2019t find a single family that received the full $250?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc333795cd814763a8a509e3066a2ea2\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Because rather than just scoring political points, I think about the 60,000 families who, as a consequence of the FamilyBoost policy, have received additional income to their households. I think of the Uber driver who stopped me outside Parliament to say to me, \u201CNicola, can I have a photo? The FamilyBoost policy has made an extraordinary difference to my family.\u201D I care more about the difference we are making to him and his family than your barb. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254f2e909216e415ba333b29117f93e00\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right, that is the last unruly outburst we\u2019ll have today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f309a72d3114e8886ec417e2610e56d\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Why should Kiwis believe her when she can\u2019t deliver ferries, can\u2019t deliver jobs, can\u2019t deliver lower food costs, and can\u2019t find a single family who has received the full $250?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022233ca54a61b8475e9394ea4b5cecf7d8\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Because on our watch, inflation is down, interest rates are down, growth is returning, and we are working very hard to make the difference to the New Zealanders who we understand have been through an extremely difficult economic period, who we feel very deeply for, and who are the reason why we are pursuing policies to make this economy far, far stronger. We regret the recklessness of the previous administration, but we are working very hard to clean it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b9d7951744240569e55387728ca5953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe51ebc0cb974f0f9d2f6eb7998a442e\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to table an article of 15 February 2024, where, at a select committee where Arena Williams was in attendance, KiwiRail told the Labour Party precisely the figure that I gave\u2014about their expenditure before this present Government even took office\u2014on that matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaa82beae43b46aab632a6d7dbee9968\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204e1a0251b844d198d59d42d807d252b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. This is great news for the Opposition. It\u2019s now in order for us to seek leave to table articles, is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8e57f8cf3654de891aa9d322e5c924f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I probably should have thought a bit more about that, you\u2019re quite right. But it wasn\u2019t an article; it was actually a commentary to a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3c5d03c4ea1405bb21e50f460cf37ce\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: He said article. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efcf6903ec844f4189f5d3e1a5bdbdfc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s enough. I take the point, but the moment has passed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fdecdada411c4d01ac4fe20d16be4cfb\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Internal Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cd5db2f655ea454cb2415423b8c65bea\u0022 data-id=\u00226c4143ed29e8469fb80a8edd623936e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd5db2f655ea454cb2415423b8c65bea\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c4143ed29e8469fb80a8edd623936e8\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Internal Affairs: What increased efficiencies has she seen across the Department of Internal Affairs? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f225b9990b9149c7be81abbd49ab75c8\u0022 data-id=\u00223805cd986a214f6ea6181e6b28ce7ec7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f225b9990b9149c7be81abbd49ab75c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223805cd986a214f6ea6181e6b28ce7ec7\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I have seen some fantastic news that the number of people waiting for an outcome of their citizenship by grant application is at a fiveyear low, and the department is now picking up applications from just two months ago, compared to 13 months when I first started as the Minister. While application numbers have remained relatively constant over the past year, the department has made a big push to clear the backlog and has increased efficiency through cross-skilling staff and improving processes. I\u2019ve also seen the department change to use English first in its logo and communications, at a low cost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd5db2f655ea454cb2415423b8c65bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298f0db509cc34fa9ad2e42351d424d7a\u0022\u003EDr Parmjeet Parmar\u003C/span\u003E: How many people are currently waiting\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233ce86f24ccd4b67a753eeb005dd29e5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on. Start again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd5db2f655ea454cb2415423b8c65bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272f18766c488431999bddaca0994e565\u0022\u003EDr Parmjeet Parmar\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. How many people are currently waiting for citizenship by grant? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f225b9990b9149c7be81abbd49ab75c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b169a970070470a921c41e685cca6ac\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: Currently, there are just over 12,700 people waiting for a decision on their citizenship application, down from a high point of 37,690 in April 2022\u2014a 66\u00A0percent reduction. These are not just numbers; these are individuals who contribute to our economy and our community. I\u2019m sure the department\u2019s rapid improvement in efficiency will be welcomed by those who wish to gain New Zealand citizenship and call themselves Kiwis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd5db2f655ea454cb2415423b8c65bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca49b7abf03c42139c9912ba2400b634\u0022\u003EDr Parmjeet Parmar\u003C/span\u003E: What other efficiencies has she seen from the Department of Internal Affairs? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f225b9990b9149c7be81abbd49ab75c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1320ab1e800407790a47e6d78d4a00b\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve instructed the department to use English first in its logo and communications to the public to make it easier for people to engage with the department. I also made it clear that this should not come at a large cost or use of staff time, to be respectful of taxpayer money, and I\u2019m pleased that the department has completed its rebrand for less than $1,000 and very little staff time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd5db2f655ea454cb2415423b8c65bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229121c86a81ae450493a686ca29ab7693\u0022\u003EDr Parmjeet Parmar\u003C/span\u003E: What further efficiencies does she expect to see in the Department of Internal Affairs? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f225b9990b9149c7be81abbd49ab75c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f52a8efbde9d42499c92e00ccf18196e\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: I am continuing to work with the department to identify areas of efficiency, including how the National Library and Archives New Zealand can better work together to share resources, minimise duplication, and reduce cost. Getting value for taxpayer money while maintaining a good standard of service is one of my top priorities for the internal affairs portfolio. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c5f51b3b9bee4a2dbeb8ffaed373a4be\u0022\u003ETabling of Documents\u2014Leave Not Put\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022 data-id=\u002291d9775e0d6f407c9a7b70e3bc9ea9f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291d9775e0d6f407c9a7b70e3bc9ea9f9\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thank you, sir. I seek leave to table a document which shows Christopher Luxon is the least popular Prime Minister in 30 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u002211795770ec454fe2885fd079a3de2d1e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211795770ec454fe2885fd079a3de2d1e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, given the pleas made before, I\u2019d have to ask: is that a publicly available document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022703c80f91af0449c984cf10d7d41bdf6\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t think it had to be, sir.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u00224c8eab145d224af29115d600dd8156f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c8eab145d224af29115d600dd8156f6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I just made it clear: I made a mistake; it does have to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e4b58babb9a4b3abde100f34b32fbd7\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, so point of order. If you\u2019re now conceding, sir, that you made a mistake, how then can you say that the motion is passed? Shouldn\u2019t the question be put again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u0022a636c81bd03f4b379935758098492194\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a636c81bd03f4b379935758098492194\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, I said the motion was agreed, and once I\u2019ve done that, it moves on. There\u2019s a flow to these things. You can disrupt the House all you like; I\u2019m not changing my mind. If you can tell me your document is not publicly available, then it can obviously have the leave put. [Interruption] No, no, you\u2019re missing the point. It\u2019s about your document now. It\u2019s publicly available?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b30541d8e44f497f8fbfd19f32f7b6ec\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022615badcfe9a344e0a48320787a4e0bda\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Good, well, stop trifling in my direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224072fb9ca5814b2fa7353259f6801647\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a50ae9bd99a344aa9969c01a15eaf970\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a50ae9bd99a344aa9969c01a15eaf970\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E E tautoko ana ia i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f06dfabc6d82426c93d011e6e861cb2f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, hang on. There was a conversation going on over here that shouldn\u2019t be. Please start your question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6cb3e8dc6194c4c9d214a6ff0780752\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6cb3e8dc6194c4c9d214a6ff0780752\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: E tautoko ana ia i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero me ng\u0101 mahi katoa a t\u014Dna K\u0101wanatanga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003E[Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca3796c678384595a83e094202669c1d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca3796c678384595a83e094202669c1d\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e38b15526471400c8628860b23640606\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree that all rangatahi should be able to grow up in a stable and supported home, and, if so, what is he doing to help the over 50 percent of homeless people under the age of 25?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4771a75e50f4916aa0a76a9aa8468b3\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, this is why this Government is proud of the record that it\u2019s building in housing. We are doing everything we can to make housing more affordable. It starts with the planning laws to actually enable the supply of more houses to be built. It goes to the rental market, where we actually have rents down $5 a week compared to $180. It goes to the social and the State house wait-list, which is down 6,000 people. It goes to the emergency housing accommodation, where 2,134 kids are now in warm, dry homes. That\u2019s a good outcome. There\u2019s always more to do, but we\u2019ve got a good housing team here working very hard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc1cc49727a74ca6a617bd1d8d607cff\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think that emergency housing rejections increasing by 386\u00A0percent in the last year is contributing to increasing rates of homelessness, with young people leaving care or custody finding it increasingly difficult to access emergency accommodation and living rough on the streets instead?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f218713e89a34e23a548eda350d233c5\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as that member would understand in her former role as the Minister for homelessness\u2014where people without shelter increased 37 percent despite a billion dollars being spent on emergency housing\u2014homelessness is something that no Kiwi wants to see. It\u2019s an incredibly difficult and complex issue that needs to be resolved. People often have complex needs. That is why this Government makes aside $550 million worth of support to organisations to support people with complex needs, and that\u2019s why the Ministry of Social Development services are available, and it\u2019s also why the Ministers are looking at what more they can do to make any tweaks to support people who are in that situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b4a2b5fea3748aa89fa593ffd65ce46\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Will he commit to a fast release fund to support community organisations responding to the crisis our tamariki and rangatahi are facing, with a focus on prioritising investment into alternative models to motel-based emergency housing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7c15237d0954c1d94472968c5f9cc31\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I said, this Government\u2019s record on emergency housing has been very impressive in terms of the way the work has been undertaken, the way that we have moved children out of motel accommodation into warm, dry houses, after a Labour legacy of housing which was abysmal. But again, the Minister is talking to people in the sector and is working with them and is open for any tweaks that we can make to support people in homeless situations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261b0d30aec09463daddd171cf72b7064\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: What is his response to M\u0101hera Maihi, chief executive of M\u0101 Te Huruhuru, who observed, \u201CThere are currently no strategies or policies to support rangatahi in transitioning from temporary accommodation into permanent housing, leaving a gap many fall through.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c6f463cedaf4b199c3d3100a3d792ac\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve explained to the member before, there has been good work on reducing the State house wait-list, there has been good work on reducing people in emergency housing, and the Ministers are open for any further tweaks that they can make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286d349ab3f834d8284b673e236d298c8\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: What does he say to the rangatahi who have lost count of how many friends have died while experiencing homelessness, some being described as \u201Cfull of life and potential, but they died without a safe and stable home.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8e71badf3324b689452253560aad105\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s an incredibly tragic situation. I just say it is not something to be politicised. This is a Government that is fixing up a failed legacy on housing for homeownership, for the rental market, and for the State and social housing market, and as I\u2019ve said before, Ministers are working with stakeholders in the sector to see what tweaks they can make as well. But to take 2,124 children out of motels\u2014which a Labour-Green Government was quite happy to leave them in\u2014it\u2019s good progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022528134adfa6c4ba1a72e2cdf9c07bd9e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233cbb7ae33e649cfa799021d1a45b68e\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Standing Order 390, \u201CContent of questions\u201D\u2014how can that possibly have passed muster with you to have deliberately exploited, for shallow political gain, the death, maybe there otherwise, and then attributed that as a responsibility of the Government? That is not consistent with Standing Order 390.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228642e59e61f040979af440cb338c483e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019d suggest you get hold of the Hansard afterwards, because the way I heard it, it was a statement of fact or of a circumstance that existed and a question about what the Prime Minister thought of it, and what he was doing about it. If you can\u2019t ask a question around that, there would be very few questions that could ever be asked in the House. I know that that is a concern for some of your colleagues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e89762b17bcb4fff8ee2a90c815571ad\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that 50 percent of people on the social housing register need a one-bedroom unit, but only around 12 percent of K\u0101inga Ora\u2019s stock is one-bedroom, and the Government has recently changed the funding settings to make sure that the Government is commissioning and building more one-bedroom units to help those who need a house?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212f29f9e233249b786bd183add4501d7\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Again, that is exactly the situation. It\u2019s a function of a previous Government that didn\u2019t understand the people it\u2019s trying to help that led to a four-fold increase\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5f8c377155c42b39128b9a3dbf0ca9e\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. It seems almost every question time we have to go through the same thing. This was a question from their own side. The answer was given immediately. He then went on to provide his own opinion and commentary on what the previous Government did. It shouldn\u2019t be allowed. If we want to maintain\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b5c24da5834416d9a6c0d97bc38ff72\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry\u2014sit down. Because I\u2019m pretty much over this. The reality is, and I\u2019ve said it to this House a number of times, a Government can refer to situations that they have taken over and that they are dealing with. That is not unreasonable. The question itself was totally in order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280d7547b11aa4c66a72ae642c69ffc38\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Sir, I wasn\u2019t disputing the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228472cb13753d48ba9a43c839d3f4b575\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I realise that, and I\u2019ve just told you the answer is in order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022747e2b1756d94cd3a35aeaf07500f643\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Well, in that case, may I respectfully ask that you reflect on that\u2014maybe check the Hansard. That was not a reflection of what the Government has, as a matter of fact, inherited; it was the Prime Minister\u2019s opinion and a description of what the previous Government did\u2014the very thing you have told them not to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe04318f42cf47a18942ee5cbaded124\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: With all due respect, he started his answer with \u201CYes, I can confirm\u201D or words to that effect, but I will look at the Hansard and I will come back to the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002268da0635d9324b0f929cb597f03b29cb\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022333cbe863aa64ae7816c10ddcdfe265e\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc06b44ce8054ed09dbbd97275231c76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022333cbe863aa64ae7816c10ddcdfe265e\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc06b44ce8054ed09dbbd97275231c76\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: M\u0101l\u014D e lelei, Mr Speaker. Does he stand by all his actions in preparing the health system for winter 2025?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022 data-id=\u0022a13acdf8a2974889a0f3380514ea6279\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a13acdf8a2974889a0f3380514ea6279\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY (Acting Minister of Health)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. That is why we now have more doctors and nurses employed at Health New Zealand since coming into Government and why we brought back the health target for 95 percent of patients to be admitted, discharged, or transferred from an emergency department within six hours. This was a critical step after performance had fallen sharply between the years 2017-2018 and 2023-2024, dropping from 89.2 percent to 67.5 percent.  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022333cbe863aa64ae7816c10ddcdfe265e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232ae14ef12f047ed89bfefeb06916ffd\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen any reports that M\u0101ori and people from high-deprivation neighbourhoods have a higher rate of hospital admissions for heart disease, and does he agree that these admissions are preventable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225505f169c8c146939dd1a0c4ed3df369\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, there has been pressure on the emergency departments for a range of issues. It is wintertime, and that\u2019s why we\u2019ve made our expectation very clear to Health New Zealand that they have winter-preparedness plans in place to address surge capacity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022333cbe863aa64ae7816c10ddcdfe265e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef723385a4b341db910ad04c78906604\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the cost of general practitioner visits to diagnose and treat heart disease higher under his Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1b6e3e7ebe7454ca2427d44eb326dab\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what we do know is, sadly, too many Kiwis can\u2019t get to their GPs because books were closed or it took too long, so that\u2019s why we\u2019ve invested heavily into our GPs, not only to open up books to ensure that people can now be seen 24/7\u2014digitally online\u2014but we\u2019ve also capped the co-payment at 3 percent to ensure that it is affordable for all Kiwis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022333cbe863aa64ae7816c10ddcdfe265e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221479920f2e2d4d0695db528e7f17e1a5\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: When 1,500 people were treated in the corridor of Middlemore Hospital in a single month, how many were there because they couldn\u2019t afford an early GP visit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022674cbfbd6d924541833321bd9ccedd76\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: There will be a range of reasons why people turn up to the emergency department. The questioner is right: we need to ensure that we get primary care right; we need to open that up\u2014that is not only Monday to Friday, 9 to 5, but also after hours. This Government has invested significantly into after-hours and telehealth\u2014in fact, a record extra $16.68 billion over three Budgets\u2014to address that issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f8d5a8c826eb4144bb9eef2c3963f74f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Building and Construction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d55838378b164c92b0f96e10305f379e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d55838378b164c92b0f96e10305f379e\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Building and Construction: What recent announcement has the Government made about the building consent system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u0022862e40df0b20433bb1d9101d5719da89\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022862e40df0b20433bb1d9101d5719da89\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday, we announced the biggest change to our building consent system since the Building Act came into force in 2004. First, we\u2019re putting responsibility for bad building work where it belongs by scrapping the current joint and several liability model and replacing it with proportionate liability. Second, we will remove regulatory barriers, which will support New Zealand\u2019s 66 separate council building consent authorities to voluntarily consolidate and join up their functions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229859d074539b46408e977edb6431176e\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the system need to change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8781b341be3472d8edab6fa4aef1129\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Councils are currently understandably hesitant to sign off building work that Kiwis desperately need. This is because they can be left carrying the can for the full cost of building defects, even when they are not responsible to that extent. Ratepayers pay twice: once through slow, inefficient consenting and again when councils cover for cowboy builders who\u2019ve ridden off into the sunset, saddling the ratepayer with the bill. With the 66 different building consent authorities, we have that many different interpretations of the single building code. Builders face needless delays, and modular home builders hit barriers when they cross a regional line. The system is broken currently. We will fix it and get more homes built.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7107f4930db4807aaa5bc9881ebe096\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: Will homeowners still be protected under the new system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225766677efb1f4bc1af2ecdc09bcdfee7\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Protecting homeowners must always come first. We\u2019re backing the shift by exploring consumer protections like home warranty schemes, which are mandatory in Australian states, and professional indemnity insurance for high-risk professions. We\u2019re cracking down on cowboys by giving licensing boards more teeth, creating a new licence class for wet areas, and toughening penalties for those who cut corners. My colleague the Hon Scott Simpson is leading work to tackle phoenixing, where dodgy operators shut one company one day and then reopen the next under a different name. Importantly, people are less likely to do shoddy work in the first instance if they know that they\u2019ll end up bearing the cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8a5b5c8f680451b8f7c2f42e943cc3f\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has the Minister received about this announcement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227491be66574642cc83e2d4bf5d2e0894\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: The feedback has been clear and overwhelmingly positive. I was very pleased to discuss this early today at a function in the House attended by a number of parliamentary colleagues with the New Zealand Chinese Building Industry Association, a few of whose members are still here. Local Government New Zealand, meanwhile, said that the changes will have \u201Can instant and positive impact on housing growth; councils will be in a better position to consent more efficiently, with less legal risk borne by local government\u2014and therefore \u2026 ratepayers.\u201D The Building Officials Institute of New Zealand, meanwhile, called the reforms \u201Ca win for ratepayers, homeowners, investors, and the wider economy.\u201D Finally, the New Zealand Certified Builders described them as \u201Cthe most significant change for the building industry in a generation, a long time coming, and welcomed by industry.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a57c0dab4e040cfbbb70945dc6fa1c2\u0022\u003ECameron Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: How does this announcement help fulfil the National-ACT coalition agreement for building consents, and what does this announcement mean for tradies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226001e296b4c44c33950ecb09428a603b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for the question, and I acknowledge that the New Zealand ACT coalition agreement contains an item around changing liability settings, reflecting ACT Party policy going into the last election. The policy and, indeed, the coalition agreement was around exploring allowing builders to opt out of needing a building consent if they were to have long-term insurance for the building work. This announcement is a key step in that right direction, putting more accountability on the individual tradesperson and increasing the uptake of insurance products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002212d9b066cd644542b7cd06b40ef81cab\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Public Service\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbfad59bb9bd44a5aa56ae39ed288229\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbfad59bb9bd44a5aa56ae39ed288229\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Public Service: Does she stand by her statement about public sector industrial action that \u201Cthere\u2019s going to be a lot of options that we\u2019re looking at as a government\u201D; if so, what specific options is the Government considering?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022448113e8de8741b8a7d5bfbd4d79d626\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa0c5a06aa594376bfb622d4daaf604b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022448113e8de8741b8a7d5bfbd4d79d626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa0c5a06aa594376bfb622d4daaf604b\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister for the Public Service):\u003C/span\u003E The answer is yes. The Government has a duty to all New Zealanders to ensure our critical public services\u2014like the hospitals and schools that they rely on every day\u2014will not be unnecessarily disrupted. We are looking for ways to improve the bargaining system, because the right to strike is important, but so is the right for students to learn and for patients to access the healthcare they need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022129e40d01c5b49ebbf225a8fb41ccb7e\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Will she rule out altering or diminishing teachers\u2019 right to strike?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022448113e8de8741b8a7d5bfbd4d79d626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246f3febe94ab4d92a52672a5f0921608\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I certainly haven\u2019t been considering altering or diminishing the right to strike. I have, however, suggested that it\u2019s always good, if you\u2019re going to be bargaining, to be at the bargaining table, not organising a marketing campaign for a strike that\u2019s unnecessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f04253ee8f5044a0a83a74872424e638\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Will she, then, rule out altering or diminishing nurses\u2019 or any public sector worker\u2019s right to strike?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022448113e8de8741b8a7d5bfbd4d79d626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242d6e166f0f8471881baa95924e92c14\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I think I\u2019ve made it very clear that we\u2019re looking at how we can strengthen the bargaining system so that people might have better options available before racing off to strike, such as, for instance, mediation or any other sorts of facilitated bargaining. I think most people would understand that the people who are hurt the most in these situations are often quite vulnerable people\u2014either children, or they are patients in the healthcare system. I am not actually ruling out things, but I am saying that nobody is considering removing the right to strike.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022849249a24aa344eb86a540968be0adf2\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Has she requested or received any advice from the Public Service Commission or any other agency regarding compulsory arbitration for teachers, nurses, or firefighters?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022448113e8de8741b8a7d5bfbd4d79d626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8855c7824a14d799b1a4ab322157976\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member is giving me all these new ideas today! I don\u2019t think I have actually asked for that, but I\u2019m always happy to take her ideas and consider them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0cea159293e40bab099b39d4636cca4\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: How can she say that bargaining requires genuine engagement when, during a period of bargaining, she refuses to rule out measures that would limit the ability to take strike action?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022448113e8de8741b8a7d5bfbd4d79d626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fde0440be2f49b7b697f1c64b5b5d93\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I think I have pretty much said I am not looking to rule out strike action at all. I\u2019m not sure quite what she\u2019s talking about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec7369868ac449a09c2f27cfd8d974d5\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Why do appointees to Crown boards deserve an up to 80 percent pay rise but teachers struggling with the cost of living get a 1 percent pay offer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022448113e8de8741b8a7d5bfbd4d79d626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274f6f220d62a4a0696c4a75f78c75385\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, of course, it\u2019s a framework based on the fact that very few people are qualified to do the role of Crown board entity directors or chairs and the fact that some of these people are paid less than $30,000 for undertaking enormous work on behalf of the taxpayers of New Zealand and are responsible, in some cases, for multimillions of dollars\u2014hundreds of millions, even billions\u2014of dollars of taxpayer funds. I actually think it\u2019s a matter that we do\u2014and we\u2019re competing with the private sector, so these are all issues. It\u2019s sort of unfair to equate one position with that of others, but I do think that they\u2019re not actually related.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002208663f12a6b347a282ebd14a50c2bc8a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022 data-id=\u002250a21e69dc6547afa16dfc4bc4bb6dc3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250a21e69dc6547afa16dfc4bc4bb6dc3\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: E tautoko ana ia i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero me ng\u0101 mahi katoa a t\u014Dna K\u0101wanatanga? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E[Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022 data-id=\u00225093df221a08442781f284dff91f1f65\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225093df221a08442781f284dff91f1f65\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277e61d93056344088f3cbb338e1577f6\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister aware which of his Government\u2019s decisions came into effect in August 2024 which have resulted in the decline of emergency housing applications rising from 4 percent to 32 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228da05f8836b94df48fa04a5dc1b7c30b\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: What I am aware of is that we have moved 2,124 children out of damp, dank motels into warm, dry houses, and, of course, that\u2019s a good thing because it means kids have housing security, and they can attend schools and get good medical treatment on the basis of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbbd4529a018476d80af332a796add54\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that under his Government\u2019s decisions, the recorded number of New Zealanders sleeping rough in Auckland alone has nearly doubled from 426 in September 2024 to 809 in May 2025, as Auckland Council reports?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225477580463ba42aab464ba209cfd426c\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as the member will be aware, our homeless data is not great. No New Zealander likes seeing people in a homeless situation. That is why our Government is talking to the stakeholders and open to making tweaks if we can help support people in homeless situations, but, as the member would understand, from the previous Labour-Greens Government\u2014where homelessness went up 34 percent despite a billion dollars being spent on emergency housing\u2014these are not simple issues. They are complex, and they are often people who have very complex needs that need proper support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290f5d6d6bc2e43f2a01b0f181dcdadb0\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: When will the Government reverse its decisions to tighten eligibility criteria for emergency housing, which has evidentially seen an explosion in homelessness across every community in this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d2a928964d643ea84ec6ba005526d58\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s a Government that\u2019s taken 6,000 people off the State social housing wait-list after it increased four times. It\u2019s a Government that has lowered rents by $5 a week rather than up $180 a week. It\u2019s a Government that\u2019s reinventing our planning laws so that we can get more houses built and more affordably, and it\u2019s a Government that\u2019s open to looking at what else we can do around homelessness to support people in that situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c04d73a590724dc18a7a759580061eaf\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister aware of any person\u2019s life circumstances that have ever been improved by them being denied emergency housing and being forced to sleep on the street?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270815d94d81041b8865a031bd35fea54\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, this is a Government that spends $550 million with a range of service organisations to support people in difficult circumstances. It\u2019s a Government that has a Ministry of Social Development agency that is actually available and will always offer support to people who need it. But it is a Government that is fixing the failed housing legacy of the previous Greens-Labour Government. This is a Government that can stand proud to say we are building more houses and making it easier to do so with planning laws. We have got rents going backwards, if not stable. We have got more people coming off the State house wait-list, which is a good thing, and we have moved 2,124 children out of motel rooms, through Priority One, into warm, dry houses. Yes, we don\u2019t like seeing homelessness\u2014no New Zealander does\u2014and we\u2019re open for further setting changes if we need to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022731b001e3ff04f2bb3a6a3a171ae8fac\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister think of an example of somebody\u2019s life being made better by dependence on Government, and does this Government want something better for the future of New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c9b91e74382406fb141445309d32b17\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s a Government that\u2019s working hard to lift the collective living standards of all New Zealanders, and the way that we are doing that is by making sure our kids have an outstanding education system and by making sure we embrace more science and technology and add value to the products and services we sell the world. More infrastructure, less red and green tape, and more trade and investment\u2014those are the things that will lift our collective living standards and lift incomes for all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4beffe558114d4db892284313ec2084\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: When, if ever, does the Prime Minister intend to respond to my multiple invitations to walk the streets of Auckland Central to meet the people, including the children, who his Government\u2019s decisions have made homeless?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ceef086cb564bfebe6e77786fc4207a\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what\u2019s important is that the Ministers for infrastructure and social housing have been engaging with the sector, and they have said publicly that they are very open to looking at any tweaks that they can make to improve the homeless situation in New Zealand. But I\u2019d just say to the member: when you have 6,000 people that were on a wait-list waiting for a State house and they\u2019re no longer on the wait-list, that is a good thing. When you have rents, having gone up $180 a week, now down $5 a week, that is good progress, and when you have 2,124 kids out of motel rooms and into proper houses, through K\u0101inga Ora or through community housing providers, that\u2019s a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229972271a2dfc4188a295b42e90ae39f5\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that from 2018 to 2023, $1.4 billion was spent by the Government on emergency housing, but homelessness increased?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272869388937548a0a1785ad1f142d9d1\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, there was over a billion dollars spent on emergency housing, and homelessness went up 37 percent. As the previous Greens member who was the Minister for homelessness understands, this is a complex issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224e073e7fb10d4e2c9b409bcd2cedf680\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022 data-id=\u002239f5ccb5885a45c98deeba886c9e15db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239f5ccb5885a45c98deeba886c9e15db\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Transport: What recent announcements has he made about the Pages Road Bridge? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8ad9b4099e34361a03a3c5d6fc93b68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8ad9b4099e34361a03a3c5d6fc93b68\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER (Associate Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, I was pleased to announce that the New Zealand Transport Agency board has endorsed the business case for the $75.4\u00A0million Pages Road Bridge renewal project and approved co-funding from the National Land Transport Fund. The Government will be funding $38.5 million to support the replacement of the Pages Road Bridge. This is an important piece of infrastructure for the people of Christchurch and great news for Christchurch east. I thank all members of Parliament for their strong advocacy for this important infrastructure project. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1e76076a54f4c288b970a76916c0be9\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c860e24ed1514259a00b2308a250f75b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just hang on. All right, now you can start. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297994378a0164326b8c2461c9a0d3598\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Pages Road Bridge need to be replaced? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba865593a30f4370b67859e4a6c1e15f\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER\u003C/span\u003E: The Pages Road Bridge is nearly 100 years old and is approaching its end of life. It carries more than 13,000 vehicles a day and is the main point of access between the New Brighton and Southshore communities and the rest of Christchurch. The bridge was actually last strengthened in 2015 to extend it lifespan and, as a critical evacuation route, the importance of the Pages Road Bridge renewal project was recognised by this Government with its inclusion in the 202427 National Land Transport Programme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286dc92868f4840ed9e885b26b31be4e5\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: What are the next steps for the replacement of the bridge? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e515b241b094c03839ee5bb79764ae4\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER\u003C/span\u003E: Now, this project was the highest-priority capital improvement project for the Christchurch City Council, and until we came into power, no taxpayer funding has been allocated to it. Now that the business case and the co-funding have been approved, the council expects the project to begin construction once consenting is completed, and, under this Government\u2019s reforms, that will happen sooner rather than later. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231f842f8257748a9b10f9a86cf2850aa\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That concludes oral questions. Those who have to leave for other business, please do so quietly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022834b7f0ead29453e8804996c517484b2\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220bd7bc84fd414dd0b93758d749870169\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022 data-id=\u00220d089d2318544af89c5dc02ef2f8c7bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d089d2318544af89c5dc02ef2f8c7bd\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the sitting of the House today be extended into tomorrow morning for the second reading of the Climate Change Response (Emissions Trading Scheme\u2014Forestry Conversion) Amendment Bill, the consideration in committee of the Public Works (Critical Infrastructure) Amendment Bill, the Hauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana Marine Protection Bill, and the Crimes Legislation (Stalking and Harassment) Amendment Bill, the second reading of the Customs (Levies and Other Matters) Amendment Bill and the Crimes (Countering Foreign Interference) Amendment Bill, the third reading of the Privacy Amendment Bill, and the second reading of the Policing (Police Vetting) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022adeb1776c8c0457c8be9cc23448d7607\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227a0a58accfc7432fb1508a3a4066b479\u0022\u003ERegulatory Systems (Transport) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2dfe9dee44a3e8c8f7753a8400196\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022 data-id=\u0022f115cffc1f444972ac4e9e2c96ca2d33\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f115cffc1f444972ac4e9e2c96ca2d33\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER (Associate Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Regulatory Systems (Transport) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Transport and Infrastructure Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003ERegulatory systems bills are funny old things. They kind of sit somewhere between the old statutes amendment bills, which are uncontroversial minor changes to legislation, to your more substantive individual bills, which are maybe somewhat more contested across the House. This one is a bill to update the regulatory systems in the transport space, and it combines a range of work across successive Governments to bring to the House under one omnibus bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003EThe bill does have Business Committee agreement under Standing Order 267 for it to be an omnibus bill, so I look forward to its support across the House, and, of course, it does contain a range of changes proposed under the previous Government. If members look at the regulatory impact statements, they may recognise the names of some of their colleagues across the House who have done work on this as far back as 2021.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003EThese kinds of bills do include wide suites of amendments that don\u2019t warrant individual bills, so it is a good use of the House\u2019s time to bring them together in one regulatory systems bill. Generally, this particular bill makes necessary changes across land transport, rail, and maritime legislation, as well as aviation maritime legislation, to make our transport regulatory system more effective and efficient. This will enable further economic growth by making our lives easier through a variety of important amendments. These amendments are designed to uphold good regulatory practice and ensure that the transport regulatory system is kept fit for purpose while contributing to the Government\u2019s focus on boosting productivity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003EThere are a range of\u2014I think\u2014quite interesting amendments in this bill, and there are a range of others that some may consider dull but worthy, and I\u2019ll traverse a few of those over the next few minutes. One of the key things this bill does is it will keep our transport regulatory system modernised and relevant to a growing digital world. This will include things like amendments to transport legislation to pave the path for digital alternatives to physical licences, which I\u2019ll touch on soon enough. Finally, the bill also provide provides some other amendments around aviation to progress time-sensitive aviation amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003EAs I mentioned previously, the bill does enable a couple of key interesting things. The first one that the House will be interested in is that it enables the framework for digital driver licences to be introduced in New Zealand. Now, to be clear, the bill does not establish digital driver licences; it creates the framework for the ministry and officials to then go away and do the consultative work that we need to undertake to make sure that it is implemented in a proper and considered way. But I think it would interest many members to know that, actually, within our, I guess, legal framework, we already recognise digital driver licences from other States and other jurisdictions; we just don\u2019t have the ability to recognise our own. So this legislation will put in place the mechanism for implementing that, and, as we go through that process later on in the year, Cabinet will make further decisions about how that will roll out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003EI have met with a number of potential providers of these services, one including a meeting with Apple not too long ago, where they showed me prototypes of digital driver licences that other jurisdictions have put in place. It will help achieve the solution of what happens, you know, when we maybe forget our driver\u2019s licence on the way to a visit to the ports, because we\u2019re very interested in port security and we need our driver\u2019s licence to prove our ID, or maybe when we\u2019re going to the local wine bar in Christchurch central and we have to provide our ID to the bouncer, and we pat our pockets and we\u2019ve left our driver\u2019s licence at home because we haven\u2019t driven to town because we\u2019re responsible drivers\u2014we can bring up our digital driver\u2019s licence on our phone and show that to the bouncer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003ENow, it\u2019s important to note that this will be an option. Digital driver licences will not be mandatory. It provides the structure to put it in place, and manual driver licences or physical driver licences will always be available, because we are concerned and considerate of the access and technology issues that do arise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003EAnother thing that this bill does is that it allows us to shift from a paper-based warrant and registration system to a digital one. We all know the situation where you go and you renew your road-user charges or you renew your licence online\u2014and then Rima Nakhle\u2019s got her Suzuki Swift and she\u2019s trying to put the little registration sticker right in the front of the dash and she\u2019s reaching over and it\u2019s hard, and it\u2019s just annoying and it\u2019s just a waste of time. This bill will help modernise that system so that not only will we do away with a paper-based system of indicating whether your registration or your warrant is up to date; we will also be able to eliminate the requirement for notices and fees to be posted out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003EIt might surprise you to know that the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) spent nearly $17\u00A0million a year in March on printing and postage for about 14 million items. This will go a significant way to reducing that time and resource. Again, this will be an option, so it will be an option for you to receive those notices by electronic means. Those who still require it physically and by the post will be able to do so. Progressing these changes supports our Government\u2019s wider digital modernisation objective and delivers better user experiences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003ENext, I want to just touch briefly on some of the civil aviation changes in the bill. The main thing it does is it corrects some drafting errors identified in civil aviation regulations which actually potentially prevent Auckland and Wellington airports from charging users to undertake aerodrome activities. Now, Mr Speaker, you\u2019ll know, as an experienced previous transport Minister, that one of the core functions of an airport is to allow aerodrome activities to be undertaken, and it seems sensible to allow airports to charge for that. This will fix a drafting error\u2014a numbering error\u2014in the regulations that were put forward, and it will implement it retrospectively, so that it will be as though the error never existed in the first instance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003ENext, another thing the bill does is that it ensures that our regulators have effective tools to carry out their functions. For example, it will actually provide the Director of Land Transport powers to respond to emergency and time-critical events such as natural disasters in an appropriate way. Currently, the ability for the director to waive requirements under the Act is restricted, and we saw this under COVID, where there was limited ability for the director to extend the time for warrants or registrations to expire and it actually needed ministerial regulation to do so. Providing that ability for the director to have some flexibility in the system is important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003EAnother thing that bill does is that\u2014members might not know this, but councils, currently, if they are looking to charge people for overstaying in time-limited car parks, they can only charge the maximum allowed; they have no flexibility to charge less than or underneath that maximum set by the Government. This will actually allow councils to still make sure that they penalise people for overstaying the time but be able to do so not charging the maximum\u2014to set their own limits for this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003EOne more thing that this bill does is it provides powers for the New Zealand Transport Agency to proactively close State highways in times of emergency or where there are threats to life or safety. Currently, the NZTA relies on coordinating this with the New Zealand Police. Sometimes, in times of haste and urgency, this can be cumbersome and can create some legal difficulties down the road. This will give the NZTA some more powers to close down highways when it\u2019s needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003EFinally, there are a range of other smaller, minor changes. For example, the bill will allow the Minister of Conservation to exercise functions, duties, and powers under Part 3A of the Maritime Transport Act 1994 in the subantarctic and Kermadec Islands. What does that mean? That means that the conservation Minister can act as though they were the regional unitary authority in those areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003EFinally, the bill does some more work in and around rail to allow the relevant rail investigators to have sufficiently clear roles after a rail incident or accident. Currently, they are reliant on the cooperation of the people involved in the accident. This bill will give them some more powers to retain or secure the site of an incident so that they can undertake the appropriate investigations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003EThis is one of those worthy bills that will have support across the House off to first reading. I think it contains, as I\u2019ve said, some dull but very worthy changes, and also some very interesting and exciting changes for what we can expect in the future of digitisation in this Government. So, with that, I commend the Regulatory Systems (Transport) Amendment Bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022 data-id=\u0022c991a8fa5101424293cf1b00106124e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c991a8fa5101424293cf1b00106124e7\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. M\u0101l\u014D e lelei. I rise on behalf of the Labour Party this afternoon to provide our support for the first reading of the Regulatory Systems (Transport) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EAs the Minister himself has indicated, this is an omnibus bill, and I actually think the example that he has given, in particular the one about the Minister for Conservation exercising particular powers in relation to the Kermadecs and the subantarctic islands, is a good example of why this is an omnibus bill. We do support this bill as a form of technical but useful improvements to modernise our transportation system but, also, to look at reducing inefficiencies where that is able to be the case. While this is a bill that does tidy up some of those technical issues, in itself I don\u2019t think it will be as transformative as perhaps some would like, but I do hope that it will make a difference none the less.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EThe Minister has taken a pick-and-mix approach to selecting some of the aspects of this bill, and I\u2019m going to do the same, actually. I\u2019m going to take some of them that have been identified\u2014and I think they really do indicate the suite of change that is going to be on the agenda, shall we say, of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EThe one that the Minister referred to is around the digitisation of drivers\u2019 licences, and while this won\u2019t provide for this to, effectively, come into effect, it does provide the framework under which it would exist. Of course, the police that we have out and about are very mobile as well, so this would go hand in hand with that opportunity. Of course, the Government needs to meet its own target, which it\u2019s not doing at the moment, around the number of police on the beat, to be able to make this transition. I do hope, on the one hand, that while this might be an empowering form of legislation to make some of those changes, it does not let the Government off the hook when it comes to making sure that they deliver on their promises in that particular space. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EBut the example that the Minister gives around drivers\u2019 licences and, effectively, this bill being able to enable utilisation of digital drivers\u2019 licences is a move in the right direction, particularly within the busyness of life. I think that, as an opportunity, will also make it easier for motorists and licence holders to go about their daily business. Not only does this bill provide for drivers\u2019 licences but other forms of documentation that traditionally is affixed to a motor vehicle in a more physical sense\u2014things like warrants of fitness, certificates of fitness, and the like\u2014so I think that is a good move.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EOne of the additional changes is that it does allow for some forms of infringement notices to be issued electronically. We might think that actually some of them already are issued electronically, but not all of them are. I think it\u2019s important, as this bill progresses through select committee, that we make sure that the information that would be requested by a motorist, or someone who\u2019d be subject to this requirement, is still able to be protected within the confines of privacy considerations. That\u2019s one thing that we will be taking a look at as we continue to look at this through select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EOne of the interesting aspects is the inability, currently, of the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) to close State highways. What this bill does is it gives a provision for the New Zealand Transport Agency to be able to do that, but only when it comes to safety considerations. Now, these are individuals who are well attuned to the way in which our State highway network is able to function and operate, so it makes sense that they are able to do so quickly and efficiently as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that seeks to address some changes in seven pieces of legislation, and one\u2014which I think actually is the oldest one that it\u2019s seeking to change, from 1989\u2014is the Government Roading Powers Act 1989. That\u2019s the one that would seek to give the NZTA the powers that the Minister has explained. But it also would seek to clarify the role that pedestrians, or those who might be classified as pedestrians, are able to utilise in some of the spaces on the roading network. At the moment, and we might not know this, but there are some parts of the roading network that, actually, you\u2019re not able to, as a pedestrian who might be going about\u2014maybe going to a bus stop that is located on a State highway network\u2014actually utilise this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EIn the Labour Party, we do support this bill. We think that it tidies up a number of things. Many of them we were able to commence when we were in Government\u2014and the Minister has acknowledged that this is the work of previous Governments. I look forward to, alongside members of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, receiving submissions on this and seeing where we go. At this stage, I\u2019m very pleased to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022 data-id=\u002293345372b6234006949144b0f279a169\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293345372b6234006949144b0f279a169\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. As the two previous speakers have outlined, this is not a world-changing bill here. This is a lot of tidy-up and modernisation, and for that reason the Green Party will be supporting it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EI did want to speak briefly in my speech to some focuses for the Green Party and respond to a bit of what the Associate Minister of Transport himself said. It is interesting, as my colleague Tangi Utikere just mentioned, about the amendments to the Government Roading Powers Act 1989 and how that Act actually specified that the use of motorways could be restricted. We often see those signs\u2014no pedestrians, no bikes\u2014on bits of the motorway. I think that did reflect that obsession in the second half of the 20th century with building infrastructure just for cars and not recognising other ways that people get around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003ELuckily, we have had some time where we\u2019ve had subsequent transport Ministers of different parties recognising that it\u2019s important to provide infrastructure that enables people to get around, across, and along areas where urban motorways have been built, by foot and by bike. I was able to experience some of that excellent infrastructure, some of which was opened by the Rt Hon John Key, alongside the Grafton Gully Motorway when I and my colleague Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick went to visit the Port of Auckland on Friday. I was able to pick up an e-bike and go almost directly from our office on Cross Street, which is near Karangahape Road, all the way down to the port, almost entirely on separated cycleways\u2014initiated, first, under a National-led Government, and then more have been developed under a Labour-led Government. I think that\u2019s really great, because as long as I\u2019ve been in this country, it\u2019s been the Greens leading on this issue, and I think it does show that the Greens have set the transport agenda in many ways and influenced the infrastructure that is being delivered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EWaka Kotahi is being given broader powers to close parts of the State highway network for safety reasons, and I absolutely support that. I would note, unfortunately, that they\u2019ve had to close bits of the State highway for hours at a time because of dangerous road crashes. Last month, we saw at least four occasions in which people died on bits of the State highway where the speed limit had just been forced back up to 100 kilometres an hour, usually against the wishes of the local community. People in a very short period of time lost their lives, when there had been no crashes, no fatalities, during the time when the speed limits had been lower. Ironically, the Government claimed that raising the speed limits was about economic productivity. But, obviously, when there\u2019s more road crashes, more deaths, more serious injuries, and hours of the State highway being closed due to increased severity of crashes due to higher than safe speed limits for the quality of the road that is there, I think it demonstrates just how completely ridiculous that claim is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EThe Minister claimed in his speech on this bill\u2014and it\u2019s something that the Government of the day often claims\u2014that every little thing they\u2019re doing is to support economic growth or productivity. I highly doubt the changes in this legislation are going to massively increase productivity, sadly. Like, it would be good. I mean, we all want things to be easier. We all want to be able to apply to renew drivers\u2019 licences entirely online, from overseas. That was something I received a lot of correspondence about when I was an Associate Minister, and I think we did take some steps to make that possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EIn terms of the steps that are going to be taken in this bill, I\u2019m sure it will be interesting to see at the select committee if enabling recognition of digital drivers\u2019 licences does result in some convenience for both people working in the public sector and people who are accessing their driver\u2019s licence in that way, using their driver\u2019s licence in that way. However, I don\u2019t think it\u2019s going to be a world groundbreaking increase in productivity from these amendments, as enthusiastic as Minister Meager is to claim that they will be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EThe other thing I found interesting is the changes around parking enforcement fees and making it possible for road controlling authorities to set the parking enforcement fees and that they don\u2019t have to be as high as the maximum. That\u2019s probably really important, because another step needs to be taken to actually increase the maximum, because for many years, councils have not been able to recover their costs from parking and from towing when people are infringing various road rules on local roads. Probably one reason we haven\u2019t been able to increase the maximum is because automatically the maximum becomes the default.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002286c19e2b43f94d2abad14ee9d54e6b80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286c19e2b43f94d2abad14ee9d54e6b80\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of the ACT Party to endorse the Regulatory Systems (Transport) Amendment Bill. As a member of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, along with my colleagues who have just spoken, I welcomed this coming to the committee, because this is about, as the Minister has said, perhaps untying some red tape that\u2019s holding New Zealand back in a way. We\u2019ve got economic growth and transformation on the tongue. We need to get the Government and its red tape out of the way so that New Zealanders can go about, in the same way this Minister has, in a workman-like fashion, identifying issues and solving them for each other so that we can actually get our country moving in the way that needs to be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003ESpeaking of moving, my colleague Simon Court and I have visited businesses across New Zealand, and in this case I\u2019m thinking of one in the Bay of Plenty that uses a defunct rail line. We heard some stories there about the regulatory burden that\u2019s been tied up in red tape to be able to operate on that piece of rail line, and I think that having experiences like that shared with the committee so that we can get in there and untie this red tape that\u2019s holding back entrepreneurial-type Kiwis who are getting out there, trying to create value for each other\u2014if we can untie some of that red tape\u2014that\u2019s how we\u2019re going to get towards that economic growth and transformation that New Zealand seriously needs. I look forward to hearing from New Zealanders with their cases of regulatory reform that\u2019s needed in this space. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6004401a04040848689cadb646a6a7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6004401a04040848689cadb646a6a7e\u0022\u003EDr DAVID WILSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E The Regulatory Systems (Transport) Amendment Bill is common sense and modernisation. Our transport system is huge, and small inconsistencies, gaps, or antiquated requirements can undermine efficiency and safety. As has been mentioned by the Minister and our member from across the aisle, it\u2019s wide ranging in its powers, namely from the subantarctic islands through to the Kermadecs. New Zealand First has been about safety, sovereignty, and sensible regulation all along. We\u2019re about removing unnecessary red tape while continuing to keep communities safe on the roads, on the sea, and in the air. The bill does both. It allows regulators to act quickly where there is a safety issue but simplifies things for good New Zealanders by removing unnecessary paperwork. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022\u003EWe support this bill because it improves safety, modernises our transport infrastructure, and ensures that regulators can enforce protection of life without red tape. This is the sort of practical, nononsense legislation that New Zealand First is happy to support. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022 data-id=\u0022df2b8765509d44fba65373cf9c03956e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df2b8765509d44fba65373cf9c03956e\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E M\u014Drena. Thank you, Mr Speaker. From what we can tell, this bill aims to modernise Aotearoa\u2019s transport system, making it more efficient, effective, and less prone to failure. I did have a little time on the committee at one point when I first started my new job here, so it\u2019s good to see that things like this are happening and are made good use of. It also manages to do so without necessarily disenfranchising any group, including M\u0101ori. By equipping regulations with better tools, reducing compliance costs, and enabling digital alternatives like electronic licences and notices, the system is set to function more smoothly and meet the needs of modern Aotearoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022\u003EKey changes, such as giving the New Zealand Transport Agency more powers around road safety, strengthening enforcement of transport services licences, and enabling digital driving licences are initiatives that Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori can support\u2014I can see my colleague smiling on the left; I know he\u2019s logged straight into this conversation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022\u003EThese updates will help build a safer and more responsive system for all of our communities. This bill also enhances investigation powers in rail and maritime sectors, removes outdated rules, and increases fines to create more consistency across different transport modes. In aviation, it fixes longstanding legal errors and clarifies how airports can set charges for services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022\u003EOverall, it\u2019s a bit of a tidy-up legislation. It addresses gaps, and, as my colleague on the left said, it\u2019s more common sense, which isn\u2019t often so common around here at times, I find.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022\u003EThe only final thing I wanted to say about this is that twice I\u2019ve heard Kermadecs mentioned. That\u2019s in my piece of the world, up in the very Far North. At any time in which that name is mentioned and there is something happening up there, then please talk to Te Aup\u014Duri. We know what we\u2019re talking about. That\u2019s our piece of water and our piece of dirt. With all of this, tautoko m\u0101rika [absolutely support], we support the bill. Thank you so much, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00227907c3e9bc96434a92c8f2966a211204\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227907c3e9bc96434a92c8f2966a211204\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E There are times where you realise \u201CThis is why I came to Parliament.\u201D This is not really one of those times. It is dull but worthy, and that\u2019s the reality of our parliamentary democracy. Not everything changes lives dramatically, but they are incremental improvements that make a difference in small but impactful ways, as my colleague Rima Nakhle said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a pleasure to rise and support this bill as a member of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee\u2014it\u2019s a great committee\u2014and we will look forward to receiving submissions on this. I don\u2019t think there will be a huge amount of submissions. With that, I just want to say that it\u2019s all about creating efficiency and improving things. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022 data-id=\u002297b75c64d97b462b9d52fb3bfa5cac96\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297b75c64d97b462b9d52fb3bfa5cac96\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, there\u2019s a bit of enthusiasm from the other side of the House on this regulatory systems bill. Honestly, sometimes you do read these bills and you think that, well, they\u2019re a bit dry, but this one has something for everyone. There is the law of the sea in this bill, there is a prototype of holographic\u2014possibly\u2014drivers\u2019 licences, and there are changes to the Railways Act and to the Civil Aviation Act. This is actually a very interesting bill, and I think it was slightly undersold by Dan Bidois, the last speaker from the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003EIn fact, there is something that should be very interesting to that member, because of the changes that are put in place by the New Zealand Transport Agency allowing it to close various roads. He will know that in his electorate he has a very significant piece of highway, which is the Auckland Harbour Bridge, which crosses over into his electorate, and one of the things that this bill does is it actually looks at when particular roads can have pedestrianised access. I\u2019m sure there are many members of the public in his constituency that will be interested to know whether the Harbour Bridge, which is closed to pedestrians, will be able to be utilised\u2014as it sometimes is\u2014in the same fashion under this piece of legislation. So I would encourage him to have a closer look at this bill and see if there isn\u2019t something in there that he can get excited about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003ENow, as my colleague Tangi Utikere has said, this is a bill that is supported by the Labour Party, and many regulatory systems bills are, in fact, done in good faith, really, across the House to make our legal system and our laws work better. In fact, this one, as the Associate Minister of Transport has said, corrects some errors that were in regulations, and it also makes a number of changes that not only make the law better but also, actually, probably allow it to be more futureproofed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003EOne of the main examples that the Minister looked at was digital drivers\u2019 licences. This is something that, allegedly, is used in other jurisdictions, though it\u2019s not something that I\u2019ve seen before. I have lived in another country and have had the particular different piece of plastic that they had at that time, but I\u2019m interested to know that that is the case and, in fact, what a prototype would be. I would have assumed that it was just a picture, perhaps, on your phone, a bit like your Air New Zealand boarding pass. I look forward to finding out exactly what is meant by that, and, hopefully, that can mean that we carry fewer pieces of plastic around in our pockets. I would be interested to know if this is consistent with the rules around cellphone use, if that is the place that you are going to be carrying your digital driver\u2019s licence, because otherwise we\u2019d be in a conundrum, wouldn\u2019t we, if we were stopped by the police and asked to show our digital driver\u2019s licence and it was carried on our phone, and, in fact, we\u2019re not, technically, allowed to utilise our phone when we are in charge of a motor vehicle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003EHopefully, those things can be worked out. I\u2019m sure that the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, who will be looking at this bill, will make sure that these issues are ironed out so that there is absolute clarity for members of the public, because we also wouldn\u2019t want people to be looking at their phone and have a photo of them taken by the police, and then have them say, \u201COh, I was just checking my driver\u2019s licence.\u201D I mean, that would also be a potentially unwanted pitfall of this legislation if it was not gone through with sufficient clarity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003EThere are other interesting things in this. As I said, there aren\u2019t many regulatory systems bills where you get to talk about the law of the sea, and there are some changes in here which, I think, we would say on this side of the House that we are very supportive of. That\u2019s in relation to the alignment of domestic maritime legislation with the Maritime Labour Convention, and we know that the good people at Maritime New Zealand do an absolutely tremendous job of ensuring our safety and security and of looking after our maritime safety. These are actually very, very good provisions that are being imported into this piece of legislation, so we\u2019re very, very supportive of that. Obviously, that\u2019s a really technical area that requires consideration, and I\u2019m sure that the committee will look at that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003EThere are other things that I found of interest in this. There\u2019s, obviously, specific provisions in relation to Auckland and Wellington. For those of us in those areas, there are issues that have been corrected around the use of the airspace so that fees can be charged for that, as the Minister touched on, but also, I understand, there are other sections in this that also look at things like parking and specific provisions in relation to those particular airports. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003ESo there really is something for everyone in this, and also really interesting changes that designate when a vehicle can be called a motor vehicle. These are rhetorical questions that we never thought we would ask ourselves, but these are, in fact, answered by this regulatory systems bill, which I commend to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022 data-id=\u0022c715379cd6d14017a00c4202c4721150\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c715379cd6d14017a00c4202c4721150\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E I rise in support of the Regulatory Systems (Transport) Amendment Bill\u2014a critical step to us modernising and streamlining New Zealand\u2019s transport legislation. This bill makes critical, targeted updates to transport law. This bill involves a broad range of legislation, including the amendment of 12 Acts and the set of 29 regulations across our land, maritime, and aviation system. One of the key amendments is to enable the future use of the digital driving licence, an important step toward modernising how we interact with transport services. These small but important changes help ensure our transport sector stays responsive and future-ready. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203b3a8aad696414a8eb7f03fa4e88c59\u0022 data-id=\u0022d222c968cc3044db9f9de29567888950\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203b3a8aad696414a8eb7f03fa4e88c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d222c968cc3044db9f9de29567888950\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m very surprised that members of the National Party, who love their roads so much, aren\u2019t really getting into this, because it\u2019s an interesting piece of legislation. In fact, you know, they\u2019re skimming over the top, but there\u2019s actually quite a lot of work for the select committee to do here. I\u2019m just going to point to one very particular thing and then one more general thing, and hope that they\u2019ll address it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203b3a8aad696414a8eb7f03fa4e88c59\u0022\u003EThe first is the service of notices, and it\u2019s something that I\u2019m a little concerned about, because if we look at clause 29, which amends section 91B of the Land Transport Act, which is titled \u201CWays in which warning notice or driver\u2019s licence stop order or details of related fines must be served\u201D, it says that it can now be served \u201Cby the chief executive of the Ministry of Justice sending an electronic notification to the defendant that states where the defendant can access the notice, order, or notice of details electronically\u201D\u2014it\u2019s a link, right; that\u2019s a link, for those who didn\u2019t work that out. \u201CElectronic notification\u201D doesn\u2019t actually say what that is. That just means a notification that\u2019s sent by electronic means. So that could be an email, a text message, or, if you\u2019re Chris Bishop, a Snapchat message, and that actually is worth looking into.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203b3a8aad696414a8eb7f03fa4e88c59\u0022\u003EBut it gets much more detailed than that, because if we go down to subclause (5), it tells you when service is deemed to have occurred. That\u2019s the thing: if I hand you a notice, a piece of paper, the moment of service is really clear\u2014it\u2019s when you take it from me\u2014but if it\u2019s electronic, it\u2019s actually much more complicated, because there is a period of time where neither you nor I have it. In fact, whilst it\u2019s rare, there are instances\u2014plenty of instances\u2014where an electronic notification can be sent by me and never received by you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226866f65ba19c4f04a036d1189598f533\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right\u2014didn\u2019t have that problem with fax machines.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203b3a8aad696414a8eb7f03fa4e88c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230e1e38b3ca04452bd4e5c9443433f4b\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: No, you didn\u2019t have that problem with fax machines\u2014we\u2019re not going backwards, though, Camilla Belich. But new subsection (5) of the amended section will now provide that \u201Cthe notice, order, [etc.] is served at the time the electronic communication containing the notification [etc.] first enters an information system outside of the control of the originator\u201D. Now, in fact, not everyone is aware of this, but when you send an email, it often will go through several information systems. It will leave the Parliament server\u2014that\u2019s the system in our control\u2014and it will then enter, often, one or more servers before it reaches the service or the computer system under the control of the recipient, and anything can go wrong in that chain. But this says that as long as you\u2019ve sent it, it\u2019s sufficient to prove that the electronic communication containing the notification was properly addressed and sent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203b3a8aad696414a8eb7f03fa4e88c59\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve got a problem here, because this is infringement fines. In fact, it doesn\u2019t matter whether you\u2019ve actually received the email or text message or not, as long as it was properly addressed and sent. You bear the risk of a failure of the information system. Can you have a look at that when you get there, Mr Utikere, in select committee? That would be good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203b3a8aad696414a8eb7f03fa4e88c59\u0022\u003EThe other thing is this: what we don\u2019t realise is that particularly in the transport sector, there are quite a lot of powers of inspectors. You don\u2019t often think\u2014[Bell rung] Oh, is it that time already?\u2014about railway inspectors. But if you look at clause 110, which inserts a whole lot of sections\u201472A, B, C, and so on\u2014it gives quite sweeping powers of inspection and search: the power to take samples and other objects and things; the power to enter homes and marae. Now, they\u2019re largely consistent with the Search and Surveillance Act, but I would ask that the select committee do kind of run the ruler over those, because, obviously, transport accident investigation\u2019s important, but we just do need to make sure that there\u2019s no overstepping of the mark. I know the select committee will be diligent and will look at that, but I certainly would like them to look at that, and I know that there\u2019s similar provisions elsewhere in respect of other transport modes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203b3a8aad696414a8eb7f03fa4e88c59\u0022\u003EA good bill overall, but a couple of little gnarly things to look at. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad80132e5ef24f8ab281b922b836dca8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad80132e5ef24f8ab281b922b836dca8\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E Thanks, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to join my colleagues in support of the Regulatory Systems (Transport) Amendment Bill in this first reading. In a nutshell, in the interests of productivity and efficiency, which this Government is always aiming towards, this bill proposes sensible, practical changes which, essentially, streamline some day-to-day activities, particularly through digitisation. I look forward to us passing it in that final third reading, but for now, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022f764abbdb2a64ecfa00d283ff9ebce0a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f764abbdb2a64ecfa00d283ff9ebce0a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Regulatory Systems (Transport) Amendment Bill be considered by the Transport and Infrastructure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Transport and Infrastructure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225f98d2f65a94448ea7e5cd36b27a5f81\u0022\u003ELocal Government (Water Services) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225f98d2f65a94448ea7e5cd36b27a5f81\u0022\u003ELocal Government (Water Services) (Repeals and Amendments) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f8e6b4dfc36648ebaebe37c4c4f15a6f\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022 data-id=\u0022f988a8b229224c1cba2b104493d43f1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f988a8b229224c1cba2b104493d43f1f\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Minister of Customs)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Local Government: I present a legislative statement on the bills divided from the Local Government (Water Services) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258c606c21308488b9acb8e86b03cb111\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Those legislative statements are published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022def2e53159da443ab4184c6b9dce9cc2\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Local Government (Water Services) Bill and the Local Government (Water Services) (Repeals and Amendments) Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003EI have the privilege of leading this final step to complete the legislative framework for New Zealand\u2019s water services delivery system. These bills implement Local Water Done Well, the Government\u2019s plan to address challenges with New Zealand\u2019s water services. Many of the changes we are making are urgently required. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003ESimply put, chronic under-investment and the lack of sustainable management of local government water services has come home to roost. Around the country, communities are facing significant challenges that have been repeatedly ignored or not adequately addressed. Poor or badly managed water services cause economic harm to businesses and inhibit growth. Failure of water services can make people ill or even worse. This is a basic necessity to get right and has been put on the backburner for too long. Inadequate maintenance of existing services and the failure to grow new services is costing us. Much-needed new housing development is being slowed or even halted by lack of capacity in water service networks. Ratepayers are facing unsustainable cost increases. We cannot afford to let these trends continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003EThese bills will enable sustainable growth to meet the needs of our communities and businesses. These bills give local government the responsibility and the tools to address the challenges facing their communities and to more cost-effectively deliver water services. I want to keep repeating that Local Water Done Well will maintain local ownership, choice, and decision-making. That gives councils the best shot at identifying their most pressing problems and the right approach to solving them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003EThe Local Government (Water Services) Bill provides a range of service delivery models, including new water organisations, that will be able to operate at scale for councils to determine how best to meet local needs. The bill sets appropriate governance and accountability mechanisms and maintains requirements for public ownership. Thanks to the flexible options in this bill, councils will be able to choose the best structure for financially sustainable water services that meet regulatory requirements and local needs. Current indications are that many councils will enter into multi-council arrangements and tailor these arrangements to their own local needs and preferences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003EThrough the preliminary arrangements Act, several councils have already submitted their water services delivery plans, providing certainty to their communities and their structure for delivery, going forward. Last month, I was pleased to see Hamilton City Council and Waikato District Council\u2019s plan accepted by the Secretary for Local Government. This will establish a new multicouncil, council-controlled organisation. This plan will meet local needs and scale efficiencies. I\u2019m heartened to see that all the plans accepted to date have shown a clear willingness to consider forming larger regional models over time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s be clear about something: the success of Local Water Done Well has nothing to do with how many water entities we have; it is about ensuring councils are using a model which is financially sustainable and meets all regulatory requirements so we can have safe, reliable water services for all Kiwis. These bills are clear that the water services need to be financially sustainable. Development and maintenance must be improved, but costs must be met fairly. Growth should pay for growth, and appropriate levels of borrowing will allow costs to be spread equitably between current and future ratepayers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003EIt also bears repeating that the arrangement with the Local Government Funding Agency (LGFA), struck last year by the Government, is a game-changer for local government water services. The arrangements give access to an enhanced level of finance from LGFA to water organisations that are financially supported by their parent council. This financing is crucial for many councils to support investment in water infrastructure over long periods of time rather than funding through rates. This approach is prudent and consistent with regulated public utilities around the world. This fulfils our promise to enable more investment in infrastructure, sooner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003EThese bills introduce economic regulation for water services to provide appropriate oversight and accountability to councils and consumers that water services are being well managed. Economic regulation will initially apply to drinking water supplies and waste-water services, whether these are delivered by councils or new water organisations. Economic regulation will promote quality services that meet New Zealand\u2019s expectations at appropriate prices to consumers. We have looked hard at the regulatory requirements to strip out excessive and unnecessary costs. We are ensuring that compliance requirements are at the level needed to achieve safe and effective water services. Regulation must be cost-effective and proportionate to the risks that need to be managed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003EThis Government made a promise on Going for Housing Growth, and that is why enabling growth is a key objective for all water service providers. There are clearer processes for them to work collaboratively with developers, landowners, and water service users to deliver and maintain necessary services. All parties will have greater certainty about decision making, and clear pathways to resolve disagreements. With these bills, councils will be required to publish detailed information about existing and planned water services infrastructure. This will enable a more collaborative approach between councils and developers, and time and cost will be reduced by a simplified approval process for connections. Councils will be able to set up new tools, such as infringement fines, which will allow quick and effective responses to damaging or risky behaviours such as dumping rubbish in water networks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003EThe bill provides much-needed clarity in stormwater management about who is responsible for managing various types of risks and hazards, especially work to reduce risks or prevent risks from happening. As you can see, long-term thinking is needed to set a strategic and integrated approach for water services. Many of these basics were not being achieved under the status quo. New Zealanders don\u2019t want to worry about water gone wrong, unsafe drinking water, inadequate stormwater management, or failing pipes and infrastructure. This reform sets up a future where investment in these critical services means they won\u2019t have to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003EThe progress we are making with these bills is yet another key achievement in our work to address the challenges faced by New Zealanders\u2019 water services. In less than two years of Local Water Done Well, we have curbed water charges for Aucklanders through the Auckland Council - led Watercare solution. We have also secured better access to low-cost, long-term finance for water services from the Local Government Funding Agency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003ESuccessfully establishing the right regulatory framework for water services through these bills is yet another huge milestone on the journey to the water services system that New Zealanders need and deserve. I now look forward to supporting local government to complete the work that lies ahead, using the new structure and tools to achieve what they are designed to do for the benefit of all. I commend these bills to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b11f8230755c47d3ac8f7db304b8ef68\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022 data-id=\u00220df5628e37814a4491a9d42015b651d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220df5628e37814a4491a9d42015b651d9\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The time has finally come. The time has finally come that this bill\u2014this Government\u2019s bill\u2014confirms and cements for households all around our country and in communities that they are to bear higher prices because of this Government\u2019s \u201CLocal Water Done Badly\u201D form of water reform. Higher prices. What we\u2019ve just heard from that Government Minister, the Hon Casey Costello, is a very clear indication and message to households all around the country that it is coming your way\u2014it is coming your way, the increase in costs that households can expect to receive. It\u2019s on that basis and the lack of foresight and planning and execution on the part of this Government when it comes to water reform that we opposed these bills in their divided form, in their entirety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EThis opportunity for water reform really does miss a beat. It is a missed opportunity in any sense to signal to households around New Zealand that what could be delivered was something that was affordable, something that was equitable, and something that was sustainable, with a view to the long term. That is not something that this Government has sought to do in its approach to changing how water reform will exist in this country. That\u2019s why it is deeply, deeply disturbing that they have held true to just continue down this path of what is a very one-track mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EWhat this bill does is it imposes on councils\u2014and, therefore, on households\u2014burdens, without any adequate financial support. There is no adequate financial support for the changes that this Government is seeking to implement to support households through what is a difficult time now and what will be a difficult time in the future under these reforms initiated by this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EIt also seeks to undermine any form of investment when it comes to long-form investment or longterm investment in water infrastructure. It weakens the environmental protections and the environmental aspects that people who came to select committee, who wanted to have their say on this and wanted to be heard\u2014have been ignored by this Government. Today is a shameful day in that particular sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EWe believe that this bill will lead to higher costs for ratepayers, it will lead to a fragmented form of delivery of water services around this country, and it actually is\u2014it won\u2019t lead to; it is\u2014a failure to address some fundamental issues when it comes to long-term infrastructure needs for water services here in Aotearoa New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EThis bill actually incentivises one thing: it incentivises councils not to work with each other\u2014it incentivises councils not to work with each other. It moves away from something that could have been centralised and something where real efficiencies could have actually been achieved and gained. Instead, actually, what we\u2019re seeing are councils all around this country opt out of a regional opportunity, or the other side of that is that they are left as orphan councils, because they have no other opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a3529067e584034ab94e1af6594398f\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: We said that would happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d33085f02264a0a94e8a4a16e65e781\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: We did say that would happen, and that is what is coming true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EI know that there are members opposite\u2014I know there are members all around this House\u2014as they talk to councils either in their local area or, as I have been, meet with councils all around the country\u2014we know and they know that there are councils that have been forced into this position because their hands have been tied behind their backs and there are no other options for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EWe cannot, we will not, support what is inadequate levels of resourcing when it comes to water services in this country. This is something that is actually not just subpar, it is actually dangerous, because it is setting up for the future something that is not going to be able to be achieved. We know that because we just need to look at reporting today. I mean, the reporting that\u2019s come out today bandies around a few figures. The Minister said in her contribution earlier that ratepayers are facing unsustainable costs. Well, there is a truth\u2014there is an absolute truth\u2014because ratepayers in this country are facing unsustainable costs under this \u201CLocal Water Done Badly\u201D model. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EIf we look at costs and water bills in Christchurch, going up $900 a year; Hamilton\u2014and I know there\u2019s a member here who represents that community\u2014$1,700 a year; Nelson, $750; Dunedin, $1,200; Wellington possibly going from an extra $2,100 to $4,800 a year. These are significant prices that this Government is forcing on to households to bear that cost. They will try and blind everyone and say, \u201CNo, no. This is the best option that\u2019s out\u2014the best option that\u2019s possible.\u201D It is far from the truth when it comes to reality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003ESo it is a sad day that we are here voting on a bill that is going to deliver more costs to communities. While Christopher Luxon and this Government promised to make things better, he and his Government are making things worse. By pursuing this one-track mind in terms of water reform around this country for communities, he and his Government are simply indicating that they know best and they are simply expecting communities to fail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EI have been travelling around the country and I have been meeting with councils, listening to the concerns, listening to the struggles that they are facing. While we hear from the Government that there\u2019s a sense of happiness from the Government that these water delivery service plans are going to be filed by 3 September and we hear from the Minister today that everything\u2019s on track, why is it then that the Government is seeking to issue letters to councils to encourage them to undertake some form of regional collaboration? Well, I\u2019ll tell you why: it\u2019s because the very form of reform that this Government has is not incentivising any form of regional collaboration. It\u2019s actually saying to councils, \u201CYou need to go back to the drawing board and think about how you\u2019re going to deliver this, but we\u2019re not going to really encourage you to work alongside other communities and other councils. You\u2019re not going to get any of the regional efficiencies that those gains would bring.\u201D That\u2019s deeply, deeply disturbing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EWe heard through the select committee from councils all around the country as to what this reform package would mean for them. Yet, what we have in front of us are two bills that do nothing but complete\u2014I think Rachel Brooking referred to it as\u2014a horror trilogy in terms of water reform from this Government. That is very sad indeed, particularly where there are issues around credit ratings and where there are issues around councils that are faced with borrowing headroom or the lack of it. What we are going to see is a deficit when it comes to meeting the needs of water service infrastructure for communities all around the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EHouseholds deserve much better from the Government. This is a Government that is failing them in this regard. This is a Government that is saying to households, \u201CWe don\u2019t care about the challenges that you face at the moment. We don\u2019t care that, yes, there is a cost of living crisis. What we do care about is forcing you to dig deeper into your pockets to meet costs that we don\u2019t actually know what those costs would be, but we\u2019re not prepared to incentivise any regional collaboration.\u201D That is shameful. That is absolutely shameful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EOne of the things throughout this water reform that\u2019s been deeply concerning is hearing from councils and communities, for example, about the last-minute levy that was slapped on them as a result of the regulator\u2019s work under this Government. Councils had gone through planning and consultative processes, and then to, basically, say, \u201CWell, you\u2019re going to have to pay this significant amount of money\u2014this levy that\u2019s coming your way\u2014without even knowing about that.\u201D, I think is just yet another way that signifies how serious this Government is about its partnership with the local government sector. I think people can think for themselves around what that particular course of action would look like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EHouseholds will bear an unfortunate cost. While, for example, The Post has reported today just some of those costs, these are costs that will be replicated all around the country\u2014all around the country. The majority of these costs are in the thousands upon thousands of dollars. Yet the Government turns its head when it comes to looking at all the infrastructure needs in the three waters space for affordable water reform when it comes to the long-term approach. All of their data, all of their figures, are actually not looking at a 30-year horizon. It\u2019s simply saying, \u201CHow can we actually incentivise councils to work together? Oh, actually, we won\u2019t do that, because we\u2019re going to say, \u2018You go and do what you like. You be an orphan child if that\u2019s how it ends up for you.\u2019\u00A0\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EThis is not a good piece of legislation. We have continued to oppose this. This will land on households and mean that they will be faced with additional costs that are simply unfair. This could have been avoided, but this Government believes that they know best, and that\u2019s unfortunate. I do not commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022 data-id=\u00227d74e5ddb2354179a3a8dab3b2ec78e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d74e5ddb2354179a3a8dab3b2ec78e6\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Firstly, I want to take a moment to acknowledge how important this issue is, both for our people and for the environment. I want to take a moment on that because it is often\u2014and particularly this week just been, but definitely this sitting block\u2014quite staggering, the extent to which the Government fails to understand the bleeding obvious. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022\u003EThere are Kiwis today who turn on their tap and cannot rely on the drinking water that comes out of it, and they\u2019re nervous about what impact it might have on them, on their kids, or whatever use they want to have with that water. Is it safe to brush their kids\u2019 teeth? Is it not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022\u003EThe same goes with countless experiences in countless estuaries, rivers, and beaches, where it used to be safe to swim, where it used to be safe to fish or gather kai, and over such a long period of time now those ecosystems have been degraded to the extent that the ecosystem is now not only unrecognisable but severely ecologically compromised. These days, who sees seagrasses in their tidal estuaries anymore? They\u2019re extremely rare and they used to be a common occurrence. We used to see so many k\u014Dura or freshwater crayfish in our rivers. We used to not have to think twice about collecting and eating shellfish from our estuaries and beaches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022\u003EThis bill was that opportunity to stop being the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff and to actually move the focus to investment decisions that actually prioritised the health of our communities and the health of our water sources; our access to safe, clean drinking water; and actually waste-water and stormwater solutions that do not unnecessarily harm our health, and we could have done it collectively. Like my colleague Tangi Utikere has just pointed out, there is no incentive in this bill to actually do this collectively so that no community was unfairly burdened with the cost, but, sadly, these are the very areas where this bill absolutely fails.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022\u003EAs disappointing as it was to be part of the select committee process in terms of seeing how rushed this bill was, I really want to thank the many submitters who did take the time in those very constrained time line processes to actually have their say. I particularly want to thank the officials as well, who were completely scrambling, at times, to keep up with the demands of this Government and the fact that this bill was really hashed together with very little due diligence and due scrutiny. That is the reality of a bill of this magnitude, with this many implications, so a big thanks to the community and to the officials.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022\u003EIn this, I particularly want to thank the councils, because they\u2019re, essentially, the ones that are forced to grin and bear it while the Government constantly reiterates this misguided, ill-informed myth that the Government is somehow better placed to make decisions that should stay with local government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022\u003ENow, from my time on local government\u2014you know, I really miss the constraints of local government, where you were actually forced to talk to community. You were forced to have options that actually looked at the evidence base, and those informed your decisions. It\u2019s so clear that this is now absent from this bill. It\u2019s been particularly clear in the bigger picture of where this bill sits, with the massive overreach that we just had in this last-minute amendment in the resource management bill last week, where the Government introduced the implications by which the Minister for the Environment is now able to gatekeep the decisions that local government would usually be able to make that would have impacts on the quality of the discharges that come out of our waste-water and stormwater systems. It\u2019s just part of that bigger picture of how this bill falls so short in actually meeting New Zealanders\u2019 needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022\u003ENow, as to the flaws of the bill, it\u2019s hugely disappointing to have to relitigate these again and again, but it seems like the Government just does not hear it. So the first part of that: in the initial version of the bill, there was a really sensible objective up front and centre that service providers would actually provide water services that \u201Cdo not have adverse effects on the environment;\u201D, and the Government chose to remove that. They decided that this wasn\u2019t going to be the time where investment in the health of our people and the environment actually came first, and that\u2019s a serious problem. It\u2019s a serious problem because we know that for 60 percent of our waste-water treatment plants, their consents will come up for renewal in the next decade, and 20 percent of those are already operating on expired consents. There\u2019s going to be this massive investment decision time frame in the next few years by these water service providers. This was our opportunity to make sure that those decisions actually reflected community needs and desires.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022\u003EThe other aspect where this Government has completely and utterly failed to grasp, again, the bleeding obvious is that these water service providers will operate here in Aotearoa New Zealand. What that means is that iwi and hap\u016B have ongoing recognised\u2014and also, unfortunately, unrecognised\u2014tino rangatiratanga over fresh water. So when you\u2019re carrying out significant reform that impacts fresh water in such a critical way, the most basic thing that the Government could do as a Te Tiriti partner is actually to recognise and provide for a place where mana whenua M\u0101ori have a place in the formation of these water entities. Now, thank goodness for the very basic changes that did happen at the Finance and Expenditure Committee that strengthened some provisions and protections for Treaty settlements, particularly Ng\u0101ti Rangi and Te Ture Whaimana. Yes, some councils will understand their partnership roles, but others, as we\u2019re seeing right now during the local government campaign, dive right into this racist rhetoric around M\u0101ori wards and even basic representation of iwi and hap\u016B in these decisions, and they are excluding M\u0101ori. That means that we will not get to a proper solution when it comes to these decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022\u003EThe ultimate failure in this bill is this ill-thought-out set of single standards when it comes to waste water and stormwater. I wanted to quote Selwyn District Council\u2019s submission on this, because they really summed it up: \u201CThese standards effectively remove the ability for council to impose community-informed rules or standards even where those rules are more restrictive due to local environmental needs. The council is concerned there will be a lack of oversight and that centrally designed and nationally applicable standards may lead to worse environmental outcomes due to a lack of appreciation for local conditions, issues, or nuances.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022\u003ENow, another example that was given of this is in \u014Ctautahi Christchurch with the waste-water treatment plant there. I wonder how the coastal communities there would react if they knew that when the city waste-water treatment plant comes up for consent renewal, the limits of bacterial counts from the waste-water treatment plant will rise from 1,000 coliform units to 5,000 coliform units up to 40,000 units, and they\u2019ll be paying for the privilege of that. They will be absolutely devastated and disgusted. To add further insult to injury with that, this bill prohibits public or even limited notification so that the community actually gets their say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022\u003EThis bill is yet another nail in the coffin of deliberate dismantling of freshwater protections. Kiwis needed the Government to actually get this right. They\u2019ve failed to do so, and Te P\u0101ti K\u0101k\u0101riki absolutely do not support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc69659e33b24eaab9308e7e09cbeb48\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc69659e33b24eaab9308e7e09cbeb48\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This bill is two bills, reforming the way local government and water services interact. What it is doing is far from what the Opposition has been accusing it of. What it\u2019s doing is addressing an issue that we\u2019ve had for a long time, which are delays and avoidance of infrastructure renewals, refreshments, and making sure that the issues such as leaks or use are being taken into account. We\u2019ve got a problem with people avoiding costs in the future, and the cost of living is an example of that, where people are paying higher inflated costs due to a lack of outcomes for money spent in the past\u2014in the same way that ratepayers are seeing water costs rising, but it\u2019s from decisions made in the past, not this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003EThis bill is maintaining what New Zealanders asked for\u2014that\u2019s local control and ownership of the assets which they have built up and paid for. It\u2019s giving local authorities different options of ways to manage their local water. That will be through in-house delivery, coming up with council-controlled organisations (CCOs), being a sole CCO for their own council or in partnership with other councils\u2014but it\u2019s giving that local control. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard some comments about regulations. One of the things that really needs to be taken into account is the different size and variety of water supplies. You know, if you\u2019re a small rural scheme or a stand-alone domestic scheme supplying a couple of dwellings, you need to be addressed by the regulator with cost-proportionate and risk-proportionate regulations, otherwise it\u2019s going through the roof. That is just some of the things that this bill is doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a bill that needs to be done, because we are seeing issues in our local authorities\u2019 provision of water and taking away of said water once it\u2019s used. The costs have gotten too high. Councils need to be on the ball with their renewals, with their consent pathways coming up, so we don\u2019t end up in a situation where there are consents outstanding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve got Resource Management Act reform coming\u2014and plenty of other things\u2014but in the meantime, this bill is going to address some of those issues in water. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022 data-id=\u00225567666c319d40ae9918c29d50fd6dd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225567666c319d40ae9918c29d50fd6dd4\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to support the Local Government (Water Services) Bill and the Local Government (Water Services) (Repeals and Amendments) Bill. I can\u2019t believe what I\u2019m hearing in the House today. I\u2019ve been hearing that councils across the country aren\u2019t happy with this. I must say, on my journeys across New Zealand\u2014I know my colleagues, as well, travel across and meet all the councils, and they\u2019re giving me a different sign. They\u2019re telling me this legislation is something that they wanted and they advocated for, so I\u2019m very confused by the Opposition saying that the councils are struggling with this piece of legislation. They were struggling with the past legislation from the past Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003EThrough my experience on the Marlborough District Council\u2014in my last term at council\u2014I saw the amount of signs that went up around the community about stopping three waters. There was a community outcry about what the past Government was trying to implement. This here, as we just heard from the last speaker, gives back local control. It gives back local ownership. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003EWhat was so concerning to constituents and ratepayers and councils across this country was that the last Government wanted to give everything away. It was going to be given away to four megaentities. But this is actually giving control. It\u2019s not centralisation; it\u2019s actually giving back to local decision makers. It\u2019s giving back to local councils control over their assets. It\u2019s keeping those assets within the council or within the parent company. That was the major concern with the past legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003ETo this point, you\u2019ve got to look why we are here, and you have to really go back to 2016. You have to go back to Havelock North and what happened there. The event that happened there\u2014with an unconfined aquifer\u2014where people got sick and some people died was tragic, and that\u2019s something that was debated in this House at the time, and there needed to be improvements. Nobody steps away from that. That\u2019s why we\u2019ve got the regulator. Now we\u2019ve got a regulator that is there around controls of standards. But the last Government, in their way of fixing that, threw $1.2 billion down the drain. They didn\u2019t fix a pipe. How many pipes did you fix\u2014$1.2 billion, and you didn\u2019t\u2014and they laugh at us. But having spent $1.2 billion, you walk around Wellington, you walk around our cities, and water is pouring out of the ground. It is unbelievable. Nothing was fixed\u2014$1.2 billion was spent and nothing is fixed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003EThis here is going to give local councils the ability to get on with the job. We have had the legislation with the preliminary arrangements around water service plans that got councils under way doing those plans. It\u2019s given councils the ability to set up whether they\u2019re going to keep water under their own control or through council-controlled organisations. That has all been under way. They are now able to set up the water organisations and, again, keep that in local control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003EI was able to sit on the select committee for this. There was a massive amount of amendments. I don\u2019t shy from that. It is a big piece of legislation. As we see in the House today, the bill\u2019s been split. There is a lot of detail in this, but I do believe it does give certainty. But, really, the major part to this piece of legislation is the risk. We\u2019ve got to look at the risk that is involved and the proportionate response that you have to give. If you look at many councils across the country that are treating water to high standards and waste water to high standards, and then being told that they have to put that to land and spend hundreds of millions of dollars, it makes no sense. Excess costs over standards that are too high are no good for community rates and are no good for actually trying to make betterquality decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard through the legislation about the growth around the development levies. That was well debated and has been changed. I agree with the last speaker, too, around the rural supplies\u2014those under 25 connections and less not actually being involved in this. Communities where I live in the Marlborough Sounds\u2014small communities\u2014were going to face huge costs of having to implement the last piece of legislation that now falls away under here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003EStormwater\u2014that\u2019s rainwater and rainfalls\u2014we don\u2019t have a lot of control over that, but we have clarity in this piece of legislation about who actually has to deal with stormwater. That is the territorial authorities. Isn\u2019t it great to get rid of co-governance from this piece of legislation? Get rid of it. We are about New Zealanders. We are about Kiwis. We do not want takiw\u0101 boundaries, like we had in Marlborough, which was absolutely nonsense. We are about water and where water is falling and looking after communities, and nothing about nonsense, backroom takiw\u0101 boundaries that have nothing to do with water delivery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003EI\u2019m so glad the Opposition is so vocal, because it just shows how bad the last piece of legislation was. New Zealand First is about common sense, and the changes that New Zealand has demanded are in this piece of legislation. New Zealand First is supporting it because it protects public ownership\u2014public ownership\u2014that the Opposition was giving away. It will enhance accountability, and it puts communities back at the heart of water management. I\u2019m very proud, and it\u2019s a tremendous day. It\u2019s not the day that the Opposition is saying; it\u2019s a tremendous day that this piece of legislation is going to be passed, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u00227d6e0a1a4b9a4359822ef28d590d7fe5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d6e0a1a4b9a4359822ef28d590d7fe5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a five-minute split call\u2014Mariameno KapaKingi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e89eeffd412e4d3f8d1951e921ca1990\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e89eeffd412e4d3f8d1951e921ca1990\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. Yeah, I don\u2019t know how common sense that sounded on the left for me, but I do know that in the time of when three waters was a thing, 14 iwi groups and hap\u016B groups came together under Waipunarangi and Te Tai Tokerau and made very good decisions. I know this lot gets concerned about this thing called \u201Cco-governance\u201D, but whatever you decide to call it, it just comes down to some more racist thinking. I find it interesting when the member on the left decides to use M\u0101ori words like takiw\u0101\u2014no other side of that does he use M\u0101ori words in any other way, but suddenly, when he wants to damn an idea, he uses our reo, te reo M\u0101ori. I don\u2019t know whether it\u2019s his reo, but certainly he uses it in such an obvious and ridiculous, racist way. Man, I would suggest that he read some more. So, yeah, I\u2019m going to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268319f45fea243b39c903ad1bffdb467\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Just, now, with the racist call, where it pertains to an individual, please be careful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022735848c521c9445ba8010fab15ac376f\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: Yes\u2014generalise it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6bdcb3ff60d4937909ad048c493a23e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, it was general\u2014I\u2019ll take it as not pertaining to the individual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022080081526df24b12bc73adbfc0092f31\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: It does not. It\u2019s a general comment to a number of pieces of policy being rammed through in the last little while.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022\u003EThis bill revokes the ability of M\u0101ori to maintain equal decision-making power alongside local government. Who, in their madness, would want that? What else do you call that? We know what it\u2019s called. The fact that you might not own up to it\u2014but here we go. The groups that were set up at that time\u2014and it was such a short time, but, you know, we were doing some blinkin\u2019 good things. We were thinking about it in a very wh\u0101nau and hap\u016B way. We had mokopuna in the centre of all the things that impact on Tai Tokerau, but not just Tai Tokerau. I can talk about that, because I was part of that group and part of the ideas that just rained and were smart\u2014very mokopuna-centric\u2014and we knew what we were doing. Why did we know? We knew better than local governments, actually. Why did we know? Because we walk those areas, we understand all of the waterways, we understand our whenua, we understand our settings better than anybody.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022\u003EBut, suddenly, some smart\u2014well, no, not smart; some blind-minded thinking person decides that they know better than M\u0101ori about M\u0101ori land, about M\u0101ori whenua, about M\u0101ori resources, about M\u0101ori mokopuna and M\u0101ori children and marae. They think that they know better. What a nutty thing to do. What a dangerous thing to do. It\u2019s no different to our M\u0101ori wards\u2014ridiculous behaviour that\u2019s going on now, to say, \u201CNo, no, we don\u2019t need any of that M\u0101ori stuff. We don\u2019t need any of that takiw\u0101 stuff.\u201D, like I just heard from the left. We all know what you\u2019re saying. You are saying: \u201CIf it\u2019s M\u0101ori, that means its Treaty; that means it has no place in this coalition.\u201D What a dangerous and bad thing to do. You will suffer by your thinking and your decisions. You will suffer by it. Bring on 2026.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022\u003ESo, by ignoring the role of M\u0101ori in the delivery of water services, this House simply passes the challenge on to the next generation\u2014good on you. Removing these provisions is not progress; it is reform, it is regression, and it is deeply and only racist. Just own up and say it\u2014just say it. Just, like, yeah, OK, then we\u2019ll know e pono ana koe i w\u0101u k\u014Drero [you are true to your word]. \u201CWe can\u2019t help ourselves; we think we know better. We are all New Zealanders\u2014we\u2019re not M\u0101oris. We\u2019re all New Zealanders.\u201D, which is code for \u201CWe\u2019re all the same.\u201D, which is really code for \u201CWe\u2019re all that same.\u201D\u2014not my same, because if I said we were all the same, I would honour you with all your M\u0101ori whakapapa. I would honour you with an 1840 thing that gave you permission to live here, for goodness\u2019 sake! Wake up and read the history. You are only here on the basis of our t\u016Bpuna\u2019s grace and kindness, and you are still here on that basis, though the bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cfd9c66d6fd406999548dc4d00cf1ab\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: A lot of \u201Cyou\u201Ds in there; please find another word.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fddb2eb3ded74f81aea02bdfc1378fa6\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: All right then. I\u2019ll generalise it then, yet again. All right, that lot\u2014all right. The bill, in all its thinking and design, ignores, dismisses, forgets how you get to live here\u2014how non-M\u0101ori, how tangata Tiriti get to live here; how tangata moana get to live here, right. One forgets one\u2019s history. I implore you\u2014I implore you\u2014get the education, understand, and understand the grace that M\u0101ori and tangata whenua give to all that live here. What an atrocious piece of work. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u00223c0ecbe7c37f4fc1b8b9c77e643e8550\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c0ecbe7c37f4fc1b8b9c77e643e8550\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the next speaker, to those on my right who are saying, \u201CStick to the bill\u201D, just remember that the previous speaker did bring the issue up; therefore, it became a debating point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247f9ef7beb4b411590f6aa7f595355b0\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: They can\u2019t take it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f283b11996124fc4adae2fee799874a1\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: And no comment on the Speaker\u2019s ruling, please, Mr McAnulty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c5f43fac6814b7ba88bacf1d36261c0\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Fair enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0581409d8944b5cac07ee4b63a21f44\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: No, not fair enough, at all. Stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212d91611b1b346929489c8ba43d4cf35\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcae19b5b0474a7184bf69d41db33380\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I call Celia Wade-Brown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022 data-id=\u0022a543f6816f1d439f93e4c356cb203085\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a543f6816f1d439f93e4c356cb203085\u0022\u003ECELIA WADE-BROWN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. If we turn our minds back to the last throes of the election and the insulting and appalling billboards about the original three waters, I think we can see why we have ended up in an unpleasant and messy place. I\u2019d like to quote from the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, and one might wish that flavours of his political views had continued to today\u2019s National Party, but it would appear not: \u201CThe current Bill not only continues the fragmented approach, but in some respects, doubles down and makes for an even more complex, fragmented and incoherent approach. This is more than unfortunate and highlights again that the initiators of this reform had (and still have) little idea of how the environment is managed.\u201D That, members of the National Party, is from one of your own.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003ENot only will there be higher prices per household, as my colleague Tangi Utikere has mentioned, but also there will be lower standards. Again, Mr Upton calls for some recognition that not all of our receiving waters are the same. He called for the ability for councils to set\u2014or whatever the organisation may be. It may be a council, it may be a council-controlled organisation, it may be a conglomeration\u2014but that they should be able, with the support of their community, to call for higher standards rather than the lowest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003EAlso, this water services bill ignores the long-held knowledge, the m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori, of how water flows, where it runs as ephemeral streams, where aquifers are recharged from, and where iwi wish to continue to collect kai moana. I have been to Takap\u016Bw\u0101hia Marae and heard how hurt they are that they cannot provide kai moana to the manuhiri because of decades of sedimentation and of pollution of the Porirua Harbour. Nothing in this bill solves or even recognises those problems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003EI also believe that this bill in many ways, in its introduction, has been anti-democratic. There were so many amendments brought in at the same time as members of the three coalition parties were trying to shut down debate. Those amendments did not come before select committee. They were not discussed by the councils, the households, the iwi, in any way, shape, or form. In the Governance and Administration Committee recently, we actually quizzed the Office of the Auditor-General on how many years there were zero questions about the quantum of investment in three waters. There were zero challenges to the three-year budget, the 10-year long-term plans, and the 30-year asset management plans, which would be highly appropriate if all of the highfaluting talk about bipartisan infrastructure\u2014if central government had longer-term budgets that we could see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s going to be financially challenging. I noticed today that the Minister of Finance\u2014whatever her ambitions may be; she\u2019s currently the Minister of Finance\u2014is very clear about the ratings that Government received. Well, 18 councils have had their credit ratings downgraded as a direct consequence of this bill. That means that other borrowings will be more expensive for the councils and for their ratepayers. We will be opposing this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c95941eced26453086d170d5995d69fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c95941eced26453086d170d5995d69fd\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E We all remember, only two or three years ago, those signs on every motorway overbridge and farm fence: \u201CStop Three Waters\u201D. The challenge for the Opposition today and their remaining speakers is to commit to bring back three waters. Let\u2019s see if they\u2019ve got the temerity to bring back three waters\u2014and I don\u2019t think you\u2019ll be hearing that today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003ELocal Water Done Well\u2014this is the third reading of the third bill. It is giving councils the choice of new water service delivery models. Most are coming to form these multi-council councilcontrolled organisations (CCOs). In fact, if you look at, say, Mayor Sam Broughton, Selwyn Mayor\u2014not necessarily a friend of this Government. A CCO\u2014they were the first; Selwyn were the first to come up with a water CCO under this legislation. They say\u2014the Selwyn District Council\u2014that a CCO would bring new opportunities to manage and fund water services separately from rates for current and future ratepayers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EThis is a great outcome for councils, this is a great outcome for communities, and this is a great outcome for Kiwis. I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223480570e0b704f789c79afacfdbe4533\u0022 data-id=\u00228bae7484208140e2a33821a7d0891e5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223480570e0b704f789c79afacfdbe4533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228bae7484208140e2a33821a7d0891e5a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E When people said yes to having a \u201Cget rid of three waters\u201D sign on their land at the last election, I don\u2019t think they knew they were signing up for the kinds of cost increases that they\u2019re going to experience under the legislation that we\u2019re passing today. What we are seeing is an example of the Government making things worse for Kiwi households, making it harder for them to balance their budgets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223480570e0b704f789c79afacfdbe4533\u0022\u003EIf we have a look around the country, what does Local Water Done Well, or whatever they\u2019re calling it, do? If you live in Christchurch, let\u2019s say just for example, like I do, what we are going to see is water charges increase by $900 a year. If you live in Hamilton, the hike will be $1,700; in Nelson, more than $750; in Dunedin, $1,200 a year increase. In Selwyn, that the previous speaker, Cameron Brewer, was just talking about and holding up as a poster child, get ready for an $1,800 a year increase in your water charges, because that is what this Government thinks doing water well looks like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223480570e0b704f789c79afacfdbe4533\u0022\u003EEach and every National MP is going to have to front up to their communities and tell them why they think that extra money on their rates bill is a good idea and how that is doing something well. It is not doing it well; it is doing it badly, and it is taking New Zealand households backwards. It is making their lives harder, not better. Things are getting worse for them, and this will only add to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223480570e0b704f789c79afacfdbe4533\u0022\u003ESo what does this legislation do? Well, it shifts the financial risk to councils and ratepayers. What the Government said is, \u201COh no, there are too few entities. There\u2019s not enough room for local decisionmaking under the previous Government plans. So we\u2019re going to get rid of any of the economies of scale and the money that could have been saved for ratepayers right across this country, and we\u2019ll just let there be a proliferation of water service entities.\u201D How many have we ended up with? Forty\u201440 water service entities, which is leading to an average increase in water charges for New Zealand households of $1,725.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223480570e0b704f789c79afacfdbe4533\u0022\u003ENow, $1,725 is an awful lot of money for already stretched households to have to put on their budgets. This is money that New Zealanders simply cannot afford. These are costs that this Government is imposing on those households\u2014it\u2019s imposing on them. We heard it from a New Zealand First speaker: when it came down to it, it was all about the billboard and getting rid of cogovernance; they want to get rid of it. For that, each and every New Zealand household is going to carry the burden of an extra $1,725, on average, increase in their water charges. Is that making New Zealand a better place? No, it is not. It is making things worse, and each and every Government MP is going to have to front up to their constituents and tell them why those increased costs they\u2019re paying are a good idea, because this is not how New Zealanders are seeing it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223480570e0b704f789c79afacfdbe4533\u0022\u003EWhat we have not seen is the coming together to form bigger water entities. As my colleague Tangi Utikere has pointed out, there are no incentives in this legislation for those orphan councils to come in and join larger entities, which would minimise costs for New Zealand households.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223480570e0b704f789c79afacfdbe4533\u0022\u003ENow, we\u2019re seeing this legislation come late in August. It\u2019s pretty lucky that we have got this on the Order Paper for this week\u2014a bit of a surprise from a Government that can\u2019t manage its own legislative agenda\u2014because what is happening on 3 September? That is D-Day for councils to have their water services delivery plans into Government\u20143 September. That\u2019s why we\u2019re seeing a flurry of these plans rise up at the moment and why it is becoming abundantly clear what the increased cost on New Zealand households will be in each and every location around the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223480570e0b704f789c79afacfdbe4533\u0022\u003EThe Government has made it pretty clear it\u2019s going to be punitive for those councils that don\u2019t have their plans ready on 3 September. I wonder how those councillors feel about the fact they\u2019re going to have their plans in on 3 September, but the Government\u2019s only managing to get this legislation through the House only a matter of a couple of weeks out from that looming deadline.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223480570e0b704f789c79afacfdbe4533\u0022\u003EWhat else do we see in there? The coercive compliance model that the Government is imposing through that. What they\u2019ve said is: if you don\u2019t get that water services delivery plan in by 3\u00A0September, that triggers possible Government intervention, including the appointment of Crown water specialists. This is the Government that was all about local leadership and letting locals take control. They\u2019re saying, \u201CGet it in by 3 September or we\u2019ll just come over the top and we\u2019ll appoint some other people to oversee it.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223480570e0b704f789c79afacfdbe4533\u0022\u003EThat is what this Government is about. It spoke a big game while it was banging up the billboards across the country. It\u2019s an entirely different matter at the next election when they have to go back and explain to some communities, possibly, why they\u2019ve overridden their council and appointed Crown water specialists in their place. How\u2019s that going to look on the delivery of making sure that we have local leadership? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223480570e0b704f789c79afacfdbe4533\u0022\u003EIt also pushes the regulatory costs on to councils. Now, one of the things I think that we can all agree on is that there has been an under-investment over many decades in the water infrastructures around New Zealand. As a country, we must do better. If we want to grow our housing, if we want to grow our cities and produce more affordable housing, then it is absolutely imperative that we upgrade and keep expanding and keep investing in our water infrastructure. But in terms of pushing those costs on to councils, in the way in which this bill that is going through its final stages now is doing, it is not going to cure any of those problems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223480570e0b704f789c79afacfdbe4533\u0022\u003EThis is a bill\u2014as one of my colleagues sitting directly behind me keeps reminding the House in a very, very useful way\u2014that just does not add up. It does not add up. If we think about the problems that we\u2019re trying to solve by increased investment in water infrastructure, making everything more expensive, from the water charges households will pay to the regulatory burden that councils will carry, just does not make sense. More than that, this also weakens the public health protections that need to be there. Water is vital to our public health in New Zealand. Making it absolutely safe for people to drink the water and dispose of waste water in a way that protects public safety and health is a vital thing and something that\u2019s a minimum that we should expect from our water system. But this makes it easier for small suppliers to opt out of full regulatory oversight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223480570e0b704f789c79afacfdbe4533\u0022\u003ENow, I want to live in a country that no matter where we turn on the tap, we can have the knowledge, and we can all have the faith, that water will be safe to drink and that it is not going to do harm. When I think about one of the things that is great about New Zealand, and there are many of them, it is actually our clean water\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fea18f83560d423bb1bb5513598204ea\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223480570e0b704f789c79afacfdbe4533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022717f7f8e945a4c7fa600a68af59b9977\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and the access to have that clean water, and we should not be downgrading it. You\u2019re right, Mr McAnulty, it is in some places, and we need to ensure that it is in all of our places that we have that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223480570e0b704f789c79afacfdbe4533\u0022\u003EWe also know that in this bill, there is a failure to protect our water services from privatisation. This is a bill that is not putting in place those protections to ensure that we can have the faith that public ownership gives our water services. I want to hear the next Government speaker get on their hind legs and reassure this House that there are no plans for privatisation of our water services, because what we can see, when we look around the world, if we think the bills are being hiked by this Government\u2019s changes\u2014and they are; by, on average, over $1,700 a year\u2014is it will only get worse if there\u2019s a privatisation of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223480570e0b704f789c79afacfdbe4533\u0022\u003EWe are disappointed we cannot support this, but this is a bill that increases the cost for New Zealand households. It makes it worse, not better, for them. It downgrades our environmental protections, and it downgrades our health protections. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022 data-id=\u00220a60502f5cee43b8ae653f8a08c12c9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a60502f5cee43b8ae653f8a08c12c9d\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s good to have a little bit of context. One of the previous members\u2019 contributions\u2014Tangi Utikere\u2014talked about how these councils are being forced, which is rich given that four mega-entities were bestowed upon the previous lot. Megan Woods talked about the expense. Well, let\u2019s talk about expense. Let\u2019s talk about the $1.2 billion, and what have we got to show for it? I\u2019ve got a pie graph [Mr Hamilton holds up a pie chart], and a third of that was just consultants and advisers\u2014one-third, $400\u00A0million, on consultants and advisers. What have we got to show for that? Nothing. We\u2019re quick to forget\u2014what about the Better Off Fund? Tangi Utikere talked about \u201CWhere\u2019s the incentive for the orphans?\u201D Remember the Better Off Fund? Let\u2019s give councils $500 million to get on board with our commanding rule! That\u2019s ridiculous. Well, I\u2019ve got to say: goodbye, Three Waters; hello, Local Water Done Well. Goodbye, co-governance; hello, locally chosen and designed options. Goodbye, four mega-entities\u2014you nod your head, but you know I\u2019m right\u2014hello, localism and choice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u00224e03cb337c254332812895ac27902822\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e03cb337c254332812895ac27902822\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd39fe77743345e2b7bee19f18313302\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd39fe77743345e2b7bee19f18313302\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Amongst all the clapping and cheering and hooting, I want us to remember why we needed to reform water services in this country. The previous Government was working on it; this Government is working on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003ENow, Havelock North is a lovely town. I\u2019ve visited it often. It\u2019s a really pleasant place to go to, and it\u2019s a great place to go on a holiday and a great place to go on a wine tour. But just a very few years ago, the water supply there was contaminated, and four people died and many others became very, very ill indeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EWe have a problem with our water services in this country, and we all acknowledge that. We all acknowledge the need to have good water services. We all like to be able to go places and just turn the tap on and drink the water, and that\u2019s part of the point of trying to reform water services, but this plan does not work. This plan pushes extraordinary costs on to households. This plan pushes all the responsibility out to local councils and it has central government taking no responsibility for funding the much-needed upgrades of water infrastructure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EThis plan brought to us by that Government means that people in Christchurch will pay another $900 a year in rates\u2014that\u2019s a lot of money. People in Nelson will pay another $750 a year in rates. People in Hamilton, Mr Hamilton, will pay another $1,700 a year in rates. People in Dunedin will pay another $1,200 a year in rates. People in Wellington\u2014not a city where most of us live, but we are here, week after week after week. The people that we live amongst for much of the time as we\u2019re doing our jobs will pay up to, it\u2019s estimated, an extra $4,800 a year in water rates. They\u2019re extraordinary numbers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003ENow, we know that work needed to be done on our water infrastructure, but where that Government has got it wrong is the extent to which they are pushing the costs of this on to local ratepayers. You see, when they campaigned so vigorously against three waters, when they got all flustered and flurried about it, and when they said that the best thing to do was localism, what they did not say clearly was that it meant pushing the costs of this out, as well. If we talk about having a fiscally sustainable water solution, this is not it, and it is not sustainable because of the costs it pushes on to ordinary households. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s not the only fault with this bill. Another one of the faults of it is the extent to which, under the guise of promoting localism, it will instead allow the Government to go in and tell local councils exactly what they must do. Now, under the guise of choice\u2014a word that was used out there\u2014we were told that local councils could choose who to join up with in order to provide water services. But all along we asked the question: what about Auckland councils? What about those who are getting left out? We know that some councils are getting left out because they have too small a ratings base and they have too few connections to make it financially viable for anyone else to take them on. In some areas, we\u2019ve had regional entities try to get stood up and people try to work together to get these water services going, but those local entities have fallen over. That\u2019s happening in Taranaki, in South Canterbury, and in the Western Bay of Plenty\u2014areas where these proposed water services entities won\u2019t get stood up because it can\u2019t happen. What does that mean? It means that central government is going to come in over the top and tell them exactly what to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003ESo those members cried localism and they campaigned on it, but when push comes to shove, they are not going to do it. They\u2019re saying with one hand one thing, and doing something completely different. They should be ashamed of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EI invite the members of that Government to read the excellent analysis from Thomas Manch over the past few days in the papers\u2014have a look at the in-depth criticisms of this proposal and think again about why they are voting in support of this legislation. They should not do so. If they support localism and if they support low costs for households, they should join us and vote against these bills. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00226a56ecf2ba9c40b9ad9907948fe2c848\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a56ecf2ba9c40b9ad9907948fe2c848\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E We campaigned on scrapping Labour\u2019s Three Waters, and we delivered. We campaigned on our own Local Water Done Well policy, and today, we deliver the third tranche of reforms of Local Water Done Well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003EIt is a great day for councils up and down the country, for autonomy and flexibility to design water services for their communities. It\u2019s a great day for ratepayers, who get to keep their water assets intact and have limited rates rises as a result. I don\u2019t know where they get their figures from, but we are confident that they will face lower rate rises as a result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a great day for New Zealanders, because no longer do we have the divisive co-governance policies under the previous Labour Government. This law that we are passing today is all about the basics: ensuring councils can fund and deliver the basics of water infrastructure right across New Zealand. It\u2019s a plan that works, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022 data-id=\u00228d8b7d5d59b14d3095cbcb012a2ea5b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d8b7d5d59b14d3095cbcb012a2ea5b7\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. In a debate like this, it\u2019s always quite telling what Government MPs have to say. Now, throughout this debate, there have been many claims, based on evidence and fact, that this bill will see significant increases in rates bills. Now, one might think that if those claims are being made in this House, Government members would want to take the opportunity to refute that. Those are pretty massive claims. We\u2019ve heard figures in the thousands for various communities around this country, but did they do that? No, they didn\u2019t. They read their key lines, and they sat down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003EIf this was such a significant day for the Government, I would have assumed that they would want to take the opportunity to explain how this bill will make it better for New Zealanders. Ultimately, they campaigned on improving the cost of living, and, as we know, if we look across the board, they are actually making it worse, and there\u2019s no better example of that than this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003ENow, I have studied the ruling of the Speaker this afternoon in question time, so I\u2019m going to be very careful with my language here, but there have been some repeated lies all amongst this broader conversation around water reform. It is unfortunate, because, as my colleague Dr Deborah Russell mentioned, what started this entire debate was, essentially, an entirely regrettable situation where people died as a result of consuming water that should have been safe. When we opened up the hood\u2014in fact, it wasn\u2019t us; it was a previous National Government under Anne Tolley. When Anne Tolley opened up the hood, she recognised that the system was broken, it was utterly unsustainable, and no cheap political PR exercise was going to fix it. They commenced that work to review the delivery of three waters across this country. We came into Government and continued that work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003EWhat was clear is that councils cannot do this by themselves, and what is also clear from councils\u2019 own figures is that this country needs to find $185 billion over the next 30 years. Now, that\u2019s the first figure that I have mentioned, but it is still more figures than any of the Government contributions in this debate so far. None of them have stood up and said how this plan will add up, and I\u2019ll tell you why: because it doesn\u2019t. I\u2019ll tell you something else: they know it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003EIn communities like Northcote and Upper Harbour and Hamilton and New Plymouth and Christchurch and North Otago and Maungakiekie and Bay of Plenty and Southland\u2014in every single one of the communities that are represented by members here tonight\u2014rates are going up because of this bill, and every single one of them is going to vote for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003EI mentioned earlier that there had been some repeated lies throughout this broader conversation. What is interesting is the way that they have gone about this, because, in their own documents\u2014in the Government\u2019s own documents\u2014the advice is quite clear that Local Water Done Well, so-called, does not add up. It\u2019s in their own documents. Did they refer to the advice today? No, of course they didn\u2019t, because it doesn\u2019t add up. Councils\u2019 own figures showed that over the next 30 years, $185\u00A0billion needs to be found, and this model, which is, essentially, a carbon copy of the Castalia modelling, doesn\u2019t add up, so isn\u2019t it interesting that Simeon Brown, who was the Minister at the time, went on councils\u2019 long-term plan numbers, which have projections over the next 10 years? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003EEven then, it doesn\u2019t really add up, but they can just make it look like it does. They have neglected deliberately\u2014this is a deliberate political decision\u2014the councils\u2019 own projections from year 11 to year 30. They knew that councils had backdated most of that work between that period, so it would be disingenuous if anyone were to claim that the 10-year long-term plan period is one-third of the projected work, because it isn\u2019t. The only way that they could make this look like it added up was to take a fraction of the projected costs, and they did that deliberately, and they knew that they were neglecting years 11 to 30.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003EThe public will soon be bearing the consequences of that disingenuous approach. How can they stand up and say to New Zealanders that this adds up when they know from their own advice that it doesn\u2019t? It is extraordinary. The cost to ratepayers will be in the thousands. This is, in some places, going to cost them more than the status quo. It is extraordinary, and it is actually unbelievable. This is a momentous day in the sense that the next time New Zealanders get their rates bill and they see a significant increase, which they will, they can think back to today and they can think back to the regions that I just read out earlier and see if their local member of Parliament has participated in this debate. Perhaps they might like to contact them, because every single one of the Government MPs is about to vote for significant rates increases. We already know that there are people who cannot afford to keep their homes because of rates increases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003ENow, they will say, \u201COh, no, we\u2019ve capped rates.\u201D This isn\u2019t capping rates\u2014$900 in Christchurch isn\u2019t capping rates; $1,700 in Hamilton isn\u2019t capping rates. The list goes on. All this Government is doing is smokes and mirrors, and what the country needs is an upfront conversation about the state of the problem. They campaigned, and they whipped up hysteria about what? Not about the cost, but about M\u0101ori being on the regional representative board. Why couldn\u2019t they just say it? Why couldn\u2019t they just swallow their pride and say, \u201CLook, actually, what is being proposed is proven to work, but we don\u2019t like M\u0101ori on that group.\u201D, which wasn\u2019t an ownership group, which wasn\u2019t a governance group but was a regional representative group. Actually, that\u2019s all they didn\u2019t like, because they knew it would get them cheap votes in an election campaign. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003EThey got into Government and they realised, \u201CActually, do you know what? The thing that we promised New Zealanders would work actually won\u2019t work, and we probably already knew it wouldn\u2019t anyway. I don\u2019t know what we\u2019re going to do. I know, we\u2019ll screw the scrum, we\u2019ll fiddle with the figures, we\u2019ll make it look like it\u2019s going to work, and when it really hits home, it\u2019ll be somebody else\u2019s problem to deal with.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003EBut their calculation is mis-skewed to one little degree: it won\u2019t be in 18 months\u2019 time when this hits home; it will be immediately. There will be people that simply cannot afford their water bills. There will be people that lose their homes because they cannot pay these bills. It\u2019s happening already, so they can\u2019t deny it won\u2019t happen in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003ENow, there\u2019s one more Government call left. Will they stand up and explain to New Zealanders, in the 10 minutes that they have, how this bill makes it cheaper for ratepayers? No, because all they have is this inaccurate claim that $1.2 billion was spent and that none of it went into infrastructure. We\u2019ve heard it here tonight. It\u2019s just not true. It is not true\u2014$527 million of the $1.2 billion went into water pipes, so the best argument they\u2019ve got isn\u2019t true. I think that sums it up. Why should New Zealanders have to put up with this and put up with a Government that has no interest in actually sorting the significant issues that we are facing? No community is immune, even Auckland\u2014no one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003EThis bill affects every New Zealander, and every New Zealander in the midst of an ongoing cost of living crisis will have even less money now, because even if they don\u2019t pay their rates, they will through their rents. Landlords will be faced with increases of thousands of dollars a year because of all of them, and you know what\u2019ll happen: they\u2019ll put rents up to cope with it. This will impact every Kiwi in the pocket. Why? They\u2019re too arrogant to say that their plan won\u2019t work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u0022c90dbd8d4fed481e805ac3d34ae6ee74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c90dbd8d4fed481e805ac3d34ae6ee74\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022 data-id=\u0022abf70d643a1a4082ba61372950a90084\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022abf70d643a1a4082ba61372950a90084\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wasn\u2019t part of the select committee that was associated with the committee stage of this bill, but I have had a bit of time in local government, and I saw the challenges around the water infrastructure that this bill is all about. I sort of questioned myself: how do we get to the spot? There are correct statements made on the other side of the House that we had a terrible, terrible outcome, which was the Havelock North situation. But I think it comes well before that, the reason as to why we\u2019re in this predicament here. I think it\u2019s around the construct of local government. What I mean by \u201Cthe construct\u201D is, I think, it\u2019s about how do we actually elect our councillors to councils, to territorial local authorities, who are the ultimate decision makers\u2014through their management and consultants\u2014when they\u2019re making decisions? I\u2019ve seen far too often candidates for councils running on the mandate of keeping rates down\u2014bang the table, \u201CI\u2019m going to make sure rates are going to be down\u201D type of thing. I say that that is a very, very worrying comment. It should be a statement of every dollar we spend\u2014every ratepayer dollar that we spend\u2014should be a well-spent dollar. It\u2019s a difference\u2014it\u2019s a difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022\u003ESo how did we get here? I think that we\u2019ve had decades of under-investment. We\u2019ve had decades where councils have not paid attention to this very, very important infrastructure, this very, very expensive infrastructure. There\u2019s no doubt about it that there are councils or there are areas within New Zealand that have got significant spends ahead of them, whether it\u2019s one year ahead, five years, 10 years\u2014big, big spends. It\u2019s going to cost money. There are going to be increases in the cost of water because there has been such an under-investment in this infrastructure. This is a rescue package of where we\u2019ve got to with local government. That is my personal view, OK? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022\u003EThere are councils in New Zealand that have actually done a good job. I know that in Taranaki we\u2019ve got some councils that have invested significant amounts of money in their infrastructure, and when they are needing the next lot, it\u2019s actually well, well ahead. They are concerned that they are going to be subsidising next-door neighbours or other councils in the near term, when they\u2019ve actually done a great job themselves as a council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022\u003EThat is the challenge of the decision-making councils\u2014whether they should amalgamate or not with other councils\u2014and that\u2019s part of the challenge of what they\u2019re trying to get around with regards to it. This is all about ownership and control. What we heard clearly through our campaign, before the last election, is that the three waters that was proposed was taking away the control and ownership of these important infrastructure pieces for these councils themselves. That\u2019s what it was all about, so we\u2019ve come up with the proposal here where they retain the control, retain the ownership, and they can actually deliver it via a vehicle of which there are a number of options there. We are not dictating how they shall do it. They put the proposal to the Government, and it is assessed to make sure it can be enduring and sustainable into the future. It\u2019s choice. It\u2019s maintaining that localness\u2014\u201Csubsidiarity\u201D, if you want to put a title onto it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022\u003EThis bill here is actually doing a lot of stuff that\u2019s moving in the right direction. It does have a cost\u2014it does have a cost\u2014and it\u2019s socialised, hopefully over a bigger scale of people. This is about trying to gain scale by joining councils together\u2014largely, but not in every case. There are some councils that will, I believe, demonstrate that they can stand alone on their own two feet, and if that\u2019s the case, I think the Government should be supportive of that. This bill here\u2014or two bills, which are here in this third reading\u2014is the final of the trifecta of all the different pieces of work that need to be done legislatively to be able to now put in place the mechanisms for the community of New Zealand to move forward with regards to this important water infrastructure. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d3dcee54cd804de08a6cb54f56c8143b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Local Government (Water Services) Bill and the Local Government (Water Services) (Repeals and Amendments) Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000477\u0022\u003EBills read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002230f30b2d6edf4f99904000bd9b622254\u0022\u003EClimate Change Response (Emissions Trading Scheme\u2014Forestry Conversion) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225d5a3bcef4b34324a6a5efddf84b0bb3\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229011ebaae6074059aae6b78fb321f2a3\u0022 data-id=\u00221ec240e0955c4c1ba01b312198ae518f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229011ebaae6074059aae6b78fb321f2a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ec240e0955c4c1ba01b312198ae518f\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for the Environment)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Forestry: Madam Speaker, I seek leave to present a legislative statement on the Climate Change Response (Emissions Trading Scheme\u2014Forestry Conversion) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237f1b1254caf48d29b2635b2fb7e6abd\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none. That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229011ebaae6074059aae6b78fb321f2a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e151d9ac563d4a94921bf88286fe442f\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Climate Change Response (Emissions Trading Scheme\u2014Forestry Conversion) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229011ebaae6074059aae6b78fb321f2a3\u0022\u003EI\u2019m proud to stand in support of the second reading of the Climate Change Response (Emissions Trading Scheme\u2014Forestry Conversion) Amendment Bill. This bill represents a thoughtful and necessary evolution in how we manage land use under the emissions trading scheme (ETS), one that reflects our climate ambitions, our commitment to rural communities, and our vision for a balanced, resilient future for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229011ebaae6074059aae6b78fb321f2a3\u0022\u003EThis Government\u2019s position is that there is a place in New Zealand for both forestry and for agriculture to be growing our economy from the rural heartland, but doing so in a balanced way that doesn\u2019t see some of our most versatile and productive soils lost to forestry. We have heard the concerns from the rural sector about the high levels of sustained tree planting that have been driven by the ETS at the expense of productive farmland. If the current rates of full farm conversions continue unaddressed, we risk unintended consequences for our food production, our economy, our rural communities, our agricultural supply chains, and our land-use flexibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229011ebaae6074059aae6b78fb321f2a3\u0022\u003EThis bill follows through on a key election commitment and will protect our most productive land for food production whilst enabling sustainable growth of the forestry sector and continued progression towards our climate change targets. It does this by amending the Climate Change Response Act 2002 to limit farm conversions to exotic forestry on land use capability (LUC) classes\u00A01\u00A0to 6 from registering in the ETS, except where there is an exemption, limit, or allowance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229011ebaae6074059aae6b78fb321f2a3\u0022\u003EWhen we debated this bill at first reading, the House was united in recognising the need to address the rapid and often irreversible conversion of productive farmland into exotic forestry. We acknowledged the risk of perverse incentives and agreed it was time to make a change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229011ebaae6074059aae6b78fb321f2a3\u0022\u003ESince then, the Environment Committee has done excellent work under tight time frames, and I want to thank the committee members and the many submitters who engaged constructively with the bill. Their feedback has led to five key improvements that I believe make this legislation stronger, fairer, and more future-focused, but all of them continue with the direction that this House unanimously agreed during the first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229011ebaae6074059aae6b78fb321f2a3\u0022\u003EFirstly, we\u2019ve clarified the definition of \u201Cunfarmed land\u201D. Originally, the definition risked excluding land from ETS registration if any exotic species had been planted in the five years since farming ceased, even on marginal land. That wasn\u2019t the intent. The revised definition now focuses on forest land establishment on LUC class 1 to 6 land, allowing exotic planting on class 7 and 8 land, and allowing areas under one hectare, such as shelter belts, to be planted without disqualifying the title. This change ensures that genuinely unfarmed land can still be used for exotic forestry while protecting our most productive soils. It is a practical fix and it reflects the reality on the ground where landowners often use shelter belts or plant small areas for erosion control. We\u2019re not punishing good land stewardship; we are encouraging it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229011ebaae6074059aae6b78fb321f2a3\u0022\u003ESecondly, we\u2019ve improved how mapping standards are managed. Rather than prescribing mapping standards through regulation, the bill now empowers the Environmental Protection Authority to issue them directly. This would provide better consistency with the way that mapping standards are currently issued for the forestry Emissions Trading Scheme. It\u2019s a small administrative change, but it reflects a bigger principle that our land-use management tools must be agile, responsive, and grounded in good science.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229011ebaae6074059aae6b78fb321f2a3\u0022\u003EThirdly, we\u2019ve removed the exemption for offsetting land specifically for post-1989 forest. This was a potential loophole. Under the original bill, ETS participants could have used post-1989 offsetting applications to register exotic forestry on LUC class 1 to 6 land, sidestepping the new restrictions. That would have undermined the intent of the bill. The committee has rightly closed that gap. The exemption now applies only to pre-1990 offsetting, where the risks are lower and the policy rationale is clearer. This change protects the integrity of the ETS and ensures that offsetting doesn\u2019t become a back door for large-scale conversions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229011ebaae6074059aae6b78fb321f2a3\u0022\u003EFourthly, we\u2019ve made the allocation system for LUC class 6 land more efficient. The bill reserves a portion of the annual allocation for small applications\u2014a good idea that supports small landowners and community-led forestry. As introduced, any unused portion couldn\u2019t be reallocated. That risked leaving hectares on the table. The committee has fixed this. Now, if the reserved portion isn\u2019t fully used, it can be redistributed. That means we can make full use of the available land while still prioritising equity and access.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229011ebaae6074059aae6b78fb321f2a3\u0022\u003EFifthly, we\u2019ve strengthened the transition exemptions. We all agreed that landowners who had already begun investing in forestry conversions before the policy change should be treated fairly, but the original drafting was too loose. It allowed exemptions based on a single qualifying investment even if the applicant had no clear interest in the land. The revised bill now requires both a clear interest in the land and one or more qualifying forestry investments. Both must have occurred prior to the policy announcement date of 4 December 2024. A clear interest means ownership, a registered lease or forestry rights, a sale and purchase agreement, or a written offer to purchase the land that had either been accepted or there has been a written intention to negotiate further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229011ebaae6074059aae6b78fb321f2a3\u0022\u003EQualifying investments include emissions rulings, activities under the Resource Management Act, and other forestry preparation activities such as seedling orders or land preparation. This means that neither a seedling order nor a land purchase agreement would, on their own, qualify for a transitional exemption. This is a fairer, more robust test and it strengthens the transitional exemptions so they focus on those who were genuinely acting in good faith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229011ebaae6074059aae6b78fb321f2a3\u0022\u003ETaken together, these changes reflect a bill that is more precise, more equitable, and more aligned with our long-term goals. They show that we\u2019ve listened, we\u2019ve learned, and we\u2019ve improved. But more than that, they reflect an optimistic vision for land use in New Zealand\u2014a vision where forestry plays a vital role in our climate response, but not at the expense of food production or rural vitality; a vision where the ETS supports economic development; and a vision where policy is shaped not just by carbon metrics but by community values and environmental stewardship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229011ebaae6074059aae6b78fb321f2a3\u0022\u003EThis bill is not anti-forestry. It is pro-balance. It is pro - rural resilience. It\u2019s part of a broader shift towards a climate response that is grounded in integrity and shaped by the voices of those who live and work on the land. The bill is a necessary and timely response to the evolution in how we manage land use under the ETS, one that reflects our climate ambitions, our commitment to rural communities, and our vision for a balanced, resilient future for New Zealand, so I commend this bill to the House. I look forward to its continued progress, and I thank everyone who has helped shape it into a better, fairer, and more future-ready piece of legislation. I move that the Climate Change Response (Emissions Trading Scheme\u2014Forestry Conversion) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae7aa797f5f44ec19d8ab32393917280\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae7aa797f5f44ec19d8ab32393917280\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022 data-id=\u00220e5e80d25aa34beca19d7bc85c915f44\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e5e80d25aa34beca19d7bc85c915f44\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Party will continue to support this bill, but it\u2019s a margin call. It\u2019s a margin call because although this bill is setting out to achieve some control over the rate at which rural land is converted to forestry, it does not necessarily achieve that goal itself\u2014that conversion can still happen, it does not necessarily protect all of our soils in the way that they need to be protected, and it does not really solve some of the problems with the role of forestry in the emissions trading scheme (ETS). We will support the bill, but it is a margin call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EI want to just talk a little bit about why we\u2019ve landed on that position and, first of all, just to talk clearly about what happens in this bill. All our land in this country has land use capability rating on it\u2014land use capability 1 through 8. Land use capability 1 is our very finest soils\u2014the finest production soils, around Pukekohe, for example. If we go to land use capability class 6, we\u2019re starting to talk about some of the more marginal hill country, the dissected hill country which can be farmed for sheep and beef, but it\u2019s possibly not the greatest. By the time we get to 7 and 8, some of it is unfarmable\u2014so it has different capabilities. Under this bill, each year, a farmer who has land in land use capability classes 1 through 6 can, over time, put up to 25 percent of that land into forestry that is used for the emissions trading scheme or for getting carbon credits. It\u2019s important to note that other forestry can still continue on other parts of that land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EIf the land is in land use capability class 6, an additional 15,000 hectares a year can go into the emissions trading scheme, and whoever gets to do that on their farm is determined through a ballot. A ballot is an interesting mechanism. It was hard to understand what might be a fair mechanism. That\u2019s the ballot that the officials and the Minister have come up with\u2014so be it\u2014and with land use capability classes 7 and 8, there are no restrictions on how much land in there can go into forestry which is used for carbon credits in the emissions trading scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s quite a complicated bill, and it is absolutely right for the Minister to say that rural communities have been calling for some measures to restrict the changeover of farms from farming\u2014from sheep and beef farming particularly\u2014into forestry. People have talked about how it has impacted rural communities\u2014how, as farms are converted into forestry, rural families leave, and it has quite a big impact on communities. Madam Speaker, I\u2019m sure you might know this from down your way as well, down in Westland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EOn the surface, addressing this problem looks like a good thing, but I do see three areas in this bill where we actually just need to think a little bit carefully, and we have thought through carefully and have come down on this margin call. I want to talk about the effect on rural communities, I want to talk about the use of soils, but primarily I want to talk about the lack of attention to the role of forestry in the emissions trading scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EIn terms of the effect on rural communities, the assumption is that this change\u2014this new legislation\u2014will slow down the conversion of whole farms to forestry. Actually, it won\u2019t. Land use capability classes 7 and 8 can still go entirely into forestry for the emissions trading scheme. But, if we look at what has been said by Beef \u002B Lamb New Zealand, they\u2019ve said that even under these changes that are being put through, they\u2019re still too permissive. They still estimate that up to 26,000\u00A0hectares of whole farms on land classes 6 and 7 could still be converted each year. Their concern is that class 6 land, they say, is the most productive in the sheep and beef sector, and even class 7 land is economically viable, but if the conversions proceed, a further 650,000 hectares could be lost to forestry by 2050.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003ENow, it\u2019s not just the land lost to forestry; it\u2019s the fact that, with forestry, there are fewer people in each district. That\u2019s families moving out because the farm has gone to forestry, which doesn\u2019t need a whole family on it to farm it. That means that the local school loses enrolments. It means that it may no longer be viable to run a store out on the back blocks. There\u2019s a whole lot of services that are lost along with the loss of people, so I think there could still be an impact on local communities. I guess we will have to wait and see how this particular legislation works out. It might slow down the rate of forestry conversion. It\u2019s probably worth a go\u2014a margin call for us. We will support it that far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EIn terms of the use of soils, it does concern me that some of our very best soils can still end up being used for exotic forestry in the emissions trading scheme. It\u2019s amazing travelling through Pukekohe, through other immensely fertile areas, and seeing what can be grown there and how lush it is, how wonderfully fertile those soils are. It does seem a shame to leave open that space where those immensely productive soils could be converted into forestry. However, this does still permit this. I guess one of the reasons for that is we do want to ensure that landowners can make decisions about what they do with their land and not to interfere too much, but it\u2019s a very fine balance on that one, as we\u2019re seeing from this legislation in the first place. In some ways, I think, if we\u2019re going to intervene with decisions that landowners make, why not just go the whole hog and say you can\u2019t put class category 1 in at all? It might be a good thing to do. If we\u2019re going to go down this interventionist path, why not go a whole lot further? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EBut I think the real thing here that really worries me is that although this bill is named as it is, the Climate Change Response (Emissions Trading Scheme\u2014Forestry Conversion) Amendment Bill\u2014so it comes into the category of climate change\u2014it doesn\u2019t do what we need to have done with forestry in the emissions trading scheme. The way our emissions trading scheme is set up, we are one of only two countries in the world that allow a one for one on forestry in the emissions trading scheme. One tonne of carbon emitted can be soaked up by one tonne of soaking up done by trees\u2014in and out, and in and out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a couple of difficulties with that. One is that, obviously, it then does create the incentive to turn land over to forestry instead of food production. It could be a good thing to do, but, more importantly, forests are not necessarily a very permanent carbon sink. That\u2019s the analysis from the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, who had a big report out recently on the use of forestry in the emissions trading scheme. Forests need maintenance, they need to be looked after, they need weeding, they need pest control, and so on. It\u2019s not always clear that that happens with carbon forests. We actually need to have a big think about the role of carbon forests in the emissions trading scheme. More to the point, if we continue using forestry in the emissions trading scheme, the analysis suggests that if we continue to do that, we will reach using forestry credits net zero in the emissions trading scheme in about 10 years. What it will do is it will undermine the price of credits in the emissions trading scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a complicated problem to solve, and it does need to be solved, in terms of how we use forestry in the emissions training scheme and, in fact, how the emissions training scheme works altogether. There was a long analysis from Radio New Zealand reporter Kirsty Johnston this morning, talking about the various climate-related endeavours that have been delayed, defunded, or discontinued under this current Government, and sitting amongst them was something that was happening under the previous Government but is no longer happening, and that was the role of forestry in the ETS. We actually need to have that review done, and it needs to be done soon. This bill is not it. I would like to see some priority given to thinking about the role of forestry in the emissions trading scheme. So there you have it: support for this bill, but qualified support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7bc250c08cb40a8a9e00987793f4462\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7bc250c08cb40a8a9e00987793f4462\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, we had very in-depth conversations about this bill, as recently as at the Green Party caucus meeting this morning. It is a challenging bill, and we agreed to support it to select committee because we viewed that it\u2019s a genuine problem that we\u2019re trying to grapple with. But we have come to the determination that we will not be supporting this bill any further unless there are significant amendments made at the committee of the whole House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003EThe reason for that is that the bill\u2019s primary purpose is not actually dealing with climate change. The bill has sought to find some balance between impacting foresters in an unfair way and addressing the loss of particularly sheep and beef land to pine plantations. While you might take the view\u2014as I remember Pete Hodgson took so many years ago around climate policy\u2014that if all sides are unhappy, you\u2019ve probably struck the right balance, I think in this instance, all sides being unhappy\u2014and I mean foresters and I mean Beef \u002B Lamb New Zealand\u2014is an indication that the balance has not been struck right, and, in fact, the bill is something of a dog\u2019s breakfast. It is not solving the problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003EWe looked really hard at this\u2014to the colleague opposite\u2014and we seriously considered supporting it. But we\u2019ve come to the conclusion that it doesn\u2019t go far enough in actually addressing the problem, and I\u2019ll speak a little to what my colleague Deborah Russell just alluded to. One of the impacts of putting restrictions of 25 percent on land classes 1 to 6 is that you actually push a whole lot of forestry into classes 6, 7, and 8\u2014and 7 and 8, particularly, is a problem. Now, for forestry to be effective, it should be planted in harvestable areas. We potentially create a problem when we put a whole lot of forestry into very difficult-to-get-to places. We\u2019ve just seen in Tasman, with the terrible weather events they\u2019ve had there, whole hillsides of trees bowled over by the weather. Putting more pine plantations in those high, inaccessible land class areas is not a good place to do forestry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s conceivable that many of those forests will never be harvested. They will blow over, they will become the fuel for future wildfires as we get worsening droughts, which is one of the consequences of the problem we\u2019re trying to solve: climate change. Beef \u002B Lamb New Zealand were very clear that 89 percent of the farms that have been purchased for conversion into forestry in the last eight years have been in land classes 6, 7, and 8, with most of it in those land classes, and only a fraction of it in the lower land classes\u2014I think a total of around 12 percent in land classes 1 through to 5. So the restrictions in those land classes is nearly meaningless.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003EThis is something of wallpaper on a political problem. It is not actually going to the root of the problem in solving it. The Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment\u2014and it\u2019s interesting, he\u2019s been quoted by Beef \u002B Lamb New Zealand, as well\u2014made the point that my colleague just made: that it was never the intention that the purchasing of forestry units was going to be the primary mechanism for us dealing with our emissions. The effect of the constant offsetting to pine trees is that the emissions trading credit price stays low.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003EOne of the submitters who didn\u2019t like this bill, amongst others, was the oil and gas lobby. They didn\u2019t like it because they would lose their ability to offset to pine trees. That was their fear\u2014and the price of carbon credits might go up. We have a distortion created by the fact that we have forestry as part of an emissions trading scheme (ETS) mechanism to offset fossil fuel emissions, but the rest of agriculture is not in the emissions trading scheme. So we\u2019re losing one of our least-polluting livestock sectors\u2014sheep and beef, which emits about a quarter of the emissions per hectare of a dairy farm\u2014to offsetting for fossil fuels. We\u2019re losing agricultural productivity to save the bacon of oil, gas, and coal burning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s a very problematic distortion, which is why the real solution to this problem is to take forestry out of the emissions trading scheme. That\u2019s what the Green Party\u2019s position is. We did consider that this bill would serve to set some sort of precedent about intervention into this space\u2014and, therefore, that was useful to move us towards a principle of recognising that offsetting to forestry was not a substantive long-term solution to the problem of climate change. In fact, it\u2019s not a solution at all, in reality. We don\u2019t believe that is correct, on deeper analysis; in fact, we just need to bite the bullet and solve the problem at its core\u2014at its root. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003EThe Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment pointed out what my colleague also mentioned, which is that we are the only country in the world to permit the unlimited inclusion of forestry offsets in the ETS. This bill \u201Cdoes not deal with the fundamental issues of the use of unlimited forestry offsets\u201D; it \u201Caddresses a symptom rather than the root cause\u201D; it will not enhance the credibility of the New Zealand emissions trading scheme, \u201Cwhich needs much deeper reform\u201D; \u201CIt is a complex bureaucratic solution that will have high administrative costs\u201D. This is the message we got from farmers and foresters: that it actually creates a whole lot of complexity in this space. It\u2019s the exact opposite of the message we get from farmers all the time, which is they don\u2019t want more complexity. \u201CIts regulation is based on very poor information and a land use classification tool that is not fit-for-purpose\u201D and \u201CIt could lead to perverse consequences.\u201D\u2014I was reading from the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment\u2019s submission, there. The land-use class classification system\u2014one of the clear bits of feedback we got through the hearings was that it\u2019s out of date. We know this. We have to address that problem in a broader sense. I want to be clear: we need to find real solutions to this problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003EWe did deeply consider supporting it. We will bring amendments to the committee of the whole House stage to see if we can get the legislation better, but one of the major barriers to that is the ridiculously fast process around this bill. Had there been more time\u2014had there been a genuine willingness on the part of the Government to look at ways to make this bill more effective and set up a piece of legislation that could last the test of time, which is what we need in this space\u2014then I think we might have been able to get somewhere. But there was exceedingly little willingness to respond to the substantive and very thoughtful submissions that we received from all sides of the argument, from the forestry sector, from the livestock sector, from an environmental perspective.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003EThe Government just pushed it through, as they have done time and time again in this term of Government. On the matter of climate change, on the matter of the emissions trading scheme, we must find a way to work across the House to find lasting solutions in the legislative framework. That will give certainty to farmers, that will give certainty to foresters, and that will address this existential challenge of our time that we are all responsible for finding meaningful legislative and regulative solutions for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003EMy appeal to sheep and beef farmers who continue to lament the problem they face with the loss of high-country farms to pines is to keep the pressure on\u2014keep the pressure on this Government to do what is necessary to address that problem. My message to the foresters: we hear you when you speak of the value that your forestry brings. No one is the bad guy in the room here, and foresters made very compelling cases that when done correctly, forestry can be a benefit. We certainly have to, in this country, move away from clear felling of plantation forests. The slash problems, the problems of steep country and erosion, is a massive problem for us as a nation. We\u2019re a hilly country and we\u2019re a shaky isle. We need to move to coupe felling of forestry so that we don\u2019t get those negative environmental effects. These are part of a suite of challenges we face in our rural land use and our primary production sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003EThere are solutions. We need to find solutions across the House that seriously grapple with these issues. Unfortunately, this bill does not seize the nettle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248e1db4446614a33987bf17ebba75d9b\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7f2033eba62479592943a24c565da42\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248e1db4446614a33987bf17ebba75d9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7f2033eba62479592943a24c565da42\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a wonderful moment that I have, to share in this second reading of the Climate Change Response (Emissions Trading Scheme\u2014Forestry Conversion) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248e1db4446614a33987bf17ebba75d9b\u0022\u003EI\u2019m struck by the degree of common sense that has been conveyed by some of the speeches coming from the other side of the House. But an observation, if I may: this is the legacy of the left, for goodness\u2019 sake. Six years, Mr Abel, this has been a problem, and beyond that. If I can\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf6d4e5adde84ed4bb74d84e5c85450e\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s your coalition partner\u2014Jonesy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248e1db4446614a33987bf17ebba75d9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ba9963b435440d7af1dd4438d535817\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, he\u2019s starting to yell already. That\u2019s right, Damien O\u2019Connor, you can do that, but this is my time to share some thoughts. I\u2019m sure you, sir, will have your opportunity to do so. For six years, we\u2019ve had a forestry problem in rural New Zealand. I am struck by the man who said he\u2019s a farmer, and I\u2019d love to know his farming experience, in this moment, when I\u2019m trying to give anecdotes to rural New Zealand and share thoughts, Mr Damien O\u2019Connor, of what forestry actually looks like. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248e1db4446614a33987bf17ebba75d9b\u0022\u003ENow, let\u2019s be clear: we are not attacking the forestry sector, as has been shared by the members of that side of the House. But I am aghast that for six years you had opportunity to arrest this rather pernicious issue that was affecting rural New Zealand. Now let\u2019s square this up to the people of Taumarunui, say, Awarua, Pah\u012Batua\u2014anywhere provincially in New Zealand that has dealt with this issue. I am struck, all of a sudden, there\u2019s a degree of common sense, and we\u2019re all on the same page. You guys had six years to arrest this. This is a real bugbear for us in rural New Zealand, who actually live there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a20037b746a4a39b5f53065affc5c48\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Talk about your own selves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248e1db4446614a33987bf17ebba75d9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e0fd41dbd7448c6ae6a7ce434e31139\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: You can heckle and do all of that; I care not. The reality is that this is a real problem. I\u2019d argue this point\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfb0e723b9a04c3ea664ba46ec5703b3\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: This is Jonesy\u2019s issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248e1db4446614a33987bf17ebba75d9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220717771c7dc244bfb0ba5c382cd4ab6b\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: I would argue this point\u2014and sure, James Shaw was complicit in this, too. Damien O\u2019Connor, I\u2019m sure, had much to share on the issue and did not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208ca97c022ea4841ba32512e09d726e6\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Stick to the truth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248e1db4446614a33987bf17ebba75d9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d45940e533924b89b0aeb6eeb5903f8b\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: Here we go. How do we deal with the broom? Steve Abel, you, sir, have spoken of the acidification of monocultural forestry all the time. You guys had six years to fix this. We\u2019ve got real problems with pests, pigs\u2014you name it\u2014possums. This is our backyard, and it is growing massively. How do we square this up? Now, Mr Abel raised a very salient point\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9249267f45c4026ac4bee41aca43e1b\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: What did New Zealand First do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248e1db4446614a33987bf17ebba75d9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d20633675e9e40c895d5b0582bc749e8\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr O\u2019Connor, but I wasn\u2019t talking to you. We are dancing on the head of a pin\u2014you are right\u2014because the previous lot had six years to arrest it and more, and did not. So how do we square up property rights? That is a real issue. I think this side of the House has, arguably, got the balance right. We cannot erode property rights, but we have to square up the contestable. What does it look like when we\u2019re protecting private property rights but equally addressing an issue that has languished for a long, long time? This side of the House is taking that issue very seriously\u2014very, very seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248e1db4446614a33987bf17ebba75d9b\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve got an acidification problem; we\u2019ve got a clear issue in and around woodfall, deadfall, slash. This is not going to be amended. Carbon foresters just plant and leave\u2014we know this. So tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of hectares in our near future are going into trees. No umbrage with the loggers\u2014they\u2019re doing a fantastic job, creating an export reality for rural New Zealand, but carbon farming has a price to pay, and we know what it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248e1db4446614a33987bf17ebba75d9b\u0022\u003ENow, Mr Abel rightly pointed out\u2014after I\u2019ve shared my anecdotes\u2014some of the egregious nature of the settings inside the emissions trading scheme. I think that member has got it squarely on the button. We have to have a genuine conversation of the drivers of afforestation and carbon farming in New Zealand, separate from this bill. If we square that up, we have listened to rural New Zealand, we have finally made good\u2014no longer languishing on the left or the right, actually attesting that this is a genuine problem and squaring it up for the rural people that grow our food and our fibre and all the wonderful jobs that they create.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248e1db4446614a33987bf17ebba75d9b\u0022\u003EObviously, classes 1 to 6, and the percentages that they can plant, is a happy compromise, in a very difficult political situation, for every side of the House, for every avenue that we pursue. I think when we square up where we land with this, there will be more to do, but given that this bill puts certain prescriptions on certain land classes and the percentages that landowners can plant, it is finding a way forward where we have a happy compromise, in what is arguably a very difficult situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248e1db4446614a33987bf17ebba75d9b\u0022\u003EI am saddened it languished for so long. Every rural paper you open, you can see this\u2014every rural public meeting any one of us here has. It says that the bloody pine trees are marching across my community, and I sympathise with those people, because some of us live in those communities. We see our schools shut down; we see the funding and the local roads and the postie, they all go; and we come to trying to square that up. I know Madam Speaker herself would have seen this reality. This is a good bill. It\u2019s trying to strike a happy compromise\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022403b7a1ad854408592203d5410e4fa94\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Lots of trees on the West Coast.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248e1db4446614a33987bf17ebba75d9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f023789b98e44256809263a0ab4380c3\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, the heckling continues over the other side. I just wish that member had something substantive to share. Anyway, I will square up my contribution by saying this: thank you for those that see the sense in this bill. I think Deborah Russell succinctly laid it out, and good it on her\u2014I don\u2019t believe she\u2019s a rural person\u2014but it is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228897365c2a9f4212aaa4a964b4efc584\u0022\u003EHon Dr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: I was born in Whangamomona, for goodness\u2019 sake!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248e1db4446614a33987bf17ebba75d9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a83f6855e26047588de1a2e6d2d7075b\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it doesn\u2019t mean you still live there\u2014oh, look, she\u2019s got defensive. Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to share my thoughts on what is, arguably, a happy compromise in a very difficult situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022 data-id=\u00224e29aa044e1d46bb99120a4c48e7c2ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e29aa044e1d46bb99120a4c48e7c2ae\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON (Minister for Rural Communities):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise on behalf of New Zealand First for this Climate Change Response (Emissions Trading Scheme\u2014Forestry Conversion) Amendment Bill, or the \u201CDo Something About the Bloody Trees Bill\u201D, as the rural communities have been calling for. There is no doubt, with the advent of the emissions trading scheme (ETS) and the rapid rise in afforestation, particularly in later years, it is causing genuine tension in rural communities. It is threatening the viability, and as I said in my first reading speech, I think this is probably right at the very top of a variety of significant issues impacting rural New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003EAfter the initial investment in this afforestation, it is essentially a \u201Cset and forget\u201D for a number of years, whereas land remaining in traditional sheep and beef farming, you\u2019ve got consistent work for your shearers, for your stock agents, for your fencing contractors, for your sheep pregnancy scanners, your vets, your truckies, and everyone that makes such a great contribution to our rural communities. The risk is that they were being hollowed out with depopulation, skills\u2014and then of course you lose your schools and the likes. So this is a significant bill, as Mr Cameron pointed out in his previous contribution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve gone from the billion tree strategy, which I\u2019d note Damien O\u2019Connor has referenced in his heckling, and, actually, this is taking us back to the original intent of the billion tree strategy that did have quite a lot of restrictions about where you could plant in terms of getting funding. The intent of that was right tree, right place, but what we\u2019d ended up with was any tree, any place, without any guardrails, and today we take another step in putting those guardrails in place. Of course, there have been significant flow-on effects with the pests, with very big issues now with possums, deer, pigs, and TB. In places in Otago, where I am, where there\u2019s been quite a bit of afforestation, we\u2019re now seeing an increase in TB after having got our arms around that particular problem pretty well. There\u2019s far-reaching consequences for the decisions that we have made in this House over time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003EIf we look to the select committee report\u2014and I commend the Environment Committee for what was a pretty thorough investigation\u2014from my reading of some of the submissions and from the submitters that I\u2019ve engaged with personally or New Zealand First has engaged with personally, there were, essentially, two sides. There were the foresters and there were the farmers, and we were getting eviscerated from both sides during that process, which probably means we landed this in about the right place for what we\u2019ve got at the moment. There was some contention around the extra 15,000\u00A0hectares, I think, in the class 6 category, over and above the 25 percent. We have some sympathy with that, but this is what we agreed on with the National Party in the New Zealand First - National coalition agreement, and we\u2019re good for our word. We think that we have landed this about right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003EClasses 6, 7, and 8, we note the foresters and, actually, the farmers\u2014probably the one thing that they did agree on was the potential for some unintended consequences there: driving forestry into more marginal land, which is more difficult to harvest and more prone to slips. Of course, for farming, it\u2019s not unproductive land, as is commonly referred to in these debates; it\u2019s less productive land, but it\u2019s where all the breeding stock are that start the process off, that end up as nice prime stock going to the meat works and into our export markets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269671a348e9d461e9bf43001e10ba33d\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s the engine room.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022756dbf55035d413783fe846eeb63f5b8\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is the engine room of our systems. There was some commentary around that, but we\u2019ve got a review process in place. I think we\u2019re going to see how this plays out a little bit. I think we\u2019ve heard enough around the House today to know that while there is broad support in terms of exactly where we\u2019ve got these settings right, we\u2019re all open to some review and for some reflection, because the significance of getting this wrong is important. It is important to our rural communities, important to our export earnings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003EThis is not to vilify forestry, as has been said. It\u2019s a $6 billion industry. There is a lot more potential to add value to our forestry sector. I think there\u2019s too many logs going off unprocessed. There\u2019s great potential to do more here. That\u2019s a wider discussion. The settings in the ETS that have been referred to, and I note in the minority report, the Labour Party have called on the select committee to have a look at that. I think we\u2019d be supportive of that. We\u2019re certainly having those discussions as well. That is a wider issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003EIn terms of what was in front of us at the moment, I think this is a really good start. There was nothing in place, essentially, before this. We\u2019re making quite a big intervention here, and I think this is where the submitters were still raising the alarm bells over not having gone tight enough\u2014they actually haven\u2019t factored in that this is a major intervention. We\u2019re a property rights Government, so to take this step is quite a big jump for us, but it shows how necessary it was. I might point out that no one\u2019s stopping anyone planting trees anywhere. It\u2019s the ability to enter into the ETS that is being limited, which is a Government contract. So if you want to plant your whole farm in trees, that\u2019s up to you, but you\u2019ll only be able to enter 25 percent into the ETS in those classes 1 to 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003EIn terms of the amendments made, I commend the Minister on the changes that he\u2019s allowed to come through from the select committee process and have been endorsed here this afternoon. The clarifications, particularly around the transitionary arrangements\u2014this had been causing great angst out in rural New Zealand. There was gaming going on where people that didn\u2019t have land but had trees or had some seedlings ordered but didn\u2019t quite have the land booked up were actually buying extra or they\u2019re buying extra blocks of land and then, because they had extra seedlings and trying to get after that 4 December deadline and trying to spread out their seedlings over various blocks of land, they were trying to game the system against the very clear intent of that 4 December announcement by the Minister. So those that have been trying to game the system, you will be disappointed. You will not be able to enter into the ETS. The amendments made here have clarified that, and I think that did need clarification, so I\u2019m pleased that the select committee and the Minister have done that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003EI know there\u2019s some tweaks in the other four changes that have come through that select committee process, but clauses 17 and 11A are the key ones for me, because the clear intent of the Government was being flouted. We are serious about this. We have undertaken to act, and we are acting, and today is another step along that process. I cannot wait till the gavel goes down on the third reading on this, because this is a very big weight sitting over rural New Zealand. We are acting, and New Zealand First are very keen to continue supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223f6ec5f31ce54dd4bd54b141faf39a88\u0022 data-id=\u0022d07040cf6d244174aa3346f79b129000\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f6ec5f31ce54dd4bd54b141faf39a88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d07040cf6d244174aa3346f79b129000\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe Madam Speaker. I stand on behalf of Te R\u014Dp\u016B K\u0101k\u0101riki tonight, and members will have heard already our worry and concerns in relation to this legislation. With a tirohanga M\u0101ori, I\u2019d like to bring the voice of tangata whenua into this debate, and the contributions, particularly from my iwi Waikato, and the submission offered by Te Whakakitenga o Waikato, representing 33 hap\u016B, 68 marae, and nearly 100,000 registered beneficiaries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f6ec5f31ce54dd4bd54b141faf39a88\u0022\u003EWaikato was very clear in their submissions in terms of the way that this bill has proceeded and the time frames not being sufficient for tangata whenua to engage in the process. \u201CWhy the rush?\u201D was some of what came through very strongly. There was significant complexity in the legislation, and it\u2019s of national significance\u2014so, again, why the rush?\u2014and it had limited participation from tangata whenua in this space. There was argument within the policy direction, and that was well signalled in late 2024, but Waikato challenges that that does not substantiate the argument for this truncated process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f6ec5f31ce54dd4bd54b141faf39a88\u0022\u003ENow, we heard from our Minister for rural affairs in terms of his saying that everyone is unhappy about it, so we must be getting it right. That is, of course, really interesting, in saying that when people aren\u2019t happy and somehow we\u2019re placing ourselves in the middle ground, then maybe we\u2019re landing somewhere that\u2019s workable, and yet tangata whenua are, of course, split on this issue as well, because it is complex and we didn\u2019t have enough engagement with tangata whenua throughout the process informing where we\u2019ve landed thus far. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f6ec5f31ce54dd4bd54b141faf39a88\u0022\u003EI want to talk about the ballot and how the ballot has come through as a theme where the ballot is bad. Going back to the people of Waikato-Tainui, when they talked about the randomised ballot and the permit system for allocating the right to register for land use compatibility (LUC) class 6 land in the emissions trading scheme, it was like a lottery-style allocation, and that lottery-style allocation undermines the Crown\u2019s obligations to Te Tiriti o Waitangi and it overlooks the distinct status of iwi through being partners of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. The mechanism of the ballot kind of treats us all the same, as if somehow iwi, small landowners, and corporate entities are all the same, without consideration for the structural barriers and those things which have impacted historically and contemporarily on M\u0101ori as tangata whenua\u2014have been impacting land use for generations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f6ec5f31ce54dd4bd54b141faf39a88\u0022\u003EIn land use, for generations M\u0101ori have been impacted, and Waikato-Tainui laboured on this point in terms of the way with which we, as Waikato-Tainui, want to engage with the Crown. They want to engage with the Crown and find workable solutions, and that\u2019s been a theme echoed for the last 18\u00A0months, which is that M\u0101ori want to come to the t\u0113pu and work with the Government on workable solutions across legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f6ec5f31ce54dd4bd54b141faf39a88\u0022\u003EBut when we take a truncated approach to the development of policy and legislation, and cut out the voice of tangata whenua, leaving us to be a marginal forming of a group that might be an advisory that comes through that, then tangata whenua, hap\u016B, iwi, and whenua M\u0101ori are pushed to the side as an average stakeholder, which of course undermines the fundamentals of Te Tiriti o Waitangi and that important relationship of M\u0101ori with the Crown. Now, of course this policy recognises the centrality of M\u0101ori within forestry and in land use, but the way that we as whenua M\u0101ori are overrepresented in the LUC classes that we\u2019re discussing really shows that M\u0101ori need to be at the centre of the conversation in developing legislation like this, because, ultimately, we\u2019re going to be the ones impacted and we\u2019re going to be the ones with the restrictions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f6ec5f31ce54dd4bd54b141faf39a88\u0022\u003EI do look forward to where we can discuss the exemptions proposed. I do look forward to examining this further as we get to the committee of the whole House, and I\u2019m really looking for the workable solutions that M\u0101ori put forward in some of the submissions. But I also continue to hear in community and in whenua M\u0101ori that it shouldn\u2019t be over now. If there is going to be a review, what does that look like, and how will you place tangata whenua at the centre of that conversation? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u00229e6d15bcef384f8b89aced96b0a38c52\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e6d15bcef384f8b89aced96b0a38c52\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired. Members, time has come for the dinner break. The House will resume at 7.30. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 5.59 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea6207b1ee07407b88199398b403379f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea6207b1ee07407b88199398b403379f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House has resumed. Before we broke, it was the second reading on the Climate Change Response (Emissions Trading Scheme\u2014Forestry Conversion) Amendment Bill, and we are on call No. 7.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022 data-id=\u00225c2e066022f24d238c362caa2f8b0b73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c2e066022f24d238c362caa2f8b0b73\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker\u2014appreciate it. Thank you for the opportunity to speak at the second reading of this very important bill. I must say it\u2019s been great listening to the contributions around the House and the fact that other parties have recognised that we have got a challenge in this space around the carbon farming and the use on good grazing land. It was noticeable that in the last Government and then during the campaign, there was little actual solutions put on the table. The National Party campaigned on some solutions, and that is what we\u2019re delivering here today. We understand the sensitivities around it, as someone from rural New Zealand, in Northland, where the carbon forestry has gone on to land it should never have been on. We\u2019re limiting the areas on class 6, which is great, but the important thing that was highlighted by the previous speaker: is there a review in this process so we can monitor how things progress? It\u2019s important for the long-term future of rural New Zealand and our sheep and beef country that we put a stop to unnecessary carbon farming on good land. With that, I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c831ea2a0f3d4ae99132b737186f34fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c831ea2a0f3d4ae99132b737186f34fa\u0022\u003ECUSHLA TANGAERE-MANUEL (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai. Otir\u0101 ko te hiahia kei roto i a au i t\u0113nei w\u0101 i te tuatahi, ko te mihi ki ng\u0101 mate huhua o te w\u0101. K\u0101tahi an\u014D au ka hoki mai i te w\u0101 k\u0101inga. T\u0113nei te mihi atu ki a koutou katoa kua hoki atu ki te w\u0101hi ngaro, kua hoki ng\u0101tahi koutou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EK\u0101re au e p\u012Brangi ki te whakahua ingoa n\u0101 te mea he maha hoki koutou kua hokihoki atu ki te k\u0101inga t\u016Bturu m\u014D t\u0101tou, te tangata. N\u0101 reira ki a koutou m\u0101, haere, haere, haere atu r\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003ET\u0113nei te tangi aroha ki ng\u0101 wh\u0101nau pani maha i t\u0113nei w\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003E[To the Speaker, thank you. Indeed the desire within me at this time, first, is to acknowledge the many recently deceased. I have just now returned from home. I acknowledge all of you who have returned to the unseen place, who have all returned together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t wish to name any names because there are so many of you who have all returned to the true home of ours, of humanity. And so to you all, go on, rest in peace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EI grieve with compassion with the many bereft families at this time.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EHeoi an\u014D r\u0101, ki te k\u014Drero au m\u014D te w\u0101hi ngaro, ka hoki aku whakaaro ki t\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 whakatau\u0101k\u012B, ar\u0101 [However, if I were to speak of the unseen place, my thoughts return to one of the proverbial sayings] \u201CWhatungarongaro te tangata, toit\u016B te whenua\u201D\u2014\u201CWhile man eventually disappears from this realm, the land remains\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EIn my short time as forestry spokesperson for the Labour Party, I\u2019ve come to truly appreciate the fight to preserve both. T\u0101 \u0100pirana Ngata famously said, \u201CKo t\u014D ringa ki ng\u0101 r\u0101kau a te P\u0101keh\u0101 hei oranga m\u014D t\u014D tinana\u201D\u2014\u201CWith your hand, master the arts of the P\u0101keh\u0101 for your physical wellbeing\u201D\u2014in other words, to earn a living. In his time, he advocated farming. These days, it\u2019s AI, and throughout my time, the forestry industry has provided pride and proficiency of skill and financial security for so many wh\u0101nau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003ESuccessive weather events such as Cyclone Gabrielle have seen mass devastation of our whenua. \u201CSlash\u201D has become a part of our everyday vocabulary. We all want to do better by our whenua and our people. This bill, the Climate Change Response (Emissions Trading Scheme\u2014Forestry Conversion) Amendment Bill, intends a balancing act between the urgent need to address climate change and, of course, protecting productive farmland, rural communities, and, importantly, honouring rights and aspirations of M\u0101ori land owners\u2014also relevant to my portfolio of the M\u0101ori economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EColleagues before me have laid out the intended purposes of this bill\u2014i.e., it prohibits exotic emissions trading scheme forestry on land use capability (LUC) classes 1 through 5. I\u2019ll summarise: on land use capability class 6, moderately versatile land, a cap of 15,000 hectares per year will apply, allocated via a national ballot system, including reserved quotas for small block owners. Farmers remain permitted to forest up to 25 percent of their LUC classes 1 to 6 land, ensuring flexibility to diversify operations. Exemptions are provided for indigenous forestry, unmapped or unfarmed land, erosion-prone land, Crown land partnerships, and, critically for M\u0101ori, specific categories of M\u0101oriowned land, including Treaty settlement land and land held under Te Ture Whenua Maori Act. The bill includes transitional provisions for those who made forestry investments between 1 January 2021 and 4 December 2024, allowing those to proceed as planned. These changes are expected to take effect October 2025, with, as the member opposite has referred to, ongoing review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EThese are all noble intentions, but even in the limited time I had hearing submissions on this bill, there were differing views on land use and a lot of debates\u2014and even confusion\u2014about the quota system. That said, I\u2019d like to acknowledge all the members of the Environment Committee for allowing me to attend their select committee and hear many of the submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EThen there are the considerations for M\u0101ori interests. They are laid out in the departmental report, but it\u2019s probably just easier for me to summarise based on the conversations I\u2019ve had. It\u2019s sort of been referred to, or acknowledged, that this is quite an emotional topic\u2014not only forestry but preservation of whenua, preservation of economy. That is something that\u2019s certainly a consideration for M\u0101ori land owners and landowners with M\u0101ori forest interests. Some of their land is so marginal, that\u2019s all it\u2019s good for\u2014as the use of carbon forest. The fact that these are being well considered is something that I absolutely support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EOne of the main messages I got from people in various conversations I had, in k\u014Drero, in particular with M\u0101ori-land interests, is we were heavily incentivised to get into forestry, and we need to be incentivised to get out. Any k\u014Drero, any kaupapa that\u2019s going to support that in a sustainable way\u2014support wh\u0101nau, support whenua M\u0101ori interests, support wh\u0101nau M\u0101ori economic interests as well as wh\u0101nau throughout Aotearoa\u2014is something that we support. That is why, though supporting this bill, Labour\u2019s position is that significant work remains to be done. We all know that. I\u2019ve acknowledged that this is an emotive issue, but one that we all know is critical not only to the preservation of our whenua but for the growth of our economy as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EThe forestry is on the brink of collapse in Tair\u0101whiti. I was quite shocked before\u2014when I used to plan my trip from Rangitukia to the airport, you used to plan it around the logging trucks so you didn\u2019t have to overtake 11 logging trucks on our immaculate road. On my trip two weeks ago, I think I saw one logging truck. Wh\u0101nau are leaving. We do need to find ways to maintain sustainable incomes so that the East Coast can flourish, and not just the East Coast but communities impacted by this industry can flourish. It is about balance. We know our land is suffering and we know our people are suffering. This is, for a lot of people and a lot of our whenua, about survival. So we have to get this right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EI started with a whakatauk\u012B: \u201CWhatungarongaro te tangata, toit\u016B te whenua\u201D. Well, as members know, ko t\u0113tahi atu o ng\u0101 whakatauk\u012B [another of the proverbs] is \u201CToit\u016B te whenua, toit\u016B te tangata\u201D [\u201CWhen our land thrives, people will thrive\u201D].\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003ESo kia kaha t\u0101tou. Labour do support this bill, but there is much, much more work to be done on it. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022 data-id=\u002260e0ac2e11604eb5bdf41c86fad117f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260e0ac2e11604eb5bdf41c86fad117f0\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s great to speak on this, the Climate Change Response (Emissions Trading Scheme\u2014Forestry Conversion) Amendment Bill. It\u2019s always great when we\u2019ve got some level of bipartisanship throughout the House. I think this is a very pragmatic bill. It may not be perfect, but it\u2019s a start. It puts a line in the sand. It tries to strike a balance. I acknowledge the Minister, Todd McClay, for his leadership in this regard. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022 data-id=\u0022a395b632dfa04604b513b0f3e38fdf4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a395b632dfa04604b513b0f3e38fdf4b\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Currently, there are no restrictions on how much land you can register in the emissions trading scheme (ETS). I do want to emphasise, I think, the point that a couple of my colleagues have made in their contributions that New Zealand is just one of two countries\u2014the other being Kazakhstan\u2014that allows fossil fuel emitters to offset 100 percent of their emissions with forestry without any actual obligation to cut emissions through proven technologies like the electrification of transport and industry. So that is the problem definition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003EThis bill will prevent exotic forests from entering the ETS on the land-use capability (LUC) classes\u00A01 to 5 lands, it will limit ETS registrations on LUC 6 land to 15 hectares\u2014that\u2019s the ballot system that my colleague Cushla has referred to as well\u2014and then it protects eligible M\u0101ori-owned land and provides time-limited exemptions for pre-announced investments as well. That\u2019s what the bill that we\u2019re debating does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003ENow, we\u2019re here at the second reading. We\u2019ve had a number of different submissions at select committee stage. Some have said that the bill doesn\u2019t go far enough; some have said that it goes too far, which is kind of par for the course when we hear submissions on various issues at select committee. The Federated Farmers, basically, said that this doesn\u2019t go far enough to stop the march of pines across New Zealand\u2019s productive farmland. It says that it\u2019s disappointing, that it sends a clear message to rural New Zealand that the march of permanent carbon farms across productive farmland won\u2019t be stopping any time soon. Basically, they say\u2014and this is to the point that the Hon Dr Deborah Russell made at the start of our contribution on this bill\u2014that if you\u2019re going to go this far, why don\u2019t the Government just go the whole hog? They\u2019ve said that, in reality, only 12 percent of farm conversions were happening on that land\u2014that is the land classed as class 1 to 5 land anyway. Our productive hill country\u2014the engine room of the agricultural industry\u2014is still at risk of becoming a giant, pollution-driven carbon farm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003EThe Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment was before the Environment Committee recently, talking about some of the work that he\u2019s done, particularly a report examining the drivers of forestry in New Zealand. He made some really good points in terms of wanting us to reflect on the types of forest that we want in the long run. Often, pine is used as a carbon sink. He raised questions around that as a permanent solution. It can act as a carbon sink in the short term, but it\u2019s not ideal in the long term because of its relatively short lifespan and fire risk. He made the point that native species support much greater biodiversity, and that\u2019s something that I would support as well. Although it is slower growing, it does support better diversity and so is better when it comes to environmental benefits. As conservation spokesperson, that sounds good to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003EWith the time that I have left, I just want to point to an RNZ report that came out today when we are talking about forestry and the ETS more broadly. Part of the reason that Labour is cautiously supporting this bill is because, while it does go some way, what we really want to see is a review of significant further work that needs to be done with respect to the role of carbon forestry in the ETS. Basically, there needs to be a full review\u2014a thorough review\u2014of the ETS that needs to be done, with an emphasis on the role of carbon forestry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003EI also want to point to the fact that when it comes to climate change and the urgency with which we should be addressing climate change, I have made the point that here in the ETS, one of the issues is that there\u2019s no real obligation to cut emissions. I want to point to a number of things that this Government has cut\u2014when it comes to the Climate Emergency Response Fund, the Clean Car Discount, a number of transport initiatives, energy-efficiency rebates, and so much more that would have actually addressed the issue\u2014that also increased the cost of living and takes us backwards as a nation. While we cautiously support this, we\u2019re not thrilled about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4137ef6b6b841e2ac62e8c46367ec05\u0022 data-id=\u002214692a8db5764b64bae162fa6e0e1f79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4137ef6b6b841e2ac62e8c46367ec05\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214692a8db5764b64bae162fa6e0e1f79\u0022\u003EMILES ANDERSON (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m very pleased to stand and speak on the Climate Change Response (Emissions Trading Scheme\u2014Forestry Conversion) Amendment Bill. I think this strikes a pragmatic balance between what private landowners can do on their land and what communities are concerned about when it comes to the afforestation of good land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4137ef6b6b841e2ac62e8c46367ec05\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019ve got is land that will be land use capability classes 1 to 5, having only 25 percent of that land eligible for carbon credits; 15,000 hectares a year of class 6 land to go into a ballot; and, within reason, classes 7 and 8 will be exempted. I think this is quite a good balance. I\u2019m looking forward to the review that will happen, because it\u2019s only with the benefit of hindsight we\u2019ll be able to tweak the bill. So with that, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022e28ab8654cf641c781aa2939221e5e1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e28ab8654cf641c781aa2939221e5e1f\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Now, I am a permanent member of the Environment Committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d56da8e5c2f4e0bbee1185364a080fe\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Great committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226710519b3f4541cbbba0ed272dca2dc1\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Great committee\u2014a busy committee, it definitely is, and we have some good conversations on the Environment Committee. But I made way for my colleagues who have spoken earlier on this bill for most of the bill, so I didn\u2019t hear all the submissions that everybody else did, but I appreciate that a lot of people did put some very thoughtful work into their submissions, and I\u2019ll reference one of them later. I thank those people for doing that and note that this bill has gone through a shortened time frame with the select committee, and that is a shame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003ELike my colleagues have said, Labour is supporting this bill, but we don\u2019t think it\u2019s going to fix all the things that people want it to fix, and those things we\u2019ve heard from the other side of the House tonight. The Minister for the Environment, when reading her speech, talked about how it was \u201Ca response to local rural communities\u201D, I think were her words. I know from when I and my colleagues have spoken with rural communities that this is a real issue, that it\u2019s one of the first things that will come up. People will say, \u201CWe are really worried about our community schools going. We are really worried, then, that there won\u2019t be the buses to take kids to school. We\u2019re worried that there can be no community halls, those sorts of things, because there are more and more forests, and in those forests, there\u2019re lots of pests.\u201D\u2014we hear about that as well, the deer and the pigs that come out of a lot of these forests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EThe forests that they are often talking about\u2014and it\u2019s important that we distinguish between different types of forests here\u2014are carbon forests. Those are forests where the incentive to plant those trees has not been for a shelter belt and it\u2019s not been for timber; it\u2019s been to get some emissions trading scheme (ETS) credits, and that is what this bill is trying to deal with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EThere is also other forestry. There are people who plant native trees to improve biodiversity, people who plant native trees for riparian strips and the like, and we know that there\u2019s some work going on for some voluntary biodiversity credits as well. Then, of course, we have plantation forestry so that trees are grown to be chopped down and made into something, not just for any carbon units. Of course, if we\u2019re thinking about climate change in general, having that forestry is important for New Zealand because wood is a lower-emissions product than, say, concrete. We know if we want a lowcarbon economy, then wood is definitely part of that, and forestry in New Zealand is part of it as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EBut this bill is only addressing that carbon forestry part of forestry, and it\u2019s trying to change that incentive whereby the ETS incentivises planting of these exotic trees to remove some of that incentive from some farmland. There are a lot of \u201Csome\u201Ds in that sentence, because, of course, we\u2019ve heard that it doesn\u2019t apply to all land classes. It does apply to classes 1 to 5, but even within that class 1 to 5\u00A0land, you can still plant some of your land in carbon forestry\u2014so land that\u2019s in the ETS. So that\u2019s 25\u00A0percent of beautiful, most productive land that can still be in carbon forestry, and then for land use class 6, 25 percent of that can be in carbon forestry as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EThen, in addition, there\u2019s this special ballot process. I did sit on some of the select committee\u2014not all of it, as I referred to earlier\u2014and I never got to the bottom of why it was that Ministers have chosen to have a ballot. I cannot understand the policy rationale for it, and I haven\u2019t heard it from the other side this evening either. Maybe that\u2019s something that will come out in the committee of the whole House stage of the debate, because it seems to be, one, very complicated, and, two, undermining the general policy direction of the bill. However, as my colleagues have said, this is a step in the right direction, and it is better than nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EWhat I think is particularly interesting about this bill from a policy perspective is that it\u2019s saying to those landowners, to the farmers, even though we have these market solutions for reducing our net carbon\u2014not gross carbon but net carbon\u2014you can\u2019t use them on most of your land. We heard, I think, Mark Patterson acknowledge that this is a Government that says that it\u2019s very much into private property rights, but, of course, this bill is the opposite of being protective of private property rights. It\u2019s telling farmers that they must limit what they do on their land in terms of carbon forestry, and I think that that is particularly interesting when we also have many policy conversations going on at the moment about this Government\u2019s replacement of the Resource Management Act (RMA).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EOf course, the previous Government repealed the Resource Management Act and brought in the Spatial Planning Act and the Natural and Built Environment Act. Those were repealed by this Government, and this Government now says that they\u2019re going to overhaul and replace the RMA with some new legislation. Whenever they talk about this new legislation, there is always the phrase that it will be based on the enjoyment of private property rights, which seems to be in totally the opposite direction from where this bill is going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EThen there are conversations, again\u2014all public conversations\u2014to be able to have that enjoyment of property rights, about whether or not there needs to be compensation for regulatory taking. That is where, at one moment in time, you can do something on your land and then, at a later moment in time, you can\u2019t do it\u2014maybe that\u2019s chopping down indigenous biodiversity or removing some heritage item or something like that\u2014then you should be compensated. Presumably, that compensation would come from ratepayers or taxpayers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a lot of big talk, particularly from the ACT Party, about regulatory takings, yet all three Government parties are in support of this bill, this bill that is limiting what farmers can do with their land. I\u2019m interested to understand the rationale for those two very separate positions, and I haven\u2019t heard it from any of the Government members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also another disappointment of this bill\u2014and it\u2019s reflected in the submission from the Environmental Defence Society\u2014that the regulatory impact statement didn\u2019t consider the environmental impacts associated with exotic forests. It could have done this, but it didn\u2019t, and there doesn\u2019t seem to have been much consideration of whether the combination of this bill and the existing ETS settings will mean that more people are incentivised to plant carbon forests on those land classes\u00A07 and 8. What are the consequences of more pine trees, more exotic trees, being planted on that type of land? These are things that have not been explored very well in the debate so far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EOf course, going back to the start of the problem definition, as my colleague talked about before, it is fundamentally that this Government is relying on the ETS as their main way to achieve net zero, something that the National Party signed up to in 2019 with that zero carbon legislation. We have the removal of all these other policies, and some of them were named before. There\u2019s no Clean Car Discount, there\u2019s no CERF, there\u2019s no GIDI\u2014that\u2019s a whole lot of acronyms\u2014there\u2019s no mention of circular economy now, anything like that. There\u2019s a good article today on Radio New Zealand that lists all of those programmes that are gone. The entire focus of this Government is trying to offset carbon emissions rather than trying to reduce them, and that is a great shame. It would be wonderful if, instead of sitting over there and giggling, this Government actually did something to cut emissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204710f6da0824742bb6c3d5c555c4324\u0022\u003EHon Matt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, nothing wrong with giggling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222f154069d8a4e3a9ade1331f325fd49\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Nothing wrong with giggling? Well, I encourage that party to stop the giggling and actually take some serious action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002242664a30b2084eecaa14aec43ec7cf61\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac4be6f1184c4b9b905937f2f47cbae3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242664a30b2084eecaa14aec43ec7cf61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac4be6f1184c4b9b905937f2f47cbae3\u0022\u003EDANA KIRKPATRICK (National\u2014East Coast):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is my pleasure to speak on the Climate Change Response (Emissions Trading Scheme\u2014Forestry Conversion) Amendment Bill. What a great piece of work from our Minister. I just want to say it is very important to us on the coast, this bill\u2014on the East Coast, in my electorate. Whilst I don\u2019t always agree with everything Cushla says, I do tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242664a30b2084eecaa14aec43ec7cf61\u0022\u003EIt is a great piece of work for us. We are banning large-scale farm-to-forestry conversion on highquality farmland. We are putting the rural economy back where it needs to be, and our Government is backing farmers, restoring balance, and making sure the emissions trading scheme doesn\u2019t come at the cost of the New Zealand rural economy. With that, I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u002281c798cb108c492d8e64e615257fd5c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281c798cb108c492d8e64e615257fd5c2\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: A five-minute call\u2014Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d9b529755d2b4a78a373977edaec4209\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb620da9508c476cbf2a70b690a0e46e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d9b529755d2b4a78a373977edaec4209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb620da9508c476cbf2a70b690a0e46e\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka, otir\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. E t\u016B ana au ki te wah i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero m\u0101 Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i te p\u014D nei m\u014D t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire e h\u0101ngai ana ki te tai\u0101huatanga o te taiao. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d9b529755d2b4a78a373977edaec4209\u0022\u003EKo te mahi a t\u0113nei pire he t\u0101mi i ng\u0101 whenua o te kaip\u0101mu hei panoni i te whenua ngahere hei p\u0101mu m\u014D ng\u0101 whenua puta noa o te motu. Ko \u0113tehi o ng\u0101 mahi e whaka\u016Bngia e t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire he aukati i ng\u0101 kaip\u0101mu ki \u0113tehi o ng\u0101 conversions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d9b529755d2b4a78a373977edaec4209\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Speaker, indeed greetings to all of us in the House. I stand to give voice to the statements on behalf of the M\u0101ori Party tonight regarding this particular bill, which concerns certain environmental factors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d9b529755d2b4a78a373977edaec4209\u0022\u003EThis bill seeks to disincentivise the conversion of farmer\u2019s lands from forest land to farm land for lands all around the country. Some of the activities being confirmed by this particular bill include disallowing some of these conversions by farmers.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d9b529755d2b4a78a373977edaec4209\u0022\u003EIt is limiting the volume of hectares available for conversions per year, setting out provisions for farmland planting to ensure flexibility and choice, and setting out protections for M\u0101ori-owned land in line with Treaty obligations. There are exemptions on certain M\u0101ori land blocks. This bill provides for exemptions on certain M\u0101ori lands from emissions trading scheme (ETS) restrictions in this bill, principally, M\u0101ori land held under Te Ture Whenua Maori Act 1993, land which was changed to general land under the Maori Affairs Amendment Act 1967, and land under a Treaty settlement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d9b529755d2b4a78a373977edaec4209\u0022\u003EThe consultation process within this bill: Te Tari Whakatau and a small number of M\u0101ori stakeholders were consulted on identifying the types of M\u0101ori land that fall within these categories. Officials concluded that the exemptions provide certainty for M\u0101ori land owners, an opportunity for M\u0101ori to exercise rangatiratanga. M\u0101ori and iwi stakeholders were also consulted alongside the public on this policy as a part of the second emissions reduction plan. The M\u0101ori entities spoken to were in favour of an exemption and were in agreement with specified exemptions included in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d9b529755d2b4a78a373977edaec4209\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2019s position on this bill is that protections for M\u0101ori land do not outweigh the negative impact on taiao and the reduction of broader environment protections, because M\u0101ori land only accounts for a small number of land-use activities in Aotearoa. This bill also undermines the integrity of the ETS, and it weakens it further by removing methane, which only limits the scheme further. Te\u00A0P\u0101ti M\u0101ori opposes this bill because it lacks intergenerational integrity through failure to include methane.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d9b529755d2b4a78a373977edaec4209\u0022\u003EWe support the assertion of kai sovereignty, and I\u2019m not totally convinced that the current proposal is effective enough in providing and ensuring that all wh\u0101nau in Aotearoa have access to kai. The submission made by Waikato-Tainui about the process is: \u201CWaikato-Tainui urges the Crown to work with iwi to co-design the regulatory framework and consider allocation approaches that reflect the Treaty partnership. We recommend the Government adopts a more reasonable time line that ensures the public, especially those most impacted, can participate meaningfully in the legislative process.\u201D This could include a separate category or allocation stream for iwi applicants, or weighted criteria that recognise the distinct context of M\u0101ori land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d9b529755d2b4a78a373977edaec4209\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori does not support this bill. We cannot support a legislative process that undermines fair engagement, proper scrutiny, and Treaty responsibilities. T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220e8c6fe07f4247cbab2076ac4bf1551a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Climate Change Response (Emissions Trading Scheme\u2014Forestry Conversion) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First\u00A08.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 20\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000616\u0022\u003EBill read a second time. \u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e563b85d57be43139902240e650fa800\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e563b85d57be43139902240e650fa800\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I declare the House in committee for consideration of the Public Works (Critical Infrastructure) Amendment Bill, the Hauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana Marine Protection Bill, and the Crimes Legislation (Stalking and Harassment) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d42b035095a44468b513a186b8c518b1\u0022\u003EHouse in Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226bbdadf52c2c4bd0833ccef3c9a85876\u0022\u003EHouse in Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7e3a1d84b054b2086d8471bc35d86d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7e3a1d84b054b2086d8471bc35d86d1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Public Works (Critical Infrastructure) Amendment Bill, the Hauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana Marine Protection Bill, and the Crimes Legislation (Stalking and Harassment) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229eef1a583d044c40826d328e9b34c923\u0022\u003EPublic Works (Critical Infrastructure) Amendment Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bdab196872304391a1023170f5dc6b01\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ff1815a454144037822ea2c3c5cdb84e\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments relating to acquisition or taking of land for critical infrastructure projects\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022 data-id=\u00226ce5bfc5ca184fcd8b4af6f4b71ba5dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ce5bfc5ca184fcd8b4af6f4b71ba5dc\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: We come first to the Public Works (Critical Infrastructure) Amendment Bill. We begin with a debate on Part 1. This is the debate on clauses 4 and 5, \u201CAmendments relating to acquisition or taking of land for critical infrastructure projects\u201D. The question is that Part 1 stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8d53b0916d8406289c3a0b161a70d4e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8d53b0916d8406289c3a0b161a70d4e\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, good evening, Mr Chair and members of the committee. I\u2019d like to start by making a few introductory remarks relevant to this part, and, actually, at the risk of testing the patience of the Chair at this early stage, more generally regarding the bill. Thanks to those who have provided input through the select committee process, as acknowledged at the second reading, in anticipation of a good discussion and debate tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EAs colleagues will know, the purpose of the legislation is to ensure that the Public Works Act regime, which of course is crucial for acquiring land and managing land to support infrastructure projects\u2014and, of course, it\u2019s ownership interests, but also other interests, as well. We need that to support infrastructure projects for the benefit of the people of New Zealand as a whole, but respecting, of course, the private property rights of landowners from whom that land or that ownership or other interests in land is taken or held.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EThe finite group to which this legislation, as critical infrastructure, applies relates to approvals under Schedule 2 of the Fast-track Approvals Act\u2014public works, obviously, within that regime\u2014and also the roads of national significance as defined and as listed in the Government Policy Statement on land transport 2024. Often, there are costly delays in terms of acquiring land\u2014you know, in the ownership sense, again, or some other interest in land relating to these projects\u2014and colleagues around the House in their respective areas of New Zealand will know that. Of course, the cost properly relates to compensation for landowners\u2014albeit that we could, and indeed will, be more generous in that space\u2014but also the opportunity cost that a community suffers when they don\u2019t have the ability to see that road or rail or other transport network built in a timely fashion, or the flood protection works or other mitigation of natural disaster-type infrastructure, and so on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EWe aim for a faster and fairer regime\u2014and those two concepts are not mutually exclusive in my mind\u2014such that we have an accelerated process being proposed by this legislation that will aim to address the key areas to efficient delivery. Key mechanisms within the bill, and more particularly the part that we\u2019re about to examine, are around early acquisition by agreement. Of course, there are existing mechanisms in the Public Works Act for that, and so this is building on those processes and, more particularly, making them faster, but increasing the compensation levels and also introducing, in terms of the process, a written submission as opposed to the right to object to the Environment Court, where, of course, much of the delay and uncertainty and cost is currently accrued.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EI should be clear for the committee members: \u201Cprotected M\u0101ori land\u201D, as defined under the Public Works Act\u2014which is detail that we may wish to explore tonight\u2014cannot be acquired under the critical infrastructure process. For various reasons, we thought it proper to enable or continue the regime for protected M\u0101ori land, as defined, to continue to have recourse to the Environment Court, but to enable premium payments eligibility for such land if that is ultimately acquired for a critical infrastructure project using the standard Public Works Act process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EIn summary, the changes outlined will enable the faster delivery of critical infrastructure that we need and deserve as Kiwis to support and grow our society and the economy. Finally, I give notice to the House that I intend to introduce an Amendment Paper that makes minor and technical changes, some literally in the realm of changing the grammar of singular to plural\u2014or perhaps it\u2019s the other way around\u2014updating cross references, and nothing particularly substantive. But again, colleagues may wish to examine that Amendment Paper\u2014or, indeed, any of their own\u2014and I look forward to that debate and discussion tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022 data-id=\u00223fc22f9112874cf88c5c5c79c3d548fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223fc22f9112874cf88c5c5c79c3d548fc\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chairman, thank you very much. Labour will have some decent discussions and questions with the Minister as we go through this bill. We do support it, but it is a very important piece of legislation, because it goes to the heart of, I guess, a process that has been respected across New Zealand for a long, long time. Building the critical infrastructure the community needs, as the Minister said, is something that I think most parties and most Governments have always supported. But the balance between property rights and property responsibility, I guess you might say\u2014public responsibility\u2014is the balance that we\u2019re always trying to keep here. At a time when the Government\u2019s pushing through reforms to the Resource Management Act (RMA) with the focus on property rights, they\u2019re also bringing into the House this piece of legislation which is actually stepping over private property rights\u2014for good cause, we accept. The particular projects that the Minister mentions here are in the schedules, and they\u2019re specific projects. So this bill doesn\u2019t provide unlimited changes to the Public Works Act, but it does, in Part 1, as I say, relate to the acquisition or taking of land for critical infrastructure projects. They are listed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003EThe question I have of the Minister is: did he or did the Government consider actually expanding this out to be wider, to take into account necessary changes or these changes relating to future projects? If so, why was the decision made not to include them in the schedules here? I mean, it is a critical one, because I think there will be people\u2014submitters were suspicious of what the Government was doing here, overriding their rights, not providing them with the ability to automatically review, to go to the Environment Court. As stated, what this does is take away the ability of landowners to go to the Environment Court. They can go and seek a review to the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003EThe Minister for Land Information holds quite a critical role. While I do respect Land Information New Zealand as a Government agency and the processes that they have run, this is aimed to fast track or to speed up the process. In doing so\u2014anyone who runs too fast will trip over from time to time. If this Government is focused on an obsession with property rights, because that\u2019s what it sounds like in some pieces of legislation or changes, then how\u2014and the Minister may be able to explain\u2014have they reached the balance between enhancing property rights through the changes to the RMA and then being prepared to actually roll over them here? It is a fine balance. I think we have always, as a Labour Party, attempted to find that right balance, probably ensuring that the wider public objectives are first and foremost. Of course, property rights are to be respected, but ultimately, you know, we\u2019re here for a short time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003ESo the questions to the Minister are really around those two questions, and maybe he\u2019ll take a call and answer. I have plenty of other points to raise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u00223bba746581b7486fa968417e40a9ba07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bba746581b7486fa968417e40a9ba07\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I\u2019m grateful to the member Damien O\u2019Connor for those thoughtful questions, and I know that as a former Minister for Land Information himself, he will understand some of the balance and the considerations that we are seeking to achieve. He has rightly referred to that balance of rights and responsibilities, and I\u2019m grateful to him for mentioning his faith in the officials of the Land Information New Zealand network, regime, or agency, even. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EI think he\u2019s right to pose the question about whether changes could be more broadly applied. Obviously, we\u2019ve got specific projects listed in new Schedule 2A, and the short answer is yes, in the sense that we know that reform to the Public Works Act more generally is needed. There is the work of an expert panel that we\u2019ve convened\u2014an independent panel, I hasten to add\u2014to consider ways that we could make the Public Works Act more efficient in a targeted manner. It is not undertaking a full review of its provisions\u2014for example, it is not looking at questions of disposal\u2014but it is to think more generally about changes that could help in all manner of public works infrastructure. There is work under a separate piece of legislation that is also making its way through this House, or it will continue to do so, as opposed to the critical infrastructure - specific amendments that are being made by this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EIn terms of his point around running fast and at the risk of tripping over, again I note that\u2014well, if one is to run fast and not trip over, one needs good balance. There\u2019s that point again, and I suppose in terms of the mechanisms that provide some comfort to a landowner that his, her, or their property rights will be respected, not only should there be, obviously, robust decision-making by the decision maker, of course\u2014being the Minister for Land Information or the local government entity, as the case may be\u2014backed by official advice, but if that decision maker were to be unreasonable, then by definition that would be potentially subject to judicial review in the High Court, as compared with the Environment Court. There is a measure of a separate branch of Government protection in terms of testing those rights, and recourse to the Land Valuation Tribunal will remain such that in a dispute over the deemed or determined value of the land, that would still be available to landowners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EAgain, we\u2019re seeking to strike a balance, and I suppose that the only other point in terms of the weight of decision making that would rest with the Minister for Land Information is that I do note, of course\u2014as the member himself will know, having held that role\u2014that one decides on matters of overseas investment for those seeking, as overseas persons, to invest in this country under the overseas investment regime. While that\u2019s obviously a separate matter from this, it\u2019s not without precedence, even in terms of that particular ministerial role, to be asked to make reasonably weighty decisions in terms of property rights and dealings with land in a way that we expect and hope in the case of both regimes will be, ultimately, to the benefit of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022b054dd8fedec494eb89f7e2a75d5ed79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b054dd8fedec494eb89f7e2a75d5ed79\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I am just interested in Amendment Paper 350, in the Minister\u2019s name. At clause 5, there is a new insertion of 39AAH(1AA)(a)(v), and it\u2019s about notices of requirements that were lodged under the Natural and Built Environment Act 2023\u2014an Act I was just talking about in relation to a different bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EUnder that Act\u2014the Natural and Built Environment Act\u2014there was a fast-track process, and even though the Natural and Built Environment Act got repealed in December 2023, not all of it got repealed, and some of the fast-track provisions were not repealed and remained in existence. Then, in 2024, this Government introduced and passed its own Fast-track Approvals Act\u2014quite different. But what this amendment is doing is referring to fast-track that was in the Natural and Built Environment Act and was, I think, rolled over; I presume that this is what it is. It was alive, the fast-track process, for some time\u2014around a year, maybe. Maybe the Minister can comment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EBut my question, really, is to try and work out how many projects will be included in this, by this amendment. How many projects did the Natural and Built Environment Act 2023\u2019s fast-track provisions allow to roll on a bit longer than when the rest of the Act was appealed in 2023? How many projects actually had a designation, or altered designation\u2014and if the Minister doesn\u2019t know, is he able to find out\u2014and what analysis has been done to work out how many of those projects will be included, and, therefore, included in this legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u0022401808cc14994c7da8b86a0c09b8d901\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022401808cc14994c7da8b86a0c09b8d901\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I think the answer to that will be knowable\u2014it\u2019s not known by me now. I will undertake, if possible within the period of time within the committee of the whole House stage, to furnish the member with that. She\u2019s more familiar than me with the Natural and Built Environment Act\u2014indeed, before its creation in the form of legislation\u2014so she will no doubt be intimately aware of the way in which that provided some manner of fast-track process, albeit with a lower case \u201Cf\u201D and \u201Ct\u201D, as opposed to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271c6875b79c5408cac56489eda5322a0\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, it was faster. No, it was faster; it just didn\u2019t override the environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e42f49af5afc434eae95195e6ddd23f8\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: OK, well, the member can have her views and debating points on other legislation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224be1466fa07943d7b7ed8ae250c89380\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, and I do\u2014and I do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250fd4cde12fa47b88cab4d5740dc5463\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: And she does, but in another forum would be more appropriate\u2014I know that the Chair is thinking. If it\u2019s possible to know that answer\u2014and we have excellent colleagues from Land Information New Zealand, including no less an authority than the commissioner for lands\u2014then I will certainly share that with the member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EIn fact, it might be right now that I\u2019m able to say that the fast-track provisions remain in existence\u2014those under the Natural and Built Environment Act, before, of course, the Fast-track Approvals Act, as the member knows. In terms of how many were applied for under that prior legislation, officials are aware of one project: Cambridge to Piarere. If there are any more than that, then no doubt we\u2019ll hear in due course. But for now the answer is just that one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022c86656f14df247d0bf880515578c34c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c86656f14df247d0bf880515578c34c6\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Just to clarify: that was a roading project that you were referring to there, Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u0022087912dc650b427686b251abad065ac1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022087912dc650b427686b251abad065ac1\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1dcb92498b2411693d3349a1df5d98d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1dcb92498b2411693d3349a1df5d98d\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. My query, really\u2014well, let\u2019s begin with that. We do certainly have an infrastructure deficit, as the regulatory impact statement points to. I\u2019m mindful that it\u2019s been 63 years since we\u2019ve had rail-enabled ferries until today, and this is clearly an infrastructure deficit that sits at this Government\u2019s table. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EBut I note here that the options here are going to be limited to critical infrastructure projects. The query I really have is about what does the Government consider critical. When I look through the list, I can certainly see that there are some that I could consider critical. I think the Ashburton second urban bridge is certainly needed, given the flood risk we\u2019ve had. We\u2019ve been cut off before. But not all roading projects would be, arguably, critical in this, so I\u2019m interested in the criteria that the Minister for Land Information is using to determine what critical infrastructure is. \u201CCritical\u201D, to my thinking, is more that lifeline infrastructure, and there are many, many projects that are listed here that clearly are not lifeline infrastructure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003ENow, I think that what is also missing here is what is the carbon cost of those infrastructure projects, or is there any evaluation of what the carbon cost might be? If we had, for example, a Ministry of Green Works, that would be a requirement for critical infrastructure, for lifeline infrastructure, to measure the effectiveness and its carbon content as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EA question I have for the Minister is: is there any ability and willingness to look at the carbon cost and whether we can tie down \u201Ccritical\u201D to a tighter definition? At the moment, it doesn\u2019t seem as though many of the projects are as essential or critical as the bill tends to argue for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EAlso, as the Minister will note in our differing view, we really have concerns about the rights of M\u0101ori and other landowners to appeal against a Government decision to take their land. If we could make a strong case why we needed infrastructure, whether it was lifeline infrastructure, and in what way it was critical, it might be more acceptable to override those concerns about taking land in a shorter time frame, but this truncated process doesn\u2019t seem to hold water when we haven\u2019t got a good definition of why it\u2019s so important to make this change here and now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003ESo coming back, I guess, to my main points, if we can better define what critical infrastructure is, whether it is in fact lifeline infrastructure, and whether we are going to be able to look at its environmental and its climate impacts\u2014whether those can be considerations that we have as well\u2014I think that would be really, really helpful, if the Minister would like to respond. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u00221e62ddd389774930bb4c5a615f57cbdb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e62ddd389774930bb4c5a615f57cbdb\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair, and I thank the member Scott Willis for his thoughtful questions. He\u2019s critical, in the other sense of that phrase, of, I suppose, the way in which we\u2019ve arrived at the definition of \u201Ccritical\u201D, potentially. But in any case, it is a certain matter that the projects listed in the schedule are those included in critical infrastructure. By way of definition, I suppose I can do no better than to point to those specifically and to say that the reason they have been included in the schedule is precisely because they are capable of approval under Schedule 2 of the Fast-track Approvals Act, or of being roads of national significance as defined in the Government policy statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EOf course, reasonable minds can differ on the criticality or the essential nature of such projects. I note, in the case of a couple that affect my own electorate\u2014the Northwest Rapid Transit, for example, which is going to be about public transport infrastructure to serve the growing north-west Auckland. You know, we in north-west Auckland certainly regard that as quite critical and essential. I should actually note, for the sake of propriety, that any matters in here that would relate to my own electorate for which I\u2019ve been advocating would not be handled by me particularly as the decision maker, notwithstanding that it would be, all things being equal, the Minister for Land Information. I would simply recuse myself, and, indeed, I have indicated that I won\u2019t be a decision maker for reasons of, effectively, having a conflict of interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EJust to return to the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s question, particularly about the heritage of the Cambridge to Piarere project, I note that as listed it states that it\u2019s to develop roading and associated infrastructure \u201Cfrom the southern end of the Waikato Expressway at Cambridge to the intersection of State Highway 1 and State Highway 29 at Piarere\u201D, which, to the member\u2019s point, I suppose some might regard as critical and some might not. In any case, they are included for the reasons that I\u2019ve set out previously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EAs to whether the carbon costs or other sustainability considerations have been taken into account, the answer is: not in this legislation. But by virtue of having been included under those other regimes, it\u2019s possible to have a view on the economic and also social and also environmental benefits and costs associated with those under those separate regimes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EIn terms of M\u0101ori land owners, as I\u2019ve stated, protected M\u0101ori land is defined as separate from the regime in the sense that such landowners will have recourse to the Environment Court still, for historical reasons\u2014acknowledging that previous versions of the Public Works Act and previous administrations have used that as a mechanism for confiscation of land, and also acknowledging the complexities of some of the ways in which those lands are held. The definition of those is knowable from section 11 of the Infrastructure Funding and Financing Act 2020. I won\u2019t set them all out here today, unless members wish me to read them, but suffice to say there\u2019s a pretty broad swathe of types of land that are included as protected M\u0101ori land and therefore outside this regime, except for the purpose of eligibility of premium payments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022 data-id=\u00229e2492bbde754ac88f1535afc47e20da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e2492bbde754ac88f1535afc47e20da\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Just for the awareness of the committee, Part 1 and Schedule\u00A02 are two separate debates, but they are linked\u2014acknowledging that the Minister and questioners so far have noticed that link, but just for other members as well. So if you are talking about Schedule 2, it has to be in relationship to how it relates to Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022 data-id=\u002211fd1b5421af49e8bd15a96ccda85900\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211fd1b5421af49e8bd15a96ccda85900\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te Tiamana. Just bringing the Minister to his Amendment Paper 350, the insertion in clause 5 of the new section 39AAH(1AA)(a)(v). Thank you for that explanation about the project here being State Highway 1, Cambridge to Piarere. That\u2019s helpful, because we do find ourselves now in need of an explanation, then, about why this is a listed project. It is one of the projects which is set out in Schedule 2. Given that it is in Schedule 2, we then find ourselves scratching our heads about why you would need this new special provision in (v) to empower a project which has already been consented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EIt seems here that what has happened is there will be projects which between August 2024 and December 2024, when it was \u201Clive\u201D, as the Hon Rachel Brooking has described the legislation\u2014you know, it was in force and then was repealed, and then there were provisions which, because of the transitional and savings provisions of the repeal, continued to be in force. Are there projects which in that period were consented under the old regime and are trying to be saved by this (v)?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EThe reason why we are asking is because we want to understand if there aren\u2019t projects there, as I think the Minister has said, then what is the providence of this, and is it because there might have been projects that have been missed and we don\u2019t know about which the Minister might then want to use these special provisions for? That\u2019s relevant because, you know, to the average person on the street, we are considering a regime here where if you were the subject of a public works notice, say, in my electorate around the Puhinui train station, and you are a very aggrieved landowner there and are working with your local MP\u2014hardworking local MP; you have lots of public meetings about this issue\u2014then you are not eligible for this process. But if you are one of these people who is now newly eligible for this new regime, you are eligible for a somewhat more generous process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EIt does make a big difference to people. That\u2019s why I\u2019m asking. If it\u2019s not needed, then why is (v) there? And if it is needed, then there are some other projects that are not set out in Schedule 2, which we are talking about here\u2014or is it that it\u2019s just unclear and this is a sort of belts and braces approach? That would be helpful if we could set that out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EI also have some questions about the M\u0101ori land issues here. It\u2019s really important to Labour\u2019s support for this bill that we have robust protections around M\u0101ori land. The committee was well served in hearing from the New Zealand Transport Agency that they did not require any land defined as protected M\u0101ori land for the first three projects. That was a helpful discussion to be able to have. It\u2019s also helpfully set out in the regulatory impact statement that Crown Law was able to meet with Land Information New Zealand officials to work through any M\u0101ori land issues there and did not flag up, in the beginning, any issues for the implementation of this new provision that would affect M\u0101ori land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EWe just want to square off with the Minister whether anything in his new Amendment Paper would affect M\u0101ori land, whether it\u2019s been through the same process with Crown Law, and also whether he considered any amendments working through the committee process. Obviously, a huge number of submitters to that process raised issues with fairness for M\u0101ori land owners, and for not only a deep mistrust in the State from a historical perspective but now there are real concerns there that I think we will acknowledge in this House that owners of M\u0101ori land still have around State-sanctioned takings of M\u0101ori land. This is still something that affects wh\u0101nau M\u0101ori, and it is not a historical injustice; this something that they deal with now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003ESo we want to be clear that if we are engaged in changing the way that M\u0101ori land will be taken for these projects, in fact M\u0101ori land owners are in a better position, because this is what we think on this side of the House\u2014that these provisions will empower M\u0101ori land owners to be able to be involved with the Crown at the beginning of these projects and to have, sort of, an insight into what is developed there, and that is really important to our continued support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u00225e45f39d9232429dafb2b866b5328388\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e45f39d9232429dafb2b866b5328388\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and I thank the member for her questions. In relation to the Puhinui train station and other projects that have obtained consent but don\u2019t apply for the regime, the member describes the general problem, of course, of when you introduce legislation that you\u2019re confident will improve or be a more appropriate system, and the question is, then, always to what extent do those part-way through being processed under the previous regime get the benefit, or not, of the new regime. The answer is: those projects that are listed, including the one under the NBE\u2014excuse the shorthand: the Natural and Built Environment Act\u2014are included and those that are not, are not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EI suppose, at least in the case of the likes of Puhinui train station and its associated land acquisitions, with which the members are more familiar than me, they will be affected under the regime that existed already and was known to exist. They\u2019re not any worse off, in the sense that we are now improving the system which will improve lives, we think, for others in relation to other projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EAs for whether M\u0101ori land is affected by the Amendment Paper in my name, the short answer is no. But is the member correct to note that the historical injustice associated with the Public Works Act acquisitions are something to which we should take note and be mindful? The answer, of course, is yes. I acknowledge that point deliberately, upfront, because of course there is that historical uncertainty\u2014or injustice, in fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EIn terms of the point that she\u2019s made around\u2014well, in fact, in the form of Amendment Paper 350, her proposal is that we qualify the ability for this regime to apply where a notice of requirement is lodged under the Natural and Built Environment Act 2023 \u201Conly when that project is well supported by the community it will serve and affect\u201D. I think, as the member I\u2019m sure will know, with her own legal background, that is not nearly certain enough to be able to determine whether a project would be eligible or not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6fc8607f2774dd2a2b8cccbdb292b38\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6fc8607f2774dd2a2b8cccbdb292b38\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman, and I\u2019m sure that people who have tuned in on this debate tonight might not have any idea of what we\u2019re talking about here, and, just to give it a bit of context, it is the process of taking land from people around the country for infrastructural projects. The list, as I\u2019ve referred to before, is in new Schedule 2A, and the process is really important. The Government has made some amendments that we\u2019re supporting, and the Minister for Land Information may be able to answer some questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003EThe first one is around the payment\u2014the compensation, if you like, or call it what you like\u2014and how the Government arrived at that figure. The Transport and Infrastructure Committee did have a look at this, there were submissions on it, and some adjustments were made on the basis of whether the landowner initiated the negotiation or whether it was the Crown, and that made, potentially, a difference between 5 percent and 15 percent for compensation payments. Without, at this stage\u2014because I haven\u2019t referred to M\u0101ori protected land, and that\u2019s in Part 2, and I\u2019ll ask some questions of the Minister there. But on this one, what was the rationale for that, because some people did have views that this might add to the value of land unnecessarily and that there might be some gaming by people who might land bank, and they were just making sure that the taxpayer wasn\u2019t extorted or, I guess, held to ransom\u2014and, indeed, this bill is about speeding up a process where there have been occasions where landowners have held out and have held up critical infrastructure developments. So it is around the intent just to oil the process, I guess, and the Government came out with 5 percent or 15 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003EThe other questions I have are around the time frames. Again, the objective of the bill was to speed things up alongside the fast-track process, and the Government\u2019s proposal for this was that within 10\u00A0days, the officials or the people in the system would have to respond. The select committee had a look at that and said that, actually, it was a bit unreasonable, and so it extended that out to 20 days. I guess that at every step of the way, the question that I have of the Minister is whether he or the officials think that that has then undermined the fast-track objective of the bill. The select committee thought that it was reasonable to have that 20-day period, and then with an obligation, of course, to explain why that, and I think that maybe the Minister can take a call on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003EThey\u2019re reasonable questions. The Transport and Infrastructure Committee has had a thorough look at them, and we\u2019ve tried to make the adjustments to make it work, but does this undermine the objective of the initial proposal, which was to move this quite quickly? Maybe the Minister could give us an update on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9d39639febf4cc38339332866d1bf81\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9d39639febf4cc38339332866d1bf81\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much. I think those are very reasonable questions that enable us to tie out the idea that we seek balance in these matters. The member himself has acknowledged that. I think, as a matter of fairness to the taxpayer\u2014or rather thinking about the opportunity cost for overpaying for land in a way that would mean that we can\u2019t use such funds to fund other infrastructure or other land acquisition for the same project, for that matter. I think it\u2019s a fair question, but the calculation of the Crown, through the Government of the day, but also as advised helpfully by various officials and users of the Public Works Act at the moment, is that we\u2019ve struck a balance whereby we would provide incentive for people to agree at a relatively early stage of the process, thereby avoiding further cost for the Crown or the local government entity, for that matter, and of course for the landowner himself, herself, or themselves. In striking that balance, we\u2019ve set the values of 5 percent and 15 percent for those purposes of incentive and recognition. We think that strikes an appropriate balance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EWe would hope that people wouldn\u2019t landbank in anticipation of enjoying greater rights under that regime. I suppose that is theoretically possible at least. They would have to be very far-sighted to do that, but, again, I acknowledge at least a technical possibility of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EIn terms of the balance around the time frames, I thought that the suggestion of the select committee to extend the period within which an objection can be made was a reasonable one\u2014a helpful one, indeed. So the change from 10 working days to 20 working days is acknowledged and accepted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022 data-id=\u00227df2b55ffacf4a01aa31aada898b4abc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227df2b55ffacf4a01aa31aada898b4abc\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Mr Chair, thank you. I want to thank the Minister for his responses there. The Minister was in the House when I made a contribution on the second reading of this and indicated that we did have a couple of issues that we would look to have the Minister respond to in committee stage. Before we move to that, there are two areas that the Minister has commented on that I\u2019d like to ask him for some clarity on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EThe first is around his reference to projects that are in Schedule 2, and I don\u2019t want to refer to them at this point in time, specifically, but he talked about if there was a project that he, as a local member, would have some form of advocacy around\u2014that, effectively, he as Minister would be removing himself from that decision-making process. Now, that, to be fair, is not something that the select committee thought about. There\u2019s nothing in here that indicates that. I\u2019m assuming that the good Minister wants to follow conflicts of interest and take an ethical approach. But my question to him is: what does that look like? Where does the line sit? Is this something that aligns itself with the Cabinet Manual, or can he just talk us through his response a little bit more specifically around that? When we look at Schedule 2, there are a number of largely transport-related pieces of critical infrastructure, and it is highly likely that any Minister for Land Information is likely to be captured in some way or another by one of those projects. That\u2019s the first thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003ESecond thing is: the Minister referred to the opportunity that exists for a person who has an issue with a process to, effectively, take up the judicial review process. Now, this is something that the Transport and Infrastructure Committee did hear about and did make some commentary on. The issue, of course, with any judicial proceedings, about judicial review is that they can be very, very expensive\u2014very expensive\u2014and the focus upon which one of those opportunities might arise is generally very narrow, rather than broad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EMy question to the Minister\u2014and that is a limiting factor, as part of this legislation: is he comfortable with that process? It\u2019s really the only avenue for many people, particularly given that the right to an appeal to the Environment Court would no longer exist. I guess, is it because the nature of the scale of these projects is generally quite significant, and significantly large, and therefore the cost imposts that might follow from that is something that\u2019s not to be considered, or the like? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EThe other issue I wanted to pick up on is just in Part 1\u2014it\u2019s clause 5, \u201CNew Part 2A inserted\u201D. One of the changes, actually, the committee made was changing the title of the new Part 2A from compulsory \u201Ctaking\u201D to compulsory \u201Cacquisition\u201D\u2014I just think it sounds softer, really. But anyhow, when we look at new section 39AAH, there is a new subsection (1)(d) that has been inserted by the select committee. That\u2019s about, basically, the fulsomeness of information, giving information about\u2014well, once a decision has been taken, making sure that an applicant or a submitter is actually given the fullness of the information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EMy question to the Minister is: there are a number of changes through this bill made by the select committee around time frames, reasons, how the notice is to be delivered\u2014all of those sort of aspects. Is he comfortable with the sort of tone of those changes? Has he reflected on this sort of just general tenor of the bill as originally drafted, and has that prompted him to think about some other changes that might be necessary, or not, as a result?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u00223c81edb75b584e289d9cf361ec5eaf09\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c81edb75b584e289d9cf361ec5eaf09\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much. Taking the member\u2019s very thoughtful points in reverse order: I\u2019m very comfortable with the tenor and, indeed, the substance of the suggestions made by the select committee. As I\u2019ve acknowledged previously, I think those were really helpful and I\u2019ve acknowledged particularly in terms of that time frame for notices of objection. That seems to me a worthwhile change that has been suggested and will be accepted in the sense that I\u2019m not proposing that the committee of the whole House stage reverse that in the form of an Amendment Paper. I thank the select committee again for its diligent work in that space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EThe work seemed to me thorough, such that we don\u2019t need to consider further amendments in that similar vein. But, of course, over time it might be the case that suggestions are made in terms of the way that the regime operates in the real world so that changes might suggest themselves either to this regime or to the Public Works Act more generally, in which case I hope that the Government of the day and the relevant Minister at the time would take those very seriously indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EAs for conflicts of interest\u2014and the reason I raise that proactively is it seems to me some combination of the right thing to do from an ethical, legal, and constitutional point of view. Yes, the Cabinet Manual has things to say about Ministers making decisions in which they are conflicted. I suppose, to add a further limb, I would say from a political perspective, actually, it protects me as a local MP to be able to advocate strongly on behalf of my constituents and for the community in terms of those particular projects that affect the rural north of Auckland. This is not my opportunity to give an advertorial for how worthwhile those projects are, so I\u2019ll resume my seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022 data-id=\u00229a44206539504b6e84983a0fbc727712\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a44206539504b6e84983a0fbc727712\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Mine\u2019s quite a general question. Noting our exchange before\u2014and the Minister noted my dislike of this Government\u2019s Fasttrack Approvals Act\u2014I\u2019m interested in the interaction between that terrible piece of law and this piece of law. I say that because right at the start in the select committee\u2019s report back, it\u2019s about \u201C[speeding] up the process for acquisition of private land for certain public works\u201D. We know that those works are listed in new Schedule 2A of the bill that we\u2019re not on yet. But then it says that \u201CThe list of projects is based on the public works listed in Schedule 2 of the Fast-track Approvals Act 2024 and the Roads of National Significance identified in the Government Policy Statement on land transport 2024.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EI can understand the sort of policy rationale then of when deciding what\u2019s critical infrastructure, we\u2019ll look at what\u2019s already in these different documents and decide from there what we\u2019re going to put on our list and call critical infrastructure. But I\u2019m wondering if there\u2019s more to it than that, if the bill is actually referring specifically to that Fast-track Approvals Act, and if there could be more projects\u2014and I\u2019m cautious; I don\u2019t want to be talking about Schedule 2 when we\u2019re not there yet. But just how that critical infrastructure is defined in relation to fast track\u2014is it just a general policy position, or is it legislated for somewhere in the bill that I haven\u2019t come across yet that says that critical infrastructure has to be\u2014I can\u2019t see it in the definition\u2014something that\u2019s listed in the Fast-track Approvals Act or the roads of national significance or the Government policy statement? Is there a link to that definition somewhere, or is it just that\u2014was the problem: \u201COh, we\u2019re going to have these bits of infrastructure come through and we all know that a real block to a big piece of infrastructure can be the taking of that land, so that\u2019s why you want to speed things up.\u201D, or is there actually a closer link to that one piece of legislation and other Government plans?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u0022d076b865bedd47149c98ad9c59ed7600\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d076b865bedd47149c98ad9c59ed7600\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and I thank the member for her further question. She describes very well the way that we\u2019ve established the eligibility for critical infrastructure to be so, and then she asks if there\u2019s anything more to that. There isn\u2019t. Thank you for the question, however. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EI suppose I should make a general point, which is that critical infrastructure, I suppose, could be considered a tautology. Infrastructure, by its nature, is important, even critical. Some infrastructure might be considered more critical than others in an Orwellian sense, so where one draws the line\u2014reasonable minds can differ as to where it should be drawn, but it\u2019s drawn in the way that is described, I think, pretty clearly in the bill, including, particularly, its schedule.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003ETo return to a point on which I was remiss in not having addressed from our colleague and friend Mr Tangi Utikere, he rightly points out that judicial review processes, like all litigation processes, are expensive. But I would make the obvious point that that also applies, equally, if not more so, to Environment Court processes, which is part of the expense and costs that we\u2019re seeking to avoid with this amended method of raising an objection under this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022 data-id=\u002215535ac1655e40f2ba304854a37d4ba9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215535ac1655e40f2ba304854a37d4ba9\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, for allowing me to take my first call on this legislation. Before I begin my substantive questioning to the Minister, I would like the House to indulge me when I wish all the members here a happy Buwan ng Wika\u2014that\u2019s the National Language Month for the Philippines. I\u2019ve just returned from an excellent event that was sponsored by MP Paulo Garcia, and that was hosted by the Dames of Rizal and\u2014what was that other group, Paulo? The Hiyas group. It was a great event. Fantastic. Thank you for hosting it, Paulo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll turn now to the substance of my contribution, which is the Public Works (Critical Infrastructure) Amendment Bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba13b60bfe86441a8dc86c9cdc636601\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Very decent of you, Mr Hernandez\u2014very decent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ca1d9f079db4652b23bbee0433e2425\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for your indulgence, Mr Chair, and members across the Chamber. My question is around the clause 25A(4)(a)\u2014that\u2019s my first question\u2014and it\u2019s around whether the Minister has a definition of \u201Creasonable\u201D. What is the threshold in which a Minister or the local authority might consider when a request might be reasonable? Is there established case law around this? Is there a definition around it? Are there similar precedents that the Minister can draw upon to illuminate what the definition for \u201Creasonable\u201D might be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003EI have some questions, skipping ahead, around clause 39AAK, under \u201CCompensation payable under this Part\u201D\u2014around (3)(a) and (b); (4)(a), (b), (c)\u2014around the sort of compensation thresholds. I\u2019m just wondering where those figures were derived from. I guess under (3)(a), it was \u201Cequal 5\u00A0percent of the total land value; or (b) $92,000 if 5 percent of the total land value is equal to or more than $92,000\u201D. Under (4), it\u2019s \u201C(a) equal 15 percent of the total land value; or (b) be $5,000 if the 15\u00A0percent of the total land value is equal to or less than $5,000; or (c) be $150,000 if 15 percent of the total land value is equal to or more than $150,000\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003EWhat are these thresholds derived from? Is it that from the parent legislation, or is that something that arose as a result of the consultation? Thank you for the opportunity to wish the members a happy National Language Month, and I\u2019m looking forward to my answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022 data-id=\u0022404bbde2fcf448409b517bdab9452093\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022404bbde2fcf448409b517bdab9452093\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te Heamana. To the Minister for Land Information, I want to bring his attention to page 4 of the original bill\u2014new section 39AAD, inserted by clause 5, which is the exemption for protected M\u0101ori land in Part 1. I think it would be helpful at this point if we were able to also reference some of the projects in Schedule 2 as they apply to that section. I need to ask him about how there are parts that are protected M\u0101ori land within the meaning of the Public Works Act (PWA), but there are also other sorts of land that have M\u0101ori rights and interests associated with them that are exempt from the PWA that are still within scope for the projects that are listed in Schedule 2A, and I\u2019d like him to step us through those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EOne is the marine and coastal area. I\u2019d like to give him an example here. In the Airport to Botany Bus Rapid Transit, there is a bridge between the South Auckland airport connection and the Auckland Airport that is the subject of litigation over the years\u2014a number of negotiations between Auckland Airport and iwi there with customary title in that area. That is not a usual piece of land that could be acquired for public works. Orrs Road is the end of the project in Schedule 2A, so it actually excludes that bridge, but there is M\u0101ori land in that area. It\u2019s a really significant area. Ihum\u0101tao is there. It is the stonefields that have been preserved for a long time because of the way that the airport green belt works and because of the significant tapu areas in that region. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EThere will be a lot of people who are interested and concerned about how we treat those significant land areas under this part. They are exempt from this, but it seems like they are included in Schedule\u00A02A, so I want him to step us through how those pieces of land will be treated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EIt would also help when we\u2019re thinking about how the Amendment Papers then apply, if that Crown Law advice that has been provided to Land Information New Zealand (LINZ) around whether the original bill impacted on M\u0101ori land rights\u2014and Crown Law concluded that it did not. It did not have significant implications for Te Tiriti o Waitangi for LINZ. Could he just give us an assurance that there aren\u2019t other pieces of land which are impacted by any of the amendments where Crown Law has raised concerns, or have they been able to raise concerns? Have we been through that process, which was helpful in the regulatory impact statement in the beginning?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u00220c12703e0836428dadfbc82a79d224a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c12703e0836428dadfbc82a79d224a6\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ll try and do justice to the seriousness of the subject that underpins the questions and the comments made by the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EI suppose just to take a step back briefly, it\u2019s unusual now\u2014and I\u2019ll quantify that in a moment\u2014for M\u0101ori freehold land to be acquired under the Public Works Act. I understand that where acquisition of whenua M\u0101ori is required, current practice is for the Crown, through its agencies, to acquire that by agreement with landowners wherever possible, and use compulsory acquisition only as the last resort, such that M\u0101ori freehold land has not been compulsorily acquired in any case in the last 10 years. I know that Land Information New Zealand\u2019s practices are quite explicit about that. So there is a sound basis as well as, you know, a positive intent in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EIn terms of specific projects, I don\u2019t wish to get myself into trouble by speaking directly to any that the member has raised, although I know she rightly takes an interest in those. I would say, perhaps on a non-exhaustive basis, if I can give a few examples of the type of land that\u2019s explicitly excluded from the critical infrastructure regime that we\u2019re legislating to amend the Public Works Act tonight, but also acknowledge the point she\u2019s made with a couple of examples of land acquisitions that are not available under the Public Works Act in general.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EThe first category, that which is not included as part of the critical infrastructure regime as defined in section 11 of the Infrastructure Funding and Financing Act 2020: M\u0101ori freehold land, M\u0101ori reserves, general land owned by M\u0101ori that was previously M\u0101ori freehold land, and land held by a post-settlement governance entity and acquired under a Treaty settlement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EMoving now to a couple of examples where other legislation means that the M\u0101ori land in question isn\u2019t subject to the Public Works Act regime in the first instance, these include M\u0101ori reservations and M\u0101ori customary land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022af91ca29a6d84c35aad0c9281bc1c95b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af91ca29a6d84c35aad0c9281bc1c95b\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I want to go to page\u00A019 of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee report back, and that is what will be new section\u00A039AAN, \u201CAdjustment to critical infrastructure project descriptions\u201D. What it looks like this new section will do is enable the schedule, that\u2019s not in this part but we will keep half-referring to because it\u2019s critical, obviously. That schedule can be amended by an Order in Council, but there are some criteria in new subsection (2) that limit the scope of that amendment, so it\u2019s got to be a small amendment\u2014I don\u2019t have questions on the wording of that at the moment, but what I\u2019m interested in is new subsection (3), and that says, \u201CTo avoid doubt, no new items may be inserted into [this critical] Schedule \u2026 by an order made under this section.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EMy question is if there is some other clause that I haven\u2019t found in the bill yet that enables the change of that schedule, Schedule 2A, the critical infrastructure list, or is it just that it\u2019s in the primary legislation, so any change to the schedule that\u2019s not one of these minor ones amending the project description or amending the location description\u2014that anything else has to be through amendments in primary legislation, or is there a mechanism somewhere to do it by regulation to amend the schedule?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022819ae751169043dd8acd8330d8a43073\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022819ae751169043dd8acd8330d8a43073\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I think my question follows on from my colleague the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s question, because it is coming back to the definition of \u201Ccritical infrastructure project\u201D, which the Minister for Land Information has argued is possibly a tautology in that every bit of infrastructure has some use value. But having use value is different from being critical. I know that we\u2019re still on Part 1, however the definition that we go to is in new Schedule\u00A02A, inserted by Schedule 2, and the challenge I have here is that when I look at what\u2019s in Schedule\u00A02A, that sort of looks like fast-track projects. So critical infrastructure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222eb8c7c28f734f04a7aadc7b26059a66\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: Can\u2019t see any coalmines in it, though. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e9f0ac724414c49aa2fd71f6775fd3f\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yeah\u2014could well be called something else, and I\u2019m interested in what else might go in there, because it\u2019s certainly true that the Minister is in a Government that has three parts to it. Certainly, parts of the Government are very keen on fossil fuel infrastructure and have argued that we need more fossil fuels, and they\u2019ve also argued that that\u2019s critical. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EIn that sense, it relates to the question I was asking earlier about the carbon cost of infrastructure build. Is it likely that once this bill has passed, we might see in the definition that \u201Ccritical infrastructure\u201D could be defined as oil and gas pipelines, or it could be defined as fossil fuel infrastructure, which will increase our carbon emissions? Is that something that we\u2019re opening the door to through this legislation, because I\u2019m not sure I see that that\u2019s closed off here, and I think it\u2019s very, very clear that what we\u2019re calling critical infrastructure projects at the moment is simply another way of saying \u201Cfast-track projects\u201D. So maybe the title is completely wrong, and maybe it\u2019s the \u201CPublic Works (Fast Track) Amendment Bill\u201D, in that sense\u2014which I\u2019m sure we\u2019ll come back to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EBut my question is really coming back to an earlier question, in part, but also in relation to what loopholes or what doorways are open to the more carbon-intensive and the more polluting projects that could be covered by this term \u201Ccritical infrastructure projects\u201D. If the Minister could respond, I\u2019d really appreciate that. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u00229b1c95d1f1344f7584722693d928bf90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b1c95d1f1344f7584722693d928bf90\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m happy to assure both members who have recently contributed that there is no method of further inclusion or amendment other than that described by Ms Brooking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022 data-id=\u002254e037b30ad14586981e41f6cfd0defc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002254e037b30ad14586981e41f6cfd0defc\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I\u2019ll just go to the removal of the ability for landowners to go to the Environment Court. That is probably at the heart of the changes that have been made here. That was an assumption always in place, that landowners, having received notice of the land to be taken under the Public Works Act, would then have the right to go to the Environment Court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003ESo the question of the Minister for Land Information is: did the Government consider, perhaps, increasing the resources of the Environment Court and actually fast tracking the Environment Court process? That might have been a better alternative than what we\u2019re doing here. I don\u2019t know what the relative resourcing requirements would have been, but this piece of legislation puts in place some reasonably substantive compensation payments that are potentially paid to landowners. If you had boosted, collectively, over the next 10 years, that amount of compensation into the Environment Court and sped up the process with some of the time limits in this piece of legislation, maybe we would have ended up with a higher-trust, more consistent approach. Maybe the Minister can just answer that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003EAs I say, the natural justice issues there are critical, and whatever the Minister, I guess, upholds in this piece of legislation will be tested under the Resource Management Act and the reforms that we hear are coming.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003EThere are some safeguards for private property retained from the Public Works Act into this piece of legislation, but all decisions are subject to judicial reviews. That\u2019s why I, thankfully, have some very focused legal minds here on my side of this debate who are scrutinising this, because it will indeed be through judicial review that we\u2019ll end up with, I guess, some jurisprudence and some precedence that will give us a guideline, because this legislation will be reviewed after three years\u2014it\u2019s written in here. That\u2019s a safeguard, and, hopefully, it will have moved down a positive path.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003EMaybe just the question of the Minister as to whether the resourcing issues have been considered and whether, actually, an enhanced Environment Court process would have been better than what we\u2019ve ended up with, which, effectively, puts any review in the hands of the Minister, who has an interest in driving these projects forward. I\u2019m not saying\u2014and he\u2019s pointed out himself that conflict of interest issues will be addressed and acknowledged, but none the less, a Government in charge, or Minister as part of Cabinet, will be inclined to drive these things forward, in spite of a review that may have been sought from a landowner, that may be justified and could very well be worthy of a reverse decision. Maybe the Minister can take a call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u00220a7e641d7bfa4f72881f6a6f91f4b07f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a7e641d7bfa4f72881f6a6f91f4b07f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. The member the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor says that I may have interest as a member of the Cabinet; I thank him for the promotion. I\u2019m also not a member of the judiciary\u2014whether being a member of the judiciary would represent a promotion or a demotion, we can all have a view. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EThe issues of our court system, the Government\u2019s taking measures, in other ways, to address. The judiciary might wish to join them in that endeavour, but it wouldn\u2019t be appropriate for me to speculate further on that. Resourcing issues are, therefore, outside of my scope constitutionally but also in terms of this debate. But suffice to say that if the Environment Court and other processes were not so slow and uncertain, then it might be that we don\u2019t feel the need for changes to the legislation to ensure a faster and fairer regime. Nevertheless, that\u2019s the situation that confronts us, and in particular instances\u2014that I\u2019m not going to mention in the House now, precisely because they remain in front of New Zealand courts of law\u2014it\u2019s clearly the case that we need a much more expeditious, as well as fair, process for determining these matters and being able to move on as landowners and as communities requiring the benefit of the infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022 data-id=\u002293399afe15284daf8eda5e5ff97c5057\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293399afe15284daf8eda5e5ff97c5057\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u00223a3b20a406f84a418dba9aeeebfad996\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a3b20a406f84a418dba9aeeebfad996\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I\u2019m detecting an eagerness to get on to some of the issues in Part 2 here; however, the Hon Julie Anne Genter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022 data-id=\u00225fd92bfc22894881b57a5c9c8beffd36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225fd92bfc22894881b57a5c9c8beffd36\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. This is my first call in this part, and while the Minister, I think, has been really excellent in addressing the many questions that my colleagues have raised, and many of them have raised questions that I, myself, wanted to raise, I do have a couple of additional questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EI did want to take this opportunity to put on the record the Green Party\u2019s concerns, overall, with the process\u2014the fact that the process was sped up during the select committee, that the select committee was asked to report back faster, so there was a shortened time for consideration at the select committee, and that\u2019s one reason I think we should take a little more time in here. Even though there wasn\u2019t a later report-back date, we were asked to have the submissions open for just a short period of time and report back faster. That was one of the reasons why the Greens didn\u2019t feel we could change our vote to support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EOf course, the other major substantive reason is because if there were to be projects that were taking land for public good, for public infrastructure that\u2019s critically important, it would have to be absolutely clear that those projects were taking us to net zero emissions or, better yet, gross zero emissions. There\u2019s an urgent, urgent need to respond to climate change, and it doesn\u2019t make sense for the Government to be speeding up projects for which we have no sense that they\u2019re actually going to reduce carbon emissions. They might actually make it worse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll speak to the specifics of the projects. I do have some amendments coming to Part 2. But in Part\u00A01, I wanted to come back to clause 39AAD, \u201CException for protected M\u0101ori land\u201D. Now, I take on board the comments that the Minister has made that it\u2019s been over a decade since protected M\u0101ori land has been compulsorily acquired; however, during the submissions at the select committee, we heard a submission from Patricia Grace, who was successful in challenging NZTA taking her land for the K\u0101piti Expressway in 2013-14. Her contention was that had this bill been in place, she would not have been able to take it to the Environment Court. I believe that\u2019s because her land would not have met the definition of protected M\u0101ori land at that point. So I just wanted to seek that clarity from the Minister if that had been considered or if the definition of \u201Cprotected M\u0101ori land\u201D actually would apply to ancestral lands like that. It is quite a tight, narrow definition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re concerned, personally, that clause 39AAD doesn\u2019t provide enough protection for M\u0101ori land that isn\u2019t already in the definition of \u201Cprotected M\u0101ori land\u201D of a reserve. A reserve has subsequently been made on that land, but her contention was that had this bill been in place, and had that project been in Schedule 2, that she would not have been able to protest the Government taking it, and she would not have been successful in securing that land in a reserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EI had another question to the Minister, which, of course, because of the time of the night, I\u2019ve just lost my slight train of thought\u2014sorry about that. I think, ultimately, the submissions that we will make\u2014the proposed Amendment Papers we\u2019ll put forward\u2014primarily apply to Part 2. But I do hope that the Minister can make some comment on protected M\u0101ori land and, in addition, to the concerns raised by my colleague Arena Williams.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u0022ddd4e83c8b3848c498769c1aa1e687c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ddd4e83c8b3848c498769c1aa1e687c7\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and thank you to the member Julie Anne Genter for her questions. I\u2019m happy to make comment and, indeed, repeat my comment regarding protected M\u0101ori land to the extent that it does include, as I stated earlier, M\u0101ori reserves. Also, I\u2019ve pointed out that M\u0101ori reservations are prohibited, as in excluded from the Public Works Act regime in the first place, such that they don\u2019t then become a relevant question as to inclusion or not within the critical infrastructure regime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EI appreciate that reserves and reservations are different, but they\u2019re temptingly close in terms of how they\u2019re written at least, so I felt moved to provide one example of each of those types. I\u2019ve previously explained different bases on which protected M\u0101ori land\u2014or M\u0101ori land in general that might be said to be protected in that other, more broad sense of the phrase\u2014won\u2019t be subject to this regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not familiar with the case of Ms Grace to be able to comment on that, and I\u2019d probably be foolish to do so, not least of all because it\u2019s a hypothetical matter in the past, obviously deeply important to her and perhaps others. I respect that, of course, but I would point out that the fact of a property being included within the scope of this regime doesn\u2019t mean that a compulsory acquisition would necessarily be allowed anyway. Admittedly, it would be for the decision maker, be it the Minister or the local government entity, as the case may be, to make that decision. But I reiterate that that decision would have to be reasonable, otherwise the recourse to the court would still be available\u2014albeit under judicial review\u2014under the inherent jurisdiction of the High Court as compared with the Environment Court, as currently is the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022 data-id=\u0022466f6ffa3ca84787882b6e5053cf11b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022466f6ffa3ca84787882b6e5053cf11b4\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a13c80cd59ee4f6a9489de6f2e48b136\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a13c80cd59ee4f6a9489de6f2e48b136\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Rachel Brooking\u2014but I\u2019m looking for some pretty new material. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea1d3ecb3a4b4950b91a3beb46d27a0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea1d3ecb3a4b4950b91a3beb46d27a0d\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. This is just a quick call, and, again, quite a high-level one. I\u2019m going back to when this part applies, at page 4 of the bill as reported back from the Transport and Infrastructure Committee\u2014and that is new section 39AAC in clause 5, \u201CWhen this Part applies\u201D\u2014and that is that it\u2019s either when that critical infrastructure project is \u201Ca Government work\u201D, at subsection (1), or, at subsection (2), it\u2019s \u201Ca local work\u201D. Those terms \u201Clocal work\u201D and \u201CGovernment work\u201D are both defined in the Public Works Act and have been for some time, and so I just wanted to clarify with the Minister for Land Information that even if something is listed in a schedule that we\u2019re not talking about yet as being critical infrastructure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d30a6ac3214444bdacb9ba2a75a13caf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: But we\u2019ll get there, won\u2019t we, Ms Brooking? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226051d4ed5c514e6db09df2c01c58cad3\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I know; I do want to get there, I promise\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f39a1158576e4fb5bbf95ec3de55e477\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I can feel an eagerness to be there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022979720d9ad2e4674bfd28907c5905e20\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014it\u2019s also got to be a Government work or a local work. My question is whether it is possible to have something defined as critical infrastructure that isn\u2019t a Government work or a local piece of work, as we all know\u2014all of us have worked with the Public Works Act for years and years, and with those definitions. Is this an additional test at new section\u00A039AAC that you have to have both listed in the schedule, and a Government work or a local work\u2014so, whatever the project is, it has to be both? Is it that there\u2019s no way\u2014and this is a really important point\u2014that projects that are on that fast-track list that are private projects which are going to advantage private people and are not to do with public infrastructure can ever be part of the process that we\u2019re debating today? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u0022e998fa302d15472ab415acd81e0104a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e998fa302d15472ab415acd81e0104a0\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It\u2019s possibly helpful to note for the record that it\u2019s only public works in that sense or Government work, to use the phrase that the member has used, that would qualify for this regime\u2014so not private or non-Government works, therefore.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EIn terms of the point made by the Hon Julie Anne Genter, which I was remiss in not acknowledging before, I do want to thank and acknowledge the select committee for moving quickly in terms of its consideration. I do point out, for the sake of balance and fullness, that the three-year review mechanism that we\u2019ve included, I think will be helpful in ensuring that we will have a good sense of how the regime performs in the real world, as well as the scrutiny that we\u2019ve applied to it so far tonight, and, no doubt, through the rest of the legislative process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3f99ae078be48de9b7737d115b75c4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3f99ae078be48de9b7737d115b75c4f\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I acknowledge the thanks there from the Minister about the select committee reporting back. It reported back much earlier than it was actually required to under the instruction of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8be0084f3b64e5cab1fb825936383ff\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: It was very good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226346a89c86a448489a99d12b7b9063bd\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it was very good, Mr Foster. I see Mr Foster\u2019s in the Chamber\u2014the chair of the select committee. I\u2019m sure he will attest to some of the thinking that the committee turned its mind to, particularly around trying to, I think, insert I guess what could be described as some failsafe provisions, particularly around notification\u2014I\u2019m talking about for submitters, applicants, and the like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EOne of those is actually in what is a completely new section that\u2019s been inserted on recommendation of the select committee, which is new section 25A, inserted by clause 5. This is about the time frame, but, in particular, a new process around extending time frames. Believe it or not, the select committee actually spent a little bit of time thinking about things like, well, what does it mean to have a decision in writing; what does writing mean; does it need to be via post; does it need to be via email\u2014all of those sorts of things. A lot of what is proposed in new section 25A is in that sort of vein and meant to, I think, fall in favour of the person who is either objecting or submitting, but also that the Minister or the local council would be required to, effectively, give reasons and also have a bit of a time frame as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EI want to, effectively, sort of compare that with what is something not touched yet. That is the new section 39AAO, inserted by clause 5. This is under the heading of \u201COther matters\u201D, towards the end of Part 1. The select committee had suggested a change to insert an entire new way in which notice may actually be served or given. This goes back to the point around trying to ensure that it was user-friendly and I think trying to, actually, Minister, strike that balance that you referred to around some element of haste but also protecting the rights of folk to get the information that they need. So my question for the Minister: is he comfortable with what I\u2019ve termed fail-safe provisions in the legislation that\u2019s been added by the select committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EThe other is just over the page here, and it relates to subsections (2) and (3) of new section 39AAP, inserted by clause 5. This is about the requirement to undertake a review that the Minister has referred to and that it needs to be three years after the date of this part\u2019s commencement. One of the interesting things is that we\u2019re starting to see this, I guess, too, as kind of like a catch-all. Who\u2019s going to actually be part of this review process? We haven\u2019t heard from the Minister around that yet. The Minister, there is a requirement that he, she, or they may be required to sort of consult with people that they would consider as appropriate. Well, who are those individuals? Would it be depending on a huge number of judicial review opportunities that may have been exercised or not? Are we talking about the specific projects that have actually either been partially completed or fully completed\u2014the projects that are listed Schedule 2\u2014or not? I think it would be quite helpful. It\u2019s great that there is a review clause in here, but is the Minister comfortable that the catch-all is just going to sit there, or how would that kind of be described in his own thinking?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003ELikewise, the final point is we\u2019ve been very careful as a committee to think about the number of days or working days and all those sorts of things. Yet, in subsection (3), one thing we didn\u2019t actually provide a recommendation on is the requirement as to when that report of the review needs to be presented to the House. I mean, it says there \u201Cas soon as practicable\u201D after completion. Now, a lot of the other \u201Cas soon as practicable\u201D in previous sections kind of are driven by other projects and other sort of systems at play, but this may not. I\u2019d be interested in the Minister\u2019s thoughts, in particular around what might drive those two components of subsections (2) and (3).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u0022b47a5450b1e3486ea5bb24b356ea79d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b47a5450b1e3486ea5bb24b356ea79d4\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, sir, and thank you to the member for his further thoughtful questions. I am comfortable that the mechanics of notices and requests being in writing in the way that is specified and helpfully laid out now by the select committee are appropriate, and I thank the members of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee for their work, including the chair, Mr Andy Foster.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EIn terms of the review, I think it\u2019s impossible to know, in three years from now, when that review takes place, what people might be appropriate to conduct it. I think it would depend on the experience of the operation and the regime in the meantime. Obviously, I won\u2019t suggest particular names, although I take the opportunity to place on record, again, my thanks for the panel that reviewed the existing legislation and made very thoughtful suggestions, and, of course, the good folk at Land Information New Zealand and others who advised on what such a regime might look like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EIn terms of the time period within which the then Minister may be required to report back, I think I\u2019d be creating a rod for my own back or perhaps someone else\u2019s back if I were to be more specific than to use the framing there. But it would be my hope and expectation that the Minister at that time would do so with an appropriate sense of haste\u2014there\u2019s that word again\u2014given the importance and the public policy considerations inherent in ensuring we\u2019ve got a fast and fair regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022 data-id=\u00229ebeb79f02234e31b9e3b9cd24971ca8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ebeb79f02234e31b9e3b9cd24971ca8\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c74b11b3bf624bfab1d5e48816b0f597\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c74b11b3bf624bfab1d5e48816b0f597\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Noting that Mr Utikere finished on the very last clause of the part, I\u2019ll take a closure motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002255ba5f0bdfdb4fbca2aaed47a8cc316b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9b69fd8ea2b46b8a178ebdda55e04f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9b69fd8ea2b46b8a178ebdda55e04f8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to Amendment Paper 350, amending new section 39AAH(1AA)(a)(v) to provide that notice of intention to take land must not be given unless a project is well supported by the community be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223e6666bfe7b0485492cfaca5e3bc8f67\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u002266a3773324c64a068b3694bc342fc326\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266a3773324c64a068b3694bc342fc326\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Part 1, set out on Amendment Paper 350 be agreed to\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002216f237dbef5c4adc8a0ef3308f7ce388\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First\u00A08.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 20\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022cccb4547e4c84dcfac15400c3f8e8633\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cccb4547e4c84dcfac15400c3f8e8633\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Part 1, as amended, stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f3d96c8d29ca46a89c8932b740df0290\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1, as amended, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First\u00A08.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 20\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222e376107bc1d4c19a21ac1af7031f1a2\u0022\u003EPart 2  Related and consequential amendments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u002208b63b0533fc4949ac19130c16c2bb7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208b63b0533fc4949ac19130c16c2bb7d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we\u2019ll come now to Part 2. This is the debate on clauses 6 to 11, \u201CRelated and consequential amendments\u201D, and Schedules 1 and 2. The question is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022 data-id=\u0022adf3d191cd8b4345bc98f7f5036499b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022adf3d191cd8b4345bc98f7f5036499b7\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chairman, thank you. Moving on to Part 2, as I said earlier on, I\u2019ll speak about protected M\u0101ori land. It was and still is a critical part of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee\u2019s consideration. This part relates to compensation in particular, and I guess one of the issues for the protected M\u0101ori land\u2014it\u2019s listed here, and I think it is important to reassure those owners of M\u0101ori land that they have not been forgotten. This is not a roll-through or roll-over of their rights, and, certainly, the Labour Party in Opposition fought strongly to ensure that was the case. M\u0101ori freehold land; M\u0101ori reserves; general land owned by M\u0101ori that was previously M\u0101ori freehold land; post-settlement governance entity land; iwi or hap\u016B, if land was transferred to return to mana whenua; M\u0101ori reservations; M\u0101ori customary land\u2014it\u2019s all pretty much covered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003EOn the issue of compensation, maybe the Minister for Land Information can reassure M\u0101ori land owners, because sometimes the valuation of that land is difficult, while there are in Part 2, of course, specifications for the amount of compensation that should be paid under subsection (2)(c), \u201C(a) equal 15% of the total land value of the land\u201D. Maybe the Minister can assure M\u0101ori landowners that that would be of full market value, even though the land may not be available for sale because of its status. That is important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003EWorking through fair compensation\u2014\u201C(b) be $5,000 if 15% of the total land value is equal to or less than $5,000; \u2026 (c) be $150,000 if 15% of the total land value is equal to or more than $150,000.\u201D\u2014there could be situations, particularly in urban environments where we have M\u0101oriowned land, where the compensation may be worth more than $150,000 if it\u2019s 15 percent of the commercial value. I just need reassurance\u2014I know the select committee did its very best to look at that and give reassurance, but I guess, from the Minister on behalf of the Crown, a reassurance to M\u0101ori land owners that they will be getting a fair deal and not squeezed, because there is a history of that, and I don\u2019t think anyone, certainly not the select committee, wanted to perpetrate that again on M\u0101ori land owners. It\u2019s an opportunity, and the Minister can talk\u2014these are, for the most part, in Part\u00A02, issues in or around the compensation. Maybe that is the critical one that I think there needs to be a reassurance from the Crown on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u0022536e67dc548f4d41822739308f7ef696\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022536e67dc548f4d41822739308f7ef696\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Having provided that same assurance several times already this evening, I\u2019m happy to provide it again, respecting that the question was, no doubt, asked in good faith. More particularly, protected M\u0101ori land, as defined under the Public Works Act, cannot be acquired under the critical infrastructure process. It is exactly that change that we are changing to the regime tonight. Protected M\u0101ori land, as defined and as we\u2019ve set out a couple of times already this evening, cannot be acquired under the critical infrastructure regime; however, the owners of protected M\u0101ori land, on the other hand, will be eligible for premium payments if their land is acquired for critical infrastructure projects, using the standard process. In that sense, they get the best of both worlds. They get the ability to retain that right of recourse to the Environment Court but also those higher payments that are available to those owners of land that is not protected M\u0101ori land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EAgain, respecting and acknowledging and, indeed, having mentioned upfront the historical injustices associated with the Crown\u2019s use of the Public Works Act to deprive owners of M\u0101ori land of their rightful property, and not wishing to perpetuate that, and, in fact, improving on the position of M\u0101ori land holders not only relative to where they are now, such that they will get the premium payment, but also improving their position relative to owners of land that is not protected M\u0101ori land, in the sense that we are allowing to remain in place that recourse in the Environment Court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022 data-id=\u002220a9eea6e924439fb1c0e1d2861191c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220a9eea6e924439fb1c0e1d2861191c4\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. That is a very helpful answer from the Minister for Land Information, and it helps me to clarify my questions. I have two for him to begin with, in this Part 2, about M\u0101ori land rights. Before I bring him into the detail of Schedule 2, the first is a general question about how the additional compensation provisions at new section 72F will work for Treaty settlement land, which is included, and those rights that arise under deeds between the Crown and iwi for compensation but are not necessarily crystallised at the time. In this schedule of projects, there are some of those. To give him an example, the Ng\u0101 Mana Whenua o T\u0101maki Makaurau Collective Redress Act was a 2014 piece of legislation that recognised the collective redress system for the 19 iwi with interests in the T\u0101maki-makau-rau area. This was after, essentially, a second go at that from the Government in that period, where rights had been recognised in a staged way but not all at the same time. To recognise that there were a number of iwi with overlapping interests in the area, there was designed, essentially, a carousel of commercial property opportunities in a way that the three groupings of collectives under that Act would share those commercial opportunities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EThere are properties all around Auckland where iwi share an interest, and if the Crown ever, say, sells or divests itself of that land, they are entitled to that, but not through an ordinary right of first refusal. Those rights are not that any given iwi has been granted a right of first refusal, so that\u2019s not something that appears, say, on the title of that land, but it is something that exists where Government agencies with that land know that they are subject to that 2014 Act and so must deal with the carousel, which is a limited partnership called the Whenua Haumi Roroa o T\u0101maki Makaurau Limited Partnership. I raise this point because where this new mandatory payments provision might apply, there are some projects here which that might apply to and probably do apply to. How will these new provisions for compensation interact with rights which haven\u2019t crystallised and aren\u2019t on the title of the land, but where iwi might reasonably expect themselves to have rights that are accrued under the 2014 Act which they can realise? How will those rights be compensated is the general question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EI think helpfully\u2014I hope helpfully\u2014I\u2019ll give them an example that we can talk about. It\u2019s the Carrington Residential Development site. I am genuinely interested in the Minister\u2019s explanation of this. It\u2019s not a road. The committee helpfully heard from the New Zealand Transport Agency on its expectations of how these projects will work, but obviously not builders of a large residential project at Carrington. The 139 Carrington Road site is about 40 hectares of land on what was Unitec land. That will be an amazing housing development for Auckland, but it already has iwi with interests in it who are building on it. We have this provision here where it\u2019s a scheduled project where there are special powers to compensate M\u0101ori land owners. They are actively engaged with the Government to in fact build this critical infrastructure, so why is it there? Is it possible that these M\u0101ori land owners who are actively engaged in the building of what is considered critical infrastructure here are now subject to requirement provisions that are different? In what situation would the Minister be able to exercise those? I don\u2019t think it\u2019s his intention to exercise those, but why, then, is it included?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not a road, and that is relevant, because we are creating some provisions here where the New Zealand Transport Agency, for the public good and for no profit whatsoever, would be acquiring land from private owners to build what is only valuable in a public sense. But Carrington is included here, where there are M\u0101ori land ownership rights that do accrue some private benefit, so we want some clarity on how that will work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u002276f6ccc6a34f480795bf4796af0851d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276f6ccc6a34f480795bf4796af0851d1\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and thanks to the member for her question. Thanks to those who are more knowledgeable in the matter than I am who have provided some information, which is that the Carrington residential development\u2014with which many Aucklanders are familiar, even if I don\u2019t know the history and, indeed, the future intentions perhaps as well as that member, and certainly Mr Tama Potaka\u2014at the former Unitec campus in Mount Albert has been facilitated by the Crown through the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development, or HUD, as it\u2019s popularly known. It\u2019s a long-term project being carried out over multiple stages, and HUD has indicated that there may be a need for new infrastructure in the future, presumably to support that development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EWith the detailed design stages not having yet been completed, it\u2019s possible that there will be public works required that qualify\u2014and, indeed, are necessary and desirable\u2014under this regime that would be included. So for that reason, it\u2019s been included. More specifically than that, I don\u2019t wish to comment on particular other projects that the member\u2019s aware of historically, which she\u2019s referred to. I will say in general terms, though, that as I\u2019ve said previously, land held by a post-settlement governance entity and acquired under a Treaty settlement is not captured by this critical infrastructure element of the legislation, precisely because it\u2019s considered protected M\u0101ori land under other legislation\u2014so too land held by an iwi or hap\u016B, if that land was transferred to return to mana whenua. In a general ballpark, as well, I\u2019ll add that areas with protected customary rights are also not included for the amended process as to critical infrastructure. But, again, I am just emphasising that such owners of protected M\u0101ori land would, nevertheless, be eligible for premium payments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022 data-id=\u002277137274de5d4792a187dc0afad9bfa5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277137274de5d4792a187dc0afad9bfa5\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ve got one question relating to that answer and exchange that\u2019s just been had, then a separate question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EOn that Carrington housing development, I have two questions around that. One is that I think what the Minister was referring to was roads and other things that we would normally think of as infrastructure. Of course, housing is very important as well, and many people talk about it in a very valid way as infrastructure, but my recollection is\u2014and, sorry, I haven\u2019t looked at this for some time\u2014that housing generally isn\u2019t something that the Public Works Act applies to. I may be wrong, so please do correct me if I am. I\u2019d just be interested in that point. There are two questions in that: could there ever be a housing project listed as a critical infrastructure project? Would it meet that local work or Government work test in the main part of the Public Works Act? Either way, is he just talking about Carrington in terms of roads and not the houses but the other bits? That\u2019s one line of questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EMy next question is in relation to the amendments to the Resource Management Act. Clause\u00A010A of the bill amends section 185. This is an interesting section, and I\u2019m sure everyone will be really interested to hear that this was the section that I first made legal submissions to the High Court on\u2014section 185\u2014some decades ago. Section 185 is a really interesting section\u2014I would say that, wouldn\u2019t I? I\u2019ll tell you why it\u2019s interesting, and that is because when land is required and somebody like a road authority says, \u201CWe\u2019re going to put a notice of requirement on this land, and one day in the future, we might build a road on it, and we might go through with the designation.\u201D, of course, that can be seen as a blight on someone\u2019s private property, and it may be that it never goes ahead. There\u2019ll be lapse periods in terms of the time frames for those requirements and designations, but it may be that they don\u2019t go ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EThe property owner can say, \u201CLook, this is a real pain having these lines drawn over my property, and it\u2019s stopping me from being able to capitalise on my property, so what I want is I want my land to be taken, and I\u2019m going to make you take that land.\u201D What appears in this amendment is to add this critical infrastructure project into the ability for the landowner to make it be taken from them, and, of course, when it\u2019s made to be taken, they get compensated for it. My question is: why is that amendment needed for critical infrastructure if the whole point of this bill that we\u2019re looking at is to really speed it up? Isn\u2019t it the idea that these projects that are specifically listed in the schedule that we are now allowed to talk about in Part 2 should happen quickly? I was wondering if he wanted to comment on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EThen my other question regarding section 185 is just that new subsection (8)(a) refers to section 2 of the Public Works Act. We\u2019ve seen in Part 1 that that\u2019s amended to relate to the\u2014it links to section\u00A02 of the Public Works Act. The general interpretation section specifically links to the new interpretation that\u2019s in this bill and in relation to which the requiring authority may use Part 2A of that Act to acquire the owner\u2019s land. I presume that the link that I was talking about before in Part 1 was when this part applies and that it\u2019s got to relate to either the Government work or the local work and can\u2019t just be a critical infrastructure project. Is that link seen in new subsection (8)(b) there, or is it actually something else?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc2b7f2ca84341e38986cd42b55446ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc2b7f2ca84341e38986cd42b55446ea\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. If I was slower on my feet, that might have been the end of the part! But I will answer at least the first part of the question, because that\u2019s as far as I can get in terms of providing what I expect and hope will be a reasonable answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EIn relation to Carrington specifically, but also more generally, I understand that the principle at play is that if works are carried out by the State, then they\u2019re capable of being defined as \u201Cpublic works\u201D. That means that housing is potentially within the remit, along with pipes and utilities and, indeed, roads, as the member\u2019s mentioned\u2014categories of works that we might traditionally consider as infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EMore particularly, the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development, as previously mentioned, can use the Public Works Act through the Housing Act to require land for State housing permits\u2014section\u00A05 of that Act, as I understand. I\u2019ll pause in case the member\u2019s got any interjection she wants to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223029feca272848d48e1db087883f183f\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: Just a little question: can local government do houses as well, or is it just Government housing through the Act that you just referred to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e56d1c687f2426881d3932624a79f36\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: In the case of local government, it might be something that I will be able to clarify for the member, and if not on the spot, then perhaps at a future time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EThe other questions asked by the member, I\u2019m not in a position to answer definitively at this point, either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3ae12c689434fe48b5f6d4b96c1b4e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3ae12c689434fe48b5f6d4b96c1b4e0\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair\u2014just to round off these questions about the Carrington residential development. That is really helpful from the Minister. The reason I am asking this question is because we acknowledge\u2014everyone does, in this House, I think\u2014the history of M\u0101ori land takings. Part of that troubled history is the giving by iwi of land for a specific development of a purpose, for instance, a church or a school, and then that land not being used for a school or a church and it, in fact, being used for something else. That is where a lot of this historic mistrust really\u2014you know, these are the hardest cases, where that has happened for M\u0101ori, in good faith, giving to the Crown and then not being returned that. So I want to ask about the Carrington residential development quite specifically. I think we are talking about some roads, although the Crown housing programme is a reason for public works taking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EIn this situation, this was land that fit into the Crown housing programme, but because of accommodations that were made between the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development and these iwi that would have otherwise had rights and interests to build houses, that they were included in that process from the very beginning\u2014that\u2019s an important part of Government proactively working with M\u0101ori to recognise their rights, even when they have not crystallised legally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003ENow we have a situation where we have landowners who are iwi; they are engaged in the project of building the houses that we need. These are critical infrastructure projects. Could we now be in a situation where these provisions are used to, again, remove that land that these iwi have entered into, in good faith, to build these houses? You would recognise that in a sort of development like this, there will need to be roads, there will need to be public facilities; those have all well and truly been agreed. But is there now a way for the Minister to use these provisions for land which is current being developed by these iwi in this project, because it is schedulised here? If that\u2019s not the intention, why is it schedulised like this? Help us to understand how the rights and interests of M\u0101ori, who are landowners here, who are landowners because of rights that have arisen from a Treaty settlement in 2014, will be affected by this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u00224bca28f19f8e4d34bf1705d52d92c6e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224bca28f19f8e4d34bf1705d52d92c6e2\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. To answer as helpfully as I can, the opening comment that I made when we commenced this committee of the whole House stage acknowledged that there are thorny issues around disposals of land under the Public Works Act. It was outside the scope of the review that we asked the panel to undertake, and it\u2019s outside the scope of this legislation, so we don\u2019t make any changes in that regard. But I do want to acknowledge for the sake of the public record that it\u2019s an area of further reform that a future Government might consider, whether in relation to the critical infrastructure regime or more generally regarding the Public Works Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022 data-id=\u00221a7a60cc50004934a0997e4c4d871a58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a7a60cc50004934a0997e4c4d871a58\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I\u2019ve just lodged eight amendments. They\u2019ve been tabled, and they\u2019re specifically amendments to Schedule 2. I wanted to focus my contribution on those projects, but more broadly, how the projects have come to be included in \u201CCritical infrastructure projects\u201D, new Schedule 2A, inserted by Schedule 2, on page\u00A029.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EIn the broad comments that the Minister made in relation to my colleague Scott Willis\u2019 question about the impact on carbon emissions and greenhouse gas emissions, the Minister said that in this regime, these projects haven\u2019t been subjected to that kind of test or consideration or modelling but that they would have been included in fast-track or the Government Policy Statement on land transport\u2014that, in those other processes, they would have been considered. However, that is not the case when it comes to the Government Policy Statement on transport. A number of highways have simply been stipulated because the National Party campaigned on them. They\u2019ve been subject to no analysis, as far as I\u2019m aware, but we all know that they\u2019re going to involve a lot of carbon emissions to build, and they\u2019re certainly not going to reduce carbon emissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EWe have a dire need to reduce transport emissions in this country. They\u2019re about 40 percent of our carbon emissions. Our transport system is almost entirely dependent on private cars and trucks, and until we start investing in the alternatives to roads, we won\u2019t have any choice but to use cars and trucks. For most New Zealanders, we\u2019re nowhere near having a high penetration of low-emissions vehicles. It\u2019s going to cost a fortune for us to replace the current vehicle fleet with low-emissions vehicles. I just put it to the Minister that there is actually no way that the highways listed in Schedule\u00A02 have been the focus of any sort of analysis about whether they\u2019re going to help us reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and I would say we have very good reason to believe that they won\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EA further point that I would make to the Minister\u2014and the reason why I have tabled these amendments\u2014is that if we\u2019re going to acquire land for public purposes and we\u2019re going to take away people\u2019s land and we\u2019re making this faster and harder for people to object to, it really needs to meet the test of being for the public good. The Government has introduced a new process that the Infrastructure Commission is going through called the Infrastructure Priorities Programme. Now, I admit that\u2019s in its early days, but I would suggest that if we were going to be using this sort of process for critical infrastructure, that should be infrastructure that has been subject to the Infrastructure Priorities Programme, contains analysis, and has received the tick of approval. The Government just recently announced its National Infrastructure Plan. That\u2019s in a draft format, but the Infrastructure Commission makes it very clear in their draft plan that we haven\u2019t been very good at choosing which projects to build. If we\u2019re rushing ahead to try and acquire land quickly and we\u2019re acquiring land compulsorily, I think people would want those projects to be genuinely contributing to the betterment of the country, and that does mean that they\u2019re good projects, not just projects that some party has campaigned on once.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EOne of the things I\u2019m most confused about is the East West Link being included in this, because my understanding of the East West Link is that that project already had resource consent and already had a lot of land acquired\u2014hundreds of millions of dollars\u2019 worth of land in Auckland\u2014so I\u2019m not sure why it needs to be included here. Is it the case that it doesn\u2019t, or was it just put on the list because it is a project that was specified in the Government Policy Statement on land transport and/or on the fast-track projects list? Is it the case that these projects have been listed because the Crown believes they have a good reason to acquire additional land to put them in place, or is it just because they\u2019re on other lists and in other bills? Does that make sense? I\u2019m pretty sure the East West Link already had resource consent and had already acquired land under the old public works process, and unless they\u2019re substantially changing the designation and changing the project, bringing it back, I don\u2019t see why there would need to be additional land acquired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EThe other projects in my tabled amendments\u2014and Mr Chair, if you\u2019d indulge me, I\u2019d like to continue to take another call so I can speak to these.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231b58bd833fa4feeb06e1543aa794983\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Julie Anne Genter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272742aa6f2df47f79a1d51e92a40e08c\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Mr Chair. First, I\u2019ve tabled some amendments. It\u2019s just eight amendments. It\u2019s not very much. They\u2019re not exactly in the order I want them to be, but they don\u2019t have numbers, so it doesn\u2019t matter: Hamilton Southern Links, Hawke\u2019s Bay Expressway, Mill Road, East West Link, Takitimu North Link\u2014Stage 2, Warkworth to Te Hana, State Highway 1 Cambridge to Piarere Long Term Improvements Project, and Petone to Granada and the Cross Valley Link. I particularly want to make note of Warkworth to Te Hana. That\u2019s eight different tabled amendments\u2014one for each of these projects\u2014and it\u2019s because these projects in particular I don\u2019t think can be considered critical infrastructure, because they clearly are not going to take us down the pathway of increasing efficiency of our transport system and reducing greenhouse gas emissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EFor Warkworth to Te Hana, I have submitted an amendment to remove that from this schedule. I have not suggested that the alternative to the Brynderwyns Hills be removed. I think this is an important point, because often when people are talking about why we need a four-lane road up North, it\u2019s because the Brynderwyns get closed a lot. If that is the case and that is truly the critical link that we need to fix, that should be the first bit off the block to fix. We should be focusing on the alternative to the Brynderwyns now, not Warkworth to Te Hana. Warkworth to Te Hana is not the essential problem with that link. It\u2019s the alternative to the Brynderwyns. I\u2019m just asking the committee to try and consider how we actually fulfil the very intelligent strategy laid out in the Infrastructure Commission\u2019s National Infrastructure Plan to prioritise our infrastructure, make better use of the infrastructure we have, and try to get the outcomes we actually want.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EIf the main weak point of State Highway 1 between Auckland and Whang\u0101rei, and indeed the rest of the Northland, is the Brynderwyns, logically an alternative to the Brynderwyns should be the highest priority for State Highway 1 north of Auckland. I haven\u2019t proposed removing that one, but I am going to propose removing Warkworth to Te Hana, because I just don\u2019t see in any way how that can be considered critical infrastructure. It\u2019s going to cost a fortune. It\u2019s going to deliver very low benefits\u2014like, no benefits, really, that we couldn\u2019t do in a more efficient way by adding some passing lanes and upgrading the existing road and investing in rapid transit and intercity rapid transit, and possibly coastal shipping, to make it easier to connect goods that might be coming into Northport and then moving them down around the country on the blue highway rather than clogging up our roads, which are always going to be extremely vulnerable to storms and other problems. Of course, at no point in the near future is moving goods by road between Northport and Auckland going to be low emission. We are very, very far away from having that infrastructure unless they were to electrify the rail line and upgrade it massively, which is not on this list of critical infrastructure, sadly, although the fourth main is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EThe other one\u2014and I know that I heard one of the Ministers opposite complain that I had Hamilton Southern Links on here. Hamilton Southern Links, in Schedule 2, says \u201CDevelop 1 or more roads and associated infrastructure to support Hamilton\u2019s planned southern growth, including by\u2014improving existing roads\u201D. The reality is that if you widen roads within an urban area, you will get more traffic. We know this from 70 years of data. You can\u2019t add roading capacity in an urban area and not have it be filled up with cars within five to 10 years, at which point all your supposed benefits of spending all that money are gone. In the interim, we have not spent the money upgrading the infrastructure that would actually make it possible for people to move and for goods to move around our urban areas without having to rely on private vehicles. It\u2019s totally counterproductive, and it\u2019s not going to help productivity and economic growth as much as the Government wishes it would. That\u2019s not what\u2019s proposed here. This is urban highway expansion, and urban highway expansion has never solved congestion, it doesn\u2019t improve productivity, and it actually is counterproductive. That\u2019s just reality. Like, that\u2019s just reality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EI know there are not many people here who\u2019ve extensively studied transport economics, but if you are interested in the topic, and every member here should be\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u00223361a8f1e50e4cfe95e9bb79ed3f0443\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223361a8f1e50e4cfe95e9bb79ed3f0443\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for her comments. I\u2019m aware of the commentary around induced demand. I think relitigating that at length is not going to be helpful to the committee\u2019s consideration of the critical infrastructure elements of the Public Works Act. I would point out that the Marsden Point Rail Link, the North-West Rapid Transit\u2014which is an express busway, separated. It\u2019s a road, unfortunately for the member, but it\u2019s going to be a dedicated busway, so we think it will be helpful in terms of projects of which the member may or may not approve. There\u2019s an active mode corridor in terms of Papakura to Pukekohe route protection; Pukekohe to Drury rail station\u2014again, of which the member may approve; four tracking Westfield to Pukekohe to widen the existing rail corridor; implementation of the \u014Ct\u0101karo Avon River corridor regeneration plan, which is about stop banks and pumping stations; lower North Island integrated rail mobility; and the upgrade of and existing rail work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EThere are plenty of projects on which members all across the Chamber can agree. They may disagree on others. For example, Warkworth to Te Hana and getting around the problems in the Brynderwyns quite literally are two problems that we can resolve at once, and the Government is determined to do so. The fact that members may or may not agree with the Government\u2019s policy statement in relation to transport isn\u2019t a reason to say that we shouldn\u2019t have a faster and fairer process for the acquisition of land or other property rights in relation to the Public Works Act regime, and that is the subject of the legislation. That is what we\u2019re debating in this Chamber tonight, and that has been the subject of the discussion in terms of Part 2 and, indeed, these same general points that we\u2019ve already made throughout this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022 data-id=\u0022abf7463ee91b452e94f23dd10fce0fa9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022abf7463ee91b452e94f23dd10fce0fa9\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I want to turn to a part that has not been covered in Schedule 1. It\u2019s clause 7(6)(b) of new Part 2 inserted into Schedule 1AA of the Act. This is about the ability for someone to object to the Environment Court. This is the part that that particular provision falls within. One of the things that the select committee did hear a lot about was the real concerns that, effectively, stripping away the right of appeal to the Environment Court would present in terms of natural justice. I\u2019m interested in the Minister\u2019s response around that, because it was a real concern and one that we have referred to in the Labour Party during, particularly, the second reading contributions. It\u2019s one that I hope the Minister has had a chance to think about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EThere is Schedule 2, which identifies a list of different projects all around the country. Now, there\u2019s one project that I\u2019ve been advocating for on behalf of the community that I represent here in Parliament, Palmerston North, and it is listed, as the Minister has said, as the Lower North Island Rail Integrated Mobility project. Now, that\u2019s well known as the Capital Connection when it comes to the Palmy route\u2014a great service. I caught it to Parliament here early this morning, and we are still waiting for that. It must happen. This is something that the Labour Government did initiate the funding for, but it can\u2019t be delayed, and the community can\u2019t wait any longer for that. My question to the Minister is: what\u2019s really important is that in those three columns in the schedule, the second and the third one, the project description and the approximate geographical location, is sort of used as an identifier, and there are a number of changes that have been initiated there, but how important and how realistic is it that those projects are specifically defined as they are?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EFor example, over a three-year period, there may be some change initiated with a few of these projects, actually. In some regards, that might not affect the actual project description as such, but in some circumstances there may be a direct effect in terms of either geographical location or the specific project description. Is it that these projects are specifically locked in as is, as they are at the moment? Where is the flexibility to deal with any particular change that might eventuate during the process of completing these projects, and does there need to be a provision or, again, is this captured somewhere else?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d02ce828d10f42a5b6cb14ddf46f38f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d02ce828d10f42a5b6cb14ddf46f38f7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Rather than letting the Minister truncate his answer and deprive us of his eloquence, the time has come for me to leave the Chair. The committee will resume at 9 a.m. tomorrow. Have a good evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508196c19b2e36327425ab3889db94eb68b49000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 9.58 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bbd99148bc61487d9f4b532b0c847967\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 19 AUGUST 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002219749095b47644948603dfa186e40bec\u0022\u003E(continued on Wednesday, 20 August 2025)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002240c0c1985f364d37b17a1fe29152510b\u0022\u003EPublic Works (Critical Infrastructure) Amendment Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022365431681d954d2f991495051373b329\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d219508cedfe4ddcad4d520e9c908c40\u0022\u003EPart 2  Related and consequential amendments (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u00229e811b8c070f4c13b3305500c621a1a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e811b8c070f4c13b3305500c621a1a0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Good morning, members. The committee is resumed on the Public Works (Critical Infrastructure) Amendment Bill. When we were considering the bill last night, we were on Part 2. This is the debate on clauses 6 to 11, \u201CRelated and consequential amendments\u201D, and Schedules 1 and 2. Once again, the question is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022 data-id=\u00220f9a2847761049a1ab325cf052f31472\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f9a2847761049a1ab325cf052f31472\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair\u2014that was very loud!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fb171538a1546e0806f39b4cb388686\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Good morning!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0ff125ec11b489dadbc89ca093df47e\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, good morning, everyone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bb9c1104f5c4d85acd56d19817ff808\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Full of enthusiasm!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e524ee67221b4170ab85b939ff77afb2\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s great\u2014it\u2019s great to be loud! We are now on Part 2, as you just said, and, of course, in Part 2 is the schedule that names, specifically, the critical infrastructure projects. The Minister told us yesterday, in our Part 1 debate, that these projects cannot be changed\u2014the project name cannot be changed; projects cannot be added to it except for going through a normal legislative process. The project description and the location\u2014they can be amended by an Order in Council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s been some discussion by some members about some particular projects that are on this list. One of them is the Carrington residential development. We understand that they are Government houses and roads, and it could be a mix of both those houses and the roads. I did have a question that I haven\u2019t heard an answer from the Minister on, on local government houses\u2014if they could potentially, in the future, be included in this list. I also haven\u2019t got an answer on why the amendment to section 185 of the Resource Management Act is needed given that these projects will all be going very fast.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EI\u2019m also interested in how these projects arrived on this list. We are becoming accustomed, with this Government, from listing specific projects in schedules that get to bypass normal regulatory processes. I acknowledge this list appears to be\u2014with his comment on the Carrington residential development\u2014all Government projects. That is my first question: can he confirm that all of the projects on this list are, in fact, Government projects and that they are not local projects? And if there are any local projects, could he identify them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EThe second related question is to go back to what the Transport and Infrastructure Committee has reported back, where it\u2019s said that the projects listed in the schedule come from the Fast-track Approvals Act and some other documents as well. Of course, there were 149 projects on that schedule to the Fast-track Approvals Act and there are about 29 on this. I understand that many of those projects on the fast-track list are private developments, but I\u2019m wondering if he can elucidate on how it is that these projects came to be in this schedule. I presume they had to fit being a public Government work or a public local work and on one of those lists named in the select committee report back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EThen, I\u2019m wondering if there\u2019s been an analysis then undertaken into why it is these projects and how long they will take. That relates back to my question about the amendment to section 185 of the Resource Management Act, because if it is the case that there has been some analysis, then it would be good to know that. Does the Minister expect them to all go quite quickly? And going to a point that was made by the Hon Julie Anne Genter last night, she was talking about a specific project and saying that her understanding of that specific project was that it already had its resource management consents and it was already designated and a whole lot of land had been acquired. Has there been analysis into how far through all these projects are and, where they are incomplete, what the likely cost of acquiring that land will be, now, through this critical infrastructure pathway as opposed to the normal Public Works Act process\u2014and noting, of course, that that normal Public Works Act process has that Environment Court element that\u2019s changed in this bill, to an extent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EThose are my questions. Just reminding the Minister if he can comment on local government housing, section 185, and also how it came that these 29 or so\u2014I might have miscounted\u2014projects are on the list and what analysis has been undertaken to determine how far through they are and what the costs of them being on this list will be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u00224468938927364058a040b5b986ecdb38\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224468938927364058a040b5b986ecdb38\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Good morning to members of the committee of the whole House. To the member who has just resumed her seat, the Hon Rachel Brooking, I thank her for the questions and comments that she has made this morning. Picking up on the spirit of a couple that were raised last night by her colleague Tangi Utikere in a similar vein, I\u2019ll take all of those together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EFirst, in terms of local government projects, which, for members who weren\u2019t present last night, flowed out of a discussion originally around the specific project at Carrington, in inner West Auckland, roughly speaking, I suppose you could say\u2014an important project in its own right\u2014and the question more generally as to whether local government projects could be considered as Government works such that they could qualify for inclusion within the Public Works Act critical infrastructure regime, the answer is that they could, yes, theoretically, but they would need to be added to primary legislation after, because, of course, the matter of listing them in the schedule, in this case, does confirm or lock in the status of such projects that are included. Notwithstanding that there are none in the list at the moment, there could be in the future, but only by way of primary legislative amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EIn terms of the connection with section 185 of the Resource Management Act, I think the question that the member has posed flowed again from the point around\u2014well, particularly around why it would be needed if the intent is to be able to acquire more quickly. I understand this was a recommendation from the Transport and Infrastructure Committee in response to a submission from local government basically to clarify the scenario of compensation entitlement, should that case ever arise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EIn terms of the point around what I would call transitional arrangements, as raised by the Hon Julie Anne Genter last night and reiterated this morning by the Hon Rachel Brooking, analysis in terms of where projects are incomplete, to the extent that projects are historic, having been undertaken and completed or indeed being incomplete now without being listed for inclusion in this regime, then they would not be included in the critical infrastructure piece, so there isn\u2019t an additional cost in that sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EI know that that will be a matter of disappointment in some cases, potentially, but others might view the previous regime as being more helpful to their case. But in any case, the general situation remains, of course, as I said last night, that when you introduce a regime that will, hopefully, be viewed on most occasions as more favourable, those who have not benefited from that because they were under a previous regime may feel disappointment, but of course, that\u2019s not a reason not to introduce a more favourable regime going forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EThen finally, in terms of the point made by Tangi Utikere specifically as to whether projects that are listed here but might be capable of amendment or a change of scope in time, the safeguard is that the Minister must be satisfied that the scope of each project will not be substantially different as a result of such an amendment, taking into account the project\u2019s purpose, location, scale, and the nature of the works involved. The clause expressly says that no new projects can be inserted into the schedule by this Order in Council mechanism. Of course, with that Order in Council, as secondary legislation it will be subject to normal requirements around secondary legislation, including scrutiny by the worthy body that is the Regulations Review Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022 data-id=\u0022d414f8aae96649bc91962fa96d2073b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d414f8aae96649bc91962fa96d2073b4\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I am just looking in Part 2, clause 7 (8), around payment of compensation to landowners or thereabouts. One of the things I\u2019d like to ask the Minister, in relation to some of the projects\u2014well, one in particular: say, the Hope Bypass that has been in the planning stage for a long time and much has changed. There has been a major subdivision built on the boundaries of this. My questions are in relation to any bits of land that may be acquired additionally and whether the changing value of that land is taken into account. The issue of compensation here as specified in how it should be calculated and considered\u2014I guess, it\u2019s the changing land values for projects that are in Schedule 2 and that have been around for quite some time and adjustments may have been made. Are landowners, who may have had indications of potential acquisition, entitled to the additional compensation payments, or how is that worked through? How might the changing land values around those projects be considered by councils or by Land Information New Zealand if some additional land needs to be acquired? Without going through the list of projects in Schedule 2\u2014there are quite a few of them there. Take the Marsden Point Rail Link. I\u2019m assuming it\u2019s on the same rail corridor, but if there are adjustments to be made, who\u2019s entitled to additional payments to speed those up? Or, indeed, is there a risk that some people\u2014given the length of time of these\u2014have been land banking and are going to get a big fat bonus for some of that land acquisition?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u0022866849683db94631869167f0b0b12e3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022866849683db94631869167f0b0b12e3b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and I thank the member and former Minister for Land Information, the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor, for the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EI think there are a couple of different things which are helpful to clarify for anyone who is following. One, of course, is the extra payments that might be made by way of compensation, by way of recognition, and also incentive, being an understanding and an acknowledgment from the Crown of the value to the Crown and, more importantly, to the community of the works for critical infrastructure, and an incentive, of course, being to, basically, as the name would suggest, encourage early agreement to acquisition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EThen, of course, as the member has alluded to, there\u2019s the fact that land values can change over time\u2014almost invariably to increase. The amendment to the Act doesn\u2019t change the fact that values may increase over time, and it would be 100 percent of the value as agreed and determined under the Act, anyway, that would be the relevant starting point to which one might add 5 or 15 percent, as the case may be\u2014well, it could be 5 or 20 percent, being 5 plus 15\u2014additional percentage of value.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EI do also emphasise, again, as I said last night, that the recourse is to the Land Valuation Tribunal in the event that there\u2019s a dispute about the amount that the land is worth in the first place\u2014that 100 percent figure\u2014so we don\u2019t propose to change that under this legislation before the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7c6ec8a73fc4f2fafc387f4a415ef81\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7c6ec8a73fc4f2fafc387f4a415ef81\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Just to continue the exchange that we were having earlier with the Minister, back on the schedule. I didn\u2019t hear an answer about analysis of the individual projects and how much it will cost to take that land under this process versus the normal Public Works Act process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EMaybe he will say, \u201CWell, that will be done one by one.\u201D He\u2019s entitled to give that answer, but I\u2019d like to know if it\u2019s been thought about or not. I appreciate that to be critical infrastructure, you\u2019ve got to be listed on the schedule, and to be listed on the schedule, you have to go through this process, a legislative process with Parliament. Again, though, if he could maybe give me some comfort: to get on this critical infrastructure project list, you do have to also be a local government work or a Government work before you can be considered for this list? Those are the two little wrap-up questions for me on that list. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd5ec0ba469b488184f4919f3c064455\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd5ec0ba469b488184f4919f3c064455\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Thanks to the member the Hon Rachel Brooking. In terms of the analysis of change costs for specific projects, she\u2019s right in suggesting that it would be the case that this would vary on an individual or case by case basis. The users of the Public Works Act, being local government or a central government agency\u2014and one might think of the New Zealand Transport Agency or KiwiRail, in the case of transport projects\u2014would be better placed to know how that will affect them, but, of course, as the regime comes into effect and they\u2019re in a position to have the certainty to update their calculations, that will be something on which they will be better placed to answer, and, again, as I say, and as the member herself said, on a case by case basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EI\u2019d remind members that the caps on premium payment are those set out in the legislation; limit on the recognition payment at $92,000 for acquisitions valued at $1.8\u00A0million or more. As for incentive payments, they are capped at $150,000 for property acquisitions valued at $1 million or more. That does provide some guard rail, I suppose, for the protection of the taxpayer and certainly to protect the integrity of the system and to enable as many acquisitions as possible for the right amount of taxpayer funding\u2014to the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor\u2019s point. That\u2019s where those limits have been set, or at least that\u2019s the basis on which we have set those out and determined them in this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022 data-id=\u002245683009111b4aa89a0b1b7d0641cc4a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245683009111b4aa89a0b1b7d0641cc4a\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a lovely wet day out there, so it\u2019s nice to be inside. Thank you to the Minister for giving us this opportunity this morning to stay warm and cosy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EI really want to build on the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor\u2019s question about the acquisition of additional land where projects exist or where things have already developed. I\u2019m particularly thinking about the Marsden Point Rail Link, because my understanding\u2014and forgive me, I\u2019m not that familiar with the area\u2014is that it\u2019s consented designated land that\u2019s already purchased, fast-tracked, and in the coalition agreement. If that\u2019s true\u2014and that\u2019s a statement made by the Hon Winston Peters\u2014what else are we doing here with the Public Works (Critical Infrastructure) Amendment Bill? Is it simply making an exclamation point that we\u2019re going to do this or is it actually doing something else? Is it looking to acquire additional land to expand, to grow the footprint? Because that\u2019s what this bill is designed to do, and yet we\u2019re told that everything\u2019s there, it\u2019s ready to go, it\u2019s in the fast track, and it\u2019s in the coalition agreement. It\u2019s fast track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve really got a query about why in particular this bit is mentioned in Part 2. Why in the schedule? Why would we go there if it\u2019s already something that\u2019s practically done? Perhaps the Minister would like to respond. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2981ab329c749e2bf76e08311808c9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2981ab329c749e2bf76e08311808c9d\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and I thank the member for the question. Certainly he\u2019s right to indicate and remind the Chamber, as the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor had, that these are critical infrastructure projects as defined by being within the Government policy statement 2024, including roads of national significance but also projects that have been or will be consented on the Fast-track Approvals Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EI suppose the characterisation could be that there\u2019s an exclamation mark after those, but I think, more helpfully, members could think about it being what follows the question mark. The question mark is: how is it going to be that we can ensure a fast and fair process of acquiring land to enable the projects that have already been confirmed via those other processes. It\u2019s enabling those projects that have been confirmed in a way that makes sense for the communities but is also fair to the landowners, as opposed to introducing any new projects on the table or merely providing emphasis to those which are already understood by those other pieces of legislation and mechanisms to be a priority for the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d8b1209e2cd4800bf7eca957991f665\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u00227abd4b04a94f48e89c2ba541bae726f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227abd4b04a94f48e89c2ba541bae726f3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Is this a closure motion? We\u2019re not quite there yet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022 data-id=\u002242727ec6db064206a31c8ee13ea2b822\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242727ec6db064206a31c8ee13ea2b822\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. This is my first call on Part 2, and I am interested in the operation of some of the projects in the schedule, particularly the ones that aren\u2019t roads. We\u2019ve been discussing that bit. The members of the committee have heard evidence from the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) about how these projects work, but we\u2019re still interested in how those projects that will not be led by the NZTA will work in this context. It is a bit different when you\u2019re thinking about de-risking a roading project, which is for public good, to then compare housing, which is a mix of private and public good. People do feel differently about those sorts of projects. A public works acquisition process, where you\u2019re building a road, and even then, have excess land and might use that to develop houses\u2014communities do feel differently about that and about houses being in front of theirs where there\u2019s been an acquisition for a road. We want to be able to address that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EMy first question is about the operation of clause 7 of Schedule 1AA. That was actually a helpful answer that the Minister gave around projects that are in the pipeline now. I\u2019m sure the Minister has had advice about this, and I want to get some clarity on it. Those projects where his amendment in Amendment Paper (AP) 350 sets out the introduction of a new clause here\u2014I just want to get his thinking around whether there are projects here that have already been notified or work has begun\u2014as is the case with some of these projects\u2014and, given the time difference between this law and the passing of the fast-track bill, which initially notified these projects, whether there are any projects in there that have already been notified and will create a different financial liability for the Crown? What I\u2019m asking is: what is the value of this amended clause in his AP? Can we understand whether this applies to any particular projects. We don\u2019t have to understand the landowners. What I\u2019m asking for is the value that is being exchanged here from the old system compared to the new one, given that these projects were projects which we anticipated, probably, being in part of this new process. Have those landowners been served with a notice and then will they work through the process, which is set out in his amendment, for the Minister to issue new notices? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EI also want to understand at what point the notification process is to be. Some of these projects are well, well under way, and so, I think this new public works acquisition process is actually about other land that might have to be acquired and not the land which is initially acquired, even though it is schedulised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9e813ffe5b3459398d399eb0b56a57d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9e813ffe5b3459398d399eb0b56a57d\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you. I\u2019ll just focus on Schedule 2 and the lists of projects. I think it would be remiss of me as a South Island MP to not ask some questions of the Minister for Land Information, given they are, supposedly, critical infrastructure\u2014critical infrastructure. There\u2019s not too much critical in the South Island. In fact, only about 5\u00BD of the 29 projects listed are in the South Island. I think perhaps if there had been more advocacy from South Island members of Government, we might have a few more because we certainly need them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003ESo the question is, really, how were these prioritised? I appreciate that we have the Hope Bypass in there. But of the seven bridges to be replaced, there are only two of them in the South Island. It is a region with a lower population, I\u2019ll accept that, but in terms of its importance for export growth, which is what the Government\u2019s talked about, then I would have thought that, actually, the critical infrastructure projects should be where the growth will come from. I see a couple of MPs from the other side of the House there\u2014Government MPs, Ministers\u2014who I thought would have tried a little harder. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003EAnyway, so maybe the Minister can answer a couple of questions here. Firstly, why weren\u2019t more South Island projects included? Secondly, how was the prioritisation process undertaken? Thirdly, with some of these roading projects, will they include tolling? I see there\u2019s one there that one of the Ministers over there will probably take a reasonably close interest in, and I know the Minister said before it\u2019s not private interest, but it certainly is public interest if it\u2019s in someone\u2019s own electorate. So there is one there. There\u2019s the Ashburton Second Urban Bridge, of course. We\u2019ve got the Hope Bypass, I understand, and then, of course, one of the four-lane highways, I think it is, north towards Pegasus there, the Woodend Bypass Project (Belfast to Pegasus).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003ESo the question would be, given compensation might be paid for land here, is that offset or paid for by tolling that the Government might be proposing as part of these projects? And indeed, was the potential for tolling part of the prioritisation process that the Government undertook when putting these projects in? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not going to go back through all the projects and ask for each of them\u2014I know that Madam Chair probably wouldn\u2019t tolerate that. But the questions are around: why so few in the South Island; what was the prioritisation process to arrive at this list; and did it include the potential for tolling on some of these roadways, and indeed, the potential then allowed it to get into the priority list? But an important critical piece of infrastructure that may be in Southland or on the West Coast\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dab68ab41e3a430eb85d02f3effa53c9\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: Or Otago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c287ca70bb84430a96f2fb3cf1b3fe3\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014or Otago, indeed\u2014the inability to toll logically in those areas meant that they actually didn\u2019t become part of the critical infrastructure list. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003ESo these are fair questions. There will be ratepayers and truck drivers and people driving to and from work on roads that need to be upgraded in the South Island, and they\u2019ll be saying, \u201CWhy not our road?\u201D So maybe the Minister can take a call and answer that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u0022f181aa3ba2ee47fa993b5da47f0f3a7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f181aa3ba2ee47fa993b5da47f0f3a7c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. Passionate South Island MPs in the Chamber can continue their discussion, I suppose, wherever they like, but, within the scope of this bill, I repeat\u2014and I think maybe for the sixth time\u2014that the criteria for inclusion within this legislation had nothing to do with tolling or other mechanisms for funding or financing, other than the Crown or local government ability and requirement to compensate landowners from whom an interest is being acquired. Those topics are incredibly important, I will acknowledge, but not for the purpose of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EIn terms of the South Island and inclusion of various projects there, again, I emphasise that the inclusion was as critical infrastructure\u2014being an umbrella term that covers those projects\u2014transport-related or otherwise, under the Fast-track Approvals Act consenting process or the Government policy statements relating to roads of national significance, and so on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EI will just, perhaps, respond more generally to the comment, because I\u2019d be remiss not to: the South Island is the better performing of the two islands at the moment, partly because of its reliance on and connection to the primary industry, which is always one of New Zealand\u2019s best and most performing sectors and, in the current time, all the more so. We are grateful as a Government but also as a Parliament, I\u2019m sure, for the export dollars through the primary industry, and also through tourism, and also through international education and other high-performing export sectors. The performance of the South Island is to be greatly commended and encouraged, and we congratulate and thank them for it, and it\u2019s important, of course, that they continue to be supported through various projects, whether included in this regime or not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022 data-id=\u00221edce8384f04401f801257fe7d82ffbf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221edce8384f04401f801257fe7d82ffbf\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u002201c36ffa8e9e423a9bc9abfc7dab6eb0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201c36ffa8e9e423a9bc9abfc7dab6eb0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I think we are much closer than we were last time. The Hon Julie Anne Genter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022 data-id=\u002211f470708ad04611be81f2c4b075e11a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211f470708ad04611be81f2c4b075e11a\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Thank you very much. As the MP for Rongotai, it was very important to me to ask some questions about a project that\u2019s in Schedule 2, which is the State Highway 1 Wellington Improvements. There are a couple of concerns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EI do think it\u2019s important to raise for the House the specifics of this, because what we\u2019re talking about in this bill is increasing the ability of the State to take private land for public works, and there\u2019s limited ability to appeal to the Environment Court. In the case of Wellington, this has been a very contentious issue for several decades because obviously there was the original proposal for the bypass\u2014huge community opposition to that bypass because it was destroying some of the most vibrant parts of the city just for a road, and it destroyed the amenity of that area. We all know now, of course, that urban highways don\u2019t solve traffic congestion problems. They destroy value. Some of the highest value land in the urban areas gets taken for a highway that people aren\u2019t even paying for directly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EAt the same time, the Transport and Infrastructure Committee is considering a bill on congestion pricing. If we had congestion pricing, would we need to take this valuable urban land? Probably not. We would need a lot more public transport.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003ESo the issue I have in the schedule is just how incredibly vague and wide the description of the project is. I keep looking at it and then losing it, but it\u2019s incredibly vague. So it could be any bit of land between the northern end of the Terrace Tunnel. It says, \u201CNorth of Terrace Tunnel to Kilbirnie, Wellington City\u201D. Now, that is a huge area of central Wellington. I want to know, does this mean that the Government could decide to choose different roading projects than what have been proposed up until now, and then take huge amounts of land in the centre of the city with limited ability for people to object to that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s not forget that the last National Government tried to do the Basin flyover. They created a new process called the board of inquiry process where they hand-picked a panel that was going to decide the resource consent because it was supposedly a project of national significance. That expert panel, which was appointed by the then National Government, heard all of the evidence from the various experts\u2014this was a streamlined process\u2014and they rejected the consent for the Basin flyover.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003ENow, that was based on evidence. What concerns me is that we have a Government that\u2019s increasingly not listening to evidence, not allowing community voice. So could the Minister speak to whether this bill means that the Government could designate and take land for a new alignment of the State highway anywhere north of the Terrace Tunnel to Kilbirnie, Wellington City?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EAt the moment, the State highway goes along Vivian Street. There\u2019s a number of stop lights. The latest proposal, we don\u2019t know; it hasn\u2019t been released to the public. It\u2019s apparently been considered by the board of the New Zealand Transport Agency, but they refused to release it. For a while there, they were considering a diagonal tunnel, they were considering a long tunnel, but now we\u2019re back to the parallel tunnel because it\u2019s cheaper. Of course, it\u2019s not going to deliver any time saving benefits, but they\u2019re still going to go ahead and spend billions of dollars on it, potentially. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EIn between the Terrace Tunnel and the Mount Victoria Tunnel, there\u2019s a vibrant urban area that includes Cuba Street. It includes a whole lot of businesses, a whole lot of homes, and a whole lot of relatively new apartments that have been built. Does this mean that the Government can designate a new area to be State highway through that part of the city and compulsorily acquire the land with limited ability for the owners of that land to appeal to the Environment Court? Is that what this means?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u0022301321445cf64a0798a3848e727a1845\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022301321445cf64a0798a3848e727a1845\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m interested that the member for Rongotai is nervous about improvements to the roading project that she\u2019s referred to being faster and, I would say, fairer. Of course, private property rights are hugely important, and on this side of the House, we recognise that. It\u2019s interesting that a Green Party member is nervous about citizens being deprived of private property without recourse, and today is not a day for debate about the Greens\u2019 taxation policy, but I do find that an interesting contrast.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EIn terms of congestion pricing and whether, hypothetically, this regime would be needed if we had a system that is not yet in place and may or may not be in the future, I don\u2019t think, with due all due respect, that\u2019s within the scope of what we are able to determine in relation to the scope of this legislation. As to whether the evidence of projects being worthwhile or not will be improved\u2014or the opposite\u2014by this process, I would simply point out that nothing in this legislation changes the scope of any of the projects listed, nor can introduce new projects without further legislative amendment. The geographic scope of a project, for example, isn\u2019t and cannot be changed by reason of this legislation coming in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve already set out the process by which it might be suggested that there could be changes to a project that\u2019s approved under different regimes and, therefore, I emphasise again to members of the committee that the purpose, intent, and scope of this bill is actually for the land or interests in lands that are to be acquired under the Public Works Act where they are critical infrastructure projects, as listed\u2014the change is only as to process, which would be simpler, and compensation, which would be more generous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022 data-id=\u0022060bf5b2ece34f1e81f45e58d5bd8015\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022060bf5b2ece34f1e81f45e58d5bd8015\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019ll now take an opportunity to ask about two of the three projects that we need some further information on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EThe first is Brigham Creek, the rapid transit link there. That\u2019s one that the Minister for Land Information has spoken about in the committee stage before, and so is a useful example for us to really understand the M\u0101ori rights and interests there. He will be familiar with the area that is under right of first refusal (RFR) rights for the commercial settlement of Te Kawerau \u0101 Maki and Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua o Kaipara. That is a shared RFR right that arises from sale of land owned by the prison, by Corrections, and the overhang of the arrangements that were made under the Key Government to develop Hobsonville Point as a special housing area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EThere are areas in this project, as schedulised, which are both owned by the iwi or under right of first refusal for commercial settlement. Those are outstanding and unresolved since the first settlement, I think in 2012, because it requires\u2014at some point in time that\u2019s not specified in either part of the legislation\u2014for those two iwi to agree on the way that they will apportion the rights under that RFR. That was something that wasn\u2019t agreed at the time it was settled by Minister Finlayson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EMy question to him is about: he\u2019s given an explanation to the committee about how rights that arise under Treaty settlements are protected M\u0101ori land. But I\u2019ve asked him, and I don\u2019t think we\u2019re clear on whether those rights that are not crystallised yet will be recognised under this new process. Those rights that exist because there is an RFR right are one thing, and there\u2019s one side of the motorway that they exist on. And then there\u2019s another side of the road that they exist on, on the Brigham Creek side, where there\u2019s New Zealand Transport Agency land that would otherwise be under the RFR of one or the other of those because it was Crown land at the time of settlement. It was part of their commercial redress package.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EMy question is: there are some which are sort of clear that they are rights which have crystallised; they are part of the commercial RFR of those iwi. When they come up for Crown disposal, they should be settled first to that iwi. Is there a public works application here around that land? Then there\u2019s the more complicated side of the road, which is where the RFR isn\u2019t crystallised because there hasn\u2019t been agreement. In both of those cases, there is a case for public works taking because there is a public good that arises because of a rapid transit network. But these are rights which were arranged by the Crown in deeds of settlement which date back to 2004. We have a sort of hierarchy of what we\u2019re trying to achieve here with fairness outcomes for those original owners of the land, and it would be useful if the Minister would step us through how this process applies to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EMy second question is about the project at Carrington. This is slightly different for the M\u0101ori rights and interests here in that I think what I\u2019m really getting at here is the entire project is listed. It\u2019s the whole 40 hectares, and yet most of that exists. What are we talking about here? If we\u2019re talking about the Crown intervening to acquire land which iwi are already building on for the purposes of public housing, then that is a completely different conversation to acquiring some extra parts to build roads in what is a residential development that exists.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EJust to give the committee some context around this, this is a really important area to me. My father was the kaum\u0101tua of Unitec for many years. In my life, I have gone many, many times, including for Matariki celebrations of a hautapu down to the puna which exists on that Unitec Carrington site. That is, there is customary title that exists there. There is also settlement land that exists there. There is a commercial RFR around it, but there is a cultural settlement property within that block. That is all underneath the area that the Minister has schedulised here for public works taking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EIt is clear what the protections are around that customary land. It\u2019s not clear what parts of land around that puna might be included in this. It\u2019s also not clear what land is intended to be in this new process when those notices that went to the landowners and to the people with rights and interests in building it currently have gone. But those date back many, many, many years and so wouldn\u2019t be eligible under his new amendment or in the old amendment to the original Act for use by this new process. So we need to understand those two projects a bit better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u0022bee7b51215dc4e1094aa2db57b847e0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bee7b51215dc4e1094aa2db57b847e0e\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. In terms of the Brigham Creek project, that\u2019s within the category of projects that I\u2019ve indicated that I wouldn\u2019t feel able to decide as Minister, given that it\u2019s within the current bounds of my electorate. Of course, for the purposes of the policymaking in the legislation, the history is outlined by the member, and that\u2019s interesting and helpful, but I would be probably foolish to attempt to analyse further, in terms of its eligibility, various parts of the land\u2014on either side of the road, as the member has alluded to\u2014which will be more appropriate for the decision maker to determine on a case by case basis in the event that applications are received for the acquisition of land or interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EHopefully, more helpfully than that, in response, I think, to a question that the member previously posed around new clause 7 of Schedule 1AA being intended to make it clear that if a section 18 notice of desire is issued after the Act comes into force, then the project cannot opt out of the accelerated process\u2014the response is that agencies have the opportunity to opt out before they proceed further with land acquisition under the new process. They can opt out of taking into account the financial impact of the new regime, and it would be my hope and expectation that that would be made clear to any relevant landowners affected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EAs for Carrington, the member\u2019s more familiar, including through familial links to the property and its history, than me, but certainly I would point out that on a case by case basis, it will be for the decision maker at the time to consider those, taking into account all relevant factors, including the status of the land as customary land or other, and so I wouldn\u2019t want to prejudge that or do a disservice to any of the parties involved, or potentially involved, by musing more than that now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003ESo in general terms, therefore, I can tell the member that if Crown-owned land, with the right of first refusal obligation, is needed, then it can be used for the project, but the right of first refusal obligation continues to apply and would apply if that land were to be disposed of in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u002200c27a05d83d477eabe1c43b39d9b243\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200c27a05d83d477eabe1c43b39d9b243\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the next call, I\u2019m just asking members to come up with some new information\u2014new questions. Scott Willis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a87569bcf89047b5bd6a137cdeb53915\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a87569bcf89047b5bd6a137cdeb53915\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate being able to take this call, and I appreciate also the Minister\u2019s acknowledgment that the South Island is the best part of Aotearoa, because I agree\u2014notwithstanding there are some lovely places in the North. Like my colleague the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor, I\u2019m a proud South Islander, but I also wonder where the Minister for the South Island was when we were looking at priorities here\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b495de19d1b04bc38337c97b42360444\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: In the South Island.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274c5fda784f242ed9e790177d980d6c7\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, stuck in the South Island\u2014stuck in the South Island\u2014because there wasn\u2019t a ferry, quite possibly. My particular interest is not in what the Government can do for the South Island but what the South Island can do for the Government\u2014and for Aotearoa. I\u2019m particularly keen on the high-voltage direct current (HVDC) link, and here I think of the high-voltage direct current link replacement project, because this is our main trunk line, and it connects our two islands and it ensures that we keep the lights on. This is really, really valuable, but it also raises some questions because, while we know the work is required and is necessary, it is what we could consider not just critical infrastructure but lifeline infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EI\u2019m also interested in what thought has gone into not just building something or making sure it\u2019s there but, to come back to a question I had last night\u2014it\u2019s related to the carbon, but it\u2019s essentially about resilience, because, of course, we know that the fault line runs through that part of the country. The question is really about the thought that has gone into the resilience when we\u2019re building lifeline infrastructure. What consideration has been given not just to land acquisition but resilience, because that may well require more than the footprint that is currently occupied by that HVDC link. It may require a wider footprint to ensure that we\u2019re able to keep the lights on when the Alpine Fault goes, because that\u2019s due. As the Infrastructure Commission has said, that\u2019s, let\u2019s see\u2014is it a 75 percent chance that by 2070 we have that major fault? The reason why this is so critical is that if that trips, we will have a national blackout. While this project is really valuable, and necessary, and critical, and it\u2019s lifeline infrastructure, I\u2019m interested in what thought has been given to whether this legislation is actually going to give us all that we need to keep the lights on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003ESubsequent to that, what other futureproofing has been looked at, because we know there are maybe some blue-sky projects such as Taslink, which could connect us to Australia? Has there been any thought given to that HVDC link, which would create one trans-Tasman electricity market, with a 2 to 3 gigawatt HVDC cable over 2,600 kilometres? I don\u2019t see any consideration given to that, as well. I\u2019m taking the Minister\u2019s word that \u201Ccritical infrastructure\u201D is a tautology, but, perhaps, I take it to think that we should be talking about \u201Clifeline infrastructure\u201D here, not the petty stuff that isn\u2019t lifeline. I really think that\u2019s what we should be thinking of. In that consideration, I wonder if the Minister would like to detail any additional thoughts that have gone into how we build resilience. Does this legislation help us in that way\u2014building resilience\u2014particularly for our energy system that is vulnerable not only to climate change impacts, not simply to space weather, not simply to the Alpine Fault, but vulnerable to being left unconsidered by Government action. If the Minister could reply, I\u2019d really value that. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4137ef6b6b841e2ac62e8c46367ec05\u0022 data-id=\u0022e451dc1ef0cc45adb8dc7621da726270\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4137ef6b6b841e2ac62e8c46367ec05\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e451dc1ef0cc45adb8dc7621da726270\u0022\u003EMILES ANDERSON (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221c5c248ccb31418d856798fbfbccc598\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u00226b5b15305f64437c8b3811c26b601921\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b5b15305f64437c8b3811c26b601921\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Part 2 set out on Amendment Paper 350 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225faf1403350c4834b9fd768e67e2b84c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222fb19b7c503e47d28ec6162e47120a27\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002220286c7cae8e428baf31a4213f0f8a78\u0022\u003ESchedule 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u002246ea757ad0d74c628e99ffc578361804\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246ea757ad0d74c628e99ffc578361804\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: We now move to Schedule 1. The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Schedule 1 set out on Amendment Paper 350 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220dac40b0ce58427abbddf9f0797940d9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 1 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; New Zealand Labour 34;ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 20\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000090\u0022\u003ESchedule 2\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5d1db73fd674370bda452a2b94bdc4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5d1db73fd674370bda452a2b94bdc4b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Julie Anne Genter\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 2 deleting the item relating to Hamilton Southern Links be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002249b032bf435e4973ab9025da51663b17\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 20\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11;New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u002222656bec996a437f9798cb8b03db2ab4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222656bec996a437f9798cb8b03db2ab4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Julie Anne Genter\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 2 deleting the item relating to Hawke\u2019s Bay Expressway be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022616645118aa1482398c64eaed846f5d3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 20\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11;New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u0022c71389ca21154155b02e3c015a824590\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c71389ca21154155b02e3c015a824590\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Julie Anne Genter\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 2 deleting the item relating to Mill Road be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002204ea3747df184d0c8960478f29eeac5e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 20\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11;New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u00221dd0d55b29094c0e8456bd40632ed87b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221dd0d55b29094c0e8456bd40632ed87b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Julie Anne Genter\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 2 deleting the item relating to East-West link be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b11291b138e24d2baff4e716ab479dcd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 20\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11;New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4872ebd4fa44869b7e81f1a623ad156\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4872ebd4fa44869b7e81f1a623ad156\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Julie Anne Genter\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 2 deleting the item relating to Takitimu North Link\u2014Stage 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022316993fb13184c6ca1ee412f3673d625\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 20\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11;New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u00224cc7972b7dbf4aee886a61371430f859\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224cc7972b7dbf4aee886a61371430f859\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Julie Anne Genter\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 2 deleting the item relating to Warkworth to Te Hana be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002299504227d06c40719c45e2cff57fd8a4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 20\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11;New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u0022df0d76b2e15f45adb803a9e1dd64f472\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df0d76b2e15f45adb803a9e1dd64f472\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Julie Anne Genter\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 2 deleting the item relating to State Highway 1 Cambridge to Piarere Long Term Improvements Project be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fcf81c56e668441a911c1d307bb3a6ad\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 20\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11;New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc7142625b0744b588863319dea16a0f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc7142625b0744b588863319dea16a0f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Julie Anne Genter\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 2 deleting the item relating to Petone to Grenada and the Cross Valley Link be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221006d608aa394bacb0b4d2be48549689\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 20\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49, New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11;New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000099\u0022\u003ESchedule 2 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228593f135785844079e658691c703f532\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u0022b25910ca827847b384ba0474b4291929\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b25910ca827847b384ba0474b4291929\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to our final debate, which is clauses 1 to 3. This is the debate on the title, commencement, and principal Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u0022486f8a6f6dbf4db39d15d675d488a740\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022486f8a6f6dbf4db39d15d675d488a740\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019ll just say briefly that I can\u2019t imagine many contributions on the title that are not ironic. It\u2019s very descriptive, being the critical infrastructure as defined within the Act itself. The commencement is on the first day after Royal assent because there\u2019s no reason not to have that default setting, to have this important work in place as soon as reasonably possible, and reflecting the admirable promptness with which the House and more particularly the Transport and Infrastructure Committee has acted in the matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022 data-id=\u0022226cbb9bf7c44022880f27e23e96f019\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022226cbb9bf7c44022880f27e23e96f019\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I always enjoy the debate on the title and commencement. This is an important part of the House\u2019s scrutiny. This is the opportunity for the Opposition to consider the bill as a whole. It is a longstanding Standing Order that this is an important debate, and, in fact, if it is voted down, the bill itself is defeated, so we must spend time clearly understanding what it is that we are agreeing to here and making sure that the title is true and correct. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EI begin with that point because it\u2019s relevant that constitutionally what we are doing here is we are elected by our electorates\u2014most of us are seat holders here. We are elected by a particular community to advocate for that community. Every sitting electorate MP will have an example in their electorate where they have gone to a public meeting, where they have arranged a street corner meeting, where they have been to a constituent\u2019s home where they are affected by the Public Works Act. And you all know that they hate it. They hate it when big Government comes to town and says, \u201CWe are removing some of your lawn, we are taking away your home, we are removing your car parks of your dairy,\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a92b3aeab13747ae897af2fb831d4420\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: They also hate it when we can\u2019t build anything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266e7bdb94a334288a3bf73260eda9b44\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014\u201Cwe are taking away the things that are important to you.\u201D\u2014you do this. All of you do this. We say to them, \u201CI get where you\u2019re coming from, but this is so important. This is so important because it enables our community to have the infrastructure we need. We need bus lanes, we need new roads, we need new rail connections. This is really important to the country\u2019s progress. This is important to our growth. We have low productivity rates in New Zealand. We need to get our cities and our regions moving. That is why.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EWe front that\u2014we front that in our communities\u2014and we do that because we believe in it when our constituents are asking us to stick up for them. What this bill does, and what it should be called, is the \u201CPublic Works (Paying Our Hand-picked Landowners Whatever We Want) Amendment Bill\u201D. This is a bill about choosing projects with no rationale that go on a schedule somewhere to pay them more. It even reaches back to those project owners where the landowners have been told that they will be paid X and now they will be paid Y. This is a bill about making sure that National\u2019s commitment to the landowners who they think they will be paying more for their land will get that land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EWhen I put it to the Minister of Housing\u2014at the time he was the Minister of Transport in the House when fast track was going through\u2014he said, \u201CNo, we won\u2019t be paying Winton Land Company more.\u201D Is that right when we come to this bill? Is it right that the Winton Land Company will not be paid more under this bill? No, they will be paid more than they would have otherwise been paid under any other legislative process, which both sides of the House have always agreed to in the past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EThis is a bill which makes particular considerations for particular hand-picked landowners. I want every electorate MP in this House to understand that next time you front a public meeting and you tell people who are losing their homes, who are losing their front yards, and businesses that are losing their car parks, that this is important, you are also representing to them that on the National Party benches they voted for a piece of legislation which did not include them, which did not include those small-business owners, which did not include those farmers, which did not include those people in the electorate who rely on us to represent their interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EWhen the Minister for Land Information in the committee stage said that he cannot make decisions about his electorate, we all are put here constitutionally\u2014this is the way we have arranged ourselves in this Parliament\u2014to represent those people; to represent the little guy who put us here, to make sure that they\u2019re getting a fair deal, and we ask them every day to have faith in the process. This is an extra process. This is an add on. This is something which enables particular scheduled works, which during the committee stage it was very clear had no set of criteria, had nothing they could put their faith on; it was simply because they were there that made them critical. We should be clear about what this means: this is not critical infrastructure; these are hand-picked landowners that the Government has chosen to make this clear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party supports the building of critical infrastructure. We want these projects to happen, but we also want a process which is fair and makes sense for people, so that when we come to this House, we can tell the people who are losing their homes, who are losing their lands, that there is a point to it all, and that there is a process that we can point to that they can have faith in and come to us and work through it and make sure that their interests are represented alongside the interests of the wider community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EPeople have to believe in this. People have to believe in us. People have to believe in the legislative process here. The commencement date should actually be when the Fast-track Approvals Act came in, because this bill reaches back in time and drags new rights and interests into the mix that weren\u2019t there before. We should be clear that this is also backwards looking and is taking us backwards as a country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u00227da32f56032a4bc388170bc01db117f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227da32f56032a4bc388170bc01db117f7\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Every local member in this Chamber knows that the problem that people have with the Public Works Act regime at the moment is that it\u2019s not generous enough and they get mucked around for years. We are being more generous, and we are providing certainty quicker. It is faster and fairer, and for the member to pretend that she and others don\u2019t think that\u2019s a better regime is bizarre and ridiculous, particularly when her point seems to be that we\u2019re improving the system but those who are under the previous regime don\u2019t get the benefit of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003EWell, six years ago, the Government members who are now on that side could have done something about it. The fact that they didn\u2019t is on them, not us. If the performance of that member is anything to go by, while they continue not to understand what\u2019s important to New Zealanders, which includes the building of the infrastructure in the first place\u2014as my colleagues and friends from New Zealand First pointed out\u2014as well as treating landowners in a more fast and fair fashion to compensate them more generously and to give them more certainty, then they will remain on that side for as long as they wish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba7fec102ed14712920b4ec6da8619a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba7fec102ed14712920b4ec6da8619a6\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Last night, I listened to the debate and there were a number of questions raised, particularly concerning the way in which M\u0101ori are thinking and feeling about this particular piece of legislation. It won\u2019t surprise anybody in this House, I hope, that the whole public works\u2014just that frame and those two words together bring a horror and trauma back. You will all know and you must never forget those things that were true then in the legislation, and the horror that that raises is still true, however polite or seemingly reasonable it might sound.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022\u003EThe question, I guess, for me is around trust and confidence. If I can just use an example, at Marsden Point, for instance\u2014which I used to work at, by the way, for a couple of years when it was called MRC\u2014there were all these same ideas. \u201CYep, we need to get this infrastructure. We need to stand up this new system.\u201D We had Beldotti and Badger and Chiyoda and all of these names come to town and they did a lot of work there, and I was there for about a year and a half.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022\u003EIf I flick through to right now, I see that in Bream Bay, for instance, Bream Bay sand mining, those are also the other difficulties that are running in that same community. My question therefore is about trust and confidence. Can you assure people that the proper and real and enduring conversations are being held with all in that whole community, not just the chosen few? It impacts on everyone in that very tiny community of Marsden Point, Bream Bay, Ruak\u0101k\u0101, and along that whole strip. It\u2019s a relatively small piece of dirt, but when you go to Marsden Point, where I used to work, it\u2019s like the pipes are filled with concrete, you\u2019ve got logs loaded up, and so the point is that trust and confidence is near to death or dead in those communities when it comes to what this particular Government is driving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df8572c9d717414ebd8ed7b76887e04e\u0022\u003EJust to refer back to the list of stakeholders, I\u2019m just wondering in that context as well how much serious and genuine discussion was sought from the stakeholders\u2014M\u0101ori, hap\u016B, and iwi stakeholders, Minister. I\u2019d be keen to know that, because otherwise the name of this will end up as the \u201CPublic Works (Here We Go Again, Sorry You M\u0101oris) Bill\u201D. If you could respond. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbd9c7370d94435ea6aadae3250a3966\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbd9c7370d94435ea6aadae3250a3966\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Thinking about the title and the helpful conversation and dialogue we\u2019ve had last night and this morning, because what has become clear is that critical infrastructure is not really what we\u2019re talking about here\u2014unless everything is critical infrastructure, as the Minister has alluded to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EWe have here a bill that\u2019s called the Public Works (Critical Infrastructure) Amendment Bill. That doesn\u2019t really say what it is. We\u2019ve had a to and fro that\u2019s been helpful because the Minister has, essentially, said, \u201CWe are ensuring that fast track is going to be delivered through fast-tracked projects.\u201D That\u2019s OK\u2014we know that that\u2019s the Government\u2019s agenda, and we also know that there\u2019s a whole lot of pushback on fast track. I wonder whether the title is actually trying to hide the intention of this bill\u2014whether it\u2019s trying to sort of sweep it under the carpet and say that this is just critical infrastructure, \u201CDon\u2019t worry about it\u201D, when, in fact, it is fast-track projects that are listed in this schedule.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EThis is something that we\u2019ve discussed, and it\u2019s been quite open in the House. If we all acknowledge that\u2014if we acknowledge that this is where it\u2019s going\u2014why shouldn\u2019t the title say it like it is? Call it the \u201CPublic Works (Fast Track) Amendment Bill\u201D, because that would really simplify things. It would show people exactly what is being intended here, which is fast-track projects\u2014they\u2019re all listed in the bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f90d584ff41345418dbdfacdb6f36a11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f94f0db75cf4aba943661b9e6283387\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: And they are critical infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287d6c84c0b6c489b98c2e882b24ddf6c\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re not what I would consider critical infrastructure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bb371d32d6c4e06bf99a24537592b49\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Pet projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bc4dd2f05eb46dfbe24ed2b110c4d5f\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: They are certainly not lifeline infrastructure\u2014well, a couple of them are. They are\u2014exactly\u2014pet projects that have been listed in this schedule. We\u2019ve acknowledged how this works. We know that; we\u2019ve discussed it at length. Let\u2019s call it what it is, Minister. Would you be open to changing that chunk, because, really, we do need some clarity here? I\u2019ve just got to say, to call it \u201Ccritical infrastructure\u201D seems to be hiding exactly what that list tells us it\u2019s there for, Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbb5da2459db49408e15a2d53ac03319\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbb5da2459db49408e15a2d53ac03319\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. If it\u2019s hiding, it\u2019s hiding in plain sight. The projects are literally listed in the schedule. We\u2019ve discussed those at length last night and this morning. The phrase \u201Ccritical infrastructure\u201D is used in the title precisely because it is a defined term in the bill, as discussed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7415e99e6614980b481fc6a57eb686a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7415e99e6614980b481fc6a57eb686a\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I want to come to this point that the Minister\u2019s just engaged in with Scott Willis, and that is the importance of the schedule in this bill. Everything really revolves around the schedule, as we\u2019ve heard in this committee stage. I wanted to talk about it in Part 1; I didn\u2019t, really.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc1cac4c35994973ae8a2b515a827e54\u0022\u003EHon Chris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: We talked about not talking about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb29c15ac29b41a691ce47d75aa93139\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, we talked about not talking about it. Of course, that is the way that bills work. Even though we debate them in parts, obviously there is an interaction between the parts, and that goes to this stage of the debate which, of course, is on the title. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EI take the Minister\u2019s point that critical infrastructure is defined, and it is defined in that schedule. I think it would be really helpful if, in fact, the title was the \u201CPublic Works (Critical Infrastructure\u201D\u2014what it is at the moment but with an addition\u2014 \u201Cas Specified in the Schedule) Amendment Bill\u201D. That is what a lot of our debate has been about, as well, in terms of: if we\u2019re trying to tell people what this bill is about, it\u2019s to do with critical infrastructure, and that is all specified in the schedule. That critical infrastructure cannot change by a Minister making a decision; it has to come back through this House, and that is very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EWhilst the listed projects in the schedule can be amended in terms of their exact location or their exact description, there are controls that make those amendments that Ministers can do by Order in Council. There are restrictions as to scope, so I\u2019m not hugely concerned about that. What I was concerned about was related to what the past contribution was, as well: what is this relationship to the Fast-track Approvals Act? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EThe Fast-track Approvals Act, as it came through this House, also used a schedule, and that schedule was used for pet projects. We\u2019ve heard from Arena Williams the concern that this bill is also all about pet projects. I acknowledge that there were 149 projects that came in via that schedule for the Fast-track Approvals Act, and it came in at the committee stage\u2014on the day of the committee stage\u2014and that is different from this list, which has gone through the select committee process. I want to commend this Minister for having the important meaty bits of the bill actually go through a select committee process. I think it\u2019s been quite a fast select committee process, but it\u2019s a specialist piece of legislation and well done on having that actually go to the Transport and Infrastructure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EWe know, and the select committee knows, what is on this schedule and that those projects are not all of the ones that are on the fast track because they do actually have to be public works. They do have to be Government work or local work. As it turns out, the Minister has been clear with us that there are no local works on that list that\u2019s in the schedule.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also interesting to note that there\u2019s not very many works in the South Island, which, of course, doesn\u2019t come as a surprise to us South Island MPs, who are just so disheartened at this Government\u2019s decisions on the ferries which are critical to all of New Zealand\u2019s economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EPutting that to one side, I was interested in the Minister\u2019s commentary that he wouldn\u2019t be involved, as Minister, in projects in his own electorate. I\u2019m not sure why that would be a problem, anyway\u2014and he might want to expand on this\u2014given that all the projects listed have gone through the parliamentary process and all the projects listed are Government projects. They shouldn\u2019t be to the private benefit of anyone. The only private people who will be getting a benefit from this bill are those landowners where their land is taken, and they\u2019ll be getting more under this bill\u2014more money, more compensation\u2014than they would be under the normal Public Works Act process. Surely the only room for any conflict would be if the Minister was a landowner where that land was going to be taken? That goes to Arena Williams\u2019 point, as well, about who are these landowners that will benefit from this extra compensation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EMy final suggestion is that it could be the \u201CPublic Works (Critical Infrastructure But We Really Haven\u2019t Done the Analysis into How Much This Will Cost) Amendment Bill\u201D, because I asked a number of questions of the Minister about that analysis and there was\u2014it\u2019s just an opportunity for these projects to go through that process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb14e66885a84f38939e80b8e7f58194\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271f12c4b44b448a087c615d97d111286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb14e66885a84f38939e80b8e7f58194\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the suggestions of titles. Just to clarify, for the sake of the public record, I have no conflicts of interest in relation to any land interest that might be affected by the operation of this public works legislation. But, as a local MP, I want to vociferously advocate for the projects but also for any individual landowners who might be affected\u2014for example, by the hardship early acquisition provisions that already exist in the Public Works Act. It would be wrong for me to write, in my capacity as local MP, to myself as the decision maker as land information Minister. To that extent, I\u2019ve seen it appropriate to step aside from that decision-making role.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022 data-id=\u00229d253eb52b3b41a38b9743c2ad7b266f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d253eb52b3b41a38b9743c2ad7b266f\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. If the Minister for Land Information can take some time to respond to this call\u2014we\u2019re talking about the conflict issue\u2014how is it that he\u2019s the decision maker regarding what goes into the schedule of listed critical infrastructure? The Minister is saying that he\u2019s not that. The point that the Minister is making is that he doesn\u2019t want to advocate once that goes into the process that this bill enables. Thank you for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022bdfd1489e1624a6a8f1a99308a486969\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bdfd1489e1624a6a8f1a99308a486969\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227f118f3515cb4ecea5e201b51ff87da4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000140\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000141\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000142\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000143\u0022\u003EBill to be reported with amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fed346050dde4ed280ac3748e20a2df5\u0022\u003EHauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana Marine Protection Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d858209b854d4696ac63f10679d5d842\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000146\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 13 August.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223567d5afda2c4b05a9915c42aeded950\u0022\u003EPart 2  Marine reserves, seafloor protection areas, and high protection areas\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022 data-id=\u002242d062d1403f4fdea279a27156fc29ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242d062d1403f4fdea279a27156fc29ee\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now turn to the Hauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana Marine Protection Bill. When we were last considering this bill, we were on Part 2. This is the debate on clauses 10 to 25\u2014\u201CMarine reserves, seafloor protection areas, and high protection areas\u201D\u2014and Schedules 2 to 4. Once again, the question is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5f3aa2bbf744c5bbda8efff6859c3df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5f3aa2bbf744c5bbda8efff6859c3df\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. I am the MP for Auckland Central, which includes two of the Hauraki Islands\u2014Waiheke and Aotea Great Barrier\u2014and I therefore take it as an immense privilege and responsibility to also speak for that part of the ocean, T\u012Bkapa Moana, the Hauraki Gulf. I actually just want to commend some of the former Ministers who are in the House: the Hon Rachel Brooking, who we actually worked with quite closely to ensure that we had that high protected area, particularly around The Noises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003EWhat we have presented in this massive Amendment Paper from the Government is unfortunately a situation that has completely blind-sided all of the incredible conservationists and community members\u2014many from my community, particularly on those Hauraki Islands, but also many in the central city who have long advocated for the protection of this jewel in the crown of T\u0101maki-makau-rau. We have a complete blind-siding of all the work that they have done being seemingly unwound and undermined by this Amendment Paper chucked on the Table at the last minute. We have heard loud and clear from those conservationists, from community, from iwi, and from hap\u016B that this is simply not good enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003EWe have some really basic, fundamental questions that we believe the Minister must answer, because there will be no other meaningful opportunity for him to be held accountable to these questions in particular. The questions that we want to ask are particularly about the carve-outs that are being made, particularly for ring net fishers. And I would really appreciate if this can be a meaningful engagement and back and forth, because I\u2019ll note that I also have tabled amendments in my name, which we\u2019ll get back to. The Minister needs to answer this very basic question: just how much resource\u2014if it can be at all, in any way, shape, or form, quantified by his officials\u2014has been poured, over months and months and months of work, into producing this Amendment Paper, to get us to a place where this Amendment Paper will end up saving approximately, based on the official advice that we have access to, just $14,000 a year in revenue for ring net fishers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003EThis Government likes to preach a lot about cost-benefit analysis and social investment and about saving money, so my basic question for the Minister is: how much of our collective capacity, channelled through Government decisions, has been wasted to get us to a place where we are now undermining a decade-plus worth of work by community conservationists, iwi, and hap\u016B to get to the place of these high protected areas in T\u012Bkapa Moana, the Hauraki Gulf, just for the Government to turn around and say, \u201CWe\u2019re going to whack this massive Amendment Paper on the Table, which undermines all of that mahi, to save $14,000 worth of revenue.\u201D? I\u2019d additionally ask: how many ring net fishers are we actually talking about? We\u2019d like some real clarity from the Minister about the trade-offs and the intentions with those trade-offs that the Minister is making. Those very basic questions to the Minister\u2014and I\u2019d appreciate him rising to his feet after I sit, so that we can have this meaningful and proper engagement\u2014how much resource has been wasted in producing this Amendment Paper to save $14,000 in ring net fishers\u2019 revenue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s go a step further than that and also ask what the trade-offs actually are in terms of long-term sustainability of our fish stocks. Has there been any economic quantification\u2014or cost-benefit analysis, if you will\u2014about the exploitation and the continual extraction that this Government seems to be intent on enabling from our natural environment and how that will ultimately have a knock-on effect to the sustainability of those fish stocks, which, in turn, might actually deplete even more than that $14,000 per annum from ring net fishers, in terms of our totality of our fisheries? Those basic questions for the Minister: how much resource\u2014how much of the taxpayer money that this Government likes to wax lyrical about\u2014has been wasted in producing this Amendment Paper that undermines the will of the people of this country, especially of T\u0101maki-makau-rau, and especially of Auckland Central? In turn, how many ring net fishers are actually going to be impacted, and has there been any broader economic analysis whatsoever about the detrimental economic impact that the likes of this amendment will actually have on those high protected areas and on our fish stocks?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022298f568fedf2499e887ebda2fe75b1a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022298f568fedf2499e887ebda2fe75b1a8\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and thank you, too, to the member for Auckland Central for reminding me that when we did introduce this bill, it was part of a package, and that included changes to the fisheries plan, and I was doing that as the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries. I think that all of that has been put to an end. Related to the previous contribution and asking what analysis has happened around this $14,000, what also has happened in relation to work that was on that fisheries plan and the relationship between the fisheries plan and this bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003ENow, going to clause 19A\u2014the new clause 19A in the Amendment Paper\u2014this is the one where \u201Cring net fishing for authorised [person] in certain high protection areas\u201D is, well, authorised. In the commentary about this bill that I\u2019ve heard reference to, there have been questions around grandparenting and how many of these fishers this exclusion or the authorisation will apply to. The way that this clause works is it says that a \u201Cperson is authorised to undertake ring net fishing by the Director-General in accordance with subsections (3) to (5);\u201D. Then, if you go down to subclauses (3) and (5), it must be in writing. But subclause (4) is really important here: \u201CThe Director-General may authorise a person to undertake ring net fishing only if\u2014(a) the person is a commercial fisher; and (b) the person has, before the commencement of this Act, undertaken ring net fishing in 1 (or both) of the following high protection areas:\u201D. That would appear to be the grandfathering clause, but I\u2019d really like the Minister to engage in this question and this clause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EPresumably, the people who are fishing at the moment, who are doing ring net fishing in these areas, will be able to apply to the Director-General to continue, but nobody else will be able to apply to the Director-General to continue. That might be where the Government\u2019s coming from in terms of talking about grandfathering this provision, but later on in the bill\u2014and it is in Part 3\u2014there is a clause 34, which is the ability to transfer permits. The question here is\u2014and noting that is in Part 3\u2014is there anything to stop these grandfathered people, once they exist, from transferring those permissions to fish in an area where otherwise it would be prohibited?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EA couple of questions there: one is whether he can take us through exactly how the grandfathering is supposed to work and what the parameters are on that, and the earlier question was about what the relationship is with the fisheries plan that had been consulted on. Consultation was all go when the election was happening. That would have restricted a good number of areas. If he can comment on that at more of a high level and how that interacts with this bill. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8567ae57dda4e9cb54e8dcdd382de8f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8567ae57dda4e9cb54e8dcdd382de8f\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I want to take us back for a minute to clause 16 in Part 2. I\u2019ve got a few questions for the Minister, partly in response to some of what he said when we were previously debating this bill in the committee stage. Clause 16 lays out the purpose of the high protection areas (HPAs), which is \u201Cto protect and enhance indigenous biodiversity within the high protection areas and, if that biodiversity is degraded, [to] restore it.\u201D So parking that as the purpose, the overarching purpose, of this bill, I want to make some comparisons between, of course, the bill that was reported back to this House by the select committee and the changes that have been brought in by the Minister through the amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003EFirstly, customary non-commercial fishing now no longer needs to meet biodiversity objectives. I will park that and I\u2019ll come back to that in terms of questions a little bit later. But we know, of course, that there were a number of conversations that were had between the fishing industry and Minister Jones that then led to a Cabinet note on 26 September where it was stated that Minister Jones had some potential amendments that were raised with him by the fishing industry, the seafood industry, to which the Minister in the chair, the Hon Tama Potaka, replied he was not interested in progressing. Great! But between then and October, when the announcement was made, things changed, and those amendments are the ones that we\u2019re debating here today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003EI would like to know the rationale for those changes. The Minister spoke previously of the need for balance, which I accept. He made the point that if that weren\u2019t a requirement, then when we were in Government, we would have just turned the entire of the T\u012Bkapa Moana / Hauraki Gulf into a marine protected area. I get the need for balance. We didn\u2019t do that, for obvious reasons. I get the rationale for retaining customary non-commercial fishing. We would have retained it for those similar reasons. But I want to tease out the responses behind that rationale.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003EIt has been mentioned in media reporting that the Minister did not respond to\u2014so I would like a response here in the committee today. It has been laid out that under $14,000 is the revenue of catch from across all HPAs, which means the potential revenue from the two HPAs will be a lot less than that. It is also set out in the Cabinet paper that less than 10 percent of the total catch from existing fishers happens in the HPA. The economic argument there, from my point of view, is very weak. If the Minister wants to defend that as the rationale for making the changes, I would like to hear whether there is other evidence that shows that the revenue is actually higher or that the total catch percentage is higher, and I would like the Minister to point to that evidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003ENow, there\u2019s also been in the media some reporting\u2014and also Seafood New Zealand has pointed out that this is about saving the livelihoods of the fishers who are allowed to now continue to fish in the two HPAs. I want to echo the questions by my colleagues, both Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick and Rachel Brooking, around the number of fishers that would be captured by this, because there are parameters in the amendment, but not the number of fisher people who would be allowed to continue. It says in the Minister\u2019s own Cabinet paper that, based on the nature and current distribution of ring net fishing activities in the Gulf, it is likely that ring net fishing activity that usually occurs within these HPAs could be relocated elsewhere in the Gulf with minimal impact to the fishers. My colleague Rachel Boyack has raised that previously, but there\u2019s been no response from the Minister on that point. If the argument is saving livelihoods and the Minister\u2019s Cabinet paper says that that could actually take place in other areas of the HPA, then that is also a weak argument. If it is not, I would like to hear why not from the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003EThe third argument is food for South Auckland\u2014again, it has been reported on in the media. Ministers have not commented on that. I would like to know how will the Minister ensure that the fish that is caught in the Gulf in the HPAs will actually feed the communities that Minister Jones has alluded to in the media; if not, why not? The Minister previously responded\u2014the Minister laughs. The Minister previously responded that it was \u201Cvibes\u201D. I\u2019m not sure that we should be making law based on vibes, Minister, that it is going to the communities, given that you are degrading the health of the moana to allow this to happen. I think it is a fair question to ask where that food is going to go and how the Minister will ensure\u2014I\u2019ve got more questions for the Minister, but I\u2019ll leave it at this for now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022 data-id=\u00227cc01f0eec4249a5a043ed38418a429b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227cc01f0eec4249a5a043ed38418a429b\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E I appreciate the opportunity to respond to some of the genuine concerns that have been conveyed amongst the polarising verbiage this morning. I remind members opposite that the protection offered by this bill and the amendments therein being proposed today is the result of a series of compromises over time. We all know that for many, many years, many communities, iwi, fishers, sea cleaners\u2014a whole bunch of people\u2014have been really triggered to get something across the line, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re going to do today. We will not be reverting back to the mediocrity of repetitive noise when we\u2019ve got a job to do, and that\u2019s to protect and triple the protection of the Hauraki Gulf, and that\u2019s what we are focused on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EEnvironmental pragmatism is exactly what Raewyn Peart of the Environmental Defence Society appreciated and acknowledged in recent articles saying that actually we\u2019re doing a good thing by getting this over the line rather than resorting to six years of ideology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EIn response to some of the musings and questions of members opposite\u2014welcome back to the Central Auckland MP to this discussion\u2014the fisheries plan is one that the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries is responsible for, and he has conveyed that. I understand that there were monitoring and indicator frameworks that have been established. I\u2019ll also remind members opposite that Central Auckland is not the only electorate adjacent to the Hauraki Gulf.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EThe second thing is that I really acknowledge and appreciate the mahi of Minister Shane Jones around the rock lobster ban. It\u2019s absolutely fantastic. I understand that some of the members who are not here today\u2014I\u2019ve mentioned three\u2014in a recent Facebook post were seen eating, perhaps trevally, at the Toby\u2019s Seafood market in Auckland recently. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EClause 19A on some electorate campaign: clause 19A, five fishers, no one else; review after three years, and the ability to transfer? No. No ability to transfer\u2014not transferable. Identified by the director-general by way of their fisheries client number, and the director-general will issue letters to the five fishers who are involved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EWhilst we\u2019ve received a bit of a lecture today about the economics of the situation, I\u2019m here to respond to some of the ideological fever by saying this: there is going to be a tripling of the marine protection and the Hauraki Gulf, notwithstanding the six years that members opposite have sought under their leadership to get this across the line. Actually, the sea change kaupapa had been going for years before you turned up. Years before you turned up, there were people who were seeking an increase in protection, the dealing to the kina barrens, and a whole range of other activities. That\u2019s where we\u2019ve landed today. I\u2019m very enthusiastic about the energy that\u2019s come to this issue but also as we reach the denouement of this conversation. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022133d9d98e27c40a8bc7c7ee183aef716\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022133d9d98e27c40a8bc7c7ee183aef716\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d just really like to draw the attention of the few people who may be tuned into Parliament TV\u2014sorry for your time\u2014to the fact that that is supposed to be our Minister of Conservation, currently defending eroding legislation that was first introduced to this House which does do all of the things which he alluded to in his contribution in terms of tripling the protection in the Hauraki Gulf. But he has not done anything to progress that. In fact, if anything, all he has done is actively undermine it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003EMy earlier contribution at the beginning of Part 2 of this debate was asking the Minister to engage in a meaningful back and forth because, God forbid, the people of this country deserve some answers to some really bloody basic questions. The Minister did not engage substantively in any of those questions. Instead, he just sought to attack the Opposition and he called it \u201Cideological fever\u201D. How dare we ask about the economic analysis that this Government has undertaken! The only facts that we have to go off\u2014based on the official advice that we have access to, that this Minister has received\u2014is that this massive Amendment Paper, which makes carve-outs on the behest of the fishing lobby and industry, is only going to save ring-net fishers revenue\u2014not profit; revenue\u2014at $14,000 per year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003EThe Minister can give us no insight, despite the very specific questions, about how much resource was wasted in the public sector to get us to that point; nor can he provide any meaningful information, data, evidence, or\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014even opinion on what the contrast is with the potential economic impact of allowing the undermining of these high protected areas and allowing these carve-outs for ring-net fishers. Ultimately, hopefully, the Minister of Conservation understands that ecology and economy are deeply interconnected. If you allow our resources to not renew because you deplete them to the extent of extinction, then you\u2019re going to destroy this thing that you say that you care about growing, Minister. Frankly, I think that anyone who calls themselves a Minister of Conservation and is currently priding themselves on bringing forward Amendment Papers which actively undermine the intention which he outlined in his contribution just then should hang his head in shame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003EThere are some more really basic questions that I hope the Minister addresses, because not only is this bad law; this is bad law made badly. The Amendment Paper that the Government decided to drop on all of us did not have the typical requisite official information provided with it, in the form of the likes of regulatory impact statements with bills that are first introduced. Instead, they decided to go through a back door after what has been publicly reported as engagement with the fishing industry, and then drop this Amendment Paper on all of us\u2014again, completely blindsiding the community, the conservationists, iwi, and hap\u016B that the Minister has the gall to cite as advocating for in progressing this legislation today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003EThe basic questions that we have for the Minister remain\u2014if he\u2019d like to address them\u2014about the actual contextual economic analysis here. How much resource was wasted to put this Amendment Paper on the table to ostensibly save $14,000 in revenue for ring net fishers? That is a basic question, and if the Minister cannot answer that, then the public should be rightfully ashamed of him in this position. The second basic question is: what is the long-term economic impact of enabling these high protected areas to be undermined by further exploitation from these ring net fishers? Again, just for saving $14,000 in revenue; apparently\u2014from the best that we can make our heads or tails of the official information\u2014$14,000 across all of the ring net fishers. It blows the mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003EWe also really want to ask the Minister because, as members from the Labour Party have cited, we have heard time and again from Ministers of this Government that this is apparently about more affordable fish\u2014and they have dared to cite people in South Auckland for that purpose. How exactly is this Amendment Paper going to get us any guarantee whatsoever of affordable fish, especially when he is allowing for the undermining in the long term of our fishing stocks? Basic question to the Minister. Please answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa835f9107e14f72868d0b09efcf29d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa835f9107e14f72868d0b09efcf29d2\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, thank you for the rogue superfluidity that seeps through the sorcerous rage of members opposite. We are of the environmentally pragmatic space on this side of the House, and Raewyn Peart\u2014again, one of the most well-known commentators and enthusiasts around the Hauraki Gulf\u2014is absolutely in the headspace that we are in. Back it, be happy, move forward, and get ready for more protection. One fulltime-equivalent in the Department of Conservation has basically been working on this space for the last year. And as members opposite know, I might have a little bit of experience in the Hauraki Gulf that they may not have had experience with, so when iwi and M\u0101ori are thrown into random comments around what they want in the Hauraki Gulf, I would recommend that this committee be absolutely careful and prudent around the selective use of narratives and polemics that actually may not recognise reality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EIn relation to the rationale for removing biodiversity objectives from the requirements for customary fishing, as I mentioned\u2014three times\u2014in the previous committee of the whole House session that we had\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1a92e2b054047ae9cb136c00e086c69\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: One more time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca667b9d397a41d985cf43bacd2ccf8f\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll remember this one more time: I do not consider it appropriate for customary fishing to be regulated by the biodiversity objectives. I do not think that it\u2019s up to the Director-General of the Department of Conservation or even members opposite to tell mana moana what their customary fishing should be or shouldn\u2019t be. That\u2019s why we have been very carefully listening to iwi and M\u0101ori, listening to the very people that members opposite use as a sword to attack this debate and this committee of the whole House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EThey have said to me, actually, \u201CWe don\u2019t want our tikanga to be subject to a discussion around biodiversity. That\u2019s a matter that\u2019s for the Fisheries Act. We don\u2019t want even more green tape or blue tape wrapping around the exercise of tikanga. No, we don\u2019t. What we want to have\u201D\u2014this is what I\u2019ve been told\u2014\u201Cis customary fishing intersecting with the Fisheries Act and not another blue-tape weight on our shoulders when we are exercising our tikanga.\u201D That is what I have heard, and we have channelled that into amendments accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003ENow, in relation to the targeted kahawai, trevally, and grey mullet species typically of low interest to the export market, whilst we can\u2019t trace every fish caught we do know that these types of fish are primarily for domestic consumption and more affordable than other options.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022 data-id=\u0022a78a4afe3ec64c039148e7b498dbe9e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a78a4afe3ec64c039148e7b498dbe9e4\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. The arrogance of this Minister is outstanding. The fact that the conservation Minister cannot provide a rationale for weakening protections to the Hauraki Gulf\u2014that is already degraded, and the degradation is laid out in great detail in his own Cabinet paper. He has no remorse that he\u2019s weakening these protections. All he tries to do in this House is to take credit for work that wasn\u2019t even his, that was the culmination of 10 years of work by stakeholders. All he sits there and does is take credit for this. He cannot give us a rationale, despite repeated questions and requests for an economic rationale. Tell us why fishing cannot be moved to different parts of the Gulf when your own Cabinet paper says it can. Tell us how degrading the Gulf is actually going to be beneficial to anyone. He cannot give us answers to this, and so it is very clear that all this Government is doing is pandering to the demands of industry lobbyists. That is literally the only answer that we on this side of the House can come to, because the Minister will not answer any questions in a way that is substantive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003ELet me ask again a couple of questions\u2014[Interruption] All members opposite can do is heckle. Take a call! Take a call and tell us why your Government is weakening protections in the Gulf. Try and give us a rationale that makes any sense. I dare you to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll leave the point around customary fishing, although the Minister\u2014actually, no, I won\u2019t, because I would like some answers from the Minister as to who he\u2019s consulted with when it comes to mana moana. There were submissions that those of us who were on\u2014the Minister\u2019s not even listening. So much care for conservation, the Minister\u2019s not even listening to our questions, let alone giving us any extensive responses here. All he\u2019s doing is having a chat with the hecklers on the other side of the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003EAnyway, give us some answers, Minister. Who did you consult with when it comes to mana moana asking for customary non-commercial fishing not to have to meet biodiversity objectives? We heard the opposite on the Environment Committee as well. I know that many of them made the point that it goes to the social licence, and that is an important point whether the Minister thinks so or not. There was also part of the amendment that actually took out the requirement for regulations to be made collaboratively with mana moana, from memory, and it\u2019s weakened that to just consultation with mana moana. I would like to know where that came from as well. But, going back to my point, who did the Minister consult with?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003EI also have questions that the Minister has not answered when it comes to new clause 19A in Amendment Paper 260 around the substantive detail around ring net fishing for authorised persons. Who are they? The Minister named one seafood outlet. Does he want to name the other fishers who would be benefiting from this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238ce3e2c086049d6a28636eca3204821\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Why is he naming fishers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244010a47781944f69575932a9ee2bc88\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, why is he naming one and not the other? If he\u2019s going to do that, then tell us who these fishers are. Tell us why they cannot fish in another part of the Gulf and that protections in two high protection areas have to be weakened in order to allow them to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003ECan the Minister confirm that new clause 19A is a grandfathering? The grandfathering of this particular provision has been alluded to in media reports. Is this the provision that grandfathers it and, if so, how? It\u2019s not very clear to me in that clause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2c0bf139de64efa8769171d78bbd44b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2c0bf139de64efa8769171d78bbd44b\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E I would be very, very cautious before I start questioning my experience in the T\u012Bkapa Moana. Unlike others who speak from advocacy and the confines and privileges of this House, I have been responsible for actually establishing aquaculture in the Hauraki Gulf: mussels, ecklonia restoration, and scallop restoration. I\u2019ve also been responsible for progressing and processing a variety of tourism concessions in the Gulf. I\u2019ve also been responsible for encouraging a whole range of coastal restoration, particularly around places like \u014Cmana. So the undermining attacks on my experience I would treat with severe caution, in relation to the types of representatives that I\u2019m sure members opposite know very, very well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EShall I list them, just so you know the types of people that I engage with around the imposition\u2014now rejected through this amendment\u2014of rogue biodiversity objectives over and above customary arrangements? Whether or not that\u2019s Herearoha Skipper and others from Ng\u0101ti P\u0101oa, Paul Majury from Marut\u016B\u0101hu, David Taipari from Marut\u016B\u0101hu, Nicola MacDonald from Ng\u0101ti Wai and Ng\u0101ti Rehua, Mook Hohneck from Ng\u0101ti Manuhiri; Ngarimu Blair and others from Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua \u014Cr\u0101kai, or Billy Brown, Laurie Beamish, Jada MacFie, and others from Ng\u0101i Tai ki T\u0101maki, I could list 50 people very carefully and their view that actually the encroachment of K\u0101wanatanga and regulation on customary fisheries is not supported. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EHence why we have said that, no, customary fishing already has an interaction with the Fisheries Act. We\u2019re not going to go and double down on blue tape over and above that through imposing biodiversity objectives not created or determined by M\u0101ori, but by a range of individuals and organisations, on that tikanga\u2014we aren\u2019t going to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003ESo, again, it\u2019s 10 years of work\u2014actually, it\u2019s been a lot longer than that\u2014and if the members opposite had taken the time to read through a variety of reports from 25 years ago, they would also see that the aspiration to deliver better protection of the Gulf continues to be channelled in different ways. But, in light of what we are trying to progress today, absolutely we are committed to tripling the marine protection of the Gulf and to ensuring that tikanga is actually acknowledged but not controlled, and that\u2019s the difference of ideology in this space. We are not trying to impose more regulatory impost on the exercise of tikanga; we are just recognising it for what it is. It has its interaction and, actually, we\u2019re very comfortable with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8157bd25d8a4f2c9451cb5386f6750c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8157bd25d8a4f2c9451cb5386f6750c\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I wanted to pick up specifically on the Minister\u2019s admission\u2014you know, it\u2019s clear, with the bill, that he said a number of engagements and compromises have been made. I want to ask the Minister a number of questions about that, particularly in relation to the timeline of the decisions that led up to this amendment bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve got a time line here, which really clearly outlines the stages, particularly of the Cabinet decisions, which led up to this Amendment Paper. What it makes really clear is that the Minister was not accepting of these kinds of exemptions earlier on in the process. This time line makes it really clear. For example, on 26 September there was a Cabinet paper that made it really clear, that literally said you\u2019ve met with the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries, who\u2019s raised potential amendments, and that you\u2019ve indicated that you do not wish to progress any further amendments. And, then, just four days later on 30 September, we then suddenly had evidence that these amendments had actually been inserted into the Cabinet papers and the Minister was recommending that they actually be implemented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022\u003ENow, we\u2019ve heard the Minister say both that he\u2019s accepting of the evidence that these exemptions will undermine the purpose of the whole point of the Hauraki Gulf marine protection bill, but then we\u2019ve also heard him say that he\u2019s got new advice from the Department of Conservation saying that it will have minimal impact. Now, what I\u2019d really like to hear from the Minister is: will he share with the public and with this committee today what that advice actually is so that we can be much more informed and understand those compromises that have been made? Right now, we\u2019re just in the dark about it and we\u2019re having to take the Minister\u2019s assertions based on not a whole lot. I would love to hear directly from the Minister about his process and whether the evidence about that minimal impact came before or after his decision, and what compromises does he believe he\u2019s been willing to make to allow these specific limited exemptions for these ring-netters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022\u003EHe talked, just before, about we don\u2019t want to add to this excessive regulatory burden and make it really complicated. How does he perceive the exemptions for the ring-netters will actually operate in practice? What we know is when people are out in their boats fishing\u2014how do they identify and how will authorities identify who can and can\u2019t be fishing in these high protected areas? Presumably, the community is going to be absolutely clued in to where these areas are and they may be approaching or questioning different vessels and what they\u2019re up to and who\u2019s allowed and what not\u2014how is this actually going to work? Some response from the Minister about the pragmatics of that would be much appreciated. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022 data-id=\u0022474d1c3fd5864f71b7ab56fbfc10e8a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022474d1c3fd5864f71b7ab56fbfc10e8a3\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I want to come back to the call that I took last week at the beginning of the committee stage on Part 2, because the Minister gave some answers to my specific questions that were, to be honest, far too broad and didn\u2019t actually get into the specificity of what I was digging into. That is the matter of the section of the Amendment Paper that allows ring net fishing in two of the high protection areas (HPAs).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003EI want to come back to that. Just so that I\u2019m really clear, it\u2019s Part 2, clause 19, \u201CCustomary fishing in high protection areas\u201D, on page 16 of his tabled Amendment Paper 260. I just remind the committee that the reason we\u2019re digging in and asking these questions to get detailed answers is that we\u2019ve asked the questions; we actually haven\u2019t had the detailed answers on this part of the Amendment Paper. It hasn\u2019t been to a select committee. In usual practice, these types of changes would sit before a select committee so that we can actually get answers to the questions. So I\u2019ll keep this call quite short because it\u2019s specific, my question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003EIf you look at the Cabinet paper\u2014which, again, I note again, is actually the Minister\u2019s own words, so this is not advice he received or from any other organisation; his own words. Paragraph 49, on page 9 of his Cabinet paper, says: \u201CBased on the nature and current distribution of ring net fishing activities in the Gulf, it is likely that ring net fishing activity that usually occurs within these HPAs could be relocated elsewhere in the Gulf with minimal impact to the fishers.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003EMy question was: what specific advice has the Minister received in order to inform the comment he made in his Cabinet paper that specifically states that this fishing activity could be relocated elsewhere? Where, Minister\u2014where could it be relocated to? What advice did he receive? There would be advice that actually forms the guidance for the writing of this paper, that is in his own name. And I note before that the under-secretary, Jenny Marcroft, yelled out that the reason these places have been chosen is because that\u2019s where the fish are\u2014well, actually, the Cabinet paper says otherwise. The Cabinet paper says something entirely different to what she yelled out. So maybe she could take a call and elaborate on the advice she\u2019s received as the under-secretary to show that this is the best place in terms of where the fish are. It specifically states here that that activity could be relocated elsewhere with minimal impact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s my specific question. It hasn\u2019t been answered with accuracy, and I\u2019d like to hear from the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022 data-id=\u002234c658b56cf54edabd85bbcad2ec5d4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234c658b56cf54edabd85bbcad2ec5d4c\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. In relation to the question on who the fishers are: no, we won\u2019t be releasing those names. That\u2019s a privacy matter. Given some of the reported violence against these fishers\u2014absolutely repulsive behaviour\u2014we will not be releasing those names. But I\u2019m sure if members opposite have a view, they too will exercise caution around that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EIn terms of ring net fishing exemptions and enforcement, there are proposed to be six full-time rangers, shoreline technology, a collaboration between the Department of Conservation and the two councils\u2014Waikato Regional Council and Auckland Council\u2014and Fisheries New Zealand to ensure that the appropriate enforcement and compliance action is carried out, including on that small number of ring net fishers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EWill we share advice on the ring net fishing decisions? I\u2019ve been advised that the conditions on ring net fishing will mean that the impact beyond targeted species is expected to be minimal. All advice I\u2019ve received will be released proactively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022 data-id=\u00220013b2efc0a74dcbad440a91b7ec529c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220013b2efc0a74dcbad440a91b7ec529c\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I just want to be crystal clear in response to the earlier contribution from the Minister in which he cited that members of the Opposition were apparently putting attacks on his experience, particularly in the te ao M\u0101ori. I just want to be crystal clear that that\u2019s not what we were doing. Minister, none of this is personal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003EThis is a matter of principle: the principles of Aotearoa New Zealand. And, actually, we think it\u2019s kind of about what words mean, because you can\u2019t say that something\u2019s a high protected area if you\u2019re then going to undermine that high protection. We would say, Minister, that if you do want to entertain or engage with that previous experience that you yourself noted, we wouldn\u2019t fight you to apply that experience to the work that you do as Minister of Conservation, which I think would be the opposite of saying that it\u2019s too expensive to save our endangered wildlife. More so than that, if you want to talk about how we should not be having tikanga in the space of this legislation subjected to greater regulation, then that, Minister, is an approach that you around the Cabinet table should apply to everything else that you\u2019re doing, whether it be the Regulatory Standards Bill, education, health, Resource Management Act reforms, or the water services bill that went through this House earlier this morning\u2014all of which sideline te ao M\u0101ori and tikanga M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003EBut back to the kaupapa in front of us. That was quite an extraordinary contribution from the Minister earlier, in which he finally responded to one of the three questions that I put to him with regard to economic impact and cost-benefit analysis. He spoke to how the resources that were used to produce the Amendment Paper that is on the Table before us for this bill, were dropped by the Government\u2014completely blindsiding community conservation, iwi, and hap\u016B, who all worked on that Sea Change project for the better part of a decade. The Minister was saying that the only resources that have been used for a year on that Amendment Paper was one fulltime-equivalent in the Department of Conservation. This is brand new information, and what that information tells us, with a cursory google, is that the approximate salary of one public official is around $100,000. We\u2019re talking about around a $100,000 cost, if we\u2019re to take the Minister\u2019s response at face value, for producing the Amendment Paper that is currently on the Table, to save, ostensibly, apparently $14,000 in ring net fishers\u2019 revenue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003EA back of the napkin calculation tells us that the cost of that Amendment Paper is seven times more expensive than the money that\u2019s being saved. This from the Government that waxes and wanes lyrical about waste of taxpayer money. That\u2019s not even to touch the issue of the bigger problem that comes with exploiting and exhausting our natural environment to the point that it can no longer produce the resources that we desperately need. The Minister exposed in his lack of answer earlier that there has been no economic analysis whatsoever on the long-term impacts of enabling these ring net fishers to operate in these so-called high protected areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003EThis brings me to the two Amendment Papers that are in my name on the Table. I would really invite members of the Government to properly consider\u2014not just vote in the way that they are told by their Ministers but to truly consider\u2014the principles that we are trying to achieve through progressing this legislation; the noble principles that the Minister gets up and cites every time he adds a contribution to this committee about increasing the protection for our biodiversity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003EThe first Amendment Paper in my name requires that if there are going to be any further exemptions or carve-outs to these high protected areas to this legislation, it cannot be done through the back door\u2014it cannot in any way, shape, or form be exposed to the same kinds of allegations that we have seen levelled against the Amendment Papers in the public sphere with regard to back-door access for lobbyists who can access our Ministers in their rooms in the Beehive and make these kinds of deals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003EMy first Amendment Paper would require explicitly that any further exemptions, if there are to be any\u2014because we believe there shouldn\u2019t be, but if there are to be any\u2014are brought back to this House for democratic participation and due scrutiny. The second Amendment Paper requires that there is a sunset clause on these carve-outs for the ring net fishing exemptions. We are, I believe, being incredibly charitable with this by saying that that sunset clause should operate with a three-year time horizon, because if the intention is to signal a transition into greater conservation, then that is precisely what this Amendment Paper would achieve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022eaee0771b4c34f08bab198d8acb209a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eaee0771b4c34f08bab198d8acb209a7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Rachel Brooking, but before I take the next call, I want to make it very clear that I would like questions rather than speeches for the next section of this\u2014questions directly to the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022291a5da205e24321bde651b11f0668b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022291a5da205e24321bde651b11f0668b8\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to thank the Minister for answering one question in his barrage of very long and interesting phrases\u2014I\u2019ll come back to those in a minute because they are relevant\u2014but I asked about the grandparenting and how he was going to be sure that the grandparenting could not be transferred, and his answer was that there would be a letter from the director-general about that. My follow-up question to that is: does he think it would be more robust if that was specified in the legislation or\u2014we\u2019re back on his Amendment Paper; we\u2019re back on new clause 19A, which is on pages 16 and 17\u2014does he think that subclause (5)(c) could be amended so that \u201Ccontain any other information prescribed by the regulations\u201D and that the relevance of not being able to transfer could be specified there or somewhere else in that clause?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EAlso, I asked some questions about the role of the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries in the Hauraki fisheries plan and, also, the change of the name with the Ministers. I haven\u2019t heard a good answer to that, but I\u2019m wondering, when the Minister uses phrases like \u201Csorcerous rage\u201D, if he is in fact pretending to be the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries and if they have now become one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EI\u2019m also interested, when he said that he would \u201Ctreat with severe caution\u201D questioning his experience, if that was a threat to the members of the Opposition? I know the previous contributor\u2014I won\u2019t repeat what she was saying\u2014was basically saying this wasn\u2019t personal, but the Minister named a long line of people, many of whom I\u2019ve dealt with in the past and I have full respect for these people, but what I want to clarify is: was the Minister saying that in his list of names, including people like Nicola MacDonald and others, they wanted the changes in this Amendment Paper to those biodiversity objectives? Is that what he was saying? That is a very important thing to know. He can make his point that the Minister knows a lot more about this part of the country than, say, I do. I accept that fully, but it\u2019s not relevant to the bill. What is relevant is his Amendment Paper that is changing reference to those biodiversity objectives. Do those people that he mentioned support these changes? Was that his point? Was his point that they support the changes to the biodiversity objectives, or was his point that he knows and talks to a lot of people, or was his point something in between\u2014that they have been consulted on the amendment? That wasn\u2019t clear, and it\u2019s very important because those names are now in the Hansard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EI note that during this committee stage, I have been getting messages from people\u2014I won\u2019t name them\u2014who have been named in this Chamber by the Minister where he has made it sound like those people are in support of the amendments. They are very clearly not in support of the amendments, but they do want this legislation to pass. That is my position as well, Madam Chair. I want this legislation to pass because it is better than the current state, but significant amendments have been made, and it\u2019s unclear why they have been made. I would like the Minister to also reflect that when he is bandying around these names, does he do that in saying that these people specifically endorse his amendments that are on this Amendment Paper, or that these are people who have spent their lives and will continue to spend their lives protecting the Hauraki Gulf both now in the form that it will be in this bill, and that they will want to go further as well?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022 data-id=\u002218333caee9654ecc8a59c1ffd715d566\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218333caee9654ecc8a59c1ffd715d566\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Taking your guidance, Madam Chair, on wanting more questions, I will\u2014this is my first call today\u2014ask every single question that I have written down diligently and prepared for this committee stage now to the Minister of Conservation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EFirstly, though he has left on the table any answer to my question about the safeguards to protect Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua \u014Cr\u0101kei\u2019s 20-year mussel bed restoration at Okahu Bay, can he confirm that shellfish restoration projects that counter sedimentation and pollution in the Gulf that are led by wh\u0101nau and hap\u016B are not changed by these amendments? Given the removal of \u201Chap\u016B\u201D and \u201Cwh\u0101nau\u201D in his Amendment Paper\u2014which is new material\u2014I want to clarify whether they still should continue, whether there should be a downing of tools on those, or whether they need somehow to have some sort of sanction from the body that sits above them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EThe next question is whether the bill dilutes customary rights and kaitiakitanga under the Fisheries Act in favour of commercial fishing. I think he has alluded to that, so my specific question for him is: for those marae at Motairehe, Kawa Marae, and Umupuia, the wh\u0101nau there have section 168 permits actively to test and manage the shellfish beds there. That is part of a biodiversity requirement in those permits\u2014they are also customary fishing permits. What is the status of those permits now? Are those conservation objectives intended to continue under his amendments? Have commercial fishing interests been given a greater legal weight here than the environmental and cultural stewardship of hap\u016B and wh\u0101nau? Given that those hap\u016B and wh\u0101nau that are progressing some of the projects that he himself has spoken about\u2014like the shellfish restoration projects, the mussel restoration projects, the rock lobster restoration projects that he has referenced in this committee stage today\u2014are they now secondary to the commercial objectives that iwi trusts would hold, given that they hold the fisheries rights?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EWith the Department of Conservation now the lead agency, what is the position of Auckland Council to still be mandated to consult mana whenua and local hap\u016B on marine protection decisions? It is council process that they would engage with hap\u016B in some situations. It is council process that they have taken a view that, though there are 19 iwi in the T\u0101maki-makau-rau area with registered rights and interests, they have arrangements specifically to recognise interests of hap\u016B in particular areas. One of those is Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua \u014Cr\u0101kei at Okahu Bay, but there are others. Those are important parts of the way that councils around the country progress their relationships under Te Tiriti o Waitangi with hap\u016B and with wh\u0101nau. Those exist at a hap\u016B level, not an iwi level. What does his Amendment Paper mean for those councils?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EThe next question is the bill appears to weaken collective governance envisioned in the Pare Hauraki Collective Redress Deed. He has told the committee that he has engaged with Paul Majurey. What did Paul Majurey say about the way that this bill interacts with those claims of hap\u016B, which are not recognised as iwi because they will be recognised in a different way under that collective redress Act? How is it that the hap\u016B that are recognised that have Treaty settlement rights and interests that arise from that collective redress going to be ensured a seat at the council table and a seat at the biodiversity decision-making table and those arrangements in the tai timu tai whenua sea change report that Mr Majurey is an architect of? Is it clear how those hap\u016B will be engaged, or will they now have to work through a new process with what is a recognised iwi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EI think the Minister told us in our last engagement on this that all of them will be iwi. Is that now something that will then flow through to the collective redress way that those customary rights and interests act? I think that would be news to Mr Majurey because, over a long period of time, the rights and interests of hap\u016B have been treated differently to the way that iwi are recognised in these collective redress settlements, and so the Minister should make that very clear to this committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EThe next question is the bill\u2019s interaction with the marine and coastal area (MACA), and the Resource Management Act is unclear at the moment, particularly with those MACA rights under threat by this Government\u2019s advertised work programme\u2014but no legislation that we can look at here. This amendment is clearly in response to that work, but we don\u2019t have any eyes on what the intended legislative reform to the rights of hap\u016B and wh\u0101nau in MACA are. There are 44 live claims here. There are claims here that have gone back centuries, and they interact with the customary rights and interests that have, at different times, been settled in different ways. The settlement approaches that apply to the Hauraki Gulf in the mid-1990s, particularly from Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua, are very different to the ones that were settled around the 2011 to 2014 collective redress period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad45bc7d405743dc856107e718776ed2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad45bc7d405743dc856107e718776ed2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to take a call from the Hon Tama Potaka, but I will say that I heard a reasonable amount of repetition coming up, so I\u2019m going to take a call from the Minister and then I want people to be precise from here on in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022 data-id=\u0022111b9f0408b244fe85c3385132ade945\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022111b9f0408b244fe85c3385132ade945\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you for that opportunity to respond to a variety of questions, which I\u2019ll do one by one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EEspecially around the hap\u016B and wh\u0101nau and marae comment, I mentioned this last week a couple of times\u2014if the member\u2019s contention is that 100 or more hap\u016B be seated at the table with the Auckland Council or Waikato Regional Council; that\u2019s probably not what was intended by the question, but what I did say is that, for hap\u016B and marae and wh\u0101nau, their interests would be treated accordingly through the iwi. I\u2019ve said that a couple of times now, and I\u2019ll repeat again, that the work of various hap\u016B\u2014and I understand that the member might be trying to define what an iwi is; I won\u2019t have that debate again. That was done many moons ago in the fisheries litigation. The work of hap\u016B and wh\u0101nau will continue so long as it\u2019s not prohibited by the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EI expect that any mussel restoration at \u014Ckahumatamomoe down in Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua \u014Cr\u0101kei will continue accordingly\u2014that sort of monitoring won\u2019t need a permit. The removal or the introduction of mussels in a high protection area is slightly different, and that may need a permit. The status of fishing permits that exist for restoration reasons\u2014again, any activity in conflict with the prohibitions of the bill will need a permit under the bill. The provisions in new clause 19A mean that the clauses can only apply to the five fishers who meet the criteria outlined. In relation to the director-general\u2019s letter authorising ring net fishing to be specified in the legislation, it is\u2014read new clause 19A(4) and (5).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EThere was a question by one of the members opposite, who\u2019s currently not in the Whare: will any further amendments be done through primary legislation rather than regulations? No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221342e9cbf27843078b24baa2167d1b47\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022319e30b5a6ae42a488140c263737fba1\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Other than the possibility to repeal the ring net fishing provisions following the three-year review, we will not be pursuing a sunset clause; we will be pursuing a review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3e23f6e249a44ac98aa5b793007ecfb\u0022\u003ERachel Boyack\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cead9f9b8a942478412537d48478578\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order from Rachel Boyack.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022172c16bcd2cd4ca6bf94fc580943f658\u0022\u003ERachel Boyack\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair, Steve Abel was trying to make a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022370351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8f5cf3ce8304776856712feb2cbfa5a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m really sorry. I was just engaging with the Clerk for a moment. Point of order, Steve Abel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c4239411d734a42a3aaedf45276062e\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister mentioned the absence of a person from the Chamber, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce36fbbffbe141a0aeeb7f3c30c21f49\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I didn\u2019t pick up on that, but if the Minister did that, it\u2019s something that we don\u2019t allow in the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216bde65e8cab41bf9633e58b4c921acd\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair, what I referred to\u2014FYI\u2014is that someone who\u2019s not in the Chamber made a question: the question was here, and then I gave the answer. I did not refer to that person\u2019s name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e68664b22208492085e1a3799d2df744\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: That sounds fair to me, so the Minister may carry on with his answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7a0ad8d301a424fa4779815382d8da7\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair. Does the bill affect Auckland Council\u2019s processes for marine protection? No, but they may consider existing protections when making decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EJust in relation to the fulltime-equivalent (FTE)\u2014again, a question that was previously asked\u2014the FTE at the Department of Conservation has worked on the whole bill, not just the amendments. I think there was a conflation, thinking that one FTE has been working just on the amendments. It\u2019s not just new clause 19A; it\u2019s been one FTE working on the whole bill, and of course we have our expert colleagues here today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022 data-id=\u0022a10b8c84289a4cd7bdba2b9d871031fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a10b8c84289a4cd7bdba2b9d871031fd\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, very much. I\u2019m speaking to new clause 19A in Part 2 of Amendment Paper 260, \u201CRing net fishing for authorised persons in certain high protection areas\u201D\u2014specifically, understanding a couple of things. In the course of the determinations the Minister made around allowing exemptions for ring net fishing, which are outlined in new clause 19A, the high protection areas (HPAs) which are allowed to have ring net fishing in 19A(2) are Kawau Bay, Rangitoto, or Motutapu high protection areas. I wonder if the Minister can explain to us why those specific high protection areas were selected?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003ECan he explain in terms of why they\u2019d be eligible for exemptions, when the official advice stated that while the continuation of ring net fishing and HPAs may benefit some ring net fishers, it is likely their catch\u2014that usually occurs in these HPAs\u2014could be relocated elsewhere in the Gulf? It\u2019s not actually\u2014well, the question has not been answered, so I\u2019m trying to put it another way. Why did the Minister choose Kawau Bay, Rangitoto, and Motutapu high protection areas, noting that Seafood New Zealand recommended that ring net fishing is provided for in five proposed high protection areas: Kawau Bay, Motukawao Islands, Pakatoa, Tarahiki, Rangitoto, Motutapu, and The Noises?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003EThe other thing that I would like to understand from the Minister is that, in the course of the process of the decision making, whereby he moved from opposing there being the allowing of fishing in the high protection areas, and he then decided that he would allow it on 30 September: what were the conversations that were had with the Ministry for Primary Industries in his meeting with Minister Jones, himself, and the Ministry for Primary Industries on 24 September from 5 p.m. to 5.30 p.m.? What was the content of the conversation that was had about the pressure that they were under from Seafood New Zealand to allow the ring net fishing? Can the Minister please elucidate on that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003EMy third question is new clause 19A(4): \u201CThe Director-General may authorise a person to undertake ring net fishing only if\u2014(a) the person is a commercial fisher\u201D. In determining to undo the primary structure of this legislation designed to protect the Gulf with high protection areas, part of the negotiation to achieve that was with recreational fishers. And recreational fishers bought into the principle that for the good of the overall health of the fishery, that these areas should be high protection areas\u2014absolutely off limits to any kind of fishing except for customary. Now, rec fishers bought into that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003EWhy, in his determinations, did he not think that rec fishers had some right to be included in consideration if he was now going to allow commercial fishers? Matt Watson, who is a high-profile New Zealand rec fisher, is one of the fishers who\u2019s very upset about the Government\u2019s position on this. What is the Minister\u2019s response to those rec fishers who are rightly dismayed that they are expected\u2014and many of these people are your everyday common fisherman or fisherwoman who go out to catch some kai to eat for their family table, and they are not allowed to fish in these areas, but the commercial fishers are. In his considerations, why is it that he gave special preference only to those commercial fishers and he did not consider the other people who have an interest in the Gulf, including the rec fishers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022 data-id=\u002249f367093cfc4254ac75e174a024c825\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249f367093cfc4254ac75e174a024c825\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E There\u2019s been a number of comments and spurious speculation about what goes down in meetings. I didn\u2019t get any pressure from Seafood New Zealand around the nature of various amendments within the amendment bill presented. I know that there will be some members opposite that would like to throw a Hail Mary about what may or may not have happened; no, we\u2019re not in that space. The space we\u2019re in is getting this matter moving and moving forward. I won\u2019t draw on a long line of speculation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EIn relation to the rec fishers: again, it\u2019s comforting to know that members opposite actually acknowledge that there is some fishing taking place in the high protection areas, albeit exhorted off to the other side\u2014that, actually, there is fishing taking place in those high protection areas. And I\u2019ll remind members that there has been a compromise over these matters for many, many years. We have reached a space where, actually, through the democratic process\u2014it\u2019s not me that decides; it\u2019s this House that decides how we progress the amendments through to legislation. It\u2019s not me; it\u2019s this House\u2014and the parliamentary process prevails. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003ESome members opposite would ban all fishing; we won\u2019t. Some members opposite would like to see a lot less fishing between that line to H\u0101were-a-Maki out to Colville. That is the view of some members. That\u2019s not the space we\u2019re in because we acknowledge that there are recreational, customary, and other fishers who seek to continue their mahi\u2014recreational or otherwise; feeding their wh\u0101nau\u2014within the inner Gulf to Moananui-\u0101-Toi-te-Huatahi. We are very comfortable in progressing Part 2 to its logical conclusion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022 data-id=\u0022181a7137beb04cc2bd5bde3503e064a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022181a7137beb04cc2bd5bde3503e064a0\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002228c784d3cd7a44f48ec9a4525b45a1e6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u002296f30eb10169410199832f890b24df62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296f30eb10169410199832f890b24df62\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Marama Davidson\u2019s tabled amendments to Amendment Paper 260, amending paragraph (a) in clause 18(1) and deleting proposed new clause 19A, be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d009aef11eac4234b5755a5d3b1ab60f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments to the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments to the amendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e8365572e61547108010c408b097ba17\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EHon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s tabled amendment to replacing paragraph (a) in proposed new clause 19A(4), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u00222b53be4189cf4eadb90ff4847d0551aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b53be4189cf4eadb90ff4847d0551aa\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Amendment Paper 260, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c638897b209b479fb9f4fda6123c0d36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c638897b209b479fb9f4fda6123c0d36\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Lan Pham\u2019s tabled amendment to Amendment Paper 260, inserting subclause (4A) in proposed new clause 19A, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bd334c813822410188bbe0eb42b0143c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022312dc03a7e8642ad945a8d5555475b25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022312dc03a7e8642ad945a8d5555475b25\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u2019s tabled amendment to Amendment Paper 260, inserting new clause 19B, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002211ce0bcd68bc464b8c181b68c55b4536\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c141b6c2432f4899ac3f4aa91eb7ad3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c141b6c2432f4899ac3f4aa91eb7ad3a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Part 2 set out on Amendment Paper 260 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d167b03aec9a4fd18c8b76bee964cbd7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u002276f537d480c24429ac2a59cc605a16c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276f537d480c24429ac2a59cc605a16c6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 18 inserting new subclause (3) is ruled out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228ab3fd35a44d4f92ba3c363ff5093b0d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022878cbcaf718346fb808d6cfe80d1efaf\u0022\u003EPart 3  Permits, enforcement, and regulations for protected areas\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u00226e466333682d426284381ee7ce0f0794\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e466333682d426284381ee7ce0f0794\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to Part 3. Part 3 is the debate on clauses 26 to 69, \u201CPermits, enforcement, and regulations for protected areas\u201D, and Schedule 5. The question is that Part 3 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0a339863ae046d2af611211ed97b8c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0a339863ae046d2af611211ed97b8c2\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to ask a question of the Minister about Part 3, clause 67, which is around the \u201CRegulations for restrictions and conditions that apply to authorised persons undertaking ring net fishing\u201D. Madam Chair, if you will allow me, this clause is referenced in Part 2, clause 19A(5)(b), which is a section I was going to ask some questions about in Part 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc07315e8ad94bd98346e13daadfbe11\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not allowing you to go back to Part 2\u2014only as the clause relates to Part 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d60c08075184dc4a0ca2d10c592f759\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: This is as it relates, so I\u2019m asking as it relates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206cbec0b57cb4bb4966828d343b9c727\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: As long as it relates to the specific wording in Part 3, I will allow it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022216d95c3264344b4a5b2c868d91eeab7\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: That is exactly what I\u2019m doing, Madam Chair. In clause 67, it says, \u201CThe Governor-General may, by Order in Council made on the recommendation of the Minister and the Minister responsible for administration of the Fisheries Act 1996, make regulations that prescribe restrictions and conditions that apply to an authorised person undertaking ring net fishing in accordance with section 19A.\u201D It refers back to clause 19A.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve got a question to start with, and I\u2019ll probably have to come back because there\u2019s a number of questions in this clause, around that \u201Cauthorised person\u201D. What happened during scrutiny week when the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries appeared before the Environment Committee, he advised the select committee that there would be three authorised people who were going to be allowed to undertake ring net fishing in the high protection areas as he said that they would be named in the legislation. My question to the Minister today is: this is specifically talking about an authorised person; who are these authorised people? Why has the Minister chosen to go against what the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries advised the select committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m not suggesting either way which way is a better option. I think that it\u2019s actually unusual to name parties in legislation\u2014unless you\u2019re the Government and you\u2019re naming fast-track projects. It\u2019s unusual to do that. However, the reason I\u2019m asking this question is that the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries did actually state that those authorised people would be named in the legislation. My question to the Minister is: why have they not been? How many authorised people will there be, is my next question. There have been various numbers thrown around, and I understand the kind of common number of people that\u2019s thrown around is three\u2014three\u2014people who will be authorised. Again, this doesn\u2019t stipulate the number of authorised people. Will there be three? Will there be six? Will there be 10? And what parameters will be put in place to ensure that it can\u2019t continue to expand, is my other question to the Minister. There is concern about the sheer number of people who may be able to access this exemption and be granted an exemption and be considered an authorised person. I will come back. I\u2019ve got more questions for the Minister, but that\u2019s my first one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022 data-id=\u0022bbd5cb147318488eb920d8cd6fb94651\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bbd5cb147318488eb920d8cd6fb94651\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll repeat the answer that I gave earlier: these fishers will not be named. It\u2019s not the current intent of either myself or the Minister of fisheries to name those people. As I\u2019ve mentioned before\u2014and the member may not have been in the Chamber\u2014there have been some concerns around the abuse and violence levelled towards various fishers across this space. Those fishers who will be eligible to go ring net fishing are set out in clause 19(1)(a). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022 data-id=\u00225128783419dd4c0c897defb09590d66a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225128783419dd4c0c897defb09590d66a\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. My questions are directly relating to Part 3, subpart 1, and clauses 27 and 28, so both around \u201CApplication for permit\u201D and \u201CDirector-General may seek further information\u201D. Now I\u2019m wondering and really keen to hear very clearly from the Minister about what was\u2014or is there\u2014a due diligence process when it comes to permits or exemptions under this bill. Now, I\u2019m asking that because it\u2019s not quite clear from the information what the scope is of what the director-general could ask for, because it\u2019s extremely broad. Is that the intent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022\u003ESecondly, does any company or individual with permits or exemptions under this bill have any record of poor compliance records or Fisheries Act prosecutions? I think it would be really comforting for the public, particularly all those who are really concerned about the ring net exemptions, if the Minister could confirm that there has been due diligence that has been applied to this bill as a whole, but particularly as pertains to permits and exemptions under the bill, which are in these clauses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022\u003EI think, as well, what would be really good to know is: if it did emerge that there were any poor compliance records or even prosecutions that have been made against individuals or companies that are given these permits or exemptions through this bill, what that would mean in terms of if they do have existing permits or exemptions? Would the Minister actually take action in response to those, to ensure that the community can trust that there are, essentially, actors doing the business and not acting in bad faith when it comes to permits or exemptions under the bill? I\u2019d really like to hear a response from the Minister on those things. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d9b529755d2b4a78a373977edaec4209\u0022 data-id=\u00220eee16794dd64715b46cfad16b214b53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d9b529755d2b4a78a373977edaec4209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220eee16794dd64715b46cfad16b214b53\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koe, Madam Chair, otir\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koe e te Minita. T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. E t\u016B ana ahau ki te waha i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero m\u0101 Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i te rangi nei, waihoki \u0113tehi o ng\u0101 mana whenua o Hauraki.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d9b529755d2b4a78a373977edaec4209\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Madam Chair; indeed, thank you, Minister. Greetings to us in the House. I stand to convey the statements on behalf of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori today, and furthermore some of the iwi territorial authorities of Hauraki.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d9b529755d2b4a78a373977edaec4209\u0022\u003EI also represent the M\u0101ori electorate seat of Hauraki-Waikato. That geographically covers the whole Hauraki and the whole of Waikato from Papakura all the way down to Te Awamutu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d9b529755d2b4a78a373977edaec4209\u0022\u003EI just will be referring to some of the amendments and asking questions that I have made on Part\u00A03, clause 28 and clause 29. Some of my tabled amendments today are around clause 28 and clause 28(1): replace \u201Cthe Director-General may\u201D with \u201Cthe Director-General must\u201D. In clause 28(1)(b), after \u201Cconsult\u201D, insert \u201Crelevant mana whenua, including\u201D. Then, in clause 29(d), after \u201Cactivity\u201D, insert \u201Cthrough engagement with relevant mana whenua\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d9b529755d2b4a78a373977edaec4209\u0022\u003EThese amendments ensure that there is a mandatory consultation process and when, giving permits, this process must consult with mana whenua, because I know for a fact that when wh\u0101nau go for a dive or are fishing together for kaimoana or kai for kaupapa or tangihanga, they will be the ones that will be criminalised and fined rather than the big corporate commercial fishing companies who exploit our taonga and kai. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d9b529755d2b4a78a373977edaec4209\u0022\u003EThese amendments are designed to ensure mana whenua have input into these applications for permits to undergo fishing and diving throughout the moana. These amendments follow on from points raised in submissions by a number of Hauraki iwi and also consider critical feedback on the bill by Te Ohu Kaimoana. Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori opposes this bill, in line with concerns raised\u2014for example, Hauraki M\u0101ori Trust Board and Te Ohu Kaimoana. These amendments proposed in response to the need to ensure that new breaches of Te Tiriti o Waitangi occur for Hauraki iwi towards a sustainable management of the moana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d9b529755d2b4a78a373977edaec4209\u0022\u003EI do have quite a long set of questions that I want to ask the Minister as well, on mana whenua involvement. They all relate to clause 29 and clause 28 in Part 3. On mana whenua involvement, how does this bill, in its current form, ensure that mana whenua have genuine input into decisions about activities in the moana? Why should mana whenua not be explicitly named as groups the director-general must consult with, rather than leaving it to discretion? What safeguards exist in the current bill to protect whakapapa relationships with the moana? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d9b529755d2b4a78a373977edaec4209\u0022\u003EOn decision-making powers, why is the director-general only permitted rather than required to seek further information and consult mana whenua before granting permits? Should such significant powers be exercised without mandatory engagement with those who hold kaitiakitanga? On Te Tiriti o Waitangi, what steps have been taken to ensure that no new breaches of Te Tiriti o Waitangi will occur under this bill? Given the concerns raised by Hauraki iwi and Te Ohu Kaimoana, how can the Crown justify proceeding without stronger Tiriti-based protections? How does this bill recognise the rights and responsibilities of mana whenua, as granted under Te Tiriti? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d9b529755d2b4a78a373977edaec4209\u0022\u003EOn proposed amendments, why would Parliament resist changing the wording from \u201Cmay\u201D to \u201Cmust\u201D in clauses that deal with consultation and information gathering? How does inserting \u201Crelevant mana whenua\u201D into clause 28(1)(b) strengthen decision making? Why is engagement with mana whenua not already required when considering biodiversity impacts and other effects under clause 29? On accountability and sustainability, with the last 30 seconds: what mechanisms in the bill ensure accountability to iwi and hap\u016B, who will most be affected by these decisions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d9b529755d2b4a78a373977edaec4209\u0022\u003EWithout these amendments, how can Parliament guarantee sustainable management of the moana that is consistent with tikanga and kaitiakitanga? The last question for the Minister: do current provisions go far enough to balance Crown authority with iwi rights and responsibilities? T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022 data-id=\u002247cd1f0fc843432fb60192bc4572564c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247cd1f0fc843432fb60192bc4572564c\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I, too, have some questions specific to clause 27 in Subpart 1 of Part 3, particularly to clause 27(2)(c), and that is around \u201Cthe anticipated effects of the proposed activity\u201D. Subpart 1, clause 27, around the \u201CApplication for permit\u201D, lays out the process by which a person applies to the director-general for a permit to be authorised to undertake the prohibited activity within the protected area, and subclause (2) sets out what the application needs to include.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003EMy question is around whether the director-general would be required to look at the impacts around bycatch. I specifically raise this because conservationists have said in the public domain that ring netting is also indiscriminate when it comes to a form of fishing; that while it targets small bait fish\u2014which in itself is an issue, because species like snapper rely on the small bait fish, so that\u2019s a separate issue\u2014but that there is bycatch. Other species, like sea birds, rays, and other fish species, are often ensnared in these large nets and killed. The purpose, again, of the high protection area is to protect the biodiversity within it, so my question to the Minister is whether he would consider a change to require the director-general to look at the anticipated effects that include the bycatch in those areas\u2014anticipated bycatch\u2014before a permit can be granted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003EMy second question is to do with clause 28(1)(c), which allows the director-general to commission any report that the director-general considers appropriate when deciding whether to grant the permit or not. Again, I would like to ask the Minister, firstly, what reports he would anticipate a director-general would require or commission, and whether he would move to or consider an amendment that would require the director-general to commission a report to look at the impact on biodiversity objectives, including anticipated bycatch in that area?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003EMy third question to the Minister is on clause 28(2). This is the subclause where \u201CThe applicant must pay the costs associated with the Director-General\u2019s inquiries under this section in the manner provided in the regulations.\u201D That has been deleted, and I would like to ask the Minister why that has been removed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003EI do have a few more questions, but those relate to parts that are further on, so I will stop here and hope the Minister answers these questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022 data-id=\u00225455e4e583f24a39903a1b4297def779\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225455e4e583f24a39903a1b4297def779\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Following on from my colleague, I\u2019m also asking questions about subpart 1, regarding permits. For context, in clause 27(1), \u201CA person may apply to the Director-General for a permit authorising the person to undertake a prohibited activity within a protected area.\u201D To understand what those are, we need to go back to Part 2. Those prohibited activities are: \u201Cset netting\u201D, \u201Cpotting that occurs within Area A on Survey Office Plan [etc., etc.] shown as the area with diagonal lines\u201D, and \u201Cbottom longlining that occurs within Area A \u2026\u201D\u2014so, set netting, potting, and longlining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003ENow, if we go further down Subpart 1, we find \u201CDecision of Director-General\u201D, on page 22, clause 30: \u201C[The Director-General] After considering an application for a permit and any further information \u2026 may grant the permit, if satisfied that \u2026\u201D\u2014among other things in clause 30(1)(b)\u2014\u201Cthe activity is necessary;\u201D. I want to prosecute the word \u201Cnecessary\u201D, Minister. Whenever do you envisage that it will be necessary to permit set netting, potting, and bottom longlining in a high protected area? What is the definition that you will use to evaluate that it is necessary to do those things? It completely contradicts, surely, the purpose of the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003EMy question is: what are the things that you would deem as rendering it necessary to allow not only ring net fishing in these areas but also set netting, potting, and bottom longlining?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022895b7220a9b945ceab1c771bc77cc8a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022895b7220a9b945ceab1c771bc77cc8a5\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. There are a few questions from me on Part 3. One is the continuation of a discussion we were having in Part 2 around the grandparenting of the ring-netting\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7138d70576e4ec8aa4c72d916e82283\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: But a new point relating to a clause in Part 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b4b63c75d704f62bd36cf7371c7a17d\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ab1fcb72e5a4f059a0dcfda2baffddf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: OK, thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c82953369448442ebc0ea561b6a81532\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: But it is related, because the bill is just one bill\u2014it\u2019s very definitely a new point. The Minister said that the director-general would write to them, but I\u2019m wondering if he would also consider, in clause 34\u2014so on pages 24 and 25 of his Amendment Paper 260\u2014adding a new paragraph (c) to say \u201Cand the permit holder is not authorised under section 19A\u201D to make it clear that those new clause 19A authorisations cannot be transferred under what will become section 34. So that\u2019s one question, if he\u2019d consider that. That, I think, would be clearer than his answer, which is on the Hansard\u2014which I appreciate\u2014that the director-general would write a letter about that issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003ENow, moving on then to offences, at what will be new section 41, \u201COffence to undertake prohibited activity within protected area\u201D, the punishment has changed quite dramatically here. It was \u201Ca fine not exceeding $100,000:\u201D, and now there\u2019s an option of still having that fine, or \u201Ca sentence of community work.\u201D, and, of course, the sentence of community work seems quite different than a fine of $100,000. So I was wondering if the Minister could comment on why that change has been made. Those are two questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EMoving on now into regulations, and these start at page 36, there\u2019s a general regulatory power that hasn\u2019t changed at clause 65, but then there are some changes at clause 66, which is \u201CRegulations for biodiversity objectives and associated restrictions\u201D. The one that I\u2019m particularly interested in, and it relates back to questions I\u2019ve had on both Part 1 and Part 2, but this is specifically on Part 3, is at clause 66(2). There\u2019s been a change so that the Minister must be \u201Csatisfied that\u201D, and there\u2019s a deletion of paragraph (a), which is the requirement that the Minister has to consult with the Minister for fisheries. Why I\u2019m interested in this is that the Minister hasn\u2019t clearly answered my other questions about whether or not this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e626329a9cf4f4e9c13377cc242c72b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Could you just repeat the last piece of what you said you were specifically referring to, as the Minister is just looking\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227efb420c11ac4da3958d572d03739dea\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I\u2019m on page 37 of the Amendment Paper, and there was a requirement at clause 66(2)(a) that the Minister for fisheries be consulted, but that has been deleted on the Amendment Paper and I\u2019m asking why it\u2019s been deleted. Is that because with the other changes in the definitions of who the Minister is, the Minister administrating this Act can now be the Minister of fisheries, and is it, in fact, the intent that the Minister administrating this Act is the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries and not the Minister for Conservation? Is that the reason for paragraph (a) being deleted, because if it is the changes in Part 1 and Part 2 that enable the Prime Minister to decide who the Minister in charge of this piece of legislation is\u2014if that enables it to be either the Minister of Conservation, the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries, or some other Minister, then shouldn\u2019t there be a requirement for whoever that Minister is to consult with the other one? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003ESo if the Minister in charge of this legislation is the conservation Minister, then they must consult with the oceans and fisheries Minister. But if this bill now enables the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries to be the Minister in charge of this bill, shouldn\u2019t there be a requirement, then, for that Minister to consult the Minister of Conservation? That is my question on that regulation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve got some more questions. But I see that the Minister is eager to answer, so I will defer to him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022 data-id=\u00228f34fe4f0bf74fcda3787dcd573392be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f34fe4f0bf74fcda3787dcd573392be\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you for this chance to respond to various questions. In relation to clause 27, the information required will be provided on the Department of Conservation (DOC) website. It is an operational matter, but the form of the application or the materials that will be needed will be set out on the DOC website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EIn relation to whether or not the director-general is required to consider bycatch impacts, no, not for issuing an authorisation for ring net fishing, but they will be considered at the three-yearly review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EThe types of reports the director-general might consider when considering a permanent application, that\u2019s on a case by case basis that is relevant to that application. It\u2019s not required by the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003ECost recovery: why was that deleted? It was deemed not necessary, as the ability to cost recover on the bill is actually set out in the Conservation Act 1987. There are a number of questions in regard to safeguards around Te Tiriti o Waitangi and various kaitiakitanga aspirations. There have been changes made into the Act that\u2019s set out in clause 4(2) around signposting and signalling how we would like to see Te Tiriti o Waitangi responsibilities\u2014Treaty of Waitangi responsibilities\u2014carried out, and you\u2019ll see them well articulated both in clauses 4, 5A, and 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EYes, iwi\u2014oh, sorry, a comment on Te Ohu Kaimoana. The advice I\u2019ve received is generally that Te Ohu Kaimoana is comfortable with the direction of travel. Of course, they\u2019ve written or communicated with officials and others around their expectations going forward, and many of those expectations, I understand, have been met. There is a significant commitment, within the coalition Government and within this bill, to uphold Te Tiriti settlements. That\u2019s in clause 8A. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EThe information the Director-General of Conservation can ask for when considering a permanent application in relation to ring net fishers is all set out in clause 19A. How many authorised ring net fishers will there be, and will this number grow in the future? For the 16th time around these discussions, we\u2019ve said it\u2019s up to five, because that\u2019s the number that have the fisheries number now, and that\u2019s set out in clause 19A.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266a8bd9612034c67bc23854568264e28\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c61260400d854c56a8a04b23aa925570\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: No, the fishers that are able to apply are set out in clause 19A.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003ENow, you want to know the number and the identity. I\u2019ve said four times today that we will not be giving that to you. We will not be announcing that. Of course, there are privacy issues that are attached to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EIn relation to clause 41, there is optionality given that it\u2019s a strict liability arrangement, so the amendment enables a little bit more granularity of response in the enforcement process, particularly given the strict liability arrangements therein.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of other questions that were asked. The expectation around consulting with mana moana or mana whenua: I think that the practice of the decision maker, in that regard, will be influenced heavily by the references to Te Tiriti o Waitangi / the Treaty of Waitangi in both this proposed legislation and also the Conservation Act 1987.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022 data-id=\u0022d91dcf55e5124a129042f5e92b00ece7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d91dcf55e5124a129042f5e92b00ece7\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a quick clarification on what the Minister just said in his response around clause 28(2), which is the removal of the cost recovery requirement. So is the Minister saying that the taxpayer now has to pay for individuals to get a permit to fish in a high protection area? I think that is quite unfair, but I just want clarification around that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003EMy second question is to do with clause 32, which lays out the revocation of permit or amendment to permit conditions due to adverse effects and other grounds. This clause lays out the grounds under which the director-general may revoke a permit at any time if certain conditions are not met. So clause 32(a) states that the director-general can revoke a permit if it\u2019s \u201Ccausing adverse effects to the protected area that are greater than those anticipated at the time the permit was granted\u201D. That relates to my previous question around the anticipated effects of the proposed activity and whether that will include a projection on the bycatch that will be caught in the method of fishing that is allowed now in these two high protection areas (HPAs).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003EMy second question around that, though, is how would the director-general monitor this, because the review period for the specific permit regime is, from what the Minister said previously\u2014I can\u2019t find the clause in here, but from what the Minister said, it\u2019s three years. So if there are specific changes that contribute to a further degradation of those two HPAs within that three-year period, and before the review takes place, how will the director-general be able to determine this in order to be able to then revoke a permit based on those adverse effects?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003EThat actually also relates to clause 32(b), which states that it could be revoked if it\u2019s inconsistent with the biodiversity objectives for the protected area in a manner that wasn\u2019t anticipated. So, same question there: will bycatch be involved in that determination as well, and if so, how will the director-general be able to reasonably determine that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003EMy next question is around clause 41, which is under \u201COffences\u201D, and I note that clause 41(3)(b) is new. That is around the sentence of community work: a person who commits an offence referred to in subsection (1) or subsection (2) is liable on conviction to just a fine not exceeding $100,000, but it could be either a fine or a sentence of community work. That seems to be a weakening of that particular offence protection, and so I\u2019d like the Minister to answer why that is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022 data-id=\u002206b2d794b3294ba3badcf726ad1d0034\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206b2d794b3294ba3badcf726ad1d0034\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I responded to the question around the offences before and the fines or alternatively a community-based sentence, and it was omitted by mistake. I understand it was already approved by Cabinet. However, a strict liability offence providing optionality for responding to that is a very good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EThere was a question around whether or not the Minister of Conservation would need to consult with the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries. The Minister of Conservation is the Minister responsible for this bill, and this drafting aligns with the Legislation Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EAmendments to ensure permits can\u2019t be transferred: the ring net fishing provision is set out in Part 2. Clause 34 would not allow for a ring net fishing provision to be transferred. The director-general authorises it. It\u2019s under a different regime in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EIn response to members\u2019 questions about what might be considered necessary in a high protection area (HPA), there could be research, there could be restoration activities and a number of things that may be necessary in an HPA that is enabled through that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EIn terms of cost recovery and taxpayers, no, there\u2019s no cost to the taxpayer for ring net fishing authorisations. They are not permits under Part 3 of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022 data-id=\u0022754b92c71a824eb886f92bc43a5ef0ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022754b92c71a824eb886f92bc43a5ef0ca\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I just want to come back to clause 67 because I have some further questions for the Minister of Conservation on a different section of this clause. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to start with clause 67(2)(a)(ii)\u2014I love reading this legislation when my eyes are starting to get a little bit older. It states here that the regulations made under subsection (1) \u201Cmust provide for \u2026 restrictions relating to the species of fish that an authorised person may target, which may be all or any of the following species only: (A) kahawai: (B) grey mullet: (C) trevally\u201D. I have an amendment to this clause, and this is a really good reason why it\u2019s frustrating to have amendments like this come through the committee stage and not at select committee\u2014because we can dig in with the Parliamentary Counsel Office (PCO) at select committee around whether the actual wording in the clause will reach its intention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003EMy amendment would be to change in the second sentence the part that says, \u201Cwhich may be all\u201D to \u201Cwhich must be all\u201D. My concern is that when it says \u201Cwhich may be all or any of the following\u201D, could that actually be interpreted to allow for other species of fish to be fished as a fishing activity by those who have been authorised to undertake ring net fishing in one of these two high protection areas? My first question to the Minister is: would he consider supporting my amendment? I\u2019d love it if he could talk to PCO around whether that wording is actually tight enough to achieve the intent, which I believe is that only those three species can be targeted. The use of the word \u201Cmust\u201D would be a very minor amendment and would actually strengthen it and it would ensure that only those three fish can be targeted with that permitted fishing activity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003EMy second question is also related to clause 67(2)(b), which says that, again, the regulations made under subsection (1) \u201Cmay provide for any other restrictions or conditions that apply to an authorised person undertaking ring net fishing that the Ministers consider necessary.\u201D My question for the Minister is: can he give some examples of what those other restrictions or conditions could be? Has he received advice on what they would be? How would they be enacted? Would it be through secondary legislation, through regulation? It\u2019s quite a broad clause. Again, I just note that this is why we get frustrated when large amendments that are quite substantial get dropped in the committee stage. They could even actually go back to select committee just for a week to allow those of us on this side of the House who haven\u2019t had the opportunity to ask PCO what the intent behind that particular part of the clause is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003EThose are my two questions to the Minister. Would he consider my amendment, because I think it would strengthen it, would give that certainty that it\u2019s only those three species that can be fished? Secondly, can he give us some more detail around the intent and the advice he\u2019s received under clause 67(2)(b) and how those restrictions or conditions could be applied? Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022 data-id=\u00227a22358cd19849198346e20bebb2de47\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a22358cd19849198346e20bebb2de47\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I want to pick up specifically on quite a substantial part of the bill, which is on page 40, and it\u2019s new clause 68A, which involves \u201CMinisterial review of ring net fishing provisions\u201D. I\u2019m wanting to pick up on this particularly, because there actually is a way within this provision to offer all of those people out there, particularly the communities around T\u012Bkapa Moana, the Hauraki Gulf, some form of assurance and transparency as part of this process. What this specific clause outlines is that the Minister and the Minister actually responsible for the administration of the Fisheries Act 1996 must actually initiate a review of the operations of this ring net fishing, which are contained in this amendment, before the expiry of three years from the commencement of this Act. Now, what I would propose to the Minister is to seriously consider changing that to one year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022\u003EThe reason why I think he should do that is because of all of the concern that\u2019s been going on with the communities and the fact that, as he\u2019s reiterated, he\u2019s had different advice from officials that no longer says that these protections would undermine the purpose of the Act, that apparently the advice now says that these ring net fishing exemptions might have minimal impact on biodiversity. We\u2019re really keen to see that, and we haven\u2019t actually heard the Minister address directly whether he will share that information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022\u003EOne way he could do that is by actually initiating this review earlier. The key part about it is it actually looks at those costs and benefits of the ring net fishing provisions. Particularly with that $14,000 in revenue that we\u2019ve heard in the media and talked about in the committee of the whole stage, if there is counter evidence, then we would like to be able to see that really weighed up in an actually sound, considered way so that the public and all of those people who have been involved in this process for so many years actually have transparency about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022\u003EThe critical part of it, as well, is that it allows, in this ministerial review, those Ministers to then recommend, in response to that, whether these ring net fishing provisions should actually be retained, should they be amended, or should they even be repealed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223ea45eb01ba147e29aceca2c23647291\u0022\u003EThe Minister has been really clear all along that this has been a number of compromises that he\u2019s had to make. Presumably he wants to be open and transparent with the public about the actual advice and evidence he\u2019s been given to make these compromises. Would he consider changing the review timetable within this clause to earlier? I would really like to hear the Minister\u2019s response to that. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022 data-id=\u002250cde6bd848e4ae3b2c087d652f61ad5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250cde6bd848e4ae3b2c087d652f61ad5\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. Thank you, Mr Chair. We\u2019re very confident that a review take place\u2014in answer to an earlier question around a sunset clause, that\u2019s not the position. We will be undertaking a review, and we welcome that as a pragmatic way to get on with the mahi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EIn relation to clause 67(2), the proposed amendment will require that all three species should be targeted, whereas the earlier drafting meant it could be limited to one or two of the species. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EHow will any adverse effects to high protection areas from ring net fishing be addressed before the three-year review? There\u2019ll be enforcement and monitoring of the protections provided by the bill. This includes the high protection areas where the ring net provision is provided for. It takes time for these effects to be clear, and reviewing after three years, informed by monitoring, will help that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003ERestrictions or conditions that could be for ring net fishers\u2014well, those are well set up: one vessel at a time, it must be less than six metres, and stay within the vicinity of the net while fishing. Unlike some of the reports with trawlers splayed all over photos, that\u2019s not what it is. It\u2019s just diversionary malarkey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EIn regards to considering reducing the three-year review period to one year, well, we\u2019ve got to take time to review the activities and the protection, and it\u2019s appropriate that it takes place after three years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022 data-id=\u00220a4602a53e4d4a13b4faab51dc7612d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a4602a53e4d4a13b4faab51dc7612d2\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I thank the Minister for answering some questions on this part. I note that I haven\u2019t heard any comment on my suggestion that the transfer clause could be amended to exclude clause 19A. That\u2019s excluding specifically making it clear, in the transfer clause, that the ring net fishing exemption can\u2019t be transferred. I also heard, in the Minister\u2019s responses, that the Minister of Conservation is in charge of this bill. But, back in Part 1, the definition of \u201CMinister\u201D has changed so that it can be whoever the Prime Minister gives the delegation to. Regardless, even if the Minister is right and if he could explain why, then, there\u2019s that change in definition, that would be useful. But why would you not want the Minister of Conservation to consult the Minister for fisheries and vice versa? If the Minister of fisheries has, in fact, got the delegation for this Act, surely you would want the Minister of fisheries to consult the Minister of Conservation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EMoving on, I\u2019m interested in replacement clause 67 in the Minister\u2019s Amendment Paper. This has been deleted, and it\u2019s been replaced with another clause, but it just relates, as the Minister\u2019s discussed, to ring net fishing, which is quite different, so it\u2019s been replaced by something quite different. Clause 67, which has been deleted, allowed for regulations that looked at additional management and was related to the biodiversity objectives. We had some discussion in Part 2 about the biodiversity objectives, and the Minister named a whole lot of people in the Chamber, and I asked and didn\u2019t get an answer, but it\u2019s relevant to this part as well: was the long list of people that he named all endorsing these changes to the biodiversity objectives? That\u2019s relevant to clause 67 as well. Or are they just good people who do good things in this area? These are two quite different things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EThen he might want to comment as well, going further through to 67, which my colleague Rachel Boyack was just talking about. That also requires that those regulations must provide for the period of time\u2014and there\u2019s a season there, being 1 March and ending on 31 August. Is there anything particular to that, or is it standard practice, the season there? You might want to comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EThen going further, we had some questions from Lan Pham on clause 68A of the Minister\u2019s Amendment Paper, but I\u2019m quite interested in 68B. This is an Order in Council repealing the ring net fishing provisions, and it does seem to be a \u201CKing Henry VIII\u201D clause. What that means is that a regulation\u2014so not the statute\u2014suddenly can be made that amends the statute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226740a6d1a499424ea83f8438164660b1\u0022\u003EHon Simon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: This was discussed at select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ee002d42589457faf02b0a7fa2fe9d3\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m hearing that it\u2019s been\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3c6c70239bd454e990be2313479a297\u0022\u003ERachel Boyack\u003C/span\u003E: It didn\u2019t go to select committee. That\u2019s the point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3b2060844644478a6f77717053012f8\u0022\u003EHon Simon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s filibustering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f08f23c649284f15b7617b8d7013d5bf\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m now being accused of filibustering, and they\u2019re saying that it went to select committee. Of course, I\u2019m looking at the underlined things that are in the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e40c514c7174b8a889e54ba7812ca51\u0022\u003EHon Simon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: The member knows it. She wrote the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d138c72d61d45c5b96eafd78f5b6ce4\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m looking at the Amendment Paper rather than the bill as reported back from the select committee. That is the difference. Thank you to the member opposite there for proclaiming that I wrote the bill. Whilst I certainly had some involvement in the progress of this bill and the introduction of this bill when I was the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries, I cannot claim to have written it. It has, of course, been the work of many people over, as we know, at least a decade. Well done to all of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285681173ba6643bb8534100b5c6f383d\u0022\u003EHon Simon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: Here we go. You used to support it. How things change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d023f74b757d4736a3f12a57a2375990\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m now being told that we should support it, and, of course, we are supporting the bill, but the bill has been amended, and it\u2019s been amended for these ring net fishers but also around these biodiversity objectives as well, so I\u2019m wanting some clarity on whether the people who the Minister named before are supporting those changes to the biodiversity objectives. Are they supporting the changes to the ring net fishing, or do they have the position that I have, which is that we want this bill to pass. It is a good bill, but the Minister has made some bad changes which have delayed this whole process by over a year. Could he answer my questions, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022 data-id=\u00229ce81fff5e6740fa8ba7ac1d999a1ee1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ce81fff5e6740fa8ba7ac1d999a1ee1\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E As I mentioned earlier, and as I\u2019m sure members will be aware, iwi leaders are quite accustomed to various compromises in legislative and regulatory processes. Iwi leaders that I\u2019ve engaged with are absolutely opposing more regulatory bureaucratic noise coming in over the top of customary fishing. They do not want more regulation from the K\u0101wanatanga over and above the tikanga practices of going out to gather kai. That\u2019s why we are retaining the location of customary fishing alongside the Fisheries Act rather than keeping more regulatory noise on top of customary fishing by way of this Act. It\u2019s not necessary for clause 34 to say that ring net fishing cannot be transferred, as ring net fishing is not a permit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EI\u2019m happy to note that, in relation to clause 68B, there may be an option in time for the Governor-General to pass that Order in Council made on our recommendations to discontinue ring net fishing, and that may happen. Let\u2019s wait and see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0ca96ab6ded426e80d1fc8bfc77a3f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0ca96ab6ded426e80d1fc8bfc77a3f9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I might just note that interjections from one side or the other normally don\u2019t introduce new material, but when they\u2019re done in a very loud and informed voice it may well be that they are actually adding new material that might prolong the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa3804c5bbb1465daa51a44a7b0beb1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa3804c5bbb1465daa51a44a7b0beb1b\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. We have appreciated having the Minister of Climate Change here chirping away. Last time we saw him in the Chamber, he was reading out a bill to bring back oil and gas exploration. It is funny that it\u2019s the Minister of Climate Change who is complaining about us forgetting what the environment is\u2014but, anyway, it\u2019s nice to have you here, Minister, and thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003EI have two very quick points, actually, to make. My first one, before I get to the substantive one at new clause 68A, is to clarify my question, which was not answered by the Minister. The Minister answered as to when permits would be issued and said that the purpose of those permits could be scientific experimentation, for example. All well and good; no one\u2019s going to have an issue with that, I can imagine, so long as it\u2019s done in a way that remediates and doesn\u2019t harm. My specific question was that, in that clause 27(1), there is permission for permits to be issued to undertake prohibited activities in a high protection area, and those prohibited activities are listed at clause 15(1A): set netting, potting, and bottom longlining. My question was: under what circumstances would it ever be deemed necessary to permit set netting, potting, and longlining in a high protected area? That was the specific question. I wasn\u2019t asking about research permitting; I was asking when it would ever be necessary\u2014the word \u201Cnecessary\u201D coming from Part 3, on page 22. That\u2019s my clarification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003ENow, to new clause 68A, on page 40, Mr Chair and Minister, subclause (5): \u201CThe Ministers must ensure that, as part of the review, there is reasonable opportunity for interested persons (including Te Ohu Kai Moana) to make submissions on the operation of the ring net fishing provisions.\u201D Why, Minister, is Te Ohu Kaimoana explicitly singled out, and is there any relationship between the naming of Te Ohu Kaimoana and the fact that, on 26 September, there was a meeting between Minister Jones and Te Ohu Kaimoana that preceded your decision to change this legislation to allow ring net fishing, which you did three days later on 30 September?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003EIs there a relationship between that meeting between Minister Jones and Te Ohu Kaimoana and the Minister\u2019s decision to change to permit ring net fishing in the high protected area and now the Minister\u2019s specific setting out of the requirement that if there is any review of ring net fishing, it must include consultation with Te Ohu Kaimoana? Why are they explicitly named, Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2ea4b2cf84f4665a931527552c05fa5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2ea4b2cf84f4665a931527552c05fa5\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve got two specific questions for the Minister, and they relate to new clause 68A(3)(a)(i) and (ii)\u2014those are the specific clauses and subclauses that I\u2019m looking at. That\u2019s, basically, around the ministerial review of the ring net fishing provisions. This particular clause lays out the detail with regard to that review. With subclause (3), it basically says that the review must assess \u201Cthe costs and benefits of the ring net fishing provisions and, to the extent practicable, the fishing undertaken in reliance on those provisions; and\u201D\u2014 secondary to that\u2014\u201Cthe effect of the ring net fishing provisions on the relevant high protection areas and any biodiversity objectives for those areas;\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003EMy question to the Minister is: why is there the hierarchy of those two specific aspects that the review needs to assess, and whether, as the Minister of Conservation, he is comfortable with the fact that the effect on the biodiversity objectives\u2014which, I would have thought, should be the principal focus of the review\u2014is subsidiary or secondary to the cost-benefit analysis? Can he explain the thinking behind that, the rationale for that, and whether, as conservation Minister, he is comfortable with the focus on conservation coming secondary to the cost-benefit analysis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003EThe second question that I have for the Minister is around new clause 68A(3)(b)(ii), which is what happens if the Minister is not satisfied with the review and the recommendations that could be the outcome of that. Now, I understand paragraphs (i) and (iii), where the recommendation could be either that the ring net fishing provisions are \u201Cretained\u201D or they are \u201Crepealed\u201D; I don\u2019t understand the second paragraph, in terms of it being \u201Camended\u201D. I ask the Minister to clarify what the options are that he foresees with regard to new clause 68A(3)(b)(ii). In what circumstances does he think that the ring net fishing provisions could be amended, given the outcomes of the review? What are the options for the amendment therein, and, I guess, what does he anticipate would come out of this particular subclause?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022 data-id=\u002285561f27b55046ed86c96b84da5c6b02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285561f27b55046ed86c96b84da5c6b02\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E In response to why Te Ohu Kaimoana were specified for consultation for a ring net fishing review, Te Ohu Kaimoana were specified for consultation for when it\u2019s in doubt. But the clause provides that all interested parties must be given an opportunity to submit, and we on this side think it\u2019s appropriate for a peak M\u0101ori fisheries body who\u2019s responsible for the advocacy of M\u0101ori fishing to be engaged in that review. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EThe fishing season specified in the bill\u2014what is it based on, and is it standard? From 1 March to 31 August is the standard ring net fishing season, and the bill will ensure that that fishing does not occur outside of that timetable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EUnder what circumstances might potting, bottom longlining, or set-netting be necessary in a high protection area? I don\u2019t anticipate there being a reason to permit. However, the legislation provides for this to be considered on a case by case basis. The restrictions in the bill would ensure that this couldn\u2019t be for commercial purposes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EIn relation to the amendment to clause 68A(3)(b)(ii), there might be a range of reasons to amend\u2014for example, the months of the season might be reconsidered in due course. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022 data-id=\u0022110c307367ab4ec39e3eb44329da37b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022110c307367ab4ec39e3eb44329da37b0\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022463e085bab91484ab54938f7db4a2c5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022463e085bab91484ab54938f7db4a2c5d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not hearing a lot of new stuff coming. But Rachel Boyack is nodding away like she might have found some new\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022 data-id=\u0022607326bb06e1460db51cdcb6c6b7faac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022607326bb06e1460db51cdcb6c6b7faac\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, Mr Chair, I do have something quite specific, because the Minister responded to my question about a tabled amendment earlier, but, actually, in his response I believe he referenced the wrong use of the word \u201Cmay\u201D in the clause. So I wanted to clarify this because in that particular clause, the word \u201Cmay\u201D is referenced twice, and I think he was referring to the first use of it and not the second. The amendment has been tabled on the Table\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275ed01faabb54f008d480f3ffd80f8b1\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: New material. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7510552efd64781a932421e5d7789b7\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014so I\u2019m going to read it out in context, and I do note there\u2019s a bit of chat on the other side. This is a really genuine question to actually strengthen the protections in this bill, and that is what we do at select committee. So I\u2019m just going to read what my amendment would actually change it to. Clause 67(2) would say, \u201CRegulations made under subsection (1)\u2014(a) must provide for \u2026 (ii) restrictions relating to the species of fish that an authorised person may target, which must be all or any of the following species only:\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003EWhen I use the word \u201Cmust\u201D, that is a change from the word \u201Cmay\u201D that is there. It wasn\u2019t to say that an authorised person must target, which would imply that you\u2019re targeting all three, and I accept that that was what the Minister said. What my amendment would do would state it must be all or any of the following species only, because my question to the Minister was whether it could be read more broadly, and if he doesn\u2019t want to support my amendment now that I\u2019ve just clarified which word I wanted to actually change\u2014because I recognise the word was referenced twice in the particular clause. If not, can he make sure it\u2019s very clear on the Hansard in case it were to come up in the courts, that it would only be kahawai, grey mullet, and trevally that are able to be targeted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003EI just wanted to clarify that when the Minister responded to my suggested amendment, I think he probably hadn\u2019t actually seen the written amendment that I\u2019d proposed in context, so I just wanted to give him that opportunity to respond. Thank you, Mr Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022 data-id=\u00226ec5d3fe6ff44d84976b05f55481397a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ec5d3fe6ff44d84976b05f55481397a\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Just a short call from me to clarify two points. One was that I still haven\u2019t got an answer around the Ministers, both the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries and the Minister of Conservation, being involved\u2014number one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EThe second one is that, I think, in one of the Minister\u2019s answers he was responding to my question about the iwi leaders, the kaitiaki, who he\u2019s referenced in an earlier part of the debate. He said, \u201CThey don\u2019t want restrictions.\u201D\u2014is what he said generally. My question actually is a specific one, and that is: the people that he named, those kaitiaki, the iwi leaders, do they agree with all of these amendments that he has made? My question is, then: has he asked them specifically if they agree with these amendments or is he making an assumption that, with his many years\u2019 involvement with this part of the country, they will be happy with his amendments around the biodiversity objectives? It\u2019s a very simple question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022 data-id=\u0022316b5ef54fc54789a37db4f376322bc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022316b5ef54fc54789a37db4f376322bc1\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E In response to various questions: a hierarchy of the two aspects that the review needs to address\u2014there is no hierarchy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EIn response to what changes might be made, I think I mentioned it, but there might be only one\u2014or stricter conditions like only one fish being targeted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003EIn response to the question around iwi leaders, certainly the iwi leaders want to see a tripling of the marine protection in the Hauraki Gulf. They do not want regulators and legislators to be coming in over the top, hot as anything, to say, \u201CThis is what you must do to enable biodiversity.\u201D Hence why I\u2019ve mentioned four times now that the customary fishing arrangements will remain within the Fisheries Act and not be inundated with further bureaucratic and statutory noise. We\u2019re here to triple the marine protection in the Hauraki Gulf, te p\u0101taka kai a T\u012Bkapa Moana, Te Moana-nui-a-Toi-te-huatahi, te wahine a Huiarangi [the food basket of the Hauraki Gulf, the Bay of Plenty, the matriarch Huirangi]. That\u2019s what we\u2019re here to do, and I look forward to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee0856697c0c4ab69b57278667f66ede\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee0856697c0c4ab69b57278667f66ede\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227af6b05bed6046f69d4a9558fbcd689e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d11ded014c074cb2995a8bab7a148be7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d11ded014c074cb2995a8bab7a148be7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to Amendment Paper 260, amending clause 30, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d92210d2691743f18ab0033fa9df2c5d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u002286d0ee79f7a94eddaa46866f50fa1039\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286d0ee79f7a94eddaa46866f50fa1039\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to Amendment Paper 260, amending paragraph (c) in clause 32, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c6fd51fbf0a94049a5133b53d678dcdd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022eef0bcde62944161a9e1dc0c6f7c4a50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eef0bcde62944161a9e1dc0c6f7c4a50\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to Amendment Paper 260, replacing \u201Cexcept\u201D with \u201Cincluding\u201D in paragraph (b) of clause 66(1), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022445986de10d74e26be489b8b562def12\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022737ba461f6d1434e99a08d3593397598\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022737ba461f6d1434e99a08d3593397598\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to Amendment Paper 260, inserting new paragraph (a) in clause 66(2), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228cc15ffff4dc4aeaa03b0f23b9de1983\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u002240fb67eae68c4a9d988426c96a68eb0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240fb67eae68c4a9d988426c96a68eb0d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to Amendment Paper 260, inserting new subparagraph (iii) in clause 66(2)(b), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c6c88bbfe57946279ecfeeb7b07b9d6d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u00220fb16d1219d0482ab5752edb86775e08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220fb16d1219d0482ab5752edb86775e08\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to Amendment Paper 260, deleting the amendment to replace clause 67, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022833094a32e7940b287660544d3a9cd89\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c27efa27c6974aa38674f3128a6aa2a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c27efa27c6974aa38674f3128a6aa2a9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Rachel Boyack\u2019s tabled amendment to Amendment Paper 260, replacing \u201Cwhich may be all or any\u201D with \u201Cwhich must be all or any\u201D in proposed subparagraph (ii) in clause 67(2)(a), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002222c69ab236874b1c936df7476d256099\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u00223bee6006b48940848ce4bc40ba991b6a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bee6006b48940848ce4bc40ba991b6a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u2019s tabled amendment to Amendment Paper 260, replacing \u201C3 years\u201D with \u201C1 year\u201D in subclause (2) of proposed new clause 68A, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223a28cff11ee34924a0f2df1c40d93804\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u00220c1435463c784af89c686ba33a2ae1ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c1435463c784af89c686ba33a2ae1ad\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s tabled amendment to Amendment Paper 260, amending subclause (2) of proposed new clause 68A, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c864448cfb1e409cb9ec94550706aa4a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6bd04d9095348629bac282e99dda54c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6bd04d9095348629bac282e99dda54c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s tabled amendment to Amendment Paper 260, amending subclause (3) of proposed new clause 68A, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022139f59c3659741a9939cdea5800bc440\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9e7a6d8c7784dc8a44b50e5b1d9790e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9e7a6d8c7784dc8a44b50e5b1d9790e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to Amendment Paper 260, amending subclause (5) in proposed new clause 68A, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002237446f4f8e794f21af1ccb6cb2a2813d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022601384feadd7425e854e47ac3621a795\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022601384feadd7425e854e47ac3621a795\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to Amendment Paper 260, amending paragraph (b) in proposed new clause 68B(2), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220dfb6a13dcee4232b598b372668e9ae3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAgreement not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022f037d406cd87486489c40da255c570ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f037d406cd87486489c40da255c570ab\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Marama Davidson\u2019s tabled amendment to Amendment Paper 260 deleting proposed new clauses 67, 68A, and 68B is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Part 3 set out on Amendment Paper No 260 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229980e79748244cdcb9d2ecf648811d81\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022064766929ead4271938bc38ac7fecb1a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022064766929ead4271938bc38ac7fecb1a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendment to Part 3 set out on Amendment Paper 349 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022471b8bbe614943c49af6602b353dd37a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u00221d74a9d0fc954f519df82089c05b39d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d74a9d0fc954f519df82089c05b39d3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 28(1) and paragraph (d) in clause 29 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229228ed2a34d748cc9a418217eb1a941e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000391\u0022\u003EPart 3 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002290a921c7e8d9477bba90ece8feec973c\u0022\u003ESchedule 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000393\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002272f8e6d78674473bbd8c384f7165e3f0\u0022\u003ESchedule 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u002240afe7f817fd47d0931ed723e488d309\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240afe7f817fd47d0931ed723e488d309\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 261 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fb6d9da079474ef4ac5b6565533558e9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11;New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 20\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000396\u0022\u003ESchedule 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002246b47f4f72214375a67a8e789092d32a\u0022\u003ESchedule 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a70d0d3f4ca9456d8c5e5b1721db4430\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a70d0d3f4ca9456d8c5e5b1721db4430\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendment to Schedule 3 set out on Amendment Paper 261 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b29edbf24b984a1ba66428835aa961ce\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11;New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 20\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000399\u0022\u003ESchedule 3 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229e2ab11588304141951dad15d3e804a2\u0022\u003ESchedule 4\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf2338fffdf64a86899ab63cd96b9fd8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf2338fffdf64a86899ab63cd96b9fd8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendment to Schedule 4 set out on Amendment Paper 261 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221f2fa543cebb49acab05bb86b21b140b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11;New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 20\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000402\u0022\u003ESchedule 4 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002214c0346ef2294cd08d20cb56bb9654ae\u0022\u003ESchedule 5\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022169d5a7929dc4b27ab911cb2803d6c9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022169d5a7929dc4b27ab911cb2803d6c9a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendment to Schedule 5 set out on Amendment Paper 349 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ad69f5849f2d412fb3c893d55989d7f9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11;New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 20\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000405\u0022\u003ESchedule 5 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f79e2fb7c7ba454f949d7466e4d7f0d5\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u00223a9206a2ce1e4c9c904a66eb3942a0a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a9206a2ce1e4c9c904a66eb3942a0a6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to our final debate. This is the debate on clauses 1 and 2, \u201CTitle\u201D and \u201CCommencement\u201D, and the principal Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022 data-id=\u00222f232f4d078a4db38a26b65d4a886e2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f232f4d078a4db38a26b65d4a886e2f\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. The title of this bill has been a long time coming\u2014we\u2019ve traversed this quite a bit on this side of the Chamber. It has been over a decade in the making with a number of stakeholders at various levels. Local and central government, iwi, hap\u016B and wh\u0101nau, conservationists, the fishing industry have all come together over a long period of time, and this is one part of what was agreed to, but the sea-change process has led to this bill, the Hauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana Marine Protection Bill, as it claims to be and as it was prior to the eleventh hour amendments that this Minister has brought to the House and that we have debated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003EAll this Government has done is delay the passage of this bill, one that they said they were going to accelerate prior to the last election. All they\u2019ve done is delay it over the last two years. They have weakened it as a result of those eleventh hour amendments. We have drilled into the rationale, the evidence, and the justification for weakening protections within supposed high protection areas that are meant to enhance the biodiversity objectives in a gulf that is degrading. The Minister in the chair has been unable to respond to those questions and provide any sort of justification that would give those of us on this side of the Chamber or, indeed, outside of this building any comfort that it was actually justified, the weakening of protections that were laid out in a bill was worked on and then considered in detail by the Environment Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003EThe recommendation to this committee was to pass the bill with no substantive change. For that to then change in the eleventh hour, we would have thought that there would be some strong justification from the Minister, but we have not seen any of that, so I would argue that the name of this bill is no longer justified. While it does go some way towards, or a significant way still towards, protecting the Hauraki Gulf, all of the protections in the bill that was drafted and introduced by Labour in Government\u2014the only step that this Government has taken is to weaken it. What they\u2019ve done is to put the fishing lobby interests before marine protections, and that\u2019s down to the conservation Minister in the Chamber along with the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries. All they\u2019ve done is pander to the interests of the fishing lobby. All they\u2019ve done is take us backwards on marine protections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022478d3cb5987f4310bb49fd0f94687827\u0022\u003EI would argue that the name of this bill should be changed to the \u201CHauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana Weakens Marine Protection Bill\u201D. While, in our entirety, we are supporting this bill because it goes some way to protecting the Gulf based on the changes that we brought in and based on the work that many have done over the years, this Government cannot take credit for that, because the only contribution that they\u2019ve made to this is to delay the passage and weaken the intent of this bill. It could be the \u201CHauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana Puts Fishing Lobby Interests Ahead of Marine Protections Bill\u201D. I would probably accept that as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u00223cdffd23ac034402ab6ae3fc851bf3c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223cdffd23ac034402ab6ae3fc851bf3c7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry to the speaker. I\u2019ll have to now report progress at this time. The member will have the opportunity to resume her speech when this bill is considered next. Time has come for me to report progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003EProgress to be reported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b25073140024432e866170b740877dfa\u0022 data-id=\u0022b141691bac2d410180987e1dbef8a53a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b25073140024432e866170b740877dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b141691bac2d410180987e1dbef8a53a\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Chair. I seek leave to correct the vote on amendment 260.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4f68bf7ca7244efaa08bff016a82bc2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. There\u2019s no objection. You may correct that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b25073140024432e866170b740877dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b176d55bf6e04be3a9c4db1d78c7d307\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thirty-four votes were cast in favour, and they should have been cast opposed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213b5ce796b054f0e832c4044a5b3cab6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Do we know what we\u2019re talking about here? Let\u2019s make sure that we\u2019ve got the right amendment. This is that the Minister\u2019s amendment to Part 3 set out on Amendment Paper 260 be agreed to. The result should have been\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b25073140024432e866170b740877dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce83aeb91dc444589765dd50ab37d0b2\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN\u003C/span\u003E: No. Thirty-four votes opposed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224011b3a225341219521bbf88610dc37\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: That will be amended accordingly. Actually, I did note that it is already recorded as opposed\u201468 for and 54 against.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b25073140024432e866170b740877dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298e38edb1b8849449b00b2d5e7bb2f32\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re all good then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f900dc1a62374fe1804375f1a540c962\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Belt and braces perhaps.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022827881524c8548d981774bbfc239dbc7\u0022\u003EReport of Committee of the Whole House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cb60b3e379d048d4b3d15e3255b3d83f\u0022\u003EReport of Committee of the Whole House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u00229219c88e809049d9a6d0de925d5dd7b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229219c88e809049d9a6d0de925d5dd7b7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, the committee has considered the Public Works (Critical Infrastructure) Amendment Bill and reports it with amendment. The committee has also furthered considered the Hauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana Marine Protection Bill and reports that it has made progress on the bill. The committee has also considered the Crimes Legislation (Stalking and Harassment) Amendment Bill and reports it has made no progress on that bill. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c388143eab8145a0960888cefe9f13cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c388143eab8145a0960888cefe9f13cd\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202508198495127101bb4d00b1695cb1e89fed2e000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 12.58 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"